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Nonprofit Radio for July 31, 2023: Giving Circles

 

Sara LomelinGiving Circles

What are giving circles, when did they begin, how do they work, why do they shift power dynamics, and where’s their value for your nonprofit? Sara Lomelin has made these spread throughout the world as CEO of Philanthropy Together.

 

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[00:00:25.92] spk_0:
And welcome to tony-martignetti Nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite Heb Domino podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d be stricken with mono neuritis if you caused me pain because you missed this week’s show. Here’s our associate producer, Kate with the highlights.

[00:01:19.70] spk_1:
Thanks, tony. This week we have giving circles. What are giving circles? When did they begin? How do they work? Why do they shift power dynamics and where’s their value for your nonprofit? Sarah Loin has made these spread throughout the world as ceo of philanthropy together on Tony’s take two. Thank you were sponsored by donor box with intuitive fundraising software from donor boxx. Your donors give four times faster helping you help others. Donor Boxx dot org. Here is giving circles.

[00:02:14.39] spk_0:
It’s a pleasure to welcome Sarah Loland to nonprofit radio. She believes that everyone, everyone can be a philanthropist, a philanthropy disruptor. Sarah has traveled the world, speaking about the power of collective giving, she’s an expert in diversifying philanthropy as founding ceo of philanthropy together. Sarah is growing a movement of people powered philanthropy to fund grassroots nonprofits shift power dynamics and promote widespread philanthropy. She’s on the National Council of the Women’s Philanthropy Institute at Indiana University’s Lily Family School of philanthropy and the board of Directors of Giving Tuesday and battery powered. Her company is at philanthropy together dot org and she’s at Sarah underscore Lome. Welcome to nonprofit radio.

[00:02:26.68] spk_2:
Sarah. Thank you so much, tony. It’s a pleasure to be here with you and I love how you start the, the, the energy of how you start the podcast because, you know, um I’m like that and sometimes I feel like I’m the, you know, the person with all the energy in the world and i it’s very refreshing to, to see you there. Well, thank

[00:03:31.10] spk_0:
you very much. Yeah, I, I’m, I’m not one of these. Uh I’m very excited to have Sarah Loin with me today. My excitement, you know, that’s, that, that’s not, that, that, to me, that’s not excitement. So, yes, my pleasure. Uh Yes, high energy, both of us, high energy. So giving circles, giving circles. This is so interesting to me. I wanted to speak to you and then we were on a panel together and then your associate reached out to me and asked if I asked if I would have you as a guest. And I was thinking, yeah, I’ve been trying to, I’ve been, uh it’s, I’ve been on my to do list for maybe six months or so. So, uh I’m grateful that all these factors brought us together giving circles a, a around the pandemic. Is that, is that where they got started or is it before

[00:03:35.09] spk_2:
then? Well, ok. Well,

[00:03:38.09] spk_0:
ok. Oh, well, they go back hundreds of years. I know that too. Ok, that’s true. All right. Giving acquaintance with giving circles, please. I’m talking too much.

[00:05:03.05] spk_2:
No, no, no, no, no, you’re, you’re fine and, you know. Yeah, let’s start with what, what is the giving circle? Right? So again, circle is, you know, a group of people with shared values that get together to create change is um a very effective form of philanthropy that has existed, you know, for many, many, many, many years, they are not new, they are not American, they have existed, you know, the whole idea idea of people banding together to give together is as old as humanity itself. So, you know, there are giving circles all over the world in many, many different cultures. Um Here in the US, the, the the model of a giving circles, as we know, it kind of started getting some spotlights around the eighties. And uh most given circles here in the United States are led by women. So 70% of given circles are led by women. And to this date, like the last research around giving circles, the last, the last landscape research uh was done in 2016. And we saw in that research that there were about 100 and 50,000 people involved in about 1600 given circles at that point that had donated $1.3 billion in the past couple of decades. And that’s throughout,

[00:05:14.01] spk_0:
that’s throughout the world

[00:05:15.84] spk_2:
that, no, that’s only us. Oh, that’s us.

[00:05:18.97] spk_0:
16, 1600 giving circles $1.3 billion. Yeah. How many people, how many people in those six

[00:06:40.87] spk_2:
150,000? Ok. So, the great thing is that now, you know, because when you think about research of 2016, it feels like it’s, you know, from 100 years ago, we are just, you know, we’re in the middle of uh updating that landscape research. Actually, the, the, um the survey just closed at the end of May. So we will have the new, the new report in a few months. And, uh you know, are we know anecdote anecdotically that there are many, many more giving circles and many more people uh involved in them. And uh and we would just want to have, you know, the, the numbers to prove it. But to go back to your question around the pandemic, the pandemic was uh a great moment for giving circles in a, in, in a weird way, right? Uh Because a lot of people, I mean, what all of us were stuck at home and many people were thinking, OK, what is, what is mine to give? Right? I don’t want to feel helpless. What can I do from my living room? And we saw many hidden circles getting started uh that didn’t have, you know, geographic barriers. So I will be contacting my cousin in, you know, Ohio and my nephew in New York. And we were started giving circles uh you know, to support different causes. So there were many given circles that were started during the pandemic.

[00:07:05.83] spk_0:
You like to talk about the, either I, I some place I saw four someplace I saw 54 to 5 features or, or like sort of steps of, of your, your giving circles. So let’s talk about those, either four or five, however you break it down.

[00:07:22.63] spk_2:
Yes. So yes, what do you need to have a uh a, a giving circle, right? Because the giving circle model is super flexible. You and that’s the beauty of it. You can, it’s

[00:07:42.22] spk_0:
like, it’s like, it’s like giving Tuesday. It’s no surprise that you’re on the board of giving Tuesday. There’s a lot more nonprofits involved in giving Tuesday than I’m sure they can quantify. Uh it’s, it’s flexible, it’s open ended. They give you some tools and then you go,

[00:11:19.04] spk_2:
so you go, you go, you know, you will, you will, you will set the rules that you know, fit with your group, right? So, but there are certain things that you should have. So the first of all is a sense of belonging, right? Create a sense of belonging. This is not solo. Phil is collective giving. So you need a group a group which share values that gets together and you know, they discuss their individual values of the members, you know, what are those values um that guide your giving right and find between the group, what are the common values that will guide the, the group? Um After you talk about, you know, the the values that will guide you giving us a group, then you open a space for discourse and this is something that I love about giving circles because it’s a very good way to practice democracy for us. Uh Like right now, you know how many times we don’t even talk to our neighbors anymore, right? We have become very, that the world has become very polarized. And a given circles, a giving circle creates an opportunity for people with different backgrounds to get together and hear different perspectives and get behind the cause even if they think, you know, very differently in a lot of ways so that you open a space for this course. Uh the group will, you know, decide on a cause that they want to support and they will start, you know, evaluating organizations or, you know, initiatives or leaders that they want to support. So that’s kind of the second step. And then the third step is to give with trust. There’s a lot of trust inside, you know, the giving circle model. Why there is um you know, the pooled money or everybody’s pulling their, their, their funds before they even know where the money is going, right? So there is trust in the process, there is trust with one another with the members of the group. And the whole idea is that that trust will get transferred to the leaders on the ground. Because at the end of the day, you and I and all the audience knows that who knows what the community needs is, the community and the leaders working with the community, not the donors, the donors, we don’t know, we need the are the leaders on the ground to guide us, right? So what we want every given circle is to really create a trusting relationship with their, with organizations that they are going to support. And we always say that we need to give us if we give, we were giving to a family member, right? When you look people in the eyes, when you build an authentic relationship with the organization or the cause that you want to support things change. And II I know you, you know this, but that from all the billions of dollars of philanthropic dollars, the, you know, the majority of the funding goes to just 5% of the nonprofits, right? It goes to the big large nonprofits living so many nonprofits. I under

[00:11:34.95] spk_0:
I think you said in uh in your ted talk, 88% goes to 5% 5% of the, the the largest 5% of nonprofits. 88% of the, of, of, of the, that’s in incredible of the gifts in the US. Yeah. That’s, uh that’s staggering.

[00:14:04.75] spk_2:
Yes. Like, you know, if you think about like, uh women and girls issues, right? Only 1.4% I think it is right now goes to women and girls issues. If you think about women of color, women and girls of color, it’s not even 1% you know, for the LGBT Q community is one, it’s 0.3% of philanthropic dollars go to support those causes. So it’s like, you know, it’s on all of us to change that. So going back to the steps of the of the giving circle, you know, giving with trust. So, you know, after the the giving circle gets together and they decide and they discuss and they come to a decision of where they’re going to give their gift and they give it the fourth step. And for me, the most important is to, to act in abundance, right? To don’t let’s not just stop with the financial contribution, but go beyond the dollars. So we always say in given so-called, you know, uh language or lingo that we give our five tes, we give our time, our treasure, our testimony, our ties and our talent, right? And so that is the whole idea how can we as given circle members be elevating all the work that the causes that we care about too. And for example, talking about you know, your ties, each person is part of different networks, right? You are part of, you know, your family, you are part of, you know, a company or you know, a nonprofit, you are part of a community opening doors to these nonprofits and nonprofits that you care about, the costs that you care about and put it in front of your networks. Sometimes it’s a lot more important than a grant that you can give or a donation that you can give. Also, you know, elevating the message of nonprofits for something as simple as I am going to subscribe to this nonprofit newsletter. I’m going to, you know, share uh their event on social media. You know, we, we start creating visibility for those small nonprofits that are, you know, totally invisible for.

[00:14:23.92] spk_0:
Yeah, they, they don’t, they don’t get the attention. Yeah. All right. I, I have a, I have a bunch of questions. I wanted you to, I want you to explain through, you said we’re, we’re pulling our money before we know where the, where, where it’s gonna go. So I, I understand that trust. Um it’s also a little risky. Like I would be, I see I would be a bad giving circle member because if it didn’t, if the money didn’t go where I voted for, because I assume we’re voting. If it didn’t go to the vote cause I voted for, I’d be like, oh, I’m not, I, I mean, I wouldn’t pull my money out. I would, but I would be so upset but I, you didn’t go for my cause. So I would be a bad giving circle member. II, I think I would be a bad one.

[00:16:10.07] spk_2:
Tony. The whole idea of a giving circle to be part of a giving circle is that you are putting your individual decision in the back burner because you are deciding to be part of a group. So you, I I, you know, I managed many giving circles throughout the years. Um and I always said during grants night to the members, like please come with an open heart and an open mind because maybe that organization that you are rooting for is not going to get the crap, but you need to leave the room today feeling happy with the decision of the group because you are part of this group, right? And, and yes, you know, and you will have time to lobby and to, you know, advocate for, for the organization that you care about and maybe it’s not going to happen this time, but maybe in the next grand grand cycle, it is going to happen. And again, you’re not about giving circle member. There are other, there are some given circles that actually allow um the the the the members to I’m making up numbers. But for example, you’re going to give, you know, $1000 each member is going to give $1000 the moment, uh, the grants are allocated, uh, 800 is going to go to the decision of the group, but you will still, will have a small amount that you can give to the organization for your choice. So again, you can, you can figure out the rules that. Oh,

[00:16:36.33] spk_0:
ok. So hybrid, right. Ok. All right. So I, I wouldn’t, you know, I’m, I’m exaggerating but I would, I would, I would support the, I would support the decision of the group. OK. But there is a lot, there is a lot of trust. You are. Uh do, do I, I guess this is a question for the each individual circle too. Like does everybody have to give the same amount?

[00:16:47.59] spk_2:
Very good question. And then if you different

[00:16:49.85] spk_0:
amounts, do you get a, you get more votes? Like do you get, if you give 20% of the, the total, do you get 20% of the vote or do you just get one vote? How we can make, we can make that all up, right? We could do it

[00:19:29.14] spk_2:
ourselves. Yes. Because for example, there are many given circles that, you know, there’s a set donation, right? And everybody gives the same. So everybody has one vote. There are other given circles that have um different donation levels in terms of maybe um they’re trying to attract, you know, younger people. So if you’re in your 20 you give this amount, if you’re in your thirties you give this amount if you’re in your forties, this amount or also, you know, in terms of career uh uh development, um there are other given circles that have a floor of the nation like, ok, the floor is $500 but there’s no ceiling. So maybe some members are giving, you know, 5000 or 10,000, but they are still get one vote. And with that extra donation, they are supporting, getting other voices into the given circle and kind kind of sponsoring part of the membership of another given circle member, but they still get one vote. And there are other given circles that do what you mentioned, like there are different membership levels. And if you know, if I’m at the lower level, I get one boat. If I’m on the second, you know, tier, I get two boats. If I’m on the third tier, I get three boats. But that I would say is a very few number of giving circles do that. The majority is, you know, it’s one person, one vote doesn’t matter how much people are giving. There’s another super cool model that um more progressive giving circles are doing that, you know, talking about trust. This is very rooted in trust. Uh There’s a giving circle in New York called Rat Fund and uh it’s a group of friends and what they do is the donation amount is one per it’s 10% of their income. So there is a lot of trust among them because I’m not going to ask, hey, tony, show me your W-2 like, you know, it’s or your tax return, right? It’s like, you know, there is trust that everybody is given what they are able to give and there are also other given circles that there is not a set amount is OK. Everybody gives, you know, something that it’s, you know, significant for you and

[00:20:21.30] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Those are all interesting. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Um You talked about AAA relationship with the organization where the, the money is going or maybe in some cases where the majority of money is going because you said you could reserve a little, some circles might reserve a little bit for individual gifts. Um So are we inviting, we are inviting nonprofits to come and present? So the, is that a way of doing it? And then like, how do you open this relationship with the? You don’t just, you don’t just send a check? It’s a lot more than that. Obviously, even your, even your last, your last thing, you know, your last step, you said engagement, uh you know, beyond, you know, giving five Ts and it’s not just treasure. So, but talk about the relationship and might you have nonprofits come and talk to the, make their

[00:21:14.93] spk_2:
pitch in a lot of cases. Yes. Yes. And we don’t call it a pitch because, you know, we want to get away from, you know, kind of the, the, the, the, the shark, the Shark Tank, we don’t want the shark tank competition. But yes, you know, uh, the, in a lot of cases, nonprofits get invited to present to the group and, um, in most cases when a nonprofit gets invited to present it because they are going to get a grant. Um, you know, thankfully, uh, the, the more and more I see given circles is that everybody is compensating nonprofits for their time. So if they are asking a nonprofit to fill out, you know, uh a proposal or come to present or whatever is because they are going to get something. Um We work a lot with groups uh to, you know, talk about trust based philanthropy and how you can, you know, do a lot of the homework as a donor, as a giving circle in the background without, you know, taxing the nonprofit with OK, we’re going to, you know, a site visit and you have to deal with 50 of us. You know,

[00:21:38.45] spk_0:
it turns into a, a grant, it turns into a grant proposal then, yeah. Yes.

[00:23:43.71] spk_2:
Yes. So, but you know, to your point, yes. You know, in a lot of cases the nonprofits get invited to present. So there is this, you know, like face to face, right? And I can tell you, for example, the um in the case of I work eight years at the Latino Community Foundation in San Francisco. And uh and I, and I started the Latino Giving Circle Network there. And so I, I did, I, I was, you know, part of many, many, many grants nights and they were incredible because, you know, the moment you, the moment people hear directly from, you know, the, the executive directors of a nonprofit and have a chance to like, really, you know, kind of like, feel what, what the work entails. It’s, it’s another, another dynamic, right? And, and also, you know, it’s a lot of um I’m not going to say humanizing because it’s not humanizing, it’s getting closer to the work. And uh many times the day after grants night, I had some nonprofit leaders that were, that were coming to present calling me saying, hey, can I join the giving circle like as a donor? Like I love this and many of them joined and I did, on the other hand, many giving circle members that they, you know, they started volunteering with the nonprofits, became board members of the nonprofit or, you know, took some of the trainings, like we have been supporting an organization that um supports um survivors of domestic violence. I have had four members of my guinea circle on that board and they started as volunteers. And you know, so for nonprofits, this is, you know, a big opportunity opportunity to also engage more people around your local community. It’s time for a

[00:24:38.37] spk_1:
break donor box. What makes donor box stand out. We heard it last week from Jenna Lynch. It’s a fundraising platform built with fundraisers for fundraisers. They have the Ultra Swift donation form that makes giving four times faster and it cuts down on drop off. They’re a comprehensive fundraising platform along with the Ultra Swift donation form. There’s event ticketing, peer to peer text to give and the new donor box live kiosk so your folks can swipe tap or dip to pay at events. They’re committed to customer support and they understand nonprofits because they all have nonprofit backgrounds. Donor box helping you help others. Donor Boxx dot org. It’s time for Tony’s take two.

[00:27:55.53] spk_0:
Thank you, Kate. And my thanks to everyone who has brought us to 650 shows and the 13th anniversary last week’s show was great fun. But I wanna amplify my, my gratitude to, to you, to our listeners, our 13,000 plus listeners each week. I’m glad, so glad that you’re getting value that you’re bringing subjects to your CEO to your vice president or to your board that we’re, we’re just introducing new thinking for you, even if you don’t need to share it with anybody, just so glad that we are able to give you value. And I’m so grateful that you’re a listener. Grateful to our, our insiders. You know, there’s about 1000 1100 people that I email each Thursday that welcome me into their inbox each week. And uh And I’m grateful. Thank you to our insiders. The guests, the guests, the show would be nowhere with the guests. These smart savvy, bright folks who come, they share their time, their wisdom, their thinking for your benefit. They, they, they want to do the same thing that you are doing, helping small and midsize nonprofits. That, that’s, that’s where you’re all situated, that’s where you’re situated. You’re the ones I’m channeling each week thinking about who should be the guest and what would you want to know from that guest? Uh And remember it’s, it’s not just the time on the show, but it’s the time that the guests spend working with me to, to narrow the topics schedule, you know, back and forth all that. So they, they devote a lot of time. My thanks to our probably over 1000 now uh guests and the team, the great team, uh Kate as associate producer, Clare, as creative producer, music from Scott Stein, Mark Silverman, our web guy, Susan Chavez, our social manager. They’re both excellent. Both been with me for many years and I should have given a special shout out when I was talking about the guests. I should have given a special shout to Jean Jean Takagi. Of course, our legal contributor, Amy Sample Ward, our technology contributor because they just come month after month show after show, so generous with their time. All those folks, all of you folks. My thanks, my thanks for getting us to 651 shows and, uh, this week and the 13th anniversary, thank you. That is Tony’s Take two Kate.

[00:27:57.55] spk_1:
We’ve got, but loads more time now let’s get back to giving circles with Sarah Loma.

[00:28:06.82] spk_0:
I could see how these giving nights would be very moving. I, I, I’m sure, I’m sure there’s tears in some, you know, tears of joy. You know, the collective came together the, the, the bad apples like tony-martignetti, you know, he got put aside

[00:28:21.59] spk_2:
and, you know, he

[00:28:23.02] spk_0:
got asked to leave, he got asked to leave and that, no, no, no. But

[00:28:27.60] spk_2:
uh I could

[00:28:31.36] spk_0:
see, I could see how these would be very moving events.

[00:28:59.54] spk_2:
Yes. No, totally. One time. Imagine, like we, um we uh hearing from an organization that uh works with refugees and, uh, and does, you know, uh legal help, et cetera, et cetera. And um we were working with them around, you know, an advocacy campaign and they were doing like a uh registering to vote uh campaign, right? With young people. And this young guy came to present and he, he was undocumented and he was, you know, leading a lot of these campaigns in colleges, getting people to register to vote because he said, you know, be, be my voice. I don’t have a voice, I cannot vote but you can. So, you know, those kind of things. It’s like, of course there were tears in this, you know, in these nights? Yeah.

[00:29:28.81] spk_0:
Uh Is there a directory of giving circles that, that folks can look to see if there is one in their community or, or more than one

[00:30:35.92] spk_2:
great question? Yes, we have on our website which is philanthropy together dot org. We have the global directory of giving circles. So you can put your zip code or you know, some keywords. Um And you will find giving circles near you or you know, around the cause that you care about. If you don’t find one, you are invited to start your own and we offer free trainings every single month. Um It’s a 90 minute training to, it’s called launch pad, launch pad for you that gives you all the tools to start your own giving circle. And not only that because you, you may think, well, you know, 90 minutes is like you get all this information and then what um you are invited after that to be part of, you know, we do monthly group coaching, one on one, you know, coaching sessions with our staff, everything is free of charge. We have a donate what you give, what you can or what you want kind of model because what we want at the end of the day is to have more people engaged in, in, in giving.

[00:30:55.13] spk_0:
Are you finding community foundations are sometimes supporting these giving circles or, or spon sponsoring or encouraging

[00:32:14.35] spk_2:
these uh great question too. So a lot of um there’s a lot of giving circles that are, that are hosted by community foundations um because, you know, uh to in order to manage donations, right? A lot of giving circles are part of a community foundation. They are a program of, of a community foundation or hosted by them, like fiscally sponsored by a community foundation. Many community found nations have seen the, you know, the benefit of having given circles when they are trying to also grow and strengthen that ecosystem around them, right in their community, many very tiny community foundations when there is not like a big culture of philanthropy in their community find that starting giving circles, it’s a great way to, you know, to attract people and to teach them around philanthropy. And also for a lot of community foundations when they are trying to diversify their, you know, the their, their community of, of donors and, and people that participate in other programs. So we also offer a program for community foundations for Jewish Federations for any faith, you know, uh based organization or philanthropic um intermediary that’s called launch pad for hosts. And that one, we offer it once a year. So it’s uh it’s usually in February and it’s like a six week um program.

[00:32:30.31] spk_0:
Oh, that’s more extensive. OK. But

[00:32:32.19] spk_2:
yes, yes, because we go through everything and, and you know, even the, the, the what we want is a win-win situation for the host organization and the giving circle. So there’s, you know, a lot of nuances there.

[00:32:58.48] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah. More extensive for the host. Yeah. Organizations. Um, are you finding many gifts to individuals? Like, maybe it’s a, maybe it’s an artist or, uh, you know, or, or a startup nonprofit, you know, or someone who wants to start a nonprofit. But they’re, they’re not there yet. Are you finding many donations there?

[00:33:49.79] spk_2:
More and more? And actually that is something that changed during the pandemic, right? Because when we saw a lot of mutual aid societies, you know, popping up um a lot of giving circles uh so that, ok, you know, we are giving to nonprofits. Yes, but we also want to give to individuals. Um There is a great network of giving circles that it’s called the Awesome Foundation. Um and the Awesome Foundation gives $1000 at a time to awesome projects and most of those projects, they are individuals and, and, and leaders and initiatives. So the money gets moved really fast and, and they have chapters all over the US. Um And Canada,

[00:35:06.26] spk_0:
I could see how this would be such a boost to that. You suggested, you know, giving uh creating a AAA giving culture in a, in a small town or, you know, or, or, or diversifying. These are, these are points you just made, I’m just amplifying them, you know, uh encouraging folks of color to come together. Uh I know from your TED talk, you know, there are, there are uh uh there are, there are uh Pacific Asian Pacific Islander giving circles. There are Black giving circles. There’s all around all kinds of faiths. You, you mentioned Judaism. Yeah. Uh Your TED talk I think mentions Muslim Muslim giving circles. Um So, you know, bringing people together in the, in the community and of course, you know, it could be nationwide too. You had said, you know, your point earlier about the, the, the being the virtual possibility. But, but I love the idea of bringing folks together in the community because they, because they know what, you know, they want, they know what the needs are, they, they, and, and, and we’re all gonna have to sacrifice a little bit. But in the end, we all come together for where each of our, like each of our individual giving circles intersects with everybody else’s giving c individual giving circle. And that’s where the, that’s where the larger giving circle is giving at the intersection of all our individual circles.

[00:37:53.85] spk_2:
Totally. And also, you know, I feel that the, the, one of the most important parts of giving circles is that giving circles function as seat, you know, seed funders for a lot of small grassroots nonprofits, right? So that those small, you know, local nonprofits that are, you know, totally invisible from big philanthropy. They may get some money here and there from small, you know, local businesses, they get, you know, some individual donors. But a giving circle is that kind of, you know, seed funder for different projects. And then many small nonprofits lever touch that because if they, you know, they have been supported by a giving circle for a couple of years, they can go to a foundation and said, hey, you know, by the way, this and this given circle has been supporting us, it’s like a seal of approval too, right? And also, you know, something that I wanted to mention that I feel that it’s key, more and more nonprofits are just focusing on the big gifts and I get it. You know, I’m, I’m a fundraiser. So I know that sometimes you think like, ok, there are 24 hours on the day, you know, or we need to, I need to focus on, on the big gift instead of the little gifts, right? But that I think it’s a mistake and why is that we need as nonprofits, we need to diversify our funding because what is going to happen when you’re a big gift, changes, you know, changes uh their mind and you are going and there that big gift is not going to come and you are in trouble if you take the time to really create a big number of supporters, a big ecosystem of everyday givers around your organization, you, you know that that is, that has a ripple effect and it’s going to be great in the future, you know, every time people come and say well you know give in circles. Yeah, they’re cute. No, we’re not cute. It’s we’re awesome. We’re really powerful because you know, engaging, especially younger, the younger generations, right? If you get people, young people passionate about your cause that young person in 10 years, in 20 years, that may be you know, the new whatever whatever entrepreneur, the director of ex corporation and we and but we we need to start somewhere, right? So telling everybody to focus on everyday givers is key,

[00:38:10.64] spk_0:
this is empowerment, you know, this is, this is what, what we’re doing. Uh nonprofit radio, big nonprofit ideas for the the other 95% this is who you’re talking about. Because 88% of the gifts go to 5% of the nonprofit. So we’re talking to the same audience, the other 95% are having to split up 12% of all the, of all the formalized giving and, and, and institutional giving and we’re, we’re trying to democratize here.

[00:38:41.02] spk_2:
Yeah. And also, you know, for, for the fabric of our society, I feel like because again, like if we, if we keep telling people that can donate $50.20 dollars, uh you know, your gift is not important.

[00:38:48.89] spk_0:
That that’s terrible, that’s terrible practice.

[00:39:01.10] spk_2:
Uh Yeah, because you know, they will come, you know, the bill the next billion or to, to give the billions and decide what is worthy of funding. It’s bad because then we have people that are not going to be engaged in giving and in generosity and in volunteering and that is dangerous for a country.

[00:40:52.87] spk_0:
I could take it a step further. And, you know, because my work is planned giving fundraising and I am routinely saying to clients and to folks that I’m training in webinars that you’re small donors that are consistent that you. Uh and I don’t care if the average gift I’ll give even smaller than you. I don’t care if their average gift is $5. But if they’ve been doing that for many years, like eight gifts out of 10 years or for some nonprofits, it could be 20 gifts in 15 or 20 years. But the, but at a, at a smaller dollar level, they are a terrific prospect for a planned gift because they’re always thinking about you and sometimes maybe multiple times in one year. It’s not even just a single single gift in per year. But those small dollar donors are your, are your very, very good plan giving prospects. Of course, your wealthy donors are too. We’re not excluding them naturally. But, but those small dollar donors who give consistently and do it over many years, they become your planned giving donors and the average, the average gift in a will in the US is $35,000. Nobody, nobody leaves $5 in their will. So, uh so it’s all the, all the more important to be cultivating and encouraging small dollar donors. You know, and some people like to say, modest gifts. I, I, you know, I just say they’re small and, and we’re not commenting on the person’s character, they’re not small people, they just give small gifts. Uh so call it what it is small gift, but they are still, they are still valuable and you’re absolutely right in the future, they can become very, very different types of donors. And my point is they could become very good planned giving donors

[00:41:04.37] spk_2:
totally, totally. And also, you know, for me giving circles are again this like a civic engagement, incubators for sure. Yeah.

[00:41:10.87] spk_0:
Yeah,

[00:41:27.15] spk_2:
civic engagement, incubators, people that participate in giving circles, I mean, there is research behind it that people tend to give more even, I mean, in the given circle and then outside the giving circle and they tend to participate more civically, you know, being part of their neighborhood association, being part of the PT A being part, you know, and that’s what we want, we need engaged people, we cannot, you know, deal in this time with, you know, people just looking at their phones and that’s it.

[00:42:08.78] spk_0:
Yeah. No, they, you’re right, engagement, community engagement, civic engagement. You’ve got me thinking about, so we’re talking about giving circles and planned giving. I’m thinking, what about planned Giving circles? I don’t know if there’s something that I don’t know. Well, but planned giving is all individual like, it’s my, you know, it will be based on my will or my life insurance. But we’d have to think about a way to for there to be a collective planned gift.

[00:42:47.93] spk_2:
But you know what you might be on something because for example, we could start planned, like, and this could be great for nonprofits around, you know, a specific, like maybe ethnicity or faith or, you know, a specific issue. It’s like you may like those board members or those, you know, recurrent um donors, right? Like they can become part of like a learning community, like a given circle and they can be a pledge, right? They can be kind of like a pledge of a, right? They, they

[00:43:27.20] spk_0:
could be that they each make their own commitment but again, they’re, they’re coming together to support the community and to learn together and share ideas together and then they each make their own, their own commitment. But there’s, there’s still the, there’s still the collectivism of, of a giving circle just that the, the, the, the the ultimate gifts are, you know, I’m, I’m doing, I’m doing this one and or maybe they would come together and say, you know, we love this cause. Well, I’m gonna, I’m gonna devote some of my estate, my, some of my will 5% or 2% to this cause and let’s all do it together. I mean, there, there could be that it could be that kind of collectivism too. So I have to think planned giving circles. I don’t write off that idea that, no, no, no,

[00:43:31.15] spk_2:
no, no, no, no, I’m going to actually think more about

[00:43:52.34] spk_0:
plan giving circles. Yeah, we should, we should talk more about that. Um, all right. What about other nonprofits? So, we, we talked about community foundations and how they could be enablers and hosts and sponsors but other nonprofits. Um, I mean, they could, they, you could encourage giving circles in your community. You could try to find the giving circles that are in your community already and maybe reach out to them. What, what, what do you see as the overlap between nonprofits and giving circles?

[00:46:27.32] spk_2:
Totally. So what we have seen is, you know, different nonprofits in, in a certain community working together, right? To create like, you know, again, what you want is to create a strong ecosystem of donors, right? So it’s not about competition, but maybe collaboration with other nonprofits. Um There are nonprofits that are starting giving circles to support their own nonprofit, right? And you may be thinking well, but then it’s not really a very, you know, traditional giving circle because they’re, the group is not deciding uh between different organizations. Yes. And they may be deciding among different projects. So there are some nonprofits that have different projects and they create given circles or donor circles inside, you know, their, their community. And uh and each, you know, each circle will support different projects inside the nonprofit. Um Also, um I mean, again, it’s a really uh uh some organizations, uh the way that, that the way that we have seen it is they’re starting giving circles, like, for example, if they have scholarships, right, uh if they are giving scholarships, but the scholarship uh amount is too large for a single donor. Well, you know, they are encouraging their, their community to create these giving struggles and kind of, you know, give together one scholarship. Um Yes, but, you know, we get uh we get uh calls from many nonprofits because yes, it is a very good way to, to create um this strong, you know, group of supporters because I am going to tell you that a given circle member is not your regular donor is, you know, is someone that is not passive, they are not going to send a check and call it a day. They will be a lot more involved and they will advocate a lot more. So that is, you know, that is the beauty of, of it. Um for some nonprofits, maybe they say my God, no, I don’t want to, you know, to love these people engaging. Um but for, for a lot of nonprofits, it’s something that is, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s working and we actually, because we get so many um calls from different nonprofits. Uh One of our projects for this summer is to tweak one of our programs, the one that we offer for community foundations, but tailor it for small and medium size nonprofits.

[00:46:48.44] spk_0:
So you have launch pad, you have launch pad training uh for like host, host training for small and midsize nonprofits.

[00:46:54.35] spk_2:
We will have it, we will have it in the fall. We’re working on it this summer to just like tweak the curriculum and we will have it in the fall. Ok.

[00:47:03.99] spk_0:
Ok. Uh What have I not asked you about that? Uh that you wanna, you want folks to know?

[00:50:05.79] spk_2:
Well, also, you know, we at philanthropy together um we are this umbrella organization and we work with all the networks of giving circles. So there are many, many networks of giving circles around the globe and here in the US. Um So, for example, you know, we talked about uh the faith based giving uh networks, right? The American Muslim Community Foundation amplifier, which is uh a net work of uh giving circles based on Jewish values. There are many networks of giving circles based on ethnicity. So the community investment network is around black and people of color given circles. Uh A PP uh Asian American Pacific Islanders in Philanthropy has uh given circles. Uh the Latino Community Foundation. Um they are political given circles. So um future now has a network of hundreds of political given circles. Um The women’s Given circles, there are many networks of women’s given struggles. So, Fios is a very strong one that, you know, encompasses thousands and thousands of women giving uh together women rights is another network of women’s giving circles that the donors are based in the US, but they give internationally. Um There is also 100 who care Alliance, which has hundreds of chapters. And the model is very easy to follow because it is 100 people given $100 every quarter. So they give, you know, at least $10,000 every quarter. And there are groups of only women, only men coed teenagers, we have seen a lot of teen of groups of teenagers giving together. So, you know, anyway, there’s many, many given circle networks that also if, if people can want to start a giving circle, I encourage everybody to look at the networks because they offer you, you know, support webinars community around the the different, you know, ethnicity or faith or, you know, values, right. Right. And the other thing I think the last thing will be that um this year we’re super excited because uh we added kind of a a second focus around collective giving. So we focused the first few years just on giving circles. Now we’re working also with collaboratives, so collaborative funds. Uh and these, you know, it’s groups of individual donors or institutional funders that get together to tackle the specific costs, right. And these collaboratives, they move from, you know, a million, a couple of million dollars to hundreds of million of million of millions. So we’re excited to, to be working with them too and, and, you know, kind of creating a community and a space for them to learn from one another.

[00:50:18.23] spk_0:
Some of those are, are combinations of individual and institutional funders. Yes. Oh, interesting.

[00:50:30.52] spk_2:
All right. Yes. Yes. Like for example, you know, Ted has the audacious audacious project and they um this year they granted $1 billion to 10 organizations and the donors are a combination of um individual donors or families and a couple of institutional donors. Yeah.

[00:51:09.34] spk_0:
Mm mm All right. Why don’t you just leave us with uh some, some uh inspiration around giving circles, some something positive. Uh Even if you’re just repeating something we’ve already said leave folks with uh something, something upbeat and, and empowering.

[00:51:29.71] spk_2:
Yes. OK. So don’t, don’t think of, you know, don’t think too much. It’s not rocket science like people, it’s not rocket science just do it. It’s, it’s a lot of fun and I feel that it’s also why, you know, uh people gravitate around giving circles because it’s a lot of fun. It’s, you know, is, is social, is community and we know that, you know, the issues and the problems of this world are overwhelming and huge giving should be joyful, the act of giving should be joyful and giving together is joyful. So, yeah, and you know, for whatever you need, reach out to us, you know, engage with us and, and thank you tony for, for having me,

[00:52:44.45] spk_0:
Sarah. She’s uh ceo of philanthropy together at philanthropy together dot org. Check out the uh launch pad training, whether you’re starting a uh whether you’re a starting on your own or your uh community foundation or, and then for the host training and then in the fall, there’ll be something for small and midsize nonprofits and the ongoing training all at uh all at philanthropy together dot org. And uh Sarah is at Sarah underscore lo Mein. Sarah. Thank you very much for sharing all this. I I love it. Thank you for, for your expertise. Thanks for your energy. Thanks for what you’re doing to empower communities and individuals to come together. Thank you very much.

[00:52:49.27] spk_2:
Thank you so much, tony and yes, you know, I’m going to put my arms like you put it because yes, thank you.

[00:53:06.56] spk_1:
Next week, leadership lessons with Steve Johns on his new book. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I’d beseech

[00:53:10.52] spk_0:
you find it at tony-martignetti dot com.

[00:53:28.73] spk_1:
We’re sponsored by Donor box with intuitive fundraising software from donor Boxx. Your donors give four times faster helping you help others. Donor Boxx dot org. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I’m your associate producer Kate martignetti. The show social media is by Susan Chavez, Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by Scott Stein.

[00:53:45.68] spk_0:
Thank you for that affirmation. Scottie be with us next week for nonprofit radio, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for July 24, 2023: 650th Show!

 

Claire Meyerhoff, Kate Martignetti, Scott Stein, Gene Takagi, Amy Sample Ward & Jena Lynch: 650th Show!

It’s Nonprofit Radio’s 650th show and 13th Anniversary. To celebrate, co-host Claire Meyerhoff shares her “13 Pro Tips & Top Tactics for Nonprofit Podcasts.” We have our associate producer, Kate Martignetti, live music from Scott Stein, and our contributors Gene Takagi (law), and Amy Sample Ward (technology), are also on board. Jena Lynch from our sponsor Donorbox joins us. It’s fun and music and celebration! And gratitude.

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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
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[00:00:38.61] spk_0:
And welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. It’s mid July. We’ve got the live music and that can only mean one thing. It’s our 650th show and 13th anniversary celebration, jubilee anniversary celebration. Welcome. Welcome to the 650th show. Here’s our associate producer, Kate with a little known fact about your favorite abdominal podcast that needs to be more widely known.

[00:00:53.20] spk_1:
Tony-martignetti non profit radio is in the top 1.5% of the 3.14 million podcasts worldwide. We’ll talk more about that shortly.

[00:01:03.41] spk_0:
Yes, we will. And Kate, what’s happening today for the 650th?

[00:01:35.35] spk_1:
Your co host today is Claire Meyerhoff and Claire has brought her 13 pro tips and top tactics for nonprofit podcasts. We’ve got much more live music from Scott Stein. Our contributors, Gene Takagi and Amy Sample Ward are here and Jenna Lynch from our sponsor Donor box will drop in. It’s fun and music and celebration and gratitude. We’re sponsored by Donor Box with intuitive fundraising software from donor box. Your donors give four times faster helping you help others. Donor box dot org.

[00:01:49.20] spk_0:
Thank you. Thank you very much, Kate Claire Meyerhoff. It’s so good to see you. Welcome. Welcome,

[00:01:53.23] spk_2:
tony-martignetti. Thank you so much for having me on your 650th show. That’s an amazing accomplishment. It’s

[00:02:23.66] spk_0:
always a pleasure. Every July I look forward to this and every year joining and everybody else joining the very first show was July 16th in 2010 and you were on the second show, July 23rd. Absolutely. Yes. How are you doing? What’s, what’s going on in the

[00:02:50.13] spk_2:
world? I’m, I’m doing very well. I would say that the um my professional highlight of the year after of course, being on tony-martignetti non profit radio was that I attended um my most favorite plan giving conference in the universe, which is the Carolinas Planned Giving conference at Canoga, the North Carolina and South Carolina Council’s put on this great um meeting in the mountains of North Carolina. And this year I was invited to do a keynote with my podcast partner, Cathy Sheffield. And we instead of doing like a keynote thing, we came up with a panel. So we did, we were, we called it the 2023 Canoga keynote panel, the Secure Act 2.0 and how it impacts fundraising. So we had a nice little panel of experts and I asked them questions and we think it was pretty popular

[00:03:15.00] spk_0:
in North Carolina. I didn’t know

[00:03:16.92] spk_2:
no I’m not, I’m not in North Carolina. Traveled there.

[00:03:27.73] spk_0:
I know, I know. I know. I know you traveled to North Carolina. You delivered. I didn’t know I would have come. You were in the mountains. I’m at the beach. It’s a little, it’s a little far,

[00:03:30.63] spk_2:
about 350 miles apart. But next time I will

[00:03:34.64] spk_0:
350 miles between friends. Come on. Alright. Alright. The mountains, the mountains of North Carolina are beautiful.

[00:03:41.41] spk_2:
They certainly are. They certainly are.

[00:03:44.52] spk_0:
And, uh, you have, uh, you brought some, some wisdom with you for your 13 pro tips and top tactics. I did non profit podcast.

[00:04:09.35] spk_2:
Yes, I did because I get asked this question a lot about podcasting because my background is in radio and then I currently, you know, host and produce my own podcast and, you know, really been around the block with all this and there’s a lot of, um, I’ve, I have a lot of wisdom I think to impart to anyone, a nonprofit, considering launching a podcast. It’s a very big undertaking and, or if you have an existing podcast, some things that might help you. So I hope that everybody learns from my 13 pro tips and top tactics for nonprofit podcasts.

[00:04:29.20] spk_0:
I’m sure I’m sure they will. I’m sure we will. Uh, we’re gonna get to them. Let’s bring in Scotty, Scott Stein, Brooklyn, New York. How are you?

[00:04:38.30] spk_3:
I’m great. How are you, tony?

[00:04:40.36] spk_0:
My pleasure. I’m well, Thank you. Thanks for joining on the 6/50. Thank you very

[00:04:44.15] spk_3:
much. Thank you. Glad to be here. This is always a highlight for me. And every time I tell people about this podcast, I said, boy, you know, he’s got 550 episodes. Oh, my goodness. Well, no, this time it’s 600 nickel. I’ve almost, I’ve lost track of the hundreds at this point.

[00:05:22.04] spk_0:
You’re so thoughtful. Thank you. Yeah. No, it’s a, it’s a long run. It just, you know, I, I, somebody was, I was on someone else’s podcast and they were, they were saying, well, you know, such a long run. I say, I told them that I latch onto things that I learned and then I just keep doing them. So I don’t have to learn something new. I just, I just keep doing the same thing 650 times. It’s very freeing. I don’t have to learn something else.

[00:05:30.29] spk_3:
Right. But you learn as you go and you, and you find new wrinkles and, and even though your, you, you say that it feels the same, but like you, you obviously bring a different energy to every episode and you find ways to keep it interesting and keep your listeners engaged, keep them coming back. It’s really, really pretty remarkable.

[00:06:09.85] spk_0:
Well, that’s because we have great guests and, uh, and two of the great guests that are recurring guests, they’re not recurring guests. That’s the wrong. That’s the wrong appellation. They are contributors and of course, I’m talking about Gene Takagi and Amy Sample Ward. Welcome, Jean. How are you?

[00:06:12.22] spk_4:
I’m doing great, honored to be here on your anniversary, tony. Um It’s been a wonderful resource for the nonprofit sector and I agree. Absolutely great guest, myself, not included but everybody else, great guest and a very witty but deeply thoughtful host. So, thank you.

[00:06:52.17] spk_0:
Thank you. All right, that’s we, I try to keep it entertaining. You know, we’re where we want to work in the intersection of value for non, for small and midsize nonprofits and entertainment. And I think there is a space in there where we can, it can be light and still valuable. Absolutely. Amy Sample Ward. Welcome.

[00:06:57.53] spk_5:
Hi. I’m excited that I could call in across time zones were really touching things

[00:07:02.23] spk_0:
today. Welcome from Warsaw Poland. Tell us why you’re there.

[00:07:06.69] spk_5:
I’m doing some training for the organization here around, you know, the usual how to use technology in this world for non profit work.

[00:07:20.05] spk_0:
You’re a Bosch. Uh You’re part of the Bosch Fellowship, is that right?

[00:07:28.74] spk_5:
Yeah, the Robert Bosch Academy. That’s not in Warsaw though, that is in Berlin, but just happened to be already being so close. It was easy to make the train ride over to Warsaw and do some training here.

[00:07:39.52] spk_0:
Where else have you been in Europe? Anywhere else besides home based Berlin?

[00:08:03.70] spk_5:
Well, many years ago before I started joining your podcast, um I lived in England and so we, uh, we went back to London and got to show our daughter around the city, um, for a week, a couple weeks ago. Yeah. But otherwise the summer in Berlin has been more than adequate to keep us

[00:08:08.45] spk_0:
busy. Your family is with you, Max and R and R with you. That’s wonderful for the, for the summer. And this is three, you’re doing this for three months. right? The whole summer.

[00:08:15.36] spk_5:
Yeah, I will have been here for three months. They didn’t come at the start, but

[00:08:19.27] spk_0:
okay. Okay, you’re there for June, July and August. Yeah, essentially. Alright. Alright, Jean, what’s going on with you? What’s, what’s happening in, in the Neo Law Group?

[00:08:43.88] spk_4:
Lots of stuff going on, of course, in our country right now. So we had the big affirmative action case come down the website web design case. So there’s lots of stuff coming from the Supreme Court and nonprofits trying to navigate it. So we’ve been staying busy, but I’ve got a road trip plan um to Vancouver with like three national parks or state parks along the way. So we’re really looking forward to that in about three weeks time.

[00:09:07.39] spk_0:
Wonderful time away. Excellent. Excellent. Let’s bring in Kate martignetti. She’s the newest member of the nonprofit radio family, our associate producer Kate martignetti. Kate. Welcome. How are you?

[00:09:18.79] spk_1:
I’m doing well. Thank you for having me.

[00:09:21.34] spk_0:
Absolutely. Glad to have you. And I realized that before we got started, I neglected to introduce you to any sample ward when they joined. So I was gonna

[00:09:31.46] spk_5:
say I see a interesting last name pair on this call.

[00:09:37.84] spk_0:
Yeah. It’s quite a coincidence. It’s quite a coincidence, isn’t it? The way I found the, I found tony-martignetti non profit radio. So I just, you know, became the aptly named host and then there’s this Kate martignetti who happened to wander along. So, so I brought her in. So Kate meet Amy, Amy, meet Kate.

[00:09:58.00] spk_5:
Now,

[00:10:01.52] spk_2:
of course,

[00:10:40.85] spk_0:
it is my kid is my niece. She’s just, just recently graduated from and to the Academy of Musical and know the American Musical and Dramatic Academy in New York City. She just so she’s professionally trained and I was happy to bring her on. We, we, we did something together on a Lark because I was at their home. They live in South Southern New Jersey. And, uh I thought, well, I have a professionally trained person and I have to do a show while I’m at your house. So let’s bring her in. And, uh, I love the way I love the way she sounded. And, uh, so now she’s in

[00:11:04.97] spk_5:
permanently. I wouldn’t believe that you were not related because every once in a while I’ll meet someone and you know, will be at some event and we’re sat at the same table and we both have the last name sample and we are not related. So it can happen. You can have a not super common name and not be related, but glad to know that you really are. I’m excited that you’re doing a fun cross generational project together. Like non profit radio. That’s true.

[00:11:13.99] spk_0:
I never even, I never even thought of. That’s true. Even we brought in another generation. Absolutely. Right. You can

[00:11:21.29] spk_5:
learn from you. Tell me it’s a legacy and learn from,

[00:11:30.65] spk_0:
we brought in a Gen Z which we did not have. All right. All right. Okay. Just, you know, we’re all talking around you and about you. Uh What’s going on? What are you doing this summer since you graduated from AMD?

[00:11:40.69] spk_1:
Um Well, obviously working with you every Thursday, you know, to record and put out something for your show

[00:11:48.88] spk_0:
highlight of your week. Of course, naturally, my

[00:12:32.94] spk_1:
favorite part of the week um getting to call my uncle. Um I was hoping to start working at a local theater. Um But I mean, I think you’ve heard about like the Sag Aftra strike. Um So, although I could definitely still work at local theaters, it seems that most actors aren’t. I mean, even me, I don’t know if I want to go, even though it’s my passion to be on stage, I want to support my um my union even though I’m not a part of SAG and also support the writers who are putting out beautiful pieces for us to work on. So I’m kinda, you know, I’m okay doing voiceover work for now and then hopefully when things cool over when Sag and the writers get what they deserve and then I’ll hopefully get back on stage.

[00:13:02.92] spk_0:
I admire your commitment to the, to the labor movement. Absolutely. Even though you’re not a member, it’s important. It’s important. All right, I’m glad you’re with us. I love working with you. Every Yes, every Thursday night we, we produced the show for the following Monday. Um Claire, why don’t you, uh why don’t you kick us off with a couple of your uh pro top tips tactics. Everybody’s, everybody’s chomping to, to hear these. I can, I can see this. A couple of people are holding up signs, you know, where’s Clay

[00:13:19.14] spk_2:
tips? I know Al Roker was just, you know, on my shoulder,

[00:13:24.56] spk_0:
nobody’s got signs but nobody put in the chat, but we’re all interested still. So let’s kick off what’s, what’s some, a number one pro

[00:14:34.44] spk_2:
tip? We have 13, 13 tips coming up. And the first, the first pro tips and top tactics. 12 and three are all about giving important consideration to the why the what and the who of your nonprofits podcast. So the first one is why have a podcast. Should you have a podcast? Because the, your board chair is like, we need to have a podcast or your executive director is like, put me on a podcast. No, that’s not the reason to have a podcast the reason to have non profit podcast is to highlight all the wonderful people and work of your mission. So that’s really important. That’s why I have a podcast. And there’s some other reasons too. If you have a podcast, you’re gathering content in a new way. So let’s say you interview someone for your podcast and then a couple of months later you’re doing your newsletter. Well, gee you’ve got all this content on, on tape. I still like to use the word tape that you can go back to and it’s a great way to, to capture content. Tony. Do you have anything to add to my first tip about why I have a podcast? Yeah,

[00:17:04.75] spk_0:
you certainly you’re right. You know, you want to center your mission. What, what, what work do you do? Who do you do it for um you know, mission uh mission centered, right? You’re not, you don’t want to go off like I did once and have a podcast on fermentation because in, in my, in my early days, I thought, well, we’ll just have, we’ll do some occasional off topic shows. And so I brought somebody on. He’s still, he’s still well known, I think in the fermentation community, his, his name is Sandor Katz, but he used to go by Sandor Kraut because sauerkraut is a popular fermented food. So I interviewed Sandor Kraut and uh it was okay about, about halfway through. I was realizing this is really this really does not belong on non profit radio. And uh Claire agreed more effusively than I just stated it. But so she was pretty adamant that and I had another one lined up to um I was going to do uh I had another one, Santa Claus, I was going to interview a professional Santa Claus. So I don’t know, you know, I was just thinking, alright, I thought, well, nonprofit professionals are varied in their interests. But what I didn’t realize in the moment when I made the decision to bring Sander on was that they can pursue those other interests through other podcasts that I was, I was lacking that in my thinking. So I brought Sander on. It’s uh it was an early show, I don’t know, many, many years ago in the first year or two, I think something like that. Um Anyway, that’s all to say, center your mission. Our mission here is small and midsize nonprofits. There will be no more fermentation shows. I’m not going to bring the professional Santa Claus on. He was disappointed too. I, I and I felt bad, I’m letting Santa Claus down, you know, you feel bad about that. I mean, the man makes his living uplifting Children and here I am telling him, you know, I I wanted you on the show, but now you can’t come. So I felt bad about dissing Santa, but it had to be done for the, for the good of the mission. That’s the whole point. Uh Claire Center, your mission in your, in your

[00:18:47.72] spk_2:
podcast. Well, and that’s tip number two. Is that what is your podcast about? Really? What is the, what is the, what of your podcast? And it’s not about your executive director’s ego. It’s not about fermentation unless you’re the National Fermentation Association. Um Your, your podcast again is about your mission. And so that’s, that’s what it is about. And then number three, in the first or first little group, who is your ideal listener. And this one I think is really, really important because pretty much every nonprofit organization I’ve worked with or help them with the podcast, I say, well, who is your ideal listener? And they go, oh the general public, we want everybody to listen and that’s, that is really, you’re really off base with that because unless you’re maybe like, you know, an animal rescue um podcast and you give like tips for heatwave with dogs and stuff. Like people will find that podcast and listen to it. If you’re the Humane Society or something, that’s a helpful podcast to a lot of people. But in general, um the who is going to listen to your podcasts are going to be your most engaged people. So they might be board members, they might be longtime volunteers and they’re your longtime donors and supporters that really care about your mission. And I think the litmus test a little bit is for choosing your audience. If after listening to this podcast, would that person, would that donor feel more inclined to include your non profit in their will or other estate plans? Does the content of your podcast make them feel like they’re, you know, they’re getting good inside information that, that your nonprofits, good stewards of donation that the people who work there are really, you know, doing, doing good work. And so I think that’s the who your ideal listener is. It’s that really close, close group of people. It’s not some big, vast general audience that’s going to find you on, on Spotify. If you’re, you know, a local podcast, say in Detroit about homelessness. So interesting

[00:19:18.77] spk_0:
how you bring in, you bring in a Planned Giving litmus test. Would you said after listening, would people include you in their will? Oh, that’s a pretty high, that’s a pretty high bar.

[00:20:30.59] spk_2:
Well, it’s, it’s, you know, you’re, you’re speaking directly to a long time, you know, loyal donor who’s been giving to you maybe for 20 years, maybe $10 a year. And that’s your, your typical, you know, really good plan giving prospect. And so I do like to use that as a litmus test. And then another thing is you can, you know, put a little, like I call them commercials, but you can put a little recorded PS A or something or you can read it like Kate does read it, read it live and you could have a PS A about plan giving at your organization, right? So you can talk about that about your legacy society and how people can, you know, get more information, you know, put in your URL for your Plan giving dot org hashtag or slash legacy or whatever. So I think that that is a good um litmus test about what your content should be. Now, it shouldn’t be like deep in the woods like, oh, let’s talk about rates for charitable gift annuities. It wouldn’t be that right. But it would be other things that when someone is listening to your podcast, they’re like, wow, you know, this is really there. I really agree with this. This is really great. I’m happy, I’m proud to be a supporter of this, of this organization. Okay.

[00:20:31.67] spk_0:
Okay. And you’re, of course, the PSAs could be any related to anything planned giving or become a monthly sustainer. But of course, you don’t want to get, you don’t want to get carried away either with promoting giving or volunteering

[00:20:56.17] spk_2:
111 little spot, you know, one little spot. It’s kind of like, I used to be a traffic reporter, right? And at the end of the traffic, you know, my traffic report I’d say, and you know, traffic is brought to you by Ledo Pizza. Ledo Pizza is square because Ledo Pizza never cuts corners. That’s a 12th little spot, right? So

[00:21:08.13] spk_0:
D

[00:21:34.79] spk_2:
C, this is, this is a mixed 107.3 the ABC, um, CHR station in, in DC where I did the traffic for a while. Yeah. So those little there, you know, those little 12th spots and really they’re really valuable. That’s a great, you know, you could just put that at the end of your, at your nonprofit podcast interested in leaving a legacy to help animals visit blah, blah, blah slash

[00:21:36.75] spk_0:
legacy. I’m more interested in Ledo pizza, never cutting corners. So the

[00:21:40.89] spk_2:
Pizza Square because pizza never cuts corners.

[00:21:43.69] spk_0:
Pizza Square. So they did Sicilian Pizza. Of course, of course, you wouldn’t cut the corners. The corner is the best part you want.

[00:21:52.28] spk_2:
And someone wrote that and it was, you know, read on all the radio stations. And

[00:22:14.24] spk_0:
I think that’s a brilliant line. Never cut corners, never cut corners, right? I saw what I saw something on a, uh, this was, uh, an electric company, there was a truck, it was something like Gans are electric. Let us check your shorts. And I thought that was great tag line. That’s

[00:22:34.18] spk_2:
a really, that’s a really great tag line. Years ago, I helped judge a nonprofit tagline contest, a national one. And, and you know, the classic best example of, of a, a tagline would be, um, oh, my train of thought just went. But anyhow, I think of it

[00:22:37.16] spk_0:
later.

[00:22:39.48] spk_2:
I know maybe there’s a little pizza foundation and I could help them start a planned giving program.

[00:22:50.25] spk_0:
Alright. I would like to work with you on that. I would like to work with you on that. Alright. You wanna you wanna give us one more tip in this, in this little block of tips?

[00:24:06.19] spk_2:
Sure. Those were my first three tips. The why what and who are your podcast? And then my next group is production, making it happen. How do you make it happen? And we’ll talk about more later But the first one would be this tip number four, who is going to do the heavy lifting a podcast is a lot of work and who in your organization is going to take on this long term commitment. It’s just not just one little thing that you do one weekend and you forget it and it needs to be someone who is super excited about doing this podcast, someone who learns quickly, someone who’s tech Savvy, perhaps like Kate martignetti, someone who’s test tech savvy, they could, they could run your podcast and that’s really important like who’s gonna do the work because in a lot of cases, a nonprofit podcast has one person doing all the work there, the host there, the producer, they book the guests, they record it and they edit it, they make it an MP three, they put it up on Buzz Sprout or their other host and they do it also. If you have this one person that’s super excited about doing the podcast with some skills that’s really, um that it’s really, really, really important

[00:24:08.71] spk_0:
and I agree with you that they should be excited about it. Not, well, all right. You know, okay, if you’re gonna add it to my, to do list,

[00:24:18.60] spk_2:
which is usually how it

[00:24:50.75] spk_0:
Right. Right. You gotta be because, because it is a lot of work and you want somebody who’s motivated, you know, he’s got some, got some passion about it, you know, really is interested in taking on that, that heavy lifting that you described because, because it takes time, it does take time. All right, Claire, cool. Thank you. We were going to revisit the through the, through the show. And, uh I just, uh at this point, I want to bring in uh our resident musician from Brooklyn New York, Scott Stein, Scott’s gonna, Scott’s gonna do a song for us a new day. Tell us about the song

[00:24:57.57] spk_3:
Scott. I think the song is, it’s mostly about fermentation.

[00:25:04.09] spk_0:
So its mission centric, who sent us the mission of the show?

[00:25:08.24] spk_3:
I wasn’t sure if too much time had elapsed, maybe your listeners may have forgotten about that section. Um

[00:25:13.33] spk_0:
No, that was, that was, that was a bona fide callback. Cool.

[00:25:48.55] spk_3:
Cool. It’s not about that. I think the song is rather new. So I think it is about kind of just finding your way through the, you know, the challenges in life and trying to, to stay centered, which is, I think something that’s easier said, than done for most of us myself included. By the way, there might be, some, might get some sound effects. It’s just sort of thunder storming here in Brooklyn. So, uh, so if you hear that, hopefully it’ll be just like right in rhythm. Okay.

[00:25:57.12] spk_0:
That’s how we know we’re live thunder in the background. We don’t, we don’t, we don’t take that out. All right, Scott Stein, a new day

[00:29:10.31] spk_6:
at the moment with soldiers and guards. Even there never had a plan and, and a half empty bed thinking maybe that’s where I should have stayed time. Yeah. Yeah. What speed? Mhm Yeah. Now I’m stuck. Mm As far as the eye can see from the valley to the top of

[00:29:15.32] spk_3:
the ridge.

[00:30:10.30] spk_6:
Hurry up, steady but slow. The arms of the got some miles to go. Yeah. Yes, it is. Now

[00:30:25.64] spk_0:
Scott Stein, who beautiful Scott. That’s lovely. That’s a beautiful new song. A new day.

[00:30:32.10] spk_3:
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it. Absolutely. Doing some shows coming up. So it’s an impetus to get some new songs written and finished and out into the world. So, so there you go.

[00:30:57.33] spk_0:
Thank you for doing it. And we’ve got, we’ve got more. Scott’s gonna do a couple of other songs for us shortly. I want to bring in Jenna Lynch from our sponsor donor box, Jenna. First of all, am I saying your name correctly is Jenna or Gina?

[00:31:03.77] spk_7:
It’s Jenna. Good job

[00:31:05.52] spk_0:
welcome Jenna’s non profit. Advocate at our sponsor, Donor box, Jenna. Thank you for joining and thank you for donor boxes. Sponsorship of nonprofit radio.

[00:31:18.46] spk_7:
Well, thank you for having me. And congratulations. 650 shows. 13 years. That is uh incredible. That is just amazing. I’ve been a fan for a long time, so I’m really grateful to be a part of this and I didn’t know I was entering into a concert here. That was really cool.

[00:31:48.01] spk_0:
I see. You’ve got your branded T shirt on. Very, are your branded T shirt? You’re branded button down shirt? Yes, I’ve got the donut box shirt. Okay, wearing the swag. So, so Jenna tell us a little about donor box. I mean, this is, is used by 50,000 organizations worldwide. Uh 40,000 in the United States. What, what’s going on? What’s the formula at Donor Box that you’ve got 50,000 organizations worldwide using this?

[00:32:54.92] spk_7:
Yeah. Well, thank you for that question. So, at Donor Box, we are all about empowering nonprofits to make a difference. So we are a fundraising platform built with fundraisers for fundraisers. So our team, we’ve had our boots on the ground and we really inform what the product looks like because we understand the seasons of nonprofit and nonprofit pain points. So, so I think that’s one thing that really helps our nonprofit users really thrive. Um And something that I think also makes us stand out is that at the heart of our fundraising platform is something called the Ultra Swift donation form. So this is really a game changer um designed to reduce that donor drop off when they’re making a donation and it provides a really quick donation experience. That is we’ve timed this over four times faster than traditional donation forms because we all know that we want to go through the hassle of making that transaction, right? We

[00:33:06.95] spk_0:
say that on the show every week. Uh next donations four times faster. So good, cool. I was gonna ask you why our donations going four times faster. Alright, so, right. So it cuts down on drop off,

[00:33:35.53] spk_7:
it cuts down on drop off, which really makes a big difference because in today’s digital age, we are all about convenience. We’ve all we’re all donating on our phones were all using these digital wallets, right? So we don’t want to go through the hassle of plugging through the these long ugly tedious forms. So with our ultra swift pay folks can make a donation and uh you know, really quick time and that means that your nonprofit is getting that donation uh super fast as well. So um I think that’s a pretty big deal for folks

[00:33:53.22] spk_0:
and you have something new to the live kiosk, right? Donor Box Live Oscar. What is that about?

[00:34:57.03] spk_7:
Sure. Well, so that’s the perfect segway I think beyond our donation pages and forms, we offer a comprehensive suite of fundraising solutions. So it’s not just the forms and the pages. So from selling event tickets to engaging supporters through peer to peer campaigns, crowdfunding pages, text to give. Um we really offer a versatile uh set of fundraising solutions to cater to all needs. And one of those things is the donor box like chaos. This is something that we recently released and we’re seeing really great results from a nonprofit community. So it’s for those in person fundraising moments. So it’s um it really simplifies the process of collecting on site donations and on the spot donations using a tablet or card reader. So this kind of replaces that clunky box that you have at the front of your museum or at your brick and mortar, mortar, non profit people can and swipe tap or dip their card and give in a way that’s convenient for them and you can still engage those folks later. So instead of people just dropping five bucks into a box and you have no idea who did it. People will give through the live kiosk, they get a thank you and a receipt automatically and you can put those people into your fundraising cycle so that you can continue to nurture those relationships.

[00:35:21.20] spk_0:
So that’s for like Galas golf outings, auctions, things like this, anything, anything live and in person.

[00:35:29.26] spk_7:
Yes, exactly. It really is a great apply to

[00:35:34.51] spk_0:
all before you go leave us with one more thing you’d like, you’d like our listeners to know about uh donor box and let me thank you again for the donor box sponsorship. What what, what would you like would you like to leave us with?

[00:36:31.12] spk_7:
Sure. I think one final note, I think what truly sets donor box part is our team’s commitment to supporting the growth of our nonprofit users. So yes, we have all this awesome tech, but we truly believe in the human touch, right? Which is why we are a team of people that have had experience in the nonprofit sector are ourselves. So we provide a range of resources to help our nonprofit users. So our customer success team is totally amazing and dedicated to helping nonprofits succeed. And they provide this personalized support 24 hours a day, Monday through Friday and even offer weekend help as well. And beyond this, we offer fundraising coaching through a premium package, monthly, free webinars. And we have something called the Donor Box Academy to provide these really valuable guidance and knowledge and courses and resources all in one kind of tidy package. So we’re really here to walk alongside you throughout your fundraising journey. So again, balancing the tech with the human touch and making sure that you’re accomplishing your goals.

[00:37:01.22] spk_0:
Thank you, Jenna. Thank you. Thank you again for the donor box sponsorship, Jenna Lynch non profit. Thank you so much for having me at donor box. My pleasure. Thank you

[00:37:11.41] spk_5:
and Jenna. Thanks for being at the MTC this year

[00:37:14.51] spk_7:
of

[00:37:15.14] spk_5:
course

[00:38:43.55] spk_0:
so long, Jenna. All right. Uh Claire, you know, it’s something interesting. We’re clear we’re gonna talk about some, some, some more of the 13 pro tips and top tactics. But it’s just something interesting, you know, I, I asked Jenna was like, pronouncing her name right to me, Jen. A, you know, it’s just, it’s, it’s Jenna. That’s, that’s the only, that’s the only, to me that’s the only conceivable pronunciation. But when you bring in a second set of eyes or more like Kate as, as our associate producer, she asked me before we went live, is it Jenna or Gina? I thought, oh should, it could be Gina? It could be Gina. So you see the value of, of uh well, my, my brilliant niece, first of all, but a very close second to that the value of somebody else, you know, just another perspective. I mean, of course, it could be Gina but to me, there was no other way. Um So there is another way and having a different perspective on anything. Uh I’m getting a little prophetic now, a little little misty, you know, anything besides how to pronounce somebody’s name uh is valuable, a new perspective, fresh perspective. So give us some fresh perspective on, on nonprofit nonprofit podcasts. Let’s talk about a couple more. Shall be clear,

[00:39:55.18] spk_2:
let’s do a few more tips for, for good non profit podcasts. And so my tip number five is only let a few select hands touch this podcast. So this is not a project for a committee. You will never have a podcast. See the light of day when you have a committee to the podcast committee, the podcast committee is not a good thing. Really, one person can do the whole thing and then you might have two people involved. Let’s say you have someone that’s a host besides yourself or, or vice versa. So how have just a very, very few people involved in your podcast? Because one person really can do it all and one person can decide the format, they can book the guests, they can serve as host, they can record, they can edit, upload that final MP three and make sure that it, it gets fed to podcast providers like Spotify and, and I heart and all those, you know, there’s a whole sequence to this and then also like, where is this going to live on your website? So there’s a lot of back end stuff to, to doing your. So my, my tip number five is only let a few people touch the podcast. Number six is one person can do it all because I like to just really emphasize, emphasize that. And so we’re just, you know, moving, moving along. So

[00:40:37.33] spk_0:
I can, I can, I just can I meld those 25 and six. The only thing that I do have help with is on that back end. So, you know, your tip is just a few people and I do have help on the technical side, our web guy, Mark Silverman, uh, social media, Susan Chavez. So, you know, I produce an audio file every week and I put it someplace for, for Mark and then he puts it where the, the podcast platform crawlers will find it, Apple, Spotify, Google, etcetera. So, so, uh, so putting those two to get to tips together, I do have some help on the, on the back end. But I absolutely agree with you that one person can do. We could do all of it, but certainly one person could do the front side, all the guests and the ideas and the hosting and one person, you know, back back side.

[00:41:36.00] spk_5:
Do you remember real non profit life? If one person does it and that person leaves you no longer have a podcast because no one else in the organization knows where you upload the file to or how you recorded it or who the guest list was. So back declares very original point. A podcast is a long term commitment and that means, well, it does not, I absolutely agree. Technology of any time by committee usually never ever turned on. Um, but there needs to be some ability for folks to go on vacation and take some time off for folks to share knowledge may have backups. Um, because otherwise, you know, it’s similar reasons why you don’t have only one person in the organization that knows about the program and runs the program entirely by themselves. Otherwise your program or your service would end as soon as they left the organization.

[00:42:20.43] spk_2:
That’s an excellent point. And so it would be very, it would behoove you to create, you know, documents concerning the podcast, like if you have a format sheet or anything and, you know, share that with other people at the organization so that they are at least familiar with it. And, you know, another point would be too, if you just do a once a month, that’s really enough people, like, you know, tony has this massive commitment, right where he does it once a week. But it’s, it’s a, that’s a load of work. So for your nonprofit, once a month is fine, it really is. And you can just, you know, do it once a month that gives you plenty of time to get it, to get it all together. The

[00:44:00.85] spk_0:
only thing I would add to that is, uh before we bring in Scott because we got some music coming up from Scott very shortly. Uh The consistency is important. If you’re gonna do once a month, stick with once a month, don’t say, well, we’re gonna take the summer off. You know what? Because then the summer bleeds into the fall and your podcast collapses. People, people unsubscribe you. Consistency is key. If it’s gonna be whatever, it’s gonna be twice a month, once a month. If you’re gonna go for weekly. You know, that is a big lift. That’s an enormous lift for somebody who’s got a full time job to, um, just be consistent. Stick with it to Amy’s point. If you go on vacation, either pre record a show. So to cover yourself while you’re away or have somebody fill in for, you can certainly have a guest host. Uh, David Letterman had guest hosts and, uh, other people whose nighttime shows I don’t watch anymore. I still have guest hosts. I was gonna go to Johnny Carson with uh Joan Rivers, but that’s probably wasted on 98% of the audience. So. Exactly. Amy says, shaking your head. No. What’s that? Kate is like my, my, my, my 61 year old uncle. Right. Exactly. But you can have it, you can have a guest host, believe it, my, my examples, my, my dated examples aside, you can have a guest host. Keep with the consistency, right to, right to Claire’s Point and to, and to Amy’s point, we’re gonna, we’re gonna bring, well,

[00:44:21.48] spk_2:
I want to emphasize that when I talk about like having one person do it, that’s really mostly for the beginning to get this thing launched, right? Because it’s really hard to get things to get this podcast launched. But why once you have that podcast going, then after a couple of episodes, you could bring in a guest host and now that person is learning more and more. But I think the one person or a few hands is definitely right when you’re starting your podcast so you can, you know, get it done

[00:45:02.93] spk_0:
and absolutely. Absolutely. No committee, no committee. Okay. Let’s bring in Scott. I, uh, I requested Scott play a song that I love, love on his album. He introduced it for us last year on the 6/100 show Uphill. The album is Uphill and my favorite song on that album is a good life and I love that Scott. I’m, I guess I’m, I guess I’m supposed to let the musician talk about the show but I mean their song. But, but, but you know, you’re suffering a lackluster host, you all, all, all five of, you know, this. So, uh but, but, but I’m a fan so I’m sharing effusively, I love that. The album is Uphill, but the final song on the album is,

[00:45:55.17] spk_3:
thank you. I’m, I’m so glad you, first of all, thank you for requesting the song and taking such a careful listen. Yeah, the album is uh it’s definitely a moodier piece. Um I was my family that went through, give you the short version, but we were going through a lot. There was, we lost some dear family members and it was just a lot of turmoil and this record was kind of my way of, of um working through it. Uh But I needed to end on an uplifting note or some kind of some kind of joy even if its hard won and, and that’s where this song really came from. And so I’m happy to do it for you. Thank

[00:46:13.48] spk_0:
you, Scott. A good

[00:48:23.79] spk_6:
life. She’s been shot. Copy. So we’re reliable. Mhm. Mhm. Does he get the car? Very

[00:50:52.50] spk_0:
beautiful. A good life. Scott Stein. Don’t just stick to what, you know, let it fly and watch it go. Love that. I always love that when I’m listening on my own, that one just always catches me. Don’t just stick to what, you know, let it fly and watch it go. Thank you, Scott. Thank you, Claire. Let’s, uh, talk about some more pro tips and, uh, and, and finish out your 13.

[00:54:25.74] spk_2:
Yeah. Well, I’d like to for, for budding broadcasters, people who want to do their own nonprofit podcast and you’re thinking, well, what, what would be some of the topics, what would we talk about on this nonprofit podcast? So I suggest looking to your existing communications, what type of content gets the best feedback on your social media and your newsletter, your E news, right? Like you do a little feature on a, on a donor or something and, and you get a bunch of emails from people going, oh, I love that little article about the lady that did XYZ. So your, your existing content really should inspire you to what is going to be on the podcast? What do your, your longtime uh, donors like to hear about. And then uh my next tip is something that Tony gave me. I love this, your topics and your guests also should pull back the curtain that each episode should illustrate it for those who love it and want to know more. Let those people know that there’s, you know, something behind behind here, there’s like magic happening that’s making this nonprofit so great. So try to pull back the curtain a little bit. And then, um, my next tip is something tony I know. Agrees with two. You should adopt a guest first policy. So a lot of people say like, oh, I’d love, we should really do a story about the people cleaning up the rivers in our community. Well, do you know anybody know? And then you have to like hunt around for this magical person who’s going to come on and talk about this content on the flip side. If you do guest first, let’s say you’re talking to someone at your organization, they tell you something really, really interesting. You’re like, wow, that was so interesting. That person is really lively. They want to do the podcast. That’s the person who should be on your podcast. And then that’s guest first. So it’s you think about the guest first and the, the topic is secondary. And I think a great way to illustrate this is with Prince Harry and Meghan who got this massive, um, uh, they got a ton of money to do a podcast for Spotify. But now we’re reading a, you know, Spotify is not doing that anymore. And so they killed it. So now I read little things in the news about, you know, people who know stuff about what was going on, you know, behind the scenes. And so they would get on a call with Prince Harry who I think is a lovely guy and, and they’d say, well, what kind of, you know, podcast you want to do? And he go, well, you know, I would love to talk to Vladimir Putin about his childhood trauma or I would love to talk to Donald Trump about his childhood trauma. And then the producers working with Harry would say, well, do you know Putin? Do you know Trump? Well, no. So how, how is that gonna happen? Meanwhile, your Prince Harry, right? Like a lot of people would want to come on your podcast that, you know, like super cool people, right? Like he’s involved in a lot of different nonprofit causes. There must, you know, there’s all kinds of great people he could have on his podcast, but he’s pitching these ideas that are just not gonna happen and that happens to with non profit podcast. They said, oh, we really need to do it about this. And it’s like, well, who are we gonna have on? Oh, I don’t know. And then you look around for this magic person and then maybe you find the person and they go, no, I don’t want to be on a podcast. You want people who want to be on your podcast that are excited about being on your podcast. So if you go and look at like your previous newsletters and things and you say, oh my God, we interviewed this woman about this show. She was, she loved doing the article, she loved the article. We’ll put her on your podcast. She’s already warmed up. So, you know, I love to repurpose content and ideas um with nonprofits, I

[00:54:37.70] spk_0:
love that little shameless self promotion that the, that tony-martignetti non profit radio outlived the Harry and Meghan. Yes. Okay.

[00:54:48.60] spk_2:
Getting more money.

[00:55:06.97] spk_0:
There’s another one, you know, the Bruce Springsteen Barack Obama podcast, that one collapsed. Michelle Obama had a podcast that one collapsed. So, uh you know, non profit radio has persevered through the uh through the turmoil of podcasting. At least I believe those were both Spotify podcasts. But, uh I feel bad for Bruce and Barack that they couldn’t keep their podcast

[00:56:03.74] spk_2:
going. I feel they couldn’t do as well as tony-martignetti. And when I talk to nonprofits about podcast, I always talk about tony-martignetti. There’s never an initial conversation that I have with someone that doesn’t mention you because I’ll say, look, so here’s this person. 13 years ago. I, he wanted to do this podcast. He put all these things in order. He’s still doing it. He does one a week every week of the year, except for two, that’s 50 a year. I mean, that’s, that takes a ton of work. So I always, I always talk about that. So rounding out my, my top tips, um, I think this is a good tip, the politics, right, of the, of the nonprofit podcast. So, so if you’re, you’re, you’re the person working on it. Like, don’t oversell it. Right. Don’t say over going to have, you know, one, a, one a week and we’re going to have all these people on, don’t oversell what you’re doing. Just keep it, keep it low and say, you know, we’re working on a pilot episode. That’s a great way to manage the nonprofit politics is to say, you know, that we’re doing a pilot episode, we’re going to see how it sounds. Well, let different people listen to it. And, um, I think that’s, that’s a great thing to do. Managing expectations, managing expectations.

[00:56:28.94] spk_0:
That’s probably a very good idea. We’re working on a pilot. Let’s see how, let’s,

[00:57:00.51] spk_2:
yeah, working on a pilot, manage those expectations because that’s, you know, it’s like a campaign or something. So I’ll do my very last tip right now. Let’s call it number 13, we’ll wrap it up and here’s the pro my, my number 13 pro tip. Look at existing podcast for inspiration and validation. So, look around at other nonprofits, see what they’re doing, how they do it and, and do that, find, find those. And I found a few really, really good non profit podcast I want to mention and well, put these out there somewhere. So, Feeding Tampa Bay, which is a, you know, a food insecurity non profit, they have a great um podcast. Vermont Arts Council has a great podcast and something called Farm Commons has a great podcast. So there’s a lot of really good non profit podcast out there and you can see how they do it. You can see what their back end looks like. What does it look like on their website? Right? So that’s, you know, uh what is it, the sincerest form of flattery,

[00:57:30.03] spk_0:
copying, copying, imitation, imitation. Thank you. Alright. Cool Claire. Thank you. Thanks for, thank you for finding three excellent examples to

[00:57:44.22] spk_2:
thank you. Yes. Well, I think, I think that’s helpful for, for our other are 90 other 95% of the nonprofit spectrum. The people without the big budgets,

[00:57:49.17] spk_0:
cheap red wine is our theme music. It’s been our theme music for many years. I don’t know, I don’t know how many 8, 10 years, a long time, a long

[00:58:01.09] spk_3:
time.

[00:58:08.88] spk_0:
So I always ask Scott to perform cheap red wine. Um And so Scott, you wanna, you wanna intro the song at all?

[00:58:51.41] spk_3:
Sure. I wrote this one when I was much, much younger and maybe a little more cynical. I appreciate you letting me do this song last because it sits the highest in my range. Is the hardest one to sing. So, allowing me to just get a little warmed up. But, yeah, this is from a record I did back in 22,009 called Jukebox was actually the first record I did after moving to New York and moved in 07. And so I was just, you know, wide eyed and bushy tailed. Although I didn’t think I was, I certainly was back then, uh, as Fresh off the boat from Ohio as it were. So, anyway, so, but I was, I was thrilled when I got the call that Tony that you wanted to use the song and we’re gonna license it. And, uh, and I’m just so tickled that, that, that you’re still using it and, uh, it’s going strong. So here’s the, here’s the full song,

[00:59:12.17] spk_0:
Deep Red Wine. It’s my pleasure, Scott Cheap Red wine,

[01:02:25.27] spk_6:
baby. Just keep on talking sooner or later. I’ll figure out seeking romantic advice from a building because I’m on it. Look. Mm. You’re losing a diamond. Mhm. And nobody else in used to find me charming, but I can’t figure out don’t matter now

[01:03:31.55] spk_0:
at the top of his range, top of his range, Scott Stein. Thank you. Thank you very much, Scott. Thanks so much for being with us for the 6/50. Thank you.

[01:03:41.65] spk_5:
May be one of Claire’s Pit. Should be to have a live musician with your product.

[01:03:58.26] spk_2:
Well, if you have a very robust podcast, yes, you could have live, you can have live, you have live music. I get my music off of something called story blocks. That’s a website that has all this great non live music

[01:04:02.25] spk_0:
that you can sample. Ward Amy Jean. Thanks for being with me.

[01:04:07.69] spk_5:
Thanks for having us along the ride.

[01:04:10.06] spk_0:
Absolutely. My pleasure. Continued. Good luck to you, Amy. And you’re in your fellowship. Thanks

[01:04:18.98] spk_5:
to schedule some time later and debrief at all.

[01:04:23.44] spk_0:
Okay, you can debrief on non profit radio if you like that. That’s what

[01:04:26.75] spk_5:
I mean. We’ll hash it all up together. Okay. Okay.

[01:04:29.89] spk_0:
Alright, Jean. Thank you so

[01:04:32.82] spk_4:
much. Thanks Tony and just to add into the tips. Um Don’t infringe on creators rights. Don’t take Scott songs and, and put them on there without his permission and license and writers Guild go because you got to protect those, your, your creators, right? So, thank you for leaving that up

[01:04:51.49] spk_2:
to

[01:04:53.98] spk_0:
and yeah, I licensed cheap red wine from Scott all those years ago.

[01:04:58.89] spk_3:
Yes, appreciated proud member of local leader to FM. So,

[01:05:03.86] spk_6:
all

[01:05:06.91] spk_0:
right, Claire Meyerhoff. Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for bringing your tips. Always a pleasure to have you join us on the, the show. Anniversaries. Thanks,

[01:05:16.00] spk_2:
Claire, tony. It’s great. It’s a, it’s a highlight of my year. I’ll see you at the 7/100 show.

[01:05:23.33] spk_0:
You will. Thank you. Thanks everybody, Kate. Thank you. Thank you, Kate. Take us out.

[01:05:31.52] spk_1:
Happy to tony. If you missed any part of this week’s show,

[01:05:37.27] spk_0:
I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re

[01:05:55.59] spk_1:
sponsored by Donor Box with intuitive fundraising software from donor box. Your donors give four times faster helping you help others. Donor box dot org. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I’m your associate producer, Kate martignetti. The show, social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guide and this glorious live music is by Scott Stein.

[01:06:23.29] spk_0:
Thank you for that affirmation, Scotty. You’re with me next week for non profit radio, non, profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for July 17, 2023: Communications & Development Teams Working Better Together

 

Misty McLaughlin & Alice HendricksCommunications & Development Teams Working Better Together

Misty McLaughlin and Alice Hendricks close our 2023 Nonprofit Technology Conference coverage, as they reveal how these two teams can avoid the common conflicts and tensions, to come together collaboratively. They’re the principals and founders of Cause Craft Consulting.

 

 

 

 

 

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[00:00:34.85] spk_0:
And welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio, big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d suffer the embarrassment of mono aphasia if you uttered the word fail because you missed this week’s show. Here’s Kate, our new associate producer just promoted from announcer with highlights of this week’s show, Kate. Congratulations on your promotion.

[00:01:13.64] spk_1:
Thank you, Tony. I’m happy to be here and now communications and development teams working better together. Misty mclaughlin and Alice Hendricks close our 2023 nonprofit technology conference coverage as they reveal how these two teams can avoid the common conflicts and tensions to come together collaboratively. They’re the principals and founders of cause craft consulting on Tony’s take two.

[00:01:15.88] spk_0:
I finally have someone to blame.

[00:01:20.84] spk_1:
We’re sponsored by Donor box with intuitive fundraising software from donor box. Your donors give four times faster helping you help others. Donor box dot org.

[00:01:34.89] spk_2:
Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 23 NTC 2023 nonprofit technology conference in Denver, Colorado, where we

[00:01:49.07] spk_0:
are sponsored by Heller consulting, technology

[00:01:50.04] spk_2:
strategy and implementation for nonprofits with me now at the, at the conference are Misty mclaughlin and Alice Hendricks. They are both principles and co founders of cause craft consulting, Misty. Welcome back.

[00:02:08.19] spk_3:
Welcome to non profit

[00:02:09.04] spk_4:
radio.

[00:02:10.13] spk_2:
Pleasure to have you both co founders, the

[00:02:11.96] spk_3:
principles. Thank

[00:02:18.51] spk_2:
you. Your session is communications and development team working better together. Alright, Alice, since you’re the first time non profit radio, why don’t you give us an overview of what’s, what’s out there between these two teams and why this is important,

[00:02:47.95] spk_4:
you know, tony, it’s a really important topic because over the 20 years that I’ve been in the sector working on both development and communications teams projects from a technology perspective, we’ve noticed that there’s often inherent conflict between those two teams primarily because their mission are very different. Development departments need to raise the money, communications departments need to get the word out and so nobody is doing anything wrong. They’re all living their jobs in the right way, doing the right thing. However, because of the inherent conflict, friction occurs between people and teams often don’t get along. They fight over resources, they don’t have good processes and that can lead to a feeling of discord between staff and organizations.

[00:03:17.40] spk_2:
Interesting. Okay, I, I was very interested to read this uh because I’ve not, I’ve not seen this but I’ve been a consultant for so many years. Um you know, I could see why I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t know about it. I do plan giving consulting. So that’s a narrow niche within one of the two silos we’re talking about, well, hopefully not silos within one of the two teams that we’re talking about, you know, in development. Um So, yeah, I’m not aware of that, Misty, how does this conflict sometimes play

[00:04:06.19] spk_3:
out? Well, Tony, that’s a great question. So, um we have been seeing it for years but then we saw an article a few years ago in the Chronicle of Philanthropy kind of talking about what the implications of this phenomenon are because it is kind of, I think it’s reasonably well acknowledged that this happens sometimes to the point that those two teams don’t work together at all. And so you have kind of two separate pieces and they just decided we’re not going to work together. And then there are times that it’s actually a

[00:04:12.09] spk_2:
disaster. We can’t raise money if we can’t get the message

[00:04:25.54] spk_3:
out. Exactly. And we can’t, and we can’t get the message out if we don’t have that kind of core audience on board. Right? I mean, fundraising represents a significant audience of importance for the organization. So the Chronicle of Philanthropy did a piece about this and then we just continued to see it, continue to see it, see it play out in all these ways. And we decided to do some research about this. So our session is actually kind of presenting some of the results of that research. We heard from 85 organizations about what this looks like in their organizations and how it plays out from, I would say dynamics that are mildly ineffective and involve some minor friction to complete breakdowns.

[00:04:50.06] spk_2:
We’re not talking to each other. We’re not, we’re not going to send your messages or we’re not going to support your message. Support your messaging.

[00:05:14.57] spk_3:
Exactly. Or we’re going to circumvent the approval process and we’re just gonna send something out before you can stop us. And if it contradicts the mission or it contradicts, for example, like a shared messaging hierarchy. Oh, well, as long as I got my message to my audience and it happens on both sides, it’s no one’s at fault. I mean, people really in general, people aren’t devious, they want to work together. They sometimes just can’t figure out exactly how to make that happen. Um And then, you know, often what is just a kind of personal conflict blows up to be something happening more at a team level or more at the departmental level, leaders have a huge role to play in this. And if two leaders between those two departments don’t get along, it’s difficult for staff to kind of figure out how to navigate the

[00:05:39.74] spk_2:
President’s or something. Exactly. Um Is there uh do either of you have, well, you work, you work in the same company, you know, all the same, you have the same clients? I mean, is there a, I don’t mean to focus on the inflammatory. But is there, is there like a story of conflict, maybe, maybe like a good story of conflict and then later on, we could tell the epilogue where it came out, came out. Well, after cause craft consulting intervened. Is there a story like that?

[00:07:14.95] spk_4:
Yeah, I mean, I think there’s lots of stories like that. What we see often dynamics that happen because of this is delayed getting emails out the door or vetting process is just it’s going to take me four days to get back to you to approve the content or choose the photo or complaints about just the lack of collaborative working together. We also often see the leaders might not get along of these two departments, but staff themselves develop and forged relationships of trust amongst each other, which is great. You really want to have good, strong personal 1 to 1 relationships. In fact, in our research results, one of the ways that we saw people who responded, that mitigate the fact that the teams themselves weren’t getting along is that just they made friends with someone on the other team so that they needed a file update or some piece of collateral, they would ask their friend, which is wonderful because you have a trusted friend. But for us as process design consultants, we see that as a dysfunction, we see that as a lack of people really understanding what their role is, who’s supposed to be doing what, what lane they should stay in, what you can expect from someone and another team. So the really the solution to all of this is good, strong leadership, building trust and good process. So everyone is clear about what you’re supposed to do, what happens next and that helps mitigate the conflict. But yeah, I mean, it can be very hard to work in an organization where you don’t get along with others.

[00:08:56.77] spk_3:
One organization that we came across the international relief organization, so obviously a big part of their, their work is fundraising and engagement went in times of crisis, right. So rapid response, emergency response is huge for them. And it’s kind of the core source of their fundraising. Um the development department in the communications department sort of went through this period of years where they just couldn’t figure out how they were going to message in these moments and it would sort of be a simmering tension. Um And when it was a non conflict, exactly, it’s a core function of the organization. And so it would be a kind of a problem, but they would sort of come to some sort of agreement, but then a crisis would happen and they couldn’t get a message out the door in order to be able to fundraise around that message. And so they would miss the moment again and again and again, in these moments that they should have been coming together and pulling together as a team. So in that case, they brought us in to say, how can we get these two teams to work together? We want a message and comply completely different ways, particularly in these moments of crisis, we want to use the channels. So the digital channels, in particular, with this kind of hot spot of, well, who’s going to say one, an email and who gets to press the send button, who gets to have the final word on how we’re going to talk about this. Um And we went through a whole initiative to try and solve this and get them talking to each other. And it was a lot about getting them to use the same language and recognize each other’s expertise that they just come from different worlds. Somebody who responded to our survey said, communications is all about saying what the message that the organization needs to get out and development is all about trying to say what the donors want to hear. And those are just two completely different worldviews. And so when you can put those together and say, where’s the common ground in this? How can we represent our organizational priorities? And at the same time time, really translate that to words and language that really resonates with donors and causes them to act.

[00:09:47.72] spk_2:
Okay. So let’s start to get to some specifics that we can, we can recommend if you are uh suffering the symptoms that the two of you were talking about 55 minutes ago um disharmony and yeah, antagonism, frustration. All right. Um because we’re, we’re, we’re, yeah, we’re striving for harmony. We’re gonna leave disharmony behind and striving for harmony. Alright. Um you talk about a clear message prioritization, so deciding in advance, I guess this instead of me trying to guess Alice or Misty, you’re better. Alice is waving to Misty. So different

[00:10:11.08] spk_4:
in terms of doing a content strategy where it’s clear about what we’re trying to do and having things planned in advance. So we know what, how we will behave in any given situation. It’s governance, it’s a process governor project of understanding when this crisis is going to occur. If you’re an international relief organization and there’s a tsunami, what do you do having those plans already laid out? So it’s clear about what you’re supposed to do, what the other people on what other team is supposed to do. And that’s a process design. In our research we asked, is there any governance over the messaging? And most of the respondents said no, there might be some process or a shared calendar, but we really don’t have a way of knowing how to behave when something happens.

[00:10:40.61] spk_2:
Okay. What does this governance look like?

[00:11:39.72] spk_3:
That’s a great question. So governance can happen at a lot of a lot of different points in working together a lot of different points in that sort of relationship life cycle. So for example, when you have a project, making sure that if those teams are gonna be working together on, for example, a campaign or a long term body of work, or maybe there’s a new programmatic area that’s rolling out. You always start with a tool like a project charter or terms of reference as an international organizations, they call a charter terms of reference. Um But the idea is that you’re so together and you’re saying, okay, how are we going to talk about this? What is our organizational positioning, not just messaging but positioning? What is our relationship to this thing that’s happening part of the social problem? What’s our unique value proposition? And how are we comfortable talking about this as an organization? How are we not? That’s the content strategy piece that Alice was speaking to? What do we think the best channels to do that? And how when something happens around this, when there’s a big news event, when there’s something to respond to, how are are we going to work together? And that’s, you know, forever, how are we going to work together? But in this specific case, on this topic, how are we going to work

[00:11:46.52] spk_2:
together these workflows, workflow process? Exactly. All shared and agreed in

[00:12:32.68] spk_3:
advance. Exactly. And that everybody on the team knows, right. It’s not just an agreement that two leaders make everybody, individual contributors need to understand what they’re supposed to do. How do they feed into the system overall? So that they’re working hand in hand together. And a lot of the time, there are certain teams, for example, digital teams, they are forced to operate between communications and fundraising wherever they sit there, controlling channels that all these different parts of the organization need to use a lot of the time. That’s a starting place for forming some shared working agreements or some principles that are used in moments like this. There are a lot of other tools to. So for example, she calendars so that there is one shared view of every external communication that’s happening, whether it’s a fundraising ask or it’s a media piece coming out or it’s some sort of campaign, broad marketing campaign that there is one shared view and everyone gets a view of the whole of what the audience is seeing instead of a kind of micro departmental specific view,

[00:13:00.50] spk_2:
other other other processes that you can share that. Yeah.

[00:13:24.31] spk_3:
Yeah. So we have a whole list in our presentation of hard tools and I would say something like the calendar and the workflows, those are hard tools. Um There are also soft tools and I will just say for fairness purposes, these soft tools like work in any two departments that are having a breakdown. We were here two years ago where we were online two years ago at NTC talking about fundraising and it teams and frictions between those teams. There are lots of places, obviously, it’s not just limited to development and communications. But some examples of some of the soft tools would be um you know, doing shared planning activities. So doing your annual annual plans together, not doing separate departmental plans but saying, what do we want to accomplish this year? What does that look like?

[00:13:48.11] spk_2:
It’s an outside consultant? So what do I know from collaborative calendars? I thought, I thought this especially communications and fundraising. I would have thought that this was all happening.

[00:15:03.09] spk_4:
Think about even pre internet fundraising departments were doing plan giving major gifts and direct mail and they were doing their own thing and direct mail is kind of its own bespoke thing. It’s still kind of done the same way. It was about 25 30 years ago, right? When you enter, when all of a sudden digital happened, everyone, the the email list is really a file of all the supporters. Communications often feels like there’s an audience about just awareness and brand engagement and marketing and all I want to do is engage those supporters in that way. Development looks at that list and says these are prospects or they’re already donors that I need to feed and nurture. And so part of it was the shared technology often created the conflict around who’s list is who’s who gets to message to who about what message, right? So what is the content of the message that’s a fundraising message versus a educational message or what the organization is? Doing the part of that has been, I think that most of the conflicts are around ownership of the odd, they believe they have different audiences. But supporters of an organization don’t have a hat on and say, I’m a donor or another hat on and say, oh, I’m interested in this content. That’s not how it really works. But that shift is slowly happening and we’re seeing more collaboration around that because of the proliferation of channels that everyone is engaging on social email.

[00:15:52.01] spk_2:
What’s your advice around who should be in these conversations were doing the annual calendar? Is it I imagine it’s not only the two heads of the of each team, but how deep do we go to every, all the members of each, both teams? I mean, our listeners are small and midsize nonprofits. So we’re not talking about 25 person fundraising or communicate, but still there could be six or eight people on each or even combined. What’s your advice around? Who

[00:16:40.93] spk_4:
does this planning? Transparency is super important especially to employees now, you know, where we live in an age where feeling aligned with the mission and your work and coming to work and really having a good experience at work is very helpful. So our advice is usually be as inclusive as possible with everyone who can participate in a planning exercise. Bring them in because you know, we live in an age where people are quitting and quiet, quitting and if you live, if you are working in an environment where there’s tension with other teams, that’s a good sign. That’s a problem. I mean, it might be a retention issue there for organizations. So when you do strategic planning together or redesigning a process or anything that will enable a change to happen, it’s, it’s best to be as inclusive as possible.

[00:16:45.92] spk_2:
Or, or if everyone is not included in the actual meeting, then bringing it back to your team incrementally. It’s not like it’s all going to be decided in a 90 minute meeting, bring it back feedback, representing that feedback to the, to the working group or the

[00:17:01.53] spk_4:
collaboration.

[00:17:10.59] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. Um Anything else we should be talking about work processes planning besides, well, you were starting to talk about soft, you didn’t, you didn’t, you didn’t really flesh out. We got digressed, digressed you into more discussion of the hard tools, lackluster, you’re suffering a lackluster host.

[00:18:53.56] spk_3:
There’s a lot, there’s a lot and this is I think where I was going with that was to say these are tools that work in other breakdowns, they work in any breakdown in the human system. But for example, saying we’re taking the whole team away twice a year for one day or two days. And that means development and communications. That might also be a marketing group that might also be a digital team or it might be sub working groups, but we’re going to do these two day intensive retreats where we really try and understand each other’s expertise and map solutions together and those could be processed solutions or that could be campaign planning. It could be anything, it could be exploring new audience opportunities um There and there’s all of the piece we’ve just heard so many clients say this year, you know, this wasn’t working well before the pandemic, but now we’re just broke down by the side of the road. Our ropes have frayed between these two teams and even within our own teams, we’ve on boarded new staff, they’ve never met each other. And so what is it that we’re going to do? So understanding, for example, when you need to pick up the phone, when email is not enough, our slack is not enough, texting is not enough. We need to actually pick up the phone and work together in a human way towards a solution. Um That, that those kinds of pieces as obvious as it sounds, they’re not pieces that people have necessarily incorporated into their ways of working, particularly younger staff. So understanding that there’s a whole range of those kind of tools that you can use um and sort of working norms that you can establish with those teams if you were a leader or even just a manager of a small team. I think one of the most interesting things we found in this survey is that this tends to be less of a problem at small organizations, particularly when you have like a one person development and communications team, you have to work together. You don’t have a choice. This is a problem that happens often with growth and scaling that relationships that once worked. It’s just harder to figure out how to do that. The more humans you have in the

[00:19:17.28] spk_2:
mix retreats. Plus there’s social time built in. What about? It cannot be a soft tulle, just social time that we’re not doing any planning. But we’re doing, I don’t know, you know, one of the mystery, one of the mystery places, solve the murder mystery places or, you know, whatever or just drinks a game room. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Just get to know each other outside our, our marketing and communicate.

[00:20:04.70] spk_3:
This can be very social. But the idea of like after we do something, we have to do some retrospection together, I think that often gets lost in these teams because people are moving so fast, you move from one campaign to the next campaign to the next ask. And now so many teams have the data to sit down together after doing something, even something that maybe didn’t go very well and saying, well, what worked here? Is there something we can learn together and kind of using the data is a way to have an independent objective view. You can all analyze together and say, what does this mean for the future? How do we do it? And you can do those in a fun social way. It doesn’t have to be a boring, sort of like. Now we’re going to do a postmortem and we’re all going to look at it. You can, you can sort of make this a part of the way that you work together.

[00:21:13.56] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Donor box. It’s the fundraising engine of choice for 50,000 organizations from 96 countries. They’ve got something new. Now, you can accept cashless donations anytime and anywhere with donor box live kiosk, turn your ipad or Android tablet into a kiosk to boost in person giving. And with their new additions to donor box events, you can sell tickets in 43 currencies and ask buyers to cover fees. Put these two together and you’re in person events will take off donor box helping you help others. Donor box dot org. It’s time for Tony’s take two.

[00:21:16.08] spk_0:
Thank you, Kate. How, how are you?

[00:21:18.85] spk_1:
I’m doing well. How are

[00:22:58.51] spk_0:
you? Uh, I’m great. I’m great. I’m glad you’re with us. And, uh, and congratulations again on your promotion. That’s so, that’s Kate. She’s not an intern. She’s our associate producer, but I have someone I can blame. Now, I’ve been saying for years, where’s the intern? Yeah, I wish I had an intern every time I make a mistake who would say who writes this crappy copy? I wish I had an intern to blame. Well, I don’t have an intern but I have an associate producer now, I have an associate producer that I can blame. It’s beautiful. So, any flubs? Well, I’ll just leave them at flubs. I won’t go more, uh, I won’t be more extreme with another F word with any, with any, with any flubs. I’ve got an associate producer that is now going to be responsible. I’m thinking this, this is today’s news. I’m just thinking, I’m glad that Kate is not a member of Sag after yet. Otherwise I would have lost her. She’d be, be on the line so we wouldn’t have her but not a member yet. It’s relieving. It’s sort of, there’s a burden lifted from my shoulders that I no longer have to bear the responsibility of my own mistakes. That’s the beauty of it. I don’t have to be responsible for my own flubs any, any longer. Very relieving. That is Tony’s take two.

[00:23:20.68] spk_1:
Not what I was expecting and I’m not sure what I’ve gotten myself into here but whatever we’ve got just about a butt load more time now. Back to communications and development. Teens working better together. Hmm.

[00:23:23.89] spk_2:
Where else should we go with the topic? We still have some time together. You know, we haven’t

[00:25:24.42] spk_4:
talked about yet when you, if there’s something broken that needs, that needs healing, you know, you think about these conflicts in any, whether it’s between communications and development, between it and development, any kind of processes that are broken and cause frustration and friction within teams. It’s useful to have another event happening and that needs change and then you can overlay process improvement during another change. So a good example that we often find is that if someone is migrating from one software tool to another, it’s a great opportunity because people are going to use a different technology when they come to work every day. The common thing between development departments and communications departments is that they all use digital tools. They use CRM S, they use email marketing tools, they are always tied to technology. And so if the technology is changing, it’s a great opportunity to think about what role do we need doing? What activity in this tool? And then you can take that one step further and say, how should all these roles work together? What’s the workflow? What’s the process here? Who’s supposed to be doing what and what you find in a lot of organizations is there’s a often individuals that they’re just willing to learn everything. So they’ll take on any project and they can use the tools really easily and they end up doing more than their job description, then you have others who just really don’t, don’t have their role clear about what they’re supposed to be doing. So you have an opportunity in something as, as something like a CRM migration. You can also take a look at the staffing and the staffing structure and the processes and improve some of these frictions almost under the guise of as we go through this technology migration. Let’s take a look at how we’re actually doing our work and that’s useful because sometimes new technology has different features. So you need a skill set of a subject matter, expert in a purse skill. How did that person fit in? Which means how to other people’s jobs change. So if you look at the human component around technology

[00:25:40.50] spk_2:
and sometimes technology is not the sole solution, the people in the processes could very well be contributing to the to the problem that we’re looking for the tech to solve.

[00:26:22.77] spk_4:
Usually the text, I would say almost all the time when we hear about a technology problem, the technology is working as intended. It’s a people and process and workflow problem. Sometimes tools are older and they need to be renovated or an organization has developed a new strategy, an organization that mostly does touch engagement or gets corporate gift or grants wants to start a mass marketing program. They need technology that can better accommodate those different strategies. Those are all opportunities to stop and look at process. How are we looking, how are we working together? What organizational structure do we have? Is everybody is or do we have all the right roles in our team? And it’s a great opportunity, we find that a lot of the time we do a lot of change management and process design around the human component of the technology and it really has nothing to do with the tech itself.

[00:26:34.31] spk_2:
Is there another example, Alice that you can share around an event that merits this this kind of attention and planning and introspect. Really, it’s introspection, I think its organizational introspection, something else non tech

[00:27:33.47] spk_4:
oftentimes a new leader will come in so a new leader can come in and have a new idea or a new program. Like the example of now we’re going to start doing a new strategy. So any type of external force of change, if there’s a moment of critical change, that requires the opportunity to take a step back and look at how things are working. You’re absolutely right. It takes a very self actualized executive director to say here, I’m getting complaints from my development director and complaints from my communications director. I need to bring in an outside consultant and figure out a better process so people can work together. That doesn’t often happen. Usually there’s some other pressing external event like a new person comes in, who’s a leader, a new development director and director and executive director who says, wait a minute, this doesn’t seem right. Why are people complaining and not getting along? Let’s take a look at that or it’s a technology thing. It’s like our tools aren’t working together.

[00:27:58.51] spk_2:
Okay. That was a good example. Thank you. Alright, cool. I’ll put you on the spot. Thank you. All right now. You’re cause craft consulting, you’re not flustered. I, I put you on the spot and you rose to the moment. Of course. What is no surprise, surprise? Yeah, that’s right. All right. Um We still have some time if there’s other stuff you want to, we talked through your three learning objectives, stated, learning objectives for the, for the session. But what else, what else you’re gonna share with folks that we haven’t talked about? Maybe we

[00:28:11.46] spk_3:
could talk a little bit about our survey results. Um I think we learned some

[00:28:14.54] spk_2:
more motivation type. Okay.

[00:28:57.93] spk_3:
Well, one of the things we asked about values beyond motivation, beyond motivation. Uh the subject of structure because we were, we were curious about and we have observed a lot. It’s not a perfect structure that perfect organizational way of structuring this work of these teams that works well every time. But what we really noticed is there are big differences in the way that these breakdowns happen that are a result of structure. So when you have a development in the communications team and one department, it’s not that that’s a perfect structure. It’s just harder to have a lot of conflict where people don’t work together, right? But as an organization grows, you tend to have two separate functions, people specialize and they pull apart. That’s one moment where a lot of conflicts can happen. Um where digital lives in an organization that’s a big differentiator in terms of. So if digital lives in communications. Sometimes there’s a real breakdown between development and calms. Digital are the ambassadors that go back and forth and the emissaries between those teams and are the ones that are trying to connect the ropes. Even when those

[00:29:17.95] spk_2:
earlier you said something similar. Yeah,

[00:29:27.92] spk_4:
they have to be the mitigators, you know, they have to, they’re getting the pressure from both sides and they actually have to serve both departments. So oftentimes the attitude and approach the digital team can be one of either exacerbating conflict or bringing people together.

[00:29:32.93] spk_2:
What about the existence or not? Of the same leader over two different teams. So, but they’re not the same team, they’re two separate teams but same director or vice president. Does that, does that make a difference in terms of likelihood or not of conflict? That’s a good

[00:29:57.92] spk_3:
question. I would say it depends sometimes that leader themselves really has a career that aligns with one function or another. We’ve seen, I have an exam recently, the department that its development in communications, but the leader is really a long term career fundraiser and communications. A little left out. It’s like kind of a child that has the parent that’s really aligned with the other child. So if you have a strong leader who equally invested in both sides and really thinks from the perspective of both sides that actually can work very well as a structure, we’ve seen a lot of that

[00:30:28.41] spk_2:
interesting because they come from a background of one of the other. So they’re going to be much more fluent with one function.

[00:30:51.56] spk_3:
Exactly. As something else we saw that I thought was really fascinating. Is we asked how many of these organizations have a dedicated marketing or engagement team that’s not exactly calm and it’s not exactly development. It’s a marketing function and a huge portion. I think almost 70% said that they have marketing teams when we would have these conversations 10 years ago. Marketing, it’s still a very dirty word in organizations. If you said marketing people would say, well, I’m a nonprofit. We don’t do marketing that’s changed hugely railed

[00:31:14.88] spk_2:
against that, but I always bristled against that, but it has changed, it has changed marketing and promotion. Now we talk about promotion. Promotion used to be sales promotion, like selling lay’s potato chips at a point of sale, you know, in a supermarket that was sales promotion. Uh You know, we’ve, we’ve there are things we can learn from the for profit sector, right? Everything corporate is not dirty. Exactly and marketing and promotion, I think are

[00:31:41.11] spk_3:
examples and marketing. A lot of those teams see themselves as engagement functions as thinking across all the ways that an organization might engage and thinking about the full funnel, the kind of full end to end relationship even for non donors, like volunteers, activists. Um lots of other folks, service recipients even, how do they play into the way the organization needs to be engaging them. Well, the

[00:32:46.09] spk_4:
for profit world has kind of nailed this with the idea of customer experience management. Now you have big companies that have CX. So when you think about the donor experience or the supporter experience, thinking about it, from that perspective, it’s about the curation of an entire holistic experience. The for profit world has nailed that when you, it’s, it’s important to actually for all of the teams to consider their audience as one audience. And how do we, what do we want that experience of our audience to be? And that like I said before, you don’t put your hat on as a donor and a hat on to someone else. So thinking from all of the new knowledge we have from customer experience management, applying that to how we’re going to engage our supporters. We have seen organizations combine their development and communications teams like you said before into a public engagement, um External affairs, other names of teams that have a single leader, the benefit of that is also there’s a single source of making a decision or setting priorities, which is really helpful to have right now, the teams have competing priorities and there’s no arbitrator besides maybe the executive director or the executive committee to say yes, we’re going to focus on this and we’re not going to focus on that. We talked

[00:33:07.22] spk_2:
about message prioritization, okay. Right. Single single decision maker. Alright. Anything you want to leave us with, I let Alice open. So Mr, you want to leave us with something harmonious and uplifting, empowering

[00:33:17.27] spk_4:
the harmonious and uplifting, encouraging,

[00:33:19.09] spk_2:
encouraging, and empowering.

[00:33:57.97] spk_3:
Well, one of the things that gave me great relief in analyzing the survey results was to realize that I think most people know that these two teams actually have more in common than many of the other teams in the organ. There are some natural points of harmony built in. They both really care about results and outcomes. They are very focused on reaching audiences. They think from outside in and not just an inside out perspective. And by that, I mean, they think about these audiences and what do these audience needs. They’re curious about how to reach them, they want to message right and represent the organization, well, they want to get it right. And they see themselves as bro the work of the organization to the world at large, making it relevant and meaningful. So there’s a ton of common ground. I think that just gets obscured a lot of the time by these persistent thorny dynamics. And when you can help people to see the common ground, people are relieved and excited to work together almost universally. We’ve seen that over and over again. The will is there people just sort of need to be given permission and shown the way

[00:34:26.58] spk_2:
Mr mclaughlin Alice Hendricks, both principles and co founders of cars, craft consulting. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Thank you Alice and thank you for being with nonprofit radio coverage of 23 nt. See where we are not sponsored by lay’s potato chips. Even though I gave them a shout out, we are sponsored, in fact by Heller consulting, technology strategy and implementation for nonprofits. Thanks for being with us

[00:35:02.90] spk_1:
next week giving circles with the woman who popularized them. Sarah Llewellyn. If you missed any part of this week’s show,

[00:35:06.21] spk_0:
I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com.

[00:35:25.10] spk_1:
We’re sponsored by Donor Box with intuitive fundraising software from donor box. Your donors give four times faster helping you help others. Donor box dot org. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I’m your associate producer, Kate martignetti. This show, social media is by Susan Chavez, Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by Scott Stein.

[00:35:51.75] spk_0:
Thank you for that affirmation, Scotty be with us next week for nonprofit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.