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Nonprofit Radio for November 2, 2020: Boards And Asking Styles

My Guest:

Brian Saber: Boards And Asking Styles

Brian Saber returns with his new book, “Boards And Asking Styles.” Your board’s Rainmakers, Go-Getters, Kindred Spirits and Mission Controllers all need to work with each other, your CEO and your staff. Brian shepherds you through how to make that happen. He’s president of Asking Matters.


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[00:02:12.84] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host is non profit radio your favorite abdominal podcast? I certainly hope so. You know there are seven days in a head, Ahmad, Of course, that’s the noun form. I’m so proud of myself. When I discover a new word that I have to open with this on. I want to thank Miriam Webster for sending it to me that I can discover it and be so proud. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. Id Bear the pain of leishmaniasis If you bit me with the idea that you missed today’s show boards and asking styles, Ryan Saber returns with his new book, That’s It. That’s the title boards and asking styles. Very straightforward. No fluff in the title reserved all the fluff for the book. We explore how the asking matters work that he pioneered will help strengthen your board responsive by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o and by dot drives, raise more money changed more lives. Tony dot m a slash dot for a free demo and a free month non tony steak to a November webinar. I’m very pleased to welcome Brian Saber back to non profit radio. He’s president of asking matters home to the asking styles which help people understand and embrace their unique strengths. As fundraisers, he’s spent his entire career asking for money for nonprofits. I’m gonna telethon, Caller. I made your gift officer and executive director and now as a consultant. His first book was asking Styles Revolutionize your fundraising. His latest book We’re Here to Talk About Today is boards and asking styles. A roadmap to success. Asking matters is that asking matters calm and he’s at Brian Saber. Brian. Welcome back to the show. Congratulations on the new book.

[00:02:21.54] spk_0:
Thank you, tony. Thanks for having me back. I’m glad to see that Cove. It has indulged your wit at all.

[00:02:28.16] spk_1:
Thank you for recognizing that I haven’t undoubtable wit. I’m, uh I’m floored by that s oh, what a way to launch. Tony is wit. Uh, it’s not dull. It’s definitely not dull. No,

[00:02:40.64] spk_0:
it is not. We can use all of it that we could get these days.

[00:03:24.74] spk_1:
Yeah, we could use even even my just barely a Ndlela wit. Thank you. Uh, no, you gotta have fun. It’s my show, you know, whatever the hell I want to do, I mean, I just, you know, we’re gonna We’re gonna learn. But if we’re not gonna have fun, I’m not gonna bother personally personal. So lets you Mm. Let’s start out with the asking styles. We gotta lay the groundwork for the for. The handful of listeners don’t know aren’t well acquainted with the asking styles. Let’s lay that framework for folks. Then we’ll see how it helps your board. What’s his asking styles thing? Great.

[00:04:30.64] spk_0:
So the asking styles were developed a decade ago. Now by my co founder, Andre kills dead and myself. We develop them because everywhere we looked in the field, we saw people who said I’m not a fundraiser. I’m not this. I’m not that in particular. We saw it with the boards. Most board members have come onto boards. Will say I’ll do anything but fundraise. I’m not a fundraiser. I hate fundraising. I can’t ask my friends for money and so forth. And we knew how critical boards were to fundraising and that the type of fundraising. We were talking about the more significant gifts that come from developing relationships one on one, that that fundraising was all based on personality and relationship. It was much more art than science, and we had to help people understand where they fit in it so they could be comfortable. So we went about figuring out what makes someone’s asking style. We felt two characteristics. How one interacts and how one thinks were most important, how one acts on the extrovert introvert spectrum, how one thinks on the analytic, intuitive spectrum, and based on that there would be four basic styles and that you fall into one quadrant or another, but with a little bit of another style that no one felt cleanly in one box. There were some people who were uber this or uber that so such analytic introverts, the type of people who sit behind a computer writing code all day and such intuitive extroverts that, you know, creative just floating all over the place. You could never pin him down with massive ideas, but that most of us were somewhere in between had a little bit of this and that and we wanted people understand that. So we created this rubric for the field for the field of non profit to help everyone feel more comfortable and understand how to fundraise more successfully. How to tell their story in their own way from their own strengths. Not to worry about an elevator pitch, not to worry about reciting lots of outcomes measurements if they want to speak from the heart and a different, passionate, visionary way not to worry about that piece of what really sold them was outcomes and goals and plans that they had to speak in the language that was authentic to them. And that would be compelling, uh, to the donor, Teoh, a prospect or a current donor. So that’s that’s what we developed and meeting

[00:06:25.34] spk_1:
meeting board members. I realize this is not only for board members, but that’s our conversation today, and that’s you’re saying that’s where you found it. Most relevant, and then where they where they are, what worked with what you are type of person that you are in the quadrant will identify the quadrants and versus trying to make you something that you’re not, makes you uncomfortable

[00:06:29.20] spk_0:
right, and we started with boards than spent a number of years, much more focused on staff, developing a lot of materials in depth courses in a membership in such a brother. I bought Andreae now seven years ago, which is hard to believe. So I

[00:06:44.65] spk_1:
was going to say Now this started with you and Andrea Kill Stead, who’s been on the show. And then what? You pushed her out. You took her expertise on, then pushed her out for a nominal buyout.

[00:09:47.96] spk_0:
I broke her kneecaps and said, That’s it. Off you go. Um, you know, Andre is a She is a huge go get her. She’s a big ideas person and she has brought a tremendous amount of the field. But it was at her instigation because she said, You know what, Brian? I like really building these things. I have these big ideas. They’re running. It’s not really me, and I can see where you because my secondaries mission controller and I could do this plan full stuff where you would be better at running it and and and Andrea is significantly older than I am. I don’t think she would be bothered by my saying that. So she within a different point in her life and she said, Let’s let’s do this So I took it over. And as you may know, she went on to then build capital campaign, uh, toolkit with Amy Eisenstein. That’s been another great thing in the field. Yeah, so I took it over in, uh, 2013 and have spent the last seven years really developing the styles. Everything from the iconography you see now Thio the application of the styles in many ways, and I’ve got done trainings across the country and lots of conferences that are mostly for staff. And interestingly, I’m now circling back to board. And I’m doing a lot of board work, a lot of board trainings. And out of that came this idea that my second book should really be focused on board. When I started, it was pre now with this and and the the additional complications of being the board member and of running a non profit in many ways, they asking styles or even more important, because boards have to be at their best. In order for the organizations to survive, everyone has to be at the table. Helping to build resource is and everyone has to work together in a collegial way that create some synergy and makes everyone feel like they’re part of a team. And it’s hard to get to know board members anyway, when all you do is meet every two months for two hours and maybe you’re in a committee or two and that those meet once in a while. Now it’s all by zoom. Everyone’s overwhelmed zoomed out, and yet it’s more important than ever for people who feel their team and you have new board members I’ve seen. I’ve been delighted to see a number of announcements lately of organizations that have brought on new board members during this time, which is, you can imagine is challenging. You think of a board member coming thio their first board meeting, sitting in a room and getting to meet and experience other people and see how things really work. And now it’s all by zoom, which is much harder in a very different dynamic. So so, understanding the styles and how everyone interacts is even more important for on boarding a new board member. Look, you work, you get

[00:09:50.28] spk_1:
to recruit when we talk about recruitment to exactly but so Let Tze identify the styles. So you have things to spectrum. You got the analytic, intuitive spectrum, and you have the extrovert introvert spectrum. So if you know, put the extrovert introvert on the vertical and the analytic intuitive on the horizontal, you get four quadrants. So what are those? What are those for?

[00:10:14.26] spk_0:
Eso top left. You get the analytic extroverts. The rainmaker always goal oriented. Uh, driven, competitive. Keep their eye on the prize. Knows they’re succeeding based on the numbers, right? Did I reach this goal? Did I bring this money? Gets to to raise as much money. Then you have the intuitive extrovert top, right? The go getter, big vision thinker. Lots of energy brings people along with their enthusiasm on always sees the opportunities. So is bringing that big passion and excitement about the future. Anything’s possible. Then you have your intuitive introvert, your kindred spirit. Feelings oriented. I am primarily kindred spirit were our hearts on our sleeves. Everything is personal for us. No matter how hard we try to make it otherwise. And because we have that, uh, sense of sensitivity, we are sensitive to others. We tend to be very accommodating. We want other people to be heard and feel good and such. Also good skills for fundraising, different from the core rainmaker skills. And not to say a kindred spirit can’t be goal oriented. And a rainmaker can’t be compassionate and attentive on then mission controller. The analytic introvert bottom left. The Eagle Scout who always gets the job done. Very methodical, systematic plan ful and best at sitting back and listening and absorbing what’s happening. Great listener and observer, which, as we know, is so key to fundraising. So those the styles and they all complement each other and work well together can sometimes frustrate each other. But, um, but those are the styles,

[00:12:01.78] spk_1:
okay? And we each way each most likely have ah, primary and a secondary correct. So you’re you are kindred spirit and mission controller.

[00:12:13.21] spk_0:
Yeah, I am pure introvert. They which surprises people since I do so much public speaking and training. So people who know about the acting profession of lots of actors actually are shy or introverted, and you get in front of an audience and you do your thing.

[00:13:37.94] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. They help you build relationships with journalists because of a relationship built by turn to the New York community. Trust got to features in The Wall Street Journal. That’s what happens when you have the existing relationship. And then when you want to be heard, the newspapers, the outlets, they take your calls. But you gotta have the relationship set up ahead of time. That’s what turn to is gonna help you do build those relationships. They specialize in working with nonprofits. One of the partners, Peter Pan A. Pento, was an editor at The Chronicle of Philanthropy. The right turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to boards and asking styles. Perfect example of that. Aside from Brian Saber, uh, I’m seeing a lot of interviews with Sasha Baron Cohen because he has a Borat sequel out, and he has said, I’ve read it in online and I saw an interview with him. Eso he said a couple times. He’s primarily a shy, shy guy, but you know, he has characters who are obviously grandstanding. No, it alls, you know, it’s off, but s Oh, absolutely, And I and you people can go to asking matters dot com and you could find out which one of these you are right. You right. You could just do three minute little three minute quiz or so right?

[00:14:03.18] spk_0:
Exactly. Thank you. Yeah. You want it to be true. False questions. True. False? Yes. No, you know.

[00:14:10.12] spk_1:
And you The site admonishes us. Don’t spend a lot of time e I already did it. I didn’t just do it last night knowing we’re gonna prepare. I already know that. I’m, uh I’m primarily a kindred spirit as well. By birth. I’m a kindred spirit by birth but a go getter by practice and

[00:14:28.55] spk_0:
teach your primarily kindred spirits secondarily. Go getter.

[00:14:31.79] spk_1:
Yeah, secondary. Go get e No. Yeah, yeah.

[00:14:34.64] spk_0:
Pure, pure. Intuitive is what it’s saying. Massive, intuitive. Yeah, a lot of gut on the idea. Not a lot of planning percent. That’s a problem. A problem you got a plan ful person to about right? Yeah,

[00:14:49.44] spk_1:
I know. Now we need all four. But that’s why that’s why I’m not on any boards. Just do it. We’ll look back in six months.

[00:14:57.59] spk_0:
I’m not on any boards either. As a matter of fact, it seems it feels like a busman’s holiday to me. And I’m going when they’re gonna want me to fundraise. Andi. I’m not a big process person. Like go getters are much more into process. So Andre and I, over the years had to figure this out because she was pure process. Idi ated out loud, you know, lots of ideas. She could sit for hours and my eyes would plays over like I can be very cut to the chase. The Mission Control. Okay, let’s just do it. Let’s just lay it out. Let’s just get to the details and do it. And we finally realized that our meetings could only be a certain length of time. And I say all that because that been a challenge for me, with boards and any groups at all where I’m sitting there and I’m a little impatient, like Okay, let’s I just want to move to the next thing. I don’t want everyone talking and processing. I’m happy to go with someone else’s idea. Let’s just move it along. Three.

[00:15:52.31] spk_1:
Our brainstorm session is such a three hour brainstorm session is such a bore?

[00:15:57.24] spk_0:
E identified something in the 1st 10 minutes way Had something in the 1st 10 minutes. What? What did you say? Say it again the idea seemed pretty good to me exactly three

[00:16:11.09] spk_1:
hours ago. We could’ve had lunch and dinner by now.

[00:16:13.21] spk_0:
Exactly. Caught a good movie and come back just for the conclusion. First

[00:16:27.74] spk_1:
it sounded pretty good to me. Oh, right. Exactly. Contrary. Thio Brainstorming ideation session. All right, so, um all right, so let’s apply this to the board. So, as you had said, it helps if we know who is what. What is who on the board. What do we have? Do we have a imbalance of rainmakers and no process people to back them up, you know? Right. So we need tohave way. Need to have a balance,

[00:19:11.44] spk_0:
right? I mean, think of any planning session. Let’s let’s say you’ve got right now. There’s so many issues nonprofits, air facing. So let’s say it’s an issue of Well, what programming do we go forward with knowing that the current conditions are going to probably last into next summer? Okay, let’s make that assumption is aboard. Here we are. What are we going to do? Is an organization so the rainmaker is going to say Okay, well, what’s the goal? Right? What’s the goal of all of this? What outcomes. Do we want what we want to? Um, you know, we want to maintain We want Thio, serve our clients as well as we can. We want to stay fiscally responsible that then you have the go getter. Who’s saying the visionary who saying, Well, this could be the opportunity to pivot right opportunities, not problems, solutions, not problems. Let’s think out of the box. This could be the chance. We were looking for the kindred spirit. The very heart oriented person is saying, Well, we can’t forget the clients. We can’t forget the staff, you know, we need to you know, it’s really important that we come through for everyone, whether it makes the most financial sense or long term sense or not. And the Mission Control is saying Okay, great. I agree that we have that goal. I agree. You know, we could be something different. I agree. We have to care about people. But how are we going to get it done? It has to be realistic. And you can see where If you have an entire board of one or the other, you’re you can’t get the work done, right? Right. You need someone to check what you’re doing. We all need checks and balances and we need different voices. So once you look at the style so that you can see where if you’re going to do strategic planning, you need to have the four styles around the table to come out with a strong plan. Otherwise, you’re gonna have a plan that’s missing either the goal and outcomes or the big picture or the heart or the structure. And then and then you’ve got to fund. Then you’ve gotta work your way back into it Too late. Okay, way made a plan. But now Wow. Turns out we don’t know how toe executed because we didn’t have any mission controllers in the group or, you know, we didn’t think big enough. We went right into the weeds because we didn’t have our visionary in the group and so forth. So

[00:19:39.34] spk_1:
let’s talk about recruitment. If we’re, uh we’re gonna bring folks onto the board. Uh, you want this to be one of the factors I mean, there, there, obviously, you know, we need accountants. Maybe, you know, whatever. Whatever skill sets, you have gaps. And of course, those those really are predominant in your board selection. But you’d love for folks to find out what these potential board members asking styles are. Yes. So send them toe asking matters dot com as your recruiting them.

[00:19:44.29] spk_0:
Yeah, right. Wait three

[00:19:46.87] spk_1:
minutes. They print the report. Okay,

[00:20:13.04] spk_0:
Sorry. We don’t want you any go getters by you know, the reality for almost every night fucking is. We don’t get to pick and choose that much when we’re looking for board members. So some organizations really can. Others, at the very least, though, can say, Okay, we’re looking at our board, and we really seem to be missing kindred spirits. That’s bad. So lets

[00:20:15.89] spk_1:
you gotta have your You gotta have your kindred spirits. That’s

[00:20:18.26] spk_0:
bad. Absolutely. Eso eso when we go out, let’s keep that in mind, right, Because we might have more candidates and way might have more candidates, and we could put on in any one point. We might be bringing people on in classes, and we might want this first class to include another kindred spirit or two, and we might put off other people for a year. So it’s another factor. It’s not just a factor in who to choose, but how to understand who you’re choose, right? How to understand maybe what they’re saying and where they’re coming from. And to be ableto envision how that person would interact on the board, given that person style and the style of the board to get a sense of whether the person fits in or how the person would fit in. So it it not only helps you choose but helps you understand what you’re

[00:21:20.83] spk_1:
and you may not have. As you said, you may not have the luxury of selecting from half a dozen, you know, potential board members. So at least the one person that is before you know what his or her style is. And, as you said, how they’ll how they’ll work with the rest of the board. Right? Okay, okay. And and this applies for the for the CEO to write mean CEO board chair relationship. Don’t we want to know where those were? Those two folks stand

[00:21:40.34] spk_0:
right? I mean, you’re not going to choose one based on their style, but based on their style that they’re going to have different strengths and challenges and in their in their roles as the two leaders and in terms of how they work together. Because you, if you’ve gotto generally, the CEO is reporting to the board share most regularly. If the relationships going well, they’re meeting regularly. The chair is, in a way, guiding the CEO. The CEO is guiding the chair, Um, and so if you’ve got a chair, who’s a go getter and you have a CEO who’s a mission controller, especially when you have people who are diagonal to each other on the grid? Okay, who are you might call them polar opposites. There could be a challenge working together. One wants all this detail, the others flying by the seat of their pants. Ones, you know, very sensitive to criticism. The others just throwing it out there, vice.

[00:22:50.24] spk_1:
Because because if there if there, uh, diagonal diagonal to each other, then you’ve got You’ve got an intuitive extrovert. Uh, no. An intuitive introvert working with an analytical extrovert,

[00:23:15.24] spk_0:
right? I know. As a kindred spirit, intuitive introvert, that rainmakers, thes analytic extroverts can challenge me. I can get a little anxious because they’re very assertive. And for may I read assertive sometimes to personally, they’re not doing anything wrong, right? They’re just they’re being themselves. They’re bringing certain traits to the table, and I’m reading them a certain ways of kindred spirits. So now if I know, uh, this is why we might be having that challenge. We could talk it through and and at least understand each other better, like in any relationship. Um, in any personal friend relationship, any relationship, understanding the other person helps you depersonalize what’s happening.

[00:25:34.41] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Tony is take two. I’ve got a webinar coming up It is. Start your plan. Giving in 2021. It’s a quick shot is gonna be just 50 minutes in and out. We’re gonna talk about what plan giving is how to identify your best prospects, where to start your plan giving program, how to market and promote your new program. And then I’m gonna leave plenty of time to answer your questions, which actually is my favorite and arguably the most important thing. Getting your questions answered. So there’s plenty of time for that. That’s it. Join me. It’s Thursday, November 19th, three o’clock Eastern time, which means two o’clock central, which means one o’clock mountain, which means noontime Pacific. No discrimination here by time zone. I do not discriminate against time zones. Everybody’s everybody’s. Everybody’s got a time. That’s the way it is. So, uh, quick shot. How to start your plan? Giving or start your plan giving start your plan to giving in 2021. You sign up for the webinar at planned giving accelerator dot com slash webinar. I hope you’ll be with me. That is, tony is take two. We’ve got plenty of more time for boards and asking styles You have, ah, formula. I don’t want to scare. People were math, math phobic, but very simple formula. You say teamwork plus camaraderie equals synergy. Yes, what’s behind that involved? There’s no there’s no regression analysis. You don’t have to know absolutely sine or cosine or tangent or or anything

[00:25:34.89] spk_0:
like that. Absolutely nothing. I was thinking. I was trying to think through as I was developing this book, what I wanted to say and why. And I came up with that, that that having the best board a board that really is on fire, if you will to me involved, uh, involves two things or is dependent on two things one teamwork, the ability teamwork is respecting everyone being able to hear other voices, uh, respecting decisions that come out of committee and so forth, respecting everyone sitting around the table and having an equal voice and things like that. That’s teamwork. And, um uh, Michael Davidson who? I do a lot of work with his quote in the book. He’s

[00:26:25.70] spk_1:
He’s been on the show

[00:26:26.81] spk_0:
e adore Michael and I’ve learned so much about governance from him over the last two decades. I’ve known him actually about almost 20 years because we met at Hudson Guilt. He was doing work for them, and I was working for them. Uh, and he talks about teamwork a lot because he’s a rower, as you know, and you have to be a strong team, you’re not gonna get anywhere.

[00:26:52.84] spk_1:
His company logo is is a right right,

[00:27:25.04] spk_0:
the board coach and it’s rowing and he talks about so he talks about teamwork. He talks about how you can do your job. If you don’t know what it is, you won’t do it. If you don’t think everyone else is doing it right, you have to be a team. It’s one of the reasons why I think everyone has to fundraise on the board because that’s what makes the strongest fundraising team. Not having a fundraising committee and saying over those five people are responsible for all the fundraising board is going to dio, so teamwork is very important and camaraderie. You also have to like each other not to be friends, but to you need to find it worth being in someone else’s company. And even if someone is very different from U. S. O. U. And that comes from getting to know people, not Onley sitting around the board table. But in a more familial way, it’s That’s the reason why some of these social engagements just before, after a board meeting, having board members go out to dinner together. All of that is really important. That’s why they do it in the corporate world, right? That’s why there are all these team building events. They build camaraderie, not just on the camaraderie helps the team work. But

[00:28:08.93] spk_1:
I don’t have Thio build the comrade. I don’t have to walk across hot coals barefoot

[00:29:29.74] spk_0:
E No, I wouldn’t do that either way. Okay? Yeah, No way could just have dinner together. We can have dinner together at one organization. I I had. I had board members in rotating groups of 4 to 6 go to dinner after a board meeting. So there were six board meetings during the year and twice a year each board member went out with a different group of people. So everyone got to have dinner with everyone during the year and such. It helped, Um, so when so looking at the asking styles, you can understand better how to work as a team. And you can also understand what, what types of activities would help build camaraderie? Because we’re all not going to like the same things. I, as a kindred spirit, don’t want to go to a big party with the whole board. I’d much rather go to a small dinner or just have a one on one coffee, right? If I could do that with a few board members, over time, I’m golden. I build that relationship if you send me Thio. The board president’s house to schmooze with all the other board members doesn’t work as well for me. Given my style, it doesn’t mean you don’t do it, but just a ZX with training and other things, you have to have a variety of activities to appeal to everyone. Just like you have to let people have a variety of stories to tell their own stories because everyone’s gonna go to tell the different ones. So eso building camaraderie, um, you do have to proactively work it. It part of that it overlaps both is making sure everyone has a voice right that everyone feels they are part of this group, that they’re integral to it, that people hear them see them. And so it goes back and forth, the teamwork and the Senate and the camaraderie. And that’s what gives you the synergy. So that’s how I came up with that concept. Okay? Yes. Okay.

[00:30:38.54] spk_1:
You you talk about Well, actually, before we talk about some process for meetings like making sure voices get heard, you have some concrete ideas. How about a story? Can you, uh, can you share something? In the 20 years of asking styles where you’ve seen a team, whether board or not, I mean, board would be ideal improve their outcomes because they became asking styles aware they became they were red pilled and finally e saw the saw the wisdom of asking styles.

[00:32:40.04] spk_0:
Wow, we’re going there. You? Mm. Well, I constantly hear stories. There’s someone on the website I often hear from from executive director slash CEOs who have these ah ha moments about their board chairs for sure who have these Ah ha moment about their boards, Whose then see the challenge, why their board is so challenged in some way and can address that. Who? Who realized g. I’m providing staff often say I’ve given the board all this information. I don’t know what why they why they keep asking the truth of matter is have they read it all? And if they’ve read it, have they interpreted it all and stuff? And the truth that matter is that we’re not necessarily giving every board member the information they need. So I constantly hear these ah ha moments from staff who say, Now I know what this board member needs. If I’m going to engage this board member effectively in fundraising, this is what I have to give this board member. I’m giving them the wrong information. So I hear that a lot that that has really helped. I did some work with Esperanza Academy, which is a private 100% tuition free and privately funded girl school north of Boston. Um, it might be in Lowell. I’m trying to remember where they are now. On. I worked with their head of development and then did a training herself and said it was extraordinary how how the asking styles moved her board ahead. There was a fundraising in terms of working with each other. It just took it, took them to, Ah, a whole new level. And I think I’ve always felt the beauty of the styles is that she point before you don’t have to know any big logarithms. There’s no jargon or anything. It’s very simply put, e don’t use fund these words and and all of this stuff e talk very plainly about it in the styles are very plain. I don’t try to make this scene like, uh, you know, like the you know, what is it? The theory of relativity, The theory of relativity.

[00:33:20.95] spk_1:
That’s where you get into cosign on C can’t

[00:33:23.16] spk_0:
exactly or pie or whatever Very straight

[00:33:27.13] spk_1:
first, unjust non jargon.

[00:33:29.54] spk_0:
Yeah. And so yes, so tons of ah ha moments. Um uh, respecting people to work with each other differently, working harder to make sure all voices are heard. Um uh,

[00:33:43.66] spk_1:
let’s pick up on that. Voices are heard. You have some. As I was saying, you have some concrete ideas about board meetings, making sure some folks you gotta check with them in advance, etcetera. So what? Her voices get heard at board meetings,

[00:34:04.24] spk_0:
Right? Well, I, for one, virtually never talk in a large group as a kindred spirit of mission controllers Air similar. I don’t often give my opinion in front of a large group. I don’t often ask a question. I don’t take up a lot of time in a group like that. Um, so I might have a very valid and important point that the group needs to hear that the chair wants everyone to hear. And I’m simply not going to express it in the group. And you see the people I trigger. I train all the time. You have guests all the time. You know which guests you have thio work harder, thio, or give the or wait longer to allow them to pull their thoughts together. That’s happening around the board table. And it’s happening even more so now with the video that with Zoom because everyone does tend to talk over each other. It’s hard to know when to stop. It’s harder than it was in person. Looking around the room where you feel it, you feel who’s going to talk next, Right here. You’re not sure. And then two or three people blurt out at the same time. So someone like me is going to be even less likely to participate because that blurting out and talking over someone is more awkward for me. Yeah, so

[00:35:20.44] spk_1:
you get into that rhythm where everybody stops on, then you beats and everybody talks. Everybody stops to more beats everybody, you go ahead. So then they all go ahead to beats later, right? Yeah.

[00:35:31.89] spk_0:
Dance, right. It’s a and I’m not going to do that dance. Necessarily. A lot of people won’t. So So if

[00:35:42.34] spk_1:
I promise that I won’t be, uh, talking over you, I’m just being a smart ass.

[00:35:46.35] spk_0:
Me to s o a chair. A smart chair who really wants everyone’s voice heard and taken into account needs to either reach out to those board members in advance and solicit their opinion or specifically call on them, make time for them right When I train, I look around that room and we’ll actually in advance of training. I will ask the CEO or whoever engaged me. Who should I be watching out for in one way or another who’s going to talk too much? And I’ve got to make sure that person doesn’t monopolize, are training who’s not going to talk because And regardless of what I’m told in advance, I see who’s not participating and I make sure everyone’s participating. It’s not that they don’t want to, or that they don’t have anything to say. It’s just that this is a tough venue for them. Be in a room with 25 other people and all the noise and people talking over each other. So you either have to solicited in advance or solicited in the room or solicited afterwards or send out a questionnaire, asked people by email to tell you in advance, you have to make sure that everyone’s voice is heard,

[00:37:12.83] spk_1:
and that’s a part of teamwork and camaraderie to ZX respect. Yes, yeah, that you’ve become aware. Now you’re red pilled. You know, some people are not gonna speak at the meeting or being very. It’s gonna be uncomfortable for them to do it. You have to make allowance for that. And that s so that builds up your That builds up teamwork and camaraderie. People feel respected there, literally being heard

[00:37:51.73] spk_0:
right now. Some people just, you know, talk a lot and don’t mean to cut anyone else off and want to hear the voice. And then there’s some people who just want to hear their own voice. And actually, one of the pieces of board membership is it’s not for everyone. You have to believe in teamwork. You have to believe that the team comes first. I’m not saying that the styles in any way can identify who would want to be on a team or not, because it’s much more complicated than that. But but there are challenges to group work, and those challenges impact certain styles more than others,

[00:38:12.92] spk_1:
Right? So yeah. All right, let’s talk about fundraising. How does this out of the styles impact board? Fundraising? Yes.

[00:40:53.41] spk_0:
So that we’re working on the whole decade, obviously. Uh, yes. Since they asking style started from a fundraising bend. It’s a very critical ways. The first one which we talked about earlier which is the number one way, is in terms of the story that each board member is going to tell. What is a board member going to stay in the in the most? In the simplest format, you run into someone, and the person said, Well, tell me about X y Z organization. What is it? You is a board member going to say to try to excite that person? What’s your story that is going to be impacted by your style? Whether, as we talked about it, whether it’s very goal on, strategy oriented, visionary oriented, hard oriented plan oriented? Okay, then you have Well, how is each of you going to go about this process of identifying and cultivating and maybe asking for money? And I say, maybe asking because the most important roles Board member, the most important role of board member can have in fundraising in my mind is the identifying, cultivating, thanking, recognizing piece everything but the ask. When it comes to the ask, some board members will ask on their own or with other board members. But in most organizations, you could bring the executive director and head of fundraising or someone else, to sit there in the room with you and actually say, tony, would you consider a gift of $10,000 for X y Z? Um, it’s all the other work that’s so important Thio for board members to help with. And that’s where style really matters. How are you going about going to go about cultivating as a board member? What’s comfortable for you? You have to take into account to some extent what what works for the donor? We don’t know. We usually don’t know the donor style, but if we don’t ask board members to do things they’re comfortable with, they’re going to be reticent about doing them. And they may not do them well, right? Well, I don’t want I don’t want to send my board members out out to slaughter, basically, by sending them out to do things they won’t do well and it doesn’t serve the organization well, so eso I will would think through if I have ah, big special event. My extroverted board members ago ended be better ambassadors of those events than the introverts who don’t tend to go up to people they don’t know and engage them in such. They’re going to be better at one on one effort. Uhh. Some people are going to be better at communication written communication, writing lovely emails with lots of great information in them. Some are going to be better at picking up the phone and having a quick chat on dhe. People will partner in different ways based on their styles.

[00:41:41.91] spk_1:
Time for our last break dot drives that drives engagement dot drives relationships. Dot drives is the simplest donor pipeline fundraising tool. It’s customizable, collaborative, intuitive. If you want to move the needle on your prospect and donor relationships, get the free demo for listeners is also a three month. You know that you go to the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. We’ve got but loads more time for boards and asking styles.

[00:43:06.10] spk_0:
So if I would like, um uh, I have a donor in mind and I bring something. The table is the CEO or the chief fundraiser, a za kindred spirit. I may look around to see who compliments me on the board, right? Or if I’m let’s say I someone has a relationship, OK, Soo is a go getter, and Sue has a relationship to this donor, so I want to go with Sue? Well, I’m a kindred spirit and Susan go getter and whoa! It turns out that our donor is a mission controller. So now how am I going to engage? So what is the best role for Sue? Is the go getter to play? And what might we have to watch out for? Right? How would we wanna make sure Sue doesn’t trip over herself? A za go getter going with me to see a mission controller? So it gives me a road map as the staff member, or certainly is the board members to how I could be effective, what my challenges might be. Even in the initial contact, we talked about this all the time of asking matters that from kindred spirits and mission controllers are much less likely to just pick up the phone and call someone out of the blue, even if it’s just calling to make an appointment. I don’t I never liked the phone, and I feel lucky that most of my career has been in the age of email. I will almost always email first if I know. I don’t know. Well, and I know the donor just wants me to call It is different, but most of the time we don’t know who. Uh, we don’t We don’t know people that well and I’m going to I’m going to write first by email. And if I know a board members that way, I’m not gonna push my board member to pick up the phone. I’m going to say, Do what’s comfortable for you If it’s comfortable to send an email, Do that. If you know the person well enough to send a text and the text. If calling and trying to catch that person is what works for you do that, so I help the asking styles help bring fundraising to the board member in a way that’s palatable.

[00:44:01.99] spk_1:
Got some ideas about you. Caption it. Under keeping board members committed, exposing board members to program Share your ideas there.

[00:44:57.99] spk_0:
Most board members do not experience or or view programming often enough. Board members come to organization excited by what you’re doing. They have a lot of passion. Yeah, I’m on the board now. I’m so committed. I love what you do and then end up spending almost all their time in board meetings that are mostly about procedure and budget and can be very dry the most organizations today or bringing program staff for program participants to board meetings on a regular basis. I hope everyone listening today is doing that, and so board members get some exposure the 10 or 15 minutes every two months. But that’s minimal. Board members have to C programming ideally, in person right now. That’s really hard. Maybe through zoom through video, maybe through a Q and A with various program directors and such. And again, the asking styles will impact what type of interaction will keep board members committed. So if I want to keep my mission controller board member committed, I need to keep focusing on the plans and making sure the board that board member feels good that we’re going about our work in a very methodical, systematic, well thought out way. That’s what and to share all the information about plans because the Michigan that that is the material that the Mission controller board member can absorb and appreciate. I’m not gonna do that for the go getter. The go getter isn’t gonna look at those plans, right? The go getter is gonna wanna have a telephone call with the program director with a or Or meet lots of participants and engage those participants and maybe participate in programs, whereas some people might feel it a little awkward to do that, the go getter will jump right in. So for my go get a board member, I might do that for my rainmaker. You know, a ZX. You can see the same themes keep coming up with this idea of strategy, vision, heart and plan strategy, vision hardened plan. So you got it. You have to bring that to each board member and then bring that into the It’s the meeting.

[00:46:43.30] spk_1:
I would rather you say the heart first. Uh, that’s the kindred spirits. I’ll fix it in post production. I’ll move.

[00:46:55.26] spk_0:
You do that. You do that. The only way I can always keep everything straight is to always go go clockwise. Yeah, no matter what I do, I’m always saying Rainmaker, go Gator. Kindred spirit, Mission Control and using my hands to remind me now that everything is vision is Elektronik. I’ve actually the vision. The image is reversed on the screen. And now that ever you could see my hands, I’ve had to learn like yoga, teachers and others. Yes, you gotta be. Oh, right. Yeah, exactly. So it’s a new skill I’ve learned the last seven months

[00:47:23.99] spk_1:
you’ve got. You’ve got the benefit of no video here. Yeah,

[00:47:26.58] spk_0:
exactly. Like my hands doing anything.

[00:47:34.08] spk_1:
Audio podcast. Yes. Mm. Alright, What else? What else do you wanna? You wanna talk about that? We haven’t talked about around asking styles in the board

[00:47:39.82] spk_0:
asking styles. And

[00:47:41.33] spk_1:
you wrote a whole book, for God’s sake.

[00:47:42.97] spk_0:
Yeah, I can imagine

[00:47:43.91] spk_1:
more. There’s more than what I asked you what

[00:47:48.45] spk_0:
it is, though, you know, though, I don’t want to scare people off either. And as you know, tony, it’s not a big book, and it’s purposely not a big look. It’s actually only 16,000 words. If people know anything about books, it’s only 100 pages because there are lots of beautiful full color photos and graphs and things like that. It’s a book you can read in a two sitting,

[00:48:06.04] spk_1:
which I appreciate. I like all the photos, something the pictures I sometimes have authors on. I’ll say, you know, there’s no pictures or there’s not enough

[00:48:13.77] spk_0:
well in my books. The only book in full color. I want to say that cause I’m really proud of it. It costs a lot more to make it, but, uh, but the styles Aaron color right? The graphics are so so. It’s actually very pleasurable book. And the reason for that It’s really important for every board member to read it right.

[00:48:29.73] spk_1:
Easy read. Do it over a weekend easily. You could do it in a day if you had to, but yes, so we hope

[00:48:52.16] spk_0:
to say, you know, today we covered a lot of the major points in it, about about recruiting, camaraderie, teamwork, telling her story, leadership and such. Those are the major piece in the book. The one thing I’ll say is that you’re pushing the book, I guess, is that it has a bunch of exercises and questions to ask yourself is Well, and the important thing is not is not to believe that G if I if I’m going to address the challenges on my board, it’s got to be some big project I need to bring in a consultant or boy, this is gonna be a lot of hard work. There are lots of small steps you can take.

[00:49:15.92] spk_1:
Yes, you finished the book with the next steps?

[00:50:03.86] spk_0:
Yes and yes. And all along the way there are some exercises the next time you have zoomed called do a breakout room and just ask. People spend five minutes saying, Okay, my style is this. What does that mean for how I work with you or something? You’re going to build teamwork and camaraderie. And so I want people to take away that that make improvements toe how your board operates, which is so vital to how your organization gets through this and thrives in the future. Uh, does not have to be a big, overwhelming project through the asking styles and lots of other means. You can take small steps and get there. The

[00:50:08.46] spk_1:
book is a pleasure. It’s a pleasurable pleasure to read. It’s an easy read. You want to know your style. You goto asking matters dot com. Do the three minute survey. Send your board members as a little fun exercise chat about it. That’s you know, that could be a next step, but

[00:50:18.71] spk_0:
absolutely that

[00:50:24.46] spk_1:
a whole chapter of next steps and, like you said questions throughout. Okay, Brian Saber, Thank you very much. Uh, have you. Actually, Absolutely. So the book. Get the book. There is more depth. There is more depth in those 16,000 words than than a lackluster host can cover with, even with an exemplary guest. Eso. The book is boards and asking styles. A roadmap to success matters that asking matters dot com and Brian is at Brian Saber and Brian. Thank you again. Real pleasure. Thank

[00:50:52.97] spk_0:
you. Don’t have a great day. Good luck to everyone.

[00:51:31.56] spk_1:
Thank you Next week next week. I got it here right next week is Oh yes, next week is low cost fundraising software and what’s really happening with non profit revenue. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com. Responsive by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o and by dot drives, raise more money, changed more lives tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant for a free demo and a free month for listeners. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation. Scotty, you with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. Remember, it’s your favorite abdominal podcast. Go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for November 4, 2011: Assess Your Asking Style

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

You can subscribe on iTunes and listen anytime, anyplace on the device of your choice.

My Guest:

Andrea Kihlstedt

Andrea Kihlstedt: Assess Your Asking Style

Andrea reveals what it means to be a Kindred Spirit or a Mission Controller, two of the four asking styles profiled at AskingMatters.com, which she co-founded.

  • How do you prepare for a solicitation based on your asking style?
  • How should different styles be paired together for an ask?
  • And what support do your volunteers need, based on their styles?

We’ll also talk about her book, “How to Raise $1 Million (or More!) in 10 Bite-Sized Steps.

Please take a moment to take the survey for this week’s show! Thanks!

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Here is the link to the podcast: 066: A Conversation With Andrea Kihlstedt
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Dahna welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m your aptly named host. We’re always talking here about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I sincerely hope you were with me last week for nine weeks and a wake up for essentials for your year end fund-raising that was mary allison principle of oneaccord, and she helped you out in the final stretch toward year end. We talked about segmenting and messaging, social media and other online strategies, direct mail and getting volunteers to pitch in everything that she suggested from last week could be executed quickly to get you the help you need before december thirty first and also was your mobile website, our tech contributor scott koegler, the editor of non-profit technology news. Of course, you know that broke down. Whether you need a mobile site, how to develop one and what to include to make yours spiffy and up to date this week. It’s assess your asking style. My guest is andrea kill, stead and she’s going to reveal what it means to be a rain maker or a go getter, which are two of the four asking styles profiled at asking matters dot com, which she co founded how do you prepare for a solicitation based on your asking style? How should different styles be paired together for an ask? What do you how do you support your volunteers and what do they need based on their asking styles? And we’ll also talk about one of her books how to raise one million dollars or more in ten bite-sized steps at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour on tony’s take two. I’m going to talk about the next-gen charity two thousand eleven conference my block post this week says that it will provoke your greatness. Talk about that that’s conferences on november seventeenth and eighteenth and also the results of my challenge from last week. Let’s help kelly for pete’s sake, that was a blogger post challenge. We’re live tweeting this week and we have a guest live tweeter in a dare oklahoma! Thank you very much for stepping in to lead the way on twitter, ian welcome use hashtag non-profit radio to join that conversation on twitter right now we have a couple of messages and after those, i’ll be joined by andrea kill stead we’re going to talk about assessing your asking. Style. And i hope you will stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free concert station. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com all right, welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent with me now is andrea kill stead she’s, a consultant, writer and trainer in fund-raising she’s, the co founder of asking matters dot com and has written two books on fund-raising capital campaigns strategies that work was published by jones and bartlett and is now in its third edition. Her more recent book is how to raise one million dollars or more in ten bite-sized steps published by emerson and church. I’m very pleased that andres work brings it to the show and dry welcome. Thank you, tony it’s a pleasure to be here on go have you we’re talking about asking for gift? Why does someone’s asking style even matter? There is many styles as there are individuals, and when we get into the mode of saying there’s, one way to ask for a gift, we ing for sure increased people’s anxiety and we know that anxiety doesn’t help us help us function in the best way we might. So we came up with a system at asking matters, dividing people into four simple quadrants and encouraging them to ask in the in the style that fits the best, the best asks they’re the ones that authentic that are authentic. And if you ask in an authentic way, you’re likely to connection most effectively to your donor asking style system is set up to help people do that. Is there a psychological basis to the four different types of stuff that the four different styles? Well, i’m certainly not the first person to be talking about stiles myers briggs is the one most people know there’s the disc system of styles. There are a variety of other style systems. I think i’m the first person to take a the notion of styles and apply it to asking there are different between the four quadrants there to two different sets of measures wanted to explain those intuitive etcetera yes, the asking style system is set up on two simple access. If you draw a actually see there’s the technical term actually that’s right, draw a vertical axis on a piece of paper and i invite all of you to do this and at the top. You put down extra virgin at the bottom. You put down introvert. Most of us have some. Notion of which of those we are, so mark yourself as an extroverted and introvert. Then in the middle of that line, draw a horizontal axis line of aboutthe same length and on the right hand side, put down intuitive on on the left hand side, put down analytical that most of us have some sense of which of those we are. If you’re intuitive, you tend to come up with an idea and then see if the world backs you up. You tend to have a gut level about your ideas and big thoughts. If your analytical, you tend to look at the world that the details, and you see what ideas those details amount to collectively. So if you mark yourself on the on the vertical axis and on the horizontal axis, and then you dry drop box around the whole thing, it’ll give you four boxes and lo and behold, for stiles. Okay? And what are the four styles? So in the upper left hand quadrant, where you’re an extrovert and analytic your rainmaker to the right of that where your extra vert and intuitive you’re a go getter underneath go getters? You’re a kindred spirit and to the left of kindred spirit, those are people who are analytical and introvert, those air mission controllers. All right, now i took the asking matters survey, which takes its like, takes like two or three minutes, all right, thirty questions, true false questions, verse and very short on dh. I admit that i spent too long, i think, on some of them. I tried to follow the advice on the site, which says, give your first answer, where there were a couple that i that hung me up. So i’m i found out that i am equally kindred spirit and mission controller, but i was, i was aspiring to go get her. I wanted to be a go getter, so is there. Can you can you have two and aspire to a third? You are, i think everyone should aspire to go get her, okay. So what is the what is the meaning of? I guess i’ll be a little selfish and start with myself. What’s the meaning of ah, a kindred spirit. A solicitor. What does that mean for me? Yes. You know, the kindred spirits among us are the people who think of themselves least as solicitors, but tend to be very good at it because they hang back just a minute before they respond. Which gives the donor and opportunity to talk. And most of us know in the solicitation business, our primary errors that we talked too much. So the people who are who are introverts ten believe a little more air time, very effective and very successful. Way to solicit gift. So my mother was wrong. I don’t talk too much. You know, your mother may have talked too much to her, but i do. Woodstock. Listen, i hope she’s listening. I bet you’re not even listening. You’re not even listening to me saying that i listen, you believe the irony in that? Um okay. Well, that’s cool on dh there’s. Something good there’s. Good news for everybody, right? All four quadrants? Yes. Have have things that are our styles. That people can bring and are valuable to soliciting right that’s, right? I bring up the kindred spirit in particular. Because when we see people who hold back a little more a little more reticent, we tend to think that there they may not be the the sales people among us. But i think both kindred spirits and mission controllers can be fantastic solicitors at least as good as rainmakers and go getters. Okay, she’s bucking for the road. She’s bucking for more air time. But you have the whole hour you’re on. You’re not going anywhere. Okay, so then just a little, but we have a minute or so before break what’s. Ah, mission controller, which is my other one? Yes, a mission controller. I happen to be married to a mission controller, so i know that style particularly well, but it’s, not me. A full disclosure. And jay and i are not married. I know. That’s. True that’s. True. Eso mission controllers are the people who are so responsible. They do all of their homework. They like details. They were read the budget. They’ll want to know all of the numerical information about outcomes. The one on how much it costs, they will gather every piece of information before they go in, solicit a gift, they’ll make a careful plan, they might even write some out, and they will execute it the same way every time so you can count on them. If they say they’re going to do something, they’re likely to do it when they say they’re going to do it the way they say they say they’re going to do it. Fantastic people they have on your team. This is such an ego rush. I’m dying here, okay? We’re live tweeting in a dare in oklahoma city, you better not have tweeted that andre and i are not married. That is not a critical part of the show. You should not be tweeting stuff like that. So you’re doing it wrong if you treated that, i don’t know if you did. We are monitoring here, but i just haven’t taken a look yet on before we take a break. I want to share just some survey results from the from the pre show survey that was on my block. Question one do you consider personality type when assigning relationship managers to a prospect? So not? The ask yet. But just in assigning for relationship management, two thirds said yes, they do, and one third do not. We have some messages. When we come back, andrea kill states. They was with me, and i hope you all do, too, because you didn’t think that shooting getting, thinking, you’re listening to the talking alternate network, duitz get me thinking. It’s. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, a conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic readings. Learn how to tune into your intuition, to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed and the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m samantha cohen from the american civil liberties union. Metoo welcome back, we’re live tweeting the show, and if you want to join the conversation on twitter, use hashtag non-profit radio if you have a question that you want to submit for andrea, please please ask on twitter. You can also call where eight seven seven four aito for one two oh again eight, seven, seven, four aito for one two oh, either way, if you have a question for andrea, kill stead, we’re talking about assess your assessing your asking style and andrey, we’ve been through the two that i am the equal kindred spirit in mission controller what’s a rainmaker? Yes, a rainmaker. The people that we think of really is the quintessential sales sales people, these people tend to be competitive goal oriented. They’re the ones who are likely to take the highest, highest value prospects because they want to be sure to get to the goal they will respond to and be happy to hit, to work with and have challenged grants so that they can motivate a donor for the goal. So the people who perhaps are not the ones who were most keen on stories? No, but because they’re both extroverts and analytic, they’ll be very sensitive to the donor, the style of the person they’re talking to, while at the same time having their arms around all of the facts and the details of the case. The sound is valuable to a solicitation as the equal kindred spirit in mission control that i have any other bets. I’m sure that i’m sure the rainmakers are fine, but i don’t think they’re as good as thie combination, kindred spirit and mission controller on how about the one? I said? I aspired to the go getter? I wanted to be a go getter and i failed testing that respect? Yes, it’s not even a test of service. Really it’s an assessment assessment we came we spent a lot of time coming up with that word it’s an assessment it’s nothing more than that. It’s actually fun. It is fun and interesting and easy to take and nothing particularly deeper. Heavy but but worth worth doing, i think or so and so we hear from mother and i’ll just remind people that you’ll find that assessment at asking matters dot com that’s, right? So what does this guy know? What is the go getter? Well, i’m a go getter, we go getters are very good at big ideas. We have a lot of energy, we tend to pull people towards us with our energy and we can take big ideas and make them fairly simple. We like big ideas. We have much less tolerance for detail, and we’re not as good at closing a gift. For example, as a rainmaker would be aura’s a mission controller would be we like the possibilities, right? We like to say one of the possibilities rather than you know, how can we draw this to a close? And how can we get to the goal? So for us, helpful sometimes to pair us up with someone who’s a good closer? Excellent. We’re going talk about pairings to that, like a fine wine and a fine meal. We compare our asking styles. All right, so between the two of us, you and i have three, three covered. So if there’s anyone who knows that there are rainmaker or thinks that there are rainmaker based on what andrea the guy, the guidelines that andrew gave us earlier, why don’t you tweet and tell us that you think you’re a rainmaker and what? That what that brings the table when you are asking so let’s, talk about asking, then we have no one now if we know our style, preparing for the ask so how would different different styles prepare in different ways? Yes, so go getters, they’re going to want to prepare with simple bullet points, they’re not going to read over every annual report for the last five years. They’re not going to look at every detail of the budget they’re going to have simple goose bump inducing asking, ah points about the case and about what it is this organisation does and accomplishes probably from a big picture perspective now would they want to prepare those bullet points on their own? Or is that something that and we’re going to talk more detail later about the charity supporting its solicitors? But in terms of this, this type of person, would they want to prepare those those bullet points on their own or haven’t done for them? They’re always helped if someone can can sit with them and say, here are the bullet points i think about, but a go getter is going to be happy to talk about them, so if you’re if someone is a go getter and you can actually have a five minute conversation saying, what do you find exciting and moving about this organization? Get them to articulate it out loud that will work very well for a go getter. How about the other styles in terms of preparing for that for that important solicitation? Yes, if you’re working with a mission controller, i encourage you to send them a full package of information. Well, in advance of the time you want them to go out and ask for gifts, they will take the time to read it and take the time to master the material. They’re not going to want to go out from one minute to the next you want don’t want to ask him to mark today to go out tomorrow, you’re going to want to give them enough time to really prepare thoroughly it’s in their nature, to want to do that kindred spirits i would spend asked him to spend some time with you on sight, seeing the people you serve. These were people whose hearts are touched by watching the work in the field on they’ll learn from from watching. That’s, right? And they all convey that is exactly right. They too, are not particularly interested in huge amounts of information or detail. They’re interested in the stories that make their hearts warm and the last one we don’t talk about rainmaker. The rainmaker is the rainmakers combine these things they’re good at being charismatic in the same way go getters are, but they’re going to want to master the materials in the same way mission controllers do so give them time, give them information, make sure it’s all organized and systematized so they don’t get frustrated. One of the other survey questions i asked before the show was do you consider personality type when deciding who should ask for a gift? And almost ninety two percent said yes, they definitely do, and then the remainder no, so yes, and let me just say something that i think i think we underestimate the capacity of people who are not the obvious askar sze that’s, one of the neat things about this asking style assessment and and being able to look at each style from what they can do and what we work for them rather than saying some people can do this and some people can’t think that’s a mistake, we we underuse people that way, and we might also base that conclusion on what people say themselves. Oh, i can’t i can’t ask now, that’s different than i don’t want to ask. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And i mean my own belief is that pretty much anybody can ask and ten can do a good job if you work with them in a way that will support them. So the value of the site is send them and buy them. I guess we’re talking about professional solicitors, right? Professional fund-raising as well as, of course, here’s boardmember staff members, development committee members, anyone who’s thinking about getting involved or being part of your development shop can and should take the assessment. In fact, you can a very interesting conversations with people comparing and contrasting asking styles, and that then gets them talking about asking, you know, it’s, an effective conversation have and fun and fun becomes going around a board room, board table or it doesn’t have to be only the board that’s that’s helping other majors, major donors may be soliciting as well. You know, i found that that there are a number of boardmember boards that have had all the board members take the aston style assessment, and then they have analyzed the board according to asking style, how many do we have? Mission controllers? How many do we have kindred spirits and then had a lively conversation to say, well, what does this do to shape our board and how it functions? Turns out to be pretty rich material and the other party to the solicitation that we haven’t talked about yet is the donor the donor prospect themselves? How would we ah, how would we assess should we figure it out on their on our own? Should we send them to the to the assessment? What do you what’s your life there? Yes, well, it’s always handy if you do know a donor style, of course, and the field we’ve talked some about trying to adapt our style to fit a donor style. I believe that mostly when we’re anxious which most of us are one we solicit, gifts were not very good at being adaptable and mostly we don’t know the donorsearch style, so i think we’re better off starting from a style in which were most comfortable and understanding very simple. This very simple style quadrant system helps us become a little more attuned to how the donor’s responding. So for example, if i’m a go getter and i’m giving big ideas and i see the donorsearch art to ask questions about details, it might dawn on me that he’s a different style than i am, and i might want to provide him with a different kind of information. Do you like to see people take time to try to figure out which style the donor is in advance, or is that really hard to figure out about about someone else? And, you know, there certainly are some donors that we know quite well, and then we could do some kind of an assessment to relating to that if we don’t know a donor well, it’s a pig in a poke, so we might as well go in with our style and have some try to have tried to have some awareness that there are people are donors who who respond differently. Andrea kill state is with me and she’s, the co founder of asking matters dot com we’re talking about assessing your asking style, how about supporting volunteers of the different types? So if someone is the the one that’s not represented between the two of us eyes a rainmaker, how would you? How would the charity support the rain making the rainmaker volunteer before solicitation? Yes, it’s a wonderful question i charity would support a rainmaker by me being sure they had all of the information to review beforehand and well in advance before hand that they know very clearly what the goal is and not only the goal, but even a stretch goal, the rainmakers, they’re going to want to be competitive and they’re going to want to go get to the goal exceeded and even blast through it. So you want to give them something that helps them understand what happens if we go over the goal? Where will that money go? How will we use it? You might want to encourage them to consider making their own gift into a challenge for the people that they’re talking to. Oh, interesting, okay, they’re going to respond to that and rainmakers also like to work in a team. Sometimes an organization in their annual fund, for example, can create teams and have a rainmaker lead a team of two or three solicitors have a little mini competition going between teams. Rainmakers are going to rise to that. Excellent. They love that challenge, you know. Okay, how about your style? The go getter? How would a charity help prepare that person? Yes, i talked to a go getter in advance. Find out what lights that go, get her up and help them talk about it and articulated to other people. If they start practicing their own words, they’ll be set to go. I would not give those people six or eight or even five prospects at a time because they’re not as good organizing, organizing their information as others are, give them one or two, they’ll do it when the mood strikes them and then give them a couple more. So pierre so dull prospects out a little more careful, like the year go getters. One of the survey questions i ask before the show is who is responsible for supporting your volunteer solicitors, which is what we’re talking about now supporting the different asking styles and sort of a mixed bag of about fifty percent said no one person has the responsibility? Actually, that was, um so there’s about sixty percent. Um, and then about twenty five percent said that the only fundraiser in the shop is responsible for that. And another group about the same because people could pick more than one select one choice said i’d better listen to the show because we don’t use volunteers solicitors that was about twenty five percent. You could have a whole show on that. We have, we have witnesses that they should be listened t should listen to the last show. So when we months ago, we talked about firing up your board fund-raising with gail perry who you? Yes, and that goes back some time. But wait, we have covered that so so that the volunteers let me just say that, that that of course, they asked the styles applies equally to two staff, as it does to volunteers on, and i think it’s, i’ve i’ve seen development offices that have had very good and lively, effective conversations, having staff members take the asthma style assessment and talking about how they would then support one another or what kinds of information they needed to be effective solicitors. So this while i think it’s a great thing to use with volunteers. I encourage hill development chops to use it is yeah, yeah, the professionals, of course, yes. Do you have a story that in your own experience as where you really felt that knowing that you’re a go getter helped you in doesn’t have to necessarily be a solicitation, but helped you in some situation? Yes, in a number of ways, as a go getter, i always like to get someone who will support me and the things that i don’t do so well, so i know that i love thinking outside the box. I know that i that i don’t like to be like to tie things down, so if i can have someone come with me and actually tie down and ask, sort of kick me under the table and i’m still blue skying about all the exciting things weaken d’oh, it’s very helpful then, then i just can’t take that. Q. I think i can quiet down a little and have someone else take and bring the gift home very, very effective for me. I ran for many years a concert siri’s and raised all of the money for it actually tickets were free and because it was easier for me to raise money than it was to sell tickets, and when i found was that i couldn’t, i could get people excited about this concert siri’s very easily was harder for me to actually tied down a dollar amount, so i did get some other people to help me with that who were of cover and restart time and complimentary stoploss exactly we’re gonna have some time to talk about those pairings. Those fine pairing let’s see, before we take a break, i’d like to see what the kindred spirit and the mission controller would would. How charity would support those those two styles for for a solicitation, yes, so kindred spirit, you know, one of the ways to support a volunteer or a staff member is to pair them with is to give them prospects that are going to work best for them. Kindred spirits tend to be a little on the shy side. You’re talking about me now because i’m talking about you. They’re fantastically heartfelt people, but it’s a little harder for them to have people say no to them. Oh, that’s definitely rejections the rejections a little tougher than it is for me for example, someone says no to me, i’m just off on the next big idea can’t stand for any spirits. Having someone say no is hard, so my advice about kindred spirits is give them prospects who were going to say yes, actually quite simple to do that right? Don’t send them to the people who are going to say no, why put them in that position? You don’t have to send people out everyone out on our art gall send to go getter, send a rainmaker out on a heart out on a hard call don’t send the kindred spirit, and if they know they’re going to be going to talk to someone who is likely to say yes, it’s going to make them much happier to do it. So you get a whole group of people who were going to be willing this illicit gifts for you because who doesn’t like success? I just even had the most recent experience of that. Five minutes before the show, i went to the bakery that’s a few doors away, and i asked for whether there was still banana bread and she said no, you felt that i took it personal, they were out of them. They were out of the banana bread. I mean, that’s that’s in a president affront to me. Right? So find out what they have before. You can look in the case first, and then i’ll ask that just to get a yes so shallow just to get the yes, i’ll ask now, theo oh, shallow no, i’ve never been secret about that. I’m definitely shallow, shallow. I just made the little shine. Okay, i met shallow have always been shelling do not tweet that tony is shallow. You dare i’ll shut! I’ll shut you off in oklahoma city if you tweet that, put that ok before, but i was just in a minute before break and we didn’t talk about preparing the mission controller. The mission for soliciting. Yes, information, information information well in advance. Let me know exactly what you’re going to want from them and tell them exactly what they need to master. If they’re going to do a good job, then you can send them to almost anybody. But you might want to think to pair them with someone who’s a little more. Sparky. Right, much as i love mission controllers, and as i said, i’m married to one. They can be a little boring, so you have to be careful, right that you provide a little bit of spark, either by helping them find the language that will add a little sparkle, or by pairing them with someone else who will. I may be the aptly named host of this show, but i’m also shy and boring and on by self admission, shallow. So you’re listening to a shallow charlie boring. No don’t know thiss around. No, no, no it’s, not terrible at all. It’s fun, but what the pairing is important. It sze, great introspection. We’re going to take a break, a few messages, and when we return, it’s, time for tony’s, take too shallow onboarding on dh. Then, of course, andreas stays with me for the rest of the hour, and i hope you do, too. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Kayman are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back, it’s time now for tony’s, take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour. My block post this week is next-gen charity will provoke your greatness. I would love to see you come to the next-gen charity conference, which is on november seventeenth and eighteenth here in new york city two weeks ago, i had the conference co founder jonah helper on this show that was the october twenty first show they are bringing in speakers the likes of craig newmark, the founder of craigslist, sharing his insights for for non-profits my show is a media sponsor, that means i’ll be backstage interviewing speakers as they as they come off stage for later replay on the show. But if you want to go to the conference and see all the speakers because i won’t be able to interview them all, you can save three hundred dollars off the six hundred fifty dollars registration fee using discount code tony radio you can see out on my block at m p g a d v dot com or you can go to next-gen charity dot com and use that discount code tony radio to save three hundred dollars, and i want to send a shout and the thanks. Last week’s block post was let’s help kelly for pete’s sake. A solo fundraiser named kelly asked a question in a linked in group and it was a very good question. Very simple question, but none of the forty five thousand members of that group had an answer. And it would be indiscreet of me to say the name of the group maja link. So it was a very common question. She asked the small. She came from a small shop and she asked, basically, how should i spend my time? And none of the forty five thousand people in motion link had an answer for her, so i blogged about it and about a dozen people little more than a dozen people stepped up and i want to thank you very much for doing that. The post is called let’s help kelly for pete’s sake. You can see the dozen people who commented and there’s also a very heartfelt and thoughtful thanks from kelly thanking everybody for their suggestions. And i thank you also for stepping up and helping kelly and the tens of thousands of small shop fundraisers just like her, that is tony’s. Take two for friday, november fourth. And we’re continuing, of course, to talk about assessing your asking style with andrea kill stead, the cofounder of asking matters. Dot com andrea. Okay, so now i was joking a little about, you know, being boring and shy. And then i added shallow, but but these are not just in case anybody doesn’t get my sense of humor. These air not negative lessons that were supposed to be taking from from what are asking style is is that right, andrea? I’m giving you a chance. Andrea. Thank you. Recover. Yes, i recover. I was i was saying to tony during during the break that i that i really think that the power of the asking stiles is that it puts in a very positive way how each of these four styles can be effective and are effective. So so i think, it’s important that we understand that that mission controllers are fantastic because there’s so responsible they really gather the information. They have it for people. They share it with donors there. They fantastic, for example, for foundation or corporate donors that want all of the detailed information. And material right? You can’t get better solicitors than that kindred spirits because they’re so heartfelt because they really care about what they’re asking for, and if they do it authentically take you know you don’t get better solicitors than that either each of these styles has something powerful to offer, and i just want to make sure that that your humor doesn’t let doesn’t make people think that any of the styles has something wrong with him. The whole purpose of this is to say, we have a much broader group of people who can effectively solicit gif ts and if we engage them in doing that, if we get out the door more, if we get out and ask more, we will yes raise more money. That’s where the rubber meets the road is our our ability or inability to get out and asked people fit for gift face-to-face and the asking style system is just a system to help us do more of that. You know, i feel very strongly my co founder and asking matters, brian saber and i both feel very strongly that that’s the limiter for most of us and most organizations and s in raising money that we don’t get ourselves out the door and asking if you’ve done any capital campaign work ever, you know that that’s why capital campaigns raise much more money because they get people out the door to ask, so look at the askanase thou assessment from that perspective, it’s a motivator to help people understand the way the toe ask that will suit them best, and to help staff members look at people in that light and get them to get out their support them properly. And it’s fun and it’s fun. It’s just a couple minutes i said, i did it myself. Of course it is fun. How about in pairings? We’ve mentioned that we’ve we’ve touched on this, but we haven’t actually talked about pairing solicitors based on their asking. Stiles what? What are the combinations that work well or don’t work well, yes, yes. So if you look at the little box that you might have drawn at your desk earlier, as i was describing the two axes, the pairing works best diagonally. So if you combine a go getter and mission controller, for example, then you have all four quadrants covered all four. All for access points covered. If you pair a rainmaker and a kindred spirit, you have all four access points covered. Now i should say that that that it is my belief that the people people work together most easily in in quadrants that air next to one another. They tend to get married for took in quadrants that air diagonally across from one another. And and i think actually it tends to sometimes you can even pair a pair a donor and someone who is who is diagonally opposed to them, because one will sparked the other. So, for example, a go getter will light may light up a mission controller as long as you have someone to bring the additional material. And the other padron works that way as well. You have a whole revenue stream here. Matchmaking, matchmaking t this should be turned into a metric. We have a show on kruckel turn of about matchmaking we should be so you said you married people tend to marry diagonally. Agonal? Yes, yes, but but but they tend to work most easily when they’re when they’re in the jason and adjacent quadrants. My belief is that the more you talk about the different styles and the more you come to appreciate and understand the styles of your co workers or yours spouse or your partner, the easier it is for us to get together and appreciate the qualities of the contrary. Styles raise more money. Find your life partner that’s what i’m asking that’s, right? Yes, i have a whole another career ahead of me. And you said that people work work well together when they’re paired next to sit next to you. Is that risk? That’s? Right? That’s, right. Working meeting in the office? Yes. People who are intuitive, for example, tend to find it easier to deal with one another. Then they do with someone who’s always act, asking them for the facts, the facts, the facts just the fax, ma’am, right? Those of us who are intuitive tend to get frustrated with that. Those people who are fact space tend to get frustrated with those of us who are good at generating ideas. So if we can again raise that up, raise that conflict up, sort of begin to understand that both are important and that we both bring something valuable to the table. We’ll be able to get along a little more better a little more better. We’ll be able get along a little better. So does this then have implications for the prospect assignment process in deciding not not was goingto prepare first of station but who’s going to be the primary relationship manager for a proper yes, yes, i think it actually does. I think once you get to know a prospect fairly well, it makes some sense to assign someone of us of a similar style to make sure that that prospect gets the information they need in the way in which they take it in most easily. So i think i think yes, as we get to know our prospects, we should have something that indicates in their file what we think they’re style is in fact, i’ve often thought that some of the donor software, if i get if i get sophisticated enough about this business would be nice is some of the donor software programs provided an opportunity to put asking styles and donor styles in that in that material? We don’t have it yet, but it would be a good thing to do. Is it possible, teo? Figure out for someone like me who has to style that came out equally whether one is dominant over the other or no. Yes, i’m glad you raised that when someone takes the asking style assessment online, some people get back a primary and a secondary style some people get back. Equivalence is what happens behind the scenes for that assessment is that we get four numerical scores and the results are based on the numerical scores, so sometimes people come out equal in two scores, as you have mostly we come out with a primary score in a secondary score, and in fact, all of us have a little of each of those styles in us, right? Very few of us or one or the other, though occasionally some of us are are stronger, you know, and have more flip, more fluid ity than than others do. I think on thee asking matters website, you can actually see there were see the write ups of all four styles and somebody could even come to the website and just play with putting different answers in and see what? See what comes up. You could try to be a rain maker. If you want to be a go getter, tony, you can actually plug in all the answers that you think would lead you there and you’ll probably get a go getter. Go get her profile back. Okay? And i answered honestly, the first that’s, right? And i encourage people to do that. But people could also play with it a little something with that, um, and let’s talk about making the case for giving or, you know, yes. Whether i mean, charities typically have a case statement or something, but but in terms of how different style person is goingto make the case to that prospect, how does that very yes. You see, i found that very interesting, really. In organizations, we tend to want to make a case or have an elevator pitch. My belief is that when out of different styles, we think about it differently, we do it differently. We communicate differently. So i think it works wonderfully, actually, to have everybody in a group take, they ask, is that assessment? And then do is cem exercise is getting people to say, well, how would you make how what would your elevator speech sound like? Right in? A room have the mission controllers come up with their elevator speech? Have the rainmakers come up with their elevator speech? They’re going to do it quite differently, right? Mission controller is going to start with details and with outcomes the go getters going to start with, you know, if we do, if we work on this problem, we will change the world in that way, right? Where mission control is not going to think that way. They’re going to think from a detail up to a big picture the people who are into it, if we’re going to think from a big picture down to the detail. So i think these air one it’s wonderful opportunities for exercises to help people come up with thie elevator speech, the case for your organization that comes out of someone most naturally, most comfortably, that sets them up for going and talking to a donor in a way that’s going to feel right to them that leads me to think about then, finally, on this subject, the pairing of solicitors should they repaired in good work teams so that they’re in the quadrants that are next to each other? Is that yes. I would probably pair solicitors diagonally, and in doing that, my one, my one worry always about having two or more people. So is it a gift is that we tend to work on what we’re going to say, so we tend to take all of the air time. If you have two people soliciting a gift, i encourage you to send two people by all means pear diagonally if you can, across the asking styles. But be sure that you leave enough opportunity for questions to get the donor talking, rather than just having the solicitor phil all the time. We have some messages to share with you, and then after that break, andre will stay with me, and we’re gonna have a chance to talk about her most recent book, which is how to raise one million dollars or more in ten bite-sized steps. And i hope you’ll stay with us talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classics or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking all calm. Lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. Durney welcome back, andrea, kill stead and i are talking about assessing your asking style, and i want to make it clear that in order to do that, to assess your asking style, you go to asking matters dot com and it’s it’s all free and available to everyone as a resource to figure out what style you are. We’ll have a chance now to talk about andrea’s second book um, how to raise one million dollars or more in ten bite-sized steps now, this is a smaller version, a condensed version of your first book, right? Yes, or at least it’s, a story’s based version, if you if you will. I was a capital campaign consultant for a great many years and wrote a fairly good sized book on capital campaign fund-raising this is a a ten chapter little chapter book that tells stories about campaigns that that makes clear some of the primary lessons that we need to know if we’re going to raise major gift money. And is your message in using stories that charity that charities should be telling stories themselves in their fund-raising, you know, charity certainly should be telling stories themselves, but if they wanted to have a book like this to give to their board, for example, they’re doing some major fund-raising and want every boardmember teo teo, learn a little more about how to raise money through major gif ts this would be the kind of kind of book you could. You could do that with it’s, a quick read it’s, about forty five fifty minute reed it’s engaging because it tells tales, interesting stories about real people who raised really money and, you know, had various interesting things happen to them through campaigns, but do you like to see charities using their own story? I did, and they’re fund-raising absolutely, yes. I like to see people using stories all over the place we all know there much more interesting than mohr, dry factual information, graphs and charts. A good story has delicate mission controllers like grass and charts, i have to say, but but they like stories, too. Early on in the book you you recommend you actually say it’s pretty important to approach different people in different ways regarding the exact same funding opportunities. How do we do that? Yes, i think that’s a chapter on goose bumps if i the idea really is that we wanted twice in one show, you said the word goose princessa combination ation. I’ve never i’ve been doing this for a year and a half. I don’t think we’ve ever used with everest twice in one show it now it’s overdone. Now, it’s, i won’t mention it again, but but i have to say, if you do have a visceral response, something moves you, then you’re more much more likely to respond to it generously. Now how we’re going to figure out how somebody is going to respond. How sorry, how different people are going to respond to the exact same funding. Yes, there’s a very simple answer to that, and that has asked them. You know what? We’ll find nothing like asking people what in their life overlaps with what you’re doing. Why might they be interested in in the cause of your organization? Does something in their history to something in their current interest, this does something connect with him and you’ll find many, many people have different ways of thinking about her looking at things. So, for example, the story that i use in the in the book is a story of a science center. Yeah, the lancaster, pennsylvania, and the person who founded the center had had some personal experience with dyslexia, and he’d like to hands on on learning because that’s, the way he learned best when he talked to the person who was in the foundation who was controlled sameh germany in the foundation, that person couldn’t care less about dyslexia. That person was interested in bringing tourists to lancaster, pennsylvania. He had a serious interest in doing that. So when when when the founder, jim, started talking about tourism and about how many people would come in the door and what would happen to the downtown if they had an organization like that and down down all of a sudden he found a different kind of response. So of course we need to understand the breadth of responses that we can get for our projects, not just the ones that happened to appeal to. Us. Sometimes we forget how broadly something can can have. Tentacles can have reach your your advice is different than ah, a variation of yeah, of other advice that guests have given, which is you’re saying toe ask the person what? What in your life overlaps with our work. And what i’ve heard in the past is asking, what about our work moves you those are different. Yes, they are different, i think exploring the overlap between the person’s life outside the charity that sir and the charities that’s, right? See, i think my belief is that we spend much too much time talking about our charity and much too little time exploring what turns on a donor, whether it’s, a foundation donor and individual. So i think we need to shift the balance of that right. Instead of spending seventy percent of the time talking telling about us, i think we need to spend at least sixty percent of the time asking about them and there’s that listening and there’s. That listening listener, yes. And listening is tremendously powerful. I recently was talking to someone who solicits gif ts for hot for a hospital. She said, you know, i have a problem with doctors? I have thirty minutes to go in solicited doctor and i spend thirty minutes talking to the doctor and i don’t have really have time to get to get to my pitch. My advice to her was don’t make your pitch spend spend the first fifteen minutes asking the doctor what he’s interested in, and you know what? He’ll end up giving you sixty minutes instead of thirty minutes because you’re interested in him. So let’s begin with a serious interest, a curiosity about our donors, then we can turn translate that into where, where the intersections are in interests between them and our organization, and that is actually very consistent with advice that other guests have given listening, giving, giving time for the donor to speak and for us to be actively listening to right what they’re saying, i think curiosity really is what is what makes us all good at this business? Okay, excellent, which actually leads to something that i saw lana twitter fundchat last month you and i were both on ah a twitter twitter chat called fundchat and you can follow it using hashtag fundchat and someone posted that in preparing for on and ask if they want to put on their game face and you suggested no. Rather why don’t you wear that? You prefer that you prefer to be vulnerable and be curious about the prospect? Yes, well, i find i find that that if someone is genuinely curious about me, i am much more available to them. And i imagine you would find the same thing that if someone really wants to know who you are, what interests you, how we might connect, they’re likely then they start moving towards you as opposed to giving them a wall. What i think of is a wall of words if i tell them about me and make them find the intersection, they’re much less likely to really to really listen and be willing to be vulnerable. That’s, right? And for anyone who’s interested invulnerability? Check out brain a browns ted talk b r e n e brown. She has a fantastic she’s, a researcher on vulnerability. Fantastic ted talk, andrea kill state is a consultant, writer and trainer and fund-raising the cofounder of asking matters dot com, where you can take the assessment and figure out what you’re asking. Style is, and she has written two books on fund-raising andrea, thank you very much for being a guest. Thank you, tony it’s a pleasure to be with you today. Thank you, it’s my pleasure as well. Next week, rachel emma silverman, reporter for the wall street journal and she writes for the journal’s, blogged the juggle, how can you balance work and life in today’s environment? I’m going to talk about that with rachel emma silverman next week with the two of those things work and personal life competing for your time. Also, maria semple are regular prospect research contributor she going to talk about a new linked in feature next week? The volunteer section it has research potential and gives you greater exposure on the on that popular site, and they also have joe ferraro. Next week, the association of fund-raising professionals, westchester county chapter in new york he’s going to talk about their national philanthropy day coming up, keep up with what’s coming up! Sign up for our insider email alerts on the facebook page when i get my banana bread, i’m gonna post that to the facebook page. You’re gonna want to know about that how? Can you live without knowing that especially leading into the weekend? Did you like today’s show, please click the like button, become a fan of the show. Of course you find us at facebook dot com and then the name of this show you listen live or archive you’ve been listening live archive! Find us on art on itunes and you’ll find our itunes paige. If you go to non-profit radio dot net on twitter, you can follow me. The show’s hashtag is non-profit radio used that often our creative producer is claire meyerhoff, our line producer and the owner of talking alternative broadcasting his sam liebowitz. Our social media is by regina walton of organic social media, but today’s live tweeting was by ian, a dare in thank you very much for filling in doing that, i’m tony martignetti this is tony martignetti non-profit radio. 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