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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i do hope that you were with me last week. I had some for lymphedema if it came within my ken that you had missed the non-profit outcomes toolbox part do. Dr robert penna discussed the wave of reliance on outcomes measurement and gave concrete steps and tools so that small and midsize shops khun stay ahead of the trend toward outcomes assessment. And that was part two of our interview from an earlier show and optimize your social profiles. Amy sample ward, our social media contributor, had tips to find tune your profiles on the social networks while staying true to mission and brand. Also using your profiles to promote campaigns, and she shared her sixty seconds style stop this week thriving in today’s economy. Join hunter show you is co author of non-profit investment and development solutions. We’ll talk about today’s economy and how to succeed in it with your investment policies and fund-raising and how those two are connected roughly midway through on tony’s take two i love planned e-giving and last week i was remember reminded how much i love it. Plus i wasn’t be become the blackbaud conference just yesterday, we’ll talk about that. I’m very pleased that the book non-profit investment and development solutions brings joy hunter show you to the studio she’s right here with us. She has over eighteen years of experience in non-profits and investment management, including several years at the american heart association as a vice president of planned e-giving uh, love that she’s, now a consultant on our practice, focuses on governance fund-raising staff, training and board education, very active volunteer she’s, a founding boardmember for the association of fund-raising professionals chapter in westchester, new york, she’s on the board of girls inc westchester and the children’s support foundation she’s on the professional advisory committees for the central park conservancy, lighthouse international and the new jersey symphony orchestra. Joy hunter show you welcome to studio thanks, tony it’s great to be here oh that’s great! I’m glad it’s great it’s, wonderful to have you the sub title for your book is a guide to thriving in today’s economy how would you describe today’s economy for non-profit? Well, let’s see, i think that things have really changed. A lot since two thousand eight, you know, back in two thousand seven dollars were coming from all sides, the markets were flourishing, organizations were counting on the dollars that were promised to them. And, you know, since then we’ve seen an evolution of retraction, government retraction where government dollars were being continuously promised, even through some of the trying times of two thousand eight, two thousand nine and then we saw government dollars being promised, but not coming, you know? So it was taking three, six, nine, twelve months for dollars to come, and then there were decisions made on the government side where dollars just disappeared. So, you know, organizations counting on two million dollar grant from the government were not receiving it and had to figure out how to fill gaps. So that was, you know, one side of things on the private side with the individuals, you know, individuals had felt wealthy, so they were giving mohr without thinking through strategy on dh what we’ve seen again on the private side with individuals is that retraction, the sense of not just, hey, i’m going to give to all of these organizations because they’re asking, but now there’s more strategy around, they’re asking they’re giving there’s more budget planning around, they’re giving on dh, so basically we’ve seen the same. The same thing with foundations is that their strategy and there’s focus on budget, and they’re looking for more from the non-profits now than ever is terms of why should i be giving you these dollars and so non-profits are having to go through and focus on what are the strategies that i need to use in order to attract the dollars that are out there and connect with the donors who could be the best partners for us and helping us reach our mission. So there was this contraction from government and other institutional sources and also from individuals and at the same time, greater demand for services across big parts of the sector. Oh, yes, absolutely, i mean, we’ve seen it in multiple reports over and over, we see that the demand for services on the rise and that it’s very difficult for organizations toe actually fulfill that demand with the issues of the retraction of funding coming in. What do you think it’ll take for ah, for there to be a change in the individual mind set can can we go back to two thousand seven on the individual side or you really think those days are you are not going to be seen again? I think those days are probably over. I think that individuals now have a sense of responsibility around they’re giving and on the fact that they’re thinking strategically about they’re giving is actually my opinion. It’s an outcome that’s very positive from all of this, i think that it gives non-profits an opportunity to create a greater bond and loyalty with the organization with their individuals excuse me, and by communicating what they’re doing to make a difference, like why it matters that they are in existence and that their programming is happening and this forces them to step up their game, and particularly in terms that i think a lot of what we’re seeing in terms of impact reporting. Exactly. Yes, i think that that’s exactly the outcome is the impact reporting, and i know that that’s a challenge for non-profit let’s. See, now i work with non-profits every day and i know the impact reporting. You know, it comes with an expense. It comes with the use. Of resource is, you know, capital and human resource is, and so organizations have to try and figure out, well, how am i going to do this impact, reporting that donors are demanding, but really, there are very simple waste organizations to do that, and the sense and the book really is that the boards need toe own part of that answer, like, how do we report it? What you will be focused on? The boards need to have a sense of responsibility around helping the leadership of the organization form what they’re going to create. A ce faras case for support and impact statements were going plenty time to talk about board hans abilities and other other people’s roles and responsibilities. It just occurred to me that the person who was my guest the past two weeks in the first half of the show and it would admonish me ah, before i wouldn’t admonish you, but he would admonish me for calling it outcomes reporting, i mean, for calling an impact reporting he calls it outcomes reporting impact is what you do, but outcomes is what that change creates in the world, so i will apologize. Bob bob penna doctor penna, dr penny. I’m sorry. Outcomes. Reporting. But congratulations on your book. Thank you. I might have said that. Maybe should said that earlier. When? When was it? Ah, released. I was i was at a party several months ago. Yeah, and it was released near the beginning of the year. Actually so easily. I was a late comer. You had many parties that before the one i was invited to lincoln mayor june the way didn’t do a lot of parties. I should’ve capitalized on the opportunity. Tohave parties. I think i was taking a deep breath after the book was published. It was a lot of fun. It was also a lot of time and work, so i kind of like happen. And now it’s exciting to talk about it. So you know, it was fun to have a party. And now it’s exciting to talk about your show. And so there was just a party. I was invited to the only party there was that’s. Right? Tony, i wouldn’t leave you out of any parties. Do you think this interesting occured to me? Do you think it’s it’s harder to co author a book or toe author? Solely that’s. A very interesting question. I have to say that roger was very easy to work with co author roger matt lost? Yes, and so it was fun to have his opinions and input, and i think that that was a great experience and i haven’t written a book on my own, so i don’t know what that looks like, but i do like the team partnership of writing something together or doing something together in a lot of parts of my life, so i think that i probably upto have a partner if i was going to write another book. Ok, well, that may speak to your personality to you like to be collegial and part of a team and certainly in all the volunteer work you’re doing when you’re working on committees. Interesting. Okay, um, the book is very comprehensive, and we just have the hour, but s so we focus on just a couple places there’s, different roles we were alluding to a couple minutes ago within the non-profit the they’re volunteers rolls on the board and ah, there’s requirements and responsibilities for, um, for staff as well. So why don’t we want to start with just a couple minutes before break? Um the role of the advisor, the investment consultant, and we’ll have plenty time to go into it after the break, but i just introduced us to that idea. Yeah, but generally the chapter was created because as a result of all the changes in the economy and there were a lot of investment dollars that were mismanaged, it organizations, you know, endowments were affected in a very a very big way, and there were investment advisors out there who knew how to manage money, but they didn’t understand non-profits they didn’t understand the mission backing our relation to the dollars that’s very important, teo, to connect so it’s the dollars that you’re creating revenue, but you’re creating revenue too fulfill a mission and so there’s, this sense of understanding that’s necessary, especially as economies are changing and it’s more difficult teo, to manage towards those mission related goals. Where organ where not non-profits need to be selecting advisors who have a sense of expertise around the investment management, but also an expertise and understanding of the sector what’s happening in the sector, the motivations in the sector of the use of the dollars, the importance of a spending policy investment policy statements in terms of plan giving, you know, gift annuity programs like, what are they really all about? What’s the money for so there’s a lot of nuances around the dollars that are invested for non-profits and there needs to be a certain level of expertise by the advisers that air working without its organizations that that will help them reach their goals if the expertise is not there. A lot of times, the non-profit is at a disadvantage because they’re not getting the full perspective of what they could get through the, you know, through the investment management, with all of those goals in mind. Okay, andi, we’ll talk a little about how teo, make sure you have the right investment. Seldman helped give tips for hiring the right one on and then the other rolls around the investment committee on the board and the fund-raising staff and the financial staff as well. So that’s all after we go away for a couple minutes, hang in there talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth? Seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our culture and consultant services a guaranteed to lead toe. Right, groat. For your business, call us at nine. One seven eight three, three, four, eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. 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Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com george hunter show you is co author of non-profit investment and development solutions, and we’re talking through the book. What is thie advice you might have for a non-profit that is looking to hire an investment advisor? Um, you need to really think through what you’re looking for in terms of thie, the expertise of that individual, so the knowledge of what their their knowledge of what they’re doing in terms of their team or their practice of investment management, you know, are they are do they service fiduciaries with you? You know, what platforms are they going to invest the money on that’s all really important, but the part that, you know, i emphasized in the book that i really want organizations to be mindful of our questions, that you would ask a boardmember you know what? What connection do you have to our mission will kind of volunteering? Do you do? How involved are you in the nonprofit sector? You know, are you aware of the challenges that we have today around asset resource allocation, like finding the assets that we need to function in addition to managing the assets to goals around our spending policy and or goals around if it’s a gift annuity program, for example, around the needs for the actuarial tables, the rates that we’re paying out, you know, ask them questions specific to the investments that you have and the goal of those investments and there’s a list in in the book, there’s actually checklist in the book for you to take a look and ask those questions and, you know, we make it a guide for a reason just because we wanted to be useful and so there is a full list in there, but honestly, i think that when looking at that chapter and looking at what you’re the attributes of a financial adviser thatyou wantto that you’d want to consider, you know, some organizations are too small to have endowments, and they might say, well, we don’t have investment advisors, but, you know, every advisor that you’re working within your organization should have some connection to the sector, not just being experts at what they do, but also understand the needs and the issues around around the sector. So one example that i have, if you will, i work with an organization who spent a lot of money getting their governance documents in order, and they hired a law firm who did not work with a lot of non-profit organizations, they used up all their budget and still didn’t complete the project, and then they ended up with the document retention and destruction policy that they couldn’t implement because it was so complex that the organization couldn’t feasibly, you know, actually implement the policy. So they came back to me to talk about, you know, changing that and and that’s what you want to avoid, you know, you want to really work with a partner who understands your sector and their area as well. So that’s really the emphasis, the smaller organization that you alluded to should they have an investment adviser? I mean, suppose there annual revenue from all sources is maybe one hundred thousand dollars. Should they have an investment advisor? You know, i mean, i think it’s helpful to have an investment advisor on your board, tony, because it’s, um it’s gives you perspective around the future, and it also again it’s a helpful person. Tohave, you know, perspective that’s on you. But that’s as a volunteer as a volunteer. Now, as far as having an investment advisor i’d say that probably is not the case at that point because you probably need that money to be in cash, but there’s plenty of banks that you can partner with that understand the non-profit sector, you know, you have a community resource is in banking and investment management that understand the sector, and you even do have some investment advisors that will be willing to work with smaller organizations, you know, for not a big fee and the whole the cash account, and they’ll give you some guidance around maybe cash management and help communicate with your accountant at that time of year as well. So, you know, i’m not saying go out there and find yourself an investment adviser. You don’t necessarily need to do that but definitely find a partner, even a bank partner or an investment partner, you know, involuntary capacity or in a day to day capacity that understands your sector needs ok, like the idea of ah, volunteer for the smaller organizations now, do you have? Ah, ah guide, you know, at what asset level? Or maybe what annual income level do you think a professional advisor could could be useful and affordable? You know, the book primarily focuses on organizations that have endowments, right? So you have a certain level there where you’re talking about organisations that probably have at least a million dollars to manage, you know, five hundred thousand a million dollars, however there’s, not a set level, you know, i work with one organization that has had outsourced accounting for, you know, a number of years and all of a sudden this organization that’s been around for five years that has a less than five hundred thousand dollars budget has issues with restricted dollars in some accounting principles that they’ve never had to deal with before, and what they’re realizing is that they don’t have the expertise on the board or in this outsourced accounting resource to provide them with the support they need to get to the next level and to do this more sophisticated accounting. So when was the time going to be right? Well, the time’s right now, because there’s restricted dollars coming in the door. So when would the tide me right to have an investment advisor? You know, maybe you start getting more sophisticated stock gifts, and you need to have an advisor who can help you create, you know, have input on your gift acceptance policy, perhaps, or help you create an investment policy statement. You know, it’s not going to be a sophisticated as having an endowment. And you need all those resource is but i think again, it kind of just the emphasis on having a volunteer who can interact with you on dh has the expertise as a financial advisor is very helpful on every board because any organization, no matter what size, could receive a sizable stock gift or an interesting stock gift. You know, that’s, maybe different too. Not just the typical, but maybe a typical that you need an expert to help you figure out the value. And tio bilich would date it even sometimes stock it’s just older people holding paper certificates. Those air, you know, everybody doesn’t know howto negotiate those this person’s got got a certificate it’s beautiful. You know, it could be framed. Although it’s it’s it’s not a work of art. It’s it’s got value. Um monetary. You no cash value. You know what do what do i do with this piece of paper? That is a thousand shares of ibm from thirty five years ago. You know, i just, um example that i’ve run into sometimes with plan to give it. And i’m sure you do, too. All right, this investment adviser, financial advisor here, she has to be held to standards, right? And they were going to develop benchmarks for them, too. Work against? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, i think, you know, just any anybody work with, you want to create that you’re heavier that that for your development officer, for your executive director, you know, for your board and for anyone that you hyre to work with you, you want to have some some standards, you know? And i think again, ah, they think the checklist in the book is helpful whether you’re small organization or large organization to take a look and ask the questions to those individuals of how their involvement is in the sector. A ce far as you know, you want the attention that you deserve as an organization. So you need to have somebody that’s willing to meet with you three times a year. At least, you know, to talk about, well, what’s happening in this sector. How do you think the markets would affect us if you haven’t an investable assets or what opportunities do you think are out there based on what you’re seeing with your clients, for us to market to our donors, ideas about what they could gift to us. So using the perspective of, you know, maybe the markets are doing really great and there’s a lot of appreciated stocks out there, and then the financial advisors are going to have perspective on that, and you can that could tail spin into your marketing campaign. They used to reach out to your donors, so having a conversation and having someone opened having a conversation kind of a review with you a few times a year, i think that would be a benchmark. You know, when you start talking about larger endowments, you know, there’s a lot of different benchmarks, tony. I mean, there’s so many things that it gets very sophisticated, it does, and you’re looking for services and involvement. You’re looking for individuals or teams who were willing to help you with your marketing, you know, help you educate your donor’s, help you educate your staff. You’re looking for added value services. What are they going to do? To help you support your mission goals, are they going to help you train your board? You know what? How khun making contribute to your organisation as part of the team? Teo move things forward with your mission by connecting with your board members and your donors and your executive staff. So it’s more than just what are they doing to have? Ah, prudent investment management practice and of course, that measurement is all about, you know, looking at the performance based on your goals as an organization, you’re spending policy kind of the risks that you’re willing to take so that’s, you know, i think that’s but broader answer then you might have been looking for but, you know, that’s kind of to say that there’s not one or two benchmarks, it depends on the size it depends on what they’re doing for you. Yeah, a lot of factors on dh let’s talk about the volunteers that may be able to help with creating some of those benchmarks for the financial advisor the investment committee of aboard should every is there are asking a different way is there is there are a level of non-profit that doesn’t need to. Have a nen vestment committee. Well, i should everybody have one. No, everybody shouldn’t have one. I don’t think it’s a necessary committee for every every board i’m on, i’m on a few boards, as you mentioned and they’re smaller and we don’t have investment. Committee’s, we don’t have a need for that. You know, once you have an endowment or a quasi endowment or, you know, significant now twenty martignetti non-profit radio jargon jail. I’m going to let you go on endowment as that’s pretty widely recognized, however, quasi endowment gets you skirting very close to the prison bars. Eso define define quasi endowment for quick parole, so typically an organizational call it a quasi endowment if they don’t really have endowment dollars coming in, but the’s air dollars that they’re preserving to use for operational purposes or to meet program goals. But there’s, no endowment principle around it. Where there’s a spending, you know, a spending percentage that’s dedicated from this dollars. Okay, so it’s a little bit different? Because donors haven’t said you need to put this money in and use x percentage board has directed, right? It wants toe preserve this as endowment, right? They want to preserve thiss thes dollars on dh you know, what i’ve noticed is that it comes at a certain level, so, you know, when you have five million dollars sitting in the bank, you need to do something with it and you don’t want to spend it on operating expenses. You wanted to go tour program and you have a more sophisticated model towards using the dollars basically so, you know, i would say investment committee’s, so investment committee’s, if you have dollars that you’re ready to invest, so these air dollars that you let’s say you have your cash reserves and you’re comfortable is a board with your cash reserves at six months or twelve months, whatever that might be, and then all of a sudden you have more than that. Okay, so now what you going to do with those dollars that you’re willing to say we are commited tio not spending these dollars? This is not for operating expenses. We don’t need them to cover our reserves, so we’re going to invest them once you get to that, invest them, you know, mode or to that point, you need an expert to help you invest them. You don’t want to just randomly make decisions that’s when you look at we need investment policy statement, which is basically a road map that says here’s, how much risk we’re willing to take as a group for this organization, here’s, how we’re going to prudently manage these dollars going forward here are all the points, as far as you know, asset allocation so how much in stocks and bonds and cash, you know, here’s, how we’re going to diversify it? Are we going to have small, large, you know, alternative investments? That’s really, the diversification kind of jargon, if you will or terminology rather. So once you get to that point, then you want to get a group of experts in a room or dedicated volunteers who understand well, the mission of the organization and the goals as faras creating a spending policy, you know, like, how much money do we need from this pool of assets in order to fund the program that we have the objective of funding? And and also, you know, the investment, the markets, the economy, you know, typically an investment committee has a lot of investment professionals on it, and then you start interviewing investment professionals to help you to help orchestrate that group to lead them, if you will, through a process of developing a formal investment policy statement and spending policy, and what’s the relationship between the committee of volunteers and the professional that they that they end up hiring well, i mean, they’ve hired a professional, right? So you say they’re professionals, well, they would look at them is, you know, there is his or her boss, right? Like a ce faras that goes, but i think the real relationships when they’re successful is a partnership. And so, although the individuals in the room might be investment professionals and have, you know, outlooks on the market and that’s what they do in their day job and so there in the no, you know, the objective of thie investment professional who leads them is to help them diversify their thinking and to focus on the objectives of the nonprofit organization versus their personal relationships with money were their focus in their job and their firms perspective on the economy and that whole thing. So the role is to have a partnership where you allow the financial professional that you hyre to guide. You through a profit process that’s focused on the mission of the organization versus just looking at the markets, so not just looking at how did it perform, but are we reaching our goals? So if we had a goal to spend five percent of this chunk of money every year, you know you might have a plan with that financial professional that you’re goingto make seven percent a year that’s kind of the goal, you know, then don’t look for ten you know what i mean? And and so it’s really interesting because that’s, what i see a lot is when organizations have investment committees who are very sophisticated sometimes thie expectation is to outperform the market where the rial expectation when you’re working with investment professional who’s focused in the nonprofit sector, is to not outperform the market it’s to get as much as possible with this little risk is possible to meet the mission goals. I also see sometimes there are people on the investment committee who are sophisticated investors themselves, professional advisors, but they’re not acquainted with the non-profit side and all the all the features and peculiarities that you’re alluding to when you say you know you want a professional advisor who is familiar with what’s happening in the nonprofit sector, right? I know i see a lot sometimes tension because the volunteers have one perspective and the professional advisor or in bigger organizations, advisers have the other perspective that they were brought on for, but sometimes there’s conflict between the two of them. Yeah, i see disconnect there often, you know? I mean, it’s very funny because i was speaking to a board the other day and they were talking about revenue generation, and they were talking to it, like, like the organization with selling widgets, you know? And i had to explain to them, you know, we’re not selling widgets, we’re connecting with donors, and we can’t project the outcomes like you would if you were selling a product because these were people that were marketers and and sales people out in the for-profit world, you know, and and so it’s, a little bit different the same way on the investment side, one of the concepts that hope we could talk about later, perhaps, is the bryant blind risk modeling tony so that’s the model that we talk about in the book that addresses the fact that there’s going to be investment professionals and individuals with multiple perspectives on money, on an investment committee, and and that there’s, a way of helping them test them, basically, to help them understand how to think together about the non-profit versus thinking from their individual perspective, we got to go away for a couple minutes when we come back. Tony’s, take two and joy hunter show. You stays with us, and i hope that you do, too. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get me anything. E-giving cubine are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m lost him a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna hi, i’m bill mcginley, president, ceo of the association for healthcare philanthropy. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Oppcoll time for tony’s take too i’m sorry, i can’t send live listener love today, but because we’re pre recorded a couple of days, but all the regular listeners are, but you’re out there. North carolina, new york city, california, washington, oregon from time to time texas welcome live listener love if you’re out there and, of course, to everybody else. Who’s listening live and asia asia always checking in korea, japan welcome live listener love to you, china, of course, australia, we’ve been hearing from australia not realize that’s, not part of asia give me a break, but it occurs to me that we sometimes have australia listeners to so live listeners love to everybody and of course, those podcast pleasantries. Many thousands of people listening to the podcast pleasantries out to all of you listening in time shift. I love planned e-giving and i was reminded of this just late last week when i delivered a pretty short, like twenty minute program to a group of seniors at a parish at a church on long island, and they were just such a delightful group, you know, i don’t think there was anybody under sixty five and certainly the vast. Majority were over seventy. All retired, i’d say. And they were just a delight to be with, you know, they even though they’re all ah facing, you know, lots of doctor’s appointments and their own health issues and even deaths of friends. Um, they were still just ah, you know, sort of a relaxed and easy going group to be with. They called themselves. Yes, young, energetic seniors. That was a name of the group. Yes, whatever the you know, the there there, paris. And it was the yes group, and they were just a joy to be around. And it just reminded me how much i love planned e-giving. And if there’s one thing i miss about being ah wage slave and an employee as a director of planned e-giving it’s it’s. More of that face-to-face donor contacts. You do some as a consultant, but not as much. And it was just a lovely morning, and i was only there for about an hour, like i said, twenty minute program, but was a real pleasure, teo, to be with the young, energetic seniors. Earlier this week, i was at bebe con the blackbaud conference outside washington d c and i got tons of interviews, did eleven interviews for future shows on things like dr seuss and digital storytelling and board fund-raising fraud, protection, very interesting conversation and fraud protection, protecting your checks and the paper that your checks are printed on very interesting, creating a sustained e-giving program moving more donors into your thousand dollars e-giving society on and lots of others, and they’ll be, as i said on future shows, and i thank everybody at blackbaud and the b beak unconference or about twenty, three hundred people. There was great to be on the on the, uh, the expo hall stage doing these interviews all day earlier this week, it was it was monday and that is tony’s take two for friday, fourth of october thirty ninth show of the year. Joy is still here in the studio. That’s good. I’m glad you didn’t run out let’s talk about another role just for a few minutes because we we do want to spend time on our strategic development plan two over on the fund-raising side, but another roll involved in all this the the fund-raising staff what’s their what’s, their role with respect to the investment advisor the investment committee. How are these all supposed to be integrated? Wouldn’t it be great if they were all integrated? That’s, the that’s, the that’s, the nirvana we’re shooting for. How do we how do we start to get their will? You know it’s so interesting, tony. Because i the whole premise of the book, was to bridge this. These ideas, you know, they invest the importance of investment management and the importance of, you know, asset and revenue generation. You know, like, where the money is going to come from boards really good about focusing on most boards. Really good about focusing on, you know, investment management and, you know, looking at the budgets and dictating kind of like, well, here’s, how much money we need to reach strategic goals, but not necessarily as focused on, you know, what is going on with the development team? What are their needs? How are they going to reach these goals? You know, what’s happening in the in the environment as faras, you know, donor kind of the evolution of the donor, the interest of the donor, like were talking about earlier and kind of strategies and solutions around that. And, you know, one of the things that i talk about with organizations and we try to connect in the book around is the communication strategy of the fund development team. You know, through the chief development officer, director, development, you know, whoever has that key role to the board members like that relationship and the importance of the relationship. So i can’t say that i specifically see the connection to the investment committee, per se it’s more of a relationship with the board on board. And, yeah, okay, well, since you spent a lot of time talking to organizations about this relationship, what, what what should the fund-raising staff be doing itself? Tio keep the board informed and toe move them to understanding the problems around you can resource generation, and i would call it fund-raising talking about the same thing. What should the fund-raising staff be doing toe help educate the board that’s, you know that’s, my favorite thing to talk about wayne. S o basically, you know, they need teo give the board the tools first, any education, so education being they need to have a part. And i know this can be complex sometimes at the board meetings to talk about what’s actually happening in fun development, apart from here’s how much money we’ve just raised, but teo be involved in the conversation around, you know, what is the current environment look like? Because the board members sometimes there they lose perspective on this, but, you know, they’re not doing it there today, right in the fund-raising staff is absolutely and, you know, and they have responsibility, the board members around strategy and being effective community advocates, you know, being out there and helping contribute to the development efforts on and again, they lose perspective of that sometimes, and i think that the fun development team can help them to reengage and tio reconnect with the perspective around their role and responsibility the board members, that is, by giving them updates, here’s what’s happening with our donor base should just be a part of every every agenda i think this fund-raising absolutely, i mean, i absolutely think so because it’s important. To keep connection, i think that one of the disconnects i see though it is when the fund development team, even if they’re doing that let’s, say they have representation on the board there, talking about it at the board meeting, they’re having expectations around what the board members should be doing as far as going out there and helping them to generate interest in new donors and prospects and dollars, and they don’t give them the tools. And so i think it’s important for the fun development team to be part of whether it’s aboard retreat it does need to be usually a separate time, but giving the board the tools, helping them understand what a case for support iss not just the mission of the organization, but, you know, does the community know that the organization exists? You know, if the organization disappeared tomorrow, would the community notice without impact and then would they care? You know, in answering that question, why should the community care that we’re here is something that every boardmember should be able to dio i’m not so sure they’re able to do that. What about a development committee of the board should that? Be on should be in every organization, it’s just two people. Yeah, i absolutely think that that there needs to be that focus. And i mean, for so many reasons, if it’s to help support the efforts of the staff and educating the rest of the board members, you know, i think right boardmember talkto boardmember differently than fund-raising staff talked to board members, it’s just it’s the nature of the relationship. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, playing giving, you know, you’re always working up that’s you love playing, giving right? And my big thing with organizations that are trying to move their plan giving forward is that they even advocate on the board to love plan giving with them, you know, that is so important, and it is a peer-to-peer we would talk about peer-to-peer asks with the board and development, we don’t always talk about peer-to-peer communication and leveraging the board to help you move your goals forward. Excellent way, i think, of describing the role of the development committee on the board to be advocates for the fundraisers, the development staff who, as i said, you know, we agreed can’t talk to the other board members the way fellow board members can so advocating right for resource is understanding what’s happening in the culture in the community? Non-profit fund-raising wise, etcetera, yeah, absolutely, i think so kind of the tool kit that i talk about that case for support and all that in interaction and giving them some perspective around how to articulate, you know, why it matters that the organization exists. The second piece of it really is i’m looking at the impact statements or the impact goals, so thinking about maybe specifically by program like, what are we doing? And how is that what they have? What are the results that were having one of the outcome’s not impact, but outcomes like you’re talking about? Dr pendant pan is being channelled, okay, so the outcomes, what are our goals for outcomes? And then whatever our accomplishments around outcomes and how do we articulate that? And then finally, every boardmember should have a personal passion statement, they should know why they’re sitting in the seat they should know, you know why? Why? It matters for them to tell their story out there in the community. And so those are the three things that i think that the development team could dio in order to engage with their board and move forward there. Other mission goals. All right, let’s, talk a little about the strategic development plan, which we’ve alluded to a few times. What? What is it? Nufer so it’s, my favorite term, i’m getting out. I’m in, i’m making all your favorites. Favorite topic, favorite term. You know, we’ll have detail. We’ll go into detail just broadly. How would you, you know, like, define it so broadly? It’s ah, road map for the development team to meet their goals, to think through the target segments that they’re reaching out to to think about the initiatives that they’re using to reach out to them, to think about the timing and the responsibility around each of those like who’s going to do that so don’t put twenty things down it and initiatives if there’s only one person to dio those things, you know that i see that all the time on dh, then if there’s any dollars associated with it, so it really gives up a measurable plan, teo reaching the development goals and an important that it’s scaled appropriately a staff of one or two devoted to fund-raising can’t do what a staff of a dozen khun do you know, in terms of events and then there’s grant grant, you know, grantspace be a part of their their responsibility, but then also grow individual fund-raising and have an annual fund with its monthly sometimes weekly production goals toward the end of the year on then support a golf outing, you know? I mean, one or two people can only do so much, it sounds like you see a lot of plans that are just unreasonable. Yeah, and i also see a lot of a lot of organizations that are smaller and doing all those things that don’t have a plan, which makes me always concerned because if you have fifty million things that you’re focused on is you just went through, you know, all these different initiatives, you know, having a plan helps to put things in perspective. So for example, if you are to people and you have all of these events, you know, when you put it on paper, you can show executive leadership, you know? Okay, so here’s, what we have, this is what we’re doing. Does this look feasible to you, you know? And then it does put perspective around things, and it also it it creates accountability, tony, so that you’re not just doing things to do them because you’ve always done them, but you’re doing them and it’s in an or innocent organized way that you can say, and here’s, what we got from this so it’s worth, the energy that we’re putting toward it is a strategic development plan like this created by staff and then approved by the board or what’s the what’s the process or is it just all among staff? Well, my, what do you like to see? What i like to see is the organization create a task force to help the developed the strategic plan so that you have multiple perspectives because i think that sometimes you’re missing out on some targets, segments or the perception of the community on who you are as an organization. So some initiatives that you could use that may be outside of the box thinking to create a strategic development plan and that would include, you know, that’s a meeting that happens, you know, maybe two meetings, the task force meetings tto help the development team create the plan. And then where does it go after the task force or the test forces? Employees, the note, the task, force’s, donors, board members, community members, staff get together, maybe it’s, conducted by the development officer, and then the development officer goes back, creates a plan, comes back to the development committee, an ideal situation who looks at it, blesses it and then gets it approved by the board. Excellent. Yeah, we got to go away for a couple minutes. Joyce stays with us for another segment, and you better also. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Latto durney are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? 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Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Let’s go deeper on the strategic development plan. What what elements do you like to see in it? Well, i like to see the target segmentation be very specific, so that means that if we are going to talk about loyal donors, i like, for example, with plan giving that portion of the chart. You know, i like to see all of the areas first of all, more broadly represented, so individual corporate foundations, all of those areas represented in the plan on dh, then to break it down further looking at, you know, the types of individuals. So if we’re going to talk, for example, about playing giving, as i mentioned, i don’t want to just see loyal donors, you know, i like to break out gift annuity donors, legacy society members and then loyal donors, you know, in a with parentheses around kind of how we’re defining that so specific definitions with with corporations, for example, i like to see what types of corporations are we trying to reach out to what makes them different from one another? Because what’s, really the key, once you’ve identified your target segment, is the initiatives that you outreach to them that’s the activity right, that you’re going to dio and it has to match up with that audience that you’re trying to reach. So if you’re too general about the audience, then you can’t match up the activities. We end up with a plan that’s not feasible because so there’s the target segments, right? What else? What else are you in there? What’s. The other thing that needs to be in there is who’s responsible for the activities. So instead of just putting you know, we’re going to reach out to loyal donors with thes three mailings and do this. Thank you’s. It actually says that the staff is going to sorry. Excuse me. Well, i’ll give joy a chance to take a sip of her iced tea. Just ah, explain that they were going to the elements of a strategic development plan. What? What joy likes to see in them feel better. I’m sorry about that. Yeah, so? So when you put the roles and responsibilities in a column, you then it becomes clear what you can give to the board. Like give it back to the board to do eyes in terms of stewardship. You know what? What activities? Are going to be focused for executive leadership on what activities the staff needs to dio and that way. Sometimes when we look at it that way, when we have a small shop where there’s maybe one or two people in development, it gives them a broader team, you know, when they’re thinking through oh, yeah, well, i could delegate this to the board. They really should be engaged in writing thank you notes and that’s part of our stewardship campaign. So so that’s another element that the last element that i think is really critical is tio think through initiatives in terms of acquisition, cultivation and stewardship, and sometimes i think acquisition and cultivation end up in the same bucket because we’re constantly reconnecting with donors and trying to cultivate to the next level. Um, and but when we divide those responsibilities or those areas up, we end up with a really good plan that again, we can we can understand who should be working in that area. You know, if a development officer is a one man shop, they need to be out there connecting and getting new dollars in the door, you know? But the stewardship has to happen so who’s going to be doing that, and again, it it creates clarity. Um, the last element is really that budget line on that column and that’s an important column, because if you’ve identified that something is a critical initiative, you wanna have dollars associated with that initiative to go back to the board and say, look, this is really important for acquisition strategy. We’re going to need a thousand dollars to do this mailing or two thousand dollars, so you need to really identify who you could tell them who you’re going to go after. Who’s the target what’s the initiative who’s going to be responsible, how much it’s gonna cost. And then you can have another column for well, what happened after we did that, which is my favorite, which is measuring results because without knowing what the effect is that something you really shouldn’t be doing it again? You know this also, the plan serves as a very good, i think reminder for boards as to what their responsibilities are, because you, as you said, you want to see who’s responsible for each activity. This is a very good way. Maybe of educating the board. As to where they fit in in the overall fund-raising plan? Yeah, and the reason i talk so much about strategic development plans is because organizations typically spend a lot of time and boards in a lot of time on the organizational strategy. So we’re you know, we’re doing a strategic plan were strategic planning. We have a vision spent all this money on a consultant, and here we go and here’s our big plan and this’s the budget. Now go get the money, and there really needs to be a strategy around getting the money, and it should be formalized just like the vision of the organization is and that’s kind of the whole point of bringing it up. Ok, is our development plans something we we look back to a couple times a year to see benchmark against our you know, of course, the outcomes, the results are important. We’re looking back at this from time to time. Absolutely. I mentioned the development committee should be in place for any size organization, and they should be reviewing this on a monthly basis with the development officer to make sure that they’re doing what they can to support that. Individual reaching the goals and to help the the organization move toward their mission achieving their mission, that is, and it should be an active document. Tony so it’s not a strategic plan that sits in a drawer. Basically it’s a development plan. That’s it’s, actionable items. And you should be checking in with it, you know, on a monthly basis to make sure you’re doing all the things you set out to dio. And if you can’t, then it needs to change. So it’s not like it’s set in stone. It really can change. But then you better think about how the revenue from that activity that you were counting on how it’s going to be generated if it’s not going to be generated through that particular segment. Yeah, i hate to see the development plans or any plan strategic plan more, more globally. That is done. And then it’s, like checked off. Okay, put it in the three ring binder. Put it on the shelf. Ok, we’ve done that let’s move on to something else and then never revisited. We have just a couple minutes left and i want to ask you what it is that you love. About the work that you do. Volunteer work. What do i love? What do i not love about what i do? I mean, every day i wake up and i have a giant smile because i get to smile a lot and i’m sorry for interrupting you love moment, but you’re smiling all the time. It’s. Remarkable. Thank you. Yeah. No, i mean it’s. Amazing. I get to touch so many organizations and i feel like, you know, everybody’s mish, i get very passionate about a lot of missions. You know, i have to be very careful because i get engaged and i want to help everyone. I think that that sense of being able to help to move missions forward just a little bit further every day is just very fulfilling. Its really a wonderful, wonderful opportunity i have in my life join hunter show you she’s, co author of non-profit investment and development solutions published by wile e. You can find her at her email. She offers j h sh o u c h a l l o u at yahoo dot com. If we were if we were in french, i would not have had to spell. I mean, if we were in france, i would not have had to spell your name, but i did for thanks so much for being guest house. My pleasure. Thank you for having me my pleasure. And thanks for coming in the studio. I like that a lot. Next week, it’s going to be an archive show, but i don’t know which one. I promise you. I will. I will pick a winner. They’re all winners, but i’ll pick ah first, you know ah, best in show winner if you like this show, then you’ll want to catch my podcast that i do for the chronicle of philanthropy, which is devoted to fund-raising only it’s fund-raising fundamentals. It’s a monthly each episode is ten minutes. You get short bursts of fund-raising brilliance and there’s a new one out this week on crowdfunding, and that is on the cardinal of philanthropy website, and you’ll also find fund-raising fundamentals on itunes. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz, our line producer shows social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point oh, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules our music is by scott stein. Oh, i hope you’ll be with me next week. Friday, one to two p, m eastern. Talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Get him. Cubine are you a female entrepreneur ready to break through? Join us at sexy body, sassy soul, where women are empowered to ask one received what they truly want in love, life and business. Tune in thursday, said noon eastern time to learn timpson juicy secrets from inspiring women and men who, there to define their success, get inspired, stay motivated and to find your version of giant success with sexy body sake. Sold every thursday ad. Men in new york times on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? 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