Nonprofit Radio for February 3, 2017: Grow Your Sustainer Revenue & Protect Your Donors’ Data

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

I love our sponsors!

Do you want to find more prospects & raise more money? Pursuant is a full-service fundraising agency, leveraging data & technology.

It’s not your 7th grade spelling bee! We Bee Spelling produces charity fundraiser spelling bees with stand-up comedy, live music & dance. It’s all in the video!

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

 

My Guests:

Allison Weston, Chrissy Hyre: Grow Your Sustainer Revenue

(L to R) Hyre & West  at 16NTC

You want more sustainers? We’ve got the formula: Multichannel. Upsell. Benchmark. Avoid attrition. The panel is Allison Weston & Chrissy Hyre, from Chapman Cubine Adams + Hussey, and Sabra Lugthart with The Trust for Public Land. This was recorded at the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference.

 

 

Tracey Lorts & Joshua Allen: Protect Your Donors’ Data
(L to R) Lorts & Allen at 16NTC

You don’t want to be the next headline. You don’t want a fight with a donor over whether you compromised their credit card number. We’ll keep you safe and in compliance. Also from 16NTC are Tracey Lorts and Joshua Allen, both with Greater Giving.

 

 


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

Vertical_Color
View Full Transcript

Transcript for 325_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170203.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T23:41:13.912Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2017…02…325_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170203.mp3.878948250.json
Path to text: transcripts/2017/02/325_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170203.txt

Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into vou care. Arai assis, if you wormed in with the idea that you missed today’s show, grow your sustainers revenue you want more sustainers we’ve got the formula multi-channel up, sell benchmark avoid attrition. The panel is alison weston and chrissy hyre from chapman, cubine adams and husi and sabra lugthart with the trust for public land, this was recorded at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference and protect your donor’s data. You don’t want to be the next headline. You don’t want to fight with a donor over whether you compromised their credit card number. We’ll keep you safe and in compliance. Also from sixteen ntc are tracy lorts and joshua alan, both with greater e-giving tony, take two seventeen and tc responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. Wee bey e spelling dot com here’s, our first panel on growing your sustainers revenue from the sixteen ntc, welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference with the convention center in san jose, california. My guests now our chrissy hyre alison weston and several lugthart chrissy is see you’re strategist at chapman, kyu buy-in, adams and pronounce all those hyre directly did even cubine you did? Yeah, i should have asked you before, but we’re rolling now. Alison weston is, uh, also with chapman, cubine adams and yep. Okay, what do you do there, though? Does have a title for you. I’m a digital account executive. Okay. Excellent. And say piela oneaccord is associate director of annual giving at the trust for public land. It was a very simple one. Thank you. We love everything documented here correctly. Thank you. Before we start with shot out swag arse crack item for this interview is from cornershop, cornershop, creative it’s ah it’s vegetables. We’ve got sure that’s an eggplant got tomato stress balls no pair stress ball also. But all the vegetables items are not stress balls. We have a banana pen. We had a chili pepper osili all from cornershop creative. So thank you very much. This goes into our swag. Pile ilsen would you help me budged? And those items put him up front. There we go. Oh, the implant. Okay, but all this way, swag pile. Thank you very much. Okay, ladies. Let’s, get serious about sustainers now, sabre, you have to depart a little early. So when sabelo leaves it’s not because my questions suck or anything like that because you have to go because we’re running a little behind. So let’s, start with you. Make sure you get. Yeah e-giving for some time. What is the problem that non-profits are not getting things quite right with sustaining don’t? Well, first, i’ll preface that i’m a client of cch that’s, right? I think we’ll give my organization has an example before i started working at the trust republic land way just didn’t have a sustainers program in place there nobody we didn’t have a dedicated staff member. Um, well, you know, sustainers air worth so much in revenue. So, you know, we did all of these things we work towards that teo grow our program and really recruit sustainers so i think, really the bottom line is is over time when you build your sustainers program, it just generates so much revenue for your organization so it’s worth focusing on okay, we’re we’re for some reason we’re not what we what we alison, what do we not quite getting right about building our sustainers base? I think a lot of regulations do get some things right. I wouldn’t marry you. What herself not getting quite right, i think you know, a big factor for continued, most like sustainers growth online is continue testing so there’s a lot of things to do with donation forms and, you know, i think once you find something that works, that doesn’t mean it’s going to continue to work. So i think one thing we talked about in our sessions, they was keep testing online and keep holding it on things in your donation form and making sure that, you know, you’re continuing to grow and try new things, okay, chrissy, if you want to add to our overviewing this point, i think, you know, maybe two things that i would add to what these ladies have said that, you know, having organizations make sure that they’re taking a multi channel approach to sustain a recruitment that they’re using all the same channels. That there, soliciting one time, gibson for sustainers recruitment and then really evaluating on the back end. Making sure that once they go to all of the trouble of making sure that folks have become monthly donors, that they’re staying monthly donors. And they’re staying engaged in the organization. Why do you think some organizations aren’t taking st multi-channel approach for sustainers that they are for other types of dahna with what’s happening disconnect? Well, i think that, you know, i think that people get a little bit overwhelmed sometimes by, you know, the number of thing are the kind of logistical set up that it takes to start a sustainers program, and so it seems, i think sometimes like, oh, the easy way to do this would be just to do it online let’s, just sell this through email let’s just do a light box, let’s just do it digital ads, you know? And that seems like kind of an easier kind of entry point into sustainers e-giving whereas you know something like telemarketing, for example, which is what i really focus on with my clients can feel a little bit scarier, a little bit more, a little bit bigger, maybe a little bit tougher to bite off, okay, yeah, i think also for a lot of non-profits data is just a challenge, even just getting everything set up in the back, and i know sabra, you had a lot of leg work to do before you got started so i would say, yeah, just getting your house in order before you can even get started and keeping it in order and keeping your data clean. It’s a big challenge, especially with this scene. E-giving okay, all right, so let’s, start with our multi-channel approach to sustain. E-giving now, of course, we’re talking about monthly monthly. Sustainers is that right? Is that we’re all so everyone’s on the same page, okay, monthly sustainers huh? Our multi-channel approach are we trying to convert existing donors to sustaining or we try to require new donors? Sustainers or both, you can do it all, you can have it all. So, you know, i think that’s sort of the lowest hanging fruit is converting the people who are already connected to your organisation as donors and two monthly givers. I think that a lot of organizations also find tremendous success with kind of warm prospects, online activists and that kind of audience and then certainly alison and sabelo could speak to this, but one of the things we find works really well, digitally is using sustainers e-giving is an acquisition tool. Yeah, so i mean, i think there’s, the biggest factor we’ve seen in converting to see here, has been doing a recent cso like christie said, making sure that you’re getting people that sustaining ask after they’ve made a one time gift anything there’s a lot of ways to do that online, trust me publicly, and they do, you know, a few different things. One of them is a rolling email out to you one time donors, ten days post donations so that’s a good way of you know, reaching out to people when they’re current. In recent donors, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Dahna oppcoll okay, let’s, let’s, drill down. But what does that email saying? Thanks them for their gift? Sabelo what does it say? Yes, so the again the emails sent out ten days after the after donor-centric thank you, basically, thank you very much for your recent gift that builds a case for support of why sustaining gifts are so important and it’s all wrapped around the mission of our organization at the end, it says, would you please consider becoming a monthly donor and that’s about what’s in the mail and a link to click to, of course, yes, all of the links to other clip now, when they get there, do they also get a written acknowledgement for their one time give if in our organization, if they give online, they get an automated and they get an automated email and sustainers get a different kind of automated email. So okay, we’re not going out there, and i’m still the one time donor. If they make an online gift to get a in ordinated email on our ana made it basically, thank you eat tax receipt online and then if they don’t, it makes a gift off line they get, you know, they get mail ok in that in that offline, direct mail are they also invited to become sustainers in direct mail? Yeah, so we do dio way doo doo like a b r e slip and direct mail asking has a sustainers ask, and we do do some segmentation and email like we recently sent out a tax receipt that asked people to become, you know, if they had recently given a one time gift, asked them to become a sustainers consider becoming a sustainers and i think that that’s actually really speaks to kind of some of the multi-channel approach that we’re talking about, which yet, you know, it’s, not even just which channels you’re inviting people to become a sustainers through, but branding the program across everything that you send a donor so thinking them with that, you know, and making that sustainers asking, just kind of keeping that in the forefront of their mind as they go through. Sort of their donor life cycle. Okay. Uh r r one time donors asked again before their other once on gift if they hyre turn down the first sustainers nasco they then asked, like i said before there before their other annual gift. Yeah, good question we solicit our month. Well, we are monthly donors on a limited mail solicitation track, so we only send the mailings three times a year. Um and yeah, so we will when it that time is appropriate. The year and campaign. We will ask them to make a one time contribution or we’ll ask them to upgrade their gifts. So we do. Sorry, i’m kate reverting back to monthly donor is not one time your gifts. Sorry, my question was, how often do you ask one time donors to become sustainers you ask them the first time after ten days after their first there one time gift, how often after that? Before their next one time. We don’t have a player friend. Yeah, we don’t have a plan for that right now. Okay? Alison and christine, do you think that is advisable? Or should you just continue to wait until they made their other? Their next one time? Well, one of the things that we find to be really successful is again, kind of, you know, you’re asking the multiple times, but maybe you’re not asking them in the same way, so you’re, you know, you’re thanking them for their gift and there’s this kind of soft asked for them to become a sustainers then you send them an email and explain the program to them and ask them to become a sustainers that way, then you call them and ask them to become a sustainers and then you follow up from that and say, thanks so much for listening. Is this something you would consider so it’s? Not it’s, kind of a cohesive strategy that asked them multiple times, but it’s not necessarily like these kind of random, you know, isolated asks it’s, sort of an overarching okay, okay, that make sense. Yeah, it sure does. And allison, to your point about the importance of data earlier now, obviously way. Have to have good data for all these channels. Christy just described we need a phone number. I need their e mail. We need accurate mailing address, right? The importance of good data. Before we could do anything. Yeah, no, that’s that’s. Definitely right. Okay, way also need to know piggybacking on that how they want to be communicated with. So suppose somebody doesn’t want to receive phone calls. Yeah, i mean that that definitely has to be taken into account. You don’t make the donor injury. You want to communicate with them in the channel that they prefer to be communicated with thin. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that someone who donates online is only ever going to donate online that’s. Why i keep talking about the multi-channel approach. So in fact, forty five percent of the stayner’s that we see recruited into programs are actually recruited as a sustainers by a different channel in the first channel, they gave a gift to the organization, and so we brought them in through mail. But then they became a sustainers through the phone or online, or they came in on line. And then we made the ms sustainers half convert. They’re giving channel. Exactly. Okay, use the right language that you did. It was very krauz. All right, so we still have a good amount of time together. Sabelo before you have to. Go now. Yeah. Okay. She was taken by your sorry have really thank you. Nothing duitz conversation. Okay, thank you for saying that. Even if not sabelo breaks down. So it was like that. All right, thank you. Say thanks for joining us. Okay, now we’re now we’re just left with the consultant. So now we’re in a big, big loss. I did play e-giving fund-raising. Well, it was not it was not serious. Where should we take this next? Right. We talked about how i’m gonna convert at a game. What else have we, uh, not talk about that? We should in this hole multi-channel topic. Campaign ideas. You have some campaign ideas? Yeah. I mean, i could talk a little bit out some different things that we’ve seen we’re calling, why don’t you? Okay, i hold out on non-profit radio. Sure. So i think one of the things we’ve seen work really well with a lot of clients in a lot of different areas has been sustainers up so light box. So that means basically, on your one time get form, somebody makes the onetime gift and before their gift actually process is a light box pops up. And says, hey, things for your let’s define like box everybody doesn’t know whether it’s opaque shoretz i’m not okay. You know, when you go on a site and kind of the site gray’s out and then something pops up to the forefront that’s basically what? George in jail on non-profit radio yeah, try to help you out of it. Sorry, so you can still see through? You can still see through it. So pictures yeah, so picture this you’ve made, you’ve made a gift, then you know you’re you hit process, and then the screen kind of gray’s out in a box pops up and it says, you know, has a nice image and it says, you know, thanks for your gifts before we process your one time gift, would you like to turn this into a monthly gift and you can click no or you can click x and x out of it, and you’re one time gift will still process. But if you could yes, then it will convert to you become a sustainers so you’re catching people right at the moment when they’re making a gift and you just get people to convert and we’ve seen that works really well for bringing a new sustainers, but also doesn’t depress one time. Revenue does not. Okay, okay, what do we know about what? What amounts to ask them to? Would you like to make this gift to sustaining you? Well know, the mountains is different. So in the back end of the light box itself, there’s kind of an ask string tree, so basically gives a range. So if you make a gift between, say, five and fifteen dollars, and you ask for a five dollars monthly gift or, you know, if you kind of move up and you make a thirty two fifty dollars, gift your ass for a little bit hyre maybe, you know, fifteen or twelve dollars monthly gift so it’s kind of tiered. So you’re making sure that you’re asking for the right amount from people what we call that strategy. That’s the sustainer, upsell, lightbox okay, sustainers yeah, i terminology, yeah, as long as you define it joining way don’t like talking about it. Criminology sustainers upset like box, of course, who doesn’t know what that is like? Everybody who listens to cop radio does now that you know, you just treyz down. So i don’t think so. Sustainers upsell white-collar christine woman a woman who sat in your seat before this interview was so that was misty magog a chrissy hyre christy, what other campaign strategy can you share? Well, campaign strategies? Um, you know, i think that as alison alluded to one of the most important things that we see for organizations to remember, no matter what channel they’re trying to recruit, sustainers through is really the recency of the gift. So i think that a lot of times organizations have a little bit of a fear that if they asked too close lead to this is to the person’s original gift that it’s going to seem ungrateful to be like. Well, now, could you do ten dollars a month? Like ten days? Seems to be okay. Ten days a spine. In fact, the most successful phone programs we do call people within thirty days, which that’s really close? I mean, they just gave a gift. But you really want their commitment and their passion for the organization to be top of mind. And any time in the thirty days, not the next day. Not the next day. No, typically. The window starts kind of two weeks after their gift for two weeks to thirty days, you’re safe in asking for sustainers gift after someone made a one time yep, absolutely and of course, you know you want you want to thank them, you want to appreciate them for the amazing donorsearch es are but that’s, you know, that’s totally acceptable. And i think the other thing that we talked a lot about today and that we could go into a little bit more now is sort of what to do with sustainers once you bring them on, and so i think that you know, sustainers support is great because it’s the stable monthly revenue, but it’s not a set it and forget it kind of strategy and so there’s a lot of work that has to be done once you actually bring these folks to the table to become monthly donors, to make sure that they stay engaged and passionate and interested and that they continue to give and you don’t lose them because their credit card expired or they just sort of became disa passion with your organization. Okay, very important too. Yes, yes, we don’t, we don’t. Want to lose? You don’t want to lose our donors. What do we know about out? After someone becomes a sustainers do they then keep up their their annual giving, too? So this is something that a lot of organizations kind of go back and forth with. Do you continue to ask sustainers for one time gifts? Do you try to just upgrade their sustainers gift, like what is the perfect mix of howto results in them? And so one of the things that we found is that, you know, thes air your most committed, passionate donors, and so it is completely acceptable to ask them for a one time gift. A lot of folks use a strategy called the thirteenth gift, where in december they’ll ask sustainers to give sort of the thirteenth gift of the year. If you have, like, a key matching gift campaign or something really urgent happening within the organization sustainers air great group of people to reach out to on dh, then organizations have seen success upgrading sustainers is close to their original sustaining gift is three months after they give it. So you know, there’s there’s really no hard and fast rule it’s kind of about testing and finding what works best for the organization. Okay, even okay, things. That that sound unusual to me, even just within three months of their first sustainers gift it’s okay, in some cases to ask the upgrade that absolutely so we worked with a really large non-profit that has an extraordinarily large sustainers program and what they they tested six months versus three months in terms of a sustainers upgrade and found no difference. At three months that is many people upgraded the donor’s weren’t displeased to be getting called again so quickly that folks felt really engaged and excited. They kind of under you just always have to explain what their support is doing. Why is that additional three dollars, a month so important? Allison, could you help us with went to be thanking our sustaining donors? I think is pretty well recognized don’t think them every month, but do we thank them every year? What’s appropriate? Yeah, i think i think they definitely need to think them, but not overthink them, but i think something else that you can do more often is kind of keep those engagement touches going, so send engaging emails that aren’t just asking people for money, sending them something that’s going to keep them tied. To the mission of the organization and kind of keep the organization top of mind without asking them for money every single time they’re opening an e mail from you. Eso whether that’s a quiz about your organization reading article, you know something, something fun like that to keep them engaged, it informed, i think, is really important and sustainers going, of course, be lumpkins that along with everyone else on your email list on your contact list, but i think you know it’s nice at the end of the year at the beginning of the year to send out a nice impact email or an impact, you know, whatever you’re doing to show, um, you know how much their support meant to you over the year and all the stuff that you were able to do because of all the, you know, consistent support that sustainers gave you okay? So generally recognized that end of the year is is the best time or if there’s, another key bowman in your organization? I don’t think it’s a problem to thank donors, but i think you can do really consistent engagement emails, teo, to keep folks, you know, tied to your organization okay, way too little a budgeting conversation. Okay. Dahna what? What are expense items that we need to factor into creating a sustaining sustainers? Provoc well, i think that in some regards and allison definitely jump in. I think that when you think about sustainers recruitment, you almost have to think about it in the same way you think about acquisition, and so, you know, you’re going to invest in acquisition, but it’s a long term kind of long game strategy and sustainers recruitment is the same way, so you know that obviously one of the biggest cost is making sure you have the back and systems to process the spokes monthly, that you’re not gonna lose track of that. And, you know, all of that is part of the organizational budget i would assume and then additionally, you know, making sure that you are kind of realizing that if you’re starting a program from scratch, this is like the long game, this isn’t something that’s going to pay off in three months. This is something that you’re looking at in some cases, if you really want to build a large program, the big net is going to happen. After a year, maybe two years, maybe three years, depending on how big you want to go. Okay, so you gotta be in it for a longer term, right? Any other budget type factors? Allison, you want to jump in? No, i think you pretty much well covered it, but i think, you know, if you’re sending out e mails, you obviously have to have a sierra. So i think a lot of the stuff you know, most organizations already have but it’s a matter of using it for recruiting sustainers but definitely i think the biggest hurdle for a latto organizations is getting that peanut processing set up. Okay, got a meat processing that you trust? Are there payment processors that you like? You want to give a shout out to particularly well. Okay, what about strength? Yeah. So, you know, i think that this isn’t so much about the actual monthly processing, but, you know, there’s there are a lot of great tools out there right now, like stripe or a man tive that help recapture credit card information before it lapses, which really helps organizations that are trying to build sustainers program stem. That sustainers attrition on. Dit could be a really huge factor and turning around sustainers avenue. Okay, now, what was the second advantage vantive used to be? Lytle now, it’s canton. Okay, so we know that when credit cards laps, we’re likely to lose sustainers donors so just kind of some quick stats i can share with you, so i work with pretty large sized political action committee, and they’re very committed growing their sustainers program, they spend a lot of money investing in this new sustainers growth and so this year or in twenty fifteen, rather we saw this pattern where we were exceeding our budget projections for new sustainers revenue every single month and our sustainers number was decreasing every single month, so just, like, made no sense, right defied logic, so we dug in to see, you know, what’s going on? Why are all these people falling off the file? Because the problems really attrition and of those folks who are falling off, eighty percent of them were falling off because of bad credit card numbers. So this was sort of during that time where we all got this new chip cards or their expiration dates were expiring, theyjust were getting new cards and we weren’t able to contact them quickly enough to get that new credit card back on file. So with this process all of a sudden, you know, we implement this in december, and we go from losing thousands of dollars every month to seeing, like, twenty three percent growth since december through february. Okay, so what are we doing in advance of the credit card lapse? So a little bit technical and that’s? Not really my bailiwick, i will tell you, but so basically, what thes companies do is they contract with banks so that they have a relationship with the bank to update your credit card before it ever even expires. So, for example, if you have a netflix account, you probably notice that your credit card never actually expires. No matter what. You know how many cards your bank is sending you in the mail and that’s because they’re contracting with them directly to get that information so that you, the consumer, don’t have to go in and update all of that. Oh, i see. Ok, so it’s all happening transparent to you. It happens automatically, right? You never have to decide. I’ve given enough. To this organization, exactly it’s a customer service convenience that actually saves organizations a lot of money. Yes, it’s also non-profit exactly. All right. All right. We still have a couple of minutes left. Zoho some benchmark benchmark’s is for sustainers growth. Allison, help us with that. Yeah. I mean, i think it depends where different organizations are in their sustaining journey about growing their program. So i think, you know, when folks are thinking about starting or growing at sustainers program, you have to kind of set your own benchmarks that i can throw it a couple stats. I think you know, some things to consider. You know, overall good, healthy benchmark would be about having ten percent of your revenue comes from sustaining, giving. So, you know, that varies from organization organization, but i think that’s kind of ah, national benchmark it like a good back of the napkin calculation on that. I also think some other things to consider are just, you know, benchmarking and kind of setting some goals for how much revenue goals you want to have come from a scene e-giving and also thinking through, you know, looking at how much you want to spend to acquire these donors and then what’s the return on investment. How long are these sustainers staying on the file? Are they lapsing off? Is there a certain channel that’s? Not really working very well. Maybe honing in on, you know, tweaking your strategy a little bit. So i think there’s different things and it’s it’s going to be different for every organization you know, not everyone is the same place in there seeing e-giving program. But those air something’s toe consider. Okay. Okay, christy, i want to leave us with i think that ultimately what i would say is that while building a sustainers program is an investment, it ultimately is so worth it. It is probably the number one thing that organizations khun due to help grow their files. Folks who become a credit card sustainers will stay on your vile for thirty seven months or longer. They’re your best prospects for plan giving. They’re your best prospects for mid level upgrading. And they are ultimately kind of the core of your fund-raising once you develop that audience is ideal, concise, beautiful. Thank you, ladies. Thank you. Ok, they are christy hyre and she’s, a senior strategist. At chapman cubine adams and she was right. Okay on. Alison is also there doing marcus ellis, a digital account exec. You can’t exactly fucking watch, ladies. Thank you. Martignetti. Non-profit radio coverage of sixteen non-profit technology conference san jose, california. Thank you so much for being with us. Protect your donor’s data is coming up first. Pursuant. Have you checked out their white paper overcoming the major donor dilemma? It’ll help you. The research is free. It’s valuable it is. I can make it any simpler. This stuff is helpful. This one, the overcoming the major dahna dilemma covers identification, engagement and cultivation of new major donors. So you’re finding them, you’re getting them active and then you’re cultivating for the solicitation. Overcoming the major donor dilemma it’s at pursuing dot com you click resource is and then content papers. We’ll be spelling spelling bees for fund-raising have you checked out their latest video, it’s from a night that raised money for help for children raised over one hundred ten thousand dollars, the organisation needed help. It turned to re be spelling. You can see it all documented. They’re documentarians it’s all there on the video at we b e spelling dot com now for tony’s take two, the twenty seventeen non-profit technology conference so we got two interviews today from twenty sixteen. I urge you, i can’t be seat you because that belongs elsewhere, but i urge you, i implore you to check out the twenty seventeen non-profit technology conference it’s march twenty third, twenty fourth, twenty fifth in washington d c there’s always there’s like one hundred or more there’s more than one hundred smart speakers, smart seminar leaders they’re all talking about how to use technology smarter, more efficiently, brighter all just better to help you do your work and is not only for technically oriented people mean, i go and i interviewed people and i can hold my own in the conversation so you can too on you don’t even have to converse with them. I mean, if you don’t talk to somebody and then just don’t talk, just listen but it’s not on ly for geeks, which is no longer a pejorative now than it was when i was growing up. But now it’s ah, people boast about being geeks but it’s not only for them, so if you’re using technology and ah, you’re odds are you’re listening on a smartphone, so guess what xero embedded in your life using it to do your work accomplish your mission. Then i would check out twenty seventeen and tc get latto all the info at and ten and tn dot or ge and that is tony steak too. Here’s, our second panel on protecting your donor’s data. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc this is also part of ntc conversations. We are at the san jose convention center kicking off our day to coverage. My guests are tracy lorts and joshua. Alan tracy is community marketing manager for greater e-giving on dh joshua is not listed in the program. How come? Last minute addition in addition, okay, joshua, tell us your title and your organization. So students engineer with greater e-giving what kind of engineer? Solutions solutions engineer with greater e-giving okay, they’re seminar topic is super boring. Crazy important p c i and protecting protecting your donor’s data. What? Thank you, joshua. Welcome. Thank you. All right, we have to acquaint listeners with what? P c i is i’m going to assume that a lot of people don’t know a post. We have jargon jail on tony martignetti non-profit radio, so we want to start off with you in prison in george in jail. That was tracy, since you’re most concerned about prison justin, maybe you’ve done time, so i don’t know, but you’re not not it’s. Not about jargon. Jail. All right, tracy, what is p c i? So p c i is an acronym that stands for the payment card industry. So it’s, a set of standards that’s put forth by all major card brains around the world to ensure a set of security standards are implemented by everyone involved in the card processing services. Okay, security standards, if you’re involving card processing, is it also dependent on what kind of data you save and whether you save data? Yeah, s o p c i has a set of data security standards called tell them the twelve pc ideas s going to get more darken. And thats the data security standard. Okay, so it’s a set of twelve requirements that are kind of a minimum standard for anyone involved in card processing that you have to meet those standards in order to be compliant with pcs. Okay, joshua, you’re doing this session so safe to assume that a lot of non-profits i don’t know what pc is my assumption, correct? They may not know what it is or they know what it is, and i’m not sure how to start so that that’s what our purpose far session is to is to get people acquainted with with what they what they should start learning to know and then and protect themselves and their donors. Data. Okay, okay, what is it? What is the best way to get started with learning pc? I mean, is it just a matter of twelve gss is or is there a better way to make entry into this for people aren’t familiar? Yeah, you need to know more if they are a little familiar. Yeah. There’s a four different levels of pc i compliance and it’s, based off of the number of transactions that you’re doing on a yearly basis. S oh, that would be the number of people that would be impacted if your organization were to have a breach so larger businesses processing, you know, billions of transactions annually have more stringent requirements than someone on ly processing in the thousand thousand transactions per year range. I’m so most, you know, most large large companies air having to do really, really strict requirements for p s p c i but if you’re a smaller processor, you really just have to complete what’s called the self assessment questionnaire that’s put forth by the p c i council and you have to do it on an annual basis and it’s basically as self verification that you are complying with all the requirements of pcs. Okay, let’s, just take one step back. Joshua if people maybe you’re in a smaller organization on, they don’t really want to take this on which we’re going to be talking about for the next twenty minutes. They could just accept gifts by check. Yeah, that’s always a possibility. Absolutely they could. But as we’re as we’re going into the digital age it’s very important that organizations open themselves up to the other fund-raising streams, including credit card payments and okay, i just want to put it out there. Yeah, just briefly, you could. This really scares you. And it was really small shop. You could just not accept credit card donation, right? But you’re missing out on the town. Of donations. Okay, this is it. It’s. Really? Not a big scary idea. You know that twelve requirements are really simple. Concepts like having a firewall in place. That’s one of the twelve. So they’re things that should be a part of your security process and your security policies is a non-profit to begin with. So they’re things that you should already be doing. It’s really? Just about ensuring that all of the checks and balances are in place. Ok. Ok. What are what are the four different categories? There’s twelve? No, twelve other. There are four categories based on the tear, your revenue, your number of processes for per year. Yes. Okay. You just lay out what? Those forty years. You could just tears called him. Tier one tier don’t know the terminology. I gotta be on the terminology. Okay? Right here. One through four. There’s. Some specific data. So i think she’s. Yeah. So okay, a tier one eye merchants going to be processing over six million transactions annually. That’s, that’s. A lot of, um a tier two. Going to be processing one million to six million. Tier three is twenty thousand to a million and then tear. Forest. Twenty thousand or less. Okay, so we would expect most to be three or four correct, vast majority for yes, okay, but we’re looking in the three and forty years, yes, level for most for most. Non-profits. Okay, all right, we’re just going to go through the, uh, that twelve. Yeah, we can ok. Have all these twelve applied to the tiers three and four, they d’oh okay, no matter what, okay, okay. It’s, just that simple. Should we just took him off? We can. Twelve. Yeah, okay, is there anything else we need to any other ground work we need to set for people who don’t know this stuff like me and anything else i should know before we go through the twelve? Well, i think it may be important that even though you do these twelve steps, it does not automatically prevent you from being breeched or unable to continue with these steps, right? But this is the industry standard is the industry standard. So even if you are breached, you can at least say we’re meeting the industry standards. But we still got, you know, we still got our data stolen or reached, right? It’s it’s not the it’s, not the end. All prevention from right, there’s. Almost nothing. I mean, if you have a bad guy in your or bad woman in your office nothing’s going to prevent that or right out of your office or out of it, so okay, all right, well, we can’t prevent one hundred per cent. We could be industry compliant, and we’ll get into some trouble. If we’re not industry complaint, maybe we should just have a little a little more motivation. What happens if you decide? You don’t want to do the pc adhere to the pc high standards? Are there civil or criminal? Sametz people there can be yes, definitely if you if you have a breach and you’re not complain with p c i or even if you are and you still have a breech, there are some potential ramifications. There’s actually quite a if you um most notably there’s some fees associate it that that your non-profit can receive on and there could be legal action taken against you. Obviously, if there was something that came up, that was ah, a major issue for your organization. So you’re better off. Obviously, if you’re our complaint can’t find them, tracy can’t okay. Joshua said, fees it’s a lot of information. All right, give us an idea of a penalty regularly. Regulatory notification requirements that just be like letting people know that you had a data breach, which is not good. You’re bad organization. Weren’t you weren’t complaining? Definitely. Loss of reputation, loss of donors, potential financial liabilities like fees and fines. And in some situations, litigation could be taken against you. Okay. Okay. And and all those situations, you’re in a much better position if your pc i compliant. Definitely. Okay, alright. Still more motivation. All right, let’s, start with our, uh we got the twelve. These are the twelve gss requirements. Yes, right. And what is the ss again? Data security standard. That a security standard requirements? Yes. Okay, s the number one isn’t install and maintain a fire wall pretty commonly done across most organizations. But obviously important to keep in mind that it’s up to date and that you’re continually checking on its security and making sure that it’s working accurately. Um yes, but you don’t have a three year old firewall. No, no. That’s. Not gonna do you any good. Okay. Ah, number twos do not use vendor supply defaults for system passwords. Okay, let’s, dive into this a little more now. Passwords. Don’t you? What you want to amplify what we should be doing with our passwords. Don’t use password. Wei had panel yesterday. Password? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, six and p word or so there was another one. Password with a zero for the o that’s. Really common. We actually cover the top twenty five most commonly used passwords in the last year in our presentation. Right? We’ll roll a few off these. They’re all bad people do not use the first one to say this is a list of what not to do with your password. Not what to do? Yes, exactly. Please don’t use these this’s good information for your daily life as well. S o so some of the top passwords are one, two, three. Four five six password one two three four five six seven eight corti more number strings football baseball welcome let me in, master monkey princess, my two favorite that made the list this year were as solo and star wars solo and star wars. Yes, alright, so they’re related. All right, bad passwords don’t use these, don’t you? You’re opening yourself up means the top twenty five passwords in the country. You’ve got to have something a lot more secure than one of the top twenty five, and you have to bet that that hackers that are out there no thes passwords are commonly is and all the other, you know, simple variations like using numbers to substitute for letters in the top things, you know, just don’t do it for god’s sake, how much plainer can we make it? And if you have passwords protecting your donor’s data, don’t use it across all of your your different systems that use that your your organization that is very important as well you’re saying have different passwords for the different software system? Absolutely all right, so don’t use the user default. I mean, don’t use a default password. What else was buried in that one, tracy there’s, little more. I thought, um, that was it. Don’t use vendor supplies, defaults, orb system, password. Now you’re decent password. Joshua wanted to read the next one protect card stored cardholder data. So this’s big now, yeah, that starts going into your files and being sure that the information that you do collect is relevant and important, too, maintaining accurate files, handup, but keeping them in a locked, stored area where they tried to help me out here. What was the research on this one? You want to cut back your risk of someone getting access to cardholder dahna? Obviously on dso, you wanna make sure that if you were using digital systems that use encryption, truncation are masking of card numbers, which means masking would be if you are, if you have a set of credit card numbers that your entire string except for, say, the last four digits, which is the most commonly used, wait up tio mask a card number, all of those air exes except for the last four Numbers so that would be 1 way to protect to the data that you’re storing. Let me ask a threshold question similar to my, you know, accepting check questions. What have you do? Credit card processing? What? You’re not storing credit card numbers, you’re still going to be able to benefit from no credit card transactions, right? But just don’t they have to store the numbers with the advantage there you don’t. So i would say that most on profits or using some sort of external service to actually process card data they, of course, as the merchant in that situation are having they do have access to card numbers for a short period of time when they’re transitioning it from there, their hands into their processors hands isn’t microseconds it’s, it’s seconds, but you never know what could happen, and you also never know, especially if it’s in a digital situation who could be watching what you’re doing that also includes the last four digits of a number or the expiration date as well. That all pertains that cardholder data. So even if you’re only storing the last four digits, yeah, you have to do this. We’re going to make sure it’s secure, okay, so in storing all sixteen and storing all only for no difference, you have to do all these things. All right, it’s. All right, so all right, so back to my simple minded question, maybe. Do you do you need to start, right? So i’m asking, do you need to store it? You’re saying you do have it in your possession for a short time, the microseconds or whatever that it goes to the processor that’s still considered you storing it right? And how did you get that data? To begin with that’s? The other questions to come encrypted. It has to come in in some fashion. So i mean, could it be a donation envelope that had that information written down on it? What do you do with it after you’ve processed it donation envelope? Can you shred it? What if you just shred it? That would be a great way to get rid of it, okay? Or burn it burning well, about having that’s always dramatic, but it actually works. We’ve talked about having burned piles in the office. You have a pc. I burn party. You could end of every week. Yeah, yeah, but you just want to make sure that it is completely, you know, it’s completely out of your hands, you’re no longer have access to it anymore, especially when it includes all of that. Really important cardholder data. Okay? And we’re talking about address name? Just a number. Correct. Not just the card number, but they’re mailing address their zip code. That’s the kind of stuff you do need to save because you wanted to mailings. Correct? Yeah. And and most of the time, you know, that kind of information is stored on under management system and those those systems are secure, so you obviously have to have access to them using a log in and password on dh. That information generally is going to be going to be secure as long as you’re using a really good password. Obviously, yes, way covered, that one. Don’t go back now way, have twelve to cover. I’m sure we’re gonna get it, but they all were with each other. That’s, your sister, all right. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guest directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m jonah helper, author of date your donors. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Oppcoll Joshua read another 1 please. The next one encrypt transmission of cardholder data across your open public networks. So if you are a larger non-profit working, you know, with the main central office, you want to make sure that any of the cardholder data that you are sending is encrypted, you know, meaning you’re using. No, sorry. What of encryption protocols are in place? Couldn’t find the words are okay. All right, so you need to know. You need yes. You need some kind of expertise to know that you’re encryption. Protocol is correct. Yep. Okay. And that includes obviously working with your particular vendor that’s processing your cards for you that the system that they’re using is goingto also encrypt the data for you. Okay, that was a two way street that they’re encrypting also. All right, what else we got? Joshua let’s. Go ahead. You would protect all systems and gets malware and regularly update antivirus software program. So that mcafee system that it’s always bugging you in your in your bottom, right hand corner to update. You want to make sure that you’re continually keeping up to date with those. Oh, and updating to the latest software, especially with your your your donor management system software as well. So any bugs could be worked out routinely and kept up to date on this. Okay, okay, that was that was malware was an anti virus that is now wearing it tomorrow. You want to make sure they’re europe today and that that that system wide, teo. Obviously, a lot of you know, large organizations have hundreds of computers that are using that network. So you have to make sure that every single device that’s accessing your network is secure and updated on a regular basis. Okay. Okay, tracy want teo, don’t you give us a couple all right, number six, develop and maintain secure systems and applications. S o that’s just basically saying, you know, there are tons of vulnerabilities out there to your security system, and the landscape is constantly changing, so you need to make sure they hear up to date with, you know, vendor provided security patch is kind of like what josh was mentioning with your dahna management system that you’re keeping it up today if there’s any updates that come out with that on dh, that all systems have software patches and are just, you know, you’re managing and maintaining them on an annual basis. Okay, this sounds like another one. That is a pretty common sense. You should be doing this anyway. Yeah, irrespective of your this storage or not, of your credit of credit card data. In-kind yeah, big cognizant of who has access to that. Data in your in your office as well. Okay. Okay. Area right. And what machines it’s on? Yes. All right. All right. S o the number seven is restrict access to cardinal data by business. Need to know s o that just basically means that the people within your organization that have access to cardholder data is limited. And then it’s on ly the people that really need to know what that data is. Eso you just, you know, you want to have someone who’s, the authorized person to take care of of those transactions and that it isn’t open to just anyone, you know, accessing that information. And you really should just generally have a deny all setting for things like processing cards, denial, setting. What does that mean? It just means that that for the baseline, no one has access to it. But that there is, you know, one or there are one or two people that do so the default thie developed is no one touches him. And then we work up from there. Correct? Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this should be in the hands of you’re donor-centric gift processing department. Wherever that is, someone on the development team, right? But, you know, like the director of development and the vice president for institutional advancement, do they need to know credit card numbers? Not necessarily not know. Yeah, probono depending on the size of your organization. That’s true, that could be the gift processors. Yeah, director development could be the gift processor. It’s alright, but yet fair. Okay, let’s. Give joshua shot hyre let’s. See, i identify and authenticate access to system components. So it’s really important. Tio this hyre goes back in and ties in some of the other, the last two. You wantto uniquely hold everybody accountable for their actions. So the people who do have access, who are processing the cards, you have a system set in place where they have the checks and balances needed to hyre go through the crucial data and systems that can be traced back to them. So a lot of the love, the systems that that are in place, you can you contract who actually process that credit card to access that person’s record because just record in their dinner, we should be able to track treyz back all all transactions and viewings and things like that all right? Yeah. Okay. Is that standard in in aa cms zsystems? Absolutely. Yes. You just have to make sure, obviously, that when you set it up for your organization that you make sure that each person has their own unique logging. So, like, for example, some limes, it’s like admin doc development that’s not really going to be effective and tracking before people could be twelve people. Exactly. Disaster. If it’s more than one. The chicken finger point yet. So all right. You right. You have to have unique log. Yeah. E-giving each person their own unique identification. Okay, report. All right, go ahead. Who’s. Next restrict physical access to cardholder data, which is ah, tracy is a really good example of this. When she used to work for a nonprofit, she is really embarrassing. Way won’t name the non-profit, but she probably could tell the story better, but i attended this organization’s fund-raising ah, year before i started working for them. And they tried to kind of daisy chain a system together to be able teo capture credit card information. A check in it failed them on of that night and their internet dropped and they couldn’t collect card holder information to process card payments for purchases. Made it the event. So they walked around with donation cards and just had people hand right in all of their credit card information on these donations. Pompel pretty common practice, you know, non usual, however, start working for the organization years down the road. I’m going through some old files and what i find all of the donation forms with everyone’s. Credit card information from that event, which was three years previous was laying in an old just laying in an old file disaster. God, numbers, addresses everything. Expiration date, everything. Security codes. Exactly what you don’t want to have happen. So i you know her. I can attest that. You know, this kind of information needs to be out there in the nonprofit world. And organizations really should be considering following the pc. I guidelines. You should be just doing it. Yes. Okay. What a fine. Oh, my god. I got a chill. I don’t think it’s the air conditioning today afternoon, the air conditioning came on. I would say maybe was the air conditioning. But today is it’s not blasting? Yeah, that’s. That’s really is chilling it. Is what did you do? I immediately started all of it. Yes, absolutely. I think they had a burn party, fire bond fire departments to be on call. And what about now? Did you bring it to the attention of of management? They’re absolutely yes, yes, that changed their yes behavior. Yes, definitely. You know, a lot of things. A lot of things have changed since then. It was just, you know, it was an oversight on someone’s part along the way, and it just kind of got for gotten and in the shuffle. And, you know, it was just one of those things that happened, and you just have to it does have to, you know, really you don’t you want to minimize the risks of exposure to that kind of problem within your organization. Let’s, move on. Go ahead, joshua. You want to track and monitor all access to network resource is and that called cardholder data. So if it is, if you if you are storing the physical copies of the last four digits of the number with everything else blacked out or anything you want, teo have that restricted access in a locked filing cabinet with one person having the key and you want to know who has it as well? Okay, excellent locked access, one person, one person. Qi is pretty common sense. Pretty simple, but, uh, they’re easy to spell out and miss one of these. Yeah. Okay. Now what if that person ah, is sick for a day? You know, should narrow. Shouldn’t be some redundancy. Like we have multiple people who consign checks should there be a second key holder so that if a person is out for a day, we need to access that? Yeah. You know, we definitely encourage that you don’t want to give all of the keys to the kingdom toe one person. There shouldn’t be one individual person that’s accountable for all of that. That data and access to that data so definitely should be more than one person that that’s that’s managing. But they’re still has to be controlled, like, maybe have to sign in cracked, you know which, which is an honor system. Okay? Or or maybe now, don’t we use this to, um where this where this data is stored in this physical location, maybe there should be a camera focused on that spot. Just like we have cameras that focused on the desk where the cash gets counted. Right? Ok, so that would be a method of determining who’s been in there. Okay, go ahead. Um, did you just do ten? Ok, alright, eleven regularly test security systems and processes test. Okay, how do we do this? So, obviously you know what? You know when you wanna have a security policy in place, but if you don’t test it to make sure it’s goingto work it’s not going to work s so there could be a potential gap somewhere along the way that you missed on dh the only way they’re going to find out that it was mrs by testing. All right. So what are we testing? We’re pretending there was a brief if you have that camera set up, are you actually actively looking at the camera? Occasionally. Are you testing? Were you testing your checks and balances? Right? Orders the video get get re recorded over every twelve hours. Exactly north. Maybe. You know, maybe seventy two hours is okay. I don’t know how long it may be. Should be a week. I don’t know, but yeah, if it’s too. Short, the video is worthless. What else? What else? I mean, how do you how do you run these tests? What do you what? You’re testing s o i mean, you want to test all of your, you know, excuse me, all of your software components, those need to be tested on a regular basis on dh that i’m that your network is continuing to be secure, that you’re updating and changing passwords to be able to access your network on you know, this is a this is ah, one of the areas of the pc i that’s kind of it it’s definitely the most important because lots of people don’t conduct those scans. I’m but it’s frequently overlook. Okay, how many do we have left on? I was eleven or twelve. Alright, maintain a policy that addresses information security for all personnel. Gotta have a policy, right? Absolutely information. Security name just took off a couple of things and then we got to wrap up. That should be in your policy. Yeah. So you want to make sure that you have ah, usage policy for technology. So if you’re giving access to computers to your users, you want to make sure that, you know, you have things in place to ensure password security. So you want to have restrictions on what passwords can be? How many characters it has to be on let’s. Joshua would give the last word another tickle. Fight him on this number twelve. And this needs to be policy. Yeah. This needs to be incurred grunts with your privacy policy that that that you display with your donors as well like that, they know that you’re being good stewards of their data. Okay? Data as well as biographical and all the other demographic info that you have on them. Absolutely. Okay, we gotta wrap it up there. That’s ah, tracy lords, community marketing manager for greater giving. And joshua alan is an engineer. Solutions lucien’s engineer that’s also a greater e-giving. Okay, tracy. Joshua. Thank you very much. Thank you. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur profit technology conference. Thank you for being with us next week. A new accounting rule that you need to know. Do not roll your eyes. We will make it interesting. I will. I guarantee it. This is going to be with the huge tomb who’s been on. The show before. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enable pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows. Social media is by the excellent susan chavez, and this cool music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five.

Nonprofit Radio for January 27, 2017: Successful Tech Projects & Inauguration Social Networks

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

I love our sponsors!

Do you want to find more prospects & raise more money? Pursuant is a full-service fundraising agency, leveraging data & technology.

It’s not your 7th grade spelling bee! We Bee Spelling produces charity fundraiser spelling bees with stand-up comedy, live music & dance. It’s all in the video!

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

 

My Guests:

Smita Vadakekalam & Sandy Reinardy: Successful Tech Projects

(L to R) Smita Vadakekalam & Sandy Reinardy at 16NTC

Up to 70% of technology projects fail. How do you manage tech change to avoid the fail? Smita Vadakekalam and Sandy Reinardy have the strategies to prepare, communicate and manage change in your project. Smita is at Heller Consulting and Sandy is with the University of Wisconsin Foundation. We talked at the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference.

 

 

Amy Sample Ward: Inauguration Social Networks

Amy Sample WardAmy Sample Ward returns to reveal what went on behind-the-scenes to make social networks buzz this month. She’s our social media contributor and CEO of NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network.

 

 


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

Vertical_Color
View Full Transcript

Transcript for 324_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170127.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T23:35:57.094Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2017…01…324_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170127.mp3.934162824.json
Path to text: transcripts/2017/01/324_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170127.txt

Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week it’s caused you. They are a cr m platform causevox dot com and at causevox you, they blogged four fund-raising podcasts that can help non-profits of any size now, the other three were something about fund-raising authority and tiny, messy non-profit sparks like that, but for non-profit radio, they’re fourth in the in this block post said they said all encompassing, quote, if there were parts of the other three podcasts pod casts that appealed to you than twenty martignetti is non-profit radio may be perfect, perfect martignetti podcast has gained popularity and for good reason if you have a lot of time to listen, you’re in luck. Non-profit radio has hosted over three hundred episodes today is number three twenty four. By the way, like, thieves have ah, markham of specificity. Three, two, one for today. Touching on industry news, best practices and bright new ideas and quote thank you so much. Industry news. Um, yes. Check. Because last week’s review we have twenty sixteen forecast and the twenty seven. Twenty sixteen review on the twenty seventeen forecast who writes this copy? Look, i wrote twenty sixteen forecast i needed i need an intern so badly that was the news industry news best practices, of course, every guest shares best practices bright new ideas, we have ideas, let’s not get carried away break new, i don’t know, but we got good ideas cause you thank you so very much for including non-profit radio in this podcast roundup, congratulations on being our listeners of the week cause you oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with rubio. Sis, if i saw that you missed today’s show successful tech projects up to seventy percent of technology projects fail how do you manage tech change to avoid the fail smita ve arika column and sandy reinardy have the strategies to prepare, communicate and manage change in your projects. Smita is at heller consulting, and sandy is with the university of wisconsin foundation. We talked at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference and inauguration social networks. Any sample ward returns to reveal what went on behind the scenes to make social networks buzz this month plus will have ah couple of the topics inauguration related she’s our social media contributor and ceo of intend the non-profit technology network on tony steak, too. Empower your volunteers responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. We be e spelling dot com here are smita arika column and sandy reinardy from ntcdinosaur sixteen welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc that’s, the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference hosted by intend the non-profit technology network. This is also part of ntc conversations. We’re in san jose, california. Of course, in the convention center with me now are smita vatikay column and sandy reinardy, and their session topic is change workshop managing change to ensure a technology project’s success we’re gonna get to that very shortly. First latto highlight are on ten swag item and tc swag item of the of the for the interview you want each each session, this is a smartphone shortbread cookie from ray’s mohr. And then, of course, the obligatory napkin for wiping your hands and and your lips very gingerly, it says yea for those of you don’t have the benefit of the video and this was in our swag pile. Oh, that’s. All right. There it is. Okay, ladies. Um oh, let me give you a proper introduction. Smita is vice president of professional services at heller consulting and sandy is managing director for gift and constituent records at the university of wisconsin foundation. Welcome drinking. Thanks for having my pleasure. Thank you for indulging my swag swag moment. Should i presume, sandy, that you had a ah project. You’re a project manager on a project, a tte university, wisconsin foundation. Sort of. I came. I came in on the tail end rape as we went live doing a full implementation of a serum system website. General ledger, a portal for our campus users. Whole thing. And, uh, i came in about six weeks before we went live and have been working a lot on post project and reflecting on how ah, things maybe could have gone differently. And what’s thinks he did. Well, alright, some introspection. Okay, now. Oh, and, sweetie, you were involved in this project or with the university? Wisconsin or no, i wasn’t. It was not involved in that project, but actually, sandy. And i have worked together at heller for many years previously, and both of us were working with many clients and we would talk about this topic quite a bit, and i’ve kept in touch with sandy, and we would just sort of talk about lessons learned and what she’s experiencing at the university of wisconsin and the things i’m learning from the consulting perspective. So we just love this, you know, exchanging ideas about the topic. Have you done the workshop already? Yes. Okay. Went well, yes. Okay, i think now i read in your description that seventy percent of technology projects fail. What is that? When something fails, meet oyu there’s, our consultant on the panel with something fails? I mean, is that? Does that mean it just doesn’t work? That’s a great question in terms of what failure means, i’m going to take the generic definition of failure being it’s the project’s not meeting timeline, scope or budget and i wantto and any one of those and actually the part that i like to focus on it’s also not meeting employees, adoption or usage, which, really to me, is a key driving, you know, metric for success. So project users hated exactly yes face in thinking you don’t like. Ok, so you have ladies you have strategies for not well helping to minimize the likelihood, i guess i guess you probably can’t prevent it, but minimizing likelihood of project failure is that right? Yes. Ok, where should we start with sandy? Where should we start with this topic? We’re in the convention center and the hallway is noisy. So there’s, no food bins coming by or something you know, but not proper radio perseveres. We don’t care about your mere background noise. Meaningless. You’re very sophisticated audio system here. So you’re here just in the rumbling in the background. Okay, santa grecian rescue. We start with this topic. I think it start with the fact that it’s primarily in terms of change management, it is so people first on this and the because all of our organization’s air made up collectively of a bunch of people who find themselves in different personal positions with relation to change people that are i want to be quick to innovate, and they just you’ve got a lot of energy and they want to always be kind of moving to the next thing, all the way down to people who really would prefer just to more steadily and consistently improve on stuff that they have or and all the way across that kind of arc and organizations than can tend to take on their own profile based on the number of people in the nature of their leaders and things like that when it comes to change and so really understanding where individuals are and how that’s going to affect an impact as you go through a project like this, how you’re going to ensure strong adoption by meeting people where they are, and treating each of those people differently, and utilizing their their position with different aspects of the project because it was a lot in there. Let’s, let’s start unpacked. That’s fine overviews stage let’s. Try to unpack that bit when we’re in the women in the planning stage of ah of a project i’m guessing it’s important who’s in the who’s in the process from the beginning. Okay, metoo my my right. Absolutely. Okay, i think that way you should be in there. Yeah, one of things i like to think about a project and is to think about it, it’s like a campaign, you know, a sandy said, i project is it’s there’s a technology and there’s the people side of it, and if we just concentrate on the technology side of it, the people get left behind. And if you look at change, management is really about it’s the it’s, the methodology it’s the tools and processes to recognize there’s change in a technology project let’s, be proactive and manage it. And so, like you said in the planning part of the project, ideally you’re getting a head start in recognizing that this is what it is understanding who your stakeholders are in a sandy said, those stakeholders range from leadership, those seemed like the obvious stakeholders, and we’ll be business process users. But there’s, you have to really think holistically about your organization and think thoroughly about who is impacted by this change. And in the early start of it, i think it’s good to get buy-in from all of those groups and understanding where they are, sandy mentioned, let me let me just dive into that a little more, the groups you obviously can’t have all the users in in each office or team. Whatever’s going on whatever it’s called that are that are impacted by this, so there has to be a representative should that necessarily be a senior person within that team? Or is that not necessary? I don’t, so i think they’re i think there are different types of state groups and committees there’s definitely, for example, in a project it’s good to have, ah, way of of proving and making key decisions, you know, approval process, which sometimes you need the people who have that power and influence in the organization, but then there’s a equally as an influential and important group, which is your key users and those don’t necessarily have to be, you know, it doesn’t have to follow the organization’s hierarchy, it could be r really a power user or someone who’s going to really be impacted by this change, and they’re excited to work on this project, and they might be the best representative on that committee. So if yes, it’s really important to be deliberate and strategic about the people you choose, you know, in in in engaging them in this project was i’m guessing sandy if they’re not part of the process, but they’re going to be impacted by it, we’re going tow. We’re going to increase the likelihood of the bad adoption that we’re talking about. Exactly. And i think you really have to include people that are sort of on all sides of that rains. You need to have some of the resistors, some of the naysayers, so that you could understand what their concerns are and figure out how you’re going to strategize around that and and kind of take that holistic approach. Okay? Yeah. All right, so you want to have some of the difficult cases in your in your process, you’ll be happier even though even though there’s gonna be difficulty through the process and in the end, you’ll be happier that that they were part of it. Exactly. Okay, okay. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst. Metoo fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Where should we go next after we’ve assembled are our project team basically is what we’re called this group you’re ah, could project team yeah, and then you can get super depending on how big of a project is, you can get a simple as just a team versus many committees and big and infrastructures, but yes, essentially the key people who are going to be involved in this project what’s next? Yeah, i would say, you know, i like to think of the analogy of running it like a campaign. So think about naming the project thinking, aligning it, you know, explaining the why behind why we’re doing this? Actually, actually, if i had to say that’s probably the first step, okay? Because in order to get people engaged in order to get even, funding resource is to do this, we really it’s critical that were very clear about why we’re doing this project, and it should align very closely to the organization’s mission, and there should be a good business case that support set and ideally, you know, it’s clear enough so that everyone can get behind it and can just buy a few sentences, understand very quickly. Oh, this is why we’re doing this change. This is why this is so i think, it’s making sure that’s clear and understood by all parties and you’re nodding a lot, anything from the university wisconsin you won’t share at this point. Well, our project, we really had very outdated systems, and we were the environment that we were working and really changed in terms of the critical nous of the foundation as a fund-raising toe offset ah reductions in state funding and things like that. So it became very critical that we figure out how to advance our capacity to raise money. And while that was fairly clear, i think to most people there needed to be a lot of visioning for people to say, well, this is why in the big picture, what do i need to do in my own role if i raise money for this particular school or college? What are the things that i need to do to engage my constituents and to improve my capacity to work with them and have individual people really picking up on that vision on the why? Why should i do this? Not just why should we do? It as a whole. What does it mean and breaking it down into those specific things? Okay, okay. I can see how that’s going to contribute to end user buy-in exact and that the ultimate you know, we’re all our goal is great adoption and buy-in and exactly all right. All right. Uh, well, shall we go who’s got the next next idea after? Well, you know, you want to continue thinking about it like a campaign. Sure. Yeah. So we got, you know, in lining the vision mission and being clear on the why we’re doing it. Engaging the right people. Stakeholders. Being clear on what your communication plan is your strategy. So, like a campaign, you know what we communicate and what frequency to whom? Throughout the project from the start socializing concept. You know, before the project start socializing this idea with those various groups just so they get understand before it happens. What’s happening. Another idea, too, is once you start telling people about a big change, people immediately think about how is this going to be done? You know? And i think it’s important to build that knowledge up front, or at least show them a visual of, say, if it’s a technology project what that road map looks like at a very high level, show them different milestones, milestones, timetable. Yeah, that’s one way without getting into the nitty gritty. But generally, is this a two year thing? You know, in these, you know, first half of the year what happens generally, you know, because people have a lot of questions as much as you can in the beginning, too illustrate that will just ease people’s fears and anxieties. And also no. Oh, yeah, we have a plan for this. We’re not just diving into this without any knowledge and to set the appropriate expectations around it. Okay, okay, sandy, anything you want to add to that just in terms of the visuals, the before and after picture also something that shows them this is where we are now. This is what’s going on. And this is what it’s going to look like at the end. What their system, diagrams, process things, stuff like that. Okay, to the extent we know from things going change without without qualification. But here’s, the better world vision that we have for you. Exactly. Better vision we have. For your world. All right, all right. Uh, okay. So as we’re moving along now, was there. Sandy was there consulting assistance in the project management at the university? Wisconsin. There was way worked with our vendor with blackbaud on the project that did the implementation. Ahs well, as had external project management involved to help shepherd things through and keep a focus. We’re a fairly large organisation and had were able to fortunately dedicate a fair number of staff some full time on the project and budget, accordingly, to put those resources toward in the investment in the time which was right. Okay, what kind of thing this is? Maybe this should be a question for the end, but i’m too anxious to hear what kinds of things that sandy you came in six weeks before implementation. So you kayman thes e stage. Yeah, well, maybe not, but you didn’t come in. You missed. You missed the blood and gore, maybe i don’t know. Right? So what kinds of things were the people in your your team, the records gift, inconsiderate records. What were they saying about the process that you missed? Right? Well, we had a really interesting situation on my team, which is within my department. I’ve got three teams, and one of them are constituent. Records. Area had really excelled throughout the project, in the planning, in testing and definite, identifying their requirements in vetting the solutions and really working things through and spending a lot of time doing that on the gift processing side. For a whole number of reasons, they were less ready, and there was some some significant change resistance that that had gone on way too long and on, and also just capacity. There was not as much time able to be dedicated from that team. And so that’s been a very different thing that we’re we’ve had to do a lot of making up for that after we’re live, which has been a significant challenge in that area, and i went to go live. Thiss was in august two thousand fourteen, so almost, yeah, okay. All right, so one team didn’t really come along as well as give processing, right? Didn’t come along as well as the others. Okay, sametz all right, so what’s ahh let’s. See what’s next. What other strategies for helping ensure success? Anybody? Sure, i think one one thing that is important is if you’re still in the planning phase. Ideally, you are really assessing the abilities you have in house or the resource is you have to do this project project? Yes, whether you need to be realistic about what you need help exactly. So it could range from budgeting obviously being really stick about that, but also your team. So thinking about from the leadership level even do the leaders have a very specific role to play on the project to the understand what that role is to they need coaching our support. Teo, help them what’s the leadership role in this real leadership programs are now weak leadership leadership of the project team or leadership of the organization. The organization? Yeah, what’s the role of the ceo, executive director, maybe even the board and i don’t know if the board is wrong. Let’s talk about these, so i’ll talk about the ceo maybe sandy has an example, but the board, university wisconsin but at least the ceo because ideally, you’ve already articulated the case of why this is important, why does it aligned with the organization’s mission ceo or someone of, you know, executive director, executive director? Sure, they should be visible and just be kind of, you know, your cheerleader about why this is important, because throughout the course of the project, it’s going to take people’s time, it’s going to be challenging it’s just not going to be a lot of fun. Many touchpoint saying it is a task being added to evaluate wireframes and processes and after test and, you know, i have a job to do too exact looking this on top, all right? So the somebody leaders tryto help us stay on mission on mission, right on goal are mission focused? Yeah, and i think it’s just being vocal and articulating and being there and have a presence of why this is important, that this still this is the reason why we’re doing this it’s lying to the organization’s mission, and then i think that just it doesn’t feel like this is just a project thrown onto this particular department or group, and they’re on their own. But there is support from the organization as a whole that we’re all behind this. We all support this. This is important. And the organization’s i’ve worked with as a consultant that have had strong leadership, who have done that job have been more successful. Ok? And so sandy is there something board hated you? Well, maybe. And maybe not even just at the wisconsin but general engine, the board’s roll. And then if you want to and if there’s a wisconsin story, we love stories. Sure. Well, i will use their story just because i think that we were we had excellent leadership in this regard. From both our ceo president and from our board. They were highly committed from the start. Our our president had been there. This was a major initiative for him and he’s been there for five years now. So this is fairly early. The implementation was about a three year project on dso. He recognised where things needed to shift in the organization and really was pivotal in making that happen. Some of the specifics he did throughout the project is it became a regular part of his communication when you talk about a campaign every week posts that go out on our internet from him with updates for things, there was regularly a section about what was going on in the project in trying to keep people aware of what was going and constant positive, a reminder of why we were doing it and what the vision would be. In addition, our board has technology committee that received regular reports and asked excellent questions along the way they were engaged, and they still are, you know, that they still are interested in seeing the metrics and seeing things and what’s what’s happening on the adoption side at every quarterly board meeting, our ceo does a presentation and an update on adoption and utilization in various things as the outcomes that have come along, which i think is is excellent, so they’re asking for those metrics and wanting to see them is one of the best ways to, i think guarantee adoption is that if somebody at the highest levels is looking at the reporting in metrics and outcomes of what year bilich the of what you’re trying to achieve? So not just adoption for adoption sake, but when you embed those into these air, huh? Hyre measuring our performance in our effectiveness if they’re not looking at that than nobody’s going to wanna, you know, going care to adopt it. So, you know, so that’s going really well, i’m sorry. Did you say the board had a technology committee? They do. They was that for the purposes of this project or there had always been a technology committee. I’m not actually sure how long it’s been in place, but it’s an ongoing it’s a permanent okay, that’s a committee i’ve never heard of. Technology committee looks at the use of tech throughout the brothers, the foundation, right information and tech. Okay, excellent. All right for interest. What else? One of the strategies do we have as we either of you move along our project project process, we got one thing that i would say is when it comes to change resistance and and this is a little bit, you know, maybe idealistic, but the more comfortable that in organization khun b and that the leaders khun b with the idea that you’re going to lose people but some people are not going to be on board with a change in direction and that’s okay, and people mean they leave the organization organization and maybe that’s not going to fit for them and that’s that’s a tough thing. But if you’re really looking out for what’s best for them and what’s best for you, you work you want to see this is why visioning, how their lives are going to be different is really important and what these benefits are so that people can evaluate it. Am i able to really put into this and my ableto continue to be committed to my job? Do eh? Is success in this how it what i view as personal success, and if those answers are no, then maybe you could be supportive and helping them figure out their next step, and because it doesn’t help to have people, of course, and they’re going to hold it down and they’re gonna hold it back and they’re never going to be satisfied. They should. They should leave. That seems really extreme to me. Does that happen? Often? People leave. Do you know if it happened to us was constant? I don’t want to do. I don’t want a new computer system that have to work with, so i’m gonna leave absolutely it having fun. I think almost all of the implementation projects we’ve done you’ve got coming to do. They tend to be people who aren’t very tech savvy. Maybe they’re older. What kind of people do this? I know this is so alien to me. Yeah, maybe i’m narrow minded. I don’t, but i mean it’s, just a new computer system, and i understand it’s going to impact your your your work every, you know, eight to five or, you know, whatever you’re our lever, however lengthy a day you have, i understand it’s gonna be a big change, but quitting a job over it? Well, i think it depends on where people are at in their career to, you know, some people, certainly, if you are, i can completely understand being at a certain point in your career where, like, you know, i did this fifteen years ago were ten and i’m just i’m done, you know, like i’m i don’t have the energy to do this again, learning something new, you can take a long time and khun b really, i know i personally if i have to get a new laptop, i i hate it because i know even as even though i know it’s going to be a week maybe where i’m like getting reoriented and everything still dread having to do it. And so when you’re using a major system and you’re changing the actual way that you’re working, that’s, it’s really exhausting, and so i can i can see where some people, if they’ve been through it before, and they really know what it’s going to take would say, i’m just not up for this right now. Interesting speech. Do you see this? You definitely i mean, i think the sandy brought up a great example. Sometimes it is the organization it’s the time they maybe this person hasn’t been reforming necessary that well. And then when it comes to a technology project everything’s going to change and it’s their opportunity to make sure they have the right team in place because it’s going to be a lot of work. So i’ve seen sometimes decisions about staffing being made once the project starts that’s, the organization leadership bilich making that for the first direct manager, okay, and at the same time, there are some people who just disagree with that decision. And because if they’re usually going to a new system, it might be a completely different platform, totally different set of skillsets and training that they needed a lot of investment for that person and for the organization. So they may decide that this is not where the direction they want to go in and okay, you have to be prepared for this. Yes. Ok. And so and it’s? Not necessarily it’s. Painful in that it’s. Not easy, that side of it, but sometimes that’s for the best of the organization, for that individual and for the project. Okay, wei have just a couple of minutes left now, sandy, you already alluded to pretty well, i mean, like, what we should be measuring in terms of are our outcomes on dh, how we’re going to measure success on this. Anything more that you want to say or that smith so that you want to add about evaluating success? Oh, yeah. That’s a big, big topic. Yeah, i what? What? I will say that it doesn’t happen enough. And i do think that it is important from the start to set out what your success metrics are for the project and because otherwise you decided the outset. Yeah, okay, because it’s otherwise, there’s no way you can meet, you know, every something’s going to give, you know, so just being clear, what are those most important metrics? And actually, sandy had a really interesting thought she brought up in the workshop about being realistic about in the context of a project. Do you have the same goals for your organization? You know, in terms of goals, um, set of activities like are you expecting when you’re going through this technology change to have the same outputs, to have the same fund-raising goals like it might? Maybe you could elaborate on that for sure. I think so. Hopefully when you’re implementing a new tool, it’s, because you’re looking to measure something, you’re looking to change something in the way that you work and how how effective you are doing your work so inherently in that hopefully the tool, whatever reporting or whatever kind of metrics are part of the tool itself, are reflective of that that you’re establishing those in such a way that this is what we’re looking to measure in order to inform further changes in strategy or whatever it might be. How well is this fund-raising initiative working in performance compared to this one? And so inherently in those tools? By capturing that data, you’re seeing adoption and it’s a cycle at that point. So the reporting on the outcomes is helping to inform how do you change your strategy, which you, in turn, use the tools to measure again and to kind of go around so it’s a little bit, but self fulfilling in that way, in terms of success measurements, the one other well, can you make you want to make a brief point? That’s? Ok, that’s ok. All right. We gotta wrap it up chanpreet leave it there. Thank you very much, ladies. Thank you. Sweet about a cake alarm. Vice president of professional services at heller consulting and sandy reinardy, managing director. Gift and constituent records at the university of wisconsin foundation again, ladies. Thank you. Thanks very much for sharing. Thank you. Thank you. And sandy. Especially from the university. Wisconsin. You know, sometimes it’s. Hard to share introspection. Thank you for doing that. Thank you. Thank you for being with us, this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference, thanks so much. Inauguration social networks with amy sample ward is coming up first pursuant, their latest white paper is overcoming the major donor dilemma. The dilemma is the possible gap between data and activity. If your data doesn’t help you decide what to do, which course to take, then it’s not valuable? Yeah, time not well spent collecting it. That is the dilemma, and i actually might call it a paradox that they were this is what they wrestled with and their advice for howto bridge this gap is in the paper, it follows the life cycle of your major donor relationships, identification, engagement and cultivation it’s very much worth reading. Overcoming the major donor dilemma you’ll find it at pursuing dot com click resource is and then content papers we’ll be spelling they’ve got a new video up from the night that they raised a hundred ten thousand dollars for help for children spelling bees for fund-raising there is one hundred ten thousand dollars in a spelling bee because they include live music and dancing and stand up comedy it’s all in the video. They know what they’re doing around today’s. Um, spelling bees, not your grandmother’s spelling these. Check out the video it’s at wi be e spelling dot com now, tony’s, take two. My new video is from inauguration weekend. I was there in d c a met a volunteer collecting metrocards for martha’s table. They strengthened children, families and communities in dc jan’s story as i got to know her is a lesson on empowering your volunteers toe act on your behalf. My video with jan is that twenty martignetti dot com and it’s, the last one with luscious eleven inch hair for a long, long time last one for no other reason you got to check that out. That is tony’s take two. You better do the live listener love because amy’s ample warden, i have a lot to talk about, so let’s get the live love out there. Let’s go abroad. I mean somebody people abroad. I mean, i can’t believe asia always checking in korea multiple south korea, anya haserot comes a ham nida uh, the uk multiple. We can’t see the cities, but we know that you’re with us somewhere in the u k one of those one of the three countries china is with us new year, chinese new year. I can’t say that in chinese can neither cantonese nor mandarin. Can i speak? However, i can say ni hao and enjoy the new year tonight. Most right now. That’s. Twelve hours later is tomorrow night. Is it? Tonight is tomorrow night. Okay. Tomorrow night, because twelve hours earlier. Still tomorrow night. Happy new year. Glad we got that straightened out. Germany, germany is with us. Goodson housing in germany and guten dog. I wish you ah alvarado obregon, mexico. Buenas tarde days. Brazil is with us. Sao paulo, brazil is with us over the gado. Unbelievable. Thea foreign influence non-profit radio let’s. Bring it back. Domestic multiple new york city. I love that when new york new york checks in multiple times. Thank you. Jersey city, new jersey. Right across birthplace of my father in greenville hospital. Used to live on mcadoo. Have jersey city probably different part of the city and from where you are, you’re listening. I would bet. But that’s where he was born. New bern, north carolina is with us. Live love. Always going out to new bern. Woodbridge, new jersey, tampa, florida, houston, texas live listener love to you what comes next? We know it’s the podcast pleasantries over twelve thousand now podcast listeners ten thousand for sure old number over twelve thousand podcast listeners thank you pleasantries to you. Thanks for being with us and the affiliate affections to our am and fm stations throughout the country. Thank you for listening on your station. Whichever day, whatever part of the week that you’re, the station fits us into the schedule. Affections to our affiliate listeners. Amy sample ward. I’m very glad when she’s on glad to bring her back. She’s, our social media contributor and the ceo of intend the non-profit technology network. Her most recent car third book is social change any time everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s that amy sample ward dot or ge and at amy rs ward welcome back, amy. Hi. Thanks for having me back. Happy twenty seventeen, twenty, seventeen. We haven’t chatted that’s. Right. Happy to you. Thank you very much. I note that oren luis is going to be nine months in two days. Do i have that cereal? I believe the twenty ninth is his ninth month. Isn’t that? Right, i remember. I remember, uh, happy, happy nine, happy nine, teo xero another quarter, he will have been a year. I know it just goes by so fast, goodness gracious. Andi, in the meantime, well, a little after that. Ah, but before his first birthday, you have a little conference coming up seventeen ntc we do a small gathering gathering thousand twenty five hundred some like that a little chat, little chat group, community group until i like that. A little chat group of twenty five hundred people go oh, it’s a tight community. You’re going to be the warden in park marriott march twenty third, twenty fifth what can we expect? Well, um first it will be it really will be a packed house were on track to sell out in advance. So if folks are listening and are interested, be sure you register soon, but we are gonna have, you know, obviously by selling out the largest in-kind attendance so that we’ve had before. And that means we’re trying to have the most content that we’ve had. I think they’ll be eighteen concurrent sessions, so tons, tons of speakers, lots of great content and three days full, just like we have in the past on dh will be in d c so i imagine that inevitably there will be a folk using their attendance at the conference is an opportunity, tio go just a mile or so down the street, teo the large white buildings to connect it with some of their representatives and be a part of all all the different conversations that are happening now, too, which i think is exciting that that folks can come to the conference, talk about and learn about all different ways to use technology and their work to support their their organizations, and then maybe also get to be in the seat of our democracy and go connect with their representatives. Indeed, is there any part of the of the conference schedule? That’s ah around organized, so we don’t have a formal advocacy day or anything at the heart of the conference, but if folks are interested and support, we’re happy to help them make a plan for that, but we don’t have ah, because the conference really covers organizations of every different topic and mission and geography, etcetera. We don’t formalize an advocacy day in that way, but like i said, folks, they’re interested and need more resource is there aren’t sure how they would go about connecting with their representatives were happy. Teo, help them all the info is that in ten dot or ge? I believe there’s, we’re in the mid tier pricing now like the early bird is gone now aren’t regular and then comes late, but regular has another couple weeks, doesn’t i don’t yet regular is still open and it may be that we don’t even get toe late registration because we are like i said on track to sell out early. So be sure that you register now also, so that no matter what you do, get the regular rate and you don’t have to pay the late hyre rate yes or risk being blocked out completely and then exactly super disappointed, alright and ten dot or ge, it is an excellent conference all about using technology it’s more smartly, more efficiently to help you focus more time on delivering programs and services. So it’s not just for geeks by any means. I understand what people saying when i interview the man it’s tze for everybody who uses technology, and unless you’re still using index cards and pay a long paper sheets, then you’re using technology, so it is an excellent conference highly recommend seventeen ntc and ten dot org’s check that out. Um, okay, let’s, look at some post inauguration or around the inauguration social networks. You you do some research on the march? Yeah, what you have what you find out, what did you find out? They’re well, so a couple things to talk about. So i think there’s plenty that we could talk about as far as the march that happened last saturday. The women’s march, but just one. But if you are listening live to non-profit radio, which you should right now in dc live is another march happening called the march for life, which is maybe some overlap between those communities, but probably very different communities marching about a week apart and very kind of looking, comparing and contrasting that, too is interesting because there are some things that, you know, tony, you and i have talked about before best practices for engaging your community, calling people to action, things like that, that both marches really did well. And then there are some things that are very different in their approach. So first, kind of looking at the organization of it all. You know, one thing that we’ve talked about in the past, probably multiple times, is that you don’t just want something to exist in one channel he wanted to be able teo be found content wise, schematically wise, everything across different channels and i think bull marches, you know, there’s a website where the domain of the website is the same saying that you’re using the hashtag, which is really helpful for people who maybe don’t know what to look for if they see the hashtag and then the domain of of the website related to that march is the exact same words that is super helpful for making sure they know they’re in the right place on both have that going, though i am not able to go to the march for life website unless i go teo kind of a sub page from a knitter net search results, so i don’t know if their main domain is just got so much traffic that it’s down or what’s happening, but i thought that was an interesting note on that their their website maybe isn’t quite er up to speed there, and then, you know, another kind of and that’s something we’ve talked about before trying to remember when we would have talked about this, but you know, there’s there’s, the role of hash tags in in a campaign in organizing people across different geography is and, you know, i just said the two hash tags that were used were women’s march and march for life, but then there’s also inevitably other hashtags that people start using in association with those events. So then you start to see tweets that have, you know, two or three hashtags, and and it kind of creates, like a niche community within that that larger world and one that i have noticed, justin trying teo kind of pay close attention and analyze the two experiences from last saturday and then the march today is the use of the hash tag, why i march versus why we mark and there were, you know, lots of, um, signs and videos and pictures and, you know, content compilations from last saturday’s, women’s march, where people were trying teo share their story and i think also document maybe the diversity of issues that people were bringing to that march experience with the hashtag why i march and in i think, uh, a crowd setting where there’s millions of people having on opportunity to feel like you’re telling your story, there’s, there is a unique voice that you’re adding to that because sea of people can be really empowering. And i found it interesting that today there’s a number of folks within the march for life world using the hashtag why we march, which certainly you can make the cases, is a unifying message. But i think also loses a bit of that opportunity for it to feel like anyone is that’s, anyone’s, individual story and more than that, um, you know, maybe talking points or thoughts, or kind of larger ideas versus their own experience. That that was an interesting observation on dh may be lost opportunity, right? Feeling like it came from someplace central versus personal personal experience. All right, and we’ve got to wait for a break. Hold all those thoughts, let’s, keep talking, excellent. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. If you have big dreams in a small budget tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio, i d’oh. I’m adam braun, founder of pencils of promise. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Amy let’s, let’s keep comparing and contrasting these really interesting. The women’s march and the march for life going on today i love it. So the next big area and you know this is like the most important things for me when it comes teo technology. And that is how how do we use these tools to organize people? To call them to action and to have that action will be kind of either or offline, and towards riel impact, right? That that idea that social media is just kind of collectivism and no one’s really doing anything is going to be a self fulfilling prophecy. If all you ever ask people to do is click on things, right? So one thing that i was paying attention to, of course, since that is my my area of passion, is how both of the kind of organizer’s behind the marches focused on that. And of course, that means what are they doing ahead of time? How are they planning that? How are they getting consistent messages out, etcetera? And one thing that i was very surprised about is that with the women’s march, there were, of course, you know, not everyone can go to d c so there were marches all across the u s and actually even internationally. And they were all organized to happen on the same day, so that your amplifying that experience it feels like a shared experience, regardless of where you may be participating. You know, everyone in all those different cities is using the same hash tag, etcetera. But with the march for life there are also some some local marches happening in various cities, and they are not all on the same day, they’re kind of scheduled on various days come across a two week spread which i thought that’s again. A huge missed opportunity when it comes to creating that shared experience that people are all kind of in support of and and sharing this message that they would happen on all different days just feels disconnected. What do you mean? Ok, i mean, smart people put these things together, what’s the what’s, the other side of that. Why might they just to extend the time of the messaging and the conscience consciousness? Really think you could argue that it is? Extending the time that also it’s enabling, you know, local organizer teo time the march with maybe other actions or speeches or things that are otherwise happening locally at a different time, i think another reasoning that i’ve heard in general when it comes to more distributed timings like this is that way people have kind of their own day locally, but then everyone’s paying attention to the central event. But i still you know, if i was in charge, that wouldn’t be my strategic think the shared experience stronger. Okay, right you wanted to buy the same day same hashtag we feel the feel the joy and the passion across the world all over the same six hours. Yes, exactly. On dh then the last piece that i wanted to kind of compare and contrast that i thought was really interesting is so so what are they doing to drive folks toe action, right? Like the march is one action but that’s not going to be what changes the hearts and minds of politicians, local and national. You know, etcetera. So? So what? What are the other actions? And because the march for life is happening right now, i noticed and took a quick screen grab that in their live stream they have been flashing up. Ah, tex call so you would, you know, text ah word, teo, a certain short code on dh the word that you’re supposed to texas march for life, but i’ve noticed that had changed for two the number for which i think is very confusing because then your hashtag is spelling out fo r so there’s, i think a quick place where people are going to get hung up, but that’s, what you’re texting into is basically prompt tio notify your congress people that you are pro life. Yeah, so that felt like a very narrow channel to me. Andi in the march for women right away with with all the energy from marches all across the world, they have used the same website to create a centralized action process that they’re calling ten, ten actions in one hundred days. So every ten days, there’s a new action that they’re kind of owning and pushing out from that central march website that, you know, everyone was already going to. And if you look on the march for life website, they also have an action center and at resource is etcetera, but the actions are all outdated. The very top one references ah mother’s day campaign so, again, you knew the march was coming right? It feels like a riel missed opportunity to align that energy with action. And i think the march for women organizer’s have had a very strategic eye on riel action and forward momentum from the beginning. And you can see that in the way that they’ve set up some of those. Come on, you know, both the online content in-kind of the process for getting people to move forward. Okay, wey have to leave that topic there. That’s excellent. Comparing count contrasting. Thank you very much. Way just that we have about a minute left and i wanted to get to something that that you noticed about president trump tweeting from treating from his personal account versus the at potus twitter yes, i find it so i mean, you know, i think there’s going to be a lot of opportunities where we say i have nothing to compare this to and this is surprising. But i have, you know, no idea what to expect anymore. But this is certainly one of those situations, i find it so surprising, i guess, is the word that our president trump continues to use his personal, you know, longstanding twitter account at real donald trump to tweet things out all day long, and that the official potus twitter account is just a stream of retweets of his own personal account at what i think feels very strange on dh. I think what i mean by strangers is a reflection on the voice on the message. You know that our official presidential twitter account is a is a retweet, makes it feel and is reinforcing this feeling that president trump is separated from from that role. If he’s tweeting as himself and the quote unquote, the president is retweeting it, that just reinforces to me a very strange separation. I understand, okay, thank you. We gotta leave it there. Amy sample ward. You’ll find her on twitter at amy rs ward and again, check out seventeen ntcdinosaur provoc technology conference at in ten dot or ge. Thank you, amy. Next week, grow your sustainers revenue and protect your donor’s data both from the non-profit technology conference last year. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. And by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. And we have to say goodbye to him because he got promoted to station manager at que tiene que carbondale colorado. He’s been outstanding. He got us off the ground with the affiliate stations. I’m gonna miss working with him. This is what happens. The best people move on and they move up and it’s. Gratifying and disappointing at the same time. So i i need to hire more lackluster people. I think that’s the lesson. More, more mediocre. Sze, um congratulations, gavin que tiene que better be our next affiliate station. Start the music, please, sam. Congratulations, gavin. And lots of good wishes to you. The show’s social media is by susan. Chavez. Our music is by scots. Dine with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and greet. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful posts here’s aria finger, ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe, add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for January 20, 2017: 2016 Giving Report & 2017 Forecast

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

I love our sponsors!

Do you want to find more prospects & raise more money? Pursuant is a full-service fundraising agency, leveraging data & technology.

It’s not your 7th grade spelling bee! We Bee Spelling produces charity fundraiser spelling bees with stand-up comedy, live music & dance. It’s all in the video!

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

 

My Guests:

Rob Mitchell, Paul Schervish & Doug White: 2016 Giving Report & 2017 Forecast

No need to wait until June! Atlas of Giving CEO Rob Mitchell releases the Atlas’ analysis of last year’s giving and their initial forecast for 2017. Also, insightful commentary from professors Paul Schervish from Boston College and Doug White from Columbia University.

 


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

Vertical_Color
View Full Transcript

Transcript for 323_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170120.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T23:34:06.308Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2017…01…323_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170120.mp3.710337333.json
Path to text: transcripts/2017/01/323_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170120.txt

Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent it’s inauguration day today we have a listener of the week i know which is more important for non-profit radio listener of the week is more important. Karen graham she e mailed me your whole hair thing is cracking me up. Thank you for bringing that joy into my day. Well, karen, thank you for taking such an interest in my exceedingly long hair. Longest it’s ever been in my life. I’m glad it brings you joy and i would ask you to speak to my mother about this, please, because she is routinely reminding me that her salon also cuts men’s hair on dh she’s threatening scissors while i’m sleeping, so i’ll give you her contact info. Ah, now karen is executive director of idealware, which i admire very much idealware dot or ge, i did a video praising them a few weeks ago, which you’ll find at tony martignetti dot com i don’t think you’ll find the video at idealware dot orc, which i’m most disappointed about franklin att leased a link you could’ve shared the link, i thought, but idealware is a very good organization dahna karen graham, executive director congratulations on being our listener of the week. I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with keto acid urea if you rained down on me with the idea that you missed today’s show twenty sixteen giving report and the twenty seventeen forecast no need to wait until june. Atlas of giving ceo rob mitchell releases the atlases analysis of last year’s giving and their initial forecast for twenty seventeen also have insightful commentary from professor of paul schervish for boston college and doug white on tony’s. Take two videos from the non-profit technology conference we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. Wee bey e spelling dot com i’m very glad to welcome rob mitchell back he’s uh, but on the show three, four times or so he’s, the ceo of atlas, of giving, you’ll find that at atlas of giving dot com he’s at philanthropy man or, as i like to say at philantech roman, which he probably gets tired of hearing me say, but it’s my show. I do whatever the hell i want. Is that philanthropy? Hman? That’s the end of it. Welcome back, rob mitchell. Thanks, tony it’s. Always great to be with you. It’s. A pleasure to have you. Thanks for coming up from texas. Thank you very much. So you’re you’re here to well, you’re here to release the the review of twenty sixteen and the forecast for twenty seventeen remind us, please. What is going on it atlas of giving. What is this all about? Atlas of giving at the atlas of giving what we do is we measure and forecast charitable giving by sector by source and by state, including washington d c and we release our information monthly it’s. Our forecast is updated each month. Our calculation of giving is updated by sector source and state each month. And our methodology is based on sixty five algorithms. What we did was we we had a team of twenty five phd level statisticians and analyst revue factors that we thought affected giving and two that they they added fifty percent mohr and they actually determined and what fact? What economic? Demographic and event factors are involved in charitable giving. And what their relative weights were for each category. For instance, the algorithm for corporate giving is very, very different from the algorithm for ah ah, church giving let’s say, so this this there are some commonalities, but they’re also. And when i say when i say correlation, this is based on what’s called correlation science a correlation, even a strong one does not necessarily indicate that that there is a relationship, and one example i’ll give you is that in our in our corporate giving algorithm, one of the key factors is auto parts sales. Now we don’t for a minute believe that auto parts sales have anything to do with charitable giving, but there is a strong there is a strong relation that variable correlates with that form of giving exactly for reasons that we could speculate. But in numerical regression analysis, those factors air correlated those two variables exactly correlated and just just so you know, this is the same kind of technology that the fed uses hedge funds use. I trust you, you’re a bona fide and and interestingly enough, the the auto parts sales is also part of one of the feds algorithms we found out so and one of the things we found recently because we’re continually trying to improve our algorithms and learned from them is that large equipment manufacturing index has a strong correlation with national giving. Okay, all right. We’re not gonna go too much into the mechanics of the details of it. Okay, but that’s, interesting large equipment manufacturing. And what was i just i’m sorry. What part in order parts sales, uh, related to fund-raising who knew, right? We do. We do now. Okay. You have a headline for us. Let’s. First talk about what, twenty sixteen looked like for fund-raising. What happened? Well, in twenty sixteen, we had a record year for dollars given, and the dollars given was just shy of half a trillion dollars. It was four hundred ninety seven point four billion dollars given nationally doll causes. How does that relate to twenty fifteen? That is a four point one percent increase. Okay, over twenty fifteen. And what was twenty fifth? Twenty fourteen to twenty. Fifteen. Remember that? What was that increase? It was it was a double digit increases. Wass it? Wass okay. We’re coming on the tail end of the recession, i guess. Well, a lot of that had to do with what was happening in the stock market. And we’ll talk more about that. Ok, as we go on, okay, maura that alright. So four point, one percent increase from fifteen to sixteen were just under half a billion, half a trillion dollars in giving for one other important point to make is that. For for most people who are affiliated with non-profits or the non-profit industry, they have assumed, based on other information, that charitable giving has been pegged at two percent of real gdp for as long as we can remember. Yes, you have an announcement for this. Go ahead, we have we have charitable giving at almost three percent of real gdp, so two point nine, seven percent of real gdp and that is huge because the country has been talking about the stalled percentage of two percent of gdp for a long time. I mean, it certainly the six years that i’ve been doing this and probably longer than that. So now you’re putting at just under three percent of gdp, which is enormous, fifty percent increase your saying yes, all right, all right. And there’s a reason why, okay, we’re gonna hold that reason, okay? Till after this break, you’re gonna hold that and we’ll go away for a moment. But of course we’ll be back. We’re talking about the twenty sixteen review the twenty seventeen forecast to professors joining us, paul service and doug white. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Durney welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent want tease i want to do a little live list, their love just a just a touch of the live listeners college station, texas, raleigh, north carolina and multiple right here in new york, new york, of course we’ve got our listeners abroad will get to those but still it’s a little taste of live listen love for now. All right, almost three percent let’s call a three percent two point nine seven what’s three one hundred’s between friends and colleagues let’s call it three percent of gdp. Why do you believe we’ve had this fifty percent increase? Well, there are a number of reasons they’ve been growing. One is the number of non-profits continues to grow and so now we way have but that’s always been the case and we always assumed to it seemed to be a zero sum game more non-profits entered, i don’t know, fifty thousand a year, so maybe one of the professors has a better number than that. But many, many new every year, and it’s still always stuck at two percent. Well, yes, but now we have technology and so there’s so many more different ways for people to give there’s so many there’s, so many more ways for people who are raising the money to get good information and good targeting about how they’re going to solicit money so fund-raising has become much more efficient, okay? And the only moral if, if that’s if it’s related to technologies, probably more adopting technology that we’ve had for a while, except for maybe you do things like text text to give is that is that that the person that would be one of one that i one that i love is crowdfunding kind of technology where you’re using social media to raise money for a cause? And so that didn’t exist. The other thing that well, i mean, it didn’t just come into existence in twenty sixteen. No, we’ve had crowdfunding no, no, no, no, no. Several years, no and but we didn’t just jump from two percent to three percent and one year either. Okay? It’s been creeping out. So what was the percentage last year? The percentage of gdp? The percentage last year. Wass i don’t remember. Okay, but it was something less than two point nine seven it wass okay, okay. Um all right, so we’re we’re at three percent now. That’s that’s, that’s a big deal. It is a big deal. This has been stale or stagnant. Stay lt’s. Wrong word stagnant for a long time. Okay, um, let’s talk about some of the different sectors that have benefited from this this increase since since last year there four point, one percent increase. I always i’m always crease about religion because religion is you and i have talked over the past couple years has always been a shrinking proportion. It’s been the largest of all the sectors but it’s been a shrinking proportion. Yes, ten years ago, gifts to churches and congregations accounted for fifty percent of all giving in the urals. Now, it’s, what thirty would you have? A thirty one. Thirty two percent metoo and did it lose lose a percent from last year? We’re projecting that it’s going to lose a percent from this year to next year. Okay, so it stayed steady because last year it had lost a percentage. Yes, it from fifteen to sixteen and lost a percent. And i’m pretty sure from fourteen to fifteen lost two percent, so i’ve never talking about that with you. Because now it’s steady. But you’re projecting a loss for next year. Yes. Okay. But it used to be fifty. Used to be fifty now. Thirty two. Okay. And the reason why is that the united states is becoming more like western europe. It’s becoming more secularized. Fewer and fewer people are joining congregations supporting congregations. But what’s interesting is that you mentioned zero sum game? E-giving is still growing so that the gifts air going. Other places. They’re just not going to religion. Yeah, clearly right. And really one of the one of the fastest growing sector of the fastest growing sector over the last three years has been the environmental sector and it is the smallest sector. It only accounts for two percent of all giving. But at the rate it’s growing it’s, it’s, it’s astounding. And then human needs organizations have also done quite well and education. The education sector has grown. Those air the three fastest growing sectors and have been for the last three. Well, really, since the end of the recession? Um, education is explained by the way that they raise money because one of the things we found at the alice of giving is that it’s not so much about the quote economy, its factors in the economy, it’s factors of demographic that’s because about your algorithms, you’re your algorithms have found the variables, the aii factors that that car late with e-giving so are two professors air well well acquainted with the fact that most universities go from campaign to campaign and lots of campaign contributions come out of come out of aa gains in the stock market or gains in real estate. And so when the stock market does well, education does well about the environment. What what’s what’s happening there? I think that the biggest factor in the environment is awareness you can’t not. You cannot turn on any of your i once heard a guy say a few years ago that the time has come when you can pick your version of the truth through the news. Yeah, and so but truthfully, no matter what your source of news is, you can’t escape the fact that we’re always talking about the environment now, climate change, we’re talking about climate change. We’re talking about the instruments to defer climate change things like solar panel and wind power and other alternative energy sources i mean, elon musk is making ah is making billions of dollars capturing energy and batteries and using that do you see in your twenty seventeen forecast on increase in market share for the environment from larger than two percent? No, you don’t say no. You see it’s continuing to grow, it is narrowing and it’s growing faster than to grow, but not more than than its current share. Two percent not more. That’s correct. Okay. We could be wrong, though, because remember this is this forecast that we’ll talk about today. It’s just the first of eleven for forecast will do throughout the year. So we update we we update our forecast every month. And the example that i love to give is two thousand won two thousand one was bumping along to be a great e-giving your ah relatively good giving here. And then september eleventh happened. And if you were a non disaster charity what we know today having backfilled information now for fifty years is that giving dried up? If you’re a non disaster charity, pretty much for six months and then came roaring back let’s stop talking around. The forecast and let’s talk about the forecast for twenty seventeen. What do you see happening? We’re looking for growth of four point four percent nationally. Four point four versus four point one for this year. So a little bit more growth. Yes. And and what? What dollar amount? Does that come to the dollar amount over half a trillion. Right. It’s going to be over half a trillion? Yes. Okay, okay. Ah, looks like five hundred nineteen five in nineteen billion. Five hundred nineteen. Okay. Now again, we’re with the caveat. I understand this is your first forecast of eleven of eleven more to come for twenty seventeen each month. You update the annual forecasts. That is that right? We do well, so it’s a rolling twelve month forecast. So our forecast contains a forecast for next month for the next three months for the next six months for the next twelve months. And then we also update the calendar year forecast every month. Okay. What do you ah, what else do you foresee for twenty? Seventeen around around let’s. Talk about the let’s. Talk about the sources because you mentioned some of the sectors that you see sector. Growth in twenty seventeen about from sources, foundations, corporate bequest, individuals, et cetera. What do you have there for? Twenty seventeen? Well, the biggest change i see is in corporate giving and co e-giving as as many people know, is is not a large percentage of source giving in the united states, only five percent. We’re gonna talk about that when we bring the professors in, i might like to i’d like to chat a little bit about why that is to me that small maybe i’m wrong, but alright, so martignetti e-giving corporate giving this year this year just past twenty sixteen was double digit growth ten point three percent. What we’re projecting for next year for corporate giving is only one point, eight percent. All right? Uh still grow. I’m looking at that and i understand that’s growth. I’m talking about the share. The proportional share of total giving for corporations is only five percent. All right? I’ll tell you what, let’s, let’s bring in our professors because we’ve talked about the headlines let’s. Bring in doug white he’s, former professor and director of columbia university’s, master of science in fund-raising management, his most recent book is abusing donors intent, which we discussed here. I was going to tease him about that having been three years ago. And what’s happened since. But now i find out that he’s writing another book for later this year. Doug white, welcome back. Well, thank you for having me back. It’s. Good to see you again. Even with your long hair, can’t avoid it. Just call him sampson. You and karen clams. And i thought it was einstein. I prefer fabio. If you’re gonna if you’re gonna make any references. Let’s, make it fabio. Paul service she’s on he’s on the line with us from north carolina. He’s, professor emeritus at boston college, where he led the center on wealth and philanthropy. He helped to found the wealth and giving forum appear centered endeavour to deepen the philanthropic engagement of the nation’s seven thousand wealthiest families. Pull service. Welcome back. Hello. Nice to be back in a load up. Pleasure to have you all you both with us. Let’s. Uh, let’s. Give difference to the guy on the phone because he’s a slight disadvantage. Paul sharpish. What sticks out? Let’s? Start with the twenty sixteen review before we get to the twenty. Seventeen forecast which look out for you in the in the review of twenty sixteen, giving the that growth that occurred in twenty sixteen i think that the story in all of these numbers is that the amount of giving is growing twenty billion a year over the last few years and at four percent it’s going to grow faster than that. The compounding uh, this is a remarkable trendline that twenty sixteen confirms and the projections for twenty seventeen indicates the continuation of that. So you love about going the amount going charity is incredible and growing. You love this that we’re now three percent of gdp. Yes. And when we did our well transfer models, we found that if the goose’s growth and wealth and tdp the biggest growth and so after pete and so if the economy grows, we’re going to find dramatic, even greater dramatic roles in philanthropy. Doug white, let’s, let’s bring you in. But what strikes you about? Twenty sixteen? Well, what paul just said is a continuation off his studies back in the nineties and nearly two thousand with regard to what’s going to happen, and i think we’re seeing it take place. Right now twenty sixteen for me was defined by the mega gift there were so many of them and what i don’t have my fingertips is thie analysis of how the smaller gifts have grown. The number of smaller gifts have grown, but we do know that the mega gifts have have been more than they’ve ever been before. That has to be a fact er in your number’s right, rob it iss, in fact, twenty fifteen there were more mega gifts than there were in twenty sixteen, actually, so it is a factor you talk about a zuckerberg gift or another gift from the gates foundation, or or those kinds of things it’s it mega gifts are huge factor, but another factor is what we’re finding and i’d be interested in. The opinion of our two experts is what we’re finding is that millennials are a e-giving group of individuals and they’re looking for they’re not looking for cost per dollar, raised as their measurement there, looking for effectiveness and accountability on who they give, too, but they are an active force and philanthropy. The big gains that we’ve had in online giving in technology e-giving come largely from that group of people dug millennials. I totally agree with that and i think that’s one of the bigger challenges for the established charities around the united states who have become used to just the annual giving, continuing in continuing, which is fine, but i think the millennials, they’re saying they’re asking different questions, they’re not saying, am i loyal to this cause? They’re asking, even if i am loyal to this cause, how effective is my gift? And i think the question of impact we use that word, a lot of it is a topic of my new book. The question of impact is so important it should be, but now it’s important to the millennials because his roberts saying they give individually they give to causes that they can see an impact in or from paul what’s, your sense of what’s creating thiss terrific growth it’s, it’s, it’s, the dramatic growth of wealth at the very top. And what doug said is absolutely correct. Maybe gifts capture one dimension. What captures a larger slot? This is the million dollars and these air increasing and the list is getting longer, and i think, uh, that’s also helps explain the decline in religious e-giving ah, religious giving this to churches and the upper end does not give proportionately, uh, to their churches in the same ratio that the bottom ninety five percent of the population does so part of this change in religious e-giving is that so muchmore is going to education two new kinds of ventures to international to environment to social needs, and at the very top the percentage that they give to their churches is minuscule compared to how much they give the other causes. So that is part of not just the secularization which i agree with, but part of this is where the making gifts you’re going. Well, paul, how come we’re not cracking this seventy three, seventy four percent proportion that individuals account for in the total pie of giving? How come it’s it’s sticks there if we’re seeing all the us? Yeah, you? Yes, paul. We’re seeing all these mega gifts and the million dollar gifts. How come we’re not getting past the seven? The mid seventy figure? Well, one of the things is we just found out the foundation growth is is dramatic. Most of foundation growth and requests are individual gifts. And so when we’re looking at individuals, you have to understand what the is going on inside of individuals and that’s private foundations to it’s also the quest and it’s also remittances. Now, doug, i would say that report by your very astute ah research on remittances would be important. See what we’re finding out in some places that a lot of immigrants air not contributing, quote unquote to philanthropy. But the number iss between one hundred fifty and two hundred billion a year, that is sent back overseas largely to people in need buy-in immigrants recent immigrants alright, let’s, turn to let’s start to doug remittances. Well, that’s a good point that a lot of money does go back. And that’s, of course not counted in this whole process here in terms of generosity, the way we define charity, the way we defined, making the world a better place. That’s a huge part of that and it’s unfortunate. We can’t capture that. But we’re not talking about that and technical terms right now, but we really ought to, because it’s a an expression of our our society’s beneficence. And i really think that’s an important thing but there’s one other question that i just wanted to point out, or at least clarify from my own perspective, is that this really is a zero sum game. There’s only one hundred percentage points that we have to work with and so to actually ask or worry about, we’re only a seventy five percent those air living individuals, you know, on the other five percent, we have dead individuals, they’re still individuals. A question requests that’s really kind of eighty percent. I can’t. We could only go one hundred percent, but that’s on ly if nobody else gave anything, the foundations are the corporations. So i suspect it’s going to stay that way, in fact, has been their seventy five and five for the last long as i can remember. Well and paul’s point, of course, that a lot of the foundation giving is individuals directed by individuals. But it comes from the private found a it’s, just a medium. So as an expression of individual philanthropy, i think paul is correct. I would throw in the individual philanthropy into the foundation world and donor advised funds. Oh, yeah. We’re going to continue this conversation. I gotta do a little business. I have to talk about a couple of our response duitz and we’re going to get to donor advised funds after this pursuing pursuing dot com between brexit, the syrian refugee crisis and the inauguration of a new president today, the national and global climates have a lot of implications for what you can expect in your fund-raising we’re going to talk about some of those events later today. The next pursuant webinar is field guide to twenty seventeen fund-raising it’ll give you strategies that you need to keep up with. Everything is going on in the world. It’s a free web in or they always are. You register at pursuing dot com go to resource is and then webinars and i’m not too keen on that word. Webinars i don’t know it’s it’s in the lexicon now we’re stuck with it, but i don’t know i never liked it from i never like to from the beginning maybe i didn’t go public, but i’m expressing now webinars i don’t know, it’s just i think we could come up with something better than webinars. I understand where it comes from way have been seminar, but i don’t like it and i was early. I just i just wasn’t public early. We’ll be spelling spelling bees for fund-raising they have a new video up it’s from a night that raised money for hfc, which is help for children. The organisation needed help for its programs for children they turned to we’d be spelling there’s one hundred and ten thousand dollars in a spelling bee night. Check out the video it’s at wi be e spelling dot com. I’ve got video interviews for you from the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference. Twenty twenty sixteenth. God, i need an intern, so i have someone to blame the twenty sixteen non-profit the the video is titled virtual organizations and volunteers. There are four interviews in those areas, and they are on managing remote employees, managing remote volunteers where to find volunteers and leveraging your start or tech volunteers. My video from the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference with the links to the four interviews is that tony martignetti dot com and i, uh i suggest you check out this year’s non-profit technology conference twenty seventeen and t c this is always a very smart conference. I say it often because i believe it. Check out. Ntcdinosaur washington, d c this year, march twenty third, you get the info it and ten dot or ge, and that is tony’s take two the rest of the live listen, love, you know, it’s got to go out. I mean, there’s, no question about that. Besides the ones i already mentioned, we’ve got tampa, florida we’ve got forming ten missouri welcome farming to missouri. You haven’t been with us before. Welcome and somerville, new jersey! Welcome live listener love to you, let’s. Go abroad, of course. Seoul, south korea, always checking in so loyal south korea on your haserot comes a ham nida. We’ve got kiev in ukraine. No, i don’t know the scouts just do it live listener love to ah to kiev, tokyo also very loyal multiple. We’ve got multiple tokyo konnichi wa and the podcast pleasantries to the over twelve thousand listening in the time shift so glad that you are with us whether it’s a week later, days, months later, glad to have you with us. Pledge industries toe are over twelve thousand podcast listeners and the affiliate affections fast on the heels of the live listen love in the podcast pleasantries toe are am and fm listeners throughout the country am fm stations. Let your station know that you’re listening little feedback affections to the am fm affiliate listeners. Okay, rob mitchell, you you seem to be chomping at the bit to talk about donorsearch vise dh funds e-giving first about donor advised funds. I am a big proponent of donor advice found about and i can tell you that they’ve been the one of the biggest contributors fromthe grants that they’re making out of donor advised funds, since the depth of the recession is this tract in in your algorithms is part of the individual giving. Is that where we see dahna vice funds? What? We saved an analogue kate id on allocated. Okay, okay. Don’t advise funds are are they’re not knew they came in with the tax act of sixty eight. Yeah, they they’re not new. But this company called fidelity an investment company. I saw an opportunity and the thing that i love about donor advised funds and and paul talked about this a bit. The rise of the million dollar gift i think donorsearch vice funds have a big part of that because a za contributor myself, if my daughter’s here in the studio, listening with us if our family adopted a charitable project for which we wanted to contribute. But we did not have enough money available to us to just scratch a check, we could create a donor advice fund, a add to it, let let it be invested so that it would grow so that we could meet our our charitable mission for our family in a future year. Of course, this is a subject of controversy, because there are people who have on the other side of this, and they’ve written editorials in the chronicle, as you have, who believe that there’s too much money parked in donor advised funds is not getting out to the charities it sits. The donor gets their charitable deduction immediately, but it could sit for decades or generations, theoretically in the donor of ice fund and never get to the charities that it’s supposed to be benefiting. Well, theoretically, that could be the case. But if you read the fine print, if you set up a donor advice fund with one of the big three fidelity vanguard er schwab, or with the silicon valley foundation or ah any number. Of different true charitable organizations, community community funds are our big proponents of donor advised funds they can’t carry on perpetually, and the other thing is just a mathematical, just a mathematical equation. Donorsearch foundations are required to give five percent of their assets each year, and so what do they give a little more than five percent of their assets? You know, this is the argument against requiring donor advised phone or it five contributed percentage each year donorsearch vice funds or giving over twenty percent of their assets as grants to end use charities each year. But there are people who would say, well, let’s, make it fifty or forty or forty or fifty will see an increase. All right, we’re going, we’re gonna leave this that because i want to talk about some of the want to talk more about what you’re involved in more concretely, let’s bring doug back, doug so there’s a lot going on in the world, not the least of which is presidential inauguration today. We’ve got brexit, the a great britain leaving the european union. We’ve got syrian refugee crisis in europe. How do any or these or other things that are on your mind ah, affect our twenty seventeen philanthropy? Well, about an hour ago, the new president referenced ah, a lot of america as being in a state of some carnage, that’s his word, and whether you look at it that way or not, i do believe that philanthropy is going to have to shoulder a lot more than it has in the past, but we all know that philanthropy can’t do all of the work. And so i think one of the questions as this administration grows into its maturity, will be what kind of services will be cut back where philanthropy will have to fill in even more of the gap. So i think one of the messages and one of the reasons i think that twenty seventeenth will be a great mother where’s, my damn intern will be a great year for philanthropy anyway, is that the messages will be very concrete and very strong about the needs that society faces. That a lot of government support, as we see it right now. It may not happen this way, but a lot of government support won’t be there for. So i think the philanthropic sector will have to really step up to the plate in this in this coming here. How about you, paul? What about world affairs and twenty seventeen? I am much more optimistic. You can look up the wall of fear listeners, and that will lead you, teo. Not sleep very well at night. About your money. Uh, the the issue with, uh, philanthropy making up for government spending has been does without due respect. Um, talked about when any republican has been elected. And you have to understand that the federal budget is three point eight trillion dollars a year. Philanthropy it’s five hundred billion. And most of that doesn’t go to social services, and most of it is never going to go to social service. So it’s not going to make up very much, uh, we could hope it will, but that nothing that can touch medicaid, medicare, food stamp budgets. But that is of the non discretionary part of the federal budget is all. This is two point eight trillion. Can the discretionary part is a trillion, so i don’t i don’t have that problem in the forefront of my mind that’s making up it just can’t okay let’s, turn to doug. I just want to be clear. I i probably made on incorrect impression a moment ago. I didn’t mean to imply that ah, charity would make up for what government does or does not do and you’re right. That question has been around for ever, and the answer has been around forever charity can’t can’t step in like that. What i meant to say and i apologize for saying it badly, was that this gives thie organizations and opportunity to make their case stronger, not because they will say we will make up the difference, but because the need is there and your philanthropic support is even stronger than it’s ever been, which is, i think, a slightly different way of saying what i meant to say before, because paul, you’re so right. This is this is a question that’s been around forever, and i don’t believe it’s just for republican presidents, i think no matter what we do, ah, there will be gaps, by the way that the government does. Not feel and that’s going to be a matter of policy, but that’s always going to be the case and that those gaps will not be filled by philanthropy. But philanthropy, the organization’s themselves, if we kind of shift the mirror over there, can then say, hey, we have a big job to do support us, so i hope that bridges those two comments, okay? So you’re saying it maura’s as opportunity for round and around messaging and marketing, basically for charities, but paul’s absolutely correct. I don’t think anybody would disagree that what what charity does to help society is nothing by comparison to the amount of the government could spend to do the same kinds of things pull anything else you want to? You want to add on that? No, i think doug’s explanation is just perfect. And i appreciate see that two professors in agreement. Wow, e-giving might give them a chance. Well, i’ve always in my heart is with paul he’s. Been one of my heroes for the last two decades. All right, doug, how about you with the international affairs and impacting? I’m sorry. Yes, i’m looking at robyn. I’m saying, doug, rob international affairs twenty, seventeen and beyond. What do you see? Well, first let’s talk about twenty sixteen. The first half of twenty sixteen was dramatically different in typically do not allow anarchy on the show. When i was about twenty seventeen, expecting getting there, but but, uh, you came from texas. I’ll give you the difference. Go ahead, anarchist. There was a lot of uncertainty. I mean, we had the weirdest presidential election in my lifetime. We had distraction from the olympic games. We had an increase in in terror events worldwide and e-giving was essentially flat for the first half of the year. And then it took a spike in july, flattened out again. And then the last quarter of the year after the election. What? What are algorithms show is that giving spike xero after three months of the year? So the growth in twenty sixteen was not linear? It was not. Lin. What was what was the first six months? Like it was point nine percent growth. So just basically one percent. But we got ended up with four point four. So four point one four point one. I’m sorry for point force for next year for point one. So that extra three point one three point two came on the second half came and you’re saying there was a big spike in july first in the summer? Yes, and then again in november, right after the election? Exactly. Okay, and and the spike in november continued literally. Is that my saying that correct, but it’s a word linearly. Okay, thank you for correcting me on that. But they’re two professors with this. I’ve got to be correct. We’ll have their mikes shut off. Xero it’ll be now it’s me. That was that was a linear progression. Okay? For november, october, november and december, and right now, but that’s what? It was, but there was a spike in november right after the election. November eighth. Absolutely. It was. Okay. I get just a tribute that teo stability. You know, the raucous election is over. I i think that there was some election relief involved emotionally, i think that people were people. They weren’t sitting on the sidelines, gifts were still being made. They just weren’t growing there giving at the rate they had been growing in past years. And we’re talking mostly about individuals but corporations corporate giving grew at a good rate this last year, now for twenty seventeen, um, i think there are a lot of unanswered questions, and we’ve got the expert on the phone with us professor schervish. You know, one of the one of the things that the new president has talked about in his tax plan is an elimination of the estate tax. And paul’s paul spent a great deal of his professional career talking about generational transfer of wealth, and we’ve all talked about what what would happen if the estate tax went away with what would the impact on charitable bequest giving b and so that’s one of those unanswered questions. We don’t know what the tax plan is going to be and it’s going to be a very, very interesting year, and i have more questions than i have answers. Frankly, all right, let’s, go out for a break. When we come back, we’ll ask paul about the estate tax repeal possibility on i also want to get this corporate five percent e-giving proportion, and i got another live listen to love one specific one. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises strong’s best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m peter shankman, author of zombie loyalists, and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Special live listener love is right here in the studio because that’s alexey mitchell, visiting from she’s been she’s extremely well travelled twenty four year old india, thailand, germany, switzerland what am i leaving out? It’s? Amazing. Very well travelled france student at columbia university her proud father saying france. Lexie, thanks for being with us live. Listen love to you. Okay, let’s, bring paul in. Paul, you want to you want to ah opine about the possibility of the estate tax repeal and what that would mean? Well, i have done some research on that. Yeah, i’ve heard rumors to that effect. Yes, some but about the repeal on and so has the center on philanthropy. And what we’ve done is we’ve asked people in research what would be if there is in a state tax currently, what would be your distribution of your state? And it turns out that it’s, pretty much what it would be, uh, correctly, according to what is happening to distribution two heirs to charity and to taxes. But if we say what happens if you eliminate the estate tax, what will happen? People that don’t like the elimination of the state tax the issue for them is largely that less money’s going to government. The evidence is that from these studies now these are people giving their opinion is that mohr will goto philanthropy and more well, goto airs. The loser is government by definition. Now people that think that government is philanthropy are going to object to the appeal repeal of the estate tax. But even the government has shown in one or two studies earlier on that to repeal the estate tax has not led to a decline and charitable giving, and i predict because of how wealthy people are and needing to figure out for their own sake, what to do good with that body there’s not going to be a problem with the abreu teal of latex. Okay, you’re you’re pretty well recognized as as an authority, but i love that name. All right, you got robbed, mitchell’s vote and doug is doug eyes knotting. I’m not nodding off, no nodding, nodding office don’t know. I’d say no, no, no, i just wanted to clear up. If someone’s not, i’m not. I’m not gonna touch that with it can’t happen just doesn’t happen. Non-profit radio and it’s my intuition that because although i haven’t studied it as much as paul he’s absolutely correct it’s a non answerable question, but go for it. I mean, there could be other reasons to not eliminate the estate tax. And by the way, the estate taxes pretty much eliminated for most people by far because of the extremely high yeah it’s five million dollars that’s that’s. Ten million per couple. So i mean, what are we talking about here? I know i don’t think there’s been any decrease among people who are who have a states of less than that and their request terrible giving i i’ll give you an anecdotal. A demonstration of what paul’s just said our doug’s just that that is that i unfortunately lost my mother in november. We’re now dealing with her state, which is a non taxable size to state her charitable contributions to me were all striking, actually, yeah, they and she got no tax benefit whatsoever from for creating those charitable bequests. Wait that’s widely recognized people aren’t doing it for the for the tax benefit, for the most part, mint study after study, bank of america has studies of high net worth giving, and the tax benefit is like usually the third or fourth reason that people site for leaving leaving charity in their state. I want to turn to the to the corporate this is just a little bug, a boo of mind, maybe, and you’re welcome to tell me if i’m if i’m mistaken. Corporate giving is five percent of the van you’il giving, according to the atlas of giving that seem small to me. Are you doug? Is my my off base with court corporations only contributing five percent and tell me if i am? I don’t think you’re so much off base again. We have ah xero some game here, it’s one hundred percent. So what do they represent within that? They’ve been around five percent for, you know, for a while, but i think, really your question leads me to think about what their motive in charitable giving is and their place in society. They think corporations are becoming much more aware of the role they need to play in society, but at the same time they have one primary purpose, and that is to make money for their stockholders. We don’t do that in the charitable world, but corporations do that. And so there could be a huge uproar if corporations got more charitable, all right on. And i mean to distinguish that from the newly growing be corporation segment let’s get at it this way, rob, where what proportions of the different sources of fund-raising are are growing across a bequest, individual foundation, corporate missing other sources anyway, so we’ve got this now three percent gdp. Well, you have to somebody’s giving maur what proportion? Well sources e-giving you have to consider where the proportions are. So as a cz doug and paul of both pointed out, when you add individual giving to bequest giving which is actually individuals that’s, that’s, that’s a gigantic right so that’s gigantic number ok, and so that’s, where most of the growth comes from, no matter what the growth rate iss and so if corporations, as they did this past year, they their gifts grew at ten percent, which that’s the first time i’ve seen that since we’ve started the atlas of giving and it’s way above the annual growth of four point one. Exactly so, it’s it’s more than double. Okay, except that, but but paul’s exactly right. In the case of publicly traded companies there first, their first priority is to their shareholders. And if you don’t think that a shareholder of the shareholders meeting is going to stand up and challenge a charitable gift because it could have been something that enriched their shares, you’d be wrong. Now ninety five percent of the businesses in america are not publicly traded their small businesses. I i have a couple of them i give to charity dahna through my small business, but it’s much more difficult to measure those kinds of gifts than it is the large corp large, publicly traded corporations. We just have about a minute and a half left. So i want to just touch on some some state data because you track sector source and state where’s the most generous state in the country. You know, this year what we showed was this is close to you, mike. This is going to come as a surprise. Heimans north dakota. I really love north dakota. North dakota grew seven point one percent and the states that you typically look for our texas, florida, california and new york, north dakota grew family are the most populous states, those air three most popular, of course, california number one texas tune of new york is number three, so the north dakota phenomena is also a function of their population and the and the oil play that has happened and what we’re finding from the oil play, whether it’s in texas or north dakota, is that, um, there’s a delayed effect and charitable giving and the north dakota you’re saying the population’s a factor because it’s so small it’s so small, i don’t know what the population is there but it’s it’s small what? We love north dakota. All right, gentlemen, we gotta leave it there. I want to thank you very much. Ceo rob mitchell from atlas of giving alice e-giving dot com former professor at columbia university doug white. We’ll have him back when his next book is is ready. It’s on the wounded warrior project. And paul service professor mary-jo boston college, gentlemen. Thank you so very much. Thank you, tony. Thank you. Pleasure. Next week, amy sample ward, our social media contributor returns if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we b e spelling, dot com, our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez, and this cool music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Kayman what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple, in fact, when’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address their card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.