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Nonprofit Radio for May 17, 2019: Nobody Reads Your PDFs & Map Your Data

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Genie Gratto, Meghan Hess & Nathan Gasser: Nobody Reads Your PDFs
Formatting your reports and research in PDF may bore your audiences to where they refuse to read your stuff. Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference helps you assess what’s best for your nonprofit’s content, including interactive formats. They’re Genie Gratto at GWRITES; Meghan Hess from Campaign Legal Center; and Nathan Gasser with Report Kitchen.





Salim Sawaya: Map Your Data
Salim Sawaya shares ways to visualize your outcomes data on maps, which can revolutionize how you think about and deliver services. He has free and low cost mapping tools. He’s from Esri.





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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into Erato carrot itis if I saw that you missed today’s show. Nobody reads your pdf ce formatting. Your reports and research in pdf May bore your audience is toe where they refused to read your stuff. Our panel from the non-profit Technology Conference helps you assess what’s best for your non-profits content, including interactive formats there. Jeannie Grotto at G, writes Meghan Hess from Campaign Legal Centre and Nathan Goss er with report kitchen. Then map your data. Salim Sawara shares ways to visualize your outcomes, Matt Data on maps, which can revolutionize how you think about and deliver services. He has free and low cost mapping tools. He’s from Isra on Tony’s Take to the Nukes, Responsive by pursuant full service. Fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuing by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy Text NPR to four four four nine nine nine Here’s nobody reads your pdf ce from the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. That’s the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. We are in the convention center in Portland, Oregon, and this interview, like all our nineteen ntcdinosaur views, is brought to you by our partners. ActBlue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact with me Now our Genie Grotto, Meghan Hess and Nathan Gosar. Jeannie See? The closest to me is communications consultant at G writes. Megan has his digital manager at Campaign Legal Centre, and Nathan is president and executive chef at Report Kitchen. Jeannie. Meghan Nathan. Welcome. Thank you. Radio pleasure. Your topic is, uh, it’s a good one. Interesting. Nobody’s reading your pdf ce published audience friendly research and reports. Um, let’s start down the end there, Nathan. This is, uh, this is a trouble area. We’re going through a lot of time and expense to produce surveys, reports, research, and nobody’s reading it. Yeah, sex. Exactly. Right. Way being this interest in this topic up for being working with agencies and organizations and foundations for years. And exactly we said they will produce in some cases, spend two, three years and spend multi millions of dollars in research. And you’re determining. Actually, there was an article published. What if the title was? What if the solution to all our problems was locked in a piela? Somebody was reading, and it’s sort of the point Is that like, it’s not just like, oh, no one’s reading my work It’s no one’s reading work that could potentially, you know, changed the world. And it’s really bringing that up impact to this work that we’re we’re trying to address. Okay, uh, now it was This was originally titled When I first read it. Nobody’s downloading your pfc published research and reports people actually read What was the metamorphosis to nobody’s reading your pdf, but was too technical downloading or what? Uh, Meghan, can you share Will shed a light on this. It was mostly that the NTC folks, we’re helping us to edit for tea to bring more people into Russian. They head thoughts on the wording. Okay. Something provocative. No, but they were the same idea. As you know. If people are downloading it, they aren’t reading it on DH. That’s really what it is. Just about getting eyes on stuff Okay. Um, so let’s is there a problem? Let’s start. Jeanie is there? Is there a problem with the pdf format? Inherently? Oh, absolutely not. I mean, I think the pdf serves a really important purpose and and offers a way to present some of this material in a consolidated way that people can have. The issue is really thinking about audience and really thinking about why people are trying to put the information out there and making sure that those audience members are able to access exactly what they need to do the change in the world that an organization would hope they would dio. And so so, yeah, so it’s It’s not saying, Let’s not do PdF So it’s really all about let’s think about the content and think about the way that content is being delivered and make sure that it’s reaching the folks that we wanted to reach. Okay, so maybe pdf is not the best format to convey your your world saving research is that it could be. But there could also be other audiences that might need a shorter, more snack, oppcoll way of looking at some of the content, or you might be trying to create, you know, move people to action in a particular way, and they’re not necessarily going to move toe action through, you know, reading a fifty five page report. So So if you all identified different constituencies are different personas that consume data in a different way. Yeah. So? So in the session, I was presenting a few different examples that we’ve had at my organization Can be legal center on DH. The first step of when you’re gonna put research and information out to the world should really be Who is this information for and who do we want to consume it? And what do we want them to? Tokyo. So, like, free states, journalist is going to consume information. I want information very different format than a social science researcher. Sure. So So Yet putting this research out there Do we want a journalist to pick up on something? In which case we might want to pull out the three fax that we think are the most scintillating fax that a journalist might want to talk about? And do we want to put that out there in some way that’s more eye catching than buried. Fifty pages into your pdf and maybe it’LL supplement the pdf so that they can then go deeper or contact your issue expert. Or maybe you have a constituency you’re trying to reach. That’s not going to open a pdf at all and this vital information for them. For instance, we I have put together a bunch of information for returning citizens who want to know about their rights to vote. So people with felony histories and the laws are different in fifty states. For how Who is able to vote under what circumstances? And if you are looking for your particular state and your particular circumstance, you’re not going to read that information in the pdf. So how do we get that information in front of the exact right person? Okay, dahna. So, Nathan, so is our our first. I gotta wrap my right mind around this because you guys ever think about this. You all pardon me? Not you guys. You all have been thinking about this for a long time, and, uh, well, I looked at it for the first time a couple weeks ago, and I have not been thinking about it solid for the for the for the all those weeks. Uh, and my hearing Is this what we start with? What’s the purpose of the research and and who we want to have consuming? Exactly. It’s actually the way we began. So what’s our goal? Why do we have this when we have this report to begin with? Exactly. You just summarize. Probably the first five minutes. Ten minutes of talk, which was Okay, Good. I’m glad the first five minutes, not the last one, you know, is perfect. And that’s how you started. You know, the point is not what technology tools do we have available? The point is, who’s the audio snusz and who were trying to reach. And then once we reach them, what do we want him to do? What actually wanted to take Weare talking with someone after the session? About about measuring impact? You don’t measure impact with how many tweets we get. How many page using we have. How many people looked at it. We measure impact with how many laws were changed. How many people were able to vote who run before, how maney, You know, real impact in the world. And that’s the kind of thing that we’re trying. You have to start with to say what we’re trying to take. What actions do we want? These audiences, once we’ve identified them to take and what tools are they gonna need? And we take that action, you have to start at that level before you know it can really look at all the different mirriam technical tiles decided I would be most appropriate. Help us identify some of the potential audience is that we might be producing content for yes. So you said you mentioned a bit ago social science researchers, and that’s actually a great point. There are, uh, there are cases where where you know, the entire audience of, ah, body of research is other researchers now in its And the point is just to see the next step of research. And in that case, you’re going toe, you know, trust that someone’s going to sit and read through a you know, one hundred page pdf. That’s OK. They are motivated to do that. That’s not the case for you, for everyone, for most of them, in-kind of organizations that you would expect to see it in ten. They’re not necessarily right. You’ve speaking to social signs researchers. They’re probably going, you know, often one step more towards the general audience with that with other organisations. And, you know, so you want to look at our someone would be motivated to read through, you know, several page three or four page instead of two hundred, you know, Is it someone who’s going to be motivated to interact with Cem Cem data or download the data themselves and, you know, work with it that way, If someone has wants to see the information on a map and they want to zoom into their county that there’s countless examples of, you know, Megan mentioned one where oppcoll you really only care hyre about, you know, one fiftieth of her data, right? It’s the state that you live, you know. So the ability to cut away the stuff you’re not interested in is, you know, is huge. And that’s almost not possible with video because you’ve got page after page after page after page of on There’s no, you know, sort of got cutting away that that’s something like a basic Web page with a little bit of interactivity can bring. It’s time for a break Pursuant the art of First Impressions had a combined strategy, analytics and Creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. That’s very book on donor acquisition you get at the listener landing page because you want to make a smashing first impression on your potential donors. That listener landing page Tony dahna may slash pursuant capital P for please. Of course, this is a live listener loving the pasta’s pleasantries the plod classed Oh my God, the iconoclast plod class for first love The love goes out to the live listeners. Thank you for being with us. I’m glad you’re with us today. On this day that you’re listening live that I’m not in the studio alive but you’re alive. So the love goes to you and the plot class Pleasantries poured Class provoc room. I’m so glad that over thirteen thousand of with you of with you are listening on the plot classed that you’re iconoclasts If you’re If you’re on the plot class, you’re an iconoclast and the pleasantries and present trees go out to you. Thanks, Thanks for being with us Applied Class listeners. Now let’s go back. Teo, Jeannie Grotto, Megan Hesse and Nathan Goss er with nobody reads your pdf ce Jeannie. What are some other potential formats besides the written report? Well, I mean, I think one of the things that is such a huge trend right now, rightfully so in all communications and storytelling. And that’s a really big deal. And so a lot of researchers air turning two interviews and trying to tell stories through that research. And those stories can be extracted and they can be either extracted as video clips. They can be extracted, as you know, kind of, you know, even explainer videos, you know, with, like a little bit of animation, things like that. There are many ways of expressing those stories, and you know, if those stories can be great and they can be really impactful, and they can move people to be ready to make change. But if people can’t get to them, then they’re not going to make that change. And sometimes, you know, you might have a document or a report that has, you know, multiple audiences. For example, you might have one that you have to turn into your funder, and your funder is very interested in what happened over the course of the body of research. But you also might want tohave, for example. Policy makers perhaps make a policy, you know? So, for example, say you were doing a report about safe streets and you wanted local policy makers to be able to read it and read the stories that are in it and really, you know, start implementing different policy than exists in a current community. We know that one of the ways people move is through stories and that you know that tugging at their heart and sort of getting to their emotions is going Teo going to be in some ways more effective than just data and the data is important than the data backs up those stories. But being able to sort of isolate those stories Teo get people emotionally involved will help organisations make that change a little easier in a little faster. Okay, that’s related to what do you want people to do with Derek Lee? Is this a donation or is this more research? Right. It’s just, uh, awareness by a funder from four hundred. Exactly. Okay, Um, see, Megan, where what else can we talk about around this topic and sort of like before we go to the workflows, you have weight. You have method of strategies around workflows getting content from researchers into something. Get interactive format. But is there more we can we can touch on before we get to the workflows portion? I think the thing that’LL add is ahead, like three or four people come up after the session to say, How do I convince my colleagues that this is worthwhile by, um, I I think that our organization serves particularly good example of this because my colleagues are mostly attorneys and policy experts on the information that they consume is from pdf. So you know they are looking at stuff that’s out there, either. It’s government data that they’ve downloaded in a pdf form, and they’re analyzing it. Or it’s research that’s put out by colleagues and other organizations. And it’s a report, and it’s a Pdf Download it, like other social scientists were talking about. They are the audience for BTS for many times, and so Teo convince them that maybe our output we should consider other avenues for Supplementary Avenue is something that’s a struggle for a lot of a lot of folks, and I think with tip is that you don’t have to go all or nothing. You can put the information out there as the pdf, but then you can extract the information that you want to get in front of the right eyes and supplement with that. And so that’s one way to convince them that, you know, this could be something that doesn’t take away from the work that you want to put out there and only adds defected Supplementary and we’re repurpose ing And think of the energy we’re saving from having to create new content when we can produce this in a different format for lots of different audiences. Sure. And then, of course, you know, if it’s not appropriate to be putting out that pdf based on who you’re trying to reach and that’s just going to be in a wasted effort, then you know you need to talk them through the same thing. If thatyou thought process that you’ve gone through if like who is this information really for, and how are we going to get in front of them? Follow-up. I mean, I also think it’s really this is a place where metrics are really helpful And so, you know, being able to say, Okay, here’s the pdf And now, you know, maybe taking one little bit of the report and kind of creating one small interactive piece around it and sharing that and then being able to say, Okay, here’s here. The statistics around that particular piece say it’s a video. Here’s how many shares that’s gotten here, the platforms where it’s been shared on DH and really being able to serve, set that against the download. And then if you can take that interactive piece and track not just that it was shared. But then, if you can get beyond that and even figure out what actions were coming out of that, that you can help make the case along the way that these incremental steps are really useful. And then the more you’re able to make that case, the easier it is the next time around. Oh, for sure. Yeah, Break, break the barrier. That Okay, I’m glad I’m I’m glad you brought up buy-in back-up because that’s its critical and could be. You know, if you’re if you’re the sole advocate of something different, you’re you’re fighting it uphill battle. You need allies and the hyre up they are the better or the board, at least at least in number. Maybe maybe you don’t have the higher up. But if you have numbers among your peers, you know, then you can start to make the case. Okay. Okay. So, Nathan, let let’s let’s talk some about these workflows that I’m not sure I understand completely, but you’re gonna help me andare Listeners understand workflows forgetting content from researchers and authors into interactive web format. Yeah, So does this mean So it’s it’s important to look at where, you know, along with the buy-in question is, you know, what can we what steps come we implement that are going to be, you know, achievable. And if you’re asking people to radically change what they’re doing, it’s going to be a harder sell. And so if you could look at, say, Windows, a researcher gathered their data and work with it. And, for example, if a researcher gathers their data and produces a little chart in Excel or something like that, and then sends that on to the editor, you’ve lost the ability to do something interesting with the rest of the data in interactive with data because the researcher has not passed on all of that data. They sort of sliced it away and left it in excel and simple little tools like that. So the question of, you know, win in the process do we need to get involved into say, Look, we’re going to save you time. We’re gonna ask you not to make these graphs anymore and excel. And we’re gonna ask you to just turn the data, overdo it, you know, put them right into a tool that allow you to let the visitor to the website You interact with the data on their own things like that. Then you’ve got the data in a way that you can, you know that you can work with it without having Teo oppcoll towards. You know, if you similarly, if you have on article or the even the body, the text body of the work go right to a designer who’s going to produce a very sort of fancy and attractive but hard to work with, you know, production file or publication file, there’s gonna be really hard to get that back onto the web in a way that was Jean you mentioned, you know, be like skimmed and snapped and sliced in two smaller doses, You’re gonna have this big chunk of, you know fifty pages. That’s really hard to work with. So that’s the sort of workflows thing where we’re trying to say, If you try to go in and say everyone, stop what you’re doing and do it a completely different way, it’s gonna be a really hard sell it in, Say, here’s at this point instead of just throwing this file away, just copied over to this other department and they’LL let them work with that. And then you can keep doing what you’re doing That’s making was saying, You know, you don’t you know, You don’t say stop cubine completely, but you want to say Let’s try to get into the spots in the workflow that we need to pull the pieces that we need to show really the advantage of of giving somebody you know, certain more direct access to this data. D’Oh any of you have recommendations for tools that are available? Teo, help the public, uh, sort through data. Are there such tools? Another are What are they? Yes. Oh, we know. Among us. Yeah. So there’s no way we’re actually talking with someone who wanted to do basically an interactive charter graphic. So, in any case, she had some kind of of the life cycle of, ah, of an ecosystem that, you know, it was a very complicated graphic, and it it worked well in pdf. But you only because you could zoom into, like, five thousand times and see these tiny little you know, words. Um, so you know, there’s a tool, for example, called info Graham, that allows you to create that kind of interactive graphics in-kind zoom in and zoom out and just present that in, you know, kind of a one one step things that you know that works nicely for interactive graphic way of sharing info Graham and focus. Graham. Yeah. Phone in program. Okay, way Haven’t one of the things in in full disclosure. I represent a company that produces a product called Report Kitchen that does the exact same thing that we’re talking about, which is take a document that starts is a pdf and take it all the way back to having all the texts and the graphics and everything extracted and produce a Web page you could work with on add interactive video or, you know, visualizations and things like that to it. So that’s Ah, that’s another option. If you want to have sort of retain all of the information because in many cases, you know, it’s easy to say, Well, you throw away the stuff people don’t want. Well, in some cases, people want a lot of it. So, you know, being able to convert it all and have an easy step is something that we’ve put a lot of energy into this this report kitchen product that we work with. I would still have a good amount of time together. Another five, six minutes or so. What? Uh, what else did you tell your audience? That you’re not sharing with non-profit radio listeners? Sametz Amy, you lower our speaker are piela. Please get a little feedback. What about what else is there? So one thing that we did in our session was way actually distributed worksheet through the room to help people start thinking through the reports that they’re working with and what they can do with it now, like this is something that you can put in place. No matter what the status of the report Is it something that’s already been published? It’s out. There is a pdf. Let’s go back to it. Pull out the most interesting fax and make a chart about it or make it, you know, easy infographic that could accompany the report online and put that information front and center in front of people. Or maybe there’s a report that still in the brainstorming stage where you can like Nate was saying, Insert yourself into the process now early on and say, Hey, I think we could do something different with this this time s So we were trying to bring it home for people that you know, we’re putting all these in for these examples in front of you of waves that we’ve done this in the past from simple to complicated. But this is something that you can take from this conference back and do right away. This is something that you can start implementing, no matter where they you know who you’re working with. What stage of the reports that you’re working with is This is something that you can do and take away from the conference and and feel like you accomplish something having come all the way out here to go to Portland, Was this a hand out O r re sources or an online resource we can share? There is. Yeah, there’s a pdf. The thing of all the ways already a pdf has its place. It does. And yes. So we’re planning Teo, share the link to that. That worksheet is part of our community notes for that session. Okay, so where where people go for the community notes. How does that work There is? Yeah. You go on the antenna app every every session and on the site. If there is a link to the community notes and a cz wella sze to some additional resource is I believe so. Yeah. Dahna all their dahna cider on the Appia. You don’t have to remember the girl. Okay, Okay. Very good. Uh, so we still have some time together. What else? What else? Uh, don’t hold out on non-profit radio listeners. What else did you talk about? You know, the other thing that that I would say this was another question that came up kind of after the session, but there were some questions about it along the way obliquely, but really one of the things that I think non-profit folks tend to fall down a little bit on, mostly because everybody is stretched for time and resource is. And all of that is really thinking through the audience and going out and doing even the very most basic user and audience research. And so you know, one of the suggestions that I have, I think that can be really helpful is just finding a couple of the key people in the audience is that you’re looking at. So you know, whoever you’re trying to target, going out and just asking them some questions about how do they consume information? Where do they consume their information? You know, it doesn’t have to be a really intense, kind of persona building process or a really intense German process. But normal folk and formal focus group kind of questions are really helpful on doing that. You know, kind of with your audience is either the people you serve, the people that give you money, you know, whoever it may be policy. Ah, policymaker, Policymakers, staff member, You know, somebody like that. Just getting them on the phone and ask them some questions is one of the things I think that particularly non-profit calms and non-profit tech people often here is somebody will come to them and say Nobody can blank so nobody can find anything on the Web site. Nobody’s reading this report. Nobody is, you know, and usually that’s often based on some anecdotal Um, and that’s fine. That’s pretty much human nature, you know, people sort of extrapolating from the thing. So my thing is, you know, you can also use that in reverse, go out and get your own and dahna data and have that available to help make the case and to get that buy-in. And I think that’s really important and can be a first step even for a non-profit that doesn’t have the budget for user research on DH. It can be something that just doesn’t take a time of time. So it could be easy to dio. Okay. Okay. Anything else you wanna share? Way got sometime. If anybody wants to add, what else did you do this seventy five minute session. So I know there’s more we’ve only been at We’ve only been talking for about twenty four minutes, so uh, yeah. Much follow-up with you said. I think it’s really important to listen. And I think there’s a lot of a lot of folks that you do the same thing they’ve been doing kind of over and over. Or or that they see other people doing you say white. And this, well, this organisation does. This one’s age doesn’t This one’s a bit of it. It doesn’t mean that that’s the right way, you know, just because a lot of people are doing it or a lot of organizations doing it doesn’t make it right, right? Yeah. And so make it popular. So listening to people and finding out, you know, again not just listening to the complaints. Because if all you do is listen to complaints going, get steered, you know, in circles and circles and circles. But it but going out and just, you know, proactively finding out. Does this make you put a little bit of effort and say, Does this graphic make sense to you? Can you Can you find what you want out of this? Does this piece of text makes sense to you? Does this video make sense to you? Like you know what which he’s going to motivate you, which is going to give you the resource is that you need to take the action that we wanted to take. You know, just again. Like you said simple audience research as it was a lot better than just kind of listening to your You listen to the same voices he always hear Meg and I’m going to give you the wrap up. Got about thirty seconds. Motivation. Positive. Positive conclusion. I’ll just say again that this is something that anybody who works in communications or marketing or fund-raising for any organization can do no matter you know how. How stubborn a ship you’re trying to turn you, Khun, make small, incremental changes that will put the you know, this information in a more accessible format than Petey Jeff. And maybe you’re not going to be doing a big Web, native mobile friendly website instead of the report to begin with. But you, Khun, do small things with little budget and not a lot of time that will make a big difference in how your audience consumes that information by putting that forethought in before you actually just throw the pdf on the website. This is something anyone could do. All right. Thank you very much. They are Jeannie Grotto communications consultant under G writes Meghan has digital manager at Campaign Legal Center on Nathan Gaza President and Executive chef at Report Kitchen. Thanks to each of you. Thank you, Tony. Thanks for having pleasure. My pleasure on thank you for being with our coverage of nineteen. Ninety si the non-profit Technology conference. This interview and all are nineteen ninety si interviews brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits Macon Impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break when you see piela is their accountants, for God’s sake, You know what they do? The account that everybody knows that sexy PPI is like being a dentist. Everybody knows what what it’s all about. Do you need one? You need help with your form. Nine ninety is the time to change Audit firms get that fresh look. Perhaps they’ve got a deep practice for non-profits. They’re growing it. They want to grow up more. And you know what? Insider in the firm help them grow. Why? You may ask why? Because they’re sponsoring non-profit radio. You have to ask, You know the insider partner, He’s the partner yet Hooch Tomb has been on the show. Give him a ring. Check them out. Wagner cps dot com Now time for Tony Steak, too. Same videos last week because I’m away. So in the airforce during the Reagan years, I was a missile combat crew commander. First, I was a deputy missile combat crew commander, which would be a d m C C C. Then I was an M C C C missile combat crew commander. Of course, the U S A. F has its a c r o N Y m s, um, and as a d m triple C and then a m triple C. I worked in l double sees launch control centers, many of them spread throughout western Missouri. There were in other states as well. Uh, North and South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, and I think Kansas so much sure about that. But in our years, definitely those other states I named and what do we all do? Their we controlled nuclear missiles. You have direct control over ten missiles, but you got auxiliary control over another forty. So if your friends and the other capsules get wiped out. You can take over their missiles on. How do you do all this? You do it from the l double. See the launch control center, which is in which is down below on the LCF launch control facility. And it’s next to the L C E B Launch control Equipment Building. You can see all this on my video. It’s a video tour of the launch control Center. Actually, the tourist just the downstairs launch control center and adjacent next to it the L C E B launch control equipment building. Take a tour with me. Ah, the video tour is at twenty martignetti dot com and that is Tony’s. Take two. Now here’s map Your data from the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen NTC. We’re kicking off our day to coverage of the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. We’re at the convention center in Portland, Oregon, and my guest now is Salim Sawara. He’s manager of S Orry. Welcome, Salim. Thank you very much. Nice to meet you. Pleasure to have you. Thanks for kicking off our day to coverage. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Your topic is putting your data on the map techniques and tools for impact. So we’re talking about visualising data, the outcomes data or just visualizing any data geographic, many different kinds of data, any kind of data that has location involved, whether it’s related to where the people are, the places that were trying to serve, if an assist, Where are we working, where partners measure me, measurements of impact and outcomes and ultimately different ways to visualize data to engage people communicate, you know, engage with our community. OK, could be fund-raising Data also could be donorsearch donorsearch members, volunteers indicators that would help us to identify where we would find more of the people that were working with that. We’re getting donations from that air, volunteering for us, etcetera. All right, As you can hear, the crowd is approving of your of this topic and he’LL take it. I’ll tell you what’s in the background is we have the main where the main stages maybe a hundred feet away or so on DH. There’s there are ignite session’s going on where people are doing five minute quick, quick topics on and the crowd is approving of that as well, as well as what Salim has to offer. Congratulations. Um and Oh, and I neglected to say thie outset that this interview, like all our nineteen ntcdinosaur views, is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue free fund-raising Tools for non-profits. Teo, help them make an impact. Of course, we’ve got our ActBlue swag. I’m don ing it, etcetera. So thank you for that indulgence. Gotta take care of our premiere sponsor and they’re right next door. So if you’re not at nineteen NTC, come check him out after afterwards. ActBlue. Um okay, so we, uh I hear a lot that we’re overloaded with data. There’s there’s so much available. It’s hard to sort out what’s important. So I certainly resonate with the topic. Resonates with me trying to visualize it in you in your cell, in your session topic you say you’re people can revolutionize the way they deliver service asses by by visualizing their data. That’s a revolution. That’s ah, that’s a strong claim. Revolution. Not just not going to be an evolution. How do we revolutionize and has this relate Teo delivering services? Yeah, well, I mean, today we’re dealing with super complex problems, right? That deal with lots of different issues, many of them very complex into related. And it’s very hard to get a a full picture of what’s going on, where we’re working, where the people are. We’re trying to serve. In many ways, the power of geography and GS is in allowing us to integrate different kinds of data that otherwise would be very hard. Teo, Understand in one place or in one picture? Yes, yes, is geographic information. We have jargon jail on non-profit radio. No problem. You can keep me. Keep me in check. I will keep you out of Joe. Yeah, but geographic information systems is a technology that leverages the power of location and geography too. Bring data together, integrated and allow people to do different kinds of analysis, visualization. And you know, many different kinds of applications to support their work. What we see in the non-profit community especially, is the use of js helping organizations and how they identify where the place is or the people that were trying to serve or assist. Understand? Where are my resource is? Where is my work today? How how best can I align the resource is that I have with the places that I’m trying to target on DH then you know, using joyous and location data to help them measure the both the outcomes and the impact of their work. Whether that’s by collecting data, surveys of beneficiaries or actually measuring the impact of work that they’re doing or leveraging other kinds of data socioeconomic demographic data as proxies to help measure the impact of the projects and investments that they’re making. Okay, there’s a There’s a lot to unpack there. You’re an expert in data visual legation. I am not sorry you might marry trainable, but happen Alan after now. No, no, no, no, no. I wanted That’s a terrific overview is just a lot to unpack Shine we got. That’s where we got a half an hour. Um, all right, so we have a, uh I’m going to take our listeners of small and midsize non-profits so they all have a c e r N on. Let’s say, maybe they’re even using their their serum data base to help them with their program management. We’ve got a panel on that coming up, so I know that that’s eminently doable. What What do we like? What are the symptoms that were, I guess let’s start with this trouble areas. One of the symptoms that were not managing our data or we’re not getting the getting out of our data. What we need so that then visualisation can help us. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, I think whether you’re talking about donors or members or volunteers or beneficiaries, it’s really hard to get a real clear understanding of what is the make up? What is the distribution? What are the You know, where do these people exist? There are concentrations exam. You can you can you can export from your CR M to an excel she and that’ll give you Ah, I mean, I guess you could do a graph of ah bar graph of the most ten most common zip codes or something exactly. But But that doesn’t tell you as much as I would for sure, seeing seeing that kind of data on a map to allow you to see our all of my people concentrated in one place. Do we have gaps in places where we wouldn’t necessarily expect them to be? Are there are there opportunities in the landscape of where our donors or members or volunteers maybe that we could target and try to fill in gaps that we see and visualizing. Okay, And this certainly applies to local organizations. You could be mapping within a county or state, or you could be mapping the Earth. Absolutely. And that’s I mean, there’s there’s organizations working at all scales, right? So whether they’re at a neighbor murcott level trying to work on the you know their civic association and improving their neighborhood or global organizations who are working on, you know, really large, complex global issues context. The context that location provides really helps. So what kinds of questions might we be asking that way? Don’t feel like we’re getting a decent answer to now. Yeah, so a lot of the and that’s a great way to frame the discussion, because what are the kinds of questions that people ask? That location helps them to understand. One of the big things that we see a lot in the nonprofit world is am I am I getting the resource is to the places that where they’re most needed, right? Am I delivering services to the people who have the most acute need, um, I seizing those kinds of opportunities to have the biggest impact that I can have. Where could I be? Prepositioning resource is in order to make the most accessible to the people that I’m trying to serve. A really simple example. Would be organizations who are looking to build some sort of infrastructure, whether it’s a well or a latrine or a school or a hospital, where the people that need those services are they already being served by existing infrastructure? Or is there some opportunity or need to build some new infrastructure in a place that will reach a population of people that didn’t have access before? So then, what do we need to have so we can start to visualize our data the way, the way you’re encouraging, really, the it it blows down Teo having some element of location that you’re capturing when you’re collecting data on an organizations work, and that could be very precise addresses or coordinate locations where it’s easy to get that kind of information or where it’s being tracked at that level. But it could be just as easily you know, a city state country combination that allows us to Ah, you know, record information at a county level at a state level at a country level, depending what level you’re trying to map. Exactly. So what? The questions are you tryingto task and answer. So knowing that everybody’s in the same county, if you’re in that county and try them out, that county is not gonna be helpful. Exactly is right here in these streets. But what if you’re in a state and and you’re trying to map a state, then county alone could be could be valuable. Exactly. If your foundation trying to decide. Like where the places across the country across the world where our resource is, would have the biggest impact, right? You don’t need to map things down to the address level. You’re not targeting households. You’re targeting broader geography, Sze, where you want to focus your efforts. If you are a community level non-profit you wantto deodorant on its street addresses blocks that you want to focus on this segment of a trail, this segment of a stream, whatever the focus of your work, maybe you want the data that you’re working with to be very granular. Okay, sure. So you need that you need some level of geographic data. Um and then all right, so let’s assume that we have mailing address and we’re a state organization and we want to want to see where our density of service beneficiaries are on. We have there. We have their street address because we are social workers occasionally make home visits etcetera throughout the state. What we do next. So there’s Ah, a number of different processes. But effectively, the process that one would use is called geo coating, where your matching those addresses with a database of addresses and streets. Teo actually put points on the map that are associated with the addresses that may exist in your spreadsheet or your database. So we need this interim step. You can’t go just from the street address to Teo to a mapping tool. That’s what geo coding is, how you go from an address to dahna map. Okay, that’s the process of matching the address with the actual physical location. Okay, and you’ve got some resource is tools. Some geo coding tools that we’re going to talk about exactly are tools that help people do that. There’s a number of them out there that support that work. So it is. It is simple is exporting from your CR m into one of these geo coding tools. If you’ve got to see us via a spreadsheet of data, that has been I know CSB come separated values. Even I know that one. Sorry. Don’t put me in jail. Yeah, if you have a spreadsheet with data that has addresses essentially just uploaded into this geo coding tool, you run the geo coding process and you end up with a shape file, which is Ah, Geospatial data file format that allows you to put data onto a map. Okay, that sounds Aah! That sounds really It’s really straightforward. It’s very common. There’s a number of different tools out there and allow you to do it. But that’s first step, right? Is just getting your data into a form or can actually be visualized in a map in, you know, any number of technologies. Um, And then once you have that, then it’s a matter of what are the other kinds of data that I want Teo Layer with my my information that gives it context. What’s the appropriate basement that I want to use my looking at. Do I want to see? Imagery? Is the backdrop for my data to get context on. What is the landscape that we’re looking at? Do I want a kind of more of a neighborhood street map that gives me a feel of what’s the neighborhood like and what the transit routes? There’s many different kinds of base maps. There’s also lots of other kinds of data and information. Census data, a CS American Community survey data, various kinds of socioeconomic indicators that would give context. Tio, What’s the level of population in a given area? How much income do they have? What are the kind of needs that they might have with regards education, health access, etcetera? And there’s lots of data out there on things even around. Where do people spend their money, right? Are they donated ng to charities and high numbers in this area versus that area? Are they spending time volunteering with different organizations more so in this area than another area? So all of that gives context. Teo your own organization with data, the crowd approves again. Time for our last break text to give you get there. Five party male, Many course by texting NPR to four four, four nine nine nine. That’s the five part course that is going to dispel myths around mobile giving. It does not have to be low dollar. You don’t have to go through phone companies. It’s not expensive to get started. It’s all in the five part email. Many course text. NPR November Papa Romeo to four, four, four, nine nine nine. And we’ve got lots more time now for map your data with Salim Sawara. So So I’m now starting to take even greater shape. I mean, I’m imagining that these other data overlays will impact thie. The way you’re visualize the data so circles or, you know, ever shape maybe large or small colored. They might be different. Different shapes were means everything. So you can bring all these different layers into one one one dimensional map. And a lot of the data is popping out just as you’re looking at different points on the map. Exactly. Okay, okay. Overlaying different kinds of data gives you an understanding of how things relate in a way that you really could never get. If you’re looking at it in a spreadsheet or a report or some sort of narrative form, much richer. Sure. Okay, let’s spend some time talking about the different geo coding tools. So So where do we start? What you have? Recommendations, I hope specific tools and resource is Yeah, I mean, there’s there’s geo coating is one of the kinds of things that people do with JS. There’s tools that allow you to do that in a Web environment. Their desktop mapping tools that support geo coding butt joke owning is one of the one of the processes are analytical. Process is that someone would do with G s. Okay, well, let’s start with Suppose you wanted to do a desktop. You’re gonna keep this simple initially and you want you want it for yourself in your office. You have some tools you can recommend. Yeah. I mean, for the tools that ezri offers. We have a non-profit program where we make our technology available for free to non-profits. There’s small administrative fees and effectively with with every technology. Arc js isra I said s story. It’s OK. You made it sound like I’m a kayman institute or something. All right? And ah, we eso inter desktop software. There’s Ah, there’s Ah, a couple of different utilities or tools that would allow somebody to basically point a geo coding tool at their data set, and it would return a bunch of dots on a map. The same thing could be done in a Web tool that we have called our joyous online, where somebody would basically upload their spreadsheet. The geo coding process would be run against it and same output. You’d end up with a bunch of dots on a map or whatever your data, maybe. Okay, um, are there others you can recommend? Ah. Besides, every tool there’s, there’s lots of other energy A cutting things out there. Google Maps does geo coding. I think open street map has a G o coder. There’s lots of different options out there. I’m not as familiar with others as I am with ones that we try to be Galateri. Yeah, sure. No problem shouting out the every day, every tools, though. That’s fine. Okay, Um all right. That’s a That’s a great, you know, explanation of the process way. Have a lot of time left with another ten minutes or so. Yeah, And what else? What else is in this topic well on geo cutting really is is the tip of the iceberg, right? It’s how you get started and getting your data onto map. Well, where it really gets interesting is toe whatyou were highlighting a minute ago, right where you start overlaying different kinds of information that give context to your data, understanding the socioeconomic profile of neighborhood kids, where you may be working, or where your volunteers are where your donors are. One of the big things that we’re talking to a lot of people about this week or that they’re interested in, is how do I find more people like the donors that we’re working with today? Or how do I find more volunteers like the ones that were working with? All right, um, and this is a very similar thing to what businesses do with location information right tto find customers. But in the non-profits world, it may be a Organizations have a database with their donors or their volunteers. They put those onto a map. They’re able to identify what air the demographic characteristics of those individuals based on their location. And then it’s really easy to go and ask questions like, where are other places where we find the kinds of people that I’m wanting to engage rating people. Exactly. So that’s one of the big things that we see non-profits doing with our technology, whether that’s defined more donors or volunteers or more of the beneficiary population that they’re trying to support in some way. Now, commercial sites are doing this cos retailers exactly its banks, health care, how Starbucks decides where it’s going to put its next store. We’re named the business. It’s what I can imagine. I can imagine the rich data they must have about location of the what, what, what makes a story successful? Exactly, and and the kinds of characteristics of people that they find to be their best customers. Yeah, it’s effectively the same sort of question for a non-profit. You’re just trying to find donors or members or volunteers or beneficiaries, as opposed to customers. Come and yeah, it’s the same sort of thing. Also, that big logistics companies, ups, FedEx and others air using tio figure out how to get their packages. Two people in the most effective way on. That’s another. That’s interest of how non-profits could use Julius. All right, say a little more about what? Ah, package delivery service ups is how it’s using. So you mean like planning their daily planning the route for an individual truck each day? This is all this is all geo GS. This’s a GS problem, right? There’s in the numbers. All site won’t be exactly accurate. But you know, UPS has millions of packages that they need to deliver each day. They have tens of thousands of vehicles and drivers that are doing that work. They’ve got hundreds of thousands of locations that they’re delivering to and many different, you know, kind of factors that would affect which trucks and drivers they assigning jobs, too. GPS helps them tio analyze that problem. Ah, optimize the distribution of deliveries across that network of vehicles and drivers and get things to the places that they’re trying to go as quickly and efficiently and effectively as possible. There’s, you know, non-profit organizations who are running big logistics operations is well. We do a lot of work with U. N World Food Program, who faces many of these same pro problems trying to identify you know how to get re sources to the places that are needed as effectively and efficiently as possible. Where do you preposition resource is so that they’re accessible to people when they need them. But you could have many similar problems that smaller scales for non-profits who need Teo, you know, get volunteers to all of the places in their community that are needed to help with the trash pick up day or whatever the whatever the issue of the concern. Maybe so a lot of the data that you might be might be mapping is not data that you have that you have. So now we’re going beyond but might be data on economic socioeconomic status of a community, a block, a town might be racial distribution, shin education profiles, health care, healthcare outcomes. Absolutely. All right, so you know a lot of external data. So you then you map what? You’re what? You’re where your services are to where they’re needed exactly. And we take advantage of the open data movement that’s taking place around us, right? There’s lots of data that’s available from government at a national level, a state level, a county level. We invest quite a bit as a company and trying to make that open data accessible and usable for people so that they don’t have to do all the work of kind of bringing data together and putting it into, ah, a form that can be used in a GS. But, um, yeah, Isra and many of the different partners that we worked with in the non-profit space and government are making data services available that people congrats and mash up into, you know, Web maps with their own data and see, you know, beyond themselves. What is the landscape that they’re working in, the people, they’re trying to serve all of those things. But what’s your opinion of the Facebook data? We’re digressing now. Data data collection policies not sharing with non-profits, for instance, donordigital. When someone makes a gift on Facebook, you know they won’t reveal the data. I’m not sure I’m really even familiar that so if somebody’s making donations through face-to-face xero non-profit, you can’t get the you can’t get contact information. You can’t get the person’s email. I’m not sure they give. They might give Now. I figure they must give name, but non-profits have a have a big information void there. It’s It’s very, very hard for them to acknowledge that gift, so I’m not even sure that I know they don’t give email. I’m not even sure if they give name, and that’s hardly unique. But yes, that’s a problem. Yeah, it’s an interesting question. I’m not. I wasn’t really aware of that. But it’s ah. You know, I guess I could imagine it’s a bit of Ah, Catch twenty two situation, right? Terms of the privacy concerns and things that they must be facing, but at the same time, providing a service in a way that really is is valuable to non-profits. Yeah, I don’t know. It’s a challenging situation. I’m not sure not sure I have a clear opinion. Okay, let’s go a little broader than around the social media platforms. And not just not just Facebook, but and and, uh, whether they share data, you know, you’re you’re very much an open data. Uh, company way sport. Open data will benefit from open data. So the social platforms that don’t make aggregated data available they holding his proprietary? Yeah, that’s you know, I think that’s in in many ways, that’s, ah, business model that is somewhat sort of foreign or separate from the work that we do our roles. We built technology. We work with government customers who are working with sensitive data healthcare organizations who have private information that they can’t share, and they need technology that allows them to work in a secure, more closed environment. Many of our customers want to be ableto leverage, open data that’s coming from other organizations or make their own data available to others. Martek, Nala ji supports that. The view that we take the approach we take his toe is to provide a platform that allows people to make their data available in the way that they want to and that makes sense for them. Um, we don’t take any right or ownership or license of data that people put in our platform or using our platform were simply providing technology that allows them to use their data in the way that they want to. OK, Salim, we have about another a minute left or so. So how would you liketo wrap this up? Encourage people? Yeah, I guess the I appreciate the opportunity to chat with you and your audience, and I just would say that you know, there’s a lot that changed with mapping and GS in the last you know, five years. It’s really easy to get started. It’s accessible to anyone. It doesn’t take a master’s degree or a phD to be able to get started using JS and spatial analysis. And there’s a lot of opportunity and value for non-profits to start doing simple things, like putting their date on a map, overlaying it with other kinds of information and getting a better understanding of where they’re working, who they’re working with, where the opportunities for them to have a bigger impact. So many questions could be answered that that they’re having difficulty with now. Yeah, all right. He’s Salim’s AWA manager at Isra. Don’t say it s Terry. It’s spelled S r I. It’s Ezri. Um All right, Selene, thank you very much. Thanks so much stunning. Real pleasure. Thank you for being with our coverage of nineteen. Ninety Si non-profit Technology Conference This interview brought to you by our partners at ActBlue free fund-raising tools Teo, help non-profits make an impact. Thanks for being with us next week. Mohr goodness from the non-profit Technology Conference. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on Tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits. Data driven and technology enabled. Twenty dahna slash pursuing capital P Bye weinger CPS Guiding you beyond the numbers ready cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made easy Text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine. Ah, creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff, Sam Leave Luis is the line producer. Thie shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scots Diner, Brooklyn’s. That’s right, Scotty. You certainly are you with me next week for non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent Go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative network? Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in sometime potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time And listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates. Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Thie Best designs for your life Start at home. I’m David here. Gartner interior designer and host of At Home Listen, Live Tuesday nights at eight p. M. 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Nonprofit Radio for May 10, 2019: Google Ad Grants & The 2019 Digital Outlook Report

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Michael Rasko, Jason King & Michelle Hurtado: Google Ad Grants
Our 19NTC panel—including the head of Google Ad Grants—will improve the quality of your Google Ads campaigns and get your website, Google Analytics and Google Ads working together. They share lots of valuable resources. They are Michael Rasko from Rasko Digital Marketing; Jason King, certified Ad Grants professional; and, Michelle Hurtado from Google.




Elena Francis, Charly Jarrett & Jennifer Jones Ingram: The 2019 Digital Outlook Report
This 19NTC panel, Elena Francis, Charly Jarrett and Jennifer Jones Ingram, helps you get better at P2P, Facebook, team cross-training and adapting tech to your mission. Elena and Charly are with hjc and Jennifer is at Care2.





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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent of your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I grow is Anthill asthma. If I saw that you missed today’s show, Google advance our nineteen ninety seats channel, including the head of Google. Add grants will improve the quality of your Google ads campaigns and get your website Google Analytics and Google ads working together. The share lots of valuable resource is they are Michael Rasco from Rasco Digital Marketing. Jason King certified Add grantspace, Sessional and Michelle, Her Tato from Google and the twenty nineteen Digital Outlook Report This nineteen ninety seats Channel. Eleanor Francis, Charlie Jarrett and Jennifer Jones. Ingram helps you get better at peer-to-peer Facebook team cross training and adapting text tech to your mission. Elena and Charlie are with H J. C and Jennifer. Is that care, too? On Tony State to nuclear missiles? We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuing by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers witness cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to four four, four nine, nine nine. Here is Google Add grants. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen. Ninety c. You know where we are? You know what this is? It’s the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. We’re in Portland, Oregon, at the Convention Center. All our nineteen ninety seon reviews are brought to you by our partners that act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Our panel now is Michael Rasco, Jason King and Michelle hyre latto. Michael is seated next to me. He’s the owner of nasco Digital Marketing. Jason King is Google at grants certified professional. And he works under Jason King for Jason King with Jason King and Michelle Heart. Otto is the head of Google at grants at Google. It sounds like there is no higher authority on Google at grants. Deshele mamatoto in the world got a brilliant Okay, Absolutely. All right, well, we got the got the senior people here. All right, Beat. My voice is cracked. Um, there are some new policies new Google at grant policies. Is that right? That, uh, non-profit need to comply with? I was gonna start with you, Michelle. This’s our policies not nothing this year, but we are still, you know, helping the industry get used. Tio r changes. We have noticed historically that a lot of folks use Google I grants to get exposure. But there’s so much more to digital ads, it’s about effectiveness in terms of your goals. So we’ve put out a series of policies last year that will actually guide all of our non-profits and know what to do on a regular basis in their account to remain more proactive and get better results on DH, we’re gonna help them to comply with Yeah, yeah. We’ve been on a road show for the last year and here we are still today. So glad to be able to meet with more and more of our number on your road show has culminated Brought you to this day non-profit radio. Everyone does not have this privilege today way about thirty people know. Well, maybe twenty five thirty people have this privilege today and we’re grateful to be among some. I could tell Michael, think back and see your the enthusiasm you says with great sarcasm. Okay, um, let’s just make sure that everybody there’s a baseline among all listeners. Some people may not know. Michael. I’m Jason. Why don’t you explain what Google at grants is a two high level. So everybody’s on the same page about what the offer is. Okay. Oh, non-profits can get free in-kind donation of advertising up to the value of ten thousand dollars per month so they can promote their websites, their services, their offerings on information when people searching Google for information. Um okay, yeah, in some. I mean, we’ve offered nine billion dollars over the last sixteen years. Google had. This is the first film topic program that will ever offered its directly aligned with our mission. It Google to organize the world’s information. Non-profits have a ton of valuable information to get out there. You are well on the founding team of this sixteen years ago, Tio Michael, what would you like to add to our to our overview as we as we get started? Yeah, I’d like to add to what Jason said is is the way this tool really works is it gets people to your website when they’re searching something relevant to what you do, even if they’ve never heard of you. Because the way Google ads, works eyes based on a keyword system where you bid on terms you want to rank form. And if you’re part of this program, it could put you up much higher on the Google search results, and you’re non-profit could get more Web traffic on DH. As Michele was saying, You know, it doesn’t end at Web traffic. It’s also about what they do when they get to your website. So it’s super valuable to non-profits. Okay, um, let’s dive intothe policies that non-profits need to be onboard, resolutely compliant with so that they are participating properly. And I don’t know what happens if, if you don’t, you get your ad grants. Damn campaign deactivated. Think always the optimistic it could come back. And I know in fact, you’re here at NTC helping people on a account by account basis like what happened right? You’re okay. There’s bloody hell. There’s plenty of help available as well. So if somebody does get their account suspended, they just have to phone up. Google has support. There’s a very useful advertisers forum they can use on. There’s plenty of eyes to help them get back into compliance, get their accounts working better than before. Okay. I didn’t mean to scare everybody away, Shin, but away from the program. But, uh, but we do need to deal with the fact that there are some things you gotta comply with. So Michael wanted Teo kick us off. What? Trump would top problem area or two. Do you see among among non-profits And how can we help him? Yeah, I can answer that. But I also think that might be better for Michelle because Michelle has more information about from working at Google. What? What The suspensions are I have clients. Yeah, I’ve clients. Lam. Oftentimes it’s It’s ah quality score, Click through rate and incorrect Geo. Targeting are some of the ones that I see when non-profits come to me with an account that’s been suspended and I help them get reactivated. Okay, You want a liberal is just typically, you know, digital marketing is very different than traditional marketing. It is super responsive. It is super relevant. What someone searching for and consumers these days are more and more demanding, You know, like because of the internet coming along and super computers in our pockets I mean, people expect very relevant results instantly and very personalized what they what they want. So we’ve seen non-profits. You generally taking advantage of the opportunity to say Okay, well, of course I want to show up. I have a very powerful mission that I want to get across, and they put out a starter campaign, if you will. And it’s just different because digital requires an ongoing maintenance. Teo improve it overtime. And that’s that’s kind of the key elements of the policies is that we’re telling you. OK, overtime. You have to keep checking on latto rate and maintain your account. You have to have fresh content in your Web site. You know, you should make sure that your that your quality is high enough because if you don’t, if you don’t have good quality. Google’s ranking system is very much based on the user’s votes, essentially as clicks on Google dot coms results. And so if you get off to a bad start with low quality, it’s really hard to make to work your way back up. So we just want to make sure the non-profits hoo hoo join us in our program and all are welcome as soon as long. They’re just they need to be a little more prepared up front. So you’re kind of put out like the’s air. The expectations of front minimum viable. Okay, okay, let’s let’s talk about some more of them on Michael mentioned Joe, look atyou, Say incorrect Geo location. Yeah, so the something’s out of date like, well, location wise. It’s about setting the locations. You target your advertisements for two places that are relevant to your organization because a lot of organizations they are too broad on DH. There is a requirement by Google that you only focus on people that are relevant to your organization. Okay, it’s time for a break. Pursuant. The art of First Impressions had a combined strategy, analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. The e book is shorter than the title that’s there. Ah, e book on donor acquisition, of course. And how to make a smashing first impression on your potential donors. It’s at Tony dahna slash pursuant capital P for please to get to that listener landing page. Now back to Google ad grants. You just Yeah, relevancy is kind of the heart of it, apart from only showing hands that are relevant to the right locations is about targeting the right audience generally with the right key words, and then showing them the right page on the website, keeping everything relative to the needs of the person who expressed a need for information in the first place when they searched on Google. You’re trying to get the most relevant information to the person with the most precise need for your offering on one of the problems I see is that often they convey ear off their mission of it on. They need to stay focused on their offering when their advertising Okay, uh, let’s let’s shift a little bit on DH. Suppose we don’t yet have a have not yet taken advantage of Google at grounds Where where do we go? Toe start our campaign first, you’d have to Google us, Teo, get him set a Google addresses the program, and then we would guide you through a very lengthy campaign set up guide that would tell you how to walk through the jungle. Adds interface. Is this something that non-profit could do without experts like Michael and Jason? It certainly is. I mean, we walk you through it, but But we do highly recommend experts in this field. There’s a very Jason said There’s a way Maybe we should walk through some of that about the resource is that are available, you know when? OK, if we’re gonna get started on a campaign and help you know what, What’s available? So, for example, thiss last these this past year and a half or so we’ve been Certainly we’ve been doing a lot of events speaking and doing workshops, like when we hear it at ten. You know, that’s always a debate, like we wanna have, like, a really inspiring message. But we also want to have a kind of workshop, you know, help you learn on the ground like we’re here right here with you. And we’ve got our team here today in orderto actually optimize your accounts way. Also have a YouTube channel that has a ton of content on how to do this or that, or just have an overview. We also, you know, policy overview video as well. But it just like if you if you’re going to start, I recommend that you go to our YouTube channel and learn for like, one hour just watching overviewing of how it has set up an account. Um, we also have a If you want to get started, you have to set it up on your own. But then if you if you can’t work with a professional at this time, we also have a program where we partner with universities who are have students engaged in marketing lessons like they’re learning digital marketing and they need a field study. So we are offer you a way. Tio set up a match with a student team for four to six weeks or so they’LL walk through your goals and make sure they understand your organization. Put out a couple campaigns and then optimize it for you over the course of four to six weeks. And hopefully you’ll be in a whole lot better shape like that. Okay, there’s a bunch of resource option. Okay, Four. So, um all right, so now we’ve we’ve started our initial campaign. Andi, I understand the lesson that you need to keep it up to date current. It’s got a fresh content on your side. Uh, on relevant. How can we wait? We get to the next level, so we want a little higher quality. Jason, can you help us get from the first six months of our campaign? Teo now, we don’t know. Is it possible to spend ten thousand dollars a month in the beginning? Yeah, maybe. Maybe you’re being a little frivolous if you give your starting. If you’re out of the gate in ten thousand, you’re probably doing something wrong. I’m guessing it should be. Really Well, it shouldn’t really be the main focus of what you’re attempting to do. I mean, you mean spend all the money? Yeah. Spend it. Spent. All the money is not the objective. Because you spend all of the money when ineffective at present, completely worthless campaign. Sure, thie objectives should be instead to set up what they call goals and conversion tracking. So you’re tracking what people actually do. The actions they take on the website and for this to work, the website has to be set up. So technically well, they have somebody has to be a to go toe page on the website. This useful to them and taken action like filling in a contact for me, and that needs to be trackable on the website. So in order to get Google. That’s a kind of working. Well, you really need the website to function. You need gogo athletics. I presume you could do. Yeah, you do this tribunal. I think that’s the most efficient way to have the two working together now. Absolutely. Answer these. Get measure these things that you’re talking about. Yeah. You need the website, the contact management system, money working with analytics. Also working with Google ads. But also, you need to have, in your own mind quite well defined. Idea of what your objectives are. What you want people to do on DH. Then focus on that and not spend. Yeah, ofcourse. You’re focused on your call to action. I was just asking isat possible. Sure. It’s possible to squander a lot of money, but not not. Not wise. Okay. So, Michael, then s o we’re after are six months now. We’ve got in place what Michelle and Jason have explained. What’s your advice for getting to the next level? Want to be a little more sophisticated? Yeah, honestly, my advice is almost the exact same as Jason’s is. It’s about conversion. So when you want to take it to the next level, like I said it’s a great way to get people to your site because it’s responsive to search term. So it’LL put you towards the top of Google search results if you’re doing hyre all the things correctly in your account. But once they get to your website, you’ve got to really take a close look at what they do, what they do and what versus what you want them to do. Yeah, absolutely. So So maybe in the second in the second six months, maybe have some different goals? Yeah, that might be it might be some of the same goals with a hyre measure, or you might have different goals. Maybe initially, it was just getting someone to feed O. R. Look, a data visualization of the impact that you’re making in your local in your state. And now we’re in. In our second six months, we want to start recruiting volunteers. So first we just want exposure. Now we want some volunteers. I actually redesigned that. I’d say you should go on volunteers from the get go, and then after six months, based on what you originally planned, you should look at it and say what would well what went wrong. And when you look, look at what went well, try to bolster that. When you look at what went wrong. Try to understand why it went wrong in a limerick and eliminate it. But you should have, you know, pretty ambitious goals from the get go. But also, you know, restrained expectations because it’s an ongoing learning process of how this works. Okay, so that’s that’s why I’m not a CEO of a non-profit. Lackluster, lackluster goals had best not modest, lackluster, modest is too polite, lackluster goals. So initially. All right, so we want volunteers in the first six months. What are some of the things that you see? Well, we did. Maybe Maybe this may be the same answer, but some of the things that are going wrong, what’s going right? What are some of the things that you see going wrong? What I see going wrong? A lot is just too broad. In our session yesterday, we talked a lot about how to focus things towards your audience and when you add keywords into your account and this might get a little more technical for listeners who are just starting. But we’LL make you define your terms. Don’t weigh, have jargon Jail on non-profit radio charge in jail on there’s plenty of room. There are plenty of cells. This’s not what this is. It’s minimum security, but there’s a lot of capacity. Eso. One thing that often happens is when you type a keyword by default, it’s broad match. And when you have a broad match keyword that you’re bidding on, you could get a lot of impressions for things on ly loosely related to what you do and you want, like run. Yeah, I suppose. I suppose I’m now we’re switching goals and I’m tryingto recruit participants for a five K run walk. And I bet on the word run that might be a mistake. That would be a mistake. It’s also mistake because there’s another compliance rules where you can’t have a key word. That’s a single word. Key word. Oh my God, kruckel participate in this program. So So providing. Of course, I’m just kidding. I’ll provide you the example you in yesterday’s monisha, which is less glasses for sale glasses. Khun B. A lot of different things. So if you’re selling eyeglasses, you need to be very specific that they’re eyeglasses? Because if you just throw out the term glasses for sale, your martinis martignetti fashion glasses. Exactly. And those people will get impressions and shower doors. Stop, Stop! No, no. You guys really going? Yeah, you get it shows you get it. You can keep going. And so often times, you know what I see is ways to improve is being more specific. OK, OK, So for those of you who are out there already with an account, one of the biggest tips we would ask is check your monthly search terms report monthly. You know, just actually, that’s the difference of telling you where your ads actually showed up. For what did people type into google dot com And you’LL get a lot of insight there about things that you want to add to your key wordless and also to take away what’s caldnear give key words. It’s another piece of jargon. Um, Michelle, you’re probably you’re thinking person to ask. I was at a pan. I was in a interviewing a panel yesterday and someone said this was a digression. Probably caused by me. Have trouble focusing another reason. Another CEO of anything. I have to work for myself. These are when you when you’ve just met the good, glad grants you’re getting was residual something. You’re getting residual something’s or something. Eso is going back to Jason’s point about tracking. You know, we we can understand if you’ve set it up. What happens after someone clicks on to your site? You know, you want to make sure that they don’t like fifty percent of people just kind of bounce right off of the the site. Unfortunately, I remember I’m sorry that I was a little more context question. No, no, it was The suggestion was that it may be better for you to spend money even even if you still haven’t exhausted your ten thousand dollars free grant because it get it, get it different kind of. You might. It might be worth spending a hundred dollars if you see something Doing well for free, Get a different kind of a different kind of ranking or so. Yeah, we’re at duitz earlier was you. You’LL actually have more conversions, and we can track, but that’s a different story. Okay, this we’re talking about makes good sense. You don’t know what I’m talking about. No, no. You do actually, cause a lot of people actually make this mistake, assuming that you can’t have a paid account when you have a cool at Gran’s account, you Ken and I would wrap So you realize it because you’LL get a whole lot more volume. Hey, glad Grant’s offers. Even the positions like that are after the paying advertising messages called Residual Remnants Way. So we offer non-profits all of the space that’s available after paying advertisers. So sometimes for really competitive queries, there is no space left. But that being said, I would just say use at grants for figuring out what works for you and then when something works for you, then you could be really sure not take too many risks with opening up a paid account and doing really well there. Okay, also, there’s a display. If you wanted me to cover, just play video. Jason. Yeah, I was just going to have one point first. If you don’t mind that, I’ve I’ve known some non-profits. I think most non-profits Khun benefit from an ad grand for certain, but there are occasionally some particularly something say, like a CD. If I there’s some financial organization, CDF I, Charlie Delta Foxtrot. Indio. What? Do I put a quarter in the jug and swear books? No, no. It’s much more punitive than that. Ho ho, but okay. Their community development, financial institutions there that there was some types of non-profits where they are in competition, not just with other non-profits for advertising, but also we have, say, businesses. And really, they can add grantmaker not perform for them. And it is good to run that to do the grand as an experiment. But if it doesn’t work, and that’s because of the level of competition out there and then the paid account might be better for them. Okay. And Michelle, what were you asking matter-ness with that? We offer search ads. But there’s also video ads, for example, an image ads that are also really useful for getting for raising awareness for non-profits. Those are only for paid accounts. Yeah, okay. Okay. I mean, there’s only so far you could go on for your gun. It’s gotta be limits this thing a thousand dollars. Enough is all right, Michael, we have heard from you for a while. What you want? What you want to add here that we haven’t talked about yet. You did? Seventy five. You did seventy five minutes and way. We’ve only been at this for twenty minutes and forty three cents. I know. It seems like counting down there, like eighteen hours between twenty minutes. I could talk all day about this stuff. Just, you know, thinking that long. If you’re just looking for, like, what I wantto say that hasn’t been said yet is get started Something relevant, you know, once. One thing. One thing I hear a lot from non-profits is that they they heard about this, you know, years ago. And they haven’t gotten started yet. And I think, you know, the hardest part is getting started. Like like Michelle said, there are some things you need to learn before you apply, but this money is on in-kind amount and its use it or lose it. So the earlier you get started the better. Because if you dragged your feet for a few years, you’ve missed out on all that money you could have gotten It doesn’t get, um, loaded into your account later. Okay, That would be an ideal place to stop, But we have more time. I have a show on way. Have time with their policies around this show way Don’t stop twenty two minutes because I got two half hour segment show. So we’re gonna do We got too few more minutes. So what have we not have covered? I have Ah, are be proactive. Section be proactive. Okay, Jason, you got something there, Michelle? You want to start? Michelle just mentioned dynamic search ads. This is money. I find one of the simplest techniques to actually set up in a good Glamoc count. Eats Guns are very effective when you first start your campaigns because it fills in all the gaps in your advertising that enables Google to decide to show glassed inside to show an add even if you haven’t created one for that specific purpose yourself. So it’s kind of like you just a little more about this. Flush this out for us? Yeah. I don’t get it. It kind of automated is the normal. You right in there. Did you choose some keywords us and takes for that ad on? If people search for words similar to that, then your ads get shown that adds has shown up with the dark. Yeah, but with Dynamic sir chance. It works a little differently, even if you I haven’t chosen he worse and you haven’t got an ad for this topic already. Google might, based on what it knows about your website and all the pages on it might just decide to show an ad, and it writes most of the ant text for you. It’s kind of you have to You have to leave it to a certain amount of trust that you will write a good ad for some time. It does. It’s a very effective technique when you first start advertising, but it’s worth a try on most accounts. So it’s dynamic surgeons, and that’s something you select in your throughout the process. In the process of creating, you’re you’re absolutely When when you’ve created a campaign you can create in and prove like, Yeah, you know, you could write an ad group within that campaign and you make the ad group dynamic search. Okay, okay. If you and your trusting Googled radio appropriate at and it’s so simple to do, it’s a quick and easy win it on, and it could end up bringing a lot more visitors to your website that you boys would never go. Okay, But it’s not entirely trust either, because we provide tons of data back to you in the interface every time that we run that. And so you’LL be able to see exactly what what it’s working for you, what’s not. And that’s kind of the whole point, Tio. What brings us back full circle is that that’s the beauty of digital, as is that you get so much more information than putting out a billboard or something, you actually get it, and then you have to act on it to make it better. Yeah, I’ve had a couple of channels where they’ve lamented the social sites that don’t share data, including Facebook, when donation has made through Facebook on the data that the non-profit does not get back on. Actually, the recommendation was used Facebook to drive people to your own site and then and then have a streamlined process for making a donation there. Where you where you can ask the info that you need on Not yeah, not not be without it from your donor data, we’ve We’ve got a glance with good lads. I think you get more data than you could even handle. Sometimes there are so many more columns of metrics you can add to your screen. People unaware ofthe. There’s an immense amount of data you can get from it. I was saying to Michelle that one of my top tips for people is by the biggest widest monitor you can possibly afford if were to have two next to side by side to widescreen thirty two inch monitors aside, if you’re doing this stuff, but you raise a very good point and we have we have a couple minutes left. Uh, so what? You touched on this? Yes, yesterday just on this earlier. Uh, but what? What are the key member there? Maybe three. Four key top metrics that you should be paying attention to in your first six months in your first year. Maybe they’re the same ones you ticked off earlier, but I’d like to hear them again. Shoretz human-centered Check. What should we be looking at? Level Most important. Should we each name one or shall I do for you? Do two. I’LL do two So I just chose that because you said one or force I signed to one or two out of three. Yeah, the two is Click through rate and quality score, and that was the quality score. So there’s a quality score. The quality score is a number from one to ten. That is Google’s estimation of how relevant your key word is to the rest of your content. Specifically, your advertisement again, your landing base that you send them. Let’s make sure everybody knows what click through rate is. Click through basics to you, but it’s so good through rate is a percentage value of clicks divided by impression. So impressions is a viewing. Seeing viewing of your ads because in action taken so for recovery. If you get five clicks for every hundred times it’s seen, your click through rate is five percent precisely, Jason, you got one or two top metrics that Michael did not previously mentioned. Well, I’m actually going to repeat the one he did mention. I have not to do that. That’s why I’m doing it. Their policies are not proper radio way. I trust you to keep me clear. The Google ads Grant’s policies can’t adhere to the simple non-profit radio balls. Go ahead, anarchist. Okay, on the quality of school that Michael mentioned is broken down into the landing page experience and the ad relevance. Now, I think these two extremely useful because if you find that some of your ass and your gear is not working, you can look at these and you might find that your ad relevance is really high. In which case you’re writing a good ad, Yes, but you might find the landing page. Experience is really low, and that’s a clear to you that saying your ads agree your website is rubbish on the landing page that you’re providing people is not okay or vice versa. I find it useful for just diagnosing what the issue is. Vice versa. Right? Okay, Michelle, you I’ll give you my top. You’re the you’re the head of grants. Give one metric and then I’ll give you the wrap up. Okay. Conversions means the number of goals that you accomplished through your ads as a result of someone clicking in your ads. How many goals did your they reach on your website that you wanted them to do in the first place? Optimized for that? Tell your boards this is how much we’re getting through our website. It’s not about just website visibility if they bounce right away or if they don’t taken action that you want them. Tio Okay. Why did you leave us into the head of Google at grantspace You’LL leave us with inspiration. Inspirational ten seconds. What I see from our Cantonese is that there is so much passion and there’s so much more opportunity and digital ads to go after it. It’s just it takes a little extra investment of time and I know that it’s social tough in our space, but literally just a couple hours a month and you’LL be you’LL be flying with grams Okay, I just I just gave just gave you a terrific Lee Valuable. Uh, twenty eight minutes and thirty seconds of Google at grand time. They are Michael Rasco. He’s the owner of Rasco Digital Marketing. He’s also on the board of the Multnomah County Library. Basically right here, right here in Portland. We Multnomah County and Jason King is glad Grant certified professional. You’LL find him under Jason King on deshele Hurtado is the head of Google at grants for Google and I thank each of you Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you You’re welcome. Thank you for your for being with us. You’re on our coverage of nineteen. Ninety si the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology conference. All our nineteen ninety seon reviews brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools for non-profits to make an impact. Thanks so much. We need to take a break. Wagner CPS is enough with the webinar. OK, we’ve heard that their accountants do you need one. You need help with your form. Nine ninety is the time to change audit firms. They’ve got a deep practice for non-profits and the expertise to grow it. You know, an insider there, the partner Yet hooch Tomb has been on the show twice. You give him a ring, you check them out. Give him a ring. Wagner cpas dot com Now time for Tony’s Take Two. My video this week is a tour of a Minuteman nuclear missile launch control center. I worked in one at Whiteman Air Force Base from nineteen eighty four to nineteen. Eighty nine, and it’s actually not even write to say I worked at one because the base had fifteen of them and I probably pulled alerts at twelve or so of the of the fifteen, all dispersed throughout the throughout western Missouri. Ah, And so when I was at the reunion that you heard me talk about previous couple weeks, of course, we got a tour of the launch control center and the one we were at I was at many, many times. This was one that I pulled probably a hundred alerts at and you’LL see what they looked like with their nineteen sixties computer rack technology. You see the launch keys? I narrate you through where the where the the codes are stored, the safe with the two lakhs, each one of us on Lee knows the combination toe one lakh red safe, tiny red safe. But there’s the launch keys or stored in there and the documents that decode messages that would direct us to launch stored in that little red safe. Um, you see the commander’s console, the deputy’s console. You could see the light panel ten columns of lights, one for each missile that we commanded. Because when you’re gonna launch control center, you’re controlling ten missiles. Um, you see it all you see, you know, the big fat blast door like I don’t know twenty four inches thick or something with the pins that are like eight inches thick, that retract into the door and extend out into the A foundation to keep us secure. You see it all see it all on the tour. You catch that tour on my video at tony martignetti dot com, and that is Tony. Take two. Now here’s the twenty nineteen Digital Outlook report. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. That’s the non-profit Technology Conference twenty nineteen. We’re at the convention Center in Portland, Oregon, and today is day one of our our coverage of the two and a half day conference. This interview, like all of ours at nineteen ntcdinosaur brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. See the swag on the desk. See the swag on my chest? Well, one more can we do with me now are Elena Francis. She is digital marketing account give at H J. C. In the middle is Charlie Jared. She’s non-profit digital consultant at H J. C. And we have Jennifer Jones Ingram, director of strategy and partnerships that care too welcome Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. And pleasure. Pleasure. Having your topic is navigating the unknown. The twenty nineteen digital outlook report. Let’s start down at the end. I like to start down the end. Jennifer, what’s, uh what’s the news about this? What’s newsworthy about this? And we have almost a half an hour together so you don’t pack it all in, but just thirty seconds. What’s what’s the headline in the lead? Well, I think the reason it’s called the navigating the unknown is one thing that we found out from doing the survey of over almost two hundred people was that there are a lot of things that non-profits still are not aware of what their budget should be. Should they asked for more budget? How much should they be spending on digital? How much should how many stash they have for that? So even some of the basic questions like what is your Facebook strategy for? How are you finding new donors and legion? A lot of non-profits, the number of people who said I don’t know I was kind of surprising to us, and but the good news is, is that we’ve come up with many solutions on how we think people couldn’t continue to learn, continue to grow and continue to make their digital programs even better. Thiss was a report done by by care to and by H J. C. Or in Stacey and ten, an intern. Okay, which is no longer the non-profit Technology Network. You know that, right? It’s just they’re only intend. Now, I don’t want you to say non-profit does. That’s no longer an acronym. Okay, It’s just an intense right, Like the entire day rally in Triple A and Okay, got it. Got it. So, Amy Sample Ward is, ah, regular contributor on the show. She’s on every month talking about social in tech. So that’s that’s how that’s how I know that of great. Uh, all right, so now you mentioned only you the two hundred non-profits were surveyed. That doesn’t sound to me like a cross section of non-profit community. How did you choose the two hundred? How do we know this is representative of the community? It actually is pretty cross representative of it. I mean, we’ve got people from over, I think was over seventy different countries responded predominantly from North America and Europe. But multiple people responded organizations with budgets the size of two hundred fifty thousand up to over fifty million. Ah, large staff, small staff. So even though it’s a smaller number of non-profits, we found that it actually was a really good cross section of all the different groups that are out there. So there’s something for everyone in it. Okay, Okay, Charlie, you say that there’s there’s a lot to be learned in just using some basic technology. Digital foot. So peer-to-peer Facebook. Google Advance. Where do you expert in any, any one of these? Or that you can speak to what the report tells us that any of those things or, I mean, I specialized in social, So okay, the amount of info that was available for non-profits to share with us from Facebook was actually really limited, and there’s kind of a I don’t want to call it conspiracy makers. Well, ah, Facebook is there doing it purposefully. They don’t want to share that data. They want to keep it insular. So their techniques that we want to talk about where it’s getting your donor’s off of Facebook away from engagement. That’s what Facebook wants will you want convergence and people go into website and getting more involved in your non-profit. So their techniques to do that Getting them away from Facebook onto your on, getting involved in your you’re non-profit. Okay, So what? What are some of those techniques s O we want actually try and stay away from their fund-raising tools? As much as we’re tempted to use them because they are so easy on accessible. We really want to try and have our websites more mobile friendly. So that’s super important. Teo, make sure that you’re you’re Was everyone on everyone on Facebook on there? I had a guest just within the past couple weeks or so said that we’re past the question. Should your sight be mobile optimized? Yeah, everything, especially around fund-raising needs to be mobile optimized. Yeah, OK, OK, so you want to see people organizations using Facebook more as a referral source to back to their site rather than keeping them on Facebook? Despite the easy fund-raising tools that air there? Exactly. Yeah. Don’t be drawn in. Yeah, so I’m based in Canada. So Canada, we just got those fund-raising tools as of November. So we’ve just had the start of it, where in the U. S. And Europe had them a lot longer. Eso but Canadian non-profits air still seeing the same amount of money come in and with all the data come in because they’ve had been forced into a really lucky corner kind of Teo be able Teo, make it work for them and it’s benefit of them more long term. So in some non-profits, sixty percent of new donors air coming in through Facebook and they’re getting all their data and they’re able to roll them into their welcome, Siri’s, whereas if you’re using the Facebook tools, you don’t get all that data and very optional, so you really have to be careful with it. You are still encouraging people to use it for peer-to-peer because that data isn’t as valuable when somebody’s donating to a friend, as opposed to maybe your organization, they’re not as invested in your organization, so peer-to-peer is still very valuable because the data isn’t as valuable, but it just really proves how valuable it is. How many times can I say that one sentence, er that is Facebook’s doing. It’s so incredibly, it’s so important that you try to afford that data for yourself because Facebook’s trying to steal it all from you. Alright, alright, you should say steals. You may go for you’re gonna call them thieves. It was called conspirators. Is Elena What’s what’s your what’s your activities in this? But what can you speak to on DH? So we deal with a variety of clients for obviously the non-profit world, and a lot of them, as we mentioned as well in the report, do not use the tools that they have effectively. All they’ve got to tools of the exact same purpose on different teams use the tools and they can’t aggregate the data together in a meaningful way from those two different tools on. The other thing that I find in my experience is reflected in the non-profit industry is that there’s a complete lack of transparency between departments that are working perhaps on similar campaigns on they would gain so much if they shared their expertise and their current campaigns with each other. A lot of organizations each department has their own sort of separate campaign calendar, and there’s a lack off a whole integrated one. That’s sort of like Mark Markham’s wide on when I speak to clients, and from what we learned in the report, it seems that people would prefer that there was shared visibility with one calendar, so you can see what the organization is producing any given time. So this is something that we really emphasizing the report initially, it doesn’t sound digital focus. When you talk about, you know, communicating and working with different departments better on the other thing, there’s well, that isn’t instantly. What would think off, perhaps for digital outlook report on the future is that we encourage people to use the right technology that suits them and seats. They’re supporters as well. Metoo really Steve a Steve into that. And I recommend things are already easy quick winds today that we’re surprised organizations on doing okay, we’re going to get through some quick winds. Ilsen has loved those first. Let me ask you, because I don’t want to forget. Where can welcome listeners get a copy of the Digital Outlook report? How do we get it so well? So Charlie’s holding it up. That’s eyes there you are well on their way, so outlook report dot com digital outlook report dot com Because not everybody’s on the video. The vast majority of our listeners are off our audiences. Listeners. Okay, it’s really small in the card anyone? A digital outlook report dot com All right, One of the first things you mentioned Eleanor was integration between tools. E-giving Give us an example. What? Which? Which platforms or tools you’re talking about? That you feel organizations aren’t integrating a CZ well as they could, so it was a really bizarre situation. I had a client that was using male chimp on eliminate for sending emails, and there was sending it seemed to me randomly they would choose which messaging service to use. And it seems like a no brainer to stick with illuminate because that’s built for non-profits. But they preferred using male chimp for smaller campaigns because they said it was easier and more user friendly. But it just seems strange that you have these two different lots of data stored in separate email service providers. History Very strange. Jennifer What? No, I was just saying that it’s strange that they had two different email service providers for one organization. What? Usually you choose one of the other and bloomin it is much more robust. Exactly. Khun Dio So I know male chimp might be easy, but I know it wouldn’t be coordinated. Communications. I would think that that’s always a concern of ours. Making sure everyone’s communicating the same way to the same people and keeping that consistent. Yeah. Compliance with oft out with the challenging as well. Yeah, I’m sure that that’s fascinating. Back and forth. Exact dahna. Alright, so? So we can live a lot of bad practice having having two of anything Absolutely duplicated. Right? All your your contacts duplicated in both both platforms. No point pick one. Yeah. Yeah, OK, You’re just asking for something to go wrong. That kind of something gets up, one one gets updated, the other one doesn’t weigh, do a lot of journey mapping with clients grayce See and feel that we speak Tio, we do a tech order on we find the different departments feel more comfortable using from technology even if they have the same name. Another thing as well that we’ve noticed is that because the non-profit world usually has quite a high staff turnover, new staff come in with new ideas or old staff, you know, take their ideas with them Tio wherever they go next. And that’s why you get multiple tools for the same application, and it just two metoo seems too ridiculous for an organisation is really a non-profit melon, also with care to weigh, help non-profits find new donors and supporters and way find that some of the digital platforms are a lot easier to work with and others, especially if you’re bringing in a lot of new donors. Sometimes they they have spot heist fan thresholds. They can accidentally turn a non-profit off, which is never a good thing. Yeah, so it’s from a legion point of view. It’s always good to have a single, highly functioning, multipurpose ilsen Charlie a little bit of a digression, but after that, there’s a J C stand for anything. What does this C stand for? Johnson. Consultant John Results. We’re going out to say that like it’s not like non-profit technology like, and we’re not supposed to say when I say it all the time. Non-profit technology never. Okay, um, let’s talk about some things quick. Fixes You brought up the idea of quick fixes, Elena, but Charlie hasn’t talked for a little while. Do you have any have any quick, quick fixes that can come out of the digital report? I mean, it’s amazing how many people are using Google at Grant. It’s OK, they’re still giving. I’m going to give you a chance. They’re still giving ten thousand dollars per month up to which is pretty generous. Yeah, yeah, ten thousand a month. There are for non-profits. Yeah, and it’s something. It’s kind of a no brainer at this point. You really, If you’re not, if you don’t exist on Google, you don’t exist. So you really it’s really easy to get into. You just have to go through the application process. I think a lot of non-profits really intimidated by it. But it’s a great for a well managed junior staffer to take it on on and just get it going. And then there’s many grants out there to actually help you learn how to use it on. There’s a whole online process. If you could just go on and all these three tools just learnt how Teo So it’s is it a steep learning curve getting into Google at grants for You know, first day I would say no. I would say if he spent three days on their learning tools. You you weren’t gonna have. You could do all the basics. Okay, Yeah. If you go, if you just kind of go in and go for it, there’s one person considered. Do it and I know it does get very sophisticated. It doesn’t, but it’s a threshold. You don’t feel like it’s. It should be intimidating to a small and midsize shop. It shouldn’t really to go really far with it, but there are many levels of success. You don’t have to go in and be making a ton of revenue. But if you if you can boost your traffic by just a few percent, that’s a huge win. Okay, so it’s a It’s a no brainer and definitely should be looked into more. OK, time for our last break text to give you get there. Five part email. Many course to dispel myths around mobile giving donations do not have to go through the donors phone company that puts a limitation on on the donations because the phone company doesn’t want to collect too much money. They don’t wanna be responsible for any more than a couple a couple of dollars you don’t have to go through phone companies. You could do mobile giving without the phone companies. That’s what you can learn. That’s a part of what you learn in this five part email. Many course You text NPR to four, four, four nine nine nine. We’ve got lots more time for the twenty nineteen Digital outlook report. Jennifer, you have something quick that comes out of the thie report? Yeah, I think one of the areas that I’ve been focusing on is that the communication between different departments, particularly communications and fund-raising, our marketing and fund-raising depending what you call it. And I think that, you know, doing simple things like meeting once a month and just sharing what it is that you’re doing. Having a calendar that has everybody’s communications on it on DH, even just something as simple as that. Ask stopping Find that if you actually will switch desks with someone who’s in a different department, it’s amazing just how you all of a sudden haven’t understanding of what that department is going through, what they need. So if you can, you can you can you can I bring my stress ball with me to the nude. Absolutely. Hyre switch What? Well, and it doesn’t have to be a permanent situation, but maybe are like a day or two. You just literally will switch desk. You’re working with different does exactly and work in a different department. So you’re talking to. So if you’re a fundraiser and you’re sitting in the marketing department, you all of a sudden maybe understand why they communicate in a certain way to donors That’s different from your communication. But now that you understand it, you could say, OK, I get it. So when we do our communications, I know how I can work with them to make sure that we’re talking to our donors in a similar way. Okay, this is the cross skill. It’s learning that you mentioned in your exactly your session description. Okay, Element, you brought up the idea of quick fixes Lovett. What? What do you have out of the report that you’d like to see done better on easy to do so? One of the things that we find with a lot of our is there some background is that noise. Is that coming from behind the behind our backdrop? I think so. I think that’s a V C R m. They’re out of control. But that’s that’s what That background noises. But now I’m seeing it shakes. Always having too much fun over there. Yeah, VCR M com comfort. OK, I think they took my admonishing quite it down. Okay, I’m sorry. On a and so one of the things that we recommended in this report is that a lot of the time again because non-profit unfortunate, do you have a high staff turnover? Sometimes the training programs and new staff received honors, you know, comprehensive as they could be. So we recommend It’s a really simple thing. I’m surprised more organizations don’t do it, but write your own how two guys with how to use specific kinds of technologies. So when somebody does come in and maybe they don’t have people run experience, they can have a guy that’s always making final online. But if you’re right with God, that takes into account what your organization uses Google ground. There is something that will not be relevant to your organization online. But if you have a bespoke guide, your organization is. Somebody could read it and have screen shots, and they know exactly how to use it, how to four reports out to look at the metrics and matter to your organization. And it’s just a simple thing to have in a shared drives. So no matter who comes in or leaves, people can’t just go in and they’ve got a written guide. You know, visual aids. I love calling it a he spoke guide. Yeah, sorry. So is worth the time to document. Yeah, doctors use each different platform. Okay, there’s always that a situation where the one person who knows how to work a servant part of the database has to go out on sick leave or goes on vacation. How dare them go on vacation? Never a good time to be sick. So this this way. I mean, there’s always a backup plan, so you don’t feel trapped or panicked or stranded, and it happens. Charlie, How was the, uh was the report compiled interviews or serve written surveys, online surveys where I was the info gathered. It was all online survey, and then we all got together and pulled all the most clear data that we could from it on DH. It was really great for three organizations to come together and pull all the different things that we saw patterns in to that we wanted to share with everybody and the non-profit community to see. So each individual person sharing their own experience and then coming together and then seeing the patterns that come out and what I mean really was a major thing of what people didn’t know was the real shocker of the whole report. Just adding in that extra question, I’m like, I don’t know that And it was really Oh, that means that department’s not sharing that or that apartment’s on another one. So it’s really great. Teo acknowledge that there’s lot everyone doesn’t know, but there’s together. We all know it. So we need to really share across teams across killer teams and making less silo like we always talked about in every time. I feel like every single conference talks about silo, but it’s just, you know, emphasizing the support all over again. There’s no one on the panel from intend you khun sake Confidentially. Nobody listens to this show. Did intend pull their weight organizationally organization wise. Absolutely. Today Oh, you’re getting probably was a ringer off camera. Every everyone was involved a juicy weight. We all work together on it, and we have for the past. I know you worked together, but that intent pulled their share of the ways. Absolutely. Do I’m asking? Explicit questions are wonderful. Expert. You okay? Thank you. Um, let’s see. Um e let’s like this idea of a cross cross training cross skill. Any other suggestions besides desk swapping? Any other ways of how there must be other ways. Yeah, one of the things that’s great about death stopping as you’Ll learn that there are people that you sit next to maybe their developer. But they have experiences a graphic designer on DH. You wouldn’t really They wouldn’t say necessary in their job. But you get speaks to them and get to know them or on DH. The other great thing is, Well, if someone has the time, they could do in lunch and learn. So perhaps somebody’s interested in, you know, creating a paid such campaign strategy, and they’re just a regular copywriter. But there’s someone else you can write a copyright for and, you know, paid such they can have a session with Copywriter and teach them that skill. And it’s just a free, you know, short lesson. Basically, you’re not paying for a course. So you know you’re learning you’re learning from your peers your cut from your colleagues? Absolutely. And when they go to do the camp there first over campaign, they could be shadowed by the expert, and they can ask them questions. They get started. So it’s not just a one off session that you attend, and that’s it. You have the ongoing support for as long as the experts that OK, and I think it’s I think it’s also important that when tohave management encouraged people to share what their skills, that is because I think a lot of times like the example you gained a developer who ilsen knows graphic design. That may not be something that person it talks about very much. But if you encourage people to share what it is that they know, you will find and probably be very pleasantly surprised at all, the skill says that you do have on your team just do that in meetings or what Regular meetings brainstorming. Hey, does anybody know how to do this? Design this logo or does anybody and just you know, if you have an open communication and a nen vier mint of encouraging that you will find that more people will speak up and share what it is that they could do. I love this cross team learning. You can’t cross skillsets. Yeah, yeah, It’s a lot of building relationships, as fundraisers were always talking about building relationships. But it’s super important to build those relationships within your internal injury, not only with your donors and volunteers and potential donors. Yeah, treat all of your fellow co workers just like their donors and making sure you’re generous and kind to them as well, because they will be generous and kind to you. I feel like we forget that we’re together. We’re together day in and day out, eight, ten hours a day way. Take it, take each other for granted and absolutely way. Forget that we should be building relationships and learning from each other the way we’re doing. For those who are, you know, another constituent. The external constituents exactly makes the workplace much more stimulating that way, and people feel valued when you’re using their skills that they didn’t adverse. I advertise or they don’t use day today and it makes everybody feel more valued. And it also, you know, improves the workplace environment as well. People are happy to come to work, excited to come to work. And when people are happy and exciting, that’s when the creativity just could go through the roof. Let’s talk about adapting technology to your needs rather than you adapting to the technology. You mentioned that in your session description. Who wants to talk? You want to start with adapting to your purpose rather than vice versa. Way had a case study of the BCS PC and thank you for B C B C S P, C A, B C, Rutgers Columbia species because it’s one of the largest animal welfare organization shit in the world on they want to do a, uh, gift catalog. But there constituents are middle aged women, so they wanted something that was very familiar to them for the online experience. They didn’t want to go out of the box. There was nothing that they could really see that was going to be super familiar on easy and just really integrated. So instead of going with any non-profit tools, they went with Shopify on DH, adopted it as a non-profit tool on went and sought out on an APP developer that was created a specific tax receding app, but that is now available to anybody. So they it is an open source tax reseeding abs. So anybody that wants to use that kind of technology can, uh so sharing generously with non-profit community on DH. It’s totally its growth and compliant with U. S and Canada. So So you were encouraging. Encourage using tools or least evaluating the usefulness of tools that aren’t necessarily non-profit. Non-profit created exactly exactly just going instead of just being. This is the only thing available to us making something work that is going to work. Most importantly, for the constituents and for their supporters, that’s who you’re really was. The most important people is like Who’s who’s it going to, who’s going to use it every day on if it’s not fixed them? And that’s what they’re comfortable. But make it work. You still have a few minutes left. What, have I not ask you that you want to talk about anybody? Anybody, okay? You’re doing this seventy five minute workshop and we’ve been together for, like, twenty four, so don’t hold out on non-profit A lot of a lot of cubine. Yeah, right. Okay. All right then I’ll do tomorrow more cues. Okay. Um we didn’t talk. Uh, we don’t talk too much about peer-to-peer way just brushed on it now, See, now we only have a couple minutes left. So who wants to talk? Charlie? It looks like you want to talk about peer-to-peer. Well, we’re really surprised. Forty four percent of non-profits air not embracing peer-to-peer when there’s such a huge demand for it. People want that person’s experience. Online experience is more and more personalized, and people want fund-raising the way they want it. Fund-raising Not necessarily with, you know, the run you do every year, the gala you do every year. And it’s a very kind of you, Mitch. More and more in each market, people want to do what they wanted. Teo. So we want more non-profits. Look att peer-to-peer creating the tools that that will empower their donors to go out and do do peer-to-peer campaigns. What else? What else can we learn from this report? Peer-to-peer I’m that Besides, look at it if you’re into it, and if you’re in the forty four percent. It’s not as daunting or scary to look at that two. Doas. It looks I mean it when you do one. I think you just get really behind it, get more creative and come up with all these different ideas. You’re basically giving power, Teo. The you know, the fundraiser Teo, do what they want Teo to get money, and it gives them more of a sense off. Just I raise this money rather than I give money to an organization. So create a closer bond with the organization rather just sending a donation through a landing page. Okay, Okay. I think one of the barriers a lot of non-profits have to use the technology to do peer-to-peer is not always the best, but I know that improvements are being made on that all the time. And I think, you know, don’t let the technology be the barrier to do it. It’s still something that’s so valuable for every non-profit that they should do it exactly. We’re gonna leave it there. All right? Right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. They are Helena Francis, digital marketing account Exec, H J C Charlie Jared non-profit Digital consultant at H J. C. And Jennifer Jones Ingram, director of strategy and partnerships. That Care, too, And you Are with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ninety seethe. Twenty nineteen non-profit Technology CONFERENCE Like all our interviews, this one is brought to you by our partners and act blue. Free fund-raising Tools Help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us next week. Nobody’s reading your pdf CE and mapping your data. If you missed any part of today’s show, I’d be seat you find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by Pursuant online Tools for Small and midsize non-profits, Data Driven and technology enabled Tony dahna. I’m a Slash pursuing capital P by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers wetness tps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made easy Text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine Ah, creative producers Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York, with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative network. Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in sometime potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Thie Best designs for your life Start at home. I’m David here. Gartner interior designer and host of At Home Listen, Live Tuesday nights at eight p. M. Eastern Time As we talk to the very best professionals about interior design and the design, that’s all around us right here on talk radio dot N. Y c. You’re listening to Talking Alternative Network at www dot talking alternative dot com now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Sam Liebowitz, your conscious consultant. 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Nonprofit Radio for May 3, 2019: Reducing Donor Abandonment & Welcome Your Donors The Right Way

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Matt Scott & David DeParolesa: Reducing Donor Abandonment
From Amazon to Zappos, there’s a lot you can learn from e-retailers to keep your donors in the checkout stream as they make their online gifts. Our 19NTC panel, Matt Scott and David DeParolesa, reveal proven e-commerce strategies to increase online gift completion. Matt is from CauseMic and David is at Give Lively.





Brenna Holmes & Chrissy Hyre: Welcome Your Donors The Right Way
Your donors now complete their online gifts at record rates. Have you got in place a multichannel welcome and nurture series to receive and steward your new donors? Our panel will get you started. They’re Brenna Holmes with CCAH and Chrissy Hyre from Innovation. (Also recorded at 19NTC)





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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent of your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d grow on Odo polyp ous if I heard that you missed today’s show. Reducing donors Abandonment From Amazon to Zappos There’s a lot you can learn from e retailers to keep your donors in the checkout stream as they make their online GIF ts Our nineteen anti seat panel Matt Scott and David de Para Lisa reveal proven e commerce strategies to increase online gift completion. Matt is from cause *** and David is at Give lively and welcome your donors the right way. Your donors now complete their online GIF ts at record rates. Have you got an in? Have you got in place? A multi-channel welcome and nurture Siri’s to receive and steward these new donors. Our panel will get you started. They’re brenholz is with C ch and Chrissy hyre from innovation that’s also recorded at nineteen and TC. I’m Tony Steak to be the one we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony Dad, I’m a slash pursuing by weather CPAs guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to four four four nine nine nine Here is reducing donor Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. You know what that is? It’s a non-profit technology conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. This interview, like all are nineteen ntcdinosaur views is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. My guests now are Matt Scott sitting closest to me. He’s CEO of Cosmic and David De Para Lisa, CEO of Give Lively Welcome Welcome mat. Welcome, David. Thank you. Thanks, Tony. Pleasure. Pleasure to have you on DH mascot. Welcome back to non-profit Radio. Thank you. It’s good to be back. All right. Your topic here today is reducing donor. What’s a copy from e retailers? David, why don’t you get us started? What? Give us the Give us the headline in the lead. Sure. So this session is intended to help non-profits think about the full life cycle of thie experience of making a donation and all of the elements that could result in someone dropping off from completing a donation way. Want to, you know, bring in expertise from the consumer world. The world that most everyone lives in on apply it to this non-profit space. Okay. And just so in case there’s any question want you define abandonment for us. So someone starts a starts to donate two or starts thie intent, or has the intent to donate to your cause and then leaves in the middle of it. Right? Okay. Yeah. Okay, Matt, anything you want to add to the overview of our session? Yeah. I mean, I think when we’ve had a lot of conversations, one of the thing that I really enjoy about David’s perspective is you No way. Think about Amazon. One click check out. Right. We think about Netflix in terms of, you know, the user experience that we’re all used. Teo and I think that if we can copy some of those things and move them over to the non-profit space, we’re going to be a head as an industry. But if we’re thinking on ly about competing against other non-profits from a donor experience, we’re going to find ourselves in a lot of trouble because you’re starting setting the bar too low. You’re setting Well, yeah, you’re absolutely setting the bar too low, because we, as consumers, are also the people who are donating to charities, right? And if our expectation is for it to be a seamless process to collect a little information as possible to have unique, engaging content delivered to us if we’re not thinking like that as a nonprofit organization, we’re missing out on consumer behavior, which are the e retailers, that you want us to learn from that really broad base. So you know, we’re inspired by Amazon Zappos to some degree you thie experience at an Apple store, which, you know, in a way, is a kind of hybrid retail experience and generally taking best practices from that space broadly, even if it is in a specific retailer, it’s It’s some of the elements of what makes Annie retail experience common. For example, a simple donation, a simple check out flow a a checkup, though that doesn’t ask many questions but lets you get through it as fast as possible. A one click check out a digital wallet capability, the’s air, things that have worked for the for-profit sector and non-profit sector is catching up and we hope to help them get there. Yeah, why? What’s the What’s the problem? Why so slow? I mean, we’re all experiencing these things on the e commerce side. Why were we not recognizing that? Uh, the analogy between our our donors and ourselves as consumers? What’s the disconnect? I would say that there’s an access issue. There’s an access to technology that brings the retail style practices to the non-profit. Sectarian give Lively is a response to that problem, which is looking at the world of non-profit tech and seeing that elements like digital wallets are not common, that something that isn’t available in the A lot of other platforms but that is available on the give lively platform. So it’s those types of things that have kept non-profits behind. I mean, unfortunately, platforms or not innovating as fast as they can. And they’re not innovating with the consumer mindset that that us in just a few other players are. Okay. All right, so I started to add to that one of the things that I think is really interesting working with established non-profits, You know, you you look at these behemoths and they are their worst own worst enemy When it comes to technology, you look at the younger, more rapidly growing organizations, and those are the ones that are really out there able to adopt new technologies quickly. They’re not constrained by existing say, CR M systems or their, you know, existing, you know, ways of doing things. And and when you when you take a tool like give lively and you put it out there and you integrate with the C R m like sales force, you unlock that potential. And I’ve seen it time and time again, where established non-profits in particular they are their own biggest hurdle when it comes to getting getting in line with e commerce. Best practice? No. All right, all right. So why don’t you kick us off, Matt? What? Uh, let’s get kicked off with what we should what we should be learning. Where do we start? Yeah, I mean, I think David brought up a lot of really good points in terms of Amazon, and you’ve got, you know, a donor experience. But then what I’m really interested in and I think where we complement one another is on the content side. And so I like to always start with you know who is your target audience? What is the unique user experience that that person or persons wants tohave with your brand? And how can you make sure from the moment that they interact with your brand and are brought to your page to your checkout form that they understand you’re unique market position? And so I think that that’s really important to have a singular content strategy that’s very user focused. And, uh, if it’s okay handing it over to David because I feel like that’s where he picks up in terms of the e commerce checkout process and where that’s really critical in terms of the transition from content to check out. OK, yeah, I noticed matter-ness were on Mike, you’re more deferential than, uh Well, then all this *** that you were giving me before before. Before I turn the mike on, why don’t we talk about monthly giving, for God’s sake? But all of a sudden, my cousin, he’s like, uh, if you don’t mind, I’d like to pass it over to David. Very interesting. There can only be one New York around like you’re dominating. Yeah, you multiple turned. You know, talk about talk about best. I’m gonna start the guest personas start start creating that that is surrounded by New Yorkers right now. Yeah. You know, you’re only here. He’s being into forced deference. A submission sametz Alright, yes. Well, I’ll take your suggestion. The matter very politely requested It’s time for a break Pursuing the art of first impressions how to combine strategy analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. That’s their e book on donor acquisition and had to make a smashing first impression with your potential donors. You will find it on the listener landing page at Tony that I may slash pursuing capital P for please. Now back to reducing donor-centric. Share your expertise. You did tick off a bunch of things. I wallet went one click, check out seamless, but we got we got a lot more time together that way. Gotta go into some detail. Yeah, and so you know, at first I think it be helpful too. Acknowledge what Matt mentioned in terms of thinking about storm the content, right? And the thing that keys in for me there is thinking about how the experience starts at the level of the ask and then the level of the intent of the donor. So to reduce abandonment, you want to get the right person to the checkout flow, right? So you want to start with the right people who respond to that message. And so you know what that’s doing It cosmic is creating messages that resonate at a very granular level with different constituencies in such a way that when they get to the checkout flow, they finished the check out great. And I think that okay, that thread is a thread that involves technology because it’s not only the channels in which that message is being sent, but then it’s how that story is represented on the donation page and through the check outflow and even after the checkout float. Okay, we’LL come back to that. I understand ITT’s all of spectrum. Yes. Ah, movement a process, Matt. What? The different how we identify the different constituencies for these granular messages. Yeah, No, you’re you’re getting at is like, what are the technical steps that need to be put in place? So let’s just take acquisition is a great example, right? So you’re you’re going to post up a variety of ads like paid social. And if you set up separate landing pages with separate checkout forms, that’s one way of identifying. You know, this ad directly relates to this check out page, and there is a continuum of content once you arrive there at that page and you know they arrived from there because you’ve set up different ones. The content can then be dynamic essentially for that constituents. And that’s where David talks a lot about stealing your thunder here. But you know, you you have you have that check out for him. That’s asking for his little information as possible. So capturing that email address in that zip code and getting right into the payment and and you’re getting right down to the nitty gritty then you’re worrying about Okay, now that I’ve already got this information, what additional information do I need to provide? But I’ve already processed the donation. That’s right, Yeah, So it’s thinking about what is Germaine to the donation experience as the only things that you should be asking a donor before the payment is actually made. You want to capture the dollars, so every affair to say, like with his few distractions, is possible. There’s no need to have AH on issue video on your or issue photos on your on your checkout page for donation. The person has already moved by your issues. Well, it depends in their different ways that that can be implemented. One way would be to have a page that’s both telling the story and allows you to make that seamless donation in the same view. Okay, and there’s some that do the jump, right? So there’s a storytelling page, and then you jumped to a donation form that’s on a different page, and I’ve seen it done both ways and, you know, way See it work both ways really depends heavily, though, upon how they get there, right? Like if they’re coming to your they’re experiencing your brand for the first time, where they haven’t, you know they need to be informed, right? And so another best practice is having called toe actions throughout your page. Right? So you’re not just one. So you’ve got big, strong, powerful image or something that draws that user in from a content perspective in a high c t es of donations and I think Sita Way got drug in jail on non-profit radio. A cz a previous guest Disappointed you didn’t know that lock myself away is a call to action, right? And to that point, I mean, I think that’s that’s another best practices. Give lively donation check out form can be embedded into your existing site so you can have this microsite like, let’s say, taken unbound page right. And you know that you’ve set up this unique page and you’ve got the both the story there and the narrative there, and then you’ve got a call to actions throughout the page. That’s best practice, because as they move down the content, there’s lots of opportunities to make that contribution. Okay, what’s an unbound page they’re not paying me to talk about on? I’m just kidding. Way were, It’s a wonder. Anything anyone think it’s a tool. You keep this up, I’m shutting your Michael Fair Fair. It’s a it’s a landing page tool that is really easy to use in turn end of setting up unique content on DH. Then you Khun, track that you know someone lands on that page and you contract that they came into your database specific to that content. Okay. Okay. So this is we’re getting to our segmentation of constituencies. Okay, Okay. All right. So now let’s go back to David. What more can you say about place? Things you need to have in place? Sure. So you know one thing that this let’s start at the very kind of high level, which is that a donation form should work if you’re going to reduce it. Abandonment of your donation form one. Someone’s in it. It better work on a mobile device, but it’s kind of a simple statement, but we’ve got to be passed out by now. I mean, everything should be mobile, but that’s not a body. But that’s not always the case. And they’re still donation forms out there that are asking for. I like to joke. It’s there asking for everything but your blood type. You know, it’s a it’s a twenty eighty step form that. Then at the end, you have a credit card entry field. Maybe, and maybe there’s an error in that process. Just over what kind of stuff? They all asking. But I don’t dare ask me. Study this So they’re asking for. You often will see full mailing address, even if that person has no is a digital savvy your digital only person. They’LL ask questions about, perhaps, how they got to our learned about the cause, which is a good question asked. But maybe not before the dollar is captured and can be inferred by some of the tracking that’s occurring. That brought them to the patient was That’s right, pages, etcetera. Okay, um, you know there are even in how the payment information is presented is an element that can be very confusing. So for some donation forms, they make you type or choose whether it’s a Visa card instead of just detecting. Yeah, why did he do that? I know it. And I can tell by the first digit they could tell that the battery ditches first for Justin. It’s welcome. And that’s not even that’s not unique to non-profits Know that. Was there e commerce mary-jo just to say that? I said, That’s laziness on behalf of those building those forms, okay, or that’s lack of capacity. Shoes is a diner’s club or MasterCard or visa or markets. It’s laziness. I mean, it’s easy to detect. It should be present on every single page is interesting. All right. So I don’t know if listeners were interested, but I am well, but it’s, you know, but the channel there are there’s data that shows that every, you know, hub spot ran a study and show that when you increase the amount of fields that you ask a person to complete, you end up over about two to three fields total. You get a fifty percent drop off. Oh, so it’s that high so And once you get to eight, which is many of what he’s talking about, right, you’re down to its well under single digits of conversion rate, which is a dismal. If you think about like you have a really strong contents from the person was into it, they made their way to your donation return until you ask them for their blood type. Yeah, I I also will say one of my pet peeves that, you know, non-profits continuously asked people for the same information over and over and over and over again. Right? So you know who this constituent is? You’ve sent them this email communication. You already know who they are there in your database, and you ask them to re identify all that information again. For what? Like why? You know, when you go to Netflix and you have your subscription to Netflix, they’re not asking you. Or if you’re in Dollar Shave Club and you decide to get shaving cream on top of your razor, no one’s asking you. By the way, could you tell us like what you’re you are in? Yeah. Like right? No, we know. Okay, save it and stop asking for repetition. All right? Yeah. Consolidate. I mean, consolidate fields as much as possible. Don’t ask for the same inspiration twice. What’s essential? I mean, I’m all right, so I’m thinking of the quintessential, you know, the Amazon checkout. It’s been so long since I did. My first time was on a purchase like everybody else. I obviously can’t remember that, but what? What, What? What, what? What’s actually essential. So I mean so in my view and the view that informed to give lively donation platform when we first launched it, it was nothing more than identifying information about that donor. First name last. Actually, in the very early days, not even first name and last name email address, payment information. That was it. You know, now there’s a little bit more in terms of full name, just enough to make sure that we’re doing receding the right way and all of the all of the tax deductible benefits, by the way. So payment information that includes the billing address You have to have the billing and not include Okay, so rate. So let’s get really specific. So it’s It is literally first name, last name, email address and credit card information, meaning nothing more than the number, the expiration date and the CVC code so you can process the donation without without telling you that’s not required. That’s right. And, uh, you know, one of our favorite partners that cosmic is another organization called touchpoint, which is amazing. You give them just too little little tip bits of information like about Tony. We’d find out what kind of bagel heeds you know on Wednesday because they can pull back all that information for for only thirty cents per constituent and give you everything about them. What property they own, what, what non-profits They give to their address everything, and so that’s One of the reasons why we like to give lively platform is you can take as little information as possible, get that donation and then just pay thirty cents. Because if you have drop off, that goes, you know, down fifty percent. When you’ve asked more than three questions, why not ask just as few questions as possible and go pay thirty cents for that information somewhere else? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you cannot go, and that’s getting into very sophisticated strategies in terms of augmenting date. Instead of asking for things up front, find other ways to get at it. You know, there are social networks that have advertising networks that have ways to link. For example, email address is back, too. Uh, that social, so that you don’t necessarily need to ask them. So then you learn more about that donor to those networks through your own work, rather than asking and risking the abandonment. That’s right, just the frustration do of it. Okay, um, go ahead, go ahead. I was going to say I think David should speak a little bit about, you know, the digital wallets, and that’s that is absolutely game changing when it comes to best practice. So take it from here. Thanks. So and we’LL get a mascot non-profit radio things there latto longest running part kapin most listen to podcasts. It’s also in order Mobile off deferential and generous welchlin the mike is on. Yeah, yeah, B b cut. Well, good to have Tony back on the show. I just like so we, you know, hear Give life. So that another session, actually that that I’m leading called digital while it’s so hot right now and in that session will talk about digital wallets. The concept. I mean, digital arts have been around for a long time, but in examples of them are PayPal. Apple pay, Google pay the’s are one click payment options that have in them a variety of security protections and data that gets easily shared without having to ask that door faster. Just talking about All right, so there’s no entry. What? You’ve entered a credit card once you’ve entered your address once, and you’re just using it over and over again in in this example of donation form on. They’re incredibly powerful, and they are people use them. The level of, you know, penetration of mobile wallets. is increasing increasing at all age groups, but particularly with younger foe. But in non-profits well, very few have actually have ever had access to it. So our platform has digital wall So you’LL see See it in. For example, If you go to malala dot org’s that’s one of our partners right on their home page You’LL see if you have a wallet on apple pear Groupe browser that you’re on you’LL see those buttons right there and you can make that donation very quickly If you’re on your phone, you’LL see it there. But most other platforms are not offering that service or they’re just now offering that service eso And but this is a service that we’re used to write. So think about buying a cup of coffee at a on using square and tapping with apple pay. You’re not. I also think like it would be it would be troubling if we didn’t at least mention this best practice for me. Commerce, which is the classic upsell, right? So I think one of the areas that I’ve seen the wall it works so well is when you’ve got you’ve got a recurring donorsearch, right, you’ve got this person who’s a member of your tribe, right? And one of our client team, Rubicon, stands out. Our mercy corps stands out where you have these sustaining donors who give monthly right. Then you have this urgent appeal that comes up. And because you have a really robots content strategy and your quantifying the impact of their recurring gift, you send them a text message that is a simple is them putting their thumbprint on to authorize an additional one time contribution for a wildfire in, you know, Northern California or whatever. It is incredibly effective for up selling for those who are on a subscription model a CZ. Well, as you know, you attend an event or whatever it is, it’s an easy way to take that best practice for me. Commerce, which is your existing customers, are your best potential you know, customers for for an additional service. Yeah, yeah, and those you know, those buttons should be front and center. So no ineffective donation form to reduce abandonment shows you easy ways to pay up front and suggests the best way to pay right on, right on that first screen. So, you know, looking at a donation from that works. Well, is one that may say you’re making a twenty five dollar donation monthly. Tap this one button and you’re done. You’re you’ve not even moved beyond that first page. You’ve really not even asked any additional questions of the user because the answer’s air embedded inside of a digital wallet payment s o very low friction. Easy to make donations much more secure. One of the objections of her, uh, from’s arounds streamlining like we’re talking about is the preservation of credit credit card information. Because then that then you’re implicated with Peace PCL complaining PC exactly that So that an acronym fell? No, not when I do it. Ok, ok. Thank you. Thank you. It’s personal. Personal credit information watching your mike is going down. It’s already been slowed down. You hear yourself? But no one else will. Yeah, I notice you’re only asking David questions. You know, I don’t not only get to speak. He says, Can I say something? I, uh, thought I should mention here is because Tony is not going to ask me. All right, so now you’re now you’re in your you’re implicating PC I compliance requirements, But if you’re accepting, you use digital wallets, you’re not. You’re not personally. You think the organization is not preserving the the information right? It’s the I don’t know what it’s called the host of the host of the wallet. Yeah, exactly what they were getting into the payment process. Non-profit. The payment process apparently doesn’t have to save the Yeah, I mean, I hope. And if I I hope no one listening to this who’s who is working for a nonprofit is ever dealing directly with PC high compliance like they should be using a vendor who is shielding them from that level of risk because that’s incredibly risky and a lot of a bureaucratic burden in order to get PC I compliant. So the payment processors under the give lively platform are stripe papal. Those air both PC I complaint writers in the case and in all cases platform like you’ve lively, never has access to a person’s donor-centric our information directly and through a wallet. What’s really smart about wallets is how they hide. Even they create one time use credit card numbers. Essentially, that’s an easy way to think about it. One time use numbers that he used every time you make a purchase so that there’s no one number goes down or gets, you know, used inappropriately, and it’s not affecting any other element of your credit history. So it’s secure on hidden from both the payment provider themselves as well as a platform for writer. No, certainly the non-profit. Okay, man, I’m gonna give you a break, actually, and I feel bad. I don’t really feel bad, but I’ll say I feel bad about the way I’ve treated you. So I’m going to give you the going to give you the wrap up because we just have, like, a twenty or thirty seconds or so let you clue how generous cosmic from clolery Thank you. Uh, I would say for any non profit organization who is out there, think about to yourself. What is the experience that you did? You really just turn? No. Okay. So paranoid. I don’t take my word for it, I guess. Think about the experience that you have with the brands that you love and think about how you feel when you’re asked lots of questions that are unnecessary and and try and channel that when you’re setting up your your donation form or when you’re selecting your vendor toe work with to process your donations because it’s that that’s the standard. The standard is not other non-profits. The standard is not your system that you’ve been using for three decades, and it works because it’s what we always used. The standard is how we interact with brands on a daily basis and how we spend our money on a daily basis, and it’s really important to think about that. Those brands have raised the bar your donors are experiencing that that high level of, of, of, of purchase flood. He’s he’s thank you, and they’re coming to expect it from you. That’s right, Yeah, Unless unless they abandon the process, that’s right and, you know, and then give Lively’s case, just plug us for a second. You know, we don’t charge money for our for access to our platform, so we’re enabling non-profits use digital wallet type technology and have that access and not have to pay for it. And I think that’s something unique, and I hope people take advantage of that. All right. It was shameless self promotion, but allowed with bilich thinking, I feel like I’m with the two Smart through smart promoter from cookies. Permit me to say Young Young Seo’s fifty six. I can’t say that. Alright on DH They are Matt Scott’s Yo of Cosmic and David de Para Lisa, CEO of Give Lively, and this is Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ntcdinosaur non-profit Technology Conference This interview Like all our nineteen ninety seon reviews brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’re free. Webinar came and went. It was tips and tricks for your nine. Ninety. You missed it. No problem. Watch the archive. Yes, the archive learned how to use your nine ninety as a marketing tool. The thing is so widely available from GuideStar Charity Navigator Attorneys general, Probably your own website. Let the nine ninety promote your work. That’s what the webinar helps you with. Wagner cps dot com Quick seminars, Then go to April. Now, time for Tony’s Take two be the one. This was inspired by a re union that I attended and had a hand in Ah of Air Force of former Air Force missile ears. We were all working in the Reagan years on Minuteman. Two nuclear missiles were all missile operators at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri, and we got together way left there in the late eighties. We’ve been together a couple times, but only eyes our third time. So ah, lot of people haven’t been seen for years, and some even never even came to their other reunions. But the idea of everyone coming together, um, sharing old stories coming together like like it had been just a week. And for some, it’s been thirty years since we’ve seen them, but that common bond. So I encourage youto get people together from the different phases of your life, whether it’s elementary school, high school, college, whatever. Grad school, military neighborhood. If you’ve got ah, if you’ve got this, I don’t know. Affinity group sounds kind of formal, but if you’ve got these group of people, these folks who know each other and shared something, it’s such fun to get them together. It’s rewarding. It’s gratifying. It’s just it feels like being a kid again. Do it, do it. That’s what the video is about and you’LL find that video at tony martignetti dot com That is Tony’s Take two Now that a hundred percent of your donors complete their online gif ts u want to welcome them the right way? Here’s that from twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen NTC non-profit Technology conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. This nineteen ninety si interview, like all of ours, is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me are brenholz homes and Chrissy hyre. They’re both with Chapman, cubine and Husi. Brenna, seated next to me is vice president for digital services and Chrissy is vice president Innovation Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back to each of you. You, you and Brenna has disclosed that thes these interviews have a secondary purpose for her. Chrissy, I’m sorry. Kinda married. That’s not Christy. Christy has disclosed there’s they have a dating. They have dating power. They do so definitely. Come on the show. Yeah, because your your dates will google you. They will find your non-profit radio interview. Yeah, and when they do that? I want you to inquire about the host. I’m really not interested in what they thought of your performance, What they think about the host and then let me know if it’s positive on Lee was not positive. It’s not positive. Silence is best. Just carry on with your date after that ostomel of that. That’s it. But we’re not talking about dating. We’re talking about making them well, we are actually making love you. Yeah, welcoming donors the right way is your your session topic. Um so, Chrissy, what a zoho overview. What are non-profits not getting quite right about welcoming? Let’s start with first time donors and will evolve in the conversation from there. But what we’re not doing quite right. Yeah, So I mean, you know, Brenna says this really Well, actually, but you really only get one chance to make a first impression. And so one of the things that a lot of organizations don’t do particularly well is showing folks exactly how much they care about the gift that folks are giving to them. And so, you know, one of the things that we really focused on our session today was thinking through. What are the ways that you connect people back to your mission back to the work that you’re doing, making them really understand the impact of the gift that they’ve just given and building that connection in that relationship so that they’re ready to take that to the next level, so to speak and give you another gift? Okay, on Brenda, how do we get started thinking about this process that we have for for donors? Yeah, think about everything from multi-channel perspective very much, not just the channel they gave the gift in, but really talking to them in multitude of ways. Because, as you know, everybody’s over saturated in lots and lots of media on DH non-profits have to do more and more to stay top of mind, get keep that good feeling moving forward to maintain that share of wallet as well. So the first thing that you start with, like especially for online donors, very appropriate here for Auntie Si is making sure that you’re customizing the confirmation page and the auto respond or email to that donation. A lot of it is just like the default setting. Non-profits never remembered a change on just updating that can go very long way customizing the confirmation page and the acknowledgement letter that yeah latto respondent your mail going a little bit further and adding direct mail into the mix by sending your online donors direct mail. Acknowledgement letter goes even more like We love that wonderful. Now I did have a panel just maybe an hour or so ago. I want half ago. That said, you know you want to keep your donation process streamlined, Ask a few questions possible now, in order to get the the direct mail address. That’s going to be another level of questions you have to ask. Well, no, You mean you pretty much can’t make a credit card donation without putting in the billing address anyways, so it’s already part of the foreign fields to process again. OK, well, not according to those two guys. I guess it depends on the platform. Two friends on your processor, I guess. Sure, right? Yeah, they were saying they were pretty clear that you do not have to ask for address. You can, but you don’t have to. The majority of non-profit websites today do they do rice. But their point was, that’s not the best idea. Right, But But now so well. But this is not in conflict, right? We gotta bring this tio black and white. Everything not so clear. So, you know, I mean, you’re saying that’s a lycan ideal process. Ideal practice. Acknowledging an online gift, I’LL find through the mail offline. Okay, there could be another way of acknowledging that online gift could be through phone. A phone number could be another way. Okay, uh, Wes life calls. Auto House. Okay. Latto caught was latto calls. Yes, was a pre recorded call very inexpensive that, like the executive director of the organization, can record. And you send that to all of your new donors to welcome them to the organism. Thank them and welcome them. Yep. Okay. Interesting. Um, okay, Uh, I’m not sure. So we’re way. Start with audit of our current process. Always a place to start. Okay. What are we looking for? What? Some common sticking points and bad practices that we want to be conscious. Seldman are loaded. So we’re looking at, like, what already goes out, right? What’s the default? So again, for online donors, there is the default confirmation page. That’s usually very receipt transactional basis that has all of the semi critical information from the processors point of view. But it’s not very donor-centric on DH. It certainly doesn’t show the impact that the gift is going to make for the non-profit who’s receiving the donation. Same thing with that otter responder email. It’s generally plain text, very receipt based. Well, we want to do is build out stewardship touches like turned these receipts into nurtured opportunities so that people are bonding with the organization and moving past that transactional relationship. Same thing with their direct mail receipts. You know, most organizations send them out, at least to their direct male donors, if not also to their online donors. But you can improve upon the look and feel of that package, make it really stand out in the mailbox so that it doesn’t look like one of your fund-raising appeals. Or it doesn’t look like a bill from, you know, your health insurance company or anything else right on DH. Just show that love right up front. No one has ever said, Stop thanking me like in the history of effort, So that’s something that we’re constantly trying to reinforce with that, and then the newer, like the newer channels, all of the innovation with SMS and auto calls, or even live calling like those air usually add on so they wouldn’t show up in your audit. But they’re nice iterations to go above and beyond on DK and be done with volunteers and things like that out of my Mahler’s remembers. I love a working board. Yeah, put him to work, Christie. What you wantto I mean, I think that that’s exactly right. Everything Brenna said. I think the one thing to consider and your audit as well is making sure is, Brennan noted, at the top of our conversation about that multi-channel experience. So just because someone is giving online, don’t assume they don’t want to hear from you offline. You know, a lot of us almost all of our media interactions are happening in on a screen. And so to actually get that piece of paper is something that people really remember really means a lot to them, and it’s significant. The other thing is, don’t be afraid to reach people on their phone to think them. You know, a lot of people have sort of a bad taste in their mouth about what telemarketing is. Nobody’s gonna be upset if you call them to say thank you. And nobody’s gonna be upset if you text them to say thank you. And if you text them to say thank you, they’re definitely gonna see and they’re definitely gonna remember it. Okay, Um, so after we have our audit, what’s our next step? We got it. We got to start improving improving our practices. Copy. Maybe a little bit of time. Couple steps in time. Your creative Seymour Brennan. Yeah. So it’s, you know, it is about building up the that content into both being relevant for that specific donorsearch for Don’t hurt I ppe Did they make a one time gift at what dollar value did that dollar value kicked them into e-giving circle of some level. And then you need to acknowledge that in a separate way, you can also use the type of appeal that they responded Teo to enforce. Thank you. Copy as well. So like, did they respond to something about puppy mills versus something about horse meat? Like having that content flow through into the acknowledgement program and into the welcome Siri’s afterwards to keep them going tohave a next action opportunity eyes A fantastic way to start. Is it right that our first time donorsearch retention read? Uh, non-profit wide is like around twenty five percent. We typically see closer to a third to being healthy, but oh, I’m going down. I’m citing how bad it is. Yeah, it has been going down is going down. It is going on the wrong direction we got. And that’s honestly, like a lot of that data is coming out around the last few quarters of twenty twenty eighteen. So there’s a lot of reasons right now as we kick off year to start really thinking about how you’re bonding people to the organizations that you’re fund-raising for. All right. All right. Um, we’ll also talk about designing a multi-channel welcome and nurture nurture. Siri’s is that Is that basically what we’re talking about? Our nurture. Siri’s a little bit. I mean, I think I think the acknowledgement process should be part of that nurture mint, right. It’s the first interaction for a lot of organizations post that gift. The first outbound communications and a lot of ways s oh, it’s a natural bridge to the welcome Siri’s and kind of steward that stewarding them throughout that relationship. So longfield we should not be setting anything and forgetting about it. Everything needs to be very conscious decisions about what copy we’re sending to who, what content they’re getting when on the touchpoint. I mean, all of the data that we have shows that the more of those pieces of touch our personally identifiable information right, like whether it’s postal address or email address or phone number, the more of those contact point that we have on for a constituent hyre their retention will be and the hyre their value will be to the organization on a lifetime level. So, like while it might be easier to not get that postal address, I want that postal address. There’s so much more value. Okay? Yeah, You know what? There there are other Point was don’t do it in the donation. All right, that’s in the donation on the donation pages. Waken ask for that later on that they may be right after the gift is made. Would you like to share your your mail? Now that makes it option over. Okay, Right. But then it raises the question of why, right? You which you have to have a good answer, would like to be able to think we’d like to be able to send you something. I don’t know. All right, but, you know, incentive based. Thank you. They’re always like people love swag. So you could do that. That’s definitely an office sticker and done in Dustin. Yeah, okay. What they done Injustice e. Did you get dates with the kind of lines like that? This’s kind of witty banter like that. Future dates or watching? Amazing. Oh, my God. You’re turning right there. Okay, so I just realized I just put two and two together. You that’s gonna happen in the future, too, is not only in the past. Oh, my God. And this is going to be more relevant. More, more. It’s a more recent about making love you. So in other words, what do you think of the host? That’s what I want to know. Okay. Uh, Christy date. What do you think of the host? Keep which it’s Tony. As tony martignetti dot com is the best way. Or you can use the contact page at tony martignetti dot com from and I never hear from you again. I think the time you said I think, think of the time I’m saving you. Thank you so much if they come, if they beating you up, I feel about you know if if they make it through over this threshold, right and you know that it’s it’s really more than yeah, it’s more than superficial thinking past this. They say they watch the whole video like we haven’t gotten into a ton of things, but I can try to learn more. We’LL see Next time just roughly halfway in thistle happened roughly twelve minute mark. So? So if they hear this, they making twelve minute mark. You know, I think there’s potential definitely beyond the average. Definitely all right time for our last break text to give. Get their five part email. Many course to dispel myths around mobile giving. You know donations don’t have to go through the donors phone company that puts a cap on GIF ts. There’s a smarter way with no cap. Mobile giving does not have to be limited to single or double digit gif ts. To get the email. Many course. Dispel the myths you text NPR to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. We’ve got lots more time for welcome your donors the right way. Okay, so we’re, like only halfway in. So what else do we need to talk about if you don’t? Your panel yet? We did it. So one third, seventy five minutes. Talking about what else? What else? On Let’s broaden it a little bit now. So not on ly first time donors, but volunteermatch comes a donor. Small, small gift donorsearch a mid level or higher level donor. What do we need to do to make them love us? Chrissy? Yeah. So I think this is actually really great question. So thank you for asking. It s o. You know, essentially, I think that there are ways Tio Tio integrate people into new parts of our organization. I think one of the easiest things for folks to understand is upgrading folks to monthly giving. And how do you start to think those people in a way that feels really special and bonds them to that program you already know? They’re exceptionally bonded to the work that you’re doing. And so how do you start to think them in a way that makes them feel like, Oh, my gosh. Now we’re part of an even more special piece of this community, right? So, you know, in our session, we talked a lot about you know, when you, for example, are thinking a monthly donor. Often do you want to thank them? Do you wantto Brenda calls it waking the bear. You know, where you kind of like your calling out to them? Do you want to tell them? Every month you’re giving me a monthly gift, and then, you know, where do you want? Oh, yeah. You know, you want to take him every month. I mean, so there we were talking about it also talked about splitting the baby there because there are philosophical differences and conversations there. I think the that standard used to be Don’t wake the bear, right? Don’t remind them that they’re giving every month they will leave. Oh, my gosh, that can’t be it anymore. We all have so many subscriptions in our life, whether it’s Netflix or Lulu or you know, all of these things, that if they don’t feel good about it, then when the card expires or is stolen or core compromised not going to bother and I drop them might drop it, right? So So we had some people in this action that we’re talking about quarterly, right? Maybe kind of following up in a different way, a different time period. So it’s not every month, but I think you can do monthly as long as you are using it as a nurture touchpoint. It’s not just a receipt like you don’t want anything you give to your donors to just be a throwaway effort. If you’re taking the time to send it, you wanted to actually mean something to them. So if it’s literally just a receipt, how much value does that really provide? Like not a lot. OK, so something impactful for that month. Way reached. Yeah, I don’t know. Nothing’s coming to mind, but that’s why you’re the consultants in that. And I’m the consultant plan e-giving. Yeah, you know, one of the go ahead. You know, I’m just flushing out why I don’t have an answer. I don’t no more. No more detailed needed on that. I don’t have a suggestion, I should say, Well, one of the things that you know could be a really impactful way to leverage that Thank you. Moment is to kind of look at your sustainers file in winter, people the most likely to fall off of your file and then take that opportunity to do, like an exceptional thankyou. So we see you lose a lot after between one, three and four, right? Exactly. So maybe that’s the month where you send that hand written note. That’s like we know you are. We love you. We see you right? If you already you’re sending tote bags or calendars in your acquisition or something like that. Leveraging that with a special note two two sustainers at the quarter mark for the six month mark way have clients that do, like all out at your anniversary. Your thank you for being here for one year with us, you know, making it about them. There was miles so now and then again, tying it to the impact and, like people want to make impact and they want to feel important. And that’s true whether this is their first ten dollars gift or their thousand dollar gift or their one million dollar gift. And so figuring out the way that you say thank you that feels like they’re making that difference, that that matters. That’s part of a good donor experience, you know, And I think that carries through whether it’s sustainers or like an event volunteer who’s becoming a donor for the first time. That’s a different level of engagement with the organization and the fact that they have that history already with you eyes very powerful. And so, if you can reference that relationship in the content as well, that will go much further and building strengthening that relationship in the long term. Um, a lot of this subsumed in what we’re talking about is having these systems systems in place on DH, constantly tweaking them. Voice just cracked like I’m a fourteen year old is coming twelve fourteen. You gotta have these systems in place and somebody will be monitoring them. Christie, to your point, you know you can’t just set it and forget it. Or one of you said that I’m sorry, whose you bring up, but, um okay, so who’s responsible for these systems? Is this is this is in the development to Development department depends on the non-profit. It’s definitely a collaboration between, like some level and development marketing each non-profit is configured in a different, slightly different way. So, like, who owns things would change, But yeah, the data is really important on and having a two directional or multidirectional sink of key data components so that you can condition allies content based on those relationships from other channels. In other words, like sinking between your cr m and your email Exactly. Your texture responded. Yep. Yeah, and vice versa to write. If we are sending those offline acknowledgements toe online donors, you need that level of information. Ideally, there’s some source codes in there. So you know what sort of relationship they had with you before Andi, you know what sort of appeal? Our issue they came in on. So again, Was it dog me? Are you know, brovey meals are? Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that’s all very important. You don’t have the infrastructure setting that I always like. You know, you got to get your house in order before you invite people over, right? And that’s more about acquisition costs. But data is also super important. Like you can’t. You can start and then build and have a plan to scale because everybody can’t do everything right away. But you got to start with clean data. So can I ask a question? Is that not OK in this setting? Okay, So beat you up so much. How could I possibly say no to im those now, everyone? Yeah, Kristie hyre non-profit. So, like, what would you say about, like, not letting am not letting great be the enemy of good. So, like, invokes air. Just like we we don’t have the bandwidth for all of the data collection or all of the data sank. Like, where? Where is that starting point? Yeah, well, I mean, I think it depends on where you’re getting most of your gifts into, Like, what channel? You want to start with the focus on right, Because bang for the buck. If you’re If most of your gifts are checks in the mail, let’s focus on those confirmation acknowledgement letters, the receives and and the welcome kit direct mail package kind of offline pieces. So you don’t have to worry about the email side of the world if the date is not playing nicely right away. Vice versa. Obviously, here at ntcdinosaur mary-jo online focused, you start on the online site and Luckily with the online stuff you usually have the the thinks like you don’t need to sing because your email marketing system is in the same system. Is your donation processing system doesn’t have to be right plugging You could have a husband spoke solutions at that point, too. But for most of them, they are most of our clients, especially so you can excuse me. You can live also going over, yeah, latto happening at this table. A lot of personal latto personal, something momentous person and not a cheap hormones. So you can. You can create a somewhat cohesive donor experience with siloed channels. It is possible it just takes a lot more like work on an ongoing basis. In Official, it’s very inefficient. So I get out. You know, we talk about how much work it takes to set up the process in the beginning, to get a multi-channel like really integrated surround sound campaign happening. But if you’re not doing that, you’re putting in the leg work all the time to make sure that you don’t sound like two different organizations. An email indirectly, that’s very bad practice. Yeah, have some of the questions were some of the questions you got in your session that you thought were particularly interesting or I don’t know if they could be provocative, but interesting is good. Yeah. WeII did get questions about, like, just testing. What tide of creative treatments. People should focus their time on to test on DH. Tarsem. It depends, obviously, depends on the channel, but I think a lot of it for anything that will email and direct mail. Specifically, it’s trying to get people into the content in the first place. So whether it’s your subject line and send her name and email or your teaser on your outer envelope in the mail, both of those air very similar from a user experience standpoint on their very low bar. Easy tweak tests. Teammate teasers on outer envelopes. They work. Oh, they’re so important. They do? Yeah, that’s a good one example of a couple of good ones. I mean, for our for acknowledgements. Thank you. Gift receipt and close. Like, very clear. Okay, this is not an appeal, right? All right, we’ve got for acquisition. Oh, God, we’re off. We’re off on your own time. But I’ve always wondered about this, because when I see these things, and it’s not at all what I do know. What’s a good Christy? What’s a good acquisition? Uh, what do you call these on? The outer sabelo Theo. Good acquisition. What kind of depends on what’s inside or the organization. But anything that talks about matching gift urgent. Well, urgent. Open immediately that work. Sure, people respond to that Second notice reminder. Special gift enclosed for free gift. Yeah, free gift and clothes. I could notice that I didn’t notice. We’Ll stamp like reminders. They have the stamp it rough. It looks like it was damned. Yeah, Looks like it was a hand written. Oh, anything. Anything that looks like a human touched it. We call it the power of the paper clip because like, you can’t machine that. So if it anything that feels like humans have touched it will automatically get more attention. But it is a machine printing that Oh, yeah, but it looks like you’re just trying to create the experience of life came off their desk. But you people believe that mean yes, we’re not wear not I do believe this stuff like a human actually wrote that or somebody’s coming. Somebody had a stamp on ink pad and a stamp. I think it depends on the size of the organization. Like somebody’s probably not going to believe it as easily from AARP, but they will believe it from their local U S P c A. Well, so it just depends. Yeah. Alright. I’m really surprised that second notice open open urgently. Renewal is a very powerful word as well. So having renew does well yeah, renew your membership right on the teeth. Er, something like that. Okay, we’re hearing everything. You’re turning those. The winner was the other one Free. Free? Yeah. Just just a word. Free Well attached to something so free. Some very powerful words. Just free. Just wait. Just wait, OK? We got another, like, two minute and a half or so two minutes. What? What else? What else? Questions. Other question. They were good. Oh, gosh. You know, I feel like a lot of people had questions. Agent about sort of what it meant to take their online. Thank you. Experience offline. Dahna Few. There was a lot of questions about printing and paper. Yeah, favorite. Everyone’s favorite. Well, cause some of its first. So some organizations like conservation organizations are very paper free on DH. So but having the numbers that actually show that people who give to receive packages to acknowledgment gifts are better donors than people who don’t can make the case to the board members or to your CFO or whoever else that, like we really should think about this at some level. Maybe we’re not mailing every online donor. Maybe it’s not five dollar donors or ten dollar donors, but maybe at the fifty dollar donors level, those folks are like, worth that added investment. So having that numbers to back it up is really helpful, and any time you could decrease the time to second gift is huge on. Typically, most non-profits see one gift a year on average, whatever time of year that is. If it’s not sustainers. If you khun, change that twelve months between first and second gift to two months between first and second gift because people you have a greater lifetime value and hyre retention we’re seeing, I mean, especially with new donors, because they’re giving habits haven’t been cemented. Get we’re seeing anywhere from forty five to sixty five percent hyre retention rates across the board and hyre values. So it’s amazing. Okay. Okay. Christy, I’m gonna give you last words, like, fifteen seconds of motivation about, you know, making them love you. Oh, gosh. Well, that’s a lot of pressure. I know. You know, I think that if you don’t know where to start, just say thank you. Say thank you every way you can say it sincerely and say in a way that really means a lot to the folks who have given you their time, their money, their actions, whatever that looks like. It really goes a long way to improve your donor’s experience. All right, that was Chrissy hyre. She’s vice president of Innovation, Chapman, cubine and Husky. And sitting next to me is Brenda Homes, Vice president, Digital services Also at Chapman cubine, Cassie. And you are with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen Auntie Si twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. This interview, Like all of ours this year brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Come see. Ch is in sponsoring brovey radio. That is a great question to bring them when you bring that back to back to back to the main office way. We’LL do that. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you. Next week, Google grants with the head of Google. Add grants Michelle her Tato, also from nineteen. Auntie Si. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Pursuant online Tools for small and midsize non-profits. Data driven technology enabled Tony dahna em a slash pursuing capital P. Wagner CP is guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made Easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A Creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternate network e-giving Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network? Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned Potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. 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Nonprofit Radio for April 26, 2019: Strategic Knowledge Management & Ethics In Your Prospect Research

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Dar Veverka & Janice Chan: Strategic Knowledge Management
Documents. Data. Projects. Governance. Training. They’re all components of knowledge management and our panel from 19NTC explains how to manage properly. Both returning, they’re Dar Veverka from Urban Teachers and Janice Chan at Shift and Scaffold.





Maria Semple

Maria Semple: Ethics In Your Prospect Research
There’s a lot of personal and private info available on your donors, volunteers and prospects.  Your researcher’s job is to find it. Where are the boundaries? How do you protect it? Maria Semple takes on these and other potential landmines. She’s our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder.





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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with a case of stati O p Jia if you kicked me in the butt with the idea that you missed today’s show Strategic knowledge management documents, data projects, governance, training They’re all components of knowledge management and our panel from nineteen ntcdinosaur planes. How to manage properly both returning there. Dar Viv arika from Urban teachers and Janice Chan at Shift in Scaffold and Ethics in your Prospect Research There’s a lot of personal and private info available about all of us and your donors. Your researchers job is to find it. Where are the boundaries? How do you protect it? Maria Simple takes on these and other potential landmines. She’s our prospect research contributor and the Prospect Finder. I’m Tony Steak to be the one we’re sponsored by Pursuant Full service fund-raising Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to four four four nine nine nine Here is strategic knowledge management from the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. You know what that is? It’s the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. You know that we’re in Oregon, Portland, Oregon at the convention center. You know that all of our nineteen ninety si interviews are brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me now are Darby Burka and Janice Chan. Dar is director of information technology and at urban teachers seated next to me and Janice Chan is consultant at Shift in Scaffold. Welcome back to the show. Both of you think you can be back. Thank you very much. Let’s so we’re talking about strategic knowledge management Your your workshop topic Strategic knowledge Management Don’t stop halfway. Janice. What? What? Halfway. What? What? What’s the problem here? Why do we need this session? Uh, my dar actually chose the name of the sessions and maybe you want to talk about that. Okay, Well, either won or you go for a lot of places. People think of knowledge management as solely just We put some documents and SharePoint. We organize the things on our file server and that’s it. They stop there. But that’s really just a foundational piece for knowledge management, and it’s really just a small part of it. So our session was going over the other things you need to consider instead of just we filed our documents. Okay, Janice, how would you know? Let’s make sure everybody has a common understanding of terms. What we need, what we mean when we say knowledge management. So this is, you know, when you’re in an organization, everybody needs some type of information. People have a lot of experience and expertise, but it’s it’s often trapped in people’s heads or we have the file somewhere, but nobody could find them. So I just end up asking darl the things. And so how do you make it so that the right and the people confined the right information at the right time when they need it on DH in the way that they needed? So they’re not spending an hour digging through unorganized sheer drive when we could have just organized and they’re like, Oh, I know howto Advil unt ears to our serum because it’s in the volunteermatch judgment folder and that, you know, like it’s in a place that makes sense. Teo Awesome to our organization. Okay, okay. I said, uh, the So the halfway point is the documents in a share point. And that’s where a lot of people are stopping but trouble? Yeah, a lot of folks just think that’s all you do, and it’s You need to go beyond that and get buy-in from the rest of your organization and think about the other ways that knowledge flow. A lot of knowledge flows through organizations, and it’s not just sitting in your SharePoint drive and you need to deal with How do you manage all that? A lot of places waste a lot of time. What are what are the other elements of knowledge? Management? Um, knowledge management comes into play with data governance. Were all data driven organizations these days. So you’ve got everything sitting in your databases. Why isn’t why are people dealing with processes around that? For knowledge management, you’ve got project management. You do you know these these built out tech projects that cost you thousands of dollars and nobody does the documentation or things about thinks about building things in. Like, for instance, whether the examples we gave it our session. If you’re redesigning a website you’ve already thought about who’s gonna be maintaining that. Whose job is that? After the fact? What do you need the vendor to do? What type of documentation. But people don’t build that into the project. They think about it, but he never actually get it into the formal project. So that’s all part of knowledge management. Okay, eyes, they’re more generous. And also things like training, right. Like when we have new staff, we think we need to train them. We need to onboard them, we think actively about that stuff. And then we don’t always think of it after That person is no longer the new employees. And so we don’t keep that going. And we lose a lot that way because things change right? We don’t necessary. Maybe updated as a star. Kind of referred, right? Like we know we made the how to guide. Great. We never have to update it. But that process of balls because we realized hey, this doesn’t work out as well as we thought. So now we’ve changed it, right? We’re applying that learning that can get loss of It’s not documented when that person who made that improvement walks out the door. You know they find your job or whatever or, you know, even just things like, you know, when people leave right, we don’t always capture that institutional knowledge. My people, when people leave and we’re just like all right, give us your email account password on like you know it. So making sure that that stays within the organization also that it just feeds back into the world, you know, sort of like when you manage a project and you kind of do be brief sometimes after a project. Hopefully you debrief. Does that go anywhere? Because if you have that meeting, then it’s only in the minds of people who were at that meeting. And that doesn’t That’s a lot of knowledge that maybe it’s useful to other people. Normalization will be used for moving forward, and it can easily get lost. We’Ll capture it. I presume you spent a lot of time in the session or have you had your session? OK, you’re dahna downside. Okay, Talking about resource is tools tools that we can use for for knowledge management going beyond documents. So let’s spend a good amount of time doing that. Janice, you want to start with, um, with a tool? Sure. So I think one of the things that way talked a little bit about there. Two types of knowledge is the explicit were just like here you do Step one. And here you do Step two, and usually the task knowledge is sort of like, you know, when you’re baking and you’re like what this done look like? Great. And it’s hard to figure that out sometimes. Like, you know, data governance. You’re like, How do I define those? Like, What does this mean? Why does this number look like not what I was expecting? And I think a lot of times we don’t always have the language. We don’t always have that shared language. Tio have that discussion. So when you map out a process right, if you do that diagram of like here’s, here’s what happens. Here’s which systems are connected to each other, and somebody’s like I never realized that right, Like that’s not the model that I have in my head of how these things fit together, and I had these other pieces that are not on the diagram that you just wrote. The act of like making those diagrams is is you know, Wei Tau have that conversation, get that knowledge out of people’s heads and get a documented right than other people can see. That s so There are a lot of tools for that. Like really simple. I’m sorry. Taxonomy. Taxonomy is another. Another helpful thing I think about autonomy is Oh, no Texas. Tow the grant like different things. Teo also think about it. Buy-in named Tulip zoho. I really like like paddle. It is really, like, cheap. Easy. It’s not made for that necessarily. But you can use it. Pagnoni. It’s really it’s men for teacher. A lot of teachers use it, I think. But it’s free. It’s You don’t have to, like, learn how to use it. There’s not like a steep learning curve, which is helpful for diagrams. You’re like, you know, you can just do pencil on paper, but you know, good, more advanced toward, You know you’re losing charts and all of that or more advanced. But they take longer to learn how to use, so that vanish now. So I’ve got a I’ve got a question. It may be embarrassingly basic, but we ask anyway. All right, So now if we have created this, uh, sort of this organizational chart or this this flow of this chart that in paddle it how do we How do we now preserve that so that people confined It is, It is. It is a simple is the shared drive on a network. I think it depends on what it is and what it’s for, right? Like if it’s hears we’re documenting our process for maybe managing volunteers. Or maybe this is how you make updates on your way you might share. You might save it wherever you might be in your share. Dr. It’s wherever you have your documentation, which honestly, should be wherever people go, because if people don’t go to it, then you have to do that whole, like trying to get people to go to. No place is just more on top of more like it’s just not gonna happen when they already are exactly exactly wherever they are. Just just make it work for there. Okay, okay. Time for a break. Pursuant. the art of first Impressions. How to combine strategy analytics and creative to capture new capture, captivate its, actually captivate new donors and keep them coming back. It’s their e book. It’s on donor acquisition and how to make a smashing first impression. You will find it on the listener landing page at tony dot m. A slash pursuing capital p for please, of course. Now let’s go back to strategic knowledge management. Another tool door you can share with you a couple things I can think about. We demonstrated some visual tools, just having simple visual guides to guide people on what systems do what we demonstrated several of those yesterday, and we also know what kind of systems are we talking about? A different knowledge systems. Maybe you’ve got databases. Maybe you’ve got documents, shares, maybe a process. Documents for the finance system live somewhere else. How our users supposed to know what system Teo use if they don’t even know what systems that you have so doing visual guides for where do I find this? Or where do I put that simple stuff that people can literally stick on? The fridge is in their offices, so people see that constantly as a reminder. We demonstrated some landing pages in Portales. A lot of people think of of that is just a way to get into the document management system. But you could do so much more with a portal you can have links to. Resource is links two different systems guides on where you should put stuff. Updates from the internal newsletter. To remind people of recent resource is way did a whole system of links. If folks check the collaborative notes for our session, we put about a page and a half of links for folks to different tools. And then he also made a Google drive of downloadable resource is for folks to express. Okay, well, we need to identify the first. Where’s the where’s the sheet of patient half of links that’s going to be in the collaborative notes for our session. With that, it’s it’s on this session. If you go to the session page on the NDC agenda, there will be a link to our social. Okay, so you start in ten dot org’s, then you go into the conference, extend into the agenda. Great. So on on Wednesday morning, we have is the strategic Knowledge management. If you click on that the session description, all of the links Aaron there Wave also tested it on both of our Twitter accounts. And then we can also post at the forums and handup Florence under the Where do we want? Put that one in the main discussion or debate? Remain discussion with the mid discussion for him with us. The links because we did a lot of resource, is this is a lot for folks to absorb. Let’s take time. What is your what? Your Twitter ID? Oh, sure example. At Darva arika d a r E v e r k Darby murcott Janice What’s yours? It’s a curiosity bilich at curiosity. Bone or bones? Singular singular curiosity. Bone going challenge metoo way. Curiosity is much easier to spell them. Geever. That’s curiosity Bone. OK, OK, good. All right, So now where else is it? Besides the Twitter Twitter accounts, you said it’s in a forum. Thie tenn dot org’s community forums will go ahead, and we’ll post that on the discussion. And then I think the decision makers would be a good one for that as well. And folks confined that okay, community forums within within ten dahna. Or there’s an decision makers as well as a discussed one, and we’LL go ahead and put that link up for folks because we did a lot of research, and a lot of resource is because we know it’s it’s hard to keep track. We’re gonna have to talk about some of these because we’re doing this for about ten minutes and I have a half hour segment to fill. So it’s okay. You don’t hook with Don’t look with go to the community forum, weigh a lot more. Okay. Okay, Janice, go ahead. Your turn, please. S o. I think that Okay, way talked about sort of the diagram diagrams. They’re, like, my favorite way. Talked about training, right? So I think also in terms of thinking, we talked a little bit about, like, the explicit versus task knowledge. And so sometimes it’s sort of like you’re like, where do I start? Right, So, like, I think that, like, just starting with getting things out of people’s heads, and you’ii think you come up together with some strategies like the, you know, shadowing people and sort of like doing the retrospective after an offense or things like that about shadowing something in real life. What’s that about shuttering people? So, you know, sometimes I don’t know if you’ve ever had that experience. It’s like, maybe haven’t somebody knew who’s coming on board and they ask all these questions. You’re like, I never would have thought to explain them if you had an *** that question. So sometimes, you know, in terms of getting that knowledge out of someone’s head, we don’t always realize that we have it because we’re like, Oh, yeah, like I just do it. And I’ve been doing this for a long time, and I don’t realize that that, you know, personal system that I’ve come up with for how to get this done really efficiently, that that’s actually knowledge that is useful and that I can share with someone else, like I could teach somebody else I do. This, it is, may be hard to think about how to do that, and sometimes the best, like the easiest way is to have someone who doesn’t have that experience watch you do, you know, like maybe how do I, you know, host a good podcast? How do I do an interview, right? And so you watch somebody else do it, and then you come up with these. You either like notice. Oh, they’re doing it. This and this order, they’re doing it in this way. Or it’s an opportunity to ask that question of, you know, like, why did you choose to do it that way? Right? And I wouldn’t have thought to explain the decision for me, Like, you know, I’ve done this a million times advantage, just, you know, So I think that’s a good, easy way to pull it out. Anybody could do it. Another simple related to that. Is it sort of just telling someone like, Oh, yeah, you just go enter this over there. You could use simple tools that we all have on our laptops I movie or another, you know, quickie tool, off of Windows, laptop and just scream cast really quick what you’re actually doing and capture that in a thirty second video. You know, you could post that internally. A lot of us use chat programs at work, you know, slack or G chat or whatever. You could post that straight in there on a team channel and say by the way. This is how you do the thing. And then if people have questions about, why are you doing it? That way you can have more of a live back and forth and just a static. You know, just go do that thing. But I think even to write, like not just the not just sharing it in that moment when somebody has that question, but making sure that it’s it’s stored somewhere that people confined it later because they’re like you had that question. Probably five other people will have that question. So let me just save save the time now and just put in a place where you could find all of the screen cast on DH. Yeah, they’re a lot of simple, like snag. It is. Another one is just really. It’s really simple to use on. It’s not that expensive, so a screen Flo would be another one that’s a little bit more pricey. It’s maybe ninety nine, but it’s it’s another good moflow captures maggot. What you’re doing live on your computer to demonstrate that for folks, Maybe you’ve got your Tio. You know, a lot of folks are purely remote offices, so you might not have that ability to sit one on one, but you you could capture what you’re doing for a training video like Janice mentioned. If one person has that question, you know, ten other people have got that questions of capturing that knowledge of them, making sure you get that knowledge out as well, Not just capturing at once, but making sure people know where that resource is good. And sometimes that’s faster, right? Like trying to get somebody to like, can you? Right, the out, all the stops and documentation. They just look at you with that leg. Look like I don’t want to need you to spend time like if you were to ask him to show you that I’m like, Oh, yeah, like you did so did it up right? And and so that’s almost a wayto document more quickly. So especially people who don’t like to write things out or like they’re really stress out about it, but are willing to answer that question in that moment. If you can capture that then and make it easy for them, I think sometimes that it’s pompel for that, Uh, I don’t have anything else to say except what other? Whatever tools we got when I was trying, I was trying to think of some different types of data needs, but I can’t I can’t think of any that that I was going to ask you about specifically. So you may as well just keep going. We can talk about women defremery. Sure, a couple of the other items we talked about that are sort of the basis for when we talk about knowledge management. People look at that and they go, How did I do that? What are some practical ways to do that? So we talked about having a knowledge management framework, and frameworks can be really intimidating for folks. They see that they look online and they say all these diagrams and they go. I don’t know what that is, but it’s really just a lens for thinking about the structure. Framework is just a structure. It’s a scaffold. Eso It’s how you build your knowledge management and a focus of what’s important for your organization. Is it that is Janice mentioned? Capturing tacit knowledge is a huge problem. Your organization nobody writes anything down. They leave and then you don’t know what they did so maybe you want to build your knowledge management process, focusing on capturing tacit knowledge. Maybe it is that you guys love doing documentation, but nobody ever updates the documentation. So maybe you need to build your framework on a continuous capturing of that knowledge and continues updating instead. So we talked about different ways to to think about how knowledge works at your organization and how you should build your structures around that. And then another simple tool that we talked about is a taxonomy, which most people already have at their organizations. But they don’t think about it, and it’s not really written down. And that’s the way you refer to commonalities. So maybe your know it. Urban teachers. We’ve got three remote offices, and we use acronyms in particular terms to refer to them. We’ve got terms for referring to our program and for different stages of our participants. That’s a taxonomy. That’s something we can use across all of our systems as a common language, and it usually starts in the in the document management system, and that’s often where people see it. They build that out across multiple systems that can be used in your CR M. It could be used in your HR system. It could be used in your documentation on when you start having a common taxonomy or lexicon like that, it makes it easier to capture knowledge management cause People start using the same things to refer to processes, and it helps bring teams together and really provides a cohesion around your knowledge in your organization. Just a common understanding. Yeah, and people are often they already have one. They just don’t think about it, his attacks on me, but in general, they’ve already got one. The other thing, too, is that you can capture all of this documentation, right? But if nobody knows what it’s called like if you call it volunteermatch judgment and I call it, I don’t know constitutent management or whatever, right, I that’s no good, because then I’m not finding I’m not looking under there because I don’t think that that’s relevant to what I’m looking for. So I think that that common language is also what makes it you know, that your consistent about it you can other people confined it. They know, like OK, when someone says like this is you know, our hears their marketing materials, right? I know that that our logo is considered our marketing materials, right? And some other places it might be under something else entirely. Might be, like under and join our brand your brands, right? So it doesn’t matter what that is, as long as there’s that shared understanding the organization. This is what it means so that I can go into the document German system or, you know, if I ask, ask somebody. Hey, I’m looking for acts, right? Like we have a shared. Understand what that means and what they look for it. How do you create the shared understanding and taxonomy if one doesn’t exist? You were saying, You know, it probably exists and you don’t know it, but suppose it doesn’t suppose you know, just lots of examples of people referring to the same thing by different names. That’s where you need treyz glossary. What do you do it? It’s where you need to do a little bit of legwork. Someone on your team. It’s usually on the team, but not necessarily needs to do some knowledge. Management work needs to work with those teams, and, you know, maybe you’ve got eight sites but they and they’re all talking about his Janice mentioned things under different labels, but they’re all really doing operations, functions or volunteermatch judgment. So you work with those individual departments are sites and you find out what their commonalities are because a lot of knowledge management is about finding commonalities between things a lot of groundwork. Yeah, And you do you have to, As Janice said very aptly yesterday, you’ve gotta invest some time to save some time. You know, you can’t get saved time for free. You need to invest some some leg work up front. So if you work with those different departments to figure out what their commonalities r and you work with them to build a lexicon, you’re going to find that people aren’t is really determined to refer to something as a particular thing as they once thought. When you start showing them the commonalities on DH when I’ve done taxonomy, is that organizations? In all three cases, I’ve had to do it. People end up agreeing on the taxonomy because they you know when when you get him talking, they’re really just talking about the same things. And they’re really not that invested in referring to it as a particular thing. They’re okay with going with operations instead of, you know, office, office management or something like that. You know, they released a little bit, and they realize special and you promoted as like, you know, we’re trying to make it easier to work together. They tend to release a little bit and go. Yeah, okay. We’re cool with operations, OK? I’m surprised to hear that, actually, people would stick to their This is operations. Well, that’s what culture. So that way, that way. So So, Yeah, we talked a bit about organization because I think any time you talk about language, any time you talk about the way that we do things here, right, that is organizational culture. And you know you don’t have unorganised age culture that supports knowledge management that supports learning, right? Sharing of information. You know, sometimes people will get very Don’t touch my stuff. Stay in your lane. You know, this is my job. That’s your job. Whereas I think if you are learning organization, if you want to build that college culture of you know, we share our knowledge here and we all learn from each other. You know that obviously you don’t want those silos. That doesn’t work out very well. That’s kind of the essence of what you’re trying to do. But I think like the one of things that we talked about in terms of road blocks, where you’re trying to roll some stuff out and maybe people are like insecure, they viewed their knowledge is job security. And it’s not that Maybe that doesn’t come from a place where they used to work somewhere where you know that was an issue and that that certainly can be at an issue and in some organizations, But a lot of times it’s just that really, that individual like, you know, I want to make sure that I keep my job or I want to be seen as valuable. And you can use that to write because so it can be not were trying to steal your knowledge and take take your job away from here, take things away from you, but also you know, Hey, your knowledge is valuable and sometimes people don’t see that and helping them see that you’re acknowledges really valuable to the organization and look how much stronger the team could be if we all had could use that knowledge, and we could help you even more. And, you know, whatever you’re you’re role is all right. Gentle persuasion, all but all for the good of the mission. Absolutely. Way all could do a better job if we could come together with this agreement around this common language. Yeah. Yeah. And also acknowledging that you might be in an organization where you know there is a toxic or culture, and they’re no amount of knowledge. Management is going to fix that. So they’re just, you know, knowledge management cannot fix broken business process buzzes and broken culture. So there is an acknowledgement of that. You you’ve got larger problems if that’s going on in your organization, and we can fix that for you. We’ve had discussions about on the show previous ntcdinosaur about blaming technology when leadership or processes or culture are the problem, right? And I’m looking for a technology solution to a bad CEO, right? No amount of pretty software is going to fix something like that. No amount of nice, you know? Well streamlined document man, aren’t you? Knowledge management is going to fix that. Wait a couple more minutes together. Uh, what else did you talk about? That maybe some questions about some of the Okay, Well, a lot of the questions were related about related to culture and trying to get people on board with things when people were resistant. Because it’s hard to make it hard to make culture change. Absolutely, absolutely. And I think it’s sort of like it needs become a part of the way you do that here. And so it needs to also be part of, you know, one way. Besides, getting people’s buy-in is also making a part of job expectations, making it part of your performance performance evaluation on DH. You know, just making it like every time we haven’t have a project meeting, right reflection is part of that. Every time we have a staff meeting, there’s there’s some aspect of knowledge mansion or we talk about. You know, every quarter we talk about what do we need to update? Maybe in document management? Maybe. What do we need? So like, nobody uses this folder. Nobody looks like this like it’s maybe we need to just archive it. We don’t need it anymore or things like that and building that in and acknowledging that you can’t do this solo, you need your stakeholders and identifying who those are early on and that you’re going to need some executive stake holders. Get them in. Earlier on, we talked about different techniques with you know, that straight project management type stuff. But in terms of knowledge management, get him onboard early. You know you’re going to need them to help you push this through on DH. Really? Make sure you take care of your stakeholders and you deal with the people that are not liking your process. Figure out why they don’t like your process and try and work with that. You know it might not make them your favorite stakeholder, but if you understand where they’re coming from, like Janis was just talking about, like understanding why they’re a road block that could be really key to getting past them and really making them invested in your project and turning them around to liking your project. Having good office relationships helps also yeah, long before we’re talking about knowledge management. Just if you’re decent and it isn’t to your peers and colleagues and, uh, you get to know them outside the office, you know? And you’ve got his foundation of a relationship than when you’re calling on them for some. Some compromise. I think you’re more apt to get it. Yeah. They didn’t trust that. This is going to be good for the organization. This is We’re working towards the same goal if you don’t have that trust, and you need to start there like you need to start establishing Janet. You also mentioned the archive folder. I do plan e-giving consulting on. So I’m brought in sometimes to revive a program that’s stalled. And maybe there was a plan e-giving consultant or director. You know, four years ago. And then they eliminated the position, and it just kind of faded away, So I’m so I’m invited. Tio, update the files. Update the files. I can’t tell you that the first full day I makes archive, I’m opening this. I don’t know what everything is from two thousand six. We’LL move archive. You know, it has no relevance reducing that I think producing that clutter are not overwhelming to people. What are things you that actually relevant to to our organisation and our operations now, like maybe we need to keep that. You know, we don’t care. We’re not sure if we need to keep out, and we’re keeping it just in case that sort of get it, clear it out of the way, right? Because, like, it’s not the stuff you’re using all the time. The stuff that you are using frequently That should be, you know, really central and real quick. Good technique. With that, people get really nervous when they say you’re going to delete those archives and they hide a copy of them. So you just do a process where you keep them. But you put them in a place where it’s not clogging up their search terms and assure them they really, really need that. You can still get that back for you, and that really helps them move it out of what? What’s searchable their day today life. But if they know that it’s still there somewhere, they often are much better with being able to archive because they’re not worried about you pushing the w good. Okay, Janice, I’m gonna give you a chance to wrap up. Oh, like she’s pulling together. So I think some of the biggest things we talked about were really like, Get things out of people’s heads, Get the knowledge out of people’s heads, make it organized so that people can find it in a way that it’s It’s not overwhelming to people what makes sense to them, right? And also not, you know, being aware of people’s what people are scared of or what people. But those hang ups or obstacles might be to make sure that we can address them and get them on board. And it sounds like a lot of rigging it is, but the passing that time out front will really help you save time down the road. All right, that was Janice Chan. She’s consultant Shift and scaffold on DH. Also Darby arika, director of information technology at Urban Teachers. You are with non-profit radios coverage of twenty nineteen, the non-profit Technology Conference. All of our nineteen ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us. I need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’re free. Webinar came and went earlier this month. Tips and tricks for your nine ninety you missed it. You suck. No, but you can get it back. You watch the archive? Yes. Lamenting wayward listener that’s you gets the archive. You learn how to use your nine ninety as a marketing tool. You goto Wagner cps dot com Click seminars go to the month of April. I know it’s a little convoluted, but they don’t have a landing page there. Wagner cps dot com Click seminars Go to April and you’LL find tips and tricks for your nine ninety. Now time for Tony’s take to be the one that is my video this week. Inspired by in an Air Force reunion that I put together. It’s not really fair for me to say I hosted it because it was on the Air Force base, where we all worked Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri in the mid to late eighties, and about thirty five of us came together and then you add spouses was like fifty people, a total, but we all had this shared experience of doing an unusual job. We were launch officers for Minuteman nuclear missiles at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri in the Reagan years, and so we came together and It was just wonderful seeing everybody reconnecting you. No way have had we’ve had to reunion since then, So some of us have gotten together at other times. But some of us we have some haven’t been seen since, like nineteen eighty eight eighty nine. But there’s a re connection immediate, and that was the inspiration from my video. Be the one and what? What I mean by that? You’re just gonna have to watch. The video is at tony martignetti dot com, and that is Tony. Take do now. It’s Miller time. No, it’s not Miller. It’s Maria time. Real simple. Maybe Maria drinks Miller. I don’t know. Probably not. She has better taste. She has better taste in that. She’s much, much more refined. She’s, Ah, she’s the prospect. Find her. She’s our our trainer all. She’s a Strainer and speaker on Prospect Research. He’s our research contributor. Her latest book is Magnify Your Business Tips, tools and Strategies for Growing Your Business or Your non-profit. She’s our Doi End of Dirt, cheap and free. She’s at the prospect finder dot com and at Maria Simple Maria. Simple. Welcome back after many, many months. Yes, thank you for having me back. It’s great to be here. Absolutely. You’ve been absent since Hurricane Florence, which you and I all know know verywell. Now we track hurricanes because we live in North Carolina very close to each other on that was last September, like September twelfth or so. Yes. You’re supposed to have been on. And you had to. You had to cancel because the hurricane was imminent. Yes, I was evacuating your evacuating, right. We had an evacuation order in my town, too. On. That’s last September. Now, are you Are you done with? You had some damage. You had more damaged than I did. Are you done re rebuilding? No, they haven’t even started. Yeah, that’s the problem that people don’t get. It’s hard is held to get contractors. And this is back from September. We’re talking about September. Well, yeah, well, we’ve got this contractors on site, but there have been a lot of insurance related issues, so that’s a whole other thing. Yeah, well, there’s that too, but but just the idea of getting contractors, people don’t realize that. Of course, I never did When I lived here in the city that it’s it’s It’s not uncommon for it to be years later. I mean, I guess we experienced it somewhat with Katrina. You saw, you know, the one year anniversary, the two year anniversary. But everybody, you know, Katrina struck me as a riel aberration. Although now as the climate changes, it’s it’s less so. But at the time, it seemed like, you know, it couldn’t be that devastating. But But even just Hurricane Florence from last September in the Carolinas, it is devastating. And people are still rebuilding and have not like like you. Yeah. Yeah. Still still waiting on a lot of a lot of work to get done. But you know what? I’m grateful and blessed to still have a roof over my head and we can live in our space so that that’s all good. Yeah, yesterday. I mean, when I say rebuilding, you weren’t destroyed. But you had you had damage damage in your in your apartment. What do you It’s a townhouse. Where do you have their townhouse? Condo. Thank you. Answer. Okay. That word eluded me. That’s a That’s an advance word from a condo. Right on your in your condo. Alright. So welcome back. It’s been many many months. I’m glad you’re back. Thank God you’re back. Um, so we’re talking about ethics? Um, what’s I mean? There is a lot of there’s a ton of private information and personal info, and you know, they have to be boundaries around what we collect and how we save what we do collect. That’s that’s issues here. Yes. So, you know, that’s definitely a lot of the issues here. You know, it’s it’s interesting because sometimes people will call me and they will say, You know, Maria, I need you to work up profiles, whatever these five or ten people we need, Thio know everything they’re interested in. You need to know their network on DH a sentence. They actually, as soon as they say that word network. I know that there’s a certain level of educating that I’m going to have to do even if I begin to start to work with this particular client. And and the reason for that is because what we as prospect researchers have access to, So whether you’re working for a small to midsize non-profit or you’re a college or university or ah ha, that all you have on ly to information that’s in the public domain. We do not have access to private information such as credit reports, right? So it’s important to make that distinction. Because when we’re looking at publicly available sources, we can never come up with a net worth. I don’t tell someone. Yeah, we’re going to get into detail on the Net worth conversation. I know you. Yeah, You specifically have wrote something on it. We’Ll get to that. Um but so let’s let’s let’s pursue what you just said about public versus private sources. I mean, I would think that when your clients hire you to do prospect research or when we task our prospect researchers if their in house, uh, we want all sources, whatever you can get it. Where did you get your hands on? No, right, that’s not so right. That’s that’s an uninformed doesn’t mean she can’t get your hands on. It might not be something that your organization would consider ethical. So an example of this might be, um, divorce records, right? So sometimes those be publicly access. However, think about this. If if you have to stop and think to yourself, how would how would this donor for a perspective donor-centric er ds. And if the answer to that is G, they might sever the relationship with our organization altogether. Then it’s simply not worth looking at those divorce records or even hey, even, maybe not. Maybe not be so extreme, but they would be upset that we were evaluating that. But But But But it has value. Okay, so let’s have a conversation. So I’m gonna push back. It has value to the organization. Um, if I’m trying to find out how much a person’s settlement is in a in a divorce, you know that that goes to what I think their capability is for giving to my organization. How much they gained or lost in a divorce is goingto figure into that calculus, all right, but just let’s say they’ve gained a million dollars from that divorce settlement. Are you entitled necessarily to that million dollars? It’s just like anybody making their money in any other way. Just because they have it doesn’t mean that they would want to gift any part of that settlement here working well, you, But you could say that about you could say that about anything. You could say that about their salary. Just because they make one hundred fifty thousand dollars a year doesn’t mean I’m entitled to any of it or one and a half million dollars a year. You could say that about anything, right? But that’s why I think you really want to rely more heavily on good old development, work and cultivation and developing a relationship and under standing what those people have an interest in funding on DH whether it’ll the lines properly rather than knowing the final settlement amount of what their divorces. Okay, But it’s still I mean, I I agree that it’s unseemly, but I’m I’m challenging it anyway because, uh, you’re stuck with me as the host. I mean, that’s the best. You’re the best reason I’ve come up with. So you’re stuck with it. You can either hang up or continue. It’s your choice on I’LL be fine without you. So don’t worry. You know, if you want to end up going so I mean, I’ll entertain myself. If nobody else, I just amuse myself. Um, no. Okay, so now but it’s still it goes to their potential. I mean, you’re you look at other sources of potential, right? Like like you public public public stock holdings, right? If the person happens to be an insider, you and I have talked about this, so this is not jargon jail material. You know, I’ve talked about this. If they’re an Insider Inc. Then their public, their their their stock holdings are public. That goes to their capacity to give. So why write? You have to find another reason why divorce settlement either gain or loss is not is not valuable info because because so far so far it’s analogous to a matter of public of insider stock. So when those when those insider stockholders file with the federal with the SEC right, the Securities and Exchange Commission, they know that this becomes part of a public filing that is completely searchable online, etcetera, etcetera. Operation will have it on their website. No eso again. It’s just what is the perception that they’re goingto have of you looking at the different types of records. So I think that again, and it’s just if your organization ends up having a policy that it’s perfectly fine to do that, then that’s fine. But I think that you do need to make a decision about you know if if are there certain types of records that you will consider off limits for your organization and just put a policy in place, whatever. Whatever way you decide to go, in the matter of, say, divorce records, for example, what’s another word not going against your policy? Do you think of another category of data? That’s Ah, a gray area. Um, you’re a professional, and you’re professional researcher. Yeah, well, you’ve been asked three years for other stuff that you felt uncomfortable with. Well, they’re what they’re I can remember one time in particular when I was researching an individual. Ah, that I decided not to put something in writing because I knew that the perspective donor-centric lorcan ization And this is this is across the board. You need to be aware of this, uh, altum non-profits do that. They could walk into your organization and say, Show me what you’ve amassed on the show Me any. Tell me my donor records. Show me my files. Right. Uh, so you need to be able to turn that over and know that they’ve been written in a very subjective and objective way. I’m sorry and not put anything subjective into it. No subjective statement. So, for example, there was something that I passed along to a development officer verbally, as opposed to putting it in writing, because I felt that it was going to potentially jeopardize our relationship that they were developing with that individual. However, it was very important that the development office, they’re new, that this person had insider trading and had done some paid a lot of fines for it in their background because they were considering this person as treasurer for the organisation Esso. I felt that it was my duty to toe let this officer know that this was in this person’s background because they just didn’t know that, right? Very Jermaine. Yeah, I think you might have used that as an example some other time for something else we talked about. That sounds familiar. Yeah, okay, but it’s a good one. It’s a poignant story. Okay, okay. All right, so So I. So I guess you’re saying divorce records. That’s the main. That’s the main thing that you find unseemly. And I do kind of like your standard do of what would if someone came in and read everything that we have on them. What would they say? How would they feel on that? That’s going to go to not only what you include, but how you describe it to how you describe your conversations with them. You know, you and I both agree that the best some of the best research, not all some of the best research comes from face to face meetings. How do you describe those meetings in your CR M after you’re back from the lunch or the dinner on DH? So thinking how the person would evaluate that feel about it could shade how you describe it? Okay, I gotto now. I just did a lot of talking. I gotta take a break. Hold on, Maria Simple. Stand by our last Break last break text to give you diversify your revenue by adding mobile e-giving. It is a misconception that this is only for disasters. That’s not true. You can build relationships by text. You do what you do it all the time with your family and friends. You can build relationships with donors as well. It’s very possible to do through texting. You learnt how, with the five part email, many course, um, to get into the many course you text NPR two four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Now we gotta do the live listener, love. Ah, and it’s Ah, live listeners are in starting abroad. Seoul, Seoul, South Korea Gotta send annual haserot comes a ham Nida, of course, to Seoul Moscow, Russia Welcome Moscow on DH Hanoi Hanoi, Vietnam Sometimes Vietnam is with us, but we can’t see the city. But today we can we know. We know it’s Hanoi. Welcome, live! Listen, love to Vietnam and also Istanbul, Turkey. Very happy to have you with us Live love to you and Burundi. I’m sorry. We cannot see your city Brandy, but we know you are with us. So live love. I think that’s a first for burned e cool. And here in the U. S. Only couple Tampa, Florida Live love to you New York, New York Multiple love to see that. And on the heels of the live listen, love comes the podcast Pleasantry are pleasant trees. It’s multiple. There’s more than one listener podcast. In fact, they’re over thirteen thousand, so I can’t just send one pleasantry. The pleasantries to you so glad that you are with us. However, non-profit radio fits into your schedule. Pleasantries to you. Thank you for being with us on the podcast. Now, we’ve got lots more time for ethics in your prospect research. Um, anything you want to say, Marie Sample. I gave a big diatribe, and then I cut you off with a with a with a break. Anything you want to add or comment on About what I just said. Now, Now, I think I think we covered that in general. But I did want to spend a little bit of time talking about, you know, potential code of ethics that the organization might want to follow on where they could find some guidelines. Yes, you get your dirt free and dirt free. Resource is cheapen defremery everything. Okay, So there’s this awesome organization that you’ve heard me mention it before. That professional researchers prospect researchers either belong to it were at minimum, will adhere to their code of ethics and its apra a p r a. Dahna work. So that stands for the Association of Professional Researchers for Advancement. And the thing about APRA is that they’ve got this page of their website that is actually dedicated to their statement of ethics. So it would be great if your listeners at least went to the after a website. Took a look at the ethics statement Whether or not you remember and really take a look at you know what is involved? What are the areas that you need to be aware of as you’re putting together your your code of ethics for your organization. And they’ve even got a wonderful ethics tool kit. A za pdf document that’s chock full of great resource is so I really would encourage your listeners to go check out our our listeners. Maria. Simple, please. You made that mistake. You made that part in that pronounced twice. I share the listselect hours. No ownership here. Yes. So I I went through. I was disappointed with the statement of ethics. I I found it kind of vague. However, the tool kit had the good examples. Like I was looking for examples. All right, um, of you know, they talk about, for instance, in the statement of ah, statement of ethics, they talk about bilich shall only record data that is appropriate to the fund-raising process. So I was thinking for I was looking for examples of what’s inappropriate, but it gets flushed out when you go to the when you go to the tool kit now, right? So let’s, uh let’s talk a little about Oso in the ethics statement, it suggests a couple things like you should not be. You should not be friending prospects that you’re doing research on with your personal accounts for one is that that’s right. Is that your statement? Yes, yes, that’s correct. And and also, you should be transparent when you are doing any type of research on behalf of your organization, right? So if you’re, uh if you’re if you’re calling somewhere to find out, you know, whatever. Somebody stop holdings are something like that, you know, in public stockholding records and and they ask you, you know who’s calling you. You have to be transparent as to who you are on DH, you know, and what organizations of your work you know as well. So you want to just make sure that your you do have maintained the standard. Okay, so So when you’re calling, you’re not just saying, uh, my name is Maria Simple, but you’re giving the name of the organization that you’re calling on behalf of two. Is that what you mean? Right? And quite frankly, it is rare that you’re going to be asked for, you know? So when they’re publicly source to information, they’re typically not going to be asking, you know who’s calling? I mean, I’ve never called. For example, if I can’t find information on tax assessment records, right or tax property tax records and I call it an assessor’s office, they’ve never really asked Who is this? Why are you asking? Because they know it’s publicly available information. They just give you the information that you’re looking for, you know, on that property record so you can call and ask about any property you know, anywhere in the United States, and you’d be able to get that information without being asked. But if in the in the event that you ever are rushed to be transparent, so the same goes on social media, right, um, you can That’s why you don’t want to make a fake profile. But I know I saw that. Yeah, people do that. You don’t want to make a fake Lincoln profile with the, you know, with the intention of trying to take all these people into becoming your first degree connections just so that you can reap all this wonderful information off their profile, right? Because now they might be okay. Here’s an interesting one. Suppose they’re talking about their divorce on, um, Now, don’t make it Facebook, because the likelihood of friending prospect on Facebook is pretty slim, I think. But let’s see. Well, wait. Now let’s see if they’re If they’re a fan of your organization Page, does their personal feed become visible to you? No. No, it doesn’t. No, no, it doesn’t work that way. Okay, but if they made any comments, you know, on DH, I got in. Any person would make a comment about their divorce, and I’m trying to I’m trying to make it more like trying to make it more likely. Okay. Suppose this supposes Twitter, Um, suppose you’re the organization is following them on Twitter. Um, and, uh, and there another bitter. Or maybe they’re ecstatic. Maybe they did great. You know, maybe the guy reaped a big reward. Um, it feels like he you know, he’s got over. So the guy or the woman is now bragging on Twitter and you’re following them. That’s that’s public now. Right now, it’s now it’s public. Now it’s public. So in my opinion, I think my fellow researchers would probably agree with this. It would be perfectly fine Teo to take a screenshot or quote what was said and then give attribution to the day, uh, that you saw this particular quote on Twitter. Ah, and but again write it in a very objective way. So you know you don’t write. You don’t introduce it by saying, you know, looks like metoo windfall in their divorce, as evidenced by the tweets. And, you know, just you know this so and so commented on their divorce by saying, you know, the couple was divorced, It would appear the divorce is final and the prospect had the following tweet regarding their divorce. Not now. Very objectively written. Okay, I agree. I see. Um, so going into the going into the er going to the tool kit? Um, they said something about list sharing that I was surprised by, um, list sharing. Never share lists with volunteers, key stakeholders, um, etcetera, etcetera. But But they were saying they said volunteers and key stakeholders. But we’ve talked about Andi. I’ve had other guests to talk about sharing lists with board members. But but this opportunity, it says you shouldn’t be sharing this with volunteers and key stakeholders. What do you make of that? Yes, so again have a very clear policy in place. So if your organization’s policy would be that the only stakeholders who would have access to discussion of proactively created list would be boardmember and state that on DH, then maybe put together ah, confidentiality confidentiality policy for your volunteers board members on employees. Also, by the way, on DH, we could talk a little bit later about a particular organization that has an excellent example of those types confidentiality agreements. But if you are going to start doing that type of list creation, discussion of lists or even quite frankly, discussion of any prepared profiles that you have on individuals, it’s going to be a good idea. Tto have thes confidentiality policies in place. Okay, okay, shut out the organization now go ahead. The one that has good, good examples. What right? And so there’s one called the National Council of non-profits. Ah, and the the way I actually got to their their confidentiality agreement was actually through through the two tool kit and through operas website. So that would be a really good place for you to start. And then, you know, get your way over to those agreements that they get very good samples that you could literally just, you know, very easily modify, um, plug in the name of your organization, you know, run it by your attorneys to make sure that being the language would be appropriate for your organization and then actually have these folks sign it. So, Fury, let’s say you’re only going to have the Development committee is going to be the only folks that have access to any, uh, any of these profiles or these lists that you create and make sure that everybody on that development committee, whether they be a boardmember or outside the board, you might have you might have some outside boardmember is also involved in development efforts. Have them sign the agreement as well. And then these documents have to be treated properly after they’re after there. You set the board meeting, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. If you decide to print anything out, be extremely careful about what happens with those documents. Try not to let any of them walk out of the room, make sure you’ve got a shredder in house. The last thing you want is for something to go into the trash and, you know, or recycling or whatever and then get, you know, literally the wind blow it around the neighborhood. So did you want to be careful? And even though it’s all publicly sourced information, still, it is something that, uh, that they were accepted the donor or perspective donor. You know, out there in aggregate, it could be a lot more valuable than individual discrete pieces of data that people have to go and find on, especially when it’s a list of fifty potential major donors, etcetera or even foundations. All right, I want to give you a shout out. You are. You are named in the Capital kit because you wrote an article about being more than networth for from non-profit times and we so So you already already explained why you need need no liabilities, not just assets if you if you’re going to do real net worth. But they shot you out in the tool kit. So I wanted to mention that. Okay, wait. Just have thiss flies, but it always does with you. So we just have, like, thirty seconds left. Um, wrap us up. Okay. So to wrap this up, then you’ve got all this wonderful information. Make sure that it is stored in a secure way. Locked file, password protected files if you you share it through e mail. Make sure through password protected, encrypted ways that you’re communicating this thes profiles and so forth on. So make sure that the data is all security in some way. Ah, if your whatever you’re using Teo as your cr m Teo donorsearch software, make sure it’s password protected. And I know exactly who has access to those passwords, then change them often. Thank you very much. Maria. Simple. She is the Prospect Finder trainer and speaker on Prospect Research are doi and of their cheapened free you’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com And at Marie, a simple thank you again. Maria, Thank you for having me. Good to see you again. Thanks. My pleasure. Next week, more from the non-profit technology conference. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuing by witness Deepa is guiding you beyond the numbers when you’re cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made Easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A Creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer show. Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other ninety five percent Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving Good. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. 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Nonprofit Radio for April 19, 2019: Grit: Succeeding As A Woman In Tech & Great Ideas

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Marisa Lopez, Sara Chieco, Tami Lau & Aparna Kothary: Grit: Succeeding As A Woman In Tech
Our panel takes on the common challenges facing women in tech as they share their own stories and reveal lots of strategies for succeeding in this overwhelmingly male-dominated career. They’re Marisa Lopez, Sara Chieco, Tami Lau & Aparna Kothary. (Recorded at the 2019 Nonprofit Technology Conference.)





Graziella Jackson & Marcy Rye: Great Ideas
Also from 19NTC, we get methods for generating strong—even breakthrough—ideas, everyday, with help on how to choose and implement the best ones. Our panel is Graziella Jackson & Marcy Rye.





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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of silicosis if you mentioned the bird brained idea that you missed today’s show grip succeeding as a woman in tech, Our panel takes on the common challenges facing women in tech as they share their own stories and reveal lots of strategies for succeeding in this overwhelmingly male dominated career. They’re Marissa Lopez, Sarah Chico, Tammy Lau and Aparna Kothari that’s recorded at the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference and Great Ideas, also from nineteen ninety Sea. We get methods for generating strong, even breakthrough ideas every day with help on how to choose and implement the best ones. Our panel is God’s piela Jackson and Morsi ry. I’m Tony Steak to thank you. We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising, data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuing by where you see Oppa is guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us, and by text to give mobile donations made easy Text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine Here is grit succeeding as a woman in Tech. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ninety Sea. That’s the non-profit technology Conference coming to you from Portland, Oregon, at the Convention Center. This interview, like all our nineteen ninety si interviews, is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. This topic is grit. Succeeding as a woman in tech panel is all tech leadership. Women beginning with Closer to me is Marissa Lopez. She’s director of account management, presents product group, then. Sarah Chico is director of technology. Social Impact of Presidents Prat Presence Product Group. Tommy Lau is senior self sales force. Energy engineer Tommy Lau is a senior sales force engineer. Social Impact Presents product group and Aparna Qatari is director of technology operations, a global citizen year. Technology. Women Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Technology leadership with women. Welcome. That’s what way women in Texas. They’re succeeding as a woman in tech. This’s not. This is not a panel of lackluster professionals. A panel of successful professionals Important to make the difference makes a distinction. All right, um, let’s talk down the end there. A partner. Thank you for sharing Tammy in a partner. Thank you for sharing Mike’s. The panel is so big, but I didn’t want to exclude anybody, So let’s start with a partner, you know, Give us Give us the headline. Give us the headline in the lead. What is it? What does it take to be, uh, to remain as a successful woman in tech not to get there We’ll get we’LL get to the get there But what does it take to remain st Stay, Stay as successful as you have been I think because you know where you are, right? I think we’Ll probably have slightly different answers with this, but probably with an underlying theme of community and finding a community that you resonate with that you could be comfortable with. One of those communities for us is amplifying. We are working with people with underrepresented voices in tech and so we have in person groups, online groups. But the fact of having a group of people who you can be yourself within share yer challenges with I think something about being an underrepresented voice and tigers when you’re in the workplace. You sometimes don’t want to show that you don’t understand something. Don’t know something are are kind of not faltering but are struggling a little bit. And so it’s been really nice to have a community of people where you can show those struggles, get support, get riel. Resource is without judgment, without judgment, with pretense. So that has to me that has been kind of a game changer. Tammy, would you want to add anything to the community? Sense of the importance of community? Yeah, absolutely. I think I wholeheartedly agree with what partner said. Just finding this community specifically amplified. But other women in tech communities as well has really made my life as a woman in tech so much easier, so much more fulfilling and has really helped me to get to where I am today. Andi organization is amplify. Is that right? Yes, amplify were amplified out, or ge amplified dot org’s okay there. Pointing to Marissa was where assuring the amplify shirt. But everybody doesn’t have the advantage of the video. Yeah, most of our audience is podcast, right? So So what’s that make sure? Amplify. It says amplifying. Yeah, that’s right. We are amplified out. Organs are website in the name of the group. Example. Five. Okay. Okay. Um so, Sara, let’s let’s get you in on the headline. Anything more than community? Uh, probably. I think perseverance and hard work and diligence are are kind of traits that I feel I’ve had to exhibit and had to be strong at in order to succeed and continue succeeding more, though more so than male counterparts, do you feel on the persevere inside, Absolutely absent, really persevering over what persevering over the challenges that come as being a woman in technology, in having managers that don’t understand necessarily how to relate to you or how to speak to you properly, or how to kind of bring out the best in you being having to do that on your own essentially and kind of overlooking, you know, various slights and or obstacles that are put in your way because you’re a woman and not similar to your male counterparts. What are some of those obstacles? Pay disparity, promotion disparity? You know, I was once told, yes, it’s true that you’re better than your male counterparts. And yes, it’s true that they all are making more than you. But it would just be too hard to re calculate the pay scale at this point in time. So we’re just going to leave it as is when this is done. That’s your trouble line. Herbal example. Yeah, too much trouble. It’s just one minor example, but it’s been like that. I have a master’s degree in computer science. I’ve been in Tech since the nineties, and it’s gotten better, but it’s still definitely not all the way better. Okay, because there is a stereotype that people are guys. Yes, guys become computer scientists. Yes, I was a graduate teaching fellow and out of a class of one hundred twenty six students, one was a woman. Reza. Yes. What do you want to say to introduce this? What do you want with the headliner? So what comes to mind for me is the title of the session, and so it’s it’s really what Sarah said around perseverance like to be the word grit, little shorter little fun, more fun and a little more edgy, but really is about the same thing, right? So to be gritty. I mean, if you think about Grigg, you’re thinking about, like, a piece of sand in your eye you’re thinking about, like, you know, biting your tongue. You’re thinking about surviving something they, you know you’d rather just bail out on. I think all of that, really. You know, they’re analogies for the experience of being a woman in technology. Um, some of the common challenges other. Certainly. Sarah listed a couple of poignant and illegal leased. The pain started challenges, Uh, other challenges. Are you willing to open up to any personal I mean, get personal, But what’s happened to you personally as a professional, uh, that I don’t feel comfortable talking about on this radio cast, but I will say that toe piggyback on what they all were saying about community, I think one of the big challenges is also just around being vulnerable and not being able to be vulnerable in the workplace. And that is one of the reasons we need our community. The vulnerability aspect. Yeah. All right. All right. Okay. Anybody wantto respond to what I you know? Like what? What you faced Shuriken in general. So as you mentioned Yes, the stereotype of programmers and developers. Being men is a constant challenge. I’m fighting whenever I’m in a space with other developers. I always have to to feel like I have to prove that I am also a programmer. And over that, yes, I do belong there. Yes, I don’t look like you. Yes, I do indeed. Write code, you know, so that constant mental energy of having to prove myself and altum to convince others I belong, you know? So there’s that that costs to my tio, my energy and my time that there’s that men don’t have to do, don’t have to expend Yeah, partner, I think for me I think a lot about the role of assumptions, both assumptions that are placed on us. But once that we have placed on ourselves just based on how way have been raised in a society as such. And so I think about how we were talking about how your first job out of college, that salary really sets you on a path of, you know, Sal er, promotions and salary raises and how you start off when I think about the wage gap. We’re starting off at a disadvantage for no reason other than our gender perceived gender. And I just get the assumptions role of has really made it made it more challenging, but also made it harder. Tio Excavate what the challenges for? Because it’s so ingrained in my own. Have you, uh have you done your session yet tonight? Coming up. Okay, so now I know a lot of what you’re gonna do is spend time listening to with stories are coming from the audience. Okay. Are you not? Yeah, I thought you were some but we’re also going to talk about our stories. OK? Yeah. We’ll be telling stories. Okay. Uh I guess in more detail. Alright, Thin. You want thirteen thousand strangers to here? Ok, I understand. It’s not a perfectly safe space. It’s time for a break. Pursuant. The art of first impressions. How to combine strategy analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back That is there a book on dahna acquisition and how to make a smashing first impression. You’LL find it at the listener landing page which, as always, is that Tony dahna may slash pursuant with the capital P for please let’s do the live love live love goes out. I don’t know where you are because we’re pre recorded, But you’re listening live. And I love that you are. It seems like strips that I love you. I love that year. I hardly know you. I don’t know you at all. So I love that you are listening and the live love goes out. Let’s just Let’s just keep it at that. Let’s not get carried away. And the podcast Pleasantries. Of course. The pleasantries have to come on the heels of the love first love. Then the pleasantries tow our podcast audience. Thank you for listening via podcast pleasantries. So from here we go back to Marissa Lopez, Sarah Chico, Tammy Lau and a partner Kothari. You think I could say all those names? Here they are. We’re not quite halfway, but let’s move to the positive. Okay, Okay. I’m gonna put you on the spot. Although you did say you’re willing, but yeah, I think we’ve We’ve covered the challenge is sufficiently. I think I think the guys there’s a lot more to talk about. Guys, we’re listening, Tio. All right, Go ahead. Teresa. You wanted Teo won’t do one more. Well, I just think. I think the pay in salary is actually really huge and really a big deal and really a really problem. And it it goes deeper than the workplace. I mean, when you’re getting played last year, disadvantage of the world, your children at our disadvantage. Some people are a disadvantage to their partner. I mean, that’s like a huge, huge power issue that women have to deal with. I say I would say myself specifically I was. I kayman attack about a quarter way through my career and I was severely underpaid. I didn’t know that I should be getting paid more. There wasn’t a lot of salary studies out of the time, and I didn’t come from a tech background. I wasn’t part of the network. The good old Boys network for folks know how much people are getting paid so again without that community, that network in that background, I got underpaid for many, many years and I will never be able to make that up, you know, like Aparna said, like you can’t make up for being underpaid early in your career affects your the rest of your life. Yeah, home holds you back and that’s it’s all based on the beginning. All right. You want to Sara? Sure. I can give you an example. So I worked at a start up in San Francisco down your South Park maybe almost twenty years ago. And though it was, you know who’d strap warehouse, whatever. And it was just it was one person who kind of ran the office and the company at operations. And then there were five software engineers and I was the only woman in the company, and I didn’t often open. We didn’t have, You know, anybody who opened the door had kind of an office role. Occasionally I did. Mostly, I didn’t. But whenever I would get up to answer the door, sure enough, the guy who was standing at the door would ask me to get him coffee. Never once did any of my male counterparts get asked to bring coffee too, you know, I mean, it’s just little things like that that happened throughout your career. Kind of perpetually. But I don’t even drink coffee, nor do I know how to make it. So you know, I know I do know how to make it, but I don’t like you drinking? That’s irrelevant to the boy. Almost. Why were you hired in that company? Uh, because I was a good software engineer. So they so they were open. They recognized your your professional talent. But then it was the visitors who ask this now. I don’t know. I’m sorry. These air. Oh, that’s right. You were opening the door of the visitor’s presuming that you’re the office secretary. I’m the secretary, makes the coffee. Women and minorities will deal with micro questions like that every single day. I will tell you every single day in the workplace, and it is very exhausting. And I I think that that is part of the reason that folks with underrepresented voices do not get promoted to leadership is they don’t have the additional band, wants to do all the networking and all the snoozing and all the extra work. Sometimes and all the things. All the things you have to do to move up the ladder because they’re already being overburdened with all these little aggressions. And it is every day still Okay, I see. Let’s let’s let’s talk about let’s talk about overcoming, okay? Overcoming these obstacles and challenges. Um, Tammy Tammy, you have Ah, kick us off the first first tip. I mean, the whole community’s been said so check out, amplify if you’re if you’re among the oppressed. Well, I guess all female. So if you are, if you are the oppressed that we’re talking about, check out, amplify amplify dot or ge is that we are amplified dot org’s okay for under represented folks. Okay. Underrepresented in any in any respect. Okay. In tech. Okay. Exactly. So strategies. Tammy Teacher. So I think I’m going back to the issue I talked about which was the mental energy of explaining yourself. Is that yes. Take the opportunity to explain you know the issues and to explain your story and to try to educate people using the venues that you have, but sometimes just say no. Just walk away and save that energy for another fight. So you don’t have to fight every battle, make it fight. It were accounts, so that’s that’s made him okay. Um go ahead apartment. Have a real simple find a mentor and be a mentor. Yeah, I hear that commonly, for women especially needing to support each other Umm, how about when you’re you’re getting started in your career, is there? Is there anything unique too? To suppose u s o Unlike Sarah, Suppose you are aware that you’re being grossly underpaid. You know who was who was underwear? Who was away? That Morris Resa unaware that you were grossly underpaid. Suppose you are aware. Uh, you go to your boss. Let’s assume that that’s Ah, guy. Worst case scenario. Uh, all the women can be difficult to eye, right? It’s not. It’s not only men, although I’m not gonna let me off the hook. But women can be difficult to women also, let’s assume, let’s assume it’s a male supervisor. You know, you’re being terribly underpaid, but you’re new in your career. Maybe you’re just a year or two out of school, and this has come become aware to you. You become aware of it. Uh, who wants to? What do you What do you think? What? You said you can stay a couple of things so that we could move on. So so once someone else’s dancer. But I would say one thing. First of all, don’t be afraid to go look at a different top if they’re not going to give you a raise at your job. You do not have to stay. If there was a lot of opportunity for smart people up and hardworking people and that is a really thing. And I feel like maybe my generation or maybe who am or maybe who I was raised always like. You have to stick with this and you have to make it work or whatever, but you actually don’t. So that’s one thing. Don’t be afraid to go somewhere else, that sort of do it all the time. Two. I really believe in accomplices and acts in accomplices, meaning like allies that could be male allies that could be other co workers. I could be your friends, but I think it is important to find people that you can trust that can help toe advocate for you. Yeah, and sometimes it’s like Tammy. Wising sometimes is not the fight pick. It’s not the battle Tau Tau battle against, but sometimes someone else can do it for you. And you could either call them in and you could establish that relationship so they could do it. Okay, help from others. Anybody else for the early first couple of years of work, uh, strategies for that For that phase of career. I am pretty far removed from that phase of my career at this point. So why would you remember? Because you were mentoring somebody who right who is in that? Well, I was underpaid when I was in that phase, and I wound up having to have other job offers in hand twice to get raises, because both times they claimed there was not any additional money, which was not true. And then when I, as Marissa said, you have to be willing to look elsewhere. One thing I would recommend not doing is don’t threaten to quit somewhere if you’re not actually really ready to leave and have another good opportunity. That’s possible because I think idle threats are probably not together, completely counterproductive. But so I did actually have other job offers in hand and got matching raises twice and then left when I felt like what I wanted to do. There was done because I was never going to stay in a place that didn’t value my worth. So as a as a you know, I was a director of technology. I managed about ten people now and I always bring people in at what I feel is a is a higher than you. No base salary, because I want people starting off on the right foot. And I want people happy with what they’re making and not feeling like they’re already behind the eight ball to start. You know, a lot of times people kind of like negotiate down with you when you’re doing your initial salary negotiations. And I just don’t believe in doing that. Tammy three of you are with Presidents Product Group, so we may as well disclosed. What? What’s the work of President’s presence? Product group? Sure. So, actually, I was with a non-profit until about six weeks ago. And you’re the only one. You have No one there. Yeah, masking the newest employee. All right, Will you still know? You still know what they do. So what do they do? S o? We build digital products, whether that’s mobile APS o our products on sales force. And specifically our team works with social impact ordered. So non-profits be corporation. Is anybody making a difference in the world building self source products for them? Because you have seen your sales force engineer Yes, you’re correct. Okay. Okay. Uh, all right. Let’s Let’s progress in our career were beyond the first two to three years. Um, for any for any phase of any phase of career. What are apart? You haven’t spoken for a while. What? What is some strategy would give us another strategy for coping overcoming these obstacles. I mean, I think I go back to what I said about being a mentor. I think having a mentor outside of your organisation, but in your industry, because I think often what we do is we tie our salary to ourselves. To our sense, our self worth. Really, this is what we are worth in the work place. This is what we should be paid and that I guess it’s fine. And without having someone to see toe like, understand the industry and understand the work that you’re doing and understand what comparison’s across the industry, I think oftentimes we’re just way are not aware. We’ve convinced ourselves like Oh, yeah, way always justified, right? I’m only fears into my career. This seems like an appropriate salary, because this is what they’ve given me. So I just I think that like building you’re what? I’ve heard someone call like your own board of advisors. We’re kind of your own council of advisers. Teo, give you advice. I think I need to work on that. But I keep keeps coming back to me as a strategy. Okay. And as you said earlier, also, when you are more senior, be willing to be a mentor, seek a mentor and be a mentor. Yeah, All right. We still have lots of time together, right? Go ahead. What else we’re doing? Well, I have something that was really hard for me. That I have learned to do is shamelessly is to toot my own horn. Publicized things on social media linked in I mean linked in this huge, you should be putting updates on lengthen. You should be putting like articles. You should be putting events. You’re going, Tio, that is actually really important. And I always thought that it was more like the work that I am doing for this company and if I am doing my job really well, but actually, publicizing that, especially in this day and age, is actually really important in whatever your networks are. So I think that is a piece of advice that applies to any stage of the A career, but particularly mid career and think it’s easy to get lost in the actual have your head down and focus on what you’re doing. But you need to talk about it and you need to get up in person and you need to write block post and nobody really has time for that. But it actually makes a huge difference. The quality, not just what you’re making or the opportunities, but actually the quality of your career experience used on DH. Your point about Lincoln well taken before that, you said tooting your own horn. Well, how do you do that? You go into your How do you do that with your with your boss with like like, Quarterly? Is that you? You, uh, do you rely on the annual or the semi annual performance review to do that? Or there are other times you’re doing it? Yes, so that proactively, that’s a fair question, I think for me personally, the closer I am with someone, the harder it is. Tio toot, my own horn, so to speak. It’s easier to do it more publicly in generically, but I think that I need to do that a lot more, and it just comes down to communication. You win a big deal. You have a great conversation with a client. You call him, you text them, you slack them. You sent him an email, whatever kind of way you mentioned it during a sales meeting, you mentioned it. Turn whatever meeting you’re having being vocal and meetings again. An area that I need to work on and sayings what’s going on. Hey, I had this great day or even I met this great connection that would be really beneficial to our company. Whatever it is, that’s positive talking about it, you know, not holding it in latto things. Nobody knows unless you say it. This is the This is the great panel. And a couple of you have already said I need to be better at this, you know? But it’s hard. It’s hard to actually take the take the steps on. And it’s you know, it’s probably exhausting, too, starting at a disadvantage, but But you’re the great panel and and you’re even saying you know, I need to be I need to be better at this for myself. But consciousnesses know that women are very self critical of themselves. Yeah, that’s true. Wasting no more time. I’m, uh Are there other subjects you’re going to cover that weren’t Maybe we’re not in your session description, which is what I got my notes from. I saw the common challenges. I know we did that personal challenges from the audiences and talk about your own and then strategies for overcoming obstacles. Is there more that you’re doing? Don’t hold back on non-profit radio listeners. Well, like we’re saying, I think we’re going to dive a little bit deeper into our story. So I think everybody here has a really interesting story of how they got to this point. Three of the four of us started off in the nonprofit sector. Part is still in the nonprofit sector. Tammy just crossed over to the dark side. Um, Tammy also comes from an environmental background. I come from a background in conservation. So Sarah’s actually the only one on this panel that came from a real computer science background. Yet we’re all in technology, so I think there’s some interesting points within that. Okay. Yeah. You want to flush some of them out there. Go ahead. Yeah. So I will say, coming from a non-profit background. And we’ve talked about this amongst ourselves again. Sort of the culture of tech. Just so you have glitter eye shadow. That’s right. Just your glasses. Where I didn’t notice it. Even though you’re sitting there like it, it’s Ah, striking. Yeah, Thank you. I just I only because I was lifting up until now. Your eyeglasses covering here? Well, they just write out the eye shadow. Yeah, you could show it off your for those who don’t have the benefit of video, they’re not going to see that. So Marissa has Yes, literally. I’ve been dreamforce twelve or thirteen times. I actually don’t know. In Dream Force is the global sales worth extravaganza, right? And so, you know, like maybe eleven, twelve years into it. You kind of have to like, you really, really have to have fun with it or else you are not happy. So I was going to just bring the glitter for the evenings out, but I figured I could just wear it anywhere. And then I just realized I could wear it to other conferences to nobody here knows me and knows whether I worked litter all the time aren’t hot. All right, So you were flushing something out? Yeah, the difference backgrounds that you bring to today. So I brought you to non-profit, Released lives or culminating this moment Don’t radio. That’s right. And so I would say that like for younger generations So it might not be applicable if you’re a millennial or if your generation z but for my generation sales lorts and exist. When I went to college, the Internet barely existed. I definitely didn’t use a window in high school. You know, a lot of this stuff is new, and so there’s this term of accidental techie that folks like to take on, but I actually think that that term should not be used right. And folks like myself that come from the non-profit backgrounds are usedto lower pays and usedto working for the mission rather than for the money. I also have this. This might applied to folks that are listening to non-profit radio like inclination that once you go into the tech space, you still have to stay at the non-profit salaries. You’re still working for a mission. And so I think that and the culture is frankly grittier. Once you get into the space and I would say it sze rougher. It’s more fast paced. It’s more masculine. And from my experience, then the non-profit fate space, which is often more feminine and so that cultural change for me was really challenging. And I think it can be for a lot of people. And I think it’s also very normal to cross over from one sector into tech because so many people are working attacked. There’s so much need for that. And there’s need for folks intact and people getting poached in to check all of the time. So there is this transitional, a thing that can happen that some of us have experience that can be fairly challenging. Yeah, and Tio Tio, I think, as someone without a tech background who’s now a tech, and this happens to some extent to everybody. But that feeling imposter syndrome can be much stronger when you don’t have a tech background and you’re surrounded by other people who you feel like, Oh my God, Everyone knows what they’re doing. I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m a fraud. I shouldn’t be here that could just make it really hard coming from a different background into the space and then being underrepresented person on top of that. So I got to imagine that in any phase of our life we imitate and sort of we look at other people where social people are social, right by nature. And so when you look up and you see that only three percent of the CEOs in the tech space or Latino you assume that you don’t belong in leadership. It’s just a natural human assumption. So there’s a very big disparity and leadership that we’re also dealing with here. OK, we’ve got about a minute or so left. Uh, Sarah, a partner. You haven’t spoken most recently. Uh, somebody want toe, give us sort of a wrap up and optimism. Uh, either one of you. I tell you what. A partner. You I let you open. I should session say, like you opened. I asked youto open. I did ask you, uh, Sarah, do you feel comfortable with Cem Porting words, Some parting words? Yeah, I think that, you know, it’s I mean, it may sound cheesy, but, you know, you should do what you are drawn to do and what makes you feel good doing it. And if that’s being in technology, whether you’re under represented or not, you know, go forth and be strong and doing it. Look to your mentors. Look to your community. Don’t be afraid. Women. A lot of times they’re really afraid to ask for help because they feel like it makes them seem weak. Do not be afraid to ask for help. You know, ask for help along the way. It’s actually it’s a really great trait to be able to do that, and I think it’s also well respected. So I would say, You know, go forth. Don’t be put off by the fact that it is more difficult. This is the great panel. We gotta leave it. There they are. Marissa Lopez, director of account management at Presence Product Group. Sarah Chico, director of technology Social Impact Presents Product group. Tommy Lau, Senior Sales Force Engineers, Social Impact Presents Product Group and Aparna Kothari, director of technology operations at Global Citizen year. Thank you very much of each of you. Thanks for telling so much. This is Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the nineteen twenty nineteen non non-profit technology conference, and this is brought to you by our partners and act blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits Macon Impact Thanks so much for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’ve got a free webinar It was on April sixteenth. That was a few days ago, but you watch the archive. Of course, it’s tips and tricks for your nine ninety. The best part. You’ve heard me say it. Using your nine ninety as a PR tool is a marketing promotion tool. So many people are reading it because it’s so widely available. Ubiquitous. You might say that you may as well not just satisfy the I. R. S because they don’t care what your right and how you used these sections. As long as the numbers all add up, uh, use it as a marketing tool because it’s so widely read by potential donors. Watch the archive of the Webinar Goto wagner cps dot com click seminars. I wish you could click webinars, but you can’t quick seminars. Then go to April. Now, Time for Tony. Take two. Thank you. Um, thanks. Thanks for listening. Thanks for supporting non-profit Radio however you do if you are subscribed on YouTube. Thank you very much. Twitter. Following their joining there, I’d like to say I don’t really like to turn followers some messiah. Uh, no. You’re joined me. You joined me on Twitter. Thank you for doing that. You’re an insider. You get the insider alerts. You got the access to the insider videos. Thank you for doing that. Whatever you do. Uh, what else? Facebook. Oh, yeah. Facebook were still there? A cz disenchanted as I often am with Facebook. Yes. Were there along with four billion other people. So, uh, thank you. Your your fan on Facebook. Thanks for doing that. You shared non-profit radio you shared with your colleagues to share it with your board. Thanks for doing that. Whatever you do. Thank you. Thank you for being with non-profit radio. Now let’s go to our panel for great ideas. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen. Auntie Si. You know what that is? It’s the twenty nineteen non-profit technology Conference. We’re kicking off our coverage right now. This is our first interview of many, many thirty seven to be exact on DH this interview, like all of ours. At nineteen. NTC is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Kicking off with me, our gods piela Jackson seated next to me. She’s CEO of Echo and Company and Marcy Ride. Marcy is founder and principal of wire media Ladies. Welcome. Thank you. Pleasure. What chorus? Eleven. And your topic is staying sharp. How to create an implement. Great ideas. Yes. Okay, uh, let’s start at the end. More. See? What? What do you feel like? Non-profits could do better around, I guess. Problem solving and idea eating. I think one thing that’s important is getting everyone involved in the whole process on DH have it not necessarily coming top down, but getting all kinds of input coming in. Okay, Stay close to you. Might remember. Stay close to me. Okay? Andi, I’m sure you know, subsumed in that is getting the right people involved. Yes. Identify who they are. Okay, uh, got piela anything. You want to kick us off? Yeah. I think when we’ve been working on projects where innovation is the core of the project, a lot of times, what we encounter is that culture is a barrier to being able to drive innovation forward. And a part of that is because non-profits in particular, have cultures where there’s scarce. Resource is, there’s not a lot of time. A lot of the staff is very overworked. And so the idea of getting together and creating space actually create and innovate is very scary. Because if you don’t get the right answer first, then you might actually exhaust all your resource is you might actually not be able to go on to the next idea. Everybody’s tired of the process And okay, so we’re gonna talk about culture now. This was originally presented at the Harvard University Digital Innovation Academy. Wass by the two of you Just bite me first. Are you okay? In the true spirit of ideas, this is a pilot. Yes, awesome. And also, in the true spirit of Tony martignetti non-profit radio, which is big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. So if you want the ideas that emanated from Harvard metoo listening to non-profit radio and here’s the proof. All right, um, you, uh let’s take what you’ve got you what you want to encourage strong, strong ideas like every day. This is not just for your strategic plan or something like that. This is every day, pre idea creation. So how do we start to make this culture shift? Thinking about breakthrough ideas every single day? Yeah, yeah, I think the most important thing is that ideas don’t come from a predetermined spaces or predetermined settings. So a lot of times, what you need first in order to come up with new ideas, is a spirit of play in a spirit of spontaneity and often times when we’re in meetings, we have laptops were sitting around a table. Everybody’s in a setting where they’re afraid of being the one, not saying the right thing. And there isn’t a spirit of embracing mistakes. And it’s embracing attempts as much as you have embraced successes. But we really need to shift your setting, whether that’s being up on your feet, it’s changing. The environment is going outside, and you really need to bring in a spirit of play and equal contribution to the table in order to just even start. Okay, this all sounds sounds very good, but how do we convinced our CEO that playtime is eyes really question that playtime is appropriate for our idea. Generation? Yeah, it has to be structured and has to be intentionally set to a goal. So normally, when you’re creating this environment, what you’re trying to do is separate the creation of ideas from the refinement of ideas and picking the one that actually can go forward with limited resource is budget and people. And when you actually see ideas constrained and started inside of organizations that they haven’t done enough prep work, enough research to actually ground the session, you’re going to be having an ideation. And then you’ve also tried to create ideas and edit ideas at the same time, which ends up with too much dress. So, Marcie, I mean, when I was in college, I learned this as brainstorming right on DH the first, the first step in brainstorming was nothing was disallowed. Everything ridiculous. Wild but insane was was not labeled as such. It was written on the board. Is that is that an outdated, uh, brainstorming dead? Now, Marcie, you were just calling it a breakthrough idea generation or what? I think the idea of brainstorming in a group is may be dead and time to move past it. I know that we’ve had some success where people are are individually coming up with ideas. And then they worked together as a group to organize and come to consensus on them. And that works pretty effectively. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. One thing, too, is a brainstorming in the method a lot of people use. It really don’t doesn’t allow people of different types of thinking and different learning styles actually contribute equally. Why’s that? Oftentimes it’s a group of people, and there are questions put out to the room. And then there’s a sort of ad hoc responses to questions. But a lot of people don’t answer well. They need to take time to reflect. They need to have structured activities, to think, to frame their thoughts and then be able to contribute it back to the group. So what end of happening is people who are really good at responding quickly, who are more extroverted and who are better at thinking out loud, dominate the setting and the people who are actually more cautious and they’re thinking and reasoned. And maybe it’s quieter. Researchers don’t have space, but often times have the best ideas, okay, and so you really have to structure your setting. So how do we do? Martin? Marcie, can you start? Give us some tips. How do we structure this to empower everyone equally? I mean, there’s there’s different ways to do it The way loud on non-profit radio when I was what I was thinking of earlier and sort of referring to earlier is something that we do with branding. Exercise is where it’s pretty simple, but everyone has time to write down their ideas on sticky notes. For example, if they’re trying to figure out, you know, how do they come to consensus on what the personality of the brand should be like? And so they have time on their own to come up with ideas in their own way, and then they and the next phase is they get together as a group, and they work together to figure out how to organize these ideas into categories and which categories are the most important and in the process of doing it, they have conversations about why they’re making those decisions, and it’s really effective in getting to consensus with the whole group that includes often like the CEOs down to the the marketing assistant. Some of the audience. Sometimes it works really well. Okay, um, stick with you, Marcy. Had you mentioned the CEO? How do we get our CEO onboard with this is culture change. What would you say? Way? Tell listeners to say what one of my favorite sort of go twos is. There’s a psychologist called me. Holly Chick sent me. I and don’t ask me to spell it, but he way, having asked you to say it a second time, he came up with the concept that’s called Flow. And it’s the idea of being so fully engaged in something that time passes freely. You don’t notice the passage of time on DH, you do it very. You do your activity very well because you’re completely engaged in in the moment on DH. Then there’s information. There’s data somewhere that shows that you could be more effective. When you’re in a state of float, you get more done. You do better work. All right. What if our CEO says sounds very metaphysical, but how are we going? Toe You wanted me to give you want You want me to get our team into a flow. What do I need to do? What we need to do? Well, I think that’s what God Cielo was recovering Teo earlier about having a structured format that gets them there, and that puts them in the moment. Okay, if you can also drive if you can drive that conversation towards operational efficiencies. So what actually happens when you make this culture shift is teams are happier. They feel more productive. They’ve created space to come up with better ideas. They also embed research into the process that we didn’t really talk about. How you prime yourself for the session before you start. But the idea is to go out to your audience, understand the mission, understand the people you’re serving, actually get input from them so staff can be representative representatives of the end constituent in the room. What actually happens is staff tends to get way more re engaged in the purpose of the organization and the mission, and, uh, and then they start putting in more qualitative hours during the workday. So it’s not showing up in just doing the usual work, which is very important. It’s creating space to do work better and being really connected to how you actually scale the mission a little bit more and you can actually map it. Tio outcomes that looked like revenue looks like costs. It looks like decreased costs and recruiting staff and keeping staff. It looks like decreasing the amount of time that is spent to get better ideas. And then it’s actually having a spirit of trying a lot of things. Picking the best ones, replicating them, maturing them and turning them into programs so the organization itself can grow in a non haphazard way can grow very intentionally around the efforts. All right, I got to take a break. Tell us the passive revenue stream. You want fifty percent of the fee. When cos you refer process their credit and debit card transactions with Tell us and all that fifty percent of those tiny fees it adds up. That’s the long tail of passive revenue. You don’t work for it. That’s passive. Get passive right passivity. The passivity of the revenue. The Explainer video is that Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us, watch it, then have the company’s watch it, then make your ask. Would they switch to tell us and then tell us we’LL we’LL work with them, right? You go to Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us now Back to Gutsy Ella Jackson and Marcy Ry Way. If we’ve made the case on DH, we’ve we’ve had our first. This’s not just like a single session. It doesn’t sound like you know, you said some people function very well in one hour setting. They think rapidly, and other people need Teo. Be more considerate. So we’re talking about something that’s not just a one, a one off ideation session, and then we moved to the next step or something. You know, we start going down. It’s a longer term. Yeah, Usually the cycle is a research and prepare. Then idee eight. Then concept test concepts figure out which ones are the best. Replicate those and then a couple times, and then the ones that prove themselves than mature them and continuously start that cycle over again. That can be a sprint in a matter of two weeks. Or it could be a longer term programme in a matter of months or a year just depends on the complexity of the problem that you’re trying to solve. Okay, and then eventually the goal is that this becomes very natural. And so that that then you are doing this in every day, decision making. But it’s happening obviously more, more rapidly. We can spend two weeks on every decision. Yeah, and then the other thing that is very beneficial for a leader is a part of the process. Is teaching staff to learn how to pitch their best ideas to leadership in a way that leadership can then go pitch that to board members and thunders and things like that. And so you actually want at the end of it, you want to go knothole process so you can prove your pilot. You can pitch it to the executives, they could go pitch it to the board, and it’s founded in research. So when the board is arguing about the marriage of that or questioning the merits of that, they’re arguing with numbers and evidence and not with people and ideas. So you do want to push out of the ideas phase into evidence, but the process allows you to do that better. Okay? What brought you to this work? Initially? A good question. It only took me twenty twelve minutes e-giving dancing question out. I’LL try harder next time. It’s marrieds are getting So I started in journalism when newspapers were falling apart. Somebody said, Who wants to learn? HTML and I did, and I ended up in technology. But I ended up in technology doing big Web strategy for organizations that had thousands of people, lots of micro sites. They kind of had homegrown technologies. Everybody had their own budget. All of the technologies were decentralized, and people were had an appetite to consolidate all of that. And I started in organizations trying to do it from a Strat from a consulting perspective. And it didn’t work because you have so much change embedded in the process that if you don’t do the work to get people excited about process and excited about the ideas, they’re not going to be able to understand or commit to the amount of change that you’re asking them to go through. And so I just got really excited in that I studied design thinking, which, uh, it’s a It’s a way of solving unknown problems, using a lot of co design with people who are going to be the end beneficiaries of the solution and it’s actually built on improv. So the the for the, um, the art form of improv has a central concept. And yes, and exactly why do I have done in problem taking improv classes? And I use it in my stand up comedy? Yes. And you surrender or fishes? Yeah. Alright. And so it was just and I’m involved. I’m on the board of Washington Improv Theater in D. C. I’m very close to that work. And I could mind at UCB Upright Citizens. Yeah, And in these working Alan Alda actually created a organization. I think it’s called the Center for Compassionate Communication. We goes into mostly scientific organizations, teaches them improv and completely sort of read, helps them re imagine the way they communicate with each other and the way they communicate externally. Kruckel mostly. What drew you to this work? What drew me to it? Yeah, it’s kind of the opposite track. I guess I started working more with smaller organizations that had few numbers of people that needed to do a lot with a little on DH. So it was starting to think about how can we get there pretty quickly and then, you know, my background is more designed, technology oriented. So I kayman things from that perspective and started seeing that some. You know, some of the problems pretzel is talking about where change management issues on the on their staffing side and how their processes were creating problems for the project we were doing. And that got me interested in trying to fix it. Yeah. Okay. And so you apply this for your clients? A wider media, Okay? No, the ones that are willing, the ones that are willing. Okay. Okay, um see, choosing implement. So let’s talk about choice now choosing, choosing the options that we’re goingto way. Just choose one. First of all, we’re really choosing one of the many or we’re choosing half a dozen. How do you know who knows best this? I mean, that’s where I think pitching, pitching it is important and making a case for who is going to serve, what the outcome is going to be and why the commitment of resource is worth the eyes worth the investment. And so I can I think it just depends on the problem you’re solving and whether or not you want to try different things in different context to be able to compare them. There’s a lot of different types of research that you can do in our field. We kind of break it down before the first one is explorations. If you’re just trying to explore a concept, you do kind of many things that you, Khun, see how people would solve problems in their own world in their own words. And then the second one is, once you’re kind of headed in a direction, you do assessment testing, and that’s kind of figure out. You come up with a concept, and how close did you get it actually solving things the way that they that someone might want it to be solved, and then it just gets more formal from there. Once you have a finished design, you test that once it’s live and in production, you test that. So it really depends when you’re in this exploration phase. You wantto do the right amount of exploration to hit the appropriate audiences. We always do and use their definition first. It’s like there’s no point in doing anything unless we design for the people who are going to be using it, and that could be fifty different types of audience groups that could be too. And so that kind of dictates the how much work you do in that, um, who can give me Marcie, Can you give me some examples of problems that were that you’ve seen your client’s solve using this method? What types of decisions are we talking about? Well, I mentioned earlier, like coming up with branding characteristics for a new brand or something. Another one might be So something we’re working on now actually is women organization has lots of different kinds of information that they want to share with the world. And they want to put that on a website or some kind of application. How do you structure that? So that the people that need that information can quickly and easily find what they need, you know, and you couldn’t think of a million different ways to organize data or content like that. But doing the right kinds of testing at the right time really helps you with the audience focus, right? Really helps you make sure that you know the person who needs the particular piece of information gets it quickly and easily. Yeah. Um, you said in your session description that the best ideas are often undiscovered. Why why is that? Is that because, Well, you explain me. What? Why why do you say that? Um, well, we see it in different ways in different organizations. But my my general sends is that the people who carry some of the best ideas because they were the closest to the people that are being served aren’t in the room. When ideas are being created on and you don’t you don’t necessarily know by instinct. Who in your organization has the best ideas? I think the best thing you can do is an executive is go ask around for who kind of is the most pioneering who’s willing to drive things forward, who’s really good at people and marshaling resources towards a common end who’s really good at just guarding that. The innovation aligns to the mission. You have to have all the four types of those people to be able to get to a good idea, and oftentimes you’re just leaning on leaders to come up with a Biggins up inspiring idea or your leading on on leaning on staff or overworked a busy and they don’t have time. We use a formula where we kind of look at the amount of time that staff members are spending on different types of ideas. There’s bread and butter ideas that’s like your daily to do list. I always say that that’s like a goldfish. It’Ll grow to the size of the pond, so if you have a million hours, your to do list will grow to a million hours. The second type is building boost ideas, and so it’s creating a little bit of space to do something that requires a little more coordination, a little more effort. And from that, you often times can get what the third category is, which is breakthrough ideas. And that’s like big ideas. You spend a lot of time developing and nurturing, and most organizations are just stuck in bread and butter. And so there’s not enough intentional time carved out for the other two types. Time for our last break text to give Diversify your revenue by adding mobile giving. It’s not on ly for disasters. It’s not only for small dollar. Donations is not only through the phone company lots of misconceptions. You can allay those you can. That’s the Lei is more for fears. You can slay those misconceptions you can. Ah, eliminate. Seems kind of easy, but you can’t eliminate the misconceptions. You do that by texting NPR November Papa Romeo to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine Just do it and the misconceptions will die. We’ve got several more minutes for great ideas with Nazi Ella Jackson and Marcie Ross marchenese doing doing a lot of nada. Anything you want to add. What? I mean she’s right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, Information. Affirmation is a part of the process where it fits in rewarding people for being courageous and putting an idea out there that they’re hesitant about because the bad ones are as good as the good ones. The bad ones prime you for a better one. So it’s funny. I spoke on a panel two high school girls in stem on Monday before I came here, and they asked us a question. What will we go back and tell ourselves in high school? And mine was Don’t measure your don’t measure yourself to the success. Measure yourself to the attempts because we’re hardwired to learn from mistakes and failure, and sometimes we just get obsessed with what success looks like. But it’s better for us to try a lot of things and write things. And eventually we’LL we’LL hit a couple that are really good. I should have asked you, Is there a client story or two you want to share? Yeah, I’LL try to share one short red quickly So way work with organization in Washington, D. C. Called the Newseum. They’re pretty well know. Yeah, so they focus on their mission is to advance media literacy and education about our First Amendment freedoms. And years ago in twenty fifteen, they indigenous to just kind of redesign. A very simple website had about ten lesson plans and some PDS and some videos and way got in there with them. We did some ideas, ideas, princessa sessions, and we asked them why what teachers were looking for. And teachers were really preoccupied with not being able to teach current events in the classroom with curriculum that helped him deal with sensitive subjects and then with the materials to help them teach it. And so we started doing a ton of exploration, and we realize that the museum was sitting on this goldmine of thousands of artifacts that had to do with historical references to politics and media and also contemporary references. And when we went to talk to teachers, we realized that we needed to not redesign the thing that we were hired to redesign. We needed to create a completely new platform that was one hundred percent dedicated. Teo serving media literacy curriculum teachers in the classroom. So they making all these resources available to them for free indexing. Okay, Yeah. Driving. Yeah. So we pause that project way. We created a platform and a brand. So before they were just a department and then they were the Newseum. Ed, Uh, they ended up getting a major funder commitment for five years to be able to build this platform that’s still growing. And they went from eight hundred users to one hundred thousand users in about three years. How did the breakthrough process contribute to that exponential growth in usually So there was like a very cinematic moment where I walked down a hallway with something on a sticky note. It was like we need to do this, and honestly, they have. They had a vice president of education, and I think she was a director at the time. She is exceptional at pitching ideas and leading her team. And she took that idea on the sticky note. I think, to the CEO of the Newseum and said, We need to do this This is central to our mission. If we don’t do this, somebody else will do it. We’re going to miss the opportunity. I will lead it protects her effort into it. I will find my own funding for it. I just need your support. I need to be at the executive table to have conversations about this. I need to be ableto talk to the board and understand their support in this. And they did. That kind of shifted the department. She ended up sitting thie executive on the executive team and she really did. She was a visionary and she drove it forward, including this decision making process. Yeah, including this decision making process. So we launched a like what we kind of call the beta of that platform and twenty fifteen didn’t have enough resource is and we knew that we were to achieve what we needed to We needed a road map. We wrote that so she could go get funding. And then we actually relaunched it this year, a major version release again with a lot more committed funding. And so it’s it’s growing from there. I hope it around for a very long time. Um, Marcy, how can we be sure that the idea that is going to be implemented remains intact through this through this? I don’t wanna call a tortuous process, but through this through this process, like, how do you ensure that you stay true to the idea that with the solution that was chosen through implementation, I think that comes down, Teo, the idea of having a structure and a specific process that you go through and you stick to it and you don’t let you know random outside ideas come in and derail that you stick to the formula that you’ve decided to use from the start. Um, we still have another, like, two minutes or so together. What, uh, what more can you say about you? Have a ninety minute. How long of the sessions on our or ninety minutes? Fifteen. Okay. Somewhere in the middle. So you got You got seventy five minutes on this topic. What? What can we say for another couple minutes? Yes. Oh, I am going to be fun. Yeah, so? So majority of the session is going to be a game, and I feel like that’s really important because you have to be able to bring a spirit of play and fun into it. Okay? And it’s going to be a man activity that helps you figure out you have a listener’s listeners can’t be on the game. Okay, so what else can we talk about this topic that listeners can benefit from? So it’s based on a model where there are four types of ideas and you can think of it as a ladder and you have to run your idea of the ladder. And the first question is, Is it useful? Is your idea useful is something that you can move forward If it if it’s yes, then you go to the second question. And that is, uh, is it rare? Is it valuable or is it rare? And then, if you get it, if it’s no, you’re you’re filtering out your ideas. If you get a yes on the next is is it difficult or costly to replicate? Can you only do it because there’s something about you and your resource is where you can achieve it. And if you get yes, you go to the last one. Which is is it designed for lasting value? And those air Four questions you can ask about every single idea. And what you’re trying to do is weed out the ones that don’t hit all four questions. Yeah, would you say Yeah. Yeah. And then the ideas, Teo, the idea is to present your idea to Piers or to other people involved and get their input on whether or not you’re asking them those questions. You’re not asking it of yourself. You’re asking the other people you’re working with. You’re asking this team right in each of these four questions. Okay? Yeah. And then what? Do you have a minute or so That what happens if multiple ideas? Well, then do. Then you start to co implement, right? Yeah. Move them all through the process. Yeah. Here, you pick one that seems to have the most merit. You’re going forward with that one? Yeah. It is kind of like the U size, the decision to the organization, But I think just going through that exercise will get you either a stack of all those really lasting value ideas or not. Okay, well, don’t leave it there. Thank you very much for naming my pleasure. They are gods piela Jackson, CEO of echoing company on Marcy RAI, founder and principal of Wire Media. You’re listening to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ninety seethe uh twenty nineteen non-profit Technology conference in Portland, Oregon, on this interview Like all our nineteen ninety seon reviews brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us next week. Maria Semple returns. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant capital P by Wagner’s Deepa is guiding you beyond the numbers. Gregor cps dot com by tell us credit card in payment processing your passive revenue stream tourney dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to four four four nine nine nine our creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scots. Dine with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other ninety five percent Go out and be great lorts You’re listening to the Talking Alternate network e-giving Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network? Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. 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