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Nonprofit Radio for April 8, 2024: Email Deliverability & Email Welcome Journeys


Jamie McClelland, Natalie Brenner & Alice AguilarEmail Deliverability

In our age of rampant spam and artificial intelligence, you need to know how to give your emails the best chance of getting delivered. What are DMARC, DKIM and SPF, and how do they help with deliverability? This 2024 Nonprofit Technology Conference panel is Jamie McClelland, Natalie Brenner and Alice Aguilar, all from Progressive Technology Project.


Patty Breech & Elizabeth Sellers:  Email Welcome Journeys\

What happens after your emails are delivered and folks want to support your cause? How do you bring them into your family so they’re engaged and stay with you. Also from 24NTC, this panel is Patty Breech at The Purpose Collective and Elizabeth Sellers with Humanity & Inclusion.





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Welcome to Tony Martignetti nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host and the pod father of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d be stricken with Eisenmenger syndrome if you broke my heart because you missed this week’s show. Our associate producer, Kate is sick and lost her voice. Of course, I wish her a speedy recovery to good health. But then a question comes to mind. Do we need an associate producer? Let’s see how it goes this week, email deliverability in our age of rampant spam and artificial intelligence. You need to know how to give your emails the best chance of getting delivered. What are D mark D Kim and SPF? And how do they help with deliverability? This 2024 nonprofit technology conference panel is Jamie mcclelland, Natalie Brenner and Alice Aguilar, all from progressive technology project and email. Welcome journeys. What happens after your emails are delivered and folks want to support your cause? How do you bring them into your family? So they’re engaged and stay with you. Also from 24 NTC. This panel is Patty Breach at the purpose collective and Elizabeth Sellers with Humanity and Inclusion. I’m Tony take too. I love the wise. We’re sponsored by Virtuous. Virtuous. Gives you the nonprofit CRM fundraising, volunteer and marketing tools. You need to create more responsive donor experiences and grow, giving, virtuous.org. This is getting exhausting here is email deliverability. Welcome to Tony Martignetti nonprofit radio coverage of 24 NTC. It’s the 2024 nonprofit technology conference. Of course, we’re in Portland, Oregon. You know that you’ve heard this already. Our continuing coverage is sponsored by Heller consulting here at 24 NTC. Heller does technology strategy and implementation for nonprofits with me now is Jamie mcclelland Technology Systems Director at Progressive Technology Project, also Natalie Brenner, Director of Resource mobilization at Progressive Technology Project, and Alice Aguilar, the leader, the executive director at Progressive Technology Project. Jamie Natalie Alice. Welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having us, Tony. Thank you all. Uh Your session topic is email deliverability in the era of spam and artificial intelligence. Um Alice, let’s start with you. What could you just kick us off? We have plenty of time together but general strokes. What, what could we be doing better? What are we ignoring? Why do we need this session on email ability? This session is really, really important for nonprofits and, and grassroots organizing groups, you know, um in PTPS 25 years, we know that email has been really critical to organizations and, and organizing. Um It’s a critical communication vehicle, um, to get the word out quickly to groups so that they can, and their community so that they can take action. Right. There’s no stamps. Right. It’s pretty instant. As long as somebody on the other side is watching. Right. And, and you know, the thing about email, it’s also the place where we control our own messages. Uh, we control our own lists, you know. So it’s, it’s democracy at work. we control the timing, the timing of it, right? Um So there’s nobody there, you know, like, you know, to like to look at our content. At least that’s how it has been, you know, email is Federated. You know, anybody could be an email service provider and send out your email. But now here’s the thing that we’re seeing, right? There’s this concentration of ownership around technology and you’re seeing this in email. So when organizations are sending out email, about half are going to gmail Yahoo or Outlook Microsoft, right? So, um if you think about that, it’s like now with this most recent changes, if you had seen there’s changes in, in uh Google and Yahoo had changed the rules about what emails are gonna be sent. So there’s a concentration and the rules are changing by the, the companies that control 50% of and so they’re controlling the deliverability, correct, you know, and, and like email is supposed to be different than platforms like Facebook or, you know, X you know where they’re monitoring your contact and the algorithms. Email is your, that’s your words, your story being told. And so, you know, it’s, it’s really critical for our groups to get their messages out. Right. And so now because of these rules and these changes and, and eventually they could just totally, they’re gonna make all sorts of decisions about what email is gonna go. Um We have to, we as organizations have to jump some hoops and take responsibility now to make sure that our emails are delivered and it’s really hard for folks to keep up with this. And that’s why our session is, you know, PTP is gonna help uh groups figure out how do we at least get our messages through these corporate gatekeepers, right? To be able to get that out. So that’s the, that’s the purpose of the session, Natalie. Um Who uh can you expose us to some of these rules or, or one of the rules that’s changed? We have plenty of time together, but Alice mentioned all these rules changing. What, what, what the hell is going on? Thanks, Tony. I knew you were going to ask me the technical question. Are you the person? I’m the accidental techie of the. However. Yeah, absolutely. Does that mean Jamie is the technician is I should say he surely is. Yeah, absolutely. So as Alice was saying, you know, email is kind of kind of the dinosaur of the technology world at the moment, but it’s also so critical still like Alice was saying, even after our 25 years, we’re seeing groups still relying and counting on it. And now they have all these acronyms to work through D Mark D Kim SPF. And what in the hell do those mean? Most of the groups we work with don’t know, I don’t know what the hell they mean. And so our session is going to expose that for folks and tell them how to work through all that Mark Net non profit radio. We have jargon jail. You just transgressed terribly like you are in it to bail you out. Obviously. D Mark D Kim and I am in jargon jail and I totally accept that will get you out. Pf to me is some protection factor because I live on and I probably even said the wrong jargon. We don’t even know, but I live on a beach in North Carolina. So to me, that’s my 50 at least help us just before we get into the technical details. Just what are these rules about, right? The, the main goal of the rules is to stop fraud. Um You’ve probably received an email that was sent from Tony Martignetti and it wasn’t you? Yeah. Yes, I have. It’s another guy out there and there are other folks I think I might have just called you Mark. By the way, it’s Jamie because we have another, it’s not D Jamie. It’s D mark is the acronym and Jamie is the, that’s where it came from. Thank you. That’s very gracious of you to bail me out. It was my fault. It’s mine. I made the right Jamie. So the main idea is fraud because Google and Yahoo, in this case, at least they’re trying to impose new limits for a noble cause which is they want to stop people from being able to send messages that claim to be from your domain name, but they aren’t. And your domain name is the part after the at sign in your email address. And you don’t want, I don’t want to get a message from Alice at progressive tech.org that says, hey, Jamie, your payroll didn’t go through click here in order to make sure it’s proper, that’s what we’re trying to stop. Have there been problems with Mark’s payroll payroll? No, I get it from Natalie asking me to like, hey, I forgot the login for our bank account. I need to get these checks. Can you please just click here and just give me you hover over the email address and it’s like that’s not Alex dot ru when you hover over. So they’re doing it for a noble cause they’re doing it for a noble cause. And you might, you know, 10 years ago you got these also, but they were full of typos and they were so obviously not from Natalie or not from Alice, but now with artificial intelligence. It’s possible for anyone you don’t even like, you can be anywhere with any kind of language skills and you can have a perfectly written email that’s very convincing. And, and they’ve also cut down on the, uh, the estates, you know, a $45 million estate greetings of the day, you know, from one of the African countries, you cannot, they are smarter, they are smarter and they’re closer to the real thing, close to the real thing. And so, you know, if you hover over and it says.ru it’s easy. But what if you hover over? And it says Alice at Progressive tech.org which it can you just to make clear.ru is a domain, a Russia, it’s a country level domain name. It’s owned by Russia and it could be anything. Tony dot Ma Ma is Morocco, it’s country of America. So every year I think I pay 75 or 100 and $75 or something to the, to the to the my domain provider. Of course, but they’re paying the country of Morocco for my dot Ma U so.ru is Russia, which means it’s very likely spam. I’m sorry, Jamie. That’s great. So the deep dark secret is that from the beginning of the internet, you could send an email that was from progressive tech.org and you still can send an email, you can put whatever from address you want in the email protocol. It allows it, you can put whatever you want in the from address and it really will be whatever domain name you want it to be. So these new rules and regulations are intended to stop that. And there’s two main rules that are used to test and the test, one of them is called SPF for Sender policy framework, policy framework. And that one says I can, I love the energy between the three of you, Natalie and Alice are giggling while, while Jamie is talking, I love the energy we’ve been working. Plus there’s this guy Mark who’s presence is hovering over us. We’re channeling Mark even though he’s 3000 miles away. Are you, are you based in New York or a Texas, Texas? Paul Minnesota. I’m in New York is somewhere. We’ve worked together for over a decade and he’s only five 100 miles but his presence is felt we’re channeling. So SPF again, SPF is center policy framework and this allows us as progressive tech.org to publish to the internet to say if you get an email that claims to be from progressive tech.org, it has to be sent from one of these 10 servers. And if it wasn’t sent from one of these 10 servers, you should consider it fraudulent because there’s only 10 servers that legitimately send our email. Those are the email servers of our internet service provider. So that center policy framework, if Google or Yahoo or proton mail or may 1st mail, whatever, that’s an email that claims to be from progressive tech.org. That email provider can look up our SPF record check to see if it was sent from the right server and if it wasn’t sent from the right server, it fails the SPF test. D mark. Let me do D mark last DKIM. Let’s work on Kim. There’s no, no job description. Your name must be Kim. We’ll accept middle name, first name preferred. We’ll keep an open mind. Kim is a signature. It’s a digital signature. When we tell us what the acronym stands for, can I on the domain key identified? Male? Yes, there’s math involved. There’s math involved. There’s some very cool math involved. So he said cool math what I was saying? I thought it was redundant. So dkim, when a message is sent by us, we insert a digital signature into the header part of the email, the header is usually hidden from most people. So you can’t see it, but a digital signature is sent with the email message. So when the receiving server gets the message, the receiving server sees the signature and then it has to look up your DKIM record to see if it’s a valid signature and if it is a valid signature, then you pass the DKIM test. So two tests every does every email have to pass all three of these tests that we’re talking? Right? So that’s where Mark comes in. This is the rule. Oh jeez, don’t ask me what that one stands for the D mark is when you make those two tests and then the receiving service says, well, what do I do if it fails? And a dar policy can be, none says, don’t do anything. It’s OK. You can be fraudulent and two is reject and three is quarantine, which are in practice mostly the same. So in other words, you can set your SPF and your DKIM so that the receiving server can tell whether it’s valid. And then you can say this is what you should do if it fails either one of those two. So if the rule is you only have to pass one, so you can fail SPF. But if you pass DKIM, you pass, you can fail DKIM. But if you pass the SPF and the reason is because there’s actual legitimate reasons why you might fail one or the other, it’s still valid and you could fail one or the other. So you just need one. It’s time for a break. Virtuous is a software company committed to helping nonprofits grow generosity. Virtuous believes that generosity has the power to create profound change in the world and in the heart of the giver, it’s their mission to move the needle on global generosity by helping nonprofits better connect with and inspire their givers responsive. Fundraising puts the donor at the center of fundraising and grows giving through personalized donor journeys that respond to the needs of each individual. Virtuous is the only responsive nonprofit CRM designed to help you build deeper relationships with every donor at scale. Virtuous, gives you the nonprofit CRM, fundraising, volunteer marketing and automation tools. You need to create responsive experiences that build trust and grow impact virtuous.org. Now, back to email deliverability. This really is getting exhausting now. All right. So we’re acquainted with what the rules are rules, these are new rules. So this is, this is, I mean, if you consider relative to the internet, this is ancient history. These rules have been around for over 10 years, but the way rules become adopted is very slow. So what Yahoo and Gmail have done is they’re trying to speed adoption of these rules by saying we’re going to reject your email if you don’t have these three things in place. And it’s kind of interesting because D Mark is supposed to say no, you’re supposed to accept it if the policy is none, but Gmail is breaking that protocol and say no, we’re going to reject it. If you don’t, if you don’t have one of SPF or Din, we’re going to reject it regardless of D Mark. If you send more than 5000 messages a day, we’re really going to make sure you have at least one of these two and you have to have ad mark policy, even if the D MARK policy says none, you still have to have that D Mark policy if you’re a bulk sender and we’re gonna stop you. We’re gonna, we’re gonna break away from the technology part of it. I wanna talk. No, no, we’re not abandoning. I mean, it’s important, but we’re gonna move to leadership Alice. What, what is a nonprofit leader’s role in ensuring email deliverability? Well, you’re the executive director. What, what do you feel you take on in, in, you know, in your role obviously as your role as executive director, what do you think is your responsibility around email deliverability? Our responsibilities are responsible to our help our groups because that’s what we do. We support community organizing groups, that’s our niche. Um really think about like, you know, because we care about their work and we care that they get the communications out. It’s our responsibility as our team to understand these rules to be on top of this stuff, which is really hard. I mean, we’re a team of three plus mark out there. Don’t forget I can’t, you know, and so we have to like sift through and keep up with these rules because our groups don’t have time for that. We work with small to medium sized organizations that don’t have a tech arm. They don’t have a techie, they have accidental techies like Natalie, um which we make Natalie do a lot of things, right? They make me do a lot of, you know, so, so that’s our responsibility to move. We were there to really help groups navigate this world and also help them understand the role of technology in their organizing work and the impacts um that technology has in society and for social change. And this email stuff is critical because there’s so much dependence, we call it dependence on the master’s tools. You know, Audrey Lord, uh the master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house. You know. So for us, it’s like having we, we throw in a lot of political education around the role of technology. Email is like the one that everybody understands, but they don’t realize that as organizations that their emails are not getting sent. And they’re wondering like, why can’t we move our folks just because they’re not receiving an email. And so our responsibility is to help them get that word out. And so we deconstruct this stuff, figure it out. Jamie memorizes these acronyms and we hold trainings, we actually hold trainings, we help them navigate, help them get things set up. That’s our, that’s our role. My role is to work to move our team to make sure that this is we’re doing the best we can. We work with almost 100 and 50 organizations, nonprofit, uh grassroots organizations. It’s, it’s our job to make sure that we’re on it and in a timely way and we keep up with it and also translate, right? We got to translate this stuff for the groups that don’t have a technologist. They don’t have the benefit of a Jamie, right. And also the, the understanding is not, it’s, it’s again, understanding that role because we sort of like use whatever is easy. But to do this stuff is actually takes a little bit of, you have to dig in a little bit and that’s our job to help dig in and we’re gonna get to what to do very, very, very shortly. But this is why this is perfect for our listeners because most of our listeners small and mid-sized nonprofits, they don’t have the benefit of a full time or even maybe even an outsource technologist, like you’ve got Jamie. Alright, Natalie, how do you, how do you fit into this? So, um I have been with progressive technology project for 11 years and I started in an administrative role um and in a small organization that doesn’t take a whole lot of time. Um And so I started to learn how to do technical support and started working on the programming aspect of things. Um started training alongside my colleagues. Um We provide several trainings a year online and we’re going to do our first in person since COVID this year, probably this fall. Um And so I do a little bit of everything and it’s wonderful. Can you so can you help us start to get into the topic of how to design your own emails so that they, so that they meet, meet the criteria? Don’t suffer the uh the consequences of, of D mark. I got these acronyms down. Now, you got to do one of the two SPF or D Kim and D Mark will evaluate, will instruct the internet. Well, the email provider, what to do if, if one of those two tests is not passed, I’m, you’re like your name. I didn’t say hirable. You don’t want me as an employee. I’d be a terrible employee. You wouldn’t want me as an employee. But yeah, there’s a lot of things you can do to help before you get to the acronyms. There’s a lot of things that you can do on the front end to help your emails get delivered. And that has to do with setting up your template, not including weird characters or you know, animated GS like the word free can sometimes be, don’t use the word invoice or free in your subject line in your subject line. Don’t send an email to 20,000 people and include an attachment, things like that. And so we do train on things like that as well. And then on the technical end of things, you’ve got all the acronyms to work through and there’s lots of ways that you can get help addressing those if you don’t have a technologist at your organization or if you’re not with a social justice partner, like progressive technology project, um where we provide uh really awesome support to help you through that. So I want to go into a little more detail about the structure of emails, the planning of emails. So that uh Jamie, you want, I mean, I don’t know, Natalie, should we stay with you? I, I’m just, I’m still concerned about the subject line. Leave out free, leave out invoice free at if you’re sending to thousands of people that don’t do attachment. What else just about? Yeah. So, you know, there’s a lot going around these days from different consulting firms or organizations talking about how to craft a subject line that will gain attention. And that’s really important. But you also have to just be careful about the buzzwords that you’re using to avoid the pitfalls. And it’s not that hard if you’re talking about a subject line. Do you guys have anything to add? I think everything Natalie said is straight on some of it. It is common sense. You receive lots of spam messages and you don’t want your email to sound like that and look like that. And some of it can be obvious the no free act. Now there’s a lot of exclamation points, things like that sometimes get picked up. But I think that’s important. It’s becoming less important as these new rules and regulations are happening because it’s getting bigger, the data’s getting much bigger. And I feel like the big providers are really getting a little bit better at differentiating between the spam and the non spam. So I think that really important is following these rules and getting your domain names properly set up. Um, the only other things I would add are just, there might be personal preferences. Like a lot of people have the subject line newsletter number three, number 12. And it’s like, no, it’s the same thing I find too. I think most personally and this is very, like, there’s a matter of taste. I’m not a big fan of the newsletter that has 12 different stories in it because I see a subject line and I decide whether I’m going to open that message based on what’s in the subject line. You can’t put 12 things in a subject line. Yeah, but then whatever is not in the subject line is buried and it’s difficult. I’m a bigger fan of sending out more frequent emails with um that are shorter that like you, you see in the subject line, what it is and then you’re going to open it and you’re going to read it as opposed to a long newsletter. Now, do things like frequency. Does that impact your deliverability? Frequency? So too many, too much. No. In fact, it’s the opposite quantity and volume help you because a lot of these are percentile rankings where the providers are going to say, oh, wow, we received 1000 messages that were successfully sent and not complained about and you got two complaints. That’s a, you know, very tiny percentage. If you send 10 messages and you get two complaints, it’s, you know, it’s like a complaint can sink you more. So they’re tracking, there are, aren’t, aren’t the providers also able to track what people do with your message, whether they, whether they, whether they, whether they put it, whether they market junk, do, are they able to track that you’re doing in your inbox? They’re 100% able to track it. And it’s a black box as to what the algorithm is as to what they’re doing. And this is one of the, when you’re talking about, I think what leadership as a nonprofit sector, a lot of that has to do with paying attention to the power we’re giving these corporations. You’re familiar as a media person in the nineties, we were really fighting hard against the concentration of media ownership. It was a huge threat and it’s still a massive, massive threat. The same thing is happening with email, there’s a concentration in owner within the internet in general and with email in particular with Google Yahoo and Outlook. And we think, you know, Google is free and it’s not, it is like it comes with a price cash. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Surrender, privacy, surrender. Yes. What did you say? Free as kittens? Ac RM kind of thing. Free. Yes, exactly. So, but that’s where this black box comes in is that we’re giving the power to a very small number of corporations to decide based on our actions and based on who knows what, whether the message should arrive in the inbox. Now, these new regulations, I think they are in the public interest. I’m very glad that Google and Yahoo have decided that they’re going to cut down on fraudulent email. I applaud that, I think that’s good, but they’re doing it for their own reasons. And that means next time they might have other changes that they want. And I’m not at all comfortable with us as a sector saying sure, we’ll give three corporations the ability to dictate what messages land in the inbox, especially during these really crazy political times, it’s un predictable what could happen. And I prefer for us as a movement for us as a nonprofit sector to diversify. I really encourage people to look at other providers. Don’t just go to Outlook or Google because your a technologist says, oh, this is a simple thing that everyone’s doing. It’s really important to diversify to go to other providers. And I just want to say like, you know, we can make a choice, we make a choice to voluntarily give up our, you know, work, go to gmail because it’s oh, it’s so easy and, and it does all these things, but we can make changes now, right? I mean, I think that’s what PTP, what we stand for is we believe in people controlled technology for social change because then we can control, right, our data, our messages, how we wanna get things delivered. And so and, and also design it the way we need it right? To design it, the way organizations and organizing, really need to do the work and in our language, right? So this is where we can make choices. But it’s, um, it’s usually most folks get directed, right? Because of whether it’s consulting or sometimes it’s foundations. I hate to say it. But, you know, because you’ll get free money if you just like, everybody get on 365 Microsoft. right? It’s like without thinking and it’s like, but meanwhile, here they are doing work, you know, and that’s anti corporate work or something, you know, and so be conscious about your choices, especially how it may, may uh coincide with your own cause you were going to say something. I am in total agreement with all of that. And I just wanted to go back to a little bit about email deliverability on the recipient’s end. A shout out to all email recipients out there. I know the spam button looks very inviting for every single email that you don’t want to see in your inbox. However, if it’s not real spam, if it’s from an organization where you went to their gala maybe and you decide you don’t want their email, try to click unsubscribe because when you click spam, you know that goes in to mark against that organization and maybe that’s not what you intended. The user actions that do get collected aggregated. I was gonna ask you too, Natalie about Alright. So as a recipient, be thoughtful. Not real spam and we get it. You don’t want our stuff. That’s totally cool. You get to make that choice but just like unsubscribe instead of a spam. What about cleaning up your list? I mean, isn’t there in, in having a smaller list that’s not gonna mark your spam that’s more engaged with your emails and having a bigger list and, and lower quality receipt actions. That’s such a good point. And uh with power base, the database for community organizers through our support, we do a ton of work with um the groups we work with on duping, making sure you have valid and correct email addresses, you know, having a sign up sheet at your gala or your event is great. Um However, if those people are clicking unsubscribe, make sure they’re actually getting unsubscribed in your database. Um You can even go so far as to if you want to keep them in your database, remove their email address, just you brought up such a good point. Make sure you’re not sending it’s, you know, quality over quantity. Definitely you don’t need to send to the world, you know, do some searches in your database for who is the most engaged and send them a particular email segmenting your list can be very helpful for that. Yeah. Did you have more to add? No, I was just saying it’s like, it’s sort of interesting because the idea of unsubscribing, people should know that they’re only unsubscribing from that one list. And organizations are great at like, creating multiple lists for multiple different things and just like, I have 1625 30 different communications lists and like, people are wondering why am I getting all these emails? Because, well, you only subscribe from the one list, you know, so what that email list was on and sometimes you may not know what list you’re on so organizations can do that too. I mean, if you think it’s good to have 25 communication lists, maybe you should pair it down to 10, maybe like limit. I have another technical question. Mark Jamie. I want to ask you to myself. Don’t be so harsh if I was a DJ DJ. Got it. Alright. Um You mentioned setting your domain name up properly. What did you mean by that, please? So with Dkim Dar and SPF these all are referred to stop laughing at the, stop laughing at the acronyms are bona fide. He got you out of jargon jail. Some gratitude. I would, I would charge you interest on the bail payment. I just made quite an acronym. Yeah. Jeez. So how do you do? How do you put up with this? This is a virtual organization. I was glad you’re not all based on the laugh at your technology. So your domain name, she’s I know she’s going to apologize for that. I know she feels bad already. I can say she’s blushing. I’m putting, I’m putting her on the spot. Does she feel she feel bad? I do. I sorry, deeply sorry, apology accepted. I know they really care about setting up your domain name. So if you own your own domain name, then you have a company that’s called the Registrar, which is where you pay an annual fee. Usually about $20 a year for the right to have this domain name. Domain 10 one is a big one. Hover name.com, gandhi.net registrar.com. There’s a number of different ones. The company you’re paying for your annual registration exactly. Now, that often is different than the company you’re paying to host your domain name. Now, these are really subtle and nuanced differences but they are important differences. The company that you pay to host your domain name is usually the same company you pay to host your website or your email or something like that that’s usually packaged together. Now, the company that’s hosting your domain name is where you can set what your domain name records point to. So that’s what you say DNR S domain name records. Yeah. Well, DNR, I don’t know if I haven’t heard that accurate. That makes me think of testing Department of Natural Resources. We can name them. All right. Look, I have the board here. I can shut your mic down. Not supposed to make fun of the host that consolidation of power. You’re damn right. This is not progressive technology project. Nonprofit Radio. This is Tony Martignetti, Nonprofit Radio. You’re damn right. The middle aged white guy is taking over explicitly. At least I do it explicitly. I acknowledge the power so I’ll shut you down. All right. So no domain name record if we spell it, DNR do. So that’s what you’d say. This domain name points to this IP address. If you want to send an email to this domain name, it should go to this mail server. Those are the historic ways that domain names have been used and they’re being added to and order to support the SPF, DKIM and D Mark records. So SPF is a kind of a domain name record called the text record. And DKIM is also used as the text record. So you say for progressive tech.org, show me the text record and it will say SPF policy is this or you say, OK, and you look it up just the same way you’d say for this domain name. That’s the IP address. How do we make sure we’re set up correctly? You know, I would love technical help with this. I would love to explain to you how to do that. That would take a diagram in 45 minutes. It’s painful. I’m embarrassed as a technologist, how complicated it is to do this. The best I can say is first ask your consultant, staff or volunteer if you’re lucky enough to have one, if you’re not then ask your web host and if your web host can’t do it and you have a database, maybe you have power base or maybe you have um sales force or maybe you have networks nation or any of the other corporate places. Ask them because they’re the place you’re sending your bulk email, they have a responsibility to help you and they should be able to help you solve this problem. That’s valuable. Natalie, I’m going to choose you to bookend us. So the Accidental Techie, which a lot of a lot of people find themselves in that position. Uh You know, just take us out with uh with final thoughts. Yeah. Um Well, we really appreciate this opportunity this time. It’s been a while since we’ve done a radio show and progressive technology project is growing. Um We’re a social justice nonprofit organization that believes in transparent and democratic technology. Um like Jamie said to get help with this stuff, your database provider should be helping you, your technology providers should be helping you with this, so seek their support. Um And then, yeah, we’d love to hear from anyone out there who’s interested in learning more progressive. Tech.org is our website. Ok. Thank you. And just to set the record straight, it’s a podcast. It’s, it’s called Tony Martin TI Nonprofit Radio, but we’re, we’re a podcast, weekly, weekly podcast. Alright. So they are Jamie mcclelland, uh at Progressive Technology Project, Natalie Brenner with progressive technology project. And Alice Aguilar, the leader, the executive director, progressive technology project, Jamie Natalie Ellis. Thank you very much Tony and thank you for being with Tony Martignetti nonprofit radio coverage of 24 NTC, the 2024 nonprofit technology conference where we are graciously sponsored by Heller consulting our booth partners, technology strategy and implementation for nonprofits. It’s time for Tony take two. I’m at the National Association of Y MC A Development Officers Conference, the National Association of all the Y MC A s in uh Mexico, Canada and the US. We’re in Denver, Colorado and I have to admire the w for just all their camaraderie, you know, their support for each other. Um I saw it today at uh two round table conversations that I hosted the desire to help each other. Um These were all small and mid size wise and the sharing of ideas, you know, the, just the, the getting along the collegiality. Uh It’s really delightful to see. Uh There are about 1800 people at this uh North American Y MC, a conference and I’m delivering uh a session on planned giving, not surprising, planned giving 101. I haven’t done that session yet, but from everything I’ve seen the two days I’ve been here, the WS really do support each other throughout North America and it’s uh it’s, it’s inspiring, it’s really, it’s, it’s uplifting to, to see everyone just desiring to help each other so much. Uh sharing ideas, you know, and just laughing and understanding. Yes, understanding, empathizing, even if there isn’t a solution or a suggestion, but, you know, just the empathy. So my, my hats off to the Y MC A s of North America. It’s a real pleasure and a privilege to be at their conference. And that is Tony’s take two ordinarily I would say Kate, but she’s not with us. Uh uh III I think she’ll be back. Uh I think we’ve got Buku but loads more time here is email. Welcome journeys. Welcome back to Tony Martignetti nonprofit radio coverage of the 2024 nonprofit technology conference where we are in Portland, Oregon at the Convention Center and where we are sponsored by Heller consulting technology strategy and implementation for nonprofits with me. Now are Patty Breach and Elizabeth Sellers. Patty is founder and CEO of the purpose collective. Elizabeth is us, Director of Communications and Development at Humanity and Inclusion. Patty Elizabeth. Welcome. Thanks for having us. Good to be here. Pleasure, Patty for you. Welcome back. I think this is your third spot on nonprofit radio at NTC. You’re a perennial. It’s great to be back. I’m glad, glad. Thank you and Elizabeth. Welcome. Welcome. First time we’re talking about the secret to loyal donors. Email, welcome journeys. Um Elizabeth, why don’t you start us off with how important because we’ve heard from Patty on this subject in the past. Uh I believe it was two years ago, but it, that was two years ago. Uh start us off motivation. Why is the email? Welcome journey so important? Sure. So we’re all nonprofits. We all rely on donors to do our work and have impact. So we’re welcoming donors into our organizations every day. Um But so often we’re not nurturing them in a way to share the impact they’re having and share other opportunities for them to get involved. So welcome journeys, really provide an opportunity for us to introduce people to the organization, to our work and to ways that they can take part in our work with us. Um And of course, whenever you’re able to automate a welcome journey, it helps small teams like ours at Humanity and inclusion to welcome those donors out as much capacity or or resource of a manual welcome series. So for us, the initial need for a welcome journey that kind of pushed us over the edge was two years ago when the Ukraine conflict started, we work in situations of conflict and disaster mostly with people with disabilities. And we saw an influx of thousands of new donors who really didn’t know much about our work. And we’ve caught ourselves with the problem of how do we tell them who we are, why we’re managing this emergency situation. And the answer to that was the email welcome journey. And we’ve now added more of those to our repertoire to bring new donors into our space. And and Patty, we can do this with, with uh automation, but also, as Elizabeth said, also nurturing we can, we can automate and nurture together. Yeah, absolutely. Um I think the primary goal of any welcome journey is gratitude. Um We want to thank the supporter for whatever their most recent action was, whether it was a gift or joining an email list or signing a petition. We really want to validate that decision and say um you know, we really appreciate you and we’re so glad you’re here. Um Patty, I gotta ask you a question from previous years. Are, are you the person who told me that you, you, you go on dates and they google your name and they find your nonprofit radio appearances was that you, it wasn’t you? I thought it was, you know, well somebody did tell me I thought it was you. Uh no, you’re not, you’re not seeing that. Ok? No, you would remember all. I’m just sorry I I remembered the wrong person but uh it is happening. I I can’t say that there are any uh marriages have spawned from nonprofit radio appearances. Not yet, but I’ve only been at it 14 years. So I’m still working to get to reach that marriage threshold. Somebody did tell me that their dates were, were mentioning their appearances. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. So it could happen in your future, you know, I don’t know if you’re dating or not but let’s talk about uh is this, I mean, there’s a series, you have a, you have a kind of a, this is a series of like four or five emails properly timed. Ok. Now, let me ask, uh Elizabeth, are you working with the purpose collective in your email? Welcome journeys. We presume we’re here, we’re here together. Ok. Um So Patty, you’re the expert here. Uh How do we, how do we get our plan started? We got to think about the timing, the messaging, right? Like isn’t the first one supposed to be within, within 24 hours, 20 four hours? Ok. Describe what that first message should look like. Yeah, so that one is just a simple. Thank you. Um We usually recommend that it comes from someone recognizable within the organization. So like the executive director or anyone who has name recognition with your supporters. Um and the email can be really simple. It can even be plain text. And the goal is just to say I saw your donation come in and I wanted to tell you how much we appreciate your gift. Ok. So really simple. It doesn’t have to be formatted. Like plain text is great. It’s like like the digital equivalent of a quick handwrit note. I saw this come and it moved me and I want to thank you. Of course, you’ll hear from us, you know, you’ll get something more formal maybe or something. Yeah, that’s a great way to describe it. OK? Ok. And that within 24 hours, I mean, with automation, I mean, should we do this within 15 minutes or 30 seconds? Yeah, it depends on the system you’re using. Sometimes there’s like an overnight sink that it happens between like your, your database, your donation platform and your email program. I’m also thinking timing wise, if you want it to look authentic, if it comes within 15 seconds, it’s unlikely that your CEO could have, would have typed that and now you’re giving away the authenticity of it, the authenticity. Yeah, so that’s, that’s actually why wait until the next day, we usually wait at least a couple of hours if it’s a more automatic sync. But if you have an overnight sync that can, that can work in your favor because it looks like the executive director saw your donation come in first thing the next morning and wanted to send you a note. Ok. Alright, Elizabeth, what kind of responses have you seen? You? You’re getting emails back. Like people believe that the executive director really did take the time. Yeah, we do sometimes get emails back. Um just thanking us for the work that we’re doing asking if there are other ways that they can get involved. Um So yeah, we do see some people who reach out on those um on those emails and, and the best thing about those emails is they’re when someone is super warm to your organization. So our open rates are are much, much higher. So we’re automatically seeing more engagement from those folks. After that first email. Are you adhering to the patty breach purpose collective best practice of doing it within 24 hours that first? So yeah, so our donors, they actually do get an immediate thank you receipt if they’re donating online. Um So they get that immediately and then that first email from our executive director lands within 24 hours. And what’s what’s the next step in the in the journey? The next step is story of impact. Um So for us to her validation, for nonverbal validation, story of impact, gratitude and validation happening with our glances at each other. So yeah, have you done your session yet or no? It’s coming up. Oh, good. Let’s have some fun prep. Ok. Alright. So next uh story of validation. No, no validation is of impact is what you get from your consultant of impact. What does this one look like? What’s the timing, story of impact? Um We’re letting the donor know the difference that they’re making with the gift that they’ve sent. Um So for us, we typically will feature someone who’s directly impacted by our services. So our most, I guess most used donor welcome journey features the story of a little boy who was injured by a landmine and actually lost his leg to that explosion and went through our rehabilitation services and was fitted with a brand new artificial leg. So he’s, there’s a photo of him happily running through the streets and just the story of his recovery and, and the life that he’s living now thanks to our donors and I’ll let Patty answer the exact timing of that timing. Well, what is the format? What does it look like it? Now, this is, this woman has pictures and or maybe video or something. This is not the not akin to the first one, right? This is not plain text. We want people to actually be able to visualize the impact that they’re having. So um your typical kind of designed email with, with photos with text, maybe bolding certain um certain pieces that you want to stand out. Um That’s what it’s gonna look like. And what’s our timing? Timing is 2 to 3 days after the first email, we have data behind these uh these timing the flow. I mean, like if it comes too soon or if it, if it’s a week, it it it diminishes the uh the engagement with it. Yeah, exactly. We found that if you wait too long to send these emails, um people kind of forget about the donation that they just gave you and the email feels like it’s coming out of the blue and they’re like, why are you, what is this? So we definitely have clients who are nervous about. They’re like you want to send two emails within the first week that feels like a lot. Um How do you reassure them? We reassure them with the data behind it so we can show them that the open rates, the click rates are really high, usually double or triple their usual email newsletters. So that shows that people want to get these messages and they’re happy to receive it. And we really are striking while the iron is hot and we’re not annoying people with too many messages. And Elizabeth, you haven’t seen push back that, you know why? Two messages after I made my first gift or something. I mean, it seems it’s, it doesn’t seem likely. I mean, II I just made you a gift. I mean, I actually appreciate the attention and knowing now from the second one, what, what my gift is doing but, and just validate, you’re not, you’re not seeing no push back on that. People are opening them, people are engaging with them. I think the important thing on that second email is that we’re not making any sort of ask. We’re just providing them information on the impact they’re having no follow up. You know, if you want to do more for you, it’s too soon. Let’s talk 2 to 3 days much, too soon. Patty, what’s uh what’s our third? How many, how many are there in the The Journey Series? How many emails? Yeah, for a donor welcome series, we recommend five. Ok. Um and we’re about to do number three. And what are the other types of series you folks might have um you could have one for new subscribers. So whenever anyone joins your list, you could send them a welcome series. Um You could also get more specific about your donor welcome series. Like you could have one series for people who give a one time gift and a different series for people who sign up to give monthly. And then depending on your organization, um like Elizabeth’s organization has petitions that people can sign. And so we have journeys tied to those. So if you add your name to a certain cause we can send you a personalized series of emails about that, that cause. Um but yeah, if you also, if you’re recruiting volunteers, that’s a great time to send a welcome series. If someone signs up to volunteer or maybe after they do their first volunteer experience, they spent their first half a day or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Alright. So bring us back to number three, the third one in our journey. What’s our? So the first one was 2 to 3 days after the first email, which was within 24 hours. When should this third email be timed? This is one week after email number two and this is an invitation to become more involved. And so the key here is that this is also not a donation ask, but we’re asking them to take some sort of action with the organization. Um That could be anything from, you know, will you, will you become a volunteer with us? Will you follow us on social media? Um In the case of humanity inclusion, it’s, will you take a survey because we want to get to know you better? Um And the goal is basically saying like, we appreciate you so much. We want, we want to invite you into our inner circle. We want to get to know you. We wanna, we wanna have more interaction with you, Elizabeth. What does that survey look like in this third email? Sure. So we really wanna get to know our donors, so who they are, what motivates them um and what it is about our work that matters most to them, which then of course, helps us tailor our communications to them in the future to really make sure that we’re nurturing them and nurturing their interest moving forward. It takes like two minutes. It’s three questions um very, very easy to complete. So at this point, you’re not asking how, how do you like to hear from us or how often or anything like that? You’re saying it’s only three questions we’re not asking much on um on preferences of that nature, but really just what, what areas of our work they want to know more and and why so you can segment your future communications. OK? Anything else on email? Number three? Either of you that it is important for us to know we wanna do this journey correctly. Now, we don’t wanna, we don’t wanna uh we don’t want to uh walk off the path to follow the path correctly. All right. So we’re OK. Don’t message number three. Yeah. The only other thing I would add is that you can test this out for your organization, you can try a survey and if you’re not getting a lot of responses, you can try something else. OK. How about number four, kick us off with that one. Number four is another story of impact. So we as human beings interpret the world through story, we love stories. So I don’t think that there’s such a thing as too much storytelling. Um And this is just another opportunity to say um Here’s how you’re changing the world, here’s the impact that you’re having and again, that gratitude message, we really appreciate that you’re helping with this work. And again, no, no, no. And what’s the timing for number 41 week after the previous email? Ok. So we’re about two weeks after the right? Aren’t we about two weeks and 2.5 weeks or so after the action that began the journey another week? OK, Elizabeth, what are you doing? And number four? Sure. So number four clients. So we actually, we do have a story of impact, but it’s a little bit interesting because this email actually comes from one of our staff members on the ground in Columbia who works as a Dinor. So, clearing weapons contamination from communities and she’s actually clearing contamination from community, the community that she grew up in where she actually herself as a child stepped on a land mine that fortunately did not explode. Um And she opted to become a de miner and later went back and cleared that same area where she had had that interaction as a, as a kid. So, yeah, so it’s a really, it’s a really nice like behind the scenes stories getting to know both the impact of our work. But it’s another opportunity for us to showcase the boots on the ground that we have as an international organization. And that um you know, the staff that we’re working with are local and are working to improve their communities and they’re doing that. Thanks to our donors, anything you wanna add about? Uh your email number four feedback. Are you still? Uh So it’s through the journey, we’re doing five messages. Are you getting feedback? Uh like through you said when you get the first one from the executive director, you do get some messages there. Do you find much response to 23 and four? Yeah. So sometimes we, yeah, sometimes we get responses. Sometimes we don’t, I think the important thing on these journeys is to recognize that it’s really about keeping your audience warm and informed and familiar with who you are. Um So that whenever it it it’s right for them to take the next action, they know what they can do and why it’s important that they do it. Um So we do sometimes hear back from people. Um But for us, I think the most important thing is just knowing that people are reading those emails and they’re seeing about our work and the impact that they’re having. Um, so that we know that they’re gonna continue to engage with us and that goes to Patty’s point that some folks will forget that they even made the gift of you said, if Patty, if the second email comes too late, folks will wonder why you’re writing to me. You know, they don’t even remember. So you’re trying to keep them warm and engaged as you’re saying, Elizabeth. OK. And how about your, your fifth email, Elizabeth? What is that the the fifth email is the ask? So we’re looking for validation in that one. Yes, we’re asking. So um in that fifth email, um we are typically asking and encouraging those one time donors to now take another step forward and become a monthly donor and join our monthly giving community. Um What if they, what if they were monthly donors to begin with, if they are monthly donors to begin with? So we do have a separate, we have a separate journey for monthly donors. And so in that one, we’re asking them to upgrade their monthly gift so they can give extra and that’s actually a really good point. There’s a filter before this email. So in case anyone signed up to give monthly in the meantime, um they’ll be excluded from this message. The last thing we want to do is ask someone to give monthly who is already giving monthly. It makes it seem like we’re not paying attention a little bit, just a little. Ok. Ok. And what’s the timing patty for this fifth male? We want ideally be a month after the gift. So it should be about two weeks after email number, right? Ok. And so, and you feel comfortable Elizabeth that asking for do more within a month after about a month, right? Yeah, I think, I think that can initially be scary to folks. How is this, you know, are we going to offend anyone? And if we’ve offended anyone, they haven’t told us that we’ve offended them. Um So you got that right? No, we haven’t gotten that feedback. And in fact, we’ve seen people who have either made a second one time gift or people who have decided to start um that monthly gift or maybe they don’t take an action immediately after that email, but two months from now when we continue nurturing them and showing the impact that they’re having, maybe they make that gift, you know, two or three or six months down the road. Um But yeah, we haven’t had any, any negative feedback. I think the important thing is that, you know, donors choose their philanthropy and they choose when to give and how to give and where to give. And so for us, you know, I think Patty and I were talking about this earlier, you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. And so, you know, we’re just asking, we don’t expect anyone to do anything that they can or don’t want to do, but we’re giving them that opportunity to make another gift and broaden their impact. If that’s, you know, if that’s on the table for them. And at this point, they’ve learned how important that gift can be and the, the life changing um actions that it can, can fund Elizabeth if it, if it was a petition, that was the first action that began the embarkation on the journey. But I love this journey. So I’m sticking with this journey metaphor. You have the path and it’s a cruise, maybe it’s a cruise ship or um if, if so, if they were uh they signed, they signed a petition, then I assume your ask in email five is for a gift. And how do you decide how much to ask for? Um We actually don’t, we don’t include amounts. Um So, you know, that’s something really up to the donor. We actually um I will give a plug to fundraise up, which is our donation platform and we actually use their machine learning um which A I is, I’m sure gonna be a focus of some of your other interviews. Um but we use their machine learning and they actually will suggest gift amounts. That makes sense to the person who is, you know, coming to our site and opening that donation form. Um But yeah, if they, if they sign a petition that last ask is just to make any gift, whatever the amount um to fund our work. Ok. Ok. Patty gift number, email number five. You haven’t said anything about this one yet? What do you want to add? Um Yeah, I would just add that. I really recommend acknowledging the donor’s previous gift um explicitly in this email. So saying like we remember that you donated to us a month ago, we’re still thinking about how great you are over here. Um We’re still really grateful for that and we wanted to invite you to become a part of this monthly giving program because we think it would be a good fit for you because we know that you’re passionate about this cause it’s because you gave us a donation a month ago that we’re now asking you to do this. So again, we want, we want to make it seem like we’re paying attention. We remember you, we see you um and we’re not just blindly sending out donation requests. I appreciate that. It’s because of your first action that we’re we’re asking this. Alright, we still have some time together. Is there more that you’re gonna share with NTC attendees? That you have not yet shared with nonprofit radio listeners. I mean, I don’t, I don’t appreciate you holding back on uh on our listeners. Is there, is there more that uh we haven’t talked about yet? Um Yeah, I mean, one thing that we’re going to mention in our presentation is that if creating a five part welcome series, feels daunting to you, you can always start smaller, you could start with 123 emails in the series. And as time allows, you could add more emails to them or not like the petition series at Humanity Inclusion. It’s a three part series and that’s it just three emails. Um So we believe having something is better than having nothing even if the something isn’t like the full recommended journey link. But you can set these up as automations in probably any decent email provider, right? I would think contact mailchimp sales force. All the big ones have automated series features. And Elizabeth, is that just a capacity issue for now? I thought you said, I thought you have four and five on the donor Impact Journey. We do have on the on the donor welcome journey. We have five, the subscriber series. We have five, our petitions, we only have the three. So we have two petitions that we ask people to sign. So um so on that one, the j it’s a thank you for adding your name. And then the second one is again that story of impact. And then the third one is that one time ask. Um So I think it depends on to the action that someone is taking. What makes the most sense and what kind of that final ask how it compares to the one before. So if someone’s already given you money, I think nurturing them a little bit more before you ask them for more money is important where if someone is, has taken an action like adding their name to a petition, then for me, it feels a little bit more comfortable to more quickly ask them to, to make a gift. So they get the shorter journey. The three messages makes intuitive sense and you’re seeing good results. Yeah. Another thing I want to mention is that we really recommend segmenting anybody who’s on a journey, segmenting them out of your general newsletter list until they finish the journey. So, ok, your regular list. So like we don’t want someone to get email number two in this journey and then six hours later get your monthly newsletter that might feel like email overload for someone. And um we also feel like it’s the point of this is to nurture someone to the point where now they’re ready after the five emails, now they’re ready to be added to the general list. But for that first month, let’s really make sure we’re just talking to them about their donation and their donation only. Ok. Yeah, it seems disruptive to the, to the, to the whole cause of the whole purpose of the journey to, to have other communications in there. There might, there might be an asking that you might be asking that a newsletter, right? I mean, there probably is and now it seems incongruous like what? But I, I thought you were. Yeah, II I thought I just gave especially if it comes too close to the gift to the initial gift that started the journey, I could see. All right. That makes sense. It’s confusion. It’s disruptive. Ok. Ok. Ok. This is exclusive for the first month. They are exclusive communications. Ok. Is there anything else I I would just say for nonprofits, especially smaller teams, it can feel daunting to set these up at the start, but it’s really worth the time and investment to do that because you, you are now having these personal tailored touches to every donor that’s coming through or every subscriber that’s coming through and there’s a little bit of work on the front end. But really these journeys, once they’re, once they’re set, you can kind of set and forget, you know, maybe do a refresh every 6 to 12 months to make sure that the is still relevant to make sure that, you know, maybe you have a new story of impact that’s more recent that you wanna change out. Um But once you get these going, um they make your job as a fundraiser as a communicator as a marketer, a lot easier um to, to meet these donors where they are. That’s a perfect place to end. Thank you. That’s Elizabeth Sellers, us, Director of Communications and Development at Humanity and Inclusion. And with her is Patty Breach founder and CEO of the purpose collective, Patty Elizabeth. Thank you. Thanks very much. Thank you. Thank you and thank you for being with Tony Martignetti nonprofit radio coverage of the 2024 nonprofit technology conference where we are sponsored by Heller consulting technology strategy and implementation for nonprofits. Next week, the generational divide. That’s not a joke. You’ll see, you’ll see it’s coming. It’s next week. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at Tony martignetti.com. We’re sponsored by Virtuous. Virtuous, gives you the nonprofit CRM fundraising, volunteer and marketing tools. You need to create more responsive donor experiences and grow, giving, virtuous.org. I think this went pretty well. Uh It’s, it is exhausting. Uh um And I’m a little tired of hearing my voice. Uh But you know, I’m the 1st 600 40 shows were all me and I didn’t get tired of hearing myself for those 13 years. So we’ll see, we’ll see the, the jury is out still about uh whether we need an associate producer on nonprofit radio. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. The show’s associate producer for now is Kate Martignetti. Our social media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that information, Scotty. You with us next week for nonprofit radio, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for April 18, 2014: NTEN & NTC: Why You Should Pay Attention & .ngo

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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My Guests:

Amy Sample Ward

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Amy Sample Ward

Amy Sample Ward is CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network and our contributor on social media. On the opening day of the Nonprofit Technology Conference, we talked about the value of NTEN and NTC for small- and mid-size nonprofits. Everybody uses technology!




Glen McKnight, Andrew Mack, Evan Leibovitch

Glen McKnight, Andrew Mack, Evan Leibovitch
Me with (L-R) Glen McKnight, Andrew Mack, Evan Leibovitch

Introducing the new top level domain–and its affiliated community–for nonprofits throughout the world. Plus, a primer on how domains are managed by ICANN. I learned a lot! My guests from the Nonprofit Technology Conference are Glen McKnight, secretariat of NARALO (it represents you!); Andrew Mack, principal of AMGlobal Consulting; and Evan Leibovitch, global vice chair of the At Large Advisory Committee of ICANN.


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m very glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure black hairy tongue if i came to learn that you had missed today’s show and ten on dh and tc why you should pay attention amy sample ward is ceo of non-profit technology network and our contributor on social media. Of course you know her. On the opening day of the non-profit technology conference, we talked about the value of n ten and anti seafirst small and midsize non-profits everybody uses technology and dot ngo, introducing the new top level domain and its affiliated community for non-profits throughout the world, plus a primer on how domains are managed by icann. I learned a ton, and you will too. My guests from the non-profit technology conference are glenn mcknight, secretariat of naralo, which represents you will learn what that is. Andrew mac principle of am global consulting and evan leibovich, global vice chair of the at large advisory committee of i can between the guests on tony’s take two inauguration of the non-profit radio knowledge base, both these interviews came from ntcdinosaur provoc technology conference. And here is my discussion with amy sample ward about the conference and ten welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of non-profit technology conference and t c twenty fourteen the hashtag is fourteen and t c and my guest now is amy sample war. She is very well known to non-profit radio listeners, of course, a monthly social media contributor, but here and and and outside non-profit radio. She does have a role. And that is ceo of non-profit technology conference of and abandon the non-profit technology network partner. Exactly nowhere. Welcome back. Good to see you. Thank you, it’s. Nice to actually be in person. Yes, i know you were usually bicoastal, right? The power of radio is that we’re not actually in the same room. I know. Um, your ceo of this gig. How did your did your welcome? Plenary go. I hope everybody was standing ovations. And was it exciting? I was here setting up. Yeah, it was it was really great, but actually, i think i was surprised. I think everyone else was surprised by how many emotions we went through because there were stories and videos. From the jupiter video awards and ah, ignite presentations that put everyone in tears inspired them, but then also things where we were laughing hysterically, so it was it was a great emotional roller coaster, which i don’t know what that says about the attendees or the community, but that’s how we’ve started the conference, a lot of open hearts, exactly excellent, excellent, and i’d like to spend some time talking about something that we don’t when you’re on each month, which is let’s, talk about what the non-profit technology network is, and then we’ll talk some about ntcdinosaur well, for future future future conferences, but, um, tell me what’s the why should somebody pay? Why should someone in a non-profit pay attention to non-profit technology network? Well, so many reasons way have a decent number of minutes together as usual, i would say first of all, it it’s totally okay if you don’t want to be on in ten member, but there is definitely no way that in your organization you khun b ignoring the valuable and critical piece that technology is bringing to you being able to work efficiently, effectively, i know what you’re doing know who you’re reaching know how much money you’ve raised track what you’ve done proved that you’ve done it tell people then, how much you’ve done, you know, technology is just crucial for any organization, regardless of who they are, where they’re based, what they’re trying to do, who they want to talk, teo, and to not focus on that across your staff, you know, it isn’t just the director that should know about those things. Every staff person is making decisions that impact technology either for their team, for themselves or just is it taking you five minutes to do something that could take you one minute? You know that that means more time devoted tio doing more of your work instead of, you know, doing more work to do the work, okay? And and how does intend help people who are let’s focus on the people? We’re not in it and because, you know, our audience is nine thousand small and midsize shops, they may very well not have a night manager directly. So what does intend for those people? Well, we’re really focused on strategic use of technology, meaning we don’t focus on the specific tools were we’re never going to tell people on a webinar that they should all be using a certain tool or a certain app or a certain platform, because it may not be right for you. Those those tools, i mean, there’s a million choices for everything, right? There’s like over two thousand crowdfunding platforms? I mean, there’s, there’s just so much choice out there that it’s important, that we provide some some practice, give people a chance to practice, talk through and really understand how to make those strategic decisions. How do you evaluate what you need so that when you go look at those tools, when you walk through the science fair and talk to different providers, you’re able to say, this is what we’re looking for. Can you get us there instead of allow shiny? I want your shiny thing, so helping people understand how to evaluate their own needs, but then how to budget for the technology that you’re able to bring in figuring out what your budget is, and then how to push that against all of your programs. You know, it shouldn’t just be a bucket of office supplies and general technology, not a great budgeting plan on then. Also that you’re able to evaluate then what you invested in to know if it’s still meeting your needs if it’s helping you reach that impact if it’s helping you measure that impact, etcetera and we’re talking about technology runs the gamut. Randi probably could be cr emmett, maybe social exactly might be crowdfunding could be your web site. It could be anything. Um and how does how does intend go about this? How do we empower non-technical agis ts too do all the things that you you’re you just said with that with their technology and and evaluate yeah, we i mean, we’re always open to more ideas for how to do this. Because it’s a it’s. A lot of work, right? It’s. A pretty big mission. Pretty large goals and what what we do, at least right now is we have offline events. We have the conference. We have auntie si. But we also have smaller local events sum that happened every month as volunteer lead meetups in about thirty cities in north america, plus poland. And you know poland is charging ahead for europe. And then we have some that are led by antennas workshop. So all day workshops usually in a pretty deep dive into a specific topic training, etcetera and those air live workshops in in cities. Yeah, we’re in a density, i guess, yep, exactly on then we have year round online programs, all kinds, you know, same as you were saying, every kind of technology, every kind of technology is covered in our webinars we have way have webinars for fund-raising folks for communications folks for leadership level staff who don’t want to know howto install a module in their droop a website, they just want to know why they have decided to use that website and and for those folks, we also have webinars that are for people just getting started trying to figure out the tools that they need, and people have been doing it for twenty years, you know, and are really looking for the latest and greatest kind of tips on to be able to share with each other and the merge of those offline events and community programs and our online webinars our communities of practice, so those are usually topic focusedbuyer oops, so there’s one four directors, for example, there’s one for folks who manage content for their non-profit, etcetera, and they’re online discussions, but they can have monthly calls her webinars together on their totally free to participate in communities of practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eso it’s it’s kind of the merger of being able to talk to other people that know what you’re talking about, learn something with each other, but then also have kind of asynchronous just online connection. Tell us a little about inten itself. How? Because the staff well there, i think they’re throughout the country. Right? Right. We have way have eleven staff and eight of them are in portland, oregon. Okay. And three of them work from home in the cities they live in in california, washington and illinois. Um, and how long have you been within ten? I this i just realized this yesterday. The, uh, ntc in d c in twenty eleven was my second week as the membership director when i started twenty eleven yet. It’s, my, my three year anniversary. Okay. Congratulations. And thank you. You started as membership. I started as a membership director. You remember of intend for a long time. Where, you know, for many years in new york city, you were going to the meet ups there? Yeah, i actually have been a member, and i started the tech club that’s in portland back in two thousand seven and then left and started a tech club in london and then moved to new york and was a co organizer in new york, and i’m back in portland, so i had to rejoin is a co organizer because the group is still going seven years later, which is very strange to show up and not have to tell people why it’s there, you know, when you’re just starting a community kind of volunteer led group, every meeting that started with okay, this is why we’re here. Please tell your friends, please bring people to this group so that we can survive. And now it’s. Just a thriving community. It’s it’s really surreal. Outstanding. But now what happened in london? You didn’t mention london as a city that has. Yeah, they still do. They still have their eye. I am not sure if they still do mention poland yet. Poland, right? But london, you know well, london was formed under tech soups, community program, net squared and so they may still work with tech. Soup there’s a a country partner, their charity technology trust so they may still work with them, but they aren’t at least ten and ten affiliated group. And, of course, if you want to find where the intent affiliate groups are the intern work. Thean ten website. Exactly, yeah, under the community tab. We have a tech club link and i love that the novel called and ten new york city and in portland, and i don’t think any of them have and ten in the name. Many of them are called tech for good summer called tech clubs. Some of them are just called like community technology, something we’re pretty open. Our point is that people are having these conversations and sharing these resource is, regardless of what they’re calling themselves. Okay? And how much of what we’ve talked about can someone participate in if they’re not on intend member, you can participate in anything we do without being a member, but as a member you can get big discount on registering for the conference. You always get a discount on webinars or training’s things like that. Okay, everything is accessible, very giving group we’d like to give you. Alright, that’s, wonderful art. So you don’t have to be a member. They didn’t even think that shooting getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get a drink. Cubine do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our culture and consultant services a guaranteed to lead toe right groat for your business, call us at nine one seven eight three three four eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz hyre but what is membership like if if i am a member, yes, but i don’t remember if there’s only one rate that that members pay. Sure. So there’s you conjoined as an individual or you, khun joins an organization when you join is an organization. It covers unlimited staff, because we don’t necessarily know how many staff you have so it’s so you don’t know whoever your staff are. They khun b, a member, three organizational membership and it’s based on your operating budget. So if you’re ah non-profit, whose annual operating budget is five hundred thousand dollars or less, which is the vast majority of the profits than your annual membership for unlimited staff is sixty dollars, you’re kidding. I am not sixty dollars, for an organization under under half a million dollars. Yes, that’s outstanding, or i think so, too, and that’s the vast majority of non-profit radio listeners like small and midsize. If you happen to be an organization that has an annual budget over half a million dollars how much? Then it goes up. It goes from five hundred, too. Two million. Two million to five million and then above five million. So even if it leave it at the top, it’s still only three. Thirty five. Oh, my goodness. And for unlimited members within your organization? Yeah. Are you getting a little help from somebody in the audience? No, i i just saw i just saw julie. Who is our conference manager. Look up when i as soon as i was starting to say specific numbers because i haven’t had a lot of sleep. So saying specific numbers on a microphone, you know, okay. And i’ll give a shout to julie to thank you very much, julie, for all the help that you gave non-profit radio and me leading up to today. Thank you very much. Really? Julie conroy is that excellent eyes also julia smith. Yes, she was. Julia smith is not currently here, but i’ll shut her out too. She was also very, very helpful. Yes. And we have a james and a jessica. We are no longer hiring j names wear at capacity for j names. All right, let’s. Move. Teo ntc why is the non-profit technology unconference a great benefit for oh, wait. No, no, i have to go back individual membership. So, yes, we didn’t cover that. What was there? The same? They’re the same benefits, but they only cover one person. Okay. Andi, how much did i pay for eighty five dollars? Starbucks stand. Oh, so individuals pay more than small organizations? Yes. Because primarily individuals in the membership in the community are independent consultants. So it’s it’s kind of the hybrid between it being the for-profit organisational range. But put it in his individual. Okay, um, so now let’s talk about the non-profit technology conference and she why is this terrific? For for non-technical agis ts and then well, and then we’ll talk about technologies do because you have a lot of there’s, a lot of technical there’s, good technical work. And they’re all kinds of nerds here. Yeah. All right. Well, all right. Let’s, talk. Let’s. Start with the technologist. We’ll double it. Technologist. Find here. Ah, you will find many people who feel just like you that you are probably the only person in your organization that knows what you’re talking about or knows what those things mean or knows how to set up a database, but you’ll also probably find a lot of people who legitimately want to get past the conversation of, you know, complaining about oh my gosh, you know, my program staff hate when i tell them this or no one ever does their updates, if you are a really, you know, director, technology person in the organization, you’re going to find people, regardless of their job title, who want to talk to you about the things you’re doing, the things they are doing, you know, and and really talk shop, get share ideas, figure out if there’s something you’re doing that they haven’t heard of, you know, tell you about their favorite tools. It’s a pretty good it’s, a pretty good kind of swapping community. So let’s, let’s break down silos where where is off on the side? Yeah, often not in leadership or decision making rolls, right? An organization writes and that’s collaborate. Right. And that’s. Why we got rich? We no longer have when you look at the program schedule for the conference, we no longer list tracks we don’t say, you know, these are all of the sessions for communications people and these air the sessions for leadership level staff because there may be leadership level staff who managed the communications as well, because there are a small organization or they may be communication staff that want to be in a leadership position, and they want to go to those sessions. So we tried to break down even our structure that promoted those silos to encourage people to go to the sessions based on the content of the sessions. So we still listed if it was a tactical or restaurants, you know, gave some parameters, so people knew what they were getting into. But hopefully it really encourages that cross pollination. You go in a room and the speaker could ask, you know, who works in these departments? And you’re going to have people representing every part of oven organization and what i do see these air, not tracks, but i see. Learn, learn, connect and change a cz topics that the workshops fit into, right? Yeah. Those are the three pillars of intends villages. I call them topics, but yeah, yeah, they they sound very important when you say pillar. There, the three buckets of our work there, the pieces of our strategic plan and their how really, everything we do, helps fit across the spectrum of the community. There are people that want to come just to make connections, and that is okay. You know, they’re people that come. They don’t want to talk to anybody that i want to be anybody’s friend. They just need to learn this stuff so they can go to work, you know? But there are also people that come here because they want to do all of it. You know, they want to meet a couple people, they want to be inspired, but they also wanted go to that one session and write everything down that the person says, because they know they need to hear it. Let’s, let’s, talk about ntcdinosaur the for the non technologist. Sure. What? What? What? What are we gonna find? Sure. I mean, some of the some of the most rapidly growing segments of the membership are into traditionally non-technical teams, the program staff on the leadership staff because as i was saying at the beginning, you know, everyone has recognized that you have you have to be smart about the technology you’re using cause it’s underpinning everything you dio it is your success or your failure. So staff in program rolls are now being told, you know what? Can you demonstrate that? Can you prove that we don’t want to know if you serve that many meals? We want to know how those meals change those people’s lives and we’re used to being able to tick up pretty easy to get, you know, transactional box and now it’s program staffer being challenged by funders even by their own staff and their boards to really be able to tell the whole story of their impact and not just the transaction data. They’re coming to the entire community to figure out. Not just how do we think about measurement? You know, they know how to think about measurement, but they need to know howto i actually store this data. How do i collect the data? How do i know if the data is valuable and it’s the right data? And then how do i tell stories about this? You know, i’ve collected all this data, all these numbers. What do they even mean? Can we create context can recreate really compelling evidence? Okay, program staff, what about fundraisers there? I mean, ever it’s a non-profit conference, everybody is a fundraiser. Everybody would gladly talk to you about how you should invest in their organization. So there are true fund-raising sessions, you know, plenty of sessions that air explicitly about friendraising but so many sessions now kind of blur the lines between program communication and fund-raising because they’re about storytelling. Well, it could be a story you want to tell that’s an advocacy campaign or it could be a story you wanna tell, two raise money for your mission, whatever it is, there are so many of the sessions that i think touch on all of those best practices, all the principles you need to follow and many sessions, even if they’re considered a fund-raising session or communication session use examples from all those different kinds of campaigns. How about ceos? Executive director’s? Why? Why did they belong here? Oh my gosh, i mean, i really think that if you are leading an organization and you, you don’t need to know how to get into the back end of your website and change things, but if you don’t know why you have that website, how it is meeting your goals, how you’re going to decide if you need to do a redesign or you need to go get a new website or or anything, then you’re not going to be able to make those decisions in a leadership position. You’re going to be relying on your staff, which is great, they should help you help inform that decision, but if you’re not able to directly engage the way that you are for many, you know organizational leaders and maybe a fundraising campaign decision or a pr topic, i just don’t think that you’ll be able to successfully implement any project that then relies on that website or then relies on that database, as you said earlier, i mean technology’s just so critical toe operating any organization right, leadership needs to know exactly what it can do, how it can be a value and the leaderships sessions that air at the conference, you know aren’t trying to tell executive directors how to build a website, you know, they’re not trying to convert you to become a technologist, the sessions here for leadership level staffer really toe have those conversations about how do you staff for technology? If every single staff person is responsible for managing and budgeting for the tools they need to get their work done, are you providing them with training? How are you evaluating, you know, their use in there, you know, quarterly or annual reviews, all of those pieces that fall under, you know, a traditional non-profit leader’s role with staffing and accounting and all of that still has to either rely on technology or consider technology to be successful. Do you know, are there many board members who come many board members because many people who are on non-profit boards also work at a non-profit, you know, so they’re coming with with two roles, both how do we, you know, think about this as a board where we’re really looking at that evaluation piece, we’re really looking at that larger story of our mission, but then also how i think about this for my day job, where i work and maybe in a more specific role, okay, leave me with something inspirational as ceo because we’re about we’re about to wrap up about ten or, um, something inspirational it’s like, if you tell someone to say something funny, nothing left to say, well, something that i was inspired by, at least for this morning’s plenary was that, you know, i said at the very beginning, there were a couple that made everybody cry. There are a couple that made everybody laugh, and there were a couple that were just the true here is what you need to know to go be successful in your work, and i think it was that, at least to me, what what i reflection on that is that it was the perfect balance of how i feel like almost every session goes every day of the conference goes, and really the whole year with this community of people, it isn’t what did you say? Open hearts, you know, it’s it’s, one of the on ly communities have ever been in in my life where a zsu nas you show up, you know, and you have that kind of hesitation do i introduce myself? What do i do? Everyone just has high where have you been? You are supposed to be here no matter who you are, no matter what organization you represent and and i think the fact that we could start a conference in an unprompted way with tears and laughter and people sharing incredibly personal stories from a stage in front of two thousand people, i think there’s just evidence that it’s a community made for that sharing, you know, it’s, check your insecurities at the door because this isn’t a place for that kayman sample words the ceo of non-profit technology network and ten there in ten dot or ge her idea on twitter is at amy rs ward herb log is amy sample ward dot or ge? And i want to thank you very much and she’s also, as i said, ah, regular monthly contributor to non-profit radio, which i’m very glad about, thanks so much. Thank you for having me and thank you for being at the anti see. It’s a real pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for setting us up. Here durney martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference and t c fourteen ntcdinosaur hashtag thanks very much for being with us. I love having amy is a guest and it was a pleasure to be with her face to face at ntc we have a new sponsor. It is generation siri’s. You may recall that just a couple of weeks ago i am seed their event in brooklyn. It was a five k run walk and it raised money for ten charities. That’s what generation siri’s does? They put together runs and walks for the benefit of a bunch of charities and they do all the back end work of getting the permits and the licenses and they rent the equipment, all the audio and all the tents and all the stuff that you need it to finish line and they take care of all of that for the benefit of the charities that want to participate. They had that one in brooklyn there’s one coming up in miami, new jersey, toronto. They’ll be back in new york city in november and i hope to emcee that one in aa in new york city and maybe a couple of others, you will find a generation siri’s at gen events dot com jen events. Dot com. Very nice people. David lin is the ceo there. I am taking interviews fromthe show and grouping them into topics to create the non-profit radio knowledge base i’m inaugurating the knowledge base with branding branding is so muchmore than most people think of it as so much more than your visual identity logo, website tagline and on the my block this week, there are links two interviews about branding so you can see just how deep it is. If you missed those interviews through the years, i’ve got close to two hundred hours of non-profit radio july is going to be the two hundredth show doing this for four years, and the knowledge base will organize all those interviews by topic so that you can pull the best of non-profit radio, video and audio on the subjects that you want and listen, watch on any device. The introductory video is on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com, and that is tony’s take two for friday, eighteenth of april, the sixteenth show of the year. And here is my interview now with three gentlemen who are delivering and representing the new top level domain dot ngo. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen with that hashtag it’s fourteen and tc, we’re at the marriott wardman park hotel in washington, d c and joining me now are glenn mcknight, andrew mac and evan leibovich and we’re going to talk about i can naralo so there’s acronyms we’re goingto flesh all that out and the new dot ngo top level domain all about domains and how these air all managed today. Glenn mcknight is secretariat of naralo, which is the north america regional at large organisation. Andrew mac is principal of am global consulting and is helping with the launch of the dot ngo top level domain. And evan leibovich is global vice chair of the at large advisory committee of i can. Gentlemen welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Okay, evan, i can i see a n n the tell us what it is and why it’s important came. I can is the internet corporation for assigned names and numbers. It manages i p addresses, which is the machine numbers addresses of how machines find each other on the internet and the names of whatever dot com dot or ge dot us dot uk of the names you used to actually translate. To those numbers on how you get from your computer to wherever you’re looking for things every device connected to the internet, every single device in the world has to have a unique i pee or internet protocol address, right? If i overstated it, isn’t that? Is that right? Well, the problem is, is there’s a shortage of these numbers and everything, but i just didn’t need a number. Yeah, just agree with me that each single device that’s, right so one person could have three or four easily i p address is right. You have your phone, you might have your ipad, you might have your desktop right and maybe have a fourth device that i can’t think about, maybe have two phones, so each individual device has to have its own unique i p address, right? You’re absolutely right. I can. The internet corporation for assigned names and numbers manages that that process is that right? The numbering scheme, as well as the naming scheme numbers and not right. Because in your address bar, i’m tryingto make this this’s relevant to every single person. Absolutely who’s connected to the internet. So i’m not gonna make sure the relevance is clear when you go to your address bar you either type in a name most likely or a number. And that all is an idea. Dress at all relates to an i p address and that’s how you get to a site or a device if you knew the number itself like one o six thought this thought this thought this you could type that directly into your browser, but most people don’t know that. Okay? Yes, but there is a number behind every name. So i have tony martignetti dot com there’s an i p address the number that that’s an address in itself. There’s a number behind that. That common name. Exactly. Okay. Excellent. And if you think about it, if i can yeah, i can look at the andrew. It looks at the international policies around that. So it’s not just a question of the technical side, but also where is the internet going? What will the future of the internet look like? And it’s in a really interesting kind of public private partnership? Because it brings in people from many different sectors from the private world, from the government world from the non-profit world and they all come together to help design the policies that guide the internet as it goes forward. I can. I can is people. There are the internet corporation there. There are fuller. This is a robot. You know, it’s important to understand that distinction you wanted well, but the other thing to understand is that yes, there’s policies. But this is not about censorship. This is not about that neutrality. About that little sliver of regulations about names and numbers. Help me. Are there people are thie internet corporation comprised of people? Yes. Or there is. There is an office in in california and there’s offices in brussels. There’s offices in singapore where they have warm bodies that manage this. But there’s a massive community of volunteers that are. We’ll talk about it. It’s. Very bottom up. That’s what i think most people do not understand. I think most people think it’s dominated down top down. But it’s not and that’s where? The that’s where the regional at large organizations come in because there throughout the world. Right? Ok, now we’re going. We’re not tuna, rallo yet. Who appointed? I can to this role. How did they get that responsibility? Technically, it’s a contract with the department of commerce. So where did they come from? And let me explain, created icann the internet, as you, as you may know, was born out of a u s series of u s government contracts, right? He got big bird was originally a military was it was from the start, but, yeah, profanity. So it was it was set up and the advanced rate i liketo like i don’t like to leave listeners with acronym, the defense advanced research project administration illustration. That’s, right, darpa and so darpa. And the idea was that we wanted to have systems that would that would be able to share data when bad things happen. Right then it migrated to you guys and probably know a little bit more about the academic side than i do, but been migrated to being a way of for academics to share data. And then as time went on, people realized that this was a really big thing, and it could have a lot more. It could have a lot more potential uses that wade initially thought it was a very exciting time, very exciting time and so that clinton was during the clinton administration, and they decided this is too big to just be held in the united states and that there’s a real value and having it be a global thing. And so there was a movement to try to create this. What is effectively a public private partnership that involves people from around the world, and then then then i can was born, and it has been moving in different directions to become more and more internationalist as time has gone on since the early nineties. Ok, ok. And, of course, where where i’m deliberately not mentioning the old al gore cliche. I’m so tired. Okay, all right now, let’s. Okay, so that is very interesting. Very, very i can. So now it is bottom up. So we have these offgrid these regional at large, um, at large organizations throughout the world. Of which naralo the north america regional right regional advisory organs committee is one or the organization naralo well, i can has chopped the world into five region, so no naralo is one of them. There’s, also one for latin american and caribbean, one for europe went for asia and one for asia pacific and one. For africa. Okay, all these at large organizations throughout the world and they are helping to represent the people that are the people that are people, the individual internet users day in and day out, right? You’re not buying it. Domain. You’re not selling domain. You use them in your browser that’s, right? What does that mean? Well, so they thought the thought is that how does that relate to what i wait, wait. Give it a chance. Okay? How does that relate to what i just said? Okay, if ford wants to have a website that you look at their cars, so ford goes out, they buy four dot com. And in germany, though, by four dot d e and so on and so forth. Okay, yeah. Then, it’s, they market to you here’s how to find us. All right, four dot com you type that into your browser, you’re not the one buying the domain. They’re paying money to somebody toe have four dot com. They’re buying an annual subscription to somebody toe have that? Yes, they’re paying to somebody else that have four dot d and so on and so forth each of these top level domains dot com dot or ge every country has won so in canada’s dot see a uk, right? A you and so on. So there’s right now, there’s about twenty two dozen odd generic ones that aren’t associated with the country. Every country has designated their own and there’s about to be a very, very large expansion. Okay, we’re gonna get to that. We’re going to get there. Don’t worry. We have twenty five minutes together. Don’t worry. We’re not going to lose that. I know. It’s important. I happen to know, for instance, that morocco, the country, morocco is dahna emma. Because i have bought through bentley the custom earl. Tony. My name tony martignetti. Tony dot. M a. So i know morocco is emma and you know, and in bit lee itself. Where is billy going through? I don’t know why. Libya? Libya. Oh, dot fulwider libya. Yes. Okay. Excellent. Who thought right? You do that. All right. You got the right people. Hear you, do you? Do you guys do well, that’s a rhetorical question for the three of you know what? I was anywhere else than any other audience. That would be. That would not be rhetorical. If you see something dot tv that money is going to the island of to look tuvalu to value in the south pacific. Follow-up xero tuvalu otavalo alright to tuvalu. Okay, um, so well, all right. So i pay my money for the dot tony dot emma. Andi, i paid it to whatever hover or domain director, you know where you bought it from a registrar. Okay. That’s a recess, the registrar. And then they in turn, have bought it from a registry. The guys who run the dahna registry makes sense within that within the country of morocco. So more cases in the case of morocco it’s run it’s, run by the whoever’s, the moroccan internet authority. Okay, in some case, it’s much advantaged by a third party because they may have the technical skill. I don’t doubt that the two blue government, in fact, i know that the two blue government uses uses that uses a third party that help them run. That which is fine, you know it’s good for them. And how is all this? And how do do those relate to? I can’t okay, so i know there isn’t a direct relation. I mean, i know they’re not direct, but well, i can through contracts essentially has relationships with the people that do dot com dot or dot net and the new ones that air coming around the ones that are the country codes. There’s a little bit of a hands off relationship because that’s a national sovereignty thing. So i can doesn’t get involved in the national codes, but they coordinate them. So they do show up at the i can meetings. There is a relationship going, and they work on things like best practices. Okay, without i can we we would probably have duplicates all over the world. We wouldn’t be able to reach anybody. We’d have duplicates and triplets and quadrillion million connections. Think this is one of the things that tony that i think it’s really been important about. The way that the internet has developed is is that the real strength of the web is that it is a unitary web that there’s one place, that all of us can go where we can all meet online. So there’s not a moroccan web and a saudi web. Yeah, and and and and and a senegalese web. And because of that, we can do so much more together. And so one of the great things that i can has contributed, i think is, is that it’s managed to keep the international community together, given them a voice so that all of these different groups, like the user groups, like the commercial groups like the government groups, can advise the board in such a way that we can keep the web together so that we can really leverage it to the maximum impact. So you’re you know, now you now you you have, ah user base that maybe mostly in north america say, but there’s no reason why this couldn’t expand out into different languages and all over the world non-profit radio. Yeah, and that’s, partly because of the web being unitary. Unitary that’s one of the goals i think of i can is to keep it that way to try and get the most out of our way out of our ability to in-kind. But that also means satisfying the needs of people around the world. So you are now starting to see domain names that are in cyrillic that are in chinese script. There are in arabic or hebrew or hindi and so they’re not in latin characters. Now you may not be able to read them. You may not be able to use them, but the people in china or saudi arabia that are using them, i don’t care if you do or not, because they’re targeting their own language audience. Okay? And of course, i could always get to the number that’s behind those, right? So if i don’t know, i don’t know how i would do that. But i could. Well, your key bird could do arabic. Then you could type in arabic driving up there when you get it right. But short of that, there is a number behind everything. All those irrespective of the language that the address is in, right? Okay. In fact, you may have the arabic in the english pointing to the same number that conserve you in both languages. I don’t have the arabic and the english pointing to the same number. Oh, sure. Okay. Yeah. Still a unique number. That’s. Right, number’s gotta be unique. Okay. All right. Now, let’s. Let’s. Bring glenn into the conversation because he’s, the one who brought this topic to me yesterday. And there is something very exciting happening for non-profits there’s a new top level domain like a dot com dot or ge glenn, why don’t you get real close tonight? Yes on dh tell us, what’s going on? Yeah, so actually the expert on this that is actually part of the p i r implementation of dot ngos is avenged and you’ve crossed it well, but i felt back you haven’t contributed yet and you brought this very interesting topic to me because actually the nancy spoke at the podium yesterday and and we’re at the inten conference and actually addressed the twenty, two hundred delegates saying, hey, we have this new ngo as not-for-profits you should be involved and i thought it was important. That’s why we did a birds of a feather yesterday that’s why were going around with our brochures on naralo informing the not-for-profits sector hey, the internet, internet governance, all the issues that are pertinent important to you actually there’s organisations particularly naralo that can assist you in this. Israel says we’re here particularly to promote not-for-profits to join as a lexus with i can okay, andrew will turn to you because you are helping with the launch. Of a new ngo, top level domain, and in fact, i was just because you mentioned it the other day. I was three weeks ago in morocco doing really doing, doing radio in morocco, actually, as part of it, right and all that brought you here. So that means you’re tony dot mm, exactly, right? So i mean, i just thinkit’s the world coming together and so perfect, right? So the idea behind a cz you know that and that’s, we’ve discussed that the internet has these amazing possibilities right for an especially corporate for non-profits if you think about it all around the world, non-profits many non-profits find themselves confronted by the same challenges they find themselves in need of partners. They find themselves in need of visibility. They find themselves in need of additional resource is and things like that. And thie as the internet. Azaz evan was describing there’s a tremendous interest in in in expansion of the internet so that so that more people can get on board can more people could take it, take use of it. There were historically twenty, some or first there were thirteen and they were twenty some different, but they called generics and those generics working like calm and like net on, like organ and the people public interest registry that brought as and have been managing dot or ge looked at this expansion of the internet that was proposed a few years ago and said, hey, there’s, a real opportunity or, like, calm like that is an open space, okay, you do not need to be a non-profit to have a dot orgel, though most many, many orders are very interesting, right? Most are, but you don’t have to be don’t have dahna same way that you don’t have to be a company to be a dot com, you don’t have to be a network to be a dot net, but that was the original taxonomy of it, right? So they said, hey, this may make real good sense if we’re expanding the internet out this make make real good sense for us to get to have a specific, targeted, safe space for ngos to congregate on the web, right? We’ll give them additional tools that will allow them to meet up that will allow them to do things and for people to find them right and have a high level of this’s the’s are in fact real ngos, and that stems out of for a whole host of reasons i mean one is the desire for ngos toe work together much more closely, which there, which is a huge issue around the world. Second one is there’s much, much more cross pollination and much, much more cross work between ngos from the global north and the global south. Donors are asking for it. The ngos themselves are asking for it. And yet, if you’re if you’re an ngo doing really great work on hiv aids in mali, it may be very difficult to get visible outside of bamako, right? And if you’re doing it from, you know, a secondary or tertiary city, its most impossible to do it. How will this new top level domain so the so the idea behind it is the way we create a a safe space, you get a dot ngo, a dot org and access to a portal and actually the ability to put up a little basic portal. Paige, if you’re if you like so that you could be found, you could be searched and found easily so that you can be you confined partners. You can share data with them and you can import your own donate button. You know you’re on your own. You’re on your own don’t donate app when every whatever you would use i would like to use so that you could receive funds directly when i was in morocco is a perfect example, right i was in was in three cities in four and a half days was in robot casablanca in marrakech. We had a long conversation with the people in marrakesh and he said, how many tourists come to america shevawn year and it’s hundreds of thousands. Right. So you think to yourself wow, we met with remember the incredible woman she’s, a pharmacist who set up a she set up an ngo to help deal with street children who were abandoned, children who were abandoned, the street, the babies or abandon in the street. And she said, you know, i said, well, how many? How many of these tourists that come know that you exist? You can afford to fly all the way to america’s ah, fifty, dollar contribution is a nothing, right it’s a dinner and yet no one could find her and she couldn’t find them. This is the kind of thing that will allow her to connect in with other ngos doing similar kind ofwork and conceivably with tourists with hotels with other people who are of, you know, who would love to give her money and love to support her work, and would never know that she existed. Okay, but tony there’s one there’s one important thing about this is that what andrew’s talking about? What dahna ngo is doing is more than we’re just going to sell you what don’t mean? Yeah now immortal it’s a community where is the other ones that are doing like dot dogs? Or died? N y c or a lot of these other let’s? Not let’s not know what what i’m saying from its not put dahna twice in the same category dot dogs, it shouldn’t even be in the same sentence. You’re from new york? Yes, and i’m wishing out there right now or dot bicycle or whatever the point is with most of these you by name, you get a name it’s like dot com that’s it and you’re on your own, right? This is not what this is. Deeper than that exactly. The goal. The goal is to create a real community and are carried a real international community with a lot of input. I mean, this is not a it’s p i r is helping to do the back end announcing the i r is right. The public interest registered the people who are doing the people who are running dot, dot launching dot ngo is the public interest register people who do dahna arkwright. Okay, they their goal, you know, there’s a there’s, a great sensitivity and it’s a valid sensitivity in the ngo communities and says who died and left you in charge? Right? And they’re very humble. And one of the things that we like about this approach is they’re very humble about it. They recognised that this has got to be a community organiser, you know, it’s got it’s got it’s got to be computer he organized pr can help the dot ngo people can help with the back end. But in the end there’s going to be it’s about and for the ngo community itself, okay with ngo governance and is part of it, yeah! You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems block a little? 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If you have big dreams in a small budget tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio, i d’oh. I’m adam braun, founder of pencils of promise. Oppcoll all right, all right. So, what way? Need some takeaways? We still have a good amount of time. We play time’s. Not that we’re not wrapping up yet. But what are some takeaways now for non-profits that have ninety nine percent there? There dot org’s people were talking to we’re listening. What? What should they? How did they take advantage of doubt, ngo, what do they what do they do? The first go to my office on monday. What do i do? Tow. Explore this more and see if i can. It makes sense for me. The first thing is to put an expression of interest and why. And what you do is you guys are laden with your acronyms. Oh, my god! Any? Oh, i an expression of introduction of interest on. And what that does is that puts you down. Puts you down is having expressed interest. There are a number of people who, for obvious reasons, have i have names that might overlap, especially if you go by your acronyms. So, it’s, good to get your name down as early as possible. It gets you on the list. It gets you gets you information. About what? When? Things are going to roll out because it’s still, you know, with anything technical, where do you go? Where do you do where you do the eoe eye? Who do i send the notice? You goto the one that i remember is g o t l d dot org’s. But there are others, and i’ll get you that in from okay, raymond. All right. So ngo t l d dahna latto or but if you could also go to the p i r dot ord website as well, p i r dot org’s also. Right. So, you know, i’m good listeners to be ableto take some actionable steps. Well, it hasn’t your well it hasn’t launched. It is a matter of getting getting on a waiting list. Effective bourelly at theo, i stage its course hasn’t launched, right? Yo, i but so what? You know so but the ideas it’s first come first served if you want to name that some other non-profit also wants to use the same name. So that kind of religion is that we don’t makes a lot of sense to get your eoe eoe eye your expression of interest in, you know, even if you may not have end up doing it. That’s what right? But claimed absolute claims in their advantage in claiming a space, of course, and then you get the choice later to actually use it or or let it let it let someone else that’s, right? It’s, not it’s, not a guarantee that you’ll get it, but and remember that space is only open to real ngos, right? So? So if a company cames in, if abc company wanted to come in, they wouldn’t qualify, so they won’t. They you know, they wouldn’t get a dot nt right, or an individual or on anything, even if i was doing that, even if you were an artist and even if you’re doing work for the public good, but still, you’re still not gonna qualify for dahna ngos, correct, okay, zsystems sorry, what andrew’s getting out it’s, a vetting system. This is a real improvement over the previous system, okay, we’re improving. Dahna what’s, the what’s, the what’s. The next step then after the expression of interest what’s gonna happen. So where we are, we in the hole i can process just generally is is that is that as as these new names have been approved right, then they have to get they have to go through their technical checkups and this kind of stuff. And then eventually they get what they put into the root. Right. Then they become available. And so what? What will happen is over the course of the rest of the year, all of this stuff will be rolled out. There are new ones being rolled out every every few weeks. If i remember correctly that’s, right? And the one the ones for for dot ngo are going to be available late in the year. It looks like and when they’re available, everybody who’s on the list will get advance warning of everything that’s happening. Your people to follow it on on our on the web sites and things like that and then when and then and then when it when it when it, when it happens when it comes live for sale and seven says it’s ah it’s a first come, first serve kind of thing there are, as you can imagine, a number of ngos that have the same name in different places around the world, of course. So if that’s one of the reasons why we’re encouraging people, especially people who are, you know, bigger networks that want to get in early, get torrio in now, as time goes on, they will be doing a whole host of launch events around this to try to sensitize people around the world and an important thing about this is it’s not just to do it for your own side, but share it with your network. This is a one of the great things about the dot ngo the community is that it will have a real network effect. The mohr ngos around the world that get into this community, the more people will be able to know, the more it’ll be easy for foundations and donors and individuals to say, i’m going to go there, i’m going to look for good, good people. I’m going to contribute. You may have heard of the of the work that people like eva are doing when you have a small micro lenders, you know, an individual can go on, give twenty five dollars to a to attu an entrepreneur in uganda imagine that on a huge scale for ngos around the world. And you got the idea that what what have done ngok very important to recognize that this is much deeper than just a top level domain, absolutely community it really worldwide commune and hopefully a real game changing technology for the ngo sector. There’s going to be hundreds of these? I mean, a lot of them are just going to go to you and say, well, if you couldn’t get what you wanted and dot com come to us, this is something much bigger than that. Okay, what else we got a couple minutes that was it sounds like a great wrap up, but i still want to spend a couple more minutes can tell you about what we’ve been doing around the world because i think it’s pretty interesting stuff. Uh, okay, keep it keep it relevant to our to our audio. Absolutely, absolutely it’s it’s just to give you a sense of what this is like, we’ve been actually talking with with ngo audiences around. The world i think we’ve done them in, i don’t know, maybe twenty different countries, at least, you know, morocco, senegal, cameroon, all over south america, india, singapore, dahna comes in different places. What’s so exciting about it is is that the feed back to the community has been that this is this is this is a really this is really good gig that they’re sure that they’re having a hard time, you know, they’re having a hard time getting the visibility and coming together because there’s not a common space. And so one of the things that we’ve we’ve made a big effort to do is to try to design all of the criteria for joining what it means to be an ngo real big challenge. What does it mean to be an ad to find across the world? So to be fair to everyone, you got it? And so what we’ve made a big effort to do is to get impact input from the different communities around the world to say, well, you know, you know, you you know, the west african community better than us give us advice on what would constitute an ngo and so that’s been great learning experience and and we’re continuing to we built this really great network of advisers and people who can give us input on, you know, does this work and and i’m guessing that this will be an ongoing process where, you know, as time goes on, well, will continue to refine and make this more and more and more appropriate to the local conditions as well as just a broad, broad international conditions i’m feeling i’m feeling very glad that non-profit radio is part of helping spread the word we’ll get, we’ll get nine thousand organizations. Well, tony it’s going to be very, very important, teo know about this kind of thing because you’re going to have this rollout of all these top level domains within the work i’m doing within at large, and i can’t there’s a really trust issue here that some of the domains, they’re just going to be a free for all, and anyone could be in there and there’s, no vetting their religion and so it’s important to know that there’s going to be some of them that are in this that are sort of a cut above from the rest. Okay, glenn yeah, i’d like to. And two that is that i suggest connecting with i can the main staff, the vp, chris mondini would be a perfect person to be a host guest issue. Okay, we’ll talk about it. We’ll talk about that after. Can people get information at n g o t l d dot org’s their information they can and there’s a booth. The dot ngo. People have a booth right as you walk into this room. Well, but what are nine thousand aren’t here? So you get you a lot and there and i think there’s another one global tl d no global ngo dot dot or guy think also is it global ngo dot or believe that that’s, right? But but goth definitely okay, of course, that stands for non governmental organization. Top level domain you gotta learn about all right, glenn mcknight. I’m sorry. Yeah. Koegler mcknight, secretariat, secretariat of naralo you spoke the least, but i want to thank you very much for bringing this up, but i’m glad i’m glad i met you yesterday. And then you brought in andrew mac. Principle of am g global. Ok, am amglobal amglobal consulting is makes sense. On day, of course, he’s also hoping with the launch of the dahna ngo new top level domain on glen, also brought in evan leibovich, global vice chair of the at large advisory of what am i messing up, vice chair global vice chair of the large advisory committee of of i can, which we all now understand is the internet corporation of assigned names and numbers i want thank you very much for revealing this this part of the back end of our magnificent internet and then also explaining the new top level domains. Gentlemen, thank you so, so much. Thank you so much. Pleasure, really joy. I learned a lot. I’ve never i’ve never heard this done in thirty minutes before. Okay, well, either we didn’t recover it superficially or we did a good job and kept a concise tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of and t c the non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen. Thanks so much for being with us, i think those gentlemen very much glenn and andrew and evan and everybody at ntcdinosaur who made me feel so welcome while i was there for two days getting terrific interviews and there’ll be many more. Of those interviews to come in the weeks and months ahead next week, adam weinger on your matching gift program, and cindy gibson, our new contributor on grants, fund-raising she’ll be with me once a month. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam lever, which is our line producer, shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. This music you hear it’s by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Co-branding think dick tooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. E-giving cubine. 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