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Nonprofit Radio for October 18, 2019: Scale Up & Sustain

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Kathleen Kelly Janus: Scale Up & Sustain
It’s a question I hear often from nonprofit leaders: “How does my organization get to the next level?” Kathleen Kelly Janus’s research leads her to the answers and she shares them with you. Her book is “Social Startup Success.” (Originally aired 12/8/17)

 

 

 

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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with Wall I if I saw that you missed today’s show Scale Up and sustain. It’s a question I hear often from non-profit leaders. How does my organization get to the next level? Kathleen Kelly. Janice’s research leads her to the answers, and she shares them with you. Her book is Social startup Success that originally aired on December 8th 2017 on Tony’s take to share Share. That’s fair, Responsive by Wagner C. P A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com Bye Cougar Mountain Software Denali, fundez They’re Complete accounting Solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn, to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to DOT CEO. Here’s scale up and sustain. I’m very glad to welcome Kathleen Kelly Janice to the show. She is a social entrepreneur, author and lecturer at Stanford University. Her work in philanthropy, millennial millennial engagement and scaling Early stage organizations has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Huffington Post, Stanford Social Innovation Review, non-profit radio Is there TechCrunch and The San Francisco Chronicle I’ve been in the Wall Street Journal, too. So you know, she’s the co founder of Spark. I haven’t cofounded anything. That’s the largest network of millennial donors in the world. Her new book is Social Startup Success. How the best non-profits launch scale up and make a difference. She’s at K k. Janice. And I’m very glad and pleased. Thrilled that Kathleen’s book brings her to non-profit Radio Welcome, Kathleen Kelly. Janice, Thank you so much for having me, Tony. It’s my place. My real pleasure. I am. I am anxious to talk to you about this book. As anxious as I was to read it because I do always get that question. How do we get to the next level? And, um, I believe you have Ah, I believe you have the answer. Answers answers. I believe you can point us in the right direction. I hope so. Okay. Okay. I wanna, um I’m gonna start with reading something. I’m actually gonna start with the conclusion of your book. Thats paragraph just struck me. So, um, it says the journey and we’re gonna talk about your journey has made me even more keenly aware of how many non-profits are operating on a month to month basis, scrambling to raise money to sustain them. While so much innovation has occurred in the nonprofit world in recent decades, my conversations with organizational leaders and my observations of their daily routines have impressed upon me how considerable the challenges any non-profit faces are, no matter how innovative it’s model or impactful its services. What’s going on out there? Kathleen Kelly Johnson. Janice Well, I think you you really summed it up nicely there. Those are your words, not mine. I just You summed it up. I just I’m a copycat. What what’s happening is that we’re on the one hand, living in a philanthropic renaissance. It’s a really exciting time for non-profit innovation. So many in-kind credible ideas are happening, and I’ve really had a front row seat here in the Silicon Valley, watching so many non-profits capitalizing on Ah, lot of the growth that we’ve seen in the tech industry as well. Organizations like Key by using crowdfunding Thio be able to support organizations in the developing world. And then, on the other hand, we have so many incredible ideas that are dying on the vine because organizations can’t get the financial support that they need to get to the next level to get to a level of sustainability. And I became really interested in the question myself. I was really, really curious. Why are some organizations succeeding and wire others really flailing? And it turns out that in fact, 2/3 of non-profits in the United States air $500,000 in below revenue. And many of these organizations should stay small community based organizations and are feeling an important role in the non-profit community. But many of these organizations want to scale. They figured out a proven model that is working to support their beneficiaries. Thio help create a more just world, and they simply can’t get the capital they need to grow. And so my research really explores the foundations of success. What is it that organizations need to do in order to take that next step in to grow their impact to the next level? Yeah, you talk about the struggle to scale, which is essentially what you just said even more eloquently. Um, see. So let’s, um we’re not gonna have time to go through the the entire book. You know, you’ve got five elements of what you think. It takes toe scale and be sustainable. Um, so I’m just gonna start with encouraging people. You just, you know, if you want to get to the next level, you just got a by the book. I mean, that non-profit radio is good as it is. Cannot substitute for this for this book, so all right, I may mention that a couple times. So why don’t you walk us through the five parts of what you believe? You know, your research has, um, lead youto t believe you are the essential parts of what, What’s needed? Sure. So there’s five strategies that I identify that came up over and over again in the 100 interviews that I did around the country of organizations that have scaled past $2 million and beyond. And and that’s really the level that I define as a certain level of sustainability. Um and so the organizations that tend to scale really all exhibited thes five strategies. So the 1st 1 is that They began testing their ideas very early on and before they went out and raised money. They figured out some ways to pilot the program so that they could figure out what was working at what was not so. But by the time they went out to market, they they had some impact to show. When we’re able to get funded for that and and B, we’re able to then integrate a culture of innovation that helped them constantly improve their models as they grow. The second strategy is that these organizations that the organizations that tended to scale more quickly in a large survey that I did the survey results show that these organizations, we’re able to say that they began measuring impact from the very start from Day one, and that’s not make sense because those are the organizations that were able to go out, and Thio show donors that they were having an impact and, um but those are also the organizations that are able to increase their impact by letting go programs that aren’t working or tweaking them and making them better, so that impact measurement is really key and it’s often something that organizations struggle with the third strategy is funding experimentation and developing a plan to test both earned income sources as well as philanthropic income, to figure out a funding model that works, Um, and Thio to be able to take the organization to scale. There is no one size fits all sending model for nonprofit organizations. Every organization has to figure out what’s gonna work for them. And so putting some processes in place to test out different sources of income is gonna be the best way for organizations to figure out what that is. The fourth strategy is developing a culture of collective leadership. I think we all have this tendency in in today’s society thio to revere the founder to put founders on the pedestal, whether it’s in the for-profit world. Mark Zuckerberg, the founder of Facebook or associating Apple with Steve Jobs or even in the nonprofit world. And you know, the quintessential um example, is Mohammed Yunus is the is the founder of the Grameen Bank and won the Nobel Prize, and leaders should be honored. But at the same time, they’re the best organizations figure out that greatness is not built on one person. It’s built on the backs of teamwork and the best organizations figure out how to bring in senior leadership early on so that founders can go out and spend time on fund-raising and strategy that they have really strong, um, boards of directors that help help them grow their organization. And they flipped that hierarchical pyramid on its head and put the staff up front because they realized that their staff are the ones that are on the front lines. Making an impact and have the closest connections, often to the beneficiaries, is really the key to their work. The final strategy is storytelling with purpose. I think we all have a tendency to listen Thio a Ted talk or ah, great political speech and think, Wow, that person is just a natural. But when I went out and talked with all of these leaders, the best storytellers spend a lot of time practicing their craft. I had one social entrepreneur tell me that her she she’s an Olympic athlete, and her Olympic sport is storytelling and speech making and because she could be speaking the word of God. But if it’s told in a boring way, then no one’s gonna listen to her and these leaders figure out that that organizations can have impact when they’re able to build a movement, and that comes with telling a good story and getting people on board. And it’s not just at the leadership level, is at every level of the organization, because these organizations realize that staff members, board members, beneficiaries and champions can all be brand ambassadors for their organizations. And so they work hard. Thio help them with their storytelling so that everybody can go out and be champions for the cause of the five strategies. And to me, what was most exciting about this research is that I kept waiting for someone to say, You know, it’s just charisma or grid. You are some sort of innate trait that makes an organization succeed or not, but no one said that on. In fact, it really came down Thio thes strategies that any non-profit can implement no matter what kind of resources they have at their fingertips. Kathleen Kathleen Way, It’s time for a break. I wanted to do the overview. Hang with me while, uh, what we take a break. It’s time for a break. Wagner. CPS. Does your accountant return your calls and emails that they keep up to their deadlines. Do you like them? You get along with them. Are the keeping mistakes to a minimum? If these aren’t all yeses, then maybe it’s time to look for a replacement. And, you know, a partner at an accounting firm. You know, partner Wagner, CPS. He’s eat duitz tomb. He’s been on the show a couple times. Check out wagon cps dot com. Then talk to you. Eat, See if they can help you out. Wagner cps dot com Now let’s go back to scale up and sustain. I want to do some of our live Listen, love. Okay, Kathleen, you are there, right? Yes, Absolutely. Okay. Wonderful. I feel like doing the live. Listen, I love a little early, so let’s shout out to Tampa, Florida. Would Ridge, New Jersey Woodbridge so consistent with the listening? I don’t believe it. Would you please identify yourself? Woodbridge, New Jersey. Please come forward. I want to shout you out in person. Um, New York, New York. Multiple New York, New York. We’ve got, uh, Charlotte, North Carolina live listener love by going after Charlotte and Jersey City, New Jersey. My, my uh, my dad’s my dad’s hometown. That’s where he was born on McAdoo F. Jersey City, New Jersey. Live listeners love to you. College station. Texas is with us. So our, uh Germany Boudin tog Seoul, South Korea on your haserot. Come. Zoho Mita, Mexico City. Yes. Mexico City, Mexico. We got multiple there. Good afternoon. Born a swat? Bona Bona Santa. That’s it. It’s Italy. When a start is is it leave with us born Asada. If you are, Tehran is with us and took a result. Japan and the United Kingdom live list here. Love to each of you. We’re gonna divide it up today. The other 2/3 are gonna come. Ah, a little later on. All right, Kathleen. Now you don’t You don’t like to go by, uh, Katie or Kate or Cather. Kay, You’re strictly a Kathleen girl. Is that right? My name Kathleen. Okay. No, Katie’s. Okay. Okay. Um, let’s talk about your journeys. I mentioned in when I read a little bit from the conclusion you’re parents were very active and promoted a spirit of giving when you were young. This is That seems to be the genesis of your interest in this hole in the whole sector. It was definitely an inspiration for me. I’m really lucky that I grew up in this amazing little small town in Napa, California and my parents were very involved in the non-profit Ah, sector. My dad was a community banker and my mom was a teacher, and they they served on dozens of non-profit boards throughout the year. So when I think about our weekends, we often spent time volunteering in soup kitchens or serving at the local medical clinic for low income workers. But our volunteer efforts didn’t end there. We we sat around the dinner table and talked about how organizations often struggle. So my parents were talking about fundraisers they were hosting. Thio. Try and help support an organization that was struggling to get the resource. Is that needed to do that important service work that were involved in this was actually this was dinner table conversation for you. Yeah, that’s you know that that’s that’s Ah, that’s not common, right? E didn’t know any different. I know, I know. Yeah, but you know, it’s not it’s not. I mean, I know you’ve realized that since then, but, uh, that’s a remarkable Okay, I’m sorry. It’s just That’s just remarkable as I was reading about you having these conversations with your parents about sustainability, even though that word we weren’t using that word. But that’s what you were talking about. Well, yeah, and it’s not that my family was very sophisticated. It’s just that they believed really strongly that there are people in our community who are not as fortunate as us and that it’s our duty to give back to those people, but that it’s not just about giving back Thio people who are less fortunate. It’s about making sure that the organizations that are supporting them are strong so that they can provide those important social services. That something that was very much a part of my upbringing. Yeah, that’s outstanding. Um, and let’s now come to the research that led you to the ah to the overview that you gave us earlier. What was Thea was the process for this? Lots of interviews. Yeah, So I really came at it because I had experienced this issue myself personally. When I graduated from law school, I I started my own small non-profit with a group of women in San Francisco called Spark. We engage young professionals and gender equality issues, and we also had this problem where we had a ton of buzz. In the beginning, we were growing our revenue every few months, doubling our annual budget. And then at a certain point, just when we were hitting our stride, we hit a wall and we couldn’t get the capital that we needed in the door, get to the next level and increase the impact that we wanted. So that was around the half a $1,000,000 mark, wasn’t it? Half a $1,000,000 for us, and for every for every non-profit it it could be different. But I have found that that half $1,000,000 mark is a really a critical state hump because it is a place that a lot of organizations struggled to get beyond that kind of like initial grant funding and initial seed capital to really get some more sustainable grants in the door. So to get back to your question about the process for me, and when I began teaching social entrepreneurship at Stanford wearing my research cap, I began looking at this question more critically. I developed a survey and sent it out Thio Ah, 1000 organizations in the United States that were in some of the top. There’s entrepreneurship portfolios like going green and a show CA in school. And so I heard back from them and I tested everything from, you know, with their social media better and helping them scale, or was it there impact measurement in the way that they were measuring impact? And I came up with some initial findings that I went out and tested and I got to go out and interview in person. Ah, 100 organization founders there they’re funders, their beneficiaries, their staff and really just asked them a key question, which is what is the secret to non-profit success? And the findings are based on the stories that they told me in those interviews. The, um the the parts that I wanna start to focus on, um, is that that early stage you call it testing testing ideas? Um, I I think of it as sort of, you know, mastering as much as you can. The the problem. Like trying to get your mind around what the problem is and testing solutions to it. Um, I Is it okay if I describe it that way. Absolutely. What I found in my research is that the best social entrepreneurs fall in love with the problem, not the solution. Well, it is a lot harder once you fall in love with that solution. Thio let it go even if it’s not working. But if we really focus on the problem, then you’re gonna be able Thio, figure out the best strategy to address the problem. You talk about ideation and and brainstorming and not allowing any solutions to be censored at at the early stages. Yeah, and that’s you know that is that this human-centered design theory that has come up but Stanford at the D school or in various capacities? It’s really just a fancy way of talking about problem solving and a process for understanding how to brainstorm ideas. Um, and it doesn’t really have to be fancy. I owe you an example. An organization that I interviewed It was wishbone, which is Ah crowdfunding site for low income kids who want thio have summer experiences in the arts are in Fillmore in cooking to help them following their follow their dreams. And when the organization started, they didn’t start by launching this huge website in this platform and investing a lot of money and then, you know, then find the kids they did it the other way around. They did a really low cost test to figure out whether the model would work. So, uh, the founder was a teacher for low income students in Los Angeles at the time. She assigned an essay to them and ask them to write about their passion. Then she took some of her favorite papers and she photocopied them. And she stuck them in a male in the mail with a stamp and sent them to her relatives and her friends to say, Would you fund these kids to be able to follow their passions in the summer? And she got a bunch of money from those people and she was able to send them to summer camps and to do internships and realized that there was really something there, and it was really just this kind of low cost testing in the beginning that helped her figure out what worked and what didn’t and helped her develop an engine that she could then grow to scale. And it is hard to to throw off solutions. I mean, you know, remove solutions, eliminate them. You know you feel like you’ve got some, um, resource is devoted to it, but the outcomes air just not coming, it’s It’s hard to throw off, throw them off, though, and start a family. A lot of work to overcome that a lot of organizations get stuck in that cycle for two reasons. One is because it’s really hard. Thio admit failure. So I think that’s a big problem in the sector is just getting more comfortable with failure? But because oftentimes these these programs are doing important work, and it’s not that they’re necessarily bad. Maybe not the most impactful they be. I’ll tell you a story of one really successful example of this an organization called Last Mile Health founded in Liberia Toe help Get health care for some of the poorest communities there to decrease their mortality rates had when it started 13 different programs everything from women’s health programs, Thio AIDS programs, helping patients with HIV AIDS and as they started to grow, they realized that the program that was having the biggest impact was this program that was helping bring community based care to the rural areas of Liberia. So there were no doctors there. There were people who had to walk, sometimes 12 13 hours to get to the capital city on, and they had very few doctors serving millions of people. And so these community health care workers were able to give them the treatment that they needed, sometimes using cell phone service, t get care remotely. And, as it turned out, because it was so successful, they decided they made the very hard decision of closing down all these other programs that were very good programs but just weren’t having that kind of level of impact they wanted to see. And when the Ebola crisis hit in 2012 that was absolutely critical because they had focused their efforts on these community health care workers. Those community health care workers were able to prevent a global health crisis, so I can’t think of a better story. You know that they really because they were able to focus their energy on a program that was working, they were ableto have massive impact and so I think we all have to keep that kind of end goal in mind when we’re when we’re doing this, that it’s really about maximizing the potential of the impact that we can have. And let’s talk about measuring that impact. Um, let’s start with the distinction between your outputs and your outcomes or your impact. Well, what I found is that a lot of organizations tend to focus on the outcome on the on the output those air, the Vanity Mac tricks that are very easy. Thio T. C. So, for example, how many people are participating in your programs, or how many people are coming to your website to get social services? But ultimately, it’s not showing how the programs are having change on their life, their long term outcomes. It might even be something physical, like how many, uh, backpack kits we put together for homeless outreach? Yeah, I think. Then what is the home of the people do with them? And how did that change their lives? Right and does not change their lives so that you get out of homeless. Does it really the ultimate goal? Um, and so this is something that I think a lot of organizations struggle with, because non-profit leaders are not data scientists, and sometimes it can be overwhelming to think about, Like, how do you measure outcomes? How do you measure the ripple effect of providing that backpack to a homeless youth and what that does to get him in the door to a shelter that does that, help him ultimately get a job, Um, and and ultimately, get him off the streets. That’s a really hard path to follow. But you don’t have to be a data scientist, and it doesn’t have to be so hard. And in the book, I give a lot of really tangible strategies that non-profit organizations can use the help figure out what are the long term outcomes and get past these vanity metrics that just make us feel good about our impact but aren’t really telling us whether we’re making progress toward the ultimate goal. Kathleen, we just have about a minute or so before next break. Um, talk a little about the ah, using this data to help you tell your story. Yeah, that was something that I saw over and over again. Is we have a situation where 75% of non-profits collect data, but only 6% of them feel like they really know what to do with that data on the best non-profits. Figure out how to get it into bite size chunks of information that someone can easily digest in just a few minutes. And that could be whether you’re a small organization or whether you’re a huge organization. It really just comes down to those bite-sized pieces of information. Indulge me while we take another break. You need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software designed from the bottom up for non-profits. Simple to use phenomenal support. Can you say that about your own accounting software? QuickBooks. Quicken Turbo Cash Workday zoho Patriot No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I think that was That may have been one too many nose, but no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you cannot. Cougar Mountain has a free 60 day trial made for non-profits. You’ll find that on the listener landing page at tony dot m. A slash Cougar Mountain. Now time for Tony’s Take two. How about a little, as we learned as children, you know, share, share? That’s fair. How about sharing non-profit radio? Do you know someone who do you know? Let’s let’s let’s be in the affirmative. Who do you know that order. Be listening to non-profit radio. Someone who works for another non-profit works for your own non-profit eyes on a board, someone who’s a boardmember board members, great listeners to get a lot of good feedback from board members. Um, you know how good this show is. You’ve been listening your subscriber or you’re just sampling. Either way, you’re getting value from it. Share the value share share. That’s fair. That’s what I learned in third grade. When I was never shared that I wouldn’t share anything a little trouble game, You know where you popped the thing in the middle and then you move. The wooden used to be long ago. You move the wooden pegs along yet to get into the center. I never would share. I would just play all four or four parts for myself, but that’s that’s in the past. Now we know that sharing is good, So who can you share non-profit radio with? Please do. Let’s let’s expand the flock. Bring more into the family and I thank you very much for sharing non-profit radio. Let’s go back to Kathleen Kelly, Janice and scale up and sustain. Let’s let’s continue with the podcast Pleasantries. He was surprised. I divided it up. We say, on the heels of the live Listen, love has to come. The podcast pleasantries. Well, the heels a little longer this time. It’s a stiletto this time, Um, podcast. Pleasant feast are over 12,000. Listening in the time shift. The vast majority of our audience is there. And I’m thank you’il thankful that you are with us. Pleasantries to the podcast listeners and the affiliate affections to our AM and FM affiliate station listeners throughout the country. Thank you so much for being with us. I’m grateful that your station includes us in their weekly schedule. And I’m glad that you are listening on the, um on the terrestrial on the terrestrial side, the AM and FM affections to the affiliate listeners. Thank you very much. Kathleen Kelly. Janice. Thank you. You’re welcome. You’re still there, right? Yes, I’m here. Okay. Cool. Um, I noticed you, uh, is going back to your parents. You You dedicated the book to your parents and you say, for my parents who taught me the value of citizenship how do you define that citizenship? What do you think of as a citizenship. Well, for me, I’ve been raised with this idea that we all have a duty to give back to making the world a better place. And so we all have the capacity to make impact in some way. And to me, that’s really exciting. And I think getting even Maur and more prevalent I acknowledge that not everybody was is lucky to have been raised with that mentality as I was, although I’m sure there are others who had those really important dinner conversations about social impact where No, no, I’m not sure how caught prevalent toyour, but more and more. What I see with my students at Stanford when I see the next generation is that there is this changing mentality that non-profit work used to be just about writing a check to a foundation or thio non-profit and then being on your way, people want to roll up their sleeves. Now they want to get involved. Non-profit work is no longer relegated. Thio. You know when you leave the office at 5 p.m. That millennials are thinking about how can they make a difference in their work in making the word world a better place? Whether that is using their skills to do pro bono work, or whether that e-giving back through donations and getting others involved in like minded causes. To me, this is really exciting because it’s increased the potential for all of us. Thio make an impact in the world because we’re thinking about social change in a in a really different way. But it’s also really exciting for non-profits because there’s an opportunity for non-profits to capitalize on that. And I think too many non-profits out there are operating in this old fashioned model where they’re seeking donations. Maybe they have, you know, an annual event or an annual dinner where they bring people together for a long program and, uh, over dinner. And then that’s it. They collect their money, and then they get back to them the next year when it’s time for the dinner again. But people don’t want that. Donors don’t want that they want to be engaged, and they want to feel like they’re making an impact. And so the onus is on the non-profits to really think about how to help donors get involved, and ultimately that will lead Thio. I think more funding for organizations as well. You encourage non-profits to think about earned income, recognizing that it may not fit in every situation, that there might be non-profits where it’s not appropriate. But let’s talk about the potential for earned income and howto explore it well. I am keenly aware, as someone who was trained as a human rights lawyer that not all causes air suited for earned income. Human rights work is a perfect example of someone cannot afford the bus fare to get to the courthouse in the first place. They can’t afford to pay a lawyer for their rights. Many organizations are going to rely on philanthropic capital to fill that gap, and that is important. And that’s okay. But what I found in my research is that when possible, the organizations that are able to bring in earned income are going to be ableto have this kind of level of sustainability that helps them get through the hard times. Ah, lot of organizations talked about the recession in 2008 went so many grantmaking organizations pulled funding that they had already promised this was money that organizations were relying on, but their endowments had gone down and paint with the down Jones, and so they weren’t able to provide that really important funding and the organizations that had earned income sources, like a fee for service model or ah, model where they were selling products, those air the organizations that had the fuel to get them through that time when they didn’t know where their next philanthropic check was coming from. So it’s something that I think all non-profits need to at least consider as they develop their funding model, are their sources of her an income that can help grow the organization and and be willing to experiment with those. Absolutely. You also encourage a ah multiyear fund-raising plan. So it’s a little about what you’re going to that I think so many organizations think about fund-raising, like filling a bathtub with a teaspoon. It’s painful. You’re putting the water in a teaspoon by teaspoon, and then at the end of the year, when you start a new budget cycle, you drain the bathtub and you start over again. That is a really painful way to approach fund-raising, and what the best organizations do is they think about fund-raising on a multiyear strategy so they make sure that their grants when possible or multiyear grants so that there looking at funding 3 to 5 years out and not just here in a year, and then they help educate their donors on the importance of that. So not just not just foundations, but also individual donors who can contribute on a year to year level. And when you set that culture into motion, it helps you think much bigger about the prospects for fund-raising, as opposed Thio from a place of scarcity, that mentality of scarcity. It is him. There’s a lot of not just organizations, but people. They just they feel like the they aren’t going to get what they need. It really does. And I hate to use that example because I think it’s really easy, you know, as a researcher to say, just think bigger and non-profits I can think is because they wanted. That doesn’t mean that the funding is gonna come in the door. But I do notice there was one funder that I interviewed who said You can tell the difference between the organization when you ask them the question. What would you do if you had $10 million and the ones that are able to answer that question right off the bat. Those were the ones that are going to go big because they’re the ones that are thinking in that way and that have a plan and are and believe that they can get there. And so I think it’s really it is really about mentality in many ways. Yeah, all right, OK, so we need to overcome that. We need to have the courage to think that’s a $10 million level, absolutely, and don’t need to be thinking bigger, too. I mean, go both ways, and that’s your responsibility to help your donors think that way. Rate. Imagine what we could do if we had $10 million. Imagine how many lives we could touch inspire those donors to be a part of the solution. That is really what it’s all about. Collaboration. You mentioned it earlier when you were, ah, giving us the eloquent overview. Um, let’s let’s talk about the collaboration delegation. Strong leaders are not afraid to pass tasks onto others. It’s really critical, and organizations cannot succeed without a really strong team. The story that I love that really illustrates this is of Kiva dot org’s. I mentioned earlier that crowdfunding platform to support small businesses in the developing world, using donorsearch Unnie from premier from primarily United States but also now all around the world. And this organization started right around the same time that I co founded a spark. And so I I got to see this firsthand competition. Yes, well, they were in a competition, but you could benchmark against. I guess you were well, yeah, and and it was really amazing story because Jessica Jackley and Matt Flannery, the founders, were on Oprah Winfrey. They were featured in Bill Clinton’s e-giving book and were featured on The Oprah Show. That income that didn’t come for you as co founder of Spark? No, as much like the way I saw what happened for them, they raised $11 million overnight. After being on the Oprah show, they they literally crashed their servers and and we’re no longer able to accept funds. And so overnight they had to think about leadership in a very distributed way because they needed all hands on deck in order to distribute all of those funds that they had received until now is an organization they have 100 employees and 500 volunteers around the world. There, keep a fellows go into the field. Thio, Thio, follow-up on the Grants and Thio ensure that they’re going where they say they’re going and Thio tell those stories and catalog those stories. We rely on all those volunteers and all those staff to be on the front lines. And so they have strategies to make sure that those people, their staff, feel empowered to support the mission of the organization. So an example is they allow their staff to develop their own impact metrics so the staff can feel connected to how their work in particular is Contributing to the mission of the order is excellent. Okay, it’s not. It’s not top down right where we’re talking about the antithesis of top down leadership. Absolutely. I mean, even their feedback model. They have horizontal feedback mechanisms so that they’re not giving and receiving feedback in a top down way. And that really helps set into motion this culture of horizontal value for all employees. All right, Kathleen, we take our our third break. Um, I want to remind listeners the book is social startup success. If you’re listening live. You could be cooking right through now to Barnes and Noble or Amazon. Be buying it while I take this break time for our last break. Turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories, get media attention on those stories and build support for your work, media relations, content, marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. You’ll find all that at turn hyphen to DOT CEO. We’ve got butt loads more time for scale up and sustain Kathleen the, uh, the other part of collaborative leadership. Besides, um, strong, strong senior leadership is a strong active board. What do you like to see there? Well, a lot of organizations start out with what I call in the book of Friends and Family Board, where they know they have to legally have a board of directors. And so they go out and they recruit anyone who’s close to them. Thio help them with their organization, and this leads to a lot of problems because friends and family are not always the most suited to help you grow an organization they don’t always necessarily have the skills and often time friends and family. Tell you what, you want to hear those two really pushing you to be your best Not gonna challenge you Tell me they’re not gonna challenge you. They’re not gonna challenge you. Yes, exactly. And so and so and so really what I saw. The organization that scaled had a robust organise a robust organizational board that was suited for the skills that they needed and the talents that they needed to grow the organization. And even if it meant having to go through that brutal process of moving from the friends and family board to the more robust kind of governance board my husband always that we have three children and my husband always likes to say, I can’t fire my mother in law. You know, it’s a lot easier sometimes. Hire a baby sitter. Well, that should be Your job. Should be firing your own mother. It’s much easier for you to do. No one wants to have to fire their mother. So don’t put your mother on your board. That’s the lesson, Um, and and really getting it right. The first time is the best recipe for success. But there are strategies that I talk about in the book for how to move past the friends and Family board to a governance board. That’s really gonna help challenge you and get you through the strategic planning process to help you build a theory of change so that you can show your solution to the problem in a logical and impactful way. Board relationships Very tough for lots of organizations. The relationship between the CEO and the board. Sometimes it’s a micro managing board. Even those even the relationship between staff and the board can sometimes be difficult. Um, intra board relationships. There’s a lot. There’s a lot of potential for problems there. There’s a lot of potential for problems, and there’s a lot of potential for solutions. Well, one leaves you doesn’t have to be that hard. One of the key things that I talk about in the book for developing a really strong board is putting the policies in place. You’re very clear about what the expectations are of your board. I think a lot of these challenges come in when it’s just not clear whose role is what and what boardmember Zehr supposed to do. So let me give you an example. Organizations that responded to MAE survey said that only 15% of their boards are involved in fund-raising. When asked what they would like their boards to doom, or of 66% of the executive director, said they would like their boards to be doing more friendraising. So that’s a huge disconnect. And I would, I would ask, those organizations will, what have you done to communicate with your board that you would like them to be doing more fund-raising? What have you done to establish what they’re fund-raising goals are in the board policy. What have you done to support their fund-raising efforts? Have you provided events that they could bring their contacts to? Have you given them the stories that they need to tell at a cocktail party so that they know how to make an elevator pitch? If you want your board to be involved in friendraising, you need to lay the foundation to make that happen. So I think a lot of board frustrations that executive directors have with their boards can easily be alleviated by just laying the foundation with clear policies and clear expectations, like the model of collaboration that you were talking about. You know, bottom up. You encourage that also in buy-in storytelling. And, um, I know, I’m not sure if if you had Well, all right. I was gonna say my favorite part was the storytelling part, but if you had to pick, that was my favorite. I’m not saying that’s the most important. Is it possible for you to say which of these and we are gonna talk about storytelling very moment very shortly. Um, which of the five areas like, most important. Are you willing to rank them like that? Or I just think they’re all equally. It’s like asking me to choose My My favorite child thinks they are all important, but I will say that that that kind of they do. I write about them in the order that I write about them because I think that they do. They do lay the foundation for success in that order. So you can’t tell a good story until you have the deed I’ve and the qualitative stories to show for that. And so that impact measurement and that testing process is really key to get there. So you did. You did think through the sequence of, uh that you were gonna, um, present these in the book? Yeah. Sequence is very important. Okay. Non-profit metoo tested the war haphazard, but you thought through when you’re writing a book is different. So you you actually you thought through this. Okay, I’m gratified to hear that. Okay, um, so let’s talk about the story telling you, like, again, bottom up. Absolutely. It has thio involved everyone around you. There’s an organization I interviewed called ideo dot or GE and they use design thinking thio help non-profits develop innovative solutions in their work. And they have this thing that they they implement on in their staff meetings called storytelling roulette where they spin the wheel like a wheel of fortune. They they spin it and then randomly, it will land on a story and they’ll pick a staff person in advance. Who on the spot has to tell that story as if they were pitching it to a donor or a potential partner. I’m not because a every staff member hasn’t necessarily been involved in all of those projects and doesn’t necessarily have that institutional memories of the way to build institutional memory. It’s also a way to build skills. Storytelling is not something that just happened. Storytelling happens with a lot of practice and, uh, and a lot of opportunities to practice. One of my dear friends, Nadine Burke Harris, has a Ted talk with three million views, and she runs an organization called the Center for Youth. Wellness focuses on toxic stress. When I interviewed her and asked her about that Ted talk, she said she practiced it for six months. This 10 minute talk and she said by the end of those six months her husband could have given the Ted talk for her because she had practiced it so many times in front of him. So I think it’s important that we remember to make the space for that practice, not only for ourselves as leaders of organizations, but also for all of our teams and our board, and even benefit. Yes, I wanted to go to the beneficiaries. I was, um you’re so you’re so ah, comprehensive. I was hoping you were gonna leave beneficiaries, and then I would sound smart and say no, but what about beneficiaries? But, um, yeah, well, we just have about a minute and 1/2 left before we wrap up, so talk about encouraging beneficiaries to tell. Well, I think when you’re working with beneficiaries to tell stories, I think there’s ah lot of things that organizations need to do to be very conscious of what it means to put a beneficiary in that position and to set them up for success. So it’s not always appropriate. And I think organizations have to do a lot of thinking to make sure, for example, that beneficiary is well, past and being part of the program, that they are in a better place to be able to tell that story. But there really is no more powerful story for unorganised ation to tell them someone who has successfully made their way through the program and has created a better life because of that outcome. And so we talked earlier about outputs versus outcomes. That is an outcome when you can show that someone’s life has changed, and hearing that from from the beneficiaries own mouth is really going to be your most powerful sales person for the organization, those air so compelling the, uh, I mean those could be riel tear jerkers literally. Um, it’s and they don’t have to be high production value, but they could be very, very compelling. Very, very moving. Absolutely. All right. We have to leave it there. I want to thank you very much. Kathleen Kelly. Janice. Thank you. Thanks for having me, Tony. It’s been my absolute pleasure. The book. Get the book for Pete’s sake. We just did a romp through it. You need the book Social startup success. Have the best non-profits launch scale up and make a difference next week? I just don’t know. You know it’ll be worthwhile if you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you. Find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Witness E. P. A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com But koegler Mountain Software, Denali, fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Our creative producer is clear. Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day, huh? Mmm. Do you run or are ready to open your own business? Hi, I’m Jeremiah Fox. I’ve been operating an opening small business for the last 25 years, and I’m the host of the new show, The entrepreneurial Web Tune in every Friday at noon Eastern time for insights and stories on the nuances of running small business. 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Nonprofit Radio for October 11, 2019: Recruiting Your Board Members

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My Guest:

Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi: Recruiting Your Board Members
Gene Takagi returns with 12 tips, ideas and strategies you can use in board recruitment. We’re talking expectations, motivations, commitment, requirements, and more. He’s our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit and Exempt Organizations Law Group.

 

 

 

 

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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of wheel if I if you irritated me with the idea that you missed today’s show recruiting your board members. Jean Takagi returns with 12 tips, ideas and strategies you can use. Inboard recruitment will get those many of them as we can. We’re talking expectations, motivations, commitment, requirements and Maur. He’s our legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and Exempt Organizations Law Group on 20 steak, too. I’ve never been so insulted in all my life. Responsive by Wagner, C. P A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers. Witness cps dot com But Cougar Mountain Software, Denali, fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits Tony dahna may slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. And as I’m reading, I realize that the embarrassment of wheel we had that last week. So again, as I’ve said, uh, I’m in desperate need of an intern. So I have someone to blame for these mistakes. So so sorry we didn’t get ah updated sickness for you this week. Uh, no one to blame but myself, which is the problem. That’s why I need interns. Um, let’s let’s bring on Jean. I feel, uh, we’ll rescue everything for us. You know who he is? He’s the managing attorney of Neo non-profit Exempt Organizations Law Group in San Francisco. He edits the wildly popular non-profit Law block dot com. And in 2016 he was the American Bar Association’s outstanding non-profit lawyer. He’s at G. Tak Jean, help me out here, please. How are you? I’m doing great. How are you? Very well. You sound strong and powerful. And Vural and enthusiastic. I love it. Thank you. I need that. I need that after my real mistake. Um, So you, uh you have Ah, pretty lengthy. Uh, interesting block post that we’re gonna turn over a little bit, but you know, it’s you. You wrote something for individuals who are contemplating boardmember ship, but we’re gonna turn the tables on it on talk about non-profits or contemplating recruiting board members. And what? What advice you’ve got in that in that regard? Does that sound right? Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah. Go. You’ve, uh you’ve been working with boards and board members for how many decades now? Um, a couple decades. Yeah. Yeah. So you know what you’re talking about. You You’re on your ANA least one board that I know of. Are you on more than one board currently on a couple boards and a few committees that are non board committees, but staying pretty active. Yeah. No, I know. I’m tryingto I just wanna, uh, establish the bona fide. He’s I mean, you’re not just not just a theory for you. You’re actually practicing it and keeping, ah, keeping real boards feet to the fire. Right. You’re not just not in a vacuum. This is real life for you. So yeah, both both the legal adviser to some boards and then sitting in the fire as the boardmember. I’m not sure I’d want to be on a board that you are a boardmember of you. Would you hold this will? You would hold us to high standards. I I certainly aspire to high standards. I don’t know if I achieve them often or ever, but I aspired to them. So I guess, Yeah, you we wouldn’t clash or anything if you were on the same board. I would I would respect you. I just would be annoyed that you’re always telling us that, you know, we’re not We’re not reaching the right standards of governance or you’re failing your failing the the the requirements of of the duties, the three duties. And and you’re not fulfilling your responsibilities as board members. I would, you know, I would respect you. Um, and I would I would aspire to do better in your words. I would. I would. Yeah. Totally trying not to be that type of boardmember. Well, but you’d be hard. You know, we all know those boardmember. Yeah, but will be hard for you to turn it off. I mean, you know, you’re you’re a fiduciary to the organization. You have. You know, it would be hard for you to turn it off. I could tell it would. All right. Um, So let’s see. So we’re starting with, you know, starting with some of the basics. Um, you want you want to make sure that people understand what? What they’re taking on what responsibilities The three duties, which you’re, um, loyalty, care and obedience. Um, you want to make sure that board members understand what they’re walking into? Yeah. I mean, that’s absolute basics because, you know, everybody could say, you know, I like to be on the board. I’m really passionate about the mission, and that’s a great starting point, but I know that that’s not gonna get very far if you’re not willing to do the rest of the work that’s involved. So just having an understanding of what your legal obligations are, first of all, is probably a good first place to start and for the non-profit, because you flipped it nufer the non-profit. When they start to recruit boardmember, they want to make sure that the board members kind of understand not only what the organization wants out of them, but what the law demands of them. And and they should have offensive. Actually, what could happen if they don’t settle the obligations and that maybe the boardmember from hell that nobody wants the ones who could tell the well in the worst case scenarios, which I sometimes see. This is what can happen it in, like the worst case scenario as you might imagine, might be personal liability of boardmember. Go out of pocket for something that happened with the organization on their watch, because perhaps gross negligence or something more serious than that, or just terrible PR damage where boardmember Zehr individually attacked by media and social media for some failure of the organization. I think from the headline in many news stories over the December and the beginning of the fall, we’ve seen some high profile non-profits where they have been called out for. You know, donors are for activities have engaged in, and so boardmember Zehr often held, you know, to thio how they’re living up to their authority on the responsibilities by the media and social media and maybe buy you a time dummy. Maybe that’s right. Non-profit radio also aspires to a very high standard. The show achieves the high standards. It’s me personally. It’s me personally. That’s ah, that’s rare for way. Just have about two minutes before before our first breaking. You make the point that there should be in place. My ability insurance directors and officers liability insurance. Well, that would be one of the things that I would look for as a perspective boardmember coming on to a board. So I would think that a non-profit that aspires to try to get high quality people on their board who are really interested in doing the work protection, huh? Just in case personal liability doesn’t become an issue. Directors and officers, insurance is kind of what protects against that. So that would be a mosque on my list. Do your do your boards that you sit on, let you get involved with recruitment. Yeah, I’m Max. Absolutely. Part of the one of the committee that that’s in charge of recruitment for one of the board. Excellent. Excellent. Okay. So that I shouldn’t say like, let you go. I mean it. That way, they take advantage of your expertise. That’s what I should say. Buy-in recruiting new boardmember. Yeah, because it is essential. You know, the people want to have to know what they’re getting into. And, of course, like you said, it has to go a lot lot further than just passion. Um, we have about a minute or so. What? You you knew, name something. What would you feel like bringing up for a minute? And then we could talk about it more after the break through? Sure, I guess, is a nonprofit organization I would want to know. Why does this individual? So I’m thinking about inviting onto the board. Want Do they want to be a board member of our organization? And I know everybody I talk to you is gonna say what we have a passion for the organization of the organization’s mission. But I would want to know what else. Why else do you want to serve? Sometimes those reasons could be all about, you know, uh, very altruistic. And you know what? Emotionally helping the people about our organization helps what that means to them and the social impact they want to create. But sometimes there are self interested reasons as well. And sometimes that’s okay to do it for personal reasons. And maybe we’ll get into that. Tony, would you have any personal reasons for wanting to serve on the board? Could you see some benefit that comes to you personally out of it? Oh, sure. Um, hold that thought. I’m not trying to get out of answering. Let me take this break, and, uh, and I will answer in about 30 seconds. Um, this break is for regular CPS. Are you thinking about a change possibility? Possibly in your c p. A relationship. Maybe your board is talking about boardmember boardings rumbling that they’ve had the same accounting firm for a long time. Or maybe they’re not quite up thio up to par for some reason, um, whatever the reasons, maybe you’re feeling, ah, growing need to get some accounting help. You know, a partner. You know, partner Wagner. You know, ye duitz doom. Weinger CPS has been a guest multiple times. Talk to him, see if they can help you get started at wagner cps dot com. Now, let’s go back to recruiting your board members. Um, okay, Gene. So, yes, Uh, I didn’t I didn’t call you out for asking me a question, which is generally prohibited, but that’s okay. Uh, so, yeah, I mean, I’ve ah, personal networking. I mean, if we’re getting to the base level, maybe there’s some people on the board who, you know, I’d like to I’d like to get to know, or maybe I know them and were friendly, and I feel like we would work very well together, Although that could be that could be a bit of a red flag for the non-profit. If if I’m gonna be like a voting bloc with my friend or two that, you know, that could be difficult, depending on what those one or two people are like. Um, but, yeah, of course. Networking business advantage. Um, maybe I’m on another board. And there’s some synergy put potentially between the organization’s, um so there’s a couple of non mission related reasons. What do you hear? You hear any bad stuff? Well, I’ll just add on 15 were good things, and then I’ll talk about the best. Like sometimes people want to develop skills and maybe create job opportunities for themselves. They may start off a boardmember hoping that that might turn into something out with that organization or maybe a allied organization. Um, prestige is probably another, and there are some status boards of, like foundations and symphonies and operas or whatever. Organizations have particular status in a community of whatever communities that have might happen to be sometimes sitting on the board ads toe kind of the social status that somebody might have and power. Sometimes I know for identity based group community organizations, sometimes serving on the board on it. Being with such high like that that that person is able to exercise power in other areas as well. So those might be reasons summer okay for serving on the board of long, but that’s not there. Those were not their primary reasons, or they do not let that get in the way of acting in the best interest of the organization above all other things. But sometimes there are some bad things. And then so serving on the board to get into a contract with your company, that wouldn’t be such a cool thing, although we hear of that happening with several organizations that are in the news. Um, have you where Jean have? Have you ever heard anyone disclosed that what in the in the recruitment process that they want it? Not that I’d like to see. I’d like I’d like to see this organization doing some work with my with my company. I haven’t heard you haven’t heard of the organization I join, but there’s definitely been some implications that for some of the reasons that you discussed well voting blocs created within the board from business partners or business, then you know they’re using that block to take advantage and have the whole board or enough of the board to agree to certain contracts, um, that allow their companies to do business. So I didn’t want to point out to meeting, but I think it’s safe to point out one name of an organization because they’ve been in the news an awful lot under governance. And that’s the N R A, which is actually a bunch of different organizations. Ah, but the n r A. That sort of the main organization, uh, has been kind of under heat a little bit for the contract that their board members and they have a very large board. I think over 70 people the contract that their board members have engaged in with the organizations and whether that was on abuse of their duties or not. I will comment on whether I think it is or not. But there’s that perception of a non-profit boardmember being on a board that the proof contract would that boardmember company and when that occurs over and over again with multiple board members and it starts to look like the voting blocs are sort of a wash, you wash my hands. I’ll wash yours kind of kind of deal. And so you have to think about the perception, and not only just the limitations that Lami have on that. There’s certainly some legal issues that could arrive, but the public perception of that and being on the front page of The New York Times or The Washington Post or whatever. And you know, with that allegations, what will that do to the rest of your fund-raising and how the rest of the community thinks of your organization? So there are some really interesting things that could be bad as well in terms of bad personal reasons for serving on the board. Um, I’m going backwards now to something that you mentioned about potential social media embarrassment for you being on the board. Critics of the organization, I guess, is there some way that an organization can, um, insulate or or somehow protect or what can what? Can an organization offer to, uh, mollify someone’s concerns over possible personal embarrassment on the social networks? Yeah, you know, it’s a really tricky thing. There are some organizations that try, so you’ll see that some organizations are very open about putting on their organizational website. You know who is on the board of directors? Um, but some organizations feel that they want to keep that information a little bit more private, and they don’t put their board members on their website. The limitation to that is that your form 9 90 which is a public document. And that’s your annual information return that you submit to the I. R. S. Um, that’s easily available on a site like GuideStar Archer. And, um, that’s going to list all of your board members on it. So as much as you want insulate some board members, that’s not really the way the law thinks about what the law thinks about. You know, non-profit organizations, while while they’re not public organizations, they’re not governmental organizations. They are the type of private organization without ownership where the board are really acting in Stuart’s on behalf of the community, Um, and they want to make sure that those organizations are fairly transparent and what they’re doing, including who is leading the organization. So that’s why that information is required on the form 9 90 board members and officers so that everybody could see them. And what type of compensation they make for the organization if they’re paid. So is there not really much protection that an organization could offer someone against attack again on the social networks? I’m thinking of that because it’s it’s so public, and it could be potentially so embarrassing. There’s really If someone wants to call out a boardmember, there’s not really nothing. It’s not really something that the organization could do. Tow support, the murder? Well, yeah. I mean, other than Dino insurance, you know, the the organization could It’s the beer enough. Have their lawyer perhaps look a defamation claim. That’s a stretch. That’s that’s really serious. Okay, yeah. And the social networks are Ah, well, yeah. I mean, they’re they’re pretty much open. They are what they are. You have to go pretty far. You have to go pretty far to be, uh, someone have a reasonable claim against you for defamation, right? And in that environment, right. And you’re weighing in against the First Amendment rights of people to be able to express their opinions like a yelp review that’s really bad and says, Well, you know, this organization has done horrible things, and these are the board members who are responsible. Well, that’s probably protected straight. All right, opinion. It’s something. But it’s something for organizations that are potentially controversial. If they’re doing grassroots political organizing or really doesn’t even have, sometimes have to be. It doesn’t have to be political to be controversial s. So if your organization has a mission that’s high profile of any of any sort, um, you need to make sure you’re boardmember understand that there’s a potential for them to be, uh, called out good or bad. We’re thinking about what we were thinking more of the bad. That’s true, Tony, I. And I think now that I think about your question about is there anything that you can do to protect your boardmember? There is one protection for small organizations that they might offer is to not publicized or use a board members home address or even their business address as the organization’s address. And I know a lot of small grassroots organizations do that. They kind of just use a board members. Or maybe the founders home addresses their organizational address. Yes, well, once you’ve made that public information now, people could actually go to that home. They know where you live. So, um, not subjecting a boardmember tiu. That might be important. And that that address might be located on a public document that details either the organization’s address for the ancient for service of process address. So that’s the agent preservative processes. Basically who? Somebody would deliver a lawsuit, too. And you are required to make that publicas well. And oftentimes people put a boardmember they’re on, they put their home address so they make sure that they get the mail. That’s not very good for privacy concerns. So those are two things to think about. You could get a P o box for 100 bucks a year or something. And sometimes a P O box is not permissible. They require a street address, But then you can look too. There are a lot of virtual offices that will let you suri address, right? Right. Yes, exactly. That’s right. The male shops that used to be mailbox etcetera. Um, but that type of that type of store, they’ll give you a street address, but it’s a storefront. Yeah, OK, yeah. That’s right. For service of process P O. Box. Not allowed. Probably, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um, you want to be looking for someone who is, Uh Ah. Good. Ah, good team. Team player works well with others. They’re gonna be serving on committees. And of course, we talked about expectations. You gonna tell them whether they’re gonna be on one or two committees? Maybe you could even tell them which committee or committees they’re going to serve on or ask them what their preferences are. But it’s committee work. It’s full board work. It’s working team wise with the C suite, sometimes with the staff, maybe with volunteers, somebody who’s gonna be collegial and team worthy, right? Yeah, I think you know, I wouldn’t understand an organization that wouldn’t want that characteristic of a boardmember. And it’s hard to tell, right? Some people are good about, you know, putting on a good public safe. So it’s the only time you’ve ever met this candidate is, uh, you know, a breakfast interview, and then you’re deciding whether to that that person should be on the board or not. That’s a tricky decision to make because they can say they’re collegial player and be really nice at the breakfast meeting. But do you know how, though act in aboard environment, then sometimes that’s going to be very different from that one on one meeting. So getting to know the person might include a little bit more diligent but informing them of, like Witek of requirements and responsibilities they’re gonna have for your organization if that’s committee work or that other work or expectation that they volunteered at events that times are work with some other volunteers or work with some staff on some committee, whatever kind of the organization does with its own board members, that’s the expectation. And that’s why they want t get Yu on the board. You know, they’ve got to make sure they’re expressing that to the boardmember in advance before they bring them on, because the boardmember. Is walking into something that they didn’t know about. That’s gonna be a potential mismatch and can create some harsh feelings. It’s not managed, right? Yeah, sure. I didn’t know. Why didn’t you? Didn’t you tell me up front that this was gonna be the thieves? Were the expectations on And of course, as long as we’re talking about expectations again, we want to be very clear about fund-raising expectations. How much are you required to personally give. How much do you do we look for you to get from from other sources? Do we look to you to host events in your home or in your business? Uh, do we look to you to bring the business community to us, etcetera? All those types of fund-raising requirements should be should be laid out. Yeah, it’s a it’s a It’s a great question to ask, because this is a little bit of a debatable topic, and I see both sides on it. Is that fund-raising requirement? Tony Some a little curious as to how you feel about it, too. I kind of feel like it’s great to ask that every board member give a meaningful amount for them. But I’m a little bit more leery of the board that says, You know, we have a $1000 a $25,000.100,000 dollar minimum that you contribute a year for the privilege of being a boardmember big sickening that’s now framing it as a donor relationship rather than a relationship in which the expectations are is that the boardmember is been a exercise proper oversight and helped direct the organization into the future um So while I think donations should be a requirement of some sort, I don’t think strict numbers are really a good idea, Particularly if diversity and inclusiveness is something that we want in our organizational board. Yeah, Yeah. I used to feel that a strict number was appropriate, but I’ve changed my mind over the years that it should be what it should be a meaningful gift for the individual. Now, there are marquee names with that we’ll never get away from. You know, we have $100,000 requirement here, but we’re talking to small and mid sized non-profits, not the New York City Ballet and Stanford University. Right. So But you know that that, uh, well, they’re the other, the other 5% we’re talking to the other 95 but they’re the five that they’re not in the 95. So, uh, so they’re they’re moving them aside as we do routinely. We don’t even mention the 1999% of time without even thinking of them. So for our listeners, yeah, uh, it should be a meaningful. I mean, it should be a stretch gift, you know, But then you have to have conversation with each individual boardmember. You know what that means for them? I think I think before they joined the board, I I agree, Tony. I think that’s a good thing. Thio raise ahead of time. So you don’t put people in awkward positions where their like again going. I had no idea. And this is deeply personal for me. And I’m going through hard times now. Yeah, yeah. Do you like to see these expectations in writing? I kind of liked have, um, some of this in writing as part of the board orientation package so that both parties know kind of what, What he expected. Questions are going to be. So, uh, both, you know, in the board orientation package that I’m thinking of is going to be shared, even with part of it will be shared with a prospect before their actual provided onto the board. Okay, some of the questions that that you’re gonna ask of any prospect so they get to know you better as an organization, as the board of the culture that values better pervading the the organization. And they get to know you better than individual and to see if there is that right fit. So being as transparent as possible up front, I think, is the best way to help make sure you’ve got a good relationship going. You mentioned being independent enough to express your own point of view and not to be intimidated by other committee members of the board members. How would a non-profit assess that? Yeah, it’s a really good question. I think you could see the Valley, Tony and I know you’ve got a legal education background as well. So the independent judgment is really important. So we don’t have kind of a bunch of sheets. Just say, Oh yeah, way trust, you know, our chair or whoever. We will just go along with the boat without actually looking at any of the documents or any of the facts and circumstances related to that boat, which might be very important for which you might have particular skills that you could actually have given the full board. The benefit of if you had actually taken a look at that ensures what you what you had with it rather than sort of rubber stamping what somebody else said so that independent judgment is really important in terms of meeting your legal responsibilities. But it’s also just if you’re a team player, Um, I don’t think you’re just the team player. If all you do is follow, I think with a strong team, you are all supportive of one another. And when you have a certain skill that or experience or perspective, you share that and you utilize that so you can help the team in that area where other people, other people on the board may not have those things. And I think we’re also unique. That we can offer something different from the way everybody else is looking at Is the boardmember on almost any issues. So I think really contributing and exercising that independent judgment is, uh, super important. But testing it wth the question you asked Really hard. I know. So we asked the question. Or you can ask more generative question about how would you behave if you know, the board chair said, We want this on your head. Five out of six other board members say it, but you really disagreed with that. What would you do in that situation? That might be one of the types of questions that you ask a candidate for the board and see what they say. Yeah, Maybe that’s maybe that is the only way is just ask you. What would you do in that situation? All right, Jean, we have to take a break when we come back. Give us any more thoughts you might have on assessing that, uh, that independent judgment and then, you know, then you come back with something that you’d like to chat about. Meanwhile, we’re taking a break for cooking mountain software designed from the bottom up for non-profits. It’s simple to use phenomenal support. Can you say that about your own accounting software? QuickBooks? No. Quick in no turbo cash workday zoho Patriot. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can’t. Um so go with something that is made for non-profits from the bottom up. Cougar Mountain Free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at Tony dahna May slash Cougar Mountain. Now it’s time for Tony’s take two. I’ve never been so insulted in all my life. This woman years ago accused me of being a thief, a planned giving thief. She suggested that I would steal from an estate steal from my employer at the time. This is what I was a director of planned e-giving. Um, and all while trying to get me to do her a favor, which was technically well, not just technically, which was impossible for me to do is illegal for me to do not just on a technicality. It was illegal for me to have done, but she didn’t understand how this whole thing works. So, um, see what shocked me? It’s Ah, it’s a video where I’m hosted by Peter Heller of Heller Consulting Group. He’s got a video siris. He interviewed me. I told this shocking story, and you can find it on. Uh, yeah, I mean, you go to Peter Heller’s website, but why would you wanna go there when you go to tony martignetti dot com? That’s the place to go. Watch the video at tony martignetti dot com. All right, let us continue with Jean Takagi and recruiting your board members. Gene, anything more you want to say about possibly assessing independent judgment than anything come to mind there, but I think it has to do the questioning of the candidate. But maybe more importantly, you have to share with the candidate that you’ve got a culture that allows for independent judgment to be welcomed, right? You don’t want to make it look like you have this culture where everybody is going to rubber stamp a board members or the CBO’s. Maybe which is more common. Whatever the CEO decides upon, they know the day to day stuff, so they must be right. Do you have a culture that that allows the board to question, then probe and act more than just the sounding board? But really, Thio provide a lot of additional input and then decide whether the board should actually stacked in and make decisions where there’s enough of the board that that challenges what a particular board share or a CEO, my steak is in the best interest of the organization. So it is a particularly important point to create a culture that allows her for individual board members to intervene when it’s reasonable and appropriate. But I think that’s the last thing, okay, and this is related to something that you and I have talked about before, which is very bad sign. If all the votes are unanimous and there isn’t this culture that you just described, you know everybody just rubber stamps. Ah, there’s And we talked about it. It might be a strong board chair or CEO or somebody extra wealthy who everybody is intimidated by, or whatever. You know that those are all those are all very bad and counter to the culture that you’re talking about fostering. Um, what did you want? You got one. You do throw something out there? Sure. So I think another thing that an organization wants to do with with an individual is to make that individual comfortable, that they know who’s actually on the board and who the CEO is. Some some organizations recruit board members, and only one boardmember. Knows this new candidate. Nobody else has ever met him, you know, and they judge that candidate based on how they look on papers. But he’s got a good resume. Yes. Um, and this boardmember vouches for him, and we really need a boardmember. So let’s Alexis, um, yeah, uh, so you know that’s not a typical. It’s pretty common. So for non-profits have a system where they went. Why don’t we have that breakfast meeting or lunch meeting and bring out a few board members on bring out the CEO for one of these things. If you’re you know, it is a board member and the board really that important to an organization. And the law recognizes a tte the top of of what is still ah, hi article system in terms of governance, it’s the law requires, you know, that the board is at the top, then a boardmember position is super super important. And is the organization treating the addition of a boardmember as it is that important? And that’s a good sign of the board for an individual candidate and for aboard that actually sets it up so that they’re going to place proper priority to bringing on a new boardmember by letting the meet several board members and CEO and maybe attended board meeting without any, um, sort of strings attached. A visitor. You come out and see a get to know us, we’ll get to know, you know, that’s a promising Anything I haven’t heard that suggested for That’s a good one. Let someone come to a board meeting as a visitor as an observer, that was you mean? Yeah, exactly. Um, and I think they would get a sense of what the culture is much better from actually getting to be in the meeting. Even if they’re a silent observer. I’m sure there’s going to be some pleasantries exchanged, but they’ll know much better. And you get a sense out of them if you actually allow them to participate as part of the board. Um, at least with introductions and maybe what they want out of what their views are of the organization that that might be a nice baker. Also your point about doing it based on a breakfast meeting in a resume review that, um, yes, this is subsumed in what you were saying, really? But I won’t make it explicit that that that just doesn’t give, um doesn’t give credence to the, uh doesn’t respect the, uh, the position that you’re bored should be held in. It makes it, you know, just purely transactional. We need a body, she’s available, and she has a good resume that, you know, that doesn’t doesn’t, uh, give someone ah, feeling of prominence in the organization like Ajay. If it hadn’t been my warm body that that was brought in, there would have been some other warm body that they found the next day, but but a Siri’s where there’s multiple interviews to three interviews over several weeks on and there’s deliberation and you make sure the person shows up on time for the three interviews and takes them seriously, you know, those you can learn a lot just by observing somebody over over several weeks or maybe even over a couple of months. Yeah, I think that’s so true. And I met the okay with even introducing some perspective board members to certain staff beyond the CEO. Um, so and then soliciting staff input is, well, a thio what they think about this perspective. Candidates. Um, I, uh I am forgetting a good picture. Look all around from all people. Um, and Aziz said that the importance, I think articulated much better than I did. The importance of the position should be respected by the process. That’s what I meant to say. Yeah, I think you just said it better than I did. Okay. Really Got you said. You certainly said it more succinctly. That’s definitely true. Um, okay. You have one. You gotta You gotta basically have your compliance house in order your nine nineties articles of incorporation by-laws policies. Your financial statements, whether audited or not, All these things I mean, this is sort of foundational, but, you know, if there’s a problem in any of these, you’re you are got you at the organization are gonna look poor in the eyes of your perspective. Board members. That’s what I think. And I think as a perspective boardmember and I will give you this morning, actually for a board. So coincidentally, um, I’m gonna look at all these. Um and I will look at them with a bit of a critical eye to see if I see sloppiness. Where if I see vagueness in in what the missionary, I see a different mission statement in the articles from the by-laws the website. Like I had really tell what they’re doing where they’re 9 90 Just seemed to be like, very, you know, scattered. We prepared. Of course. I’m gonna see, you know, the financial. I’m gonna see how stronger week they appear, at least on paper. Moneywise. Um, so there’s a lot of things the documents are gonna show me. So if a non-profit is very careful about doing these things and finding on time, of course it I’ll see if they’re finally late and you know they’re suspended or delinquent or or whatever. So the non-profits should like when whenever you invite a houseguest over that you want to impress in, clean your house before you bring that person. And I think non-profits got to think this thing. Wait, they’re gonna bring the boardmember and again back-up prominent important positions. We’re going to clean our house so we can attract the best candidates. And hope will retain the best candidates as well. Well, Gene, that organization would be lucky to get you in-kind on. How many boards can you be on? My gosh, you’re on your own. You already you have time for? Yeah, I usually have a tube board maximum. But the organization that pocket is important enough. And I actually have a term off of another board. Uh, within the year that that gives me the ability to sort of overlap with three boards for maybe a few months. If I If I should be so lucky as to be elected by that order, um, But then then we’ll be back to two boards after that. Okay? I see you get you have a whole schedule of new spreadsheet to manage. You’re bored. You’re bored. Obligation? Yeah, actually. D’oh, I’m very careful about trying not overcome it. Let’s talk about something that you and I talked about. Oh, I don’t know. Three months or so ago, maybe 23 months. We had a real well, uh, meaningful conversation about diversity equity and inclusion. So without going over the that full hour that we spent, um, if this is important to the organization, then it’s going to want to recruit board members for whom that value is important. Yeah, I think so. Well, and if they’re looking to recruit, um, certain, uh, members of the community that might give the board more diverse representation. They’re gonna want to really think about making that person feel not like a token which we discussed about and have an inclusive environment that really welcomes their ideas and acknowledges and ensures that they’re able to exercise the power that they have in their position, that they have a voice in the organization and in the governance of the organization. They’re not just sitting by the sidelines, helping the board take a better looking picture. So it really is an issue. But it comes down to where? For an individual. If you believe strongly in that In in that diversity concept, um, and you are invited onto a board that’s not diverse, and you’re a member of the majority group. So let’s say the group is predominantly white man and your white male we get invited onto that board. Well, if you really falik the value of diversity equity inclusion, you might say, No, I’m not gonna take that position on that board because I would grab you see that board bring on somebody who does give you a more diverse perspectives representation on Guy might, you know, being part of the majority group, participate in another way to help you get that. But I don’t want to be part of a board and just make make that that issue on even harder one to deal with. So it’s an interesting situation for organizations that want to think about it. Um, if they want to bring in the best people, they’re gonna have to think about how they’re gonna address their composition issues as well. That that happens to be an issue. Yeah, no, it’s very altruistic. The way you describe you know, the selflessness of doing what’s right for the organization. Bye bye. Not not accepting a board position and flip that on its side. Uh, non-profits need to be, uh, thoughtful about who they are inviting If this is an important value for them, Jean, we gotta take our very last break turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories and get media attention on those stories all the while building support for your mission. They do media relations, content marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. You’ll find them at turn hyphen to dot CEO and Jean and I have but loads more time for recruiting your board members. Um, all right, G, you have something, uh, you want to bring up? Sure. I think maybe the next important point I wanted to bring up because it happened to the indication is non-profit is great. It’s filled with wonderful people and they they’re really working towards something that I believe in passionately in their culture is the great says everything seems to be fine, but at the moment they are confronting some really difficult issues that’s going to require extra effort extra tax from the board, and it might be a financial challenging, financially challenging time for them might be a leadership transition, that they’re losing a founder or expect long term executive director and they’re gonna move into a new one. They might be engaged in litigation for which they did nothing wrong. But all of this doesn’t They’re going to be sort of boiled in in lawsuits and potential PR damage that might go along with that on all of the things can create more work for aboard and definitely require more effort in intelligence impact from the board. I think non-profits have to let prospective board members know, even if those things have not hit the media are are really public yet that if they’re coming on toe into an organization that’s got some imminently difficult challenges that will be brought before the board, they want to know first. Is that the best time to recruit boardmember? Because it might not be. But if they are recruiting port members, I think they got to be up front again with them and not surprised them after their dahna boardmember got you. Now you gotta be on the committee that deals with art. Being involved in this lawsuit duty to disclose basically thing I think that that organizations have to be up front about that, obviously very tactful there. I know there are confidentiality issues that are gonna be weighing in on the other side of that transparency, so somethingto really managed very carefully and thoughtfully. You’re basically saying there’s a duty to disclose these these kinds of challenges, and that could be an opportunity the organization could could turn that into something, you know? Yeah, we have this particular financial challenge, but that’s why we’re looking for you. Andi is not to be a donor, but, you know, maybe it’s Ah, it’s a it’s a finance problem or an investment problem on endowment management problem or something. And so you’re can hyre are sorry. Recruit someone who has a particular expertise and that person could, you know, potentially be a leader in I don’t want to turning the organization around but guiding the organization out of the difficulty that they’re facing so it could present a challenge and an opportunity for non-profit and for a potential boardmember to come together and help each other. I think that’s very, very true. Yeah. And financial management expertise is, um, really sought after quality for a board members. And sometimes some boards have a hard time finding those people, so it’s a difficult issue. Arises. And, um, uh, they put extra effort into finding somebody like that that that can be an opportunity for referred bringing ana boardmember gonna be invaluable for many, many years. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what about, um, the, uh just, you know, sort of leadership personality, like, you know, Are you Are you? Ah. Are you messing? Well, you are. You messing well as leaders with the the potential boardmember do you put forth a, um, an image which hopefully is not merely a not a facade, but, you know, Are you confident you you convey confidence in the direction of the organization, the your leadership, your leadership style? Uh, you know, these, I think, are sort of intangibles that Ah, well, much of what we’re talking about is intangible, but that ah, potential boardmember is using toe assess whether they’re gonna fit. Yeah, absolutely. I’m sure they’re all the studies that we know of. Um, where first impressions are powerful tribes of what that relationship turns into um so or whether there is a continued relationship at all. Um, and I think that’s very true in bringing Ana boardmember as well. So boardmember gets introduced to a board chair or to an executive director or somebody else in a senior leadership position. And first impressions are going to develop pretty quickly. So certainly within the 1st 30 seconds Teoh a minute. Um, they’re going to be some presumptions that each side has about the other. And I think understanding the limits of what first impressions means are important for board members when you’re dealing with people who might be introverted or shy, and or maybe from a cultural, different cultural background not used to sort of exhibiting some of the the the confidence you know that you might find from another culture stressing that important in the first meeting maybe is more of a dimmer, demure attitude that is more valued by other cultures upon the first meeting, or that find that more appropriate. But I think we have to sort of take into account that there are different reasons that people are are showing for the first impression. But on the other side, when you’re the non-profit. You do want to make sure that you are giving the best impression we can, not just in the documents that we talked about earlier, but in your leadership. So I’m always a huge fan of education and trading, and I think boys don’t do that enough for their CEOs in their board chairs. Um, so yes, way kind of expect them to have the skill on. And maybe once in a while we’ll send them to a training where they’re just sort of getting training about the secretary, you know, in a sector wide conference or something. But are we really giving them training on on certain things that might be really, really relevant, but very, very specific? So if they’re the public face of the organization, should we be giving them some public relations training or some media training? Those things, too, just sort of think about it again. I’m a big fan of training, and the board can really help by saying we want allocate some resources to this on. Make sure that we’re providing for that, that that strong first impression and understanding about first impressions on their limitations when we’re judging other people on it. Yeah, I’ve seen instances to where, um, the organization invests in coaching for the CEO. I’ve seen that I’m not a couple times. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they see promise potential. But I guess the CEO, maybe, you know, like like all of us, I mean has some shortcomings. You know, maybe it’s Ah, I don’t know what leadership leader, management of the other C suite individuals. Or maybe it’s, you know, there’s not enough team building or something, you know, whatever it is, they see a need a gap, and, uh, they invest in a coach for the for that CEO. I think that’s such a great, um, uh, allocation of research from from from many organizations that have money to invest in their leadership leadership training. I think coaching from the right people could be invaluable even for a very, very senior executive. None of us have all of the tools and all of the best qualities. Andi executive director seems to need so many different skillsets so many experiences in so many abilities. I think coaching never heard. Um, we’ve talked about we talked about the consistency across documents, and so now we’re talking about meeting, meeting the leadership of the organization and maybe even meeting some staff, introducing staff to potential board members. You want to make sure that not only your documents but you’re your people boardmember Zand staff and see sweet alike are consistent in terms of messaging, that they all have the common vision that’s laid out in the vision statement and that the articles of incorporation of the by-laws without by-laws the articles of incorporation speak to know the people all need to be consistent, as as thes potential board members are interviewing them just as much as you’re interviewing the potential board members. Yeah, I think that’s very true. And I think when the, um kind of the things that I think is overlooked right now is the importance of memorializing or documenting the organization’s value. Um, in a document like the by-laws Wait, don’t do it. We have incited a standard practice. I’m trying to think about that being an actual, um, important section of the box by-laws. Really? Okay, Yeah, I think organizations Now, um, you’re driven by your your mission, of course, but it’s not just your mission. You’re also driven by your value because if your mission was, I don’t know. We talked about this example before, but your mission was just thio. If feed homeless people, you could just wait down suit on the sidewalk, right? You could play down slop there, and many homeless people have to eat it that nobody does that right, because that’s not within our values of having people had to be treated with dignity and respect. Um, organizations just won’t do that. But we don’t explicitly say why we don’t just affect the mission, you know, to the maximum degree by just doing things without, you know, care and just laying it out. So I think it’s really important that we say what our values are and how the values that I think about are those that will guide our decisions so that it actually stops us from saying we’re gonna spend a maximum amount to get the most people served. No, we’re gonna not spend the maximum to maximize the number of people served. We want to maximize the service that we’re giving as well in balance, that and why are we doing that because of these values? And I think that has to be documented. So with that we know we actually share them with all the people, including the perspective boardmember. We don’t just assume it. That may not be true. Okay, Jeanne, we gotta leave it there. Well said he’s managing attorney of Neo non-profit Exempt Organizations Law Group in San Francisco. You’ll find the block post that we were speaking from at non-profit law block dot com, which you should be subscribed to its 12 considerations before you join that non-profit board. But I’m not sure I don’t want I don’t want a decrease traffic on hits to your site, But I think we I think we did a pretty good job of going through. Ah, all these 12. Maybe we didn’t. You know, we didn’t explicitly one through 12 but I think we’ve covered the vast majority. These, if not if not everything. Jean, thank you very much. Thanks for sharing your expertise. Thanks so much, Tony. Really appreciate it. My pleasure. Next week. Scale up and sustain with Kathleen Kelly. Janice. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers Witnessed gps dot com but koegler Mountain Software, Denali fundez. They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits. Tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. A creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein, who is me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern Time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned Potential Live Life Your way on talk radio dot N Y C aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. 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Nonprofit Radio for October 4, 2019: Beyond Local & Online To IRL

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Emma Togni: Beyond Local
We’re talking about scaling your community. Want to go regional? National? Global? Stay online or move to IRL? My guest from 19NTC is Emma Togni with Social Techno. This is our last of 32 19NTC interviews.

 

 

 

Amy Sample Ward

Amy Sample Ward: Online To IRL
Amy Sample Ward continues our convo and focuses on in real life community building. Drawing on NTEN‘s experience, she has strategies for growth and local empowerment, and shares resources. She’s our social media and technology contributor and NTEN’s CEO.

 

 

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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped for the diagnosis of trypanosomiasis if you infected me with the idea that you missed today’s show beyond local We’re talking about scaling your community. You want to go regional, national global, stay online or move to in real life. My guest from 19 and T. C is Emma Tony with social techno, and this is our last of the 30 to 19 ntcdinosaur views and online to i r l Amy Sample Ward continues our convo and focuses on in real life community building. Drawing on intense experience, she has strategies for growth and local empowerment and shares. Resource is she’s our social media and technology contributor and intends CEO Tony’s take two planned giving thievery responsive by witnessed e. P. A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com Bye Cougar Mountain Software Denali fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn to communications, PR and content for non-profits your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO and here is beyond local. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC. That’s the 19. That’s 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. We’re at the convention center in Portland, Oregon. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue free fund-raising Tools for non-profits to help them make an impact. But I’m right now with Emma Tony. She’s a marketing manager at social techno and, uh, welcome, Emma. Thank you. Thank you, Tony. Does it have you? Andi, your topic is creating global communities online and in real life. So we’re talking about scaling groups. So you might have a local group. Might be a tech group. Might be a healthcare group for chess playing or dog walking. I don’t know. You have a community, local community somewhere. And we’re talking about scaling that you might not go global, but maybe you’ll go statewide from town or national to st. You wantto You wanna help us do that? Yeah, s o in Texas. We are actually a global community. So we round in Italy, as social tech knows essential enterprise. The text of global Network program. So actually we are. We have been scaled by a tech soup and precisely in, especially in Italy, we have different kind off communities. We are building up in the third sector. Um, for example, we gather people from different sector. We didn’t the non-profit one that help and we enable collaboration and relationship with between these kind of people. And we help to connect this people with other organizations abroad. So we really believe in the power off connecting people around the world. And we do this via, for example, train activities or out of events we do in Italy as well as in the Europe will get a chance to dive into the details. But you’re doing this both online and in real life. Yeah. Where you based in Italy were busy. Milan, You’re in Milan. I have spent a little time there. I flew in and out of that. Malpensa is the airport. Yeah, but I’ve spent a couple nights in Milan. I know, but I’ve been to really I’ve been totally five times. Uh, from Rome. Naples, way down South Georgia. Toto, which is in Calabria, of course. Vonette Cia, Forenza Bland Palermo. Ging quit arika. Yeah. Come back, durney. I have I will again. But I have been back many times. There are other places to visit to after I think they have to be more egalitarian about my my international travel. You spread it out a bit. Um Okay, So, um, how do we get started? I suppose we let’s ah, let’s say because more likely for our listeners, Aaron Small and midsize non-profits. So it’s more likely that there let’s say their local or they might be statewide and they want to go from they want to go to statewide if their local or national you know, if they’re if they’re statewide, how do we How do we get started? We have this ambition. Now what do we have? How do we channel our ambition? Thio, meet our goal to be statewide national. I would say Let’s start from your mission. If your mission is, um is strong enough and it’s it’s scalable. Let’s say so. If you have a mission that could be actually spread it around the world. So stuff from that and ask yourself what’s the best? The best way to scale this mission around the world. For example, in tech soup, we do have the mission off building a bridge between no profits and the technology and to empower non-profits in the use of technology with air. Well, they’re on a mission. So beginning from these, the statement we were like, What’s the best play to the best way to, you know, to do these two actual to deliver these mission around the world is to be partner off local s social enterprises around the word. So actually, the Texas back-up program is round by social enterprises. Locally, look for look for local partners. Exactly. Get started. Exactly. So our claim is they need these global and so we are. So they need is the need for technology and the use off a technology from the non-profit secretaries is something that it’s global, but only the local enterprises, Maybe they do have that knowledge about the non-profit locally, that is, that enables the tax up to, uh to run their their mission locally. Okay, so they have the knowledge off the territory, the knowledge off the third sector in the nation. So this is the model that we use. So think about the mission and the better as well. The business model that can fit. Because, of course, there’s gonna be local expertise. Yeah, you know your scale. It’s it’s expertise in a in a nation, my example. It’s local. It’s expertise a little broader in your state or in other states, um helps to have that buy-in and on dat knowledge of culture then and also because you’re your topic and we’re talking about in real life. So ultimately, we want to get not just from online communities. We want we want to be meeting face to face. And if you have local partners, you’ll have maybe some brick and mortar. Or at least you know where you can gather. You know you’ll have those local contacts. Yeah, for example, we do have a known online platform that we share with the older partners off tax, which are more than 70 in 230 plus countries in the world. So we have this platform in common, but actually, when it comes to real life, we really rely on the initiative of the single partner in the nation. So, for example, in Italy, we do a lot off local events around around Italy to help non-profits to get access to the technology as well as food and wine events. Absolutely absolutely Happy hour thing. Part off the key important meeting in the morning after hours. Exactly Good. Yeah, it’s a good way to networking actions, so you need in person over food and drink. It’s time for a break. Witness C P. A’s They had a wagon are on September 25th. It was exempt or nonexempt. Forget it. You missed it. But you do know that you still need to classify your employees correctly. So don’t worry. You got nothing to worry about because you watch the archive. You goto Wagner cps dot com Click Resource is and recorded events that simple. Now let’s go back to beyond Local Let’s see what else we talked about flexible of programs, programs that adjust to the local culture. How do you, um, how do you think about that? And you met you make those adjustments and have that kind of flexibility. When you’re you’re a global organization, you’re there. So there is an umbrella organization. There’s gotta be some structure, but you want to be flexible enough to accommodate other other cultures to how do you balance those? Yeah, for example, tech soup. Global rounds tax, of course, is mainly online. So and we decided to go for these models. So we do provide courses online, but as well as in person. So because in Italy will are a small country, right. So we have the possibility off also for the location where we are small, small, but beautiful. Exactly. So we are the capability to reach out to people, to gather people in a room and to deliver workshops and also in tailor made courses and train activities in house like we go to the non-profit and we hold workshops on their premises. So, you know, disease are kind off. Um, this is the way we scaled program, which is international, about the courses. And we adjusted to the specific reality off the Italian lorts sector. Now, tech soup also needs to manage language language barriers. Now, in my example, we’re not gonna have language barriers, Although somebody from the north might not understand someone from the South. But that’s more mindset, I think, than language and language. But in your case, how do you overcome barriers of language for an international organization? So we partners off tax super. We have the zoning platform where we all work together in on. Actually, the off course. English is key to collaborate, but also all the materials, the tool kids, the marketing materials as well that we share our translator localized by the single partner. Also because, um, it’s not not not only a matter off translating the words, it’s some better off finding the right communication words for your audience. Because if you talk about, for example, digital transformation, you have to, ah, took with the words off your audience. So it’s not only a matter off translating from English, it’s a matter off getting the same wavelength off your audience. So it’s on this kind of work. Okay, okay. So well, there again, you have your local partners think valuable for that. Um, so tech soup has, uh, they have their social events as well? A CZ. You want to keep it social too? I mean, aside from the learning the learning environments, do you have just purely social events as well? Is that valuable? Yeah. In Italy, we do a lot off local events with our donor partners, For example, you know, Google Airbnb. Microsoft s so big brands, Um, and the in-kind off events locally that we we host our training activities mainly. So we have we Our mission is to build capacity and digital competences your sector. So we do. Do you have some social events also that are not training oriented? Just pure social? Um, yeah. Networking events with some began NGOs are ampules in the in Italy yet, you know, to spread the voice about tax soup to build strategic partnership and relationships with some non-profit organizations in the territory s Oh, yeah. We do have also live events on Facebook as well, because it’s a It’s a community, which, where, um, that it’s built on online and offline. Is there also? Ah, you know, people Facebook. Facebook is annoying. A lot of people I see, I actually see. I see a lot of people moving to zoom video over Facebook live. I’ve done that myself. But I’m not just using myself as an example. You got the idea from a lot of other people. Okay, Who? I’ve, um I just I just see getting away from Facebook live. I’m invited to fewer Facebook live events, and I’ve been invited to more zoom events in the in the past year than had been in previous years. Yeah, this is a good example off and not a scalable tool. Because if I if I you would do ah Azuma event in Italy, they wouldn’t understand even what zoom is maybe no. So they must use use the tool for prom M peels in Italy are eyes facebook. So you need to ask yourself, Where is my audience? You’re internationally. Zoom is not exactly so. You need to ask yourself Where is these? May be a great idea. Maybe we do use, for example, tools that are not used by at the other impurities in Italy. But not because we are enthusiastic about the tool is that means that it’s used from from Iran. So I really have to be humbled to ask yourself, Where is my union’s? Am I willing to reach out to them where they are, where they’re very good point? Yeah, you’re right. Zoom is not international. And Facebook. Facebook is a big advocate of zoom. Yeah, but absolutely right. Good point. Thank you. Um, you also made another point about corporate sponsorships. If you’re going abroad or you’re just going beyond your own communities. I’ve been saying, um there may be a sponsorship opportunities for for your events in the places where you’re expanding too. Yeah. Could you mentioned Airbnb and, uh, Microsoft? Yeah. Or, for example, with Amazon web services. We did our road show, which is actually international. So we started over in in Italy. It’s basically our train activity about all the services off Amazon for the non-profits. Um, so we started in Italy, and they got enthusiast about this this kind of event. So they scaled in the UK and in Australia working alongside with the local Texas partners. So this is on. This is a good chance to get funding for, for an event, get the non-profit trained about that digital tools and make everyone happy. Another possibility. Overlap between doing international work and maybe and going national is time zones. How do you How do you overcome internationally? You can have 12 hours difference, but nationally, you know, if you just if you’re going from your state to the country just three hours difference, but that can That can make a difference. How do you What’s your advice for overcoming time zone differences, We plan ahead. So if we have to work with the U. S colleagues, for example, we plan Thio, you know, to make the actions Radi before you know the time zones. Um so actually, we we use a lot off tools for project management. A share with the colleagues. Ah, lot off. You know, also teamwork, um, tools that help us to keep up to date with the medical leagues. So, yeah, we really rely on these kind of tools, like slack or yeah, So we leave that. Okay? Yeah. I live on a little more about having things ready in advance. What do you mean, there? Eso? Because we have a lot off that lines, for example, for launching a new product for launching a new program which is international. So we are alerted by the US colleagues, and then we plan ahead or our actions so that when they when they say we go live on this day, we are already we are ready to be to be live. Um, you talk some about threats of closing civic spaces. I don’t know if that could happen in the U. S. It seems like anything could happen these days, so I’m not gonna discount that possibility. What? What? One of the problems there first. Before you get to what? What you do too, to try to help prevent that. But what problems do you have about closing of civic spaces? Um, we don’t have these big issue in Italy, to be honest, but we are experiencing Ah, great reform off the off the third sector, which is like shrinking the power off non-profit toe, make a greater social impact in terms off hyre toe toe, make the, for example, some restrictions, some fines as well a taxation. They are getting higher and higher. So you know these These are little adjustments to the low that actually prevent ah, no profits to have the freedom to act finds for what? For purposes finds for what reason? Because And the main finishes suppression. What’s the What’s the reason? Yeah, The main issue is they want to get rid off the little organization that the head doesn’t have, ah, social impact. So the little months made up off 1 to 2 people, they want to structure them as an enterprise or as our structure impute so they don’t want to have a long tail off the sort of sector, saying that there are billions off non-profits that they have just the label. But they don’t do actually something impactful. Back-up uh, what’s telling What’s the reaction among the third sector in Italy? Thio. Making operations more efficient? What’s the reaction? There is a lot of buzz. Ah, and also they are forced to publish, like a balance sheet off their activities and our social impact kind of assessment. So we expect super. We’re trying to help them to a bill this kindof assessment off their activities to be published online. There is a really a blurriness around this topic in Italy now because the reform is not published like formally now. So we’re still waiting for, you know, news and updates from the government. So this is a government agency that would yeah, coordinating all this data elearning on deciding which organizations can continue non-profits and which have to be enterprises incorporated as enterprising. And it’s becoming also like a requirement to be, um, at a certain point, digital s o. They are calling the third sector to be digital transformed, you know, So because this is our kind off our requirements from the low so way are trying to, you know, work with work week with the no profits toe. Get them trained. Is that Is that a change that could be legislated? Cannot be Yes. We all should be using technology smartly. It makes us more productive. But is that is that a change that could be give you created by government? Fiat Yeah. Okay, I get to I give you Ah little example. For example, now in Italy, it’s ah, it’s a low to make the voicing Onley digitally and Elektronik Lee so can’t have paper invoice anymore. No, no, no, no. For commercial. This is for companies also not just for the company itself, for from the small medium and large enterprises. So if your name Asmal our medium impose, you have to be ready for the electronic invoicing. So this is a trick, right? So you if you don’t have some digital skills or technology competences, you’re not ready to deliver the service. So this is an example Floor Yeah, s So what is the little what? What is the little, uh, a little past each area? How did they How did they take of the fruit flavored order on the corner. How did they How did they comply with this? I’m not sure they are involved in this kind of legislation, but for sure, the medium big M peels and enterprises are, for example, we as a social enterprise. We do deliver Elektronik invoicing now. Well, yeah, next to tech soup can I’m worried about All right, So you’re not so smart s o. So maybe it’s not the smallest businesses, or they are like, I suppose you just have three or four people. Family, family? Uh, yeah, family business on the corner. Uh, they are they covered by this way are 10 to 15 people in Texas, Italy. But we are, um, coping with, ah, lot off appeals. And we have the, you know, the donation program and the all the services. So we are absolutely involved in this in-kind off legislation because smaller non-profits are encompassed by that. Okay. Uh, no, you’re very interesting. He’s from the word. Pardon me news from from either in the world. Do we still have another five minutes or so together? What? What else? What else would you like to share on this topic? that we haven’t talked about yet. Um, for example, I’d like to share the fact that I would like to scale this kind of vivendi and 10 in Italy. Son was wondering if it’s feasible, actually, because it would be really interesting for the third sector in Italy to have this kind off initiative. And so, yeah, you doctor and 10 about that. Not yet. I knew some some off the text Super advisory board. The stuff easy involved in the intent is helping. Intend to plan this out? S Oh, yeah. Let’s see. Let’s see. I went to a I went to a fund-raising conference in Italy. I spoke at a fund-raising conference. Um, it was, uh, first of all, it was festival del fund-raising. Wow. Do you know it is their most probably five years ago or so? What’s the name of the man who runs the radio? Dellaccio Melinda. Melinda. You know Valerio durney? Well, he was teaching a columbia for a couple of years. Is he’s busy back home in Italy now, or Yeah, New York. No, no, no. He’s anything. You know, I met him when he was teaching at Columbia. Yeah. Valerio invited me Valerio. Melinda? Yeah, like this. We have friends. So he he holds a really interesting event about fund-raising. So we have the first of all. Yeah. Yeah. Still seal were sponsor off the this kind of event of sex of Italy. And also, we were trying to do the same four months off land about but about technology, so it would be really interesting. Okay, so there will be a intend Italy. So you know that I would come, I would come and I could talk about podcasting. Yeah, I heard there was a very popular podcasting workshop here. I could do a podcast in workshop there. Have how to start a podcast. I could actually. Oh, yeah. At the festival del fund-raising. I was talking about my other work, which is planned. E-giving. It’s a It’s a form plane. Giving fund-raising would Wouldn’t Wouldn’t be good for a tech soup. Confident I could totally do my other. My other friend in Italy is, uh, where this goes way back. My first trip in Italy. His name was Mario Bootsy. He’s not You don’t know Mario, but he’s from Milano, actually is from Wow. But But this was my first trip to Italy was in 1990. Notes. I graduated from law school. Was that 19 2098? No. When did I graduate from law school? In 1989 to 92? I graduate in 1992 So let’s go back to 1992. You were very young. Then Mario, Bootsy and I met. We were sitting next to each other at the We were there to see Aida at the Baths of Caracalla in Roma. So he’s a He was a bartender. He was a bartender in Milano, but he was on. It was August. He was a foregone stow the August vacation time. I’m not saying that for you listeners, you don’t know if argast Oh, is. It was for a ghost. Oh, so he was on vacation in in Roma. Um, I bought a ticket there, Aida at the Baths of Caracalla, which, of course, operated live operating room. It was a four or five hour production. There were live animal, there were camels and tigers and well, it’s the desert. Maybe the Warren Tigers. But whatever, there were camels. There were camels on the stage and Mario boats and and there were two intermissions because it’s so long. Mario Boats and I I spoke just a little bit of Italian poker, and he spoke even less English. But he and I carried on so well during the intermission, we had drinks together and then we walked back. He we left and we walked back. I walked back to my stay Attila pin pin Cioni on, uh, he was going back to wherever he was staying in Rome for his vacation time, but we got along famously for well, like a five hour production in another hour and 1/2. Walker’s because a long walk And I thought, You know, if the two of us Me and Mario Booty the new law student, the new law grad from I’ve been to law school through law grad from the U. S. And the bartender from Milano and we could get together this way and neither one of us has treyz translators. I thought, you know what a way to bridge differences over over Aida Karnak Ala was created because of me. Then community and I, we were in touch for a while, and then we’ve fallen out of touch instead. But But I still number his name? Mario. Bootsy. You have to come back. Oh, I’ve been okay. All right. I guess usually I let my guests wrap up, but I just Did you take the last few minutes encourage boards of encouragement? Um, stimulation, You know, what would you like to close with? Um, I would like to to tell to older non-profit sector around the world to be courage enough to take all the, um, their mission and their competences within the organization to strive to do the best to make our social impact, which is, ah, related to their territory specifically. And don’t forget to death globally and go global. All right. She is Emma Tony, marketing manager at Social Techno. And you are with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 2019 ntcdinosaur profit Technology Conference. Emma, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, darling. Thank you, listeners. Very, very gracious. And all our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software designed from the bottom up for non-profits. Simple to use phenomenal support. Can you say that about your accounting software? Have you got accounting software? You’re not still using Excel spreadsheets? I hope not. Please don’t tell me that. Cougar Mountain. If you’re in any of those situations where you can’t say yes to all those things or you’re still using spreadsheets, check out Cougar Mountain. They have a free 60 day trial. You’ll find that you know where on the listener landing page at tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now, Time for Tony. Take two. I was accused of being a thief. Um, this was by a niece years ago who did not trust me with her aunts Jewelry. This is back when I was a nem ploy e a director of planned e-giving. What she said to me was just incredible. Um, she was, uh, she was trying to ask. She’s actually trying to curry favor with me because she wanted me to reduce the university’s interest. I was working at the University of the time, interest in an estate, and she was a beneficiary of the state. So if if I was willing to accept less for the university, she would have got more um it doesn’t work that way, but she didn’t understand that on dumb. Amazing. So she went so far as to accuse me of being a thief. And you just have to check out the video. Thio, Hear the full story? That’s with Peter Heller. He hosted me on Heller Consulting Group Video. Siri’s. You’ll find the video, though, on my site at tony martignetti dot com. And that is Tony. Take two. Let’s do the live love. It’s gotta go out If you’re listening live The love goes out to you wherever you are If you’re in New York, New York if you’re in Beijing Uh, who else checks infrequently? Oh, of course. Bangalore, India. We’ve heard from recently, uh, California. Often checking in, um, New Jersey, Yes, North Carolina. Wherever you are listening live The love goes out to you. So glad you’re with us. And the podcast Pleasantries. You gotta have it. Can’t If you’re gonna live us in love, You got a podcast. Pleasantries. You can’t have one without the other. So the pleasantries go out too. That’s where the vast majority of our audience those over 13,000 people listening each and every week. Amazing it really is amazing. I don’t know. Sometimes I wonder why Why you stick with this? But I know you’re not leaving because it’s good value. That’s why. So the podcast Pleasantries going out. Thank you for being with us at whatever time you listen. However, we fit into your weekly or monthly podcast scheduling pleasantries to you. It’s my pleasure to welcome back Amy Sample Ward. You know Amy Sample word. She’s our social media and technology contributor and CEO of inten. Her most recent co authored book is Social Change Anytime, Everywhere about online multi-channel engagement. She’s that Amy Sample War Dot or GE And at Amy R. S. Ward. They are, of course, for Renee. How are you? Any simple word? I’m good. I’m good. How are you? I’m doing very well, Thank you. Glad you’re with us. Back. Back with us. Yes, I It is always fun. OK, good, very state that very clearly so very clearly and emphatically. So it must be unless there’s somebody twisting your arm to say, Say, fun, tell him it’s fun, but it’s not because you’re in. You’re in Oregon and I’m in New York, so it’s not me doing that it must be someone else. Um, well, no. I do wish that we could coordinate for on in person, not at the NTC. Like back in New York in the studio recording for one of these? Yeah, You missed getting to go because it feels so much more official than just talking to you on the phone right now. You know, they’re with headphones on and a big microphone. That’s like, the proper way to do it. Yes, you do. Yeah. Andi, we’re in a new studio where two studios from the last duty or you were in with me. We’re not now. Yeah, we’re in a new studio. Just Ah, just a couple weeks. But this is my first recording in the new studio and tomorrow’s show we’re recording on Thursday. Of course, tomorrow’s show will be the very first, very first full show in the studio, so Yeah, well, when you’re in New York, you let me know and we’ll we’ll do our best to work it out. Okay, I will. Okay. In the meantime, let’s talk, uh, trans nationally, Um, and, uh, Emma. Emma, Tony was just talking about my burning my burning question. From what she said, Is there gonna be on ntcdinosaur Lee because she wants one? Well, I appreciate that He does. And I appreciate this is so important to you that you consider it a burning question myself. Course. Didn’t you clearly want to go back to Italy? I would look exactly, exactly right. Fund-raising present involved. L fund-raising was wonderful. Is there gonna be in it will be an NTC, which she called in 10. But we know everybody does that, but she means ntcdinosaur Is it gonna be one in Italy? 2020 2021. Uh, well, we have plenty of NTC contracts for 2021 22 contracting 23 right now and 24 later this year. All of those locations are in the continental U. S. And 10 you know, has a office in Portland. So we as staff, are always trying to petition Andrea unconference director to let us go to Hawaii for NBC. We haven’t done that quite yet. We haven’t. We haven’t won her over. You know, we do get a number of folks request stains, even if it isn’t the NTC as the NTC. But at least requesting that N 10 convene events in other parts of the world and that the US is super awesome. It’s great that people really trust and enjoy the events that we put on at this point. You know, we have kind of a two sided coin to this for the NTC. It just has not made sense for our mission and our Gail and how many staff we have to try and go outside the U. S. For our other programs where they’re delivered online. And that is definitely something that folks do actively participate in from all over the world. We have folks who gotten their professional certificates from us, for example from, um, Switzerland and Canada and the all over. So we know that those programs are easier for us to scale in that way. But the NTC hasn’t yet. However, I and other staff often support convenience elsewhere. Whether we’re on, you know, planning teams are we helped recruit speakers or we ourselves travel there to speak. So the end 10 the in tennis that we can contain as individuals gets to go to other places. But so far on the docket, there is not an empty seat. Aly and very sorry. Okay, I understand. This is this is why you’re a CEO. So so diplomatic and eloquent. If somebody asked me that question and I was in your job well, first of all, I would never get hired. I could never be a jump. But assuming I was in some hypothetical world, my answer would be No, no, no, no. Plan to go to Italy. We’re not. You know, it’s We normally have around 20 countries outside the U. S. Represented at the MTC, and we often prioritized some portion of our scholarships for international participants because we know that the cost burden for them to come from very far away is so much higher than folks within the continental U. S. So we we recognize and really appreciate that there is a really international community for intent. It isn’t just us spoke, of course. Um, yeah. Okay. So, so diplomatic. So you know that I’ve ever been called, Have Now you have now. Yeah, I I’m gonna yet save this recording, and I think I’m beautified. I know you pretty well. You know what? We’ll talk every week, but I think I know you fairly well. I think your diplomatic. Yeah, I’m Bonified. My opinion destroyed already. Um, so related to the end. 10 work, of course, is Ah, a big part of the intern. Work is local real time events that you have scaled throughout the country, and I think even aren’t you Also is there Aren’t there in 10 events in in London, too? Yeah, they’re in 10 events. In-kind the U S or international. Exactly. So, yeah, that’s our That’s our topic. Um, what do we, uh, What’s what’s your What are your thoughts on what you heard? And yeah, I mean things that I was talking about that Not that I don’t think she doesn’t agree. Just that you two didn’t get into details. And now I get the benefit of going of going. Second is the idea about localizing that content, you know, making it you’re talking about, like not just translating from English to another language, but really making sure it’s relevant to folks in that area and something that we’ve found a lot is you can’t You can’t say toe a whole network of local groups, right? Like tomorrow we’re talking about this topic because even the topic isn’t gonna be relevant in every single space. Right? Or the way folks talk about that topic may be very different. And I’m sure you experienced this in fundrasing work to write, like, some people are going to call a certain thing by a different term. And if you tell everybody this is the term we’re using, there’s going to be certain pockets of the community that just don’t even care because they don’t realize you’re talking about the same thing. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, terms, um, and just sensibilities. You know how you would go about fund-raising in one part of the country is very different than how you might do it in the Northeast, where people are often considered brash and too forward has to be more genteel in other parts of the country, like Midwest. I’m thinking probably south to I haven’t worked there, but yeah, absolutely. So, um yeah, that Andi, you’re right. We do. We sort of just touched on that, But the local sensibilities and that’s the advantage of local partnerships. I mean, you need to you need to rely on them as much as they’re relying on you for some support, right? And I think that kind of relationship and roll piece is what makes her brakes programs like this right. Organizations see themselves as having the role of making decisions, letting all of those folks on the ground know what the decision is and they’re there to implement it. That’s not motivating for them, but also it’s not going to be reflective of those local communities, right. So organizations already doing this type of work or trying to move towards this type of work really need to recognize that their role is meant to be the aggregator of what’s happening those groups and not the decider of what happened in those groups. Of course, that’s not to say, like all of your community groups can just run amok and do whatever they want Theirs, of course guidelines and hopefully lots of shared values and principles and purpose to why these groups are meeting and really focusing on that shared purpose will make sure the topics they bring up for what they want to d’oh with their group kind of stays in the right realm. But it then gets to be in their control and as the organization you’re there to aggregate it lifted back-up make sure it’s profiled, and that even goes, as far as you know, talking about tools. And I would love to hear your take. I know you were talking a little bit with them about Facebook live. I also have seen far fewer Facebook live. Um, invite your organizations using that, Um, so we can talk about that in a second, but just along the same lines as an organization, it’s not gonna work. If you tell everything, will group. You have to use the book live for your event because there’s gonna be groups that maybe are really small and only have a few people, and none of them know how to do that. And it’s better that that group is meeting than that group is trying to spend their time figuring out how to broadcast their meetings. Right? So not saying every single person, regardless of your location and contacts and topic, needs to use Facebook lives. But, hey, if you want to and you are able to stream, here are a few different tools. You know, you mentioned Zoom, for example, something that we do it intended. We say you get to use and 10 zoom account right like you don’t even need to try and pay for it or figure it out. We will just let you log in and host your event, right? So making it accessible and then folks can choose Oh, for us. Like we do know how to use Zoom. We know how this works. We’re going to do it. And another group could use Facebook live. Another group doesn’t have to use anything, you know, And recognizing that that means as the organization, you’re not going to get to see the event on dhe. They not every single group on your Web site is gonna have a little video link, and that has to be okay, right? There has to be, um, expectation that not every single group is gonna look exactly the same. It’s gonna have all the same content gonna have all of the same outlets and that that doesn’t mean the program isn’t successful, right? No, it’s not very hard because we’re used to having, like, a very perfect spreadsheet that says, like, Yes, yes, yes. All these groups did this, right? So having all the groups have different way they operate, makes it harder to evaluate. And that’s our problem is the organization. It’s not the program’s problem. Yeah, Yeah. Excellent. Okay. You raised a couple things. Uh, we’re gonna that we’re about to take a break. But I see an analogy with this in years ago when we used to talk about should should the community allow public Facebook comments, you know, are in any of the public networks I see in an analog to that. And then also, I want to talk some more about what kind of support a lot of the larger organization can offer. Thio local whatever they’re called. Chapters, affiliates groups, however, but we got to take this. Take this break, all right? It’s our last break. Turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories and get media attention on those stories and build support for your work. You can count on them. This is what they do. Media relations, content, marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. You’ll find them a turn hyphen to dot ceo. I’ve got butt loads more time with Amy Sample Ward. So yes. So I see. I see this analogy to I guess it was eight years ago or something? Whatever. Seven years ago, we’re talking about public comments. What if people say things that we don’t like? Um, you know, I’ve seen analogy out. There will be things we don’t like all day long, but the fear that you know, the fear going into this that it would be it would be anarchy. And, well, you know, uh, we won’t be ableto moderator. Should we Should we delete, you know, et cetera. So I sort of seeing an analogy to that. Those conversations we used to have back and I guess the dark days of social, the social networks. Well, you know, this might TF some of the conversation you want to have about resource ing, but I think the the biggest investment that organizations need to make in a program like this, where you’re gonna have distributed community groups of some sort, running some type of programming that you’re not present for is to invest in whoever those organizers are gonna be. The more they feel like an extension of the organization and actual leaders of this program, the more they’re going to feel comfortable and confident managing those types of reputational risk in person. on your behalf, right? If they feel like they’re just here to implement something and you know the organization sent them this saying that says Okay, go to here. Here’s the contact at the venue. We’ve already picked the venue. You didn’t even get to pick that, you know, And they’re showing up. Well, they’re not really filled with a bunch of responsibilities, right? So they’re not going to take it upon themselves to say, Hey like that we’re not having that conversation here. Or that’s not feedback that we’re having in this room, you know, whatever. But if you are really invested in them and building them up as the ambassadors and leaders of this program, they will be able to kind of carry that forward for you in person. And that’s the best safeguard you could build empowerment, empowerment you want. You want to empower your local leaders like and, as I was saying earlier, relying on them to but empowering them what, what some other kind of support. I mean, you mentioned a platform support. That’s that’s valuable, although, like you said, some groups might just want to meet. Maybe they only want to meet in real life. Maybe they’re tired of whatever they do or, you know, I mean, I think it’s also a good recognition that not all events format are great for streaming my right. Ah, an event that, you know, maybe in the summer, instead of having a speaker of the event. It’s a networking social. Nobody wants to be on video, just watching a bunch of people who were having to write. Recognizing that one piece of support we often find ourselves providing to Organizer’s is help this kind of mixing things up and having different formats and actually knowing, Ah, great deal about how you just put on events, right? So that we are a resource for them. Any time where they say, Okay, we don’t have a speaker lined up. Should we just cancel anything you don’t have to cancel? There’s lots of different event for months, but don’t have a featured speaker here, Like, you know, let’s open the kind of metaphorical binder and go through it together, right? So, being experts internally again, not so that you are prescribing, requiring the way that organizers do there that you are then, like the Event Planner Dictionary. For them, it’s super, super helpful and probably the number one thing that organizers in our programs like that call on us for all the time. The very first thing I thought of when you and Emma started talking with something that you and I have talked about a number of times, including, you know, insert. However many years ago, we first started doing these segments and that the if an organization is already taking the time to build up a program, why not build those resource is into tool kits and templates so that organizers don’t even have to bother emailing or calling you to ask for that help. Right? There’s a tool kit that says, Here are three event formats that don’t have a speaker, right? And they could just be like, Oh, phew! Okay, let’s choose one of these, you know, for next month. Since we don’t have a speaker. Whatever building up ready to use resource is is I mean, I could never recommend it enough. You’re already doing that work. You probably already built the template. You just keep it on your computer instead of putting it somewhere where all the organizer’s can access. Okay. Excellent. Yeah, right. the work is done. Just share it way, right? Yeah. Yeah. And we’ve talked about that in terms of identity. And, um what else? What else should be what? It zoho obvious that I can’t think of them. I don’t do this, but what else should be shared like that? Like like meeting temple? Well, yeah, that’s definitely like event formats and that kind of thing. Honestly, the things that we have, especially new Organizer’s folks who are just coming in into that role, but often times in a new city, right? Not that they’re new to that city, but it’s a new city for the program or our new location for the program. The things that they really really benefit from our templates for e mails because that’s where they get to start learning the tone and the personality of the program, right? They’re not expected to know that off the bat and be ableto, you know, send emails out to the local list and everything without just on their own, already knowing that giving them templates like, Hey, here’s the first message that you could send out that says, Hey, we’re starting a group and we want to do a survey of what folks want locally. Amglobal latto. Or here’s a email template for when you have an event scheduled in your, you know, sending it out to put on people calendars. And over time they’ll stop needing those things, but really just definitely something you already have. Right now we have every man we’ve ever sent, so just pull out some of those example. Emails kind of make them generic, right? Like in all caps, City name or whatever. But that’s a huge reverse that folks really have taken a man’s job in our program because it just saved them a lot of stress thinking they’re going to say the wrong thing on Dhe. We interpret that is them really caring right and wanting to make sure that they’re representing and 10 the best they can. And so we want to take that pressure off them and to say, Here are templates and it’s okay to use the gifts and, you know, do what you want to do, have fun with the group because that’s really how we want our kind of brand to be extended, and that takes a lot of pressure off. So basic emails events format and then things like, How do you find a venue and how do you get a local sponsor? Because oftentimes, at least in our experience and our programs, the folks who become organizers are there because they really love the people in the content of the meetings, not because they’re very experienced or even enjoy, like the hustle around town of like High. Will you give us $100 high? Will you donate some pizza? Hi. Can we meet in your office? You know, that’s not the fun part of organizing. And so tips and resource sheets that say, You know, many cities have these types of venues Coworking faces library e-giving them kind of ah, starter kit of where to look for reverses and venues is also really helpful. And we’ve found that’s one of the tools that folks organizer’s like to contribute back thio and add their ideas. So then the next time an organizer is looking at it also has ideas from from other organized. All right, all right. We met at the local museum, and it was fabulous, and they even included a brief tour of the collection and yeah, yeah, Okay. Yeah, learning from each other. Of course. Wonderful. Um, you mentioned Facebook live vs Zoom. And you wanted a want to flush that out a little more, I think. Yeah, I was just curious what you have, what? Your experience that has been. I know that you know that you did some tests with Facebook live? Yeah, it’s difficult. Yeah, I think the 1st 1 failed. Technically, technically. And I have an excellent social manager, Susan Chavez, who are happy to shout out. But there was some button radio, you know, some radio button wasn’t selected right or something. And the thing failed. Um, yeah. And and she knows what she’s doing. No, but yeah, she missed something in the back end. Set up Facebook. So I’m not not through with Facebook. Yeah, And then when we did do it, we did do a live segment. Um, it got some attention. It didn’t didn’t get as much as I would have liked, but some of that may be our own fault in, uh, doing sort of last. Well, maybe not last minute, Like the hour, but not allowing ourselves enough promotion time. That’s what I mean. And just and from the technical side. I much prefer Zoom. The damn thing is just so much easier. There aren’t a whole right. There isn’t a dozen radio buttons you have to configure correctly to get a get a live stream going. It’s all in the background. You pick a few things in settings and very few, and you could be up and running. And it has the auto invitation e mails. And I’m very impressed with Zoom. And you must be due because you said you offer it, use it and you offer it to local local groups for for nothing. Yeah, we’ve been using them. I mean, we used hang out. Um, Skype. We use lots of different things for lots of different purposes, you know? But, um, we just offer you some validation. We have the same experience with Facebook live. I think we tried it two or three times and basically every time failed. One of the time I stopped stopped in the middle of the video and we had to, like, log back in again even though it was broadcasting. So, you know, like maybe five people watched it. But riel reflection there is just like we were saying before. Really choosing the tool based on what you’re doing into the people are and sound like them is working for you. You know, for us we always feel like, you know, are we being so like dodgy by having these kind of boring community calls where we expect people to, like go to our website and say they’re coming and get a link and, you know, have it be kind of like a traditional webinar experience. But when we’ve done things like, you know, Facebook live and whatever else and they’ve been well promoted, there’s like five people there, but for our community calls where we’re doing them in our kind of traditional way of sending emails out and people go to the website and register that they want to come and log in at that very specific time. There’s, like 60 70 people on, so why I feel bad that that’s not working right and why try and go use some shiny Facebook tool that clearly doesn’t work. It’s not very sure it’s very tarnished by now. And if N. 10 which formerly had the word technology in its in its name, can’t figure this out and has a live stream stopping in the middle because of it. I think that that speaks a lot. And I also have seen I’ve been I’ve been invited recently to a lot more zoom events or just meetings just just one on one meetings or or three person meetings on Zoom. Then I have Facebook life. We just have. We have, like, a minute or so left before we have to end already. Um, what are the other recommended tools? Can you can you just take off a couple? Mmm, Other tools. You know something that we don’t know how much we’ve really talked about it, cause it’s not necessarily a social media tool, but it is something that we see the organizer’s really, really relying on. And that’s can va, you know, can yeah, can before for art. Yes, So, like a really lightweight version of photo shop. And what super helpful about it that also has social media templates. So, like these are the dimensions for a Facebook header image that you know all of those pieces. So for Organizer’s, it’s a super easy tool to use, you know, to like change up their promotional materials and make you know images to attach to their tweets to promote an event and that kind of thing. Can you Okay, I give you 30 seconds. Can you take off one more? One more. Quick. Good. Valuable resource. Mmm Mmm mmm. Oh, my gosh. Not under pressure. Uh, got it all graceful under pressure. You know, I think the other thing I was gonna add it’s not a technical tool, but is just a reminder is that you don’t need thio. Put all of the advice into practice because you have a very formalized, already launched program. It may just be that you wanna host across your city a bunch of house parties, right? All of these same kind of pieces of advice and tools and suggestions apply to that same contact, So don’t feel like the whole conversation was only for big international program. This is for anybody that’s trying to decentralize. You’re content in your work. Awesome. That’s a very, very apt ending. Thank you so much. Amy. Sample Ward Amy, Sample word dot or ge And at Amy Rs Ward. Always a pleasure. Thanks so much for sharing, Amy. Yeah, Thanks, Tony. Uh, my pleasure to so long. Next week, Jean Takagi will be with me for the hour on recruiting your board members. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Wagner. C. P A’s guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com But cook a Mountain software Denali fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits 20 dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO A creative producers. Claire Meyer off Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows social Media is by Serbs and Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this cool music is by Scott Stein with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great What you’re listening to the Talking Alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti, non-profit Radio Fridays 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? 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