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Carie Lewis Carlson & Lara Koch: Buy-In Bitches
I gave that title to Carie Lewis Carlson and Lara Koch as they explained how to get your boss to listen to you; to get your boss’s buy-in when you get it—and they don’t. They’re savvy, they’re straightforward and they shared tons of strategies. They’re bitchin’. Carrie is from CLC Consulting and Lara is at Smithsonian Institutions. (Originally aired 11/9/18)
Stephanie Zasyatkina: Process Blocking Your Progress?
Stephanie Zasyatkina wants you to pay attention to your org’s workflow. Identifying and overcoming pain points and inefficiencies will put your methods in line with your mission. She’s with InReach Solutions. (Also from 11/9/18.)
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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’ve come down with an applies Moses If you ticked me off with the idea that you missed today’s show buy-in bitches, I gave that title to carry Louis Carlson and Lara Koch as they explained how to get your boss to listen to you to get your boss’s buy-in when you get it and they don’t They’re savvy, they’re straightforward, and they shared tons of strategies. They’re pitching carries from CLC Consulting and Lara is at Smithsonian Institution’s. This originally aired on November 9th 2018 and Process Blocking Your Progress. Stephanie xero dahna wants you to pay attention to your organization’s workflow. Identifying and overcoming pain points and inefficiencies will put your methods in line with your mission. She’s within reach solutions. That’s also from November 9 last year, Tony said to I’m Looking for Innovators were sponsored by Wagner C. P A’s guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com Bye Cook a Mountain software Denali fundez. They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m, a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial. And by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Here’s the buy-in bitches. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 18 NTC. It’s a non-profit technology conference coming to you from the convention center in New Orleans, Louisiana. All of our ntcdinosaur views are sponsored by network For Good, Easy to use dahna Management and fund-raising software for non-profits. My guests are carry Louis Carlson Carlson. My voice cracked on knuckles. She’s the owner of CLC Consulting and Lara Koch, associate director of online fund-raising at Smithsonian Institution. Welcome, ladies. Hi, Tony. You have you both. I’m doing well. Thank you for asking. Thanks for having people Have you done your session already? Have mastered. Downside. Yes. It’s a fun from here on out. Exactly. More alcohol. Your session topic is real. Talk How? I got my leadership team toe. Listen to me, all right? Buy-in? Yes. Okay. Okay. From your session description, you had a quote. I get it. It’s my boss. That doesn’t exactly If that’s you talking, this session is for you. Okay, Larry, let’s start with you. Why do we need this topic? This cop, it came out of a 10 10 an NTC that Carrie and I were at two years ago, the one in San Jose. There was a session on the last day that turned into basically a big therapy session about the work we do and how hard it is and the things that no one really talks about. You remember our number of radio? Was that 16? I don’t unfortunately interesting that you don’t remember the topic. I don’t remember what came out of it. What the tangent was exactly that took over the over the room and there was one quote and I wish I knew who to attribute it to from that session that where someone said culture, each strategy for breakfast and and it really stuck with us. And this, uh, came out over and over about the things that we struggle with. And, you know, executive buy-in is something that comes up in almost every session you’re in, but it’s it’s a mystery. It’s feels like, Oh, just get the executive body and everything would be okay. But how? You know, how is it possible and I feel like Carrie and I are living proof that it it is possible. It’s a lot of hard work. And it’s, you know, there are strategies that we’ve both employed to make things happen. Okay, Carrie, you want to add something to the introductory remarks? Sure. Eso like Blair said, I mean, every single time we speaking unconference together how to get your boss Thio let you do the things you want to. D’oh! You’ve covered this topic multiple times. Yeah, Yeah. Even if the session doesn’t start out with that, it ends. It ends there. Yeah, yeah, and it’s and you know, most people are sitting in there. They’re listening all these great ideas. They can’t wait to go back and implement them, But they’ve got to get the OK, the budget, the time, whatever it is, and they don’t know how to do it. And so that’s why we wanted to talk about this. And like Claire said, it’s something that, um, people don’t want to talk about because it could sound like complaining or, you know, but we tried to give people actual strategies that we have used to be able to get the buy-in to do a lot of the great things we’ve been able to do together. Okay, so you ladies are the buy-in mavens. We try where buy-in buy-in matrons not think of a good alliteration to go with buy-in buy-in. Your brother’s bad. Okay? I feel like we could use the word, but I’m not sure we can say it. I love it so And 10 19 we’ll be back for the Tony. You’re setting us up. Please do it for neo-sage back. We’re coming back. I don’t regret it. Okay. Good thinking. Okay, okay. We got tactics. You got strategies we get. All right, So the problem is way feel so passionately about something, but we cannot. We just can’t convince the boss. Is that it? Is it always the sea level? Or it might even be our immediate Totally. Because, you know, they’re getting that pressure from the executives. You know, they’re the ones often in more direct contact with them. And so when you bring an idea to them, they’re thought goes there having the same thought. I’m gonna have to tell my boss how to accomplish this, how to get this done. And often, you know that immediate negativity or that immediate reactive? No. First here, and people have trouble asking for what they needed. Just it’s so hard to overcome that initial that initial. No, wait, you hardly even heard anything. I I hardly even made my case yet, and it’s already a note and then try to overcome that. It’s very, very hard and because, uh, because non-profits tend to be such a hierarchy and there’s so much emotion and passion in the work, we d’oh money. People hear that. No, and they back off, They’re done. You’re making a point. Well, I also want to say like one of the things that I was able to show is that I was able to get that full on buy-in relationship, that trust all of that with my immediate boss when I was at HSUS and he was really a on advocate and a, you know, backed me up on a lot of my ideas that were able to sell to the executives which were much harder. And I admitted this in session. I never fully got that buy-in and goal agreement and all those things with our executive suite in the 11 years I was there it was just there. There’s different priorities. Different, you know, generations. I was going to say that, but no, it’s true. I think generations, generational shifts in the workplace non-profits are so unprepared for this and and it’s and it is hurting them now because they don’t know, like, our generation doesn’t know how to relate to our C level executives who have been there for 20 years, and they have different, different way of looking at things, different priorities. And it causes this this clash. Okay, All right, let’s let’s get into some of our tactics. Great tactics, strategies. We could use those interchangeably or you. I think so, Yeah. Okay, so, yeah, let’s start the number one thing. And you know, this came up on every slide that we did was getting in being relentless about being in people’s faces and having a stick. Basically, every time you’re in a meeting, you have you repeating the same stats and you’re asking the same things over and consistency in your own messenger. Yes, exactly. I’m not giving up right when you hear. No, that was one thing I think that makes a lot of people uncomfortable. It’s like my boss says, No, I’m not gonna challenge them. Oh, but you should, because you have good ideas and you need to advocate for them. And you are the ones in the trenches. You’re the ones doing the work. You’re the ones in, you know, conferences like this you’re seeing what your what your colleagues are doing in the space. And you want to apply those things and that No, without a no but or no end. And I think that’s where you know, Carrie and I got the idea of basically going in really prepared, you know, anticipating questions and push back into anticipating the no, um, and coming up with strategies to see no say, Here’s how we’re going to do it. Here’s what we’re gonna do If we fail here, is gonna do it if we’re going to succeed. And then if you hear that, no. Is it, you know? Okay. Can I just try it once and we’ll see how it goes, you know? Can we test it because the data will out? I told the group like I love one. Tests fail. I want to be wrong because then I can let it go. I can say Okay, I thought it would work. It didn’t. I’m gonna let it go. And that’s why you know, But at least we got to try. It’s time for a break. Wedding. You’re CPS. Does your accountant return your calls and e mails? Do they keep to their deadlines? Do you like them? Are they nice people toe work with? Are they keeping mistakes to a minimum? If these aren’t all yeses, then maybe it’s time to look for a replacement. You know, a partner at Wagner cps euh doom. But on the show many times. Gonna be coming back early next year. You start at wagner cps dot com, check them out, and then ring him up. Give him a call. Talk to eat. See if Wagner can help you. Weather cps dot com Now back to buy-in bitches. And how do you feel with your respect your relationship with your boss? If you advocated for something and it failed Oh, I can talk about that. Please. Uh, this happens a lot, and it’s so important to be comfortable with then and accepting and and saying that this it’s fine that it failed, but here’s what we learned and We’ll do this differently next time. Last giving Tuesday right before I left. But I want to focus on your relationship with your boss. Right? You pushed and let’s say there was an initial. No. And then taking your advice, you challenged it. You gotta buy-in for a test. It failed, but you were the advocate for the You would advocate for the failure. Yeah. How does that how do you feel about the impingement on your relationship with your boss? How do you deal with your boss after that? That’s what I want to get. Well, it depends like that. That’s kind of where the early work of developing the relationship and the trust and all of that with your boss and your executives or whoever the decision maker is is so important. Because because I had a good relationship with my boss and I had spent years on goal agreement and trust and brainstorming and all of these these things that connected us, he is of the mind set of. Okay, well, here are all the great ideas you’ve had an executed one that didn’t work. It’s bound to happen. And I think that that over simplifies it but that that homework of developing that relationship with your boss ahead of time, Yes. And building on those small, easy wins, if that’s what you need to lay that groundwork, but and taking ownership of of, of your failures. You know, Carrie has a great example that she was gonna mention about giving Tuesday where she was convinced something is gonna work. They put into practice. It did fail, and Carrie took ownership. She said I thought this would work. It didn’t. Here’s what we learned here instead of getting defensive and you know it’s OK s O. I don’t exactly This is Yuri. This is your permission, right? I’m a gullible. Let’s leave it there. All right, All right. Move on. Yeah. So I came up with the idea of giving away little portable dog bowls. If you got your donation in ahead of time for giving Tuesday, we found from years past that that some people do want to get their gifts in early, which I find strange. But, you know, they have their reasons, and the data showed that. So I said, where were you with the duck boat? What kind of organization wear dog bowls with the Humane Society. Yeah. So, naturally, I was like this. I was really excited about it. Uh, well, they gave away maybe 100 of them. There are still 3000 of them in someone’s cubine hsus. And, um, I you know, I was like, guys. I thought this was gonna work, and it didn’t Don’t do it next year, right? And they’re not going to, but we did it. And that’s not the reason you’re no longer. I hope not. No e-giving Tuesday debacle. But I know those bulls are still sit here, and And we were, Yeah, you somehow. Yeah. Um, you know, and we were both honest in our session that, you know, we had those winds. We had those failures. But in the end, both of us did leave we both with it that the main society together, both of us did leave because in the end, you know, we made some progress, but, you know, it wasn’t enough. And those battles with our executives did wear us down eventually. And the first question that somebody asked at the end of this session was, How do you deal with all of this work and all this emotional toll that this obviously takes on someone to be constantly fighting for your ideas in your staff and all of that, Likelier said. We we both ended up leaving for this reason because you’ve got to know when you can’t do anymore, right? You know, And that’s the thing again, we’re all here for causes. We’re all here because we’re passionate people. You know, our jobs are so emotional, full of so much emotional labor, which I think makes word non-profit work really interesting. Um, and you know that you care right? And that is, you know, like I said, that’s where all of our sessions, especially when we present together, tend to end up because, you know, we’re proud of what we’ve accomplished. We’ve had some incredible winds, some incredible successes. But you know that work is constant. And because non-profit online and digital marketing and fund-raising changes every single day, it is not something like a digital direct mail where it’s pretty consistent. It’s pretty, you know, the nothing really changes their Facebook works one day based on what’s going on right now, who knows what’s gonna happen for Facebook tomorrow? Platforms to change. All right, Yeah, let’s go into more more strategies. You got you got one. Well, I touched on this, but one of the biggest kind of strategies for me was getting that visibility. I was relentless about getting into staff meetings and executive meetings and being that person that they they recognize so that when I came knocking on the door asking for something, they were like, Well, you know, Kerry has good ideas and she is smart and well respected or whatever. So that, you know, I told the audience, like If you’re one of those people that wants to work from home four days a week, you’re gonna have trouble selling your ideas because you’ve got to be around. And the executives need thio. No, you And with that comes trust and build a repertoire, and all of that’s interesting. My last conversation was about virtual employees and having a virtual organization. So you feel like in this realm, virtual employees are at a disadvantage if they are in leadership roles where they’re they’re selling ideas and managing staff and look like I flexibility. It was the number one reason why I stayed so long where I was. I’m a Mom, I I want to be able to do things on my own time. But if if I was not there pushing for what I wanted advocating for my staff, them knowing who I was because that’s how our management was. It was very management By walking around like you. You know, you have Thio be seen there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that’s nothing where that generational shift really comes into play, Maybe we’ll all be remote employees, you know, 15 years from now. But right now in the non-profit space, where again that hyre kiis so deeply grooved in, you know it’s being visible. And you know the point that the two women were just in the last interview majors. It really depends on organizational culture. Even that’s what this is all about. That even Trump’s age. You know, if the organization has a culture that empowers virtual employees, then then they may not have. The sheriff thinks that you’re talking about Carrie. Exactly. You’re right. It’s organizational culture. Yeah. Okay, let’s get aboard more strategies for challenging your boss. Well, you suggested Maybe it’s a no end. No, but we could test. That covers sort of the challenge of overcoming the know whether the techniques you should talk about data because you’re the data queen. Yeah. I mean, it all goes back to data, and I think a point, you know, having that data having those stats at the tip of your tongue. You know, stats that you’re repeating all the time. And, you know, getting execs love numbers very often. They don’t love the same numbers that we love. You know, they’re very focused on different numbers. So, eh, it’s focused on using numbers that mean something to them. Of course, a lot of those our budget numbers and revenue and opportunity costs. Um, Carey is done a lot of work where, you know, for redesigning the website, for example, when we were able to work with the vendor that’s redesigning that website and identify this is the money we’re leaving on the table right now. We’re having an old website, right that that those stats make sense to our executives. Even if vanity metrics, which breaks both mining carries hard, defend any social metrics. But if you can weave those in with the data that also matters is relevant Exactly, you know it is that you train them over. They will care about that spoonful of sugar that makes the medicine go down. You have 12,000 followers. Okay, We’ve that in exactly? Yes. Yes. You know, we, um example that leaves them, give them some of what they want. It’s like capture their attention. You know what? You’re the You’re the data expert in the organization. You know what? What? What’s Germaine? Yes. So give him a little of what they want more of what they need. And percentages? Yes, and percentage. You know, exactly. Because for example, Smithsonian redesigned their website last year and I was able to get a donation button on the website, which is a big win in the 1st 6 weeks of that donation button B On the sight, we saw 6000% increase in donations. Those numbers were super tiny, but 6000% wrenching casually to my boss in the hallway made me look like a superstar. And then they could repeat that elsewhere. But it’s it’s being, you know, unexamined. Well, one of our favorite examples was what we consider our magnum opus at the main society was our first day of giving on day of giving came as a directive and says, You know, Oh, we see university’s doing days of giving everywhere Just just do one Ah, and it has to be in restricted. We love unrestricted fund-raising. But we knew a day of giving out of nowhere in the middle of what is our biggest low month around spring March was going to be a hard sell. We knew we had a restricted program that, uh, you know, touched on all the things that that our constituents love. That hsus being pets, being people’s relationship with their pets, helping people in underserved communities get vet care for their pets. We put together a PowerPoint that laid everything out from start to finish, including a mixture of vanity metrics and actual Mex tricks and things like, Here’s what we do. If we fail, hears we do. If we succeed. We went in armed to the teeth, saying, OK, we’ll do this, but this is how we’re going to do it and we did, and we were end. Oh, and also that we need to go dark and everything else we’re doing so we can launch this huge campaign just mere months after our year and fund-raising campaign. And you know, we went in like an army, and we were able to get that message through because yes, it was the bitches and we did it. We did it and it was a huge success. But half a $1,000,000 yes, and repeating that in other ways, no through other campaigns has allowed us to just, you know, go in almost with an impenetrable armor to and confidence evidence. That’s a tough one for a lot of people. Talk about it more, I think, because people are afraid of being told no or that’s a bad idea or they’re just afraid of the rejection, kapin or failing on. And if you don’t have that culture of innovation and trust and all of that, that could be really intimidating. But I think after a while we start to gain gain our confidence. After we’ve we have good ideas and we implement them and they work and we want to do more s o that. But I think that’s a hard one for for a lot of people to have that confidence to go in and and say we’re going to do this or to your boss No, that’s a terrible idea. Which Yeah, and and I had we had 67 people come up to us after and tell their own individual stories of their immovable CEOs, you know, And And they, you know, they thanked us for ah, what we talked about. But still, you could see the fear in their eyes. You could and and that breaks my heart because again, these are people who want we’re doing mission based work. And we know how we can do it better because we’re doing it every single day. That’s the confidence you need to go in with you. You need to embrace that. Yeah. And say we were going to do this. Like when? When I decided that it was time to pick up the Web site redesigned at HSUS. I went to my boss and I said, I’m going to do this this year. I know the money’s there. We’re going to make this happen and I need an outside project manager. I didn’t go in and say had really like to redesign the website. What do you think you know? And that also helped him because it’s like I’m not going to that was another one of our tactics. Going with a solution, Not just a problem. And that takes a lot of the weight and a lot of the monkey off the off your boss is back. And that builds trust, too, because it’s like they’ve got this. You brought me a problem. Yeah. Yeah. And my boss used to always say that to me, Come to me with a solution, not a problem. And then that really also developed that that relationship of trust because he knew that I would handle things. Yeah. See Elsie working with Smithsonian. We’re not We’re just together. Not not yet. I will say yet hopefully in the future. But, you know, I would love that dynamo, but, you know, we we the bond that we formed working together, allowed us to kind of build that confidence off of one another. Um, you know, we both have different strengths. Um, and, uh, you know, we were able to move mountains at a place that is, um, like I said, it’s old school. It’s old school. No, it sounds like you suffered together that there’s this recognized social science concept. I learned it as a brotherhood of suffering, but it could equally apply as a sister of suffering. Prison isn’t. I don’t mean to analogize hsus prison, but prison is an example. We’ll take it. Okay, Um, I have something I want to chat with you. Uh huh. Because I know somebody very senior there. Um Oh, so, President, imagine what you’re suffering together. You that the common suffering day in, day out creates a bond. Sounds like that. Well, that was another one of our tactics, was yes. Was creating like a whole back-up napor greedy. Well, creating a like a mini culture within our department of trust and all of the things that we wish we had as a larger organization. You build them within the department and you do create this bond and use the work within your microcosm. Yes, and, you know, manage down, you know, manage, manage up. But also, manage down like you wish you were being managed down upon. Encourage people to come to ideas. Let them know it’s okay to fail. Let them know that you know you that, you know, they’re they’re they’re doing different work than we are as their manager. So they’re seeing things that we’re not seeing like something I tell my team now with the Smithsonian is you know, if I want you to come to me and say if you, you know, if if I didn’t if I my plate was clear, This is what I will be focusing on because I know this one. Don’t you wish one of our executives would have ever said anything like that tests? Because I I would give him Oh, I would roll out the scroll. It will roll down the hallway carpet. Exactly. And but I want to hear that because, you know, I’m spending so many plates all the time trying to, you know, be in this middle management role like I am, and I want to be able to that my team feels empowered to do that. And I think right now there are still ceilings that prevent that. Um, and the, uh you know, non-profits again? Have you know we intend to respect the CEOs as as being, you know, and that sea level, as you know, the end all be all right. And they’re not, you know, we were able to do in our world. And I say that this is especially true for non-profit marketing and fund-raising is that, um you know, it’s if you’re not living it, you’re not truly understanding it. And until executives see that and give you that leeway and you’re negotiating with them constantly about what you’re doing, what you know you can dio on Lee, Then do you even start to inch forward another thing I did while I was in a leadership role at HSUS. It sounds kind of silly, but I gave each one of my employees their birthday off, and that’s really cool. They get Thio, have an extra day off and whatnot. But what it’s really about is showing that I trust them enough to take a day off that they’re still going to get their work done. And that’s the kind of like an example of the kind of thing that was in our control. You would never get your birthday off, I think, as an overall level there, that’s just it’s It’s a culture of falik Alana non-profits work always on you to be seen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But our employees knew that we trusted them enough that they could take a day off, and I was adamant. And the question that came at the end about how do you deal with all of this? The emotional labor that goes into it? It’s about creating that balance, being relentless about self care and work life balance like it is achievable. A lot of times we do it to ourselves because we care so much. But creating boundaries with your your team, your executives, is that that’s how you have to. That’s what you have to d’oh in order to keep doing off this world. Also, this idea. Please hold your don’t lose that thought. Think this idea of doing as much as you can within your within what you do have, within your purpose exactly what you can for the people. You do have authority over medicating for your staff. That’s exactly what I was going to say is. Is being relentless and going back to that repetition a badge of honor that I wear is I was in a in a meeting recently with a strategic planning meeting with a lot of different people. Of course, the organization many, many of them hyre level for me, and at one point someone stopped me and said, We know how you feel about email collection. Lara and I was like, Great, I’m glad you do. It’s because I’ve been saying it nonstop. So even if you’re annoyed with me for saying it every time you’re finally listening to me because you know what’s not happening at the Smithsonian email, let’s talk about that, you know? And luckily, I feel like Carrie and I are good with people, so we tend to not come off as harsh. Um, we tend to come off more, is just assertive versus aggressive. But, you know, I I never I’ve had to learn that assertiveness in my in my work-life because it didn’t come naturally to me. It’s something that I learned, and once I saw the progress I was able to make by getting in people’s faces, being super, you know, straight and blunt and repetitious and, you know, making that eye contact with them. Um, you know, it’s a skill that I’ve tried to learn, and I’ve tried to give to my team a CZ Well, because you know it, we’re all in these cruise ships on. We’re trying to make these turns all the time, and things move very, very very slow trying to avoid thinking. Yes, for this experiment is trying to avoid a bow shot. Okay, we’ll leave it there. You threw a terrific Great Thanks. I love your energy. I feel that I feel the bond between yes buy-in riches here. First they are Carrie Lewis Carlson, owner of CLC Consulting on Larra Koch, associate director online fund-raising at Smithsonian Institution We are non-profit rate week are non-profit radio covering 18 ntc on this interview sponsored by Network for Good. Easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Ladies, Thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you very much for being with our coverage. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software is designed from the bottom up. Four non-profits. Simple to use phenomenal support. Can you say that about your accounting software? If using QuickBooks Quicken Turbo cash Workday zoho yet yet yet give it a test ride. Cougar Mountain has a 60 day free trial. You’ll find that on the listener landing page at Tony. Got em a slash Cougar mountain. Now time for Tony’s take two. Are you an innovator? Are you bucking conventional wisdom on tradition, perhaps tackling something differently? and showing success. That part’s important, the success part. If so, then let’s talk because you might be part of our innovators, Siri’s that, uh, I’m gonna be hosting in early 2020. If it’s not you, Do you know an innovator, innovative colleague friend, you or they get in touch with me? Um, use Tony at tony martignetti dot com, please. Or they can use. Or you use the contact page at tony martignetti dot com. I want to be innovators, people tackling things differently and succeeding at it. Doesn’t matter what the subject is. Program fund-raising Marketing Brand Identity Boardman Ege Mint If you’re an innovator and you’re successful, please get in touch and that is Tony’s. Take two. Now it’s time for process blocking your progress. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 18 90. See the non-profit Technology Conference Coming to you from New Orleans. This interview is sponsored by Network for Good, Easy to use dahna Management and fund-raising software for non-profits. My guest is Stephanie is a Sakina. She is director of In Reach Solutions, and her workshop topic is when process blocks progress. Workflow efficiency for non-profits Stephanie. Welcome to the show Thank you, Penny. What was the need for this thing? This topic. Why do we have to talk about this wire workflows in Borden? So we are, ah, small agency for, um, case management system Bird non-profits. We work in child welfare, and what we do a lot is implement the software with the agency. Right? A lot of these agencies do they struggle with understanding what they dio. It’s like you do it on a regular basis, but you don’t know certainly know how to communicate it. So when you’re putting it into, um ah, digital format into a software, we actually have to know what you’re doing in order to get the results that you’re looking for out in reports and things like that. Okay, right. And so if they can’t communicate it clearly, it’s hard to know where their pain points are, where to help them. And some people just aren’t prepared for that, especially the small agencies. They don’t have the staff on hand that have done kind of analysis of what their current processes are, or so what way we need to help non-profits do better than what they need to better understand what their processes Are they Dio? Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Definitely. Want to know how What? They’re be able to communicate where they’re at to understand where they want Todo processes their workflow there. We’re talking about the stuff they do day today. Yes. Okay. Um how do we help him do this? How do we help them? For what are we looking first for the pain points or we’re just trying to understand what the flows are first. Yet trying to understand what the flows are. The pain points often come out that absolutely in that discussion. Okay, so are we mapping the process is how do we How do we identify what are workflows are? Yes. So it would be lovely. Thio Question time, boy. Something radio Make sure. Do I understand what you’re saying? Yes. Uh, yeah, I do, do we? Is that we? Do we We mapped the workflows? Absolutely. Yeah, And a lot of that comes out through a discussion of, like, what do you do? It’s not super unconference it. Oftentimes people are so familiar with what they’re doing that when When they’re talking. When I asked questions about it, they’re actually no, I can’t describe it. they’re not actually sure. Sometimes they don’t have the right people in the room to make. They’ve not getting a full picture. And so it involves a lot of people on the team, and they’re different perspectives in order to get the full picture so that we know in the software. What are we planning to do for them? Like, you know, Do we want to automate some of the pieces? What? What are we trying to do to improve? They’re coming to us for a reason of their process. Yes, so often technology is blamed for problems when really, it’s the processes around the technology and maybe even some of the people that are the difficulties. It’s not the technology. No. Well, I mean, it might be the technology I sometimes astrology is erroneously blamed. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Because they’re not really sure what the process is and where either pain points are where, maybe even where they’re successful in something. And what do they want to continue to keep when they move to the next? The next piece of software okay, Thistle relates down to efficiency, right? It’ll be more efficient, effective, right, and we don’t do that by being introspective about what, what it is we’re doing. And it’s not even that everything is completely about efficiency. Mean that it’s gonna like help with the bottom line and with staying in budget. But I think duitz does your process actually reflect Your mission is important as well. So there are definitely things where we’ve done internal processes for my organization that we’ve changed in what we’re choosing not to make videos. Let’s say to make things super efficient and not cost so much because our mission is to empower organizations and to really like, partner with them and work with them. So we’re actually work. We’d chosen to speak live, you know, with our clients, and because we feel like that’s really, really important, rather than sending them off to just support guides all the time. That makes sense, right? So it’s like you need you need both. Not only are you looking for efficiencies, which definitely is going to be a value for your organization, but does it mission this mission suddenly All right. So if we do want to identify our workflows and then pain points emerged from that what way have technology? Torto, you said. Based on discussions, how do we start to work? How do we stop the map? Are flows rate of information and work through the office. So we actually like in the workshop? What we’re gonna talk about is you have done your job. No, it’s tomorrow day. So you’re still 1 30? Still thinking about it? Yeah. Always thinking about you have already finished there. Right? Right. Right, you have? No, not yet. No, I’ve still got to get used to be good tonight. Last finales. So how do we get this started? So the way that we like to do it, we watch. There’s this really excellent Ted talks by a man named Ted. Ted, Tom would Tom Logic. And he talks about taking a really simple process so that people understand why it’s even important to due process mapping. And and, um, he does it with with toast, right? So something that we’re all fairly familiar with it. How do you make toast taking that? And so that’s what within the workshop we’re going to do is diagramming toast to get people all on the same page. We understand that were regularly building process, and then um It’s interesting, cause then every every piece of every action item that you would d’oh to move your process from Step 12 step see? Okay, you will. You can sticky note it, and when we sticky note, then we have the ability to be flexible with our process. Who’s in the room when we’re doing this? Because, listen, listeners don’t have the benefit of being at your workshop. That’s why that’s why I’m here, demanding you to another 12,000 people who move, some of whom may be here. But not all of them, obviously. So they’re not going to see your toast Diet totally work, but this is something you can take okay, way have sticky notes who belongs in the room. When we start doing this, key stakeholders are in the room so it can be executive level. But I think it’s also the people who are literally doing the work. They need to be heard and understood because there may be points of process. Nobody knows that they don’t know that they’re doing some taking information from Jessica and bringing that in, but well, how do you get that information? Well, I just call her up All right, send an email and tell her that I need the info now for these three cases, right? We have. And then later today, I’ll need some or totally informal and see season. Doesn’t know that’s going on. Exactly. Know, they don’t know. We’ve had a client recently That your name is Jessica. I don’t even know. I was pulling around in a minute, okay? It was random. I don’t think you’re just Thank you. Is that we have a client that literally walks from their office paperwork over to another office. They literally walks were like this. Amazing. Or to save 500 steps every day. You have to find another way to get those steps in for your counters, whatever, but Okay. Okay. So So in the room. Yeah, if your fitness. Yeah, Um, so in the room, we have a whiteboard, and we have post it notes that we all the stakeholders and all the people are stakeholders, people doing the work. People doing the way also have senior staff. All right, and we’re taking a process. Like what? How do we define a process? So I I like to think of it in, um, sections so don’t think of it necessarily likes top to bottom. Group it into, like, parts of the process. So make it understandable and relatable really quickly so that you can start Thio drilled down more into more complex processes because a lot of times processes are nested. Right. So, um, during a licensing process, let’s say you would. Part of it is seating background checks. Part of it is getting documentation, part of it, a signing documentation. Part of it is writing a home study and then you’re gonna, like take it up to the state. Okay, there’s lots of different processes. And before we just say, OK, we do 123 That might be a good way to go about it is just ordering what you can D’oh. I like to section it so that it’s more manageable chunks that make sense. Okay, of course. And then and then put the chunks together. Yes, well, then you’ll see the whole top to bottom right? Then you will see everything together and because it becomes very overwhelming if you look at the whole process right and we work with adoption. Foster care agency licensing is one part of that process. So it’s knowing Windows licensing Come in. What happens before what happens after? But looking at one chunk at a time so that you can organized that? Okay. And then when you’ve got okay for step one of the licensing process is we send some email to a family. Um, we then can use it. Use that on a sticky note, and talk about that is like, how is that getting done? Is that sent the email or we mailing? Why would we male versus Versace sent an email. And so you start to have discussions and probably like you said, executive level may not have any idea that actually paper males actually going out and that all the packets are in different locations or the documentation that needs to go in that pack. It might be, You know, there’s things that start to come to light that aren’t necessarily known by everybody, as as the stakeholder. Everybody who should be in the room. Okay, um then after we’ve we’ve done our map of the process. What are we? Well, you said a lot of conversations going to emerge out of this just out of the mapping exercise, right? and pain points. My voice cracked. Sorry. Like I’m 14. Bank points are going to emerge, and that’s where we can maybe applies in technology. Thio make things more efficient for us. Certainly. Yeah, or at least change the Or maybe maybe the process even shouldn’t change. But we need to understand why we’re doing it this way. Is there a good reason for doing it this way? And is there a reason for not changing? That happens sometimes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It’s not that everything in your process needs to change. A lot of times you got where you are because you’re processes is working. It’s just there’s some reason that drove you to be, too to need to look at your process or like, you know, here we are at this technology conference. A lot of times it is to adopt a new technology because something doesn’t quite feel right. Um yeah, white hair. I believe I can pull this thing off your clothes. I have his white hair on my sweater. I can’t get it off because it’s so close. I can see it so close by you see a double and I kept grabbing the fake one. All right, I got it. Ah, little host. Digression. Okay, so there’s more to say about this, so I know part of your presentations will be mapping toast journey, but we don’t We’re not gonna do that here. No time for our last break. Turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories and get media attention on those stories all while building support for your work. They do media relations, content marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. You’ll find them at turn hyphen to dot CEO, We’ve got butt loads more time for process, blocking your progress. But we still have another, you know, 10. 50 miss together. So what are we gonna whatmore do? Small and midsize non-profits need to know about this. The workflow process, uh, so that they can scrutinized their own. I mean, it’s it’s important. No know, going into it it it could be a dip, a difficult discussion. It is always important to bring in all the players, right? And really, even though we on the radio aren’t doing that exercise, it is an excellent exercise too. Open up people’s minds to that we all understand how to diagram. Can we talk about it when we talk through the toast example? Totally. You know. No, I don’t think it has to be visual. Right. So this is we’re using this as an example of how to map your your own workflows process. Yes, exactly. And it’s and it’s ah, like and exercise. You can literally do this exercise with your team. So it feels kind of like, why would I do this? But it brings laughter. It brings cohesion. Um, and it also brings an understanding of Oh, we all see things from different perspectives. And when we actually talk about it and get it out in the open, we can see that and then improve our process. Because that might have been some of the problem is that you don’t actually know what other people are doing. A little skeptical that gonna bring all this out. Okay. All right. So go ahead. You the facilitator get us started. So the first part of the program are the exercise is going to be thio, actually. Diagram, toast. So with a piece of paper and you are going to draw an image of how toast goes from, you know, a piece of bread. Two toasts on, whatever it might be. So for me, I use the toaster. In other countries, they use a saute pan. Um, right at the end of the toast. Maybe you just want to eat it plain and dry. Maybe some people don’t. Maybe they put butter on it. Maybe they put jelly. I was I did this presentation in in California earlier. There was a gentleman from Australia. He puts Vegemite, right. It’s like what? What are the different people bringing? Some people look at these examples as, um, very people centric. Some people are very, very detailed. Some people keep it real simple. Well, I mean, included in this, you have to go to the go to the pantry or the refrigerator where you store your bread, right? You got to get you to get the substance for some people may not remember that step. And what’s interesting I actually just spoke with a client is very good that I thought that’s absolutely Yeah, I appreciate that. Okay, So, um, so I just spoke with a client who’s actually used the example in in her non-profit setting in the foster care agency she works with. And what she found was interesting is that she now knows kind of how people think, like, how they think about what they’re doing. And what do they need, Right? So she gave a really great example of one of the women needed. All of the resource is before I get started, I need to have the jelly Neto have the toast. They need to have, um, the plate. Right? Whatever reason Plan is a planner and that opened her eyes to how to better communicate with that person because not everybody comes in it that way. When I draw the toast, I get the plate in the middle. I also like we always joke about isn’t like I’m single, Mom. Some like doing the dishes when the toast is down. I’m doing something else because I’m gonna be super efficient. Okay, Okay. All right. So Okay, so there’s other value in this duitz. Yeah, in terms of understanding people’s work personalities. Exactly. All right. All right. What We teach us that little more. It totally. But I want value. Not just, you know, not just filler. So, um, what else? All right, So, you know, in terms of what else? What else have you learned from this? Well, so then Step two is to then take all of these action items, make the sticky notes right. Okay. And so the point of the sticky notes is our brains actually work better with work of almost taking notes. All of the action items, all of the action items. So refrigerator walked to the refrigerator, bring the knife out, get the jelly, get the bread pushed down the toaster, right. If you forget any of those steps, you have an opportunity to actually include them. You can also reorganize them. So if you find that it’s more efficient to get the plate and the jelly and the toaster and the bread and all of these resource is beforehand, you can move them from where I had them right in the middle, right up to the front. Which means that you might need pantry to store all these things, right? So, like, how can you make that part more efficient? Sometimes your eyes roll the back of your head. You know, you just when you’re thinking when you’re thinking, I thought you were having having a stroke? No, your eyes roll back. You know, I do a lot of weight. I don’t just recently started doing have been not crossing, but it’s like they’re rolling back like a stroke. How do you do that? I have no idea. It’s all white. Everything becomes white, There’s just eyelashes, and it’s probably can’t do it on do it consciously. But I’m thinking, Yeah, it’s going real time. I let it go. One person let go. But now you’re gonna call it out. Thanks. Probably nobody noticed. Well, everybody’s gonna know my eyes turn away Another 12,000 pod castles. They definitely did not notice. Okay. All right. So you have fun here non-profit radio because you’re not gonna have fun. Then why the hell by d’oh bother. I dragged my ass over here. That maybe I don’t. I always, you know, Thio, New Orleans, great city. OK, I know it is, but I wouldn’t have been here if it weren’t for ntcdinosaur you probably on a beach in North Carolina. Yeah, anyway, okay, that’s a host aggression again. Um all right, so what the Post it note stage every little step and then you can decide Reorder you can reorder and s o Tom says that the the ease with which we can re order it makes us more likely to improve the process, right? Are were more willing to improve. We’re willing to change things when it feels feasible and easy to do that. If we can’t If it feels like you know, um, my team member created a diagram on, um, some program, right. So it’s got the arrows like Power point or something, right? Like she did this. All this work to make this process look like that unless likely to go in terrible her work. But sticking notes are really easy. They’re real cheap. They’re very like budget friendly, obviously for organizations. And this toast exercise really again just allows you to be free flowing with it. Part three. Okay, let’s move on. A par three is then to take everybody’s individual sticky notes and put them together. So now you’re actually building cohesion. You’re hearing actually what other amglobal wants? You’re putting them up on the board, am tryingto rationalize them all into the same process. Exactly. But some people, some people have some steps and other people skip those steps in Italy, they might not plug in the toaster. Nothing’s gonna happen if you press that down, right? And so it’s like you can pull all the all the pieces. This is where where someone is walking, you know, the boulder from one organization to another. You realize that that you didn’t realize that was actually happening before you finally get to hear everybody’s voice. Okay, Is there a step for no? So that’s that’s the exercise. But then the thing is, is guest set for, I guess. Yes, Retract what I said. Yes, there is a Step four is to do this with your own processes, right? So to look at this really complex process, you need to organize it into smaller chunks that are more manageable, right? And then you can diagram it. You can sticky. Note it. You can work together and bring in where What? The program manager believes that the processes and then that people who might actually be doing that process and hearing like I brought up this home study or the licensing process. There are certainly program managers that are approving. They might initiate part of the process. They are, um, connecting that process with the case manager with social worker. All these people are coming together to make this process happen. There’s also external factors, like the state agency or the back where the background checks are being done, or the people who have to approve the home study. So there’s all these people at play, and it really helps to bring ah Fuller Circle because the program manager might only be connected with the case manager and a social worker. But these people are connected to the state agencies. And where does the family come involved? Right, So you’re pulling ever. You’re being able to see everybody. Okay, now, in your own organizations, if you’re not doing this kind of work, um, there may be processes that that you’re just not comfortable with. Maybe maybe even before the before you identify specific pain points. You just know that something is something is not right about the way we I don’t know, acknowledge and process donations and send acknowledgements. You know, there’s something that it takes us too long. It feels like it’s harder for us than it is for my friends and other organizations, so that might be a rationale for applying this process. Absolutely. That process applying this this exercise to that process. Okay, okay. And really, I mean, Tony, you can also mean we’re always doing process. So I love this book. Um, I might get the title a little bit wrong, but it’s like the life changing magic of cleaning tidying up, and she actually discusses process in our life. It’s just like spring cleaning every year. But she organizes, um, all of your items in your house into certain groups. Then she you take out what’s what’s not needed. You hold it up right? And so I talked about the mission is like holding it up to you. Don’t feel joy when I touched this item. If no, it’s gone. It’s no longer part of the process. So, like part of the process, I guess when you’re combining and you’re finding that cohesion with all your team members is going back and aligning with your mission and even even the mission or the mission of whatever project you’re working on, right? So if it is your donations and acknowledgments, you’re wanting to get those out. How? Making sure that that aligns with how you run your organization, the values of your organization, how you value your donor. Okay, Because a lot of times donors are multifaceted and how they work with your organizations. They’re not just offering funds to you like they might be boardmember sze. They might have been volunteers. Some of the agencies that we work with, they might have been families. So how are you touching all of these? These people who have multiple connections to your organization. Okay, Okay. And I like how you bring it back to mission also mean that mission. It’s sue and whatever, whatever this process is that your being interested. Really? Really. This is organizational introspection, right? I mean, that’s the way I see it. You’re you’re you’re you’re taking a deeper look at yourself as an organization. How do you work? Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, like I said to write. So I didn’t want to throw in that, um, that book just because it felt really good. It’s just like you would do spring cleaning annually. You’ve got You’ve got to constantly go back to this. So, um, sometimes your mission might be stale. Your, um, people aren’t feeling it. I mean, you just have a sense if you’re in the organization. So wishes it’s out of the mission is Dale. It could be there is potential for that. Right? So it may or may not. One of the things in certainly in the workshop that we’re going to talk about is actually making people also relate to the mission. So, just like the process of mapping out where your processes making it possible so that your team actually feels the mission that they relate to it. That’s not an abstract idea. If it is a top down or as you’ve added people into your organization over time, though, it could be you. Yes, you may have. Your mission may have become less relevant. Or or you may have strayed from it, diluted it or the mission itself may require evaluation. Rethinking? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay, that’s a very healthy exercise. We’re gonna leave it there. Ok? All right. She is Stephanie newsjacking and she’s director of Reach Solutions. I said it right tonight. Bear close. Yes, yes. Okay. And my interview with her with Stephanie Sponsored by Network for good. Easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you so much for being with non-profit radio coverage of 18 NTC next week. What business is that of yours? If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Wagner. CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers bruckner cps dot com But koegler mathos software Denali fundez they’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits. Tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Our creative producers Claire miree off Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scotts. Dine with Me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day. Do you run or are ready to open your own business? Hi, I’m Jeremiah Fox. I’ve been operating an opening small business for the last 25 years, and I’m the host of the new show, the entrepreneurial Web tune in every Friday at noon Eastern time. for insights and stories on the nuances of running small business right here on Fridays at noon talk radio dot N. Y c. I’m the aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Friday’s 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com. 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