Henry Timms:New Power Why do some leap ahead while others fall behind in our chaotic, connected age? Co-author Henry Timms, president & CEO of 92nd Street Y, has the answers from his book, “New Power.” (Originally aired 6/8/18)
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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on her aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d go through valvular us if you told me the twisted idea that you missed today’s show. New Power. Why do some leap ahead while others fall behind in our chaotic, connected age? Co author Henry Timms, president and CEO of 92nd Street. Why has the answers from his book New Power This originally aired June 8th 2018 on Tony Take Too Bad Data at Consumer Reports Responsive by Wagner C. P A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com By koegler Mountain Software The Nolly Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non-profits? Tony got em a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to DOT CEO. Here is New Power with Henry Timms. I’m very glad to welcome back Henry Timms to the studio. He is co author with Jeremy heimans of the new book New Power. How Power Works in Our Hyper Connected World. and how to make it work for you. He’s president and CEO of 92nd Street. Why he’s cofounder of giving Tuesday. Henry is a visiting fellow at Stanford University’s Center on Philanthropy and Civil Society. He’s at Henry Timms, and the book is at this is new power dot com. Welcome back to studio. Henry Timms is very nice to be back. I’m very glad to have you. It’s been a couple of years we were last time talking about, I don’t know. Maybe it was the third year of giving Tuesday or something like that. Back in the infant days of giving, choose to indeed, which is Ah, a new power organization. New power model on. We’ll get. We’ll get to that and lots of others. But, you know, let’s start at the basics. What, uh what is this New power? Why do we need this book? Well, I think actually giving Tuesday is quite a good example of new power works. So what new power is is this power Thio, Mobilize power in a world where we’re all connected? How do you think about mobilizing a crowd around the things you want to happen in the world? and so e-giving Tuesdays what we would call a new power campaign. So giving Tuesday was designed to be owned by a lot of people that was designed to be connected. It was designed to be kind of ownerless. It was designed to be made by many, which is very different design than how you might think of the old power design of something like giving Tuesday. So let’s just imagine, as a thought experiment you were gonna have a national day of giving an old power world. You would call it something like the 92nd Street wise giving Tuesday right co-branded very heavily. You’d make sure that anyone who was involved put your logo as high as they could on their pay. You should make them sign a long legal agreement, saying the way they were going to give was his one specific way on this one specific day. And if we had done that with those kind of old power mindset, e-giving Tuesday would have scales nowhere. Instead, what we did with giving Tuesday with we took our brand off it we designed giving Tuesday so it would become more interesting as other people grabbed it so e-giving Tuesday has become giving Blue Day and at the University of Michigan Rescue Mission, Everyone and e-giving Shoes Day dressed for success and IT list goes on on giving week in Singapore. It’s now in 100 countries on it, and the reason that has happened is could be designed in a new power way that we designed it so other people could could make it and take it somewhere new on. And so, in a way, if you think about what new power is, new powers kind of lives in the spirit of giving Tuesday, which it’s It’s this way of thinking about the world where what you’re trying to do is not create a program that is all about you, that you download onto the world in this stage, or trying to create a movement that is around the set of shared values that mobilizes other people around. Your mission has a really important idea. Other people around your mission. If you think about to take a big step back, think about the world right now. Who’s winning right now? Anyone who is winning right now really understands this new power, so I’ll give you a couple of examples. Here’s an inspiring one that never again kids. The park from high school kids. Now that was a distributed movement. It was technology focused. It was made by many. It surged very quickly through the country and powerful ways. You look at the metoo movement again. Metoo got stronger and stronger as more people added their voices. More people connected together. It wasn’t about one person. It was founded, of course, by the activist Tirana book. But the new incarnation of metoo is about is about millions of women everywhere now telling their stories in a communal way so we could be very inspired by new power movements like Never Again will like me too. But you can also look att, the success of Donald Trump. There’s a darker side. Well, I mean, I know that you think of Isis That’s your political commentary rather than mine. But so, yeah, I think there is a darker side, which is so if you look at if you look at the way in which Donald Trump, whatever your view on the president, maybe he has worked out how to take this crowd and to surge this crowd into office with him and to support his agenda. Buy-in this huge mobilization based around him. You think back over the election, his capacity to conjure up to mobilize that crowd was with what really got him to stand out. If you remember back when the throughout the election, the favorable unfavorable ratings, a favorite bilich Hillary’s favorable was always hyre than Trump’s. Neither were very high, but he was always hyre than Trump’s. But what Trump got right with intensity. He built this intensity a scale around his movement. He retweeted the most extreme supporters. He promised toe pay, the fees of people who punched protesters. He created this kind of intensity and a movement around him, which surged him into office. And so what new power is and whether it’s a trump who’s working out how to do this, whether it’s the never again kids, whether it’s a platform like Facebook or uber. What is constant in all of these models is people have worked out how to mobilize people around their mission in a powerful way, and that’s what the book is about. The book says that no matter whether you’re running a small non-profit or you’re running for political office if you don’t know how to understand the power of the crowd had howto start movements how to spread ideas, how to raise money. If you haven’t got this new suite of skills, you’re gonna get left behind the dark example that I was thinking of eyes was Isis, right? You, you, you you come back to them several times in the book Also harnessing the new the new power Well, for good reason There’s a story off, eh? Scottish schoolgirl called oxen Mark Mood in Glasgow and she way learn about her research in the book. She comes from a nice family. She loves Harry Potter. She’s described as somebody who can’t find her way into the center of Glasgow on the bus on Dhe. But in the evenings she’s being radicalized online and no one knows about this. And one day she disappears. Onda phone. Three days later, the phone rings and she’s calling from the borders of Syria and she’s left home and she’s made. She’s she’s made me hard. And what’s interesting is her story that doesn’t end. What then happens with Dr Markham, you know, she actually becomes one of Isis is most effective recruiters, and she builds this girl to girl network. That’s that’s how it’s referred to using all of these new power tools she uses all the social media tools she has is amazingly emotional. On a motive tumbler account, she uses telegram. She works out how to kind of get this crowd of girls like her around the world. Mobilized around. Isis is mission on dhe. Girls start following her to Iraq and Syria. Girls start making the same journey that she has made because she’s worked out how to get the power of the crowd heading in the direction that she wants to. On This, of course, is someone This is essentially a medieval theocracy who has worked out how to give agency to their followers so their followers can take that movement and make it their own. If you want to contrast the new power of Axum mark mood, I think about how the State Department tried to deal with this. So at the same time, she’s spreading her ideas in this very new power way around the world. The State Department. The first thing they do is they dropped cartoons out of the back of a bomber to land on the heads off civilian population literally top down. It’s really top down on they had. The that tactic was first used in the first World War 100 year old tactic they’re using. They then eventually got a Twitter account, which was called Think Again, Turn away exclamation mark on basically scolded people for wanting to join Isis, commanding right with with a big logo of the State Department. And, as it turned out, to tactics not likely to dissuade potential, Hardee’s is scolding them on big State Department lugers. So those kind of stakes of our time, right? Are you approaching the world with a new power mindset where you understand how to connect these krauz and tow spread agency throughout movement and to connect people and offer people belong in an agency? Or you still in a mode where you think you’re just dropping down your leaflets on the world and the job of people there simply to absorb your content? And in the nonprofit sector in particular, we still see a lot of organizations who is still in the kind of old power Mark Mo’s on. They aren’t working out this set of new power skills. It’s time for a break. Weather CP is they have a new wagon are on September 10th. Leaders Guide to Understanding, not for profit financials, CEOs, boardmember directors. You don’t need accounting detail, but a basic understanding of financial statements will improve your decision. Making. You got a witness? Cps dot com Quick resource is and upcoming events. Oh, but did you miss it? And you need the archive. Go to Wagner cps dot com. Quick Resource is and recorded events. See how they see the symmetry. One is upcoming events, the other was recorded events. It’s all very, very diametrically advantaged. Now back to new power. The book starts early on. There’s, ah, very good example of another example that’s very timely new old power clashing with new power. Harvey Weinstein and metoo. You tell that it’s it’s the same contrast, but it’s so topical. Well, yeah, it was actually very last bit of the book that we wrote, but because it was so over the moment that the so you think about the way that Harvey Weinstein exercised power. It’s kind of the worst kind of old power, so it really waas you know, he had this power like a currency, right? He had this huge store of power he could decide to spend down or no greenlight movies. He could start stop careers. He could startles, stop rumors. He literally held Hollywood in his hand for decades, and it was very much about him. Real Leader, Leader driven approach, which is often true in the old power world. There was a funny statistic that over the last 30 years, the two people thanked most often from the stage off the Oscars were Harvey Weinstein and God. So that’s one of the ultimate old power. And of course, what metoo does is plays a very large part in toppling him through its capacity to conjure up new power. So metoo was made by many people. That wasn’t about one leader, that it was very much leader full as a movement. It it changed. It Maur fu. It was open. It was participatory. All of these different flavors were really about how you think about power very different. We contrast the power of Harvey Weinstein, which is powers a currency to the power of something like me too, which is power is a current new power is something that you don’t own it. It flows on and it moves. And if you can shape it in the direction you’re trying to get in the world, you can have a huge impact. But it’s a very different way about thinking about how power flows in the world. You Ah, you’ve ruined my life with this with this book. Well, that was That’s the new blub for the paperback durney martignetti. I’ve ruined your life. Well, it is. It is about me because I’ve been going through. We’re going through New York reading this book on I’m tagging things as your soul power. I don’t have the bus drivers subway. I’m thinking the subway conductors. God, you’re so old power. I mean, and I could be on a lift right now, um, and lift the new bird there. An interesting contrast between the different models and values. So I’m I’m I’m hypersensitive Thio old power. And then I had to bring it to myself, and I was thinking podcasting, podcasting. I I’m very, very serious, But some very concerned podcasting is, uh I curate and produce and distribute. And then about 12 or 13,000 people Listen, I mean that’s Is that classic old power? Yes. Yeah. So the question what happened? I mean, I was an early adopter. I wasn’t a pioneer in podcasting, but I was an early adopter. What the hell happened in eight years? I got passed by. So his question, I suppose, which is what were what would you What would you and could you do with those 13,000 people other than asking them to listen? So the old power will typically off people to do one of two things you consume or you comply? Those were the behaviors most organizations look for. So media was a good example, right? You consume the media, podcasting, you consume the podcast. The government base, he said, follow the laws do-it-yourself old. But we didn’t re ask people to do much more than that. And so the interesting question, I think with media in particular, is what is the invitation for people to doom or than simply consume? How can they play a role in these kinds of opportunities and moments on it’s telling that you look at things like voting on American Idol. More people vote for American Idol than ever in presidential fashions, right? people want to consume you look a platform like read it. So read it is entirely curated. It’s participatory engine. All of the things that end up on the front page of Reddit end up there because the crowd wants them on the front page of Reddit. All of these platforms what? What? We were classified. New power platforms are designed to ask people to do more than simply to consume. And so, in an era where now half of people. And I’m sure it’s true of people listening to this podcast right now as the interesting exercise. If you’re interested, if the moment you listen to this, you have a phone in your hand and you are looking at your phone, please tweet about. So whenever he is that he is an excellent abila live excise Right now, anyone who is listening right now who is who has a phone in their handlers are looking at their phone whilst listening for this tweet about it. And if you’re listening to this on download on, you’re also looking at your phone to tweet about it because my suspicion is and this is true of TV. Half of the people watching TV now staring another phone. So the question is, why are they staring at another phone? Is it cause TV’s boring, you know, to some degree. But it’s also because they’re looking for a way to be involved in something new that they’re not content with. Just sitting there watching the TV. They want to do something else. So the organizations and individuals who are winning right now working out what that invitation to participate looks like. And I’ll give you another example, which I think is an interesting one. Looked something like Snapchat, right. Before you give you example, if you’re gonna tweet, use hashtag non-profit radio on hashtag new power. Good, very nastad non-profit radio hashtag new power. I’d be interested to know whether that where the people are listening to this and looking at something else, I think they probably are. So the question then becomes like Snapchat is a great example, which is wider Snapchat work. It works because you’re asking people to do more than consume when it’s Facebook work. You’re not just consuming content, you’re sharing it, you’re liking it, your creating your own content where someone like the ice bucket challenge work. It works because we’re asking you to do more than simply donate. That list goes on here. But whatever you’re trying to get done in the world right now, if the only invitation you have is consume, you are likely gonna have an old power model which may not hold up over time. Yeah, that’s why I’m scared. Well, I don’t think you should be scared. I tweeted I tweeted about two hours ago. We hope I’m very nervous about this. Well, so he don’t listen. I said please don’t listen. Well, isn’t actually in the downfall of the show. Let’s try an experiment. Let’s try a second experiment now. So we have is turning into a therapy session way don’t We don’t need therapy in my country. So if you think about if you think your way, I need to know we have people. No, but I like your question. No, I want to try an experiment. Trying, trying to be new power. You hes my experiment central. Well, so his experiment, your listeners, a largely non-profit people. Okay, so we have a frame in the book for how you think about spreading ideas. Let me tell you about that frame. And then let’s challenge your listeners to think about that frame and work out a way. They could apply it to their own worlds. So the frame is around, how you spread ideas. So what we say in the book is, if you want to spread ideas in the new power world, it’s very different than the old Powell’s. So in the old power world, what we would do, we try and create the perfect sound by or the kind of perfect logo and get everyone to replicated or admire it. In the new power world, the ideas that end up working are ones that are actually designed to spread sideways. They’re designed to pass from person to person to person to person. And there are three key principles. If you want your ideas to spread in a new power world, unless use the ice bucket challenge a Zen example here I think it’s a good one. The first principle. It is actionable. You’re asking people to do something. So the ice bucket challenge they were asking people to pour water over their head to donate, to share, to nominate those bunch of things you’re asking people to do so number one is actionable. Number two is connected. Theo Ice Bucket Challenge work because it tied people together peer-to-peer so that it really began when a group of golfers connected with a group of L S sufferers and that kind of began the ice bucket challenge. But the reason it worked in general is because it was past between peoples peer groups, so people nominated other people to do the ice bucket challenge. It moved what we call move sideways. The second principle of your idea spreading is connected. The third principle is extensible. You create ideas that can turn into something else. So when the ice bucket challenge, when the actor Patrick Stewart did the ice Bucket challenge instead of pouring water over his head, he got a porter’s off large whisky, dropped some ice cubes in, wrote a check and then said cheers to the camera. The idea could turn into something else. It wasn’t a franchise, it was an extensible idea. So those three principal spell ace, a C actionable connected extensible e-giving Tuesday, Another good example, right? It’s actionable. It’s giving Tuesday. You give it’s connected, it ties you to all these other people are always other causes. Its extensible giving Tuesday turns into all sorts of different things that move around of the world. Metoo is another example. So metoo actionable metoo literally. It’s actually more connected. It ties you to all of these other women. It ties you to this shared cause. Extensible. When metoo gets to Frantz, it turns into denounce your pig. So even the framing itself changes. So here’s the challenge. Fuel. 13,000 listeners think about those three principles actionable connected. Extensible. Think about the things you’re trying to get done in the world. And can you imagine an experiment with your work with your ideas with your cause that you could design in an ace way? Um, have a go at that, See how it goes on, then tweet back What you learn to hashtag non-profit radio on. Let’s see what we learn and hash tag New power. No, I’m gonna be very new power about it. I don’t only my brand in there. You feel free? I just wanted you to read it. I I constantly follow new power non-profit radio tweets. Okay, Don’t Okay. Okay. Um I mean, I just wanted to have a way to find them. Okay, I think I think I’d like to hear from anybody. If that’s see, that’s chapter three of the book. I think about that framework. See if it works for you. See what you could design, even in a small way, with those principles, and see where it takes you. Okay, um, turning into a therapy session. But so if I was gonna apply this to tow a podcast, um, it’s got it’s more than just, you know, submit your questions. You know, that’s that’s me choosing the guests, and then you submit questions. You know, it’s gotta be, um but but how did you But then how do you get it to everybody? I mean, it has to be distributed. What isn’t I mean, that’s there. I think they’re a couple of answers to that. What one is? I think the exercise we just did is a step in right direction, which is you’re you’re working out ways, and this is a kind of Keanu power principle. You’re working out ways to invite people to do more than simply listen. So what? I just did what I said. Here’s set of ideas. What do you think can you create some interesting content around those and maybe, maybe not. We’ll see. It’s an experiment, maybe something this is that frame will resonate with them. They’ll take it and put it to their own ideas, and they’ll share something back with you. Now if they do share some things back with you, how would you then think about taking that content in learning from that content, sharing with other listeners, building a community around those ideas. You then starts getting kind of back and forth between US host in the community at large on building that relationship, I think seems to me the interesting future off media in general, which is people are gonna want to have their voices heard We’re so used to face. But why do we love Facebook so much? We love it because it allows us to feel like our voices hurt right. We get to comment on things we get to like. Things is very. It’s very human. It’s very, um, is very provocative for people to feel like they have agency. So So I think people need to design at the interesting. The irony of podcasting actually is what ended up happening is podcasting itself is a very new power tool, so anyone could start a podcast where I could your podcast on my phone as I leave today. So it’s actually democratized the capacity to create media. What’s interesting is most people then approached in a very old power way. So what’s happened is, lots of people have just behave like they’re the BBC. I’m gonna have my all for your voice and my oath. Auriol voice will be broadcast down to the world. What hasn’t happened is a lot of people have grabbed it and actually then used the opportunity to engaged, actually engaged in very new power ways. But I’ll give you an example of an organization. I really like the look off Who does this well, which is the organization called the correspondent altum correspondent in the Netherlands to their media company. There they were, start up. They were crowdfunded into existence, their newspaper, which is supported by their members. So it’s all funded by the readers themselves, and they even now give their readers profile, full profile pictures and expertise domains. So if they’re writing an article about national security, they have 400 readers who have had careers and national security who have identified their national security experts. They then crowdsourced the articles they’re writing with this group insights and comments and opinions before those are schools and then posted. So they thought about the whole process of journalism and how every point you can invite more people to play a meaningful role in how that work is shaped and shared on Bill on. So I think the future of this work looks a bit more like that Where media becomes There is definitely a role for the for the expert, for the for the journalist. But that journalist is building a high quality, participatory set of behaviors around their art. I think that’s the key lesson. Let’s make something explicit the models versus the values. There’s a chart table trying the book with four quadrants, um and castles and coop tres and crowds. And remember the 4th 1 butt And let’s let’s, uh, yeah, I want I want to flush out some of the more details before we go toe models of leadership, ideas of leadership, actionable things that non-profits can be thinking about beyond the ace. I mean, I love the East Challenge, so these models and values. So we make a distinction between the whether you have a new power model on whether you have new power vase and they’re very different things. So a new power model is basically, you have this capacity to deliver mass participation, and Pierre collaborations of Facebook is the best example. Facebook is amazing new power model. The model allows lots of people to collaborate, connects, create, share all those good things. And the, uh, you think about the i. R S. P. I. R s does not have that model or the IRS simply says pale taxes. And here it is, and then they’re not engaging with you in a participatory away in a meaningful way. They just simply telling you to do as you’re told now new power values. There are those organizations who have new power values, who care about things that the wisdom of the crowd and transparency and kind of make a culture all of those good things. What we think of his new power values and an old power values much more around kind of professionalism, a managerial ism and expertise and all of those kinds of things. So there’s a really balance now between whether you have a new power model or it’ll power model on whether you have old power values or new power values, and you start thinking about your own organization. It’s an interesting thing to think about. So we think about these kind of four archetypes in the world that the first of the castles and the castles are organizations who have no power models and old power values to the I. R. S is a perfect example of that. I put the United Way when we wrote the H. P. R P s. I put the United Way in that quadrant two. They have old power values and an old power model. Interestingly, a lot of local chapters of the United Way. We’re actually moving away from that model now toe quite effective degrees. But I think in the philanthropy world, you can think about kind of the old school United way mortal. Where everyone has to do is they’re told, pay for their put their money into their local parts of their boss. Looks good, right? Veil, pal model you then think about the cheerleaders and cheerleaders of those organizations who have old power models still but actually are exhibiting new power values. So think about the clothing firm Patagonia. They sell clothes, right? They’re asking you to consume. That’s what they do. But actually, they’re building a very participatory brand. They’ve got a whole activism platform now around their brand they’re trying to build. They’ve been very transparent about their supply chain, even some aspects of it. Quite troubling. So we see a lot of organizations in this kind of cheerleading space where they haven’t really changed their core mortal. But their values are starting to shift, and then we have what we think is kind of the crowds and the crowds have new power models and a new power values. So think about the extreme thing about black lives matter. Um, extraordinary new power model distributed extraordinary new power values. They’re so intentional about being a leader full, they use that phrase all the time. I lead a full organization about how they make lots of people more powerful on that quadrant is really about new power, meeting new power. And then, most interesting of all, is perhaps the quadrant we think about is the cooperators, and these are people who have worked out new power models but actually have very old power values. So we’ll use Facebook again as an example. So Facebook has this amazing new power model, but their values of very old power it’s very secretive. The governance is really hidden in a small number of people. The algorithms. We have no idea what they’re doing or how they’re working, and they shape our lives. Well, elections the value of Facebook. We contribute our data day after day after day, and other people extract the profits. So they’ve co opted new power. Uber also were also to a lot of people in the coop. And interestingly, there’s been a real one of the interesting. One of the interesting phenomena in recent months has been this kind of rising political consciousness against the platforms that, you know, for years, there was this kind of huge, utopian enthusiasm, for we’re gonna connect the world, and if the world’s all connected, everything will be terrific and people know that’s not true. Now we know that actually connectivity alone, it isn’t gonna deliver some instant utopia. What was actually gonna happen is all of this participation that we’re all doing actually makes a few people, very powerful and leaves a lot of people actually less powerful. So the big philanthropic question of our times Well, certainly one of them not the big question. One of them is gonna be. How do we think about platforms? How do we think about their role in a philanthropic world? How do we think about the the intermediaries? We all now hovers non-profits like a Facebook who often will be the distance between us and our audiences that often be smart. And then there’s some amazing things happen. Facebook has done some terrific stuff recently around waving fees around giving and on connectivity. And it’s actually a lot of science of I think I see some very hopeful science commit Facebook in terms of how they’re thinking about their philanthropic role. But arguably they’ve very quickly become one of the most powerful philanthropic actors in the world. And so how they think about that set of questions is gonna be very interesting. Big implications, right? Yeah, huge. We have about a minute and 1/2 or so before break. A couple of weeks ago, I had Sheila Warren on from the World Economic Forum, talking about Blockchain technology. What’s the potential around Blockchain and this this distributed in centralized values that we’re talking about? Well, it’ll block pain is a great new power model. So it’s It’s a distributed leisure, right? So the nature of it is not too centralized to not be leader driven to not to be talked down but actually to rely upon the wisdom of the crowd to develop trust in transactions. So I think, on paper, hugely promising. Here’s my note of caution. The hype around the block chain reminds me of the hype around the web of the beginning, right. It will be amazing. It will all be descended. Flies will be distributing power. It will bring down all these governments. Everything will be the same again. And actually, of course, what ends up happening. And Tim Berners Lee predicted this early on. Actually, what ends up happening is on this utopia. We build these platforms on top of it, which actually intermediate a lot of the platform. So for all the hope and hype around blocked kayman, I think both are legitimate. I think we should also strike a note of caution that we’ve heard this record before and on paper, of course. You know, I always think Blockchain is kind of incorruptible in the same way the Titanic was unsinkable, right? I think they’re probably, sir. There are probably some dangers ahead, but But Net Net. I think I’m very hopeful. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software quote. Kruckel Mountain software is simple to use, and the support is phenomenal. With a program like QuickBooks, you don’t have support. If you don’t have support, it’s worth nothing. End quote. Says Christine Christenson. She’s the owner of Broomfield St Sheet Metal, not street metal sheet metal. Okay, not a non-profit, but she has a lot of experience with Cougar Mountain, so you can learn from her. They have a free 60 day trial. Cougar Mountain does not Broomfield, and the way to find that is the listener landing page tony dot m a slash cougar Mountain free 60 day trial. Now time for Tony. Take two. My dad and I have very close names for formal stuff. Signing up for things that center. I use Anthony So Anthony martignetti. My dad is Anthony J. Martignetti. We are both members of Consumer Reports, and when I moved, consume reports in their zeal to be proactive and not lose touch with a long standing member. He’s a longer standing member than me, Um, conflated us and through some sort of address search, they thought Anthony J. Which is my dad, was the one who moved to North Carolina. So I started getting Anthony J. Martignetti mail at my North Carolina address. Meanwhile, Anthony J. Martignetti is still living in New Jersey. He hasn’t moved, so they they had a good intention. But they screwed it up. And I’ve told them it’s been four or five times now that I’ve written to them and e mailed them, and they haven’t straightened it out yet. So I’m hoping maybe this will get them to figure it out. Well, I’ve already figured out for them to correct the mistake that they made, and I go into a little more, uh, snarky detail on the video so you can check out the video. It is bad data at Consumer Reports, or I might call it a Consumer reports. You’ve got bad data, but you’ll find it. It won’t be difficult. And that, of course, is that tony martignetti dot com and that is Tony’s Take Two. Now Back to New Power with Henry Timms. Henry Timms is with us, and we’re talking about his new book, New Power. You Need You Just Get the Damn Book because you know we can’t cover in an hour. It’s just that simple. The book is at this is new power dot com. Henry is at Henry Timms T. I. M. M s, um, book publishing. That’s very old power. 80. How come you didn’t self self publisher do something less traditional? I think it’s very, very fair question there. So in a way, the irony of the the work we’ve done on new powers. It began in Harvard Business Review and they published by Penguin. Random House. So I think it fair to say we know the irony in this. Here’s my Here’s my defense, which, which is to say this, that actually our book never says old power, Bad new power. Good. In fact, if you think about the arc of how we spread some of these ideas, the kind of expertise at Harvard Business Review, these ideas would never got. I got into the mainstream in the way that they did without the old power of HBR. They They have a very high bar publication. They have an extraordinarily powerful brand that really is top down, right? They create this magazine, they put it into the world, they decide what should be in it, and that’s a lots of people try and get in it, and some of them get often get frustrated by not be able to do that. And so what launched the idea of the book was there was we had this very strategically. We thought, Okay, we want these ideas out there in the world. We want something like HBR to give them that kind of a credibility and kind of put them in the in the minds of the right influences. But what then have wants? The ideas were out there in the world. The reason we wrote the book was their new power kicked in. So what happened with the book with the HBR piece was it was out there in the world. We had such an amazing response from people around the world who radiates be our peace and then started to make it more interesting. So I’ll give you an example. In the UK, they’re a group of health workers, nurses, midwives, health professionals who read the HBR peace and found it was very relevant to the health world. So there’s almost no world more old power than health, right? So you have these doctors and hospitals 10 year from what they should do and lorts people not feeling much agency. And they create a whole curriculum around new power, building on the ideas, making them or interesting making a more relevant to the health sector, which they then used to actually do. Bunch of training all around the world now training frontline health workers in terms of how they think about their own power where it goes in the world. So it’s all things like that. And then we saw things like there was a spy agency here in the U. S. Who reframe their strategy around new power and how they need to think about even a spy agency is old powers. It gets how they recognize they have to enter the new power world so that the book began because we saw this new power reaction to the old power of the HBR peace and all these all these kind enthusiasm spreading up around the world around the book on, we engage that community to as we wrote the book itself. So we brought that community back into the process is we put the book together and again. I think when we wanted to publish the book, we definitely wanted to do it in a way we wanted Toa publish it through someone who would send a lot of signals to the right people that would have the right amount of old power around the book, but also has the right amount of new power around the book, too. So what’s been very interesting with the The book is now It’s out in the world were back in the same place we were in after the HBR pieces. Our time is now much more fostering the new power community around the book, hearing all those people who are working on it around the world and most importantly of all, seeing people build on the thinking. So the high points of us so far with the book out there in the world is when people have grabbed it and made it more interesting. They’re taking ideas and said, Well, here’s how we could take this into our world. They’ve written about new power. They’ve made videos about new power. There was 11 guy who took some of the charts we had done in the book and made much better versions. So it becomes the work itself, becomes attractive. People grab it and take it somewhere new. And that’s where new power kicks in and in publishing more generally, just for what it’s worth, Look at the growth of fan fiction, just as one example of how much is being published now. And if you think about writing in general, here’s an optimistic note hit for new power. We’ve never had more writers in the world than we do right now. There are more people writing and sharing their words. When I was growing up, if you wanted to be a writer, think about, you know, I just turned 40 when I was growing up. You wanna be a writer, you maybe get something in the local newspaper. That was possible, but it was quite a high bar, right? You could get something photocopied by someone at school and given to everyone you know. But actually those were your means of communication that is as much as you could genuinely be a writer unless you got some kind of freak publishing deal and you were one of a handful. But most people had no root for participation thing. Now, about everyone in their lives and the audience is they have the connections, the opportunities they have. We have this become really interesting story of our time is we’ve never had more available human capital than we do right now. People wanting to create things, build things, learn things, mobilize around things, organized events. So the question then becomes who is gonna organize them, where, where they’re gonna end up going. And if those on the side of the angels don’t get good a new power, then all that human agency is actually gonna end up in the hands of worse actors. I think that’s a really important idea behind the book. This isn’t a kind of hey, you should be authentic to win a business kind of a book. This is a book which saying Look, this is the stakes of our time, those those people are on. I would think of your listeners in this group, those people who are kind of fighting the good fight who are on the side of the Angels. If they’re still approaching the world in a kind of press release, you know my way or the highway approach, they’re not gonna be able to mobilize a generation of people who want to add their own stamp on. So that becomes the great challenge of our age. All right, let’s talk about some of the implications for non-profits. Start with leadership. There’s a whole chapter devoted to, you know, uh, what what the implications are for leaders on. I want to focus on leaders of non-profits. No, the creating the crowds. Um, just thinking I mean, you gave the ace challenge. You know what? What we what we what we asking our leaders to do? Well, that’s a really good question. I’ll give you a a somewhat provocative answer, Which is why I think we we are always in danger. Non-profits leaders non-profits that you let the show become about you. The non-profit actually become so defined by the kind of charismatic chief executive who takes up all the space and takes up all the agents like a book author, like someone who’s recently written a book. I don’t not like I’m non-profit. Yeah. Result has a hashtag like that. No, no, Like those. Okay. No, I I think one of the things we worked really hard on actually is the idea that you actually build. You build power inside institutions. So one thing we do a lot of night, Secretary wise, one of the measures we have each year is around adoption of good ideas, which is around. Do people in amongst our team feel their ideas are adoptable? Do they have a chance? If they have a good idea, is gonna be adopted. Or is it? No. We’ve seen significant double digit growth year after year. It in that. And that’s a big measure. I think about our leadership, which is I remember what it was like being an organization when I had ideas. Norman, listen, right. I remember thinking I had lots of good ideas and they weren’t getting on the agenda. And the chief executive wasn’t paying attention. And certainly I think about my own leadership. The measure I have internally is how do we make sure that we can as much as possible mean anyone? Any level feels like their ideas could be adopted and brought through on. A lot of that is about using the chief executive role. Where you have got more people, you’re more available, you’re more in the limelight. How much you can use that to actually encourage the agency and support of others has been a really important idea. I think for that, and I think the for what it’s worth the I’ve been very intentional around. The book has been a book has been a bit of a period for me. Off Maur. I’ve been Maurine the limelight with the book because my book, but we wanna get the ideas out there in the world. But actually previously to that, as I thought about my leadership with CEO, there’s actually been a bit of a disconnect between running the running the 92nd Street. Why we’re actually me being more well known is not useful. Actually, I think, too, the book where it has been a bit more useful. This has been an intentional period, but it had I not written the book, I think I wouldn’t have entered the public light in quite the way that I did, and I also suspect this is just a short term thing. The book that didn’t do the dynamics of the book are actually very different than running the institution. And I think over on the institution why I think we know this because we measure this on annual basis in quite a granular way. You know, I think we do have a real sense that we’re trying to make a lot more people feel like they can have ideas. And that’s also true of the movements we’ve built. So something like giving Tuesday like nobody knows 92nd Street. Why South giving Tuesday? I mean in the nonprofit world like a bunch of pompel? No, because it is that’s inside baseball. But you ask. Anyone who knows about giving Tuesday haven’t got a clue what our role is. What my role. Waas. We made that decision very intentionally, like e-giving shoes. He wasn’t a way that someone could get to know bonem. That wasn’t our goal. And that’s often how these things start up right. They have so one dynamic individual who build something and they get close to famous people. We just haven’t done that. E-giving Tuesday has been designed in a way that actually isn’t about us on the leadership of giving Tuesday. Certainly true of May. I could never do a day’s more work on giving Tuesday in my life, and it would keep going. And that’s a design principle, right? So this is very much about building movements and ideas that are bigger than ourselves. Did you have new power in mind as you were when you cofounded e-giving Tuesday? Yeah, that seven years, seven years ago. So the two things have fed each other. Actually, what’s been really interesting is the world we done the nice industry. Why building movements lighten like giving Tuesday like our Ben Franklin circles, like our women Empower Initiative, all of which have the same design principles they all have kind of fed the thinking. The world has spread the thinking and the thinking has fed the work. So there’s been a real back and forth in that dynamic over the last seven years, and it’s been terrific, like that’s the You know, I’m not a thought leader. That’s not like I you know, we’ve got $65 million budget. We’ve got 1800 employees, right? You know, I run a complicated institution. I love doing that But what was becoming clear is I was doing that work was there was a new way of thinking about the world, all of the thinking that ended up in the book from my side. All this already with Jeremy heimans, my collaborator. But from my side, that thinking was very much influenced by the things we had done it in the 90 second Street. Why, especially we have this Belfer Center for Innovation, which what was founded by a boardmember and is run by Ashley Karen, who has collaborated with me on a lot of these kinds of ideas, and that work has really been formative in terms of shaping some of thinking around the book. You’re gonna be on the show, I think, twice leading up to giving, too. Is that right? We’re trying to get more non-profits to participate in giving Tuesday, so I know she’s coming at least twice the two or three times you know, maybe assigning homework between the session to see how my had what was out first. Yes, Your Grace, that well, that’s yes, that’s the summer project. Um, so in terms of leadership, I mean, so is it Maur channeling and guidance. A CZ, you think rather than leading. I think there’s definitely a sense of so I think a lot about this sonny and my role there. There’s old power, leadership skills and new power leadership skills, right? So think about, you know, we have a bunch of people who are on the payroll on essentially most of that. You can lead a small power skills. You’re you know there are. You’re in charge. You can largely ask people what to do, and they’re going to do the things you ask them to do. And that’s how institutions work right there often have very powerful people. Top running movement is very different than that, because you haven’t got the same kind of power that you haven’t got power over a movement in the same way you do over an institution So e-giving Tuesday. We don’t none of those people on our payroll. They’re participating giving Tuesday because they think it’s a good idea or they’re benefiting from it or they won’t do something useful, and it’s actually a very different set of leadership skills. They’re becoming closer together now, But for a long time I remember thinking a lot about how different it is to run an institution and to lead a movement. How different those sets of skills are. Actually, one of the things that I read it ran up against that. Yeah, right. Well, lots of people do. It’s really this is no easy like, I think it was going to say what this is like. It’s no easy and it’s not binary. So this work doing this work, we’ve done lots of stuff. It hasn’t worked super well and like that’s inevitable. And now you have to keep trying things. That’s how it works. It’s never a case of all new power or a LL old power, but actually how you combine that blended chapter on blended power? There is Chapter nine on their power. So I think that’s right. And I think that is the right prescription for organizations, which I’m not saying to any of the non-profits out there. And it’s not true of us. Give up on your old power. You know, there are moments where export curation makes a huge difference. We have this amazing poetry, Siri’s of the Night, second Street Y and the people who run that just is incredible. First class minds who really know the work and know the field on DNA, the cannon. And they know what program and its delights. Audiences were never gonna stop doing that. But alongside that, we’re also gonna create projects like we did this core project called the words we live in, where we invite people all around the world for one week to share the words that they encountered on their daily journeys to the words you run into day after day after day, what they are and how they matter now that’s an old power and a new power way of thinking about poetry. Expert Curator is giving you the very best That was one colleague. Another colleague created this amazing program, this amazing movement, where encourage people everywhere to share their stories around what words meant to them. Artistically, they’re both valid. They’re just very different muscles. They’re very different skillsets on. I think the right prescription for organizations is Are you an organization who could do both of those things? Well, I think we’re the night sickness rewire trying to become the organization time for our last break turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories, get media attention on those stories and build support for your work. They’re into media relations, content, marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. You’ll find them at turn hyphen to DOT CEO. We’ve got butt loads more time for new power. We gotta do the live love, et cetera. Live. Listen, a lot of it’s going out. It’s going out. Ah, New York, New York. We got multiple New York, New York. We got Parsippany, New Jersey. Bethesda, Maryland. Listening. Tampa, Florida Live list their love to each of you. Let’s go abroad. Shanghai, China. Anyhow, I’m glad Shanghai’s back. Haven’t been here for a while. We have the UK Um, we have Korea. Annual haserot comes a ham. Nida. We have Thailand. Morocco. We have Ah, Bella to Dante, Brazil Live. Listen to love to Brazil that that’s the first time, I believe. And the podcast pleasantries. Thea, over 12,000. Pushing 13,000 listening on. You’re on your own device at your own time. Very new power, way of listening. You do it on your own. We’re working on the old power side. I’m, uh that was not lost on me. But you can consume it anytime you want. On whatever device you like. After I put it out. So podcast pleasantries to the podcast listeners and the affiliate affections. Those analog radios AM FM stations air out there. Those radios are going nowhere. Analog is not going to die. Don’t fear the new power world. I know that there will always be AM and FM listeners. You know it’s not new power. All power is not technology based. It’s not. It’s it’s different. It’s models and values. It’s not. It’s not based on a technology. There’s analog listeners, am and FM throughout the country, affections to our affiliate station listeners. Thank you for indulging that Henry Timms. No, I was fascinated. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Okay, because love has got to go out, you know, like, whatever format, the gratitude. But the attitude is always going. New powers come out in Brazil in August, so the Brazilian version has come out all this. So I’m very pleased to hear Brazil being well recognized. There. There? Yes. Look for it. Look for it in August. Okay. Um that was Belle Ita. Bilich. Terra Santa, I believe. Are you gonna be doing some appearances in Brazil. Yeah, we’re gonna do. We’re actually gonna do the book. The book is being published, and we’re gonna do the e-giving. Tuesday’s done very well in Brazil, so we’re doing their e-giving shoes. They launch at the same time. Get the book. This is new power dot com. Just get the book. Um Well, what way would you like to go for your listeners in small and midsize non-profits? A lot of CEO executive directors. A lot of fundraisers. Um what? Well, I tell you some things on my mind and maybe these Maybe this is helpful. Maybe this is not things I’m thinking. It’s helpful, but I don’t like to protect me. I don’t like to present my the I’ve been thinking a lot about intensity. I think a lot about the the importance of driving intense, intense to his organization. So one of things were very good at in the nonprofit world is, you know, powerful causes something that’s something we’re not as good at. All the time is is driving intensity in the people who are surrounding us. So people think very well of us. But actually they are prepared to go to the mat for us on one thing. I think if you think about the organizations and leaders who doing really well right now, they’re actually doing really well with intensity. They’re working out how to build that around their brands. So as a kind of if I were in a room of lots of CEOs and I was, you know, we were going around the room were asked to kind of think about what’s on our mind. One thing on my mind is how we both in our local and global community’s Biltmore intensity thing. That’s an important idea on something which I’m thinking about a lot. I think I’m thinking a lot about virtual reality augmented reality. You know what that’s gonna mean for non-profits? The opportunities we have in there, we just did a capital campaign. We’ve just gone public with our capital campaign. I mean, we did it. We did all of that in virtual reality. So rather than giving people like a brochure which said, you know, he is, this is this is that we gave them a V R headset where they could actually see the night secondary. Why transform in front of their eyes from what it is to what it could be. And we’re very new power idea e-giving people Morvern experience. You’re asking them to kind of engaged already participate, Maurin that and that was really very, very successful with it. It was amazing as a fundraising tool because people really felt like they were apart, something they could really kind of transform the vision. I think I think I think I think a lot about a r N v r and what that is gonna mean for our world. And then I think Thirdly, I’m thinking a lot about things that are the threatened thank you a lot about the the things that we might take him for granted for a long time that now feel under threat and how we can defend those. So you think about some of the work of the night Secretary, why we’ve been believing in things like, you know, importance of public understanding of science and civic activation and thoughtful dialogue about big questions. The wise been doing this for a century. But actually all of those things now feel less like a luxury goods and more like necessities. They feel less like they’re all these nice things to have a more like Well, there are. There is a genuine threat around the world to a set of enlightenment values that we’ve all foster fostered for a very long time. So I think the third thing I’m thinking about a lot right now is kind of what is the role of the nonprofit sector in reaffirming both kind of communitarian and enlightenment values buy-in thoughtful and collective ways. That’s that’s on my mind. That’s also year end. Let’s not Let’s not pretend I want again. The one thing One thing I would say to my colleagues in the field has been all of my time thinking about macro thoughts like a R V r. I do also realize the clock is ticking two year on June 30th. So we’re gonna be doing some work on that, too. The naysayers, if we’re gonna start to institute values and think about new values, is going to be pushed back. The book chronicles the, uh, the designer at 90 secretary. Why? Who was appalled that your logo wasn’t part of the giving Tuesday? Resource is, what do we How do we bring these naysayers? I mean that that’s what was one way of dealing with that. That’s an employee supposed to. Naysayers are on the board and you’re you’re tryingto get them to think in some broader new value kinds of ways. So I I I think we should be grateful for our naysayers, but I don’t think the job is to persuade them or to say yes. I think part of the job of I think there’s a certain type of nay say who just doesn’t like change and they’re just going to say no to anything new, but they don’t like it and like you should do you think those people are worth discounting in general and I just I haven’t got much time for that, but I think it’s a very small percentage of the market then the large percent is the market. People who were genuinely not sure this is a good idea or this is gonna work and them expressing their view in the face of particular with new ideas. People very enthusiastic about new ideas is really good to hear from people who don’t think that the ideas of right when we started giving Tuesday a lot of people thought well, wasn’t a very good idea, and they were the most valuable voices of all. I mean by far because the people who said Hey, this is so cool Let’s do it together That was super helpful with, like, building enthusiasm. It didn’t make it a better project. What made it better project was Remember, Jerry Hirsch has become a friend who who supported giving Tuesday Right back in the beginning, he runs the Lode Star Foundation. I remember he had me on the phone for an hour and 15 minutes. About all things I had wrong about giving Tuesday on I remember was anonymous, helpful conversations I’ve ever had because he genuinely likes new ideas. He just had a bunch of things he didn’t think we’ve got right on. Do you know he was right, actually, as it turned out, So I don’t think our job is to, I think, the extreme naysayers who were just doing a CZ life choice ignore them. Everyone else is an important data point for how you shape an idea or shaper movement. So I hope that we spend more time listening to them, and we’re certainly aboard level. We’ve had some terrific conversations between people who are who are unconvinced. We should be doing work all around the world who think we should be sticking to our local work. Should be focusing on 92nd elects. What business have we got launching? You know, e-giving campaigns with partners in Tanzania, right? It’s a very reasonable question, but but the nature of that dialogue, if it’s done right, you know it’s Zumba. We should be very proud off, right? There’s something thistles gonna get. Very highfalutin, but like there’s something kind of Talmudic Socratic about this, about people being prepared to have different views and to test those views and push them against each other. And if you do that in a decent and honorable in a trusting way, out of that friction, but I think becomes progress, so I hope that’s how I think about naysayers. I do get irritated with people who are kind of anti new ideas because I’m someone who’s very pro new ideas. So I do think there is a kind of default professional mindset, which is everything is wrong until you prove it’s right. I don’t think that’s actually very helpful, but I don’t think we should be too scathing of people who very reasonably roll their eyes once in a while. I’m very grateful for the people. I’ve had so many bad ideas. I mean, so many. And Andi, I’ve been so lucky to have people around me who said, That’s a terrible idea. I tease earlier, read it the story of how they how they, uh, mistreated because we were talking about volunteers. They they had moderators, pure volunteers. Um, we have a few minutes left. What would you tell that? Tell that Reddit story so ready He’s ready fastening its platform because a lot of the channels, all of the challenges, are run by moderators. So these volunteers who actually essentially, are the overseers of the various Reddit channels and so they can work out what’s being said. They can flag things, they could change thing. They can set some of the rules and they consent. She shot the challenge down, so read it had a moment in their community where there was a big kind of ah flashpoint around their CEO, Ellen Pao on her leadership and then her eventual firing, and the whole thing was, was trip was handled pretty badly and then a number of their moderators, the most beloved kind of community managers disappeared. And what happened? Waas The community off moderators turned against the platform, so they actually started shutting. Read it down so that people who were in charge of all these challenge started shutting all the channels down to send the message to ready about the power they have over the platform. And that’s that’s an interesting dynamic. And you’ve seen that play out since that happened with Reddit, you’ve seen campaigns like the Delete uber campaign come along when people are really making meaningful. Essentially, these are platform protests. That’s how to think about them. And so those things are beginning to happen more and more often as people realize that our collective power over some of these platforms is not insignificant. Interesting to the recent Facebook shareholder meeting, there was a big pushback from ordinary average shareholders against the platform itself. So I think one thing you’ll see a lot more off in the months and years ahead as you’ll see much Maur articulate platform protests off groups, off users banding together say Look, I actually expect a B and C from my interaction with with platform. You know, whatever plaque for happens to be read. It learned that lesson. And actually, you know, I think they did learn some lessons from that moment on dhe, their model. It is particularly vulnerable to that because they’ve handed up. So they’ve handed over so much power to their moderators. But also, that’s why they supercharge their platform. What? What Reddit has done so well is they’ve got, um They were all these people around the world who were deeply invested in their work and very responsible for their work. People who oversee the channels that read it, they feel as much connection to their audience is you do to your podcast. I am connected to this podcast. Thank you, Henry Timms. We gotta leave it there. Get the book. For Pete’s sake, just get the book about new power. You’ll find it at this is new power dot com. Follow Henry Timms. He’s at Henry Timms. Thank you so much next week. Peer-to-peer fund-raising and poverty Porn. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Wagner. CPS guiding you beyond the numbers Wagner cps dot com By koegler Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non-profits? They’re at tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for that free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Our creative producers Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking Alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings. Conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern Time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential Live Life Your way on talk radio dot N Y C. I’m the aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media, my guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Friday’s 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Are you a conscious co creator? 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Adam London, Carrie Rice & Anneliese Davis:Online Major Giving Do you have web forms for your major donors? Our 19NTC panel hashes the pros and cons of automating major giving and—if you decide to expand to online—how to work around the obstacles. They’re Adam London at Project Donor Love; Carrie Rice from Carrie Rice Consulting; and Anneliese Davis with Rahab’s Sisters.
Burt Edwards: Online Adversity How do you maintain personal and organizational values when people are screaming at you in the social networks? Burt Edwards, our panel of one from 19NTC, shares strategies and systems that keep your staff, supporters and social ambassadors safe when they speak out online. He’s from Friends of the Columbia Gorge.
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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of Psycho in Drusus if you hard into me with the idea that you missed today’s show online. Major e-giving. Do you have Web forms for your major donors? Are 19 ntcdinosaur. Hash is the pros and cons of automating major e-giving. And if you decide to expand toe online, how to work around the obstacles there? Adam London at Project Donors of Carry Rice From Carrie Rice Consulting and Annalise Ed Davis with Ray ABS Sisters and online Adversity How do you maintain personal and organizational values when people are screaming at you in the social networks? Bert Edwards, Our panel of one from 19 NTC shares strategies and systems that keep your staff supporters and social ambassador’s safe when they speak out online. He’s from Friends of the Columbia Gorge on Tony’s take to your board’s role in planned e-giving responsive by Wagner CPS Guiding you beyond the numbers wagner cps dot com By koegler Mountain Software Denali fundez. They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Here’s online Major e-giving Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC. You know what that is? It’s a 2019 non-profit technology conference. You know that we’re coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon, and at all of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. What you don’t know is that my panel now is seated with me. And they are Adam London carry Rice and Anna Lisa Davis. Adam is founder of Project Donors of Carrie is non-profit consultant carry Rice consulting and Anna Lisa Davis is the executive director at Rehabs Sisters. Welcome altum each of you. Thank you, Tony. Thanks. Thanks for joining us. Your session topic was 21st century major e-giving creating an effective online major gift program. I thought this was interesting. I don’t I don’t see much about online major e-giving program. So that’s what caught my attention to this. Why I invited you to come. I like to start down The end is the person down? The end sometimes feels at least at least part of this, although they’re not. But sometimes they feel so we’re gonna start with Lisa. Um What? What? What are the possibilities? Just like headline over a big, big picture. What are the possibilities here online, Major e-giving. Well, we’re a very small organization that didn’t really start doing fund-raising in an intentional way until I came on board is the first staff member a year and 1/2 ago. And so, working with carry on, Adam, they’ve helped us think creatively about how we engage people online without having a huge development staff or a lot of board members who could go out and talk to Major Gibbs. Okay, So you moved it online or you didn’t move it online. You started it online. We started a major give program is native online. It is okay. And you work with Carrie? I did. Yeah, we did. We do. Absolutely. She did a wonderful board treat for us last year, and then it grew into this project. No surprise, Carrie, uh is this a trend that I’m not aware of. Are you seeing Maur? We arika program. We’re starting. We’re starting the trend. Yes, we It was more like an area where we saw the But there was a hole out there, which was that there are people who, for example, in an in person ask if you let’s say you’ve done all the research, you’re ready to make the ask for 25 $6100 whatever it is that if you then get a pledge from them, you have to go home, get in envoys, right attack, get a return envelope and so forth and do all these things to make the donation. Whereas in this way someone says, Yeah, that’s it. $100,000 sounds great. And you say, Well, if you want, you can fill out this form right now and get your frequent flyer miles right now on your black card, you know, and boom, it’s done. So that was something that people started saying, like, That’s a really good idea on Ben also being able to directly using direct mail or using email to be able to contact people who are major donors in Anna Lisa’s case, they’re just now figuring out what a major donor is and what their capacity is, but figuring out what that number is and then being able to direct people to a different form. It’s not a poor form and a rich form, it’s just an unlisted folk. Are you directly? Yeah. We’ll get to the details. Okay. Adam. What? What? What’s? Ah, Product dahna loves rolling This You have online Major e-giving Also Sure. So project dahna Love is an agency in San Francisco. We design and build custom websites on reporting a Pardon me. Oh, you’re okay. You’re not a non-profit. I’m not a non-profit. Okay? Project dahna love sounds like Okay, Okay. I’m sorry I interrupted you expect so? Yes. We built we design and build custom websites and reporting tools for non-profits. We have a particular interest in donation forms in optimizing and customizing donation forms to make them to get maximum conversions out of them. And we also interested in bringing in modern U ex practices and also leveraging the organization’s data to really improve their fund-raising online. Okay. Okay. Um, so what’s the, uh Well, I guess including for rehab sisters this is This is the beginning of your major gift program. You’ve just been doing fund-raising, you said, for a year and 1/2 for him for amore mature organization that’s got a well established major gift program. And let’s say you know our listeners, Aaron Small, a midsize shop. So let’s say they define a major gift as $10,000. Okay, And of course, they have giving $1000 level. There’s a society for that, etcetera. But they define for their fund-raising major gifts $10,000. Carrie. What would what would be the advantage to looking at an online major gift program for them? What would that look like? Well, the first thing is, we have very passionate and strong views about recurring gifts. So if you were someone who considered yourself prepared to give $10,000 is a one time gift, there’s a pretty good chance that you’re willing to give $1000 a month. So I just raised your gift 20% and now you can split it up into $1000 a month, which fits into your monthly budget. So it’s kind of ah, different way of thinking, but it’s just right right there off the top. By encouraging the recurring gifts on the major for on the form it gives people the opportunity to actually give us give someone a little more. So what’s new then, is that we’re offering someone the opportunity. Thio make a $10,000 gift online. And then I understand we’re trying to convert them to Stainer, but we’re we’re offering higher levels of giving online. That’s crap. In the exhibition, which case over 5000 you’d have to send a check or transfer stock. Exactly. Exactly. And in the case of an organization like rehab sisters, they use a fairly small, less robust donation platform. And so we kind of had to pick. Are we going to encourage one time gifts or we gonna encourage recurring gifts? And so, in this particular case, we chose Onley monthly gifts and to make it on Lee a major gift sustainers level period because that was the best thing to do with the software that was available in this situation. And Elisa, What kind of outcomes are you seeing? What kind of interest are you? Feedback getting any feedback from donors? Well, we’ve just started rolling it out with our supporters. We have been Typically, we’ve had very low, you know, like a $15.20 dollar a month sustainers kind of program on. And now we’re being able to go out and ask folks for us, Would you do $100 a month? We could just click right here and get you signed up. And people like the convenience of being able to do it right then and there. Um, and it just it kind of speed the process along because again, being a one person shop for everything I am, the less follow-up I have two. D’oh! After that particular meeting, the better, much, much better. It’s time for a break. Regular C P A. Is they have a new wagon are on September 10th. Leaders Guide to Understanding, not for profit financials, CEOs, board members, directors You don’t need accounting details that’s not necessary for you, but a realistic and basic understanding of financial statements will boost your decision making. You’ll find it at weinger cps dot com. Quick resource is and upcoming events Now back to online major giving. Adam What? What is your advice around streamlining this process that we’re talking about. Carrie was talking about trying to get recurring gifts. That’s definitely part of it. But the biggest thing probably is segmentation, actually, with all fund-raising segmentation critical, but particularly when we’re talking about major gifts online. Firstly, we want the major gift for more forms to be something that is hidden from the main navigation. So this is something that you are only directing your major givers to via email or doing it in person or by direct mail. Okay, And then what is that? Well, because the first reason is that there’s no very graceful way to have a donation landing page that says, You know, big money Year little money here, Onda. Also, if you have a single donation form that has both very large suggested mounts in the thousands of dollars on more typical 29 2150 that’s a confusing situation for anyone who lands. There is a small donor. Those large amounts might make you think, Well, that’s my $50 gift. Even worth it if they’re asking for $5000 okay. And if you’re at the high end right, you’re feeling like, why am I? Why am I on the same page is the $25 Don’t exactly. Yes. Do they really need this? 5000 different? There are $25. So putting them, making sure that these two populations get into donation forms that are targeted at the amount you expect them to make you see. And then you can also have multiple donation forms. There’s another great aspect off doing this online because if you’re able to segment your don’t know major donors more finally into high high level donors, high mid owners, et cetera, then you can have separate donation forms for each of these segments or separate donation forms for campaign or things like that. Okay, okay, um, from your session description, you you talked about using Is it events? As an in person asked Carry, you were describing? The person asked earlier. What about that events? How does that look? Like so at an event? So let’s say you’re having a reasonably priced, for example, like a gala or something, that 100 t it’s $10 a ticket, Um, and then you have ipads set up around the room and, oh, are you have interns or assistants who are able to go around from table to table and say, You know, instead of filling out this pledge envelope like you’ve seen those pledge envelopes in the middle of the table, please take a pledge of open fill it out. But if someone came up to you and said they’ve got a tablet in here you go. I’m gonna hand it to you right now. And I’m not going to show you the $15 to $75.1. I’m going to show you the Esso We’re going around to the tables. The tables are saying What Anyone What exactly What is that look like? You’re saying what? I would like to make a gift tonight, Right? Exactly. Exactly. And then just say I have a really easy way. And then I like to be somewhat playful for it and say, you know, you could have your frequent flyer miles by tomorrow. Yeah, You know, just just being able to say, like, just do this right here, right now and boom, you’ll get an instant Thank you. That has a photograph and an impact statement. And then I know for rehab sisters, they send ah, hand written, personalized Thank you Card. A little bit later in the future, but they get that instant gratification. All right, So, Annalise, that you’ve done this at events or an event? Not yet. That’s good. Sign. Coming. Coming. Coming up. Okay, okay. They’re just really good at thinking people. I just know that from personal. All right, so then you just So then the person with the was working for the organization, Just asked, how much would you like to donate? Right. So they’re going to show them a major donor level. So again, like, let’s say it’s $200 a person, and so you’ve got on the sheet on the form, you know, 500 a 1025 105,000 and fill in the amount you want. And then they look at that and they can say, What can I give $100? Yes. Can I give a million dollars? Yes, but we’re we’re prepping them. Were prompting them to be thinking OK paid $200 to come here, and I was planning on giving something anyway. And this is like this super super simple way to do it. All right, So if it is ah, $200 a ticket gala. Where would you start the ask string? What would your advice speak? Ah, well, I would say get them drinking. First way to talk about the time I just wear hearing that. Yeah. So 20 and physically, You know, on the donation form, what would you start the ask string with the with the numbers be mount. What amount would you start? No, that’s particularly gonna depend on the whole matter. Ask. Yeah, it is okay. Making me feel like I don’t know what I know I’m feeling. I just I didn’t know. You thought I meant what? Where, like what time in the program. Okay. Yeah, really? You can’t generalize of its $200 ticket. Would you start the ask string up to 50 or 505 100 or something like that? Yeah. Um I mean, we are still in the early stages. We’ve just It’s only been less than a year that we’ve been doing this so we don’t have a huge number to look at me. Oh, yeah. We think it really depends on the organization. And we want to work with the executive director, the development director, maybe even the board to get an idea of what feels like they’re normal. Okay. You want to look at the donation history of the organization to see what kind of major gives that? Got what? The average major can build the US base it more visible on a e-giving history of the organization, like medium givers. Then the ticket price. Okay, Okay. I take the simple minded approach. See, my fund-raising is all the consulting out. It was all planned e-giving So we’re not talking about these events, you know? We’re not gonna sign your way. Have an attorney in the corner preparing wills or way Do it through legalzoom if you want. You know you can, you know. So I’m not doing event based play e-giving fund-raising. Right? But on the major gift form, there could be a little box there that says I am interested for sure, Absolutely. But I’m you know, I’m not running fund-raising at events as planned giving, but I’m not saying Of course, I I’m the evangelist for plan giving with that without the religious overtones. I mean, I’m always put it on your envelope flaps. Put on your business cards. Put in your email signature included in your will ask how? Yes. Absolutely Another great point about these. I guess. I was just trying to justify myself minded suggestion of basing it on the ticket price. Okay, Go ahead. Adam. I’m sorry. Yeah. I wanted to say another great point about doing this online is that you can also integrate these online forms into a more traditional major gift. Ask situation. Living room. Explain that. Oh, yes. So you could make the couple has decided No point in waiting. Exactly. Like if you’re online form works well with mobile devices, which you definitely should do. Then you can bring a tablet to a meeting with major donor. Sure. And then when they’re ready to make the donation instead of writing the check or getting a promise to make a donation, you can actually have them get the credit card to make the donation, right? Would you like to do it right now? No pressure, exactly. But if you like, we could We could do it right now. And you can have your frequent flyer miles tomorrow. And I think that free and Elisa, that’s gonna end up being a good fit for your board members. For example, Yes, absolutely. Um and Adam, I was I was thinking about in my previous life before I did grassroots non-profits and I did a large asks from major donors up. I had one asks situation where the CEO insisted that after the person who made the $100,000 commitment, she had to get their credit card right then and the only thing I had in my purse was a valet ticket. And so we wrote her credit card for $100,000 gift with the back of a valet ticket. And so this approach altum sophisticated, sophisticated, secure, right, right. That’s an interesting policy, CEO Yu, That is not a little pressure for ah, gift officer. You you have to get the credit card. She was She was closer. She was all right. She is a bold woman. Thanks for your commitment. Let’s do it right now. I mean, I’m saying, let’s offer to do it right. Rather not use our tablet. You’re welcome to mail you a check or we never even pull out the tablet in the first place because you just know that that’s not the right person based on the conversation, even still in their eighties. And they’ve already told you three times that they never made a single purchase online. They’re certainly not gonna make their $50,000 gift. Exactly your tablet. Okay, of course. Okay, uh, we’re all learning here. I’m trainable. Treatable. Um, let’s see the event. That’s really interesting about the events. Um, you also talked about how to create the forms. Adam, any more advice on the you can share on the details of the form I love. Of course. I love the plant Giving checkoff. Sure. So thank you for that. As I said, segmentation is key to this. You want to have a separate home for the major gift form and then ideally have different major gift forms, different giving levels or different segments that you’ve identified within your major donors? You definitely, especially on a major gift for model. Give formers, Really? But these sort of things become more important as the money goes up. You want to form to look like the rest of your organization’s website. That’s a place where a lot of non-profit forms. Unfortunately, full down is you’ll find a great, well designed website, good information, easy to navigate and then you reach the donation form and it looks nothing like the rest of the site. It’s a default site. It’s a default donation form for whatever vendor they have for their online donation. For so finding an online donation form that you can make it look like your sight. We can get a CZ much control as you can. Over what information you’re asking. Four. So you’re not asking, you know, forcing people to enter the phone number, for example. Things like that. Yes. You want to control, You want it to look like a form. And you definitely wanted to work well on mobile devices. Yeah, we’re past the mobile mobile mobile optimization discussion. Oh, yes. We just know that everything everything, including your donation form and needs to be optimized for a tablet and phone. OK, we’re past that. Oh, yes. We still but we still have to bring it up. We start, we do have to bring it up. Unfortunately, yeah, we still dumpster full way still remind people that over 50% of peep people today are using mobile first, so it’s only gonna go up from here. It’s not going to go down. Okay? Okay, and at least I’m feeling bad about you over there. But you don’t. You don’t have a lot of experience just rolling this out. So, uh, what do you Anything you wanna say that is related to what, Uh, Adam and Carrie, You’re saying, uh, you want to contribute? I mean, just beyond. From what? We were just talking about it for a small shop, Something like this is a really handy tool toe, have. Like I said, you don’t have to worry about doing as much follow-up. And you’ve got something in your back pocket. You can pull up and you don’t have to use a valet ticket. So wrinkled valet ticket. It’s a good point is you don’t necessarily need to have a huge budget to get started with this. Very good. That’s implicit in what we’re saying. Yes, we identify rehabs as one employee. No, but thank you for making one and 1/2 now, right? Oh, no. Technically, we’re both part times 11 tone. Oh, yeah. All right. So But thank you for making explicit Adam. Absolutely right. This is ideal for small shops, right? There’s a lot of online donation tools that do have reasonable donation forms that you can work with to integrate NTS site, make it look reasonably like inside and then use those to get started with. Of course, you know, spending more money lets you have more flexibility in terms of what the form is ensuring into personalization for each individual, which could be very powerful. And what Adam was saying earlier about where you send people online because our support has typically come from volunteers who give very small amounts transition we’ve gone through now where we’re going out into the community and getting much larger gifts. Volunteers. I’ve been really worried about how volunteers are gonna feel like, Is there $15 gift not valued anymore? That’s if they see all these hyre options. Statham’s point of having segmentation of dahna donation forms so that one caps out at 7500 right? Okay. In the ask string. Yes, I was I was implicitly It was implied that I didn’t know what I was talking about. Uh, obstacles. You have a little discussion about obstacles, challenges to this on how to overcome them. Carry well, having having had the opportunity to work with Anna Lisa and her board as it was going through a transition, and a new board was coming on where there were, in particular people who were coming on that had a lot of non-profit experience. We having the board’s support for something like this when it was very possible when we proposed this to Anna Lisa that her board could have said like, What do we need for with a major gift form? We’ve only been, you know, But she has an incredibly supportive board. And so, making sure that you have boards support and that they understand why you’re bothering to do this is a key component of it. It’s not just about the staff and the donors being happy, but it’s also about making sure that, well, that that everybody gets it and that the board supports it. What would you say it was? Your, uh, we’re putting you in hypothetical. Now you’re in a board meeting, and, uh, they’re saying exactly, that would mean online donations, for we have meetings. We have. We have We have two little bigger organization. We have, uh, we have two full time fundraisers. What we eat online donation form forward. Who’s this consultant who brought this consultant to this meeting, right? Exactly. Don’t go that far. Yeah, well, yeah. No e. Everybody is grateful for consultant. Why would anybody about a consultant, But just not to your face. What would you say to that room? Reluctant board. I would say this is the in the improv. The yes, and you know, this is Yeah. Everything you’re doing is great. We’re not telling you to do anything different. We’re just giving you an additional tool to use. And so if, for example, I were stewarding someone and things have been going really well and I’m ready to send them an email solicitation that I can put the hyperlink to the major gift form. Same thing with a direct mail piece. Same thing with a conversation, whatever. But I can. I can build that as being a norm for those donors, but it’s really up to the officer of how they’re going to use it again. Annalise doesn’t have the opportunity to have someone who’s going to be dedicated to using this, but she also she’s very sophisticated with her online users, so she’s gonna be ableto go in and change. The amounts are at another form or do those kinds of things on her own on Dhe. And then if she ends up with a development director and in the not too distant future, then that person can say, OK, wow, amazing. This organization already has this tool set up for me. I’m gonna see where it’s appropriate to use it to persuade the board that is just another tool and uses that at their discretion when the relationship is right or the boardmember right? Yeah, I also hear that it’s a future facing thing that this I think that online major fund-raising is going to be more and more standard as time goes on. I mean, where were based in San Francisco. There are plenty of young households with an income over 300,000 who don’t really use checks for anything. Yeah, so there’s plenty of people out there who are willing to make major gifts online for cash using cash either. But you’re right that as they mature, it’s gonna it’s just gonna that trend is just gonna continue. Yeah, I was with somebody, uh, they were nephew and niece, probably under 30 at the time, and we were coming back from a restaurant and they were locked out of their apartment. And the building owner sent the representative. But it was late, So there was a $50 service charge t open the lock, and neither one of them had the cash and they couldn’t, and they got into the apartment, you know, he did let them in and they couldn’t find their checkbook. I mean, I know exactly where my checkbook is, and I always carry cash. But neither one of them had either have to fry 50 bucks for the surface for the midnight service call to get them into their apartment, to not find cash or a cheque book inside that couldn’t find it dollars back? Uh, no, that’s still a point of contention. And as a result, I did not send a birthday gift this year. Um, don’t Don’t mess with me. I bailed him out. If it hadn’t been for me, the guy would not have let them in. What they have done, gone to an A t. M. Maybe they couldn’t find the debit card. They couldn’t find the checkbook for guns. And I know exactly where my checkbook in my top dresser drawer. Right, But um, you know, if you had a, uh, habit If that vendor if that the person that was sent out had the square, then they could take the person’s credit. Unsophisticated. That’s where things were going is that I want to be able Thio Just go on my phone and be like, 0 $50 to Tony, $50 Bhuvan, you know, And so why not take that to these other levels of? It’s just that’s how they’re used to doing things, you know, they go on Amazon and, you know, uh, Adam and I were interviewing someone. At one point he was talking about how she walks around her house with her phone, and when she notices that she needs something, she literally just goes on. Amazon places in order. And then later in the day, she’ll place another order like it’s just it’s her pendant. She just orders things one at a time. So why not make donating that easy to, you know, as close to an e commerce site as possible without being an e commerce site? Unless you’re like you, said one of the enterprise sized non-profits, who really can make this a robust program and as rehab sisters grows, you know, they’re looking at their own donor-centric management software and saying, Oh, well, this has certain limitations on it. As we grow, we can change products and find something that’s gonna allow the monthly gifts and the the onetime gifts in a way that works best. Yeah, All right, You know what? That’s Ah, perfect wrap. That’s a perfect conclusion. We’re gonna leave it. There they are. Adam London, founder of ah, Project Donor Love, which is not a non-profit sultan. See, Thank you. Carry Rice non-profits, Consultant also carry rice Consulting and Anna Lisa Davis, the executive director of Rehabs Sisters, thanks to each of you. Thank you so much. You’re welcome. And thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 NTC. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools help non-profits make an impact. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software Here’s a quote We use Denali Fund for non-profits. It’s easy to track how much is in each fund. That’s fairly simple to use and the training is very helpful and thorough. Customer service has been responsive and caring. That’s Laurie D. From a church and also a quote all the features of a sophisticated fund accounting system at a reasonable cost. That’s Kim T. From Lawrence Township, and this is all about Cougar Mountain software. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now, time for Tony. Stick to your board’s role in planned e-giving. Um, there is a video on this, of course, as there is, uh, there are all the all the critical subjects facing mankind. I’ve got a video on all of them and this the week it’s your boards, giving in your boards role in planned e-giving steps up at first. Um, first blush, let’s say, um, their own personal gif ts They need to be committed to the organization to the extent that they included include your organization in their will or some other state plan. And that’s reasonable to expect because they are your highest level volunteers. There you’re insiders there fiduciaries if legal duties to your organization and, um, their duties go beyond legal, including fund-raising support, and how can they ask others if they haven’t done it themselves, and that’s one of the other roles that they can fill. Once they have included you in their state plan, then they could be asking others their peers on the board, other volunteers, major donors. They could be encouraging other planned GIF ts from those folks hosting events, introducing you to other people. They could combine those that could host an event in their home and invite some of their friends to find out about more about your organization. There’s a lot that you’re bored can do around planned e-giving, and you find me, uh, saying more about it, flushing it out on my video, your boards rolling. Planned e-giving and that’s at tony martignetti dot com. That is Tony’s Take two now online adversity. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC. You know that’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference in Portland, Oregon, at the Convention Center on day three of the Conference three like gum in puberty and all of our 1990 see interviews are brought to you by our partners. That act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact with me is Bert Edwards, He’s communications director at Friends of the Columbia Gorge. Burt, Welcome. Thanks. Tony is great to be here. It’s good to have you back. Thank you. We think it was We think it was about three years ago. It ntcdinosaur? Yeah. San Jose Sense sense in San Antonio was sent. No sandals. I’ve got my hands. Okay. Okay. It was That was either 15 or 16. We’re not sure. All right. It’s good to have you back. Uh, you’re session this year is Social Security combating fake news, triaging twitter, trolls and dealing with digital distractions. A lot of injuries. I start out. Why do we need this session? I don’t think we need to think. Well, well, I’ll give you well, Put it this way. What do you feel like? Non-profits. Need to know that they don’t about managing trolls and digital distractions. Well, there’s actually a interesting background history for how this panel came to be. And so this panel was one of a couple panels that the end tem team had picked out as a community session as far as a topic that they wanted Thio speak about, uh and so I ended up getting in contact with Amy and ash and, uh, worked with them to kind of put together the concept. They actually connected me with my first panelist, Ken Montenegro, whose on the End 10 board and then can we were kind of fine time for include tuning, so to speak, the topic because we really want to make a discussion. He suggested that we reach out to actually the keynote speaker idiot who was able to join us. So it really kind of came together as, ah, community topic. And it’s something, sadly, that all non-profits they’re dealing with these days we’re gonna talk about how to keep your staff, your supporters and social ambassador’s safe. When they’re talking about your organization online, where they’re putting themselves out as the face of the organization, how do they stay safe? Um, and then you had a group exercise to What was that? So basically, instead of eso when Kenan mediating and I were chatting instead of ah, doing power point, we decided we really want to have a discussion with the audience. And as we don’t have ah, we wish we did have a magic box that we could give her everyone to deal with trolls and digital distracters these days, we thought instead, we share some lessons that we’ve learned and then have a discussion for people to share other things and have a conversation. Um, so that overall was the challenge. So the first exercise we did was I actually walked through an example, something that happened to me, which was a case of every day you come into work on one of my colleagues came to us with our social listening report, and all of a sudden someone was tweeting at us and accusing us of stealing a photo online. They hadn’t e mailed to reach out that we had bought the photo inappropriately off him. They were just calling us and our CEO of photo geever. And they started then tagging media out, saying that this organization and this person stole our photo. Um, and that and so actually I talked a little bit about the situation I then asked. We then had a discussion with members are argast as far as how they would have handled. It was interesting. I got some suggestions for what we ended up from, actually, some things that we didn’t end up doing, but it would be interesting to try. Well, that’s all flush out a little bit. So what? Well, first, what did you do? What did you do? We? Well, what we did was after we looked into it. What it turns out is that the photo we had bought was from 1/3 party photo vendor. The photographer at some point had had a falling out with, and I don’t remember the outlet, and I won’t. I won’t use their name. Sure. At some point, she had had a falling out with that group. She had taken her photos down. And so all of the organization, because there was a number of non-profits. Our non-profit had bought that photo to do some work on Syria, and they were the number non-profits had bought that photo. She either did a similar thing as far as kind of threatening them on Twitter. Or she’s kind of set, like, kind of a legalistic sort of Ah, season desist. Yeah, yeah. Um So we tried to find a way to actually engage the person in a conversation that we didn’t have a contact information. We sent them a GM. They did not respond. So at that point, I came up with two plans. One was We decide to go ahead and take the photos down, because when we take photos, even though we had about the photos legally, But we take that very seriously, Andi, that we couldn’t engage with the dialogue with the person that was that was the least passive resistance. And as the alternative, what I had prepared to do was to engage her on my personal Twitter account so I could deal it, escalate the situation as far as it wasn’t our institutional social media accounts and her and said it would be metoo communications director talking thio this unhappy for did she end up engaging with you as an individual? Well, actually, when we took the photos down, she thank the New York Times. Although the New York Times didn’t contact us about stealing on her photos, Um, and then she stopped. So I didn’t have to face-to-face D’oh! Okay, Okay. What were some of the suggestions you got in the session? How to deal with it? You know, we got a really interesting suggestion that I didn’t think of it, and someone suggested that we should have taken a photo of the receipt that we had and put a note on Twitter saying, Hey, we’re sorry that you’re concerned we actually bought this legally. Here’s the receipt and that’s interesting approach might have been kind of antagonistic. A cz um, her tweets were fairly hostile, so it might have worked. Come. It’s hard to say whether that would have egged her on the other challenges. It was consuming a lot of our time, okay? And that was one thing that we had were after is an issue. Even if you’re in the right, it may just be easier to fold. It’s not. It’s not that big a deal. Maybe it’s not worth fighting a battle over. Exactly. And that was one of things that we talked about at at the session is when do you make that make make that judgment call? Because I mean, like, for me, it’s like I really want to protect my staff of my colleagues, Um and so being accused of wrongly steal a photo for me, I took very seriously and also photo rights. I mean, I also take really seriously, but in this case it was consuming a lot of bad with knowing me. But the personnel manager social media accounts. And that was something again. We discussed this faras while you might want to fight, it distracts you from your mission. And so, in this case, making making the situation go away so we could get back to our work. I wonder if it’s worth saying Thio tweeting that, uh, wait, We’re out of respect for the photographer. We’re taking the question of question about photograph down. But we want our supporters. We want you to know that we did legally buy it. I don’t know if at that point you would put a photo of the receipt, the invoice paid invoice, whatever, or just say we have a paid invoice. But in the interest of fairness and whatever, you know, we’re just gonna We’re just gonna fold it. We’re just gonna take the photo down. But we want you all to know that the accusation is not right. I like that approach because it’s very transparent for your other users who might be on wondering about what aboutthe presumption is. If they take it down, then they’re in the wrong right? So you’re saying No, that’s not the case. We’re willing to take it down out of just simplicity and fairness. But we’re not. We’re not in the wrong here. Exactly. Another thing about your approach is that I, like is also is a chance for us organization to restate your values, which is a photography rights is really important. Electoral property is a treasure exactly and way don’t violate that way. Have a receipt if anyone wants to see it. Well, you know, the mos or something like that. We have an invoice. Okay. Eventually, I said we could learn. We learn from the crowd. Of course. Um what else? What else? Uh, what other types of situations did you talk about? Our might non-profits encounter? You know, one thing that came up that was interesting. This is hard for me. It’s a communications director, but one of my co panelists brought up the point that, you know, sometimes you might need to push back on your communication staff or have a dialogue about Why are we Why do we want to broadcast this information as sometimes? Maybe there’s a reason that point information out and and sometimes not. And she was talking about. So here’s an example. When she was when she was talking. It made me think back from from the past. So when I was working at the US Institute of Peace, I remember we were meeting with our colleagues in the religion in Peacemaking Initiative, and they were doing some really great work on D. U S Institute. He’s being a taxpayer funded in front organization, and it was really important for the public know what they’re doing with the taxpayer dollars. And so we’re trying to come up with ways to put out more information about what what the religion priest make initiative was doing the challenges. A lot of the facilitation is that they were doing overseas the people in the participants who would come those inter religious sorts of conversations. Often they would come at their own personal risk. And so we were chatting with our colleagues in one of our colleagues, said, I understand, and I agree. We need to talk more about the work that we do. But if we accidentally, for instance, talk about put the participants of a recent workshop that they had had in Nigeria, those participants and even parts of their family’s lives could be at risk, and the outreach value, you just isn’t worth it. And so that was actually a good conversation that we had with the program stuff. I mean, we were able to come up with a middle ground on one of those being that we would have a conversation and some things that they did. We’re just too sensitive. And even though it would be great to talk about them, we just wouldn’t know the risk that we made a mistake. And then someone got hurt because he never want that to happen. And so that was one thing that came up. And I thought that was a good conversation as Faras again engaging your communications and outreach people to think about what you’re putting out and why, and if you really need to put it out there or not, how about from the audience? Did, uh, did, um, challenges arise or situations arise from the audience that you remember that you can share? Yeah, there was an interesting question that came up. Um, I’ve encountered this a little bit as well, and it was a challenge about when you’re working in a coalition or with partners with other non-profits, and it’s a sensitive issue and or you may have information about services or constituents that’s sensitive. How do you deal with that? Particular Because Or Tasers have different levels of mean. Non-profit will be vastly different size and resource is on. They might have different approaches. Thio. How they deal with with privacy and or And that was that was interesting conversation that one member of the audience raised because it was something they were dealing with, and they just kind of want to talk through it. And so that was nice for that person. Will that kind of talk about what they were going through? Not only the panelist, but other folks and nines were able to offer some thoughts and suggestions. So where did you hear What are some of the suggestions? Well, actually, that I want listeners toe learn from learn from what you learned. Well, actually, it was interesting. That was partly where this where we went into discussion about thinking about what information you need to put out. Uh, there were several suggestions that members the lions had, as faras secure systems that you can use Thio thio trade information as far as if it’s sensitive, not necessarily using the normally mall or even, for instance, Google docks are very popular within the non-profit community. But that type of information is probably bad for a Google doc, because it’s really hard. I don’t know exactly who has access to a Google doc s o. We talked about some obscure ways, Thio to trade information, which and share information which I thought were useless. Um, and some services people actually exchanged business cards so they could give information to each other. Um, offline. So why do you say that about Google docks? It’s it’s hard to know who who has access to it. What’s the concern there? I think the challenge with Google docks and we use that a lot is I mean, once the link is out, I mean often is in a way, I was gonna share. You don’t know who’s okay. Yeah. Okay. So just making sure that your partners are having the same sort of care for the sensitivity and protection of your data that you are a time for our last break Turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories get media attention on those stories and build support for your mission. They’re into media relations, content, marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. You’ll find them at turn hyphen to dot C E o. We’ve got butt loads. More time for online adversity. We still have a good amount of time together. Burghdoff. So what else? Uh, what? Uh, I’m hoping there are other situations and how they got resolved or what the discussion points were around them. That people suggestions that people had another. You got another situation? Yeah. Um, so one situation that was that was discussed. Waas Ah, there was a participant that noted that they had a challenge with having their social media feeds actually being mined and that information being used against them. So they went they actually had folks that looked at their personal Facebook and Twitter accounts on dhe, then use the information to insinuate themselves into their circles and actually did some things that were disrupted in regards Thio. They would have people sometimes show up at events that they found out their social media. Um and, um, that would reach out to people to be other people. Yeah, these imposters was that it was not asking the name of the organization, but was at a high profile organization that did some kind of provocative, controversial work that that they’re their individual members of the staff would be stalked like that. So the person in that case was working on a pretty controversial issue. Um, that was in the news. So I won’t I won’t say which justifies the action, but I’m trying to figure out what the motivation is. Just embarrassment trying embarrass somebody who stands for something that the stalker disagrees with. Cancerversary. Okay, They really were looking to disrupt the work that that person was doing on Ben and the tire network. And frankly, frankly, that throw them off. So but it was really on the ground. Everybody organizing work. So, um, which which made that even more challenging, Cause I mean, you’re out in the field, and all of a sudden you have this disruption of Yeah, Who is this person? So what the organization do, or what was the conversation around it? Well, that was interesting, because one of things that that person had taken away from the experiences eso es. They’re more careful about, um about what they put out on social media. So, for instance, I mean, personally, personally, right? So the consciousness that raised their much more careful what they personally put out on social media, they’re much more careful now in regards Thio, if they’re working on a, uh, organizing or Abssi activity overseas, as far as even just noting that they’re gonna be over there just even a casual, you know him at this diner, that sort of a photo that that sort of checking to make sure, for instance, gee, attacking is off when they’re taking that when they’re taking photos. Um, so it really changed the weather. That person kind of relates to social media, and that was someone who had really grown up, as far as you know, being an active social media users. Faras I come here with my friends and we’re having this. We’re hanging out here, we’re going to be there. I mean, that really changed the way that they they interacted. Just gonna walk in through that. Well, it doesn’t have to be circumspect about their own Facebook and Instagram posts. Tweets you had a part of the session was strategies for keeping your staff your volunteers safe. So maybe think of Ji attacking, having them in their personal posts turn Geo tagging off. What else? What other strategies you got for keeping us all safe? You know, one thing that we talked about and we did a little better serve a cause. I mean, most organizations have, like, a social media policy that kind of think about how you talk on social media. One thing a lot of organised don’t have. Although when we did a survey of surprised more Cokes did have it is having a policy in place, eh? So that if you have a member of your staff that is being harassed because of who they are on social media, So, for instance, this is had walked through our CEO at my last job because we had a lot of experts that spoke out on a lot of issues in regards to humanitarian and development that could be controversial. Um, and if one of our experts was out speaking, and all of a sudden they were personally attacked, even maybe docks and I just kind of walked our CFO. So what could we do? As far as what we’ve prepared as faras if they need like personal security to be able to help them out, or if they might need to. Stella stay in a hotel room for a couple of days. It’s like they’re just walking through some scenarios, hopefully things that would never happen. But when those things happen, things start moving really quickly. So having like actually HR policies to support, like your staff, they’re speaking on social media because if you’re asking your staff to go and put themselves out there, they’re they’re both speaking their personal capacity. But they’re also there a za person. You just need to make sure that they’re that they’re taking care of. So we talked a little bit about that. I was actually what were some of the policies that came out of this? I was really surprised to see how many non-profits I have actually thought about that. I think that’s interesting difference between from now and a couple of years ago when I had talked with colleagues and most folks didn’t have that, um, and a number of folks ice that that actually their admin in HR people. They either it had, like practices or plans in place to be oppcoll Thio help folks out. Um, and that’s where some of those practices of this practice get the detail. We drill down to the details. Yeah, I think so. So one of them actually is making sure it’s over. Example. When we’re talking about a security issue well, making sure that there’s actually like an emergency fund that you could dip into that sort of a case emergency fund your person is working remote e-giving on. But there’s there’s access to cash for an emergency. Well, even the organization as faras if if someone has a personal security problem that there’s that there’s a fun that you could tap into the organization level, right? Okay, right, because, I mean, you can have the policies that, for example, like if, like if a staff member get stocks and that you’ll put them up in a hotel, etcetera, etcetera. But if you don’t actually squirrel away like an emergency fund, a rainy day fund at your organization, so when that happens, you actually can’t pay for the hood. The motel may need a new car, a different car for the time being in a new place to live temporarily. So making sure that the money the money that the money is actually there. And that was one thing hearing from folks that organizations are moving to that next step. Um, some organizations are actually so a lot of humanitarian rittereiser will have a security team that will work with people on on security trainings. And some of those organizations have now started doing Social Media’s security training, which I think is a prudent thing to do. Yeah, so it was positive Thio here that, um so there’s actually been a lot more progress than over the past couple years. Then I might have imagined, just from consciousness has been raised. There’s a lot of headlines on dhe, particularly the organizations that are provocative, doing controversial work. They know they’re at risk, you know, they’re they’re staff is at risk. And the volunteers, I mean, a centrist. In fact, I was doing a little research before the panel. So the Pew Research Center did a study in 2017 and four out of 10 adults have they found, have experienced some sort of online harassment. And if you look at folks 18 to 29 the number jumps up to 67%. Holy cow, 2/3. 2/3 of some kind on Hein harassment attacks from 18 to 29. Yeah, that’s that’s amazing. And so that’s why my God, everybody, that you’re growing up with it now. It’s like the tooth fairy. All right, Um, that was another 67 minutes together. You got any more hope? You do. You know the story or policy you mentioned hr. But also PR session describing Talk about PR policies. What you got for? Yeah, Speaking on the communication side, I think, and like with the photo example that we talked about coming up with ways to be transparent, but also to try the de escalate, uh, questions and again, thinking about one thing as far as if you’re gonna talk about something, can you talk about it after the event or the activity has occurred. So that way your folks air out of whatever activity or if they’re overseas, that there in his own unconference actually out of the zone of conflict, and then they talk about Okay, so that’s that’s one thing to think about on the on the communication side. I’m having a so have assisting have for social listening is super important. These days so you can get information real time. I recommend most organizations to no only track your key channels. But if you have colleagues that air speaking in a professional capacity or semi professional capacity just to keep an eye on again just in case something happens that way, you’re able to zsystems situations online can estimate really quickly. It’s been out of control within a couple of minutes. Come closer to the Mike Burns. Thank you. Yeah, I think another thing to keep in mind is when you’re listening, yeah, doing they’re listening And then keep in mind like the old philosophy is don’t put anything, don’t post anything that you don’t want to see in the New York Times. Yeah, if you want to see it as a headline, he don’t post it in here. I mean, one thing that I think a lot of folks forget is that remember the press really probably won’t call you beforehand before like grabbing skin grabs and running because we’ll just assume that it’s, uh, for general attribution. So so that’s so as an as an example for folks that actively worked for the press is just good for them to keep in mind and do, like a little bit of training. So, as example, a couple years ago, when I was living in Virginia, I was having a hard time because I owed the state of Virginia $1 income tax, your scofflaw troublemaker and the system. How is the state can operate without your dollar? Well, exactly. And the system is not set up online to pay $1. Okay, It was driving me nuts as far as I was. Like, I would drive down the Richmond, but it would cost me more and gas. And I was gonna like post on social media. How frustrated. I could just send a check. Well, ultimately, I did send the check because I called the apartment revenue. Uh, ultimately, like checking the stamp was the easiest way to do it, cause even they were confounded. And there was a point when I was so frustrated, almost like, put some post on social media about how ironic and funny that I really want to pay my $1 for the Commonwealth of Virginia. But the system set up, so you really can’t. Okay, Who wants to be delinquent for tax for $1. But then I realized I have a number reporters that followed me professionally and probably my place of work really doesn’t really want that to be in, like, a news story on so that the case is far. Is this kind of You just have to be slightly careful in anything you put on social media courses. It’s this kind of public works. So it’s good to have just swallowed that one that you pay your dollar. I did all right. But I did. Thank you, but I don’t live in Virginia, but I traveled. Virginia, I traveled 95 virgin. So next, no storm will be grateful. But the plow is there on gasped Onda, the driver behind the wheel of courtesy thanks to your dollar doing doing the right thing. Yeah, I want this in the penny rolls. But I thought that costume or in FedEx, you wanted to give a little stick to it. All right, I see. Um, tell us one more story. We got about another two minutes or so. Yeah, so, actually, this is gonna go back into the wayback machine on, and this is kind of early story, but this is an example with PR. But one of those strange days that you know, your computer wasn’t working. And so I went to my colleagues on the I t t. These aren’t so strange anymore. Sometimes I wonder extreme, which is which happens more often. Andan they looked on the server, and they actually like this is you have actually have a real problem. They were So they were recited on. And so they started playing around service and okay. And now we wait, what? The issue is, um, problem server. You had a bunch of e mails backed up. Now you should be good. Unfortunately, I then started getting a flood of emails, Um, and all in French, or at least 95% of them in French, um, went back to the times like, Oh, my God, what’s happening? So they went back and changed what? They changed on the server. And I don’t have to speak French. Fortunately, like I took Spanish and Japanese and high school in college. But I had colleagues that did who told me I probably wouldn’t have one to read most of the e mails. And so what it turned out was was that, um we were going to be having an event in a couple of weeks and bringing a leader from Africa. I won’t say which one who is quite controversial s. Oh, my email box had been targeted by Abasi campaign, and my colleagues on the I T team found it as they were talking about this new tool about the date myself that they thought they could find that solution in the new tools Google. All right. And But that was a That was an interesting case, as far as it was just It was a French advocacy group that was opposed to the speaker. You’re gonna be having a driven. And I was doing and I was press lead on the event, so they had targeted my evil boss. So, um, so that was that was interested. You handle it? Well, it was you. You talk back to these people, do you engage them? You try or we didn’t, uh, in that case, I mean what we came up with A So we posted something on our website explaining why we hadn’t invited the person why we thought dialogue was important. Uh um I mean, back in those days early like way. Still working on making it a lot by fax a Zara’s with the press. So put in a statement on the website was the easiest thing to do because it wasn’t like one good distribution point. We didn’t. But we did add a note into our email newsletter again, that kind of going a longer point in the newsletter, explaining this is why we hadn’t invited this person. This is why we think it’s important from speak. We understand people disagree, but we encourage you to come. But that’s a case also, where I was seeing the number of emails that they got that I got to say that they ended up getting in and getting more security for the We had no problems. Way did have some protesters that came and spoke out, but I mean, that’s actually was good. That was a dialogue that we really want wanted to have. Okay, properly managed. It can become an opportunity. All right, we’re gonna leave it there. He’s Bird Edwards, communications director at Friends of the Columbia Gorge on this is Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC 2019 non-profit Technology Conference, all each of our 2019 interviews is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits Make an Impact Thanks so much for being with us next week. New Power With Henry Timms If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by witnessed e. P. A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com By koegler mathos Software Denali fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot c e o our creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scotts. Dine with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. 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Sarah Hoang, Lucky Lim & Lalee Simeso: Youth Leadership Our panel of youths and a program coordinator explains how to engage young people in organizational decision making, using technology development as the vehicle. They’re Sarah Hoang from Park Youth Collaborative; Lucky Lim with NatureBridge Marin Headlands; and Lalee Simeso at Golden Gate National Parks Conservancy. (Recorded at 19NTC.)
Raj Aggarwal & Vanice Dunn: Whole Self To Work What does it mean for marginalized folks to bring their whole selves to work? Why does it matter for your org when people of color feel they can’t be fully themselves in your office? Our panel answers these and offers subtle but powerful strategies to dismantle barriers. They’re Raj Aggarwal and Vanice Dunn, both from Provoc. (Also from 19NTC.)
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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the trials of hyper amnesia if I had to recall that you missed today’s show. Youth Leadership. Our panel of youths and a program coordinator explains how to engage young people in organizational decision making, using technology development as their vehicle. They’re Sarah Hong from Park Youth Collaborative Lucky Limb with Nature Bridge, Marin Headlands and Lily sametz. So at Golden Gate National Parks Conservancy that was recorded at 19 NTC and whole Self to work, what does it mean for marginalized folks to bring their whole Selves to work? Why does it matter for your or GE when people of color feel they can’t be fully themselves in your office? Our panel answers these and offers subtle but powerful strategies to dismantle barriers. They’re Raja Agarwal and Vinny’s, done both from provoke. That’s also from 19 and T. C. Tony’s take to your board’s role in planned e-giving responsive by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers wetness cps dot com like koegler Mountain software, Denali fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn, to communications, PR and content for non-profits. Their story is your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO And here is youth leadership. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC. That’s 2019 non-profit technology Conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon, and all of our 19 NTC interviews are brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools for non-profits to make an impact. I’m with Sara Hong Lucky Limb and Lolly sametz. Oh, Sarah, seated next to me is youth leader at Park Youth Collaborative Lucky limb is environmental education Mentor ship Intern at Nature Bridge Marin Headlands on lolly sametz So is the high school programs coordinator at Golden Gate National Parks Conservancy. Sarah Lucky Lolly. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, have you So so I’m 56 years old. So But you think there are things that I can learn from all of you? Yes, there are definitely out there. I have no doubt of it. Okay, Okay. So your seminar topic is use the voice and design thinking, problem solving with empathy and scientific method. Okay, so let’s let’s just make sure everything is clear. So where you you are? You were each Sarah and lucky you were each interns at Golden Gate with some program in the Golden Gate Parks Conservancy. Is that OK? And Lily, of course. You’re the coordinator of interns and other volunteer programs or just intern. It was coordinated the Youth Advisory Council, which is made of high school students Where Sarah unlucky were part of Okay. Okay, um and so had you had you will put this workshop topic together. You’re from the from Golden Gate. So you’re from California. Had you will decide to come to this Portland, uh, conference and and teach us something, Had it all out of this whole thing come together. So the youth Advisory Council was tasked with with creating at NAP and a website that would get more Bay Area youth of color or underrepresented youth into the national parks. So in order to do that, we thought it was best for us to host a hackathon, but it kind of straight away from the concept of a hack down where you just called him back. And instead we opted for design thinking to get youth two actually create their own tool in which they would get more access into the part so they would be creating in the website or an app that would piqued their interest into the national parks. And that’s how we got into using design thinking. And that’s what that was. What is our inspiration for this session, right? And how did you end up here at the non-profit Technology conference? Whose idea was it to put this thing together? Come here. So our boss, Jessica, actually, she thought that our hackathon was such a success because we did lead 60 youth initially at the hackathon. And so, uh, you know, we wanted to spread Maura that message of the hack a thon to other youth and maybe just other people. So she actually found she’s been to end 10 before on So she kind of saw that they were having sessions, so we kind of created a proposal, and then we got we got those sessions. So luckily we got that. Okay, Lily, what’s what’s the advantage? You’re the adult in the group. I know. I don’t know if I’m the adult. Well, bye bye. Title. Maybe not by age. And maybe not by agent on emotion and thinking, but by title Uru you got the coordinator, Your coordinator? Yes. Okay, So what’s the advantage of empowering youth and youth leadership in our non-profits? Um I mean, I think a lot of non-profits are talking these days about, like, having diverse voices and being inclusive and things like that. But at the Golden Gate National Parks Conservancy, we actually implement that and that are you centered Crissy Field Center. We way actually, let the youth Cole lead whatever they are inspired to do. So that was our mission to be like. Okay, so now you facilitate this hack a thon if you want. Like, what is the like? What do you guys want to do? And I think the importance and that is that way need to let go sometimes, uh and, um, now try to project on what we think youth want or what they need. I think they need a little bit of structure, Sure, but essentially, they’re very brilliant, and they can lead themselves with a little bit of structure and support. Yes, that’s where that’s my role. I was like, support, like the administrative. And, you know, there’s money behind these things and time time arranging meetings, making around track, um, you know, reminders And like providing feedback. Okay. Essentially, they were the ones that put this together. Okay, So, uh, what can we learn from allowing youth to be leaders allowing you to be a leader? What? What the what the adults in the room gonna learn? Well, yeah. OK, so, no, it’s fine. I think it might sound cliche to say that like, uh, e-giving us that space to be leaders will create change. But we really do. We really will create change our communities. We have that confidence. And so just giving us that voice lets us be ourselves. And so when we ourselves, we could just do great work, you know? So I just think through youth voice that we can also be on that same level as adults in all professionals and creating different careers of that, is there? Is there any problem with you having that voice and speaking it? I mean, is there is there reluctance among folks your age, Thio to speak out, exercise the voice. Oh, most definitely. There’s no there’s no problem. I just think that we have to have that space because it is. I would say like now we have being around not but being a rabbit holes, being around adults kind of is intimidating, but because there’s kind of that power structure. But I think that when youse are comfortable and they know that they have a purpose, that they can implement that voice. So there’s no problem speaking the voice it’s getting no getting that old. Listen exactly something Everybody’s fake listening, you know? I mean, yeah, yeah. Brooke blow off. Yeah. Okay. Are lucky you say something You haven’t talked for a couple of minutes. Safe sex isn’t about the importance of it. The value of it. Yeah. I think that, um youth, obviously society is always getting more progressive. And we always have to rely on you since we are Maur inclusive and we are always thinking of diversity. Okay. And you are the future leaders. Exactly. Okay. So you may as well start you start young. Yeah, right now are the current leader is right. The current leaders off what they’re leading. Yeah, Future leaders of the nation. Okay, you’re right. Thank you. All right, it’s time for a break. Wagner, CPS. They had a free wedding are on August 21st Fair labor standards act Nuts, bolts and updates. Don’t fret. The archive is up. Uh, calculate the archive. Yes, you could get to the archive. What’s the point of this Webinar Wigan are you? Calculate the regular rate of pay and overtime for your employees and for yourself helps you understand. Paid versus unpaid time and Maur, you go to regular cps dot com. Click resource is and recorded events for the archive now back to youth leadership. So this is certainly the only panel where I’m gonna ask ages because I think it’s relevant. I think it’s relevant to the audience is relevant to this topic. People know how old you are, Sarah. I’m 18. Okay, lucky I’m also 18. Okay, Lily, you’re a coordinator. You don’t have to answer. If you don’t want to tell you our it’s up to you. You could defer 28. Okay. Okay, fine. 20 years young. Right. Ok, Ok. Good enough. Um, okay. So lucky You did pretty good explanation of what this program was about, but you said it involved. Originally, we were going to straight hackathon, and then it evolved into design, thinking it was always going to have design thinking is this. We use the term hackathon because it did involve creating or the concept. Okay, conceptions of act. Okay, let zoho for the for the adult listeners. Let’s make sure that everybody knows what design thinking means. I’ll explain it all right? So design thinking has five steps, and basically it’s an interview process. Um, the first step of design thinking it’s empathize in which to collect data on your user and try to understand their emotions and feelings, and then define is in which you take the data that you collect from empathize, and then you create a problem statement and try to get at a point of view off your user. In an idea, you come up with multiple solutions. Um, because of this step, you don’t really focus on the quality of the solution. You focus more on the quantity and how many different solutions are you create because design thing, it’s Edward. If you do it over and over again, It’s not about perfecting your solution. After you go through idea, you create a prototype of one of the solutions that you create. And then with that prototype, you will be handing it to your user or target audience, and they will be interacting with it and they’ll give you feedback on it. And then with that feedback, you can go back to the previous steps and start tweaking your solutions. Or you might find that you completely misunderstood your target audience and not to have to do it over again. Yeah, so it really focuses on your target audience is wants and needs. It’s a product design process. Okay, You’re gonna say Pivot, You thought I wouldn’t know what it means, right? Tell me. I was I wasn’t even thinking about it, but Okay, that’s good. OK, now I know it fits. I was afraid you were. You thought that this guy’s not gonna know what that means. Um, Had a better engage a part of the meeting from your program. Descriptions Better engage users in creating technology solutions to address their needs using using design, thinking. Okay. The project here was to get under represented youth into Golden Gate National Park Take advantage. The programs that Yes. Yeah. And it was one way Waas to create a youth portal. And so how that that would look like in engaging more young people of color? Could be through an apple website, but we didn’t know that. And so that’s why we hosted a hackathon four Bay area use of color for 14 to 26 so they can give us inputs and ideas on what would the use portal actually look like? What would it could look like? OK, eso Sarah. What? What’s something we learned from this from the exercise of the design thinking? Yeah. So I think going through that process, it’s much different than just simply asking the user. What? What do you want? Cause they won’t know what they want. Unless six broad question. Right? Such a broad question that you have to kind of have their minds turning. And so why from that exercise we learn Like how? What? What we really need from that process, we really focus and hone in on need versus what we want. What did you find out? Some of those needs are those needs that we need for in terms of bringing Bay Area used to the parties to the park. It’s hard to get to the parks in the city if you don’t know we have a really good transportation system. But but all that transportation, it kind of goes towards downtown versus the park’s withdrawn the outer edge of the city. First way. Can’t get there exactly basics. So beautiful park advice from with pictures in the look. Nice. Expensive. Okay, It’s like it’s what? Why would they want to go to this? Why would I want to go to a park? Right? Like if they have all these other things in the city to do, it’s how. What would make you interested to go to the parks? And so that’s what we were kind of asking them. What? How? Yeah, basically, how they wanted to kind of do things in the park that would kind of sparked their interest. Okay, Like what? What could the park feature looking that did you learn that would be attractive? A lot of people were interested in hiking, camping and also kayaking. So one of our prototypes that my group created from the hack a thon is that we created this idea of, ah gear library where people could borrow camping gear or kayaking or any other like gear that you can use in ah recreational park. And then it would be hosted in facilities within the park. And we would have an app that would be a catalogue for that library. And they can check when it’s available, when it’s not when it’s in use and can use a digital inventory. Yeah, Okay, Ellie, that sounds to me like something that the conservancy could fund-raising around. Sounds like something. Uh ah foundation. Or maybe an individual donor or to a couple donors could be interested in a Gere gear library for bringing, bringing thes populations to the to the Yes. Well, yeah, actually, there that that becomes your That’s your job. That’s your actually goes to the fund-raising part of your urine. The volunteermatch judgment. But thing is awesome. The attention of your libraries doable. Yes, it transit passes baby through the school. I don’t know. We actually we actually have that way. Actually, transit passes because of the because because of the idea coming out of the design thing, Not, not exactly, but it’s more about access And so we kind of worked with Yeah, so no. But they’re passes to get you into the park there. Yeah, we have. So there. It’s kind of complicated, but we are, like, special trainable. There are special national Park days where we do host where they have free national park days. Okay, so Okay, so So where transit is Free me, like drink. Well, transit for youth. Uh, agent under 18 is free on those park treyz. Well, in general wolber. Okay. Okay, wait. Okay. I’m confused. I thought I thought I thought it was expensive to get to the park. But you’re saying under 18 under 18 it’s free. That’s an expensive, I guess, Because you also it’s not only the buses, but there’s also a bar. Oh, it’s not only the buses, but it’s also barred like, Is it free? It’s not freedom. Right? But if you’re under its run uni exactly. So there’s a distinct it takes multiple sources of transportation to get to the park and so on. Lee Yoon hee is free is not, is not okay. Okay, Now, if I and improve this listeners, there could be 13,000 feet over 30 30,000 plus wondering what she said. But it’s just so the adult in the room, you know, screwed it up. Okay, also, they’re all expensive, but parts of it are. It’s only as good as the weakest the most. It’s only as strong as the cheapest method. Yeah, Okay, so now back to the fund-raising. So So the program developed this cool idea of a gear library with an online inventory. That sounds like something that’s Funda ball. Yes. I’m not saying I’m a professional fundraiser. I’m not saying you go out and you know we’re gonna have the money. I’m not saying that at all. It might take a year, but it sounds like something that attract could be attractive to institutional or individual funders. Absolutely. And also during the hackathon, there are nine different teams that had very tangible solutions for this portal features. And there are grants available that will can fund of these different features. Your library, look, your library get funded. Well, it’s not necessarily know what’s great Way got screwed. Your life were making the subject. No, The thing is, we’re working with developers to see what features could work in with portal right so they’re picking and choosing from each of these ideas. Thio make one accessible port for the So it’s not like we’re making just a gear library, right? We want incorporated a variety of opportunity. Really, really, really bad past. Solve a problem like that’s the mail. It’s a problem. A solution. You’re done. Passes. Bart, don’t. All right. All right. Um, engaging youth in organizational decision making. That’s a good one. That’s a good one. Um, how much? How much authority did do you have in buy-in? How much? How much decision making authority did you have in designing this? Designed the whole program. We actually have a lot of input. So where we kind of go off the quote of, like for you by you? And so we’re very especially at the conservancy eso at the Golden Gate. We have. Since the whole program is focused on youth programs, we actually get a lot of input. We had a lot of say into what we’re doing, what we how we implement things and even what we spend so and what do you learn from that way? Learned so much? I think it kind of autonomy teaches us that we kind of going off of what we’ve been teaching and preaching kind of youth voice. So it’s very were, since we have that voice we can implement and work work to improve and grow on how we do our own lucky. What’s your take on that? What? What what do you feel like? You learn from managing the program yourself Just a lot of responsibility. And like independence for a hackathon we actually broke into, like, groups of, um we just broke into groups with different tasks, and some people were tasked with food some people were tasked with, like focusing on creating the session and organizing everything. So yeah, Okay, um, confidence at all like, is that there any confidence building your case with a lot of confidence? We actually learned a lot of public speaking so confident we have confidence were ableto public. Speak a little better. Okay, Speaking is good because then you can convey your confidence. Exactly. Don’t do stupid like I do. I’m ranting about gear. Libraries don’t even when I’m talking about So don’t take, don’t take. We’ll take an example from here. That is what not to do. This example taken example but it’s a negative one. Um, okay, so then it must be more about you. What about How does the organization benefit? Lally? How does the conservancy benefit from his youth leadership? Well, the conservancy is big, and so we have what’s called the Crissy Field Center and that’s a youth center. A portion of the building in National Parks Conservancy. How does it benefit? I mean, if we are truly, um, if we truly said that we want to serve our young people and promote leadership and voice, then we should actually be practicing it versus just having it on our page or having it as a as a mission. I think it’s it’s easy to say it, but then actually, implementing it becomes harder walk more like literally. Yeah, and the thing is really working well. And also it takes time. So if I’m delegating rolls toe young people to actually take on responsibilities, we have to also support them and train them. So it’s like an added layer, right, instead of me doing the work for them or telling them what to do. So I think that that’s a downside. Yeah, yeah, well, no, but but not profits to know that, you know, you have to invest. You have to invest in your program. If you’re gonna actually do what you say, be true to what you say. Then you’re gonna have to invest in it. And that takes time. And it takes money, right? And it really does take time and intentionality. So even with, for example, even with the design thinking like, I had to learn it. So I just learned it on Stanford’s website. Watch the crash course an hour and 1/2 bam, bam! And then I have to, like, translate that to the for the young people. So that’s another added layer versus them, just going through the process, right? So there’s a lot of code switching and, like, language and curriculum changing and things like that for them to digest it, right? Was it hard for you? D’oh! Were you, uh, an advocate of this of the youth program and youth leadership? Was it hard for you to get buy-in from the people who needed to approve it? No, because there was They’ve been doing it for a while. It’s not something new, but I think, um, this is like another step right coming to the conference. I think that has never I don’t think that’s ever happened. And so this is like, where we’re showing a public showcasing the work that they’re doing. So I think that is the added layer of like, Okay, we’re really doing it. How does the Conservancy feel about that? I think great. Yeah, right. Well, I know that I know. You know, I don’t ask about that. Is a conservative side looking at Nancy? I think I feel great. I think they are very proud of us. I think there’s a lot of cheers and, um yeah, all right. Another like, three minutes or so together 34 minutes together. What else have you done? Your topic already? Always asked. Have you done the seminar already? Possession. You did it. Okay yesterday. Okay. So what else did you talk about? That we haven’t talked about here? Share. Don’t hold out on non-profit radio listeners. What else? What else did you talk about? Maybe Like you’re, um, how you started off until your leadership and like, your voice, you know, talk about what voice matters more about voice. We did talk about boys. Is there more to say. Uh, come on, Spend 75 minutes in front of an audience to We’ve been talking for about 20. So you’re holding out on non-profit radio listeners? I’m not gonna have it Pressure. Well, there’s other other stuff. What did you What did you say in front of the audio? Maybe the process of design thinking like how people like reacted to that? No, that’s all. You’re lucky. Wait. It was very interactive way. Just had every single person go through the process of design thinking with their partners. So they were, like, working to create a product for their partners to solve their needs. Yeah, it was very interesting to see people that process because there was a lot, like, a lot of confusion messiness. But then people get so caught up on trying to perfect a lot of good things can come out of confusion. Investigate? Yeah. Don’t Don’t don’t Don’t fear that. Please tell them. Please tell them we knew that. But you know, they they all right, I got another. I got another way to approach is what for Lucky and Sarah s. So we got 13,000 listeners to this podcast each week they work in non-profits begin small, small could be two people And they could be, well, small and midsize non-profits, but big for us to be colleges, hospitals. When you consider that Stanford University is on the begin, our listeners are small and midsize. Okay, so what would you, uh, would you like to say to the leaders of small and midsize non-profits about youth decision making his empowerment youth voices? Uh, so to the non-profits, I believe you should definitely implement youth voice whether it’s relevant or not to your work. I think I kind of like you said earlier. Starting young starting young always approves, improves many, many professional careers and promotes, like, used developments. I believe you should definitely incorporate youth for us because it is very, very important. Okay. Yeah, like what? Sarah said work with youth. Because if you train us to be come, um, more confident and have more leadership skills. We are going to be the working in these future field. So it would be better for the future to have us more competent and and also have the organization get that voice Currently, benefit is if you’re serving youth at all if they’re going to your why or if they’re going to your community health center If you’re serving families. Families include people who are young. Let’s let’s include their voice. Maybe not on the board of trustees. Although, baby, I actually think you can include a youth on the board of trustees. It’s interesting. You know what my fear is? That with person is youth is gonna be intimidated. I don’t think so. I think you have. I don’t think so. I think you structure it right. How do you know if you never have a youth representative, right? If your structure right to not intimidate Exactly right. So you have to give them a voice. You said earlier that you know, this is not just a like a perfunctory, you know, blow off kind of committee. It’s got real voice. If you give the person real voice, give them that opportunity. A riel place on committees. Andi, listen, they’re gonna know that they’re being hurt. Yes, and they’ll take that seriously. I mean, it’s it’s real ideas, like real things that could be implemented. Okay, here’s your here. And if it’s not trustees and advisory committee, okay. But not that as the default. This is all right. All right, We’re gonna leave everybody. All right, all right. Thank you. Thank you. You’re very welcome. They are Sarah Hong, youth leader at Youth at the Partners Collaborative. Lucky Limb, Environmental Education Mentor, ship intern at Major Bridge, Marin Headlands and Lolly to May. So High school programs coordinator at Golden Gate National Parks Conservancy. That’s them. We are non-profit radio. You’re listening to our coverage of 19 ntc non-profit technology Conference on all of our 19 ntcdinosaur. Views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software quote We use Denali Fund for non-profits. It’s easy to track how much is in each fund-raising simple to use. And the training is very helpful and thorough. Customer service has been responsive and caring and quote. That’s Laurie D from a church quote all the features of a sophisticated fund accounting system at a reasonable cost end quote. That’s Kim T from Lawrence Township koegler mathos software. They have a free 60 day trial at tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now it’s time for Tony’s Take two Your board’s role in planned e-giving. Um, naturally, there’s a video on the subject, but ah, little synopsis. There’s a lot that you’re bored conduce around planned e-giving. Naturally, it starts with their own personal gif ts that the goal is 100% participation that every boardmember. Has your organization in their state plans somewhere bequest my will, absolutely fine, but that they all have done something beyond that. Um, they should be encouraging their peers on the board. So as you’re trying to get this 100% participation, you’re asking boardmember to solicit each other. Um, they could be doing direct asks of others other, of course, other non board members that can host events for you. They can make introductions to others who may be interested in the organization, and that could lead to planned gifts for you. All right, And there are other ways that your boardmember is can be involved in very actively buy-in planned giving. You find the rest of those and everything flushed out on my video, which is at tony martignetti dot com. And that is Tony’s take do now. Whole self to work. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 NTC. This is our final interview for the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. We’re coming to you from Portland, Oregon, in the convention center. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising. Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me are Raja Agarwal, who is president and lead strategist at Provoke and Vinny’s Done director of equity. Also at provoke. Welcome. Welcome, brash. Welcome beneath. Thank you for having us. You could say hello, Raj. Even though Yankee Alright, we’re focusing on Denise. I’ll explain in a minute there. Session topic is beyond policy. How bringing one’s whole self to work on Dr Meaningful Change. Denise has to leave in literally, like, three minutes or something. So talk to her for a couple minutes and then Raj and I will I will do the vast majority of the bulk of it. He’s director of Equity. What is that position entail at provoc? What doesn’t entail Your boss is sitting here. You’re not well. Yeah, I know you’re not the president or lead strategy. Not yet or those things to s O. Director of Equity. I spend a lot of time thinking about how we can bring equity loans to the work that we do, whether it is co-branding and communications project or a Web identity on development projects. So it covers everything from thinking about who we have in the room breaking down traditional structures of leadership and decision making all the way. Thio, how we engage with audiences for our work. Okay, Is that a new position? It is. I made it out. You did? You had been there and then made it. Had I came there. I’ve been there for about three and 1/2 years. And I was ah, Brandley lead for a while and started Thio. Think about parts of my process that were non negotiable. Related to equity and land in a position. You only have a couple minutes, so we’re gonna go right in based on your session description. Um, I’m gonna ask a question that the description asks What does it mean for marginalized folks? Thio interact with the notion bringing one’s whole self to work? Yeah, it, um it means a lot of things. I think that for us, the reason we have the session, and the reason why folks engage in that session is there’s not an easy answer. And I think the important part is asking the question. We’ve seen a trend toward promoting the idea of bringing your whole self toe work without thinking about how that affects folks differently coming from different spaces. What does it mean to be a culture fit? Which is a word we hear get a phrase we hear get used a lot around whether or not someone’s a good fit for a company. So it gets nuance and really complicated when you think about folks coming from different experiences, different backgrounds and what that means for folks. So we wanted to open up space for people to share what it’s meant for them to bring their whole Selves to works, times when it’s been great and times when it’s been not so great not to give answers. But Thio elevate lessons that folks can share among their staff so they can figure out the best way is folks can bring the parts of theirselves that feel good to work. Yeah, that’s that last part that parts of themselves that feel good parts of themselves that feel safe. Exactly. White men could bring their whole Selves conveniently, and most other people are. Maybe all of the people cannot don’t have that luxury. Exactly. Exactly. And so what does it look like to create work places where there are spaces? Maybe it’s not every space, but what does it look like to create spaces where marginalize folks can come together on dhe and bring more of themselves on? What does it look like to create safer spaces for folks to get? You need a lean into bringing more and more of themselves to create better work and better work environments. I saw intent has a deep commitment to this. They have a space that is safe, and that is only for people of color. Absolutely white men and women stay out. Yes, we’re actually copans irritating that space way are so the racial affinity space it’s called. I know it exists. I didn’t know what’s going okay, which I admire it intern at NTC. I should say, um so So what does it mean? Way asked that we have a couple questions. What does it mean? What does it feel? What does it mean? to bring only the part of you. Let’s go. What’s the implication to an organization when your people you’re people of color, feel that feel safe, only bringing part of their Selves to your work? What is that? How does that hurt your work? Whether it’s, uh, emotional bottom line, you know you’re the you’re the director of equity e-giving. Give some insight. Yeah, not answers. Absolutely. I think it can create a lot of problems. One is with retention. So when you focus your efforts on diversity hiring and you get some really great people of color in your organization, if you aren’t thinking about how to keep them safe on and productive and happy and their workplaces, you’ll lose them. So they say, a lot of folks in diversity hiring push for the hiring and not for creating systems and operational izing practices that benefit staff of color as well. A cz white majority nastad. To me, that just sounds like tokenism. Absolutely well, hyre folks of color, but not give them power, not give them equity any decision e-giving voice or give them voice and not listen to it, not voice exactly. And so it creates that creates ah pipeline of folks coming in and falling right out and then the nonprofit sector. There’s actually a really great report called Reese Toe Lead a minute talks about 4000 person respondent and it talks about the cycle of people of color in organisations and how not prioritizing them in discussions creates that cycle of hiring and then folks falling out of the moving into for-profit sectors. So it’s really hurting our sector as a whole. Um, do you know where that reporters recently? Yes, it’s raised to lead on and it is by I can’t remember after donorsearch rates for the Yeah, the Google race deleted the first reports that yeah, lights have just gone out in 1990 sea. But not probably xero perseveres way continue here. It’s nice and damn, there’s no difference to me. Yeah, it’s softened things lead line even have our own lady so we could go black. We’re persevering. I’m getting 25 minutes of isn’t it? Kills us. I got a show to put on the show must go on lining in all its 1 15 That’s fine over. Niece needs to know. Okay, well, you you’re conscious of your time. Yeah, I should probably gotta go. I can answer another good conversation. I mean, it’s up to you. If you want to leave, it’s your life. Yeah, I actually have to leave because we’re having the follow-up session for the racial affinities. So give us. Well, stick with the original question. Uh, some more insight into what does non-profits clearly turn over if you’re not, If you’re not deep, it’s not a core values, diversity, equity inclusion, not a core value. And you’re not acting on it. Yes, it’ll just be a turnover cycle. You might as well not even bother. It’ll actually be counterproductive people of color, but well, then feel marginalized and speak badly about you for the rest of their lives. You might as well not even bother. Exactly. And it’s expensive. It is. Well, if you have to guess financial bottom line, it is expensive. Share another U. S. So there is another report I’ll share by FSG about the case for racial. The business case for racial equity on that report highlights a lot of the re reasons why, particularly businesses on other organizations that generate income that service the population that is in America should be prioritizing racial equity. And that’s because the population is growing larger than any other population. So for actually thinking about the people that were serving and the people that we our in service to that people will be majority in 2020. Exactly. Exactly. So to understand that reality. And we have to be thinking about how those folks are senator and conversations how are building policies and practices with them at the heart of the creation of those practices. Because you’re gonna be you’re gonna be left behind. Exactly. You know, it’s not 1955 anymore. Exactly. 2025 is coming. And you better realize that the whites are gonna be in the minority. Exactly. We cease to exist as a business organization. If you weren’t having those conversations now, Yeah, now is the time. It’s over time going by now. All right. Uh, I’m not I’m not rushing. You are. Okay. I shouldn’t say one more question. So I don’t want to keep your either. Yeah, I’m gonna head up. But I am really grateful for you all making the time for me and letting you head over to hold this race. Racial affinity space. Yes. You’re welcome. Thank you so much. Lebanese. Okay. Denise has departed the scent. Now we’re left with that. We got the residual We got the individual. You know that confused because he was on last year. Absolute Raj Raj. So why did you decide to invest off? Well, is Vanessa full time employees? Absolutely. Why did you decide to vest a full time employment slot and the money and the benefits that go along with that too? Ah, position called director of Equity. You know, my belief is that there’s nothing more. There’s no greater work that we could be doing in this world and helping to dismantle structural racism. But I also say that with hopefully some humility and self awareness that our company has a lot to do internally to make sure that we embody those values as well as helping. Now, a lot of organizations. Now it is helping to understand walking with them on the racial equity journey. So we found a lot of foundations, a lot of non-profits, um, organizations like in 10 that are naming racial equity and holding it close as a core value. And what does it mean to create spaces like the racial affinity space where it’s only for people of color. What does it mean, if your foundation that says that you understand that the reason that um, the issues exists within your community or with your grantees is all based on systemic racism and therefore will name that and then re orient or practices are giving the everything around understanding racial equity as the systemic reason for why the world is the way that it is? And so working with those organizations in that way has just been, um, just It’s just It’s really enlightening for me as I’m on my own path around understanding race and its impact on my life and others. But it’s also being at the helping to address the source issue. I’ve been working in the non-profit Arena for 20 years, worked with over 450 organizations, and I can’t tell you the number of organizations that actually don’t believe in their own theory of change or actually believe that what they’re trying to accomplish will ever actually happen. And so when you get to route, folks that are actually able to say we’re going to dismantle structural racism through our programs and through our e-giving. That’s really powerful because they’re saying that they don’t want the problem to exist anymore. I want I want every single person and non-profit to be out of a job, you know, because they Dave address what they write. Otherwise, what’s the point? You know, one time work-life Richard Branson’s Ah, Carbon War room. And they were like, we’re gonna be out of business in five years and my jaw dropped to the ground. It was the first time that a real well successful business person was like, I’m going to get into this and I’m gonna get it done now. They haven’t gotten it done yet because their work was around climate change and we obviously have a big issue. But who? Who goes into an issue saying that we’re gonna get five years out of business time for our last break Turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories, get media attention on those stories and build support for your work, media relations, content, marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. They’re at turn hyphen to DOT ceo. We’ve got butt loads more time for whole self to work. Let’s give a shout out to provoke because I want. I want people to know that it’s not a it’s not a, uh it’s not a d. I consulting agencies don’t talk about what you do. It provoked. Yeah, we d’oh what we called outcome driven, designed by the people for the people. So we do branding, marketing, technology, messaging, run campaigns. But if you were to say the two areas that we focused most on our working with organizations to dismantle structural racism and helping to end major diseases, and so we’ve really brought a human-centered design approach to all of our work. So Denise, really, she explained how that how we go about approaching our work with an equity lens, and so that means including all the stakeholders are gonna be impacted or benefit from the work that we’re doing in the creation process from inception to delivery on, and so that process often takes longer. But the fact is that at the end of the day, you actually produce campaigns messaging branding that is a lot more resonant with your audience than something that you would attempt to do as maybe consultant who thinks that they know everything or an organization who thinks that they might know everything about the people that they’re working with in the racial affinity space. Can you can you share some of the stuff that you were hearing? They’re so common, common themes in aggregate. I don’t know if I can let me let me try, because I’m not. I don’t wanna be representative of the fact that there were so many voices with so many different opinions. But one thing that does come up is that, you know, we live in a very white world, and often people that are white have an opportunity to be able to express themselves. However they want to the, uh just stop. Roger Second, You don’t know that the not only the lights go out. It’s not black with dim, but the non-profit technology conference is being taken down around us. I don’t give a shit. Well, I still don’t care. Non-profit video perseveres. I just wanted That’s the noise that you hear way asked ActBlue our partners here to keep up their backdrop so that let 1/3 of our background wouldn’t disappear while while we’re shooting video on, Dave kindly agreed. But all around us, uh, ntcdinosaur Ming down 1990 seats coming to an end, It doesn’t matter. We’re continuing. But I just want to let you know that’s the noisy here, both on both the video and and the podcast. Forgive my interruption. So to answer the phone, answer the question like this. I can’t be representative. Everybody that was in there. But overall, like often, people that are white are able to express themselves about what they’re seeing and experiencing in the world in any situation. And often there aren’t safe places for people of color to be ableto have those conversations and understand what it means to be an most likely predominantly white organizations. Um, and what they’re seeing around d I or what they’re seeing around. So a lot of the issues that beneath already mentioned and how to be able to talk about that with other people of color so that their solidarity there is an opportunity to be able to address those issues together versus feeling there alone. Often a lot of people of color, often one of the you know, the minority within their organization, and they’re often looked on to help explain issues around equity or racism. And they often have to do the emotional label labor of sharing with other people that are white, um, about what it means to be a person of color, and so that becomes really taxing. And so what does it mean when you don’t have other people that you can relate to or, you know, that often also dealing with a lot of white guilt, A lot of things air coming up nowadays in a way that has never happened before, especially in the age of Trump, where people are people are. People are becoming awake to what’s been going on for a long time, and there’s a lot of processing that happens as people realize that they’re a part of the system that created a systemic inequities in the first place. Yeah, there’s there’s There’s a big awakening buy-in wait for among white folks of what everybody else has been suffering for decades, generation, hundreds and thousands of years. Okay, now it’s well, that’s generation. That’s a lot of, you know, like I agree. So now it’s on the surface and conversations of being had we had our non-profit metoo we had our first d I conversation with you last year talking about really basically same subject. Can you bring your whole self to work? I think that was basically the topic that was the same topic. And it was really nice for intent to invite us to do that again this year when we spoke to some people, you know, this is an evolving conversation. Um, and it’s, you know, it’s not gonna be called a quote solved. It’s not a C R M or a technical or e mails, check bark. And also, it’s really nice for intend to be able to be like, Hey, we’re not gonna only talk about technology. But we’re gonna talk about this whole last week of the fact that you are a person not just performing a specific function at your organization. And also another thing that comes up is people feel like they’re in a progressive space. So therefore they would expect that people would understand, Um, but the fact is that there is a variation variants of what people people’s comprehension of the issue on. That’s just that’s normal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes startling how shallow the understanding is or even the unwillingness to to grapple with the issue, just ignoring it. Okay, well, it’s hard. We’re working. We’re working. It is hard. It is hard. But that doesn’t mean it’s insurmountable. But that doesn’t mean you should ignore it, because it’s hard. All right. Let’s, uh let’s talk a little about some strategies you have from your description. Strategies to dismantle barriers and encourage authenticity, huh? Focus on some ideas you have. Non-profits can start a conversation around. Maybe they’re immediately execute herbal if the organization is willing. What? What, What? What? Some advice. Yeah. Yeah, Well, one thing is, you know, I’m the founder of the company, and we have wonderful people at our company. And, uh, I think it’s important for me to model the best that I can to bring my whole self to work. But I also have made mistakes in doing that. Being the head of the company, I yield a certain amount of power that other people don’t. So I’ve learned about, I’ve learned, and I’m still learning about what’s appropriate versus what isn’t. Um, you know, there’s other aspects, you know, not just beyond race, but it’s also about age. And, um you know, and sexual identity and all the other you know, isms that are out there. So, um, I think dialogue is the most one of the most important things that we can. D’oh there one of the things that, as faras specifically around race provoke, worked away. The group called the Government Alliance for Race and Equity and Race forward for a two and 1/2 year campaign to help dismantle structural racism in five cities around the country. And from that we develop the campaign called Racial Equity here and over almost 600 organizations, non non-profits businesses, cities, educational, academic institutions have taken a pledge to make a public commitment towards racial equity. And because everybody wants to know about what do I do about that? We created some really well researched and vetted tools that are freely available to anybody if they make this commitment to understand what understanding the history of race and racism and racial equity, and also what they can do about that specific topic. So what? And so this is like a self guided tool that organizations can bring into their organs, bring into their companies and sit down in a two hour meeting and review this information together. You have to make the pledge first, and then you get access to the tools. Yet where do you go to make the play racial equity here dot or GE Racial equity here dot or Tony, I love the CIA. You take that pledge. I’m a business owner. I’m the only person in the biz. There’s a lot of businesses on our one form. You don’t mind a one person? Not at all. It’s gonna take one person at a time. Okay, that’s all I got. Um, okay, uh, better if I don’t write it down the way this racial equity here Yeah, you know, that’s where other tactics go. Are so which were not reticent to give people checklist about things because sometimes people say that they want, you know, that’s what people want, but it’s a process. It’s not what you said earlier. Tony is about, you know, putting people of color in not not doing tokenism, you know, putting them in, bring them into your organization and then making sure they’re real voice and responsibility and authority inappropriately with their level. Nobody’s saying bring them in and put them on your board. That depends. You know, one thing I’ve recently learned about that was a big learning moment for me. Is this concept of lived experience? I’m on immigrant son, and what we’ve been taught is you work really, really hard. Go to college. You work really, really hard after college. And then maybe at some point you get to this point where you get the corner office, you get a big paycheck, and then you get a pension or you get a retirement, whatever that is. You know, these are the old stories that I was brought up in. But the fact is that people are growing up with their lived experience, and that has as much, if not more value than a degree or time that they’ve spent in their actual position on. I have to tell you, this was one of the hardest concepts for metoo t talk about this last year. Job descriptions for recruiting, about use of the word professional, the additional appearance. But we also did talk about life experience and valuing that. So, as a business owner with a degree, this was hard for you. Too hard for you to understand. Yeah, absolutely. and we’ve made some changes to address that. And how’s it going? I’m have you made hires that I don’t have degrees, but have valuable life experience Way we’ve provided. Um, We’ve provided Wheatley. We’ve provided pay for people based on their lived experience lived experience. Okay, I was hesitant to share that, cause I just wasn’t sure what was appropriate. But, I mean, that’s just what we’re doing and said okay. Yeah. Thank you. Is it? Has it been long enough that you can say that? It’s You’re glad you’re glad you did it. I’m 100% God. I I I I wish I had learned about it or the leader. But it’s just, you know, my conditioning and how I grew up in this country is just, you know, didn’t it Did not compute. Okay, that’s that anymore. Strategy? Well, we have. Yeah. You want to leave people? We have, like, a minute or wave like two minutes. Sorry. As the world comes down around more strength, it is coming down. The lights are still dim. You wouldn’t recognize this as a conference anymore. I mean, I guess you would know that it’s a conference centre, but you wouldn’t see a conflict here, but they’re leaving us alone Will be such a I’ve seen crates go by a forklift to drive by. But you’re masking tape in there. You duct tape in the background doesn’t matter. You know, one thing that’s also interesting that I noticed recently is that, um, number one. I wondered about this racial affinity spaces Number one. Did people feel comfortable coming to us face like that, knowing that’s not technical in its nature, It’s more of a space for gather. And do people feel guilty about it? And also, I think that for me, I’ve been on my own journey around race since about 2015 where I was like, Oh, there was like this. I mean, I think I’ve always known it, but I never have, like, really dove into it as much as I ever have in the last few years. And I think this is happening. Not only, you know, we talked a lot about how people that are white are often thinking about this topic, and it’s coming up with a lot of stuff, but I think it’s coming up a lot more for people of color that haven’t happened had been to become so ingrained in being in white spaces and being comfortable in it, it started to give other people permission or a realization that there is something that they haven’t been addressing. Proactively. Yeah, and so the racial affinity space was Yeah, it was. I think it was more about the quality of the conversation. I used to be a party promoter. Everything used to be about numbers for me. And now it’s just about Oh, you know, how’s the conversation? And same thing within our organizations, when a leader or person says that we’re gonna create some sort of space or curriculum or put resource is behind things. Um, all of a sudden, people start to feel differently because you’re like, Oh, what? This actually matters and you’re gonna create a culture where more people will want to work with you. We’re gonna leave it there. Okay. All right. Good to see you. Good to see you too. 10 Tony martignetti non-profit radio ending their our coverage of 1990 sea as it comes down around us around me and Raj Raj. Dr Wallace, President, lead strategist at Provoke, which is P. R. O V. O C. And you’re listening to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage Ending of 1990. See all our aunties, All our 19 ntcdinosaur views brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us next week. Online Major e-giving and online adversity. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, Find it on Tony martignetti Doc, Come, We’re sponsored by Wagner C. P A’s guiding you beyond the numbers weather cps dot com By koegler Mountain Software Denali fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot c o our creative producers Claire miree off Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that information. Scotty, be with me next week for non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show Beyond potential. 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Jake Grinsted, Leah Kopperman, Kai Williams & Medha Nanal: Manage Your Programs With A CRM The right CRM can help you run day-to-day program operations: track client relationships and outcomes; host trainings; manage certifications; organize transportation; and more. Our panel was recorded at 19NTC and they’re Jake Grinsted from Simply 360; Leah Kopperman with Keshet; Kai Williams at The International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council; and Medha Nanal from Top Cloud Consulting.
Debra Askanase, LaCheka Phillips, & Kevin Martone: Co-Learning For Your Programs This 19NTC panel encourages you to look at a more collaborative training culture, which pushes the bounds of who is the educator. They’re Debra Askanase at Oracle NetSuite Social Impact; LaCheka Phillips with TechSoup/NGOsource and Kevin Martone from JCamp180.
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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. I’m firing a listener. Steph Marie p. Left this iTunes review on March 11th 2018. Quote content is great. Okay, but universal. No. Gator cancels everything preceding it. Tony often chastises his guests or asks a question and then bulldozes them When they reply, it can get awkward and off putting. For example, a guest started off a response with good question, Tony. And he admonished the guest for saying that rude and weird. End quote. Steph, Marie P. Get off my show off. I want you to stop listening. I do not want you to be listening to my words. You don’t get me. I am in no way going to try to explain me to you because it would be over your head. You don’t have a sense of Well, maybe you do have a sense of humor. I’m not gonna go at home now. I’m not gonna go there. Maybe you have a lovely sense of humor. But you don’t share mine or you don’t even get mine. Let you don’t have to share it. You just have to understand it and you don’t. So I want you off the show. So here’s what I would implore you. I beseech you to do first. Unsubscribes Don’t stop yet. Don’t pause and stop yet. I want you to go. Whatever platform you’re listening is probably iTunes. That’s where your review was. Unsubscribes unsubscribes. Okay, now then you have to do that. Come back. Hit. Stop Not pause because we’re stopping. Stop and go away. Do not listen to this show again. Next thing I know, you’ll be chastising me because I’m lewd and weird to imaginary interns. You don’t get me and you never will. Please stop listening, Steph. Marie P. Get off my show. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. Now that Steph miree P is gone. I can say that with enormous confidence I’d be hit with favoritism if you beaned me with the idea that you missed today’s show Its program day manager program with a c. R m. The Rite CR M can help you run day to day program operations, track client relationships and outcomes. Host training’s manage certifications, organized transportation and Maur. Our panel was recorded at 19 NTC and there, Jake Grinstead from simply 3 60 Leah kopperman with Cash, Chi Williams at the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council and Meta Channel from Top Cloud Consulting and Co. Learning for Your Programs. This 19 ntcdinosaur encourages you to look at a more collaborative training culture, which pushes the bounds of Who is the educator. They’re Deborah askanase at Oracle Met Sweet the Sheik, A. Phillips with Tech Soup, NGO Source and Kevin Martin from J. Camp 1 80 on Tony’s Take two Living Trusts Responsive by Wagner, C. P A is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com By koegler Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission turned hyphen to DOT CEO. I feel so much better. Burden off my shoulders here is manage your programs with a C. R M. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 and T. C. You know that it’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. You know that we’re coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. What you don’t know is that I am now with Jake Grinstead, Leah kopperman, Chi Williams and Meta Channel, and their seminar topic is not just for fund-raising anymore. Managing programs With C R M zsystems You also know that all of our 19 NTC interviews are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Let’s meet the panel. They are again Jake Grinstead. He’s founder of simply 3 60 Leah kopperman, director of data and C. R. M at Kesha Chi Williams is the executive director at the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council, and methanol is seated furthest from me. And she’s the principal at Top Cloud Consulting. Welcome. Happy to be here. Have all four of you. It’s a big panel, but way can accommodate Absolutely. Thank you. So I’m not sure is this is this, uh, let’s start down at the end with the metal. Is this is emerging, or is Am I just not aware that your C R M database can be used to manage programs? You’re welcome to say that I’m just not aware. Yeah. So it has been around for a while, but definitely in the nonprofit world, it is an emerging awareness that it can be used for a program metoo management. Okay. And what, Metta, Let’s stay with you. What do we need to have in place so that we can do this way? Just need us, C r m databases that it, or are there other things we need to have? No. So you have to have the right kind of serum because not all CR ends in the market right now are capable of supporting program data. So you need to have right tools and write features in the Sierra system to support this. Okay, Right kind of cr M. Okay. Uh, so we’ll come back to that because we have 1/2 an hour together. Um uh, let’s see. Hey, why don’t you sort of give us Ah, a headline and a lead? Uh, that anything more? You could say that to introduce us to this. Yeah, I think that while using serums for program management and it’s itself not new, it’s much more broadly recognized. My organization, I felt like even just four years ago, Coming on working on ours for five years ago, people were like, That’s Syrians are for fund-raising. And I’m like, No, this makes sense. This is how it’s gonna work for us. And I had this vision and I was able to find the people that work with, but it wasn’t a conversation anyone else was having. And now I go into a session and everybody’s like, Let’s talk about program management. So are you a pioneer or early adopter? Early A doctor. I think the pioneers were way before me. All right, All right. Leo, what’s the advantage of doing this? Well, I wanted to also remarked that the organization that I’m with Kesha we’ve been using C r. M to manage our program since 2012. So we were really early adopter Warren earlier. You weren’t. You sure you want a pioneer? Why can’t I personally wasn’t I was not with Kesha and 2012 with the organization. I would I would say so. Yeah, I think so. Okay. That’s not a scientific survey statement. It’s just got gut instinct. Think so? Okay. Yeah. Um, Lee also credits herself with being That makes it sound like nobody else believes it. I believe I do believe it. Teaching me how to sign a sign up for a Twitter. He had a start. My account on Twitter. Now we have Susan Chavez is my mind that the show and my company’s works from works as our social manager. But she was not the social manager in 20. We’re not sure where this 2014 or 15. We’ll have to look at what it will say. Joined. Right? Right. My name’s has joined it, I’m sure was maybe Susan can tell us. Okay, maybe she’ll look, I know it was not 16. I know. I’ve been on longer than 16. Okay. Uh, okay. And, uh, Jake, what’s the advantage to doing this? What? Why? Why? Why not just do it Separate different management for our programs? Sure. I think there are a few advantages of having a serum for non-profits programs, and one of them is allowing for more time for your program staff to really focus on what they do best. Focus on their passion, focus on why they were hired, and that’s to actually manage the programs that they have. So having a non-profit serum allows you to cut some of the administrative overhead that doing doing this type of work with multiple different systems, maybe on paper, maybe an excel, maybe in different databases. By bringing that together, you make it a lot simpler and cut down on that time. But what if the comparison is with ANAP location? That’s that’s designed for program management versus managing your program through the C. R. M? So I would argue that if it program is designed to manage your sorry if application is designed to manage the programs, it quite well might be a program crn that’s probably see around. We should probably back-up is giving you Siara here, Jake Constituent Relationship management. So it’s any application that helps manage the relationship that your organization has with your constituents and your constituents might be the people you serve in the fund-raising world. Obviously, it’s the donors and the people who help support you. But in the programme world, it’s those the people that are involved in your mission might be volunteers. It might be the people use serve. It might be others involved with whatever your mission is. All right. All right. So So since I got I gotta go, Leo. Because with grand grand, I’m sorry. I gotta go to Chi because of the grand theatrics that you gave Jake, I have to go back to you. So what are we? Wait, What are we talking about? Are we not talking about, Like, salesforce and razors edge yet for program management, right? We are we talking about Exactly. I would say that Razor’s edge doesn’t really support program blackbaud other blackbaud tools. D’oh! We’re talking about service. We are talking about a fund-raising C r m being used for a, uh, just just a c r M serum that theorems air, not natively just for fund-raising. Those xero ends there for any constituent management, although some are designed very much for fund-raising like Razor’s edge. But sales force. And that’s the reason my order, when we were doing all of our evaluations of many serums, they were out there in 2013. We ended up choosing that one because it was more of a platform that we could use for program management, Um, versus something that was just set up for fund-raising. But CR rims are for everything. I would argue that if you did not have a program cr em, you’re probably using sheets of paper or spreadsheets. That’s really the alternative. Okay. Okay. Well, that’s exactly what medicine to you have to have the right kind of cr m. Yes. Yeah, it’s time for a break, but, uh, Sam didn’t tell me. Now he did. Wagner CPS. They’ve got a free webinar on August 21st Fair labor standards act nuts, bolts and updates. Now, today is August 16th. So the odds of anyone listening live or archive, which means anybody, because that’s only two ways you can listen, if you could just say theon of anybody listening doesn’t matter. Live our archive. You’re wasting syllables here, Thea. Odds of anybody listening on August 21st are slim to xero. So watch the archive. Um uh, it’s a wagon or yeah, we call these waiting to call these things. These wagoner webinars webinars. So this wagon R is the Fair Labor Standards Act. Calculating regular rate of pay and overtime pay for employees or for yourself that counts. You count to understanding, paid versus unpaid time and a lot more. You’ll find this wagon are the archive thereof. At wagner cps dot com, you click resource is and then recorded events. Let’s do the live list or love. I feel like doing it early today. Um, starting native, starting domestic, I should say not. Maybe not native but domestic. Ah, Sacramento, California on Hollister, California and Tampa, Florida. And those were abroad will get their Hammond, Indiana, special Live listener love after Hammond, Indiana. Franconia, Virginia. Franconia, Alcohol Franconia. Know whether it is, um uh, no, that’s Peru. That’s abroad. I wish she would organize his better. Sam. Really? You could do a better job for me. What kind of support is this? It’s unbelievable. I don’t have interns or don’t even get producer support. So also all jumbled up between domestic and abroad. I gotta figure it out. Salt Lake City. All right, That’s, um I guess he would consider that domestic. Yeah. Salt Lake City, Utah Live. Listen, love. After you do New Bern, North Carolina Live love to the new burns. Ah, Hell’s Kitchen, New York. I love I love that Hell’s Kitchen shows up as a separate entity. It’s not New York, New York, it’s Hell’s Kitchen, and that’s the only neighborhood in New York where that happens. We don’t get we don’t see, um, Nomad or Dumbo or Upper East, but Hell’s kitchen specific. I love that. I admire that. How do you How do you do that helps get you probably even know what I’m ranting. I don’t even know what I’m talking about. Um Raleigh, North Carolina. Live love out to you as well. Cool. That’s a Carolina today. Um, Now let’s go abroad With which had a better organized list from Shanghai. Doesn’t do by continent during Times Hemisphere released. You could do atmosphere. That’s only four of those. For Christ sake, you could do atmosphere. It’s only four of them. Shanghai, Shanghai, China Showing how you with us often. Thank you so much for that For that loyalty. NI hao Ni Hao and Seoul SEOUL, South Korea Also so such loyal, loyal, live listener love the soul Annual haserot comes a ham Nida Mexico CITY, Mexico Witnessed our days when a star dies. Mexico City and Tehran, Iran. You’ve been checking in occasionally. Now, Tehran. Thank you for coming back. Um, our keep. Ah, Peru. That would be Ah, put yours up. Portuguese now? No, the only spanish. So I ve been a star days When a star days for arctic quip Peru Thank you for being with us. Um, that’s everybody abroad. And, uh so live lister, love. Thank you so much for being with us and the podcast pleasantries. Because we have over 13,000 people listening in the time shift and the pleasantries go out to you wherever we fit into your schedule. I’m grateful pleasantries to you, and we know that we are minus one. Where ah, 13. Like 13,500 minus one from now. Going forward. Not just this week. I’m not going to say her name anymore. Uhm And so why did I wait till you may be wondering why that we tell today this review from, uh, that person was march 11th 2018. I don’t check that often. I don’t I don’t look at the reviews like every month even, uh, but I have seen it. I have. I’ve seen it long before today. I just was ignoring it in the past. And then the last time I saw it, I don’t know. Whatever it was a month or so ago, it annoyed me. So So that’s why that’s why uh, no, I haven’t been annoyed for for these 18 months since March or something of last year. But I’ve been annoyed for the past week, a month or so, and now I’m over it. Therefore, we’re moving on to Ah, what we’re doing. We’re continuing, of course, with Jake Grinstead, Leah kopperman, Chi Williams and methanol talking about managing your programs with Sierra. One of the fundamental differences is that in fund-raising CR M in fund-raising world, right, The kind of fund-raising data that every organization maintains is fairly typical. So whereas for programs, that is a huge where I d And so your CNN system needs to be able to store and manage all those different kinds of data, that’s a prerequisite to be used as programs. Okay, Okay. Uh, so you were just backing up a little asking about, like, different kinds of Syrians. I’ve certainly worked in social service agencies where in the past they’ve had what’s called a case management system and that really is what the social service frontline staff would use to manage the clients that they work with. So that’s really very parallel Thio, the kind of idea that we’re talking about a program management system and the advantage of not having a separate program management system and a separate fund-raising system is often there’s overlap between who your constituents are, and somebody who participated in one of your programs may very well end up becoming a donor or somebody who participate. Somebody who’s a donor may become a volunteer, and if you’re managing your volunteer program and you’re managing your client base through the same system, then you have up to date information and email addresses. Postal address is interests, etcetera, and so you can use it both for the client and and for the fund-raising. All right, so I think I’m trainable here. But let’s make sure so you can have a generic C R M that will manage fund-raising and Andi program operations trainable. I would take this a step further and say, In addition to what Leo just said, your program crn might often be very helpful to your development. Your fund-raising department. There are so many times where your fund-raising team are going to need to ask the program team for certain statistics and reports and data about the programs that they run because they’re gonna need that for their grants and etcetera to do their fund-raising. And so if the data is in the same place. If everyone’s using the same tool, the same crn the development staff would be able to have access directly to the reports and the information about the programs that are being run without having to tie up program staff. Time to actually pull those that information separately. That’s another advantage of bringing those things together and what xero. OK, OK, in your program description. Have you done your program already? You have your on the downside. It’s great. Okay, um, nobody came with a glass of wine in the bar is open, even my drink. Okay, Jake, that is not water. I guess that’s vodka. Leah has a metal bottles. We don’t know what’s in that. Two women down the oak. That is already finished. I think I That’s Jim, not water. Alright, So good. I’m glad I’m not hindering the fun and excitement part of social part of 19 nineties E for any of you. Okay, so in your program, in your session description, you take off a whole bunch of things that can be run through a c. R. M. Tracking client relationships and outcomes run training’s manage certifications, organized transportation. Is it worth taking through. Is there enough to say about each of these about how the C R M should can be used to do each of those things? Or is that too much in the weeds? The way that we handled the panel was each of the four of us did like a case study, where we talkto sort of soup to nuts how we use our serum to manage one particular thing. I don’t think there’s enough time here to run through, but that that is how we handled it in case studies. My brief. I don’t know if you’ve got a little example of how shit uses when it might be helpful for sure so way. But we can. We could do brief examples. So you each have a different CR M doing something different. Yeah, because because all the organizations that we are working with or at our do different mission and Jake you’re the consultant here. No, I actually 36 from the founders simply for 60 were actually creating a C. R. M that is designed for programs. That’s why we started something for 60. I work from non-profit where we found it frustrating that we couldn’t find a good program. Cr m. And so with that organization I actually started and founded simply 3 60 to do that to fill that need. Okay, so in the session, I actually talks about one of our founding clients s O, That I use that as a case study and represented them talking about how having a program crn for them has been so helpful thing. American Camp Association of New York and New Jersey. Okay, Okay, I’m willing I’m willing to hear the case is from each of you, But you realize that we don’t have 75 minutes. So So I know on dhe. I appreciate that you aren’t all nodding, is it? But what happens when you start talking? You get into your stage hit, and all of a sudden you’re three minutes. Story becomes 12 minutes, and then we’re out of luck. So I have to cut off everybody else, and everybody will be pissed off at you. And they’ll wonder why they didn’t go to the drinks instead of coming here. Should have drinks. Why? I waste my time here because they didn’t get to tell the story. So everybody gets, uh, okay, so we’re 13 minutes. We’ll make this the longer sessions as 27 figure. We spent a minute bantering, so we’ll go to 28 which is about 15 divided by four. I’m impressed with math, but I haven’t finished it yet. 15 divided by four is less than four. It’s like three minutes and 1/2. So everybody gets about three and 1/2 minutes. I’m gonna I’m gonna try my best. All right? So everybody gets three minutes and 30 seconds on Duh. At the three minute mark, I’m gonna let you know that you only have 30 seconds left and we’re gonna hold you to this s o I since I feel bad. That meta is sitting at the end doesn’t have a devoted Mike. And I feel second bad for, um, for Kai, who also is has to share my So let’s start at the end. With Metta, you have three and 1/2 minutes to tell the story at, um top cloudgood. The top cloud consulting shared in the Okay. Get closer to the study of one of the clients I work with. The organization worked in the areas of health and wellness. They programs such as individual and group therapy for physical humans on wellness programs. So before I started working with them, they were managing their data. Alden spreadsheets. It was spread all throughout the organization with all the program teams. Every time that the team’s wanted to pull any kind of report, they were pulling that out of individual spreadsheets and manually formatting into the desert former and that was taking them days. Thio create a report. So number one it was a giant waste of organizations. Resource is on number two. Everybody knew that pulling the report was like pulling teeth, so they were not even using reports as much as they should. So after we moved there, they tied to the Syrian system. The reports were quick, instant, instantly available up to date, not for five days old on the organization started using reports as a feature much more frequently because it was available so much more easily. That’s so concisely I didn’t get to give you a warning. Uh, you’re here a little more You want to say Okay, tell our stories, and maybe, maybe maybe maybe the host will develop some questions. You black lackluster. Who’s No? No, you still get your three minutes? You still get your three? What? I say three and 1/2 actually. Three minute warning. He’s cutting it down, so I don’t know, You know, meta exceed XL, but you could be You’re welcome to be lackluster. Please. OK, eso I work with the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council. We provide training and resource is on wildlife rehabilitation. We have membership. We have classes, we have certification. We have a practicum. We use our serum to manage all that often. It’s the same people doing all of that. And then maybe they have an extra $5 they’re helping us out with the $5. Or maybe they’re volunteering for us. So we get to see all of that before we have C R. M. We had an old system and we actually lose data. Wait, hold on. I’m sorry, Amy. Sabat Ward, Stop distracting the guest on top of radio. You had your chance. You had your shot. Just distracted CEO of intent is distracting, distracting Leah and J everybody making this wave on camera. All right, I’ll spot you an extra 15 2nd All right? Yeah. So before we had our modern serum. We were losing data like we have a registration that would get lost because the system in between one server and the computer, it would just disappear. So we have people showing up for classes and we have no record of them. Really. A lot of issues with trust, all sorts of problems. So with the modern serum were able Thio one have everything in one place. I know to trust our data. We haven’t come directly from our website into our system. We’re able to track our measure, tracked measurements, assessment of how the students are doing, how they’re engaging with us. It’s It’s quite an interesting set up, Andi, I guess I want to mention one interesting thing we found as we talk about our case studies because they’re all very different. You know, I’m contracting with hosts and doing sending certificates to students and all the stuff that happens in between there. But we found this similar framework. We are all even though our products are very different. The steps we need to go to are very similar and so we’re hoping to kind of create some data models for other non-profits to dues to be ableto have program management CR ems. And how are you? How are you collecting that? Well, I’m working with a couple of different groups on that, but user user studies just people. It’s really just people like the four of us getting together and walking through these scenarios and saying, Oh, okay. This flows into this, which is this, and this is always an assessment piece. Even if you might not call it assessment. This is your registration, your enrollment, something that sort. This is your program piece. Oh, this might be an add on. If you have a case management your assessment might be Did they find a resolution? But there’s these really core similarities, and so I’m excited to see where that goes. Okay, I appreciate that. You actually did accept my admonition. Thio keep things concise. Haven’t given a three minute warning yet. Okay, now, Leo, don’t blow it, okay? I’ll do my best. Really? Okay, so So it kiss it. We air the LGBT Q Jewish organization in the US, where national and focus on our mission Shin is too have full inclusion of LGBT Q Jews in Jewish life and one of our programs that we do is where we train the leaders of Jewish organizations to have more inclusive environments for sorry for Jews who are participating. And it’s not the water over the vodka. So we that we do in sort of regional programs and we do a year long program, say, in Chicago, where the Jewish Community Center and the bunch of synagogues and the, uh, I don’t know if there’s a Jewish community foundation. Whatever the Jewish organizations are in the area, they all commit to this year long program and we offer them training and help them set goals to make their organizations more inclusive. And we provide them with coaching services over the course of the year and the way that our Sierra Miss and then at the end of the year, they you know, sort of report back to us through a survey about, uh, how they felt about being participants. And so the way that we manage that program with our serum and we happened to use sales force is that we way use existing data in the sales force. Instance toe understand what communities might be the next ones to offer a program in right Well, look, we’ll see. OK, we have enough people, maybe in Cincinnati, that maybe that’s the next community. Well, where will offer a program? And then we can do marketing using that C R M to the all the Jewish professionals working in Cincinnati and and advertise the program and reach out and say, We’re going to be running this and will you enroll? Then we have a sign up process where organizations will sign up and add the that information about their organizations baseline measures of where their organization is at in terms of Do they have gender neutral bathrooms? Do they have a new LGBT clue of LGBT affirmative group in their community? Do they have a bullying policy? You know, all these different kinds of measures. We asked them up front when they fill out the form and they tell us where they are, is a baseline. And then they, during the program, set a bunch of goals. Those all their goals go into our serum and then our coach has access to all those goals and works with them over the course of the year. Two. Help them reach those goals. All those girls also populate a dashboard that we have in the serum, that our executive leadership can look at any time and see 80% of the current leadership project. Participants are you know, they have started on 40% of their goals. They are still waiting to start on 10 and they so we can see they can see the progress without having to ask anybody. That’s just there in the dashboard. And our fund-raising team can also use that to make a case to a donor because it’s just right there in front of them. They can log in any time and do that so and then at the end they do a survey and we and we find out one of the things we want to do is change mind set, openness, three minute warning, okay. And we want to change the mindset of the participating organizations. So we asked them at the end did they see new opportunities for LGBT inclusion in their communities. And one of our measures is what percentage of organizations reported that and we have about 80% of our participants reporting that they did see new opportunities for inclusion. So it’s been very successful all right, Jake. So yes. So one of my founding clients, the American Camp Association of New York and New Jersey. They are an affiliation of summer camps in the United States, and their mission is to help in rich lives through the camp experience. So they help train camp staff. They help parents figure out which camps to send their children to and just generally promote the can’t summer camp experience in United States. Um and so I want to touch on another potential benefit of a program serum that we haven’t been touched on already. But we haven’t properly articulated yet, which is the benefit that it can give to constituents themselves. So the people who are actually benefiting from the program can really benefit from their organization having a program xero. And I’m gonna give you an example of how at the American Camp Association of New York and New Jersey, they have this amazing program. This wonderful lady there named Rene, who is in charge of helping parents find the right summer camp for their children. And she works oftentimes one on one with parents to help them find the camp. It would be good for them and so what we were able to do once we had all of the camp, all the member camps that are affiliated with this organization into a program. Crn we were able to start exposing that information on their website directly and gave parents a chance to go to the website, fill out a form as to what their children might be interested in. You know how long the camp should be, How much it should cost nb be able to actually search for summer camps right there on because they had now this one see Iran, where all of their camps were together. They could trust that the information that was e-giving that was being given out on the website would be accurate to these parents. So then parents could actually indicate that they were interested in the camp camps, then had a member’s portal through the sea Iran that they could log into on dhe. Then camps could see which parents had indicated their interest. They could also now register for training events. They could basically take advantage of all the benefits that the was giving them. So by using simply 3 60 in this case, they were actually able to give both their member camps and the parents that they served better access to their own information to the information is in the system and better serve them with the programs that they have. Can anybody else site benefits to the those they’re serving constitutent people themselves? Well, maybe not people, but the environment. The what? I like Jakes. He didn’t say it, but he has one aboutthe texting. Oh, sure. So another organization I’ve worked with has they run programs for kids, toe, get kids out into the countryside for the summertime incredible organization on. And they they have bus loads of children that get on the buses at the Port Authority. But you work for me, work for any schools, or is this all play time for this is this is a thing. So what happened is I was in college in London and I found, became a counselor to summer camp, and that was it. Camp was like the rest of my life. I was obsessed with this. So this organization runs five summer camps, and the kid’s got on buses. They went out to the countryside, but then, when the buses came home There was often this situation where parents might be late to pick up their children or they didn’t know exactly when the buses would arrive. Maybe the buses would come early. And so, by using a program, Sierra and we suddenly had this ability to send out mass text messages. Two parents, as the buses were sort of a narrow waves. Often, arroway whatever and say, Hey, just so you know, your child’s on their way home, Can’t wait to see you. Please make sure your at this place at this time and that we hadn’t even anticipated that this could be something we could do with a program. Xero. So what we actually talked about in our in our session was this idea that there are sometimes these unexpected benefits as well on dhe. This was a great one for us. Yeah, you’ve been You’ve been listening for a while. You have a question, But you have a question you like to ask. Oh, okay. You know what? I’m gonna shut you out. What’s your name? Joanne. Joint. Crabtree joined Crabtree from Washington from Washington non-profits in Vancouver, Washington State of Washington. So Joanne missed a session not just for fund-raising anymore managing programs with the arm zsystems and came here to listen to this. 30 minutes, 30 minutes. Short version. Thank you, Joanne. Thank you very much. Check out non-profit radio. We have way. Have lots of good panels. Not This isn’t the only one we do lots of good stuff. Thank you, Joanne. Okay, Um, we just have Yeah, okay. Anybody else want to shout out? Ah, a constituent benefit. Because I think that we’re here for the people or the environment or the animals. We’re, you know, we’re serving anybody else Want to shout out a constituent benefit, but has to be in, like, 30 seconds? Okay, Get much closer in one of the organizations that I worked with the program data and fund-raising data was separated on the program. Later was once we combined the two systems and brought the program later into the CIA room along with the fund-raising data, it’s suddenly help. The organization will stop, get along with each other much better, because previously, there was a lot of this manual data exchange between the two teams and the teens were frustrated, like concentrated, questing and not receiving the data that they want benefit not only to the recipients, but to the provider’s as well. All right, we got to leave it there. Thank you so much. Thanks, Tony. Oh, my pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you’re welcome. They are Jake Grinstead, founder of simply 3 60 Leah kopperman, director of data. And see our Emmett Cash Guy Williams, executive director of the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council. And Mitya Nadal, principal at Top Cloud Consulting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 NTC. Thank you, Joanne. Joanne Crawford. Thank you. Are our audience member for the panel. And of course, all our panels are brought to you by our partners. That act blew in while we’re here in 1990 Sea ActBlue free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us. Need to take a break. See how Sam gave me the proper proper See when I get good support, the show runs. If I could just get decent support from everyone, we need to take a break. Oh, I said that host sucks. Cougar Mountain software, Cougar Mountain software quote We use Denali Fund for non-profits. It’s easy to track how much is in each fund fairly simple to use, and the training to be helped the training to be very helpful. I need an intern so bad, so I have somebody to blame for this ship. Copy. It’s unbelievable, and the training is very helpful and thorough. Customer service has been responsive and caring. End quote. That’s Laurie D. Oh, God, Lord, he’s from a church. I’m sorry. I don’t know if Laurie Listen, Um, another quote. All the features of a sophisticated fund accounting system at a reasonable cost. End. Quote. That’s Kim T. From Lawrence Township Cookie Mountain software. That’s what this is all about. They have a free 60 day trial. You’ll find that on the list in our landing page at tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now time for Tony’s Take two living trusts. You start your plan giving program with charitable bequests. That’s definitely the place to start. You’ve heard that mantra many times from my lips. If you want to go further and you don’t have to, you could just stop with requests and have a very respectable, planned giving program. But if you want to go further living trusts or revocable living trust. That’s an excellent next step. It’s easy for everybody to understand, for you and for your donors. My Living Trust video is at tony martignetti dot com, and that is Tony’s Take two. Let’s do a live listener love update since we did it early Now more people have checked in Ann Arbor, Michigan is with us. New York, New York, New York. See, I’m sorry you can’t be in Hell’s Kitchen in New York, New York If you were in Hell’s Kitchen, you would have got you. We got shouted out as Hell’s Kitchen, but you’re elsewhere. Just New York, New York. But glad you’re with us. Live, love to you. And also Osaka, Japan, Japan. Checking in. Thank you, Konnichi wa and young son, South Korea. On your haserot comes a ham Nida. Thank you for joining us Live love to all of our live listeners. And now it’s time for Cole earning for your programs. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 1990. See, that’s 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. We are in the Convention Center in Portland, Oregon. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me Now our Deborah askanase, Latika Phillips and Kevin Martin. Seated next to me is Debra. She’s the social impact manager for capacity building programs at Oracle. That Sweet Shikha is a program manager at NGO Source and grantmaker. Success four. NGO Source and grantmaker maker Success at Tech Soup, NGO Source and Kevin Martone is technology program manager at Jay Camp 1 80 a program of the Harold Grinspoon Foundation that was the longest I’m out of breath already with dellaccio sources into Kevin is a program, but he’s not the foundation, but he’s a program Oracle Met Suites. Two words. I’m exhausted already. Introductions. OK, your program topic was Reinvigorate your programs through multi directional learning. Let’s start with down the end. Kevin Martin, Please let’s define our terms. What are we talking about? This multi directional learning? Great. So Avery jargon e-giving drug in jail on non-profit radio. It will get the three of you out of jail in our session. We definitely We started pretty early explaining what that actually meant. So Okay, so I’m not the only one I know So So, um, really, the the session in this topic is really about his, you know, Traditionally, sessions are one way there’s someone on stage, whether it’s a lecture or in a webinar or some other training’s environment, who all the knowledge is going from that person who’s the expert to the audience. The learner, right? So multi directional is. I’m not assuming that that person has all the knowledge in the room that instead you’re embracing the fact that everyone in a training program has knowledge and expertise. And so you have learning from learning toe Lerner, Lerner, the teacher and teachers. So it’s all different direction, really, So So can I expect to pay less for conferences in the future. And I’m part of the training staff. I should be Compton right Free hotel E. Get free airfare. Compton. That would be good. I’m teaching. I’m in the audience, so it’s still hard work. It’s hard work. Thio create facilitated session that does multi directional, But I’m in the audience. I gotta work hard too. I should be to learning more my voice just alright, theoretical. I’m learning more. All right. Um, Jessica, why don’t you help us? Uh, bring us into the topic little bit. Give it like a headline in the lead. So why we needed this session? Well, we definitely needed the session. I think that it’s time to begin the show organizations how how to turn traditional events into something that is Maur engaging something on opportunity for everyone to contribute to these different solutions. And I was needed for organizations non-profit or for-profit. But I was as to be a part of it because I attended two different multidirectional events through next week. Oracle build a thon events of four NGO sores and in that in those opportunities for me because they were multidirectional and because it wasn’t just someone just giving me information. Given my team information for us to download and and to turn around and apply, I was actually with a team of people I was learning at the same time they were learning, and my goal throughout this whole process was to basically eliminate the time or decrease the time living in time. But decrease the time that I was spending on a billing for NGO source. And when I started this process, it took me over 30 hours a month. So process building for our team. And because of the multi directional opportunities with nets with Oracle, I’ve been able to get down my building process to less than 10 hours. Now, had I been in just a one on one session with another person, it probably would have taken me a lot longer to get to where I am now. But we had we working in teams, and so we’re all learning we were all contributing to this process. So that’s how that’s how I see it working. And I think that if we begin to we non-profits begins to look at what we’re considering. Traditional events, for instance, Webinars and think of ways that how we can actually turn those upside down to have Maur engagement to have more involvement from everyone. One. Okay, Debra, um, this sounds to me like anarchy. Why not? Why not gonna be a free for all? Well, trouble, trouble. It always sounds like gold, but it isn’t. The session was designed with the belief that everybody in the room has the answers. Right. So you walk into whatever you’re designing, whatever programmer event you’re designing with this theory that at the end of it, everyone’s experience is so much more enriched because his answers aren’t coming from the quote unquote experts. They’re coming from the people who are also doing the work out in the field or living the experience. And they have just as much validity with what they have to share as others. So a good facilitator. You have more of a facility, Kevin. Kevin was getting to this. You have more of a facilitator than a presenter. There can be some presentation elements. Like a good facilitator has figured out how to make the experience a shared facilitated latto next-gen facilitate these. I have facilitated you. Have you facilitated or just attend? Have Kevin Martin still three facilitators here? Well, as well as attendees in Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I’m focused on. Yeah, one step at a time. I know. I just stands multiple. We all can learn from each other and you multi directional. All right, is co learning the Is that just a synonym for multi directional or is co learning something different? Anybody? I would say it’s elearning. It’s similar. Um, so yeah. All right, so we’re expanding the idea of who’s the present? We’re gonna learn from elearning elearning for everybody. Um, the advantages. I made them clear. We all have something to contribute. Not only the person on the lectern, but we all Okay, so should we talk about how to organize your next staff training? That’s so so that so that it can be co directional slash multi directional slash red, amber green. Kind of learning. I don’t know what traffic lights. No way. Like our next staff training. So I remember our wedding too small and midsize non-profits. That could be just two people. They’re called learning all the time, but let’s say it’s university. Some Let’s colleges, universities, hospitals call mid size. They’re doing lots of staff trainings. They have faculty meetings. They have dr meetings. They have, uh, other provider meetings. Learnings. Training’s right in service. We can We can use this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. At our session, we actually have people to read is I’m just nothing. All right. Even though I suppose the, uh but all right, I’m stuck in the old model like I’m a dinosaur. I mean, an anachronism. Um, the person at the I’m gonna put in health care setting. But the person on stage has her master’s degree in nursing degree. She has a master’s degree in nursing. She’s got an MBA, and staff is all you know. They’re the B s ends and the R ends. No masters degrees. We still should not all be learning from the person with the MBA and the Russian downstage. And we should also be we not all should be learning from the person with the MBA and the master degree in nursing. Doesn’t she have the most into a part in the room where we’re just all a bunch of B s ends and our ends? I would say that well, number one, there is still a place for the traditional, right? There’s gonna be times where somebody is the expert who’s coming in, and the goal of that session is to get their knowledge to other people. But in the example that you just gave, those are ends who were in the crowd they have experienced in the field. And so some of that experience might be helpful to add to what the expert is saying may potentially in more theory, where’s they have more on the ground experience so they can share that with each other and with the presenter. And like never says that enriches everyone’s now the thing that was a bad example. Also that ahead of the training right, there’s this belief. The expert often has the belief of what the people in the audience want to learn. And so there’s work ahead of the training, with Cole earning as well where you can ask people. Well, what would you like to be happening in the training? And what would you like to get out of the training? And I believe that’s a piece of it, too. That’s multidirectional where that their their direction is coming from their audience. Okay, okay, let’s start with Jessica because it’s been a while since you got a chance, Doc. So we’re going to set up this staff in service training? Um, let’s keep it in the health care vicinity. What we wear. Deborah’s just saying lead. There’s lead time preparation time. How do we get started setting up our next staff training this way? Um, great question. And we did talk about this in our session I raised for I feel like for great points. Okay, They were they were not ego problem. It’s good thing we stuck you in the middle. So s so to get started. My recommendation was the number one. It’s the first of all. Think of the roadblocks. What roadblocks do you think? Well, actually, let me if I can rewind just a bit, I’d say that the number one step would be to discuss what is the goal? What is the overall world coming together? What is what do we want to get out of this? Okay. And then from from that, then start to think about what are some of the roadblocks that would actually hinder us from turning this traditional event into a multi directional. What are some potential role blocks? And then I said that we need to think about the time, the time. That is gonna the time that is going to take for this to happen. What are the time restrictions for this? What time needs to be invested in the beginning? Because I know. And for me, when I participated in the opportunities with Oracle Net suite, there was so much time invested into our team beforehand. I mean, at least 10 hours, and so that’s something to think about. You know? Are you willing to invest that time and then distributing that, distributing those responsibilities? And then I say that we need to think about what are some of the disadvantages actually of flipping and event, because there could be, You know, as Kevin said, there is definitely still a place for those traditional events. So we have to think about that. And then, of course, what are some of the advantages? So I think once you map out those four things in addition to the goal, I think that’s definitely a great a great start. So in the instance where we are having a you said, that’s a staff meeting and we’re gonna have something. So then again identify what is the goal? What are we trying to learn? And then, I think, identify people within the community who have some experience in that they may not be an expert, so to speak, but they have a lot of experience, and so I think that that’s also helpful. And then there. I think that it’s also helpful to have people who may not necessarily have hands on experience, but they do have some knowledge of what we’re talking about, because then they also have, uh, some, you know, they’re able to make some type of contribution. Okay. Okay. Uh, Debra, what are what are some of the potential roadblocks that mentioned might exist? Thio Converting your training thio, multi directional, multi directional multidirectional. Debating what the training is, of course, will be different road blocks ahead of time. There’s the time that you put into it by redesigning, rethinking, getting out of your space that you’re used to thinking about. I think that’s hard. It’s also it can be challenging to get buy-in from your organization for this new kind of not only just programming event, think about like a fundraiser that you’re having. How would you incorporate it multidirectional in that If there’s a near some training element of that, it can be challenging to get some buy-in. The other roadblocks that ah, that could happen is so you have the multi directional training and it turns out the other directions are not so interested in contributing right. What happens then? I think that that’s very real. That has never actually been my experience Does That has never actually happened. But you do have sometimes less participation than you would desire. For example, time for our last break turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories and get media attention on those stories, as well as build support for your work for your mission. They do media relations, content marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. There a turn hyphen to dot CEO. Finally, a sponsor message that was uneventful. Chase got butt loads more time for Cole earning for your programs. I want it. Well, I’m gonna go to Kevin and I want to talk about some of the crew’s some of the advantages of doing this aside from what we’ve already identified a few times, everybody learning from everybody else. And there’s so many different perspectives in the audience, and we bring all those perspectives in What are there other psycho social advantages that we haven’t talked about? Whatever. I mean, I would say things you just talked about are the main advantages. But I know those are off the table. Yeah, so for in terms of our attentions fan, I think I know leaving a lot of sessions and helping with managing conference conferences. Phones come out pretty early in a lecture. And so, by having these multi directional options where you stop speaking from the stage and you give everybody option the top talk and share it gets them back engaged in the energy level gets up often in the session. That seems to be the other big. Yeah, I could see different voices. I mean, I know when I speak, I have not done go learning, of course. Not sure that I ever will. But big ego ego problems, you know, But, um, irrespective. So what I’ve done so far, You know, I noticed attention perks up when I start asking questions. I started asking, and I don’t I don’t like to leave questions till the end. I take questions. So I guess I should say, When I start accepting questions, people start raising their hands. There’s different voice, you know? Said, Let’s start popping up the other. The other half of the audience wakes up, you know, I’ve got results to speak of it. That was funny. Labbate would have to sleep off the street. Nobody, nobody, nobody Just take it seriously. I probably I could see I think that is true. I could see that. At least they weren’t using their phones way. You know, I just point I do see voices or, you know, people broke up with other voices are heard throughout the room in questions. Yes. We’re gonna mention think about the traditional weapon off. Right. And you were right. And you can see your analytics. Where, like, Oh, look at all these people. They’re not Actually. Live your weapon on what you can’t say. You can see. So if you can think of turning the webinar upside down dafs multidirectional learning, I suspect the engagement will go away. Okay. Okay. Um, time limits time. Need other Latika. Talk about that. Okay, let’s let’s go to That’s our preparation. So where do we go now? It’s a day off. Are we in day of way. You know what? There was one thing some, uh mentioned pulling. You talk about pulling in advance, finding not only what you want to learn, but whether whether people will participate, can you? Let’s talk about how do you find out whether people will actually participate? So you don’t end up one U unit directional when it’s you intended go. Directional defendant Multi direct depends on what it is for the build with on events that we run, for example, we make it really clear. First of all, we assign a team captain on the net sweet side. And then we assign a point of contact on the non-profit side. And we say at the end of this event, you will have to present not the employees but the actual non-profit customers so that they present their learnings to the other customers and we sort of designed the day. So there are no surprises. It’s really clear this is what’s going to happen if you’re participating in it. And so I think you complain. I mean it that way, where everybody walks in with a showed expectation of what’s gonna happen. Okay, Okay. I was envisioning an event that’s different where it’s not all everybody presents at the end. But we’re the role learning from each other during Kevin run by an event like that can happen. Okay, How do you make sure that audience members are gonna participate in the way I just described? I think I mean, it’s well liked. Ever said it’s definitely part of its preparation. So like there’s actually a book called The Art of Gathering by Preah Parker. And she talks about the meeting or the training or whatever the gathering is. Starts as soon as you invite someone and yours should be spending time preparing them to let them know So, for example, there’s a there’s a communications training that I do. And in one of the first communications I have with any of those participants, I asked them to send a photo of themselves. And I’m very clear. I’m saying, when we do webinars when that photo shows up, that means you have to speak. And so it’s like you’re gonna get called on. And so it’s sort of prepping them to say It’s not just me talking. You have to be ready. T share your experience. And so there’s little steps like that you could do in advance to just prime them for when they get there that they’re gonna be speaking and not just listening. Okay, Okay, what do you do? Anything. Anything different in terms of preparing the audience? E. I think that it’s also good to identify everyone’s role. So if we are looking at the model that we’ve talked about teacher, teacher, the Lerner, Lerner, the teacher and learn it’s a learner. But even within that, I think that rolls should be defined for day of plain that a little bit. So when we participated in the build a thon, it was very important for us. Well, for me, toe have a note taker. There was so much information being exchanged, and it was just impossible to gather information to retain it and also apply it all at the same time. So there was one person that we designated to be one that was actually documentation. So that way, when we leave, we have steps. We have everything documented for the future and to move forward. And I also think that it’s important to identify who is actually going to be. If it’s if it’s an event set up where you can actually begin to apply and move forward with action steps at that time, that I think it’s important to have who is going to be that person? Luckily, we were able during the building down to actually go live with a lot of the different things that we were building, you know, we didn’t have to wait for testing. We were able to go live with that. But it was important to identify who was gonna be that person. Also, to identify who’s going to be in charge of accountability and follow-up. Because once we leave here, then then what happened? So it’s important to know what the next steps are. And did this actually work? Was this really beneficial? And it’s hard to really? Well, I was going to say it’s hard to tell day of for me. I I knew at that that day of the building time that this was very beneficial for my team. I just knew it. But you actually really see the results weeks and months after the fact. So the follow-up is very important. So just identifying rolls and who’s doing what, even though we’re all learning and we all have the answers. But then how else are we contributing here? All right, all right. So we go to a day off now. Okay. Let you go. Stay with you. What? What is this? What does it look like? Day off is It’s like this is the room, like, start with the room. Is it set up the same way with a traditional seminars. Yes, it set up the same way it could actually be set up in and broken off into groups that I don’t really think that there is a right or wrong way to set up something like that. I think that if it is set up in a traditional, for instance, classroom style or meeting south, I think that you can also even incorporated a workshop section where people actually kind of break off. So I think that that’s fine. I don’t think that the way that this set up is that Okay, that was a question. Well, it was interesting to me. I’m a newcomer. Yeah. In our session, they were in the traditional meeting style set up. And when we asked them to do some of the breakout work, right, the co learning, we thought we said, Turn to the person next to you. We said sorry. Away from the like, turn to the person next to you. And instead they all said, Well, can we just get up in form groups based on what we want to talk about? And they did. Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, anarchy way. Well, let’s just go with it. Well, yeah. Community wants it. We’re supposed to hold it. It’s supposed to be supposed to be learner, too. What did you say? Audience to learn a teacher. I was wondering if you’d said no. You lose all your bona, fide, all your credibility Credibility. Yeah. No, it was so much fun, to be honest, I don’t know. I’m lecturing. We’re doing it my way. Um, okay. What else? What else do you want to go, Debra Day of? Tell me about what they have. Looks like we still got a few more minutes. Why don’t you want to give me a model? Work with her? You wouldn’t listen. General Health care. Mom, Your healthcare mind your model. Our nurses, nurses training day on on infection prevention, post surgery. So a couple of key pieces start with sending expectations. Make sure you have different voices the day off, and then make sure that there’s time built in for the teacher. Loner, loner, loner, loner, teacher. Right. So if you start with setting the expectations that setting up the room at the beginning, what’s gonna happen is structured time now, as Lucia was describing. But is it always where there’s structured time for the cold learning or you can’t just raise your hand and say, I have a point that I had used my downstage hand again. I have a point that, uh, that I want to make to the group. It doesn’t work like that. I think that’s informal elearning if you want to set it up for sort of formalized elearning that I do think we need some structure. Okay, Yeah. And so once you set up the day and then perhaps you’ve set the stage for what is actually gonna happen. So maybe there is a little bit of a training for 15 minutes. In the beginning, that’s like, this is the information you have to know. And then and then the important pieces. Well, how are you going to take that and add to it by the goodness of the intelligence of the people in the audience? And you have to build. You have to bake that in in some way, whether it’s an activity and there’s lots of great books on, like how to plan these kinds of activities where people learn from each other, um, or whether it’s an ideation exercise right and people spitball ideas. And then they turn to each other and talk about them. And then they iterated again, whatever it is. So that’s their learning from each other. And then at the end of the day, there has to be some way in which the learning is consolidated. So there’s the learning, Frito, that happens, happen stance in different groups. But then they have to learn from each other. Like, how did the groups each develop? And how did they exchange of information with each other? So you have to You just have to organize it. Facilitated is there Is there a resource that you gave out or that we can refer people to their white paper? Awesome, Reese. Okay, what is it? Tell us. Where can we find I? Actually, the first name that I can’t That was the multi multi directional bingo card. Okay, I know. It’s just basically a It’s a chart. And we, um we list 88 different traditional events, and then we have every every dynamic teacher to learn a learn a teacher Lerner, Lerner and so in the chart, the goal was to have the participants took him. Plead how feels different exchanges are happening for each one of these different traditional events. And so, yeah, we do wear working. Listeners find that it’s on. It’s in the collaborative, knows that it is in the collaborative notes. So you go to end 10 dot or GE go to the euro in the 19 multi-channel half, and then you know you’re well, we’re in 1980 CEO, and then your your session hash tag is multi path. Okay? And that’s where this resource is. That bingo card called a bingo card anymore. It doesn’t look like you find only because we were using that as our as our game as I workshop piece help the because depends to begin to start rebuilding their events. All right, we’re gonna leave it there. We’ve identified the resource. We’ve defined what the anarchy looks like. So I encourage you do not have the ego that I have and actually attempt this. Try this because we can all learn from each other. You couldn’t learn from each other. There wouldn’t be podcasts. That’s what much Give your altro out your outro. Deborah askanase, seated next to me is social impact Manager for capacity building programs. at Oracle Net. Sweet Machiko Phillips, his program manager for NGO source and grantmaker success at Tech Soup, NGO Source and Kevin Martin is the technology program manager for Jay Camp 1 80 which is a program of the Harold Grinspoon Foundation. Thank you so much, Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks to you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 NTC. All are 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact Thanks for being with us next week. Another good one. No firings. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com Responsive by Wagner c. P A is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com by Cougar Mountain Software The Knowledge E fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profit tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. 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