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Nonprofit Radio for November 17, 2017: Your Little Brand That Can & The Future Of Email

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My Guests:

Julia Reich & Stuart Pompel: Your Little Brand That Can

Control your brand. Respect your brand. Consistently message your brand. Recruit strong ambassadors for your brand. Julia Reich is from Stone Soup Creative and Stuart Pompel is with Pacific Crest Youth Arts Organization. (Originally aired June 10, 2016)

 

 

Sarah Driscoll: The Future Of Email

Email still rules and it will for a long time. Sarah Driscoll urges you to be multichannel, mobile and rapid responding. She’s from 270 Strategies. (Also from the June 10, 2016 show)

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with see alaska sis, if you made me stomach the idea that you missed today’s show your little brand that can control your brand respect your brand consistently message your brand recruits strong ambassadors for your brand julia rushes from stone soup, creative and stuart pompel is with pacific crest youth arts organization that originally aired june tenth, twenty sixteen and the future of email email still rules and it will for a long time. Sara driscoll urges you to be multi-channel mobile and rapid responding she’s from two seventy strategies and that’s, also from the june ten twenty sixteen show. I’m tony steak, too promote the rollover, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant and by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com you’re not a business you’re non-profit appaloosa accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com tell us they’re turning payment processing into passive revenue streams for non-profits tony dahna em a slash tony, tell us, here are julia rice and stuart pompel your little brand that can welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference we’re hosted by n ten the non-profit technology network. We’re in the san jose convention center san jose, california with me now is julia, right, and stuart pompel they’re topic is the little brand that could multi-channel approach for the small non-profit julia is branding consultant at stone super creative and stuart pompel is executive director, pacific crest youth arts organization julia stuart welcome. Thank you. Pleasure. Pleasure to have you both. Julia. Welcome back. Thank you. From lester’s ntc we are highlighting a swag item at each interview. And it’s, i think it’s only appropriate to start with. And ten non-profit technology network score and which i love the reverse side of as zeros and ones. You have your bits and bits and bytes. I believe that. Anyway. Zeros and ones swag item number one goes into the swag pile. There’s more to come. All right, julian stuart let’s. Talk about the little brandraise multi-channel approach. Small non-profit. Tell us about us. About the organization, please. Stuart okay. Pacific crest is a drum and bugle corps, and a drum and bugle corps is an elite marching band and it’s made up of students who audition it’s, a maxes out at one hundred fifty members. And this is a group that performs on field competitions and civic events. But primarily the unique aspect is a tour that our students go on for two months during the summer. Based where so we’re based in something california headquarters in the city of diamond bar. But we have kids from one hundred cities across the state, and we actually have some kids from other countries as well. My, my father was a percussion major, taut drum while taught elementary school music. But his major was percussion. And i, his son, was a failure of the drum. And then i must a clarinet. I tried violin. I practice. So you went from the easiest instrument to the most difficult. I yes. Yeah. My progress showed it. And i was just i was a bad student. I didn’t practice. If you only go to lesson once a week, you’re not gonna learn. I have to practice it’s. Very true. What is your background in? Music. So i was a musician growing up. I didn’t major in music in college, but one of the founders of pacific crest on when i first started, i was percussion instructor. But the group is made up of brass, percussion and dancers, and then a show is created very intricate blend of music and movement. And then we take that show on the road, as i said earlier. Oh, and the unique aspect of it is a two month tour where the kids leave the comfort of their homes and we travel by bus and stay at schools and performed four, five times a week. And just how old are the kids? Sixteen to twenty one. Okay, all right, julia let’s give you a shout. What is? Tell us about stone super creative. Well, i’m a branding consultant and i work mostly with non-profits and hyre ed and i help them to find and communicate their authentic brands to help them maximize mission impact. Okay, very concerned. We need to be multi-channel right? Because our constituents are in all different channels. And of course, we want to meet our constituents where they are, so we need to emphasized multi-channel. Ism is that true? Multi-channel is, um, yes, okay, it’s, like not discrimination, not, we’re not discriminating cross channels. How do we know where which channels we should be focused on? Because there are so many, how do we know where to be and where to place emphasis? Wow, it really depends on the organization. It depends on the organization’s audiences. I’m sorry, we’ll dazzle too broad. How do we know where our organization’s, how do we assess where our organization ought to be? I think that’s a better question for stewart to ask t answer in terms of his organization. Okay, all right, well, all right, where is where is? Where is pacific crest? So way have we have a number of channels, but the website obviously is the first communication place, but on social media, we’re where we limit ourselves to instagram, facebook and twitter and youtube as well we’ve not moved to any others and there’s some philosophical reasons, for example, snapchat is not one that we’re going to move towards of, but we know that the demographics of our organization are trending, you know, in terms of people who are fans and kids who are interested in being a part it’s going to be in that younger age group, and so we know that twitter is becoming more popular with that age group, and so we’re going to do a little bit more there to attract that age group. We also know that facebook is trending mohr a little bit older now, and so there are certain things that we do on facebook that we’re not going to do on twitter. Sorry or vice versa. That’s okay, wait, we have a small set here squeezed into ten by ten so don’t worry if you knock the night a night, not mike’s, okay? And so that’s, how we make some of our decisions, you know, we start with what’s out there a lot of times the kids bring it to us, we should have a snapchat, you know? Or we should have a facebook page, or we should have a facebook page for the trumpet section and a facebook page for them, you know? And so we have to, you know, we had to be mindful of which ones of the official ones which ones of the unofficial ones and how are we using social media to communicate? We may be using the facebook page to communicate to the outside world, but we also use social media to communicate within the organization because students, by and large, do not read email that’s for old people. I’ve been hearing that. Yeah, okay, okay. And so so were communicating to our members. Of course i’m going to send email to them in their parents, but we’re also going to follow-up with did you check your email on facebook? Okay, uh, now, i think it’s important people know that you do not have any full time employees. We do not pay anybody full time, so we have people who work. Ah, lot of ours. Yeah. Say that jokingly, but no, we do not have full time employees. Most of the money goes right back into the program. Okay, back-up what’s the philosophical objection, teo snapchat i think for us, the fact that a picture could be taken and or a comment could be made and then it khun disappear and the fact that it doesn’t necessarily disappear because it can be forwarded on, we lose control over it. And so for us, it’s, not something that we’re comfortable with right now. Snapchat is not a bad thing in and of itself, but when it comes to having kids in the group in the organization, we just felt that we’re not ready to do that at this point. Okay, it’s, time for a break, pursuing they’ll help you bring new donors to your work. They’ve got a new content paper on donor acquisition it’s the art and science of acquisition paper covers strategies that work from successful acquisition campaigns, and this is a campaign plus it’s got the numbers side pursuing you know them data driven as well as technology enabled, so data rise. What metrics should you be paying attention to? How do you know whether your campaign is succeeding? If you’re not looking at the right metrics, you’re not going to know and if you’re not succeeding, you need to pivot all the data that you need to be looking at. They’re going to cover that too. Um, it’s on the exclusive non-profit radio listener landing page that’s where you’ll find this content paper, it is the art and science of acquisition you’ll find it all at tony dahna slash pursuant and i am very grateful to them for their sponsorship. This show was back in june twenty sixteen when it first aired and pursue it was our sole sponsor. They’ve been with us that long. Check them out. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p now back to your little brand that can julia anything you want to add? Teo building a a fiercely loyal group of supporters. Well, i would just add to what stuart was saying in terms of controlling the brand, you know, that’s something that’s important to consider and something we talked about in our session as one of the differences between the for-profit sector and the nonprofit sector is that we want to take control of our brands so that, you know, we’re in control and people aren’t just making up our brand for us, but at the same time, you know, i think traditionally for-profit sorr yeah, the for-profit sector and, you know, they kind of tightly policed their brands or at least they have, i think that’s changing, but i think with non-profits it’s more there’s, more flexibility built into the brand. So, you know, snapchat i can understand, you know, that’s not gonna work, but it’s not it’s more about, like, guiding your brand across the channels and, you know, there’s more of ah, sense of collaboration, i think inflexibility with with guiding your brand across the channels, there’s more of an interaction with your audience rather than tightly policing it. Okay, yeah, on stuart, especially the age group that you’re dealing with, there has to be a degree of flexibility absolutely right. That’s why? When the kid comes to me with an idea than you know, that’s, we listen to those ideas because especially now they know how they want to communicate, and sometimes where we come in from the management side is that’s great information. Thank you so much, but you need to understand that there’s a larger picture here. So when a kid comes to me and says, i think we should have different facebook pages for different sections, you know, and we should have a brass facebook page and we should have ah, regular facebook page and a percussion facebook page. My question back to that student in this case, a nineteen year old kid just asked me that in who’s, a member of the corps for three years, i said, can you please explain to me in your mind what’s the marketing reason for that? What is the marketing benefit of having so many different channels that essentially say the same? And so then we get a conversation going to help the students understand that while he may be seeing a small piece of this there’s a larger piece to consider who becomes a teachable moment in that way, but it also then opens up the question of well, if you want to communicate that way within sections that’s a great idea, let’s. Go ahead and make those pages. Make sure that i’m an administrator on them so i can see what’s going on. And then that’s and that’s how we kind of grew the internal facebook and the i think it’s the official facebook okay, you knocking mike twice now? That’s enough! I’m going to stop using my there’s just we’re so excited. We’re just just stick yah late ing wildly teo convey their passionate we are. Thank you so much, stuart. Thanks. You also let’s say, julia that’s every file of something something stuart said, not little listening, listening he’s listening to the nineteen year old who want to do something that probably isn’t isn’t in the best interest of organisation, but there’s still a conversation about it listening and all your channels way amplify how that gets done effectively and really, you know, really? Exgagement well, i think it’s about knowing who your audience is, um, you know, you don’t want to just put your brand out tio every single channel in the hopes that it sticks somewhere. You know, i think, it’s what stewart saying is really important he’s listening to his audience, he knows exactly. Who is audience is on and he, you know, he’s he’s lucky in that sense, because it’s kind of a built in audience and he’s able to listen to them closely and know, you know, where they want to learn their information, where they want to get engaged, and i think, you know, ultimately all of this leads to trust and trust in the brand, you know, if they feel like they’re being listened to, they’re going to trust the brand, and once they trust the brand, they’re going to support the brand, become advocates, let’s spend a minute defining the brand way you mentioned a few times. I want people to recognize that it’s more than just logo and mission statement amplify that would you for us that the brand? Sure, well, you know, i present the definition of brandon my session, and it was, you know, generally accepted for for-profit sector definition, which is that it’s your reputation and you know it is your reputation, i agree with that, but it’s your reputation in order to gain a competitive advantage, so that doesn’t really work with non-profits it is about your reputation, it is about your sense of identity. But you’re not really looking for a competitive advantage, per se. I think what you’re trying to do is clarify what your values are, what your mission is in order you fit in the community, right? And then ultimately, i think, it’s about collaboration, you know, that’s where non-profits do the best work and make the most of their impact. Their mission impact is by collaborating, okay. How do you think about you’re the brand? Stuart, a cz you’re dealing with, a lot of young people are exclusively young people well know their parents also how do you how do you think through this that’s? A good question, because we’ve we’ve had to come to terms with that a number of times because especially with the youth group, the thing that you’re doing is not necessarily what you’re doing, okay? So this producing a show and going on the road and performing that is what we’re doing in terms of the actual product. I guess you could say that we’re creating the program we’re putting together for the kids, but when you’re dealing with students or young people in general, you have to go beyond that. You have to go beyond the we say, you got to go beyond the music, you’ve got to go beyond the choreography and the competition. There’s gotta be a larger reason there’s got to be a so what? To this whole thing and for us, it’s the unique aspect of leaving on tour for two months and something really transformative happens to a kid when he is forced to take responsibility. For himself or herself for sixty days of lock down? Yeah, and for us, it’s maturation, maturation requires coping skills, and as adults, we cope with challenges throughout the day wouldn’t even realize it anymore, but there is an issue in this country, and the issue is that students don’t have the coping skills that are past generation tad there’s a variety of reasons for that that i don’t want to get into, but we create that a pacific crest when you go on tour and you’re living on a bus and you’re driving through the night and not getting as much sleep is, maybe you want to and it’s still hot, but you still have to rehearse and we have a show tonight and people are depending on you. The coping skills get developed quite quickly and learning how to cope and learning how to deal with those challenges leads to maturity. Maturation is a forced condition isn’t come from an easy life, and how does your use of multi-channel strategies online contribute to this maturation process? Right? So they don’t necessarily contribute to the maturation process, but when we communicate what we do, it’s always about the life. Changing experience, even we’re recruiting. We’re recruiting kids and we’re saying we want you to do pacific crest or come check us out because this is going to change your life. It’s not about performing in front of the audience is they already know that’s what they do, they already know they’re going to get into that we want to explain to them and their parents. This is why you’re doing this. You could be in the claremont, you symphony you, khun b in your local high school marching band, you can play little league, you go to the beach, you can do any of these things. But if you want an experience where people are going to applaud for you and it’s going to change your life were the place to go. Julia, how do you translate what stuart is saying, too? Latto cem cem strategies for actually achieving this online in the in the network’s. Uh, well, you know, stuart and i met because we were working together. I was helping him with his rebranding a few years ago on dh as part of the process of re branding. You know, there were several questions that i posed. To him, gee, i don’t have those questions in front of me right now, but, you know, it was it was pretty much about, like, you know, who are you? What do you dio and most importantly, why do you do it on also, you know, what is it about what you’re doing is different than what other organizations are doing? What makes you unique, you know, and then ultimately that lead tio three different what i would call brand messages that pacific cross has been able to use in one form or another, you know, across their channels in their promotion of their brand, i don’t know, stuart, do you know the brand messages off the top of your head? And we could maybe give an example of how those have been used, okay, what are they? So the first one and these air paraphrased is to bring together a group of kids who are like minded and and want to be in a very high quality, superior quality performance group that pushes them right, okay, the second brand messages that were here to develop your performance skills, okay, which is an obvious one, but needs to be stated. And the third one is the life skills that i mentioned earlier, where we’re going to create an experience that changes your life because of the unique aspect of the tour. And so we hit those super hard in all the channels and all of our communications. So when you mentioned, how else does this manifest itself in communication, when we’re talking to people about donating to pacific crest? We’re not talking about donating so we could make beautiful music. We’re talking about donating so that they can change a kid’s life through music so that the drum corps becomes the way we change lives, not the thing we do in another cell vehicle, right method rights and it’s about consistency in promoting those brand messages in some form or another, you know, distilled down to their essence. And i think that that is really important when you’re talking about brands. But how do you achieve this? But this consistency multi-channel some channels, very brief messages. How do you how do you do this, julia? Well, we gave several examples of what you have to think about. Like you know what should be in your mind? Well, i think with every type of marketing communications thatyou dio you want to think back to what the brand represents, you know? So, you know, let’s say your values are, you know, integrity and education, you know, when your personality is fun, you know you can think about while is every message that i’m putting out there. Is it fun? Is it promoting this idea of integrity, of educating the child? You know, that’s, those are just examples, but i mean, you can kind of use those as benchmarks, it’s, almost like the brand is your like, your north star pointing the way i’m actually not very good that’s. Excellent metaphor, maybe seen analogy? No, i think. Okay, stuart, who at pacific crest is is producing our managing the channels? Is that all you? No, we have a social media manager. Okay? And what he does is he uses a nap location called duitz sweet to queue up her posts, but he’s also, we also use him as an internal manager. Two that doesn’t make sense. We use them to monitor what the students facebook pages because students might say all kinds of things about the organization and once in a while there might be something that gets said or posted that is not reflective of what we are, who we are, and then i can always count on brandon to send me an email saying, i saw this on the kids site and i’ll i’ll contact the kid and say, we need to have a conversation about this post and that’s, so so we kind of do it both ways. We manage it internally a cz well, as externally, i don’t know if that answers your question completely, but i’m i’m not in every box of the orc char, but when it comes to communication, i’ve got my finger on that pretty, pretty tightly. Julia dahna maybe how can i be a larger organization but not huge? But, you know, just a five person organization and how can they shouldn’t manage this the same way stewart is trying way stewart is doing, but on a you know, smaller scale organisation, how do you sort of manage the integrity and without it being controlling right? That’s a great question eso when i work with clients, i make sure that if we’re going to go into a branding process that there’s a branding team that really represents all levels of the organization and its not just the marketing people or it’s, not just the executive director. I think it needs to be the executive management team, but i also think it needs to be, you know, everybody, not every staff person, but just every level represented, you know, at the organization, you know, the admin person, maybe it’s a programme, people, i think it could even be bored members, beneficiaries of your services, you know, on some level, i think that they need to be involved in that branding process, and then what happens is that the end? You know, everybody has kind of bought into this idea they’ve contributed, they’ve been heard and they become your brand ambassadors. So you’ve got internally, you’ve got people who are being consistent and gauging in conversation in the same way externally, you know, it’s it’s kind of this marriage of internally, the brand identity is matching with the brand image externally, so it’s, you know, it’s, you are who you say you are, you’re walking the walk and people people get that yeah, i’d like to add to that because julia said something that i hadn’t really considered we were even talking in our session today. We have a very dis aggregate. I love that we have a recession idea for a new session. So we have ah, what i call a disaggregated staff of people. So, you know, we have a few full time or sorry for full time focused on admin like myself in our operations person and finance person book keeper, right? But we also have all the people who teach the kids and these folks have to be ambassadors for the brand as well. So when our program director hires a new person to be in charge of all the brass instructors are all the percussion instructors. And we have a team of forty people who work with these kids. So the person in charge of the brass section we call the caption head he and i are gonna have a conversation and we’re going to talk about what the goals are. Pacific crest. And the first thing that he’s going to realize is competition is not part of the goals because it’s not part of the brand. Okay, it’s, it’s. Definitely something we do. But when i talked to him or or her, anybody who’s going to be in charge of the staff? They need to understand what pacific crest is all about, what we’re trying to do and that, yes, i expect you to make helped develop the best brass program that we can have so that the kids have an amazing experience and we can represent ourselves, but there’s a larger reason for that cause i want these kids to learn howto work hard, i want them to learn the coping skills, to mature, to feel responsible for themselves and to each other, those air, the outcomes, you’re exactly not not a prize at the company, right? And then and and i and i have jokingly say that every single person on the staff is part of our retention team, you know, and part of our fund-raising team like as good a job as they do of instilling that brand all the way through the organization through the death of the organization is what helps tell her tell her story. More importantly, if i’m in charge of the brass program and now i’ve been told by the director that this is what we’re looking for now when i go find my trumpet instructor and my french horn instructor and my tuba instructor, i have to make sure that they also believe in that same philosophy. And so the nice part for me is once the caption had buy into it, then i’m pretty confident that the people they hyre are also going to buy into that, and so it flows all the way through the organization. Okay? Yeah, essentially grand ambassadors, yes. Julia and ambassadors, he’s recruiting brand ambassador, random brassieres duitz a new head of of the percussion section or the right. Yeah, because i mean, the way i used to do it is i would go and i would meet with, you know, the executive director or the marketing director or whatever your dork, right? Right? Right. And, you know, and then we would talk and, you know, then i would, you know, go back to my studio and, you know, work my magic behind the curtain and come back and present them with their brand. And guess what? That doesn’t work at all. No, you know, because that it’s you know, either like it or you don’t like it collaborative, right? You haven’t been part of the process. Right. So it’s, harder for you to become an ambassador for it to buy, to get that buy-in right, right? I mean, have the body. Yeah. Now, it’s just really about facilitation, making sure that everybody’s heard and, you know, getting everyone on board so that they can own the brand. When it’s, when we’ve come to the end of the process, okay, that seems like a cool place to wrap it up. Okay? I like the idea of the brand ambassadors. Thank you very much. All right. Julia. Right. Branding consultant with stone soup. Creative on stuart pompel executive director, pacific crest lugthart organization. Julian stuart. Thank you so much for sharing. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen non-profit technology conference? San jose, california. Thanks so much for being with us. The future of email coming up first. Wagner, cpas. They really do go way beyond the numbers for you. Way beyond being cpas. The guides, all these guides that they have there’s a couple of dozen of them on their resource page, each one specifically for non-profits ordered committee versus finance committee. Independent contractor. Versus employee checklist ali versus frazier disaster arika even find ali versus frazier disaster recovery plan church internal audit plan floor plan there’s no floor plan. All right, there’s, no floor plain, but there is a koa cost allocation plan. I’m not even sure what that one is. I went through it, but if you’re allocating costs, then it’ll make sense to you cost allocation plan, but they’re ah, bank statement, bank statement review form your viewing your bank statements all the time. Are you checking for the right things? Ah, wireless device policy. So they’re going way beyond the numbers. Very generous with all these free resource is just browse the list for god’s sake. It takes you a minute toe, look through and see what applies for you. Take a look at everything they have wagner cps dot com click resource is then guides at blow software i think you’ve heard me say this you’re non-profit but you’re using accounting software made for a business. I never thought of this. It was completely outside my ken then apples came along, wandered over, walked through the sponsorship door and i found enlightenment non-profits need accounting software that’s made for non-profits not quick books or terrible cash or microsoft or escape, those are built for corporations for businesses. Appaloosa counting is designed for non-profits built from the ground up for you, for non-profits to make your non-profit accounting easy and affordable. Non-profit wizard dot com now for tony steak too. My latest video it’s still out there, promote the ira rollover this’s a fantabulous gift for you for end of year only applies for those who are seven and a half and over. I explained that you know the details of the advantages last week for donors and for you just amplifying the benefit for you is this is a gift for you now today. So i considered a planned gift because it comes from someone’s ira, their retirement assets. But the cash comes to you today, not at the donor’s death, so that distinguishes it from most planned gift. Very easy to market. You could put a buckslip in the mailings you’re already doing, do a sidebar in an email blast. Maybe the email blast pertains. Teo your annual fund on dh yeah, your annual fund for the end of year appeal put a sidebar in promoting the ira. Charitable roll over, it’s. Really simple. The donors just go to their hyre a custodian and get a very simple form which is usually on the custodians website. They fill in your name, your legal, your legal man, your tax idea, your address boom and it’s yours. So, um, prote the ira roll over my video. Is that tony martignetti dot com? And that is tony. Take two. And here is sara driscoll with the future of email. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference. This is also part of ntc conversations. We’re in san jose at the convention center. My guest now is sara driscoll. Sarah is the email director and vice president at two. Seventy strategies. We’re gonna get to sarah in a moment talking about the future of email for the next ten years. First, i have to do our swag item for this interview. And it is some locally sourced cooking. Nothin crackers from crowdster crowdster non-profit radio sponsor. Actually. So crowdster and local crackers. The crowdster cracker. Thank you very much. Crowdster way had these two the swag pile four today. Okay. Sara driscoll. The future of email for the next ten years, twenty sixteen to twenty twenty six you’re pretty confident. You know what this is going to look like? Absolutely. Absolutely. You’re not just pretty calm. You’re absolutely confident. No qualifications. Okay, um how do we know what? Well, how do you know what’s going on what’s gonna happen in ten years? Well, i should say i don’t know exactly what’s going to happen, but what we do know is that email isn’t going anywhere. So there’s all debate right now in the tech and non-profit space about, you know, is email still a resource that my organization should be investing in, you know who even check their email anymore? No one reads them everyone’s going way too much of it all the, you know, millennials are on snapchat and twitter what’s the point of, you know, really investing my email list anymore, and the truth is, email is still stronger than ever. I actually just came from another panel where email revenue was up twenty five percent in twenty fifteen the year before, so people are still reading their e mail. They’re still donating it’s still one of the most powerful ways to reach people online. We have to get smarter and more strategic about it. Okay, now maybe there is some age variability, so if your if your constituents he happens to be exclusively sixteen to twenty five year old, maybe email is not the best channel for you. Ah mei is still maybe a channel, but maybe that’s not what your priority should be. That’s ah, great point and something that where we’re definitely looking at in terms of you know, you not only want to just you don’t want to just rely on one tool for everyone multi-channel write. The most important thing is to look at who your supporters are, what your goals are and make sure you’re meeting your people where they are, um and so that’s kind of the biggest piece that we talked about yesterday. I had folks from the sierra club and act blue join me to talk about their current email, listen, what they’re seeing and the number one theme was yes email, still alive and well, but it’s no longer king the most important thing is to make sure you’re going not just with email, but really integrating it with all of your digital tools, so making sure supporters are seeing you, not just on email but also on social media on dh, just using email as one of the tools in your toolbox, not the only one and consistency across these messages, right? Absolutely we actually to seventy. Our digital ads team recently has been ah, playing around with testing facebook ads that correspond with email. So is someone who reads an email, maybe clicks away from it, then goes on facebook and season ad with the same ask, are they more likely to then go back and don’t have that email on dh it’s across the board? We’re definitely seeing lift there. So with so much of all human, so many touchpoint these days and people having such for attention spans, the more you can get in front of them, the more you can get into their brain, the more likely they are to take the actions that you want them tio okay, a lot of lessons came out of the obama campaign four years ago now, so center in a presidential cycle again want to refresh our recollection about how groundbreaking a lot of their work was? Absolutely, yeah, and that’s something that you know, we are three xero everything about this now is, you know, the obama campaign was four years ago, email is absolutely huge then is it as huge now as it was back then? And the answer is yes, you’re seeing it with hillary and bernie raising tons of tons of money on line, and and it was that same back in in twenty twelve, we raised more than half a billion dollars online over email alone, and i think to really key things came away with from that campaign one was that you should not be afraid of sending maury male ah lot of people, you know, probably complain, and when i tell them today that i was on the obama joined brovey multi and they say, oh, god, they were sending you yeah, yeah, and so they say so it was you who sent me all those e mails, but we tested it thoroughly and we saw no, really no effective sending more email, not everyone’s going to read every single one of your e mails that people who are really, really, really upset about it are might unsubscribes but they’re not the people who you want. To reach anyway, they’re not going to be your your top online advocates and supporters if they’re not willing. Tto gett une male and and you didn’t see large rates of unsubscribes onda well, especially in terms of the people who we want to hit those online donors people. We had one group of people that we segmented out and sent maury mail every single day, so we sent him one or two additional messages. So we’re talking now for five, six emails a day those people actually gave more than the other group because again, it’s about, you know, people have so much email in their in box that you want to just make sure you’re getting in front of them. A lot of people won’t even notice how maney you send, and you want to make sure that you’re hitting them with the message is that they’re going to respond, teo but i think more importantly, the reason why are our strategy of sending maury mail worked was because every single email felt really personal and really relevant. So, you know, all this is your other take away, yeah, yeah, yeah so we spent so much time crafting the messaging developing really, really unique center voices that the emails felt like they were coming from the president from the first lady from rufus gifford, the national finance director on dh that’s, the philosophy would take a two, seventy two is making every making email personal, so it doesn’t feel like more email or too much email if the email that you’re reading is really strategically targeted to you and feels really personal and timeline relevant what’s happening in the world, it doesn’t feel like, oh, they’re just sending me another email, it’s oh, they’re sending me an email right now because they need my help to achieve this, and if we if i don’t step up and help right now, there’s going were not i’m not gonna help solve this really urgent problem, and and one really clear indicator of that twenty twelve was when we sent the last email from the national finance director rufus gifford, and he said, you know, it was election day or the day before like, this is going to be the last time here for me on this campaign, you know, it’s been a wild ride sort of thing, twitter actually kind. Of exploded and people were legitimately sad to see rufus go there like we’re going to miss burnam is your proof is i’m gonna miss seeing you in my in box every day, and that was someone who had sent them hundreds of emails, so it just shows that if you take the time to craft really personal messaging that really treats your email subscribers as human beings, they’re most of them will respond really, positively. All right, you gotta tell me what it was like to be just part of the obama campaign and specifically in the in the email team when when you were breaking ground. Yeah, it was freaking like i’m a fourteen year old cause i’m so excited. What was that like? It was incredible is definitely one of the best experiences of my life. How do you get that job? Honestly, i i actually just a applied through ah, an online form. One of my friends sent me listserv inside the job posting was writers and editors for the obama campaign needed, and i were actually fording that to a friend and saying, holly can talk about dream job, i’ll never i’ll never get it. And i didn’t expect to hear back, but i did, and you know, the leadership there, it shows that they really were looking for people who are committed and also just great what they do. It wasn’t about who you knew. They were biggest one to find people from outside the normal realm of politics, and i was working in a really small non-profit at the time, and they saw me and they they liked my rank simple, and here i am today, that’s outstanding, so they didn’t they didn’t want that the established direct mail on email consultants for inside the beltway, they truly wanted really good writers and on dh that’s something that that i talk about all the time now my current job at two seventy, whenever i’m hiring, i always say i want great writers first, whether it’s for email, whether it’s for digital, anywhere because digital is all about storytelling and that’s how you move people to take action is by telling them a story that they were gonna feel andi want teo to respond to. And so it all comes back to the words, even in this tech age around a tech conference, but i’m still you know, the tools and tech is really important too, but it will only take you as far as the words that you write twice. Yesterday it came up in interviews that a logical appeal causes a conclusion, but an emotional appeal causes inaction on the action is volunteer. Sign forward, share give you know, whatever that is, but it’s the emotional appeal that it creates the action that we want absolutely people are goingto take the time out of their busy days. Toh ah, volunteer or, you know, give any their hard earned money unless they really feel and they really believe in it. Okay, all right. So let’s ah, all right, so let’s dive into this now a little more detail. The future um, mobile. Now we already know that email needs to be mobile response is is that i hope they’re way past that stage or people still not providing mobile response of emails right now. We actually said that on the panel yesterday when when we when i introduce the question the panel, it was, you know, whether or not my e mail needs to be mobile optimized shouldn’t be a question anymore. It’s more you know, how can i continue innovating and continue optimizing for mobile something like my julia rosen for mac blues on my panel said that somewhere around forty percent of all donations they processed this last year were from mobile, and they brought in. They just celebrated their billion dollar. So you think about, you know, how i consume email in digital content these days, it’s mostly it’s on the bus when i’m goingto work, you know, it’s when i’m on my couch, watching tv on and it’s almost exclusively on my phone. So it’s not just about making sure it looks pretty on a phone the most important piece now and where where i think especially non-profits can continue to push is making the entire user experience really optimized and really easy, so that goes to saved payment information platforms like act blue and quick donate making sure you’re capturing people’s information so they don’t have to pull out their credit card on the bus and type in their numbers if they’ve given before you should have it and they nowadays people can click, you know, with single click of the button and their donation goes through same thing with the advocacy messages and it’s things like making sure that your, you know, landing page load times are really fast on that they aren’t being slow down with too many forms or too many images. You want people able to hit your donate link on, get there immediately or whatever action you want them to take because you’re gonna lose people if they have to sit there on the, you know, again on the bus forever waiting for your page to load and it’s the more barriers that you can remove, the more likely people are going to follow through. Should we be thinking mobile first, designing the email for mobile first rather than as the as the add on? Absolutely. Jesse thomas, who is at crowd back, was also on our panel yesterday, and he said that he which i thought was brilliant, he now has his designers and developers do their previews on on a phone. So usually when you’re previewing a new website, you know it’s up on a big screen, but that no one is going to be looking at it on a big monitor. So he literally has the developers pull up a phone and say, you know, here’s where we’re at in staging so they can, you know, make edits and go from there. Okay, okay. Okay. Um, mobile acquisition. You have ideas about acquiring donors and or volunteers or whatever constituents, supporters? Absolutely eso from now until twenty twenty six? Yeah, i think it’s just going to get harder and harder. We’re noticing, you know, the quality of of names are going down more and more people want a piece of the pie and i think it’s so it shows just how strong a male is because people are still are trying to grow their less, which they should and the traditional platforms like care too and change it order still great. But again, with mohr and maura organizations rightfully looking to grow their list, we need to start figuring out how else we can get people in the door. So i don’t have the answer. I think this is one of these places that the industry really needs toe latto innovate in. I think that one area that non-profit especially can really ah, invest in maura’s peer-to-peer on dh that also there. People are constant asking me how do we get you gnome or more teens where millennials onboard and just going back to like we’re talking about the emotional appeal. People are much more likely to do something if, if asked, comes from their friend or family member esso, i think the more we can get people to reach out to their own networks and bring people onto email list into the these communities on their own, those people are going to be so much more high quality to than any donor that you, you know, that you buy or any listen let’s build that you do that way. So i’m just gonna ask, is the state of acquisitions still buying or sharing lists with maybe buying from a broker or we’re sharing? Or someone with a similarly situated organization means that still where we are? Yeah, it’s definitely still worth it to invest in list acquisition. I always say you have to spend money to make money, but it also goes backto, you know, quality over quantity. I would never recommend an organization going out just buying swaths of names just to say they have ah, big list. You only want a big leslie you can go to those people, when you need that truly yeah, yeah, i do think one area that the industry has grown a ton lately, and i just really going to continue to is in digital advertising, so in the past used to be that you would never you wouldn’t think that you could acquire donors, you know, through facebook ads or that sort of thing and that you don’t want to ask money over advertising. But in the last year, we’ve really seen that change, and people are really starting to respond more to direct ass over advertising and there’s so much more that we can do there, and in general, the non-profit industry really lags behind corporate marketers, so i think about, you know, my own online experience, and i’m constantly being followed around by that those boots that i wanted to buy, but i didn’t and things like that and the corporate spaces so good at really targeting people with exactly what they want the booty just glanced at exactly, but then they’re there and then suddenly they’re in my head and i’m like, oh, maybe i do want them, and more often than not, i buy them, which i shouldn’t but i think that’s where the organization’s really need to go is really highly targeted, highly personalised messaging that responds tio people’s previous actions are they bun hyre kayman on having been on your site for exactly, you know, the most simple exactly just let people tell you the messaging that they want to receive and the type of types of actions that they’re interested in and yes, you can, and that digital advertising is going is a huge, huge space for that. But, you know, not every non-profit has a butt huge budget, but you can still look at your own data and figure out okay, who are my people who seem to really like social actions or people who are on ly about advocacy petitions and target your messaging that way? Let your own data show you the types of emails you should be sent there. Okay, so you so you have a lot of the intelligence, you just have to mind it. Yeah, you have to know what to look for and you have to take the time which i know having worked a non-profits time is your biggest scarcity, so but it’s so worth it. Really, make sure you’re looking at your data and tailoring your messaging that way got to take a break keller’s credit card and payment processing. How about this passive residual revenue stream pays you each month? That’s what tello’s payment processing is offering when you refer businesses to them, the businesses that sign up will get discounts, and you will get fifty percent of every dollar that tell of urns from the businesses that you refer. And on top of that there’s the two hundred fifty dollars offer, which is on ly for non-profit radio listeners, you refer a business if tello’s decides that they can’t save them any money that this business has such a great credit card processing fee structure that they can’t save them any money, they will give you two hundred fifty dollars so it’s worth it for youto start making referrals to tell us and, you know, same businesses you’ve heard me mention, but i i’m going to drill this home because i need you to think about businesses that you can refer the ones owned by your board members, local merchants in your community, the maybe restaurants, car dealerships, storefronts of any type big. Small. Anybody who accepts credit card your family members do they have a business that accepts credit cards? You can save them money and you can earn half the revenue that tello’s urns from the businesses you refer that sign up with. Tell us. The only place to find this offer on the two hundred fifty dollars is the landing page. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s. Let’s. Get them some referrals. Now back to sara driscoll and the future of email. You have ah, advice around. Rapid response. Yeah, i love rap response so way. Talking about after a donation or, well, after some action has been taken by that we mean no wrappers. One’s mohr is just respond to something that happened out in the world. Ok, yeah. So event that’s. Topical? Absolutely. Yes. So on. And this is a struggle that we had in twenty twelve, and i think every ah lot my clients have in that every organization has is where you spend so much time cal injuring and planning and designing these amazing campaign’s a cz you should. And then, you know, something happens. And every single time i’ll tell people you want to respond to what’s actually happening in the world doesn’t matter how how much you love the campaign you had planned for may be this day people are going to respond much more to what they’re seeing and hearing and feeling rather than what you’re, you know that if your community trying to crack for them from you, so and i think there’s ways that organizations can set themselves up for success with rapid response so first is just having a process for it. So, you know, anyone who works in email knows that you can spend a lot, you get bogged down approvals processes and getting emails actually set up and out the door, make sure you have a plan for if something happens that you need to react, tio, that you’ll be able to turn something around quickly expedited approval, absolutely put out the layers that we don’t really need you to get this out within hours. Really, we’re talking about our absolute the quicker you want to be the first person in their in box and that’s, you know and and and also you don’t wantto on lee send the one email, though, and then walk away and say, we did our apparatus rapid response? We’re done, it’s, a big enough moment. Keep it going. You should, you know, make sure you’re following up with people who took the action with different actions to take and just keep the keep the drum beat up for as long as its people are paying attention to it. Okay, okay. Let’s see are their automated tools that we can weaken you can recommend around rapid response that that that help i would say automation is actually the is is great and i think is a huge space that non-profits and grown as well. So again, corporate marketing so much of what you see, those drip campaigns, the re targeting you get is automated esso they have a lot more time tio, you know, think of the next creative thing to dio rather than just manually setting up the next email to send you know, an hour after someone visit their website, but it’s, when you’re playing with automation, it’s really important to not just set it and forget it because of moments like rapper response. So if you have ah triggered welcome siri’s set out for new people who join your list, don’t just let it go for a year and not updated with what’s actually current and relevant, same thing if you if you know that you’re going to be having automated message and going out and then something happens, you want to make sure that you’re going back in and either revising or pausing it, especially if it’s unfortunately, we never want this, but if it’s a tragedy or something out in the world, you also really don’t want to seem tone deaf, so automation is great, but and we actually talked yesterday about, you know, if we’re all going to be replaced by robots, one day robots can do all of the automation take a lot of the work off your hands, but they don’t have the brains and the heart to think about. Okay, wait, what? What does a user really want to be hearing right now? Be sensitive, exactly sensitive to what people are feeling? Yep, reading okay, okay, fund-raising you have ideas around fund-raising lots of ideas about fund-raising i think about it way too much, i mean, this could bea, you know, you talk about fund-raising for hours, i think the interesting thing right now that people are seeing is we saw we saw this huge boost in email on online fund-raising, you know, around twenty twelve and with all of the ground that we broke their and things like quick donate all these new technologies appearing, making it easier for people to give online, so we saw a huge boost around then. And now i know so my clients and organizations i’ve been hearing around here are kind of seeing a plateau effect, so let’s say, you’ve done all the optimization sze yu have the tools, but and so you probably saw some huge a huge boost in your numbers, but now you know, what do you d’oh and so and with and it’s also like the cat’s out of the bag with the male fund-raising right, like people know that it works so now everyone’s doing it, and that gets back to the volume issue where how do you break through the noise? That’s? Why, i think it’s super important toe really? Look at first, we’ll continue toe investing your list, get those new people on board, but also look at the people that you currently have and make sure that you’re you’re targeting them effectively, so things like making sure that you’re sending the right ass amounts for people segmenting by previous action taker. So if someone’s dahna someone who is an offline volunteer could probably be a wonderful online fundraiser for you two and too often, organizations treat their people in silo, so they’re volunteers are out in one. Area and digital isn’t really touched them their direct mail people are in a whole other area than their online givers are also treated differently and it’s so important to look at each user individually as a whole person and making sure that you’re there recognizes that there recognized for their relationship with the organization surveys could help. Here is really simple where we had someone on the show yesterday talking about just like five or six questions surveys? How many times do you want me to do? Do you want to hear from us? What channel do you want to hear? When should we ask you for for your your gift? If they’re assuming they’re in annual about a sustainers but, you know, so simple, like survey and listen yep, yeah, and then adhere to what they ask absolutely so again because there’s so much volume the more personally khun make your messaging, the more like the people are to respond. Another thing i’d say is there’s also, people often ask what the magic number of fund-raising emails is a year, but i think it’s so much more important toe to make sure that you’re developing really creative and interesting and timely campaigns. So look at your entire year and you really do have to start a year back and figure out what’s, you know, if they’re big moments that you know of that you can create fund-raising campaigns around. So, you know, giving tuesday is a great example of it that’s when it’s really blown up in recent years because it’s such an organic fund-raising opportunity that people are listening to in paying attention and they want to be a part of, and now the challenge is figure out how to create those moments your own moments, right? Because so many people are now involved in giving tuesday it’s hard tto tto break through the noise. So look at your calendar. Figure out what your giving day could be. Where can you drum up noise around your organization? And the more that you can tie it to a specific date so you can then have a deadline and a goal and ramp up your volume towards it. The more likely people are toe to pay attention. Um, you know, it’s all about crafting that urgency in a really authentic way. Okay, we’ll leave it there. Sara driscoll. Okay. Great, thanks so much. You’re loaded with information could talk about enough for our how did you get this into ninety minutes are over long. Okay? Sara driscoll she’s, the email director and vice president at two seventy strategies and this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur the non-profit technology conference. Thank you so much for being with us next week. There’s no live or podcast show happy turkey day affiliate’s you’re covered. We’re going to replay this week’s show for you. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant bye weinger cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com by apple it’s accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and by tello’s credit card and payment processors. Passive revenue streams for non-profits tony dahna may slash tony tell us ah, creative producers claire miree sam liebowitz is the line producer. The show’s social media is by susan chavez and are very cool music is by scots diner brooklyn. Thank you for that information, scotty with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and, uh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, we have a listener of the week kapin coal from the san francisco bay area she’s at non-profit chapin and she tweeted, quote, catching up on last month’s tony martignetti non-profit radio and i here at non-profit meg is listener of the week congrats girl. Well, when you shout out a listener, the weak you become one if you are the first to do it and that’s what shape? And did nobody’s ever done that before? And she used the hashtag non-profit radio, which i am always grateful for. So shape and cole, congratulations are non-profit radio listener of the week and i’m glad you’re with me. I come down with bronco candid i assists if i caught wind of the idea that you missed today’s show purpose driven branding, you need to be deliberate in the partners you select when you venture into co-branding laura ferry helps you package yourself to potential partners, find the right ones and select the relationship that makes the most sense for your objectives. Laura is the founder of goodcompany and guide star platinum even nico guide stars lead on non-profit strategy and evaluation walks you through their new platinum level and how to get there. You’re non-profit probably has a guide star profile already, and if you haven’t contributed to it, it looks bad whichever level your app even we’ll help you out on tony’s. Take two fund-raising fundamentals we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant. Dot com my pleasure to welcome laura ferry to the show. She is the founder of high low laura. Let me give you a formal introduction, please. Founder of goodcompany, a brand citizenship consultancy. She has over fifteen years of marketing strategy and alliance experience. And her clients include partnership for a healthier america, hewlett packard, pbs kids, petsmart charities and national public radio. They’re at goodcompany strategies. Dot com laura faerie. Welcome, paul. Hi. Great to be here, tony. Okay. Oh, hi. You’re ready now? Yeah. Okay. Because we’re on your on. All right. Okay. Um, let’s start at the like there’s. A basic level of you know, co-branding and strategies with partners. And what? What do you feel that non-profits are not? Getting quite right about this field, i think one of the most important things about bringing a non-profit and a corporate culture together in a partnership is to really try to understand each other’s position coming into it. I think one of the biggest challenges is really seeing that other side and trying to bring those two together and integrated effort. So one of the key things for making that happen, mr, really come to the table understanding what your organization brings to the martin our ship on how that aligns with okay, okay, and we’re going to we’re going to get to that because that isn’t you’re right, that’s a very important part. What what do you bring? What? What are the what are the, the potential partners? And most most often, i don’t know that always companies, but most often their companies. What? What are the company’s looking for? The corporate partners are you are usually looking for somebody some organization to align with that has similar values brand values, it’s the corporation has selected a cause that they want there, corporation or brand to be about that is usually the first step toward them identifying a non-profit partner, that fits their goals. Ok, okay. No, please go ahead. Continue. I was going to say, and they also are looking for non-profit partners who have that mindset of plenty together. A sortie xero relationship that benefits both parties. You mentioned, i think the phrase brand value and at the outset, i don’t wantto don’t wantto make universe cerini but we have jargon jail in-kind martin and tony martignetti non-profit radio, but we’re just getting started, so i’ll, you know ah, light sentence. But but and plus, just some of these phrases are unfamiliar to people in non-profits help us understand what brand value what does that mean or whatever? Maybe maybe through examples. What are examples or what does that mean? I think the best way to think about that is the trumpet to use the term brand citizenship and what corporations were trying to dio or how they benefit from working to do things that support social impact. And there it is. But really it’s like putting a halo on a corporate brand and giving it a social profits selves, it helps them engaged at the consumer level in a meaningful way. That address is on an empathetic way what the consumer is is concerned about in the world. So that’s, how causes come together with corporations and corporations create brands that are good citizens in the marketplace? Okay, i can’t like that that halo analogies uh, yeah, cool, alright, i mean, not that they’re not that they’re bad to start and i need a halo, but no, they’re they’re they’re not well, that’s. Why? I’m not sure that sainted i think saint, did you have a nimbus around you? But a halo for halo is for angels, right? And the nimbus is i think, for saints, so so we’re not putting, you know, to point your gear brand in the direction of of giving it a purpose to solve. The social problem is really relevant today because today’s consumer, similar ennio consumer in particular, is looking for corporations to solve business problems in a way that they no longer really necessarily have faith that the government can d’oh that’s where all of this conversation around france being good citizens has emerged hard to imagine a loss of faith in government. Yeah, just can’t conceive of that. All right? How about some examples whether they’re big famous? Ones or or smaller ones, you know, i mean, because our audience is small and midsize non-profit so it doesn’t have to be a, you know, big famous one, but sametz samples before we take our first break in a couple minutes. Yeah, i think what your switch you’re seeing out there is brand associating themselves with causes like, uh, that that emerged from, like starbucks is a great example starbucks has hyre a lot of initiatives that our focus on solving social problems, everything from making sure their employees have college degrees, too. I’m starting a dialogue at the register on talking about it’s, just like race, which howard schultz, john give it, give it, give a try and actually got a lot of flack for it, but he did try to start a conversation around a really relevant special topic on dh now starbucks is also taking its surplus of food supply and donating it at the end of every day. All of those acts are all of those programs that they’ve developed help them put that halo on their bread and have and create that brand feeling about starbucks that day that they care about what the rest of us care about howard schultz is ceo of starbucks. Yes, okay, okay, that’s, a that’s, a good example to go out on, we’re going to take our break, and when we come back you and i’ll keep talking about purpose driven branding, stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I feel like doing live listener love right now we got it, we got to send the live love to everyone who is throughout the country throughout the world. We know we get listeners from routinely from asia on dh germany, ups and mexico very often. So live listener love, of course, to was in the u s listening friday one p m eastern, but sending that live listener love international as well. You know who you are live listeners podcast pleasantries, that’s where the over ten thousand are listening in the time shift whatever device in time and activity you’re in the midst of while you’re listening i’m glad you’re with us pleasantries to the podcast listeners and the affiliate affections cannot continue without sending the affections to our am and fm listeners throughout the country. Whatever day of the week. Whatever time your station has scheduled us, i am glad you’re with us. I know somewhere, even on weekends, affections to our many am and fm affiliate listeners throughout the country. Okay, laura ferry, thank you for indulging me while i, uh, send live. Listen, love. Podcast pleasantries and affiliate affection is very important to do. Um, okay, well, reassure me, please, and us that this is not on ly for big organizations and international corporations to come together, but we could do this on a small level local level as well, right? Yes, of course she could. And one of them is the most amazing thing is a small business is known for it philantech please. So there you could really approach these partnerships at a local level. They’re small non-profit using the same steps toward really, you know, developing an effective partnership that really helps promote your mission and engage people in that cause while at the same time helping that local business got from those ability for being a good community, citizens and, of course, on the local level, smaller organizations have that advantage. You know, you may be seeing potential partners at events in your community chamber of commerce, which a lot of non-profits belong to, you know, you’re you’re meeting potential partners probably a lot more often than than big scale non-profits like you’re rubbing shoulders with them, you know, often routinely. Okay, so let’s go where you wanted to go. Because this is important. On what? Identifying what it is you bring to the table to help your potential corporate partner maximize that brand value. Look at me being old jargon e l love this it’s great it’s. Great. So i think i like just throw some questions out for your audience to think about that. You know how before you approach a partner, these air the casings to think about how can your non-profit help foster that brand citizenship or bring that brand halo to that corporate partner and fearsome test? Look for ways that that your mission aligns with the cause that that corporation cares about even goes far is being doing a research ahead of time, looking at their corporate website, trying to understand what they may already be doing in the corporate social responsibility area and seeing if you’re a good fit. Okay, now and in terms of that, laura, could we look to see who they may have partnered with in the past? That may be a related mission. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. I don’t want you to go through the list too fast because i may have some questions for you. Okay. Okay. So, uh another really key factor, and developing any partnership is to make sure that you have support across the organization. So once you found and identified that partner, make sure that that they’re all of their resources are also bringing, uh, their resources to the table. So you really want to put in all hands on deck partnership and know that you have, you know, a little support on both sides of the partnership to really have the most effective intact together. Yeah, so is this something that on the non-profit side, the board should be apprised of right? And maybe, i don’t know, maybe even approve. Absolutely. I don’t really know any non-profits who wouldn’t take a big strategic partnership and have the board weigh in on it. So absolutely. Do you want to see these? Once we’ve identified our partner, is there a written agreement between the parties? Yes, there usually is. And and that could be a non disclosure. That could be a contract between the two organizations. But you’re usually sharing brands which are assets that you have to protect legally at those people, uh, are aware of that. So you want to be sure you have an agreement in place that, uh, that legal allows you to share brands and also gives you the option of reviewing and approving how your brand is being used on the other side of the partners? Yes, yes. Excellent. Good. Brand management is really important. Okay. Okay. Uh, all right. Go ahead. What else? Ah, in terms of the value we bring to the corporate partner hey, there’s, this isn’t always the case with all partnerships. That kind of depends on what kind of relationship we’re trying to build. But if you could engage that corporations, employees in your efforts to support whatever the campaign, you’re putting together with corporations or any kind of the program that just lends itself to engaging employees that’s a really great asset to your charity, because that could be, you know, for a small company, hundreds of new brand advocates for you as a non-profit and it can also lead to along a longer term relationship with that corporation because those folks actually become your supporters is part of your campaign. I’m thinking, like, top my heads, our mentor possibilities, but it really could be any could be any volunteer activity, right? That sure. Okay, you have any examining going on? Yes, i do. And one of the really wonderful non-profits i work with this kaboom, which is an organization that builds playgrounds across the country they built over sixteen thousand. So far on that is, uh, a, uh non-profit that typically it’s not there. Only it’s like the only vision for the cause of play, but they typically bring in corporate employees to come actually do those playground, though. So if god carmax, for example, is one of their big sponsors. So if there’s a local playground build near carmax locations, carmax employees actually go out to that site. And participate in the playground built. So it brings a lot of team building. Is it feeling good about the company? He worked for? It’s really? On exciting and meaningful, an authentic way to engage your employees and volunteering and coming together at a company. Excellent. Now this would have would feed what you said earlier about millennials. And if it’s a it’s, a company that has a lot of young employees, they’re they’re looking to blend their their professional life with social change work, right? Yes, absolutely they’re also looking for opportunities to connect socially, so by bringing them together are providing them with access to volunteer opportunities. They have a chance to meet new people and share in an active there that they can feel really good about doing together. So we do the playground build all day, and then we meet for beers after that’s ideal, right? Exactly. Ok, yeah, exactly, ok s o that’s called the the employee engagement so that’s i’m just i’m just i’m just amplifying. It was reiterating what you said but valuable to think through how employees could help your cause and the value that that brings to the to the company. In terms of engagement and company spirit, maybe i mean some company he comes. Some companies even have a requirement right for so many service hours, i guess per year or something like that? Yes. That’s their true. Okay. Excellent. All right. The employee engagement. All right, what else? What else you got? I think one of the things that you need to remember to is that alright, relationships require work. So the best ones really flourished when both parties begin with shared common interest singles and really bring that value together to the table and get really creative about what it is you want to do together. We mentioned a playground, bill that’s. One option. But could you also tie that teo retail promotion? Where, you know, at the register, you ask customers to donate a percentage of their transaction? Tio just to the kaboom cause todo playground and in our local communities, those are great ways not only to engage on the employee’s side, but also at the consumer level. You’re connecting there as well. Okay, you got any other? I love stories. And i some of the feedback i get from listeners to is that they love. Stories to any other, any others examples doesn’t have to be of the volunteer. I think a lot of really interesting things happening with designers who are developing, uh, fashion lines and products to support causes that they care deeply about you may recently have seen tommy hilfiger launched a line with a non-profit called runway of dreams to design an apparel line for learning disabled kids, so they he’s actually created a very stylish line. That’s easy, tio, pick off and get on so that’s one example, lady gaga and elton john just launched a product ah called love bravery at macy’s that is really interesting and showing some real promise for supporting both of their independent foundations. Um, there’s also social enterprises emerging everywhere, which typically a lost non-profit partnership uh, brands like tom’s where buy one give one are now partnering with coffee companies and a whole range of ah causes that are out there in the field helping in developing countries. Ah, gymboree and kapin kaboom is another example of a baboon partnership that i’m really excited about is cook doing parted with gymboree than on and gymboree launched a line of play where it last year called hop and roll and a percentage of of all of the apparel line that was sold to supporting kaboom cause, uh, employees and all the stores competed on the one who the store who raised the most funding for, um for by selling product to consumers actually won a local playground bills. So it was really well integrated program that involved engaging both employees and consumers, and we’ll do good campaign. Excellent. So so what? The higher level, this this clearly even product development is possible. You you’ve given a couple examples of where special products were developed. Okay now, again, small and midsize non-profits out. They may not get that far, but there still is. They’re still great potential for doing this on on a smaller scale. Sure. And, you know, there are local non-profits that further causes that are being supported by local business all the time. Alex’s lemonade stands are happening everywhere. So there are local restaurant night where percentage of that night sales that stone into a local cause. Uh, so those airways to engage through retail, whether they be restaurants or, you know, apparel stores, local grocery to support the cause is that that local communities? Yes. Excellent car washers. I mean, we know whatever whatever is in your community on dh. Yeah, i think you’ve just touched on the point that if there’s already some relationship between you, you know, maybe they’re just giving twenty five hundred dollars to your and you will run, walk or something like that or, you know, they’re sponsoring you in some other way. Maybe, you know, leveraging that existing relationship and approaching the company about going deeper. Yes. That’s that’s a great way to think about it. In fact, i’ll go out on a limb here and say, i think there have been in charity work happening at the local level, two small non-profits and local businesses for a really long time and corporate brands that are now just catching on to engaging at the local level through store retail stores in campaign. So i do. I do agree with you. I think a lot of really exciting things can happen at the local level. And you can actually work that backwards. Now. Goto the corporate side too. Support your non-profit on a national basis. Yeah. Cool. Now, if laura, if we want to get this started? I mean, isat do we need to go in with fancy, you know, a fancy presentation the first time? Or is it really just a conversation the first time to sort of explore? I think it’s important to go in there, having done your research and really understanding who that company is and what they care about most and what they’re trying to achieve by participating in a collaboration with a non-profit on dh and if you can show that where you’ve connected the dots before you go in there and tell that story in that meeting, how you deliver it is is not as important as the story you tell. So, you know, i like to have power point that some people are better it just articulating, um, you know, the connections that they’re saying and they’re there, what they see is a value and bringing these two organizations together verbally so there’s really no magic answer. It surely just depends on what you’re comfortable with. All right? Long story. Good. All right. Um, i took a little off track and mohr mohr for ah, showing value to the potential corporate partner. What those questions to think through i think you want to, uh, talk through what kind of first take a look at your organization and what you khun gray in terms of marketing resources to support a campaign that could be anything from interesting promotions and campaigns that you go that you have going on or have plans for and how that company can integrate into that. That planning, uh, if you have basic marketing tools in place and you’ll reach a lot of people, tell that corporation all about it because that’s that’s an audience that’s really going toe the thrill that corporation is supporting because they care about that would include your social media. Your newsletter, your website, just really what ways can you give visibility to the partnership from a marketing and communications standpoint? And one of those numbers look like they’re lower numbers and they’re not going to blow a big corporation away. That’s okay, just talk about the resources that you do have and on the investment that you’re willing to make, too, to share that corporations part of the partnership to your stakeholders in your community and, you know, are there ways to connect employees like we talked about? Really? Looking at all the way around the scope of possibility for bringing the organization’s together. And i think that’s that’s really what you want to have in your story and your pitch, too a corporate partner for a small business, you can use the same principles that yeah, absolutely you yeah, and and you want to go in confidently because you you do have the you do have assets, you know, you mentioned, like, all the social media properties and and your own brand value and your dedicated volunteers, you know, you do have networks and assets that you, khun bring to the relationship. You want to be confident about this. This is not a humble ask, right? Okay, i guess you agree. Okay, ok, cool. We have just like a minute and a half left. What? What? What have we not talked about or what do you wish? I’d asked that i haven’t. Please one of the most marks, most remarkable statistics that i’ve seen that i’m trying to build on right now. And i’m heading tto licensing expo next week in las vegas to talkto companies about working with my non-profit clients no license their brands to consumer. Product program, because i think there is an opportunity, tio cell cause branded products, uh, not all of them fit, but quite a few of them do, and and i’d like to see that development and really that’s, based on some cohen research that came out that says that eighty seven percent of consumers latto products associated with the cause over the left twelve months that’s, a khan twenty fifteen research data points that is a really strong one, so it is an opportunity, i think, to make a connection at retail. So how can you develop more product, not just promotions, but products that actually can activate? I thought about your mission in people’s homes and in their daily lives through product, we have to leave it there. Thank you very much, laura. Thank you, thank you, laura faerie, founder of goodcompany. There goodcompany strategies. Dot com. Guidestar platinum with even nico is coming up first. Pursuant velocity is one of their online tools. Why do you need it? You don’t, you could keep on managing your fund-raising the same way you do now and keep on expecting different results, and you will prove yourself insane. Or i suggest you can keep your fundraisers on target by prioritizing activities, measuring their time against goal, making smart decisions about what to do each day and each week, and following up on time with donors and potential donors, tracking milestones with potential donors. And, of course, all the tools and the dashboard that go along with that all in velocity. It was created to help pursuant fund-raising consultants manage their client campaigns, but now you get the pro tools to manage your own campaigns, and that doesn’t matter whether you have one fundraiser or you have a team or you’re an executive director doing your fund-raising you need management tools too keep you on track and all these other things. I was just talking about velocity. It helps you raise more money, you’ll find it at pursuant dot com. Now, tony’s, take two fund-raising fundamentals. Have you checked it? Out it is my alter ego. The other podcast i do. I produce it for the chronicle of philanthropy and it’s. Very different. Different format length. Um where? It’s only ten minutes. Ten to twelve minutes. And it’s once a month. Not a weekly it’s on the chronicle of philanthropy website philanthropy. Dot com it’s. Not at tony martignetti dot com. Did i mention my side is tony martignetti dot com telefund dot com and it is devoted to fund-raising that’s, that’s all we talk about now that that’s pretty wide topic, but we don’t get into the stuff that is legal. Andi even, you know, social media, you know, started tangential prospect research getting old, tangential. So it’s devoted to fund-raising. But we talked about events, grants planned e-giving major annual, um, crowd funding. Those are just some of the ones that come occur to me off the top of my head anyway. Fund-raising fundamentals quick burst. Once a month, you’ll find info at twenty martignetti dot com there is info there on dh fund-raising fundamentals is also on itunes. As is this show that’s tony’s take two. My pleasure to welcome even nico to the show as guide. Stars lead on non-profit strategy and evaluation issues. Even nico helps non-profits share their full story, using the guide star profile and to use the information to make better decisions. She has over twelve years of experience in strategic planning and evaluation in the social sector. Having worked at fsg social impact advisors and mckinsey and company, she has a phd in physics from oxford university. Dr niko, welcome to non-profit radio it’s. A pleasure to have you. I have to ask you right off with this phd in physics. Does this non-profit inertia trouble you? Well, i probably have a better understanding of non-profit inertia, maybe that anyone else having having a degree in physics and, you know, learning about inertia and all the forces that actor in the world so i often him, you know, both and used and delighted when i hear some of those words from science trickling into into the social sector as well. Well, i’m going to challenge that. You may know the most about it. I i studied up and i learned that for a mass point. The moment of inertia is just the mass times, mass times the square of the perpendicular distance to the rotation access i equals m r squared, of course, and that point mass relationship becomes the basis for all other moments of inertia. Since any object can be built up from a collection of point masses, how do you feel about that? I think that just proves that these days, if you have the google and wikipedia and access to all of the sources, then maybe you don’t. Maybe you don’t need to study quite a quite as much. How dare you? How dare you suggest that? Where do you come off? Well i just introduced you. We never even got started yet. All right. Um really? I mean, honestly, okay. Guidestar, guidestar, dot or ge? They have ah, niu platinum, the new platinum club, the platinum level tell us, just give us an overview about this before we go into detail. Yeah, now absolutely so it’s funny. So i’m you know, relatively new to guide star i’ve been with rose for about six months, but i feel like that gives me kind of a unique view on what we’re doing and some of the new things that we’re doing and what’s most exciting. And i would say one of the most exciting things that we’ve done, you know, really for a long time is to have to have released problems. So platinum is so we recognize non-profits for sharing information through guide star and it’s, not just sharing it with us, but it’s sharing it with a lot of other stakeholders, including donors thunders, you know, other non-profits and audiences, and we recognize that non-profits with what we what we call a seal of transparency so that’s, really and platinum is our highest and knew it seal of transparency and a recognition of the kind of really interesting and much more meaningful data that non-profits can share with others. All right, cool. Now, uh, let’s, let’s, give some background, tio, guidestar and and its value. What kind of stats do you have on this guidestar dot org’s thatyou khun boast about in a number of unique users each month? I mean, come on, you know, you have this, you know how many? How many people? How many people in america are you to me, but being sort of like a cross between, obviously we are non-profit ourselves a social sector organization, but also in company, because we do run guys start that or that we, you know, we do well, we deal a lot with digital data. So yes, there are a lot of numbers out there that sounds very impressive. And i would say one of the things that really drew me to guide stars is just a scale of reach that we have. So a few of those numbers of guy estrada or ge gets about seven million visitors per year. And this this is a cross section of both, you know, donors who might be coming to us advisors. Who are working with foundations and advising them on the strategies and the partners that they have, as well as non-profits who come to us directly to either, you know, look for their own information in some cases, and of course, to look at their peers. So seven million visitors, i would say that we have also, you know, one thing that we that i didn’t know about before guys start before coming here is that when you participate without your data doesn’t just stay on guidestar dot org’s, you know, as great as that is, it actually flows to a lot of other places in the sector, so we have over one hundred ninety, partner kind of websites, platforms who who used this data and they sit with their audiences who again tend to be donors or, you know, for crowd funding for point of sale giving for donor advised funds. E-giving so, you know, through that kind of network of one hundred ninety partners, we we you know, millions, not just seven, but, you know, tens to hundreds of billions but could could even be more than i equals m r squared could be could be i don’t know how that applies to anything but is completely irrelevant. But now every organization that file’s in nine ninety is already on guide star, right? Yes. Okay, i know you want to make this point even more emphatically than i did for are over ten thousand listeners throughout small and midsize non-profits you’re already there. Yeah, i think this is this can’t be over kind of emphasized, so a lot of people might think that it’s kind of like linkedin where you have to go and create a profile. The fact is, if you do file a form with the irs, but you are already on guidestar, and so really, the thing to do is to kind of google yourself, sees your guy’s profile, comes up or come to guys start at borg and sort of google yours up with us. Search for yourself and see what’s there because i’m finding that a lot of non-profits especially your, you know, fantastic audience, maybe a sort of smaller to ms sidle midsize organizations doesn’t know that they’re already on their and maybe their profile is looking a little sad. Yeah, what would they have if they’ve contributed nothing? Well, they might. Have their basic nine, ninety form as a button, and otherwise, you know not much off perhaps a few of the fields from the nine, ninety that’s named their ceo, but not much else. Okay, now, tio, you said to move up to the platinum or two moved a level you recognize non-profits for their contributions, and you have different levels. Bronze, silver, gold and platinum. And now, okay, why don’t we? Well, what comes before bronze, like, if you’ve contributed nothing, is that the aluminum foil it’s, like a sheet of paper? No. Well, try to stick. I mean, okay, your degrees, physical physics, not chemistry, but try to stick with the pattern. It’s all there, all medals. Let go that’s! Better than aluminum foil. Yes, lead, pb. Okay, so i know all about science and chemistry. Pb lead. Yes, lead that’s a better one than aluminum foil even. Okay, so if we have nothing, my organization has not contributed anything to the guidestar dot or ge. How do i get to the bronze? No, no. That’s a great question. So, i mean, the first thing to do is to actually claim your profile. I love that works claim, you know, it’s sort of obviously connotation, some level of ownership, but we have got to start obviously can’t just let anyone modify any organizations profilers needs to someone who represents that organization needs to, you know, come to us and say, hey, i’d like to you know, i’d like to be in charge of the content on my profile, and so all you have to do is come to you guys, start that orc and there’s a nice button up, you know, a field up top that says update your profile that takes you through some of the instructions. But the first step is going to be to, you know, tell us that you want to claim your profile. By coming to our website, then we will do a little bit of due diligence to make sure that we verify that you can, in fact, modify the organization. You want to represent your weinger bonem fundez just that your bona fide? Yeah. Okay. And then after that, your kind ofyou have access two as a set of tools that let you contribute the information. All right, all right. So that’s bronze and and how do we move up? Yeah, so broad. I mean, one thing i’ll say about bronze bronze are is kind of the basics, right? Unless you climb the podium. You know, the olympics coming up later this summer, it gets you on the podium, right? It sort of means that you you could be found as an organization that is a legitimate organization working in the social sector. All right. And more than just your more than just your nine, ninety, is there? Yeah. So, it’s, just, you know, you can say kind of what your programs are. You can obviously a little bit more about who your leaders are. And frankly, you can also make sure that your correct address appears with your organization. Like you wouldn’t believe, but i know a lot of us move around, and this could be a problem even having the right address, foreign organizations that, you know, step one, you’re on the podium with ron, get over is basically contributing some your actual audited financials or some equivalent. So the nine, ninety, you know, we love we know it, we love it, but it’s a little bit dated and it’s not the same audited financials. So if you if you want to get the silver, you can contribute some additional information about your financials and that just increases trust in your organization. All right, wait, wait even let me stop you doesn’t have to be an audited financial statement cause a lot of small organizations don’t don’t have to do that and don’t do it it’s very expensive, right? So i would say one passes the auditors statement, the other passes the tool basically give you some of the fields that we need that kind of give us a little bit of the equivalent, even if it’s not audited. Okay, i don’t see how you’re very egalitarian there, all right? All right. Gold, gold wolber gold is basically helping tell your story, right? You’re not just your financials, you’re not just your tax form, you’re not even just your address. It’s really about describing what you’re trying to do and what strategy is you’re using to get there? So is allowing you to tell your story in your own words, so more narrative in the gold, more free form, okay? And the pinnacle blast them? Yes, xena, zenith of guidestar presence. I don’t know where they were going to go, you know, diamond emerald next or what? I know well, you have to go like like, you know, it is kopperman basically says, you know it, if gold is the town halls and platinum is a little bit the show, right show it. And so what we’re what we’re looking for there is for organizations to tell us about some of the measures that they use to track their progress in results. So it’s, it’s, more quantitative, you know, give us the measures, but i would say it’s still very inviting for organizations of any size, okay? Because we basically were not dictating to you what you should measure, we’re just asking what you already do and what you care about and what you talk with your board about already in terms of outcomes and impact, is that a is that where you’re going with this? Well, i think we’re starting a basic, even just the outputs, right, sort of what activities, how many people are you’re serving? You know, if you if you have, if you have compelling information about what happens to those people that, you know, you might think of those mora’s out out outcomes, then we are definitely want to know that as well. Okay, i understand. All right, we’re gonna take a break, and, well, professor niko and i have plenty more time left. Teo, go through the rigours of equal m r squared, and so please stay with us, and we’ll keep talking about guide star, platinum and guidestar generally. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Duitz hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. Eva, i elevated you. I called you professor nico. I should’ve just said dr niko. Doctor, have you ever been a bit? Have you have been a professor of physics? You have not right. Okay, i did not recall that in your in your bio, but i want to be sure. So it’s just it’s. Just it’s. Just dr nico. Not not, professor. Um, okay, so no. So after platinum, i don’t know. The best thing i was thinking of was like, you’re gonna have to go, like american express black, but of course, that’s not a metal. So i don’t know where you’re going, but clearly you need you’re going to need more because you’re gonna have a lot of organizations in platinum in a few years and then you’re going to want to distinguish even higher than that. So i hope there’s planning for the expansion in the future, the up on the upside. Well, it sounds like you have some good, great ideas, tony. And if your listeners teo all years yeah, i was thinking, do we go gems? Do we go planet? Do we go colors? Planets is a good one. Oh, yeah, we just found another twelve hundred forty seven planets? I think so. Planet says you’ve got a lot of potential upside potential with planets. That’s a good one. Um okay, so we understand what these levels air about and let’s see what’s so wanted it was anything more you want. Talk about the terms of the of the platforms of the ladder or whatever metaphor you use, teo, describe these different levels. Anything more you want to say about that? I think i think we’re pretty good, although i just want to say that i think what’s really interesting is that it’s already? So we have about over six hundred organizations currently who have gotten to platinum and what’s nice. Is that it’s? Not just some of the big guys? Of course we do have those represented, but it is actually organizations just like ones that are hopefully listening. So i just pulled out a profile here for a little organization called the adult life training incorporated it’s out of fort wayne, indiana. It’s got, you know, an income revenue of, uh, a few thousand dollars on dh what’s. Fascinating is, you know, obviously i can read a lot about their mission. They’re trying to help hyre they’re trying to help people gain employment, but when you go to that platinum results, you see, you know, you see some really fascinating things, like they say here the number of clients that we served, it happens to be thirty eight and twenty fifteen, so now you know, something, they they’ve touched, you know, the lives of almost forty, people hyre here are how many certificates have been earned by those people in terms of further training, the one hundred fifty four and then here’s the numbers of here’s, the number of hours of training that has been delivered and it’s almost six thousand hours of training. And, you know, i’m just saying that i think this kind of information is extremely valuable for other non-profits to see and understand and for donors and thunder to see and understand that’s an excellent example. Thank you. Even what’s the name of the organization again. Shout them out again. It’s called adult life training think and it’s out of fort wayne, indiana. Excellent. Excellent. All right. I hope adult life training is listening, but okay, so that’s a great example of a very small organization. Thirty eight. People served in a year, but hyper local and they’re ah, they’re in the platinum club, you’re in the club, all right? All right. Um, what kind of feedback do you get from donors of potential donors? The individuals using guide star, you know, share some of those hopefully positive stories? I’m sure they are. Well, what kind of stuff do you hear? Oh, i think, you know, donors really these days are increasingly coming online toe look for information about non-profits and i’m sure we all talked about a lot about millennials, but we all know the trends there that increasingly people look for information and people are curious about not only, you know, they do care about some of the financials they do, but they really want to know what? What are some of the results? What does the work look like? They want to see some of the pictures, um, of people being health, and they want to understand the scope of work that a non-profit might be doing. And so we just see a lot of interest in this in this kind of information from donors and hence the new platinum level because that gets to what you’re describing people are seeking. How about from non-profits do you? You get it anecdotes from organisations that are grateful that you’re there because you enabled ah ah! Gift. Absolutely so way enabled give through our through our platform there sort of donate now buttons on our platform, and obviously, as i mentioned, we enable a lot of a lot of non-profits come to us actually, because they are trying to participate in the amazon smile program that’s sort of millions of dollars are moving through the program where someone could buy a book and give to their favorite non-profit at the same time, we actually provide the back end to that information, and so they want to be featured on there, and they come to us sense of mr info and his current with amazon and its current with all those one hundred ninety other websites. So, you know, we definitely see non-profits just being thankful that we save them time and we increase their exposure to all of those different audiences, and they don’t have to maintain a separate profile with all of those different order, which for small non-profit would be a humongous a little more about these hundred ninety partners you have what are some other examples of types of organisations or companies that are using guide stars, expertise and and gathered information? Yeah, great. Great it’s. The second one. Oh boy, thank you. Two in two in thirty minutes. That’s. Great. Thanks. So so one one great example. So all of the major donor advised funds of national donor advised funds that that facilitate e-giving for donors are using guide stars data. So obviously, fidelity, schwab, those those kinds of funds we also, as i mentioned, obviously participate in a lot of that kind of point of sale giving programs. Amazon probably being the biggest one. And then the third sort of the third kind of group of people are, you know, there’s, a lot of crowd sourcing crowd funding web sites out there, you know, global e-giving give well, grassroots or great there’s a lot of sort of crowd funding websites that also are looking for non-profits teo, you know, to be features there, and we provide that information as well. Excellent. Those are some very big names. Cool. All right. We just have about two minutes or so left. Eva and i want to touch on the overhead myth. The the idea that the best way to evaluate a charity is tow no one number. And that is how much of its revenue does it spend on, quote overhead that this bad this bad moniker for all non program expenses. What is guidestar doing to help defeat this myth? We’ve been very active on this because we we think that judging a non-profit by their overhead ratio is just, you know, playing wrong. It’s it’s sort of like judging a business by their cost, without understanding that returned that they might be generating. So what i think it’s wrong to we’ve been active in campaigning and always had sort of a letter to donors, a letter to thunder’s about the overhead miss and how they should be paying more attention to how they think about, you know, how they compensate non-profits for the work, the true cost of the program and briefly overhead is people its executive directors, it it if they are the people also doing the work and being out there in the world promoting the work. So, you know, that that’s been a part of the campaign, the other thing i would say, just a link back to our problem conversation is, you know, so far, we said two donors, please don’t look at the financial ratio, right, it’s sort of like telling people, please don’t think about the pink elephants what’s the first thing you think about, you know, the pink elephants, so i wouldn’t feel like wave tell people not to look at that as the sole measure of success, but we haven’t had a lot to offer. Instead, i feel like we’ve gotten more. We’re going to get their offering them something else compelling to think about it. Look at all right? We have to leave it there. Eva listeners can look back to that show that i had on had with the jacob harold, the ceo of of guide star and the other two signers to the overhead myth letter about two years ago. October was that october. I think twenty thirteen maybe was almost three years ago even thank you very much. Thank you. You’re very welcome. Thank you. Even ico representing, of course, guidestar dot or ge next week, maria simple returns with political giving. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line. Producer gavin doll is our am and fm outreach director. Shows social media is by susan chavez. On our music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for June 10, 2016: Your Little Brand That Can & The Future of Email

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Julia Reich & Stuart Pompel: Your Little Brand That Can

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Control your brand. Respect your brand. Consistently message your brand. Recruit strong ambassadors for your brand. Julia Reich is branding consultant at Stone Soup Creative and Stuart Pompel is executive director of Pacific Crest Youth Arts Organization. This is from the Nonprofit Technology Conference, NTC.

 

 

Sarah Driscoll: The Future of Email

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Email still rules and it will for a long time. Sarah Driscoll urges you to be multichannel, mobile and rapid responding. She’s email director and vice president at 270 Strategies. This is also from NTC.

 

 

 


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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of a non mia if i got a whiff of the idea that you missed today’s, show your little brand that can control your brand respect your brand consistently message your brand recruit strong ambassadors for your brand julia rice is branding consultant at stone soup, creative and start pompel is executive director of the pacific crest youth arts organization. This is from the non-profit technology conference and tc and the future of email email still rules and it will for a long time sabat driscoll urges you to be multi-channel mobile and rapid responding she’s email director and vice president at two seventy strategies that’s also from tony steak too be an insider. We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com also by crowdster online and global fund-raising software for non-profits with apple pay for mobile donations crowdster dot com here are julia rice and stuart pompel welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference we’re hosted by n ten the non-profit technology network, we’re in the san jose convention center san jose, california with me now is julia rice and stuart pompel they’re topic is the little brand that could multi-channel approach for the small non-profit julia is branding consultant at stone super creative and stuart pompel is executive director, pacific crest youth arts organization. Julia stuart welcome. Thank you. Pleasure. Pleasure to have you both. Julia. Welcome back. Thank you from lester’s ntc we are highlighting a swag item at each interview. And it’s, i think it’s only appropriate to start with oh, and ten non-profit technology network score and which i love the reverse side of as zeros and ones. You have your bits and bits and bytes. I believe that anyway. Zeros and ones swag item number one goes into the swag pile. There’s more to come. All right, julian stuart let’s. Talk about the little brandraise multi-channel approach. Small non-profit tell us about about the organization, please. Stuart okay. Pacific crest is a drum and bugle corps and a drum and bugle corps is an elite marching band and it’s made up of students who audition maxes out of one hundred fifty members. And this is a group that performs on field competitions and civic events. But primarily the unique aspect is a tour that our students go on for two months during the summer. Based where so we’re based in something california headquarters in the city of diamond bar. But we have kids from one hundred cities across the state, and we actually have some kids from other countries as well. My, my father was a percussion major, taut drum while taught elementary school music, but his major was percussion. And i, his son, was a failure of a drum. Then i must a clarinet. I tried violin. I practice. So you went from the easiest instrument to the most difficult. I yes. Yeah. My progress showed this, and i was just i was a bad student. I didn’t practice. You only go to lesson once a week. You’re not gonna learn. You have to practice it’s. Very true. What is your background in music? So i was a musician growing up. I didn’t. Major in music in college, but one of the founders of pacific crest on when i first started. I was the percussion instructor, but the group is made up of brass, percussion and dancers. And then a show is created very intricate blend of music and movement. And then we take that show on the road, as i said earlier. Oh, and the unique aspect of it is a two month tour where the kids leave the comfort of their homes and we travel by bus and stay at schools and performed four, five times a week. And just how old are the kids? Sixteen to twenty one. Okay. All right. Julia let’s give you a shout. What does it tell us about stone? Super creative? Well, i’m a branding consultant, and i work mostly with non-profits and hyre ed and i help them to find and communicate their authentic brands to help them maximize mission impact. Okay, very concerned, wei need to be multi-channel right? Because our constituents are in all different channels. And of course, we want to meet our constituents where they are. So we need to emphasized multi-channel ism. Is that true? Multi-channel is, um yes. Okay. It’s like, not discrimination, not we’re not discriminating cross channels. Uh, how do we know where which? Channels we should be focused on because there are so many. How do we know where to be and where to place emphasis? Wow, it really depends on the organization. It depends on the organization’s audiences. I’m sorry. Well, there’s, a broad. How do we know where our organization’s, how do we assess where our organization ought to be? I think that’s a better question for stewart to ask t answer in terms of his organization. Okay, all right, well, all right, where is where is? Where is pacific crest? So way have we have a number of channels, but the website obviously is the first communication place, but on social media, we’re where we limit ourselves to instagram, facebook and twitter and youtube as well we’ve not moved to any others and there’s some philosophical reasons, for example, snapchat is not one that we’re going to move towards of, but we know that the demographics of our organization are trending, you know, in terms of people who are fans and kids who are interested in being apart it’s going to be in that younger age group, and so we know that twitter is becoming more popular with that age group, and so we’re going to do a little bit more there to attract that age group. We also know that facebook is trending mohr a little bit older now, and so there are certain things that we do on facebook that we’re not going to do on twitter. Sorry or vice versa. That’s ok, wei have a small set here they’re squeezed into ten by ten so don’t worry if you knock the night might not mike’s okay? And so that’s how we make some of our decisions. You know, we start with what’s out there a lot of times the kids bring it to us, we should have a snapchat, you know, or we should have a facebook page, or we should have a facebook page for the trumpet section and a facebook page for the you know, and so we have to, you know, we had to be mindful of which ones of the official ones and which ones of the unofficial ones and how are we using social media to communicate? We may be using the facebook page to communicate to the outside world, but we also use social media to communicate within the organization because students, by and large, do not read email that’s for old people. I’ve been hearing that. Yeah, okay, okay. And so so were communicating to our members. Of course i’m going to send email to them in their parents, but we’re also going to follow-up with did you check your email on facebook? Okay, uh now i think it’s important people to know that you do not have any full time employees, we do not pay anybody full time, so we have people who work. Ah, lot of ours, yeah, say that jokingly, but no, we do not have full time employees. Most of the money goes right back into the program. Okay, back-up what’s the philosophical objection, teo snapchat i think for us, the fact that a picture could be taken and or a comment could be made and then it khun disappear and the fact that it doesn’t necessarily disappear because it can be forwarded on, we lose control over it. And so for us, it’s, not something that we’re comfortable with right now. Snapchat is not a bad thing in and of itself, but when it comes to having kids in the group in the organization, we just felt that we’re not ready to do that at this point. Okay, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Dahna julia anything you want to add, teo building a a fiercely loyal group of supporters? Well, i would just add to what stuart was saying in terms of controlling the brand, you know, that’s something that’s important to consider and something we talked about in our session has one of the differences between the for-profit sector and the non profit sector is that we want to take control of our brands so that, you know, we’re in control and people aren’t just making up our brand for us, but at the same time, you know, i think traditionally for-profit sorr yeah, the for-profit sector and, you know, they kind of tightly policed their brands or at least they have, i think that’s changing, but i think with non-profits it’s more there’s, more flexibility built into the brand. So, you know, snapchat i can understand, you know, that’s not gonna work but it’s not it’s more about, like guiding your brands across the channels and, you know, there’s more of ah, sense of collaboration, i think inflexibility with with guiding your brand across the channels, there’s more of an interaction with your audience rather than tightly policing it. Okay, stuart, especially. The age group that you’re dealing with there has to be a degree of flexibility absolutely right? Yeah. That’s. Why, when if the kid comes to me with an idea than you know, that’s, we listen to those ideas because especially now they know how they want to communicate. And sometimes where we come in from the management side is that’s great information. Thank you so much. But you need to understand that there’s a larger picture here. So when a kid comes to me and says, i think we should have different facebook pages for different sections, you know, and we should have a brass facebook page, and we should have ah, regular facebook page and a percussion facebook page. My question back to that student in this case, a nineteen year old kid just asked me that who’s, a member of the corps for three years, i said, can you please explain to me in your mind what’s the marketing reason for that? What is the marketing benefit of having so many different channels that essentially say the same? And so then we get a conversation going to help the students understand that while he may be seeing a small piece of this there’s a larger piece to consider who becomes a teachable moment in that way, but it also then opens up the question of, well, if you want to communicate that way within sections that’s a great idea, let’s, go ahead and make those pages, make sure that i’m an administrator on them so i can see what’s going on and then that’s and that’s how we kind of grew the internal facebook and the i guess, the official facebook okay, you knocking mike twice now? That’s enough! I’m going to stop using my there’s just we’re so excited, we’re just just stick yah late ing wildly teo convey their passionate we are. Thank you so much, stuart. Thank you. Also let’s say julia that’s every file of something something stuart said, not little listening, listening he’s listening to the nineteen year old who want to do something that probably isn’t isn’t in the best interest of organisation, but there’s still a conversation about it listening and all your channels way amplify how that gets done effectively and really, you know, really exgagement well, i think it’s about knowing who your audience is, um, you know, you don’t want to just put your brand out to every single channel in the hopes that it sticks somewhere, you know? I think, it’s what stewart saying is really important, he’s listening to his audience, he knows exactly who is audience is on and he, you know, he’s he’s lucky in that sense, because it’s kind of a built in audience and he’s able to listen to them closely and know, you know, where they want to learn their information, where they want to get engaged, and i think, you know, ultimately all of this leads to trust and trust in the brand, you know, if they feel like they’re being listened to, they’re going to trust the brand, and once they trust the brand, they’re going to support the brand, become advocates, let’s spend a minute defining the brand way you mentioned a few times. I want people to recognize that it’s more than just logo and mission statement amplify that, would you? For us that the brand? Sure. Well, you know, i present the definition of brandon my session, and it was, you know, generally accepted for for-profit sector definition, which is that it’s your reputation and you know, it is your reputation. I agree with that, but it’s your reputation in order to gain a competitive advantage, so that doesn’t really work with non-profits. It is about your reputation, it is about your sense of identity, but you’re not really looking for a competitive advantage, per se. I think what you’re trying to do is clarify what your values are, what your mission is in order you fit in the community, right, and then ultimately, i think, it’s about collaboration, you know, that’s where non-profits do the best work and make the most of their impact. Their mission impact is by collaborating, okay. How do you think about you’re the brand? Stuart, a cz you’re dealing with, a lot of young people are exclusively young people well know their parents also how do you how do you think through this that’s? A good question, because we’ve we’ve had to come to terms with that a number of times because especially with the youth group, the thing that you’re doing is not necessarily what you’re doing, okay? So this producing a show and going on the road and performing that is what we’re doing in terms of the actual product. I guess you could say that we’re creating the program we’re putting together for the kids, but when you’re dealing with students or young people in general, you have to go beyond that. You have to go beyond the we say, you got to go beyond the music, you’ve got to go beyond the choreography and the competition. There’s gotta be a larger reason there’s got to be a so what? To this whole thing and for us, it’s the unique aspect of leaving on tour for two months and something really transformative happens to a kid when he is forced to take responsibility. For himself or herself for sixty days of lock down? Yeah, and for us, it’s maturation, maturation requires coping skills, and as adults, we cope with challenges throughout the day wouldn’t even realize it anymore, but there is an issue in this country, and the issue is that students don’t have the coping skills that are past generation tad there’s a variety of reasons for that that i don’t want to get into, but we create that a pacific crest when you go on tour and you’re living on a bus and you’re driving through the night and not getting as much sleep is, maybe you want to and it’s still hot, but you still have to rehearse and we have a show tonight and people are depending on you. The coping skills get developed quite quickly and learning how to cope and learning how to deal with those challenges leads to maturity. Maturation is a forced condition isn’t come from an easy life, and how does your use of multi-channel strategies online contribute to this maturation process? Right? So they don’t necessarily contribute to the maturation process, but when we communicate what we do, it’s always about the life. Changing experience, even we’re recruiting. We’re recruiting kids and we’re saying we want you to do pacific crest or come check us out because this is going to change your life. It’s not about performing in front of the audience is they already know that’s what they do, they already know they’re going to get into that we want to explain to them and their parents. This is why you’re doing this. You could be in the claremont, you symphony you, khun b in your local high school marching band, you can play little league, you go to the beach, you can do any of these things. But if you want an experience where people are going to applaud for you and it’s going to change your life were the place to go. Julia, how do you translate what stuart is saying, too? Fulwider cem cem strategies for actually achieving this online in the in the network’s. Uh, well, you know, stuart and i met because we were working together. I was helping him with his rebranding a few years ago on dh as part of the process of re branding. You know, there were several questions that i posed. To him, gee, i don’t have those questions in front of me right now, but, you know, it was it was pretty much about, like, you know, who are you? What do you dio and most importantly, why do you do it on also, you know, what is it about what you’re doing is different than what other organizations are doing? What makes you unique, you know, and then ultimately that lead tio three different what i would call brand messages that piss off across has been able to use in one form or another, you know, across their channels in their promotion of their brand, i don’t know, stuart, do you know the brand messages off the top of your head? And we could maybe give an example of how those have been used, okay, what are they? So the first one and these air paraphrased is to bring together a group of kids who are like minded and and want to be in a very high quality, superior quality performance group that pushes them right, okay, the second brand messages that were here to develop your performance skills, okay, which is an obvious one, but needs to be stated, and the third one is the life skills that i mentioned earlier, where we’re going to create an experience that changes your life because of the unique aspect of the tour. And so we hit those super hard in all the channels and all of our communications. So when you mentioned, how else does this manifest itself in communication when we’re talking to people about i’m donating to the civic krauz we’re not talking about donating so we could make beautiful music we’re talking about donating so that they can change a kid’s life through music so that the drum corps becomes the way we change lives, not the thing we do in another cell vehicle, right method rights and it’s about consistency in promoting those brand messages in some form or another, you know, distilled down to their essence. And i think that that is really important when you’re talking about brands. But how do you achieve this? Uh, but this consistency multi-channel some channels, very brief messages. How do you how do you do this, julia? Well, we gave several examples of what you have to think about. Like you know what should be in your mind? Well, i think with every type of marketing communications thatyou dio you want to think back to what the brand represents, you know? So, you know, let’s say your values are, you know, integrity and education, you know, when your personality is fun, you know you can think about while is every message that i’m putting out there. Is it fun? Is it promoting this idea of integrity of educating the child? You know, that’s, those are just examples. But i mean, you can kind of use those as benchmarks. It’s. Almost like the brand is your i like your north star pointing the way, way not a very good that’s. Excellent metaphor. Maybe an analogy. No, i think it’s okay, stuart, who at pacific crest is is producing our managing the channels? Is that all? You? No, we have a social media manager. Okay? And what he does is he uses a nap location called duitz sweet to queue up her posts, but he’s also, we also use him as an internal manager. Two that doesn’t make sense. We use him to monitor what the students facebook pages, because students might say all kinds of things about the organization. And once in a while, there might be something that gets said or posted that is not reflective of what we are, who we are, and then i can always count on brandon to send me an email saying saw this on the kids site and i’ll i’ll contact the kid and say, we need to have a conversation about this post and that’s, so so we kind of do it both ways, we manage it internally, a cz well, as externally, so i don’t know if that answers your question completely, but i’m i’m not in every box of the orc char, but when it comes to communication, i’ve got my finger on that pretty, pretty tightly. Julia hyre maybe how can i be a larger organization, but not huge? But, you know, just a five person organization, i mean, how can they manage this the same way stewart is trying way stewart is doing? But on, you know, smaller scale organisation, how do you sort of manage the integrity and without it being controlling, right? That’s a great question eso when i work with clients, i make sure that if we’re going to go into a branding process that there’s a branding team that really represents all levels of the organization and its not just the marketing people or it’s, not just the executive director, i think it needs to be the executive management team, but i also think it needs to be, you know, everybody, not every staff person, but just every level represented, you know, at the organization, you know, the admin person, maybe it’s a programme, people, i think it could even be bored members, beneficiaries of your services, you know, on some level, i think that they need to be involved in that branding process, and then what happens is that the end? You know, everybody has kind of bought into this idea they’ve contributed, they’ve been heard and they become your brand ambassadors. So you’ve got internally, you’ve got people who are being consistent and engaging in conversation in the same way externally, you know, it’s it’s kind of this marriage of internally, the brand identity is matching with the brand image externally, so it’s, you know, it’s, you are who you say you are, you’re walking the walk and people people get that yeah, i’d like to add to that because julia said something that i hadn’t really considered. We were even talking in our session today. We have a very disagreeable love that we have a session idea for a new session. So we have ah, what i call a disaggregated staff of people. So, you know, we have a few full time or sorry full full time focused on admin, like myself and our operations person and are finance person book keeper, right? But we also have all the people who teach the kids and these folks have to be ambassadors for the brand as well. So when our program director hires a new person to be in charge of all the brass instructors are all the percussion instructors. And we have a team of forty people who work with these kids. So the person in charge of the brass section we call the caption head he and i are gonna have a conversation and we’re going to talk about what the goals are. Pacific crest. And the first thing that he’s going to realize is competition is not part of the goals because it’s not part of the brand. Okay, it’s, it’s. Definitely something we do. But when i talked to him or or her, anybody who’s going to be in charge of the staff, they need to understand what pacific crest is all about, what we’re trying to do and that, yes, i expect you to make helped develop the best brass program that we can have so that the kids have an amazing experience and we can represent ourselves. But there’s a larger reason for that because i want these kids to learn howto work hard. I want them to learn the coping skills, to mature, to feel responsible for themselves and to each other, those air, the outcomes, you’re exactly not not a prize at the company, right? And then and and i and i have jokingly say that every single person on the staff is part of our retention team, you know, and part of our fund-raising team like as good a job as they do of instilling that brand all the way through the organization through the death of the organization is what helps tell her tell her story. More importantly, if i’m in charge of the brass program and now i’ve been told by the director that this is what we’re looking for. Now, when i go find my trumpet instructor and my french horn instructor and my tuba instructor, i have to make sure that they also believe in that same philosophy. And so the nice part for me is once the caption had buy into it, then i’m pretty confident that the people they hyre are also going to buy into that, and so it flows all the way through the organization. Okay, yeah, essentially grand ambassadors, yes, julia and ambassadors, he’s recruiting brand ambassador, random brassieres, duitz a new head of of the percussion section or the right. Yeah, because i mean, the way i used to do it is i would go and i would meet with, you know, the executive director or the marketing director or whatever in your dork, right? Right, right. And, you know, and then we would talk and, you know, then i would, you know, go back to my studio and, you know, work my magic behind the curtain and come back and present them with their brand. And guess what? That doesn’t work at all. You know, because that it’s, you know, either like it or you don’t like it. Collaborative, right? You haven’t been part of the process, right? So it’s harder for you to become an ambassador for it. Buy to get that buy-in right. Right? I mean, have the buy-in yeah. Now, it’s just really about facilitation, making sure that everybody’s heard and, you know, getting everyone on board so that they can own the brand. When it’s, when we’ve come to the end of the process, okay, that seems like a cool place to wrap it up. Okay? I like the idea of the brand ambassadors. Thank you very much. All right. Julia. Right. Branding consultant with stone soup. Creative on stuart pompel executive director, pacific crest youth arts organization. Julian stuart. Thank you so much for sharing. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference san jose, california. Thanks so much for being with us. The future of email coming up first. Pursuant and crowdster you know them velocity is pursuance fund-raising management tool. This is something that was created to help the pursuant consultants internally manage. Their client campaigns, and it was so successful for the company that they rolled it out so that you can use it for your campaign. Without a consultant, you use it on your own it’s your tool to keep you on task, managing time against goal that’s critical whether you have just one person doing fund-raising or you are a team of fundraisers and you have a director of development or vice president, they’d be using the dashboard in the management tools and the fund-raising team, the individual fundraisers will be managing their activities, their priorities, their time against goal with their dashboards, the tools velocity it’s at pursuant dot com helps you raise more money crowdster peer-to-peer fund-raising what kind of events do you have coming up that you may want to crowd source? Have you’re volunteers and your networks out bringing their networks into your event, whether it is ah, gala or a five k run? Or you have an anniversary coming up, maybe it’s, even next year or something? Not too soon to be planning, especially for anniversaries. Crowdster sets you up with the tools that you need the micro sites for each of your volunteers all the social sharing tools, video capability pictures, of course, and the management administration dashboards that you need to oversee the whole campaign you talk to ceo, where else is that gonna happen? Joe ferraro, joe dot ferraro at crowdster dot com where else can you talk to the ceo? Tell him you’re from non-profit radio now tony’s, take two, i urge you to be a non-profit radio insider i hit this last week and i want to do one more time. If you want to know in advance who the guests are going to be, what the video is for the weak also includes takeaways from the previous show. 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Am and fm affiliate station listeners affections to you here are, uh, sara driscoll also from ntcdinosaur on the future of email. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc the non-profit technology conference this is also part of ntc conversations. We’re in san jose at the convention center. My guest now is sara driscoll. Sarah is the email director and vice president at two seventy strategies. We’re gonna get to sarah in a moment talking about the future of email for the next ten years. First, i have to do our swag item for this interview and it is some locally sourced coconut thing. Crackers from crowdster crowdster non-profit radio. Sponsor actually. Crowdster and local crackers. The crowdster crackers. Thank you very much. Crowdster way had these two the swag pile for today. Okay? Sara driscoll, the future of email for the next ten years. Twenty sixteen to twenty twenty six. You’re pretty confident. You know what this is going to look like? Absolutely. Absolutely. You’re not just pretty calm. You’re absolutely confident. No qualification. Okay, um, how do we know what? Well, how do you know what’s going on what’s gonna happen in ten years? Well, i should say i don’t know exactly what’s going to happen, but what we do know is that email isn’t going anywhere. So there’s a lot of debate right now in the tech and non-profit space about, you know, is email still a resource that my organization should be investing in, you know who even check their email anymore? No one reads them everyone’s getting way too much of it all the, you know, millennials are on snapchat and twitter what’s the point of, you know, really investing my email list anymore and the truth is, email is still stronger than ever. I actually just came from another panel where email revenue was up twenty five percent in twenty fifteen the year before, so people are still reading their e mail there’s still donating it’s still one of the most powerful ways to reach people online, we just have to get smarter and more strategic about it. Okay, now maybe there is some age variability, so if your if your constituents he happens to be exclusively sixteen to twenty five year old, maybe email is not the best channel for you. Ah mei is still maybe a channel, but maybe that’s not what your priority should be that’s ah, great point and something that where we’re definitely looking at in terms of you know you not only want to just you don’t want to just rely on one tool for everyone multi-channel write. The most important thing is to look at who your supporters are, what your goals are and make sure you’re meeting your people where they are and so that’s kind of the biggest piece that we talked about yesterday i had folks from the sierra club and act blue join me to talk about their current email, listen, what they’re seeing and the number one theme was yes email still. Alive and well, but it’s no longer king, the most important thing is to make sure you’re going not just with email but really integrating it with all of your digital tools, so making sure supporters are seeing you not just on email but also on social media and just using email as one of the tools in your toolbox, not the only one and consistency across these messages, right? Absolutely we actually to seventy. Our digital ads team recently has been playing around with testing facebook ads that correspond with email. So is someone who reads an email, maybe clicks away from it, then goes on facebook and season ad with the same ask, are they more likely to then go back and don’t have that email on dh it’s across the board? We’re definitely seeing lift there. So with so much of all human so many touchpoint thes days and people having such for attention spans, the more you can get in front of them, the more you can get into their brain, the more likely they are to take the actions that you want them. Tio okay, um, a lot of lessons came out of the obama campaign four years ago now, since so center in a presidential cycle again want to refresh our recollection about how groundbreaking a lot of their work was? Absolutely yeah, and that’s something that, you know, we are three xero everything about this now is, you know, the obama campaign was four years ago email is absolutely huge then is it as huge now as it was back then? The answer is yes, you’re seeing it with hillary and bernie raising tons of tons of money on line, and and it was that same back in in twenty twelve, we raised more than half a billion dollars online over email alone, and i think to really key things came away with from that campaign one was that you should not be afraid of sending maury male ah lot of people, you know, probably complain, and when i tell them today that i was on the obama joint brovey multi and they say, oh, god, they were sending you yeah, yeah, and so they say so it was you who sent me all those e mails, but we tested it thoroughly and we saw no, really no effective sending more email, not everyone’s going to read every single one of your e mails that people who are really, really, really upset about it are might unsubscribes but they’re not the people who you want to reach anyway, they’re not going to be your your top online advocates and supporters if they’re not willing tto gett many male and and you didn’t see large rates of unsubscribes onda well, especially in terms of the people who we want to hit those online donors people. We had one group of people that we segmented out and sent maury mail every single day, so we sent them one or two additional messages. So we’re talking now for five, six emails a day those people actually gave more than the other group because again, it’s about, you know, people have so much email in their in box that you want to just make sure you’re getting in front of them. A lot of people won’t even notice how many you send, and you want to make sure that you’re hitting them with the messages that they were going to respond. Teo but i think more importantly, the reason why are our strategy of sending maury mail? Worked was because every single email felt really personal and really relevant. So, you know, this is your other take away, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we spent so much time crafting the messaging, developing really, really unique center voices that the most felt like they were coming from the president from the first lady from rufus gifford, the national finance director on dh that’s, the philosophy would take a two, seventy two is making every making email personal, so, um, it doesn’t feel like more email or too much email if the email that you’re reading is really strategically targeted to you and feels really personal and timeline relevant what’s happening in the world, it doesn’t feel like, oh, they’re just sending me another email. It’s oh, they’re sending me an email right now because they need my help to achieve this, and if we if i don’t step up and help right now, there’s going, we’re not i’m not gonna help solve this really urgent problem, and and one really clear indicator of that twenty twelve was when we sent the last email from the national finance director rufus gifford, and he said, you know, it was election day. Or the day before like, this is going to be the last time here for me on this campaign, you know, it’s been a wild ride sort of thing. Twitter actually kind of exploded and people were legitimately sad to see rufus go there like we’re going to miss burnam is your proof is i’m gonna miss seeing you in my in box every day, and that was someone who had sent them hundreds of emails, so it just shows that if you take the time to craft really personal messaging that really treats your email subscribers as human beings, they’re most of them will respond really, positively. All right, you gotta tell me what it was like to be just part of the obama campaign and specifically in the in the email team when when you were breaking ground yeah, it was breaking out like i’m a fourteen year old cause i’m so excited, what was that like? It was incredible is definitely one of the best experiences of my life. How’d you get that job? Honestly, i i actually just applied through ah, an online form. One of my friend sent me a list servant said the job. Posting was writers and editors for the obama campaign needed and weinger actually fording that to a friend and saying, ha, like you talk about dream job, i’ll never i’ll never get it, and i didn’t expect to hear back, but i did and you know, the leadership there, it shows that they really were looking for people who are committed and also just great at what they do. It wasn’t about who you knew. They were biggest one to find people from outside the normal realm of politics, and i was working in a really small non-profit at the time, and they saw me and they they liked my rank simple, and here i am today, that’s outstanding, so they didn’t. They didn’t want the the established direct mail on email consultants for inside the beltway, they truly wanted really good writers and on dh that’s something that that i talk about all the time now my current Job at 2:70 whenever i’m hiring, i always say i want great writers first, whether it’s for email, whether it’s for digital, anywhere because digital is all about storytelling and that’s how you move people to take action is by telling them a story that they were gonna feel andi want teo to respond to. And so it all comes back to the words, even in this tech age, around a tech conference, but i’m still, you know, the tools and tech is really important, too. But it will only take you as far as the words that you write twice yesterday came up in interviews that a logical appeal causes a conclusion, but an emotional appeal causes inaction on the action is volunteer, sign forward, share, give, you know, whatever that is, but it’s, the emotional appeal that it creates the action that we want. Absolutely. People are goingto take the time out of their busy days. Toh ah, volunteer, or, you know, give any their hard earned money unless they really feel, and they really believe in it. Okay, all right, so let’s, uh, all right, so let’s, dive into this now, a little more detail. The future. Mobile now we already know that email needs to be mobile responsive is that i hope they’re way past that stage or people still not providing mobile response of emails right now. We actually said that on the panel yesterday, when when we when i introduce the question the panel it was, you know, whether or not my e mail needs to be mobile optimized shouldn’t be a question anymore. It’s more you know, how can i continue innovating and continue optimizing for mobile? Something like my julia rosen for mac blues on my panel said that tamora around forty percent of all donations they processed this last year were from mobile, and they brought in. They just celebrated their billion dollar. So you think about, you know, how i consume email in digital content these days. It’s mostly it’s on the bus when i’m goingto work, you know, it’s when i’m on my couch, watching tv on and it’s almost exclusively on my phone, so on and it’s, not just about making sure it looks pretty on a phone the most important piece now and where where i think especially non-profits can continue to push is making the entire user experience really optimized and really easy, so that goes to saved payment information platforms like act blue and quick donate, making sure you’re capturing people’s information so they don’t have to pull out their credit card on the bus and type in their numbers if they’ve given before you should have it and they nowadays people can click, you know, with single click of the button, and their donation goes through the same thing with the advocacy messages and it’s things like making sure that your, you know, landing page load times are really fast on that they aren’t being slow down with too many forms or too many images. You want people able to hit your donate link on get there immediately or whatever action you want them to take because you’re gonna lose people if they have to sit there on the you know again on the bus forever waiting for your page to load and it’s the more barriers that you can remove, the more likely people are going to follow through. Should we be thinking mobile? First, designing the email for mobile first rather than as the as the add on? Absolutely jesse thomas, who? Is that crowd pack was also on our panel yesterday, and he said that he which i thought was brilliant, he now has his designers and developers do their previews on on a phone. So usually when you’re previewing a new website, you know, it’s up on a big screen, but that no one is going to be looking at it on a big monitor. So he literally has the developers pull up a phone and say, you know, here’s where we’re at in staging so they can, you know, make edits and go from there, okay, okay. Okay. Um, mobile acquisition. You have ideas about acquiring donors and or volunteers or whatever constituents, supporters? Absolutely. Eso from now until twenty twenty six? Yeah, i think it’s just going to get harder and harder. We’re noticing, you know, the quality of of names are going down more and more people want a piece of the pie and i think it’s. So it shows just how strong a male is because people are still are trying to grow their less, which they should and the traditional platforms like care too and change it order still great, but again with mohr and maura organizations rightfully looking to grow their list, we need to start figuring out how else we can get people in the door, so i don’t have the answer. I think this is one of these places that the industry really needs toe latto innovate in i i think that one area that non-profit especially can really ah, investing maura’s peer-to-peer on, but also their people are constant, asking me, how do we get you gnome or more teens for millennials onboard and just going back to like we’re talking about the emotional appeal, people are much more likely to do something if, if asked, comes from their friend or family member esso, i think the more we can get people to reach out to their own networks and bring people onto email list into the these communities on their own, those people are going to be so much more high quality to than any donor that you, you know, that you buy or any listen let’s build that you do that way, so i’m just gonna ask, is a state of acquisitions still buying or sharing lists with maybe buying from a broker or or sharing or somewhat with a similarly situated organization means that still where we are yeah, it’s definitely still worth it to investing list acquisition i always say you have to spend money to make money, but it also goes backto, you know, quality over quantity. I would never recommend an organization going out just buying swaths of names just to say they have ah, big list, you only want a big leslie, you can go to those people when you need that truly yeah, yeah, i do think one area that the industry has grown a ton lately, and i just really going to continue to is in digital advertising, so in the past used to be that you would never you wouldn’t think that you could acquire donors, you know, through facebook ads or that sort of thing and that you didn’t want to ask money over advertising, but in the last year, we’ve really seen that change, and people are really starting to respond more to direct ass over advertising and there’s so much more that we can do there, and in general, the non-profit industry really lags behind corporate marketers, so i think about, you know, my own online experience and i’m constantly being followed around by that those boots that i wanted to buy, but i didn’t, and things like that and, um, the corporate spaces so good at really targeting people with exactly what they want booty just glanced at exactly, but then they’re there and then suddenly they’re in my head and i’m like, oh, maybe i do want them, and more often than not, i buy them, which i shouldn’t. But i think that’s where the organization’s really need to go is really highly targeted, highly personalised messaging that responds tio people’s previous actions are they bun hyre kayman having been on your site for exactly, you know, it’s the most simple exactly just let people tell you the messaging that they want to receive and the type of types of actions that they’re interested in and yes, you can in that digital advertising is going is a huge, huge space for that. But, you know, not every non-profit has a butt huge budget, but you can still look at your own data and figure out okay, who are my people who seem to really like social actions or people who are on ly about advocacy petitions? And target your messaging that way. Let your own data show you the types of emails you should be sent there. Okay, so you so you have a lot of the intelligence. You just have to mind it. Yeah, you have to know what to look for, and you have to take the time, which i know, having worked in non-profits time is your biggest scarcity. So but it’s, so worth it. Really make sure you’re looking at your data and tailoring your messaging that way. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from a standup comedy, tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t g n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation. Top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m lawrence paige, no knee author off the non-profit fund-raising solution. You have ah, advice around rapid response. Yeah, i love rap response so way. Talking about after a donation or, well, after some action has been taken by that we mean no wrappers. One’s mohr is just respond to something that happens out in the world. Okay, yeah. So event that’s topical? Absolutely, yes. So on. And this is a struggle that we had in twenty twelve, and i think every aa lot my clients have and that every organization has is where you spend so much time cal injuring and planning and designing these amazing campaigns, as you should. And then, you know, something happens, and every single time i’ll tell people you want to respond to what’s actually happening in the world doesn’t matter how how much you love the campaign you had planned for may be this day. People are going to respond much more to what they’re seeing and hearing and feeling rather than what you’re, you know, the committee’s trying to crack for them from you. So and i think, there’s ways that organizations can set themselves up for success with rapid response. So first, is this having a process for it? So, you know anyone who works in email knows that you can spend a lot. You get bogged down approvals processes and getting emails actually set up and out the door. Make sure you have a plan for if something happens that you need to react, tio, that you’ll be able to turn something around quickly expedited approval, absolutely put out the layers that we don’t really need you to get this out within hours. Really, we’re talking about our absolute, the quicker you want to be the first person in their in box and that’s, you know and and and also you don’t wantto on lee, send the one email, though, and then walk away and say, we did our operas, rapid response. We’re done it’s a big enough moment. Keep it going. You should, you know, make sure you’re following up with people who took the action with different actions to take and just keep the keep the drum beat up for as long as its people are paying attention to it. Okay, okay. Let’s see are their automated tools that weaken, weaken you can recommend around rapid response that that help i would say automation is actually that is is great and i think is a huge space that non-profits and grown as well. So again, corporate marketing so much of what you see, those drip campaigns, the re targeting you get is automated esso they have a lot more time tio, you know, think of the next creative thing to dio rather than just manually setting up the next email to send you know, an hour after someone visit their website, but it’s, when you’re playing with automation, it’s really important to not just set it and forget it because of moments like rapper response. So if you have ah triggered welcome siri’s set out for new people who join your list, don’t just let it go for a year and not updated with what’s actually current and relevant, same thing if you if you know that you’re going to be having automated message and going out and then something happens, you want to make sure that you’re going back in and either advising or pausing it, especially if it’s unfortunately never. Want this? But if it’s a tragedy or something out in the world, you also really don’t want to seem tone deaf. So automation is great, but and we actually talked yesterday about, you know, if we’re all going to be replaced by robots one day robots can do all of the automation take a lot of the work off your hands, but they don’t have the brains and the heart to think about. Okay, wait, what? What does a user really want to be hearing right now? Be sensitive exactly sensitive to what people are feeling? Yep, reading okay, okay, fund-raising have ideas around fund-raising lots of ideas about fund-raising i think about it way too much. I mean, this could bea, you know, you talk about fund-raising for hours, i think the interesting thing right now that people are seeing is we saw we saw this huge boost in email on online fund-raising, you know, around twenty twelve and with all of the ground that we broke their and things like quick donate all these new technologies appearing, making it easier for people to give online, so we saw a huge boost around then and now and also my clients and organizations i’ve been hearing around here are kind of seeing a plateau effect, so let’s say you’ve done all the optimization. Sze yu have the tools, but and so you probably saw some huge a huge boost in your numbers, but now you know, what do you d’oh and so and with and it’s also like the cat’s out of the bag with the male fund-raising right, like people know that it works so now everyone’s doing it and that gets back to the volume issue where how do you break through the noise? That’s? Why, i think it’s super important oh, really? Look, at first we’ll continue toe investing your list, get those new people on board, but also look at the people that you currently have and make sure that you’re you’re targeting them effectively so things like making sure that you’re sending the right ass amounts for people segmenting by previous action taker. So if someone’s dahna someone who is an offline volunteer but probably be a wonderful online fundraiser for you two and too often organizations treat they’re people in silo, so they’re volunteers are out in one area and digital isn’t really touched them? Their direct mail people are in a whole other area, then they’re online givers are also treated differently and it’s so important to look at each user individually as a whole person and making sure that you’re there recognized that there recognized for their relationship with the organization. Surveys could help. Here is really simple where we had someone on the show yesterday talking about just like five or six questions surveys? How many times do you want me to do? Do you want to hear from us? What channel do you want to hear? When should we ask you for for your your gift? If they’re assuming they’re in annual about a sustainers but, you know, so simple, like survey and listen yep, yeah, and then adhere to what they asked, absolutely so again, because there’s so much volume the more personally khun make your messaging, the more like the people are to respond. Another thing i’d say is there’s also, people often ask what the magic number of fund-raising emails is a year, but i think it’s so much more important toe to make sure that you’re developing really creative and interesting and timely campaigns, so look at your entire year and you really do have to start a year back and figure out what’s, you know, if they’re big moments that you know of that you can create fund-raising campaigns around. So, you know, giving tuesday is a great example of it that’s when it’s really blown up in recent years because it’s such end organic fund-raising opportunity that people are listening to in paying attention and they want to be a part of, and now the challenge is figure out how to create those moments your own moments, right? Because so many people are now involved in giving tuesday it’s hard tto tto break through the noise. So look at your calendar. Figure out what your giving day could be, where khun, you drum up noise around your organization and the more that you can tie it to a specific date so you can then have a deadline and a goal and ramp up your volume towards it. The more likely people are toe to pay attention, you know it’s all about crafting that urgency in a really authentic way. Okay, we’ll leave it there. Sara driscoll. Okay, great. Thanks so much. You’re loaded. With information, talk about enough for our how did you get this into ninety minutes are over long. Okay. Sara driscoll she’s, the email director and vice president at two seventy strategies and this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc the non-profit technology conference. Thank you so much for being with us next week. Stephen meyers with his book personalized philanthropy if you missed any part of today’s show, i press you find it on tony martignetti dot com. Where in the world else would you go? I’m starting to see some clarity about whether to continue this lucid lucidity is approaching. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now with apple pay crowdster dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff sam liebowitz is the line producer gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director to show social media is by susan chavez, and our music is by scott stein be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great xero what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of offline as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gifts. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for August 29, 2014: Your Personal Brand

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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My Guest:

Dorie Clark: Your Personal Brand

Dorie Clark
Dorie Clark – photo credit Aleks Karjaka

Think about going out on your own? Are you already? You should meet Dorie Clark. Employee? You still should meet her. She’s the author of “Reinventing You: Define Your Brand, Imagine Your Future” and she’s with me for the hour.

 

 

 

 

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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with booty news fever if it came to my attention that you had missed today’s, show your personal brand are you thinking about going out on your own? Are you out already? You should meet story clark she’s, the author of reinventing you define your brand imagine your future and she’s with me for the hour on tony’s take two. I’ve got time away this week. Did you get yours? We’re sponsored by generosity, siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks i’m really joyed to ah, welcome dori clark here to the studio. She’s, a marketing strategy consultant, professional speaker and frequent contributor to harvard business review and forbes, associated press and fortune, have dubbed her a branding expert. Her book is reinventing you define your brand, imagine your future and it’s being translated into russian, chinese, french, polish and tie out of time she consultant speaks for the ford foundation, yale university, mount sinai medical centre, google, the world bank, microsoft, morgan stanley and the national park service you’ll find her at dori clark dot com on twitter she’s at dori clark dorie, welcome to studio tony, thank you for having me, it’s. My pleasure. I’m glad you’re here alive in person and, uh for the full hour to real pleasure. Um, the personal brand. What what is the personal brand? Well, your personal brand is really a synonym for your reputation at a very basic level. The term personal brand came into popular use starting in nineteen ninety seven, when there was a well known cover story in fast company magazine by management guru named tom peters called the brand called you and so people began throwing around that term personal brand, but really what? It’s, what it’s talking about something it’s referring to has been happening for millennia, which is what is your reputation? What people think of you? And is it what you might wish them to? You have? Ah, very interesting journey that brought you here. You’ve done a lot of diverse things about different things in your background share it’s true it’s true writing, the book reinventing you really initially stemmed from my own personal experience because i’ve had to reinvent myself. Many times i after graduate school, i got a master’s degree in theology. Very young. Yes. You were very young student. Yeah, yeah. Harvard divinity school, right. It’s true. I went to college when i was fourteen. Graduated. One is eighteen, so i got the i got the master’s degree at twenty that’s. Remarkable. Yeah. You know, just kind of kind of what? You now in college. You were in college of fourteen. That’s, right? That is really something. And where was that? Where’d you go to college? They haven’t early entrance program at mary baldwin college in virginia. So i did that for two years, and then i transferred to smith, where i finished it up, but i was from a small town in north carolina. It was very boring, so i needed to do something. We’re in. We’re in north carolina. I grew up in pinehurst, which is famous for its golf resorts. I am going to pinehurst this afternoon. That’s. Really impressive. I own a home there. I’m not kidding you. Yeah, i didn’t know you’re from pine er’s. Yes, jane. What street did you grow up? My grip on linden road, if you know what. I don’t think that’s a pretty big road it iss my home is on thunderbird circle wow, darryl woods. Oh, my goodness. I’m going there this afternoon to see my bags. We came in studio c. Them there. I’m going this afternoon. Awesome! What? You can say hi to my mom. I’ll hook you up. It’ll be fan. You are not from that small a town. Pinehearst is very well known for golf. I don’t play golf. Do you play golf? No, that was my that was my teenage rebellion. You know, i could have smoked crack, but instead i said no. I am not going to play golf. That is how i’m going to rebel xero did smoke crack? No. Okay. That’s. Not the path you chose. No. I mean, the u s open was just there. You know, it was world. It was world renowned just just in june. That’s, right? Usopen, men’s and women’s was just there. Absolutely. What a remarkable coincidence that i did not know. I’m glad. Well, when you said north carolina always asked what town finer and your mom’s still in on linden boulevard? She has moved. She’s moved to southern pines. Now but she is vicinity? Yes, i might have dinner in southern pines. A chef warren’s. All right, well, we’ll make sure to connect you she’s fun. Holy cow. Alright, pinehurst, north carolina that’s, right. So the first person i met from there, but go ahead. So you were brilliant because you were doing very well in the pinehearst. The school’s? No, no doubt. Well, i had i had to flee pinehurst because it’s very small. And, you know, aside from the gulf is, you know, so so yeah, that sort of propelled me teo to move on and go to college early. But when i want to finish college, i got my first job. That i got was as a reporter, and i loved it thought it was great. But about a year into it, i get laid off because i had unfortunately chosen a bad time to get into journalism because the industry was starting to collapse. So i needed to do something different. I managed to get a job doing press on a political campaign on a gubernatorial race in massachusetts where i was living. And then my candidate lost. And so then i had my sights trained. On working on the next presidential election. This was two thousand for and so i did manage to get a job doing press on this presidential campaign. I became a spokesperson, and unfortunately, i can that it lost. So this presidential campaign bradrick arrack who’s worked for howard dean. Okay, yeah. So exciting. Campaign that was not successful. What was the what was the year? It was two thousand for two thousand four, i was behind. Okay, yeah. And so after that, i got a job. Like like many of your listeners in the nonprofit sector, i decided that i would metoo two major things that i wanted to do it either wanted to do communications at a large non-profit or i wanted to run my own small non-profit and so i ended up doing the latter. I get hired as the executive director of an organization called the massachusetts bicycle coalition, which was the statewide advocacy group for biking in massachusetts. We had thie robust budget of one hundred fifty thousand dollars a year. And from that, we managed teo squeak out about two point five staffers. And we ran a really tight bootstrapped operation which many of the people listening here can probably relate to know for sure that come for some one hundred fifty thousand dollars is what they’re aspiring to that’s, right, exactly. And and so then i did that for two years and then launched my own consulting practice, which have been doing for the past eight years, and so is part of that. I write books, i give talks, i do marketing consulting, and i also teach for a number of business schools, including duke’s, fuckwit school of business. Which brings me back to north carolina quite a bit interesting. Maybe we’ll hook up in north carolina sometime that’s, right way are here, both in new york, too, so it’s that is considerably easier, but we have a world of options, tony. We could do it here in north carolina, but i don’t play golf either, so we don’t have to worry about gulf. Uh, i don’t really care for it, and i don’t know, i watch it. My house is on one of the courses, but it’s a good thing. It’s, a quiet sport, it’s, very noninvasive sport, that’s, right? When now i think we should we should say that i’m gonna approach this with dori, sort of as if you’re for people who are on their own or maybe they’re in a non-profit, you know, and they’re and they’re thinking about going off on their own, as you did. But this our conversation certainly applies to people who are employees and intend to remain employees, right? I mean, they also have and should be fostering their personal brand absolutely it’s ah it’s increasingly essential. I mean, one of the things that i realized in the course of writing reinventing you is that, you know, perhaps for self evident reasons. If you are an entrepreneur, consultant, things like that, you need to have a strong personal brand because it’s, part of your marketing, you’ve gotto attract clients to you and things like that, but having a strong personal brand is equally important if you were inside an organization because really, fundamentally what it is is a form of career insurance. Too many people don’t think about it, they just, you know, do their job. They’re busy people, and they don’t really spend a lot of time thinking about what their reputation is and unfortunately, if you are not aware of it, i mean doesn’t mean that you have to be thinking about it twenty four seven but if you don’t think about it, sometimes it means that other people may be getting not the full picture and not the correct picture about who you are and what you’re capable of, and if their vision of you is stuck in the past, it means you’re probably missing out on opportunities because things that you might really want to do opportunities you might really want to have your not going to be on people’s radar screen for that. You, uh, you break the branding process into into three very nice phases, which we’re gonna have plenty of time to talk about before go out for a break. Why don’t you just introduce us to the two or three phases? Absolutely, tony, as i describe in reinventing you, there are three fundamental stages to personal branding that people need to go through the first is getting getting a sense of what your current brand is, because people think something about you, nobody is a blank slate and you can’t make good decisions about how you want to move your brand forward unless you know where you’re starting so that’s number one number two is formulating that proactive vision of how you do want to be perceived. What would you like people to say about you when you leave the room? And how do you create your own narrative so that other people can get it? And then third and finally it’s about living your brand because your brand is about a lot more than just what you say about yourself, it’s about everything you do it’s about how you live your life, and so we need to make sure that you are manifesting that in a consistent way and in an authentic way outstanding that’s great set up, we’ll go out for our first break, and when we come back door and i’m going to keep talking, we’re going toe go through the three stages of branding, so i know you’re going to stay with us don’t even have to ask you to. You didn’t think that shooting getting dink, dink, dink, dink, you’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get a drink. Nothing. Cubine this’s. The same way we’re hosting part of my french new york city, or guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back french is that common language? Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it comes desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them, shed this story. Join us, part of my french new york city. Every monday from one to two p, m. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I wish i could send live listen, love, but i can’t today, of course, like live love live listener love out to everybody who is listening, but i can’t give the states and cities, as i routinely do were pre recorded today, but you know who you are, whether you’re new to the show live or one of our regular live listeners live listener love out to you and, of course, those were sitting in the time shift podcast. Pleasantries, too, are over ninety five hundred listeners listening wherever you may be. Treadmill car, subway, airplane, wherever you are. Podcast pleasantries, okay, dorri um, yes, people perceive us that we have a brand, whether we know it or not, whether we like it or not. How do we find out what where we stand? Well, one of the first starting points tony is turning to other people, which i think you know, for some people, for most people, actually, they assume that they already know what their brand is. Oh, i’ve got that covered. Yeah, i know, but the truth is, most people don’t. We have blind spots. And so there are things that were really just not aware of. And so one simple exercise that i often suggest in the course of reinventing you is starting out with a very basic exercise go to about half a dozen people that, you know, you know, coworkers, friends, whoever and ask them if you only had three words to be able to describe me, what would they say? This is not a very taxing exercise. Someone can think of it in two minutes, but it’s incredibly illustrative because number one most people never ask that question. And number two, you are very rapidly, probably by the third, third or fourth person going to start to see patterns in what they say and the words that they use and that can be helpful because what this is doing is showing people what comes through the loudest we know too much about ourselves, that’s the problem, and so we can’t really tell what is most unique or what is most significant other people and so on asking a few people, you’re going to begin to see what really seems meaningful to other folks and can give you a sense of what? Your what your strengths are that you’re operating from if you’re fortunate enough to work with a neg zakat of coach, they will often do that for you, absolutely. But can we count on people being honest in those three words? If i’m asking face-to-face can i? Can i? Can i count on honest feedback? Great question you can count on mostly honest feedback, and that is actually good enough, so number one people are not gonna lie to you there. You know, if you’re a really gregarious person, they’re not going to say, oh, well, you’re so quiet, tony, or, you know, whatever, they’re going to mostly tell you the truth, i see mostly because your absolute right, they’re not going to say, oh, well, you are, you know, way too whatever, they’re probably going to pick the positive qualities and so the exercise that, you know, the discipline that we need to go through is you take these three qualities, which indeed are probably good positive qualities, and we need to go through them and ask, you know, just mentally ask ourselves. Is it possible that i am too much of these things? Is it possible that this strength is so strong, it actually is a weakness. And so, for instance, someone might say to you, oh, you are so visionary and of course, that’s a great thing, it’s a great thing to be visionary, but you need to ask yourself, could i be so visionary that it’s possible? I am not detail oriented enough. And if you look at it, if you look at the converse and are open to understanding that about yourself, that not necessarily a weakness, but it may be a weakness, then you can get the full picture of the information that you need. And you’re going to see some trends in just doing this with just five or six. Yeah, it was like, i mean and that’s enough. And you might want to sample different people in your lives, like people on the business side. People on the personal side. Yeah. It’s useful to get a cross section because we are, you know, i mean, for most of us were not completely different people, but but we do highlight different aspects of ourselves in our work-life versus our home life. Now, in one of the videos you have hungarian saying yes, i wanted to share that there’s there’s a woman. And actually, you know, interestingly tony it’s a day of coincidences. I am meeting this woman in person for the very first time today, right after this interview. We’re going to expose you to this quote that’s, right? Okay, yeah. We’re meeting for coffee in about ninety minutes. But she’s an angel investor from utah. Her name is judy robinette. She actually had a book about network and come out earlier this year, which is really interesting read but she we we met, you know, online and connected about three years ago. And as we were discussing the book that i was then in the process of writing, she said, oh, you know, this is so interesting. This reminds me of a hunger of famous hungarian quotation and of course, you know, i looked it up and, you know, i think we can find absolutely no evidence that it’s, a hungarian croatian, so we will nonetheless give her credit for it because it’s a great saying and and so what judy robinette says is if three people tell you you’re a horse by a saddle and what i love about that is that, you know, it really shows that there are things that can be so obvious to the rest of the world that we’re just not seeing about ourselves. And if one person tells you whatever, they could be deluded, they could have a weird perspective. But if everyone’s telling it to you, maybe you ought to listen. So what should we do with the with what we learned from from this exercise? Well, i think the first thing that we need to do is is to really hold it up and to say, okay, if this is the feedback i’m getting is this what i want to be getting is is this the message that i want to be sending to the universe? And if it is great perfect, you’re right where you should be. But if there are gaps, if if it’s not quite how you want to be seen, then you need to start asking the question. Well, what can i do to get people to see me? How, how i would like them to. Okay on dh that’ll lead to the second phase, but way have plenty of time, so we don’t have to rush that’s, right? Examples in there. Yeah. So, you know, just a quick point. I mean, i think for anyone who, if they want to make a shift, i mean, you know, the book reinventing you is really for intended for people who want to sometimes they want to do something, you know, really bold, like, change careers other times, it’s, that they may like what they’re doing, but but they want to just shifted a little bit. Maybe they want a slightly different position in their organization. Or maybe they want to take their job that they have now and emphasize certain parts and de emphasize others. And they need to get the buy-in of the organization to be able to do that. Even for, you know, sort of small reinventions like that. You may need to reposition yourself so that people get it. Oh, well, she’s, she’s really good with major gifts. So we ought to be giving her make more of that. That sort of thing or for the person who depart decides teo depart. What? What? I, uh, not so not so politely called wage slavery and and go off on your own then? Certainly all the more, because when you’re on your own, you are your work is your is reflected in your brand, and your life is reflected in your brand. Your brand reflects your right. I mean, it’s all zoomed in one. Yeah, exactly. I didn’t say that very articulately. I know you’ll say it better when we get teo you. When we get to the third phase, i know you’ll be much more articulate about that. But, um okay, um, so is anything else any other advice in this in this first phase about discovering what people think aboutyou what your reputation is? Well, i think i think it’s a pretty, pretty good quick overview s oh, yeah, way we could move on to phase. Teo, please. Like so, uh, this is this is what you’d like it to be. Yeah, go ahead. Absolutely. So so in in this next step, you begin to really create that vision of where you want to go. And some people already know they have a really clear sense, you know? Okay, i want i mean, i mean, finance and i want to move into marketing or whatever it is. And if you know that’s great for other people. It involves a little bit more excavation, and so in reinventing you, we talk about how to really home in on what you want to be doing and give suggestions, you know, whether it’s about finding finding ways to connect with people through informational interviews or creating your own kind of curriculum or reading list so that you can really get clear on that vision because one of the things that we see is that sometimes you can run into a challenge, because if you go out too soon and put out a thesis, i guess you could say, if you if you aren’t one hundred percent sure, but you say, yeah, i really want to do this, and then you change your mind you actually lose a little bit of political capital with people because they begin to see you. Is this person who’s crying wolf? Well, she told me she wanted to be a travel writer, and i introduced her to my friends who were travel writers, and now she doesn’t want to do that, and so it means they’re less likely to help you. So you have to be clear about what you’re messaging is at this. Stage that you can say, well, i’m exploring a number of options, and one of them is this, and i’d like to learn more, and that way people can calibrate accordingly how they’re going to help you. And in what way, right? She’s, considering something she’s been triggering travel writing, among other things, would you would you mind talking to her that’s, that’s, exactly right, another really important phase once you do get clear on where you want to go, and this is often times people ask me the question, where do most people fail in their reinventions? And i think this is the place is about creating a narrative, and i’ll tell you what i mean by that. Basically, most people, sadly, are not paying that close attention to you and your career arc they’re they’re kind of, you know, we’re overloaded. Yeah, we’re overloaded that, you know, they think, oh, tony that’s nice, you know? Yeah, he does blah, blah, blah. And it may be what you did like five years ago, but they just haven’t checked in to pay attention. Update their vision of you. And so, as a consequence, what we need to do is to create a really, you know, short, pithy, just a couple sentences explanation for people of what you know what we’ve done in the past, what we want to do and how it is that our past experience actually makes us really well qualified for this new thing, because otherwise they’re not going to make the connection. They’re not going to take the time to do it. They may not have the mental bandwidth they may say, oh, that’s, completely random you used to do non-profit fund-raising and now you want to be a travel writer? How does that possibly relate? Oh, he must be having a mid life crisis and, you know, meanwhile, you could have a really articulate explanation of how these things connect, but you need to give it to other people because if we asked them to invent it on their own, they’re not going to and it’s gonna be a lot less flattering than whatever you come up with. Can you give us a sample? Yeah, absolutely. So, i mean, in my case, i made a transition, which i think for a lot of people seemed random after i finished running mass bike. I started this. Marketing, consulting business and you might look at that and say, wait a minute, what? You know, what do you know about that? How do these things connect? They had no idea, but i needed to have a good explanation because otherwise no one would hire me. I needed to be ableto be convincing enough that i could build a client base and get business. And so even if you’re, you know, ableto created a short statement, i mean, in my case, it was something along the lines of, you know, i’ve in my career i’ve done a lot of media relations from being a journalist, too, working on a presidential campaign to running a non-profit and what all of those things have in common is it’s about finding creative ways to break through and get noticed in a crowded media environment. And so now, as a marketing strategy consultant, if you hire me, that’s what i can help you, d’oh, i can help your company or your non-profit get noticed and draw in the people that you need to support your cause, and so then they can look at it and see oh, actually, yeah, that that does make sense there is a common strand, whereas they might not have been able to piece that together themselves. Where does the will you recommend the informational interview? Are you are you calling on your friends and colleagues and your network to help you, teo find informational interviewing opportunities? Yeah. I mean, it’s really easier than ever, teo to do informational interviews. I mean, now that we have tools like linked in i mean, in the past, it was a little bit scattershot. Seo i’m really interested in this. Do you know anyone know? Do you know anyone know? You know, now, if you really want a job doing whatever if you want to be a travel writer, if you want to work at google, you khun see really easily in two seconds. Who? You know, that knows somebody there, and that makes it very efficient. But i think you know, we all no it’s sort of been, you know, drilled into our brains from college on word. Oh, yes. Do do informational interviews that’s really important? But i think there’s a few things that people miss, which is why i am dwell on it fairly extensively in reinventing you because there’s ways to do it right i think for a lot of people it’s, it’s a kind of, you know, like almost a military operation, they go in, they go out and that’s it. They think that having having this meeting and extracting information is the goal and yes, it it issue do you want to get interesting information that can help guide you on your career course, but really, if you’re doing it right, what an informational interview is is a prelude to relationship building, and most people don’t know how to keep the relationship alive beyond the thirty minute coffee and the rial secret is using that time strategically not just to get answers to the literal questions you have on the sheet of paper, but to learn enough about the person so that you have an excuse for a relationship. You find out about what sports team they like, and so then every two or three months when they’re sports team does well, you can send them an email and congratulate them, or you find out that they’re going to be taking a trip in a couple of months to asia, and so you give them travel. Tips before they go. And when they come back, you email them to follow-up and ask how it is. You know, whatever it is, but you you want to plant the seeds so that you can continue to stay in touch and have this person be a permanent part of your network, not a hidden run. We have partners. We have pinehurst you this i don’t even know if we find her. Ok, i know. Now now we’re going to be in touch for life. I have the local blogged i can forward you the local block from darryl woods. Oh, my goodness. Clolery e-giving giving a talk in pinehurst in october. Really? Where you can come where? There’s there’s, the famous ruth polly lecture siri’s at sandals community center in chicago. I know the college. I know the college well, yes, and s so i’m going to be part of it along with its an interesting line up. It is me. It is the just announced yesterday. It is morse dease who is apparently a civil rights pioneer. And paul wolfowitz so oh, my god. Yeah. It’s. Very interesting. Mix samuels. Community college gets gets quite a quite a panel nature. D’oh, he’s in a mr as as you are in. Well, he’s yeah. He’s an a lister in certainly different circles. Bigger. Just bigger circles. But you got your niche that’s, right? Of course. Um, cool. All right, well, to follow up on that, too. Yeah, i would rather i would rather do something like that. The information of you face-to-face if at all possible instead of over the phone, which is convenient, but i prefer to see people face to face. We have be your if it’s if it’s feasible. Is that your advice? Yeah. Absolutely. Say, no, i’m off the off the charts. That doesn’t make any sense. Yeah. No, no, you’re right. I mean, really the goal in addition, teo, as we said, in addition to getting the information, it’s, you want the person to remember you, you know, you you want a year later, you don’t want the person seo dori clark, who was that? You know, if you’re going to invest the time you, you want to turn it into something, and they’re far more likely to remember you if they’ve met you in person, if they know what you look like. If they have this sort of vivid memory, as opposed to just having a telephone conversation where just recedes into their memory immediately. Yeah, yeah, the ongoing relationship. Exactly. You. No way we can use the online networks for keeping in touch, but for setting, you know, for establishing a relationship, i just always prefers to. Face-to-face yeah, that’s, the way to do it, for sure, whenever possible. Okay, cool. Let me i’m gonna digress a bit because i wantto talk about a sponsor for the show, so i’m going to ask if you have ever done a run walk now you were with mr zits was bicycle coalition? Yes, so they ever do run walks way didn’t because everything everything involved biking, but but we, uh, we we do. We do support other means of locomotion as well. We give them the thumbs up. Ok, so the coalition supported walking a cz an alternative to baking that’s right way understand it in certain circumstances, one cannot always be on a bike, so in that case, if you can walk, go for it and our sponsor is generosity siri’s and they host multi charity five runs and walk fantastic so that a bunch of small charities get that can’t create an event on their own because they don’t have enough participants can come together ten or twelve form or charities, and they each have maybe twenty, twenty five maybe even fifty runners and walkers and together there’s hundreds and hundreds of people such a good idea, and it creates and it creates a cool event. I hosted one of theirs. Out in brooklyn last november and there were a couple hundred runners and it was the it was great fun event there’s, like a dozen charities or so one hundred thirty five thousand dollars was raised. It was a fun day was fundez so listen, as you, you have heard me talk about generosity, siri’s they have events coming up in new jersey, miami, atlanta, here in new york city, philadelphia and toronto, so, uh, i hope that if you think a run walk fits into your fund-raising plan that you’ll talk teo dave lynn he’s, the ceo of generosity siri’s he’s at seven, one eight five or six nine triple seven of course, i would prefer to talk to people you probably don’t want to drop by the office, but meeting him face-to-face call him first and then set up the face to face meeting aunt, of course, generosity siri’s dot com you’ll find them there too, and we are pre recording today as i mentioned as you are listening to today’s show i am on the beach at bethany beach inn in delaware, totally disconnected for the whole week. I’m offgrid there’s, no email, i’m not checking in. Four, square. I’m not taking texts, and i hope that sometime during this summer, you had or will have all those summers dwindling, thie opportunity to do the same. You’re in here, in a profession where you’re giving to others, and if you’re going to be successful at giving, you have to take sometimes, and that means take care of yourself, and that means take vacation and take time away. So back in spring, i urged you to plan some time, and i hope that you did. I really hope you got some time away. You come back refreshed, rejuvenated. If you want to be successful e-giving sometimes you do have to take for yourself, and i hope you did this summer and that’s tony’s take two for friday, twenty ninth of august, the thirty fourth show of the year do you take you take time off story? You go offgrid no, no, but i i should probably listen to you, tony, but no, actually i don’t i’m kind of ah ah work maniac, but but i’ll put an asterisk on it because for me, i feel like they’re phases in people’s professional lives, you know? And there are times when you really need to put the pedal to the metal when you feel like it’s, a unique opportunity for traction in your career, and if you sense that you have that moment, you really need to exploit that moment, and there are other opportunities for youto, you know, to rest up or to take a break, things like that. And so for me, my first book came out last year, two thousand thirteen, and really, since that moment, i’ve been going full steam ahead with speaking engagements, consulting things like that because the book is kind of a singular opportunity that that you know there’s there’s chats, there’s attention, it’s a moment when if you harness it properly, you can build up additional momentum that can help you coast a little bit more later because the snowball has been building and s o similarly, i’ve been working very hard this summer, finalising the text for my next book, which is coming out in two thousand fifteen. In the spring, it’s called stand out how to find your breakthrough idea and build a following around it. So i’m actually carting around right now in my briefcase, thie final edits, which i am going to be submitting in less than a week. So so that’s pretty exciting, and we’ll be working hard promoting that. But i do think that you need you need breaks eventually, you know? Some people have different theories that, you know, on different things that work for them. Some people, you know, the weekends need to always be sacrosanct and that’s the time that they take off other people, they say, well, you know, i need to always take, you know, at least a two week vacation in the summer and that’s my time to disconnect andi. You know, those air all good, plausible strategies for me of been going pretty hard the last couple of years, but, you know, one of my ambitions for myself once this next book is out had launched and promoted and to actually do something kind of kind of wild and crazy, i mean, i wanted teo one of the things i’m kicking around used to, you know, maybe live abroad for a year and just be, like, traveling and things like that. I sold my house earlier this year, so i now don’t you know, i’m renting now i don’t have things that are locking me down, so i’m actually laying the groundwork to be able to take a real chunk of time after after the book is launched to be able to have ah, time, you know, not necessarily a pure arrest, but a time of aa lot more lifestyle, recreation, i’m standing out is incredibly difficult in are very noisy environment. It is absolutely it’s ah it’s getting to be more and more of a challenge. There’s i mean, if you look even just blog’s there’s over one hundred fifty million blog’s out there, not to mention you know tweets and everything else in the world. So it is it’s very hard, increasingly, to stand out. But, you know, there’s there’s an upside and a downside to all this, right? Because the very reason for that is that it’s easier for than ever for people to get in the game. It used to be not that hard to stand out because there were gates and the gates were locked, and, you know, once once you were in the gates, you know, we had three tv stations, and so if you’re on tv, you’re famous now, you know, the upside is that you don’t have to wait for abc, your nbc to give you the green light. There are no barriers to enter, no barriers. You can make your home podcast, you can make your own tv show. You put it up on youtube, you know, whatever you want to do it’s out there, but the challenge is how do you then attract the audience for? And how do you get it noticed? And s o it’s it’s exciting because it actually is more egalitarian than it’s ever been. We all have a chance and that’s really what the book is about is how to seize that chance if you believe in what you’re doing. If you think it’s a message that people ought to hear, i want to help you get it hurt. Is that also published by harvard business review? No, the first one was the second one is going to be done by penguin by their portfolio imprint. Okay, good luck with that. Yeah. Thank you. Twenty fifteen. We’ll have you back. Yes, back to talk about stand out. Dahna all right, so we were in were in our second phase of closing this gap between where we stand and where we’d like to be. Where does all the content that you can create? Some of what you just mentioned talking about standout where’s that all fit in the podcast thing. You could do the blogging you, khun do videos speaking where’s all this content for them. Oh, my goodness. It’s such a good segue way tony into part three, which is living your brand. And i have to admit that was purely coincidental. I wasn’t really sure where content fit in, but i know it’s important. You’re smooth just like like slide right in their eye just ruin the smoothness by saying it wasn’t well, so so in part three once were sort of, you know, moving to this last phase with we’ve determined how how we’re perceived now we’ve begun to think about how we would like to be perceived by others. But, you know, the truth is you can’t just snap your fingers and say, oh, well, you know, i want you to see me this way now doesn’t doesn’t really work that way. People’s perceptions linger, and you need to give them a good reason to change their perceptions of you otherwise, you know, they’re just goingto stay the same as they were there’s not there’s, not a motivating factor. So how do you give people a reason to change how they see you tow? Update it? Well, basically, what that comes down to, you know, under the rubric of what i call living your brand is that you want to do something to make them stop and take notice and say, wait a minute, i didn’t know she could do that. Oh, that’s so interesting. I had no idea that she was interested in that or she was knowledgeable about that. And that’s, where content creation actually is critically important because one of the real ironies of reinvention that i discovered in the course of interviewing these dozens and dozens of professionals who’ve reinvented themselves is that you might think you might hope and expect that the people who are closest to you would be the most supportive of your reinvention and sometimes that’s. True, but sometimes it’s actually the opposite, because if you meet a stranger, right, let’s, say, you’re in a chamber of commerce event and you meet someone you say, hey, you know, nice to meet you. I’m in marketing, they’re going to say, great nice to meet you if you, however, see an old friend and you say, guess what i’m going to do marketing now, they actually oftentimes feel entitled to say, really, what do you know about that, noah? Is that a good choice? I mean, you’ve been too spent twenty years doing fund-raising isn’t that a little unwise to give that up? And, you know, they think they’re being helpful, but they actually are holding you back in some ways, and so for the sake of both establishing credibility with new people, but also especially to win over your closest circle who you do, in fact need in order to successfully reinvent yourself, you need to show them beyond a shadow of a doubt that you really are passionate and you really are knowledgeable about this new thing. So how do we do it? There are so many ways now no cost ways that you can create content. Really he’s you want, of course, is starting to block. I think that’s actually one of the best ways to demonstrate your expertise. And it’s it’s way easier than ever because you don’t even have to start your own blawg linked in recently made a change where anybody not just their celebrity influencers, can do blogging on the linked in sight and that’s. Great! Because there’s a kind of built in audience there and your articles appear alongside your linked in profile. So when people are looking for you that’s automatic proof oh, how interesting. She’s done you no one hundred block posts about marketing. She must know something about marketing and they can try it out. Read your stuff. See if you make sense. That’s. Great. Um, podcasting is a big one in my new book stand out. Actually, i profile a guy named john corcoran who is a bay area attorney who has his own podcast. Siri’s and one of the ways that he’s used it. And maybe this is the way you do is well, tony is he has a very explicit mission with his podcasting. I mean, it serves multiple purposes. One is it’s a kind of professional development because he gets the interview interesting people and learn from them. But it’s also a form of networking because he interviews yes, that he would like to meet. And then as we were talking about earlier, he makes them a part of his network. And he’s been able to to really build up his own brand is a thought leader by having these guests on and getting to be part of their circle. And it’s it’s been tremendously powerful for him in his career to do this. And i should’ve profiled may exactly what was this guy? John corcoran. I know we’re gonna hook you up, but so if you if you’re going into a new field and you want to meet the leading lights quickly and build relationships with them, start a podcast siri’s and that is an excuse to talk to almost anyone you want because many people, if they’re if they’re particularly well known there, they just don’t have time to sit down and, you know, have a coffee with just anyone, especially if they don’t know you, but a lot of them, almost all of them. In fact, we’ll say yes, if you say, can i interview you? And having close to ten thousand listeners actually helps quite a bit, but even in the early, even, you know, the first five ten shows when i don’t know, maybe they were twenty five listeners. I don’t know. My mom and dad were two of them, you know? Yeah. I found that people were willing to sit in front of the mic. I told them that it would live forever. It’s always going to be on itunes and there’s. Other platform, you stitcher, etcetera. But itunes is especially four years ago was the the premier. So i said, you know, would live forever. You could link to it. And that was that was appealing to people on. And then as the show grew, you know, i got more and more high. Profile guests chef gordon has been on, and craig newmark, founder of craigslist and craigconnects, and see you, you’ve used ilsen crazy network would kill for that story. Clark has been on. Oh, my god, this next you’re gonna have paul wolfowitz. This is gonna be unbelievable. I’m only one one kevin bacon thing. I’m only one level away from know too. If paul was sitting here, that will be one. So i’m only two levels away from possible for men. It’s remarkable. Um okay, so we have we have more time together. Do you have some examples of people who lived there brand very, very well, you think? Or maybe even maybe some lessons we can learn from those who didn’t do it so well? I don’t know. Sure, sure. Well, you know, i’ll start out. I’ve got a million stories from, from reinventing you and on elsewhere, you know, readers, fortunately, have have started to write into me and tell about how they have applied the principles in their own lives, which is really nice that’s good like, but one of the people that i profiled, who i think might be particularly relevant to your audience is there’s. A guy that i that i write about named craig della penna and craig actually had really his dream job. He was a rail trail advocate and he derailed train rails to trails, exactly converting that attracts toe hiking trails and biking trails. Precisely. And so he was extremely knowledgeable. He literally was the world’s expert in thie conversion of new england rail trails. And, you know, he loved it. He was so passionate about it. I got paid to do it. But when his organization one day they told him, craig closing your field office and you can keep your job but on ly if you move to a different state and he had to think about it but he and his family did not want to move. And so it was kind of a sad day because, you know, it’s not like he’s, an accountant, and he could just do accounting for a different firm. He had a really specialized knowledge base and s o you know what do you what you do? Do you give up the dream? You just take some other job you’re not passionate about. It was he had a kind of rack his brain. But what i love about craig and why i profiled him is that he came up with a brilliant solution. He and his wife had always wanted to have a bed and breakfast. And so they bought a bed breakfast next to a rail trail. And he already knew all the whole rail trail community in new england. So he marketed to them and said, hey, come take your vacations here, you khun bicycle on the rail trail in the backyard, right in the backyard it’s called the the sugar maple trailside in in florence, massachusetts. It was an immediate hit, so he supported himself that way. And additionally, because this is a guy who’s always thinking he really did. A lot of people said, you know, craig, i wish we could do this. I wish i could have a house near a real trail. So he got his real estate license and he specialized in selling people houses next to rail trails. So he’s found a way to tow live his passion and make way more money than he ever did before. That’s. Terrific. That is a great story of that. What’s his name again. Craig della penna. Excellent. I’m going to go out for our for our last break. I know you’ll stay with us. I don’t have to ask. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz durney have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. You have on your block. One of one of the articles is the importance of leverage and how much you’re a number of people that are following you, whether it’s, twitter or youtube, etcetera views can be very, very helpful to you, but how do we get started? How do we avoid being discouraged on day one when the twitter follower county xero when our first youtube video has two views and those were both yours because you were making sure that it got uploaded correctly? How do we avoid being discouraged in the beginning? Yeah, it’s it’s an important question because it does always take time for things to gain traction. I mean, you know, there’s there’s, the one in the million situation where you put up a video and then, you know, tens of thousands of people are glomming onto it, but most of us can’t ever expect that i mean that’s it’s, just not normal. So, yeah, what do you do? Because we all start out in xero we all start out with, you know, three people or something like that. So here’s what i tell people your goals with building a platform and spreading your message. Should change over time. I mean, you know, later, on years down the road, you can say, oh, i’m going to post this and, you know, maybe ten thousand people listen to my radio show that’s fantastic, but in the early days you’re doing it for a slightly different reason, its toe perhaps toe work toward that, but early on, it’s, not about having tons of people listen to you, it’s about having the right people listen to you, and so if they’re not organically coming to you, you can you can bring your stuff to them and here’s what i mean by that. So, for instance, let’s say you have just started a business is a consultant for a small, not non-profits you start your blawg nobody’s reading it, but you come up with articles that you know are interesting and relevant to either your existing clients or your potential clients. So you write, you know, a few block posts, then you go to the chamber of commerce meeting you’re talking with somebody and you meet them and they would be a great client for you and see, yeah. So tell me about some of your business challenges. What? You know, what are you doing? What do you grappling with? They say, well, you know, we really have this problem with staff for attention, you know, everybody’s leaving we don’t know what to do and you can say, oh, that’s so interesting. I just wrote a blogger post about that last week. I’ll send it over to you. If that would be helpful, you get their card, you send it over and they look at it and see oh, this is brilliant. This is just what we need. And so then the next week, you follow-up hey just wanted to see if you like the article, you know? What did you think and that’s the opportunity to start the conversation where they say, oh, you know, tony, this was so useful. Do you consult in this area? And you know you can say well, why, yes, as a matter of fact, i d’oh so it’s it’s a lead generation tool that’s what it can be in the beginning, which is justice helpful in some ways may be more helpful then having ten thousand people know what your name is. And as you move on a test i found i get asked about whether i do things that i don’t do, and i think it’s pretty clear on my my sight, what i do, but still i get i still get contacts. Can you do this and you become sort of you become a good referral source? Yes to say no, i don’t thanks for your message, i don’t do it, but here’s one or two people have been on my show or who i know in the community that do this people start to see you as even more than you are. Yes, exactly, exactly there’s a principle in psychology known as the halo effect, and basically what this means is that if if i know that you’re good at something let’s, say you’re an expert in non-profit fund-raising i’m going to assume that you are really qualified at, you know, organisational development or finance consulting or marketing consulting, and i’ll just, you know, well, tony’s good, i’ll just ask him about everything and that’s actually a pretty great position to be in because, you know, i mean, of course we want to treat it ethically. You don’t want to say yes to something, you know nothing about you. But if you are looking to move into new areas, that could be really helpful because you’re given these opportunities on a platter and if it’s something that you you know, really aren’t interested in don’t know a lot about it can enable you to be teo really become a kind of powerful connector in your community because you have the ability to give people referrals to match, make and to make yourself indispensable resource. And then you’re helping other people too that’s, right? There’s just a joy that comes from putting two people together who potentially can can be of help to each other and withdrawing yourself. But knowing that you made you made the connection, yeah, feeling that halo effect, you know now in in painting on ly saints have halos? Yes, there’s now there’s a different screen. The halo in the nimbus the nimbus is that little sort of fog around somebody’s head, but the halo is that round circle it’s your i don’t actually, i said st too, it is for him is for sight, for silos, for halos, but i don’t know which i’m not sure whether the saints get the nimbus or the halo. The halo effect is still pretty cool. I wouldn’t call the nimbus effect is not too many people know nimbus that sounds like a cloud, you know, cloud type the nimbus serious or something, so don’t don’t change that stick with halo effect, all right? But i don’t know if it’s a sainthood or not after, okay, if anybody knows whether it’s, the who gets who gets the who gets the halo is that the saints or the saints get the nimbus we get so still another couple minutes together. What another example of somebody who’s living their brand? Very well, yeah, story. Well, you know, one of the ones that that i really think is is resonant from reinventing you. Tony is about a woman named debra shaw, and i like her story because e get a lot of blowback sometimes from people who, you know, they liked the concept, they say, oh, this is great story. I want to reinvent myself, but you know what? I can’t do it because i’m over fifty and they say, you know, reinventions for young people and i really want to push back and say no that’s actually not true people can reinvent themselves at any age. Deborah was over fifty when she reinvented herself, and i think her story is really a fantastic one. She spent many years as a human resource is executive in corporate america, you know, did did a great job, you know, had a fulfilling career, but at a certain point, she said, you know what? That’s it i don’t want to do this anymore, but i also don’t want to retired a pinehurst gogol thing, and so she was looking around, you know, really trying to think about what interested in her and a friend, just by chance, dragged her to a political fundraiser. She saw a guy speak who’s going running for governor loved him thought this is perfect. I want to help this guy, so she starts volunteering and shevawn, you know, for anyone who’s volunteered in a political campaign. You walk in the door and they give you the scut work, you know, you say i want a volunteer. Oh, great, make make phone calls for eight hours and this was a talented woman. She she had a lot more skills in that, but without complaint she did it. She made the phone. Calls she knocked on the door, she did all of the basic stupid things they wanted her to dio and she did them well. And she did him so well in made them take notice. And they said, we who? Who is this woman? What’s what’s her deal. And she never done politics professionally before. But within within a matter of months they hired her as a staffer. She became a regional field organizer and and ran a region of this gubernatorial campaign. I did it for a year made so many contacts, she thought this was going to be, you know, fun lark, but it turned into a career because a guy who was running for state senate had met her and said, you’re great, i want you to run my campaign. She became ah political campaign manager and has run probably nearly a dozen races. She now is the head of a political non-profit in massachusetts, eso following her passion, she made it happen. It’s a great story to end with thank you very much, clark. You’ll find her adoree clark dot com on twitter she’s at tori clarke the book is reinventing you to find your brand. Imagine your future, dori. Thanks so, so much. Thanks for having me. What a real pleasure. Thank you. Next week, make your events part of your larger cultivation strategy for your potential donors. Susan gabriel from cause effective shares, her tips and an interview from ntcdinosaur profit technology conference on using technology to organize people around your mission. If you missed any part of today’s show, you find it on tony martignetti dot com. Remember generosity siri’s for those multi-channel retty five k runs and walks, generosity siri’s, dot com, our creative producers, claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules, this music it’s by scott stein of brooklyn. You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You didn’t think that shooting getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Get in. Nothing. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun, shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com, you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? 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Nonprofit Radio for December 6, 2013: Brandraise to Fundraise & Safeguard Your Donor Data

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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My Guests:

Sarah Durham: Brandraise to Fundraise

Sarah Durham and Tony at Fundraising Day 2013
Sarah Durham and Tony at Fundraising Day 2013

Sarah Durham is principal and founder of Big Duck, communications consultants for nonprofits. People need to know you before you can ask them for money. What is brandraising and how does it pave the road to fundraising? (Recorded at Fundraising Day in June)

 

 

 

Scott Koegler: Safeguard Your Donor Data

scottkoegler2009-150Now that you have donors, how do you best preserve and protect their information? Scott Koegler is our tech contributor and editor of Nonprofit Technology News.

 

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host feels so good to be back in the studio after our thanksgiving break. I hope you loved your thanksgiving and i hope you were with me two weeks ago. I’d be forced to endure ketoacidosis if i came to learn that you had missed empower your volunteers. Karen brewster is executive director of wreaths across america. They have grown their volunteer support enormously, and she explained how that was recorded at bebe khan twenty thirteen this past october and what’s their style. Maria simple returned she’s, the prospect finder and our prospect research contributor. We talked about the disk assessment tool to figure out whether your potential donors are dominant, influencing steady or cautious. Plus she had her sixty seconds style stop this week brandraise to fundraise. Sarah durham is principal and founder of big duck communications consultants for non-profits people need to know you before you can ask them for money. What is brandraise ing and how does it pave the road to fund-raising that was recorded at fund-raising day in june and safeguard your donordigital now. That you have donors, how do you best preserve and protect their information? Scott koegler is our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news between the guests tony’s take to create a culture of philanthropy throughout your non-profit it’s a panel discussion that i hosted were supported by rally bound peer-to-peer fund-raising for runs, walks and rides, and by t b r c cost recovery. Getting you money back from phone bill errors and asians here is brandraise to fundraise welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen, we’re in midtown manhattan in times square at the marriott marquis hotel, and my guest now is sarah durham. She is principal and founder of big duck, and her seminar topic is brandraise to fundraise, build your house before you throw a party. Sorry, europe. Welcome. Hey, thanks, tony. Thanks for having me. My pleasure. Tell me about the big duck agency. So i started big deck in nineteen ninety four and so were nineteen years old. We work exclusively with non-profits to help them communicate more effectively. I love the conciseness. Thank you. Thank you. What is brandraise ing brandraise thing is a model. We’ve developed over many, many years of working with non-profits to help wth, um, rebrand largely in order to be more effective at communicating with donors, clients and other key constituents, and it’s, a model that integrates, um, best practices from the for-profit world with some non-profit reality’s like, where should the board be involved in branding, or how does your vision mission of values integrate into the work? So we do recognize that there are lessons to be learned from the corporate side there definitely are, although i would say that many a non-profit i don’t think you can be too black and white about that. I think there are lots of great lessons to learn from the for-profit world, but what works in the for-profit world does not always work in the nonprofit world, and so, you know, that’s the challenge for sure, yeah, all right, how do we get started with identifying our brand and starting this process? Well, a lot of organizations usually back into thinking about their brand because there’s another challenge that has forced them to deal with it. So for instance, they want over how their website and their thinking before we overhaul. That web site we should really sort out, you know, the problems. We have their name or the challenge with our logo, and so they kind of end up, you know, sort of through the side door getting into branding. But we’re big advocates for rethinking your brand any time you go through a significant change after strategic planning. So strategic planning should come first. But then, if your strategic plan mandates a shift in communications, that’s a really good time to revisit the brands are now brand is much deeper than just logo and name and tagline, right? Absolutely. Help us understand how how what death is. Yeah. It’s. A great question. And i would argue that your brand begins with a clear strategy that everybody in the organization is aligned with what’s. The big idea you want to communicate? We call that positioning there’s a strategic plan it’s for grows right out of your strategic plan. And then also, what is the personality of the organization? What? How does it, what tone and style does it want to use to communicate? For instance, an organization like pita has a very different communications personality than the cia. Right on. Dh that personality can influence not only communications but programs themselves. Okay, the other piece i would say about a brand is that it’s not just what the organization produces it’s also, how you’re perceived externally and your reputations so there’s a very fluid wall between what happens inside and what happens outside. But how do we find out this, how we’re perceived outside, you really have to do some research, and sometimes that research is done in a very on the flaw, i’ve seen organizations to great kind of on the fly, a qualitative research, they just talked to their clients, talk to their donors really kind of have a feeling for how they’re perceived other organizations it’s done through market research, you know, focus groups, surveys that kind of stuff, okay, so it doesn’t have to be a formal process now with a lot of money and expensive, not at all and that’s. One of the reasons i wrote the book brandraise ing is that none of this is rocket science. It’s it’s pretty easy to do the hardest part is knowing what to do and facilitating process, particularly with non-profits that have the right people involved and has buy-in at key junctures, so but doing research is pretty easy to do on your own. In fact, um, i talk about in the book, and i years ago recorded a podcast about how to do your own research. Okay, well, let’s, take one of the time i was going to give you a shout out for the book at the end. You go ahead. You mentioned it. So, what is the name of your book? The book is called brandraise ing and, uh, yeah, it came out in twenty ten. Published by josie bass. Okay, on dh your podcast. What was that called? The podcast is kind of. You can find it on itunes and other places, but we don’t keep it up to date is called the non-profit jungle. And we did want about doing your own research, which is about how you create a facilitators guide and facilitate informal focus groups. You can also just use two is like serving gizmo and surveymonkey to do some interesting research. If you have a list to send it to. Oh, interesting. I say a little more about that. How can we use these free tools? Well, so for instance, if you’ve got let’s, say you’ve got a donor database of a few thousand people who give to you in a mid level, and those people also get your e news, you might embed a survey and your e news and ask them just two or three questions that might help, you know, help get a sense of of what they think about your organization or why they’re connected, and and that often informs the branding work you do. But but oftentimes with branding it’s also really useful to go back to that group and to test so if, for instance, we’re re branding in non-profit we might create two different brochures and then informally walk into a programme space and grab a couple clients and say here’s two different brochures, does one speak to you more than the other? Or is there anything that you would find inappropriate or offensive about this content? You can do that with donors, tio, but, you know, that kind of field testing is often a great former research, okay, excellent and this’s all about having people well, having people understand and having a consistent message about what you do, how you do it what the outcomes are absolutely, i often remind people in the nonprofit sector that if you look at big for-profit companies like coca cola or target or starbucks, they have much more money and a much deeper bench of staff than most non-profits due to communicate, but yet you don’t see them change their color change the logo. I had a conversation with somebody here earlier about wanting to create an anniversary your logo, which i was advising her not to do because you want every type of communication you put out there to reinforce the essence of who your organization is, and i would rather that all ladder up to the core rather than being fractured. If tiffany every few years said, you know what, let’s make the box pink this year, they would lose the equity of that blue box, which is, you know, a court of their brand, but we do that all the time in the nonprofit world. It’s a bad habit it is okay, so what is the effect of how would you define an effective brand and effective brand is one where the people internally feel connected to it representative of it and ambassadors of it where everybody in the organization, whether their staff, person aboard person, maybe even a volunteer, could speak in some way about the work and its value, and that it’s perceived externally by its core audiences is valuable to so it’s, both internal and external, and i actually think it has a lot to do with the culture and the values of the organization being, you know, authentic and alive and and the visual identity or the messaging is really just an expression of that, and i could see how this would certainly helped fund-raising you can articulate it better than i can. So, yeah, let’s, just make that connection well, it does. It does have a lot of impact on fund-raising and one of the one of the most significant impacts we’re seeing more most recently is around social media and the idea that if you’re going to push out a fund-raising message, we’re going to do a multi channel campaign, which more and more organizations they’re doing. Those people are not just going to get your email or your direct mail, but they’re going to visit your website. They’re going to be on facebook, they’re going to go to twitter. And we want all of those messages to really ladder up and reinforce the the essence of what the organization’s about what the campaign is about. So, so that’s. A lot of what i’m talking about here. It fund-raising day talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth? Seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our culture and consultant services a guaranteed to lead toe. Right, groat. For your business, call us at nine one seven eight three, three, four, eight, six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com oppcoll are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow no more it’s time for the truth. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower. We’ll discuss what you’re born you society, politics, business and family it’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp, your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s. Ivory tower radio dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com by the way, for those around the video, the background just shook there’s, not an earthquake in times square. Somebody on the other side, i’m sure got very exuberant about whatever, whatever any, whatever their business is on the other side, and i was shaking, so no earthquake in times square dahna this is, i guess, another way of saying this is all effective communications absolute, and it needs to be resident throughout the organization you mentioned, even even down to the level of volunteers, and you’re not talking about key volunteers, but but occasional volunteer no, i mean, i think if an organization uses volunteers and they recruit them effectively, and those volunteers have a great experience, the first thing they do is go on and tell their friends about it. So they become brand ambassadors that’s not to say we should train them on the brand, per se, but it is that we should make sure they haven’t experienced that is really aware of that and and use that to our advantage. I used in my workshop this morning an example from an organization called american jewish world service that has a program for rabbinical students and when you look at how they communicate this programme on their website, they actually tell you that if you go on this program, you’re goingto be asked when you come back to do some fund-raising on behalf of it and on the program, you’re getting sort of trained to do that work, and then when you come back, they give you the tools to do that work. So that’s a great example of an organisation using a programs audience and kind of turning them into a brand new master. You have a very vivid example before of pita versus american humane society and different messaging. How does an organization find its niche within all the organizations that are doing work within that same mission? Right? Well, again, that starts with research, and one of the things that i think is very important to do is to do a competitive landscape scans so you have to know who else is out there. George in jail on twenty martignetti non-profit radio? Yes, first we’re competitive. Landscape scan. Yeah. What are we doing? What with what we’re doing is we’re identifying our peers are partners people? I’m with you too, in fact, in fact. Way every year we do like a jargon jargon article on our block, and we have words to avoid for each year, but so, you know, so for instance, if you’re in the animal rights space, who else is in that space? What are their websites? How do they communicate? What? What are the key messages they’re using? What are the colors they’re using? What? How are they describing how their unique and i think it’s really important to always be monitoring that? Always be aware of how other organizations in your space we’re communicating that’s not to say that if they use blue, you’re going to use pink or that it’s, that kind of direct. But it is to say that it’s important to remember that people on the outside might be looking at those things a donor who wants to support animal rights might look a lots of different animal rights organizations, websites, and you need to be clear how you stand out in that space. It also again goes back to strategic planning, right cause hopefully in the strategic planning process, you’ve also had a conversation about what really makes our organization unique. And what should we? Be focusing on programmatically. Is this something that a small and midsize shop could do on their own? Absolutely. You don’t feel that there’s a need for expertise to do these kinds of competitive landscape analysis. There are other things. I mean, the difference between the smaller guys and the bigger guys comes down basically to two things. The bigger guys can afford to hire experts who take him through a process. And that’s certainly is nice. But what the small guys have that the big guy’s lack is agility. And i’ve seen some smaller organizations with staff people or with volunteers go through some really exciting, you know, strategic planning and branding processes on their own. Sometimes it takes longer and there’s more learning that has to happen on the way. Really needs a champion. It needs somebody who’s, you know, able to kind of take the work, run with it, make it their own and keep it alive. But it could be done really well. Okay. Could that person be the executive director? Absolutely. Is that you? In fact, i was i was in florida a couple of years ago, and i was giving a workshop and i met a woman who had was an executive director, one man band, no staff, just her and she she had been able to recruit volunteers, developed an incredible visual identity and messaging platform for organization she’s producing all this stuff to promote it. It was great what she was doing looked better than what a lot of large organizations i see do, and it was really about her vision. It was that she understood what effective communication should be, and she wasn’t letting herself off the hook by saying, i’m just one person she garnered these resource is she needs to make it happen. It was amazing. We’re talking about personality, right? I mean, isn’t that just another way of encapsulating everything we’re talking about? Definitely found she found the personality and was expressing her, and she knew howto she knew how to enforce it. And i mean, there are organizations that really get that executive directors who really get that who appreciate the value of great creative on dh then i think one of the reasons it doesn’t happen most often is that there are a lot of organizations where the programmatic work is so important as it’s founded. And everybody’s just putting every every effort that they have into getting those program’s up and running that the name the logo, the tagline, how we talk about the work, etcetera becomes an afterthought and and oftentimes it’s on ly five years, ten years, twenty five years in that the organization starts to say, wait, these things are actually holding us back. We need teo, you know, re prioritize you mentioned something that i want to explore a little more than enforcement. We’ve been through this process. Now we’ve found our niche and where expressing it, how do we keep it in fourth? Yeah, i mean, the old model is brand policing so that’s appointing a person who really, you know is somewhat of a bully about keeping things consistence and on track the person who would write style guide, for instance, it might be it might be bigger, but these days i what i really prefer and what i would really encourage organizations to do because i think it’s much more relevant is to cultivate everybody to be a brand ambassador, right? I mean, if if a staff person, any staff person can’t go to the gala or to a block party or to whatever is going on and talk effectively about the organization that’s a problem, right? So everybody needs to be able to be an ambassador for the organization in whatever way they can. And in order to make that work, it has to be very communications have to be very, very simple, and they have to be very accessible to everybody on staff. So you mentioned a style guide style. Guides are getting more and more common in the nonprofit sector. A stock historically has been a rule book for how to use the visual identity. I actually prefer brand guide, which talks more about the communications strategy for the organization and the messaging like here’s. How you abbreviate our name. Don’t use the acronym, you know to go back to juergen instead of in the workshop i gave this morning, there was one woman whose organization goes by a i x y abila long acronym. And when she unpacks that its association you know exactly what they do with the name so it’s. A cumbersome name. But i’d rather she call it the association if she has two short handed at least there’s a clue. Who they are okay? And this trickles down to i think you’ve made you’ve made the point already everybody in the organization doesn’t your function, maybe very ministerial down to maintenance, perhaps, but you still you need to be speaking with that same organizational voice, absolutely. And if the maintenance person is on facebook and might be posting something about an event that’s going on that they were involved in helping, then you want them to feel empowered to beyond message what else? What did i not ask you that you’d like to share with small and midsize shops about about this process grand raising how it helps supports fund-raising well, i would say, you know, one one one theme we’ve touched on, but i wanted to say again is don’t give up hope just because you’re small and you can’t afford to hire an agency or whatever, that doesn’t mean you can’t do a great job. When i wrote my book, i was trying very hard to write it from a point of view of could somebody who doesn’t do this stuff every day take this and use it, and i’m hearing back from people that they can, but i’m also seeing more and more examples of organizations just really coming up with fresh, creative ways to do it. We built this scorecard that we have on our website where you can go in and sort of answer a series of questions, and it reflects back to you how your organization is doing managing its communications on one of the interesting findings we we have uncovered from that is that this small guys do it, justus well, as the big guys, that that the the having staff people or money for communications does not necessarily make you a better communicator. Excellent website is picked up dot com it’s, big duck. Nice dot com okay, don’t you ignore what i said? First big duck and dot com sarah door. Um, you want to leave one last one last tip. Come to fund-raising days. Great show. I want to see you all here next year. You’ll be back. I’ll be back. I love it here. Yeah. Sarah durham is thanks durney principle. My pleasure. Thank you very much. Principal and founder of big duck leary in n y c her book is brandraise ing and i want to thank you very much for joining me, sara and listeners viewers thank you for joining my coverage of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen marriott marquis hotel. Thanks very much. Thanks. Yes, my thanks to everyone at fund-raising day and sarah durham. To bring this show, we need some help. And i want you to know about the two companies that are helping us bradrick rally bound is a sponsor. They make simple, reliable peer-to-peer fund-raising software. This is software for runs, walks and rides it’s friends asking friends to give to your cause. You get a discount as a non pas provoc radio listener. Get that claim that discount you can go to rally bound dot com or just call them up on talk to joe mcgee and he will answer your questions and help you build your campaign. And, of course, explain how rally bound khun do that for you. They’re at rally bound dot com or triple eight seven six seven nine zero seven six and we are also supported by t b r c cost recovery yourselfer benowitz runs t brc. He will go over your past phone bills looking for errors when he finds them, which he does ninety. Percent of the time phone cos it turns out, are not so good about billing correctly. Then he picks up the phone when he finds these errors and he fights the phone company to get you money back. These are not only errors in billing, but also services that you didn’t order or you’re getting the wrong pricing, not what, not what you were supposed to be charged for, a service and also he can fight well above market pricing when he finds that, um, i had mentioned a couple weeks ago that recently he saved a non-profit almost twelve thousand dollars after finding errors in their phone bill that went back three years and you only pay ti brc if they actually get money back from the phone company, they can also save you money looking far word, because if you’ve, um, if there have been mistakes in the past, then there’s savings to be accrued going ahead as well. Trc cost recovery yussef rabinowitz i’ve known him for almost ten years. He’s at tbe rc dot com or two. One, two six double four nine. Triple xero ask for yosef twenty steak too. I hosted a panel discussion. For the new york ilsen chapter of a f p about two months ago or so that’s, the association of fund-raising professionals, the discussion was about creating a culture of philanthropy throughout your non-profit very similar to what sarah duram was talking about in having everyone be a brand ambassador from the receptionist to your ceo. There were three very smart people with me. They were terry, billy, matt bregman and brian saber. It was informative conversation, and i love the topic because it does come up a lot. How do you encourage everyone in your non-profit two treat the people they come in contact with as potential donors. It was informative, and we had some fun as well. There’s a link to the video on my block at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, the sixth of december forty seventh show of the year. Scott koegler is with me, you know him he’s, our monthly tech contributor. He’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find it n p tech news. Dot com and on twitter he’s at scott koegler. Scott, how are you? I’m doing well, tony, how you terrific lee. Thank you very much. You have a good thanksgiving. I did way too much turkey. But, you know that’s to be expected. Alright, good. You had fun. He did. We’re talking about safeguarding your donordigital. What are the, uh what of the potential risks here if donordigital is compromised? Well, there’s a lot of risks. You actually tony and what’s probably the biggest one is that not just the the data is stolen, but the information about your donors is compromised and that’s something that has made a whole lot of headlines recently well, over the last few years actually, um about, you know, different different companies having having their data breached, having there credit card information stolen and now people losing, losing the privacy of the credit information identity theft by another word. So there are implications that are certainly public relations you don’t want to be, you know, it may not be a headline if you’re a smaller midsize shop, but you can have a public relations problem among your donors and volunteers without it being in the headlines. There’s legal implications and you couldn’t even have, like some financial problems mean if people if it comes to the point of people suing you? Are you having to pay for damages? Definitely. Definitely. You know that i moved to south carolina recently, and last year i think that was earlier this year. Actually, the the the state governments website was breached. And supposedly all of the information that that anyone who has filed tax returns in the state oh, my goodness is stolen. So, you know, i mean that’s bad enough. I haven’t actually heard of anyone who was, you know, was affected by having their identities going. But what happened was that the state, aside from the, you know, the political and and other kinds of just general discussion about how things were handled badly, they had to offer a free subscription service to an identity theft, monitoring service to literally everyone in the state. Oh, my and a couple people. And so on, top of on top of having to rebuild their infrastructure, you know, tighten down their security, you know, they have that financial burden, you know, just added things. So yeah, financial consequences definitely did this stuff the car during the five days when governor mark sanford was off with his girlfriend in in argentina is that when that happened, it could have i don’t know, i you know, it could have been an argentinean internet connection get part of the story his reputation has since been rehabilitated because he was he was elected. Tio what the house of representatives, i think for for south carolina? I think so. Although i have to have two admit that i haven’t really followed much of the south carolinian political situation, even though i should have. Okay, well, you’re you’re new resident. Well, i am your break now. Good vote. So, i guess it’s good. What part of the problem with identity theft, though, is that people the bad people don’t use the data right away because they know that everybody who’s data was compromised is on the lookout, but they’ll wait. I mean, they’ll wait three for five years and use the data then when your date of birth and social security number haven’t changed and maybe even your address hasn’t changed. And and by then people are not on the lookout for the for the theft. Because it’s been so many years since it occurred. Exactly exactly. And then it’s also hard to track down. Where that breach came from because if it wass, for instance, a small provider, small company or a small non-profit that got that breached, uh, may not have been reported, right? Not everybody owns up to it, and actually not everybody actually knows that they’ve been breached. Right rights, it’s not in the hacker’s best interest to notify anyone that had that data. Yeah, yeah, now it gets it gets discovered by some audit. Or maybe the hackers will sloppy or something like that, but yeah, i’m sure there are lot of instances where organization don’t even know that it’s happened. All right, so if we’re going to protect our donordigital what we need to be thinking about first? Well, the first thing is pretty obvious stuff is that, you know, if you don’t need the information, don’t keep it, don’t collect it, don’t get it one of the pieces of information, of course, that non-profits do. On whose credit card information, uh, and some sites you know, amazon in particular, and pretty much any e commerce site collect credit card information and then there’s a convenience to the chopper. We’ll store that information? Yes. And, you know it’s convenient. And in a situation like amazon, people may go back there and by things you know, almost daily, and so in that case, it really is a convenience, so you don’t want to. I don’t want to keep entering my my credit card information every time i buy something for a non-profit that that frequency is probably significantly less than what amazon gets and we would certainly hope with it it’s more frequent, but reality is they’re probably talking about a few times a year at the most. Yes, so in those cases allow the credit card information to the energy. Be sure that it’s over a secure line and that’s here’s a jug and peace for https that’s uh uh that’s the secure website connections that links the website that someone beat feeling to the with the back end server some reason, scott, i know that http is hypertext transfer protocol, right? And then i believe that as few yeses for secure okay, sorry, sorry. Nobody cares about nobody cares. Um, so and that part right there just means that someone monitoring are tapping into the line isn’t just catching the data while it’s streaming by them on dh collecting it that way. That’s the first line of security, but the second, you know, use the information, make the transaction, get the get the donation into the bank account, and then just don’t record the critical information, right? Just by doing that i could probably solve. I’m going to say at least fifty percent of the of the problems that a data breach can cause for constituents for donors. There’s other information that would fall into those to that category, i’m thinking, like date of birth, social security number, even even address? Yeah, address an email. I mean, you don’t want those to be compromised. Yeah, here’s an interesting piece of the security information. Did you know if you have a person’s first name your date of birth and their zip code, you can find out through there first name, date of birth and zip code that’s enough to identify? Yeah, yeah, that makes sense way, wouldn’t you? Yeah, when you say it, it makes sense, but somebody wouldn’t think that those if you’re not, if you’re not in a security role, you wouldn’t realize that those three things can be really damaging and you could find everything about those so i mean, date of birth, i mean, probably non-profits don’t have to save date of birth, right? Date of birth, you know? Krauz they probably do need address information in order to send maybe a ten, ninety nine, you know, donation form at the end of the right, right? But certainly so security number is not necessary. I don’t. I don’t think that’s required for a ten, ninety nine. Well, non-profits aren’t sending ten, ninety nine’s. They’re just sending the just sending acknowledgement letters. Okay, so, yeah, ten. Ninety nine’s that’s for contractors. So so wouldn’t you wouldn’t need it. You wouldn’t need you would not need it for donors. All right, but so there’s there’s information that we should save, but we should look scrupulously at what we are actually preserving is the point. Okay, what we need and don’t even ask for what you don’t need and those things that you do need, you know, on a on a short term basis, like credit card information. Just really okay. Okay. There’s still information that you need and there’s information that you want to keep. You want to keep the name, you know, the donation history, maybe. Their activities, you may want to keep their their their address, and they want it. Particularly if you do send out snail mail. Kind of, uh, information. You know, newsletters do still go by on paper. And so there is information that you want and here’s one of the ways that south carolina system was breached. No, if they could have avoided the entire disaster with the effects of the disaster. Maybe not for a public relations standpoint, but from the effect on its citizens. By encrypting the data they have. So wait, he talked about, you know, using a secure internet connection tps. And that applies and encryption to all of the information going across the internet wire. But once it reaches the program of stories that data, um, you know, that data is stored in a database and the database is usually, um, pretty transparent. In other words, you can open the database. Look at the information and it’s you know, it’s in english. It’s in what’s, commonly called clear text. So it’s, you know, you can look at it with a human being can read it and understand it. And i know it’s easy and it’s the way that things are stored most of time. What south carolina did not do on. Actually, a couple of others didn’t dio notable ones are adobe and link them okay. Not small names of people that you would think would know better. Um, they did not encrypt the contents of their database. So what that means is if the data is not encrypted, hacker gets in, they download the database and they can use it’s all visible in clear text. Okay. Okay. All right. So so the data that we do store, we should consider encryption, right? Absolutely. Absolutely their encryptions pretty easy. Most databases have it as a non option. You could just, you know, take a box and bingo. It’s all encrypted. So we have to also consider where this data is safe, right? It’s lots of different places and including portables buy-in night. Um, sure, cellphones get lost, laptops gets stolen, all those kind of things happen. I don’t know that. There’s an additional answer there. I mean, certainly you can password protect cell phones and laptops for typically people don’t do that. Yeah, well, we’re going to get to policies that they should be doing so. But they’re also the data is on servers. In your and hopefully your server closet is secure. I’ve seen a lot of servers that including businesses, small businesses where, you know it’s in a like a ah whole janitorial closet or something up on a shelf, not secure it all, but data can also be in the cloud. Uh, exactly that it could be in the cloud and it’s kind of a counterintuitive. I’ll just give you my personal take on this. I think on i believe that the data that’s stored in a no properly created cloud environment it was much more secure than something that’s residing in your server. Have your office. Okay, why don’t i tell you why? First of all, servers in officers are managed fly, but people in those officers typically and except for, you know, very large non-profits most of those people are not, um, it’s, not a full time job to manage the security of the service right there doing other things. They have a full time job for a part time job and a piece of a part of a tiny portion of that time maybe to make a backup of the server, on the other hand, cloud based systems it is their business, it’s, the only business, and not only are the, uh, typically bound by terms and conditions of the contract with that you have with them to protect your data, if if they’re breached, uh, they stand to lose their entire business just from the bad p r so it’s in their best interest to keep their, you know their customers, clients, data secure, you know, they those kinds of environments, too, support the https secure connections they do typically encrypt the data. I’m not saying you don’t need to check those things, but i do believe that it’s, no overall, safer environment, leave it in the hands of the professionals. Okay, way. Have to go away for a couple minutes when we come back. Scott. Now, keep talking about safeguarding your donordigital. We’ll get into some of the policies that you should have. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, a gift. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. All right, scott, we know what data we’ve got and what we need to save and not save way we know where the data is stored, what kind of policies should we have in place? Yeah, well, as you mentioned, it’s it’s a good thing to have a policy that says, you know, you need to secure your devices with a password so that every time you go to use that needs to be logged in, um, in my experience that that may work in corporate environments where the shop has the ability to actually manage the devices that were used by their weather employees, but in an environment that says generally as loose as a non-profit think becomes pretty difficult to enforce. For one thing, you know, you’re your volunteers may all that they have bones that are being managed by their brother employers. So you get a conflict in that in that area, i’m still it’s a good thing to do. Certainly you want to be sure that the staff isn’t writing things down on pieces of paper, so if they are recording things, they are being recorded in a digital format in a secure format so that whatever protections are being enforced in the inn that digital connection are being used, they may not be one hundred percent, but it’s better than nothing for sure. We should also have policy around who has access to different pieces of data, absolutely, and that has to do with the, uh, the applications that you use in historian information some of the more simplistic application, for instance, locally, you know, homemade databases, spreadsheets, things like that have very limited security options, right? Most of the most of the non-profit applications that are available commercially have what they call multi level rules so you can define a roll of manager out of the data entry clerk, you know, hosting volunteer and different kinds of rules like that, and each one of those can have different levels of access to information. So somebody who’s carrying around a tablet that in the event registering people for the event, they only have access to the data entry function for that piece, it certainly would not have access two historical e-giving and other other information has already been recorded when i go teo cem, clients on i’m using their database there’s data that i can’t see? Social security number. For instance, i i can see that it’s preserved, but all i see in that field is a bunch of stars. Date of birth, i think is another one. Or maybe i see the year, but not the day in the month. Something like that. So there there are there are data, ways of preserving and i log on to that database so it knows who i am and what level of access i have. Exactly. When i was, that reminds me of when i was in the air force, i had i had top secret clearance. And then beyond top secret, there was something called psyop. Yes, i which was it was his top secret. T s psyop was the single integrated operating plan. And then, yes, i was for extra sensitive information. So you could have t s and then you could go beyond that, and then beyond that. And then there’s, you know, obviously there people bled levels of security clearance beyond me. But i had top secret c i a p ece anyway, so so just exactly as you told me that tony means you have to kill me right now. There. Are other reasons i need to kill you. Is that another doing? Just revealed. Okay. All right. So the software can help us. All right. So this is part of our policies is who who has access to what? On a need to know basis, right? That’s, basically, what do you need to know? To do your job? Exactly. And there’s one two things i’ll bring up here one is that, you know most well, most a lot of instances of breach come from, uh, not getting rid of logging access. That is not necessary any longer. So someone leaves the organization. The very first thing that should be done is that log in should be deactivated. Deleted whatever. Yes, at the very least. Password changed. But there are lots of lots of instances where that wasn’t done immediately. And the data, you know, goes away and let’s face it. You know, it’s it’s, not just a friendly departure. That person is more likely to take action immediately than they are, you know, a month down the road. So quick action is is really, uh, you know the right thing to do. Let’s, talk a little about insurance. There’s there’s. Cyber insurance there is dahna and, you know, i haven’t really looked at the prices for those, but i’m sure that there is based on the amount of information, the value of your database, all those kind of things, but i would say that most of the large insurance company i’m looking at the hartford and shove, for instance, they offer what’s called a data breach insurance, which is exactly what we’re talking about here, its protection against loss, its protection against lawsuits from some problems occurring based on the loss, liability, all those nothing i would say it’s definitely something we’re looking into. And of course, you know, hindsight will always tell you that you should have done it. Yeah, but, you know, pryce will make that determination for you, okay? We’re not holding you to the standards of of an insurance broker, so you don’t need to know the price, but but important for people to know that it exists and and as you suggested, you know, if you have a bad person, maybe they left on bad terms or maybe they’re still working for you, and they just have some bad intentions. No policy is going to prevent them from getting what they want if they’re if they’re industrious enough like and an interesting statistic. Seventy five percent of a raw data theft and i’m talking well, i guess it could be called hacking, but they left. This use of data happens internally of that seventy five percent, fifty percent of it is from physical, just physically copying the data onto a thumb drive. Or, you know, some other cd or something like that. So it really, you know, most of what’s gonna happen is really gonna happen within the organization and that’s for anything. And this heartening, unfortunately true. You’re a former ceo, right? Chief information officer, chief technology officer on the corporate side. Um what? What more do you want to impart? I haven’t asked you about, uh, you know, lock the doors. That’s, that’s probably the biggest and most difficult thing that we had to contend with was making sure that the facility is secure. Now, those when i was doing that, cloud computing was really not a big issue. So locking the doors, you know, for a cloud environment doesn’t really does it really work. That said, there are still, uh, there’s still paper records that your store in camp, almost any organization and locking the doors were locking the file cabinets or some other way, securing access against the paper records. Still it’s still the right thing to do, and we’ll we’ll avoid some of the day. The fact that we’re talking about yes, excellent. We’ve been talking about digitised data, but there’s still lots of paper records and just simple locks on a file cabinet on blocks on doors, andan that server door that you know that those hallway closet server that i see where it’s the maintenance you know, it’s it’s above the slop sink that’s crazy frank, right it is and have one one other issue that we talked about and that is what’s called social engineering and has nothing to do with data. Uh, it’s it’s really old fashioned and involved. Usually telephone, but it could be personal. Personal face-to-face okay, you know, we talked about the three pieces of information that will lead to someone really knowing who you are like that, uh, your first name, date of birth and your zip code. You may not say all those things to the same person at the same. Time, but, uh, social engineering involves people making phone calls into an organization, talking to different people and pulling different pieces of information from those different people and then assemble in those outside so they’re pretty easy to, you know, called secretary and they, you know, i’m trying to get the three owners birthday gift, you know, what? They were on dh, you know, by the way, you know, at another person calls in to another person in the organization and says, you know what? Town today with them? I mean, no, there you go right there. Three piece of information, yes. Wow. That’s okay, those air bad there’s a bad actors, but but if somebody want that they can, they can put it together over time. And andi, even if even a small organization, even if there aren’t that many people, if they can call they could do it over time, they can have a have ah, accomplice maybe helping. So one time it’s a man a couple weeks later, it’s a woman asking different things. Your office isn’t going to protect against that exactly. Then we’re not as people, we’re not wired to think, you know, in that. Kind of devious way to protect ourselves. Okay. All right. All the more reason for thinking about this thing about cyber insurance, i think. Exactly. Exactly. All right, we have just a couple of minutes left. Scott, i’m going to put you on the scott on the i’m going to put you on the scott. I’m going to put you on the spot for a holiday wine recommendation as part of your as your sixty second style stop. Whoa, what wine do you loving? In the month of december? A month of december, we actually we found one that we absolutely love. It’s it’s the two thousand ten it’s called immortal it’s zampa dollars. You might expect it’s just it’s, you know, luxurious it’s. Wonderful. And it’s. Got that typical in-kind of sweetness and smooth with a lot of food. Uh, that fifty bucks and i, you know, been enjoying that one. Okay. That’s a that’s, a red zinfandel or white red’s. Okay, two thousand ten immortals in scott koegler sixty second style. Stop, scott. Always a pleasure. Enjoy your holidays. Thank you very much. Good to talk to you. Thanks so much for your help, scott koegler on twitter. He’s at scott koegler konigstein are and he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which is that n p tech news. Dot com next week, the millennials study derek feldman will be with me. I’m pretty sure he’ll be in the studio. He’s, co author of that report also amy sample, ward she’s, our social media contributor and ceo of non-profit technology network and ten she returns next week. Remember our supporters rally bound dot com and tb rc dot com. I’m very grateful for their support. They’re good people. Please check them out. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is at the board, as our line producer shows. Social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point oh, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. This excellent music is by scott stein. Oh, i hope to be with me next week that’ll be friday, december thirteenth. The, uh i don’t know which friday of the year it is, but it’ll be at one to two eastern at talking alternative dot com. You didn’t think that shooting getting thinking. You’re listening to the talking alternative network duitz get in. E-giving cubine are you a female entrepreneur ready to break through? Join us at sexy body sassy sol, where women are empowered to ask one received what they truly want in love, life and business. Tune in thursday, said noon eastern time to learn timpson juicy secrets from inspiring women and men who, there to define their success, get inspired, stay motivated and defying your version of giant success with sexy body sake. Sold every thursday ad. 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