Tag Archives: public speaking

Nonprofit Radio for May 24, 2021: Overcome Your Fear Of Public Speaking

My Guest:

Laurie Krauz: Overcome Your Fear Of Public Speaking

We’d rather face death or the dentist, we’d rather talk about money or sex, than have to speak to an audience, even a small one. Laurie Krauz can help you overcome your anxiety around talking in public, with her preparation strategies. She’s a presentation skills coach.

 

 

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[00:01:57.14] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast and uh, oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of elia tibial band syndrome if you irritated me with the idea that you missed this week’s show, overcome your fear of public speaking, we’d rather face death or the dentist, we’d rather talk about money or sex than have to speak to an audience even a small one, Laurie Krauss can help you overcome your anxiety around talking in public with her preparation strategies. She’s a presentation skills coach. tony state too. Next week is Memorial Day, we’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o what a pleasure to welcome back After really too long a hiatus, Laurie Krauss to nonprofit radio having worked in both the corporate and entertainment industries, Laurie brings great skill from a remarkably eclectic educational and professional background to her work as a public speaking presentation and interview skills coach. She’s a professional entertainer and has helped men and women from all over the world and all walks of life achieve their own personal and professional styles while developing their ability to offer dynamic, compelling presentations. She’s also helped AmeriCorps, Sony BMG BBC television, jOHn jay College of Criminal Justice, martignetti planned giving advisors aptly named mary J Blige Foundation for the Advancement of Women. Now you’ll find Lori crafts on linkedin. Hello, Laurie, welcome back.

[00:02:06.60] spk_0:
Hello, tony It’s always great to talk to you.

[00:02:18.94] spk_1:
It’s a pleasure. It’s a job getting my, my synesthesia is kicking in. I just got chills because I know we’re going to have a valuable fun time together. I don’t know how long it’s going to be, but uh, there were,

[00:02:23.02] spk_0:
it won’t be a problem with us having to live through those uncomfortable silences. That’s french to work.

[00:02:51.64] spk_1:
Oh no, no, no, not at all. Absolutely Right. You know, I have my, as you’ve trained me through the years, I have my glass of warm water and I have my, you have yours. Yes, yes. I have my grandfather’s, my tin of Grifters past styles, uh, non sugar. I like the sugar free variety for uh, for potential throats and I’m feeling a little throaty today. So I took a prophylactic actually. I took a uh

[00:03:13.54] spk_0:
yeah, it’s, you know, it’s that allergy time of year and actually we can start with a little bit of that tip is, I’ve really been struggling with allergies this year. It’s very weird because I don’t usually, and so that idea of having something like whatever it is, you would use the halls or you know, I like agricola ready because coughing begets coughing and so tip number one, have something like that ready before you’re not going to be able to leave the room or leave the screen or leave the microphone and go get something.

[00:03:43.94] spk_1:
Have you have your AIDS within arm’s within our, when we get back to face to face presentations on the, on the second shelf for the podium. Uh, well, I don’t like podiums somewhere near you have a little table with a little water. Okay? But we’re getting we’re getting ahead. We’re getting ahead. Don’t be an anarchist stuff. Uh, it’s tony-martignetti non profit radio not Laurie Krauss.

[00:03:55.10] spk_0:
I’m so scared

[00:03:56.42] spk_1:
right now. You’re merely the guest.

[00:03:58.39] spk_0:
You’re merely the guest. Yes,

[00:04:01.54] spk_1:
I’m brutal to my guests.

[00:04:02.79] spk_0:
All right. All right, I’m ready. I’m ready to have a formal

[00:04:25.24] spk_1:
Yes. I prepared a formal question for you. So you are jazz singer, which I have first hand knowledge of because I’ve paid to see you perform. So I know this for a fact. It’s not rumor innuendo. How does singing? And maybe jazz singing especially inform your public speaking coaching?

[00:04:48.64] spk_0:
That’s now I want to say that’s a great question, but I also want to say a little caveat about saying to an interviewer. That’s a great question. That will be the last time I say that because a lot of times people say that because they’re buying time to answer. And so if you as the interview, we keep saying, that’s a great question, tony It just sounds like your bs ng the interviewer.

[00:04:57.36] spk_1:
I don’t get too many guests,

[00:04:58.59] spk_0:
but it is a great question. Thank you. I

[00:05:06.24] spk_1:
don’t get too many guests complimenting my questions actually, it’s a rarity, so thank you, thank you. However obsequious it maybe, or in your case not hesitating at all, but thank you for

[00:07:26.04] spk_0:
that. So, having said that, what’s interesting about it to me is that uh public speaking is an improvisation when you get and you know this, when you get really good at it, you are not afraid of punting, you are not afraid of moving to some other thing that if I leave my script, I’m, I’m doomed because I have practiced this and I am going to do exactly this and that’s what makes for boring speakers, a great speaker is simply having a conversation with their audience. The audience just isn’t actually verbally responding. And so, you know, I always say to people, you think you need to be fancy, you don’t go and look at ted talks, go on youtube and google great uh presentations for college graduations. You will find that your favorite speakers are not using big words, they’re not using fancy paragraphs. They are simply talking and that’s what makes a great speaker. So as a jazz singer, first of all, there’s some technical things like you learn to breathe and speakers don’t get that. Speaking is a physical act and that you really actually need to be warmed up. We’re recording this early today, so I can’t not speak or move before I come to sit down and have a conversation with you. I won’t have enough breath, I won’t have enough energy. And that’s what a singer learns to warm up. A singer learns to practice out loud. You cannot think your song, you have to actually practice it. But it’s the same for athletes. I often say that becoming a great speaker we can borrow from disciplines like performance art and sports because in both of those activities, people know that they need to have a plan, they need to practice and they need to practice physically. And in the case of a singer out loud and in the case of a jazz singer, you learn, you know, there’s a joke in jazz, there’s no mistakes in jazz when you’re scatting or something like that. It’s how you resolve the phrase. So if you think you’ve hit a note that actually isn’t a good note, it’s only not a good note depending on how you finish the phrase. Same thing with a speaker, it doesn’t have to be a perfect speech. You can really mess up, you can really be awful in points. But if you are really clear about your message and passionate about your message, it can be messy and you can still get the job done.

[00:08:27.84] spk_1:
Uh There’s a lot I love in their uh the one that stands out the most is the graduation speakers. There are so many veterans just so simple down to earth, compelling. Uh, I think of steve jobs that I’m pretty sure it was stanford and I forget what year it was, but he tells the story of when he was in college, why he dropped out of college, but how learning fonts in a calligraphy course that he was auditing. He wasn’t even, he wasn’t even a student at the time, I think it’s just dropping in. But you know, there was no security on college campuses.

[00:08:38.01] spk_0:
Then he

[00:08:49.34] spk_1:
like dropped in and, but that informed fonts on the Mac, that’s how we got away from whatever times, new roman that, that, uh, that IBM had at the time. So they’re just, you know, down to earth. Um, Will Ferrell has a very good one. But anyway, the graduation speakers

[00:11:07.94] spk_0:
are, people always think they need to sound smart and and you actually sound more intelligent when you have a real comfort level with what it is you’re saying and why you’re saying it. I often say to people when I’m teaching workshops, if you and the people listening to this will have the benefit of it, how many fancy words am I going to use here and look at that last sentence. If you saw that in writing, you wouldn’t publish that in an article, you wouldn’t publish how many fancy words am I going to use here? You would say it more fancy in the article, but a speech is not an article. A speech is a conversation and so I have to put words in my mouth, literally, I have to put words in my mouth that my mouth is comfortable saying literally the anatomy of lorries mouth, my lips, my tongue, my jaw need to be comfortable saying what I’m saying so often with a client. When they say something, I’ll say, now, is that something you would say to friends if you were hanging out at dinner having a drink, Would you say it that way? And I’m not being funny here. I’m asking that because a speech should not be the time when you practice new vocabulary or phrases and paragraphs structure, you should be making it easy for your mouth to do what it does. You think about an athlete and athlete play? I was just watching tennis. So I’m an avid tenor. Tennis in my brain I’m a tennis player, but in reality I’m a much better tennis watcher than I am player and I’m fascinated by what is similar about tennis and public speaking. I was just watching Rafael Nadal, he’s playing his game, he’s not trying to do what his opponent is doing. His job is to do what he does best as a tennis player. And that’s the speaker’s job. Put stuff in your mouth that your mouth is used to saying. And you will be a good speaker

[00:11:09.64] spk_1:
you said earlier. It’s a conversation with the audience. It’s just that they’re not active participants in the Q and A section, which happens to be my

[00:11:27.84] spk_0:
tony is one of my very, and I mean this very few clients that enjoys the Q and A section, people are usually terrified by that. And that is in that is jazz. Yeah,

[00:13:09.14] spk_1:
I love it. I love I love doing the Q and A’s. Well, yeah, we’ve so, uh, to be a good uh, to stay in line with the lessons that I had learned have learned had learned learned from you through the years. Um It’s been years since we worked together, but you were in my formative speaking years when I was scared and pretentious and thought I needed big words and I didn’t understand it was a conversation. And so uh you always urged that we we we guide the audience, like I’m I’m responsible for the audience. The audience is counting on me to take them through a journey and Uh within the requisite time not to go over time, not to be rushed in the last five minutes because I realized that I got 20 minutes left of material. And now the audience feels screwed because I’m blowing through the second half of my slides in the last five minutes of of an hour long presentation, you know? Yeah, the audience is counting on you. So as a guide path, I always and I’m gonna I’m gonna do it now. Um Now we say, here’s where we’re headed, that’s my agenda slide. Somebody else might call an agenda. I say here’s where we’re headed. So here’s where here’s where you and I are headed. Talk about the goal of your speaking research, right? Practice the last hour, the last five minutes, the last one minute in the post post post performance. So that’s where that’s where we’re headed. What about goals, goals that I

[00:13:11.59] spk_0:
want to. I want to back up just a little bit

[00:13:14.58] spk_1:
now. Goals what? Oh, you know, I thought you were gonna disapprove of my where we’re

[00:17:24.04] spk_0:
headed slide. No, no, no, no, no. I want you there was a lot in that and I wanna keep it very simple for a moment. What happens a lot of times is you get an email and you’ve been asked to speak. And in the email, the subject line gives you the title of whatever it is they’re looking for you to talk about. And what most people do is they then write a presentation about what was in the re line. You know what the subject line said and what I think everyone needs to understand about developing a presentation Is that when in my opinion, when you speak publicly, whether it’s one on 11 on two or one on 20,000, whether it’s a job interview, whether it’s a commencement address or whether it’s what most people are doing, which is giving presentations, well not now, but In conference rooms are on Zoom or to you know, groups of 15-20 and sometimes more than that, whenever you do that, you are opening your mouth to speak because you are trying to move the listener and this is what you were talking about, about taking care of the audience and what it is. They sort of have an expectation from you. That’s this. You are trying to move them from their point a on your topic. That was that subject line to your point B This is not a passive thing of just shooting the poop about something you are trying to motivate and energize the listener to change their mind to come over to your side about your point. That is why you’re talking. Never forget that, ever, ever. It will inform all the things you’ve just talked about. Like what’s the goal? So you say goal, I I call it core message. Ask not what your country can do for you. Yes, we can, things like that. What is it? That is going to be the motivating theme of my presentation. If I want to get people to contribute money to my organization, if I want to get people to vote for me, that’s that’s the easiest one to use as an example. If in a commencement speech, what’s your core message there? I work every single year with commencement speakers And everyone thinks they just need to talk, tell their life story. No, you’re supposed to take that crowd of 8000 people and I like to think of it as a science fiction movie when you’re done speaking, they’re gonna go running screaming to the exit to take an action. What action do you want them to take in the case of a commencement speech? You want them to go out there and take a risk or you know, you need to get much more specific than that, but in the case, you want people to do something, you want them to reach in their pocket and this is not commencement. Now, in the case of wanting money from the listeners for your organization, you want the people to leave that room. This is the simplest one to explain, reach into their pocket, rip out of water bills and shove it in your hand on their way out the door. People need to get that specific about what their goal is. And the core message is the theme that runs through your speech that informs the writing of the speech. That is how you get the people to change their minds and to sign up for whatever it is you’re wanting from them. So that would be the that your goal is in every presentation to move people from their point A on your topic to your Point B.

[00:17:40.44] spk_1:
And you do that through your core message, which pervades which pervades everything. And and sometimes you don’t even, maybe most times I’m thinking like I don’t even necessarily say the

[00:17:44.33] spk_0:
core message. You’re saying that

[00:18:09.44] spk_1:
you’re you’re you’re just hitting it from so many different. There’s a there’s something in trial. Look, I I spent only two years as a lawyer because I hated it. Very, very unpleasant way to make a lot of money. But I remember more from long. I learned more, much more in law school and I learned as an attorney for two years. And when I was in my trial practice courses in a Temple Law school. Now the Beasley School of Law, like, like mrs Beasley, the old dull on a family of

[00:18:14.31] spk_0:
mrs Beasley don’t trash mrs B. Plate,

[00:18:17.39] spk_1:
but it’s not she doesn’t deserve at the law school named after some wealthy donor trial attorney in philadelphia does

[00:18:24.71] spk_0:
all right.

[00:19:20.34] spk_1:
But so I still say it’s Temple University School of Law. Just Temple, not the Beasley School. So you have this you have what you want people to believe, You people the jury and you get at it like that’s in the circle, that’s the circle in the middle. And then you have all these spokes like presidents, their witnesses, their words, their story, you know, whatever it is, you’re to inform that or to get to that core message. But you never really say the core message until in trial. You don’t say it until the closing the closing argument. That’s why it’s the opening statement. But it’s a closing argument. That’s when you coalesce all those spokes into that hub of the core message and only in your closing argument. And and it’s a natural progression if you’ve done it right? So yeah, so you’re not really speaking your core message, your you’re hinting it, you’re controlling it. I don’t you’ll you’ll be more articulate about what you’re doing around it

[00:19:27.74] spk_0:
out, did you? I’m not articulate at all. I just talk. Um so I’m sorry, interrupted. You’ve been

[00:19:33.37] spk_1:
talking longer about talking than I have

[00:20:11.04] spk_0:
seen a particular. I actually often when I’m teaching, you know, the only way I can demonstrate a core message is to use one that existed that people know where those come from, those come from politics. So one of my favorite examples is where they didn’t say the core message in politics. When Bill Clinton was running the first time in the war room, you know, where they plot and plan everything on the wall. There was a sign that said it’s the economy stupid. Now Bill Clinton never went and said in an interview, well, it’s the economy. Stupid James

[00:20:14.01] spk_1:
Carville, right? Exactly. It

[00:20:15.77] spk_0:
was James Carville who stars

[00:20:17.58] spk_1:
in that documentary, The War Room,

[00:20:19.36] spk_0:
which is That’s right, That’s right. And that’s exactly, that’s exactly what that was.

[00:20:24.76] spk_1:
Clinton never said that.

[00:23:44.44] spk_0:
He never said it, but it was the core message, so that any time he was asked a question no matter whether it was about education or buses or human beings, he brought it back to the economy. So he did what we hear all the time in politics. But what speakers who are trying to get funding for something, don’t get politicians that win stay on message. And that means the core message. Now, sometimes a regular person can have a core message that they do say out loud throughout their speech, but they don’t have to, like you said, it informs everything that you put together for your presentation, so that I often say to people, it’s kind of like the Sophie’s choice of your speech, something maybe a really interesting thing to say. But if it doesn’t serve the Master and the Master is the core message, if it doesn’t serve the master, it’s going to be in some other speech someday. Not this one because another thing that’s really important for speakers to understand, and again, politicians who win, get this. In fact, Your audience is only going to retain between two and 15 of what you say. And yet, because speakers are afraid of not having enough to say or sounding stupid, they flood their speeches with data and so no one is listening, and if they are, they’re not retaining. If you want to move people, motivate them, ignite them To move from their point a on your topic to your point B you need to target their heart and their solar plexus, not their brain. And I have about 400 million examples over the years with clients that I have wrestled to the ground about this. One of my favorites was a client who was an O. B. G. Y. N. Who was going to be giving a presentation to a room filled with O. B. G. Y. N. And I said to her, you need to dumb this down, you’re going to bore the heck out of them. And she’s like, no offense, but you’re not a physician, you don’t get this. And I said, I do get better, You blew up better. Don’t you dare say that to me. Yeah. So um she was bloodied, she was actually a long term clients. So I was able to say stuff to her and I convinced her that I actually was right and I I often say we wrestled to the ground. I finally got her to come to my side. Her presentation was so fabulous and so not data based, but more it was uh, it was on sexually transmitted diseases. And so there’s a whole storyline of who’s coming into the emergency room with this, what’s their life like, you know, tell their story and infuse it with the data and she killed it. She hard to say about a doctor, but she just, it is the hardest thing I have to get people to do is to let go of what they perceive to be. Makes a human being sound smart when they talk. It’s not data, it’s a command of the subject matter and a passion for what you’re saying. And you get that passion from a core message that you believe really strong land

[00:24:06.64] spk_1:
it goes to the heart, not the brain,

[00:24:09.34] spk_0:
correct?

[00:24:23.74] spk_1:
Let’s put together there’s a bunch of stuff, we can talk about frustration. We’ll work that in, uh, there were times when I was sure you were going to throw me out of your apartment. I think you were on the, I’m sure you were on the verge of it. You if we hadn’t been working together for a long time years ago, you you might have,

[00:25:04.24] spk_0:
you know, I never want, you know what, that’s as a coach, you know, think about this as a coach in sports that goes on all the time. And athletes are used to that as a teacher in the performing arts that goes on all the time because the creative process is very frustrating and we all, we have blocks about that and we have, we we hit walls about that. And so whenever I work with someone who comes from the performing arts, I don’t actually have the same learning curve of having my client become more comfortable with the discomfort and the the electricity that goes on between student and teacher and in sports. They know it part of the creative process, the process of becoming a great athlete and being a team player. These are very, very frustrating things.

[00:25:28.14] spk_1:
It’s almost record. But out of

[00:25:28.91] spk_0:
frustration comes breakthroughs,

[00:25:31.84] spk_1:
activity, understanding recognition of, of where, where I need to go that I didn’t understand before my frustration

[00:27:05.34] spk_0:
and I had the same thing. I remember one time I musical director, we decided to my my nephew was getting married and I wanted to, he asked me to sing at his wedding and I was adamant that I wasn’t going to sing Sunrise Sunset, that I wanted to write something. So my musical director Darrell gave me a piece of music that he had and I wrote lyrics and I went back and forth a bit with him and he’s done a lot of writing. So he’s a good coach for this. And the middle of the song, what we call the Bridge. He had some issues with. And I thought he was wrong. I was done. This is good. It is good. I am dying. And I that I left that rehearsal because I knew he knew more than me about this. I left that rehearsal furious and also committed to at least trying. I’ll just look at it. And of course it, he was right. And through my frustration, I was able to come up with something that what I had written wasn’t ready yet. And that’s the creative process. It is very hard for me personally, when I see when I have to allow a client to leave, therapists do this all the time, allow a client to leave, Not feeling happy, not feeling good, feeling incomplete and frustrated. Because I know that’s part of this freaking process.

[00:27:11.49] spk_1:
If you’re doing it right. It is, it is. But it leads to breakthrough. Absolutely. I I saw it a dozen times, working with you and and since and

[00:27:24.34] spk_0:
since in your goal at the time. I’m sorry to interrupt. Well I’m not really

[00:27:25.77] spk_1:
sorry.

[00:28:00.44] spk_0:
Um your goal at the time, I will never forget because most of the time my clients are business people who want the skill set of presentation skills to not be in their way at work. Your goal was loftier. You wanted to be really great at it, integrated, wanted to have your own radio show someday. And so your your proof of what the process that you did, what you put into it. I just simply lead the horse to water.

[00:28:30.64] spk_1:
Thank you. Well yeah, it was a it was a frustrating journey to the, to the trough. But not not not like every session, but uh but there is, yeah, there’s the there’s the time I fucking this is done. I’ve worked on this enough. It’s ready. You’re supposed to just tell me, uh you hit it. You hit it right on man. You nailed no notes, no corrections, improvements, no suggestions. You nailed it. Okay. We’re done five minutes. That’s what I was expecting.

[00:29:09.74] spk_0:
You know, there’s like never a time if you have a director for something, there is never a time where they don’t see room for growth. It’s so frustrating. Especially if you’re a person who is more emotional and sensitive and I certainly am that I would love there to be one time where you’re told everything is perfect. The unfortunate truth and and public speaking is a performance art in a performance art. If you’ve been perfect, you have failed. It’s supposed to be imperfect. You know, think about when you’re talking to your friends. If you were perfect talking to your friends, you would be boring.

[00:29:16.78] spk_1:
Yeah. They wouldn’t go to the bar with, you

[00:29:18.47] spk_0:
know. That’s exactly right when we start going to bars again. Yeah. They wouldn’t

[00:29:24.44] spk_1:
they wouldn’t have a night out with you because you bore them to shit right? There isn’t

[00:29:25.27] spk_0:
words that you

[00:29:46.74] spk_1:
think they want to hear it right? There’s not enough alcohol to dull the senses from your uh pretentious over the top speech. Um Look, I have to uh I’m in charge of the audience here, so I have to move us. I have to move us on. And we’re gonna we’re gonna put a couple of things together. Research and writing. Okay, searching, writing. Can we coalesce those?

[00:30:05.84] spk_0:
Let me just say one thing about forcing to finish everything. Um If you’re focused on crossing all the T. S and dotting all the I’s and this interview is a great example, then they’re not going to remember everything we’re talking about anyway. You gotta you gotta

[00:30:09.65] spk_1:
work with Laurie Krauss. I mean we can only yeah, thank you. I can’t make you a great speaker on nonprofit radio But Laurie Krauss can so you just

[00:30:18.15] spk_0:
got there we go. We’re done

[00:30:23.54] spk_1:
talking to when I interview authors about their books, I you can’t run through every page, We hit the highlights, you gotta buy the

[00:30:46.64] spk_0:
damn book and I’m happy to get through whatever. But when you but for the audience in your presentation, try and leave a lot of breathing room. You’re more scared about having not enough. And you should be more scared about having too much because you want to you want to motivate the people to move from their point a to your point be your goal is not to cross every T and dot every I. They’re not going to remember anyway. All right. So research and writing. Is that what you asked me?

[00:30:58.14] spk_1:
Yes, please. I know their distinct, distinct processes.

[00:31:01.97] spk_0:
That’s okay. Research.

[00:31:03.94] spk_1:
You’re you’re an improvisation. Ist your supervisor

[00:34:09.84] spk_0:
go with it. I’m actually preparing a webinar for a new group. And just before we started, I was sitting down because I had asked the person who is contracting my services to give me Who are the people I’m going to be talking to. You know what I want to know the demographics. I want to know what they do now. This is a group that comes from the same organization. So they work for the same place. But he sent me a whole bunch of stuff about Uh, the organization’s mission and all that’s great. I love it. But I don’t know who I’m talking to. Still. There are 12 people I’m told, Who are they? How old are they? I don’t want to ever be surprised. I want to know that everything I’m preparing to say is targeted for the right people. I don’t want to all of a sudden I think I’m talking to a bunch of 50 year olds and show up and they’re all 23. That would be an absolute disaster for when you’re trying to motivate people. And I’m saying this over and over again because this is the point I’m trying to motivate them and in this case I’m coaching them on public speaking, I’m trying to motivate them to throw spaghetti at the wall and try the stuff I’m talking about. So I want to make sure I’m talking to the people who are in front of me. So research involves getting to know who your audience is, even if you think, you know, get to know them more specifically. The best speeches are specific. Most people talk above the topic instead of in it and threw it like steve jobs. Talking about fonts that’s in it. That’s something specific that my brain and heart, I’ve had experiences with fonts that we all can latch onto. So what’s my audience going to latch onto? My best guess is to try and get to know them a little bit before I start writing my speech. Where is it going to be? Is that a webinar? Is it in person? These are going to require very different things from me. Is it a big room? A little room? And am I required to stand at a podium? Am I going to be amplified? You want to get a sense of what all the different elements are of the presentation is so that you can relax and feel comfortable in the environment and with the people in front of you and start convincing them. So once you do all that research, then you sit down and you ask yourself. So this is the topic. The topic is my organization because of the pandemic is has just bled all our money. We need a lot of times people in the nonprofit area want to say support, I say call it as it is, we need you. It’s funny because when I work in the for profit environment, those people have no problem saying we need your money.

[00:34:25.65] spk_1:
But

[00:37:44.93] spk_0:
yeah, yeah. But man in the most wonderful organizations in the world, it’s like pulling teeth to get people to say I need you to volunteer to help out on Thursdays and I need you to bring 10 people with you. You can’t okay can you bring to or I need you can you can you When you leave here, can you put a $5 bill in that been, you know, it really can be very specific. And so once you’ve done all your research and you know what your topic is, then you start working on that core message, that underlying theme. It’s going to run through your presentation that will allow you to move those people to your point B and then when you have that core message, this is how much work this is. Then you sit down and you start writing and this is one of theirs. I think only two times I ever use what is out there in the world of public speaking coaching because I don’t agree with most of it. But this one I agree with when you write your presentation, that’s what you were saying earlier. tony tell them what you’re gonna say, say it, tell them what you said, keep it simple, Develop a very simple road map roadmap is your outline. One of the reasons and there’s a couple of reasons for that. People are only going to retain between two and 15 of what you say and that’s a real statistic. And also when I’m talking I know what I’m going to say next. The listener doesn’t. So even the most simple concepts can get lost because the listeners like a nanosecond behind you, they don’t just have to hear the word, they have to evaluate it. So keep it simple. Everything needs to serve the master. So sit at your computer and you have your core message, you’ve done your research. Just dump thought, don’t edit yourself. Don’t judge yourself. Just dump thought. Put it away if you have time, hopefully for a couple days bring it back up again and start looking for where there’s commonality where you can sort of see where you’re outline is going to come from. You know, the headings. If you’re in in my workshop, I teach research, right practice and then warm ups and so I came up with that by doing exactly this process. I dumped thought and then first I thought I had six categories and then I want weed it down to four, put everything in categories. Eventually you’re going to end up with bullets bullet points. The only people who really use scripted stuff. Our commencement speakers and politicians you don’t need to have when I when you leave your speech, your goal shouldn’t be. Do I get an A for doing all my bullet points? Your goal should be. Do I think I motivated those people do. I think I moved those people. That’s your goal. So that’s sort of the cliff notes version of all that.

[00:37:54.53] spk_1:
What an improviser handle that. You handle that

[00:37:56.57] spk_0:
definitely in adroitly. Thank you. Thank you very much.

[00:38:28.32] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. Where do you want to be heard? Where do you want to communicate? Media conferences, blogs, podcasts. Do you need content for your own site? You want to communicate better and your own owned media? Turn to communications. They can help you with all of that. They’ve got the relationships to help you on the outside. They got the expertise to help you on the inside with your owned

[00:38:35.35] spk_0:
media

[00:38:50.82] spk_1:
turn hyphen two dot c o. It’s time for Tony’s take two Next week is Memorial Day. We remember those who died in

[00:38:51.92] spk_0:
military service

[00:39:29.42] spk_1:
and those who served, I served, I was in the Air Force for five years. And I think we sometimes lose sight of that because it’s also a blowout weekend, beginning of summer, of course, which I appreciate down here on the beach in north Carolina. At the risk of digressing though we don’t really well, it is, it is the beginning of a formal season, but the beach is never really get very crowded here. And you know, it’s north Carolina. We have summer eight months a year. So I, I feel bad for you if you’re not here. No, that was the uh, digression.

[00:39:32.82] spk_0:
Let’s sum,

[00:41:41.81] spk_1:
I have a timer. I’m gonna set a timer for those who have served and those who died. Let’s take 30 seconds of silence together. Think of them maybe their loved ones or maybe it’s just something abstract for you. But some the folks, the folks who served our country, let’s remember them. Thank you. Thank you very much. My fellow veterans, thanks for serving. Thank you. My thoughts are with you. If you lost someone who served it doesn’t matter that where there was a war conflict or you know, people sometimes just die in the military, non war, non conflict. Um, sometimes there are shootings and sometimes there are just deaths, people serving, having nothing to do with the conflict, whatever it is, if you lost someone, my thoughts are with you That is Tony’s take two. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for overcome your fear of public speaking. Your practice practicing you like you used to ask me to practice while I was doing jumping jacks, pushups, high voice, low voice, comic voice. Um Those are the ones, you know, I hope I retained more than 2-15 of what you taught me. No, that’s different though repetition

[00:41:44.21] spk_0:
though over and over. That’s a different thing.

[00:41:55.51] spk_1:
Very interesting. What I retained when we were working together was it was it 2-15 or was it just 2%? Uh but maybe that’s because I only retained. I retained on the low end. I forgot the 15 possibility at the high end.

[00:42:16.00] spk_0:
I think sometimes people remember too because it’s devastating news. Wait, I am killing myself here. I am doing my own research on what I want to include. And I’m Having to have energy and volume and personality. And you’re going to leave here remembering 2%. But yes. So I think people remember two because it’s just devastating.

[00:42:32.40] spk_1:
I didn’t I didn’t remember the 15 possibility on the high end. All right. A little bit. A little about practice. You have you have unusual ways at least. I thought unusual ways of encouraging practice.

[00:45:11.99] spk_0:
It’s actually not all that unusual. There are other people who teach presentation skills who are former actors that use stuff like this. But the practice techniques all come from the world of the performing arts and from sports. That the concept of it from sports if you what what’s happening is practicing is so freaking boring and so you want to just number one, make it more fun. And since you have to do it over and over again doing things like dancing while you practice or singing while you practice or pretending that you’re angry or punching or doing yoga while you practice it just makes it less boring. And you have to practice out loud. And the other thing that doing practice in those ways does is that what you’re trying to achieve in practicing is to become more conversational. And what is more conversational is having a more varied verbal and nonverbal way of expressing yourself verbal is the sound, non verbal, is body language and facial expression. And so instead of, we’re going to work on your body language today, which I think only makes people self conscious by doing other activities. It distracts you and in the process of distracting you. It also ekes out other verbal and nonverbal behavior that despite yourself will become a part of the relaxation in your body that allows you to be more flavorful, verbally and nonverbally when you speak. It also will make you lose your place. And so the practicing in those kinds of ways also tricks you into forgetting where you are and having to find your way back again. That business of people getting freaked out because they can’t remember where they are. That’s that has got to stop. I mean, you know at my age that happens more and more, but I’m not freaked out about forgetting where I am because I know the goal is not perfection. Perfect. And studies show audiences don’t care about not only do they not care about perfection. They hate it in a speaker and they become suspicious of the speaker and the authenticity and man, is it important for you to be authentic?

[00:45:36.09] spk_1:
I just, I just saw an example of that. I won’t name the two guys or the name of the training company. I know it uh and they did a webinar. Somebody referred me to one of the webinars because it’s about planned giving and she wanted me to see what they what their theories are, and the guys were trying to act like they was spontaneous. Oh, that’s a very good

[00:45:41.09] spk_0:
point that you

[00:46:23.48] spk_1:
just need jimmy. Oh. Oh yes, I was thinking about that just the other day johnny and it was like such bullshit. I couldn’t I couldn’t what? Well, I I only agreed with about 10 of what they were saying anyway, so I didn’t watch the whole thing, but but the two of them, they were both on the screen at the same time and and they were trying to be improvisers. It was it was just off, I was so disingenuous and that’s just so affected. I could tell that they’ve they’ve done this, oh, that’s a good point. I’ve never thought of that jimmy, I could tell that he said that all the previous 40 webinars that he’s done at that exact moment to jimmy, you know, it was such nonsense,

[00:47:06.68] spk_0:
you know. And the thing is you need to know that your audiences, they are savvy people. You know the whole reason people nobody language, they know what they hear the tone that that you’re describing is tone. You just know it’s false. And so the goal, that’s why it’s so important to put words in your mouth that your words are not only that you used to sing, but that you’re the anatomy of your head can get through them really easily. That it is literally what, how you talk in conversation. And so when you practice your speech out loud and notice how I’m finding my way back to this. When you practice your speech out loud and you do it in all these other ways. It is tricking you because you also will change some of your words as you’re doing it because it just doesn’t feel organic to you. And if it doesn’t feel organic to you, you trust me, your audiences are all over that.

[00:47:42.38] spk_1:
Something else. You taught me small nugget. But I’ve I’ve kept it and it’s helped me a bunch of times. Your audiences don’t know what you didn’t say, but you left out that you you practiced it a dozen times and somehow you just left it out. Don’t beat yourself up. Nobody knows.

[00:48:49.47] spk_0:
Well actually it’s not only um and again, I’m so glad you’re bringing this up because I’ve talked about this in our chat today, but Mhm. Boy, are you putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable? As my dad used to love to say when you focus on did you cross all your T. S and dot all your I’s? Which is my way of saying, Did you say everything you had set out to say if that is the litmus test that you’re looking at for how you did, it’s a fail litmus test is did you motivate and move people? You know, I’m gonna leave this conversation and think of a million things we could have talked about, but I’m in it, I’m in the I’m enjoying myself, it’s a fun back and forth and I’m excited about the things we’re saying. I’m excited about the points that we’re making and that’s the point of any presentation. Because you’re trying to motivate people, you’re not trying to get an a on a math test.

[00:49:09.67] spk_1:
If you have enough spokes pointing to that hub, that’s that’s my metaphor of that core message. Then you left one or two out. It doesn’t matter, you had another dozen. You hit it so many other ways, it doesn’t matter. And

[00:49:17.22] spk_0:
usually I actually leave

[00:49:18.75] spk_1:
out your main points, You know,

[00:49:20.23] spk_0:
I actually want to strongly disagree with how you’re even saying

[00:49:24.89] spk_1:
that it

[00:49:31.47] spk_0:
does matter if that’s what you’re looking at. It does matter because it’s a fail to look at it that

[00:49:34.68] spk_1:
way. That’s how you’re evaluating

[00:51:35.06] spk_0:
yourself. Yes. It not only if you are evaluating yourself by how many spokes you hit or that you missed a major point, you are missing the whole point of your presentation which was to motivate people and you don’t know, you know, your main point main point might not even be the thing that motivates them. I mean that’s my understanding, I’m fascinated by um the whole process of courtroom from, you know, your opening statement, all the other stuff to the closing argument that it that lawyers will, they’ll be so surprised by the verdict because they thought they hit a nail on the head and they thought they saw those people agreeing with them. Because what they don’t get is there were other little things along the way that for whatever reason, made more of a point, we don’t know what our audience is thinking. So we can just to the best of our ability, pick something, we are passionate about, pick a core message, We are just absolutely all about pick things to say that we think are interesting and will interest the people that we think are in front of us. You know, there’s a lot of guesswork here, there’s a lot of jazz to giving a presentation and trying to motivate people because you don’t know, you know, and when I’m teaching a workshop, I’m getting that information secondhand about my audience and so you’re guessing, but your goal and how you should look back and think how did I do is when people left my room, they were talking a lot. They were energized. They, I don’t know what they were saying, but there was a lot of energy in the room when they left then. You know, you did a great job, might not get what you want, but you did your job.

[00:51:53.06] spk_1:
I want to shout you out for being again, an excellent improviser the way you did your callback with opening statements and closing arguments in what I said 15 minutes ago. Whatever, whatever what she brings it back. What That’s

[00:51:54.72] spk_0:
actually that’s a really important point, stand

[00:52:02.85] spk_1:
up comedy. That’s a callback and uh kind of somebody who’s paying attention and can synthesize what someone else said into what they want to say. And that’s why callbacks are so brilliant.

[00:52:43.35] spk_0:
It’s also important for people to remember and, and uh, that listening tells your audience that you actually hear them and you are more likely to motivate people when they feel like you’re not just talking at them, but you hear them, you’re with them, we are one. And so it makes a person feel more important to you. So then they’re more likely to listen to you. We forget that listening is it’s as important in speaking to listen.

[00:53:06.25] spk_1:
That’s why I love the Q and A. Because I get to listen and I want to focus on what people, what’s on people’s minds. And I can use their names and now on the web, you can shout them out by city and state and, and, and if somebody says anonymous, I said, I don’t do anonymous questions. What’s next? You know, of course I answer the anonymous question, but let’s jump to the last hour. It’s the last hour before I go on. What’s your, what’s your 50 tips tricks and strategies for that? Last hour before my curtain,

[00:53:22.45] spk_0:
I just one of my favorite memories and something that I talk about a lot when I’m teaching is you and being at, I forget what convention center where I met you in a stairwell right before you were going to go on and I had

[00:53:28.20] spk_1:
what Marriott marquis, Marriott marquis in new york city. It was the association of fundraising professionals doing a seminar on planned giving

[00:56:35.53] spk_0:
right. And this is what I tell my clients and this is what my client was doing, standing in a stairwell, punching or something like that. What you know, and again, sports performance arts, if you go into a locker room, if you go in, which I’ve never been into an NFL locker room, but I’ve seen videos, you’re going to see people warming up, You’re going to see big bruising linebackers meditating in a corner. That’s what they’re doing. They’re about to go on the field with one thing in mind maim and kill and they are their headphones on and they’re sitting in that like meditative thing, they’re breathing, they’re getting focused. This is what speakers need to do if you go into a theater, most theaters before a show for a lot of them, the entire cast goes out on stage and they do warm ups together and that, that’s for non musicals too. They want the cast to feel the same energy. But also people need to get their bodies warmed up speakers think they can just walk out and talk. Uh, even in this conversation, I’m having to put out a lot of air. It’s a heightened energy of speaking. So you need to warm up, you need to warm up physically and emotionally if you’re terrified, this is really important for you to do because it helps with nerves. Meditation helps with nerves doing physical things. I have people all over the world going into bathroom stalls all over the world, sitting down on the bowl and doing a breathing exercise in through the nose, out through the mouth, slow down your pulse rate, stand up and do some punching. Do do things that I often say there’s things you can do where you need to be completely silent and there’s things you can do at home before you leave, where you can be making more noise to get yourself energized. You want to be careful not to strain your voice, but you want to, if you put on music and dance, go for a walk. If you do yoga, man, yoga is a great thing to do or Pilates before you’re going to speak because it’s loosening up your body. Your entire body supports the sound that you’re going to make and so the hour before you want to get physical, you want to breathe, get air moving through your body and then the moments before you want to try and get you do something. You know, I always excuse myself when I’m teaching, I go to the restroom because usually the rooms filled with people were chit chat beforehand and I need to get focused. I need to remember I’m about to perform, I’m going to be speaking nonstop for however long and so I go into a stall where I can get some privacy and then I always think of a boxer, that Eye of the Tiger where where they’re going toward the ring. I’ve only seen this in movies where they’re going toward the ring and they just have this laser being focused, they’re about to be on

[00:56:47.73] spk_1:
someone knocking on your door.

[00:57:08.33] spk_0:
No, you know what is happening? Is that there? And I could not believe. Of course we’ve all been through this though, I live in midtown and you know, there’s people vacated all over the place here. So the apartment upstairs for me has been vacant and they’ve chosen today to do Whatever it is they’re doing there for the next 10.

[00:57:12.43] spk_1:
If we can’t hide it, we flaunt it. You know, the Fedex guy knocking on your door. Well lawyer lives in a doorman building so the Fedex guy would not get up to her build uh would not get to her apartment,

[00:57:31.73] spk_0:
but not anymore. All things stop at the front door. Those guys may I do a shout out for the people that work in the front of buildings in Manhattan. They have been killing themselves,

[00:57:49.53] spk_1:
shout out for everybody. We learned what an essential worker is. They work in our food stores, they deliver our mail. They are are dorman for those who live in dorman apartment buildings. Of course. Police fire MTs, transit workers,

[00:57:54.33] spk_0:
yep.

[00:57:59.63] spk_1:
Very few people who make over six figures a year are

[00:58:01.01] spk_0:
truly essential

[00:58:02.38] spk_1:
infrastructure. There are there are lifelines.

[00:58:07.82] spk_0:
Yeah, they are. And uh you know, one of the guys in my building told me that and they have a union that he just got his vaccine. How is that even a thing? How is that?

[00:58:36.02] spk_1:
You know, April I’m sorry. It’s may it’s it’s May 13. They’re essential and we learned we learned who we really we knew who we really rely on. Mm. How about our last five minutes, five minutes, one minute is there? Uh I don’t remember if there’s a difference. There’s not really too much of a difference for me. I check my look in the mirror to see if I have spinach in my teeth. Yes, there’s that one, can we do five minutes in one minute together or they two distinct?

[00:59:43.22] spk_0:
Um you know, I’ve never really thought of it that way. I mean there’s that you know, I really think for that last five minutes you’re you’re definitely making sure your breathing, you definitely take a look in the mirror and make sure everything you don’t want to find out after that. You know, you’re whatever thai is in the wrong place or your sash was tied into the back of your pants, that bathroom and you didn’t know. Uh It’s really helpful if you know someone there to have them take a look at you before you go on because you know someone you can trust, but you really, you’re trying to circle the wagons around your passion because what what does the job is having a passion about what you’re saying? And so you want to just also, oh, eight o’clock the night before you are done

[00:59:44.82] spk_1:
There. S Please don’t be scribbling notes in the last hour or last five minutes. You’re saying even you’re saying even 12 hours or 15, 20 hours before by scribbling at the last

[01:01:08.41] spk_0:
minute. My grandmother used to tell me because that was a really good student and I needed a z. She would tell me That after 8:00 the night before a test, there’s nothing more you can learn. Let it go and relax. And I say that it is such good advice. Your goal is not to be perfect. Your goal is to motivate people to be interested in what you’re saying and that will help you to be interesting and let it go, let it go. And the focus turns to the physical and emotional prep and so five minutes before you need to find a way to exit the room. And if that means you can’t leave the room, you can sit in your um chair at the conference room table. If that’s where you are, sit up on your sit bones, you don’t want to be leaning back, breathe, put your feet on the floor, breathe no one’s going to know what you’re doing. Your eyes can be open, breathe in through your nose, out through your mouth and just see you can you can do a visualization of yourself getting up there and just killing it. So that’s that mental prep that athletes really know how to do? Well,

[01:01:20.41] spk_1:
I love the visualization. Yeah. I see myself running through a tape as a as a sprinter running or whatever. Marathoner running through the finish line tape and and uh yeah, my hands are up and the crowd is cheering the visualizations.

[01:01:29.86] spk_0:
I actually I’ll

[01:01:31.03] spk_1:
tell you a little secret,

[01:02:08.50] spk_0:
I have actually never told anybody this, but when I teach group workshops and I do a breathing exercise and then I have people do a visualization, seeing themselves giving the presentation, they’re going to be giving that day in the workshop and watch and I’ll say watch yourself, just get bigger and more and having fun and I see on their faces they start smiling, they’re seeing it and their whole body language changes with their eyes closed and in there, you know, visualization and and I know that person is going to have a better day that day because because they’re doing that, but I love the look on their faces when that’s going on.

[01:02:25.80] spk_1:
How about post, you have savvy advice that has stayed with me through the years. I just finished walking off the stage, sitting down at the table. Maybe it is a table that makes your post a little tougher, but you can excuse yourself. What’s your post advice?

[01:03:11.80] spk_0:
Yeah, I had to learn, I learned this myself from performing, because people have this habit of thinking that there for some reason they have to tell you how you did. And if you’ve done your job as a speaker, remember, I’m telling you that you’re focusing on the heart and solar plexus of your listener and that you need to be really in passionate about your core message in your topic. So, you’ve gone to an emotional place yourself, you have laid yourself role, that’s what actors and athletes do and that’s what speakers who are doing a great job do. And so now you’re done and you’re still raw. So you’re, you know, you’re sensitive and all of a sudden people are coming over and they need a piece of you or they need to tell you something about how you did. So it’s good

[01:03:24.50] spk_1:
If you can I just interject or they’re so excited. They’ve got questions for you, right? six people lined up to ask you questions

[01:04:25.39] spk_0:
and you can’t take care of everybody at once and you’re aware of that too. And so, you know, you want to say, go back to that bathroom and have a couple of minutes on that bowl. But if you’re trying to get people to be involved in your organization or whatever your topic was in some way, you really can’t leave. So it’s good for you. If you can just, you know, you can be talking to people and you can be breathing, they’re going to be talking, you’re going to have time where you’re not talking. And so just try to breathe. Just try that, same in through your nose, out through your mouth. If you can get used to that sort of meditation breath, you can use it all the time. And you know, it’s like you want to, you can visualize your pulse rate coming down and just try. Those are ways to try and calm down. It’s ultimately you kind of want to be able to almost disassociate from all the energy and the need for you. It’s like your mommy and all the Children are tugging at

[01:04:38.63] spk_1:
your

[01:04:55.89] spk_0:
dress. But um, but the fact is, if that’s what’s going on, you did a great job and you will get used to this after the speech thing and find your method over time. But the real comfort and relaxation is going to happen when you get to leave the room. It’s a tough time

[01:05:27.19] spk_1:
alone. You got to be alone. Yeah, I do. I do. Yeah. Even just a minute, a minute at the end of the hall bathroom and empty bathroom will work. I love seeing when I, when I have to speak, I love seeing private bathrooms. I can, I can close, I can close the latch and I know I can punch the air and I can, I can bring myself down after. But it’s even really literally just a minute or so. But I need, I see, I guess I I perceive it a little differently if there’s people huddled around and asking questions and they’re all excited because I moved them. I consider myself still on stage.

[01:05:36.61] spk_0:
You are,

[01:05:55.99] spk_1:
I feel like I’m some still performing. I have to be alert listening as you stressed. Uh it’s extended Q and A. Which as I said, is my favorite part. I love the Q and A. So it’s an extension of that. I consider myself still performing and then ultimately the crowd is gonna dwindle. You’re giving out your last card, then I go and I retreat to a private quiet corner or a private bathroom.

[01:08:08.27] spk_0:
Yeah, that, that actually is a real, really important thing that you just said and it’s more accurate, you are still performing. So the thing is that, although if you’re doing a one on one and you feel the need to do the breathing great, but you’re right about that, the reality is you’re still performing and so you need to still be in performing mode Energy, which you most likely will be because you have the energy that’s still with you of having done that show. But I’m that way too though about even if I don’t need to use the restroom before I leave the building, I go use the restroom because I just need, there’s just something about solitude. Look, you’ve really done your job as a performer and this is performing. You have given away yourself to your yourself raw, you said. And so you need to get yourself back and just that moment and quite honestly it’s different for different people and this is where people have to find their way. What are the things that I need to do when I’m done so that I can just relax and feel good and whatever and and right after is not at all the time to evaluate how you think you did right after. You should just feel like you did, you, you showed up, you did your thing and that’s a win. There’s always room for growth unfortunately, unfortunately. And you know, some things I might change for me the whole having to teach public speaking, you know how I teach, you have to teach public speaking presentation skills in a webinar, which is a workshop that is highly interactive when I do it, that has been a very difficult adjustment for me. And uh but that’s what, that’s what you do when you’re learning how to do presentations, it’s very difficult. And so when something like that’s thrown in the mix,

[01:09:25.67] spk_1:
you said something that I want to credit you for, you said you let yourself raw and when you and I were working together, I used to get a little wispy now, I used to aspire to my Springsteen moments because I’ve been to dozens of his concerts, dozens scores of his concerts, and even watching them on a video, you can just see The man, even at 70 plus years old, he’s in a place that few people get to enjoy. I don’t even, you know, uh spiritual, its its professional, it’s just a it’s just a special place. And I used to aspire to those Springsteen moments and I have achieved them. And I would call you at the after when I was after my solitude after, after the performance, after the presentation, After the solitude, I would call you on my way, or this was even before texting and uh and I would say I had a Springsteen moment, it was just, it was just such a feeling that I was I was just cruising and everybody was cruising with me. They were following me as I was presenting and you know, that’s, you know, talk about Let yourself raw, I mean, those are those are exhausting, right? But fulfilling. So gratifying beyond gratifying, you know, help me get there a lot

[01:11:11.46] spk_0:
a lot. Well, you, I mean, tony you threw yourself into everything, but I want to say something more about that for the listeners who might be out there who are soft speakers and don’t, you know, I’m a big emotional person, I like to laugh big, I like to cry big, I like to be big, but there’s a lot of people out there who are not like that and we’re not saying you need to be Springsteen or be really big to be a great speaker, you need to be authentic, you need to have something that you’re talking about, that you are passionate about in your way. And I remember where we met in the, The networking workgroup right? There was a woman in there who um every so often we would get to give a 10 minute presentation and she did everything wrong, everything I tell people not to do. She had written something, she stood up, she read it, she never looked up and she was very soft spoken. Thing is she’s a great writer and it was Incredible. It was so beautiful. So it was like those old painewebber now, I’m aging myself commercials where that when painewebber speaks everybody listens you were like her child for 10, not you, but one was like her child for 10 minutes. You hung on every word. She is the exception to the rule.

[01:11:14.66] spk_1:
She’s also a professional writer and editor. That’s right. 30, 40, 40 years of publishing experience.

[01:11:57.36] spk_0:
Exactly, publishing. But I use that as an example with my students all the time. These are all the things I’m saying we do. And there are people out there who don’t have big personalities, that’s who they are. That doesn’t mean they can’t be a great speaker. It just means that we have to find within them what their passion is on the topic and figure out ways that they can put words in their mouth to allow themselves to just enjoy saying what it is they’re saying and people will listen if you’re authentic. Mhm. When she did that. Yeah, I remember

[01:12:23.85] spk_1:
that. Yeah. We went over time. I don’t know. I had a timer. For some reason. We went over like 10 minutes. I don’t care. It doesn’t matter at all. Laurie Krauss, L A U R E K R A U Z. You’ll find her on linkedin. You just if you want to be better speaker, speak to her uh outstanding. She’s outstanding and you’ve been outstanding through the years. It’s always was a pleasure working with you. I may have you, you know, you’re motivated me. I may have you. Well, I’m doing something today this afternoon. I’m doing a call him quick shot. 45 minute webinar maybe. I’ll have you uh I’ll ask you to look at it. I would like, I’d like your notes after all these years. I’d like some notes,

[01:12:44.25] spk_0:
wow, tony I’m

[01:12:45.55] spk_1:
gonna do it. I’m going at three o’clock. It’s 11 o’clock today. Three and four hours I’m performing um doing a webinar on planned giving. I’m gonna I’m gonna shoot you the video link and uh let’s let’s talk about it. It’s I love it. I love it.

[01:12:59.95] spk_0:
I love talking to you, Tony and I’m so pleased for what you’ve created here. It’s just amazing.

[01:13:07.95] spk_1:
You helped me create it. You did, you were there in my formative

[01:13:09.39] spk_0:
times. Yeah.

[01:14:08.95] spk_1:
Next week, an archive show for the short holiday week. I’ll pick your winner, I promise. It will not be the fermentation show. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows, social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott Stein, mm hmm. Thank you for that Affirmation scotty. He was in the next week for nonprofit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95 go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for March 16, 2012: More Dreaded Than Death & Dentist: Public Speaking & Pinterest Possibilities

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Laurie Krauz
Laurie Krauz: More Dreaded Than Death & Dentist: Public Speaking

Presentation and public speaking coach Laurie Krauz has four steps to get you from, “No way I’m getting in front of those people” to “I killed!”

 

 

 

Scott Koegler
Scott Koegler: Pinterest Possibilities

Pinterest is the newest social media property to skyrocket. What’s it about and is there anything in it for your nonprofit? Scott Koegler is our regular tech contributor and the editor of Nonprofit Technology News.

 
 
 
 
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No. Dahna welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s march sixteenth, twenty twelve i sincerely hope you were with me last week, because if you weren’t, you would have missed conversations with marc ecko, craig newmark and naomi levine started with thoughts on branding and other business lessons applicable to charities from marc ecko, founder of the very consistent brand echo enterprises. You may be wearing his hoody then it was craig you, mark, the founder of craigslist and craigconnects he had ideas about simple communications and knowing when to stop talking. Those interviews were from the nextgencharity conference last year, and we closed last week with naomi levine, executive director of the heimans center for philanthropy and fund-raising at new york university last may at a reception for my show, she and i talked about professionalizing fund-raising ending, enhancing its stature, the role of trustees, government oversight, motivation for small charities and the future of the charity community. This week more dreaded than death and dentist. Public speaking presentation in public speaking coach laurie krauz has four steps to get you from no way i’m getting in. Front of those people. Two i killed and then pinterest, possibilities. Pinterest is the newest social media property to skyrocket, what’s it about. And is there anything in it for your non-profit? Scott koegler, our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news. We’ll fill us in between the guests. Tony’s take two this week, the new york times restore philanthropy, the times dropped philanthropy and charity as a full time national beat, and i don’t like that you can follow the conversation with us today. On twitter, use the hashtag non-profit radio the show is supported by g grace corporate real estate services. I’m very grateful for their support. Right now. We take a break when we returned more dreaded than death and dentist, public speaking, stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Duitz hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your host, tony martignetti for nearly thirty years, laurie krauz has owned techniques, tips and exercises from her work as a professional jazz singer and her background in social work, image consulting and as an officer in a major wall street bank to inform her practice as a presentation, public speaking and interview, spill skills code, interview spills. I just did an interview is actually very common. I just did a spell. It was a lousy pratfall. She’s helped my speaking personally considerably. She is at krauz consulting dot com. Her last name spelled k r a u z, and i’m very glad that her practice and her work brings her to the studio. Lawyer krauz welcome. Thank you, tony. I am thrilled to be here. You know that. I know your excited i am to have you. Thank you. Why do people hate public speaking? Fear it so much? I think, you know, i’ve actually done a lot of research into that. I think that the my undergraduate degrees in social work. So the social worker part of me looks at those things because people are absolutely my favorite joke, and i didn’t make this up. Is somebody at a funeral would rather b the corpse, then deliver the eulogy? That’s, like my favorite thing in the world, cracks me up every time i hear it. So i think, you know, you could really try and figure this out, and i think in a certain way, it doesn’t matter. What are you afraid of? You’re afraid you’re gonna embarrass yourself. You’re afraid your mother is going to hate you? You know, i think quite frankly, i think they’re kind of deep seated psychological issues that make some people absolutely terrified of standing up in front of other people, one of my nephews and i won’t name him just in case they’re listening. He used genius kid used to stand up in front of the class when he had to give a presentation and faint. And now he’s a teacher my mother would call me and say, oh, your nephews now know who you’re talking about. I know i’m going to say his name now, and my mother would call and say, brad fainted again in class today and, you know, and now he’s a teacher, so you work on that, you find ways around it and you develop skillsets that were never taught in school and if you develop those skillsets anybody khun talk to other people, we do it all the time with our friends. Ah, great public speaker, someone who was great at present ation skills is simply talking, and the mistake people make is that they think there’s some sort of acting or some sort of other being that they have to become in order to be a great speaker and it’s really better just coming from the heart and being yourself. Oh, yeah, i mean, you know, if you think about it to me, i’m dealing with people who are mostly working with talking in business situations. So what i say is whether it’s one on one, one on two or one on twenty thousand in a business situation, it’s performance art, but it’s you as performance art and so in business, you’re trying to move someone from point a to point b in their thoughts that’s why we talk to them whether it’s to get them to buy something sells something, learned something, teach something we’re going to talk about having a goal, right? Exactly, exactly your goal is what exactly? You’re trying to get them to move their positions somehow. And so when you’re passionate about what you have to say about that and clear about it, you’re much better at it. It’s a big deal. I pulled listeners before the show, and we got a terrific response to this week. Um, the first question was speaking of is speaking in front of audiences and i said from two to two thousand something you do frequently for work or otherwise, and about sixty percent said yes, the other forty four percent no, not not part of something they do regularly, so pretty common, of course have to be in public, and we could be talking about aa meeting was just one of the person, right? Most people come to me because they’re giving presentations to one, five, ten people in a conference room sitting or standing in front of a powerpoint presentation, and my biggest gripe about our education is that they teach us the minutia of what we need to understand about what we do, but they don’t teach us in school how to tell other people about it. And then all of a sudden you’re at work and you have to tell your boss, tell your colleagues you constantly having to report on what you do or tell potential clients, and you’re not prepared for that it’s like ninety percent of what you do is not understanding what you do. Ninety percent of what you do is telling other people about what you do when we’re not trained for that we have just a minute before our first break on, i know you have four steps that were going to talk about what i just sort of tease those the four steps, and then we’ll go into detail. Four steps to great present ation station station stations step one research step to write step three practice and step for i called dead man walking that’s a good teaser. Okay, we don’t have to you’re going to sit there, steps one through three to get to and find out what dead man walking to get. Sir, what step forward dead man walking is we take a break right now and when i when we return, we’re going to talk more about public speaking. Dreaded more than death and dentist. Stay with us the same thing. Shooting. Getting, thinking things. You’re listening to the talking, alternative network. Things get. Good. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio. Twenty four hours. Lively clamber station top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. Durney welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio we’re getting into the details of lori krauz on her advice on being a better public speaker she’s my guest right now and the presentation and public speaking coach all right, so let’s help people overcome their fear get better at this. Your first step is sort of gathering information, write what happens is when people go to give a presentation, they put the cart before the horse every single time. If you want to feel to me what makes a great speaker and kind of the cure for the nerves, for people come to me because they’re either nervous, they have a hard time had a client once say, i’m brilliant in my head, but somewhere between my brain and my mouth there’s just a disconnect and it doesn’t come out right those air or they want to have some engaging way of delivery, so people think this happens by magic. It happens because you’re impassioned about what you’re saying. It happens because you pick a topic that you must talk about, that you feel that you’re desperate to tell people about, just like you would be desperate to tell your friends. How you get there is number one investigate who’s going to be there know who you’re talking to if you want to feel more comfortable, you want to feel more relevant to your audience, and this include knowing your audience. This includes if this is something on the web absolem in our absolute you’re standing in front of, you know, it’s, just like your show, you want to know who’s out there, you want to be presenting stuff that people are going to want to listen to, it makes you feel more comfortable, makes you feel better, relaxes you and allows you to speak more easily. So basically you’re going to do demographic research about who you’re talking to. You know, when i give presentations in arizona, i used different analogies than when i use in when i speak in new york and it makes me feel like they like me better, so it helps me to relax number one, gather information based on that number two, you’re going to sit down and you’re going to write i like people to have a core message, you know, ask not what your country can do for you. I have a dream. Today, yes, we can. These air thes air spoken core messages, core messages don’t need to be spoken, but it’s a theme, a very specific theme of what you’re going to talk about and everything you write should relate back to that theme. Keep it simple. I didn’t make this up, but it’s, one of the old saws of public speaking that i actually do agree with, i don’t agree with a lot of them tell people what you’re going to say say it, tell people what you said keep it simple have a very clear roadmap now i know from personal experience that you beat people up about everything people, tonto, just generally just i’ve heard rumors over rumors to the effect that you hold people tightly to this core message that everything has to relate to the core message, right? Why are you so adamant about that? Because, it’s, if you’ve ever seen a great speech, everything it’s kind of like a great piece of theater, what makes a great piece of theater is there’s a beginning middle and an end if you’re trying to move someone if you’re trying to change their mind if you’re trying to teach them the most engaging way to do that is to start somewhere, go somewhere and end somewhere that makes them come over to your point of view and a theme helps you do that. People are too confused when they speak, they cover too many topics and so your audio youjust lose your audience that way, right? So it’s a good speech is not, or a good presentation is not just a list of valuable, helpful kinds of things. No, absolutely not. It should be smaller on facts and figures and bigger on personal stories and experiences, not humor if you are not innate ly funny if you hear start your speech with a joke, yeah, cricket, cricket, cricket, cricket and then you just want the florida open up and swallow you. We don’t have to start with a joke apse do i say if you’re not funny? Don’t even think of it all studies show that audiences care more about people who are genuine than people who are funny and doesn’t the audience want you to succeed? Oh, they’re spending time with you. Whether it’s on the web were in person, they don’t want to be wasting their time they’re on your side initially, right? Until you do something. Maybe that right? Although, you know, we look out at people’s faces and we have a tendency, i think like dogs go to people who don’t like dogs. Human beings look at the people who look like they’re sucking on a lemon and this is actually step for this is a dead man walking trick which is and dead man walking meaning howto ideal with this absolute fear went when i years ago as a performer, when they would say places, miss krauss, my whole life would pass before my eyes. So that’s step for but i want to say something about step three first, if i may it’s totally out of control. You are going to show control right now. You know as well as you know. No, please. Number fight. Oh, that. Would you like to start with number three? Ok. Well, first tell me about janet. You could just turn my mike. So first, let me say what i said on break, which was as a child. My family would pay me money to be quiet when we were on family trips. And so this is one of those moments right now, you would like to pay me to be quiet. Three threes, right? Step three so when you the most important thing, when you think about starting to sit down and write things and this is step two again, sorry in step two, when you write use words, your mouth would say if you were at dinner with your friends, it’s the biggest mistake people make in writing present ations if you remember nothing else from me visiting you here today, you must use the spoken word, not the written word use slang you if you if you go back and listen to this, i’m sure there’s a lot of times i’m using words that are not very impressive by themselves if you wouldn’t have to go back and you were, i know what threespot so comfy now with you, but we were talking and no, i didn’t come out exactly right point that’s, exactly right? And i’m able to get impassioned cause i’m using words i would actually use when i get excited about stuff, not a formal article. A speech when you read it out loud should actually make you concerned that it’s not smart enough that it’s using language that’s not smart enough that’s going to help your mouth have an easier time saying it and that’s, what gets us tripped up when we go to give our speech our mouth isn’t ready for some of those words. This also goes back to just be yourself. Yes, seymour of yourself and we’re none of us speak as written articles, even i’m not even so. They’re not scholarly, artie. Just none of us speak the way we right. Absolutely. You don’t do it. And scholars don’t either when they give great presentations. Um, so around this the adamant ce of the core message. There could be a lot of frustration because a lot of things you want to include right don’t really belong, right? It’s. Kind of like sophie’s choice. I always think you have to leave some stuff out. You have to make choices. You have to remember that you’re trying. You have a goal here. What do i want? These people to walk out of the room with dough? I want them toe hyre me. Do i want them to buy something from me? So i want them just to think. I’m smart. What do you want from your audience? And if you have something incredible to say that has nothing to do with that, it just has to be in your next speech if to be a grown up about it, it’s a lot of hard work to develop a good present ation we’re in the midst of talking about preparation. On another question, i asked listeners was thinking of the last time you spoke in front of others. Did you feel you were adequately prepared? And nearly fifty percent said yes completely, and then the remainder said pretty well, but i could have used more time. What is that? If you’re if you’re just pretty well, but not perfectly well prepared in your mind, right? What does that do to your performance? Well, it’ll make you more nervous, it’ll make you forget your place, it’s, exactly the kinds of things that make us not give a great presentation, but i do want to say something about that we live in the real world. I work with business people, it’s a lot of people do nothing in preparing because they don’t have enough time to do everything and what i say is a little is better than nothing so it’s not going to be perfect. And in fact, studies show audiences don’t want you to be perfect. They want you to be genuine, and so a little bit of effort is better than none. You don’t want to be perfect. You want to lose your place, you want to be what you are when you’re with your friends. You also cite research about how much people retain right shares. My favorite thing someone told me this years and years ago because i was a nervous wreck about something and audiences will retain between two depending on this study between two and fifteen percent of what you tell them. So lighten up. You know they’re not going to remember it anyway. I have a test show is now more than fifteen percent over. So already we’re into the words, the overflow except one eyes shut us off now. Oh, except when i speak, people retain one out. Letters. A research outlier. Yes, that’s. Okay. So let’s formally move to step to because we just i need to keep moving along. So we’re writing now? Yes. What? What are some ideas about? Writing on the stage, i think we pretty much actually covered this to the three most important things i want to say. Tell him what you’re going to say. Say it. Tell him what you said. Make a clear road map. That’s the same thing is what i just said and use words your mouth would say youse were if you if this is the two percent of what you remember, make it this use words your mouth would say make it easy for you to be who you are. All right. What about the part that you can’t write the q and a? The q and a is something that is that you love that. I love that, but a lot of people really, really are horrified by it. I like to use stuff like lawyers do with witness prep. The problem with q and a is the moment between the question and the time you answer it’s like we panic in that moment. What’s the best way to diminish that panic practice that moment, anyone i have that’s going for job interviews and there’s more of those people right now. I tell them when you leave here twenty minutes three times this week get a friend to ask you questions so that you can get used to that moment people say, but i don’t know what they’re going to ask me. Really? If you work for burger king, are they going to be asking you about rocket science? No, they’re not. They’re going to be asking you about something to do with burgers and buns. So, you know, hamburger buns? No. Yeah, because if it’s the other kind, then then they were into anatomy. Well, then you’re goingto lawsuit and we don’t do yeah, right there, outside our scar scope, but okay, clearly, that was good. I liked it and does it. So i get critiqued, teo that’s for me to do for you. I know i will use this. You just remember i can use all of this against you someday. Let’s see? Power points. Are they essential? Or does it depend where you’re presenting? What? It depends where you’re presenting half the time. There’s problem with the technology if you use powerpoint. Powerpoint is not a word document. Power point is imagery. People make the mistake of putting up big giant paragraphs on para point turning. Their back to their audience and reading what’s on the slides. Big mistake para point a rule of thumb i read years ago, which i liked is no more than three lines on a slide no more than five words per line that’s a powerpoint slide, but use images use great you something that delights the child in the audience. If you make it all words, i would advise against it. Some of the most effective speakers that i’ve seen have been in ted conferences, where speaker gets just eighteen minutes to speak. They’re not allowed to use notes on dh there there sly. I don’t even know if there are there their video. Their images are all photographs and video there’s not a single word, right? But there’s some of the most effective speakers i’ve heard right when i give a presentation, i have two versions of my powerpoint presentation. One is the handout, which has all the words on it and the other is what i have on screen, which is the images and things like that. And if you need to remember, if you some people use their powerpoint slides to remind them where they are have notes? Yeah, let’s, move to your third step. Practicing practice. What here is? We pray o k we practice and then when you’re finished practicing, you practice some more. And when you’re absolutely sure you ready you practice, i hate practice more than any human being on the planet. I get hate email and you’re just singer and i’m a jazz singer, so all i do is practice speaking and singing it makes me want to kill myself, but i practice as opposed to the alternative, i think it’s better on most days. So here’s the thing we practise because it helps us to do a couple things. The first thing it helps us to do is remember what were going to say. The second thing it helps us to do is vet out some of that language to make sure that our mouth easily says thes things. The third thing with good playful practice is it tricks you into new forms of verbal and nonverbal behavior. What makes a speaker interesting is when they’re really kind of flavorful in their verbal and nonverbal behavior. You sitting here and no one can see me? I can’t talk without my hands. Moving it’s who i am. Good flavor. Yeah, have a good flavor going are pretty much a root beer barrels you hate root beer, but thank you, but i’m so so that my chest feel latto argast saturday not all about you? Yeah, i’m the guest. So what i say to you is you’re you’re animated, i’m always animate. So what i say to people is try role playing. I had a client yesterday who’s interviewing right now pretend she was a friend of hers who i know who’s, a really wacky person. As she answered my questions. It tricked her into new verbal and nonverbal behavior. And then what you d’oh after you do this is what actors do, by the way, they do crazy exercises. Tell it to your dog. Tell it to your kid tell it you know, you know, tell it to a plant. It tricks you into new behavior, sing it, dance it whatever and then practice it normal day of your present ation you’ve done all this work you’ve researched, you’ve written, you’ve vetted out the writing, you’ve practice practice practice. Now you go in there, forget everything you’ve done and just talk and some of what you worked on will sneak its way into your present ation. You’ll feel a little better and you’ll get better and better and better it’s like learning tennis, it’s like learning any music, any musical instrument being a performer, it takes time, it takes development, the part that you don’t remember, it doesn’t make it in. Nobody knows you don’t feel bad about what you left out, right? It’s not gymnastics at the olympics, where they have a list of what you were going to do and then say you forgot your you know, triple axle, of course i’ve just talked about ice skating, but no one hopefully that’ll be part of the eighty five your metaphors are all over the map, okay, but they’re my metaphors and i stand for them. We’re going to move to your dead man walking. Okay, good for your management, fear management. This is behavioral techniques to deal with the absolute terror. You will have done steps one, two and three and you’ll still be nervous and here’s the bad news and the good news. The bad news is you’ll never completely not be nervous and i can use double negatives. It’s. Okay, when i do it, you will. But the good news is you can stop trying. This is thie, inner nut. I call this the internet and i like to say that if you’re on the subway and you see some crazy person talking about having just had lunch with god, you don’t go over and engage them. Unless that’s your business, you turn away. And yet with our inner nut with speaking, we focus on it. Why am i so nervous? This is crazy. What’s. The worst thing that can happen. I say avoid that. Use something called the stop technique. Say to yourself in your brain stop as you start ruminating about everything that could go wrong. Right? And stop the spot. It’s. A very imperfectly behavioral approach. But it for a nanosecond stops the downward spiral and it keeps it from getting completely out of control. We just have a short time left. What did you do in the five minutes before you go on? In the five minutes before you go on, go to the bathroom. Everyone will understand. I have to go to the restroom. I did it here today. And this? I do. All the time it helps you to focus, sit down on the bowl and breathe, just breathe in and out and you could do a visual ization. It’s very useful tennis players do this football players do this, see yourself giving the presentation, see yourself getting better and being everything that you can be. Stretch your shoulders, roll your tongue around in your mouth so that your mouth loosens up. Do do stretch any stretching thing that you would do that doesn’t put you out of breath, it engages your body, it gets it active so that you’re going to have a better chance of being more focused and more alive. It all works. I know from personal experience. Lori krauz is a presentation in public speaking. Coach, you’ll find her at krauz consulting. Dot com again heard last name spelled k r a u z laurie, thanks so much for being against tony. I really appreciate real pleasure. Thank you. We take a break and we returned tony’s take two and then pinterest stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back, it is time for tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour on my block this week, new york times restore philanthropy the times dropped philanthropy and charity as a full time national beat and i’m appalled, i think that’s a big mistake, i can’t make a business decision for them, but i think it hurts the charity community put it that way terribly there’s a lot that’s interesting in non-profits and philanthropy that won’t get covered because it emerges as trends over time, not discreet news items in a day. And i think without somebody reading each day’s news and looking at trends through the philanthropy i that those kinds of stories are going to get going to get missed, they won’t, they won’t be seen. I’m thinking about things like compliance and oversight, increasing non-profits thie economy as it creeps out of recession what’s the impact on charities non-profit hospitals waiting for final health care reform religious organizations that are slowly losing market share in fund-raising environmental on healthcare groups reacting to climate change and even abroad, european countries austerity measures leaving some of their societies needs unmet i list those and we’ll be fifteen or so others that i think issues that i think i’m going to get lost because the times doesn’t have someone devoted to the charity and philantech could be my block. Is that tony martignetti dot com and the post is called new york times restore philanthropy that’s tony’s take two for friday, march sixteenth, the eleventh show of twenty twelve. Scott koegler are you there? I am here, tony, and i can tell that you are i know that you are and i am to scott koegler, of course, our regular technology contributor, he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find it n p tech news dot com and we are talking about pinterest, possibilities pinterest center that’s no that’s an interesting pronunciation. I hadn’t heard that i, uh, actually, i started spelling it that way and found out that i was wrong. But what’s that’s how the website is belt but with the word interest with a pee in front of it. I am p i am t e r e s t i guess it’s, maybe just the new york thing. Yeah. Okay, but are you saying you’ve been pronouncing it pin interest? Nope. Interest interest. Oh, just wear that. Put the accent. Oh, you’re being so particular i just where i play sax and i i was saying pinterest and you’re saying pin hoexter with pinter? Yeah. Pinterest. Right. All right, what the hell is it? Minor point. Minor point. What is it? What is it, it’s? A it’s. An electronic pushpin bulletin board. I guess if you will, um, you know, it constantly amazes me how these social media sites come and flourish and sometimes disappear. Yes, uh, you know, this one has got some traction pretty quickly. And i think a large part of that is because it’s so graphical, you know, people can i can see it now. People like to see pictures, of course. And so that’s, pretty much you have to have almost a picture or video to actually pin it to the board. Yeah, i found out about pinterest through our social media manager regina walton does the social media for the show and also for me and my company. And weeks ago she pointed me to it, and i really didn’t know what to do with it initially. And then i got a little more into it. And i started thinking about it, and i saw how engaging that visual nature is. It is that’s, one of the there are some platforms that present social media, like facebook, twitter and google, plus in a kind of a magazine format. And if you look at those, what you see is pictures, mostly and there’s, some tax. Essentially, in order to make it onto the pages, you have to have pictures in the post. So i think this is more of a continuation of that kind of trend. And onda a lot of people do also, mostly women. Very interesting. Yeah. I saw that pretty good proportion of women over overwhelming majority. I saw something in forbes dot com in a forbes dot com article that said ninety seven percent of the active participants in pinterest are women. That’s? Incredible. Yeah. I didn’t, uh, surprise me tremendously. I think. It’s similar? Oh, you fancy yourself such a good judge of what women will like. Is that right? Women’s trends? Yeah, in some cases. Is that right? Yes, it does. Your wife agree? Exposure there. Okay, but i think my take on it is from the, uh, kind of the bonem scrapbooking, you know, scrapbooking gestures and those kind of things that really make visual sense and, you know, this makes it just so easy to do, you know, that’s really a big thing, i believe is just being able to make it easy and that i’m not saying that it needs to be easy for women to do, and i think that that just makes it easy to do you know what your stuff also on that that women topic media bistro had something very current, i think, was yesterday or today that women trust pinterest, mohr than twitter and facebook, and they’re more likely to use pinterest over twitter or facebook in making a purchase decision. Interesting, they just they trust what they seem or there than they do from from actually even from friends because facebook is all friends, so that could be, you know, but my take on that also is that it could be just because it’s so new, and that hasn’t been spammed yet. Okay, it’s tough to get a real sense of credibility out of twitter because your twitter stream khun b pretty much anybody that wants to be in it sure, and so that, you know, the spammers air has pretty much taken over big segment of that you have to be very careful to kind of lead out those that you don’t want, but if you look at your pinterest paige, you’ll see that, you know, you’ve got recent activity over there and it’s got the pictures of the people again. Pictures are important here, so it has their avatars or their photos, whatever they put up their, and in my case, i don’t have a whole lot of people online yet, but there are, you know, all the people are folks that i either know personally or no kinda yeah, there’s nobody in there that i would say, oh, my gosh, that person and, well, people find you as scott koegler on pinterest, i think so. Look, that’s, the guy doesn’t even know his accountant. You believe this technology contributor doesn’t have one of those? While scott figures out his account, that is exactly ok. Ok, in fact, i think i did that based on my twitter account. Okay? Yes. And it’s, they’re easy to link. I understand. And i think there’s some automatic posting available. Well, you post a peace to europe interest you can also selected, posted to both twitter and facebook and since we’re talking about our own pimping a little bit, i’ll say that i’m on pinterest also and my boards and i’m goingto keep myself out of jargon jail, because in a moment, i’m gonna ask scott koegler explain what boards are my boards are so the things i’m posting about our non-profit videos, i have some that are pretty sum that are gritty and elsa have aboard for see female ceos of non-profits so scott koegler what? What did i mean when i said my boards, boards, boards, well, that’s the term that they used for the pin board or the bulletin board if you were on whatever it is that you you put stuff on, so yeah, that’s what it is, tell me and that was a nice segue way there to get yourself out of jail. What is your interest handle? Tony martignetti just one one continuous that’s correct and and to move this tio non-profits one of the questions i ask before the show is do you feel you have a good understanding of what interest is about and about sixty percent said either yes or yes, somewhat and then forty percent said no, not familiar with it. So we’re hoping to convert that forty percent? Yeah, i mean, it’s it’s still fairly new it’s just it’s just doing very well. Yeah, it is new again. That’s one of the things that i think makes it, um, interesting and personal, i think that’s it’s a big part of why people might trust it. So what should a non-profit be thinking about as they set up their boards there? Topics? What should they be thinking about them? They should be thinking about the same things they’ve been thinking about in using facebook in-kind not so much in twitter, i believe, because facebook allows you to have more content, but certainly as i just explained it’s a graphical environment. So if you have images a cz, you’re doing videos, anything else that is graphical in nature? Those are the things that you would want to pin and you want to be selective about the boards that you create. I would suggest that things can be personal or they can be company which the segway into that for a second? Okay, please. Facebook started out as a personal environment twitter started out the personal environment, even google plus started out as a personal environment, not allowing corporation’s, heredity, xero or organizations control has both you can actually be either or either a person or an organization, so certainly if you’re starting out a country, um board set for your organization, we would definitely want to select the organization as the identity for that and then create the boards that have to do with what you do well, what the activities air the tv or the the passions surrounding you. Non-profit and as a social media certainly want to invite and include other non-profits and other people, so part of the whole genre is reaching around collecting stuff from other parts of the web. It’s not so much those things that you create yourself as those things that you like. Yeah, your interests it’s not what you do, it’s what you like and that’s a very good point. I was on a twitter chat, we’re going, we’re going to talk about in the next show with the gentleman who runs twitter chat this one, this one is fundchat and one of the points that was brought out there. Was that precisely what you’re saying? That it should be bored should be the topics that are related to your mission, not on ly from directly from your organization. That was ephraim go pin, um be broader don’t just show exactly what you do but show things that are related, right? I think people and organizations are much more interesting and when when you know what they are about, what they’re, what surrounds them, what kind of things they’re interested in, and not just those things that make them up individually, whether it’s an individual or organization, you know, we’re also multi faceted, and we have lots of different interests, and i think that’s what? What this tackles is what are those interests? How how can i relate to this organization? And it may not actually be that particular organization, right functions that maybe something ansel earlier, too. Otherwise you start to look to self promotional. I mean, there should be self promotion. It is that’s a part of social media, but it shouldn’t be exclusively that scott, we gotta take a break when we come back, we’ll keep talking about pinterest, possibilities and hope. Everybody stays with us talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community oppcoll. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcast are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. 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No, please, you’re worse than a screaming child. I know scott as as non-profits going to set up their boards, you have to pick a category, and i see that there is no category for social change or charity or non-profits interesting, isn’t it? Yeah, i’m not sure maybe they’ll add something like that. I guess at the moment you should pick something close and i’m not really even sure what that would be or there is a category for other i guess that might be yeah, there is another until they until they get to the point where they add something related to the charity community. Yeah, there is a little controversy about about pinterest and this came up in the small non-profit sorry, the fundchat that i was in last week o r this past wednesday and again the leader of fundchat, the host of fundchat is going to be a guest next week. We’re going to talk about what what he does in his in his twitter chat on dh that’s, the issues related to copyright use and pinning and reap and repenting are you have you seen anything about that? I haven’t seen comments on that, particularly that it doesn’t surprise me because i know that, uh, twitter not a flicker has been going to some some pains about use of their material on maybe it was in interest the know there are different writes that can be assigned to different photos post on two places, specifically quicker and there’s a pretty tough to understand no one can i use this? Can i use it to promote something of my own? Can i modify it? And it may not be obvious what the rights are for the for the photo that you selected so so i could see were pulling stuff from other places could be even more difficult, teo, to regulate and then as you as you repent, something that someone else pinned, you know, there could be a question of your liability for that sure repenting, but then if you’re not repenting then there’s no social that could be any social in the social media platform if if you can’t repent when other people pin, i agree, and i think, you know, this leads to a whole larger conversation about who owns content and how what is the fair use of that content in other sites and as a as a journalist, writer editor that’s a very active conversation with folks that i deal with, what is content aggregation, and should we be doing it, or should we not? And to what extent? So i think that this is one small subset of that there has to be more with images, that kind of thing, but it’s over altum big deal in the record companies on wednesday in that fundchat on twitter, i want credit mary-jo callin see a j a n e for pointing out really, that if if there isn’t repenting, then there isn’t much social in the platform, and also there was an article on this subject at craft test dummies dot com craft, c r a f t test dummies dot coms on march second article and my thanks to n p tech alley for for pointing out that that article from that from that twitter chat like other there’s rocky again, like other social media platforms, this one has to be kept upright if we get started, innit? Yeah, exactly. And there’s, there comes a point at which on organization and certainly a person is going to say enough, i’ve had enough of this stuff and what’s going to fall off the edge, and i think that’s something that we’re all going to have to deal with as these things continue to emerge as things become popular and so the others fall off the edge. I don’t know the answer, but i know that the answer is that we don’t have limited amounts of time in our days and especially no work days and how many times you want to be sitting in front of a computer, clicking and dragging and pinning, yeah, and for small and midsize shops, i mean, how much staff time can they devote to these? In fact, one of the final question i asked pre show listeners is your non-profit using pinterest and eighty three percent said no, uh, the other seventeen, the other seventeen percent were sort of yes, you know we’re into it fully. That was very small in about four percent that about thirteen percent said they have done it a little bit, but eighty three percent, not into it. It has become a matter of priorities. Ation it does. And as with all the social media kinds of products and processes, uh, what is the return? What you’re getting for your efforts? Is that a small shop? You know, the effort is probably one person taking some time out of the day in large organizations. For instance, coca cola, uh, that is has probably the largest facebook page following, uh, i think it is the largest, by the way, um, they they spent significant actual money and managing that and making sure that they are top of mind. But if you ask anyone, uh, and this i think there are becoming some tools for this, if you ask, what are you actually getting for? What if you spend a thousand dollars a year making two thousand dollars? The answer is, i have no idea now, and, uh, you know, as these begin to proliferate even further it’s going to be more of a question. We have to leave it there. Scott regulars are regular tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news at n p tech news. Dot com scott, thank you very much. Thanks, durney take care. We’ll talk to you next month. Thank you, and i also i also want to thank lori krauz for coming into the studio and also the folks who participated in fundchat last week on brendan kinney, who hosts that and he’ll be a guest next week, which is the transition into next week. We’ll be talking about twitter talk i’ll have to twitter chat hosts pamela grow of small non-profit chat and brendan of fundez chat to tell us how these one hundred forty character conversations can help your non-profit and build your professional network, then maria simple, our prospect research contributor on push technology, google alerts and other services that send targeted information to you regularly special thanks to our social media manager, regina walton, she got me promoted and and prepared to be part of fundchat and also outstanding survey results today, the largest ah largest group of respondents we’ve ever had and also for that getting that last minute media bistro article to me on pinterest keep up with what’s coming up sign up farming satur email alerts on the facebook page. Like a son facebook like that page, you can listen live our archive for the archive goto itunes subscribe at non-profit radio dot net on twitter you can follow me and use the show’s hashtag non-profit radio the following is a public service announcement because i have a soft spot in my heart for belmar, new jersey from when i was a kid in my grand parents used to take me there and i still go do you need dental care? Visit the offices of hannah pole dental care in belmar on friday, march twenty third to receive free dental services. Everybody is welcome regardless of where you’re from, care will be offered on a first come, first served basis. For information, call seven three two six eight one twenty to twenty five and that is organized by dentistry from the heart. The show is sponsored by g grayson company. Are you worried about the rising cost of rent for your organization? Do you need a plan for real estate that you’re non-profit owns georgia? 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