Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%
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Dr. Robert Penna: The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox
Dr. Robert Penna, author of “The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox” discusses the wave of reliance on outcomes measurement, and gives concrete steps and tools so that small and mid-size shops can stay ahead of the trend toward outcomes assessment. We also talk about Easy Bake ovens and my Eagle Scout project (as an example of what NOT to do). This is part 2 of our interview from a previous show. Part 1 was last week.
Amy Sample Ward: Optimize Your Social Profiles
Amy Sample Ward, our social media contributor, has tips to fine tune your profiles on the social networks like Twitter and Facebook, while staying true to mission and brand. Also, using your profiles to promote campaigns. She’s CEO of the Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN) and her book is “Social Change Anytime Everywhere.”
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i hope you were with me last week. I’d suffer ventricular ticket. I screwed that up. I’d suffer ventricular tachycardia if it came to my attention became within my ken that you had missed the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Dr robert penna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox, discussed the wave of reliance on outcomes measurement and gave concrete steps and tools so that small and midsize shops khun stay ahead of the trend toward outcomes assessment. That was part one of our interview from an earlier show and news sources new source maria simple are doi n of dirt cheap and free ideas is also the prospect finder, and last week she had advice for you on which news sources are best for your research and also a new free source from the foundation center foundation directory online this week, the non-profit outcomes toolbox part do from a previous show and optimize your social profiles. Amy sample ward, our social media contributor, has tips to find tune your profiles on the social networks like twitter and facebook. While staying true to mission and brand also using your profiles to promote campaigns and amy’s sixty seconds style stop she’s, the ceo of non-profit technology network and ten and her book is social change any time everywhere got lots of guests live in the studio is going to be lots of extra special live listener love as well as everybody listening worldwide. We’ll get to that right now. We’ll get to my previous interview with dr robert penna and the non-profit outcomes toolbox, bringing robert penna welcoming him back now, we were just before the break talking about the outcome statement should be meaningful, achievable, sustainable on dh the book goes into a little more detail, even oh, and i’d like to because i’d like to help our listeners achieve an outcome statement. You say that should be bound in time and number the outcome statement. What does that mean? Well, what it basically means is rather than saying, we’re going to change the world, it’s, that we’re going to specifically a change ah, certain measurable of facet of characteristic of someone for a certain number of people within a certain given period of time, so the idea said we’re going to achieve x for why number of people within two months, three months, one year, whatever it may be so that the idea is that first off it’s it’s tethered to ah, a certain number of people that you’re going teo achieve this for, and also a certain specific times. So that, for example, the investor knows when the payoff comes, let me give you another reason why this is crucial if you were if you read the book and i know you know you did, you probably came across the work capacity ten thousand times capacity. You don’t have to read the book to hear about capacity over the building, and i don’t know, but over here, this is a very, very specific use. If you haven’t outcomes approach, it automatically begs the capacity question, because if you are clear about what it is you want to achieve from that flows what it is you need to get there, which then challenges you to say, do i have that capacity most non-profits and i hate to use generalizations, but i think in this case, it’s true, most on profits and most people who are aware of the non-profit space, when you talk about capacity building the first thing they will think about his dollar signs. All right, we’re having a pass it e capacity raising effort. What? It’s a fund raiser. True capacity, however, has three levels. All right. The first one is structural capacity. How is the organization run? How is it managed? What’s the relationship between the board and the executive leadership what’s the quality of the training of the staff, et cetera. The second is what i call functional capacity. Basically, what that means is if you go, you do have the tools to do what you say you’re going to do. If you were an education organization, then you need educators. You need a curriculum. If you’re counseling organization unique counselors and you need some sort of models, they’re all your inputs. Yes, exactly. The third one, and perhaps the most important one is the implementation capacity. The’s are the thousand and one little things that not just non-profits, but anybody trips up, trips over when it comes to actually doing a job, it could be, for example, twenty. You or i are going to put up a curtain rod and it turns out, we don’t have a level. Well, if we don’t have a level, how we’re gonna make sure the curtain rod is level that’s an implementation capacity issue when you talk about a non-profit it could be everything from the from the requirement to provide transportation so the clients could actually get there to something like intake if you want. If you’re goingto have seventy five people, let us say graduate from your program will do you have the capacity for a nen take to actually process those seventy five people? So they’re not standing on line three hours and losing interest in wandering away who’s going to answer the phones let’s say you have a a an outreach effort going on and you have a training program and you put the word out on the street. But then it turns out that your non-profit is really run all by part timers, and most of the time, if anybody calls to get information, they’re either going to get just a phone that rings or they’re going to get an answering machine. That’s a capacity questions. So if you’re doing this correctly, it really forces you to look at a number. Of things including the capacity that you have to actually achieve the goals. If you don’t have it, then you either have to upgrade the capacity nufer have scaled back the goals and flowing from this quantification of of what you want outcomes to be is measurable because they become measurable when you’ve quantified and bound in-kind time number so we can, in fact, measure things that are i have previously been so just vague sort of objectives. Let me give you a classic example on this may sound like a bit of a stretch to euro to your readers, but you and i being roughly the same age, i think you have. You have readers we have listen that’s, right, our reader listeners, because they’re all gonna buy your book, my readers, just the non-profit outcomes toolbox published by wile e you recall when when when we were kids, we had things like, you know, lincoln logs and the directors were there, and they were even wood and the logs were made for right? Okay, this is going to sound like a bit of a weird one, but compare, think back, compare when you’re building one of those things. Too. When your mother built a big cake, your mother baked the cakes you took all the ingredients she pour them in a bowl should put him in a pan, she put in the oven and she lost at that point total control of what was going on. No one’s going to know whether cake was good or bad until after it was done. It came out. It was cool when you tasted it, and if something were on, there was nothing you could do. Thinking back, however, to the example, the lincoln logs with the tinker toys, the directors that we had a guide. The guide showed a step by step where we should be at every point in time if at any point in time, what we’re building didn’t look like the picture we could stop, we could go back and we could fix it, that’s one of the differences of working with outcomes as opposed to not when you don’t work without comes we have to be the only position you’re in is to hope for a good end result, but you can’t control it because you have no idea, really what’s going on with the variables. If you’re tracking using an outcome system, all right, and it is bound in time and is bound in number, and you do know that by a certain date x number of people should be at stage four. If they’re not there, then you still have time to fix it. If you have no clue where they’re supposed to be, or what we could do was hope for good results of the end. And if you don’t get it, well, then we did. You say sorry, better luck. Next time, you don’t know that as a child actually had an easy bake oven, i didn’t have the lincoln logs. My brother had elearning logs. I had the easy bake oven. They should also be your outcome statement verifiable, and this is all really, i’m i’m breaking it down the way you do in the book, but just flows naturally from the way you’re describing it. We have to be able to verify where we are time versus goal on dh and reassess, say more about verifiability. Verifiability basically means that some third party can look at it without spending a ton of money, because again, and this is that not to take anything away from professional evaluators, but evaluation cost money and professional evaluators and professional valuation services. I mean, these people are very good at what they do, but the point is that hopefully what you’re doing is verifiable in the easier way i mean, is there’s an old saying, you know, chicken soup is good for the soul? Well, it could be, but it’s, hard to tell. You know, what you want to do is you want to stick to things that have some fairly easily discernible evidence that can be seen and that’s what it means, my verifiable it means staying away from outcomes to talkabout, as you said before, well, somebody feels better about themselves in their place in the universe? Well, that’s a little bit nebulous. And so i would recommend that if you’re looking to create a good outcome statement, a good outcome for your program that you stay away from the cosmic, the psychic, the overly emotional and definitely the extraterrestrial. Okay, so first step to create a proper outcome statement is what decide what you want to be different at the end of this program. So you’re definitely looking forward toward the end, with the end in mind begins, and you say that the book begin with the engine dart with what do you want to be different about a certain situation or a certain set of conditions as a result of your program, start there. If you can’t define it, then maybe should rethink what you’re doing and in determining that you need to be bound in number and time and those miserable those of the descriptions as you working back, which is yes, but the idea is what you wanted start with is a change you want to start with being able to define a change. We’ve kind of alluded to this, but the basic basic idea of the changes what’s called the backs measures change in the behavior, attitude, condition, knowledge or status of those you seek to serve. So you start with the change in their behavior, their attitude, that condition and knowledge or the status and it doesn’t have to be a person. It could be a forest that could be it could could be a watershed. The status goes from being threatened to not tear being safe to being protected. But the idea is you start with the change and defining if you can’t define it, then my suggestion is you start to rethink a lot of organizations. Start with the problem. And then the next question is, what do we do? Well, what do we do? That’s that’s. The wrong place to start the place to start is first off. What changes do we want to bring about? Secondly, what resource is will it take to do that? Thirdly, you know what actions or programs will it take to effectuate that it’s? A total reverse of the usual way of approaching most of these issues. That’s. Ah, sort of a summary of of developing your own outcome statement. And there’s, obviously a lot more detail. In the book again, the book is the non-profit outcomes toolbox, we have just about a minute before the break, how do we start to apply on outcomes analysis? You have a lot of tools in the book, but how do we get there? Well, first off an easy thing by the book, but beyond that, there are any number of very, very thoughtful people who have created some of these tools that are out there. The problem is that most non-profits i don’t know about them. Everybody, for example, is heard of the logic model. Well, what they don’t understand what the logic model was originally intended to do was to intended to be a supposed to the way a lot of people are suggesting it be used. Today there are alternatives to this, and the book is one way of finding out about them, and reinventing the wheel is not necessary. These wheels have already being been admitted to the question is knowing which ones work for you. And that was the whole concept behind the toolbox approach to the book that perhaps we can talk about after the break. Okay, way are going to take a break. If you’ve not heard of the logic model, then you’re with me. So i’m going to ask robert after the break to just briefly talk about that. And then we’re going to talk about some of tools and lessons you can learn from the for-profit from the corporate sector in outcomes measurement. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. 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What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage. Tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s. Ivory tower radio, dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dahna welcome back to the show. Our last segment. Let’s define the logic model because maybe i know it by a different name, robert, but you may know that what is that? That is actually the name of it, of the logic model is a away that non-profits have had for some years now of planned it’s, one of the tools that they’ve used for planning how to get to the outcomes from the starting point. But the logic model became very well known when kellogg adopted at the kellogg foundation. Same is the cereal people, the telephone, isha and united way of america adopted. And in both of those cases they kind of put the word out amongst their there either case of kellogg, that grantees, and in case of the united way of america, the local affiliates, that this was one of the earliest outcomes frameworks that you could potentially use not doing under do plug. But in my previous book, outcome frameworks, that was one of the things we talked about, because the idea was there were these various models, and how do they compare one to the other? And what were the pluses and minuses of all of them that had never been done before? Which is why i wrote that previous book, but the logic model truly was meant as a graphic illustration of cause and effect within a program that this input will lead to that which will lead to the third, which will lead to the fourth and hopefully get you two the the the the end point that you that you desire, the problem is it was never actually designed to be a management or tracking tool. And when organizations and there are a lot of people, very thoughtful people who do use it for this personally, i think it’s cumbersome and what you wind up with since the whole design was a flow chart, very often you wind up with all of these various lines at the doubling back on each other. So some of someone i know, okay, so we’re past that now that we’re in the outcomes toolbox, right? And why did you choose the toolbox metaphor? Kinds of the toolbox was very simple. Let’s go back to that curtain, rod, you and i, we’re going to put a human. You don’t go back to my eagle scout. No, no, i’m still sinjin. I’m going to go back. To the curtain rod, you’re not going to put up a few minutes ago without the level. Let’s say you’re putting up the curtain, ron and all the tools you had. We were craftsman. And at one point you needed that level that i mentioned and you say, bob, give me a level. Well, if the level i gave you was a stanley, would you refuse to use it? Because it was a question like all the other tools? Probably not. You would. You would use the tools at hand. Okay. In that non-profit space, most of these frameworks, our proprietary, this one belongs to ran. That one belongs to the rental of ill institute, the third one’s associated with this with this person or this institution. As a result, what traditionally happened was, let us say, a representative of that organization or the consultant came in and they would wind up basically saying to non-profits my model b a, b, c or d it’s the bass dramatic of outcome frameworks. It slices it, dices it chops, it walks the dog. It does everything. The problem is, none of them do everything. All of them do something. All of them. Do several somethings some of them do some things very well, but none of them do everything well. And so what we wound up doing was inadvertently offering them the space, a defense, eighty percent solutions to one hundred percent problems. It’s telling people, for example, that the logic model was the be all and end all was one such example. My concept is, and the reason is called the toolbox in the book, i do not care about the authorship, the ownership, the providence or anything else about any of these tools. If it works, i want you to use it, and i’m not going to tell you not to use it because you’re not using the other pieces of the same sex that’s the concept truly a toolbox reaching grab what works for you, and if you’re not oriented towards tools, think about it as a kitchen, you know, again, you know, if you have ah, you know, one brand of, you know, say, blender and another brand of you’re not going to not use them to the same meal because the different brands you’re going to use, what you need now, you’re in my space because now i mean that’s for my easy bake oven days. Okay, right. The kitchenware. That’s. What if that’s why i went there? I can see that was resonating with much more comfortable with spatulas than i am. Phillips head screwdriver. First time i used when i had to go to the emergency room that’s because you were trying to scrape a pan with. So the book has a lot of model of of these tools. Talks about, i don’t know, maybe a dozen or so. Some of the simplest ones are you get what you measure results based accountability, even one from mckinsey and company capacity assessment tool. But maybe not those necessary. But a lot of the tools in the toolbox do emanate from corporate outcomes. Measurements. Some of the some of the latter ones. A lot of, you know, there’s. A lot of what are what? No. Why is it translatable? I mean, from for-profit enough, for-profit you know, a lot of times not-for-profits community is worried about things that come from corporations. Yeah, with peter drucker. Except for money. Then i will write a cz investigators investors. But but now there is that fear. What were some of the lessons peter drucker made the comment that non-profit should be run more like business. And everyone thought that, you know, he was he was the prostate, and he was ah, heretical and my god, you know, corporations of big, nasty things. And after all we care, you know, we were the non-profit sector. The truth of the matter is that no one is more interested in outcomes in the corporate world. Now they tend to call the court that their outcomes profitability, market share, etcetera. But the idea is they’ve been leading the way literally since, you know henry ford was putting model tease out of on assembly line, there are tools, for example, like six sigma, there are tools eichsteadt saying, sabat against there are tools like six, six, six sigma six sigma. The question is, what the hells of sigma and where the six of them that’s explained in the book it’s basically a measure of quality. All right, six sigma focuses on how many failure rates are there per million opportunities to fail. I mean, you don’t really have to get into that, but the concept is it has some key insight something for example, like t q m t q jargon jail. Oh, ok, you know, you know, take your total quality, man. You know, i didn’t know what i mean. That’s what a quantum! And i’m not gonna go lock myself in georgian jail. What it means is critical to quality most non-profits when they’re designing a programme, do not ask this question, as the corporate world does with corporal world is launching and launching an effort one of the first things under six six but they would do is say, what is the most critical part of this that we need to have? If a non-profit were to adopt that kind of that kind of concept and that kind of analysis, it could go very, very far towards helping them focus on the most important parts of a program, the key things that they absolutely must have. But this is a a perspective that is very often far into the non-profit space, but very, very built into the corporate space, particularly using something like six sigma, i see a future masters degree in non-profit outcomes engineering yet it’s perfect, exactly there’ll be exactly well, but when we have maybe a moment, so we can talk about something called serve qual, which they use in pizza hut, if you imagine, think a tool from pizza being used in the non-profit space now that’s the that’s the suggestion that we talked about, regrettably, we’re out of moments right of moments, but the lesson is don’t be fearful of what comes from the non-profit from from the for-profit sector because these are all important, easily quantified things that corporations are focusing on, like earnings per share in a quarter, right? Exactly. And how do you get there? What do you need to do to get there? The book is the non-profit outcomes toolbox, a complete guide to program effectiveness, performance measurement and results published by wally wiley and sons, you’ll find robert penn is blogged at outcomes, outcomes toolbox, dot com robert, thank you very much for being on the show. Pleasure. Thank you very much for having it was a pleasure and enjoyed immensely. Thank you. Very valuable interview and and a really valuable book. That non-profit outcomes. Toolbox. I got to start sending live listener love because we have in studio love. It’s. Incredible. My sister in law, christi weber. My niece by marriage. Morocco. Weber. My father in law, which also happens to be by marriage, pete drum, live in the studio, it’s. Unbelievable friends, jason kapoor and mark silverman, friends of mine from here in the city, and i, a visitor from from baden hyre, germany. Julia lights, julia, guten tag, all live listeners, all in the studio. At this moment, of course, we’ve got live listeners around the world, including kandahar, afghanistan, which is where my nephew is listening from shout out to him in afghanistan. Right now, we take a break when we come back. Tony’s, take two, and then amy sample ward, optimize your social profiles hanging there. They didn’t think that shooting, getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get me anything. Nothing. Cubine are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight free that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Durney hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent let’s ah, let’s, move into tony’s, take two this week on my blogged is let’s help a non-profit listener listener matt from minnesota, centene emailed me a question that his office was having a problem with seems that about six thousand of their end of year appeal letters went out asking people for the wrong donation amount because the spreadsheets or the query didn’t quite line up on dh. It had incorrect previous year’s donation amounts, so a fifty, dollar donors from two thousand twelve was said in the letter to have given fifteen hundred and was asked for a two thousand dollar gift when something more like seventy five or one hundred would have been appropriate and that went out about six thousand people. So matt was wondering, what do you think we should do? And i’ve got a bunch comments on the blogged from people around the country offering advice, and you can give your advice. Also, most of the comments run along the lines of send a very contrite letter, you know, apologize very explicitly and say that you’re taking steps so that it never happens again and that, you know, we value every donor. We’re very sorry and please don’t stop supporting us that’s the way most of the comments run, but you can give your advice to matt in minnesota, the post is called let’s help a non-profit listener and it’s on my block at tony martignetti dot com. I also want you to know that i’m going to be at bebe con this coming monday. The thirtieth of september b become is the blackbaud conference it’s going to be at the gaylord conference center outside washington, d c i’ll be there all day monday, doing interviews for the show got interviews lined up on mobile giving e-giving tuesday, which is a hashtag on twitter e-giving getting different society level gif ts building a fund-raising board fraud protection and a bunch more amy sample ward will be there as well. I’ll be talking to her as if we don’t talk to her enough, but she’s going to be there be becoming also, and i’m giving away some consulting time on monday. Two hours there’s two different ways to win one hour of consulting time you can either ah tweet on using the hashtag non-profit radio on monday and if you do that, you’ll be entered into a contest, and the other way is if you’re at the big con, come to the stage where i’ll be doing the interviews on the exhibit floor and drop your business card in the bowl and i’ll select a business card at the end of the day and one of you a tte. The conference will win a free hour of consulting it’s your choice can have either plant e-giving consulting or charity registration. Two different ways to win i’m giving away on our of sorry two hours of free consulting on monday, so have to either see you would be become or see your tweets using the hashtag non-profit radio, and that is tony’s take two for friday, twenty seventh of september thirty eighth show of the year. I’m always privilege to welcome amy sample ward back she’s, the ceo of the non-profit technology network, and ten her most recent co authored book is social change anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement her block is amy sample, ward, dot or ge and she’s at amy r s ward on twitter. Welcome back, amy, thanks for having me, you sound terrific, you’re you’re in toronto, on skype, right? I am. Can you hear me? Ok, actually, yes, sounds very, very good, actually sounds almost sort of studio quality. You must be in a nice, quiet room. What were you doing in toronto? I i’m not. I’m actually in a hallway, but i’m glad it soon. Good. I’m here for our test interactions with the conference yesterday, and a lot of it was a lot of fun, actually, people from all different sides of the non-profit technology, a topic coming together and a lot of a lot of case studies sharing what they have been working on, things like that, okay? And, uh, you want to share one thing that is memorable for you so far from the conference. I was really excited how many people were there ready to talk about data, not as a like idea, but people saying, oh, so we’ve been measuring x and we have seen this trend have you seen it? You know, and really jumping into commerce stations with the expectation that everyone else was also really looking at their impact, really trying to quantify what they were doing and, you know, share their tips or commiserating in some failures together. Cool sounds like a lot of valuable cross talk, all right? Yeah, i guess you’re going from toronto to washington area for b becomes yes, exactly. Okay, we’ll talk about that a little later. I know i’ll be seeing you there, but we want to talk about today optimizing your social profile. So we’re getting a little a little a little tactical today. Sometimes we’re sometimes were strategic and little, well, theoretical, but always valuable, but today would be a little tactical. Um, wait, we got to keep our social profiles, whether it’s, facebook, twitter, these have to be aligned with our work. How do we how do we make sure we’re doing that? Well, it’s, you know, i think a lot of people start from this place where they have heard that, you know, social channels, all these social profiles are an opportunity to extend their brand or you really make themselves visible out there. And so that here these kind of jargon, jail type phrases and think, oh, great, so we just put up a facebook page and, you know, put slap our logo on it, just like our website. Excuse me. Hey, but in reality, that’s not what? Extending your branded but also doesn’t match what’s happening there. It isn’t a good representation of your mission. So how can those channel really serve that goal? Well, think about it. Not just and here’s your logo and your profile picture, but who are the people behind your organization or who had that? Supporters? You know, how do you how do you let those social channels? The social, but also really clear photos, text, etcetera. You could explain just what you do, you know, it’s an opportunity. All the webs, you know, website like present that different but targeted across across the web. You know what i think about organizations that do kind admission direction well, you, whatever channel you’re on, you know, it’s, but it feels different each one feels like, you know, a different room in the same house, you know, the living room is maybe still the same style of the people that lived there, but it has more couches and maybe a fireplace, and then you go into the kitchen and again, maybe same style of the people that lived there, but this is where, you know, there’s more lights, there’s, a bunch of cookery, etcetera. So so how how do you make that on the different social profiles will, first of all, don’t forget that they’re trying to help you. You know, you don’t want to try and hide all of the different components of that facebook page, for example, let those pieces be there because people on facebook, i expect them to be there used them to your advantage, you know, you don’t and feel the furniture out of every room where all the way across the house really put, you know, make those counters. The best darn couch is, they could be in the living room, even though maybe there you’re branded colors and they met kayman uniform makes sense, but before and even before you start there, i mean, you have to take a look at which channels you should even be in, you know? You’re talking about a lion with where your people are, you know, you you have to know that and what we’re just what sites are appropriate for your for your work and your people exactly, and some of that, you know, i’m always surprised when i think data is important and helpful and valuable, and if you can look at data to say, oh, wow, you know that the demographics of these certain tools or that you know, our our community, probably there that’s only one side of the equation just because you may have a bunch of, you know, parents between the ages of thirty six and forty five in your community, it doesn’t mean that they necessarily want to be engaging with your programs and content on facebook just because demographically, they’re probably on facebook, they maybe see facebook is a, you know, a place to go share photos of beds with their parents. You know what? It’s nine o’clock at night and they’ve finally gotten tohave happen our to themselves, they don’t want to. Spend a half hour with you, you know, maybe there’s a different channel for your for engaging with your community beyond just what the demographics say. So i think you have to also look at what is the content you even delivering just because your people, maybe you’re on twitter, the content you’re sharing with them, maybe can’t ever fit in one hundred forty characters are maybe isn’t something they’re going to pick out of their twitter street. You know anyone? Who’s just opened up twitter and let it sit there it’s just flowing by so finding a match between like you said, your community and the channel, but also your content in the channel and made it may just not make sense to be posted there. Okay, we’re going toe were to take a break on dh. Well, amy and i have ah, well, extra time today, so we’re going to keep talking about aligning your work with the social networks where you where you ought to be, how to keep consistent with the brand and even, you know, if you happen to be in a campaign, how to do that promotion successfully and when we come right back. It’ll be mohr live listener, love. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. 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All right, amy, um let’s, let’s, wait, we got to get to some details here so we don’t leave people which i know concerns you as well, you know, we don’t leave people with more questions than answers, so let’s let’s get in. I mean, how do you how would you test whether twitter that’s a great example because it does go by so fast? What questions would you asked to determine whether twitter is a good platform for you? Treyz well, i mean, i think we’ve talked about this on the show before and that is try to do some research, ask people directly, you know, do you want to be engaging with us on this channel? A are you using this channel? You know, just try and get that information, but there is nothing like the empirical proof of just testing. It and, you know, setting up a profile even if it isn’t, you know, necessarily the most intense organizational profile, and you have a mess of content strategy if you just want to devote a couple weeks testing the channel tested out, see how it goes, keep track of what you’re doing, you know, organisations that have really been able to increase amount of engagement on twitter have done things like, you know, don’t just track all we put, we tweeted, and people reply just but say what time of day did the most retweets happened? Not just when did you tweet, but when we’re other people finding your content and re posting it, you know or how many times did people reply or or retweet a certain post versus another one? Okay, what was special about that content? You know, really tryingto understand the mechanics of what’s going on with the community there because, you know again, it is both the content and the people that your you have to try and match, so testing it out is the only way to really you know, prue? What? What does that what doesn’t work okay? And then, of course, you have all your analytics, the analytical tools also, exactly. Okay, let’s, talk about the profile now, since you know we’re supposed to say we’re focusing on the profile what you get let’s, keep with the twitter example, but then we’ll look at a couple others because you and i have some extra time together today twitter, twitter, your your limited number of characters you khun you can devote to your profile how how do you know what belongs in there? Upleaf well, i think what what belongs first of all is the shortest version of what you can say about your mission. Next is who it is that’s tweeting because at the end of the day, no one thinks it’s actually quote unquote your organization, they know it’s, some staff, a person or people, so call it out, make that transparent, and then leslie is including a link backto either you know what i mean to your website, but i would encourage you not to just use the home page of your website to send people to a more tailored entry, whether that’s, you know, maybe a community page where you linked to your different social profiles and then expect people to be, you know, clicking back and saying, oh, this is where you know they engage or maybe of a specific program area you want a link to but include that direct connection back to the website let’s, talk about facebook profiles. What if you have? If you’ve gone through your analytics, you determine that facebook is a suitable platform for you is what you’re goingto do on your facebook profile. It’s going to be different than twitter? I mean, it allows more media, too. Yeah, exactly. And you know it, what you do with that profile, especially on a channel like facebook where there’s, just so much content opportunity, you’re setting the tone for how you want people to engage with that page, are you? You know you have a really engaging, bright fun, you know, header, photo and and you are posting photos along with your text well, that’s encouraging the community to also pose that you know, that’s, the content they seize on the page, or are you you know, do not even have a header image, and then you just have your logo is your profile photo, and you’re just, you know, constantly posting links. To your website? Well, if that’s the nasty example no one’s going to post because they don’t have a link to your website to share, you know, you really think about it as, like here’s, the example of what you want the community to do and build it out around that which is why, you know, some of the most engaging facebook pages, the ones that have, you know, the most number of people that like it, but also consistently engaged with paige are ones that have photos of the community or, you know, photos from events that the organization has done things where people go to the page and they see it as hears that window into the programs and the impact the organization is having and of course, you want to be there. Don’t you want to be a part of the fun impact and, you know, making that mission happen? Of course, you know, on one side, we certainly think that’s what people be on our website, but they just get so heavy and bogged down with every piece of content we’ve ever created and, you know, on the social profiles we get highlights the really great engaging pieces first, here we are talking about twitter and i get a little phone quick phone alerts when i give a new twitter follower. I just got a new twitter follower as we’re sitting here talking about twitter kapin remind, you have to be my niece who’s sitting in the studio, but no would take whatever the hell we can get it. And if you want to join my niece, you khun, you can follow me at tony martignetti um, let’s let’s keep keep going because, you know, i get i get a little ah troubled, always talking about twitter and facebook. Let’s, let’s, pick another couple profile what’s, another what’s, another another site that you see non-profits spending time on and doing well and again after you’ve been through your own analytics and you’ve tested it as amy was describing, you’ve described that this other channel, which is about to talk about, might make sense for you. What? What should your profile look like on that channel? What do want talk about amy? You know, i’ve seen some non-profits re certainly really doing a great job on instagram and, you know, it’s, obviously a morning platforms so you’re not going to see, you know, on facebook, sometimes you see a big organization has, like, you know, a thousand likes on a poster on a image, and you’re just not going to have a thousand likes on your instagram photo or video, but you’re still gonna have some, you know, andi, what i think is great is that organization you’re already planning and creating this content well, you have images, and you you have what, mr graham? So, you know, each channel could be the same quote unquote, like horse, which is packaged in different ways that makes sense for that channel. So including instagram in your your list of outlets, i think it’s great a great thing to test out to try see if you have community there because it’s so unlike facebook, where if you posted, you know, multiple posts and multiple photos and one day people would, you know, get a little turned off the algorithm is hiding your post already from, you know, most of your your fans, instagram there’s, no filter, no one, you know, whatever isn’t in the cds in the feed and it’s not the kind of channel where organizations they’re saying like if you post multiple times in a day, people are getting tired of it instead they’re like oh, cool, what are you doing now? You know, because that’s, the culture of that channel is cool. What what’s the photo? What are you doing now? And just kind of scrolling through them? Okay, now you and i devoted segment not too long ago, teo tumbler so and listeners could go back and look for that. So we’ll we’ll skip tumbler, but what’s, another what’s, another site you you’d like to talk about? Same, you know, same same you know what? What should you profile be focused on? Yeah, i mean, i think one as faras like this conversation of extending your brand and really you leveraging what the components of that platform are to engage people, you’ll bring them into your content. I think youtube is super underutilized because for non-profits you can have so many of the additional youtube customization tools and components for free so you can have a totally branded youtube channel. You could have called action and your video i mean there’s just so much that non-profits they’re missing out because, you know, even if you don’t have huge, like documentaries it’s not hard to create videos, especially now that, you know we’re all we’re all create them with their phone, even so having these short pieces, whether captured at events or, you know, even like a thirty second video that says we’re about to launch a campaign tomorrow you get ready and it’s just it’s just kind of there to make people feel like they’re in the know, and they’re part of your work again because you can post it to a channel that’s totally branded you could have, like, like folders, you know, hear all the videos about this topic on people can scroll through, i think there’s a lot of potential with youtube non-profit durney kapin okay, maybe we should devote a show. Teo youtube. Okay, okay. And those folders appreciated referring teo playlists. You can have a playlist on different topics like on mind theirs. B b com twenty twelve there’s different conferences have been too there’s. One for stand up comedy, i think that’s the folders you’re referring to yet played their playlist. Okay, okay. All right. You know, since we have the luxury of time, is there one more channel? You want to. You want to talk about? Hyre no. Okay, i don’t want to just spot, okay? Okay. Because you think about it. That’s ok? We got it. We got other topics. We don’t talk about depth on channels. Um, let’s, talk about your campaign. If you happen to have a campaign, whether it’s a thirty day campaign or, you know, a more traditional sort of campaigns, you know, might last three year, three, four years, you know, some capital campaigns go on that long. How do you expose that campaign within your within these the social sites profiles? Well, and then this goes back to the earlier point about really taking advantage of the specific functionality that each platform has, you know, unique teo like with facebook because that’s leverage that is very in the example. You have two photos that you get to take advantage of. You have that big header image, but then you also have your profile photo, and again, just how you are setting the tone for the kind of engagement you want there campaigns have also been really successful at taking advantage of that profile photo and encouraging people to eat to share that and they get their own profile photo. And really spreading the campaign message or brand that way, you know, because it’s facebook makes it very easy just click on something and say, make-a-wish my probono so where, you know, on other channels, it may not be quite as easy, but you see, you see similar profile photo based campaign extensions on twitter, you know, where they have, you know, i think it’s called a women are things like that where you’re just adding kind of an image layer on top of the photo, so it has a little, you know, i’m sure you’ve seen them stars are a little banner along the bottom that says, you know, media campaign hashtag etcetera so i think that’s a really clear called action for a campaign is like, okay, today we’re launching everyone make this your profile photo, for example, andi, i think one of the most recent, very large scale example that that was the hrc campaign about turning facebook red. Okay? Ohh even write human rights campaign. Yes. Ok. Yeah. And you know beyond just the image on the on the various profiles associated to a campaign. You also have the opportunity. If you are, you say running. A campaign where you’re really encouraging engagement on twitter and you know you have a pacific campaign hashtag go edit your twitter bio to say we are running this campaign the hashtag learned more so that as people retweets your tweets and they’re like, oh, my retreated this, i’m going to check him out, they don’t open up, you know your twitter profile and see okay, you’re some organization based wherever you know, make sure that you’re you’re actually updating the profile information on the different channels when you’re running a campaign and not just the image or don’t just start posting the content, make sure that you know the profile itself when people find you explain the campaign and just your organization. It’s probably so easy to forget toe update your profile here you are doing all this multi-channel strategy around a campaign on don’t forget toa talk about it and you’re and publicizing your profiles exactly because you set the profile up, you know it’s, not something that people keep up to date and that’s that’s sort of i mean, that’s really subsumed everything everything you’re saying you got news all the time profile is not something you only look at when you set up the accountant on don’t look at it that’s all subsumed in what you’re saying, right? Okay, especially during campaign times when you’re getting in theory, hopefully a lot more new people singing your social profile. Well, they’re saying that for the first time, they want to know why. Five friends, we’re just talking about you and of all that you have is information about your general mission. Well, they don’t know why they’re friends were talking about you, you know, it’s a great place to put some of those campaign hooks and called action just in a couple of minutes. We want to emphasize something that you and i have always talked about. This is not only multi-channel online, but you’re offline strategies have to coordinate with all this as well. Exactly. So that was your if you are planning to have any direct mail pieces, you know, make sure those match up and it’s a great way to think we checked before time. Direct mail drops with when you launch things online, so send an email that says, hey, we’re going to be, you know, standing up for this campaign a couple days later and direct mail piece comes and then you know, that same day or the next day, you really launch it on social well, by the time you tweeted they’ve already seen it three times in really personal ways that got emails, they got, you know, postcards and now you posted about it on twitter there, ready to actually engage. Excellent. Okay, we have to leave that topic there. It’s time for your your first sixty second style stop. Wei had this. We’re talking. Yeah, we’re talking about either travel or leisure or food. What? What do you have? Sixty seconds. Only sixty second style stop. Oh, my goodness. Well, i was thinking about this today because i am actually traveling and my at least my personal tip is whatever i need right after i land whether it’s, my pajama or, you know, food, whatever. I put that in my like purser carryon bag because i hate feeling like i have to unpack my entire suitcase just to go to bed when i get to the hotel in the night or something, you know that way, whatever you actually need in your first few hours where you land is in the same bag outstanding. Cool. Thank you for sharing. Yeah. From the hallway in toronto. Amy sample war. Exactly. Any simple board ceo of non-profit technology network you’ll find her blah, gamey sample war dot or ge, and on twitter at amy rs ward and i’ll be seeing you on monday with your co author, alison kapin, right? Yeah, and looking forward to it. Okay, cool metoo haven’t seen you for a while. Bye, amy. I think i got some last minute live listener love new bern, north carolina, paradise valley, arizona bloomfield, new jersey and bill in court, france welcome live listener love and, of course, always to our podcast listeners podcast pleasantries, always grateful for the podcast listeners next week. Roger, matt lov and joy hunter show you are the co authors of non-profit investment and development solutions, a guide to thriving in today’s economy, and they will be with me for the hour over nine thousand leaders, fundraisers and board members of small and midsize charities listen each week, you know how to reach me. If you’d like to talk about sponsoring the show, we’ve got one that’s going to be starting next week, early october. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer, shows social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point. Oh, the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules, and our music is by scott stein. I hope you’ll be with me next friday, one to two p, m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com e-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting thinking. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. E-giving nothing. Good. 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You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? 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