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Nonprofit Radio for July 6, 2018: Peer-To-Peer Peek & Poverty Porn

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Noah Barnett & Kenny Kane: Peer-To-Peer Peek
Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference shares an overview of community-driven fundraising. How do you plan for, inspire and activate your supporters? They’re Noah Barnett from CauseVox and Kenny Kane with Testicular Cancer Foundation.

 

 

Amy Sample Ward: Poverty Porn
Amy Sample Ward returns to discuss the issues around graphic images and descriptions of poverty. How can you avoid the porn trap and white savior stereotyping, while telling compelling stories and advocating effectively? She’s our social media contributor and CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN).

 

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Duitz hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into righteous, sardonic ous if you expected me to smile when you say you missed today’s show peer-to-peer peak, our panel from the non-profit technology conference shares an overview of community driven fund-raising how do you plan for inspire and activate your supporters? They’re noah barnett from causevox and kenny kane with testicular cancer foundation and poverty porn. Amy sample ward returns to discuss the issues around graphic images and descriptions of poverty. How can you avoid the porn trap and white savior stereotyping while telling compelling stories and advocating effectively she’s, our social media contributor and ceo of the non-profit technology network, and ten tony take two a big lump of thanks responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com and by telling by telus turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream, tony dahna em a slash tony tell us, here are noah barnett and kenny. Kane from the non-profit technology conference welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference hashtag is eighteen ntc where the convention center in new orleans, louisiana. This interview, like all our ntcdinosaur views, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits i guess now are noah barnett and candy cane. Noah is head of marketing for causevox and candy cane is, you know, the testicular cancer foundation. Gentlemen, welcome. Thanks for having us, this’s. Great talent. Yeah. No it’s. Great. Not that in ten things. Not great. It’s. Exceptional. Yeah. It’s. Exceptional. Thank you. And ten. Thank you. All right. Your workshop topic is community driven. Fund-raising how do you use peer-to-peer to cultivate dahna relationships and reach new donors? That sound familiar? Yeah, absolutely. We just wrapped up our session. We’re already done. Yeah, we’re all done outside. Yes. Yeah, we’re on the downswing. So this’s the after party’s victory last put both put it well, community driven fund-raising let’s, start with you, let’s. Start close to know what’s what’s not being done quite right. That non-profits could do better. Yeah, so i think what’s interesting is we’ve gone through a few shifts in fund-raising we went through this idea of there was, like, localized fund-raising back in the day, and then we went to mass fund-raising where we basically didn’t differentiate any of our appeals, we sent all that out. And now today, like, i think there’s a fundamental shift where we’ve moved into what we call the connected economy, where the lines between digital and offline are starting to blur, and that requires a shift in how we approach fund-raising and we see kind of a playbook for the connected economy is community driven. Fund-raising okay, b i like the way you you sort of set this up for us the lines between online and the physical world and our real life are blurring indeed, yeah, okay, so we’re bringing these things together? Yes, okay. Peer-to-peer community driven. Okay, yeah, we’re calling it the connected economy because we’re just connected to anybody anywhere, at any time, through technology and our lives are more connect xero never. So why shouldn’t our causes b similarly should should we be similarly connected to our cause is exactly through our community. Exactly. Okay, kenny, anything you want to add? To the start up? Yeah, i would just say that you know what? The testicular cancer foundation were really big on storytelling and creating compelling stories that resonate with our audience? Not only, you know, as someone who’s been through it as a caregiver myself, but, you know, we try to put ourselves on the other end of the computer screen or the phone. What have you where these stories will compel people to act compel people to donate compel people that take action? Okay, let’s, stay with you. You’re right, your description says and in fact, in bold face, your description says that you will share with us exactly how to do this. How did so where where should we start? Where we’ve been, you know, everybody sees peer-to-peer well, let me take a step back, my ok to synonymous eyes peer-to-peer and community fund-raising or you guys drawing a distinction between those two? Yeah, we’re definitely drawing in this sham. Please set. Educate me. Yeah, so i think what’s interesting is community driven fund-raising is what we’re calling the umbrella that lays over all the various aspects of fund-raising where your community of supporters are actually the key. Driver of success in the campaigns here, it appears your war is a tactic inside of that larger exactly and so in community driven fund-raising there’s kind of a scale of the different types of things that qualify as that that moves from organization led meaning, like the organization is starting a campaign like e-giving tuesday campaign, a crowdfunding campaign, an annual campaign all the way down to supporter initiated, which could be i’m wanna raise money for cancer. And i’m choosing to do that for the testicular cancer foundation. But i decided, as a supporter to do that, he didn’t created environment for me to do that was organic. Okay, thank you so well. Refrain from making those two synonymous. I’m being too narrow. Choosing one method. One tactic. Okay. All right, exactly how kenny. Where where did wish we get started? We yeah, so appealing. But i don’t know where to get going. Sure. So in this rolling in my last role, which was a broader young adult cancer non-profit called stupid cancer. The same rules apply. So you have people who are affected by cancer? Cancer was huge. Yes. Did you have in north, like millions of kids and engaged around. Um, i know you’re probably right way did pretty well. Yeah, it still exists. They’re still there. Still hammered away at it. He’s going to take a little he’s, one of the co founders of super cancer. Yeah. Ok, so? So the long story short is that my father was diagnosed at age fifty with testicular cancer, which put me on a path towards can frat advocacy in my early twenties. And about two years ago, my friend matt first learn who’s, the founder of testicular cancer foundations and eighty want move from new york latto austin i said, sure. Oh, and i’ve taken over testicular cancer foundation. Okay, but getting back to you know that the same rules apply where we serve people who are in a a disadvantage spot going through cancer. You know, whether it’s a survivor, the patient, the caregiver who is helping the person caregivers often forgot. Yes, characters need to take care of them. So i was here to be coddled and cared for one hundred percent. That was made. Uh, so what we do is we see these people go along a path of being recipients of the mission. Being beneficiaries of the mission, and then they come back, you know, to three years out and, you know, they decide they want either run a marathon or they want to create a cancerversary party cancerversary is a really big milestone where on the, you know, annual date of their diagnosis or when they finish treatment which everyone they choose people will give back, and typically they get back to the non-profit that help them? You know, i think it’s probably similar in all chronic health. I know what i know. An oncologist office where they have a bell, you ring the bell, your final treatment? Yeah, i’ve seen a bell if tina got probable. Yeah. It’s a great milestone, you know, on and i had my own i’m sympathetic to caregivers. I mean, i had some sense of it before this, but during the summer this past last year, summer and in the fall so october, my mom was declining and i was my mom. My dad and i were were caregivers and just watched her, and then she actually died early october of twenty seventeen, so i it was became even more became even more aware of how. You need to take care of yourself. I know. It’s just one component of what testicular cancer is doing. Share the caregivers. You know, i often think that they have to be selfless. Andi, can’t you cannot give up your own life, teo, give another to get to another. You’ll burn out there’s a lot of self care that goes into your caregiver. So when we talk about the community aspect of community and fund-raising, you know, and i’m so let the host tigress i’m sorry. Sorry about that. Sorry about mom. Thank you. Host back-up kottler disgust like, welcome to the show cubine xero all week so community german fund-raising candy cane is goingto yeah, so the same rules apply so people go through this process, they come back and for every person who was perhaps turned away from the person going through this acute episode of, you know, not episode, but a stretch of cancer treatment. What? Not whether somebody wanted to give them food or take them to the doctor’s appointment person kind of turned away community driven fund-raising is a great way to really activate your community of people who wanted to help you and in the past, we have created opportunities for fundraisers to convert into things like travel scholarships to a patient conference. So if you’re this arrive, er, you could fund-raising within your community to raise money for travel reimbursement, so it’s not necessarily scholarship, is a little bit more democratic of a process scholarship can get a little tricky. So this skull, this reimbursement program that we did it stupid cancer actually allowed the people around the person affected to help fund their way to the conference while doing ah e-giving back to charity, getting the tax benefits all that. But it was just a really nice way of recognizing what that person had been through. It’s time for a break pursuant. Their newest paper is the digital donation revolution. You’re online donors have high expectations of you because of the swift transactions that they enjoy at amazon. Zappos, even some banks, the digital giving bar has been raised. How do you get over? Get the digital donation revolution it’s on the listener landing page, tony dot m a slash pursuant radio now back to peer-to-peer peak and then so what’s the broader lesson for our listeners in small and midsize shops. But know anybody? Yeah, i think what’s interesting is community driven fund-raising is just a reframing of how we approach raising money and building awareness for the causes that were advocating for okay, bye, basically recognizing the true value that every person in your non-profits community and as a community of supporters, whether they’re known or unknown supporters of your organization, typically we look at it from just a financial perspective. And so what community room fund-raising says, is that it’s not just about the money, that supporter khun give you its about their influence in the time they can give you a swell? And in the connected economy, the influence that a supporter has is actually more valuable than it’s ever been before, because brands are being kind of blocked out of feeds, whether it’s, facebook, it’s becoming really difficult for non-profits to reach any new people. And so by turning inward and saying, how can we actually empower our supporters by inspiring, activating and rallying them? Latto actually be the fundraisers for organization, ok, how do we get? How do we activate this within our own organization way we need to be thinking through sure, who should be. In the team discussing, i feel like we’ve spent enough time on motivation, what are some steps? How do we get started? I’m interested, but i don’t know how to organize myself. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, i think community german fund-raising is just like a lens on how you approach fund-raising and so i think it’s important to have non-profit leadership buy-in but also a fund-raising team in general and communications because communities and fund-raising is basically saying, we’re going to inspire people in our community becomes supporters rather than guilt them, then we’re going to activate those people that have true potential to become fundraisers and advocates for our cause instead of and we’re not trying to convince people to do that. We’re just activating the potential that’s already, and they’re already exists. Exactly, and they were rallying them together so fundraisers usually see raising money and reaching new donors as their responsibility. Community driven fund-raising says no it’s, actually your job to be a player coach and basically see your community is a valuable asset to helpyou fund-raising help you grow your impact, help you reach new donors, but i’m gonna ask you again. But how do we get? Started? I mean, maybe is that identifying certain people to maybe seed the program. I understand you’re not throughout the life of the pregnant thing, okay, you do something, you do something, but we need some seeds. Yeah, i think what we do is all we always advise people to understand the different stages of community fund-raising and so the first stage is inspiring. And so as you look at your current fund-raising whether it’s an event, whether it’s a male piece, how do you look at that piece and see it from a lens that you’re not trying to convince someone or guilt someone to gives your cause? We’re actually trying to inspire them and because inspiration leads to sharing and action. Okay, so so, yes, we wanted to share exactly. And then inside your current supporters, which is the second stage, which is activation, identifying key supporters that are ready to do something more. And so one of our customers world bicycle relief every time someone donates at that moment of inspiration that they’ve someone’s been inspired to support the cause, they want to provide a next step toe activate them to actually be an advocate or a fundraiser for the cause and so it’s something as simple as that by they implement this new program and they’re just asking new donors if they want to do more and presenting the opportunity. And if you apply the commuter and fund-raising methodology, you could find things across your current fund-raising program where you just shift your mindset to be how it can we make this more community focus rather than organization driven it’s sort of empowering them to indeed, i’m just adding another i mean, you’re talking about no inspiring them so that they share and then they take action. Yep, i guess i’m calling it empowering them and giving them well in power and giving them permission and maybe some tools. Two work with yeah, right, the backdrop is shaking video would be stable, it’s not going to fall, but it shook. I would have to say that, you know, historically, we’ve created fund-raising or maybe you donate twenty dollars, to yourself so that you don’t share this fundraiser with a zero balance the same rules apply to when you’re launching a campaign, you really need the buy-in have trusted ah, folks in your, you know, in your group people that, you know will create a buzz, and you certainly don’t want to launch it on deaf ears, right? Yeah, with xero balance, etcetera. You mentioned storytelling earlier, you seem to make a point of how important that is. How does that help us? I guess at the first stage that noah was describing inspiring the community, i think i think it contextualized is and provides insight into your motivation as a fundraiser. How do we start telling these stories? I want to get into the nitty gritty here, so, you know, obviously we’re up against the algorithm of any given social media platform and, you know, you could do it whether it’s, tio email or through, you know, social post, but really providing, you know, maybe a before and after photo in my case, where people are, you know, going through treatment and they come out with a smile on their face, that’s the best case scenario and just really humanizing it. You know, we talked a lot in our session today about being human throughout the fund-raising process, i think it’s really easy to get kind of technical and robotic about it and just create opportunities. For people that self serving, you know, creative latto fund-raising page and then never to be heard from again. I think. Causevox and, you know, i know. Using causevox. We aim. Tio certainly create opportunities for more than that. So you actually have a relationship with the non-profit as you’re going through the fund-raising fund-raising stages and and finishing the campaign about empowering people tell their own stories so that it doesn’t it’s not coming from the organization, but giving them the option to create a two minute self didio or log on their own power way actually saw this firsthand so and ten is a non-profit who hosts this conference, and what they did was they said, how can we raise money for scholarships so that people could come to this conference for free? Who can afford it? And one of the biggest things they did was they said, you know, we have ten board members that have influence and ability to do this and so let’s empower them to tell the community why ntcdinosaur others to them and fund-raising on our behalf, and so they were able to raise over eighteen thousand dollars, and i just saw the banner over there and there’s, you know, fifty, sixty, seventy different donors that came together to help support that campaign, and all they did was they said, hey, boardmember is ur supporters were goingto activate you to tell your story on our behalf, and they did it with did videos they wrote like testimony is different content, and so they didn’t say one thing to the other again. Theyjust activated those supporters and said, hey, can you share your story with the community and raise money on dh. They were able to do that and there’s people at this conference because of what those board members did in the stories that they told you. Excellent. So so starting capital so we’re activating people that they share a men that they take the act take the action of, of actually beginning fund-raising fund-raising on their own as we’re okay. It’s rise. Where going through this process of empowering, i would have described how you describe it. Do we need to circumscribe it a little bit boundaries around it? For listeners, that might be a little leery of maybe the the power they were transferring too much power. Yeah, we’re powering know it talked a lot about this during the session about giving, you know, the non-profit needs to give up a certain degree of control. You want to talk about that? Yeah. And i think that’s why? The third phase of commuters fund-raising is about rallying, not controlling. And so i think our default is well, how do we control this? How do we do this? How do we do that? I think in the connected economy, all the powers with the customer and it’s on the non-profit to realize that their supporters have more power than they think. And so they can try to control them. Or they can really say hey, let’s, rally this let’s, support this and help drive this forward, and so i think if you jump to taking a control position instead of how do we actually rally people in the right direction? Um, you’re going to miss huge opportunities really activate your community. You know, this reminds me of the fears that non-profits had around facebook. Oh yeah, allowing people to come it’s been going on for years? Yeah, come on their facebook page. I don’t know if we’re going to allow those car. Yeah, we should have opened commenting and posted. Yeah, well, circling back earlier we were talking about, you know, the storytelling aspect and in the cancer world and again in the probably the chronic illness world of non-profits it’s a beautiful thing when you have somebody sharing their story, whether we are sharing on the behalf, which is most of the time when you see in the comments let’s say they have a rare type of brain tumor or something like that they’ve never met or connected with another young adult with cancer, let alone somebody who has their exact same diagnosis toe watch that unfold in the comment section where now these people are going to be able to support one another, the fact that you facilitated that on the non-profit side, i’s, amazing and it’s only going to contribute to the overall strategy of activation and engagement getting people teo really buy into your non-profit buy-in to your mission. And you showed a great example that stupid cancer had a different name before it was stupid cancer, and it was, you know, this moment when they said everyone calls us stupid cancer because that’s the tagline so let’s actually switch. So he convinced the founder of the organization to switch the name to stupid cancer and make the name of the organ kapin line right and kind of say, you know, hey, like, we’re going to give power to this community that wants to be a part of this and that’s when they saw growth from two thousand two hundred fifty thousand like you saw hundreds of thousands dollars being raised because they just again said, hey, we’re not going to control this. We’re not going to, you know, they would correct people be like we’re not the stupid cancer guys where the i got every one of the other name it wasn’t i’m too young for this cancer and it’s very slavic, every word. But they gave up that control. And then they saw, like the mo mentum in the community like flourish. And i think what was interesting is that still progressed. What their mission, ford wass maybe in ways they never expected or never would have done themselves. But it’s still pushed the mission forward. And i think that’s the opportunity that non-profits small, large, medium all have today. And we see it time and time again with our customers at causevox and in parallel, you know, you don’t get to decide what school your audience is. The same sort of thing with fund-raising storytelling. All the concepts were presenting today, it’s all about the audience and did, uh, what about let’s? Talk a little more about building this into your annual fund-raising plan? Okay, okay, uh, what you’re the experts. I have a plan now, and i don’t feel like i’m sufficiently community driven or or at all community community supported what i need to rethink. Well, not just what we’ve already covered. But how do we get this in my plan? Yeah, i think what’s interesting is fundraisers have like the same playbook, and they just think if they do more of it that there’ll be more successful. Andi, i think that’s why the burnout rate for fundraisers is so significant in our industry is because they feel as though there’s one playbook to run, which is more events, more emails, more mail in wartime decides that they have exhausted that playbook organization. W ell, move onto organization, yeah, try again no more, yeah, and i think what’s also thing is it it creates this window shopping experience where you’re always looking at other non-profits and being like man, if i only had what they have, i would be able to solve and what we challenged our people that attend our session is that you really need to look at the challenges and reframed them. And so we said is instead of saying, okay, i need to do more of these things, it’s saying as part of my annual fundraising campaign, whether other things like we can do and what we provide, it was saying, how about we take a look at our community and see if there’s opportunities that we can inspire our community, activate them and rally. Them to actually help raise more money and reach new donors. Okay, that’s part of our annual can i would i would add that, you know, people listen, this interview who were saying, all right, how do i deploy this? You certainly don’t want to cannibalize anything that’s working for you, so if you raise a ton of money in queue for, you know, don’t don’t suddenly pivot and say, all right, i’m going to try to spread that out for the rest of the year, and then suddenly you’re exhausted by q for but there’s a lot of little things you can do through out the year like being more human, connecting with your audience, giving up the control is we’ve, you know, keep reiterating on just being more of a social entity, you know, that’s kind of what it comes down to is is it’s not a one way communication channel? It’s you know, the feedback goes both ways, yeah, yeah, and i think it’s, just even seeing the potential and being able to create the opportunities were actually saying we’re asking for more things than money, so a quick story i spent six years running growth at an international relief non-profit and i was overseeing growth, but that was communications and development, and so our major gift officers, obviously we’re hard core, like, go after money, cultivate new gifts year over year, and when i told them when i oversaw them was like there’s, other opportunities for these major donors to make a difference, their influence and their time are really valuable, you know, major donors know a lot of other major donors, and so we continually go back and say, the only thing we want from you is your money. We’re only going to get a portion of their value and so weak went to them and said, hey, you know, would you want to do something interesting by, like, leveraging your major gift to run a matching gift campaign? Or do you want to do a employee engagement campaign at your non-profit or do you wantto basically go into the business network that you’re a part of and share this opportunity, teo promote and inspire other people to support the cause? And what we saw is that the more that we got them to invest, their influence and their time, the more money they like. Well, how do you make those ass? You just picked off like three things? How do you make? So i think in the major gifts side, obviously, you know, it involves, like face-to-face conversations and having a conversation and providing examples of what other individuals but that’s, what people do you wantto do this campaign or, you know, activate matching gift? So what do you make those asks? You want to do your own work? Place campaign? Yeah, so i think obviously in major gifts, it’s different because you have a personalized contextual relationship with that individual. And so if you know that they’re a ceo of a company, you can have a dialogue about that and say, you know, how are you engaging your employees to give back as a community, you obviously care and see your legacy as giving gifts into our organization. How is your company doing? And so it’s having a conversation around that, i think in the broader sense where you’re asking a broader audience to do fund-raising is again making sure that you’re not asking everybody and just being like, hey, this is a new way that you can give to our information are give to our organization rather looking for segments of your audience that are ready to do something, whether that means they’re new donors, they’re volunteers, their board members, they’ve been giving monthly for ten years looking for signals that they have the potential to do something and that’s why we say that second phase is about activation because that means they already have the ability to do it. You’re just activating that, and so it can’t just be this broad sweeping thing where it’s like hey, now you can raise money on x y and z on behalf of our cause. That’s not gonna work. You just ticked off a bunch of very good identify irs indeed you are. Whom i who this might be appropriate for kenny, i want to go back to something that you said earlier. The feedback has to be both ways yet not organization too. Everybody correct this so that involved really listening on the organization’s it’s hard. Sometimes you don’t hear things. I mean, you might not. You’re not always gonna hear things you want to hear. Talk about. You know how how an organization khun sort of shift culture in terms of real listening, engagement that way i think i think you guys were just talking about some really important, which is the signals, you know, in a non-profits situation have a lot of people who will come to the table and, you know, people have ideas, people have always do this, you should do that. And, you know, one of the things that we always say is if you don’t pay attention to mission, eh, you know, mission b, c and d, whatever we’ll all fail. So listening is important, you know, for us, the example of changing the name of the organization was kind of a really big undertaking. When you look back at it, i think that you just have to have a qualifying process, you know, kind of ah, multiphase approach to letting feed back into the top and looking at the person who is suggesting it, and kind of like i said, creating a rubric to take me back in and, you know, you have a border directors for a reason. So if the board is providing you with information, obviously it’s probably a good thing that listen to but also people who were out of the core. Of the apple can sometimes ride the most meaningful feedback and again trying to figure you gotta be you gotta be ready to hear that, you know, not only not only listening to your board and also where they’re coming from, what is their motivation for providing this feedback? And if i can have two things that what we did at my non-profit is first and foremost we had to convince the organization that the donors in our supporters actually mattered so much of our head was like, we’re doing great work, and we just need people to give us money. And so what we did was every week we had an hour designated, so we got leadership buy-in where everybody in the organization wrote thank you notes to donors, and so that started to say, hey, we’re going to center on this, and then we started doing what? Like surveying or net promoter scorer type things where we asked, hey, you know, would you recommend our organisation to a friends, family or colleagues? If so, why? Why do you support our organization? And we actually started using their responses in our fund-raising copy because they were telling us why. They support our organization in a way that was specific that we could actually share with others, and they also told us ideas on how we could improve, and so i think the person foremost is you have to cultivate that idea that you’re actually gonna listen because you value that person’s opinion, and second is you just have to ask, i think we asked for money all the time, but we don’t ask for what people think or why they support our organization or how could we improve this organization? How could we reach new people? We asked that question to a small segment of donors. They gave us tons of ideas that we were able to filter throughout our organization. Good dahna we’re going to leave it there, gentlemen, thank you very much. Thank you for having us. You’re not on the you’re not watching the video. They’re both redheads on thei r noah barnett, head of marketing for causevox and can he came ceo of the testicular cancer foundation and cofounder of stupid cancer? And so i have that right way. Three a curveball and you just handled it. It’s amazing. Oh, yeah. Thank you. You get to use overviewing ingratiate something alright, way where he’s trying to get in by the back i’ve been listening sarrantonio twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ninety see this interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits thank you so much for being with us. We need to take a break, wagner cps in the last two weeks, we had segments on storytelling. You don’t want your storytelling to be so compelling that it leads to restricted gif ts or even or just lots of restricted gif ts regular has you covered their block post is avoiding restrictions from donations inspired by storytelling it’s that wagner cps dot com click resource is then blawg in a moment. It’s poverty porn right now! Time for tony’s take two i have a big lump of listener thank you it’s not segregated it’s not discriminated against by whose name listed first or second or third. And, of course, any discrimination on non-profit radio is benign non video ce discrimination anyway, but we’re not doing that this this week. I am just grateful to everyone who listens to the show supports the show exultant and that i don’t care what platform you listen. What time of day, whether your digital or analog, however, you are listening to the show or supporting the show. Thank you. You make maybe ah, you’re just you’d listen occasionally and you get my insider alerts. So you know who the guests are each week you cherry pick that’s. Fabulous. Take it as you need it. Thank you. To everyone who listens and supports non-profit radio. My video gratitude is that tony martignetti dot com now, let’s, bring in any sample ward. She is our social media contributor and ceo of and ten, the non-profit technology network. Our most recent car, third book is social change. Anytime. Everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s at amy, sample ward, dot or ge and at a m e r s ward. Welcome back, amy. Sample word. Hi. Thank you for having me back. It’s. My pleasure to have you back. This is, uh uh. This is the have you been back on the show since and ten since auntie si thie ntc. I don’t think this might be the first time i think it is. I’m pretty sure because i was leaving you alone. Because i figured, you know, there’s clean up to do and thank you’s to sand and lots of stuff. So, um, and then you had a staff planning. Then you have your staff planning time. Yeah. So to two times a year. All of the staff. Because not everyone is here in the portland office. Let me have some remote dafs. Everybody comes to portland for a week together of planning and craft and happy hour and things like that. Wonderful. Yes. I think they call it staff planning, but planning is not all that we dio excellent. Nor should it be, because you’re all together only twice a year. So you have many vulture virtual employees, so congratulations on a wonderful and fun. And i hope from your perspective, successful certainly was for mine. Ntcdinosaur provoc technology conference. Congratulations. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, i think it was a really good year. You think so? Too good. Yeah. I’m good. I’m definitely fun. I know it was fun. I know that’s. Not a question, but we’re doing it for a little more off. Just the fun purpose fundez one is up, there fundez up there, but education and technology, you know. They rank, too, but congratulations, thank you for being part of it again. Thank you. It was my pleasure. We gotta lot. We got thirty interviews for non-profit. Yeah, great, no, thank you. Okay, so we’re talking today about poverty porn. You said this had come up for you in aa, some discussions or members have been raising it. You’ve you’ve been hearing ah, little more chatter about this. Yeah, i think that organizations are organizations have been criticized for participating in poverty porn for years, but i think those have often been organizations that are really, really big operating on an international scale global scale that are maybe more vulnerable to criticism, because so so many people are saying what they’re doing, and they’re raising so much money. And, you know, with all of that kind of spotlight and revenue, i think naturally organizations, regardless of what they dio, are open to criticism of lots of different forms, right? But now i think organizations, they’re starting to see yes, well, you know, maybe criticize those organizations for years, but also maybe we’re a part of that. And what does that mean for us? You know, you don’t just have to be really, really large organization are making lots and lots of revenue off of a single appeal to have some issues with the way your year doing your work, so i think it’s organizations are starting to see that there, maybe starting to ask more questions because they’re getting, you know, the the digital teams who are managing that content are starting to feel like if something does happen, you know, they’re the ones that posted that photo or sent that tweet or whatever and really wanting to figure out how how to navigate what what’s the best way to tell this story? Yeah, andan avoid a potential backlash. Yeah, um, how would you define this? Do you? Ah, i have a way, but i’m going to hear, you know, how would you define poverty porn? I got i don’t have probably an eloquent, succinct definition, but if i was explaining poverty porn, teo an organization i think you know, without knowing whoever we’re talking to what their mission is, you know, poverty point is when you’re who’s may be taking advantage of the difference between the audience you’re calling tau action most often it’s for donations and these people that you are serving in whatever way, instead of maintaining the humanity of everyone involved in that situation and honoring all that all of those people have and really owning the story. About what you do in the power of in this example, their donation, versace trying to exacerbate the difference and the things that are, quote unquote not had about this group that you’re serving and focusing on that discrepancy, i think to me and is really what it’s about you you’re not maintaining everyone’s humanity and then highlighting the service, you provide your instead, maybe kind of further opening divide and most of the backlashes that i’ve seen or, you know, examples of this on the on the web are our images, but could be written off as easy as you can see, right majority video, but a written description could also be oh, totally exploitative or, you know, you have the language that we use to describe communities we could also highlight that that gap that you’re describing, yeah, um, no it’s ah it’s it’s very sensitive, you know, because we are trying to do very good work and we are motivated and our mission statements are or are around help of this vulnerable population, whatever it might be, whatever country it might be. I mean, it’s not a lot of the lot of the images are from abroad. I mean, i see a lot of, like, south america, central america, africa, but it could, you know, it could be right here in the u s to i mean, you could certainly go astray with images and written descriptions of conditions right here, right here in the u s certainly right, but, you know, so where were motivated by the right? Um, in the right directions, but right, but we, uh, you know, it may just be is easy, if, you know, consciousness raising, which is what our conversation hopefully is doing, and certainly a lot of the conversation, you know, like i saw things back too, like twenty, thirteen or so talking about this subject. So i think a lot of it because our motivations are, you know, i always impute good motivations toe non-profits and most people no, there are good, you know, it’s just raising country business. I mean, i think that is there are lots of tactical things that we could talk. Yeah, you’re right, it’s not just, you know, you’re right your underlying the thing that’s really going to create change is that organizations and the individuals in those organizations actually do some, really hard work two to figure out an address and accepts and try and move forward from all the biases that they’re bringing to their work the again, even if their motivation, their intent internally, is field pure and good to them, it could still be coming from a really kind of dangerous place that they are the savior of that community, right? And that in itself isn’t is a bias that’s going to mean you? You cannot create content, whether that’s, you know, photos are writing these descriptions that not coming from that place, right? So i think doing that internal work to say, gosh, how are we, you know, without explicitly like deciding to do this, how are we already coming at this from not the best a place you know, and as an organization, whatever the practices or policies that we have that can help us change that? I mean, you know, if we want to start at the big picture level, don’t think about tactics, things like do every single one of your staff regularly have opportunities to interact with the community members you serve if they don’t, they’re not in a position to speak from a place where they understand the shared humanity, they understand that everyone both inside the organization and those being served all have strengths and weaknesses and hopes and dreams and challenges and are at a place to really, i think, talk about the work anymore, productive way, you know. So even just at that level are you creating opportunities for every single one of your staff to be a part of the community? I think i’m always surprised how many organizations where they say, oh, no, if you work in the office, you don’t ever talk to the community, only our program staff do that. Why would you do that? You know, why would you create this while the silo between the staff talking about the work stopped deciding how the work is going to be done and the people participating in that work? That doesn’t make any sense to me? And those opportunities need to be more than photo opportunities do no the right there’s, lots of examples, you know, it has to be meaningful, you know, there’s one of the iconic ones, i guess infamous one’s better better than iconic. What if this one’s is, you know, eyes ellen. Too generous in nairobi with lots of kids around her and, um, there’s one of each year in wearing the red nose with liberian children around him. I know so. And what i mean, i think it’s really smart to bring that up, eh? Because now people now everybody listening to our conversation, i can think of the same kind of image, but also that i think totally the kind of thing that organizations i would think to dio with staff, right is like, okay, here, the folks that we serve here’s some of quote unquote us let’s take a photo together and inevitably, these photos like the two you just suggested when you’re years ago, like ellen and nairobi or add in liberia it’s like here is this person in the center of all these other people, and you are both figuratively and literally centering yourselves instead of centering your community. This is now not a photo about those people. This is a photo about you on dh that is kind of the epitome of what we’re talking about here, right? Is that you have come in to save them your services, you’re donations, you or whatever it is. Are literally the center instead of this community truly getting too to be in that place. So i think that’s a really great, like daily kind of check, check and balance for yourself when you’re when you’re looking at two weeks or you’re looking at the way you describe something that you’re looking at, a photo you can just say is this photo centering the people that we’re serving? Or is this photo about us? Um and there are certainly times where photo should be about you, but that doesn’t mean that the photo should be you surrounded by people you served. Maybe then it’s a photo of just your staff at, you know, the conference table looking on something or if you know what i mean it it’s going to be about you make it on ly about you and not you, in contrast to your community. Very good point about figuratively and literally making the individual the center surrounded by the community in need. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. See, that’s why that’s? Why we have you on? Because i looked at the same picture was an idea that did not occur to me. But that’s the brilliance of of aa expert. You know, lots of flecks of expert well, in this case, we have one expert and me, but other other people contributing exper, having experts contribute that’s what i mean, okay, you think about this, you know, it’s value of having multiple multiple opinions and and eyes on something very it was very well said, thank you for that. Altum i was thinking you by where i wasn’t thanking me for what i just said, that that was, obviously, you’re welcome. I always had a defective. I wouldn’t. I would probably not considered an expert perspective, but it is an opinionated one. You bring a lot of insight and used him to the show. Sabat yeah, you know, another part of the problem is that these images, their descriptions, you know, that it’s one dimensional, you know, right? If i’m here or if you swoop in with your donation from the united states that’s going to solve the problem, the child will no longer have empty hands reaching out, you know? And we just have a minute, but weaken, obviously we can keep talking beyond the break. Poverty is multidemensional mean, it includes govern the local community. The local community needs to be empowered, it includes well, and i think thinking about those layers, and we can talk more about this. Those layers of change that need to happen are are important. But also, as we continue to see, the kind of donor base of america change as boomer’s got older and millennials, you know, come into more of the majority in the world of social action that there is also your community. Your audience for this kind of message also knows there are multiple layers and maybe that immediate kind of got reaction of oh, my gosh, this crisis just happened, i want to respond, is there. But if you also, if that’s the hole that you do, you may not be really seen as a sustainable organization undressing all of those layers of change and i think that’s a huge opportunity. No, you’re seeing yourself. Yes, tio. One dimensionally. All right, let’s, take this break. Tell us i have a new tell. Oh, simoni yl for you, quote tell us has allowed my business to support my favorite charity without even feeling the pinch of writing a check. I am donating money every month that i would have spent on credit card processing anyway. Also, their customer service is far better than we’ve ever had. End quote, the businesses you refer are going to love tell us one hundred percent satisfaction among the businesses that you’re among among the business is working with them. Get started with the video at tony dahna em, eh slash tony tello’s. Now, let’s, go back to poverty porn with very insightful example. Ward um, yes, and we were just saying, yeah, it it narrows that the viewers focus to just donate and there’s a lot more that you can do. I mean, and, you know, if we’re talking about bonem poverty and hunger, i mean that that could reach to, you know, advocacy around global climate change policies, which you’re never going to get from these one dimensional ideas. No, and this i mean, i also don’t want to that folks listening now to our conversation up for this idea that every single tweet, every single picture, every single email appeal needs to talk people through. How do you know this action today is connected to this action in this all the way up that’s not what we’re trying to recommend that every single one of those has to include all of that context, but it should always include the context of what really you’re asking for if you are asking for donations for a really immediate need, the donation is still not the actual transaction of those medical supplies. Most likely right? So so at least framing it truly in what it is people are donating. Teo, was there an earthquake? And you’re well, these donations are in part to buy medical equipment and to support those medical teams administering it. Well, that’s also really great story. Who are these medical team? What kind of expertise are they bringing? You know, you don’t just have to focus on transactions because when you do, you make both the donor feel like they’re participating and transaction and the people receiving this support hyre the end of a transaction, i don’t think anyone really means for that i like, you know, back to that good intent, a key intent is not impact, but also even even in this case, i don’t think that’s really what you intend, you know it, so so raise that up and don’t focus on, oh, this is just like your example, before i really like that, you know, now these hands are full does not what happens in here, you know, and so really talkto what is happening and at a a tactical level, you know, there’s, this is opportunity for terrific content. No, you can direct people to interview, and i was talking about fresh content and depth of content there you can tell the story elsewhere, so the tweet is brief. The tweet is briefed, the facebook post, the ad, whatever is brief, but then there’s a link to you know, the back story back-up more to medical in this example who these medical teams are, you haven’t instagram account well, you could do you know instagram stories with either you know, actual quick video interviews update, facebook live there like there’s a ton of rich content you could have when you move to trying to really own what you do and what your story is. Instead of trying to focus on this idea of really, really immediate really, really fast transaction because that’s not the humanity that you want to be representing anyway. Yeah on and and wrapped wrapped up in all this eyes, you know, the idea of that, the important idea that the donations air not sufficient while while they’re necessary and we do need them, they’re not going to solve the problem alone exactly. The bigger context, you know that, and i love your idea, the hero you’re not talked about this a little oaky going well, just you, khun, you can actually then shift the spotlight to some of the work that you’re doing. Like you’re saying, you know, show videos of some of the programs and some of the care that you’re actually giving, you know you can you can shift the lens back to you as the provider, you know, when it’s all in the bigger context, it’s a part of the bigger falik well, i think there’s two things to think about here one is that we talked about before any campaign, whether it’s a fundraising campaign, our advocacy or whatever it’s never gonna have only one ass, of course, every you know, kind of sector best practices. You only have one ascot a time. But once someone takes that action, they have made the donations. They have called their senator. Whatever you need to be ready with another ask because they were just willing to do what you ask them to do. You might as well tell them that to do something else right. So instead of having, you know, here’s eight different things, please do what you want. You give people want and when they do it, you take them to the next step. Then you take them to the next step and you just keep going. And well, from a tactical perspective definitely think about it that way. And from a content perspective, justus you’re recommending i love that get people hooked in and then have them kind of watch the whole thing. Play out right. Continue to see how the work is happening on the other thing to think about, i think, is that there’s a lot to be sad out in the sector right now about how you know there are certain changes in fund-raising that people are more connected to topic than necessarily a single organization that that they’re going to donate to over a year over year, you know that they care more about the topic and whoever is maybe doing something good on that topic is who gets their money. This is a great way to keep people actually hooked to your organisation instead of floating between organizations in the same cause because you’re not just getting them to have a single transaction with you because it was immediate and compelling and kind of hyre fast way for them to feel connected, you have then continuing to connect them to you with these with content, of course, but also with those continued actions, ways where they’re getting deeper and deeper into this and feeling like, yeah, i donated but also high, you know, submitted short message for the medical l came to provide to those children and, you know, they’re starting to actually feel like they are a part of your work, which is the whole goal of this instead of feeling like, oh, i feel relieved that i sent my ten dollars, for that organization, and i don’t even know who they were because it was just the organization i saw on facebook, right? So really shifting how you frame all of this is, of course, as we’re talking about today, you know, getting you out of this trap of poverty porn, but it’s also serving you to build rial community with these supporters? Yeah, it’s the how many guests we’ve had on urging the relation a ll over the transactional that’s you you put a lot of depth into it, but you and i have talked about it and other guests as well. That’s the way to stand out, you know, as you said, that’s, the way to bring people to your cause and keep them there while the ah a lot of a lot of activists and donors are you’re saying maur, mission oriented versus organization oriented. But you know, if you can draw them into your work, they’re right they will stay with you. It’s the relation act it’s the relationship of course. All right, you know, another another facet of this is that all you know, these regions are not monolithic. You know, all of central america, south america and africa are not poor on dh and needy and destitute, you know, there are thriving cities, there’s, beautiful, rich history, culture toe all of these, you know, to all the african nations and all these other parts i’m talking parts of the world i’m talking about. So, you know, e i think you want some balance there too, tuley and i think there’s argument to be made that there are can definitions that we had organizations we as americans, we as white folks can put onto what is ah, community experiencing property or what is a geographic area, that it lacks access to resources that are not going to be a shared definition by the people living in those communities. And i think that really important thing to remember as organizations trying to highlight the service you’re providing or the way that you’re serving that community, is that your definition of of their needs and comparatively to you you know how how quote unquote in poverty they are is going to feel different in their own lived experience, so finding ways where they can authentically talk about again, back to what was said at the beginning, you know, their hopes and dreams, their challenges, their life and the way that they benefit or appreciate the services is going to feel far truer and position your organization into their community than it is for you to say from the outside, you know, look at this community, we’ve kind of defined as needing this and here’s how we’re going to fix, you know, back to that idea that are you centering you and and the organization are you really centering this community? How how are you doing that? Recognizing that part of deciding you know that a certain community is or is not in need is part of that? We’re gonna leave it there. Any simple word? Excellent. Thank you so much for talking about the tony. I know it’s a a scary topic for some, but i think it was a good conversation. I absolutely agree, and we’re not scared to be a little provocative. No, not at all. Thank you. She’s. Amy sample ward at amy, sample ward, dot or ge? And at amy, r s ward, next week, two more from the non-profit technology conference. See sweet cross talk and capacity call out if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profit ofthis, data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps, guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com and by telus, credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us. Ah, creative producers claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by susan chavez. On our music is by scott stein with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. E-giving cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative now, are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in sometime, potentially, ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. Live life your way on talk radio dot n y c geever. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Are you into comics, movies and pop culture at large? What about music and tv? Then you’re in for a treat. 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We kick-off our coverage of the Nonprofit Technology Conference with the host’s leader. Amy Sample Ward is CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network and our social media contributor. Learn why the conference is wildly popular and why you need to join NTEN. I’ve been a member for years. (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of your atrocious if you made me sweat with the idea that you missed today’s show eighteen ntcdinosaur n ten we kick off our coverage of the non-profit technology conference with the hosts leader amy sample ward is ceo of non-profit technology network and our social media contributor. She explains why the conference is wildly popular and why you need to join in ten i have been a member for years that was recorded, of course at the non-profit technology conference and as sametz fund-raising can this help you? Lots of non-profits are successful with it. It’s more than text to give the details of setting goals list growing finding the tech you need andme or come to you from rachel kottler with mask and neil and company teyla dankmyer at up land mobile messaging and sandy fox principle of smart as a fox also recorded at the non-profit technology conference on tony’s take two, my number one eighteen and tc takeaway responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers witness cps dot com bye tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream durney dahna may slash tony tell us here is the kickoff of ntcdinosaur bridge with eighty ninety seay and antenna and amy sample ward welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference. This interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor and fund-raising software for non-profits we’re in the convention center in new orleans, and this is our interview number two of our coverage, and i’m very pleased to have made me stop award with us. Hello, aimee semple work. Hello interview number two i’m sad i didn’t get number one. I think i should have hustled you. I should’ve hustled. You were booked or we were booked already. Yeah, these interviews go fast, it’s true, they do go fast on non-profit video. Amy, of course, is the ceo of intent, the non-profit technology network and the social media contributor for non-profit radio. Now, when we’re on, we’re on non-profit radio, but not here. We say your social. Media contributor and ceo of intent. Yes. You gotta flip it. Yeah, but here it in ten. Your ceo first. Yeah, i appreciate that. Okay. Yeah. That’s. What? That’s. Really? Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah, you’ve been working. The staff is working very hard on this for months and months. It’s true. Hopefully it feels like we worked hard, but that we are not working hard now and that you do not see a lot of stress on us now, i know. I see a lot of fun. Good. Okay. Good. Haley was very fun. Way checked in. Everything. Oh, good. Nice. Um, nothing. He came by today giving us high. Yeah. Um, before we talk about in ten, let’s, talk about eighteen ntc. Yeah, i saw thirteen hundred and twenty first time. First time attendees. Congratulations. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, yeah. You like that? You like, like, the first time we like our first timers. Yeah. I mean, it’s not. I think there are some folks who are in a position both too, really, really want teo and really, really be able to come every single year, regardless of location. But we also hear from a lot of folks. That that’s not really the way their organization has budgeted what we actually hear a lot of is that people come one year and then they rotate through their team so that each person gets to go, for example, every three years and, you know, they rotate who gets to go, so even those they’re great fun? Yeah, totally. Food is excellent. Totally. So we’ve got, you know, about half of the attendees are first timers, but when we do, when we run the numbers on, if their organization is first it’s much lower because it’s that individuals first time that the organization has been here in some way or another in the past, right, more people being exposed, yeah, exactly which is kind of part of our goals that it isn’t just one person in an organization trying to do this work right now that we know that intent is not only for technologists exactly. We don’t only want the technologists if you have one, right? If you have an apple and if you have one exactly, listeners do not. But if you do, we don’t want that person be the sole person coming right? I’ve already met a couple of other ceo executive director’s exactly how many total attendance here? I haven’t seen the final number, but people were even registering still yesterday. So i think when i saw it yesterday, it was that twenty one twenty three. Something like that so well, over twenty, one hundred, we’ll just leave it at that and not have to get a specific number. Two plus. Yeah. Excellent. Ah, one hundred thirty sessions, one hundred thirty sessions over three hundred speakers. Over ninety percent of sessions have at least one non-profit staff member speaking. Yes. That’s important? Yes. You like to go beyond the consultants? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What’s that’s gonna share about non-profit we’ve have ah, we’ll have twenty five or twenty six. Interview scheduled. Wow. The over the two and a half days. Yeah, very pleased with that. I didn’t. I didn’t count the number of most most are panels of at least two. Yeah, a bunch of threes, even even a sprinkling of force. Wow, i have to have some double up. Mike’s. Yeah. Um, so i don’t know. We’ve got twenty five to fifty, seventy five it’s got to be eighty, ninety speakers, i would think. Wow. That’s. Awesome, yeah, significant portion. Yeah, um, what else about what else? About eighteen, ntc. Well, well, one of the stats, i guess you could say that i shared this morning, was, you know, and ten has hosted the ntc, but also the community had been self organizing even before antin started. So, in a way, the ntc has lasted longer than intend, but for all intensive purposes will say as long as in ten. So, you know, nineteen years. But we’ve only been in new orleans one other time, and that was ten years ago, and there are sixty four, folks registered who were at that anti seat to, yeah, you love data way. Well, it tells such an interesting story, right? Sixty four different people, and of those sixty four, the vast majority of them. It was their first. So new orleans was there first, and they have stayed for ten years. So hopefully, you know, a lot of those thirteen hundred. All right, we’ll stay for ten years. Now. We know that they’ve stayed, yes, not like they came ten years ago, and then they skip nine years. No another back, that’s what i mean, they skipped a couple at different times, but pretty consistently stayed the whole time. Okay, yeah, just wantto. Durney any questions lingering about pressure, about, share, the validity of what we’re saying, yeah, don’t question the data, okay? Falik challenge, yeah, that’s fair, healthy challenge. Eighteen ntcdinosaur at. You know, i know something once but you, you are actively. Pursuing something that you and i have talked about, ok, on eighteen ntcdinosaur it is the the affiliated but non not official activities. Maybe i’m not calling them the right thing, but you know what i’m talking about? I’m just not going there, i think. Ntcdinosaur hyre okay. Yoga morning run explorer, the french quarter, but journaling buja e i thought i thought bull journaling was twitter, but i was mistaken. So these are things that are organically created. Bye bye community members coming here, but you give them a template and a format to follow, and then you have some disclaimers. You know, it’s not our event need to coordinate with people who are creating it, but it’s it’s an organic growth you’re empowering the community to take the conference and mold it the way they would like it to be in some small respect, yeah, totally it’s time for a break pursuant, they’re not just producing valuable digital content on the listener landing page. O goodness no, they’re professional fundraisers and campaign counsel. They can work with you on sight or remotely to get your campaign started or if it’s flagging to get it re energized assessment case. Development major gift prospecting, volunteer coaching, campaign management all of that stuff. They do it all start at tony dahna slash pursuing radio. Now, back to amy. Sample ward. Say more about that. Yeah, there are a lot of different aspects. So there are some things that we definitely take kind of use your language a little bit more effort and do create the template and some examples and get them going and that’s things like the diner rounds. So anton actually does basically nothing for that. We just say you should go to dinner with five other people. Here is a google doc where you can write down where you have you just call, make a dinner reservation anywhere for six people. Put it in this document, and then five people add their name. Total strangers that want to go to dinner with you. And then the next person just copies the same, you know, table puts in. I’ve made a reservation under my name at this restaurant. Do you want to go there? Five people add their names before the conference even started, every single dinner spot was fall. People were calling us and asking for help making. More reservations because restaurants were false, everybody wanted to be able to go, and i think it’s a great example both of what we do but what anybody can do the community is happy to self organize, but they often don’t know what’s allowed or what would work. They’ve never been there. They don’t know what the restaurants are, they see sametz samples and i think, okay, i too, can call a restaurant and make a reservation for six p m and that’s all i have to do, i don’t have to know those people. I don’t have to go recruiting, solicit yeah, i don’t have to recruit friends to come and ten will promote that the dying around is happening, and now i get to meet five other people. We all just pay for our own dinner like that, you know, there’s, no other logistics that i think people get intimidated by in trying to be a part of an event like i have to get six people who are going, we’re going to the conference and right? And how would i find them? And yeah, and i think that’s true, certainly in person events like this, but all the time in organization, so long as you give people the template, you know, you tell them what the lanes on the the bowling line are, they want to do it, you know, and they want to have a place, especially when it’s something like this that lets them connect with other community members, you know, and meet people, and we all have to eat dinner, right? So why not, you know, do it in this path for smart? Yeah, it’s and is consistent with what you and i have talked about on the show, right? Organic growth within the community? Yeah, exactly. Some boundaries ends a little assistance. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and like you said, i think the disclaimers are important, not toe, you know, not what brings past that, you know, to make sure people know and then is not responsible for your dinner reservations if you didn’t make it, we don’t know any details about, you know, so just and i think that goes with creating the guidelines or whatever. So they know where the organization stops and you, as the community member, have to start with responsibility. But after that, i mean, you’ve seen people just totally take it and build it how they want it to be. I don’t see that a lot of other conferences that kind of allowing that spaces take it. Yes, tio, take it in a direction where you’d like to, you know, very simply and within reason. That’s got a lot. I know you don’t want to trash talk your your your conference competition, but yeah, bond, i’m not trash talking, but i don’t i don’t i don’t see it. It’s part of the special sauce event ten. How do you come up with these good ideas? That was that. Was that a staff driven idea? Yeah. I mean, a lot of these ideas are staff driven ideas that we see in other places, not even necessarily other conferences, but just another aspects of our life. For we read a book blogged about something, and it gave us an idea. But we have all staff and t c meetings, you know, all year round and staff just bring ideas to those and say, oh, i was at this event in town this weekend, you know, for my knitters group and somebody mentioned this. What if we turned that around and did it this way for the anti see, you know, and then staff either say that’s a horrible idea. No. Or yeah, let’s do it. And who wants to be on the project team and let’s build out a plan. And a lot of it comes kind of through staff. But from the community, you know, from from engaging with them, hearing their ideas and a lot of our online groups. The different kind of topical peer groups that we have, we’ll bring ideas to, like, they’ll be having a monthly call and discuss something and say, is there a way we could turn this into an open conversation at the ntc was such a interesting idea that we had. I bet more people have ideas to share, and then we work with them on, you know, creating a space for that conversation to happen. You know, let’s, talk a little about staff. Yeah. How many? How many staff? Fourteen. Okay. And not all in portland, oregon. No. Portland is our only actual office, but then we have three virtual staff. Three virtual. Okay? Uh, yeah. You know, i love intern you doing? Remember? You’re on the show every month. Yeah, and you have been since show number one hundred. Yeah, coming up on four hundred, oh, my god. S o that you would’ve joined in two thousand eleven. We started in july of two thousand ten. You would’ve started in july of two thousand eleven on and you’re coming up on seven years. July. Wow, really? I think i have that right because you were on the first time you around was shown number one. It was, and we’re coming up on show number four hundred. So, however you slice that that’s, another three hundred shows, six years, it’s, six or seven years. Wow, that’s. Awesome, you know. And when you were at the time when you first game, you were never membership director, yeah, before you became before you were promoted, moved up tio tio. Yeah, but also i love intent. I love it so much. Sometimes i over think it. But, you know, the staff is i mean, the staffers, like motivated, yeah, motivated and driven are synonyms. So there’s, no point staying motivated, driven, but like a bee. Ah, a little bee colony, and they call it a day, and they, you know, they really just care about interacting with people in helping the broader mission, which is smart and use of technology that you listeners people in small and midsize non-profits can focus more on your program in mission work and not stress so much over over tech, right? Did i did i phrase that, yeah, that’s all great, yeah, okay, so smart staff it’s, not even possible toe shout out the people who have worked on eighteen ntcdinosaur because it’s all it’s, all staff? Yep. Okay, all right, yeah, i believe that there. Then let’s talk about and ten as a membership organization as more than just his conference, as awesome as it is every year. And then in the end, we’ll ask about remind me if i forget about nineteen. Ninety? Okay, whatever we can say about nineteen ntcdinosaur forget great. Okay, um, intense it’s. A very affordable membership for for non-profits. Right? Correct. Yes, you are. You acquainted with thea? Well, levels of how just how affordable it is. Well, our membership dues if you you could join us. An individual just joins individual. But you could also join as an organization. And if you’re joining as either a non-profit aura for-profit, both organization types have dues levels based on your annual budget. So if you are a really small organization, you only be paying seventy five dollars a year for all of your staff. Have membership way. Don’t count. How many staff do you have that i want to remember? As many staff won’t participate? Yeah. The organization has a membership for them. Yes, exactly. On then. And then the tears go up from there. But you can see by the fact that small organizations are at seventy five it’s. Not a lot, regardless of how large your organization is. And what do you get for your seventy five dollars? Well, ah lot. Of folks at this, you know, here at the nbc now know that they get a massive discount on their ntcdinosaur ation. That is a big perk. For sure. On dh, you get discounts on all of our other educational programs, including fifty percent off the price. If you are trying to achieve your professional certificate so that’s a huge discount to get a professional certificate. You have a profession. You have a certification program now, right? Yes, we have. Ah, non-profit technology. Professional certificate. Okay, yet we’ll talk about that, too. Okay. Now try to remember a few things. Okay? Non-profit technology certificate. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So what send off educational programs? But when we asked members what has the most value for them and what’s most important to them about being a member it’s less of the transactional discounts and much more about getting to be a member of this community come and getting to find those people that can answer their questions when they did them answered, but also find those people who could answer questions they didn’t know they had. And they just want some colleagues, you know, they just want people that they can connect. With regularly and you could do that virtually there also meet ups around there in person, tech clubs that are kind of monthly free events, lots of online groups, tons of online content, and we see a lot of that in ten community really engaged on social media to especially twitter, and you don’t need to follow-up necessarily the organization if you don’t want to. But if you follow the hashtag and p tech for non-profit technology there’s just so much they’re happening that’s really, this community using that hashtag let’s talk about some of the virtual communities that you do communities of practice, though i have that right way, just call them online groups, but they are essentially a community practice. You know they’re kind of peer groups, and many of them are formed on a topic like digital communications or using wordpress for your website so things that maybe are a part of your professional identity. You know what your job is or what you do at work. There are also a few groups that are a little blurry between professional and personal identities a women in technology, for example, but you can also create a group if you see that there is not a group for you, we are happy to support you creating that group and you could become an organizer and we’ll help you make sure people are in your group and they’re engaged and you have access to all of our tools. You can run a free monthly call or webinar, you know, whatever you want to do to engage your group, you don’t have to you put in the time and we cover the costs. And do you need to be a member of inten pretty joining those krauz groups, you know, that’s that’s, part of let’s talk about that part of your mission, which is goes beyond the membership, right? Yeah, i mean, ultimately and ten is a five oh, one c three non-profit like, basically everybody else in the community were not in association. We don’t. I believe in having a big pay wall that says you can only access our content are access the community because you paid to get that access because if we did that, we wouldn’t meet our mission and we wouldn’t be able to reach as many non-profits as we need. Teo, that need help. So it’s a pretty open community. And we hope that that helps people, whether they can pay or not still benefit and the tech meet ups around the country. Do we know how many? You know how many? Well, there’s a couple dozen that were brought also. Yeah, we do have some in canada and over in europe. Okay, yeah, a couple of dozen in the u s okay, but of course, you know, you always have the virtual groups exactly fall back to. Yeah, there is. And if you and if there is an attack club in your city, you can also start one of those. We’ll help you support that, too. Okay? Okay. Um, what else would you tell me? Uh, tell me what else you want to talk about. That professionals. And if we get well, we’re going to get way, way. Have a little enough time to talk. Ok. I know. I did write down. So now i can remember. Okay, nineteen, ninety sea and also the commercial traffic you’re off the hook. More about in ten. What? Oh, no. Anything any insider? Who? Anything. Insider group. You know it’s, a smart group. You know, we try. To not have any inside knowledge. Really? I mean, you know, we have quarterly town halls where we share what’s happening behind the scenes were working on what’s going on, folks ask us questions, we always answer them publicly, you know, we we really try to not have inside, i mean, other than like, you know, how the sausage is made kind of way we do still share that we actually get a lot of questions in the summertime about hey ntcdinosaur great, would you have a call with me? And, you know, teach me how you did dine around xero how you did birds of a feather or some aspect of the conference that other folks liked and staff always take those calls and tell other organizations how to do the same thing that we do, but we don’t necessarily write it all down publicly because it would be the most boring long you’ve ever way community be much more grateful for a twenty minute phone call. Yes, a twenty page document, right? Yeah, she sure is what we did and three sarah more i mean, you’re you’re chatty group yeah, people we like chat, they do they do. You do, you neo-sage okay, let’s, let’s, talk about the certificate, so taking pictures. Thank you for shooting picture. Thank you, where’s. It gonna be twitter, tweeting. Okay, thank you. Yes, we love well, his pocket and twitter. We’ll stick with the twitter. I won’t pursue the pocket check ben’s twitter right now, then let’s, give me showed up. Yeah, then bisbee. Yeah, yes, it is, ben. Welcome to the welcome you want to. You want to pull up what has been due. No, no, no, because we’ve already shared ben’s name and that’s enough for ben it’s. Good. Okay, osili. Ah, on saying not with just in case i don’t know, we’re picking this up on micro ben is saying not with not with the c e o all right, all right, well, thank you for thank for promoting. You hear what he said? Well, i don’t know if anybody i didn’t hear that part. So, listeners, i’m not cheating you out, okay? Thank you. Ben bisbee for that little fly by. Alright, the non-profit technology certificate? Yeah. Is only a couple years old. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What? What is it about? Well, we have heard from this community the you know, the broader and time community for many years at this point that there are a few different kind of career struggles. One is that most of the people here, even if their title is technology or they would identify themselves that technologist very fuel folks in the community have a technology degree, right? People didn’t go to college for a computer science degree and to advance in a career path that is focused on technology. Our institutions have not really embraced that that’s not how people come into these rolls, right and so there’s a lot of folks. Facing the reality that to get a promotion or to get that director job that, you know, they have twenty years experience working in non-profits managing technology, there’s no reason they can’t have that job, but the job description says they have to have aa degree in that field, right? So we’ve here we’ve heard a lot of that struggle and frustration and that, you know, institutions aren’t moving as fast as the community is, and we’ve also heard a lot of people say, i know that i have these skills, but as you will appreciate, i think all your listeners will appreciate our titles in non-profits are not often representative of all the wee d’oh and to apply for another job and say, oh, yeah, i managed our website, but my title was communications coordinator, no one really gets that. I do have those skills, i do have that experience, my organization was really bad a job titles that doesn’t mean, you know that that i didn’t do it, and so we created a professional certificate both to give people the knowledge and the kind of certification that they want and for those other folks who feel like they have a lot of knowledge teau help make sure it was rounded out and comprehensive across an organization so that both of those paths could say here is a way for me to demonstrate. I do have this knowledge, i do have this experience and i am qualified for whatever job i’m applying for, and we have been really thrilled that even in the first few people that that graduated with a certificate, they were writing back to us saying as soon as i had that certificate, i applied for this other job and i got a promotion and a different department, a different organization. I am able now to communicate that i do have these skills, so that was like exactly what we wanted to hear when we started. And now over fifty people have gotten a certificate and many more are in the process with a few more courses to go. So, yeah, it’s really it’s weird, we are trying to not be surprised because we didn’t design this ourselves. We didn’t come up with the idea of it ourselves. You know, this was many years of listening to what the community needed and just answering that call. And not designing something in private by ourselves, you know, when we were piloted this content in different forms and through other programs where we could kind of test it for a few years before we released it as the certificate. So we’re trying to not be surprised because we know we did the right work on we did you know, we did a good process to get here, but honestly, we are still surprised because even when you do it well and you do it right, you’re still nervous that, you know, no one will come or that it won’t be the thing that the community wants and it’s great, that it has gone so well, and now we’re working on developing just a lot more courses, so i guess i’ll backtrack and explain the way it works. Is that there’s a ten week kind of tomorrow? Some language from college is, like required content that everybody has to dio yeah, yeah, and then outside of that, in order to get the certificate, you have to do at least five other courses and those you can choose whatever topics you want and that’s our way of helping people kind. Of focus or say, my knowledge is really in this area, you know? Yeah, if you’re going kind of for a specific angle or have it all over the place and show that you’re more diverse with your experience, eso we’re really doing a lot to build out that kind of curriculum, essentially so that people could do a much more tailored focus like i have a major, you know, like like borrowing that college language, so we’re building that i think there’s over forty courses on the website right now, the people can choose from and continuing to add to that. Right now, we’ve done a lot toe add a number of courses specifically around digital equity because that’s something certainly in line with our mission but also a much more harder field for people to find content around. Even within and tens world, you could find a course on digital marketing or online fund-raising technology management or budgeting? Eso we weave also given ourselves the challenge of making sure we haven’t a lot of content around digital equity and what that means for designing your programs to reach communities who maybe not online. How you make your own organizational strategies that kind of thank you on dh. People will find information about the certificate at, of course, that in ten dollar yep. And tn dot org’s. Did you get initials after your name? Is that kind like? I mean, we could come up with some initials. Way could come up with somebody, you know. So in ten dot or gue, you know, join the organisation for pete’s sake. I’m a member. I’m not just not what we say. Tony can be about. So you can be one of technology, but i learned a little bit every month for maybe okay, we got to do a quick shout out for nineteen. Ninety let’s do what we know dates. We do know dates, okay? Yeah, we will like t c it’s, it’s, technically, public knowledge. But we haven’t directed anyone to the public knowledge, so we’ll we’ll announce it more formally on friday. But it’ll be in portland and tens hometown, portland, portland i’ll get to see really the food drive? Yeah, yeah. The food car starts the trucks in new york courts. Important? Yes, we’ll get to sleep in our own beds for once is the conference staff and it’ll be in march. The thirteen through the fifteenth. Okay, so that’s just like this. Where? It’s a wednesday. Thursday. Friday so everybody can stay the weekend in portland? Yeah, long time. They’re seeing you getting to get to know maximal. Better access. Ah, max. Max. Sample ward? No, just mac’s. Ward. Yes. Maxwell maxwell. Amy’s husband eyes he stage managing today he is he’s back there with a headset on. Okay, we got a rabbit there. Thank you. So oh, and very night. We got a rat with this it’s. So good to see you in person. Yeah. It’s. So great to get teo to share a microphone. A microphone table. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for having me and thank the staff. I will. I will. I love it. I will remember for join the organization in ten. Dot org’s. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. This interview sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. Thanks so much for being with us. We need to take a break. Wittner cps. And you eat lunch too. You need to talk to you. Um, first, check out the firm at wagner cps dot com naturally going to start you due diligence there. Then pick up the phone and talk to you. Eat. You know, he’s been on the show. So he’s bona fide he’s friendly, no pressure he’ll explain to you how wagner can help you from doing your nine, ninety up to the annual order that you need weather cps dot com now time for tony’s take two my number one takeaway from ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference in new orleans a few weeks ago. I’m luv to reveal it because if i do, you’re not gonna watch the video it’s about your ceo and if you are ceo, then it’s about you. My video is at twenty martignetti dot com that’s all i can say goodling dot com i’m a safe too looked our founder of good link at goodland dot com non-profits connect with businesses that advanced their missions when i want the best connections i listen to non-profit radio good link. They are a new marketplace. Where non-profits meat vendors? No cost to you as a non-profit it’s your bridge to products and services and i’m helping them get started. See what you think. Check them out, please. Good link dot com and its link with a c now it’s time for our panel on sametz fund-raising welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference hashtag is eighteen ntcdinosaur in the convention center in new orleans and this interview like all at ntcdinosaur sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software four non-profits i guess now are rachel kottler, taylor dankmyer and sandy fox. Rachel see the closest to me is digital account manager at lautman master neil and company taylor is mobile strategist at coupland mobile messaging. I said it right, it wasn’t troubled, but i did, and latto pat myself and sandy fox is founder and principal consultant for smart as a fox l l c rachel teller, sandy welcome, thank you, thank you. Have you thank you? I’m glad you’re here, too, and your workshop topic is raised. How much with sms mobile programmes let’s start down there with sandy fox? Give us some motivation why mobile should be part of our fund-raising plan moguls to be part of your full integrated digital strategy, it should be part of fund-raising it should be part of your advocacy. G part of your engagement with your supporters period and and that’s complex, i’m correctly you first what i said you said for fund-raising fund-raising oh, yes, ok, i’m saying it could be a part of your full digital strategy to be integrated into everything you do, and that is your makeup just took their better that’s a little bit ago, and and that is because everyone is on mobile. You want to meet people where they are and ninety five percent of americans have a mobile phone. Seventy seven percent of americans have a smartphone on, and so when you are texting them, they’re more likely to read your message and see it and respond and engage with you as an organization on and really feel like they are part of the organization. Okay, part of your total engagement strategy, okay? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I’m the remedial student of we need to bring me along happy. Teo, just hold up there. Yeah. Don’t be so willing, hyre okay, uh, no. Okay. Let’s, let’s, jump right in. We know that open rates are very high. All right, open rates are they are yes, they are. But what i like to say is i don’t like using the term open rate because when you think of open right, you think of email, which is something that you can actually track, you can say this money people opened an email out of the people you sent it to you. Where is you can’t technically track how many people see your tax message, but we know from studies that the majority of folks who get a text message actually do read it, ok. And rachel, don’t they open them very, very quickly, too? Yeah, most people open their text messages within two minutes of receiving it, and if you think about it, most people like get an anxious feeling. If they see in their phone they have text messages that they haven’t read yet. So that’s why, when we talk about open rates, were talking about the fact people actually are opening the text messages and seeing it, whereas email like i’m asked actively at this point, i mean, there’s, just so many emails coming in every minute, emailed that still have some credibility. Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, your heart rate actually goes up when you receive a text message that is a a real study behind the physiological change. Yes, in the body. Yes, when you receive a text message, she mentions, he kind of gets a little ankle. You have until you, you get excited until you have read it. There’s, a fizzy latto. Alright, thank you. I’m gonna okay. Tell her i’m gonna put you on the spot. Labbate i ask this of another group. We’re a couple of sessions ago sessions ago we were talking about sms and i said, surely there’s gonna be another technology sometime down the road. I don’t know if it’s under development now it may very well, maybe maybe not, but there’s good. There will be something that’ll be more urgent buy-in sms and we’ll end up trumping s enough. Doesn’t that seem inevitable? Maybe. I mean, i think people have been thinking that estimates was going to go away at some point. And that’s still hasn’t happened. Sort of radio. You know, the platform run right now. People think radio is going to die. Radio is not going anywhere. It’s just kind of adapted over time. Were also yeah, right. Exactly. This is the back to the point. So videos in the name? Yes. No, i took yet. Still still on audio medium, right? So audio focused you have exactly. No, i got you so that’s. Kind of. Yeah, s o i think of other i don’t know. I know i have to tell her i didn’t do it. Because you’re sitting close like you got. Okay, so but to go back to your question. No, i wasn’t i wasn’t trying to trash radio, actually usedto as an intern, it was an intern. I did some school stuff in high school on a pr. So it’s got yes your npr radio radio is a very personal yes, i don’t know. Yes mess i don’t think i am fm is going anywhere exactly. We’re finding ways to engage with even more in our in our exactly. And so i think that’s kind of what we’re seeing with messaging. We talked about different ways that people are using text messaging, um, different messaging tools. So now we’ve got, you know, facebook messenger and whatsapp and all these tools that are used what we consider quote unquote, over the top messaging. So over the top of what i guess that’s the mess, but those tools are continuing, developed, they’re not as ubiquitous as sms sms is a standard that is on everybody’s phones we don’t have exactly what’s that thie sms to point it will be rcs rich communication services. It hasn’t it’s still in development, it requires the carriers to basically improve it so it’s very slow, but once it comes around, it will sort of be a new age, just a mess. It’ll have a lot of new features to it. Seattle it’s difficult going anywhere. I don’t know if there’s anything like there’s, no thing that’s going to replace it. But if it is it’s, it’s, different messaging tools and, you know, rcs, if that actually because think what you will articulate, they’re always be early adapters, something new, but it’ll take a long time for folks to catch up to it. You know, for instance, like i said, we have ninety five percent of folks have a cell phone by. Only seventy seven percent of folks have a smartphone, so we know that there’s that gap right there, right between that ninety five. Sensitive to that two things are not always riding a link to clear exactly which is why we tell jokes. Sometimes a really great wayto engage your audiences, ask him to respond and take action within the text messaging platform. So tech sign or and then give us your zip codes. You consign this petition that’s why phone calls are so successful through mobile devices. And texting it’s because you’re always already on that platform, we ask you to text call and oversignt you’re calling your senator so yeah, and you’re rachel greene to bring it back into fund-raising if you think about it, i remember maybe five years ago, my father who’s, the target donorsearch age, he, like, refused to text with me. He just wanted teo email me and now he texts me every day we have a family chat, we’re on, we get pictures, see baby pictures, everything like that. And so, i mean your donor’s air now using text, getting more comfortable on their phones and poor and toe add a stat that every year over the last three years, it’s increased by forty percent, the number of people who have given beer their mobile devices. So with the last three years, forty percent forty four section order year after year after year, and my father is one of those folks to who now is on a text that i used to take a picture of an article and send it to me on dh he very, very cautious of identity theft, but i think he’s getting to a point where he would give on his mobile device. Okay, taylor let’s talk about some of the gold star talked around them a little bit, but what, aside from fund-raising what else can we do with that? Sametz yeah, going backto what sandy was saying, you know, actually it’s kind of knew that we started talking about fund-raising over s a masked people didn’t directly think of building enough sametz program five, ten years ago, just about fund-raising it didn’t seem to make sense, people were afraid they weren’t going to donate over text that’s starting to change for sure now, and we talk about people are comfortable that so most of our customers were just engaging like they are in all their other channels, so there they’re they’re educating them, they’re asking to make calls they’re, you know, sending the videos, they’re asking for them for their supporters to send in content or pictures of, you know, maybe them at an event, um and also crabbing lots of information, i mean, in some ways what we first started doing this, it was essentially ah, let’s have people text in when they’re in an event and let’s grab their emails and names. Because one collecting hundreds of people’s names at an event on paper is terrible and awful for everyone involved, but also this’s just much easier if organizations to handle and we know that they’re going once they text in its very likely, they’re goingto quickly respond. They’re used to having conversation overtaxed, you know, so the more we can make it conversational, like it is with their family and their friends, the better off we are, and because of those open rates and response rates now, you can collect a lot of information very quickly. So none of that answers your question, but a few things about it. Breaking, breaking news alerts. People are looking at their phones right away and their text messages. I mean, already today we all got, like three texts from different organizations about paul ryan announcing that he’s not running again. I’ve been doing interviews. I didn’t hear that, yeah, ryan is not your first. Okay, well, now, by the time this airs, it’ll be old ways, but i’m intrigued, okay? Mary-jo dahna part of your workshop was spent talking about human rights, human rights campaign. They did very, very successful. Who’s who’s, the nobody’s from hrc here who wants to talk about on why they’re a model to follow so i can’t talk about that. So i’ve been working with hrc for about three and a half years now on their e mail and mobile fund-raising and advocacy programs drew from hrc was on the panel with us when it wasn’t through here. He’s too cool, no that’s, not the reason true he’s, very cool, very busy provoc idea was important, man all right, well, i’m a shout out to drew he’s awesome hey is the person you get the text from for hrc. I would say part of the reason that they’re mobile program is so good is because they’ve actually been around a lot longer than other organizations. They were an early adopter of mobile and they’ve been able to really invest in it and try new things to testing segment their list, use it for calling congress use it to raise money use it, especially around some supreme court decisions as a wayto both engage and grow supporters and also to tell people breaking news and get them to donate and become members. You’re using it robustly, using it for a lot of different, not different purposes. What specifically can our listeners in small and midsize shops we’re all very cool? By the way, our listeners a cool on this show is cool? I’m not. I don’t know about this guy drew, i don’t know him, so i’m not going to say it’s his life. He chose not that it’s just like he’s the better answers he’s busy he’s a very important guy. You know what can? What can our listeners take away from hrc? Aside from the lots of white gold lots of different diverse goals with it, what else can we take away? I would say first, take away if you’re trying to start from scratch, start adding a mobile field collection, tow any petitions and forms you do online that’s how hrc first started to collect numbers and grow their list and at a spot for it on your website so you can get started and second if you’re doing male and you have people’s mobile numbers start integrating if you’re setting an email and you have mobile, send a text with the e mail, send a text with the mailing that way. It’s a quick little reminder for somebody and it’ll help with your multi-channel strategies. Okay, what are these he’s solicitation or not? That’s not station to try to grow the list, but, uh, where you put these field? What are these called? Actionsprout feels that you’re asking people to fill out in orderto teo, opt in it just just phone number a check that i’m willing to accept checks and, you know, tio include yeah, you don’t even need to put a check because everyone has a standard email. Often you just add the mobile. Opt in language with it to any of your forms for an action for just to get on your email lists. You just include the whole opt in number and if they give you their your mobile, their mobile number, they’re on your list. Longfield get the compliance language at the bottom of the form here. You’re pretty much good. Okay, now and then how do we grow that list? Over time, what are some different order? Some good growth strategy was to go tell ugo. Well, i’ll definitely latto how’s, sandy she’s run these programs at a higher level than i have, but with sms requires a lot of promotion off the bat like anything else, and if you’re starting from scratch or from a smallest, you really do need to do a lot of work too. Get that going? I guess my rule of thumb is you really need to promote it everywhere. Your best bet is adding them to web forms, so we just talked about that got all these existing forms just at a field to those, and hopefully people will provide their numbers and you can start texting them. The other place that it could work, though, is really everywhere else. So didn’t you have a huge list on emails? Most likely, you may have a very large audience on facebook, you know, building graphics, that’s a text, you know, hrc two, three, six, four, four or text marriage three, six, four, four you know, send us your reaction for your story or something like that. So really, you’ve gotta promoted everywhere because, unlike, say, maybe facebook or like your website, i can go find those on the web from looking for what your organization does tto find your text message, lest i really need to do some work, so adding it to that form, having graphics on your social media, promoting those maybe putting some money into it. But then also specifically, when you having people joined the list, you want to give them a reason why you’re joining, you might ask for emails just like and people understand. Oh yeah, i’m email because they want to reach out to make with mobile it’s great, if you can specifically say, hey, texting for this specific thing. So whether that’s a free items, some kind of gimmick, or if it’s, you know, text in to tell us how you’re feeling about this marriage equality decision or something like that, so making it really specific and people seeing the value right off the bat is really important otherwise, like, well, why do i want to get text from you? What’s the value so you want to provide value immediately? I gotta take a break. Tell us i have a tell us, moughniyah ll for you, quote. Tell us has opened up a whole new stream of donations for our non-profit it has allowed business owners to support us without any additional cost to the company and, quote that’s barry dodson, founder of accelerate ministries, a whole new stream of donations that’s the long tail of passive revenue have been talking about for you. No cost to the companies you refer. Watch the video get started at tony dahna slash tony tell us now, let’s, go back to sms fund-raising do you have more dead? Definitely. So so i am. I worked at planned parenthood for three years and built their mobile program from the ground up. They already had a decent number of mobile numbers has planned parenthood, and they’ve already had mobile on some of their form, so they had already had some options, but they didn’t have unengaged list, and within the first month of me being there was june and a supreme court decision came down. That was not a positive one for the reproductive rights movement on, and ruth bader ginsburg gave a scathing recession on part of our judge we had obviously planned for whatever result will come in, and if we lost we wanted people to sign on to ruth bader ginsburg’s descent, so we put on all of our graphics all of our banners on facebook, twitter, text descent to our short code. Um, and we got a ton of new, often just from that. So really, what? What teller was saying is, is true to speaking. Sure, you include a tech stopped in in a lot of your visual graphics on instagram and snapchat and facebook and twitter also utilizing your actions that you, er you’re doing so really just integrating that in on dh, then taking advantage of events. We’ve seen a lot of activists getting out there and going to these large scale marches and rallies, and someone from your organization is speaking at one of these rallies, make sure that in their speech at some point, they say, hey, everyone, pull out your cell phone. I want you to do this right now. I want you to text the word, um, join or marked tio six, nine, eight, six, six or whatever the short code is on and say i’ll wait for you to do it xero and have them do that it really the march the march that we had the women’s march back when trump first took office, the women’s march group got so many text, often tze from that one event, they had millions of numbers that they could reactivate for different actions throughout the year. So it really you need to take advantage of those moments, be it a supreme court decision, b a be a rally or an event on dh? Just utilize it about some some of hyre yeah, maybe we’ll come back to best practices. We still have some time, but i want to spend time on on the technology. The platform? Yeah. How do we do this? How do we do that? Rachel, we haven’t heard from you in a few minutes. How do we do this back end? Well, don’t currently have it. What are we looking for? What we’re searching for? What kind of technology we need. Yeah. There there’s a bunch of different cos or vendors. You could use that have these programs so okay. You just need a budget that you can put towards it and to choose the right vendor for whatever your situation is. What do you searching for? What search? Terms that i used to try to find the vendors mobile texting, that’s it okay, usually a decent number. There’s a really easy one if you just type in upland mobile messaging and the google that’ll come upside i just my shameless like i’m sorry you didn’t really need to call it out. And honestly, most of us have used mobile condit’s up messaging for all the work that we’ve done with other organisations. So there’s a reason folks use them? Okay, yeah, yeah, but of course there are other or there are other vendors out there. They’re different price points depending on your list size. The more numbers you have, the more people you wanna text, the more it’s gonna cost more calls to congress. You want todo that’s more expensive than texting? If you want to send a multimedia message mama’s that’s more expensive than just a text with words so it’s all a question of budget and figuring out what makes sense for your non-profit alright, so that so that all right, so the technology’s pretty easy to figure out. I mean, you have to have the budget saying it’s think of it as like any email. Platform it’s very similar to an email platform. Only you’re you’re doing one hundred sixty characters instead of putting together a full email and your segmenting your list and it’s a very similar. If you’re pretty good at learning an email platform, you’re going to be it’ll be easy for you to learn a mobile platform, okay? Yeah, okay, very good then let’s go back to some more best practices we still have we got like six or seven minutes together, so some things we haven’t talked about yet, yeah can give a fun example that hrc did this past summer. We knew there was a big march coming up in d c during pride month, so we knew a lot of people wouldn’t be able to physically got there. So we decided what if we do a virtual pride march? Teo, go with the physical march and pride month and have people have to text in tow have their name added to a school, so we promoted it on email. We promoted it on facebook on twitter, uh, pretty much all over the place, and then we ask people who did it to promote it more and if people like seeing their name. You had to text it to text in to get your name out of it so people could see their name in sync krauz love to be shouted out yeah, i send live listener love non-profit radio. I do like city and state people say, you know i love it wei have heck else do listeners of the week this week, people looked looked like their name or hear it it’s a feeling. Yeah, nature’s. He was actually able to grow their list by over ten thousand people from that one action. So i mean, be creative with it. Yes. Add it to your forms. You have an event. Ask people to do it. Even our session. We started off by asking people to text as the mass tio six six two to six. Six to rate how experience they were with it. And then we had a little bit of pull way have helped life. Okay. Yeah, well, your insiders so that no. Alright, i can i can give ah, couple examples. So to go off on rachel is saying planned parenthood, we when we had our first pink out day, which was a really rallying cry for around planned parenthood when they were being attacked in twenty fifteen what we did is we had a digital wall that was everyone who is tagging their tweets and instagram posts with pink out and on mobile what we did as we asked folks to send in their pink out pictures. So we got well over a thousand photos, including men wearing pink high heels way got it was also national coffee day, so we got photos of a woman with pink lipstick on her coffee cup. We got lots of family photos of everyone wearing paying s it was really wonderful, they engage them on the on that medium on mobile when they were out and about and then another good example of fund-raising example for you is that every year since i was at planned parenthood, we did this tactic, which actually hilary clinton during her campaign stole from us. What about that? Tell other hrc so what we did is around your end, it’s holiday time, so we would send a message tio r list, and we’d say cecile richards wants tio wish you a happy highs ing and has a special greeting for you text here on dh. Well, well, you’ll hear that greeting, um and so they would immediately get a phone call with an audio recording from cecile think of it is, ah, new age robo call right with her wishing them a happy holidays and then with an ask tied into it, i’m saying we would love your support on this holiday season and then once the message ended, they got a text message with a link to get andi saw really great results with that on dh, then with follow-up text over your end on dh so there’s lots of ways that you can utilize the platform for engagement. So who wouldn’t love to hear from your ceo, right? One organization that they love doesn’t have to be planned parenthood, no organization, you’re and a lot of folks, every town has done it with celebrities that are supporters, so they’ve done recordings from julianne moore on other folks who are some of their hyre up supporters so it works and it’s something that you khun dio on mobile on dh that folks really respond tio yeah, okay, just best practices. I mean, just a quick when you know communications should be regular varied in two way, so they should be you should be really very regular vary to a communications that’s that’s the name of the game regular is and then we need to be reaching out to them fairly regularly. We don’t want to leave them strange it for two months, someone another panels, otherwise they’ll forget that i did. And if i stop if i stop texting you after two months and i asked you for some money part of like, well, no, i’m not getting any money, so you know, you got to keep that relationship going maybe two to four times a month, maybe once a week it started to change varied we talked about different kinds of things to promote advocacy fund-raising really build it into your existing programs and don’t leave some stuff out really kind of make it, you know, diverse people are neo-sage fund-raising plan, yeah, exactly don’t just don’t continue to ask people for money overtaxed, that’s going to look really bad, and they’re not going to see the value that your organization’s bringing and then two way again it’s a text message let’s make it personal and let’s make it very human and have them respond to us and ask questions and all kinds of stuff like that. Okay, we’re gonna we’re gonna leave it there. Guys, go. Okay. All right. They are rachel kottler ditigal account manager leichtman mascot neil and company taylor dankmyer global strategist for upland mobile messaging and sandy fox. Sandi with an i founder and principal consultant at smart as a fox llc. Thank you so much for being with us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being with our coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur provoc technology conference. This interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits, thanks so much. Next week. Maur smart guests from the non-profit technology conference. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio weinger cpas guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps, dot com and tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream durney dahna may slash tony tell us. Ah, creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Shows social media is by susan chavez. On our music is by scots dahna you with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great! Duitz you’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get a drink. E-giving cubine hi, i am dr tranquility of dr tranquility pr, successfully meeting the media needs of the wellness community as an expert myself. For major mainstream media, radio, tv and print magazines, i now help you book interviews for broadcast radio, podcast television and i pay tv as well as many, many magazines reach me to one to nine to zero one six zero three. Are you feeling unhappy with your body, shape or size? Ever feel out of control with food? 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Nonprofit Radio for March 2, 2018: Your Messaging Campaigns & Are You Cheating At Social?

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Michael Sabat: Your Messaging Campaigns

We’re on our phones all day. Messaging is there, too, in multiple forms. How do you exploit messaging as a marketing channel? Michael Sabat with @mssg shows you the way.

 

 

 

Amy Sample Ward: Are You Cheating At Social?

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Buying likes. Buying followers. Buying emails. Buying ads. Buying content. Are those cheating in the social networks? Do the cheaters win? Our social media contributor and the CEO of NTEN shepherds you. She’s Amy Sample Ward.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d grow a blepharoplasty aroma if i opened my eyes to see that you missed today’s show your messaging campaigns. We’re on our phones all day messaging is there, too, in multiple forms how do you exploit messaging as a marketing channel? Michael sabat with that message shows you the way are you cheating at social buy-in likes buying followers buy-in emails, buying ads buy-in content are those cheating in the social networks to the cheaters? Win our social media contributor and the ceo of inten shepherds you she’s amy sample ward tony steak too. You got us out of sixty nine, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing to radio by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers with your cps dot com and tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna may slash tony tell us i’m very glad to welcome michael sabat to the show. He has worked in the messaging space for a decade, he started working with sms campaigns in two thousand eight at mobile commons, he was there first account manager and helped hundreds of organizations launch thousands of sms campaigns. Recently, he started at message, a platform that helps digital directors and digital marketers use facebook messenger for marketing and communications outcomes. He hosts a podcast called the chat bubble about messaging he’s at message at msg and that at message dot com, you’ll find his podcast at the chat bubble dot com he’s michael sabat welcome to the show, michael. Hey, tony, thanks for having me. My pleasure. Um let’s. See, first i got i got, uh i didn’t think to admonish. And i got to mention having your company name start with the at sign it’s a little it’s. A little tough. When when i’m introducing you, you’re at message at ssg and at at message dot com. You comfortable people get that? Okay, totally tricky. But everybody asked me to repeat it. And so it really sinks into there wherever you store memories in your brain. Yeah. So at symbol msg is our logo and that’s the name of the company and the domain is a t m s. G so really tricky for domains really tricky for twitter, but it’s been working so far, okay? I mean, you know, you went into this consciously. I know that i i, um okay, i i didn’t let’s move on. Okay? Everybody knows that the only other thing humane is at mrs dot. Com that’s. Important? Yeah. Good. Yeah. The big push for our company is yeah, we’re sort of moving beyond web pages. Right? And so i’m sort of okay if the girls are a little tricky because we’re saying messaging is the new space no longer the page, but but we’ll get into that. Uh, well, let’s, get to that right now. Okay. Were you, uh, you’re a futurist. We’re moving beyond websites. I’m absolutely a futurist. Okay? Yeah. You know, i major push the major thesis behind at message. Is that the web page which is made up of access times? Why? Right space it’s a page like a piece of paper. What the web has been for the last twenty five years. But as we move everybody being on their phone, you lose that x times. Why? So we go from these incredible twenty seven inch max. Where they’re designing web pages and landscape views. And when people are viewing those, they’re viewing it on a four point nine or a five point five inch phone. And so you actually lose the essence of what is a page, and we are literally squeezing pages onto the phone, okay? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so i’m happy to start here, so but what about, you know, when pages that are now ubiquitous mobile optimized? Aren’t we getting the best? I guess you would say we get the best we can, but it’s not mobile native, is that it? Yeah. I mean, i was joking somebody yesterday and i said that the mobile optimized web page is the horseless carriage of our century. Meaning yes, you can, like squeeze it and you can’t force it by mobile optimized courses than any digital marketer out there will tell you that there mobile page that they’ve made responsive and mobile optimized one hundred times is still converting visitors at one third toe one half a cz well as the desktop version of that same exact page and that’s the high end. So it is just harder to convert somebody whether it’s an e mail acquisition a petition for a donation on a mobile web page. Interesting. Okay, i did introduce us a futurist. I’m glad. You know, i’m glad you self identify as a futurist because i didn’t i didn’t include that. Um okay, let’s. All right. We’re going to come back to this, then. Let’s, let’s, start with fresh out this little x y what do you mean, the x y space? Yeah, just like a graph. Right? When you look at a tv or a computer screen, you are looking at two dimensional space, right? Access times. Why access? And that gives you the size of the page, the number of pixels. And so when your pages, you’re building it for basically probably a math book, laptop, right, and those dimensions. And so you have these nice landscape pictures in all of this is in vogue, right? If you look at a modern website, you have the hero image and you know, you’re scrolling and it’s beautiful as you’re scrolling, you don’t do any of that stuff on the phone like the action’s on the phone is a different type of squirrel, right? It’s happening with your finger on and swiping. And messaging are the key actions on the phone and but specifically back to the space you have, you know, however, many pixels on the laptop and that’s where you’re designing pages for and then you have many, many less pixels on the phone, you just lose the page you literally, like, lose seventy percent of what you’ve built, and you have to squeeze it into the phone. And so of course, it’s not going to perform is well when you’re losing seventy percent of what you built, literally the coordinates, the extends life space and your belief is that supplanting that is the is mobile phone native messaging. Yeah, exactly. You know, i think that the the channels that have worked in the desktop era which we are leaving and going into the mobile era, right, the new device, the new mobile devices primary for personal, not necessarily forward, but for personal you’re using your phone for more things now and yes, of the channels that worked in the desktop era. Specifically, email and pages do not work as well in the mobile era and their staff out the right people behave differently when they open your email on their phone and it’s. Not better than when they open your email on their desktop. People behave differently when they arrive at your website on their phone and it’s worse than when they arrived in the best up. And so, as we move forward, not only would like more phones, but whatever comes next in virtual reality or wherever that new device news space is. Paige is an email i think are going to move into the background on messaging will be the channel that becomes more primary. A cz we move mohr mobile and whatever comes next. Okay, that is perfect. We have take our first break. That’s. A perfect sort of tease, tio. What will pick up messaging becoming? Ah, primary channel. I gotta take this break. Michael, pursuing their newest paper is demystifying the donor journey. Here is a romp through the table of contents. Where you taking your donor’s? Three common stewardship stumbling blocks consider the ideal donor experience. Immersive digital experiences making the donor experience a top priority. Next steps. You get this paper, you know, pursuant their data, rich and it’s going to be based on their research, helping you in your stewardship, it’s. Demystifying the donor journey it’s at tony dot m a slash pursuant radio. Now, let’s, go back to michael and your message in campaigns. Okay, sort of consistent let’s pick up where we were. Messaging is going to become the primary channel, is it? Is it already sort of that’s? Another interesting angle on this similar topic is it is already your primary channel. Yeah, personal communication, because we’re on our fund-raising gle day. Yeah, i mean, look, if when i need to tell my wife something or my parents or my friends, i don’t send them an e mail, and i usually don’t call although that’s also on the phone, but messaging is the way you do that, and so we see this, like, break where when you’re at work, you’re on your computer, you’re doing emails, you’re writing email, blast and all of that. When you’re doing something personal, you’re doing it via messaging and or on your phone, and so when you start to take this to howl, non-profit should be thinking about this four people let’s say, for an animal, you know, writes animal welfare non-profit sure, like when people become a supporter of this organization. It’s your work if you work at the non-profit to get people to be supporters and email makes sense. But do you want the people supporting the organization, or do people that support the organization do it because it’s personal to them and the answer is yes, right? Like people donate people get involved, people volunteer people share because they personally care about whatever issue the non-profits focused on and so it’s just a line’s better if you are now talking to something, talking to people on their personal channel when it’s an issue that’s personal to them, okay, i don’t think non-profits are are thinking this way using messaging assed communication channel as a campaign channel. For the most part, i mean, i know you do it, you do a lot of campaigns. I’m not saying it’s nowhere, but, um, we’re trying to shift some thinking here. Um, what how do you how do you characterize messaging the campaign? What are the elements of it that that make it our next primary channel? Yeah, so so kind of the nuts and bolts are that it is ubiquitous, so their arm or monthly active users off the top for messaging app. Then there are monthly active users of the email in the world. Okay, what are the top floor? I don’t know. Hold on. Name the name the top for messaging aps a man putting me on the spot facebook messenger, whatsapp we chat and probably line or kick. Okay, i guess maybe i message although i don’t think they’re coming i message in that stat that’s another okay, okay. I’m not, you know your stuff. I’ll tap your head. You know your way. Gotta shift. We got shit thinking. Okay, so more you call them monthly active users. This is how you’re measuring this is your measure. Well, these air just saying, like, look, the channel is here it’s not, you know, if you were starting your email list in two thousand, you would look at the numbers and you would say, like, you know, there’s many less people emailing than are answering their phone or that are receiving mail. But we’re already at a place where messaging is extremely ubiquitous, the people have arrived on this channel already? Yeah, so yes, it’s new but we don’t have to wait for everybody to show up. We just have to find the right use cases. Okay, now i made you diverge, but we’ll get back to it. So you were you were comparing the, uh the the monthly active users among the four top messaging apse with other communications channel. So please go ahead. Yeah, so? So messaging is kind of the biggest sort of like communication channel out there. It’s also the newest, with the other channels being things like email and phone calls and direct mail. But, you know, talking about the nuts and bolts of the channel messaging messages generally get to people very quickly. We can tell with facebook messenger at least, you know, if people open if people read their messages and the defining characteristic of messaging is that people will respond to it like, literally respond to it and that’s new, indifferent, because when an organization sends out an email, people might clear khun taken action on a web forum. But no one ever responds to an email blast like that. It just doesn’t even make sense, so with this defining characteristic of people opening the messages, people reading them quickly quickly and responding that opens messaging up to address used cases, his existing use cases in a different way for organization. I see this in my personal experience, which is why i wanted to bring this tio our listeners, you know, you’re right. My friends send me more text messages now than they did a year ago. Is it used to be maurey male, based across friends, arranging dinners, whatever on dh. Now there’s more text messages and you respond quickly to a text, then you due to an e mail, which makes me think, is there going to be another? I’m not i don’t want to kill your killers, but what is gonna be another more mohr? Um, hyre hyre responsive radio channel? Yeah, it’s gonna be another one after texting? Oh, absolutely right for sure. We’ve had mail now. Direct mail for a few thousand years. Maybe we have a phone call since harada two years. We’ve had email now for twenty five years and we’ve had messaging for, you know, about ten years that will absolutely because of something coming next, but i think that will kind of push maybe direct mail out, not messaging. Okay, okay. Um, yeah, this is all of this is all very eventually. All right. So if we wanted, if we’re in a small midsize non-profit now, let’s, bring it down to getting more practical. What? What purposes might we in engaged? Messaging teo accomplish for us? What goals? Yeah, so? So, first off, there are a few different messaging channels, the two available to non-profits right now, our sms and then facebook messenger. And they’re slightly different, but similar. Okay, sametz we got a defined term because i’ll put you in jog in jail if you don’t sms that’s. Just simple that’s, right, shorts? There was a safe. A short message, something short messaging service. Thank you. Okay, so, that’s, just your right. That’s your day to day text message. Okay, sms. Remember, be careful. Jog in jail. But it had to slap you in there. Okay, go ahead. Cool. I didn’t. I thought that got out of the jargon jail last year, but i got it. I got to check the calendar again. Eso text messaging. And then, you know, the other channel messaging channel available to non-profits or or anybody to build upon his facebook messenger. And so that is a messaging app that can go on any phone and instead of the technical terms are not relevant. But instead of it going through the carrier, it goes over the internet, okay? And so facebook now, anybody that has facebook messenger on their phone, you can essentially send them a text message, you know, phone to phone over the internet. Okay? And what? White folk, eh? So those those air to most popular tools available to non-profit what might we use this for? What? What? What kind of campaign might we create? Go ahead, get number one use case is acquisition new donors getting new donors, getting new or volunteers or maybe not volunteermatch not donors, but llewelyn, new constituents. Okay. And data. What kind of what kind of data could we hit? What kind of data can we collect through this? Any data the person responds to, similar to a web form, so you can ask the user to respond with their email address or their phone number. You know, if you’re not using sms or their address or any data you want to collect that person will respond to and the response rates over messaging are incredibly high generally like this is a big range, but generally from anywhere between forty percent and eighty percent of the people that start a conversation you asked them for their email will respond with that email address. Okay, um right, who would you be? Okay, so if this is an acquisition campaign, how would you acquire the i don’t know what you need for facebook messages are user i ds or text for sms durney phone numbers. How would you how would you acquire the people toe to send your messaging, too? Yes. So people are always going to message in first, just like people will go to a girl for first before you can ask them for their email in a web form. People are always going to message in first, and this is key distinction between sms and facebook messenger with sms. It works really well to incorporate into media. So aura on event so you stand up on stage and you say, take out your phone and for example, donate to the red cross text haiti to nine o nine, nine, nine and you connect from media from ah, like real world call to action anywhere you could say. Take out your phone type in this number and send us a message that’s how sms works. Okay, look, facebook messenger. We can come back, but with facebook messenger, you can link into the conversations and that’s the distinction. So from an ad from a facebook ad, you treyz goodcompany into a conversation instead of a landing page. Or you could link somebody from any link on the web into a conversation instead of landing base. Okay, so you can from facebook messenger. All right, all right. Um, so you get you have to you’re asking however you’re doing it on the sms side. You’re asking someone to text you first. Yeah, right. Whether it’s in an event or a printed piece or whatever you’re asking for them to take the action first. Is that right, it’s always the case for anything. A messenger you’re saying, click here. So go here to messaging or message us at this number. Okay. Okay. All right. So that was for acquisition. What? What other goals might we have for our our new messaging campaign? Yes. Number one acquisition. And collecting data and data. Yes, number two is direct engagement, so messaging lends itself to kaleb lee and easily be able to open up one on one chats with people. So someone messages in, and i can tell you my theory to this, although other vendors and other systems might have different theories. But someone messages in and we kind of automata scrip. So someone messages in and we say thanks for messaging us. Tell us your email and then tell us your zip code and tell us how much you want to donate. And as people are responding to our messages with their email and there’s a code, we’re saving it just like a web form. But with us, if someone goes off script, so we say, how much do you want to donate? And this happens all the time. How much do you want to donate? And someone responds, i don’t want to donate online where can i mail a check? Or i want to call and talk to somebody. What number did i call when someone responds off script? So we’re looking for that dollar amount and they reply with a question yes, we gonna pull that into another part of the system. And and someone can respond one on one and open a one on one chat with that person. And so the second case here is being able to engage directly in a two way conversation. A cz part of this sort of marketing funnel part of the data collection process. So, so implicit and all this is there’s a there’s a back end that is ah, script back and forth that that is, that is automated. Until some i understand, until somebody goes off script and then they get funneled a different direction. But but if there’s a back end to this that’s all automated carrying on carrying on the conversation with the the new constituent yeah. That’s what any of the tools do? Yes. You sort of need that to be ableto scale it more than just a few people live conversation. Okay. Tool automated conversation. Ok, so there are tools. They’re too old to do that. There are. Okay. Um, what are some of those tools? Can we going name a couple yet? Yes. A great. So, you know, i’m my company of that message. We oughta make these conversations over. Facebook messenger there go. My former company is mobile commons and they automate conversations over sms and they’ve been acquired and they work with a bunch of brands now meeting a bunch of venders all under the kind of software brand there there, there’s some agencies that help people do this. And so one agency would be revolution messaging maurine the strictly political space, but they helped design the campaign, and then one of the newer vendors on the scene works a little differently, but they’re called hustle or relay or ground game. All of these platforms open up peer-to-peer messaging overact, sametz and that’s less automated that’s, a hybrid between automated conversations and one on one conversations and the quick version. There are whole podcast all by themselves, but the quick version is that you need an operator with a peer-to-peer so you need someone to actually send those messages, but they’re software leading that operator through the conversation, depending on how the organisation set it up. Now why your company have you chosen to do facebook messaging and not sms? Yeah, so you know the first one first, one twenty minutes in first work first decent question, alright. I’m learning i’m learning. I’m trained above. Definitely every question i know toe like every good question. There you go. So you just like scripted. I see you like a nice ex scripted. No matter what my question was going to be, you’re going to see a good question. All right? You think this is a live person does? All right. All right. I’ll catch you up. I’ll trip you up. All right, now i’m now i’m on a mission now. I don’t do that to guest. I do it to my wife, but not my guest. Go ahead. Why has a wife facebook messenger and not sms for at message your company. So the way i see it is we are lift no, michael sabat my goal. Sam hello, there we are. Ok, you’re back. We’re ok. Yeah, you cut out so start you start your own channel. So sms had been the on ly messaging channel for the last decade. Yes, but within the last two years, it’s clear that there are going to be a whole bunch of new messaging aps opening up facebook messenger, whatsapp message. All of these are opening up so that organizations can use them, and i think we’ll look back in five years and we’ll say, like, oh, sms was the first messaging channel the same way that hotmail was the first email service, but now it’s become its own category and messaging channels will differ, but they’ll all have their basic best practices the same way that email differs. Whether you’re sending to a well or gmail, maybe, but but they all have their own, like email best practices, and so i wanted to build on and kind of the new stuff coming because it is the most exciting. All right? Um, now what about age? I have not? I’m an outlier, i presume. Based on our conversation, i have not downloaded the facebook messenger app, do we my representative of people fifty five and over? Or am i an outlier even in my age? And you don’t have to worry about age if you want to do ah messaging campaign? Yes, a messaging is actually weird. It what with text messaging? We’re kind of the point where everybody has it, right? If you have a phone? Yes, sure, really, really ubiquitous, both young and old facebook messenger does not do that well with young kids. So you know, up to the age of twenty but what’s surprising is while you’re at work, you’re emailing, right. So while you’re working age, you really are in the email. But as you retire, you stop emailing and you do mohr messaging, whether it’s with the grandkids or whoever, you’re just not going to your desktop computer on your desk every day or your laptop and so messaging it’s pretty ubiquitous, no matter what age group. But we definitely see a bump again. Maur messaging, happy eating with people in their sixties, interesting and my voice is broke like i’m fourteen, but but peter, right, yeah, what did you say? Peter brady, peter brady and i was like, greg, i kind of liked greg, but i guess he was. I was too old for his voice to crack. Well, i am two, fifty. What am i now? Fifty, fifty five, fifty six, fifty six. Okay. That’s. Very interesting about retirement. Yeah, mohr messaging less, uh, less email, right? But you’re spending less time on your desktop, but the phone is always on your belt or in your pocket. All right? We just have, like, a minute and a half left. Michael, maybe should make this a full hour, but i’m certainly not gonna squeeze out amy sample ward. Maybe we have you back and continue this, but men and a half left. What do you what do you want to leave people with? Please? Yes. So i say the last use cases, the big cases acquisition. Right. So collecting data from people over these message and channels direct engagement and then the last one of the activation. So as people are messaging in, they are subscribing similar to when someone gives you their email there subscribing and seeking then follow up on this channel where the person has already engaged and tell them news alerts. Tell them about events. Get them to take action. Stuff like that that’s the big connect sustaining pay off as and in terms of, like, building this list. Okay, um that’s it. I’m super excited to be opening for amy sample ward. I mean, this is going to be a huge episode, she’s, she’s, you know, she’s amazing gas. So congrats on that. I’m excited to be part of it. Oh, she’s, awesome! Yeah, she’s, she’s on every month. Yes. Are you going to the non-profit technology conference? Now i put you on this. Will. You are. I’ll see you there. We’re gonna have a booth. Look for us in booth three. Now, provoc radio’s going to their booth. Number three. Oh five. Great. Okay, michael sabat, orleans, right. Uh, i hope so. I’m going to new orleans. I hope you are too that’s, where the conference is, okay, don’t go to washington. Michael sabat. You’ll find him at s s g, and the company is a tms sg dot com. Michael, thank you so much. Thank you. Needs a break. That is for wagner. Cps. They go beyond the numbers, and i suggest you go beyond the numbers with them by talking to you. Eat each tomb. Who’s. Been on the show twice. Very smart guy. Very nice guy. Low pressure. But check out the website first. You know, check out the bona fide. These make sure that you’re satisfied. You know, you look the clients, etcetera. They do the work you need. I mean there’s. Cps forgot. Take everybody knows what you do. But, you know, you gotta satisfy yourself. Then pick up the phone and talk to you. Eat weinger cpas. Dot com. They go beyond the numbers. Now, time for tony’s. Take two and i need to thank you for pulling us out of sixty nine, sixty nine itunes ratings. Now, i don’t check these things very often. Any sample ward taught me? I really did learns from her that you know, that’s. A vanity metric. How many readings you have fans, etcetera. But i do look from time to time not not gonna lie your butt like every couple months. And for a long time, i may have it was every six months. Or maybe even a year. It was a long time you were at sixty nine readings, and i didn’t say anything about it. I never said please, somebody get us out of sixty nine. I did not plead. I did not make an issue of it. But then i went back a few weeks ago and i see that we got seventy five ratings. So my thanks to the people who pulled us. The six people, six listeners who pulled us out of sixty nine. I guess the one pulled us out of sixty nine, and then the others piled on. But i’m grateful to all six because that’s what i saw, i saw it go from sixty nine, seventy five. So thank you to those listeners who yanked us out of sixty nine. And, of course, there’s a video on this entire subject on you will find that at tony martignetti dot com i shouted from my gym, so i’m i’m pumped up as as a pumped up is that could be it’s, actually, probably more like a a limp linguine. Oh, you know what language? No, his right lung guerrino is a single strand of linguini. So if you’re not too hungry, you know? Just order a linguine o and you’ll get one piece of linguini or a spaghetti o or rigatoni. No, you’ll just get one, you know, little sample sample size. Um, but if you’re hungry, you know, then get the whole plate order linguini or spaghetti, etcetera. So the video was that tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two now we got to live. Listen, love and there’s a time we got let’s start abroad. Uh, osaka, japan live listen love to you, connie chua, mexico city, mexico witnessed artois, russia we can’t see the city, but we know that you’re there russia live with their love to you ottawa, canada bolivia abila iraq live listen loved all those foreign listeners on duff there’s more foreign listeners in germany gooden tug, france born i won’t know that’s bonem sabat now that wouldn’t be any good france live listen love to you tokyo is also with us in japan as well as osaka and rio de janeiro, brazil, brazil, one of wonderful that would be oh my god! Oh, opening gadot’s for brazil and bringing it domestic tampa, florida let’s see where else? Portland, oregon about that’s amy simple word, brooklyn, new york welcome, brooklyn multiple new york, new york voice cracked again new bern, north carolina welcome back, haven’t seen you for some time. New bern where’s, new brunswick where’s that was that new brunswick, north, north brunswick, new jersey was annoying me. They would never identify themselves, but they were ubiquitous. New bern, north carolina welcome back live listener love to you kayman sample ward. You know who she is, but i have to give it a proper introduction anyway. She’s, our social media contributor and ceo of intend the non-profit technology network, her most recent court that book, so to change any time everywhere about online multi-channel engagement, you’ll find her at amy, sample, ward, dot or ge and she’s at amy rs ward and antennas on ten is and tn dot or ge so many places you could find. Amy simple word welcome back. Thank you. You’re ubiquitous talk about messaging being ubiquitous, you’re ubiquitous. You are ok. Good to talk to you. Good to chat with you. How are you? Yeah, i’m doing pretty good where i think they’re really busy over here, you know, wednesday was the regular registration deadline before prices went up. So for the non-profit technology for the non-profits don’t come, you know so many books hundreds of folks registered just on wednesday, for example, the last man that busy time in the conferences oh, my gosh, it’s going to be here so soon? We’ve got shiping deadlines and print deadlines and everything else over here. I understand now that the hashtag of course is eighteen ntc no, how many people do expect toe? Eighteen, ninety? Si what do you think, it’s? Gonna look so pretty consistent with the last handful of years? Two thousand people all in one big room two thousand awesome. Yeah, i’ve decided non-profit radio was going to be there. We’re going to do right? I’m glad that you have decided that. Yes, usually we keep our business separate, but, you know, i’m melding today because i’m excited that it’s gonna work out. Okay. I am so let andrea and ellie no. Booth three. Oh, five. Um, i wanted i want two, three or five and not your name on it. Thank you. So non-profit metoo is gonna have your name on it when we get there. And the decorators it’s not there now, right? Well, i don’t expect, you know, six weeks in advance. I’m only you know, i can’t afford the furnishings for a couple days, so don’t don’t get you know, the furnishings, irv. Ok, anyway, yes, non-profit there’s going to be there? We’re going to do tons of interviews of of conference speakers and it’s going to be a wonderful day here, and you’re gonna have a hard, ah hard choice because, you know, you may have seen that we have the most breakout sessions this year than than we’ve ever had there’s over one hundred thirty sessions this year. Andi also means we have the most speakers because, as you know, one of our kind of guidelines and values is that people don’t have solo sessions because there’s way too much experience far too many organizations trying to do all of this work that only one person to have an opinion on something isn’t very representative of the community so way. Have over three hundred. Oh, i thought it was too. I thought i saw one hundred thirty sessions in two hundred speakers. No, three hundred, no, three hundred speakers. All right, well, i’ll have. To choose yes, we were selective hearing not provoc radio, but we’ll we’ll choose from one hundred thirty topics and, uh, you know, we’ll bring enough mikes we could share, too. I did one ntcdinosaur with five that we do find no four because i bribed three guest mikes and one person was standing. So two people shared a mike. It works, it works. We could do five or six. Yeah. Yeah, well, you probably don’t. You don’t have six person panels. I don’t thinkyou goes six, but no five. You could do force and five so we could do that. So yes, non-profit latto is going to be at ntc in new orleans. I hope michael sabat shows up in the right city. He wasn’t she didn’t seem too sure about where you’re going to be a friend, an extra postcards kruckel fremery knows where you’re going. Do you know michael before listening to him today? Do you know him well? I was trying to think about if we’ve been in the same place at the same time, because normally i say that i only know someone in five, like met them in person and all of that because otherwise, we know everybody because every, you know, where we’re all online, but i couldn’t remember if we actually have been in the same place at the same time, together or not. Okay, okay, well, you’ll meet with ntcdinosaur he’ll be there exactly let’s carry on to our topic cheating, cheating are cheating. So phrase gaming, i’m still against it and we can talk about that. But i’m cheating. It just sounds so bad. Well, i don’t know. We’re keeping in the social media context. I didn’t think i didn’t think gaming. I know you suggested gaming. Yeah, i went with cheating. Um in-kind left on it. Let’s admit to cheating. Alright, thank you very much. Oh, down that path. All right. So, um, let’s share your experience, your your wisdom and your opinion. Really on on buying stuff, buying everything from blogged content of youtube views. What does anymore think, amy simple would think about that? I’ve lost a toss about it on dh there. Probably not too sure you have ever mean you as you, tony, but you as everyone else is listening, ever listened into a conversation tony and i had. They’re probably not going to surprise. You what my feelings are, you know, i think we have to go back and i can already see the face that you’re making tony when i say this thing, that i probably say every single conversation that we have, which is we have to go back to our goals if your goal is to get people to go back to, you know what you were talking about the first half hour, if your goal is to get people teo, opt in, jump into a conversation and actually sign up for something or donate or add their names to your advocacy call, you know, whatever that is, buying random people probably bought is not going to get you closer, right? So if you’re just buying it for the number, hey, i would argue you have a really horrible goal weight. You should not be that list of life, their followers or whatever shouldn’t be your goal anyway on if you are just trying to fill, let me think about i often do this as a way of really kind of checking myself if i’m if i’m okay on the right things or i’m not focused on the right things and that is to turn your situation that you’re thinking about strategizing, whether this is buying facebook fans or twitter followers or instagram, polish, whatever, turn that into a in person scenario and check your same logic. So if we were in a room together, we were at the ntc right on, and our goal is to put on this awesome conference and have lots of content and have people engaging in making connections. But instead of focusing on that, we said, we want tohave three thousand people at the conference this year, right instead of always two thousand. So where does goingto go to the city of new orleans and say, we’re going to pay, you know, fifteen dollars an hour? Wait because this is our going. We’re gonna fill this commission’s, right? Because that’s our goal right way, a thousand people that are really there that are part of our community would say, who are all these people that i keep talking to you in the hallway that have no interest in what i’m doing that have nothing to do with non-profit work-life we then also create i’m going to save damage because well defined that and whatever different. Context is for the people who earnestly wanted to be part of our work, right? So focusing on that on that filling the filling, that big convention center focusing on that actually has maybe created more damage than had. We just had a smaller event on dso when i put it into a real world scenario, i think it’s so helpful because when we think about riel, world scenarios were much more likely to think about those people is people versus those people as followers or profile pictures or phone numbers, right when we’re when we’re focused on lee on the technology as this interchange in this transaction place, if we let ourselves kind of let go of the fact that these are committee members and they’re our friends and there are supporters, and i think using that real world scenario helps you remember, okay, if this is a room full of our people at our annual event, we would never do this. So why would we do it online now? The facebook the facebook facebook has changed. Facebook has changed its algorithm for for because it’s a new day yeah, right. Yes, bond, i’m hearing it. All right, companies. And non-profits or having trouble getting their content before there constituents there, their fans, the people was like their page in favor of in favor of family, family and friends stuff. Um, now i think it is i don’t think i’m being cynical saying that so that now companies and non-profits and organizations generally have toe pay for right for more outreach, brother reach no, you’re not being okay that’s that tried and true practice, right? Give people things for free so that they come to rely on them and feel they need them and then say, actually, you can’t have it for free anymore, but will you pay this amount? And people feel like they don’t have a choice, they have to pay it way don’t non-profits largely, any organization business on facebook has had lots of thing for free, you know? They got to have content that people could see in their new speed, and they could connect with folks and send messages and, you know, previously have much more, um, kind of dynamic options around events and messages and groups and all the rest and slowly all of that has been taken away, and i think at this point organisations really feel like, well, we have been used to getting to message. You’re having are. Our message is rather show up in the news feet of of our fans. So i guess now we do have to promote our posts, or even further than that, have facebook ads. And i think less about using facebook, then as a place where you are like you would with a promoted post, just trying to get your content scene and engaged with. And now that you’re using it, like big companies, to drive traffic to your website or into a facebook messenger, you know, a conversation or whatever it might be. Big, heavy sigh uh, listen, i mean, it’s kind of sad and frustrating his leg’s definitely, i think it’s a real challenge for organizations, teo feel like they are confident enough with there could management of the tool before you even think about how much time it takes. I mean, if you were to go to affirm that all that they do as they’re agency is, like a manage facebook ads and social media management for for clients, a you pay them a ton of money and they have a lot of expertise they’ve been doing this is all that they live and breathe, and it still takes them hours and hours, right? Like the idea that a small non-profit who already struggled to have the time to even log in to facebook one today, you know, and like, engage or like or reply to comments that now they’re they’re having to log in and then say, okay, well, hattaway, create an ad. How is that different than promoting this post? Because both of them are taking my credit card number? Like i said it’s, just so so disappointing that feels like it, it has established itself as this keep mathos massively, a hugely popular platform for people as individuals communicating with each other, and that should be a place where non-profits go to talk to people, right? I’m yet there are just so many, so many burdens or barriers to doing that. I know we got to take a break, stay with us, tell us credit card and payment processing. You know them. This is where you get the long tail of passive revenue because they are credit card processors. So you go to tony dot mm slash tony. Tell us you watch the video. It will explain the process of business is moving their credit card processing to tell us, and you will get fifty percent of everything tell us earns on all those transactions long revenue stream. Tony dahna i’m a slash tony. Tell us. Okay, any sample word, let’s? Keep talking about. Well, we brought in a little beyond cheating, but i, uh okay. So yes, facebook drew us in and drew non-profits in wave with e-giving they had e-giving for god’s sake on now, there. Now, now you gotta pay to get all this. All right, but but buying facebook likes is not the answer. No, it’s not going to be the answer, because buying the likes whether you’re buying likes on your content or buy-in likes just unto your page, write a cz followers it’s still going to set you up for a really bad roo i calculation from then on, right? Like if you’re now carrying one hundred extra fans that have no real intention in engaging with you are becoming part of your mission or donating to you every time you put a post out there, you’re getting even a smaller percentage, right? Because now you just artificially inflated all those numbers. Yeah, yeah, okay, good, but we’ve taken that off the table that that is not the way you go that way. Um, we’ll spend your few dollars on buy-in followers and fans used that money, even though, and this is what this i’ll i’ll make my case for it now, tony, the reason that i had said this was a conversation about gaming, social media, not cheating, is that just what we’re saying about facebook that you do have to play that game a bit on dh like i’m saying, don’t use your money on buying more, more followers instead. Used that money to say, you know, once a week we’re going to spend two dollars or five dollars, and we’re goingto busta post and get it more visibility, and that way it is content that you already have it’s maybe a post you already put up like if it was intend this week, maybe it’s a post specific toe reminder wednesday’s the registration deadline before the rate increases so it’s something that’s important is already something that you’re going to post on the page and then just put a couple of those dollars behind, boosting that more instead of putting your money somewhere else. What about the thinking that if we have a lot of let’s, shift over to twitter? If we have a lot of twitter followers, then people will think we’re popular and more people will join us organically. So if we buy ten thousand or twenty thousand twitter followers, which you’re right from a little i know about this, they’re probably fake. They’re either stolen and fake identity accounts or their bots, but if we have a big number than people will say, whoa, they have a big number about and then organically it’ll it’ll grow. Is that that flawed logic? And if so, why? I really think that it is flawed logic. So two, two versions, one in person, you know, if it was me and i had a million followers on twitter, for example, you’re going toe, you’re going to question that number, and if you first you’re going to say, okay, is that? Do i follow five people? You know, like it’s? Because it is obvious that this person is just, you know, buying all these followers because they don’t follow anyone? They’re not actually engaging with people. You’d also investigated by looking at the content just because i have a lot of followers, if i post, you know, once a month with, like a retweet of something what’s the point of following me anyway, right? There is no there’s, no content there there’s no value there. So even if i didn’t have a million followers and i was regularly engaging with people and i followed a ton of people and, you know, very similar number followed back that’s showing actually ah lot stronger truck between whoever that individual is and the people that they engage with them just see a billboard type. Profile right? Like you’re just an ad, right? Like lots of people are just there, but if it’s an organization similar, if you if you are truly an organization that should have a million followers, then you are an organization who should be putting out great content every day that you have profile that has, you know, your logo and information about whatever campaign you’re running or what your mission is has clear links over to your website that has similar branding and and tone and feel, you know, that there’s clearly a strong presence there if instead you’re an organization that shows that you have a million followers you again, you yourself follow five and your profile is very basic. You do not have strong called action and your messages you’re not regularly, you know, posting there, it doesn’t matter how many followers you have no one’s going to, really you don’t want to buy into that. That organization. In my intro, i linked, i grouped together buying views fans likes and also buying content. What about? You know, if we’re if we’re a small organization, we don’t have the wherewithal toe keep our keep facebook fresh or ur own even our own sight. Our own blogged fresh. What do you think about buying content? I guess occasionally. Or no, if you don’t like it, so i know i don’t like it, okay, but i want it cut the mic, right cover my kapin mike doesn’t like it, you know, if i can. Okay, so i think that there is, uh, certainly ah, path a reality in which money is exchanged for content on your website or your probably more. So, you know, on your block, like you’re saying versus on social, but in that situation is not that you are just buying content, but that instead you have say, uh, your education organization you focused on, kate told education, and you recruit twelve or twenty four say teachers in your service area to write something for you and that way you have to post a month. I’m just making this up, obviously, and you want to give them, you know, one hundred fifty dollars, check as a thank you for all of the time and sharing their expertise, and now they have one hundred fifty dollars to use in their classroom or whatever they want to do. So i think that kind of scenario where you are essentially providing honorariums for your community members, contributing to your content definitely makes them, but i wouldn’t ever consider that buying condoms. Mom, is that clear? What i’m saying there? Yeah, yeah, you’re you’re not you’re not out first of all, it’s it’s relevant because it’s coming from a community member and yeah, zim one you know, and they’re contributing content. So, you know, it’s it’s an honorarium? Yeah, exactly, and i think the other opportunity and again, i don’t think that money would necessarily be exchanged in this scenario, but four organizations, i don’t think that you should feel bad if you feel like, oh my gosh, we we don’t have time or we don’t we don’t feel like we have a lot to say to create all that content that is a huge place where i think partnerships are really important. I don’t know how much i’ve talked about it on the show over the years, but if anyone listening has been in any of my workshops around content planning, i always advocate that in your content plan, you include notes about if any of your funders have ah, blawg or social media profiles, if any of your coalition partners or project partners, if any of those people have outlets, and if they do, you should follow those because oftentimes they mean, you only had five minutes today while you were eating lunch while you were also, you know, listening to this radio show toe log in tow twitter and so long as you had all those folks there, maybe what you do today is just read retweet, you know, amplifies some of that content you don’t need to come up with it on your own, but, you know, it’s mission aligned, you know, that it’s relevant because they’re part of your kind of network of work. Andi, i think that’s a really important thing to keep in mind so that you don’t feel the pressure that you always have to write new articles every day. It may mean, hey, the five other organizations we work with are posting this. We’re going to repost it just like two other organizations are right in leverage, kind of how best would think about it. Is that network effect right? You have? Yes, you that’s beth cancer she’s dropping names. That’s, she’s referring to beth cantor? Yes, you have said that on the show and yeah, you’re you’re curating, you’re curating. Others content and and then? And then i probably learned this from you. Do you know they appreciate that, and they’re likely to share your content makes it more likely that their shells there show they’ll share your content and, you know, it’s a which also metoo we just have a minute left really manically last words or fans or whoever will come to you because maybe they already follow that partner or that thunder, and because you created a good relationship and sharing content between the two of you, you’re helping expose your content to all of their fans. Indeed, indeed. I know that from the non-profit media experience followers come when we share. We share good content from other people. Um, we gotta leave it there. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you. In anywhere, stu. In april, we’re gonna get you for an interview. She’s amos sample ward and you’ll find her at amy rs ward and amy sample ward dot or ge next week risk-alternatives and your disaster recovery plan. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by regular cpas, guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps, dot com and by telus, credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Family voices the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez on this music is by scots dahna with me next week for non-profit radio, big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and green. Yeah. Snusz you’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving e-giving cubine are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, i’m nor ing. Sometimes the potentially ater tune in every tuesday nine to ten eastern time, and listen for new ideas on my show. 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Nonprofit Radio for January 26, 2018: Start Your Planned Giving In 2018 & Amy’s 2018 Plan

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Tony Martignetti: Start Your Planned Giving In 2018

It’s me. I know a little about Planned Giving fundraising. I’ll give you tips, tricks and strategies to kickoff your wills campaign this year.

 

 

 

Amy Sample Ward: Amy’s 2018 Plan

Amy Sample Ward

Amy Sample Ward is our social media contributor and CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network, NTEN. She’s got insightful ideas to make your online life more balanced.

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with lishman iesus, if you infected me with the idea that you missed today’s show, start your plans e-giving in twenty eighteen it’s me, i know a little about planned e-giving fund-raising i’ll give you tips, tricks and strategies to kick off your will’s campaign this year and amy’s twenty eighteen plan and you stamp award is our social media contributor and ceo of antenna non-profit technology network. She’s got insightful ideas to make your online life more balanced. I’m tony steak too. You’re twenty eighteen plans all this month, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant weinger sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps, dot com and tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna may slash tony tell us here i am with start your planned e-giving in twenty eighteen it’s my pleasure to welcome twenty martignetti ah, not a great pleasure. Sometimes i say great player. Just a pleasure. I’ve been doing planned e-giving since nineteen, ninety seven. So that’s. Twenty years. I was twenty one years. Yes, twenty one years. Now. I mean, my twenty first year, um, and i’ve been consulting in it for fifteen years. Yes, yeah, it’s, starting, well, whatever fifteen years is, yes. Start in two thousand three exactly as a consultant. Two thousand three nineteen ninety seven got started so i know a thing or two about planned e-giving and an opportunity arose because guest this month at a family emergency and couldn’t pre record for me. So i’m pretty recording from myself, and we’re doing start your plan giving in twenty eighteen let’s begin with what is planned giving i have a really simple definition, and it is a method of fund-raising that is long term and typically means cash to your non-profit at the death of the donor so long term you need thio recognize that this is not going to pay next years ah, salary budget or for your five or even ten year capital plan. We’re going to start promoting plan giving roughly with people who are about fifty five or, say, sixty and over fifty five to sixty and if someone that age puts you in there will, which is what we’re gonna talk about the example that’s, the marketing we’re going to talking about wills um, you know, they could be living another twenty five or thirty years, so you have to have that long term. View of fund-raising and if you’re going to embark on this, your board needs to have that long term view of fund-raising you don’t want your board in six months asking when we kicked off this plan giving program, encouraging bequests, where’s the revenue that that would be that would be a big, big problem. You haven’t kicked it off, right? Your board needs to know that these air gifts that are coming twenty, twenty five, thirty years in the future, right? Of course, depending on the ages of the people that actually make the gif ts but again, we’re going to start our marketing around fifty five or sixty so long term view, who are the best prospects for planned gif ts as i said by age, there are about fifty five to sixty and over now, of course, if a seventy five or eighty year old includes you in there, will, then you know, they may only be living for five or ten or fifteen years. So again, it depends what the ages of the people are, who actually make the gift best prospects. They love your work, they are already committed donors to your organization and by committed were judging that we’re judging their commitment. I need to take a drink. By their giving history, their history of consistency if they’ve been giving to you, you know, twelve of the past fifteen years or eighteen of the past twenty years, or maybe even more than more, you know, twenty five times in twenty years, you’re looking for that long term consistency in giving. And when you’re looking at that, you want to ignore the gift size i literally mean, if all those gifts those eighteen gifts in twenty years were ten dollars a month, that person is a very good plan e-giving prospect they’re probably of the right age because they’ve been giving to you for so many years, and they always plan for you. They always think about your organization, and i would bet you that if they’re giving it that ten dollar level, they wish they could give more, but they can’t during their lifetime, their ultimate gift to you. We’ll be in there a state plan, and again, we’re talking about the quests, those those gif ts in someone’s will a charitable bequest in the will that is going to be the ultimate gift for someone who was a low level donor is ignore the gift size when you’re looking at the consistency through the years through the decades, small gif ts very consistent donor-centric planned gift prospect this is not only for your major donors by any stretch, not at all. All right, so, you know, people have asked me when i’m speaking, you know, do you focus on women because women outlive men? No, i don’t focus on women it’s true that women on average do outlive men, and if they’re married than odds are that thie their husband’s estate or book of it has been left to them. So you could say that they may be have, um, on outsized role in planned giving because they’ve been left assets from there husbands. But, you know, i don’t focus marketing on females in their seventies, eighties or even fifty five or sixty um, you just you do, however, want to be sensitive to the role of women, you know what i have seen? And this is not just from questions, but i’ve seen it myself buy-in an events, clients or non clients, even when a couple is together and the husband is the one who’s being talked to, and the wife is largely being ignored, that’s that’s a that’s a big mistake. You want couples involved you want? You want me? Even if it might even be the whole family in some cases, but certainly you want couples involved. So as you’re thinking about who the best potential donors are in the long term on dh for your for your plans, giving program you want to be respecting women while their husbands are still alive. You know kids, you can’t marginalize the woman. And then when she becomes a widow all of a sudden year, you’re embracing her and you want her toe. You want her to be as enthusiastic about your your mission that as as her husband was that’s that’s probably not going to succeed. So just i mean, what am i saying? Just respect women the way you do men, you know, treat the couple as joint donors doesn’t matter what who’s who has the greater interest treat them both because you never know what’s gonna happen longer term. All right, so that’s that’s what? Who the best prospects are on now we’re going to pick it up with got a bunch of marketing tips and, ah, little a little bit about your recognition society stay with me, it’s. Time for a break pursuant, data driven fund-raising field guide it’s their newest resource on the listener landing page at tony daddy may slash pursuant capital p there’s no! Ah, yeah there’s so much data around us. It’s, easy to feel data overload. Just the data that you already have can be overwhelming so and then trying to figure out what to do with it and how to make it actionable. The field guide purpose is to make data less daunting for you. They’re less daunting s so what’s in it for five high level steps you can take to translate your business objectives, real world case studies and a worksheet with thought starters it’s at tony dahna slash pursuing capital p now back to me and start your plan giving in twenty eighteen um, so just teo want duyvil deeper just into a charitable bequests just so we’re clear that that is not all there is around playing e-giving that’s just where we’re started. There’s lots of different types of plant gif ts this could be about the gift of life insurance gif ts from ira’s from charitable trusts and there’s lots of varieties of charitable trust, charitable gift annuities. Those are those are the most popular, all kinds of beneficiary designations in financial assets, but the one planned gift that we’re going to be focusing on is that charitable bequest encouraging gift to your organisation in people’s wills so that alongside their husband, wife, children and grandchildren, there is a bequest paragraph, a gift to your non-profit and think about what we’re asking someone to do. I mean, think about how much they love your work to put you alongside husband, wife, children, grandchildren, i mean, they really love your work that is quite a respected place to be, and that has implications for you’re treatment of them after they’ve told you that you’re in there. Will, you know, in other words, your stewardship of them, and i’m going to talk a little later about your recognition society. So think about what you’re asking people to do put you in that very special place. Why am i focusing on charitable bequests? A bunch of reasons? Everybody knows what a will is, everybody should have one it’s very easy to do. People don’t have to tell you that they’ve included you. There are a lot of plant gifts where they would have to tell you, because you need to be involved in the documentation of it. This is an example where they don’t have to tell you they could include you in their will and not inform you. And there are lots of people who will not tell you that they’ve included you, even though you’ll be asking you constantly want to be asking in in your marketing, please tell us if you’ve included us in your will, but ah lot of people won’t. The national statistic is that there’s between seven and eight states that you’re in for every one that you know about on why don’t people reveal why? Why, when people share that information, especially when you’re mean, when you’re a part of it, i want they tell you there’s a lot of reasons for that they don’t want to be asked to do more. They’re, um they don’t want to be treated any special, especially any differently. They want to know that they can change their mind. And even though legally we can change our minds about our wills any time we want to there’s an old woody allen clip our line, i think it’s, i’m not sure it’s in zelig, i’m not sure where it is, but he’s upset at some family member and he yells up to his wife, bring me my will and an eraser. You can change your will anytime it doesn’t matter whether you told the organizations or the people who are in it that that they’re in it, but people feel an obligation not to change their mind once they’ve told you that they that they have included you in their will, they just they feel that moral obligation and the reason they won’t inform you that they’ve done this is because they don’t want to be bound morally. They want tohave that flexibility again, even though legally we always we always have it. We’re talking about their their moral obligation, so lots of reasons why people won’t tell you, um and that was part of i was listing off. You know why we’re dealing with charitable bequests? Because people don’t have to tell you another reason we’re focusing on wills and bequests. There’s no lifetime cost noah’s the hypothetical i gave you before the a person who’s been giving ten dollars, a year for many, many years. This is their ultimate gift. They. They wish they could have done more for you during their lifetime. But they need a gift that doesn’t have a lifetime cost. And so the charitable request is one of those examples. So that’s a bunch of reasons why we’re focusing on wills and bequests. I guess the biggest reason is that it is so easy for people to understand, everybody knows what a will is, and they can include you in theirs. All right. So moving to some marketing tips, how to encourage people to include you in their will and remember, we talked about best prospects. We need to go back and listen, those of the people you’re targeting again, you know, fifty five or sixty and over, um, well, you don’t need to go back because i’m reiterating it and very consistent donors. You’re not gonna be acquiring new donors through your plan giving marketing. This is not an acquisition strategy. All right, this is your charitable bequest strategy will’s campaign. If you want to think of it as a campaign, that could be a very good idea. Think of this as a will’s campaign, some ways of marketing. Starting with events, you’re producing a program, you could put a couple of sentences in that programme along the lines of we’ve kicked off a campaign to encourage you to remember our organization in your will, it’s very simple to do and secures our work long into the future. Ah, your attorney needs our legal name, address and tax i d number. Drop those in and that’s it and then maybe mom’s, right? Maybe say, you know, for more information, contact whoever that wherever that contact person is director, development, et cetera. Um, a few words about legal name, address and tax id these air fundamental to lots of planned gif ts certainly that applies in the case of charitable bequests. You want to make your legal name, that the name under which you’re incorporated, you’re you’re incorporated a nonprofit corporation. What that formal legal name is? I want to make that public also your address and your federal tax i d number. I hope you recognize that tax i d number that e r e i n employer identification number the irs has given you. I hope you realize that that is not to be kept private. Like your social security number. It’s already public it’s on all your form nine nineties. Excuse me, and those are gosh, excuse me. And those are very public. You may have them on your own website. Lots of attorney general’s attorneys general offices is have them attorney general’s office is attorneys general attorneys general, lots of attorneys, general offices have them guide star has them so you know that that buy-in which is important to teo, including request gif ts should be should be public, you know, make that part of your part of your marketing along with your legal name and your address. So sticking with events, maybe you could even drop a couple of words into the the written remarks, the remarks that are going to be made for that event. Now, i understand some events. It may not be appropriate, but some it can be appropriate. So if it is, you know, besides doing what you’ve done in the written program have someone have the speaker announced that you know, we’ve we’ve kicked off this will’s campaign. We’re encouraging gifts by will it’s. Really simple to do for more information, please see no, whoever standing in the corner, it doesn’t require more than just like three or four sentences in in a speaker’s remarks. Get out there. I mean you want to have you you know you’re gonna think about this is a campaign, you’ve got to be promoting your campaign? Ah, your annual report another place that you can encourage donors and also recognize those who have already made planned gift that i’ve already put you in there will that’s a perfect place for recognition. Now i know a lot of organizations i’ve heard you are getting away from printed annual reports. So you know this other marketing ideas i’ve got if if you’re not producing a written annual report, but if you’re doing it on, i mean doesn’t matter. You’re doing an online version of your annual report include the names there say what it is. You know, these people have included us in their long term plans by by naming us in there will, if you’d like to. If you’d like to join them, please contact whoever your attorney will need our again legal name, address and tax id, and here they are and then list those names as a zoo form of recognition people who have already i already made that made the plunge and and put you in their will, i would say when you’re gonna be listing names, make sure that you have their permission to use their names. That’s something you want to ask after someone has informed you that they’ve included you in their will ask permission to use their name on, and if they say no, then list them as anonymous. All right? You mean you want to show that there are as many gifts as there are in your will’s campaign in your new plant giving program? So list the people as anonymous if they prefer not to be named my experience. Very few people don’t want their names listed, but you certainly should be asking another marketing tip direct mail. You’re already producing your mail piece. You can put a buckslip in that’s ah, it’s a something that i mean, the way i do them for clients is they’re printed three on a sheet because she gets cut in thirds and then there’s little buckslip third of us slipped gets gets dropped in. It doesn’t change the weight of your piece, so you’re not spending any more on postage, something along the lines of did you know you can include, you know, our organization, your name in your will. It’s so easy to do lots of people have all you need is our legal name, address and tax id. Here they are. Please share this information with your attorney and for more information, contact whoever it is that it’s that easy. All right, you already producing the mail, drop a drop of slip in and encourage, encourage gives by will along lines of direct mail when you print your next batch of of envelopes were talking about the the not reply envelopes, but the although we could do it there, too. But i’m thinking of the number ten the carrier enveloped the outer envelope that as your your name and logo on the on the outside on the flap, put a little check box for i’d like information on including and then your organization name in my will. We’ll check off for people everybody’s going to see it, they got they got to seal the envelope, they’re going to see that you’re already printing the envelopes include this on the on the flap. All right, easy, easy. I’d like more information on including the organization in in my will. No, they want you to think about email signatures, email. Signatures and business cards. Can everybody in the organization had this to there to their email signature? You could include us in your will ask me how and then you may get some enquiries. Same thing on business cards next time you’re printing business cards or as as new employees come or a sze yu have to reprint for your current employees. Ah, statement about including the organization in your will you don’t ask me out, you know, a ll these simple tips that’s because i’m the evangelist for planned giving him and i’m trying to get the word out as much as possible trying to promote your will’s campaign, your your plan giving program as much as possible. So, you know, you take or leave these ideas i’ve had people come up to me after i’ve spoken, and i’ve suggested the business card and they’ll show me their car. It’s got it, he’s got it on there. Um, they ran out. I mean, they left the seminar. They ran teo insta print or staples. They got the rapid. They obviously paid the cost for the for the urgent a rush job. And then he came back and there it was so very gratifying. Let me. Okay, well, let’s, keep going with the marketing. And then i want to assure you about about thes bequests and how you can have a very fulfilling plan giving program just on the quest. Um, promotion, when you are in meetings, okay, you in one on one meetings, you’ve done your research. You know that the person who’s a very consistent, loyal donor and you either know or you’re judging that they’re roughly fifty five sixty and you want to open the subject. Ah, good. Oh, now this is not the walk in the door line, of course, but as the conversation is continuing no. Ah, we’ve kicked off a campaign to encourage gifts by will. We’re starting to get some interest. If this is true, you can even say, you know, people of we’ve got people, including us in their will, and you have been such a consistent and loyal donors for so many years. Is that something that you would consider and no answers? We’ll run the gamut from i’ve thought about it already. Oh, i’ve already done it, tio no, you know, i don’t i don’t really think of you in that long term way and ah, i was done ask, well, why is that you’ve been a long term donor? How come you don’t? You don’t see something longer term with us? Okay, assuming that the conversation is going to continue, all right, and there is some interest, then you want to be very sensitive about about this topic, because it is so personal. Again, you know, they’re putting you next to their loved one ones, so in their will. So you do want to be very thoughtful and sensitive and listening. And they may even reveal some things that are personal, because this is involving, you know, their their long term plan. Their this is their will. And that involves family members, loved ones, maybe even dear friends. So you might hear some things that are more personal than you’re accustomed to. You know, just take that in. And, ah, keep the conversation guided toward how a gift in someone’s will. This long term gift is goingto further your work. What’s it going to mean for your work to continue, you know, decades from now. And i would also tell you that people who are of this age, and they are long term, consistent donors to you, they’re ready to have a conversation like this, even if, even if they’re answer is negative, they’re not going to be put off by the by the suggestion. Okay, it’s, just as i’ve been doing this twenty one years and it’s never happened where someone was offended by the conversation, because you’re asking the right people, you bring it up with the right, great potential donors. Um all right, that’s the same marketing tips i have, i want to assure you that even though there are so many different types of plant gifts that i was listening earlier, you could have a very, very respectable planned gift program just with wills, you can start and stop there. You you certainly could go further, but you don’t need to. I’ve worked with small organizations where all they did was encourage gif ts by will that was the sum and substance of there planned gift program um, and small organizations, you know, when there’s a dozen, fifteen, twenty people in the er in the recognition society which is going to get through very shortly. Um that’s very gratifying, you know? And then you just keep up the you keep up the marketing, so do not feel that just because there’s such a broad array of planned gift that you need to be in every one of them you don’t, you could have a very respectable program that is on ly around wills your recognition society goingto wrap up with this i said earlier how important stewardship is so you certainly do want to have a recognition society i would encourage you to call it something other than the heritage circle. The legacy fund, the legacy circle, um, those air ubiquitous, name it something that his iconic to your organization, it might be the year of your founding. It might be the name of your founder. Ah, the maybe the hong zhang society, um, the you know, wherever, in-kind if there was not a founder, someone whose iconic to your organization, i have a school where it’s the it’s, the bell tower society, because that’s, an iconic fixture on their on their on their campus so name it something that’s iconic to your organization. Please stay away from the legacy circle. Also, you do not need to spend a lot of money on thanking your donors. You’re who have included you in their wills you just need to be thoughtful, genuine. So what are some things you can do if you’re hosting an event? Set aside, tomorrow’s vp some sorry, some v i p seating for them it’s like the cost of masking tape or or string tio label a section of seats you’ve already bought and paid for vips and then invite your plan. Give donors to sit there, include them in your insider publications, whatever those might be newsletters, whatever emails, insider blast um, these are people who have made a gift and they and even though you haven’t recognised in his cash yet, it is a long term commitment to your organization, and they’ve put you alongside their loved ones. So in your recognition society, do what you can to make them feel special, right? And that is start your plan giving in twenty eighteen i’m always open to questions, of course. Good luck. Getting playing, giving off the ground this year when you just take a break, wittner sepa is another testimonial quote, this is my first year and we are a growing non-profit argast gps was completely attentive and gave the impression as if they were right next door when handling our review engagement. Even though we’re in a different state, they made me feel like we’re the only client they had, and they were able to walk me through starting up our accounts to finishing our yearly statements. Nothing was too small a task for them to handle, and they were always available for questions and concerns. The customer service was exceptional, which is a rarity these days and greatly appreciated. I received great advice and guidance for better business practices from a professional, all while feeling supported and generally cared for in the process. Magnus deepa is really stood out as a partner, and i could not be happier with the results end quote, supported and generally cared for. Okay, that’s outstanding. Um, it sounds like they’re like wellness coaches or holistic practitioners or emergency room nurses or first responders. Bridal registry liaisons card detailers, veterinarians, their sherpas on mount interest mount interest, mount everest. There, lifeguards there park rangers, their servers at a five star restaurant. No, it’s just weinger cps genuinely cared for and supported. Where you going to find that they’re more than sepa is. They go beyond the numbers. They’re people for god’s sake, their trusted advisers to their clients. Oh, and this this testimony was from a small cancer research non-profit on the east coast. You’re supposed to change arctic firms every three years. I hope you’ve heard that. So you get the first perspective on your management, your financials? Ah, etcetera. Um, you want the advice of a firm? I think that goes broad and is gonna help you. You know, beyond the numbers beyond the balance sheet. Like huge tomb he’s. Been on the show twice. February tenth twenty seventeen, august seventh twenty fifteen. You can work with him. Argast appears dot com go there now, time for tony. Take two. We covered your twenty eighteen all this month. I hope it was great value for you. Despite the lousy sound quality and a bunch of the segments again, i’m sorry about that. Today is the last of this. This run for the month of january to believe anything out. Is there something that you would like us to cover for you? Let me know at twenty martignetti or you can use tony at twenty martignetti dotcom. Get me there. Here’s amy sample ward with her twenty eighteen plan it’s. My pleasure to welcome back. Amy sample ward, you know, social media contributor and ceo of ends and the non-profit technology network. The most recent co author. A book is social change anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement that amy sample wards dot or ge and at amy are lorts welcome back-up awards staying for having me back. Happy twenty eight teams. Absolutely. Thank you. Yes. I’m glad to have you back if you want. Good to have you on this one. Yeah, well, it’s a good a good open for our year together. Yeah, wonderful. And that’s what we’re talking about years together on twenty eighteen. Um, your plans. Your plans for twenty eighteen. Yeah. So let’s. See what you got? What you got for, uh, listeners for the year? Well, just hearing the way that you were introducing me. Maybe he’ll like the first thing that i have put on my list to know my life let me divulge my deepest regulations for the year. Tony martignetti on the radio lift the field very aligned with ten of my role on on on top of radio and then it’s about social media and my first kind of my first, you know, i’m not really revolution person, i don’t know if we need to unpack that here, but i’m not really a resolution person way don’t do that. I’m more of like a like i’m more of a, uh, reminders and commitment you almost every day myself, something happened, and i think, okay, i’m gonna make a note that, like, i want to be committed to a path where that doesn’t happen, or i don’t want to do that thing again or, you know, whatever those little reminders are, they come up, uh, you know, all the time that that’s more how my personality but one thing that has been on the top of my personal reminder list the last a few weeks and that felt very strong when you asked for me to think about these things is this idea of justice feeling come serve all staying connected where i want to and making that decision they know how i feel in that in those connections and in that channel vs, you know, being the ceo event, and i’m feeling like i need to be on every single channel and talking to people in our community every where they are and letting go of that and just saying, you know what? I really like to use channel for this reason and connect with only these people there. I’m nothing to feel bad about that i’m going connect with those people in that face and feel good. So you think it’s more where you feel comfortable? Yeah, okay, because we’ve talked about the past meeting people where they are here well and that horizon organizations and i’m chained for me as a person, you know, like my my personal accounts online, you know versus and pen of an organization are professional sort of channel. I give you an example like, i, you know, there’s all there’s, always drama or opinions or fear about what facebook is doing to this state of the internet, and sometimes i care about those things sometimes i think they’re all hyperbole, but what i have found is that over the last year or so, i really don’t even look at anything in it. This small moms group that i’m a part of with other women from my wellness center and weigh all log in who are private group and we talk, you know, every day while we’re pumping, people were commenting and talking teo other every night after, you know, babies sort of bad everybody kind of checks when we’re together and it’s it feels like a really close community, and everybody uses that space that kind of have an outlet, people bet you understand what you’re going through. I could really honestly care less about the rest of baseball because all it is people sharing new links that make you any tests and stress. And, you know, all of this back and forth, like i want to go to my mama’s group and talk to my friends, and i don’t want to feel bad that i’m not, you know, personally engaging with the rest of the world of books, any temple word, that’s, a big deal because you are you are a co author of books about being multi-channel and engaged everywhere napor so that’s you know, first of all i have i want everyone to know that non-profit radio is not only family friendly, it is family embracing, you know, the the the subject of lactation, and something is very welcome on this shelf. Yes, just in case yours in question. But now that’s uh that’s quite a revelation. Thank you. Thank you for sharing really well, i feel like he’s been in a professional way. The places where i’ve been using twitter, facebook, you’re somebody’s much more longer standing platform has really migrated into groups, whether that’s groups in the way that it has no actual group where you’re just these people have joined this group, whether it’s private or public group or place metoo tools like twitter, where public but a new kind of created roots in your own feet are really relied on hash tag on ly follow the ship out about a certain topics and i mean you you will not be surprised that my reflection and kind of understanding about this it is what it is, but i think it’s all because we use it to your community as ad has gotten to be, you know, ten, fifteen years old and every single person is on them, so you can’t just listen to every single right now you have to go back to creating some smaller communities within that channel weather that wrote groups or hashtags or whatever. And i think it’s important for people to recognize that you don’t need to read every single twist it goes, you know, through your street because that’s not necessarily why you are even using twitter right to read every thought of every person in dinner, mess with people and create some communities. All right, so your youth has evolved teoh right into these communities within the over the larger community have all your followers are all your friends? Exactly? And i mean, it sounds like a more sophisticated and more personal use of the platform. Well, i think you know what you think about it is like it’s krueger and group. And so naturally now it’s gonna split apart so that all of those pieces in grover and grow and then they split apart, right, like that’s natural growth cycles for many different applications. So i think for me at least it’s at that place. Now where it’s grown too big for it to be meaningful. So now i have to break it into parts where they’re meeting again in breaks. Evolution? Exactly. All right, i should have said earlier there’s there’s a bit of a delay between amy talking that’s because we’re working on a sort of strangely relieved system would buy phones. And sam is according to having trouble with the regular phone line calling the studio that’s actually kind of interesting. I mean, it i’m forgetting because there’s no mike in front of me now i’m just talking to you on my phone. Come on, yeah, it’s like a more personal conversation, even though i know i know intellectually it’s going to be recorded and they’re in the over twelve thousand people listening, but it doesn’t feel like it right now. You know what you’re like? What is the scene? Because in my mind, i’m picturing you on the phone and not picturing you, you know, i’ve seen i’ve seen the studio and been able to record in the city, so i know the setup and i normally khun pictured you sitting in the microphone looking at sam’s at, you know, african, hold on dh it always feels like oh, i’m calling in and i’m being, you know, put into the system, and today it feels like you and i are just having a conversation. It’s very interesting how much of an impact that makes exactly i know, even though we know for sure, yeah, even though i know sam is still sitting next to you. Yeah, i mean, i’m in a different chair on this side. I know it is interesting that really it’s what i think about it, it feels more personal, and i’m very comfortable with mike in front of me, but this feels a lot more personal, even though intellectually i know it’s, not just a phone call between two of us. Uh, all right, well, thank you again for for sharing world was opening up that way that the evolution you also want to encourage us to connect people. Yes, well, i mean, i barely everyone needs to be doing that. But i know that from me. I take a lot of of happiness from and really enjoy making connections for people. Because in my job i have super privileged to meet just a ton of people every year, you know, i travel a lot i presenta latto and part of an organization that connects thousands of people, you know? So i just i make so many connections myself, i’m always thinking about, oh, i know someone that i could connect you to, you know, but i often have felt at least over the last year, even though i think of that i don’t have a lot of tools that i have developed for myself in that moment to capture the idea. Like, i always assume i’ll remember, you know, a week later when i’m back in the office and then i’m like, i’m going to connect somebody, somebody else who knows who those people were, so i wanted. I want to think about two older processes for myself collecting cash through those ideas better because i know, you know, taking somebody says this heart is not the process that’s going to help me do that understand, put in my pocket, you know, the best kind of wear those pants like you say that booth with that person is, you know, you could do better than that. I mean, what about my method is taking notes on your business card with a hand when when i get it, yeah, but then i have to have a pen and what i found to be the biggest issue with that is that you begin that process is the number of people who print hyre, you know, business cars where you can’t write on them, like i have a laminated one, practically one yeah. Hey, yeah, so and that i feel like austin, when i’m with and then, you know, scratching into the surface instead of actually hyre upleaf exactly card course, but, you know, i always have my phone with me, even if i don’t have my wallet or my brain or anything else, i have my phone, so i’m going to test out and they would talk about this on your show, but i’m going to test out different out spur this kind of, you know, process to help me make sure that i should follow up with people and make the connections that i’m thinking of, okay, so you already have pulled in mind or you have to go. Yeah, i have a few, you know, some of them are based on getting someone out there starting some of them are more life pre-tax management depends on what works, you know, for my process in that, but there are a few that have been recommended to me, but i’m going okay, but overall, just be willing to do going to connect people, and i’ve always found communism that’s a basic latto tenet of fund-raising too. You don’t only know dahna silo a donor or potential bonem relationship only to yourself preserve it only to yourself, but to introduce two persons to other people in the organization, other potential donors because they might have something, you know, they might have a mama’s group, they might have killed your comments, or they might have fourteen in common. I don’t want to go into more detail that fort because of myself, but, you know, they might have muscle cars also wanted i don’t mind fixing things i don’t know anything about, you know, whatever they have in common, you know you want to make connections, and yeah, i mean, we’re in a connected world exactly much some people can isolate us a little bit, but we’re not actually well, what i really wished i haven’t found a way how anyone that has any of you listening to me? But i really wish that link in had a component where i could put, like, on my connection between myself and you. This is when tony and i first met or business when need in our first radio show together, you know, whatever saying feels noteworthy, you know, like a personal, personally, but you you got the public didn’t see that you know, this valley on adding it to your profile or something, but that’s where, you know, so many people rely on track of all of their professional connections. I wish that there was a way that just have a note that said, this is the conference where not person or, you know, come on and talk about whatever, like a mini prn exactly, you know what i’m like? And then what was great about leikin for me, we’ve gone down a rabbit hole, but, you know, none of the listeners stoploss now, so i hope you know what i think is great about later is that you coming out of u and i instead of making us somebody, you and i may know each other because of the radio show and maybe, you know, because i was in new york. And we attended some non-profit meet up together or something. But to you, that could be a really small part of all that is tony martignetti professional world, right. And and it’s, helpful for me to know this is how i know the person that i really like going to link into that i could see. Oh, wow. Tony has done all these other things. He has these other connections from other professional world that i’m not a part of versus creating your lot. People invested in time and making that personal database. The business card they collected people they meet, but it’s on ly then this sliver of how you know that that’s my life relying on lincoln, because then people can fill out their entire world, right? And i only knew them from one piece of it. But now i can still see oh, they have done all these other programs they have had these past job. You know, all of those other pieces? Yeah. It’s. So much more than you know about them. Okay, yeah. Unfortunately, i have to. It injects the artificial ality of being on show and you’ve got a way to take a break, okay got to take a break. Tell us credit card payment processing the video. They want you to watch the video. I would like you to watch the video. It’s not a long video. It’s tony dahna slash tony tell us, explains this whole process of business is switching over to tell us what the advantages are, how, how easy it is seamless it is, um, remember if if it turns out the tellers can’t save them money on their processing fees, then you get two hundred fifty dollars for each referral that you make that they can’t save the money on, but odds are they’re gonna be able to save the money, and then if the company switches that’s, where you get this long revenue tail, you know, there’s a hundred percent satisfaction rate among businesses and non-profits at tell, oh, so this is going to be a long, long revenue tail they’re going to keep your business is satisfied that make the switch and you’re going to be getting fifty percent of the revenue that tell us earns month after month after month so, you know, start thinking about the businesses that it makes sense. To refer local trucking company and i hope they’re drivers are home get there’ll be home each week messenger service but i hope they’re bikers are wearing reflective vests. The chinese restaurant. They gotta have general tso’s chicken, right. Make sure you try that italian restaurant, and i hope they offer a whole wheat pasta option. Please, please vote for that. If they do the thai restaurant on dh, you know, tie. You know they don’t use chopsticks taii with a fork and a spoon and spoon doubles as a knife. So check these all out. Think about the businesses. Watch the video, tony. Dot m a slash tony tello’s now back to any sample ward and her twenty eighteen plan more than any simple ward let’s. Keep talking about her twenty eighteen plan. Um, have you got everything you wanted exhaust on? What lincoln would do a little bit more way could spend when you’re talking about what i wished for every one that’s out there, but yes, for now. And happy to resolve that. Okay, so we still have a couple more minutes together. Okay. Um what what? What else you got for us? Years? Twenty eighteen plant. Well, you know what? Vincent, from the iss back when i was writing a book or having to publish content were regularly in-kind another book, you’ve done, all your books, i don’t know, and i’m happy to write another book, i just don’t know what it would be on, you know? So send your ideas my way, way, you know, different when i was in times of having to create a lot of content, it was easier because it felt like, on actual deadline, you know? And so since then, especially the last year, so it is always on my list, you know, i need to write several articles are i’ve even committed to this outlet to write something, but it is always the last thing on my list, you know? And i just hate that at ten we call it a shame spiral where because you feel that about something you then don’t engage with that day, but if they’re not engaging with it, more time has passed, so they feel worse about it. But then you feeling more like not with it? So then, you know, to learn will go by and i have to, like, reach out. To that outlet and say, so what? I’m honestly really sorry that i’ve not written this article i submitted a few months ago, but also i feel like so bad that i maybe can’t ever write it because i just feel so bad now, you know, it’s only this it’s so late in the relationship with partly from back-up abila what’s on now, i have somebody i owe something to boy, it was even paid content and he’s a good guy, and he sends a reminder once a month on, and i think i’ve gotten like, for those mind way still talk, we will talk about that. I know you just go down the way with viral. The one thing that we’ve started talking about is same claim instead of kayman viral just saying at the beginning, you know what? Like there is something about this project or the commitment or this act that, like i know is going to take me into same finals, i’m gonna own it up front and, like let’s, change the topic of the article. I’m obviously not interested in this one if i’m not going to connect, you know, whatever, whatever it is, just two more since claiming and lesson spiraling because i really like creating content, you know, sharing whether they’re my ideas are other people’s ideas from interviewing someone or whatever. I really love being able to create value and share content with the community, but i know in his destine such a source of that same spiraling. So this year i really want teo again. Maybe this is similar to the one where where the focus is actually on creating better thing for myself. But i want to find some ways where i do my calendar. My us on my mental state create room for those commitments instead of feeling like i always have to something for something now? Yeah. Playing your same one move. Exactly. Exactly. Okay, did you have any, uh, platforms or after that suggests that way? Just keep an eye on. Not that we jumped in, but anything emerging around the inten conversations that we should look at, you know? I mean, i posted it from staff, but i haven’t gotten a lot of answers back. A lot of folks are more about left. About three asked you. Have you have on your phone or something? And more about the way content outlets are changing. I think you were talking about on the show, but also we’ve all probably witnessed the way that content people, news content and in-kind contributed, you know, individual content changed in the last eighteen months because of the political landscape on dh peer-to-peer organizations are certainly a part of that shit, you know, both sensational kind of content and very, very pointed content and so dafs are less may be interested in emerging individual act and more what what’s gonna happen or what has already happened in with the way that content is being published and who’s sharing it and who who had the privilege of publishing that content, you know, and all that gets wrapped up in that that’s interesting because i feel like it’s related to a couple of things you and i were just talking about, i know that, you know, setting aside time for creative and, you know, getting over these obstacles that got, you know, changing the contract, but i think you said it must be that interesting, teo three months on, doll so you know what we started when dilgence talking about so the way you are feeling the way you are using you devolved, you’re you so, you know, the the huge platforms so i feel like i feel like the way the staff is has responded to you is similar to what you were thinking yourself sounds like, right? Yeah, yeah, in a way, for sure, and i think people came out it from different experiences themselves or, you know, different kind of focuses, but ultimately, i think everyone does center around that idea of who who’s behind all this microphone to smooth talk on them study was saying, how is this in passing? All of our community is how is this impacting our work? How are we a part of it? You know, what i’m basically saying is that they all are jealous that you’re on the radio every month, another country? Yeah, i remember you now the center of the universe, the way that’s, my believe that’s my interpretation of what you just always right on, you know, it’s right on and i and i hold it over all of that. So wei have one minute left together and i really have more than more than useful nastad out for non-profit technology. Conference twenty k. Yeah, the ntc this year will be in april, april eleventh through thirteen, and we will be in new orleans at the convention center on the the kind of plan on a longer hey insider protest is that the conference is wednesday through friday, but that we spend is a friend’s porters oppcoll so come come for the npc day for the french quarter enjoying new orleans. Awesome, thank you. A simple words, social media contributors piela then ten at ten dot org’s she’s at amy rs board thank you. Maybe i really didn’t know. Yeah, it was really fun getting to a phone call version. I know i agree. Vice bite-sized next week it’ll be a winner. There are no losers on non-profit radio. Well, maybe one i’m working on it. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuant. 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When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine am or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe, add an email address. Card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gifts. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.