Welcome to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host and the podfather of your favorite hebdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d be stricken with acute glomerulonephritis if I had to drink in the idea that you missed this week’s show. Here’s our associate producer Kate with what’s going on. Hey Tony, we’ve got. Julia Campbell on social media. The social media maven returns to share her thinking and advice on short form video ads, working within algorithms, content moderation, and privacy policies. Let’s talk about X, Facebook, LinkedIn, Blue Sky, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. Julia is a nonprofit social marketing consultant. On Tony’s take 2. You’re listening to a top 10 podcast. Barely We’re sponsored by DonorBox. Outdated donation forms blocking your supporters’ generosity. Donor box, fast, flexible, and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit, DonorBox.org. Here is Julia Campbell on social media. What a joy to welcome someone back who has been here several times. It’s always a pleasure. Named as a top thought leader and one to follow by Forbes and LinkedIn for nonprofits and one of the 30 nonprofit IT influencers to follow in 2025. Julia Campbell is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to designing social media and storytelling strategies that help nonprofits share their mission across the digital landscape. You’ll find Julia on LinkedIn. You’ll find her practice at JComarketing.com. JC, welcome back to nonprofit Radio. Thank you, TM. It’s so great to be back. The pod. I love it. Oh, thank you. Yeah, people get a kick out of that. I do too. I, I could get a shirt maybe give out the NTC this year. All right. It’s good to see you. We’re in a, uh, an interesting, um, sort of digital landscape time. Uh, the, the new administration sucks a lot of oxygen out of the world. Uh, just right before we came on, I got another New York Times headline. Uh, the, the first word was Trump. I got a headline that Zuckerberg is eliminating all of his charitable foundation DEI initiatives right before we got on, so. Just lovely headlines all around. Yeah, it’s fantastic uh headed in a dastardly uh in an awful direction. What are you hearing from folks? What are you advising folks, uh, you know, you’re the, the, uh, social media maven. What are you talking about? I mean, social media has really been challenging in terms of strategy for several years now just because of the way the algorithms have shifted and the way that organic reach has completely plummeted, and you do need, you know, you need to invest in ads. Ads, but the problem right now that we’re seeing, at least for a lot of the organizations I work with and the students I have and my clients, is the struggle between, are these companies ethical, which we know that they’re not. And how can we balance our need to be seen and create community and get our word out there and educate people and talk about these causes and build movements? How can we balance that that with the fact that Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk, and, you know, a lot of these companies that own these social media platforms are bowing down to the administration and then are also actually really, you know, being very shoddy in terms of content moderation and data privacy. So that’s the bigger picture that I’m seeing, and it even goes beyond just how do we get more engagement, because that’s just the Scratching the surface. So, what I’ve been advising people, I really am saying, you know, you really need to take stock. I don’t think that leaving everything and closing up shop and washing our hands of social media is really the answer, because then we kind of leave it to Um, the void to be filled with misinformation and, um, you know, we really need to still be creating our movements and showcasing our causes there. But we do need to have some serious reflection on how we’re using these platforms. Do we want to pay for ads? Do we want to continually be giving money to these billionaires. I mean, it’s really a fraught landscape right now along with everything going on just in the political sphere and the fundraising landscape and philanthropy. But the marketing, digital marketing sphere is constantly shifting and it’s just like tidal waves of bad information coming at us. It’s pretty overwhelming. Let’s try to break down some of the overwhelm, so, so people don’t feel that bad about it. Maybe just, maybe just a burdened but not overwhelmed. If we can if we can reduce from overwhelmed to to slight burden, that would be. And we tend to be very thoughtful about where we put our time. Nonprofits are very thoughtful and intentional. I mean, you know, Target’s not going to get off Facebook. They don’t care, right? They just don’t care. But the American Red Cross really might. be considering, should we get off Twitter because or X because of all of these factors. So, I think it’s a unique position that social change organizations are in. Well, you’ve, you’ve left X. You, you left X when Elon Musk bought it, uh, but you’re, you’re on LinkedIn. So, right. So how do we, you know, so how do we in the small and mid-size shops think through where, where to be and where to just, you know, place that pin that says we’re no longer here, find us on Blue Sky or, you know, whatever. How, how do we think through that? We have to really evaluate where our audiences and what we’re trying to achieve, but then also figure out where is the line that will not be crossed. So, It’s very personal, and it has to, there’s not a one size fits all that’s gonna work for every organization. If your organization relies on fast-paced news, getting things out in a timely manner, connecting with journalists, then X is probably the place for you. You know, I would never recommend if you’re getting great traction and you are accomplishing your mission. And you’re getting the word out and building a community. I would never recommend leaving a platform altogether, but we really need to evaluate is our audience still there? Are the people that we wanna talk to still here? And are we able to reach them? Maybe they’ve migrated over to different platforms and what are our strengths and weaknesses? So. You know, people ask me all the time, should we be on TikTok? Should we be using Instagram reels, and should we be doing short form video? And the short answer, of course, is yes, because that’s the most powerful kind of content right now on across social media. But if you don’t have video content, then potentially building a thought leadership blog on LinkedIn could work. Maybe going to substack, maybe going to Blue sky, maybe creating infographics and putting them on Pinterest. I mean, there’s all sorts of ways that we can be using these different platforms. And also for me, you know, I, I can’t be Amish as much as I would love to. You know, I have an iPhone. I don’t like Apple. I have Google accounts. I don’t like Google. It’s just, it’s sort of like I, I would love to live in a cabin in the woods and Not have the internet. I, I actually wouldn’t, but we have to understand that we can only do what we can do, and I think our messages are so important to get out to the public, to the community, especially with so much mis and disinformation and confusion going on, that if we’re going to leave a platform where our audience is going to miss us and be craving this information, I think that that’s That’s just a bad, that’s a bad thing to do. So if, if you have a Facebook page, a Facebook group, if you have an Instagram account, and you know you’re really reaching people there and you’re helping people, and you’re helping people understand the cause and the issue, we have to think and reflect on what will be lost if you leave. You said short form video is now the most popular kind of Instagram and TikTok. Wait, you’re valuable things, but I’m, I was, I was trying to wrap up. So again, where the best places are. YouTube shorts. And Instagram reels, um, and TikTok. And TikTok is not going to get banned under this administration, I don’t think so. If you have a TikTok account, don’t, don’t worry about it. I think you’ll be fine. OK, so let’s let’s drill down a little on short form video. What’s your, what’s your advice there? Like length, caption or not? I, I guess that’s yes, but what’s your advice around short form video? My advice, if you’ve never done short form video, go follow candid.org on every platform. Uh, they are an organization. They do not have kittens or dogs or kids or landscapes or anything that would be like a sexy kind of cause. They are just putting videos out that are helpful information, but they’re doing it in a catchy way, like a catchy, entertaining way. So it’s very important for first of all, to have a purpose for the video. Like why would I watch it, but also to have that hook that’s gonna hook me within the 1st 3 or 4 seconds. So what’s the question you’re asking? Maybe there’s a statistic that you’re sharing. Maybe it’s an anecdote of something that happened. Maybe it’s something surprising that you found. Maybe it’s like, oh, this happened in the news, but guess what? You don’t know the real story. Like, what is the hook around this video? And there has to, it has to be a very singular specific focus for the video. Also, authenticity reigns supreme. Nonprofit professionals often do not like to get at their phone. And take video of themselves. We want to sit in our office, we want to do our work, put our heads down. We don’t want to be the face of the organization, but people like to see faces. They like to hear from people. So as much as you can be authentic and be conversing around relevant real-time topics that are timely, that’s really going to accelerate your connection with your audience. It’s going to build trust and that’s gonna create more engagement for you. Awesome. All right, all valuable advice. And so candid.org doing short films they’re fantastic. Malala Fund, Malala Fund, I follow, they’re a little bit more polished. And I think that’s fine as well. That’s just their brand. Candid.org is a little, they’re, they do great videos, but they’re not as polished. It’s much more just a staff member answering a question about like where do I find grant proposals or how do I talk to a board member about a touchy subject. It’s really helpful information for nonprofits. I also recommend really following like the New York Public Library. I mean, there’s all sorts of Nonprofits, organizations doing fantastic work with short form video. Invisible people. Mark Korvath um runs Invisible people. They do a lot of YouTube shorts. They are, they just film people talking and their stories. They do storytelling and that’s their purpose, and that’s what they. That’s what they share. So, sort of find your, your purpose. Like, why are you sharing videos? What are the topics that your audience would be interested in? And then I recommend just watching a lot of reels and TikTok videos. So you kind of get the feel for how they should be structured and the feel for what works, um, before you really jump off on your own. But, you know, done is better than perfect. I always think that. Oh, very good. Uh, a lot of people say don’t let perfect be the enemy of good, but is that’s, that’s well put. Done is better than done is better than perfect. All right, excellent. I knew you, yes, well, there’s no question you’re the right person to help us through this. I hope so. I I struggle as well. Oh, you do? Yeah. Yes, of course. What do you struggle with? I, I struggle with creating short form video. It’s challenging because I’m so used to recording webinars or recording podcasts or doing long form videos, putting it on YouTube, um, you know, putting it on my website, putting it on my blog, but this constant, you know, this constant need to feed the beast of social media. It it can get challenging. Um, and then, of course, I know I work with my clients and the features are constantly changing, and what’s working is constantly changing. So, for me, I really, I Um, grapple with shiny object syndrome just as much as the next person, and thinking like, oh maybe I should be doing more on Blue Sky, or maybe I should be on Mastodon, or maybe I should be on whatever the next new social media platform is. But for me, what helps me is just knowing where my audience is, knowing where my strengths are, knowing what I like to do. And, you know, if I don’t put out a video every day, every week, just really trying hard not to beat myself up about it and doing what I can do, and quality over quantity has always been my mantra on social media, because you can, you can’t beat the internet on clutter. You can’t beat the internet on like AI sludge that’s just generated from an app, but you can beat the internet on authenticity and storytelling, which I think nonprofits, that’s our big strength. That’s like our superpower. Quality not quantity, but done is better than perfect. Exactly. Do not, if you’re spending all day doing 1 62nd Instagram reel, no, that’s too much. That’s way too much. Uh, that’s way too much time to spend. And really just getting it out there and it’s gonna give you that data that you need. So the more you do it, the more data you get, the more you see what people like, what people comment on, what people are sharing, what they’re watching. You can see how long they’ve watched it. You can see, oh, this question works better than this one, or I’m outside, and that tends to work better than inside. So the more you do it, it’s like the more data points you have for what’s working. I’m gonna give a shout out to the woman who does my video reels, uh, which, which, which we use on, uh, we post on Instagram and uh and YouTube. Her name, her name is Judith George. Amazing. Uh, she’s the video, I think she calls herself the video whisperer or the video content whisperer. Judith. She’s excellent, excellent. So I always believe in outsourcing to people. Like I don’t edit my own podcast because it’s not my zone of genius. That’s not where my Talents lie. So I would never, and that is the enemy of getting things done, I think, is because we think we have to do every single thing ourselves. But outsourcing to a video editor, I mean, these people are incredibly talented and they know exactly what they’re doing. So I, I love that idea and I wish more nonprofits would get more into, more comfortable with outsourcing some things so they’re not spending all day editing a video. You and I have talked about this before that it it’s just worthwhile to pay experts to do something that you’re not expert in that is gonna take you a long time to learn and get good at. You may as well just bring in someone from the outside who’s already got the expertise they hit the ground running and, and you’re unburdened having to learn a new skill. Yeah, and you can focus on your superpower, your zone of genius, which is storytelling, which is program management, which is fundraising, which is creating fabulous marketing campaigns and messages, talking to donors. I mean, I just think spending, I, because I’m running my social media for social good academy right now is the time of this recording, and everyone struggles with time management because they have 10,000 other things on their plate. And I think There’s no way for a development director to be able to master 10 social media platforms and create 10 videos every week. That’s just, I don’t see how that’s possible, as well as doing grant writing and donor management and cultivation and stewardship and things like that. So, I, I agree we need to start thinking, we need to take social media more seriously and stop tacking it on. To other people’s job descriptions and really think like, no, it’s time. It takes a lot of time, creativity, effort. You also have to measure what you’re doing. You have to be on top of the trends. You have to have your finger on the pulse of what’s going on in the cause and the industry and the organization. You have to think like a journalist. There’s all sorts of skills that you need to have. And I really think digital marketing, I mean, it’s 2025. Like, let’s let’s treat it seriously. It’s time for a break. Imagine a fundraising partner that not only helps you raise more money, but also supports you in retaining your donors. A partner that helps you raise funds both online and on location so you can grow your impact faster. That’s DonorBox, a comprehensive suite of tools, services and resources that gives fundraisers just like you a custom solution to tackle your unique challenges, helping you achieve the growth and sustainability your organization needs, helping you, help others. Visit donorbox.org to learn more. Now back to Julia Campbell on social media. Let’s talk about ads. Uh, you mentioned, you know, is it worth spending money on ads, or, you know, uh, is the platform one that you want to even pay because you might have basic objections to, to their management or their policies or their algorithms, but you still want to be there. What, what do we think through about whether ads are worthwhile? I do think that putting some money towards social media advertising and Google ads. That’s definitely worth it depending on your goals. So a lot of organizations say, we’re the best kept secret. No one’s heard of us, no one knows who we are, no one can find our website. OK, well that would maybe require either applying for the Google ad grants, which um I’m certainly not an expert in, but I can, I can touch on it. I mean, there are so many experts out there on the Google ad grant, but it’s basically money that Google will give you. You have to manage it well. But to um promote it’s up to 10,000 dollars a month. Yes, you do have to, you have to manage it. I mean, you have to hit certain benchmarks to continue getting the $10,000 a month. You do have to get people to click on your ads. You have to get people to actually take action. Google has to see that your ads are worthwhile, they’re not clickbait. Um, those kinds of things. But you can also just pay for Google Ads. I mean, there’s nothing stopping you from just once in a while if you have a gala or if you have a really important marketing campaign for Domestic Violence Awareness Month or Colorectal Cancer Awareness Month, and you have some resources on your website you want people to find. Paying for search engine ads can definitely be a great way to do that. I always recommend, when you are considering paying for ads, really understand what the return on investment is worth to you. So, a very simple example, I worked with an organization, a local organization here. They were having a golf tournament. They spent $50 on a Facebook ad. And the return on investment for them in terms of golf tournament signups was $5000. So that’s a pretty good return on investment, right? So, then they can say, OK, well, we’re definitely going to run this ad again, um, this is part of now of our budget. That’s a very simplified way to do it. A lot of ads I see, you can’t necessarily track it like that. It might be awareness, it might be video views, maybe you’re driving people to your website, but as much as you can say, OK, we spent $500 on this ad, and this is what we got in return, and we can quantify it and we can say, OK, this was a really good investment. Uh, that’s what I think we lose when we boost a post or we just sort of throw money at an ad and then we never look to see what happened, and we never look to see, oh, did anyone take action? Did anyone sign up? Did anyone make a donation? We just sort of throw money at the problem and make Mark Zuckerberg richer, which he doesn’t need to be richer. And then we never figure out if it actually moved the needle at the end of the day. So we should be measuring as well. Absolutely, absolutely. This is the thing that that I think is so interesting about nonprofits and digital marketing. When we send out an annual appeal letter, you better believe we know exactly how much we paid for printing, for postage to send it out, and we know exactly how much we got back. But when we write a blog post or post on LinkedIn, we don’t track. Did anyone read it? Did anyone comment? Did anyone share it? Did we get emails? Did we get phone calls? Like what actually happened when we put this other piece of content out in the world? And the irony is that it’s so much easier to track on digital. You can instantly see, and I know Tony, you do reels, you can see within the 1st 30 seconds of posting a reel if it’s gonna work or not. And same on TikTok. There’s instant data that you can get to see, oh this is gonna work, I should do more of this. Uh, this is, you know, kind of falling flat, and then maybe why is this falling flat, time of day, maybe the sound is bad, like the topic isn’t interesting. But we get all of these points of data from digital marketing, and we, we tend to just not look at them. So we’re just constantly throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks, and wasting time and spinning our wheels. So, measurement, analysis, improvement, that should be a huge piece of any social media or any digital marketing plan. You mentioned earlier on, uh, content moderation policies. Oh yeah, what are we, what’s your, what’s your beef there? This is really screwing over nonprofits. It’s really painful for a lot of organizations, especially if they use certain keywords. Now I’m kind of concerned. Well, there’s two ways to think about it. Content moderation in terms of X. There’s no content moderation. You can say anything, do anything, post anything, and it’s the wild west, cause there’s zero content moderation there. But then there’s also overly moderating on Facebook and Instagram, specifically, political and social issues. And if you’re posting certain words, especially actually if you’re using paid ads, you will be blocked if you are a social justice organization. We’re seeing this a lot, and they don’t have to answer to anybody. They can just say your ad is blocked. We’re not running your ad. I’ve seen this for um a local food bank that got their ad blocked for no reason. It’s not wasn’t a political ad. It wasn’t, it didn’t have anything to do with a political issue, but everything’s political, I guess now. But Their ad was blocked for no reason. So that’s something really important to understand you don’t need to say it violates our. They don’t need to tell you anything. They’re completely in control, and that’s the other problem. So sometimes they’ll say, oh this this falls into Like, you have to read the fine print of what’s allowed in ads really carefully. So, look up all of the specific terms, look up, um, you know, what they say they allow and what they say they don’t allow. But of course, really at the end of the day, it is the platforms, it’s the platform’s prerogative to allow you to run an ad. The other thing is, Instagram has specifically come out and said that they are going to They’re going to, um, I don’t know what it’s called, like demote political and sensitive issue content because they want their feed to be much more focused on like influencers and celebrities and fashion and happy things. And for a lot of us, I mean, I follow the HRC, I follow the ACLU, I follow so many organizations that are overtly political, and I want to know this news, and I want to hear what they have to say. Um, I’m seeing them in my feeds, but I know that a lot of people. They are saying that they’re seeing less of that kind of content because the, you know, the algorithm overlords are determining what we see and what we don’t see. It’s really true. This is why people love TikTok. TikTok is actually ironically much more of a democracy in terms of the feed, and it’s a lot easier to discover new things, and it’s a lot easier to see things that you actually like, just because TikTok has the business model where they want to show you things that you want to see. So, they’re not trying to overly police what you see. So, it’s just interesting. Each platform is so, so different in that way. What are you seeing on LinkedIn? LinkedIn, I, I really have been enjoying LinkedIn. So, LinkedIn for me though, I’m not seeing a lot of new people post. I’m seeing a lot of Um, my friends, my colleagues, you know, other consultants, people that work in nonprofits, because the LinkedIn algorithm, of course, if I comment on something or like something, if I’m connected to somebody, then they’re more likely to show me that post. I feel like LinkedIn for me, I, I don’t know how to get out of it. I might need to just expand into following some brand new people, but it’s a little bit of an echo chamber for me right now. I love it though. I am learning a lot of new things and I actually finding out a lot of news on LinkedIn, and a lot of articles and statistics and things about fundraising and philanthropy that I, I didn’t know. I follow the National Council for nonprofits for all my news around the federal funding freeze and what people can do to combat those kind of executive orders. So, but I am finding it’s harder to discover new people on LinkedIn, but that’s probably just the way that I’ve been using it. In my own little kind of bubble, um, for safety, really like for mental health reasons. Um, but I love, I think LinkedIn is a very vibrant place for nonprofits to showcase thought leadership, to build relationships with donors and board members, um, and other, you know, fundraising professionals. Yeah, I’ve been consciously following new folks a week. Yeah, so my strategy is, uh, I look at folks who make smart comments on It’s usually other people’s posts, uh, I, because I guess I’m not sure other people are doing what I’m suggesting because most of the people who comment on my posts tend to be the same, you know, there are certainly exceptions, but that’s not, that’s not where I’m finding new people to follow. I’m looking at comments on other people’s posts and saying, oh, that’s a savvy comment, you know, so click, you click the, the little, the person’s little head. And it goes to their profile and you can decide if you want, you wanna send an invitation to uh to connect. I guess I said. I love that. So yeah, you could be, it’s it’s just a proactive. I do a week. And so that it’s strategic and it’s proactive, and I want everyone listening to really embrace those two words because that is How you succeed on social media by being strategic and proactive. We can’t continue to just be reactive. We can’t continue to just post on LinkedIn or post on Facebook and then throw our hands up and say, oh well, nobody commented. We need, and Tony, you do this really a lot. Commenting on other people’s posts, thoughtful comments, interaction. That is what drives engagement and that’s how you get seen. We are not, you know, Taylor Swift, like Taylor Swift. Has 250 million followers on Instagram and doesn’t follow anybody. OK, we, we can’t do that. We have to actually go out there and find relevant people to follow and build our network proactively. So I love that you said that because I think that’s so important. Proactive and strategic. Mhm. Yes, I would love that. Well, quantity is better than perfect. Yes, that’s valuable. It’s time for Tony’s Take two. Thank you, Kate. You are listening, as you listen to nonprofit radio to a top 10. Best fundraising podcast. That is thanks to an organization called Million Podcasts. They put out their list of 100 best fundraising podcasts and squeaking in. At right at number 10. Is Tony Martignetti nonprofit Radio. Thank goodness we’re not number 11 because what, what would I say? We’re a top 11. What is that? Ah, that’s like sad tromboneswamp wap, top 11, you so. Top 10, no, we’re not top 11 or anything below. We are top 10, barely squeaked in. So I’m very grateful to a million podcasts for their, their list, and it is, it is a valuable list of 100 podcasts, different types of fundraising. Uh, there, I saw event fundraising, I saw a crowd fundraising podcasts, and some other ones you may know, Julia Campbell, uh, We Are For Good, you might know Joan Gary, people like that, but working in there at number 10. Is your is your favorite, your favorite hebdominal podcast. With you since July of 2010, each and every week for pert near 15 years. Nonprofit radio. This is all because we have this outstanding associate producer. Kate, and that is Tony’s. Well, congratulations, pod father. I mean. The work, you can see it, all the hard work that goes into the show for 15 years. Oh, you deserve it. 15 years. 15 years. We’ve got boou but loads more time. Here’s the rest of Julia Campbell on social media. To validate what you’re explaining and sharing, LinkedIn for me has become my most popular platform. I’ve got the most connections there, right? That’s a vanity. I understand that, but I’ve also got most engagement on LinkedIn and other platforms where I’m less. Strategic and proactive. I’ve just, I’ve prioritized LinkedIn, so I picked one as a priority, and I would say my next is probably blue sky where I need to be more, more proactive, but that it’s newer, but I need to spend more time there. But you know, like, yeah, no, it’s true. I mean, you know, the things we measure are the things that get changed, right? So I’ve, my social manager and I put emphasis on LinkedIn. And it has made a difference over, over more than a year. I’ve just seen a steady, steady trend in the right direction in terms of engagement. And I I do recommend for the nonprofits listening, really look at your website and see where the traffic is being driven. If, if you, building up your website and a specific, specific pages of your website or specific resources on your website is a goal. For you, you might be surprised that LinkedIn is actually driving a lot of traffic or Pinterest, or another platform that you might not have thought of. We are so conditioned to just think Facebook is the king of social media, when actually the engagement and the reach on Facebook are the lowest. It’s the lowest of all of my channels that I’m on. And it’s the lowest of all of my clients’ channels. It’s not growing. It’s growing internationally, it’s not growing in America anymore. And it’s, I find that it’s just becoming incredibly stagnant over over on Facebook. It’s actually becoming very toxic from what I’ve been seeing. But I, we just are so conditioned to think, oh, that was the very first place we joined. We got a Facebook page. We’ve had it for 25 years now. And so, What are we going, you know, what we’re not, we have blinders on almost, I think, around that. And there’s so many other exciting platforms coming up and so many cool things going on. And LinkedIn also, I will say, is really doubling down on resources for nonprofits. If you go to LinkedIn for nonprofits, they have newsletters, they have a creator studio. They do a lot with Giving Tuesday. They just, I think they’re really trying to establish themselves in the third sector, um, and I think they’re doing a great job. So definitely something to think about if you’re getting kind of sick of the lack of engagement on Facebook. That’s good advice. Take a look at. Uh, you know, all your advice earlier still applies. You know, if you’ve got a good community and it’s active there, then naturally stay, but if not, if you’re seeing the declining engagement that so many of us have seen, my, my practice included, um, you know, either leave or DM or just deemphasize, deemphasize, you know, instead of, instead of a post a day, maybe it’s one a week, maintain a presence, but. You know, if it’s not, if it’s not paying off for you, then don’t spend your time on it. Just like, just like any program that you’re doing, you know, you evaluate your programs, right? Be like you’re saying, Julia, be strategic about thoughtful about your social strategies. Absolutely. And really looking at like YouTube, I’m so shocked about nonprofits, not posting video content on YouTube when it’s the #2 search engine owned by the #1 search engine. So if you have video content and all of us do, I would hope, repurposing it, putting it on YouTube where discoverability is key. It’s not your same donors that are following you, that are gonna follow you on YouTube. It’s brand new people that are hopefully going to discover you because they’re searching. They’re using YouTube as a search engine, people use Instagram as a search engine, TikTok. I think of younger people, especially like my daughter who’s 15, she would never Google something. She would look it up on TikTok. You know, she just wouldn’t, it’s like that’s where that’s her search engine. So that’s, we need to be thinking of these tools, not in terms of like broadcasting our message to our followers, but building new followers and being discovered and hopefully reaching brand new people. So your 15 year old daughter wouldn’t wouldn’t go to YouTube to search for something. She might go to YouTube, YouTube, but probably TikTok or Insta TikTok. Uh, uh, we’re gonna take a little digression, uh, around your background. You used to have, uh, I remember you had Ruth Bader Ginsburg up for a long time. Oh yeah, I have a Ruth Bader Ginsburg, um, but yeah, I changed it. I always have the nasty woman. Well, you’ve got my painted um right after Trump got elected in 2016. That’s been up for years and you’ve got a book with a biceps. Yeah, you’ve got a framed framed framed piece that says well behaved women don’t make history. Wonder Woman and then the one the etching behind me is my mom. Threw that, um, and you can’t see it. It’s so detailed. I know it’s like a good place for it because you can’t pencil? Yes, it’s an etching. So yeah, it’s really beautiful and I was, I actually put it there so it wouldn’t get broken. I need to put it in. I need to hang it up. And on the on the end, is that Wonder Woman’s Wonder Woman. Yes. So what is it about who do you consider strong women? Who do you clearly you you have a You you have an affinity for strong women. Uh, who do you think of? Oh wow. Well, do you know who my favorite right now is um Elona Mar. She’s the rugby player and she was on Dancing with the Stars and she’s 6 ft tall. She’s a Award winning, um, she’s just an incredible athlete, but she’s also just her social media is absolutely incredible about, she’s a different body type, you know, she’s got really broad shoulders. A lot of people think she’s a trans man, you know, write horrible comments on all of her stuff. Um, but she’s just such a light and so inspiring to women and to young girls who, you know, and I’m 6 ft tall, so I love, I love seeing not like little petite girly girls, you know, in my feet all the time. So, yeah, she’s someone I really love. And of course, I am still a huge fan of Hillary Clinton, still forever. I do you know that I went as Hillary Clinton for Halloween in 1992? I have loved her forever. So, I still follow her. I love her pithy comments on what’s going on um on Instagram. But, you know, I just am seeing so many. I mean, I watched all of the SNL 50. Uh, all of that coverage, so like Tina Fey, Amy Poehler are obviously amazing. I watched all of the Grammys, so like Dochi and just all of these incredible female performers. Chapel Rone is amazing. Lady Gaga, obviously. Just it’s the, you know, I think it’s the year of the woman. I’ve been seeing just everything I’ve been seeing in pop culture, um, a lot of women coming up into politics, getting really interested in politics now. Um, hopefully a lot more women will be leading nonprofits. I know that. I don’t know the percentage, but it’s incredibly small, especially women of color leading nonprofits. So I’ve, I’ve been seeing some positive signs despite all of the noise that is trying to keep marginalized groups down. I’ve been just seeing a lot of positive signs of resistance. And I’m very excited for the Handmaid’s Tale to come back in April. About Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Yes, so I do like her. I, I follow her videos. She was one of the ones that first started using reels actually. No stories. So she was one of the very first politicians that was using stories. And do you remember she would do Instagram Live where she would just be cooking in her kitchen. I would watch those all the time. It was when she was very first coming onto the scene. She would just do these Instagram lives cooking ramen in her kitchen and like talking about politics of the day. And I thought that was before anyone was doing that. And I thought that was really cool and made her very accessible, and just really interesting. Um, so she’s totally social media savvy, but yeah, she’s a powerful force. And Ayanna Presley, um, senator from Massachusetts, um, she is, she’s one of my absolute favorites. I follow her on social. I love her. So how do all these women influence your own practice? Well, I think being authentic to who you are and shunning the non-believers, you know, Seth Godin always says, shun the non-believers, and not getting so hung up on the people that don’t like you. And now, I am a Canarian. I was, I’m July 9, so I have the strong predilection to have people like me, and I’m a people pleaser. I’m also the oldest daughter. So I have all of these personality traits where I want people to like me. But then when I see what these other women are doing, and they’re standing up and they’re talking and they’re saying their truth, like Ayanna Presley actually has alopecia, and she shaved her head and she’s bald and beautiful and famously just, I mean, she’s stunning, but she’s bald and she just talks about it, and she shares her truth and helps other people. And that’s what I, you know, that’s, that just really inspires me. So, putting your personality into your work, I think is part of the reason why I have been so successful, um, but certainly, of course, not everyone agrees with me or likes me. I’ve gotten some nasty email responses, I’m sure you have too. From time to time, or like a nasty direct message about something. But to me, if people are not responding, it means they’re not paying attention. So, I try to remind myself to be provocative, to be authentic, to be myself, and never, never back down from things that I stand for. So that’s that’s really how they inspire me. Thanks for sharing all that. Sure. What else would you like to talk about? Well, it’s important. I, I like to, you know, too. And I know it’s memorable like I said, I know. I change it up once in a while, but These, the, the things behind me, they really ground me and just really helped me remember who I am and what I stand for, and also the fact that if you’re on a Zoom call with me and you don’t like my background, we’re probably not going to be able to work together, so. All right. What else would you like to talk about? We still have time. Well, you’re gonna go to NTC, right? I’m not able to go this year. OK, yes, I am going. Oh, it’s not. It’s not far from you as well. It’s not. It’s not far. I could probably stop by. I didn’t have any, I didn’t apply to speak, um, but I know you always do a great. Showcase in the exhibit hall, they’re actually it’s it’s nonprofit will be there. I’ll capture 15 or 20s. Yeah, yeah, make sure you let me know if you drop in for a day or something. I know I’m thinking of AFP Icon, which is in Seattle. I don’t know why I thought the nonprofit technology conference was in Seattle, but no, because it’s usually out there, right? Because that’s where they’re. Yeah. OK. Any other conferences you’re excited about this year? Um, yeah, I know, me too. I mean. Yeah, I, I, AFP I, yeah, I applied a bunch of years, you know, I have my theory about why I was never selected, so I don’t, I don’t go to AFP, even though it’s I know it’s huge, but they don’t, you know, being strategic. Yeah, I’ve heard that from a few people that I’m always shocked because like you, they’re really thought leaders in the field and I just don’t, I don’t understand how they pick, but. I, yeah, I’ve been on the NTC committee that’s chosen. Chosen proposals. I did that for a few years, but um, yeah, I don’t know. Icon is is such a. Such a hard nut to crack. You know what I’ve, I think it really does, it parallels what you’re saying about the social networks, and I’ve, I’ve embraced this in my own practice too. Um, I, I, I go where I’m wanted. And, and if, you know, if you’ve turned me down a couple of times. You don’t want me. That’s OK. I’m gonna focus on this is parallel to what you’re saying about the network. I’m gonna focus where people embrace me. They see the value and 10 and their nonprofit technology conference. They routinely welcome me on the what used to be the exhibit floor, like I said, now this year they’re calling it the hub. They routinely, you know, we work out a deal. I amplify their speakers with over 13,000 listens because nobody’s. You know, nobody’s getting 13,000 people coming to their 90 minute session. So I amplify their speakers and they, and they cut me a break and, and I’m, I’m, I’m wanted and, and I feel loved there. So, so routinely year after year I go back to the NTC wherever last year it was in Portland. It’s probably about as far as it could be from me in North Carolina, but I still was happy to go. It was a pleasure to go this year happens to be a little closer. I can drive from North Carolina to Baltimore, but it doesn’t matter. I’ll go year after year. Same thing with clients, same thing with the social networks. Like go where, go where folks embrace you and wanna work with you. That is, I love that. That’s perfect. I completely agree. Um, people always ask me, there’s several conferences, you know, like a nonprofit storytelling conference, but I’ve just never been asked to speak. I’ve never been accepted to speak, and that, and I am fine with it, and it’s just like you said, I don’t lose sleep over places that don’t want me, you know, I focus on where where people want me. It’s almost like really unsubscribes to my email list or people unfollowing me on social media. If I It’s just a, it’s just a signal that’s like, I’m not for you right now, or there’s something going on, or my message is not connecting with you, and that’s completely OK. And I think we do need to get More comfortable in our own skin. We also need a little thicker skin, but we need to say, this is what I stand for, this is who I am, this is my message, and that’s how you’re going to attract the right people to your cause. That’s how you’re going to attract people that want to participate, that want to become part of the movement, rather than we we just focus on numbers and not real quality of connection, a lot of the time. But I completely agree with that. I would only want to be somewhere that would really want me. Let me interject something you said earlier, quality over quantity, right? Real engagement on a couple of networks versus being in 12 different networks and nothing is you’re not gaining traction. No, I, I really do agree and just really, you know, understanding. That your audience wants to hear from you. I think that nonprofits tend to think they are bothering their audience. They don’t send, they send a quarterly email, you know, like 4 emails a year to your donors? No, that’s insane, cause what if they delete one and they don’t hear from you for half a year. So, we always think we’re inundating our donors, our message is boring, or we’re annoying people, but the reality is that, you know, your cause matters and what the work that you do matters, and people want to know about it, especially if they’re giving you money. If they’re not giving you money, they want to hear about it if they’re on your email list, but if they are giving you money, they want to hear what’s going on and they want to hear from you. So we have this imposter syndrome. That is very hard for a lot of people to shake. And I would just encourage any nonprofits listening, you know, communicate more and communicate more authentically, and communicate more strongly than you might be comfortable with. You know, I’ve I’ve received, I’m thinking about Everything going on in the news, like you, you don’t have to, you shouldn’t say something maybe specifically about Trump. I’m not saying you have to do that, but to not comment on the federal funding freeze if it’s affecting your organization, I want to know that as a donor. I wanna know, oh, like, did the USAID shut down? How did that affect Amnesty International, or how did that affect these international organizations? I really want to understand that more. But having, you know, just being so afraid to talk about anything going on in the headlines, that’s not serving your donors. It’s not serving your community and it’s not serving your mission. I have a client that does international relief work and I’m sorry. I said that right to their donors, including their planned donors, and the messages of support that they’re getting back, they’re heartening and heartbreaking at the same time. I mean, you, you, you hear the people’s frustration. And some of them respond with gifts with increased gifts, including, you know, these are folks who have already included the, the, the organization in their long term plan in their will or something else, and now they’re making a cash gift. Uh, I saw one, you know, um, I wanna do an uh a qualified charitable distribution which is an, an IRA transfer for folks who are 70.5 and over, but it’s, it’s immediate cash. It’s not at the person’s death. It, it comes. Immediately now and there and there are others, you know, so yeah, to your point, people do want to hear. They, they love your work, your, your messages are not junk mail and spam to them, and in a lot of cases they will, they will respond even though in with, with gifts, even though you’re not asking for gifts. You’re just informing, but they love your work that much. They hate to see. It hurts them to see that your work is, is, is being impinged on, impinged on, that’s putting it mildly. Your work is being devastated, you know, in, in other parts of the world. They don’t like to see that. And I saw, I saw a great Instagram post, uh, rescue.org. They did a whole series about how to talk to your friends and family about the importance of humanitarian aid. So it was a series of. where they addressed some of the miss and misconceptions. So an example would be, you know, if your dad says to you, well, all foreign aid is just a waste, or, you know, just um, corruption. How do you address that? Or if it says, well, why don’t we just focus on America? How do you address that? So, it was really interesting because I shared it and my stories, I took um photos of it, because it was so helpful. Because obviously people that follow Rescue.org care about humanitarian aid. Um, and so it was a helpful way for us to say, OK, here, we don’t really know how to participate in this conversation. It’s so emotional, it’s so fraught, but here are some talking points that you can use. So that helps your community. It helps your mission, um, but it helps your community advocate for you. And I’ve been seeing a lot of that lately and I love that trend. Julie Campbell, what else do you want to talk about? We still got some time. What else? Um, how much time do we have? 10 minutes or so. Oh, I have a call at 3. Oh, you do. Oh, OK. All right, then let me ask you. I you and I chatted at the top of the hour. Oh, I know we took some time. Um, let me ask you then sky. What do you see? What’s your opinion? Blue sky right now, which I love. It tends to trend toward more social justice, social activism, and left leaning causes right now. Because people are leaving Twitter, but I see it growing and expanding. Content moderation and data privacy are big priorities for that company. I don’t see ads, I don’t see a lot of crap in my, you know, feed. Um, it’s very curated and it’s, uh, I think it’s a much more positive experience right now for me. So I really encourage you, you’re a nonprofit. I think at least to, um, At least to set up your account there. So, save your name, at least bookmark your name, and then, you know, and then like I’d say with everything else, spend time on the platform, see what other people are doing, follow other organizations that make sense, follow consultants you like and writers and influencers, creators that you like, and see what they’re posting. And I, I think it’s, it’s gonna actually grow. I mean, I’m hoping that, I’m hoping that it will grow. I just, it’s not like no other social platform out there in terms of management and what I’m seeing in the feed right now. It’s very like curated and I really like it. Julie Campbell, social media maven. Hey, thank you. My pleasure. You’ll find Julia on LinkedIn. You’ll find her practice at JCsocialmarketing.com. I hope I see you at NTC. Let me know if you’re there. OK, I will let you know. Thank you very much. Thanks for sharing, Julia, savvy advice. Thank you very, very much. Thanks, Tony. Thanks for everything that you do and everything you do for the sector. Thanks. Next week, nonprofit activism in our political environment. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you. Find it at Tony Martignetti.com. We’re sponsored by Donor Box. Outdated donation forms blocking your supporters’ generosity. Donor Box, fast, flexible, and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit, DonorBox.org. I love that alliteration. You didn’t think I was gonna do it this week, did you? Uh, I knew it. That’s why I did it. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I’m your associate producer Kate Martignetti. The show’s social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation, Scotty. Be with us next week for nonprofit Radio, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great.