My Guest:
Heather Burright: Performance Improvement
Do you want to get the best out of your teams? That means getting the best from each player. Heather Burright recommends 360 Degree Feedback and she takes you full circle. She’s CEO of Skill Masters Market.
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Transcript for 553_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20210809.mp3
And welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of inguinal hernia if I had to stomach the idea that you missed this week’s show performance improvement, do you want to get the best out of your teams? That means getting the best from each player. Heather Burr right, recommends 360 degree feedback and she takes you full circle She’s Ceo of skill Masters Market On Tony’s take two sharing, still is caring. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C o. And by sending blue the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue, what do you say? We get started. I want you to know we have a shorter show this week, it’s gonna be about 35 minutes. Okay, here is performance improvement. It’s my pleasure to welcome heather Barr. Right. She is founder and Ceo of skill Masters Market Creating dynamic people centric solutions that drive business goals. She has 15 years of experience identifying core competencies that are needed to see real results and creating the learning strategies needed to develop them. The company is at skill masters market dot com and heather is at heather burr. Right heather, welcome to nonprofit radio [00:02:01.64] spk_0:
Hey Tony. Thanks for having me. [00:02:03.54] spk_1:
It’s a pleasure, absolute pleasure. [00:02:05.31] spk_0:
We’re talking about, [00:02:12.94] spk_1:
we’re talking about performance improvement and you use this tool called 360 Degree Feedback. [00:02:16.34] spk_0:
So let’s start [00:02:17.37] spk_1:
With the Basics. What’s an overview of 360° feedback? [00:02:59.24] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. Um so 360° feedback at 360 assessment is a great way to get feedback. It’s exactly what it sounds like to get feedback with that 360° view. So you can invite people like your supervisor, your peers, your direct reports, um other colleagues or partners. And you can get anonymous feedback all in one place and then you have some good comparison data. So you can see how you’re being perceived. There’s also a self survey as part of that. So you can compare how you’re being perceived to how you’re perceiving yourself. And it just gives you really rich information so that as you start to think about what do I want to work on, where do I want to invest? My time, my energy, my resources. You have some really good data to work with it to help inform. That’s you can prioritize your professional development a little better. [00:03:18.44] spk_1:
That sounds very interesting to uh compare what you think of yourself to what others think of you. Do. You have you actually been doing this many years? You see a lot of um disparities a lot of in congruence between self assessment and the assessment that others have provided. [00:03:33.54] spk_0:
There there can be for sure. I actually with 360 assessment, I feel like [00:03:38.25] spk_1:
living in deep denial. Maybe [00:04:30.84] spk_0:
It happens with 360 assessment. I feel like how you show up to different groups of people can intentionally be different. So what your supervisor sees may be different from what your direct reports see or what your pure C. And that might be okay. So it’s about taking that information, finding those discrepancies, finding that alignment and then interpreting it for your own your own work, your own lifestyle and and how you want to be. You know, showing up to all of those different groups. I actually do something and it’s not for for today’s conversation, but I actually do something called an intercultural development inventory, the I. D. I. A qualified administrator for them. And that assesses intercultural confidence. And there’s actually I’ve seen a greater disparity in that assessment than in 3 60 assessment assessments which typically assess more general or more common leadership competencies. [00:04:51.74] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So in the intercultural intercultural assessment, people perceive themselves as more aware, sensitive conscious than they are perceived by others, correct? Yeah. Alright. Not surprised [00:04:55.72] spk_0:
we do that a lot. Right. We do it for me. That’s why, you know, we all think we’re [00:05:01.97] spk_1:
well, we all think we’re great people. [00:05:11.24] spk_0:
We do and we are right there. We all have great skill sets and things that we can offer the world. But I think if you think about your to do list, right. A lot of us will tend to put too many things on our plate and then we wonder why we can’t accomplish at all. It’s because our perception is not always matched to our reality. [00:05:26.44] spk_1:
Yeah, perception and reality diverge greatly. Okay, that could be this could be fodder for therapy to [00:05:29.44] spk_0:
uh [00:05:47.24] spk_1:
but but when we’re gonna talk about coaching, because coaching, you know, you need I gather you need somebody to help you assess all this input that’s coming in and especially if you’re deeply divergent between what you think and what others think. You know, I can see how coaching would be critical so that you don’t jump off a cliff with these results. [00:07:12.64] spk_0:
Yes, Absolutely. With 3 60 assessment, I recommend going through the assessment process which just helps to increase your own self awareness where you are, where you want to be and then working with a coach to help prompt you to action. So in the awareness face and you know, you’re taking this assessment process, it’s anonymous feedback. So it’s feedback that you’re not necessarily going to get anywhere else. Most people aren’t going to just walk up to you and say your communication skills are not as good as you think they are. So it’s feedback that you’re not necessarily going to get anywhere else. And it can show that those discrepancies in that alignment which is really, really helpful. It brings a lot of self awareness to the table. But then during that coaching session you can start to identify action, focus on the action that you want to take. So you’re able to identify, you know, which skills are most essential to your current role and how did you do on those skills or which skills are most essential to a future role if you want to look at it from a future perspective, I know I want to move into this other position and his other role. And so what skills are going to be most important there? What do I need to work on to get there? And so you can start to consider what you might need to leverage, what are your strongest skills are, but also what you might need to enhance as you move forward. And then those skills which are identifying with that coach can become part of a custom action plan that you have. So again, you’re able to prioritize your professional development a little more. Okay. [00:07:35.84] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So let’s take a step back where we get a little ahead, but that’s okay. Um Where what’s the, Alright. So you’ve already said this is confidential. It’s anonymous. All right. So it’s it’s really the best information we’re gonna get. Um it’s from all different, all different networks, so it’s people that are lateral to you, uh, working for you. Who you work for could be others. I mean, I don’t know in non profits. Might you go to you go to board members If there’s a relationship there, if there’s some liaison work there or something, [00:07:44.94] spk_0:
would you go [00:07:48.24] spk_1:
to maybe donors? Would you donors, volunteers that the person is working with or is that really not appropriate to ask them to participate in? [00:07:55.58] spk_0:
Yeah, I’ve not seen anybody go to donors, but definitely volunteers. If you’re if you’re working with them in a capacity where they’re going to see those skills at play. If you’re not working with them in that way, they wouldn’t make a good feedback provider. Right. [00:08:09.69] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So volunteers, donors that seems like a little much to ask [00:08:13.38] spk_0:
for to [00:08:22.14] spk_1:
rate the person that you rate the fundraiser that you work with or something. Okay, so let’s identify the benefits for the organization That would do a 360 assessment. [00:08:56.14] spk_0:
Sure. Yeah. So what I love about assessments is that they are strategic but also compassionate human center. Right? So when it comes to leadership development, professional development is especially important. You want your leaders to be better. You want them to be stronger for your organization and you want them to perform well. So assessing on those common leadership competencies gives a baseline that is both relevant to their work into your organization and practical. Um, but you also, if you think about the human center and piece of it, um, your leaders also have dreams. They also have goals beyond just your, their role at your organization. And so by having the 3 60 assessment, you’re able to assess those things, those competencies that are important for your organization, but you’re also giving them some ownership and what they do with that information. And so they’re able to tailor the action plan that they’re going to get out of this. They’re able to tailor that based on what their goals are within the organization as well. So whatever they decide to do will benefit the organization, but it will also be tailored to them and so they will benefit themselves, you know, their own development as well. [00:10:00.04] spk_1:
So, I’m gonna ask about some outliers, have you seen cases where the assessment was just so bad that the organization decided, you know, we gotta just let this person go, like we just we can’t, there’s no performance plan, there’s no action, there’s no action worksheet. That’s gonna that’s gonna that’s going to bring this person along. It’s it’s just hopeless. [00:10:49.44] spk_0:
Yeah. So I have not. My recommendation is not to use it to use a 360 assessment in a punitive way. Um and so you would only use 360 assessment if there’s someone that you want them to develop, you want to see them develop and grow within your organization. Um and in fact I recommend that the results are kept confidential between the participant and the coach and that no one else actually gets a copy of those results. I actually get that request a lot at the board level. If it’s the ceo that’s going through um the assessment process. The board chair will will want those results. My recommendation is not to do it that way. Um I also get a lot of requests for the 3 60 assessment to be the performance review. And that’s also not a great use of a 3 60 assessment. You want to do the performance review separately and then one of their goals through that performance review process might be to complete a 3 60 assessment. But again, only if you’re really invested in them growing and developing as a leader, not as a way to sort of move them out of the organization. [00:11:11.54] spk_1:
Uh, it’s counterintuitive not using the assessment as a performance uh, evaluation tool. What what why is that? Say? Say a little more about why that’s not recommended. [00:11:23.74] spk_0:
Yeah, I think so. For me, I think giving the 3 60 assessment to someone that you believe in and you are valuing their contributions, you’re going to have a lot better outcome. They’re going to be more honest in the assessment process. Their feedback providers are probably going to be more honest as well. And then they’re able to have a good honest conversation with their coach and they’re able to kind of lean into that vulnerability without constantly thinking. I’m going to get fired. Right. It’s actually really good useful information to grow. Um, and I would recommend 3 60 assessments for star performers, um, you know, just as much as I would for those that you are looking to develop a particular reason. [00:12:09.54] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um, so how do we get started with this uh, in the in the organization? I mean, if we’re gonna suppose we’re gonna do this enterprise wide and that could mean, you know, 456 employees for some listeners, it may mean hundreds of employees. [00:12:24.33] spk_0:
How [00:12:25.66] spk_1:
do we start this? Yeah. Where do we start? [00:13:34.24] spk_0:
Yeah. So every organization is different. They’re going to approach it in a slightly different way. Um, The I work with a vendor that hosts 3 60 assessments. So those assessments are already created, their standard, They exist for different types of leadership, so whether it’s the Ceo executive director or um whether it’s more of an individual contributor, individual contributor or something in between, they have assessments um that are tailored to each of those different um types of roles within an organization. So I would, you know, first look at how do you want to roll this out? A lot of organizations will start with maybe a senior leadership team um to show that there, you know, modeling what they what they would ask of their other staff and so they might start with a leadership team, have a small group, go through this process and then look at adding some additional staff to that. Um The only thing that you would want to consider really is um radio fatigue. So if in an organization you are going to be asking the same people to provide feedback to multiple people at the same time that can get a little bit fatiguing and then they might not be as honest or they might not take as much time as they go through the assessment because they’re just trying to get through all of them. So you want the Raiders, the people who are providing the feedback to feel like they have the time and um, you know, the energy to get through those assessments as well. [00:14:15.84] spk_1:
Yeah. Because if there’s a lot of people at the same level and you’re evaluating your peers, right? I mean you could have to be doing a lot of these. All right. So how do you overcome that spread spread out the time to give them more time to do. I mean, I suppose you have to do six or eight of these things. It [00:14:24.57] spk_0:
sounds pretty company. I would start with a smaller group and then as that group finishes, you could look at bringing in another group to complete the assessment. [00:14:51.14] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um, and then, so this is not something that sounds like it can be easily done in house. You’re saying you worked with a vendor that already has these these assessment tools published. It sounds like something that would be kind of hard to recreate in house and and do and do well. [00:15:18.64] spk_0:
I think it depends on just the resources of the organization. There are really good off the shelf assessments where you don’t have to spend the money to create something that’s accustomed to your organization. You can a lot of um, a lot of the vendors who offer off the shelf assessments can also do custom assessments for your organization. But it’s it’s a fairly resource heavy project because you want to make sure that whatever gets created is statistically relevant. It’s a valid assessment and all of that. And so, um, to do that a lot of times, it does take more time and more resources to make it happen. [00:15:32.84] spk_1:
What happens if there’s an outlier in the, in the Raiders, like one person rates somebody so high or so low compared to the other six or eight people that that rate, what happens to those outlier ratings? [00:16:44.24] spk_0:
That does happen from time to time? You’ll have somebody who, um, you know, every question just about is really high or really low. Um, you know, I as a coach, I might ask the participant, um, if they have any thoughts about why that might be the case and we might have some conversation around, you know, why someone might be rating really high or really low. It is anonymous. So unless it’s the supervisor, they’re probably not going to know who said, you know who it is that’s writing them. It sounds like, um, but you can have some good conversation that way. Sometimes it there’s not, you know, anything that comes to mind that would make someone um be completely different than the other Raiders. And so, um, you know, you’re going to kind of go with the, with the theme across. And so if most people are reading you at a four and then one person out of one, um, perhaps that one person had one particular experience that they’re calling to mind as they’re completing the assessment. And so that’s causing those scores, that’s the person you [00:16:54.48] spk_1:
keep their car when they took your parking space, [00:16:56.81] spk_0:
right? You never know, you never know. Uh, So it’s information, but it’s not necessarily the focus because the theme is that most people are reading you in that for [00:23:57.14] spk_1:
it’s time for a break. Turn to communications, you’ve heard me repeat the list of recent coverage outlets. People are getting coverage and you can too, the Chronicle of philanthropy, the new york Times, The Wall Street Journal. There’s more, there’s more, you know, it includes Usa Today and stanford Social Innovation Review and the Washington post in the Hill. You’ve heard it, you’ve heard the recitation, you want coverage like that. You want to be in outlets like these nonprofit quarterly Forbes Market Watch. You can turn to has the relationships to get you noticed to get you coverage to place you when it’s your turn, they got the relationships, they can make it happen. Turn to communications, your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s time for Tony’s take two sharing is still caring, who can you share? non profit radio with I was thinking it could be a lackluster colleague or maybe somebody who’s in another nonprofit or you know, a friend works elsewhere who you just happen to know is not at the speed mediocre lackluster because we’re talking this week about performance improvement. So whose performance do you want to improve? That’s the person you refer to? Nonprofit? radio They need to be listening. They got to up their game. They don’t want to be mediocre and lackluster any longer and you don’t want them to be, especially if they work in your shop, they’re dragging you down. It’s like when you used to, did you ever wait tables? Those who waited tables if if you did and sharing tips? Oh, that’s the worst. It was just last week, I wrapped it up just just late july uh years ago waiting tables. And we shared tips. The mediocre people bring you down and you know who they are. You know, you can hear them at the adjacent tables, the adjacent station. I was always mediocre. At one thing I was terrible, worse than mediocre. I was always terrible at cappuccinos when somebody ordered a cappuccino and I had to face that daunting high, highly polished copper machine with the nozzle for the milk and the foam and the knobs and the gotta press the espresso in right and just the right pressure. And milk has to be the right temperature. And this this machine just scared the hell out of me. Just to look at the thing, I didn’t even like walking by it. Like I would, I would get we get we get sweats. Just walking past it, let alone I had to face off with the thing when somebody ordered a cappuccino or God forbid a table table of four or six. Yeah, well all around our cappuccinos. Oh my God. Every other table in my station is going to be half an hour late now while I fight with this machine to get the milk to the right temperature in the foam and the right consistency and the ooh, cappuccinos. My death. I really, somebody who wrote a cappuccino. You sure you don’t want a limoncello? Have a limoncello said on the house. Give the table around limoncello shows if you will, you alone will just not get a cappuccino. All right, That was my bane as a waiter. But so, so, but that didn’t bring the tips down because everybody got free drinks because I hardly reported once. I got smart. Of course the house didn’t like it, but they never knew. Um, so, you know, so the tips are actually, we’re better because I was given free drinks for everybody to bribe them away from a single cappuccino. So that aside the, uh, the sharing of tips, I hated it. The poor performers were always dragging us down. We’re killing us every night and I could hear them. You know, they’re low energy. They forget what the specials are. They read the specials off their little, their parchment paper, little little note pad because they couldn’t afford to buy a new one because their tips are so low because they’re so poor and they were going to drag me down with them. Well, first of all, I didn’t use the little, I used to memorize the specials. I never liked looking at that because the thing gets red wine spilled on it and you know, it’s, it wouldn’t get cappuccino on because I didn’t know how to make them, but it might get milk on it as I was trying. So the poor performers, the poor performers in your nonprofit, I’m bringing it back. I’m bringing it back. Don’t worry. Uh huh. You know, they’re dragging you down. So you got to refer them to nonprofit radio That’s it. You want to raise the level of all the boats? Wait, you want to raise the level of the whole sea, right? You want to raise, you want to, you want to raise all the boats. You’ve got to raise the sea. That’s what it is. Or the yacht basin. So your organization, you’re not profit That’s the yacht basin. You gotta, you want to raise all the boats. You’ve got to raise the sea, refer these poor performers to nonprofit radio That’s the point. That’s where I’m headed. All right, cappuccinos and limoncello. So who can you refer? non profit radio too. I’d be grateful. Remember board members to if you got any friends, their board members, board members are great listeners. They use it to stimulate conversation to stimulate thinking. Very valuable. Plus anybody who works for a nonprofit, naturally, thank you. Thanks for thinking about it. Who you can refer. non profit radio to that is Tony is take two. Send in Blue. It’s an all in one digital marketing platform with the tools to help you build end to end digital campaigns that look professional, they’re affordable and they keep you organized digital campaign marketing, Most marketing software, huge price tag. Right? With that enterprise level. No, no. Send in. Blue is priced for nonprofits. You heard the ceo say it on the 5/100 show, there was only three shows ago. It’s an easy to use marketing platform to walk you through the steps of building a campaign. You want to try out sending blue and get the free month, go to the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for performance improvement and what form do people who are rated, get this information in? Is it something quantitative or is it narrative or both or what are they seeing? What’s each person who gets rated, seeing? [00:24:44.04] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. So um the vendor that I work with particularly um and I think this is true of other vendors that I’ve seen as well. Um there is data that’s involved. So you will be able to see for each question how you were rated, you’ll be able to compare those scores by the different radio groups. Um a lot of times there is um an opportunity to roll that data up as well so you can start to see overall what are my strengths and my development opportunities. Um And then there’s typically something a little more qualitative included as well where people can kind of open comments provide feedback and you can spend some time looking at that as well. [00:24:59.54] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um and let’s talk more about the coaching and the and maybe the work plan that goes along with improving areas that aren’t so strong um How long does that last or what does that look like? [00:25:57.64] spk_0:
Yeah. So um the assessment process itself can take a few weeks just to get that feedback. You know, you can do yourself assessment, you’re gonna invite your Raiders, they’re going to go in, provide their feedback, is going to generate the data, the report for you. Um And then the coaching session you want at least one that I would say is the absolute minimum want right to go through that data. Um If you’re really looking to see that person um that participant make progress on their action plan, so we’re making progress toward their goals. Then I definitely recommend looking at a longer term relationship with that coach because they can start to become an accountability partner. They can continue to prompt them to action, they can continue to help them think through how they’re going to apply what they’re learning on the job. And so there’s just a lot of value there. Um I would say that about that um does vary by organization as well. Um But if you want to see you know those results um and see the action being taken. Um I would say at least three months um Probably longer to to watch that behavior start to change. [00:26:29.24] spk_1:
Uh Tell us a story about an organization or it could be a person. Um I kind of like the organization level if you have a story like that, like what you saw, you know, you saw them go through this process and you saw improvement among keep people in the organization and they don’t have to be senior leaders. But you saw you saw improvement, you know, you saw a benefit come out of this whatever, eight months later, a year later, a year and a half later, you know share a little story. [00:28:33.14] spk_0:
Yeah. So um For I guess for anonymity sake I can share my own story because I have been through the 360 assessment process myself. So I when I went through through 60 assessment process, um some of the feedback that I received was that I needed to use my voice more that I had you know, good ideas when I spoke up and that I needed to, you know, speak up more and make sure that people heard and valued what, you know, whatever it was that I had to say. And it was something that it was a piece of feedback that I found very interesting because I felt like in some environments I was pretty quick to speak up to, you know, take a lead in something, um to have my voice heard, and then in other environments I might be a little less likely to do that and just kind of depended on the situation, what I was in a lot of cross functional project teams at the time, so, you know, what was my role on that project, who was leading that project? That kind of thing? To me, it all felt very strategic about when I was using my voice and when I wasn’t, but with that feedback, right, that’s information. So with that feedback I was able to um start to think about how do I want to use my voice? And um when do I want to use my voice? And what would it look like or what would it feel like to be heard in in different settings. And through that process, I was able to um more intentionally start speaking up not just in meetings, but also um, you know, one on one with my supervisor and say, you know, hey, I’m interested in this or I want to know more about this or I think we should do this or whatever the case is. And I was able to start using my voice a little more intentionally and within the organization. Um, and saw from a, from a career perspective, saw my own, my own career start to open up and and grow quite a bit from that. [00:28:51.94] spk_1:
And so the feedback you got wasn’t as nuanced as you would have, you would have thought it would be, like you said, certain situations you would deliberately reticent to speak up and others you were more vocal. But the feedback wasn’t that nuanced, [00:29:31.24] spk_0:
correct, correct. Because if my if you think about like my peers, they’re seeing me in different environments or my partners, I was working on a lot of cross functional teams. So I had partners from all over the organization that we’re providing feedback. And so depending on which projects I was working on, I might have been leading the project or I might have been just a contributor on the project. And so depending on what my role was, I was showing up differently in those settings. [00:29:46.54] spk_1:
Right? Each people, each person, so you differently. They didn’t they didn’t see the full breath. Right, all right. But overall you took it as I should speak up more, I should be more assertive I [00:29:49.74] spk_0:
guess. Okay, Absolutely, and just think about how I’m being perceived as well, right? Within a within a meeting or a team, [00:30:01.74] spk_1:
and then how about developing an action plan? Uh what what do you do that in conjunction with the coach, or how does that, how does that look? And how long is an action plan last? [00:31:11.44] spk_0:
Yeah, so I recommend doing that in conjunction with a coach, at least on that first coaching call to have um something in mind that you’re going to be working towards. So I typically go through kind of the who what when where why, how questions. So you know, what is it that you want to do? What you want to focus on, which confidence e is standing out to you? Which area are you believing that you want to develop in some way? Again, it could be enhancing um are leveraging a strength that could be enhancing something that’s a little bit weaker, but what is it that you want to work on and then how are you going to do that? Are you going to go to a trading? Are you going to participate in a leadership program? Are you going to start listening to podcasts like this one about, you know, whatever topic you’re trying to work on, what is it that you are going to commit to to develop that particular skill? Could be taking on a different project at work, right? That, you know, is going to challenge that skill set. So um thinking through your options and deciding how you want to develop that skill and then also without putting a timeline to it. So when when are you going to start, um what are the, you know, milestones that are going to be along the way? How long will it take you to complete whatever it is that you’re deciding you want to do? Um and then from there, who who’s gonna help you, who’s going to help hold you accountable, we know that most people don’t just change automatically. So you think about the number of people who don’t follow through on their New Year’s resolutions, right? It takes more than just knowing that you need to change or even sometimes having a desire to change. And so who can help you, Who can be that accountability partner for you to make sure that you’re working on this goal? And again, it could be the coach, but it could be someone else as well. Could be a supervisor, it could be appear um a partner even and someone just in your life that’s going to help help you, you know, work towards your goals. And so going through some of those questions, you’re able to put together an action plan that includes things like that timeline, how long you’re gonna be working on it? [00:32:27.04] spk_1:
What do we do for the folks who really just don’t take this feedback? Well, maybe there are strengths, but they’re not, they’re not acknowledging those, or maybe maybe they don’t have strengths identified. Uh let’s just say it’s objectively, it’s well, forget subjectively it’s taken as very bad. Forget how it looks objectively. The person has taken it very badly, very hard. [00:33:18.14] spk_0:
It happens. What do we do, what we do? So, a skilled coach will probably do one of two things. They killed your coach, I believe I’m a school coach, but it still coach will likely do one of two things. Um, one try to on that call get to at the bottom of that feeling, basically what’s causing it. Why am I getting such a reaction from this information? Um, just trying to understand perhaps there is something that is triggering the reaction beyond just what’s on the paper, so to speak. And so having that conversation can actually sometimes move people into a new place, a better place to have the conversation that you actually want to have another option. And another thing that is still coach might do is just asked to reschedule the call because sometimes [00:33:32.16] spk_1:
do [00:33:32.76] spk_0:
reschedule the call the [00:33:34.82] spk_1:
call. Okay, [00:34:02.34] spk_0:
Right. Because sometimes there’s just something whatever it is, whether it’s a data point or a comment that has been included in the feedback, something just hijacks you and you can’t move past it in that moment. But that doesn’t mean that two weeks from now, one week from now you wouldn’t be able to move past that. And so sometimes having some space can can be really beneficial. And so just saying you know what sounds like this is not gonna be a good time for us to have this conversation. Why don’t we reconnect on Tuesday and then you’re giving them some space to kind of think through in process what they’re what they’re learning in the assessment. [00:34:17.04] spk_1:
Okay. I can see how some people can take it hard. [00:34:19.24] spk_0:
Absolutely, absolutely right. There’s that one comment in the comment just really [00:34:24.61] spk_1:
maybe you’re even thinking I know who said [00:34:27.10] spk_0:
that. I know who that was. He killed me. Yes. People spend time trying to figure out who said what and it’s not that’s not the point right of the assessment. And so helping them move past that can can be part of the you [00:34:43.84] spk_1:
had people plead with you to tell you, oh come on. Who said that? [00:34:49.94] spk_0:
Well as a coach, I don’t know who said it. So [00:34:50.55] spk_1:
it’s anonymous to you. [00:35:04.34] spk_0:
It is I might know for the for the data points I know which group it came out of and they do too, but not necessarily for the open field comments. Um And so it’s you know, you can think about this all day but it doesn’t mean you’re going to get it right. And then what if you do what then what you know what’s going to change for you? How are you going to use that information? So now I’m now I’m blowing [00:35:14.18] spk_1:
this up. Like have there been cases of retaliation where somebody confronted somebody? I know you I know you’re the one who wrote this. [00:35:20.72] spk_0:
I would guess somewhere in the world that perhaps that is the case, but I have not experienced. Haven’t [00:35:29.32] spk_1:
seen that. Alright. No workplace blowups [00:35:31.92] spk_0:
or confrontations [00:35:37.94] spk_1:
Over 3 60 assessments. All right. All right. Um All right. What else, what else would you like us to know? We’ve still got we got some time left. What? Like what? I haven’t I asked you that you think folks should know about 360° feedback. [00:37:37.83] spk_0:
Yeah, I would just add that. So I work with with nonprofit leaders to help them create scalable learning strategies and um, you know, oftentimes when there is some sort of learning needs some sort of professional development need we go to training and I create training. So I’m biased. I I like it. I think it’s a great solution, but it’s a solution. And I think pairing any other sort of professional development program, um like a training with a 3 60 assessment is actually even more valuable because if you’re able to assess your skills first and then say here’s where I need to improve, here’s where I need to focus. And then you send them through say a leadership training, they have that skill set in mind as they’re going through that training, they’re focused on that particular skill set, whether it’s you know, communication or relationship building or whatever, they’re focused on that, they’re going to get that out of it and then you’re going to see some really intentional transformation because they had the assessment process first. So when I think about creating scalable learning strategies for organizations, it is thinking through that whole process, How can we make sure that we’re being strategic that the organization is getting what they need, but then also thinking about the individual within the audience. So things like 360 assessments combined with formal training combined with coaching um can actually be a really effective way to see people grow and develop. I think, you know, for me I think people are worthy of investment and then I think investing in your people make them feel valued and gives them a new new skills and a new passion for their work. Um and as leaders in our organizations, we get to create that environment, we get to create those opportunities so that our people can thrive. And so an assessment is one great tool that you can use in conjunction with many other tools to help your leaders grow and develop. [00:37:57.53] spk_1:
So then by coalescing all the assessment data for all the individual people, you’re saying you can target training enterprise wide that that helps lift lift skill deficits that that are like common across lots of people in the organization. [00:38:06.32] spk_0:
You can you can even if you have a general leadership program, if you’re individuals have gone through the 3 60 assessment process, they’re looking to develop particular skills. And so they’re going to be looking to find that you often find what you’re looking for. Right? So they’re going to be looking to find whatever that is in a leadership program. So even if it’s a more general program that you’re offering or you’re sending people to the 3 60 assessment gives that individual information so that they look for that when they’re in that program. [00:38:39.11] spk_1:
Yeah. Right, Right. As you said, they’re looking they find what they’re looking for. [00:38:44.29] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. [00:38:46.82] spk_1:
Okay. All right. We’ll leave it there heather. What do you think? [00:38:49.42] spk_0:
That sounds good? tony Thanks for having me. [00:38:57.52] spk_1:
It’s my pleasure. Absolutely heather. Bright Founder and Ceo of skill. Masters Market. The company is at skill masters market dot com and she is at heather burr. Right, thank you again heather, [00:39:05.52] spk_0:
thanks tony [00:40:36.32] spk_1:
next week. The final 21 ntc show. If you missed any part of this week’s show, this my voice just crack like I’m 14 this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. You think I would go back and audacity and take out the, uh, the voice cracking. But no, I’m a human. My voice cracks. You know, that’s, that’s the way it is. We’re, you were not striving for perfection. I mean, I’m striving to be good, but perfection. You got a lackluster host, you know, that were sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c O. Yeah, I do strive to make the show is better each week, naturally. I mean I am, I am uh, aiming high but perfection. Mm I don’t think we’re gonna get there together. We’re also sponsored by sending blue, the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. Here we go. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. The show’s social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott Stein. Yeah, thank you for that information scotty. He wrote me next week for nonprofit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great. Yeah.
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[00:00:02.84] spk_0:
Hello
And welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of inguinal hernia if I had to stomach the idea that you missed this week’s show performance improvement, do you want to get the best out of your teams? That means getting the best from each player. Heather Burr right, recommends 360 degree feedback and she takes you full circle She’s Ceo of skill Masters Market On Tony’s take two sharing, still is caring. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C o. And by sending blue the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue, what do you say? We get started. I want you to know we have a shorter show this week, it’s gonna be about 35 minutes. Okay, here is performance improvement. It’s my pleasure to welcome heather Barr. Right. She is founder and Ceo of skill Masters Market Creating dynamic people centric solutions that drive business goals. She has 15 years of experience identifying core competencies that are needed to see real results and creating the learning strategies needed to develop them. The company is at skill masters market dot com and heather is at heather burr. Right heather, welcome to nonprofit radio [00:02:01.64] spk_0:
Hey Tony. Thanks for having me. [00:02:03.54] spk_1:
It’s a pleasure, absolute pleasure. [00:02:05.31] spk_0:
We’re talking about, [00:02:12.94] spk_1:
we’re talking about performance improvement and you use this tool called 360 Degree Feedback. [00:02:16.34] spk_0:
So let’s start [00:02:17.37] spk_1:
With the Basics. What’s an overview of 360° feedback? [00:02:59.24] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. Um so 360° feedback at 360 assessment is a great way to get feedback. It’s exactly what it sounds like to get feedback with that 360° view. So you can invite people like your supervisor, your peers, your direct reports, um other colleagues or partners. And you can get anonymous feedback all in one place and then you have some good comparison data. So you can see how you’re being perceived. There’s also a self survey as part of that. So you can compare how you’re being perceived to how you’re perceiving yourself. And it just gives you really rich information so that as you start to think about what do I want to work on, where do I want to invest? My time, my energy, my resources. You have some really good data to work with it to help inform. That’s you can prioritize your professional development a little better. [00:03:18.44] spk_1:
That sounds very interesting to uh compare what you think of yourself to what others think of you. Do. You have you actually been doing this many years? You see a lot of um disparities a lot of in congruence between self assessment and the assessment that others have provided. [00:03:33.54] spk_0:
There there can be for sure. I actually with 360 assessment, I feel like [00:03:38.25] spk_1:
living in deep denial. Maybe [00:04:30.84] spk_0:
It happens with 360 assessment. I feel like how you show up to different groups of people can intentionally be different. So what your supervisor sees may be different from what your direct reports see or what your pure C. And that might be okay. So it’s about taking that information, finding those discrepancies, finding that alignment and then interpreting it for your own your own work, your own lifestyle and and how you want to be. You know, showing up to all of those different groups. I actually do something and it’s not for for today’s conversation, but I actually do something called an intercultural development inventory, the I. D. I. A qualified administrator for them. And that assesses intercultural confidence. And there’s actually I’ve seen a greater disparity in that assessment than in 3 60 assessment assessments which typically assess more general or more common leadership competencies. [00:04:51.74] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So in the intercultural intercultural assessment, people perceive themselves as more aware, sensitive conscious than they are perceived by others, correct? Yeah. Alright. Not surprised [00:04:55.72] spk_0:
we do that a lot. Right. We do it for me. That’s why, you know, we all think we’re [00:05:01.97] spk_1:
well, we all think we’re great people. [00:05:11.24] spk_0:
We do and we are right there. We all have great skill sets and things that we can offer the world. But I think if you think about your to do list, right. A lot of us will tend to put too many things on our plate and then we wonder why we can’t accomplish at all. It’s because our perception is not always matched to our reality. [00:05:26.44] spk_1:
Yeah, perception and reality diverge greatly. Okay, that could be this could be fodder for therapy to [00:05:29.44] spk_0:
uh [00:05:47.24] spk_1:
but but when we’re gonna talk about coaching, because coaching, you know, you need I gather you need somebody to help you assess all this input that’s coming in and especially if you’re deeply divergent between what you think and what others think. You know, I can see how coaching would be critical so that you don’t jump off a cliff with these results. [00:07:12.64] spk_0:
Yes, Absolutely. With 3 60 assessment, I recommend going through the assessment process which just helps to increase your own self awareness where you are, where you want to be and then working with a coach to help prompt you to action. So in the awareness face and you know, you’re taking this assessment process, it’s anonymous feedback. So it’s feedback that you’re not necessarily going to get anywhere else. Most people aren’t going to just walk up to you and say your communication skills are not as good as you think they are. So it’s feedback that you’re not necessarily going to get anywhere else. And it can show that those discrepancies in that alignment which is really, really helpful. It brings a lot of self awareness to the table. But then during that coaching session you can start to identify action, focus on the action that you want to take. So you’re able to identify, you know, which skills are most essential to your current role and how did you do on those skills or which skills are most essential to a future role if you want to look at it from a future perspective, I know I want to move into this other position and his other role. And so what skills are going to be most important there? What do I need to work on to get there? And so you can start to consider what you might need to leverage, what are your strongest skills are, but also what you might need to enhance as you move forward. And then those skills which are identifying with that coach can become part of a custom action plan that you have. So again, you’re able to prioritize your professional development a little more. Okay. [00:07:35.84] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So let’s take a step back where we get a little ahead, but that’s okay. Um Where what’s the, Alright. So you’ve already said this is confidential. It’s anonymous. All right. So it’s it’s really the best information we’re gonna get. Um it’s from all different, all different networks, so it’s people that are lateral to you, uh, working for you. Who you work for could be others. I mean, I don’t know in non profits. Might you go to you go to board members If there’s a relationship there, if there’s some liaison work there or something, [00:07:44.94] spk_0:
would you go [00:07:48.24] spk_1:
to maybe donors? Would you donors, volunteers that the person is working with or is that really not appropriate to ask them to participate in? [00:07:55.58] spk_0:
Yeah, I’ve not seen anybody go to donors, but definitely volunteers. If you’re if you’re working with them in a capacity where they’re going to see those skills at play. If you’re not working with them in that way, they wouldn’t make a good feedback provider. Right. [00:08:09.69] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So volunteers, donors that seems like a little much to ask [00:08:13.38] spk_0:
for to [00:08:22.14] spk_1:
rate the person that you rate the fundraiser that you work with or something. Okay, so let’s identify the benefits for the organization That would do a 360 assessment. [00:08:56.14] spk_0:
Sure. Yeah. So what I love about assessments is that they are strategic but also compassionate human center. Right? So when it comes to leadership development, professional development is especially important. You want your leaders to be better. You want them to be stronger for your organization and you want them to perform well. So assessing on those common leadership competencies gives a baseline that is both relevant to their work into your organization and practical. Um, but you also, if you think about the human center and piece of it, um, your leaders also have dreams. They also have goals beyond just your, their role at your organization. And so by having the 3 60 assessment, you’re able to assess those things, those competencies that are important for your organization, but you’re also giving them some ownership and what they do with that information. And so they’re able to tailor the action plan that they’re going to get out of this. They’re able to tailor that based on what their goals are within the organization as well. So whatever they decide to do will benefit the organization, but it will also be tailored to them and so they will benefit themselves, you know, their own development as well. [00:10:00.04] spk_1:
So, I’m gonna ask about some outliers, have you seen cases where the assessment was just so bad that the organization decided, you know, we gotta just let this person go, like we just we can’t, there’s no performance plan, there’s no action, there’s no action worksheet. That’s gonna that’s gonna that’s going to bring this person along. It’s it’s just hopeless. [00:10:49.44] spk_0:
Yeah. So I have not. My recommendation is not to use it to use a 360 assessment in a punitive way. Um and so you would only use 360 assessment if there’s someone that you want them to develop, you want to see them develop and grow within your organization. Um and in fact I recommend that the results are kept confidential between the participant and the coach and that no one else actually gets a copy of those results. I actually get that request a lot at the board level. If it’s the ceo that’s going through um the assessment process. The board chair will will want those results. My recommendation is not to do it that way. Um I also get a lot of requests for the 3 60 assessment to be the performance review. And that’s also not a great use of a 3 60 assessment. You want to do the performance review separately and then one of their goals through that performance review process might be to complete a 3 60 assessment. But again, only if you’re really invested in them growing and developing as a leader, not as a way to sort of move them out of the organization. [00:11:11.54] spk_1:
Uh, it’s counterintuitive not using the assessment as a performance uh, evaluation tool. What what why is that? Say? Say a little more about why that’s not recommended. [00:11:23.74] spk_0:
Yeah, I think so. For me, I think giving the 3 60 assessment to someone that you believe in and you are valuing their contributions, you’re going to have a lot better outcome. They’re going to be more honest in the assessment process. Their feedback providers are probably going to be more honest as well. And then they’re able to have a good honest conversation with their coach and they’re able to kind of lean into that vulnerability without constantly thinking. I’m going to get fired. Right. It’s actually really good useful information to grow. Um, and I would recommend 3 60 assessments for star performers, um, you know, just as much as I would for those that you are looking to develop a particular reason. [00:12:09.54] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um, so how do we get started with this uh, in the in the organization? I mean, if we’re gonna suppose we’re gonna do this enterprise wide and that could mean, you know, 456 employees for some listeners, it may mean hundreds of employees. [00:12:24.33] spk_0:
How [00:12:25.66] spk_1:
do we start this? Yeah. Where do we start? [00:13:34.24] spk_0:
Yeah. So every organization is different. They’re going to approach it in a slightly different way. Um, The I work with a vendor that hosts 3 60 assessments. So those assessments are already created, their standard, They exist for different types of leadership, so whether it’s the Ceo executive director or um whether it’s more of an individual contributor, individual contributor or something in between, they have assessments um that are tailored to each of those different um types of roles within an organization. So I would, you know, first look at how do you want to roll this out? A lot of organizations will start with maybe a senior leadership team um to show that there, you know, modeling what they what they would ask of their other staff and so they might start with a leadership team, have a small group, go through this process and then look at adding some additional staff to that. Um The only thing that you would want to consider really is um radio fatigue. So if in an organization you are going to be asking the same people to provide feedback to multiple people at the same time that can get a little bit fatiguing and then they might not be as honest or they might not take as much time as they go through the assessment because they’re just trying to get through all of them. So you want the Raiders, the people who are providing the feedback to feel like they have the time and um, you know, the energy to get through those assessments as well. [00:14:15.84] spk_1:
Yeah. Because if there’s a lot of people at the same level and you’re evaluating your peers, right? I mean you could have to be doing a lot of these. All right. So how do you overcome that spread spread out the time to give them more time to do. I mean, I suppose you have to do six or eight of these things. It [00:14:24.57] spk_0:
sounds pretty company. I would start with a smaller group and then as that group finishes, you could look at bringing in another group to complete the assessment. [00:14:51.14] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um, and then, so this is not something that sounds like it can be easily done in house. You’re saying you worked with a vendor that already has these these assessment tools published. It sounds like something that would be kind of hard to recreate in house and and do and do well. [00:15:18.64] spk_0:
I think it depends on just the resources of the organization. There are really good off the shelf assessments where you don’t have to spend the money to create something that’s accustomed to your organization. You can a lot of um, a lot of the vendors who offer off the shelf assessments can also do custom assessments for your organization. But it’s it’s a fairly resource heavy project because you want to make sure that whatever gets created is statistically relevant. It’s a valid assessment and all of that. And so, um, to do that a lot of times, it does take more time and more resources to make it happen. [00:15:32.84] spk_1:
What happens if there’s an outlier in the, in the Raiders, like one person rates somebody so high or so low compared to the other six or eight people that that rate, what happens to those outlier ratings? [00:16:44.24] spk_0:
That does happen from time to time? You’ll have somebody who, um, you know, every question just about is really high or really low. Um, you know, I as a coach, I might ask the participant, um, if they have any thoughts about why that might be the case and we might have some conversation around, you know, why someone might be rating really high or really low. It is anonymous. So unless it’s the supervisor, they’re probably not going to know who said, you know who it is that’s writing them. It sounds like, um, but you can have some good conversation that way. Sometimes it there’s not, you know, anything that comes to mind that would make someone um be completely different than the other Raiders. And so, um, you know, you’re going to kind of go with the, with the theme across. And so if most people are reading you at a four and then one person out of one, um, perhaps that one person had one particular experience that they’re calling to mind as they’re completing the assessment. And so that’s causing those scores, that’s the person you [00:16:54.48] spk_1:
keep their car when they took your parking space, [00:16:56.81] spk_0:
right? You never know, you never know. Uh, So it’s information, but it’s not necessarily the focus because the theme is that most people are reading you in that for [00:23:57.14] spk_1:
it’s time for a break. Turn to communications, you’ve heard me repeat the list of recent coverage outlets. People are getting coverage and you can too, the Chronicle of philanthropy, the new york Times, The Wall Street Journal. There’s more, there’s more, you know, it includes Usa Today and stanford Social Innovation Review and the Washington post in the Hill. You’ve heard it, you’ve heard the recitation, you want coverage like that. You want to be in outlets like these nonprofit quarterly Forbes Market Watch. You can turn to has the relationships to get you noticed to get you coverage to place you when it’s your turn, they got the relationships, they can make it happen. Turn to communications, your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s time for Tony’s take two sharing is still caring, who can you share? non profit radio with I was thinking it could be a lackluster colleague or maybe somebody who’s in another nonprofit or you know, a friend works elsewhere who you just happen to know is not at the speed mediocre lackluster because we’re talking this week about performance improvement. So whose performance do you want to improve? That’s the person you refer to? Nonprofit? radio They need to be listening. They got to up their game. They don’t want to be mediocre and lackluster any longer and you don’t want them to be, especially if they work in your shop, they’re dragging you down. It’s like when you used to, did you ever wait tables? Those who waited tables if if you did and sharing tips? Oh, that’s the worst. It was just last week, I wrapped it up just just late july uh years ago waiting tables. And we shared tips. The mediocre people bring you down and you know who they are. You know, you can hear them at the adjacent tables, the adjacent station. I was always mediocre. At one thing I was terrible, worse than mediocre. I was always terrible at cappuccinos when somebody ordered a cappuccino and I had to face that daunting high, highly polished copper machine with the nozzle for the milk and the foam and the knobs and the gotta press the espresso in right and just the right pressure. And milk has to be the right temperature. And this this machine just scared the hell out of me. Just to look at the thing, I didn’t even like walking by it. Like I would, I would get we get we get sweats. Just walking past it, let alone I had to face off with the thing when somebody ordered a cappuccino or God forbid a table table of four or six. Yeah, well all around our cappuccinos. Oh my God. Every other table in my station is going to be half an hour late now while I fight with this machine to get the milk to the right temperature in the foam and the right consistency and the ooh, cappuccinos. My death. I really, somebody who wrote a cappuccino. You sure you don’t want a limoncello? Have a limoncello said on the house. Give the table around limoncello shows if you will, you alone will just not get a cappuccino. All right, That was my bane as a waiter. But so, so, but that didn’t bring the tips down because everybody got free drinks because I hardly reported once. I got smart. Of course the house didn’t like it, but they never knew. Um, so, you know, so the tips are actually, we’re better because I was given free drinks for everybody to bribe them away from a single cappuccino. So that aside the, uh, the sharing of tips, I hated it. The poor performers were always dragging us down. We’re killing us every night and I could hear them. You know, they’re low energy. They forget what the specials are. They read the specials off their little, their parchment paper, little little note pad because they couldn’t afford to buy a new one because their tips are so low because they’re so poor and they were going to drag me down with them. Well, first of all, I didn’t use the little, I used to memorize the specials. I never liked looking at that because the thing gets red wine spilled on it and you know, it’s, it wouldn’t get cappuccino on because I didn’t know how to make them, but it might get milk on it as I was trying. So the poor performers, the poor performers in your nonprofit, I’m bringing it back. I’m bringing it back. Don’t worry. Uh huh. You know, they’re dragging you down. So you got to refer them to nonprofit radio That’s it. You want to raise the level of all the boats? Wait, you want to raise the level of the whole sea, right? You want to raise, you want to, you want to raise all the boats. You’ve got to raise the sea. That’s what it is. Or the yacht basin. So your organization, you’re not profit That’s the yacht basin. You gotta, you want to raise all the boats. You’ve got to raise the sea, refer these poor performers to nonprofit radio That’s the point. That’s where I’m headed. All right, cappuccinos and limoncello. So who can you refer? non profit radio too. I’d be grateful. Remember board members to if you got any friends, their board members, board members are great listeners. They use it to stimulate conversation to stimulate thinking. Very valuable. Plus anybody who works for a nonprofit, naturally, thank you. Thanks for thinking about it. Who you can refer. non profit radio to that is Tony is take two. Send in Blue. It’s an all in one digital marketing platform with the tools to help you build end to end digital campaigns that look professional, they’re affordable and they keep you organized digital campaign marketing, Most marketing software, huge price tag. Right? With that enterprise level. No, no. Send in. Blue is priced for nonprofits. You heard the ceo say it on the 5/100 show, there was only three shows ago. It’s an easy to use marketing platform to walk you through the steps of building a campaign. You want to try out sending blue and get the free month, go to the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for performance improvement and what form do people who are rated, get this information in? Is it something quantitative or is it narrative or both or what are they seeing? What’s each person who gets rated, seeing? [00:24:44.04] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. So um the vendor that I work with particularly um and I think this is true of other vendors that I’ve seen as well. Um there is data that’s involved. So you will be able to see for each question how you were rated, you’ll be able to compare those scores by the different radio groups. Um a lot of times there is um an opportunity to roll that data up as well so you can start to see overall what are my strengths and my development opportunities. Um And then there’s typically something a little more qualitative included as well where people can kind of open comments provide feedback and you can spend some time looking at that as well. [00:24:59.54] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um and let’s talk more about the coaching and the and maybe the work plan that goes along with improving areas that aren’t so strong um How long does that last or what does that look like? [00:25:57.64] spk_0:
Yeah. So um the assessment process itself can take a few weeks just to get that feedback. You know, you can do yourself assessment, you’re gonna invite your Raiders, they’re going to go in, provide their feedback, is going to generate the data, the report for you. Um And then the coaching session you want at least one that I would say is the absolute minimum want right to go through that data. Um If you’re really looking to see that person um that participant make progress on their action plan, so we’re making progress toward their goals. Then I definitely recommend looking at a longer term relationship with that coach because they can start to become an accountability partner. They can continue to prompt them to action, they can continue to help them think through how they’re going to apply what they’re learning on the job. And so there’s just a lot of value there. Um I would say that about that um does vary by organization as well. Um But if you want to see you know those results um and see the action being taken. Um I would say at least three months um Probably longer to to watch that behavior start to change. [00:26:29.24] spk_1:
Uh Tell us a story about an organization or it could be a person. Um I kind of like the organization level if you have a story like that, like what you saw, you know, you saw them go through this process and you saw improvement among keep people in the organization and they don’t have to be senior leaders. But you saw you saw improvement, you know, you saw a benefit come out of this whatever, eight months later, a year later, a year and a half later, you know share a little story. [00:28:33.14] spk_0:
Yeah. So um For I guess for anonymity sake I can share my own story because I have been through the 360 assessment process myself. So I when I went through through 60 assessment process, um some of the feedback that I received was that I needed to use my voice more that I had you know, good ideas when I spoke up and that I needed to, you know, speak up more and make sure that people heard and valued what, you know, whatever it was that I had to say. And it was something that it was a piece of feedback that I found very interesting because I felt like in some environments I was pretty quick to speak up to, you know, take a lead in something, um to have my voice heard, and then in other environments I might be a little less likely to do that and just kind of depended on the situation, what I was in a lot of cross functional project teams at the time, so, you know, what was my role on that project, who was leading that project? That kind of thing? To me, it all felt very strategic about when I was using my voice and when I wasn’t, but with that feedback, right, that’s information. So with that feedback I was able to um start to think about how do I want to use my voice? And um when do I want to use my voice? And what would it look like or what would it feel like to be heard in in different settings. And through that process, I was able to um more intentionally start speaking up not just in meetings, but also um, you know, one on one with my supervisor and say, you know, hey, I’m interested in this or I want to know more about this or I think we should do this or whatever the case is. And I was able to start using my voice a little more intentionally and within the organization. Um, and saw from a, from a career perspective, saw my own, my own career start to open up and and grow quite a bit from that. [00:28:51.94] spk_1:
And so the feedback you got wasn’t as nuanced as you would have, you would have thought it would be, like you said, certain situations you would deliberately reticent to speak up and others you were more vocal. But the feedback wasn’t that nuanced, [00:29:31.24] spk_0:
correct, correct. Because if my if you think about like my peers, they’re seeing me in different environments or my partners, I was working on a lot of cross functional teams. So I had partners from all over the organization that we’re providing feedback. And so depending on which projects I was working on, I might have been leading the project or I might have been just a contributor on the project. And so depending on what my role was, I was showing up differently in those settings. [00:29:46.54] spk_1:
Right? Each people, each person, so you differently. They didn’t they didn’t see the full breath. Right, all right. But overall you took it as I should speak up more, I should be more assertive I [00:29:49.74] spk_0:
guess. Okay, Absolutely, and just think about how I’m being perceived as well, right? Within a within a meeting or a team, [00:30:01.74] spk_1:
and then how about developing an action plan? Uh what what do you do that in conjunction with the coach, or how does that, how does that look? And how long is an action plan last? [00:31:11.44] spk_0:
Yeah, so I recommend doing that in conjunction with a coach, at least on that first coaching call to have um something in mind that you’re going to be working towards. So I typically go through kind of the who what when where why, how questions. So you know, what is it that you want to do? What you want to focus on, which confidence e is standing out to you? Which area are you believing that you want to develop in some way? Again, it could be enhancing um are leveraging a strength that could be enhancing something that’s a little bit weaker, but what is it that you want to work on and then how are you going to do that? Are you going to go to a trading? Are you going to participate in a leadership program? Are you going to start listening to podcasts like this one about, you know, whatever topic you’re trying to work on, what is it that you are going to commit to to develop that particular skill? Could be taking on a different project at work, right? That, you know, is going to challenge that skill set. So um thinking through your options and deciding how you want to develop that skill and then also without putting a timeline to it. So when when are you going to start, um what are the, you know, milestones that are going to be along the way? How long will it take you to complete whatever it is that you’re deciding you want to do? Um and then from there, who who’s gonna help you, who’s going to help hold you accountable, we know that most people don’t just change automatically. So you think about the number of people who don’t follow through on their New Year’s resolutions, right? It takes more than just knowing that you need to change or even sometimes having a desire to change. And so who can help you, Who can be that accountability partner for you to make sure that you’re working on this goal? And again, it could be the coach, but it could be someone else as well. Could be a supervisor, it could be appear um a partner even and someone just in your life that’s going to help help you, you know, work towards your goals. And so going through some of those questions, you’re able to put together an action plan that includes things like that timeline, how long you’re gonna be working on it? [00:32:27.04] spk_1:
What do we do for the folks who really just don’t take this feedback? Well, maybe there are strengths, but they’re not, they’re not acknowledging those, or maybe maybe they don’t have strengths identified. Uh let’s just say it’s objectively, it’s well, forget subjectively it’s taken as very bad. Forget how it looks objectively. The person has taken it very badly, very hard. [00:33:18.14] spk_0:
It happens. What do we do, what we do? So, a skilled coach will probably do one of two things. They killed your coach, I believe I’m a school coach, but it still coach will likely do one of two things. Um, one try to on that call get to at the bottom of that feeling, basically what’s causing it. Why am I getting such a reaction from this information? Um, just trying to understand perhaps there is something that is triggering the reaction beyond just what’s on the paper, so to speak. And so having that conversation can actually sometimes move people into a new place, a better place to have the conversation that you actually want to have another option. And another thing that is still coach might do is just asked to reschedule the call because sometimes [00:33:32.16] spk_1:
do [00:33:32.76] spk_0:
reschedule the call the [00:33:34.82] spk_1:
call. Okay, [00:34:02.34] spk_0:
Right. Because sometimes there’s just something whatever it is, whether it’s a data point or a comment that has been included in the feedback, something just hijacks you and you can’t move past it in that moment. But that doesn’t mean that two weeks from now, one week from now you wouldn’t be able to move past that. And so sometimes having some space can can be really beneficial. And so just saying you know what sounds like this is not gonna be a good time for us to have this conversation. Why don’t we reconnect on Tuesday and then you’re giving them some space to kind of think through in process what they’re what they’re learning in the assessment. [00:34:17.04] spk_1:
Okay. I can see how some people can take it hard. [00:34:19.24] spk_0:
Absolutely, absolutely right. There’s that one comment in the comment just really [00:34:24.61] spk_1:
maybe you’re even thinking I know who said [00:34:27.10] spk_0:
that. I know who that was. He killed me. Yes. People spend time trying to figure out who said what and it’s not that’s not the point right of the assessment. And so helping them move past that can can be part of the you [00:34:43.84] spk_1:
had people plead with you to tell you, oh come on. Who said that? [00:34:49.94] spk_0:
Well as a coach, I don’t know who said it. So [00:34:50.55] spk_1:
it’s anonymous to you. [00:35:04.34] spk_0:
It is I might know for the for the data points I know which group it came out of and they do too, but not necessarily for the open field comments. Um And so it’s you know, you can think about this all day but it doesn’t mean you’re going to get it right. And then what if you do what then what you know what’s going to change for you? How are you going to use that information? So now I’m now I’m blowing [00:35:14.18] spk_1:
this up. Like have there been cases of retaliation where somebody confronted somebody? I know you I know you’re the one who wrote this. [00:35:20.72] spk_0:
I would guess somewhere in the world that perhaps that is the case, but I have not experienced. Haven’t [00:35:29.32] spk_1:
seen that. Alright. No workplace blowups [00:35:31.92] spk_0:
or confrontations [00:35:37.94] spk_1:
Over 3 60 assessments. All right. All right. Um All right. What else, what else would you like us to know? We’ve still got we got some time left. What? Like what? I haven’t I asked you that you think folks should know about 360° feedback. [00:37:37.83] spk_0:
Yeah, I would just add that. So I work with with nonprofit leaders to help them create scalable learning strategies and um, you know, oftentimes when there is some sort of learning needs some sort of professional development need we go to training and I create training. So I’m biased. I I like it. I think it’s a great solution, but it’s a solution. And I think pairing any other sort of professional development program, um like a training with a 3 60 assessment is actually even more valuable because if you’re able to assess your skills first and then say here’s where I need to improve, here’s where I need to focus. And then you send them through say a leadership training, they have that skill set in mind as they’re going through that training, they’re focused on that particular skill set, whether it’s you know, communication or relationship building or whatever, they’re focused on that, they’re going to get that out of it and then you’re going to see some really intentional transformation because they had the assessment process first. So when I think about creating scalable learning strategies for organizations, it is thinking through that whole process, How can we make sure that we’re being strategic that the organization is getting what they need, but then also thinking about the individual within the audience. So things like 360 assessments combined with formal training combined with coaching um can actually be a really effective way to see people grow and develop. I think, you know, for me I think people are worthy of investment and then I think investing in your people make them feel valued and gives them a new new skills and a new passion for their work. Um and as leaders in our organizations, we get to create that environment, we get to create those opportunities so that our people can thrive. And so an assessment is one great tool that you can use in conjunction with many other tools to help your leaders grow and develop. [00:37:57.53] spk_1:
So then by coalescing all the assessment data for all the individual people, you’re saying you can target training enterprise wide that that helps lift lift skill deficits that that are like common across lots of people in the organization. [00:38:06.32] spk_0:
You can you can even if you have a general leadership program, if you’re individuals have gone through the 3 60 assessment process, they’re looking to develop particular skills. And so they’re going to be looking to find that you often find what you’re looking for. Right? So they’re going to be looking to find whatever that is in a leadership program. So even if it’s a more general program that you’re offering or you’re sending people to the 3 60 assessment gives that individual information so that they look for that when they’re in that program. [00:38:39.11] spk_1:
Yeah. Right, Right. As you said, they’re looking they find what they’re looking for. [00:38:44.29] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. [00:38:46.82] spk_1:
Okay. All right. We’ll leave it there heather. What do you think? [00:38:49.42] spk_0:
That sounds good? tony Thanks for having me. [00:38:57.52] spk_1:
It’s my pleasure. Absolutely heather. Bright Founder and Ceo of skill. Masters Market. The company is at skill masters market dot com and she is at heather burr. Right, thank you again heather, [00:39:05.52] spk_0:
thanks tony [00:40:36.32] spk_1:
next week. The final 21 ntc show. If you missed any part of this week’s show, this my voice just crack like I’m 14 this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. You think I would go back and audacity and take out the, uh, the voice cracking. But no, I’m a human. My voice cracks. You know, that’s, that’s the way it is. We’re, you were not striving for perfection. I mean, I’m striving to be good, but perfection. You got a lackluster host, you know, that were sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c O. Yeah, I do strive to make the show is better each week, naturally. I mean I am, I am uh, aiming high but perfection. Mm I don’t think we’re gonna get there together. We’re also sponsored by sending blue, the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. Here we go. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. The show’s social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott Stein. Yeah, thank you for that information scotty. He wrote me next week for nonprofit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great. Yeah.
