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Nonprofit Radio for February 16, 2018: Build Your Grantmaker Relationships

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My Guests:

Amy Berman, Caitlin Mitchell, Daniel Werner, Anthony Sanchez & Christine Kang: Build Your Grantmaker Relationships

Our panel of grantmakers and a grantee reveals savvy strategies for building and maintaining relationships with your institutional funders. Foundations are made of people. How do you get close to them? This is a panel I moderated at The Foundation Center in New York City.

 

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on the aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d turn probono genic if you got under my skin with the idea that you missed today’s show, build your grantmaker relationships, our panel of grantmaker tze and a grantee reveal strategies for building and maintaining relationships with your institutional funders. Foundations are made of people. How do you get close to them? This’s a panel i moderated at the foundation center in new york city. Tony take two show you love, we’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing radio and by weinger cpas guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream tony dahna may slash tony tell us, here’s the beginning of build your grantmaker relationships, we’re here to talk about collaboration and impact, collaborate and impact, and our panel today is going to focus in the collaboration we’re gonna be talking about the relationship, building of collaboration, that aspect of collaboration between non-profits and the funders. All right, most of you are in non-profits potential grantees, and most of our panel are the funders. So i have maybe admonished, is too strong a word, but i have urged them to keep their advice, you know, relevant for potential grantees. How can each of you, in your non-profits collaborate, build relationships with potential funders, and even even when even when you get a no from a funder? What can you do after that? Our concern is that. This is scene is proceeding to transactional. It shouldn’t be transactional, your relationship with potential grant oars. Potential funders can be parallel to the work that you do in individual fund-raising in each of your individual programs, because funders, air made up institutions are made up of people, and we know people fund. So how can you build the relationship, keep the relationship strong, even in the face of a rejection, and thereby collaborate with your potential funders, which hopefully will become your funders? It’s. My real pleasure to introduce our winning panel of beginning with your on your left is caitlin mitchell. Caitlyn is a program and evaluation officer with empower the emerging markets foundation. Their work is around at risk youth in emerging markets in colombia, mexico and south africa. Next. Moving to your right. Dan werner. Stan is social justice program associate with the darkest foundation. Their priority is lgbt social justice, and we have amy berman she’s, senior program officer at the john john, a hartford foundation. And their work is around improving, improving the health of older adults. Christine can associate program manager at project sunshine. She he is our soul panelists who is among you apart, part of the non-profit five oh, one c three community, and their work at project sunshine is direct support to pediatric patients and their families, and anthony sanchez welcome. Anthony is corporate social responsibility manager at american express. They’re three priorities around csr, or preserving historic places, developing new leaders and encouraging community service. Each of their fuller bios is outside. Please, sze, give a warm welcome teo title, please. Now important to know about about christine and anthony, they’re actually they could be holding hands hyre american express that americans press is funding projects sunshine so we brought we brought to the panel one team that is actively collaborating, right? So keeping with you know what? I i, uh, i said is our purpose today we’re going to talk about relationship building, so i’m going, i’m going start with the most basic basic question means we’ll start with caitlin, um, creating strong relationships with funders again, for our, for our audience of small and midsize non-profits how could they what’s one or two ideas that come to mind about creating that strong relationship at the outset at the beginning of a potential relationship? One unique thing about power is that we strive to and have the opportunity to fund an organization for up to ten years, and i say that because when we enter a collaboration with new organization, um, there is not the idea that the organization is going to do everything perfectly, but there are a few characteristics that are really important to us. The first i would say is just honest communication, i’ve had a number of grantees over it’s inevitable that you will have adversity, that something won’t go well go won’t go as planned, and as a program officer in charge of managing our relationship, the most helpful thing to me and the kind of like star grantees versus ones that are a bit more difficult, we want to be star granted, yes are just goes who communicate, explain that, you know, there are delays in the project, often most of the time, for a very legitimate reasons. And in addition to that not only say, you know, unfortunately, caitlyn there’s been a delay, or we weren’t able to do this activity, but also have already problem solved around how to either overcome that challenge and or a different activity. So one grantee in oaxaca, mexico, thie end of their year long program, which was a leadership training for a group of twenty young people, was to take them to mexico city. These are young people who had never really been out of the way municipality in which they lived in right before, a few weeks before they were supposed to go to mexico city, there was extreme violence in their community and a lot of parents rescinded the permission for their young people or their their children to go, so six of eighteen that were planned to go. We’re able to go to mexico city, and that would be a big sort of, like what’s going on. Um, but when they approached me, they said, listen, only six of eighteen could make it. We still went on the trip, they still did all the activities, and we did a camping weekend closer to the community in which they live. They live where sixteen of eighteen were able to participate. We still went through the leadership training. We had hoped for the themes, the bonding that took place, and they still had that sort of new and broadening horizons experience. And then we’re gonna have a chance to talk about some examples, okay? Of impact. We’ll definitely get to that. Cool. So yeah, basically, it sounds like you’re suggesting honesty. If there’s if there’s tribulations if there’s trouble, let your funder no. Yes, much work inside, i think. A non-profit radio i host this podcast. We gotta keep it to an hour. So we got a concise pursuing the field guide for data driven. Fund-raising it’s, the latest resource on the listener landing page tony dahna slash pursuing radio there’s so much data available it’s overload just just the data that you already have these can be overwhelming makes me think of ah howard on network i’m mad as hell, and i’m not going to take it anymore. So much data. The field guide makes your data less daunting talk talk, howard down. This is what’s in it. Five high level steps so you can translate your business objectives into actionable steps. Ah, real world case studies showing you how other non-profits are using data to achieve their fund-raising goals and a worksheet for ah, conversation and thought creation to help your team find the right focus. It’s the field guide for data driven fund-raising tory dahna em a slash pursuant radio. Now back to build your grantmaker relationships. Then what? Aside from no being honest about potential problems, adversity? What else? What else can we do again? Looking to try to look at the outset. Wait! We don’t even have a relationship yet. It’s up to you. But early on at least no that’s. Great. And i was echo exactly what was just said i would also say from the outset you’re a new grantee and speaking from from position the foundation right work and some of the other foundations that we partner with, uh, i want this speaker anything but a new grantee is ah, in a new amazing relationship that your program officers excited about, and the foundation is excited about. Another dynamic within foundations is to not, um, overbear helicopter in and try toe add too much burden onto the grantee because we know that your work is paramount and we don’t wantto sit there and constantly be asking for you for updates because we know that you’ll probably be sending that in a report, so i’d say take the onus and agency to reach out to us and share updates in the interim we love when we get interim updates if you’re and i’ll keep it quick with this story, we have a grand t out in the rural area of california and the rural areas of california have more of ah sabat kind of economic climate of the us south it’s not all l a and the bay area we get updates about winds that they get at the local school board level and within the local court systems, and we love hearing those stories and we share them throughout our foundation on it goes all the way to the board level, so i would just say, be open and honest with us on dh feel free to reach out don’t think there that they’re the big foundation black box, and we will send a move. Port leader? Yeah, awesome open honesty and even reporting when it’s not required. Correct, right? You’re welcome. You’re welcome those okay, geever, by the way, let me also just remind each of you. If you don’t have the mic, you can still speak. You’ll be hurt by this. This fancy omni directional. So no, you’re welcome. You should have it. Yeah, but if you if you, uh, you know, make some quick or something, you’ll be hurt. Okay? So keep it clean because it’s gonna be it’s gonna be heard. It’s gonna be preserved, please. Amy berman. What? I advice for them. Oh, that starting that relationship real strong. So i’m going to go go to before you’re even a grantee. Andi, i agree with everything that i’ve heard so far, but before you’re a grantee, this is your opportunity to really understand who it is you’re going to be meeting with and you should be meeting with with the foundation that you want, teo get to know or go to an event where you know that they’re going to be and you should know enough about number one, their mission kind of grants that they do, because when you talk about the work that you want todo, it has to fit within the strategy of that foundation. But i’ll tell you even more than that, you need to look at the language on that website. So you know you’ve heard some hints here you’ve heard, you know, words like workforce or words like social justice, use those words in describing what you do if you were work, relates to that area, convey what you dio and what your interests are within that kind of language and context that will make it easier for you and the person that you’re meeting with, sometimes for the first time to see where the fit iss now, maybe the person is going to get where the fit is without you having done your homework, but it’s your job to really make that fit a parent so doing your homework in advance is really helpful. And one thing that i would suggest the first time that you meet with the foundation don’t hit an idea because that one idea may be the thing that is not within what they khun d’oh, let them get to know you and the range of things that you d’oh that will be the best entry. And one of the biggest mistakes that people make is they come in with a very specific pitch and there are other things that we then didn’t get to talk about and that’s the thing that would have been the right fit. Are you starting to hear the parallel between your individual giving and your potential institutional funding? Who goes into a meeting first meeting with a potential donor and solicit it doesn’t happen you get you have to get to know them. Amy’s, amy’s advising not only do your research, but very well your first meeting ought not be the pitch and again parallel with your similar to the work you’re doing in the individual fund-raising it’s kind of like asking something you’d marry. You on the way here, it’s, not really a smoker talking that’s where i’m going wrong. I realize that now fifty five years to hear that christine, please. So i’m for our relationship with american express and then other relationships. What we’ve learned is to is and i think why we’ve been so successful, is that as a non-profit we take, we tried really hard to understand the funder. So and previously i actually was at a foundation, so i kind of have both lenses too, but it’s so it’s exciting to have the two perspectives. But i think it’s sometimes you just need to think of funders as though they have all of this money and power, some just going to go in and they must be able to do x y and z i think there’s a lot of assumptions and and expectations that come with that relationship. But you think about the relationship from the point of view of how can i be helpful? What is thie funder going through? How can i? How can we make their lives easier while also maximizing our impact? So it’s not just about i need this from younger i want to get x get why, but okay, work. How can we create a conversation around? So for us at project sunshine, we focus on pediatric health care, so we always start with the child in mind. But we can’t do the work we’re doing without our amazing partners are funders, our corporate partners. And so while making sure that they understand our mission and the work we’re doing to ask them, okay, so that how can we make your life easier? So i think starting from that and doesn’t that sound like something you would ask? Maybe not in those exact words, but parallel again in your individual fund-raising what? What is it about your work? What is it? I’m sorry. What is it about our work that interest you that motivates you? That moves you back-up and what’s. You know, in terms of suggestion, how can we make your life easier? Are there different methods of giving that we could talk about? Maybe a plan to give to makes more sense for you? Maybe it’s structured over a period of years. It’s a one time outright gift. Maybe it’s a gift of something other than cash. Gift in-kind someone some other kind of asset. So, you know, again the suggestion, how can we make your life easier? You’re always thinking about how you can help your donors to make gifts to you. You see these parallels? Upleaf so just to add what toe what christine said, i think it’s important to set expectations, right? So on the corporate side, i mean, most csr teams in a corporation is probably a group of six to eight people at american express it’s a it’s, a team of ten, and we’re basically responsible for engaging over fifty thousand employees so it’s hard to do that, right? So we look for partners who can help us, we can help them with their objectives and to, you know, help with their mission. But on the other hand, we also expect them to engage our volunteers, right? So setting that expectation is important because it’s a win win situation, so we’re helping the non-profit achieve their goals, but we’re also engaging our volunteers, i think setting an expectation up front, it’s super helpful and your collaboration involves a lot of volunteer work out of service work by american express employees. We’re gonna get to that. That grants aren’t only in the form of money, by any means. Let’s. Open it up. Now we’re gonna come back, come to questions periodically through throughout time together. How about questions on this initial round of hi? Um, i was wondering how open funders are, too, like meeting new people, like cold calls, you know, email or phone call, like, how approachable would you say you are, how open to new relationships? This is perfect, it’s. Exactly. We’re talking about what you know we’re the beginning phases of the relationship, how open or you to increase. Sounds like everybody has something, say, uh, good, michael. So on. It’s it’s. Really important that’s a big part of my job. I’m constantly meeting people you know, my area is around aging it’s around care of older adults, so i am on the road as a national thunder. I’m on the road, probably almost every week. I am going and meeting with people. They have very easy access to may. Um, if people are committing their life for doing this work, i’m committing my life toward them, because my foundation’s mission is to do this a swell, so i’m completely accessible. Damn! Yeah, i would. I would say that in our experience, we are one of the largest lgbt thunders, so we get a lot of requests from us based global funders well from us based organizations, and we similarly only have a team of of six or so, so we just don’t have the band with and one of the one of the things i hate about my job is knowing that me, me and my team really don’t have the band with even though are you? We have open initial funding, concept submission so anyone can send them in. We all do look at them, but we don’t have the bandwidth to have that special touch and tell people. Oh, but this local foundation in seattle area is doing x y z, so? So i would say, just keep at people, find out where those funders in those spaces go, when we attend conferences and other things, you catch people in a different mindset, they’re not running the meetings, they’re not doing their grantwriting up, so i would say catching people in different spaces as opposed to the cold call is one avenue you could you could employ kayman and i would just say it’s a both a do innit don’t is because in power we are open to hearing from from perspective organizations, but do your homework ahead of time and make sure so empower supports work in fifteen emerging market countries. We say that on our website we list the country’s make sure it’s a country that you work in is one that we support uh, we support work with at risk youth ages ten to twenty four if you’re working with the elderly or with children were not the right organization. So in general, as dan was saying, we tried to respect our grand thi’s time, and hopefully the idea would be that then sitting organizations or are granted partners will also do their part too respect our time and something about you that initial really agree with that. Obviously, like i mentioned before, it’s very hard, teo, you know, answer every email, answer every inquiry, so doing research, i think our website is really good at providing as tony mentioned, we support three different pillars, but it it it’s a good place to start because it provides a list ofthe sample projects that we’ve supported there’s. Also an eligibility quiz. So going back to what hates that it it helps you figure out whether it would be a good match or not, because through that eligibility quiz, you know, if you were to select, you know, you’re in a place like arkansas, where we don’t have a large and employee base, that probably wouldn’t be a match because we like to support organizations in specific regions, especially you know, where we have a large employee headcount and and, you know, our biggest market, so doing research is super important. Yeah, so you’ve heard this a couple times now. So what do we do on the individual side? Oppcoll prospect research? You got to do it on the institutional side to you don’t want to embarrass yourself. Bye let’s say failing to send a letter of inquiry if that’s part of the that’s the first step, that latto dahna funder once no, so don’t miss step by not doing your research let’s move the relationship on a little bit now we’re not we’re not the inquiry stage. We’re not at the opening stage now. We’re funding. We are your hyre you’ve selected granted, how can we keep? The relationship strong now we already heard report when it’s not necessary. Keep us involved now some steel you can’t beat your idea. You gotta come with multiple ideas. That’s, why you’re here way also hurt. Share, adversity, tribulations, difficulties along the way. What other advice? Again? Keeping the relationship strong now that we are funded, uh, who wants to anybody could start. Okay, um one one thing that could be a challenge, but i think is also easy to find a potential volunteer for that really makes a difference for us is around honestly high quality pictures of the work that you’re doing if you have a really active social media page. And the reason is that we are not an endowed foundation. So we report to our donors about the work that we’re supporting and it’s really helpful. And unfortunately, some of the grand teeth like it featured the most are those that have really great documentation of their own world. So not every organization can can hyre it’s owned photographer that’s for sure. But i think that’s a good news that may be a volunteer who wants to come learn more about your program if they have. You know, photography skills could be a really great way just just yeah, raise awareness about the work that you’re doing and can i suggest that maybe it doesn’t always doesn’t have to be high production value to be moving and show impact? I’ve seen cases where hyre people who are benefiting from the organizations work? Do you sell do selfie videos and, you know, with some really simple editing tools that could be really compelling, so, you know, they might go on for twelve minutes or so that’s too long, but no, i guess the point is doesn’t have to be high production value necessarily two to convey impacts are so use your social media. Obviously we all know how important video is, how compelling that could be storytelling through pictures as well. Latto you know, let them let them know what the work is that they’re paying for. Please, dad, no, no on b we’ll keep it quick might sound very simple, but i know when i was in very early in my career non-profit that didn’t have much of a development office capacity, um but now i know being on the other and how important make sure your thunders are on your email list, so when you stand out everything about programmatic buy-in aspects or big announcements that, you know, all of your funders are getting those updates that we could focus on your work and that way. Hyre the funders are also updated. Follow him on twitter follow your funders on twitter i mean, it sounds basic, but it might it might get overlooked. Uh, facebook, you know, fan their facebook page, etcetera, etcetera, dahna connect in ways other than what what they’re what they’re requirements are for, you know, quarterly or semiannual reporting or something, you know, connect beyond that again relationship building, right? You’re doing it on the individual side, do it on the institutional side as well. You got something. My name is amy, so you suffer i don’t feel like i’m sorry, okay, so the other thing is about your expectation for us and, you know, it’s important that you have an expectation for us. There are people there are foundations that, you know, everything kind of goes into a black box when when i’m developing a proposal, i actually work with the grantee on the development of that proposal, so i’ll edit it, it’s, not a black box, it’s an intentional, so once we’ve decided we’re going forward, it is a very intentional act, but once you have the grant, the other thing is to consider me as a part of the team, so include us and convene ings, invite us, we may or may not be able to go, but we also have the ability to write and speak. I’ve given congressional testimony on behalf of grantees. You know we are, we can provide you with more than just grantspace port, we can actually provide you with elbow ovaries. We can be helpful to you. We can even bring other funders to the tape. So the more you engage with us as a grantee, more helpful, i can be for you. Excellent examples. Excellent. Thank you, wantto latto. So i know we’ve been talking about social media and videos and high tech stuff, so when i think, though, that that’s very helpful, i think and think don’t know old fashioned is just a meet in person so far after me and i had breakfast today before we came here, and we try to make it a point to remember that for organizations, companies that there’s a person there that you’re talking to, who maybe just got married or so to also build a relationship around the person, not just the institution, i think yeah, as i said earlier, institutions are made up of people i mean, how how plainer can we make the comparisons tear into your individual fund-raising program it’s the same it’s the same strategy keeping keeping informs, inviting you invite your major donors to things, invite your institutional, you’re you’re funders like you said, they may or may not come, but the invitation should always be out there. They should be getting all your press all your tweets, etcetera can’t drive home in it. Let’s, take a break! Wagner cps this testimonial quote, this is my first year and we’re a growing non-profit wagner, cpas. Was completely attentive and gave the impression as if they were right next door when handling our review engagement. Even though we’re in a different state, they made me feel like we were the only client they had, and they were able to walk me through starting up our accounts to finishing our yearly statements. Nothing was too small of a task for them to handle, and they were always available for questions and concerns. The customer service was exceptional, which is a rarity these days and was greatly appreciated. I received great advice and guidance for better business practices from a professional, all while feeling supported and genuinely cared for in the process when your cpa’s really stands out as a partner and i could not be happier with the results. End quote, small cancer research non-profit here on the east coast, supported and genuinely cared for are they butlers, front desk clerks, nurses, first responders, many petty girls are they made her desire somalia’s are they bus boys? Are they airline pilots? Are flight attendants who used to be stewardesses? Remember same baizman when they were stewardesses, slight tennis now of the massage therapists, acupuncturists, nutrition coaches, rehab counselors none of the above they’re wagner, cps, humble weinger cps more than cpas, trusted advisors, you know, they get to know you. I keep reading this testimonial because it’s it’s so, so genuine and just not what you’re goingto see about most certified public accountants. Um, i’ll take care of you and you want somebody who’s going to do that for you going beyond the numbers. Eat. Talk to huge tomb. You heard mi ri a lot about him last week. Talkto him. Good guy. Weinger cpas dot com. Now time for tony. Take two. Show your love. I need you to show your love to our sponsors. Please. These are the companies that are keeping this show. Ah, going to conferences, um, keeping it in the studio month after month, helping me produce the show by sponsoring it. So if cpa’s or fund-raising council and valuable fund-raising content and credit card processing our possibilities for you, then i would be grateful if you would check out our sponsors. You know who i’m talking about? Of course. Pursuing wagner and tell us please show your love to the sponsors. Check him out. Now return to build your grantmaker relationships. So on the corporate side, it about being, you know, you guys being flexible, right? Because, yeah, i can support you through grantmaking and providing volunteers, but there’s also other opportunities, so i always make it. I always make the effort of engaging non-profits where our affinity groups at american express because that if your woman empowerment organization there’s always a way to connect with employees and other ways, right? So we’ll offer volunteers, but we can also bring awareness to our employees, and they could make individual donations through our employees e-giving campaign or through our dollars for doors program, or maybe it’s an opportunity for you to come in and speak to a group of women and just bring more awareness, so the relationship doesn’t just have toe and at grantmaking were always big expanding that relationship and helping you as much as we can. All right, this is a time we’re going to turn teo storytelling. I want it. I want to turn to some examples of how these strong relationships have impacted work on the ground use. Use any example you like one of your one of your grantee organizations and let’s let’s start with anthony. And and the projects on shiny and and why don’t you talk about the work that goes beyond as you were just saying, perfect in trouble, you know, beyond money. So we started our partnership with project sunshine back in twenty ten, and our biggest challenge at that moment was engaging those i mean, where american express that we have several call centers throughout the u s and it’s harder to engage those employees who are you know, their job is basically being on the phone, being in a call center. So we were looking keeper ways to engage these volunteers because, let’s, be honest, most employees want to go out and violence here, but the challenge is finding the time, right? So not every employee has the luxury of going on park and planting a tree for four or five hours, so we thought, why not start this partnership with project sunshine? Who, i’m christine can talk more about what they do create thes care kids that are prepared in house. Esso employees don’t necessarily have to leave the office to volunteer. It only takes one hour. We started that partnership back in twenty ten immediately we got a huge response, because again, people felt like they were able to give back without having to invest so much time fast forward, i think two or three years later, the success of the program helped us build a case to go backto our leaders and say, hey, this is a great partnership were engaging more volunteers we expanded than to other locations on dh we’ve been partners now for seven years, and we’ve engaged over seven thousand employees in the last couple of years, and we’re now internationally. Last year, we started a partnership with project sunshine zoho it’s finding ways of thinking of all your employees population, right? So those who don’t have the flexibility and and i think that’s, what works? Well, that project’s on china heard the challenge that we were having, and they did a great job at finding a solution for us, especially if you’re talking to corporations think broadly again your course way said, your first meeting is not going to the solicitation, you know, make some enquiries. So after you’ve done your research on the web site, maybe talk to some other organizations that, you know they’re funding. However, however you go about your research, especially talking to corporations, you want to think about volunteers because anthony’s point is and please do want a volunteer, and that often is a part of what companies want to give. So it’s more than the money, especially not only limited to companies, certainly, but especially cos don’t think just about, you know, dollars out. Okay, so so how how are your work? Is pediatric patients supporting them and their families? And how are these kids and their families benefiting from this? Is that great questions? So we the healthcare landscape is constantly changing, and oftentimes the child, the patient, they’re stressed and terrified parents, they’re siblings kind of get missed. And so what we do is mobilized volunteers to really provide and come around the child, that the parents, the family, and to treat them the way that if we were the child, the parents or the sibling, we will let me treat it. And so we do a number of different programs we provide in hospital based parties, bringing the joy of childhood into the into the hospital setting, letting kids be kids. So we do that’s one part the part that we work with. American express and a lot of our corporate volunteers are sending sunshine programme, so the sending sunshine program really what’s designed kind of with i mean, american express was a big part of that it’s office based volunteering so volunteer corporate volunteers in their own offices get to ascend, assemble these craft kids so that’s like a standalone craft that that we sent to over three hundred hospitals and medical facilities so that if you i mean, you could imagine if you were a child and you just broken leg, you’re in emergency room, you’re going to be there for four hours, and you have a lot of stressed out doctor’s child life specialists, they able to grab these and give give them to a child to decrease their anxiety, to decrease there, even boredom, to the and to the the sibling who may be with them. And and the care giver is a moment to believe. So that’s one of the that the activities we also create these things called sergi dolls, which are medical play dolls, and we’ve made there’s research behind them about using these dogs to help empower children to understand the treatment that they will. Be going through. And when i first joined projects in china was like, does this really make a difference? And the overwhelming answer from our partners? That, yes, we have a wait list them so clearly there’s a need there, and the and that the need for on the hospital side for these children families that in a line so well with our corporate partners, i think it’s it’s kind of it’s amazing this wind wind that anthony was talking about. So over, i think, with the last time we checked over forty five thousand children, families received these craft kids hyre sergi dolls that american express employees put together, and one recently was around the hurricanes. So the we had said american express has a south florida region regional areas. So we had made a much of craft kits, sent them to hospital suspected by the hurricane. We received this amazing quote phone call from a child life specialist who say you saved our lives. So basically, american express partiers saved our lives because we received i think something like one hundred falik in floods of one hundred fifty two warring families who were clearly distraught and stressed, and the first thing they did was grab as many of these yellow projects on chain bags that are volunteers put together as they could and went from chaos to come. And these were her wits chaos to come immediately. Christine, how do you convey that message to american express that they would feel the impact of their work? So we don’t have a phone call with anthony, and we do try to sow way have a great development team that does a lot of social media, and we’re trying we try to provide photos reporting all the things that we had talked about on this panel so that we could make sure that power corporate incorporate partners feel that, yes, so we did for that specific one we were on the phone, and then anthony, who fed it back to the actual employees from actually we’re in a such a satisfaction right on our employees and those who volunteer because you see the immediate impact, right? So it’s not like going on like a community center and painting a wall blew right there’s really not much impact that you see there? Yeah, you paint the wall, but with these care kids, you know, if one hundred volunteers create a thousand kids, you know that they’re going to get to a thousand kids who need them. So every time i post project’s on shine project on our internet site, it sells out in a matter of like five minutes, like, okay flooded with emails because, again, it’s a good way for employees just donate a now hour of their time and see the immediate impact that these kids have. I could tell caitlin is burning, the answer will come back. I just wanted teo say this is an example of where that sounds like a phenomenal volunteer opportunity where it’s both beneficial in it’s a meaningful volunteer opportunity that’s beneficial not just for the volunteer, but also for the organization. I just want to say this is one of those moments where feel free to push back against your donor, where if they’re really excited and want to send volunteers your way and it’s actually going to create more of a headache, then be helpful or if you work in a context where it’s not appropriate tohave caitlyn as ah white, thirty two year hold american coming in, i thinkyou internationally. But with at risk, youth are more sensitive. Populations feel free to say no, because all too often, i think organizations, especially if it’s, a donor asking, feel i’m required to take on this hungers. And sometimes it’s it’s more trouble than it’s worth. Um the shining of ah story that one repeat that some of the themes that we’ve already heard, and i, i’m reminded of a grantee partner of ours, that it was actually same grantee that i mentioned working in the rural areas of california. Um buy-in they’ve been a grantee of ours for three, three years, so not, you know, like a historic one for us, but not a baby. And we have had an amazing relationship. They send us that the updates we’ve met curated this relationship. We took a tour of the central valley of california, seeing all the work they’ve done, we bought our ceo of our vice president, we met dolores huerta, and we really got to see their work after that site visit. You can tell that the relationship kind of tipped a little bit. You could tell that way had a shorthand. We had a common connection and fast forward to two weeks ago. The head of the project is doing great work, and they’re trying to scale their program. Um, we shopped thiss program director to the ford foundation, to the open society foundation and to an anonymous donor that works in this space. We introduced them tio like mine and thunders that we know here in new york city because we know that their work is so amazing, you know, in the rural areas of california kind of far away from big foundation institutions except for the california down men. Um, so that’s that’s a story that i love that i don’t think that may be a lot of grantees would think to say, please introduce us to your other fundez as you might think, that is a no overreach or or going past, but i think you can get a read on that relationship once it reaches that tipping point. That’s something i’m sure a lot of organization just wouldn’t even think to do. Introduce us to your other funders. Got to take a break, tell us credit card and payment processing. Check out the video at tony dahna slash tony tell us explains the process of businesses getting with tello’s making that switch and how you get fifty percent of the revenue that passive revenue month after month after month think about the businesses this makes sense for in your community and send them to watch the video after you watch. It you watch first, like that car dealership that which i was putting down car dealership. I was thinking i had such a bad such a bad experience. First time i bought a car, i don’t know where my mother and father were, but we agreed on a price. And then the guy the the finance manager put on this one act play festival with the supposedly his the executive above him. About what? What? Ah, what a great price i was getting. It was for me to over here in their office, and they kept the door open and the finance manager was being berated. I told you nothing below sticker. The guy giving me, like a hundred fifty dollars off sticker price, right? I told you nothing below sticker. This can’t happen again. One act play festival happening in this office with the door open for me, the client to hear outside. And so the finance manager comes out, you know, he’s looking sheepish, total total fabrication. I said, is everything okay with our deal? You know, he said he said, everybody has a boss. All right, think about those car dealerships. Tony got a slash tony tell us now, back to building your grantmaker relationships. I mean, you gotta you gotta impact story. I do have an impact story. So in the foundation world, the most popular areas to fund are the arts, education and children, and my foundation does not fund that. In fact, out of one hundred five thousand foundations in this country, only six are primarily focused on older adults, so very, very small group of funders that do work nationally in this space. And we really care about, um, creating age friendly health systems, you know, how are they gonna be responsive to older adults caring about serious illness and end of life and also about family caregivers? So one of the grant is here in new york city, it’s the center towards to advance palliative care, trains people to provide care and make sure that they haven’t vamp scare planning so that their, you know, their goals are what i care is that they get at the end that they relieve suffering. They make sure that people have the care that they need when they go through a very serious illness, even when they’re going to get better from serious illness to help them get through that serious illness. Um, and so the kinds of impact this work has had today, a palliative care is in roughly ninety percent of hospitals nationally. That’s. Huge. It only came to this country in the nineteen eighties. We have been along and sustained thunder in this space, and we may be slowed a warm, but we tend to be a longer and sustained thunder around impact. Um, the other thing was, there were very few funders that were interested in this space. Does anybody remember the death panel? Conversations? Okay, well, thankfully, we’re not having a lot of those today, but, um, there were very few funders that we’re doing focused work in this area. So i decided i was going to start having calls. This was not with the grantee. This was on behalf of the grantspace. I wanted to create a safe learning space for foundations that might be thinking about this. They wanted to learn. And so what’s happened with that. We now have a very large collaborative. People are more strategic. I know people that they want to fund. We fund together some things. We fundez next to each other and other things, um, this past year, about eighty million dollars in new funding was in this space. And this is on behalf of the grantee, the grant he could not have had those calls, but it was necessary to begin. Teo, bring people into the space. And now they’re coming out of the woodwork. We actually did a grant. Teo, give somebody money to help coordinate this crew. Um, you know, coordinate the calls and everything else. So thie impact is huge. The only other thing about this was about seven years ago. I was diagnosed with stage four cancer. And i had been doing this work long before my you know, this is my my area. Um, but then i made a decision. How could i make use of the situation to further healthy grantee? So i’ve been writing, speaking, uh, we’ve put on congressional briefings together. So any other way that i can be helpful, i am definitely shoulder to shoulder with grant. Thank you for sharing. Thank you, kayman a backstory. And then we’re gonna come back to the come back to you. It’ll be peppermint lifesaver time very shortly after caitlin’s kitten’s got an example. Yes. And i would just go back to some power can fund your question around, like, what to do once your rd, a grantee in-kind of in the medium term and how it can be really helpful for the relationship. So just to say one of the key criteria we look for when determining whether or not we’re going to fund an organization for a second a third, a fourth year, is this idea around are they learning organization? And by that we mean a couple of things on one, um, really, the most important is, like i said, we don’t expect programs to go perfectly there’s challenges that come up youth are dynamic and changing issue areas arise eyes um, but really impactful grantees that we have in great relationships in the really impactful programming are constantly learning and adapting and analyzing what went well, what it’s our strength what’s an area for improvement and even again, the same grantee in oaxaca, mexico. So in the course of their programming found that the middle school population that they were working with we’re engaging in self harm and cutting, and they recognized we as an organization don’t have expertise on this. But they themselves reached out, identified an organization in canada that focuses on this and then came to us and said, listen, and our next grant, we would love to include a line item to have training on this to better serve our young people and with a learning organization, i would just say also, openness to feedback, we think, you know, we support programs across the globe and sometimes see similar challenges in best practices, so it’s not donor-centric but being open to feedback is really important, even if you don’t necessarily take it on. And then also with this learning organization comes which sounds li, but playing well with others. So we often ask grantee organizations what other organizations are doing great work in their field and, um, it’s a rite of flag for us if they if they come back and say no one else is doing it as well as we are, which has happened and, uh, yeah, so i would say being a learning organization, playing while collaborating with other service providers, it’s something that we look four and yeah, provides question occurred to me based on what you and amy and we’re saying, especially if you’re being funded, what about? So if none of your funders duitz ask, can we meet your other funders? If you’re a grantee, what about saying we’d like you to meet our other funders? What about the grantee putting that those that possibility together? Is there a downside we’re talking about? Could there be a okay, so so the grantee could think of it. If none of the funders do there’s no doesn’t seem to be a downside to that, and just a just a couple of sentences. Don’t do this. Stop your top, don’t do this. Yeah, the worst thing that you could do is when you have an opportunity to get funding, to listen to the thunder about what it is. You should be funded. In other words, don’t move from your mission if it’s not helpful to your mission and strategy. It’s a disaster, okay. I’m going to just i’ll answer this from my previous foundation experience. One thing was, don’t get angry when you get there, like when you get defunded. So there was one of the things that was very difficult. Was when was for funder, is to not fund that’s very hard, i think, from i’m sure everyone here knows and to have to send out a declination is also hard to have that he met with anger and accusation. Not great. I would say, don’t go into your automatic pitch, right? Because we have objectives. You have objectives. So it goes just backto what we’ve been saying, doing research, and not just assuming all american express is a big company, with so much money that we would necessarily support. I’m sure your mission is important. But it might be something that we’re not is not within our gunman’s, that we would support. So not just going into your pitch and assuming that. Then don’t do it, miss deadlines, this deadline? Yeah, don’t miss deadlines you can man asked for an extension, don’t do it! Eleven fifty nine the day of but my in my over four years in philanthropy, i know exactly those organizations that i think you’re going to fall through the cracks unless our team reminds them and i feel like that’s a perception issue happens with individuals. You won’t know that one person that made a bad impression in your family or at work and that perception than permeates it and then stays. So just have a schedule have reminders have your assistance remind you whatever, but yeah, don’t nastad please there’s so many technical tools that can help you. You do everything from wake up to know when to go to sleep, everything in between. So i used the use the app to use the tools we have bonem to one i would say is don’t fall off the place the face of the earth so we’ve had some grantees just disappear. Yeah, and and not communicating, i would say, even if it’s a one line, you know again in mexico, right after the earthquake, we reshot guarantees how are you doing? So you know, we’re in the trenches, but thank you for thinking of us, boom, or, you know, where is your report? I’m sorry, there’s been delays. Just keep the communication open, so please let’s, join me in thanking that’s. It in-kind christine werner and xero miree. Buy-in i hope you see all the connections between your individual fund-raising and your newly invigorated institutional fund-raising program. Next week, turbocharger grants fund-raising john hicks returns you see how coordinated the show is, grantspace that grants week after week, this is all put together. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio wagner, cps, guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com and tell us credit card payment processing, your passive revenue stream durney dahna slash tony tell us our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by susan chavez. Our music is by scott steiner brooklyn, new york you with me next week for non-profit radio, big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for February 9, 2018: Your Online Giving Plan

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Joe Garecht: Your Online Giving Plan

Change is a constant in the online space. What does that mean for your fundraising plan? Fundraising consultant Joe Garecht shares his wisdom.

 

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’ve endured the pane of glass a tricky if i had to speak with harry words you missed today’s show you’re online giving plan change is a constant in the online space what does that mean for your fund-raising plan? This year fund-raising consultant joe garrick shares his wisdom on tony’s take two lose track of time. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna i’m a slash pursuant radio and by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream tony dahna may slash tony tell us i’m very glad to welcome joe garrick to the show. He is president of garrick fund-raising associates. He has nearly twenty years of experience helping non-profits build donorsearch sta mes to increase their fund-raising he was founder of the fund-raising authority, providing online fund-raising training before consulting, he was an executive director and the development director. You’ll find him at garrick tw dot com and he’s at joe garrick and he’s on non-profit radio welcome, joe garrett. Thanks, tony. I’m really, really glad to be here with you today. Thanks for having me. I’m glad you’re doubly glad. That’s cool. Thank you. Thank you. Um, okay, let’s, talk about online. We got a good amount of time together. This space, as i said in the intro, is always changing. But how do we, uh, how do we adapt? Yeah, it’s a great question and it’s one that, you know particularly bedevils small and mid sized non-profits because there’s a ton of information coming at fundraisers about online fund-raising it comes from what they see, large organizations doing it comes from what vendors are trying to sell them, and a lot of times it comes internally. I can’t tell you how many non-profits i’ve worked with where the fundraisers say to me, hey, i was talking to a boardmember and they said, we’ve got to be on blank and blank is usually a social media platform or ah, blogging platform or a crowdfunding platform. Okay, and so they’re kind of getting it from all sides. And so one of the one of the biggest things like right up front here that i want to say to non-profits is, um, kind of relax about online fund-raising it’s important, but just like every other kind of fund-raising it’s important to develop a plan and a strategy for your online fund-raising and to implement it and give it time toe work, you know, a lot of non-profits i’ve found feel like they’ve got to keep up, you know, every new thing that comes out, they’ve got to keep up with, you know, they’ve got ad, they gotta take bitcoin donations, they’ve got it beyond another social media platform, and the truth is just like every other kind of fund-raising this is fund-raising it’s a process, you need to develop a plan, and you need to stick with it. And then after you give it some time to run, you contest and iterated, you need teo, but it’s, it’s, knowable and it’s doable for every non-profit stick with it long enough to toe do, in fact test and and see if there’s if there’s traction among your constituents, i mean, you’re not going to know that in just like, four to six months that’s, right? That’s, right? I always say you know, develop a plan and give it, you know, at the very least a year so that you have enough data, enough contacts with your donors, with your prospects, with the network as a whole, to really see where it’s going for your non-profit again, it’s, just like, you know, just because we say it’s online fund-raising doesn’t mean it not still fund-raising, you know, non-profits wouldn’t, you know, launch a they wouldn’t launch a capital campaign and give it a month, and if they don’t have, you know, a certain percentage of gifts dropped the campaign right away, they’d carefully consider whether or not they were ready to run a crowd i mean, a capital campaign, they develop a plan for it, and then they’d implement that plan and on lee after they’ve implemented, would they be able to really just make decisions about changing that plan and it’s the same with online fund-raising need to really think it through before you dive into a new strategy or a new tactic, and then you’ve got to give it time. And and also you really need to make sure that your online fund-raising strategy works with your overall fund-raising strategy so many non-profits have limited bandwidth in terms of time and money. I mean, rare right is the non-profit that has too much band with all it never happens. So you have to make sure that you’re making wise decisions because everything that you’re doing online, it’s time that you take away from offline and everything you’re doing offline is time that you’re taking away from online. So you have to kind of see where those where those tactics strategies fit together in your overall fund-raising plan. Yeah, and we’re going to talk a little about the offline, too, because they do need to align. What do you do with that? Boardmember or ceo that says, we need to be somewhere can can the existence of a plan help you and be sort of a defense and say, look, we’ve got a plan, we’re executing, you know? What can we say to that person who was above us that says, we gotta be on this new this new ah shiny platform? Sure, yeah, i think your biggest the biggest tool you have is a fundraiser foran executive director when those ideas come at you is a plan. Now, if you’re developing the plan because you’re getting those ideas, then you may have a problem because now that’s all for today? Yeah, why isn’t idea and that playing but if you if you take the time to develop a plan ahead of time about how your non-profit is going to pursue engagement online, and if that plan has phases and deadlines and metric and, you know, testing and looking at maternal investment and it really just is a good plan and it makes sense, then you’re able to, you know, take that to your boardmember why usually like to say to boardmember xero first of all, that’s a really interesting idea. Thank you so much for being think, you know, for thinking about this for our non-profits top of mind that you’re generating these ideas, i want to let you know i’m definitely going, we’re definitely going to consider it right now, we’re in the middle of our online and he’s been playing online fund-raising plan for the year and were, you know, at band with capacity, and we’re going to implement this, and at the end of the year, we’re goingto look at how we did and if there’s you know, if there are some things that are underperforming, and we think that this strategy will, you know, outperform those we’d love to take a look at it. So, you know, stay tuned, i promise i’ll report back to you at the end of the year, and then you know it, you know, an animal, so i hope that non-profit that you’re working at, you know, whoever, whoever you are, dear listener, that you are not in this situation, but if you’re in a situation where boardmember they’re saying no, no, no, you definitely need to do this this year, right now, then my suggestion always is saying to them, that’s, fine, we can do that, but what should we cut? You know, that’s the big question, what should we cut? We’re running at capacity in terms of band with so let’s, take a look at the fund-raising plan and you tell me what to cut out of that fund-raising plan to be able to fit this and normally that gets boardmember thinking more about the fact that while fund-raising capacity is not a zero sum game and it’s a world of abundance, you were fund-raising resource is and staff resources are your something certainly xero some game? Yeah, that’s i like that. Like that method of handling certainly give the affirmation that your your idea is meritorious, but where? You know, you said we’re in the middle of executing a current plan. Hopefully you don’t have that kind of micromanagement if we had many guests on, you know, saying that your board members or others senior volunteers, if you like, should not be micromanaging your you know, the day to day tactics that you’re that you’re executing, i’ll tell you what you were going, we’re going to take our first break, so hang with me, please. Great. Pursuing the field guide for data driven fund-raising it’s, the latest resource on their listener landing page now at tony dahna slash pursuing to radio there’s so much data available to all of us. It’s overload. So what you gonna do with it? The field guide is comes in to make your data less daunting. What’s in it. They’ve got five high level steps that you can take quickly to translate your business objectives into actionable data. That’s, that’s manageable real world case studies showing you how some other non-profits are using data, in other words, do some benchmarking and learning worksheet with some conversation and thought starters to help you your team. Maybe even some of those key volunteers board members find the right focus to begin a data driven culture. It’s the field guide for data driven fund-raising tony dahna slash pursuant radio let’s go back to joe and your online giving plan, and my voice just cracked, too. How are you still there? And i know you are, joe, all right? Yeah, well, i was just mentioning the micromanagement. Anything you want, you want to be among the countless guests who have said that you should not be allowing your board members to micromanage tactic like that. Yeah, well, obviously, i concur. And i would i would say again that a planning process and developing a plan is your best defense against that. And i were talking about online giving today, but just, you know, i’ve found that developing an overall development plan fund-raising plan for your organization and if you’re a smaller midsize organization actually, going through the step of having your board approved that plant vote to approve it, hopefully lead by the board chair is sometimes a way that you really can, you know, provided defense against that because then you can go back and say what we were all on board with this plan is we’re going to execute the plan as as we, you know, as we all agreed, as we got the buy-in yeah, we get that board. Buy-in okay, right? So as we’re looking at our our our plan, how do we figure out what’s the best mix for our organisation? Of course, there’s no, no universal formula, how we figure out what, what fits us best. What mix? Sure, and you’re right, there’s no universal formula for online fund-raising but the closest we can get to a universal principle for online fund-raising right now is that email is the most effective method for online fund-raising now, that’s not to discount the impact of social media were crowdfunding or, you know, or your website, they’re all important, but email is the only knowable and really active medium that your organization controls. You know, we’re in a situation where when you’re posting on social media, first of all, you don’t own the social media profile the social media site does and that’s been proven by the fact that, you know, when you, when facebook first started out, if you were a non-profit on facebook or a company on facebook and you were, you know, you had followers, the vast majority, then we’re going to see the posts that you put up right now, you know, that used to be remember that remember that time? Yeah, and that mystery companies and non-profits fuel hoodwink you probably remember facebook was getting people to buy advertising to get likes on their page, as opposed lynx clicks to their links with the idea that if you got people to like your page, they would then see all the other content you put up essentially for free, you know, once you’ve got that buy-in and now now, you know, before the latest algorithm change, they you know, facebook was only showing you were posted less than ten percent of the people who liked your page unless you’re paying for advertising and that’s going down again because of the latest algorithm change. So so clearly you don’t control you can’t control the volume and pacing of your messages to donors on social media. That’s true of every social media site, unless you’re paying for it, your website’s, kind of similar, like i love when donors come to our organization’s website that i’m working with, and click that donate now button, but most donors aren’t going to do that, and if they don’t do that, then unless some using, you know, expensive retargeting advertising tools of paying for a car for advertising on other sites? I’m i don’t know who’s coming to our website, i don’t know who’s stopping by if they don’t taken action. Yeah, andi so that’s kind of passive as well. Email right is the only active mediums that a non-profit controls. If you have someone give you permission to use their email address for your email newsletter or for other communications, they’re going to see your messages. Almost everybody in the united states certainly checks their email address their primary email address almost every day. Oh, it’s, hundreds of the stats are like we checked, like like one hundred twenty five times a day or something, you know, right it’s just beyond me. Yeah, and particularly because a mobile right everyone’s looking on their email on there, you know, and so and and how do they check it, they skim basically, if he doesn’t land in the junk folder, they’re going to see your name and the subject line, which gives you a fighting chance of having your email open and so sabat i always advised, but i’m building a new online fund-raising system for a non-profit my advice to them is funnel everybody as many people as you can do everything you can to collect that email address, because then you are in control, you’re in the driver’s seat. So, you know, your original question was, what is the mix? The right mix for? Non-profits and i would say that for most, almost every non-profit the right mix is ah, hub and spoke system where your website is the hub, but the purpose of that hub is to collect email addresses from all the spokes, which is all of the places that you will have a presence online, whether it’s paid or earned or social. Okay, you said, you know, once you have that email address, you’re in the driver’s seat, but that’s with the with the qualification that you’re you’re adhering to the permission that the person gave you in terms of what? Subjects they want to hear from you about if you’re sophisticated enough to be asking when and how often but you want to keep to those to the parameters that the that the potential donor has given you absolutely, absolutely and so for, you know, for more sophisticated non-profit not only is it, you know, you know, the ethical thing to do to try and segment somewhat and determined the volume and the messaging, but also is really effective. Fund-raising right, if i, if i can determine by asking donors and tying their responses to the email address what they want to hear about how they want to hear from me, how often they want to hear from me that’s going to make our fund-raising program more effective, but for every non-profit you know the goal of collecting the email address, you know, what i kind of said was you want to collect email address, but you really want to collect permission to use it, right? You can go find email addresses, you come by list, you can do all this other stuff that’s, unethical, you know, in some cases, particularly for-profit businesses, it may be illegal or, you know but but what you really want to do is focus on getting permission and easiest way for smaller non-profits to get that permission is by signing people up for an email newsletter by signing people up to get your your non-profits email newsletter and other updates is usually the way we on brother and other communications is usually the way we try and freeze it and that’s broad and if that’s a starting place, if you’re more sophisticated than you contrive segment further, right, right? Based on topic and as i said, maybe even frequency they’ve even time of year. I’ve seen questions. Yeah, on that can come later to when you khun survey later on, once you’ve i mean, if you’ve got there, if you’ve got their permission, and if you have the wherewithal to to execute on the segmentation, you might survey your donors, you’re not even just your donors, but survey your your the people that are accepting your communications and ask what their preferences are. Absolutely, andi, assuming you have the capability to adhere to them, you know you alluded a couple times, teo spending let’s talk a little about that how do we decide whether we should be spending on, uh, what i’m thinking primarily facebook, twitter? Sure, sure. Well, i mean, obviously there’s a there’s, a lot of benefits, two advertising on those platforms facebook in particular has a ton of targeting tools where you can really i mean, it’s a segue mentors dream right? You, khun really dahna drill down and really heavily segment you were you’re you’re advertising audience, you can say you wantto segment people who are thirty five to forty years old who live in indiana and who follow a certain, you know, a certain would have liked a certain page that’s really, really powerful the key, as you know and as any you know for-profit market or nose, the key is figuring out the return on investment and really trying to get your per click advertising spent down as low as possible, first of all, and i’m not, i wouldn’t say there’s a universal agreement with this, but my strong recommendation and on properties there’s really only one crew action you want to be paying for on facebook, and that action is getting people to click over to your website, right? I i don’t i don’t think it makes sense anymore to pay for like, i don’t think it makes sense to pay for other actions. I want to get people to click on links to my website to come over to my website where they can do what, where they can sign up for my email news longfield email drive him to that home. Yeah, but i own that connection. So your goal if you’re if you’re deciding to spend money on social media, is to get the cost per email acquisition is really what you’re trying to do as low as possible, and you know they’re through testing you really can get that down. You can certainly get the cost per click to your website down into the ten fifteen, twenty cents per click range, maybe lower, depending on what you’re targeting and then figuring out how many of those people sign up for your email newsletter. So i think that’s the, you know, the really the only consideration with online from a fund-raising perspective is really, you know, with all nine hundred advertising his return on investment now bigger organizations can afford things like i talked, you know, i mentioned earlier, which was like a retargeting. On bacon, you know, that’s, those ads that follow you across the web, you know, you could you look up, you know, non-profit radio and then you’re on another website and all of a sudden there’s a non-profit radio ads on that website and it’s, because you’re being targeted, you’re being followed buy a cookie that’s, you know that that impact your return on investment, but it’s really something that’s reserved two muchmore advanced organizations who have more money to spend on the testing because with all nine fund-raising really the fortunes in the follow-up it’s your spending money? If you’re paying for online engagement, you’re spending a certain amount now with the goal of making money on the back and and the way you’re going to make money on the back end is not by getting people to constantly, you know, come to your web site and clicked one ofthe donate now buttons it’s by using email to stay in touch with them, to solicit them and to try and build a path for them to become a regular giver to your organization. I admire that you kept yourself out of jargon jail by defining retargeting thank you, i was i was i was chomping at the bit to get you, but it was short lived because you immediately explain what we targeting is those those those ads that yes, you did you’re you’re free of drug in jail. Those ads that i consider annoying, i guess there are people who like them or if even if they don’t like them, they’re obviously successful because their companies making aa lot of money filtering adds segment in ads. Teo individual people i know, i know it’s a lucrative business i find i find that stuff annoying, um, creepy, but can be lucrative. Yeah, it is on dh it’s both i think i think it’s both on and then the other one that i didn’t mention our one hundred facebook. Of course, there is the possibility of google adwords and we’ve we’ve covered this on the show a couple times you could search that phrase tony martignetti dot com and we’ve had detailed conversations about how to take advantage of the ten thousand dollars per month that’s hard to spend that much money but it’s up to that maximum that google provides in an ad free adwords if you want to. And you could do much, much smaller campaigns. You don’t have to spend ten thousand dollars, but we’ve had guests talking about that and that’s another that’s, another possibility in the spending category, but it’s free because it’s tze a grant from google um okay, let’s. Um let’s bring in some some coordination between online and offline, as we’re thinking about what belongs in our plan three offline i’m thinking of is face-to-face meetings and u s mail. How do we how do we coordinate thes this with our with our online? Right? Well, good, great question and it’s two great questions you’re living me with thank you if you don’t have to keep it out, that is not necessary, you know you’re you’re a guest, i’m not going to cut your mic off so it’s not necessary to keep saying i got you the the you know again, i don’t want to make a i don’t want to make a sweeping generalizations because every non-profit is different, but if in general right the the most there is a hierarchy of fund-raising ass strategy’s where and it and it tends towards the more personal right so a in person ask. Is more effective than a phone ask a phone ask is more effective then a ah direct mail snail mail asked a snail mail ask is more effective than an email asking email ask is more effective than like social media ask now that you know, some donors don’t want to get a phone call or don’t want to get in person, you know, meeting and they want to be selected by the mail and that’s great, and we need respect what our donors you know what our donor preferences are, but in general that’s the hierarchy and if that’s the hierarchy, we need to respect that and realize that, as with all things there’s, ah, there’s a curve in terms of our time, and we should be spending more time on the more effective strategies. Now. The good news is that one of the reasons direct mail’s effective because it doesn’t take much time to talk to lots of donors. Your your average gifts size is going to be lower, but it’s relatively easy emails, even easier right it’s emails and even easier method your average gifts eyes is likely going to be lower than your direct male average. Gifts, eyes and so, you know, the things that go into your decision on your strategy for the year are go where the money is, what, you know, what kind of time do we have to invest in those things? And where our donors i mean that’s, really? Another question is, you know where, where our donors, if you’re a small organization that happens to have lots of donors scattered throughout the country for the world, then in person meetings aren’t going to be, as, you know, big a possibility for you, and you may have to rely on you no more on the mail in the morning. I don’t know. Not only where are they physically, but where are they? Virtually what platforms are they on? As we talked about, you know what preferences do they have for communications? And where do you find the bulk of them? You know, you may have more fun on facebook, but you’ve got you’ve got a lot more activity and engagement, riel engagement on twitter so you need to be spending more time there. I and the other just one other thing i wanted to put a little spin a little little point to is, of course, another factor with direct mail is the cost postage printing, the collating however you do when you do it in house, you pay somebody to do it, you know, there’s there’s a much bigger cost to direct mail. I’m not denying that it’s it’s ah it’s up there, you know, it’s it’s right below face-to-face ass, i’m not. I’m not quick challenging that, but just the cost factor of that the u s mail. Oh, yeah, and that’s, why return on investment is the biggest consideration when you want to direct mail testing intestine, right? If you don’t have the capacity to test and then the money to invest in testing, you shouldn’t particularly direct mail. You should not be doing prospecting mailing because you know it doesn’t. It doesn’t make any sense. I think you know, in developing your overall, you know, strategy email, you know, for most organizations, the email newsletter is the backbone of the donor cultivation and stewardship sabelo more about that. You alluded to that before, when you were talking about the hub, trying to get people to your site. You want that email address newsletter is the is the center of your communications plan. It sounds like for you, right? Yeah, that that that is true. You know, email emails are super popular for a couple of reasons. One is because they work. I mean, they’re away for for non-profits that would never get a monthly snail mail newsletter out the door or have any other way to connect with their donors monthly or even quarterly in a method that’s just cultivation and stewardship. That’s not on aska truitt for them to stay in touch with their donors on a regular basis, it gets to the donor the donors who are interested, we’d those newsletters, those who don’t can just delete them. It’s, it’s, you know, it’s effective, but but it’s also the backbone of most donorsearch altercation zsystems because of those other things we mentioned it’s cheap it’s, easy, it’s, easy to do. You know, it’s. Not like the old days where it was real hard to create a good looking email newsletter. You got services that constant contact in a weber and male chimp and you know you’re donordigital based all of them send out beautiful, you know, emails at a really, really cheap costs far less. Obviously, than the cost of direct mail, so for most non-profits it makes sense that that the backbone of your entire donorsearch altum ation system not just your online donor cultivation system, but your entire donorsearch conservation zsystems his email communication, it’s, it’s email newsletters again, you’re still gonna want with your certain segments of donors have much more personal contact that they didn’t want to invite them to cultivation event you’re going to want to talk to them in person, you’re going to want to go out and see them. You’re gonna want to send a personalized notes, but but email the email newsletter the email cultivation is something that ties almost all of your donors together. Okay, um, let’s, let’s, take a break there. Okay? George arika okay, sounds good. Regular sepa is this testimonial quote, this is my first year and we’re growing non-profit regular gps was completely attentive and gave the impression as if they were right next door when handling our review engagement. Even though we’re in a different state, they made me feel like we were the only client they had that’s like that. And like the whole thing, they were able to walk. Me, through starting up our accounts to finishing our yearly statements, nothing was too small of a task for them to handle their always available for questions and concerns customer service was exceptional and was greatly appreciated. I received great advice and guidance for better business practices. This is talking about the cps for god’s sake. Listen to this gushing thing, it’s it’s incredible! That was my part that i didn’t write that all from a professional while feeling supported and genuinely cared for in the process. Wagner stupas really stands out as a partner, and i could not be happier with the results and quote that’s from the small cancer research non-profit on the east coast, supported and genuinely cared for are they limo drivers, wedding photographers, makeup artists, caterers, florists alright, you hear the wedding theme? Are they pre op nurses, interventional cardiac surgeons, home health workers, chaplin’s, social workers, none of the above their just wagner, cps but they’re more they’re more than cpas, trusted advisors to their clients. You’re supposed to change our two firms every three years to get that fresh perspective, you want the advice of a firm that goes broad and helps you. Beyond just the numbers. That’s them right beyond the numbers. You hear me say it, talk to them. You know you can talk to at wagner. You coached him? He’s been on the show. He’s been guessed twice. I’ve had lunches and dinners with heat right here in new york city. You can speak to him, he’s a live person. And ah, well, the people i meet for lunches and dinners for the most part. So, you know, get to know them. See if wagner cps can help you beyond the numbers. Okay, i’m gushing, but ah, i like them. I like eat. I like i like wagner, wagner, cpas, dot com now time for tony’s take two. I was on a cruise last month, totally disconnected. Totally offgrid or just, you know, don’t you want to modify it? Just offgrid i was offgrid and it felt luxurious. I lost track of time. There were there were blocks of ours, ours strolling by with my ties on drum punches. And i did not know what time it was the only reason i had to ask people. And i’d asked me because i kept my phone in my room the whole time. Ah, it zoho i wouldn’t show up for late, late for lunch and dinner breakfast. I was on track, but that, you know so my advice can you get a vacation where you’re not only napping? You’ve heard me talk about the beneficial impact of naps, but when you actually when you lose track of time one of those, what time is it? Vacations or a piece of vacation where you just you’re unconnected and you don’t even know what time it is. Okay, that’s, my video is from st thomas and it’s at tony martignetti dot com. Now, let’s, go back to joe garrett and you’re online e-giving plan. Thank you, joe garrett, um, i need to be here before you were really, really glad now, you just now now, it’s, not so much anymore. Just clouds the middle of the show. We’ll get her energy back-up oh, jeez, you’re in a slump. Cutting mike off. I’ll tap dance myself. I got i got playing giving god again gush with plan giving for all right. You’re not in a slump. I know you’re not, um by way you got a nice radio voice like you got a basic kind of voice. Thank you. Yeah. Um, how about should we that’s? Just something that i’ve talked to guess about? And i’ve heard different philosophies. What about converting online donors too? Latto offline donors, first of all, should we mean with all the things that you and you’ve just said should we be? And then if you think we should, i’m not. I’m not suggesting that’s what? One answer or another. But if you do think we should how do we do that? Let’s, start with that threshold question. Should we even be thinking about doing that, right? Yeah, i do think that you should try and convert all flight vote. Well, let me let me go online online to all i would like to offer you. Yeah. You you should be trying to move those online donors who won tohave offline contact with your non-profit to offline status. Now, there’s. A reason for that is because you have muchmore there’s much more ability to cultivate and steward those donors in a more personal fashion. If they’re offline, donors, very rarely will will a one hundred percent online donor moved from small gift to major gift to plan gift all online without ever talking to people face to face her on the phone or at an event with your non-profit and so i find that it’s, beneficial for the move donors over took to be offline donors, but again, ok, only if they want to move over because not everything. There are plenty of donors today who like a little bit of anonymity, who like a little bit who liked who liked to make those donations online, who like to read your email newsletter, look atyou on social media, but not have that personal that more personal touch, so my suggestion would be yes, now the trick really is to moving your online donors offline. Is tio seat as a system? You know you need to build a lot of non-profits crying kind of haphazardly one off, like they’ll do the price. A certain tactic to move those donors offline, maybe it’s doing some well screening and doing some calls or sending out some snail mail letters and and then it will work or it won’t work. And then, though, so it’ll be discontented and they’ll move on to something else. If you want to move your offline, don’t order. Online donors offline you need to put a strategy behind it, and you need to treat it like you do kind of direct mail prospecting or other other real measurable types of fund-raising you need to measure what you’re doing and see if it’s working and if it’s not working, then you know, try something else, but you need to you need to put a system behind what what suggestions have you got for for it, including our system? Sure. Well, there’s really? Two the two primary ways that non-profits trying move online donors offline our events and mail. So, you know there’s there’s non-profits that have success, particularly if most of their donors are local, you know, in a certain region or certain metropolitan area with having donorsearch collectibe ation events were donorsearch dank u events or larger types of types of events, or a regular system of cultivation tours of the facility, things like that, and they invite their online donors. Teo, come and connect through those types of events. Obviously the vast majority of the donors are not going to do that, but the ones who do are weeding themselves out for you there segmenting themselves for you they’re kind of raising their hand and saying, i’m super committed because i’m willing to come teo to a tour of the facility, even if it’s building is a donor thank you. Event that’s an actual investment time and energy on the other the other way that non-profits try and move online donors offline is male. You know, they try and do a do a mailing fund-raising mailing that converts some of those donors to essentially male donors, and then they try and move the donors up with line that way through a traditional capacity screening and, you know, male donor engagement strategy to move, though toe move up, move the donor’s through the funnel who have the capacity to give mohr. I’ve seen non-profit set up six have had success with both strategies. Teo do the event strategy. Obviously, most of your donors have to be local. My suggestion is to test both of them to test both of those strategies, and certainly, if you have wealth screening tools there you can. You can bring those into play and the other, frankly, the other riel indicator of an online donor. Is the number of the amount of engagement they have with your non-profit how many times do they donate online? How many times today, you know, respond open your e mails, how many times today engage with you on social media? Those are the type of metrics that show that there really engaged with your non-profit online and maybe ripe for moving off line or even moving to another level of online giving, like monthly giving entering that recurring credit card doing occurring right, an example of that, it could be an example of a hybrid between online offline depending how you structure your campaign is giving tuesday you are do i have it right? Are you e-giving tuesday denier? I am ok, i want to give. Okay, i want to give one to give voice to that we’ve had folks on from ninety second street y and in fact, this year i’m going to try to have ah to like one in may and one later, closer to the event, but i want to give voice to the to the denier, deny your camp what’s your opinion of giving tuesday. Sure. Well, i’m a big fan of giving days. For non-profits i’ve i’ve seen a lot of success with e-giving days that air run specifically for a non-profit for a particular non-profit i’m a big fan of crowdfunding in peer-to-peer campaigns online, what i’m not a fan of is particularly and and the non-profits i work with are particularly small and on the small size of side of mid sized non-profits i’m not a fan of them using what are very limited resource is for those organizations on giving tuesday because of the sheer volume of communications and fund-raising campaigns that are going on around that day, i would rather them take all the tools that they would normally use to run a successful giving tuesday campaign, which, as we all know as i’m sure, the folks who have had on who have been successful with that, i’ve told you, it’s more than just a day, right? A lot of prep work that goes into a successful giving tuesday for sure, and i’d rather than take that and move it over to e-giving day, just for their non-profit where there, what? They don’t have to compete with all of the many messages that their donors are getting, i don’t know if you’re like me, you probably are because you’re in the industry, i, you know, on giving tuesday and the days before leading up to it, i get i mean, dozens of e mails from non-profits about giving tuesday social media is packed with messages about giving tuesday and, you know, there’s two sides to argument, of course, that that buzz is going to boost it is going to raise all the ships that, well, that’s a mixed metaphor. Yeah, but you get, you know, you know what i mean? Yeah, right. That’s the argument and for me, for the organization’s i’ve worked with who have done giving tuesday, i’ve found that the amount of time number your number of staff hours that go into rising above the noise, or getting to a certain level with your donors, with awareness for your non-profit for a small non-profit that that number of hours would be better put into other fund-raising methods and moving the e-giving the e-giving daito, another day away from giving tuesday so that’s kind of my take on it. Okay, good on jeez, that was that was that was quite a mixed metaphor, but buzz raising ships. But what did you come up with this nonsense? If i had an intern that we we do? I mean, it’s not like anybody writing this it’s just all for mei apologize. Um, okay, you mentioned crowdfunding menu. We were sort of following the same sequence you like you like crowd? Well, wait, before we get to the generic crowdfunding. So what would you like to see people do on? Give me some client examples, perhaps if you like, of their own individual giving day? Sure way. You know, we have organizations that i’ve worked with where, instead of, you know, instead of doing on giving tuesday, we need we pick a day that makes sense with the organizations with their editorial counter with their market encounter with their fund-raising calendar where we name that day for that organization. You know, we call, you know, maybe it’s april third is, you know, killing off your children’s alliance day or that’s very presumption we stop that’s that’s very presumptuous of your client’s, isn’t it? You got it. You got to get out there and shake it up. You don’t have you don’t have a mayoral proclamation or anything like that, you’re just doing it on your own. It’s a great idea. We haven’t done that yet. But that’s a great idea. Yeah. Get the mouth that the mayor of philadelphia behind you. Yeah, yeah. So we we name that as our day, and we build a campaign message behind that day. And we just as with e-giving tuesday or with a with an online crowdfunding campaign, we set a goal for that day with a riel hans will outcome for that goal. You know, we say something like we want to raise twenty five thousand dollars on speak up day because we want to do x y and z we want to provide this number of scholarships or we want toe, you know, provide this number of warm meals, you know, hot meals to the homeless, and then we do all the normal things to build up to that day we put i like to put a committee behind it of people who, just as i will with a crowdfunding campaign. People who are commit to not only give that day right in the morning to show some to show some traction, but also who commit throughout the day send out an e mail to their network to be active on social media to really try and help us push it. Then we do a sequence of emails to our tow, our newsletter listeningto our donor base to prepare them for this day so that by the time the day comes around and we hit, send on the on the email that isa announcing that the day is now open, people are expecting it. People know that it’s coming, they’ve at least heard of it. And then, well, then we’re very active throughout the day. It’s, a one day crowdfunding campaign just like e-giving just like you’re giving tuesday. Sure effort is essentially a one day crowdfunding campaign except here, hopefully and that, you know, it’s not always caves, but hopefully really the only massive fund-raising messages that your donors are getting in the email and their email on social media and things that day are primarily from your non-profit yeah, it’s, your it’s your day. All right, i got it. It’s presumptions, but bold. You’ve gotta be bold, but you gotta you gotta be out there. Okay. Um, what about what about the blog’s we’re talking about online? Ah, let’s. See? You know what? I’m going to let you ruminate on that topic for a minute while i take our last break. Okay, okay. Tell us. Credit card, payment processing. Check out the video it’s at tony dot m a slash tony tell us goes through the process of businesses switching to tell us and remember how you are going to get fifty percent of telesis revenue. That’s passive revenue for you each month. You thought i was just i had lunch friendly. We’re talking about passive revenue, you know, into into retirement way. Get passive revenue some he he rents hubei’s properties and rinse them. I pay rent so i don’t have passed a revenue. But no, i don’t pay rent. Um, but you pass a revenue it’s a it’s. A good thing. You know what it means, right? It means you’re not working for every dollar. It’s just coming that’s it just comes and it comes routinely. That’s what happens a cz long is the businesses with tell us for credit card processing you’re going to get fifty percent of what tell us earns from that business times the number of businesses that you think of in your community ah, there’s a hundred percent satisfaction rate among among their non-profits and the businesses that are referred to them. Remember, if teller’s can’t save them any money, then you are going to get two hundred fifty dollars. But that’s, the that’s, the short term and that’s a short play. You don’t really want that, it’s. Not likely because tell us is probably is going to save the money. Otherwise, you’ll be writing a lot of twenty fifty dollars checks. Right? So you don’t want the short money. You want the passive revenue indefinite that long tail. Tony dot m a slash tony tello’s. Check out the video now, let’s, go back to joe garrick and wrap up with your online giving plan. Okay, so what homework did i give you? What did i just ask you to ruminate about? Do you remember what let’s talk about block? There we go. Yes. Much better than i am. I know, i know. Okay, uh, should we have a block to it? Is it is it essential anymore to have a blogger? Well, so in my mind, having a quote unquote blogged is not essential. It can be. It can be an important part of what you do but it’s not essential to have a separate page our link on your site necessary that says block what is important, whether it’s through your block, which is probably the easiest way to do this or through your sight as a whole. It’s important to have your your sight be updated regularly and to be something that makes donors want to come visit fresh, fresh content, right fresh content. Yet most non-profits have essentially a static brochure up with a donate now button and you know if they’re advanced, maybe they have a video at a newsletter sign up box, but it doesn’t change, and i always come non-profits your website can be in a really, really crucial part of your cultivation and stewardship stress, but it’s only important it’s the hub, right? If the hub is where the heart is weak, then the spokes are going to loose. Exactly exactly people don’t think that your website is that metaphor that was that was a that was a good metaphor. I’m sorry, but that was an example of a good metaphor. If they don’t think it’s informative or entertaining or, you know, compelling, they’re not going to visit it, and then it doesn’t work. So one of the mean, the easiest way to keep fresh content up on your website is a blogger there’s nothing. I hate more hearing more from non-profits then when a fundraiser says something like while we can update our own website, right, we’ve gotta get our web design team where we got that that’s crazy. You mean that there was a time when if you’re one of your website, to look nice, you had to do that, you had a have you had to make it such that you couldn’t update it yourself, but with all the modern back ends like wordpress that are available, there’s no reason that someone at your non-profit can’t go onto that website once a week or every other week or once a month and post something new and there’s a ton of things you can post there’s donorsearch stories and staff stories and clients, stories and things about your mission and things about your outcomes, things about events coming up and, you know, there’s, you know, thought leadership pieces. There is no end to the amount of things you can put up there. And what stops non-profits from doing that is they think that they have to write essentially a white paper or, you know, a master species every time they post something, they’re worried that they have to be fifteen hundred words and footnoted and it three hundred, four hundred, five hundred words up on your website that’s compelling that’s decently written that you mean, frankly, we talked about george, and earlier in the show that three of jargon that’s, you know, not technical that’s written at that sixth or seventh grade level that’s just up there that’s information, you know, informative or entertaining that gives donors a reason to at least check your website occasionally and that’s what you want. You want to give him a reason to keep coming back, so i’m a big proponent of like you said tony, fresh content up on that web site on a regular basis? What if we are hearing joe garrett say, oh, my god, three hundred, four hundred, five hundred words, i don’t i don’t i don’t think i have the time to come up, even with the low end of that three hundred. Well, i’m thinking about hiring, uh, what about what about outsourcing? Some of this what’s your opinion of getting an outsider tio provide that fresh content for you? And maybe maybe that’s not even on ly blogged, but could be facebook, twitter, your corporate page on linkedin, instagram, etcetera? Yeah, and you and you certainly can do that they’re you know, they’re certainly plenty of vendors out there we’re going to do that free it’s still going to require your time because what you don’t want to do is have a vendor who’s putting up kottler who’s, sending your content that that essentially could apply to any non-profit that sometimes what happens, right? We we get content from the outside from an outside vendor, and really, if you change this non-profit name out, it could applied any non-profit or it’s basically just rewording your case for support over and over again, or something like that in orderto and and i don’t want to suggest that that the way all vendors operate, but if you’re going to really get great content from an outside writer there going to be great at writing, they’re going to try and immerse themselves in your non-profits mission and what you do, but no. Matter what you do, they’re still going to need you to tell them about your latest outcomes your new programs you were you were, you know, help you collect your help them collect omer stories, clients, stories, things like that. So i would say, you know, if you’re if you’re thinking about, for instance, starting a block and you’re really, really concerned about the amount of time it’s going to take, i would say start from the real real low and meaning try and make a commitment that once per month just once per month, you’re going to come up with three hundred words right? On three hundred words less, which is less than a, you know, eight and a half by eleven piece of paper of one sheet that you’re going to come up with three hundred words to put up on your on your website and then then see how it goes if that works that maybe you could expand it a little bit if that’s not working. If you find that you don’t have the time in the band with, then investigate, you know, outsourcing it, but i would i would suggest, given it a shot first. And realizing again, it does not have to be we’re not talking about something that has to be perfect, it doesn’t have to be the greatest story in the world. In many cases, it just has to be something that goes up there that at least somewhat compelling to your donors and supporters. Another possibility for content is curating the content of others that’s that’s related to your mission or related to your community, you know? Ah, you know what interests your constituents, you know, you confined content from other people and, you know, call it a round up, i say we found on the found on the web and list the board, you know, bullet with links to, like, two to two or three things and there’s a lot of great content out there from others that you can use to supplement your own right. That’s exactly, i mean, and you’re right, there’s a lot of great content from from other people there’s also a lot of internal resource is that might be willing to provide content. Now, obviously, as a fundraiser, you don’t want to be in a position where you’re loading work onto the program’s staff, but you may have program folks who are excellent at writing about their experiences in the trenches that’s a green, compelling piece of content you may have boardmember who loved to write and who would love nothing more than to write a write an article where to interview a donor or two, you know, given explanation, you know, provide a provide a story about a kn event that you held that they attended. So there are a lot of ways where, you know, you’re looking for essentially, at a minimum twelve pieces of content a year, and if you can farm some of that out, then maybe you as a fundraiser are only writing a piece every other month or every third month because you have other re sources that are helping you create that content and ah, perfect example, tony, is what you said, which is to around up, post or a top ten, you know, top ten tips post, you know, if your if your organization that’s working in, you know, in healthcare non-profit maybe you’ve got a tip post you can post about how people can stay healthy in a certain respect so there’s a lot of different ways to go about it. You have ideas around personalized video for cultivation. Now we just have about two minutes left, joe garrick so you know you, teo constrain yourself, but what advice do you have around personalized video, right? So one of the new ideas one of the more innovative ideas that i’ve that we’ve used and that i love, is using personalized videos to stewart and cultivate, particularly stuart, you were mid level donorsearch if their donors out there who were giving it a level where he would like to offer them more cultivation, but you don’t have the time or and it doesn’t make sense, go out, meet with them. One thing, some non-profits air doing is a development director or a board number will sit in front of the computer and record thirty second videos using the donor’s name, personalizing it to their gift, thanking them for their gift and then emailing it out to them and it’s a way that you could do personalize stewardship. You can do, you know, fifteen or twenty of these videos in an hour and send them all out in the same amount of time it would take to meet. With one donor. Awesome. You did that in just one minute. Okay. Okay. Andi, you have clients doing that successfully? Yes. Yeah, very successfully. And and donors tender. I mean right now, it’s kind of new nobody, not many organizations. They’re doing it. So right now, i would say get double. In fact, in fact, we’ve had clients where significant a not insignificant number of donors actually call. Call the person who sends them the video to say how much they liked. The video, you know, leads to a whole different level of interaction. Not surprised. Awesome. That’s a great tip. Toe end on he’s. Joe garrett, president of garrett fund-raising associates, garrick dot com. And at joe garret joe garrett. Thank you. So, so much. Thanks for sharing. You bet. Thanks, tony. My pleasure. Next week, build your grantmaker relationships. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing unlike tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com tell us. Credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dot, m a slash tony tell us our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Shows social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit medio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Treyz what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and, uh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five.

Nonprofit Radio for February 2, 2018: Your Donor Experience

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Brian Lauterbach: Your Donor Experience

What are you putting your donors through? How do they feel about it? What can you do to make it better? Brian Lauterbach is with Network for Good and he walks us through what works.

 

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s ground hog day. Thanks, tony fail emerges and gives us his prediction for winter today also, this is show number three hundred seventy five on our way to four hundred, which will be in july three seventy five today we have a new affiliate station w c r s fm, columbus, ohio central ohio’s community radio station at ninety two point seven and ninety eight point three fm welcome to the affiliate family w c r s so glad to have you affections to those affiliate listeners. I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into a pure a phobia if you told me that forever after and eternity you’d miss today’s, show your donor experience. What are you putting your donor’s through? How do they feel about it? What can you do to make it better? Brian lauterbach is with networks for good and he walks us through what works. Tony’s take two, know when to pull out. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio and by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers regular sepa is dot com tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us it’s my pleasure to welcome brian latto back to the show. He is vice president of programs, impact and sustainability that’s, a big portfolio at network for good. Leading a national team of consultants, he’s worked as a professional fundraiser and consultant for a hundred plus non-profits over twenty years, he’s talked fund-raising and non-profit management at george washington university, indiana university and wayne state university. Midwestern boy he’s at b r lauterbach. They’re at network for good dot com, where f l r is spelled out, and they’re at network for good, where number four is the arabic number. You don’t don’t use the roman numeral four, because then you’d be doing network ivy. Good, don’t do that. Use the arabic number four. Welcome brian latto back buy-in brian. Brian latto box. Okay, we don’t have brian. Hopefully he will call back in, but we also have in the studio lisa bonano, who is vice president of digital marketing for network fur. Good. And she and i will chat while, uh well, brian, hopefully calls back called back. Welcome. Thanks. Thanks for having us welcome. Thanks for being in the studio. Absolutely ghastly. I love that corporate us, your your team. Even though brian is not with us in spirit, you’re you bring him in by the problem. You’re all you’re all you’re all with us. Ok? Do we have brian back? Sam? No. Okay, um, we’re talking about dahna experience. You’re on the way. We thought it was going to brian toe open, but you’re the opener. Okay, i’ll take it so donorsearch spear ian ce uh, what were we talking about? So dinner experience is an interesting topic for us because we see so much commentary around consumer experience. Many reports many sets of thought leadership pieces and everyone in the consumer space is trying to understand why customer experience is so important. And now that everyone is on board with why now, it’s everyone’s trying to figure out the how so for us and i work for good, you know, we’re providers of donorsearch software we’re constantly thinking about how can we improve the donor experience for our non-profit customer? Okay? And we can learn from the customer experience on the corporate side exact. Hopefully you and brian. Well, we will be talking about not hopefully. Okay, let’s, try again, brian. You with us? I am. Excellent. There’s a nice, strong voice. Did you hear that wonderful introduction i gave you? I didn’t, didn’t. Okay, well, but i felt it from the cold hundred. Columbus. Ok. Ok. Well, first of all, you’re in columbus, ohio, where you didn’t hear that we have a brand new affiliate station in columbus, the u c r s fm joining us, joining us this week. First time that’s. Wonderful. Now is if i would have known that and i want to go, i would have yeah, they’re they’re not with us live though they know that’s very ambitious. It would have been cool. Yeah, they were on their schedule on thursdays at four p m they leave us in so that the filling station they’re not live, but now so columbus is columbus, you’re home. No, columbus is a inconvenient layover route from chicago. Okay, against the good buckeye people, but i’m just saying that. Yeah, and unforeseen way, les, thanks to the airline with nevertheless, here we are. Yeah. No, no, we’re yeah, i know we’re going to focus on the transit for a little bit. Don’t worry. We’ll get we’ll get to dahna experience there’s plenty of time together. So you were originating from where? Today? From chicago. Okay. And then there was a connecting flight that got delayed. Is that right? That what happened? Delayed, then cancelled on dh. Yeah, and then re booked for later time. I understand. And it wasn’t going to get you here in time. Okay? Don’t you know, they have to delay before they re book. You really? I mean, they have to delay before they cancel. You realize that, right? We have to be led on buy-in fifteen or twenty minute increments, and then then they’ll give you the ultimate the cancellation, which you are all you know, anticipating as you were being led on thinking, oh, fifteen or twenty minutes. But if you travel enough, it sounds like you do. You knew that you were just being led on it’s just a matter of time before they cancel. Absolutely. Did you hear lisa give a very cogent introduction tio to a donor experience? Did you hear that or no, i did. Yes, okay, always does. Okay, s o ah, anything you want to you want to add in the sort of overviewing we have a full hour together, obviously to go into details, but i thought you’d like to add to the overview of dahna experience, i think i think, you know, beyond the obvious and what networks for good is doing with technology and software and services for, you know, the one hundred twenty five thousand organizations that we touch each year. What we’ve been talking a lot internally about is how do we operationalize this donorsearch experience, but and from a top level, what we’re talking about is this concept of subscription giving the idea that, you know, not unlike content marketing description giving is what we’re what we’re discussing and how we can align information and inspirational content with the non-profit stakeholders to really engage them, not only just leading up to a gift, but what happens. After that gift is made because, as we all know where now the listeners know that you know, donorsearch retention certainly is something that we all should focus on habitually, but now coming up for air after giving tuesday in year, and we have to really think about it from the donor’s perspective, what is it that we can provide them and an ongoing and cost effective basis that wilkie remind them about not only what they did but the value and impact that it has not just about a fundraising goal, but really about the programmatic impact that it creates for the organisation that this donorsearch invested in? Okay, okay, there’s a lot in there, we’re going to have we have the hour to unpack it, and when we come back from this break, which i’m about to teo, enter, then we’ll get to this idea of the experience and howto had a planet for for your for your donors. So stay with us while we take this break. Pursuant the field guide for data driven fund-raising it is their newest resource on the listener landing page, which is now at tony dahna slash pursuant radio note, the new bentley the new custom bentley. Okay, tony dahna slash pursuant radio that’s their listener landing page. No surprise with this kind of content, this field field guide because the company is data driven and as where are we saying? Technology enabled, but focusing on the data the field guide, it is of a paper that will make your data less daunting so what’s in it they got five high level steps you can take to translate your business objectives into action. Real world case studies so you, khun benchmark and a worksheet with thought starters to help your team find the right focus and start to build this data driven culture that you you wantto you want to achieve it’s the field guide for data driven fund-raising at tony dahna em a slash pursuant radio. Now, let’s, go back to brian latto back and your donor experience. And so brian let’s let’s do what i what i pledged, how do you how do you think through this? In terms of a and you’re you’re you’re in a small midsize non-profit how do u plan what this donor experiences spectrum of activities and contacts and communications is going to look like? Yeah, i think first, what we have to do a small, emerging and midsize non-profits is embrace the reality that just because we’re tax exempt doesn’t mean we’re tech exempt the idea that because of our budget size, we can ignore the consumer behavior of companies like netflix and apple and google, and what they created and really institutionalized could not be further from the truth, of course, as small non-profits we have to figure out a way to replicate some of those things and embrace that consumer behavior that stage appropriate with are, you know, staff or lack thereof and certainly budget in time, our most precious asset. But it really begins with an understanding that you, as are we as a nonprofit organization or is a sector, cannot just be the lagging adopters of how to create an experience for not our consumers but our donors. And because those same consumers that are buying things on amazon subscribing the netflix, i’m getting new information about their movies and tv shows. Well, those guys are also our donors as well. So the idea that we can have this incongruous experience because, well, we’re a non profit organisation, could not. Be further from the reality. Yeah, we don’t like that. Yeah, yeah. That’s zoho that’s kind of a, you know, sort of a poverty mentality. We don’t mean it like that, right? I got to do something. Yeah. What about s o z explosive labbate what can we learn specifically from these high touch cos that you’re mentioning netflix, amazon were all engaged with them. We’re all getting their emails. We what? What? What specifically could be a couple of takeaways that that we can weaken gleaned from the corporate side? Yeah, the biggest thing i would think you know, whether you’re subscribing to a software or buying sweater or dog food online, the idea is what these companies do very well and what we was sector would be well served to embrace, let alone with our replicator. Is that the idea that when you buy something, these companies not only continue to remind you why you bought it and the value of that purchase, but they also want to make sure that you are satisfied with that purchase. So you will buy mohr by again. Upgrade your subscription. So the idea that you can buy something and the transaction is complete. Well, that may be true, but the relationship is just beginning. And so what? I think some of these, you know, larger companies, as you said, tony, all of us are kind of plugged into as consumers and buyers, we need to think about why they create this continuum of contact and activity and what i love about it. Most of them, especially my favorite, is netflix because they aren’t intrusive about their ongoing engagement. I get an email, i mean, sure, i’m sure it’s timed and based upon data and when they know i oktay now, but my point is that i always opened that because i get no more than two females a month from netflix that, you know, is highly visually engaging, low on written content and compels me to take an action which is, you know, watch this new show that that’s like the other show that you have been watching so it’s almost there, almost helping me use their product and exploit the functionality of you know, i get thes e mails, i get them from mm, hbo, i have their ah, hbo. Now i get them from amazon prime. I get them. From land’s end, you know, and i’m i’m in fact, i think i’m wearing a lance and sweater. Lisa, this is the lands and mock turtle. Thank you very much. Oh, yeah, she just said it was your mike on when she said looks great. So again, you look great. Thank you very much. Your lands and very well, ok keeper mike on way like her. Yeah, keeping michael um yeah, so, you know, and i’m a i mean, you know, i get thes e mails, and i sometimes i’m amazed at how interested i am in them voice is cracking like a thirteen year old interested, you know how often i read them? It’s it’s um, sometimes i sit back and, you know, it was like the fourth email this week, you know, from land’s end and i’m still opening it and reading the things and saying the same thing with the with the media ones i get because, well, you know, there was a sense of incredibly words help you do that because you were happy with your purchase and you you were made to feel good. You you, you you like wearing that sweater, and so you’re open to getting mohr information from in this case, land’s end because, um, you jump through the hoop and they jumped through yours well, and as you per said there, reminding me of the value i get and the satisfaction i get, you know, definitely worded communications. Lisa yeah, i wouldn’t pick up on some of that brian had had thrown out there about the word relationship, so even though we’re not using the word relationship that’s really what we’re describing here, right through these emails, through these touches they are, you know, in their their marketing code, building this relationship with you, unbeknownst to you right through through all these different communications and how they’re inviting brian to try a new a new piece of content or listened to a podcast or watch a movie and i think that’s one of the things we’re recognizing there’s only one podcast that people should be listening to and it’s this one it’s twenty martignetti non-profit in case you were confused, yes, in case there’s, any questions? So, you know, i know there are hundreds of thousands, but this should be when you’re down, you should be at the top. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, our our donors or definitely thinking about how do i build that relationship? I’m sorry, non-profits or thinking about how do i build that relationship with thes donor is much like on the consumer side, and i think the interesting new wrench in, um and the cycle is and i love for for, for brian even talk more about this guy he’s a lot of thoughts on this is that you have these new entrance, these new platforms, which you’re making it extremely easy for everyone to collect donors and b i’m sorry collectibe nations and be kind of fun raisers on behalf of non-profits they can set up a fundraising page very quickly for the causes that they love and invite all of their network of community in teo to make a donation on the b on behalf of the non-profit and then on the experience is so important, you know, teo, to reinforce, you know, the what what lisa just outlined for us is that you’re not going to get people to become committed advocates to your organization just by virtue of facilitating a filling provoc transact, you have to create a qualitative experience that reinforces not only the value of what they did, but the impact that it has, and when they can connect those two things value it, impact they they’re going to want to fly their flag, so to speak alongside yours and tell everyone that they court this organization, they’re proud of that. But then, as lisa suggested, they take that first and next action in terms of non-profit ask assi and start to do something for you on and on helping you raise money and spread awareness are two of the easiest things that certainly technology enables, but are the natural next thing’s a happy and committed donor for ought to do for your organization? I’d like to think this transactional mentality is a thing of the past, you know, and should be anachronistic by now, but but i think that a lot of non-profits it’s not, you know, they i feel like we got a gift and we’ll say thank you, and we’ll come back in the next cycle, whatever our next campaign is or what, whatever our next need is and that’s that’s antithetical to everything that you’re saying this transactional mentality needs to be a relationship mentality. Lisa, you know, at least we know we’re talking about relationships you need i mean, you wouldn’t just invite your parents over for thanksgiving dinner and then not talk to them again until christmas, you know, because that’s, your next campaign is to get them to come for christmas dinner. Oh, you know, maybe you should be going to them if you don’t have children, you should be going to them because you’re more mobile, but anyway, you know, so too much detail, but, yeah, i’m getting it, and we’re going to end up being my therapist by the end of this. And but, you know, in all fairness to the small organization and the chief, everything officer is out there that runs that you know, what it takes is blocking, tackling some time in your schedule to be able to not only think about or created experience, but deliver on it, it needs to be stage appropriate and aligned with your, you know, your constraints, not just your limited resources and, you know, as those small and even side’s non-profit organizations think about how to create that experience, well, they really need to think about the tools that they used there’s more and more options out there that can that can create, you know, automated e mails, autumn and automated tech messages that some of stuff that we do it now for good kind of the the phrase that lisa uses a lot, you know, when talking about this internally is, you know, set it and forget it, not that not forget it, because it’s not important, but you designed this experience and operationalized deployed with technology, and then you can evaluate it and make sure the metrics are lining with some of your bigger goals, not not necessarily financial but relationship goals and bridle the idea that your small non-profit that you can’t do this, you can’t afford not not this longer. And, you know, i know there’s, you know, some purists and traditionalists think about giving tuesday as this one and done phenomena. Well, maybe sometimes it is, but it doesn’t have to be, and it shouldn’t be because the number one thing that when i talked to, uh, non-profits throughout the country is that they’re they’re so focused on the ask and getting that done and getting it out, they forget that the ask or getting that gift is the first step in a series of many steps that you need to not only create an experience, but two to begin a relationship. Brian zoho i was just in north carolina earlier this week talking about two hundred non-profits and all these town halls and learned that not many of them has have even had the opportunity two thank all they’re giving tuesday donors and their december thirty first donor. And so but what? We need to understand that thanking someone for a gift does not inexperienced create yeah, okay, that’s a irs compliance thing, you know, thank you for your tax deductible give no good services were exchanged, blah, blah, blah, but and that isn’t the achievement. The achievement is what’s next, how do you communicate what they did and how and why, how it creates impact for the organization? Okay, let’s, let’s, start diving into some detail now, i think we’ve spent enough time with the motivation can we can we agree that segmentation of your your donor community is essential to a za basis of what we’re talking about? Being able to do without a doubt? Ok, but it depends on how well we’re going to get you up. So what? What should we be? What should be be segmenting by what? What? What do we want to learn from from the transaction that will help us in the really build the relationship? Yeah, so i would say, you know what? How did the gift come to you? Right? So not so much the channel. Like, was it online or in the mail, but rather what was the vehicle that compelled someone to give? And so, you know, in a in a very basic construct of segmentation, you know, a non donor-centric attendee versus a donor, someone that has current or last giving history, those air three distinct segments that all has nuanced, uh, information metoo and so a cz well, as you know, the business or the foundation, because what often happens thiss time of year when people think about you no acknowledgement letters, it’s, basically, they dump all the data into the spreadsheet, or if there are hopefully some sort of donor management system, uh and then spit out the receipts and it’s this monolithic message that doesn’t doesn’t acknowledge why someone are from where someone case, because i think all of this, as practitioners would agree that someone who came to an event that you hosted versus someone that gave on giving tuesday had a different point of entry experience with your organization and air go needs to be that needs to be acknowledged and dumping them all into one funnel and hoping for the best isn’t going to do that isn’t going to do the job, okay, so we’re looking at segmenting by, you know, we want to learn what the person gave to ah programmatically, basically where they came from, right? How did they find us and what they’re what their interests are, perhaps beyond what they gave to sew that so that we can we can focus our communications to them a marry my lisa, my on the right amount, right track? You’re exactly right. I s exactly right, not even just the right track for the needle a little bit more say, you know, we kind of talked about how there’s so many parallels obviously i’m head of marketing so there’s, so many parallels in what would you do on the marketing on the for-profit side and what we’re encouraging non-profits to do when it comes. To dahna retain retention, you know their revenue line is thes these donors making making contributions? Ditigal must think like, how do i get that recurring? How do i create the subscription model? How do i get in front of these donors and connect to them in the way they want to be connected? Teo much like how brian said he loves being connected that twice twice a month cadence with a with a message about what toe reader or watch next so it’s knowing why that donor is giving to you what is drawing to them, drawing them to your organization that you can then capitalize on was it that specific program that you’re offering to teo, you know, malnourished children? Is that the program you’re offering over here to do to do this, that the other knowing what’s drawing them and connecting them to your organization is literally the foundation for building that relationship and ultimately building community and look at the corporate analogies that we were talking about earlier, you know, why is amazon stock at twelve hundred dollars a share and continuing to grow? Because you know the messages we get from them? Well, other people who into interested in what you purchased were interested in these other things also related connecting point related to yes, real connection to what drew you in you might also be interesting these things so the analog we have these other programs that may be of interest to you because of what you gave to last year, that zaveri basic, but that right and that’s, why segmenting and having having a tool at your disposal so you can segment those donors in a line likes with likes to say the’s owners all came in because they care about this type of program and that’s what they’re that’s their connection to this non-profit versus this segment that might have a different reason, a different draw to the non-profit that that allows a non-profit to message very specifically and deliberately to those segments in a more congress, in and measured way. And so often, i mean, brian knows is even better than the most so often when you talk to non-profits they barely have the infrastructure that they need to support the bare basics, like he was saying thank you for your donation is not even like it’s, not even a step. Up from from the bare basics of building that community and those relationships, brian, anything you want to add? Yeah, i think the other thing is, while segmentation is optimal, consistency is essential. And ah, you know, if an organization has the capacity and the wherewithal of technology to do some basic segment, by all means, my gosh, do it because it improves results, but for those that can’t you got to put a stake in the ground and at least create an experience that presumes that organization or excuse me donorsearch port your organization not because they wanted a tax receipt, but because they care about what you do. You know, i think what non-profits really need to think hard and long about is this, you know, that i believe donors don’t give to hear organization they give through it. And as soon as you embrace that, this idea that donors are outsourcing their desire for public good and impact in their community, teo you the non-profit because you’re set up to do it, that suddenly changes the paradigm and should change the communication dynamic to one of thank you to one of accountability and ongoing accountability. Okay, so that’s a no that’s your your message you’re suggesting consistency? Yeah, murcott consistency makes things easier to measure if you have apples to apples. If you’re creating the same experience for every donor let’s say that gives online, you know that they’re gonna receive one two and three at these intervals, then you khun then if you implement that with consistency, you khun start to measure its efficacy. Okay, okay, hold that we’re going to continue their we’ll take another break standby. We’re gonna see piela i love this testimonial that that they have. This is my first year and we’re growing non-profit weinger cpas was completely attentive and gave the impression as if they were right next door when handling our review engagement. Even though we’re in a different state, they made me feel like we were the only client they had blah, blah, blah gushing, gushing, amazing, effusive praise all while feeling supported and genuinely cared for in the process. Endquote supported and genuinely cared for that’s from cps. Right? So i’m is like you. Would you expect that from something like lift or uber, or curb or grab or ola and allies for our moon by listener? We have we actually have a live listener in mumbai and we often having from delhi. So i added, i had a lot to that. You know, these air sepa is they’re they’re not bellman there, not front desk associates agents, really, but associates, if you like concierges elevator operators, i’d like to stay in classic hotels, housekeepers, restaurant managers. Are they servers or bus boys? No, no thiss gushing praise is for cps on that bike, by the way, and that testimonial was from a small cancer research non-profit on the east coast. So we’re not just talking big non-profits taking advantage of of wagner cpas. This was small organization. Check them out. Witness cps, dot com. And then, you know, do what i always advocate. Pick up the phone, give them a call, see if it works. And the person you want to talk to is the partner you eat. Which tomb? You touched him. You know him. Because he’s been on the show twice. He’s he’s. The first time he was on, he had this genius idea. You’re nine, ninety as a marketing tool. Who would think of that? That this ubiquitous nine. Ninety that’s on guide. Star and it’s, your your attorney, general’s office and it’s ah, charity navigator. If you’re bigger or ge, use it as a marketing tool. Use the narrative space in there to promote your your work. Don’tjust recite from your from your from your statement of inc. You know, use it more smartly. That’s yeats. Ok, so wagner, cps dot com talk to you coached him he’s been a guest, you know, he’s bona fide. Totally legit. The jetta means more than legit he’s brilliant regular cps dot com okay, now, time for tony steak too. You gotta know when to pull out of a bad donorsearch relationship we’re talking about dahna relationships today i was on a cruise thiss one idea came from st so while i was in st kitts, i got stimulated and i started to think about pulling out. Now what we’re talking about, you could just have to watch the video to get to learn see what got me thinking, but you don’t want to pull a push a bad position with a donor if if this if the if the signals are negative, you know they’re not returning your calls they give, but they give considerably less than you’re always asking. They’re not turning out for events despite repeated invitations. These air all signals that it’s a bad relationship. It’s. Well, it’s it’s, not a growing relationship, and you need to spend your valuable time cultivating. Face-to-face you know, this is your face-to-face cultivation time, someone who’s going to be more forthcoming for you. There are other ways to cultivate the donors that are not forthcoming, but in terms of your face-to-face relationship, you know, major gift time, you have to move on when when this the signals are negative from your donors and that is tony’s take two now, let’s, go back, teo well, before we go back to brian, we’ve got to do the live listener love, and we have lots of live listeners live listener loves going out tio tacoma, washington, say los angeles, california, woonsocket, rhode island, new york, new york multiple we got multiple new york, new york woodbridge, woodbridge i told you, you have to identify yourself, you’re you’re upsetting me. Woodbridge, new jersey. You’re so consistent listening. I want to know who you are. Please, please. I’m gonna stop shutting you out now. I wouldn’t do that. But the live lister love is going out to woodbridge in jersey. Yes. Tampa, florida. Uh, let’s. Go abroad, germany. Good dog, orilla canada. Is it? Orilla looks like a really canada welcome live. Listen, love there. We’ve got tehran, iran, we’ve got as i said, mumbai, india. Andi got sent to cruise the tenor teeth in spain when it started the live listen, love always goes out and on the heels of that has to go the affiliate affections to our way it supposed be podcast pleasantries. What would do the affiliate affections? First to our affiliate station listeners throughout the country dozens of stations carrying the show affections to those listening on their and their local am and fm stations. And, of course, we again. Welcome to the family. W crs in columbus, ohio, were brian’s calling from and the podcast pleasantries to the over twelve thousand listeners on the podcast listening on your own schedule pleasantries to you. So glad that you are with us. You are the book of our audience. And i thank you for being with us pleasantries to the podcast listeners. Now, let’s, go back to buy-in brian latto back and lisa padano talking about your donor experience. Okay, brian, anything else you can flush out detail wise about consistency, the consistency in those messaging? Yeah, i think it comes down to what it is that you’re going to measure because you know the old adage you can’t manage what you can’t measure, so you know, some of the things while obviously, the ultimate goal is to get a second gift or renewal at the time of an appeal. But you know, some of things that you need to be looking at under the hood to inform or you have to inform whether or not your experience is a good one is you gotta look at open rates, you gotta look at, click through rate and shares on social media, and my experience has been that, you know, there are so many digital tools out there that you can use to operationalize, let alone create your donor experience. But for those of us that our resource constraints you know, i think the basic donorsearch panitch mint system that can help you deploy emails but then also integrates ah, your facebook and your website. If you could make those things work, you’re going to be able to make a donor experience work. But the key thing as we talked about before the break is you have to be able to measure it, and measurement means consistent execution, and this is something that should be thought through. This donor experience by the organization, and not necessarily just the talent and tenacity of the fundraiser that’s employed by the organization. Okay, you know what, brian? Hold on, you know, it’s exactly right? I mean, i’m thinking about all the different calculators that not network for good has to literally walk a non-profit through the different metrics they should be thinking about, they’re donorsearch tension rate, their return on investment, if they’re spending certain amount of money on on a particular campaign, what is it bringing in? So we have we have brought kind of forward these metrics that they’re not intuitive to non-profits to say these air something’s, the highest level you should be paying attention to and then from that you can and they okay, how do i actually operationalize it into my non-profit brian’s, exactly, right? This is not a fundraisers problem to be solved it so isolating when non-profit seeing the way it is a non-profits problem to solve how do we operationally think about the money we need to bring in to support the programs you wantto we want to serve and that and carry out our mission? So bye by knowing what we’re doing so, it’s not just spaghetti up on the wall, let’s see what sticks thinking, you know, count, count, count, let six and be like, oh, yeah, we got ten threads upon the wall versus for the last time. So knowing what you’re aiming for being more more targeted with that segmentation being consistent and thought and and measurement you can only win, give me an idea of some of the things that we should analytics that we should be looking at. Yeah, there are a few, you know, i mentioned dahna retention rate. So how many of your donors are coming back repeatedly your year after year? Or ask after ask you want to be looking at your return on campaigns of your spending a certain amount of money for a direct mail drop? How much are you getting in return? Is it above a dollar? You know, you pay a dollar, get a dollar, you’re at least break even. You’re not you’re not losing money so there’s air, you know, to at the highest level. And then there were other ones, like brian was mentioning even a click through rate. You know how many of your e mails are going through what’s the hygiene of your of your donor list, you know, are you sending emails and they’re they’re bouncing or their hard bouncing, you know you need to be cleaning up that the database, otherwise the message is never going to be reached. So it’s, how many people are being reached are the clicking through? Are they is your is a language for which your packaging, that message appealing and that’s measured through that click through rate? Are they clicking the bait right? Are they? Are they following through on your ask so these are also, yeah, that everyone should should take note of that for my experiences of annual fund warrior for small and large organizations alike when it comes to donor experience, if you are getting a fifty percent click through rate on your engagement and retention emails, you are ninety percent more likely o r ninety times more likely rather to get a second gift within the same fiscal year, because what that fifty percent click through rate means is that you’re delivering the relevant content at an appropriate frequency that is peeking their interest. And if you’re doing that right, that means that you have someone that’s engaged and wants to consume the information that you’re putting out, and that should not stop any non-profit from asking again because it’s, an engaged enthusiastic on pre advocate donor-centric get a second gift, and the reason why that’s hugely important is there’s a lot of talk and commentary around the average of retention rate is what forty five percent or something make like that bryant yet the cost per acquisition is so high, so just like on the consumer side and the for-profit side it’s much more cost effective to retain a customer or donor-centric require new one. I’ve had lots of lots of guests say that exact same thing, i think the retention baizman like twenty five or thirty percent on dh, i’ve had many guests emphasized that, and as you said, you know, the cost of the cost of acquisition is so much higher than been retaining and and and it’s, you know, a relationship you don’t want. We’re trying to build relationships, you don’t want people dropping off that’s, this’s action just bad, bad for business. Yeah, and it just doesn’t feel good, you know? It is transactional, right? Right. Um okay. Let’s sum let’s. Just switch gears a little bit about some examples. Brian, you got you got a maybe a small midsize non-profit example, you khun, you can share with us of someone that improved. You know, the analytics improved fund-raising improved, etcetera. Yeah. One of my new favorite organizations called one pulse. They’re based its just outside of los angeles. Actually met the founder and executive director of twenty something year old in a coffee shop. When i was out there, unconference and anyways, fast forward gave him, you know, the technology stack from that good that he needed. And not only did he increase the number of donors that he had by about two hundred percent he’s up to about, you know, four hundred, donors now, but the major headline is that of those four hundred, you know, more than three hundred of them gave again. And then about one hundred fifty of them gave more than they did last year. And so when we unpack that this guy’s, the classic chief everything officer it’s one guy who has more passion than he does. Ah, grass of his, you know, time constraints and makes it all happen. He made it all happen by simply exploiting the functionality of technology, and that is setting up an email drip campaign that has a simple and very compelling image in it and a clever subject line in less than fifty words of content that that reminded a donor what the organization is doing every month, but also tells them the impact of what their support meant to the organization as relates to delivering, executing and scaling programs. And to me, it doesn’t get much better than that on dh it all comes down to, you know, intentionality and leveraging the existing functionality of his, you know, small but mighty software back, yeah, lisa yeah, well, i was just going to say a cz brian was talking. I was literally thinking about ah, conversation i was having with one of our product people. We were not is here having this conversation around, you know, the thought leadership of dahna experience, why it’s important? You know, we were living and breathing it and how we think about our product. We’re iterating on our product design all the time in this agile way of how is the donor touching this donor form? How are they choosing to click this button over this button? How would the font appear over this background versus this background? These of the thoughts and questions were talking about internally and never forget all the time, so we can always serve up that best tool and solution for our non-profits so they can then in and have the best experience for for their donors and bringing the most the most funding. So i think that it’s, it’s, it’s not just, you know, as you know, sitting here talking and, you know, it’s it’s a living, breathing, exactly. We’re living and breathing, and we’re kind of taking our own advice and thinking about how can we turn around this superior product that is putting donorsearch mirian ce kind of frontal lobe? Yeah, so we so where we need to encourage hyre non-profits to listeners to be very intentional and really and also a lot of testing i mean, it could be, you know, you may you may just have the wherewithal to do just simple abie testing one email, subject line versus another email subject line, right? Just not to be overly complex exactly right, but a lot of a lot. Of intention has to go into it, you know, the sort of slapdash thing that’s put together by an intern, you know, it doesn’t really know the organization that, well, it’s, you’re going to get returns consistent with the effort and thought that an intentionality that goes into it. Okay, all right, let’s, take our our last break. Lisa. Brian, if you would stand by for me, tell us credit card and payment processing, you could check out their video at tony dahna slash tony tell us explains the process of how business has switched to tell us and how you the non-profit that referred the business gets fifty percent of the revenue from the from the from all the transactions. Now this is transactional is talking about credit card transactions and fees and as tell us, earns fees from the companies that you refer, you get fifty percent of what they earn that simple. Okay, also, because you’re non-profit radio listener, if tello’s cannot reduce their credit card processing fees, then they’re going to send you two hundred fifty dollars. That part, that two hundred fifty dollars bonus is only for non-profit radio listeners. But i gotta tell you, it’s, probably not likely because odds are tell us is going to be able to save the money and that’s going to encourage the business to switch over, to tell us and then forget the two hundred fifty dollars, you’ve got a indefinite revenue stream because as that company processes credit card transactions, you are getting fifty percent of the revenue that tello’s earns from all those transactions indefinitely tell us, has one hundred percent satisfaction rate, so those businesses are not going to be leaving long tail passive revenue for you. Check it out, tony dahna em a slash tony, tell us. Thank you very much. Brian and lisa stood by. You stood by studiously. Alright, you’re not doing backchannel communications. Are you? Every every sponsor’s name tony. Oh, the girls are yeah. Are we talking about brandon? I was talking about consistency. We’re talking about message. I’m liking it. Tony dahna slash. We’re gonna have to come up with something for ah networked for good. We’re going to be on board. Where? There’s a lot to say about that coming up in the future. Future? Um, like march time. So yeah, i mean consistency branding, messaging right, you got it by learning something from seven and half years of listening to experts. Okay, um, you’re good student let’s. See? Thank you. Is that it? The not mentor? Not qualified to be a mentor. Coach. Student. Okay, like freshmen neo-sage thank you very much. A few more years, right? Shut off the mike. Now that we’ve had enough of her off, i was let’s. Go back to the lands and shirts like greater color. Like that part better. Yes. All right. So, brian, you’re not feeling left out there, are you, brian? No, not at all. Okay, you’re supposed to be here. We should. We should. I just wanna make this explicit met. Maybe i was probably understood early on, but you were supposed to be here. That was the whole point. You’re trying to get here in the studio, so we didn’t want you, but, you know, by phone is second. Yeah. Let’s. Talk about experience, right? Yeah. You’re years of experience. Customer experience today was not good. Yeah. That’s. That’s. Correct. Okay, i’m not going to ask you which which airlines you’re gonna fly, but you can tweet them. You know that you network for good has a lot of followers don’t. You probably didn’t want the corporate. Well, i know if it was the corporate card, if you have some degree of corporate sabat dissatisfaction that the the other vice president couldn’t get here, right? Okay, it was the corporate card. Maybe network for good should be tweeting. I don’t know who was we won’t say. All right, we only with a deposit of shout outs here. Um, okay, let’s, switch gears a little bit. Brian, i’m interested in some trends that you might be seeing emerging since we’re in the early stages of twenty eighteen. What what are you seeing coming on the horizon this year and beyond? Yeah, so a couple of things, i think the first is a real desire to, uh, automate fund-raising activities that all of this you’re not, you know, replace humans and, you know, the old fashioned stuff that works the best. But, you know, kind of what i was saying earlier, the senate forget it. Let’s design and experience and let’s put it in motion and watch it work for us, you know, kind of like engagement while we sleep. You are well non-profits we don’t upleaf we focus on delivering program, but you get what i’m saying, so that is one of the, i think, quickly growing emerging trends and feast out there, the sector and that is, what can we do to automate ous much of this experience so that we don’t have to be, you know, conjuring up emails every week and creating bliss, deploying them and testing subject line? Yes, but that that, uh the idea is, what do we do to create an experience that we think is the first and best generation and deploy it starts a man to measure it, you know? So what, we’re really keen from ten thousand feet is moving beyond donor-centric mint and really starting to talk about donor it’s one thing to make sure you have all your names and gift amounts and addresses in a cr m r donor-centric management system that’s great, but that that now is kind of like the most functional basics of fund-raising now you need to expand the aperture and say, well, what can we do to actually engage our donors with technology and not just doing it through, you know, likes and follows on facebook? But what do we do to automate some of those? Yeah, because it is. How do we make that accessible to small organizations that deposed tio? Very large ones that would buy, you know, hub spot for marquette owes or, you know, all those big, huge automation. And and so what we see is increased chadband interest and experimentation with automation of as much of the fund-raising function beginning with communication is possible. And automation does not have to sacrifice personalization that, you know, we just had it. Pardon me, brian. What you say got no gosh, no. Okay. Good. I got you. Okay. Yeah, we just had i just had a me sample ward on ceo of inten, our social media contributor last week. E-giving you know, very much the same sort of future. Look, andi, she explained how in ten of an organization that has an office in portland, oregon, but also has employees virtually uses automation toe run their office and to maintain their membership of, like, forty thousand or so. You know what? Maybe the membership is not big, but their constituencies, like forty five thousand, something personalization is definitely i mean, this is your right, brian. We’re past you. Know, get off spreadsheets moved to a crn now use that cr m segment and you don’t have to sacrifice personalization, lisa’s, champion jumper the bitter no, i was just going to say, you know, we we we cast forward it’s interesting because the the ese for which it is to give has changed, and platforms like facebook, among others, have completely changed that dynamic and is actually creating an interesting situation for non-profits because in one breath, you want to say how lovely all this money is coming in twenty five bucks at the clip from all these different directions, my revenue line is growing, but then when you dig a little deeper and it’s like, but are you able to build a community with those folks, are you able to get them to become the subscription? Geever exgagement true engagement it’s a lot harder for these non-profits to think about how do i turn that transactional giver? Because maybe tony you gave cause? Bryan asked you, right? But you don’t have a connection to my non-profit you know, i have to go back to you, tony, and say, hey, how can i build a relationship with you? How? Can i engage you, tony, and thread you into what i am doing over here into my mission? So you feel compelled to give on your own whether brian asked or not? So that kind of yeah, no, please go point it comes into, uh donorsearch mirian there’s also relationship between donor experience and board participation and fund-raising now we all probably accept as no one joins the board so they can ask their friends and family for money. But if staff does it, writing creek, that culture of philanthropy than and equipped trained board’s view it, then something good happens. But my point here is my experiences sends that boardmember zehr, reticent to ask their friends, come for money because non-profits are habitually poor at creating an experience that makes that boardmember feel proud and that’s not to say that boardmember is ashamed of the organization, but what the boardmember doesn’t want is that that donor that she or he or say bring to the table gets dropped into a you know, a same spray funnel of getting his letters, reports and every every invitation, uh, any type of event that that non-profits having the boardmember is very conscious. Of what experience that they want, or that they realized that that friends, family and co worker will have, as a result, e-giving to that organization. And so if if non-profits out there, if you want more board members to participate fund-raising you’ve got to create an experience for donors that raise rises to the level of satisfaction and pride of every one of your board members, so they’re feel proud. Teo asked their friends for money and have their friends be donors of to your organization and what brian was saying of having a solution that is a little set it and forget it. It’s this idea that you can have a tool that embeds within the tool all these best practices because at the end of the day, the non-profit doesn’t want to be thinking about did i bring in that hundred dollars that are bringing that thousand dollars in here? I mark right that’s not why they’re there that some what’s motivating them that’s, that’s like a means baizman end. So the tools that are stepping up to solve this problem are the ones that said, hey, you know what? We get that, right? We’re putting embedded. Best practices into this tool, so you’re going to focus on other things, but still trying to bring in that money and create that relationship in the most effective, meaningful way, because that’s what’s going to propel your non-profit for-profit forward and help you grow. Brian, i love that connection that you made between your donor experience and bored participation that’s a real that’s a connection i’ve never heard before on and i think it’s significant, and it and that could be a great topic for aboard conversation. Bored ceo, senior fundraiser conversation are you satisfied with the experience? I mean, it was some riel introspection that could be a difficult conversation, but one that’s important to have. Brian, i have to i brian brian, i got a limit. You we got, like, thirty seconds left. So this is your wrap up that you and then i’m gonna i’m gonna shut you off. So go but twenty eight seconds got it. So number one things that each and every non-profit should be doing this year is putting a stake in the ground and coming up with their first iteration of a donor experience. Um and keep it simple and keep it cost. Okay, you can animate email your website and facebook together you are catapulted yourself into a realm of hyre functionality that will help you raise more money. We got to leave it there. Brian lauterbach, vice president of programs, impact and sustainability and network for good lisa banana, vice president, digital marketing network for good they’re both network for good dot com where the forest spelled out lisa brian, thank you so much. Thanks. Such a pleasure. Thank you. My pleasure. Next week, joe garrick and your online giving plan i think you’re going to see some threads continue from this week. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for smaller midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio whether cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps, dot com and tell his credit card in payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dot, m a slash tony tell us he still loves us, tony, that i’m a bit lise or creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer show social media is by the excellent susan chavez on our music is by this very cool. Scott steiner, brooklyn with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.