Tag Archives: Google Ad Grants

Nonprofit Radio for November 29, 2021: How Much To Spend On Ads In 2022

My Guest:

George Weiner: How Much To Spend On Ads In 2022

“The Nonprofit Advertising Benchmark Study” will help you decide what’s the right amount for you to spend on advertising if you want to be comparable to your peers. At the very least, it’s a place to start your research on ad spending. George Weiner explains the study. He’s chief whaler at Whole Whale. Does that make him the Captain Ahab of nonprofit tech? Listen to find out.


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[00:02:18.04] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with odo toxicity if I heard that you missed this week’s show How much to spend on ads. In 2022, the nonprofit advertising benchmark study, we’ll help you decide what’s the right amount for you to spend on advertising if you want to be comparable to your peers at the very least, it’s a place to start your research on ad spending George winner explains the study. He’s chief whaler at whole whale. Does that make him the captain ahab of nonprofit tech. Let’s find out on tony state too. It’s the holidays and fourth quarter sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. It’s a pleasure to welcome George winner to nonprofit radio He is the chief whaler of whole whale, a digital agency that leverages data and tech to increase the impact of nonprofits and for benefit companies. He’s also a co founder of power poetry, the largest teen poetry platform in the US A safe creative free home to over 500,000 poets. George was chief technology officer of do something dot org. He managed the site overhaul twice. Winning a webby award and helped build a community of over a million and a half young people taking action. He’s an evangelist for democratized data and measuring success. The company is at whole whale dot com and at whole whale. Welcome chief whaler. How are you George

[00:02:21.24] spk_0:
wow, incredible intro. Thank you so much. tony Thanks for having having me on

[00:02:26.63] spk_1:
my pleasure, my pleasure. What’s what’s behind the company name? Whole whale which which leads you to be whole whaler. What’s that about?

[00:03:23.44] spk_0:
Yeah, we found it a decade ago and at the time the thought that struck me was ultimately the way that the nan, you know the Nantucket whalers in the massachusetts whalers in the 18 fifties would look at a whale and they would basically bring back lamp oil and throw the rest away in times of abundance. We tend to be a touch wasteful instead of using everything from the bluebird of the bone. And I took that lens and said, I felt like many social impact organizations weren’t looking at the opportunity to leverage data and technology and the rising web in that way. And they simply said, hey, hey, here’s the internet and the most powerful tool we’ve ever been given. Let’s put a donate button on it and call it a day. And so I kind of gave rise to how we view this time of abundance with an eye toward the best ways of leveraging data intact to increase the impact.

[00:03:57.64] spk_1:
Very interesting, very interesting. Uh you uh you drew that analogy between the two interesting. All right. Um, so are you the captain? Ahab, do you have a deep revenge? I’m trusting you know the story of Moby dick. Do you have anything deeply uh hurting you that you need revenge for? That’s going to drive the the ship of what was it the uh um The pick, watch the pick what it’s going to drive your whole whale peak watt into the ground.

[00:04:11.14] spk_0:
I’ve got a few white whales. Maybe I chase, you know, I got a few white whales maybe that I chase. Yeah. The other reason I found it all whales. Because of the nautical puns. I mean, you’re virtually swimming in them anywhere you turn and with regard to the things that chase, you know, the nonprofit ad study is one, but we like we go after interesting projects along the way. In addition to our our day to day work as consultants. We also develop products and try to put things out there in the ecosystem that help others do their jobs better. Or learn more about whatever field they’re wandering and so I can get distracted by a white whale or two.

[00:04:48.64] spk_1:
Okay, I see the navigate your helping folks navigate. Yes. The of course, the nautical you’re right. The uh nautical puns are are abundant.

[00:04:52.84] spk_0:
Yeah, they have to be they have to be

[00:05:05.44] spk_1:
navigate navigate the waters. All right. All right. So, we’ll see if your captain Ahab flush that out. See if you’ve hopefully you’re not going to do to uh to hold whale. What what the captain did too

[00:05:07.82] spk_0:
Made it 10 years so far. But I think that’s mainly because of an amazing team that basically just puts me in the right direction. Okay. It’s

[00:05:18.64] spk_1:
very gracious of you. All right. What is this this uh, nonprofit advertising benchmark study? What’s this thing all about?

[00:06:18.54] spk_0:
We wanted to answer a simple question and you know, never underestimate the power of a simple question because it can lead to, you know, a lot of, you know, threads essentially how much should a nonprofit spend on ads? This idea of advertising and promotion, it’s available technically informed nine nineties and with the help of cause I. Q. Which is a, you know, been a great partner in this. We analyzed seven over 7000 organizations to get that answer. And we chose organizations with a number of filters because clearly, you know, there’s 1.8 million nonprofits out there depending on how you’re sort of measuring the five oh one C threes and they’re like, oh that’s too many. And also, uh, you know, a third of them are not necessarily even over the threshold for reporting to the I. R. S. So we wanted to find 1 to 10 million in revenue organizations between one Million and 10 million and also met other certain criteria. And then we just sort of just, we dove in headfirst to to answer that question, how much should non profit spend on paid ads.

[00:06:36.34] spk_1:
Okay, so among your sample size of 7100 or so you you were you looked to see there’s I guess there’s a, there’s a line on the 9 90 that where folks where organizations report advertising expenses and that’s what, that’s what you were looking for,

[00:07:08.64] spk_0:
correct. It’s, you know, publicly disclosed because that’s, you know, the game and we look at that. So, you know, there are certain assumptions there that, you know, we note in the study of what that line is and what it isn’t. So it isn’t necessarily saying All right, this is the amount that people spent just on facebook ads or google ads. It’s advertising and promotion of the organization. So, you know, that could extend to people Paying for print ads. It could even in some cases, but we filtered it out for the most part include the cost paid to advertising firms to run ads. Uh, though many according to, I think the analysis, we didn’t hear only about like five or 10% in that range actually incorporated in there. And those are the outliers.

[00:07:43.14] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. And this specifically, thank you. Cause I was going to ask you about, you know, how, how we define advertising or how you define advertising this study and it specifically doesn’t include google ad grant money. Right? That’s, that’s different.

[00:07:58.84] spk_0:
Super important. Thanks for bringing that up. And it’s one of those sort of, you know, expert pieces there that it’s an in kind amount that doesn’t get reported on that line. Right? The google ad grants and you 10-K per month in money spent is something that would show up on your in kind value, not actual dollars out the door.

[00:09:03.04] spk_1:
Okay. Right. So it’s captured elsewhere. So it’s not part of the study here. Okay. Um, and so I was struck, you know, I’ve I’ve known that these that the vast majority of nonprofits are are smaller, you know, smaller revenue amounts. But I guess just reading it again, reminding me refreshing my recollection that uh, 93 a half percent of nonprofits are under $1 million dollars in revenue and and only 1.5% are over $10 million dollars in revenue. So that this this, you know, our universe of nonprofits, that this is not related to advertising, although, I mean, it is in terms of big words spend more on advertising, but that’s not my point. My point is just it just drives home that so many of our of our colleagues in nonprofits are organizations that are under $1 million dollars in revenue, 93 93 a half percent are under a million dollars, vast majority. Again.

[00:10:11.74] spk_0:
Yeah. And it’s important to note that, you know, because I think maybe in our minds or because of the narratives, we see large organizations and assume that they’re all like multimillion dollar, but like, this is the truth of it and that’s Yeah, that 1.44, exact five oh one c three nonprofit organizations and, you know, there’s a very, very small fraction of them that kind of live above that line, You know, like roughly speaking the same is kind of true in business ecosystems as well. You know, it’s hard to get to a million dollars. You realize that. But also when you look at the market how, how much of a long tail there really is. And we wanted to sort of remove that and say like once an organization has kind of, I mean not saying you’ve made it, but you were in rarer air, certainly after crossing $1 million you were running something that certainly has enough residents to to reach that level. And then we also filtered by age to be like, well, wait a minute. Maybe they’re like one night, you know, overnight successes or pieces like that. So we looked at organizations over under this century funded founded in uh, and and took a look at that as well. But it is, it is a curious point. We wanted to start with that context because I don’t think it’s given enough in the sense of nonprofit industry and you like immediately sort of have this availability heuristic meaning like I remember the last thing I saw and either it’s the red cross or you know, you know, pets down the corner saving one pet at a time.

[00:10:41.44] spk_1:
The availability heuristic. Thank you dropping that tech guy. You know, you have to, uh, well you, I’ll keep you out of jargon jail because you you explained it immediately

[00:10:47.03] spk_0:
go to

[00:10:51.64] spk_1:
The availability heuristic now it’s a good one. I love it. Uh huh. And you uh you flushed it out so folks understand what you’re talking about.

[00:10:56.23] spk_0:
I still will probably end up in jail though, won’t you

[00:11:10.64] spk_1:
didn’t do it? Well that could be we’ll see how we’ll see how the conversation goes. But you didn’t do it pretentious li like you know the all you would have available, all you, all you would have within your within your thinking at that point would be subject to the availability heuristic.

[00:11:13.34] spk_0:
Yeah. And then just leave it. Didn’t just leave it

[00:11:47.74] spk_1:
there and then make me ask and then make you flush it out. Which would have put you in jargon jail. So all right now because your availability heuristic. Thank you. This is a technology guy. Data data data guy, expect those things. I have a book like that. What’s that way out of this cool book from college. Alternative interpretations of data based conclusions. I think availability is in there. You know, uh confusing correlation and cause and effect. That’s a very common one. This is cool book. Can you show it to you

[00:11:50.24] spk_0:
what’s strong? I like that

[00:12:07.34] spk_1:
rival hypotheses. That’s what it is, rival hypothesis. Alternative interpretations of data basically. Okay, so enough pretense for now let’s talk about the study a little more. Yes. What stood out for you uh findings. What what what was most informative to you that and you think our listeners need to know?

[00:13:12.84] spk_0:
Yeah. The top line, I feel like we have that that cliffhanger is like how much should number I would spend. It’s like how much should we spend already? What’s the number? So I felt like we owed it to the audience to give them a number with a lot of asterisks and the number which is the median spend for our sample was basically $12,070. Which roughly equated to 5% of the median revenue as a as a ratio. So you know, knowing nothing else turning off the podcast right now you’re like, all right, we should be like at least considering that. and 60% of This sample, 60% were actually spending on ads or spending on advertising and promotion. I’m going to use that interchange of advertising and promotion and add but advertising activities 60% did and 40% did. Not. That actually surprised me. I actually really believe that there would be a lot more organizations spending. So you know that that was a bit of a surprise to me.

[00:13:16.87] spk_1:
Okay. Right. Not even not even 2/3

[00:13:20.04] spk_0:
are spot on your Yeah, exactly. Exactly on

[00:13:22.59] spk_1:
Advertising. Okay. And the median spend is 12,000 between friends. We can around the 70 away.

[00:13:29.35] spk_0:
So 12 spot me 70 12,000

[00:13:31.94] spk_1:
dollars. There you go. That’s that’s your

[00:13:34.30] spk_0:
feet for being option.

[00:13:48.14] spk_1:
Um uh And the average was, you know, it was interesting. The average was quite the average of like 4.2 million wasn’t the average was very highly skewed. Do you remember that? Right? It was it was something very huge.

[00:14:37.04] spk_0:
Oh yeah. I mean you had to throw out the average because of these outliers. There’s like these massive positive outliers and there’s some nonprofits out there that are spending quite significantly. And you know, you sort of begin to touch on lobbying. There’s like um, you know, there was a pro life America group up there and the millions of dollars and you know, that’s that’s not data that necessarily is going to help you, right. If Bill Gates suddenly walked into your boardroom, you’d all be average billionaires. Not helpful. Right. That that kind of insight is not helpful. So that’s why we chose the median. I’m sure it’s in your book of trying to avoid those mistakes. And you know, we we went through and tried to explain why we chose the numbers we did and also give access to the full data dashboard if people are interested in it.

[00:14:51.34] spk_1:
Alright, so, well, since you mentioned access to this, how do how do folks get the summary and I’ll be sure to say at the end, you can remind me if I don’t, how do you get the, get the, get the summary of the study.

[00:14:55.14] spk_0:
So it’s at a whole whale dot com slash advertising tried to make it pretty simple. We have a nice infographic there and the ability to download the entire report.

[00:15:05.74] spk_1:
Okay. And there’s a little fee there’s a $5 fee if you want if you want

[00:15:08.89] spk_0:
All this. So yeah the full data and dashboard if you want to go digging into it. Um and getting access to that. Yeah that’s the $5 fee. But you get the whole study which is you know 21, pages of awesome. That’s you know that’s available

[00:17:05.14] spk_1:
right? That’s free. That’s absolutely free. Okay. Hold well dot com slash advertising it’s time for a break. Turn to communications. Are you making your plans for 2022 for fundraising? Marketing communications. Do you need help Look at turn two? If you’re like if you’re thinking about fundraising you need to raise more money in 2022 marketing and communications. Your content, the stuff that goes out all that that you’re creating for your donors for general awareness. If you need help with it, think about turn to because that’s what they do. They have a background in non profits. They understand the nonprofit community so you’re not you’re not hiring an agency that only works with you know cos they understand the nonprofit space. They can help you develop your content, help you hone those messages, Get those messages out like you’ve been hearing me talk about, right? So if you need to raise more money or if you need to go to the next level in marketing communications In 2022, think about turn to because your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C o Now back to how much to spend on ads in 2022. uh, the, the 80 20 rule applies here is one of your, One of your takeaways that uh, the top 20% spend about 80% of the ad revenue. Yeah.

[00:17:06.54] spk_0:
It always seems to happen and I always seem surprised when I find that power law, right? The 80 20 shows up on like

[00:17:21.64] spk_1:
how again does it keep happening time after time after time for in a wide variety of applications, 80 20 applies. How is our world,

[00:17:57.74] spk_0:
especially in actually, especially in financial distribution. But I was actually, I did the analysis. I was like, it probably won’t in this case show and I was like, you gotta be kidding me. So it wasn’t exactly 80 20 it was 24 76. So that’s about 24% spent 80% of that ad spend coming back to your point on average is being like much higher than in a potential bit misleading. So you do have that handful of organization spending quite a bit and the top 13 organizations in our study spent over a million dollars. So you kind of see that heavy, heavy waiting. And if it’s like, all right, you know, the purpose of our organization is the public awareness of this particular issue. And the way we do it is just turned donations into advertising and they’re nonprofits that just do that And they skirt the line awful close to lobbying, but they stay this side of fair.

[00:19:23.04] spk_1:
Okay. All right. Um, and you know, it occurs to me to this is, um, you know, you’re stuck with a lackluster host who is, whose thinking is not, uh, completely linear at all times, uh, if ever on that. But, uh, this is not, this is not a survey. So we’re not, we don’t have biases across people giving what they think is a good answer. You know, we don’t have those. So that just goes back to my book, the rival hypotheses, you know, self reports, not self reported data. Um, you do have the problem, like you said, you had to correct for whether people use agencies to produce their ads, but you were able to sort that out. So there’s, there’s some potential differentiation in, in the way people report organizations report advertising on their 9 90. But overall this is more reliable than survey data.

[00:20:13.84] spk_0:
Yeah. And I’m glad you brought that up. This is, you know, reported. So, I mean if you get back down to it, Yes, there is a human somewhere in the financial department of this non profit making that decision, but they’re doing that at a very macro stage and we’re pulling raw data were not wandering in and saying, Hey, how much do you spend on ads and you know, looking at, You know, 250 random nonprofits that decided to randomly fill out a survey with limiting information or you know, not being wanted to be fully transparent for whatever reasons. This is you know, this is source data from the organization according to the I. R. S aggregated by cause I. Q. And then we analyzed it to really find those answers and it’s something that we just felt was lacking. We felt like there was a lot of uh, we’ll call it a qualitative As opposed to quantitative type of research out there being like, Oh, here’s the official number. And then you look at the fine print and realize it was the opinion of 60 people not problems. And I’m like, I don’t know

[00:20:33.14] spk_1:
a lot of the answer. A lot of times people say, well it depends, it depends. So you’ve drilled down more than it depends.

[00:20:58.94] spk_0:
We’ve drilled down more and also been able to look at individual cause areas. So not just lumping one of my, one of my watchwords is being careful of lumping together the entire industry into one tidy bucket and assuming they all behave the same way. And if you know one nonprofit, you know one non profit and so we actually have, you know, in one of our findings divided up The type and cause focus of the organization to kind of get a better idea in that distribution, which tells, you know, another different story, which is all the more to say. I, I hesitated but knew we dessert we we owed the audience an answer of $12,000. But even that can be misleading depending on the industry and sub industry weren’t

[00:21:34.94] spk_1:
well, like arts organizations for instance, spend the most right. That’s what you’re, you’re, you’re teasing us a little bit. But I don’t do that to nonprofit radio listeners. You can, you can attempt it, but I won’t allow it. So, uh, let’s, uh, so arts organizations spend the most on advertising, right?

[00:22:15.54] spk_0:
Organizations were the highest spender. Again, surprising to me because I actually thought it would be health, I thought would be the health industry spending, you know, more to research awareness and pieces like that. But you know, frankly at the end of the day, you need to get people to attend to show up to, you know, go to these, you know, one time events to museums on location and so these, these were the highest highest spenders for sure. And promoters of performing arts sports and similar events were at the top and then the lowest, you know, because you look at the high and low, we’re less surprisingly the grantmakers and giving services like if you’re giving grants, guess what people find Jack, If you’re writing checks, people, people

[00:22:42.04] spk_1:
find you events, you, you you, you teased out what ad spending does too event income and I’ll let you, I’ll let you reveal what was found.

[00:22:46.44] spk_0:
Yeah, this is a bit of a nothing burger on the face of it because I had, here’s a case where I went in with maybe a touch of an agenda. I had an agenda. I’m going to admit it that I thought if a nonprofit was spending research, going

[00:23:03.00] spk_1:
back to my book, researcher bias.

[00:23:38.74] spk_0:
Yeah, this was researcher bias. But I left it in because I was so surprised that the ad spend of a nonprofit did not correlate. Uh, mind you even causation that didn’t even correlate in any meaningful way to hire event income. So event income is another thing technically reported by non profits in the 990 that you can pull aggregate and analyze. I’ll put an asterisk there, there are problems with that reporting which may be impacted this. But ultimately there was no correlation at all with this idea that or eggs without ads and with ads had any meaningful difference in the amount raised with event fundraising.

[00:23:56.54] spk_1:
Okay, Alright. Clearly you had, you had a hypothesis because that’s why you pulled the event income Data off the 1990s.

[00:25:03.44] spk_0:
Yeah. I mean, my hope was to show like I had, I had to hope that we would show that guess what if you’re spending to promote your event, your event does better And therefore an aggregate. They should be the folks that are making more money, you know, when in fact, you know, the of our, I can give some context with the data size. Uh, about 68% of our group had listed event fundraising expenses and 58% of that group reporting event fundraising revenue from their form nine nineties. So right in there, you’re like, wait a minute. They didn’t all make money, nope, just events that happened. Right? So I think it’s important. Not all events have maybe the purpose of fundraising, but that’s where they get listed. There’s also the question of in the accounting department, did that gift of $100,000 that came in five days after the event? Did that go to the capital campaign or did that go to the fundraising event? There’s a lot of mushiness there. So, you know, I’ll blame it on the data, but I wanted to report it because it was something that sort of keep us honest moment.

[00:25:09.32] spk_1:
Yeah. Okay. But it’s valid. You reported as a finding. So

[00:25:13.12] spk_0:
like we. Did you believe it? Believe it. Ok.

[00:27:30.84] spk_1:
It’s time for Tony’s take two. It’s the holidays and it’s the fourth quarter. The holidays. I hope you enjoyed your thanksgiving time with family, friends. Time for yourself. These things are important. You’ve got to take time to rejuvenate yourself to relax however you you know what’s best for you, however you do that for yourself. However you relax. It might be some people, some people relax by, you know, adrenaline rushes and uh, you know, zip cordon however you relax. I hope you did it over thanksgiving and I hope you will continue it throughout the holiday season. We’re in the midst of Hanukkah right now christmas coming up whatever your holiday is. I hope that you will be good to yourself as well as of course your family, loved ones and friends that you’re getting together with and it is the fourth quarter. So there’s a lot of pressure. I know vast amounts of, of fundraising revenue come in, not only the fourth quarter, but even in just in december. I know. So I know you’ve got those pressures. What am I talking about? Balance, balance, take care of yourself so you can take care of your non profit Please do both please for the holiday season this year. That is Tony’s take two. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for How much to spend on ads in 2022, the older organizations, older organizations spend more then then I’m sorry older organizations spend, uh, less likely to spend. I was thinking of larger. I was thinking of size, not age, older organizations spend less. That that seems to make sense. There are, when we presume that older organizations have have greater, uh market awareness because they’ve been around longer.

[00:27:59.74] spk_0:
I guess the, I love this take away, this was actually, I have to give credit to Kobe on our team who ran the ranch and manage this analysis. He just, he was like, I would love to look at the date funded because the underlying hypothesis here is that older organizations that were incubated and created in a time frankly pre web 12. Oh, would see less value in their operating less value in paying to play in creating ads and creating advertising. Oh, that’s

[00:28:14.34] spk_1:
the hypo that you think that’s the car. They haven’t adapted to our digital ad environment.

[00:28:15.80] spk_0:
I mean it’s, we call the rising generation digital natives. Right? How much time do you spend on Tiktok? Like there’s, I think there’s a fundamental reality.

[00:28:24.88] spk_1:
I’ve never, I’ve never been there. But they can hire people, I don’t need, I can hire somebody to do Tiktok for me to watch you George. That’s so cynical about older organizations. But let’s all right.

[00:28:40.44] spk_0:
You’re right. Let’s, can we, we can tell them the numbers though. It wasn’t that massively off. I will always say that. Um, the,

[00:28:41.84] spk_1:
alright, let’s start with, what’s an older organization. How did you, how did you group or cluster or how did you define age?

[00:28:48.66] spk_0:
How did I unfairly categorize this poor lined group of nickel. They

[00:29:03.74] spk_1:
Are capable of even hiring people to do something post 1950. I mean these these folks are still watching black and white television and some of them are still listening to silent movies in your mind.

[00:29:07.04] spk_0:
Uh, that side, the set with this century. So it’s over under year 2000, which I thought was an interesting inflection point and also it’s nice and round. So

[00:29:17.86] spk_1:
There’s a whole bunch of before 2000. Okay.

[00:30:20.54] spk_0:
Oh yeah, no, no, I think That, I mean it’s a long swath of time to look at and you know, the difference is really that this uh in last century 41% had no ads versus in this century 37%. So you know, 4% points total difference in just the binary decision. Should we have that ads, advertising and promotion? Um and then the median spend of this century was not that much higher, but it’s about 400 ISH, $400 higher uh simply by nothing else controlling for everything else, right? Like nothing else. You just, you’re just going to spend a little bit more if you are going to spend and you’re more likely to be spending on that. So it wasn’t mine, I kind of wish there was a bigger differential. So it’s actually much tighter than, and I have to, I have to say the counter narrative here is that do something dot org, one of my alma mater’s uh what Founded in 1993 and still had a well well above average as fund. So they are like the outlier that I didn’t even have to take that long to find.

[00:30:38.34] spk_1:
It’s impressive that you were the chief technology officer and do something that’s uh that’s a, that’s quite a renowned organization for What, what’s their sweet spot, 14-17 or 14-18 or 14-20 year olds taking, taking action and all the data that you gathered from them. That’s uh that’s quite a, that’s quite a job to have had. It’s impressive.

[00:31:17.44] spk_0:
It was an interesting time to have that role. I’ll say that for sure because there was a lot of, you know, a lot of tech being just sort of introduced web to, oh, just becoming of age, you know, you look at facebook pages and that existing for the first time in that period of time being like, what do we do with this now? I don’t know, what do we do? Like there was a lot of like, have you used this thing, you’re like, oh God, what is this thing now that I have to go figure out and then building our own platform as well and then sort of, you know, data privacy and protection and jumping in? I’d say the biggest piece we figured out was SMS in that period of time, the power of text messaging, which is still, you know, widely under appreciated, I’d say in the social impact sector. I do take, you know, huge nod of the hat to twilio dot org and what they’re doing out there, but it’s a, you know, it was an interesting time to be the cto

[00:31:49.34] spk_1:
and what was the the prime age group for? Do something? I was trying to guess, I was like 14 to 18 or something. Yeah, it’s

[00:32:15.14] spk_0:
extended, you know, I think they would extend it to through college age, but there’s like different sort of calls to action along the way. While I was there, we were predominantly focused on teens and tweens and that sort of intro level to volunteerism and engagement to foster a lifetime of social engagement. And and since then they’ve really evolved because guess what? You know, if you know, if you have half a million people that are of this age, it’s silly to say like, all right, goodbye, Good luck. I’m like, yeah, we can still provide services. We can still provide ways for them to engage. So it’s kind of an interesting quandary. I think for a lot of youth focused organizations to be like, where do you draw that line?

[00:32:53.54] spk_1:
Well, and because eventually those folks are gonna turn over 45 and then they’re just gonna be dinosaurs. Like like you hypothesized about the older organizations so you better get all the data you can now or you know, do something better because once, they once they turned 45, I mean they’re practically dead and they can’t adapt. Their their minds

[00:32:55.86] spk_0:
are impossible.

[00:32:57.15] spk_1:
Yeah. Their brains are neck roast it.

[00:32:59.63] spk_0:
Well actually, no, not completely, but maybe 4% more of them. Like 4% points. four

[00:33:04.59] spk_1:
percent. Alright. Yeah. Good. Thank you for bringing us back to the survey study. So we’re not a servant to the study, definitely

[00:33:11.63] spk_0:
stepped in it. I’m sorry.

[00:33:22.84] spk_1:
So uh let’s talk about what I what I had confused with that larger larger organizations. What did you find out about that? That’s that’s it.

[00:34:56.04] spk_0:
Well, I think the interesting thing is not that hey, surprise larger people with more money, spend more money. This just in from things you probably already knew uh is that it’s the same ratio. So that sort of golden ratio of 5% of revenue just paired out for small and large organizations. My assumption there that I went in there with a sort of hypothesis was that The smaller organizations would probably disproportionately spend at a higher ratio, but it didn’t turn out to be true. So in fact, that sort of 5% of revenue held across large and small organizations, albeit yeah, large organizations spent more. So if you do like if you just take away a quick thing, you could accidentally assume that oh, large organizations got big by spending more. You’re like, well no, they’re larger and they still spend at that ratio, which is in and of itself interesting because it is a much bigger number. And between those two groups where we divided it between large and small, which was over under I should note small organizations being 125 million. So small and 5 to 10 million. So we just basically through the line down the middle and it just equated to the large organizations had a median those three X. In terms of revenue three X. The amount that the 1 to 5 did and that was the same ratio three X more in ad spend. So you know, if you were doing lazy reporting, you say like large organizations spend three times the amount you’re like, Yeah, but that’s just a symptom of numbers. Okay, okay.

[00:35:04.24] spk_1:
And employees, you also, you also tracked the number of full time employees at, at organizations.

[00:35:06.54] spk_0:
Yeah, this was a bear. Would

[00:35:08.42] spk_1:
you find related to? Why is it a bear?

[00:35:17.44] spk_0:
It was a bear. It was just really difficult to do to like segment based on, you know how many employees and they’re simple.

[00:35:18.71] spk_1:
Isn’t there a simple question on the 9 90 I’m not an accountant. So I don’t

[00:36:07.13] spk_0:
know the total number of employees is technically available. So we were able to grab that number and then parse it out. It’s just parsing it between under 55 to 9, 10 to 14 employees, 15 to 19 employees. Uh and sort of scaling that up. The biggest jump happens really from, you know, organizations with less than five employees just aren’t really spending on ads. And the hot take there is that, you know, surprise, it takes people to run the ads running ads and promotions takes dedicated, you know, person or part of a person to truly run. And then as you sort of scale up, you have like random ebbs and flows, but the biggest jump really is that like if you have an organization with under five people, um, they’re really, they’re nowhere near that median ad spend because they come in at like uh 500 bucks versus immediately get to $2000. Um, once you get 5 to 9 and then the next biggest jump, you know, happens once you’re over 24 people, just larger organizations

[00:36:42.33] spk_1:
acquaintance with what goes into this, what why it takes you just said it takes a person or at least a part of a person for organizations that aren’t doing this for the, for the, Well for the 60% that that aren’t spending, what what did they have to devote time to?

[00:36:47.93] spk_0:
It is the most valuable asset of nonprofit has its not the revenue, it’s the time of the people working and to run an ad on facebook to place an ad in the paper. Let’s say if you’re running to place an ad on this very podcast, it takes time for someone to email setup, established the price, manage and test the R. O. I.

[00:37:34.53] spk_1:
It’s not create uh an obstacle where it doesn’t exist. All you have to do is email tony at tony-martignetti dot com. If you want to be a sponsor of nonprofit radio it’s quite a fluid process. George’s referring to George is referring to a university is not that well acquainted with right. This study is not on podcasting advertising When, when he does that one. I hope I will be a part of it. But uh, the, the, I don’t know about the podcasting universe, but if you want to be a sponsor of nonprofit radio it’s a very fluid, easy process. You’re talking directly to the host of the ceo. Just

[00:37:44.47] spk_0:
email you, do it right now. We can do it right now.

[00:38:00.62] spk_1:
Yes, you can do it right now. Whole whale. If whole whale was a sponsor, you would know how fluid and simple it is. But you haven’t taken, you haven’t taken that leap. So all right, let’s not go outside the bounds of the study as we’re, as we’re trying to draw conclusions. So

[00:38:16.22] spk_0:
We take, you know, we sort of take it as sort of maybe a core number that, Oh, you know, we can spend $12,000. A median number, but it doesn’t happen by itself. I mean, nothing simply does. So that that type of ad management was in the back of our mind saying like, you know, you have to track the R. O. Y. You have to create the report for the boss. You have to set up the landing page or whatever it may be that you’re running ads for. It’s not just as simple as saying like, oh cool, no problem. You know, through your credit card over there and you know, let it run. So that’s the thought that it takes labor to implement ads

[00:38:39.72] spk_1:
and your study makes the point that even if you’re hiring someone to do the ads for you. You need someone to oversee the work of the consultant or the firm.

[00:39:07.32] spk_0:
Yeah, I mean the numbers bear out that, you know, it definitely tracks as you go up in a number of employees, um that you’re, you’re able to see a higher spend. Now. That’s also corollary to the amount of revenue. But we also show that along the way, which, you know, incrementally increases but doesn’t necessarily follow along with the differences that you see. So, you know, I don’t purport that this study will show you how to set up your advertising department. But it will tell you that you can’t assume this thing happens in a vacuum and without labor.

[00:40:03.11] spk_1:
Yes. Okay. Well, and you’re a digital uh, advertising agency in at least in part, how much of a full time employee would you do you estimate it would take for? Well, it doesn’t really well for a smaller organization, let’s say they let’s say someone has just 10 employees or fewer like what, how many, what percentage of a full time employees time would that size organization Spending on ads if they were gonna move themselves from the 60% that don’t advertise at all to the 40% that do

[00:40:20.81] spk_0:
an interesting framing there. If you had 10 employees according to a study, you’d have an average revenue of roughly call it 2.3 million your median ad spend for that cluster would be $2100 and You know, oh, that doesn’t require a full time employee. But it’s gonna take about, you know, 2100

[00:40:28.61] spk_1:
That’s in a year. That’s 2100 a year. Yeah. So you’re just spending a little under $200 a month.

[00:40:40.21] spk_0:
I mean, Yeah, I mean and and and 2000. Yeah,

[00:40:42.12] spk_1:
22,000, exactly. 200 a month will be 2400 a year. So you’re saying 2100. So

[00:41:49.21] spk_0:
Yeah. So for that number that’s, that’s easily managed in 10% of somebody’s time depending on the type of Advertising activity that you’re doing. The hope is that that allows you enough to test where there’s value and increase that number, ads can be spent for a number of different reasons. And this is getting back to maybe why my assumption on fundraising was so flawed is ads may be spent to spread awareness of a topic a theme to increase public awareness. I don’t know for vaccines for health research, it’s not necessarily direct 1-1 ratio with fundraising. However, and if you are able and you are trying to turn one ad dollar into two donated dollars and you figure out a way to do that. It’s the hope that spending that and having somebody paying attention to it may figure out a way to get a bit of a little bit of a money engine going for you, spending adds to increase donations to the organization. And that Is a hope of this study. It is a hope that you’re saying, you know what it is worth, frankly 20% of someone’s time to play around with some amount of money that would let us learn and then do more of what works.

[00:42:29.30] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. That’s a pretty good wrap up actually. But I’ll give you a chance to to make it official because we’ve, you’ve covered all your explicit findings in the, in the study which folks can get at whole whale dot com slash advertising very appropriately named simple. Uh, simple U. R. L. Whole whale dot com slash advertising. What would you like to leave folks with George?

[00:42:33.10] spk_0:
I think that point lands hopefully. Well, and I haven’t offended any older organizations out there from which only only older,

[00:42:41.44] spk_1:
only older people. You haven’t offended any organization, not just the older people

[00:42:45.18] spk_0:
For 4% of them. Right.

[00:42:48.60] spk_1:
Well, that was, that was a differential, but it seemed

[00:42:51.50] spk_0:
Like it was 100% of those people were offended before.

[00:42:56.31] spk_1:
No, no, no, no. The way you did it, it was, it was wider.

[00:42:59.55] spk_0:
It was

[00:43:00.19] spk_1:

[00:43:00.78] spk_0:
differential. I

[00:43:07.30] spk_1:
understand the differential was 4%. You didn’t offend only 4% of People over 45. Now you offended most of us.

[00:44:35.79] spk_0:
That’s, that’s pretty good. Well, I’ll be joining you shortly so I can, I can join in the offending club. I uh, I will say that there is a lot to, to dig into here, but it is really meant to be an asset for anyone making the case in an organization to say, Hey, why don’t we try this? Why don’t we try to spend? It seems like our counterparts that are in this field are doing so in learning and so if you’re not spending, you’re not learning. And when I look at platforms, social platforms, that purport to be, you know, ways for you to get this organic traffic that will magically come to your site. So if you are posting, for example, on facebook, on instagram, frankly on most social platforms, you are losing money because the platform truly for for non profits for companies. Social media platforms are advertising platforms first and social platforms. Second, one more time. If you are a company, if you are a non profit Social Media is an advertising platform 1st And in an organic social network. 2nd, possibly distant second. Depending on which one we’re talking about. And so it’s like sending somebody in your communications remarketing department to work without a computer by not saying, hey, here’s a bit add money to play with and learn what might be possible for us. So that’s, that’s the thought I want to leave you with. I think.

[00:45:10.89] spk_1:
All right and not just me. All our listeners. Thank you. He’s George wegner He’s the chief. Well, at whole whale, whole whale dot com hotmail dot com slash advertising for the nonprofit advertising benchmark study. If you’re on twitter there at whole whale, thank you, George. Terrific. Thanks for sharing and thanks for being a good sport captain. Ahab. Mhm.

[00:45:11.69] spk_0:
Thanks Tony. Thanks for having us

[00:45:42.49] spk_1:
next week purpose driven marketing. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. And let me remind you how simple it is to be a nonprofit radio sponsor. Just email, tony up, tony-martignetti dot com. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff

[00:45:57.79] spk_2:
shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Marc Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott stein, thank you for that. Affirmation Scotty be with me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit

[00:46:15.59] spk_1:
ideas for the However, go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for August 17, 2020: Google Ad Grants & Be A Payment Processing Pro

My Guests:

Chris Barlow: Google Ad Grants
These are generous grants, up to $10,000 per month. What do you need in place to take advantage of the grants? How do you get in? What are best practices? Plus advice on 3-year-old tantrums from a father of 6. Hear it all from Chris Barlow at Beeline.



Christina Schnoor, Lily Ickow, & Maureen Wallbeof: Be A Payment Processing Pro
You’ll keep more of your online gifts if you make informed decisions about online payment processors. They’re not all the same. Our 20NTC panel gets you where you’d like to be. They’re Christina Schnoor with American Near East Refugee Aid (Anera); Lily Ickow from EveryAction; and Maureen Wallbeoff at Practical Wisdom for Nonprofit Accidental Techies.


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Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.


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[00:00:12.58] spk_1:
welcome tony-martignetti non profit radio big

[00:01:47.54] spk_2:
non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of leptospirosis if you infected me with the idea that you missed today’s show. Google Ad grants These are generous grants up to $10,000 per month. What do you need in place to take advantage of the grants? How do you get in what are best practices? Plus advice on three year old tantrums from a father of six? Here it all from Chris Barlow at Beeline and be a payment processing pro. You’ll keep more of your online gift if you make informed decisions about online payment processors. They’re not all the same are 20 and TC Panel gets you where you’d like to be. They’re Christina. Snore with American Near East Refugee Aid Lily Aiko from every action and Maureen will be off at practical wisdom for non profit accidental techies. Tony Steak to a free how to guide were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen. Two dot ceo. Here is Google ad Grants

[00:01:50.14] spk_4:

[00:02:23.09] spk_1:
my pleasure to welcome Chris Barlow to the show. He is the director of Beeline, a marketing firm that helps nonprofits further their missions and grow their supporter bases through Google ads. The man, the main the main hat he wears is being a father to six kids, six kids and trying to raise them bilingual. Although most of the credit for that goes to his German wife. The company is at beeline dot marketing, and he’s at Beeline. Underscore, Chris, Chris Partlow. Welcome to the show.

[00:02:24.94] spk_0:
Thank you very much, tony.

[00:02:26.54] spk_1:
Pleasure to have you six kids. How old do they?

[00:02:30.04] spk_0:
My oldest is 13 and just start 13. My youngest is 18 months.

[00:02:41.09] spk_1:
Okay, That’s Ah, that’s a lot of kids by today’s standards. 60 s. Yeah, right.

[00:02:48.59] spk_0:
We’ve learned that we’ve learned a thing or two about how to do more with less by the share. I think that helps helps with the understanding what nonprofits after that make do it.

[00:02:58.56] spk_1:
Okay. And and eight people together during a pandemic. No school. What the, uh, were the prospects for school in Fort Collins, Colorado, this fall.

[00:03:32.84] spk_0:
Um, so they as of yesterday, they closed schools and, Ah, but we weren’t too worried about it. Our kids go to we’re just doing, ah, once a week school and and home school the other day. So we’re used to having him around. Yeah. Uh, OK. They were sad to have that. Their their enrichment classes canceled, but yeah, I’m sure, But we’re we work. We’ve been doing pretty well. It’s, uh that’s all. Things considered eight

[00:03:34.94] spk_1:
people eight people together is a lot. Yeah, and one is the youngest is with 13 months.

[00:03:40.07] spk_0:
18 months. Yeah,

[00:03:43.54] spk_1:
OK, OK. All right. I don’t Maybe this is a distraction for you from from family. No, no, not at all. Okay. Google ad grants. So the company gives up to $10,000 a month for advertising, which for most of our listeners, at least many of our listeners, that’s a lot of money and maybe even too much. So how’d oh, Adam people know if if the grants or something that they should even apply for

[00:05:19.37] spk_0:
that’s a really good question. Um, right. Cause the one thing that separates Google ad grants from any other kind of grant that I know off is, um if you’re eligible, you’re pretty much guaranteed to get in the program. If you can get through the application process, it’s not a matter of whether you’re gonna win the craft or not. So the more important question is is our non profit positions to make use of this? Is it going to be worth our time? Um, and there are four main things that, um, I would consider as a non profit to help you decide. Help me decide whether this is a program I should apply for. Um, I’ll just list them real quick, and then we want to look at talk about each one we can is how how big is our region that we serve or the or the our donor base? Are people actually searching for what we do on the Internet? Um, how strong is our website and our digital presence and forth? Do we have announced expertise or some budget to to help manage this this grant program in the ads? Okay, um, I can list those region,

[00:05:20.68] spk_1:
right? Right. Your region. And are people searching?

[00:05:24.54] spk_0:
Yeah. How strong is our digital presence or the website? Right broker and then in house expertise or budget.

[00:05:30.64] spk_1:
Okay, so let’s talk about the region. Why is why is this important?

[00:05:55.54] spk_0:
So it you can if you are a local non profit only serving within your city, you can still make use of blue black grants depending on how big your city is, or I should say anyone can apply, of course, and you can get it. But if you’re in a small city and there’s a limited amount of people searching it made, the results may not be that impactful. Okay,

[00:06:05.33] spk_1:
so you’re gonna have to put some time into creating your ad grants campaign, right? There is a potential downside if the upside isn’t gonna be significant enoughto justify it

[00:06:46.34] spk_0:
exactly. Now, I work with nonprofits in S cities, cities of you know, 150,000 people, and it’s worth it to them. Um, but, you know, if it again that the larger your region is, the bigger impact advance will be for him. So if you’ve got donors across the country or you you want to start if you if you feel like you’re going, you could have Ah, if you have a large enough mission that people could from around the nation could support you. And you want to get donors through the campaign that’ll work. Or if you serve a really large area, um, again, Then it’ll be worthwhile program. Okay, From matter.

[00:07:05.13] spk_1:
If you’re in a small community, what’s the word of mouth? People know you. Just because everybody knows the handful of nonprofits in town, there’s probably not a lot of advantage for you. Yep. Okay, if you’re not serving a broader a broader base than your small community, Okay, so so at least really to the next point. You are people searching for what you do,

[00:08:19.44] spk_0:
right? Yep. So I’m unlike a nab that you would do on social media or, you know, on a website where you put a banner you are with Google ads. You can only do keyword based ads on a Google search, and so you are limited by the number of people who are searching, So maybe you’re across the nation. But for whatever reason, what you do is very niche or people don’t think no, you even exist or even that your service’s exist. So people aren’t necessarily going to be searching for what you do or anything related. If that’s the case, you You know, I What I recommend is doing some research. There are some free tools online that you could get an estimated number of searches being done, and you could just put in different keywords and c o r people searching for this problem that we solved on. If you’ve If you find that, OK, there are, then it might be worth it. But if if if it’s really niche, you know, no one searching for what you guys do, then it’s gonna be limited. What you’re the impact is gonna be for you. So that’s one way you can kind of make the decision.

[00:08:20.84] spk_1:
Chris, can you name wanted to those sites that people can use to estimate search traffic around phrases?

[00:08:41.34] spk_0:
Yes. Um, there is one called ECM Rush s search engine marketing SCM Rush. Um, there’s another one called Spy Fu. Um, and if you just do a search, Okay? Google Google has one. It’s themselves that you can use to Google keyword planner.

[00:08:49.54] spk_1:
And how do you spell ZX by food?

[00:08:52.06] spk_0:
S s p y like you’re spying f you like, come food.

[00:09:09.51] spk_1:
Okay, I would said fo So I’m glad you said okay. SP y f you okay? Just in case listeners want to do their own the test marketing of some keywords to see whether people are searching for what they’re with their work is and then your your digital presence.

[00:10:48.04] spk_0:
Yeah, So it kind of depends on what your goal is. Um, for the campaigns. If you, um, are a local non profit and you have service is for the community a large enough community that it’s worth, um, you know, using Google advance, Um, then maybe you don’t need if you’re if you’re very service but based your in person or you’re bringing meals or whatever it might be you don’t. Your website needs to be good, but it doesn’t need to have anything particularly compelling. It just needs to really show what you guys do. And and, of course, if you want donors your goals to get donors, you need to have you need to tell your story really well digitally because you’re trying to bring new people to your site and tell your story. But if you’re just trying to help people access, your service is it just needs to really make the point clear and across and no say whether it’s making appointment with you or or showing up to one of your pop up events or whatever it might be that your non profit does. The website doesn’t necessarily need to be, you know, really, really, you know, amazing content. But if your goal is, um to get donors, yeah, you need. If you want to get people to subscribe and want to keep learning about your mission, then you have to tell your story well, and you know you have to have If you have video, that’s gonna be really important. Um, some some nonprofits, um, you know, you they provide their service is digitally they have on my courses, um, or other online resource is they’re gonna probably already have a really good digital presence. And there are a perfect fit for Google ad grants. I worked with a non profit. They do parenting resources, and so, you know they have people searching pit parents are searching across the country. How do you know sibling conflict in the midst of a pandemic and

[00:10:54.82] spk_1:
you could write those you can. You should be a contributing blogger for them

[00:11:08.59] spk_0:
Yeah, exactly. So? So they get tons of people who are finding them and go there blawg and download stuff and get on to the email list. And and so that’s what they’re great fit. Um, but you have to if you know, the stronger your online presence is stronger, website them or impact that the grants is gonna have you.

[00:11:31.68] spk_1:
Okay, cool. And then either needs some in house expertise, I guess, to manage all your campaign and or you need to have some money to spend. So I take it this is not something that say an executive director can take on and and learn and then manage when you know it’s like a one or two employees shop.

[00:11:40.44] spk_0:
I don’t think so. If you’re

[00:11:42.34] spk_4:

[00:11:57.16] spk_0:
the executive director with some marketing experience, are already have worked with Google, I would say, definitely, you don’t have to be running perfectly, Um, because you’re getting free ad spend. If you waste some of it, it’s not a big deal. Um, it doesn’t have to be perfect. And if you, um,

[00:11:59.24] spk_1:
there’s a learning curve to, there’s

[00:12:00.40] spk_0:
a learning curve, you have to spend a little time learning, and it isn’t the most time intensive kind of campaign you can run, but yeah, you can’t just expect you can do it while you’re wearing five other hats and you’ve never done it before. You need to have someone who can learn it in your house in house, for you have to know the higher it.

[00:12:21.84] spk_1:
Okay. Like the B line marketing? Yeah, for example, for example. Right. Okay. Okay, um, now you don’t have to take all $10,000 I guess. Or do you? Should you, Justin, may as well spend as much as you can.

[00:12:48.04] spk_0:
Yeah. You may as well spend as much. You can’t some. The thing is, it’s at 10,000 per month. 329 per day is what it actually is. So, um, you might hit that $300 million spend in our A nonprofit that really is able to spend it might hit that number really fast, and then you’re out of budget for the day. But if you’re only spending 2000 of it Hey, that’s $2000. You weren’t spending before, and now you’re getting that kind of exposure?

[00:13:03.04] spk_1:
Yeah. Okay. You may as well take the maximum and and work with it and play with it. All right, So if we feel like we’ve got our our foundation laid the way you’re just describing, how do you apply?

[00:14:28.40] spk_0:
Um, so you can just go to Google for non profits and you have tow. Essentially, you can start the application there. You have to be basically be approved by rule. As a non profit organization, they you start with tech soup, you get it verified by tech soup as non profit. Okay, that’s what Google uses to do the non profit verification process. And then applying for Google for nonprofits is really easy. That doesn’t take too much time. Um, and I have a guide. I’m happy to share with you, tony, that people can follow step by step. Uh, the checklist. The harder part is, once your angle for non profits, you have to apply for at grants. And, um, that involves setting up a campaign a start, you know, starter campaign. It doesn’t have to be what you find, you know, you can continue to work on it and change it, but you have to start with something and go will review that campaign and say, OK, you’ve done. You’ve chucked dot all your i’s and cross border tease. Your campaign looks ready to go. And now we will give you the grabs. Okay, Okay. And at the guy offer. And you could find stuff online. Two guides to to apply. What does you know Kind of give you those steps, but it doesn’t tell you how to do the campaigns that, but Google also does some of that on their site.

[00:14:39.74] spk_1:
Is this guide at your site be lined up marketing guy? Do you have?

[00:14:40.56] spk_0:
Yeah, it’s some. Yeah, it’s just under my service is tap. Um, but I’m also happy to send it to anyone who asks.

[00:14:52.64] spk_1:
OK, OK, well, people can go to your website. I don’t want you to be burdened with 1000 emails.

[00:15:22.29] spk_2:
It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As paycheck protection program. Loan forgiveness. This is still out there looming. You need to get your forgiveness application in. Wegner has you covered? They’re free. Webinar explains p p p loan forgiveness. Go to wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click resource is and recorded events. Now back to Google ad grants with Chris Barlow.

[00:15:35.04] spk_1:
If we’ve now we’ve applied, we’ve been approved. What are some good practices. Let’s start off with what’s your top tip for using this? This $10,000 a month?

[00:17:07.23] spk_0:
Yeah. Obviously, this is kind of an obvious thing, but you want to think about what your goal is and decide what it conversion ISS, and you might have more than one goal or war. The one conversion, a lot of non profit Start with, um, how can we further our mission and help more people find us? Just that we that we conserve because those people are a lot more likely to convert, um, those that that requires less effort because you’re there to help them already and whether you’re serving them physically and you’re just making them helping them avail them of your service is or they can get something online digital from your block or whatever. Um, that is a much quicker win. Um, if you want to grow your supporter base, um that, you know, again, just being aware of what your goal is and deciding what is the smallest step a person can take toward that goal, like of my ultimate goal, is to get supporters and donors. Then what’s the smaller step that someone can take, you know, the first time they come to our site, they’ve never heard of us. The smallest step they can take is to watch one of our videos. Or can we get them to sign up for our analyst? Because if they just come to our site one time and go away, we have no way to reconnect with those people. We don’t know who they are. So the importance of realizing that Google ad grants is great for getting people to your site. Um, but you need to really know what their next step is gonna be. And the smaller that is, the easier that is, the more likely they’re going to take that step.

[00:17:15.53] spk_1:
Did you have a specific landing page of what? Your advance? Incoming traffic?

[00:17:43.81] spk_0:
Yeah. Depends. I think, you know, having a landing page is great if you have a very specific goal in mind. Um, you know, I want to offer this this resource, um, five ways toe to apply to, You know, maybe you help low income people, families or individuals, you know, get a job or whatever at my career Resource is

[00:17:48.76] spk_1:
or sign a petition or something.

[00:18:29.50] spk_0:
Yeah, sign a petition, Right. So So you have a landing page specific for that goal. It could be great. Also, just to send for people to your website, your general website, as long as there’s an easy way for them to take the next step whether that stopped in or call you or whatever it is, The main thing to consider there is I want a match. The page that I sent people to to the key where they searched as closely as I can. The more relevant, um, you know, if they’re searching for, ah, something related to, um, you know, gruel, you know, hygiene kit for homeless. You know, you wanna you want to make sure that we’re, you know, as close as you can you match. So if you just send them to your home page website, that’s a very generic place to send them. So if you have a block post addressing that specific question, that’s a great place to send them.

[00:18:50.14] spk_1:
Okay? And this all goes back to your goal. Exactly. Go is donor acquisition? Then they should get to an information page. That’s gonna Or maybe maybe they should just be right that the donation page. I don’t know what that

[00:18:54.01] spk_0:
donation page can work. A ZX long as your donation page has videos and things that will get people excited.

[00:19:22.00] spk_1:
Okay, They need a little bit more information that quite radio give you the credit card number. Yes. But you also don’t want them wandering around reading block posts. Yes. You distracted by the petition, et cetera, when you know that they searched for, you know, giving or you’re confident that whatever brought them in, they are in the mind of donating.

[00:19:25.65] spk_0:
Yeah, Yeah, you’re a ghoul Cares about relevance. And that that the relevance is what you’re abscess and how relevant are at is to the what they searched. And then the page two and goodwill measures that by

[00:19:36.84] spk_1:
oh ho hos that Google knows that your head sends people do. And they

[00:19:41.46] spk_0:
well, they know how long people stand the page. If you have Google analytics on the site, they know that. And so the longer people stay, that’s a better user experience,

[00:20:03.74] spk_1:
right? All right, maybe this is maybe this is obvious, but I’m trainable. So Google Analytics works both ways. It gives you gives you data, but it also gives feedback toe Google. Okay.

[00:20:04.52] spk_0:
And I mean, maybe

[00:20:09.91] spk_1:
that maybe that’s commonly known among Google analytics users. All right, I didn’t know that. Yeah. Let your surrendering data as well as retrieving it for yourself.

[00:21:03.91] spk_0:
Yeah, well, it’s It’s so that, you know, because if your users are having a good experience, Google will show your ads will give you give you more ad impressions because people are having a date. They won’t care about what the user experiences when they click on your ad and stuff. And so, you know, give him a good experience. If they take that, they convert. Maybe they don’t spend a lot of time on your site, but they convert. They give you guys a call or fill in a form, and that’s what you said as one of your goals. Google. You know, that gets measured into your at, um at data and Google says, Okay, we’ll show your adds more often, or, um, you know, you know how Google as is it is an auction. Well, will be it higher for this ad to show on these keywords because people tend to convert, and that’s a good experience with user. So we’re gonna make sure your ad gets shown because people are converting.

[00:21:05.74] spk_1:
Okay, Okay, is excellent advice. What else? For using this grant money.

[00:21:43.44] spk_0:
Um, if you can focus on traffic first, um, it you don’t want to ignore conversions and ignore getting people to take the next step. But higher traffic, the higher traffic you have the more of that grant or spending that it’s faster and easier to to test what? You know that conversion. Maybe you’re trying to get donors. And, you know, if you’re getting 100 people to your site, um, that’s gonna take a lot longer than if you get 1000 people to your site to figure out OK, people are really responding to this video. Are there? Are there are they’re signing up for our list or they’re donating.

[00:21:46.44] spk_1:
It’s a matter of more validity in a larger sample size. Exactly. You could drop more conclusions from 1000 people than you can from a population of 100

[00:23:20.50] spk_0:
yet, And so to get more traffic, um, I mean they’re number ways, but one of the best things you can do is to, um, add, keep adding he works, and because it’s at grants. They don’t have to be the perfect keywords that, um, are are your absolute ideal donors. They could be people who are searching for kind of related topics that they’re still, you know, related to what you do. And, um, you can, you know, get people further, further away from the final, you know, instead of the very most qualified people. So adding keywords and then another good practice is along with that, um, when you organize your campaign, people typically take a pool of keywords, say, 20 keywords, and then they create and their related to each other. And then they create one app for those keywords. Um, because they’re fairly related keywords. And I recommend using single theme or single keyword ad groups where you each at each keyword has a unique first headline. So you work. That ad is close to that. This is the key word s possible, or Hubert phrase. Or maybe you have just three or four different keywords cubits radio phrases for at so just having much smaller groups because that makes sure that the ad the first headline that people see and your ad is as close to what they actually search.

[00:23:23.58] spk_1:
Can you give an example of that?

[00:24:55.04] spk_0:
Yeah. Um, so if someone searches for it, got using this example that I mentioned before of parenting resources. If someone searches for, ah, three years, three year old tantrum, Um, the standard philosophy might be three year old tan drum, five year old tantrum child hand drum. You haven’t ad about tantrums with single keyword or single theme at groups. You instead say, three year old tantrum as the headline, and then you have a different at for five year old tantrum because it matches exactly what the person searched. Um, you don’t necessarily have to get back granular by creating that many different, unique first headlines, but you can try to make it as narrow as possible. Um, and that way, people, because here’s another best practice or way to think about Google ads as opposed to like Facebook or another kind of ad platform. It’s not about like having the ideal branded like emotional trigger that really draws people in. People do a Google search, and they look at the search results and then make a split second decision. Um, and it and you really just want to make show people. I understand your intent and I match what you’re thinking. And so the relevance that could match of the key word just getting that is as close as possible is what helps ensure that you can have a really high number of people who are clicking on your abs.

[00:25:07.34] spk_1:
Do you have a three year old?

[00:25:09.34] spk_0:
I’m a four year old.

[00:25:21.34] spk_1:
So you’ve been to you’ve been down a three year old a few times. Eso eso alright, don’t told aggression. What’s your top top top tip for three year old tantrums?

[00:25:56.04] spk_0:
Um, you’ve got Teoh. Do you show show empathy. You gotta show You have to show empathy on and telling a while that is Are you are feeling really mad about that and validate a feeling, Um, and you have to you have to be calm yourself. You have to. Sometimes you have to step away and calling yourself first. That’s probably the most important thing. And then you can show empathy and how you are feeling something really strong and back. Tens toe helped start just yet.

[00:25:56.93] spk_1:
Okay, because your your father expert as well you have six Children.

[00:26:00.40] spk_0:
I have a lot of a lot. You know, what I found is more kits I’ve had, you know, other more. I need to work.

[00:26:20.70] spk_1:
Well, yeah, OK, but there are people with one or two. You could learn a lot from a guy. Time six. So All right. Um, thank you. Topping up three year old tension, Right? So, yes, you gotta deescalate yourself. You got to take a deep yourself, then. All right, then show your empathy. You got to get yourself under control.

[00:26:25.28] spk_0:
That’s right. Yeah. If you if you’re not safe in terms of just your if your flight or flight is going off, If you’re feeling really stressed out, it’s gonna come through and how you address it. Um, that’s really how I feel. Like that’s half the battle. You can calm yourself down. You’ll be able that manage the rest.

[00:26:43.84] spk_1:
OK? All right. We still got a couple minutes left, so don’t hold out.

[00:27:13.74] spk_0:
S o. One interesting thing about adds to with Google is, um, low. The lowest common denominator. Um, with the ad itself is good, like, unfortunately, but it’s it’s just a fact like your would have your ad written at a level that third grader lower. Okay. Use really simple words. Use you. So, you know, um, you’re not trying to sound really sophisticated, because again, people aren’t reading things in death

[00:27:34.54] spk_1:
way. Think about our own behavior. And a The page of Google Search results were scanning. We’re looking for the the most closely related to what we want, and we’re grabbing it. So you do have to keep it simple.

[00:28:23.54] spk_0:
That’s right. Um, another thing that’s kind of worth trying is, um, Google Ghoul really wants to keep growing their use of machine learning and ai ai, and they have two kinds of ads that take advantage of that. There’s one kind of ad called Responsive, sir. Chats R S A. This is where you write headlines and descriptions and then Google intelligible. You mix and match and find what works best. I think this is a great advocate, great kind of way to do it because you control what and says, but Google decides what it shows instead of you writing. You know, I’m Here’s the first headline. Here’s a second and buying Here’s the description. I want you to show this exact thing. You just give it. Here’s your toolbox and you find what works best?

[00:28:27.32] spk_1:
Oh, really? And then Google chooses

[00:29:04.74] spk_0:
you. Go chooses, Um, and then another one, which is, um, has its It’s worth trying. It can work well. It can also work really merely and poorly. Um, and it’s getting It’s getting better. It’s called dynamic search Jets, and basically you just set up a campaign that’s the dynamics or Jack campaign. And Google scans your website, and it does everything. When someone does a keyword search, it picks the landing page. It writes the ad and shows the ad. So it it does the whole of

[00:29:06.75] spk_1:
your surrendering, your surrendering, training, everything. So what do you What do you give it to chips from?

[00:29:15.11] spk_0:
Um, your website? Okay, that’s it.

[00:29:16.19] spk_1:
Falls, That’s That’s this Ball Z.

[00:29:17.78] spk_0:
Yeah, so I mean,

[00:29:19.19] spk_5:
you can experiment. You can

[00:29:34.38] spk_0:
experiment, you can absolutely experiment. And, um, you know, sometimes that Google rights and add that really isn’t so good. But it does a pretty good job of matching the page that they send people to to the terms that they searched because that’s what Google does best.

[00:29:37.93] spk_1:
All right, now that was dynamic search ads. What’s the What’s the R s a

[00:30:56.74] spk_0:
responsive search at. Okay. Okay, um, and then another thing, no matter what your goal is, you really need to have you have in mind follow up. Um, especially with donors you need tohave, you know, email marketing, or have something in plant but in place where you can continue to reach out to people. Um, if you’re serving clientele, um, you know, maybe people aren’t ready to come in, like if there, if they need to make an appointment with you or our work with you directly. One on one. Maybe people searching on Google aren’t ready to do that, but so instead, you offer a non online resource where they get it for free, and then you follow up with him via email and address some other questions they might have and encourage them that now you can come in and take advantage of our service is our or whatever. It might be our you know, if it’s a petition like okay, you’re not ready to sign the petition. Here’s some questions to Beacon thinking about, you know, and along this issue care clearly you care about this issue, and so then you can follow up with them with with over email. Exactly. Now, when you consider how we asked questions why you consider signing the petition? So that’s a, um, another really important factor. And that’s actually, um, you know,

[00:30:57.39] spk_1:
plan. You don’t have a

[00:30:58.23] spk_0:
follow up, Ellen. And it’s also another factor in whether this is the right program for you. If you don’t have the resources to be able to follow up, especially if you’re trying to get you want donors from Google ads, then it’s probably not the right program for you right now. You can’t do the follow up.

[00:31:18.10] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So, uh, I certainly don’t wanna leave it on the negative. No right program for you if you can’t follow up. So leave us with ah, motivation.

[00:32:04.44] spk_0:
Yeah, well, I mean Google ad grants once you get it set up. Um, you know, if you’re just trying to do it yourself, I would say you could get it done in one of two hours per week of maintenance. And you can definitely see thousands of new visitors to your site. Hundreds of new people signing up for your email list. Um and ah, you know it. It’s like I said at the beginning. It is one of the neatest programs in terms of from on profits, because you can no, upfront. Is this gonna be something we should try And where are we going to get it? And you don’t have to take the risk of putting all the effort into applying. And then, you know, like most rants, you’re you’re lucky if you win it.

[00:32:10.04] spk_1:
Okay? I thought of another thing that I should have asked. You tell a story. Tell a good tele good at grand story.

[00:33:11.24] spk_0:
Okay, so I’m there was, ah, a lot of of nonprofits experience. They signed up for ad grants at one point, and then it didn’t go anywhere. Um, and I had a client like this, and they, um they had tried it, paid someone a lot of money, and it gotten in, but And that didn’t do anything. And ah asked me to take it over, and I just I was just trying to help them out. And I, um no volunteer my time for a little while with them and got got got things going cause I want They said, Let’s prove this out. If we can see that this is gonna be worth our while. We be happy that to hire you long term. Well, after six months, we were spending the entire $10,000. They were getting a few 100 use of strivers per month. And, uh, yeah, so it’s That was definitely an ink encouraging, uh, story.

[00:33:19.14] spk_1:
OK, yeah. A couple 100 new, quite newly acquired donors. That’s all right. He’s Chris Barlow at B line. Underscore Chris the company again. Beeline dot marketing Thank you very much, Chris. Real pleasure. Thanks for sharing.

[00:33:27.16] spk_0:
Thank you, tony. Great to be on

[00:34:46.37] spk_2:
absolutely time for a break. Tony’s take two. I’ve got a free how to guide for you to get your planned giving program started. It’s time. It’s time you can do this. The download is unleash the game changing power of planned giving at your non profit. It’s my ideas for how to get your program started. You don’t have to spend a lot of money. You don’t need expertise on your board or on your staff. You’re not talking to donors about their deaths. This is not going to cannibalize your fundraising. All these misconceptions, myths around, planned giving. All right, so I bust all those, and I explained how to get your program started. Step by step. You can get the free download Very simple. You don’t have to go to a site. This is It’s amazing. It’s amazing what we can do. Just text guide guide to 565 to 5 and you will get yours. It’s that simple text guide to 565 to 5. And that is tony Steak, too. Now it’s time for Be a payment processing pro.

[00:36:01.83] spk_1:
Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC 2020 non profit Technology Conference. Our coverage of 20 NTC is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? 20. Got em a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial, I guess now are Christina Snore Lily Aiko and Marine Wall be off. Christina is director of digital fundraising at America. American Near East Refugee Aid On era, Lily is vice president of payments and online fundraising at every action, and Maureen is non profit digital strategist and coach at practical wisdom for non profit accidental techies. So if you were deliberate techie accident, if you stumbled in like so many. Is Marines the right person doctor? All right, um, your NTC session is resume or by knowing more, become a payment processing pro. Uh, really, Are we, uh, we getting screwed by our payment processing contracts?

[00:36:08.30] spk_0:
I don’t

[00:36:08.55] spk_3:
know that that’s the way I would phrase it exactly. But I do think that there’s a lot of folks who you know payments is not many people’s areas, expertise, understandably, and they don’t want it to be also understandably. But there’s a lot that I think folks are leaving on the table because they don’t know what questions to be asking. Um, the naturally what we’re trying to help people understand is how can they go in and ask the right questions and make the right choices so that their maximizing your fundraising

[00:36:50.43] spk_1:
Okay, so you know what? What’s possible to put on the table that looks like it may looks non negotiable from the contract that you’re reading. Okay, there are things we can talk about. OK, um so now, um, yeah, really. Your vice president of payments that I haven’t seen that in a title before. I know it’s not your full title payments and online fundraising, but, uh, you does your organization, um is every action spending a lot of money on payments or

[00:37:08.13] spk_3:
Yeah, so explain kind of what that means. So I work on our product team, so I help figure out what new things we want to build into our software. So where us? A software provider for non profits for fundraising in a number of other things. And I focus on our fundraising, uh, products and specifically the kind of nitty gritty of how contributions are processed as part of a nonprofit fundraising. How do we make sure that as many contributions as possible are being processing process successfully? Eso that’s kind of my area of expertise, both in the product in just kind of in our business. More generally, how do we help make sure that clients are taking advantage? Everything can there.

[00:37:45.96] spk_1:
I see. Okay, Christina, what is your relationship with payment processing?

[00:37:51.61] spk_5:
So I kind of oversee our database, so just making sure that all of that is set up and working with their finance team. Um, you know, since I’m also manage all of our online donation for him, So it’s important that we, you know, have that set up correctly so everything can come through smoothly.

[00:38:13.42] spk_1:
Okay. Thank you. And, uh, Marine, what’s your What’s your role around? Payment processing. Are you Are you Are you like the holistic counselor for people who are frustrated by their by their lousy contracts?

[00:38:26.32] spk_4:
Um, I make sure So So this session actually came out of, Ah, Facebook Live that Lily and I did last summer on my facebook page because people, when they’re looking at new systems, especially CIA, rams or databases that have some type of transactional functionality is part of the system. They often don’t know what they should be looking for. Can they move to a new system and keep their existing processor? Where can they look for glossary of terms? So Christina happened to be one of my my clients and moved into every action and part of what we did together was she just said, make sure that the finance team was participating because some stuff is is not going to be part of Christina’s purview, you know, deciding and signing contracts and things for processors. The other thing that we’re finding comes up a lot is peanut types. People want to be able to offer Apple pay or Google wallet or Bitcoin. And how does a non profit accidental techie or fundraiser kind of navigate those waters most of the time? Folks on the ground or doing fundraising really don’t understand. And I certainly didn’t. What happens once a donor puts their pardon? You know, we know that everybody takes a little bites, but really, what happens? What is the non profit themselves responsible for? What’s the process of responsible for what’s the tool provider responsible for? And that’s why we wanted to submit this session to NTC this year. Teoh clear some of that up. What’s the ownership? How does it all work? And how do I take control of my pieces if I’m working exciting organization.

[00:40:29.49] spk_1:
Okay, Maureen, since have, uh, hosted something on exactly on this. You and Lily. I’m gonna deputize you as co host of this episode because it’s so you know, it’s so niche. And I don’t wanna want to focus on the wrong area. You know, I keep saying contracts or crummy, but maybe I’m over over overemphasizing that part of it. So, um, you know, I’m not giving you carte blanche about believing leading but ah, deputized you get the idea. So, Dio where where should we start with this? But I

[00:40:54.78] spk_4:
think I’ve loved going on that we talked a little bit about, you know, some of the some of the terminology. And in my favorite phrase, lily that I learned from you that I’d love to have you talk about today is meat or beach. The the rates. So I’m not gonna be tony, because I could never be tony. But But it would be great for you to just share a little bit about the didactic ce that we were hoping to present

[00:41:23.16] spk_1:
our tactics. That’s a big word. Or see, I would never use that on. Believe me, you don’t want to be tony. It’s no place to be. Um, all

[00:41:32.28] spk_4:
right, how about definition of terms? How about that?

[00:41:35.31] spk_1:
Okay. No, didactic is wonderful. No, um, the only thing we have to bear in mind is we’re doing this in about 25 minutes. Okay? Roughly. Okay. Please go ahead. Really

[00:44:37.04] spk_3:
great. Yeah. So I think I think that’s a great point, Maureen. And I think this is often, you know, one of the first places where nonprofits run into questions on dhe feel a little bit stuck is when they’re talking to potential vendors. Often you’re talking Teoh, a digital tools provider or digital C R M. And and that’s where the payments piece of the conversation comes up is OK. What what payment provider you’re going to use with your online contribution forms may be your A digital vendor has a payment provider they work with. Maybe they have an insurer. Maybe they have, like an in house team it provider that they kind of built, and that’s that’s their offering. Maybe there’s a whole bunch of different processors that you can integrate with, Um, and I think that’s often a non profits first. Start running into these questions, and it’s hard to understand sort of the different the different pieces that you need lined up to make sure you can successfully profit contributions online alone with, You know, obviously the vendor that’s providing you’re helping you build your online contribution forms. You need a merchant account. Eso you’re gonna need a merchant account provider, which is a vendor that helps that will set up that account for you, into which you can accept donors purchase or donations online. Um, money from that merchant count will go right into your normal bank account, but it always has to a first into a merchant account that’s just sort of part of online credit card processing. That merchant account also needs a payment gateway, and this is again where it can get a little confusing For some nonprofits. Many providers can be both your payment gateway it and you’re merchant account provider. But some are not some vendors or just a payment gateway or just a merchant account provider on nothing that you know your digital tools better should be able to help you navigate that conversation. They should be able to tell you what your options are there and help you understand what you know, what accounts you might need to go out and get and help set up that conversation for you and then that merchant account and that being the gateway or at the end of the day, gonna be connecting to a payment processor. That’s the service that actually accepts the transaction, authorizes it with the credit card provider and provides a response to you and again that could be yet another vendor or it can be a part of one of those other kind of two pieces that I already mention the team, a gateway in the merchant account that’s more in the weeds than nonprofits typically need to get. Usually again, you can go to a digital service is provider like every action that can help. You kind of figure out which of those pieces you need to worry about. But those are just some terms that are often gonna come up, and it can be a little bit confusing in those initial conversations. Um, and all of those tie into the pricing fact. Ah, factor here because obviously it’s a boring allude to kind of the more vendors you have in the chain of your payment processing. Each one of those vendors is taking their own piece of every transaction. So the more vendors that you have there, but the more you have to kind of think about that and make sure you understand what fees are being taken out of each point. So again, the more you can kind of work with one provider, and they can just give you one clear fee that ties everything together. It makes it a little bit easier for you to understand what you’re actually letting from those contributions. At the end of the day,

[00:45:06.89] spk_1:
I’ve been binge watching The Sopranos, and they would call that the the big That’s right. Every three, every different level level of vendor gets, gets their big

[00:45:12.68] spk_3:
Exactly. Yeah, that’s pretty much pretty much for payment. Processing is. Unfortunately, it’s, you know, there’s one transaction and there’s just lots of little pieces that get split out to lots of different people.

[00:45:22.94] spk_1:
All right, hopefully the consequences of not quite as grave sopranos if you don’t pay your

[00:45:27.63] spk_3:
yes, hopefully,

[00:45:31.09] spk_1:
um, all right, so, Marine, please jump in. Well,

[00:45:35.75] spk_4:
one of the things

[00:45:36.69] spk_1:
that our definition of time one of

[00:45:38.71] spk_4:
the places that this gets rial for non profits, and I know it got real for Christina was, if you’ve got sustaining donors, so let’s say you’re using a system that is connected to your online fundraising system. It’s one tool, and so you’ve got You’ve built up these monthly donors for years, right? We’ve all really worked hard to get our sustainer programs up and running and healthy, but when you move, those transactions need to go somewhere and continue to be processed if you stopped. And you said, Hey, all my monthly sustainer is I want you to go sign up again on my new donation form. You could lose up to 75 or higher percent of those monthly gifts. So you’re sort of starting that program over again? Christina needed to spend quite a bit of time thinking about this in her move. So I love to hear Cristina tell her sustain sustainer story.

[00:47:26.14] spk_5:
Sure. So we actually did have our sustain er’s spread out. Unfortunately, since our program is pretty established, this happened. Unfortunately, before I, um, started working at it Neera. But we had it in them in three different places, um, two of which were easily migrate herbal, and one of which we had Teoh speak with the donors, and it was only about 40 people. So it wasn’t so bad out of our, like, 500 plus, um, monthly donors. So we had to tell them Hey, we’re moving up opportunities system, and unfortunately, we can’t migrate you over there, so we’re gonna have to cancel your gift, and will you please restart? So, um, it was a little frustrating trying to get in touch with all of all three of those and figure out how to do that. But, um, in the end, we got it done, and it was It was fine. And it was much easier than having people start and restart.

[00:47:34.48] spk_1:
Did you? Did you find a lot of attrition?

[00:47:39.78] spk_5:
Um, it wasn’t so bad. Yeah, it was okay.

[00:47:42.85] spk_1:
All right. It wasn’t the 75 or more percent that Maureen said is possible,

[00:48:21.03] spk_5:
right? I think because the majority of ours were in a system that were easily able Teoh migrate from one Teoh the other, We didn’t really have any problems. And we had previously a credit card up of data, um, with them. So those credit cards were ready, ready to go, and we had no problem moving them over. There were a couple, I want to say a handful of people with a CH monthly donations and those are easy enough to move over as well because those never expire. Um, that’s

[00:48:21.86] spk_1:
coming from their bank accounts, right?

[00:48:35.21] spk_5:
Right. Yes. Sorry, but I think there’s a lot of those 40 people are 47 people that we had Teoh to worry about, and I think where we were able to get a little over half of them to restart their gifts, so we were really happy about that.

[00:48:38.46] spk_4:
But everybody else, the lion share kind of got somebody came in with very protective gloves on, kind of, because that’s that’s data that the non profit doesn’t want. You know they don’t want to store the credit card. They don’t want to store this the, um, the Cvv, because that’s banking information and no non profit anywhere, I think, has the security in place that they need to actually keep that locked down. So that’s where Lily and her team kind of came in and helped to facilitate the transfer of that protected data from where it waas in Christina’s legacy system into the new the new database.

[00:49:56.97] spk_2:
Time for our last break turn to communications relationships. The world runs on them. We all know this. If you’re a fundraiser, you especially know it turn to is led by former journalists so that you’ll get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you’d like to be heard so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field. They specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo. We’ve got but loads more time for be a payment processing pro.

[00:50:54.64] spk_3:
This is a definitely an area where I would encourage people to actually dig in a little bit more on that payment processor contract, because it’s really important that you make sure that you own your data, especially when it comes to sustain Er’s. And it’s as boring said. You don’t want to be storing that data. You don’t want to be storing the credit card numbers because there’s a lot of security PC I compliance concerns that come along with that. But you do want to make sure that at the end of the day, if you walk away from a vendor Onda payments provider that you can take that deal with you. And we say that data, really, what we’re meaning by that is the credit card tokens. So it’s the secure token that represents the credit card number, and as long as you have in your contract that you own that data, you should be able to work with your current under. If you ever are transitioning off of them to have them securely, send that data to your new vendor, your new payment provider, and they will re token, eyes it into another secure soak in that lives in their system and can then be charged to your new vendor. So that’s kind of the process of migrating sustainer is over. And so it’s really important that you make sure that at the end of the day, you are the one that owns that data. Obviously, it can still be a little bit of pulling teeth to get the thunder that you’re leaving to feel incentivised to give it to you. But you want to make sure that you know that you have that

[00:51:25.46] spk_1:
right? So So that’s there’s terminology. There’s language should say language in the contract that will specify who owns. Is this organized data?

[00:51:27.92] spk_3:
Exactly, exactly. And that’s something again where if you’re depending on kind of a model that your digital tools provider has, they can often kind of answer that question for you because it’s often written into their contract with the femur provider that they partner with eso. It’s often not something that you know. The non profit themselves has to, you know, get out there. Ah, red pen and they go through the contract for. But it’s a question you want to make sure you’re asking.

[00:51:52.11] spk_1:
Okay, Lily, do you feel like this is something that a new organization should have an attorney review? These different agreements? Or is that is that you don’t think is necessary?

[00:52:46.15] spk_3:
I mean, I don’t ever want to say you shouldn’t have been assured the review a contract before you sign it. Um, you know, I think I think again, this is where it depends a little bit on how much a non profit is going out and contracting for the service is on their own versus how much they’re going through a provider. If you know, for example, if you’re working with a digital vendor that kind of handles payments in a house, this would likely be part of your contract with vendor, as opposed to a contract with an external payment provider. A lot of digital vendors don’t handle humans and house, but then partner with someone who does, and so they can kind of help you through that process a little bit. But is it a best practice, you know, Probably have having attorney. Look at it. I would say, Yeah, it was saying this.

[00:52:58.15] spk_1:
Any advice on how we know whether the fees that were being charged are within a normal range?

[00:53:00.91] spk_3:
Yeah, that is a great question. Um, so

[00:53:04.07] spk_1:
we’ve got a good morning. Okay? Medicine. All right.

[00:55:41.12] spk_3:
Um, yes. So the first thing I would say about pricing and is that there are different models. There’s kind of three main models that you’re going to see when it comes to payment processing fees. So the first is a flat rate. This is the easiest for anyone to understand. It is We’re gonna get charged X person and X number of sense on every transaction, no matter what. That’s obviously you know, it’s it’s very straightforward. It’s easy to calculate that, um, there’s also gonna be a tiered pricing model. And a tier pricing model is meant to kind of take into account the fact that different transactions do have different fees associated with them. Um, so when a human is processed online, uh, the credit card fees are gonna vary and a very pretty significantly, depending on a number of factors. Eso There’s what’s called interchange interchanges. Basically, the combination of fees that credit card companies charge there’s they’re gonna very depending on the credit card provider they’re gonna do very depending on the type of card. For example, rewards cards have a very big effect on processing fees. It’s actually why a lot of folks have seen their processing fees go up is because is more and more and more of us have rewards cards. Those usually incur higher processing fee. So this this kind of why instead of seas and it’s hundreds of different categories for disease, it makes up what’s called interchange. And so the tiered pricing model is usually mention to kind of it. To account for that, it’ll usually mean that there’s, you know, maybe three buckets or so where the femur provider has kind of taken every possible interchange, price and category, and it’s put it in one of these three buckets, and they charge a different rate. Based on that, it’s still not exactly what the credit card company is charging for that colored, but it it kind of balances that out more as opposed it a flat rate, which is just one number, and it’s sometimes the providers actually gonna be losing money on that transaction because they’ve had to pay more than that to the credit card company to charge it. In some cases, they’re gonna be making money on it. They just sort of, you know, they find what they think is a balancing between. Okay, and then the third model. It’s called Interchange Plus on. But that basically means is that your provider is just passing on those credit card company fees directly to you. And then they’re adding on some percentage for their own profit. That one. There’s a certain used to it and that you know exactly what you’re paying that provider. They’re not obscuring that profit for you. Um, but it’s also very hard to predict because obviously, again, interchange fees from the credit card companies very on every transaction. So you don’t You don’t know what you’re gonna pay on any transaction until it happens.

[00:56:14.48] spk_1:
Okay, Lily, if you ever leave every action, you have a niche consulting practice with payments transferrable to a private practice. Maureen, What else? What else? We

[00:56:22.53] spk_4:
way. I’d love to get Kristina to speak a little bit about those ranges and fees because you were using, as you said, a mix of different processors at a narrow before you major big move. And I think you saw awesome rial fluctuation between digital tool provider. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:48.13] spk_5:
So we were using 1/3 party, a peer to peer tool, um, whose prices were or their their fees were a lot higher than our main processor. So we definitely wanted to get away from that, Um, went looking at any system, and we also just wanted to find something. Of course, that was all of one. So we wouldn’t have to worry about having so many different processing fees for all these different types of tools. So, um, it’s another thing to consider to, um So, yeah. I mean, because we those 40 people that we had to cancel, they were kind of a mystery, and it took us a while to hunt them down. I don’t I’m not even sure what those processing fees were because they were just in there for so long and, like, had transferred over to, like, our old system. So, um, but yeah, I think I think what? You know, when we were looking for a new system, we wanted to find something because we were happy with our current processing fees. And so we wanted again something that either you know, meter beat, type of thing that we were saying before. Um um, Plus, you know, what are the things that you really like? Like the credit card update? Our was something we had to have. And then we also you did something that offered different pain and types as well. So, like, apple pay pay, pal, You know all the major credit cards. Um, so, yeah, that was that was an important thing for us.

[00:59:13.53] spk_3:
And that’s a really great point that you bring up to. Is that all those kind of additional things that you’re talking about? The other payment types, credit card update or card account update? Er, those often comes with visas. Well, they may be monthly, set up fees, then maybe per transaction fees. But they made very a ch, for example, different feed and credit cards. Typically. So those are all kind of questions you wanna ask when you think about you know, what are the must have features when it comes to my own life fund raising and my peanut processing? Make a list of those and then go talk to every vendor that you’re talking to and find out what the fees are for those because it’s really easy for blunders, especially on the reason that flat rate model you just hear what number and you’re like, Great, that’s that’s in the range I want to be in like I’m good and it’s it’s easy to like, not realize kind of all these other things that may seek in there. So it’s good to kind of get that get together. A list of questions when asked the same questions of every 100 it might be talking to, um, and there’s a fair amount you confined, you know, even honestly, just doing a quick Google search for some of the processors that you may know of names that you’ve heard in the past or vendors that you’ve worked with. You can often see some pricing information right on their site. It’s not necessarily gonna tell you everything, but if you’re just kind of looking for a ballpark, that could be helpful as well. And non profit should also know that some writers are able to give them discounted rates as non profit. So that’s always you should ask.

[01:00:41.14] spk_4:
Yeah, I think this is one of those those places where nobody owns it inside an organization, you know? Does your CFO or your accounts payable person own it? Does your operations person own it? Just someone like Christina was managing all the digital fundraising. Own it. Um, So the first step, whether you’re moving or not, is to kind of huddle eternally and tap someone to be the person who’s going to own this, learn about it and kind of Carrie Carrie. Things forward, re negotiate or influence rates when you’re when you’re moving. There’s just a lot of people switching systems. Right now, there’s a ton of different products on the market, and this is one of those things that you think you know. Like Lily says. You ask your questions, you check all your boxes and then six months in. You have this horrible discovery because I’ve raised X, but only why has hit my bank account. And now what do I dio? So it’s It’s a good thing to pay attention to, even if you don’t quite know what to ask, you’re not quite sure how to go about it. At least start the conversation internally, and then you’re a little bit more empowered to go talk with your your payment processor or your tool provider.

[01:01:16.49] spk_5:
I know another thing for us was the ability to process international donations as well. So, having knowing what they’re, um, what kind of security measures they take to for that as well, and then like, how easy is it for people to donate, if their overseas, whether they’re, you know, us people traveling overseas or residents or citizens that are living in other countries,

[01:01:18.84] spk_3:
I think a great way to think about it is kind of like inventory, what your current system is doing and what you’re program looks like today and then think about where do we want to grow our program? Where do we want for him to be in a year or two years? And, you know, maybe I talked to a lot of people, for example, who they want to get more into international fund raising. They’re not doing it now, but it’s a goal. What? That’s a goal. You should make sure that you’re thinking about that. When you switch to a new vendor or payment provider. Make sure that’s making supports that as you grow your organization you could help meet those goals and that you’re working with a provider that can help you do that.

[01:01:55.71] spk_1:
Right, Marine? Uh, you think Anything else pressing?

[01:01:57.98] spk_4:
I feel like we without getting into the super Weeds, E I think we’re there. I think we got it.

[01:02:34.60] spk_1:
Okay, then, uh, we’re gonna wrap it up there. All right? Thank you. Thanks. Thanks to all three of you. And I know you reach well and safe in your own locations. I’m very glad of that. I’m glad we were able to get together. Um, it’s Christina Snore, director of digital fundraising for American Near East Refugee Aid a nera Billy I, co vice president of payments and online fundraising and future payment processing consultant. Uh, she’s currently remaining at every action. Is

[01:02:40.48] spk_3:
a guest as CEO. Something that,

[01:02:42.44] spk_1:
um, and Marine will be off non profit digital strategist and technology coach. Practical wisdom for non profit accidental techies. Marine, this was unprecedented that I had a co host in any show. Um, I don’t know exactly. Well, we’re and I do know exactly I’m like your 480 or so 500 is coming up in July. I’ve been doing this 10 years never had a co host.

[01:03:04.64] spk_4:
I am honored. I’m

[01:03:06.80] spk_1:
absolutely I knew I could trust you from from your contribution first, The first session yesterday. So but don’t get carried away. Don’t come back.

[01:03:15.05] spk_4:
I won’t let it go to my head. And

[01:03:17.04] spk_1:
you know weekly. Not quarterly. Not semiannual. Carried away. All right.

[01:03:22.01] spk_4:
Sounds good. Alright,

[01:03:23.96] spk_1:
Thanks, Teoh. Thank you. Especially Maureen. Thanks to all three of you

[01:03:47.20] spk_2:
next week, let’s have more 20 and TC smartness. If you missed any part of today’s show you know what I beseech you Find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and by turned to communications, PR and content for non profits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo.

[01:04:16.02] spk_1:
Our creative producer is clear. Meyer shows social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy. And this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn with me next week for not profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great

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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent of your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I grow is Anthill asthma. If I saw that you missed today’s show, Google advance our nineteen ninety seats channel, including the head of Google. Add grants will improve the quality of your Google ads campaigns and get your website Google Analytics and Google ads working together. The share lots of valuable resource is they are Michael Rasco from Rasco Digital Marketing. Jason King certified Add grantspace, Sessional and Michelle, Her Tato from Google and the twenty nineteen Digital Outlook Report This nineteen ninety seats Channel. Eleanor Francis, Charlie Jarrett and Jennifer Jones. Ingram helps you get better at peer-to-peer Facebook team cross training and adapting text tech to your mission. Elena and Charlie are with H J. C and Jennifer. Is that care, too? On Tony State to nuclear missiles? We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuing by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers witness cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to four four, four nine, nine nine. Here is Google Add grants. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen. Ninety c. You know where we are? You know what this is? It’s the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. We’re in Portland, Oregon, at the Convention Center. All our nineteen ninety seon reviews are brought to you by our partners that act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Our panel now is Michael Rasco, Jason King and Michelle hyre latto. Michael is seated next to me. He’s the owner of nasco Digital Marketing. Jason King is Google at grants certified professional. And he works under Jason King for Jason King with Jason King and Michelle Heart. Otto is the head of Google at grants at Google. It sounds like there is no higher authority on Google at grants. Deshele mamatoto in the world got a brilliant Okay, Absolutely. All right, well, we got the got the senior people here. All right, Beat. My voice is cracked. Um, there are some new policies new Google at grant policies. Is that right? That, uh, non-profit need to comply with? I was gonna start with you, Michelle. This’s our policies not nothing this year, but we are still, you know, helping the industry get used. Tio r changes. We have noticed historically that a lot of folks use Google I grants to get exposure. But there’s so much more to digital ads, it’s about effectiveness in terms of your goals. So we’ve put out a series of policies last year that will actually guide all of our non-profits and know what to do on a regular basis in their account to remain more proactive and get better results on DH, we’re gonna help them to comply with Yeah, yeah. We’ve been on a road show for the last year and here we are still today. So glad to be able to meet with more and more of our number on your road show has culminated Brought you to this day non-profit radio. Everyone does not have this privilege today way about thirty people know. Well, maybe twenty five thirty people have this privilege today and we’re grateful to be among some. I could tell Michael, think back and see your the enthusiasm you says with great sarcasm. Okay, um, let’s just make sure that everybody there’s a baseline among all listeners. Some people may not know. Michael. I’m Jason. Why don’t you explain what Google at grants is a two high level. So everybody’s on the same page about what the offer is. Okay. Oh, non-profits can get free in-kind donation of advertising up to the value of ten thousand dollars per month so they can promote their websites, their services, their offerings on information when people searching Google for information. Um okay, yeah, in some. I mean, we’ve offered nine billion dollars over the last sixteen years. Google had. This is the first film topic program that will ever offered its directly aligned with our mission. It Google to organize the world’s information. Non-profits have a ton of valuable information to get out there. You are well on the founding team of this sixteen years ago, Tio Michael, what would you like to add to our to our overview as we as we get started? Yeah, I’d like to add to what Jason said is is the way this tool really works is it gets people to your website when they’re searching something relevant to what you do, even if they’ve never heard of you. Because the way Google ads, works eyes based on a keyword system where you bid on terms you want to rank form. And if you’re part of this program, it could put you up much higher on the Google search results, and you’re non-profit could get more Web traffic on DH. As Michele was saying, You know, it doesn’t end at Web traffic. It’s also about what they do when they get to your website. So it’s super valuable to non-profits. Okay, um, let’s dive intothe policies that non-profits need to be onboard, resolutely compliant with so that they are participating properly. And I don’t know what happens if, if you don’t, you get your ad grants. Damn campaign deactivated. Think always the optimistic it could come back. And I know in fact, you’re here at NTC helping people on a account by account basis like what happened right? You’re okay. There’s bloody hell. There’s plenty of help available as well. So if somebody does get their account suspended, they just have to phone up. Google has support. There’s a very useful advertisers forum they can use on. There’s plenty of eyes to help them get back into compliance, get their accounts working better than before. Okay. I didn’t mean to scare everybody away, Shin, but away from the program. But, uh, but we do need to deal with the fact that there are some things you gotta comply with. So Michael wanted Teo kick us off. What? Trump would top problem area or two. Do you see among among non-profits And how can we help him? Yeah, I can answer that. But I also think that might be better for Michelle because Michelle has more information about from working at Google. What? What The suspensions are I have clients. Yeah, I’ve clients. Lam. Oftentimes it’s It’s ah quality score, Click through rate and incorrect Geo. Targeting are some of the ones that I see when non-profits come to me with an account that’s been suspended and I help them get reactivated. Okay, You want a liberal is just typically, you know, digital marketing is very different than traditional marketing. It is super responsive. It is super relevant. What someone searching for and consumers these days are more and more demanding, You know, like because of the internet coming along and super computers in our pockets I mean, people expect very relevant results instantly and very personalized what they what they want. So we’ve seen non-profits. You generally taking advantage of the opportunity to say Okay, well, of course I want to show up. I have a very powerful mission that I want to get across, and they put out a starter campaign, if you will. And it’s just different because digital requires an ongoing maintenance. Teo improve it overtime. And that’s that’s kind of the key elements of the policies is that we’re telling you. OK, overtime. You have to keep checking on latto rate and maintain your account. You have to have fresh content in your Web site. You know, you should make sure that your that your quality is high enough because if you don’t, if you don’t have good quality. Google’s ranking system is very much based on the user’s votes, essentially as clicks on Google dot coms results. And so if you get off to a bad start with low quality, it’s really hard to make to work your way back up. So we just want to make sure the non-profits hoo hoo join us in our program and all are welcome as soon as long. They’re just they need to be a little more prepared up front. So you’re kind of put out like the’s air. The expectations of front minimum viable. Okay, okay, let’s let’s talk about some more of them on Michael mentioned Joe, look atyou, Say incorrect Geo location. Yeah, so the something’s out of date like, well, location wise. It’s about setting the locations. You target your advertisements for two places that are relevant to your organization because a lot of organizations they are too broad on DH. There is a requirement by Google that you only focus on people that are relevant to your organization. Okay, it’s time for a break. Pursuant. The art of First Impressions had a combined strategy, analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. The e book is shorter than the title that’s there. Ah, e book on donor acquisition, of course. And how to make a smashing first impression on your potential donors. It’s at Tony dahna slash pursuant capital P for please to get to that listener landing page. Now back to Google ad grants. You just Yeah, relevancy is kind of the heart of it, apart from only showing hands that are relevant to the right locations is about targeting the right audience generally with the right key words, and then showing them the right page on the website, keeping everything relative to the needs of the person who expressed a need for information in the first place when they searched on Google. You’re trying to get the most relevant information to the person with the most precise need for your offering on one of the problems I see is that often they convey ear off their mission of it on. They need to stay focused on their offering when their advertising Okay, uh, let’s let’s shift a little bit on DH. Suppose we don’t yet have a have not yet taken advantage of Google at grounds Where where do we go? Toe start our campaign first, you’d have to Google us, Teo, get him set a Google addresses the program, and then we would guide you through a very lengthy campaign set up guide that would tell you how to walk through the jungle. Adds interface. Is this something that non-profit could do without experts like Michael and Jason? It certainly is. I mean, we walk you through it, but But we do highly recommend experts in this field. There’s a very Jason said There’s a way Maybe we should walk through some of that about the resource is that are available, you know when? OK, if we’re gonna get started on a campaign and help you know what, What’s available? So, for example, thiss last these this past year and a half or so we’ve been Certainly we’ve been doing a lot of events speaking and doing workshops, like when we hear it at ten. You know, that’s always a debate, like we wanna have, like, a really inspiring message. But we also want to have a kind of workshop, you know, help you learn on the ground like we’re here right here with you. And we’ve got our team here today in orderto actually optimize your accounts way. Also have a YouTube channel that has a ton of content on how to do this or that, or just have an overview. We also, you know, policy overview video as well. But it just like if you if you’re going to start, I recommend that you go to our YouTube channel and learn for like, one hour just watching overviewing of how it has set up an account. Um, we also have a If you want to get started, you have to set it up on your own. But then if you if you can’t work with a professional at this time, we also have a program where we partner with universities who are have students engaged in marketing lessons like they’re learning digital marketing and they need a field study. So we are offer you a way. Tio set up a match with a student team for four to six weeks or so they’LL walk through your goals and make sure they understand your organization. Put out a couple campaigns and then optimize it for you over the course of four to six weeks. And hopefully you’ll be in a whole lot better shape like that. Okay, there’s a bunch of resource option. Okay, Four. So, um all right, so now we’ve we’ve started our initial campaign. Andi, I understand the lesson that you need to keep it up to date current. It’s got a fresh content on your side. Uh, on relevant. How can we wait? We get to the next level, so we want a little higher quality. Jason, can you help us get from the first six months of our campaign? Teo now, we don’t know. Is it possible to spend ten thousand dollars a month in the beginning? Yeah, maybe. Maybe you’re being a little frivolous if you give your starting. If you’re out of the gate in ten thousand, you’re probably doing something wrong. I’m guessing it should be. Really Well, it shouldn’t really be the main focus of what you’re attempting to do. I mean, you mean spend all the money? Yeah. Spend it. Spent. All the money is not the objective. Because you spend all of the money when ineffective at present, completely worthless campaign. Sure, thie objectives should be instead to set up what they call goals and conversion tracking. So you’re tracking what people actually do. The actions they take on the website and for this to work, the website has to be set up. So technically well, they have somebody has to be a to go toe page on the website. This useful to them and taken action like filling in a contact for me, and that needs to be trackable on the website. So in order to get Google. That’s a kind of working. Well, you really need the website to function. You need gogo athletics. I presume you could do. Yeah, you do this tribunal. I think that’s the most efficient way to have the two working together now. Absolutely. Answer these. Get measure these things that you’re talking about. Yeah. You need the website, the contact management system, money working with analytics. Also working with Google ads. But also, you need to have, in your own mind quite well defined. Idea of what your objectives are. What you want people to do on DH. Then focus on that and not spend. Yeah, ofcourse. You’re focused on your call to action. I was just asking isat possible. Sure. It’s possible to squander a lot of money, but not not. Not wise. Okay. So, Michael, then s o we’re after are six months now. We’ve got in place what Michelle and Jason have explained. What’s your advice for getting to the next level? Want to be a little more sophisticated? Yeah, honestly, my advice is almost the exact same as Jason’s is. It’s about conversion. So when you want to take it to the next level, like I said it’s a great way to get people to your site because it’s responsive to search term. So it’LL put you towards the top of Google search results if you’re doing hyre all the things correctly in your account. But once they get to your website, you’ve got to really take a close look at what they do, what they do and what versus what you want them to do. Yeah, absolutely. So So maybe in the second in the second six months, maybe have some different goals? Yeah, that might be it might be some of the same goals with a hyre measure, or you might have different goals. Maybe initially, it was just getting someone to feed O. R. Look, a data visualization of the impact that you’re making in your local in your state. And now we’re in. In our second six months, we want to start recruiting volunteers. So first we just want exposure. Now we want some volunteers. I actually redesigned that. I’d say you should go on volunteers from the get go, and then after six months, based on what you originally planned, you should look at it and say what would well what went wrong. And when you look, look at what went well, try to bolster that. When you look at what went wrong. Try to understand why it went wrong in a limerick and eliminate it. But you should have, you know, pretty ambitious goals from the get go. But also, you know, restrained expectations because it’s an ongoing learning process of how this works. Okay, so that’s that’s why I’m not a CEO of a non-profit. Lackluster, lackluster goals had best not modest, lackluster, modest is too polite, lackluster goals. So initially. All right, so we want volunteers in the first six months. What are some of the things that you see? Well, we did. Maybe Maybe this may be the same answer, but some of the things that are going wrong, what’s going right? What are some of the things that you see going wrong? What I see going wrong? A lot is just too broad. In our session yesterday, we talked a lot about how to focus things towards your audience and when you add keywords into your account and this might get a little more technical for listeners who are just starting. But we’LL make you define your terms. Don’t weigh, have jargon Jail on non-profit radio charge in jail on there’s plenty of room. There are plenty of cells. This’s not what this is. It’s minimum security, but there’s a lot of capacity. Eso. One thing that often happens is when you type a keyword by default, it’s broad match. And when you have a broad match keyword that you’re bidding on, you could get a lot of impressions for things on ly loosely related to what you do and you want, like run. Yeah, I suppose. I suppose I’m now we’re switching goals and I’m tryingto recruit participants for a five K run walk. And I bet on the word run that might be a mistake. That would be a mistake. It’s also mistake because there’s another compliance rules where you can’t have a key word. That’s a single word. Key word. Oh my God, kruckel participate in this program. So So providing. Of course, I’m just kidding. I’ll provide you the example you in yesterday’s monisha, which is less glasses for sale glasses. Khun B. A lot of different things. So if you’re selling eyeglasses, you need to be very specific that they’re eyeglasses? Because if you just throw out the term glasses for sale, your martinis martignetti fashion glasses. Exactly. And those people will get impressions and shower doors. Stop, Stop! No, no. You guys really going? Yeah, you get it shows you get it. You can keep going. And so often times, you know what I see is ways to improve is being more specific. OK, OK, So for those of you who are out there already with an account, one of the biggest tips we would ask is check your monthly search terms report monthly. You know, just actually, that’s the difference of telling you where your ads actually showed up. For what did people type into google dot com And you’LL get a lot of insight there about things that you want to add to your key wordless and also to take away what’s caldnear give key words. It’s another piece of jargon. Um, Michelle, you’re probably you’re thinking person to ask. I was at a pan. I was in a interviewing a panel yesterday and someone said this was a digression. Probably caused by me. Have trouble focusing another reason. Another CEO of anything. I have to work for myself. These are when you when you’ve just met the good, glad grants you’re getting was residual something. You’re getting residual something’s or something. Eso is going back to Jason’s point about tracking. You know, we we can understand if you’ve set it up. What happens after someone clicks on to your site? You know, you want to make sure that they don’t like fifty percent of people just kind of bounce right off of the the site. Unfortunately, I remember I’m sorry that I was a little more context question. No, no, it was The suggestion was that it may be better for you to spend money even even if you still haven’t exhausted your ten thousand dollars free grant because it get it, get it different kind of. You might. It might be worth spending a hundred dollars if you see something Doing well for free, Get a different kind of a different kind of ranking or so. Yeah, we’re at duitz earlier was you. You’LL actually have more conversions, and we can track, but that’s a different story. Okay, this we’re talking about makes good sense. You don’t know what I’m talking about. No, no. You do actually, cause a lot of people actually make this mistake, assuming that you can’t have a paid account when you have a cool at Gran’s account, you Ken and I would wrap So you realize it because you’LL get a whole lot more volume. Hey, glad Grant’s offers. Even the positions like that are after the paying advertising messages called Residual Remnants Way. So we offer non-profits all of the space that’s available after paying advertisers. So sometimes for really competitive queries, there is no space left. But that being said, I would just say use at grants for figuring out what works for you and then when something works for you, then you could be really sure not take too many risks with opening up a paid account and doing really well there. Okay, also, there’s a display. If you wanted me to cover, just play video. Jason. Yeah, I was just going to have one point first. If you don’t mind that, I’ve I’ve known some non-profits. I think most non-profits Khun benefit from an ad grand for certain, but there are occasionally some particularly something say, like a CD. If I there’s some financial organization, CDF I, Charlie Delta Foxtrot. Indio. What? Do I put a quarter in the jug and swear books? No, no. It’s much more punitive than that. Ho ho, but okay. Their community development, financial institutions there that there was some types of non-profits where they are in competition, not just with other non-profits for advertising, but also we have, say, businesses. And really, they can add grantmaker not perform for them. And it is good to run that to do the grand as an experiment. But if it doesn’t work, and that’s because of the level of competition out there and then the paid account might be better for them. Okay. And Michelle, what were you asking matter-ness with that? We offer search ads. But there’s also video ads, for example, an image ads that are also really useful for getting for raising awareness for non-profits. Those are only for paid accounts. Yeah, okay. Okay. I mean, there’s only so far you could go on for your gun. It’s gotta be limits this thing a thousand dollars. Enough is all right, Michael, we have heard from you for a while. What you want? What you want to add here that we haven’t talked about yet. You did? Seventy five. You did seventy five minutes and way. We’ve only been at this for twenty minutes and forty three cents. I know. It seems like counting down there, like eighteen hours between twenty minutes. I could talk all day about this stuff. Just, you know, thinking that long. If you’re just looking for, like, what I wantto say that hasn’t been said yet is get started Something relevant, you know, once. One thing. One thing I hear a lot from non-profits is that they they heard about this, you know, years ago. And they haven’t gotten started yet. And I think, you know, the hardest part is getting started. Like like Michelle said, there are some things you need to learn before you apply, but this money is on in-kind amount and its use it or lose it. So the earlier you get started the better. Because if you dragged your feet for a few years, you’ve missed out on all that money you could have gotten It doesn’t get, um, loaded into your account later. Okay, That would be an ideal place to stop, But we have more time. I have a show on way. Have time with their policies around this show way Don’t stop twenty two minutes because I got two half hour segment show. So we’re gonna do We got too few more minutes. So what have we not have covered? I have Ah, are be proactive. Section be proactive. Okay, Jason, you got something there, Michelle? You want to start? Michelle just mentioned dynamic search ads. This is money. I find one of the simplest techniques to actually set up in a good Glamoc count. Eats Guns are very effective when you first start your campaigns because it fills in all the gaps in your advertising that enables Google to decide to show glassed inside to show an add even if you haven’t created one for that specific purpose yourself. So it’s kind of like you just a little more about this. Flush this out for us? Yeah. I don’t get it. It kind of automated is the normal. You right in there. Did you choose some keywords us and takes for that ad on? If people search for words similar to that, then your ads get shown that adds has shown up with the dark. Yeah, but with Dynamic sir chance. It works a little differently, even if you I haven’t chosen he worse and you haven’t got an ad for this topic already. Google might, based on what it knows about your website and all the pages on it might just decide to show an ad, and it writes most of the ant text for you. It’s kind of you have to You have to leave it to a certain amount of trust that you will write a good ad for some time. It does. It’s a very effective technique when you first start advertising, but it’s worth a try on most accounts. So it’s dynamic surgeons, and that’s something you select in your throughout the process. In the process of creating, you’re you’re absolutely When when you’ve created a campaign you can create in and prove like, Yeah, you know, you could write an ad group within that campaign and you make the ad group dynamic search. Okay, okay. If you and your trusting Googled radio appropriate at and it’s so simple to do, it’s a quick and easy win it on, and it could end up bringing a lot more visitors to your website that you boys would never go. Okay, But it’s not entirely trust either, because we provide tons of data back to you in the interface every time that we run that. And so you’LL be able to see exactly what what it’s working for you, what’s not. And that’s kind of the whole point, Tio. What brings us back full circle is that that’s the beauty of digital, as is that you get so much more information than putting out a billboard or something, you actually get it, and then you have to act on it to make it better. Yeah, I’ve had a couple of channels where they’ve lamented the social sites that don’t share data, including Facebook, when donation has made through Facebook on the data that the non-profit does not get back on. Actually, the recommendation was used Facebook to drive people to your own site and then and then have a streamlined process for making a donation there. Where you where you can ask the info that you need on Not yeah, not not be without it from your donor data, we’ve We’ve got a glance with good lads. I think you get more data than you could even handle. Sometimes there are so many more columns of metrics you can add to your screen. People unaware ofthe. There’s an immense amount of data you can get from it. I was saying to Michelle that one of my top tips for people is by the biggest widest monitor you can possibly afford if were to have two next to side by side to widescreen thirty two inch monitors aside, if you’re doing this stuff, but you raise a very good point and we have we have a couple minutes left. Uh, so what? You touched on this? Yes, yesterday just on this earlier. Uh, but what? What are the key member there? Maybe three. Four key top metrics that you should be paying attention to in your first six months in your first year. Maybe they’re the same ones you ticked off earlier, but I’d like to hear them again. Shoretz human-centered Check. What should we be looking at? Level Most important. Should we each name one or shall I do for you? Do two. I’LL do two So I just chose that because you said one or force I signed to one or two out of three. Yeah, the two is Click through rate and quality score, and that was the quality score. So there’s a quality score. The quality score is a number from one to ten. That is Google’s estimation of how relevant your key word is to the rest of your content. Specifically, your advertisement again, your landing base that you send them. Let’s make sure everybody knows what click through rate is. Click through basics to you, but it’s so good through rate is a percentage value of clicks divided by impression. So impressions is a viewing. Seeing viewing of your ads because in action taken so for recovery. If you get five clicks for every hundred times it’s seen, your click through rate is five percent precisely, Jason, you got one or two top metrics that Michael did not previously mentioned. Well, I’m actually going to repeat the one he did mention. I have not to do that. That’s why I’m doing it. Their policies are not proper radio way. I trust you to keep me clear. The Google ads Grant’s policies can’t adhere to the simple non-profit radio balls. Go ahead, anarchist. Okay, on the quality of school that Michael mentioned is broken down into the landing page experience and the ad relevance. Now, I think these two extremely useful because if you find that some of your ass and your gear is not working, you can look at these and you might find that your ad relevance is really high. In which case you’re writing a good ad, Yes, but you might find the landing page. Experience is really low, and that’s a clear to you that saying your ads agree your website is rubbish on the landing page that you’re providing people is not okay or vice versa. I find it useful for just diagnosing what the issue is. Vice versa. Right? Okay, Michelle, you I’ll give you my top. You’re the you’re the head of grants. Give one metric and then I’ll give you the wrap up. Okay. Conversions means the number of goals that you accomplished through your ads as a result of someone clicking in your ads. How many goals did your they reach on your website that you wanted them to do in the first place? Optimized for that? Tell your boards this is how much we’re getting through our website. It’s not about just website visibility if they bounce right away or if they don’t taken action that you want them. Tio Okay. Why did you leave us into the head of Google at grantspace You’LL leave us with inspiration. Inspirational ten seconds. What I see from our Cantonese is that there is so much passion and there’s so much more opportunity and digital ads to go after it. It’s just it takes a little extra investment of time and I know that it’s social tough in our space, but literally just a couple hours a month and you’LL be you’LL be flying with grams Okay, I just I just gave just gave you a terrific Lee Valuable. Uh, twenty eight minutes and thirty seconds of Google at grand time. They are Michael Rasco. He’s the owner of Rasco Digital Marketing. He’s also on the board of the Multnomah County Library. Basically right here, right here in Portland. We Multnomah County and Jason King is glad Grant certified professional. You’LL find him under Jason King on deshele Hurtado is the head of Google at grants for Google and I thank each of you Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you You’re welcome. Thank you for your for being with us. You’re on our coverage of nineteen. Ninety si the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology conference. All our nineteen ninety seon reviews brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools for non-profits to make an impact. Thanks so much. We need to take a break. Wagner CPS is enough with the webinar. OK, we’ve heard that their accountants do you need one. You need help with your form. Nine ninety is the time to change audit firms. They’ve got a deep practice for non-profits and the expertise to grow it. You know, an insider there, the partner Yet hooch Tomb has been on the show twice. You give him a ring, you check them out. Give him a ring. Wagner cpas dot com Now time for Tony’s Take Two. My video this week is a tour of a Minuteman nuclear missile launch control center. I worked in one at Whiteman Air Force Base from nineteen eighty four to nineteen. Eighty nine, and it’s actually not even write to say I worked at one because the base had fifteen of them and I probably pulled alerts at twelve or so of the of the fifteen, all dispersed throughout the throughout western Missouri. Ah, And so when I was at the reunion that you heard me talk about previous couple weeks, of course, we got a tour of the launch control center and the one we were at I was at many, many times. This was one that I pulled probably a hundred alerts at and you’LL see what they looked like with their nineteen sixties computer rack technology. You see the launch keys? I narrate you through where the where the the codes are stored, the safe with the two lakhs, each one of us on Lee knows the combination toe one lakh red safe, tiny red safe. But there’s the launch keys or stored in there and the documents that decode messages that would direct us to launch stored in that little red safe. Um, you see the commander’s console, the deputy’s console. You could see the light panel ten columns of lights, one for each missile that we commanded. Because when you’re gonna launch control center, you’re controlling ten missiles. Um, you see it all you see, you know, the big fat blast door like I don’t know twenty four inches thick or something with the pins that are like eight inches thick, that retract into the door and extend out into the A foundation to keep us secure. You see it all see it all on the tour. You catch that tour on my video at tony martignetti dot com, and that is Tony. Take two. Now here’s the twenty nineteen Digital Outlook report. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. That’s the non-profit Technology Conference twenty nineteen. We’re at the convention Center in Portland, Oregon, and today is day one of our our coverage of the two and a half day conference. This interview, like all of ours at nineteen ntcdinosaur brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. See the swag on the desk. See the swag on my chest? Well, one more can we do with me now are Elena Francis. She is digital marketing account give at H J. C. In the middle is Charlie Jared. She’s non-profit digital consultant at H J. C. And we have Jennifer Jones Ingram, director of strategy and partnerships that care too welcome Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. And pleasure. Pleasure. Having your topic is navigating the unknown. The twenty nineteen digital outlook report. Let’s start down at the end. I like to start down the end. Jennifer, what’s, uh what’s the news about this? What’s newsworthy about this? And we have almost a half an hour together so you don’t pack it all in, but just thirty seconds. What’s what’s the headline in the lead? Well, I think the reason it’s called the navigating the unknown is one thing that we found out from doing the survey of over almost two hundred people was that there are a lot of things that non-profits still are not aware of what their budget should be. Should they asked for more budget? How much should they be spending on digital? How much should how many stash they have for that? So even some of the basic questions like what is your Facebook strategy for? How are you finding new donors and legion? A lot of non-profits, the number of people who said I don’t know I was kind of surprising to us, and but the good news is, is that we’ve come up with many solutions on how we think people couldn’t continue to learn, continue to grow and continue to make their digital programs even better. Thiss was a report done by by care to and by H J. C. Or in Stacey and ten, an intern. Okay, which is no longer the non-profit Technology Network. You know that, right? It’s just they’re only intend. Now, I don’t want you to say non-profit does. That’s no longer an acronym. Okay, It’s just an intense right, Like the entire day rally in Triple A and Okay, got it. Got it. So, Amy Sample Ward is, ah, regular contributor on the show. She’s on every month talking about social in tech. So that’s that’s how that’s how I know that of great. Uh, all right, so now you mentioned only you the two hundred non-profits were surveyed. That doesn’t sound to me like a cross section of non-profit community. How did you choose the two hundred? How do we know this is representative of the community? It actually is pretty cross representative of it. I mean, we’ve got people from over, I think was over seventy different countries responded predominantly from North America and Europe. But multiple people responded organizations with budgets the size of two hundred fifty thousand up to over fifty million. Ah, large staff, small staff. So even though it’s a smaller number of non-profits, we found that it actually was a really good cross section of all the different groups that are out there. So there’s something for everyone in it. Okay, Okay, Charlie, you say that there’s there’s a lot to be learned in just using some basic technology. Digital foot. So peer-to-peer Facebook. Google Advance. Where do you expert in any, any one of these? Or that you can speak to what the report tells us that any of those things or, I mean, I specialized in social, So okay, the amount of info that was available for non-profits to share with us from Facebook was actually really limited, and there’s kind of a I don’t want to call it conspiracy makers. Well, ah, Facebook is there doing it purposefully. They don’t want to share that data. They want to keep it insular. So their techniques that we want to talk about where it’s getting your donor’s off of Facebook away from engagement. That’s what Facebook wants will you want convergence and people go into website and getting more involved in your non-profit. So their techniques to do that Getting them away from Facebook onto your on, getting involved in your you’re non-profit. Okay, So what? What are some of those techniques s O we want actually try and stay away from their fund-raising tools? As much as we’re tempted to use them because they are so easy on accessible. We really want to try and have our websites more mobile friendly. So that’s super important. Teo, make sure that you’re you’re Was everyone on everyone on Facebook on there? I had a guest just within the past couple weeks or so said that we’re past the question. Should your sight be mobile optimized? Yeah, everything, especially around fund-raising needs to be mobile optimized. Yeah, OK, OK, so you want to see people organizations using Facebook more as a referral source to back to their site rather than keeping them on Facebook? Despite the easy fund-raising tools that air there? Exactly. Yeah. Don’t be drawn in. Yeah, so I’m based in Canada. So Canada, we just got those fund-raising tools as of November. So we’ve just had the start of it, where in the U. S. And Europe had them a lot longer. Eso but Canadian non-profits air still seeing the same amount of money come in and with all the data come in because they’ve had been forced into a really lucky corner kind of Teo be able Teo, make it work for them and it’s benefit of them more long term. So in some non-profits, sixty percent of new donors air coming in through Facebook and they’re getting all their data and they’re able to roll them into their welcome, Siri’s, whereas if you’re using the Facebook tools, you don’t get all that data and very optional, so you really have to be careful with it. You are still encouraging people to use it for peer-to-peer because that data isn’t as valuable when somebody’s donating to a friend, as opposed to maybe your organization, they’re not as invested in your organization, so peer-to-peer is still very valuable because the data isn’t as valuable, but it just really proves how valuable it is. How many times can I say that one sentence, er that is Facebook’s doing. It’s so incredibly, it’s so important that you try to afford that data for yourself because Facebook’s trying to steal it all from you. Alright, alright, you should say steals. You may go for you’re gonna call them thieves. It was called conspirators. Is Elena What’s what’s your what’s your activities in this? But what can you speak to on DH? So we deal with a variety of clients for obviously the non-profit world, and a lot of them, as we mentioned as well in the report, do not use the tools that they have effectively. All they’ve got to tools of the exact same purpose on different teams use the tools and they can’t aggregate the data together in a meaningful way from those two different tools on. The other thing that I find in my experience is reflected in the non-profit industry is that there’s a complete lack of transparency between departments that are working perhaps on similar campaigns on they would gain so much if they shared their expertise and their current campaigns with each other. A lot of organizations each department has their own sort of separate campaign calendar, and there’s a lack off a whole integrated one. That’s sort of like Mark Markham’s wide on when I speak to clients, and from what we learned in the report, it seems that people would prefer that there was shared visibility with one calendar, so you can see what the organization is producing any given time. So this is something that we really emphasizing the report initially, it doesn’t sound digital focus. When you talk about, you know, communicating and working with different departments better on the other thing, there’s well, that isn’t instantly. What would think off, perhaps for digital outlook report on the future is that we encourage people to use the right technology that suits them and seats. They’re supporters as well. Metoo really Steve a Steve into that. And I recommend things are already easy quick winds today that we’re surprised organizations on doing okay, we’re going to get through some quick winds. Ilsen has loved those first. Let me ask you, because I don’t want to forget. Where can welcome listeners get a copy of the Digital Outlook report? How do we get it so well? So Charlie’s holding it up. That’s eyes there you are well on their way, so outlook report dot com digital outlook report dot com Because not everybody’s on the video. The vast majority of our listeners are off our audiences. Listeners. Okay, it’s really small in the card anyone? A digital outlook report dot com All right, One of the first things you mentioned Eleanor was integration between tools. E-giving Give us an example. What? Which? Which platforms or tools you’re talking about? That you feel organizations aren’t integrating a CZ well as they could, so it was a really bizarre situation. I had a client that was using male chimp on eliminate for sending emails, and there was sending it seemed to me randomly they would choose which messaging service to use. And it seems like a no brainer to stick with illuminate because that’s built for non-profits. But they preferred using male chimp for smaller campaigns because they said it was easier and more user friendly. But it just seems strange that you have these two different lots of data stored in separate email service providers. History Very strange. Jennifer What? No, I was just saying that it’s strange that they had two different email service providers for one organization. What? Usually you choose one of the other and bloomin it is much more robust. Exactly. Khun Dio So I know male chimp might be easy, but I know it wouldn’t be coordinated. Communications. I would think that that’s always a concern of ours. Making sure everyone’s communicating the same way to the same people and keeping that consistent. Yeah. Compliance with oft out with the challenging as well. Yeah, I’m sure that that’s fascinating. Back and forth. Exact dahna. Alright, so? So we can live a lot of bad practice having having two of anything Absolutely duplicated. Right? All your your contacts duplicated in both both platforms. No point pick one. Yeah. Yeah, OK, You’re just asking for something to go wrong. That kind of something gets up, one one gets updated, the other one doesn’t weigh, do a lot of journey mapping with clients grayce See and feel that we speak Tio, we do a tech order on we find the different departments feel more comfortable using from technology even if they have the same name. Another thing as well that we’ve noticed is that because the non-profit world usually has quite a high staff turnover, new staff come in with new ideas or old staff, you know, take their ideas with them Tio wherever they go next. And that’s why you get multiple tools for the same application, and it just two metoo seems too ridiculous for an organisation is really a non-profit melon, also with care to weigh, help non-profits find new donors and supporters and way find that some of the digital platforms are a lot easier to work with and others, especially if you’re bringing in a lot of new donors. Sometimes they they have spot heist fan thresholds. They can accidentally turn a non-profit off, which is never a good thing. Yeah, so it’s from a legion point of view. It’s always good to have a single, highly functioning, multipurpose ilsen Charlie a little bit of a digression, but after that, there’s a J C stand for anything. What does this C stand for? Johnson. Consultant John Results. We’re going out to say that like it’s not like non-profit technology like, and we’re not supposed to say when I say it all the time. Non-profit technology never. Okay, um, let’s talk about some things quick. Fixes You brought up the idea of quick fixes, Elena, but Charlie hasn’t talked for a little while. Do you have any have any quick, quick fixes that can come out of the digital report? I mean, it’s amazing how many people are using Google at Grant. It’s OK, they’re still giving. I’m going to give you a chance. They’re still giving ten thousand dollars per month up to which is pretty generous. Yeah, yeah, ten thousand a month. There are for non-profits. Yeah, and it’s something. It’s kind of a no brainer at this point. You really, If you’re not, if you don’t exist on Google, you don’t exist. So you really it’s really easy to get into. You just have to go through the application process. I think a lot of non-profits really intimidated by it. But it’s a great for a well managed junior staffer to take it on on and just get it going. And then there’s many grants out there to actually help you learn how to use it on. There’s a whole online process. If you could just go on and all these three tools just learnt how Teo So it’s is it a steep learning curve getting into Google at grants for You know, first day I would say no. I would say if he spent three days on their learning tools. You you weren’t gonna have. You could do all the basics. Okay, Yeah. If you go, if you just kind of go in and go for it, there’s one person considered. Do it and I know it does get very sophisticated. It doesn’t, but it’s a threshold. You don’t feel like it’s. It should be intimidating to a small and midsize shop. It shouldn’t really to go really far with it, but there are many levels of success. You don’t have to go in and be making a ton of revenue. But if you if you can boost your traffic by just a few percent, that’s a huge win. Okay, so it’s a It’s a no brainer and definitely should be looked into more. OK, time for our last break text to give you get there. Five part email. Many course to dispel myths around mobile giving donations do not have to go through the donors phone company that puts a limitation on on the donations because the phone company doesn’t want to collect too much money. They don’t wanna be responsible for any more than a couple a couple of dollars you don’t have to go through phone companies. You could do mobile giving without the phone companies. That’s what you can learn. That’s a part of what you learn in this five part email. Many course You text NPR to four, four, four nine nine nine. We’ve got lots more time for the twenty nineteen Digital outlook report. Jennifer, you have something quick that comes out of the thie report? Yeah, I think one of the areas that I’ve been focusing on is that the communication between different departments, particularly communications and fund-raising, our marketing and fund-raising depending what you call it. And I think that, you know, doing simple things like meeting once a month and just sharing what it is that you’re doing. Having a calendar that has everybody’s communications on it on DH, even just something as simple as that. Ask stopping Find that if you actually will switch desks with someone who’s in a different department, it’s amazing just how you all of a sudden haven’t understanding of what that department is going through, what they need. So if you can, you can you can you can I bring my stress ball with me to the nude. Absolutely. Hyre switch What? Well, and it doesn’t have to be a permanent situation, but maybe are like a day or two. You just literally will switch desk. You’re working with different does exactly and work in a different department. So you’re talking to. So if you’re a fundraiser and you’re sitting in the marketing department, you all of a sudden maybe understand why they communicate in a certain way to donors That’s different from your communication. But now that you understand it, you could say, OK, I get it. So when we do our communications, I know how I can work with them to make sure that we’re talking to our donors in a similar way. Okay, this is the cross skill. It’s learning that you mentioned in your exactly your session description. Okay, Element, you brought up the idea of quick fixes Lovett. What? What do you have out of the report that you’d like to see done better on easy to do so? One of the things that we find with a lot of our is there some background is that noise. Is that coming from behind the behind our backdrop? I think so. I think that’s a V C R m. They’re out of control. But that’s that’s what That background noises. But now I’m seeing it shakes. Always having too much fun over there. Yeah, VCR M com comfort. OK, I think they took my admonishing quite it down. Okay, I’m sorry. On a and so one of the things that we recommended in this report is that a lot of the time again because non-profit unfortunate, do you have a high staff turnover? Sometimes the training programs and new staff received honors, you know, comprehensive as they could be. So we recommend It’s a really simple thing. I’m surprised more organizations don’t do it, but write your own how two guys with how to use specific kinds of technologies. So when somebody does come in and maybe they don’t have people run experience, they can have a guy that’s always making final online. But if you’re right with God, that takes into account what your organization uses Google ground. There is something that will not be relevant to your organization online. But if you have a bespoke guide, your organization is. Somebody could read it and have screen shots, and they know exactly how to use it, how to four reports out to look at the metrics and matter to your organization. And it’s just a simple thing to have in a shared drives. So no matter who comes in or leaves, people can’t just go in and they’ve got a written guide. You know, visual aids. I love calling it a he spoke guide. Yeah, sorry. So is worth the time to document. Yeah, doctors use each different platform. Okay, there’s always that a situation where the one person who knows how to work a servant part of the database has to go out on sick leave or goes on vacation. How dare them go on vacation? Never a good time to be sick. So this this way. I mean, there’s always a backup plan, so you don’t feel trapped or panicked or stranded, and it happens. Charlie, How was the, uh was the report compiled interviews or serve written surveys, online surveys where I was the info gathered. It was all online survey, and then we all got together and pulled all the most clear data that we could from it on DH. It was really great for three organizations to come together and pull all the different things that we saw patterns in to that we wanted to share with everybody and the non-profit community to see. So each individual person sharing their own experience and then coming together and then seeing the patterns that come out and what I mean really was a major thing of what people didn’t know was the real shocker of the whole report. Just adding in that extra question, I’m like, I don’t know that And it was really Oh, that means that department’s not sharing that or that apartment’s on another one. So it’s really great. Teo acknowledge that there’s lot everyone doesn’t know, but there’s together. We all know it. So we need to really share across teams across killer teams and making less silo like we always talked about in every time. I feel like every single conference talks about silo, but it’s just, you know, emphasizing the support all over again. There’s no one on the panel from intend you khun sake Confidentially. Nobody listens to this show. Did intend pull their weight organizationally organization wise. Absolutely. Today Oh, you’re getting probably was a ringer off camera. Every everyone was involved a juicy weight. We all work together on it, and we have for the past. I know you worked together, but that intent pulled their share of the ways. Absolutely. Do I’m asking? Explicit questions are wonderful. Expert. You okay? Thank you. Um, let’s see. Um e let’s like this idea of a cross cross training cross skill. Any other suggestions besides desk swapping? Any other ways of how there must be other ways. Yeah, one of the things that’s great about death stopping as you’Ll learn that there are people that you sit next to maybe their developer. But they have experiences a graphic designer on DH. You wouldn’t really They wouldn’t say necessary in their job. But you get speaks to them and get to know them or on DH. The other great thing is, Well, if someone has the time, they could do in lunch and learn. So perhaps somebody’s interested in, you know, creating a paid such campaign strategy, and they’re just a regular copywriter. But there’s someone else you can write a copyright for and, you know, paid such they can have a session with Copywriter and teach them that skill. And it’s just a free, you know, short lesson. Basically, you’re not paying for a course. So you know you’re learning you’re learning from your peers your cut from your colleagues? Absolutely. And when they go to do the camp there first over campaign, they could be shadowed by the expert, and they can ask them questions. They get started. So it’s not just a one off session that you attend, and that’s it. You have the ongoing support for as long as the experts that OK, and I think it’s I think it’s also important that when tohave management encouraged people to share what their skills, that is because I think a lot of times like the example you gained a developer who ilsen knows graphic design. That may not be something that person it talks about very much. But if you encourage people to share what it is that they know, you will find and probably be very pleasantly surprised at all, the skill says that you do have on your team just do that in meetings or what Regular meetings brainstorming. Hey, does anybody know how to do this? Design this logo or does anybody and just you know, if you have an open communication and a nen vier mint of encouraging that you will find that more people will speak up and share what it is that they could do. I love this cross team learning. You can’t cross skillsets. Yeah, yeah, It’s a lot of building relationships, as fundraisers were always talking about building relationships. But it’s super important to build those relationships within your internal injury, not only with your donors and volunteers and potential donors. Yeah, treat all of your fellow co workers just like their donors and making sure you’re generous and kind to them as well, because they will be generous and kind to you. I feel like we forget that we’re together. We’re together day in and day out, eight, ten hours a day way. Take it, take each other for granted and absolutely way. Forget that we should be building relationships and learning from each other the way we’re doing. For those who are, you know, another constituent. The external constituents exactly makes the workplace much more stimulating that way, and people feel valued when you’re using their skills that they didn’t adverse. I advertise or they don’t use day today and it makes everybody feel more valued. And it also, you know, improves the workplace environment as well. People are happy to come to work, excited to come to work. And when people are happy and exciting, that’s when the creativity just could go through the roof. Let’s talk about adapting technology to your needs rather than you adapting to the technology. You mentioned that in your session description. Who wants to talk? You want to start with adapting to your purpose rather than vice versa. Way had a case study of the BCS PC and thank you for B C B C S P, C A, B C, Rutgers Columbia species because it’s one of the largest animal welfare organization shit in the world on they want to do a, uh, gift catalog. But there constituents are middle aged women, so they wanted something that was very familiar to them for the online experience. They didn’t want to go out of the box. There was nothing that they could really see that was going to be super familiar on easy and just really integrated. So instead of going with any non-profit tools, they went with Shopify on DH, adopted it as a non-profit tool on went and sought out on an APP developer that was created a specific tax receding app, but that is now available to anybody. So they it is an open source tax reseeding abs. So anybody that wants to use that kind of technology can, uh so sharing generously with non-profit community on DH. It’s totally its growth and compliant with U. S and Canada. So So you were encouraging. Encourage using tools or least evaluating the usefulness of tools that aren’t necessarily non-profit. Non-profit created exactly exactly just going instead of just being. This is the only thing available to us making something work that is going to work. Most importantly, for the constituents and for their supporters, that’s who you’re really was. The most important people is like Who’s who’s it going to, who’s going to use it every day on if it’s not fixed them? And that’s what they’re comfortable. But make it work. You still have a few minutes left. What, have I not ask you that you want to talk about anybody? Anybody, okay? You’re doing this seventy five minute workshop and we’ve been together for, like, twenty four, so don’t hold out on non-profit A lot of a lot of cubine. Yeah, right. Okay. All right then I’ll do tomorrow more cues. Okay. Um we didn’t talk. Uh, we don’t talk too much about peer-to-peer way just brushed on it now, See, now we only have a couple minutes left. So who wants to talk? Charlie? It looks like you want to talk about peer-to-peer. Well, we’re really surprised. Forty four percent of non-profits air not embracing peer-to-peer when there’s such a huge demand for it. People want that person’s experience. Online experience is more and more personalized, and people want fund-raising the way they want it. Fund-raising Not necessarily with, you know, the run you do every year, the gala you do every year. And it’s a very kind of you, Mitch. More and more in each market, people want to do what they wanted. Teo. So we want more non-profits. Look att peer-to-peer creating the tools that that will empower their donors to go out and do do peer-to-peer campaigns. What else? What else can we learn from this report? Peer-to-peer I’m that Besides, look at it if you’re into it, and if you’re in the forty four percent. It’s not as daunting or scary to look at that two. Doas. It looks I mean it when you do one. I think you just get really behind it, get more creative and come up with all these different ideas. You’re basically giving power, Teo. The you know, the fundraiser Teo, do what they want Teo to get money, and it gives them more of a sense off. Just I raise this money rather than I give money to an organization. So create a closer bond with the organization rather just sending a donation through a landing page. Okay, Okay. I think one of the barriers a lot of non-profits have to use the technology to do peer-to-peer is not always the best, but I know that improvements are being made on that all the time. And I think, you know, don’t let the technology be the barrier to do it. It’s still something that’s so valuable for every non-profit that they should do it exactly. We’re gonna leave it there. All right? Right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. They are Helena Francis, digital marketing account Exec, H J C Charlie Jared non-profit Digital consultant at H J. C. And Jennifer Jones Ingram, director of strategy and partnerships. That Care, too, And you Are with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ninety seethe. Twenty nineteen non-profit Technology CONFERENCE Like all our interviews, this one is brought to you by our partners and act blue. Free fund-raising Tools Help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us next week. Nobody’s reading your pdf CE and mapping your data. If you missed any part of today’s show, I’d be seat you find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by Pursuant online Tools for Small and midsize non-profits, Data Driven and technology enabled Tony dahna. I’m a Slash pursuing capital P by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers wetness tps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made easy Text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine Ah, creative producers Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York, with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative network. Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. 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