Tag Archives: Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Nonprofit Radio for September 17, 2010: The Attention Factor & Fundraising Software Ideas

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Tony’s Guests:

Alice Aspen March, author of The Attention Factor!® Discovery Book. She shares tips to give attention–and be present in all senses–when talking to your donors,co-workers, board and volunteers. How can you achieve full attention and non-distraction in your professional relationships?

Scott Koegler, Editor, Nonprofit Technology News. Scott and I will talk about what you need to know about fundraising software. Whether your budget and donor list are several hundred or many thousands, there is software suited to your size and bottom line.

Here is a link to the podcast: 007: Your Attention and Nonprofit Software

This Friday from 1-2pm this week and every week!


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Hyre hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m your aptly named host tony martignetti we’re talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We’re live today, we’re going to be taking your calls shortly for alice march and scott koegler alice is going to alice aspen march is going to be joining me. We’re going to be talking about attention being present and scott koegler is the editor of non-profit technology news he’s, the show’s tech expert, and we’re going to be talking about fund-raising software you might remember last week, we had tips to save you money and time on your printing and direct mail that was last week this week were paying attention to people and technology. After the break, i’ll be joined by alice aspen march talking about attention before that, i’d like to spend just a moment talking to you about your plan to giving program and keeping that ahead of the curve surfing your planned giving to stay ahead of the cresting wave. I say more about that on my block, which is m p g a d v dot com, where there are some tips for keeping your plan giving. Program ahead of the curve, with lots of prospects. Bye, doing things like avoiding excuses and having a nice big prospect pipeline and how to do that, and you’ll find more on my blogged m p g a d v dot com. And around the middle of the hour, i’ll have some thoughts about openly sharing your shortcomings and failures in your non-profits work. It’s becoming a little more popular, and i’ll say little about that in the middle of the hour. Today, we have some excellent guests, and i’ll be joined by the first of those. After this break, please stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. 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Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dafs welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent in a moment, i’ll be joined by alice aspen march, and we’re gonna be talking about paying attention, giving attention to your donor’s, your coworkers, board members and volunteers and later in the show, i’ll be joined by scott koegler, the show’s tech expert he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, and he returns to the show with the latest reviews of fund-raising software. Whether your budget and donor list are several hundred or you have many thousands, there is software that is suited to your size and your bottom line, and scott will join us later in the show. Right now, i’m joined by alice aspen march, the founder of the attention factor, you’ll find that at the attention factor dot com alice is has appeared on many television and radio shows and has been extensively quoted in print and online outlets talking about attention. Alice aspen, march welcome to the show. Thank you, tony alice, there aren’t many people talking about paying attention and giving attention to others. What first do you mean when you’re talking about attention? Well, first of all, you’re right, nobody is talking about it like i am paying attention is the most important part of our lives because attention is with us twenty four seven and people know today when you’re not paying attention, especially when you’re on your cell phone or you’re texting or you’ve got your earphones on or you’re looking at your computer or your answering a phone, and people feel that what i mean by paying attention or being present is when you are listening to somebody when you are looking at them, when you’re in their energetic field and when you’re not people can feel invisible or not respected or not included are angry and they they withdraw, they act out the roots of your work are pretty personal. Yes, they are because i have three adult sons, and one day i discovered that my youngest one, who had been a television addict nobody was talking about that at all at that time had gone on to abuse drugs, and i was really terrified, tony, that i could lose him. And so i went looking for the role i played in his dysfunctional behavior and att first i changed my life, selby. But i didn’t know what i was looking for. It was very frustrating until i had an epiphany in a u c l a extension class. I lived in los angeles at the time i had an epiphany over the word attention, and i knew that was a clue. So then i went looking for everywhere i could find anything about it, and strangely enough, the on ly place i found it was attached to a d h d and a d day, and that wasn’t really what i was looking for, so i went further into the subject and i have a generalist mind, and pretty soon i realized i was reading about attention, but they never used the word. So in about a year, i had a body of work, which i took to a spot that i’d spoken at years before, and i realized that my subject matter resonated with everybody because attention is everybody’s primary need my guest is alice aspen march, founder of the attention factor, and we’re taking your calls today. The number to call for alice is eight seven seven for eight xero forty one twenty eight, seven, seven for eight xero for one to zero for calls to alice aspen, march alice it sounds like with greater attention we can increase our own and maybe and probably other people’s productivity efficiency as well as well being. Tony, you’ve just said the magic words yes, the deprivation of attention leads to it can lead to disease, it can lead to violence it can lead to stealing in in corporate the corporate world, people need attention and when they don’t get it, they’ve got to act out. So when they do get the kind they need, of course, productivity goes up. Morale in a corporate world goes up, people’s relationships change and our positive i’ve had people who have heard me on a ship or in europe or new zealand and say to me afterwards, i don’t believe this. Why haven’t we heard this before? You basically just change. You saved my daughter’s life or i’m going home and treat my employees differently, or i’ve got to do something about my wife or now i know what’s been wrong and my marriage for forty three years yes, is this is obviously pervasive work that you’re doing affecting personal and professional relationships and to bring it home for our listeners, i’m thinking about relationships with boardmember sze volunteers, co workers, co workers may be working for you or you’re working for them or against you when you mentioned violence, that makes me think a little bit of that phrase going postal violence, that’s not the only place the postal service is not the only place where people where we’ve seen violence in the workplace, certainly, but it can rise to that level. And is your sense that a lot of that violence stems from people not being respected and getting attention in words of one syllable, yes, and, you know, of course, that expression going postal came out of the post office, you see, an exit interview is vital for people that you’re letting go because it’s a closure for them, and if they don’t get that when they don’t get that they feel invisible. And he certainly went back to the workplace and made himself visible by taking out a lot of people, you know? And even more recently, there was something in in binghamton, new york, yes, on alison and just the minute we have left before the break, alice really back of course after the break may be there just one one way you can give us one or two of listening better. How can we be better at giving attention? Well, first of all, you could turn off all your tech stuff. Okay, so she’s vital, vital tony? Yes, that’s ah that’s first and foremost is my cell phone on vibrate? I think, yes, i did do it for the show. But yes, you’re right know where we have we have kottler way have become immersed in a culture that does not listen does not listen to each other and it doesn’t seem to be getting any better, and people are feeling out there talking about that more that he doesn’t listen to me or they don’t listen to me or she doesn’t listen to me. We’re going to take a break. Alice, my guest is alice has been march, founder of the attention factor. Please stay with us. You didn’t even think that shooting getting dink dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network get in. Cubine hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 and aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m, we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on jobs, try to jeez and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelve at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair 10AM2 three p m. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one. I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two, eight sixty five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w died mind over matter and y si dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back. My guest is alice aspen march. The founder of the attention factor at the attention factor. Dot com alice. Right before the break, we started to talk about ways that we can give attention in in much better ways and pay attention. Mohr and you mentioned turning off our tech gadgets. What? What else? How else should we be bestowing the attention that is so much needed by the people we work with and live with? Well, certainly one way and a unique way. That’s not very usual is to ask them. Ask somebody what kind of attention would you like from me? And i could bet that they don’t even know. So the next sentence that you would share with them would be. You may not know right now what kind of attention you want from me. But when you figure it out, please call me. Please let me know. So i can either give it to you. Are we can talk about it? Are it would make good conversation. So you think in a professional relationship that’s ah, that’s a fair question to ask now, this is let’s say boss and employee and the employees i guess asking the boss what what kind of attention do you need from me? Absolutely. Yes. First of all, it makes the employees feel visible that the boss really cares about her or him, and it opens up a whole world of communication. Absolutely. Alice, we have a caller. Barbara, welcome to the show. Barbara. Thank you, what’s use your question for alice barbara that i want. I know that i’ve turned a with my computers so that i’m giving her one hundred percent of my attention. Thank you. Also, i grieve with what you’re saying, and i tried to do that. That has to keep paying attention to someone when you’re when you’re talking to someone who just talks in circles, who never gets to the point. And it just gets so frustrating. And so i find that when that happens, my mind i just i go where had all focus those difficult, sort of, maybe frustrating, even moments when someone isn’t getting to the point. Alice so what do we do, what we do in that situation? First of all, how do you feel when that happens? Barber to you, that’s important to realize how do you know? When i’m not getting to the point. Yeah, well, you’re feeling frustrated, right? Okay, well, probably one thing you could certainly say to the person is i don’t think you’ve heard what i said because i’m feeling very frustrated about something right now. That’s a direct communication. Okay, are you going to say that? Well, i’m sorry to hear that. I know they would have had to see that that’s a good thing to say, oh, good are i need you to repeat back what i’ve just said to you so that i know that you got it because it’s really important, alice is clearly all about open communication that sounds like the advice that you’re giving not to be afraid to sort of, i guess, obviously politely but firmly asked for more ask for the attention you’re seeking. And in the case of barbra’s question, i asked for affirmation of what it is that you’re looking for are acknowledging tony closed. Communication doesn’t work, so you have to have open communication, but you have to know really what you need and if you need somebody to stop talking in circles, which is so really normal, you need that you have to you have to let them know that they’re really not getting you, and as i said, the way to get the way to alert them to that is to get to never repeat back what you’ve said, barber, does that help you? Thank you. All right, thank you very much for calling barbara. The number to call if you’d like to talk to alice is eight seven, seven for eight xero forty one twenty my guest is alice aspen march the founder of the attention factor, alice let’s focus more on how we can be better at giving attention be more attentive. Eso you’ve mentioned turning off electronic devices? I mean, those air obviously distracting and your point is people feel that distraction asking for attention, asking what type of attention is is being sought. Are there other ways that we can be better at this? Well, once you ask somebody what kind of attention they need and you start a conversation, you’re going to get lots of information. They’re going to tell you what they need and how to give it to them and and and miracles happen. First of all, you’ve got to know that way. Our three different kinds of people, some of us need attention visually, some of us needed auditory lee. Is that a word? Yeah, auditory and another. Some of us need a kinesthetic lee. And when you established in aesthetics is movement correct? Like i’m flailing my arms right now as i’m talking to you, right? Well, you can hear it in people speech. They will either say, you know, i really see what you’re talking about. I hear what you’ve said, i really don’t feel that well, that’s a big clue that comes from really listening when you get that clue, you could address that need in that person and put it in put your conversation in visual terms or auditory terms or kinesthetic terms. You know i’d like to talk about retention that’s a new popular issue right now, it’s not only an issue in in your area, but it’s in the issue that i’m working with now college kids, you know, it usedto only belong in the corporate world. They would talk about retention because people leave. There was a tremendous turnover. Well, college kids are now leaving and trustees air now leaving and i believe firmly cause i hear this from enough people that they leave when they don’t get their needs met and their primary need is for attention. We’ve had a show actually about retaining the good employees that you work so hard to recruit way look to recruit the best not only employees, but also boardmember zand volunteers and it’s difficult for the organisation when there’s a lot of turnover. Um, your point is you think some of the this turnover could be reduced if people would just be more open about what they’re needs are around attention and fulfilling those needs. Toni, i’ve got lots of research in my files showing that employee turnover khun b reduced when employees start to get the kind of attention they are they need, and i’ve worked with a group. The bottom line personal publication corporation had a fight, fabulous experience. It was an experiment. It was called i power. Yes, tell us and they were losing a publication and they had tremendous turnover and stress in their workplace. And they developed this experience where they got their employees to tell them how they felt they could do their job better. There was a process involved in this, but not on ly did employ turnover cease the bottom line went up and and the hundreds of dollars were saved in tiny ways because employees know about waist and they really don’t want to waste their time, nor their owners resource is that it was a miracle. I took that course twice to see if they were doing what i wanted them to do, and they were fabulous story. Fabulous. This reminds me two of something that was in the is in the news very recently, there’s ah ah, university, harrisburg university of science and technology they’ve decided that for one week they were going to turn off access to all social media to the students, so there would be no text messaging, no facebook access um, no twitter access for a solid week and these air all the sorts of distracters that you’re talking about and what happened? No, they haven’t done it yet, it’s coming and i do it. I would like to know what they’re going to do. I mean, how it turns out, you know, there was a president of santa monica college when i lived there, who decreed that for one hour just one hour. Ah, weak. His staff and his service. People would do nothing but read that’s. What he proclaimed and the whole campus changed. People were starting to talk to each other again. The gardeners were talking to the only students because everybody want to know what the other person was reading. The point is, we need that in our lives. We need a turnoff. We need to start looking at people and paying attention. You know, i just moved to new york from los angeles, where i spent my life in a car isolated the difference. And living here is so overwhelming because i take the bus is i take the subways and i look at people and i talked to people. People are people. People are people all over, and they want to be talked to. They want to be looked at. They want to get directions if they look like they’re lost. I stopped. I stopped a couple of the other day in grand central station because the man was taking a photograph of his wife and i said to him, how would you like me to take a picture of both of you and this guy? Smiled from air to hear he couldn’t believe it. A small gesture you and i met on the subway. We met on the atria. We did did that’s how we met on the time we got to know each other. If someone has a difficult relationship with let’s, say a boardmember because that’s those can be sometimes the most the most excruciating. Ah, they where should they really start to try toe engage the person mohr or teo sort of hell the relationship. Well, i think if you really know that the relationship is out or not working, you ask him out for lunch and you say, you know, i’d like to talk to you about a few things and that’s when you could say, you know, i get that there’s not a lot of attention around here. What kind would you like? Are we are we scheduling meetings at the wrong time? Are you being harassed by my staff? Are you getting too many e mails? But, you know, over food, some wonderful things happen, and generally a person when you’re eating with them will be more comfortable and feels safer. Ah, and you can ask him, of course. If this is a good time to talk about what’s going on that the non-profit you’ve gotta enroll, people, enroll in and engage in roland, engage us, ask permission permission for what i ask permission to talk to him about what’s going on at the non-profit that is attention. I happen to like your idea of sharing a meal with someone it’s, it’s, it’s, a physical, sharing your sharing a physical space, the table. I also like that meals in a restaurant are timed. We know the flow exactly. They’re also aren’t going to be the office interruptions because you’re out of the office and adhering to your advice, you’ve turned off your cell phone. You want to be attentive to this person? So you have you’ve eliminated distractions, hopefully, and then there’s the physical level, the physical but the sharing of a meal and be sure you pick up the bill don’t let him i want to give you another example that occurred in one of my workshops. Ah woman’s boss would call her in for a meeting, and either he was on the phone or on his computer or texting or something, and the meetings were generally disasters. Because he would give her moments. And she said, what could i do? And i said, next time you see him in the hall say, could i have seven minutes of your time with no interruption? You know, if somebody hears is a beginning in the end, they can handle that. And so they set aside a seven minute time and went in, and they had the meeting with no interruptions. And he was the one at the end of the meeting. Who said, you know, this has been the best meeting we’ve ever had in just a brief period. Yes, and she was she was elated because when she walked out of his office before she felt deflated, depressed, un respected and a review nails particularly invisible, which is a terrible place to be and they were able to turn it around in just a seven minute meeting. That’s, right without interruption. You doing a five minute meeting? Alison? Just a minute. We have left. This also gets me thinking about two types of people. Are you actually think of the movie pulp fiction? The scene with uma thurman and and john travolta? Are you the kind of person? Who listens or either kind of person who waits to talk good question. There are both in our land and i’ve been guilty of both. So i am particularly joining the first group where i listen until the people are really done. And you know, tony, i’ve had people say to me, you know, you’re really a good lister, so i know that it’s happening for them. Well, john travolta would admire you because he answers that he’s the kind of person who waits to talk, but he says he’s working on it, alice, we have to leave it there. My guest has been alice aspen march, the founder of the attention factor, you confined alice thehe tension factor dot com and i want to thank her very much for joining us in the studio. After this break. We’ll be joined by scott koegler, the editor of non-profit technology news, our tech expert for the show and he’s goingto a share with us reviews of fund-raising software. Stay with me. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 and aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on jobs, try to jeez and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelfth at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair 10AM2 three p m. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one. Hyre are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dafs welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio, i’m tony martignetti we’re talking big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent in a moment, i’ll be joined by scott koegler, the editor of non-profit technology news. Just for a moment, i’d like to spend a little time thinking about sharing, sharing your miss misfortunes, shortcomings failures. I’m seeing mohr of this among non-profits for a long, long time that has just been taboo, no donor wanted to be affiliated with a project or a program that wasn’t a smashing success, so everything that fell short of that we just kept silent about you may remember a couple of weeks ago i had stephanie strong, the national non-profit reporter for the new york times on, and we talked about her her coverage of failure fair, which was something sponsored by the world bank, no less, and she and i talked about how this longstanding pattern of not talking about shortcomings is slowly changing, and they were sort of seeing examples. And since that show, i’ve seen a couple of examples a pretty well regarded charity in terms of accountability and openness. Charity water shared a video where they we’re very open. The ceo was very open about a water drilling failure in in south african republic. And that was no less than their fourth anniversary. Video was the fourth anniversary of the charity, and they were sharing, ah, shortcoming, a project that did not go so well. And also, very recently, the ceo of the case foundation blogged about projects that don’t go aswell, as the business plan would often like. So i’m starting to see some examples of this. I blogged about it at m p, g a d v dot com, a very recent block post. But i’m just encouraging you to think about how. Failures and shortcomings don’t have to be abject failures, but can be turned around and shared with donors in a way that is productive not only for your non-profit but also for the non-profit community generally and importantly, is then accompanied by a very sensible plan for what to do next, and that actually has brought out in that in that case, foundation blogged post, and you’ll find links to all those on my blogged at mpg geever dot com. I’m joined now by scott koegler scott is the show’s technology expert and he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news. Scott, welcome back. Hi, tony. Thanks. Thanks for inviting me it. Nice to be here. Pleasure to have you back. We’re going to talk about fund-raising software. You’ve done some very recent reviews. Tell us what’s current in fund-raising software. Um, when we did recently, i think it was two weeks ago we put up a a list of different, uh, software products that are available specifically for fund-raising. And i think, uh, i think i’d like to start out with how do you go about making a selection? Yeah. How does an organization decide? What’s right for them, right? Because the reviews that we put up go from the very smallest, almost a single user organization up to multi use yourself, there’s a lot of variation in styles, types and costs, of course, and i kind of suggested three different criteria. When you go to look for software, the first one really is budget. You need to have some kind of money pretty much every one of these applications costs something a lot of them have three trials, but they really won’t get you very far. They need to find what kind of the budget you have that you might be able to spend on on a local application like this for a smaller organizations got that includes even if your budget is just in the several hundreds or even low thousands, you still can. You still can get some traction with this software. Certainly i there’s some that’s starting on the two hundred dollars, so they’re accessible teo, almost any size organization, but i still recommend starting with a budget for any size organization, even if you’re huge and what after budget, the second one would be help. That kind of the the makeup of the organization is everyone in the same place you’d be working in office is everybody coming to the same location? Or do you have people that work remotely? And that will kind of define a type of software that you’re looking for? Last time i was on, we talked a lot about haserot service, yes, and just to remind people that was the july sixteenth show. If you want to listen to got night, talking about software is a service. Sorry, scott, please go ahead. And so if you’re if you’re in one office, you’ve got some got all kinds of options there because you khun install the software on a pcr on a server in the office, and generally all of these applications can be used by multiple people, same time as long as there’s a network involved. But if there are people that are remotely located or working home, or even work with a smartphone, they get maximum ex accessibility through applications were there installed online. We’re sas suffers the service or hosted kinds of applications, which can be applied for people that all work in the same office just as easily. The only requirement there is that it that somehow you have an internet connection. So that that’s really the criteria? The stand alone? If you’re in one office, you definitely want to be ableto know that you can net workflows and it’s not just a single user application. Unless you’re very, very small with a one person staff and and scott, could you just distinguish for us? Ah, a couple of different installation methodologies, i guess there’s, the local network multi user and the sas local you described is that’s just installed on a pc what’s the difference between network and multi user, uh, good point and it’s also a very fine point. Networking implies the use of the server. So there’s, generally a server installed somewhere in the office. Servers generally run server operating systems like microsoft server or some kind of winnicks server. And soccer is installed there, and it is connected over the network to individual pc water stations. Multi user is just a bit different and it gets confusing and sometimes the definitions overlap. But multi user means that multiple people can use the same application doesn’t necessarily imply that that application’s installed on their server. It could just be installed on a pc that is connected to other pieces. Through a network in the office, i see and then you don’t have the the security concerns and even the physical cooling concerns that you have around server. I wouldn’t say that there are no security concerns because anytime anything is shared, their their security concerns, ok? And i think it’s pretty much a given anymore that any office is going to have internet access, and as soon as you open up that connection to the internet, then you have security concerns. But most applications today do a pretty good job off keeping the data safe, and there are plenty of security applications that air either low cost or no cost that could be installed on individual work stations or servers that will keep the bad guys away or at least make it very difficult for him to get in. I’m talking to scott koegler, the show’s technology expert scott’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find at n p tech news. Dot com scott let’s dive in and talk about some of the individual products that you’ve reviewed recently at non-profit technology news? Sure, and i’ll just say also that the products that i’m going to talk about here are written up in a article on the site, so if people want more detail on that, you can certainly go there. I’ll talk about the kind of start with the lower end there’s one called fundraiser basic software and again for the lynx, and this should go to the site, get the links. Uh, this is a single database system. It’s good for the fifty thousand donors, and that may be a lot that may not be enough for you, but that’s kind of a maximum for this type of application. It is multi user. But as i said, multiuse er means that it’s installed on a single on a single workstation and accessed over a network. Those who make it bad or good. It just means that it’s, not a server based installation. One of the things that fund-raising basic has is a pretty good mailing capability. So you can take your the donor list and they’ve made it out into different segments and then send me now out from there. And that’s, certainly one of the most basic and sometimes most important things that fund-raising organization could do. And you said we were starting at the low end? What are the startup costs for getting into fundraiser? Basic. The cost for the product is about two hundred dollars. Oh, my gosh, yeah, so that puts it within reach of i wouldn’t say anybody that certainly a lot of folks, so for two hundred dollars on organization can have ah, good features for up to fifty thousand donors, right? And its multi user, which is i mean, you could have i don’t know exactly what the limitations in terms of numbers of users, but i would say, you know, if it could go to ten that’s, probably more than most small organizations were made, and are there ongoing costs after the two hundred dollars initial purchase? With any of these applications, there typically annual subscription fees for maintenance and updates the in general, those he’s run about ten percent of the original purchase cost? I have to tell you that i don’t really know what the specific costs for fund-raising basic is in terms of ongoing costs, but if it’s twenty dollars, a year or even one hundred dollars a year that’s probably a bargain. No kidding. And does that fee typically include support if there are questions? Or is that usually just found online? I had a support work. I believe they offer female support rather than phone support than the support options there. I believe that they do have additional support options, but those with the extra cost. Okay? And that product again is called fundraiser basic. Is that right? That’s? Correct. All right. And what was another one you’d like to share with us? There’s one called a raise. A r a fast fund? No, the whole raise fast. Fund-raising non-profit fund-raising software. A long name. Okay, but they’ll find the link on your website. It and p tech news. Dot com. Right? Correct. Okay. When? When we just call it a raise on rachel is a good name for thank you. What do you want to tell us about a raise? Well, it’s it’s a little bit more expensive than fund-raising basic it’s. Three hundred dollars. But i would call that still in the bargain basement? Yes. No, it allows you to do batch entry of data. So if you have your list of donors already available, you can upload that into the system rather than enter them one at a time. And that that’s important to you. You know, if you’re coming from you have any kind of history at all. It gets pretty tedious. Tryingto enter name. Do you know? Would that include batch entry from an excel spreadsheet? Do you know? I believe it excel spreadsheets or asking files another. And you, khun generally export in asking spreadsheet as a text file. Okay, what? What is what is asking jargon jail when we have a jogging jail time? Probably that’s. Okay, i’ll catch you on the ward in the jordan job. Now that the warden what’s the jailer. A warden? Yeah, the warden in charge in jail. What’s, the asking me and scott asking is, um, i’m not going to even give you the the acronyms. Title letters, it’s, text basically something that you can read and as a text document rather than excel, which if you if you have xl that’s great. You can open your file on x. L see it. You don’t have xl. What you have is a file that is in some kind of computer language that is easily readable. Okay, so ah, word file is an asking file and no it’s, not it. Is in a sense. Yes. Okay, but it’s, what? You see when you open a word document text. Okay? And the point is you khun batch upload these files to a raise. That’s correct. Okay, so if you’re working on something that’s not dedicated to fund-raising at all like an excel spreadsheet you can you can upload easily waiting. Just a minute. We have left before the break. What do you what? What other features of ray’s should our listeners know about? It has a has a large capacity database. I think it goes even above the fifty thousand that we were talking about. So if if you if you’re small and you have a user base that is greater than fifty thousand, they want to look at the rays rather than fund-raising basic. But i will say that it’s still in that arena? Yeah, the sound ideal perfectly suited for small and midsize non-profits e-giving just one more before the break. It’s called scott i’ve gotta hold you off. We don’t have time but we do have time after the break. Scott’s going tto be with us after this break. I’m talking to scott koegler, the show’s technology expert. He’s, the editor of non-profit technology news. Stay with us. They didn’t think dick tooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Get in. Nothing. Good. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people, better business people. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call us ed to one, two, nine, six, four three, five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back. I’m joined by our tech expert scott koegler scott, before the break. You had wanted to say something. Was it something more about a raise? Sure. Actually, what i’d like to do is talk about filosa exceed, which is kind of the next step up. Okay? Please, just say that. Say the name of the product again. Well, it’s still osa teo s a. Excuse me. All right, thanks. Please. What? What do you want to share? It’s basic fund-raising and donor management. It’s? Uh, it’s actually a smaller version of what telos a produces on a larger scale. So what? Just saying that what that means is that if you’re a growing organization tolosa exceed get you in at the basics. And again, basics is about five hundred dollars. So it’s a little bit it’s another step up from the fundraiser basic and from the res, but we’re still so much we’re so far below a thousand dollars even. Absolutely, sir. Three great products for the most expensive of the three is five hundred dollars. Okay, i’m sorry. I’m excited. No that’s. Good that i and i think that there are some things to be excited about. Here for organizations that have been struggling with excel spreadsheets and word documents and trying to manage email emerges using outlook and word. These things really offer a great way to get past that. One of the things that exceed does is it provides drill down reports and reports are pretty interesting. You know what you want to know, obviously is how is my fund-raising effort going? Who’s donating what what are the demographics of the people that are donating most? And how can i reach them better? So you want to be able to run reports that that show you in some kind of order, you can sort them in the however you like, but let’s say from most donation to least yeah, a drill down function allows you to take a look at an item that says donations of one thousand dollars, for instance, and you click that item and then it it opens up another window that shows you will hear all the donors that donated a one thousand dollar level, and from there you can draw farther. And so it gives you greater detail every time you drill into a particular item. So it sounds like the reporting is more robust on tele succeed than ah, a raise or fundraiser. Basic right. And i think that’s, a product of the fact that this is again a scaled down version of their big product. Most big products will have these kind of capabilities. And so the littlest has decided that they’ll include this advanced capability in their basic products. And is there go ahead, please? Another thing that they have with this is i just talked about the email function and urging they haven’t advanced email management capability allows you to to emerge pretty much the description, and i just said, take a lister segment of your donor’s based on their contribution level and send on ly them a specific level, a specific letter with specific information in it, and send a different email to a different set of donors, and this is all managed from within the within the program all within the program, right? Yeah, outstanding. Is there another one that you want to share with us? Sure, i just make one more point about told police that is, if you’re if you’re doing reporting, which becomes no more important, as as you’re not proper clothes, tell osa also has a data export to quickbooks, so that gives you a direct connection without having to do manual entry. Yes, and your finance, your financial officer will appreciate that very much right, and the board of directors to and theorem whatever that comes to bear the next one here does actually hit the one thousand dollar level on that is fun. Easy, that’s sweaters, fund-raising software, it’s, right in two thousand dollar mark. It has multiple modules, so this one is really available on a modular level, so you can actually define your own pricing based on the number of modules that you you take or that you need. And you know, not every organization needs every module, so you can customize it, and it also allows you to grow your capabilities as your needs grow. Scott, we have to leave it there. Just say the name of that last product again, please. Fundez easy, fundez easy, that is scott koegler he’s, the show’s technology expert, and he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news. Scott, thanks very much for joining us. We’ll see you will talk to you again in a few weeks. Thanks, johnny. And i want to thank both my guests today. It’s always good to have scott back and, of course, also alice aspen marched founder of the attention factor very glad that she could join us in the studio next week. My guest is going to be chris mcgurn of pnc bank and he’s going to share with us techniques toe hyre the right financial partner for your non-profit and to have a good working relationship with your bank owe our other financial partner that you might have, and also we’re gonna introduce a new feature next week. I’m looking, we’re looking an individual who’s in a job search and a non-profit that has a job opening. Each of those is going to be paired in a different segment, the individual be with a recruiter and the non-profit with the opening will be within hr consultant. We’re going to work to help both of them one of the individual side and one of the non-profit side marketing that job. If you want to participate in a future looking, we’re looking segment you khun goto our facebook page and contact does there? Yes, we have a facebook page. You can go there. For email alerts on the show, and you can also go there to see what my live appearance calendar is. You can also go there to talk to me about having me appear live for you. I want to thank our creative producer, claire meyerhoff, our line producer and owner of talking alternative broadcasting, sam liebowitz and our social media, as always, is done by regina walton. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. You’re listening on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. Join us next week. My guests will be chris mcgurn of pnc bank on those financial partners, and the new feature i’m looking. We’re looking. That show will be next friday, one p m eastern, right here, as always, on talking alternative dot com. E-giving ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network waiting to get a drink. E-giving cubine i really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join joshua margolis, fitness expert, at two one two eight sixty five nine to nine xero, or visit w w w died mind over matter. N y c dot com oppcoll this is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo i will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 at aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on job strategies and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelfth. Adequate grayce for a Job fair from 10 a m to three p m for more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one. Are you stuck in your business or career? Trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall. This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. Buy-in you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Snusz

Nonprofit Radio for September 10, 2010 : Printing & Direct Mail: Tips to Save Money & Time

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

You can subscribe on iTunes and listen anytime, anyplace on the device of your choice.

Tony’s Guest:

Tim Kennon, who has 23 years in the business and is president of McVicker & Higginbotham.

Topic: Tricks to save you money on printing and direct mail


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

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Hyre dahna welcome, i’m tony martignetti, the aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent if you feel that your non-profits smaller midsize is sometimes lost in the shuffle may be lost in the media doesn’t get the kind of attention that it deserves. You have a home here at tony martignetti non-profit radio last week, we talked about your people being the most precious resource that you’re non-profit has how to attract hyre motivate and retain the best employees for your organization. That was last week. This week, my guest is going to be tim kenan, and we’re going to be talking about printing and direct mail tips to save you money and time to get the most out of your printing and direct mail and postage budgets. Tim is the president of mcvicar and higginbotham and that’s, a print and direct mail or letter house shop, which has been around since nineteen fifty eight tim is my guest all this hour, and we’re going to be talking about printing and direct mail, saving you time and money and working best with your print shop that’s all after this break stay. With me. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Hyre hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable race? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Durney welcome back on your host, tony martignetti you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com i’m thinking this week based on something that i saw in the new york times this was on august twentieth, new york times piece by judith warner, and it was called the charitable giving divide. It touches on some subjects that i’ve thought about and been thinking about for for quite some time for years, motivations for charitable giving and specifically that taxes are not the primary motivation that there are a host of other factors that typically full ahead of tax incentives. When people are asked what there, why they give and what motivates their giving and those are, you’ll see that they want to motivate and encourage charitable giving in their family from their children that they want to give back to a cause that means a lot to them that that has either inspired them or in a lot of cases been important to them personally in ah, a personal or a family situation, so that there are other factors besides taxes that are motivating charitable giving, and that sort of has implications to for the obama charitable deduction limitation initiative, it’s at this point, it’s still just a proposal, but that is that it would. The proposal is that it would limit the charitable income tax deduction for wealthy charitable donors, and i don’t think that will have the impact on the non profit sector that a lot of people do. A lot of people think that that’s just going to be disastrous for non-profits and i think it will hurt non-profits but it’s, i don’t think it’s going to be the disaster that a lot of people predict, and history has shown that charitable giving always rebounds after depression, recession and tax changes that might popularly think might popularly get people thinking that the but that tax changes going toe reduce giving terrible giving always comes back within two to three years after significant events that people think will discourage giving forever and you know it, just make it fall off a cliff there’s a little more about this subject at my block, which is you’ll find at m p g a d v dot com and what again, what got me thinking about this was the new york times piece by judith warner, the charitable giving divide my guest today is tim kenan, and he is the president of mcvicar and higginbotham, which is a printing in direct mail company. They’ve been in business since nineteen fifty eight tim as president has been with the company. Now for twenty two years, mcvicar and higginbotham works with some of the biggest non-profits in the country, but also importantly for you, our audience works a lot with small and midsize non-profits and our subject today is printing and direct mail. We wantto give you tips too, save money and time and make this budget item these budget items most efficient for you. And i’m very happy that tim kenan’s work brings him to the studio today. Tim, welcome to the show. Good morning. Thank you, tony. My pleasure to have you, uh, let’s start with printing. This is for small and midsize non-profits you know, um, printing can be a substantial budget item. What what sort of opening thoughts do you have for non-profits tto help them save time and money around around they’re printing? Well, the printing is a huge budget item for everybody and especially, you know, connected to direct mail. You’ve got to be very careful who you choose to do your work and you want somebody that’s goingto understand direct mail with printing and direct mail and direct mail in terms of fund-raising non-profits can mean anything from news letters, too invitations to special events, toe acquisitions of new members or donors re newell’s acknowledgments of gifts so there’s a whole realm of types of mailings you’re going to be doing to be successful, but you really want a printer who does understand the male side of it because with all of the regulations and the post office on, they’re constantly changing nowadays, it could be ah difficult trail to go down and be successful. So you’re looking for a printer who has a great reputation. You’re looking for someone who does understand what you’re trying to achieve, and of course, you’re looking for a good price. So the print and the direct mail functions really have to work closely together, and i’m sure in the hour will be we’ll be delving into whether it’s better to have them both done by the same house or or separately and if separately, how to get the two working closely, but it sounds like you’re one of your main opening points. Is what’s happening in direct mail? Really is going to drive what happens in the printing? Yeah. You have to be very careful. But, you know, let’s, go back a little bit here. You know, we deal with we have about one hundred twenty clients right now, and they’re very steady clients. We really don’t lose people over the years. But whoever you’re dealing with, you have tio have a good relationship with them. But the point with the print side of everything is that yeah, yeah, just there’s. So many things that could go wrong on that and it’s not necessary for the printer and the mailer to be the same vendor. What is necessary, though, is to be a lot of communication up front when you’re designing that piece to go into the mail. So you want that print shop and the mail shop, which is also called a letter shop. Is that right? That’s? Correct. So when we say a letter shop that’s the same as direct mail, your letter shop is just a wonderful little term for it. You know, when they started out, you know? It was basically personalized letters creating them, and the process was very slow. But that’s what we were known as when we began in nineteen fifty eight letter shop, the letter shop. All right, so when we see that it’s it’s synonymous with with the direct mail, yeah, more often now they’re called male houses, but people from the olden days tend to keep that letter shop term it’s nice and ah, in terms of printing, what about custom sizes? And a lot of people want their piece toe sort of stand out because it’s an odd shape what’s your advice around? Sure. Yeah. You want your piece to stand out in the mail? Somebody goes out to the mailbox, picks up ten letters from magazines. They want their piece toe jump out of them. A lot of times they’re thinking ok, a larger piece and nine by twelve over a much smaller piece. One of the pitfalls many organisations fall into is that they make a square piece and that’s a no, no, because you’re gonna have a surcharge on the post office from the post office with the poster. So you’re going to pay quite a bit extra. For every piece it’s in the mail for a square, a perfectly square piece, yeah, there’s, a there’s, a specific ratio for length and whip for every mailer and that’s where male shops, letter letter shops like idea to come in handy, because there’s, a lot of information need to know when you’re going to design a male piece. Okay, and we’re going to pursue that after this break. My guest is tim kenan, with mcvicar and higginbotham. Please stay with us. You didn’t think that shooting, good ending, you’re listening to the talking alternate network you get in. Thing. Cubine hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 at aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m, we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on jobs, try to jeez and networking, come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelve at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair, intending m 23, p m. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one. I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join joshua margolis, fitness expert two one two eight sixty five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w died mind over matter. N y c dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Zoho dahna welcome back. My guest is tim kenan, president of mcvicar and higginbotham, a printing and letter shop, and we now know that letter shop is the current term is the old sort of quaint term for direct mail shop tim. Before the break, we were talking about sizing of print pieces and your advice that square is bad. Let’s, let’s go into a little more detail about why square pieces, although they attract attention, what’s the implication there well, there’s a surcharge! I forget the exact amount, but you may be paying up to ten cents more per piece. It’s it’s considered a nonstandard piece by the post office anything that can’t be handled through there. Ah, ocr machinery, which is optical character reading eyes not it can’t be automated, so you’re going to pay extra money but a handling it has to be handled by a person at the post office and that’s one of the things they don’t want it all and this is actually right in line with what you said when we opened, which is your printer needs to know what the direct mail is going to be doing and and vice versa. So your direct mail shop needs to know that there’s a square piece coming because that’s going to impact the price they’re going to give you. Sure, because you’re an organization out there and you’re planning let’s say you’re planning a special event, an invitation, a gala affair. You’re very important to the organization because it’s ah fund-raising event that could pretty much keep them going all year round. You’re talking to your print to you tell him what you want. You talking to your designer first and your printer and you’re coming up with an idea that just may not be good financially. Budget wise, it’s going teo cost you extra money, and it could also cost you extra time getting delivered because of the because it doesn’t go through the standard exact ocr equipped doesn’t go through and these machines at the post office they’re very, very high speed and you know if it has to be handled manually by a postal clerk it’s going to take extra time? First class mail is going to take anywhere between one two through day, three days going across country um non-profit now, which is what a lot of my clients use is going. To take anywhere from basically four to seven days we are seeing non-profit mail going a lot faster nowadays simply because the volumes at the post office there’s so much lower than they were two, three years ago, okay? And we’re going to get into those different postage rates to you’re talking about first class and non-profit we’ll get into those while we’re on the printing. What else besides size on dh shape will will impact printing budget so that people may be can save money by not doing exactly what they’d like? Write well, you have to be very concerned with the address side of a mailer or an envelope, and since if you are a non profit organization, which i’m assuming you are, you have to make sure that you have the correct address on there because the return address if you have an incorrect return address, the post office is going to take away your non-profit rape and make you go at either the standard rate, which is commercial bulk or first class. So you need to make sure that your name and address is properly situated in the upper left hand corner you need to make. Sure that that apartment indicia on the right side, which is the indicator of how the postage is going to be paid, is worded correctly with your proper permit number. With the post office it’s going to be entered into, you need to make sure that you have enough space for the address where the addressee it has to be four inches long because you want to be able to get all the information, and you also want to get a barcode in there because the post office requires it what’s this indicia toe a little more about the indicia in the upper right corner. What is that? Well, a lot of organizations, they’re going to use an indie shit teo for posting their mail. You can post your mail by stamp indicia or a meteor strike, but most of the time it’s going to be done first, say, a newsletter or just a self mailer, a piece it’s not going into an envelope. You’re going to have an indy, shawn and it’s important that indicia specifies where you’re dropping off the mail. On what your permit number is the city and the post office, so it has to be. Written explicitly according to post office standards, in a lot of people wing that part, they say, oh, yeah, you know, i know what this should say, it’s a little box on the right side where normally you would have a stamp for a personal piece of mail i see and what else in terms of the printing that’s going to impact budget? I mean, for instance, a lot of organizations like to have bleeds because a bleed looks looks prettier, but that has a big budget impact and things like that it does. But a lot of people are going to, of course, want to bleed on their piece of the artwork looks better. Onda bleed, of course, is where your printing over the edges and then it’s trimmed down so it looks like it was all printed right to the edge. The bleed isn’t going to affect very much most printers air set up to assume a bleed. If you ask a printer about a job he’s going to assume you’re going to believe that piece and he’s going to price it that way, it’s often not even a question, but aside from that, you have to be concerned about how, if it’s a folded mailer, you have to be concerned about where that fold opens up and where it closes. Okay, so now we’re talking about a piece that a cz you’re designing it, so we’re still sort of in between print design and printing it’s a piece that is going to literally be folded, and then it has to be sealed, right? That’s what you’re talking about, right? And in order to qualify for the best postal rates, the automation non-profit rates, you have to have the opening at the top, so you’re looking at a you know, ah ah, five and a half by eight and a half brochure now and those kinds of brochures now you’re going to have three openings because you’re gonna have the spine at the bottom and an opening on the sides and on the top right for that. The post office is gonna want you now to put on three way for seals, which is a lot of extra money and extra time by your letter shop male house. So you have to be concerned about how the pieces designed in terms of golden opening, because, again, they they’re going to be putting this through high speed ocr machines, and they wanted to make sure it’s not going to mangle when it goes through them. If you’re thinking about a piece like that that has a spine and three open sides, might it be cheaper toe put that inside an envelope? Yeah, sometimes it is, but of course, sabelo prices air expensive. It depends on the size of the job. You know, if you’re doing a fifty thousand piece Job that’s 1 thing to print envelopes on dh, then go through the insertion process it’s going to add a lot of cost you may the cost for the extra wafer seal is going to be far less than sticking into an envelope. Okay, but again, your letter shop your mail house needs to know that this is going to be a three sided it’s going to open on three sides, because that has implications for the pricing that they’re going to give you because of this extra seal. Sure, absolutely. And a lot of times we don’t know if our client is printing outside with a different printer that we don’t have a relationship we don’t know until it. Comes into our shipping receiving area what it looks like unless they tell us now we try very hard communication wise to make sure we know up front what we’re receiving. But it’s. Just not the case all the time. Very often we know without a job because it’s landed at our doorstep. My guest is tim kenan, president of mcvicar and higginbotham. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Tim, you started to allude teo, the different postage rates let’s, let’s sort of move from now printing to the to the mail function. Although they certainly overlap is you can tell from our conversation what are the different postage rates? And how can we make sense of that? I think this is an area of confusion for a lot of well, it’s, an area of confusion because people do get confused between the rates and how it’s going to be posted. So, first of all, for nonprofit organization, everybody could mail first class and then from first class you paying the exact amount that anybody would pay, mailing one piece so forty four cents right now. Then you can do first class pre sort which will bring down your postage approximately five six seven cents and all depends on the density of the mailing into specific zip codes. You know, if your mailing nationally and your mailing five to ten thousand pieces, you’re not going to get us much of a break on the the postage. The confusing part is that there are so many different rates within even non-profit you could be paying nine cents for one piece and sixteen cents for another piece in the same mailing say, if you had ten pieces just going to california, you’re mailing five thousand let’s say you have three thousand going into manhattan at at five thousand. Those pieces could probably go for nine, ten, eleven cents, while the other pieces that are going far outside to other states are going to cost you up towards fifteen, sixteen, seventeen cents, so that could be a confusing part. Then, of course, those are the rates. So you got first class, first class pre sort and then non-profit and a lot of people say bulk mail, but really it’s on the commercial side of standard and on the non-profit side, it simply caldnear non-profit standard but that’s, what a lot of my clients are using especially for their newsletters and communications like that. So it’s called non-profit standard and that’s. What that’s, what people mean when they say bulk or that’s, what you interpret, they mean when they say that’s, what that’s, what they do, they’ll get confused and say, non-profit pre sword or first class non-profit and all kinds of terms like that. But generally, if you’re talking to a good male house letter shop, they’re going to explain all this to you. How it can be posted as i mentioned earlier stamp, indicia or meter strike. So you get that at it away now. What rate of male of what class of male do you want to use? First class, first class? Pretty sort or non-profit and then you go from there. And are you familiar with the research? Are there are there ways of determining whether the live stamp gets better reply rates, return rates than the indicia or the or the postage meter? Well, we we use stamps on probably ninety percent of our work non-profit stamps or first class stamps or first class priest sort stamps, we believe there’s definitely a difference, because when that piece comes in the mail, you know, the everyday person getting their piece of mail from a non profit organization, whether it be a hospital of school or club, they belong tio, they’re not quite sure what a non-profits stamp is, so when they’re getting it, they’re looking at it and they’re not going to treat it as a third class mail. They’re going to see a stamp on it if they see an indy show on it and it’s in an envelope, they may think, ok, this has a little bit of a junkie look to it, and i don’t need to open up right away. And the most important thing, of course, is to had the recipient opened up the piece of mail as soon as possible. So you do see a difference with your clients work? Sure, because, as i say, the step teo putting on the stamps is another one in a cost, money and it’s done very quickly. It could be done during the addressing process stamps or a fixed there fixed it a high speed, but the using the stamp can have ah good effect on your mail and it can get it open quicker and it just makes it look more natural. So i see the really again sort of pervasive in our conversation is the need for the communication between the printer. Well, really, starting earlier, the designer? Yeah, the printer and the and the male house sure, a design that it does have a good knowledge of the mail system and how mail pieces should be designed, starting with that is really a big step, because when you look at your cost to do any kind of a mailing your thinking, okay, you know, my this is going to cost the printing is going to cost this design is going to cost this and then the letter shop, but what you’re not considering is the mistakes that can happen, which can cost you a lot more in time and money, postage wise or just extra services that are going to be needed to get it in the mail. And time is usually critical. Your example of the gala thes pieces, whether it’s, the save the date or the actual invitation, these need to be on time. Absolutely. Tony, you’d think that, you know, a lot of organizations have the entire year planned out. They’ve been doing the same things for years. They’re having the gallery there basically on the same night every year or that friday of that weak or tuesday, whatever it might be, but it always comes down to for one reason or another, and it might start on design. They’re running late, so we were very often behind the eight ball once the printing is done, because the printing is thought to take x amount of time. But the mailing is thought to be magical and just go out there to the post office. But you have to allow a good amount of time for that male process to happen correctly, and it sounds like there is advantage than teo bringing the printing and the male house operations into one place. Well, of course, i believe so, and, you know i do on a letter shop and print shop on dh, i think it’s critical to do both at the same place for any number of reasons. One of the most important ones is to make sure you’re printing the right amount of materials. What will happen is you, bill, to put in a print daughter for let’s, say five thousand pieces. Well, there’s going to be wasting that process of printing and we may only get forty, five hundred forty, six hundred from the printer, although they said they sent us five thousand it’s critical when ordering printing toe always order ten percent more so that when it does get to your letter shop, they have enough to complete the mailing. Because if you get to the end and you’re not able to mail to four or five hundred people, you’re going to have to go back to the beginning and it’s going to cost you an immense amount of money. What accounts for this loss? What? Why should we be factoring in an extra ten percent? Well, basically it’s finishing in the printing process. You know these whatever your printing, whether it be an invitation or ah, newsletter flyer, a brochure especially talked about bleeds earlier that as toe after it has dried, it has to be cut that it has to be bound or folded in some way. So you have a final peace that’s suitable to go into the mail. So there’s, where you need to, you can have a lot of waste and you need to make sure that with that waste with the cutting, folding, etcetera finding possibly you have to order enough to make sure the final product will i arrive at your letter shop and be able to be process entirely in the two minutes or so that we have before the next break, what’s another advantage or to of having these to print and and direct mail in the same in the same place besides having the right quantity of of pieces. Well, i’ll give you a good one. This happens all the time where people come up short on material is because one of the reasons they do come up short is because they’re not quite sure what their final list is going to bay all of a sudden another list can come out of the blue and you know it might just be a few hundred more names, but they’ve already ordered the printing. If you are printer and mailer are the same vendor thie that vendor khun turn around quickly and when he realizes that we’re having more, we have more names here. Then we officially thought we were going to have they could turn on a diamond. Print more pretty quickly, but if you have to, if those two vendors are split up, then you’ve gotta have those two vendors agree on. Okay, why are we short here? Who’s fault is this, and then get the matter taken care of, and sometimes that can caused delays and in just a minute or so we have before the break. It sounds like also time is a factor, because if you’re a printer and letter shop or to different places there’s going to be transportation between the two. Oh, sure, it’s a huge factor time, because often we only have a couple of days. Once things arrive in our shop, people wanted out extremely quickly. So if there’s any kind of an error it’s great to have everything under one roof so it can be taken care of expeditiously within a day or two rather than waiting another week. My guest is tim cannon, president of mcvicar and higginbotham printing and direct mail company. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 and aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m, we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on jobs, try to jeez and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelve at aqueduct racetrack. For a Job fair from 10 a m to three p m. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio my guest is tim kenan, and we’re talking about saving you money and time and getting the most out of your printing and direct mail budgets. Tim let’s, talk a little about the actual stamps just cause you you said if somebody sees one type of stamp, they may treat the piece as they’ve received it differently than another piece. So these stamps all the live stamps now all look different. Well, they dio, you know, that non-profits stamp, of course, there’s only one and it looks different than the first class stamp or the first class pre sort stamp now generally there’s only one of those as well. Remember these pre sort stamps come on large rolls of twenty, five hundred or five thousand, i think, and they’re set up to be fixed as the pieces moving through the addressing equipment or separately. But for the most part, people aren’t going to really examine the stamp unless it’s a commemorative stamps and getting into that that’s more expensive to a fixed because it has to be done by hand. So it’s emmanuel process so very often, folks, when they’re having some sort. Of gala or just some sort of special event. They want to mail that invitation out with a commemorative stamp and that’s going to have to be handup fixed. You do see that, then? Oh, all the time, that’s, what slows us down? We do an awful lot of special event invitations and that can really slow down your scheduling because the stamping process has to be done manually. So we have we’ll have several people working on a job, and all they’re doing is a fixing stamps by hand. And do you see a difference in response rates? Can you say? But when? When it’s a commemorative stamp versus ah, standard non-profit stamp, i don’t have hard proof in reading people. Do you know there have been many articles written about how the stamp on the envelope or the high personalization of the package is going to have a higher impact on your response rate? And i just i do believe in general, that this stamp is going to make a difference because it’s going to be perceived as a little bit more of a personalized piece of mail in your mailbox than just, you know, some come on. By the local car dealership you mentioned personalization, let’s talk a little about how pieces can be personalized and to what degree and and the impact that that has on your on your budget. What are the different sort of degrees of personalization? Well, the simplest form of personalization would be to do a personalized letter and then have the name and address show up through a window envelope and thereby you do not have a match part of the mailing when you get a little more involved with the personalization, with the response device being personalized separately. So you have a little slip in there for people to fill out, but there could be another piece in there that is personalized. There could be a response envelope even we have clients who personalized those in the upper left hand corner. They actually put that person’s name on there. So we do anywhere from no match personalization with just the letter in the window. Two, three, four and five way matches. Of course, when you’re addressing the envelope that’s part of the personalization as well. So you’ve got a standard fund-raising mailing teo people that already have given to your organization or already are a member of the organization will very often be eh letter personalized, a response device personalized and an outer envelope close space envelope not a window and that’s personalized as well. So this is what i hear when ah, shop is talking about ah, double match or triple match or two way or three way match. You’re talking about the number of pieces that have personalization and therefore need to be matched so that they go together. That’s, right? And the more personalization you do have in a mailing, the more impact it will have. Of course, you want to get the piece open first that’s, they’re your first goal. But if it’s fully personalized on the letter and of course a close base envelope is going to have a better look less of a junk feel than a window envelope. So three way personalization is very, very common. So wait, let me stop you. So three way would be matching the outer envelope. The letter and what the response piece. A separate response. What we call a response device. It’s just ah buckslip basically, that has your name and information on it and also has different amounts of information that we’re asking you to give as a donor or a different level of membership to come on, we deal with basically hospitals, performing arts centers, museums, schools, colleges and, you know, when you’re doing a mailing like this and your personal things, you’re personalizing it, you’re going to basically look at what the donor or member has done in the past, and you’re gonna play that response device off of that if they’ve given five hundred dollars, in the past, you’re going to ask them to give another gift of maybe five hundred seven fifty one thousand fifteen hundred if they’ve given twenty five dollars, in the past, you’re going to create four options that are going to start basically with twenty five and go up to one hundred, so you’re going to use that response device based on what that person has done in the past e-giving wise or what they were as a member because you always want to get people to do a little bit more on this on this ask and so now we’re getting into the complexity of this, so you’re not only personalizing the replied device with the person’s. Name and address, but also based on their giving level. So we’ve got lots of different reply devices for the same mailing. Sure, and in terms of membership, you don’t want to somebody to go backwards, and really, you don’t want him to just stay where they are. If they came on, is an individual or a dual member three, four, five years ago. Now you want to boost them up. You want to get them into higher levels of membership, with more benefits. And so you’re going to design that piece specifically, the response device, to kind of push them in that direction, not just leave, okay, everybody gets one generic response device, and everybody stays at their current membership because or donor. Progress forward and keep on growing with you and this this applies to for for our audience, for small and midsize non-profit was sure the smaller the mailing generally, the more important it is if you’re if you’re going to be bailing, teo, whatever twenty five, fifty thousand people and we do that a lot, but the bigger concern is the smaller volume mailings that are going to your best members or your highest donors and that’s where you’re really going toe, play up the personalization and try to touch them closely. And you’re talking now about mailings that might be just a few hundred people. A smaller organization might have a list of just three or four or five hundred people. Oh, sure, go back to the gala affair. You know, you you may be sending out an invitation to twenty, five hundred people hoping that they’ll come to your gala and raise a lot of money, but you’re going tohave a much smaller group that very often we put the mailing together and it’ll go back to the organization for more hand written personalization so they can really hook thie spokes in. Oh, that’s. Interesting. Yeah, some say a little more about with some of that what some organizations doing handwriting replies, sure, and you may have seen that in the mail yourself. It really gives it a lift that it came right from their offices right from the organization, and it has a great effect. You know, they might be just something as simple as when we send them back the package with a letter inside in the response device, or if it’s an invitation where they just cross out dear mr cannon and say, dear tim or hi tim hope you can make it this year looking forward to seeing you, and that has a big effect on people and that’s work that that you, as a letter shop can do for the organization very often. What they’ll do is take that portion of the male back. So if this is an invitation to an affair, we might mail a certain portion. The larger portion, you know, ninety percent of it, and then ten percent of it or five percent even might go back to the organization, and then it might be distributed to board members or people that are on the committee for the affair. And those folks will take those and personalize them in handwriting and then just mail in those themselves. We’ll put a stamp on it, so they just have to personalize it a little bit, seal it, chop it in the mailbox. Are there letters shops that or maybe yours does this? Where if if they want that personal feel but they don’t want to impose on a boardmember or or they just they wanted more. If i could say a more generic personal field, can you can you do that work for them? Maybe just cross out the name the dear mrs or miss mr and write the first name in eyes that used the way we used to do that years and years ago? Quite a bit, but not as much anymore. Way usedto also hand sign a lot of the letters, and occasionally you still have people asking you to do that. But the technology with laser printing color laser printing has gotten to where the signature can look really terrific. But some people still insist on it being hand signed and that we used to do that a lot in the old days, but we don’t do it as much anymore as you can imagine, it takes a lot of time to sit there and have folks hand signing, even if it’s just a thousand letters and you want it all to look perfect but that’s what they’ll do if they can’t get the boardmember to do it, of course, there’s somebody on staff back at the organization that’s going to take on that role more likely nowadays, or a lot of organizations have volunteers now a day to come in and work and that’s a great job for them to be doing, even if you have one volunteer have them doing something like that, putting a little extra personalization on apiece that’s an ideal suggestion for a smaller organization help ah, great way of having volunteers absolute about absolutely on and of course there are also signing machines there are signing a live pen. Yes, there are. I’ve never we’ve never of course, gotten one, but we didn’t really have a need for it, but they are really big. I think in political male with those types letters, and we don’t get into that, but they can, of course be used for everything. It’s not a big thing around here, but i think it is very big down in the virginia maryland area where they do an awful, awful lot of fund-raising mail like this morpher cause related organizations and for politics, elections, but it’s ah, great alternative to use one of those hand signing machines we do offset prints signatures very often, because that will look even a little bit better than the laser digitize signature, and that can get pretty complicated when you’re talking about any mailing, no matter how large or small is often broken up into all kinds of different segments, according to who these donors are or who these members are, and you’ll have different letters and different people signing them. S o if you have to, if the client wishes to have the signature look as true as possible and they can’t do it by hand signing or a machine, we will do offset, which is traditional princessa we’ll print that pre print the letter had maybe already printed, but we’ll print it with the signature and position and then bring it over to the laser machines and do the personalization at their the signature is printed exactly where it needs to go. Oh, okay, so you’re printing the you’re running the already printed letterhead through your offset printing the traditional printing acid and just putting the signature just putting the signature, and then, you know, this sincerely will go on top of that. And, of course, the name it may be a title underneath that will be done by the laser in the next function. Yeah, that would be done in the laser. And so that could be a really time consuming part of a job, because, you know, first of all you’re setting up the data, you’re setting up the different letters that air going into your mailing, and then you want those offset signatures on there so it’s going back to oppress and, you know, plates have to be made and that’s time consuming, it does look good. We’re trying more and more, and with the advances of color laser technology, these kinds of things are looking better and better every year, and with the next wave of color digital machinery that we’re going to be getting very soon in the next couple of months, we think we’ll have the answer to that as all being done. Through digital printing just for the next few months. Yeah, because of the new machinery that just happens to be coming out right now and because our machines are going off, police release our equipment for three years because the technology changes very quickly. And you’re suggesting to that the signature could be in a different color. Maybe should be in a different use. A blue signature where all the other short, i do mean blue signatures and i wasn’t clear on that. Yes, if you want to just print a black signature, certainly it will be done during the digital laser process. But we are talking about a blue signature and getting it to the exact blue of the pen that’s when this is called for and the technology in your mind is good enough that it looks pretty close to alive signature it looks very, very close to a live signature. I personally think that laser looks very, very close to a live signature, but the difference is if you lick your finger and rub it across the signature, and if it doesn’t bleed, then it was printed either with ink or toner laser. But if it bleeds it was a real pen. And only a few people would really test that. A few of your most particular investigative type sherlock holmes type donors. So if you’re if you’re just diving into the signature because it’s interesting the printing of the signature by itself, if you’re doing that than your letter needs to be perfect, because the location of the signature is critical, once the signatures there you’re the letter really can’t change, right? No, it is critical, and in anyone project i could have as many as twenty, twenty five different segments, different letters signed by different people, even in a ten thousand twenty thousand piece mailing or quite a bit smaller because people are let’s, say it’s a hospital let’s say it’s a college seeking donations, they’re going to have different people signing those letters. They’re goingto have different letters, so the signature is going to fall on the front. It could fall in the back, so the set up for that procedure could be a week to ten days before you even start laser ring the personalized letters there’s a huge amount of set up in these processes, and you have to account for that and scheduling any of this type of work. And this is where there’s great advantage, i think, for the small and midsize shop because they don’t. Have all the levels of coordination. They don’t have to get all the levels of approval, but they can still take advantage of this great technology. Oh, absolutely. On dh small mailings altum biggest concern of most people nowadays with direct mail, you’re not seeing small, special niche type letter shop mail houses going out of business. You’re saying big ones that we’re dealing with banks and insurance companies and credit cards. But what we do is important to all of our clients, whether they be larger, small, whether they have one hundred thousand members or whether they have a thousand members of five hundred members it’s the small mailings that mean too, most of them because the smaller lists are going to be the hyre level donors and the high level membership levels. My guest is tim kenan, and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. They didn’t didn’t dick dick tooting, getting dink, dink, dink dink. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, waiting to get into thinking. E-giving cubine. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in this is tony martignetti, aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcast. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set. Two one, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Geever you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll i’m tony martignetti and we’re talking to tim cannon, president of mcvicar and higginbotham printing and direct mail shop. Tim let’s talk a little about the working relationship. What are some ideas that small and midsize non-profits should should implement? Tio have the best relationship with their with their printer and direct mail shop? Well, the first thing teo, think about everybody is concerned about price, but you have to think about who you’re going to be dealing with this well, especially since you’re doing smaller volume mail and we do, you know, one hundred pieces, two hundred pieces, you need somebody who understands how to effectively execute mailings like that. So it’s really important that you pick a vendor you can work with and it’s very good, very good ideas to go visit them, you need to see them see what they’re doing, see who they’re working for, see what they’re doing for those folks so you can get an idea. Hey, if they can do this, they can do it for me, so a visit should be welcome without it. We encourage all our clients all the time to come out and visit our shop because they get a wealth of information about how to do things better they also see things that we’re doing that we’re not doing for them. They’re just focused on their needs, but there’s a lot of other ideas out there and ah lot of these other organisations, whether they be in the arts, healthcare or performing arts or museums there, they’re doing things that you don’t know about great idea go out to the shop and see what the other clients are doing, and it will give you many ideas, big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. And as you said, a couple of times that that small organization that has just a few hundred donors to mail to those every one of them is precious, sure and very often people think, okay, this is so small, maybe i should do it in house, you know, at the organization a lot of times, though, it’s not a bad idea to send it out to a male house letter shop vendor because they may be able to do it more efficiently. Time and time again will do a large segment of a mailing on dh suddenly a piece comes back in. The mail too. The person who was in charge of the mailing or some seed they had within the organization a seed is a piece that comes back to somebody in your organization so you can make sure that it’s correct, but very often a seed will come back. And it just happens to be that that was the portion that they did in house, and they didn’t pay close enough attention, teo and it’s. Kind of natural. It’s. Easy to give a vendor clear instructions on what you want done. And then you decide. Okay, but we’re going to do this smaller portion in house here and often that’s where the mistakes were made. And what about the right employee to assign to be the liaison with the printer in the mail shop? Well, it’s, very important to have great communication in all of business. But anything can go wrong in a mill project. Starting with the list. The number of lists, how clean it is. How clean. Meaning what? Well, you know, we can very often people are bartering are exchanging lists from different organization on a small organization. I need more names to mail to whether i’m doing fund-raising or to build up attendance of my gala affair, you’ve got to make sure those lists our male oppcoll ago, we sent everything through the, which is the natural national change of address process or the post office to do an update on them to see if they moved, you know, there’s ah, high percentage over fifteen percent of our population moves every year, so you’ve got a lot of different address changes, so you want to make sure your lists are very clean? And i think a lot of times, these, uh, the liaison work falls to, ah, newer employees or a lower level employees. Well, the good thing about small organizations is that you’re very often dealing with a high up decision maker. It could be the executive director, and that helps right helps enough a lot because they know what they want to do and even more so they’re very willing to listen to you. They want to hear your ideas, the larger the organization, the more likely we’re going to be dealing with, you know, somebody who’s kind of new to that organization, and maybe a lot of the others don’t wanna handle the letter shop work and that’ll fall on their shoulders often they are confused at the whole big picture, and they don’t want to hear about all the little tips. They just want you to get this in the mail, get it done right? So a tte that point, they’re just saying, i just need to do what my boss it wants me to do and the way they described that that i should do it. Yeah, they’re kind of coming from an angle where they’re scared of making a mistake and talking to them and trying to reassure them and trying to get all the information straight between you and them is very important. So it’s a little bit it’s a little bit easier actually dealing with small organizations because you have somebody that’s very invested in that organization and who has a lot of experience that understands things you’re telling them it sounds like it the very least you should start the relationship with the printer male house with with us more senior person and then maybe delegate to someone to actually get the work done. Absolutely something that i see a lot with our clients is someone is thinking that while they’re on vacation, the printing can get done. Sure, and what happens then, i find is there isn’t anybody around to answer questions that the printer needs to have answered in order to do the work? It happens all the time, especially coming up to the end of summer and going into the holiday season. People have been thinking and planning a job, but they come to us a lot of times on the friday before they’re going on vacation. Here it is, and they’re going to a lot of questions you need to have answered, and they could be coming back from vacation a week later without us able to do a thing, and that can really hurt their schedule that that hamstrings you. My guest has been tim kenan, president of mcvicar and higginbotham, the printing and direct mail company located in brooklyn, new york. Tim, if people wouldn’t like to reach you, how could they do that? Well, we’re actually in long island city now. We were in brooklyn for fifty years in the last two, we’ve moved over to long island city, and you can find us on the web at www emcee the h dot com, or call seven one eight nine three seven two nine four. Xero. I’m very glad that tim’s work brought him to the studio today, andi, i would like to thank him very much for coming. Thank you so much to thank you so much. Tony was my pleasure, my pleasure as well, and other people to thank our creative producer, claire meyerhoff, line producer sam liebowitz and our social media is by regina walton. Speaking of social media, we have a facebook page. When you go to facebook, look for tony martignetti non-profit radio, just search for it, it’ll pop up, head over to the fan page and please like us. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We’re coming to you on talking alternative broadcasting at www dot talking alternative dot com every friday, one p, m eastern. Join us next week, thanks very much. Durney hyre good ending things. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, waiting to get a drink. Thank you. You could. I really need to take better care of myself if only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up dahna is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two, eight sixty five nine to nine xero, or visit w w w died mind over matter. N y c dot com oh, this is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo i will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 and aqueduct racetrack in queens contending into three p m we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on jobs. Try to jeez and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelve at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair from 10 a m to three p m for more information, please call pete in my district offices seven one eight seven three eight one one one one. Hm? Are you stuck in your business or career? Trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall. This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root. Cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Napor

Nonprofit Radio for September 3, 2010: Talking About Your People

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

You can subscribe on iTunes and listen anytime, anyplace on the device of your choice.

Tony’s Guest:

Karen Bradunas, Human Resources consultant.

Talking about your people.

They are your most important asset: attracting, hiring, retaining, motivating, managing and removing.

Here is the link to the podcast: 008: People: Your Most Precious Asset

This Friday from 1-2pm this week and every week!

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

When and where: Talking Alternative Radio, Fridays, 1-2PM Eastern

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Metoo this’s tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m your aptly named host tony martignetti welcome to the show. Last week, we talked about honesty about your organization’s mistakes and failures we had new york times, stephanie strong with us in the studio, and we also talked about keeping your non-profit and you’re bored, safe and out of trouble. Remember, that was with ken cerini and jean takagi no threatening letters from the attorney general in your state or from the irs that was last week. This week were focused on your people techniques to attract and retain your most precious resource, which is the people who work for you, the people who help you to help those who your organization is supporting and improving the lives of your people. Your most critical resource, your non-profits future depends on having the best people working for you. My guest this week is karen bradunas, human resources consultant. Karen will join us after the break and about midway through i’ll have some thoughts about charitable gift annuities. I want you to be careful about those they could be an outstanding gift for your non-profit but there are some things to be aware of, and i’ll talk about those around the middle of the show. Joining me after this break, we’ll be karen bradunas will be back in ninety seconds. You can wait that long. Please stay with us. You didn’t think that shooting getting thinking, you’re listening to the talking alternate network, get in. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in i’m tony martignetti, the aptly named host of the tony martignetti show. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. You’re non-profit is ignored because you’re smaller medium size, but you still need expertise and help with technology fund-raising compliance, finance and accounting will look at all of these areas on the tony martignetti show. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on talking alternative dot com fridays. One, too hyre talking. Welcome back, i’m tony martignetti i’m joined now by karen bradunas karen is a human resource is consultant, and her stated guiding philosophy is to bring large company expertise and best practices to smaller organizations. That sounds a lot like big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. So where? Simpatico on that? Prior to consulting, karen held officer positions at travelers insurance and deutsche bank, so she brings big for-profit experience to non-profits karen has an impressive acronym after her name one i don’t see too often s p h r spohr is senior professional in human resource is, and i’m very glad that karen’s practice brings her to the studio today. Karen, welcome. Hi, tony, how are you? I’m well, thanks very much for coming. A few weeks ago, i blogged on something that i called the elusive perfect fit employee. I was concerned about anecdotes that i hear from people who are in the job search and applying for jobs and are told that they’re very well qualified, but they’re told we’re going to hold out for the perfect fit. We’re looking for that perfect fit, employees, and you commented on my block and why don’t we start there. What do you think about that illusive perfect fit? Employees? This is a hot topic right now. Among a lot of hr professionals. Our concerns are what is a perfect employee in that term in general, is it what fits you organization today? Is it what fits your organization in five years? Do you even know where you’ll be in five years? Is a perfect employee, someone who’s flexible. So the word perfect and job specs right now, it’s a conundrum because when we have conversations with hiring managers, oftentimes they don’t know and oftentimes a job description is being written based on a failure of a predecessor or an employee who leaves and say, i like this person, but i really want to add this other piece to the job. So i have concerned that it’s not really strategic when people say i want a perfect employee. So i think this is challenging right now. A number of hr people are sort of scratching their heads. I’ve talked to a number of recruiters across sectors and all they’re saying, well, we’re not really sure. So what they’re doing is they’re translating what they hear from the employee into words they understand, which may or may not be the right fit. I use an example, a new organization that wants a cfo that does web design, which everyone so scratches your head. Maybe the client really means they need a cfo who understands the technology and presence of web two point. Oh, that’s a lot different than a cfo that does web design, and i think that that’s one of the challenges right now. You mentioned the job description a couple of times, and you’ve alluded to it sounds like that’s critical to the to the to the first part of the hiring process, which is identifying your needs basically right, the job description. Besides being necessary as a compliance issue, which is a big deal, and employers, i really need to look at it because this is going to be a heavily regulated and looked at field on area. Sorry of h r it is a guide map for anyone doing a search of a way of weeding out resumes. On average, a recruiter spends less than a minute on a resume that’s. Why job seekers are always worried about buzz words and trying to read. Job descriptions in job postings, which are two different things, a job posting summarizes what you’re looking for a job description, talks about usually summarizes a job, talks about specifics of the job and also skills needed and minimum requirements to do the job. And maybe we’ll get to the job posting shortly. That job description is that supposed to be just an internal document? Or is that also shared often or should it be shared? I mean, let’s talk best practices? What that be shared with potential potential employees? There are a few schools of thought on this from a risk reduction standpoint. Usually i show two prospective employees this is the job description. Are you able to do this job? Do you need any kind of accommodation to do this job? It’s helpful for them to see it? I think every employees should see their job description on the part as part of the hiring process. Yeah, i don’t see a problem with that because if if you’re looking for someone and you’re investing employees, invest a lot of time in recruiting there’s a huge amount of time, and if you really want the best person and you’ve taken all this time to write a job description. What? Why not share it? Why not talk about why not have the the prospective employees say i haven’t done this, but i’ve done this this and this that really would help your organization and have a chance to really talk to what your needs are and that’s going to be after the employees get screen or the potential employee gets screened because we’ve right, we’ve looked at the resume now where we have just a few people coming in, and at that stage, your recommendation is share. The job description was at that screening process. Yeah, that’s challenging, yeah, everyone i’ve talked to tio it’s frustrating right now in this market for every job posting out there, you get hundreds of resumes and i’m talking about hundreds in a week or in a few days, and so often times people are screening based on things like, okay, which school did they goto? I’m looking for this specific buzz where, because the client said it four times in our conversation, i i sometimes get asked by my clients to do searches, even though i don’t sell myself as a recruiter and i actually research candidates through linked in and other tools, and invite them to apply because i’m looking for specialized behaviours, projects, successes and that way i don’t have to weed through all the people that really are not appropriate. And that’s, pretty standard practice to for employers is, too go beyond the resume and cover letter writing to do some research online. It isn’t a standard, as one might hope. Okay, well, maybe. Well, why don’t we pick that up after this break? I’m tony martignetti tony martignetti non-profit radio, and my guest is karen bradunas human resource is consultant will be back after this break. Stay with us. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness can help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two, eight sixty five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w died mind over matter. N y c dot com is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set two one two nine six, four, three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom, too. One, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Dahna hyre durney. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Durney welcome back on tony martignetti i’m joined by karen bradunas human resource is consultant karen. Before the break, we were talking about online research, researching candidates beyond their cover letter and resume. You think it’s not as widespread as it should be, i think it’s a generational split, i think generation x and y really do use web to point l as tools off attracting candidates as well as researching the backgrounds of candidates. I think baby boomers are a little reluctant to do so. I they’re at their peril. You think you think think they limit who they can their pool of candidates? I also think the approach to social media and privacy is very different for a baby boomer versus generation x and y and this is a hot issue legally let’s talk about it, what’s what’s up there. Well, i am pretty consistently talking to clients about what shared openly on the web and the implications to the organization on, and i find that for for most baby boomers there, they tend to be more conservative and again, i’m really generalizing and generation x and why the common is so what geever and it’s a quagmire and it’s yet to really be resolved, i have some employment attorneys that air saying, you know, we really need to be careful how we craft this because it’s not going away it’s goingto only grow in the future, but in terms of a tool and a viable tool to reach audiences. But do you really want to know how some of your employees spend their free time and what some of their alternative interests are? If it’s not aligned with the organization’s mission, you mentioned something earlier that i want to follow up on, and that was that you will occasionally invite candidates. You will go beyond the submissions that you get, i oftentimes we’ll start a search by not posting it. I will actually go on to and i use linked in a lot because i find that that to be a pretty professional tool that i can find out a lot about an applicant, i will go on lengthen, do some searches and ask people to join my network or tom about thie position, and then they can apply. And do you see others doing that you’re you’re doing that as a consultant. Do you see clients doing? That, on their own. Not again. I have smaller clients, so that’s our audience and one of the challenges they face is they have one person who wears five or six hats trying to recruit, you know, handle all of the hr handled a number of things. So when they have an immediate need for someone, they may not be having the time to do the research, andi, oftentimes they’ll ask me to help with that. I think they would benefit from it. I think that a number of people maybe can use some guidelines of of some shortcuts of how to do that that i’ve learned the hard way, but oftentimes i see the actual business line. Is we using corporate world or the individual hiring manager saying i found someone, i want you to meet them and let them through hr and which is ok, but i think hr lacks the supporting nature that they probably should have by by bringing in the candidates to the hiring manager. I’m tony martignetti my guest is karen bradunas human resource is consultant. Karen, would you share maybe one of those wanted to those shortcuts that you just mentioned? Sure, i i do sorts unlinked. In and i do google strings. There is an incredible recruiter whose classes are often free on the web. His name is shelly stuck role and i’m giving him a free plug. Can you spell his last name from s t e c k e r e l okay, andi, i think the organization he’s with his are baida r b i t a they also published things that help on he’s, viewed in the hr community as an incredible resource. He gives seminars on sure webinars and i think actually has done some sherm conferences. Sherm is the site of three mean society for human resource is management. It is lobbying bodies also. Ah, great resource for anyone who is has the hr function. They will do research for you if you need it. So it’s it’s a good organization you belong to. But shelly has some great ways of doing strings searches and using the internet for getting passive candidates as well as active candidates for a lot of not-for-profits it doesn’t make sense economically to join all the job boards it’s expensive to have their resume databases it’s also time consuming to develop your own resume database. Often for not-for-profits air looking for very specialized knowledge that may or may not be in the typical databases. So, um, doing searches and even business search is on specific documents. Published articles are great ways to get candidates excellent ideas. Thank you, let’s. Sort of follow the hiring chronology. Let’s, talk a little bit about interviewing, okay? Ah, i’ll just open it broadly. What? What ideas do you have? Based on what you’re seeing people doing about interviewing? I’m seeing more of a trend in this market of doing phone screenings first before in person interviews. I this was a number of months ago. The hiring turnaround has become longer. Typically for a secretary. You could turn that wreck around in about a week. Recruiting now, it’s about a month and this phone screening is at a practice you like, um, iphone screen. But again, i oftentimes will interview applicants in, like pennsylvania and it’s, just cheaper to do that. I do an hour phone interview. I don’t know anyone else. I approach recruiting, sort of like a retained in contingency approach, so i will have an hour’s worth of questions to ask someone and i will talk about how to handle this situation what? You know, what do you most proud of? Give me examples. So i’m doing a behavioral interview as well as going through the resume and getting, you know, data. So for small and midsize organization, they can really spend save a lot of time, i think, by doing the phone screening interview, even if it is a local candidate close. Yeah, i think so. And you don’t have to worry about scheduling and people traveling in and all of that, i do think it’s really critical what you ask in an interview, i’m really surprised when i go through files of of of interviews, it took place some of the questions that get asked because i think that the organization can really vet candidates much better had they asked a few more questions in the interview process, so okay, let’s, move past the phone screening interview, which you highly recommend to the live face-to-face what tips do you have there? Well, when in a live interview i’m looking for, you know, do they make eye contact? How do they answer my questions? Is there anything that looks to be that they’re uncomfortable with? And then i want to probe that further, so i’m doing a lot of body language at that point, i want to see how they interact with other people. I have done both group interviews and individual interviews. I’ve worked a lot with technical organizations, and although i’m not a night person, i’ve been fairly accurate a calling problems with employees out in the interview like you have a problem with this one he’s going to be late all the time, and you never problem with this one, they’re going to want to really be pushed in their career if you’re not prepared to do that, don’t hyre and have you been vindicated means there have been hires and then within six months or so, yes, you were, but i warned them and again, i think the challenge for me is an h r professional when i see this and i and i’ve learned over time to say i want to go on record as saying this, i then have to let go because it is the hiring managers role to take what they want as an employee because it’s their business, the ultimate decision is altum absolutely the interview what? About the dreaded group interview that from from the employees or from the interviewees perspective is the dreaded why might there be a need for for, ah, panel interview? Or is that a bad practice? I don’t think it’s a bad practice, i think it’s a bad practice if you’re having someone do in, you know, projects on their own and not going to be in a panel environment after hyre them, i think you want to replicate the environment that the person is going to be working in, and if you want to test how they interact with different work styles, i know some some employers say, you know, this person can get a little wild in an interview, so i’m going to be there to temper their questions or, you know, to make sure they’re okay with a candidate, but i think that you want to replicate his best, you can the environment to coming into it’s like training. People talk a lot about training classes and how they did really well in the training class, but they couldn’t bring it back to the workplace we’ll, of course, because the training class with this was a sterile environment. That there were rules there, the rules may be different in the work environment, but and it’s okay, toe evaluate the employee, how they might perform, even though you know that it’s already a pressure environment there feeling pressure because the interview situation so, yeah, i think that that’s really critical if you have someone that’s going to be giving proposals to senior senior people in donors, if you don’t test how they do well under pressure, i think you’re doing your organization into service and you may lose dollars dahna dollars because of that. So there’s an implicit value to doing this aside from evaluating the substance of their of their answers in their conversation that you’re seeing how they perform under pressure in front of a panel of things two or three people or maybe more people, right? Because that’s going to be part of their job responsibilities let’s get past the interview, you’ve made the hyre and i know there’s there’s a lot of law around the hiring, but i’m goingto i’m goingto skip that and i’d really like to spend a little time on training. You’ve got a brand new employee, it’s let’s say, it’s day. One what do we do in that first day? And maybe the first couple of weeks, i think most employers i talked to struggle with some better than others. How to onboard that’s, thie hr speak for onboarding employees, we have george in jail here onboard defined onboarding the employees, i’m bored not like waterboarding the important okay, but it can feel like that. But yes, lorts onboarding onboarding is really bringing an employee in and making them part of the culture so it can be all things from the paperwork to meeting other employees to feeling they know where they to go, to get what they need to get the job done to understanding what their role is in the organization. It’s really assimilation on, and i think that organisations typically could afford to spend a lot more time developing an orientation on boarding process. And i imagine there’s a lot of documentation that goes with this should be a written documents, right? What kinds of documentations, but even beyond that? Because you’re giving an employee of the legal requirement documents, you know, that setting up for payroll, giving an employee manual, all of that stuff, but there’s also you know, here’s, my team, this is what we dio let’s talk to this other team because we interact with him, let’s, meet with them let’s, you know, figure out how things work within the organization that people process it’s really difficult for organizations to get meaning time for new employees because everybody’s worried about getting there, job done and you hire people you don’t typically hyre five people on the same day. So it’s a really scheduling issue as well, but it is time well spent. Absolutely. It should be a sounds like it should be a priority that supervisors say this is important onboarding welcoming our new employee, you need to find the time for it. What? What if? What if we don’t? What are the implications of putting somebody in day one saying there’s, the there’s, the ladies room, here’s, your phone and computer let’s hit the ground running? Well, this this is typical of startups and i’ve done a lot of work with started i think you run the risk of a culture developing based on the the diversity of the group. If you have a set culture you want to maintain, which is our organization. Does this we value our people? This is what we respect. This is what we promote. This is what we reward. Then you have the basis for an orientation program. If you can’t articulate that, you’re gonna have trouble recruiting retaining a motivating. And i think that those air really but it’s, not the job description that gets you good people, it’s you knowing what your organization is and what you need for foreign employees based on what you don’t want for unemployed base and with a with a proper orientation, then it sounds like you’re point is everybody starts from the same base and you’re not subject to, as you said, the diversity of your employee pool. But everybody starts with same face of knowledge, base of knowledge and understanding of the organisation. It creates a transparency because you’re giving the same message to everyone. Let’s say that there’s one person in the organization that has the history, the organization if they happen to meet you and tell you that you now have insider knowledge that i might not have even though i started before you there is going that’s going to create attention there that doesn’t need to. Be there simply because i wasn’t there. It didn’t speak to this individual you mentioned motivating we have just a couple of minutes before the break. Let’s move to the next step. I think of sort of motivating and retaining your valued employees what? Just in the minute and half we have left before the break and give us little tease of ideas. Sure, i think a lot of people employees looked too benefits in salary to motivate, and i think that there are some other things that they should be looking at, especially in this marketplace name just a couple. Well, there’s um, some low cost, no cost rewards of training managers better that would help retain and motivate staff better management training. Absolutely people will feel that there they belong. They belong there. Value is recognized absolutely all the all the important things that go into teo hiring decision that you don’t want to lose a good value that you’ve hired by not motivating and retaining. Absolutely. And after this break, we’re going to talk more about motivating and retaining. I’m tony martignetti tony martignetti non-profit radio my guest is karen bradunas and she’ll be with us, please. Stay with us after this break. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. I’m tony martignetti, the aptly named host of the tony martignetti show. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. You’re non-profit is ignored because you’re smaller medium size. But you still need expertise and help with technology fund-raising compliance, finance and accounting will look at all of these areas on the tony martignetti show. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on talking alternative dot com fridays one, too. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back on tony martignetti before we continue our conversation with karen, i’d like teo talk a little bit about charitable gift annuities. This is sort of come to my onto my radar screen because some recent phone calls that i’ve gotten organizations interested in a charitable gift annuity program. Now this is a type of, ah planned gift where the donor who creates one earns income for life from their charitable gift annuity and at their death. What remains in the gift is a gift of cash to your organization in the midst of our recession, there are more and more donors interested in lifetime income, and this income, by the way, is fixed, guaranteed by all the assets of your organization, not just by what’s in their individual gift, but by all the assets of your organization. So in the midst of a recession, that’s appealing to a good number of donors and there are calls that i’ve been getting about starting a charitable gift annuity program, there are some things you should be aware of. Um, if you’re in new york state, if you’re a new york state charity, for instance, there is a hefty amount of money that you have to put into ah mandatory reserve fund it’s one hundred thousand dollars that reserve fund is required by the new york state insurance of department of new york state department of insurance. That department regulates charitable gift annuity programs in the state of new york and it’s, not too uncommon across the states. So really, regardless of where your non-profit is, there’s a lot of regulation, i say in seminars, obey pretty thick web of regulation around charitable gift annuities. You need to know what the requirements are in your state before you can inaugurate a charitable gift annuity program. It’s not like a lot of other planned gift that you can just start offering like charitable bequests. We’d like to have your bequest in in your will for our organization that you could do any time. Charitable gift annuities, very heavily regulated, and in a lot of states, you need to have prior approval, usually by an insurance department before you start offering these gif ts, you also want your board to be well acquainted with the potential of charitable gift annuities because there is a great long term potential, but also the potential risk. I mentioned that the payments are backed by all the assets of your organisation. That means that if the reserve fund where the gift money’s go should be badly managed or depleted, your organization is really still on the hook to make the annuity payments for your donor’s lifetime. And you have multiple donors in your gift annuity program. That’s payments for many donors lifetimes it’s a contract so you’re bored needs to understand that it’s going to be at risk if there should be mismanagement of the monies that are given into a charitable gift annuity program. The organization’s money is going to be potentially at risk to make these life time payments. That said, charitable gift annuities can be a really valuable gift not on ly for the money that they bring in the long term, but also the relationships that they build for your organization. You’ve got donors now if they enter your gift annuity program to make this type of a gift, who are counting on you most likely to support their and supplement their retirement there, other income during retirement and for the rest of their life that’s a pretty serious responsibility, but it brings the donor so close to your organization because now they’re counting on you for their for their income are part of their income for the rest of their life. That’s a serious obligation that you’ve taken on, and a serious commitment that the donor has made to you. They you know, they love you a lot. They trust you a lot if they’re going to make that kind of a commitment to you. And now you’ve got someone that close to you and you can perhaps encourage them to make gift in other ways. You certainly want to keep inviting them to events and keep them close to your organisation. But you’ve got really a friend for life if this all goes well, so there are advantages to charitable gift annuities, long term financial advantages, relationship building, financial relationship, building advantages. But there are also risks and obligations that you’re bored and your ceo need to be acquainted with before you delve into a charitable gift annuity program. My guest is karen bradunas human resources consultant. Karen what do we give people an idea? How first? How can they reach you if they’d like toe talk to you? How can people get in contact with you. Sure, i have a website, which is km bradunas dot com. Which people can can go to and send me an email? I also can be reached by phone to one, two, three, oh, four, nine, one, four, six and typically get back to people within forty eight hours. Very thoughtful of you to offer your telephone number. Thank you and karen’s. Last name is spelled b r, a, d, u and a s karen before the break, and before i waxed on about charitable gift annuities, we’re talking about motivating employees to help retain them. What what other ideas do you have? I’d like to step back a little bit and talk about exit interviews. We’re going to go from the end of why employees leave yeah, okay, because there are lessons to learn, i guess lessons to learn and we’ll talk about i talk a lot ah lot about this with clients because i think that this is a great tool that employers are missing out on it’s free and you get valuable data. Typically, i’ve given a lot of exit interviews in my twenty plus years in hr of usually, the first thing an employee will say is i’m getting better money and then i’ll talk fifteen minutes, twenty minutes and invariably by a half a knauer i hear that they never had a review, they never had a review on time their manager never talked to them. Those are all low no cost things an employee may leave because of money, but five or ten percent difference in pay if they’re able to meet expenses, doesn’t typically have someone looking elsewhere unless they’re unhappy where they are. He’s employees spend a lot of time recruiting and onboarding people it’s sad when they lose someone simply because of manager doesn’t take time to check in with an employee, how they’re doing, and this goes back to the management training that you mentioned before the break. How can we help managers be better? It’s, it’s, really top down, start with the ceo. I talk a lot to ceos, and i hear the comment well, i don’t really like managing, or i don’t like, really doing reviews, and i talk about these air ceos saying, i don’t like managing. Typically, they they, like a lot of ceo, is like to be strategic, but they need teo. Give some guidance, and if they can’t, give guidance to at least hyre someone where staff can go to to get that. I talk a lot about critical incident files with people because it’s a little daunting teo to review a year in one of the challenges when you only do yearly reviews is you remember the last three months, so what’s a critical incident file critical incident file is let’s say we could build a tv show around, i think there’s an c s critical cf cf show, for instance, a manager comes to you and says your employees did a great job on this project. You know, i just want to let you know it really went off. Well, you write that down positive, it’s positive, you save it in a file an employee keeps coming in late, you’re getting emails or you’re keeping those two that that was in this file and you’re talking to the employees as this happens, by the way, so and so gave you a compliment. It takes less than a minute to do that and the motivation for an employee to get that instant feedback buys you an awful lot, so there should be a critical incident file for every employee, right and and that’s used. When you do you review, you don’t have to think about what happened this past year, you open the file and it’s there, and we’ll get more than just the last three months writing a review. What else? Management, you know, may maybe mid level managers training them. Two motivate employees. What else can we do? I’d like to differentiate between supervising and managing because there are people that view them as the same. Managing really requires someone to understand communication styles. Other staff. It helped it’s important for them to understand the interests of their staff in what motivates them. Some people are motivated by money. Some people are motivated by your organization’s mission. Some people are motivated by public recognition. You know, i had an organization that they really were into. Cakes for employees, teo acknowledge birthdays and that with a home baked cakes or were they store bought? Okay, well, so all right, you know, but i know a number of organization that’s really important for you. And for me, that was like, well, what do you mean? But that was part of their culture. And although there’s indications that they would benefit from allowing staff to run with projects of their own choosing, they have a creative staff, and if you have a creative staff, why not create a budget that says we’re going to hold a contest? You’re going to come up with your pet project and let’s, hold a contest and let somebody run with a project. So there’s there’s some creative ways of doing things, and when you start to look at how you’re spending money in recognition and it doesn’t really serve the demographics of your organization, i think you can come up with low cost, no cost rewards, creative ways of managing employees without spending a lot of money? Absolutely. How about the ah, the very important performance review you’ve given us a great idea had a coalesce all the activities for the year through the critical incident file. What else about performance reviews? Are you learning in exit interviews that that these reviews are falling short two areas one they’re not given and to their surprises, performance reviews should not be a surprise they should summarize the year that means if you have an employee that’s having difficulty getting to work on time or performing up to standards, you need to be meaning with them at helping them. Succeed because every time that happens, there’s an entry that goes into the critical incident five and there’s a conversation also, well, one of the challenges for those who don’t keep critical incident files and have conversations is the review becomes a surprise. So this is the first time the employees hears about it a lot. A number of organizations also have a napro tch to performance management, which is, you know, the first time i’ll tell you about it. The second time i’ll write you up in the third time, it will be a final warning, and they often don’t talk about performance improvement. That sounds pretty ominous. Sounds like that sounds like a one way one way track out of the out of the organization. So as soon as your manager comes to talk to you think, ok, this is one of three i’m going to get in the last one’s gonna be i’m out of here. It really needs to be where the manager owns the apart in the process of an employee success. Oftentimes i have conversations with managers that, you know, managing an employee doesn’t mean you just get more money and you get to tell someone what to dio you’re responsible for their success and failure to you share in that and so it it revolves around hey, this is what i need to change and it’s challenging sometimes to train managers at what specifics behaviors they want to see changed because it’s not a belief system, you have control over its behaviors, you know, the time frame for that change and what tools and training maybe needed to have that change occur. And is that something that an employee’s should sign a document that that they’ve been sort of counseled in improvement? Yes, they actually get a copy of this document and they’re actually with this document hr is involved in monitoring that meetings are happening regularly. Yeah, it’s it’s a working document and this probably has legal implications, too, if if the if the performance doesn’t improve, which we’re going to talk about after the break but this is all sort of building that file. Yes. Also the non the not doing of things also has a legal compliance, which we should talk about the organization not not doing things that it ought to be doing. Absolutely okay in the performance review. Is this one of those instances where there need to be more than one person giving the review? Well? Well, actually, we want to use your phrase, which was performance improvement when these performance improvement meetings should there does. There need to be more than one person counseling the employees, typically, performance improvement plans. It’s at the beginning stages of hey, this isn’t really working out. We’ve talked a little bit about it, let’s, figure out a way to make we need a road map. If someone’s trained in hr and delivering this kind of thing, no, if they’re not, then i highly recommend that someone a professional be there. Oh, not just that there be two people, but that one being hr professional, we’re gonna take a break on. My guest is karen bradunas. She’ll certainly join us after the break. I hope you will, too, tony martignetti non-profit radio. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oh! I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two, eight sixty five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w died mind over matter in y si dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call us ed to one, two, nine, six, four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one, two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Print. Talking dot com. No. My guest is karen bradunas and we’re talking about your most important resource, your people. Karen. Before the break, we alluded to the legal implications of some of the performance review and performance improvement let’s go into that little further what what are some of these implications? Well, one of the challenges i find for a lot of employers is they don’t want to, or i have difficulty addressing concerns with an employee, and it gets it progresses over time to a point where they say this employee really isn’t fit for the organization anymore, and so to avoid having a difficult conversation, they they don’t do any reviews, they don’t have any any documented conversations, and there are really specific things you need to document in formats to document, and i really encourage anyone who is going through this process to really talk to a professional about it. Oftentimes managers want to handle it on their own. They really should work with someone in hr about what the wording is on a document what’s being spoken about in the conversation on you want to maintain respect for the employees, et cetera and and often times it’s very emotional, so the challenge is no review has given no conversations or documented, and then you want to terminate the employees or even better, the first year the employee was there, you gave them an excellent review and then no review since and now you want to terminate the employees? Yeah, i have had a number of conversations with employees about this and how to manage this, and it really is it’s stressful for them because they end up spending more time in the end of trying to transition and employees out. Had they done reviews regulating had conversations regularly, the process would have either turned around or because we want to be talking about employees improvement. Things could have gotten much better, absolutely, and and it’s unfair to the organization and to the employees and and i can’t stress enough how much this leaks out into the staff and affects all staff motivation because if they see an underperforming employees or disgruntled employees and nothing being done about it, it impacts your entire organization and wouldn’t the fellow employees rather see and a fellow employee improve, then be terminated? Absolutely talk about motivating, right, right, and they start inferring from your behavior toward that employee, how you’re going to treat them, and this is a huge issue that employers need to be aware of. Well, if you didn’t do this for jane, what do you going to do to me? How you going to tell me i’m not doing my job? Well, so it creates this fear that impacts, you know, motivation and productivity in an organization. So yeah, and it becomes really management by fear, even though the manager or the ceo may not he or she may not very well be a tyrant at all, but it’s still creating a culture of fear in the organization undercurrent. And then, you know, i i like to look for things like, well, what’s, absenteeism and what’s you know what, what people are out when and oftentimes in organizations that don’t address issues, often times you’ll see when a critical incident is happening someone’s leaving in and you don’t have a replacement and they need to have their were covered or there’s a project due. People are on vacation that are responsible for that, and i’m like, well, what’s going on here so there’s a lack of ownership and i don’t think it’s, because someone doesn’t want to own it, it’s, that they may be afraid of the failure in the implications of that all sort of leading back to good management practices, right? Absolutely and delivering i think an employee will respect you if you deliver the truth, even the hard truth, even the hard truth, because it’s much easier to hear it and talk about what said than to try and figure out what you’re thinking and the implications for not having these hard discussions. As we’ve said, you’re right, it’s huge, it’s, huge dahna then if you’re not talking to an employee, is it because i’m an older worker? Is it because i’m my race is different than most people in this organization? Is it because i know this person and you don’t like that person? All of this may or may not be true, but it’s unnecessary worry if you’re just having the straight conversation of this is the behavior that i need from you or this isn’t working out let’s figure it out what’s the source of some of the laws that we’ve been alluding to around around hr, we’re not the people unnecessarily going to read. The code, but we talk about hr laws. Where are these? Where do we find them? Well, for benefits, there’s, a risa department of labor has a number of laws. Jorgen jail, employment, retirement income, security act, or, for some of those in benefits. Is everything rotten invented since adam insider tips. Now you have insider hr tips. You would not have heard that it’s been around since nineteen seventy four, but it governs. A lot of it created the pbgc pension benefit guaranty corp. It creates a lot of the structure around how qualified plans are handled. There’s department of labor, there’s federal law there’s different laws depending on the size of your organization. What about state laws to state laws? Absolutely. So, really the hr professional needs to know federal law and state law, state law governing the organism where the organization is incorporated, i guess you know and located. So for instance, if you’re incorporated in new york, but you have a california office, you still have to follow california law. Yeah, which is it’s very important because you can be significant differences, karen, in just a minute or so that we have left, i’d like to end positively let’s talk about however you khun some up for us motivating, retaining, hiring, keeping the good people it’s because, that’s, what hr really wants to do? Right? I think it’s really an employer, knowing what they need on to the extent they can project for the future, what type of person they need in the skillsets to really recruit for that and be committed to making that happen through, you know, mentoring employees and then working out performance improvement plans when necessary and when the employees succeeds to remove them from the plan and have you know a great working organization i love focusing on the positive. The performance improvement planning performance improvement review. My guest has been karen bradunas karen’s, a human resources consultant. Her last name is bell b r a d, u and a s and you could reach her at karen at k m bradunas dot com that’s your email. I want to thank karen very much for joining us in the studio today. Karen. Thank you. Thank you. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We have a facebook page, facebook, dot com slash tony martignetti non-profit radio you could go over there and, like us, the creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff, line producer and owner of talking alternative broadcasting. Sam liebowitz. Our social media is by regina walton, doesn’t outstanding job on our facebook page and everywhere throughout the web. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio on talking alternative broadcasting talking alternative dot com. Join us next friday at one p m eastern e-giving ding, ding, ding ding you’re listening to the talking alternate network to get you thinking. E-giving cubine. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam lebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Schnoll hyre i really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two eight six five nine two nine. Zero or visit w w w died. Mind over matter. Y si dot com. I’m tony martignetti, the aptly named host of the tony martignetti show. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. You’re non-profit is ignored because you’re smaller medium size. But you still need expertise and help with technology fund-raising compliance, finance and accounting will look at all of these areas on the tony martignetti show. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on talking alternative dot com fridays one, too. Told you.

Failure IS an Option, So Let’s Talk

Dictionary Definition Of Failure On White Page

I love last week’s New York Times piece by Stephanie Strom, “Nonprofits Review Technology Failures.”  The essential message is that nonprofits will suffer failures, and the charity community is wise to learn from them.

I’ve written about the corporatization of nonprofits, which includes donor expectations of outcome measurements (just as shareholders expect of companies).  If your nonprofit wants to comply with donor demands, it is going to have to admit its grand failures alongside handsome successes.

Transparency and evaluation of outcomes means all outcomes, not just the good ones.  Insufficient programming, unforeseen consequences, underfunding, overstaffing, failed assumptions.  Let’s talk about them all, so everyone can learn to avoid repeats.

Your donor investors and those whose lives you improve deserve an honest outcomes dialogue.  They will benefit.  So will the larger nonprofit community.

The $64,000 Question is whether donors will take the news of unsatisfactory results well.

On Friday, August 27th, Stephanie Strom will be my guest on Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio and we’ll talk about her article and its implications.

Nonprofit Radio for August 27, 2010: Topic Trifecta: Nonprofits Facing Failures, Board Responsibilities, and Back-of-House Cleanup

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

You can subscribe on iTunes and listen anytime, anyplace on the device of your choice.

Tony’s Guests:

Stephanie Strom, NY Times reporter, discussing nonprofits facing failures.

Gene Takagi, Esq., Nonprofit legal consultant, discussing board responsibilities.

Ken Cerini, CPA, Cerini & Associates LLP, discussing back-of-house cleanup.

There will be a link to the podcast posted here after the show.

This Friday from 1-2pm this week and every week!


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

When and where: Talking Alternative Radio, Fridays, 1-2PM Eastern

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No hello and welcome, i’m tony martignetti, the aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent you’re small and midsize non-profit has a home here at tony martignetti non-profit radio last week we put the focus on you as an individual, and we had a lot of tips for tuning up your retirement planning, and the focus was on you. This week, we’re bringing the focus back to your non-profit my first guest after the break is going to be stephanie strong reporter for the new york times, and we’re going to be talking about failure fair that was a program sponsored by the world bank. Should you be talking about mistakes and failures that your organization makes it’s good enough for the world bank? I’ll talk to stephanie about her recent piece in the times and after stephanie, i’ll be joined by ken cerini, managing partner of cerini and associates. We’re going to talk about financial freedom for your non-profit and the potential loss of non-profits status for those small organizations, and after ken, i’ll be joined by jean takagi on attorney for non-profits gene’s going to share techniques to keep your board on board and keep your board out of trouble. All that this afternoon on tony martignetti non-profit radio. Stay with us for others. Break. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set two one, two nine six, four, three, five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dahna welcome back. I’m tony martignetti, the host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. I’m joined now by stephanie strong reporter for the new york times, she’s, the non-profit beat reporter for the times stephanie thank you very much for joining me in the studio. Thank you, tony, for inviting me. On august sixteenth, you had on article that was titled non-profits review technology failures and you were covering something called fail fair that was sponsored by the world bank. Sounds like it was fun. What thomas about fail fair well, feel there it’s actually a gn event that was cooked up by an organization called mobile active, which is a network of non-profits working to use technology to bring social benefits primarily internationally, but also locally it’s. How do we use thie gadgets that all of us have in our lives to make the lives of the poor and the needy better? And the world bank had been to the first of these events in new york, and it decided it would be fun to have one in washington in its offices. Because the world bank certainly has a lot of failures to share. It’s it’s got a new transparency policy. And it thought this would be a great way to advance that, and it was a very fun event because it’s done is a cocktail party type of event. So people are very relaxed presenters make a presentation of an example of a failure or several examples of a failure of technology to deliver the social goods that people western aid or non-profit agencies would have expected. And the idea is that by doing this in a very relaxed setting, people will accept the the story of the failure and maybe take away some lessons from it that they can then apply to their own work so that they don’t make the same mistakes. Were there other participants there besides the world bank? Yes, i would say about half of the presenters were world bank employees, and the other half came from a wide variety of different types of organizations. Some of them were consultants that had done research. Some of them were actual employees of the organizations. What was one of the failures that sticks out in your mind as memorable? Well, the one that that i discussed in the story at the top of the story was one. That really sort of crystallized it. Several years ago, the ah telephone company in guiana, i decided that as a gesture of corporate so what we would call corporate social philanthropy, whose social responsibility it would set up a telecom center in a very remote part of the amazon, and a group of very enterprising women who probably had never used a telephone figured out that they could sell these beautiful woven hammocks that they make over the internet. They developed quite an international market for these things and ended up collecting about seventeen thousand dollars. Well, this upset thie traditional power structure, which was male dominant and their husbands literally pulled the plug on the darn thing and said, no more selling over the internet. We don’t like this thing forget it, and that was the end of that. So in that case, it was the husband’s not donors to the program, but husbands that pulled the plug husbands, village elders, men on the lesson there was that there was an upset to the culture that right? The lesson was that if you’re going, you know, one of the presenters said it, you’re much more eloquently than i can. But that we often go in expecting technology. We technology works in our culture because our culture has adopted it, embraced it, developed it. But when we kind of just plop it down willy nilly in another culture and anticipate that it will work the same way that it does in ours, we often run into trouble admitting mistakes. Then you said the world bank has a policy of openness and transparency about their their failures, their mistakes. This is not something that we typically see in the larger non-profit community, right? Well, the world bank, i think back in april adopted it’s really a data transparency policy, but data, of course is going to show you mistakes. So this is all part of trying to be more open sharing. What we know what we’ve learned with everyone, so that people don’t make it again don’t make the same mistakes, learn something from it non-profits are reluctant to discuss failure, i have found because they don’t necessarily want to discourage donors. Donors may not look att a failure as a learning experience donors may look at it is ah, why would i give money to this organization that failed in this programme or in this way and that really is the sixty four thousand dollar question, i think how our donor is going to react to their money, having been devoted to something that didn’t have the outcomes we want. Well, i think most donors prefer, of course, that there money go towards things that bring benefit, but i also think that there are, at least among sophisticated donors, donors who understand that sometimes things don’t work out many of the wealthiest donors today. Our guys who became wealthy because of venture capital and in venture capital, of course, for every huge success, like ebay, they’re a ten or twenty failures, and they’re accustomed to evaluating those failures. So our hope is that that will translate to they’re giving to non-profits that’s, right? That’s the community’s hope stephanie strahm’s article on august sixteenth was online non-profits review technology failures. You can follow stephanie on twitter’s. Her idea berries at s s strahm. I follow her, she follows me. Thank you for that. And i’m very grateful that her coverage brought us. Brought her to the studio today. Thank you very much. Definite. Thank you, tony. We’ll be back after this. Break with ken cerini and we’ll be talking about keeping your non-profit out of trouble. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio getting ending. Duitz e-giving ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network waiting to get in. Cubine hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 and aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m, we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on jobs, try to jeez and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelve at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair 10AM2 three p m. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one. I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two eight six five nine two nine. Zero or visit w w w died. Mind over matter. Y si dot com. Cerini are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network duitz geever this is the talking alternative network. I’m tony martignetti, the host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. My guest now is ken cerini ken is managing partner at cerini in associates, which is an accounting audit and management consulting firm. Ken has an impressive array of acronyms following his name. Ken is a c p, a of course certified public accountant, also cfp, certified financial planner and d a b f a diplomat of the american board of forensic accountants a diplomat. I’m going to ask him if that comes with parking privileges in new york city, i’d like to have his license plates if it does, ken has a lot of experience working with large, publicly traded companies, small, closely held companies and, of course, non-profits both at his firm cerini in associates and also at ernst in young cerini in associates does ah lot of strategic and management consulting, which includes budget and cash flow analysis, contract reviews, compensation reviews and negotiated settlements with government agencies, and i’m very glad that ken’s work brings him to the show today can cerini welcome thanks for having my pleasure, small and medium non-profits are facing something now with the i r s their potential loss of tax exempt status if they haven’t filed their nine ninety lately, can you help us explain what’s going on there? Sure, sure, no problem what happened back in prior to two thousand seven non-profit organizations that generated under twenty five thousand dollars worth of annual revenue, we’re really not required to file tax returns basically, if they were smaller organizations, the government don’t don’t bother filing it would take too much paperwork and everything else to do these filings over the years. So the number of non-profits that have built up on the irs system has grown to be tremendous levels and toe manage that database it’s costing the irs a tremendous amount of money. There’s something like one point two or one point, three million non-profits now is that right? Very, very large, and a large percentage of those are under that twenty five thousand dollars threshold, right? Or very close to it very, very large percentage here in new york, which is where i’m from the the number of non-profits generating under a million dollars worth of annual revenue is probably close to about forty percent of the total non-profits yes, most non-profits that exist out there are smaller non-profit organization and that’s, exactly consistent with what i see on charity navigator statistics that the same forty percent number forty percent of the non-profits generating very low, sort of low levels, mid to low levels of revenue, but so i’m sorry. Go ahead, please consider what i’m saying. So then, in two thousand seven, the ira said in order for us to really gain an understanding of which of these non-profits are still in existence, or maybe some of these non-profits don’t really exist anymore. They set up a new finally requirement, which is really just a you know, one of those i am here type filings where it’s a postcard enough for nine ninety end that you just file electronically to let the government know that you’re still in existence and you’re still functioning as a non profit organization and that literally is a postcard that xero it’s for all practical purposes. Yes, it’s about three or four questions, and you’re done so the irs and again get filed electronically. So the irs said, if we don’t hear from you for your two thousand seven filing your two thousand eight filing into two thousand nine filing, we’re going to automatically assume that you no longer exist as a non profit organization, and we’re going to terminate your tax exempt status. So this is a problem that many non-profit organizations find themselves in right now because all along they’ve never had to do any sort of filing, and then the rules changed three years ago, and now they’re being asked to file even though it’s very simplistic there were being asked to file some level of filing and if they don’t know about it and they’re not following the changes in the iris regulations it’s possible that on, unbeknownst to them, they get terminated as a non profit organization and they no longer exist. Yes, and we’re talking about the smallest organizations that are apt to not have the expertise that tracks, you know, new irs regulations, new being back in two thousand seven, typical typically, these organizations from the rely heavily upon volunteers, so they’re using a lot of their board of directors are probably unsophisticated, you know, they’re focused on, um, the core mission and really minor activities that they’re doing, and they’re really not focusing on, you know, the changes. That are happening out there in the irs. So what can an organization due to find out if it’s at risk and then be if it is, how could they get into compliance? The irs has a if you go to irs dot gov, which is the irises website, and you look up exempt organizations, the irs has the listing of those organizations as of june thirtieth that had not yet filed um and it’s broken out by state and in new york state alone, there’s twenty one thousand five hundred seventy eight non-profits on this list and that is the list of organizations at risk of automatic rev a gate revocation of tax exempt status that’s the heading on that page yet that’s correct. Okay, the’s the once and again the hasn’t been updated far as i know since june thirtieth, so this is a little outdated, so on organization, who has recently filed may find themselves on this list, but they need to understand that that’s because the information is as of june thirtieth, organizations that are december thirty first year and filers have until october fifteenth to come in compliance if they don’t come into compliance by october fifteenth and that’s actually an extended it was originally made fifteen from the irs gave organizations in additional time frame till october fifteenth, but if they don’t come into compliance by october fifteenth, they are going to lose their epic and they’re going to have their exams are exempt organizations revoked. I think iris was concerned about what was gonna happen with that original date and there was a fair amount of popular press leading up to that date, but still the vast majority of organizations didn’t take advantage of coming into compliance, so they think they were sort of forced to extend it lest i don’t know many hundreds of thousands of organisations lose their status on dh again. The answer may be that many of these organizations are not functioning any more. I have ceased to function over the years and, you know, losing their exempt status is not a big deal, but i’m sure looking on the list. There are some organizations that are still functioning on dh you really have no idea that this is happening and really stand to be in a position where you know they find themselves on october sixteenth, they’re exempt. Status is gone and they could be putting donors at risk. They could be put in the organization of risk, their board at risk and everything else. My guest is ken cerini, managing partner of cerini and associates. We are live today taking your calls. The calling number is eight, seven, seven, four, eight, zero, forty one, twenty eight, seven, seven, forty xero forty one twenty. Now, if you were listening to the divorce our with larry bloom right before the show you heard larry say that this was our first live show, but larry’s show was an archive edition pre recorded the so we’ve had a plethora three live shows that i believe this is our third life show. So don’t be don’t be discouraged whether it’s our first or third or really is many, many more which it’s not please call in if you have questions at eight seven seven for a tow forty one twenty can how is the recession that we are still in the midst of affecting smaller organizations in terms of especially, i think, in terms of cash flow, i think what you find out there that most non-profit organizations, if you think about the economy there more people out of work there are businesses are not doing as well. So there’s less money flowing to the non profit sector. We see out there that the the amount of contributions and fund-raising going to the non profit sector is down somewhere in the twenty five to thirty percent range and has been over the last probably a year and a half. So you know, you’ve got these organizations that are receiving much less money than what they’re used teo and what we find on, i think it’s kind of born out across the country is that the number one funding source for nonprofit organizations is government grants is probably number one and number two, especially for the smaller organizations, contributions and fund-raising so organizations rely very, very heavily upon these government grants coming in, and they rely extremely heavily upon the contribution income that’s coming in. So when that income is down twenty five, thirty percent there’s going to be much more of an onus on the government grants and making sure that that government funding is flowing on a regular basis? Yes, but that let me just say much more focused on the need for the government grant about going in so that that that helps the buoy are both of the cash flow that they have and all happening. One of the quick comment before i get back to that you’re in a situation where, especially in the health and welfare type organizations that provide benefits to two people, the fact that there’s ah hyre level of unemployment there’s a higher level of stress and people’s lives, people are turning mohr towards alcohol, drugs, things like that because of the stresses in their lives. Um, you’re in a situation where the level of need for service treyz up, so you’ve got increasing level of need for service, and he’s got a decrease in the funding that’s coming in, and then, as i mentioned before, so they’re relying more heavily on government funding. Now, one of the problems that you have is, you know, in this environment that we find ourselves in, not only is it that the individuals and businesses are having cash flow constraints and problems, but the government is having some issues too, so the government has been cutting back on some of the funding that it’s done on top. Of that, the government, because they have been able to get their budgets passed because again, strains on cash flow at the government level has also slowed down the payments that they’re making to the non profit sector, which is kind of adding to the problem. So you’ve got non-profit organizations, they’re seeing decreases and funding to begin with and then on top of it, the government funding which is supposed to be, you know, that constant that rock that’s there on on an annual basis is either starting to dry up a little or or is taking longer to get in the doors on it’s, creating all sorts of cash flow issues for the housing sector. And what are you counseling your clients who are find themselves in this situation? What organizations really need to do it, it’s all about communication? I mean, i think communication is something that’s extremely important, so it really comes back down to communication. A lot of these organizations need to go out and talk to their their banks and developed banking relationships early on in the process, you know, they need to make sure that the banks understand that the money will be there, it’s, just a matter of time. You know, banks are starting to look at the non-profits and they’re they’re receivables of the nonprofit organizations are aging at a little further than they normally would be, which makes the non-profit look like they’re less bankable, so just explain that a little bit. Why is why isn’t an aged receivable less less appealing to a bank or less bankable? Because when a bank looks at a nonprofit organizations receivables, they’re looking at it in terms of our these receivables collectible, and typically what happens is the older reese thie older receivable is the less likely that an organization is going to collect that people usually receivables once they start aging out usually means that maybe there’s something wrong with that receivable and that’s. Why the money hasn’t come in yet unfortunately, in today’s environment, that’s not always because the receivable is not a good one. Ah lot of times, it’s, because, you know the cash flows constraints that the governmental agencies air having again here in new york, it took a long time to get the budget passed, and since the budget wasn’t passed on a timely basis, they were delays. In getting contract signed because the contracts were delayed in getting signed. It was delays in getting the money out to non-profit organizations. And it becomes, you know, this this domino effect and a lot of organizations were left there trying to figure out, how am i gonna pay my payroll? So even though the ah the entity that owes the money is is a government agency, the bank still looks at that as, ah less likely to be received. Um, i again and i think that’s where it comes into that communication piece where non-profit organizations need to be able to go to the bank and say, hey, look, here’s what’s happening out there in the marketplace, we have government grants, those government grants are going to come in here’s the signed contract, we’re going to get the money even though it’s been aged out more than typical krauz maybe the bank is used to seeing the non-profit collect the money in sixty to ninety days and now it’s one hundred twenty hundred fifty days out by having that communication by developing that that strong, open communication line with the banker that you’re working with, it really can help. To ensure that the the lines of credit in the cash flow continue to flow into the nonprofit organization while the organization is waiting for government grants to free up. And when you talk about aged, is that you mentioned a hundred twenty, one hundred fifty days is that roughly the time at which ah ah, bank or other agents potential credit agency is likely to start calling these receivables aged? Is that roughly the time frame? Somewhere in that range, when you start getting toe one hundred twenty hundred, fifty hundred eighty becomes a lot less attractive. Typically, banks like to see the money collected it within ninety days, and for the most part, most non-profits really should collect their money within a ninety day period of time, especially when they’re relying heavily upon service government type money again, unfortunately, in today’s economy, that’s not happening, so banks would be open to this kind of a conversation. I mean, this sounds a lot like the advice for here in the popular press if you’re having trouble with your mortgage that you should pick up the phone and call the lender. So in this case, banks are willing to have this kind of a conversation, i mean, they’ll they’ll take this kind of a call, you have what you have a relationship already with the bank it’s been, you know, you’ve had that relationship for a period of time, the bank’s really from a working with a nonprofit sector, the banks really don’t want to pull loans from non-profits it really doesn’t look good for them either on dh banks get credits working with the non profit sector, so it is a positive that the banks want to work with sector, so they just want to know that their loan is going to be a good loan and that you know, that there’s, rational and reasons behind what’s taking place. And if you open up those lines of communication and they’re going to be much more responsive than if you just send them something and say we need more money and cannon just the forty five seconds or so we have before a break, are you finding that non-profits or doing this, or are they mohr sort of staying in their shell and just maybe cowering? I don’t think they’re doing it as much as they should. That’s not to. Say that they’re not doing it. It just i always believed that in business you need to be very proactive in your approach to dealing with professionals that you work with and that you need to reach out and keep those lines of communication open. Because if you don’t, then problems can occur. If you do then everybody’s on the same page, and at least you know if the bank is going to have a problem with it, you know, up front, you know you need to seek alternative. So the tip really is. Pick up the phone, talk to your banker when you before you start to see a problem and head off the head off a potential crisis in cash flow. My guest is ken cerini. We’re going to take a break, and when ken returns with us, we’ll talk a little about his work in compensation reviews and maybe some excess compensation problems. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 and aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on jobs, try to jeez and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelve at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair from 10 a m to three p m. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one. Oppcoll are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com pompel i’m tony martignetti my guest is ken cerini managing partner of cerini and associates can if someone would like to contact you, how is the best way to do that? I could be reached either by email, which is can see at cerini and associates dot com all spelled out d e r i and i a nd associates dot com or by phone six, three, one, five eight, sixteen hundred and my extension in thank you and the cerini and associates website is www dot cerini c e r n i a nd associates dot com can. There has been a fair amount of popular press about excessive compensation for ceos and other sea level people at at non-profits part of your work is compensation reviews what i’d like to spend the remaining time few minutes we have talking about how a non-profit can determine whether they’re in paying excessive compensation. The irs has established some rules regarding excessive compensation under internal revenue code section forty nine fifty eight, which deals with what’s known as intermediate sanctions. So really, what the irs came out and said, and this this was a result of some of the abuses that happened. Back in the late nineties, where the irs said, you know, we can’t really take away a non-profits exempt status if they if they are over paying their executive director, so what we’re gonna do is we’re going toe charge penalties to both the executive director and any board members who knowingly participate in that overpayment on bats and then pull the exact status, which was really the only teeth the irs had back then. That’s the interim sanction is these these penalties? You know what that is that the interim sanction the intermediate, the intermediates and penalties that the irs now imposes penalties are very, very steep there they could be as high as fifty percent of the excess compensation, so they’re very, very steep. So anyway, so so what happens is non-profit organizations and typically mohr affects larger organizations than smaller, but it really comes down to the salary levels that are being paid non-profit organizations need to really understand that the salary that there, whether the salaries, they’re paying the three key individuals within the organization, which is usually the executive director and other top level management appropriate compensation. And when you look at compensation, you kind of look at the whole package so it looks at not just the salary that’s being paid, but any other benefits that go with it, and the nine, ninety form, which is the tax return that non-profits are required to file, really has very clear with on the form, not just the organization itself, but any related organizations that are associated with that non-profit organization, it has really targeted questions on how much money is being paid to this organization, so it makes it very, very easy for the irs to identify the level of compensation that this individual is receiving and can in just the short amount of time that we have left just about a minute. What, what, what can a non-profit due to see whether they’re paying excessively? The easiest way to handle this is really to go back, and if you go online and do some research, you can find some salary surveys that are out there online there’s some that you can pay for, but there are others that are free, and what you want to do is you want to look to see if the compensation that the executive director is getting compensated is in line with the other competitions for similar sized organizations doing similar things that your organization does in a similar area of the country. The other thing you could do is you can actually go to guidestar dot or ge, which is where all the nine nineties air posted for all of the nonprofit organizations. And you can look at other organizations within your community that are very similar to the organization that you know that you are, and you can take the information of what their executive directors were there. You know, chief people are getting compared to your organization to see if you fall in line with what the other compensations are or whether you’re outside of the realm of what the averages for the group. Thank you very much to look at it. It’s something a that we typically recommend that is done by the board or by a compensation committee of the board. So that it really gets an independent review. And when you look at this on do the board or the independent competition committee are reviewing and approving it? Um, you know, you want to make sure that if the salary does fall outside of the realm that there’s at least the process going through to say why the individual deserves more. Then what? The averages and there’s a rational for that decision making process can we are out of time, but those are excellent ideas and both free ways. Simple ways of doing a benchmark to determine whether you might be at risk of this excessive compensation problem. My guest has been ken cerini, managing partner of cerini and associates. Can one thank you very much for being on tony martignetti non-profit radio. Tony, thank you for having me. My pleasure. Thank you. I’m going to bring now. Ah, guest from san francisco, jean takagi. Gene is an attorney for non-profits. We’re going to talk about some techniques to keep your board out of trouble. Jean welcome to the show. Thank you very much. My pleasure to have you. We’re taking calls again. We’re live today eight, seven, seven, four, eight, zero for one to xero taking calls for jean takagi. If you have some jean, we hear the phrase board governance. What? What does that mean? Well, it means a few things, tony. I think from a legal perspective, it means that the board is responsible toe exercise, its duty of care in its duty of loyalty and duty of obedience, and overseeing the operations and management of the organization to directors of aboard are ultimately responsible for the control in operations of the non-profits providing oversight or governance is the way that that exercise, and so that is very interesting, that duty of care, loyalty and obedience. And i neglected to say when i brought gene on that his practice in san francisco but nationwide is in compliance, governance and non-profit law and gene is the author of the non-profit block, which you’ll find at sorry non-profit law blawg, which you’ll find at non-profit law blawg dot com, and i’ll bet you could go there right now and don’t close this window that you’re listening from. But if you can open another window simultaneously, you can listen to gene and at the same time wed his writing’s on nonplayoff non-profit law blawg dot com you can follow gene on twitter as i do he is at g d, a k at g ta k on twitter, and ken does an enormous amount of speaking. Also, he also serves on local non-profit and exempt organization boards, advisory boards and so that makes him eminently qualified to talk about these subjects board governance and non-profit law generally let’s talk let’s flush out the sort of this board governance a little bit. Gene. What what? How do these duties of care, loyalty and obedience translate to actions that the board should be taking an individual board members should be taking sure. Well, i think they’re a triple ways to look at it from a practical perspective and not just legal perspective was a swell. So the board is response pompel really for directing the organisation for providing oversight over the organization on also for protecting the organization on dh it’s acid, which may be held in charitable trust if the organization or non-profit is a charitable non-profit so with those three duties and part of the protection, the protection, the other part of the p uh, is planning is the board is responsible for planning the direction of the organization as well. So in meeting aboard fiduciary duty, the duty of care, the duty of loyalty and duty of obedience, the board has really got to be active in terms of attending meetings in terms of providing oversight over the financial activities for the organization and part of that is regularly receiving financial reports that speak to the financial health of the organization and boards must understand how to read those financial statements, maybe not with the same type of precision and detail that people might be looking at it, but certainly with the level of understanding that they can react appropriately when it’s clear to an ordinary, prudent person or an average reasonable person that the organization may be facing some sort of financial difficulty. Gene, is there any obligation or maybe it’s just ah, good idea that that a non-profit actually provide some training two board members in reading financial statements, i think that’s absolutely true had tony, and that might be part of the duties of executive director or ceo of the organization to facilitate that type of board development and where there are no staff members, certainly up to the president or chair of the board and the cfo or treasure training the board to get, um, comfortable in reading financials and regularly encouraging board development and facilitating it as well, i think are very, very important part of a gn officer’s duties and since you mentioned training, what about new board members? So we just talked about little you just explained for us the training on reading, financial statements, but what what else should a non-profit the organization itself be doing to support new board members who are who have just joined the organisation? I think i think governance committee, if the board is large enough to support such a committee or the board it stuff, has got to be involved in board development in four areas. First, in the recruitment of directors, clearly you have to select the right people who are willing to serve the government functions of the organization. You’re not just picking based on how much fund-raising they could do or how, how involved they are, maybe as volunteers in the activities of programmatic activities of the organization, but you really want to pick people who are capable and who want to exercise their government studio orientation is the next part, and i think that what you were speaking about, bringing new board members in and making sure that they are aware of things like the governing documents of the organization, it’s articles of incorporation and its by-laws these air documents that shouldn’t just sit on the shelf because part of the duty of obedience or the one of the fiduciary duties of the board is to operate in compliance with the applicable laws, including the organization’s internal laws, which are usually documented in the articles on by-laws and maybe other policies, like a conflict of interest policy, whistleblower policy, etcetera, orienting the board with respect to our new board, members of respected e organizations, internal laws and general fiduciary duties. I think it’s really important than aboard handbook with a job description with boarding stations and an understanding of what the organization does, what its mission is, programmatic activities. All of that is really important and actually that’s really important on the recruitment and as well. But once the new directors in there, they should have a board manual aboard book perhaps a mentor on the board to help guide the organization through then regular training’s after that. And and jean, you said there are four elements we’ve covered to recruitment and orientation. I’m goingto interrupt you for a moment because we have a call on line one eyes this mary-jo hi. Hello. Thank you for taking mary. Welcome to the show. You have a question for jean? I d’oh. First, i want to thank you for a dressing that new nine, ninety and new filings with the irs. That was great. Have excellent. Thank you very much. What’s your question for for jean? Well, i struggle sometimes with board expectations, and i find that some, uh, some boardmember tend to get very, very involved in into sort of business that they don’t necessarily need to be involved in, and the others are completely absent. And you started to talk about orientation and group recruitment, and then i lost the rest of it. I’m wondering how to sort of establish the boundaries, and andi really get them involved in things you want them to be involved in. So we’re talking really about the organization setting expectations for its its board members now, yeah, gene, how how should the organization be doing that? That may be one of the most difficult questions i fielded, and one that that many, many non-profits struggle with the relationship between the executive director of the board is a critical component to an organization being able to further its mission. Effectively and efficiently and when you have a brand new organizations a little bit easier to do because we consent outboard expectations and on the recruitment side so once you bring in boardmember is they have an idea of what their expectations maybe so in your recruitment materials job description, sort of the boundaries of of where director’s duties are and where they stop and where the manager executive director’s duties are and where they stop and where there is some overlap that can all be established. It’s still there’s still a lot of grey and overlap between governance and management that’s not an easy thing, but it’s easier to do with a new organization within existing organisation. It’s really tough? I don’t have a quick, snappy thirty second answer to that, but this may be a time when a consultant or an attorney who’s got experience in government who can speak to the board about its legal duties and its roles will be ableto, i think, helped define the board duties and see that it will help director see that they’ve got a lot on their plate without infringing in the areas of day to day management, which really belonged to executive director still may have a third party in there. Yeah, having having a consultant can really help again. This is with a more established organization, that’s been running and that’s been having difficulty with this. The board may not be willing, teo respond so easily to an executive director who says, well, you’re infringing on my territory this is where the boundaries should be because executive director really serves at the pleasure of the board on. So the board may be a little uncomfortable receiving directions from from the mary-jo when it comes from an outside consultant, and sometimes when it comes from from a lawyer, it can hold a little bit more authority, and it might be treated a little bit more objectively. We see the same thing actually gene in in fund-raising there are things that consultants khun persuade boards off that the ceo executive director is just unable to mary, i want to thank you very much for your question. Wei need teo. We’re gonna take a break, and when we return, jean takagi will stay with us. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. Hyre i think, duitz cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. 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Two one, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll i’m the host of tony martignetti non-profit radio, and i’m joined by jean takagi. Gene, we got another call on the brake, so we’re goingto talk. Teo stacy, you with us? Stacey stacey, welcome to the show. What’s your question for jean? Hi, i i i work for a small non-profit and he was mentioning about the board. And i’m wondering when you’re starting up a nonprofit, is it wise to have a mix of professionals on your board like a mix of professionals, diverse backgrounds. So, like, ideally, what types of professionals would you pick one? I got ten member board of a small non-profit, you know, from, like, lawyers, the financial planners like who were the people who are important to be on that board? Thank you, stacie. Thank you, stacy. So that question jean really goes to recruitment. The first of the four things which i hope we get to. What about that diversity on your board? In recruiting, i think. That’s a great consideration. Teo, bring to the table. When you’re founding members, decide on who can you talk a little bit louder, please or move. The phone may be closer to you. Sure. It’s just a little bit, but yes, it is. Thank you. Great, i think it’s great tohave a skills matrix when you’re recruiting board, wrecked your board on dh if that’s possible. If you have enough recruits so that you can be selective and you can get some professionals in various areas, i think that would be ideal having somebody with an accounting background, perhaps somebody with an investment background, somebody with a legal background, but somebody who worked in the nonprofit sector before, perhaps, and fund-raising perhaps as an executive director, those would all be ideal individuals have diversity in other areas. Besides, skills may also be important diversity, so that you include perhaps some, some segment of the beneficiaries that your charity serves. Having them represented represented on the board can bring a diversity of issues to you as well. So i think it’s ideal tohave have those girls, major, but sometimes it’s a luxury to have all those people, because on top of all of these things, you need people who are really willing to fill their duties, their legal duties as boards of directors and be diligent about providing oversight over the organization, not just financial oversight, which we’ve been focused on so far, but definitely programmatic oversight because after all, non-profits aren’t existence to make a profit. The financials are really important, but on lee so faras they’re there to help fulfilled the charitable mission is effectively and efficiently as possible programmatic oversight ultimately important for her board. Yes, they need thio love the work that you do in addition to having whatever professional expertise they do, they need to love your work. Thank you very much. Thanks, stacey. Thanks very much for your call. Thank you, jean. I hope we have time. Well, i’ll try to make sure we do have time. You had said there are four things to consider. Andi got through recruitment and orientation. Can you let’s continue? What else should organizations be conscious about board members? Great. Third way that an executive may be ableto help in board development is through training that we could talk about recruitment, then orientation and training is sort of the ongoing training that that executive director or board president may facilitate for the rest of the board on this could be done by a periodic distributions of materials to the board. If the executive chair comes across important information regarding governance, short, snappy articles regularly distributed board members may be really helpful, bringing in consultants we’ve already talked about once a year, having a consultant come in and talk ng about do sherry duties or specific duties with respect to finances or with respect to programmatic management or fund-raising having those people come in will generate more interest among the board, and those types of training would be good against again, often times it’s more helpful to bring an outsider in it. It’s, a volunteer that’s, great that’s great, so long as that person is qualified to give that training, but training the board, that’s, that’s the the third thing, and then the fourth thing which sort of overlaps with the training, which i think i’ve already discussed about, is to ensure that the board is added with adequately getting information before boardmember things about the actions that they’re going to take that board meeting so they need to get the information well in advance so that they can prepare for the board meeting and make informed decisions because that’s key to meeting their fiduciary duties. A guest on a previous show, jean had made the point that, ah, lot of the administrative work should be done in advance, so that board meetings can actually be more engaging. And there can be people, maybe guest speakers, at a board meeting. But not to lose sight of the important administrative work. Just do as much of the administrative work is possible in advance. Jean in just the minute or so that we have left what’s your advice on ceos on boards? Well durney and it’s a difficult situation, but i think the general rule is that the ceo, our executive director, should not be on the board of directors. That would be the general rule, and there may be some exceptions to this, but i think even in the case of exceptions, it’s the best practices a best practice for organizations to work towards having a strong enough board that the executive does not need to be a voting member of the board. This does not mean that executive would not be invited to attend board meetings except when the board goes into executive session, but the reasons for this are really because of the conflicts of interests that executive director may have in serving on the board executives serves at the pleasure of the board, and the board is responsible for providing oversight over the executive, so typically in the for-profit sector with public cos you don’t see the ceo on the board of directors because they’re going to report to the board, and you have that check and balance there with new small non-profits sometimes you see the ceo or e t on the board, but again, i think it’s the best practice toe work to get to get that check and bound to have an independent board. My guest has been gene takagi non-profit attorney, you’ll find him at non-profit law blawg, dot com and also on twitter at gt a k jean, thank you very much for joining us on the show. Thank you very much for having me. I want to thank my guests today, stephanie straume and ken cerini and also jean takagi next week will be karen bradunas human resource is consultant. Your most coveted assets are the people who work for you. How do you attract the right people? Hyre them retain train and motivate them, and when it doesn’t work out, how do you move them on all done legally to keep your non-profits reputation safe, that’s next friday, september third, my guest for the hour will be carrying bradunas i want to thank creative producer claire meyerhoff line producer sam liebowitz and our social media is by regina walton speaking of social media, we have a facebook fan page facebook dot com slash tony martignetti non-profit radio head over there and like us, this is tony martignetti non-profit radio on talking alternative broadcasting. Please join us. Next friday, one p, m eastern.