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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a new affiliate to welcome k y r s eighty eight point one and ninety two point three fm in medical lake spokane, washington i’m looking forward to helping your non-profits welcome kyi rs thank you so, so much for being with non-profit radio and being our newest affiliate, k y our s oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with ngom nail blast iq limb, fadden apathy. If you gave me the bad news that you missed today’s show linkage ability and interest introducing the high principle for reading potential donors re a simple walks us through it she’s, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder and crowdfunding legal tips jean takagi is our legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group he raises your consciousness about legal issues around the popular crowd funding sites and he walks us through those on tony’s take two non-profit radio on the road and third sector responsive by opportunity collaboration, the working meeting on poverty alleviation that will ruin you for every other conference, i’m very glad that maria samples back with me she’s, the prospect finder, a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com, and her book is panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects now exclamation mark she’s our diet of dirt cheap and free ideas you can follow her on twitter at maria simple. Welcome back, maria! Hey there, tony, how are you? I’m doing terrific, lee. Well, how are you today? Just find a little bit of allergies going on, but other than that, you know, i think everybody suffering, though, right? Well, i suppose i see you have a lot of allergens in new jersey. You know this here seems to be particularly bad. I have not been bad in past years, but ah, i don’t know. What’s going on this here against the it must have all exploded at once. Okay? I’m allergic to some people in new jersey. Ilsen listen, my family that’s what you know or not you mostly my family. Um all right, my mom and dad don’t listen, so they wouldn’t know that i just said that there, but they’re big fans. Of the show, but they don’t they don’t. Listen, um, this l a i linkage ability and interest. We’re using this for tracking and rating are potential donors. Is that right? Yeah. That’s, right. You know, i thought it would be an interesting topic today. I was i was recently asked to speak about this on another person’s webinar. And i was thinking that it was something you and i had not covered in the past, um and it’s certainly something that is freon dirt cheap, right? Because it’s being done by dafs board volunteers and, you know, khun really involve a lot of different people in this process and it’s probably, you know, a pretty important part of the overall fund-raising process when you think about it because, you know, we only have so many hours in a day in a week, in a month in a year, um, so we really need to be able to focus on where allocate our time and our resource is right. So human resource is funding, etcetera? Um, so, you know, we’re trying to really get down to is answering that most basic question and fund-raising is really how to qualify people. Right? So hopefully, you know, at the end of the next few minutes together we’ll we’ll come up with a process for your listeners that people can start to implement. Okay? All right. So, uh, what’s think our first part linkage? What is it? What i mean by linkage? Linkage to what? Right? So linkage to the organization. So how how is this person linked to your organization? Who is that? Ah, that individual that might stand between you and that prospect. So, you know, it could be that you have a boardmember who has access to this individual, maybe maybe it’s a staff member or ah, some other volunteer with the organization, so they’re really kind of like, in lincoln terminology, they’re really just two degrees separated from you. Um, and and in some cases, somebody might be more than two degrees separated on dh, then that’s going to really kind of affect how well linked they are to your organization already and how much they they already know about you, right? I have to i have to quibble with you about something now linked in did not create that two degrees of separation. That correct that comes from kevin bacon that’s, right? I don’t i don’t want the social networks taking over our r ah, story traditions, that is a kevin bacon, you know, story, whatever you’re called that is not attributed to linked in dot com, alright, right know it’s? Not absolutely, but of course, lincoln can help you in this process when you’re trying to determine linkage, right? So if you’re just trying to figure out you have a known individual, maybe they’ve come teo ah gala or something, and you’re trying to figure out, well, who can really help us, you know, cultivate and potentially solicit this individual? We want to engage them a little further in in our cause? Um, and so, you know, certainly lincoln is one of the tools that you might be able to use, i think, you know, why not use that technology that’s there to help determine how many degrees they’re separated from you? I’m not objecting, teo, speaking to that in terms of linkage and proximity to the organization. So geography, i think, in my opinion, could potentially play a knopper tune ity here into linkage. So if you really a small non-profit and you serve a very small geographic area um, you know, is this prospect living in that geographic area, or do they live somewhere else in your state? But maybe they have an interest in funding your type of cause. So, you know, i do think that that geography can play a role in this as well. Okay, okay. Um also the e-giving history, right? In terms of our their their closeness to the organization, another way of measuring that is how often and at what level have they been giving and how regularly, absolutely and, you know, we’ve all heard of the stories in the press, right of people who passed away, they leave a lot of money to an organisation, they were on ly donors that say very modest levels, but they were consistent, right? So they zsystems long time donors and and, you know, i’m preaching to the choir was talking to you about this, tony, but, you know, certainly passed e-giving history is even if even if the gift amounts have not been very high, i really do think you have to take into account that longevity how long they’ve been with you? Yes, on dh that’s particularly true looking for potential donors in planned e-giving but yeah, that that committed person who’s been giving and, you know, maybe you’ve heard me, you probably have because we’ve we’ve done seven hours together say that, you know, even if it’s ten dollars, a year or ten dollars, a couple of times a year, but they’ve been doing it for for a long, long time, like eight out of the past ten years or twelve or fifteen out of the past twenty years i mean, that’s ah, that’s a lot that’s a that’s, a really committed person, even at low, low level. So you want to consider them as potential? Maybe not for what you might consider a major gift, but certainly for potential volunteering planned gift or maybe moving them up the the e-giving in the giving ladder, you know, that consistency is really important, irrespective of the size of the gift. Yeah, alright, thanks, maria. So you know, i would agree with you, right? You’re you’re on safe ground. Yeah. Course. Plus, i i feel bad. I feel bad about my rant about the kevin bacon phenomenon, so i don’t want it. But you know me well enough that you know there’s no harm done. No, i’m intended no harm intended. Maybe harm done, but i didn’t intend any, but i don’t think so. What’s ah, what’s ability all about after linkage. So the a for ability. So really it’s it’s, really? The ability rating is it’s based on their ability of what they can give and not what we think they will give. And so that could be two completely different numbers, right? You might be talking to your board members and your board will say, you know, well, andre, go in either direction. Right? So the conversation might be something like, um, you know, where we really think that this person that we, the board, think this person is certainly capable of contributing to our annual campaign or our capital campaign at a level of, you know, five thousand dollars and, you know, maybe your research reveals that this person, you know, has never given anywhere near that amount. Maybe all of the donations use i’ve ever been able to find out what they give to other organizations in your community. Maybe two hundred dollars, and below. So certainly, you know, you wanted to raid it in that you know appropriately in terms of their ratings for the ability, but it could also be in the other direction so the conversation could be g we think this person capable of donating five thousand dollars and your research reveals that in fact there, you know, they made in the past in the recent past a twenty five thousand dollars, um, commitment to another organization. So knowing that you’re potentially leaving money on the table by not asking for a higher amount. Yes. Okay. Okay. Let’s, uh, let’s go out for our break a little early and if there’s more to say about ability, of course we will. And then we’ll we’ll cover interest, and then we got to put this all together. What the heck do we do with all this info that we’ve got? Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there? A better way there is. Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. The small midsize shops that’s who were always about i got live listener love, cartersville, georgia. Marquette, michigan, san francisco, california, duncanville, texas cool and carmel, indiana special belated birthday wishes out the carmel, indiana live listener loved to each of you there’s others out there don’t fret if you’re still listening, there’s others out there and more live listener love coming. And of course, we’ve got our podcast pleasantries for everybody listening some other time on some other device unknown to may be many of us, but pleasantries to the ten thousand podcast listeners, and we got more. We got more love coming out, so don’t worry about that affiliate affections. All right, maria, um, anything more that we want to say about ability, that the person’s ability to make a gift, how much we think they can they’re capable of giving now, i think i’ll stay a little bit more about it in the next few minutes after we cover interest, because i want to go over some general levels of ability, so we’ll get into that when we get into the rating, okay, be little mysterious on me. Okay, that’s. All right. Okay, then. Let’s, let’s go to our interest. What is this about? So, really, you know, here we’re trying to understand, you know, if they could really be engaged in the organization, how interested are they? Do they have a specific area of interest, you know, are they connected to you because of a particular passion that they have or maybe there’s something that actually connects them to your program? You know, maybe you serve people with disabilities, and they have ah, family member, a close family member who is, you know, has disabilities and may or may not be using your services currently, you know, so what happens here is that, you know, way understand their interest so that we can fulfill a need that they have to make the world a better place. Um, and then, you know, they’re really going to be only too happy to invest in your mission or your services or your building campaign or, you know, whatever other major campaign you’re doing, perhaps an endowment campaign or a legacy planned gift campaign. So, you know, you’re really looking to fulfill a need that they have understand what they’re interested in and helping them fulfill their mission. So, you know, having a general idea of what they’re interested in is certainly going to come into play in your overall research right now, someone could be, you know, very closely connected under linkage and have very high ability, but maybe maybe they’re not connected. Maybe maybe they’re not well now, if they’re not, if they’re connected, there wouldn’t be uninterested. Let’s see, i guess around my point is someone could be very high in one or two of these, but quite low in another one that’s, right? Like maybe interest, maybe interest is very high ability is very high, but linkage, nobody knows them, they’re not connected to us at all, exactly. And then and then what do we do there? We’ve really got to find a path to that individual because, you know, if they have ah, hi ability than it’s pretty darn likely that you’re not the only person knocking on their door trying to get a gift. And now this can also apply for foundations and corporations to right. This is not just individual ratings or what you know, i want to apply this more. For individual ratings. But, you know, i suppose it could certainly apply for for foundations and corporations as well. So much of what i focus is on is individuals, but i think you could probably apply this very same formula to your foundation, corporations and corporations. I’m thinking, especially local businesses, local corporations. I mean, i guess it could apply for bigger ones too. But, you know, if your if your campaign is around cultivating local local business people, and then i think these things would apply equally. Yeah. Okay. All right. So we got are lei i laid out. Now what the heck we could do with this. Okay, so well, let’s talk about a typical rating system and how you would potentially callie up some points because what we’re trying to do here ultimately is trying to figure out who are our best prospects. Where should we be focusing our time? So this is a very general number that you might suffer in this rating process is going involved. Mathematics? Yes, very simple math, because, look, i’m not a math person either. All right, you’re probably more of a math person than maybe implant giving. You have to. Do division. No, i think i really think it’s just straight up addition. Alright. Additions. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Especially as long. There’s. No log. Arrhythmic found formulas or no, no, nothing like that. Okay, the total number of points that you can get is fifteen. Okay, your absolute best prospect is going to be raided. A fifteen. And this is how it breaks out. By the way, i got this off of a document that i found on a peace website. So if you just google les i principal it’s probably one of the first three hit that you’ll get on google lay our principal. Okay, but can we also get you? Teo posted as a comment on the on the facebook page. Takeaway here it’ll be up by three thirty or forty no around four o’clock eastern today. Could you do that? Sure. Thank you. Alright, so go ahead. So fifteen so linkage. So you’re going to go from a score of zero through four xero would be if there’s absolutely no record of giving and no contact with that donor that they’re rated xero for linkage. Okay, alright. So there’s? Yeah. There’s what i was talking about before somebody could be very low in something, okay, you’re xero now you said, xero four, can you do one to five? Um, well, for purposes of the download that i got from a p, it went from zero to four, so one would be if they made a pledge, but no gift, or maybe a one time or a memorial gift. Your organization. I’m just making trouble. All right? Xero will still xero before i prefer one to five, but we’ll go with yours. Okay, good. Um, two would be if they relapsed, or just an occasional donor. Your organization three would be if there are frequent donor let’s, say annually, but number four would be if there are frequent or current major gift donor-centric. The best would be five since i since i said at the outset, we have a maximum of fifteen points. We’d have to kind of stick with xero through four rating system for the purposes of this discussion anyway. Oh, so they’re not all going to be zero to four then, okay? Because correct, because that would only be twelve c i can multi actually multiplied, actually. Just multiplied three times for so you know, so give me a break. All right? All right. So go ahead. Now. Ability. We have different now. How many? How many do they break out to ability xero what? Seven. Okay. Let’s. Just seven. Okay. Ah, let’s. Just let’s. Just sample them a little bit let’s, not read all seven categories. Okay, so there will be if they’ve given you from one to twenty four hundred dollars, a four would be somewhere between fifty and nine. Ninety nine thousand dollars on day seven would be five hundred thousand and above all right. But of course you would. You would scale that to your organization if your largest if the largest gift you’ve ever gotten is one hundred fifty thousand dollars, no point in having half a million dollars on your scale. Right. So you scale, you scale your scale appropriately scale the scale. All right. I hope you haven’t from with this, because i am. I don’t know if i can’t tell if you are, but maybe it’s, maybe it’s tze pretty new to me, so i’m enjoying it. Okay, what do we do? S o that’s xero to seven for ability. You’re recommend, right? So we got four and seven. Eleven. So the next one must only go xero toe four. Yes, exactly. Xero for instruction at that time, i did subtraction. All right, go ahead. Interested xero no interest, no knowledge or very minimal knowledge. Okay. In your organization, on at the other end of the scale of four would mean that they’re actively involved in your organization. They volunteer. Or perhaps they’re aboard, or even a past boardmember right? Or maybe think about even a past honoree. So so for many organizations where an annual gala within an honoree is is somebody you know, if you haven’t honoree like that, certainly they would have had some more in depth connection to your organization. Hopefully, yes. Okay. There’s a good ones. Especially. Honoree that’s that’s one people might not have thought of, but all right, it’s it’s cool. All right, so we have totals in each of our three categories. I’m guessing we’re going to add these up, right? So then you would add them up. And as i said, you have a maximum of fifteen. So now you have some decisions to make, right? Like, what is that minimum score that your organization is going to need to have in place before you put that person into a a pipeline for one on one cultivation and solicitation? Right? Because you’re only gonna have, you know, so much staff and or so many board members committed to helping you reach out to do some of these major gift solicitation efforts. You know, you have to figure out how many prospects can we end up with that’s going to be manageable? Because if you give somebody an unmanageable number than people get overwhelmed and what’s gonna happen, they’re probably not going to do an awful lot. No, you know what i look? You know what i love about this is for small and midsize shops. This replaces what could be a very expensive wealth screening process and, you know, the compay cos teo to do that for you, and then they’ll stratify you’re prospects on dh. Then you’ll you’ll proceed from there, but this is for for smaller shops, you know, there’s time involved in doing the research here, but but if you could do that, um, it’s a way of stratify ing your prospects and then you got your you got your what was the top score again? Fifteen. You got your you got your fifteen toe, you know, maybe you’re fifteen to thirteen is your top prospects and then twelve to ten. Obviously, second tier, you know, but you stratify and then you apply resource is appropriately. Does that sound that’s unreasonable? Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, you mentioned well screening. And even if you had or are planning to have a wealth screening done that’s really going to help answer that that a part of ability helpyou, stratify where they could potentially be giving to you. So, you know, maybe you know about linkage to your organization. Maybe you know, about interest and maybe a wealth screening. Is what’s going to help you really flesh out what their ability is? Without, you know, doing major in depth research like i would normally dio i mean, you know, if you’ve got access to a wealth screening product, definitely see what the what the screening rating is going to be, even on that process through the product that you’re using. Okay? All right, so you’re now you were saying that i guess there’s a threshold may be below which you would not apply resource is, you know, maybe it’s i don’t know, i think it would depend organization by organization, but like, maybe it’s five or seven or something below a scorer now that my reaction to tony was maybe a five or seven for a small organization where, you know, you really have very limited manpower, both on staff and volunteer side. Um, yeah, you don’t want to discount anybody have again, you have to apply resource is smartly, exactly every potential, you know, every potential donorsearch can’t be can’t be pursued, but you know what else this does? It helps you see where you might have weaknesses with prospect, who would otherwise be strong. So in our example, you know, if ability and interests are high but linkages low and that puts the person below whatever you’re cut off is let’s say, it’s seven there i did division again, i was taking half the score. I’m like my mathematics game if there’s seven or below, but that’s, because they’re linkage is really low, but ability and interest are are doing well, then, you know, maybe now you’ve identified somebody who you want to try to get close to the organization and maybe that doesn’t take so much to do, you know, you know what i mean? Yeah, exactly. And it could be just, you know, a matter of sitting around and and having a very concentrated development committee meeting where you’re able to then try and figure out. Okay, look, these are our prospects that rated pretty highly for ability and interest if we could only determine what the linkage piece is, you know, so and that’s that would be a really good exercise to engage your board members in the fund-raising process because it’s still part of the process, right? It’s it’s just that there may be not involved in the direct ask because, sure, there are certainly a lot of board members who say i’ll do anything for you in the development process just don’t make me do the ad, so this is a a terrific way to engage them in the fund-raising process, and maybe they would get excited about, you know, getting out, doing some of those ass also interest mean ability, we’ve gotta face it ability is not much organization could do around ability, but interest, like if linkage is high ah, an ability is high, but the person just hasn’t shown a lot of interest. Maybe now maybe they’re not interested so that, you know, i have to consider that possibility. They just may not be interested, but if you’re not convinced that that’s the case, you know, maybe there’s some program or something that you can use as a connection and use your linkage, their relationship to try to get that person more interested in your work because they they rated low in that in that part, right, that that would be a great use of a cultivation event, for example, san, is that pool of people i’m seeing this as a way not to just stratify people, but also identify where weaknesses are with with potential donors and where you might apply. Some resource is to get them rated hyre in your l a i system? Absolutely. All right, we got another minute or so. Is that right, sam got? Yeah, just another minute or so, maria, you wantto leave us with something around l a i well, you know, good research is really what enables matching the prospects with e-giving opportunities, right again, as i said, so you’re fulfilling a need that they have to make the world a better place. So e i think if you just sort of keep that at the forefront of everything that you’re doing using the lazy eye principle, um, and always making sure that everything that you’re doing in terms of your communications, any engagement that you have with people, make it his donor-centric a possible it’s, not about you the organization. Okay, ultimately, yes, it is. But when you’re talking with people it’s, it’s trying to find that point of engagement that’s really going to get them excited and motivated and really want them to make an investment in your cause. Maria simple, the prospect finder dot com and at marie a simple thank you very much. Maria semple. Great. Thanks a lot. Always a pleasure to have you. Thank you. Hope you don’t mind that i had some fun with the l a i i don’t think so. You don’t take that stuff personal. Tony, take two and crowdfunding legal tips coming up first opportunity collaboration it’s a week long unconference in x top of mexico in october, around poverty alleviation, it’s structured but it’s, unstructured it’s structured with lots of unstructured time. So you, khun may connections and get to know the people who can help you with your work. There’s over three hundred people there you meet over meals. Drink. You mean in the ocean i had i had meetings with two women who became guests of the show we met in the ocean. It was nina chanpreet core and lena srivastava. They were on after i met them in the ocean. Well, we met on land, but then we planned our meeting for in the ocean. Um it’s ah, no power points, no keynotes. Every session is in a circle very collaborative. And i think you’re getting a sense of how it’s, not like other conference, is much better. I loved it last year and i’m going again this year in october opportunity collaboration, dot net non-profit radio is going west. We headed to phoenix actually leave tomorrow. Phoenix, l a san francisco, and in portland if you’re in any of those areas or between l a and san francisco, because i’ll be driving, then ah let’s, try to meet up my itinerary and video are at tony martignetti dot com third sector today. That’s ah, site run by amy davina. She has lots of contributors, including marie, a sample i was going to ask maria simple about that i’m going to see if she’s defecting the third certain sector today i doubt it, but she was on. Was it contributed to third sector today? Um, they have tips, strategy’s, good ideas for non-profits they are at third sector today dot com and they are at third sector today on twitter, but the third is the number three, of course that’s thea arabic number three not the roman numeral three don’t do ii rd do at arabic number three rd sector today on twitter use the arabic number that’s tony’s take two for friday, twenty second of may twenty first show of this year and now i’m very glad. That gene takagi is with me he’s, the managing editor of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco, he edits the popular non-profit lob log, dot com and on g tack on twitter. He is gi tak, which is much easier than third sector because there’s no arabic numbers to explain whether used the arabic or the roman. Aggie tak, welcome back durney great to be back. Thank you, and i’m looking forward to seeing you on my west coast trip in ten days or so. Absolutely, yeah, we’re going to sit down that’ll be a pleasure. Um, you’re concerned about our brand in our name and there’s, a legal issues you want people to be aware of around the very popular crowd funding sites, right? And i’m actually picking up off your conversation with aimee semple ward of and ten last week last night. Yes, you are. Ah, and you know amy and you discuss sort of the differences between an individual raising funds for a charitable purpose, like for the victims of of the earthquakes in nepal and a charity actually raising funds, and amy was pointing out how individuals through go fund me had actually raised almost double. What a big charity half for that. And so i just wanted to work off that a little bit about about saying, well, when people give a contribution to an individual, even if it’s for charitable purposes, there is no charitable deduction for that gift. Where if they make the donation to a charity, that’s using a crowd funding site named this’s done properly, they can get a deduction for the gift of doom, or little little intricacies involved. But that’s a huge difference. Okay, wait now, if we give to an individual’s crowd funding campaign. But as amy and i were talking about there’s, there’s, there’s pretty simple ways of getting the money directly to the charity so that the individual doesn’t doesn’t have to pass it on and and then so if we so if the person has that set up, and then we get an acknowledgement from the charity, can’t we get a can we get a charitable income tax deduction that way? Yeah, that would be where an individual is authorised by the charity to represent the charity and set up the crowd funding site. But much of crowdfunding is done by individuals who are just doing it for charitable purposes, and amy mentioned example of somebody saying, well, you know, i have friends who are on the site in the paul, and if we get them the money, they can help victims immediately, directly themselves, and it doesn’t have to go through any bureaucracy, all right? Okay, well, that’s not using a charity and they’re not going to get a receipt from a charity for that type of donation. There was a fire in san francisco. I believe it was last month and a ninja vigil wanted to raise funds. Really? Charitably inclined, well intended on. And what he did was he raised one hundred fifty thousand, which he had no idea he was going to raise that much. I think he was planning to raise a few thousand to help some of the victims of that fire. He raised one hundred fifty thousand dollars. And, of course, if you give it to an individual, that the individual has no power to say that you gave it to a five, twenty three organization, and therefore you get no deduction. Okay, okay, i see. I see the distinction. Yes, all right. We also need to be aware of who is raising money under our name. Yeah, absolutely. So if charities are involved in an individual says to you, well, i’d like to raise money for your project, and i want to use a crowd funding site. The game has got that problem about, well, whether the charity is actually the named recipient on the crowdfunding site for the donations or where the individual is, and the individual’s own account is collecting the money, and then the individual man transferred that money to the charity again, you have the problem of the donor getting no receipt from the charity because the donation the check wasn’t actually to the charity was, too the crowdfunding site sort of processor that’s going to the individual and not to the charity it all unless that set up separately so that that the charity is the recipient and the individuals is basically just the agent, whether an employee or a volunteer that set it up for the charity that the donor has got to really beware of that, and of course, donors have to be where if they ever give two individuals because maybe doesn’t go to the victims of the earthquake in nepal are the victims of the fire in san francisco. Maybe itjust goes into somebody’s pocket, and you don’t really know how, because that may never get reported that’s true and and on the charity side, it seems like it would be its worth is investigating to see whether your name is being used by people that you haven’t authorized. Yeah, but how can we do that? That’s a great point, i think the easiest way to do it is just to google the charity’s name once a while, and you might even google it with the term crowdfunding just to check to see if anybody is started. A crowdfunding campaign with the name of your charity, but you’re actually not seeing any of those funds, and sometimes when they have checks, go out to the acronym of your charity. It’s very easy to set up before profit business with the same acronym and have all the funds go into that account. So fraud is a possibility, like when when you’re giving crowdfunding sites. So you want a cz a donor again? You want to be really careful about making sure that any donation that you make through a crowd funding site is actually going to the chair. I never thought of that setting up. See, i’m not a savvy thinker like these criminals are, and frankly, i never thought of incorporating a business that has the same initials as ah, as a charity as a big time charity and then and then collecting checks. Yeah, it’s actually a good tip for internal controls of the own organization because any volunteer or employee that handles cheques could also do the same thing with acronyms. So be very careful about that in your internal control you mentioned doing searches, but, you know, even severe way is and i i think every organization should do this is have alerts set for your name, whether it’s google alerts now, some time ago, maria and i talked about how google alerts were not really being not very sophisticated, and we weren’t even sure they were still supported. But there are other alert it’s companies that are free, they’ll give you a free like mention dot net is one that i use for my name and also for the hashtag non-profit radio and they give you a couple for free. Then. After that, you have to pay. But i think it’s, very smart. And then i have other alerts for my company and the show name and everything. I think it’s very smart to have alerts set for your organization name so that you you find out when it pops up real, you know, real time or near real time buy-in blog’s or on sites or, you know, wherever i think that’s fantastic advice in the press. Yeah, probably somebody might write about you in the press. Yeah, so all right, but from a risk management perspective, too. All right, gene pool. Uh, and, you know, beyond even the deductibility donation issue, if somebody’s using your name out there and harming it in any way your, you know, the loss of the value of your brand and the trust of the community is far more can be far more important than any loss of deduction by don’t. Yes, for sure, we’ve talked about that reputation. Um, what if we’re thinking about a cz, an organization engaging on a crowd funding site? We’re thinking about having a campaign, maybe it’s around an event, maybe it’s around a program or a building whatever it is. What? What? What tips? You have fur going about this dahna great question. And there there are so many crowdfunding sites out there. There are few that people are are well aware of who you are. Many people are well aware of, like kickstarter and indeed go go, go fund me or just a few of those, but there are literally thousands of crowd funding sites out there now, and you want to make sure that you’re connected. If you do connect with a crowd funding site that you’re connected with a very good one with very strong reputation with the clear understanding of what the terms are of the agreement and what type of seas they may be collecting, they also may be regulated if they’re providing fund-raising solicitation service gettinto, you’re getting into the whole morass now with the charity registrations, charity solicitation, registration morass yeah, which you’re an expert at, you know, if you know if there’s soliciting for you, if they’re controlling or receiving any money on behalf of your charity, and not just threw a payment processor like paypal, but they’re actually controlling it in one of their account or even if they’re advising you as to what to put in the content of your fund-raising solicitations, then they may be regulated as a commercial or professional fundraiser, or is fund-raising council basically anybody that’s soliciting or providing advice to the charity on solicitations and that’s, a regulated, regulated area that they’re gonna have to think about registering not only in the state in which they might be located, but in any state in which they’re engaging in felicitations without spending that could be all states so that’s something to be very careful now that okay, let’s, let’s, be careful now. That would be a burden if they were considered. And of course, the laws vary state by state. This is why it’s such a huge morass. I was going to use an expletive, but we’re on too many terrestrial affiliates. I can’t do that but it’s a morass. Okay, so because the different state laws but if a crowd funding site operator was considered a commercial now i lost it a fund-raising fund-raising counsel or you are a professional solicitor. Then you’re saying that that site would have to register, right? Yeah. That’s like would have to register. And the charity actually has some responsibility as well to make sure that they’re not engaging in a contract with a commercial fund-raising professional fundraiser fund-raising solicitor fund-raising counsel that is not registered, right? Well, then there’s disclose yes, the organization has the obligation in a lot of states to disclose those relationships and also teo disclose the start of any solicitation campaign using one of those individuals or companies, right? Right, whether it’s, crowdfunding or not, but let’s try to stick with crowdfunding, alright, i don’t wanna lose anybody here, okay, that for that morass, i think that’s as deep as we can go, but you have a but let’s give you a shout out. You have an article on this not that we’re wrapping up or anything, but on this solicitation and solicitation registration issue and on the issue that that the crowdfunding site operators could be considered fund-raising council, et cetera. Right? You have some blood post on that right at non-profit law block dot com? Yeah, definitely. If you just do a search on the block sight on crowdfunding, you’ll see a number of articles. Okay, some of them discussed that issue. Okay. Excellent. Right. But let’s weigh. Just have a minute and a half, by the way, before our break. Let’s, let’s, look at some other tips. I mean, if you’re if you’re going out to a crowd funding, you’re evaluating crowd funding sites. What what other things should you be looking about? Well, i think you want to look at how the system works, though some crowd funding sites are actually set up, his donor advised funds and that’s where their charities themselves and if they are charity themselves, what they’re going to do is they’re going to take the donation, which is going to be made in their name, and they’re going to take the advice of the donor to re grant it to your charity, but they actually don’t have the legal obligation to re granted to your charity. In that case, the only time when that’s really at risk if your charity happens to be in trouble, basically with the irs and spider onesie, tree status is in dispute or the attorney general is thing you’re doing something unlawful, then the crowdfunding site that’s a donor buy-in fund may decide that it’s not going to re granted to your charity and still re granted toe another organization with the same charitable purpose. So that’s. One thing to think about is what type of entity, whether the charitable entity or for-profit, ended the year crowdfunding site. Alright, let’s, we’ve got to go out for our break. We got some more tips that gene will share and got you some more live listener love, so stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m peter shankman, author of zombie loyalists, and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Time to send affiliate affections to all our affiliates around the country, especially jet out for k y our s. But all the affiliates love the am fm stations that are part of the non-profit radio. I don’t know, empire is that? Is that overstating it is ah, network. Maybe network is more appropriate. Empire maybe empire in june. By then it’ll be an empire. Let’s uh, let’s do more live listen love new bern, north carolina and tuscaloosa, alabama live listener love out to you and let’s go abroad. We have ah couple in japan, okazaki. And also super imahara, japan. Konnichiwa, brahma, sweden is with us. Welcome brahma, sweden. I don’t i don’t know how to say in your language, what’s the closest i can get our union. Yes, germany. Guten dog. But i know you don’t speak german in sweden and cerini i i know that but that’s that’s about the closest i can come. But i do know that seoul, south korea, multiple, as always on io haserot italy is with us, but i can’t see the city. Italy. I don’t know what you’re always masked. I don’t know you, roma. Vanessa. Uh, not really, gioia. Tauro, one of the chinchilla terra cities manure ola real majority i’ve been to all of them i wish i knew where you were, but live listen love to italy and also moving up north to ontario, canada sudbury live listen, love there also sorry jean had too little world tour. I hope you don’t mind that i love hearing where all the listeners in-kind that’s cool, is it? Yes around world. Unbelievable. Brahma, sweden i love that. Um, okay, more tips for evaluating on dh comparing potential crowd funding sites that we might use? Sure, i mean, one of the things that you have to look at is whether the crowdfunding site has rules about making a charitable contributions through their sight or not. So kickstarter doesn’t allow for general unsupportive solicitation and sorry, i’m restricted solicitations you have to solicit for a particular project starter, okay, so if you solicit for particular project now, you’re raising just restricted funds and not unrestricted funds. So you’ve got to make sure that you’re counting systems and that your your infrastructure is is ready to support that. You also have to figure out whether you’re issuing the proper type of receipt. To donors. So in kickstarter, again, if you’re raising for a particular project and tip what is very typical for kick starters, you raise funds and you give something to the donor or the or the contributor to the campaign in return for that a right, too, the first production of a book or were some some benefit there? So now you’ve got a quid pro quo contribution potentially if it’s not just the low cost of minimus item and you’ve got an issue, a proper receipt to that donor that says, well, here’s, your gift of one hundred dollars, but you received something of value of twenty five dollars, in return. Therefore, duck double portion of that payment is seventy five dollars. Something like that has got to be given to the donor, and if the crowdfunding site isn’t able to facilitate the charity to be ableto offer those proper quid pro quo disclosure statements, then you’ve got a problem. You just gotta make sure that your crowd funding sites are where the charity laws well, okay, there’s also a potential fees the side to make money sometimes off the off the money that’s raised so there’s feet potential and then also donors in formacion some of the sights will not share the donor information with you, ray, which is, which is a problem in fees. Yes, you do want to compare fees to make sure that they’re not exorbitant in relation to the type of campaign that you want to conduct. And it also may indicate whether the crowdfunding site operators operating with in-kind of the ethical parameters that charity’s think that they operate. And so for example, if a crowd funding site and i don’t believe any of the major ones do this. But if a crowd funding site is saying, we want to take a portion a percentage of your donations that let’s say exceeds ten percent or twenty percent, that that may really be a problem, and you may actually run into other regulated areas if you start to take a exorbitant fees where you’re actually sharing donations with a for-profit entity oh my yeah, i could see trouble there. Ok, ok, go ahead. Sorry, but typical a credit card processing fees three and a half percent on goff often there’s kind of ah, crowdfunding site c to provide that platform for you and then the credit card processing the to taking those donations. So, you know, anywhere, uh, you know, three to four to five percent for each of those things are a total of up to ten percent. It’s probably pretty common amongst the big crowd funding site operators. Okay, okay, privacy issues, right? There’s the issue we just mentioned are they sharing the donor information with you but privacy information? What are they doing with the data? People’s people’s data? Yeah, absolutely. And that’s another issue about whether they’re regulated, professional or not. So without diving into that too deep, if they’re really just providing the platform for you, they have to disclose your donors. And if they’re not willing to disclose your donors, you have a problem because that that information you’re entitled to and in many cases, you may have to report that if it’s a large contribution to the i r s as well so that’s that’s just ah, something that you need. I think when a charity uses a crowd funding site in terms of protecting the privacy of the donors, you do absolutely want to take a look at the crowd funding site operators privacy policy tto find out whether the donors that are contributing there are are going to be now subject to a bunch of others similar campaigns and have their emails splendid with solicitation or whether they’re going to give up other, you know, information that might create both legal or just a donor relation problems for your charity. We just have about a minute and a half left one minute actually left. Just today in the chronicle of philanthropy, i saw the minnesota attorney general suing a company called savers, and they’re they’re a brick and mortar store, and they give part of their part of the revenue or from items they sell goes to charity. But the charity’s aren’t being sued, but they’re being named and he was, like disabled american veterans, absolute epilepsy foundation, lupus foundation. So, you know, this is all related to your point that reputation could be out there even if you’re not doing something wrong. Yeah, and why you talked about monitoring how your organization is being used? Because sometimes and they don’t know about this particular case, but sometimes a commercial code venture, which is a little bit of a jargon the term but any for-profit that uses the charity’s name to say, well, if you buy from us will give a portion of the proceeds to this charity may be done without your knowing it as a charity, not knowing that they’re using your name and they should obviously be be letting you know that that’s happening. But you you do have a responsibility as a charity to make sure that, you know, when somebody’s conducting a campaign like that, we have two reportedly on your behalf. Jane, we have to leave it there. I thank you very much. I look forward to seeing you in ten days or so. Jean takagi at g tack on twitter and the non-profit lob log dot com thank you very much, gene. Thanks, tony. See, you bet next week to ntcdinosaur views emerging tech trends and now get buy-in if you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com where else would you go? Opportunity collaboration with world convenes for poverty alleviation. It’s outstanding and it’ll ruin you for every other conference opportunity collaboration dot net. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff sound. Liebowitz is on the board as the line producer shows. Social media is by susan chavez, susan chavez, dot com and our music is by scott stein. I love when he affirms what i just said. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything people don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine am or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.