Tag Archives: customer loyalty

Nonprofit Radio for December 14, 2020: Zombie Loyalists

My Guest:

Peter Shankman: Zombie Loyalists
Peter Shankman is a 5x best selling author, entrepreneur and corporate keynote speaker. His book “Zombie Loyalists” focuses on customer service; creating rabid fans who do your social media, marketing and PR for you. This is our annual rebroadcast of a show with very smart ideas for you to think about over the holidays. It originally aired December 19, 2014.


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[00:02:38.04] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with tinny accrue if you made me itchy with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Zombie Loyalists. Peter Shankman is a five times best selling author, entrepreneur and corporate keynote speaker. His book, Zombie Loyalists, focuses on customer service, creating rabid fans who do your social media marketing and PR for you. This is our annual rebroadcast of a show with very smart ideas for you to think about over the holidays. It originally aired December 19th 2014 on tony Steak to my December Webinar were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o and by dot drives Prospect to donor simplified tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant for a free demo and a free month. Here is Zombie loyalists. Peter Shankman is a well known and often quoted social media marketing and public relations strategist. His latest book is Zombie Loyalists. He wants you to create rabid fans who do your social media marketing and PR for you. He’s got super ideas and very valuable stories. I’m very glad Peter Shankman is with me in the studio. He’s the founder of Harrow. Help, a reporter out connecting journalists with sources in under two years from starting it in his apartment. Horror was sending out 1500 media queries a week to more than 200,000 sources worldwide. It was acquired by Vocus in 2010. He’s the founder and CEO of the Geek Factory AH, boutique social media marketing and PR strategy firm in New York City. Peter is on NASA’s civilian Advisory Council. You’ll find him at shankman dot com, and he’s at Peter Shankman on Twitter. His latest book is Zombie Loyalists, using great service to create rabid fans. I’m very glad his book brings him to non profit radio and studio Welcome, Peter. Good to be here, tony. Thanks pleasure. You live on the West Side of Manhattan and you and you, there’s a There’s a pretty well known five star steakhouse. Uh, I’ll get Wolfgang’s not far from you, but you pass it to go to a different steakhouse. Correct? Morton’s correct. Why is

[00:04:37.04] spk_0:
that more. I am a zombie loyalist to Morton’s. What does that mean? I love the service, the attention to detail, the quality, the the sort of where everyone knows my name mentality. When I walk into that morning or any Morton’s around the world, they have a tremendous, uh, customer relationship management system. When I call one number, uh, in New York or anywhere in the world, it they know who I am by my cell phone. And, uh, I’m treated with just, you know, phenomenal, uh, happiness. Thio here, from me and my wishes are granted is aware I we have a happy hour holiday party coming up at Morton’s next couple of days and, uh, you know, as always, I forgot toe calling, make a reservation. And, you know, I called yesterday and said, Hey, I need a, uh, a chance to get a reservation for seven people. Um, you know, Thursday night at 7 p.m. Which is, you know, the week of holiday party. And they looked and they said, Oh, well, and then I guess their computer system kicked in it. Of course, Mr Shankar, not a problem at all. We’ll get that for you. right away. You know, we’ll have a great booth for you to do that. Um, you know, and we’ll tell us names that people attending and you know, you don’t know, you know, they’re gonna have specialized menus for them and their names on they Really? They have, ah, really high level of service that they provide, Not just to me. That’s the beauty of it. You know, it is one thing, everybody. Yeah, it’s one thing that they just provided to me, but they do that for everyone. And that is huge because, you know, being able to call when a normal person makes reservation. And not that I’m special. I’m actually rather abnormal. But when a normal person makes a reservation and says, uh, no, Martin says Okay. Great. Are you celebrating anything? So yes, my wife’s birthday. Always ask anyone who calls right. He said, Oh, you know what tze my wife’s birthday. Great. What’s her name? Her name is Megan. Whatever. And you you go in and they and you sit down on the on the on the menu. It says Happy birthday. Make it. And then Megan, whoever she happens to be will spend the next 45 minutes. You know, taking 50 selfies with her menu and that’ll go online. And when her friends, you know, want that same experience, they’re gonna go.

[00:04:52.44] spk_1:
Morton’s you say in the book, you get the customers you want by being beyond awesome to the customers you have. And that’s why I want to start with that Morton’s story, which is in the middle of the book. But they do it for everybody, and then they have the VIPs as well. And there’s the terrific story of you tweeting tell that story. That’s a good story. It’s a good story. I love stories.

[00:07:21.94] spk_0:
I was flying home from a day trip to Florida and was exhausted and starving, and you’re flying down down at 6 a.m. Lunch meeting flew back the same day. You know, one of those one of those days, and, uh, I jokingly said the tweet Hey, Morton’s, why don’t you meet me at Newark Airport when I land with a porterhouse in two hours? Ha ha ha ha ha. Um, you know, I said it the same way you say, Hey, winter, please stop snowing things like that on I landed, uh, find my driver. And so next my driver is a is ah, waiter in a tuxedo with Morton’s bag. They saw my tweet. They put it together. They managed to bring me a a steak and, you know, as great of a story is it Is it za great stunt and it’s a great story and it wasn’t a stage, and it was completely amazing. But, you know, that’s not what they’re about. They’re not about delivering stakes airports. They’re about making a great meal for you and treating you like world when you come in. And you know, if they just did that, if they just delivered the state of the airport, but their quality and service sucked, you know, it wouldn’t be a story, you know, Look what they did for Peter. But, you know, my steaks cold, you know? So what it really comes down to is the fact they do treat everyone like kings, and that’s that’s really, really important, because what winds up happening, you have a great experience importance. And then you tell the world you know Oh, yeah, great dinner last night. That was amazing. I would totally there again. And as we move to this new world where, you know, review sites are going away, and I don’t I don’t need to go to yelp reviews from people I don’t know. You know, if they’re shills or whatever the case may be, I don’t know. Or trip Advisor. Same thing. I want people in my network quite trust and and people in their network who they trust by default, I trust. So that’s gonna be that’s already happening automatically. You know, when I when I land in L. A and I type in steakhouse, uh, you know, not me. I know I know where the steakhouse. But if someone types into Google Maps or Facebook Steak House in Los Angeles, you know they’ll see all the steak houses on a Google map. But if any of their friends have been to any of them, they’ll see those first. And if they had a good experience, only if the sentiment is positive, will they see those first. And that’s pretty amazing, because if you think about that, the simple act of tweeting out a photo Oh, my God, thanks so much more in love. This that’s positive sentiment. The network knows that, and so if you’re looking for a steakhouse, you know, And your friend six months ago, I had that experience. Oh, my God. Amazing state. This is a great place. The sentiments gonna be there and and And the network will know that network will show you that steakhouse because you trust

[00:07:29.04] spk_1:
your friend. And this is where we start to cultivate zombie loyalists. Exact this through this awesome customer service of the customers. You You have same or about zombies.

[00:07:36.88] spk_0:
Yeah. I mean, you have so many companies out there who are trying to get the next greatest customer. You know, you see all the ads, you know, the Facebook post, you know where at 990 followers are 10. Our 1/1000 follower gets a free gift. Well, that’s kind of saying screw you to the original 990 followers who you had who were there since the beginning. We don’t care about you. We want that 1000. You know, that’s not cool. Um, the the companies who see their numbers rise and you see their fans increase and their their, uh, revenues go up are the ones who are nice to the customers they have. Hey, you know, customer 8 52. It was really nice of you to join us a couple months ago. How? You know, how are you? We noticed that you posted on something about a, uh you know, your car broke down. Well, you know, we’re not in the car business, but, you know, your your two blocks from our our closest, uh, outlet or whatever. And you know, once you if you if you need to come in, have a cup of coffee will use the phone, Whatever. You know, those little things that you could do that that that really focus on the customers you have and make the customers. You have the ones where the zombies who tell other customers how great you are.

[00:08:38.98] spk_1:
And this all applies to non profit, certainly as well. The question,

[00:09:16.14] spk_0:
but even more so, I mean, if you you know, non profit, they’re constantly worried about how toe make the most value out of the dollar and how to keep the dollar stretching further and further. And you know, you have this massive audience who has come to you who is a non profit. Who said to you, You know we want to help here we are volunteering our help and just simply treating them with the thanks that they deserve. Not just a simple Hey, thanks for joining, but actually reaching out, asking what they want, asking how they like to get their information. Things like that will greatly increase your donations as well as, um, making them go out and tell everyone how awesome you are, letting them do your PR for you.

[00:09:20.28] spk_1:
And that’s what a zombie loyalist does. And this is for this. Could be donors could be volunteers to the organization who aren’t able to give a lot. But giving time is enormous.

[00:09:47.22] spk_0:
And if you know if they have such a great time doing it, they’ll bring friends. You know, zombies have one purpose in life. Really. Zombies have one purpose in life that’s to feed. It doesn’t matter how the Mets are doing it doesn’t matter, you know, because chance that they lost anyway. But it doesn’t matter how how anyone’s doing, you know, or what’s going on in the world. It doesn’t matter what matters with zombies where they get their next meal because they feed and they have to infect more people. Otherwise, they will die zombie loyalists of the same thing. All they have to do is make sure that their customers, they tell the world we all have that friend who does it. You know, that one friend who eat nothing but the olive garden because oh, my God’s greatest breadsticks everywhere, you know and they will drag your ass the olive garden every single time they get that chance. That’s a zombie

[00:11:19.84] spk_1:
loyalist, and you want them to do that for your non profit. And there’s a big advantage to being a smaller, smaller organization. You could be so much more high touch, and we’re gonna talk about all that. We’ve got the full hour with Peter Shankman. Got to go away for a couple minutes, stay with us. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. They have relationships with journalists. This is what you’re looking for when you get a PR firm to do your public relations in your media. For you. They’ve got the relationships because of the trust that they’ve built with reporters and editors at places like The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, CBS Market Watch, The Chronicle of Philanthropy. You get the first call When these outlets are looking for sourcing on charitable giving a non profit trends on philanthropy they’re calling Turn to turn two refers to you because you’re their client. You get first crack at first class media the right turn hyphen two dot c o it tze your life No, you check him out. Turn hyphen two dot c o Now back to zombie loyalists Peter, it doesn’t take much Thio stand out in the customer service world doesn’t

[00:11:24.59] spk_0:
it really doesn’t you know? And the reason for that is because we expect to be treated like crap. You know, if you think about that, I I I love this example. Whenever I give speeches, I asked I asked everyone the audience and, like who here has had a great flight recently, like at least one personal raise their hand. I’m like, Okay, what made it great and without failure. And I said, Well, we took off on time and I had the seat I was assigned and we landed on time and like so you paid for a service. They delivered that service and you’re over the freaking moon about it. Like that’s the state that we have become, You know, that’s how bad customer service has been that you are just beyond thrilled that they did exactly what they said they were gonna do with nothing more.

[00:11:57.85] spk_1:
Less than 20 minutes in the post office line. Exactly. And I’m ecstatic.

[00:12:16.74] spk_0:
Exactly. You know, it’s so we really are at a point where we only have to be one level above crap. I’m not even asking my client to be good. Just one level of crap. You know, if everyone else’s crap and you’re one level above that, you’re gonna win. It’s my favorite. One of my favorite jokes wth E. Two guys were out in the woods hunting in the woods, and we’re just jogging. It was the first one sees. Ah, bear. And they see these bearings. Bears raised up. He’s about to strike, and the first one reaches down and tightens up his laces on his running shoes And say What? The studio Don’t be. Don’t be an idiot. You cannot run a bear. And guess what? I don’t need to. You need to outrun you. You know, I love that joke because it’s it’s so true. That’s the concept. You know, all you have to do is be just a little bit better than everyone else and you’ll win the whole ball

[00:12:38.29] spk_1:
game. Now we have to set some things up internally in orderto have the structure in place. No question about it to create these. The zombie loyalists.

[00:16:01.34] spk_0:
Yeah. I mean, you haven’t. You have, ah, company where the majority of people in your company are afraid to do anything outside the norm, you know? I mean, look at look at the cell phone company. You know, they call them cause you have a problem, right? 18 T or T mobile. You call them, you have a problem. They’re actually the customer service people that handle your collar, actually judged and rewarded based on how quickly they can get you off the phone. You know, not on whether or not they fix your problem, but how fast they could get you off the phone. Which means how many more calls again? Remember, I worked when I worked in America Online. We all had to do a day of customer service every month just to see what it was like. That was a brilliant idea. But you know, again, it’s this. It was a system called Vantive where you’d sign on and as soon as you signed on, If you weren’t a call, you know, that was tacked against you. If you were in a call and and it went over a certain amount of time, that was tacked against you. So the decks were stacked not in the favor of the customer. There are some companies out there who allow their customer service employees to simply be smarter about what they dio and do whatever it is they need to do to fix the problem. Um, you know, my favorite story about this Verizon Wireless I went overseas was in Dubai, and I landed to buy and I turned on my phone. I had gotten global roaming on my phone, which, you know, 20 bucks for every 100 megabytes. Okay, so I land and I turn on my phone and it says, um, like before I’m even off the plane. I get a text that you’ve used $200 in roaming charges. I’m like, What the hell? You know, $300 by the time I get off the plane like something’s up here. So I called Verizon on a nice guy answer the phone and Oh, yes. I mean, the first thing that was Yes, or you do have global roaming, but it doesn’t work in Dubai, E. Okay, well, that’s not really global. That’s more hemispherical. Roaming, I think, is the issue. And so he, uh I said, Well, look, I’m gonna be here for a week. I said, you know what? You have my credit card on file. Build me like you, like 1000 bucks and just let me have the phone for, like, the week and, you know, you know, 500 bucks I won’t go over two gigs, but it just do something for me. Sorry, sir. I’m not authorized to do that. Um, you can. I’m like, So what do I have? He’s like, Well, you can pay $20.48 a megabyte. I’m like, I’m sorry. Seriously, which equates essentially to I will be charged $20.48 seconds. $20. 48 cents. For every I think the time for every four seconds of the video Gangnam style if I decided to watch on my phone like this is pretty ridiculous. So I simply hung up, hung up on Verizon. I went down the street to the Dubai. The Mall of the Emirates, which is the largest mall in the world, has a freaking ski slope in it. And I’m not joking. It has a ski slope in the small, and, uh, went to one of the 86 different electronic stores in this mall, bought an international unlocked version of the same exact cell phone. I have went next door to the local SIM card store, but a SIM card that gave me 20 gigabytes of data and 1000 minutes of talk for $40. I then put that in my phone because it’s an android phone. I simply typed in my user name and password for Google and everything imported. And Verizon did not get a penny on that trip. Um, how easy it would have been for Verizon to say. Okay, you know what? We’ll cut your brake. Uh, they still make a lot of money off me. And I would tell the world how great Verizon was to work with and how wonderful how helpful they were. Instead, they guaranteed that I will never that they will never make a penny from any international trip and I take what, 15 of them a year. Because now my cell phone, um, by international cell phone that I bought all I do is pop out the SIM card in my land wherever I am putting a new SIM card. So

[00:16:07.18] spk_1:
you’re speaking and writing and telling bad story, of course.

[00:17:10.14] spk_0:
And and every time I tell the story about Verizon, I make it a little worse. Apparently, Verizon, uh, tests out the durability of their phone by throwing them a kittens. I read this and then it must be true, you know? So not necessarily. But you know, the concept that that all they had to do, all they had to do was in power mark customer service. And it wasn’t Mark’s fault. Mark was a really nice guy, but he was not allowed to do that. He would’ve gotten fired if he tried to do a deal like that for May. And so it’s this concept, you know. And the funny thing is, it comes down to if you really want to go down the road in terms of a public company like Verizon of where the issue is, you could even trace it to fiduciary responsibility because the fiduciary responsibility of any company CEO all the way down to the employee is to make money for the shareholders. Okay, thats future responsibility means by not allowing me non allowing Mark the customer service agent to to help me on and take a different tack. He’s actually losing money. Too many CEOs think about the next quarter. Oh, we have to make our numbers. Next quarter, I’m fired companies in other countries. 10, I think the next quarter century. And they make a much bigger difference because they think, Okay, what can we do now that will have impact in the next 5, 10, 15 years, you know, and really implement the revenue that we have and an augment and companies Americans don’t think about them. That’s a big problem.

[00:17:24.84] spk_1:
I buy a product line, has a lot of natural and recycled materials. Seventh generation and their, um, their tagline is that in in our every decision, we must consider the impact on the next seven generations. It comes from an American Indian. It’s a

[00:17:41.70] spk_0:
great it’s a great line. I mean, just think about how much money would have made for me in the past three years just to my overseas,

[00:17:47.62] spk_1:
you’d be telling a story about like them about Morten like the one

[00:18:11.94] spk_0:
look, a lot of people listen to me and they went for a time when you Googled roaming charges variety when you Google, Verizon roaming charges. My story about, however, how I saved all this money because came up first because I did the math. And if I had not called Mark and bought my own cell phone and done this, I would have come home with $31,000 cell phone bill and your damn authorizing wouldn’t know anything about that. There have been up to bad. Sorry. Should read the fine print

[00:18:16.22] spk_1:
and plus the employee who sold you the quote International plan, right? I’m sure you told her. She said, Where you

[00:18:23.05] spk_0:
going? I’m going to Canada and I’m going to Dubai. I’m assuming she didn’t know where to buy Waas. She probably it was near Canada, but long story short couldn’t use

[00:18:30.26] spk_1:
it. Alright, so employees have to be empowered. There has to be we have to be, but changing Ah thinking too. I mean, the customer has to come first. Donor, the volunteer

[00:18:51.94] spk_0:
don’t volunteer. You get at the end of the day, where’s your money coming from? I don’t care if you’re non profit or Fortune 100 where your money coming from, you know? And if you we see it happening over and over again, we’re seeing what you’re seeing right now. Play out every single day with company uber, um, and uber. It’s so funny cause uber makes you know their value of $40 billion right now. But that doesn’t mean anything that doesn’t mean anything. If people are running away in droves, which people are, there’s a whole delete your uber app movement. People are Oh God, yeah, people are leaving the problem. Well, it’s several number one that uber is run by a bunch of guys who honor the bro code. The company was actually started by a guy who, on business in business insider, said he started the company to get laid. Um, his goal was to always have a black car. When he was leaving a restaurant, uh, to impress the girl he was with that he came out and said that and you see that culture run rampant throughout uber from their god mode where they can see they actually created. There was, uh, don’t read this my business insider as well. There’s a they created a hookup page that showed or or or walk of shame Page that showed where, uh, women were leaving certain apartments, like on weekends going or leaving certain place on weekends, going back to their home. Um, it was obvious that they, you know, met some guy like they did that. And then, of course, just their whole surge pricing mentality, which is, you know, two days ago there was a couple days. There was, uh, the terrorists of the figures, a terrorist attack in Sydney at that at that bakery and Sydney, uh, uber and Sydney instituted surge pricing for people trying to get out of harm’s way, you know, and they later refund it always a computer glitch. You know, I’m sorry. You have a stop button, and you can when you see something happening like that, this has to be someone in the office, because you know what? Not cool. We’re gonna take care of that and and hit the stop button. And it was Yeah. Bad tons and tons and tons of bad publicity. you know, I was having an argument with one of my Facebook page facebook com slash Peter Shankman Because they said, Oh, you know, Eh? So what they don’t they don’t turn surge pricing, don’t have enough cabs there, and you know, people can’t get home. I said I’m pretty sure that the Onley come, but I’m sure that no one had cab companies there. I’m sure that there wasn’t anyone who had enough cars, their private cabs, uber’s whatever. Yet the Onley stories I read about companies screwing up during the event where uber not Joe’s Sydney cab company. You know, I didn’t see him screwing up because he didn’t turn on surge pricing. You gotta You gotta respect your customer. You have to,

[00:20:55.14] spk_1:
as we’re training for that, then not only, uh, trying to change their mind ships. Well, in trying to change that mindset, rewards for for customer, for employees that do take, go, do go the extra

[00:22:04.04] spk_0:
mile. Well, first of all, if you give the employees the ability to do it to go the extra mile and I understand they won’t get fired, you’re not gonna get into I always tell every one of my employees. You’re never gonna get in trouble for spending a little extra money to try and keep customer happy. You’ll get fired for not doing it. You know you get fired for not for seeing an opportunity to fix someone and not taking it, not doing everything that you could know. Ritz Carlton is famous for that. Ritz Carlton hires people not because whether they could fold the bed sheet but for how well they understand people. Because in Ritz Carlton’s mind, it’s much more important to be a people person and be able to be empathetic and that it’s such a key word. Empathy is just so so sorely lacking. You know how much you’ve called customer service? Yeah, you know, I have to have to change my flight. My, my my aunt just died. I really need the Oh, okay, great. That’s $300 e. Just wanna go an hour earlier. You know, you show up at the airport, your bag is overweight by half a pound. That’s $75. I just can you just cut me some slack note, You know, so empathy and giving the custom, giving the employees the ability to understand that the customer that sometimes you can make exceptions and it is okay to make changes.

[00:22:11.22] spk_1:
And this is where a smaller organization has huge advantage. It’s easier to change.

[00:22:21.54] spk_0:
That’s what kills me. You know, I go to these try to frequent small businesses when I can. I go to some of these small businesses and they won’t they they act like large businesses, you know, in the respect that they don’t have ah, like

[00:22:27.68] spk_1:
they wanna be respected almost. They don’t have,

[00:23:06.44] spk_0:
like, a 6 6000 page code that they have to adhere. Thio. They can simply, uh, do something on the fly. And yet for whatever reason, they won’t do it. And it’s the most frustrating thing. Like, guys, you’re acting like a big. You’re acting like Mega Lo Mart here, you know, and you’re not Mega Lo Mart, and you’re just Joe’s house of stationary, whatever it is and you know, not be able to help me. You’re pretty much killing yourself because you don’t have 85 billion customers that come through the door after me, you know, But I have a pretty big network and for small business to get killed socially as social becomes more and more what? How we communicate, you know, it’s just craziness.

[00:23:16.04] spk_1:
It’s, you know, we’re pretty much in the world. I think we’re something almost hasn’t happened to you unless unless you share

[00:24:46.44] spk_0:
it. E joked that, you know, if I can take itself, it was I really there. Um but it’s true, You know, we do live in a world where you know, I remember God 10 years ago. Maybe not even not even 10 years ago. I was one of the first people have a phone in my camera, you know? And it was like, That’s what I said. Yeah, Camera on my phone. Right. And it was like a, I think a 0.8 megapixel. You know, it looked like I was taking a picture with a potato, but it was It was this. I remember it was 2002 and I was in Chase Bank and there was a woman arguing with the teller, and I pulled out my video. You know, it was the crappiest video you ever seen, but I pulled it out and I said, You know, I started recording and the woman behind the counter one behind the counter was going, The woman behind the counter was talking to the customer, saying, You do not speak to me that way. You get out of this bank right now and the customers saying, I just wanted my balance and you and your manager comes up and I get the whole thing on my little crappy three g Motorola for phone And I remember I posted online and Gawker picks it up. I gave him E mail that, you know, my headline I put on my block was, you know, Chase where the right relationship is that. Go after yourself, you know? And it was It just got tons of play. And then Gawker picked it up. It went everywhere, totally viral. So it’s one of those things you just like, you know, this is in 2002. It’s 12 years later. How the hell can you assume that nothing is being that you’re not being recorded? You know, I I e remember blowing I sneezed a couple weeks ago and, uh ah, that to get too graphic here. But e needed a tissue big time after I was done seizing E remember going through my pockets looking for desperate looking for a tissue. I’m looking around making sure it wasn’t on camera somewhere that someone didn’t grab that. Give me the next viral sensation. You know, e wait. God, I went to high school with a block from here, right? If the amount of cameras that Aaron Lincoln center today were there in 1989 1990 be having this conversation entirely, I’d be having this conversation behind. Bulletproof on. Yeah, so you know, you’d be you’d be talking to. You have to get special clearance to visit me. Probably the Supermax in Colorado. So, you know, it’s it’s one of those things that you just like. My kid who’s almost two years old now is gonna grow up with absolutely no expectation of privacy the same way that we grew up with an expectation of privacy. And I’m thankful for that because she will make a lot less stupid moves, You know, I mean, God, the things that I thought, you know, in in high school I thought the stupidest in the world. Thank God there wasn’t a way for me to broadcast that to the world in real time. Jesus. Thank God

[00:25:45.54] spk_1:
creating these zombie loyalists and we’ve got to change some. We’ve got to change culture and thinking and reward systems. Let’s go back to the cost of all this. Why is this a better investment than trying to just focus on new donors?

[00:26:38.84] spk_0:
I love I love this analogy and I’ll give you a fun analogy. Let’s have in a bar. And there’s a very cute girl across the across the park and she catches my eye catcher. I go up to her Go. You know you don’t know me e m amazing in bed. You should finish your drink right now. Come home. Let’s get it on. I’m gonna impress. I’m that good Chancellor. She’s gonna throw a drink in my face. Go back talking to her friends. I’ve done a lot of research on this. That’s probably now, let’s assume let’s assume an alternate world. I’m sitting there on my phone. I’m just playing like, you know, some no words with friends like that, and she’s over there talking to friends, one of her friends. Holy crap. That’s Peter. I think that’s Peter Shankman. I’ve heard him speak. He’s in this fantasy world. I’m single, too. E think he’s single and he’s having this amazing guy e No, he has a cat. You have a cat. You should totally go talk to him. The very least. I’m getting this girl’s number. That’s PR. Okay. And what do we trust? More me with my, you know, fancy suit collar going over the seventies. Leaders do. Hi. I’m amazing. Or the girl saying, Hey, we’ve been friends since third grade. I’m recommending that guy. You should trust me on this. You know, obviously that that’s where, uh, good customer service comes into play. And that’s where corporate culture comes into play. Because if I have a great experience with you and at your company, I’m gonna tell my friend when they’re looking and I will stake my personal reputation on it. There’s nothing stronger

[00:27:18.22] spk_1:
than that. And these are the people who want to breed

[00:27:21.10] spk_0:
as stronger than advertising stronger the marketing,

[00:27:23.04] spk_1:
and they’re gonna share. People want to share

[00:27:48.24] spk_0:
the think about the Internet runs on two things. It runs on drama. Drama and bragging are bragging and drama. And if you if you need any proof of that, you know, go and look at all the hashtags with crap that’s happened. You know, bad customer service, bad, whatever. But then look at all the good Hashtags. You know, when our flights delayed for three hours and we lose our seat Oh, my God. Hate this airline. Worst airline ever. But when we get upgraded right hashtag first class bitches or whatever it is, you know something stupid like that on the whole, because we love to share its on Lee a great experience if we could tell the world. And it’s only a bad experience if we could make everyone else miserable about it as

[00:29:35.94] spk_1:
well. It’s time for tony Stick to I am hosting a new free webinar plan to giving five minute marketing hosting my own. As I said last week, this feels very good. No shackles, no, not being shackled and drawn by by those others who host no grateful to the others who host me and we’ll be hosting in 2021 lots more webinars coming up. I’m grateful to them, but I’m doing my own too. So no more shackled and drawn. Um, and we’re doing this in, uh, this this month, December. It’s on Thursday, December 17th, 3 p.m. Eastern. It’s a quick shot another 1 45 minutes only on planned giving marketing. How to promote the idea of planned gift to your prospects? Who are the best prospects to be promoting to? What’s the message you should be sending to them and how do you get it out? Multi channel. I’m gonna do this all in 45 minutes, plus time for questions, which is my favorite. I have fun with the questions, tells me where you’re focused. I like the question. So we’re doing all this. Thursday, December 17th you register at plan to giving accelerator dot com slash webinar. That is tony. Stick to Let’s Let’s take two of 2020. As a matter of fact, come to think of it now, back to our annual rebroadcast of zombie loyalists. Peter, you have a golden rule of social media that that a good number of customers like to share and people are gonna keep doing it.

[00:29:41.14] spk_0:
People will always share again. It goes back to the concept that if you create great stuff, people want to share it because people like to be associated with good things. If you create bad stuff and buy stuff I could meet. I mean anything from, like a bad experience. Too bad content. People not only won’t share that, but we go out of their way to tell people how terrible you were. Um, you know, how many times have you seen companies fail horribly? Uh, you know, after major disasters when companies were tweeting, um, you know, completely unrelated things. Uh, after after a random school shooting? Uh, no, it was after the shooting at the theater in Aurora, Colorado. The dark knight, Um, the tweets. Hey, shooters, what’s your plans for this weekend? You know, and I’m just going, really, you know, but And of course, the thing was, the thing was retweeted millions of times, you know, with a sort of shame on the A so way we’re a society. Like I said earlier, that loves to share when when great things happen West, but loves to tell the world when we’re miserable because we’re only truly miserable, we make everyone else miserable. Um, it’s funny you mentioned the generosity Siri’s, uh, the one of my favorite stories, which goes to sort of a bigger picture of culture and somehow when you’re just doing your job, because that’s what you’re supposed to do your job, but you don’t realize there are ways to get around that. I listened to your podcast, among others, When I’m running through Central Park on Dhe, more like if you know my body type more like lumbering through Central Park. But I get there. I’m an iron man. I e have that. And so I go to Central Park and it’s super early in the morning cause I usually have meetings and I don’t run fast. Um, I run like I really don’t run fast, but But as I’m running,

[00:31:20.03] spk_1:
But let’s give you the credit that you have done a bunch of iron Man,

[00:33:04.29] spk_0:
I have e Do I do it? You know, my mother tells me that I just have very poor judgment in terms of what sports I should do. But, um, on the flip side, I’m also a skydiver, which is with my weight is awesome. I fall better than anyone. Um, but so I’m running through Central Park. Last year it was February, February of of 13 and 14 of this year, and it was probably about 4 45 in the morning because I had an 80 a meeting. I had to do 10 miles. So 45 in the morning, I’m running about but around 96 79th 80th Street on the east side, in the park and a cop pulls me over and I said, What are you doing? I look at him, you know, I’m wearing black spandex. I have a hat. It’s five degrees that only what? Playing checkers. You know what you know. And like I’m running and he’s like, Okay, can you stop running? I’m like, Okay, he’s like in the parks closed like No, it’s not like I’m in it. Look around. There are other people who know part does nobody else exam like he’s like, Do you have any idea on you? I’m like, No, I’m running. He goes, What? Your name? I’m like, seriously, like I’m writing you a summons. I’m like you’re writing me a summons for exercising for for I just want to clarify that you’re writing music. And sure enough that I wrote me a summons for exercising in Central Park before it opened. The charge was breaking the violating curfew. You know, I’m like I get the concept of the curfew is to keep people out after 2 a.m. It’s not to prevent them going in early toe exercise to be healthy. I’m like, I’m not carrying, you know, a six pack. I’m not drinking a big gulp. I’m not smoking. I’m you know, I’m doing something healthy, and you’re writing me a summons for it. Um, I said, you know, I’m gonna have a field day with this. I said I I kind of have some fathers. It’s gonna be a lot of fun. I’m not. You know, I know you’re just doing your job serve even though you have the discretion not to. But Okay, so I go back home, take a picture of my ticket, I email it to a friend of mine in New York Post. You know, front page, New York Post next day. No running from this ticket, you know, for great New York Times covered it. Runners world covered it. I mean, I went everywhere. Gawker covered it, you know, And And my whole thing was just like, Dude, you have discretion. Look at me. You know, I’m not I’m not even going super fast, for God’s sake. I’m just I’m just trying to exercise here, you know, And of course, I went to court and I beat it. But how much money that cost the city for me to go to court? Fight this thing? You know, every employee you have to give your employees the power of discretion, the power of empathy to make their own decisions. If you go by the book, bad things will happen.

[00:33:32.16] spk_1:
And again, small shops so much easier to dio flatline flat organizations.

[00:35:06.94] spk_0:
I work with a non profit, um, animal rescue non profit. A friend of mine was a skydiver and shot him out. No, I can’t. There’s nothing but But there’s a friend of mine was a skydiver and she was killed in a base jump several years ago. And her husband asked to donate in her memory to this non profit. So I said, I’m a check. And about three months later, I get a coffee table book in the mail and I was living by myself the time I didn’t own a coffee table. It was more money to spend on my flat screen, and I remember I call I look at this coffee table book I throw, I throw in the corner. I look at it over next couple days. It pisses me off That How much? How much of my donation did it cost to print? Melon produced this book to me, and so I called them up. Well, sir, we believe most of our donors were older and profit. Prefer to get ah, print version as opposed to, like, digital, You know where they throw it away. And like, you don’t throw digitally, but Okay, um, I’m like, So So you’ve asked your you’ve done surveys and you’ve asked, you know, we just assume that most of our older I’m like, Okay, so I open my mouth lineup joining the board and spent the next year interviewing customers, interviewing every current and past donor about how they like to get their information and shock of shocks. 94% said online. And so over the following year, we launched Facebook page, Twitter page, uh, Flickr account, YouTube, everything. PS the following year. For that, donations went up 37% in one year in that economy is right around 0809 Donations went up 37% in one year and they saved over $500,000 in printing mammalian reproduction. Imagine going to your boss, Boss. Revenues up 37%. And we saved a half million dollars you’re talking about. You’re really good beer. You know, All they had to do was listen to their audience, be relevant to the audience you have, and they will tell you what they want.

[00:35:13.37] spk_1:
We have tons of tools for segmentation. My God, you gotta listen to what segment? That you want. People wanna be in.

[00:35:52.24] spk_0:
You know, someone? Someone asked me today. Show what? What’s the best and knew nothing about their company. What’s the best, uh, social media outlet for me to be on? Should be on Twitter. Should be on Facebook. I said, I’ll answer that question. If you can answer this This this question to ask you is my favorite type of cheese Gouda or the number six. They said I understand. That’s not a real question. Like neither is yours. Like I can’t tell you where the best place to be your audience can. I said, go ask your audience. Believe me, they will tell you there’s a gas station in the Midwest. Come and go. I just love the name K u m and G. O. And their tag tagline is always something extra e. Come on, the jokes just write themselves, for God’s sake. But

[00:35:58.40] spk_1:
they don’t take themselves to say, Really love that coming just knowing the name of the company

[00:36:12.13] spk_0:
gas station. And I remember there in Iowa and I went to visit a friend in Iowa and I was like, You got to get a photo of in front of come and go inside. And the beauty of this is that some of their employees actually look at their customers when they’re on their phones and stories go, you know, what do you use Twitter or Facebook? And they say, Oh, I use that and they record that information and they know it. God, customers will give you so much info if you just ask them, because then they feel invested. They feel invest in your company. They feel like they that you took the time to listen to their non profit request. So their their their questions and they feel like they’re I did it for Harrow. Every month. We have a one question Harrow survey, you know, harrowing question survey, and it was like 1000 people respond and I’d spend the entire weekend emailing Everyone responded, thanking them personally took my entire weekend. But it was great because it would wind up happening. Is that you know, if we took their advice and launched on Monday with the new thing, they go, Oh, my God. How did this review? They took my advice. Well, yeah, I was your advice to 100 other people advice, but we took it and they’d be like, Oh, my God, this meat And it just It just made them so much more loyal. And they tell hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people we get I mean, there were days. My God, they’re days. I was in Temple one morning, the Garment Center synagogue and my phone. I feel my phone getting really hot in my pocket, which is not normal. And I started to hurt and I look at it. It’s almost on fire. It had frozen because we were mentioned in Seth Godin’s morning blogged, and at that time I was getting emails. Every time we get a new subscriber and the phone is actually frozen and was locked and and was like overheating, I take out the battery and like, reset the entire phone because we just got so many new, like, 14,000 subscribers in, like, three hours I’ve seen.

[00:37:30.68] spk_1:
I’ve seen you say, Excuse me. You say that that customer service is the new advertising marketing NPR? Yeah, it

[00:40:01.00] spk_0:
really is. Well again. You know, if we’re moving into that world where so imagine a lava lamp. And I love that. I can use this analogy. Imagine a lava lamp. A lava lamp has water Oil on the heat source. Right. Heat source heats the oil. The oil flows through the water. It makes pretty colors. I’ve heard it looks really good when you’re high. Now I’ve heard. Now imagine if crystals imagine if you are, uh, everyone you meet in your network, okay, is a drop of oil. The water is your network. And what is your world? Everyone you meet in your network from from the guy you’re sitting during the radio interview with to the guy who serves you ice creams, local deli to the guy who does your dry cleaning to your girlfriend to your wife to not the same time to your kids. Second grade teacher to your second grade teacher years ago. Everyone you meet is in your network, you know, right now, when Facebook first started, I would see the same weight from a kid with junior high school with his posted at the same weight as like my current girlfriend. I’m just ridiculous. I don’t need to know about everything, my friend from junior high schools doing having talked to Kidd in 15 years, Facebook’s gotten a lot smarter, as has Google. Now I see the people I communicate with the most okay, and if I if I reach out and communicate with new people, they start rising in my feet in my stream. If I don’t they fall. It’s just like a lava lamp. Every person you connect with is a drop of oil. That heat source at the bottom that’s rising. Raising or lowering those drops of oil is relevance. So imagine the heat sources relevance. And the more I interact with someone, the more the higher they go in my network in the more I see of them, the more trust level there is. When I’m at a bar and I meet someone or a restaurant or conference, I meet someone I don’t need to, Um connect them. I don’t need to go on Facebook and friend request, you know, awkward friend. Requesting is when you stop and think The last time I friend requested some of the real world was second grade. Will you be my friend? My daughter’s doing that because you know she goes It’s like cat Will you be my friend like tony? The cat doesn’t wanna be your but you know, it’s this awkward thing. Who the hell friend request someone anymore? If I’m if I’m hanging out with you The bar and we connect again and we talk and we go out to dinner and we’re having a good time with friends I don’t need to first request that you, you know. So that’s going away. Friending following liking and fanning is all going away. What will interact is the actual connection. So if I meet with you, then I have a good time with you and we talk again. If I use your business If I go to your non profit, if I donate, if I volunteer whatever the network knows that the more I do that, the more interact with you. The more you have the right to market to me And the more you will be at the top of my stream and the more I will see information about you the less I will have Thio search for you. But if you do something stupid or we’re no longer friends So yeah, you’re gonna fade Don’t unfriend you you just disappear. Unfriending is also awkward. I dated a woman, we

[00:40:06.44] spk_1:
broke up. It was nine months after we broke up. There was one done friend, the other one because it’s just awkward until I woke up with a

[00:40:11.28] spk_0:
friend of me. But anyway, But you know the concept of not having to do that of just, you know Okay, I haven’t talked in a while. I

[00:40:17.85] spk_1:
don’t see your post anymore. That’s the real world. That’s how it should be. And if you’re not feeding zombie loyalists, they can start to defect. No question about it. I wanna I wanna spend a little time on. If you’re

[00:40:29.29] spk_0:
not talking to them giving them what they want talking about their information, helping them out, they will gladly go somewhere else to someone who is. You know, if I have a great experience of the restaurant every week for three years and then

[00:40:39.42] spk_1:
all of a sudden, over time, I’m noticing less and less that restaurants doing less

[00:40:44.71] spk_0:
and less Thio take care of me, you know, And maybe management change. And I don’t feel that, you know, I’m ripe for being infected by another company. I’m right for someone else to come to. You know, Peter, because if I tweet something like, wow, I can’t believe I have to wait 40 minutes for a table. This didn’t used to be like that. If someone else is smart restaurant, they’re following me, and they’re gonna great. You know, there’s no wait,

[00:41:01.49] spk_1:
no way over here. Why don’t you come to block storms will give you free

[00:41:03.54] spk_0:
drink, you know, You know, and that right there, that’s first sign of infection. And I might become infected by another by another company. Become zombie loyalist

[00:41:21.91] spk_1:
for them. And so let’s let’s take you have a lot of good examples. Let’s take ah, one on one situation. How can we start to cure that? The simple act of realizing following your

[00:41:38.21] spk_0:
customer’s understanding when they’re not happy and fixing the situation before it escalates? Um, you know, you can contain a small outbreak, a small outbreak, small viral outbreak. You could contain that by getting the right people finding out what the problem is getting into one room, fixing their problem, healing

[00:41:38.61] spk_1:
them. You have a good united story. Right back when it was Continental,

[00:42:07.20] spk_0:
I was a frequent flyer and booked a trip to Paris on Dhe was very angry because they charged me $400 in looking for you. Remember what it was And I called the CEO. I’m just just for the hell of it. I’m like, I’m gonna I wrote a letter or an email. So this is before Social wrote an email to the CEO. I’m like this Ridiculous. I’m freaking like, 30 months later, my phone rings. Hello, Peter. Please hold for Larry Kilman, CEO of airlines. I’m like, Oh, crap, you know, and get on the phone. He’s like, Peter, how you doing? Mr. Doing started letting thes fees their new We sent that note. I’m guessing you don’t see it. We’re gonna waive them for you. But if you have any more problems, you know, feel free to call me. And I hung up the phone the next 40 minutes to sort of staring at it like holy crap. Larry Kellner, the CEO of United, just called me and talk to me, and it was like it was like, God coming down and say You now have the power to levitate your cat. It was just ridiculous. And so, you know, I have been faithful to Continental now, united ever since on, and they continue to treat me with respect and and do great things. And they’re they’re improving. They were getting a lot of crap over the past several years, and they really are starting to improve. It’s nice

[00:42:48.50] spk_1:
to see and not only, of course, your own loyalty, but

[00:42:50.41] spk_0:
you’re my God

[00:42:51.84] spk_1:
loyalist for them and how many times how much it’s

[00:42:54.83] spk_0:
unquantifiable. It’s unqualified. Dragged, dragged so many friends to united. I’ve made so many friends. Uh, I mean, my father, you know, uh, he only plays united now, which means he only drag. He dragged my mom only in the night and only drag my wife United States. There’s a lot of a lot of work that way. Yeah,

[00:44:16.39] spk_1:
we’re gonna go away for a couple of minutes when we come back. Of course, Peter, and we’re gonna keep talking about his book comes out in January. Zombie Loyalists. Time for our Last break dot drives dot drives. Engagement dot drives relationships. Dot Drives is the simplest donor pipeline fundraising tool. They’ve made it customizable, collaborative and intuitive. It moves the needle on your prospect and donor relationships. If that’s what you want. If you want to move prospects along from prospect, potential donor to donor and then beyond, of course it’s stewardship. This is what dot does for you. For listeners. As you know, there’s a free month and a free demo. You go to the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. We’ve got but loads more time. That’s the last but loads of 2020 something. But there’ll be plenty of butts in 2021 but loads more time for zombie loyalists. With Peter Shankman, you have some examples of zombie loyalist leaving and mass like dominoes. Netflix. They’re both They’re both in the book, so it s so one leaving. If you don’t, you’re not starting to cure one leaving?

[00:44:29.54] spk_0:
Yeah, and then that’s the thing. You know, the the Internet with the hashtag, everything like that. You know, it doesn’t take a long time um, for those things to sort of blow up in your face and, uh, you know, the end of the day Mhm. Everyone said, Oh, you know Twitter is responsible for for us losing another, not you’re responsible for you losing, you know, And And if your product isn’t great and you’re your actions, don’t speak well of who you are. Then there’s no reason your customers should stay with you, you know? And it was so social media is really hurting us. Know you’re hurting yourself. The only difference is that social media makes it easier for the world to know

[00:44:59.27] spk_1:
about. They’re just telling the story. Dominoes and Netflix are good example because they bounce back. They took responsibility and

[00:45:43.00] spk_0:
they both owned the dominoes, came out and said, You know what? You’re right. Our pizza. We do have a problem. We’re gonna fix this. And they spent millions fixing it. And sure enough, they’re back with a vengeance. Now, I may or may not even have ordered them every once in a while, and I live in New York City. That’s a that’s a That’s a sacrilege. But you know, I have the app on my phone from over, You know, traveling somewhere being or whatever. And you know what, Do you get it? 11. 30 at night when your flight is delayed in the land? Donna, Um, which reminds me she probably go exercise on the flip side. Looks like Netflix. They also were screwed up. You know, they were losing, trying to switch between the two. They came up with a new name and everyone just like public man. And so and again. You’re watching the same thing happen with uber right now. So we really interesting to see if they’re able to repair themselves.

[00:45:48.99] spk_1:
Listening is important. Both Both those. Both those two examples. They listen to

[00:46:49.48] spk_0:
their customers. I think there’s a problem with listening because everyone’s been saying, Listen, listen, listen. For months and years and years and years now, but, you know, no one ever says that you have to do more than just listen. You have to listen. Actually follow up. It’s one thing to listen, you know, I use example my wife I could sit there and listen to her for hours, you know? But if I don’t actually say anything back, she’s gonna smack may you know, and go to the other room. And so you really have to. It’s a two way street. Listening is great, but you gotta respond, and look, I’ll take it a step further. E was like, Oh, Twitter is so great because someone was complaining on Twitter and we went online, and we we saw the complaint that we fixed their problem. And, yeah, how about if the problem did exist in the first place? You know, because the great thing about Twitter is that yeah, people complain on Twitter, the bad thing about it is there complaining about you on Twitter. So it’s like, What if the problem didn’t exist in the first place? What if What if you empower your front desk clerk to fix the problem so that I didn’t have to tweet? Hurts is my favorite story about all this? Uh, I used to rent from Hertz religiously. Um, And then I went thio Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport this past April, and I gave it, was giving a speech, and I go on. My name is supposed to be on the board, you know, so I could go back to my car and it wasn’t happens. I got upstairs. I wait 40 minutes on the V I P line. Um, after 40 minutes, they finally say, you know, there’s ah, on the one guy here. A lot of people might have a better chance. We go up the regular line, okay? Probably have told us that a little earlier. Go to the regular line. Spent 45 minutes waiting. The regular line that’s now been

[00:47:11.51] spk_1:
Are you tweeting? While this was happening?

[00:47:48.08] spk_0:
Well, I had enough. I was actually not only tweeting I had enough time to create a meme that should give you some idea of how long I was online with myself when I was quite enough. E get to the counter. Mm. How I can help you. Yeah, I was downstairs the V i. P. S and they told me Oh, you’re preservation downstairs like Yeah, OK, let’s Let’s put a pin in that, um they just sent me up here like right. They have to help you. Well, it’s not really they You guys were the same company. I mean, I could see the reservation on the screen. You you can help me. Sorry. So I can’t help. You have to go to V I p next. Like you just next to me. Okay, so if you know anything about Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix, Um, all of the rental car company in the same place, eh? So I walked 50 ft.

[00:47:51.19] spk_1:
It’s a bus, takes you to the big the big pavilion, where they’re all next week.

[00:49:46.97] spk_0:
I walk 50 ft from the depravity that was hurt to the the wonderful Zen Garden of Tranquility That was Avis. And in four minutes, I had a nicer, cheaper or nicer, less expensive car given to me a woman named Phyllis who was 66 moved to Phoenix from Detroit with her husband for his asthma. I knew this because she told me. Um, she smiled at me. She brought her manager out and said, Yeah, that’s another refugee from hurts. And I said, This happens a lot. They’re like, Yeah, I’m like, Wow, you think they have done something about that? And so on the way out in a vis um, I I thank them. I walk past her, I shoot them this, you know, sort of Look at the look of the beast. I get my Avis car driving my hotel once I get to my hotel. I write a wonderful block post about my experience called Peter and hurts in the terrible. Horrible. No boat could really bad customer experience. Would you have a kid? You find your writing titles about your block post that have to do with kids books? Um, I do not like hurts, Sam. I am. And things and I included in this block post the five things I’d rather do than ever, uh, rent from Hertz again. I think number three was was ride a razor blade bus through a lemon juice waterfall, um, with, you know, and so. But, of course, the next day hurts reaches out. To me. This is the head of North American customer service. That’s all your body I’m like, They’re like, you know, we’d love to have that, Nick. No. Like you’re not gonna fix the problem. Number 17 Avis car. I’m never going back to hurt number two. There were five people yesterday. Five people interacted with all of whom had the chance to save me and keep me as a customer for life. A customer who have been so happy and I would have loved you five people blew it. So don’t waste your time trying to convert me back. You’re not going to what you want to dio is spend some of that energy retraining your staff to have empathy and to give them the ability and the empowerment to fix my problem when it happens. Because five people it takes every single employee to keep your company running, it takes one to kill it. PS Avis reached out to thank me personally. And, uh, I am now just this ridiculously huge, loyal fan of Davis and always

[00:49:56.07] spk_1:
will be. You have a pretty touching story about when you worked in a yogurt shop. You were really young way. Have a couple of minutes.

[00:50:39.85] spk_0:
Tell that. Tell that good stuff that was in the East Side, which again is yet another reason why I live on the West Side. Nothing good ever happens in Manhattan’s East Side. So I was I was working that I can’t believe it’s yogurt, which was a store that I think back in the 80 c b. Y. No, no TCB. Why was the country’s best I c B I. Why, it was a poor I can’t believe it. I can’t believe you, Yogurt. It was a poor attempt to capitalize on. I’m working at this store, and I go in every day and make the yoga to clean the floors. Radio typical high school job. And, uh, it was during the summer and thousands of people walking by, I think, like Second Avenue or something. And there were these brass poles that hung from, you know, there was an awning, right? It’s only that there and then the brass poles that held the awning up and they were dirty as hell, right? I’m sure they’ve never been polished ever. And I found I found some brass polishing the back, like always bear in the back. And one afternoon I went outside and I positive polishing the polls. My logic was, if the polls were shining, people saw them. Maybe they come into the store. Maybe they wanna, you know, by more screenplays. And the manager came out. What the hell are you doing? I said I told them what I thought. I don’t pay you to think. Get inside. You know, I’m like, there’s no customers in there, like, Okay, I’ll make sure the yogurt still pumping it full blast and I quit. I just quit that job. I mean, like, I couldn’t even begin to understand why someone would invest. I mean, own a franchise 50 grand to at least to buy that franchise. Why wouldn’t he invest in the two seconds it took a little elbow grease to make the polls claim that might bring in more customers? What the hell? You know, you’re not paid to think you’re not paid to think my favorite line. Yeah, I just I e encourage if any kids listening this teenagers, if you if you boss says that to you, quit, quit. I will hire you. Just quit it, Z. Probably the worst thing in the world that you could possibly do because you have customers who you have customers who every day could be helped by people who are paid to think. And that’s the ones you wanna hire.

[00:51:54.16] spk_1:
We gotta wrap up. Tell me what you love about the work you do.

[00:51:59.06] spk_0:
I get paid to talk. I mean, my God, that’s the same stuff I used to get in trouble for in high school. But on a bigger picture, what I really love about it is being able to open someone’s eyes and have them come back to me. Um, I run a series of masterminds called Shank Mines Business masterminded shank mines dot com, their day long seminar all around the country. And I had someone come to me. You know, I took your advice about X y Z and I started listening a little more. And I just got the largest retainer client I’ve ever had in my life by a factor of four. She goes, and I just can’t even thank you Never sent gorgeous politics like I can’t even thank you enough. Oh, my God. Being able to help people, You know, at the end of the day where I’ve yet to find another planet suitable for life, I’m looking So we’re all in this together. And if that’s the case, you know, why wouldn’t we want to help people just a little bit more? You know, there really isn’t a need to be, as do she is as we are as a society, we could probably will be a little nice to each other. And you’d be

[00:55:09.04] spk_1:
surprised that will help. The book is Zombie Loyalists. It’s published by PAL Grave. MacMillan comes out in January. You’ll find Peter at Shenkman dot com and on Twitter at Peter Shankman. Peter, thank you so much pleasure. Thank you Next week, as I alluded to, There is no show next week or for the week after. I hope you enjoy the hell out of your holidays. Although I know Hannah has already passed. I’m sorry. That’s sort of a set thing. I don’t have a lot of control over. If I did, I would do something about it. But there’s not a lot I can do about that. But you still have New Year’s. You got. You got that to look forward to, and I hope everyone enjoys time off time with family. In small, of course, small household size groups keep it safe. There’ll be a 2021 on Take time for yourself yourself. You need it. You deserve time for yourself. Rest recovery, recuperation, naps, Highly underrated naps. Terrible. I did a whole block post years ago on naps. Uh, I admire Nah, I’m more than admire. I thrive over naps. I exult in naps. Yes, way beyond mere admiration of naps. I exult in naps. It’s been a rough year, so However you take care of yourself, you know what’s best for yourself. Do it. Do it. Please take good care of yourself and I will see you in 2021. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it at tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives Prospect to donor simplified tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant for a free demo and that free month. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. You people have application. Scotty, be with me next week. No, no, no, not next week. Be with me next year for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out there and be great