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Dorie Clark: Your Personal Brand
Think about going out on your own? Are you already? You should meet Dorie Clark. Employee? You still should meet her. She’s the author of “Reinventing You: Define Your Brand, Imagine Your Future” and she’s with me for the hour.
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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with booty news fever if it came to my attention that you had missed today’s, show your personal brand are you thinking about going out on your own? Are you out already? You should meet story clark she’s, the author of reinventing you define your brand imagine your future and she’s with me for the hour on tony’s take two. I’ve got time away this week. Did you get yours? We’re sponsored by generosity, siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks i’m really joyed to ah, welcome dori clark here to the studio. She’s, a marketing strategy consultant, professional speaker and frequent contributor to harvard business review and forbes, associated press and fortune, have dubbed her a branding expert. Her book is reinventing you define your brand, imagine your future and it’s being translated into russian, chinese, french, polish and tie out of time she consultant speaks for the ford foundation, yale university, mount sinai medical centre, google, the world bank, microsoft, morgan stanley and the national park service you’ll find her at dori clark dot com on twitter she’s at dori clark dorie, welcome to studio tony, thank you for having me, it’s. My pleasure. I’m glad you’re here alive in person and, uh for the full hour to real pleasure. Um, the personal brand. What what is the personal brand? Well, your personal brand is really a synonym for your reputation at a very basic level. The term personal brand came into popular use starting in nineteen ninety seven, when there was a well known cover story in fast company magazine by management guru named tom peters called the brand called you and so people began throwing around that term personal brand, but really what? It’s, what it’s talking about something it’s referring to has been happening for millennia, which is what is your reputation? What people think of you? And is it what you might wish them to? You have? Ah, very interesting journey that brought you here. You’ve done a lot of diverse things about different things in your background share it’s true it’s true writing, the book reinventing you really initially stemmed from my own personal experience because i’ve had to reinvent myself. Many times i after graduate school, i got a master’s degree in theology. Very young. Yes. You were very young student. Yeah, yeah. Harvard divinity school, right. It’s true. I went to college when i was fourteen. Graduated. One is eighteen, so i got the i got the master’s degree at twenty that’s. Remarkable. Yeah. You know, just kind of kind of what? You now in college. You were in college of fourteen. That’s, right? That is really something. And where was that? Where’d you go to college? They haven’t early entrance program at mary baldwin college in virginia. So i did that for two years, and then i transferred to smith, where i finished it up, but i was from a small town in north carolina. It was very boring, so i needed to do something. We’re in. We’re in north carolina. I grew up in pinehurst, which is famous for its golf resorts. I am going to pinehurst this afternoon. That’s. Really impressive. I own a home there. I’m not kidding you. Yeah, i didn’t know you’re from pine er’s. Yes, jane. What street did you grow up? My grip on linden road, if you know what. I don’t think that’s a pretty big road it iss my home is on thunderbird circle wow, darryl woods. Oh, my goodness. I’m going there this afternoon to see my bags. We came in studio c. Them there. I’m going this afternoon. Awesome! What? You can say hi to my mom. I’ll hook you up. It’ll be fan. You are not from that small a town. Pinehearst is very well known for golf. I don’t play golf. Do you play golf? No, that was my that was my teenage rebellion. You know, i could have smoked crack, but instead i said no. I am not going to play golf. That is how i’m going to rebel xero did smoke crack? No. Okay. That’s. Not the path you chose. No. I mean, the u s open was just there. You know, it was world. It was world renowned just just in june. That’s, right? Usopen, men’s and women’s was just there. Absolutely. What a remarkable coincidence that i did not know. I’m glad. Well, when you said north carolina always asked what town finer and your mom’s still in on linden boulevard? She has moved. She’s moved to southern pines. Now but she is vicinity? Yes, i might have dinner in southern pines. A chef warren’s. All right, well, we’ll make sure to connect you she’s fun. Holy cow. Alright, pinehurst, north carolina that’s, right. So the first person i met from there, but go ahead. So you were brilliant because you were doing very well in the pinehearst. The school’s? No, no doubt. Well, i had i had to flee pinehurst because it’s very small. And, you know, aside from the gulf is, you know, so so yeah, that sort of propelled me teo to move on and go to college early. But when i want to finish college, i got my first job. That i got was as a reporter, and i loved it thought it was great. But about a year into it, i get laid off because i had unfortunately chosen a bad time to get into journalism because the industry was starting to collapse. So i needed to do something different. I managed to get a job doing press on a political campaign on a gubernatorial race in massachusetts where i was living. And then my candidate lost. And so then i had my sights trained. On working on the next presidential election. This was two thousand for and so i did manage to get a job doing press on this presidential campaign. I became a spokesperson, and unfortunately, i can that it lost. So this presidential campaign bradrick arrack who’s worked for howard dean. Okay, yeah. So exciting. Campaign that was not successful. What was the what was the year? It was two thousand for two thousand four, i was behind. Okay, yeah. And so after that, i got a job. Like like many of your listeners in the nonprofit sector, i decided that i would metoo two major things that i wanted to do it either wanted to do communications at a large non-profit or i wanted to run my own small non-profit and so i ended up doing the latter. I get hired as the executive director of an organization called the massachusetts bicycle coalition, which was the statewide advocacy group for biking in massachusetts. We had thie robust budget of one hundred fifty thousand dollars a year. And from that, we managed teo squeak out about two point five staffers. And we ran a really tight bootstrapped operation which many of the people listening here can probably relate to know for sure that come for some one hundred fifty thousand dollars is what they’re aspiring to that’s, right, exactly. And and so then i did that for two years and then launched my own consulting practice, which have been doing for the past eight years, and so is part of that. I write books, i give talks, i do marketing consulting, and i also teach for a number of business schools, including duke’s, fuckwit school of business. Which brings me back to north carolina quite a bit interesting. Maybe we’ll hook up in north carolina sometime that’s, right way are here, both in new york, too, so it’s that is considerably easier, but we have a world of options, tony. We could do it here in north carolina, but i don’t play golf either, so we don’t have to worry about gulf. Uh, i don’t really care for it, and i don’t know, i watch it. My house is on one of the courses, but it’s a good thing. It’s, a quiet sport, it’s, very noninvasive sport, that’s, right? When now i think we should we should say that i’m gonna approach this with dori, sort of as if you’re for people who are on their own or maybe they’re in a non-profit, you know, and they’re and they’re thinking about going off on their own, as you did. But this our conversation certainly applies to people who are employees and intend to remain employees, right? I mean, they also have and should be fostering their personal brand absolutely it’s ah it’s increasingly essential. I mean, one of the things that i realized in the course of writing reinventing you is that, you know, perhaps for self evident reasons. If you are an entrepreneur, consultant, things like that, you need to have a strong personal brand because it’s, part of your marketing, you’ve gotto attract clients to you and things like that, but having a strong personal brand is equally important if you were inside an organization because really, fundamentally what it is is a form of career insurance. Too many people don’t think about it, they just, you know, do their job. They’re busy people, and they don’t really spend a lot of time thinking about what their reputation is and unfortunately, if you are not aware of it, i mean doesn’t mean that you have to be thinking about it twenty four seven but if you don’t think about it, sometimes it means that other people may be getting not the full picture and not the correct picture about who you are and what you’re capable of, and if their vision of you is stuck in the past, it means you’re probably missing out on opportunities because things that you might really want to do opportunities you might really want to have your not going to be on people’s radar screen for that. You, uh, you break the branding process into into three very nice phases, which we’re gonna have plenty of time to talk about before go out for a break. Why don’t you just introduce us to the two or three phases? Absolutely, tony, as i describe in reinventing you, there are three fundamental stages to personal branding that people need to go through the first is getting getting a sense of what your current brand is, because people think something about you, nobody is a blank slate and you can’t make good decisions about how you want to move your brand forward unless you know where you’re starting so that’s number one number two is formulating that proactive vision of how you do want to be perceived. What would you like people to say about you when you leave the room? And how do you create your own narrative so that other people can get it? And then third and finally it’s about living your brand because your brand is about a lot more than just what you say about yourself, it’s about everything you do it’s about how you live your life, and so we need to make sure that you are manifesting that in a consistent way and in an authentic way outstanding that’s great set up, we’ll go out for our first break, and when we come back door and i’m going to keep talking, we’re going toe go through the three stages of branding, so i know you’re going to stay with us don’t even have to ask you to. You didn’t think that shooting getting dink, dink, dink, dink, you’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get a drink. Nothing. Cubine this’s. The same way we’re hosting part of my french new york city, or guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back french is that common language? Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it comes desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them, shed this story. Join us, part of my french new york city. Every monday from one to two p, m. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I wish i could send live listen, love, but i can’t today, of course, like live love live listener love out to everybody who is listening, but i can’t give the states and cities, as i routinely do were pre recorded today, but you know who you are, whether you’re new to the show live or one of our regular live listeners live listener love out to you and, of course, those were sitting in the time shift podcast. Pleasantries, too, are over ninety five hundred listeners listening wherever you may be. Treadmill car, subway, airplane, wherever you are. Podcast pleasantries, okay, dorri um, yes, people perceive us that we have a brand, whether we know it or not, whether we like it or not. How do we find out what where we stand? Well, one of the first starting points tony is turning to other people, which i think you know, for some people, for most people, actually, they assume that they already know what their brand is. Oh, i’ve got that covered. Yeah, i know, but the truth is, most people don’t. We have blind spots. And so there are things that were really just not aware of. And so one simple exercise that i often suggest in the course of reinventing you is starting out with a very basic exercise go to about half a dozen people that, you know, you know, coworkers, friends, whoever and ask them if you only had three words to be able to describe me, what would they say? This is not a very taxing exercise. Someone can think of it in two minutes, but it’s incredibly illustrative because number one most people never ask that question. And number two, you are very rapidly, probably by the third, third or fourth person going to start to see patterns in what they say and the words that they use and that can be helpful because what this is doing is showing people what comes through the loudest we know too much about ourselves, that’s the problem, and so we can’t really tell what is most unique or what is most significant other people and so on asking a few people, you’re going to begin to see what really seems meaningful to other folks and can give you a sense of what? Your what your strengths are that you’re operating from if you’re fortunate enough to work with a neg zakat of coach, they will often do that for you, absolutely. But can we count on people being honest in those three words? If i’m asking face-to-face can i? Can i? Can i count on honest feedback? Great question you can count on mostly honest feedback, and that is actually good enough, so number one people are not gonna lie to you there. You know, if you’re a really gregarious person, they’re not going to say, oh, well, you’re so quiet, tony, or, you know, whatever, they’re going to mostly tell you the truth, i see mostly because your absolute right, they’re not going to say, oh, well, you are, you know, way too whatever, they’re probably going to pick the positive qualities and so the exercise that, you know, the discipline that we need to go through is you take these three qualities, which indeed are probably good positive qualities, and we need to go through them and ask, you know, just mentally ask ourselves. Is it possible that i am too much of these things? Is it possible that this strength is so strong, it actually is a weakness. And so, for instance, someone might say to you, oh, you are so visionary and of course, that’s a great thing, it’s a great thing to be visionary, but you need to ask yourself, could i be so visionary that it’s possible? I am not detail oriented enough. And if you look at it, if you look at the converse and are open to understanding that about yourself, that not necessarily a weakness, but it may be a weakness, then you can get the full picture of the information that you need. And you’re going to see some trends in just doing this with just five or six. Yeah, it was like, i mean and that’s enough. And you might want to sample different people in your lives, like people on the business side. People on the personal side. Yeah. It’s useful to get a cross section because we are, you know, i mean, for most of us were not completely different people, but but we do highlight different aspects of ourselves in our work-life versus our home life. Now, in one of the videos you have hungarian saying yes, i wanted to share that there’s there’s a woman. And actually, you know, interestingly tony it’s a day of coincidences. I am meeting this woman in person for the very first time today, right after this interview. We’re going to expose you to this quote that’s, right? Okay, yeah. We’re meeting for coffee in about ninety minutes. But she’s an angel investor from utah. Her name is judy robinette. She actually had a book about network and come out earlier this year, which is really interesting read but she we we met, you know, online and connected about three years ago. And as we were discussing the book that i was then in the process of writing, she said, oh, you know, this is so interesting. This reminds me of a hunger of famous hungarian quotation and of course, you know, i looked it up and, you know, i think we can find absolutely no evidence that it’s, a hungarian croatian, so we will nonetheless give her credit for it because it’s a great saying and and so what judy robinette says is if three people tell you you’re a horse by a saddle and what i love about that is that, you know, it really shows that there are things that can be so obvious to the rest of the world that we’re just not seeing about ourselves. And if one person tells you whatever, they could be deluded, they could have a weird perspective. But if everyone’s telling it to you, maybe you ought to listen. So what should we do with the with what we learned from from this exercise? Well, i think the first thing that we need to do is is to really hold it up and to say, okay, if this is the feedback i’m getting is this what i want to be getting is is this the message that i want to be sending to the universe? And if it is great perfect, you’re right where you should be. But if there are gaps, if if it’s not quite how you want to be seen, then you need to start asking the question. Well, what can i do to get people to see me? How, how i would like them to. Okay on dh that’ll lead to the second phase, but way have plenty of time, so we don’t have to rush that’s, right? Examples in there. Yeah. So, you know, just a quick point. I mean, i think for anyone who, if they want to make a shift, i mean, you know, the book reinventing you is really for intended for people who want to sometimes they want to do something, you know, really bold, like, change careers other times, it’s, that they may like what they’re doing, but but they want to just shifted a little bit. Maybe they want a slightly different position in their organization. Or maybe they want to take their job that they have now and emphasize certain parts and de emphasize others. And they need to get the buy-in of the organization to be able to do that. Even for, you know, sort of small reinventions like that. You may need to reposition yourself so that people get it. Oh, well, she’s, she’s really good with major gifts. So we ought to be giving her make more of that. That sort of thing or for the person who depart decides teo depart. What? What? I, uh, not so not so politely called wage slavery and and go off on your own then? Certainly all the more, because when you’re on your own, you are your work is your is reflected in your brand, and your life is reflected in your brand. Your brand reflects your right. I mean, it’s all zoomed in one. Yeah, exactly. I didn’t say that very articulately. I know you’ll say it better when we get teo you. When we get to the third phase, i know you’ll be much more articulate about that. But, um okay, um, so is anything else any other advice in this in this first phase about discovering what people think aboutyou what your reputation is? Well, i think i think it’s a pretty, pretty good quick overview s oh, yeah, way we could move on to phase. Teo, please. Like so, uh, this is this is what you’d like it to be. Yeah, go ahead. Absolutely. So so in in this next step, you begin to really create that vision of where you want to go. And some people already know they have a really clear sense, you know? Okay, i want i mean, i mean, finance and i want to move into marketing or whatever it is. And if you know that’s great for other people. It involves a little bit more excavation, and so in reinventing you, we talk about how to really home in on what you want to be doing and give suggestions, you know, whether it’s about finding finding ways to connect with people through informational interviews or creating your own kind of curriculum or reading list so that you can really get clear on that vision because one of the things that we see is that sometimes you can run into a challenge, because if you go out too soon and put out a thesis, i guess you could say, if you if you aren’t one hundred percent sure, but you say, yeah, i really want to do this, and then you change your mind you actually lose a little bit of political capital with people because they begin to see you. Is this person who’s crying wolf? Well, she told me she wanted to be a travel writer, and i introduced her to my friends who were travel writers, and now she doesn’t want to do that, and so it means they’re less likely to help you. So you have to be clear about what you’re messaging is at this. Stage that you can say, well, i’m exploring a number of options, and one of them is this, and i’d like to learn more, and that way people can calibrate accordingly how they’re going to help you. And in what way, right? She’s, considering something she’s been triggering travel writing, among other things, would you would you mind talking to her that’s, that’s, exactly right, another really important phase once you do get clear on where you want to go, and this is often times people ask me the question, where do most people fail in their reinventions? And i think this is the place is about creating a narrative, and i’ll tell you what i mean by that. Basically, most people, sadly, are not paying that close attention to you and your career arc they’re they’re kind of, you know, we’re overloaded. Yeah, we’re overloaded that, you know, they think, oh, tony that’s nice, you know? Yeah, he does blah, blah, blah. And it may be what you did like five years ago, but they just haven’t checked in to pay attention. Update their vision of you. And so, as a consequence, what we need to do is to create a really, you know, short, pithy, just a couple sentences explanation for people of what you know what we’ve done in the past, what we want to do and how it is that our past experience actually makes us really well qualified for this new thing, because otherwise they’re not going to make the connection. They’re not going to take the time to do it. They may not have the mental bandwidth they may say, oh, that’s, completely random you used to do non-profit fund-raising and now you want to be a travel writer? How does that possibly relate? Oh, he must be having a mid life crisis and, you know, meanwhile, you could have a really articulate explanation of how these things connect, but you need to give it to other people because if we asked them to invent it on their own, they’re not going to and it’s gonna be a lot less flattering than whatever you come up with. Can you give us a sample? Yeah, absolutely. So, i mean, in my case, i made a transition, which i think for a lot of people seemed random after i finished running mass bike. I started this. Marketing, consulting business and you might look at that and say, wait a minute, what? You know, what do you know about that? How do these things connect? They had no idea, but i needed to have a good explanation because otherwise no one would hire me. I needed to be ableto be convincing enough that i could build a client base and get business. And so even if you’re, you know, ableto created a short statement, i mean, in my case, it was something along the lines of, you know, i’ve in my career i’ve done a lot of media relations from being a journalist, too, working on a presidential campaign to running a non-profit and what all of those things have in common is it’s about finding creative ways to break through and get noticed in a crowded media environment. And so now, as a marketing strategy consultant, if you hire me, that’s what i can help you, d’oh, i can help your company or your non-profit get noticed and draw in the people that you need to support your cause, and so then they can look at it and see oh, actually, yeah, that that does make sense there is a common strand, whereas they might not have been able to piece that together themselves. Where does the will you recommend the informational interview? Are you are you calling on your friends and colleagues and your network to help you, teo find informational interviewing opportunities? Yeah. I mean, it’s really easier than ever, teo to do informational interviews. I mean, now that we have tools like linked in i mean, in the past, it was a little bit scattershot. Seo i’m really interested in this. Do you know anyone know? Do you know anyone know? You know, now, if you really want a job doing whatever if you want to be a travel writer, if you want to work at google, you khun see really easily in two seconds. Who? You know, that knows somebody there, and that makes it very efficient. But i think you know, we all no it’s sort of been, you know, drilled into our brains from college on word. Oh, yes. Do do informational interviews that’s really important? But i think there’s a few things that people miss, which is why i am dwell on it fairly extensively in reinventing you because there’s ways to do it right i think for a lot of people it’s, it’s a kind of, you know, like almost a military operation, they go in, they go out and that’s it. They think that having having this meeting and extracting information is the goal and yes, it it issue do you want to get interesting information that can help guide you on your career course, but really, if you’re doing it right, what an informational interview is is a prelude to relationship building, and most people don’t know how to keep the relationship alive beyond the thirty minute coffee and the rial secret is using that time strategically not just to get answers to the literal questions you have on the sheet of paper, but to learn enough about the person so that you have an excuse for a relationship. You find out about what sports team they like, and so then every two or three months when they’re sports team does well, you can send them an email and congratulate them, or you find out that they’re going to be taking a trip in a couple of months to asia, and so you give them travel. Tips before they go. And when they come back, you email them to follow-up and ask how it is. You know, whatever it is, but you you want to plant the seeds so that you can continue to stay in touch and have this person be a permanent part of your network, not a hidden run. We have partners. We have pinehurst you this i don’t even know if we find her. Ok, i know. Now now we’re going to be in touch for life. I have the local blogged i can forward you the local block from darryl woods. Oh, my goodness. Clolery e-giving giving a talk in pinehurst in october. Really? Where you can come where? There’s there’s, the famous ruth polly lecture siri’s at sandals community center in chicago. I know the college. I know the college well, yes, and s so i’m going to be part of it along with its an interesting line up. It is me. It is the just announced yesterday. It is morse dease who is apparently a civil rights pioneer. And paul wolfowitz so oh, my god. Yeah. It’s. Very interesting. Mix samuels. Community college gets gets quite a quite a panel nature. D’oh, he’s in a mr as as you are in. Well, he’s yeah. He’s an a lister in certainly different circles. Bigger. Just bigger circles. But you got your niche that’s, right? Of course. Um, cool. All right, well, to follow up on that, too. Yeah, i would rather i would rather do something like that. The information of you face-to-face if at all possible instead of over the phone, which is convenient, but i prefer to see people face to face. We have be your if it’s if it’s feasible. Is that your advice? Yeah. Absolutely. Say, no, i’m off the off the charts. That doesn’t make any sense. Yeah. No, no, you’re right. I mean, really the goal in addition, teo, as we said, in addition to getting the information, it’s, you want the person to remember you, you know, you you want a year later, you don’t want the person seo dori clark, who was that? You know, if you’re going to invest the time you, you want to turn it into something, and they’re far more likely to remember you if they’ve met you in person, if they know what you look like. If they have this sort of vivid memory, as opposed to just having a telephone conversation where just recedes into their memory immediately. Yeah, yeah, the ongoing relationship. Exactly. You. No way we can use the online networks for keeping in touch, but for setting, you know, for establishing a relationship, i just always prefers to. Face-to-face yeah, that’s, the way to do it, for sure, whenever possible. Okay, cool. Let me i’m gonna digress a bit because i wantto talk about a sponsor for the show, so i’m going to ask if you have ever done a run walk now you were with mr zits was bicycle coalition? Yes, so they ever do run walks way didn’t because everything everything involved biking, but but we, uh, we we do. We do support other means of locomotion as well. We give them the thumbs up. Ok, so the coalition supported walking a cz an alternative to baking that’s right way understand it in certain circumstances, one cannot always be on a bike, so in that case, if you can walk, go for it and our sponsor is generosity siri’s and they host multi charity five runs and walk fantastic so that a bunch of small charities get that can’t create an event on their own because they don’t have enough participants can come together ten or twelve form or charities, and they each have maybe twenty, twenty five maybe even fifty runners and walkers and together there’s hundreds and hundreds of people such a good idea, and it creates and it creates a cool event. I hosted one of theirs. Out in brooklyn last november and there were a couple hundred runners and it was the it was great fun event there’s, like a dozen charities or so one hundred thirty five thousand dollars was raised. It was a fun day was fundez so listen, as you, you have heard me talk about generosity, siri’s they have events coming up in new jersey, miami, atlanta, here in new york city, philadelphia and toronto, so, uh, i hope that if you think a run walk fits into your fund-raising plan that you’ll talk teo dave lynn he’s, the ceo of generosity siri’s he’s at seven, one eight five or six nine triple seven of course, i would prefer to talk to people you probably don’t want to drop by the office, but meeting him face-to-face call him first and then set up the face to face meeting aunt, of course, generosity siri’s dot com you’ll find them there too, and we are pre recording today as i mentioned as you are listening to today’s show i am on the beach at bethany beach inn in delaware, totally disconnected for the whole week. I’m offgrid there’s, no email, i’m not checking in. Four, square. I’m not taking texts, and i hope that sometime during this summer, you had or will have all those summers dwindling, thie opportunity to do the same. You’re in here, in a profession where you’re giving to others, and if you’re going to be successful at giving, you have to take sometimes, and that means take care of yourself, and that means take vacation and take time away. So back in spring, i urged you to plan some time, and i hope that you did. I really hope you got some time away. You come back refreshed, rejuvenated. If you want to be successful e-giving sometimes you do have to take for yourself, and i hope you did this summer and that’s tony’s take two for friday, twenty ninth of august, the thirty fourth show of the year do you take you take time off story? You go offgrid no, no, but i i should probably listen to you, tony, but no, actually i don’t i’m kind of ah ah work maniac, but but i’ll put an asterisk on it because for me, i feel like they’re phases in people’s professional lives, you know? And there are times when you really need to put the pedal to the metal when you feel like it’s, a unique opportunity for traction in your career, and if you sense that you have that moment, you really need to exploit that moment, and there are other opportunities for youto, you know, to rest up or to take a break, things like that. And so for me, my first book came out last year, two thousand thirteen, and really, since that moment, i’ve been going full steam ahead with speaking engagements, consulting things like that because the book is kind of a singular opportunity that that you know there’s there’s chats, there’s attention, it’s a moment when if you harness it properly, you can build up additional momentum that can help you coast a little bit more later because the snowball has been building and s o similarly, i’ve been working very hard this summer, finalising the text for my next book, which is coming out in two thousand fifteen. In the spring, it’s called stand out how to find your breakthrough idea and build a following around it. So i’m actually carting around right now in my briefcase, thie final edits, which i am going to be submitting in less than a week. So so that’s pretty exciting, and we’ll be working hard promoting that. But i do think that you need you need breaks eventually, you know? Some people have different theories that, you know, on different things that work for them. Some people, you know, the weekends need to always be sacrosanct and that’s the time that they take off other people, they say, well, you know, i need to always take, you know, at least a two week vacation in the summer and that’s my time to disconnect andi. You know, those air all good, plausible strategies for me of been going pretty hard the last couple of years, but, you know, one of my ambitions for myself once this next book is out had launched and promoted and to actually do something kind of kind of wild and crazy, i mean, i wanted teo one of the things i’m kicking around used to, you know, maybe live abroad for a year and just be, like, traveling and things like that. I sold my house earlier this year, so i now don’t you know, i’m renting now i don’t have things that are locking me down, so i’m actually laying the groundwork to be able to take a real chunk of time after after the book is launched to be able to have ah, time, you know, not necessarily a pure arrest, but a time of aa lot more lifestyle, recreation, i’m standing out is incredibly difficult in are very noisy environment. It is absolutely it’s ah it’s getting to be more and more of a challenge. There’s i mean, if you look even just blog’s there’s over one hundred fifty million blog’s out there, not to mention you know tweets and everything else in the world. So it is it’s very hard, increasingly, to stand out. But, you know, there’s there’s an upside and a downside to all this, right? Because the very reason for that is that it’s easier for than ever for people to get in the game. It used to be not that hard to stand out because there were gates and the gates were locked, and, you know, once once you were in the gates, you know, we had three tv stations, and so if you’re on tv, you’re famous now, you know, the upside is that you don’t have to wait for abc, your nbc to give you the green light. There are no barriers to enter, no barriers. You can make your home podcast, you can make your own tv show. You put it up on youtube, you know, whatever you want to do it’s out there, but the challenge is how do you then attract the audience for? And how do you get it noticed? And s o it’s it’s exciting because it actually is more egalitarian than it’s ever been. We all have a chance and that’s really what the book is about is how to seize that chance if you believe in what you’re doing. If you think it’s a message that people ought to hear, i want to help you get it hurt. Is that also published by harvard business review? No, the first one was the second one is going to be done by penguin by their portfolio imprint. Okay, good luck with that. Yeah. Thank you. Twenty fifteen. We’ll have you back. Yes, back to talk about stand out. Dahna all right, so we were in were in our second phase of closing this gap between where we stand and where we’d like to be. Where does all the content that you can create? Some of what you just mentioned talking about standout where’s that all fit in the podcast thing. You could do the blogging you, khun do videos speaking where’s all this content for them. Oh, my goodness. It’s such a good segue way tony into part three, which is living your brand. And i have to admit that was purely coincidental. I wasn’t really sure where content fit in, but i know it’s important. You’re smooth just like like slide right in their eye just ruin the smoothness by saying it wasn’t well, so so in part three once were sort of, you know, moving to this last phase with we’ve determined how how we’re perceived now we’ve begun to think about how we would like to be perceived by others. But, you know, the truth is you can’t just snap your fingers and say, oh, well, you know, i want you to see me this way now doesn’t doesn’t really work that way. People’s perceptions linger, and you need to give them a good reason to change their perceptions of you otherwise, you know, they’re just goingto stay the same as they were there’s not there’s, not a motivating factor. So how do you give people a reason to change how they see you tow? Update it? Well, basically, what that comes down to, you know, under the rubric of what i call living your brand is that you want to do something to make them stop and take notice and say, wait a minute, i didn’t know she could do that. Oh, that’s so interesting. I had no idea that she was interested in that or she was knowledgeable about that. And that’s, where content creation actually is critically important because one of the real ironies of reinvention that i discovered in the course of interviewing these dozens and dozens of professionals who’ve reinvented themselves is that you might think you might hope and expect that the people who are closest to you would be the most supportive of your reinvention and sometimes that’s. True, but sometimes it’s actually the opposite, because if you meet a stranger, right, let’s, say, you’re in a chamber of commerce event and you meet someone you say, hey, you know, nice to meet you. I’m in marketing, they’re going to say, great nice to meet you if you, however, see an old friend and you say, guess what i’m going to do marketing now, they actually oftentimes feel entitled to say, really, what do you know about that, noah? Is that a good choice? I mean, you’ve been too spent twenty years doing fund-raising isn’t that a little unwise to give that up? And, you know, they think they’re being helpful, but they actually are holding you back in some ways, and so for the sake of both establishing credibility with new people, but also especially to win over your closest circle who you do, in fact need in order to successfully reinvent yourself, you need to show them beyond a shadow of a doubt that you really are passionate and you really are knowledgeable about this new thing. So how do we do it? There are so many ways now no cost ways that you can create content. Really he’s you want, of course, is starting to block. I think that’s actually one of the best ways to demonstrate your expertise. And it’s it’s way easier than ever because you don’t even have to start your own blawg linked in recently made a change where anybody not just their celebrity influencers, can do blogging on the linked in sight and that’s. Great! Because there’s a kind of built in audience there and your articles appear alongside your linked in profile. So when people are looking for you that’s automatic proof oh, how interesting. She’s done you no one hundred block posts about marketing. She must know something about marketing and they can try it out. Read your stuff. See if you make sense. That’s. Great. Um, podcasting is a big one in my new book stand out. Actually, i profile a guy named john corcoran who is a bay area attorney who has his own podcast. Siri’s and one of the ways that he’s used it. And maybe this is the way you do is well, tony is he has a very explicit mission with his podcasting. I mean, it serves multiple purposes. One is it’s a kind of professional development because he gets the interview interesting people and learn from them. But it’s also a form of networking because he interviews yes, that he would like to meet. And then as we were talking about earlier, he makes them a part of his network. And he’s been able to to really build up his own brand is a thought leader by having these guests on and getting to be part of their circle. And it’s it’s been tremendously powerful for him in his career to do this. And i should’ve profiled may exactly what was this guy? John corcoran. I know we’re gonna hook you up, but so if you if you’re going into a new field and you want to meet the leading lights quickly and build relationships with them, start a podcast siri’s and that is an excuse to talk to almost anyone you want because many people, if they’re if they’re particularly well known there, they just don’t have time to sit down and, you know, have a coffee with just anyone, especially if they don’t know you, but a lot of them, almost all of them. In fact, we’ll say yes, if you say, can i interview you? And having close to ten thousand listeners actually helps quite a bit, but even in the early, even, you know, the first five ten shows when i don’t know, maybe they were twenty five listeners. I don’t know. My mom and dad were two of them, you know? Yeah. I found that people were willing to sit in front of the mic. I told them that it would live forever. It’s always going to be on itunes and there’s. Other platform, you stitcher, etcetera. But itunes is especially four years ago was the the premier. So i said, you know, would live forever. You could link to it. And that was that was appealing to people on. And then as the show grew, you know, i got more and more high. Profile guests chef gordon has been on, and craig newmark, founder of craigslist and craigconnects, and see you, you’ve used ilsen crazy network would kill for that story. Clark has been on. Oh, my god, this next you’re gonna have paul wolfowitz. This is gonna be unbelievable. I’m only one one kevin bacon thing. I’m only one level away from know too. If paul was sitting here, that will be one. So i’m only two levels away from possible for men. It’s remarkable. Um okay, so we have we have more time together. Do you have some examples of people who lived there brand very, very well, you think? Or maybe even maybe some lessons we can learn from those who didn’t do it so well? I don’t know. Sure, sure. Well, you know, i’ll start out. I’ve got a million stories from, from reinventing you and on elsewhere, you know, readers, fortunately, have have started to write into me and tell about how they have applied the principles in their own lives, which is really nice that’s good like, but one of the people that i profiled, who i think might be particularly relevant to your audience is there’s. A guy that i that i write about named craig della penna and craig actually had really his dream job. He was a rail trail advocate and he derailed train rails to trails, exactly converting that attracts toe hiking trails and biking trails. Precisely. And so he was extremely knowledgeable. He literally was the world’s expert in thie conversion of new england rail trails. And, you know, he loved it. He was so passionate about it. I got paid to do it. But when his organization one day they told him, craig closing your field office and you can keep your job but on ly if you move to a different state and he had to think about it but he and his family did not want to move. And so it was kind of a sad day because, you know, it’s not like he’s, an accountant, and he could just do accounting for a different firm. He had a really specialized knowledge base and s o you know what do you what you do? Do you give up the dream? You just take some other job you’re not passionate about. It was he had a kind of rack his brain. But what i love about craig and why i profiled him is that he came up with a brilliant solution. He and his wife had always wanted to have a bed and breakfast. And so they bought a bed breakfast next to a rail trail. And he already knew all the whole rail trail community in new england. So he marketed to them and said, hey, come take your vacations here, you khun bicycle on the rail trail in the backyard, right in the backyard it’s called the the sugar maple trailside in in florence, massachusetts. It was an immediate hit, so he supported himself that way. And additionally, because this is a guy who’s always thinking he really did. A lot of people said, you know, craig, i wish we could do this. I wish i could have a house near a real trail. So he got his real estate license and he specialized in selling people houses next to rail trails. So he’s found a way to tow live his passion and make way more money than he ever did before. That’s. Terrific. That is a great story of that. What’s his name again. Craig della penna. Excellent. I’m going to go out for our for our last break. I know you’ll stay with us. I don’t have to ask. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz durney have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. You have on your block. One of one of the articles is the importance of leverage and how much you’re a number of people that are following you, whether it’s, twitter or youtube, etcetera views can be very, very helpful to you, but how do we get started? How do we avoid being discouraged on day one when the twitter follower county xero when our first youtube video has two views and those were both yours because you were making sure that it got uploaded correctly? How do we avoid being discouraged in the beginning? Yeah, it’s it’s an important question because it does always take time for things to gain traction. I mean, you know, there’s there’s, the one in the million situation where you put up a video and then, you know, tens of thousands of people are glomming onto it, but most of us can’t ever expect that i mean that’s it’s, just not normal. So, yeah, what do you do? Because we all start out in xero we all start out with, you know, three people or something like that. So here’s what i tell people your goals with building a platform and spreading your message. Should change over time. I mean, you know, later, on years down the road, you can say, oh, i’m going to post this and, you know, maybe ten thousand people listen to my radio show that’s fantastic, but in the early days you’re doing it for a slightly different reason, its toe perhaps toe work toward that, but early on, it’s, not about having tons of people listen to you, it’s about having the right people listen to you, and so if they’re not organically coming to you, you can you can bring your stuff to them and here’s what i mean by that. So, for instance, let’s say you have just started a business is a consultant for a small, not non-profits you start your blawg nobody’s reading it, but you come up with articles that you know are interesting and relevant to either your existing clients or your potential clients. So you write, you know, a few block posts, then you go to the chamber of commerce meeting you’re talking with somebody and you meet them and they would be a great client for you and see, yeah. So tell me about some of your business challenges. What? You know, what are you doing? What do you grappling with? They say, well, you know, we really have this problem with staff for attention, you know, everybody’s leaving we don’t know what to do and you can say, oh, that’s so interesting. I just wrote a blogger post about that last week. I’ll send it over to you. If that would be helpful, you get their card, you send it over and they look at it and see oh, this is brilliant. This is just what we need. And so then the next week, you follow-up hey just wanted to see if you like the article, you know? What did you think and that’s the opportunity to start the conversation where they say, oh, you know, tony, this was so useful. Do you consult in this area? And you know you can say well, why, yes, as a matter of fact, i d’oh so it’s it’s a lead generation tool that’s what it can be in the beginning, which is justice helpful in some ways may be more helpful then having ten thousand people know what your name is. And as you move on a test i found i get asked about whether i do things that i don’t do, and i think it’s pretty clear on my my sight, what i do, but still i get i still get contacts. Can you do this and you become sort of you become a good referral source? Yes to say no, i don’t thanks for your message, i don’t do it, but here’s one or two people have been on my show or who i know in the community that do this people start to see you as even more than you are. Yes, exactly, exactly there’s a principle in psychology known as the halo effect, and basically what this means is that if if i know that you’re good at something let’s, say you’re an expert in non-profit fund-raising i’m going to assume that you are really qualified at, you know, organisational development or finance consulting or marketing consulting, and i’ll just, you know, well, tony’s good, i’ll just ask him about everything and that’s actually a pretty great position to be in because, you know, i mean, of course we want to treat it ethically. You don’t want to say yes to something, you know nothing about you. But if you are looking to move into new areas, that could be really helpful because you’re given these opportunities on a platter and if it’s something that you you know, really aren’t interested in don’t know a lot about it can enable you to be teo really become a kind of powerful connector in your community because you have the ability to give people referrals to match, make and to make yourself indispensable resource. And then you’re helping other people too that’s, right? There’s just a joy that comes from putting two people together who potentially can can be of help to each other and withdrawing yourself. But knowing that you made you made the connection, yeah, feeling that halo effect, you know now in in painting on ly saints have halos? Yes, there’s now there’s a different screen. The halo in the nimbus the nimbus is that little sort of fog around somebody’s head, but the halo is that round circle it’s your i don’t actually, i said st too, it is for him is for sight, for silos, for halos, but i don’t know which i’m not sure whether the saints get the nimbus or the halo. The halo effect is still pretty cool. I wouldn’t call the nimbus effect is not too many people know nimbus that sounds like a cloud, you know, cloud type the nimbus serious or something, so don’t don’t change that stick with halo effect, all right? But i don’t know if it’s a sainthood or not after, okay, if anybody knows whether it’s, the who gets who gets the who gets the halo is that the saints or the saints get the nimbus we get so still another couple minutes together. What another example of somebody who’s living their brand? Very well, yeah, story. Well, you know, one of the ones that that i really think is is resonant from reinventing you. Tony is about a woman named debra shaw, and i like her story because e get a lot of blowback sometimes from people who, you know, they liked the concept, they say, oh, this is great story. I want to reinvent myself, but you know what? I can’t do it because i’m over fifty and they say, you know, reinventions for young people and i really want to push back and say no that’s actually not true people can reinvent themselves at any age. Deborah was over fifty when she reinvented herself, and i think her story is really a fantastic one. She spent many years as a human resource is executive in corporate america, you know, did did a great job, you know, had a fulfilling career, but at a certain point, she said, you know what? That’s it i don’t want to do this anymore, but i also don’t want to retired a pinehurst gogol thing, and so she was looking around, you know, really trying to think about what interested in her and a friend, just by chance, dragged her to a political fundraiser. She saw a guy speak who’s going running for governor loved him thought this is perfect. I want to help this guy, so she starts volunteering and shevawn, you know, for anyone who’s volunteered in a political campaign. You walk in the door and they give you the scut work, you know, you say i want a volunteer. Oh, great, make make phone calls for eight hours and this was a talented woman. She she had a lot more skills in that, but without complaint she did it. She made the phone. Calls she knocked on the door, she did all of the basic stupid things they wanted her to dio and she did them well. And she did him so well in made them take notice. And they said, we who? Who is this woman? What’s what’s her deal. And she never done politics professionally before. But within within a matter of months they hired her as a staffer. She became a regional field organizer and and ran a region of this gubernatorial campaign. I did it for a year made so many contacts, she thought this was going to be, you know, fun lark, but it turned into a career because a guy who was running for state senate had met her and said, you’re great, i want you to run my campaign. She became ah political campaign manager and has run probably nearly a dozen races. She now is the head of a political non-profit in massachusetts, eso following her passion, she made it happen. It’s a great story to end with thank you very much, clark. You’ll find her adoree clark dot com on twitter she’s at tori clarke the book is reinventing you to find your brand. Imagine your future, dori. Thanks so, so much. Thanks for having me. What a real pleasure. Thank you. Next week, make your events part of your larger cultivation strategy for your potential donors. Susan gabriel from cause effective shares, her tips and an interview from ntcdinosaur profit technology conference on using technology to organize people around your mission. If you missed any part of today’s show, you find it on tony martignetti dot com. Remember generosity siri’s for those multi-channel retty five k runs and walks, generosity siri’s, dot com, our creative producers, claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules, this music it’s by scott stein of brooklyn. You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You didn’t think that shooting getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Get in. Nothing. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun, shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com, you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking.