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Nonprofit Radio for November 5, 2010: Pass the Cup to Corporations & Fund Accounting Software Review

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Compliance. Board relations. Fundraising. Technology. Volunteer management. Accounting. Finance. Marketing. Social media. Investments.

Every nonprofit faces these issues and big nonprofits have experts in each. Small and medium size nonprofits have Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts throughout the country join Tony to take on the tough issues facing your organization.

Episode 16 of Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio for November 5, 2010

Tony’s Guests:

John W. Hicks, CFRE, President and C.E.O. of J.C. Geever, Inc. Mr. Hicks shares techniques to develop your corporate sponsorship strategy and build relationships so you can ask for corporate support with credibility and confidence

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Scott Koegler, editor, Nonprofit Technology News. Scott, our regular tech contributor, returns with product reviews for this back-office necessity. Those in the know recognize that proper accounting is critical to keeping your board, IRS and others looking over your shoulder, satisfied. He’ll review packages like FUND E-Z, AccuFund, Quickbooks and others.

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Here is the link to the podcast: 017: Pass The Cup To Corporations & Fund Accounting Software

When and where: Talking Alternative Radio, Friday, 1-2pm Eastern.

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Here is a link to the podcast: 043: Pass the Cup to Corporations and Fund Accounting Software Review.
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No. Durney welcome tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host tony martignetti welcome to the show today little shout to ah, larry bloom, who just left the studio. If you have never listened to the divorce our with larry bloom, you should he proceeds this show every week, and if you want to see pictures of larry brew bloom, you can go to the facebook page for my show. Actually, larry is too humble to have pictures of his own eyes that his own facebook page to have his own ah pictures up. But you could see pictures of larry on this show’s facebook page and give the address for that later on. She’ll shout teo! Larry bloom last week it was i’m looking, i’m looking feature savvy strategies for your search. We had our job seeker and resident recruiter paula marks helping the job seeker leonora leonora, who is going to come back on the show, helping her make the move from for-profit to non-profit career. And then after that, it was how to cripple your career in five easy steps you’ll remember that was my pre recorded interview with robert sharpe from the national conference on philanthropic planning we were all about career last week this week, pass the cup to corporations, techniques to develop your corporate sponsorship strategy and build relationships so you can ask for corporate sponsorship support with credibility and confidence. My guest is going to be john hicks. John is the president and ceo of j c geever and after john joins us, then we’re going to talk about fund accounting software. Our tech expert scott koegler, editor of non-profit technology news, returns to the show, and he has product reviews for this backoffice necessity. Those of you who are in the know know, recognize is that proper accounting is critical to keeping your board, the irs and others who may be looking over your shoulder. Satisfied and scott will have reviews of several of the popular and recent fund accounting software packages between the guests at tony’s. Take two, i’ll have news from your irs, the internal revenue service, the nice people at irs that’s, not the news, but they are nice people, and i’ll have some news from them and also more about the next-gen charity conference, which i’ll be speaking at this. Month in new york city. That’s on tony’s, take two. All of that is on this show this week. I’m very glad you’re joining us. We are live this week. Stay with me for this ninety second break. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call us ed to one, two, nine, six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom, too. One, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Hyre durney. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Dahna welcome back to the show, i’m tony martignetti, the host of tony martignetti non-profit radio we’re talking now about corporate sponsorships past the cup to corporations. My guest is john hicks he’s, the president and ceo of j c geever you’ll find jason geever at j c geever dot com and geever spelled g e e v e r. The company was founded in nineteen seventy five and provides cost effective and creative guidance and support designed to help non-profit institutions assess and master fund-raising challenges, the firm provides consulting, management and training services all in support of organizations of every size. Again, the web addresses jacey geever dot com john hicks is president and ceo of the firm, and i’m very glad that his work brings him back to the show. John, welcome back. Thank you. Pleasure to have you back. We’re talking about corporate sponsorships, but before we get into the sponsorships let’s talk about corporation fund-raising generally sort of broad view had his corporation fund-raising breakdown well, corporate philanthropy generally falls into two categories. There’s is the general corporate giving programs that you’ll come across and that’s basically were a corporation sets aside money and a budget. And they give it away, and then you have corporate foundations were, or corporation may incorporate its own separate foundation, and they give money through that foundation. So there’s, usually a couple of channels of funding you can access, and we’re talking about the former today, the more the sponsorship type. Oh, absolutely wartime, my sponsorship. We’re talking about corporate contributions budgets, and when a non-profit is, well, actually, you’re first let me remind people that we’re live today and let me give the number to call if you’d like to call in and talk to. John asked a question for him. Our number is eight, seven seven for eight xero, for one, two, zero, eight, seven, seven for eight xero for one to xero sorry about that interruption, john. A non-profit looking to get some sponsorship dollars. What do they really offer the corporation? Have they figure that out? I think the any non-profit that’s, doing a good job of securing corporate sponsorships is first and foremost thinking about where the non-profit has visibility, where has reach of what good it does in the community, these air, all three aspects, if you will, of corporate sponsorship that you have to think like a corporate e-giving officers thinking, okay, if i’m a corporate giving officer, first of all, i have to justify our contributions to our shareholders, so one way i can do that pretty easily is to say that we’re investing dollars with charities that have reached two constituencies where maybe we want to enhance or increase our visibility, and the answer brand could very well be local ahs wells national can be local, it can be national eso first of organizations need to think entrepreneurially about this, they also have to think about doing good. I mean corporations, by and large one investor dollars where the dollars were goingto a complice, some good for end user. So you’re thinking about who are the end users and how are they benefitting from our work and therefore the corporation can have an association with our good results. And then i think the other thing that charity needs to think about is what other kinds of opportunities they may have to involve the corporation in tony, if i had to pick one hot topic for everyone to think about is, how can you involve corporate employees as volunteers? This’s something you’re seeing across the board in corporate philanthropy, companies are looking for opportunities to get their employees involved with charities. So the organization really needs to be thinking about how the employees can get involved in the event that that they’re asking for the sponsorship of somehow what could be an event. You can create a something pretty simple where you could have employees come in and mentor kids get involved with families. I mean, some some charities, like habitat for humanity, they have a great belt in mechanism because you can re employees and then build house houses or things like that. Ah, some charities have to think a little more out of the box, if you will. You know, how might we bring employees in, for example, for a day and have them work with our constituents it’s given the employees of valuable experience but it’s also really great for your constituents, showing that there are people who really care and in just a minute we have left you’re seeing more companies focus on this, a zoo condition of sponsorship. Well, it’s it’s increased over the years. I think it was a few years back, mckenzie and company did a survey of the corporate sector in the us, and they found that companies that had volunteer employees volunteer programs had a hyre hyre ants retention rate in companies that didn’t so it’s certainly something that’s really coming to vote in the last two years in corporate america, we’re going to take a break, and my guest is john hicks, president ceo of j c geever we’re talking past the cup to corporations all about sponsorships, corporate sponsorship, we’re live today calling number is eight seven seven for eight xero for one to xero please stay with us co-branding dick dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding you’re listening to the talking alternate network get in! Nothing. Cubine hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 at aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m, we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on job strategies and networking. Come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelve at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair. Intending empty 3 pm. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one, bonem. I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness can help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join joshua margolis, fitness expert two one two eight sixty five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w died mind over matter. N y c dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio with john hicks. We’re talking about corporate sponsorships, and during that break, we we gotta call. So let’s, uh, let’s. Start with that call. We have. Abigail, are you there? Abigail? Yes. Thanks for joining us. Where you calling from and what’s your organization like i’m calling from indiana. And i have a small non-profit dance company. And i’m developing a program to try to bring workshops, dance workshops into world schools, and i i want it to be free to the school. I want to fully fund it and offer it to the school systems as an after school program. My question is ahead. White research, the appropriate corporations to target both nationally and locally. I think both arts and education are hot topic and especially toe bring it to rural areas. But i’m just not sure where to start in terms of finding the appropriate corporations. Yes, sir. John. How does abigail find the right places to approach? Well, i’m gonna go with two. Resource is, for starters, abigail, you can simply use the foundation directory online, which you can probably get toe a cooperating collection, which is a public library. In your community that would have access to the foundation center’s database as part of that data base, they have information, i believe it’s on fifty five hundred corporate giving programs. And you can even research those corporate programs by types of products that they produce, where they have operations. So you can think about the communities where you want to take your program and find companies that have a geographic interest. So that’s one area or one type of reason should also be able to search by arts and education. John, you can search by arts and education. This’s what we have to remember when it comes to research is that a lot of companies have very diverse interests. So you might have a company that is really excited about partnering with a dance program. That’s going into rural in the in the end is that correct on dh? They may have an interest in getting their logo on their visibility out there. So for example, it could be you could go toe. Aah! Major utilities company. I mean, for example, here in the metropolitan area in the york city, you’ll see dance companies that have sponsorship for community. Programming for places like con ed, a son and verizon they’re not necessarily in the business of the arts, but they certainly reach a lot of consumers. So using the foundation directory online is a great place to start because the information’s already there it’s segment that and you’ll have a library in whose trained to help you. So go to the foundation center website, foundation center dot org’s, and from there you can find a cooperating collection near you that has access to that database, and you can use it at that library free of charge. And you said there was a second resource. Also, there is a second resource, and you confined this and a lot of public library’s, not everyone, so you’ll have to look around for it. But there’s there’s, a database that’s called corporate affiliations who who owns whom, and this is where you can literally put in zip codes where you’re doing business, and it will show you companies and subsidiaries the companies that are located in those communities. One way i use this, for example, is, if i’m say interested in going toe a bank and i want to get a bank to do a sponsorship with a client organization. I go into that database and i simply want to find out where do they have branch offices. And you can put in zip codes and find out where they have the branch offices. So a couple of good database tools for you to use. Okay, abigail, does that help you out? Yes. That’s. Very helpful. Thank you very much. Very welcome. Thanks for calling. Okay, thank you. Bye bye. And, john, while we were answering abigail’s questioned you alluded to something that i think is a distinction may be that we want to make. I asked you, you know, can you specifically search for arts and education? But this is not like corporate foundation philanthropy where there’s a specific there could be more specific targeted purposes, probably around the company’s interests. Then there are around. Then we’re going to find around sponsorship activities. Is that right? The foundation’s going team or the corporate foundation e-giving more focused than the the corporate sponsorship philanthropy typically that’s the case. Tony it’s. A safe assumption. Okay, thank you. What types of events or or don’t even have to be events, but what types of programs? Things might non-profits find that are viable for for sponsorship opportunities. Well, you mentioned the first well, the first one you mentioned, which is his events, and you’ll see that a number of non-profits use special events is an opportunity for sponsorship and that’s a great gately activity. Why? Because first of all, you’re guaranteed to bring people together where the company’s gonna have some visibility. It’s a great social event, it’s a great way to network and have give corporate employees a hands on flavor of the institution, so special events are always, you know, probably top of mind for most charities, but certainly volunteer activities. You know, if you can have ah, get a company to sponsor a day at your charity where they bring in an employee team and maybe they’re going to help you spruce up your your your space or, you know, do some hands on work with kids and families that’s a great way of introducing yourself to a corporation, and you’re giving them some value as well and terrific visibility and terrific absolute kind of value that they’re looking for. How do you know how much to ask for and there’s a bit? Of an art to that, um, with most corporations, if you think about the company is being i think of of cos tony’s is being basically three layers at the bottom layer, you have sales and service, and these are field representatives and employees who are goingto have high touch in the community, and a lot of times those employees are given an opportunity to make small contributions to a charity. It might be a few hundred dollars. It might be a thousand or two thousand dollars. Typically, this is where you’re selling someone a table or tickets one event. The next layer up would be the supervisor’s for sales and service might be vice president level folks inside a company and they may have sign off on contributions. May be up to a level of five to ten thousand, and then if you go one level above that the office dafs of the ceo, executive, vice president plus and then you could get in the much larger contributions it’s a little bit like a board game. Versatile. It depends. Were can you access the company? I mean, you know, where is your contact? Wth the court if the ceo of the company is your next door neighbor. You can go borrow a cup of sugar and answer twenty five thousand dollars, i suppose. But ah, latto shoretz with people living in scarsdale or greenwich, i’m not family with other wealthy. Well, san francisco, you know certain neighbourhoods in san francisco, and i’m sure there are lots of neighborhoods like that in the midwest. I’mjust not personally acquainted with them, but you have to be living in one of those places to have a neighbor like that. Well, they have a neighbor, but she may have access to yoon seo’s. We all come from somewhere. So yeah, that’s the way i look at it, but but realistically, a lot of charity start with a small contribution that’s a gateway gift, as i call it, and that can then lead to larger opportunities down the road. Because you mentioned earlier that using the directory that you recommended for our caller, that you’ll look maybe to see where the local where the where the national bank has local offices, so the local branch office might be the person’s only only point of contact by necessity there, starting at that point, banks are pretty easy, because you can go into a branch and you can talk to a branch manager and that’s a great place to start the contribution. You can also look at retailers. Um, you take any of your major retailers, and if they have a presence in the local community, you can talk to a store manager a lot of times. Tony, when we’re using a directory like director of corporate affiliations, it’s where you may have this mysterious widget factory on the outskirts of your town, and you’re wondering while g, what do they do? And they don’t get very much money, but if you get a director of corporate affiliations and you look up that company, you might find out hey there, subsidiary of dupont and all of sudden there’s a big parent company there that can make a much larger contribution even if you don’t have an access suppose you don’t know anybody inside that widget company or inside the bank, even at the local branch level, you know, i presume you still should give it a shot, right? Absolutely. I mean, you know, it’s like wing gretzky said you missed one hundred percent of the shots. You don’t take i think the question is, who do you who do you contact and best companies have someone who’s in charge of community affairs or public relations, and these are good people to start with because they’re thinking about visibility, and they’re thinking about touch with the community and that’s what they’re there for. So think of it is you’re bringing them an opportunity, and when you’re talking to them, you want your you’re asking mt to be appropriate with what it is you can offer them in return. Typically you want teo have an ask amount that is appropriate, given your relationship. This is why a good strategy is having several opportunities walking in and saying we can do this for a thousand dollars what we could do this for twenty five thousand very similar to individual fund-raising right? If if you’re asked, you typically ask for at different levels for different opportunities that you know, appeal to an individual donor sze obviously it’s parallel for for this kind of sponsorship philanthropy, exactly, you’re going to present them with a menu, and maybe you helped him select what would be the most appropriate place for them to start i’m with john hicks he’s, the president and ceo of j c geever, which you’ll find at j c geever dot com. We’re talking about corporate sponsorship on tony martignetti non-profit radio, the number to call if you’d like to call into John is 8:7 74 eight xero for one to zero john after this relationship has been has gotten far enough along and the company has said yes what should the non-profit be expecting from this relationship well there’s going to be expectations in both directions i mean you certainly are within your right isn’t non-profit have expectations beyond the cheque in terms of the company is going to be supportive of your work and maybe they can help provide you with visibility but of course they’re going to have expectations of you and this is where you find of saying with any kind of a contribution before you cashed the check always read the letter make sure that you’re going to be able to meet their conditions and meet their expectations when it comes to visibility you know what sort of things are typical that you see and it’s typically they wantto they wantto have approval in press releases they will want it specified or want to specify how their logo should be displayed. You know, things like that are pretty straightforward. Are there some things that you might have to think twice about? Sure, i’ve seen corporations you know, come in and say, for example, they may want access to a mailing list where they may are exactly are they? You know, they may want to have an opportunity to speak at an event and, you know, does this’s why? As in my experience, certain charities i’ve worked with as they raise more, more money from corporations began to do things like developed gift acceptance policies. What kind of companies will we accept contributions from water, the conditions of acceptance? So in the beginning, you’re probably playing a little more by year, but once you become a popular charity, you need to really think about, you know, number one, how do you want that corporate in premature placed on the work that you d’oh? And also you have to be mindful that you may be balancing a lot of different relationships and you want to make sure that you’re meeting the needs of all of your donors? If you promise something, the one that you’re not promising to something, someone else can create problems, or there needs to be a very good reason why it was. It was sponsorship at a different level or something like that, right? And you draw another very interesting parallel between this type of fund-raising and individual fund-raising, and that is the gift acceptance policy. I’ve said. I’m not familiar with it on the corporate sponsorship side, but it makes perfect sense if you’re going to make this a routine activity. What what other types of, um, parameters, maybe even approval levels should be in the the, uh, the acceptance policy approval levels. I mean, some some charities, you know, fundamentally have regulations were its own board of directors have to sign off on a corporate sponsorship at a certain level. I’ve seen that. And after the fact let’s say it is an event because that sounds like that’s the most, most common the event has happened, everyone seems very happy. How do you appropriately to say thank you to the to the to the company? Well, you know, beyond simply saying thank you, which you’d be surprised a lot of us kind of forget to do that in the very risky in the heat of the battle. Altum i think it’s a question of ongoing communication yet treat, treat the corporate sponsors a stakeholder, you know, once they put money on the table and there’s mean, they’re there to support the work that you do, so make him part of it. It means that you may want to visit with them a couple of times over the course of the year following and just keep them in the loop as you would with any other dahna as you would with an individual and yeah, you don’t wantto treat the people as, i guess, sort of, you know, just cogsa at the corporation mean, treat the treat the people who we’re at your event and who approved your sponsorship like people, as you would with individuals, what would you do so you can invite them to events? May be that the company’s not sponsoring your your messages, you want to keep them close? Absolutely let’s turn a little bit. Tio corporate foundation philanthropy. Last time you were on the show was it was july thirtieth for anybody wants toe. Look back to that. We talked a lot about private foundation giving, um, aren’t there sort of parallels, but also maybe some contrasts between corporate foundation philanthropy and private foundation philanthropy and really, in just a minute and a half, we have left. You want to close that loop a little bit? Sure, corporate foundations will operate very much the same way as a private foundation, you’ll still have to send the proposal. The proposal will end up being voted on by a board where it’s different is they’ll, you know, it’s not gonna surprise your corporate foundation is usually interested or has and the mission statement work that’s very aligned with the core mission of the creating corporations. So if you get a pharmaceutical foundation, they’re going to be supporting health care. So it’s for seoul making sure that you know you have the right kind of program that matches up with their interests. Some have the corporate foundation will want some visibility, even though it’s a separate entity from from a corporation. Is that right? Yeah, but by and large, it’s goingto work just about the same way as a private foundation. All right, thank you, john. And again, john was on july thirtieth and talked a lot about private foundation philanthropy, and we have to leave it there. My guest has been john hicks, president ceo of j c geever. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio. After this break, we’ll be joined by the show’s tech expert scott koegler, editor at non-profit technology news, and we’re going to be talking about fund-raising software. Stay with me. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. E-giving cubine are you feeling overwhelmed and the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact durney at monte m o nt. Y at r l j media. Dot com i really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two eight six five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w dot mind over matter. Y si dot com. Cerini talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 at aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m, we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on job strategies and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelfth, at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair, contending enter 3 pm. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one bonem. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio, where we’re always talking big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent in a moment, i’ll be joined by our tech expert, scott koegler want to take a few moments for tony’s? Take two this week. News from your i r s the people at internal revenue service love you and they host free one day seminars throughout the country that are for small and midsize non-profits tto learn how to, and this is a quote, keep their tax exempt status and comply with tax obligations and, quote, and the next one of these is coming up in phoenix, arizona, on december seventh and also on december eighth. But it’s a one day forum ondas i said they’re free and i have information about that on my block. Ggot m p g a d v dot com also there you can see a draft of the new form nine ninety if you don’t know what the form nine ninety is you. Ah, you need to do sametz occassion and you can start at the blogged, but you probably do and if you want to see this year’s new nine, ninety in draft form i have a link to that there, and also you can sign up for what the irs calls they’re exempt organization updates, i get them and sometimes i passed that information on to you, but you can have those email directly to you. Cut out the middleman don’t stop listening to the show, but just lower the volume when i talk about the next news from your irs, you can get those e mail directly to you and again there’s a link to that on my block mpg a dv dot com also want to share with you that i’m speaking at the next-gen charity conference on november eighteenth, the conferences november eighteenth and nineteenth. Um, i’m doing podcast interviews for this show on the eighteenth on the nineteenth, i’m hosting a workshop from eleven to one pg and so me planned giving and social media and i can get you twenty percent off the whole conference both days because your listener to this show again, go to my blogged, or go to the facebook page for the show and you get information on that twenty percent discount the facebook pages at facebook dot com forward slash tony martignetti non-profit radio and that is tony’s take two for friday, november fifth. I’m joined now by our tech guru expert scott koegler scott’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find it and p tech news, dot com there’s also a link to that site on the show’s facebook page, because scott is a regular contributor and very welcome, very glad to have having back. Scott, welcome back. Well, thanks, tony. Good to be here. Thank you for joining us. And this week we’re talking about fundez accounting software. What? What is fund-raising scott? Good. Good question. I have fund accounting is something it’s very specific to non-profits mostly because non-profits generally have to account for some of the some of their money in terms of the funds or the designated accounting categories. So if they, uh, if a donor or a particular the event is is organized to put together a fun to handle the particular need, those going a little buckets before big buckets, i guess. And all those individual buckets need to be accounted for in terms of right income. That’s been earned on dh expenses. Disbursements that have been made at that fund level, right? And you know, if those are designated funds that were given by a particular contributor, that contributor probably wants some kind of accounting to say, okay, i gave you i gave you this amount of money, what did you do with it? Where did they go? Yes, what i gave you one hundred thousand dollars are for fifty thousand dollars in perpetuity or first set number of years and exactly is your point is they want to see the management of that money and it’s benefit to the people that your organization supports, right? So we need to be able to account for this for all these different funds as donors designate them, and you’re your review eyes the review out now or it’s coming out soon. Wait, just posting it today on newsletter goes out on tuesday, but the reviewers up online so, folks one look at that that’s n p tech news dot com alright on dh how timely we are. We’re getting a quick little pre announcement, but from the editor of non-profit technology news, the information goes up full and live later today. And scott, your review breaks down the different software packages, which we’ll get. To you very shortly by their appropriateness for small medium on dh, larger organizations. How do you how do you define those? Or do you are? Do you let people decide on their own which category they fit in? It’s a fluid categorization, if you will. Most of the way that we define them is by talking with the vendors of the software so they know what their capabilities are, what the sizes of their databases can handle and to some extent it’s the price. It also. Okay. Let’s, let’s. Jump in and talk about some of the features of these let’s. Start with the ones for smaller organizations. What’s the what’s. The first one you’d like to talk about. Well, the first one on our list is fundez easy accounting. And you may you may remember from our previous discussion that we talked about donorsearch management fundez he was one of the companies that also provides fund-raising software on. So the two probably work well together, i presume, right? They kind of funnel all of the information into the similar accounting package. Okay, that just for listeners, that show was on september seventeenth. Scott was on previously talking about fund-raising management software. Go ahead, scout. So tell us about the accounting function of fundez easy, right? The this is general accounting as well. A specific accounting for fund management. So, you know, the right up says that it has a an intuitive interface. You know, you would hope at this point that pretty much all of the applications that we use anymore have intuited grantspace the fact that our reviewer look at this and said, yeah, this is one of those is probably significant. This is relatively low price that starts for single user around seven hundred dollars, in addition to the fund specific functions, and also includes accounts payable receivables and general ledger. Okay, so there’s those general accounting functions correct? Is that typical? Do the i’m sorry, did they did they all or most of them include the general accounting functions as well as the fund accounting or not right in general, to be redundant, they used. They include general led to do yes. Okay, i wasn’t sure that was just for fun, deasy. Or generally, all of them. Okay, generally do because the buckets that these funds were put into our general ledger accounting categories, so if our listeners are familiar with general ledger accounting, you know, there’s there’s one thing it’s accounts payable there’s money received and then there’s money allocated for a particular song in this case. Okay, so these thes air able to import and export information from and two other applications, uh, one of the nice things about this. And i think this is fairly fairly generic to most of these again, the purpose is that your funders want to know what happened with the money. S o it’s one thing to look into the fund and say, okay, well, we have a hundred thousand dollars in their fund. The next question is, well, what’s it being used for in here this fundez easy accounting a cz. Well, some of the others have a function called drill down and that’s kind of ah kind of a ticking word for i click on the number and it shows me more detail about okay. Scott scott is acquainted with show he was worked very hard to avoid jorgen jail at that moment cause he defined this drill down function for us, so no need to invoke jargon jail. I know the listeners we’re thinking of it, but no need. The keys are still in my pocket. You know, you’re no need. Yes. Okay, well, sentences of generally short, you’d have been out, but but you avoided it all cost let’s go to another one for small organizations and i’m sure they share a lot of these functions. A cz you’ve mentioned what’s. Another one for small non-profits. Well, the next one i have on my list here, simon. See why am a not for profit accounting software? See? See why m a right. So it sounds like c y a, but it’s not does. It probably does some of the cover your ass ski. Eso is that this’s not cover. You’re asking accounting you would hope so. It actually it does. It does handle fund accounting as well. Simon is one of those companies has been around for quite a number of years in the general accounting and also in vertical environments where they address, you know specific in-kind company okay and again so i don’t confuse the listeners. It’s simon see y m a. I was being a funny boy with c y es. But ask you, by the way, i don’t know. If people know that, but that’s the american standard code for information interchange no, i didn’t know that it’s common knowledge, but i don’t want to put myself in jargon jail okay, enough let’s talk about cyma what not-for-profits accounting software, please it’s specifically have some of the same functionality as as do all of these in terms of fund accounting, what you’ll find is the ability to designate a fund, add funds to it, allocate funds out to specific purposes such as payroll, for instance, you may wanna dedicate designate ten percent of a fund to payroll where, as you know, it doesn’t cover the entire table, but it helps you may want to designate a portion of the fund for purchase of a new photocopier or to the phone bill, something like that so pretty much all of these alliance to do that? Yes, and that is important because there, because when people are given gift and there’s often an administrative costs, which is what, exactly what you’re describing, their administrative costs around administering that gift or that program, and they look and non-profits look for portions of donations to offset the cost of or portions of a cost of the administrative overhead and that’s exactly what you’re talking about. Right? Right, exactly. Half assed again. Do some of these others provide for a function called inter fund transfers on it is. He does what? You what it sounds like it does. It allows you to transfer funds from from one fund to another. This one is a little bit more expensive at twelve hundred dollars for the nonce for-profit accounting software and that that’s the general ledger side. And it also allows you to add additional modules for around six hundred dollars apiece, depending on the module. So those would be a payroll accounts payable. So we begin to see a difference here between fundez. Easy. For instance, an assignment in that fundez easy contains additional modules that are extra costs. With simon. Yes, scott. One of the times you were on, i think it was two times ago way talked about software as a service eyes a cloud computing. Is that the’s that type of packages or these software that you install locally? These are pretty much all locally installed applications. Okay, it’s, uh, accounting software is one of those that most organizations feel proprietary about. They want to keep it within the four walls well, okay, but we did talk about security, um, safeguards that can be made around that cloud computing. But i guess this is just so sensitive that companies don’t bother toe make it that way. You know, that’s one of those things that every company evaluates for themselves. My personal opinion is that security of cloud environments and sass environments is is just fine, but my opinion is not always good enough for the city. So, uh, trend is that about about twenty percent of corporations now you some form of cloud or sas services, but that’s still twenty percent that’s pretty far from everybody and not in this accounting arena. I’m with scott koegler he’s, the editor at non-profit technology news he’s, our regular tech contributor. We’re going to take a break, and when we come back, we’ll look at some packages in this arena for midsize organizations. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 and aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m, we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectured on jobs, try to jeez and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelfth, at aqueduct racetrack. For a Job fair from 10 a m to three p m. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com no. Welcome back to the show i’m with our tech contributor expert scott koegler, the editor at non-profit technology news. Scott um, why don’t we talk some about some of the packages that are intended for slightly larger organization? Sort of mid size? I know quickbooks has as an entry here, right? Quickbooks is obviously an accounting application, and they have one version that they’ve put out, which is called intel into its quickbooks premier non-profit for two thousand eleven it’s obviously a couple of months ahead of time, but it incorporates a lot of the features, but probably many of our listeners are accustomed to and quickbooks being the premiere version it’s got latto interchange has the advanced functionality. It can produce financial statements, sales and sales tax reports and all those available on screen as well as to print, of course. Um, it’s it’s, inexpensive frankly it’s four hundred dollars, which is very well, well, twice for quickbooks premiere of any kind of quickbooks premiere, i believe, for general purposes is right around there for five hundred dollars. Um, but for for people that are used to using quickbooks, this is a natural migration for them to use it. To the non-profit okay, the interface it looks the same is identical. It has just the additional funds accounting portions, you know, give it a way we haven’t talked much about reporting. You alluded to it that reports are important, especially for the donor, but also maybe for auditors come tax time. What’s what’s the robustness of the reporting with this with this with into its quickbooks premiere well into its quickbooks reporting is one of the most flexible than i’ve ever seen and it’s really accessible to people who are not accountants. That’s been one of into its strength is ability, tio provided i don’t know something. I don’t know exactly how many reports they have pre built into the system, but i’m guessing that it’s probably a hundred or so every one of those could be modified and saved as a new report. So it’s really easy to generate reports they’re specific to your needs. Pacific two requests anybody on staff? Yes, directors, donors, whatever and how about support another another where we haven’t talked about yet? What typically is the level of support that user gets? Is itjust online, or is there a call call center? How? Does this generally work support? It varies from one provider to the next to go come anything to female support to online support in person and one of the things you’ll find that differentiates these applications from very small, very large. I’m just going to skip down to some of the larger ones just for reference here koegler mountain, open zsystems and blackbaud are some of the better known applications in non-profit world, and those generally have either onsite training and support or telephone support. So what you’re paying for that their annual support can sometimes amount to nearly as much as the cost of the application, so but the application is twelve hundred dollars twelve hundred dollars for years, probably more than what it really would cost, but probably five to six hundred dollars a year for personal support. But in some cases, you’re getting on sight, you said, right? Right, and those there generally more in terms of installation of training rather than day today question. Okay, but certainly support is something listeners wantto consider when they’re deciding which package is right for them because based on their expertise or lack of in accounting, absolutely you definitely want to have something it’s easy to use and familiar and that’s one of the things that the lower priced applications do provide. Okay, all right, so the quickbooks sounds like something that could be very good for people who are familiar with quickbooks. What’s another one for small and sorry midsize organizations for mid size will see we’ve got the open systems which this’s the open systems traverse and f p i guess an s p s we’re not for-profit i think you’re right now. This one, this one integrates with microsoft office, which makes a really nice you could export into excel directly. Scott, have you gotto have you got an office assistant who’s hungry there or he needs to go out, and i wish i could get way. Just have a minute and a half left. So he or she will be out very soon. Okay, go ahead. Tell us about open system’s. Broken systems. A little bit more expensive. Goes it around two thousand dollars. But it does include quite a few portions to a general ledger accounts payable and payroll dahna peril and it’s. Okay, right. So an organization that has a good sized staff particularly that needs paid her all that that works well for that kind of organization and what’s the numbers on the open systems travers and f p how much does that cost to get in? That starts in two thousand dollars and that’s for single user license. Okay, we’ll play zoho into a multi user. Which, again, for a larger organization, you definitely want to be able to add additional seats. Yeah, and it sounds like all or most of these are scalable. You’ve said a few times, right? Generally, the initial price is for a single user, and additional users are additional cost. Ok, let’s, go. We have to leave it there. And this fund accounting software round up. Thank you very much for joining us. We’ll have you back. Of course. Thanks a lot, tony. Have a great day. My pleasure. Thank you. That’s. Scott koegler are non-profit sorry. R are a software and technology contributor and expert. And he’s. The editor of non-profit technology news, which is at n p tech news. Dot com you want? Thanks, scott. Of course. And also want to thank john hicks, president ceo of j c geever for joining me today. Next week we’re going to talk about board fund-raising fire up your board fund-raising we will be joined by author and authority gail perry and gale is going to reveal proven techniques to motivate your board to step up to a very critical responsibility of theirs. Fund-raising gail is the author of fired-up fund-raising and you’re crazy if you miss that frankly, well, but you’re crazy if you miss today’s show too, but well, you wouldn’t know it because you wouldn’t be listening, so you wouldn’t have me telling you, um, unless maybe, you know from an outside source aside from me, but you’re crazy if you miss that show, i think or any of these, you could get inside or alerts about the show and see where my live appearances are going to be at our facebook page, which is facebook dot com forward slash tony martignetti non-profit radio and also my blawg has information about the show, m p g a d v dot com, the creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is clear meyerhoff line producer and the owner of talking alternative broadcasting, sam liebowitz and our social media is by regina walton of organic social media. If you like our fan page, please click the like button so that regina will know that she’s doing a good job on the facebook page. But she manages our social media generally. This is tony martignetti, the host of tony martignetti non-profit radio, always big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Join me next friday, my guest will be gayle perry that’s, one to two p m eastern here on talking alternative dot com. Being a good ending, you’re listening to the talking alternate network. Get me thinking. E-giving. I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two eight six five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w died mind over matter. N y c dot com durney this is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo i will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 and aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on jobs. Try to jeez and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelve at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair 10AM2 three p m for more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one. Sametz are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Bonem you’re listening to the talking alternative network.

Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio for October 22, 2010

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Compliance. Board relations. Fundraising. Technology. Volunteer management. Accounting. Finance. Marketing. Social media. Investments.

Every nonprofit faces these issues and big nonprofits have experts in each. Small and medium size nonprofits have Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts throughout the country join Tony to take on the tough issues facing your organization.

Episode 14 of Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio for October 22, 2010

Tony’s Guest:

Larry Sharpe, Director of Neo-Sage: Smart Sales Training Strategies to Kick-Start Your Fundraising

Larry’s bio:

Larry Sharpe has a varied background which began in the United States Marines. He’s worked as an English teacher, an English Coordinator for the Japanese Government, and a marketing rep for the Armed Forces Radio & Television Network. In addition to starting two family businesses, he has also worked with former NYC Police Chief, Bill Bratton, in corporate sales of Pre-employment Screening & Background Investigations, and a multitude of other sales positions. Now, with Neo-Sage, he is passing all that knowledge and experience on.

He’s the Director of Special Projects for the World Energy Forum. He is also a Guest Instructor at Columbia’s Graduate School of Business and the New York Fashion Institute of Technology, as well as the host of The Ivory Tower Internet Radio Program.

Larry has a Bachelor’s Degree in Anthropology from the University of Maryland and a Certification to teach English from the International Center of Language and Culture. He lives with his wife and two daughters in New York City.

Click here for a hard copy.

When and where: Talking Alternative Radio, Friday, 1-2pm Eastern.

You can subscribe on iTunes and listen anytime, anyplace on the device of your choosing.

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Thanks.

Here is the link to the podcast: 010: Sales-Based Fundraising Strategies
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Cerini welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host tony martignetti what a coincidence i found this show if you think you’re non-profit is left out left out of consulting conversations left out in terms of fees that get charged press and media if you generally feel that you don’t get the attention that your small and midsize non-profit deserves, you have a home here at tony martignetti non-profit radio last week was an archive edition because i was at the national conference for philanthropic planning, doing interviews and talk later about that on tony’s take two, but last week we had regina walton, or from organic social media, and she explained and shared with us why you should be online. How to get started online on how to manage your non-profits reputation online also in last week’s edition John murcott from karma 4:1 one he shared how smart and simple online fund-raising khun build your relationships and unlock dollars for your non-profit this week, smart sales training strategies to kick start your fund-raising my guest is larry sharp, director of neo-sage, and he is going to share with us corporate sales lessons to help your non-profits fund-raising it’s a full we’re for a full hour of fund-raising this show with larry sharp and around the half hour on tony’s take, too, which is exactly at one thirty two. I’m going to share some notes from the national conference on philanthropic planning and a lot of exciting, interesting interviews at that conference last week, which is in florida, and they’ll be coming up on shows in the future, and i’ll talk a little about those on tony’s. Take two and also, ah, conference that i have coming up next-gen charity conference in november. All that on tony’s, take two after this break, larry sharp for a full hour of fund-raising stay with me, talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Oppcoll is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call us ed to one, two, nine, six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom at two one two nine six four three five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com offgrid dahna altum welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m joined now by larry sharp, larry’s director of neo-sage on the web that’s n e o hyphen s a g dot com and he’s going to share smart sales training strategies to kickstart your fund-raising ah, full hour of fund-raising text tips from larry stage larry is director of neo-sage, an influence training center in new york. His clients learn how to sell fund-raising network and influence effectively he’s, the director of special projects for the world energy forum and a guest instructor at columbia’s graduate school of business, and i’m very glad that larry’s practice brings him to the show today into the studio. Welcome, larry. Thank you very much, madam. Thank you, larry. Sales for non-profits sales has sales and sometimes marketing have sort of a pejorative connotation. Negative connotation should should non-profits be thinking about salesmanship. That’s ah that’s a great question and the reality is you’re right most people who work in the not non-profit world there are their helpers there healers they’re crusaders there, find the right word. They went to the right thing and save the world that’s great, but the problem with that is that’s, often directly in directly against the idea of making money in business. So while you absolutely need these people there’s no non-profit world without them, you’ve gotta have them. You also have to have the money part. You’ve gotta have the business guy or the money guy somewhere in there and that’s, the sales and marketing guy, which often is a problem, you’re right, they’re not profit world worries about that, so their answer usually is well, i’m so passionate about this problem is issue this concern, i’m going to try to somehow infuse the person on the of the phone or in front of me or through my letter with that same passion, and please, please, please give me money, please give me money because we’re all passionate about this cause that’s correct? The problem is that is traditional begging for money, which, if you’re very well known, i have a large marketing budget or big footprint that may be okay when you are small not-for-profits nobody cares. As sad as it is, if it isn’t my issue, i don’t care, and if i have enough mind to give i probably already have a larger not-for-profits e-giving tio so you as ah not non-profit have to change the way you think this is very hard. Let me try to get this out so that the non-profit people here don’t don’t have a heart attack what stands in their way, they have to stop thinking that they are begging for money. They have to stop thinking that they are enforcing the agenda of their donors. They’re enforcing the agenda of the people who want this issue will concern dealt with if you’re trying to take take kids to art if that’s your charity for trying tio save a certain type of animal if you’re trying to move energy in a certain direction, whatever it is you have to act like hey, i’m out there doing this you want it done someone’s gonna pay for it, it’s gotta be you. I’m enforcing your agenda, i’m enforcing you’re well, i’m doing what you want me to do. I’m actually not non-profit i’m not a charity, i’m an association. I’m like a lobbyist, i’m in association trying to get your agenda push trying to get your will move forward now i’m gonna have to change the name of the show. Now to what? Tony martignetti associate association radio i don’t love it, they don’t know i can’t do that. You’re invested in this, i’m not saying you won’t use those words. Of course you want to still keep the culture of your organization, but your thought process should be we are serving our donor base versus we are serving the actual people that we’re giving the money to or providing a service too. It is an entirely different mindset we’re doing this for you sort of on your behalf? Yes, exactly, it’s a whole different way. If they do that, all the same will happen is their language will change the language would change from things like please give us money to save the kids to hey, you want the kids saved? So we to do that we need x dollars brought us our check so we can do this. You wanted to and of course they’ll use their own language. But that feeling all of a sudden makes me feel like he am part of team, right? You wanted to, we’re in this together we’re doing the work for you because i already said on your behalf, and you hope that this will get the actual donors to not just write the check and walk away what you really want the donor to do is write the check and feel part of the team, so of course, when they do that, they start talking about it, they suck any of the people they volunteer it’s such a better way of moving your you’re non-profit forward, and i’m glad we’ve got a full hour to explore this because absolutely you spend so much time getting a donor’s your you don’t want to have to spend that time again to replace them when they write you just one check or come to just one event and then you never hear from them again or hopefully this doesn’t happen, they don’t hear from you again. Ah, yes, the tight right, the time invested buy-in getting a brand new donor extraordinary. Why i do that multiple times when you don’t need to and the second part is if if they really become part of the team, you don’t have to spend so much time getting the second donor zoho q, you don’t have to spend, so much time getting volunteers, because they’ll help you. My guest is larry sharp, director of neo-sage, and we’re talking a full hour of fund-raising. Larry, of course, is staying with me after this break. I hope you do, too. You couldn’t do anything, including getting thinking things. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, get in. Nothing. Cubine hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 at aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m, we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on jobs, try to jeez and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelve at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair from 10 a m to three p m. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one altum. I really need to take better care of myself if only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up dahna is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join joshua margolis, fitness expert two one two eight sixty five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w died mind over matter. N y c dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. I’m joined by larry sharp, director of neo-sage ennio hyphen s a g e dot com we’re here to find out whether larry really is is he? Is he a new sage? Has he brought sagacious nous to the studio? We’re finding out this hour around fund-raising and he’s already shared. Sort of the wayto reorient your thinking around fund-raising let’s get into some of the details, larry, how can non-profits start too implement a different way of thinking. Let’s just start with they’re just conversations conversation face to face conversations that might have with a donor on the phone let’s not do telemarketing yet, but just on the phone or in an event, how do we re orient the thinking to our conversations? The most important thing we want to talk about? And this is the sad what we don’t do what most not-for-profits there was discussed the need they spent a lot of time talking about the need. This is a problem. Oh my god! This is a problem. The world is ending. These kids were dying the the fish are dying, the animal’s dyeing the every whatever is dying and bad things are happening while that’s not bad to start, you always wanna end on a positive piece and that’s what isn’t done? What happens is they say the world’s ending oh my god, we have to do something you should help us versus saying the world’s, anybody blah, blah, blah and here’s a success story there’s the critical piece that’s often missing people don’t wanna be part of a problem. They would be part of a solution. So expresses a need to problem kids were sick, animals are dying. Yeah economy’s being destroyed, the environment being destroyed whatever is your issue. But you know what? Here’s some success we’ve had here’s how we’ve made things better. There is a bright side right here and that gets someone to say really how really? Well, that seems awesome that draws the person in. The problem is we’re so busy trying to show people the need will not give him the positive side of but we’re doing something great. We begin to feel like this is an interesting concept. If you’re always around, you know, poverty and you find some aid workers sometimes you come back from africa or south east asia, some very depressed economy, they come back and they’ll tell you, the world’s ending the world’s full of pain everything’s horrible. No must be around them. Yeah, but they should come back and say the world’s terrible things. But you look what we did. We save twenty five kids, or we save twenty five animals or we, you know, low with the carbon emissions or whatever is your charity, and then everyone goes, wow, that sounds great. So the critical piece and a conversation is discussed the issue. But then talk about the positive things that are happening. Show the success stories show the light that makes me want to come to you. Yeah, and i think that second part you’re right is not emphasized. A lot of fundraisers will say that the hook the need is the hook, right, and it sounds like years indeed it is. But go a step further and b positive how you’re helping toe solved that means yes, the issue is people think and this is a big problem. They think that donors give because they want to save the x. No, i always give for very different reasons all different types of reasons, most of them very selfish. Most of them are very selfish what people give and people don’t get that they want to feel powerful, they want to feel good, they want to they want to feel to doing something, they want to get recognition things of that sort that’s a very big reason why people give it’s not just because they want to save the whales will save the kids are saying the environment, it could be because they want to feel good, you know, an interesting story i was excuse me, i work for a couple non-profits and one of them was doing a training course for smaller non-profits and doing a training course, one person was upset and the person said because when i do this event, this person wants to come and have a booth at my event and sell his book, and i said, okay, while you upset well, you know, he don’t makes twelve thousand dollars, but you know what? I don’t want him doing this and making money, blah, blah i said, ok, he gives you twelve thousand dollars, right? Yes. Why do you care? What do you do at twelve thousand dollars? We do a lot with kids, so why? Do you care? In fact, you know what you should do. Tell him if he wants to be exclusive he’s gotta pay you twenty of rushing about two more people next to him selling books after that’s whatyou d’oh and let three people sell books there and get thirty six thousand dollars and save your kids. We’ll give one guy twenty and save your kids stop thinking the person who gives has to be his passion as you they don’t, they have to write the check. They obviously value your organization if that guy selling books every single year you do this event, he’ll give you twelve thousand dollars every year without complaining. Why you mad? Yeah, right. So what we have to worry about when it comes to our donor base is caring about our donor base, not caring what the people or animals or environment we’re trying to save kayman dahna base making about them. You will see all of a sudden all shoot up the money will just stop coming, right? Well, while you’re thinking about fund-raising i mean, of course, of course against the need and the work is paramount, but fund-raising is a very, very close second to executing our program. Whatever. Yes, some silent. Be very clear about that. Absolutely, this is on ly we’re talking about fund-raising of course, we don’t wantto sacrifice the value of the action of a profit just to make money. Baizman tio no, no, no. You’re absolutely right. Let’s so let’s dive in a little into some detail about direct mail that maybe a piece that’s devoted to fund-raising or it could be a newsletter. Direct mail. What advice do you have around? Absolutely generally speaking, you do not want to ask for that random amount of money more than once a year. So now you’re talking about a direct mail deal, you personalized letter hopefully doesn’t say, dear friend, i mean, i think you’d want the fund-raising pieces to be personalized absolutely that’s that’s the mail that you’re talking about right now, that individualized plans correct, okay? And i really would hope that today’s market there’s print is out there who can easily personalize everything if if you’re listening, you’re seeing yourself. I don’t i don’t have a database like that. Trust me, there are tons of people can personalize your mailing if you do that, you get the mailing out there. You want your your plea to be generally yearly, almost like a membership. You don’t have to use that word if you don’t want to depend upon the culture of your charity. If you are a membership type char to use that word. If not, who cares? Whatever. But you want to ask for the big hit yearly? Well, that’s the five hundred dollars a thousand dollars. Ten thousand dollars whatever that is that’s the one big hit yearly to want from the person that person should feel like i wrote my big check. I’m set. I’m part of team. Not now. Next year’s. Next have to write my bait again. That is an exception here. You can now begin to ask for more money throughout the year. But not the quarterly. You know fund-raising that is really impersonal, really unknowing and has turned many people off and it’s it’s on the it’s on the non-profits schedule. Yes, exactly. Well, that’s. Exactly right. Only perfect. Let me just remind people my guest is larry sharp, director of neo-sage. And we’re spending a full hour with your fund-raising sales training techniques to kick start your fund-raising. Larry, i’m sorry. Go ahead. No, you’re totally right. Tony it’s. The issue here is non-profits or again thinking about themselves so they want to raise money every quarter. Nice, but instead, think about the donor do the once a year you owe me a big hit because you’re part of my members should be part of team. Got it. No problem. Whenever that’s a should be done, i don’t know, depends upon the calendar of the non-profit. But then quarterly you want to do targeted specifically to that individual, for example. Let’s say your your charity deals with i’m gonna make up kids with cancer, right? Whatever. So maybe you decide that these people you figure out through the surveying or asking or internet surveying or check boxes on your mailer. However you decide to get that data, what are they specifically interested in? They’re interested in this piece that piece, this piece. So you say, you know what, what? This year we’re taking the kids who have cancer to disneyworld, whatever that is. And if the raise money for that, send it to those people who checked, you know, make a wish for cancer. Whoever check that one. Those people get that specific mailing saying, please give us money for this specific trip for this specific issue you want us to segment exact perfect word? Yes segment beautiful. I want you to segment on mr hayward. I want you to segment we have george in jail on tony martignetti non-profit radio, but i don’t think this is georgina segment. I think everybody understands segmenting, so there is a reprieve if anybody was wondering, especially since i’m the one who brought the word up so i never i put myself in jargon jail if it doesn’t happen, so keep listening. But that won’t happen. There won’t. Go ahead, please. Miree second, once we do that now what happens is i’m giving because i see a result. I now see what’s happening. I’m due, i’m making a difference and on what i’m specifically interested in yes, i want to see happy kids, you know, before they pass we can shit. Maybe it’s in my family may be someone i know it’s close to me. Maybe i didn’t get something when i was a kid. Whatever it affect me that’s why i care about that. So now i’m going to drop. My thousand dollars provoc woobox whatever that is to help these kids go to disney world now here’s a critical piece. When when the next quarter you asked me for more money. There better be pictures of that trip, the better the details of that trip. I need to see what i did. Outcomes absolutely. I want to see those happy kids. I want to see smiling kids. I want to see him hug and mickey mouse. I want all those things to make me feel good. Because the next court, when you asked me for the next trip, i’ll write another check again and again again. And we are seeing within the past, say, four, five years or so a much greater emphasis on donors learning the outcomes. Yes and charity’s being accountable. And some charities do it quantitatively. I often use example of charity water. They have a very good website where you can see on a global map where your money was spent and how deep the will it well is in the community in south africa that they that they drilled and what the outcome was. How many people in that community we’re help, i mean that’s one example. But it’s a great example. Outcomes krauz yes. And we also than the next piece in this whole concept is we do not want to do what so many charities do and make it broadbased. There are fourteen million children with this problem. Ten thousand kids every day have this ninety thousand whales every year do so. And so whatever. That’s. Nice to maybe start the juices flowing. Right? But you have to make it in individual. Yeah. Where did my money go? Yes. Ninety thousand whales. Which one did my one hundred fifty thousand dollars help? Yes, absolutely. They want to know it was emma. That whale right there. That’s the one. You know, we tagged her and saved her calf. Yes. Thanks to you helping pay for the boat that went out there, did it? Yes. I want to feel that i want to say yeah, that’s my boat. I’d put money on my boat. I better keep paying off. My boat won’t go out there and help the emirs of the world. Of course, we’re talking about this critical segmentation, larry and i just want to remind people that several shows ago we had tim cannon on from mcvicar and higginbotham, which is a print shop on better shop, and they do that type of work and print shops and letter shops generally, as larry said, are sophisticated enough to help you segment your database. Once you’ve gotten the data collected to segment it and that’s really where i’d like to go let’s, spend a few minutes. How do we talk about how we collect this data in order to do the segmentation that you’re recommending? Actually, the print company can assist you? They’re also because maybe if you have a yearly ask or whatever the case may be within your yearly, ask on the sheet where they fill out far from the box, a thousand bucks, two hundred bucks, whatever they’re filling out you also say, and you were interested in check all that apply, and just that right there will have to do it. There’s also something called and ah, i hope it’s not it’s a pearl, a personal earl and out of print shops could do that also where they send it out and you go to a specific website just for them, you know, x charity slash tony m yes. I’ve seen those in direct mail pieces that i’ve gotten there we go click there and you feel your survey out right there, you know, i’m interested in emmett a whale and bobby the fish and jimmy to shark alright, that’s, what i care about whatever the case may be, so you care about as an example, maybe you care about the shark fin soup issue, right? Everyone’s cutting a shark fins off, killing sharks, right? That’s, what you care about, okay, great. So the next time we do a campaign to help, stop that, i can guarantee you’re getting a letter and i want five bucks, but maybe you don’t care about emmett a whale may be care about the sharks, it doesn’t matter. What i’m worried about is what you care about, not what i care about. So a personalized earl on dh, really? Just aside from knowing what that specific donors interested in the charity now knows that that donor is interested enough to go from the mail piece or the email to click through to the personal you are also the we’ve got them we know we have that donor at least at the threshold, yes. Absolutely. And he’s an ex piece. You also find out what pieces are important. T to your your donor base. Let’s say you find that nobody cares about shark fin soup. I’m making it up, right? I have no idea anyone cares but let’s say that you don’t abase you send out your letters, b get a thousand back. We hope you haven’t made doughnuts. I hope so. Right. And out of the thousand ten k about the sharks. Maybe either you shouldn’t publicize him so much. Well, maybe the reverse. Maybe you need a better campaign and get people to care. This gives you some insight in what you’re doing, right? Maybe you should say, you know what? I should stop doing this. I should take take this part of my charity away, give it to a specialized charity because my people don’t care about it. All the reverse. No one cares what i do. And outreach program to get people to understand. This is an important issue. This data is very, very valuable. Especially thie example. You just mentioned it’s it’s so small. But there’s another challenge that does this work so well. Yeah, maybe. And especially in the midst of a recession, which i hope is ending soon, but we’re still in it. Maybe not technically, but everybody is not an economist thinks we’re still in the recession when non-profits have to be more efficient? Yeah, maybe one of their tasks one of their programs isn’t isn’t one that they’re doing the best and isn’t one that their constituents are that interested in, and they can they can shift that program elsewhere, absolutely, and maybe even swap donors, maybe even do a joint, you know, event who knows how you can do this so there’s an important piece, so i hope that’s clear on the on the direct mailing side let’s, talk a little more about what you might, including a reply device. I mean, i’ll always telling our clients that every direct mail piece should come with some kind of reply device for someone for the recipient toe asked for more information, tell them that they’ve already included the organization in their state plan, which is a type of fund-raising consulting that we do, what else can we include in a direct mail piece to get people to share information with us? There are several things the first thing you want to do is you want to make sure you give them something some type of gift in a certain way, then i give you could be like a church key could be that could be, you know, a pin pins bleed or not are very powerthru early. So you liked a little get off pens or so because pin’s tell people i’m part of the part of crew. I’m part of a team, little lapel pins and that kind of thing, very power for the great or really detailed, specific information in southern information that no one else knows. These two things are very powerful. They feel to gift oh, i want to give back. So maybe an insider newsletter if it’s a newsletter, it can’t just be here’s what’s going on at the charity nobody reads that you’re fooling yourself. Nobody reads that if it’s here something you don’t know, here’s something nobody but our members know here’s something happening in the secret, you know, you know, volts of power, something like that. Yes, people read that if it’s that time of insider information great. Or if it’s something that could be ah, story. Directed towards them, like the story of the kid’s going to see mickey mouse, that’s a positive story, something like that. But if it’s, just his was happening on a charity, nobody reads that and has also very consistent with sort of traditional fund-raising wisdom, which can often be wrong. But in this case, it’s, consistent with what you’re saying and that is sharing more detailed information with your your better donors. Yeah, eso. How to induce someone from giving five hundred dollars a year to a thousand dollars a year. Part of that will be that you’ll get our insider newsletter or our president’s circle. Yeah, email alerts on breaking events around are our issue perfect. My guest is larry sharpies, the director of neo-sage. We’re going to take a break, and, of course, larry joins us after this break, and also after this break, tony’s, take two. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 at aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on job strategies and networking. Come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelfth at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair from 10 a m to three p m. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one bonem are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com durney welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent were right around thirty two minutes after it’s roughly one thirty two eastern time. So it’s time for tony’s take two. Last week i couldn’t do the show because i was doing podcast interviews at the national conference on philanthropic planning that’s where we had an archive edition of the show last week. Ah, did six interview’s in conjunction with the chronicle of philanthropy, thes air interviews that will be coming up on upcoming shows. But just to give you a little sense of some of the people we talked to, one of the subjects was red flags in planned giving that was aviva bed occur what to look out for in planned e-giving we all know i’m a plan giving fund-raising consultant so i’m the first to say plan giving could be an outstanding way to build endowment or in other ways, just help your non-profit long term, but there are some technical sides to plan giving, and you do need to be careful. And aviva benwikere raised some of those red flags for us in that interview endowment management strategies, my interviewee there, along with the chronicle of philanthropy, was catherine miree, sharing methods and techniques for keeping your endowment safe. Um, we had to washington d c insiders. An attorney in a lobbyist, emily lamb and perry wasserman perry. Washington is actually the lobbyist for the host organization for that conference, which is the partnership for philanthropic planning. He’s their lobbyist, emily lamb, is an attorney in washington with skadden, arps and used to before that was with the treasury department working on in the in the tax in the tax area and are subject with emily and perry was how legislation and regular the regulatory environment is going to be affecting, um, fund-raising and non-profits generally, especially with the elections coming up in just a couple of weeks had a cripple your career in five easy steps. That was robert sharpe of the sharp group crippling your career in five easy steps. That was really very interesting. Sort of. Ah, ah, hook a way of getting you to pay attention to your career. Um also had an melvin from harvard university. She was talking about motivating and marketing to your plant e-giving donors. You can see my blogger post on each of these interviews at my block, which is m p g a d v dot com, and you could also keep listening to the show for full interviews with each of these guests cause we’ll have the full interviews broadcast. If you don’t know when those air coming up, you wouldn’t know because i don’t know yet, but when they do come up, you confined out by getting our insider weekly email alerts, go to the facebook page for the show and get those alerts, of course, facebook, dot com and then it’s tony martignetti non-profit radio and you can sign up there for our insider email alerts in november. I’m going to be speaking at the next-gen charity conference that’s here in new york city, but we’re also going to be doing a podcast interviews of mohr speakers from that conference that’s november eighteenth will be doing the podcast interviews, and they’ll be for broadcast on later shows. And then on the nineteenth, i’ll be leading a workshop pg and so me planned giving in social media using social media, too. Reach out to your fund, your your plan giving donors and that has special considerations because plan giving donors are typically sixty and over, but we know where they’re where they’re going. Social media wise, is it facebook? Is it twitter? We know, and i’ll be sharing that in the conference. Also, i’m very pleased that i can offer with you offer you twenty percent off that next-gen charity conference for listeners of the show to get that twenty percent discount to the ah next-gen charity conference, which is on november eighteen and nineteen in new york city, you could go to the blogged or the facebook page and look for that twenty percent off discount. My guest this week is larry sharp, and i’m really glad that we’re spending the full hour talking about fund-raising sales training strategies to kick start your fund-raising larry is a corporate sales trainer on dh ah, director of neo-sage, which is a consultancy that trains clients, had a cell fund-raising network and influence effectively. Larry, we we had been talking about direct mail and newsletters and direct mail pieces. How about the telephone? How can we shift? Are thinking about fund-raising in the way that you suggested and do this, if if if we’re doing telephone outreach, sure, just generally speaking, when you’re doing the telephone, you’re talking to people who donated before now with the do not call list it’s difficult to do cold calling for for for not-for-profits an exception might be say, if you’re doing your ah your list for a college, maybe call me alumni that might be cold sometimes, but the exception of that generally speaking, people who’ve done any before the tactic here has to be as soon as you call you want to start giving them information right away. It’s ah, hey, tony, how you it’s latto from x y z charity? This call is because you don’t want to just call in just seeing it sounds apologetic. Yes, sorry to be calling, but you’re not saying that, but it sounds like you’re apologizing and really should be calling straightforward got important news to share you don’t want to train your donor base into thinking i call just cause you want your dahna metoo think i call because there’s a reason so as soon as you pick up the phone hey tony’s latto x y z charity here’s. Why i’m calling, you should know x y z you should be aware of bump up, up, up, up, here’s what’s happening where you care boom boom, boom ba boom whatever that is, then go into a specific reason why you want the money. A specific reason such as and because of this, we have a new initiative, tony. And the new initiative is we’re going to now take the kids to you know, niagara falls because we know that’s going to help them out. And the doctors were saying, what is what we should do blah, blah look to really help us out to make this really happen. We need you to do now, what’s that is at least double what you gave last time. So if you gave to earn fifty it’s at least five hundred, you may want to shoot four thousand whatever it is. But you want to go for a very high number for your first ask realizing most of the time you’re going to know. Okay? The reason why you do the high ask at first is to call the law of contrast the influence love contract states. I will measure everything by the first thing i see. So my first one thousand now to fifty seems cheap. Ah! Vice oversea to fifty thousand expensive. So you’re measuring the second number, which will get to yes, in contrast with the first law of contrast, are so so two fifty seems like a cz you said a little compare two thousand. So i’m gonna ask for i must say, you know, to make this really happen. Tony, we really need tto help us out with a thousand dollars. Can you do that, tony? Now odds are you’re going to say no. Wow, but not like that. You said, wow, it’s, a lot of money because i’m a two hundred dollar donor. Zack clean under fifty dollars, to fifty donors, a lot of money for me. I’d love to. I can’t right now. Time to tough. Whatever you’re going to say, then you go and do you go to low and then medium so close, high, low, medium and listen to my language in doing this, i’m going to ensure that you do not go lower than last year. That’s the first time would ensure since i know what i’m still getting to fifty out of you. So i start with a thousand bucks you say can’t do it, you know? What? Tony, honest and completely, you know, you could if you want to go back to what you did last year, which is two fifty here’s that most people doing for us that most people don’t really help us. A lot would be if you go five hundred. Can you do five hundred? Okay? He said, i just did, yeah, you could go down into that fifty, but most people are, but most people doing doing five hundred most will gave me last year doing five hundred. Most people are will help us tremendously or ah, common amount. Some word that invokes law of social proof social proof means if other people are doing it, i should be doing it. So you know, your language should invoke social of others are doing it. What we’re expecting, what we’re seeing, what people are doing, the most common amount, any language you could be part of the trends are the trend exactly in the different word, but and we have to, because each cherry has their own culture, so the words i’m using may not function in your charity specifically, but use the language that your culture of the culture, that chap you can use that says that that says other people are doing is a trend it’s common, and you could be part of that trend. Exactly correct your your strategy, you’re offering people the ability to stay in the same at the same level. You haven’t minimized what they’ve done for you in the past, saying you could stay there, but what most people are doing who are involved in this issue is going much hyre without your saying much hyre exactly exactly right so that’s, why you do it? So at a minimum, you’re going to say, look, larry, i love the charity i love you guys. Let me stay at two fifty, okay, great, thanks, tony let’s two, two, fifty so no matter what, you’re not going below that, i’m getting something out of you and you’re not going lower, but with this tactic, the odds are if you can afford it yoga hyre now, if you can’t afford, you can’t afford it, i got it times a tough some people can’t, you know, put the money out, but if you can afford it, you’re going to go hyre if you can’t, you go to fifty and hopefully next you you keep it going, keep it going. Keep it going until eventually hope every donors over a thousand over ten thousand, over a hundred thousand we hope whatever we can get, the reality of it is they’re not going to give more than they can afford anyway. But if they’re out to fifty from last year, they probably can get to fifty again. So that’s going to go? We don’t want to say, you know, last you gave to fifty because then they say, well, you know this shit. Can i just do one twenty five times the Job just 2:100 and over some before you know what the given ten dollars? So we start with the high number so if you want to, you could stay there. But here’s that most people are doing here is a trend. And hopefully more of them will go towards the raising two two. Fifty two, five hundred that’s. What? We have seen that you see that slowly clients? Absolutely. Yes. Should these calls be scripted? Of course. How do we prepare? Absolutely a hundred percent. The people you want to use can be any. You can use anybody you want. To do your fund-raising it’s generally best if the people are part the charity, sometimes they don’t do it. Sometimes they hyre outsiders part not necessarily employees, right? Could be volunteers motivated bones here. Somehow part of the chinese doesn’t happen of us have to be an actual employees. Could be other donors could be donors. Kids could be anyone someone who somehow part of that team. This way. If the person begins to ask questions, they can say some they can say yes. I am part of this team, you know, my mother donates and, you know, on the weekends, i sometimes go with the kids out to, you know, the orchestra or whatever’s your charity. Right? So i went there last year. The summer camp. So that means okay. We’re all together. It’s. Instant report. What part of same as we have something in common. You absolutely better chance again. You could hire outsiders, but that has to go down a little bit. You don’t gain that same report. Okay. So, it’s best that people who are somehow connected to part the charity? Yes. That’s. The who who? You have to do it. How do we prepare these? We literally want them to have a one sheet er a page that is eggs dig zach script of what you want them to say in that order. In addition, wantto have, at a minimum a second sheet of paper, which is your rebuttal script, which is where you go when people tell, you know where you go when people give me excuses and often this is not even used. But having those scripts there make the telemarketer feel it ever safety, blanket. See, people think we have to have the script there in rebuttal sheep so that the person can use it, they can, but it’s not necessarily used it’s there so they can feel more confident if they have a problem. I’ve got someplace to go if they’re just up in the air, becomes, yeah, well, again, she and what we would like becomes that if they have a script, they can look at it, go through it, and if they don’t need it, they can ignore it. But they know it’s there, it gives them confidence. The robot a script should be there and the most important thing the wrap up once that person says yes there. Should be a script. The wrap up, it’s, be great. Ok? Is that going to be via our online or you are going a lot. Great. Please go to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Are you near a computer right now? Great. Could you log on to that’s? All right there to do. If it’s via a psa. Pleasure going, you know, mail it. How to mail it, what to do with their with their she too. Should they send them something? If it’s a credit card form, how do you feel that out? Whatever the wrap up is. And then of course, in the end, you’re going here’s. The most important thing at the end. You want to provide benefits? This is so anti non-profit. Okay. But we do instead is we thank them twenty five times instead of thanking them twenty five times. Say something like this. Tony, this is so great. You give in the five thousand dollars, you know, what’s gonna happen. These kids are going to get this. That this? That this and from last year we know this this and this is going to happen. This is really great. You know what, tony will? Say i feel fabulous about mike that’s. Exactly. Correct. Only wish i could have given more. Yeah. Can i get two checks? It’s? Awesome. Fund-raising nirvana. Absolutely. Against the outcome. Yes. You want to share the outcome? Even before it’s it’s occurred. This’s what your gift is going to do for us one hundred percent. This is the benefit you want to show. Then you can thank them. Then you can thank them. You are not allowed not-for-profits listen to me. You are no longer allowed to thank them until you first give them the benefit. Once they get the benefit and they go wow, that’s! Great. You’re going to say thankyou, tony actually great after not before otherwise they start to think shevawn e-giving hundred bucks thanking him early bleed or not increases buyer’s remorse. Thanking them early actually lowers the chance they actually go through with the give you will find just by changing that the people who pooh promise and then don’t deliver that gap gets smaller just by doing that. Thanking someone before you give benefit. Thanking someone early actually increases buyer’s remorse i think doing a favor maybe i should have gone to fifty. I’m not really sure that begins come to play hesitation, hesitation. This economy means no or it means i just write two hundred bucks on it instead of my father and i pledged so all this and you get a lower number, something that happens, so thanking them early literally lowers the men of money getting in, changing just that you will see a difference but share the outcome. Of course, please assume assume the person commits yes, and you’ve you’ve given them the pertinent information, okay, i’m with larry sharp he’s, the director of neo-sage, and we’re talking smart sales training strategies to kickstart your fund-raising we’re going to take a break, and after the break, we’ll come back, talk about email and maybe some goal setting. Also, how do you set your fund-raising and your fund-raising goals all with larry’s advice from sales training strategies? I’m tony martignetti, host of tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us getting anything, wounding e-giving ding ding, you’re listening to the talking alternate network get in! Think. Cubine is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call us ed to one, two, nine, six, four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one, two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Hyre durney is lack of capital or credit keeping you up at night? The show me. The money conference is coming to the roosevelt hotel, forty five east forty fifth street in manhattan on november third. This’s the best business networking opportunity to meet potential investors and lenders, and get answers from our expert panel of business and financial advisors. From or information, call six four six six one nine eight, xero nine one or online at rose otto accounting that’s r o s a d o accounting, dot, com, slash show me the money. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance. Social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio my guest is larry sharp. We’re talking fund-raising for the full hour. I think that was very interesting information about buyer’s remorse and saying thank you too quickly and too often in the in the telemarketing calls. Larry. Excellent. Thank you very much. Of course. Let’s switch teo, email. What advice do you have around email emails? Ah, great tool there’s some issues, though, that the ideas people often send emails out weekly or monthly and think they’re giving updates, and they think they’re helping their actually knowing their donor base. The reality of it is what emails you want to do, two types of emails, the one is maybe an ask and that’s. Okay, but if we do the ask the rules off the mailing we talked about earlier are the same rules once a year, and then maybe once a quarter or so for specific issue. Any other e mails you send have to you have to be one of two things one some really big issue that someone is going to care about specifically, like again, i care about sammy, the shark and not em of the whale you’re going to send me the note about sammy the shark, not about emma the whale, not about what’s going on in the field, not about what’s happening my charity. In reality, i get too much email, i’m not going to read it it’s going to begin to annoy me delete, delete, delete, delete and when the important e mail comes in, i’m not going to read it. I’m going to another one of these e mails delete so either it’s about sammy the shark or it’s that same idea on ly a recorder on lee once a year, same rules. The last thing is, if i have something very special that no one else you know, that’s really going to affect everything like all of a sudden, you know, bill gates joins our charity, you know, something huge like that send the email, but a monthly or weekly email just cause will on ly annoy you don’t abase and they’ll begin to become immune to it and they just shut off your your advice goes back to the importance of segmentation. You need to know what your donors are interested in so that you can push that information and that’s ah! That’s a web term, you know, push, push information out to them that they’ve expressed an interest in absolutely i think we’re in two thousand ten approach fast approaching two thousand eleven were past the days of here’s what’s new writers what’s happening where it’s not specifically targeted to the person’s interest. Absolute sure, yes, those rules on email events. But what about using events for fund-raising events believe or not are really, really important more important than people think, and they don’t have to be huge gall events. They could be very small if you have a good donor base asked them to support the event in one of their buildings, one of their facilities, their home, their office, one of the case. Maybe the reason why events are important are several number one is it creates camaraderie amongst the people in the charity they feel like they’re part of team when you can bring your donor base in and say, hey, look, these are the people who are going out there and, you know, cleaning off the seals or, you know, save this person actually saved emma, right? He’s the captain of the boat and again showing people that they’re part of their part of something bigger. We talked about the trend, you know, here’s the trend in giving around when we talk about telemarketing, but you can see that you’re part of a trend you’re part of something in here is palpable evidence you’re surrounded by all your a ll the people who are sympathetic to the same issue. Yes, absolutely. So you want to do events for that reason, but the second reason is you want to share special information. This is when you want to do the corporate video that comes out before anyone else sees it. This is when you talk about the special plan, a program you going to put in place next year that no one else knows about this is when you’re going to share these atoms insider information that on ly we know that’s when you share there’s another reason why i do it. You want the donors to begin to see value in networking if the donor base our business owners or sales wraps, or people who want to do business and being relationships to their world to the firm’s toe other toe, other charities they may support if they start seeing value and donating, then they want to be part of the process. They want to be part of this organization. Is he additional value? Now? This turns off a lot of non-profits they can’t stand the idea of having an event and people doing business there that turns some people off well, time to turn back on because it’s a very important reason why people get together. And if all of a sudden i start seeing that when i go to your events, there are some heavy hitter donors there that i could somehow benefit you to my personal family. My personal fortune, my, my emotional i have ah, vendors i can use somehow i can benefit from being around these people. I’m gonna keep donating. What’s. Interesting. There is. That is exactly what ah, non-profits do recognize around boardmember ship? Yeah, we’re always recruiting people who can do business together. And the more powerful their board, the more powerful people they’ll be able to recruit to the board hundred percent. But why is that limited to the board? Absolutely. He totally right. In fact, if you get bored members to show up in sweet twist their arms and get them to show up at the events. You get more people who just want to board members. Yes. You want to see the boardmember? So even that mohr people showing up more camaraderie. Mohr mohr almost. I’m part of this team and more loyal donors who will keep donating every year and assist you volunteering, allowing you to use the facilities there, their homes except for et cetera. Where we have just about ninety seconds or so left together. What about goal setting fund fund-raising goal setting. Can you give us just a couple of tips on how we can? We can do that. What you want to do? This is the difficult thing. You have, you individual fundraisers. You actually want them to come up with their own goals. This is what’s. Odd people use it from the top down. I should deal from the bottom up. Who are the people who are in charge of fund-raising? Are they have a fund-raising director? Do you have actual tele call telemarketer people? Do you have, you know, print shops who you using? Ask them what they think they can dio and then give him a nudge. What? If we do better, what if we do better? What can be a good goal? While we do that? We want the people at the bottom to take ownership of the goal themselves again. I wouldn’t do it. I’m part of this. I’m a volunteer. Make twenty five phone calls. I’m gonna call it for forty five as make this goal. Get the people the bottom to start to give you the idea and from that, build your goal. All right, top up about sorry. Bottom up yet my guest has been larry sharp. He is the director of neo-sage again. That’s. Any oh, hyphen s a g dot com on an influence training center in new york. Want to thank larry very much for being on the show and coming to studio. Thank you. Thank you. Pleasure having you, larry something on larry’s website from dale carnegie, i found were not people of logic were people of emotion. That’s sort of a paraphrase of a dale carnegie quote, but i think it sums up what larry’s talking about the reason people give and how you can motivate that emotion in them next week. I don’t know. Who’s going to be next week, we’re not confirmed so that’s. Why you should get the insider alerts from the facebook page. Go to the facebook page, sign up for our alerts and you’ll find out the moment i find out who next week’s guest is going to be and that’s a facebook dot com tony martignetti non-profit radio you also see my live appearances there. The creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff, always grateful for her help in directing the show and giving advice around creative ideas and timing of the show. Thank you very much. Claire, our line producer and the owner of tony of talking alternative broadcasting is sam liebowitz and our facebook and social media for the show is done by regina walton of organic social media. I’m tony martignetti, the host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, even though we don’t know who the guest will be next week. Join us next week, friday, one p m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting right where you are right now at talking alternative dot com. Hyre i didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network to get you thinking. I think. Cubine i really need to take better care of myself if only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up dahna is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness can help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two eight six five nine two nine zero or visit www. Dot mind over matter. Y si dot com. Cerini this is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo i will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 at aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on job strategies and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelve at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair from 10 a m to three p m for more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one. Altum are you stuck in your business or career? Trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause. Of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Altum you’re listening to the talking alternative network.

Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio for October 1, 2010

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Compliance. Board relations. Fundraising. Technology. Volunteer management. Accounting. Finance. Marketing. Social media. Investments.

Every nonprofit faces these issues and big nonprofits have experts in each. Small and medium size nonprofits have Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts throughout the country join Tony to take on the tough issues facing your organization.

Episode 12 of Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio for October 1, 2010

Tony’s Guests:

Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder.

“Go Beyond Google: Gourmet Prospect Research on a Goulash Budget

Tips on free prospect research resources to know your existing donors better and find new ones”

Cathleen Rittereiser, co-author, “Foundation and Endowment Investing”.

Everlasting Endowment: Techniques to keep your endowment safe and invested right; Your CFO and board should listen

  • When and where: Talking Alternative Radio, Friday, 1-2pm

    Click over to our Media page for the files we’ll discuss during the show.

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    Here is the link to the podcast: 012: Going Beyond Google & Everlasting Endowment
    View Full Transcript

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    Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host tony martignetti i want to thank larry bloom for that shout out saying hello, what a heartfelt and tender, sincere show he he just ran if you didn’t hear it right before this show it’s the divorce, our with larry bloom, you’re non-profit if you’re feeling left out of the mix because you’re smaller midsize left out of consultants, attention, the media attention, you have a home here at tony martignetti non-profit radio last week, we had tips to tune up your plan giving program by hiring the right financial partner and how to have a good working relationship with that partner, and we also featured a new segment i’m looking remember that was advice for non-profit job seekers from recruiter paula marks and that’s going to be a recurring feature on the show this week. We’re going beyond google gourmet prospect research on a goulash budget. My guest, maria simple, the principal of the prospect finder, is going to share strategies to know your current donors better and find new ones. I’ll also be joined by kathleen. Rittereiser we’re going to be talking about everlasting endowment in the second half of the show techniques to keep your endowment safe and invested, right? She has researched what the big, sophisticated endowment managers do and she’s going to share what she learned your cfo and board should be listening it’s not too late to call them up and have them listen because she’ll be in the second half of the show and between the guests around the half hour it’s tony’s take two this week, the irs says you’re non-profit status may be at risk if you’re not a non-profit you can’t listen to this show, tony martignetti non-profit radio we can’t have non non-profits listening to the show, do you want to risk that as well as possible your tax exempt status that’s probably secondary toe not being able to listen to the show that’ll be tony’s take two around the middle of the show, i’m your host tony martignetti this is tony martignetti non-profit radio we have a ninety second break, and then i’ll be joined by maria simple. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call us ed to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom to one to nine six four three five zero two. We make people happy. Hyre geever. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable race? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back on tony martignetti, host of tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m joined now by maria simple, the prospect finder larry bloom on the show before, when he was signing off and saying goodbye, said he doesn’t know what a prospect what the prospect finder is. While we’re talking about prospect research, maria samples company is the prospect finder. She’s, the principal of the company and the website is the prospect finder dot com maria is an experience researcher, trainer and frequent speaker on the topic of prospect research, she consults with non-profit organizations and helped them helps them find their best prospects for long term relationships. She’s, a member of the association of professional researchers for advancement, that’s apra. And prior to her work in this field she was a securities dealer in the investment banking industry. And interesting now she also does consult for financial services firms, helping them find the best prospects. I’m very pleased that her practice and work brings maria simple to the show. Maria welcome. Thank you so much and on a lousy crummy day thank you for coming into the studio from new jersey. It is a bit rainy today, maria what’s the value of prospect research for small and midsize non-profits why should they be thinking about it doing it? Well, you know, the more that on a ah, non-profit can learn about their potential donors, they’re donorsearch prospects ah, and their philanthropic interests it’s going to enable them to really hone in on matching the interests of the donor ah, with the organization’s mission on dh so we’re going to be looking at or what the organization is doing is looking at the background of people and there and sort of their biography and profile to find that kind of a match. Yeah, that’s, right. So what we like to do is take a look at not only somebody’s capacity to make a gift, hopefully a major gift to your organization, but also whether or not they have an inclination to want to give to your type of cause. So just finding out that somebody is wealthy does not mean they’re going to want to part with their money and give their money to your organization. So it really is helpful to know what their charitable interests are, where they have given before and at what levels if if we could. Possibly find that information in the public domain. Okay, and that actually leads to the public domain. Leads to my thoughts about some resource is that small and midsize non-profits can use that are either free or very low cost. Can we start toe? Think about some of those. What are those? Well, first and foremost, i think it’s time for all of us to kind of get back to basics and revisit our good old library. So for those of you who do not have a nup dated library card, i highly encourage you to get a local library card or perhaps one of your state level county level. Or even sometimes your alma mater will allow you access to the library. And the reason why i say that is because libraries have changed tremendously in the last ten, twenty years. We’ve seen a lot of databases become available for ah, for the public to use. And you can access the many of those databases from your home. Your office, really, any computer anywhere in the world. As long as you have that barcode and you have internet access. My guest is maria simple, the prospect finder and we are live this week. We can take your calls for maria the court number to call is eight seven seven for eight xero for one, two zero, eight, seven, seven for eight xero for one to zero. So, maria, just the public library. Really? Yeah, the public library in terms of the databases, but also many, many libraries have access to reference librarians where you can call in actually the type in a chat with a reference library in twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. So very often, if you’re having trouble finding the answer to the type of question you’re looking for on some research that you’re doing very often, the librarian will be able to help you really pinpoint exactly where that resource can be found. Either online or within their own resource is that they have what are some of the database is that people might find through their library one database that can be particularly useful and identifying local successful business is business owners would be something called reference yusa and ah, that is in a database that one can access directly, but it’s also available through many, many library, so you can compile lists you khun research companies that you already know about on dh so that one can be very, very useful. Another such database would be who’s who type of database. It is a biographical resource, it’s it’s still available in many libraries and hard copy format. But you can also access it through a lot of libraries by getting in either at the library itself or with your barcode from home and let’s dive into some of these resource is what what kind of information can people expect to find from the who’s who, well, who’s, who was actually provided the biographical, uh, resource itself. The profile itself is provided by the individual who the re sort, who the research is done on. So the name of the individual where they reside, where they work their charitable interests, whatever information they have provided to who’s, who is what you’ll be able to get out of this particular resource. And maria, just in the thirty seconds or so we have before the break, isn’t it possible some libraries that you can buy a card for the library? If you’re not a resin? Local resident? Yes, you might check into some. Of the larger, really large libraries nearby and see if you can actually tap into purchasing a library card. I know that that is definitely an option in somerset county, new jersey, where i reside. Ah, and so you might definitely check into your local county or statewide library. See if that is available to you. My guest is maria simple, the prospect finder maria’s going to stay with us after this break. I hope you will, too. I’m tony martignetti. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, get in. I think. Cubine hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 at aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m, we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on jobs, tried to jeez and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelve at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair from 10 a m to three p m. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one, oppcoll. My real self, if only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up dahna is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two eight six five nine to nine xero, or visit w w w died. Mind over matter. Y si dot com. Durney are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio. I’m joined by maria semple, the prospect finder. Her website is the prospect finder dot com maria. Before the break, we were exposing people to the idea that the public library you said back to basics could be a really good source of information, and people can actually bike a library card if they don’t live in the region. So what? Um, what specifically could we do with the information? Let’s? Take the who’s who? Ah, typical biography, you said it’s, provided by the person who biographies on what what’s a what’s a non-profit going to do with the information that they find? Well, very often, it’s going to give you some really good information about somebody’s career. So let’s say we’re profiling somebody who happens to be a longtime employee of a public corporation. Ah, there maybe the ability for the non-profit to garner gift of stock from this individual. So just knowing that they have been ah, in a long term connected to a public corporation, you can actually ah, research out to see if they happen to be a corporate insider. Ah, and corporate insiders must report all of their trading activity to the securities and exchange commission. So this is one thing that a non-profit khun do. If they feel that somebody has really risen to the ranks of being a corporate insider, they might be able to ask, forgive to stock instead of a gift of of cash spotted. This could be particularly important if you’re looking at a major gift for a capital or an endowment campaign. S o definitely a resource stop for one second. We have ah, on the show, we have a jug in jail, and i’m the warden of jog in jail. So i have to take out the keys and ask you about an insider. What is the definition of an insider in a corporation? Well, if you are considered a corporate insider by the securities and exchange commission, you basically fall into one of three categories. You’re either one of the top officers of the company, in which case all of your stock positions as well as your salary history going back three years, is provided to the sec and in publicly filed documents, you also have the entire board of directors. Ah, that would be considered part of the corporate. Insider group and anybody owning ten percent or more of the outstanding stock of the company would be considered a corporate insider. So if you’re in one of those three categories, you do report all of your trading activity in that particular stock to the sec. Thank you for that. Right now you’re out of the jail. Wardens open the gate, the doors because you gave us that definition. What you said earlier. You want to try to match the a person’s background with your mission and your work? What about finding other non-profits that they give to that might be within your area? How could someone find out what other organizations someone gives too well? You can sometimes find it out through those biographical resource is also a newspaper articles s o i’m not suggesting you have to read every local newspaper where national newspaper but there are re sources such as news directory, dot com newspapers, dot com where you can go and research papers nationwide. So if you know if somebody that has perhaps a residence in manhattan but also spends part of their year in palm beach, florida, you might check newspapers related to those two. Regions to see if their name happens, teo, be connected to any major fundraisers gallows. Perhaps they’ve named a wing in the hospital in one of those two locations. So really, you know, looking for any press as well, that you might be able to find on the individual and googling them, learning how to use google? Well, actually, i always skip the main google page, and i go right to the advanced search page because it will enable you to, like, say, for example, tony, if i were researching your name, i would put your name in quotes, and i would ask google to return to me the hits that have only dot or go after them or dot edu, because that what that will tell me is that you are perhaps connected to those non-profits in some way either serving on the board ah, we’re making some donations, you’ll find nothing about me because no one goes to my blogged no one reads the content that i put out so you’re welcome to try but there’ll be nothing. What? Um, what about the person’s college? Could we if we know where they went to school? Can that be? Ah, possible source of information. Yeah, sure can, especially if you have a board of directors who is very active board of trustees was very active with you in trying to do some fund-raising if you’re able to determine either through a biographical sketch like in a who’s who profile or even looking at somebody’s linked in profile, those profiles are filled out by by all of us individually, and we do list where we’ve gone to school on those profile, so having perhaps that knowing that that you have a boardmember that went teo cornell and a and your prospect went to cornell, that might be the person that you want to match up to actually make thie cultivation and solicitation calls. My guest is maria simple, principal of the prospect finder maria provided a resource called going beyond google to find to find and research individual donor prospects, and you’ll find that resource as a pdf on my blogged at m p g a d v dot com and you cook the media tab and its you’ll find it there, and you’ll also find it, of course, on maria’s website maria, where would people find it on at the prospect finder dot com i have a resource is tab, so that document is there it’s going to give you a good overview? Prospect research, as well as a number of resource, is that you can begin tapping into immediately ah, that are even outside of the library world. Just websites that you can go to to begin doing prospect research. And i give you some guidelines as well, for maintaining confidentiality of the information storage of the donor data and you know, some tips on what to do once you’ve got the information and that’s all in the resource center of of your web site, the plastic finder dot com people get outraged a little bit by the availability of public information governments, state, local governments well and the federal government to putting so much on the web. But that’s sort of rich area, isn’t it? For prospect research he’s publicly available records and documents? Yeah, in fact, prospect researchers that work in non-profit institutions on ly have access to information that is publicly available. So it’s available by anybody. I know that donor private individual privacy is a huge hot topic today and what i can tell you about that? Is that the association that you mentioned earlier? Apra association of professional researchers for advancement, we actually have an entire code of ethics and guidelines to follow s o that people are their information is safeguarded on dh any anything that is compiled either in paper format or is stored in a computer is all safe guarded. So we do want to make sure that we are maintaining the confidentiality of the information and so let’s dive a little further into these public records. What kinds of things can people find in and say dmv database is marriage databases, real estate databases that air that air all publicly accessible? Well, the d m v database is we don’t we don’t tap into you can tap into some marriage and divorce records of the records that are tapped into quite frequently, though, are the property records? So we do like to have a general idea about somebody’s wealth with regard to their primary and any secondary properties they may own. So we tried to look at the value of those properties as well as perhaps the taxes that are paid on those properties and just would give you a general idea of their level of wealth, and in that case, if they’re the government documents you’re, you’re likely to see the the assessed value, which is often a lot lower lower than market value. Do you have any resource is for for market value on property? Yeah, actually, a really good resource is zillow z i l l o w that one it’s free zillow dot com you can actually even get a pic stir of the property in question, and it’ll give you a really good idea of where the property has been in value over a certain period of time. S o u will definitely have, you know, a pretty good sense of that. That person’s property value all right? And so now we’re giving people advice too, and a tip that they can go search their friends home, value their neighbor, right? I mean, we can we can take this a little beyond non-profit prospect research, but we don’t want to. We don’t encourage that. No, let’s. See what? What it should be in a sort of a prospect profile if if if someone is contracting with you or someone else for information on a donor or maybe a dozen or so donors? What kind of information should they expect to be in a profile? That’s going to be valuable to them? Okay, well, typically, the profile will contain information about the property addresses. As i mentioned earlier, where they went to school, their education, their work history where they’re currently employed, as well as any additional work history, we might be able to find any relevant information about the business. So are they in a an industry that is doing particularly well? Right now we’re perhaps not doing well and still recovering. Ah, we can find all the information i mentioned earlier about any stocks that they may own as a corporate insider, so that would not be any private stocks that they owned, but only those as corporate insider. We would be able to find out if they have made some major gifts to other organizations, and that information has been released publicly where they went to school on dh. Interestingly enough, sometimes the pieces of the puzzle regarding spouses and children could be a little bit more difficult to find on that’s, where you might want to rely on internal sources, such as your board of directors and volunteers to help flesh out those pieces of the puzzle a little bit for you, some of your research could be done by people write who are friendly with them, maybe staff who have met them. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know that that’s really important and any relationship that has been already developed by your fundraiser by your staff by other volunteers is extremely important. For example, they might know about how many children somebody has and the ages of those children. And if you have self couple of children in college and another one about to enter college, you’re pretty assured that a major gift is not going to be forthcoming in the next few years. So you might want to keep that person and more of a cultivation phase a little bit longer. Friends are likely to know what other organizations they might exactly on the bordeaux. Forgive teo. Maybe what clubs they belong to if it’s someone of wealth, right? Right? Yeah. And you might not find that looking. You know, looking in public resource is so please don’t discount those internal sources of information that are could be really valuable. And filling in some of the holes in your profile that you’re not able to find. Several weeks ago, i blogged about the value of the the face-to-face meeting, i like to do donor-centric dinner and just having a conversation with someone for an hour, hour and a half over a meal, you’ll find out a wealth of information was right that’s, right? And, you know, the fundraiser or the volunteer that is having that type of a conversation with a donor prospect, it’s it’s really imperative that that information flow back to the nonprofit organization? Hopefully you have some sort of good donorsearch oft where that is able to capture this information so that you’re able to make these types of notations regarding date of the meetings, what was discussed? S o if you happen to be raising money for a hospital, for instance, does this person have more of an interest in pediatric care, cardiac care, where you know what came through in the conversation that is extremely, extremely important, very critical, and i do find some organizations that don’t have that mechanism for feeding it back, and then it just resides in the person’s head who works. For the organization, and if they’re not around the next time the donor it has to be called or the next major event that the donor comes to or if they leave the organization go to a different job, that corporate knowledge is lost, it has to be fed by, right? And by the same token, tony, there are an awful lot of organizations that have founders of the organization that are still in place, and they have that longevity and like you said, all that information in their head and it’s really important to try and make sure that that information is imparted to somebody well on staff at the non-profit that can really filter that information because, you know, we you know, we could be gone tomorrow, so you know, it’s really important that the non-profit be able to continue their good work. I’m joined by maria semple, principal of the prospect finder her website is the prospect finder dot com, and we’re talking about going beyond google gourmet prospect research on a goulash budget and maria’s sharing terrific, valuable suggestions about doing prospect research for your donors and maybe even finding additional donors people who are not currently close to your organization, maria, what prompted that block post that i mentioned several weeks ago was a wall street journal article. It was on may sixteenth that was called titled is your favorite charity spying on you? And it was a little critical of of the prospect research that we’re talking about. Is this spying well? No, no, no, we’re not at all spying. What we’re trying to do is really garner the information that is going to enable us to develop the best possible relationship with someone. So if you approach this as a business meeting and this is really what it is, this is business. Ah, and also the fact that this individual that you would be approaching for a gift is making an investment in your organization. So it really makes sense to know as much as possible about the individual where their interests lie and see if there really is a match going forward to see if the conversation should take place so thiss type of corporate intelligence, if you will, is going on in the for-profit world market research, etcetera, and we’re just using the information in a way that will enable us. To develop meaningful relationships. You essentially then preparing for a business meeting. Exactly. Exactly. And in fact, if you walk into a meeting with a donor prospect and you haven’t adequately prepared it may it may come through to the person you’re meeting with. And and then you look, you look awkward by the same token, you don’t you don’t want to be so forthcoming with all the information that you know, because that could that could be awkward too, if you start spewing facts about the purse, right? Yes. So, i mean, you really wouldn’t want to say, well, my research has revealed that, you know, you own two homes and they’re valued at x y and z. So you know, the information is there to prepare you to prep you for the meeting, but not that you should start quoting off the information. So you using it on background background, right? Exactly. You want to be prepared? Yeah. And if you were going in to have ah, job interview with it with a corporation, wouldn’t you be doing as much background information research as you can on the company to make you sound like you know what you’re talking about and that there is a match for you to be employed by the organization. So it’s it’s a bit of the same mind frame you might even be reviewing the history of the of the interviewer and that’s akin to what we’re talking about. Right, exactly, marie, our time has come to an end. I want to thank you very much for coming to the studio. My guest has been maria simple, the prospect. Find her, you’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com. She has the resource center in her website and also, as i said on my block on the media tab, you’ll find going beyond google, which is very good advice seven or eight pages of advice from maria simple. The prospect finder. After this break, i’ll be joined by kathleen rittereiser. We’re going to be talking about everlasting endowment techniques to keep your endowment safe and invested, right? I’m tony martignetti, the host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Please stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 at aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on job strategies and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelfth at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair from 10 a m to three p m. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one bonem are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back, this is tony martignetti non-profit radio it’s time for tony’s, take two and what’s concerning me this week is the internal revenue service saying that ah, good number of non-profits may have their non profit status revoked shortly, quoting from their website and and a press release small nonprofit organizations at risk of losing their tax exempt status because they failed to fire a ll file required returns for two thousand seven, two thousand eight and two thousand nine can preserve their status by filing returns by october fifteenth, two thousand ten, under one time relief program. This all came about from the the philanthropy protection act of two thousand six. By the way, if you’re not interested in the history of what this all comes from, what you turn the volume down, i guess, and i’ll just wave my arms and you’ll know when it’s time to turn the volume back-up if you’re interested in history, it comes from the philanthropy protection act of two thousand six that was there was a lot of good provisions, including direct ira gift to charities for people over over seventy and a half, but one of the sort of hidden. Provision was that if a if a non-profit did not file it’s required form nine ninety easy for three consecutive years that it was going to lose its tax exempt status because the presumption was there, not inactive business and what’s happened is a lot of very viable and alive non-profits air getting caught up in this on my blogged at m p g a d v dot com i do have an irs widget that you can click on and read the list of non-profits that are at risk to see if yours is among them, or if an organization that you know is among them. You have until october fifteenth. That’s just two weeks to take advantage of the irs is one time relief program. I’m joined now by kathleen rittereiser kathleen is co author of foundation and endowment investing, and we’re going to be talking about managing your endowment. Teo, get the most from it and keep it most safes. Kathleen, i want to welcome you to the studio. Thanks, but to be here. What did you do to research this book? Foundation and endowment investing. How did you go about finding out what big non-profit organizations are doing with their endowments. Well, the first thing that i did was i teamed with the co author larry coe shard, who is the chief investment officer of georgetown university, and if the book came about because it was larry’s idea when he took over as the chief investment officer at georgetown, he was looking to learn from other successful chief investment officers about how best to manage an endowment in a more complex acid and by asset allocation environment. So he had the idea because there was no such book came to me because i was calling on foundations and endowments as an asset management sales person. So the two of us teamed up, and what we did was we researched who are some of the most successful institutions and investors in the foundation and endowment community. And then what we did was approached them and asked them to be in the book. So the book is actually profiles of leading chief investment officers. Each you tell their story, share their strategies and give advice for how to manage large endowment portfolios. We also include some history and some basic ideas about how to go about managing endowment. Portfolio, in other words, like, what are the things the basic things to dio if you are the chief investment officer or overseeing an endowment foundation type portfolio? And when i first brought kathleen on, i was stumbling through some papers to find the bio that i wanted to have in front of me when she came on, so i’m going to share that with you. Now the full title of her book, co authored with larry coe shard is foundation and endowment investing philosophies and strategies of top investors and institutions, and the two of them also have a second book, more current top hedge fund investors, stories, strategies and advice. Both books are available at amazon dot com also want to share with you that kathleen is a director of investor relations with concordia advisors and that’s in new york city based hedge fund. She has over twenty years experience in sales, marketing and relationship management roles with leading asset management, research and brokerage firms, which she was just saying, and i apologize that i didn’t have the paper in front of me, but i wanted to move us along rather than be stumbling along what types of organizations did the people who you and your co author interviewed work for the majority? It was basically split half endowments is a large university endowments and also some large foundation. So thie institutions included the hewlett foundation notre dame investor, which was is led by a woman named alice handy, who used to run the university of virginia endowment. Mitt is representative george washington university, the kaiser foundation and morgan creek capital management. And the idea was to really kind of showcase well known, well regarded chief investment officers in who worked in a variety of different types of non-profit institutions we also showcase, i mentioned mark yusko from morgan creek capital management. We also showcase the kind of burgeoning trend in foundation and endowment management, which is outsourced ceo. So that’s, what investor is and so it’s morgan creek capital management, and in a few minutes, we’re going to talk about the outsource ceo chief investment officer trend that you see, but let’s start with some of the lessons that small and midsize non-profits could take away from what you learned from these very big endowment managers. Absolutely, i think the most important lesson from all of these foundations and endowments and it’s true about any endowment portfolio is that the long term perpetual time horizon allows thie investment manager or the person overseeing the portfolio to take a long term investment perspective and to have a more value orientation, meaning that they can often make investment decisions relatively early on by things at very cheap prices and hold them for a long period of time. So it’s actually it’s it’s actually a an approach that’s, kind of a longer term buy-in hold approach. The other thing that’s important is the quality of the governance and the fiduciary oversight of the portfolios that most all of the institutions that we spoke teo, there is a chief investment officer who has full responsibility for the portfolio in making decisions, and the boards and the governors are really just for oversight and getting involved in asset allocation. So and the other lesson, which is really kind of a trend that started many years ago in the foundation and endowment community and it’s. Still continuing with these long term portfolios is the idea that if you can take a long term approach, you can invest in less liquid types of securities. Which led teo, many of them being successful by making investments in alternative investment portfolios such as venture capital, private equity and hedge funds. Now our audience is small and midsize non-profits so some of this back-up i want them to be ableto benefit from and i know in terms of quality of the oversight and transparency that’s where i think we’ll get into the sort of outsourced ceo movement because i think the majority of our audience probably doesn’t even have a chief investment officer. They probably do have a financial officer, but not an investment officer, right? This lets a little more about this. The long term view. I hear that all the time in, in terms of personal investing, your time horizon. What is there a recommended time horizon for investing endowment? Well, i think one of the well known endowment ceos who’s written about this subject is david swenson from yale. So he he looks at it as forever. So that’s, you know, officially perpetual is forever. Realistically, most endowments, i think, need to look more like ten to fifteen years out rather than one to two. Now many foundations in particular, i know, have different. Types of liquidity constraints because for the most part, they need thio spend five percent of the endowments value every year, so they have different kind of liquidity considerations. But if this is a large pool of capital, even a good size pool of capital, it makes sense to be able to put some assets in your allocation, which have a longer term horizon for paying off. So that’s kind of where something like a long term real estate investment or venture capital or a hedge fund that might have be investing in distressed assets or something that has a longer term time horizon for when the payoff will happen, will allow the endowment, the foundation to be able to hold on to the principal and preserve that principle for the life of their organization, but then also get the income that they need thio manage operations or give grants during during the shorter time periods. What this does lead into is the idea, which i think was one of the key investment ideas or the investment thoughts that come out of talking to foundation in and damn achieve investment officers and is also supported by research in the industry. Is the idea that asset allocation is really important, so whether you have a five million dollar endowment or you have a five hundred million dollar endowment, how you decide to allocate your assets is very important in how it relates to the mission of your organization and what your organ it organizations needs are. But asset allocation remains the key way tio earn returns overtime. My guest is kathleen rittereiser, co author of foundation and endowment investing, and we’re talking about everlasting endowment keeping your endowment lasting for forever for your organization’s life. But, kathleen, what can non-profits with maybe a five or six figure endowment do in terms of long term investing? I think i think an organization like that a lot of it depends on the finish of the governance, as i mentioned earlier, do they have a committee that is involved? If not, i mean, i think this does lead into the question of outsourcing and one of the trends that we identified and we spoke to some of the people that run outsource ceo organisations, is this idea of really just taking the portfolio and turning it over to an outside manager full time? Because what they do is they pull assets with a lot of other foundations and endowments, so you get a an economies of scale that is that’s really related more toward being able to pull your assets with other organisations, to make the outsource cia a more substantial investor in alternative portfolios, and allows you to get the benefit of really professional asset management experience, especially with that specialty and foundations and endowments. And i think that’s the that’s probably the key thought is that there is there’s a lot of expertise, and these portfolios are very complicated to manage as it relates to an alternative. So that would be why i would suggest that if you are a smaller size, the best way to approach it is to work with some kind of outsourced ceo organization, and they’ll take funds that air just in the five or low six figures, a seventy five thousand dollar endowment. It depends. Probably a seventy five thousand dollars in damn, it would be would be it would be difficult, however, i believe that there’s more and more new types of products coming onto the market. So there’s a lot of different models buy-in investor which i mentioned earlier, is kind of is a custom model. Morgan creek has a fun that’s available through the merrill lynch platform, and there are a number of other types of organizations that are offering mohr like a fund-raising khun, just invest in a fund rather than hyre and outsource ceo so there’s there’s a lot of different models that are coming to the forefront and a lot of larger asset management organizations. T a cref recently entered this market, so i think that that will be an option that’s going to be available for even the smallest size endowments, and it certainly sounds like it is now available if an organization has maybe seven hundred fifty thousand dollars or a million and a half dollars, and even in those low six figures, definitely right? Absolutely, yes, absolutely. And they’re not going to wantto put, i would think the whole endowment with outsourced chief investment officer, would they? Actually, they will. I mean, some of the largest one of the largest outsourced situations is a company called perella weinberg. And they recently took in the entire university of colorado endowment, which is eight hundred million dollars what they did. Then was they teamed up. They took the ceo as well. So the university of colorado chief investment officer went over and rant it’s now running the perella weinberg portfolio. But that’s that’s probably the biggest move that’s been made so and they will, an organization that doesn’t have the resource is or the time or the expertise to be running the endowment themselves or and they usually have a smaller endowment will actually make the decision toe outsource the whole portfolio. They’ll have oversight and governance and be able to be making asset allocation decisions and decisions related to how the endowment is used for their mission. But they will actually hire someone to run the whole portfolio for them. We only have about thirty seconds before the break. What about the resistance that this is ego? The board is now giving up authority? I’m not sure that i have thirty seconds. I think that’s a thirty minute answer it’s definitely an issue and one, that one that i would say that my my motto now is there is no d i y in fiduciary and that fiduciaries need to start to learn i think a little bit more. How the world of investments is changing and to start to think about what is really the right fiduciary decision to make and it’s not my ego, but it’s. What is right for this institution? We’re going to take a break. My guest is kathleen rittereiser, co author of foundation and endowment investing. I hope you’ll stay with us. Co-branding think dick tooting getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network duitz waiting to get into thinking. Thank you, cubine. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Whillans is lack of capital or credit keeping you up at night? The show me. The money conference is coming to the roosevelt hotel, forty five east forty fifth street in manhattan on november third. This’s the best business networking opportunity to meet potential investors and lenders, and get answers from our expert panel of business and financial advisors. For more information, call six four six six one nine eight zero nine. One are online at rose otto accounting that’s r o s a d o accounting, dot, com slash show me the money. Hyre this is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance. Social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Geever like the voice on that last commercial very, very soothing, sort of mellow voice. I hope you’re enjoying it, too. I’m joined by kathleen rittereiser she’s, the co author of foundation and endowment investing. Kathleen, if people have questions, i’d like to follow-up how could they get in touch with you? I have a website, which is kathleen rittereiser dot com, and my email address is kathleen with the c c a t h l e n at kathleen writ tom that’s c a t h l e n r dot com thank you, and you’ll of course find her name on my my block, where the guests are all listed. That’s m p g a d v dot com you can also see her name on the facebook page for the show, and i’ll tell you that her last name is spelled r i t t e r e i s e r kathleen rittereiser ands kathleen with the sea before the breakout thing we’re talking about this outsource chief investment officer trend and how small and midsize non-profits khun take advantage of it? What about the due diligence? What should’ve non-profit be looking at when there what should the process be for hiring the right outsource ceo? Well, it’s, interesting, because i think a lot of smaller foundations and endowments get in, as we were talking about earlier, that investment committee gets excited about picking managers and often, but we’ve seen that they don’t have the right experience to be picking individual manager, so picking an equity manager or bond manager where and the process is actually quite similar except what you’re doing is making a decision that’s more of a one time, longer lasting decision. So there is some extra pressure in that case, however, i mean that’s pretty much doing the kind of research like coming tio my website or even, you know, sending meet so, you know, doing research on the internet, there is a block called endowment investor that writes about endowment issues. I write about these issues, and i’ve spoken about them, so it is working it’s kind of doing sametz initial legwork to look at the models on dh think about what’s the size of my endowment. What what are we comfortable with in terms of giving up the level of authority? Some organizations have made the decision that they’re willing to turn over the whole portfolio, others might go somewhat piecemeal into it. Organizations that are working with consultants as such as cambridge may decide the work with their consultant organization to get referrals or also to transition into a more outsourced type of model. So, you know, obviously the first part is research and and i’ll admit that because this is kind of a newer type of investment approach, there are fewer let’s, say, syndicated sources of information about this but it’s becoming more and more prevalent. So even a google search on outsource cia well, i think lead you to some good resource is and again there’s information available on my website and even contacting me directly, i’m happy to help people with this also, i would say that the next phase is really due diligence like you would do with the manager thinking about what your organization’s needs are what who were the people that you want to be working with? What’s their business model inter? Are they a single fund? Are they doing something custom and then and then spending time with these investors? Tto learn about their process and how they’re going to work with you. So i think it’s ah, it’s a can be a longer term process, you know, it’s not a decision that you should make over the course of a quarter. I would say that if you’re really seriously taking turning over your whole endowment to an organization that it probably should take at least six months to a year from start to finish, to be making that kind of going through the process and making that kind of decision, what about the oversight we have just about a minute left once once a now outsource ceo is hired, where’s what’s the board’s responsibility, and they still are fiduciaries to the organization what’s the oversight of the outsourced the board is still is still the fiduciary, and basically the same kind of the oversight is the same oversight that they would be responsible for if they had a ceo or if they had a number of managers that were reporting to a committee member. I think what happens is when and what i’ve heard from organizations that have made the transition so far, the oversight is actually much more productive in hyre level variation of oversight, in other words, they’re involved in strategic issues of the institution and ask that allocation issues rather than nitty gritty, so it’s basically that the oversight is brought up a level in terms of its strategic import for the foundation or endowment. My guest has been kathleen rittereiser she’s, the co author of foundation and endowment investing, which you can find at amazon dot com her website is kathleen writ dot com that’s kathleen with c and r t dot com kathleen one thank you very much for coming to the studio today. Thanks for having me. It has been my pleasure. Next week we’re going to be talking back off his blunders. Stop squandering money on your back office costs tricks to save big on supplies, office supplies phone, energy, healthcare my guest will be jeff marston he’s, the president of resource centers for management and also your five minute program super streamlined events that keep your audiences informed, engaged and awake and that’s going to be a return guest. Claire meyerhoff those air both next week you can get insider alerts about the show, and you can get them at the facebook page at facebook dot com it’s tony martignetti non-profit radio you can also, see what my live appearances are on that facebook page. My block is m p g a d v dot com, and you can see where i’m appearing there and see what thoughts are coming a cross my desk, and maybe you’ll get some insight into what’s coming up at tony’s, take two for next week. I want to thank the creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio that is claire meyerhoff, our line producer and the owner of talking alternative broadcasting. His sam liebowitz on our facebook is done by regina walton of organic social media want thank you very much for joining me this week has been tony martignetti non-profit radio. We’re always talking big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Join me next friday at one p m eastern, right here at talking alternative dot com. Dahna you’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get a drink. Nothing. You could. I really need to take better care of myself if only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up dahna is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. 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Corporatization Redux II

Courtesy of Stephen Downes on Flickr.
I’ve posted twice about how state and federal governments and donors are corporatizing nonprofits by treating them like for-profit companies: The Corporatization of U.S. Nonprofits and Corporatization Redux. The Wall Street Journal reports nonprofits are behaving like corporations and treating each other the same, not collegially as in the past.

It’s all about marks: trademarks, copyrights and other intellectual property. I’m amused that The Journal’s coverage is by Clifford Marks.

What’s especially interesting to me is that friendly attempts at compromise, which in years past probably would have been accepted as a figurative handshake and let’s-be-friends deal, are rebuffed. Those enforcing their marks believe money is at stake. Does it financially hurt the Lance Armstrong Foundation if other charities use “Strong” in their branding?

I’m interested in other examples of nonprofits tussling with each other, so if you’ve got one, please post it. Thanks.

The Elusive “Perfect Fit” Employee

mid section view of a man holding his resume

In the midst of our recession, lots of nonprofit jobs have been shed, which puts lots of qualified people on the street competing for a small number of jobs. That has created a buyers’ market for nonprofit employers, and I’m hearing dismaying stories from job seekers that organizations love their qualifications but are holding out for the holy grail: the “perfect fit” employee.

Just recently I got an email from a nonprofit that concedes they’ve met a number of strong candidates, but is still holding out for the perfect fit. They went on to ask would I now give additional thought to their search, to come up with even stronger candidates I may know, as if I held the very best people in reserve when my suggestions were solicited a month ago. “Yeah, in the last 30 days I’ve met three people who are better than all the people I’ve met in my 13 years working around nonprofits.”

Actually, now that I know how particular you’re being, I regret subjecting my initial referrals to your unwinnable contest, and I certainly will not put anyone else through it. You want a second round of candidates, even better qualified than the strong candidates you’ve already seen? Bite the bullet and hire a recruiter. That referral I’d be happy to make.

Better still, stop. Hire one of the strong candidates.

The job I’m looking at has 15 bulleted qualifications and an equal number of sub-requirements. A few are boilerplate, like “team player”, “highly organized” and “effective communicator.” I can’t imagine there are more than a handful of people who meet all these 30 requirements, and how many of those are in transition? How many of those in transition will see this posting? And accept the salary, benefits and location? Give it up. You won’t find the perfect fit.

Businesspeople in a meeting


To go a bit further, and echo advice I’ve given clients, don’t look for a professional fundraiser who has “established relationships within the philanthropic community.” That’s a euphemism for “has a Rolodex” and is appropriate only to a board member search. A professional fundraiser isn’t going to leverage for your benefit relationships she’s made through employment in other nonprofits. That’s unethical and unseemly. When she leaves your employ, would you like her to do that for her next employer?

To those looking for the perfect fit, I say, “Stop.” Your expectations are unreasonable. Hire the best strong candidate you’ve met and let them grow and mature into the position and learn what they don’t already know. Stop looking for the “perfect fit.” Perfection doesn’t exist.