Nonprofit Radio for September 21, 2020: Your Leadership Pipeline & True Consultant Love

My Guests:

Dennis Miller: Your Leadership Pipeline

Dennis Miller returns to encourage you to identify and develop future leaders in your nonprofit. He explains what goes into your leadership development plan. He’s president of Dennis C. Miller Associates.



Loree Lipstein & Tracy Shaw: True Consultant Love

If your leadership pipeline is lackluster, you’ll have to hire outside talent. Our 20NTC panel helps you pick the right match for a great consulting relationship. They’re Loree Lipstein and Tracy Shaw from thread strategies.

Loree Lipstein Tracy Shaw





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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Transcript for 507_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20200921.mp3

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[00:00:33.94] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of declare veins if you inflamed me with the idea that you missed today’s show Your leadership pipeline. Dennis Miller returns to encourage you to identify and develop future leaders in your non profit.

[00:00:40.74] spk_0:

[00:02:08.74] spk_1:
explains what goes into your leadership development plan. He’s president of Dennis C. Miller Associates and true consultant Love. If your leadership pipeline is lackluster, you’ll have to hire outside talent. Our 20 NTC panel helps you pick the right match for a great consulting relationship. There are Laurie Lips Teen and Tracy Shaw from Thread Strategies. Antonis. Take two. A change to plan giving accelerator response erred by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives, raise more money changed more lives. Tony dot Emma slash dot for a free demo and a free month. I’m very pleased to welcome Dennis Miller back to the show. He is a nationally recognized expert in non profit leadership, executive search, strategic planning and board and leadership performance coaching with more than 35 years experience. Once upon a time, he was president and CEO of Somerset Medical Center and Foundation in New Jersey. Now he’s president of Dennis C. Miller Associates. He’s at Dennis c. Miller dot com. Welcome back then. It’s similar,

[00:02:10.84] spk_0:
All right. Great to be back. It feels like being back home. It’s great.

[00:02:14.60] spk_1:
Back home. Good

[00:02:16.44] spk_0:
a long time. I’ve always, you see since grammar school because distinguished myself

[00:02:20.35] spk_1:
from the that from that comic Dennis.

[00:02:24.23] spk_0:
And I just tell people I’m actually funny today. It’s so that’s right from

[00:02:27.57] spk_1:
the fraud. Yeah, he’s the fraudster. You’re the original. All right. Dennis Charles.

[00:02:32.68] spk_0:
His mother gave him my name. Put it that way.

[00:02:36.04] spk_1:
Yeah, very good. Alright, alright. So leadership are non profits. Not doing a good job bringing up talent from their ranks. What are you seeing, Dennis?

[00:03:07.04] spk_0:
What’s not necessarily that they’re not doing a good job. I just think there’s not a focus that they need tohave here. I mean, I tony, I tell a lot of people that typically today with, you know, Kobe 19 this is the time to do a number of key things. Shopping up your vision, shopping up your board, shopping up your branding flans me. But really, a lot of tension has to be paid to assess your leadership talent from within new organization. I mean, you know this quite well. I’m sure your listeners to is that the thing that makes an organization successful is not the bricks and mortar it’s of people. And we need to invest as much as our in our own people as we possibly can, because there are our future leaders. So it’s really crucial that we take a step up and invest in our leadership development.

[00:03:31.01] spk_1:
How do we distinguish between folks who have leadership potential on dhe? Those who don’t

[00:03:56.64] spk_0:
well, a couple things first and organization really should do is think about what its overall strategic goals or for an organization, and then looking at every position they have in the table of organization as any level of management, whatever one of the conferences that one needs toe have to succeed in that job, particularly if that job becomes available. What we do is that we do an assessment of each leadership person and When I say leadership, I’m not talking about the top level

[00:04:03.53] spk_1:
people. This is not only for CEO. Yeah,

[00:04:48.94] spk_0:
this is for everybody that has a title of supervisor, part time, weekend outreach coordinator. Whatever this is, the leadership of support term for us is the kind of we do an assessment of them to our farm to Alexis. And it really kind of measures core attributes. Um core attributes the things along, the lines of reasoning, ability of people contact their attitude, their sense of urgency will take charge. There’s things like that. They’re competitive. So once you assess their core traits, not court aptitudes core traits, you can then put together a development plan for those core traits and kind of move people on which I’ll happy to explain. But it’s really assessing where someone is and give me a plan of action to develop. So they become for productive and more forceful as a leader going forward.

[00:04:53.54] spk_1:
Do you feel that anybody has leadership potential if they’re if they’re brought along the right way? Or they’re just some folks that are not are not meant to be leaders.

[00:05:03.04] spk_0:
Yeah, Well, listen, you know, there are people I think you can learn to be a leader. I think that I think I learned to be a leader. I think there’s some people that certainly are born probably with certain attributes or genetics that predisposed them towards a leadership position, something sometimes. But I clearly think people can can learn to be a leader and certainly buy things in their environment or things in their life that they have to make choices on. So I think people can develop if they want to. But here’s Brian saying Everybody you have to choose and decide You wanna be a leader And I think there’s a lot of ways of helping people become leadership. But it’s a question, if you wanna, you wanna be a leader. If you wanna be a leader, you wanna be one. Yeah,

[00:05:42.56] spk_1:
all right, that’s true. A lot of folks may not aspire to that. They’re just absolutely don’t know. They don’t want to supervise other people and,

[00:05:49.84] spk_0:
well, you know. And there’s a

[00:05:52.27] spk_1:
place for them as well. Of

[00:05:55.14] spk_0:
course it you and I know that the future and even today I mean we need leadership we need. Teoh is a people business. We’re in and so we need to develop or potential. Those are assets.

[00:06:05.64] spk_1:
Well, I know you chose to be a leader because one of your books is mopping floors to CEO. Yeah, I know you’re you’re chuckling, but that’s your book title.

[00:06:53.64] spk_0:
Yeah. What is it? You know, I I’ve had a successful 35 40 year career, but I started out really difficult challenges. And I did actually my floors when I was, you know, young man and was sort of homeless and went to a very difficult time in life, and and I chose to become a leader, and I ended up becoming a, you know, CEO and had a long term career of 25 years of medical, business and corporate executive and CEO of two hospitals. And I had my own business for 16 years, so I chose to be a leader. Absolutely. But, um, you know, I think that we need to sort of, you know, uh, the issue was also about, um, confidence and developing self confidence to people that they can be leader. And I think you know, most people somewhat lack some level of self conference. Some people, as you know, have too much self confidence and probably not riel, but I think tony to a lot of people. Given the opportunity to experience that chance, I think people will grow with it. I mean, no one gets to be a major league baseball player without starting with Tebow or literally. So. I think that, um, but I just to me is really important. It’s not not something we could do tomorrow. We don’t You could do this without any, almost without any dollar investment. But if we don’t invest in our people and training our people give people a chance to grow and develop. No one stays in a job forever, and it’s really crucial, particularly in any sector. But it’s not public sector, which is really the glue that keeps our communities together through these difficult times. And this is the worst time I can in 100 years, at least for this country, for the world leadership of development. And so what is the what are the benefits? When you tell people that you’ve been selected to be part of a leadership development program, it inspires enthusiasm. The morale goes up, retention goes up. People feel a sense of future

[00:08:11.34] spk_1:
I was just gonna ask you, Do you tell folks that they’re in a leadership pipeline? Leadership will tell someone Way leadership potential in you.

[00:10:00.34] spk_0:
Yeah, I think One of the ways way. Do it. Twofold. One is to start with, just, you know, hopefully everybody has some form of performance evaluation system. So to evaluate people, how they’re performing on those, whatever they might be a those top 20% performers, whatever they have earned the chance to be in sort of. What do you want to call your own organizational, leadership, academy or institute? Whether you have 50 people working with you or 500 people working, too, you want to kind of identify those people based on their performance. Then those people have not made the grade. You could explain to him what you need to do to make the great so you could motivate them to say, Listen, you need to beam or focus on working with others. Well, not just yourself, so you can point out the thing that they need to do to get into that leadership club here. It’s a huge reward to do that, and then obviously there’s a lot of things that one can dio and the types of courses one can take online courses using your own staff as mentors. There’s a whole range of things to focus in on, but clearly there’s a lot of leadership conferences today that we need to use to successfully leader organization. But we didn’t use yesterday, so I’ll give you a couple examples you clearly today more than before, visionary thinking is crucial. Compensate. That has to have, I mean, mission support. Mission focused is crucial but visionary thinking. It’s important relationship building. It’s a simple thing, but clearly how well you can earn people’s trust. Respect your passion for the organization, Emotional intelligence is a huge issue to be able to be able to identify and grow. Used to be I Q. Now it’s like you entrepreneurial spirit, having the ability to understand that today you know most of our funding is not going to come from public sources, and most of our, uh, you know, funding, particularly with Kobe. 19. This the federal government statement cameras. We’re running out of money so don’t dependent on public funding together. But on tomorrow, Spirit Mayor convinced people to invest in your success. That’s it’s fun. You issue of collaboration wth issue of being a motivational leader of vision will be able to be successful succession planner s. So there’s a lot of conferences that people need tohave today and the skills that need to have going forward and not necessarily the skills that led people to success in the past. So today there’s new companies that needed, and we need to encourage people to develop those.

[00:10:47.67] spk_1:
All right, so you can you identify these? I mean, you’re not gonna find somebody who’s got all these competencies? I don’t think, but you’re you want toe identify people who have potential, right? I mean, maybe they they think they think broader, you know, they think market wise. So that gives them a broader a broader perspective. So that’s that’s encouraging on. Maybe they’re on top of that. They work well with others, but you’re not gonna find somebody’s got all these, you know, 68 competencies. Right? But you’re looking for you’re looking for potential in folks, right?

[00:12:29.76] spk_0:
Yeah. Nobody is perfect. Nobody has everything myself included. Clearly what you want to do is focus on where people are at today. So what are their best attributes today and give people enough because there’s thousands and thousands of people every day who are visionary thinkers in our own communities, but give people an opportunity to be exposed to it. So let him explain What? What does it mean to be emotionally intelligent? What does it mean to be able to regulate your own emotions? What does it mean to be able to identify the emotions of others, to make sure that your own emotions are causing, uh, friction within other people? So how do you respond to people’s emotions? So there’s a lot of things one can learn what can learn about governance, what can learn about flan to be what can learn AA lot of things, how to develop goals and follow through and give people an opportunity to it. But if we don’t sort of seed if we don’t seek ways of training, are currently has become better and are potential leaders become even better emerging leaders, we’re gonna be on the show. So we have to focus on as much as we can developing people.

[00:12:32.87] spk_1:
All right, we’ve identified these people, by the way you might hear some background noise. I have some work going on on my deck up above me. So in case you here’s some background sawing or pulling boards up or anything, that’s what’s going on.

[00:12:49.07] spk_0:

[00:13:07.64] spk_1:
z unavoidable. So all right, way to identify these people? How do we invest in them in their futures? Or do we? Is it a matter of sending them toe professional development courses? Is it giving them mentors? Is it broadening their responsibilities in the organization? How do we develop these, these folks?

[00:13:45.84] spk_0:
What’s a couple of things and your questions right on the money. So it’s a every organization. Just as you have a strategic plan and you have a business plan and operating budget plan, you should have a leadership development plan. And what does that mean? Just what you said here. So sometimes you wanna be able to, uh, creators and met the ship. So who would The organization would be a good mentor, Somebody else’s to identify your mentors. Mentors and coaches here identify potentially some their courses or topics that one can teach about sort of through a lunch and learn. Uh, there are. We are firm. We have online courses. We have an online course called How to become a high performing, non profit executive leadership team. A CEO’s guide. The organizational success So you could take this course relative very inexpensive, a tw home in your office on your mobile app. And so there’s ability to interact with that. There are certainly a books one take their certainly things on the website. You can think so, But if you wanna let people put somebody in charge of your leadership development for maybe or HR executive, maybe you’re Cielo. But anybody here? So you want to stop. Wish more of a formal leadership development program, just as you would with anything else here, just as you wouldn’t and you’ve developed. You have a development plan, a fundraising. But how do we get more donors dollars? There’s an effort put into that right. You hire someone, you have a program. We have a plan. You might bring an outside consultant. Focus in on your leadership development the same way here. I think that you can clearly think about this. If you’ve been identified as a potential method that makes you feel good. Also, to know that you’ve been recognized as someone who could be a mentor here, So this has a really, really positive feature here. So if you assess people’s talent, you do have to assess people’s talents based upon their performance and again people our farm. We have something called Alexis, which we measure people’s core attributes and things like that, but certainly, um, development program.

[00:16:02.84] spk_1:
It’s time for a break turn to communications. The world runs on relationships we know this turn to is led by former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists when you wanna be heard because there’s breaking news and you wanna show yourself as a thought leader in your field, those relationships are going to help you get heard because journalists are gonna take your calls because they already know you turn to specializes. In working with nonprofits, they understand the community. One of the partners was an editor at The Chronicle of Philanthropy. They’re at turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to your leadership pipeline with Dennis Miller. Is this a program that’s for individuals? It’s individually tailored or it’s a It’s a leadership or professional development program that is universal for for all all the potential talent we

[00:17:24.24] spk_0:
see, I think as an organization, I think you should have overall organizational, um uh, leadership development plan, just as you would in order overall organization plans. We plan. So overall one. Now, just as you have a plan for annual giving and playing, giving and major gifts and grants things like that and then each person that was that in your employment, each person that’s part of your team should have their own individual sort of plan assessment based upon their own personal. That’s what they need to do. So example here, if they’re assessing, they find that their you know their their reasoning ability as well. They enjoy people contact, but maybe do not take charge. So now you have to find a way to help them build their self conference so they could take charge so each each other, assess each person individually at the same time having any part of the group here. That’s how it works. It’s like coaching sports team. You have a team, you know, whether the Yankees or the Mets or the Dodgers. Whatever. You have a team out there players, but each person is also coach in your position, so that’s how you do it. You

[00:17:24.48] spk_1:
mentioned mentoring could be could be valuable, say a little more about that. I feel like there’s not enough. I feel like it’s not enough attention paid

[00:17:31.90] spk_0:
Thio your your friend or family next, tony. But I think I look at myself here. I mean, telling yourself here, I asked, You know, your listeners, Has anybody ever meant that you have? You had a mentor and I’ve had a number of mentors and they’re just people toe the surrogates and supporters, people that maybe there were role model to you. So someone, you know, that’s that’s probably the best thing if there’s anything that you kind of listen come away from today is is is you know, think about the idea of mentorship just where your organization can. You have people become, you know, become a member.

[00:18:16.94] spk_1:
Let’s let’s talk. Let’s drill down because I’ve had other guests, you know, talk about the value of mentoring. But but and you’ve said you’ve had many mentors, what does it look like? Do you schedule a bi weekly or a monthly? Our together

[00:18:21.86] spk_0:

[00:18:22.22] spk_1:
there’s some banging going on. By the way, you might hear our radio to my my contractor likes, uh, music of the sixties and seventies.

[00:18:32.57] spk_0:
So outside my office to say,

[00:18:33.76] spk_1:
Okay, you got recycling. All right, well, you might hear some credence. Clearwater Revival. Um, hey, if you can hear his music, that’s the There you go here that there you go, pulling that, pulling those deck boards off. All right. So mentoring the details of mentoring. What? How does it work? Let’s talk about the nuts and bolts of a strong mentoring relationship, like in your own. In your own example,

[00:18:59.84] spk_0:
I It’s an excellent question, I think. A couple of things here. Thanks. You certainly can. And as an individual, be seeking a mentor. So try to identify someone maybe in your and your neighborhood, maybe in your organization, maybe in your church.

[00:19:17.84] spk_1:
All right.

Special Episode: POC Underrepresented In Nonprofit Leadership

My Guest:

Sean Thomas-Breitfeld: POC Underrepresented In Nonprofit Leadership

Sean Thomas-Breitfeld

The willingness and skills of people of color aren’t represented in leadership circles. That’s the main message coming out of Building Movement Project’s report, “Race To Lead Revisited.” We visit the report’s conclusions and recommendations with BMP’s co-director, Sean Thomas-Breitfeld.


Listen to the podcast

Subscribe to get the podcast
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Turn Two Communications: PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is our mission.


Dot Drives: Raise more money. Change more lives.

We’re the #1 Podcast for Nonprofits, With 13,000+ Weekly Listeners

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

View Full Transcript
Transcript for 506_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20200914.mp3

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[00:01:48.24] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. This is a special episode of non profit radio to help you be the change around racism, people of color underrepresented in non profit leadership. That’s the main message coming out of building movement projects Report. Race to Lead Revisited We visit the report’s conclusions and recommendations with BMPs co director Sean Thomas Brett felled, responsive by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot CEO and by dot drives, raise more money, changed more lives for a free demo and free month. It’s my pleasure to welcome to the show. Sean Thomas Bright Felled. He is co director at the Building Moving Building Movement Project. He previously worked in various roles at community change, developing training programs for grassroots leaders and worked in the communications and policy departments where he coordinated online and grassroots advocacy efforts and lobbied on a range of issues including immigration reform, transportation, equity and anti poverty programs. Building movement project is at building movement, or GE, and at B L. D. I N G movement. John Thomas Bright felt Welcome to non profit radio

[00:01:51.64] spk_0:
Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:53.33] spk_1:
It’s supposed

[00:01:53.87] spk_0:
to be here with you.

[00:01:54.83] spk_1:
It’s good. It’s a pleasure. Thank you. So why don’t you start by describing the work at Building Movement Project?

[00:02:02.44] spk_0:
Sure, so building movement projects been around for over 20 years, and from our founding we’ve had three main areas of focus. One is what we call movement building, looking at how organizations collaborate, how nonprofit organizations can be part of movements for social change and social justice, and what it takes for organizations and non profit leaders to really be on the forefront of making big leading some big structural changes in our society. We’ve also looked at what we call a non profits and social change or service and social change because we think there is a particular role for human service organizations in bringing about structural and systemic change in our society and that that’s really important to support on. Also encourage organizations like that to get involved in advocacy. Listen to an uplift, the voice and on power of the communities that are being served, and then the third bucket of work has always focused on leadership, so recognizing that leading a nonprofit organization is a very hard job we’ve always looked at What does it take for leaders? But also, what does it take for non profit leadership? Thio really have aligned both the practices of leadership with the values that organizations hold. And so over the last several years, we’ve been particularly focused on issues of race and leadership in non profit organization. That’s what the race to lead work comes out of.

[00:03:41.14] spk_1:
Okay, right? And the This race to lead revisited report is really comparing a 2016 survey for the original race to lead with a 2019 survey for this report. Exactly.

[00:04:04.84] spk_0:
Yeah, so we surveyed people working in the nonprofit sector both in 2016 and 2019 on these issues of race and leadership. So this report race to lead revisited at some comparisons between the findings from 2016 and 2019 to see how the sector’s been evolving

[00:04:55.34] spk_1:
and you did have some new questions as well. We’ll have time to get to some of those, um, you talk about Well, first I got to say, I realize the contrast here I have long white hair and you have short, dark hair. We are. We know in the hair. We are. We’re not similar in hair. My God. Uh, yeah, OK, Sorry I couldn’t help notice. Um, you talk about we’re gonna have fun on non profit radio. I mean, it’s a serious subject, but we have fun nonetheless. So you talk about white advantage in the report versus white privilege? You mentioned white privilege once or twice, but predominantly. Talk about white advantage. What’s the What’s the difference there? What? What? What are you trying to say? A little different than the the more seems more common, you know, white privilege.

[00:05:05.24] spk_0:
Yeah. So what’s the term white advantage? What we’re trying to focus on is some of the structural advantages that accrue to non profit organizations based on, you know, multiple people in positions of power being white. So particularly thinking about the composition of boards and the composition of senior leadership teams. Um, because, you know, I think oftentimes the analysis is very individualistic, right? So, like, there’s an individual white person in the executive director role of the organization that only paints part of the picture on DSO we wanted to have a more complicated and nuanced analysis of what’s actually happened. An organization s O, that it became less about, like, the it one person at the top of organizational hierarchy. And think about it, uh, in a way that encompasses both the board leadership and senior staff.

[00:06:04.44] spk_1:
Okay. And then the structures as well, it seems thio less focused on an individual or individuals and mawr, uh, levers of power and processes policies.

[00:06:27.04] spk_0:
Exactly. And it also became a way thio understand and sort of unpack. Um, how, uh, sort of whiteness of organizations that, like in our sample, right, like, 45% of respondents work for organizations where both more than 75% of the board is white and more than 75% of staff and top leadership are white on. And, you know, I think that for me, that was actually somewhat startling in surprising um, And then we also saw that those organizations tend to have bigger budgets at least was being reported by the staff. Um but then, at the same time, we’re seeing that staff were reporting more negative experiences in those types of organizations compared to organizations with more diverse leadership on both the board and senior staff levels.

[00:07:29.64] spk_1:
And so the overall message that I got from this is that the power remains in boards and at the sea levels of nonprofits, and those are predominantly white. And that and that that really hasn’t changed from 2016 to 2019.

[00:07:35.24] spk_0:
Yeah, that hasn’t well, it’s hard to know because we actually didn’t ask the question in this way back in 2016. But I think that this, um, sort of puts our data in the context of some of the research that board source has done that shows that boards are overwhelmingly the majority of non profit boards are overwhelmingly white

[00:07:59.14] spk_1:
and also not reflecting the communities that they’re serving. Absolutely. Yeah,

[00:08:01.54] spk_0:
yeah, because I think what has happened is that the function of non profit boards very often is less a function of accountability to the organization’s constituency and mission on, because organizations often have a lot of responsibility for fundraising and raising the resource is for the organization to do its work. Um, that as a result of that sort of demand, organizations often have, um, prioritized recruiting from people who holds wealth in their communities and because of racial wealth gaps that tend to be white people

[00:08:41.04] spk_1:
on dhe. That’s recruiting for both leadership and volunteer position board with talking about boards and you make it very clear we’re talking about boards as well as C suite. You know, CEO, executive director level.

[00:08:54.14] spk_0:

[00:08:56.24] spk_1:
So let’s go into the three. I guess main conclusions that the report identifies first one is that things really haven’t changed that much. We’ve already alluded to it. Things haven’t changed that much in the three years.

[00:09:14.44] spk_0:
Yeah, and you know, I’m not sure how surprising that should be. Um, for our sector. You know, I think the change is often particularly in organizations. When we’re talking about organizations where we’re talking about the composition of the staff, that kind of change is incremental, right? I think that what has shifted is that, particularly in the last year is much more consciousness raising much more awareness on the part of organizations that these imbalances, these inequities exist and needs to be addressed. Um, but recognizing that there is a problem is not the same thing is taking action to address the problem.

[00:10:18.34] spk_1:
So you are seeing mawr alright, consciousness raising awareness. It seems like predominantly because of the diversity equity and inclusion work that Ah lot of organizations have done. But it’s just sort of, you know, I’m I gleaned from the reports, just sort of scratching the surface. I mean, ah, lot of it is trainings that raise awareness, but we’re not seeing much action flowing from that consciousness raising.

[00:10:23.84] spk_0:
Yeah, And so one example of the increased consciousness was that in both 2016 and 2019 we asked survey respondents what impact to their race had had on their career advancement. And, uh, for white respondents back in 2016 roughly half indicated that their race. They recognize that the race had a positive impact on their career advancement. So this sort of classic recognition of white privilege that increased to two thirds of the white sample in 29 so one from half to two thirds. So you know that is e think progress, right? In terms of like people having a recognition and understanding that white privileges riel and that it’s positively the benefits of that privilege are accruing to white people in nonprofit organization. Um however, the same question also revealed that back in 2016 a third roughly of people of color felt that their own race have negatively impacted their career advancement, and that then increased almost basically half off the sample of people of color in 2019. So the increased consciousness is both, you know, I think leading people to recognize the ways that they have been disadvantaged as well as for white people the way that they have been advantaged on DSO. You know, we’re still left with this challenge. This problem. That race is clearly having an impact on people’s advancement. And so it needs to be addressed in organizations in ways that I don’t think training is sufficient. Thio thick

[00:12:04.14] spk_1:
right? But you acknowledge consciousness, raising an awareness that that is the first step. But we have a lot more, a lot, a lot further to go. I mean, you know, it’s just

[00:12:14.61] spk_0:

[00:12:50.24] spk_1:
widely recognized that, you know, you don’t just do trainings a couple of trainings over six months and then check your box. You know d e. I is covered. Let’s move on, Thio. Let’s move on to the gala. You know it za process. It’s a journey, you know we’ve had other guests say the same thing. It takes time. Thio, uh, change the policies, the practices, the traditions Even if they’re not written down, that our advantage ing white folks over people of color, This takes time. But you gotta You’ve got to start somewhere.

[00:12:52.74] spk_0:
Yes, and I think consciousness raising is is an important and legitimate starting point.

[00:13:42.54] spk_1:
Right? And we’re just getting started, okay? It’s time for a break. Turn to communications relationships. The world runs on them. We all know this turn to is led by former journalists. So you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships, they’re gonna help you when you want to be heard so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field turn to specializes in working with nonprofits. One of the partners was an editor of the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They know the non profit space they’re at turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to P. O. C. Underrepresented in non profit leadership. Are you going to do this in three years again?

[00:13:45.94] spk_0:
It’s a very good question. You know, it’s hard

[00:13:48.15] spk_1:

[00:13:48.28] spk_0:
know, uh, in terms of, like, capacity funding, all of those things um, but yeah, I think that it seems worthwhile to keep revisiting thes issues, given the pace of change. Um, having been pretty slow just in the time that we’ve been collecting this data.

[00:14:24.14] spk_1:
All right, Um, anything else you want to say about you know, how the the findings from 2016 are pretty similar? Uh, yeah. Continue through to 2019 before we go on to the next. Well,

[00:14:24.49] spk_0:
sure. I think the reason that we felt like it was worth restating on pointing out the similarity in in terms of the findings between 2016 and 2019 was because, um, you know, from our perspective, it was really important to state very clearly to the sector. But there are people of color who are in the pipeline that the pipeline is not necessarily the problem. Uh, there’s, I think, different metaphors that people have used unpack and try to understand what the problem is of why we’re not seeing more representative leadership at the top levels of nonprofit organizations. And our view has just been that it’s not a pipeline issue per se. There are people of color who have the skills training credentials to be in those top roles, but they face racialized barriers to actually moving into those top jobs to being hired for those top jobs. And so we just felt like it was important to remind the sector of that finding, Um and sort of not lapse back into, ah narrative that, like we need to train more people of color because somehow people of color are not ready toe lead. People of color are ready to lead, but are often too often not given the opportunity.

[00:15:38.84] spk_1:
Not only have the skill sets already, but are willing to, in fact, what willing Thio want. Thio want to advance the leadership in greater numbers than the and the white respondents?

[00:15:51.94] spk_0:

[00:15:53.03] spk_1:
E guess. There’s narrative that, you know there’s a lack of interest in in people of color advancing toe leadership. But you’ve dashed that.

[00:16:01.74] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that part of the reason that’s important is because if people hold this mental model that who wants to be a leader is, uh, not a person of color, then they’re going to ignore the leadership potential of people of color in their organization.

[00:16:26.64] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s very convenient. Well, you know, the folks of color don’t really aspire to leadership. So no need to consider them. So Okay, so you’ve you’ve dashed that it’s not so in two respects. It’s not a pipeline issue. The skills air there and the willingness Is there a ZX? Well,

[00:16:36.24] spk_0:

[00:16:42.44] spk_1:
desire Thio advance and to lead. Okay, Um right. So remember your second main main conclusion, I guess, is there is white advantage. We were talking around it. Now we come right out and say there is white advantage in the nonprofit sector.

[00:18:59.24] spk_0:
There is. And, um, you know, I think that the the white advantage takes multiple forms, right? So I think that there have been over the last several months Mawr written about like, what happened? What’s called now? Philanthropic redlining, right, that organizations that are led by people of color, particularly black led organizations, are don’t get access to the same kind of resource is as the white led organizations focused on or serving in communities of color. And so there’s really interesting research both from organizations like Abssi A ZX, well as echoing green and bridge span that really dug into that funding disadvantage. And I think that our data also showed similar findings, particularly when it comes to, for instance, e. D s of color. And this was reported on Maurin a report from based on the 2016 data but E d s of color feeling like they don’t have, they don’t get grants of comparable size to peer organization or that they don’t have access Thio relationships with funders. And so those kinds of advantages in terms of like, who funders trust who funders will give bigger grants thio all of those benefits than accrue to white led organizations that then create this financial gap between organizations, nonprofit organizations based on who’s in positions of power in that institution. And so other ways that the white advantage showed up were in terms of the sort of composition of organizations and the greater comfort that white people, uh, seem tohave in. Those organizations, for instance, on questions like Do people feel like they have a voice in their organization for people working in white, dominant organizations were both the board and senior staff are more than 75% white. That’s where we saw the biggest gaps between people of color and whites in terms of their their agreement with that statement, right? And that gap decreases as you have mawr diverse organizations. And it’s also interesting to note that the average the mean increases. So both people of color and white respondents are more likely to say they have a. They have a voice in their organizations when they work for POC lead groups. So if you know, funders want to invest in organizations that are cultivating that kind of leader full ecosystem inside of their organization that, you know, make it possible for staff to feel like they have a voice and can help to set the direction for the organization, then you know foundations would be wise to really take a hard look at their own investment and the composition of organizations that they’ve been funding on. DSI. You know, like, are these organizations largely white run or are they POC lead on. And if there are largely white one, they should start investing in more organizations that are POC ledge.

[00:20:06.94] spk_1:
You identify five opportunities which we’ll get to, and one of those is put your money where your mouth is. You just say, put your, uh, you

[00:20:08.83] spk_0:
know, money

[00:20:54.04] spk_1:
where mouth is for sure. Yeah, I mean that’s a critical lever of power is funding for any anyone, whether it’s whether it’s corporate or non profit access to capital access to markets. Um, you know, what I thought was really interesting is, um, when you were identifying whether an organization was white lead or POC lead you, you chose as a threshold for white lead, whether more than 75% whether the Board of Leadership is more than 75% white. But then for for people of color lead, the threshold was just 50%. Is that because there just aren’t enough that are that are at the 75% level? So you had to reduce the yet to reduce the threshold to define it as person of color lead? Was that the reason?

[00:21:02.45] spk_0:
Yes. I mean, I think that it reflects the sort of composition of the sector, right. So 45% of respondents reported working for organizations where more than 75% of the board and senior staff were white on then it only 14% of respondents reporting working for organizations where it was over 50% of board and senior staff where people of color, you know, like it’s

[00:21:30.25] spk_1:
hard to have

[00:21:30.98] spk_0:
a comparison between Yeah, exactly.

[00:21:34.02] spk_1:
75% shoulder, 75% for PFC. Lead was gonna be too small a sample You

[00:21:40.57] spk_0:

[00:21:41.99] spk_1:
handful of Okay, uh, e suspected. Okay. Um, yeah. The experience was a little more about the experience. How people experience how people of color experience work in a in a white led organization.

[00:21:58.84] spk_0:
Well, I have to say, this was surprised, Not surprising. But it was interesting that the data was so clear, um, that the these racial gaps were so much larger for respondents working for white run organizations compared toa the POC led groups. And, um, you know, I think that it reflects what we’ve been hearing from the focus groups that we’ve been doing across the country in terms of the frustration, particularly on the part of people of color working in organizations that, um, you know, I think often feel somewhat alienating. And where people feel like they, um their leadership potential is not recognized or supported on dso. It was just a really, uh it was nice to have the data show, uh, and really reflect what we’ve been hearing anecdotally through focus groups and interviews around the country,

[00:22:59.54] spk_1:
You mentioned three organizations that have contributed to this work. One of them was bridge span. And then what were the other to save them. Save them a little slower theater, too.

[00:23:03.21] spk_0:
Sure. So a few months ago, bridge span and echoing green partnered on a report that looked at the going echoing green,

[00:23:14.57] spk_1:
echoing green

[00:24:50.44] spk_0:
green. Yeah, they partnered toe look at the funding that had accrued to organization organizational leaders who had gone through echoing Green’s programs. And so they were able to then really track and demonstrate that black leaders compared toa white leaders who had gone through the same kind of leadership development programs were getting very different levels of financial support on So that report came out at, you know, the earlier in the spring and last winter, an organization called Absi, which is the Organization for African Americans in philanthropy. On DSO, the acronym is a B E, and they put out a report looking at what they call the philanthropic redlining, this phenomenon of financial support from foundations accruing to white led organizations rather than to POC lead or black led organizations. So they use this terminology of redlining because it’s evocative of historical policy that led to very dramatic differences in terms of what sort of development and investment was possible, uh, in cities and neighborhoods based on this policy of redlining. And their point is that the imbalances, the inequities and where philanthropic dollars flow leads toa completely different prospects for organizations. And because some organizations grow because they get the funding and other organizations sort of. Whether on the bun

[00:25:06.34] spk_1:
isn’t the large majority of the smaller organizations I think you’re special was under a million dollars aren’t Isn’t the majority of those POC lead?

[00:25:08.44] spk_0:
It was, Yeah, it was striking to see that a much larger share of POC led organizations had budgets under a million

[00:25:30.34] spk_1:
dollars compared to, for instance, what led organizations? And, ah, large, large majority of those are a million dollars or under in funding or annual budget.

[00:25:31.18] spk_0:
Yes, okay, yeah, in terms of the annual budget

[00:26:27.24] spk_1:
annual budget. Okay, time for our last break. Dot drives drives engagement dot drives relationships. Dot drives walks you through donor engagement. It’s a tool that’s simple, affordable and focuses you on building donor relationships and trust. There’s a free demo, and for listeners a free first month. Go to the listener landing page at tony dot Emma slash dot We’ve got but loads more time for POC, underrepresented in non profit leadership. And then the third main point is that d I. Efforts are widespread, you say, and their effectiveness is uncertain, I would say, but but their effectiveness is uncertain. You’re a little more optimistic. Um, so, yeah, we were scratching the surface of this before, but you know, say same or about what’s being done, but what the limitations of it are.

[00:26:35.74] spk_0:
Well, first off, I think it’s important to acknowledge that three quarters of the sample reported that their organizations were doing something related to diversity equity inclusion. And so the ubiquity of D I efforts is, you know, I think good. And I think it’s a relatively new phenomenon, right? Like it’s become the topic at a lot of conferences over the past five years. And so all of which is to say that like organizations are getting started right now, Um, and maybe it’s long overdue, but this is a moment when organizations are getting started. I think that the challenge, the frustration, particularly on the part of people of color. And the younger staff of, you know, diverse diversity of younger staff is that I think for far too often it feels like organizational checklist. It feels like a sort of double. Organizations are saying the right things, but not actually changing anything about their recruitment practices or internal hiring and promotion strategy. So, yeah, I think that that is the the frustrating in that, like the ubiquity does not equal impact.

[00:28:43.94] spk_1:
I just want to remind listeners the report is called Race to Lead Revisited and you can get it at building movement dot or ge. All right, Sean, how do you feel about talking? Oh, there’s there’s a quote. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You You pepper the report with quotes in the margin on Dhe there. Ah, lot of them struck me that. I’m just going to read one that was probably half a dozen or so that, you know, sort of stopped me a little bit. But, uh, Pakistani woman, I don’t believe I’m taking us seriously in the workplace because I am a young woman of color. I often question things which doesn’t always go over well in majority white organizations. I’ve been used as a token brown person that za harsh reality Thio Thio read and for her to admit in a survey that, you know, I’m a token. Um So I thought the quotes were very evocative.

[00:28:55.84] spk_0:
Well, yeah, thanks. I mean, we we really think it’s important to balance the quantitative data with, you know, hundreds upon hundreds of right and responses from survey respondents and then also the focus groups that we do. We also gain a ton of insights from those conversations as well.

[00:29:16.34] spk_1:
You feel OK, go into the five opportunities or is there Is there mawr anything more you wanna bring out about the the report itself? Well, this is part of the report, but about the conclusions, conclusions and findings.

[00:29:40.34] spk_0:
Well, I guess I would just add in terms of the sort of d I and, uh, there’s the both the skepticism, but also the impact, right? I think that, um, there’s, you know, I think there’s a lot of skepticism about training, often times. But our data did show that for reserving respondents that reported that their organization trained on a variety of topics. They had more positive views on the impact of training on their organization. I think that just speaks to the importance and need for organizations have, like, multifaceted well around D. I initiatives so that training is not again, like just the check box on or sort of like. Okay, we did the training on white privilege, and so we’re sort of done that the training is a way of both sparking but also sustaining critical conversations in organizations. And that’s why it’s useful for organizations to do training repeatedly and on a variety of topics.

[00:30:59.64] spk_1:
Yeah, I think it was. It was forearm. Or if organizations had had training on four or more topics than both white, the white respondents and the people, people of color respondents, um, felt it was it was more advantageous. So they got there was more valuable training than if it was three or fewer. Could you just take off a couple of different topics that that folks should be looking to training? I mean, not not exhaustive, but you know, what are some of the some of the topics that people should be thinking about training wise?

[00:31:07.27] spk_0:
Sure, yeah. So eso in terms of the topics that we tested for in the survey people indicated that whether the organization had done training on white privileged, specifically whether they had done training on implicit bias because that is a concept that I think has gained mawr currency in the sector. Structural racism, for instance. Um, like do people think of racism as just about interpersonal dynamics or as or as the result of structural, um, and systemic forces that are being replicated by policy? A. ZX well, as implicitly, um, also racial trauma and healing. I think it’s a training topic that is becoming more popular and developed, so there’s a variety of topics, and I think the important thing is just for organizations to be open to having and doing training on a wide variety of topics.

[00:32:07.74] spk_1:
And again, the more topics, the more valuable people will feel. Three outcomes are, um So let’s go to the opportunities. Then why don’t you once you start us off?

[00:32:19.04] spk_0:

[00:32:20.17] spk_1:
I’m sure. Wait. I put you on the spot. Do you know that you may not have him off the top of your head? I have notes I haven’t written down, so I don’t need thio Put you on the spot memorized? I don’t know do you?

[00:32:32.07] spk_0:
Yeah, I’ve got it.

[00:32:33.81] spk_1:
Okay. Okay.

[00:32:47.44] spk_0:
First in the first one was focused on structures as well as the experiences of staff. Right on DSO. You know, I think it’s pretty straightforward, but I think the the reason that we felt felt like it was really important toe lift up lived experience of staff working in organizations is because of what we saw in terms of those experience questions, right? Like, do people feel they have a voice in their organizations or not? Right. We also thought it was important to point out that policies have to actually be in force, right? Like organizations can’t just say this is our policy. But if people don’t see evidence that actual behavior and practices air changing as a result of the policy, um, then you know, I think there are real questions about whether that has real impact.

[00:33:22.08] spk_1:
There is, as

[00:33:23.32] spk_0:
we said earlier,

[00:33:35.84] spk_1:
you’re not walking the talk. Then if you have ah, policy on anti discrimination and someone says something derogatory and it doesn’t get dealt with according to the policy. Yeah, that’s a joke. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:33:39.94] spk_0:
Um, we also thought it was important toe, you know, really, focus on the funding dynamics, so particularly for grantmaking organizations. But put your money where, like your mouth is essentially right. Like there are increasing number of foundations, that air saying that the I is important. Ah, nde sort of signaling to their grantees. But those organizations need to take d. I seriously need to diversify their boards and staff things like that. But if the foundations have not taken similar steps, if the foundations have not to diversify their own or internal institution, or the foundations have not sort of critically examined their portfolio of grants like are there racial disparities in terms of what the amounts of funding, which organizations get access to funding that sort of thing? All of that is about foundations being very serious on reflect about being reflective in terms of their own commitments to D. I.

[00:35:24.04] spk_1:
And you have reflecting reflecting your community, which we touched on a little bit, that that was really striking, how you know it’s intuitive. I mean, I realized it, but to see the numbers of, um, Whitelighter organizations that are serving POC communities, eyes like two thirds or something, I think, um, it’s startling that leadership does not reflect the communities that they’re serving, and that includes the board. I mean, you you wanna have voices from the from the folks you’re serving contributing to your contributing to your you’re you’re major decisions a ZX the board should be doing

[00:35:28.54] spk_0:
Yeah, and again, like, as I said earlier, like, if organizations see the function of the board as about accountability as about setting the direction for the organization, then I think those organizations will see the need and value of having a board that is reflective of the community that’s being served. But if organizations have the sort of rationale for maintaining the board is to have access to people with wealth and connections, and there’s obvious reasons that organizations go that route. Then they’re going to stack. They’re bored with wealthy people in their communities on again because of racism. Those wealthy people are not likely to be people of color from the constituency that’s being served

[00:36:15.53] spk_1:
and your last one responsibility and results.

[00:36:26.79] spk_0:
Yeah, I think our sense was that organizations air pushed to track a lot of things nowadays and so, like what gets measured is often what then matters. And so our sense was that organizations should be very clear about what their commitments are going to be to race equity. And, um, you know, really track those commitments and then track the results of that come out of, like, what kind of organizational change strategies they pursue. And so, you know, if organizations they’re doing like an annual review or annual reports, are they reporting on their goals and objectives around race equity? That is one way to sort of ensure that organizations are staying on track on dhe, that its multiyear commitment

[00:37:13.58] spk_1:
it’s gonna take

[00:37:14.84] spk_0:
multiple years of change.

[00:37:38.03] spk_1:
Uh, you know, just pay attention. You can move the needle on things. If you start paying attention to them, you’re saying, if you measure it, you’ll you’ll you’ll be. You’ll be accountable to it. So high attention to it. If your If your statements say that you value racial equity, then measure it, hold yourself accountable and commit to those years of change.

[00:37:41.23] spk_0:
Yeah, and I think it’s even better if organizations do that. Make that accountability public, eso that they’re the sort of reporting is to their staff. It’s to their board. It’s to their community so that, like the statements of the organizations stand with. For instance, black lives matter, then backed up with organizations being able to say. And here’s how we lived into that commitment. Here are the things that we did over the past year that made that riel,

[00:38:10.82] spk_1:
Sean, anything, anything at all that we didn’t cover that you want to talk about.

[00:38:16.52] spk_0:
Um, no, I think we covered a lot.

[00:38:34.22] spk_1:
Okay, well, we did. You know, it’s not profit radio. We cover a lot of ground, but, you know, we can only scratch the surface. I mean, we cover a lot, but what you want to read the details, So just get the damn thing. Uh, the report again is, um race toe lead racing. No race race, the lead race, the lead be visiting

[00:38:38.27] spk_0:
the lead revisited.

[00:38:49.92] spk_1:
Used to lead you visited. You’ll find it at building movement or GE. That’s where you’ll find building movement project. And Sean Thomas Bright felled. Who is co director, right, Sean, Thank you very much. Thank you.

[00:38:52.07] spk_0:
Thanks so much for having me

[00:39:32.72] spk_1:
absolutely appreciate your time. Thank you. Reminder were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives raise more money changed more lives. Tony dot Emma slash dot for a free demo and a free month, Our creative producer is clear, Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy. This music is by Scott Stein and with me next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for September 8, 2020: Decolonizing Wealth

My Guest:

Edgar Villanueva: Decolonizing Wealth

Edgar Villanueva’s book, “Decolonizing Wealth,” takes an innovative look at the purpose of wealth. His thesis is that the solutions to the damage and trauma caused by American capitalism—including philanthropy—can be gleaned from the values and wisdom of our nation’s original people. He’s a Native American working in philanthropy. (Originally aired 11/30/18)


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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Nonprofit Radio for August 24, 2020: Text More & File Cleanup

My Guests:

Ann Marie Ronsman & Alli Stephens: Text More
Volunteer training. Board work. Continuing ed. You can do all these and more by texting, with its high open and engagement rates. Our 20NTC panel explains how. They’re Ann Marie Ronsman and Alli Stephens, both with CASA Child Advocates of Montgomery County, TX.




Julie Chiu & Ilene Weismehl: File Cleanup
Are your digital files a mess? Can’t find what you know is there and co-workers putting files where you think they don’t belong? Julie Chiu and Ilene Weismehl share their tips on organizing, creating and maintaining clean shared folder drives. Julie is from Cara Chicago and Ilene is at Community Catalyst. This is also part of our 20NTC coverage.




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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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[00:02:27.01] spk_0:
way big profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with hyperhidrosis if you made me sweat about whether you’d miss today’s show. Text. Mawr Volunteer Training Board work. Continuing ed You can do all these and more by texting, which has high open and engagement rates, are 20. NTC Panel Explains how they’re Annemarie Ron Zeman and Olly Stevens, both with Casa Child advocates of Montgomery County, Texas, and file cleanup or your digital files a mess. Can’t find what you know is there and your co workers are putting files where you think they don’t belong. Julie Chu and Eileen y Smell share their tips on organizing, creating and maintaining clean shared folder drives. Julie is from Cara Chicago, and Eileen is that community catalyst. This is also part of our 20 NTC coverage on Tony’s Take two. A free how to guide were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and buy turned to communications, PR and content for non profits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot CEO and in a couple of weeks will have a new sponsor here is text more welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC 2020 non profit Technology Conference conference, of course, had to be canceled. We are continuing, persevering virtually. We are sponsored a 20 NTC by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Martin for a free 60 day trial. My guests on this day to coverage are Annemarie Ron Zeman and Allie Stephens. They’re both with Casa Child Advocates of Montgomery County outside Houston, Texas Casa, of course, court appointed special advocates. And Marie is director of training. And Allie is marketing and communications director. Ali and Marie. Welcome.

[00:02:39.94] spk_1:
Thank you. Glad to be

[00:02:40.82] spk_2:
here, gear.

[00:02:42.10] spk_0:
I’m glad we’re able to work this out virtually. So

[00:02:44.60] spk_4:
you’ve been

[00:03:08.67] spk_0:
doing a lot on with Well, you’re you’re NTC Topic is using text SMS to train, educate volunteers and build community. So you have been doing a lot with text messaging for volunteers. Your board? How did this all? Ah, how did it get started? Was it started? Experiment And it blew up or what? To the point now where people are asking for the messages if they don’t get them. How did it get started?

[00:03:14.44] spk_1:
Well, when I came on board a little more than two years ago, we had some training challenges that lots of nonprofits have, which are, you know, limited space, limited staff time. And our organization has a little bit of an upside down volunteer models. So we have a small number of paid staff and a large number of volunteers. And of course, some of those volunteers air retired. But many are working. And so it’s hard, tough, a time that works for everybody. And then, of course, space. And so we came across this technology that was being used for training in Fortune 500 companies, and, well, why don’t we try and adapt it for our environment? And, uh, really, we’re not sure how it would be received.

[00:04:12.98] spk_0:
Okay, I love that You, uh, picked up something from from Fortune 500 from industry and and and tried it out. And so, like I said, So now people request the messages when they when they’re not coming, If there’s a lapse, they start wondering what happened to you.

[00:05:00.44] spk_1:
Yes. So we when we started, we were very worried that our training by text was going to be seen as an annoyance and that, um, you know, it was going Teoh be seen negative by our volunteers. And actually, the opposite has has happened. People enjoy the text, they look forward to them. And, uh, you know, sometimes around the holidays or other times, we have a period of time where we don’t do texts for training or sometimes we upload our list periodically. And there’s a glitch in our database and where people off the list and they send me an email and say, I’m not getting texts, where’s our training? And that’s about the opposite of what we expected.

[00:05:03.93] spk_0:
Yeah, that’s fabulous commitment that I love it. Um, now the the special advocates Are they attorneys or or not? You are some of your volunteers attorneys or no,

[00:05:17.69] spk_1:
um, maybe one or two. Um, you know, from fields outside of child welfare, but in intact

[00:05:22.58] spk_0:
money. Okay,

[00:05:32.80] spk_1:
In Texas, they’re all volunteers from various walks of life, which is part of what makes this training so valuable. So we have stay at home moms, and we have a retired superintendents, and we have, um, you know, it’s presidents from oil and gas companies. And we have teachers and and the whole engine that makes training a challenge, because everybody is coming with a different skill set.

[00:05:48.24] spk_0:
Um, and some of what you’re doing, Ali is is, um, continuing education training. Right?

[00:06:50.20] spk_2:
Right. So are advocates are our volunteers were actually required to have Emery? Is it 16 hours, 12 12 hours of continuing education annually after they have completed their first year as an advocate? We have pre service training. That’s 30 hours, plus three hours of court observation. But then, after that, first year service advocates have to maintain 12 hours of retuning education. So that was what Emery was talking about earlier. You know, it’s hard because it is managed wearing required, but in meeting on their names are volunteers needs, um, you know, it was a definite challenge, So just the way we thought it would benefit them and making it convenience. Um, And where they could basically watch or train at their time, their own time? Yeah, it’s worked well.

[00:06:51.47] spk_0:
And how about the board communications? What do you using texting for their

[00:07:23.57] spk_2:
So that sort of something we’ve we’ve just dipped our toes in, but I’m way sort of launched the Advocate training first on dhe. We thought that was a good Well, that was really our goal at first was to train advocates. But then once we sort of got into that, we realized there were lots of opportunities that we could train. Also are board members, possibly staff and yeah, in ways that

[00:07:25.24] spk_0:

[00:07:39.14] spk_2:
had not done before. You know, in person training was our primary source of training. So this was something that was experimental. And we’re expanding to board training now, okay.

[00:08:01.62] spk_1:
And our board members to come from a wide variety of backgrounds, and so they’re used to being the smartest and the best educated people in the room. And eso This gives them a way to learn about the field of child welfare. You know, while they’re waiting to board a plane or sitting and waiting for a meeting in the end and, you know, helps up to understand the work we do so that they can better help serve our organization.

[00:08:08.74] spk_0:
And this transcends generations. Do you say from Gen. Z to baby boomers, right?

[00:08:21.75] spk_1:
Yes. Everybody has really enjoyed it. And again, the baby boomers were the ones that we thought would not embrace this and really have they really have?

[00:08:25.64] spk_0:
Are they some of the ones who look for the messages when when they don’t come?

[00:08:29.64] spk_1:
Yes, yes,

[00:08:53.55] spk_0:
I’m thinking probably more so. Retirees and wondering what it’s time. It’s time for my training. Where’s my yes? OK, where the Gen Z’s brother like it’ll come and you know I know, I know. I’m still in the queue where it’ll come. Okay, Um so let’s dive into some of some of the details, um, on then. Oh, you’re also doing just in time training. So last minute, I guess, like court, court decisions or things like that. I’m sorry. Before we get into the some of the details, what’s your just in time training? What is that?

[00:09:31.14] spk_1:
Well, if we haven’t that, you know, something changes in the way either. Are you know, Department of Family and Protective Service is is working. They pass a new policy or the change in the way courts are working. OK now with the Corona virus. But we’ve been using our drip learning or learning by text, um, extensively to help give our advocates the tools they need to help our kids in this it remote impairment that we’re in.

[00:10:05.04] spk_0:
Oh, and I neglected to say at the outset there, I’m I know you are both well and safe, and I meant to say that earlier. I’m glad. You know, I’m glad this worked out, but you’re also both safe and healthy. No. Good. Um, so, yes. So that sort of breaking news, you know, like a new policy at the state level or at a county level or something like that. Okay. Um, all right, so let’s go in. I mean, so how does it How does it work? Logistically, Help. Help Listeners. Understand, I guess. What? What you need to set up like there’s a technology platform you need where you advance your advanced load messages or something like that. How does that work?

[00:11:49.08] spk_1:
Yes. So we work with a company called Engaged by Cell, and they are the hosting platform. And, um then we, um, with a left, some of our own materials. So Allie and I work together and make some videos and some different documents that might be meaningful for our organization. Uh, I also pulled a lot of materials off of YouTube off of, um, resource is from other sites. Articles urge. Um, the goal is that all the videos are articles can be completed in 3 to 5 minutes. And you know, really what research that was. Our attention span has continued to x shorter and shorter. So, um, we really have held fast to that type rain. And, um So when are advocates click detect, and that has a little sentence or to do about what the topic is. And when the link, they know that within 3 to 5 minutes, the activity will be a complete, and we use a whole host of different topics. Uh, what’s nice about it is you can set it up, you know, seasonally if you want to. So, uh, example, in our field of work, the holidays are very hard for kids that have experienced trauma. Um, and so giving our advocate some tips about how to help kids, how to help caregivers put things in place. Um, so that, um you can anticipate and meet the needs of the kids in their homes way. Also use it around back to school time. Uh, and so, um and then we use it for our organization. So for putting on a policy, it may go out an email, but it also goes out in text with learning, which we call drip learning. Andare learning by text has about 85% open. Right? Um, and as you know, email is much below that. And, uh, so we’ve had a lot of success with it.

[00:12:22.32] spk_0:
Okay, Ali, your marketing communications. So you’re writing, I guess a lot of the content that is already all you know, all the content that’s developed in house, as opposed to the content that Emery was saying She goes out and curates

[00:13:53.64] spk_2:
since a team effort. I mean, Anne Marie and I started sort of came up with what we call buckets. So things that we thought topics we thought would be useful, whether it was educational, ab, etc, medical advocacy, legal advocacy. Um, and then we rely on a lot of our staff who special. I have a variety of backgrounds, may specialize in sex trafficking or, um, family, you know, toddler aged Children or teens. And they can kind of help us, um, collect that content. Henry does a lot of research and digging up what and if it doesn’t exist. That’s when we create it. So that’s something that’s already out there. You know, we don’t were very small. I mean, Anne Marie and I are essentially a team of two and on staff total it costs. We have about 2020 paid staff members. Um, for volunteers. We have over 300. So there’s very few of us that, um can pull together the content for this so we don’t try to reinvent the wheel. If something already exists out there that that we like and is useful to our volunteers in terms of training, we utilize that. But if it’s something that is especially thing that’s unique to our county or are advocates, that’s when we do our own videos or own documents or our own and log posts or whatever.

[00:14:39.87] spk_0:
It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As paycheck protection program. Loan forgiveness. It’s still out there staring you down. You need to get your forgiveness application in. Wegner has a free webinar that explains P P p loan forgiveness. Go to wegner-C.P.As dot com. Quick resource is and recorded events now back to text more with Anne Marie, Ron Zeman and Olly Stevens. It sounds like you have a whole, um, production schedules. Not right. But a whole schedule of when, When? Throughout the year. Different messages. They’re going to be going out.

[00:15:22.81] spk_2:
We dio um, when we first started, we thought we would focus on a topic like a specific topic each month. Where And we still sort of do that. You know, if it’s back to school, we’re certainly gonna be focused on back to school and, um, effects of of the destruction of our the disruption of schedule or lack of schedule for kids who have experienced trauma. But and really, we we do a lot of like Henry said just in time training articles that come out. Um, we just give them a variety of of materials and information to consider. Learn about.

[00:15:26.44] spk_0:
Do you have any tips for writing the, um, the text message that the person actually sees before they click through to the other content

[00:15:42.24] spk_2:
is turkey. I think we have in reads like 100 40 characters. Yes, you. We better

[00:15:42.74] spk_0:

[00:15:47.44] spk_2:
good at being succinct and, um, trying to make it enticing, But you don’t have a lot of characters.

[00:15:58.60] spk_0:
Okay. Um, So, uh, what else Um, yeah, I know you have high open engagement rates. What What else? What other ideas do you have? People like we thinking, You know, this could work for their volunteer training. What other advice?

[00:16:08.81] spk_4:
But when one of

[00:16:44.02] spk_1:
the things that’s really nice about it is that people can click the link when they have time to view it. So we have some people who click a distance. They get it. We have some people that are sitting at their kid’s soccer camp Saturday and maybe do a month’s worth of of texts at once. And then we pull a report on the back end. Um, and the way we’ve chosen a handle, it is, um, you give our kids five minutes of continuing education credit for each, you know, training that they do each strip learning. And then that does that doesn’t telling a lot of

[00:16:46.23] spk_0:
12 hours, right,

[00:17:50.38] spk_1:
right, But over. You know, it’s 40 minutes a month, and so over the course of a year, it does add up and, um, no, it just ah, and then also they can use that information that can pass along to placements where the kids are plate, you know, if they have a resource that ah, you know, video that they found helpful that they think might be helpful to a foster parent. They can pass that along to them. And although our organization is small and we haven’t used it a lot for training for employees in a look non profit that that has a larger group of staff members work equally Well, it’s a really im not particularly Tuckey. It’s pretty intuitive to use pretty, pretty logical. And, um, you know, Allie, I find the content and alley makes it pretty. And, um, you know, it really just has worked out well for us, and it’s ah, very cost effective. But also, I can I can sit down, uh, you know, for a day or a day and a half and do all of our continent for a month or six weeks. Ah, yeah. Okay. And part of that is also finding the content.

[00:18:09.44] spk_0:
Right. Okay. Um, Ali, can you talk to some of the costs? I know, uh, you both said it’s cost effective. How did you pay by the message? Oh, are is that a standard rate for the year with a cap on number of messages or on the minute, How does that work?

[00:19:13.29] spk_2:
So we do have an annual there is an annual fee, and we are, ah, out of allotted a certain amount of text messages We actually use the majority of our text go out and are used for trained by cell, engaged by cells, the platform. And then they have to kind of stub platforms during my cell and also give by cell. So please do use it also on four developments. It’s a very small, you know, that’s we started it as trained my cell. We started the train myself technology, and then we’ve done it for a couple of giving Tuesday and our own fundraising campaign. So we’re just that last year’s our first year doing that as well. So do use it for that as well. But I think we just did the math on this or executive director did, and I think it’s about messages that right, Emory?

[00:19:39.83] spk_1:
I didn’t see what her mass ended up coming back, but basically what you do is you you, by a certain amount of, um, text messages and um trained myself been really good, giving us a non profit rate and which is I believed to be much full. Oh, you know what they charge in? And, um Oh, and then we use we buy one bucket and some of those air used for fundraising. A smaller amount in our organization and the rest are

[00:19:54.64] spk_0:
used for training. Yeah. Okay. Um, I know you both said it’s cost effective. Um, what

[00:19:55.27] spk_1:
we’re sending out, we’re sending out to tax a week.

[00:20:06.45] spk_0:
Oh, yeah, that’s right. I was gonna thank you. You reminded me where wanted to go. You said 40 minutes, 40 minutes a month. So and it’s five minutes. Right? So that sounds like eight messages per month, twice a week. Okay,

[00:20:21.62] spk_1:
way wanted it to be, um, you know, enough to keep people engaged, but not so much that it became an annoyance. And we generally in the text out between 10 AM and two PM um, and usually Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, I’m

[00:20:30.26] spk_0:
tested different times of day in different days. And then

[00:20:33.57] spk_1:
that that was actually the information that trained by cell gave us as faras the best times for people to open texts and

[00:20:51.34] spk_0:
10 to 2 and Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Correct? Yep. Okay. Okay, Um I mean, we don’t have to wrap it up, e, I’ll leave it. I’ll throw it up to either of you, but we can if you feel like we’ve covered it. Anything either. If you wanna, you wanna add?

[00:21:37.72] spk_1:
I think one of the other things that has been interesting about this technology is how it has really built a virtual community. Um, and, uh, that wasn’t our intense. It actually wasn’t even non. But, you know, really, when you have advocates are advocates are all working individually. They work with individual kids or an individual family of kids to the placements. And so a lot of the work that we do is kind of an isolation that are volunteers do. And so, um, you know, they’re all getting this same article. And so what Southern? The office they can say, Hey, you know, did you see? Did you see that article about whatever? And so it’s been a really good at community building tool and, um, has has, which wasn’t on a non expected benefit.

[00:22:07.24] spk_0:
Okay, we’re gonna leave it there, then sound right. All right. All right. From court appointed special Advocates, child advocates of Montgomery County outside Houston, Texas. Anne Marie. Ron Zeman, director of training. And Olly Stevens, marketing and communications director. Thanks so much for sharing and please stay safe.

[00:22:15.74] spk_1:
Thank you very much.

[00:24:14.40] spk_0:
All right. And thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC virtually sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software. The Nolly Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant er mountain for a free 60 day trial. Thanks so much for being with us. It’s time for Tony’s Take two unleashed the game changing power of planned giving at your non profit. That’s my free. How to guide to help you get started in planned giving. Get your program started. It will help you decide if you’re ready for planned giving. If you’re not ready, of course you can stop right there. You want to read any further? If you are like most are, it’ll show you how to promote your new program and to give you strategies for stewardship of your new plan to give donors. How do you get the guide you text you text guide to 56525 were texting more today. Remember text more text guide to 565 to 5. That is Tony’s Take two. Now it’s time for file cleanup. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC. That’s the 2020 non profit technology conference. Were sponsored a 20 NTC by Cougar Mountain Software. My guest today kicking off day three of what would have been the conference are Julie Chu and Eileen Y Smell. Julie is a quality. The quality and standards manager at Kara Chicago and Eileen is knowledge and database knowledge and data manager at Community Catalyst. Good morning, Eileen. Julie. Welcome. Morning. Morning. Your workshop topic is from chaos to clarity. Practical strategies for file cleanup. Eileen, let’s start with you. Why is this? Uh, it sounds daunting. It sounds dull. Why should we motivate us? Why should we be paying attention to our Ah, our shared files?

[00:25:32.04] spk_4:
Yes. Um, anything but dull for us. We We were doing it in preparation from a move from the our local server to a cloud based file system. And we were moving partially because we needed the better technology. But also, people could not find things. There were multiple drafts, people even using the very limited search function of, um, with our local server system, people would search for things, find multiple copies, not know which is the right one. There people were storing things in email attachments. There was no central way to have our information accessible to everybody on DSO. It was critical, uh, for us to do our work and move forward to both clean of our files, which was actually a first step to get a folders. I mean, you could clean up our folder structure and then to go through our files and really get rid of things that we didn’t need organized. The things we did need to make sure that people could, uh, could get their hands on what they need in a timely way and get about the business of doing their work.

[00:25:49.65] spk_0:
Yeah. You want to build? I’m not gonna pick that up now. Sorry. Um, this is what happens, You know, working from home with multiple lines, it will stop eventually. Yeah, people, people need to be able to go to their go to their directory and get what they need quickly not wondering whether we’ve got the right file or the right draft, etcetera under. Of course, Julie, How did this come up for Cara Chicago?

[00:27:21.17] spk_3:
Yeah, So are our stories a little bit different from my leans, But we did have originally were using a bowel server and it became crowded with dressed over 20 years worth of files. Eso we had a top folder structure that had over 100 folders on dhe. All of them were accessible by anybody in the organization. Even though things like performance reviews and personal files were stored in those folders. Eso they kind of had, like, they carried the legacy of how the organization had transformed over the years over the decades. Really? So you would see, like, old apartment named files in the in, In In the top level folders. Um and so we decided a couple of years ago that we needed Teoh do exactly what I lean with, saying we needed to make sure that staff were able Teoh access the files being eat it quickly. And things like organizational or enterprise resource is like the organizational map or are master calendar. I’m weren’t buried in nested folders, so we did that and we and basically looked at what each team was using currently, and moved those folders, those files only over to a new foul server. So we’re in a different file server, which we didn’t move to the cloud like Eileen’s organization did. Um, we plan to do that in the future, but at this point, we’re all using we’re using another clean folder structure in a different belt server.

[00:28:31.47] spk_0:
I want you both to know that I am sympathetic to this. Um, I’m very scrupulous about creating top level folders that for it to be a brand new category or ah, it’s a high threshold for me. But when I’m both when I’m at a client, you know, using a directory that I have access to or when I’m just organizing my own folders, I can’t my own folders, you know, including my consulting. I can’t think the last time I created a top level thought folder, so I’m scrupulous about that. I’m I’m sure it doesn’t carry down to the level that the two of you were involved in, but a taste of the top level. You know, I don’t think every new activity requires a new folder, you know, for the month or the day or something, like, you know, so I’m at least at least cautious about that. The top level. Um, you

[00:28:35.71] spk_3:
like to hear that? All

[00:29:02.94] spk_0:
right. Thanks. So trainable. Credible. But I know it goes much deeper than that way. We will to um so I guess I don’t know. It is a fair place to start. Like, how do you get your arms around this project? That who should be involved in all the all the users or just a representative from each team or something? How do you How do you get the project? Ah, the the reorganization kicked off. Julie, let’s start with you.

[00:29:14.57] spk_3:
Yeah, Yes, that’s a great question in that. That is, that was actually going to be the main focus of our present er session. So at north

[00:29:16.49] spk_4:
of our

[00:31:02.69] spk_3:
organizations, we ended up meeting with departments with individual departments. Before we met with those teams, though we had to ask each teen I mean work with each team Teoh and asked him to do some prep work. So we wean. Maybe could give a little bit more information on that because I really admire the way that she kind of galvanized each team to do that work for my organization. We I basically gave them a template, a spreadsheet, and asked them to inventory the things that they actually use on a regular basis. And I feel like that was really tedious work for the organization or the departments. But I think it really got them to think about Thean importance and the value of each of the things that they use and save on the file server. So that really just gave people kinds a kind of perspective of what they needed to bring with them into the new file server. Eso before, after after they did that, we would I would meet on Guy would organize this meetings with each team Teoh line by line and go through that spreadsheet and to talk about whether or not there were duplicates of the of each item in. Sometimes there were, um, and sometimes people did not know that they were working off of. I’m the same file but saved in different locations. So things like that kind of surfaced. So meeting with each team was definitely essential even after they did that initial inventory, because I found that teams weren’t talking about those things. They they needed somebody from the data and tech team to kind of organize them and kind of organize that conversation. I feel like, um, you know, my work and as well as Eileen’s working this project was really the importance of it was really to Teoh organize those conversations because they were not happening,

[00:31:11.73] spk_0:
All right. I mean, before we go to you on the same question, you know how to get started. I just wanna ask Julie. Did those that spreadsheet did that go down to the file level? So it was hierarchically organized spreadsheet?

[00:31:45.96] spk_3:
Yeah. Sometimes they actually did go down to the file level most of the time. Most departments have just so many individual files that we ended up just talking about folders, which it’s fine to, um, which was fined Teoh. We would just have to revisit individual files once we moved things over to the new file server. Just make sure that we were truly keeping on Lee the things that we really needed and not some spreadsheet that was really important, you know, a year or two ago, but not no longer important.

[00:32:11.83] spk_0:
People keeping old, um, male query queries of non queries, trying to say um Mail merges Mount Mel. Murder number emerges Labels. Yeah, exactly. Envelope files. Okay. All right, Eileen, about how about you? Where How did you kick this off? Help listeners understand how to get started with a project like this.

[00:32:40.57] spk_4:
And I do have to say that part of we model I modeled our way of doing it on Julie’s. Um, I had put a query out to the end 10 list. Serve is far. Aspinall cleanup. Julie responded. And so we actually this idea of working by program we I took from Julie, We completely

[00:32:45.37] spk_0:
OK, Julie. Is that why you say you admire Eileen’s work because she copied yours?

[00:32:57.34] spk_3:
I think Eileen took what we did. And just like this was 10 times better. So that’s true. Admiration.

[00:32:59.64] spk_4:
Mutually ists.

[00:33:31.54] spk_0:
Time for our last break turn to communications relationships. The world runs on them. We know this turn to is led by former journalists. So you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field. Turned to specializes in working with nonprofits, their turn hyphen two dot ceo, we’ve got, but loads more time for file cleanup.

[00:35:29.24] spk_4:
Really hard to imagine sending people off to their corners and telling them just to clean. I could not imagine that happening on and it’s been tried before. And so this whole idea of doing it in groups, which there were some, you know, some higher ups that were naysayers that said, You know when and you just have people clean But the manager’s overall, we’re so grateful that I was scheduling these three hour slots, which seemed impossible, like I thought there’s no way they would do it. They were very excited, believe it or not, uh, excited about having these three hours lots to sit with their team because they said they would never do it and it has to be done. And so it really it was both, um, great for getting the work done, but also forgetting staff excited about the project and able to, ah, to see the value of it and to be a part of the solution later on. And so the prep work, which Julian mentioned that I did, we didn’t I didn’t do the inventory, um, but I had a knee email went out to managers encouraging people to do some prep work before the three hour meetings. And so I created what I called the vault, Um, which I described to people as a storage unit in another state that you need special permission to get into. So what it was is a place that for people who didn’t want to delete things, it’s like you don’t have to delete it. Just put it in the vault, you know? So it’s like it’s something that they really don’t need, but they can’t let go of So we put it in the vault, keep it out of the way. Um, now that’s different. For somewhere, they said, we need a historic archive because we sometimes need to refer. It is like Keep that. Don’t put that in the vault because you need that. So that’s there’s difference between an active archive of the history of the program and the balls, which is essentially one step removed from from deletion. And so I asked people to, you know, creative all folder and start moving things in. I gave them just, you know, simple, simple things, just so it would be overwhelmed. Look for drafts you know, to get rid of drafts. Um, I actually should have refreshed my memory of what the other one’s work, but also, you know, looking for boulders where there might be just one file, um, to get rid of. And so I just gave them a little bit of prep work and then that most of them did and then, wonderfully, one of our senior managers, um, who was part of that, wrote a follow up to say that their session was incredibly successful because of the proper work. And so that encouraged others to do the proper to.

[00:36:11.41] spk_0:
And then what did you do in these three hour meetings with them?

[00:36:42.08] spk_4:
So we did it. They were all a little different. Interesting. We had a template, and we actually unlike Julie did these herself and we hired. I had a consultant to facilitate these, and depending on the program, they went different. So basically we would go through in the best case scenarios go through just systematically folder by folder by folder. But But in the prep work, sometimes they would write, deletes with discussion. And so we go through the those two. It’s like some that people had already identified, we might be able to delete, and we really literally deleted them in real time or moved them to a vault in real time.

[00:37:13.93] spk_0:
Okay, how about the the organization? So we’ve talked so far about what files may be needed or not needed, needed actively or needed a ZX ah, vault file. But about the folder structure, the hierarchical structure. Is there people competing around that? Is that difficult to reorganize? People used to going to a certain nested folder and finding what they need. And now it’s gonna be a different name and a different different hierarchy. Is that Is that trouble?

[00:38:28.12] spk_4:
Well, we had It hasn’t been. We had a folder structure working group. It was about across organizational group, about five people who we felt identified them based on that they could see the forest and the trees. That’s what we needed. Systems people who also, you know, strategy people, but knew what was important from a systems level and working with the same consultant. And we started looking at the existing one. She had done a lot of discovery to find out. Um what? The organ it not my phone is ringing what the organizational, um needs are, um And then we started just moving pieces around until we got a structure that reflected the way we do our work. And so by the time this working group was done because their chorus organizational and because they were taking this to their teams when we were when we released the structure, people were very relieved. For the most part, there’s always resistors. You know, Julie, right? Well, or people who were You know, if that resistors people who were slower to accept it on. And so, yeah,

[00:38:51.93] spk_0:
Kallstrom’s I like to call them recalcitrance, but they you have to try to bring them along. Julie, let me ask you about something that I lean alluded to. And that wasn’t a problem for her. About, um, leadership buy in for the time that this is gonna take was that we haven’t had that go for you. Or do you have advice about it that’s basically making the case for why so valuable that your leadership supports it?

[00:39:49.48] spk_3:
Yeah. I’m really glad that you asked that because we ended up. I am a manager and I ended up. I’m talking about how to get leadership on board. We prepared like a 20 minute presentation on the leadership team meeting. It only took 20 minutes to actually Dio, um we kind of expected, like Eileen with saying some resistance at that level just because this is a file cleanup project and we were proposing that this would take, like, a year. Um, and we went into the leadership team meeting thinking, you know, just prepared for the worst. You know, eso we went through with it and they were actually very, very enthusiastic about it. We were expecting, at the worst, just resistance to the timeline, at least. Or, um, you know, just a plain, like ambivalence about it. But people were actually very enthusiastic because it impacts daily routines. We actually also did a pre survey leading up to that leadership team meeting just to amassed staff. How long they’re actually spending searching for files what they would want in a new folder structure things like that. And we took those results to that leadership team meeting put in the presentation and we, you know, like from that survey, we found that people were spending upwards of and three hours each week searching for items on trial

[00:40:26.16] spk_0:
that that’ll help make the case

[00:40:27.82] spk_3:
Exactly. Yeah,

[00:40:29.04] spk_0:
hours they aggregate the time over a week. Three hours. Okay, Right for

[00:40:51.54] spk_3:
over items. And so we way used to say that. Yeah, that would be That would mean that overall of about one full time workers. Time was actually spent each each month and little for files. So that was a really, you know, like, hard hitting kind of figure that we used for leadership team, meaning toe and really illustrate how much time was being lost doing this day to day work. So that really, really proved the case, and we started at that leadership team level, presented the plan. Teoh, do the team. My team meeting also asked that, and they support the prep work that each team would have to dio on day were They were very, very enthusiastic about that after hearing that.

[00:41:46.70] spk_0:
Okay, so you both had management enthusiasm. Enthusiasm? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, s So we still have some time together? If there’s mawr that, uh, we haven’t covered that you want you think is important for listeners who might take this on either of you is where should we go from here or yeah, anything. I have recovered it, and we exhausted the topic.

[00:42:12.70] spk_4:
Um, I think the only thing is just that, uh, for people who think that it sounds, I mean, back to the beginning of it, sounding dry that if it’s phrased is is what Julie was talking. I was just so critical to the work that it’s not administrative task. It’s really a programmatic strategic, um, piece of work. That means that people can focus on what they’re doing versus looking for things, which is no small, no small thing when you know, non profits are strapped and need to really make the most of their time in the resource is

[00:42:38.85] spk_0:
yeah. All right. We’ll leave it there, then. That’s yeah. You want to be ableto find what you need quickly, a couple of clicks and you should be there. All right. Thank you very much. That’s Ah, Eileen y smell, knowledge and database. Sorry. Did that First time to knowledge and data manager. A community catalyst. Um, your Providence, Rhode Island. Um, and Julie Chu is quality and standards manager at Cara Chicago. Eileen, Julie. Thank you very much. Thanks so much for sharing. Thank you,

[00:42:54.57] spk_3:

[00:44:01.10] spk_0:
they well, and thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software. Thanks so much for being with us next week. We’ll have more from 20 NTC. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com. You that vacuuming in the background, good work going on, and they clean up very well, Uh, before they depart. I appreciate that. So we persevere. Were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com Can you hear me? And by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our creative producer is clear, Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy on this Music is by Scott Stein with me next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great