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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with santa chromium if you joined us me with the mere notion that you missed today’s show boost revenue with donorsearch vase john hayden and rachel muir reveal how to smartly and effectively survey your donors to increase revenue and grow your major gift pipeline. John is the ceo of inbound zombie, and rachel is vice president of training at pursuant that was recorded at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference and discovery visits thes one on one meetings are critical to your prospect research maria simple, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder make sure you’re getting the most out of them that originally aired on july tenth twenty fifteen tony take two twitter responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers for non-profits we be spelling dot com? Here are john hayden and rachel muir on boosting revenue with donorsearch vase welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Coverage of sixteen ntc it’s the non-profit technology conference with the convention center in san jose, california with me now are john hayden on rachel bure. John hayden is yeah dahna ceo founder. Easy everything of inbound zombie. And rachel bure is vice president of training at pursuing before we begin with john and rachel, you have to do our a swag item of the of the interview, which you may have noticed a big, big green glass from wind streams. And inside is a charging charging box so you can charge your charge your usb device using and then at the same time, have your drink from win streak. Preacher, would you have that swag pile? Please take the charger out before you drink. It worked in the foreground, foreground of our swag pile, if you please. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. All right. Rachel. John, your topic is how did boost revenue with donorsearch vase. I don’t think people think of boosting revenue with older surveys, but so that’s spell that misconception. John, how is it that donorsearch vase can be used to boost revenue? Well, thie idea is that the more you understand your donors the more they’re going to feel heard, right? And then the more that they’re understood and they feel heard and they’re connected to the organization them or they’re going to support the organization, so don’t donorsearch is a really about understanding people that support your organization. So it’s part of ah multi-channel engagement strategy. Yes, you could say that it’s fair to say, rachel, this is one of our channels in our multi-channel strategy absolutely and it’s a really great tool for understanding what your donor’s interests are. So then you could target your appeals based on this interest, and you can talk to your donors about the one program that they care about and not the nine programs they don’t care about you okay? I don’t think i don’t think many people are thinking about surveys as a channel. I think they’re thinking about twitter and facebook and instagram as their channels, not a servant, all right? Yeah, i wouldn’t i wouldn’t say this survey zahra channel, i would say that surveys are almost like an approach, you know, too sir, because you could survey people on twitter you could survey people on facebook you could survey people with a surveymonkey app you khun survey people in a number of ways so it’s more like, you know, get feedback from donors, you know, approach to a channel. Yeah, exactly approach to a channel to a strategy for an engagement purpose. Exactly. Yes, i couldn’t have said it better. I couldn’t have said it worse. Okay, so let’s dive into this, you have some i can t example, i don’t feel like starting with the examples because then you have some do’s and don’ts, which we’ll get to. But you have some examples to share of good donorsearch practices. Rachel sure, yeah, we shared a example in oven online donorsearch ve in our session and it was a short six question survey that really focused on identifying number one. What donors communication preferences are how we doing on communicating with they are communicating to little just write too much. What? What air? The beneficiary preferences the donor has who does it don’t care about of all the target populations that the non-profit serves which one interest the donor the most some questions about you know what? What programs do they care about the most? Is that just some great basic? Questions that you can use to ask your donors and these were important because that was six question, yeah, six question, okay, you only important because these are all really important questions because donors give for their reasons, not ours, and the more and one of the points that john and i made in our session is, the more you find out you’re you’ve gotto ask when you ask these questions, you’ve got to be prepared to use them to use what you learned and then honor your donor’s preferences that they tell you i want to hear from you more, or i want to hear from you less or i want hear about this book, i’ve got to be prepared to be able to deliver on that so that you’re honoring their preferences. You’ve taken the time to find out, and you’re going toe near next up, it’s going to deliver on it. Okay, so we’ve got a preserve these responses not just use the to analyse survey, and then we get it not before. Yeah, we’ve got to make good on it and that’s what we want to because we want to be talking about what they care. About the more we talk to them about what i care about, where they’re going to give, the longer they’re going to stay with us, jon, otherwise, people are gonna feel unheard, yeah, totems of serving me, if you’re not going toe honor what i asked you to do. Exactly, yeah, okay, you got another, i can’t example for us, john, i can’t example, i’m only quoting from your text here, so is this text fortified? I persisted, it’s, somebody else wrote it. I don’t know what i doubt that, you know, you have no, it turns to blame too exuberant. Okay, you got some other examples. I can’t hear otherwise. Good serve, good serve a example. No. You know, we should see we shared another video example of using video. Yeah. Video. Yes. Sorry. I thought we were in this session. I was definitely the sessions that work you did? I did provoc way. So we shared a great example of using video using video to really take the donor right into the action. Take them right there in the field, allow them to release, give them an immersive experience where they can experience the donor’s work and then use that to open up a conversation with, um, wade love to talk to you. We want to learn more about what inspired you to give. We’d love to talk about what we’re doing. We want to do so respectfully if you’d like to hear from us, just click this button and we’ll set up a visit. So it’s a great way to have your donor raise their hand on their own and find out who wants to have a deeper relationship with you. Yes. Okay. It’s a little more about what was the content of that video? The video example that we shared was a great video for operation smile and it really took the viewer. First hand into the operating room, seeing these surgeries and seeing how marchenese cleft palate surgery’s how, how they impacted these families and these communities, and they heard stories from the program officers they heard stories from donors, doctors from doctors from the founder of the organization and the founder of the organization has a very respectful called action at the end where he says we’d love to hear from you. We want to do so respectfully, we’d love to hear your hopes would love to hear your wishes. Wait, if you’d like for us to call you and set up a visit, just click this button so it’s a really nice way using the emails since the donorsearch to a landing page with personalized you were all so they could track how the if the donor watches the video, how long they watch it for, and then invite the donor to respond and raise their hand if they’d like to have a visit. So it’s another tool to learn more about a donor’s interest and hopefully set up a visit. Okay, okay, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Dahna john, i’ll give you a chance to rehabilitate. Duitz. I was just there for my looks and that’s it. You could say what not to ask, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you, rachel. Yeah, i was gonna get do’s don’ts. Thank you, teo. Grayce you think? Well, i’m talking, john, you want to scrap something? Yeah, there you go, that would help them if they want to sign. You know, i don’t know, i okay, let’s, move. Yes, duitz a note. Don’t you ask them how much they recently gave? Don’t ask them what they gave and these air no nose, because you should know this information, right? So if you ask them that right away out of the gate, they say, wow, what? What if it’s an anonymous server or we’re not, we’re not we don’t like anonymous service. No, we can’t, because we’re supposed to be a hundred preferences. They were not so from the kate we’re not talking about no, no, no, no. Yeah, and s so were were, you know, again the purpose of the surveys to understand the donor. So we’re collecting this information putting into the donor database so that we can follow up with appropriate communication. So if someone says, hey, i like cats versus dogs for an animal shelter. They’re going to get communication that’s about dogs, here’s, harold, the dogs that were saving and here’s what you can do to help change the life in a dog. So that’s, really, the purpose is to try and taylor the communication and connect the have basically have the donor have a voice in the in the cause. Okay, i understand. Rachel’s getting the pen out of swag out chili that’s. Okay. I mean, john is squeezing the clients, just ball. I’m a little nervous. Yeah. That’s. Okay, rachel got tomato, but i know you’re nervous because you’re doing so badly. I know he’s doing our angel holding its made of which is not squeezing she’s selling. Yeah, i would say. Okay, here’s, some morning lol i was going to give you some dues. Don’t don’t use complicated phd level language don’t use complicated language keep it short keep it simple sixth grade reading level literally experience meeting you wanted to be don’t use have it be all text used highly visualized examples that fit in with the organization’s mission think. Think of a buzzfeed stall quiz that you might take on facebook. Like what? Eighties band and my duran duran psychedelic furs, thie cures you know you you just see the images and you know how you’re going to vote. You barely even have to read the text. You wanna make it as easy for them to read is easy for them to do is possible. Okay. Okay. Really? Sixth grade level. All right. Any other don’t you don’t don’t use don’t send people to a website that looks horrible on a mobile device where they have to zoom in and look at the survey in order to fill it out. Don’t ask people twenty questions be very careful what you’re asking and the number of questions you know, twenty years too long twenties way too long is there arrange five or six? If you’re doing a survey to your whole group, just keep it short and simple. Five or six? Yeah, and i would say, don’t skimp on this subject line put as much thought into this subject line as you do your survey questions so that you get people to open it. We’ll talk about the subject line of the invitation email. Exactly. Put a lot of thought into maybe a test. Your subject line. Okay, so easy to do now we all should be tested. That’s. True. Yeah, i say be testing is like it’s. Like letting your donor’s vote on subject line that they like the best and then using that to send out to all the other people. It’s, basically, you know, having them help you write the email. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That was a good one. Good response. Join arms. I don’t mean the beginning of this catching ourselves ability, working bilich. Like getting out of prison. You were. Seriously, you’re not serious, man. Like a parole officer. You’re like the worst parole officer. You’re much better one. I’m much better on twitter, facebook way we’ve never met trump. I invite you you all this time, i’ve been holding you at bay. Yeah, exactly welcoming, but probably yeah. Okay hyre be horse that’s. Great, man. You’re a good sport. Yeah, i’m a good sport. Absolutely. You beat the crap out of you later on before you go. I am in a police state. Okay. Kruckel with affiliate. I will not oppcoll hyre all right. All right. We’ve exhausted. Don’t let’s. Look let’s. Focus on the positive. Yes. Do. Alright. Well, rachel, you hit some of that. You make it simple. Very visual, right? Visual, other deuce, other good practices. I would say. Try to integrate, serving your donors in multiple avenues. You know, you can send them a donorsearch juche. Khun, ask them questions after they you know, we talked about having just a comment box. What inspired you to make this gift on your donation form after they get your newsletter after an event after the gala, you know? There, there. Are multiple touchpoint where you can solicit feedback from your donor’s there’s a reason why you can’t go to old navy that buy something for my twins without me getting a survey about the experience and satisfactions and number one driver dahna loyalty. So think of other ways that you console is thatyou’re dahna speed back way also talked about donorsearch coll’s, which is kind of interesting. So when you think surveys right, you think, oh, the internet, we gotta use the website and all that stuff, but donorsearch coll’s kind of old school. You get five or six donors in a room, you know, very kind of, i guess, you know, committed long term donors. Maybe, you know, from different, maybe maybe a volunteer. Maybe a donor could just be a virtual room. It could be, you know, a real impersonal world. Yes. You meet them in person and you ask them questions. You know what made you decide it? Initially support the organization. You know what? You know what? What kind of stories really get you amped up? You know why? Why do you continue to support the organization and just have that open dialogue in the small? Group and i think often that khun b, that dialogue can be the kind of source to create the online survey, because then we know well what you know, when you start with an online survey, you might be asking, well, what do we even start with? But maybe the donorsearch kel is a good place to start, find out what are the key kind of issues or what the key preferences and then sussed that out throughout the throughout the database. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yep, okay, are there certain groups of donors that air better to try to engage in a survey than others like sustainers vs strictly annual donors or hyre plant e-giving donors vs others durney any distinctions across types of donors that we’re talking with or dealing with? That’s a great question, i would say surveys air really great for all your donors and it’s an opportunity for you to be able to identify who you’re sustainers prospects are and who playing, giving prospects are and really move those people from the annual fund up because you cared enough tto learn about what they care about, and you’re going to deliver on it so you’ve got you’ve increased your chances of deepening that relationship and deepening their involvement with the organization by asking them the survey because donors give for their reasons, not ours and it’s up to us to figure out what they are. I see a lot of fundraisers really trying to read their donors minds and wasting a lot of time and, you know, i like to say ask more questions, read les minds there’s someone it’s, it’s totally appropriate to say how do you like to be invited to make a gift? That’s a very respectful way to find out more about how someone does like to be invited to make a gift, and these are all you don’t have to try to read their minds. You can ask them these questions and learn a lot build a relationship in the process i can think of to gary with one music suggested. How do you like to be asked? How often? How often should we be approaching? Use is two or three times per year appropriate five times one time that’s a great example. We actually talked about that, you know you’re giving donors choice when you do that and that. That’s giving them control and that’s a really big part of them deepening their engagement with you. They want to have that control. We’ve got one study where an organization raised fifty percent more fifty percent more at their year and appeal because they gave those donors those choices win, do you? When do you want to hear from us? When do you want us to ask? How often do you want us to ask? They first proved the value of their communications and that’s something i would caution anyone to first do you know if if the first time you make a gift? If i ask you how much how often you won’t hear from me, you might say, not very much because you don’t know me yet, but once i proven the value of the communications and you do know and the donor doesn’t know the organization it’s really great to ask those questions. That’s a really great point. Thank you. Like i scored warning sixteen minutes and forty seconds. All right, john, you want a chance? A chance of what? Score a point? Okay asked me a question we’re talking about. Good, good. Good news. No, mistress. Yeah, eso so keep the language simple, very simple and use their words right don’t use any jargon that you might throw around in the, you know, internal meetings, use their words on dh focus a lot on visuals, actually, visuals drop people in the video is a great example. And actually, that video is very powerful because and the organization was alt-right smile training, you know, is it was operation smile operation, smile. Yeah, it was great. I mean, when the video was playing during our first session, i was kind of had tears in my eyes, you know? So that emotion drives the person take action, right? So at the end, you know, hey, tell us what we can do or contact us. We want to take the next step with you, that person probably more likely to take that action because that emotion, right? So i think that’s that’s really key is to try two focus on drawing people in emotionally and and appeal to that because that’s going to drive the action and there’s something like logic will logic drives a conclusion. So a logical solicitation koegler appeal, logical appeal drives a conclusion. An emotional appeal. Drives a response. Action? Exactly. Exactly. That’s crazy. You weren’t ten points to that. I love it. That was brilliant. No one gave you the authority to assess points. There’s a hostess that just here. You see the signs? Yes. Okay. Tony martignetti okay, he’s putting you in this company. I’m being put in my space and i think i’m being hard. I think john hayden may never come back co-branded before so yeah, people will google me at least. Who is this guy? John hayden he’s having a total failure on this video? Shit. You don’t even mention it. A credential here that you’re exactly facebook marketing for dummies proof that i am a dummy proof facebook marketing for demolition take himself too seriously and not at all. Okay. Secrets your favorite for-profit brands used to build loyalty let’s, start revealing some of some of these for-profit secrets. Well, they ask, i mean you you can hardly buy anything or do anything without being asked about your experience, right? I mentioned like the survey over the dressing rooms. I was the lighting and and they, you know, the best time to build on a great experience or fix a negative one is in the moment that it happened. And that’s why? Surveys are so great if you ask people honestly, you get a chance to interact in that experience before that donor becomes a lapsed owner and that’s. Why it’s great to be soliciting feedback often, often often and immediate. Yeah, depending on the engagement, right, depending on what that engagement was. Okay, okay. That’s a good one. Yeah, and actually, someone has a bad experience, you know, they might wait. One the question we asked to us. Have you ever had a bad haircut? You know? So you’re not going to tell your hair and i don’t. I don’t know if i’d have been here cut or not. Probably not right now, but, you know, if you have a bad haircut apparently, according to people i know if you have a bad haircut, you’re going to tell your friends, you know, whatever you do, don’t go to the hairdresser, but you’re not gonna tell the hairdresser, right? So it’s important to listen on follow-up and but but just being heard can often turn things around, and i think that way refer to the recovery paradox. Yeah, this is known in the for-profit sector. Is this service recovery paradox? Yep, service recovery so it says it says that if you do something really awful and it’s, someone has an awful customer experience if they feel heard, they are more likely. Teo, you know, support, you are loyal, but they’re going to be more loyal then if they never had a complaint in the first place and you don’t even have to fix the problem. That’s the good thing you don’t have to listen to it. Yeah, really? That’s the that’s? Why it’s a paradox like you would think if someone has negatives, something negative to say about your you know, organization or your business, you know, you you have to fix it. We gotta change this, but not necessarily you have to listen, something’s, you obviously can’t change, right? But just giving that person the opportunity to say how they feel and be heard. Then they say, wow, of all the brands of all the retailers of all the non-profits i sport, i feel hurt by these guys. Now they’re not doing everything i like, but i really liked them so that loyalty increases universes. The defensive, you know. Blaming the victim response? Yeah. Service. Yeah, exactly. And again, the bad haircut. Right? So if you don’t listen to them that person’s out there on the street telling their friends, hey, you know, whatever you do, don’t support these guys because they’re kind of, you know, not only did they do it wrong, but they don’t want to hear what i have to say. Also, you don’t want that on the street. Your customer donorsearch taking the time to share their opening up to you. If they didn’t care about you, they wouldn’t. They wouldn’t bother wait. They’re in their mind. They would waste a time sharing this bad if you are. Yeah, this person cares enough to tell. And eventually we all heard that that will increase their loyalty. That’s the parent? Okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got a couple more minutes together. What else? What else can we do? You have to depart. Rachel it’s. Okay, just you don’t have to do it silently. I’m going to turn off your mike so you don’t make a lot of noise. You’ll wake latto by rachel buy-in right now you’re gonna leave me with the, uh, heimans lackluster way. Go. Alright, let’s, finish this up. Tony that’s. So that’s. Rachel, you’re vice president of training at pursuing thank you, rachel. Thanks, rachel. Okay, john. All right. Great. So i hope that i just said we have a couple of minutes left, so don’t disappoint. Good. Okay. What? What else? What else is gonna be covered in this topic, or or what else was covered in? Well, i think, you know, i think i talked about the thing that we’ve tried to impress people with. The donor survey is not just a survey that you do once a year, once a quarter, but it’s almost like a mindset of creating upper every opportunity to follow up with the donor and listen to them. So, for example, we talked about when someone makes a first time donation, right? That’s a big deal. That’s. A pretty big deal. Hey! Wow, you you gave us money. Don’t! Why did you know what was what made you decide to do that? Someone gives a second time, right? If they give once that’s that’s great. But if they give a second time, it’s almost a miracle. So wow! What did we what are we doing? That drove you back to us twice reinforced the catch of a miracle. That is because we have a seventy percent donor attrition problem across non-profits in the u s absolute we’re losing seventy percent of our donors each year yet so it’s quite a big deal when somebody gives you that second? Absolutely. And then and then, of course, monthly, right? If someone says, hey, i gave once or twice here and there, but now i want to commit to a monthly program, right? I want to commit to that. Wow, you did that other yeah. So obviously these follow-up these donor-centric questions going different for each of the situations right on then also, you know, even on a donation form, having, like rachel said an open box that said, if you wanted, you know, if you have anything to tell us anything you want to share with us about why you’re supporting us, just type it in right here, just having this attitude of kind of b, you know, having an ear and being open there, listening to people and giving people opportunities to share how they feel, you know, even on, you know, i wrote facebook marketing for dummies and i’m always telling people yes, there’s facebook insights, you can look at all the data but read the comments on the posts, right? That’s, where you get all this really incredible personal stories, people sharing personal stories, what they think about certain issues, how they and you and also you learn their language, right? How are they talking about the cause we think we talked about has a, you know, communications person at a non-profit, you know, sometimes they get into jargon or talking about a cause in a certain way of thinking, they have to educate donors, but, you know, by reading comments really listen to donorsearch kind of understand their language, how they’re talking about it using their words, you know, okay, yeah, cool john all right, was that i think that’s a great rap, all right? Because i was so harsh to you. Yeah, i’ll give you a shout out. You should be following john hayden on twitter he’s at john hey, because he is very good who does have a lot of good content and it’s not only about facebook, email anything put candy, you know, five tips five think you sort of known for five of these seven of these quick tips very tactical there’s that value yet. But you also go deeper to oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, and i’ve weekly webinars i do free webinars called the hump day coffee break and it’s just, you know, people show up, look at wednesday’s eleven and, you know, have a cup coffee, learned something and leave and that’s it, you know? So yeah. So i feel like i told you that. Great. We’ll let you have it. Thank you. Well, thank you for the opportunity. Really do appreciate it. And it was fun. I have very thick skin, so i had a great time. Honestly, tell your friends about not probably. I do. Do i tweet about it? I know you tweet about it. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. John hayden, he’s he’s. Everything around inbound zombie. They do. Marketing consultant. Exactly. Thank you. Took it. And you are listening and viewing tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference wrapping day one with john hayden and rachel muir. Or we’ll be back on day two. Of course, on the day three stay with us. Discovery visits. We have maria. Simple coming up first pursuant you know them, they have fund-raising management tools that are ideal for small and midsize shops perfect for our listeners. They fill your potential donor pipeline that keep your fund-raising on task, time against goal and all the individual fund-raising task day after day, week after week that you need to track, they’ll keep you managing those making sure that your time is is probably focused. So you’re meeting goal pursuant dot com we’d be spelling spelling bees for non-profit fund-raising this is not your mother’s spelling bee, not even the ones from seventh grade there’s too much fun, they’re enormously interactive, including dancing and there’s also stand up comedy and the comics i’ve seen are quite funny live music too. Facilitate that dancing note there’s no deejay thing here is live music so you got a concert you get stand up comedy there’s dancing fund-raising, of course, and they squeeze the spelling bee in there too. I love what they’re all about it’s really very cool, it’s. Very different. They have a video that shows it all at we b e spelling dot com now tony steak too. Meet me on twitter i love i have a lot of fun on twitter. Even people cite that hundred forty character limitation, but that’s nonsense because if if the conversation is getting detailed, you go into direct messages. And if you if you want to keep it public, then you just do multiple one hundred forty character messages. So, uh, seems kinda old to be hope you not put off by one hundred forty characters. It’s fun, you know, it’s it’s immediate. Um, i get a lot of guests that way. I get a lot of listeners of the weak that way. Twitter’s very cool. So if you’re not following, you could check me out at tony martignetti be grateful as i always am. If you re tweet about the show talking about the show, let your followers let your network know that you’re into non-profit radio and, uh, yeah, check me out. Sabelo please say hello on twitter that’s tony’s take two it’s just that simple live listener love it’s got to go out you know, it’s coming gratitude, gratitude and love to all our live listeners whatever city, state country you are in your listening now and i appreciate it live love to you i will spare you the diatribe about then versus now, when we’re pre recorded this week podcast pleasantries, they go out right after the live love they go pleasantries to our many, many podcast listeners are lots of different platforms for podcast listeners. There’s still that one in germany hanging in there we get like thirty or forty hits ah month from his podcast dot d i think, but itunes the vast, vast majority stitcher number two platform and then there’s like player dot fm and pod bay and podcast and smaller ones. But whatever platform you’re getting, the the the show from pleasantries to you and our affiliate affections right on the heels of the podcast pleasantries i know where platforms you’re getting it from our am and fm affiliate stations throughout the country and i am grateful to you affections to the many affiliate listeners on stations all around the country. Here’s maria simple originally from the july tenth show last year on discovery visits you also know maria simple she’s, the prospect finder, a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com. Her book is panning for gold. Find your best. Donor prospects now she’s on a diet of dirt cheap and free. You can follow her on twitter at maria simple welcome back, maria maria so i gave the screen here. How are you? Where you been? What’s going on there? What do you think? That’s? Too much that’s too much. I had myself on mute while you were doing on minute announcements there. Sorry about that. Um, i’m glad you’re with me. Welcome back. Absolutely. Thank you. Pleasure. We’re talking about discovery visits today. These, uh, he’s let’s define a discovery visit. And then once you explain why you think they’re so critical to prospect research, well, you know, as prospect researchers, unfortunately, we don’t have access to every little piece of information that would be useful for you. As you’re thinking about cultivating or soliciting someone so actually sitting down face to face with a donor is going to yield so much insight about what motivates them, why they love your organization and potentially yield larger gifts for you down the road. I blogged this a while ago, and it may be one of the first times that you and i met online because you commented on it. But i don’t think you were on this show at this point, but i blogged the value of face-to-face meetings, and i was not diminishing prospect research online and all through all the resource is that you and i have talked about from chambers of commerce and libraries toe online resource is wasn’t diminishing those, but yeah, the value that you get from having lunch with someone i happen to like doing it over meals, but whether it’s over meals or a meeting in their office or a site visit to your place there’s going be great. Um, you just pick up so much just by talking to somebody for for an hour? Yeah, yeah, and and definitely even in the body language alone. So if you start steering that conversation in a certain direction and you see people getting uncomfortable or fidgety or ah, in the opposite way, if maybe they start leaning in and leaning forward and looking like they’re really engaged with with what you’re talking about, perhaps a new program that you’re looking toe launch and get funded, all of that can yield so much great information for you. Sometimes it could be a little awkward. You hear things that you, you’re not sure how to document, and we’ll talk about the importance of doing that, like, you know, they don’t really like the ceo or your boss, you know, are there glad that you’re at the lunch with them and not this other gift officer? Yeah, and you do have to be careful about that. How you document that? Because, you know, a donor does have the ability to walk into your organisation at any time and say, let me see what donorsearch crowds you have on me. So you think you would want to document it in as a subject in an objective manner i should say objectively think of yourself as a a nen vested gate of reporter, right? When you’re trying to write down what the comments are so you might, you know, just right. You know, they did not seem particularly interested in the new x y z program and period end of story. Now we’re talking about the documentation it’s critical to save this in your hopefully you have a c r m database, right? A donor database cr m someplace. This has tio this information, you know, it’s what? We call, i guess, institutional memory, right? And you’re not going to put me in jargon jail for that? Are, you know, that’s a pretty straightforward one, okay, i’m enjoying for well, if if you as a development officer or is an executive director, sit down and have a conversation with someone and then you decide to leave the organization a year later. Ah, and then the new person takes over and goes in and has a visit with this long time donor sort of starts asking that same set of questions that donor’s going to kind of look at him like, don’t you already know this? Because i’ve already talked to your predecessor about what my interests were, etcetera. So you really do need to make sure that you are taking, you know, the time and it’s time well worth, you know, spent just documenting what happened during the conversation. What were the critical point? What were the things that need to be followed up on? You know, maybe it’s a timing issue. Maybe they say, well, you know what? This is a really bad time for my family right now, but in two years we feel that our finances will be in a different situation, you’ve got to get that documented and that’s an ideal example of one of the many, many things that you’ll find out from talking to somebody that you’ll never find online or any other resource is i don’t lose its talking, you gotta you gotta drop people out and and they love your work, otherwise they wouldn’t be meeting with you, so they’re happy to talk about what it is they love how, how their situation can impact your organization. I mean, positively or negatively, you know, like you’re saying, this is not a good time for us, you know, we just had a downturn in my business or from death in the family or, you know, whatever i mean stuff you’re not going to find out anywhere else than talking to people, you’re absolutely right. And, you know, one of the interesting things too, is you sometimes when i’m having conversations with with a non-profit maybe it a networking event or at a conference or something, and i’ll last generally how is your fund-raising going and then steer the conversation towards you know well, you know, when was the last time you had a chance to meet with who you would consider to be your top ten donors, and they kind of look at you like, uh, am i supposed to be regularly meeting with on donors? Oh, boy, yeah. That’s ah that’s yeah, that’s where the person in charge of development needs to be stewarding and managing up the, you know, the sea level people and that maybe that’s only one person may be the ceo is executive director is all there is but that, you know, yeah, yeah, you’ve got to be managing up and making sure that these relationships are nurtured with your your most important donors. You’re most important volunteers as well. Yeah, and if you don’t have the time to do it as a staff member, get your board involved. This is a perfect role for a board to get involved in. Even your board members who say, i hate to ask for money. I’ll do anything for this organization just don’t make me ask for money and it’s so simple for them to just go in and have it really a conversation you know you can provide them with, you know, prompt them with a list. Of questions that they might consider asking this individual, but it really is a conversation all about discovering what is this donor-centric about why are they giving any money to you at all when you know, when did they start? And, you know, where do they see themselves going with your organization? As a consultant, i do hardly and, you know, i don’t i don’t meet with donors and potential donors alone ever and very few of the visits that i am on our discovery visits, you know, where we don’t know the person all that well, but when i was a director of planned giving at a couple of colleges, i should do these all the time, and i remember my head’s spinning with oh, i don’t remember that, but i’m trying to stay in the conversation, too, but you can’t take notes while you’re having lunch, but i remember my head swimming over my gosh, i can’t remember that and that. Oh, and this news about his sister and that relationship, you know? Oh, you know, but there’s so much too, and you get back to the office and you just have to spill it all out and i agree with you, i usedto have ah, client, who said never write anything about someone potential donor or donor at anybody boardmember that you wouldn’t want them to read basically the same standard you had when you said someone could come in the office any time and ask what you have on them. That’s fine, you know, today with with technology having advanced right, i’m hoping that people who were in those positions that you were holding at that time in the plan giving departments and and so forth are using their smartphones and the recording feature not to record the conversation, but afterward, once the meeting has ended and you’re getting back into your car or getting to a quiet place, you know, in, you know, a different space or something like that, just data dump it right in by voice because you can speak a lot faster. Most people can speak much faster than they can write or type, so why not just get it in that way? And then if if you needed to, you know, use a transcription service of some sort to then get it into a print format and then edited from there. I think you know, that could be a particularly great way to use technology. Yeah, great. Cool tip. I like that. You’re right. You can dump into a voice memo. Excellent. I also like your idea of using board members for this purpose idea. We’ve we’ve talked about it, but good many times, but good to mention that also, this is ideal for board members for organizations that have a prospect research person. Do you think that these contact well, i’m going to call them contact report? Because as we used to call them at the colleges, should they flow through the prospect researcher? Or should they go right into the c r, m database and then it’s a prospect researchers job follow-up and read them how does? Because the prospect researcher is the the focal point of a lot of this, the prospect activity? How should this info get to the to that person? Well, you know, it really again depends on the size of the department and the type of cr m that you’re using and who has access to it because some will allow you no board members to have access and others won’t. So then clearly if it’s your boardmember that needs to be providing the information in many cases, they’re not going to have access two, uh, to that database, so don’t need to get it to that prospect. Researcher some other way. If it is ah development officer who does have access to the database. And i do recommend that they inserted directly themselves. If it’s a small organization, if it’s a larger organization with multi level, then you know you would want to make sure that there are certain procedures in place for me. No, but certainly the prospect researcher in some way, shape or form should be alerted that there’s been an update to that record in case there’s, you know any additional updated information that they need to provide? Yeah, right. It could be a simple is ah, niu ah, new email address or you are. Whatever new relationship. Ah, i know. In the in the colleges where i worked which bigger organizations, they the prospect researcher was the like. I said the focal point, and they would pull out something from a prospect research report that would say, oh, you know i should. This is consistent with this other contact report that i read for this other person done by a different gift officer. And these two need to be talking to each other for whatever reason, that was always that was always the done through. The prospect researcher i don’t know is that it makes sense to you. Yeah, yeah, it does. Absolutely. And i can tell you that, you know, having attended various conferences in the past that are, you know, attended by prospect researchers. They would love to be on every one of these donordigital covering visits, making sure that the right questions get asked and so forth. Okay, so this should be from training there, maybe maybe training the gift officers by the prospect researcher. When again, when it’s an organization that has prospect research. I understand a lot of listeners organizations problem may not. But if you do, should there be some training that the prospect researcher was doing for the gift officers? Yeah, absolutely. There should be some sort of training and in terms of not only what they confined online, if they needed to find some information quickly. What are some of the go to resource is when they’re out on the road? Etcetera. But also, you know what air the typical questions you should be sitting down and asking of every single donor and prospect and, you know, ah, good development officer, this should really be intuitive and second nature for them. Um, but if there’s somebody fairly new in the role, or if it’s an executive director who is, you know, that that’s it that’s the only person there is no development officer on, perhaps they’ve been so very used to running an organization and and the day to day management of the organization that they really haven’t gone down the road of of getting trained on, you know how to ask the right questions to elicit the responses we need to move this prospect forward. We’re gonna go out for a break. Marie and i will keep talking about this a little bit. And then she also has, um, unconference dates coming up this summer. That would be valuable for your prospects, research or stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy, tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, a gift. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Got more live listeners in san francisco, california live love going out to there now podcast listeners and affiliate listeners. Did you think i forgot? How how could you live? Listener love always is accompanied by podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections very grateful to all the podcast listeners wherever, whatever device, whatever you’re doing, i love having you with us and all those affiliate listeners in the many stations across the country affections out too. Our am and fm affiliate listeners perish the thought that i would forget podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections. Maria, any last thoughts you want to leave us with on discovery visits and before we move teo unconference ideas? Well, you know, really, just to figure out what what is a donor’s? Why, right? That that’s, what you’re looking to get to understanding there, why to the heart of why they’re investing in your organization and, you know, try and use that language when you’re speaking with them, you know, why are you investing in us? What? What motivates you to continue supporting us? What do you like best about our non-profit? And you know what? Can we actually improve? So try and really elicit some good conversation from them and, you know, you’ve probably heard that old adage tony asked them for money and they’ll they’ll offer you advice and asked him for advice, and they’ll offer you some money. So, you know, it’s a great way to get people engaged in your organization, so don’t be afraid to start those conversations, even if somebody proposes something or says something a little bit on the negative side, take it as constructive criticism and look for areas of improvement. Yeah, you’ve got to hear the negative and a lot of what you’re what you’re suggesting comes out organically, you know? I mean, the person knows that you’re there to talk about the organization, you know, they’re talking about politics or hopefully you keep politics off the table. I always think that’s a bad idea for these kinds of visits, but yeah, they’re talking about the organization that’s, what the two of you have in common, so, you know, a lot of that stuff just gets elicited. I love this program, or i didn’t understand this or i didn’t know you’re doing this thing, but i just read about it in the newsletter, and you know that. Stuff. I mean, you’re right. Ask if it’s not coming out, but a lot of times, it just happens organically because right that’s what you have in common. That’s what? You share, right? Right. All right. So ah, you gots unconference ideas for us. Prospect. Researchers like to meet during the summer. Yeah, absolutely. So the biggie for prospect researchers is the international conference that happens every summer for apra, which is the association of professional researchers for advancement. And this year the conference takes place in new orleans, metoo and it’s going to be july twenty second to the twenty fifth, and they actually also have ah, a new researchers symposium as part of that, uh, they have a full day symposium just for new researchers. So this is a great way to get i think, you know, a full day in, um ah, dedicated to a newbie. And, you know, if you’re just getting your feet wet in this whole thing about prospect research, that might be something well worth while attending. Are you going to the international conference? I will not be going this year. I’m actually attending other conferences, but, you know, this one is definitely if you’re thinking about prospect researchers, this really is the one to consider. Um, you know, there are fall conferences that, you know, we just missed a few conferences that are more regional. So, like in new england, there’s, an organization called nedra, the new england development research association, they they had a conference in april, it was not researchers let’s not look okay, let’s not look backwards, let’s go forwards, but but the good thing about it is that some of those organizations will still put the presentation’s in powerpoint on the website so still perhaps worth just checking into even if you book market for next year. If you’re in those regions, certainly something to think about seeing what what have they shared from the past conference? Cause you might be able to just do a little, you know, your own online learning are these all apra chapters that we’re talking about? Yeah, yeah, they really are there. They’re more regionalized chapters of research association years ago, i spoke a couple of apra chapters, i think in new york and new jersey years ago, back when i know i’m not even sure i was consulting at the time. Maybe more than twelve years ago, but glad they’re still around. Okay, what else? What else you got besides the international? Also coming up in arizona? There’s going to be a false symposium on the topic of campaigns and that’s going to be held november fifth through the sixth in tempe, arizona. So that might be one to consider. And also in california, they have several events going on. The california advancement researchers association have several things on their website, so i’d be glad to share some of these links on your facebook page, if you like and then people can check them out, and if they’re in those regions and see if they want to attend. I love it. Why did you do that? As a comment to the takeaways that’ll be posted around four o’clock eastern today? Sure. Okay. That’s outstanding. We still have another minute or so left. What’s uh, what’s going on in. Oh, i’m sorry. There are the conferences or that you got it. That’s covers it. You know, i think because several have already passed. Those were the ones that i really found that i thought you know, were sprinkled throughout in different places. That you might consider going tio okay, sounds good. Tell me, uh, yeah, now we just have about a minute or so, right, sam? So what what’s going on in your world, what you’re seeing among your clients in our last minute, you know, well, i’m definitely seeing a tick up in activity, capital campaigns and so forth. So, you know, it’s great to see that good news came out with e-giving yusa numbers, and i think that that generally just kind of buoys people a little bit and their spirits. So i am seeing more activity and more research requests because of these larger campaigns and the need to research some of these high net worth individuals before visiting them. So in general, i think it’s it’s all good news. Okay, glad you’re optimistic looks so a beat. Andi, you’re going to be back with me in two shows on july twenty fourth for the two hundred fifty of show. Yes, you’re going to here in the studio? Cool, i will. All right, looking forward to it will be nice to have you institute a sze yu wei would say in latin i’m fluent in latin is a worthless skill, but thank you very much. Good to see you. Good to talk to you. Thank you. You’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and on twitter at maria simple next week. Have i ever let you down? Well, maybe there was that one show on fermenting, possibly. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuing dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we be spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff sam lied. Wits is the line producer gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez on our music is by scott stein. Thank you for that, scotty. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be green. Yeah. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful posts here’s aria finger, ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s, why should i give it away? 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