Tag Archives: nonprofit investing

Nonprofit Radio for November 8, 2021: Strategic Plan. Done. Now Pay For It.

My Guest:

Sherry Quam Taylor: Strategic Plan. Done. Now Pay For It.

It’s a common challenge. The strategic plan is ambitious, but there’s not enough revenue to fund all the future excitement. Sherry Quam Taylor returns to get to the root problems that are holding your nonprofit back from full revenue potential. She’s CEO of Quam Taylor, LLC.




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[00:00:02.84] spk_2:

[00:01:43.74] spk_1:
and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of tinnitus if I had to hear that you missed this week’s show. Strategic plan done now pay for it. It’s a common challenge. The strategic plan is ambitious, but there’s not enough revenue to fund all the future excitement. Sherry, Kwame Taylor returns to get to the root problems that are holding your nonprofit back from full revenue potential. She’s Ceo of KWAme Taylor LLC. I’m Tony’s take to holiday time off. We’re sponsored by turn to communications. Pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o What a pleasure to welcome Sherri Kwame Taylor back to nonprofit radio She’s Ceo of KWAme Taylor LLC. She works with nonprofit ceos and boards are struggling to secure the unrestricted revenue needed to fulfill the dreams in their strategic plans. Sure. He helps them reimagine their entire approach to revenue generation and reveals how they can break free from the limitations of traditional fundraising. Our consulting practice is at KWAme taylor dot com Sherry. Welcome back to nonprofit radio

[00:01:46.14] spk_0:
tony How are you? I’m well, good. Thanks for having Yeah, Thanks for having me. I was excited to see this pop up on my calendar today.

[00:01:54.80] spk_1:
You weren’t planning for

[00:01:56.77] spk_0:
it for a week. I mean, yeah. As I worked all weekend long for my, for my content. Yes.

[00:02:01.75] spk_1:
You’ve been struggling at it, not struggling but you’ve been working on for weeks. Right?

[00:02:05.64] spk_0:
Yes, I’m so nervous.

[00:02:21.44] spk_1:
All right. So, so I outlined the problem in the introduction. But before we get to those root problems shouldn’t funding be a part of the strategic plan? So that the plan and its financing are considered together and not separately, ideally.

[00:03:27.14] spk_0:
You’re speaking my language already tony Yeah, it really should. But the problem is so many organizations come to me with a strategic plan that has all these amazing ideas, amazing next steps, you know, growing their programs and mission. But the strategic initiative kind of says we need more money or more major gifts or we should do more of these things. And so it actually, I find that it’s addressing more of the symptoms of an organization’s, who’s funding has maybe plateaus or maybe they just kind of raised the same amount of money every year. But oftentimes the funding problem and more times than not, it’s actually fixed at the root. And so yes, it should be included in there. And yes, it always is. But so often, uh, you know, I have a client now who, who’s brought me their strategic plan, it’s like we had this big growth, uh, initiative and like we just aren’t hitting it. And so the how do we do that is usually missing in the strategic plan.

[00:03:59.54] spk_1:
Okay, so all right. So if it’s addressed, it’s addressed little superficially. We’re not, we’re not we’re not getting to the root cause it’s kind of glossed over, we’ll increase our fundraising. Well, maybe maybe they identify a couple of initiatives, but you’re saying right, they’re not getting to the root problem. And so they’ve got this wonderful plan and a lot of excitement around it for the next 3-5 years but they’re not hitting their revenue targets, that they need to realize the true excitement of the, of the, of the outcomes.

[00:05:43.14] spk_0:
Absolutely. And so it’s a lot of, you know, more and more corporate sponsorships, more grants, more events, more appeals. Some of those are good things like don’t hear me say they aren’t, but we have to remember also, typically the board or leadership whose having a great amount of input in the strategic plan. They’re usually expert to something else. You know, they aren’t strategic fundraisers. Um, so, so they’re doing their absolute best. So sometimes we have to get the voice of outsiders. I know you would agree with me to come in and say, actually that’s not how that problem gets fixed. And so I so it’s a this is really, you know, the strategic plan, which is what we’re talking about today is is one part of it. And the kind of the cousin comment I would say coming to me and it’s really ties to this is um, you know, we have this budget, we want to grow the budget, but we’re always in the red were never raising enough. And so there’s this disconnect that, you know, frankly, I study and watched so closely in my practice and I’ve just really been able to see quickly, you know, what is the sticking point? Why is your funding platt Toad? Why is it another year in the red? And so we’re going to talk about these, these symptoms versus root cause because, uh, you know, my strongest clients these last few years have been the ones who said We’re kind of not going back to doing what we were doing pre 2020. We’re actually going to push ahead and, and, and do things differently. Run our businesses differently, solve the problem at the root so that we actually can have greater impact, which, gosh, I’m so thankful they’re doing that because there’s never been a time we’ve needed them more.

[00:06:20.94] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s always right. It’s always, it’s always the truth. I mean, it’s always the case. You know, always the case, especially with the pandemic, but beyond the pandemic, nonprofits take on causes and missions and goals that, that individuals can’t do that. Government isn’t suited for that. The corporate sector isn’t going to take on. In fact, a lot of times the corporate sector is antithetical to the, to the goals. Um, but non profits, you know, our, our, that sector is ideally suited for work of all different types and, and raising money to do it, but they’re not raising sufficient money. Um, so essentially, you know, you’re saying, you know, you can’t keep doing the same things and expect different outcomes.

[00:06:37.16] spk_0:
Yeah, I guess that’s

[00:06:40.04] spk_1:
it. I can get real problems.

[00:08:22.14] spk_0:
Yeah, I think that’s a great way to phrase that it’s, you know, in some of these symptoms of, of perhaps we’ve been kind of trying to do the same thing or, or trying to do more unless, right. Um, you know, a lot of these symptoms are our cash flows too tight because maybe our strategy is, yeah, we need more money, but it’s too restricted. Or maybe then if we’re not bringing in enough restrictive cash, were unable to grow the reserve, were unable to grand grow our endowment. Um, you know, the other thing we’re gonna talk a little bit about today is that never being able to justify overhead spend, Right? Like if I hear that, it’s like, I know fundraising situation that we need to fix so I want here, here’s what I’ll tell you. I asked on a weapon or I think it was last mid last week, I started with a question and frankly it probably sounded like a bit of a silly question on the webinar and what I asked was, do you need more money, does your nonprofit need more money now? I knew the answer to that, right? But typically it’s like, yeah, we need more money. That’s what our strategic plan says, but rarely does an organization just need more money. They need flexible money. They need unrestricted money to accomplish the things the initiatives that growth in their strategic plan. You’ve got to have money for overhead. And I find that that’s why a lot of times we can never fund the strategic plan is stated because we aren’t fundraising for unrestricted cash from a single source says you’re makers, meaning I can pick up the phone and talk to chris he crested sherry from, you know, and and those gifts are not from people who truly understand the need and actually want to give to every year. And that’s a very specific types of type of fundraising. We’ll unpack that today. But, but so often I’m finding that we’re not doing the fundraising things that are actually attracting those donors.

[00:09:02.04] spk_1:
All right. So let’s get to some of these root root problems. What, what, what, what can we talk about? What you just mentioned? We’re not attracting the right donors. You know, you’re concerned about attracting the right people. Talking to them about the right things about the true needs for overhead for endowment for growth. I should ask you where do you want to start with these root causes?

[00:10:15.84] spk_0:
Let’s start here. I’m going to address that once. Third, because here’s the thing. We always start with the fundraising issues, right? But that’s that’s actually like step three or four over here. So the biggest thing I want to talk about one of the most fun things, I guess I should say that I love talking about is this concept and frankly tony I wish I coined the phrase, but I didn’t, but it’s irrational frugality. I love that phrase, you know, I suffer from it rational frugality. And, and what I mean by that is, um, we have to start being comfortable if we’re gonna solve frankly some of the world’s and nations and states and communities most pressing issues we have to really ask ourselves, are we making $1,000 decisions and expecting giant results? Or are we making $10,000 decisions? $100,000 decisions? And so it costs money to raise money. We need to be spending more on overhead so that we can put more gasoline in the engine to raise more money for programs. And so often I see the handcuffs on organizations when we’re trying to make these big growth initiatives, but we haven’t taken the time to actually look at what does the spend need to be for us to actually reach those initiatives.

[00:10:29.84] spk_1:
Well, let’s let’s let’s let’s dispel the myth that overhead is bad because you’re talking about overhead, like investing in people you want to do more. Absolutely want to do more fundraising. You might very well need more fundraisers. Absolutely. That’s salary and benefits and other forms of compensation. So let’s get rid of this concern that overhead is bad,

[00:12:16.74] spk_0:
right? And so I hear you, you know, I kind of sometimes make these statements like, I’m not talking about scarcity anymore. We’re beyond that, you know, are sectors beyond that. But I gotta tell you it’s, it’s kind of playing out. I think in a different version or a greater version and this is what, you know, all size organizations. Uh, I think we’re seeing part of that in this great resignation. I know we could have a whole whole discussion today about that. But um, the, if you saw my actually, if you saw my screen right now on my computer, you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s an ORC chart looking five years out and it’s saying what is the spend we have to make, you know, parole to actually be raising the money. That’s in your strategic plan. What is the true math? And so it’s so often you’re so right comes in the, in the package of I’m expecting my one development director to be all, all of revenue, all of marketing, all of communications. Oh, and because you also do, you know, social media and so so often, I mean, I’m gonna be really frank here. So often the reason our strategic plans are not being funded or not, we’re not able to fund them is because that person is wearing, you know, the hats of four staff people. And so I know it feels like an investment. I know that spend feels scary, but when you run the numbers and then you have the right person on the bus. You make so much more money if you have to be comfortable with spending and investing in your organization to actually make those leaps and bounds that you want to.

[00:12:25.24] spk_1:
Alright, right person on the bus. You’re talking about the ceo are you talking about donors?

[00:13:44.04] spk_0:
Uh, in that context, I was talking about staff members, I was talking about, um, you know, oftentimes what we find and this is also why I love, you know, the sector that we work in. Maybe it’s a program person who, you know, was really great with the foundations when they were coming in. So now they found themselves over on the fundraising side and they’re awesome. It foundation grant request proposals, reporting maybe they’re good at planning an event, you know, good at telling the story of those that are impacted. But oftentimes they don’t have matric gift experience. They don’t know how to sit across the table with an investment level donor and lead them to an ASC secure their best gift. And so it’s the spend on the staff tony But I’d also say this great resignation, you know, buzz, we’re all talking about is also that, um, it’s the skills to equip the staff to do the things that actually attract the overhead monies that attract the flexible funding that attract unrestricted gifts that allow you to put gas in the engine. So there’s a disconnect on the skill set so often of who’s on the bus and, the types of fundraising an organization needs to be doing.

[00:15:29.04] spk_1:
All right. So, you know, we need to be honest with ourselves. Our boards are donors about what, what are true need is fund this ambitious strategic plan. And we’re deceiving ourselves if we’re thinking that the person that’s doing the, the marketing communications can now take on fundraising when we have, when we have an increased revenue plan because of the strategic plan. It’s just not, it’s not fair to the person. It’s not fair to the organization. It’s not fair to the cause that you’re, that you’re working toward your just not being honest with any of those things or any of those, any of those entities, people or, or the, or the cause itself, it’s time for a break. Turned to communications content creation. Do you need something written for you? Have you been thinking about a project that is gonna take hours? You just haven’t gotten to it. But it’s going to be valuable when it gets done. Turn to can help you. Like, I’m thinking white papers, research, case studies, They can write that stuff for you. They can learn about what it is you want to say, get to understand your work, your mission, even your values and incorporate that into the piece or the series that they do for you. So if you’ve got this big backburner project has been on your to do list and it involves writing turn to, can help you turn to communications because your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o

[00:16:01.54] spk_0:
the second underlying root cause which you’ve so so nicely led me right into um, frankly would be this budget element, right? Like, uh, like you said, we have to be honest with ourselves of what the true need is and and not, well, let’s, let’s just budget and squeak by neck If we make more money, it’s gonna be great. But we actually need to have a plan of how would you fully finance your organization?

[00:16:02.67] spk_1:
Right. What does full financing look

[00:16:04.27] spk_0:
like? What it actually

[00:16:27.64] spk_1:
doesn’t look like? You know, a five or 8% increase in fundraising from, from the previous year that you could reasonably expect that one person to get. You know, it probably looks like something much much larger than that, which that one person just isn’t capable of doing so take off the shackles. Stop being, stop deceiving yourself and all those other entities that I named and the cause itself and and right. All

[00:16:32.03] spk_0:
right. Look, I love that you’re up on on my soapbox with you Tony to the funding. Well, because

[00:16:37.81] spk_1:
it’s deception. You know, you’re you’re you’re lying to yourself and and everybody else was important around you and to the cause that you’re that you’re working time self

[00:18:53.14] spk_0:
can I say something about this budgeting thing. I can’t because I love talking budgeting, which always surprises people when it’s like wait, I thought she was the fundraising person Like I am, but we gotta, that’s over here until you’re honest with yourself and you’ve actually created a true need space budget Not this week by right where you can sit down with someone and say, can I share with you? What are $3.6 million dollars need? Looks like this year. Honestly, even though maybe the board approved is a 3.4, but you know, you need a little bit more in reserve and you know, cash flow is tight. And you know, you know, you, you have some growth initiatives coming down the pipeline until you can honestly sit and say and explain to them. I’m talking top of the pyramid, right? The top, top level donors until you can explain to them what the true need is then and only then can your team, your fundraising team actually put a plan in place to hit that 3.6 in my, in my example. So so often people come to me, I mean I’d say more than not with their budgets. I always ask for the profit loss statement and it will say, well, yeah, we have a $5 million need In the income on that same budget will say 4.2. I don’t, I don’t know how we’re going to do it. Right. So you we have to have the plan to fully finance to fully balance The expense and the revenue. And I find that we spend 90% of our time and I’m going to talk on board a little bit here too. We’re spending 90% of our time approving the expenses and nit picking all the stamps and that we couldn’t ever do that. You know, our percentages scary, scary, scary. We’re not spending enough time on literally understanding what we need to be doing month by month. That actually reaches that number and then all of us leadership staff board aligning every hour. We do spend fundraising on those activities that gets you off the spin cycle that gets you onto the things that you need to start doing. So you can start securing more unrestricted cash and invest as flexibly as you need to into your strategic plan.

[00:19:06.44] spk_1:
Investment level. Yeah.

[00:19:08.32] spk_0:
Investment level.

[00:19:19.54] spk_1:
Let’s talk about another root issue, which is you, you, you just started to scratch at it not having investment level conversations with donors. Yeah, let’s let’s let’s let’s let’s just shout out what is one of those conversations look like? Who are we talking to?

[00:22:59.44] spk_0:
Sure, sure. So, you know, this is all about, I suppose the easiest way to say this is, this is about donor segmentation, right? And, and we’re busy. You know, we just said, we’re wearing, you know, 62 hats when we shouldn’t be. But so often I find that we are still approaching donors as a one size fits all. You know, the, my, my methodology, you’ve heard me say this many times tony when you had me on a number of different opportunities to to chat with you, I want everybody giving their best gift to the organization and I want them giving that gift every year. And so if $25 is that person’s best gift, that is remarkable and amazing and I want to serve them as such. But if someone’s giving you $25 and you see their name, you know, on an annual report or you’ve done some sleuth Google searching, it’s like, Oh my gosh, they’re giving $25,000 down the road. Well, we have some work to do. And so, so much of my work is helping teams understand what that investment level conversation looks like. And so I find so many people avoiding it because they’re so worried are we going to do it wrong? Um, you know, I don’t want to be that pushy salesperson, right? I don’t want to be begging or B B that used car salesman. But here’s the thing, you have to be able to sit down and share your plans, your strategic plan. You have to be able to share how you’re going to achieve those initiatives. And most of all you have to be able to articulate the financial need the organization has and way too often the development staff, maybe they don’t have access to it. Or perhaps they don’t understand it. They are not privy to All the numbers, we just walked through. And so I want my fundraisers if somebody has the ability to write 25 500K. I want them sitting down. Of course we’re telling stories. Of course we’re doing all the traditional, you know, helping them understand the crisis, all those things. But the one thing that major donors are dying to hear is about that, what I asked earlier, do you need the money? So I want you sitting down saying, can I share with you our our $3.6 million dollars need this year. Can you share with you? How we’re growing? But I share with you how we’re funded. Uh you know, I can share with you what your gift has done in the last few years and to sit at that table and know the answers to the financial questions that we really, really, really hope that they don’t ask in that meeting. What am I asking? Because those questions are actually indicators of what’s going to keep them from giving their best gift to your mission. And so when I see investment level conversation, I want one on one. You know, that looks like a lot like zoom still these days. Right? I want exclusive information. I want stakeholder language because why? These are people who have also probably business owners and entrepreneurs in the community. These are people who have also had to sit down and ask for investments. They had to sit down and answer the tough questions. So sit down and have that businessperson to businessperson conversation with them so that they really understand what a gift to your mission can do. And so often we default to, well let’s just send them the appeal. Let’s have the event. And I gotta tell you they’re not giving their best gift in those reaction, all types of ways.

[00:23:02.64] spk_1:
Let’s talk a little about a little bit of a tangent or something you just

[00:23:05.68] spk_0:
mentioned. Love a tangent.

[00:23:15.74] spk_1:
Uh, peer to peer soliciting. So maybe this doesn’t, this may not. This is a tangent from the root issues. We’ll get back to the root issues, but you want fundraisers to be talking to the, to their donors as peers say, say, say more about what we shouldn’t be doing and what we

[00:25:14.94] spk_0:
should. Yeah. This, this concept was taught to me by, by my coach and she, she had heard it from a Deborah Tannin who’s a researcher. And so it’s really this concept of um, knowing that the best version of yourself showing up in that donor meeting, it’s just you, you know what I mean by that is not some version of you who thinks they need to show up slick and I’m the fundraising sherry, not that person. It’s just, it’s just you. So when I say peer to peer mindset, I’m doing this on, on equal playing grounds here. Um, it’s really staying in that like, you know, tony Like when we have a conversation like, hey Tony, how’s it going? How’s your weekend really staying in that zone? Um, of course you’re being professional about it, but not turning into the, like I’ve got to get through all my stuff and I’ve got to get them to understand why they should give us the money. And you know, kind of, it almost turns into that, that pushy feeling, right? And that comes out of our mouth. The flip side of that is that, oh gosh, I don’t want to, I don’t know. I think it’s been too soon. I don’t want to appear like I’m begging. And so then our tone turns to, well, I don’t know if you could do it or I don’t know if you would do it. But I wondered if none of those tones that you heard give that donor confidence, you know exactly what you’re gonna do with that gift. And you can’t wait to come back and tell them how their gift has impacted lives and you are offering an amazing opportunity to them today. And so when we stay in this more neutral zone, uh, and I try to do with my own business too, right? Um, that’s when we build the best relationships and that’s when we have trusted relationships and we actually deeply know our donors, We haven’t forced it. That’s when you’re going to secure the best gifts for your organization’s because there’s a deep, deep relationship that’s been built. But too often tony we get in the way of that in our mindset and our, you know, all these, all these crazy things that come to play and in sales and fundraising often get get in the way. So there’s tons of mindset work.

[00:26:05.04] spk_1:
Alright, good. Thank you for that. I wanted I want to focus to understand what you’re thinking is there because there is there’s too much humility and uh huh um, confidence. So all right, let’s go. All right. So let’s go back to our, our root issues. So like we talked about, you know, being honest in investment level, growth planning, being invested. Being honest about what that looks like having these investment level conversations with your, your major donors. What’s another root issue to our failure to be able to fund our strategic

[00:27:03.84] spk_0:
plan, Good time. Right onto that. So then it’s that financing plan and I’ve alluded to this. But what I really mean by that is is everybody on the team aligning their hours with dollars. Right? And so I don’t, I don’t want to miss that because that is a huge part of what I do, helping organizations see what they need to stop doing So they can start doing more strategic fundraising. So in that, what do I mean by that? Well, um, in my, in my world, uh, I want your top 30 donors yielding between 50 and 75% of your overall revenue. And I want those gifts to be unrestricted, that’s where we’re pointing the compass compass. And so our time and our budget must be aligned with that on there, on the expense side, on the revenue side. Okay. And so therefore when,

[00:27:12.74] spk_1:
but I love even when you define what our goal is. Okay, so top 30 donors Funding 50-70% of annual revenue on an unrestricted basis,

[00:27:18.10] spk_0:
50-75%. And I,

[00:27:20.35] spk_1:
Oh yeah, you’re good, you’re good 70%. So now we’ve got something to focus on. So now you’re gonna help us align our time with that goal,

[00:27:52.94] spk_0:
right? And that number feels really scary for some people. You know, it’s like, wait, we don’t we don’t have those people, we don’t have major donors. But it’s equally, it’s equally a math equation as opposed to a random mindset I should say because then we say, well we need to be then spending our time on attracting those donors tony A lot of people come to me and say, how do I find major donors? How do I find people who would, who would give us larger

[00:27:59.73] spk_1:

[00:30:26.14] spk_0:
I’m of the school of Are you doing the things that attract them? Are you having strategic level conversations with others who are among those donors? And saying this is what I’m looking for. We’re looking for people who are interested in this who have a passion for this and really are wanting to invest to changing X, Y and Z. Are you attracting donors? This shift from like finding to attract as it has been a game changer for a lot of my clients who, um, you know, there’s a lot of times that donors don’t understand you need the money. This is crazy because you’re like, well, we’re nonprofit. Who doesn’t understand we don’t need the money. But so often how we’re talking keeps donors from understanding we need the money. Right? And it might be, um, you know, it might be, oh gosh, I saw you. Uh, you know, wow, I’m on the Today Show or I saw that you got this giant, uh, you know, gift, I saw the press release or, or, um, it looks like you’re killing it over there, right? Because because maybe they’re seeing the results of maybe a government contract or, um, you know, all sorts of different things, but that’s why we have to be sitting and presenting the true need, um, and kind of making up that difference. But what I bring up the pyramid in the top 30 concept because so often when we, when we say, okay, Well this is our year strategic plans in place. We’re ready to grow. We default to a lot of the activities there in the bottom part of that pyramid, that bottom 25 percent. And again, I’ve been accused of saying like, you don’t like events and appeals and grant proposals. That’s not the truth. I love those things. But I don’t want them taking 100% of your team’s time? And I also don’t want them taking the board’s time. If your board member, if anyone is hearing this and has written a thing down, this is your thing to write down your, if your board member can give you one hour a month outside of the meetings on something, fashion it better be activities that are attracting the donors and the top part of the pyramid versus the bottom part. Right? Because we’ve got one hour of their time that’s extremely valuable information or it’s an asset to the organization. So we have to make sure we’re doing the things, um, that are leading our investment level donors to a deep understanding of our need. Then we got to ask him for the money. Sit and ask him for the money.

[00:31:13.84] spk_1:
I like this distinction finding versus attracting donors because finding sounds like you’re gonna walk up, you’re gonna stumble on them. Like I might find a beautiful shell on the, on the beach. I’ll find one. Uh, but, but what, what are you doing to attract these folks so that you don’t just stumble on them a couple of year, but you’re, you’re bringing them to the, to the organization. What more a little more about what the board can be doing in finding versus attracting or having these investment level conversations. Maybe some of the board members are the folks you’re having the conversations with aside from, aside from The board members who might be among your top 30 donors? What more can the board be doing to help with finding versus attracting and having these conversations with the right folks

[00:34:08.04] spk_0:
tony I kind of dialed up this conversation of, of roots and symptoms when I was preparing for a board training actually because who better on the team can have an influence on the organization’s comfort level with investing with spending with, with budgeting, uh, with fiduciary responsibility, who better than the board. Right? And so we have to, we have to make sure that they understand what the path is to the money and what the spend is to the money. And so so often I say, you know, I’ll ask the client or if we start working together, I’ll say, what’s the board’s involvement in budgeting as well. They, you kind of get it and approve it. And you know, I, I do reports every month, but that really means they’re looking at the expense and they actually don’t know how they will fully finance the organization, you know, hit a balanced budget or plus plus your reserve. You know, I always want to be cushioned with the reserve. They don’t know how we would fully finance organization and be, do not know what the team should be doing. And if they don’t know if the team should be doing, They don’t know what they should be doing. And so I want the board to deeply deeply understand that you just don’t need more money, but you need flexible money and then what are the things the board members should be doing that actually attracts those donors. And so often, I mean, you know, as you can imagine every, every board training I head into, it’s like don’t make me ask for money. So don’t make me, don’t make me sit and ask for money. I gotta tell you, I rarely have board members asked for money rarely for me. Board members. It’s introducing its networking. It’s educating, it’s connecting. It’s being open to saying, hey, I have been serving on the board of this amazing organization. They’re doing these, you know, before school literacy programs in our community. Are you ever interested in hearing about that? I mean, I’ve been astounded what that looks like. The bds. A rockstar. Could, could we set up a 15 minute coffee one of these mornings? You see, I stayed peer to peer right there. Do you see how it was? It’s not a script. Um, I would rather have all my board members doing that and then letting the equipped team lead that donor and serve that donor create a great donor experience for them. You know, of course the board member is going to be popping in maybe in thanking or popping in when, um, you know, there’s an opportunity to, to really cultivate, but, but we have to make sure that the board members are not spending all of our time on transactional fundraising events, appeals send me the name. Can you post this on facebook? I don’t want my board touching facebook like they can if they want, but I want them doing strategic activities that align their hours with dollars.

[00:37:07.93] spk_1:
It’s time for Tony’s take two holiday time off. Colin Powell died on October 18 and I saw on twitter someone I follow Glenn Kirshner, I was telling a story about what Colin Powell said to his employees at the state department when he was newly inaugurated because Glenn Kirshner used to repeat this to his team. So the story is that general Powell said If I come to your office at 6:30 PM and you are not at your desk I will consider you to be a wise person. Indeed. So thank you Glenn Kirshner, what’s Colin Powell saying he’s talking about work life balance. He doesn’t want folks in the office late all the more so holidays are coming up, take time, take time. I’m sure you’re gonna be with with folks right? But take time for yourself. Also take that holiday time to be with others and for yourself. Please don’t, don’t feel like I got to work that friday after. Thanksgiving how much is not going to get done if I don’t, if I don’t work that day, nobody’s gonna know two weeks later, it’s not going to matter. So please take take adequate time off. We’ve been under a lot of stress challenges For the past 18, 20 months, take time, please take time and, and nonprofit radio I’m going to do my part. No podcasts. You know, I don’t do shows between christmas and New Year’s. So plenty of time for holiday time off. Don’t even listen to podcasts. If they’re related to work at least you won’t have to listen to nonprofit radio I’m doing that much. I feel like I’m walking the walk however you do it. Please do it. Take sufficient time off around these holidays. That is Tony’s take two. We’ve got boo koo, but loads more time for strategic plan done now pay for it. When you say this, this alignment, does that mean? So if if we want 50-75% of our revenue to come from those top 30 donors, does that mean we should be spending 50 to 75% of the ceo Time on cultivating and soliciting these top 30 donors. Is that, is that the alignment you’re talking

[00:38:22.42] spk_0:
about? Somebody has to Tony. And I find that because the grant application, the event, the holiday appeal, those all have deadlines. We got to get the newsletter at the first month. Those all have deadlines. So I find that those way more than not take precedence over. You know, I really should be making, you know, doing some moves, management management on my top 30, top 50, top 100 donors. So if you’re not staffed accordingly, that time always gets pushed down. Right? Well, I’ll get to that tomorrow. I’ll get to it. And so it’s, it’s a discipline. I, you know, I always say if I, if I sold t shirts that say fundraising is discipline, it’s who is waking up in the morning and saying, what, what donors am I touching today? How am I serving them? Not in a slimy way. How are we getting? How we, how we educating them? How are we connecting them to the heart of our mission? How am I answering their questions for your men and major level donors? That is not accomplished through newsletter blasts through appeals through an annual report. They get in the mail through events.

[00:38:26.02] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s the one on 1.

[00:38:27.22] spk_0:
It’s the one on one. Yeah. And we’re avoiding that.

[00:39:06.62] spk_1:
I see that. I see that short shrift so often in planned giving because all those things you mentioned have they either have deadlines. If, if it’s, if it’s anything related to grants, uh, not only in terms of applying, but then reporting back when grants are successfully received and then, but, but everything else has a shorter, a shorter time span. You know, we gotta get the annual gifts in the fourth quarter. All right. So that we got, we got to get these, the major giving has to be, we gotta get these major gift conversations done. Everything is a is a quicker, a quicker, more, more imminent, more urgent need or deadline than planned giving you always get short

[00:39:14.59] spk_0:
shrift here. That to

[00:39:46.32] spk_1:
analogous to what you’re saying about having these donors, the strategic donor conversations. It’s easy to put them off because they’re not deadline oriented. Oh, I got, I got, you know, if you, if you want to be, if you wanna be a little cynical about it, I’ve got the excuse of this grant, this, this grant report to do by thursday. Well, alright, today’s monday. There’s my next four days putting that report together and then next, next Tuesday I’ve got, uh, an event. So we got to do the last minute planning for that Tuesday event, you know, and it’s that constant, you call it the spin cycle. I’m using your own,

[00:39:48.82] spk_0:
you can use it, take it

[00:40:05.91] spk_1:
around that constant spin cycle. It was like, uh, deadline oriented activities and you’re not doing the strategic longer term. But that’s where you want 53 quarters of percent after three quarters of a percent of, uh, half to three quarters of your revenue to come from.

[00:42:31.20] spk_0:
Yeah. And that, that totally, and that’s the stuff that takes time. It takes way longer than I wanted to. I’m the first to admit that. But when we’re looking out and going, why don’t I ever have the money? Well, we did it, we did another three year strategic plan. We’ll see if we have the money for this one too, that you have to make that fundamental shift in your model and your, in your mindset and your approach to revenue generation. Um this, I will tell you when I was on your radio show, Gosh, time is so weird right now. I couldn’t even tell you when it was last time. Um, but uh, you know, he wasn’t a client at the time, but when my, my, you know, one of my favorite clients, Jonathan heard me on your show and contacted me and, and I remember him saying, you know, I really am concerned our donors are not giving their best gifts. Like I said that on your show and what it really came down to was, you know, he had a great team who was great at what we talked about. Like these transactional approach is that they were, you know, most of their giving was coming from events from appeals from corporate sponsorships, from event from grant proposals, but their individual giving was really stagnant and you know, we all know that’s where the unrestricted investment level gifts are going to come from. And so could he have, you know, ramped up the events and appeals I suppose he could have, but he didn’t, he fixed the underlying root cause he’s fixed the financing, he’s aligned his whole team to the money. They are their high performing revenue generators And they’ve grown by seven figures here in the last 18 months because they shifted, you know, I talked about that single source decision maker. They shifted individuals from the, we’re having an event to actually segmenting and figuring out who do we need to sit with? Who doesn’t understand how we’re funded, Who doesn’t understand our need family foundations. Um, corporate sponsors, Oh my gosh. Uh, you know, his corporate sponsors who used to come and be $50,000 gala sponsors. He shifted those into $100,000, unrestricted gifts because he started having investment level conversations with them. He took the transaction out of it. He had the financing plan. He could, he could very clearly articulate the organization’s plan to spend money to make more money. So he’s become, yeah,

[00:42:39.20] spk_1:
we’ll see what he’s become and then,

[00:42:52.80] spk_0:
yeah, he’s become a master at these investment level conversations and you know what donors say, wow, nobody else ever talks like this to me. Thank you. I never, I never understand this.

[00:43:59.80] spk_1:
You give a terrific example of converting something transactional, a $50,000 corporate sponsorship to, uh, to a gala or something into a gift twice that that becomes unrestricted. We don’t have to put it toward the audiovisual budget at the gala. Now it’s unrestricted and it’s, and it’s double because he’s having different kinds of, he’s not having a transactional conversation with the ceo of that company anymore. Having an investment level conversation. How do we overcome the fear of having these honest conversations. It’s a lot easier to say our annual gala is coming up? You did $50,000 last year because you know, even I’ll even make it a little more ambitious. Could you do $65,000 this year? That’s a lot easier conversation to have than here’s what our plan is. Here’s what our need is over the next three years. How do you see yourself fitting in or maybe even more strategic? You know, I see you fitting in here. How do you overcome the fear of having these more, more down to earth, more honest investment level conversations that the transactional that everybody is very comfortable with?

[00:46:02.18] spk_0:
I hear you, I think it’s kind of a simple answer though. You gotta know your numbers because we’re going to think you’re going to be fearful of that conversation if you don’t know what you’re selling. Okay, right? Like you’ve got to know, you know, this is why my hands are in spreadsheets all day long and looking at what that looks like. You got to be able to sit down and tell a donor what their investment is going to do over the next few years. You’ve got to move into knowing your numbers in a greater way what that impact makes. And again, I’m not saying don’t share stories and the crisis and the problem in your model. I’m not saying don’t show that, but too often I’m seeing people avoid that and yes, I agree with you, Tony. It’s a lot easier even if I was a board member, it’s like, oh, when’s the event coming back? Because like that’s way easier for me to fill a table. I’m gonna be a little friend care. You’re letting your board off the hook. Their job is a balanced budget and helping you co pilot that to a balanced budget. And so we have to just be starting at the top of the pyramid. Starting in the mindset of, it looks different to attract those donors. And so we must be giving different presentations I guess. I’ll say we must be having different conversations. And so whatever they value, it’s very different from your $25 a month. You know, with that donor values. So you need to be serving what they value. And so that means you need to be able to fundraiser ceo board member, Sit down with them and answer the tough questions. Answing Why your program%ages, 90%. And so why you’ve invested, you know, 20% and fundraising in the last three years. Why did you do it? And so why your revenue maybe went down for a year, answer the tough questions. Be honest, be transparent. They will value you and that they will be attracted to that because I’m telling you nobody else does it.

[00:46:28.68] spk_1:
You mentioned a couple of times the benefit of having a a strategic fund or an endowment. Um, let’s let’s just shut out. I mean I, you know, I, you know how I feel about it because I do plan to giving fundraising. But let’s let’s flush out the value of that long term sort of investment fund that lets you take some risks from time to time.

[00:46:51.48] spk_0:
Yeah. So I think we’re probably talking about two things, but I think we can we can weave them together. You know, when I say reserve off the cuff, I really mean, um, you know, unrestricted cash in the bank that you have full access to,

[00:46:55.68] spk_1:
you know, operating

[00:47:18.38] spk_0:
Reserve, totally. And so I can’t, you know, I have multiple $10 million dollar organizations come to me who struggled doing payroll because there’s not enough unrestricted cash and reserve. And so I want to make sure that we are, we know it, that needs to be too. And and if you have that much, if you have, you know, a year’s worth of money in the bank, sit and tell the donor why you do own it, don’t be afraid. You know, that sort of thing, you know,

[00:47:22.42] spk_1:
be ashamed

[00:47:23.29] spk_0:
of. That’s something right.

[00:47:25.09] spk_1:
Because when the next pandemic comes, or the next economic crisis comes, or the next bad year in fundraising comes or the next whatever comes. You know, we’re prepared. And and mr mr or MS donor, you probably do the exact same thing for your business

[00:47:38.98] spk_0:
totally. You

[00:47:39.18] spk_1:
don’t have trouble making payroll for your business each week. Do

[00:47:41.80] spk_0:
you have to have just have that conversation

[00:47:44.57] spk_1:
problem here either.

[00:49:48.57] spk_0:
Yeah, totally. So, so that’s that’s part of that. Half the businessperson to businessperson conversation, you know, and if you’re afraid, if you go into that meeting and you’re afraid they’re going to bring that up, well then you bring it up, put that elephant out on the table because because I’m always listening for what, what questions are in their mind is going to keep them from giving their best gift, you know. Now on the, on the plan giving sight tony you know, you’re my go to expert on this. But you know, I reach out when I have questions and everything. Um, but what a wonderful opportunity for you to present or to offer your longtime donors your, you know, talk to your donors to be able to be making a lifelong legacy in the community, in the state, in the, you know, what, wherever people are serving. And so you’ve taught me this, you’ve taught me that when people have given gifts by will or when they have committed to that, um, that their affinity to the organization is strengthened when they see themselves as a greater stakeholder and partner with you and actually their annual fund giving increases. And so what a wonderful opportunity to show somebody that their impact can have even greater results on the mission through your organization than a plan giving scenario. And so I totally agree with you. I told you recently, you know, I’ve never had more people ask me about planned giving, which is really interesting. That’s not my expertise. That’s yours. But I think people are thinking you no longer term. But I’m also seeing the desire to be in deeper relationship with our donors. And it’s not an uncomfortable conversation when we do know our donors so intimately. And we’re in that period of a relationship where it’s very easy to bring up that topic. And so I just see all the annual fund, You’re, you’re kind of your general ops reserve and your plan giving all of those working together in such strength. Um, but you’ve got to lead the donor to the understanding on all three of those

[00:49:57.57] spk_1:
and having those investment level conversations with, Right? Uh, including with your plan giving potential donors. Right? So I didn’t mean for you to repeat back stuff that you and I have talked about.

[00:50:09.59] spk_0:
You know, I love it. But

[00:50:16.36] spk_1:
what I want you to, uh, I want to make explicit that planned giving is a part of the types of investment level conversations you want folks to have

[00:50:44.66] spk_0:
absolutely their daughters. Absolutely. I would just say like if you’re wondering like, should I be sharing that with donors? I mean, I’m not saying open up the back back into the kitchen and sort of the grease pants, but usually the answer is yes, right? Like everything is on your 9 90. Like at a minimum, you should be able to articulate the route Elements of that in a donor facing away, not, not, not by just emailing the 990, but you know, at, at a minimum, that should be those. That should be the conversations that we’re having.

[00:51:24.96] spk_1:
Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. You wanna, I hope you will share a story, share a story of uh, I guess a client story that, you know, maybe Jonathan’s or someone else’s. But you know, they, you saw the symptoms, they weren’t addressing root problems. They had a strategic plan with terrific excitement and ambition. They didn’t have the money to fund it. And then with, with some coaching, they were able to realize what, what they, what they really needed.

[00:51:47.06] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah. So I have a client who um have been working with them actually for for quite a few years and they’re on a great revenue trajectory. Um, but you know, it was kind of one of those things where they did continue to struggle to always get ahead. Um, you know, and the other kind of whammy, Uh, what would that be called double we I mean, I should say um, was that they had actually lost a large funder. Um they had lost somebody who was contributing almost 20% of their budget. And I actually actually was no fault of their own. It was kind of a weird silly deal. And it was actually an international funder.

[00:52:26.15] spk_1:
Just just let me let me make a parenthetical. That’s another reason to have that strategic or that reserve fund because donors may depart, large donors may, you may do something to upset them, they may die. They may find other interests. They, you know, so that’s yet another reason that can happen institutionally. It can also happen to individual donors. Another have that reserve fund. We talked about a few minutes

[00:55:46.44] spk_0:
ago, reserve Fund and you know, back to my little pyramid. I’ve been talking about, you know, in that top 30 you know, I don’t want those top 10 donors to be more than, you know, 25 40% of your revenue. So in their case, yikes right. That that was so, you know, yes, you can imagine for a couple of years that that stung and, and and it really came, you know, and so they came to me and we’re really struggling to make that up right in small gifts or in mid level gifts, major gifts. Uh, and I remember the lead fundraiser saying to me, um, you know, this is not like I didn’t go to school for this. I kind of, I know enough to be dangerous, but I, I kind of don’t know what, I don’t know. And so he really did feel, which a lot of people come to me feeling that we have great relationships. We have an amazing mission. Um we know our mission is worthy of being supported, but like, I think I’m leaving money on the table because I simply don’t know how to lead that donor to their best gift. And so like we’ve talked about today, you know, instead of saying, well, you know, let’s let’s make our golf outing this or let’s make our, let’s add the appeals, let’s, you know, do all the things that are important, but they’re not going to get, you know, for example, this organization on that stronger trajectory. And um, and really to the point where they are doing what they had outlined in their strategic plan. So long story short, that’s what we did. We put a realistic budget in place that they can articulate the true financial need. And it wasn’t, well, we’d love to, you know, make that money back because we still want to serve those Children in this case. Um, you know, it was like, here’s our plan to do it. Here’s how you fit into this plan. Um, and then we put their, their financing plan in place. What do they need to stop doing? What do they need to start to me? How would we truly balance back to that, that number we were hitting and how would we grow beyond that. Um, and then how do we actually start leading donors who maybe we’re giving, you know, a monthly gift or a one off gift or a, you know, very generously at a golf outing, but we knew those weren’t their best gifts. How do we start leading them through these conversations. And so the specific client I’m speaking to tray. He’s an amazing relational guy. He’s a great relationship builder. And so, but donors literally responded so immediately of, oh my gosh, we, we didn’t know you needed this. We had no idea this was the need of the organization. Um, and sure does he have solicitation tools now and you know, some prompts that really lead him through that conversation. Yeah, that’s part of it. Um, but he’s got multi six figure gifts as a result, organization is out of the red back in the black because now he doesn’t have to guess anymore. He actually knows the exact steps to fund the organization annually and then to lead those donors to give their best gift annually. So it’s a, it’s a, it’s a dual combo. Um, but I see people make the shift all the time, But it starts with investing in change and being open to it.

[00:55:56.44] spk_1:
That’s awesome. Sherry. We’re gonna leave it right there investing in change. Having these investment level conversations planning be ambitious. You know, don’t be, uh, I don’t want to wrap up. I want you to wrap up, but don’t be humble because

[00:56:02.20] spk_0:
I like, I like the ambitious that, that’s my, my motto. Let’s let’s do this.

[00:56:49.03] spk_1:
That’s where we’ll leave it right there. Thank you very much want Taylor Ceo of KWAme. Taylor LLC at Kwame Taylor dot com again, Sherry. Thanks so much for sharing. To appreciate it. My pleasure Next week. Bitcoin and the future of fundraising with the co authors of that book and Connolly and Jason shim if you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff

[00:57:06.33] spk_2:
shows, social media is by Susan Chavez. Marc Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott Stein. Thank you for that. Affirmation scotty. You’re with me next week for nonprofit radio Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95

[00:57:22.43] spk_1:
1%. Go out and be great. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Nonprofit Radio for October 4, 2013: Thriving In Today’s Economy

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

My Guest:

Joy Hunter Chaillou: Thriving In Today’s Economy

Joy Hunter Chaillou


Joy Hunter Chaillou is co-author of “Nonprofit Investment and Development Solutions.” We’ll talk about today’s economy and how to succeed in it with your investments and fundraising. And how the two are connected.



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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i do hope that you were with me last week. I had some for lymphedema if it came within my ken that you had missed the non-profit outcomes toolbox part do. Dr robert penna discussed the wave of reliance on outcomes measurement and gave concrete steps and tools so that small and midsize shops khun stay ahead of the trend toward outcomes assessment. And that was part two of our interview from an earlier show and optimize your social profiles. Amy sample ward, our social media contributor, had tips to find tune your profiles on the social networks while staying true to mission and brand. Also using your profiles to promote campaigns, and she shared her sixty seconds style stop this week thriving in today’s economy. Join hunter show you is co author of non-profit investment and development solutions. We’ll talk about today’s economy and how to succeed in it with your investment policies and fund-raising and how those two are connected roughly midway through on tony’s take two i love planned e-giving and last week i was remember reminded how much i love it. Plus i wasn’t be become the blackbaud conference just yesterday, we’ll talk about that. I’m very pleased that the book non-profit investment and development solutions brings joy hunter show you to the studio she’s right here with us. She has over eighteen years of experience in non-profits and investment management, including several years at the american heart association as a vice president of planned e-giving uh, love that she’s, now a consultant on our practice, focuses on governance fund-raising staff, training and board education, very active volunteer she’s, a founding boardmember for the association of fund-raising professionals chapter in westchester, new york, she’s on the board of girls inc westchester and the children’s support foundation she’s on the professional advisory committees for the central park conservancy, lighthouse international and the new jersey symphony orchestra. Joy hunter show you welcome to studio thanks, tony it’s great to be here oh that’s great! I’m glad it’s great it’s, wonderful to have you the sub title for your book is a guide to thriving in today’s economy how would you describe today’s economy for non-profit? Well, let’s see, i think that things have really changed. A lot since two thousand eight, you know, back in two thousand seven dollars were coming from all sides, the markets were flourishing, organizations were counting on the dollars that were promised to them. And, you know, since then we’ve seen an evolution of retraction, government retraction where government dollars were being continuously promised, even through some of the trying times of two thousand eight, two thousand nine and then we saw government dollars being promised, but not coming, you know? So it was taking three, six, nine, twelve months for dollars to come, and then there were decisions made on the government side where dollars just disappeared. So, you know, organizations counting on two million dollar grant from the government were not receiving it and had to figure out how to fill gaps. So that was, you know, one side of things on the private side with the individuals, you know, individuals had felt wealthy, so they were giving mohr without thinking through strategy on dh what we’ve seen again on the private side with individuals is that retraction, the sense of not just, hey, i’m going to give to all of these organizations because they’re asking, but now there’s more strategy around, they’re asking they’re giving there’s more budget planning around, they’re giving on dh, so basically we’ve seen the same. The same thing with foundations is that their strategy and there’s focus on budget, and they’re looking for more from the non-profits now than ever is terms of why should i be giving you these dollars and so non-profits are having to go through and focus on what are the strategies that i need to use in order to attract the dollars that are out there and connect with the donors who could be the best partners for us and helping us reach our mission. So there was this contraction from government and other institutional sources and also from individuals and at the same time, greater demand for services across big parts of the sector. Oh, yes, absolutely, i mean, we’ve seen it in multiple reports over and over, we see that the demand for services on the rise and that it’s very difficult for organizations toe actually fulfill that demand with the issues of the retraction of funding coming in. What do you think it’ll take for ah, for there to be a change in the individual mind set can can we go back to two thousand seven on the individual side or you really think those days are you are not going to be seen again? I think those days are probably over. I think that individuals now have a sense of responsibility around they’re giving and on the fact that they’re thinking strategically about they’re giving is actually my opinion. It’s an outcome that’s very positive from all of this, i think that it gives non-profits an opportunity to create a greater bond and loyalty with the organization with their individuals excuse me, and by communicating what they’re doing to make a difference, like why it matters that they are in existence and that their programming is happening and this forces them to step up their game, and particularly in terms that i think a lot of what we’re seeing in terms of impact reporting. Exactly. Yes, i think that that’s exactly the outcome is the impact reporting, and i know that that’s a challenge for non-profit let’s. See, now i work with non-profits every day and i know the impact reporting. You know, it comes with an expense. It comes with the use. Of resource is, you know, capital and human resource is, and so organizations have to try and figure out, well, how am i going to do this impact, reporting that donors are demanding, but really, there are very simple waste organizations to do that, and the sense and the book really is that the boards need toe own part of that answer, like, how do we report it? What you will be focused on? The boards need to have a sense of responsibility around helping the leadership of the organization form what they’re going to create. A ce faras case for support and impact statements were going plenty time to talk about board hans abilities and other other people’s roles and responsibilities. It just occurred to me that the person who was my guest the past two weeks in the first half of the show and it would admonish me ah, before i wouldn’t admonish you, but he would admonish me for calling it outcomes reporting, i mean, for calling an impact reporting he calls it outcomes reporting impact is what you do, but outcomes is what that change creates in the world, so i will apologize. Bob bob penna doctor penna, dr penny. I’m sorry. Outcomes. Reporting. But congratulations on your book. Thank you. I might have said that. Maybe should said that earlier. When? When was it? Ah, released. I was i was at a party several months ago. Yeah, and it was released near the beginning of the year. Actually so easily. I was a late comer. You had many parties that before the one i was invited to lincoln mayor june the way didn’t do a lot of parties. I should’ve capitalized on the opportunity. Tohave parties. I think i was taking a deep breath after the book was published. It was a lot of fun. It was also a lot of time and work, so i kind of like happen. And now it’s exciting to talk about it. So you know, it was fun to have a party. And now it’s exciting to talk about your show. And so there was just a party. I was invited to the only party there was that’s. Right? Tony, i wouldn’t leave you out of any parties. Do you think this interesting occured to me? Do you think it’s it’s harder to co author a book or toe author? Solely that’s. A very interesting question. I have to say that roger was very easy to work with co author roger matt lost? Yes, and so it was fun to have his opinions and input, and i think that that was a great experience and i haven’t written a book on my own, so i don’t know what that looks like, but i do like the team partnership of writing something together or doing something together in a lot of parts of my life, so i think that i probably upto have a partner if i was going to write another book. Ok, well, that may speak to your personality to you like to be collegial and part of a team and certainly in all the volunteer work you’re doing when you’re working on committees. Interesting. Okay, um, the book is very comprehensive, and we just have the hour, but s so we focus on just a couple places there’s, different roles we were alluding to a couple minutes ago within the non-profit the they’re volunteers rolls on the board and ah, there’s requirements and responsibilities for, um, for staff as well. So why don’t we want to start with just a couple minutes before break? Um the role of the advisor, the investment consultant, and we’ll have plenty time to go into it after the break, but i just introduced us to that idea. Yeah, but generally the chapter was created because as a result of all the changes in the economy and there were a lot of investment dollars that were mismanaged, it organizations, you know, endowments were affected in a very a very big way, and there were investment advisors out there who knew how to manage money, but they didn’t understand non-profits they didn’t understand the mission backing our relation to the dollars that’s very important, teo, to connect so it’s the dollars that you’re creating revenue, but you’re creating revenue too fulfill a mission and so there’s, this sense of understanding that’s necessary, especially as economies are changing and it’s more difficult teo, to manage towards those mission related goals. Where organ where not non-profits need to be selecting advisors who have a sense of expertise around the investment management, but also an expertise and understanding of the sector what’s happening in the sector, the motivations in the sector of the use of the dollars, the importance of a spending policy investment policy statements in terms of plan giving, you know, gift annuity programs like, what are they really all about? What’s the money for so there’s a lot of nuances around the dollars that are invested for non-profits and there needs to be a certain level of expertise by the advisers that air working without its organizations that that will help them reach their goals if the expertise is not there. A lot of times, the non-profit is at a disadvantage because they’re not getting the full perspective of what they could get through the, you know, through the investment management, with all of those goals in mind. Okay, andi, we’ll talk a little about how teo, make sure you have the right investment. Seldman helped give tips for hiring the right one on and then the other rolls around the investment committee on the board and the fund-raising staff and the financial staff as well. So that’s all after we go away for a couple minutes, hang in there talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth? Seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our culture and consultant services a guaranteed to lead toe. Right, groat. For your business, call us at nine. One seven eight three, three, four, eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s, time for the truth. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society politics, business it’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about so gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s. Ivory tower, radio dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com george hunter show you is co author of non-profit investment and development solutions, and we’re talking through the book. What is thie advice you might have for a non-profit that is looking to hire an investment advisor? Um, you need to really think through what you’re looking for in terms of thie, the expertise of that individual, so the knowledge of what their their knowledge of what they’re doing in terms of their team or their practice of investment management, you know, are they are do they service fiduciaries with you? You know, what platforms are they going to invest the money on that’s all really important, but the part that, you know, i emphasized in the book that i really want organizations to be mindful of our questions, that you would ask a boardmember you know what? What connection do you have to our mission will kind of volunteering? Do you do? How involved are you in the nonprofit sector? You know, are you aware of the challenges that we have today around asset resource allocation, like finding the assets that we need to function in addition to managing the assets to goals around our spending policy and or goals around if it’s a gift annuity program, for example, around the needs for the actuarial tables, the rates that we’re paying out, you know, ask them questions specific to the investments that you have and the goal of those investments and there’s a list in in the book, there’s actually checklist in the book for you to take a look and ask those questions and, you know, we make it a guide for a reason just because we wanted to be useful and so there is a full list in there, but honestly, i think that when looking at that chapter and looking at what you’re the attributes of a financial adviser thatyou wantto that you’d want to consider, you know, some organizations are too small to have endowments, and they might say, well, we don’t have investment advisors, but, you know, every advisor that you’re working within your organization should have some connection to the sector, not just being experts at what they do, but also understand the needs and the issues around around the sector. So one example that i have, if you will, i work with an organization who spent a lot of money getting their governance documents in order, and they hired a law firm who did not work with a lot of non-profit organizations, they used up all their budget and still didn’t complete the project, and then they ended up with the document retention and destruction policy that they couldn’t implement because it was so complex that the organization couldn’t feasibly, you know, actually implement the policy. So they came back to me to talk about, you know, changing that and and that’s what you want to avoid, you know, you want to really work with a partner who understands your sector and their area as well. So that’s really the emphasis, the smaller organization that you alluded to should they have an investment adviser? I mean, suppose there annual revenue from all sources is maybe one hundred thousand dollars. Should they have an investment advisor? You know, i mean, i think it’s helpful to have an investment advisor on your board, tony, because it’s, um it’s gives you perspective around the future, and it also again it’s a helpful person. Tohave, you know, perspective that’s on you. But that’s as a volunteer as a volunteer. Now, as far as having an investment advisor i’d say that probably is not the case at that point because you probably need that money to be in cash, but there’s plenty of banks that you can partner with that understand the non-profit sector, you know, you have a community resource is in banking and investment management that understand the sector, and you even do have some investment advisors that will be willing to work with smaller organizations, you know, for not a big fee and the whole the cash account, and they’ll give you some guidance around maybe cash management and help communicate with your accountant at that time of year as well. So, you know, i’m not saying go out there and find yourself an investment adviser. You don’t necessarily need to do that but definitely find a partner, even a bank partner or an investment partner, you know, involuntary capacity or in a day to day capacity that understands your sector needs ok, like the idea of ah, volunteer for the smaller organizations now, do you have? Ah, ah guide, you know, at what asset level? Or maybe what annual income level do you think a professional advisor could could be useful and affordable? You know, the book primarily focuses on organizations that have endowments, right? So you have a certain level there where you’re talking about organisations that probably have at least a million dollars to manage, you know, five hundred thousand a million dollars, however there’s, not a set level, you know, i work with one organization that has had outsourced accounting for, you know, a number of years and all of a sudden this organization that’s been around for five years that has a less than five hundred thousand dollars budget has issues with restricted dollars in some accounting principles that they’ve never had to deal with before, and what they’re realizing is that they don’t have the expertise on the board or in this outsourced accounting resource to provide them with the support they need to get to the next level and to do this more sophisticated accounting. So when was the time going to be right? Well, the time’s right now, because there’s restricted dollars coming in the door. So when would the tide me right to have an investment advisor? You know, maybe you start getting more sophisticated stock gifts, and you need to have an advisor who can help you create, you know, have input on your gift acceptance policy, perhaps, or help you create an investment policy statement. You know, it’s not going to be a sophisticated as having an endowment. And you need all those resource is but i think again, it kind of just the emphasis on having a volunteer who can interact with you on dh has the expertise as a financial advisor is very helpful on every board because any organization, no matter what size, could receive a sizable stock gift or an interesting stock gift. You know, that’s, maybe different too. Not just the typical, but maybe a typical that you need an expert to help you figure out the value. And tio bilich would date it even sometimes stock it’s just older people holding paper certificates. Those air, you know, everybody doesn’t know howto negotiate those this person’s got got a certificate it’s beautiful. You know, it could be framed. Although it’s it’s it’s not a work of art. It’s it’s got value. Um monetary. You no cash value. You know what do what do i do with this piece of paper? That is a thousand shares of ibm from thirty five years ago. You know, i just, um example that i’ve run into sometimes with plan to give it. And i’m sure you do, too. All right, this investment adviser, financial advisor here, she has to be held to standards, right? And they were going to develop benchmarks for them, too. Work against? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, i think, you know, just any anybody work with, you want to create that you’re heavier that that for your development officer, for your executive director, you know, for your board and for anyone that you hyre to work with you, you want to have some some standards, you know? And i think again, ah, they think the checklist in the book is helpful whether you’re small organization or large organization to take a look and ask the questions to those individuals of how their involvement is in the sector. A ce far as you know, you want the attention that you deserve as an organization. So you need to have somebody that’s willing to meet with you three times a year. At least, you know, to talk about, well, what’s happening in this sector. How do you think the markets would affect us if you haven’t an investable assets or what opportunities do you think are out there based on what you’re seeing with your clients, for us to market to our donors, ideas about what they could gift to us. So using the perspective of, you know, maybe the markets are doing really great and there’s a lot of appreciated stocks out there, and then the financial advisors are going to have perspective on that, and you can that could tail spin into your marketing campaign. They used to reach out to your donors, so having a conversation and having someone opened having a conversation kind of a review with you a few times a year, i think that would be a benchmark. You know, when you start talking about larger endowments, you know, there’s a lot of different benchmarks, tony. I mean, there’s so many things that it gets very sophisticated, it does, and you’re looking for services and involvement. You’re looking for individuals or teams who were willing to help you with your marketing, you know, help you educate your donor’s, help you educate your staff. You’re looking for added value services. What are they going to do? To help you support your mission goals, are they going to help you train your board? You know what? How khun making contribute to your organisation as part of the team? Teo move things forward with your mission by connecting with your board members and your donors and your executive staff. So it’s more than just what are they doing to have? Ah, prudent investment management practice and of course, that measurement is all about, you know, looking at the performance based on your goals as an organization, you’re spending policy kind of the risks that you’re willing to take so that’s, you know, i think that’s but broader answer then you might have been looking for but, you know, that’s kind of to say that there’s not one or two benchmarks, it depends on the size it depends on what they’re doing for you. Yeah, a lot of factors on dh let’s talk about the volunteers that may be able to help with creating some of those benchmarks for the financial advisor the investment committee of aboard should every is there are asking a different way is there is there are a level of non-profit that doesn’t need to. Have a nen vestment committee. Well, i should everybody have one. No, everybody shouldn’t have one. I don’t think it’s a necessary committee for every every board i’m on, i’m on a few boards, as you mentioned and they’re smaller and we don’t have investment. Committee’s, we don’t have a need for that. You know, once you have an endowment or a quasi endowment or, you know, significant now twenty martignetti non-profit radio jargon jail. I’m going to let you go on endowment as that’s pretty widely recognized, however, quasi endowment gets you skirting very close to the prison bars. Eso define define quasi endowment for quick parole, so typically an organizational call it a quasi endowment if they don’t really have endowment dollars coming in, but the’s air dollars that they’re preserving to use for operational purposes or to meet program goals. But there’s, no endowment principle around it. Where there’s a spending, you know, a spending percentage that’s dedicated from this dollars. Okay, so it’s a little bit different? Because donors haven’t said you need to put this money in and use x percentage board has directed, right? It wants toe preserve this as endowment, right? They want to preserve thiss thes dollars on dh you know, what i’ve noticed is that it comes at a certain level, so, you know, when you have five million dollars sitting in the bank, you need to do something with it and you don’t want to spend it on operating expenses. You wanted to go tour program and you have a more sophisticated model towards using the dollars basically so, you know, i would say investment committee’s, so investment committee’s, if you have dollars that you’re ready to invest, so these air dollars that you let’s say you have your cash reserves and you’re comfortable is a board with your cash reserves at six months or twelve months, whatever that might be, and then all of a sudden you have more than that. Okay, so now what you going to do with those dollars that you’re willing to say we are commited tio not spending these dollars? This is not for operating expenses. We don’t need them to cover our reserves, so we’re going to invest them once you get to that, invest them, you know, mode or to that point, you need an expert to help you invest them. You don’t want to just randomly make decisions that’s when you look at we need investment policy statement, which is basically a road map that says here’s, how much risk we’re willing to take as a group for this organization, here’s, how we’re going to prudently manage these dollars going forward here are all the points, as far as you know, asset allocation so how much in stocks and bonds and cash, you know, here’s, how we’re going to diversify it? Are we going to have small, large, you know, alternative investments? That’s really, the diversification kind of jargon, if you will or terminology rather. So once you get to that point, then you want to get a group of experts in a room or dedicated volunteers who understand well, the mission of the organization and the goals as faras creating a spending policy, you know, like, how much money do we need from this pool of assets in order to fund the program that we have the objective of funding? And and also, you know, the investment, the markets, the economy, you know, typically an investment committee has a lot of investment professionals on it, and then you start interviewing investment professionals to help you to help orchestrate that group to lead them, if you will, through a process of developing a formal investment policy statement and spending policy, and what’s the relationship between the committee of volunteers and the professional that they that they end up hiring well, i mean, they’ve hired a professional, right? So you say they’re professionals, well, they would look at them is, you know, there is his or her boss, right? Like a ce faras that goes, but i think the real relationships when they’re successful is a partnership. And so, although the individuals in the room might be investment professionals and have, you know, outlooks on the market and that’s what they do in their day job and so there in the no, you know, the objective of thie investment professional who leads them is to help them diversify their thinking and to focus on the objectives of the nonprofit organization versus their personal relationships with money were their focus in their job and their firms perspective on the economy and that whole thing. So the role is to have a partnership where you allow the financial professional that you hyre to guide. You through a profit process that’s focused on the mission of the organization versus just looking at the markets, so not just looking at how did it perform, but are we reaching our goals? So if we had a goal to spend five percent of this chunk of money every year, you know you might have a plan with that financial professional that you’re goingto make seven percent a year that’s kind of the goal, you know, then don’t look for ten you know what i mean? And and so it’s really interesting because that’s, what i see a lot is when organizations have investment committees who are very sophisticated sometimes thie expectation is to outperform the market where the rial expectation when you’re working with investment professional who’s focused in the nonprofit sector, is to not outperform the market it’s to get as much as possible with this little risk is possible to meet the mission goals. I also see sometimes there are people on the investment committee who are sophisticated investors themselves, professional advisors, but they’re not acquainted with the non-profit side and all the all the features and peculiarities that you’re alluding to when you say you know you want a professional advisor who is familiar with what’s happening in the nonprofit sector, right? I know i see a lot sometimes tension because the volunteers have one perspective and the professional advisor or in bigger organizations, advisers have the other perspective that they were brought on for, but sometimes there’s conflict between the two of them. Yeah, i see disconnect there often, you know? I mean, it’s very funny because i was speaking to a board the other day and they were talking about revenue generation, and they were talking to it, like, like the organization with selling widgets, you know? And i had to explain to them, you know, we’re not selling widgets, we’re connecting with donors, and we can’t project the outcomes like you would if you were selling a product because these were people that were marketers and and sales people out in the for-profit world, you know, and and so it’s, a little bit different the same way on the investment side, one of the concepts that hope we could talk about later, perhaps, is the bryant blind risk modeling tony so that’s the model that we talk about in the book that addresses the fact that there’s going to be investment professionals and individuals with multiple perspectives on money, on an investment committee, and and that there’s, a way of helping them test them, basically, to help them understand how to think together about the non-profit versus thinking from their individual perspective, we got to go away for a couple minutes when we come back. Tony’s, take two and joy hunter show. You stays with us, and i hope that you do, too. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get me anything. E-giving cubine are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m lost him a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna hi, i’m bill mcginley, president, ceo of the association for healthcare philanthropy. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Oppcoll time for tony’s take too i’m sorry, i can’t send live listener love today, but because we’re pre recorded a couple of days, but all the regular listeners are, but you’re out there. North carolina, new york city, california, washington, oregon from time to time texas welcome live listener love if you’re out there and, of course, to everybody else. Who’s listening live and asia asia always checking in korea, japan welcome live listener love to you, china, of course, australia, we’ve been hearing from australia not realize that’s, not part of asia give me a break, but it occurs to me that we sometimes have australia listeners to so live listeners love to everybody and of course, those podcast pleasantries. Many thousands of people listening to the podcast pleasantries out to all of you listening in time shift. I love planned e-giving and i was reminded of this just late last week when i delivered a pretty short, like twenty minute program to a group of seniors at a parish at a church on long island, and they were just such a delightful group, you know, i don’t think there was anybody under sixty five and certainly the vast. Majority were over seventy. All retired, i’d say. And they were just a delight to be with, you know, they even though they’re all ah facing, you know, lots of doctor’s appointments and their own health issues and even deaths of friends. Um, they were still just ah, you know, sort of a relaxed and easy going group to be with. They called themselves. Yes, young, energetic seniors. That was a name of the group. Yes, whatever the you know, the there there, paris. And it was the yes group, and they were just a joy to be around. And it just reminded me how much i love planned e-giving. And if there’s one thing i miss about being ah wage slave and an employee as a director of planned e-giving it’s it’s. More of that face-to-face donor contacts. You do some as a consultant, but not as much. And it was just a lovely morning, and i was only there for about an hour, like i said, twenty minute program, but was a real pleasure, teo, to be with the young, energetic seniors. Earlier this week, i was at bebe con the blackbaud conference outside washington d c and i got tons of interviews, did eleven interviews for future shows on things like dr seuss and digital storytelling and board fund-raising fraud, protection, very interesting conversation and fraud protection, protecting your checks and the paper that your checks are printed on very interesting, creating a sustained e-giving program moving more donors into your thousand dollars e-giving society on and lots of others, and they’ll be, as i said on future shows, and i thank everybody at blackbaud and the b beak unconference or about twenty, three hundred people. There was great to be on the on the, uh, the expo hall stage doing these interviews all day earlier this week, it was it was monday and that is tony’s take two for friday, fourth of october thirty ninth show of the year. Joy is still here in the studio. That’s good. I’m glad you didn’t run out let’s talk about another role just for a few minutes because we we do want to spend time on our strategic development plan two over on the fund-raising side, but another roll involved in all this the the fund-raising staff what’s their what’s, their role with respect to the investment advisor the investment committee. How are these all supposed to be integrated? Wouldn’t it be great if they were all integrated? That’s, the that’s, the that’s, the nirvana we’re shooting for. How do we how do we start to get their will? You know it’s so interesting, tony. Because i the whole premise of the book, was to bridge this. These ideas, you know, they invest the importance of investment management and the importance of, you know, asset and revenue generation. You know, like, where the money is going to come from boards really good about focusing on most boards. Really good about focusing on, you know, investment management and, you know, looking at the budgets and dictating kind of like, well, here’s, how much money we need to reach strategic goals, but not necessarily as focused on, you know, what is going on with the development team? What are their needs? How are they going to reach these goals? You know, what’s happening in the in the environment as faras, you know, donor kind of the evolution of the donor, the interest of the donor, like were talking about earlier and kind of strategies and solutions around that. And, you know, one of the things that i talk about with organizations and we try to connect in the book around is the communication strategy of the fund development team. You know, through the chief development officer, director, development, you know, whoever has that key role to the board members like that relationship and the importance of the relationship. So i can’t say that i specifically see the connection to the investment committee, per se it’s more of a relationship with the board on board. And, yeah, okay, well, since you spent a lot of time talking to organizations about this relationship, what, what what should the fund-raising staff be doing itself? Tio keep the board informed and toe move them to understanding the problems around you can resource generation, and i would call it fund-raising talking about the same thing. What should the fund-raising staff be doing toe help educate the board that’s, you know that’s, my favorite thing to talk about wayne. S o basically, you know, they need teo give the board the tools first, any education, so education being they need to have a part. And i know this can be complex sometimes at the board meetings to talk about what’s actually happening in fun development, apart from here’s how much money we’ve just raised, but teo be involved in the conversation around, you know, what is the current environment look like? Because the board members sometimes there they lose perspective on this, but, you know, they’re not doing it there today, right in the fund-raising staff is absolutely and, you know, and they have responsibility, the board members around strategy and being effective community advocates, you know, being out there and helping contribute to the development efforts on and again, they lose perspective of that sometimes, and i think that the fun development team can help them to reengage and tio reconnect with the perspective around their role and responsibility the board members, that is, by giving them updates, here’s what’s happening with our donor base should just be a part of every every agenda i think this fund-raising absolutely, i mean, i absolutely think so because it’s important. To keep connection, i think that one of the disconnects i see though it is when the fund development team, even if they’re doing that let’s, say they have representation on the board there, talking about it at the board meeting, they’re having expectations around what the board members should be doing as far as going out there and helping them to generate interest in new donors and prospects and dollars, and they don’t give them the tools. And so i think it’s important for the fun development team to be part of whether it’s aboard retreat it does need to be usually a separate time, but giving the board the tools, helping them understand what a case for support iss not just the mission of the organization, but, you know, does the community know that the organization exists? You know, if the organization disappeared tomorrow, would the community notice without impact and then would they care? You know, in answering that question, why should the community care that we’re here is something that every boardmember should be able to dio i’m not so sure they’re able to do that. What about a development committee of the board should that? Be on should be in every organization, it’s just two people. Yeah, i absolutely think that that there needs to be that focus. And i mean, for so many reasons, if it’s to help support the efforts of the staff and educating the rest of the board members, you know, i think right boardmember talkto boardmember differently than fund-raising staff talked to board members, it’s just it’s the nature of the relationship. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, playing giving, you know, you’re always working up that’s you love playing, giving right? And my big thing with organizations that are trying to move their plan giving forward is that they even advocate on the board to love plan giving with them, you know, that is so important, and it is a peer-to-peer we would talk about peer-to-peer asks with the board and development, we don’t always talk about peer-to-peer communication and leveraging the board to help you move your goals forward. Excellent way, i think, of describing the role of the development committee on the board to be advocates for the fundraisers, the development staff who, as i said, you know, we agreed can’t talk to the other board members the way fellow board members can so advocating right for resource is understanding what’s happening in the culture in the community? Non-profit fund-raising wise, etcetera, yeah, absolutely, i think so kind of the tool kit that i talk about that case for support and all that in interaction and giving them some perspective around how to articulate, you know, why it matters that the organization exists. The second piece of it really is i’m looking at the impact statements or the impact goals, so thinking about maybe specifically by program like, what are we doing? And how is that what they have? What are the results that were having one of the outcome’s not impact, but outcomes like you’re talking about? Dr pendant pan is being channelled, okay, so the outcomes, what are our goals for outcomes? And then whatever our accomplishments around outcomes and how do we articulate that? And then finally, every boardmember should have a personal passion statement, they should know why they’re sitting in the seat they should know, you know why? Why? It matters for them to tell their story out there in the community. And so those are the three things that i think that the development team could dio in order to engage with their board and move forward there. Other mission goals. All right, let’s, talk a little about the strategic development plan, which we’ve alluded to a few times. What? What is it? Nufer so it’s, my favorite term, i’m getting out. I’m in, i’m making all your favorites. Favorite topic, favorite term. You know, we’ll have detail. We’ll go into detail just broadly. How would you, you know, like, define it so broadly? It’s ah, road map for the development team to meet their goals, to think through the target segments that they’re reaching out to to think about the initiatives that they’re using to reach out to them, to think about the timing and the responsibility around each of those like who’s going to do that so don’t put twenty things down it and initiatives if there’s only one person to dio those things, you know that i see that all the time on dh, then if there’s any dollars associated with it, so it really gives up a measurable plan, teo reaching the development goals and an important that it’s scaled appropriately a staff of one or two devoted to fund-raising can’t do what a staff of a dozen khun do you know, in terms of events and then there’s grant grant, you know, grantspace be a part of their their responsibility, but then also grow individual fund-raising and have an annual fund with its monthly sometimes weekly production goals toward the end of the year on then support a golf outing, you know? I mean, one or two people can only do so much, it sounds like you see a lot of plans that are just unreasonable. Yeah, and i also see a lot of a lot of organizations that are smaller and doing all those things that don’t have a plan, which makes me always concerned because if you have fifty million things that you’re focused on is you just went through, you know, all these different initiatives, you know, having a plan helps to put things in perspective. So for example, if you are to people and you have all of these events, you know, when you put it on paper, you can show executive leadership, you know? Okay, so here’s, what we have, this is what we’re doing. Does this look feasible to you, you know? And then it does put perspective around things, and it also it it creates accountability, tony, so that you’re not just doing things to do them because you’ve always done them, but you’re doing them and it’s in an or innocent organized way that you can say, and here’s, what we got from this so it’s worth, the energy that we’re putting toward it is a strategic development plan like this created by staff and then approved by the board or what’s the what’s the process or is it just all among staff? Well, my, what do you like to see? What i like to see is the organization create a task force to help the developed the strategic plan so that you have multiple perspectives because i think that sometimes you’re missing out on some targets, segments or the perception of the community on who you are as an organization. So some initiatives that you could use that may be outside of the box thinking to create a strategic development plan and that would include, you know, that’s a meeting that happens, you know, maybe two meetings, the task force meetings tto help the development team create the plan. And then where does it go after the task force or the test forces? Employees, the note, the task, force’s, donors, board members, community members, staff get together, maybe it’s, conducted by the development officer, and then the development officer goes back, creates a plan, comes back to the development committee, an ideal situation who looks at it, blesses it and then gets it approved by the board. Excellent. Yeah, we got to go away for a couple minutes. Joyce stays with us for another segment, and you better also. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Latto durney are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? 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Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Let’s go deeper on the strategic development plan. What what elements do you like to see in it? Well, i like to see the target segmentation be very specific, so that means that if we are going to talk about loyal donors, i like, for example, with plan giving that portion of the chart. You know, i like to see all of the areas first of all, more broadly represented, so individual corporate foundations, all of those areas represented in the plan on dh, then to break it down further looking at, you know, the types of individuals. So if we’re going to talk, for example, about playing giving, as i mentioned, i don’t want to just see loyal donors, you know, i like to break out gift annuity donors, legacy society members and then loyal donors, you know, in a with parentheses around kind of how we’re defining that so specific definitions with with corporations, for example, i like to see what types of corporations are we trying to reach out to what makes them different from one another? Because what’s, really the key, once you’ve identified your target segment, is the initiatives that you outreach to them that’s the activity right, that you’re going to dio and it has to match up with that audience that you’re trying to reach. So if you’re too general about the audience, then you can’t match up the activities. We end up with a plan that’s not feasible because so there’s the target segments, right? What else? What else are you in there? What’s. The other thing that needs to be in there is who’s responsible for the activities. So instead of just putting you know, we’re going to reach out to loyal donors with thes three mailings and do this. Thank you’s. It actually says that the staff is going to sorry. Excuse me. Well, i’ll give joy a chance to take a sip of her iced tea. Just ah, explain that they were going to the elements of a strategic development plan. What? What joy likes to see in them feel better. I’m sorry about that. Yeah, so? So when you put the roles and responsibilities in a column, you then it becomes clear what you can give to the board. Like give it back to the board to do eyes in terms of stewardship. You know what? What activities? Are going to be focused for executive leadership on what activities the staff needs to dio and that way. Sometimes when we look at it that way, when we have a small shop where there’s maybe one or two people in development, it gives them a broader team, you know, when they’re thinking through oh, yeah, well, i could delegate this to the board. They really should be engaged in writing thank you notes and that’s part of our stewardship campaign. So so that’s another element that the last element that i think is really critical is tio think through initiatives in terms of acquisition, cultivation and stewardship, and sometimes i think acquisition and cultivation end up in the same bucket because we’re constantly reconnecting with donors and trying to cultivate to the next level. Um, and but when we divide those responsibilities or those areas up, we end up with a really good plan that again, we can we can understand who should be working in that area. You know, if a development officer is a one man shop, they need to be out there connecting and getting new dollars in the door, you know? But the stewardship has to happen so who’s going to be doing that, and again, it it creates clarity. Um, the last element is really that budget line on that column and that’s an important column, because if you’ve identified that something is a critical initiative, you wanna have dollars associated with that initiative to go back to the board and say, look, this is really important for acquisition strategy. We’re going to need a thousand dollars to do this mailing or two thousand dollars, so you need to really identify who you could tell them who you’re going to go after. Who’s the target what’s the initiative who’s going to be responsible, how much it’s gonna cost. And then you can have another column for well, what happened after we did that, which is my favorite, which is measuring results because without knowing what the effect is that something you really shouldn’t be doing it again? You know this also, the plan serves as a very good, i think reminder for boards as to what their responsibilities are, because you, as you said, you want to see who’s responsible for each activity. This is a very good way. Maybe of educating the board. As to where they fit in in the overall fund-raising plan? Yeah, and the reason i talk so much about strategic development plans is because organizations typically spend a lot of time and boards in a lot of time on the organizational strategy. So we’re you know, we’re doing a strategic plan were strategic planning. We have a vision spent all this money on a consultant, and here we go and here’s our big plan and this’s the budget. Now go get the money, and there really needs to be a strategy around getting the money, and it should be formalized just like the vision of the organization is and that’s kind of the whole point of bringing it up. Ok, is our development plans something we we look back to a couple times a year to see benchmark against our you know, of course, the outcomes, the results are important. We’re looking back at this from time to time. Absolutely. I mentioned the development committee should be in place for any size organization, and they should be reviewing this on a monthly basis with the development officer to make sure that they’re doing what they can to support that. Individual reaching the goals and to help the the organization move toward their mission achieving their mission, that is, and it should be an active document. Tony so it’s not a strategic plan that sits in a drawer. Basically it’s a development plan. That’s it’s, actionable items. And you should be checking in with it, you know, on a monthly basis to make sure you’re doing all the things you set out to dio. And if you can’t, then it needs to change. So it’s not like it’s set in stone. It really can change. But then you better think about how the revenue from that activity that you were counting on how it’s going to be generated if it’s not going to be generated through that particular segment. Yeah, i hate to see the development plans or any plan strategic plan more, more globally. That is done. And then it’s, like checked off. Okay, put it in the three ring binder. Put it on the shelf. Ok, we’ve done that let’s move on to something else and then never revisited. We have just a couple minutes left and i want to ask you what it is that you love. About the work that you do. Volunteer work. What do i love? What do i not love about what i do? I mean, every day i wake up and i have a giant smile because i get to smile a lot and i’m sorry for interrupting you love moment, but you’re smiling all the time. It’s. Remarkable. Thank you. Yeah. No, i mean it’s. Amazing. I get to touch so many organizations and i feel like, you know, everybody’s mish, i get very passionate about a lot of missions. You know, i have to be very careful because i get engaged and i want to help everyone. I think that that sense of being able to help to move missions forward just a little bit further every day is just very fulfilling. Its really a wonderful, wonderful opportunity i have in my life join hunter show you she’s, co author of non-profit investment and development solutions published by wile e. You can find her at her email. She offers j h sh o u c h a l l o u at yahoo dot com. If we were if we were in french, i would not have had to spell. I mean, if we were in france, i would not have had to spell your name, but i did for thanks so much for being guest house. My pleasure. Thank you for having me my pleasure. And thanks for coming in the studio. I like that a lot. Next week, it’s going to be an archive show, but i don’t know which one. I promise you. I will. I will pick a winner. They’re all winners, but i’ll pick ah first, you know ah, best in show winner if you like this show, then you’ll want to catch my podcast that i do for the chronicle of philanthropy, which is devoted to fund-raising only it’s fund-raising fundamentals. It’s a monthly each episode is ten minutes. You get short bursts of fund-raising brilliance and there’s a new one out this week on crowdfunding, and that is on the cardinal of philanthropy website, and you’ll also find fund-raising fundamentals on itunes. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz, our line producer shows social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point oh, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules our music is by scott stein. Oh, i hope you’ll be with me next week. Friday, one to two p, m eastern. Talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Get him. Cubine are you a female entrepreneur ready to break through? Join us at sexy body, sassy soul, where women are empowered to ask one received what they truly want in love, life and business. Tune in thursday, said noon eastern time to learn timpson juicy secrets from inspiring women and men who, there to define their success, get inspired, stay motivated and to find your version of giant success with sexy body sake. Sold every thursday ad. Men in new york times on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? 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