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Nonprofit Radio for December 4, 2015: Ask When Not Asking & What Are The Wealthy Thinking?

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Marci Brenholz: Ask When Not Asking

Marcy Brenholz at Fundraising Day 2014

Strong, real donor-centered programs will save you money because you’ll hold onto existing donors rather than having to find new ones. Marci Brenholz knows how. She is director of development at the Ralph Lauren Center for Cancer Care and Prevention. (Originally aired November 21, 2014 and recorded at Fundraising Day 2014 in NYC.)

 

 

Stacy Palmer & Glen MacDonald: What Are The Wealthy Thinking?

Glen Macdonald & Stacy Palmer at Fundraising Day 2014
Glen MacDonald and Stacy Palmer at Fundraising Day 2014.

Stacy Palmer & Glen MacDonald dish on the changing landscape of philanthropy: what giving habits persist and what new trends are developing. Stacy is editor of The Chronicle of Philanthropy and Glen is president of Wealth & Giving Forum. (Also from November 21, 2014 and recorded at Fundraising Day 2014.)


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s, our first show of the last month of the year happy december, we have a listener of the week it’s tracy kramer she is vice president of development at habitat for humanity new york city, she writes on linked in to lawrence paige no ni i just heard your interview with tony martignetti i wanted to tell you i am rushing out to buy your book everything resonated can’t wait to read it. Tracy kramer, don’t waste money buying great guests books. Just listen to the show if you listen to non-profit radio. That was an hour with lawrence paige, no knee. You got everything you needed. I’m sorry. You’re spending your money on the book. It’s. Just it’s. Just not necessary. Tracy kramer. Listener of the week. I love it. I love that it all resonated with you. Lawrence pack. Tony was an outstanding guest. Cool. Congratulations, tracy. Oh, you know, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of neuro core oid itis if i saw that you missed today’s show. Ask when not asking strong riel donor-centric programs save you money because you’ll hold onto existing donors rather than having to find new ones. Marcy brenholz knows how she is director of development at the ralph lauren center for cancer care and prevention, and that originally aired november twenty first, twenty fourteen, and it was recorded at fund-raising day twenty fourteen in new york city. And what are the wealthy thinking? Stacy palmer and glenn mcdonald dish on the changing landscape of philanthropy? What giving habits persist and what new trains are developing? Stacy is editor of the chronicle of philanthropy, and glenn is president of wealth and giving forum that’s, also from november twenty one last year and recorded it fund-raising day last year on tony’s take two thank you. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com here is ask when not asking with marcy brenholz welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen, we’re at the marriott marquis hotel in times square, new york city with me now is marcy brenholz her seminar topic is howto ask when you aren’t asking. Morsi is director of development for the ralph lauren center for cancer care and prevention. Marcy brenholz welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Good to be here. Thank you. What a pleasure to have you how, teo latto ask when you aren’t asking what are what are non-profits not quite getting right about stewardship. Well, i think you know, in this day and age, we have a lot of focus on acquisition and acquisition is really expensive, so there’s direct costs like buying lists if you’re doing direct mail there’s also staff costs for prospect research and things like that it’s a lot less expensive toe hold onto the donors you already have, but not the easiest thing to do. So in the seminar, i’m going to kind of break it down into two things that you can do. What is getting your house in order at your organization? So meaning your acknowledgement processes streamlined, you have a great way of recognizing staff might redo your cash reports, some kind of really boring things like that make an assessment of what kind of stewardship each department is doing. If you’re a bigger organization on dh, then the more fun. Part of it is to think about what you have to offer to your donor’s that’s really special. Do you have access to celebrities? And that doesn’t necessarily mean, you know, beyonce and jay z, it could be an expert in the field where you work. It could be a great event that you do. You could add on opening session for special donors there could be travel any number of things that you can do to make donors really feel like they’re part of your work. All right, so why don’t we start with the the more dry but still important? Yeah, right? You’ve got to get yourself in order before you could go outside. Yeah, we have a good amount of time together. So that’s, where should we start with assessing? I mean, how do we figure out where we’re what do we need to look at? You figure out where we are and then we’ll look at where we gotta go? Yeah, well, i think it depends on the size of your organization. So the case study that i’m going to use is from the u s fund for unicef, where i worked for about three and a half years it’s, a bigger organization, a bigger staff. So what we did is we put together a working group. I mean, people hear the word words working group and just generally roll their eyes, but sometimes they can be effective. We made sure we had representation from all of our departments. And during the first meeting, we just talked about what we thought would be challenging for donors. Attention. So at a place like the us fund, for instance, we acquired a lot of donors to emergencies, the indian ocean tsunami, the haiti earthquake, et cetera. And then we really struggled to have plans about holding on to those donors. Okay, so we talked a lot about whether we were being donor-centric as an organization. So on a two inch of you, you’re my second of you so far from the first one was all about donor-centric zm he was ceo of food for the poor in florida on concerned about donor-centric sametz well, but trying to make it true not just not just a flash phrase that doesn’t really have a meaning behind it. Yeah, it’s kind of a buzz word, but you know the way i think about being donor-centric and if it’s not kind of resonating for you, every fundraiser kind of has low moments, you know why i did it? Why did i become a fundraiser? Why am i doing this on dh for me going back to being and it can make you feel better in a way if you think about why donors are given to you and how much of their time and personal resource is there devoting because they believe in your cause, it makes you want to be donor-centric it makes you want to be a good friend in a way, you know, if you have a friend who’s, incredibly supportive and thoughtful, who remembers your birthday always asks you about important things in your life, you know who shows up at your party with a great hostess gift every time, and then you do nothing in return, you’re not being a good friend, so that’s like being donor-centric if the donor is so generous to you, but you’re not respectful of his or her wishes, you know, you’re just not doing the right thing, there’s such a thing is doing the right thing so well, where should we? Look, specifically to determine whether we are doing the right thing well, our marketing communications our, which includes the website print and, you know, let’s, let’s, drill down to some some of the things we should be looking at. Specifically, i think probably where to start is financial accountability that’s also kind of a buzz word these days, i think, but making sure that you’re letting your daughter so and this is the drier stuff again, this is the getting your house in order, making sure that your donor’s know where their money is going and making sure that you’re respecting where they told you they wanted it to go. You know, there’s some great donors who say here’s, some money, i don’t care what you do, it could be operating costs, it can be salaries, and then there are other donors who say, no, i really wanted to go to the specific program, and we have to make sure that we’re being a accountable to the donors on and i liked your work too respectful, yeah, respectful of what their wishes when when they do don’t make a designation right back to the friendship example, you know, it’s just what’s the right thing in the friendship in the exchange you mentioned website it’s a great point. You know, there are all of these charity rating organizations now, including charney navigator, who look at two things they look at your your finances so they’ll read through your audited financial statements in your nine nineties. They also want to see certain things posted on your website, and that includes your audits and your nine nineties on dure leadership staff. And you have to really be telling donors how you run your organization and not be afraid of letting them in. I think we’re often afraid that donors will find something out about us that they don’t like and that’s what marketing communications has forts it’s for telling the story, but you really do have to be pretty open with your donors. I think in the more sophisticated days where we live, so making sure that that stuff is up on your website is great for ratings on charity navigator, but again, it’s just the right thing to do. Also interesting parallel about not not fearing letting donors in. I think of a parallel with social media. Know what everybody’s got? A facebook page now, but the early fear was, what if donors post comments that we don’t like right? And there haven’t been many instances of that, and when it does happen, it’s an open communication and if it’s, of course, if it’s blatant and doesn’t belong, there could always be eliminated. Deleted but but that’s that’s, the that’s, the that’s, the rare rare exception yeah, no it’s it’s a conversation, right? It’s it’s a dialogue, and so we shouldn’t fear the openness. And now facebook pages are rampant but seven hundred whatever five or seven years ago, probably steven’s many, seven, five, four, five years ago, the fear was when we can’t let donors post on our what are our new facebook page? They might say things we don’t like, right? Yeah, reputational risk is obviously huge, and the problem with the google accessible world right, is that you confined if there was a faux pas non-profits passed it’s just like any person going to be on the internet, so if some risk to your effort reputation occurs, it lasts forever, so it makes a lot of sense that we’re apprehensive, but i think you’re making a great point if someone comes out whether it’s on your facebook page or if they send you a private message and says, i’m really worried about some aspect of your business practices. I’m really worried about your program design it’s a great opportunity to be able to say, you know what? This is how we really do it. Let’s, let’s have a conversation. So yeah, i mean, it’s a lot to manage its a lot more to manage than we’ve ever had, but i agree it’s a good opportunity to be out there and that person who’s saying that to you cares about you? Yeah, if they didn’t care, they were just written you off and said they’re screwing it up, you know? I’m not gonna bother, but they do care enough to to learn and maybe and they’re even trying to help, yeah, and just to bring it back to donor intention to kind of tar tar topic, if someone cares and they have a concern and you address it, you probably have that person for life, right? I mean, you, if you’re honest, if you’re open, if you’re thoughtful about how you’re telling your story, you’re going to be able to hang onto two donors and it’s better in the long run for your business? What else should we be doing in internal e-giving getting our own house in order? Welchlin look, so i think once you’re kind of clear they are out there that you’re financially accountable, then a lot of what i encountered when i was looking at stewardship again, i’m using the us fundez and fundez an example, but there’s this’s applicability other places, too, is how motivated staff were to retain donors, so sometimes that way organisations put together their cash report or the way that they recognize fundraisers might recognize acquisition more than it recognizes retention. So just making sure that you’re you’re making sure that it’s really a priority for your staff and they’re being recognized and evaluated on the right, the right kind of metrics, right attention as well as acquisition? Yeah, exactly an internally a lot of organizations have started to measure their retention, but they don’t necessarily measure upgrades or donorsearch atis faction and i’m just going to name check here because this is that not something that i thought of this is actually from karen osborne of the osborne group and these are her recommendations specifically to measure retention upgrades and donorsearch atis faction as a wayto make sure that you have a healthy stewardship for donor relations program going on, so some organizations are not even measuring retention necessarily. So that’s a great place to start, but measuring how often you’re moving, the donors up the pipeline that’s also really helpful, and then whether or not donors think that your mission is crucial whether they feel that you’re one of their top five organizations, how committed are they to you that reflects on how you’re communicating with them? How do you how do you judge these things? Well, if you have a donor database again, i’m talking about a little bit of a bigger organization. You can actually run reports on these kinds of things you can set them up in, and i’m sorry. That’s what i meant donors feel that your mission is critical. Are you one of their top five charities? That’s got it all be done by survey conversation. Yeah. So if you want to do, you can do a doner satisfaction survey with smaller donors. You can do it online, but you can also sit down. When you’re talking about major donors are board members, you can do individual interviews with them where you’re really not asking them. So why i called the session howto ask when you’re not asking, i hope everyone doesn’t show up and think, oh, good, i don’t have to solicit anymore marcie’s going to tell me how it’s more, what are the moves that you’re doing in between? The asks that are making the donor feel really good and really invested in you? So sitting down and talking to them about what they think about the organization without asking them to write a check is could be a good move, you know that old saying if you want to ask for money, ask for advice, it’s like that? Yeah, so you would do it face to face or you could do, you know, an online survey or something like that and agree maybe to do it every two or three years, you know what i’m talking about really takes a lot of resource is and not every small organization, so now i’m a one person shop at my new job on dh this kind of thing is probably going to be a little bit more challenging than it was when i had more research. Resource is at a bigger place. So there’s that, too. But you’re going, you’re going to find a way. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Oppcoll now, so one person fund-raising shop, you are talking to donors a lot. Yeah, so some of these questions could weave their way into your daily conversations with donors. Maybe not everyone, right? But you can sample, right? Yeah. And one of the things that i’m doing so there was ah, one year gap between development directors at the ralph lauren center. So some of the things that i’m doing there are sort of resurrecting some relationships that we had before. And i’m making sure that there’s no stone unturned if you’ve given money to us before, if you cared about us before, i’m going to try to bring you back. You can’t be successful all the time. You’re gonna lose some donors. People’s circumstances change. It might have nothing to do with your organization. But it’s really important to make sure that you’re being very methodical about renewing let’s let’s, switch to the more fun the donor side of good donorsearch worship. Yeah, so i had a great experience again at the u s fund for unicef. Where i put together are a major donor e-giving society now abel he managed by another colleague at the us fund-raising donors. We decided to talk to our board members about what they might like to see, so when you structure a major donor e-giving society, you’re basically putting together a list of tiered benefits and that’s also an important part of putting your house in order. What are you offering to donors? A different levels is a consistent who are the donors that your leadership and board members need to be involved with? And do you have plans for howto steward those donors? So with us one farina’s have is lucky they have a lot of board members, so they have a national board and then seven regional board. So some people may say that’s very unlucky, that’s true. Thankfully, it was thankfully was fortunate for the for the us fund. These board members are great. I’m a board relations person, so right, i think that’s great and some people think it’s a nightmare. Now i have an eight person board, so i’ve, you know, i’ve gone on, but they have about probably about one hundred twenty five port members between all those groups, and we did some surveying of them and i’m not saying that these air the answers you would get from every a group of board members, but this is the kind of thing that, like on your terrible worst day, you just think about it and feel good. These board members were like, i don’t care about recognition that’s fine, i just want to be more connected to the mission. I just want to talk, teo, the workers in the field and really understand what you do. They were looking for these really meaning for awful engagement opportunities. It wasn’t like, oh, yeah, i’d like a tote bag or i’d really like to meet beyonce when i’m named checking her. Maybe she’ll call me, uh, you know, they really wanted more programmatic depth, and they also wanted to network and connect with each other. So we tried to build benefits that felt a little bit less transactional and more in-kind of life affirming. Like what? What? What were a couple of examples? Well, you know, again, this is not something that everyone can offer, but travel to the field is an example at a certain ok, but a small organization, maybe maybe it’s not travel to on exotic country, but maybe welcome to the to our office. Yeah, to the place where we’re serving people that you’ve never seen, you know, we internally take it for granted because it’s on the floor below us who’s down the hall, but our donors have never seen it however modest you may think it is. It might mean the world to the donor. Yeah, to be invited. Absolutely, i mean, at the ralph lauren center. So i work on site at the cancer center it’s in harlem on one hundred twenty fourth and madison. I’ll be honest, a lot of donors don’t go up to that neighborhood very often because of the involvement of ralph lauren. The center is really beautiful looking, and i love walking in there every day and seeing the patients in the in the waiting room, not it’s, a very unhappy time for the patients, but i feel really connected to them into the mission, and we do a lot of site visits at the ralph lauren center. Before unicef, i worked at a education non-profit called learning leaders, and we did school volunteerism, so we used to do a lot of site visits to schools, and that was great. And whenever i was feeling kind of disconnected elearning leaders. I would get up and go to a school and be like, okay, this is why i’m doing this, so yeah, the travel with units of the will sexier, right? But every charity has got someplace that you can come. Yes, absolutely. Or some meeting that you can come to that you haven’t previously been invited too. Yeah, something is going on at your charity. I just went teo, a special events training session at robin hood. So the ralph lauren center is a robin, but grantee on the special event staff was sharing that their donors love to come to their office and just see where the work is done. So just just the administrative, like, ministerial type officers. Yeah. I mean, the stuff that people who work there take for granted every day has no interest. I mean, it has interested them, but it would never think of inviting an outsider. But you got it. We got stop thinking like that. They’re not outsiders, they’re insiders, and we want to welcome them. Welcome to the workplace. Yeah, you do it one day a month. Who have a bunch of invite a bunch of people. And have a breakfast and maybe you know that that half a day a month becomes more donor-centric yeah, then the other nineteen and a half workdays that you have in the bunk. Yeah, absolutely. And i think that’s why i found the responses from the board members of the u s funds so encouraging, they were saying exactly what you’re saying. We want to know how you do your work. We want to really drill down with you. We’re not necessarily looking for a lots of glitzy stuff we want we want the day to day, and it kind of relates financial accountability. Also, fixing your marks were full of table, right? I’m i’m getting violent with my mike. I’m better that way. Yeah, although we’re close enough, you could, but i appreciate that i appreciate your not breaking down that you haven’t done anything. Yeah, it’s been it’s been ok? Not feeling well. I’m mind myself across the line either of this relates back to financial accountability again, if we’re afraid to let donors in, then they’re not going to come closer to us and we want them to be closer. That’s not every single donor, but the important ones and the ones who care. So yeah, that’s. The interesting part that was so us fun for unicef. It was travel abroad. Make clear that it could be traveling to your administrative office. Yes. What else? What else did you do on the outside? It could be also in individualized porting. So back to how donors want their money spent. You know, a lot of us do kind of ah, general operating support report, which is okay, but at certain levels, you really want to make sure that you’re doing an individualized report and, you know a lot, i think most of us do this, but that was included because unicef being such a big place, sometimes people were getting a more generalized report and not feeling like we were really drilling down into the program that they wanted to support. Then we did a couple of other things, like at the higher levels dinner hosted by a boardmember dinner hosted by the global unicef executive director. So that thing that i said about celebrities before a lot of people think that tony lake, who is the executive director of unicef globally, is a celebrity in the world. Of, you know, international charitable work. People really want to meet mr lake and he’s more of an academic than he is anything else but that’s really interesting to donors. So we did travel to see unicef’s work in the field, and then unicef has some other interesting international properties to visit there’s, a research center in florence there’s a supply division in copenhagen, so travel to those places also, which is again inner workings. Okay, way covered travel. Yeah, but but your phone is ringing. I think it was beyonce. I heard a phone ringing. This is more important. I mean, i’ll get to her after i agree. You’re everything in the world in your life has brought you to this moment. Exactly don’t want to surrender it to be on no side. It might have been someone else’s phone. I heard that you could actually be calling. I always keep mine on site could be calling somebody i’m sorry, it’s. All right, you’re next on the list. I’m sure i’m sure i’m sure what else? Wait put on there. So receptions before big events for having a gallery you don’t spend a lot of money to add a small reception before you’ve already got the space, the caterer is already coming. Yeah, marginal cost buy-in before or after reception every great, especially when you’re putting on a bigger event on that gets to the donors wanting to network with each other and to know each other, they don’t always get to be in the same place either. And, you know, a boardmember meeting or another kind of meeting isn’t always the best place to network. So something like that, which is probably a lot a lot of my my work is planned e-giving consulting way. Do a lot of those vips receptions before the larger event? Right? Another thing that doesn’t cost much is v i p seating at an event. Yeah, because nothing because the a couple of strips of masking tape yeah, mask often area and and have vips seating for an event you’ve already paid for the tickets, for you’ve already got the seats rope off ten or twelve seats for vips. People feel like the world way because the i p c yeah, and, you know, what’s funny about that. We’re already doing it right when you think about it when you’re doing your gala seating you are putting your most important people in the front, but they don’t know that we’re not revealing our methods. So if you make that a little more open and say by the way we’re going, we’re gonna give you the best seats here this important, i think, you know, we’re continuing on that theme of tell your donors what you’re doing, and it might make them feel good, so yeah, great. Ok. Ok. What else? We still have a couple minutes left. Marcie. What? What else? What else can we talk about? Well, we could talk about volunteer opportunities. Maybe i think that that is a big saying. That’s emerging volunteers helping with stewardship donors having volunteer opportunities to make you feel more engaged because i think it’s emerging as a theme because corporate supporters often are asking, well, how can my employees come for a day and do something and it’s a little bit difficult for some organizations to figure out how to do that? I had the luck. This is back tio sometimes stewardship moves are a little easier at one place or another. A little more obvious when i worked in a volunteer organisation. I got a lot of my donors and my board members through a pipeline of one particular volunteer program, which was an art program, and it just attracted the kind of volunteers who were also able to be donors. Not everybody has that. So ralph lauren center does a lot of stuff with our physical plants, having people come in and paint having people come in and plant flowers outside. You know, i just think it’s important to make sure that you have at least a couple just up your sleeve and ready to go a couple of volunteer opportunities in case either of corporate supporter asks or, you know, a group of boardmember xero group of donors say, i don’t really feel like writing another check. What can i do so that’s? You know, i think that’s big and a lot of donors also want to do things that involve their children and family. Family philanthropy is such a big emerging topic. So if you can think of a program or a volunteer opportunity where people can bring their children that’s also huge. We have just a couple minutes left. What about the board’s role in the stewardship? Yeah. That’s a really good question. Okay, come up with one. Twenty. Only took me about twenty four minutes. Well, i mean, this is like a house in order. It’s you know, it’s, the more kind of the more boring stuff. So i had mentioned that bored hosted annual dinner could be an interesting big storage it move. Thank you calls. Thank you notes all those kinds of things. I hear that from a lot of guests. Just get the board together, do it for an hour before a meeting right? Dahna and they’re going to get a great feeling from it themselves. And you’re just right. Just calling to say thank you, thank you. Nothing else. Don’t do don’t do anything more you don’t i’m not asking for anything more. I’m just calling to say thank you, and and a donor has gotten a call from from a pipe and the organization it’s a boardmember it’s really big it’s big you people. A lot of people in the international world love teo support the carter center because the carter center does great work, but also jimmy carter calls you. I’ve had a bunch of donors like president carter called me. Okay, so not everybody has jimmy carter, but it’s still important to hear from, you know, a leadership voice if you much you mentioned the executive director who’s not not really thought of as a celebrity in-kind, in a way, popular media, but within the organization within that mission he’s very well known. Yeah, so it could just be somebody in your office. Exactly. And also, i didn’t mention loyalty recognition. I think calling donors and thanking them for gift that they’ve just given is fantastic. Don’t take that off of your roster, but five years in a row, ten years in a row recalling their thing irrespective of the size of the raft, is that kind of loyalty? Yeah. Recognition for for the that history. Yeah. How gracious and thoughtful is that? If you just say thank you for giving to us for five consecutive years, we really appreciate it. That’s it and we didn’t care how much it was. Marcie, thank you very much. We have to leave it there. Thank you. My pleasure. Marcie brenholz. She is director of development for the ralph lauren center for cancer care and prevention. Thank you very much. More. See again. Thank you you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen what are the wealthy thinking? Is coming up first pursuing they’re perfect for our listeners, small and midsize non-profits they’re fund-raising tools are ala carte, and they’ll help you raise more money. It’s just that simple. You take the tools you need, like velocity, which is a fund-raising management tool keeps your fundraisers on task day to day and measures time against goal. Plus, it has a lot more analytics and you just take the tools that you need. They will help you raise shopping carts more money. I’m not talking about those handheld ones they hold on your arm or carry at your side. I’m talking the monster jobs and bjs that seat. Two kids comfortably have headlights and back-up cameras filled with money pursuant dot com now it’s time for tony’s take two thank you. I’m grateful for all the ways that you support non-profit radio listening, getting my weekly e mail alerts telling you who the guests are going to be tweeting, retweeting loving the show on facebook however it is you are enjoying non-profit radio i thank you and my thank you. Video is at tony martignetti dot com that’s tony’s take two for friday, it’s a simple one fourth of december forty fifth show of the year. Here are glenn mcdonald and stacy palmer welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen we are at the marriott marquis hotel in times square, new york city with me now are stacy palmer and glenn mcdonald. Their workshop topic is whatthe wealthy. What are the wealthy thinking now? It’s a question, not a statement. We’re going to answer that question. Stacy palmer is editor of the chronicle of philanthropy and glenn mcdonald is president of wealth and giving forum stacy glen welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Pleasure to have you, glenn let’s, start with you. What? What? What is this topical? About? What? What? What are the wealthy thinking now? Well, the first thing i want to say as a preface is that we like to categorize the wealthy as a homogenous group. But in fact, that’s really not fair of anybody are very diverse. I’m just like any covert group that you would mention they spend this political spectrum young and old. You know, that wealth can be minute very quickly, especially in silicon valley and and interestingly enough with on that topic, you know, it is young generation that is spurring you trans e-giving um, and the number one trend right now is thinking about their philanthropy across everything they do not just in the check, right? Meaning how they invest their portfolio and what sort of for-profit cos they invest in ones that they believed that they could be transformation on society, and i think that’s really the number one trend that i see on they are shifting the thinking of their parents and grand parents to be quite frank. And when you say the young, are we thinking of people in their thirties, you know, early, early twenties coming out of college and thinking about the business choices they make the careers, they want to be involved with the types of companies they want to work for, they want their doing good and doing well and making money to be integrated into one it’s no longer separate, and i think that’s a trend that’s here to stay, and i’m sure we’ve read, you know, in the press in the chronicle of philanthropy wall street journal that socially responsible investing and impact and interesting are considered alongside of the donations and grantmaking that foundations are making right now. Stacey, what do you have to add? Early on, i agree that’s one of the big trends, the other thing that some people are starting to talk about is whether there’s a whole third wave of philanthropy coming among the young and whether mark zuckerberg really kick that off and he’s, not even thirty yet. But by giving so much money to the silicon valley community foundation rather than setting up his own foundation, he said a model for the other ways of thinking about giving, not institution building, but really saying, i want to do this differently and others may be following his model. So i think we are seeing a pretty big shift. Yeah, glen a third wave. I agree wholeheartedly, i think even before mark zuckerberg, warren buffett said look, rather than build a new private foundation, i’m gonna give my money to bill gates. I respect him. I trust him. I like his work. I like his team he’s built. Why start over? I think you know station. I would probably agree that the proliferation of new foundations and new non-profits, when a lot of great organizations have already been and built a small and large and everything in between already available to donors and in some respects by giving to the community foundation what market burton zuckerberg is saying, staff is there, there’s, a lot of programs already in place, and we can be flexible because the community foundation structures allowed for flexibility, not only in the way they given the timing e-giving, but also in the number of programs that are available. Now. Those watching a video will note that the room got darker, durney martignetti non-profit radio is continuing. The overhead lights are flickering, a little bit of that coming on off, but it makes no difference. We persevere here non-profit radio, absolute. Nothing stops us earthquakes, bring them on. We will continue. We are not leaving this set until until we flush this out. Let’s see, let’s, talk a little more stacy about this this third wave, what else? What else characterizes this? You know, i think in addition to things like impact investing, we also see growing interest in merging political giving and philanthropic e-giving and thinking about the various ways that you can use your money to influence change and of course, as came pain finance limits are basically going away. It’s easier for the wealthy to think about doing that when you think about the scale of their political giving compared to philanthropy, it’s so much smaller anyway, but they’re definitely looking at both ways to do things. I think that’s got good sides and bad sides. The good side is that they’re getting engaged to the bad side is people are starting to worry about whether the plutocrats are setting policy and are starting to hear more about that. I think that could kick back on philanthropy in some pretty serious way, so we have to talk about, you know, sort of are people going to be accused of trying to sway public policy through their philanthropy and the wealthy, setting the setting, the agenda, setting the research research priorities? Indeed, but the flip side of that, of course, is that we all know that you can’t create change unless you change some systems we’ve everybody influence if he’s been talking about about that for so long, so in some ways you would think that they might be applauding the two billion years for finally getting more engaged in public policy. But yet we don’t see that going to see you nodding a lot. Yes, absolutely agree, and i think that, you know, in some respects, there is some advocacy and political influence of the wealthy that are looking to take care of themselves by not having more taxes or limiting wreck regulations on businesses, and i think they’re the coke brothers are a big example, and tom style on the other side of the fence would say, well, yes, but i’m advocating on behalf of those who don’t have but you know that the challenge there is that while i think tom’s tires is well intentioned, that sometimes the billionaire’s advocating on behalf of those that are less fortunate don’t really see the issues at the depth that the underbelly really does and that they should be advocating for themselves, and the only way to do that is, you know, frankly, this is getting bleeding out of philanthropy and into a political commentary is through true democracy. And so i think there is an issue and stacy’s spot on and saying, you know, by philanthropy and the ability to raise dot org’s toe, advocate and influence the political process, the challenges that will philanthropy get, you know, a little bit of a black spot when there’s so much goodness like in this room, you go upstairs, there’s a thousand organizations that are doing are wonderful things that nobody hears about it, and you don’t want the non-profit charitable sector and philanthropy world to be a viewed as to to link tio, you know, just the wealthy influencing the way the political game happens because the real truth is so much goes on beneath that’s. Wonderful. Yeah, yeah. Stacy looked like you wanted to add. Well, and i also think part of it too is that there’s so much influenza b that doesn’t have anything to do with politics. And so that is we need to bear keep things in context. Yeah. What else? What else are you planning to? Your session is this afternoon. What else is on your minds for the for the audience? I think one of the things we’ll be talking about is the different ways to appeal today’s donors and to talk about what kinds of things draw them in it’s not enough just to say that they’re motivated by a particular cause, but what kind of language do you use, teo, get them engaged, you know, do you need to talk about financial metrics when you’re appealing to an investor? Do you need to talk about how you’re fixing things when you’re talking to an entrepreneur? I was talking to a wealth advisor the other day who said she was advising an ophthalmologist, and he looks at everything through what people aren’t seeing because that’s what he does all day, you know, and so trying to think about donors in those ways, um, and what their professional obligations are, that that might shape what it is that they want to hear about how you draw them in and get them engaged. So we’ll talk about tips for doing that so segmenting absolute across your constituencies will want to share and share some of the some of those tips let’s not hold out on listeners. Well, again, i agree with stacy. You know, you know, the real challenge is that i say that that every individual who is a donor giver investor in for-profit solutions to social issues has his or her own own formula for wanting to give. And it involves the head in the heart and summer, morehead oriented and rational thinking about. And they focus on outcomes and measurement more than thie emotional joy of that comes sometimes from giving and everything in between. And i think that to stacey’s point and wealth advisers have the same challenge in managing money. They have to figure out what makes the person tick. And i think the most important thing and i think everybody in this room would agree, is what’s most important is the discovery processes, the listening and then the appeal khun b couched in the framework of the individual not in some standard way of of soliciting money. Ask the listening, the list listening, whether that’s done through social media channels right at our one to one conversation with a survey. Yeah, i think that’s that’s something that i hear on. The show often is that we’re not active listeners. And you love listeners. I have read of nine thousand of them. I do love them, and i listened to them. But they are sometimes not listening the way they need to be less exactly to their various constituents, whether that’s vendors on one hand or donors on the other, yeah, sametz tryingto watch that. Okay. Background noise, bleeding in. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. If you have big dreams in a small budget tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio, i d’oh. I’m adam braun, founder of pencils of promise. When further thought i’d be interested in stacy’s perspective on this is i’m just getting to know her that comes to mind is, is that i’ve seen that the most committed philanthropists that really followed through on the long haul on and staying with with the, um, developing a strategy and then really staying through with an organization or an innovative non-profit leader that’s starting something new or social issues to address is is the ones who really do stay the course and have great impact and have patients for the outcomes, the right outcomes are those that have been introspective and been thought and taking a step back and not do something that’s trendy, but something that really means something to them or their families, but that takes a certain kind of investment and investors who are in for the long term and, you know, dan pill latto had a lot to say about that correct perfect example way all know that one of the things that goes wrong in philanthropy all the time is that people follow the trendy they want to start new organizations and get excited about the next new thing instead of staying for the long haul and in some ways, what we need to change the culture of philanthropy is to say, there are some of these organizations that are doing great work already if they just had more money and more support from their board members, they could do even more on and that’s not to say that you organised dilgence shouldn’t get started, but i think when people come into philanthropy, they just get excited about. I’ve got this innovative idea, please back me instead of saying, wait a minute, who’s already doing terrific work and how can i get involved in the board and that’s? One of the things that non-profits really need is committed born members who will get involved and do that kind of thing is, well, it’s not enough just to write a check there’s some sentiment that the that the passion takes over and are are you system allows people to start a non-profit as long as they could meet some some not very high threshold requirements from the irs and that we never end up with the proliferation of charities duplicating overlapping rather than the person going through an existing charity and saying, if you don’t have an opening for me on the board? Can we can i partner some other way with you exactly about this proliferation of ah non-profits means that you see that hurting us? Well, i think the stacey’s point at the beginning of this session that you know, mark zuckerberg and i added, you know, maura buffet to the mix and there’s more more that are saying, no, that isn’t the right thing, and i think they’re setting that example, um, that others are starting to take a step back and ask that question, which is a good trend, and i also think there’s some consulting firms that are starting to encourage non-profits that think about partnerships and merging and consolidating programs into one and gaining scale and leverage across that that’s starting to happen. It’s we need more of it, and some of it was by necessity and some in our great recessional, exactly the wayto nine crisis forced with lower funding and some issues that even someone doubt doubt organizations, you know, at poor performance on your operating budget suffered that that forced the issue, but it’s, it’s, it’s a trend that starting and what we need more of. It you know, no question, yeah, we have an op ed in our current issue that’s actually arguing for that and saying that, you know, really their needs be more of mergers and acquisitions business in the non-profit field thie incentives are totally different than in business, but we need to find ways to think about ways for strong organizations to work together, not just because the financial crisis caused it, but for reasons to extend the mission and to think about it that way. And sometimes, you know, we were just talking before about board members it’s often the board that gets in the way of a merger because they don’t want to give up their boardmember ship, we’ve got to find some other incentives for them because there’s plenty of roles for them to get involved. There are precious few consultants i’ve had one on sabrina lamb, i think sabrina lamb consultants doing what advising around merger, acquisition and or even just joint ventures, partnerships and not always for fund-raising purposes, but for longer term, you know, just mission, a mission achievement, there’s that that overlap is, uh, can be hurt can’t be hurting us. What other? Any other strategies around the the topics of listening i think one of the things that many fundraisers find challenging is that even if they are the ones who are doing the listening, getting the ceo, getting other people on the staff to do that, listening is much more of a culture shift on dh. So one of the messages i think well, while i talk about today, is how to engage the chief executive and other people in the organization to see that talking to what a donor cares about doesn’t mean sacrificing your ethics or, you know, getting in the way of letting the donor dictate the mission it’s just saying, how do you talk to them in a language that they understand and that appeals to them? And maybe they do actually have some good ideas about how you run your organization differently that were worth listening to, but i think you know so often that’s one of the challenges fundraisers have is they get it, but not everybody in the organization does corrected. On the flip side, you might be talking to a donor who is really it’s, a patriarchal nature, our or maybe even the son. Or daughter of a wealthy family on dh sometimes the whole family’s going to be part of the decision process. So it makes that dynamic and challenge a little bit more complicated, because sometimes family members they seemingly be on the same page, till the time comes for the check to be ripping and then there’s some some. Well, wait a minute, that’s ah, that doesn’t really have ah, is not in concert with the mission of our private foundation and one orders yes, and the other guard there’s no, and so look fundez that that’s why this is a profession i mean fund-raising is a huge challenge. You’ve gotto work the organization on the one hand and stuff, as stacy pointed out, on the other hand, sometimes the dynamics of the emotional dynamics of the one individual donor end or the family dynamics associated with that donor is makes it an interesting challenge. If we’re seriously interested in listening, then we have to be asking questions the answers to which we need to be willing to hear couldn’t and they’re often not, and they’re often not couldn’t have said it better. I mean, you know, that’s, why i mentioned the discovery process, if that’s not part of the question set, whose else involved in this decision process? I know you have a private foundation to have professionals on the part of the private foundation that are going to influence this. Do you have other family members of yours come to going to come and weigh in on the decision on dh should be leading with them and and so forth there was absolute a lot of times, you know, for smaller and maybe even midsize shops they you need often, i think, an outside adviser to help facilitate this thiss process and a lot of the smaller shops, you know, they don’t just don’t have the wherewithal to bring someone in to facilitate a conversation on the board or conversation among among donors down, you know that, and they and they’re so insular in their work that they’re not able to ask these these challenging questions. I think one of the things all non-profits no matter what size they are can seek out is professionals who want to give their time to facilitate something like that must be people would like to help in organization in various ways and you know, we don’t think about the sort of skilled volunteering enough in the ways that people can help out. So i would say, you know, an organization of any size can really reach out to people who can help in that process on dh should be creative and thinking about that rather than just asking for money because you’re right, sometimes you need more that kind of coaching and that sort of thing. Clint, i think one of the things you talked about in our call was thinking about mentors for people who so, you know, thinking about the way people in their profession want to meet other people in their profession and that that’s a good way for non-profits to think about how to find new donors and volunteers, you had a couple of a couple of things on that was, well, we believe wealth e-giving form we believe in pierre learning, so wait really existed encourage greater philanthropy, and in that regard oh, our sweet spot is emerging philanthropists, but we have other philanthropist comments tell their stories about how they developed their own form of forgiving and struggles and challenges. They asked themselves about how much to give and what’s the direction of my giving and how dowe i involve my family and how do i ensure that when i’m i’m not going to get dahna fatigue and so forth and so on? And it’s really, i think peer-to-peer learning in any field of endeavors hugely important. That’s why there’s a lot of, you know, organizations like young presidents organization for ceos and so forth and so on, but even for non-profit professionals, i mean, there’s a great couple of organizations that are just i don’t know if you’ve heard of catch a fire. Oh, sure, when stacey was talking about going to mention catch afire. Volunteermatch right, so in order to get, you know, if you need an accounting accounting or you need your having board challenges where you’re having, you know, they will find professionals who can help come in and advise non-profits on those issues and challenges, and one new one i just heard about was inspiring capital that i mean, really just organize this year to help non-profits think about in election schnoll capital and capabilities they developed that might be a source of revenue stream because they developed this expertise you know, i’ll give you one example a year up national, you know, organization that helped inner city youth find a pathway to self sustaining, you know, income and a great career, and, you know, they’re they’ve become very well known, but they’ve really developed over the past fifteen years a great capability to only train young adults in inner cities, but also to staff them properly and be on dso, you know, they have a model that’s that can compete with robert half, so they’re, you know, thinking about a revenue stream off of that that can help fund the organization, and i think more and more non-profits are gonna start doing the same thing. Stacy, we have just a minute or so left wanna leave? Ah, parting thought something we haven’t we haven’t talked about that you plan to share one of the things that is clear and giving trends overall is that the affluent are the ones that are powering givings growth in america. We just saw the giving us a report come out and were it not for the wealthy, i don’t think we would have seen the good numbers that we saw so making sure that every organization of every size reaches out to these individuals is really important, rather than focusing on things like special events and other kinds of things. I think almost every organization has the capacity to get what is for them a major gift, and there really should be thinking about that and important for them. For them, everybody doesn’t need to be going after seven, seven, eight, nine figure give exactly a ten thousand dollar gift might be a big gift for you. Go for it. Excellent. We’re gonna leave right there. Well, but i love that alright. Stacy palmer, editor of the chronicle of philanthropy, and glenn mcdonald, president of wealth and giving forum thank you both very much. Thank you for having us. Thank you, tony. My pleasure, tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen. Thank you so much for being with us next week. It’ll be a good one. Is there another kind? If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Where in the world else would you go? Responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits whatever type of work you do to improve our world pursuant dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin doll is our am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by diner russell, while susan chavez is on maternity leave and our music is by scott’s dying. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything people don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Amador is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff sort of dane toe add an email. Address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and, uh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for November 20, 2015: Get Creative & Safeguard Your Donor Data

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Lissa Piercy: Get Creative

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Thought about poets and other artists as part of your board meetings, trainings and conferences? How about open mics? Lissa Piercy reveals why you need to consider these and how to get them done. She’s executive director at Strength of Doves.

 

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into tableau paralysis. If it came to mind that you missed today’s show, get creative thought about poets and other artists as part of your board meetings, trainings and conferences. How about open mikes? Lissa piercy reveals why you need to consider these and how to get them done. She’s, executive director. At strength of doves and secure your donordigital scott koegler has tips on how to preserve and protect your donor’s sensitive information. How much do you need to save he’s, editor of non-profit technology news that originally aired on december six twenty thirteen between the guests on tony’s take two five minute planned giving marketing responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com. Dr a trip or journey in a car also an internal, biologically determined urge to attain or satisfy a need. It is after ten p m on a friday night, and i’m standing alone in a laundry room in boulder, colorado, a student in a social entrepreneurship program my whole life is waiting for me back in boston, i am watching the live stream of a national poetry slam competition. I am watching the first poet i added to our roster win a national poetry slam competition. I am fist pumping the air, i am stumping my foot! I’m screaming to an empty room. I’m remembering yesterday when i questioned why i had taken on the task go starting a business in the first place. I am crying and smiling and balancing computer and cell phone and laundry and coffee and laughing because this is what a start up looks like when i opened my computer one hour before tomorrow on a friday night and cringe at the emails that all seem urgent that all scream no sleep when the coffee wears off and the grant application start to blur when the mission feels miles away from my office when my office is really just a coffee shop or a living room or a kitchen when i stare at spreadsheets that looked like foreign language, like potential failure or future like risk risk, a situation involving exposure to danger. Also, every time i have ever followed my gut, sometimes you’ve just got to throw out the plan and follow your gut, grit, courage and resolve strength of character. Also small, loose particles of stone or sand. And some days i feel like sand small enough to slip through the cracks of this foundation i am building. In those moments, i think of the poet who risks reputation on a national stage to proclaim her love of women. The poet who tells the story of her sexual assault so that a girl in a middle school classroom can finally feel safe confessing the violation of her body. The poet who rejects gender pronouns and reminds me that this world has never been binary. The poet who run straight into vulnerability and somehow comes out stronger for her honesty. These poets so purpose into fists i wanted to raise at a world that took my father away. These poets raised their hands. Up, don’t shoot taught me to proclaim don’t shoot in my name, these poets, the heart of these poets heart, hollow, muscular organ also the center or innermost part of something. And aren’t we all just trying to find the innermost part of something thing? It took poetry and entrepreneurship for me to find the innermost parts of me. Lissa piercy she is co founder and executive director at strength of doves, an agency which is itself a non-profit the represents socially conscious, activist spoken word artists, they connect poets to venues and organizations. They’re at strength of doves dot com and lissa is at lissa poet the sapir c welcome to the show, thank you so much for having me beautiful energy. Tell us what is the story behind that? Well, i was actually commissioned to write that poem by the center for social impact learning, which is part of a graduate program with middlebury it’s, located in monterey, california, and they asked me to write a poem for their launch of this social centre. So i put up a facebook status and asked my entrepreneurial friends to tell me the words they think of when they think of social entrepreneurship and i got a bunch of words and a lot of them are in that poem, so dr grit risk. And so then i put a poem together for the launch of their center, and the name of the poem is is called dr excellent. All right, so we’re talking about maur creativity inside your organization outside the organization, using poets and other artists to sort of open things up. Yeah, and let’s, let’s start with, like, internally intern where where might we bring in? Argast? S o i think that internally creativity and a non-profit you can start with your board meetings or even just kind of your regular staff meetings. So i like to say that you know, a lot of the time we think about innovation when it comes to our programming or our products. We don’t always think about innovation when we’re thinking about how we run a meeting on a monday morning or board meeting so it can start with kind of basic creativity like, for example, there’s, an organization called the millennium campus network. Their board meeting, one of their board members told me recently, was the best board meeting she’d ever been tio, they didn’t use poetry, but what they did was they created a hackathon in their board meeting, so they were really creative about how they put the board meeting together, which i thought was fascinating. So i talked to abigail, who had created that plan, and she said that for them, creativity started with the way they set up the room. So thinking about what’s on the walls of your room in your meeting and what? What are you doing to kind of create a setting that feels different than other board meetings? Do our other monday morning meetings? I think, for example, there’s, a site called button poetry, it’s, a youtube channel and there’s tons and tons of spoken word poems. They’re they’re typically about three minutes long. You could even just play a poem at the beginning of your meeting, and it opens up a part of the brain that gets you thinking in a different way, and i just think so often we look at meetings is something that we dread going to and sitting through. So you start by infusing something different at the top of your meeting, it can really shift and change. The whole energy of the meeting do you think it’s risky toe invite meeting participants, too, do their own performance? No, i think actually you’ll get surprising results if you do that. When i found i run open mic set conferences so, like the opportunity collaboration, i did some stuff with the school world forum, and what i’ve found is when you invite the community to be part of being creative, they bring inside you, that you didn’t know that they had, and often those things can actually be used to infuse organization with new life. So yeah, bring in, bring in creativity from people that already you’re sitting at those meetings with you for sure, and we’ll see another side of people. Yeah, absolutely. It may not be poetry. I don’t know. It might be a song. It might be a guitar that they play someone’s a drummer. Someone has a poem and someone else plays behind them. I mean, the the options are endless when you bring in creativity in new ways. You mentioned opportunity collaboration, which is very collaborative and that’s where we met just like a month or so ago. Six weeks ago. Roughly. Yeah, in mexico? Yeah, and i run there open mike every year. And i talked teo jury in aunt over the team that put it on every year. And they said that one of the reasons why they like having the open mic is that it brings collaboration in a new way on people rave about it because they get to see those different sides of people. Also, something that i’ve often said is, you know, if you meet me and we talked for five minutes, you might find out that i live in boston or that i run strength of doves you’re not going to know intimate details of my life if you see me perform in an open mic, you know how hard it was to start my business, you know, personal details about losses that i’ve been through, and we connect in a deeper way, and then collaboration is richer because we care about each other as people, not just a cz business partners in a collaborative, collaborative setting, listening to drive, we learned some very intimate details about your dad’s death. Okay, very energizing, right? Well, let’s, go out for a break when we come back listen, i’m going to continue, of course, talking about getting creative. We’ll have live listener, love, et cetera. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent live listener love got st louis, missouri, brooklyn, new york and new york, new york new york’s checking in excellent lovett i’ve listener love yes, let’s go abroad always have very loyal seoul, south korea of listeners. Remarkable. I don’t know if it’s the same person all the time where people it’s multiple multiple in seoul, anya haserot for mexico city, very close to where lissa and i first met because we were in x top a at the opportunity collaboration we were talking about mexico city. Welcome live listen her love to you. What can i do? Keitel look, it’ll there was my thank you anytime and also in japan, tokyo and osaka checking in konnichi wa live listener loved all of our live listeners, and of course, we never forget affiliate affections for our multiple many am fm stations throughout the country. Affections if you’re listening on the terrestrial stations and, oh that’s, ah, terrestrial affection! I gotta work on that there’s something there and station affection, terrestrial and also podcast pleasantries never forget the podcast listeners over ten thousand i’m painting houses, washing dishes, whatever. It is you’re doing as you listen. Pleasantries to the podcast audience. Okay, listen. Thank you for helping. Yeah, now i have tried it with any time. Spanish mexico city that’s. Why? I like opportunity collaboration because i get to be i get to speak spanish more than i do on my regular day to day life. Do you do to poetry in spanish? I have a couple of lines in spanish in my poems. Everyone smile in my international women’s day poem. I talk about the venezuelan constitution, so i say constitutent dahna venezuela, but i typically i like there’s a line about using spanish because i’m not of dissent. That is latin at all, so i’m careful about how okay? You know what, that’s a much larger conversation about appropriation. And don’t betray yourself appropriately. You would feel yes, exactly. Um all right. So, let’s, keep talking about eso these internal. This idea of board meetings? Yes. Now i have had a lot of guests recommend. In fact, one michael davidson was just last last week recommending having people who are benefiting from your services come and deliver a presentation at every board meeting. So they are sharing. Fashion their tears about how your organization save their lives, improve their life, you know, maybe there’s some creativity there, you could ask someone like that toe do a performance instead of just read some paragraphs. Yeah, so one thing that i think is really important to note is, especially with organizations that are working organisations working with youth tons toe already think about maybe creativity, poetry, open mikes. It doesn’t only need to be youth there’s a lot of opportunity to do some writing workshops in any demographic i really believe, and if you’re producing content like that, you can have someone come in. It also, though, gives the opportunity to let’s say, you’re an organization a non-profit that’s working outside of the united states, but your board is primarily in the united states. If you do a writing project with the people that you’re working with on the ground and you bring back some of those writing samples and they’re available on the table during the board meeting during the coffee break, that’s the kind of thing that people in your board can look at even if you don’t have time to be reading their material or having a guest come into the actual board meeting. Okay? I mean, even in that case, you could have maybe someone who’s trained reading those store absolutely a voice artists or something like that fresh rather than just the one dimensional reading painting with a broad what else? Any other ideas? You know, the internal internal creativity as well? One thing that comes to mind is, you know, every organization faces kind of pain points, things that they’re struggling with. There are a lot of conversations now around diversity. And how do you talk about diversity within organizations? There are other challenges the leadership changes that happen or, you know, anything that happens internally. I really think that that organization should think about looking to more creative ways of having conversations around those tough things. Later on in the show got ilsen nasco mrs who the really amazing poet with the dialogue arts project, is going to be reading a poem on air and their organization will come in and do a full training, and they use spoken word poetry at the top of the training to get everyone’s kind of juices flowing. And then they do trainings around diversity around. Pain points within organization, so for those organizations that are going through maybe a transitionary moment or need some kind of a different training instead of just checking the box with, oh, we talked about diversity think about looking for creative resources that are out there to bring into those training’s you’ll have a better experience and your staff won’t feel like you’re just checking the diversity box, which i think is really important. Am i out of touch if i keep saying poets instead of spoken word artist? No, no, i have i missed twenty fifty by mr change of century, i think. First, i think the biggest distinction that often happens is a slam poet versus a spoken word poet. Slam poetry is a form of spoken word. It’s a competitive style of spoken word at least that’s the way i distinguish. But yeah, spoken reports are definitely poets the way that i think about it and this definition is different depending on who you talk to is spoken word or performance. Poetry is performed from, like the tip of your pinkie toe to the tip of your finger out the top of your head and you can also be a written poet that is publishing books as well. You’re also thinking about how am i presenting this poem beyond the page and that’s? Kind of what a spoken word are a performance poet is doing in my definition of it. Okay, so so if i say a spoken word artist. Yeah. That’s that’s what? I mean, that could be the same as poet or official versus slam performer. Yes, exactly. Slam is competitive. Yeah. How did americans turned poetry into a competition sport? Well, it’s gotten a lot more people paying attention to it. That’s for sure. So hey, that’s, it started. It originated in chicago. A guy named mark smith who is a construction worker, and then here in new york. There’s the moth that’s like storytelling. There’s also the nia recon is another location that does poetry slams you’re american. Say it one more time in new york weekend. Okay, mahogany brown is a poet. She’s actually on our roster. And she’s, an amazing poet who hosts their poetry, slams their team when you compete against their team. You come prepared, let me tell you. Okay. New york has some great poets. Okay, now, what’s. Your background you have. Ah, what is this? Oh, so social around? Yeah. How did you get into poetry? I started doing open mikes in college after i lost my dad and i went through two and a half years where i lost seven people in my life. And this is a lot of grief and poetry was the only thing that could really motivate me to get out of bed and go to things. I was running the open mic group on my college campus and then actually turned down the opportunity to apply for a fulltime social work job to figure out how more of these amazing social change poets could be earning a living from their poetry. And now we have strength of doves where we put poets in performance opportunities and workshop opportunities toe to really bring this to kind of communities that haven’t necessarily thought about spoken word. Poetry is a tool because it really is a tool. And the other thing i’ll say is the reason i think spoken word in particular, i think all forms of art are important and open up our brains in new ways spoken word is extremely accessible, so a really strong spoken word artist, in my opinion, is using poetry and using language in a way that someone who’s maybe never thought that they liked poetry or never thought of themselves as a creative person before can now access a really creative art form and begin to open up the idea from themselves that, hey, maybe i could write, or maybe i can open up this creative things, but what do we say to the people whose eyes glaze over? Oh, poetry it so it’s beyond may i don’t get it? Yeah, you know, it just doesn’t reach me. Listen, tio, watch two videos on button poetry or go search dialogue, arts project poets, strength of doves, poets i really have never seen it happen where someone said, i don’t like poetry on. When it’s exposed teo a couple of videos and said, i still don’t like poetry, it’s just not what you’re thinking of when you think of poetry. If you had a boring english class on poetry, poetry does not need to be born, i promise. Give me a subject that you like, email me a subject you like and i will send back a poem. That you will like about that subject. Okay. Do you want to show your email? Oh, yeah. It’s lyssa at strength of does dot com. Okay, listen, l i s s yes, challenge me. I guarantee i will be able to draw you in with someone else’s problems. Okay, cool. Let’s go outside. Our organizations have a like a mirror. So before we bring in carlos yeah. Conferences, galas, gallant fund-raising events. Why are fund-raising event so boring? I’m sorry if i’m offending anyone out there, but i just think we need to address this. So these gallows where you have a dinner, any of a bunch of speeches and so there’s a moment at a lot of these events where, you know, people are eating dinner and kind of talking to each other, and then you want to get everyone’s attention. So someone clicks on a glass, someone in charge of the organization says, welcome, everyone kind of turns their attention begrudgingly to the stage, and then they’re a bunch of speeches sometimes there’s really fascinating stuff in those speeches, but we’re not really our attention isn’t necessarily drawn immediately to the stage. The person sending welcome welcome zoho please hide me. I want to hear my gladstone brandraise oversignt neo-sage chimes. If you’re in a fancy paint bonem bungalow exactly. So it’s dead? I think everyone should try finding a spoken word poet and putting them on that stage. That’s, the way you get people’s attention don’t even say welcome like we just opened our secondly, just drive a trip or journey in a car really loud, really punchy everyone’s going to turn to you if you want to go a step further, you can hire a poet to write a commission to poem about your organization, and now in three minutes you’ve explained everything you’re doing. You’ve got everyone’s attention and you just invested all this money and all this time and creating this event. Don’t you want to vent the people going to talk about after the fact they’re going to be more likely to talk about it? If it’s different bringing a poet if you don’t for some reason believe, listen with all their energy and zeeland enthusiasm, think about what happened in beginning this segment we threw you in with lissa was completely different different format you said you turned into well. What is? That that’s, the only way latto college, did it with their market radcampaign recently. All right, we got carlos andres gomez, award winning poet member of the dialogue arts project, on twitter, he’s at carlos. A g live. Is there anything you want to introduce before before carlos carlos, let me say, just say, welcome, welcome to the show so much. Tony thinks my brother, carlos i’s, anything you want to say, i just want for everyone out there. That’s not, you know, always listening to spoken word. This is such an amazing opportunity. Godless is kind of a titan in the community and just does really amazing work, using poetry to have really important conversations. Carlos, please. Thank you so much. This poem is called tense. I’m holding my friend gino’s hands and asking the army recruiter for more information about the marines. Please, i say he fits with his cufflinks, pause it, his necklace through his shirt drags the back of his hand across the close shaven sand paper of his chin. Gino is staring him down through the island. Artie wears like a middle finger. We watched a stranger caught between the train movements of a machine and the churn butter in his body. Just like mine. Two months before, when i said, hell no toe a trip to the gay club, i just don’t want to leave and he went on it be like colonizing the space, i said which sounds a lot better than i’m uncomfortable i wouldn’t know how to stand what do i do if a song i like come on in zambia i walked the dirt roads of a slum my pinky finger intimately wraps around the smallest digit of the most infamous guy on the block. He was my friend. It is how friends walked the streets there. When i greet my iranian friend’s father, we embrace chief twice in thailand. My host casually patted my leg the first family dinner, i nearly jumped out the window, thinking he was reaching for something else. Everyone laughed, probably confused as to why this strange foreigner had been trained to be so foreign to the gentle touch of a man, a passer by give me and gino matching name i tongue the word around in my mouth. Feel the tender sting, make a home in my torso, stare at the word brotherhood splayed across the camouflage banner. The recruiter stares down the table, and though it holds the secret code to life’s, great questions, it’s corrected, stutter and suddenly overcompensating stands blend into the decorations behind. So much so that i can barely even tell he is still there. He pretended, if we are not, begin sorting and then re sorting the three lonely pamphlets dwarfed by the large rectangular table where they now six boys. Please. I’m just doing my job. His mouth bag in a voice so small and so human. It makes me feel like i have just blurted out a secret. This man has given his life to guard like freedom. Carlos andres gomez! Carlos, thank you so much. Thanks, carlos. Thank you so much. Let’s. Send tony. I don’t know why i have watery eyes. I just first listen, you know, i would need to think about it more, but but it moved me because i do so that’s. The kind of thing that dialogue arts project works. I would start with wood with poems to kind of open up a new space in everyone’s head and kind of i mean, the energy, even in this room, while we’re listening here in the studio just calms down. And there’s, you can start having conversations about your own experiences that can lead into deeper conversations for more shared understanding within your organization. Carlos, we have just like, a minute and a half or so. Do you want to share anything about that? About the poem? Yeah, sure. I mean, i was, i think, there’s there’s. So much to be there’s. Someone is so easy to have a very, i think superficial, topical conversation. If we if we wantto engage someone about gender or sexuality or any of these huge hot button issues or topics or anything related to identity and i think the biggest thing that dialogue arts project believes is that using personal narrative and using something artistic as a medium for that personal narrative that is the most that is the most, i think dynamic way to enter a conversation, because that that home, the true story, right about me walking down the main walk with the university of pennsylvania and i think me telling that story. It immediately invites other people that share stories in a way that that i think invites people into a vulnerable space, as opposed to having an intellectual discussion that doesn’t have any stakes involved and ultimately is not a meaningful conversation. Carlos on, listen, we have to leave it there. Excellent regardless, thank you so much. Thank you so much for sharing. Thank you, much less a piercy cofounder, executive director at strength of doves, its strength of doves, dot com and again on twitter, she’s at lissa poet thank you, thank you, thanks a lot. Coming up, secure your donordigital first pursuant, they reached out to me today to renew their sponsorship, like two months early, before i had even asked the email says their leadership is pleased with the partnership, and that gives me two thoughts. First, you need to check out their fund-raising tools because they are perfect for small and midsize non-profits pursuant, dot com is where they are. Second, if you want a partnership with non-profit radio let’s talk, i get results for sponsors now. It’s time for tony’s, take two my video this week is five minute marketing for planned e-giving it’s, a tiny piece of a ninety minute program that’s packed with easy and smart marketing strategies around planned e-giving if you want the teaser video it’s at tony martignetti dot com, if you want me to deliver the full program to train your office or conference audience, let’s talk that’s tony’s take two for friday, twentieth of november forty fourth show of the year. Scott koegler is the editor of non-profit technology news and used to be our technology contributor. He was there from the beginning for a long time. They’re at n p tech news dot com and he’s at scott koegler on twitter from the december six twenty thirteen show here is secure your donor. We’re talking about safeguarding your donordigital what are the, uh, what of the potential risks here if donordigital is compromised? Well, there’s a lot of actually tony and what’s, probably the biggest one is that not just the beta is stolen, but the information about your donors is compromised and that’s something that has made a whole lot of headlines recently well, over the last few years, actually, um about, you know, different different companies having having their data breached, having there credit card information, solan and now people losing, losing the privacy of the credit information identity theft by another word. So there are implications that are certainly public relations you don’t want to be, you know, it may not be a headline if you’re a smaller midsize shop, but you can have a public relations problem among your donors and volunteers without it being in the headlines. There’s legal implications and you couldn’t even have, like some financial problems mean, if people if it comes to the point of people suing you, are you having to pay for damages? Definitely, definitely. You know that i moved to south carolina recently, and last year i think it was earlier this year, actually, the the the state government website was breached. And supposedly all of the information that that anyone who has filed tax returns in the state oh, my goodness. Stolen. So, you know, i mean that’s bad enough. I haven’t actually heard of anyone who was, you know, was affected by having their identities stolen. But what happened was that the state, aside from the, you know, the political and and other kinds of just, you know, general discussion about how things were handled badly, they had to offer a free subscription service to an identity theft, monitoring service to literally everyone in the state. Oh, my and a couple people. And so on, top of on top of having to rebuild their infrastructure and, you know, tighten down their security. Um, you know, they have that financial burden, but, you know, just added something. So yeah, financial consequences definitely did this stuff the car during the five days when governor mark sanford was off with his girlfriend in in argentina, is that when that happened, it could have i don’t know, i you know, it could have been an argentinean internet connection. I’m good provoc story on he’s reputation has since been rehabilitated because he was he was elected. Tio what the house of representatives, i think for for south carolina? I think so. Although i have to i have to admit that i haven’t really followed much of the south carolinian political situation, even though i should have. Okay, well, you’re you’re new resident. Well, i am your break now did vote so i guess it’s good. What part of the problem with identity theft, though, is that people the bad people don’t use the data right away because they know that everybody who’s data was compromised is eyes on the lookout, but they’ll wait. I mean, they’ll wait three for five years and use the data then when your date of birth and social security number haven’t changed and maybe even your address hasn’t changed. And and by then people are not on the lookout for the for the theft because it’s been so many years since it occurred. Exactly exactly, and then it’s also hard to track down where that breach came from, because if it wass, for instance, of small provider, small company or a small non-profit they got they got breached? Uh, may not have been reported, right? Not everybody owns up to it, and actually not everybody actually knows that they’ve been breached. Right? Rights, it’s not in the hacker’s. Best interest to notify anyone that had that great yeah, yeah, now it gets it gets discovered by some audit. Or maybe the hackers will sloppy or something like that, but yeah, i’m sure there are lot of instances where organizations don’t even know that it’s happened. All right, all right. So if we’re going to protect our donor data, what do we need to be thinking about first? Well, the first thing is pretty obvious stuff is that, you know, if you don’t need the information, don’t keep it, don’t collect it, don’t get it one of the pieces of information, of course, that that non-profits do want whose credit card information, uh, and some sites you know, amazon in particular, and pretty much any e commerce site collect credit card information and then there’s a convenience to the chopper. The store that information? Yes. And, you know, it’s convenient and in a situation like amazon, people may go back there and by things you know, almost daily, and so in that case, it really is a convenience, so you don’t want to. I don’t want to keep entering my my credit card information every time i buy something for non-profit that that, um the frequency is probably significantly less than what amazon gets, and we would certainly hope it’s more frequent, but reality is they’re probably talking about a few times a year at the most. Yes, so in those cases, um allow the credit card information to the energy you sure that’s over a secure line and that’s here’s a jug and peace for https that’s uh uh that’s the secure website connections that links the website that someone’s feeling to the with a back end server store some reason, scott, i know that http is hypertext transfer protocol, right? And then i believe the asas a few yeses for secure. Okay, sorry, sorry. Nobody cares about nobody cares. Um, so and that part right there just means that someone monitoring are tapping into the line isn’t just catching the data while it’s streaming by them on dh collecting it that way, that’s the first line of security. But the second one news, you know, use the information, make the transaction, get the get the donation into the bank account, and then just don’t record the credit card information. And just by doing that, you’ll probably solve. I’m going to say at least fifty percent of the of the problems that a data breach can cause for constituents for donors. There’s other information that would fall into those to that category, i’m thinking, like date of birth, social security number, even even address? Yeah, address an email. I mean, you don’t want those to be compromised. Yeah, here’s an interesting piece of security information. Did you know if you have a person’s first name date of birth and their zip code, you can find out through there first name, date of birth and zip code that’s enough to identify? Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. We wouldn’t you? Yeah, when you say it, it makes sense, but somebody wouldn’t think that those if you’re not, if you’re not in a security role, you wouldn’t realize that those three things can be really damaging and you could find everything about those. So i mean, date of birth, i mean, probably non-profits don’t have to save date of birth, right? Date of birth, you know, probably they probably do need address information in order to send maybe a ten, ninety nine, you know, donation form at the end of the right, right? But certainly so security number is not necessary. I don’t think that’s required for ten, ninety nine. Well, non-profits aren’t sending ten, ninety nine’s. They’re just sending they’re just sending acknowledgement letters. Okay, so, yeah, ten. Ninety nine’s that’s for contractors. So so it wouldn’t you wouldn’t need it. It wouldn’t need you would not need it for donors. All right, but so there’s there’s information that we should save. But we should look scrupulously at what we are actually preserving is the point. Okay, what you need and don’t even ask for what you don’t need. And those things that you do need no dahna on a short term basis, like credit card information. Just believe it. Okay, okay. There’s still information that you need and there’s information that you want to keep. You want to keep the name, the donation history, maybe their activities. You may want to. Keep their their their address, and they want it. Particularly if you do send out snail mail kinds of information. You know, newsletters do still go by on paper. Uh, okay. And so there is information that you want and here’s, one of the ways that south carolina system was breached tonight, if they could have avoided the entire disaster with the effects of the disaster. Maybe not from a public relations standpoint, but from the effect on its citizens. By encrypting the data with health so well, where he talked about, you know, using a secure internet connection tps. And that applies and encryption to all of the information going across the internet wire. But once it reaches the program that stores the data, um, you know, that data is stored in a database, and the database is usually, um, pretty transparent. In other words, you can open the database. Look at the information and it’s you know, it’s in english. It’s in what’s, commonly called clear text. So it’s, you know, you can look at it with a human being can read it and understand it. Um and i know it’s easy and it’s the way that things are stored most of time. Um, what south carolina did not do. And actually, a couple of others didn’t dio notable ones are adobe and link them okay? Not small names and people that you would think would know better. They did not oppcoll the contents of the database. So what that means is if the data is not encrypted, hacker gets in, they download the database and they can use it’s all visible in clear text. Okay. Okay. All right. So so the data that we do store, we should consider encryption, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Encryptions pretty easy. Most databases have it as a non option. You could just, you know, take a box and bingo. It’s all encrypted. So we have to also consider where this data is safe, right? It’s? Lots of different places and including portables. Right? Um, sure. Cellphones get lost, laptops gets stolen, all those kind of things happen. Uh, i don’t know that. There’s an additional answer there. I mean, certainly you can password protected cell phones and laptops, but typically people don’t do that. Yeah, well, we’re going to get to policies that that they should be doing so, but they’re also the data is on servers. In your and hopefully your server closet is secure. I’ve seen a lot of servers that including businesses, small businesses where, you know, it’s in a like a ah whole janitorial closet or something up on a shelf. Definitely not secure it all, but data can also be in the cloud exactly that it could be in the cloud. And it’s kind of a counterintuitive. I’ll just give you my personal take on this. I think on. I believe that data is stored in a all right. You know, properly created cloud environment. It was much more secure than something that’s residing in your server. Uh, at your office. Okay, what did i tell you? Why? You know, first of all, servers in officers are managed by by people in those offices, typically and except for, you know, very large, non-profits most of those people are not, um, it’s, not a full time job to manage the security of the server right there doing other things. They have a full time job for a part time job and a piece of a part of a tiny portion of that time you maybe to make a back-up with the server on the other hand, cloud based systems, it is business it’s only business. Not only are the, uh, typically bound by terms and conditions of the contract with that you have with them to protect your data if they’re breached, uh, rage stands to lose their entire business just from the bad p r so it’s in their best interests to keep their, you know, their customers, clients, data secure, you know, they those kinds of environments, too, support the https secure connections they do typically encrypt the data. I’m not saying you don’t need to check those things, but i do believe that it’s, no overall, safer environment, leave it in the hands of the professionals. Okay, we have we have to go away for a couple minutes when we come back. Scott. Now, keep talking about safeguarding your donordigital. We’ll get into some of the policies that you should have. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, a gift. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. All right, scott, we know what data we’ve got and what we need to save and not save way we know where the data is stored, what kind of policies should we have in place? Yes, well, as you mentioned, it’s it’s a good thing to have a policy that says, you know, you need to secure your devices with a password so that every time you use that needs to be long, then, um, in my experience that that may work in corporate environments where the item shop has the ability to actually manage the devices that were used by their brother employees, but in an environment that says generally as loose as a non-profit becomes pretty difficult to force for one thing, you know, you’re your volunteers may already have bones that are being managed by their brother employers, so we got a conflict in that in that area, i’m still it’s a good thing to do. Um, certainly you want to be sure that the staff isn’t writing things down on pieces of paper, so if they are recording things, they are being recorded in a digital format in a secure form that so that whatever protections are being enforced in the room that digital connection are being used. They may not be one hundred percent, but it’s better than nothing for sure. We should also have policy around who has access to different pieces of data, absolutely. And that has to do with the, uh, the applications that you’re using to store your information some of the more simplistic applications, for instance, locally, you know, homemade databases, spreadsheets, things like that have very limited security options, right? Most of the most of the non-profit applications that are available commercially, i have what they call multi level rules so you can define a roll of manager out of the data entry work no, no hosting, volunteer and different kinds of rules like that in each one of those can have different levels of access to information. So somebody who’s carrying around a tablet that in the event registering people for the event, they only have access to the data entry function for that piece, it certainly would not have access two historical e-giving and other other information has already been recorded when i go teo cem, clients on i’m using their database there’s data that i can’t see? Social security number. For instance, i i can see that it’s preserved, but all i see in that field is a bunch of stars. Date of birth, i think is another one. Or maybe i see the year, but not the day in the month. Something like that. So there there are there are data, ways of preserving and i log on to that database so it knows who i am and what level of access i have. Exactly. When i was, that reminds me of when i was in the air force, i had i had top secret clearance. And then beyond top secret, there was something called psyop. Yes, i which wass was those top secret? T s psyop was the single integrated operating plan. And then, yes, i was for extra sensitive information. So you could have t s and then you could go beyond that, and then beyond that. And then there’s, you know, obviously there people who had hyre levels of security clearance beyond me. But i had top secret c i a p ece. Anyway, uh, so just just exactly as you told me that. Tony, you kill me, right? Right now. There. Are other reasons i need to kill you. Is that another doing? Just revealed. Okay. All right. So the software can help us. All right. So this is part of our policies is who who has access to what? On a need to know basis, right? That’s, basically, what do you need to know? To do your job? Sabat. Exactly. And there’s one two things i’ll bring up here one is that, you know most well, most a lot of instances of breach come from not getting rid of logging access. That is not necessary any longer. So someone leaves the organization. The very first thing that should be done is that loggins should be deactivated. Deleted whatever. Yes, at the very least. Password changed. But there are lots of, uh, lots of instances where that wasn’t done immediately. And the data, you know, goes away and let’s face it. No, it it’s not just a friendly departure. That person is more likely to take action immediately than they are, you know, months down the road. So quick action is is really, uh, you know the right thing to do. Let’s, talk a little about insurance. There’s, there’s, cyber insurance. There is dahna and, you know, i haven’t really looked at the prices for those, but i’m sure that that very is based on the amount of information, the value of your database, all those kind of things, but i would say that most of the large insurance company i’m looking at the hartford and shove, for instance, they offer what’s called a data breach insurance, uh, which is exactly what we’re talking about here. It’s protection against losses, protection against lawsuits from, uh, problems occurring based on the loss liability, all those kind of things i would say it’s definitely something we’re looking into. And of course, you know, hindsight will always tell you that you should have done it. But, you know, pryce will make that determination for you, okay? We’re not holding you to the standards of oven insurance broker, so you don’t need to know the price, but but important for people to know that it exists and and as you suggested, you know, if you have a bad person, maybe they left on bad terms or maybe they’re still working for you, and they just have some bad intentions no policy is going to prevent them from getting what they want if they’re if they’re industrious enough like and an interesting statistic. Seventy five percent of a raw data fresh and i’m talking well, i guess it could be called hacking, but david left, this use of data happens internally of that seventy five percent, fifty percent of it is from physical, just physically copying the data onto a thumb drive. Or, you know, some other ceo or something like that. So it really, you know, most of what’s gonna happen is really gonna happen within the organization. That’s frightening and this heartening unfortunately true. You’re a former ceo, right? Chief information officer, chief technology officer on the corporate side. What? What more do you want to impart? I haven’t asked you about, uh, lock the doors. That’s that’s probably the biggest and most difficult thing that we had to contend with making sure that the facility is secure. Now those when i was doing that, cloud computing was really not a big issue. So locking the doors, you know, for a crowd environment doesn’t really does it really work? That said, we are still there’s still paper records that your store in provoc hammocks and almost any organization and locking doors were locking the file cabinets or some other way, securing access against the paper records. Still it’s still the right thing to do, and we’ll we’ll avoid some of the day the press that we’re talking about. Yes, excellent. We’ve been talking about digitised data, but there’s still lots of paper records and just simple locks on a file cabinet on blocks on doors, andan that server door that you know that those hallway closet servers that i see where it’s the maintenance you know, it’s it’s above the slop sink that’s crazy frank, that is one one other issue that i’ll talk about and that is what’s called social engineering and has nothing to do with data. Uh, it’s it’s really old fashioned and involved. Usually telephone, but it could be personal approaching face-to-face. Okay, you know, we talked about the three pieces of information that will lead to someone really knowing who you are, right? Uh, first name, date of birth and your zip code. You may not say all those things to the same person at the same time, but social engineering involves people making phone calls into an organization. Talking to different people and pulling different pieces of information from those different people and then assembling those outside so they’re pretty easy to, you know, called secretary and they, you know, i’m trying to get the thie owners birthday gift, you know what? They were on dh, you know, by the way, you know, at another person calls in to another person in the organization and says, you know what? Town today with them mean, now there you go, right there, three piece of information, yes. Wow. That’s okay, those air bad there’s a bad actors, but but but if somebody wants it, they can they can put it together over time. And andi, even if even a small organization, even if there aren’t that many people, if they can call they could do it over time, they can have a have ah, accomplice maybe helping. So one time it’s a man a couple weeks later, it’s a woman asked in different things, your office isn’t going to protect against that exactly. Then we’re not as people, we’re not wired to think, you know, in that kind of devious way to protect ourselves. Okay? All right. All the more. Reason for thinking about this thing about cyber insurance, i think, exactly, exactly all right next week, there’s no live show affiliates. I will have a show for you, but i don’t know which one. Yet more important than that. I hope you enjoy your thanksgiving time for family and friends over a long holiday weekend. Enjoy. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Where in the world else would you go responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits whatever type of work you do to improve our world pursuant dot com, our creative producer is claire miree off. Janice taylor is today’s line producer gavin doll is our am and fm outreach director. Welcome gavin doing an outstanding job. The show’s social media is by diner russell, while susan chavez is on maternity leave she’s having a little baby today. Congratulations, susan. Our music is by scott stein with me next week be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Amador is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for November 13, 2015: Your Engaged Board & In-Kind Gifts

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Michael Davidson: Your Engaged Board

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Michael Davidson says your board members are happiest when you ask them to do more–not less. He tackles how to recruit and maintain an engaged board. He’s a consultant and board coach and former chair of Governance Matters.

 

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We’ve got a listener of the week. Congratulations, michelle clan in boulder, colorado. She tweeted that she’s challenging her board toe listen to six shows before their next board meeting. I love that non-profit radio is helping michelle’s board, and i hope they’re gonna listen to this week’s show very relevant about boards. Congratulations, michelle clan non-profit radios listener of the week i’m glad you’re with me i’d be forced to endure bronco candid i assists if i inhaled the idea that you missed today’s show you’re engaged board michael davidson says you’re boardmember zehr happiest when you ask them to do more, not less, he tackles how to recruit and maintain the engaged board. He’s, a consultant and bored coach and former chair of governance matters and in-kind gif ts maria simple, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder, returns to share her advice about in-kind gif ts how do you find these non-cash gif ts their value and the right appraiser? When do you need an appraiser? Maria answers it all that originally aired on october tenth twenty fourteen between the guests on tony’s take two sincerity still trumps production value responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com very glad, very glad to welcome back michael davidson. He has helped over a hundred boards, has over thirty years, working with non-profit boards and leadership of many organizations. He’s, lead consultant for the united way boards, serve new york city board training program and teaches at the new school university and adelphi university, along with being former chair of governance matters. He’s been an attorney, criminal prosecutor and bakery owner. Those cookies were delicious. His coaching practices at board coach dot com michael davidson, welcome back. Morning, tony. Great to be back. It was you were on. This is really momentous too. May you were on the very first show that’s amazing it was it was july fifth, two thousand ten. And that was back when it was called the tony martignetti show. Yes, i didn’t even think to include non-profits with that it’s it’s about me with that. Um but yeah, so five and a half years ago. That’s amazing and we’re still talking. About board way. We’re always talking about boredom. Would exgagement ford fund-raising yes, you had a block post recently that stimulated mito to think that you need to come back. The engaged board have some traits of unengaged board. Yeah. It’s. Really interesting that the thing that prompted this article was a kind of a ce national study which said that, you know, boards are all committed to the mission, but a very large percentage of them are unengaged and and that’s the reality. I mean, that’s, that’s what? I see boards who people get brought in, they have a great they believe in the mission. Whatever the mission is and their extraordinary number of wonderful missions that people get involved in and they bring him in and they put him on board. But no one quite knows what to do with them and how to really engage them. And i keep looking at that question is i work with boys and for me, it’s thoughts to boil down to this a really simple stuff that i think organizations khun d’oh. The first one is that people get connected because they believe in the mission they want whatever it is, it’s, they always come with passion. They come into a passion for this particular cause whether it’s, you know, helping in greve families or a particular a disease that you know that they think really needs to be addressed or theater or whatever it is, and then they sit him around a table away from the mission. Yeah, and the connection with that mission kind of dissipates into the details ofthe finance and management and oversight and all that kind of stuff, and they get further and further away from the passion. Okay? And so for me, one of the keys is you kind of keep keep him connected with the passion, and there are very simple things that boards do to do that, okay? We’re going. We’re just like overviewing of the you get these three areas of traits of engagement were overviewing them and then we’ll get into detail on great. We’ll come back and hit him each one, so okay, what’s, the what’s, our second engaged board trait that the second one is having high expectations and enforcing those expectations. It’s a job enforcement enforcement like a cop. Okay, but not, you know, good cop, bad cop, good cop. And i can’t marry the cop murray, the cop fremery company on a corner that you know, you know, and it’s making sure that it’s everybody’s clear about what the job is that they agree that they’re going to do the job, and then there’s a process to encourage, supposed to enforcement, encourage and car encourage them to continue doing the job at the best of their level. And the thing that’s really interesting about that is it’s counterintuitive. I got a board executive director ization. Oh, my god. If i asked too much of my boy, the leaf and that’s. Not true, i think it’s totally the reverse. I thinkyou mohr. You ask of people the happy they are okay. In the end, they engaged. All right. Excellent. Well, go into detail on that. And then. Well, the third round. The executive director has responsibility. Absolutely. The executive director’s key, i believe, to the whole process. Too many executive director zoho my god, the board is by boss and i better not push adam and i better not try to tell him what to do because the fire me so i can’t tell them what to do. And that’s totally wrong. T e d is the professional in the room. We all arts board members were all amateurs. Thie edie knows what the organization needs and has. To really serve as a coach for the board behind the scenes, working through the chair, working through the officers, working through the executive committee but always serving as a coach to move the board forward in the direction that the organization needs. You’re coming at this not only as, ah coach on consultant for boards and organizations, but you’ve you’ve been on many boards and you’re on many boards right now. Right now. Two, two alright, i know i know you wouldn’t do it to have been on many in the but yes, ooh now, yeah, yeah. Okay, won’t you shout out ones you’re on? Well, one isn’t really interesting organization and it’s a great story, actually, about boards, it’s going critical community works and we worked to bring theater into schools, and we work to connect schools with theater and all sort of connect kids with a history of their neighborhoods. It’s a very interesting connection between education and theater and arts and history, and we went through a period, actually where we almost closed the doors, the model, the business model was no longer sustainable. Uh, schools no longer had the money to pay for these kinds. Of things in the school to bring kids to plays and things like that because the nature of budgets and we were almost ready to shut down and the board with some great board members really did a very tight analysis of cash flow and of what programmes were sustainable and what programs we’re not sustained. Serious introspection, siri’s introspection with detailed analysis, detailed financial analysis of what? What sustainable and what’s not sustainable. And we cut what’s, not sustainable. And we’re left with a few basic things that are sustainable and i think the organization’s going to revive and it’s a lot of it is his board work with the executive director. And just a minute before our first break what’s the what’s, the other organization, the others. My synagogue board. I’ve been on there for too many years. Okay, like i come off. Come on. I used to be chair. I left for a while. They brought me back. It’s, you know it’s. A community obligation for me. Okay, well, what’s the name of the society for the advancement of judaism run the upper west side napor side of new york city. Okay, there’s, another upper west side. Somewhere in the world. All right, you’re gonna get something. I do enough of this new york centrism. I mean, personally, i’m the center of the universe, and then new york revolves around me, but it’s also, you know, it’s. Another sort of center around. May i do enough of that? So don’t get in trouble. All right? Let’s, go out for this break when we come back, michael and i’m going to keep talking about these three traits of engaged boards and of course, i’ve got live. Listen, love, etcetera, stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy. Dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Okay, michael davidson. Um, let’s, go back to the first part. Now, personal experience. It starts with a personal connection. It’s yours with a personal connection, but you have to maintain we’ve got to keep it up. You got you got you, you’ve got to keep it up. And there are really two very simple things that boards can do to keep it up. One is you bring the mission into every board meeting. So as part of the agenda for every board meeting, you have somebody telling the story. Yeah, either a staff member or a client, someone who comes in to talk about the impact that this program has had online client story lines. I mean, that could be tearful, it’s tearful, and it serves a number of purposes. First, it reinforces the mission connection. But the other thing that it serves when you asking boardmember is to go out and raise money they got have stories to tell, no one’s going to get interested about statistics of a program and the numbers and so on and so forth, right, they’re going to get interested in the impact on dso boardmember sze have got tow have these stories, but what’s important about the way adults remember things right? We don’t remember stuff that we’ve read as well as stuff that we’ve heard. So you have a real person in there talking about a real event versus a couple of paragraphs, there’s just a couple of paralyzing the latest program achievement exactly where so so you do that, then the other side of us, he bring it into the board boot. The other side of it is bringing the board members out to the program. So you build in an expectation, which is we’ll get the expectations, but you build in an expectation that every boardmember has to visit a program twice a year. Shut off to the program, just go there, watch it, talk to people, ask questions, learn about what’s going on and then another expectation is every boardmember is expected after they visited a program to come back to the board and tell this story report their report and so they talk about how they reacted to this. So now you get to results from that right? Number one, it reinforces that you got to go visit program because you don’t want to be the only boardmember who never had a story to number one and number two. Now, i’ve got my story that i heard, and i’ve got your story that you heard from us, and now i’ve got twice as many stories to tell about the organization so it’s two very simple things that maintain the mission connection. And then on top of that, every board meeting you’re hearing a story exactly right so it’s in front of them, not that’s, not a special that’s. Not a special meeting. That’s every every meeting, every meeting. It’s on the ejecta, it’s on the job. Okay, um, yeah, i guess. I mean, you said it, but i want to dive a little deeper with it. The boards tend to lose that. That personal connection, the passion that brought them there turns into a monthly budgetary analysis, staffing levels, competitive analysis. You know which things are important too. But that becomes the sum, the whole thing that’s, right. And that and that’s, when the board members get together and it’s, you know, another part of it which i didn’t quite push in that in that. Article is that it’s about the group it’s about the team part? A big part of what motivates board members is being part of the team. We don’t liketo operate on our own, not we’re not good as human beings. Is that right? We are best in groups. We all know that we do our best. We are best our best selves come out in groups, something some groups not so good. But mostly our best selves come out in groups. And so you want to reinforce that sense of a team at the board meeting? Yeah, so it can’t all be just a little business, and the more you know, the detailed business it’s got to be the big stuff that that we joined together around, and you give people an opportunity to express that as they asked questions from the staff member or the client has come in from the boardmember what had a, you know, a visit that they’re reporting on, and that conversation builds the sense of a team i’m standing. Yeah, sometimes it’s really simple. The emotion comes through that’s, right? And you know, it is it’s about the emotional tony. You’re absolutely right. We were not rational creatures. We are emotional creatures. We will use our rationality to explain emotions that’s good and maybe to control them sometimes, but mostly we way run by our emotions by our sentiments and that’s that driver have we got to pay attention to that? You know, i sought out my professional life is a lawyer. So all the legal stuff about boards, i know it, but i kind of forget it because it’s not as important as the emotional side and we have plenty of guests talking about the legal side. Yeah, yeah. Good genes. Akagi are regular legal contributor, often talking about board the fiduciary obligations, etcetera. Yeah. All right, let’s. Go to the expectations. Yeah. Let me ask you a threshold question. Do you like to see expectations in writing absolute for a perspective board? Absolutely. Coming on the board. Here’s what we expect you got that right? You recruiting me to come on my on your board? I’m asked the first question i ask is so what’s the deal and i want to see it. You know, if it’s just told well you’re supposed to do this, you’re supposed to do that it’s kind. Of vague, right? I want to see it in writing, okay. And seeing it in writing. Well, first of all, to get to that writing. Where do you get to that? Writing from where do you get to that written list of expectations? The board has got to agree to it, you know, like a job description. Yeah, but it doesn’t come from the outside. It’s gotta come from the inside. There’s. No outside authority that can write that. That contract for you, it’s got to come from an agreement on the part of the board members. This is what we expect off ourselves. Okay, so that’s that’s that’s a conversation. So the executive committee works on this are usually, ah, governance committee. So the governance committee would take a look at what? What are the expectations for board members? Come up with what they would propose. Put those on the table, have a conversation with the board and get the board to approve it. The vote on it? Yes. This is this is it. This is what we expect, and they and their very specific, you know, how many board meetings were you expected to attend? Yeah, that every boardmember is expected to serve on a committee the number of side visits, the personal contribution site visits are the program yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the broker was just ok the contribution, how much? Everybody i believe every boardmember should write a check it’s going to be different in different organizations, but they got to demonstrate their old commitment. What’s the expectation for fund-raising you expect around the fund-raising do you ah, like to see all board members have a certain the same minimum? Or is it more tea to your yoga really varies? You know, much bigger organizations that have, you know, museums, theatre groups, and so on they will put in and many others too, if they’re more, um, more mature organization will put in a number five thousand dollars, okay, smaller organizations, they struggle with that our listeners are more small, make it small and many eyes they they struggle with that because they say, look, if i put that hyre number half of my board can’t do that, you know? So what we do with the smaller organizations, for starters, is simply say every boardmember is expected to make a personally significant contribution, so what is personally significant mean, you have to have a conversation about that, and for me, i have a i have a kind of ah rule of thumb, right personally significant means you have to think before you write the check, right? Ok, over the check that you don’t have to think about that’s not significant, right? It’s got to be significant relative to what you do, maybe it’s a hot one of the top three charities or some other standard like that. Once you get it started, then you congratulate inching up overtime, ok, but you started with the notion of it being personally significant, and you like to see this as you said, personal gift not not, give or get it’s, give and get given and given and that’s an injunction conjunction okay, we’re both lawyers do that. So that’s, right, former, former well and happy yeah, i’m happy about it. So, yes, it is, and because i believe every boardmember has got to make a personal commitment, right? And i believe they’re better board members if they’ve got as they say, skin in the game and that they’ve written a check and they’re going to pay more. Attention, because they’re they’re investing in this, and they’re also getting out and are also getting involved in, you know, selling tables for the gala, the gulf, whatever it isyou know all of that kind of work as well, but it’s kind of because they can’t do that work unless they put themselves on the line. You can’t go to your friends and ask him to contribute for the gala because if we’re going to say, i hope you’re what are you doing? Yeah, you know, we dwelled on this. We’re talking about expectations gentle, but we dwelled on fund-raising because i found something that i i was asked to do some board we search some research about boards back when i was an employee is on my st john’s university. No, no letter home where you really saved me. I’m in france, tony from nineteen, ninety seven it was an article i found fund-raising realities every boardmember must face, quote to demonstrate their commitment boardmember sze must first make a generous gift proportionate to their means. End quote nineteen, ninety seven we were still talking about this. We were always told years the same story. Yeah, the dynamics don’t change? Yeah, yeah. Why is that? Because, that’s, the reality of what we’re dealing with, right? We’re dealing with the reality ofthe volunteers with dealing with the reality it’s a uniquely american phenomenon. Okay, we take people ordinary people from all walks of life, right? And we asked them to be responsible for charitable organizations to be the stewards of these organizations, to guide the organizations to support these organizations. It’s a very strange phenomenon. If you think about it, right. When you ask people, you know, i want you to serve on my board. So here’s the deal. Right. Okay, i’m expecting you. Come six meetings a year. I want you to serve on a committee. Okay? I’m asking you to pay for the privilege. And as a bonus, you get to ask your friends for money. Okay? That’s the deal, right? It is, but we do it. So it doesn’t. The dynamics of what make this makes this challenging. Never change. They never change because it is inherently a challenging back-up proposition. Tohave all of our charitable work, all of our non-profit work run by volunteers. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That’s. A very articulate explanation. That’s. Why it’s the same in nineteen nineties not going to stop lt’s not going eighteen years from now. We have the same conversation. All right? Hopefully we know a little bit more with some or expectations a cz you’re departing the board, you want to know why people leaving? Yeah, and sometimes these conversations are really interesting exit interviews, the exit interviews. So i’ve been involved on on the selection panel for a thing called a non-profit excellence awards non-profit excellence awards, which is award given every year in new york city for excellence and non-profit management. So one of the organizations that we were doing a site visit on this year, i was talking about the fact that one of their very serious major contributors on the board was announcing that he was gonna leave. So one thing is, oh, my god, but, you know, we love you buy or someone sat down with him and said, well, what’s going on tell us why you’re leaving and basically what he said was he says, look, i’ve been on this board for five years, i’ve been on the finance committee for five years, i do finance every day, i’m tired of doing finance. I don’t want to serve on finance anymore, so i’m getting off the board and the chairman said, you don’t have to serve a fine and it’s not the only connection i already committee. What what would you like to be interested in? What would get you interested? And he wanted to serve on the program committee, which worked on the evaluation of programs on their metrics, on their outcomes and things like that? Bingo! He didn’t leave that’s a grand slam grizzly. I didn’t lose the big donor major, but what’s happened. And now he’s happier and the organization hasn’t lost his ten. Now, sometimes in an exit interview, it doesn’t quite work that way when you find out from someone stepping off about the board. What was your experience? What worked for you? What didn’t work for you? How do we how could we make it better? Who does these exit interviews? Ceo. Exactly. Director, i think not. Fellow boardmember fellow boardmember. Yeah, i would. You know, it could be the chair. Yeah. Could be the chair of the governance committee. Is the trouble? Could be with the executive director. That would be the board relationship. Yeah, so? You figure it out, you know, probably the most neutral. If there’s trouble. I mean, there might be trouble. Yeah, but usually the most neutral. Be the chair of the governance committee because that person might be having some trouble with chair of the board. Yeah, you mentioned is governance committee now? Twice. What? That’s? Not a very common committee. It’s more and more common. It is what we expect of our governance committee. Well, it used to be what was the nominating committee. Ah, so it’s job was bored. Recruitment. Now, it’s it’s taken on a larger roll off of the life of the board. So it looks at the by-laws it looks at board procedures. It manages the process of evaluation on which we hadn’t gotten to of board members. Because once you have those expectations, expectations are only useful. If you review and evaluate let’s talk, you know what you mean? That piece of paper, your notes, the guy, the guy wanted his notes at the beginning and handed it to him. And now he’s holding them now into quarters. Not looked at it once. You know this, you know the self atop your head. Give me. The notes back stop fiddling with that. The director is that folded up in the little quarters was gonna rip it up into shreds. Putting his shredder alright board of al u ation. Yeah, so we have expectations. You have expectations, right? So it’s a number of different ways sometimes boardmember typically serve a three year term. That’s who we should like that folk. So sometimes what you do is when the person is coming up for for potential renomination. That’s when you do a review, should this person be nominated again for another term? That’s one way another way is i think i’ve left. I’d love to have and some organizations do it every year there was a conversation chair, the governance committee chair of the board, depending upon who you know, it was best to have that conversation with each boardmember every year. So how you doing? How have you done against these expectations? How do you feel about your performance? What are you hoping to do next year? So it’s that you know it’s the kind of a thing that any manager would do with an employee that their supervising right? You don’t just given employee job. Description and hope that they fulfill it right? You review them on a periodic basis so with a boardmember you do it once a year and you find out what’s going on and hopefully re energize the person, maybe you find different things for them to do and that they’d be engaged in, and someone so it’s an active process of interaction with every boardmember we’re just a couple minutes left here. I want to get teo the executive director’s responsibility in feeding you call it meat eating meat to the board and that’s it’s a really subtle process, but it’s really important and there’s two sides to it. One is there are really important questions that board should be dealing with, you know, what’s our financial future what’s our prospects. What of our programs are sustainable? What pro? What should we be seeking for outcomes of our programs? Where we going now? Sometimes executive directors don’t want their boards in cage that knows that because they want to make those decisions themselves, but they are the sea important things that you can get an executive can get important understanding and knowledge from smart board members and and make it a collaborative process. So they got a they have to be willing to trust the board. Teo, do this kind of stuff. But so how did the executive director get to do it? They do it suddenly they do it through the board chair. They do it to the executive committee. They make suggestions. They guide the work, they ask questions. You know, my my first experience on a board, i was a young lawyer, right? So i got recruited to this board of a senior service agency on the west side. They needed a lawyer on the board, so i got to be on it again. The western again. Oh, god. Not that we hear you’re new york accent, so it’s. But sooner or later, i became a lawyer, became the board chair, right? I would meet every week with the executive director, and she would tell me what she needed from me. She would tell me what she needed from me to get from the board. And we worked this a tina and that’s, a good executive director does that she’s a partner with the board chair and guiding the work off the board. But at the same time has to be willing to trust the board and be willing to put some of these meaty issues on the board table, because that means that he or she are not going to able to totally control him, right? The board is going to have a say on these questions as they should, and if if the if the offerings heir to minuscule who’s when we start to get disengagement, of course i mean you we recruit smart people, yeah, with good experience in all of their professions and lives and businesses, and we don’t give him challenging challenge do right? It doesn’t work, it doesn’t work, the more the challenge, the happy where you are. Yeah, that’s your that’s the irony you said earlier and i intruded to thee. The more you give, the happier you’re bored will be that’s, right? Yeah. Okay. All right. Let me ask you last minute. What do you love about this work? You’re doing around boards, it’s the people they’re so interesting and it’s the missions this so interesting. I mean, the range of things that people find important to do in life and to achieve in society is enormous. And i never would predict it. I mean, right now, right now, i’m working with a group that works with kids newyork city again in harlem, right? Teaching, um, ice hockey. Okay? And and and the parents and the kids this’s important? Not just sports, but charitable. They’re really changing kids lives by ice hockey. I dealt with another organization, new jersey, now across the river, right provides support for families who’ve lost the joy of a child. Grief counseling. Yeah, everybody thinks about grief counseling for adults who’ve lost spouses, right? But for you, no. So the rates for me what’s exciting is this range of things causes interests that people can get engaged in. Michael davidson, board coach many years experience over one hundred boards working with them, you’ll find his practice at board coach dot com. Thanks so much, michael. Why pleasure. Welcome back. So you get in five years. You have, you know, i know it won’t be that long. Yeah. Tony’s take two and in-kind gift’s coming up first. Pursuant. Online tools for small and midsize shops they’re committed to our community ceo is trent ryker. He saw the passion for mission in the twelve years he worked in non-profits also saw how under resourced so many organizations are the tools that they have are smart, they help your fund-raising you’ll raise more money and they are affordable pursuant dot com my video is still up on how sincerity trumps production value. You can see the earthquake in new york city last week, and i read from a hilton hotel letter in brooklyn broken english, but the sentiment definitely came through on that video is at tony martignetti dot com that’s tony’s take two for friday, thirteenth of november forty third show of the year. Here is in-kind gif ts with maria simple marie sample is back she’s, our monthly prospect research contributor and the prospect finder she’s, a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com her book is panning for gold. Find your best donorsearch prospects now she’s our doi n of dirt, cheap and free. You can follow her on twitter at maria simple. Welcome back, maria! Hey there, tony, how are you? I’m doing very well. How are you today? Just fine. Thank you. Go that’s. Good. We’re here to talk about gifts in-kind on this fall. Afternoon what way are we are but i first need to just quickly mention to you that apparently i am having a three year anniversary with your show this week. Really? You’ve been tracking your well, you know, who’s been tracking it is lincoln. Oh, really? You saw an anniversary notice on lengthen. This is this is your third year it yet it sent out an anniversary notice. Tio my connections and i all of a sudden started getting all these congratulatory notes this week. So i thought, well, that isn’t that appropriate that here is my my weak teo, reconvene with you so it’s been three wonderful years. Wow, that’s really something i would if you had asked me, i would have thought it was i would’ve said it was more like two holy cow that’s. Terrific. I get those notices i but i don’t always read all of them. Usually i just read the birthday notices. I don’t always read all the work anniversary notices, but i also noticed they send them out throughout the month, so they don’t. They don’t only come in the beginning. So maybe i just maybe i haven’t gotten yours yet. You’re three. Three year anniversary, but happy anniversary. I’m glad you’ve been with me for three years. Thank you for having me for three years. Wonderful. Oh, thank you. My pleasure gifts. In-kind let’s. Make sure everybody understands what a gift in-kind is. Yes. That’s, right, let’s do that first before i get thrown off into jargon jail first, first out of the gate here, so gets in-kind would really be anything other than monetary donations. So typically they would be considered donations of food, clothing, medicines, furnishings, office equipment, building materials and, you know, even sometimes services that air provided by somebody could be considered ah, gift in-kind as opposed to a gift in cash that they might give to your organization. So if they’re providing some sort of a specific service and then not charging you for it, i know that, you know, sometimes consultants will do that on on a pro bono basis, so that would be considered a gift in-kind as well, i could throw out another example that i’ve worked on a few times. Gifts of artwork, art collections are also gifts in-kind i worked on a really interesting one once it was a presidential memorabilia collection. And it included a picture. It included the resin, the one of the nixon resignation letters, original signed. I think there were five or six that he signed, and it also had a picture of that famous picture of jimmy carter, menachem begin and anwar sadat. You know, the three of them are shaking hands well, thiss was a deep into six figure art collection, but so they can be really interesting on dh cars. I’ve worked on a couple of classic car donations also, which can be quite valuable. I know you mentioned automobiles. I was just thinking of classic automobiles, but, um, yeah, they can be that could be kind of fun to work on. Well, so, you know, it must have been interesting. I’ve never had the opportunity myself to be working directly with, uh non-profit while they’ve been, you know, fortunate enough to receive something, you know, of that type of value on also, you know, it got me to thinking about, you know, well, what if i were a small to midsize non-profit and have the millionaire next store living in our community and maybe people didn’t even realize they were housing any type of art collection or one or two even significant pieces in their home? And you know what? You know? What do you do? What is the next step that you do if you find out that perhaps it’s somebody’s left it to you and there will or they could be making the gift while they’re still alive? When then, you know, it got to be really complicated as i started to research this a little bit to try and figure out. Well, what is the non-profit need to do first, in terms of valuing the artwork? So what did you do? I’ll tell you what organizations i kind of came up with that are reputable in terms of places you would turn to, but i’m curious to know how it worked out. How did you appraise the artwork? Yeah, well, let’s, let’s, take a step back and make sure he understands the for a gift that’s valued over five thousand dollars. And again, like maria said, this is we’re talking about non-cash gifts, so not this is not cash or stock, but something other than that. Over five thousand dollars, the irs requires what’s called a qualified appraisal and that’s a term of art and the qualified appraisal has certain requirements, and a qualified appraisal has to be done by a qualified appraiser and that’s also a term of art, and they’re certain credentials that the irs requires the place that i turned for the presidential art collection anyway was thie american association of appraisers i think i’m pretty sure they’re based here in new york, and i believe i contacted them first for some recommendations specific, too presidential memorabilia, was it perhaps the american society of appraisers? Because my research shows that they’re the oldest organization founded in nineteen thirty six, and they think they are in the new york area, okay, could have been, but i think there’s another one, too, which i think is triple a american association of appraisers or american appraisal association, so we could try either one of those, but yours is here’s more bonified because you actually research that i’m remember i’m living off the top of my head. Yeah, i actually am. I can actually post a list, uh, post show onto your facebook page, but there were actually sort of six top societies or associations, if you will that that my research turned up one. Was that one i just mentioned the american society of appraisers which, according to this particular web site that lists them, says that this one is the oldest and then there’s the art dealers association of america, thie appraisers, association of america. Well, there’s the triple oh, yeah. There’s that could’ve been it. Okay, please go. Thie appraisal foundation, thie international society of appraisers and the private art dealers association. So i thought that was all interesting. Then i got to wondering if you can actually turn to any of the major houses that actually, you know, the auction houses like those that you might be seeing featured on something like antiques roadshow. Ah, but i didn’t know if that was, uh, if people turned to those types of auction houses to help, you know, evaluate the worst oven item. Certainly an auction house, i suppose, would get involved once there. It actually want to, you know, offload that particular items so that they will end up having the cash. Uh, i i would imagine that would be the case for any non-profit other than a museum who would want that gift, perhaps as part of their dahna display, yeah, it’s it’s it could go broader than that, you know, there are ways that non-profits khun use gifts in-kind in their mission that that are permissible and are not so obvious, like hospitals can use artwork because they can decorate waiting rooms and hallways and things. One of the classic car donations that i worked on was for a university, and we were anticipating using the classic convertible in there athletic recruiting because they thought that seventeen eighteen year olds, when they’re thinking about what college to go to to play sports, might love driving around in a being driven around in a fifty seven chevy, i’m pretty sure that’s what it was convertible, so there are different charitable uses that they’re not as obvious as like you said, you know, the museum, there can be other charitable purposes for for these types of gift no, yeah, i hadn’t thought of that. That sounds great, actually, i can i can really see how an organization might want to step back and think about how it could fit in, as you said to their overall mission or two attraction like in the case of the college or university. There with their son sports department. Really wonderful stuff. And of course, there’s. Also the other examples you gave you no services could be gift in-kind so that’s obviously being used used up immediately a point that i want to make. Two is it’s sort of subsumed in what were saying? I’ll make it explicit. You have to find the right kind of appraiser. There are like i mentioned presidential memorabilia there. Our appraisers are specialising just that. So if you had a ah, a fine art photograph that was being donated to you you need to find someone who specializes in not only find our photography but they may even specialize in the particular photographer the artist or the era if it’s ah it’s ah it’s! Not a contemporary piece of art so you have to find and this goes into the irs requirements. Do you have to find someone who specializes in precisely what it is you’re being given? If it’s an automobile automobile appraisers it’s just like a medical specialist you have to find the right kind of person. Maria, let me ask you about trying to find gifts in-kind i mean, these don’t only come from wealthy people, i don’t want people to be left with that idea. They’d only come from people of wealth. What about ways of ah, finding gifts in-kind in your community? Well, that got me to thinking about not not just the individuals in your community who i might be capable of doing this. But then i started thinking about all of the corporate programs that are in place, for example, that have gifts in-kind as part of their overall corporate social responsibility, so they may have a corporate giving program, a corporate foundation, then they may have a separate set of programming related to in-kind on dh. Then i was wondering, well, how could a non-profit potentially find who are the corporations in my area? Or, you know, i’m a non-profit in need of, um, you know, whatever women’s closing to help the women in our shelter be closed in the winter months or something like that, you know, where could i find that actually found? Sure, there’s multiple websites, but i found a non-profit website that that looked like it would really be helpful front for your listeners to know about and it’s a good three sixty have you? Heard about that one. Oh, i don’t know. It is what is a good three. Sixty dot org’s. Yeah, good. Three. Sixty dot org’s. And so you can go into this if you are a non-profit and you’re, you’re in search of product donations. Um, and you cannot go. You can see the companies that are there. And then, if you’re a company that wants to list your product donations, you can list what you have available on dh. Of course, if you’re an individual that would just like to donate to this particular or a good three sixty dot org’s, you can do that as well. They’re looking for monetary donations. Always. So i just thought it was a pretty interesting, almost like a clearinghouse. It looks like to me. Yeah. Okay. Well, that’s, why you’re our die end of dirt cheap and free. Anything else you found out there about trying to find these types of gif ts? Um uh, i was thinking about this might be more suitable for organizations that are, you know, related to being near the water or maritime or marine environment organizations. But, you know, i have touched upon yacht’s in the past. And trying to figure out, you know, yacht owners and so forth. But, you know, sometimes there will be people who would like to actually donate their yacht, just like people would want to donate a car supposed to try to sell it on their own. So boatinfoworld dot com would allow you to search by state or county or zip code for a list of boat owners near you. So, you know, if we have anybody in the, you know, marine related industry listening to the call, they might want to check out boatinfoworld dot com to get a list of boat owners. Um and it could be something that they would want to start cultivating relationships with those individuals getting them and involved in cultivation events, etcetera. You always go the marine wear because you have a sailboat. I know you don’t have in-kind wave that in dahna that’s. Ok, you are you donating your sailboat? No, not anytime soon, you know? Okay, you work quick. Answer that too. Okay? Okay. Where? L should we go with this? What if in terms of well, i’m sorry? Was there anything more about finding potential gifts? In-kind or is we? Exhausted that. Um then i start thinking about real estate, and i was wondering, well, how would you find out if you want it to proactively find if there is real estate, that could be potential for donation? And i was thinking, well, i guess if you got involved in developing a solid relationships with realtors in your area or, you know, even the banks, um, that, you know, unfortunately these last few years, we’ve seen such high foreclosure rates and so forth there might be some opportunity there if you have conversations with bankers in your community or realtors to find out about some potential properties that could become available, you know, before as a donation. All right, we have to go out for a couple minutes, we come back, i have a couple of tips about real estate gifts that marie is talking about, and we’ll keep going on gif ts in-kind stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation, really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. I’m peter shankman, author of zombie loyalists, and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, maria simple. Hey there, what would i say in jersey? What up? How you doing? Yeah, doing that’s just yeah, i was born in jersey and i was raised there, so i don’t like that that kind of organized crime overtone around new jersey, but sopranos obviously hit that home. A couple of things that i wanted to reinforce about real estate that that you have brought up real estate can be a very, very good gift for non-profits it can also be a really lousy gift. You have to do your due diligence around real estate and basically it’s the same as if you were buying a home or condor coop do the same too diligence before you put that charity name in the oppcoll the the chain of title so you want to do an environmental assessment phase one. If that raises any issues, then you have to go to a face to assessment if the land has buildings on it or a home, whatever you want to make sure that the building is all in code. So there’s there’s that kind of an inspection, a building inspection title search to make sure that there wasn’t there isn’t some defect in the title, basically all the things you would do as i said that you, if you were, if you were buying the place to yourself, whether it’s got dahna buildings on it or not before you took ownership of a piece of property, you want to make sure that it’s clean in all those ways environmentally title code and building inspection wise. Oh, and if you do all that, then you can end up with a really valuable gift of real estate. So you you bring up an interesting point. I hadn’t really thought about that chain of title that you just mentioned hyre so if i’m understanding you correctly, does that mean if if somebody were to approach an organization let’s say while they’re alive and they say, you know, i’ve got this undeveloped piece of land we want to leave, too. I would like to donate to your non-profit organization, and if you decide to say pay well, great and take that piece of wind and then immediately sell it and let say it’s sold within, you know, three months time, and if you didn’t go through maybe something in the environmental assessment and then somebody down the line says, wow, i can’t believe x y z non-profit, uh, ever owned this piece of land it happens to have had, you know, contamination on it or whatever you’re saying, it could end up coming to bite you in from almost like a pr perspective if your name’s somehow attached to it. This’s like a law school exam there’s a bunch of things in the inn. That hypothetical you just gave me? Yep. Pr. Yes, but i think even potentially worse than that. Although pr can be pretty bad. There’s a potential for legal liability. If it’s if it’s an environmental mess, then all the owners in the past and i’m not environment the lawyer, but i know a little bit a very little about it all. The all the owners in the past are potentially liable for not having cleaned it up or possibly for having contributed to the mess. So and that applies to individuals to so yeah, that’s. This is why we do environmental assessments. You can. You can. Get in some really sticky legal trouble if they’re turns out later on a couple of owners later or something to be an environmental problem and, you know, you didn’t know about it, you didn’t insure against it, things like that. Go ahead. I i was just wondering, what about, in the case of somebody who is willed, a piece of land or a property that had some sort of an environmental issue from years ago? Let’s let’s, you know, think about somebody who may be owned a family run gas station for a number of years, or something like that, or on oil related business oil tanks or something, and then the spouse dies. The person continues to all the remaining spouse, continues to own the property, has no heirs and decides to leave it in her will to a non-profit so then i’m wondering what the impact is mean in this case kayman non-profit to say no, we don’t want it no, thank you. Yeah, again. Sounds like a law school, hypothetical, by the way, i do recognize you turning the tables on me, asking me questions on guy, and i don’t appreciate it, so you may not. Reaching your four with me? Yes, thie the amount of time that you have tio renounce a gift. I’m pretty sure that’s what it’s called in a will varies from state to state it’s typically ninety days or, you know, maybe longer for any beneficiary of a gift by will to turn it down. You don’t have to accept something that’s in a will. So if in your hypothetical the non-profit would want to do its due diligence around that real estate before it accepted the gift, and within the time period that it can still turn it down, if it doesn’t want it. The only thing that came out of your earlier one was you said the the charity sells the real estate that’s a whole other issue. If it’s sold within three years of the time of the date of the donation, then that has implications for the donor’s charitable deduction. The donor’s charitable deduction gets reduced because if the charity unloads, i’m using an unkind word, but i’m not using a loaded word but gets rid of that gift within three years of the date of donation. Then it’s presumed that the donation was not part of their charitable mission not within their charitable mission and therefore that the irs goes back to the donor who claimed the donation and that and the deduction associated with it possibly years earlier and reduces it from a fair market value to a cost basis. Don’t a deduction on that could be a huge difference between what it costs the donor to get something and what the market value of it was when they made the gift so big implications if charity does not use a gift if does not use a gift for at least three years, i have to go out in about a minute. Maria so i kind of took over your segment, but but you were asking me questions. So it’s your fault? Um, well, no, i mean, you know, you’ve given us so much food for thought, really? And i think, you know, the bottom line is you really have to be able to, you know, seek out the right appraisers, seek the advice of financial and law professionals when you’re going to be getting any sort of a significant gift. Ah, oven in-kind gift any non-cash related gift that you really do need todo your homework and and and know what what to look for here, i think it’s, good stuff. There are a couple of liars publications that will help you publication five twenty six, which is called charitable contributions, and also publication five sixty one, which is about gifts in-kind and those qualified appraisals and qualified appraisers i was talking about. Okay, maria, we got to leave it there. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, tony maria simple are doi end of dirt cheap? You’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and on twitter she’s at maria simple. I’m pre recorded this week, so can’t do riel live listener love by city and state, but the love still goes out of course live listener loved everybody listening live on this day podcast pleasantries, too, are over ten thousand, whatever you do in painting a house, washing dishes, driving subway, ing, walking, running, tread, milling, elliptic, politicizing whatever you’re doing podcast pleasantries, toe all those listeners and affiliate affections to our am and fm station listeners throughout the country. Korso, of course, just the latest of many affiliate affections out to all those am and fm terrestrial listeners next. Week get creative poetry and other arts in your meetings and events with lissa piercy. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Where in the world else would you go pursuant, you’ll raise pillowcases more money. I’m not talking those accent pillows that you toss on your couch. I’m talking those twelve foot long pregnancy body pillows that fill a queen size bed where your husband doesn’t fit anymore, filled with money. Pursuant dot com, our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by diner russell, while susan chavez is on maternity leave. On our music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and big ring. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts, tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.