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Nonprofit Radio for July 6, 2018: Peer-To-Peer Peek & Poverty Porn

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Noah Barnett & Kenny Kane: Peer-To-Peer Peek
Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference shares an overview of community-driven fundraising. How do you plan for, inspire and activate your supporters? They’re Noah Barnett from CauseVox and Kenny Kane with Testicular Cancer Foundation.

 

 

Amy Sample Ward: Poverty Porn
Amy Sample Ward returns to discuss the issues around graphic images and descriptions of poverty. How can you avoid the porn trap and white savior stereotyping, while telling compelling stories and advocating effectively? She’s our social media contributor and CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN).

 

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Duitz hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into righteous, sardonic ous if you expected me to smile when you say you missed today’s show peer-to-peer peak, our panel from the non-profit technology conference shares an overview of community driven fund-raising how do you plan for inspire and activate your supporters? They’re noah barnett from causevox and kenny kane with testicular cancer foundation and poverty porn. Amy sample ward returns to discuss the issues around graphic images and descriptions of poverty. How can you avoid the porn trap and white savior stereotyping while telling compelling stories and advocating effectively she’s, our social media contributor and ceo of the non-profit technology network, and ten tony take two a big lump of thanks responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com and by telling by telus turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream, tony dahna em a slash tony tell us, here are noah barnett and kenny. Kane from the non-profit technology conference welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference hashtag is eighteen ntc where the convention center in new orleans, louisiana. This interview, like all our ntcdinosaur views, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits i guess now are noah barnett and candy cane. Noah is head of marketing for causevox and candy cane is, you know, the testicular cancer foundation. Gentlemen, welcome. Thanks for having us, this’s. Great talent. Yeah. No it’s. Great. Not that in ten things. Not great. It’s. Exceptional. Yeah. It’s. Exceptional. Thank you. And ten. Thank you. All right. Your workshop topic is community driven. Fund-raising how do you use peer-to-peer to cultivate dahna relationships and reach new donors? That sound familiar? Yeah, absolutely. We just wrapped up our session. We’re already done. Yeah, we’re all done outside. Yes. Yeah, we’re on the downswing. So this’s the after party’s victory last put both put it well, community driven fund-raising let’s, start with you, let’s. Start close to know what’s what’s not being done quite right. That non-profits could do better. Yeah, so i think what’s interesting is we’ve gone through a few shifts in fund-raising we went through this idea of there was, like, localized fund-raising back in the day, and then we went to mass fund-raising where we basically didn’t differentiate any of our appeals, we sent all that out. And now today, like, i think there’s a fundamental shift where we’ve moved into what we call the connected economy, where the lines between digital and offline are starting to blur, and that requires a shift in how we approach fund-raising and we see kind of a playbook for the connected economy is community driven. Fund-raising okay, b i like the way you you sort of set this up for us the lines between online and the physical world and our real life are blurring indeed, yeah, okay, so we’re bringing these things together? Yes, okay. Peer-to-peer community driven. Okay, yeah, we’re calling it the connected economy because we’re just connected to anybody anywhere, at any time, through technology and our lives are more connect xero never. So why shouldn’t our causes b similarly should should we be similarly connected to our cause is exactly through our community. Exactly. Okay, kenny, anything you want to add? To the start up? Yeah, i would just say that you know what? The testicular cancer foundation were really big on storytelling and creating compelling stories that resonate with our audience? Not only, you know, as someone who’s been through it as a caregiver myself, but, you know, we try to put ourselves on the other end of the computer screen or the phone. What have you where these stories will compel people to act compel people to donate compel people that take action? Okay, let’s, stay with you. You’re right, your description says and in fact, in bold face, your description says that you will share with us exactly how to do this. How did so where where should we start? Where we’ve been, you know, everybody sees peer-to-peer well, let me take a step back, my ok to synonymous eyes peer-to-peer and community fund-raising or you guys drawing a distinction between those two? Yeah, we’re definitely drawing in this sham. Please set. Educate me. Yeah, so i think what’s interesting is community driven fund-raising is what we’re calling the umbrella that lays over all the various aspects of fund-raising where your community of supporters are actually the key. Driver of success in the campaigns here, it appears your war is a tactic inside of that larger exactly and so in community driven fund-raising there’s kind of a scale of the different types of things that qualify as that that moves from organization led meaning, like the organization is starting a campaign like e-giving tuesday campaign, a crowdfunding campaign, an annual campaign all the way down to supporter initiated, which could be i’m wanna raise money for cancer. And i’m choosing to do that for the testicular cancer foundation. But i decided, as a supporter to do that, he didn’t created environment for me to do that was organic. Okay, thank you so well. Refrain from making those two synonymous. I’m being too narrow. Choosing one method. One tactic. Okay. All right, exactly how kenny. Where where did wish we get started? We yeah, so appealing. But i don’t know where to get going. Sure. So in this rolling in my last role, which was a broader young adult cancer non-profit called stupid cancer. The same rules apply. So you have people who are affected by cancer? Cancer was huge. Yes. Did you have in north, like millions of kids and engaged around. Um, i know you’re probably right way did pretty well. Yeah, it still exists. They’re still there. Still hammered away at it. He’s going to take a little he’s, one of the co founders of super cancer. Yeah. Ok, so? So the long story short is that my father was diagnosed at age fifty with testicular cancer, which put me on a path towards can frat advocacy in my early twenties. And about two years ago, my friend matt first learn who’s, the founder of testicular cancer foundations and eighty want move from new york latto austin i said, sure. Oh, and i’ve taken over testicular cancer foundation. Okay, but getting back to you know that the same rules apply where we serve people who are in a a disadvantage spot going through cancer. You know, whether it’s a survivor, the patient, the caregiver who is helping the person caregivers often forgot. Yes, characters need to take care of them. So i was here to be coddled and cared for one hundred percent. That was made. Uh, so what we do is we see these people go along a path of being recipients of the mission. Being beneficiaries of the mission, and then they come back, you know, to three years out and, you know, they decide they want either run a marathon or they want to create a cancerversary party cancerversary is a really big milestone where on the, you know, annual date of their diagnosis or when they finish treatment which everyone they choose people will give back, and typically they get back to the non-profit that help them? You know, i think it’s probably similar in all chronic health. I know what i know. An oncologist office where they have a bell, you ring the bell, your final treatment? Yeah, i’ve seen a bell if tina got probable. Yeah. It’s a great milestone, you know, on and i had my own i’m sympathetic to caregivers. I mean, i had some sense of it before this, but during the summer this past last year, summer and in the fall so october, my mom was declining and i was my mom. My dad and i were were caregivers and just watched her, and then she actually died early october of twenty seventeen, so i it was became even more became even more aware of how. You need to take care of yourself. I know. It’s just one component of what testicular cancer is doing. Share the caregivers. You know, i often think that they have to be selfless. Andi, can’t you cannot give up your own life, teo, give another to get to another. You’ll burn out there’s a lot of self care that goes into your caregiver. So when we talk about the community aspect of community and fund-raising, you know, and i’m so let the host tigress i’m sorry. Sorry about that. Sorry about mom. Thank you. Host back-up kottler disgust like, welcome to the show cubine xero all week so community german fund-raising candy cane is goingto yeah, so the same rules apply so people go through this process, they come back and for every person who was perhaps turned away from the person going through this acute episode of, you know, not episode, but a stretch of cancer treatment. What? Not whether somebody wanted to give them food or take them to the doctor’s appointment person kind of turned away community driven fund-raising is a great way to really activate your community of people who wanted to help you and in the past, we have created opportunities for fundraisers to convert into things like travel scholarships to a patient conference. So if you’re this arrive, er, you could fund-raising within your community to raise money for travel reimbursement, so it’s not necessarily scholarship, is a little bit more democratic of a process scholarship can get a little tricky. So this skull, this reimbursement program that we did it stupid cancer actually allowed the people around the person affected to help fund their way to the conference while doing ah e-giving back to charity, getting the tax benefits all that. But it was just a really nice way of recognizing what that person had been through. It’s time for a break pursuant. Their newest paper is the digital donation revolution. You’re online donors have high expectations of you because of the swift transactions that they enjoy at amazon. Zappos, even some banks, the digital giving bar has been raised. How do you get over? Get the digital donation revolution it’s on the listener landing page, tony dot m a slash pursuant radio now back to peer-to-peer peak and then so what’s the broader lesson for our listeners in small and midsize shops. But know anybody? Yeah, i think what’s interesting is community driven fund-raising is just a reframing of how we approach raising money and building awareness for the causes that were advocating for okay, bye, basically recognizing the true value that every person in your non-profits community and as a community of supporters, whether they’re known or unknown supporters of your organization, typically we look at it from just a financial perspective. And so what community room fund-raising says, is that it’s not just about the money, that supporter khun give you its about their influence in the time they can give you a swell? And in the connected economy, the influence that a supporter has is actually more valuable than it’s ever been before, because brands are being kind of blocked out of feeds, whether it’s, facebook, it’s becoming really difficult for non-profits to reach any new people. And so by turning inward and saying, how can we actually empower our supporters by inspiring, activating and rallying them? Latto actually be the fundraisers for organization, ok, how do we get? How do we activate this within our own organization way we need to be thinking through sure, who should be. In the team discussing, i feel like we’ve spent enough time on motivation, what are some steps? How do we get started? I’m interested, but i don’t know how to organize myself. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, i think community german fund-raising is just like a lens on how you approach fund-raising and so i think it’s important to have non-profit leadership buy-in but also a fund-raising team in general and communications because communities and fund-raising is basically saying, we’re going to inspire people in our community becomes supporters rather than guilt them, then we’re going to activate those people that have true potential to become fundraisers and advocates for our cause instead of and we’re not trying to convince people to do that. We’re just activating the potential that’s already, and they’re already exists. Exactly, and they were rallying them together so fundraisers usually see raising money and reaching new donors as their responsibility. Community driven fund-raising says no it’s, actually your job to be a player coach and basically see your community is a valuable asset to helpyou fund-raising help you grow your impact, help you reach new donors, but i’m gonna ask you again. But how do we get? Started? I mean, maybe is that identifying certain people to maybe seed the program. I understand you’re not throughout the life of the pregnant thing, okay, you do something, you do something, but we need some seeds. Yeah, i think what we do is all we always advise people to understand the different stages of community fund-raising and so the first stage is inspiring. And so as you look at your current fund-raising whether it’s an event, whether it’s a male piece, how do you look at that piece and see it from a lens that you’re not trying to convince someone or guilt someone to gives your cause? We’re actually trying to inspire them and because inspiration leads to sharing and action. Okay, so so, yes, we wanted to share exactly. And then inside your current supporters, which is the second stage, which is activation, identifying key supporters that are ready to do something more. And so one of our customers world bicycle relief every time someone donates at that moment of inspiration that they’ve someone’s been inspired to support the cause, they want to provide a next step toe activate them to actually be an advocate or a fundraiser for the cause and so it’s something as simple as that by they implement this new program and they’re just asking new donors if they want to do more and presenting the opportunity. And if you apply the commuter and fund-raising methodology, you could find things across your current fund-raising program where you just shift your mindset to be how it can we make this more community focus rather than organization driven it’s sort of empowering them to indeed, i’m just adding another i mean, you’re talking about no inspiring them so that they share and then they take action. Yep, i guess i’m calling it empowering them and giving them well in power and giving them permission and maybe some tools. Two work with yeah, right, the backdrop is shaking video would be stable, it’s not going to fall, but it shook. I would have to say that, you know, historically, we’ve created fund-raising or maybe you donate twenty dollars, to yourself so that you don’t share this fundraiser with a zero balance the same rules apply to when you’re launching a campaign, you really need the buy-in have trusted ah, folks in your, you know, in your group people that, you know will create a buzz, and you certainly don’t want to launch it on deaf ears, right? Yeah, with xero balance, etcetera. You mentioned storytelling earlier, you seem to make a point of how important that is. How does that help us? I guess at the first stage that noah was describing inspiring the community, i think i think it contextualized is and provides insight into your motivation as a fundraiser. How do we start telling these stories? I want to get into the nitty gritty here, so, you know, obviously we’re up against the algorithm of any given social media platform and, you know, you could do it whether it’s, tio email or through, you know, social post, but really providing, you know, maybe a before and after photo in my case, where people are, you know, going through treatment and they come out with a smile on their face, that’s the best case scenario and just really humanizing it. You know, we talked a lot in our session today about being human throughout the fund-raising process, i think it’s really easy to get kind of technical and robotic about it and just create opportunities. For people that self serving, you know, creative latto fund-raising page and then never to be heard from again. I think. Causevox and, you know, i know. Using causevox. We aim. Tio certainly create opportunities for more than that. So you actually have a relationship with the non-profit as you’re going through the fund-raising fund-raising stages and and finishing the campaign about empowering people tell their own stories so that it doesn’t it’s not coming from the organization, but giving them the option to create a two minute self didio or log on their own power way actually saw this firsthand so and ten is a non-profit who hosts this conference, and what they did was they said, how can we raise money for scholarships so that people could come to this conference for free? Who can afford it? And one of the biggest things they did was they said, you know, we have ten board members that have influence and ability to do this and so let’s empower them to tell the community why ntcdinosaur others to them and fund-raising on our behalf, and so they were able to raise over eighteen thousand dollars, and i just saw the banner over there and there’s, you know, fifty, sixty, seventy different donors that came together to help support that campaign, and all they did was they said, hey, boardmember is ur supporters were goingto activate you to tell your story on our behalf, and they did it with did videos they wrote like testimony is different content, and so they didn’t say one thing to the other again. Theyjust activated those supporters and said, hey, can you share your story with the community and raise money on dh. They were able to do that and there’s people at this conference because of what those board members did in the stories that they told you. Excellent. So so starting capital so we’re activating people that they share a men that they take the act take the action of, of actually beginning fund-raising fund-raising on their own as we’re okay. It’s rise. Where going through this process of empowering, i would have described how you describe it. Do we need to circumscribe it a little bit boundaries around it? For listeners, that might be a little leery of maybe the the power they were transferring too much power. Yeah, we’re powering know it talked a lot about this during the session about giving, you know, the non-profit needs to give up a certain degree of control. You want to talk about that? Yeah. And i think that’s why? The third phase of commuters fund-raising is about rallying, not controlling. And so i think our default is well, how do we control this? How do we do this? How do we do that? I think in the connected economy, all the powers with the customer and it’s on the non-profit to realize that their supporters have more power than they think. And so they can try to control them. Or they can really say hey, let’s, rally this let’s, support this and help drive this forward, and so i think if you jump to taking a control position instead of how do we actually rally people in the right direction? Um, you’re going to miss huge opportunities really activate your community. You know, this reminds me of the fears that non-profits had around facebook. Oh yeah, allowing people to come it’s been going on for years? Yeah, come on their facebook page. I don’t know if we’re going to allow those car. Yeah, we should have opened commenting and posted. Yeah, well, circling back earlier we were talking about, you know, the storytelling aspect and in the cancer world and again in the probably the chronic illness world of non-profits it’s a beautiful thing when you have somebody sharing their story, whether we are sharing on the behalf, which is most of the time when you see in the comments let’s say they have a rare type of brain tumor or something like that they’ve never met or connected with another young adult with cancer, let alone somebody who has their exact same diagnosis toe watch that unfold in the comment section where now these people are going to be able to support one another, the fact that you facilitated that on the non-profit side, i’s, amazing and it’s only going to contribute to the overall strategy of activation and engagement getting people teo really buy into your non-profit buy-in to your mission. And you showed a great example that stupid cancer had a different name before it was stupid cancer, and it was, you know, this moment when they said everyone calls us stupid cancer because that’s the tagline so let’s actually switch. So he convinced the founder of the organization to switch the name to stupid cancer and make the name of the organ kapin line right and kind of say, you know, hey, like, we’re going to give power to this community that wants to be a part of this and that’s when they saw growth from two thousand two hundred fifty thousand like you saw hundreds of thousands dollars being raised because they just again said, hey, we’re not going to control this. We’re not going to, you know, they would correct people be like we’re not the stupid cancer guys where the i got every one of the other name it wasn’t i’m too young for this cancer and it’s very slavic, every word. But they gave up that control. And then they saw, like the mo mentum in the community like flourish. And i think what was interesting is that still progressed. What their mission, ford wass maybe in ways they never expected or never would have done themselves. But it’s still pushed the mission forward. And i think that’s the opportunity that non-profits small, large, medium all have today. And we see it time and time again with our customers at causevox and in parallel, you know, you don’t get to decide what school your audience is. The same sort of thing with fund-raising storytelling. All the concepts were presenting today, it’s all about the audience and did, uh, what about let’s? Talk a little more about building this into your annual fund-raising plan? Okay, okay, uh, what you’re the experts. I have a plan now, and i don’t feel like i’m sufficiently community driven or or at all community community supported what i need to rethink. Well, not just what we’ve already covered. But how do we get this in my plan? Yeah, i think what’s interesting is fundraisers have like the same playbook, and they just think if they do more of it that there’ll be more successful. Andi, i think that’s why the burnout rate for fundraisers is so significant in our industry is because they feel as though there’s one playbook to run, which is more events, more emails, more mail in wartime decides that they have exhausted that playbook organization. W ell, move onto organization, yeah, try again no more, yeah, and i think what’s also thing is it it creates this window shopping experience where you’re always looking at other non-profits and being like man, if i only had what they have, i would be able to solve and what we challenged our people that attend our session is that you really need to look at the challenges and reframed them. And so we said is instead of saying, okay, i need to do more of these things, it’s saying as part of my annual fundraising campaign, whether other things like we can do and what we provide, it was saying, how about we take a look at our community and see if there’s opportunities that we can inspire our community, activate them and rally. Them to actually help raise more money and reach new donors. Okay, that’s part of our annual can i would i would add that, you know, people listen, this interview who were saying, all right, how do i deploy this? You certainly don’t want to cannibalize anything that’s working for you, so if you raise a ton of money in queue for, you know, don’t don’t suddenly pivot and say, all right, i’m going to try to spread that out for the rest of the year, and then suddenly you’re exhausted by q for but there’s a lot of little things you can do through out the year like being more human, connecting with your audience, giving up the control is we’ve, you know, keep reiterating on just being more of a social entity, you know, that’s kind of what it comes down to is is it’s not a one way communication channel? It’s you know, the feedback goes both ways, yeah, yeah, and i think it’s, just even seeing the potential and being able to create the opportunities were actually saying we’re asking for more things than money, so a quick story i spent six years running growth at an international relief non-profit and i was overseeing growth, but that was communications and development, and so our major gift officers, obviously we’re hard core, like, go after money, cultivate new gifts year over year, and when i told them when i oversaw them was like there’s, other opportunities for these major donors to make a difference, their influence and their time are really valuable, you know, major donors know a lot of other major donors, and so we continually go back and say, the only thing we want from you is your money. We’re only going to get a portion of their value and so weak went to them and said, hey, you know, would you want to do something interesting by, like, leveraging your major gift to run a matching gift campaign? Or do you want to do a employee engagement campaign at your non-profit or do you wantto basically go into the business network that you’re a part of and share this opportunity, teo promote and inspire other people to support the cause? And what we saw is that the more that we got them to invest, their influence and their time, the more money they like. Well, how do you make those ass? You just picked off like three things? How do you make? So i think in the major gifts side, obviously, you know, it involves, like face-to-face conversations and having a conversation and providing examples of what other individuals but that’s, what people do you wantto do this campaign or, you know, activate matching gift? So what do you make those asks? You want to do your own work? Place campaign? Yeah, so i think obviously in major gifts, it’s different because you have a personalized contextual relationship with that individual. And so if you know that they’re a ceo of a company, you can have a dialogue about that and say, you know, how are you engaging your employees to give back as a community, you obviously care and see your legacy as giving gifts into our organization. How is your company doing? And so it’s having a conversation around that, i think in the broader sense where you’re asking a broader audience to do fund-raising is again making sure that you’re not asking everybody and just being like, hey, this is a new way that you can give to our information are give to our organization rather looking for segments of your audience that are ready to do something, whether that means they’re new donors, they’re volunteers, their board members, they’ve been giving monthly for ten years looking for signals that they have the potential to do something and that’s why we say that second phase is about activation because that means they already have the ability to do it. You’re just activating that, and so it can’t just be this broad sweeping thing where it’s like hey, now you can raise money on x y and z on behalf of our cause. That’s not gonna work. You just ticked off a bunch of very good identify irs indeed you are. Whom i who this might be appropriate for kenny, i want to go back to something that you said earlier. The feedback has to be both ways yet not organization too. Everybody correct this so that involved really listening on the organization’s it’s hard. Sometimes you don’t hear things. I mean, you might not. You’re not always gonna hear things you want to hear. Talk about. You know how how an organization khun sort of shift culture in terms of real listening, engagement that way i think i think you guys were just talking about some really important, which is the signals, you know, in a non-profits situation have a lot of people who will come to the table and, you know, people have ideas, people have always do this, you should do that. And, you know, one of the things that we always say is if you don’t pay attention to mission, eh, you know, mission b, c and d, whatever we’ll all fail. So listening is important, you know, for us, the example of changing the name of the organization was kind of a really big undertaking. When you look back at it, i think that you just have to have a qualifying process, you know, kind of ah, multiphase approach to letting feed back into the top and looking at the person who is suggesting it, and kind of like i said, creating a rubric to take me back in and, you know, you have a border directors for a reason. So if the board is providing you with information, obviously it’s probably a good thing that listen to but also people who were out of the core. Of the apple can sometimes ride the most meaningful feedback and again trying to figure you gotta be you gotta be ready to hear that, you know, not only not only listening to your board and also where they’re coming from, what is their motivation for providing this feedback? And if i can have two things that what we did at my non-profit is first and foremost we had to convince the organization that the donors in our supporters actually mattered so much of our head was like, we’re doing great work, and we just need people to give us money. And so what we did was every week we had an hour designated, so we got leadership buy-in where everybody in the organization wrote thank you notes to donors, and so that started to say, hey, we’re going to center on this, and then we started doing what? Like surveying or net promoter scorer type things where we asked, hey, you know, would you recommend our organisation to a friends, family or colleagues? If so, why? Why do you support our organization? And we actually started using their responses in our fund-raising copy because they were telling us why. They support our organization in a way that was specific that we could actually share with others, and they also told us ideas on how we could improve, and so i think the person foremost is you have to cultivate that idea that you’re actually gonna listen because you value that person’s opinion, and second is you just have to ask, i think we asked for money all the time, but we don’t ask for what people think or why they support our organization or how could we improve this organization? How could we reach new people? We asked that question to a small segment of donors. They gave us tons of ideas that we were able to filter throughout our organization. Good dahna we’re going to leave it there, gentlemen, thank you very much. Thank you for having us. You’re not on the you’re not watching the video. They’re both redheads on thei r noah barnett, head of marketing for causevox and can he came ceo of the testicular cancer foundation and cofounder of stupid cancer? And so i have that right way. Three a curveball and you just handled it. It’s amazing. Oh, yeah. Thank you. You get to use overviewing ingratiate something alright, way where he’s trying to get in by the back i’ve been listening sarrantonio twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ninety see this interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits thank you so much for being with us. We need to take a break, wagner cps in the last two weeks, we had segments on storytelling. You don’t want your storytelling to be so compelling that it leads to restricted gif ts or even or just lots of restricted gif ts regular has you covered their block post is avoiding restrictions from donations inspired by storytelling it’s that wagner cps dot com click resource is then blawg in a moment. It’s poverty porn right now! Time for tony’s take two i have a big lump of listener thank you it’s not segregated it’s not discriminated against by whose name listed first or second or third. And, of course, any discrimination on non-profit radio is benign non video ce discrimination anyway, but we’re not doing that this this week. I am just grateful to everyone who listens to the show supports the show exultant and that i don’t care what platform you listen. What time of day, whether your digital or analog, however, you are listening to the show or supporting the show. Thank you. You make maybe ah, you’re just you’d listen occasionally and you get my insider alerts. So you know who the guests are each week you cherry pick that’s. Fabulous. Take it as you need it. Thank you. To everyone who listens and supports non-profit radio. My video gratitude is that tony martignetti dot com now, let’s, bring in any sample ward. She is our social media contributor and ceo of and ten, the non-profit technology network. Our most recent car, third book is social change. Anytime. Everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s at amy, sample ward, dot or ge and at a m e r s ward. Welcome back, amy. Sample word. Hi. Thank you for having me back. It’s. My pleasure to have you back. This is, uh uh. This is the have you been back on the show since and ten since auntie si thie ntc. I don’t think this might be the first time i think it is. I’m pretty sure because i was leaving you alone. Because i figured, you know, there’s clean up to do and thank you’s to sand and lots of stuff. So, um, and then you had a staff planning. Then you have your staff planning time. Yeah. So to two times a year. All of the staff. Because not everyone is here in the portland office. Let me have some remote dafs. Everybody comes to portland for a week together of planning and craft and happy hour and things like that. Wonderful. Yes. I think they call it staff planning, but planning is not all that we dio excellent. Nor should it be, because you’re all together only twice a year. So you have many vulture virtual employees, so congratulations on a wonderful and fun. And i hope from your perspective, successful certainly was for mine. Ntcdinosaur provoc technology conference. Congratulations. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, i think it was a really good year. You think so? Too good. Yeah. I’m good. I’m definitely fun. I know it was fun. I know that’s. Not a question, but we’re doing it for a little more off. Just the fun purpose fundez one is up, there fundez up there, but education and technology, you know. They rank, too, but congratulations, thank you for being part of it again. Thank you. It was my pleasure. We gotta lot. We got thirty interviews for non-profit. Yeah, great, no, thank you. Okay, so we’re talking today about poverty porn. You said this had come up for you in aa, some discussions or members have been raising it. You’ve you’ve been hearing ah, little more chatter about this. Yeah, i think that organizations are organizations have been criticized for participating in poverty porn for years, but i think those have often been organizations that are really, really big operating on an international scale global scale that are maybe more vulnerable to criticism, because so so many people are saying what they’re doing, and they’re raising so much money. And, you know, with all of that kind of spotlight and revenue, i think naturally organizations, regardless of what they dio, are open to criticism of lots of different forms, right? But now i think organizations, they’re starting to see yes, well, you know, maybe criticize those organizations for years, but also maybe we’re a part of that. And what does that mean for us? You know, you don’t just have to be really, really large organization are making lots and lots of revenue off of a single appeal to have some issues with the way your year doing your work, so i think it’s organizations are starting to see that there, maybe starting to ask more questions because they’re getting, you know, the the digital teams who are managing that content are starting to feel like if something does happen, you know, they’re the ones that posted that photo or sent that tweet or whatever and really wanting to figure out how how to navigate what what’s the best way to tell this story? Yeah, andan avoid a potential backlash. Yeah, um, how would you define this? Do you? Ah, i have a way, but i’m going to hear, you know, how would you define poverty porn? I got i don’t have probably an eloquent, succinct definition, but if i was explaining poverty porn, teo an organization i think you know, without knowing whoever we’re talking to what their mission is, you know, poverty point is when you’re who’s may be taking advantage of the difference between the audience you’re calling tau action most often it’s for donations and these people that you are serving in whatever way, instead of maintaining the humanity of everyone involved in that situation and honoring all that all of those people have and really owning the story. About what you do in the power of in this example, their donation, versace trying to exacerbate the difference and the things that are, quote unquote not had about this group that you’re serving and focusing on that discrepancy, i think to me and is really what it’s about you you’re not maintaining everyone’s humanity and then highlighting the service, you provide your instead, maybe kind of further opening divide and most of the backlashes that i’ve seen or, you know, examples of this on the on the web are our images, but could be written off as easy as you can see, right majority video, but a written description could also be oh, totally exploitative or, you know, you have the language that we use to describe communities we could also highlight that that gap that you’re describing, yeah, um, no it’s ah it’s it’s very sensitive, you know, because we are trying to do very good work and we are motivated and our mission statements are or are around help of this vulnerable population, whatever it might be, whatever country it might be. I mean, it’s not a lot of the lot of the images are from abroad. I mean, i see a lot of, like, south america, central america, africa, but it could, you know, it could be right here in the u s to i mean, you could certainly go astray with images and written descriptions of conditions right here, right here in the u s certainly right, but, you know, so where were motivated by the right? Um, in the right directions, but right, but we, uh, you know, it may just be is easy, if, you know, consciousness raising, which is what our conversation hopefully is doing, and certainly a lot of the conversation, you know, like i saw things back too, like twenty, thirteen or so talking about this subject. So i think a lot of it because our motivations are, you know, i always impute good motivations toe non-profits and most people no, there are good, you know, it’s just raising country business. I mean, i think that is there are lots of tactical things that we could talk. Yeah, you’re right, it’s not just, you know, you’re right your underlying the thing that’s really going to create change is that organizations and the individuals in those organizations actually do some, really hard work two to figure out an address and accepts and try and move forward from all the biases that they’re bringing to their work the again, even if their motivation, their intent internally, is field pure and good to them, it could still be coming from a really kind of dangerous place that they are the savior of that community, right? And that in itself isn’t is a bias that’s going to mean you? You cannot create content, whether that’s, you know, photos are writing these descriptions that not coming from that place, right? So i think doing that internal work to say, gosh, how are we, you know, without explicitly like deciding to do this, how are we already coming at this from not the best a place you know, and as an organization, whatever the practices or policies that we have that can help us change that? I mean, you know, if we want to start at the big picture level, don’t think about tactics, things like do every single one of your staff regularly have opportunities to interact with the community members you serve if they don’t, they’re not in a position to speak from a place where they understand the shared humanity, they understand that everyone both inside the organization and those being served all have strengths and weaknesses and hopes and dreams and challenges and are at a place to really, i think, talk about the work anymore, productive way, you know. So even just at that level are you creating opportunities for every single one of your staff to be a part of the community? I think i’m always surprised how many organizations where they say, oh, no, if you work in the office, you don’t ever talk to the community, only our program staff do that. Why would you do that? You know, why would you create this while the silo between the staff talking about the work stopped deciding how the work is going to be done and the people participating in that work? That doesn’t make any sense to me? And those opportunities need to be more than photo opportunities do no the right there’s, lots of examples, you know, it has to be meaningful, you know, there’s one of the iconic ones, i guess infamous one’s better better than iconic. What if this one’s is, you know, eyes ellen. Too generous in nairobi with lots of kids around her and, um, there’s one of each year in wearing the red nose with liberian children around him. I know so. And what i mean, i think it’s really smart to bring that up, eh? Because now people now everybody listening to our conversation, i can think of the same kind of image, but also that i think totally the kind of thing that organizations i would think to dio with staff, right is like, okay, here, the folks that we serve here’s some of quote unquote us let’s take a photo together and inevitably, these photos like the two you just suggested when you’re years ago, like ellen and nairobi or add in liberia it’s like here is this person in the center of all these other people, and you are both figuratively and literally centering yourselves instead of centering your community. This is now not a photo about those people. This is a photo about you on dh that is kind of the epitome of what we’re talking about here, right? Is that you have come in to save them your services, you’re donations, you or whatever it is. Are literally the center instead of this community truly getting too to be in that place. So i think that’s a really great, like daily kind of check, check and balance for yourself when you’re when you’re looking at two weeks or you’re looking at the way you describe something that you’re looking at, a photo you can just say is this photo centering the people that we’re serving? Or is this photo about us? Um and there are certainly times where photo should be about you, but that doesn’t mean that the photo should be you surrounded by people you served. Maybe then it’s a photo of just your staff at, you know, the conference table looking on something or if you know what i mean it it’s going to be about you make it on ly about you and not you, in contrast to your community. Very good point about figuratively and literally making the individual the center surrounded by the community in need. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. See, that’s why that’s? Why we have you on? Because i looked at the same picture was an idea that did not occur to me. But that’s the brilliance of of aa expert. You know, lots of flecks of expert well, in this case, we have one expert and me, but other other people contributing exper, having experts contribute that’s what i mean, okay, you think about this, you know, it’s value of having multiple multiple opinions and and eyes on something very it was very well said, thank you for that. Altum i was thinking you by where i wasn’t thanking me for what i just said, that that was, obviously, you’re welcome. I always had a defective. I wouldn’t. I would probably not considered an expert perspective, but it is an opinionated one. You bring a lot of insight and used him to the show. Sabat yeah, you know, another part of the problem is that these images, their descriptions, you know, that it’s one dimensional, you know, right? If i’m here or if you swoop in with your donation from the united states that’s going to solve the problem, the child will no longer have empty hands reaching out, you know? And we just have a minute, but weaken, obviously we can keep talking beyond the break. Poverty is multidemensional mean, it includes govern the local community. The local community needs to be empowered, it includes well, and i think thinking about those layers, and we can talk more about this. Those layers of change that need to happen are are important. But also, as we continue to see, the kind of donor base of america change as boomer’s got older and millennials, you know, come into more of the majority in the world of social action that there is also your community. Your audience for this kind of message also knows there are multiple layers and maybe that immediate kind of got reaction of oh, my gosh, this crisis just happened, i want to respond, is there. But if you also, if that’s the hole that you do, you may not be really seen as a sustainable organization undressing all of those layers of change and i think that’s a huge opportunity. No, you’re seeing yourself. Yes, tio. One dimensionally. All right, let’s, take this break. Tell us i have a new tell. Oh, simoni yl for you, quote tell us has allowed my business to support my favorite charity without even feeling the pinch of writing a check. I am donating money every month that i would have spent on credit card processing anyway. Also, their customer service is far better than we’ve ever had. End quote, the businesses you refer are going to love tell us one hundred percent satisfaction among the businesses that you’re among among the business is working with them. Get started with the video at tony dahna em, eh slash tony tello’s. Now, let’s, go back to poverty porn with very insightful example. Ward um, yes, and we were just saying, yeah, it it narrows that the viewers focus to just donate and there’s a lot more that you can do. I mean, and, you know, if we’re talking about bonem poverty and hunger, i mean that that could reach to, you know, advocacy around global climate change policies, which you’re never going to get from these one dimensional ideas. No, and this i mean, i also don’t want to that folks listening now to our conversation up for this idea that every single tweet, every single picture, every single email appeal needs to talk people through. How do you know this action today is connected to this action in this all the way up that’s not what we’re trying to recommend that every single one of those has to include all of that context, but it should always include the context of what really you’re asking for if you are asking for donations for a really immediate need, the donation is still not the actual transaction of those medical supplies. Most likely right? So so at least framing it truly in what it is people are donating. Teo, was there an earthquake? And you’re well, these donations are in part to buy medical equipment and to support those medical teams administering it. Well, that’s also really great story. Who are these medical team? What kind of expertise are they bringing? You know, you don’t just have to focus on transactions because when you do, you make both the donor feel like they’re participating and transaction and the people receiving this support hyre the end of a transaction, i don’t think anyone really means for that i like, you know, back to that good intent, a key intent is not impact, but also even even in this case, i don’t think that’s really what you intend, you know it, so so raise that up and don’t focus on, oh, this is just like your example, before i really like that, you know, now these hands are full does not what happens in here, you know, and so really talkto what is happening and at a a tactical level, you know, there’s, this is opportunity for terrific content. No, you can direct people to interview, and i was talking about fresh content and depth of content there you can tell the story elsewhere, so the tweet is brief. The tweet is briefed, the facebook post, the ad, whatever is brief, but then there’s a link to you know, the back story back-up more to medical in this example who these medical teams are, you haven’t instagram account well, you could do you know instagram stories with either you know, actual quick video interviews update, facebook live there like there’s a ton of rich content you could have when you move to trying to really own what you do and what your story is. Instead of trying to focus on this idea of really, really immediate really, really fast transaction because that’s not the humanity that you want to be representing anyway. Yeah on and and wrapped wrapped up in all this eyes, you know, the idea of that, the important idea that the donations air not sufficient while while they’re necessary and we do need them, they’re not going to solve the problem alone exactly. The bigger context, you know that, and i love your idea, the hero you’re not talked about this a little oaky going well, just you, khun, you can actually then shift the spotlight to some of the work that you’re doing. Like you’re saying, you know, show videos of some of the programs and some of the care that you’re actually giving, you know you can you can shift the lens back to you as the provider, you know, when it’s all in the bigger context, it’s a part of the bigger falik well, i think there’s two things to think about here one is that we talked about before any campaign, whether it’s a fundraising campaign, our advocacy or whatever it’s never gonna have only one ass, of course, every you know, kind of sector best practices. You only have one ascot a time. But once someone takes that action, they have made the donations. They have called their senator. Whatever you need to be ready with another ask because they were just willing to do what you ask them to do. You might as well tell them that to do something else right. So instead of having, you know, here’s eight different things, please do what you want. You give people want and when they do it, you take them to the next step. Then you take them to the next step and you just keep going. And well, from a tactical perspective definitely think about it that way. And from a content perspective, justus you’re recommending i love that get people hooked in and then have them kind of watch the whole thing. Play out right. Continue to see how the work is happening on the other thing to think about, i think, is that there’s a lot to be sad out in the sector right now about how you know there are certain changes in fund-raising that people are more connected to topic than necessarily a single organization that that they’re going to donate to over a year over year, you know that they care more about the topic and whoever is maybe doing something good on that topic is who gets their money. This is a great way to keep people actually hooked to your organisation instead of floating between organizations in the same cause because you’re not just getting them to have a single transaction with you because it was immediate and compelling and kind of hyre fast way for them to feel connected, you have then continuing to connect them to you with these with content, of course, but also with those continued actions, ways where they’re getting deeper and deeper into this and feeling like, yeah, i donated but also high, you know, submitted short message for the medical l came to provide to those children and, you know, they’re starting to actually feel like they are a part of your work, which is the whole goal of this instead of feeling like, oh, i feel relieved that i sent my ten dollars, for that organization, and i don’t even know who they were because it was just the organization i saw on facebook, right? So really shifting how you frame all of this is, of course, as we’re talking about today, you know, getting you out of this trap of poverty porn, but it’s also serving you to build rial community with these supporters? Yeah, it’s the how many guests we’ve had on urging the relation a ll over the transactional that’s you you put a lot of depth into it, but you and i have talked about it and other guests as well. That’s the way to stand out, you know, as you said, that’s, the way to bring people to your cause and keep them there while the ah a lot of a lot of activists and donors are you’re saying maur, mission oriented versus organization oriented. But you know, if you can draw them into your work, they’re right they will stay with you. It’s the relation act it’s the relationship of course. All right, you know, another another facet of this is that all you know, these regions are not monolithic. You know, all of central america, south america and africa are not poor on dh and needy and destitute, you know, there are thriving cities, there’s, beautiful, rich history, culture toe all of these, you know, to all the african nations and all these other parts i’m talking parts of the world i’m talking about. So, you know, e i think you want some balance there too, tuley and i think there’s argument to be made that there are can definitions that we had organizations we as americans, we as white folks can put onto what is ah, community experiencing property or what is a geographic area, that it lacks access to resources that are not going to be a shared definition by the people living in those communities. And i think that really important thing to remember as organizations trying to highlight the service you’re providing or the way that you’re serving that community, is that your definition of of their needs and comparatively to you you know how how quote unquote in poverty they are is going to feel different in their own lived experience, so finding ways where they can authentically talk about again, back to what was said at the beginning, you know, their hopes and dreams, their challenges, their life and the way that they benefit or appreciate the services is going to feel far truer and position your organization into their community than it is for you to say from the outside, you know, look at this community, we’ve kind of defined as needing this and here’s how we’re going to fix, you know, back to that idea that are you centering you and and the organization are you really centering this community? How how are you doing that? Recognizing that part of deciding you know that a certain community is or is not in need is part of that? We’re gonna leave it there. Any simple word? Excellent. Thank you so much for talking about the tony. I know it’s a a scary topic for some, but i think it was a good conversation. I absolutely agree, and we’re not scared to be a little provocative. No, not at all. Thank you. She’s. Amy sample ward at amy, sample ward, dot or ge? And at amy, r s ward, next week, two more from the non-profit technology conference. See sweet cross talk and capacity call out if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profit ofthis, data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps, guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com and by telus, credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us. Ah, creative producers claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by susan chavez. On our music is by scott stein with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. E-giving cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative now, are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in sometime, potentially, ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. Live life your way on talk radio dot n y c geever. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Are you into comics, movies and pop culture at large? What about music and tv? Then you’re in for a treat. 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Nonprofit Radio for June 15, 2018: Avoid Website Ageism & Grants For Newbies

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Jessica Meister, Matt Dragon & Justin Greeves: Avoid Website Ageism
How do you design your site to meet the needs of those 65 and over? What about testing with seniors, and accessibility requirements for federally-funded nonprofits? Our panel answers it all. They’re Jessica Meister with Oral Health America; Matt Dragon from Charity Navigator; and Justin Greeves at Porter Novelli. (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 

 

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Janice Chan & Danielle Faulkner: Grants For Newbies
Janice Chan and Danielle Faulkner cover the basics of researching and submitting grants. They reveal free resources to find out what’s available, share tips on tracking deadlines, help you prepare for online submissions, and more. Janice is with Johns Hopkins Institutions and Danielle is from Baltimore Community Foundation. (Also recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into foley dupe aqua if you questioned why you shouldn’t miss today’s show, avoid website ageism how do you design your site to meet the needs of those sixty five and over? What about testing with seniors and accessibility requirements for federally funded non-profits our panel answers at all. They’re jessica meister with orel health america, matt dragon from charity navigator and justin grieves at porter novelli that was recorded at the non-profit technology conference also grants for newbies. Janice chan and daniel faulkner covered the basics of researching and submitting grants they reveal free resource is to find out what’s available. Share tips on tracking deadlines help you prepare for online submissions and mohr. Janice is with johns hopkins institutions, and danielle is from baltimore community foundation that’s also recorded at the non-profit technology conference. I’m tony steak, too thank you. Responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio and by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers witness cps. Dot com and by tello’s turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna may slash tony tello’s here is a void website ageism welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference. We’re coming to you from new orleans at the convention center all our ntcdinosaur views are sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits this conversation is with jessica meister, matt dragon and justin grieves. Jessica is the web user experience specialist at orel help america. Matt is director of engineering at charity navigator and justin greaves is senior vice president of research. Porter novelli jessica justin welcome, thank you for having welcome to non-profit radio your workshop topic is i’m not the dinosaur. You’re the dinosaur. How your website should keep pace with america’s aging population okay, let’s, start down the end there. Justin, who thinks i look like john mcenroe? He he spilled performance that happen. But i remind you of john macro at least at least happy. Yeah, right now. Not the tennis racket slamming john macaron? Not yet. I haven’t gotten there yet. Yeah, yeah. Don’t give me cause, okay? What what’s the issue here, justin way, talking about websites that are built specifically for senior population, like sixty five it over or accessibility of all websites for the for the elder population? Yeah, yeah, i think i think one or the other, but we’re taking a step back from that and looking at everybody and really looking good. How in my part of the presentation, how people are accessing information generally in society and looking at that websites are a part of that news is a part of that social media is a part of that radio shows are a part of that, right? So seeing how those different audiences by age or by other characteristics are doing things online, are getting information. So we really took a broad view about toe understand that, and there are a couple of interesting trends that we found in our research. Porter novelli we do an ongoing program called styles, which is abroad be of americans lifestyle okay, we’ll get into the research. Remind me if i don’t get teo. I don’t know about research company. Okay, sametz what what’s your sense of this. How do you want to open up the topic sure. So charity navigator biggest user percentages is sixty five and over. And if you lump in fifty five and over it’s really a majority nineties, we in ninety percent, ninety percent, probably around eighty percent. Ok, seventy five percent. So we we have a lot of those users. As i covered in the presentation. Over seventy five percent of our donors to us are seventy five are fifty five and over. So that that’s something that we’re constantly considering in our website design communicating with our users and our donors. Okay, jessica, you’re our user experience specialist. And what what? How do you want to open this topic for the elder population? Eso my belief is that technology should be for everybody, and it shouldn’t be limited to just young people, um and that’s on all of us to create technology and websites and designs that air usable by every single person. I think. It’s a negative stereotype that older adults seniors above the age of sixty five don’t use technology and it’s absolutely not true. Both justin and i have found plenty of research. That is completely metoo contrary. Okay, thank you for that. All right, not. Now that i’m sixty five, i’m approaching now, but, uh, i’m not even in the face, you know? I am in the fifty five over. Yeah, i am in that one, okay, i did remember what i want to talk to you about the research, so i want i do want to start with in terms of how thie older population is using data differently using is using technology differently. Yeah, please, just beyond, i think justcause point it’s ah it’s a myth and it’s a long held belief that older people are behind in technology and don’t use things but what we found in our styles, research that i mentioned before is half of people in the silent generation that’s, age seventy two and above have a smartphone mobile device that they’re using and half half seventy two and over half of our subs on dh in boomers, which you’re you’re, you’re a boom here, boomer young, i’m young, you’re young boomer. Yeah, almost genetics are seventy five percent of boomers have smartphones and that’s the primary way that they’re accessing all sorts of things. News your radio show information about websites e-giving donations online so you got to think about the population, which the vast majority of givers of high givers are also older people. You’re not going to be as effective if you’re just still mailing them stuff, right? They need thio interact and access just the way we all do, and they want to do it on the whole device. Mostly. Okay, okay, you want to add more to the research summary? That’s ah, pretty fair summary. So justin’s work has been primarily in quantitative data and looking at it from, like a sky level view. Getting these good statistics on what usage rate looks like. My work has been more qualitative when you actually sit down and interact with have a senior interact with either a website or a tool or technology, you asked them to use it, completing a particular task, and, yeah, the vast majority of them are wanting to do it on mobile as well. And especially from a non-profit perspective, it’s important to keep in mind that sometimes the on ly access someone may have to the internet is, in fact, on a mobile device. They may not have the means or access to like a desktop computer, and so that was something that we found in our research when we redesign tooth wisdom dot org’s, which is a website designed to provide education and accessed older adults to dental clinics, affordable ones in their area. When we did this study, we found that they really wanted to be able to search and that they may be doing this from a mobile device. Yeah, okay, okay, and in the middle, matt at a charity navigator, what was your part in the presentation so way have this predominantly older user base, but we’re also seeing a lot of growth in the twenty five to thirty, twenty four to thirty five year old user community that we’re seeing, so we’re struggling, too make angels to the site that that appeal to a younger generation, but not turn off or lose our older users in the process. So we have a lot of a lot of sort of feedback and help type questions that we get from older users where they just aren’t used to interacting with with websites like younger generations are on dso we’re always trying to sort of factor that in as we make changes to the site or or consider how we present information on the site. It’s. Time for a break pursuant. Their new paper is the digital donation revolution. I always love all the pursuant free resource is very generous. How do you keep up in our one click to buy amazon world? Can you use more revenue? The paper has five proven to work online. Fund-raising tactics that will save you money. It’s on the listener landing page. Of course. Tony dahna slash pursuing radio now back to avoid website ageism. There’s another layer to this two, which is the federally funded organizations. Yes, by law that required, you have to have accessible, abide by and it’s called section five o eight and it was voted on and passed through congress last year, january twenty seventeen and it just went into effect january eighteen o and this is any organization that receives any federal funding whatsoever, regardless of if it’s one hundred percent or if it’s two percent they receive any federal dollars whatsoever, they’re obliged to adhere to accessibility guidelines there, primarily based on the w keg, which is the world wide web consortiums, accessibility, content and six ability guidelines. Okay, thank you for question that. Because we have george in jail on tony? Yes, i apologize. You just walk in front of the prison? No. Yes, i wanted teo put it out there because it’s it’s an important resource. So it’s w c a g and it’s finding online. You see a g? Yes. Okay. Okay. So, so any any federal money, you’re getting grants for service or whatever, but anything at all and the critically this law applies to not just your public facing website, but anything that you use internally as well. So even if it’s just in internal that on ly the other staff members see all the only your millennial staff is using correct yes, it’s pretty burdens. Yeah, so it’s it’s pretty it’s pretty massive. But this is especially critical to seniors and older adults because forty percent of people above the age of sixty five have some sort of disability compared to twenty percent of the general population. And so, if you’re did, if you’re designing for seniors, you’re designing with accessibility in mind. Okay, dahna let’s. See where should we go testing you? So you do the individual testing. So your roll. Justin is more than quantitative research. About bigger, bigger picture recent yeah, my role in the presentation was sort of the higher level trends and another another thing that we all talked about in all near and dear buses, the impact of social media on things you know, we hear a lot about facebook and twitter and linked in and other things nowadays. And so again, there’s another myth that, well, seniors aren’t on technology and they’re definitely not on social media, which is absolutely false also good. The majority of seniors are on some form of social media, most likely facebook, and so if you think about you need to think about how to meet them where they are just convention on our in our engagement earlier today and that’s going to be mostly on facebook, you know, if you’re trying to get people and get them to interact, they’re going to be in a special channel, they’re going to be in facebook, they’re probably not going to be on twitter very often. There’s another myth twitter’s everywhere only thirteen percent of americans used twitter on a regular basis and of course, we all know one of them right here two hundred, chief, so thirteen percent use it on a regular basis thirteen percent of americans use twitter, so? So if you have an older population, you probably shouldn’t spend too much time on your twitter strategy, which is something we worry about, p r all the time you should think about facebook and think about other channels and think about websites and e mail because that’s, where you’re going to find i like coming back to you not because you thought i looked like john mackerel, but, you know, so it provides the broader context. Yeah, i was okay. And then jessica, you’ve done the individual you use your studies? Yes, sitting with seniors watching them way have devices that watch their eyes on a cz they navigate website. No screen reading studies are available from larger group screen reading, so that technology exists you, khun tracking studies tracking studies labbate which yeah, and then those can develop heat maps that will indicate where someone looks on a site but generally speaking, in terms of how seniors look at a website, it’s not very different from how most of us do most of us like to scan websites, we don’t like to read them. The average amount of time you spend on a website is between around single web pages between thirty seconds and sixty seconds. There’s not a whole lot of time, people, people just try to get what they can and they leave on dh that’s true for seniors as well. They’re there for a purpose way know that they don’t come in through the home page. They came from somewhere else they were looking at or looking for something specific, they link to you, they found it, they leave, yes, so he might try to engage them somehow that gets into, you know, marketing and the web site design, but but leave that aside buy-in they came for something specific, and they’re leaving after they get it correct and it’s interesting, because as webb has evolved over time, the home page has become less and less important because, as you said, they’re coming in from google and they’re landing on the pages that they’re looking for. And so for example, on the homepage is right overrated, for example, on our website, tooth wisdom dot or only eleven percent of our users come in through the home page and so it’s interesting. When you’re doing time evaluation oh, how much time should we think about the home page? Maybe eleven percent of your time, matt, i’m guessing. Does that vary for you? Is home page more important for charity? Navigator it’s actually less so so ten percent of our told my intuition eyes a data driven discussion. Ten percent of our total web page views heir of the home page so not not even landing on it. Just visiting it any point during your visit? Ok? Eso there’s there’s ah it’s a similar thing and i think, really the we mentioned five oh, wait like five oh, wait doesn’t talk doesn’t speak it all to how people move through your sight how they locate information on your site it’s about the visibility, the readability, the color contrast so it’s it’s still very important to talk to your users do the kind of studies that jessica did because you’re not going to know you can be one hundred percent five oh, wait compliant and have xero users able tto do what they’re trying to do when they come to your site. That’s absolutely true there’s a difference between accessibility, compliance and accessibility and practice, you have a loss that’s a minimum standard, right? But this is not going as far as you’re describing now. So, matt, you you’re straddling an interesting position because you said, uh, the elder population is most of your users, but you’re the younger population is growing, so you’re constantly straddling. How do you how do you rationalize that? So part of it is we we addressed it to our channels, so so our website, our facebook tend to have an old, older audience. Our twitter followers, as justin noted, tend to be younger, so we can we can sort of target content that way. Another big part of what we have to look at is just we can’t way sort of can never make a really drastic change to something on our website, because that will throw our senior audience even though a younger audiences is almost surprised when you go when i go to a website and nothing’s changed since the last time i’m there that’s sort of the anomaly, but with supporting older users, we’ve made what we thought were very simple changes to our search results page, and it throws people off and they don’t. Understand that it’s not the final destination, it’s just you have to click through to get to the data, and people are people ask us, you know, where did all the data go? Why did you take away all this information when it’s just they’re looking at a searchers all not at the page that used to be looking at so we go, let me go to justin. This is this has implications around the it’s, the way seniors air using the technology. So you’ve demystified ho are not demystified debunk these myths that, as jessica did to seniors or not using technology, they’re not engaged with it, but how they’re using it and their understanding of it is different. I mean, it’s not as sophisticated as someone who grew up with it. Yeah, it has more exposure. Yeah, i think it’s probably not a sophisticated, but they bring their kind of wisdom and life experience to it. So another thing is, what do you really believe when when you see things on the internet? We did this siri’s that things based on the whole fake news and other stuff to look at, how many people actually get news from facebook believe the news and what do they do have someone post something that they don’t like? So what we found is only about one in ten people now believe what they see in social media is news good. Only about a third of those people click through to actually look at the original content about, like, three percent it’s a very small number on then. But the other interesting thing is seniors less likely to have this one bad behavior, which is diferente de follow people who have a different opinion than them? The younger generations are much more likely tio unfriend or unfollowed someone let’s say, tony of a different opinion than idea about politics or some social thing. Seniors are going to ignore it. Younger people are going basically opt out of you and what that means and you feeling about the implication is we all are just star in our own personal echo chamber, right? What we hear, what we want to hear, we’re only talking people have the same opinion and i think that’s a very dangerous point, you know, america’s based on diversity in the melting pot, and if you’re not hearing people from other cultures or believes our angles, whether you think they’re right or not, you should at least listen. Seniors do that younger people do not very interesting. Okay, so dahna matt, i’m interested in what was the little change you made to the search page, that through seniors that you thought was not a big deal, so we actually we service mohr information onto the search result and gave you mohr functionality via the searchers, always doing things like the result s o that the fact that all that functionality and information was showing up on the search page, people didn’t didn’t understand anymore that they had to click in to a charity’s page to see that high that maurin dept is more in depth. They thought they thought you had a cat in a diddle, the right all the all the information down to just what they’re seeing on this screen, right? The one after the after i click search. Exactly, okay, kapin ate it. Is that the right use of the word? Shorten? Keep it simple, alright, reduced, all right, got it. Some best practices. You ah, from your seminar from the workshop description, you promised them best practices for helping the over sixty five, population sharing you s oh, they’re posted on the handshake from our session, which is eighteen ntcdinosaur okay, very good. So we have them posted there, and you should also be ableto flip through materials and find access to those slides. So some of the overarching principles the first one, which is very important is be big, be bold and be obvious. And so this has to do with create things in large text. High contrast, is it good enough? Text tohave a texting, larger obstruction lodging button it’s not that it’s a it’s a good thing to add it’s a nice feature, but you also have to expect quite a lot of people won’t see that available on dh so fun side, but if you make the guy larger, big that’s not still not adequate, so that goes that’s. A lot of people just will ignore that part of the screen, usually because they don’t visually identify it as the thing they’re looking for, like you said, but making text minimum of a year, she educates. The host brings me along. I’m very gracious. I’m grateful for that. Okay? Minimum size, i think, is recommended at seventeen point font for website. Okay, what’s the way know what the average is? We know what typical website is. A lot of people have it smaller than that because standard booker print size is twelve point and so a lot of people rely on that print standard over fifty percent larger yeah, roughly almost fifty percent larger than the standard book. Okay, okay, big, bold and what was it obvious? And so matt and i talked about this senior sometimes having a difficult knowing which items air interact oppcoll and so we recommend, for example, of recognizing the highlight like they don’t know that, like a button is a button on dh, so you might need literal signifiers to make it look like it’s a three dimensional button with a shadow that you would push in three in real life that’s a literal signifier, but it gives a visual indication that something’s interactive ble and i think literal signifier that central ok previous conversation today i was talking with the woman and sheila warren about bitcoin blockchain that you’re talking about the wallet wallet in blockchain. Is that is that what it was? What was the literal signals? That a literal signifier? I would say so i would say so when we refer to something that’s traditional for something that’s new because blockchain is just yes, people just discovering what it even means or how people think of a floppy disk. Us the same little signified, right? Right. A literal signifier. Yeah. Okay, little signal. I always wondered what those were, but when you see a little bank for for your for your savings or something, okay, little signifier, thank you for that. Your host aggression, right? That phrase down okay. And having nothing to do with this conversation, but or very little to do with it. Okay, i used know that matt had talked about how some of the users on their site had also struggled with things that weren’t necessarily obviously buttons. But we’re click. Okay. You got some. You got some best practices for dealing with the sixty five over. Yes. So? So one of the things is is just to make a literal call out. So one of the things we did teo help with. Our search results problem was making sure that there was there was words that said mohr details or more info, something that even though it’s a link and it’s blue and it looks just like every other charity name link that’s in the search results, the fact that it was more of a call to action and clearly something that if you’re saying, oh, i wonder where the details went, you could click on that thing, and it would take you to the following paige so just things that that sort of are very clear next steps or calls to action. The other thing that we’ve done is pages that might be a dead end, like if you click into a history of donation and you’re looking at an individual donation you made and you want to get back to the list for a lot of younger users don’t know they have to hit the back button, but we have we’ll actually put a button that says, you know, return to my donations so that it’s very clear that there’s always a way out from from whatever page you’re on and sort of similar, just sort of having bread crumbs. Sort of at the top of a page that would list sort of the hierarchy within the sight of the page that you’re currently at. So any anything that that sort of keeps people when, when they might think, oh, now i’m stuck. I don’t know where to go next e-giving them sort of an escape valve or an obvious thing to click on has the next step what are the breadcrumbs? What breadcrumbs on pages so breadcrumbs would be like if if you’re if you’re at the top of the charity navigator page and you click into a category and then it cause it will show you the category you clicked on as we list the causes within that cattle. Are you okay? Trail that contrary? Yeah, apple does that. I think they pioneered a lot of websites. Will have that sort of at the top. You are in the nest, right? Baizman nesting. Okay. Okay, justine, i don’t want to leave you out of the best practices conversation, but you know that you’re part of the bone, and i cracked. I definitely have about okay. And all of us share this theory, which is do more research. I mean, i think that the number one stumbling block block that people have and mac gave great examples and just cut you have to know your audience and do research to understand how they’re using your product or your website or whatever and sit down talk of them. It doesn’t have to be expensive, it doesn’t have to be a long process that could be a small focus group of granny’s at home or it could be your friends and family, but do research and have a discipline way. One cautionary note that i’ll put out. I don’t want to get in the acronym jail, but be calm argast drug in jail don’t ruin my little signals are like in jail, the literacy that are the literary sent a liberation, but the idea is don’t collect more data than you need because the gdpr is coming general data protection requirements from europe and so everyone in the united states, if they deal with european counterparts, is going to be required. Tio give people who are citizens of europe and the uk, the ability tio, act like they never visited your sight. Are they you know they could be for gotten and it’s very hard, the finds are extremely expensive. They’re meant to be business shutting fines and so don’t collect the any personally identifiable information you don’t absolutely need and have a way for people opt out of that, let them know what you have and have a way to get rid of it because that’s the requirement and starts at the end of may know yeah, i’ve been doing a lot of reading about that. We covered it on non-profit radio a couple months ago. Yeah, yeah it’s a tough one. But again, you know, the my final answer is you do research, it could be informal can be formal, but gets a users and have a feedback channel because we live in a dynamic world and people expect change. Okay, although matt, when people see change, they don’t always know how to react to it. And sometimes they get panicky. Yeah, and that’s the kind of thing that having a group to test that with, you know i can help you sort of a void that that stumbling block so so even even just being ableto put it in front of a small group of people who are in a representative portion of your audience, you know, putting putting in front of my developers is not a way to know if if are our older audiences going tto find a problem, you have some seniors come out to new jersey, you’re you’re in a small town into joe’s we are alleged wort know what is not gonna rock gonna rock. So so we want we it’s something we want to do more of way. Haven’t we haven’t done it? Jessica’s been ableto really incorporated into her process much more than we have. Okay, we do it all the time. And the thing we always say is you get out of your own conference room. Talk to real people, i think that’s very good advice for a lot of it. Also rates back to what you were talking about. You know, night narrowing your circle of of influence that you allow in, you know, but let’s, get out a little that’s. Good for life. Okay? We have to have, like, a minute or so left. Who wants to wants to put the finishing touches on this subject? A little motivation. Jessica, i’m gonna give it to me, okay? Because i started down that end with with justin, so let’s go. All right, so i think, oh, my gosh, no, i’m on the way they were talking to a friend, you know? We said, you know what i’ve been doing this work? Why is this so important? I think it’s very important, especially in the non-profit community that we don’t just talk the talk, but we walk the walk, and so if we say we’re trying to serve a specific population, it’s very important that we do the work to actually do that. And i believe that building tools and resources and technology for seniors is a way that we can live our mission and serve that population. That’s it rubber. Okay, she’s, jessica meister webb and you ex specialists at oral health america. Well, she’s not also mad dragon, but seated next to her is matt dragon and he’s, a director of engineering at charity navigator, and justin greaves, senior vice president of research porter novelli, justin sorry, jessica and justin. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. This interview has been sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits and this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc and i thank you for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagener, cpas they go beyond the numbers. They’re covering your essentials nine, ninety and audit before they go beyond the numbers. So first is the essentials. Then they go beyond the numbers. Check the matter whether cps dot com start your due diligence there. Then use the contact page or better go in real life. Pick up the phone and talk to you. Eat hooch doom the partner there. Wetness cpas dot com now time for tony’s take two. Thank you. However you’re listening live podcast am fm affiliate if you’re getting my insider alerts each week thank you. I am very glad i’m very grateful that you are with us. Thank you very much. Now let’s, go to grants for newbies. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference coming to you from the convention center new orleans. This interview, like all our ntcdinosaur views, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits i guess now are janice chan she’s, a tech training specialist. For development and alumni relations. Maybe the tech training special, the one of the only are you the guy? I am a team of one seam of one. She is the tech training specialist in development and alumni relations for johns hopkins institutions, and daniel faulkner is donor engagement coordinator for baltimore community foundation. Ladies welcome. Thank you for having a son like you. Your topic is grant proposals for newbies, bootstrapping research and preparations so that’s perfect, actually, for our audience of twelve thousand small and midsize non-profits some of whom may not be doing grants don’t don’t have to get started on grant’s research. You don’t know how to start putting. Well, there’s a paper depends hyre anymore, but doing out online forms, you know, and that probably should be in the fund-raising mix. You think, daniel, for most be a consideration. Definitely it’s, it’s, it’s. A robust process. But once you get it, handle it it’s really easy to follow year after year. So if you could work it into your schedule it’s definitely worth going active. Okay. Okay, janice, anything you want to add to the motivation step i think you get it gets easier. The first one is always tough to figure out, and it gets easier as time goes on, so don’t get discouraged by exactly first one. Exactly number five will be easier than number one. Exactly. Okay, okay, let’s, talk about some of the research, you know. How do you how do you, uh, find out about grants that might be appropriate for u s o for me, i look for free and easy sources. We love free on free it’s always great. I will plug one, which is foundation center. They have a great website to find funding opportunities they have. If you in baltimore, if you go to a public library, you can actually access their account free. They’re free full membership, most libraries or institutions, educational institutions have a membership through them. So that’s a great resource. If you’re looking for nine nineties, you want information about funders? I use them a lot. Their office in d c is great because they’re really if you call, they’re willing to help you and they’re all volunteered face or they have classes webinars that are free. So i use that a lot in my day today foundation research you khun i’m sorry foundation sent to research. You could do any any of their affiliated library in that country. Exactly. There are many there that you don’t have to be a subscriber. You there so we can be who you want to do for your desktop. You won’t get as many features, but the features that are offered through their free on account justice. Good there are okay. The other other janice free resource is that we could take advantage of besides foundations dahna sure grantspace go for any federal funding and that’s that’s up your alley and you’re usually a lot of states will have a local council of grantmaker zor of foundations, community foundations, humor sort of have a consortium and you can sort of go to one place and get some of them, even have a common common form. Okay, okay. Others other we love free resource is anything besides, maybe your community group. I know. In new york, there’s new york regional duitz association of grantmaker is nigh rag. So there’s that goes well, the foundation center. Any others were involved when we have a bag, which is another resource, like a bag thing. Well, i would say community foundations are a great way. Usually most their websites give a general opportunity list of what’s going on for their fund holders. So in baltimore, we have over eight hundred funds that come through our foundation. So that’s a great source. If you know your community foundation, get in contact with them to see what’s available and how they can help. Okay? Okay, anymore i’ll keep asking. You say there are no more also like your state or local organization of a non-profit associations. So, maryland, the suspicion non-profit organizations has some of those. Resource is that you can, you know, make an appointment schedule to use as well. Ok, for research there, there for research research. Resource is also okay. Okay. Anything else? I think that covers everything the free and easy. The user friendly ones that are a great start there won’t overwhelm people. Those are really good sources to use when you’re first starting out. Okay. These are also for not only finding well grants, doing your own research around foundations that may fundez your fundez or work. These are all resource. Is that exactly that? Well, okay. Okay. What’s, the next step. So now we now we know where we should be applying. We’re taking it step by step. Danielle, where should we where do we go next? Well, for me, after i’ve done all the research, i have a proponent of writing one grant and then from there outsourcing it and using it to write many multi purpose. Exactly. I call it my my thanksgiving dinner of granting if you go one grantspace irv’s, everyone. So that’s, where most of my work comes in, i would say gathering information that pertinent to your organizations, so that might be your mission statement all your financial papers on the irs, things working with your program team to make sure you have the right lingo in a language down to explain the project that you’re want funding for take some real time to gather that all in one location. So when you sit down and write, you don’t have to go and have to go back and forth. I’m a really big component of doing all the hard work first, so then you can focus on the writing if you that’s not your strong point there’s also a point that’s tangential to that which is make sure you follow all the instructions exactly. Hide everything just for doesn’t really matter how burdensome you think it is. Yes. And they say twelve twelve point fonts on double do it, it’s not a suggestion. Find tabs? Yeah, ever. What was jonas finder town that they need to be labeled? Just do it. Okay, it’s like, in that sense, it drives me of dealing with government bureaucracy. I’m just they may ask things that don’t make sense to you, but and it may not even make sense to the people who are asking for it. It may have been twenty years ago, but just do it okay, just comply. You know you’re asking for their their support. You gotta comply, right? And i’d like to add a point to that to write figuring out like one of things we talked about our session was having a go or no go less right there’s things that yeah, there’s some hoops that you’re going to jump through it’s going to be worth it. But you also wanna they’re going to be some things that maybe is a stretch too far for organizations. Kind of taking you off mission. You’re kind of drifting. From things. So you want to make sure that that’s really feasible, invisible as well? Okay, that’s a very good point, especially in terms of mission, you know, it’s only it’s only sort of related to what you do, you know, they’re going to read through that, right? And you’re probably gonna be unsuccessful in the grant anyway, you know. So why try toe conform your work, tio what they’re looking for? Better to stick with exactly what you do, find funders for that makes it ok. But look at the different angles of what it is that you do that might be appealing to that funder, but it’s, so good to be at the end of day. What you’re actually trying to find accomplice, you gotta be on the same page, okay? Oppcoll you talk about i’m just drawing from what was in your session description? Oh, interpreting instructions is that is that basically what we’re talking about? Or is there more spending one? Yeah, just read them. I would have after you’ve written the actual brand and this is way after have someone not associated with the organization or maybe a co worker who’s, not in the process. Read the instructions of unread your grants so they can look at it from a different eye. Make sure you hit all the targets because if you’re in it and your writing it, you might think you answered that question correctly, but in reality he didn’t, and someone outside of your space well under sand so i would definitely, if you have the time, try to get someone outside of your world to read it and the instructions fired-up anything that janice you want to add, i think also, i don’t like to start with what’s needed less when i go through the instructions like, okay, let’s, before we can gather everything’s, make that checklist that i don’t lose something or i can get somebody else rolling on whatever i need, i need their help with. Okay. Last november, i hosted a panel at the foundation center. I’ve done a fair amount of speaking there. It was not a great writer or professional, but it was a panel of grayce grant oars, funders and one non-profit and the subject matter was building a relationship with the institution, even including at the applications, you know, some some explicitly say no calls. So oppcoll but others are more open to communication or maybe it’s no calls and, you know, we take emails, but talk a little about that early stage where you’re still rating, having getting questions answered, you know, not being afraid, anybody? Well, i’ve never come across a call for a proposal that didn’t have instructions on if you have questions during the process, they always air usually upfront about that which they prefer follow that to a t and that that’s what i told my freelance clients the same way, you know, if you do have a question, let me go through that process for you, but don’t like magically run into that person for that thunder that’s not really appropriate, but follow their rules just like the instructions for the grant follow the rules. What do you mean that people see through that stuff? Yeah, you know, it becomes law fake and phony, and you don’t want that, i don’t know and if the end, if they don’t write, i mean funders know they’ve your non-profit what you’re looking for us funding, right? Like that’s already in the back, right? You want to you want to find out? What? What it is that that fundez hoping to achieve through their grantmaking so that you can line that up. But i think also, if they don’t have explosives constructions about, don’t call, don’t e mail anything like that, right? You know, it doesn’t mean i don’t feel like you can’t. You’re like, you know what? Like our boardmember knows somebody on their board, let’s, just see if that would be okay to have a meeting. Tto, learn more and meet with their program officer to see you. Is this a good fit? Doesn’t line up or, you know, it should be it go looking elsewhere. Good. How about tracking deadline? Make sure we go to a lot of details were like twenty five minutes, yeah, don’t hold back, don’t hold out on non-profit video sures deadline, so deadlines ah, and i’m one of those people would put, like, you know, two weeks ahead of the actual deadline on my calendar, but i think that there are a lot more, you know, when i did a lot of my grantwriting is before a lot of project management skills were easier to use and they are, so i just put a lot of things in a spreadsheet on dh kind of, like project manage things that way think they’re a lot more project management tools now, right where you can put in due date it’s gonna trigger reminder and send you an email or, you know, when you log into that system, et cetera, but i think that that is really key, because if you you know, if you don’t similar, like if you’re applying for a job, you don’t follow the instructions, you don’t meet their time frames, you don’t show that you’re respectful of their time, they’re going like, why am i exactly? We have a deadline it’s an easy right off that in the next way didn’t say postmark said, bye you know you’re gonna be disqualified our land and also building and buffer times using technology. First of all, that’s a technology help brovey times yeah, you’re not gonna be able to devote a solid week to this, so don’t leave five business days before the deadline to get started on that right? Be realistic about what you can do in the time for him, a lot of opportunities may pop up it’s a rare with grants cause cycles are pretty much the same, but be realistic if you are a team of one r office that small, i don’t think you can pull off the whole grant and a time frame of a month that’s a lot of work to do for one person if you’re a small office buy-in some opportunities you have to wait for just go after next year, but yeah, be realistic about those deadlines and don’t think you could just write a grant overnight. I thought clients asked me that, and i always turned them down right away. No, you won’t get my best work at that, so yeah. Just be realistic about what you can produce. What your staff can take on that’s also related to what we were just talking about it, asking questions of the the foundation of the thunder. You know, if the question is coming the day before the due date yeah, that looks back that you know, that even you can’t mask it. They know they’re down you again. You’re gonna be gonna be found out. So all right, plan ahead. Leave yourself enough time. So even a month is really not enough time for a small shop. I like to do at least four to six months and that’s if everything is weight, should be. But there are those rare occasions where something pops up. You can’t miss out, you need it. That’s where i would say if you’ve already written that one grant, you’re prepared already so you can dust it off for what you need from it. And you can apply to that one that pops up within a month. Otherwise, i probably wouldn’t go under a month just because of what you have to produce. If it’s a brand new grant and if they’re asking for a lot. Of extra things that you don’t have time to produce in a you know, good manner, i think the weather you’re starting from scratch like your writing a grand for a new program that you haven’t had to write one for me for right? Like a lot of stuff you can recycle, but some things you can’t or like, they’re taking a very different tack on whatever it is you’re doing. I think the other thing is that the attachments, right? If they want their like budget for mated, a format, a specific way, you you know, your finance person doesn’t have that time, right? So i think just being cognizant of that and being cognizant, what you’re asking of your coworkers will also make the process smoother because you’re always like, i always worked closely with the finance people with our program south and the better relationships i had with them, like, okay, let’s, be realistic about this and also is this realistic for me to ask for? Or is there are there some adjustments that we should make that’s so meet the put the funder is looking for, but that aren’t going to be just a pain for everybody to actually implement if you get the grand also good point too you’re going to be counting on other people? Or is that another reason to allow enough time? Exactly? I don’t want to make enemies in your you got enough opportunity. Do that elsewhere around. Same team here. Okay, i gotta take a break. You’ve heard the talis moughniyah lll from lee elementary school, where they’re getting a monthly donation from tell us for the credit card processing of a parent owned company that’s the secret to the monthly pass of revenue from tell us, ask the people close to your organization who owned businesses that would they switch to tell us that’s the key? Get those insiders started tony dahna em a slash tony tell us now back to grants for newbies anything else around this discussion about deadlines? More hold out on us now don’t wait to submit an online application so the last day like i always i actually block, would block off time on my calendar because i definitely like the day before submitted and like their website has gone down, you know, like will this count against us? We don’t know, maybe we should have submitted it earlier, and so then you end up panicking about it. You know why you schedule it, like at least three days in a fans for, like, an online submission, or, you know, maybe till i get it in the mail, get it, you know, tracks, you know, it’s worth getting a track for that piece of minds. I once drove across town and actually dropped it off. But that’s, an idea you got there twenty minutes before that funders office closed. Got there, just in the nick of time. It was a day off, but that was not ideal. Don’t do that. Don’t do that. Don’t let this happen to your exact a proud moment, okay, but thanks for sharing. Hyre. A prepper preparing for online submissions. We just talked about that clearly. Tips for online. We got more time to get now, when is your sessions? Have you had it? This morning. Okay. Now you spoke for an hour on this topic. And you? We did. Okay. What? I think it was just right. Join now. We’ve been together for seventeen minutes. So are like sixteen minutes. We have a minute of prep. You got more. Don’t hold out on us. Ah, fun fact about me. I love reading nine nineties that’s. If you know what those are, the virus form nine. Ninety. Exact wired by latto you like you’re not talking about the easy no, no, no, no. Thirty patients postcard postcard don’t no, no, actually, i started high school with a non-profit i was volunteering for that’s how we fund-raising to come back because we’re all volunteers so i was taught very of sixteen. Seventeen howto break them down and i enjoy it now for sure somebody tips on how to decipher how to get out of the good things to know you can find out who you need to contact as far as who to invite to her events, if you’re afraid that religion is the foundation, you’re looking at the wound, yes, so they have to list who was involved with our foundation. So i’m talking about their board, who their highest paid person is our persons, you don’t have to disclose your five thing exactly he’s on the nine, ninety okay would say if you are not inviting those people to her events, you should, because those are the people who have power clearly in that organization. If they don’t know who you are and you’re not on their radar, you should be, and that list it verifies, hey, they’re important to be on this form. I should probably know who they are, and they should know who i am so that i always tell people check that list out is web sites aren’t always updated quickly on dh that’s, a yearly thing that the irs form also their disclosure of where they give money. People can say a lot of things, but what they report to the arrests have to be legit, so looking at how much they give tio organizations that are like yours, so if you’re, you know, arts organization and you find a nine ninety where they’ve given in the past, but their highest gift has been two thousand dollars. I wouldn’t go for them for ten thousand dollars. I would stay in that range of okay under two thousand it’s the first time, maybe a thousand, but it gives you a good indication of what they’re capable of giving that’s also looking at their salaries if their executive director only makes fifty thousand and you need that probably shouldn’t ask for fifty thousand. But you should definitely okay, little things like that where you can break that down on nine nineties there free. You don’t have to. Everyone has tohave one. Some of them are located on people’s websites, so they’re really easy to find this buy-in store have foundation. They d’oh d’oh scores another one. I sir, has its foundation, of course, has attorney xero back-up probono also happens. We’re together database e-giving well, yeah, yeah, so little things like that. I kind of check on what i do take on a freelance client and they say, oh, i want to go after this grant, i check out that foundation first and say, is this worth your time? Because they might have grand ideas off. Oh, they’ll give me this when in reality no, they’re not so it’s. A good way to double check yourself and it’s a free source and they have to give it something else that can happen is referrals from board members, but not bona fide like just right. Oh, i heard i heard the rockefellers funded. Yeah, great. You know, let’s see, if that i dont happen, you know our work, you know, they have a lot of money, a rockefeller have a lot of money and gets to exactly everybody knows that. And if they’re not allied with what we’re doing now, what’s the point. Sometimes you have to press back, push back. Otherwise you’re going to be real. Or if you find in baltimore, we have certain family foundations where they give to similar organizations throughout the year if you’re new on the scene and saying, hey, is this a good opportunity or good contact? Tohave you can find similar people are doing your work and say, well, they’ve already got a contact with them. They might like me too. So it’s a good way to say like, are we on the same level, you know. Will they even, like, welcome, ian, if they’re already on that same mind. So i like to look at that. Zoho your peers are exactly know your peers are going after. So you khun get a piece of that pie. Okay. All right. Those were excellent. Thank you, danielle. Insider like pro tips for the nine. Ninety it’s. A weird thing i liked. I glad somebody likes to look at them. It’s mitch, what else? We got several minutes together. Somebody but somebody had brought up like they had this sort of weird program model. And anyhow, i think one of things that’s important to think about is as much as we harp on following the instructions and following, you know, everything that they asked for the tea. Like what? Their contact preferences are, et cetera. Also don’t feel like you should be boston by that. Right. So that’s that’s, i think where working your network has the potential. Teo, open up. You know, other ideas. So i get in terms of corporate funders. Right, corp corporations usually have both, like the they might have a corporate foundation, but there’s a marketing dollars that they give. Out of to write for a slightly different reasons, right? But if you have a conversation with whoever’s in charge of giving right, or even if it’s somebody in their corporate social responsibility department, right, you can have that conversation about, you know it does this make here’s what we’re doing here, some opportunities for your organization to get involved, you know, maybe if employees engagements important to them, whatever it is, right? You finding out what that angle is for, what they’re trying to achieve through there giving right, whether it’s on the marketing event sponsorship side or they really like that grants more formal grantmaking side for it or some bridge of the combination of the two right, and then also corporations, national corporations in this half like local community e-giving where that local store of, you know, say of a large chain store, they might have that store manager might have the ability to give out small grantspace right, it’s a good way to get your foot in the door and say like, hey, can we get we work across the state? Can we get? Is it possible to get funding at that state level? So i think don’t be afraid to sort of, like, figure out what is your foot in the door to start that conversation with them and that’s also where you can find out. Okay, you know what? Maybe this isn’t really good fit, but people move around to write and they remember you like you’ve had a really good relationship with them. You’ve, like, always kept him updated, invited them to your events, right? See what we’re doing, even if you’re not doing it right now, maybe you personally, like i would make, you know, like we’ve gotten i’ve seen people like, you know, like, okay, my company isn’t doing right now make a small personal gift because i think you guys are doing great work, right? And those people have moved, and i’ve also see them come back and say, like, you know what? I’m a different organization that now funds programs like yours, so you know, like, the more you can build those relationships and have those conversations just get on people’s radars, as danny mentioned, the more people you know, just like personal networking, the more people know what you’re doing and see that impact it has, then i think that’s more people can advocate for you. Someone who’s volunteered to re grants for review. Ah lot of the decisions come down to do i know who this person is. Do i know who this grant us for? Andi it’s very shallow thing to say like, well, i don’t know who that is, why i give money even though they’re doing great work, but it’s a reality. If you’re not on their radar, why would they take a chance on giving this x amount of money? So you really do have to think about how you’re engaging those people that you’re going after and don’t just approach them when you need money approached me around so they know who you are and they feel comfortable getting with that amount of money that isn’t that the same as what we do with individual? Yes, come to the clinic and engaged. We educate them just like them. And then, you know, the ultimately that there may very well be a solicitation for some, you know, for something and and janice, you’re point is very good to terms of corporate, you know, it’s not only about money, but employee engagement, your opportunities it’s often very important, right? Or if they’re start opening headquarters in a new community, and then i have a relationship with that community, and you, d’oh, right, that’s, a good place to position yourself as well. Okay, uh, we still have another couple of minutes left, like men and a half or so together. Daniel, i guess. My three takeaways for writing, because that’s, my background study, playwriting. But this is how i get to write as well. It’s all over it’s weird, but i would definitely say, win or lose, funded or not, i was under thank you letter i’m a big proponent of thank you letters that’s part of the follow-up you never know when friend funding will become available. So that little piece of thank you, you know, regardless, we’ll keep them engage. I always say simple equals fundez so you might have a beautiful paragraph about everything you’re doing, but when it gets down to it, it might be too much. So that goes back to the instructions. If they have a word limit, follow it. But also you’re getting too wording and just what you’re doing. Just take it out. They really want to look at the numbers and the outcomes and how they’re going to get that money back if there is opportunity for that looked like that. And then your last one kind of brief. Last one said you had three three takeaway? No, i don’t never mind. Okay. Thinking. Sorry, right to protest to yeah, those are the two big ones too big to take away. Okay. All right. We are going to leave it there. All right, so my pleasure they are. They are jenise chan, the technical training specialist in development and alumni relations for johns hopkins institutions on danielle faulkner dahna engagement coordinator at baltimore community foundation. It sounds like she’s also a freelancer. Yes. Okay. Okay. Girl right. That’s, the freelance for arts funding in baltimore city. We’re looking for that girl right where you are, right? Tio? Yep, like playwright. Okay. Danielle janis, thanks so much. So much. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen, ninety si, thank you for being with us. This interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits, thanks so much next week. Storytelling and free facebook fund-raising if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. 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Nonprofit Radio for April 20, 2018: Strategic Alignment

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Dennis Miller: Strategic Alignment

Dennis Miller wrote “The Power of Strategic Alignment,” his third book, because he’d seen too many nonprofits expend time, energy and money without achieving the success they hoped for. He wanted to turn that around. (Originally aired April 11, 2014)

 

 

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s for twenty pot smokers unite! Oh, i’m glad you’re with me i’d be thrown into kenna phobia if you try to smoke me out with the idea that you missed today’s show strategic alignment. Dennis miller wrote the power of strategic alignment, which was his third book because he saw too many non-profits expending time, energy and money without achieving the success they hoped he wanted to turn that around. This originally aired april eleventh twenty fourteen i’m tony steak, too thank you, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com bye tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us here is a huffing and puffing dennis miller. I’m very pleased now to welcome dennis miller. Dennis c miller is a consultant and executive director of fairleigh dickinson university’s center for excellence. He spent over twenty five years as a health care executive and achieve the status of fellow in the american college of health executives face-to-face in italy, in italian fundchat is not very not very complimentary, so we’ll skip the italian it’s f a c h e he’s, a regular columnist for the non-profit times he’s at d c, miller associates, dot com. And on twitter he’s at np board therapy he’s breathing heavily because he rushed to get here, which i appreciate very much. Dennis miller, welcome back. Thank you, tony. Nice to be here. The pleasure. And were in the studio this time last time. We were at the westchester afb. That’s, right? Several years ago is probably three. Well, yeah, three years ago or so, roughly less traffic on dh. Yeah. Understand? Yes. That was much easier to just walk from your booth over where i was doing the interviews. All right. But since then, you’ve written another book. Yes. Your third? Yes. On strategic alignment. Yes. What is the problem? Why was her book? So why did you do it? I haven’t worked with so many non-profit clients. I realize that in spite of their commitment to the mission ah, and their overall commitment to the sector that many just struggled to. Engage the board and struggle to succeed and so haven’t done numerous board assessments and organizational assessments. I realized too, that in terms of difficulty of having everybody line that the traditional strategic planning process needed to be shook it up and have a new way forward and that’s my concept of strategic alignment, okay? And what is it that we’re, uh, we’re hoping to align? Well, basically, it says it sounds simple, but it’s it’s very challenging any organization or any individual has tohave a wheel vision for the future. Oftentimes we think of vision is just a vision statement, it hangs on the wall or in some book, and we don’t pay attention to it. It’s absolutely crucial that we have a vision for you want to go to and then have all the stakeholders internally and externally align with that and that’s usually not happening, okay? And and those stakeholders who are we talking about? Well, certainly internally we’re talking about the leadership team on the board of directors, the trustees will care about the volunteers we’re talking about the staff and externally was certainly talking about the donors and any other government or appointed officials or keep people in the community that want to be involved in the organization it’s a very important have everybody aligned and it’s also not just alignment, but also very important to understand today when there’s a whole new set of conferences in nontraditional skillsets that leaders and board members have tohave okay, that’s interesting on, and i think we’ll have time to talk about some of those, uh, competencies and expertise that are required. I’m so it really is possible you’ve seen this, it can happen that all these internal and external stakeholders constituents can can actually focus in and pursue the same direction it does happen. I mean, i’ve been to experience it with all of my clients wrestling to pass certainly a couple years that i’ve been at this for quite a long time ah, whole new concept of actually spending a lot of time up front really doing an assessment of the organization and knowing not just its strengths, but obviously it’s areas for best practice improvement, not a swat analysis, which kind of leaves you with an empty feeling of what two d’oh swat swat is the strength sprint leading opportunity, threat, suasion, threats it was the old traditional way of people doing a strategic plan assessment. But at the end today it was like so now what do i do with this? From my point of view, it’s about now is getting to know what you are but helping them happen. The leader’s helping aboard, helping everybody understand that today’s compasses they’re very different as example. Okay, you know, usually in the past and executive rector was high because of either they’re good program skills, the ability, the right grant, good community relationships and their passion for the mission or dedication to it. Today the compasses for a good leader and the non-profit are very different today. Ceo stands for chief entrepreneurial officer. You have to be the one who helps make things happen. You have to be building relationships. You have to have a visionary view. You have to be able to build relationships and build your brand. You have to be able to communicate your success and talk about your achievements. You have to find opportunities to collaborate with it’s a very different opportunity to be passively waiting for things to happen and hoping they dio for actually making them happen. That’s a different today’s leadership, you know, interesting. Uh, chief, entrepreneurial officer? Yes, i believe that. So even large organizations, i’m used to work out good size hospitals. Yes, they still a tally stick the leadership, but maybe even trickling down. I need to be entrepreneurial. I think at every level, i think that again, i mean, i’ve been in the nonprofit sector or having worked for non-profits sector even as a corporate executive freedom from thirty years here, now that we have to think of ourselves with a different mentality that we have to think of ourselves, not as non-profit, which i think is a negative term was realizing that non-profit is our tax that is not our business plan. And in order to succeed and have a mission, i think you have the balance up mission in margin. But it is very important today to be focused look differently in terms of how you getting your revenues to often we’re so dependent on government and state public funding. It’s not there, and we’re going to a panic is our opportunity to build programs that are impactful tohave people want invested it and that’s kind of what my book describes i’ve had another ceo say the exact same thing about non-profit being our tax status, not our business mentality, not our mindset, right? It tends to create sort of ah hand to mouth. Yeah, and i think it was because i hate to use the word, but there’s almost a sense of, um, self fulfilling prophecy that we go around talking about. Maura non-profit well, then you’re going to end up not making a profit. If you have no profit, you can’t steer it back in the organization moving forward here. I’m fully aware of the challenges that is, but i think you have to think very differently today and leadership must be a really different kind of skill set than they were in the past that looks like you could use a drink of water after this walk, so go ahead, allah, i’ll frame this question long enough to give you a chance to take a sip, okay? We’re sharing the full experience with listeners who wanted it it’s actually a little traffic on route eighty today, coming from jersey, i’m normally not a problem and three lanes going down the one was not it was not that was not. Good, but you got here i got here. I got you feeling all right now i feel great right over here. Okay, i’m glad to be here, but you feel okay. I feel great, actually. But i’m glad to be here. I feel good. All right, good to see you and say i’m thank you. Thank you. All right. We’ve got some obstacles to overcome now, though, if if we’re going to be aligning people to a common mission and vision vision let’s say vision there’s going to be a lot of compromise people people don’t especially on the external means the external constituents that you mentioned sometimes boards, volunteers sometimes they’re not so willing to be ah, compromising well, i think it’s really one of the great things about our country is obviously the tremendous matter of volunteerism, people committing to volunteer, being on boards here, and certainly the great philanthropic effort of people in this country. But i think in terms of so many of us and i say myself included the former, you know, ceo of major companies sometimes do not do a good job of really identifying for bored what we want him to dio we don’t discuss the issue about financial resource commitment at the time of bored recruitment and the role of the board of dramatically changing and oftentimes boards like i didn’t know that i wasn’t sure that was going on what’s my role here and i use the expression of sometimes, you know, people leave their sense of humor and intelligence at the door. When you go into a board meeting in yesterday, they’re all the board was certainly beyond found it was the fiduciary role which was very important overseeing fiscal policy, finances, budget investments, budget personnel, then boards evolved and became one strategic and business like everybody had to have a business plan strategic plan, but the day really mature board has to be a leader in partner with your ceo, it has to have a sense of of ownership and has have a sense of being active kapin actively response for making things happen, not just watching them happen, and so that today the wall with a boredom in alignment is very different. Yeah, how does that board fit into this entrepreneurial latto well, it’s crucial because the board has to think well out tomorrow as well as an example, i have an organization that right now for years struggled to have a new executive director. Who’s done a great job, but the board was kind of passive. The board didn’t expect toe, you know, beyond making a contribution of helping out today’s new board they have is energetic, its leadership as new ideas is making relationships with other people here is bringing people table it’s, telling their story, it’s getting people excited about what they do. The board’s role is very different today. It’s not just passive. Instead, because you liked emission or care about the mission, you have to want a wool api sleeves and kind of bring it to the table. And you mentioned this. This organization shin that excuse me where the board turned over that’s ah that’s. Ah, lengthy process though. It’s. Not easy. I mean, you know, many of us, you know, we get we identify with our organizations and we could become attached to them and it’s. Very difficult. But as i say to people all the time, you know, good organizations evaluate their chief executive, great organizations. They violate their selves and their own border performance. And that’s kind of what? I do a lot of but it’s really important to help them along don’t listen, they’re out, they’re all good people, but we often times it’s just sort of stuck in the rut and you don’t really have to be more helpful to the organization. We’re going to go out for a short break and when we come back, of course, dennis miller is goingto dennis miller and i were going to keep talking about strategic alignment, so hang in there, it’s time for a break pursuant. Do you know what they do? Besides all the valuable free resource is i talk about their a full service fund-raising team they will help you make sense of your data, your existing data, they do creative, they can help you with donor acquisition that could make your digital fund-raising bring in more money, which is talking about email strategy and they do execution, they don’tjust not just lay something out, and then you gotta execute it on your own. It doesn’t work like that, they do it landing pages ceo ecm google adwords, facebook, google twitter ads this they don’t only exist online, though they will also help you thrive off line. Um, they do creative. If you need help with fund-raising, they are a a full service fund-raising team that’s them it’s all in tony dot m a slash pursuant to radio now back to dennis miller and strategic alignment. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, dahna i. Before we go any further, i wantto correct dennis’s earl. He has a new one that that i was not aware of. Dennis, c miller, dot com it’s launching tomorrow and associates are out the door. Absolutely so don’t go to dennis, don’t don’t even think this email social still taking a dynasty, miller, back-up but the tagline, revitalizing non-profit board. Okay, we’ll go directly, go, dennis, similar dot com. Okay, thank you, tony, my pleasure. Okay, our board. You know, we spent a lot of time on this show talking about boards. The board is going to be sort of, you know, they’re they are part of the leadership, and we need leadership to implement this very important vision statement because we’re all going to be strategically aligned to the common vision. We need to have leadership to create this vision. Absolutely. I mean, it’s, i think, you know, in the old days, it was the board that set the vision and they wanted someone to implement it, which was the old title executive record than it has to be done in partnership people to have to own it. So certainly the ceo has to be integral part of setting that vision with the board here. But the difference is today the board has to have a responsibility for making sure that vision it achieved and what would be the measure progress towards what are we going to do? What do i have to do? Is aboard, mate? What can i do? It turns of my own role here. One of them frequent things mentioned to me during a board assessment is many times boardmember. Don’t feel is engaged with the organizations they like on dh that’s a common thing on what’s really falls on onto the shoulders of is the board chair or bored present? Whatever the terms and the ceo have to find a way toe seek thie individual talent that each person has and find the way to engage them in this process. Some people are sort of involved with social medium walking find a way to tap into them other people more involved in community relations, the community find the way to engage you board the board has to be engaged on an emotional level. I too, want to achieve that vision. That’s the excitement, that’s the thing that makes things happen is betting yourself and continuing improve yourself. So you’re there to provide the mission for your organization. You make the point in the book that leadership is how you make people feel. Well, i i do say this year i mean, ah it’s a long time ago working different people here. I say all the time that you know people as a leader, people will often forget what you said. I’ll forget what you did but to always remember how you made him feel. And i think one of the mistakes that many people make it the top of leaders at the top is they think they could do it by themselves. They don’t realize they need a team to do it. So it’s, very crucial in my first book, a guy to achieve new heights of four pillars let’s accept non-profit leadership. I describe obviously the characteristics of a good leader which really four basic things. A phenomenal ability to build relationships inside the outside organization, but to be built trust respect amongst all the employees is they have to have my field. You care to make sure there’s a person in charge number chill. You have to be able today not only to be passionate emissions, you have to be able to communicate your achievements and your success. You have to tell your story and some case you have tto pound your chest a bit more than the normal, very different part of leadership. How would you like to see this? The assessment process and the and the strategic planning process? I should say be different. Yeah, well, what i recommend is this year and, i mean i certainly do a lot of them, but i mean, anybody who’s sort of who’s, talented and sort of organizational development, organization of psychology or things like that. First, what you want to take a look at the organization sends information as a physician would take a look at history and physical x rays of blood work before they did any thing you want to take a look at, you know, just get familiarize yourself. What are the financial statements or what do the annual report select what’s the market communication what the information is going on here, number two, you want to be able to schedule face-to-face confidential meetings with preferably all members of the board and key leadership team and ask open ended questions and they range from not just on how long you been on the board, but on a scale of one to ten how effective do you feel the board is today? Ah, if it celestine of certain, i’m asking why we’re getting to some of that board self assessment that you mentioned earlier, not just valuing the ceo, but valuing themselves. Yeah, and evaluating their perspective on the organization too. How do they feel? About the committee structure, are they involved in the committee? Is our committee structure is your vision well, it’s amazing when you ask questions, tony, a board members about tell me what your mission is, and they describe it pretty quickly and they’ll be asking what your vision is. They say they repeat the mission and oftentimes organizations because we’re all caught up in the alligators, all caught up in fighting the day. Did they battles? Battles? We often don’t have a vision and it’s the one thing that will propel you forward more than anything else toe having a vision for your organization that everybody believes in. And then every activity, every activity of the ceo, every activity, the board, every activity of the program, every activity banning stretch everything is geared towards achieving that vision and constantly moving forward. That’s a big step for boards. We have to be very conscious of measuring our success toward the vision. Yes, we have. We have vision. And then we have mission and then goals steps to achieve that mission. These all need to be measured. Duvette, this is part of the self assessment. Absolutely. I remember back in my early days or, you know, being a president of a large hospital and new jersey and the vision when i got there was to be the best comedian hospital jersey and was like, what does that mean? How would you know the the best camin hasta mary-jo xero and so often times peoples in the non-profits activision statements are you had to be the premier behavior health care system to be the premier human service. Argast but how do you measure that so poor? The idea is, how are you measuring your progress? Are you achieving? If you cannot demonstrate you making progress toward division, then you really haven’t done a good job. So it’s really crucial is part of the assessment asked those questions, and he has a question that i think everybody should be asking their borders. How does i ask this altum as a boardmember how do you measure organizational success? Well, how do you measure the board success? And it’s it’s, a stimulating conversation is a little bit provocative, but that is so crucial to get him think a little bit differently than the challenges they face every every day here and that’s just kind of what? We talk, what do people typically say? They don’t say they say, well, we measure the bottom line, you know? We’re still we’re still open was still wanting, you know, the door’s not closed, that kind of thing, but it’s kind of a sad commentary when you measure your success, just affect whether you’re still open in business and, yeah, that threshold it’s a very low bar doubled, and i think, honestly, it’s it’s, not a question that we often ask you and i think it’s one one of my books, maybe the second book to non-profit bought their books, i’ll get confused there’s so many about that just i can’t remember what i said in my first book of my third buy-in but well, i described this year i said, can you imagine this scenario at a board meeting? I want to call the meeting to order. Okay, tony motion approved a minute, sam. Seconds it ok, let’s, go on their first item agenda. Let’s talk about why we exist. What’s our real purpose. Why do we exist? What’s. And it sounds like come on, we got more thought. That’s. A really good question asked. I also did it. I did it. Work shot once really was funny. In hindsight, it was not funny. Ah, the organization wanted to raise a million dollars. Now i didn’t want fund-raising in my early days than i do now. But i have a lot of relation with people here. And i told you because anything we’re not ready to raise any significant money. But they asked me if i would do we treat on fund-raising. And when i got to retreat, my first questions it wass, could you tell me what your top two achievements were last year? And it was just dead silence in the room. It was dead. Silence. Follow-up waded our budget. There was no one cares. Following a woman. The back room says we do this program called pals p a l s a stands for peace. An alternative learning system. So what does that says? We teach young children who have been subjected to either sexual assault with domestic violence. Howto build trust relations with people again. That’s. Phenomenal. How do you communicate that? You stay cold. Us? They said we don’t do a good job. But that’s. Why having trouble raising money? Only one person in the retreat there’s, a border treat only one person identified pals as a as a success from the previous year, so they’re not even communicating it within themselves. Exactly. And i don’t think where it’s not part of the the dna so many non-profits not to be focused on achievement it’s focusing on the mission by itself. Here, don’t get me wrong. I’m a merry mission focus guy thinks it’s crucially important it’s why i have dedicated my life to helping non-profit organization very passionate about it, but you have to be nowadays achievement driven results driven. Why is that important? Well, because i want it because it’s a good process to have but two funders investors today, donors alone, institutional and person, but they want to make a difference, and i mean just similar to someone wanting to invest in the stock down on wall street and see the return philanthropic people of very range from small donors so large they want to know what you’re doing with it. They want to know, are you making a difference? And you have to some way be able to communicate them to different you’re making plus when you talk about your achievements when you talk about your success, it changes the mindset, i believe, for board members to think to go away from fund-raising i described a tin cup theory where you feel like you begging for your needs, and he began to have a conversation about talking about your achievements and your success. Now the concept becomes, are we do we think we need to have investors in our success? The answer is yes, so it changed the mindset from talking about what we need is an organization just to keep going to what we are achieving and wanted to continue those successes, no steps, it’s very different. This all means that we’ve got to ask very hard questions because we’re going to have to identify metrics, yes, they’re goingto that we’re goingto review and and report on at at the board to our stakeholders. As you’re saying, they demand it, you know? And we might not always like what those numbers have to say first asking the hard questions and then getting the answers that may not always reflect what we what we’d like them to month after month, quarter after quarter, and not only that, i remember doing a sort of a focus group, part with employees group that i was doing strategic plan within, i asked, was a behavior health care organization, which is a lot of work, and i asked this group, you know, how many counseling sessions do you do in a year and the one of the top executives and well, they don’t know that because we don’t give that information? Well, the whole point of the strategic alignment is that every employee, every level has to be a line with your organization goals, their individual goals have to be in line with your goals, and and people need information. So not to have this information is sort of making a disconnect between your organization goldenburg individuals is very important that everybody get involved. I would hope that’s a number that everybody can be proud of, and if it’s not, then we all need to work together to make it a number were perhaps aly and when people focus and on, you know, progress and success and measurement, it’s not about holding people the punish people, but and is more than just accountability, it’s having something to strive for in life we always feel better when we’re striving for something and it’s important as an organization to think differently, that about poor me, you know, we don’t have any money from the government. What are we going to do but today’s, you kind of make it happen and there’s a responsibility that it can’t happen, organizations at every level and every type can succeed with a news conference. E of leadership would a new skill set of the board would a with a passion to achieve your vision with measurable records of success or a point of success, and everybody being held accountable and and measuring you performs accordingly. It’s fun! A different challenge. We’re going to fund all this. So it’s, sort of a perfect leading to what you were just driving. We need to have ah plan for for bringing in the money to create all this. Well, you know, but i think you have to start with something different. I mean, waffen times. We start with a fund-raising playing which involves something like this year and it’s. A little it’s. A little funny, but i go like this are a typical development committee is like, okay, let’s call the meeting to. Order. All right, ho. We’re going onto this year at a gala. Ah, we honored him last year. Two years ago where you want her so we can honor who’s got a chair or golf committee? Who kind of a wine tasting is, you know, how much is going to cost? How much money can we bring in? And then we talk about well, anybody go over the major prospects that we were signed at last week’s meeting or less much meaning to talk about anybody approaching any large givers and the silence in the room. And then the development chair says, well, you know, let’s ah, let’s put that let’s table that till more people come to the meeting next week. Let’s not talk about the table settings for the gala. We have a different mindset that people just not engaged. They’re terrified of fund-raising they’re afraid of rejection. We have to think differently. You got to start with a case was support. Why? Why? With someone investing you? Why should be worthy of a gift? You gotta start with that process and then then the true. What is the difference? Your gift will make what’s the difference. And then number three, obviously the various ways to people can give, but you have to have a more comprehensive fund-raising plan today. Yes, special events important, i call them friendraising besides just fundraisers, oftentimes the fundraiser is an end to itself. It needs to be beginning. We need the cult of any people besides your annual pill, but people are the ones that give the overwhelming eighty percent of of money in this country and people there’s money out there. People will invest in you if you tell him about who you are. If you show them your excitement, if you show them your energy was showing what you’re doing, there will be people in your community at every level. Did they want to support you? But if you come across with a tin cup theory begging for money because if you don’t go on a business, it’s a very unappealing process and you’re going to be stuck in the mud. But your first question that you’re suggesting asking of donors you know why? Why should you give you asking it internally so that you can answer it extremely washing to give to the organization that goes back to these? Hard questions that we’re now asking and we have presumably we have metrics that say here’s, the reason to give because because we’re impacting, we’re changing, we’re impacting lives were not just not just having therapy sessions, but here’s here we prevented six suicides last year, actual and hundreds of cases of depression were were treated, and people got jobs that were largely unemployable because of their depression and right, i mean, this is the why, how many people that have been homeless, but not because we’ve developed a collaboration with behavioral unit are now ending the cycle of homeless was ending the cycle of depression, ending the cycle of mental health issues that’s so they can sustain employment or sustained family integrity. These are things we need told that’s what people want to hear. So again, it’s a very different mindset and part again of my process, strategic alignment is putting is assessing where you’re at looking at the piece of you put together and giving a plan of action to it and it’s all again really, tony about execution, okay? We’re gonna get the execution. I mean, we’ve got all this in line, and we’ve talked a little. About our our funding plan. Anything well, is anything more you want to say about the funding part of it before we get teo execution, i just think it’s really important to ah, um, make sure that everybody’s on board with that and what i, um here’s what i here’s what i want from my boards, okay? I would very few exceptions and i’m not talking about, you know, billion dollar boards metre palm zem award. Ok, very high level princessa university and stuff like that. What you really kind of want is i don’t want my boardmember is really asking for money, honestly, because they’re going to ask for to load you don’t know how to do it. I want my board to help me identify two or three prospects every six months. People today can help me have an introduction to breakfast mean, they can come on a tour of our facility. I want boardmember is help me build relationships. I will do the asking or will work as a team and building a strategy for that, but i really want my board to take on a different role on that and and that’s, just a border had how to be asking for money? It’s much deeper than that. We need to take a break for wagner cpas. They’ve got the wagon. Are i exhort you to check this out? Prepare your nine. Ninety for success. If you’re one of the fortunate organizations that has enchanted year after year to complete the full nine ninety not that sap lis easy or the end postcard. Then listen to the wagon. Are it includes common mistakes and most damaging mistakes. I wish i had heard this inviting the high school. I made so many mistakes. Yeah. Oh, i have a terrible crush on her. So my strategy is going to be ignore her that way. She’ll never come around and she’ll never know. You want to avoid those damaging mistakes. Also, how to use your nine. Ninety is a marketing tool. That was you. Eat. Who was on the show? August fifth, august seventh twenty fifteen. All this is that wagner cpas. Dot com go there. Quick resource is than wagon ours. Now time for tony steak too. Thank you for indulging several p recorded and archive shows in a row. I do. Thank you, it’s. Not the way that i prefer to deliver. Non-profit. Radio to you to produce it that way, but there are times when i don’t have any choice, i want you to know that i am conscious of it. I don’t just do it, um, you know, because i have not, you know, because i don’t feel like producing a live show, it’s, not like that at all. The archives in the pre recordings. I know you know, where they’re very good, but live has that special energy, and i know it. I feel it. I prefer live it’s, always my first choice. I’m always trying to do that, but i do live in two different places now, and we had non-profit technology conference and i was away other weeks, so i couldn’t do it. But next week, next week will be live and again, i thank you for this stretch that has not been live. Thank you very much for your indulgence. I thank you so much that i want to go to the love the live listener love, thank you, not just thanks love love goes out to the live listeners, the perennial live listeners, or if you’re a first time live listener or for an occasional drop in live listener like ohio, michigan don’t know well zoho together rust belt now that’s, that’s pretty much that i can think of. We get occasional pennsylvania, but it’s it’s more like philadelphia. So wherever we went with your first time or perennial, the live love goes out to you and the podcast pleasantries on the time shift on the different devices where ever you are. Where you painting a house, washing dishes, driving subway bus? Are you binge listening? Ah today’s for twenty you maybe binge listening to the four twenty show, perhaps under the influence? I don’t know whatever, whatever you’re doing, whatever your methodology is pleasantries to you, our podcast audience and the affiliate affections, so grateful that our show is on your am or fm station and so grateful that you are listening as part of it affections to ur am and fm listeners now we return to strategic alignment you were you were nodding and and well, it’ll but what time? Well, we did take time and not too long ago i go to a ruber annually on and that was out in california southern california masson got married. So it’s eighty five degrees out there. Well, as you all know, we went through a horrible winter this year. Thank god it’s springtime thank god it’s april, i don’t see any snow on the ground. I hope there’s no more coming in, but it was very tough. Went for people. But i agree with you also that it is crucial for every one of us to take some time for ourselves and both either with family and friends or just heimans wafer, you need to try either we recharge well, everybody’s working so hard it’s, so difficult for so many people. So many organizations has just struggle who are really good people. So you need some time away to kind of refreshing recharge your batteries school. Thank you for that endorsement. It’s. Good time. That retreat sometimes good time for a retreat. Well, that’s work though. Ah, a board retreat, but could be it could be energizing should be energizing. Ok. Should be energizing should be like. Okay, well, that’s, the way we should be having fun way, right it’s still work, but we can have fun but it should be fun. I mean, if it’s not fun, it should be fun. That means hard work. But it should be fun. Absolutely. I’m making a difference in the life of someone else. It should be fun. You’re absolutely right. It’s. Healthy there’s. No distinction between work and fund. I know i enjoy the work that i do. Write to me busy but it’s it’s fun doing it and i feel like work. I i like, you know, my consulting practice. I love being part of the program at the university for senator jackson’s onto leadership development and our certificate programs and writing my books and articles. But i love just working with people in long as it is, i love it. And that the university is fairly dickinson family taking the university it’s, a centre for excellence. Leadership governs atlanta p and the earl is fdu died four slash c f a cft cf fact under forex next month on may fourteenth we have our second annual conference. Of women and non-profit leadership at the marriott clan pointed tina class it was sold out. So we’re looking for a great break program issue let’s turn to our execution plan that we all need thing is all we got do a lot of planning we got execute. Yeah, well, you know, it’s it’s what i tell you, we all owe everybody who’s been listening. Everybody knows it’s exciting to go to a strategic plan its most times. Then what happens is sort of the so, like a sugar high and it’s a lot of exciting beginning and then a time to implement it. And then all of a sudden, you know, kind of wears often data they challenges. So what if some of recent difficulty movement, first of all we get into way don’t always have people trained to take strategies and operational realities. That’s one thing number two sort of asylum mentality that you know, it’s, not my job. It’s someone else’s job and protecting your own, you know, back end and turf is a problem here and so often times, and i just found it to be completely true in my experience where clients is that where? Most people think the reason for failure is because of external environment conditions. I actually think it’s the internal issues that prevent people from success while blaming the outside of the external that you have no control over easy it’s very convenient. Yeah, i know. So i was i had lunch today with a great great friend of mine. I’ve done a lot of work with and he’s a fantastic guy. He’s got a good organization, but he is not always comfortable, obviously addressing performance issues. And so they get scared under the rug and then everybody also against the moral life. So execution is crucial. I mean, what we find too often, tony is strategic plans sitting on a shelf collecting dust. That’s very common and again. So the board is happy. The beginning thie idea of ah always dresses issue. But then this measuring results and one of things that i recommend is actually having an assessment of usual plan one year after implantation to see how far you’ve come, what you’ve achieved and what maybe need to be achieving what the obstacles here. So the board’s role and ceos rolls execution and it’s rarely because there’s no. Plan of action there. No detail responsibilities. There’s no there’s, no time tables, there’s, no accountability. And so, wait, just calm. You know, we have team meetings and then we go away because we don’t get along with our team and really it’s a ceo’s job to make sure that he or she is building a team is giving people feedback and holding people accountable. I mean, you know and timetables. So we’re signing and time assigning responsibility on time from right. And if there’s an obstacle, go as a team address it. You know, i worked for the organization. What i won’t say whose name you know, not too long ago. And, you know, they point to things. It so it’s. Not my problem. Well, actually, it’s a collective problem. So sometimes issues can be solved by just one person. It needs a team approach. We should be working as a team approach here. I just think that it’s crucial in terms of education, the whole people was the sailors before and often times, you know, in the corporate world which i was just, you know, for seven years a cz an executive running a health care practice in the northeast for non-profit clients ah, people will give a lot of responsibility, but they’re held accountable and unfortunately, a stereotype in the nonprofit world there’s people will forgive a lot responsibility and very little accountability. We sort of have, you know, we don’t want anybody go o r where, you know, we don’t wantto upset the cart, and yet what happens is that when performances and driven and impacts everybody else here, so execution is altum responsible responsibility of the ceo and and that’s when i talked about, you know, the entrepreneur or roll today the leadership conference is a very different execution is crucial. Sitting on a shelf is is an investment. You put all that investment situation, it’s important to see what happened, maybe did something change? Why isn’t example, one of the clients that i’m just finishing work? What wanted to build a from a behavior health care program that was more of an outpatient baseball grant funding? They wanted to build a more of a fee for service program to address the increasing number of people insured to the affordable care act pompel yet it’s in seem to be happening why? Well, they will want organized it didn’t have the right management team in place. I was able to come on and make some suggestions to promote this person to move person along here. So it’s really crucial final why hasn’t something that you said is a goal? Why isn’t it been achieved? It’s it’s really important? Take a look at that. You made too much investment. It’s too important teo cannot keep going. Let’s, talk a little about this breaking down the silos. Yeah, because now we’ve now we’re invoking courage, which i mentioned before that courage from above we’ve got ego. We’ve got personality got turf. Things are not so easy to get. Everybody get broken down and get everybody collaborating. It’s not easy. I mean, we’re human beings. We have attendance to protect ourselves and protect little turf era in our own little eagles. But again, it comes down to leadership accountability, one of things that i did back in my in my hospital days. Remember when i became president of ah, the hospital. You know, the boys recruited me and told me this hospital’s doing so well for actually which turns out it wasn’t but they told me it was doing. Well on patient satisfaction when i got there front and actually that were in the bottom quarter on the country, a little alarming, right? And it was actually embarrassing, but one of things that i did was providing educational training program and the focus of that to remind everybody that everybody who comes that everybody who works here is actually on stage. You know, if you go to report away show and i’m not a big board way guy, but my wife likes to go if you go to see cats, whatever they’re putting out for ten thousand times, but looks like the only time they were put on for you here, i tell people, you know, people come into our organization whether it’s, the hospital organization may be the first time they’ve seen in a hospital could be the best day of the year. Two delivery of a newborn baby. It could be the worst day that grandma has passed away in the ice. You know, it could be a tragedy happen you but day everybody comes in is somebody’s mother, father, brother, sister, we have accountability, tow how we’re going to be treating those people, how we’re going. To be saying hello, how we’re going to be voting, people lost directions, it confound the leadership again. Leadership has to be able to know their person, their personnel, they have to know their leadership team if the leadership team is not working effectively, it transgressions all way down the entire organization. I did this organizational envision setting process for someone and weak appearing when i did employ focus groups was how you know all those people in administration, because why? Because the people in administration talk about each other in a negative way and so it’s important to address it, and i think you can develop team goals, collaboration, eso people don’t feel a strength but it’s absolutely crucial toe let people know what they’re doing well, but as a leader it’s crucial to be ableto communicate the people that need to be able to work specifically that other people and when they’re not address it and give me some improvement. Most people want to do it. Nobody misbehaves intentionally, but it’s really crucial in today’s non-profit setting to be strategic aligned to achieve division chief you goes, you must be internally light and that requires leadership to address. It as well as human resource fortunes because we’re talking so much about health care reminded that i was walking through a hospital once and the guy who was carrying a ladder, you know, clearly facilities maintenance guy, he said hello with a bright smile, you know, and it’s just it’s a struck me i mean, the guy’s got a ladder on his shoulder, he’s still he’s, still greeting me and saying hello. Well, actually, i’ve seen i’ve seen non-profit executives who may have different locations and their employees don’t even know they are, they don’t even visit him. Yeah, so comment right, multiple locations, everybody comes to them. Nobody comes the ceo for a meeting on door, the university president with the multiple college of something nobody comes to them telefund are they getting out? I had a i had a profound with grad school columbia school of public health and administration back a long, long time ago and my professor, i said to all of us one day, so listen, someday you guys going to work in hospitals, put your books away, put your contracts way but we walked down the emerge from remind yourself why you there? And it was a lesson i’ve always learned, and i think the same thing is true here as a leader to step away from your desk, ming with the people that are doing the programs have a conversation with them, go to duncan, don’t start bringing some coffee by some donuts, take a tour, he would they got to say, i mean, the first time they’re probably thinks something critical happen. That’s why there’s, something bad happened, but it’s um, it’s crucial to hear what people have to say, people, i need to be heard when you, when you listen to your employees, they feel cared for it’s all part of the alignment process it’s crucial? You can’t afford not to have everybody’s energy aligned and that’s just that doesn’t always happen the way it should because the leadership is so important. The board, in addition to assessing itself point you made earlier, does need to be doing ceo assessment also and moving out someone who is not providing this the entrepreneurial spirit, that spirit, that leadership that you’re you’re advising and no one’s looking that beat, you know, firing people if you have that sort of the end product. Of the but there’s so many accusations that they have not evaluate their ceo and it’s. So many ceos i’ve asked have never evaluate their own direct reports on dh so it’s crucial performing it may be a requirement. There is requirement accreditation a lot of things that have performance if i was everybody dreads. Um, but that’s the paperwork but it’s really crucial if you weren’t effective leader managed to be able to address on every day basis. The things that people do well, pat him on the back. I just had someone tell me the problem with our supervisor it’s all critical it’s not a pat on the back and so performance the violations should be a re energizer it should be able to say, dennis, this is what you’ve done well, as focused on the good things first tennis, these two things i’d like you to work on. I want to work on this. I want to work on that that’s important and is the impact that’s having it’s crucial to do that? And so you have to evaluate people you have to evaluate your ceo if you’re ceo can’t always do it one of things that is is necessary or investment have a performance coach have a life coach, i’m a performance, i do a lot of performance coaching for ceos and boardmember it helped me get on track, it helps and have an independent, neutral person that they can talk to about their issues they’re having in and support them. So you want to always find the upside you want to help people get better on lee when all else fails the end up coming down determined people, but sometimes it’s, you have to do it empowering to mean the board the board empowers the ceo and maybe it is through some, some coaching, but then the empowerment of course, has to trickle down the ceo. I need to be doing the same for their report. You and he can’t, you know there’s too many ceos or ceos that do everything themselves and don’t delegate and stuff and that’s not why you’re hiring people and so that’s not effective use of your time to be having, you know, twelve direct reports and going overcome reports that that’s not affect do-it-yourself you know it’s it’s, you have to start with yourself though it’s very difficult to empower someone else when you don’t feel empowered yourself here and in alison, i mean, in the hospital, so you have to allow people make mistakes now you don’t want to obviously, you know, you can’t give the wrong blood. I do things like that, but, you know, sometimes people have to make him sex and grow when they learned from and i think you’ve got to encourage innovation. You’ve gotto coverage your employees to take a chance. You got encourage employees, take a risk. Let him know that you support him. You know, take a take a crack at a new program, take a crack at a new angle to it. Do something differently. Give him thie. Given the authority to take risk. It’s crucial. What about what about board recruiting? Yeah, the board is so critical, right? What’s, your advice around getting the right people on the board well is crucial. And he has a couple things here. First of all, i advise my clients to move away from sort of the board the board nominating process. Two aboard recruitment process and let me explain. You know, toni and tamar listens. What? I mean by that? First of all what i recommend to my clients is they should they should have and develop an ideal boardmember tricks. What does that mean? Well, if you were building you bored today, what would be the ideal attributes, talents or expertise that you’d want on your board? What are the geographical areas of diversity? May you want? If you’re involved in westerns? Accounted the one everybody from white plains will you want other ports of you’re involved in a city? The one everybody from manhattan? You want people from the bronx? How about, you know, other firms of diversity on it? What of the skillsets you need? What corporations or philanthropic entities may you want someone on? So you have to develop that set. Number two. You take the same thing for what you currently have and the difference between the two should be aboard with cubine strategies. It’s okay to nominate people to recruit people, you know, but more importantly, today it’s about recruiting people that you don’t know but finding a way to get to them. That is really the talent of board development that it’s not just nominee people, but if you have an example, if you say we really could use someone that is really expert expert in social media, marketing, internet communication you may not know somebody who talked to people who might they know who might you know, in another another corporation find someone they don’t know and then talk about the process zaptitude we often don’t do a good enough job talking about why we should have people on our board. I mean, if you’re bored, does not energized if the board is not excited about if you if you’re not an excitement or condition, we’re not striving to be a winner. You’re not gonna recruit, but you have to be able to ah, pound your chest labbate gonna be talking about that organization, it’s crucial people want to be part of a winner, and obviously, you know, the latter’s voice sometimes get the right person. You gotta go away for a couple moments when we come back. Of course, dennis and i’m going to keep talking. Got to take a break for tello’s, the credit card payment processing this long tale of passive revenue. You’ve got to check this out. Tony dahna slash tony. Tell us this could be revenue for you indefinitely. Ad infinitum that that infinity sign that never ends because you get companies to switch their payment processing to tell us, and then you get fifty percent of everything forever. Tony dahna may slash tony, tell us now, back to dennis miller. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. I got live listener love that i wish i could send, but were pre recorded today. Uh, you know, i think i can pretty well wing it. We know we’ve got listeners from, uh, in japan and south korea and maybe even iran. Certainly china on dh coming domestically. California, maybe agoura hills is listening. That would be mark, i think. Ah, but other listeners from california, new york, new york is always checking in texas. Ah, washington and oregon sometimes. Hopefully santa monica. My kids live in santa monica if you told them to it and then then they’re here. So live listener loved everyone who is listening live and, of course, pod class pleasantries. I just said plod classed pod class pod crit podcast that’s awful said it five times by bob broadcast pleasantries. I say it all the time, but i’m sending podcast pleasantries to everybody who’s listening in the time shift wherever you might be very grateful for all of you, the vast majority of our of our nine thousand listeners. If i could just add something what i said when we talked about a lot of things, you know, leadership board development board recruitment program stuff i think it’s not easy to be successful. It’s not easy to move the organisation for it to do so has takes courage, it takes a commitment, it takes the the the ability to not always make everybody comfortable. I think organizations tony, that need to change is sometimes you have to become uncomfortable in order to grow and far too often. You know, i’m not talking about going out in the elearning any people but that’s part of the entrepreneurial spirit is being uncomfortable, but there’s time in every organization to make changes. I mean, there’s some organizations i work for an organization once that was had a hundred or history. Ah, and it’s certainly gone through, you know, multiple little changes here, but i’ve done a lot of work with many walkers. There isn’t many make-a-wish chapters that you know into their fortieth year and the leadership that was necessary twenty years ago, ten years ago is not that kind of boardmember the people needed not there. It’s change is crucial on what i hope from people, whether they all listen to the show today or they read my books that they confined on, you know, dennis. Similar dot com to amazon or bonds amglobal online. I hope that they find the courage. I hope they’re they’re energized. I hope they’re feel inspired because i do believe that there is a way to succeed. I do believe there’s a way to a better life for these organizations. I have tried toe layout, road maps for them, whether it’s leadership board organization there is a way and there’s many people out there every day their remains and people, of course, this country we’ll get up every day to try to make a difference in life of other people. And i admire that. I’m glad before that. But it’s not easy, but it’s crucial. That changes record. What’s an ideal board meeting. Yeah. Going on, idealware. Finally, i got one guy. Got one good one in the whole hour. Very good. I want decent. I feel bored. Meaning is focusing more about tomorrow, then? Yes, we’ll lay out an agenda for an ideal annoy ideal boardmember people. May i said i would take a little bit of time. Just kind of give, i think. First of all, an ideal board meeting has ideal committee meetings. Okay. Ah, good bored. Has committee structure and you don’t want to do all the work there. I would say a good janet would be to have a relatively brief update on key issues about the financial picture updates on the strategic plan or updates on board governments. I think it’s more important for a good board meaning to be focused in on tomorrow’s activities have the board engaged and about tomorrow i tell people, it’s sort of a thermometer if your board meetings were spending more than fifty percent of the time talking about yesterday, you not having affected board? I mean boardmember should know more ninety minutes, one hundred two hours, maximum if your board meetings to go on more than that, they’re ineffective. So an idea, boyd means when people leave energized, feel refreshed and they don’t have what i call the rubber band theory. Boardmember is rubber band theory boardmember everybody has one. You know you said that your packets a week ahead of time. The person picks up the packet on the wife home from work stops at the board meeting parks the car and takes the rubber band off. The packet is leading the pack. Is that going? To the board meeting goes at a board meeting, doesn’t even have the ability that initially an emotion called home and i second the motion i’m happy put the rubber band back on a really good boardmember of border generals, when the board chair is engaging people for discussion, it’s when boardmember zehr bringing ideas for when boardmember zehr asking questions boardmember should be asking questions. Is that about micromanage? But the board should be challenging leadership interesting, you said relatively short amount of time on things like the budget fiduciary oversight, i mean now, okay, you know, you may have an annual budget planning me, ok, but this is not this is not that this is your average board meeting, but, you know, you don’t need to spend most of the time on the fiduciary, like you’re saying looking back where was money spends etcetera, more time looking forward visionary boy was now and that’s how it should be now, obviously, you know, unfortunately, and today’s climate, most board the spending time, you know, howto bring in money to keep ourselves open here, but i think honestly, they’re going about it the wrong way i think that, you know what i believe in very much in my heart and soul is about there not going about talking about their achievements or not talk about their success. They’re not talking about the difference in the lives of making if you begin the process about that, you will find the money you will worked for in finding the resource is here. So again, the ideal board meeting was when people we had a great boardmember at the university, they are our center for actually what really did on and it was just well, we’re focused, not truthfully, it’s not believing it was energised cause why cause we’re talking about have build our own committee structure about social media and marking communications in the whole university how to be looking forward to a development of online programs, there’s just people in the classroom how to be looking at our own board, which is now two years into existence, how to be, you know, we doing that’s it was it was an energized because we’re talking about tomorrow, people work excited about that, and i think that’s, what we need to focus in on tell me what you love about the work that you do? I loved the i loved the people i work with, you know? I’m a guy that came up from from nothing. No, sir. It was put in my mouth. You know, greta had a lot of issues, as most kids do with family. I went to college, graduated late at the age of twenty eight, graduated grad school twenty nine and became a ceo. Thirty seven. I just love the people i work. What? I love what they do. I loved what they’re trying to do for the people in the community. Ah, that is what i enjoy helping him. I know i’ve helped a lot of organizations. I get a lot of feedback. There’s a lot of wonderful client testimonies on the website. I just have a passion for what i do, tony. I like it. I like people. I like life and well, here to make it better for everybody else. That’s. What? I like dennis miller. You’ll find him at d c miller dot com on darcy miller. Dot com dennis c miller dot com sorry, dennis c miller dot com on twitter he’s at np board therapy and you also find him at the fairleigh dickinson university center for excellence, which we know is fdu forward slash c f, ft you dot ideal forward slash cf. Even my mother called me the n e for many years. I had to tell my mom, my mom is dead and you know, i appreciate that. Thank you very much, dennis. Next week i just don’t know, but i know it will be live if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuant pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Twenty dahna slash pursuant radio regular cps guarding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us our creative producer, in-kind meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scots time be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Yeah. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. E-giving! Cubine duitz are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, i’m nor ing. Sometimes the potentiality tune in every tuesday line to ten eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c. Osili are you feeling unhappy with your body, shape or size? Ever feel out of control with food? I’m elizabeth from nourish the soul, and on this show, you will uncover the route to these imbalances and discover a permanent solution toe having a healthy relationship to food and your body. Join us every thursday morning at eleven a, m eastern time on talk radio dot. 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