Tag Archives: partnerships

Nonprofit Radio for June 21, 2021: Movement Messaging & Farewell, Maria Semple

My Guests:

Hannah Thomas & Morgan Fletcher: Movement Messaging

Expanding on the partnership theme two weeks ago, consider building a movement with orgs outside your direct mission. You’ll want cohesive, effective messaging and that’s where Hannah Thomas and Morgan Fletcher can help. Hannah is with Big Duck and Morgan is at Girls for Gender Equity. This is part of our 21NTC coverage.

 

 

 

 

 

Maria Semple: Farewell, Maria Semple

Maria Semple

Her first Nonprofit Radio was February 11, 2011. Soon after she became our prospect research contributor. Maria’s practice has evolved and this is her last show. Quoting somebody, nobody can identify: “Don’t cry because it’s over; smile because it happened.”

 

 

 

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[00:00:11.24] spk_4:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big

[00:00:15.74] spk_2:
non profit ideas for

[00:01:51.04] spk_6:
The other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with hyper nutri mia if you shared the salty idea that you missed this week’s show movement messaging, expanding on the partnership theme two weeks ago, consider building a movement with org’s outside your direct mission. You’ll want cohesive effective messaging and that’s where Hannah thomas and morgan fletcher can help Hannah is with big duck and morgan is at girls for gender equity. This is part of our 21 NTC coverage and farewell Maria Semple Her first nonprofit radio was February 11, Soon after she became our prospect research contributor, Maria’s practice has evolved and this is her last show quoting somebody nobody can identify, don’t cry because it’s over smile because it happened. tony state too podcast pleasantries were sponsored by turn to communications. Pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o and by sending blue the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. Let’s get started. Shall we hear is movement

[00:01:54.62] spk_2:
messaging.

[00:02:11.74] spk_5:
Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 MTC. The 2021 nonprofit technology conference. We’re sponsored at 21. NTC by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot c O. My guests

[00:02:12.42] spk_2:
now are Hannah, thomas

[00:02:23.64] spk_5:
senior strategist at big duck and morgan fletcher, Director of marketing and storytelling at girls for gender equity. Hello morgan welcome.

[00:02:26.44] spk_3:
Hey, tony excited to be here,

[00:02:28.51] spk_1:
I. tony Thank

[00:02:33.64] spk_5:
you. Pleasure to have you on nonprofit radio and our coverage of the 21 MTC uh your

[00:02:36.68] spk_2:
session topic

[00:02:41.24] spk_5:
is me versus we. Well, we versus me. We versus me.

[00:02:42.60] spk_2:
Maybe it makes a difference.

[00:02:55.04] spk_5:
We’ll find out if it makes a difference, but we’ll get it correct. We versus me Building messaging for a movement. Hannah, would you get us started with with some basics? What is this movement messaging that we are talking about?

[00:02:58.54] spk_3:
Yeah, I’d love to start us off with that. Um, so to set some context in the nonprofit landscape over the

[00:03:05.49] spk_1:
last few years, there’s

[00:03:38.34] spk_3:
been a lot of efforts made by nonprofits to band together in coalition to work in partnership um in in service of movements that exist beyond even just the organization’s mission. Um, so those are causes that are benefiting the collective sector, benefiting the larger world. Um and they really require a different take on messaging. A lot of times, nonprofits are very focused on clearly articulating themselves in their mission and making sure their audiences are really motivated to support them. But movement messaging in order to be effective, has to be used by multiple voices, multiple entities, um and move a bunch of different audiences to take action in support of a larger cause. Um So where when we’re talking about movement messaging, we’re talking about sort of a reframing um from me to we so that that sort of explains the title there.

[00:04:16.24] spk_5:
Okay, So we we versus me is Okay or Me versus we is okay, but we’re going to go from me to we Exactly not. We to me, that’s the opposite of what we’re trying to do. All right. That would be taking a great cause and distilling it down to uh were the center of the universe, and we’re the only ones who can do this work. So the rest of you are out exactly

[00:04:19.01] spk_3:
opposite.

[00:04:48.54] spk_5:
That’s exactly what we’re not doing, right? That’s antithetical to what we’re talking about. Okay. All right, um, morgan. Let’s bring you in. Let’s help us understand what the value is of working outside our mission. Because I I want to I’m thinking of our listeners. You know, they they’re they’re tied up in their work and I want them to help or I want to help you to help them see the benefit of seeing outside your own individual mission to a broader cause. So what what what was the experience that girls for gender equity?

[00:06:34.84] spk_1:
Yeah, for sure. So it goes for gender equity and we call ourselves G for short, just as context for who we are. An intergenerational organization based in Brooklyn. Um, that’s centering black cis gender and transgender girls and gender non conforming non binary youth of color in the fight for gender and racial justice. So with the mission statement like that obviously actually is quite broad, which allows us a lot of opportunity to partner and collaborate with organizations who are able to meet us at the intersections of the lived experiences of the young people that were working with. So, for example, Environmental justice, economic justice, all these other issues are also racial justice issues. And so we have a lot of entry points to our work, particularly for this session with Hannah. We I was speaking about a national agenda for black girls, which is G. S. First national campaign that we launched in alignment with the presidential election. Keeping in mind that we were always trying to center young people of diverse backgrounds but of color To help us shift policy priorities and have them actually be informed by people who need the change in their lives. So there are plenty of organizations that we partnered with in this work. We had about 60 endorsing organizations. And the campaign itself is spearheaded by a steering committee of 80 young people from across the country and they each represent their own organizations that are local. So we’re able to work collaboratively with these organizations that may be may fall under the umbrella of what we’re talking about, right, these intersectional areas of young people’s experiences, but they may not be, you know, exactly cookie cutter like girls for gender equity, but the issues that we’re talking about are in alignment with theirs. And so we’re able to develop strong messaging that all of the organizations collaborating with us can uplift and use and take action on

[00:07:01.14] spk_5:
any. Was there any consternation at G about working in broader coalitions and and excuse me, maybe, you know, diluting some of our own work, you know, were there any? Was there any pushback like in the organization? May be among the board? Just you know, I’m trying to help people see what what obstacles might be might be out there for them to do this

[00:08:36.54] spk_1:
work? Absolutely, yeah. Did you have any of that? We were very fortunate. I will say that um we had a really good base of organizations that we were used to collaborating with in this way who were aligned with our values? Already newer organizations of course came in and um, you know, did a gut check with us and had we had internal conversations and we hold we hold regular meetings for those folks as well as we kind of catch them up on where our messaging is coming from to continue to check that we are still in alignment and with our priorities and framing. But I would say that actually the place where we experience the most challenge and growth as an organization and as a campaign running team was in the messaging around identity. You know, you heard me list a couple of different gender presentations and identity that one might claim moving through this world and for us, especially as we’re co collaborate and co designing this campaign with the young people in the steering committee. We had a lot of conversations around like, well honestly, who’s a black girl? Why are we framing it this way? Do we, you know, how expensive is this terminology? And does it accurately represent? Do people who are on this campaign feel accurately represented by this language? So I would say that a lot not a lot of but most of the pushback that we were receiving was extremely useful because it was coming from young people themselves who were saying, you know, I’m not binary, I don’t love that, this is framed this way. And I’m like, as you know, as a person who’s in charge of the frame and like great, keep giving me that feedback, right? Let’s create a campaign that actually represents you and how you’re moving through this world. That’s the point. So I would say a lot of constantly having that dialogue so we can continue to make sure that the campaign is serving the people, it’s intending to serve.

[00:08:50.34] spk_5:
I have to broaden my mind because when I got if I if I were getting that kind of feedback that you gotta be like, this is so annoying, why can’t you just agree with what we all we all the rest of us agreed on. Why can’t you just jump on board what you have to cause

[00:08:58.25] spk_2:
trouble? So

[00:08:59.49] spk_1:
it makes it a really time consuming

[00:09:22.44] spk_5:
process. It’s frustrating, but you always frustration usually leads to a better place. I mean if it’s channeled right, you know it’s unproductive than then it’s destructive but you know in creativity I found that frustration usually leads to a better a better outcome. Alright let’s go back to you now. So take a little broader Hannah help us identify like what, how does Big Duck think of a movement? What’s a what’s a movement?

[00:09:56.44] spk_3:
Yeah. I think um actually really related to what you’re just talking about, the language, the definitions, all of this stuff is you know always evolving and all we were always adapting what we think about as a movement and the role that messaging can play in that. Um But generally a big duck. We’re thinking about a movement as the commitment of many to work together and create transformative change based on a shared purpose or goal. And we see movement

[00:09:57.55] spk_5:
any. I’m distilling that down to uh many, working on a shared purpose or goal.

[00:10:04.27] spk_3:
That’s right towards transformative change.

[00:10:26.54] spk_5:
Okay, Okay. And how about um the messaging? How do you conceive of the messaging? And then we’re gonna we’re gonna have to dive in and explain how we how we all work together to ally around a common message, but help us understand. I mean, are we just talking about the simple it’s just a simple communications. The what each of us produce.

[00:10:41.34] spk_3:
Yeah, we are talking about, you know, all of the different ways that you can communicate something to an audience and try and prompt them or motivate them to take action with you. And so that can be, you know, in a tweet, that can be all different sorts of ways that you can communicate out. That can be in the stories that you tell, the narratives that you’re trying to disrupt or push forward. Um there’s a lot of different ways that you can that can be at a rally when somebody is giving a speech, what’s being said there in that context. Um so we’re really thinking big big about what what messaging can look like and trying not to have a narrower prescriptive view.

[00:11:34.74] spk_5:
Okay, so yeah, whatever channels, whatever channels you have, and then does does each well, before we get to approval, like getting messaging approved? So, I don’t know, we’ll talk about that process if it’s even necessary. But how do you how do you start to bring folks together, around around a common message with, you know, inclusivity? And uh you just just convene a meeting and then you start somebody produce a document that everybody comments on it.

[00:11:38.16] spk_2:
How does this process work?

[00:11:41.54] spk_1:
Yeah, I would

[00:12:56.94] spk_3:
say that there’s probably a lot of different processes that work. Um but we found that helpful like in um to to align yourself with other organizations, other people, individuals who are would be aligned around a common cause is too start the conversation around shared values. Um and the opportunity agenda is obviously a great resource, doing a lot of work around storytelling using values and all that, but shared values are really an effective in for folks who wouldn’t otherwise get the nitty gritty of of what you’re trying to achieve, to understand their role in your cause and understand how it relates to their own. Um So we we talked about in our session all of the different ways that you can like sort of frame frame this cause in ways that use those deep shared values and also you know, fill in the context around that. Um So you know, we all believe in love. Um, so or we all believe in opportunity. Um, so maybe that’s an effective in for somebody, an organization who back in the day was advocating for a gay marriage, right? There was a lot of that was a great example at the time, actually, of the way that shared values were a really efficient, effective way for people to move hearts and minds, um, and to gather, you know, some momentum around this cause that on the surface, on the policy level folks weren’t really jelling with.

[00:13:11.64] spk_5:
That’s a great example. Yeah. Love who’s gonna disagree with that?

[00:13:15.74] spk_1:
Exactly,

[00:13:16.39] spk_3:
literally no one

[00:13:17.43] spk_5:
I’m the I’m the anti Love, I’m the anti Love

[00:13:21.16] spk_1:
candidate, tough to make

[00:13:24.26] spk_5:
not in favor of that.

[00:13:25.21] spk_2:
Yeah, that’s my platform

[00:13:26.50] spk_6:
is uh is hate, right?

[00:13:57.74] spk_5:
Well, there are people who have that, but they don’t call it that. Um even they would say that we I agree with Love. We agree with Love. Alright. So cool. All right. All right. Um And then it’s starting to frame these messages like you said, I’m kind of in the details, like So then All right. So, we have these shared values morgan. How do we start to build messaging? We just want to share documents that uh people start contributing to.

[00:14:00.23] spk_2:
How did that work?

[00:14:54.74] spk_1:
Yes, the process. Well, for us, honestly, it’s it really is that fundamental basic, just kind of like, look, let’s just start putting some things down. Of course, there’s all sorts of like jazzy processes you could design and do all sorts of like discovery conversations and, you know, you can call it by those names and that is what it is. But I think ultimately we really did just sit down as a team internal and lay out our vision as it aligned with, of course, the larger goals of the organization, because this was specific to a campaign, but this applies to all of our work. We sit down as a team, we pull out a document, um, and this was developed in the time where we could be in person at our office, so we were able to sit down together in a white board, technically, and put everything down, and then we started to introduce that to people that we thought would be great allies in the work. And so we had our entry points at each organization, based on people we knew through our connections personally. Um, and also just kind of put out a general call to action into these organizing spaces that we knew had similar values alignment or values alignment, and similar ideas about a progressive future for black girls. So we could run with that. So it really wasn’t. It really was a lot of google documents. Honestly.

[00:15:22.54] spk_5:
All right. So, so morgan did you have a formal organization that that you all created or this just like this? You didn’t make a legal organization out of all these entities? Right. You just you just all contributed to a campaign,

[00:15:50.34] spk_1:
correct? So we remained Girls for gender equity. And we launched a national agenda as an initiative of Girls for gender equity. Within that. We do have a steering committee, as I mentioned, that young people and then we also have the partner organizations who are represented by those young people and some who are not who are partners in the work at large. And so those things, those groups all have names, but we did not go about formalizing legally a new entity.

[00:16:05.74] spk_5:
Okay, Okay. Not necessary. Um, and so while this is going on, uh well, this larger campaign is going on, you’re still doing your own, your own messaging, Right, Aggie. You know, that’s not like that suspended or anything.

[00:16:12.21] spk_1:
No, definitely still definitely juggling both. Right. All right.

[00:16:17.84] spk_5:
And and how does how is fundraising impacted? Was was part of the campaign for fundraising for the for the entities or it was it was a different a different call to action?

[00:17:33.74] spk_1:
Yeah, fundraising is certainly call to action for national agenda specifically because it has its own funding. And so, you know, we’re fundraising for G were fundraising for a national agenda. And of course we are talking about G. I mean, we do narrative shift work, we do direct service work. We also do organizing policy campaigns work. So there are several different buckets of work that were fundraising for at any time. Um, I think what our process has been to keeping that streamlined for and under comprehensive and clear for our audiences is just naming, but in very clear, consistent terms, all of what we’re holding as best we can and acknowledging that it’s a lot and that allows us to lean into this the, you know, what, what Hannah and I were talking about before around intersectionality and the holistic nous of the work and the holistic nous of the movement work. Right? So we can say we’ve been very explicit about a national agenda is focusing on these national priorities. However, at a city and state level in new york where we’re based, this is what else we’re holding and how it is interlaced with these other priorities. And so we’re able to flesh out where all these things are meeting and also naming, you know, there you can choose to support any of these, but ultimately supporting us will support all of them.

[00:18:01.14] spk_5:
Hannah, help us understand some more around the the complexities of messaging and consistent messaging or maybe maybe have some big some best practices that Big Duck or something. Help us flush out the details of getting consistent messaging across all your, all the entities contributing to well, in morgan’s cases with the national agenda, but you know, whatever, whatever cause we might be working toward.

[00:18:46.14] spk_3:
Yeah, I think it’s really interesting because at Big Duck primarily were preaching, you need to have one voice, a very consistent voice, a very aligned voice. Everybody should be a brand ambassador who understands deeply what you’re positioning is, what your personality is, should be able to speak. You know, all you know, sounding the same with movements. I think it’s actually very different. I think you have to necessarily make space for people to communicate. The message is in their own way using their own personalities. Um the movement can’t it’s really in my view like an exercise in relinquishing control in a lot of ways and making sure that it’s it’s something that others can own as well and feel like it’s theirs to speak about in their own voice.

[00:19:01.14] spk_5:
It’s interesting like nobody owns it, but everybody, everybody owns it, but nobody owns it.

[00:19:53.94] spk_3:
Exactly. And that’s why you can see a lot of um successful movements. One that I think is really cool is the land back movement and campaign. So there are website is very simple and it has a manifesto with about 10 lines of text on it about all the different meanings that land back has in terms of a literal, you know, meaning of we want to get this land back. But also the narrative, this means about our relation to our relationship to the environment, our relationship to racial justice, all of these different things. So it sort of sets up a basic something to work with. But if you look at the hashtag land back on instagram or something like that, there are so many folks, so many individuals who are able to um build meaning from that from that manifesto and take it in new directions and give it new life all sort of aligned generally around that manifesto, but really expanding um expanding the meaning.

[00:20:12.04] spk_5:
Anything either of you want to want to say about this sort of this consistent shared messaging

[00:20:15.14] spk_2:
Before we uh

[00:20:16.47] spk_5:
before we move on, morgan you’re shaking your head. You want to add some more.

[00:20:39.84] spk_1:
Yeah, I just wanted to underscore I think how important it is for there to be a muscle for constant vulnerability, openness to feedback and collaboration. Um you know, campaigns as Hannah was saying, you know, folks are able to step into the campaign work individuals and organizations and make it their own in a way and that is so special and unique and you also want to be sure that that does not spiral into another direction of course. And so you want to also provide structure and infrastructure for folks to feel supported as they’re moving with this campaign. Right?

[00:20:54.54] spk_5:
Like what? Like what kind of structure and infrastructure?

[00:20:56.94] spk_1:
Yeah, So I would say, you know, developing really basic tools that people can use, like messaging, kids digital tool kits to provide folks with key talking points graphics, if you want there to be visual cohesion to your campaign and folks don’t always use that stuff, you know, of course they’re like, that doesn’t match individuals might be like, doesn’t match my aesthetic organizations might be like, you know, we want to frame it a little differently. So the intersection with our work is more cohesive and clear to our audiences, but you want to give folks a starting point so they can say, you know, I like looking at land, land backs manifesto, they can refer to some tools and documents and say, okay, I know where this is rooted. And I’m going to pull these pieces from it for my, my specific messaging or my organization specific messaging and then having consistent checking with folks, you know, updating that regularly, letting folks know it’s being updated, these real basic communications that get lost because you’re holding so much.

[00:22:09.24] spk_5:
Do you feel like giving Tuesday is an example of what we’re talking about, or like spun large, you know, billions of dollars now? Or is that really something, something different because it’s so decentralized? I mean we’re talking about something decentralized here, like I said everybody owns it but nobody owns it, but I don’t know do you feel like giving Tuesday is an example of could be an example large of what we’re talking about or or no, that’s really something different.

[00:22:46.74] spk_1:
I think so, especially to disagree with me and say something. No, I was thinking about it, you know, I think um I mean we’re talking specifically about very progressive movements. I certainly am, but I’m thinking about how they, you know, they really provide, we are obviously participating giving Tuesday um and they always provide such incredible materials. So you you feel so clear through the process. Okay, I’ve got 44 months, six months out. How do I build this campaign around this moment? Right. And I always feel so prepared for giving Tuesday because they’re able to roll out such robust materials to build that infrastructure for us as organizations.

[00:23:08.04] spk_5:
Alright, well, there’s at least lessons to take from giving Tuesday in terms of the support you mentioned, support infrastructure. Um one of the things that you mentioned in your session description Hannah is that you want folks to reconsider some best practices that may be hindering their cause. What does that mean?

[00:23:09.14] spk_1:
Yeah,

[00:24:37.94] spk_3:
we, we hit on some of it earlier when we’re talking about intersectionality and making space for, you know, other causes or things that are not directly in your lane, but maybe in the next lane over. Um I wanted to include say this Audrey Lorde quote. There’s no such thing as a single issue struggle because we do not live single issue lives. So if you are an environmental organization, but you don’t see how that could connect to racial justice or to voting rights or to whatever else may be out there. You’re missing some great opportunities to expose, you know, that there’s critical connections between all that we’re doing and it can be really hard. That’s the me versus we inaction is like I need these dollars, I need these donors, I need the spotlight all of that versus a different mindset, which which we think of as a scarcity versus abundance mindset. Um, so what I was just explaining is an example of some scarcity thinking versus we want to spotlight this whole ecosystem of change we’ve got going on of which we are a piece. Um, there’s room to show how we’re connected to what our peers are doing. There’s enough dollars and donors to go around. It doesn’t have to be us who gets all 50 of those donors dollars. Maybe they give us five, and they give everybody else five to um and again, a de emphasis maybe on dollars, right? Folks have currency that goes outside of, you know, money. And how are you showing value for that? So, a lot of ways of like kind of de centering your organization in a healthy and healthy and productive way. So that’s one example of disrupting sort of best practices that we think about

[00:24:56.44] spk_5:
it. And that’s related to what you had said earlier about surrendering control. The point that nobody owns

[00:24:58.78] spk_2:
this.

[00:25:07.54] spk_5:
You have another one. That’s that’s very good de centering. Right? What else? Another another sort of mind shift that you want to encourage?

[00:25:38.44] spk_3:
Yeah, we had a whole section where we were talking about disrupting um dominant narratives, which I think morgan can speak to a little bit more. But dominant narratives are these sort of pervasive, like, the way we say things are the way we tell things, and the things that we assume that we are are all really sharing um movements are a great opportunity to really disrupt that and and form new narratives um that are healthier and that are um more progressive and are gonna frankly help us transform the world in the way we want to, I don’t know, morgan if you wanted to chime in.

[00:27:14.74] spk_1:
Yeah, I would just add as, like, a specific example, um you know, for us, when we’re talking about when G is talking about are the constituents in our programs and young people who are in our campaigns, You know, a lot of the work that we do is around shifting the narrative around the your audience cannot see this or cannot hear this or see it, but I’m using air quotes when I talk about the monolithic black girl, right? Like this and no community is monolithic, this is it. This means nothing, right? So what are you know, for us to break down that absurd premise? Um it requires us to really give opportunity to young people in our programs um to tell their unique story as they want to tell it. And so for us, our narrative shifting work looks like passing the mic. It’s not about me, the director of marketing storytelling, going to a rally and giving a really great speech. You know, it’s about young people going to that rally and them giving great speeches or speak in front of city council in new york, which we do quite frequently or talking to legislators across the country. You know, other types of campaigns that we’re building out right now. Video and social media storytelling campaigns that really allow us to present a breath of experiences and all those people are saying I fall somewhere on this black girlhood spectrum, This identity spectrum and my story may not look like this young person or that person or that person, but it is still important, it is still affected by the legislation that’s happening in this country and therefore it’s still relevant. Okay, I have

[00:27:16.64] spk_5:
a little uh, we’re going on in the background. I don’t know if you can hear that buzz, so yes, you can.

[00:27:24.44] spk_2:
Okay, sorry. Um All right, um

[00:27:30.64] spk_5:
let’s let’s leave it there. But Hannah, why don’t you just take us out with some last minute motivation? I I can see ego has to be, you know, checked at the door. You know, we’ve been talking about decentralization, de centering yourself and and your organization. Um so yeah, Hannah leave us with some last last, second last minute motivation.

[00:28:31.14] spk_3:
I have the perfect way to close this out and this is what we close our our presentation with was how important the role of a radical imagination is in helping develop movement messaging and helping you create that story that you want to tell and move folks towards action. I think it has taken a paraphrasing Adrian Marie Brown, who um wrote an emergent strategy, how it took somebody else’s imagination for this world that we have right now to come to fruition right for all of these structures and all of everything going on to happen. And we need to use our imagination if we want to create something different. And I think that if nowhere else that really radical imagination that proud, you know, proclamation of a future that we’re going to get to really belongs in movement messaging. Um so it’s more of an abstract ending note, but really important to use your imagination and be sharing, sharing your vision for the future. Unapologetically,

[00:28:51.74] spk_5:
that’s Hannah thomas, senior strategist at Big Duck also was morgan fletcher director of marketing and storytelling. A. G girls for gender equity, Hannah morgan, thank you both very much. Thanks so much.

[00:29:01.66] spk_3:
Thank you. Thanks tony

[00:29:13.64] spk_5:
Glad to have you and thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21. Ntc we’re sponsored by turn to communications turn hyphen two

[00:29:15.01] spk_2:
dot C o.

[00:30:36.54] spk_6:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications, you remember them, The Chronicle of philanthropy, the new york times, The Wall Street Journal, Usa today stanford Social Innovation review Oh, the Washington Post the Hill Cranes, nonprofit quarterly Forbes Market Watch. That’s where turn to clients have gotten exposure. You want that kind of press turn hyphen two dot c o. Your story is their mission. It’s time for Tony to take to the pleasantries, the podcast pleasantries have to come out. They haven’t been for some time. They’ve been dormant. They’ve been on hiatus for several weeks, but they’re back pleasantries to our podcast audience. U 13,000 plus listeners throughout the world. We’ve got listeners, yeah, we’ve got listeners in Germany um, where else besides north America? Certainly north America, we’ve got Canada and Mexico covered. Uh, so those go without saying not, not that we take the, not that we take the northern and southern neighbor listeners for granted. No, no, no, but they’re, they’re, it’s, it’s just kind of understood, you know, it’s, it’s tony-martignetti non profit radio

[00:30:40.45] spk_2:
You just know that

[00:30:56.64] spk_6:
all the north american countries are going to be represented. It’s, it’s just, it’s subsumed in the name. That’s that’s, that’s what it is. That that that’s what I mean to say. It’s subsumed. So we’ve got North America covered that. Subsumed going

[00:30:56.94] spk_2:
abroad. Oh,

[00:30:58.03] spk_5:
Germany.

[00:30:59.56] spk_2:
Um often checking

[00:32:42.74] spk_6:
in uh, italy France UK, certainly o u k. Those are the ones that come to mind and if you’re out there in other countries beyond those just named, let me know. I’d love to shut you out. Love to the pleasantries. The pleasantries. I’m grateful. I am grateful that you listen two nonprofit radio week after week. I’m glad the show brings you value. I hope it gives you actionable steps or things you can start thinking about to lead to action. That that’s what this is about. Right? So the pleasantries to you, our many, many podcast listeners, I’m grateful. That is Tony’s take two send in blue. It’s an all in one digital marketing platform with tools to build end to end digital campaigns that look professional are affordable and keep you organized. They do digital campaign marketing, that’s what we’re talking about. Most marketing software is designed for big companies and has enterprise level price tags. No, no, not here, sending blue’s price for nonprofits, it’s an easy to use marketing platform. They walk you through the steps of building a campaign. You want to try them out and get a free month, send him blue. Hit the listener landing page at tony dot M A slash send in blue. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for nonprofit radio Here is a farewell Maria Semple.

[00:32:46.74] spk_5:
It always has been my pleasure to welcome Maria simple to the show. Of course,

[00:32:52.15] spk_2:
month after month, year after

[00:32:53.54] spk_5:
year, many years.

[00:32:55.24] spk_6:
Uh, today it’s

[00:32:58.54] spk_5:
uh bittersweet to welcome Maria sample back to nonprofit

[00:33:04.74] spk_2:
radio for a farewell. You know her, she is the prospect

[00:33:06.98] spk_5:
finder, a trainer and speaker on prospect research.

[00:33:10.36] spk_2:
Her latest book is

[00:33:11.28] spk_5:
magnify your business tips tools and strategies

[00:33:17.84] spk_2:
for growing your business or your non profit she’s are dyin of dirt cheap and free.

[00:33:28.24] spk_5:
She has been for many years, she’s at the prospect finder dot com and at Maria Semple, I always used to

[00:33:29.06] spk_2:
say Maria, it’s a pleasure to welcome you back. It’s a little like I said bittersweet this time though,

[00:33:33.71] spk_5:
hello, hello and well you’re still welcome. You’re still very welcome. It’s just not so much of a pleasure that’s

[00:33:57.34] spk_0:
all. Uh, well thank you for having me back for a little bit of a farewell and you’re right, Tony. It is bitter sweet. Um, you know you and I have been talking in one way or another and having it recorded before the time of internet radio, we were doing some tele recordings, right? We would do recorded calls and that’s right. We had those phone

[00:34:01.68] spk_2:
calls. Tell us we did a few tele calls together about planned giving and prospect research. Yes,

[00:34:07.31] spk_0:
yeah. Yeah. Back back in the day when it was tele classes. Right.

[00:34:11.52] spk_6:
Right.

[00:34:12.44] spk_2:
Yeah.

[00:34:13.29] spk_5:
Yes. And then we

[00:34:14.47] spk_2:
did some, some conferences together.

[00:34:16.88] spk_5:
That’s right.

[00:34:17.70] spk_2:
Prospect

[00:34:29.34] spk_5:
research and planned giving. Um, and then it’s been many years on, on nonprofit radio you, it’s been like eight years or so. You’ve been with the show.

[00:34:30.32] spk_0:
Absolutely prospect

[00:34:31.99] spk_2:
research contributor.

[00:34:33.05] spk_5:
What’s

[00:34:33.91] spk_2:
going on? What’s going on in your professional life?

[00:36:18.53] spk_0:
Well, you know, my business, you know, in the last couple of years has expanded and, and uh, focused a little bit more, you know, like the title of my book Magnify Your Business. It’s really kind of focused a little more on online marketing, strategy, social media, email marketing linkedin and really um you know, expanding to beyond nonprofits as well. So I work with a lot of small businesses and financial advisors. Um and and I’ve been, you know, I pulled back a little bit, I’ve been, you know, having moved to uh beautiful crystal coast of north Carolina. I’ve been working more part time than full time as I was back in New Jersey. Um and I’m doing a ton of volunteering for a number of different organizations and capacities. And one of the most recent projects that I’m really excited about is expanding broadband. And you know, that’s a big topic right now, coincidentally, so last year I was invited to serve on a committee here in carter County to expand broadband opportunity um in underserved and not served at all regions believe it or not, there are pockets down east and so forth. They just don’t have any internet. Um, and so we saw in the last year how important it was to be able to stay connected. Um, and so through the carter at County Economic Development Foundation, um, I’m continue to serve on a committee that’s going to now be implementing some of the deficiencies in areas that were identified in the digital digital inclusion report, um, that that came out. So that’s one of the big projects.

[00:36:40.43] spk_5:
So you’re working more part time and that means you’re not going to be contributing prospect research wisdom as our deutschland of dirt, cheap and free on nonprofit radio So your, your focus is shifted

[00:36:46.61] spk_2:
a little more,

[00:37:02.03] spk_5:
little more business oriented, only part time, a lot of volunteer work, which I love because we only live 12 miles apart about so uh, helping you’re helping my community to, uh, we’re in the same county. Um All right. I

[00:37:02.74] spk_2:
understand that,

[00:37:04.34] spk_5:
so happy to hear it, but I understand

[00:37:07.83] spk_0:
and I’m serving as my H. O. A. Board president. Uh

[00:37:12.82] spk_5:
I hate H. O. S. Oh my God when I moved here uh Homeowners

[00:37:18.39] spk_2:
associations.

[00:37:22.83] spk_5:
Yeah. So your uh your those people who say you can’t you can’t put this color on your door and you can’t hang this on your windows at christmas time. Is that you?

[00:37:30.13] spk_0:
Unfortunately. Unfortunately I I didn’t I unfortunately. Yes, there are there are rules when you live in an H. O. A. Community, so either you live in one or you don’t.

[00:37:43.53] spk_2:
Alright, alright. I don’t mean you’re the president,

[00:37:47.73] spk_5:
you’re going to be the scrooge time, your lights are too bright or whatever. You

[00:37:52.75] spk_0:
know, we don’t get into lighting because it’s all common area lighting. It’s a condo complex. It’s not single family homes.

[00:38:00.42] spk_5:
Right. Right. Well, people can outline their windows with christmas lights or something. We

[00:38:04.94] spk_0:
allow that. That’s fine.

[00:38:06.72] spk_5:
Okay.

[00:38:08.26] spk_0:
We’ll have christmas lights. Oh,

[00:38:10.63] spk_2:
all right. I’m getting a sense of why I know I

[00:38:14.97] spk_0:
paint your door any color you want to paint your door? There’s a specific color. You have to paint your door

[00:38:19.73] spk_6:
specific color for

[00:38:20.89] spk_0:
everybody. All right.

[00:38:22.82] spk_5:
All right, madam, President? Yeah, I’m not uh

[00:38:25.92] spk_2:
personally I’m not too keen on the

[00:38:37.62] spk_5:
U. S. But I I understand you you bought knowing that you were part of an H. O. A. So I guess you might as well be active in it so you can insert some degree of reasonableness. I hope. Yes,

[00:38:41.87] spk_0:
I hope. Well, I’m also the chair of the social committee. So I’m all about the fun.

[00:38:46.82] spk_5:
Okay, well, but if you harass people too badly on their door color, you may not, you may have zero people at your social events. So activity may offset the other. We’ll see. We’ll see how those two things are playing in

[00:39:26.02] spk_0:
the nonprofit space. Also tony You know, I think I’ve mentioned to you before, there’s something called the Crystal Coast nonprofit network that exists. And uh, we’ve, I’ve been facilitating the meetings through zoom um, for the, over the last year. Uh, and so it’s starting in september, we’re going to start meeting again in person. So you should really come out and get to know some of those nonprofits here in carter county. Be fun to have you attend?

[00:39:31.02] spk_2:
I’d love to, I, yeah, you

[00:39:31.44] spk_5:
mentioned that before. I think

[00:39:32.37] spk_2:
I followed up and then

[00:39:34.22] spk_5:
I didn’t, I’m

[00:39:35.61] spk_2:
not sure what happened after

[00:39:57.22] spk_0:
that. Well anyway, september. We’re taking a break, not meeting in uh, july and august, we just met this week not meeting july and august meeting again. September. And uh, so that’s a nice, nice network of non profits and I launched a website for them, created a site and launched it for them so that they had a space online. Um, so yeah, I’ll send you the link.

[00:39:59.17] spk_2:
Okay. Crystal

[00:39:59.81] spk_5:
Coast. Alright. Crystal Coast

[00:40:01.31] spk_2:
nonprofits. All right.

[00:40:02.71] spk_5:
Yeah.

[00:40:03.20] spk_2:
Alright, Maria, Well, you know, I’m grateful for all the hours we spent together over eight

[00:40:09.17] spk_5:
years.

[00:40:15.71] spk_2:
You helping nonprofits understand prospect research, how important it is. It’s, it’s, it’s so much richer than a lot of people realize it goes way beyond google search way way and

[00:40:21.39] spk_5:
people have been following,

[00:40:23.61] spk_2:
you know that? Yeah. So I guess I can just say thank you for everything you contributed for, for

[00:40:28.37] spk_5:
all our listeners

[00:40:29.26] spk_2:
over so many years. Thank you very much. You’re

[00:40:31.49] spk_0:
very welcome and thanks so much for having me. It’s been great, great fun.

[00:40:35.53] spk_5:
It’s always been a pleasure. Today is

[00:40:37.18] spk_2:
a little tough, but

[00:40:42.51] spk_5:
up until today it’s always been a pleasure. Alright, alright. She’s Maria Semple, she’s still the prospect find her, but just part time and more business oriented.

[00:40:48.11] spk_2:
Her sight, the

[00:40:49.60] spk_5:
prospect finder dot com and at Maria

[00:40:53.61] spk_2:
Semple. Thank you Maria and so long,

[00:40:55.51] spk_0:
so long now take care

[00:41:40.31] spk_6:
next week let’s try to get amY sample ward or Gene Takagi back. I’m working on that. If not, they’ll be up soon and next week will be more from 21. Ntc if you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications. You remember them? You’ve heard of them a couple times. Pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. And by sending Blue the only, all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in Blue. Creative Producer is Claire

[00:41:52.71] spk_4:
Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by scott Stein. Thank you for that. Affirmation scotty. You’re with me next week for nonprofit radio big non profit ideas for the other 90

[00:41:58.99] spk_6:
5%

[00:42:05.41] spk_4:
Go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for June 7, 2021: Nonprofit Partnerships & Partnerships With African American Churches

My Guests:

Taylor Leake & Jack Valor: Nonprofit Partnerships

Our 21NTC panel reminds you: You don’t have to do your work alone. You can increase your exposure by promoting the work of other orgs, and even fundraise in partnership with other nonprofits. They’re Taylor Leake with Corporate Accountability and Jack Valor at Mal Warwick Donordigital.

 

 

 

 

Aneta Lee & Oliver Richmond: Partnerships With African American Churches

Now that you’re motivated to partner up, look to Black churches. Aneta Lee and Oliver Richmond help you understand the idiosyncrasies of church culture and how to cultivate a relationship. Aneta is from Aneta Uplifts and Oliver is with Kingdom Partners. This is also from 21NTC.

 

 

 

 

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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
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[00:02:46.34] spk_3:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. We’re back to regular energy low. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with Dyskinesia if you moved me with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Non profit partnerships. Our 21 NTC panel reminds you you don’t have to do your work alone. You can increase your exposure by promoting the work of other org’s and even fundraise in partnership with other nonprofits. They’re taylor leak with corporate accountability and Jack Valor at Mall Warwick, donor digital and partnerships with African american churches now that you’re motivated to partner up Look to black churches, Anita lee and Oliver. Richmond help you understand the idiosyncrasies of church culture and how to cultivate a relationship. Anita is from Anita uplifts and Oliver is with Kingdom Partners. This is also from 21 NTC. You see how the show is put together here. It doesn’t just happen. You see this pervasive partnership theme running through which is what makes it pervasive, it’s all, it’s all coordinated. It’s all thought out On Tony’s take two planned giving accelerator. We’re sponsored by turn to communications Pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s a genuine pleasure to welcome a new sponsor, send in blue the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue kicking off our partnership theme show here is non profit partnerships. Welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 NTC the 2021 nonprofit technology conference. We’re sponsored at 21 NTC by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot C. O. My guests now are tailor leak and Jack Valor Taylor is Digital director at corporate accountability and Jack is senior account executive at Mall Warwick donor. Digital Tell her Jack, welcome to nonprofit radio

[00:02:57.24] spk_1:
Thanks very nice to you. Pleasure

[00:02:58.44] spk_3:
and Taylor, I should say welcome back. Welcome back. Have you a previous uh, previous ntc coverage.

[00:03:05.11] spk_1:
Absolutely.

[00:03:26.44] spk_3:
Your session is what we accomplished together, building new and inclusive non profit partnerships. So who wants to start by just reminding us that we do not have to do our work alone. We can have, we can have help, who would like to start. Okay, fine. I’m gonna pick Jack, you start

[00:04:42.94] spk_4:
or um, so I think that really we came up with this concept because corporate accountability does a lot of great work partnering with a lot of wonderful organizations that have missions that are similar to theirs. Um, and we found that they were able to accomplish not only what they wanted to accomplish in ways that they didn’t have the capacity or resources to do otherwise, but also reach out to organizations that didn’t, you know, have the resources themselves to really boost their own missions and help in ways that they wanted to be able to help facilitate and grow organizations that they really believed in. So we wanted to kind of spread that message and talk through ways that organizations could partner and do things that would really change the world for the better, um, in reach out to each other and in, um, in ways that they might not expect.

[00:04:49.74] spk_3:
And, and taylor you can even, uh, increase your own exposure. The organizations don’t exposure by promoting the work of others.

[00:05:32.44] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that was one of the things that really stood out as we were developing this. And one of the reasons we came to this idea was, you know, in our experience, we found that these partnerships aren’t just beneficial for both organizations, sort of as a, as a one plus one, but actually it was, it was adding even more to our work when we partnered with other groups. So for instance, we did a giving Tuesday campaign with, partnered with a group in flint called flint rising. And we found that even though we were basically fundraising and giving half of the gifts that we brought in to flint rising, we were raising more, even giving away half than we had in previous years without a partnership like

[00:05:43.03] spk_3:
that. You for giving away half than you had when you when you were on your own.

[00:05:53.74] spk_1:
Yeah, exactly. So I think it’s sort of a net positive and you know, I think we are doing all we can to reject this idea that there’s sort of a zero sum, right? It’s more of a mindset of spreading the wealth and everybody being able to lift each other

[00:06:19.24] spk_3:
up rising tide, raises all boats or whatever metaphors we want to use. Well, whatever storms can this take that? That’s that’s outstanding example giving Tuesday. What other forms can this take, where you can improve your own outcomes by working with and promoting the work of others?

[00:07:27.74] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean, one other example that we talked about, um, and I think Jack, you had a couple of really good examples from other organizations as well. Um, but we, uh, we also do a lot of work with coalition actions. So that’s sort of more on the on the advocacy and list building side. But this is essentially a tactic where you can start a petition and then invite a whole bunch of other groups to participate with you. Um, and not only is that a way for you and your partners who are working together to drive folks to this petition to grow their email lists, but for us, you know, it’s been, you know, are the organization, I work for corporate accountability. We have some pretty sort of niche, complicated issues. Um, and so this is a way for us not just to sort of like gather a bunch more petition signatures, but also sort of get our analysis and our campaigns and our ideas out there to a bunch more folks by getting other groups to promote petitions that we have developed to their membership as well.

[00:07:43.44] spk_3:
Okay, Cool petition drives Jack. You have, you have examples. I love these. I want, I want folks to realize that there’s a lot of possibilities around partnering and improving your own outcomes.

[00:08:09.94] spk_4:
Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, uh, one example that I think worked out really, really well is that, um, an organization that I work with simple virus fund there, a small local organization in the, they work help helping save and protect and restore uh, redwood lands in the santa Cruz Mountains

[00:08:13.76] spk_3:
and say the name of the organization again, just a little slower.

[00:08:17.37] spk_4:
Yeah. Semper environs Fund some

[00:08:20.95] spk_3:
semper environs.

[00:08:32.74] spk_4:
Mhm. Yeah, it’s a latin word that is for redwood trees. Um, it’s very, um, very, very specific. Yeah, exactly. Um,

[00:08:35.71] spk_0:
uh,

[00:09:20.94] spk_4:
so they, um, they partnered at, at the time, in august, there was a big fire in one of their parks, um, wildfire that happened during a time when there were wild fires all over California. And um, it was the very first part that they developed. Um, they partnered with California state parks as well as save the Redwoods League to um, bring together a bunch of donors who were very passionate about that park and wanted to save it and restore it back to its former glory. Um, They were able to raise throughout the entirety of the year, um, A ton more money because of that partnership. Um, they were able to increase their revenue by 152% and their gifts by 98% just through having that partnership with those organizations and spreading the word altogether.

[00:09:43.34] spk_3:
Jack, what do those campaigns look like? Give us the insight is every piece co branded? Does every piece talk about the work of the other and, or, and how the work overlaps? And what does that, what does that look like?

[00:11:01.34] spk_4:
I think, you know, it can be different. And that’s something that, you know, we definitely wanted to talk about when we put this together is that it really depends on how the organizations want to make this work, you have to come together and say, you know, what are we looking for? What do we want to accomplish here and um what do we want to, how do we want to come to the table? You know, do we want everything to be co branded? Like you’re saying, do we want um to just mention one another um in messages or do we want to um just kind of one time mention and then go about, you know, the rest of the campaign as usual. Um So you have to definitely agree upon all of your terms before the partnership even starts. Um So that you know, um you know what your expectations are and then that way no one gets hurt uh in the end so that you’re not not meeting those expectations?

[00:11:04.24] spk_3:
Okay, cool. Is there another example you have?

[00:12:21.34] spk_4:
Uh Yeah, so I think that um Mhm, pull up my notes um with World Animal Protection, which is another organization that I’ve been lucky enough to work with. Um They usually work with sanctuaries in lots of countries around the globe to save abused animals that can no longer live in the wild because they’ve been you know, in captivity um doing lots of terrible jobs or um you know, having lots of um difficult things put upon them. Uh We were able to create a giving Tuesday campaign around specifically raising money for sanctuaries um and the sanctuary campaign, because it um focused on those sanctuaries and on providing animals um direct money for them and for their needs, Brought in 161% increase in gifts and a 230% increase in revenue. Um

[00:12:24.84] spk_3:
And that’s of course that’s after sharing, Right? These numbers are incredible because it’s like over well over 100% increases.

[00:12:51.44] spk_4:
Mhm. Yeah, it’s really, really helpful too. You know, know that know what your audience cares about, know that they are looking for something different or something um that where they can really make a bigger difference and sometimes they are interested in um you know, they’re like, oh if if I can give here then I’m giving to two different organizations that are really, really wonderful and they’re meeting the um the needs of multiple different types of people or causes at the same time. So why wouldn’t I

[00:13:19.54] spk_3:
tell her somebody who was in one of these organizations? What like what detailed advice can you give for folks who are thinking about? It’s kind of a collaboration like maybe even just start with who might you collaborate with?

[00:16:50.84] spk_1:
Sure. Yeah. I think, you know, sometimes there are some pretty some pretty obvious uh places to start, right? So groups that you you know frequently partner with or that you would work with, you know, that either share sort of the kind of work that you do or share a mission and similar with you. But I think for us, one of the biggest things that we’ve actually had success with is finding groups that share our mission and share our work but have very different, different tactics are different strengths. So, you know, corporate accountability, we do a lot of sort of national and international policy based work. Um and we have had some of our best partnerships with really small state or local groups that are really focused on um grassroots or community organizing. Um and I think the reason it works is, you know, we’re able to sort of bring the bigger sort of systemic analysis and the policies and the sort of like the heavy big stuff, and then we’re able to point to these groups to say, you know, this is literally this is what how this impacts individual people’s lives, and this is how they’re going about working on fixing this, this isn’t just like a sort of zoomed out policy discussion, this is like a thing that is about real people. Um so we’ve had some really good success sort of partnering with groups that have, have different, have different approaches and different strengths to us. Um and I think those those can make really, really fruitful partnerships, um just because, you know, you’re you’re sort of complementing one another, I think, you know, you can I’ve we’ve had some really good partnerships with other sort of national policy oriented groups as well, but I do think that’s one place that I think it has been a little bit surprising to me is like actually like finding those groups that have a really different Thing that they do 2.2 is important. And then for us, you know, when we, when we started doing some of this work, one of the biggest pieces that was really important to us was um really being mindful of racial equity and equity overall. So we’re really approaching this as a way to sort of resource the movement. We’ve, you know, we started corporate accountability started Over 40 years ago with the nestle boycott in the late 70s. Um, and so that was a campaign where we were working primarily with organizations in uh, in South America. Um, and working to stop nestle from marketing infant formula in communities that it was really harmful for infant formula to be used and infants were getting sick and dying. Um, so we’ve always had this dynamic where we are a group that’s based in the Global North, in in the US, but we’re primarily, or often working with groups in the Global South and communities of color. So there’s there’s a built in power dynamic there that were always sort of aware of. And I think one of the, one of the things we really strive to do with these partnerships is to seek out, you know, black and uh of colour led organisations and Global South led organizations that we can work with and we can resource because oftentimes we have a much higher access to those resources than these other groups that are doing incredible work that you deserve this as much more more than we do. So that’s another another thing that we’ve really focused on. You know, that’s not centered everybody but

[00:17:12.24] spk_3:
corporate accountability has centered equity. It sounds like in probably across all your work. But and so it just becomes part of your D. N. A. And absolutely you have it in mind as you or it’s an objective as you as you look for these partnerships

[00:17:25.24] spk_1:
ellen-leikind

[00:17:57.14] spk_3:
How about some advice around you know like sticky points? Uh some problem issues, you know you trust your partners of course but things are gonna come up, you know no no agreement can anticipate everything or you know whether it’s a verbal agreement or a written agreement. And how do you how do you navigate some of the tricky parts like maybe somebody put something out that doesn’t quite describe your work correctly or you know things like that or whatever it might be. Oh that was it could be either one I was thinking of taylor because he’s been involved in these, but it could be either one of you, I don’t care if somebody step up this time.

[00:19:41.54] spk_1:
Yeah, I’m curious if Jack has other examples, but you know, I think, I think for us, um, really the biggest, the biggest thing is like, as Jack mentioned earlier, having agreements and having conversations in sort of, in the beginning, you know, really laying out what’s expected, what roles are going to be for each organization, uh, sort of how you expect things to look, how money is going to get dispersed if you’re doing joint fundraising, you know, sort of, all of those nitty gritty details. Um, and then, you know, it’s really, it’s really just communication, you know, checking in a ton. Um, you know, we frequently will do a whole slew of emails to try and promote some of these fundraising campaigns that are joined. And, you know, we build in a step where we literally just send the copy of the emails over to the partners and have them review them, um, just to make sure we’re being super upfront and saying like, does this sound good to you? Are we describing your work appropriately? Like, you know, is there a better way you would want to say this? Um, and so, you know, that, that I think is key for for us is just, is just that constant communication is really the most important thing. And I think, you know, even before that, just sort of building building deep relationships, um, and and sort of like cementing that trust before you are trying to jump in on something that’s big, like joint fundraising campaign where tens of thousands of dollars could be at stake. Great. Um, so it’s definitely not like a starting point in your relationship. It’s something that you want to, you want to build towards. Okay

[00:19:45.04] spk_3:
Jack, anything you want to, you want to add there about sticking points or you feel like taylor covered?

[00:21:17.34] spk_4:
Yeah, he mostly covered it. I would say, you know, to your point, tony um, about, you know, if you put something, someone put something out there and it doesn’t really meet, um, anything about your organization or what have you. I think, you know, talking about your brand, that’s something we kind of speak our touch on in our session. Um, uh, making sure that they have all of that information, your logos, um, all of that so that everything is laid out so that they’re following that information as well. That’s part of the initial communication that should happen. Um, so that they’re not, you know, using words that you would never use in your communications, things like that. Um, and I think another piece here is that you make sure that not that you’re treading lately, but that you’re working really entirely in partnership, in your in your, uh, coming to it with equity and, um, and real conversation in mind. Um, and knowing that there’s likely no harm meant from your partner because you you you want to not only build that partnership for now, but build it for the future. Um, who knows how beneficial it could be in, um, you know, the future campaigns, um, things that could come up where you could work together on something that could really, um, open yourselves up for some really, really amazing opportunities. So it makes sense to not do something that could cause some of that rift

[00:21:39.74] spk_3:
you all had. Right expanding lists by exchanging swapping is one of you more accustomed more acquainted with that than the other?

[00:21:44.64] spk_1:
Yeah, Probably me,

[00:21:49.64] spk_3:
Jack. Okay. Yeah.

[00:23:20.24] spk_1:
So we do this a ton. Um, and it’s a really, it’s a really great tactic. Um, it is something that we use Action Network, so it’s something that’s built into Action Network as a sort of email tool set and advocacy tools that not to not to bust market them, but they are the ones that have built this tool. Um, and essentially what it allows is when you set up a petition, um, you can invite other groups to also promote that petition. Um, and once you send them sort of a unique link for them to promote the petition with, um, it automatically tracks sort of where activists are coming from, and then automatically shares a proportion of the folks who signed that petition with your partners. Um, so the expectation is, you know, if if I am partnering with another group and they join and they send an email out to their list and get 100 new folks to join to sign that petition, That they would get out of the total pot of folks who take action 100 new folks to add to their list. Um So it’s sort of it’s a great way both to get more signatures than you would stand alone, right? You know, if your group can get x number of petition signatures inviting a couple other groups will get you a whole bunch more. Um but it also it also is a way to sort of for everybody to sort of grow their email lists and speak to folks who like actually care about your topics because they’re signing a petition that is based on your mission and your issues.

[00:23:46.74] spk_3:
Yeah. Cool. And of course it’s disclosed to people who sign right that they’ll they’ll they’ll receive materials from or however you were at this other, you know, the other group or groups. Okay. Any other ways any other ways of doing this besides petition drives?

[00:23:51.44] spk_1:
I mean that’s the sort of the main one I’m curious, Jack if if there

[00:23:55.60] spk_3:
you, have you seen this in other settings

[00:25:22.14] spk_4:
um in terms of um yeah, it’s mostly petitions or pledges, things like that, just mainly because it’s the easiest way to get another um organizations permission. The other way that I’ve seen it. Er Sorry, another um person’s permission to join a list. Another way that I’ve seen it done is when uh organizations will sponsor each other’s emails across um email. So one organization corporate accountability would say sponsor flint risings, email and they would just send flint risings email to their list. Um And have um flint rising whatever content that is um Those folks um people, corporate accountabilities folks just do whatever that action is for flint rising. I’ve also seen some organizations come together on things like quizzes, games, things like that. Um I put together a whole like mhm uh bracket for an organization before that was like these items like which one is the best? And then it ended up you know with a winner and it was like a couple of weeks long. Um And it ended up being really really successful where a bunch of different organizations were like fighting for which thing was the best on like social media and stuff. So

[00:29:18.84] spk_3:
okay collaborations partnerships, ventures, you don’t have to do your work alone. Right? All right, we’ll leave it there. All right. They are taylor leak. Digital director of corporate accountability and Jack Valor, senior account executive at Mall Warwick donor. Digital telephone jack. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. And thanks to all of you for being with 20 martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 ntc The 2021 nonprofit technology conference. We’re sponsored at 21 ntc by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. Where would you like to be heard? Use outlets, conferences, podcasts, blogs, editorials. That’s all earned media and turn to can help you get it because they’ve got the relationships with the media outlets. What about your own media though? Owned media turn to can help you improve that because your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O. It’s time for Tony to take two planned giving accelerator. The next class Kicks off on July one. People in the first class that started in january, they already started getting gifts in month three and by month four there were multiple gifts at multiple members of that very first class. So within only three and in some cases four months of a 12 month program, the gift commitments already coming in. If you join me in the July one class, you could have gifts by Halloween, This could happen for you too. Planned giving accelerator. It’s the online membership community that I’ve created. I teach you step by step, how to get your planned giving program started. We have monthly live teachings and ask me anything sessions and a podcast. Just for members. There’s resources like templates and checklists. All the stuff I was about to say all the ship, let’s keep it. It’s the stuff well, you know, I just said it. So all this, all the things you need To get your plan giving program launched in 2021 and like I said, join, join in, July joined the July class. You could have gifts by Halloween. It happened for members of the first class. So Where you get the info for the July one class, it’s all at planned giving accelerator.com. Check it out if you’re not in planned giving, I will get you started and if that applies to you, if you’re not in planned giving, I hope to join me for the July one class. That is tony steak too. Here is partnerships with African American churches. Welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 NTC, the 2021 nonprofit technology conference. We’re sponsored at 21 NTC by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot C. O. With me now is Oliver Richmond is president at Kingdom Putnam

[00:29:25.84] spk_0:
Oliver. Welcome. Thank you for having me on tony I appreciate

[00:30:07.14] spk_3:
it, my pleasure. It’s a very interesting topic. Uh we’re hopefully going to be joined by others who I will introduce as they come in. Now, Oliver joined on time and I don’t want to cut this segment short so we’re gonna get started. You’re topic, There’s someone right now there’s Aneta. Okay, we’re bringing in Anita lee Aneta welcome. We’re already recording live. So please join the conversation with me now is in Italy also she’s chief digital specialist at anoeta uplifts LLC and I had already introduced Oliver Richmond and your topic is Black Church a different kind of non profit

[00:30:09.54] spk_2:
Yes. So let me clarify just a little bit. It is Anita, it’s pronounced Anita,

[00:30:28.94] spk_3:
Thank you very much Anita. Okay, thank you. Okay, let’s stick with you Anita. Well not right. You know what let’s give it to Oliver because he came he was right on time. So I mean okay. Okay thank you Anita. Oliver. What you know black churches. Um I don’t go to one. What do you want folks like me to know about black churches?

[00:31:03.94] spk_0:
Black churches are the heart and soul of the black community. If you go back and look at history, that was the only institution that blacks own coming out of slavery. And the black church has been the one delivered services, tutoring, mentoring, food, spiritual help over the years. They have just been a pillar and helping keep those communities safe and all the good things came out of the black church in the black community.

[00:32:02.84] spk_3:
All the good things came out of the black church. All right. Yeah. I’ve had lots of guests on through the years. I’ve been doing this podcast over 10 years. And mostly they would they would bring up black churches when when it was uh you know, like a program they were trying to carry out like a couple of cases. It was something medical and uh I don’t remember. It wasn’t research, but it was some nonprofit work. And they had emphasized the importance of working through the churches to get community buy in for the for the program that they were trying to they were trying to carry out in the in the community. Um So I’ve heard about this through the years that the black churches are critical and and the and the pastors can be sort of conduits to the to the community. Am I standing there? Okay.

[00:32:05.94] spk_2:
Yeah.

[00:32:07.20] spk_4:
Over the

[00:32:56.14] spk_0:
years, the black pastors and leaders, if you look through civil rights, all different things, they’ve been the ones who have stood up for the community because they don’t have to worry about losing their jobs. Um, so so they stood up for the community and they’re respected as leaders, no matter what size their churches and the black community expects the black pastors to be involved in the community where some churches, the pastor just preached, uh, over the bible, priests teach and then they’re done. But the black church, they’re expected to be involved in the causes if it’s gangs, if it’s feeding health, whatever it might be, they’re the ones that look to, to bring that information deliberate to the people into the community.

[00:32:58.94] spk_3:
And you did, You sounded a little, a little skeptical about the way I said it. You said, well, you said it. Okay. But what, tell me more, what, what, what, what do you want to say to me?

[00:35:54.44] spk_2:
Uh, yeah. Um, I think that you’re absolutely right. Um and when you’ve spoken to many people over the years, yeah, it’s critical um, that black churches are involved, but I think it’s it’s only a small piece, I think that the general world nonprofit community um only see black churches within the lens of whatever program that they’re deciding to do instead of recognizing black church as the literal pinnacle of the black experience. So when you think about, um, our celebrities, our stars, our um, our millionaires and billionaires that that that that made the country looks up to, many of those people have started in the black church. Like if you think about any major musical star in any genre, from, you know, gospel and soul to R and B, even into rap and hip hop, you will find that all of those artists, most of those artists, how to start in the black Church, even if they’re talking about guns and drugs and shooting and sex, they all have uh start in the black church. And I think that that was the reason why I, you know, I intend to allow me to do this because um, from politics and, and from, from health, from business, our major ivy League, historically black colleges and universities are hBc use. Many of them started in the basement of a black church. The obvious one of the more famous ones, Morehouse, um, where dr martin Luther King got his degree and Spelman, which was the female counterpart to Morehouse, was started in the basement of friendship baptist church in Atlanta Georgia. So, and I’m sure you’ll probably have, you know, you can probably hear stories in other cities as well. So I think that that’s what I wanted the nonprofits to see and to understand that were just that, that the black church and the experience of black church is not a place where you can go get your program started and you can hit your demographic. It really is a place where the, the intensity of the culture and the whole meaning the essence of African american experience is based. Mhm.

[00:36:15.33] spk_3:
Thank you. And Anita, you want us to think about partnering with African american churches? That’s the the, I mean, yeah, that’s the whole purpose of the your session. By the way, I have some work going on. You might hear a song in the background. I hope it’s not hope. It’s not too annoying. No

[00:36:15.64] spk_2:
worries.

[00:36:17.13] spk_3:
Can you hear me? You hear me over it? Can you I hear you over it? Okay, good. Okay. Um, yeah, so you want to encourage us to uh non profits to be partnering with the churches.

[00:37:41.63] spk_2:
Right? And not only do we want the nonprofits to partner with churches, We want you, we wanted nonprofits to understand the uniqueness and the idiosyncrasies that that comes with partnering with Black Church, which is reason it was called Black Church a different kind of nonprofit. Yes. It is a non profit in the essence that it’s five oh one C three and you know, things of that nature or it might not even be five oh one C three. Um, it’s structured around providing those social services, um, but it does not necessarily operate as, you know, your typical nonprofit with a board and you know, and in programs and things of that nature. And so, um, in order to have an effective partnership, um, I wanted nonprofits to understand this is the essence of what Black Church is and these are the ways that she provide or create uh, successful institute, sustainable partnerships. While you’re trying to fulfill your mission for your non profit Oliver

[00:37:47.53] spk_3:
can we, can we go to you to acquaint us with some of the, the idiosyncrasies that Anita is referring to.

[00:39:17.82] spk_0:
Yes. One of the things we work with a ton of black churches and white churches, but one of the things that you want to do is visit the church, see what kind of things they’re doing. I mean, you can look at the announcement, say if they got kids doing announcements, they’re talking a lot about you. You know that church probably want to do things with youth. That’s their where their heart is at. So as you, as you meet people try to meet people in their leadership and if you can get a meeting with the pastor, go there, Get a meeting with the pastor. You talk 10%, let him talk 90 and asked him to share his vision in his heart for the community and that out of that conversation, you’re going to see the things that he’s excited about it that he want to do. And your role is when your partner with them engaging them. If you’re doing youth and maybe they’re passionate about prison ministry, you try to connect this to somebody that can help you with prison ministry and you bring a lot of credibility to them. And guess what if you work with you, he’ll connect you to a pastor that has a big, nice youth program. I want to work with you from the community. So you got to hear their heart and listen to them and you might have the greatest thing that you want to do, but it might not be a fit because just like people, churches have capacity for a few things that they can do well. And you got to seek those out when you engage them. Uh, and you have a lot more success when you do that.

[00:40:41.71] spk_3:
It’s time for a break. Send in blue. It’s an all in one digital marketing platform with tools to build end to end digital campaigns that look professional, They’re affordable and keep you organized. So we’re talking about digital campaign marketing. Most marketing software is designed for large companies and comes with the enterprise level pricing. Send in Blue is priced for nonprofits. It’s an easy to use marketing platform that walks you through the steps of building a campaign like step by step, like playing, giving accelerators step by step, try out, sending blue and get a free month. Hit the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. It’s aptly named now you thought the baku but loads got obliterated when I didn’t invoke them after Tony’s take too, didn’t you? You were wondering, I’ve got your back, we’ve got boo koo but loads more time for partnerships with african american churches Anita, you want to elaborate on more of the idiosyncrasies folks should be aware of. I

[00:42:13.20] spk_2:
think, uh, no, I think Oliver is very, you know, and the reason why I had him on our panel is because he is the embodiment of the cross sectional of not only with black church and white church and also with black church and, and non profits. And so, um, I have to say like during our session, we did have someone that posed the question of the fact that they are not christian, uh, they’re not black and so they were concerned as to whether or not they would be able to, you know, attend church service. And uh, and I want to bring this out, Oliver because it just makes sense. Um, he said, you don’t have to be a christian to attend church, you can attend church, you don’t have to be a christian to attend church. And so you, you know, and so it’s just important that, um, just like a nonprofit has a mission. Churches have a mission, right? And so even though most of them, the main mission is saving souls and um, and, and, and provide, you know, providing the, spreading the gospel of jesus, that’s the main mission. But to Oliver’s point, you know, different churches have different sort of passion projects, just like the nonprofit has a passion project. So you’re not going to see the environmental non profit doing stuff with prison, right? Because that’s not their mission, There’s is saving the environment, Right? And so, um, it’s that research and that intentional research by visiting that church is where you will learn what’s a good fit for your organization. And then also partnering up

[00:42:54.70] spk_3:
Oliver, it sounds like the pastor is really the key, like sort of the ceo of the church. You have any other advice about getting his or her attention, You know, you said listen, listen 90% and talk 10% before we have twice as many years and only one or two layers in one mouth. But what other advice is, you know, like as you’re just trying to introduce yourself before you, before you, you know, before you, before you try to visit the church, just trying to get that,

[00:43:05.70] spk_0:
how

[00:43:07.05] spk_3:
we’ll

[00:44:07.29] spk_0:
find out who, who some of the key leaders are. You can go to their website, uh, even look at the brochure and find out who some of the key leaders are and talk with them and see if they can give you a warm introduction to the pastor. Another one the key points is, And I made this mistake years ago, I’ve been working with churches 27 years, particularly black churches wherever the pastor points you too go follow up in that direction. Uh, because sometimes you want to just get to the past. Or maybe he might give you a phone conversation and say go talk to tony and you might not tony Know that Tony is his right hand man. He’s going to rely on tony or whether we should engage in his partnership and do this program. So sometimes people try to get to the pastor, but he might have someone else that he wants you to work with and then they’ll share the big idea. He’ll rely on them. So whatever the rescue send you going, that direction followed them.

[00:44:11.49] spk_3:
Anything else Anita you want to add about trying to make that, get that first introduction that, that break that ice.

[00:46:38.58] spk_2:
Well, just to keep in mind, um, uh, that depending on the denomination, which is brings in the intricacies of the fact of, you know, now and, and that’s just protestant, the whole protestant religion totally right. You got all these different denominations and sections and districts or whatever. Um, but that’s on the onus of the nonprofit professional to do their particular research and to understand that um, one to Oliver’s point when they pointed to that person to go ahead and and, and engage, but also know in different situations. The pastor may not necessarily be the like the decision maker, right? They maybe they might not be the one that is the one that may, he may be a part of it, right? But it might be the trustee board. Um, it might be the deacon’s board, it might be, you know, some other institution. It might be the superintendent. That is the one that really has the quote unquote power to engage the church in, in, in partnerships. And so, um, that’s just, you know, an additional thing to kind of consider. And then, of course, you know, and in that vein, as I’m thinking about it, that kind of, you know, put that, that might make the nonprofit professional a little bit more comfortable because it’s almost like talking to a board, right? It’s, it’s, you know, as the other nonprofits, like here’s the board and they’re the one that makes the decisions and some denominations are set up like that. Some are totally not the ending the beginning and the end Alpha and omega comes from the past. So it’s just just an additional step. Um, you know, once you’ve, you know, visit the church and maybe, you know, like I did a little research, checking out the website, maybe attending a service or maybe not attend the service, attend an event. The church is having a volunteer. Um, no one’s gonna turn around and turn away a volunteer, no matter what. Right. That’s, that’s not probably one or one. So, you know, volunteering for something and you, you kind of get a sense of who’s, you know, who’s the kind of the one that’s kind of running the programs and, and, and making the decisions. So yeah,

[00:46:46.68] spk_3:
I needed your work at uplift. Uh, it sounded to me like it was the intersection of black churches and technology.

[00:46:54.58] spk_2:
It is, it is um, it was it’s basically, uh, my new social entrepreneurship one out of the, um, my, my own sort of personal mission around digital inclusion and um, in digital inclusion efforts and the fact that I truly believe that churches um, can be a place of opportunity when we’re talking about closing the digital divide. Now, I’ll be honest with you Tony. I’m not only am I trying to get tech folks and nonprofits to see churches as places of opportunity. I’m trying to work on the churches as well to try to get them to understand that this is a different or new evolution of ministry for them. So that’s kind of kind of my personal mission and cause and ministry, if you will.

[00:48:14.87] spk_3:
So I trying to expand everybody’s circles where they find the intersection between them and and end up doing good work for for all the communities. Yes. All right. We still got some good time together. A good amount of time together. What, what, what else would either of you like? Talk about other questions you got from your session or something else you covered in your session that we haven’t talked about yet, throw it open to

[00:49:41.37] spk_0:
you. I think one of the things tony really helped get engaged is support them. I’ll give you a prime example of a couple of quick examples when, when the virus hit and shut down everything. We partner with a technology group to bring hotspots online, uh, notebooks with urban black churches And got them online so they can get giving online. They didn’t have the technology, they didn’t know what to do, but we’ll never helped 40 of them. So guess what? I can pick up the phone anytime and call those pastors directly and say, hey, let’s look at doing this. I didn’t ask him for anything, didn’t want anything, but if you can help serve them another example, uh, it was a water shortage in Mississippi pastor said Oliver can you help get some water? I said, well let me send you a check and said no, no don’t send me a check because I got to go get the water. I need you to bring over the cases of water. So guess what? I went to Sam’s couldn’t get as much water because only so much in the car and I can push it. But guess what? Now our relationship is deeper because I was able to help a need that he was trying to fulfill to take a truckload of water down. Uh, and then, so now when I call them up with something that we want to do with his church or in the neighborhood, he’ll take that call and listen and more be more aptitude to work with us because we support them in the time of meat.

[00:50:29.36] spk_3:
Hey build trust. Yes, he had, he had a problem and you had a solution that you know, that that builds trust, I’m sure needed your degree. You know, this if you’re going to approach any of this or any other, any relationship, you know, transactional e I, you know, we want to get this out of it. We’re here for six months and then we’re moving on with some other project, then you shouldn’t even bother. I mean, but if you want to, but if you want to build a relationship, not that you have to be working together forever either. But if you’re gonna look at it as a transaction versus opening the door to a relationship, you’re, you’re short changing yourself the church, you’re trying to partner with the program. You’re trying to expand or build. You know, it’s it’s

[00:50:30.31] spk_2:
and the people you’re trying

[00:51:02.96] spk_3:
to serve and the people you hope to help. It’s not a it’s not a one and done. You know, it’s a we’re trying to build a relationship here. We don’t we don’t know the ways we might be able to work together in the future. You know, we got an idea how we could do what we can do now in this next six months or a year. But who knows what the ensuing years could bring. You know, it’s just basic relationship building. The same thing you do with your volunteers, your your donors. You know, you don’t look at them as transactions as a T. M. S. You get something out and then walk away. So, same thing here with any relationship, whether it’s with an individual or uh, an institution, like a black church. All right, that’s right.

[00:54:01.34] spk_2:
So yeah, I agree with you Tony, I agree with you so much tony I think I said that was more into the essence of why I wanted to do this. Um I think um so another reason as to why I presented this to anti china had to do with um an actual project that I did as a digital inclusion fellow um and in connection with the Rainbow push Coalition, and we were trying to establish some digital inclusion um programming at churches here in Atlanta. And it was because um the organization just did not understand each other well that the program itself for the initiative itself really didn’t experience the level of success that it could have. Um because on the church side, uh they weren’t fully educated as to what he was trying to be done. And then on the nonprofit side, they really, um, honestly did not understand the fully understand the idiosyncrasies of black church. Um, and I’ll give you a small example. Um, one of the, one of the criteria for the churches that was in the program, um, was that they needed to fundraise, um, a specific amount of dollars, and then the nonprofit was going to match that fundraisers, and then that was supposed to be, um, not quote unquote given, but sort of giving access to the fellow so that the fellow can use that those funds to build out the program. Well, as I was sitting there as one of the fellows listening to, you know, listening to how this work, I said, there’s a whole time kind of shaking my head. I said, you can’t do that with black shirts, you can’t just tell them to just fundraise for a specific a specific event and not run it through the sort of proper channels where everyone, including the leadership of the church is on board, um in order to in order to make it happen. And so what happened was, is that it kind of fell by the wayside because the church is was like, uh huh, what are you, what are you talking about? Fun. What do you mean? Like in addition to my ties and offerings or something different, something, whatever. And so unfortunately, go

[00:54:03.37] spk_3:
ahead. I need you to wrap up with with your takeaway from that. Okay. We just have a minute left. What’s your takeaway?

[00:54:09.44] spk_2:
So the takeaway is, is it’s just still important to to get that, do that research and and begin to understand one another. And it doesn’t just say, oh, you have my demographic. So let’s just do it and it takes time like you said, to build that relationship troubles.

[00:54:28.84] spk_3:
All right, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you. Need to leave Chief digital specialist at Anita uplifts LLC and Oliver Richmond, President Kingdom Partners, Anita. Oliver, thank you very much.

[00:54:38.71] spk_2:
Thank you.

[00:54:40.64] spk_0:
Take care now.

[00:56:07.84] spk_3:
Thank you very much. And thank you for being with Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 ntc 2021 nonprofit technology conference where we are sponsored by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot c o next week. CRM selection and new websites as our 21 NTC coverage continues. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I Beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O. And by sending Blue, the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in Blue, our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by scott Stein. Yeah, thank you for that. Affirmation scotty You with me next week for nonprofit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for August 8, 2014: Grow Your Sustainer Program & Friends With Benefits

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Nicola Bach & Chas Offutt: Grow Your Sustainer Program

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I met Nicola Bach and Chas Offutt at Blackbaud’s bbcon conference last year. They have strategies to build your recurring donors and convert web donors to sustainers. Nicola is senior fundraising analyst at Blackbaud and Chas is lead consultant for their donor engagement team.

 

 

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Gene Takagi: Friends With Benefits

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Gene Takagi continues our chat (from the 200th show) on partnerships, joint ventures and other friendly arrangements that can be enormously beneficial to your nonprofit until they’re not. What can you get into and how do you protect yourself? Gene is our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group. 

 

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Dahna hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host. It feels great to be back in the studio. Oh, and i’m glad you’re with me. I develop a bees or if i came to learn that you had missed today’s show, grow your sustainers program i met nichola bach and chazz office at blackbaud bb con conference last year. They have strategies to build your recurring donors and convert web donors to sustainers nikola is senior fund-raising analyst at blackbaud, and chazz is lead consultant for their donor engagement team. Also friends with benefits. Jean takagi continues our chat from the two hundredth show, which was terrific show on partnerships, joint ventures and other friendly arrangements that can be enormously beneficial to your non-profit until they’re not, what can you get into and how do you protect yourself? Jean is our legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group on tony’s take two non-profit radio on exit coach radio we’re sponsored by generosity siri’s they host multi charity five k runs and walks. I’m very pleased to give you this interview from bb con last year on your sustainers program welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of bb khan twenty thirteen we’re outside washington dc and national harbor, maryland at the gaylord convention center. My guests are nikola bach on chazz office, they’re both with blackbaud nikola is senior fund-raising analyst and chazz is lead consultant for the donor engagement team. Nicholas says welcome. Thank you be here, it’s a pleasure to have you you’re seminar topic is keys to success for growing a sustainer program jazz why is this sustainers program import? Well, tony, i think the growth in sustainers campaign ignored. I think we’re seeing year every year fund-raising growth large part of online revenue has been attributed to sustainers growth, in fact, two thousand twelve or two thousand eleven sustainers growth contributed twenty seven percent compared to previous year, which is low twenties. Okay, so what what what is the message that you think for non-profits i think largely there’s ah, an investment being made by non-profits to really grow and extend their program, investing into the monthly donors as faras dedicated communication treatment, cultivation tactics actually engage those individuals and the non-profit beyond sort of one time. Donation so there’s a real engagement opportunity for non-profits to have donorsearch vest in the program invest in an organization successive organization, and we’re talking about recruiting these donors either online or more traditional channels, right? Absolutely across the board. Okay, nikola, how would you like to introduce this? Well, i think it’s, the biggest growth area for non-profits presently, in the face of declining overall file counts and declining new donors, kant’s the pace of growth of revenue from sustaining donors has increased something like forty three percent over the last four years, and that growth has been ableto upset and compensate for the lack of growth in new single donors. Eso it’s an incredibly important portion of the active donor file what do we know about the loyalty? How likely or unlikely it is that someone is going to drop out of there there. Ah, sustaining e-giving well, for new donors, what we’ve seen on the median is for single gift owners who were new in eleven, twenty nine percent came back and gave a single gift in two thousand twelve, compared to about forty five percent of new sustainers returning so that thirteen we look at the thirteenth month retention rate do they give beyond that first year and stick into the next year? S o that’s for new donors and it gets even more exponentially better from multiyear donors who have given loyally for two consecutive years three, two, four and five plus additional years of giving are very strong indicators for continued yes, because e-giving exact especially their sustainers okay, yeah, the new donors that’s do we know whether that varies by charitable mission or or fund-raising revenue? Yes, it does very can very about organization and mission, and it also varies very much which has alluded to it. Bye bye. Source. So male versus online versus direct response. Television versus street versus radio in certain ads, all those air opportunities to recruit sustaining givers. And they those channels all generate different kinds of sustainers okay, what are some of the better times and better methods? Yeah, face-to-face can be problematic. You have that opportunity. Please sign up in the street and it’s hard to replicate that experience later on. However, if you’re able to keep them beyond the first four months, they’ll tend to stay with you. Dear tv can be very strong radio unfortunately, you said d r tv sorry, direct response to yeah, yeah drug in jail on tony martin and non-profit radio now in your eyes, a probation coming fairly easily, parole roll comes fairly easily. Go ahead. My apologies direct response, yes also tends to generate pretty sticky donors over the long term. What we’ve seen with radio and this is the global trends radio cast, a wide net and unfortunate doesn’t have the stickiest net as direct response television or even online. Okay, jazz, can you talk to some of the cuts across charitable missions? Absolutely. I think we see growth across all all verticals are all anti verticals, but i think they, as nikola pointed out that the growth is attributed or can be attributed multiple channels was which is a indicator of program maturity. I think, for organizations that are really just starting, i mean, what the highest return the first places look your own website, how are you converting people online? What’s the benefit set that’s being associated with? He asked, and how are you maximizing that channel, which is more or less free or cheaper? A lot cheaper. So the converting website donors to monthly being sort of a hyre retention rate now, as a program matures and grows, i think that’s where the opportunity is nikola mentioned is really identifying what those with the acquisition sources in the r o i within this acquisition be so important to the paid and organic approach, too sustainers acquisition, you mentioned the benefits set, how do we know what types of benefits we ought to be offering? Well, i think the first of all, i’m independent organisation, i guess that’s the easy way, easy way out, but, you know, what’s unique to that particular program, you know, i think that we see it is a lot of opportunities where a lot of organization see it is an opportunity from a designated giving standpoint. So for example, i think of pita pita, very it’s, very strong advocacy program. So they have a dozen e-giving program around investigations and rescue and it’s purely driven toward their advocates, too, with a stronger messaging, which is mohr action oriented. Oh, and two associate wth e-giving value to the particular action or impact within the program itself. So it’s a real diversification able to diversify spread e-giving opportunity for an organisation within core audience subsets okay? And nikola, we’re talking about sustainers e-giving at all different kinds of levels to so what jazz is referring to the benefits that i mean that’s obviously got a vary by the by the level at which the person is is giving. Yeah, i think that also varies by organization some organizations to run into other giving clubs at certain levels. So whether you’re giving cumulatively, for example, five hundred dollars, whether that’s in monthly instalments or one ofthe gift that may make you eligible for a leadership circle type thing, it’s organizations have to evaluate what is the best placement of a given donor donors interest, you know, many donors like the kind of engagement that month e-giving affords them. Some organizations are very good about reporting back about what what’s happening in the field, for example, lots of relief organizations that are working in syria right now, i’ll have the opportunity to report back on their work in a really, really life, real time kind of way and as a sustainers you can really see and feel the impact your monthly gift actually has there’s a lot of back end infrastructure, chazz, that has to be built in to have sustainers program, whether it’s, whether the channel you acquired them through his traditional or online, you need to have back office processes for thinking and handling. I just changes credit card changes, credit card explorations, talk about the how you set those up. What was your advice about that? The back office? Sure, i think that’s a great question, because infrastructure being a big part of sustainers, of course, and how are you enabling a program and setting up for success? You know, many organizations lease here today and, of course, have a database of record andan online and online offering, and so setting up those programs in which that they are promoting a sustainers metoo together, meaning a program that is integrated across all channels being sort of the key, of course, but ensuring that the management of the sustainers audience ahead of time is very is planned out. I think that’s a big thing is planning out in advance. You know how we’ll be treated? How will it be communicated? Tio, how are they in most cases, be separated from the main stream within the organization? I’m like nikola mentioned, i think. Major donors being a big a big indicator because major dahna programs are separate a large part sustainers were seeing a greater emphasis around separating sustainers from your everyday donors because there’s a higher level engagement, they’re advocates their volunteers there, major donors potentially and so planning in advance, having that strategy in place, having that road map, you know, to create sustainers program that is acknowledging sustainers grown sustainers and then allowing that maturity teo to to develop around payed acquisition, organic acquisition, whatever the growth in tactics may be at the same time there is integration the way nikola was describing bringing sustaining donors into the e-giving circles. So so there’s there’s some segregation, treating them especially the way you’re describing, you know, benign segregation, you know, nothing, nothing, nothing hurtful, but seeing them special, but then also bring them into the organization in terms of his nickel was saying that the recognition. Okay, so, you know, i think it just add to that everything sustainers ahs. Ah whole. I mean it’s it’s. The great payment plan means a layaway plan. So, it’s, you know, if you have a donor that gives twice a year. Twenty five dollars. You know, what we see is generally ten dollars, per month is a very logical next step. Ten dollars, per month in which is one hundred twenty dollars, per year. Of course, that is a greater value to the organization. So what can you identify? So your various levels and grow grow, the donor based e-giving ending. Doing good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network duitz waiting to get into thinking. Cubine this’s, the cook, said, wear hosting part of my french new york city, or guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back. French is coming language. Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it common desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them, shed their story. Join us. Pardon my french new york city every monday from one to two p, m. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Okay, let’s, start to jazz let’s stay with you and stuff to get into some details about what what are our first steps to building sustainers program? We don’t we don’t, we don’t currently have, you know, i think the first step is courses defining what this is data program is the mission objective of sustainers program how will complement and support your organization? So defining the benefits set could very well include not only the tangible but intangibles where benefits associate with sustainers program for donorsearch could be, you know, financial stability that i’m providing my monthly donation to allow for the organisation respond to catastrophes around the world. Or nikola mentioned the syria example that’s very topical in the sense that my dollars air helping support that organization then and they’re so defining it being very important. And then also, i think branding isn’t a essential component that as well so is their name for your program, you know, champions, you know, legacy similar attack, this we see from a major donor development, but really creating the uniqueness within the program being a kind of core place to start. How do we identify let’s? Go to your nicholas. The right prospects for our sustainers giving program we’ll hopefully you’re acquiring them directly already that’s the fastest pace of growth in terms of growing the volume of sustainers you have so your first initial contact with the prospect, in my opinion, should be a sustaining asked this come complementary with that converting existing donorsearch yeah, fifty dollars a year under twenty how do you know identify who? The blood? Yeah, great loyalty in your file heidtke if frequencies coupled with that and also this is always kind of a scary one, but the people who respond to your first renewal a great prospects for sustainers giving oh, interesting. We know that we know that through analytics, i’m sure exactly what you think is going on. What’s the brother. They’re excited to be a part of the organization in a monetary aspect and want to continue that kind of committed giving. You do have to re budget the rest of your renewals accordingly that you’ve you know, siphon them off and else where’s the budget cut budget with caution, but they are raising their hand proactively early. They’re being asked on that the early nous, the recency of that makes a difference and just a chazz this point, i think the other thing we emphasize is education. You can’t just dive headlong into sustainers program and expect it to be a sensation overnight, so it really takes educating everyone from the interns, helping you answer the phones. Why is month e-giving an important part of your e-giving conversation to the director of the board? Everyone needs to be on the same page with regard to what does it mean? This kind of ongoing, sustained, committed e-giving we’re asking of our donors. And what does it mean for organization wise it important? Especially when it’s brand new exactly. I’ve never heard of this sustainers program this this legacy e-giving what is it and okay? And what’s my r a y? Is it going to be this campaign? Well, it’s not really a campaign view. It’s not talking about the spring appeal december a year and appeal it’s smaller monthly gifts typically in ten, fifteen, twenty dollars and if you’re just looking at it every quarter, every two quarters, that doesn’t look like a very sensible investment. So you look at the annual giving and beyond, okay, and then just as i turned, i think, a ce faras looking at the file of being a true indicator of performance and sort of prospects for sustaining program, but also looking at sort of already existing engagement and thinking about who was already involved in the organization. Volunteers advocates, as i mentioned, you know, those are individuals, major donors, there’s air, all individuals that are already invested in organization, and so the benefits set helps compliment and upgrade those potential individuals too deep in the royalty or deep in the engagement organization. How long should it be before we ask someone toe upgrade their sustainers e-giving we just had a session with international justice mission michelle at i j m had their sustainers upgrade programs eighteen months, so after twelve months on file, they’ll then go through a very well coordinated a great campaign toe upgrade those twelve months sustainers and then try again were work again eighteen months for those that upgraded okay on do we know analytically whether that’s, whether that’s, that’s the right time frame well, we have data that compare it’s been a very successful model for them. They are more than four percent of their sustainers an upgrade with a average gift amount about thirty two dollars on top of the sustainers monthly gift. Okay, so a four percent upgrade annually is considered successful. Consider it. We’re going i don’t have a very successful but the most important thing there too is also their active communication with the sustainers i think that open dialogue, that treatment as well as we mentioned and talked about the very port part of the process. So it’s not just a one upgrade campaign in september. It’s it’s, the program that’s in place throughout the year to cultivate those donors to identify you know who are how are they engaged? How do they want to be communicated, tio? And then using a a coordinated effort throughout our recording effort at a cz certain pierre to time certain peer-to-peer day year to really upgrade and make a substantial impact in the sustainers program? Do we know chazz how what the impact is on outcomes sustainability of the program when people are thanked at different intervals? No, should they get a monthly thank you every time? There’s a monthly gift? Should i get a semi annual annual way? Have any data that compares different the frequencies? Of thanks. Well, i think that the state of best practices always ended your receipt. And in a common tact, i think many organizations will use it at your end since we’re talking about your it’s it’s urine time a year at least, is that thirteen gift and so thinking about that from sustainers sustainers segment at your inn to invite. Not only think them with a donor receipt, but i have a special appeal to the sustainers make a thirteenth gift in december. Okay, so that’s about that’s the best practices is the year end. Well, there’s a urine, but you’re in receipt. Yes, to your question. Okay, okay. So unwise to be sending a thank you. I mean, i’ve heard this question among non-profits that either i don’t know if they’re doing sustainers programs are contemplating, but how often should we think it is a gift once a month. So i sent a letter every month and there’s the fear that if you do that, you remind them that they’re giving every month and you worried that they’re going to cancel. And this question came up in our session as well, and i think to chazz is point. Most organizations are doing the text receipt thank you, and then keeping their sustaining donors abreast of activities with the organization and giving them other opportunities throughout the year to make additional donations beyond the year end appeals. And to that, i think you mean the mentality or that the thinking has been, you know, setting forget i think we’re moving away from that a little bit instead of not to be afraid of communicating to sustainers not to be afraid that if you remind them they’re giving you, they’re going to cancel its really the other way is what are you doing to engage them in the mission in the program throughout the year, remind them of their impact and actually engage them and to become mohr involved in the work that you do? So they’re our responders, i think, to the receipt in the aspect of it, their monthly all responding sleeps with an online transaction, but the end of year receipt we see generally beings were the core focus from the benefits set that is a benefit for a donor wrap up all the year, giving in one email, one letter, whatever it may be for tax. Purposes, okay? And that also has implications for upgrades. If you’re not keeping someone engaged, then the twelve month ask for the upgrade is going to be out of the blue right? Absolutely seems nonsensical, and i actually think that sustained giving the e-giving behavior of giving every month is the perfect engagement tool for millennials that is, millennials, i think, are already engaging in a charitable way, whether it’s through kickstarter, volunteering and they want to have that community immediacy feel toe what their actions are, and i think sustaining giving with the appropriate feedback loop to the sustainer is a perfect way to get those younger donors the millennials a thirty year olds the ones were all vying for. They’re going to replace that very generous world war two generation that we’re so desperate, tio supplement i think that lots of organizations could benefit from having that sustainers conversation with millennials generation, we still have some time left. What else? Nickel if you want to say about those sustainers program, i think if you’re going to do it, go all in, commit to it one hundred percent and look at it in the long term it’s not going. To stay overnight to see yeah it’s, not an overnight sensation. It’s a sustainable way of giving it’s a sustained way of giving and your entire organisation from the reception is to a man who makes the decisions or the woman needs to be bought in that this is the way to give. And i think that’s the most important thing when you approach a sustainers program because it can seem like small numbers and you’re not really making a dent where you got that big appeal with single one off gifts feels fabulous, but it’s not that’s, not a sustainable way of raising money. In my opinion. Okay, jazz, what else? What else did not that we still have some time? What else didn’t i asked? One of the biggest things we’re seeing emerging trend right now is organizations going to default sustainers ask mean instead of a one time sustainers asked meaning tony, great to meet you. Consider making one time donation. It’s tony, we consider being a monthly donor to this programme and so default ass is put in the front for first foot forward is sustainers now that is emergency numbers and organizations really investing in. That practice, but we looked at us compared to australia, uk, canada where sustaining giving is, you know, thirty, thirty five percent of philanthropy that’s the first ask that those countries in the countries outside the u s i already have a very interesting so we’ve got a long way to go. We’re seeing significant growth, but it’s going it requires investment organizations, requires commitment and planning in advance, but there’s, good signs, good trends and good growth to date. All right, now the the commitment for this has got to start at the top clearly, i mean, i don’t think this could start with the chief development officer think there needs to be sort of a cultural mindset that sustainable sustainers e-giving is sustainable and important for our future and that’s gotta come from those ceo it’s gonna be adopted. I mean, across the organization there’s, no doubt about that, i think, adopted and then put forth as faras priority and how on organizations going to do that and define it to find the benefits to find the program and support of the mission zoho okay, everyone replies, chances point the rest of the world really is this is the way of giving this is very interesting. So yeah, it’s the europeans, they’re doing this a cz their their initial ask their default over a long time, and the banking structure has a large parts or play in that because all those of us where europeans that’s, how you pay everything is bialik trump, elektronik funds transfer you to be a little gyro, but most bills, most anything you interact with used have to go to the post office to make those payments and everything’s on lines it’s a real mindset that’s just how you give it’s a cultural mindset in many european and latin american countries as well, and i think that, you know, culture and banking infrastructure have a big role to play, and we’re moving that way, but fund-raising practices also have a big role to play, so we’ve been taught that the one ofthe gift is king and that’s the way to to solicit donors, and i think we as fundraisers need to make that mental shift as well. Really it’s sustained giving because the benefits to the organization that you’re trying to help our so much greater yeah, it’s a it’s a hundred degrees from where we are absolute and there’s evidence that the sustainer donors will become, or can can, can become the major one off one ofthe donorsearch absolute when there may be a cause for a campaign where the the monthly is not goingto be sufficient well, and that and that’s a great point, because i think the overall and some of the data nodes and nikolai presented sustainers value is far greater than organizations extends beyond the monthly contribution. I mean, as we mentioned, that the volunteerism but just think that an advocacy, but just the financial impact on this one off campaigns throughout the year, it becomes sort of a trademark of sort of ah donorsearch port, but then those opportunities of further support i’m should not be neglected because that value increases tremendously for unfortunately catastrophes that happened or certain special projects throughout the year. Our year end there’s air all opportunities to talk to your sustainers as sustainers with that impact potential, you know, it’s very interesting. I do plan e-giving consulting and i have for about sixteen years, and there are parallels between what we say about people who include the organization in their will or have a charitable gift annuity where they’re getting regular income typically is quarterly from the organization, and those can lead to larger hyre individual gif ts increased annual giving so there’s a parallel because of this ongoing, sustaining relationships mean somebody in somebody who has the organization in their will they’re they’re committed for life. If you want to continue that arrangement and the engagement levels like volunteerism, like you’re saying, jack, do increase pretty frequently write interesting, interesting parallel between two very different types of giving state vs absolute sustainers through different participation, very different, but the outcomes on the relationships are really interesting parallels. Exactly. Thanks so much. Thanks for sharing. You’re interesting for me. Thank you very much. Nikola bok is senior fund-raising analyst for blackbaud chazz office is lead consultant for the donor engagement team at blackbaud i thank you both very much. Thank you durney been a real pleasure. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of bb khan twenty thirteen and i thank you very much for listening. Time for live listener love. Hello, new bern, north carolina. Beverly mass. Absecon, new jersey. I know i said that, right? A lot of people think it’s abscond. But i know it’s, absecon, new jersey on the jersey shore love it! Atlanta, georgia and cummings, georgia live listener love out to everyone there and brooklyn, new york. Thank you, brooklyn. Nice to have you nice and close. I appreciate that we could go abroad a little bit federal argentina, federal, argentina welcome tokyo and sendai, japan. Konnichiwa, jeddah, saudi arabia love to have you hope you come back. General, we haven’t seen you before. I don’t think ukraine, you’re in our thoughts ukraine, you’ve been with us before. Glad you’re with us again live listener love out there and also seoul, south korea, on your haserot always appreciate the koreans checking in thank you very much. Generosity siri’s, they host multi charity peer-to-peer five k runs and walks multi charity means that you can have an event with a small number of runners and walkers because together with the other charities that are in the same event, there’s hundreds of runners and walkers. If you happen to be using this summer time to plan your fall fund-raising or beyond, then ah, why don’t you speak to generosity? Siri’s they’ve got runs walks coming up in new jersey, miami atlanta, new york city, philadelphia and toronto. It might make sense for you. Talk to dave lynn he’s the ceo. Please tell him that you’re from non-profit radio and you can reach dave lynn at seven one eight five o six. Nine triple seven or on the web generosity siri’s dot com very grateful for their sponsorship. Please check them out. The table’s got turned a couple weeks ago and i was interviewed on another show was bill blacks exit coach, radio it was fun to sit back and just answer questions and just yammer along and i don’t have to worry about watching the clock or anything like that was quite a pleasure. I see how easy the guests have it. Andi no, jean takagi is listening. So i thank you very much. Bill black for having me on your show. I talked about the takeaways that i’ve learned from over two hundred non-profit radio shows and the audio and video that i have are on my site at tony martignetti dot com, you’ll find a listening length to the exit coach radio interview i did with him, and that is tony’s take two for friday eighth of august. Thirty first show of the year. Jim takagi hello. Hi, tony. How are you? I’m doing very well. Gina’s are managing attorney at neo non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the popular non-profit law blawg dot com and on twitter he’s at ji tech. Jean, i’m doing very well glad to have you back. It’s a pleasure to be back, tony. Thank you. We’re going to continue our conversation from a couple weeks ago, the two hundredth show when we were talking about partnerships, i call them friendships, you know, friend, i said friends with benefits, but partnerships and things like that, and, uh and how we’re going to protect ourselves. You and i talked a little about who we might partner with. Maybe we can say a little more about that. Sure, you know, i think we teased out a little bit the idea of non-profits collaborating with one another and how we’re pushed by different agencies and thunders and maybe the public in our stakeholders teo, engage in more collaborations, teo further our missions and how we choose those partners i think is very important and making sure that we understand who we’re working with what their skills on dh strengths are and what their weaknesses are and how we might engage together. Synergistically, i think all of those things you want to bet a little before you develop some sort of legal relationship with them. Yeah, and i would think the board has a role in this because if there is going to be illegal agreement between them and we’ll talk about whether that’s appropriate or not. But if if if we’re going to go to that level than the board needs to be involved in this process, too, i think when, when, particularly when the relationship is going to be a substantial one that’s true. Now, if it’s going to just be a one off, you know, one event, you provide the drinks and we’ll provide the food. Okay, then? Yeah, we don’t worry about the board there, but for if we’re goingto have this joint fundraiser that’s going to take three months to prepare ah, and had been involved in a big place that we have to rent out and insurance and making sure that we get adequate participation and funding and we rely on other people to show up. Those are the types of things where the board may want to get involved, especially in the first time relationship, and after we’ve found a partner or partners that that maybe working with us, we want to know whether we should, how we should document our relationship. And and we talked a little about the mou, the memo of understanding versus the contract, right? And, you know, i’m not the biggest fan of the m o you, joe, you know, i think i miss you. Okay? Okay, well, how is that? Well, i think and, you know, speaking as a lawyer and you roll their eyes a little bit that’s okay? The mou really is intended to be an unenforceable documents so it’s like yes, you do this and we’ll do that. If it’s a joint fund raiser, you go ahead and rent the revenue will go ahead and get the entertainment on dh will provide the educational materials now in an mou that’s not maybe always specified, but we don’t say well, what happens if you don’t, you know, rent the venue if you didn’t get adequate insurance for it or if we didn’t market right? And where we didn’t get the educational materials out, so we can’t really deliver our message the way we wanted to. And now it may be one party spot more than the others and what happens in that case if it’s an mou that’s not intended to be enforceable? Well, then, i guess it’s just a broken trust and you know, everybody’s on their own after that. But if you intend fur, some of it to be enforceable, you know, sometimes you want to get that language in there and make sure that it’s understood that it’s an agreement. A lot of times i see people who hedge on this and they and they have this enforceable agreement, but they call it an mou, and even government agencies do that that’s a little pet peeve of mine it just to make sure that both parties are on the same page. Is it enforceable? What happens if the other party doesn’t live up to their agreements? And are we clear about what you’re supposed to do? This is what we’re supposed to do now. We should have an attorney draft this it’s going to be an enforceable contract, which is what your preferences i mean, that needs to be drafted by an attorney? Well, i think the at least the initial draft, if you enter into the same type of relationships multiple occasions, you may not need the attorney to bet every single time, particularly if it’s smaller deal, but yes, generally speaking, i think you’re right, you do want an attorney to at least review ah, the written agreement, whatever you call it, whether you call it an mou or not, you want an attorney toe review that and maybe question you on challenge you on some of those points to make sure that everybody is clear about what their respective obligations and responsibilities are and what they can expect reasonably from the other party, because there are elements of a contract that are based in state law that make a writing into a contract and make it enforceable or not. And so if those elements aren’t there, you might think you have a contract, but it wasn’t prepared, or at least reviewed by an attorney probably should be prepared, i think. And you may think you have a contract, but you don’t. Yeah, or or you may be just missing a whole. Bunch of things like, when does the contract? And there are a lot of times that they’re just open ended contracts and you don’t want the other party coming up to you, like two years after you last talked with each other and saying, hey, you didn’t live up to this end of your bargain last week, right? All right, okay. All right. So, it’s, a lot of implications around the contract mean, its’s it’s an art drafting these and making sure that they are, in fact, enforceable under the state law where they’re going to be where they’re going to be judged. Yeah, and i think it also is an opportunity for you for you to just get mutually gets a mutual understanding of what your respective roles are, because sometimes there’s a lot of gray areas that, you know, we didn’t discuss verbally, you know, who was supposed to be responsible for this thing, but it’s critical to what we’re doing together, and we kind of both just let it slip by having a written agreement and really challenging yourself to make sure that it’s gonna work in multiple situations and with different contingencies think that’s really important. Okay, i think i’m glad you said it. I can tell you feel strongly about it. Excellent. I should plug there’s another non-profit attorney out there. Her name is alice carter she’s a friend. And she writes the charity lawyer block. I got an excellent article on mou or written agreement. And if anybody wants to look into that further, i highly recommend that article. I know ellis she’s in phoenix, arizona, isn’t she? Yeah. Yeah. Ok. That’s, charity law blawg dot com verity, lawyer block charlie lawyer blogged, right? That’s because she calls herself charity lawyer. Yes. Okay. Ellis if she’s listening. Hello, alice. Um, now, all right, so what happens if there is a disappointment and somebody doesn’t follow through and, of course, that somebody could be you now that we have an enforceable contract, you know, it’s enforceable always and including against you. So suppose somebody doesn’t follow through and do what they’re supposed to do, and we touched on that on the last show as well. And, generally speaking, we probably don’t put a lot of specific remedies in there. We just say, well, if one party doesn’t live through and the other party got harmed by it you know, the party that didn’t follow through should compensate and make up for any harm that their partner i’ll say partner, loosely speaking, lost out on just to make them back make him whole again. But there’s sometimes maybe specific things that that that you want from them. So if they were expecting you were expecting them to deliver something and they didn’t do it on time. You may say, well, we still want delivery of of that. Plus, we want some sort of compensation or or additional services because you missed out so you can be very specific in the agreement, or you could just let the agreement be enforceable by the amount of damages or harm that you suffered, and this will be part of the negotiations of the agreement. That’s, right? You might think your damages should be something, and the other side may think now, you know, shouldn’t be that large, and that will be all part of the discussions in the negotiations. Yeah, and the more you know, involved in the bigger the the agreement and the, you know, potential joint venture that you’re engaging in that the more lawyerly it should look, with more provisions. If it’s really again, a very simple thing. You may not have to worry so much about technical provisions, unless you really think you’re gonna be harmed in a specific way, right? If it’s something smaller and like you said, ah, one off that’s ah, small, a small venture together. Yeah, and you’ve got to be reasonable. Obviously, you don’t want to spend five thousand dollars in legal fees for an event that’s going to only generate ten thousand dollars. Now we can we have this thing called partnerships, which is a legal term. When would a partnership between non-profits be appropriate? Well, a partnership, legally speaking means that both entities, they’re both partners, are going to be completely libel, responsible for whatever they’re doing together and that’s a really important point to know, because that means if you’re one partner and you’re the other partners screws up and some people get hurt, they consume both of you. And if your partner says, well, i’m sorry i don’t have any money to pay off the lawsuit, you’re completely responsible for the whole thing, not just half of it, you’re responsible for the whole thing. So really important part to understand if you’re really in a partnership as we use that term legally, that means you’re going to be completely responsible for anything that goes wrong with the partnership. You’re you’re working hard to stay in the jargon jail because you don’t want to say you don’t want to say joint and several liability, right? You said it, not me, ok, i was in my mind, right? So that means that everybody’s responsible for everything, irrespective of what their role in the problem might have been do i say that? Right? So you could be completely innocent and completely not responsible for the harm caused to a third party. But at least when they’re trying to collect some money for for whatever harm they suffered, they can get it all from you if your partner doesn’t have any money. Right. Okay, now, partnership could be more than just two non-profits. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Okay, just making that shirt okay. Making clear. Okay, so, that’s a pretty serious thing to take on partnership versace not declaring it as a partnership. And how would you make that clear? That would be in the agreement or partnerships require certain special agreements. It’s a really great question because you could enter into a partnership without a written agreement. If you just act in a way that says, hey, you’re jointly responsible for putting on an event or putting on a program or delivering services together, and you show that you’re you know, just by your actions that you’re jointly responsible for it. And perhaps you’re sharing the revenue stream that’s being generated if there is some revenue coming out of that joint venture well, you could form a partnership for which you’re liable for your other partners, mistakes without a partnership agreement or without any writing at all so it could be imputed by philip business based on all the facts like you just described them, yeah, hey can can be, uh sometimes people enter into agreements and they say in the agreement, this is very common to say we’re not engaged in a partnership and they feel like, well, that’s an out and that’s helpful language, but that’s not the whole story, because if you’re still sharing responsibilities and obligations and your conduct is that of a partner and you’re still sharing the revenues let’s, say with two partners fifty fifty yeah, no matter what you’re contributing, you still may be on the hook of a partner to a partnership, even though the agreement that you entered into said we’re not partners see, this makes me want to just live in a cocoon and never talked to anybody because i may i may have a conversation with somebody on the subway, and now now i’m in a partnership, it just means you want to talk, talk about it a little bit with a lawyer. Just to get an understanding of how to form these collaborations and one talk with the lawyer may go a long way in multiple relationships. So get that initial conversation, or maybe attend illegal seminar, where they talk about these things. Okay, very good advice, let’s, let’s, take our our break. When we come back, jean and i’ll keep talking about friends with benefits, and we’ll talk about maybe some. Well, not maybe talk about some measures of success, and howto decide about sharing the results of your collaboration together. Notice. I didn’t call it a partnership, because it may not necessarily be one. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. If you have big dreams in a small budget tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio, i d’oh. I’m adam braun, founder of pencils of promise. Oppcoll welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We’re joined by some new listeners. Ah, third, listen, another listener in georgia. Decatur. We’ve got decatur, atlanta and coming. Uh, cummings, georgia, do you know each other? I wonder san francisco, california gene, i don’t think that’s you there’s somebody else listening in san francisco, brooklyn, new york, still with us love it and none. Jing china china joined us. Ni hao jean let’s see about what would cover in continuing this let’s see about defining success, how we should should should measures of success be part of our agreement? Yeah, i think it depends upon the level of collaboration that we’re talking about. They’re different levels that we can go to. For example, two non-profits could decide they want to share a photocopier. Okay. That’s a collaborative effort on the very, very low end of the scale. Or maybe they want to share a chief financial officer that gets a little bit more complex. That’s. Interesting. Right? Sharing staff. Yeah, yeah, right. Or maybe they just want to share space so that, you know, depending upon the level we get to it. Maybe you know, pursuant to a resource sharing agreement or cost sharing structure. Or we may have to do, you know, create mutual service agreements or independent contractor agreements, maybe it’s one way, maybe it’s two way going both ways and how we figure all that out. Uh, it means that we we have to understand what the goals are. So going back to your question at the outset of any negotiations or discussions between the different non-profits that want to collaborate, they have to figure out their mutual goals, and then individually they have to set apart well, what do they each want? You know, from from this relationship, and how will they define it to be a success? Because that varies just completely amongst every collaboration you mentioned, the sharing of space, and that doesn’t have to certainly be between non-profits a lot of times someone who’s close to an organisation on a lot of times, that’s a boardmember not necessarily ah, has extra space, and they will give the space to the to the non-profit um and i don’t know that those air always papered or even paper correctly, but i bet they’re not even a lot of times just paper. But there should be some kind of an agreement in writing between that the company that the boardmember let’s say represents and the non-profit right, especially if that boardmember is going to be paid there’s some conflict of interest issues involved their private foundations can’t do that at all for money. Public charities can as long as it’s reasonable compensation. But there are some rules, both ous five a onesie, three entities and there’s some state non-profit rules that may apply so good conflict of interest policy is going to be important to make sure that it protects the non-profit from getting into on ly a reasonable deal to the non-profit not one that provides some sort of private benefit to the director. But, you know, the vast majority of these cases are where boardmember czar offering space for free right to the non-profit andi it’s their own place that that’s absolutely fine. If the boardmember is actually leasing that out and sublease may be necessary or else they may be breaching their own lease with the landlord. Okay, a lot of implications to that mean, just, you know, we have to we have to be protecting ourselves. I mean he’s non-profits on non-profit is a company that’s it’s a corporation it’s a business. It just happens to be a non-profit business, so it needs to be run like a business. Absolutely. We gotta protect ourselves. Our employees are the people we’re serving and those lives were saving the donors who have invested, you know, we all ah, they all we all need to be protected. And so that’s that’s, you know, that’s why we’re talking about this stuff? I mean, you know, just do these things lightly and, you know, sort of on a handshake. Yeah, and, you know, but you know, non-profits don’t have owners that’s a big difference and that’s why the board it’s got to be reminded there’s, not an owner overseeing to make sure that the non-profit really gets a fair deal, and maybe you were lucky enough to have an executive who’s willing to take on that task, but it’s really up to the board to make sure that they’re looking after that. Non-profit and making sure that the non-profit is not giving sweetheart deals to anybody else outside of the organization, regardless of whether they’re a boardmember or an officer or anybody the non-profit has got to protect its own charitable assets. That would be the role of shareholders in a profit making corporation, and they have their own personal motivation to do that. But non-profit boardmember here, mostly volunteers. They may not have that, and they may sort of not be exercising that type of diligence at an owner would over their own assets. But they kind of have to, because they’re they’re the ones that are providing that stewardship over the non-profits asset. So, really, that they need to be paying as much attention to the non-profits work as they do their own businesses work. Ideally, yeah, okay. So i suppose we have some delivery bols involved in all this, and this is, you know, sort of subsumed in what we’ve been talking about already just want to make it explicit. If there’s money that’s going to be shared or some other delivery ble that’s goingto result maybe it’s, even ah, a grant proposal that’s going to be joint and that’s the delivery ble that that should be specified. Yeah, that should all be specified. And, you know, i sort of wanted to jump it back in on that partnership thing. It’s not always bad toe have a partnership. Maybe you do want engage in a partnership with another non-profit and do it through a legal entity like a limited liability company and that’s almost like having a kid together. So if you’ve decided to partner with another non-profit tohave child or this joint venture together, you better know who that person is. And you better know how you want to raise your child and what each of you are going to contribute to the child’s growth and what happens when you have a disagreement over how to raise that child. If i just take that analogy further. And you know how comfortable you’ll be with liabilities caused solely by your co venture? Because if you don’t want to be partners, limited liability company means that you’re only liable to to the extent of your investment in the llc, the partnership liabilities don’t come up if you do this right, they don’t come up and hit the non-profit partners, they’re just limited to whatever that contributed to the llc. Still, i’m glad i called this friends with benefits because basically you’re saying you gotta hold hands before you sleep together. Yeah, kind of and taking it one step further if a joint ventures like having a kid together. Ah, merger on you mentioned that at the last of the last show that’s kind of the ultimate collaboration and that’s, you know, if i could take take bad analogy further let’s, let’s say that that’s really like marriage on marriage with almost no possibility of divorce, are very, very difficult. Um, it might be true in the analogy and analogous version, but no, no it’s much easier in the end, i have personal experience on that take a metaphor further, but yeah, no merger is you’re you’re now want you’ve, you’ve formed a union, you’re you’re now one, right? Okay. And all sorts of considerations to make sure, you know, you understand that not only are you gonna acquire all the assets of your marriage partner, but you’re goingto acquire all of their debts and liabilities and obligations as well. So you really got to know what the other partner is bringing to the table. Hold hands before you before you sleep together and make sure you use protection. Very good that’s what comes from our friends from friends with benefits segment? And now, i mean, you know, we got to protect ourselves. That’s, that’s what you’re saying, do you have to we have to leave it there. Thank you very, very much. Thanks, tony. You’ll find jeanette non-profit law blogged dot com and on twitter he’s at ji tech next week, a non-profit technology conference panel on female technologists that the panel is not all men that’s good, because men don’t know anything about women’s struggles competing in technology. So it’s, an all female panel talking about females in technology. Also any sample ward returns she’s, our social media contributor and ceo of non-profit technology network, where i did that interview? If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com small and midsize shops. Remember generosity siri’s for multi charity five k runs and walks seven one eight, five o six. Nine, triple seven or generosity siri’s, dot com. Our creative producers, claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz is on the board. Our line producer shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is, as always, john federico of the new rules. This music is by scott stein of brooklyn. You with me next week for non-profit radio. I hope you will be big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Yeah. They didn’t think that shooting getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. Nothing. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan. Wainwright were the hosts of the new thursday morning show, the music power hour, eleven a m we’re gonna have fun shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com, you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking.