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Nonprofit Radio for January 25, 2019: Courageous Communication
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My Guest:
Maryanne Dersch: Courageous Communication
Maryanne Dersch says your nonprofit may be codependent and it’s stifling your communications. Are you afraid to stand out? Do you prefer middle-of-the road content to driving on the sidewalk? She may be right. She’s the author of the book, “Courageous Communication.”
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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti Non-profit Radio Big Non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. My friend the Scarecrow just got a promotion. She’s outstanding in her field. I just heard that today I got I stole that from a bank. A za bank joke. Um, I’m glad you’re with me because I’d be thrown into trauma nap. Tia, if I had to breathe while you told me you missed today’s show Courageous communication Mary and er sh says you’re non-profit maybe co dependent and it’s stifling your communications. Are you afraid to stand out? Do you prefer middle of the road content to driving on the sidewalk? Occasionally she may be right. She’s the author of the book Courageous Communication on Tony’s Take two Insider yet responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony Dahna slash pursuant by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com Bye. Tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four, four nine nine nine What a pleasure to welcome Mary Anderson to the studio from St Louis. XI is founder of Courageous Communication. She works with Non-profits to move from operating out of fear and scarcity to confidence and abundance. So they attract like minded donors and raise more money. She’s author of the book Courageous Communication. How Co dependence Is Making your Non-profit brand Boring and what to do about it. Marianne has a shoe fetish, a diet Coke fetish. And she sings karaoke E, which I call Carrie. Hokey. Ah, you’ll find her, her company, her book and her fetishes at marianne. Derschau dot com. And she’s at Marianne Derschau. Welcome to the studio. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. We’re gonna talk about coke and shoes and all kinds of thank you for coming in from St Louis. Thank you. I’m glad I made it. Yes. Your seven hours delayed yesterday. Yes. You got a lot of purple going on? Yes. Kruckel, hair, lips, nails. Yes. Okay. I just I just goingto embody my brand. That’s right. Live the brand for sure. Yes. You’ve got to be courageous. So Okay, um, co dependence you feel that organizations, maybe a little co dependent and you wanted to move away from that, Teo Courage. Yes. And I actually the thought of this concept in the therapist office when we were talking about co dependence, which the simple definition is when you subvert your needs for the needs of others. Right. So you’re not doing what’s right for you because you’re too busy doing what’s right for others. And so it’s that weight that we can’t be kind giving people. It’s just when that when we are subverting our needs, which builds resentment right in our personal lives. So I was looking at that as an organizational issue. I’m thinking, Wow, a lot of my clients are subverting their needs for the needs of their donors, right? So they are not doing and saying what would be right? Because they’re afraid of someone might what someone might think, right. So it’s all way they’re focusing on the loss, not the wind. So that’s when you talked about moving from fear and scarcity. So that is a lot of that Ideas like, if we say or do something wrong, something bad is gonna happen. We have to like Speaker act a certain way because we want to appeal to, you know, this group of people and that’s usually around around money. Okay. Okay. All right. And, uh, your therapist? No background? No, no. I was in therapy. I have a team of mental health professionals. You guide me through my, my, my actual therapist, actually just told me I should cut back to wait. Go back to five days a week now. So? So I’m getting I’m not After eighteen years, right? Things were getting better. Yeah. Um, All right, So what is this courageous communication? You know, of course we have the hour, right? So don’t go into Don’t go in there. Right detail, But just give us overviewing. What is this Courageous communication? So courageous communication is about not worrying about the people who don’t like you, but focusing on the like minded folks who share your heart in your mission and attracting them to you. So that is the simplest explanation. Don’t worry about the critics. Focus on the folks who have an affinity for what you d’oh. Okay, okay. You also encourage needing less praise. Please don’t be so needy. So the idea is level the purple in-kind together talking her hands are flailing hyre lips, and that’s amazing Hope. The Olan song. Yes, so right, so praise and criticism. So so again. One day I’m in my therapist’s office and and I was talking about how someone had criticized made a criticism and because I’m oh mirriam, you’re always in the spotlight or something and and then where other people would praise me for that same like skill are, you know and tendency. And she said, Well, Mary, and that’s just other people’s opinions of you and and it shouldn’t and they’re both the same thing. Praise and criticism are the same. They’re just other people’s opinions of you. And I’m like, Okay, well, that’s ridiculous, because Treyz feels really good and criticism feels really bad. And she said, A whole person really can manage praising criticism, right? So you don’t need praise to feel good, and criticism doesn’t derail you. Although one feels good and one hurts, you’re still going to be a whole person, like moving your way like through your life. And at that moment, I thought, Oh, my gosh, my clients are overly dependent on praise and terrified of criticism. And even if you meet people like that in person who are, like, very needy for praise their kind of exhaust sing right, and then it forms this sense of inauthenticity. So relationships reform with people and organizations are made of people, and we want to have an authentic relationship. And so when we’re when we need a lot of praise and are terrified of criticism, of course we send these messages that seem inauthentic, right and were afraid to like Show the true, the true truth of like who we are and what our organization is. And and so we think that that that’s super shiny, perfect image is what attracts people. But that doesn’t attract people. What attracts people is the real n’est, like they want to know who you really are and how they can help you with your struggles and the wins and the losses. And and all of that, just like we want to know from each other, you say You say have a point of view, right? And don’t be ashamed of that, right? Right. And people who have a similar point of view will be attracted to you. Yes, and those who do not will criticize or depart. And that’s not bad. Yes, because you want more of the people who share your point of view and fewer of the people who don’t exactly like the like the You don’t call yourself this, but like I’m doing it for you, you know non-profit therapist? Yes. Right. Yes. You’re you’re You’re encouraging this cognitive behavioral dahna scheme for non-profits right to use an organizational level. Okay, um, be strong. You say, You know, this is another thing. You saying the book be strong, be strong in your message and easy to find, right? So because the ideas create a brand of attraction to attract like minded people. And so if those people see that you’re standing up for the causes and the issues that they have an affinity for, that’s going to attract them to you. And then when you’re easy to find that helps you attract, attract those people. So if I have, you know, a desire to help a certain calls or issue and I’m looking for that, I can find someone who does that and then build build a relationship with that organization. Okay, we’re gonna take our first break, okay? And I want to say that when we come back, We’ll talk about how this is all very personal to you and not only the therapy, but you got some other things going on that that are interesting and and a little provocative. I will bear myself. Yeah, you in the book. So you read the book for detail, or you can hang out here and get get the Cliff notes version. Well, not really Cliff notes. I mean, we’re on for an hour. That’s not right. Get the get the audio version. That’s what I mean to say that this is the audio version of her book pursuing. They have a new free E book, which is the art of First Impressions. You need more donors. The Art of First Impressions. The book is about donor. It has the six guiding principles of ineffective acquisition strategy. It has how to identify your unique value and use it to attract people like Mary and I were talking about plus creative tips. You’ll get it at tony dot m a slash pursuant capital p for Please remember that. All right, let’s go back to creative communications. So you’re relaxed. You’re a burlesque dancer. You were You’re unashamed unashamed about the shoes, the platform shoes. That you? Yes. So you are. You know, you make those other things, You’re out there and you’re attracting people. How are similarly minded? Yes. And you’re not upset when people are, I guess put off. I don’t know if people are put off. Everybody in the world I don’t know. I guess I just don’t get carried away. All right, But you’re you’re out there for your own, for you’re in your own brand. You’re practicing. What, you Yes, yes. And my company to it is built on the same principles of a brand of attraction, right? And really connecting with with like minded organisations. And so it’s It’s less about worrying about trying to convince people you know it. It’s hard to change what’s in people’s hearts, right? We all we all have our philanthropic heart. We all have what’s in our hearts. So what’s in my heart and who I am? And so it’s hard to convince people of the worth of your organization. It’s hard to convince people that I look for like minded people, right? And your work. You probably do, too, and I publish a podcast. Right producer podcast and people who enjoy it will come to it. Yes. And so it’s this idea of of working less to convince people of your worth and that just attracting the like minded people. Teo, tell me about the burlesque. Well, that’s so I mean, I mean, what I call a midlife adventure, so I know why. Wouldn’t know. There’s nothing to be going crazy. Whoever heard of a good life eventually? Well, that’s what I call it on. DA. You know, I’m fifty three. It just turned fifty three, so And I just decided that you know her, so out about their age, you know? I love that. Well, why Why would I? Because I don’t know why, but lots of women are coy about Yeah. So fifty three three very. And that’s when you’re supposed to say, Oh, my God, you look great in here. You look amazing. That’s what you’re supposed to say, right? OK, thanks. So I just decided that I was feeling really confident. Like, I think women in their fifties. It’s a really great time. And you you feel like, really confident. Like I don’t care what anybody thinks. I’m doing what I want. It’s Sometimes I call it like your second act like after the kids are a little older and whatever you can go do. And I just decided, you know, this idea of feeling really confident about your body and and your sexuality and who you are. And in burlesque, the beautiful thing about it is the key. Everybody is welcome and everybody is beautiful, right? So big bodies, little bodies. We celebrate our curves and giggles. There’s trans bodies, you know, there’s one of the guys in my class is Ah ah did burlesque in drag. So, like any, you know any who any person you are is worthy of celebration. And so in a lot of times women, we get the message to, like, you know, like, whatever you are is not good enough, right? You have to like, Thanks. Put yourself in here and wrap yourself up. You know what I mean? There’s something about you that is unappealing. So in burlesque, it’s sort of like this idea of owning yourself. But also I did it for sort of command of myself and the stage. So as a speaker and trainer, you know, having command of your of your brain and your body, like in front of people, right? So learning I chose improv in stand up comedy, it But it’s a lot of the same skills, right? And understanding, like being in the moment, like being really in the moment and really selling something right. And so and it’s this idea of even though I was, like, terrified in my head, you know, I went out and what you just let go and just have fun and that that feeling of that intersection of fear and exhilaration that that’s that’s something that is that it is such a great feeling and and you know that, right? This stand up on the stage doing stand up there. The applause is over. It’s your audience. Are you going to make them laugh, right? Or are you Are you going to be embarrassed? Exactly. You got eight minutes go and and you just dive in. And And it is really about just being so present in that moment. And so that was the fun for me. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for sure. Fifty three millions fifty three. How bad you’re about? Uh, okay, so, uh, s so let’s talk about some communications? Uh, more brand promises you want. You want tohave? You want us to have a Is it just one? We have a brand in order to have a brand promise or one brand problem. Grimm Press What’s a brand program promises the highest level of thinking that the highest level of experience. So ah, brand promises something A promise that you make to everyone your organization interacts with on And it’s not always stated, but it’s felt so. I used the example of, like, a target because everyone’s been to target. Right? And you know what? It feels like it and they you know, they’re brown brand promise, even though they don’t say it is like, you’re going to have a good experience here. You know, like for some women like targets or recreational activity, Right? We, like, walk around with our carts, bring kids. Yeah, Yeah, you push the kids around. When my my oldest child, when we adopted my oldest child, like and I was a nervous mom to a three year old, you know, I would just go through target because I like target, you know? So ah, and s o. So it’s this idea of that promise that we make Teo to everyone we interact with. And then once we figure what out what that is, then we can then that can distill into all our messaging and our talking points and how our organization looks and feels well or it’s a grand process could see. I was going to say, How is that different than a vision? But but vision is what you’re trying to achieve. Yes. Yes. This is your brain is about This is about what you’re going to get when you interact with us. So so I’ll give you an example. So there is a national organization called Oasis that works with older adults. And they do recreation activities, volunteer educational. So as people are, you know, nearing retirement, you know, finding the free time in their life. Okay, Now I’m going to really pursue my own interests or do what I want. You know, you would turn to Oasis for for further education, for volunteer opportunities of exercise. Right? And so when we looked at them and we said what? What are we really promising people? And it was this idea of ah young at heart. Right? So being young and violent and feeling like life is full of promises, like no matter what age you are. And so when we created that young at heart brand promise U S. O, then it’s like, Okay, now we’re going to look at okay. They remain message, which then became Oasis. Lifelong adventure. There’s no one. So here’s the thing no one wants to help label. Nobody likes labels like Millennials Don’t want to be called Millennials, right? Seniors don’t want to be called scene like people don’t like labels, right? And so we couldn’t say for seniors or, you know, so it was this idea of implying lifelong, which is throughout life and adventure. But the brand promise was really this idea of staying vital. And so when you looked at the color, the photography, you know how how the organization looked and felt how people interacted with that organization in person and in print online did that? Did that make that? Did that? Keep that promise right? So once you have that, that’s sort of this feeling that just works its way through everything you dio. And sometimes it’s like so known. It’s just it’s a thing that people don’t really talk about it Just obvious and evident. And some. But it’s always good to define what it is. Because then you could really look and say, Are we communicating? That, you know, is are we keeping that promise with every with every interaction that we that we have? That was life, life, long adventure? Yeah. This is Oasis that well, they’re brand promise. Was was this ideas being young at heart? Which lettuce to the tagline like lifelong adventure. Like your midlife adventure? Exactly. Like you recommend adventures to clients to have no life, e Yes. So Okay, I hadn’t drawn that parallel till you just said that. Yes. Oh, well, this is why some property for thirteen thousand? Yes, it’s unlike you could be a part of my mental health team. Time organic xero fee. I can’t afford me. I know I can’t afford my therapy five days a week now, but so hyre. Okay, I don’t know where I’m going with that, but so are so You have the brand promise, and then you have belief statements. Okay. Yes. They seem to Segway from Okay. So yeah, so from the brand promise. So this came about because a lot of heat would say to me. So I I want to appeal to this group. So butt And yet I what appealing to this group may mean like hurting the feelings of this group. And and we’re not sure what to say, you know, and how to keep all these, you know, different groups, you know, from not offending anyone. And so I was at a workshop, and this woman said to me, You know, I work with women’s health and some of the women in the group are that that that this organization serves are pro life, and some of them are pro choice, and there’s always, ah, you know, and and I’m all work. It’s this constant battle. Okay, so so in their head, there’s a battle, right? So it’s like, so these beliefs statements then allow us to say, Here’s what our organization believes. Here’s what we stand for and these are five to seven principles that we just don’t move off of, right. And so one of those beliefs statements could be we we work to include all you know, points of view around, you know, this issue, I said, you just state that you’re trying to do that, right? So that’s a belief that you have a belief that she had was We’re doing our best to accommodate the most diverse, you know, points of view possible around this issue. But isn’t that contrary? Teo. Courageous communication. What we said earlier about not being fearful of offending some people. So so you’re not. It’s not that you’re offending. You’re trying to make space for both these groups that were a part of this this organization. So it’s it’s this idea of, like, Yeah, and we might We might we might We might fall down on that everyone so out. But we’re doing our best to accommodate everyone. So this is not an organization that has to take a stand on on abortion, right? Whether with the organization, right? Right, right. This is organization that was working in maternal health. White like maternal health. So it’s like, So there’s route that and saying, There’s room for and we’re doing our best. So one of the organizations I worked with in St Louis is called Episcopal City Mission, and they serve kids in juvenile court custody. And so the idea of why your kids in court custody. What have they done? What? How? And then they’ve minister to them, it’s called a minute. They call it a ministry of presents. So they minister to the kids, their mentors and ministers to them. And so this idea of creating these beliefs, statements for them allowed them to say, Here’s what we believe about the children that we serve and about And it also allowed them to talk about their religious, the religious foundation around that. Because then these air this is what we believe we believe that no child is should be defined by the worst thing they’ve ever done, you know. And so when you hear things like that, like, okay, and no one argues, no one can argue with what you believe. This is just what we believe. And if it’s not for you, that’s OK. So And it’s It’s a very freeing way because this is what we believe in. And if something it like if something comes to in conflict with that, then you know well, that that’s that’s that’s This is something we just don’t move off. Yeah. How do you develop belief? That? What are you telling you? Talk with your hands. I I’m pulawski demolition. We say we can’t You can’t talk with your hands strapped down. Yeah, yeah, that’s what I like to have zoo meetings when I explain concepts. A lot of times I used my hands, you know, to describe things, so okay. All right. So my developing within your organization, how do you develop? So most of them are known, but not said so get them in writing, right? Exactly. Yeo. Yeah. Yeah. So more. Yes. So So it just really depends on the organization s o. We asked people. So when we asked people, like, what do you believe? You know what? What? What? What? What? People on the organisms staff and bored. And then from there, we distilled it down. So we got a lot of input and then distilled it down into, like, five or seven things. So But when I’m working with an organization, I’m hearing them as I go. So I’m sort of like already taking a mental inventory, you know, and and and and and listening to what they are because a lot of times they’re just they’re just known and they’re not written. And this one of my clients that it’s called there. They call it the values, their value statement. It’s police stated value statement. I mean, you can call it different words is still the same thing. Here’s the unassailable things that we believe in. Right. And then there were working on putting them, like in the in a very prominent, Like when you walk in, like, here’s what we believe, which I think is wonderful, right? Because it just grounds everybody into that. Okay, Okay, way. Don’t stray from these, so if we’re going to embark on courageous communication. Courageous. Well, courageously. Yes. We’re going to change some culture. Some thinking within the organization, right? Because most organizations are middle of the road. You know, there’s safer. We’re not goingto for the reasons that we talked about, you know, they don’t want to. Ah, I don’t want to be provocative in their communication. Yes, maybe not. Take a stand or take a week or stand. So how are we going to get changed? You have some ideas in the book about changing culture. Tto make this shift correct. So non-profit culture is fundamentally risk averse. I think the board structure is the board structure. Like they’re in their mission to be like, Let’s not ruin this, right. No problem. I’ve been on the boards before. It’s like, Please don’t let let this organization die under my watch. Right? Right, right. All right. Like that was shot that Do you know those hos do no harm? Right? So So the idea is to switch from this idea of fear and scarcity. So I’m constantly scanning and thinking about what could go wrong to thinking about what could go. Right. So an idea of living in confidence in abundance and so how that happens is really from I work with organizations on on all levels, so I can’t just create cultural change through one person. So what I was doing before was like I could teach you how to write better Web content, or I can teach you howto have a more engaging brand. But if you don’t have the culture that supports that, that’s not that’s not gonna work. So typically it’s working with, you know, board and executive director at that level to embrace this idea of that, you’re going to go a lot farther. Ah, latto faster and achieved more success when we adopt the principles of of abundance, right and so and it’s and that’s calling Teo to the front. So here’s like, Here’s when we did take a risk and it paid off, right? So so because I think organizations, they’re doing this already there, just not giving themselves credit for it. So a lot of times it’s just like helping them understand. You’re kind of already doing this. We’re just going to do this in a way that’s really deliver it and the idea of and showing them the numbers of of, you know, how it. It takes a lot of time and a lot of money, Teo, to convince people of something rather than create, like fighting those likeminded people and attracted them to you. And it’s about relieving yourself of not at casting that really wide net of having to appeal to everyone. You know, Because what if What if we miss this dollar? What if we miss this? Don’t you know what? But I know I understand that. Yeah, but I want to get to that house too. Okay, So one of the things our first remind listeners we had a show called buy-in bitches. There were two women. Yeah, we’re who talked about who talked about getting buy-in that there was around it and technology project, But But you could listen back to that show because they had a lot of good ideas that are that go beyond just tech projects. Cool. Forgetting buy-in from from your boss from your CEO. Buy-in bitches. Okay, I’m sure if you go to twenty martignetti dot com and you start the word bitches, that’s that show, that’s so we’ll make itself apparent like those ladies. Alright, i e I love them too. We did that on the show just is organic. We You know, we don’t come up with the name we need to come up with a name of one of them Said we could be buy-in. I said we needed a liberation, was close and she I think and then I said, which is really did that just thinks. Oh, really? Oh, well, I forget whether she said it hesitantly. Or I said it boldly. I don’t know. But yes, love, Anna, But you also you mentioned you touched on something You say the book share the successes, share small successes when when you’re when you’re new form your new brand of communication does well get get Retweeted or yeah. Get special attention on Instagram or something. Great. Share it, share it and and share it with especially the board. Like, show them how this is work and give them the data to support this because they had their typically data driven Okay. Okay. So I want getting this getting this buy-in You’re also encouraging us to understand what the board’s motivations are correct. We’ll say little about. So you’re you know, you’re like I said the boards. Motivation is typically tio not mess up, but they also really they I mean, the board members really care deeply about what’s happening. And so when you can understand, like what they want to contribute what they’re what’s, then they’re what’s in their specific like, ah, mind how and and then pull that out of them. Then once they can increase their buy-in increase there, um, they’re emotional impact into the organization. Then we can. Then we can really work with them on taking those risks and coming with us. You know, for me, I’m, you know, I’m come from a communications background. I was on a board, and it was a lot of lawyers and accountants, and I was wondering, like, you know, how do I fit in here? You know, what is my gifts? And the organization is foster, adoptive cure coalition, that they’re my client now. I said, musicians what Foster and Adoptive Care Coalition. And I stepped down so that they could be my client. One of the things that we did is like these monthly our yearly meetings where we met one on one, the staff and board to talk about what our goals were, and then how they could contribute to those, And I think that’s really helpful. Another thing you suggest is be patient. Take small steps. Yeah. You know, you had over, like, a minute or so. Yeah. No, I mean, I think you just said it just you’re transforming a culture takes time, and it takes till it takes deliberate action every day. And so that’s why those successes, they’re so important, so people can start to see the transformation. And that’s a Olds. It’s been a month. And then, you know, let’s let’s move off this. This takes some time to really become part of your culture and just how people act and and think every day. Okay, we’re gonna take that break. Wittner, CPS. They’re kicking off a remote non-profit roundtable. Siri’s Each quarter, a Wagner’s sepia sepia will cover a topic that they know intimately detailed. And you need a basic understanding. That’s all you’re going to get in an hour. This is not a sepia, you know. Cielito SEPA credit course. You need a basic understanding of it. Their latest is revenue recognition for grants and contracts. You watch the archive video at wagner cpas dot com. Quick resource is than Webinars. Now, time for Tony’s. Take two. Are you insider yet? I’m pushing this because what do you get as an insider? Exclusive content. So today, with Maryann, we’re goingto produce her shoes, her platform boots that she’s about. You’ll see the purple thes. So there was shooting extra content videos short, like five minutes videos with each guest. And insiders get that on a private playlist. Now, some podcasters might charge you for that. You got five bucks a month or something? Whatever. Maybe seven. Eight bucks a month? Something? No, not non-profit radio? No, no charge. I just want you to be an insider. So you go to tony martignetti dot com and you click the insider alerts button that’s it. Prominent and you’ll be an inside its name and email, That’s it. It’s all I ask. You’ll be an insider, and then you’ll get the access to these exclusive videos that I’m doing with guests and, uh, including your going to see Mary Ann’s boots. All right, uh, let’s go back to Mary Anders and courageous communication, All right? Okay. All right. Yes, of course. My favorite thing. Tents. Are you okay? Stand up straight. Okay, okay. All right, so that the cops way talked about the culture, change, all change. Listening. Listening? Uh, you like, uh, discovery sessions and focus groups. So what’s the part first before we get to discovery sessions of folks, why do we have is listening How does a listening exercise fit into courageous communication? Okay, so when we, when we listen, Teo, so courageous communication is not too saying or doing whatever you want, right for the purpose of doing it. So when we listen, This is when we find consensus points in thinking that help is building develop our messaging and our brand so that everyone who’s part of it feels excited to share it. And s O You know, when I just want to make that clear, is when we talk about being a courageous communicator, that that that means that you’re speaking your organization’s authentic truth, right? And how we get to that is by listening. So, you know, what do we value as an organization? And then how can we present that in a way that feels authentic? Tow us and that but then is also exciting and engaging for those like minded people that we want to attract. And that’s where the discovery sessions and the focus groups come in. SoHo are we listening to? So for so So I I’ve used this cool tool call Discovery sessions for many, many years and S O. N. And it’s different. So typically a focus group, you would say, Here’s a couple of ideas we’re thinking about Can you give us some feedback around these specific ideas, right? A discovery session is more of an open ended conversation where you’re asking people how they think and feel about an organization. What attracted? Who are you asking? Well, I’m going to get to that. What’s so so about Non-profit? I would never platform boots and altum. Yes, so So So what we would do is create way create a cross section of people so bored staff, volunteers, clients creating a cross section in the room. Now, sometimes I would do it where, um, an organization would want different discovery sessions based on audience. And then it was up tio us to kind of synthesized the information, but most the times like that was a longer process and, um, or involved in an expensive process. And they wanted so we would take maybe twelve to fifteen people, put him in a room, board staff Like I said, you, Khun Dio, volunteers, clients, those people that are really close to your organization, they don’t even have to know a lot about it. Just have an affinity for it. And so sometimes people come in the room and they would say, Well, I just joined the board. I don’t know very much. It’s not about what you know. It’s like, What’s what? You’ve what you feel, What you feel right? Right? Yeah, right. You come. Why’d you join? So we and in the book I really lay this out step by step on how to do this, But we’re going to ask questions like, so, you know, tell me how to get the book. Just get the book right. What? Three words come to mind. You know, when you think about us. Like, what do you think that we do? That’s different or better? Because that’s what we’re looking for. Like our positioning. Right? And you know what attracted you? What? What would you tell people, Teo? You know who you think might be attracted to you? Would you tell people about right? So so that’s for two reasons. Because we’re planting something in their mind. That, you know, Hey, you should tell people about this. And if you did, what what would What would you say and what we’re looking for us. I said our consensus points and thinking. So when we do these, I have people write first and then speak and they write first. So that, like, if you and I were at opposite ends of the room and I heard, you know, everyone had the same thing to say by the time we got down Teo, you strain your Yeah, right, everybody. So I’m just going to not say that, because then I don’t think so. So we look at consensus points and running first, and then you got to read what you wrote. Exactly. And it’s a very strength space conversation. So a strength space, right? So you’re looking for what? What assets you have that you can present, And then how can you use those assets to connect with like minded people? So I just did this recently for a group that was starting their first sort of, like, big plan giving effort. And so we had a Yeah, right. Your your your wheelhouse. Yeah, And so it was the idea of, you know, These were people who had been long time donors and volunteers. So they were really the top prospects for this. But in But before we wantedto ask them formally, we’re asking them. Hey, how did you become involved? Like, what is your affinity? You know, what do you want your legacy to be, you know. And so most philanthropy is born of pain, right? Like so, There is a pain that I had in my life that I want to prevent other other people from happening. Right. So, right. So the pain of you know, you know, my parents, you know, we’re unemployed for a long stretch of time and write something like that. Right? And so when you asking people what you want their legacy to be, you know what? What? What? What? What changed? You want to see in the world, you know? Then you could really understand, like what their goals are. And so when we you know, when we did this, we got when we did these discovery sessions. We got so much information and not just around the plan giving, but just around who they were as people and and what and what their goals were in life. And how How can I How could an organization support that person? In many ways? Right, So so. And it’s It’s always we always get great stuff out of them, and people leave. People leave feeling really good. Like, Wow, that was a great use of my time. There was a very good donorsearch gauge mint. Yeah, Even bored engagement. Exercise? Yes, yes. So then what do you do with the with the synthesis of all this, Right? So just go. Yes, sure. So before you start, we usually have what we want out of it on the back end anyway. So if we’re looking for a messaging co-branding something like that, So we’re going to know what the front and what we want out of the back end. Sometimes people say like, this has happened so many times, people would say stuff in the room, and that would become their tagline, you know, and oh, gosh, yeah, but I can’t say that in the room. Right? Great sport. You catch it. Yeah, because I’m listening. I’m listening. And I’m scanning for you have the trained ear. Yes. And know what the purpose of the meeting is Yeah, and and and And there there were just creating a space for them. Tio Tio really express their thoughts around the organization and around their goals for their own with their own knife. Very informative, I think. Two CEOs, Teo full boards. Yeah. No, this synthesis, even beyond the product. Whatever it is, you’re looking for messages, right? Or or your promises or whatever, very informative, I think for it is. And it’s also, when you listen first and then and then develop later than we say to them. Hey, you know, because of what you said because of the guidance you gave here’s what we created, or here’s the direction we went. They see the impact. So if we don’t make decisions in the room and we make very clear up front like this is not decisionmaking, we’re not making a focusedbuyer. Yeah, you make want a pole or make a decision or, you know, get at least some priorities out of that. But this is about just this idea of Hey, let’s let’s talk. Let’s create this very specific space to talk about your thoughts around our organization, and then we can use that then to to help our decision making, You know, as a staff, a said struck me as outstanding engagement. Yes, for whatever. Whatever constituent. Cuz you’re bringing in volunteers. Clients? Yes. All the board donors plan giving donors get shot up. E-giving dahna. Yeah. Yes, that’s right there often for gotten. You know that they are. I’m the I’m the Evangelist without the religious overtones for planned e-giving at my client’s. Because it’s often the forgotten group. You know, there’s no recognition society for playing, giving you have a thousand dollars. Five thousand, fifty thousand dollar recognition, nothing for planned e-giving people who put you alongside their grandchildren. Right? And children in there will their life legacy. Teo, you can’t throw them. Ah, Recognition group. Come on. What do you mean? I’m not here yet, but, uh, I make the point. Dahna let’s take a break, and then we’re on our way. Okay, Well, when we come back, then we’ll talk about the authentic personality cause I feel like the info that you would gain from the discovery session of the focus groups leads to your unique personality and authentic personality partner. And and that’s important to know to learn. Tell us, can you use more money? You need a new revenue source. You want diversify revenue. Get a long stream of passive revenue. When cos you refer process their credit card transactions through, tell us infact you get fifty percent of the fee that Tello’s earns. It goes on for months and years with the credit card transactions. You watch the video, then send potential companies to watch it. Where do you get it? It’s on the listener landing page at tony dot m a slash Tony Tello’s For the video, we got to do a live listener Love the live love It’s going out. It’s going out to Ottawa, Canada. Say, I don’t like the way New York of the Ottawa No Ottawa, Ottawa, Canada Welcome. Xiang Xiang, Hyogo Costume, Shanghai China NI HAU Shanghai, not Shanghai I don’t like that Shanghai Shanghai NI Hao, Brooklyn, New York I don’t like that. It’s Brooklyn, New York. That’s the way they would say. Shanghai in Brooklyn, Brooklyn, New York, New York, New York Multiple live, love, All of you, all of you. I’m just going down the list. We’re not. Sometimes I go domestic and then abroad. We’re doing it all on her. And the way Sam wrote it down real court to Argentina. Would that be, uh, put a star days when a star dies? Argentina Riel, Quarto Live Love to you Garza Garcia, Mexico Buena Star Days, Moscow, Russia. Good dog. No, that’s German. Um, Moscow, Russia. Live live out to you Middle village, New York. That’s Long Island. Middle Village. Cool. Charlotte, North Carolina. Live love, special love going on North Carolina, of course. Tampa, Florida Adelanto, adelanto, California Live love to each of you are live listeners And there’s more out there But summer summer mask guarded. I don’t know why, but there’s more live love going out to those masked, guarded people if I didn’t shut you out and the podcast pleasantries the over thirteen thousand listening in the time shift pleasantries to you. Whatever you’re doing, you’re painting your house. You’re washing your car. You’re doing the dishes. Is that your podcast binge day on a Sunday evening or something? No Sunday evenings of fir e mails. I have to be Sunday afternoon. Podcast binging wherever. Whenever you’re listening pleasantries to the that huge podcast audience, I’m grateful that you’re with us. Thank you. Let’s go back to Mary Anders. How does that sound? Great. Okay, cool. So what do I say we’re going to do? Oh, your authentic self authentic personality. One may all right, flushes out what we got here. Oh, you have a quote. I want Tonto. Okay. Okay. Frame this little bit. Page eighty for when you get the book, you’ll see it’s paid for the more honest and authentic you are in your communications, the more you’ll attract like minded people. So we’ve been talking around that, right? That’s like, to me. I was sort of like a thesis. Yeah, a theme running through the whole book, But Okay, but so now we’ll talk about your authentic personality. Okay, What’s this about? So as an organization. So we’ve talked about your personality on the center of the universe. If you can’t say that, you only have one cent. That’s so let’s move it. Dang it, dang it. Shifting away. Right. Light is moving now to your clients and nonprofit organizations who are listening. Yes. So So it’s this idea of, of of your organization just really being who they are. So if your grassroots e that’s okay if you’re older and more established, that’s OK. When you try to present yourself as something, you’re not just like people. People are going to get that through. Yeah. So I was meeting with Ah, a woman that I’ve known for a long time, and she now manages donorsearch vise funds. And she said, Marianne, it’s my job to get below the gloss. The brochure gloss into what’s really going on an organization. And I said, Melinda, it’s my job, not tohave the gloss that you can really see right into an organization that they’re excited, too, to present that to you and that they feel confident, you know and who they are. And and so one of the ways that you do that is, you know, celebrating successes, but then also being really honest about your struggles. We want to and and and if it’s a failure, right? And I In the book, I cite the Engineers Without Borders in Canada. They always do this failure there. Their annual report is their failure report the top ten ways we failed, and I’m like, Okay, boy, that’s a confident but they’re talking about Here is the lessons we learned. And in non-profit, I think we’re not allowed to fail like we think you know and get that become part of part of that risk averse culture if you’re going to take a risk if you can’t be bold and courageous you’re going to fail some. Great. And here’s what we learned from that. And here’s how that helped us grow. And so that’s idea of the good, the bad and and that that’s what people want to know when they want to connect to, you know, in in St Louis, I’m, you know, I’m ah, fostered dogs, right? So that’s one might. That’s one of the things that we do before dogs and you adopt children, adopt just Yes, I am a rescuer by nature, so And so I and there’s, like with you. Yeah. Yes. So there’s several organizations that sort of do a lot of the same this kind of the same thing, right? So they’re all working an animal welfare, right? I’ll show you who’s sorry, where were there are working in an animal welfare, but each of them has a distinct personality, right? And so so what? The organization that I that I worked for it there a little bit gritty and rebellious. The other one is a lot more folksy, community based other one is like older, established. They work on higher level like advocacy and overarching like statewide doing there in the streets. You’re doing the work. You’re rescuing the dog, right? And so so. But each has their own personality. Jefferson City? Yes. Jefferson City, Missouri. Yes. Capital of Missouri. Well, hardly hardly known. Right. City lived in Warrensburg for five years. I was in here for firstborns. Were really Okay. All right, so so. But each one has their own distinct personality, and that’s OK. And so when When you are looking so if I have an affinity towards animals, I can I can look and I can understand, like the landscape and one which one I’m attracted to, right? And and And And so it’s just sort of like owning that like, you know, Hey, you know, this is this is who we are, and this is what we’re about. And and And if you like that, that’s great. And if you don’t, that’s okay too. You know, we’re happy to know us and a hard place to be lorts well to a future with Sorry. I wanna keep it on the chairs now. We’re on a shoestring budget here. Okay, So leading to this is you’ve alluded to this a bunch of times. You wantto take stock inventory? What it is that’s that’s holding you back. What your fears are? Yes. Okay. We haven’t talked about this yet. Yeah, let’s let’s flush this out. Because because if you’re going to be courageous in your communications, there are going to be worries. Fears. We’re going live donors, We’re gonna lose volunteers. The mayor isn’t gonna like us anymore. Etcetera, etcetera, You know, you gotta take stock, right, And then go ahead. You flush it out. Yeah, eso. And so it’s important to inventory your fierce because the concern isn’t going to go away. So when the benefit outweighs the concern, then you’ll move forward. So what I mean by that is when you’re going to have concerns and fears through this whole process. But But we’re working towards something greater. So we just need to learn what our concerns are and then make a plan to address them. Because boardmember Zehr going to say, Oh, my God. What if this happened? Okay, Okay, so what if that does happen? So let’s make a plan to address that. So people like plans because it helps them, you know, feel feel safe and like, Okay, so if we’re going to do this thing, and so what if somebody doesn’t criticize us? What do we dio? And then once we have, like, so a lot of times, you know, Remember when Non-profits were hesitant to get on social media? Because they we’re afraid of of negative comments, right? What if somebody says something? Okay. What if somebody does say something? How do we manage that? And and so because crisis PR to me is just something that happens not every days. Ah, huge crisis. But it’s just you’re going toe. It’s the price of doing business. If you’re doing and saying something interesting, somebody’s not going to like it, and that’s okay. But the people who do like it are the ones we’re concerned about. And so it’s this idea of Okay, What if somebody doesn’t like it? Then how can we address that? And there are, you know, times when I worked with groups where we really just said, Okay, what are all our concerns? And we put them on the whiteboard and we addressed each one with some with some strategies. To address each thing. What if this happened? Okay, this is what we would d’oh. Okay. Right. Okay. On benefits as well. You wantto take stock of the benefits, right? And so that so the idea is to attach Teo and and the thing is, like, you could have one hundred fears. But if you have one benefit right, you’re goingto work past those those fears. And so the idea is okay, as a group understanding, what do we really want for organization? How? No. What is it that it’s really want going to move us forward? And then once we agree to that right, and then so now we know how to get to that. Okay, now, this is this concerns, and we’re just going to manage these as we go with a plan for each one of your plan for each one. Because what happens right now is we’re making decisions based in fear, right? And so let’s make decisions based on rational thought. Right here is what’s best for organization here’s here’s the most efficient way to get what we need or whatever. Whatever it is instead of Oh, no, we can’t do that. That’s that’s that’s too. That’s too something right. So when And so the ideas. Yeah, I get that. That’s scary. But let’s make decisions based based in the rational thought, and then and then just just be mindful that there’s going to be concerns popping up you say in the book fears don’t predict the future. Yeah, right. I’m not a mind reader. I wish I could be. I tell my kids that, too, just because you think it’s all going to go wrong, it’s not. That doesn’t mean it isthe right. So and the ideas like this idea of being an abundance of scanning the scene for but what good could happen instead of constantly scanning the scene for what could go wrong? And that’s why I’m working toward the good right. And that’s a mindset that that, you know, I work for every day, as you know as a person and that that, you know, I work with organizations to Yeah, right. So we’re going to look at the world is a place of abundance and opportunity Instead of fear and scarcity. You got a car last break text to give. Can you use more money? I need a new revenue source. Diversify revenue. Here’s the second way. Mobile giving. You could learn about it with text to gives five part email. Many course you’re You’ll get five emails over five days. Just like my therapy. I could do, mate. I did my therapy in this way be a lot cheaper. So I’m sure five e mails way, Yes. So what do you do to get the five female Many course from text to give you text. NPR for non-profit radio and November Papa Romeo. Air Force days, Whiteman Air Force Base, Warrensburg, Missouri. Jefferson said he’s the capital. Text NPR to four, four, four nine nine nine. All right, we’ve got several more minutes left for courageous communications. Um, so staff expertise you have. You have a chapter on developing right on creating developing staff expertise. Yes. Yes. So just take a picture of me. Yes, you did. You know how to shoot a video, So I know it’s exciting beyond Zoom. You love Zoom I d’Oh d’Oh d’oh. Okay. Okay. So, staff. Okay, so I learned a phrase a couple weeks ago, and it’s It’s not my genius. It’s not my job. And I think that plays really well here. That’s about a about why’s that bad? Because then you have to be. You have to be excellent at everything. But you’re not a possum. That’s right. You’re a genius and everything, right? So, Souto, from your therapist E I learned that for I know. I was on Ah, CEO workshop. Okay. To be average it something. Yeah. Was your therapist? Yes. Yes. It’s okay to be just OK, which is still, like, completely unacceptable to me. But I’m working on it. I know more about your therapy than you do. So know. So. So staff. So so. So a lot of times organizations will, um, get bogged down in what I call a like. They think they’re fund-raising or they think their relationship building because they’re, you know, putting together a newsletter or, you know, an annual report. When I work with folks on that, that there’s only one you there’s only one Tony and Mary. And like some of my kinds, Larry, there’s only right there’s only one Larry or Galen are are the folks that I work with and and so you only you could build those relationships. There’s a lot of people who could do other things in your office, like, you know, the newsletters, this the social media that could update the contents of your website or something like that. And but there’s on ly one you. So when you are bogged down in this, either either two things one is you’re kind of bogged down in it because you’re expected to dio all the relationship building of fund-raising. And then you’re expected to dio all of the you know, the design and development of marketing materials and social media, or you’re doing those things because you’re a little hesitant to do the relationship thing, right? So sometimes people get into fund-raising positions, and they really that relationship building isn’t their forte. And, you know, they fall into these position and they confined administrative things, Teo time. And then they wonder why they didn’t make their money creating goals on DH there moves goals by the end of the year because they’ve because they’re not comfortable doing it s o They found distraction. Yeah, eso and non-profits tend to value money and not time. So they said we were gonna watch every dollar, but we have plenty of time, right, so we can weaken we can have all the time. So we’re gonna work people really long hours. And then because we’re going to keep all that in house, well, we could do that here. We could do that in house and what that does, is it, You know, Yeah, You’re saving money by not sending that out. But the money that you’re losing because of the because those folks, those that they’re geniuses relationship building, let them build relationships, because then they’re going to be generating the income, you know, and then offloading some of those, those duties, that anyone you look at this and say it, and I’m not saying like all too because, like, you know, at my old company five one Creative, I worked with a very awesome team of designers and developers, so nothing anyone could do anything. I’m just saying, what is what is your genius right? What is your gift and are? And is that your primary focus of your job is practicing those gifts because in the end, that is going to move your organization farther. You also make a point of saying, if you don’t have expertise in house, you’re gonna have to spend the money, tio by it. Freelance consulting. Any of the sites that match a big potential volunteers. Yes, but you’ve got to get the expertise you don’t have that you need. Yeah, and, you know, you could learn how to build a website, but then you’re never going to replicate that point. Don’t spend your time don’t spend. And so so yeah, So bring those people in, have them help you in boost you. And I realized when I started my company, I looked around. I said, what makes a successful business? And those people were spending a lot of time and a lot of money and a lot of investment into the professional development of their company and themselves. And I look and I see the same thing. And non-profits they’re bringing people in right there, ringing the highest level, thinking that they confined into really push them forward in a way that they couldn’t have gotten gotten themselves. And then they’re seeing a lot of benefit from that investment. Yes, You have to. You you can’t. Another guest on a couple weeks ago, it was December. You can’t be expert and everything. And there’s no point in learning things right. You don’t need to do what your genius at. Yeah, you’re wasting your time. You’re taking time away from your genius, right? You think you’re saving, but in the end, it’s costing you a lot more. We got about thirty seconds. Encourage us wrap it up and encourage. Yes. So you know, right now, it’s kind of a crazy time. You know, politically. Onda lot of non-profits are really kind of flipping into fear, right? And so, my I’m gonna encourage them to start scanning the world for the possibilities and the abundance around them and creating this brand of attraction so that they can keep that positive energy coming towards them. So that because all these types of our world is uncertain everyday. So when we’re certain of the direction we’re going, we can cope with that a lot. A lot, a lot more easily. Outstanding. You’ll find her at Marianne dash dot com. There’s an e at the end of Marianne, and she’s at Mary and, er sh thank you very much. Thank you for having me. This pleasure. Wonderful. And for insiders, Marianne has time effectiveness tips that we’re gonna talk about. Plus, you’re going to see the shoes next week, walks and runs with Emily Parks. If you missed any part of today’s show, I’d be seat you Find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuing by what you see piela is guiding you. Beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com By Tello’s Credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream Tony dahna slash Tony Tello’s and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A great of producer was Clam Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by Scott Stein With me next week for Non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent Go out and be great buy-in. You’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving. You could. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in center of attention. Tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned Potential live life Your way on talk radio dot N Y c. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. You like comic books and movie howbout TV and pop culture. Then you’ve come to the right place. Hi, I’m Michael Gulch, a host of Secrets of the Sire, joined every week by my co host, Hassan, Lord of the Radio Godwin. 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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with Stone Battal Gia If I had two mouths. The words you missed today’s show donor-centric to keep your donor’s think and act like successful private sector companies. Curtis Bingham is founder of the chief customer officer counsel and a multi award winning customers success strategist. Conveying corporate methods to non-profits I’m Tony Steak, too. The reason to be an insider. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled twenty dahna slash pursuant by Wet your CPA’s guiding you beyond the numbers. Weinger cps dot com Bye. Tell us Attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us, and by text to give mobile donations made. Easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine I’m very glad that I can welcome Curtis Bigham to the show. Curtis End Bingham. He is recognized as the world’s foremost authority on chief customer officers, having helped more than two hundred from Coca Cola nationwide. MetLife, Oracle, JetBlue and other marquee companies. He helps build an explicit link between customers, success and the business value. Curtis is the founder and CEO of the chief customer. Officer Counsel, the first pure lead advisory group for see CEOs. The Council is that cco council dot or GE. And he’s at Curtis Bingham. Curtis. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Tony. Great to be here. Thanks to pleasure. You’re calling from Washington State, aren’t you? Just just outside of Seattle. It’s a rare sunny day here, so you don’t get a rare sunny day in the winter. I’m glad you’re with us. That’s right. Make you so, Curtis, you’ve you have consulted with Worked with Cem. Very high profile companies and brands. Um, I gather Ah, well, I know you will believe there are lots of lessons that non-profits can learn absolutely. I think it’s fascinating that some of the non-profits are now where a number of large private sector companies have been were, you know, ten twenty years ago where they started. Many of them started realizing that that they were losing Mohr customers out the back door than they were gaining in the front door. And, uh, and starting to realize that they really needed to start addressing the turn the revolving door out the back, because they just simply could not bring in enough new customers to replace those that they lost every year. And I think that, you know, based on the on my experience recently, I think that the Non-profit world is is kind of at that inflection point now where, where they really need to start focusing on on retaining donors rather than just trying to find new donors. Teo to keep their numbers up. I’ve had so many guests on talk about the difference in cost between retaining a donor and acquiring a new donor, and you’re not gonna have a lot of time to talk about retention. And that’s one of that’s the heart of your your customer centris ity. So that’s interesting. So you feel companies are fifteen or twenty years ahead of non-profits in this in this learning curve? Some of them some of them? Yes, some of them know, you know, fifteen to twenty years is is kind of about the threshold when when when people really start in the commercial sector, really started focusing on on on customer retention and customer issues. And, you know, that was about when I started started really diving into working with chief customer officers on. And it was, you know, it’s kind of fascinating. The very first one was out of Texas New Mexico power almost fifteen years ago, almost twenty years ago. Now it was a public utility company where they recognised that they, uh, that that customers have to have a voice. We have to give a voice to our customers in order to in order to keep them longer. And the rest of the industry started started tagging along, and it was a little bit nascent for a little while with the with the extreme customer focus. But it’s been in the last eleven years that that things have, really. They people have really, really focused on retaining customers almost as diligently and religiously as they are focusing on acquiring new customers. And that’s, you know, I’ve been doing working with the chief customer officer, counsel. I found it about eleven or twelve years ago. And, uh, and so that’s when. That’s when a lot of companies really, really started focusing on it and making it a priority, a sufficient priority that they have appointed an executive uniquely accountable to customers. Yeah, right, right, Theo, the chief customer officer, Who who are the customers of Non-profits? And I’m thinking donors, volunteers, potential donors. Are there others that I’m not thinking of? I think those are the those are the big ones and you know you’ve got within those ranks. You. I think a lot of people focus just on donors, but they miss all of the volunteers they don’t focus on on the volunteer experience, the volunteers who are the ones that were running the events and operating the events and helping Teo helping to bring in the money from from the individual donors. So it’s it’s. It’s fascinating to see that a lot of people forget that. But that’s a huge, huge piece that they need to be that cut that non-profits need to be paying attention to. In addition to just the just the people who give, you know, you can give of your time, you can give you your money and the people who do both or even more valuable to you. Yeah. Yeah. And we’re going to talk about you have some great strategies for stratify ing. The best people are that you need to pay the most attention to because, well, I don’t want to give away everything but, you know, you If you love everybody, you have to love. You can’t love everybody equally. We’re going to get to that, but you know they’re okay. But there are major brands that don’t stay customer centric and fade into irrelevance. You have a couple of examples. Just give us like a give us, like, two examples that have been just within the past. I don’t know. Twelve months or so of irrelevance. Major brands xero becoming irrelevant. Yeah. You know, there was had a fascinating conversation with the CMO of Panasonic a couple years ago, and he was while he was there. He’s since retired, but he asked a number of other company C M o’s Ah, In the high tech industry, what do you have a most afraid of And the CMO is the worst thing that they could imagine possible was that their brands could get lost in the noise and viewed as irrelevant by customers. And and and I think that it’s fascinating. Like you mentioned, a couple of big commercial sector companies have become irrelevant. You know, Sears declared bankruptcy last year. This was serious. Was was originally credited with removing racism fromthe shopping, eh? Experience because skin color disappeared when ordering from a catalog. And yet, you know, a few years ago, the Finance Year Eddie Lampert bought the company, milked all of the profits and refused to upgrade anything. And so now it’s a ghost town. And so they’ve They’ve dropped from twenty three hundred stores down to seven hundred, and they’re closing another seven hundred fifty. And, you know, I don’t know about you, but that’s your relevant in the minds on God. And as important as Ceres was, what? Like what? When did that catalog? I mean, is that? Is that one hundred year old company? I mean, Sears was serious, like the Amazon of its day. When the back in the catalogue day. Right? Right? Yeah, right. Yeah, there’s another one. There’s another one that G was. They used to own NBC Universal Studios, giant appliance company and one of America’s biggest bank. They were just late last year, removed from the Dow Jones industrial average after one hundred ten years. You know, there’s another great example of relevance. And then and then, you know, one of things that a lot of us have have run across here is this with the advent of uber and lift, and they’ve just kind of destroyed the taxi market that the medallions for the taxis in New York City, um, used to cost three hundred fifty thousand dollars originally cost. They now cost about three hundred fifty thousand dollars, but they were up to a million and right, and they’re all going there are going up in auction in foreclosure. I know people who know people who plan to retire on owning a medallion. You know, only a medallion or to have now seen that collapsed like fifteen or twenty per cent of its value. You hold your thoughts, Curtis. We take our first break will come. We’ll be right back pursuant a new free e book they have What’s that passes? They have a new free book. The Art of First Impressions. Do you need more donors? Uh, perhaps because you haven’t yet implemented Curtis’s ideas that we’re going to be talking about if Don’t acquisition is important to you. That’s what this is all about. It’s the sixth guiding principles of ineffective acquisition strategy. Howto identify your unique your unique value and use it, plus creative tips. Tony Dahna may slash pursuant with capital P for, please. All right, now, let’s go back to donor-centric. Alright. Thank you for that indulgence, Curtis. You were just you were just talking about We’re talking about taxi medallions. Extreme loss of value because of Yeah, the news. You know, there’s the sharing and gig economy. Yes. Look, I think that the thing that people are finding here is that no matter how big you are, no matter how great you once were, people are big. Even big companies, especially the big companies, are becoming irrelevant in the face of somebody else coming in and better meeting customer needs. And that’s. And that’s just that’s kind of a mantra. Now of if you don’t understand your customers Ah, and and your donor’s well, what makes them passionate? Then somebody else is going to tap into that passion and then leave you behind. You know, we all run the risk of irrelevance every day, and it’s accelerating because the barriers to entry are so low. It’s so easy for somebody to reach our donors now that I think that there’s there’s a real, a real risk of of non-profits becoming irrelevant if they’re not really, really care, keyed into and attuned to the donors needs and and the passions and and their expectations do this comparison form you have. Ah, really, Ah, lot of very interesting numbers. One I wantto Ah, highlight is, um, the comparison of the donor retention in non-profits with what the private sector small companies consider acceptable retention rates. Compare those two for me. Yeah, absolutely. So this is. This is kind of the leaky bucket syndrome here. According to last year’s study in the Fund-raising Effects treyz project, there’s overall. Across the industry, the overall donor attention is about forty five and a half percent, um, for the key donors that have been donating Ah year over year, that number is about sixty to seventy percent. Um, the acceptable private sector small company retention rate is about ninety three to ninety five percent, so there is a huge gap. You know, there’s a fifty percent gap here in between what we are experiencing in the nonprofit sector versus what is deemed acceptable, turn or eternal in the in the commercial sector. And and that makes it really, really hard for us to ah, for us to actually grow if we’re losing that many out out the back door. That overall retention number is just incredible to me, where the overall number of the forty five and a half percent we’re losing more than we’re keeping. Absolutely. Yeah, I understand. For major donors, it’s different. It’s it’s more like sixty seventy percent for higher level donors. But but that overall rate just just floors me and we have talked about this. I’ve had many guests on Latto, not China trying to overcome this, you know, with strategies. But no one has come with the corporate strategies that that you employ. And then again, major brands like JetBlue etcetera. Yeah, okay, what’s one more real quick point on this okay that I like due to just bring it home here is that is Let’s turn this into Let’s turn this into a practical reality here. So in order for us, if we’re dealing with a forty five and a half percent overall retention Um So what that means is that in order to grow by one customer, you have tow land fifty six new customers every year. We’re in order to road to go to grow by one. What, like go buy one year over year, you have tohave fifty six new ones. Yeah, but in order to have a net growth of one new customer, you’re over a year, you have to land fifty six in order to in order to grow in order, Teo, in order to get it up with one more costume this year than you had last year. Similarly, you know, if if the average donation is about forty forty dollars to grow by a dollar, you need to add two thousand four hundred twenty one dollars to have a net growth of one dollar every year. And so what that means is that we’re the non-profits here are just working simply working too hard just to stay afloat because they’re losing their leaking so much out of out of the bucket or losing too many people out the back door. Okay, you’ve got you’re donor-centric city strategy, which has four prongs to it. Why don’t you? You preview those, and then we’re going to go into detail on each one? Sure, absolutely. So there’s I think that there’s there’s four different things that that really need to be. That non-profits really need to focus on one of them is that Dahna retention is acknowledging and convincing everybody in the in the leadership, the donor retention is the easiest way to protect and grow revenue, you know? And then the second one here is Donorsearch. Imitation is absolutely critical to prioritize our investments in in our in our business. And then the third one here is donorsearch I Gration is the way that we grow profits, and we can talk about what, what exactly that means. And then, finally, the donor engagement is what absolutely drives the the fundamental and powerful results that we all want to show you. Okay? And I said, set them up. We were already into donorsearch tension, of course. Yep, you have again another interesting number that a two percent increase in retention will yield a ten percent decreasing costs. Is that because of the cast? Is that because of the cost of acquisition, right, that’s that’s absolutely the case. Okay, what we see here, there were some studies that were done, Ah, over the last the last number of years here where they where they found that if we a two percent gain in retention is the same as decreasing our costs by as much as ten percent. So a ten percent haircut across the board can be alleviated by just, ah to gain in retention. And why is that? It’s theirs. There’s a There’s a couple of things. It’s far, far less expensive to retain an existing customer than it is to gather to get a new one, right? We know that, and you know it’s anywhere from, you know, to seventeen percent Mohr. Ah, more expensive to acquire to acquire new ones. And the existing customers are are eighty percent more likely to buy again. Ah, because after they’ve already crossed that first hurdle. And so the donors, it’s exactly the same thing. They don’t if they’ve donated in the past there far, far more likely to donate again. But we’re not leveraging them as well as we could. Yes. Okay. Okay. So let’s let’s get smarter about leveraging them. Let’s go to segmentation where this is something we’ve had other guests talk about, too. But you have a little different spin on it. What? Explain it, please. Yeah, Yeah. So one of the things that I like to show on in a presentation here is a collection of of ten men, all in the same suit. Some of them are tall, Some are short, some of her heavy set, some of her extraordinarily slender. And the suit on ly fits one person perfectly well, but it really doesn’t fit anybody else. And so you know the point that that that this makes here is that not all of our customers are created equally, and it’s astronomically expensive for a clothier to tailor the suit. Absolutely everyone. And as much as we’d like to give everyone the perfect fitting suit, we have to be more selective. And so what that means is that we have to be more selective in who we choose to choose to serve, we may be able to create a suit that fits instead of ten people. Maybe it Maybe it fits five, and with a little tiny bit of tailoring, we can make it work for this group of five. But it would be astronomically expensive Teo to address the other, the other five. So the private companies come. Private sector companies have become very selective through this notion of segmentation, which is a division into discrete customer groups that share similar characteristics and and by aligning our, um ah ourselves around this notion of ah segmentation and allows us to do four things really well. It allows us to align people, align our purpose, a mission and values with those people that truly value those things. It allows us to be laser focused on this smaller group of people and figure out what air their unmet needs. And how can we deliver those needs that air more useful toe to this narrowly narrow group rather than a scattershot trying to be all things to all people? It allows us to with a segmentation. It allows us to get greater value from so from high profit individuals and lower profit individuals. And then it allows us if we do it right. You know, the best companies go beyond just segmenting according to how much money are they giving us? But they focus on need and behavior and and the potential to give us more money to donate more money or two participate with us in more ways. And so So the segmentation gives us a ah ah. Lot more room in which we can operate because we’re serving a smaller audience. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. And now, part of what you say in segmentation and it’s it’s it’s absorbed in what? In what you just said, just one make explicit is that, you know, if if we’re gonna love all our donors, we have to love some more because it just can’t be. It can’t be equivalent across. And that’s what you’re That’s what your ten guys in suits. Of course it could be. You know, maybe I should mix out. Maybe should have also beside that ten women in dresses that are only ill fitting that are ill fitting nine, But absolutely Okay. Okay, so But what that means then under buy-in intended. Okay, I understand, but So what that means is, you know, in an impact. I’m thinking, you know, as the guy who doesn’t fly very much me, You know, I’m the one who never gets the upgrade. You know, I have a hotel brand Marriott. I’m very loyal to them, so they take care of me. But if I stay at a Hilton, I don’t get, you know, I don’t get the upgrades. So what you did say, though, that you did mention people at the bottom or the smaller donors there’s there is something for them to so make me make me feel good about this segmentation process. Yeah, You know, this this is this is one of the hardest challenges with with tearing and with segmentation and tearing is that everybody wants to be Ah wants to treat all of our customers equal and and as much as we would love to, we just simply can’t There are not enough resource is there’s not enough people in our organization. There’s not enough money in our organization to treat everybody the same. And so we have to be precisely because we love our customers. We actually have to treat them differently. We have to love some of them Mohr and and the the The reason for this is that loving some of them Mohr enables us to fulfill our mission. It remains it enables us to remain a going concern. We have to focus on those we absolutely cannot afford to lose. So ah, great example of this is the oxygen masks that come down in the what in the or the or that are talked about coming down in the onboarding airline instruction. Even though a lesson even those of us in coach economy. We still get Air Basques, you know, waiting for the time you’ve got to put a quarter in to get the oxygen mask. It’s kind of like putting the quarter in to use the restroom, right? For all of you know, for all the change. I can’t. I mean, I hope they take cards. When that happens, I think I can swipe and then I get the oxygen drop down. Okay. Yeah. So? So the notion here is that they want you to make sure that you take care of the less advantaged First, you know, the children, the elderly, whatever the infirm, so so that you can you want to make sure that they take? I’m sorry. You gotta take care of things here. Yeah, yeah. Good care of yourself first, because you’re no good to anybody next to you if you’ve gone loopy or if you passed out because the time of useful consciousness here on the airplane, if they in a case of rapid depressurization is thirty to sixty seconds or less, you know, fifteen seconds. And so you have to take care of yourself first so that you can take care of others. And so when you come back to ah, looking at our donors in order to keep serving all of our customers, we have to be able to take care of of some of our best customers first, because they keep, they pay the bills, they keep the lights on and enable us to do to serve some of our other customers or donors that may not be paying quite as much. Um, you know, there’s a there’s a great ah, great example of ah, large non-profit here. Who? Who said that every month there’s a there’s a sweet little lady that’s writing out a check for a dollar. Fifty a check for a dollar fifty, and and we’d love her to death. But it actually cost us more to process that. Then the cheque is worth. And so we lover, We want her to continue because it feels good for her, and we love her attitude, inner spirit. But we also need to focus on those on those donors that are going to keep the light on. And when we do that, That gives us the opportunity to create initiatives to create value that trickles down through the organization and that everybody benefits and also subsidizes the processing of that dollar fifty check and the and the acknowledgement letter that goes out to her right. So it enables us another worst thing would be to, say, return that cheque and say, I’m sorry, we don’t want your money. I mean, that would be that would be devastating to that that sweet old woman or two. Not more traumatic or to not acknowledge it, because you just never know if that dollar fifty year donor on that’s a really extreme example. I’ve never really even seen e-giving that small, but but I’ve seen certainly lots of ten and fifteen dollars year donors and they can become your your plan gift donor zoho be the person who dies. You don’t know it because you’re not close to them. You’ve been acknowledging they’re they’re very small gifts, but you don’t know that they died until you get a notice of probate and you find out that there in your will and you have your residual beneficiary. And it’s a very it’s a five million dollar estate. There’s some small, outright bequest to some distant cousins, and you’ve got fifty percent of the residual that’s left. That is not that uncommon you. So just as coming strictly from you come from the corporate side, and I know that you’re not saying, Ignore those people who give ten dollars a year. But you have to treat them differently and not as can’t spend as much time with them as you do the higher level names. I understand that. But I would never say Don’t acknowledge that even dollar and a half a year donor-centric Q. Because you just never know what else might be there. Okay, Just shout out from the from the from the fund-raising side. But you’re not. Not that you’re antithetical to fund-raising I’m not suggesting that at all. Just just bringing in the plant e-giving side. That’s all. Okay, um, we just have about, like, two minutes before a break. Give me a couple of strategies for how we can show that love. On any level. Any level. Yeah, yeah. One of the things that that’s that’s really fascinating here. Problem. Before we dive into that question, here is its figure. Who are your best customers? Your best donors. You know, we look att att these folks by how much money that they’re giving. We also need an add add another dimension of that which is how passionate are they buy-in about your cause. They may not be giving you the most money, but they may be absolutely one hundred percent passionate. And those air really useful to Corral and Teo to invite into the tent, if you will, so that you can invite them to help you invite them to participate in AA in a bunch of your activities. Because they may not be able to give you give you a lot of money. They may be able to give you connections and time and and introductions that could be hugely valuable to you. Okay, we’re going to take this break, and then when we come back, I’m goingto ask Curtis How you how you start to How do you identify those? Those critical to keep donors. When you see piela, they’re kicking off a remote non-profit roundtable Siri’s each quarter a Wagner CPAs C P a bona fide will cover a topic that they know intimately, and you need to know basic understanding. Last week was revenue recognition for grants and contracts. You can watch that archive video at weger cps dot com. Click Resource is then seminars. Now time for Tony’s. Take two. You want to be a non-profit radio insider? It’s time. Why is that exclusive content NUFER The New Year I’m kicking off expanded guest interviews that are exclusively for non-profit radio insiders. Each week, I’m going to go deeper into a topic with the guest. We’re going to do this with Curtis when when the show is over or cover something that we didn’t talk about on the show Curtis and I are going to talk about is he’s got an exercise that we’re going to talk about in the insider video. Now that sounds like something that would be behind a Paywall. And for many podcasters. Maybe it is, but not this one. There’s no pay. Absolutely not so But I do ask you to do is be an insider. I want you to get the weekly insider alerts, and the way to do that is go to tony martignetti dot com and click the Insider alerts button. That’s it. That’s the way to gain your access to exclusive these private five minute videos that are going to be producing for insiders. Now let’s get back to Curtis Bingham and Donor-centric Donor-centric City. All right, Curtis. How do we identify those who are critical to keep? I think it begins with, like, Like I said, obviously we’re looking at some of the metric we may be looking at segmenting our donor’s based on, you know, dollar contribution, recency frequency, volume, whatever that those air traditional metrics here, but there’s there’s a there’s a different, um, different scale toe. Add to the mix here, and that is, you know, passionate. How passionate are they about your about your mission? Are they donating to you because they because it’s mandated by the company, are they? Or do they have a loved one that is, you know, that may have been suffering from cancer or leukemia o. R. Or whatever it is, you know. Are they passionate because they have a family involved in, uh, in the in the benefits that directly benefits from the from the charity? So, you know, it’s it’s really there’s There’s any number of ways in which we in which you could assess that passion, whether it’s through surveys or direct contact or or you know, our Albert calls or, you know, executive executive meetings, whatever the cases. But looking at, they’re at their passion and figure out who are the most passionate. Ah, even though they may not be giving the largest amount of money. And then you look at at a slice at one Mohr way here and that’s looking at Where are they donating? Are they donating, you know, dollar to you in a dollar to somebody else and a dollar to somebody down there down the road more? Are they donating everything, all of their discretionary income to you? And so if you put those on a on A on a force where four square box with passionate about your mission over the top and dedicated donations over to the right, the most valuable people are those people. The most valuable customers or our donors are those that are absolutely passionate about your mission, and they don’t get it. They don’t donate. They don’t spread around their donations. They are donating everything that they have over to, Ah, over to you. And that’s that’s this notion of share of wallet What percentage of a customer spending our donors donations is captured by your brand or your or your firm. And so it’s really valuable. Lot of the best private sector companies here. Commercial sector companies here are really starting to do this segmentation by share of wallet because it shows some very fascinating things, and it uncovers people who are really valuable to your company that that may not have shown up and just be in just sheer dollar volume contributed. And this this wallet share gives us a really fascinating way of looking at our at our donors and figuring out which ones we need to keep, which ones we need to grow and which ones just really. There’s too much competition. Let them go, too, to somebody else. Tio. Thank them for whatever donations that they’re doing. But don’t spend an inordinate amount of money trying to convince them to donate more because they never will. How our company’s measuring share of wallet How are they learning that it’s there’s a There’s a really interesting way of ah, of measuring it. You know, there’s a number of really different, really complex calculations that some of the big companies are doing. But there was a really fascinating article that came out was published in The Wall Street Journal in I’m Sorry, the Harvard Business Review Rather in two thousand eleven, and it talks about the wall allocation rule and I’m happy to send. Send people a link to that if they if they’re interested in receiving this and walking through it. But it was based on a study of one hundred seventy thousand customers over two years, and they found that the share of wallet was very highly correlated with actual purchases in A in a commercial sector. And what they found was that they went just really briefly. What they did was they looked at for each brand or each non-profit what are the the the relevant, the perfectly relevant competing brands that people are choosing to donate metoo and then you, you do a survey. You Ah, you. You call them up, whatever. And you get them to measure to describe how much they are contributing to each of these different different non-profit organizations, and then you convert that into a rank, and the computation is very is very straightforward. And so you get you, you, Khun marry that with a kind of an estimated money that they’re giving to competing brands. And you can. You can calculate the share of wallet, and it’s a fantastically easy back of the envelope. Method for calculating share of wallet And it gives you workable information that you Khun then used in in prioritizing your spending to Trier to acquire and retain some of these donors. That just it just makes a lot of sense to me that the ones you wantto focus on the most are those that are giving you the largest share of their disposable income. Or maybe maybe it was their charitable dollars. Maybe have to narrow it down to that. All right. Yeah. All right. Yeah, I’m okay. I want to make sure we get everything there’s. So let’s move to migration. Getting getting people, getting people, getting people more Mohr. Well, moving them over, moving them over to the today, I think, to the right of that quadrant that you described and and ultimately to the to the to the upper to the upper right. Yeah, the the this this is fascinating because, you know, like you said, the big question is how do we migrate them from one bucket to the to the other? How do we make them more passionate about our cause? How do we get a larger share of wallet? And and this actually came out of some work that Hillary noon and of who is now a pursuant. Ah, and I worked on a number of years ago. She when she was American Cancer Society and she was really interested in How do you retain and activate donors and volunteers and at the time and still is to some extent, loyalty was all the rage, but but But it didn’t really tell us anything. Um, you know, Net promoter score. A lot of people are using this net promoter score, which is your willingness to recommend a brand Teo somebody else. It didn’t really tell us anything because it measures some intense take future action. And, you know, St Jude’s was a great example here. Were with their net promoter scored. Nobody will give anything but a ten. Everybody gives them attend because even though a service interaction might have been miserable, If you give anything less than a ten, it’s a knock against the kids, and you just simply don’t know the kid. So we interviewed a number of CCO Council members, and we found that NPS, the Net promoter score, doesn’t actually measure behavior. But engagement does. And so this this notion of of customer engagement was was built up here, and we found that it. Actually, if we the more we engage your customers, the more likely they are to collaborate with us, advocate with us and and and donate money to us. And so So this notion here is, um, you know, customer engagement here is we defined. I define it as the extent of a customer’s willingness to invest his or her discretionary time with a company for mutual benefit. So how willing if a company of if a person is really engaged, they’re willing to help you do things, they’re willing to collaborate with you. They’re willing to participate in your activities to help with fund-raising. They’re willing to make introductions. They’re willing to do things on your behalf, and then how do we measure it? It’s the measurement is the sum of all of the activities that build a positive, positive emotional attachment between a company and and customers, and that results in greater involvement, greater advocacy and greater revenue and profit. And so, you know, there’s a There’s a couple of things that that people have done to engage. Engage your customers. So so you have to have the basic blocking and tackling, right? You can’t. You can’t be treating customers poorly. But once you’ve got the basic blocking tackling right, then you can start engaging in them. How can you get them to collaborate with you? What can you do to actually, What can you ask them to do to help you with? If they help you, they arm or invested in your success. So are we talking? Are we talking about small things? Like just sign a petition, call a congressman? Things like things like that to start. Yes. And Mohr OK, I think that getting them to do something for you creates this. This need for reciprocity. Um, they the more that you can get them to do for you, the more inclined they are to, um you want to support you. And so when When? When we were together. Ah, A little bit ago at at pursuance conference, I talked to a number of the non-profits that were there, and and there was a couple of really great examples. I mean, one of them, there was one non-profit there who would have you received a call from someone after a podcast saying, Hey, the noise quality on your podcast has really deteriorated. I’m a sound engineer. It’s really bothering me. Can I come and help you fix the problem? And so they said, Well, of course. And they came in. The gentleman came in spend a day crawling underneath all of the cabinets and countertops and fixed, replaced a bunch of replaced on board some wires and and electronics and solve the problem for them. And that’s something that they didn’t have the capability of doing. Now you look at this on the another dream there is another. There was another non-profit there that I could hold on. You hold that example because I gotta take a break. But before, I don’t want to make explicit that thie podcast The person was complaining The sound of was not twenty. Martignetti non-profit radio that was some non-profit had not, Not not non-profit. Okay, tell us, can you use more money? Do you need an additional revenue source? You want to diversify revenue, you get a long stream of passive revenue. When companies you refer to tell us process their credit card transactions through Tello’s, you watch the video and then send potential companies that you could refer to watch that same video You get the long stream the fifty percent of the fee for each transaction that Tello’s processes. And that adds up the video. Is that tony dot m a slash Tony Tello’s We got to do the live listener love. And there is ah lot Tampa, Florida Adelanto, California Wilmington, Wilmington, North Carolina, Brooklyn, New York, New York, New York, Northvale, New Jersey Very close to where I grew up in old Japan. Live love to each of those cities. Wilmington special shout out to you, of course, North Carolina. But the love is see that I can’t do it. Equal, limited, egalitarian Lee. Equally, Curtis has a word. Equanimity, equanimity, But Quinn Emelius Lee, because I just, you know, I live in North Carolina, so that’s there in the like that in the upper quad to the upper right quadrant. But then the live love goes out to everybody else, too. From Adelanto, California to Tampa, Florida and Brooklyn, New York and New York, New York. All right, let’s go abroad to ah, wow! Taipei, Taiwan and Beijing China Knee How Teo to our listeners, they’re Islamabad, Pakistan, Seoul, South Korea. On your haserot comes a ham Nida in Savi, Edo, Japan. Konnichi Wa, Hanoi, Vietnam. Tehran, Iran. Sudan is with us. I don’t believe we’ve had to. Sudan Listener Live love to each of those live listeners in who are abroad and the podcast pleasantries, the vast majority of our audience over thirteen thousand listeners each week. The podcast listeners pleasantries to you. I am grateful and thankful that you are with us week after week after week after week. You’re sticking with us because it’s great value. I mean, there’s like there’s about your questioning. I’m just, ah, having some fun pleasantries to the podcast audience right now. Back to Curtis Bingham. Who, Curtis. You have another example of a non-profit engagement and migration? Yeah, there was there was one person there at the at the event. There was one non-profit here that that there ah, there are a number of their large donors were brought in to help them create a donor survey program. There was another one that had a fantastic example where they brought in a number of employees from Amazon to take a tour of their of their warehouse facility and the Amazon employees. They asked the vast Amazon if they had any advice for them in how to improve their logistics. And Amazon brought in a team of their own warehouse logistics managers and in a couple of days just completely redesigned their their warehouse, using all of the best practices that Amazon has developed over over the years. You know, another great example is that there is one one non-profit has a number of technology corporate partners, and they were able to go to them and say, What is the bait? The best online HR system that you have found and and they had intended to spend. I’m doing some research on this, and the company came back said, Look, we’ve already done The research here is the best one. We’ll even help you implement it. And so, you know, the real question for you is you’re trying to engage your donors is to think about what can you ask them to do for you? How can you help in engage them in helping you fulfill your mission? You know it can be small, like fixing the fixing some of the audio on your podcast. It can be large to helping implement a large AARP system or revamping your warehouse logistics. But the thing is, how can you ask people to help? And one of things that I think people are afraid to do is ask people for help. They’re getting really good at asking people to donate, but they’re afraid of asking people for help. And yet, asking people to help you is allows them to go beyond just kind of a passive donate donate or to someone who’s actively engaged when they’re actively engaged in collaborating with you. They’re more likely to advocate for you. And then it’s not just about telling them, Go talk, go tell your friends and family or bring them to some sort of a you know, Black Tie fund-raising event. It’s here, introduced me to these people or talk to the CEO of this company here. That’s that’s possibly that’s considering making our charity a corporate, you know, a corporate sponsorship. And so, so once they are more eager to collaborate with you, they’re Mohr eager to ah, to be very vocal and advocate for you. And that’s when they start changing their behaviour and donating Mohr and staying longer, donating and advocating. As you said Now, Tio, know what people want to be engaged in where their interests lie. You need to be listening. And you you mentioned possibly surveying for for for for those high level, most engaged owners, the ones in the upper right quadrant that maybe personal meetings, personal face-to-face meetings where you’re finding out what it is that moves the person. Is that Is that your research? Is that your advocacy is that your your program for survivors of domestic abuse? Is that your mental health work? You know What is it that moves them that then you can engage them. You know, appropriately, with opportunities that at least are, you know, we’re going to appeal. Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, this is This is it’s very, very easy to do. There’s a There was an article that was published in the Harvard Business Review just this month that talks about how easy it is to figure out why customers buy from you. Um, and in ten twelve interviews, you confined out the five six reasons why customers buy from you, Ah, and and be able to articulate them better than anybody inside your company ever could. And the same thing could apply here in five or six interviews ten interviews with with some of your most valuable donors. You could find out the hot buttons that you need to start pushing in all of your marketing communications in all of your your your your donor meetings of the hot button that you push on social media in your advertisements. And when. Once you know those hot buttons because you’ve listened to them, you heard it directly from them. You’re far more likely to capture those passion and bring those. Bring them in. You’ve twice. Now you’ve mentioned Harvard Business Review. I have to stop reading U S. A. Today. I think I need to step up. I’ll step up my another another mix. OK. All right. Yes. Diversify. Diversify. Okay, um, so have we. You feel like I mean, just for the hour. We have to wait before I get that. Where’s your book? How come I can’t referred listeners to a book that you’ve written that that covers all this? I’ve been threatening to write a book forever, and and I I acknowledge that I have been remiss in working on too many things. That’s the problem that I have is that I have too many great ideas and and not enough. Not enough assistance, I think, Teo, capture them all and and take advantage of all of the brilliant ideas that are on the cutting room floor. Yeah, no kidding. My God, man, I break last break. Hoexter give. Can you use more money? Another revenue source down. He’s a second way Mentioned one before. You know the way of diversifying mobile e-giving you can learn about it with text to gives very simple five part email, Many course over five days. One e mail a day. You’re only five emails away from raising money through mobile giving. Or at least learning more about it. Lots of misconceptions. Um, so to start the many course, where do you go? You What do you do? You text n pr. November, Papa. Romeo. Two, four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. All right, we’ve got several more minutes before we hit the rap with with Donor-centric and Curtis. OK, All right. So I’ve admonished you about the book. I’m sure I’m not the first person to tell you earlier, monisha if you had one, I would be telling listeners, they gotta buy it. All right. So have we covered migration and engagement satisfactorily? Anything more you want to say about those? Yeah, really, really quick. There’s a couple of things that, um that you can weaken look at in in collaboration and advocacy. So, you know, I have some more resource is if anybody’s interested that talk about some of the ways in which you can collaborate, you really quickly you can get feedback from them. You know, whether it’s advisory board, focus group, you can involve Minya strategic planning process, cubine involvement, innovation activities or excess. Ours is you can enlist their services to help mutually support other other other donors, other customers, other volunteers, you know, participate in in in a lot of your your fund-raising activities and make introductions and so on advocacy, you know, you could use them in your used them in marketing, put put together the stories of why people are donating and, uh, and put him in your marketing. Um, let them generate help generate your marketing. MetLife did a great job of this a little while back where they put together a, They asked some of their their customers to write a letter to the to a family member, describing why it’s so important for everybody to have life insurance. Why, it’s so important for this family member to have life insurance, and they didn’t actually end up running the ads with them. But they got really rich information as to how people view this. This tired old thing called life. And so, you know, how can you use them to help you win your promotions and your marketing? You know what kind of doors, Khun? They open for you. What? How can they help you on social media? What can they do, Teo? Generate content and ideas and donation opportunities for you. So a lot of different ways in which you can get them. You can collaborate and advocate. Okay, Awesome. We still have several minutes left together. So what? What? Have I not asked you satisfactorily that waken going tomb or or something we haven’t covered? What? We still got time left. I think I think you’ve covered. Covered most everything here. I think that you’re kind of the the things to the takeaways here. Is that as much as as sexy as it is to continue focusing on bringing in new new donors every year. You really, really have to start focusing on retaining the year exists thing stopping that revolving door, um, and and we need to figure out how to keep our top tier donors. You know, we one of the things that that we looked at here is, you know, kind of in the share of wallet we talked about, talked a little bit earlier about, you know, segmenting the customers by share of wallets. And there’s a group of customers that you need to focus to focus on retaining. You know, just don’t do anything wrong. They’ll stay with you forever because they have a very high share of wallets. There’s a there’s a group that you have to focus to protect, to make sure that other nonprofit organizations don’t get in there and and lead them away. And then there’s a group that you should that you need to focus on growing because they have, ah, high potential share of wallet. But there’s there’s also this this notion here that, you know, there’s there’s There’s a big thing that people do in the non-profit, which is to share their donor lists. And for these, these categories of customers here, the segments of customers that you’re focusing on retaining and protecting and growing man for the love of God. Don’t share those names on that list. Oh, my God. What? Anybody hearing that you’re destroying that share of wallet? Yeah. Lower tiers. Oh, my God. Sure. Away. Yeah. Yeah. But don’t share these names here because because you want to capture more sure of wallet. You don’t want to incite them. Or in our invite them, too, to go back and and disperse their payments because everybody deserves something. Yeah. Now that well in the sharing of lists also has privacy concerns around it. You know, I don’t know that that seems like a risky that’s that just that sharing of any of any names like that. That sounds like a a risky proposition if if a donor figures that out even even even a low level donor-centric fied, they’ll tell ten people hyre. Right. All right, all right. Cars were going, Tio. We’re gonna leave it there. And so you you offered lots of resource is so I will remind people that they can get you. Ah, Twitter at Curtis Bingham for additional resource is because the man hasn’t written a book. I don’t know. I’m surprised I even had you on No I want to thank you very much. Thank you so much for sharing great ideas. Thank you. Thank you. Been delightful. And for insiders that the additional content is going to be an engagement exercise, Curtis and I are going to share with you next week. Courageous communication with Mary and er sh If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, Find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuing Curtis gave them a very good shot out. All technology enabled. Data driven. Absolutely. Bye weinger SEPA is guiding you beyond the numbers. Weinger cps dot com By Telus Credit Card and Payment Processing your passive revenue stream Tony dahna slash Tony Tello’s and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine Our Creative Producers Clan miree Off Sam Leibowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York They’re with me next week for Non-profit Radio Big non-profit Ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Duitz. Metoo. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get you thinking. Cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative now, are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi. I’m nor in Santa potentially eight. Tune in every Tuesday at nine. To ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show Yawned Potential live life your way on talk radio dot N y c. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. You like comic books and movie howbout TV and pop culture. Then you’ve come to the right place. Hi, I’m Michael Gulch, a host of Secrets of the Sire, joined every week by my co host, Hassan, Lord of the Radio Godwin. Together we have over fifteen years experience creating graphic novels, screenplays and more. Join us as we bring you the inside scoop on the pop culture universe you love to talk about. Wednesday nights eight p. M. Eastern Talk radio dot and lives. Thie. Best designs for your life Start at home. I’m David here. 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Nonprofit Radio for January 11, 2019: Zombie Loyalists
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Peter Shankman: Zombie Loyalists
Peter Shankman is a well-known and often-quoted social media, marketing and public relations strategist. His book is “Zombie Loyalists.” He wants you to create rabid fans who do your social media, marketing and PR for you. He’s got super ideas and lots of valuable stories. I like to play this each year. (Originally broadcast 12/19/14)
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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of Hypo Foria if I saw that you missed today’s show. Zombie loyalists. Peter Shankman is a well known and, uh, often quoted social media marketing and public relations strategist. His book is Zombie loyalists. He want you to. He wants you to create rabid fans who do your social media, marketing and PR for you. He’s got super ideas, lots of interesting stories. I like to play this each year. Originally aired on December of twenty fourteen on Tony Steak, too. Time to be an insider, responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash Pursuing by Wagner. CPS Guiding you Beyond the numbers. Brechner cps dot com By Tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine Here is Peter Shankman and Zombie Loyalists. I’m very glad Peter Shankman is with me in the studio. He is the founder of Haro Help, a reporter out connecting journalists with sources in under two years from starting it in his apartment. Laura was sending out fifteen hundred media queries a week, two more than two hundred thousand sources worldwide. It was acquired by Vocus in two thousand ten. He’s the founder and CEO of the Geek Factory, a boutique social media marketing and PR strategy firm in New York City. Peters on NASA’s Civilian Advisory council. Well, you’ll find him at shanklin dot com, and he’s at Peter Shankman on Twitter. His latest book is Zombie Loyalists, using great service to create rabid Fans. I’m very glad his book brings him to Non-profit Radio and the studio. Welcome, Peter. Get to be here, honey. Thanks. Pleasure. You live on the west side of Manhattan and you and you. There’s a There’s a pretty well known five star steakhouse. I’ll get Wolfgang’s not far from, you know, but you pass it to go to a different steakhouse, right? Morton’s Correct. Why is that more? I’m a zombie loyalist to Morton’s. What does that mean? I I love the service. The attention to detail, the quality, the sort of where everyone knows my name mentality. When I walk into that Morton’s or any Mortons around the world, they have a tremendous custom relationship management system. When I call one number in New York or anywhere in the world, it they know who I am by my cell phone. And I’m treated with just, you know, phenomenal. Uh, happiness toe here for me and my wishes are granted is aware that we have any happy hour holiday party coming up at Morton’s next couple days. And you know, as always, I forgot to call and make a reservation. You know, I called yesterday and said, Hey, I need a and she has to get a reservation for seven people. Now, you know, there’s a night at, uh, seven p. M. Which is, you know, the week of holidays. And they looked and they said, Oh, well. And then I guess their computer system kicked in. Of course, Mr Schenk non-profit I’ll get that for you right away. You know how it will have a great booth for you, That a lot, you know, and we’ll tell us names the people attending and, you know, you know, you know they’re going to specialize, menus for them and their names on. They really They have ah, really high level of service that they provide. Not just to me. That’s the beauty of it. You know, it’s one thing for everybody. Yeah, it’s one thing if they just provided to me. But they do that for everyone, and that is huge because, you know, being able to call when a normal person makes a reservation and not that I’m special, I’m actually rather abnormal. But what a normal person makes a reservation and says, No more tests. Okay, greater. You celebrating anything? So yeah, it’s my wife’s birthday waiting. Always ask after anyone said, Oh, you know what, It’s my wife’s birthday. Great. What’s her name? And her name’s Megan, whatever. And you go in and they and you sit down on the on the menu. It has happened, but they make it. And then Megan, whoever she happens to be, well, in the next forty five minutes, you know, taking fifty selfies with her menu and that’ll go online. And when her friends, you know, want that same experience, they’re going to go Morton’s you say in the book, You get the customers you want by being beyond awesome to the customers you have. And that’s why I want to start with that Morton’s story, which is in the middle of the book. But they do it for everybody, and then they have the VIPs as well. And there’s the terrific story of you tweeting going to tell that story. That’s a good story. But it’s a good story. Love stories. I was flying home from a day trip to Florida and was exhausted and starving, and they trip meaning you’re flying down a canoe down to six a. M. Lunch meeting flew back. Same day, you know, one of those one of those days. And, ah, I jokingly said The tweet. Hey, Morton’s What? You meet me at Newark airport when I land with a porterhouse in two hours. Ha ha ha ha ha! Um, you know, I said it the same way you’d say winter. Please stop snowing things like that. And I landed, Find my driver and said Next My driver is a is ah, waiter in a tuxedo with the Mortons back, they saw my tweet. They put it together. They managed to bring me a a steak and and, you know, as great of a story, is it? Is it that’s that’s It’s a great stunt, and it’s a great story, and it wasn’t staged. It was completely amazing. But, you know, that’s not what they’re about. They’re not about delivering steaks to airports. They’re about making a great meal for you and treating you like world when you come in. And, you know, if they just did that, if they just delivered the stake, the airport but their quality and service sucked, you know, it wouldn’t be a store. So you know what they did for Peter. But you know, my steak’s cold, you know? So what it really comes down to is the fact they do treat everyone like kings, and that’s that’s really, really important because what winds up happening, you have great experience in Borden’s. And then you tell the world, you know, Oh, yeah. Great dinner last night. That was amazing. I would totally there again. And as we moved to this new world where you know review sites are going away and I don’t I don’t need to go to yelp reviews and people I don’t know and you know if they’re shills. Whatever the case may be, I don’t know or trip advisor. Same thing. I want people in my network who I trust and people in their network who they trust. Then by default, I trust so and that’s going to that’s already happening automatically. You know, when I when I land in L. A and I type in steakhouse, you know, not me. I know I know where the steak house on telly. But if someone typed into Google Maps or Facebook Steak House in Los Angeles, you know, they’ll see all the steakhouses on Google map. But if any of their friends have been to any of them, they’ll see those first. And if they had a good experience, only if the sentiment positive will they see those first. And that’s pretty amazing, because if you think about that, the simple act of tweeting out of photo Oh, my God. Thanks so much more in love. This. That’s positive sentiment. The network knows that. And so if you’re looking for a steak house, you know and your friend six months ago had that experience. Oh, my God. Amazing state. This great place. The sentiment will be there. And and and the network will know that network will show you that steakhouse because you trust your friend. And this is where we start to cultivate zombie loyalists. Exactly is through this awesome customer service of the customers. You you have say more about something. Yeah. I mean, you have so many companies out there who are trying to get the next greatest customer. You know, You see all the ads, you know, the Facebook post. You know, we’re at nine hundred ninety. Followers are ten are one thousand. Follower gets a free gift. Well, that’s current saying screw you to the original nine hundred ninety followers Who you had who were there since the beginning. We don’t care about you. We want that one thousand. You know, that’s not cool. The the companies who see their numbers rise and you see their fans increase in there. There. Ah, revenues go up are the ones who are nice to the customers they have. Hey, you know, customer eight. Fifty two. It was really nice of you to join us a couple months ago. How do you know? How are you? We notice that you posted on something about a, uh, you know, your car broke down. Well, you know, we’re not in the car business, but you know, you’re you’re two blocks from our our closest, ah, outlet or whatever. And, you know, once, if you need to come in, have a cup of coffee, will you use the phone? Whatever. You know, those little things that you could do that, that that really focus on the customers you haven’t made the customers you have the ones where the zombies who tell other customers have great your And this all applies to non-profits. Certainly as well. The question, But even more so. Yeah. I mean, if you know non-profits constant worry about howto make the most value out of their dollar on how to keep a dollar stretching further and further. And, you know, you have this massive audience who has come to you. Who’s a non-profit who said to you, You know, we want to help here we are volunteering our help and just simply treating them with the thanks that they deserve. Not just a simple Hey, thanks for doing her, but actually reaching out asking what? Theywant asking how they like to get their information. Things like that will greatly increase your donations as well as making them go out and tell everyone how awesome you are letting them to your p R for you. And that’s what a zombie loyalist does. And this is for this. Could be donors. Could be volunteers in the organization who aren’t able to give a lot. But giving time is enormous. And if you know if they have such a great time doing it, they’ll bring friends as as zombies. Do you know zombies have one purpose in life? A. Real zombies have one purpose in life. That’s the feed. It doesn’t matter how the Mets are doing it doesn’t matter, you know, because chance that they lost anyway. But it doesn’t matter how, how anyone’s doing. You know what’s going on in the world economy. It doesn’t matter. What matters was zombie is where they get their next meal. Because they feed and they have to infect more people. Otherwise, they will die zombie loyalist to the same thing. All they have to do is make sure that their custom, they tell the world we all have that friend who does it. You know that one friend who eats eat nothing but the olive garden because, oh, my gods, greatest breadsticks everywhere, you know. And they will drag your ass the olive garden every single time they get that chance. That’s a zombie loyalist. And you want them to do that for your non-profit. And there’s a big advantage to being a smaller, smaller organization. You could be so much more high touch and we’re gonna talk about all that. We got the full hour with Peter Shankman. Gotta go away for a couple minutes. Stay with us. It’s time for a break. Pursuant, they have two. New resource is on the listener landing page, the field guide to data driven Fund-raising. That is practical steps to achieve your fund-raising goals, using data and case studies and demystifying the donor experience which guides you through creating the donor journey map and also includes stewardship strategies on landing page Tony dahna slash pursuant Capital P for please. Now, back to zombie loyalists. Peter, It doesn’t take much. Teo, stand out in the customer service world doesn’t really doesn’t you know? And the reason for that is because we expect to be treated like crap. You know, if you think about that book? I love this example. Whenever I give speeches, I ask, I ask everyone the audience like, who here has had a great flight recently, like at least one personal raise, their hands like, OK, what made it great and without fail there. And well, we took off on time, and I had The CD was a sign, and we landed on time and like So you paid for a service, They delivered that service and you are over the freaking moon about it, like, that’s the state that we’ve become. You know, that’s how bad customer service has been, that you are just beyond thrilled that they did exactly what they said they were going to win. Nothing more less than twenty minutes in the post office line exam. And I’m ecstatic, exactly. You know, it’s it’s so we really are at a point where we only have to be one level above crap. I’m not even asking my client to be good, just one level of crap. You know, if everyone else is crapping your one level above that, you’re going to win my favorite. My favorite jokes. Thie two guys air out in the woods hunting in the woods in the just jog. It was the first one sees a bear and they see this barren, barren, raised upleaf about to strike and the first one reaches down and tightens up his laces on his running shoes. And it was the studio. Don’t be community. You can’t outrun a bear. And I don’t need to understand how wrong You know, I love that joke because it’s it’s so true. That’s the concept. You know, all you have to do is be just a little bit better than everyone else, and you’ll win the whole ball game. Now we have to set some things up internally in orderto have the structure in place, No question about it to create the zombie loyalists. Yeah. I mean, you have a You have a AA company where the majority of people in your company are afraid to do anything outside the norm, You know? I mean, lookit, lookit a cellphone companies, you know, they call them cause you have a problem, right? T or T Mobile. You call them your problem. They’re actually the customer service. We’ll handle Your caller actually judged and rewarded based on how quickly, they could get you off the phone, you know, not on whether or not they fix your problem fat, but how fast they could get you off the phone. Which means how many more causing everybody worked. When I worked in America Online, we all had to do a day of customer service every month just to see what it was like. That was a brilliant idea. But, you know, again, it’s just it was a system called Vantage for you to sign on and assumes you signed on. If you want to call, you know that was tacked against you if you were in a call and and it went over a certain amount of time that was tacked against you. So the decks were stacked not in the favor. The customer. There are some companies out there who allowed there customer service employees to simply be smarter about what they dio and do whatever it is they need to do to fix the problem. You know, my favorite story about this Verizon Wireless. I went overseas, as in Dubai, and I landed two buy-in. I’m turning My phone had gotten global roaming on my phone, which you know, twenty bucks for every hundred megawatts. Okay, so I land and I turn on my phone and it says, like, before I’m even off the plane. I get a text that you’ve used two hundred dollars in roaming charges. What? How? You know, three hundred dollars by turning it off the planet. We’re something’s up here. So I called Horizon on a nice guy. Answer the phone and Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, the first thing that was Yes, sir. You do have global roaming, but it doesn’t work in Dubai. Okay, well, that’s not really global. That’s more hemispherical. Roaming, I think, is the issue. And so I said, Well, look, I’m gonna be here for a week. I said, You know what? You have my credit card bill. Me like cubine bilich a thousand bucks. And you let me have the phone for, like, a week, and you know that, You know, five hundred hours I won’t go over to gigs. Would just do something for me. Sorry, sir. I’m not authorized to do that. You can look so what I have is well, you can pay twenty dollars and forty eight cents a megabyte. I’m like I’m sorry, Seriously, which equates essentially, too. I will be charged twenty thousand forty eight seconds, three thousand forty eight cents for every I think the times for every four seconds of the video Gangnam style, if I decide to watch my phone like this is pretty ridiculous. So I simply hung up. I’m hung up on your eyes and I went down the street to the Dubai. The Mall of the Emirates, which is the largest mall in the world, is a freaking ski slope in that, and I’m not joking. And as a ski slope in this mall and went to one of like the eighty six different electronic stores in this mall, bought an international unlocked version of the same exact cell phone. I have went next door to the local SIM card store, bought a SIM card that gave me twenty gigabytes of data and a thousand minutes of talk for forty dollars. I then put that in my phone because I it’s an android phone. I simply typed in my user name and password for Google and everything imported. And Verizon did not get a penny on that trip. How easy would have been from Horizon to say, Okay, you know what? We’ll cut your brake. They still make a lot of money off me. And I would tell the world how great Verizon wants to work with and how wonderfully, how helpful they were. Instead, they guaranteed that I will never They will never make a penny from any international trip. And I take what, fifteen of them? A year? Because now my cell phone, um, my international cell phone that I bought all I do is pop out the SIM card on my land wherever I am putting a new SIM card. So and you’re speaking and writing and telling that story ports and rittereiser. And every time I tell the story about variety that make it a little worse. Apparently Verizon tests out the durability of their phone by throwing them kittens. I read this in Internet must, you know? So? Not necessarily. But you know, the concept that all they had to do, all the energy was in power, Mark, and it wasn’t Mark’s fault. Mark was a really nice guy, but he was not allowed to do that. He would get fired if you try to do a deal like that for me. And so it’s this concept, you know, And the funny thing is, it comes down. If you really want to go go down the road in terms of a public company like Verizon of where the issue is, you could even trace it to fiduciary responsibility. Because the fiduciary responsibility of any company CEO all the way down the employees to make money for the shareholders future responsibly means by not allowing me. And they don’t allow a mark the customer service agent, to to help me on DH take a different tack. He’s actually losing money. Too many CEOs think about the next quarter. Oh, we have to make our numbers next quarter. I’m fired companies and other countries to anything with next quarter century, and they make a much bigger difference because he okay, what can we do now that will have impact the next five, ten, fifteen years, you know, and really implement the revenue that we have and and augment and Cos America. Don’t don’t think about that. That’s a big problem. I’d buy a product line, has a lot of natural and recycled materials. Seventh generation, and they’re they’re tagline is that in in our every decision, we must consider the impact on the next seven generations. It comes from an American Indian. It’s great. It’s a great line. I mean, just thinking about how much money Horizon would have made for me in the past three years over, just just my overseas, you’d be telling a story about like them about Morten like the one about things. Look, a lot of people listen to me and they went for a time when you Googled roaming charges variety when you Google Verizon roaming charges my story about, however, how I saved all this money really big came up first because I did the math. And if I had not called Mark and bought my own cell phone and done this, I would have come home with thirty one thousand dollars self-funding and you damn over rising wouldn’t know nothing about that bilich up. Too bad. Sorry about the fine print and plus the employee who sold you the quote international plan, right? I’m sure you told her, didn’t she said, Where you going? I’m going to Canada and I’m going to Dubai. I’m assuming she didn’t know where to buy Wass shevawn. We thought it was near Canada, but yeah, long story short. Couldn’t use it. All right, so employees have to be empowered. There’s to be. We have to be but changing a thinking, too. I mean, the customer has to come first. The donor of the volunteers don’t volunteer. You get At the end of the day, where’s your money coming from? Looking for Non-profit or Fortune one hundred? Where’s the money coming from? You know, And if you no, we see it happening over and over again. We’ve seen what you’re seeing right now. Play out every single day with company uber on uber. It’s so funny because uber makes you know the value of forty million dollars right now. But that doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t mean anything If people are running away in droves, which people are, there’s a whole delete your uber app movement that Lard mo God you people are doing. What’s the problem? Well, it’s several number one that uber is run by a bunch of guys who honor the bro code. The company was actually started by a guy who, in on business in business, Insider, said he started the company, get laid. His goal was to always of a black car when he was leaving a restaurant to impress the girl he was with that’s. He came out and said that and you see that culture run rampant throughout uber from their God mode, where they can see they actually create. There was, Ah, don’t read this, my business insider, as well it was. They created a hookup page that showed, or, ah, Walk of Shame page that showed where good women were leaving certain apartments like on weekends, oneaccord believing certain place on weekends, going back to their home. It was obvious that they, you know, some guy, and I think they did that. And, of course, just there, their whole surge pricing mentality. Which is, you know, two days ago, there was a couple of symbolism the terrorists thinkers, Harris attacking in Sydney at that at that bakery, and Sidney, Uber and Sydney instituted surge pricing for people trying to get out of harm’s way, you know, and and they later refund it all was a computer glitch. I’m you know, I’m sorry. You have a stop button and you can when you see something happening like that there has to be someone in the office because you know what, Not cool. We’re going to take care of that and hit the stop button. And it was, Yeah, that tons and tons and tons of bad publicity. You know, I was having an argument with one of my Facebook page, facebook dot com slash Peter Shankman because they said, Oh, you know, So what? They don’t they don’t turn surprising. I have enough cabs there and, you know, people can’t get home. I said, I’m pretty sure that the on ly come, but I’m sure that no one had cab companies that I’m sure that there wasn’t anyone who had enough cars. They’re private cabs. Uber’s, whatever. Yet the on ly stories I read about companies screwing up during the event where uber, not Joe’s Sydney cab company. You know, I didn’t see him staring up because he didn’t turn on surge pricing. You got it. You got to respect your customer after, as we’re ah training for that, then not only trying to change that mine ships well in in trying to change that mindset. Rewards for custom for employees that do take go to go the extra mile. Well, first of all, if you give the employees the ability to do it to go the extra mile and understand they won’t get fired, you’re not going to get in. Try always to tell every one of my employees you’re never getting in trouble for spending a little extra money to try and keep a customer happy. You’ll get fired for not doing it. You know you’re fired for not for seeing an opportunity to fix someone and not taking not doing everything that you could know. Ritz Carlton is famous for its calling the hires people not because whether they could fool the bedsheet, but for how well they understand people. Because in Wisconsin’s mind, it’s much more important to be a people person and be able to be empathetic. And that it’s such a key word. Empathy is just so so sorely lacking. You know how much you’ve called customer service? Yeah. You know, I have to have to change my flight. Might my my aunt just died. I really Tio. Okay, great. That’s three dollars. I just wanted one hour earlier. You know, you show up at the airport, your bag is overweight by half. A pound. That’s twenty five dollars. I just can you can you just cut me some slack. You know, So empathy and giving the custom, giving the employees the ability to understand that the customer that sometimes you can make exceptions, and it is okay to make changes. And this is where a smaller organization has huge advantage. It’s easier to change that’s what kills me. You know, I go to these try to frequent small businesses. When can I go something Small businesses and they won’t. They act like large businesses, you know, in the respect that they don’t have. Ah, like they want to be respected. Almost. They don’t have like, a sixty six thousand page code that they have to adhere to. They can simply, ah, do something on the fly. And yet for whatever reason, they won’t do it. And it’s the most frustrating famous And what guys? You’re acting like a big You act like mega lo mart here, you know, And you’re not Mega lo mart and you’re just Joe’s house of stationary. Whatever it is and, you know, not be able to help me. You’re pretty much killing yourself because you don’t have eighty five billion customers would come to the door after me, you know, But I have a pretty big network. And for a small business, two get killed socially as social becomes more and more What? How we communicate, you know, it’s just craziness. It’s, you know, we’re pretty much in a world, I think, where something almost hasn’t happened to you unless unless you share it. A joke that, you know, if I can take a selfie, was I really their? But it’s true, you know, we do live in a world where, you know, I remember God ten years ago, maybe not even not even ten years ago, I was one of the first people have a phone in my camera, you know, And it was like, running from that’s what I said, Yeah, carry my phone, right. And it was like a I think, a point eight megapixels. You know, it looked like I was taking a picture with a potato, but it was It was Thiss. I remember It was two thousand two and I was in Chase Bank and there was a woman arguing with the teller and I pulled out my video, you know? It was there The crappiest video you’ve received. I pulled out and I said, you know, I started recording and the one being the Catwoman In-kind wasn’t the woman behind the counter was talking to the customs saying, you do not speak to me that way. You get out of this bank right now And the customers saying, I just wanted my balance. And Yuen, you manager comes over, I get this whole thing on my little crappy three g Motorola folk phone. And I remember I posted online and Gawker picks it up. I gave him my e mail. You know, my headline I put my blood was, you know, chase where the regulation ship is that Go out yourself, you know, And it was It just got tons of play on Gawker. Picked it up. It went everywhere. Totally viral. So it’s one of those things. He was just like, you know, this is in two thousand two. It’s twelve years later. How the hell can you assume that nothing is being with that. You’re not being recorded. You know, I I they were blowing. I sneezed a couple weeks ago, and, ah, not to get too graphic here, but I needed a tissue big time after I was done sneezing, never going through my pockets looking for desperate looking for tissue, like looking around, making sure it wasn’t on camera somewhere that someone didn’t grab that with hoexter viral sensation, You know, I mean, I went God, I went to high school with eight blocks from here, right? If the amount of cameras that Aaron Lincoln Center today were there in nineteen, eighty nine, nineteen ninety, I’d be having this conversation entirely. I’d be having this conversation behind bulletproof myself. Yeah, so, you know, you’d be you’d be talking to you have to get special clearance to visit me. Pray, be it the super Max in Colorado. You know, it’s one of those things that you just like my kid who’s who’s almost two years old. Now, he’s gonna grow up with absolutely no expectation of privacy the same way that we grew up with an expectation of privacy. And I’m thankful for that because she will make a lot less stupid moves. You know, I mean, God, the things that I thought, you know in in high school, I thought the stupid is in the world Thank God there wasn’t a way for me to broadcast that to the world in real time. Thank God creating these zombie loyalists. And we’ve got to change some. We’ve got changed culture and thinking and reward zsystems. Let’s go back to the the cost of all this. Why is this a better investment than trying to just focus on new donors? I love I love this analogy. And look, accufund analogy lets him in a bar and there’s a very cute girl across the across the park and catch my eye catcher. I got to go. You know, you don’t know me. I’m amazing in bed. You should finish your drink right now. Come home. Let’s get it on. I’m impressed. I am that good Chancellor should get throw a drink in my face. Go back talking to her friends. I’ve done a lot of research on this. That’s probably now lets us sue. Let’s assume an alternate world. I’m sitting there on my phone. I’m just playing like, you know, no. Bored with Friendraising. And she’s over there talking to friends. One of her friends. Holy crap. That’s Peter Peter Shankman. I’ve heard him speak. He’s in this fantasy world. I’m single, too. He I think he’s single and he’s having this amazing guy. I know he has a cat. You haven’t. You should totally go talk to him. The very least I’m getting this girl’s number. That’s PR. Okay. And what are we trust more me with my, you know, fancy suit collar going over the seventies. Leaders in Hi, I’m amazing. Or the girl saying, Hey, we’ve been friends since their great I’m recommending that guy. You should trust me on this. You know, obviously, that that’s where good customer service comes into play. And that’s where corporate culture comes into play. Because if I have a great experience with you and at your company, I’m going to tell my friend when they’re looking, and I will stake my personal reputation. There’s nothing stronger, and these are the people who want to breed at Zoho. Willis. That’s stronger than advertising, strong of the marketing, and they’re going to share. People want to share that. Think about the Internet, runs on two things. It runs on drama, drama and bragging, hyre bragging and drama. And if you if you need any proof of that, you know go and look at all the hashtags with crap that’s happened. You know, bad customer service, bad, whatever. But then look at all the good Hashtags. You know, when our flight’s delayed for three hours and we lose our seat. Oh, my God, I hate this air land on the worst airline ever, But when we get upgraded, right, hashtag first class bitches or whatever it is, you know it looks to me like that on the because we love to share. It’s on ly a great experience if we could tell the world. And it’s only a bad experience if we could make everyone else miserable about it as well. We need to take a break. Wagner CPAs nufer The New Year. They’re kicking off a remote non-profit roundtable. Siri’s no longer got to be in person each quarter a witness CPAs, C. P A. We’ll cover topic that they are expert in. They know it top to bottom and you need a basic understanding of it. On January fifteenth, its revenue recognition for your grants and contracts. Regular cps dot com. Click Resource is then seminars. Now time for Tony’s. Take two. Yes, it’s time to be an insider for the New Year. I am kicking off this expanded guest interview. Siri’s these air going to be exclusively for non-profit radio insiders each week. Ah, go deeper into a topic with with a guest or will talk about a topic that we didn’t cover in the show. Interview videos are going to be on a private playlist and YouTube entirely for insiders to become an insider. Uh, like I said last week, sounds like something other people would make you pay for. I do not just go to tony martignetti dot com and click the Insider Alert button name and email. It’s all we need and you become a non-profit radio insider. Start at twenty martignetti dot com. And there that’s the center of the universe started. Start, and there and then that’s you never need anything else. Now let’s go back to Peter Shankman and zombie loyalists. Peter, you have a golden rule of social media that that a good number of customers like to share and people are going to keep doing it. People will always share again. It goes back to the concept that if you create great stuff, people want to share it because people like to be associated with good things. If you create bad stuff and buy stuff, I can Me, I mean anything from, like, a bad experience, too. That content people not only won’t share that, but we go out of their way to tell people how terrible you are. Yeah. You know, how many times have you seen companies fail? Horribly? You know, after major disasters, when companies or tweeting, you know, completely unrelated things after after random school shooting? No, it was after the shooting at the theatre in Aurora, Colorado. The Dark knight, The tweets. Hey, shooter’s. What’s your plans for this weekend? You know, and I’m just going, Really, You know, But of course, the thing was, the thing was retweeted millions of times, you know, with a sort of shame on the so wait, we’re society. Like I said earlier, that loves to share when when great things happen once but love to tell the world when we’re miserable because we’re only truly miserable when you make everyone else miserable. Arika It’s funny you mentioned generosity. Siri’s the one of my favorite stories, which goes to sort of a bigger picture of culture. And somehow, when you’re just doing your job because that’s what you’re supposed to do your job. But you don’t realize there are ways to get around that. I listened to your podcast, among others, when I’m running through Central Park and more like if you know my body type more like lumbering through Central Park. But I get there. I’m in Iron Man have it And so I go to Central Park and it’s super early in the morning cause I usually have meetings and I dont run fast. I run like I really dont run fast, but but as I’m running. But let’s give you the credit that you have done a bunch of Iron Man. I have try that. The thing I do, I do it. You know, my mother tells me that I just have very poor judgment in terms of what sports I should do. But on the flip side, I’m also a skydiver, which is with my weight is awesome. I fall better than anyone, you know. But so I’m running through Central Park. Last year it was February February of thirteen and fourteen of this year, and it was around four forty five in the morning. Because I had a an idiom, meaning and had to ten miles. So four foot every morning running about but labbate around nineteen. Seventy ninth eightieth Street on the east side in the park and a cop pulls me over. Andi says, What you doing? Look at him. You know, I’m wearing black spandex. I have a hat. It’s five degrees. I don’t wantto playing checkers, you know? Well, you know, I’m like, I’m running it. He’s like, Okay, can you stop running? I’m like, okay, seeking the park’s closed like no time. Look, I’m in it. Look around. There are other people who know part doesn’t open this exam like he’s ago. Would you have any idea? And you’re like, No, I’m running. He does what you name I’m like, Seriously, look, I’m writing you a summons. I’m like you ready? Metoo sametz for exercising. I just want to clarify that you’re writing metoo. And sure enough, the guy wrote me a summons for exercising in Central Park before it opened. The charge was breaking the violating curfew. You know, I’m like I get the concept. The curfew is to keep people out after two. A. M. It’s not to prevent them going in early to exercise, to be healthy. I’m like, I’m not carrying, you know, a six pack. I’m not drinking a big gulp. I’m not smoking. I mean, I’m doing something healthy, and you’re writing me a summons for it. Um and I said, you know, I’m gonna have a field day with this. I said, I kind of have some fathers. There will be a lot of fun. I’m not. You know, You’re just doing your job, sir, even though you have the discretion not to, but Okay, So I go back home, take a picture, might take it, email it to a friend of mine in New York Post, You know, front page New York Post next day. No running from this ticket, you know, in your times covered it. Runner’s world covered. I mean, I went everywhere, gawk uncovered it, you know, And my whole thing was just like, Dude, you have discretion. Look at me. You know I’m not I’m not even going super fast, For God’s sake, I’m just just trying to actual size here, you know? And of course, I went to court and I beat it. But how much money that cost the city for me to go to court, fight this thing, you know, every employee you have to give your employees the power of discretion, of power, of empathy, to make their own decisions. If you go by the book, bad things will happen. And again, small shops So much easier to do. Yeah, flatline flat organizations. I work with a non-profit animal rescue Non-profit. A friend of mine was a skydiver and shut him out. No, I can’t. But there’s a friend of mine, Scott, ever. And she was killed in a base jump several years ago, and her husband asked to donate in her memory to this non-profit. So I sent him a check. And about three months later, I get a coffee table book of mail. And I was living by myself the time I didn’t own a coffee table of you. No more money to spend on my flatscreen and I Ah, remember I call I look at this coffee table guy throw, I throw in the corner. I look at it over next couple days. It pisses me off. And how much? How much of my donation did it cost to print? Man produced this book to me, and so I called them up. Well, sure, we believe most of our donors are older and pry prefer to get a print version, as opposed to, like, digital. You know where they throw it away like you don’t traditionally, but okay, I’m like so So you’ve asked your you’ve done surveys in you’ve asked all. You know, we just assume the most dumber older. I’m like I open my mouth on of joining your board and spent the next year interviewing customers, interviewing every current and past donor-centric get their information and shock of shocks. Ninety four percent said online. And so over the following year, we launched Facebook page, Twitter page zoho flicker account YouTube. Everything. P s the following year for that donations went up thirty seven percent in one year in that economies right ran away. Tonight, donations went up thirty seven percent in one year, and they saved over five hundred thousand dollars in printing Malian reproduction. Imagine going your boss, boss revenues up thirty seven percent and we save the half million dollars in Boston about you’re really good. Yah! You know, all they had to do was listen to their audience, be relevant to the audience you have, and they will tell you what they want. We have tons of tools for segmentation. My God, you’ve gotta listen to what segment you want people want to be. You know, someone someone asked me that. A show? What? What’s the best way I knew nothing about their company? What’s the best social media left me to be on? Should be on Twitter shevawn Facebook, I said. I’ll answer that question If you can answer this. This this question to ask you is my favorite type of cheese Gouda or the number six they don’t understand. That’s not a real question like neither is yours. Like I can’t tell you where the best place to be your audience, can I said, Go ask your audience. Believe me, they will tell you there’s a gas station. The Midwest come and go. I just love the name Kumo Angio and their tag around But you can read more about the tagline is always something extra I think Come on the jokes just write themselves for God’s sake But they don’t take themselves to see really love that come a ghost knowing the name of the company gas station. And you know I remember there in Iowa and I went to visit a friend and I and I was like, You’ve got to get a photo of you in front of Coming goes on. And the beauty of this is that, and some of their employees actually look at their customers when they’re on their phones. We start to go. You know what? You use Twitter or Facebook and they say, Oh, you know, and they record the information and they know it. Customers will give you so much info if you just ask them, because then they feel invested. They feel invest in your company. They feel like they that you took the time to listen to their non-profit, requested their their their questions and they feel like they’re nufer Harrow. Every month we have a one question Harrow survey, you know, heroin question survey. And it was we’d get, like, a thousand people respond. I’d spend the entire weekend emailing. Everyone responded, thanking them personally. In-kind hyre weekend. But it was great, because we’ll wind up happening. Is that, you know, if we took their advice and launch it on Monday with the new thing, they Oh, my God. How did this? They took my advice. Yeah, was your advice to a hundred other people advice. But we took it and they don’t like it. And it just It just made them so much more loyal. And they tell hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people we get in. There were days I got there days where I was in temple. One morning, the garment center synagogue and my phone. I feel like phone getting really hot in my pocket, which is not normal. And I’m starting her on. I look at it, it’s almost on fire. It had frozen because we were mentioned in Seth Gordon’s morning blogged on. And at that time I was getting emails. Every time we get a new subscriber and the phone actually frozen and was locked and and was like overheating. I t at the battery and like reset the entire phone because we’ve got so many new fourteen thousand subscribers in like three hours have seen some scene. We got to take a break. Tell us, can you use more money? You need a new revenue source. You get a long stream of passive revenue when cos you refer, process their credit card transactions through Tello’s go to landing page, watched the video, then send potential companies to watch the video. If they use, tell us you get fifty percent of the fee for each card transaction. It adds up the video. Is that tony dot M a slash Tony Tello’s I can’t do the Live Listen Love live, but the love goes out were pre recorded this week. But the love is going out. I mean, for God’s sake, you know, it’s going out. If you’re listening, live, that’s you. Thank you, Love goes to you whether you’re from Northvale, New Jersey, New Bern, North Carolina or Sacramento, California or abroad. Of course, if you’re in Mexico City, if you’re in Iran, ifyou’re in Egypt If you’re in Germany, China, Japan, Brazil, live, love goes to you Doesn’t matter where you are It goes on the podcast pleasantries. They’ve got to go to our over thirteen thousand podcast listeners each and every week. It’s amazing pleasantries to you the podcast listeners. Now back to Peter Shankman. You say? Excuse me? You say that customer service is the new advertising. Marketing NPR. Yeah, it really is. Well, again, you know, if we’re moving to that world where so imagine a lot of limp and I love that. I can use this. Now imagine a lot of lamp latto. Lamb has water, oil and a heat source. Right. Heat source heats the oil, The oil flows with water. It makes pretty colors. I’ve heard it looks really good when you’re high. Now I’ve heard. Now imagine if Crystal’s Imagine if you’re ah, everyone you meet in your network. Okay? He’s a drop of oil. The water is your network. And what is your world? Everyone you meet in your network from from the guy you’re sitting doing the radio interview with to the guy who serves you ice cream with local deli to the guy who does your dry cleaning to your girlfriend to your wife to not same time to your kids, second grade teacher to your second grade teacher years ago. Everyone you meet is in your network. You know, right now, when Facebook for started, I would see the same weight from a kid. I was junior high school, his posted at the same weight as, like my current girlfriend, which is ridiculous. I don’t need to know about everything my friend from junior high school’s doing having talked to in fifteen years, Facebook setting a lot smarter as Google. Now I see the people I communicate with the most okay, And if I if I reach out to communicate with new people, they start rising and my feet in my stream. If I don’t, they fall. It’s just like a lot of laughs. Every person you connect with is a drop of oil. That heat source at the bottom that’s rising. Raising or lowering those drops of oil is relevance, so imagine the heat sources relevance. And the more I interact with someone, the more the higher they go in my network in, the more I see of them, the more trust level. There is when I’m at a bar and I meet someone at a restaurant. Unconference I meet someone I don’t need to connect them. I don’t need to go on Facebook, friend request, you know, awkward friend requesting is when you stop and think that lesson. My friend requested some of the real world with second grade. Will you be my friend? My daughter is doing that because, you know, it’s like cat, Will you be my friend? Kind of the captain will be here. But you know, it’s this awkward thing. Who the hell friendly west someone? If I find hang out with you the bar and we connect again and we talk and we go out to dinner and we’re having a good time for friends. I don’t need to first request that you, you know, that’s going away. Friending Following liking and fanning is all going away. What will interact is the actual connection. So if I meet with you and I have a good time with you and we talk again if I use your business. If I go to your non-profit, If I donate, if I volunteer, whatever the network knows that the more I do that the more interact with you, the more you have the right to market to me. And the more you will be at the top of my stream in the more I will see information about you, the less I will have tio search for you. But if you do something stupid or we’re no longer friends, Zia, you’re going to fade. I don’t Unfriend, you just disappear. Unfriending is also dated a woman We broke up. It was nine months after we broke up. There was one from the other one because it’s just awkward. So the whole kapin friend of me. But you know, the causes of not having to do that of just you know, okay. I haven’t talked in a while. I don’t see your post anymore. The real world, that’s how it should be. And if you’re not feeding zombie loyalists, Yeah, they can start to defect. No question about our wonderful gonna spend a little time on If you’re not reading now, you’re talking to them, giving them what they want, talking about their information, helping them out. They will gladly go somewhere else to someone who is, you know, if I have a great experience of the restaurant every week for three years, and then all of a sudden over time, I’m noticing less and less that restaurant’s doing less and less tio, take care of me, you know, and maybe management’s change. And I don’t feel that, you know, I’m ripe for being infected by another company. I’m right for someone else to come. So you know, Peter, because if I tweet some, like, Wow. Can’t believe I have to wait forty minutes for a table that didn’t used to be like that. If if someone else a smart restaurant, they’re following me and they’re going great, you know? Appears No, wait. No way over here. Why don’t you come to blacks? Lorts we’ll give you a free drink, you know, you know, and that right there that’s first sign of infection and I might become infected by another pan of the company becomes a little less for them. And so let’s take you have a lot of good examples. Let’s take a one on one situation. How can we start to cure that? The simple act of realizing following your customers understanding when they’re not happy and fixing the situation before it escalates. You can contain a small outbreak, a small outbreaks. Well, viral outbreak. You can contain that by getting the right people, finding out what the problem is. Getting him to one room, fixing their problem. Healing them. You have a good, uh, united story right back. When was Continental? I was a frequent flyer and booked a trip to Paris. Andi, I was very angry because they charged me four hundred dollars looking for you. I remember what it was. And then I called the CEO. I just just for the hell of it. I’m like I’m going. I wrote a letter. An email before social. Right friend wrote an email. The CEO, like this? Ridiculous. I’m freaking fired-up like three months later, my phone rings. Hello, Peter. Please hold for Larry Kellman, CEO of Coming Little. And I’m like, Oh, crap. You know, And I got your telephone. He’s like Peter hated misjudgment. Doing started letting these freezes their new way. We sent that note. I’m getting it and see it. We’re gonna weigh them for you. But if you have any more problems, you know, feel free to call me and end of the phone the next forty minutes. What is staring at it like holy crap? Larry killed on the CEO of United Airlines just called me and talk to me, and it was like it was like God coming down and say you now have the power to levitate your cat. It was just ridiculous. And so, you know, I have been faithful to Continental and now United ever since on DH. They continue to treat me with respect and do great things, and they’re they’re improving. They were getting a lot of crap over the past several years and that there really are starting to improve its nice to say and not only of course, your own loyalty. But you’re Oh, my God, How zombie loyalist for them and how many times how much it’s unquote fired-up latto bradrick attract so many friends to united. I’ve made so many friends. I mean, my father, you know, he only fleshing out it now, which means he only drag. He dragged my mom on the Internet, and I only drink my wife. You know, there’s a lot of lot of work that way. We gotta go away for a couple of minutes When we come back. Of course, Peter and I’m going to keep talking about his book comes out in January. Zombie Loyalists. Time for our last break. Text to give. Can you use more money? Do you need a new revenue source? Here’s a second way mobile E-giving You can learn about it with texted. Gives five part email. Many course. Get them over five successive days. You’re only five emails away from raising money through mobile giving. This will dispel a lot of myths for you around Mobile giving. It’s cheap to get started. Its easy for your donors. Text NPR to four four four nine nine nine To get that many course, we’ve got several more minutes for zombie loyalists. Here they are. You have some examples of zombie loyalist leaving and mass like dominoes. Netflix. They’re both. They’re both in the book. So it’s so one leaving. If you know if, you know, start the cure. One leaving. Yeah. And then that’s the thing. You know, the little experience. Maybe the Internet with the hashtag, everything like that. You know, it doesn’t take a long time for those things to sort of blow up in your face. And, you know, the other day everyone say, Oh, you know, Twitter’s responsible for for us losing another not you’re responsible for you losing. Yeah, yeah. And if your product isn’t great and you’re your actions don’t speak well of who you are, then there’s no reason your customers should stay with you, you know, And it was all social media is really hurting. I know you’re hurting yourself. The only difference is that social media makes it easier for the world to know. Yeah, they’re just telling the story. Dominoes and Netflix are good example because they they bounce back. They took responsibility, and yeah, they both owned dominoes, came out and said, You know what? You’re right. Our pizza. And we do have a problem. We’re going to fix this. And they spent millions fixing it. And sure enough, they’re back with a vengeance. Now, I may or may not even ordered the Maroons in awhile. And I live in New York City. That’s that’s a that’s a sacrilege. But, you know, I have the app on my phone from oversea. No traveling somewhere being should bring or whatever. And you know what? Do you get it eleven thirty at night when your flight’s delayed me landed dahna. Which reminds me, I should go exercise on the flip side. Looked so much like Netflix. They they also were screwed up. You know, they were losing that trial switch between the two. They came up with a new name, and it was so gross and public. Oh, man. And so and again, you’re watching the same thing happen with uber right now, so we really need to see if they’re able to repair themselves. Listening is important, but both those both those two examples they’d listen to their customers. Think there’s a problem with listening? Because everyone’s been saying, Listen, listen, listen, for months and years and years and years now. But you know, no one ever says that you have to do more than just listen, just listen. Actually, follow-up, you know, it’s one thing to listen, You know, I used to love my wife. I could sit there and listen to her for hours, you know? But I don’t actually say anything back. She’s a smack right, you know, and go to the other room. And so you really have to. It’s a two way street, you know, listening is great, but can’t respond. And look, I think further. And I was like, Oh, Twitter, so great because someone was complaining on Twitter and we went online. We we’ve saw the complaint that we fixed their problem in. Yes. How about if the problems exist in the first place? You know, because the great thing about Twitter is that, Yeah, people complain on Twitter. The bad thing about it is there complaining about you on Twitter. So it’s like, what if the problem didn’t exist in the first place? What if what if you empowered your front desk clerk to fix the problem so that I didn’t have to tweet? Hurts is my favorite story of all this for I used to rent from her. It’s religiously and then I went to AA Phoenix. Sky Harbor Airport has past April and I gave it. I was giving a speech and go on. My name’s supposed be on the board. You know, second grade, that car, and it wasn’t okay. What happened? I’m going upstairs. I weighed forty minutes on the VP line. After forty minutes, they finally say, You know, there’s a on ly one guy here. A lot of people might have better chance we go to the regular line. Okay. Probably told us that a little earlier in the regular spent forty five minutes waiting the regular line. It’s now been. Are you tweeting while this is happening? Well, I had to know, I was actually not only tweeting, I don’t have time to create a MIM. That should give you some idea of how long I was online with myself on those offgrid enough. That means I get to the counter. I can help you. Yeah, I was downstairs. The VP doesn’t tell me. Oh, you via preservation in upstairs. Like Yeah, OK, let’s let’s put a pin in that. They just sent me up here, like, right? They have to help you. Well, it’s not, Really they You guys for the same company? I mean, I could see the reservation on the screen. You you can help me. Sorry, sir. I can’t help. You have to go to the next, like you just next to me. Okay. So if you know anything about Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix, all of the rental car coming through on the same place Yeah, so I walked fifty feet. It’s a bus, Takes you to the big bang a civilian where they’re all next week. I walked fifty feet from the cess pool of filth in depravity that was hurts to the wonderful Zen garden of tranquility that was Avis. And in four minutes I had a nicer, cheaper, more nicer, less expensive car given to a woman named Phyllis, who was sixty six and moved to Phoenix from Detroit with her husband for his asthma. I knew this because she told me. She smiled at me. She brought her manager out and said, That’s another refugee from Hertz and I said, This happens a lot. They’re like, Yeah, I’m like, You think they have done something about that. And so on the way out in Avis, I thank them. I walk past her. So I shoot on this, you know, sort of look at the look of the beast. I get my Avis carnage at my hotel. Wanted to Tel. I write a wonderful block post about my experience called Peter and hurts in the terrible, horrible. Nobody could really bad customer experience. What, you have a kid. You find out we’re writing titles about your blood post that I have to do with kids books I do not like hurts, Sam. I am. And and I included in this block post The five things I’d rather do than ever rent from hurts again. I think number three was was ah, ride a razor blade bust through a lemon juice waterfall. With, just, you know, and it’s a bit. But of course, the next day hurts reaches out to me. Oh, Miss Jay Manuel, This is ahead of North American customer service. I saw your butt. I’m like they’re like, you know, we’d love to have it make no like you’re not going to fix the problem. Number one sametz Davis car. I’m never going back to her. Number two through a five people yesterday, five people interacted with all of whom had the chance to save me and keep me is a customer for life. A customer who have been so happy and I would have loved you. Five people blew it. So don’t waste your time trying to convert me back. You’re not going to know. What you want to do is spend some of that energy retraining your staff to have empathy and to give them the ability and the empowerment to fix my problem when it happens. Because five people, it takes every single employee to keep your company running. It takes one to kill it. Yeah, P s Avis reached out to thank me personally, and I am now just this ridiculously huge, loyal fan of Avis and always will be. You have a pretty touching story, but when you worked in a yogurt shop, you’re really Yung wei. Have a couple of minutes Tell that tell. That could stay. That was in the East side, which again is yet another reason why I live in the West, that nothing good ever happens in Manhattan’s east side. So I was I was working and I can’t believe it’s yogurt, which was a store that I think back in the I C B Y. No, no tcb. Why was the country’s best yogurt? The countries I C. B. I. Why was a poor I can’t believe that you can’t believe is that your family was yogurt was a poor attempt to capitalize on his teamviewer working in this store and I go in every day and make the OK to clean the floors. I do, you know, a typical high school job, and it was during the summer and houses people walking by things like Second Avenue or something. And there were these brass poles that hyung from, you know, there was awning, right? It’s only that there, and they’re the brass poles that held the awning up and they were dirty as hell, right? I’m sure they’ve never been polished, ever. And I found I found some brass polish in the back with all the beer in the back and went after anyone outside. And I’m positive polishing the polls. My logic was if the Poles were shiny, people saw them. Maybe they come in the store. Maybe they’d want toe, you know, buy more screenplays. And the manager came out. What the hell you doing? Told him what I thought I’ll pay you to think inside. You know, like there’s no customers in there. Okay, I’ll make sure the yogurt still pumping it full blast and I quit. I just quit that job. I mean, like, I couldn’t even begin to understand why someone would invest. I mean, t own a franchise bring fifty grand to at least to buy that franchise. Why wouldn’t he invest in the two seconds? It took a little elbow grease to make the police claim that might bring in more customers. What the hell You know, But you’re not paid to think you’re not paid to think my favorite line. Yeah, I just I I encourage if any kids listening Those teenagers, if you if you boss says that to you quit quit. I will hire you. Just quit it. Probably worse thing in the world that you could possibly do because you have customers who you have customers who every day could be helped by people who are paid to think. And that’s the one you want. We gotta wrap up. Tell me what you love about the work you do. I get paid to talk. I mean, my God is the same stuff I used to get in trouble for in high school, but on a bigger picture, What I really love about it is being able to open someone’s eyes and haven’t come back to me. I run a series of masterminds called Shank Mines, Business masterminds, shank minds dot com There, daylong seminars around the country and I had some kind of meat. You know, I took your advice about X, y Z, and I started listening little more. And I just got the largest retainer client I’ve ever had in my life by a factor, for she goes, and I just can’t even thank you. Never said gorgeous by-laws akhilesh. Like, I can’t even thank you enough. Oh, my God. Being able to help people, you know, at the end of the day, we’re I’ve yet to find another planet suitable for life. I’m looking so we’re all in this together. And if that’s the case, you know, why wouldn’t we want to help people just little bit more? You know, there really isn’t a need to be, as do she is as we are as a society. We could probably all be a little nice to each other, and you’d be surprised if it’ll help. The book is Zombie Loyalists, published by Pal Grave. McMillan comes out in January. You’ll find Peter at shankman dot com and on Twitter at Peter Shankman. Peter, thank you so much. Pleasure is mine. Thank you. Always loved the zombie loyalists. Show Peter Shankman. Thank you so much Next week. Customer loyalty with Curtis Bingum. See the relationship there was. This show was put together, Man. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, Find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits. Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuing Capital P where you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Read your cps dot com by tell us they turned credit card and payment processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony Tell us, and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Lee Boyd says the line producer shows social media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our reb guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn. You with me next week for Non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Hyre.
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