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[00:00:12.58] spk_1:
welcome tony-martignetti non profit radio big

[00:01:47.54] spk_2:
non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of leptospirosis if you infected me with the idea that you missed today’s show. Google Ad grants These are generous grants up to $10,000 per month. What do you need in place to take advantage of the grants? How do you get in what are best practices? Plus advice on three year old tantrums from a father of six? Here it all from Chris Barlow at Beeline and be a payment processing pro. You’ll keep more of your online gift if you make informed decisions about online payment processors. They’re not all the same are 20 and TC Panel gets you where you’d like to be. They’re Christina. Snore with American Near East Refugee Aid Lily Aiko from every action and Maureen will be off at practical wisdom for non profit accidental techies. Tony Steak to a free how to guide were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen. Two dot ceo. Here is Google ad Grants

[00:01:50.14] spk_4:
It’s

[00:02:23.09] spk_1:
my pleasure to welcome Chris Barlow to the show. He is the director of Beeline, a marketing firm that helps nonprofits further their missions and grow their supporter bases through Google ads. The man, the main the main hat he wears is being a father to six kids, six kids and trying to raise them bilingual. Although most of the credit for that goes to his German wife. The company is at beeline dot marketing, and he’s at Beeline. Underscore, Chris, Chris Partlow. Welcome to the show.

[00:02:24.94] spk_0:
Thank you very much, tony.

[00:02:26.54] spk_1:
Pleasure to have you six kids. How old do they?

[00:02:30.04] spk_0:
My oldest is 13 and just start 13. My youngest is 18 months.

[00:02:41.09] spk_1:
Okay, That’s Ah, that’s a lot of kids by today’s standards. 60 s. Yeah, right.

[00:02:48.59] spk_0:
We’ve learned that we’ve learned a thing or two about how to do more with less by the share. I think that helps helps with the understanding what nonprofits after that make do it.

[00:02:58.56] spk_1:
Okay. And and eight people together during a pandemic. No school. What the, uh, were the prospects for school in Fort Collins, Colorado, this fall.

[00:03:32.84] spk_0:
Um, so they as of yesterday, they closed schools and, Ah, but we weren’t too worried about it. Our kids go to we’re just doing, ah, once a week school and and home school the other day. So we’re used to having him around. Yeah. Uh, OK. They were sad to have that. Their their enrichment classes canceled, but yeah, I’m sure, But we’re we work. We’ve been doing pretty well. It’s, uh that’s all. Things considered eight

[00:03:34.94] spk_1:
people eight people together is a lot. Yeah, and one is the youngest is with 13 months.

[00:03:40.07] spk_0:
18 months. Yeah,

[00:03:43.54] spk_1:
OK, OK. All right. I don’t Maybe this is a distraction for you from from family. No, no, not at all. Okay. Google ad grants. So the company gives up to $10,000 a month for advertising, which for most of our listeners, at least many of our listeners, that’s a lot of money and maybe even too much. So how’d oh, Adam people know if if the grants or something that they should even apply for

[00:05:19.37] spk_0:
that’s a really good question. Um, right. Cause the one thing that separates Google ad grants from any other kind of grant that I know off is, um if you’re eligible, you’re pretty much guaranteed to get in the program. If you can get through the application process, it’s not a matter of whether you’re gonna win the craft or not. So the more important question is is our non profit positions to make use of this? Is it going to be worth our time? Um, and there are four main things that, um, I would consider as a non profit to help you decide. Help me decide whether this is a program I should apply for. Um, I’ll just list them real quick, and then we want to look at talk about each one we can is how how big is our region that we serve or the or the our donor base? Are people actually searching for what we do on the Internet? Um, how strong is our website and our digital presence and forth? Do we have announced expertise or some budget to to help manage this this grant program in the ads? Okay, um, I can list those region,

[00:05:20.68] spk_1:
right? Right. Your region. And are people searching?

[00:05:24.54] spk_0:
Yeah. How strong is our digital presence or the website? Right broker and then in house expertise or budget.

[00:05:30.64] spk_1:
Okay, so let’s talk about the region. Why is why is this important?

[00:05:55.54] spk_0:
So it you can if you are a local non profit only serving within your city, you can still make use of blue black grants depending on how big your city is, or I should say anyone can apply, of course, and you can get it. But if you’re in a small city and there’s a limited amount of people searching it made, the results may not be that impactful. Okay,

[00:06:05.33] spk_1:
so you’re gonna have to put some time into creating your ad grants campaign, right? There is a potential downside if the upside isn’t gonna be significant enoughto justify it

[00:06:46.34] spk_0:
exactly. Now, I work with nonprofits in S cities, cities of you know, 150,000 people, and it’s worth it to them. Um, but, you know, if it again that the larger your region is, the bigger impact advance will be for him. So if you’ve got donors across the country or you you want to start if you if you feel like you’re going, you could have Ah, if you have a large enough mission that people could from around the nation could support you. And you want to get donors through the campaign that’ll work. Or if you serve a really large area, um, again, Then it’ll be worthwhile program. Okay, From matter.

[00:07:05.13] spk_1:
If you’re in a small community, what’s the word of mouth? People know you. Just because everybody knows the handful of nonprofits in town, there’s probably not a lot of advantage for you. Yep. Okay, if you’re not serving a broader a broader base than your small community, Okay, so so at least really to the next point. You are people searching for what you do,

[00:08:19.44] spk_0:
right? Yep. So I’m unlike a nab that you would do on social media or, you know, on a website where you put a banner you are with Google ads. You can only do keyword based ads on a Google search, and so you are limited by the number of people who are searching, So maybe you’re across the nation. But for whatever reason, what you do is very niche or people don’t think no, you even exist or even that your service’s exist. So people aren’t necessarily going to be searching for what you do or anything related. If that’s the case, you You know, I What I recommend is doing some research. There are some free tools online that you could get an estimated number of searches being done, and you could just put in different keywords and c o r people searching for this problem that we solved on. If you’ve If you find that, OK, there are, then it might be worth it. But if if if it’s really niche, you know, no one searching for what you guys do, then it’s gonna be limited. What you’re the impact is gonna be for you. So that’s one way you can kind of make the decision.

[00:08:20.84] spk_1:
Chris, can you name wanted to those sites that people can use to estimate search traffic around phrases?

[00:08:41.34] spk_0:
Yes. Um, there is one called ECM Rush s search engine marketing SCM Rush. Um, there’s another one called Spy Fu. Um, and if you just do a search, Okay? Google Google has one. It’s themselves that you can use to Google keyword planner.

[00:08:49.54] spk_1:
And how do you spell ZX by food?

[00:08:52.06] spk_0:
S s p y like you’re spying f you like, come food.

[00:09:09.51] spk_1:
Okay, I would said fo So I’m glad you said okay. SP y f you okay? Just in case listeners want to do their own the test marketing of some keywords to see whether people are searching for what they’re with their work is and then your your digital presence.

[00:10:48.04] spk_0:
Yeah, So it kind of depends on what your goal is. Um, for the campaigns. If you, um, are a local non profit and you have service is for the community a large enough community that it’s worth, um, you know, using Google advance, Um, then maybe you don’t need if you’re if you’re very service but based your in person or you’re bringing meals or whatever it might be you don’t. Your website needs to be good, but it doesn’t need to have anything particularly compelling. It just needs to really show what you guys do. And and, of course, if you want donors your goals to get donors, you need to have you need to tell your story really well digitally because you’re trying to bring new people to your site and tell your story. But if you’re just trying to help people access, your service is it just needs to really make the point clear and across and no say whether it’s making appointment with you or or showing up to one of your pop up events or whatever it might be that your non profit does. The website doesn’t necessarily need to be, you know, really, really, you know, amazing content. But if your goal is, um to get donors, yeah, you need. If you want to get people to subscribe and want to keep learning about your mission, then you have to tell your story well, and you know you have to have If you have video, that’s gonna be really important. Um, some some nonprofits, um, you know, you they provide their service is digitally they have on my courses, um, or other online resource is they’re gonna probably already have a really good digital presence. And there are a perfect fit for Google ad grants. I worked with a non profit. They do parenting resources, and so, you know they have people searching pit parents are searching across the country. How do you know sibling conflict in the midst of a pandemic and

[00:10:54.82] spk_1:
you could write those you can. You should be a contributing blogger for them

[00:11:08.59] spk_0:
Yeah, exactly. So? So they get tons of people who are finding them and go there blawg and download stuff and get on to the email list. And and so that’s what they’re great fit. Um, but you have to if you know, the stronger your online presence is stronger, website them or impact that the grants is gonna have you.

[00:11:31.68] spk_1:
Okay, cool. And then either needs some in house expertise, I guess, to manage all your campaign and or you need to have some money to spend. So I take it this is not something that say an executive director can take on and and learn and then manage when you know it’s like a one or two employees shop.

[00:11:40.44] spk_0:
I don’t think so. If you’re

[00:11:42.34] spk_4:
in

[00:11:57.16] spk_0:
the executive director with some marketing experience, are already have worked with Google, I would say, definitely, you don’t have to be running perfectly, Um, because you’re getting free ad spend. If you waste some of it, it’s not a big deal. Um, it doesn’t have to be perfect. And if you, um,

[00:11:59.24] spk_1:
there’s a learning curve to, there’s

[00:12:00.40] spk_0:
a learning curve, you have to spend a little time learning, and it isn’t the most time intensive kind of campaign you can run, but yeah, you can’t just expect you can do it while you’re wearing five other hats and you’ve never done it before. You need to have someone who can learn it in your house in house, for you have to know the higher it.

[00:12:21.84] spk_1:
Okay. Like the B line marketing? Yeah, for example, for example. Right. Okay. Okay, um, now you don’t have to take all $10,000 I guess. Or do you? Should you, Justin, may as well spend as much as you can.

[00:12:48.04] spk_0:
Yeah. You may as well spend as much. You can’t some. The thing is, it’s at 10,000 per month. 329 per day is what it actually is. So, um, you might hit that $300 million spend in our A nonprofit that really is able to spend it might hit that number really fast, and then you’re out of budget for the day. But if you’re only spending 2000 of it Hey, that’s $2000. You weren’t spending before, and now you’re getting that kind of exposure?

[00:13:03.04] spk_1:
Yeah. Okay. You may as well take the maximum and and work with it and play with it. All right, So if we feel like we’ve got our our foundation laid the way you’re just describing, how do you apply?

[00:14:28.40] spk_0:
Um, so you can just go to Google for non profits and you have tow. Essentially, you can start the application there. You have to be basically be approved by rule. As a non profit organization, they you start with tech soup, you get it verified by tech soup as non profit. Okay, that’s what Google uses to do the non profit verification process. And then applying for Google for nonprofits is really easy. That doesn’t take too much time. Um, and I have a guide. I’m happy to share with you, tony, that people can follow step by step. Uh, the checklist. The harder part is, once your angle for non profits, you have to apply for at grants. And, um, that involves setting up a campaign a start, you know, starter campaign. It doesn’t have to be what you find, you know, you can continue to work on it and change it, but you have to start with something and go will review that campaign and say, OK, you’ve done. You’ve chucked dot all your i’s and cross border tease. Your campaign looks ready to go. And now we will give you the grabs. Okay, Okay. And at the guy offer. And you could find stuff online. Two guides to to apply. What does you know Kind of give you those steps, but it doesn’t tell you how to do the campaigns that, but Google also does some of that on their site.

[00:14:39.74] spk_1:
Is this guide at your site be lined up marketing guy? Do you have?

[00:14:40.56] spk_0:
Yeah, it’s some. Yeah, it’s just under my service is tap. Um, but I’m also happy to send it to anyone who asks.

[00:14:52.64] spk_1:
OK, OK, well, people can go to your website. I don’t want you to be burdened with 1000 emails.

[00:15:22.29] spk_2:
It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As paycheck protection program. Loan forgiveness. This is still out there looming. You need to get your forgiveness application in. Wegner has you covered? They’re free. Webinar explains p p p loan forgiveness. Go to wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click resource is and recorded events. Now back to Google ad grants with Chris Barlow.

[00:15:35.04] spk_1:
If we’ve now we’ve applied, we’ve been approved. What are some good practices. Let’s start off with what’s your top tip for using this? This $10,000 a month?

[00:17:07.23] spk_0:
Yeah. Obviously, this is kind of an obvious thing, but you want to think about what your goal is and decide what it conversion ISS, and you might have more than one goal or war. The one conversion, a lot of non profit Start with, um, how can we further our mission and help more people find us? Just that we that we conserve because those people are a lot more likely to convert, um, those that that requires less effort because you’re there to help them already and whether you’re serving them physically and you’re just making them helping them avail them of your service is or they can get something online digital from your block or whatever. Um, that is a much quicker win. Um, if you want to grow your supporter base, um that, you know, again, just being aware of what your goal is and deciding what is the smallest step a person can take toward that goal, like of my ultimate goal, is to get supporters and donors. Then what’s the smaller step that someone can take, you know, the first time they come to our site, they’ve never heard of us. The smallest step they can take is to watch one of our videos. Or can we get them to sign up for our analyst? Because if they just come to our site one time and go away, we have no way to reconnect with those people. We don’t know who they are. So the importance of realizing that Google ad grants is great for getting people to your site. Um, but you need to really know what their next step is gonna be. And the smaller that is, the easier that is, the more likely they’re going to take that step.

[00:17:15.53] spk_1:
Did you have a specific landing page of what? Your advance? Incoming traffic?

[00:17:43.81] spk_0:
Yeah. Depends. I think, you know, having a landing page is great if you have a very specific goal in mind. Um, you know, I want to offer this this resource, um, five ways toe to apply to, You know, maybe you help low income people, families or individuals, you know, get a job or whatever at my career Resource is

[00:17:48.76] spk_1:
or sign a petition or something.

[00:18:29.50] spk_0:
Yeah, sign a petition, Right. So So you have a landing page specific for that goal. It could be great. Also, just to send for people to your website, your general website, as long as there’s an easy way for them to take the next step whether that stopped in or call you or whatever it is, The main thing to consider there is I want a match. The page that I sent people to to the key where they searched as closely as I can. The more relevant, um, you know, if they’re searching for, ah, something related to, um, you know, gruel, you know, hygiene kit for homeless. You know, you wanna you want to make sure that we’re, you know, as close as you can you match. So if you just send them to your home page website, that’s a very generic place to send them. So if you have a block post addressing that specific question, that’s a great place to send them.

[00:18:50.14] spk_1:
Okay? And this all goes back to your goal. Exactly. Go is donor acquisition? Then they should get to an information page. That’s gonna Or maybe maybe they should just be right that the donation page. I don’t know what that

[00:18:54.01] spk_0:
donation page can work. A ZX long as your donation page has videos and things that will get people excited.

[00:19:22.00] spk_1:
Okay, They need a little bit more information that quite radio give you the credit card number. Yes. But you also don’t want them wandering around reading block posts. Yes. You distracted by the petition, et cetera, when you know that they searched for, you know, giving or you’re confident that whatever brought them in, they are in the mind of donating.

[00:19:25.65] spk_0:
Yeah, Yeah, you’re a ghoul Cares about relevance. And that that the relevance is what you’re abscess and how relevant are at is to the what they searched. And then the page two and goodwill measures that by

[00:19:36.84] spk_1:
oh ho hos that Google knows that your head sends people do. And they

[00:19:41.46] spk_0:
well, they know how long people stand the page. If you have Google analytics on the site, they know that. And so the longer people stay, that’s a better user experience,

[00:20:03.74] spk_1:
right? All right, maybe this is maybe this is obvious, but I’m trainable. So Google Analytics works both ways. It gives you gives you data, but it also gives feedback toe Google. Okay.

[00:20:04.52] spk_0:
And I mean, maybe

[00:20:09.91] spk_1:
that maybe that’s commonly known among Google analytics users. All right, I didn’t know that. Yeah. Let your surrendering data as well as retrieving it for yourself.

[00:21:03.91] spk_0:
Yeah, well, it’s It’s so that, you know, because if your users are having a good experience, Google will show your ads will give you give you more ad impressions because people are having a date. They won’t care about what the user experiences when they click on your ad and stuff. And so, you know, give him a good experience. If they take that, they convert. Maybe they don’t spend a lot of time on your site, but they convert. They give you guys a call or fill in a form, and that’s what you said as one of your goals. Google. You know, that gets measured into your at, um at data and Google says, Okay, we’ll show your adds more often, or, um, you know, you know how Google as is it is an auction. Well, will be it higher for this ad to show on these keywords because people tend to convert, and that’s a good experience with user. So we’re gonna make sure your ad gets shown because people are converting.

[00:21:05.74] spk_1:
Okay, Okay, is excellent advice. What else? For using this grant money.

[00:21:43.44] spk_0:
Um, if you can focus on traffic first, um, it you don’t want to ignore conversions and ignore getting people to take the next step. But higher traffic, the higher traffic you have the more of that grant or spending that it’s faster and easier to to test what? You know that conversion. Maybe you’re trying to get donors. And, you know, if you’re getting 100 people to your site, um, that’s gonna take a lot longer than if you get 1000 people to your site to figure out OK, people are really responding to this video. Are there? Are there are they’re signing up for our list or they’re donating.

[00:21:46.44] spk_1:
It’s a matter of more validity in a larger sample size. Exactly. You could drop more conclusions from 1000 people than you can from a population of 100

[00:23:20.50] spk_0:
yet, And so to get more traffic, um, I mean they’re number ways, but one of the best things you can do is to, um, add, keep adding he works, and because it’s at grants. They don’t have to be the perfect keywords that, um, are are your absolute ideal donors. They could be people who are searching for kind of related topics that they’re still, you know, related to what you do. And, um, you can, you know, get people further, further away from the final, you know, instead of the very most qualified people. So adding keywords and then another good practice is along with that, um, when you organize your campaign, people typically take a pool of keywords, say, 20 keywords, and then they create and their related to each other. And then they create one app for those keywords. Um, because they’re fairly related keywords. And I recommend using single theme or single keyword ad groups where you each at each keyword has a unique first headline. So you work. That ad is close to that. This is the key word s possible, or Hubert phrase. Or maybe you have just three or four different keywords cubits radio phrases for at so just having much smaller groups because that makes sure that the ad the first headline that people see and your ad is as close to what they actually search.

[00:23:23.58] spk_1:
Can you give an example of that?

[00:24:55.04] spk_0:
Yeah. Um, so if someone searches for it, got using this example that I mentioned before of parenting resources. If someone searches for, ah, three years, three year old tantrum, Um, the standard philosophy might be three year old tan drum, five year old tantrum child hand drum. You haven’t ad about tantrums with single keyword or single theme at groups. You instead say, three year old tantrum as the headline, and then you have a different at for five year old tantrum because it matches exactly what the person searched. Um, you don’t necessarily have to get back granular by creating that many different, unique first headlines, but you can try to make it as narrow as possible. Um, and that way, people, because here’s another best practice or way to think about Google ads as opposed to like Facebook or another kind of ad platform. It’s not about like having the ideal branded like emotional trigger that really draws people in. People do a Google search, and they look at the search results and then make a split second decision. Um, and it and you really just want to make show people. I understand your intent and I match what you’re thinking. And so the relevance that could match of the key word just getting that is as close as possible is what helps ensure that you can have a really high number of people who are clicking on your abs.

[00:25:07.34] spk_1:
Do you have a three year old?

[00:25:09.34] spk_0:
I’m a four year old.

[00:25:21.34] spk_1:
So you’ve been to you’ve been down a three year old a few times. Eso eso alright, don’t told aggression. What’s your top top top tip for three year old tantrums?

[00:25:56.04] spk_0:
Um, you’ve got Teoh. Do you show show empathy. You gotta show You have to show empathy on and telling a while that is Are you are feeling really mad about that and validate a feeling, Um, and you have to you have to be calm yourself. You have to. Sometimes you have to step away and calling yourself first. That’s probably the most important thing. And then you can show empathy and how you are feeling something really strong and back. Tens toe helped start just yet.

[00:25:56.93] spk_1:
Okay, because your your father expert as well you have six Children.

[00:26:00.40] spk_0:
I have a lot of a lot. You know, what I found is more kits I’ve had, you know, other more. I need to work.

[00:26:20.70] spk_1:
Well, yeah, OK, but there are people with one or two. You could learn a lot from a guy. Time six. So All right. Um, thank you. Topping up three year old tension, Right? So, yes, you gotta deescalate yourself. You got to take a deep yourself, then. All right, then show your empathy. You got to get yourself under control.

[00:26:25.28] spk_0:
That’s right. Yeah. If you if you’re not safe in terms of just your if your flight or flight is going off, If you’re feeling really stressed out, it’s gonna come through and how you address it. Um, that’s really how I feel. Like that’s half the battle. You can calm yourself down. You’ll be able that manage the rest.

[00:26:43.84] spk_1:
OK? All right. We still got a couple minutes left, so don’t hold out.

[00:27:13.74] spk_0:
S o. One interesting thing about adds to with Google is, um, low. The lowest common denominator. Um, with the ad itself is good, like, unfortunately, but it’s it’s just a fact like your would have your ad written at a level that third grader lower. Okay. Use really simple words. Use you. So, you know, um, you’re not trying to sound really sophisticated, because again, people aren’t reading things in death

[00:27:34.54] spk_1:
way. Think about our own behavior. And a The page of Google Search results were scanning. We’re looking for the the most closely related to what we want, and we’re grabbing it. So you do have to keep it simple.

[00:28:23.54] spk_0:
That’s right. Um, another thing that’s kind of worth trying is, um, Google Ghoul really wants to keep growing their use of machine learning and ai ai, and they have two kinds of ads that take advantage of that. There’s one kind of ad called Responsive, sir. Chats R S A. This is where you write headlines and descriptions and then Google intelligible. You mix and match and find what works best. I think this is a great advocate, great kind of way to do it because you control what and says, but Google decides what it shows instead of you writing. You know, I’m Here’s the first headline. Here’s a second and buying Here’s the description. I want you to show this exact thing. You just give it. Here’s your toolbox and you find what works best?

[00:28:27.32] spk_1:
Oh, really? And then Google chooses

[00:29:04.74] spk_0:
you. Go chooses, Um, and then another one, which is, um, has its It’s worth trying. It can work well. It can also work really merely and poorly. Um, and it’s getting It’s getting better. It’s called dynamic search Jets, and basically you just set up a campaign that’s the dynamics or Jack campaign. And Google scans your website, and it does everything. When someone does a keyword search, it picks the landing page. It writes the ad and shows the ad. So it it does the whole of

[00:29:06.75] spk_1:
your surrendering, your surrendering, training, everything. So what do you What do you give it to chips from?

[00:29:15.11] spk_0:
Um, your website? Okay, that’s it.

[00:29:16.19] spk_1:
Falls, That’s That’s this Ball Z.

[00:29:17.78] spk_0:
Yeah, so I mean,

[00:29:19.19] spk_5:
you can experiment. You can

[00:29:34.38] spk_0:
experiment, you can absolutely experiment. And, um, you know, sometimes that Google rights and add that really isn’t so good. But it does a pretty good job of matching the page that they send people to to the terms that they searched because that’s what Google does best.

[00:29:37.93] spk_1:
All right, now that was dynamic search ads. What’s the What’s the R s a

[00:30:56.74] spk_0:
responsive search at. Okay. Okay, um, and then another thing, no matter what your goal is, you really need to have you have in mind follow up. Um, especially with donors you need tohave, you know, email marketing, or have something in plant but in place where you can continue to reach out to people. Um, if you’re serving clientele, um, you know, maybe people aren’t ready to come in, like if there, if they need to make an appointment with you or our work with you directly. One on one. Maybe people searching on Google aren’t ready to do that, but so instead, you offer a non online resource where they get it for free, and then you follow up with him via email and address some other questions they might have and encourage them that now you can come in and take advantage of our service is our or whatever. It might be our you know, if it’s a petition like okay, you’re not ready to sign the petition. Here’s some questions to Beacon thinking about, you know, and along this issue care clearly you care about this issue, and so then you can follow up with them with with over email. Exactly. Now, when you consider how we asked questions why you consider signing the petition? So that’s a, um, another really important factor. And that’s actually, um, you know,

[00:30:57.39] spk_1:
plan. You don’t have a

[00:30:58.23] spk_0:
follow up, Ellen. And it’s also another factor in whether this is the right program for you. If you don’t have the resources to be able to follow up, especially if you’re trying to get you want donors from Google ads, then it’s probably not the right program for you right now. You can’t do the follow up.

[00:31:18.10] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So, uh, I certainly don’t wanna leave it on the negative. No right program for you if you can’t follow up. So leave us with ah, motivation.

[00:32:04.44] spk_0:
Yeah, well, I mean Google ad grants once you get it set up. Um, you know, if you’re just trying to do it yourself, I would say you could get it done in one of two hours per week of maintenance. And you can definitely see thousands of new visitors to your site. Hundreds of new people signing up for your email list. Um and ah, you know it. It’s like I said at the beginning. It is one of the neatest programs in terms of from on profits, because you can no, upfront. Is this gonna be something we should try And where are we going to get it? And you don’t have to take the risk of putting all the effort into applying. And then, you know, like most rants, you’re you’re lucky if you win it.

[00:32:10.04] spk_1:
Okay? I thought of another thing that I should have asked. You tell a story. Tell a good tele good at grand story.

[00:33:11.24] spk_0:
Okay, so I’m there was, ah, a lot of of nonprofits experience. They signed up for ad grants at one point, and then it didn’t go anywhere. Um, and I had a client like this, and they, um they had tried it, paid someone a lot of money, and it gotten in, but And that didn’t do anything. And ah asked me to take it over, and I just I was just trying to help them out. And I, um no volunteer my time for a little while with them and got got got things going cause I want They said, Let’s prove this out. If we can see that this is gonna be worth our while. We be happy that to hire you long term. Well, after six months, we were spending the entire $10,000. They were getting a few 100 use of strivers per month. And, uh, yeah, so it’s That was definitely an ink encouraging, uh, story.

[00:33:19.14] spk_1:
OK, yeah. A couple 100 new, quite newly acquired donors. That’s all right. He’s Chris Barlow at B line. Underscore Chris the company again. Beeline dot marketing Thank you very much, Chris. Real pleasure. Thanks for sharing.

[00:33:27.16] spk_0:
Thank you, tony. Great to be on

[00:34:46.37] spk_2:
absolutely time for a break. Tony’s take two. I’ve got a free how to guide for you to get your planned giving program started. It’s time. It’s time you can do this. The download is unleash the game changing power of planned giving at your non profit. It’s my ideas for how to get your program started. You don’t have to spend a lot of money. You don’t need expertise on your board or on your staff. You’re not talking to donors about their deaths. This is not going to cannibalize your fundraising. All these misconceptions, myths around, planned giving. All right, so I bust all those, and I explained how to get your program started. Step by step. You can get the free download Very simple. You don’t have to go to a site. This is It’s amazing. It’s amazing what we can do. Just text guide guide to 565 to 5 and you will get yours. It’s that simple text guide to 565 to 5. And that is tony Steak, too. Now it’s time for Be a payment processing pro.

[00:36:01.83] spk_1:
Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC 2020 non profit Technology Conference. Our coverage of 20 NTC is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? 20. Got em a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial, I guess now are Christina Snore Lily Aiko and Marine Wall be off. Christina is director of digital fundraising at America. American Near East Refugee Aid On era, Lily is vice president of payments and online fundraising at every action, and Maureen is non profit digital strategist and coach at practical wisdom for non profit accidental techies. So if you were deliberate techie accident, if you stumbled in like so many. Is Marines the right person doctor? All right, um, your NTC session is resume or by knowing more, become a payment processing pro. Uh, really, Are we, uh, we getting screwed by our payment processing contracts?

[00:36:08.30] spk_0:
I don’t

[00:36:08.55] spk_3:
know that that’s the way I would phrase it exactly. But I do think that there’s a lot of folks who you know payments is not many people’s areas, expertise, understandably, and they don’t want it to be also understandably. But there’s a lot that I think folks are leaving on the table because they don’t know what questions to be asking. Um, the naturally what we’re trying to help people understand is how can they go in and ask the right questions and make the right choices so that their maximizing your fundraising

[00:36:50.43] spk_1:
Okay, so you know what? What’s possible to put on the table that looks like it may looks non negotiable from the contract that you’re reading. Okay, there are things we can talk about. OK, um so now, um, yeah, really. Your vice president of payments that I haven’t seen that in a title before. I know it’s not your full title payments and online fundraising, but, uh, you does your organization, um is every action spending a lot of money on payments or

[00:37:08.13] spk_3:
Yeah, so explain kind of what that means. So I work on our product team, so I help figure out what new things we want to build into our software. So where us? A software provider for non profits for fundraising in a number of other things. And I focus on our fundraising, uh, products and specifically the kind of nitty gritty of how contributions are processed as part of a nonprofit fundraising. How do we make sure that as many contributions as possible are being processing process successfully? Eso that’s kind of my area of expertise, both in the product in just kind of in our business. More generally, how do we help make sure that clients are taking advantage? Everything can there.

[00:37:45.96] spk_1:
I see. Okay, Christina, what is your relationship with payment processing?

[00:37:51.61] spk_5:
So I kind of oversee our database, so just making sure that all of that is set up and working with their finance team. Um, you know, since I’m also manage all of our online donation for him, So it’s important that we, you know, have that set up correctly so everything can come through smoothly.

[00:38:13.42] spk_1:
Okay. Thank you. And, uh, Marine, what’s your What’s your role around? Payment processing. Are you Are you Are you like the holistic counselor for people who are frustrated by their by their lousy contracts?

[00:38:26.32] spk_4:
Um, I make sure So So this session actually came out of, Ah, Facebook Live that Lily and I did last summer on my facebook page because people, when they’re looking at new systems, especially CIA, rams or databases that have some type of transactional functionality is part of the system. They often don’t know what they should be looking for. Can they move to a new system and keep their existing processor? Where can they look for glossary of terms? So Christina happened to be one of my my clients and moved into every action and part of what we did together was she just said, make sure that the finance team was participating because some stuff is is not going to be part of Christina’s purview, you know, deciding and signing contracts and things for processors. The other thing that we’re finding comes up a lot is peanut types. People want to be able to offer Apple pay or Google wallet or Bitcoin. And how does a non profit accidental techie or fundraiser kind of navigate those waters most of the time? Folks on the ground or doing fundraising really don’t understand. And I certainly didn’t. What happens once a donor puts their pardon? You know, we know that everybody takes a little bites, but really, what happens? What is the non profit themselves responsible for? What’s the process of responsible for what’s the tool provider responsible for? And that’s why we wanted to submit this session to NTC this year. Teoh clear some of that up. What’s the ownership? How does it all work? And how do I take control of my pieces if I’m working exciting organization.

[00:40:29.49] spk_1:
Okay, Maureen, since have, uh, hosted something on exactly on this. You and Lily. I’m gonna deputize you as co host of this episode because it’s so you know, it’s so niche. And I don’t wanna want to focus on the wrong area. You know, I keep saying contracts or crummy, but maybe I’m over over overemphasizing that part of it. So, um, you know, I’m not giving you carte blanche about believing leading but ah, deputized you get the idea. So, Dio where where should we start with this? But I

[00:40:54.78] spk_4:
think I’ve loved going on that we talked a little bit about, you know, some of the some of the terminology. And in my favorite phrase, lily that I learned from you that I’d love to have you talk about today is meat or beach. The the rates. So I’m not gonna be tony, because I could never be tony. But But it would be great for you to just share a little bit about the didactic ce that we were hoping to present

[00:41:23.16] spk_1:
our tactics. That’s a big word. Or see, I would never use that on. Believe me, you don’t want to be tony. It’s no place to be. Um, all

[00:41:32.28] spk_4:
right, how about definition of terms? How about that?

[00:41:35.31] spk_1:
Okay. No, didactic is wonderful. No, um, the only thing we have to bear in mind is we’re doing this in about 25 minutes. Okay? Roughly. Okay. Please go ahead. Really

[00:44:37.04] spk_3:
great. Yeah. So I think I think that’s a great point, Maureen. And I think this is often, you know, one of the first places where nonprofits run into questions on dhe feel a little bit stuck is when they’re talking to potential vendors. Often you’re talking Teoh, a digital tools provider or digital C R M. And and that’s where the payments piece of the conversation comes up is OK. What what payment provider you’re going to use with your online contribution forms may be your A digital vendor has a payment provider they work with. Maybe they have an insurer. Maybe they have, like an in house team it provider that they kind of built, and that’s that’s their offering. Maybe there’s a whole bunch of different processors that you can integrate with, Um, and I think that’s often a non profits first. Start running into these questions, and it’s hard to understand sort of the different the different pieces that you need lined up to make sure you can successfully profit contributions online alone with, You know, obviously the vendor that’s providing you’re helping you build your online contribution forms. You need a merchant account. Eso you’re gonna need a merchant account provider, which is a vendor that helps that will set up that account for you, into which you can accept donors purchase or donations online. Um, money from that merchant count will go right into your normal bank account, but it always has to a first into a merchant account that’s just sort of part of online credit card processing. That merchant account also needs a payment gateway, and this is again where it can get a little confusing For some nonprofits. Many providers can be both your payment gateway it and you’re merchant account provider. But some are not some vendors or just a payment gateway or just a merchant account provider on nothing that you know your digital tools better should be able to help you navigate that conversation. They should be able to tell you what your options are there and help you understand what you know, what accounts you might need to go out and get and help set up that conversation for you and then that merchant account and that being the gateway or at the end of the day, gonna be connecting to a payment processor. That’s the service that actually accepts the transaction, authorizes it with the credit card provider and provides a response to you and again that could be yet another vendor or it can be a part of one of those other kind of two pieces that I already mention the team, a gateway in the merchant account that’s more in the weeds than nonprofits typically need to get. Usually again, you can go to a digital service is provider like every action that can help. You kind of figure out which of those pieces you need to worry about. But those are just some terms that are often gonna come up, and it can be a little bit confusing in those initial conversations. Um, and all of those tie into the pricing fact. Ah, factor here because obviously it’s a boring allude to kind of the more vendors you have in the chain of your payment processing. Each one of those vendors is taking their own piece of every transaction. So the more vendors that you have there, but the more you have to kind of think about that and make sure you understand what fees are being taken out of each point. So again, the more you can kind of work with one provider, and they can just give you one clear fee that ties everything together. It makes it a little bit easier for you to understand what you’re actually letting from those contributions. At the end of the day,

[00:45:06.89] spk_1:
I’ve been binge watching The Sopranos, and they would call that the the big That’s right. Every three, every different level level of vendor gets, gets their big

[00:45:12.68] spk_3:
Exactly. Yeah, that’s pretty much pretty much for payment. Processing is. Unfortunately, it’s, you know, there’s one transaction and there’s just lots of little pieces that get split out to lots of different people.

[00:45:22.94] spk_1:
All right, hopefully the consequences of not quite as grave sopranos if you don’t pay your

[00:45:27.63] spk_3:
yes, hopefully,

[00:45:31.09] spk_1:
um, all right, so, Marine, please jump in. Well,

[00:45:35.75] spk_4:
one of the things

[00:45:36.69] spk_1:
that our definition of time one of

[00:45:38.71] spk_4:
the places that this gets rial for non profits, and I know it got real for Christina was, if you’ve got sustaining donors, so let’s say you’re using a system that is connected to your online fundraising system. It’s one tool, and so you’ve got You’ve built up these monthly donors for years, right? We’ve all really worked hard to get our sustainer programs up and running and healthy, but when you move, those transactions need to go somewhere and continue to be processed if you stopped. And you said, Hey, all my monthly sustainer is I want you to go sign up again on my new donation form. You could lose up to 75 or higher percent of those monthly gifts. So you’re sort of starting that program over again? Christina needed to spend quite a bit of time thinking about this in her move. So I love to hear Cristina tell her sustain sustainer story.

[00:47:26.14] spk_5:
Sure. So we actually did have our sustain er’s spread out. Unfortunately, since our program is pretty established, this happened. Unfortunately, before I, um, started working at it Neera. But we had it in them in three different places, um, two of which were easily migrate herbal, and one of which we had Teoh speak with the donors, and it was only about 40 people. So it wasn’t so bad out of our, like, 500 plus, um, monthly donors. So we had to tell them Hey, we’re moving up opportunities system, and unfortunately, we can’t migrate you over there, so we’re gonna have to cancel your gift, and will you please restart? So, um, it was a little frustrating trying to get in touch with all of all three of those and figure out how to do that. But, um, in the end, we got it done, and it was It was fine. And it was much easier than having people start and restart.

[00:47:34.48] spk_1:
Did you? Did you find a lot of attrition?

[00:47:39.78] spk_5:
Um, it wasn’t so bad. Yeah, it was okay.

[00:47:42.85] spk_1:
All right. It wasn’t the 75 or more percent that Maureen said is possible,

[00:48:21.03] spk_5:
right? I think because the majority of ours were in a system that were easily able Teoh migrate from one Teoh the other, We didn’t really have any problems. And we had previously a credit card up of data, um, with them. So those credit cards were ready, ready to go, and we had no problem moving them over. There were a couple, I want to say a handful of people with a CH monthly donations and those are easy enough to move over as well because those never expire. Um, that’s

[00:48:21.86] spk_1:
coming from their bank accounts, right?

[00:48:35.21] spk_5:
Right. Yes. Sorry, but I think there’s a lot of those 40 people are 47 people that we had Teoh to worry about, and I think where we were able to get a little over half of them to restart their gifts, so we were really happy about that.

[00:48:38.46] spk_4:
But everybody else, the lion share kind of got somebody came in with very protective gloves on, kind of, because that’s that’s data that the non profit doesn’t want. You know they don’t want to store the credit card. They don’t want to store this the, um, the Cvv, because that’s banking information and no non profit anywhere, I think, has the security in place that they need to actually keep that locked down. So that’s where Lily and her team kind of came in and helped to facilitate the transfer of that protected data from where it waas in Christina’s legacy system into the new the new database.

[00:49:56.97] spk_2:
Time for our last break turn to communications relationships. The world runs on them. We all know this. If you’re a fundraiser, you especially know it turn to is led by former journalists so that you’ll get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you’d like to be heard so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field. They specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo. We’ve got but loads more time for be a payment processing pro.

[00:50:54.64] spk_3:
This is a definitely an area where I would encourage people to actually dig in a little bit more on that payment processor contract, because it’s really important that you make sure that you own your data, especially when it comes to sustain Er’s. And it’s as boring said. You don’t want to be storing that data. You don’t want to be storing the credit card numbers because there’s a lot of security PC I compliance concerns that come along with that. But you do want to make sure that at the end of the day, if you walk away from a vendor Onda payments provider that you can take that deal with you. And we say that data, really, what we’re meaning by that is the credit card tokens. So it’s the secure token that represents the credit card number, and as long as you have in your contract that you own that data, you should be able to work with your current under. If you ever are transitioning off of them to have them securely, send that data to your new vendor, your new payment provider, and they will re token, eyes it into another secure soak in that lives in their system and can then be charged to your new vendor. So that’s kind of the process of migrating sustainer is over. And so it’s really important that you make sure that at the end of the day, you are the one that owns that data. Obviously, it can still be a little bit of pulling teeth to get the thunder that you’re leaving to feel incentivised to give it to you. But you want to make sure that you know that you have that

[00:51:25.46] spk_1:
right? So So that’s there’s terminology. There’s language should say language in the contract that will specify who owns. Is this organized data?

[00:51:27.92] spk_3:
Exactly, exactly. And that’s something again where if you’re depending on kind of a model that your digital tools provider has, they can often kind of answer that question for you because it’s often written into their contract with the femur provider that they partner with eso. It’s often not something that you know. The non profit themselves has to, you know, get out there. Ah, red pen and they go through the contract for. But it’s a question you want to make sure you’re asking.

[00:51:52.11] spk_1:
Okay, Lily, do you feel like this is something that a new organization should have an attorney review? These different agreements? Or is that is that you don’t think is necessary?

[00:52:46.15] spk_3:
I mean, I don’t ever want to say you shouldn’t have been assured the review a contract before you sign it. Um, you know, I think I think again, this is where it depends a little bit on how much a non profit is going out and contracting for the service is on their own versus how much they’re going through a provider. If you know, for example, if you’re working with a digital vendor that kind of handles payments in a house, this would likely be part of your contract with vendor, as opposed to a contract with an external payment provider. A lot of digital vendors don’t handle humans and house, but then partner with someone who does, and so they can kind of help you through that process a little bit. But is it a best practice, you know, Probably have having attorney. Look at it. I would say, Yeah, it was saying this.

[00:52:58.15] spk_1:
Any advice on how we know whether the fees that were being charged are within a normal range?

[00:53:00.91] spk_3:
Yeah, that is a great question. Um, so

[00:53:04.07] spk_1:
we’ve got a good morning. Okay? Medicine. All right.

[00:55:41.12] spk_3:
Um, yes. So the first thing I would say about pricing and is that there are different models. There’s kind of three main models that you’re going to see when it comes to payment processing fees. So the first is a flat rate. This is the easiest for anyone to understand. It is We’re gonna get charged X person and X number of sense on every transaction, no matter what. That’s obviously you know, it’s it’s very straightforward. It’s easy to calculate that, um, there’s also gonna be a tiered pricing model. And a tier pricing model is meant to kind of take into account the fact that different transactions do have different fees associated with them. Um, so when a human is processed online, uh, the credit card fees are gonna vary and a very pretty significantly, depending on a number of factors. Eso There’s what’s called interchange interchanges. Basically, the combination of fees that credit card companies charge there’s they’re gonna very depending on the credit card provider they’re gonna do very depending on the type of card. For example, rewards cards have a very big effect on processing fees. It’s actually why a lot of folks have seen their processing fees go up is because is more and more and more of us have rewards cards. Those usually incur higher processing fee. So this this kind of why instead of seas and it’s hundreds of different categories for disease, it makes up what’s called interchange. And so the tiered pricing model is usually mention to kind of it. To account for that, it’ll usually mean that there’s, you know, maybe three buckets or so where the femur provider has kind of taken every possible interchange, price and category, and it’s put it in one of these three buckets, and they charge a different rate. Based on that, it’s still not exactly what the credit card company is charging for that colored, but it it kind of balances that out more as opposed it a flat rate, which is just one number, and it’s sometimes the providers actually gonna be losing money on that transaction because they’ve had to pay more than that to the credit card company to charge it. In some cases, they’re gonna be making money on it. They just sort of, you know, they find what they think is a balancing between. Okay, and then the third model. It’s called Interchange Plus on. But that basically means is that your provider is just passing on those credit card company fees directly to you. And then they’re adding on some percentage for their own profit. That one. There’s a certain used to it and that you know exactly what you’re paying that provider. They’re not obscuring that profit for you. Um, but it’s also very hard to predict because obviously, again, interchange fees from the credit card companies very on every transaction. So you don’t You don’t know what you’re gonna pay on any transaction until it happens.

[00:56:14.48] spk_1:
Okay, Lily, if you ever leave every action, you have a niche consulting practice with payments transferrable to a private practice. Maureen, What else? What else? We

[00:56:22.53] spk_4:
way. I’d love to get Kristina to speak a little bit about those ranges and fees because you were using, as you said, a mix of different processors at a narrow before you major big move. And I think you saw awesome rial fluctuation between digital tool provider. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:48.13] spk_5:
So we were using 1/3 party, a peer to peer tool, um, whose prices were or their their fees were a lot higher than our main processor. So we definitely wanted to get away from that, Um, went looking at any system, and we also just wanted to find something. Of course, that was all of one. So we wouldn’t have to worry about having so many different processing fees for all these different types of tools. So, um, it’s another thing to consider to, um So, yeah. I mean, because we those 40 people that we had to cancel, they were kind of a mystery, and it took us a while to hunt them down. I don’t I’m not even sure what those processing fees were because they were just in there for so long and, like, had transferred over to, like, our old system. So, um, but yeah, I think I think what? You know, when we were looking for a new system, we wanted to find something because we were happy with our current processing fees. And so we wanted again something that either you know, meter beat, type of thing that we were saying before. Um um, Plus, you know, what are the things that you really like? Like the credit card update? Our was something we had to have. And then we also you did something that offered different pain and types as well. So, like, apple pay pay, pal, You know all the major credit cards. Um, so, yeah, that was that was an important thing for us.

[00:59:13.53] spk_3:
And that’s a really great point that you bring up to. Is that all those kind of additional things that you’re talking about? The other payment types, credit card update or card account update? Er, those often comes with visas. Well, they may be monthly, set up fees, then maybe per transaction fees. But they made very a ch, for example, different feed and credit cards. Typically. So those are all kind of questions you wanna ask when you think about you know, what are the must have features when it comes to my own life fund raising and my peanut processing? Make a list of those and then go talk to every vendor that you’re talking to and find out what the fees are for those because it’s really easy for blunders, especially on the reason that flat rate model you just hear what number and you’re like, Great, that’s that’s in the range I want to be in like I’m good and it’s it’s easy to like, not realize kind of all these other things that may seek in there. So it’s good to kind of get that get together. A list of questions when asked the same questions of every 100 it might be talking to, um, and there’s a fair amount you confined, you know, even honestly, just doing a quick Google search for some of the processors that you may know of names that you’ve heard in the past or vendors that you’ve worked with. You can often see some pricing information right on their site. It’s not necessarily gonna tell you everything, but if you’re just kind of looking for a ballpark, that could be helpful as well. And non profit should also know that some writers are able to give them discounted rates as non profit. So that’s always you should ask.

[01:00:41.14] spk_4:
Yeah, I think this is one of those those places where nobody owns it inside an organization, you know? Does your CFO or your accounts payable person own it? Does your operations person own it? Just someone like Christina was managing all the digital fundraising. Own it. Um, So the first step, whether you’re moving or not, is to kind of huddle eternally and tap someone to be the person who’s going to own this, learn about it and kind of Carrie Carrie. Things forward, re negotiate or influence rates when you’re when you’re moving. There’s just a lot of people switching systems. Right now, there’s a ton of different products on the market, and this is one of those things that you think you know. Like Lily says. You ask your questions, you check all your boxes and then six months in. You have this horrible discovery because I’ve raised X, but only why has hit my bank account. And now what do I dio? So it’s It’s a good thing to pay attention to, even if you don’t quite know what to ask, you’re not quite sure how to go about it. At least start the conversation internally, and then you’re a little bit more empowered to go talk with your your payment processor or your tool provider.

[01:01:16.49] spk_5:
I know another thing for us was the ability to process international donations as well. So, having knowing what they’re, um, what kind of security measures they take to for that as well, and then like, how easy is it for people to donate, if their overseas, whether they’re, you know, us people traveling overseas or residents or citizens that are living in other countries,

[01:01:18.84] spk_3:
I think a great way to think about it is kind of like inventory, what your current system is doing and what you’re program looks like today and then think about where do we want to grow our program? Where do we want for him to be in a year or two years? And, you know, maybe I talked to a lot of people, for example, who they want to get more into international fund raising. They’re not doing it now, but it’s a goal. What? That’s a goal. You should make sure that you’re thinking about that. When you switch to a new vendor or payment provider. Make sure that’s making supports that as you grow your organization you could help meet those goals and that you’re working with a provider that can help you do that.

[01:01:55.71] spk_1:
Right, Marine? Uh, you think Anything else pressing?

[01:01:57.98] spk_4:
I feel like we without getting into the super Weeds, E I think we’re there. I think we got it.

[01:02:34.60] spk_1:
Okay, then, uh, we’re gonna wrap it up there. All right? Thank you. Thanks. Thanks to all three of you. And I know you reach well and safe in your own locations. I’m very glad of that. I’m glad we were able to get together. Um, it’s Christina Snore, director of digital fundraising for American Near East Refugee Aid a nera Billy I, co vice president of payments and online fundraising and future payment processing consultant. Uh, she’s currently remaining at every action. Is

[01:02:40.48] spk_3:
a guest as CEO. Something that,

[01:02:42.44] spk_1:
um, and Marine will be off non profit digital strategist and technology coach. Practical wisdom for non profit accidental techies. Marine, this was unprecedented that I had a co host in any show. Um, I don’t know exactly. Well, we’re and I do know exactly I’m like your 480 or so 500 is coming up in July. I’ve been doing this 10 years never had a co host.

[01:03:04.64] spk_4:
I am honored. I’m

[01:03:06.80] spk_1:
absolutely I knew I could trust you from from your contribution first, The first session yesterday. So but don’t get carried away. Don’t come back.

[01:03:15.05] spk_4:
I won’t let it go to my head. And

[01:03:17.04] spk_1:
you know weekly. Not quarterly. Not semiannual. Carried away. All right.

[01:03:22.01] spk_4:
Sounds good. Alright,

[01:03:23.96] spk_1:
Thanks, Teoh. Thank you. Especially Maureen. Thanks to all three of you

[01:03:47.20] spk_2:
next week, let’s have more 20 and TC smartness. If you missed any part of today’s show you know what I beseech you Find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and by turned to communications, PR and content for non profits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo.

[01:04:16.02] spk_1:
Our creative producer is clear. Meyer shows social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy. And this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn with me next week for not profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great