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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week she’s grace shandan a in new orleans. She helped us out by referring videographers for the upcoming non-profit technology conference where we’ll be. Grace, thank you so much for your help. If you want to check out grace she’s at grace in nolan congratulations, grace on being non-profit radios listener of the weak and thank you for your help. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of duitz handup cia if you mentioned the off color idea that you missed today’s show turbocharge your grants fund-raising John hicks returns with 9 steps that will burn the tires off your gran’s program. Look at me making car metaphors. I don’t even know how to change. The only thing i can do is change the windshield wiper fluid. First time i used a ah ah phillips head screwdriver. I had to go to the emergency room s so there won’t be a lot of car metaphors beyond this. This one, john is principal and founder of deal be. Hicks llc consulting on tony’s steak too don’t get don’t get hung up on the money we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio bye weinger suppose a’s c p a’s guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna may slash tony tell us what a pleasure to welcome back john hicks. We believe this is his third time on the show. C f r ee principal and founder of de lb hick it’s, a consulting firm providing fund-raising and grant seeking guidance to non-profits from grassroots to global. His career spans over thirty years. He’s on the faculty of columbia university’s masters degree in non-profit management teaching grantwriting and he’s a lecturer for rector’s university’s institute for ethical leadership he’s at deal be hicks and deal be hicks dot com john hicks welcome back to studio that’s. Great to be here. My pleasure to have you deal be deal be all we keep here’s deal be. I love the story behind deal be tell it. Sure, thie lb stands for dylan’s lightbulb as in bob dylan. Years ago, i came across a copy of the ai pennebaker’s great documentary don’t look back, bob dylan’s nineteen sixty five tour of the u k early in the film villains getting off the plane at heathrow airport in these walking in this press conference carrying a large light bulb and he’s getting asked all the innocuous questions you know are you folk? What is your message? And someone asked me, what is your message? This is my message keep good had always carry a lightbulb and i thought that was probably about the best piece of advice i’ve ever heard in my life and i adopted is the personal mantra. And so when i launched my own firm, i said, you know, i’m gonna work. Deal be into this, get the light bulb in there and that’s t l b if you go to the website, you can learn a little more about that incident and the home page has ah, lightbulb image. It has a light bulb. Do we know why dylan was carrying, like both do you know this day? And no one knows, i think is this is the typical bob dylan thing where somebody handed in my white, bobby is like, this is cool, or maybe it’s not, but i’ll make it cool, okay, cool. There you go. All right, um, glad to have you back. I love it. You can come to studio all the time. Wonderful, yeah, it’s, great to be here. All right, so you got you got these nine tips for ah turbocharging, you know, kicking up your grantspace o gram to the next level. And you’ve got some advice that coincides with the panel. That was on last week when i moderated at the foundation center. Right. That’s cool. Yeah. Um, so let’s, i mean, let’s. Ah, what? Let’s overviewing first, what are what do you feel like non-profits just generally or not getting quite right when you got nine tips here about things that non-profit should be doing better, but just eyes the thinking not right around. Grants mean what? What? Generally what could we be doing smarter thinking better differently about grant? What grantspace wise? Well, i was looking grantspace as being the kind of philanthropy that brings to things to the table for a charity they bring a grant will bring you cash and also brings you cachet. Okay, so, it’s, thank you. Somebody else’s supporting you that they believe in your work. Exactly. Upleaf non-profit radio sponsors you got it. And the thing about getting grandfather bing is that you go through a more of a due diligence process, which means that if i’m able to go to aa donor-centric divisional donor and say i have a grant from this foundation of that foundation, and particularly if it’s a pretty well known foundation, it says to that person, han cubine through due diligence process. And so i think, first of all, it’s getting non-profits to think about what part does a grant or grants for a grant program play in their philanthropy, and also, i think, it’s the heart of the nine steps to turbo charging your grants, outreach, it’s, it’s all about rethinking your agency. It’s like rethinking your story. And how do you use that to engage foundations at a much higher level? And i think i’ve always held that any charity could do this. I mean, it is this is not just large charities is i think grassroots charities continue. We wouldn’t be on non-profit radio. This is all absolutely for the billion dollar endowment and above you got it. Yeah. Okay, now i know for sure they can. And that’s that’s why that panel was so valuable last. That was last week. Yeah, i think there was a lot of discussion about this. I mean, if you if your listeners go back and listen to that the podcast again, i mean, you’re going to hear these grantmaker sze talk about the importance not only of engagement. But it’s, coming in with a story and a vision for where your organization’s going next, and if you can get them to buy into that direction, you can not only get a grant that you could maybe could get a sizeable grant or an impactful grant, and they’re going to term grand exactly, yeah, changing the conversation, okay? And you’ve got ideas on that coming up, you know, thinking long term versus immediate and what’s recurring costs, etcetera and what’s growth costs will get there. Okay, so that’s the so the first one you have focusing on the right the right kind of money. Tio tio, ask for right, i think it’s understanding where your organization is and not trying teo under reach or overreach. So i think the important thing is i see a lot of charities come in and say, you know, i’m under filling under a lot of pressure from my board or the staff that i have to go for the gold swing for the fences and get gates may not be the right fit for you, it’s choosing the part of the donor pool you want to swim in as i’m find of telling. Clients and the other part of raising the right money is making sure that you’re not getting money that sets up expectations that you can’t fulfill this is another thing i ran into his a consultant is walking in the door and seeing a lot of grantspace literally lying around where the agency is struggling to fulfill the promises made, but they just weren’t able to bring the rest of the money and so it’s making sure that you’re driving the bus, that money is coming in to support your priorities and what you do. Well, yeah, so what causes this? This gap is it is not adequate planning on the part of the part of york, it can be inadequate planning, but, you know, i’m also fundraiser, and i acknowledge that a lot of us were there a lot of pressure to produce, and so it could be that, you know, we have boards, we have bosses who are, you know, asking us to go for this grant that grant and, you know, you’re just you’re you’re in response mode, the nine steps, i think get us back into doing this proactively so i you know, later in our conversation, we’ll talk about things like a strategic agenda and envisioning, and that kind of helps us, you know, move the ball forward, but close this gap between expectations and and reality. It’s usually said it better an idea tony must get say that so don’t think you should be sprite. What i’m just point out is that you’re surprised that i okay, hold i thought, it’s time for a break. I’m going to do something different. I’m going to wagner, cpas they are, they have i have with for them a brand spanking new testimonial. Um, coat weinger cps has taken the time to research and understand our rather unique industry and its regulations. Ah it’s a sign of their commitment to provide excellent service. They make themselves accessible to our team members, which speaks volumes on how much they care about their clients. And quote, this is from a midwest agency that finances alleviation of economic inequality. Look at this. They make themselves accessible, they care about their clients. Can you talk about your accountant and your audit firm that way? Can you say that about them? I mean, even get personal. I’m going to make this personal. I’m going to get ad hominum in a good way. You eat each tomb. This is the guy you want to talk to. You want to talk to eat, which tomb? It’s, personal wagner, cpas, dot com. Okay, let’s, go back to john and turbocharging your grants. Fund-raising yes, so we’ve got ideas coming up that air going toe close this gap, basically. Dahna let’s, see. What you want, talk about next, but you, you you, you you go well, we were timeout, visioning, and maybe we should talk a little bit about goal setting because i think that’s at the heart something related to what we’re just talking about you, if you don’t get that, you don’t have the goals right? Then the expectations are going toe is going to have that gap between what you asked for and what they’re expecting, right? And so well, in a lot of cases, gold setting stops at raise more money, and you did last year, our costs are going up here’s, where the costs are going up and that’s pretty much the end of the conversation, and what i’ve come to find out over time is that the organizations that seem to do a better job of getting money on the grant seeking side are the ones who think about their goals into categories there’s sustaining goals, which is essentially what are carrying costs just for the operations and carrying crossfit program so we still need to bring money in to make sure we keep the doors open. We keep doing the essential work that we do. Best, but then there’s another set of goals which relate to investment. So i call these investment goals, and i only think of it is you put money and you’re going to get a return on it, and we’re going to do something a bit more than you know we’re doing right now is so on the operation side, he could be staffing it could be strategic planning could be capacity building and ever on the program inside it’s all about creating new programs and growing new programs were growing the programs that you have. All right, so this carrying costs versus new investment, right? It’s it’s not this is not is not the same is short term versus long term. No, i think you know, because because carrying costs could be long term. Correct, right it. Is it those air like you’re basically your overhead? Is that fair? Or now? Nobody’s that’s programs program too, right? It’s programmed it. So just feel free to say you’re wrong. I’m not gonna shut your michael. Wait. We rarely occasionally we do, but i won’t let you, so okay, so, it’s. Not that right. It’s it’s you you’re forced to think long. Term if you want to make this type of, you know, new investment kind of asks, right? Exactly. I mean, i know another way of putting this is that sometimes, you know, i yeah, i’m so privileged to meet incredible people who are working miracles with small amounts of money. They come in with a fairly small, modest program, but when you look at what they’re doing, they’re making some pretty deep, meaningful change in people’s lives, and sometimes i’m so blown away by what they’re doing with limited resource is i’m i look at them and say, you know, if you’re doing this on a shoestring, imagine if we had the shoe yeah, she was all about the investment. Great. Where do we go next? And how do we take this? And either deep in it r r make it bigger look atyou extending the shoestring metaphor. Okay. So smart. Okay. So insightful. Okay, no, ramsey, if he had to shoot. All right, all right. Um, but now this you know, there might be a fear of putting the putting the potential funder off, because now we’re asking for more money. And if we’re looking at this new investment kind of money. We’re not going to put a thunder off by asking for more money if the money has a purpose. I mean, think about it this way. I remember our this sounds important years, i’m not going to put a funder off by asking for more? I don’t think so. I mean, you know, years ago i heard abigail disney talking to a group of non-profits at an event here in new york city, and some thing she said was that she says, yeah, i have a lot of money and i’m a philanthropist, but without you, my money means nothing because i don’t go where you go. I don’t do what you do. I don’t see what you see when i find you, you become my ears and you become my eyes and you become my hands, and any organization can be part of that picture. That’s very touching. Yeah, yeah, okay, so ask for what you need. Not what you think we’ll be approved. As for what you need and what you think you’ll get and ask for funding that’s going to get you to the right opportunity. So i always feel that philanthropy is about the possibilities, what we’re able to do next about opportunity, i remember once i had was working with an organization here in the city, and the ceo was taking a grantmaker through the building and showing them the program and talking about program growth and halfway through the visit, the thunder looked at the ceo and said, look, i know you’re going to be coming to me with a grant proposal, just make sure you ask me for enough money to do what you need to do, so you don’t have to come back and ask me again. Mmm, yeah, all right, they they want to be asked so they write tony with foundations remember, we’re dealing with the donor constituency that’s in the business of giving money away. Yeah, so let’s help them do their jobs and they want to do it right? They don’t want it. I have half cocked and then, like you said, you know, request to come back having to come back in eighteen months because you didn’t ask for enough, right? That that looks bad because you look at your not about you, not a good plan or then and you do the best. You can i mean, sometimes there are extenuating circumstances, but, you know, put some thought into it, and i think you know, most of our listeners, i’m sure do this. Well, we’re making sure that they will now i’m glad you said our listeners before he says my listeners, uh, and then you kept talking, so i let it go. But this time you said our listeners, they’re our listeners. They are our listeners, right pronounce non-profit radio uh, we should make that way to make that one might take aways okay, um, all right, so we have carrying cost versus new investment money. Now we have sustaining grants versus investment grants. What way? Supposed toe? You want us to be thinking about these? What does this mean? Right? So it’s thinking about yourself, gorgon jail, it’s, its’s, it’s sustaining great it’s, the staying expenses, investment expenses, and then the you have to think sustaining investment grants and the way you write these things are a bit different. I mean, sustaining is, you know, essentially you’re making the case in the proposal the application for why we need to keep the doors open and keep doing what we’re doing. And i think there’s grantspace driven by results, here’s what we accomplished last year, here’s what we have the promise of continuing to do this year with investment grand proposals, you’re talking about kicking it up a notch and you know where we’re going next to me? Here’s the roadmap here, the opportunities this is why we’re, you know, trying to grow a program from one hundred thousand dollars one hundred fifty thousand dollars, and the idea is it’s investment, i’m asking you to put money and with the promise or at least i’m the best of my ability. I’m promising that we’re going to get some stronger results. And so, it’s, i think it’s a little the way the proposal gets presented. It’s probably a little bit different in terms of some of the language and and some of the presentation, perhaps now, this sounds like some some of what was talked about in the panel that we have had on last week. Yeah, yeah, you had a number of the grantmaker she talked about, you know, that you have to not only just come in and show us the opportunities, but, you know, you have to show us that. You have ah, i’m going to use the metaphor of road map. You have an idea of how to get from point a to point b and why my money is going to make a difference. One of things i talked to my students a lot about in the class at columbia is that yes, professor, go ahead, share your sugar wisdom, you’re not a professor, but you know, they we talked a lot about risk taking a shin, which is maybe an odd thing to talk about a class on grantspace the end of the day, a lot of what we’re doing for donors just for major donor you can do it for foundation is your mitigating risk. You don’t want the donor to feel that they’re putting a lot of risk on the table when they give you money. So in what we’re fortunate in the world of foundations as we can right of thoughtful grand proposal make a nice presentation i can show you how to get from point a to point b so i can give you exhibit a so now subsumed in this, by the way wrote roadmap isa fine metaphor, just like you don’t go to automobiles that drive on roads, because then i won’t fault. You know, like i said, i t entrust my first experience with a phillips head screwdriver was very bad. So you can imagine me with a set of ratchets or whatever those things are called. This sounds a lot like the are no subsumed in this, though, is the thing that i get asked. A lot of i hear a lot about is, you know, should you ask for overhead support in your in your grants and subsumed in all this is is a definite yes, right? I mean, you got to keep the lights on. We gotta keep salaries paid, my approaching this the right way, what you are, i mean, that’s. The question that comes up quite frequently is the foundation’s fund. Overhead expenses, i think, first of all, there’s ah, there’s, ah, misguided notion that foundations don’t like to pay for overhead. I mean, there’s, a few foundations who don’t, but most of them understand it, and they get it. I mean, i mean, it’s essential, these essential essential expenses, they are essential to carry out the program if i can’t pay my rent. Exactly. And and the thing is, is that what what i find sometimes is that when you really start looking at the costs and the expenditures from from unorganised ation and how they’re supporting their programs, you find that expenses that are categorized as overhead or administrative or not, i mean, i work with all a lot of grassroots organizations, were the c e o is coming out of her office and she’s working with kids and she’s working with families? Well, she’s not overhead, she’s actually also direct program. So, you know, i mean, firstly can have toe really hold your budget up to the mirror and say, you know, is this truly accurate? I mean, you know, there’s, a lot of hard work and ceos out there, especially in grassroots organizations where their essential and so they’re a lot, you know, probably more of their costs might be included in a program budget for a grant proposal. Hard working for sure, we know that absolutely, um yeah, so yet you gotto any clients story that comes to mind, like we’re you know, they were thinking low and you encouraged them to think bigger, and they ended up being successful. Maybe they didn’t get every dollar they asked for, but they got something bigger than you bigger than they were initially asking for. Yeah, i mean, and i should hope so. I’m putting you on the spot? No. Never happened, you know? Then then we cut the mikes. No, absolutely not yours, you know, cut mine. Well, everything covered, like, well, first of all, i just try toe look, i get it goes back to the light bulb, you know, i just don’t get you, you know, i’m just i’m just simply illuminating what’s in front of us a lot of times, and i find that i have probably any number of stories where i’m working with a client, and all i have to do is show them that this foundation could give more money and they say, well, gee, i think i have these opportunities and get them to think it through, and i’m like, hey, i think i’ve got something i could take the foundation and they do a fabulous job of presenting an engaging the thunder. Maybe i have, you know, shown them that opportunity, but at the end of the day, you know, i want to give credit where credit’s due, my my krauz clans raise good money because my clients are really good, smart people who are doing great work. Well, it’s a collaboration, you’re also contributed a modest surprised to find a modest professor. There aren’t too many of those and they say no, professor, but i’m going to start a band still be called modest, professor, no, it’ll be de lb, everything in your life is deal be about the ball. Yes, modest professor deal bur but he asked me a specific example. I mean, recently i was working with i am working with ah, you know, wonderful charity on dh. They help kids with cancer. And you know what? What was really great was they had this wonderful opportunity to apply for a grant from a major national foundation and they had a great contact. And i think the early conversations was about a fairly modest create, maybe ten thousand dollars. And when we said that really looked at what the opportunity, wass you know, what could this charity do? Inspect the shoestring signal? Ten thousand bucks on a shoestring and what’s the shoot that you turned out to be fifty thousand dollars. So we worked up a proposal of fifty thousand dollars, and the upshot is the foundation funded it because they felt like it was a really good investment for their money. And i think they’re probably going to be happier giving the fifty thousand dollars and seeing what they get is a result. Look, just in case any of our listen, my voice just broke a fourteen year old voice krauz get out ok so far. Um, in the case, i mean, listeners, you know, it’s just have to be your first show. I mean, there’s over twelve thousand of you. So, you know, maybe some people come, i guess every week we get new editions if you wanted. You know no more about the nuts and bolts the relationship. Building specific strategy’s about that. You want to listen to last week’s show? Because that was a panel from the foundation center that i moderated and there’s a lot of discussion. That’s what? We were based on that the whole discussion was how to build your relationships with the with program officers. Foundations, foundations are made up of people so that’s, you know, like, certain possible john and i today r more hyre level enormously valuable and there’s all this strategy and planning and goal setting thinking through what you’re going to ask. This is enormously relevant too. But, you know, last week was mohr detail, i guess nuts and bolts on on the relationship building here today we’re below more strategic and high level. You see how the show fits together, you know that people think this just comes. It doesn’t just happen. This thing is planned out contrary to the belief of twelve thousand people listening. But it is planned. So i just got lucky this week and last week s o okay, you have measures around some of these things. You have measures for each of your nine nine strategies. Thiss one is just simple. What what’s the ratio of sustaining grants to investment grants. So we want to see maur, i presume. What? See maur investment grants, right? Thinking longer term. And you’re trying to grow your organisation and its its capacity. Well, i’m actually trying to look for healthier ballots. I mean, yeah, if i have a fair if i have a good core of sustaining grants, first of all, it says i have people who are renewing, okay? So they like, i mean, think about foundations like subscribers, they love the program, and they’re continuing to support a year every year of a year that’s a that’s, a great sign, but am i also bring in, you know, a good number of investment grants, that kind of kid again, kick it up a notch mean and get meat love every night for dinner, but if i’d given the topping on it every once a while, i mean, it gets more interesting, so there you go. Okay, this is a vegan show, so that was a bad metaphor now, i don’t know, i just made that up just to embarrass you. Now, listeners, you can have anything you want. I don’t care if you’re over lacto, you know, whatever i belong to buckslip food co op, but you don’t have to dahna yeah, eat whatever you like. Okay, make sure you have the right grantmaker tze on your list, okay, and this sounds to me this one sounds a little like it’s coordinated with your goal. Wolf, you want your goals and your and the people, the organization’s you’re asking for money from to be consistent, but you can say it more articulately than that. I cannot know what i mean by that is do you have? Do you have recognized leaders supporting him? Program? I mean, if i just giving examples, i work, i do a fireman or work in the youth development world works with your various charities who do wonderful work here. And if they want to bring a new program online sometimes where my research starts, this isn’t terribly scientific. But it’s look at well, who were the top ten foundations funding this kind of work? Say, in new york city? Or in whatever community, wherever you’re between your work, can i land three of them? Can i bring three thought leader foundations who work in this space to the table and have them funding my project? That’s that to me that’s the right set of funders? I mean, that’s that helps me with my focus. So i’m not chasing money all over the place. This is very strategic thinking, though, you know, you’re not just looking for foundations that support the work you do, but specifically, you know, some of the leadership foundations. Yeah, support you. One of the things that about that panel discussion, which i thought was so great i moderated. Thank you know, is it was thank you. It was artful. Thank you. Was all thank you’s. Absolutely. Thank you. I thank you again. Thank you very much for that. Thank you. The thie it was just that there was so much conversation about partnership. I kept hearing a word over and over and over and over again. And i think foundations are looking for really good charities to partner with. And we should think about that on the set in reverse, like, well, which foundations? So i want partnering with me on this work that i’m going to dio and that helps toe open. That conversation makes the conversation natural, and it makes the proposal flow means were there for a reason. Ilsen all right, john hicks together. Uh, ask you to hold on temporarily because, uh, let’s, take a break. Pursuant. They have a new resource for you, and it is. Demystifying the donor journey it’s ah it’s, a white paper demystifying the donor journey, overcome stewardship, stumbling blocks and build deeper relationships with donors i love i’m going to just give you a sample of some things from the table of contents. Where are you taking your donors? Three common stewardship stumbling blocks? Step back and consider the ideal donor experience stand out with immersive digital experiences place an extreme focused on the beginning of the journey and making the donor experience a top priority, and then it closes with next steps. So that’s what’s in this white paper, i want to take a couple of pull quotes out of it, it’s an undeniable fact the donor experience and how we steward them is directly tied to retention in a major and impactful way, and retention is the key to building a long term, sustainable fund-raising program end quote, right? So you’ve heard we’ve had lots of guests on reminding you the cost of acquiring new donors vs keeping the donors you’ve already got. So that’s what this white paper is geared towards helping you do keep the donors, you’ve got it’s all about stewardship, you know there’s a pull. Quote an international donor experience? Erase that reverse quote an intentional donor experience is essential in today’s increasingly noisy world stewardship works. Developing a donor journey isn’t just a nice thing to do for your donors, it’s one of the leading influencers in their desire to give again again, you know, it’s keeping the donors you’ve got. Then it goes into almost things i read off on the table of contents and you are going to find it at the listener landing page, which is tony dot m a slash pursuant radio okay, time now for tony’s take to you knew it was coming your daughter relationships. Now we’re on the individual side talking about institute institutional with john and pursuing and some content in the individual side, you need to go deeper than the dollars that come in from your individual donors. They do they tell you they’d like to do more, but they can’t or they sincere about that than you. My advice? You probably should be sticking with them. Don’t give up on them. Keep on building your relationship with them. The gifts will come just you got to be patient if you believe that they are. Sincere about their desire to doom or stay with them. And i say more about that on my video, which is look beyond the numbers and it’s at tony martignetti dot com i’m driving in their lets people passing to see how slow you’ll see how slow i drive on many five i even got an email about a ll the people passing me in the video. It’s embarrassing. Okay, it’s, time for live listen, love, we’ve got to do it, and, uh, we’re starting out. San francisco, california, westfield, massachusetts alright, west to east love it, um, brentwood, new york, new york, new york, multiple it’s always multiple new york, new york he’s here in new york, new york just think multiple all the time. Um oh my going back eating, going back west, garden grove, california. We got anything in between california and new york and massachusetts don’t know. North hollywood, california, staten island, new york. I don’t know, there’s. Nobody. Ah, fly over territory is not listening today. Live, of course. You know that catch the podcast twelve thousand. Um, they mention twelve thousand listeners. Could do, um, let’s. Go abroad. Germany. Gooden! Todd! Oh, there’s something. Abroad. Oh, that’s, not abroad. Tampa, florida that’s, then that’s domestic? Yeah, that’s here. Okay kapin florida’s there. But still we still got big fly over territory. Not with us live today, germany. Guten ta q kay, i don’t know which country is that northern ireland is wales, scotland or england by population. Of course it’ll be england, so but i don’t want to presume uk welcome. You live here with us? Um, houston in the czech republic, wonderful live with their love to you, and i think that covers the ones we got so far. And on the heels of that, of course, has to come the podcast pleasantries. Did i mention over twelve thousand? I’m not sure if i did over twelve thousand listeners in the time shift, whatever device, whatever time i’m grateful that you are with us pleasantries to the podcast listeners and the affiliate affections to our am and fm stations throughout the country, including fly over territory, by the way. But they’re not listening live because their station puts the show in wherever, wherever they want in their weekly schedule. But affections always go. I don’t care what time you’re listening day or night. We could a weekend affections to our am and fm affiliate listeners throughout the country back to you now. John hicks. We’re going t o keep terrible charging. All right? Oh, that was your that was your word. I did not. I would use it a lot of times. I don’t. I’ll use what guests aa recommend that the log topic says, or what their article says that i like. But i thought, you know, we’ll be adventurous. Let’s go with turbo charge. Alright, i made an exception for you. Thank you, tony. My pleasure. Um, let’s, move on. So what do we say? Everything. Well, we see everything we want to say about the right grantmaker before we move on. I mean, we’ve we’ve we’ve started with goals that we’ve we’ve kind of looked internally. What do we need to do by way of list, bill building. And now we’re goingto start talking about some external things. Okay. Okay. So, let’s, do you want talk about? Well, we start with the next one, which is building your v q. Vic you don’t you get us out and get yourself out of george in jail. What’s that there’s enough and define your visibility closure, yeah, which is, you know, it is what it is. I mean, the idea is that you want to be visible. Um, i bonem i think that grantmaker sze don’t i work in a bubble? And sometimes we think that you know, grantmaker is they sit in their offices and they kind of stay and they’re on their side of the street, we stay on our side of the street. The reality is that a lot of grantmaker zehr just out there and looking, they’re very aware of our community of practice, and they get to know who we are largely by are just being out there and being visible. So, you know, any time i’m working with a nonprofit organization and the ceo gets out of his or her office and they go to events and they are in the press and they are writing and they air speaking and they’re publishing and they’re advocating grantmaker sze get to know them, and i think that counts and i feel that a part of that quote oppcoll turbocharging processes thesis turbocharging to the ground now we’re not going to beat it to the ground, but part of it is, the more you’re out there, and you’re raising the visible the for your mission and your agency and your work, the better it is for you. I mean, it helps you with framing your grant proposal and who you are and what you’re able to dio credibility. Is that very good? It was another word for this credibility, but that will be your seek. You. But you prefer vik you. Well, let me see you as well. Could be sick. You don’t want to rewrite your blood post anything, all right? And it could be fashionable geek. So, yeah. Okay, uh, that would be your grants, your grants quotient. There you go. Um, now, a lot of this came out in the panel from last week. People, we were talking a lot about networking being visible in the community going to events. Yes. And you and you start to get known essentially, what you’re saying is you’re saying, right? And the only maybe knew once i’d throw on this is that i mean, there’s, there’s visibility. I like to think about visibility with content. And what i mean by this is you can go to parties and goto events and you can meet people, but what do you leaving them with? What impression are you making? And so some of the things we’re going to be talking about such a sze yu know yur strategic agenda where your organization’s going next-gen part of is having a story to tell someone when you meet that grantmaker here’s, here we are, here’s the opportunities that are in front of us love to come and talk to you more about it. So you know you’re you’re peeking their interest. Yeah, for sure. You you want to not only be visible, but you wantto have credibility behind that content behind that. You wanna make a good first impression is imagine how good it would be if if a funder got your application and already knew your name, do the organization name before they even when the application arrives right there knew in advance, right? Because you’re in the community. And of course, being in the community includes thie online communities, the online network you want to build your vic you there as well? Absolutely mean any. You know, the way i look at it is the when your proposal shows up. In the foundation’s office, with a bunch of other proposals, if they’ve heard of you, they’re going to pick up them, philip, and they’re going to read the letter. They’re going to read the proposal. I can’t pretend that doesn’t happen. Yeah, there’s a wonderful book, which i have my students at columbia read every semester by a guy named martin ty tell which is the insider’s guide to grantmaking and it’s a great behind the scenes look at the grantmaking process and and he talks about things like this i mean, you know that, you know, if we know something about the organisation, it doesn’t hurt, yeah. Oppcoll have you ever seen where a foundation approached a, uh a potential fundez ee ah, non-profit and asked for a asked for a proposal, i was sure it happens all the time. I think it does. I think that particularly the foundations who hyre professionals, i mean, think about this way a part of your job when you work for a foundation is to make the board of the foundation smarter about what’s going on in the world that they’re being asked to fund in, so if you’re out there, if i worked for a foundation, and i get to know something about the work of your organization. I might pick up the phone, call you and say, hey, i want to learn more about you as a member of one of my classes got a call from a foundation pretty major foundation wasn’t along our radar screen, they just called out of the blue and said, and we’ve been hearing about you would love to come and talk to you just happen to stand absolutely wasn’t on your radar screen out. Does that mean you’re doing defective research? Inadequate, nick? No, this is a no, no, this is actually a donor. Advised funds that size that’s a whole nother time can’t find that. Yeah, those air, those air buried what their funding is very, very hard to find. Yeah, it’s, not it’s, not public. Really it’s not anywhere. Is it it’s? Really? Not now. Okay. No negligent research buy-in deal. Bx make that clear. Make that explicit. They do not do negligent research. Okay, um okay. Strengthening your network. This is very much related. Strengthening your network. Um, strong foundation. And you know grantmaker zehr. Are they doing this? You want to be wanted again? You will be out and known in the community. Yes, it might be a question. You know, i would be asking this question, which is, well, what’s the difference between your visibility quotient and the network? Well, the network is actually taking a role of x and all the people that you’re meeting and all the people who are supporting you and beginning to reverse engineer it a bit. You know, one of your panelists on the show last week and talk about our gave a great example of, well, if i’m funding you, i could introduce you to other funders, and that happens more frequently there. That was a good conversation, absolutely. And it makes a lot of sense because usually a, you know, think of it this way foundation once they’ve written the check and they’re supporting you there a stakeholder, they have a vested interest in seeing you bring other money to table toe, build on what they’ve helped you to create or to grow or expand. And there’s nothing wrong with working that in reverse, you know, just a strategy, a tip for everyone and i’m seeing this work is thie. Get a funder got one of your grantmaker zoho ask them to host some kind of a gathering where you can come in and talk about your work and what you’re seeing as a result of your work or talk about a topic were they inviting to this? They’re usually inviting grantmaker sze whom they know because they want to help you. You get your story out there and get people to know you. I mean, it’s, not a solicitation. You’re not going to be handing out pledge cards on the individual side. It’s the same is like a parlor gathering. Exactly. Exactly. It’s ah, you know, it’s always better in the parlor. This is usually the boardroom, but well, yeah, because it’s institutional, but there, there, there there are parallels. Yeah, you get don’t don’t don’t hurt my analogy. I mean, i went along with your metaphors. Metaphors and analogies are important. Yes. I adopted your terrible judgment metaphor. So, you know, you certainly couldn’t support my analogy. I’m totally supporting her nails. It is only a mall there. That’s analogous ball is what makes it an analogy of all is ok. Um, yeah. So you’ve seen this work? You’ve seen this absolutely wonders will do it. It’s common it’s more common than you think. I emerging pro tip now. Well, you know, beyonc, this is a this is a pretty old school approach. When they were doing it, then they felt they stopped doing it mean grantmaker sze then now they’re doing it again. I think the key to making this happen is being ableto walk in with a presentation that has really information. It’s not just a come meet my agency and this’s what’s happening in this area. Yeah, in this fund, in this priority that we know you’re all funding, right? Here’s, what we’re seeing here is troubles we see coming in the future. Here’s opportunities. Yeah, right. It’s like, sort of analysis. Like a market announcer. Yeah, exactly. You’re also very positioning yourself is a thought leader. You know, i have information for you. I have some best practices for you and they can get a good conversation going. Okay, i love that. Okay. Yeah, i don’t think my right. It’s not. I don’t think a lot of people are thinking that way. It’s great and approach to approach your funders and asked them tio to do it. Okay, so what’s your measures for that one for strengthening your network. I mean, the measures i have here, you know how many meetings with colleagues or potential donors that we secure? I think a big part of it is. Did you get out of your office and go meet with your grantmaker zx? Did you did you meet with colleagues? Did you see how much did you use that roll of x and the other is, you know, how many potential grant orders that we add to the network? That’s? The other thing too, is, is you can meet grantmaker zand not asked them for money, but you can get to know them. Add them to the network. Maybe the timing isn’t right. Maybe you are not ready for a bill. Imola. The gates foundation grant, but doesn’t prevent you from getting to know a program. Officer cates, i mean, maybe they can’t give you money, but maybe they could suggest other people. You can talk to me. I find a lot of its disappearance. Simple networking. What would your follow-up be, teo? To an event like that? Eyes the eyes, the non-profit that present what’s. Interesting. I just had a conversation with a client before camp here for the show. I’m aware that i heard about what we’re talking about. Numbers about that, well, years, years and years of steady and very deep. Don’t don’t underestimate, yeah, i am not underestimating you. Slice it, it’s, essentially, they’re producing a white paper on one topic, and they’re going to use that as the follow-up tow an event, so they’re going to have some grantmaker is in the room, and they can follow-up with content latto demonstrate how good you are, and there you have it. Take a break, indulge me for a break momentarily, please. Tillers credit card payment processing. You gotta check out their video it’s at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us this is your this is your passive revenue stream. You watch this video and then get businesses in your community. They may already. I think your best prospects are the ones that are already supporting you get them to watch the video and ask them to consider switching their credit card processing from whoever’s, doing it now and gouging them on fees over to tell us why would they do that? Tell us has a hundred percent satisfaction among among the companies that use them, and also their fees or lower. And in fact, if they can’t reduce the fees, then they’re going to give you the non-profit that referred the company two hundred fifty dollars, so you can’t lose but that’s not that’s, not that’s. The short money the long money is the company that you refer, that they look at the fees they sign up with. Tell us and then you the non-profit will earn fifty percent of the revenue month after month after month that tell us earns from that business or hopefully businesses so that’s the long money that’s, the long stream, one hundred percent satisfaction. So the likelihood of a company leaving tell us is low. Check out the video it’s at tony dot m a slash tony tell us now is time to finish up with john hicks and turbocharging the metaphor that i very graciously, i think adopted. John john doesn’t acknowledge that granite graciousness, but but i acknowledge it for myself. Okay, have we exhausted o and then now you had one more measure for strengthen your network. How many potential? Grantspace? No, you did say that. How many do we add to our network? And they were talking about the follow-up see that’s, my trouble cone and coming back follow-up anything more to say about content paper seems like a very good idea. Yeah, yeah, i mean, just, you know, come out, come back with something that would be useful to the thunder. And yes, sometimes we that’s a grant starts with not asking for money, but giving the thunder something that they can use. Okay, for sure. Giving them yeah, you’re a team player. You’re adding value to the community, right? That we’re all funding. Okay, you got build. A bigger footprint what’s this all about building a bigger footprint is think about two things one which is, can i take the work that i’m doing and how my leveraging it leveraging means either working in partnership with another organization or being a resource to another organization i made that, you know, provide the kinds of services your charity does, tony, but maybe you’re able tto refer kids or families to me and i can help. Well, that’s building a bigger footprint, another way of building a bigger footprint could be working on a consortium product project excuse me, and another way of thinking about is, you know, deepening the impact of what you’re doing. I mean, i’ve worked with a lot of organizations where they may work on a program where the maximum number of kids they conserve might be fifty, sixty, seventy it’s less than a hundred kids. But if they’re able to provide a deeper level of service that’s expanding the footprint because they’re going to get stronger results and it becomes a demonstration site and a placed oh, test out best practices. So you too, changing the conversation, it’s, not just a programme. It’s helping. Seventy kids. It’s, it’s actually working in a very deep and meaningful way. This is related to one of the earlier points. Maybe was the first one the investment in long, long term investment type grant seeking exactly exactly. So i just think it’s, you know, leverage as much as he possibly can were you just rewording these things so that you could come up with nine? You know, it was you had seven naralo like you had six and then you weren’t satisfied that seemed weak. So you had to they are a little different. They are a little different, but i don’t want these padded that we’re not about it. I guarantee they’re not all right hyre we’re on here, you know, we don’t we don’t accept aah! Slack content on non-profit radio no, we don’t have that here. We never have except that one time we did the show on on on the fermentation oh, yeah, that was that was that was bad content. I thought i thought we’d try something completely unrelated, which was in the podcast world. Big mistake, but i learned immediately fermentation in the middle of the guests that wasn’t even happy, but i i couldn’t shut him off. I didn’t have a heart. I invited him. It was my idea. Okay, the fermentation that was bad content. But that was one out of three hundred seventy seven shows. This happens to be shown over three hundred seventy seven. So, you know, you could forgive one one, three hundred seventy seventh, actually. And then if you count the number of guests mean, lots of shows have two guests, so, you know, we’re up, like, eight hundred ghetto and then some have four guests, so we’re over a thousand guests like, one out of one thousand one one thousand point zero zero one that that one one thousand? Yeah. That’s not one ten thousand point xero xero ones that one one thousand it is felt that is ten hundred thousand one one thousand. So one one thousandth of the guests being slack, you should stick with non-profit radio it’s a safe bet i’m gonna do all my budget. There was a small digression, but yeah, now you don’t want me doing numerical analysis. I didn’t even know i wasn’t sure what the point zero zero one was one month out osili two interns in the room, looking it up, they haven’t even answered it yet. Um, i need an intern. I need an intern. If everybody i need something to blame for this. So so, you know, the one one thousand i need something to blame on that. Blame that on. So if you if you could suggest if you know anybody want to be an intern from non-profit radio, have them come have them send a resume because i need something to blame. Let’s move on to ah, now we get to the this’s with strategic agenda cubine teasing this all show strategic agenda. What is it? Well, strategic agenda is i don’t know if i’m among the only one uses this term, but i mean it’s just basically being able to say to a grantmaker here’s where we’re going the next eighteen, twenty four, thirty six months and here’s where our focus is going to be and hear the most important things that we need to be doing to make a significant difference in the world. I mean, you could say strategic plan. But whenever i say the word strategic plan, the client’s inevitably think, well, are we looking at going through? A six month, nine month process of planning and introspection sometimes there just isn’t time to do that, and what i’m just trying to come up with is, you know, if you met a grantmaker tomorrow and you want to try toe, have a conversation to get that grantmaker really interested in possibly giving you money, i’d like to be able to not just say here’s, my mission statement here is the work we’re doing. It’s wow, let me tell you about the opportunities we have. We’re going to be doing a, b, c, d and e and you had a number of grantmaker tze on that panel going backto last week’s show who talked about it’s better not to come to us with just one idea asking us to find it because, i mean, when the panel said, what if you pitch the wrong thing to me? And i say no? Then the conversation stops come to me with a general overview of what you’re doing so, yeah, walking with a general overview, but the way you i think undress this up is to say, hey, here’s, where i have some opportunities to accomplish some really exciting good for people and whatever the time horizon you’re working with twelve, eighteen, thirty six, whatever the number of months and you could piqued their interest, how do you prove that the money would be well spent? Because it’s it’s all it’s all prospective? Well, if you’re going to put anything on a strategic agenda, you you have to have your hands around the numbers, like, you know, right now, i mean, i’m thinking of one fly in where they’ve launched for fairly new initiatives in the last year and those initiatives air showing promise there, working in some challenging communities here in new york city, they know their numbers, they know how many families there working with. They know how many kids and adults are impacted. They all said no, how much they could grow this program if they were able to bring in enough money. So there’s story, if we meet any thunder, is that, you know, we’re working with nine thousand people across four sites we know we have the ability and the opportunity to work with fifteen thousand our budget is x if we’re able to raise it toe why we can make this happen that’s a pretty powerful story. So so grantmaker maybe that’s a good use of your money. Excellent. Excellent. John’s giving you think you just just wrote you a template for ah, one paragraph you got expand on that. You got what you need. You need deal be hicks to help you out. So all right, let’s, go to our last our last of the turbo charging strategies. Know where you’re heading next? Yeah. So that means the other strategic agenda? Yeah. It’s like, essentially, you know, this gets us in the long term, you know, do we do we have a long term story for our agency or you do it? It’s, you know, if we’re able to go from a to b ing the next thirty six months, but just kind of looking at, you know, beyond the horizon, you know, this is where we think we’re going next. This is the part of a conversation with a grantmaker on believe and sometimes it gets evident when the application our proposal that proves to grantmaker that you have a clear understanding of who you are, where you’re going, where you sit in your field and that you have a you have a realistic sense of scope. And i think that’s awfully awfully important. You’re able to do this and you engage him a different level than you get the money and you turbo charge. Oh, john, look, look. The wrap up, he does. You see that? Look at that, huh? And you, turbo charge. All right, we gotta leave it there. He’s. John hicks. Cfr e you’ll find him at deal be hicks and deal be hicks dot com deal be, of course, don’s lightbulb. Thank you very much, john hooks. Well, thank you for having me on real pleasure having you back. Thank you. Next week, any sample ward returns? What about buying likes and fans? If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, sepa is dot com and till his credit card and payment processing you’re passive revenue stream tony dahna slash tony tell us. Ah, creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. And this very cool music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Be with you next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. 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