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Tony’s Guests:Nancy Johnson & Bill McGinley: Grow Your Grateful Patient Program
Bill McGinley, president and CEO of The Association for Healthcare Philanthropy (AHP) and Nancy Johnson, senior consultant at Target Analytics, sat with me at the bbcon conference to talk about healthcare grateful patient fundraising: why these prospects are critical and very generous; privacy concerns; and, how to start the relationship.
Charities want to help Hurricane Sandy victims. In the rush to help you can’t ignore the rules around private benefit, needs assessment and documentation. You’ll be on the right path with our regular legal contributors Gene Takagi and Emily Chan, from the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group.
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Here is a link to the audio: 116: Grow Your Grateful Patient Program & Disaster Relief. You can also subscribe on iTunes to get the podcast automatically.
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Dahna hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host. My thoughts this week, of course, are with everybody affected by sandy up and down the northeast than into western new york, the finger lakes and ohio. My thoughts are with you, i am calling in from north carolina because i couldn’t get back home in time to do the show. So what? We have a show and we’re proceeding, i hope you’re with me last week. Oh, it would hurt me deeply tto learn that you had missed a conversation with janet eggers she’s, a senior vice president of products and marketing for blackbaud at their bb con conference last month, we talked about what’s coming in the non-profit technology market, special considerations for purchasing technology and leadership lessons that she learned from being a triathlete. Also gps global positioning. Scott scott koegler is the editor of non-profit technology news in our technology contributor, we talked about location based services that use the gps technology in your smartphone. Four square, instagram, yelp and facebook places are examples of sites that you can learn from your partner. With to get to know your donors and volunteers better this week grow your grateful patient program bill mcginley, president and ceo of the association for healthcare philanthropy, hp and nancy johnson, senior consultant at target analytics, sat with me at the bb con conference to talk about health care, grateful patient fund-raising why these prospects are critical and very generous privacy concerns and how to start your relationship. Also, disaster relief charities want to help hurricane sandy victims, but in the rush to help, you can’t ignore the rules around private benefit needs assessment and documentation, you’ll be on the right path with our legal contributors, jean takagi and emily chan from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group between the guests on tony’s take two i have a bunch of sandy disaster relief organizations that are doing very good work, and i’ll share some of those. If you’re on twitter, you could be using the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us. You take a break and when we get back, we’ll go right into grow your grateful patient program stay with me! They didn’t think dick tooting getting dink dink dink dink you’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. E-giving, you could joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city in pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot or or a nj dot net. Hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family, court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more. Dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever. Join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah. Geever. Durney durney welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of bb khan twenty twelve we’re in maryland, just outside washington, d c my guests are nancy johnson she’s, a senior consultant, target analytics, blackboard company, and bill mcginley, president and ceo association for healthcare philanthropy, both of you. Nancy bill, welcome, thanks for taking time on a busy day. Delighted fundez your seminar topic is best practices for successful healthcare fund-raising strategically grow your grateful patient program. Bill president, ceo of association for health careful answer. I’d like to get the articles right that got you surrounded. Details report. I like the articles. Why is a grateful patient program critical to healthcare? Fund-raising let’s start with basics in health care and our group, particularly those were representing providers, hospitals, medical centers, long term care, hospice and such. The group that is connected that has had an experience that has been touched by the provider is a very important group. They’re very generous, they are involved. They know what the organization is about, what it can provide. So there they are more generous, the average member of the public simply because they’ve had an experience with the institution they know what it’s like they are part of a major part of the family, which is the physicians, the employees, the governance, the executive, the trustees of the hospital, and grateful patients. They represent over fifty five percent of individuals that give healthcare so they’re essential for us and their big givers help me understand why they’re not unapproachable because of privacy laws. Well, they are very approachable, and privacy rules allow the health care provider access to demographic information, so names, addresses of patients are part of what we do internal for our fund-raising is perfectly acceptable. So it’s acceptable for the clinician to share with you development office is that right? Think the physician at the hospital, the nurse, the janitor can refer a name to the foundation for somebody who might be interested to get okay is perfectly acceptable in permissible under the law. And nancy, why don’t we start with some of the tips that you have for growing this very important grateful patient program? Fifty five percent of individual fund-raising to health care’s from these people. How do we get started? Absolutely well, one of the main objectives have to be able to find the people that are. In the hospital immediately so that the foundation can really approach, not approach them for it. I’m coming to say hello, i’m introducing you to the foundation and letting you know that our goal of the foundation is to increase the awareness of what we do to help raise more money. And so what we see is the opportunity to find the best people to make the right gift at the right time, and what we’re doing is identifying with people that are most capable as well as the people that are already connected. How do we start that conversation? Once we’ve identified people, how do we initiate conversation while they’re in the hospital? It’s a quick hello, i want to connect with you now, if you’re already a donor, i’ve been wanting to meet you. You’ve probably been wanting to meet me. We’ve maybe meditate events, we’ve we’re friends, so you would expect me to come by and say hello to you. So these people were starting with the premise that these are people who are already known through the hospital, oftentimes they are ok. Other times you’re a new prospect. A new patient, that’s just came to the hospital and what’s important is to let them understand and know that we have a foundation that will be working with them for the future. Okay, bill, what do you hear from fund-raising professionals in hospitals about making that initial contact? What kinds of responses are our patients willing to talk? Oh, very much so. And when our members are making these visits there rounding and they’re there in the room with a patient, one of the things that are offering to do is they’re they’re our contact for you, anyone that comes into a hospital to have a procedure that is very unique for the individual. It may be a bit routine for some of the providers are member, you know, really steps across that gap, providing for as a resource answering questions, someone they could turn to for communication to make sure that they’re comfortable, what with what they’re receiving and the kinds of things that they’re going to undergo an experience while they’re in the hospital, because it is a foreign land to anybody. Who’s, a patient who’s coming in for russian scary that can be absolutely it’s unknown and while again, it’s very routine for the providers in the sense that they lived there, they worked there. It is a unique experience for any patient is coming. Nancy, i took you on a slight aggression howto make contact once we’ve identified, but what’s your advice around doing the identification. Current patients absolutely. We have a process that is totally automated, so no human hands touching the data way. Use the black boy as blackwater target analytics. Many of our clients use razors edge as their donor management system. So many of their donors are already no one, and we compare they’re the names of the new admits two there database as well as to wealth program, and we’re putting a radio, letting them know the best prospects for major gifts, the best prospects for annual e-giving and that allows them then to make a decision if they should go visit okay, and or put them into an annual solicitation lorts joining and something even better. Yet, if we’re visiting someone that we know that is a major gift donor. And maintaining their interest in the programs and their opportunity to support activities that are beneficial for others in their this is an opportunity for the foundation to reach out to people with them in the hospital. So i look at it is they’re coming to visit you there, there if you don’t reach out and say hello to them after you’ve had a relationship for years, not really good. I want to say at least a hello it’s not going to be a long visit, but i’m reaching out to you. What if it is someone who’s who’s due to the hospital? Not part of the family, not someone you’ve known for years still appropriate, too. Greet them while they’re in the hospital? Absolutely, i believe that most people when they’re in the hospital, they’re experiencing something unique buy-in it may be the first time they’ve known about the hospital, they become part of the health care family there and by reaching out to them they expect it’s, a buffalo here here’s i discount for gift shop or maybe i’m goingto leave the newspaper behind for you. I come in with a friendly face, i’m not bringing in needles. And i’m not taking blood from you and it’s. A quick high. Okay, okay. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot, or or a h a n j dot net. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll durney i found that interesting. What nancy said in the session earlier today was that these people are coming to your home. They’re coming to the hospital are home, they’re coming into our facility. Ten there are any experience you have in the hospital there are there five, ten, fifteen people that air in and out that air touching your life during that process and tohave one focal point that could be helpful that, you know, you could turn to if you’ve got questions or a spot that you can go to a person, you could go to facilitate communication and make sure it’s clear among all these services that are being provided is very much appreciated by patients. That’s what we find so you’re encouraging the fundraiser to ask, act as a resource? Yes, from times they do on dh it’s quite appreciated, as you know. All right. So then, after we’ve identified we’ve initiated contact bill what’s what’s another strategy for growing this program. Well, that’s part of what we were talking about today, there are different levels of grateful freight patient programs at the very basic level, you find that contact that call being made that introduction and it may be sixty or ninety days later where we’re looking at that individual and deciding is this someone we wantto make an appeal to our reach out to bout some program or service that we’re offering where their donation can help someone else? Is it someone who’s contributed in the past or who has the capacity to do more? Do we want to put them way want to put an effort in front of them or an opportunity in front of them as a major donor, where they can make a significant difference because of their contribution to the community and, you know, that’s very basic there others where you’re doing the analysis in the analytics, if you will, you’re assessing wealth management capacity so that when you talk with someone, you develop a relationship, you clarify their interests and also the level of what you believe they can support a particular activity in helping others. Now, nancy, you’ll have to forgive me because i’m going to ask bill about what some advice for hospital may not have reasonscall so there are some way to walk away. I don’t want to have a conversation, but i’m just thinking of our audience is small and midsize charities, and there might be smaller hospital. It doesn’t have reasons aid xero identifying you wanna do it right? Well, i will tell you. Okay, identifying grateful patients. We often look we’ve compared to their database no matter what it is, and so doesn’t have they don’t have to be a razors that juicer. The ideas were helping them identify grateful patients and look into the patients that air there so that they’re contributing to their experience. So it’s a step just that they would have to be a mechanism for sharing the information from from no, i don’t know if it’s missions exclusions. It comes from admissions. Typically it kind of sermon ambitions. And then it’s submitted and and no one really has to touch it. It’s, elektronik lee done. We screen it, and then the results are back within ninety minutes so that the foundation can decide. Okay, who’s the best person to go visit this oversignt bilich and our members are clearly using razors, edges of tools. And one of the best advantages of this as a tool is simply that expands our members capability beyond it. Maybe multiple be able. To multiply the impact, one person can have two, twice a ce much three times as much because it is some of it’s automated but it’s more instantaneous than than operating off of written records comparisons that you’re making relative to wealth management to an individuals in the hospital or who has been discharged is instantaneous, as opposed to trying to make all those connections in your head. So this truly, really expands our members capacity, forgetting to more donors this right on that’s, that’s, invaluable. Okay, well, do you have specific advice for smaller hospitals, health care facilities that whether they’re using razor’s edge or not isn’t an advantage to be a smaller, maybe community hospital? Well, you know, it’s it’s so much like any everything you’ve heard around the world all fund-raising is local, and it is individual in many respects and again razors age is a tool enables that capacity if you don’t have razors, eggs, there are some other alternatives and things you could do all the way back to when i started, when it was, you know, index cards in a shoebox, but it’s, that kind of approach, so there are things in between certainly. Razor’s edge is sophisticated, and really, the value is really an expanding capability. But there are other ways you could do that. Part of it is more manpower, which is hard to get in smaller organizations. Part of it is a process and dedication to that process every day, no matter what the elements are that you put in place so you can make it work. That may not be quite as effective without some of these tools, but it’s still gonna work. Okay, so the smaller community, when i’m familiar with a smaller community hospital, shouldn’t avoid grateful patient program. No, not it all so quickly. If your foundation executive this fund-raising is part of your obligation, your purpose and it’s within the health care community. These are institutionally related foundations to the hospital, right? They’re not out raising money for the you know something else in the community focusedbuyer hospital? Absolutely. Okay, honey. Another area that we all thought blackbaud way want to be able to help all sizes of none. So we eat. Tapestry is a wonderful solution. That is many times used for the smaller community hospital. See tapestries at a cloud based. Is it ok? And so i don’t think we know history tells us we’ve worked together for many, many years that many of the hospitals use razors edge that it like you say some of the smaller, newer hospitals, maybe they don’t need the sophistication, and they have way have a wonderful opportunity for them to use a tapestry let’s talk about some other advice around building back to building this grateful patient program. Nancy what what, what, what what further advice did you give him? Your seven? Well, each hospital is unique. And when they started looking at what makes the program different, it’s getting buy-in from the whole health care community from the top all the way to the to the janitor that’s in the room with someone the foundation needs to be more than the organization of the part of the organization that says, hey, do you want to be, how much are you going to give to the employee program this year? We want to make sure that the foundation is connecting with the nurse is the people that are front line with patients and making sure that we’re hearing you need to stop in and have a visit. Kayman we need to make sure that we’re introducing grateful patient programs that can enhance all the different areas of the hospital so that everyone’s understanding those programs and bringing the community together because really it’s all about the services that were providing to these cubine what’s your advice about getting getting clinicians involved in fund-raising first, they’re busy, my my what i hear and my experience in doing some plant e-giving consulting for hospitals is docks are typically well, i don’t know a good number of doc’s doctors are not willing to partner really with fund-raising with development office for the foundation, what’s your advice for sort of breaking down those walls, i think when you really start involving the whole team and you have a new approach and it may be a totally new approach, you have to think outside of what you have done in the past, health care is we’re having to raise more dollars every year, and when you’re asked to raise more dollars with less, you’ve got to use the right tech what’s what’s into approach help us help the audience understand what what’s one new approach they go to their their doctors by implementing this information so that i can focus within ninety minutes and be able to be next to someone and introducing all the good work we do that makes it takes the guesswork out of it. It allows me to be more focus, and then it also allows doctors to have opportunity to refer people to us and a system in place so that they know as a team we’re working together. Will you have you have advice for breaking down those walls, getting into those characters who are often unwilling it’s, not just the doctors you’re talking about building a culture of philanthropy and awareness throughout throughout the community, right? You do that, you do that. You do that with the orientation, with new and ongoing employees that you have. You do that in the training opportunities with the nurses and with practitioners and such that you’re talking about philanthropy or letting know about the foundation with the physicians, they’re human beings, too. You need to embrace them the way you do others, and there are programs and activities that could be very supportive of areas that they are interested in, either in their specialty orin pieces of equipment. Or things that are going to make their delivery of care much hyre to their patients, so sometimes it has to be very specific for helping them to see what the foundation could do for them if they’re willing. Tto partner and i mentioned that family of donors, the physicians are large portion of that, right it’s not every physician, but it’s, the ones that turn on to see the fact that getting involved this way, and even being philanthropic myself, which, if i do it through plan giving or some other vehicles, can benefit me and directly, you know, that has a meaningful impact on my patients and that’s where doctors focus it’s all about them and their patients seems to me so if we could bring it down to the patient care level, the benefits of working with the foundation, making those clear and one one other element that struck me is that in that culture of philanthropy, what you want to get it too is a point in the overall institution that this isn’t something that’s nice to have. This is something that’s essential that needs to be elevated to the strategic level, the planning of the whole so that the executives on the hospital side are learning to plan for and depend upon and demand that philanthropy be a major part, their business, and what they’re trying to do with it has to come from leadership, right, creating a culture and and we see in our benchmarking service that we do with the standards where you have the ceo of the hospital involved in active way in, you know, signing letters in being president, making some of the calls with you as appropriate, you’re getting a much better result in a much better return on the dollars that are being raised, because donors want to know that there have any impact, and the important people in this business are aware of what they’re doing. And bill, i think we’ve seen that change over the years. The two of us sitting in these seats have watched healthcare philanthropy changed enormously. Wey have to leave it there. Thank you. Nancy johnson, senior consultant with target analytics and bill mcginley, president, ceo association for healthcare philanthropy, thanks very much for being guest. Thank you. You don’t know what you want. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of become twenty twelve. We’ll be back with additional guests. I, you’re here further seconds, stay with us, my thanks to nancy johnson and bill mcginley and all the people at bebe con. It was a pleasure to be there, and i have more interviews from b become twenty twelve coming for you. Right now. We take a break when we return. It’s, tony, take two, and then gene and emily disaster relief. Stay with me. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam lebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology, no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect, no more it’s, time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower. We’ll discuss what you’re born, teo you society, politics, business and family. It’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on. What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me very sharp, your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower, radio, dot com every time i was a great place to visit both entertainment and education listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven, it will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com lively conversation, top trends and sound advice. That’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m janna agger’s, senior vice president, products and marketing from blackbaud. Time now for tony’s steak, too. I have a lot of ways that you can help hurricane sandy victims throughout the country because, of course it was not only the northeast, not only new york, that was that was hurt, but the hurricane then you know, from new york city went into western new york and upstate, into the finger lakes region and then into ohio. So nationally there’s the american red cross. Um, you can donate at red cross dot or gq, or you can text red cross two, nine zero, nine nine, nine, and you’ll be giving ten dollars, to their disaster relief fund, including sandy. Red cross is also looking for volunteers, so if you’re able to volunteer red cross dot or ge is the place feeding, feeding america, they have a lot of food and emergency supplies. Water uh, that they’re e-giving throughout the disaster zone and to donate to them, go to feeding america. Dot org’s save the children is also working to provide relief to families and their children metoo they are at save the children dot or ge craig newmark, who has been a guest on the show twice uh he’s, the founder of craigslist and craigconnects and he’s uh, he’s matching donations up to twenty five thousand dollars for sandy victims and he’s doing that through crowd rise. So to give to that fund-raising dot com flash sandy relief. And when you go there, a picture of craig pops up. If you want to be more local in in new york, there are a lot of blood drives. I read hundreds of blood drives that were canceled because of the hurricane throughout new york state. So now we need blood. And if you want to donate blood in the new york city area it’s, new york sorry. And why blood center dot or ge? If you happen to be a techie in new york, you have tech skills. Um, new york tech meet up and new work city are organizing volunteers that have technology skills to help with relief efforts to help new york area businesses and non-profits get their technology back up and running. For that, you can go to bitterly dot slash hurricane tech volunteers. So that’s, uh, which place is that you can give time or money too, in support of people that are really in need throughout the northeast and a pinto, i said, north northern new york state and ohio, and on my block this week is a post called researcher bias in smelters planned e-giving study. Delta company did a a survey of potential planned e-giving donors. These people, they believe, are potential plan giving donors, but i detail in my in my block that still, the company also makes its money in large part bye selling print materials, direct mail materials, no website and consulting services for for outreach. So to me, it’s in there, broad corporate interests to have a bigger base of, of playing, giving prospects than we traditionally have had, and that, to me, creates conflict. They want to sell their services, and they’re encouraging charities to look beyond the what’s. Been the traditional prospect pools in terms of age and boiled e-giving history, and that i detail at on the block again. The post is called researcher bias in altars. Planned e-giving survey and my blog’s is that tony martignetti dot com that is tony, take two for friday, november two forty six show of the year with me now jean and emily. Jean emily, are you there? Hi, tony. This is jean and least beside me, but it’s going to be me alone today. And we hope that you and your family and all your loved ones are doing well. Our thoughts and prayers for everybody affected by the hurricane. Thank thank you very much, jane. I know you’re familiar with natural disasters being in the san francisco area. Yeah, we certainly did. Emily is there she’s just holding your hand or what? You’re not going to die. She pretty much is holding my hand and promising, tell me what to say. Okay, of course. Jean takagi and emily chan, they’re firm is the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo-sage which you’ll find at attorney for non-profits dot com and jean jean’s blawg is gene. I don’t have it in front of me because i’m remote right now. Remind people what you’re what you’re bloggers, please. Sure. It’s just the non-profit lob log non-profit law blawg dot com and emily is the contributor to that as well. Um, so we’re talking about disaster relief, obviously timely. If a charity wants to do something, they’re so moved, maybe they’re in of a neighborhood that was that’s affected or whether they are or not. Can they just start, eh? Sandy disaster relief fund that’s a great question, tony, and, you know, charities are often the centres of their communities, especially in small communities and it’s really great to see communities pull together and non-profits wanting to help, but sometimes the non-profits mission is not aligned, oh are consistent with providing disaster relief. They might be in existence for doing some others types of services, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t help, but it does mean that they may have to take some steps before they help, and one of the things that they need to do is they need to change their mission. So they’ve got to make sure that on their website, on their marketing materials, and particularly if they’ve got a mission statement in their articles of incorporation or their by-laws to change that, to expand it, to be being able to provide those disaster relief services that they want to provide for pete’s sake. So if i want to do something, i can’t just do it the next morning, i have to look at my articles of incorporation first, yeah, you’ve got to get that board together and take a in an emergency action txtgive that that mission statement to the extent that it is constrained by your articles, so you’ve gotta operate consistent with your governing documents. So you’ve got to change those if there is that statement in there, that’s one of the reasons why we like to make sure that the articles purpose statement, they called a certificate of inc in new york, it’s not so specific that you can’t uh, uh, let your organization of all take on things like this in the future and then a tip for revisiting your mission statement for all non-profits so is there a phrase that is safe that is brought enough that you recommend it doesn’t have to say hurricane relief, right? Absolutely. So you can say we’re providing charitable services in whatever area you want to focus on on dh leave, it is broadly is that in your articles, and then you could define it more specifically on your website and on marketing materials like grant applications, but when you decide to engage in a new activity like disaster relief, and that really goes outside of what you’re doing. Perhaps you were providing music education, you know, when you really go outside of that pounds, you’ve got to make sure that you don’t use prior donors funds, which were dedicated towards music education in our example. But you’re using nufer funds once you’ve changed your mission statement to engage in that disaster relief activity. Okay, onda of course, once you start collecting funds for a certain purpose, then you have to use them for that purpose. That’s correct. You can’t then if if the if the disaster is is overcome, you can’t switch your funds back to music, right? So the money that you resent you raised for disaster relief, you’ve gotta make sure that they’re focused on that. And we had some issues with that after nine eleven. And so are some other duvette actors where organizations felt that they had expended enough money in that area and wanted divert the rest of the money into other areas beyond that could be a real danger. All right. Is emily passing you notes right now? She always passes me notice. Okay. Okay. Stop it, emily. Genes genes good on his own. He knows what he’s doing. Okay, so once you then expand the mission statement, if you need to, you also have to inform the irs. Is that right? Yeah, although you don’t have to do that right away. So you can engage in the disaster relief activities, which usually you’ve got to do pretty quickly. But you can report the change in your activities and the change in your mission to the irs when you finally form nine, ninety for the year in which you changed those activities. So for example, you wouldn’t have to file if you were going, you know, finally for two thousand twelve until may two thousand thirteen. Okay, okay. That doesn’t have to be immediate. I just realized i neglected to send live listener love during tony. Take two. And we have a lot of listeners abroad. Tokyo, taipei in taiwan and yung yung in korea and send gen china welcome live listening love to all those foreign countries and also to philadelphia, which is not quite as far into me. I live in new york, but philadelphia’s not quite as far in as those other. Cities, um, pardon me for that, but jean but i have to send my listeners love. Sorry, uh, that’s great. All right, so once so, then once you have expanded your mission statement, if necessary, then is there any limit to what kinds of relief you can provide? Well, there are so you’re still restricted by what we described on our last couple shows private benefit issues. Oh, man, private benefit again? Yeah. You know, charities exists to provide a public benefit, and they can’t be operated to promote private interests. So you’ve got to be careful. So we can’t give a million bucks away. Teo, somebody who was barely hurt by the hurricane that would that would not be appropriate. You’ve also got to be worried about conflicts of interest so forgiving to board members or toe officers of the organization and not in an objective matter, not as part of a charitable class of individuals affected or with preferential treatment to those insiders. That would be wrong, but we certainly can provide funds, services or good ensure that victims have basic necessities like food and clothing and housing and medical assistance and things like that. What can you define a class of people that you want to help. Yeah, i mean that’s, something you should do. So you should say, you know, this is good for business and not only legal reasons, but are we just going to help anybody affected by the hurricane? Are we goingto, you know, really look at financial need? Are we going toe not look a financial need, and we don’t have to. We learned after nine eleven that we can even help communities that don’t have financial disadvantages, but that were hurt badly by the hurricane and or any disaster and weaken give emergency relief so emergency relief services can be given without a needs assessment. Otherwise we want to determine what type of needs we’re looking for. Is it financial need? Is it medical? Need it, you know, for disabled individuals within a given area? Are we goingto limited geographically all sorts of things that we need to target our mission towards? And then when we get this whole pool of charitable class members that want our attention, we have to figure out what type of resources we have and how we decide who to give it to the needs assessment. Is something that’s required or it’s just very smart to do well, it’s it’s really required if you’re going to be required to go the scorning assistance yeah, it’s not so required if you’re just providing emergency assistance. So for giving out blankets and food and shelter in the next couple weeks for the hurricane victims. There’s no needs assessment required for that, you know, it’s pretty obvious who’s in need. Okay, but if we’re gonna be e-giving ongoing, you know, rental assistance payments and that’s going to last for several, several months past the hurricane, then we’re going to think about why are we just giving it to a select few individuals? And how did we choose them? We’ve got has some objective in good faith criteria there. What about helping businesses? We’ve been talking about people. Yeah, that’s actually possible, and some people, you know, don’t realize that that’s possible, but sometimes business owners are financially needy, and that would be okay to provide businesses in that case and otherwise they might be distressed or or to come back community deterioration or lessen the burden of government. And we’ve seen, you know, from the west coast we’ve seen the photos of some of the the impact of the hurricane on the seaboard, especially, and those air communities where, you know they’re not going to recover unless their businesses recover their small businesses. And the small business owners need assistance to get back in there. Otherwise, the community is not going to get back. And so that’s a case where non-profits can actually provide assistance, the businesses as well. Okay, but go and going back to people. We can’t define a class of people that, uh, illegal in or, you know, impermissible in other circumstances just because we happen to know that they were particularly burdened by whatever the, whatever, whatever the disaster is. Oppcoll well, i mean, you could certainly define your class how you want it. But it’s got to be again, pretty objective. So that you’re not, you know, favoring people who either don’t really have a need or favoring insiders of the charity over others. Okay. We can’t target this too specific individuals, but we can certainly say community’s, though, right? Yeah, and it could be a small neighbourhood community that you’re targeting that was especially impacted or where the charity is an existence and it’s kind of the hub of that community, or or we could have more expansive criteria. Okay? Bonem now, so the people need to fit into the the people you’re helping need to fit into that terrible class. As he said, um, a little more about conflict, potential, conflicts of interest? Sure, well, you know, if you’ve got a board of directors of a charity of charities should have and they’re determining who’s going to get aid from the charity, we certainly don’t want them to benefit themselves, though there others, even if they’ve been affected by the disaster, they might be able, teo, be eligible to be considered among the charitable class of individuals and so they might get some benefit, but it would be incidental, and they should certainly not be making decisions on benefiting themselves. They would have to abstain if they’re part of that charitable class on who to pick that will receive help. I mean it. Would be nice if charity’s could give help everybody, but obviously resource is air limited, so they’ve got a decide who’s most impacted or who they want to help the most in line with their mission. And board members and officers of the organization have to really be careful because they’re in power positions of making those types of decisions that that’s the conflict of interest issue. And sometimes when you have outsiders who are part of the selection committee, you know that can create more trust if you get community leaders who are not on the board but involved in selecting who might be able to receive relief that might give some, you know, assurance to the community that they’re not going to only benefit themselves the board of the charity, that is, but it also creates additional conflicts of interest so that we make sure that those people aren’t benefiting themselves, thie outside selection committee members or their families or their business partners or route, you know, and, you know, business relations. So we just have to be careful about those things i see and that’s consistent what we’ve talked about in the past. That’s absolutely right, we have just a minute before break gene it. Would it be permissible for a charity to say that the charitable class they want to help volunteers to that charity? People who have been volunteering with them in the past? Yes, longest that’s a signature una, significantly large enough and indefinite class of individuals it’s going to be okay. So if we’ve got, you know, one hundred volunteers and we’re open to taking more volunteers and we’re going to help our volunteers that’s going to be okay, especially if they if they, you know again, not preferentially board members and officers of the organizations who are volunteers. Okay, but if it’s too small a classic like five people who are volunteers, we can’t sir, you know that just those five people is a charitable class that would be impermissible private benefit. All right, we’re going to take a break team takagi stays with us. We’ll keep talking about disaster relief, and i hope you do, too. Talking. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. 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Got more live listener love to salt lake city and moscow and dallas, texas also south bend, indiana thanks for joining us live listener love to all those cities, jean what if you collect more money than there is need? Now you’ve you’ve said, you’re specifically collecting it for this purpose. It’s not needed anymore. What do you do? Yeah, that’s really tricky tony so one of the things that’s kinda boyd that situation. So you want to be careful when you read to find your mission? The only way that happens is usually when you defined your charitable class so small that you know you, you raised enough money to help them out through the air. Emergencies on dh you’ve decided you’ve got extra money left at that point, you’ve gotta operate as close as you can t to the charitable purpose for which those monies were collected, donors typically don’t have a right to get that money back, so, you know, you could go to court, and we figure out what to do with that extra money and people could bring you into court, too, to decide what to do with that. That happened with nine eleven i don’t want that to happen, so be very careful of that. You can usually find your way around it as long as you haven’t made your mission and your charitable class so so tiny and specific that that that it becomes a knish you later? Okay, but what do you do with the money? Well, you’re going to use it for close to that mission is possible, and if it’s if it’s really outside of that, then you’re gonna have to go to court and get them tio follow through an approved where that money is going to go and it’s called a sight prey issue. But i didn’t want to get into jargon jail, but i suppose they just have so i pray i like i like how that spell right? See why pr ess, isn’t it? That’s your sigh, pray okay, go ahead, go ahead, tell us, what’s, i pray is show off. Well, i pray it is, of course, latin and lawyers like to use it to impress other people on dh when i literally mean like you’re doing right now, james, i think it is near it’s possible or as near as i may be possible. And i think it’s latin. It may also actually be french coming from the old french language. So it’s often used where people have designated their gifts their charitable gift to certain purposes, and that purpose is no longer required or becomes impossible to fulfill. So that might be, for example, the eradication of polio which the march of dimes had encountered early on. And they needed to change their mission. Later they decided to otherwise polio had, you know, essentially been eradicated with jonas salk back scene on dh. They changed to birth defects. So i pray, is a very common doctrine used when charitable purposes have been completed or impossible to complete further. That sounds like a lot of trouble. Could we give the money that’s excess to another charity that does the type of work that we had raised the money for? Yes, certainly. If they can, if they can, if they khun do those type of activities and we no longer can then that that certainly is permissible. So long, focal donor’s intent and what the charity had said the money would be used for is still used for those purposes, you know. Okay, so there’s a dozen easier way out than going to court. All right, right. So long it again. You didn’t pick such a fine mission that nobody nobody else could do it either. Yeah. All right. We have just about two minutes before we have to go. Uh, let’s say a little more about documentation. We talked about the articles of incorporation amending those and we talked about the nine, ninety in that year. What else is required? Well, you know, what you should be requiring is the type of assistance that you provided, whether it be financial assistance or in-kind good blankets, food, housing, whatever the costs associated to the charity with providing that assistance, the purpose of why you’re giving that assistance and why you’re giving it to those individuals that are receiving the assistance over others. If the board was not making those determinations about who gets and who doesn’t get on dh, there was some selection committee. How did you choose that selection committee? On what criteria did they use for dispersing the aid you want? Also document the names and the addresses of the river citians of the financial aid that you’ve given or significant non financial. Aid given again, this wouldn’t be necessary for emergency relief, or you’re just giving food and shelter and blankets and things. But if it’s ongoing gauge, you wanted to make sure you know who those recipients are and you want to disclose that either there was no relationship between the recipients of aids and an insider, a director officer or substantial contributor to the organization our thirty document that i have one last thing, tony, make sure donors don’t hey don’t earmark their donations towards specific individuals that’s not allowed, so i can’t give a gift and say give it to my uncle, who got affected by the hurricane that we’re not allowed fifteen seconds. Where do we document all this is just inboard mitts you khun documented in board minutes or any sort of organizational document that you you hold and that the organization can attest it is the policy or the practice of the organization. Jean takagi, his firm is non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco and you’ll find him at non-profit law blawg. Thank you very much, jane. Thanks, tony. My thanks. Also to regina walton, live listener love going tow her in san francisco and she also very helpful in compiling the list of agencies that i had for tony’s take to regina, thank you very much. I have a new fund-raising fundamentals podcast out with the chronicle of philanthropy, it is how to recruit and motivate volunteers for your events. You’ll find it on the chronicle website, and you’ll also find fund-raising fundamentals on itunes next week. Career advice for your entry level and junior employees jonathan lewis produces career advice videos with leaders in non-profit social change uh, he his video interviews are free and they’re short, and i think they’re valuable as you lied and mentor twentysomethings who want to make a difference in the world, he and i are going to listen to, and he’ll comment on a couple of clips. One is called mentoring for dummies, and another one is called shut the hell up and also next week, maria semple returns our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder has resource is for researching privately held companies. You know, she always has a ton of free and low cost sites and ideas, and next week will be no exception. You can find us on linkedin reveling in group you can offer ideas for the shows and continue the conversation with guests on linkedin. We’re on facebook, you know that i haven’t said it recently, but that’s because you already know it. You can listen to non-profit radio, live or archives. The archive is on itunes at non-profit radio dot net on twitter you can follow me, use the show’s hashtag non-profit radio and you can also follow me on foursquare we can connect there wishing you good luck the way performers do around the world. We have left estonia, estonia is behind us so from estonia go west across the baltic sea and you land in sweden where they lightly kick performers in the bud before they go onstage. No hands allowed on ly a kick, please and when they’re doing it, they will say, breathe at the bend freak at ben, which means break a bone so i guess sweet don’t have femurs and to be his invidious, so just break any bone in your body is fine. You don’t have to be specific to the leg, so i’m wishing you breed at ben. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. I’m leaving, which is our line. Producer assistant producer janice taylor is sending me text telling me when the time is coming up. Thank you very much, general shows social media’s, by regina walton, of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, i hope you’ll be with me next week. Friday one to two p, m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. I didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get anything. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on so speaks been radio. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam lebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. 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