Tag Archives: Fourth Dimension Technologies

Nonprofit Radio for April 1, 2024: Avoid Technical Debt & Your Technical Roadmap


Jagan Narayanan & Karen Graham: Avoid Technical Debt


Our 24NTC coverage continues, to help you avoid crushing tech debt that would bust your budget and cause you a big headache. Our panel encourages you to manage and maintain your IT infrastructure and software so that costs are managed. They’re Jagan Narayanan, from Fourth Dimension Technologies, and the tech speaker, writer and consultant, Karen Graham.





Kestryl Lowery:  Your Technical Roadmap

Another way to steer clear of a technology budget crisis is to prioritize and plan your investments. Kestryl Lowrey shares the best practices for creating your tech roadmap. He’s with Cloud for Good.


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Hello listeners. It’s Tony. Every week for the past 14 years. I’ve produced a show this week. I’m sorry, I just II I could not pull it together. Uh personal problems, technology problems. Its just, it was just overwhelming. I, I could not, I’m sorry. It’s April Fools. It’s our April Fools show. Welcome to Tony Martignetti nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your Aptly named host and the pod father of your favorite Hebdomadal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d suffer the embarrassment of. So, Mathenia, if you weakened me with the idea that you missed this week’s show, here’s our associate producer, Kate with what’s going on this week? Hey, Tony, it’s a technology management show. First. Avoid technical debt. Our 24 NTC coverage continues to help you avoid crushing tech debt that would bust your budget and cause you a big headache. Our panel encourages you to manage and maintain your it infrastructure and software so that costs are managed. They are Jin Narayanan from fourth dimension technologies and the tech speaker, writer and consultant Karen Graham. Then your technical road map another way to steer clear of a technology budget crisis is to prioritize and plan your investments. Castro Lowry shares the best practices for creating your tech roadmap. He’s with Cloud for good. Antonius. Take two, I’ve been dreaming were sponsored by virtuous. Virtuous, gives you the nonprofit CRM fundraising, volunteer and marketing tools. You need to create more responsive donor experiences and grow giving, virtuous.org here is avoid technical debt. Welcome back to Tony Martignetti nonprofit radio coverage of the 2024 nonprofit technology conference. We’re in Portland, Oregon and we are sponsored by Heller consulting technology strategy and implementation for nonprofits. With me. Now are Jin Narayanan. And Karen Graham Jin is CEO at fourth dimension technologies and Karen is speaker, writer, consultant and coach. Welcome back to both of you. You’ve both been on the show before. It’s good to have both of you back. Jug and Karen. Welcome back. Thanks. Thank you. Pleasure. So you’ve uh you’ve done your session and your topic is avoid technical debt from killing your nonprofit, not, not just not just damaging or injuring, killing, killing, jugging. Why is this uh an important topic? Why do we need this session? Uh It’s basically it’s a more to do with being able to keep up with uh technology and trying to address issues as and when they come up and not let them pile up. Once you let the issue spile up, then it kind of grows to such an extent that it becomes a very difficult task to manage at that point in time. And that’s why we’re talking about being able to kill them because suddenly you find yourself in a situation where you have a huge technology challenge and you probably don’t have the resources both financial, as well as technical to be able to address that. Ok. And it could have been avoided with better management through the, through the years. Absolutely better management in terms of planning and probably spreading it out over a period of time. Ok, Karen, do you want to add something to, to our introduction to the topic? I think, I mean, you asked why, why this topic here, why this conference? I think it’s especially important for nonprofits to think about this because they have so many pressures that, that send them in the direction of accumulating more technical debt, of putting off purchases of under investing in technology because of the way that they’re funded because of the um just all of the different ways that they operate. I think nonprofits are perhaps more susceptible to technical debt than any other kind of organization. Um So some of the things we want, let’s stick with you, Karen. Just reading from your session description, learn, learn the negative impacts of technical debt, I mean, jug and sort of alluded to them. Do you want to go into more detail or maybe tell a story of, of the, the uh the implications of putting off proper investment and management of technology. I’ll use a release. Simple example. And this is, this is kind of an embarrassing example because it’s a way that I am accumulating technical debt myself by keeping a laptop for longer than I would ever advise a client to do. I would usually tell people to plan to replace their computers every 3 to 5 years. I’ve got a laptop that’s six years old and I’m just crossing my fingers that it’s not going to die in the middle of this conference. And then I would be forced to go out and sort of panic, purchase a new machine without shopping for sales without really thoroughly looking at what my options are. And so in that way, I’m probably not making a very smart decision and could end up the impact of that, could be that I would spend more. I wouldn’t get the right kind of computer for, for the next, the next one that I buy. And that’s just like kind of a microcosm of what happens on a much larger scale with a lot of kinds of enterprise technology systems and organizations. Well, I admire you sharing your own personal, uh, I don’t know, shortcoming or oversight. Uh, hypocrite is the word that comes to mind, but at least you’re honest, you’re an honest hypocrite. You’re not, you’re not a concealed. You know, I love Karen. Karen’s been on the show many times. We’ve talked a lot, we email. So I know she doesn’t object to. I feel the same kinds of pressures that a lot of people working in nonprofits do where, you know, I want to make the best use of my funds. I don’t want to overspend. And so sometimes I can be kind of a cheap skate, double, double hypocrite, not, you’re under investing and you’re not, you’re not turning over the technology as it ought to be as it ought to be upgraded. Alright. Um Jin, uh is there a story maybe that you wanna share or, or uh about, you know, proper, let’s let’s go to the other end of the spectrum from Karen now to the to the proper the proper management and, and investment in, in uh technology. Yeah, actually we, we manage it for a lot of organizations and uh as a part of our job, it’s, it’s a part of the job to let them know how they are accumulating debt and what are the risks they carry and what we see sometimes is uh actually quite surprising. Uh we have clients who still use versions of operating system like Windows 2000 just because it works, they use it, they want to use it. They’re not changing it because the change will cost them no longer supported. It’s no longer supported, it’s risky some of the people attending this event. Absolutely. So that’s the risk that they carry risk is whether if they’re using uh uh let’s say unsupported versions of either operating systems or some of the systems that they have, they risk the possibility of security process. So that’s the biggest risk. And uh again, security is like an insurance and the general perception is if it’s not happened to me, I’m safe. So it’s, it’s, it’s a kind of a situation where it hits until it does happen to you. Absolutely. So I think this is where the challenge is. Uh we need to take, that’s why people need to take proactive measures. So when I talk about my own experiences with organizations, this is what we see in a lot of organizations and even then they would want to probably extend it as much as possible because at the end of the day, upgrades also cost money. I think that’s the challenge. But Karen, we, we should look at this as an investment, right? I don’t know why you’re asking me questions because I’ve now completely undermined my own credibility. Well, let me, let me take a moment to rehabilitate because Karen I’ve known Karen for years. She is a very smart, very savvy tech uh tech reviewer, tech consultant, tech person, professional. Uh she used to produce reports about technology. Um and I had her on the show talking about them. So this is all that was uh that was all in fun. Karen. Karen is a very, very savvy and very smart consultant. Karen Graham consulting. I don’t know, her little bio doesn’t say doesn’t say Karen Graham consulting. It just says, speaker, writer, consultant, coach, I’ve made my best after myself consulting. And as I Tony Martignetti, Tony Martignetti nonprofit Radio Martignetti Planned Giving Advisors II, I think that’s, I think that’s the right way to go. You’re because you’re a well known name in technology. So Karen Graham consulting has gravitas and that’s not just a gratuitous rehabilitation, it’s all deserved. So he’s made such terrible fun of you. II I wanna make sure that I go uh make sure I rehabilitate and set the record straight again. That was not a gratuitous rehabilitation. It’s all true. So as a savvy smart tech consultant at Karen Graham consulting, uh we should be viewing this as an investment, right? Not expenditure, not spending, but we’re investing in tech just like we should invest in our people. Yeah, we should. Um and but in order to make a proper investment, you need to, you need to save for that, you need to budget for it and you need to understand how to evaluate return on investment. And I actually think that’s sometimes how these things start to fall apart is that people don’t understand how to really evaluate the ro I they don’t understand how to swayed someone of that. That’s something we talked about in the session a bit. There were a lot of people in the room that were it and operations, people that do understand this already and yet they’re sort of inhibited from implementing really smart technology investments in their organization because their leaders don’t understand the importance of it. Their boards don’t understand the importance of it, their don’t understand the importance of it. And so I think it’s our responsibility as technology leaders to acquire the skills, to be able to really make a strong case for those investments and to do it in the language, to use the kinds of arguments that are relevant to the people that are making those decisions. Well, let’s stay with you. How do we start to budget for this? Let’s take uh websites, for example, almost everyone, almost every nonprofit organization does some kind of website refresh or maybe even a complete overhaul, redesign every 3 to 5 years. And yet few organizations budget for that in the years that they’re not doing it. And so to smooth out that um that cash flow and to be prepared for a major website redesign, a few organizations have a practice of setting aside a little bit of money in a fund that’s dedicated for that as they’re building up to it. Um But many of them just wait until it’s kind of past due and then they’ll maybe go to a funder and say, oh, we need, you know, many tens of thousands of dollars to be able to do this redesign and they just cross their fingers that somebody’s gonna say, yes. What, what about for the jug? And what about for the kinds of technology that we’re, that’s, that’s palpable. Um Kron was talking about her laptop. Uh you know, I’m thinking of servers. I mean, I’m not a tech person but you are uh you know, how do we, how do we budget for what those expenses are going to be? The the laptop upgrades, the server up grades, things like that. How do we know how much to plan for? See? Actually, uh if you are a technology person, normally the road map for technology is laid out by the vendors. You take the large vendors, be it the network vendors like Cisco and Junipers or you take the server vendors like Dell or HP, I mean, all of them have set a road map and I think that road map is available for us as technology. So we know where technology is headed in terms of what so very clearly uh that road, once that road map is available, there is a possibility that you can therefore start seeing that this is when I need a refresh, this is when I need an upgrade and stuff like that. Well, you may not know the exact amounts which are required for these exacts. But Karen said if we put together a plan and start setting aside some money straight away, so at least it doesn’t hit you when in a big time when it actually happens, you start setting aside funds for it over a period of time and then start rolling it out on an annual basis rather than doing it at one shot every, every year, you set aside a certain amount of money for upgrades for, uh let’s say you now you’re using the technical debt for, let’s say, uh managing technical debt and you set aside some money and then you know what comes in at that point in time and start using it for that purpose. And the large providers have a road map, road maps for us that most of them have, most of them, we have some visibility into what’s in store. It’s not that they just throw something at us. I mean, there is obviously an available in terms of, if you go to Microsoft, I’m sure Microsoft will tell you when is the next release planned for their operating system? And they will also tell you when is the support stopping for the earlier version of the operating system? So you certainly have a time plan for you to plan that out and hardware, hardware as well and HP etcetera, and there might be a lot of people listening that are not with an organization that has an it professional on their staff. And so maybe they don’t have somebody that really has the knowledge to keep track of these kinds of things. In that case, they should find somebody like Jan or you know, someone who can advise them, maybe outsource that um who can help them make those plans. Actually, it’s a good idea to have a periodic audit, let’s say, do you do an annual audit to see where you are? And what is it that you need to address that? That’s probably a good way to address it in that sense. Auditing software, hardware. Absolutely. That’s right. Ok. Vendor relationships, backup plans, all of it together do infrastructure. I audit to see where you are and what are the gaps that you have to fill and then plan for it. At least you can plan for it the next year. It’s time for a break. Virtuous is a software company committed to helping nonprofits grow generosity. Virtuous believes that generosity has the power to create profound change in the world and in the heart of the giver, it’s their mission to move the needle on global generosity by helping nonprofits better connect with and inspire their givers. Responsive fundraising puts the donor at the center of fundraising and grows, giving through personalized donor journeys that respond to the needs of each individual. Virtuous is the only responsive nonprofit CRM designed to help you build deeper relationships with every donor at scale. Virtues gives you the nonprofit CRM, fundraising, volunteer marketing and automation tools. You need to create responsive experiences that build trust and grow impact virtuous.org now back to avoid technical debt. Something I’m curious about, I know both of you, but I, I know I’m not the person who introduced you. How did the two of you come together to do this session together. That’s interesting. That’s interesting. Actually, I’m going to locate in only the last few weeks. Ok. Uh We have another gentleman in our organization who’s been talking to her for a long time. Ga ga. That’s right. So Ronga has been driving this and uh that’s how he got set up and we’ve been in this nonprofit technology thing for the last couple of years. So we’ve been working with multiple people and reaching out to a lot of people and Karen was certainly one of the, on our list. She was on top of our list. Outstanding fourth dimension. Of course, you were a sponsor of nonprofit radio and uh you were on our 650th or 6/100 show, 6/100 show. I interviewed you in uh Moynihan Station in New York City, Moynihan Hall. Pardon me, Moynihan Hall in New York City. And then we had a very nice dinner together. So I know I know the both of you. Well, I just regrettably, I’m not the person brought you together, but Ron found Ronga found Karen top of her list, top of his list. Um Let’s talk a little about Ro I let’s stay with you, Juan. Uh and then we’ll Karen, I’ll turn to you to fill in some too about how do we start to estimate RO I because this is something that if, if, if everything is going along fine, then the C suite may just say, well, everything’s going along fine. I don’t, I don’t see any downside to continuing with uh with uh Windows 2000 for instance. Wh wh why, why should, why should we bother, how do, how do we quantify the, the, the value of upgrading to a, to the current uh operating system, for instance? OK. There are multiple ways of doing this. There are multiple ways, one is uh uh very simply is, is there a productivity impact because of the fact that you’re running older systems? I mean, that’s, that’s one way to look at it. And uh when you look at productivity impact, that’s something we can straight away uh add money value to it and do it. The other is a potential risk that you carry. Like when you say security risk, it’s a risk. But to be putting a money value on it, we need to put a model by which you can say, hey, in case we have a security incident, what is the impact that is having on the organization? OK. So these are the two things that, that comes to my mind straight away security wise, we can look at some of the headlines, a ransomware attacks uh on, I mean, sometimes even on nonprofits, we don’t even have to just look at the commercial, the corporate side of hacks, uh like Yahoo is the one that comes to mind, but there have been others since then. But some nonprofits have been attacked. In fact, I’ll send you a very good example of technical debt, which actually had an impact on general users. Uh Some time back, we had an issue at Southwest where I think the systems came down. I think this is about the air this happened, I think about 34 years back. And I think the one of the reasons was that some of the systems were not upgraded in time. Ok. So having said that, I mean, I’m saying even for large organizations, it happens because we tend to ignore it in a lot of ways, right? So having said that from an ro I look at the impact and uh so if you look at it as an impact, somebody has to put together and say in case this happens, what are the costs and therefore it’s better to invest now and prevent an incident happening sometime down the line. And then also, as you mentioned, productivity, productivity is a very simple, simple model. Yeah, we’re working, right mccarron, we’re, you know, suppose let’s take this windows 2000 example. I mean, we’re, you know, aside from the security risks of using an operating system that still hasn’t been supported for, I don’t know how many years or decades or a decade or so, but just, you know, like the work arounds, like if you wanna integrate calendly, let’s say, or something, you know, to your email or you know, to, to to use something modern with something that’s 24 years old. Um, that’s enormously unproductive. Right. Well, and just to put some numbers to this and I hope I’m not the technical side to it. I hope I’m not doing the math rather spontaneously here. But I was just thinking, like, let’s say you have 10 minutes a day that your old computer, your old operating system, your workarounds are slowing you down by 10 minutes a day. And then if you multiply that out, say by like 40 40 hours a week and 50 days or 50 weeks a year with some vacation, things like that, say, you have somebody that’s being paid $50 an hour. If you take the value of their time, I think that’s $2000 a year, right? One employee. Right. So, I mean, for $2000 would you want to upgrade their operating system? It seems like that would be a pretty clear two $1000 of ongoing costs each year. And then on top of that, the risk of the security risk, we haven’t quantified that right now by, by making the investment of time and money into upgrading the operating system, you’re not really gonna save $2000 you’re still gonna be paying that employee, right? You’re not going to be paying them for 10 fewer minutes every day, but they 10 more minutes that they could be using to do something that is advancing your mission that is raising more money for your organization that is increasing your reach. You know, there’s, there’s all kinds of things they could be doing. So it’s really more of an opportunity cost in reality. But if we wanna put numbers to it and be able to use that to compare ro i of different options, then that’s a, that’s a way that you can do it. Ok? Um uh I’m just reading from your session description um best practices for managing and maintaining it, infrastructure and software systems. Have we, have we covered that? Have we covered that? We talk about it? We did talk about managing and maintaining. That’s right. One of the things that came across during our session itself was uh one was the periodic audit itself which kind of gives you an idea of where you are and where you want to be. Uh The other was I think one of the participants that brought this out was to put together a plan. I mean, while he spoke about a five year plan, I mean, my personal view was in technology, five years is a long time. It’s a very long time. I think about where we were five years ago and how many things didn’t even exist yet. So, but to put together at least a plan saying, hey, this is my technology plan over the next few years and then start implementing it in phases so that you spread out your cost over a period of time. So these are primarily this one is an audit to see where you are because we are so much into the issue that you become part of the problem and not a part of the solution, right? So it’s one way is to step back and get somebody to do an audit and look at it and give you a feedback. The other is to spread out, put together a plan for the, for the next few years. I would, I would rather say three years and spread out your cost over a period of time rather than have them stuck. I mean, thrown at you at one time, these are the two things which came across at that point, I would say with technology planning because things change so much and it’s nearly impossible for that reason to make anything more than even a one year plan, I would say in the environment that we’re in right now, it’s equally important to have a technology strategy. And to me that means priorities, for example, in security, there is often a trade off or friction between higher security and higher convenience for the end users. And so to have sort of a philosophy like when those two things are in conflict, we’re going to lean in one direction or the other or if it’s a matter of investing more money versus um I, I’m trying to think of what the tradeoffs might be here. There’s, there’s all kinds of dichotomies where you can say our philosophy, our approach is going to be that we’re going to lean in this direction and those kinds of things can guide the decisions that you don’t even anticipate. You’re going to have to make a year from now when some new technology arises or when something changes in your environment or your organization and talking about security, there is no limit to the level of paranoia that you can have. It’s clear which side you would, you would. Karen said one way or the other, it’s clear which way you would. It’s a question is where do you want to draw the line and say, hey, I’m willing to live with a certain set of risks and you need to be sure that you’re not taking the one, you can’t be one extreme or the other. If you’re pursuing perfect security, I mean, you’re just going to drive yourself crazy. It’s impossible. You have quadruple factor authentication because they spend half their day logging on. So you have to decide what’s good enough and it’s probably not what you’re doing right now, but there is something that’s probably good enough. Another thing that I was thinking about when you were talking about return on investment is user adoption and training. And, um, and I often see really great technology investment sort of go to waste because people don’t take advantage of them. It’s like the treadmill that I have in the basement right now, which is collecting dust. You know, that’s not gonna help me get more fit. You don’t have to tell your own personal story about the treadmill now too. But, but, but, um, it sounds like there’s, you’ve seen some evidence of that or you’ve seen cases. I most often see that in CRM, um, databases and, you know, other kinds of software applications, but mostly CRM buying something much more robust than needed or even buying the exact thing that’s needed. But then if staff don’t fully utilize it, if they’re not well trained on it, then you’re just leaving a lot on the table. We had a session yesterday. I spoke to some folks actually from Heller consulting about leaning more on your existing tech stack before you go to an outside shiny object that does just one discrete thing. It may be very well buried in your Microsoft 360 subscription or your Google subscription like and they, they were using uh calendar, calendaring as an example, like polling calendar polls that exist in Microsoft 360 also in Google um beyond oh white boards, white boards that’s buried in Microsoft 360. A lot of people don’t know that. So using that also to your point, Karen, knowing what you’re paying for and utilizing it fully. I always tell people don’t be so scared to click on things. You’re not going to break anything, you know, just like go through the whole menu and just click on every single thing and see what it does and you’ll probably find all sorts of things that can improve your productivity and avoid extra expenses because you have already something that will solve the problem. Video video conferencing was another um and, and and transcribing video conferencing. So this stuff is all buried in Google and Microsoft. You may very well be paying for it. Alright, that was another that was a session yesterday uh utilizing your existing tech stack before you go outside. Um Alright, well, so you spoke to folks for an hour yesterday and uh we’ve only been talking a little over 20 minutes, so don’t hold back on nonprofit radio listeners or otherwise I I can’t have either of you back. So if I know you’re giving short shrift to our listeners, so don’t do that. So what else did you talk about yesterday? That uh we haven’t, we haven’t talked about today or, or go deeper in something maybe that we’ve covered but not sufficiently. Actually, we had a lot of uh participation from the audience and a lot of them are willing to share what they had done in their organizations. And uh if you look at some of the um uh what should I say, takeaways that happened? Uh It is more, more from uh participants sharing their views as much as what we were talking about. And this five year plan, in fact, one of them came up and said, hey, we do a five year plan which I think was very impressive uh when everybody heard about it, but maybe, uh maybe not, maybe ill advised. It sounds like like 1 to 2 years is more, having a rigid five year plan is probably ill advised, but having a flexible five year plan. That sounds fantastic. More importantly, having a plan. Ok. What else, what else from the audience? Questions or things folks said privately, what else came from the audience? Anything that you remember that you can? It’s funny being in the moment I was just listening to everybody and now I’m trying to remember exactly what was the most juicy stuff that came out of that. But I will say that it felt a bit cathartic for people to just have a grape session together and compare notes. You know how that is when you experience things and in isolation, maybe you are the only it person in your organization. But I think that was true for a lot of those people. They’re not part of a big department, they’re in a relatively small organization. And so they, they might not even be an it professional, maybe they’re the operations person. And that’s one of five different areas of responsibility that they have and the chance to connect with other people and understand that like other people also experience this and, and they have figured out ways to overcome technical debt or, or at least to move in that direction that seem to feel good for people and a few individuals commented to me about that afterward. Another thing comes to my mind, Karen is uh I think there was some thought in terms of how do we present all of them are mostly it professionals and if they need to present it to their boards or to their uh CXO how do we present technology challenges in a manner which the senior management understands? I think there was a, there was a need, there was a need to see, I mean, we are aware that this is something we need to be presenting it differently from what we probably do because normally we tend to talk technology language. So we probably need to talk the business language for the senior management to understand the impacts of what we do. And therefore, Karen, you alluded to that earlier talking about using the right language. Do you have advice about converting tech language to language? Yeah. Um Think about the audience and what they care about, right? So you’re going to present probably a different message to your CEO or executive director than you would to your CFO or to your board. Um Boards care about risk management. They care about big picture strategy and how is this going to help our organization be successful in the long term? I think CEO S and executive directors care about the same kinds of things, but they’re also more operationally oriented than a board of directors would be. And um but they also above all, probably care about the mission. And so that’s something we talked about is as soon as you can connect a technology investment to serving people better um providing better quality of service or better reach or quicker response times or things like that to, you know, whoever your constituents are, then that starts to get people’s attention more than talking about. You know, this license is going to expire. This product is no longer going to be supported and there’s security patches that won’t be happening anymore. La la la people kind of tune out when you start talking like that. But if they can translate to what this means is that our food shelf might not be able to continue providing services, we might have a disruption, then it becomes very real. All right, perfect. How about we leave it there? That sounds like good motivation and, and advice. All right, she’s Karen Graham, speaker, writer, consultant, coach at I’m gonna add at Karen Graham consulting and uh with her is Jin Narayanan Ceo at fourth dimension technologies. All about avoiding technical debt from killing your nonprofit, Jin Karen. Thank you very much. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you, Johnny. Good to see both of you. Thank you. Thank you and thank you for being with Tony Martignetti nonprofit radio coverage of the 2024 nonprofit technology conference where we are sponsored by Heller consulting, technology strategy and implementation for nonprofits. Thanks for being with us. Its time for Tonys take to thanks Kate. I had a dream recently. Uh it was a fundraising dream. Um I was hosting a Jerry Lewis Labor Day Telethon. Now, if, if you’re not 50 or older, you may not know what that even means. But the actor Jerry Lewis used to hold, used to host Labor Day Telethons over the Labor Day weekend to raise money for the muscular dystrophy association. MD A. So uh but in the dream, I was the host. So Jerry Lewis that hack. He’s out. Second rate comic. He’s out, I’m the host and we are raising money, not for muscular dystrophy, but we’re raising money for a philharmonic in the dream. And I ask the executive director of the Philharmonic, what is the all in cost of a production night? So all the rehearsal, backstage, front of house performers, everything. What, what’s, what’s the total cost? And he says $300,000 and right away, a donor comes to us and I don’t remember whether it was online or actually phones were ringing. That’s the way it used to be done in the, in the Jerry Lewis Labor Day Days, the phones would be ringing, but whatever a donor comes to us and he pledges $3 million which is enough for 10 performances. So we acknowledge that transformative gift and we shut down the shut down the fundraiser. It’s over. We’re done because this is, it’s an amazing gift. But the funny thing is that the donor had the voice of the actor Paul Benedict. Now he’s not a very well known actor but in, in a movie that I love, remember this is my dream. So I, I’m entitled to put anybody in who I want. Um in the movie I love, which is Waiting for Guffman. It’s a Christopher guest film, Paul Benedict plays kind of a savior character in that movie waiting for Guffman. So it makes sense that, that he would be the sort of savior for the, for the fundraising telethon that we were doing. All right. Uh So then, so then after the dream, then I got up and I went to the bathroom. But so what’s the takeaway? Uh you know, after the bathroom you gotta think about, well, why am I having this dream? All right. So the takeaway I think is there’s the bona fide for fundraising, share your real need with your donors, don’t, you know, don’t pretend that you can get away with less than you really need. I asked the executive director, what’s the full cost of a performance? And, and he shared it. So I think you should share your full needs and then when you’re budgeting and planning plan for full needs, not sort of get by type deeds, I think if you share your full need with your donors, they’re gonna be very much more likely to step up and fund you just like Paul Benedict did in my dream. That is Tony’s take two. OK. That was such a vivid dream. I feel like when most people remember their dreams, they’re like, oh, I was just falling in the middle of nowhere. You had like faces and voices. Well, I have those too but I, I made some notes uh right after this dream. So I was able to help that helped me remember it. Well, we’ve got Buku but loads more time. Here is your technical roadmap. Welcome back to Tony Martignetti nonprofit radio coverage of 24 NTC, the 2024 nonprofit technology conference. We are still in Portland, Oregon at the Oregon Convention Center and this conversation kicks off our day three coverage of the conference. Maybe you can hear that in my voice. Uh Just a little bit were sponsored at 24 NTC by Heller consulting technology strategy and implementation for non profits. I am now with Castrol Lowry. He is managing director for technical services at Cloud for good Krol. Welcome to nonprofit radio. Thanks for having me here. Absolutely pleasure. Thanks for being with us early in the morning. Uh your session, you’ve done your session already. I assume it’s this afternoon. 115, you’re one of the last ones. Ok, this afternoon. So a little preparation for you. It’s oh, the places we’ll go building a technical road map. Alright. So I’m gonna start with the, you know, just the basic uh why did, why did you feel we need this session? What are nonprofits? Uh what uh not quite, not quite getting right about uh their technical planning. Um I think that a lot of nonprofits end up in a very reactive place when it comes to their technology that instead of being able to really think ahead, you know, where are we going to be in three years and five years? And what tools do we need to support that? It becomes a, oh, we’ve been prioritizing, you know, our outcomes and our mission driven delivery and technology becomes kind of an afterthought. And I think that there can be a lot of impact by thinking ahead and saying what tools are out there. What could we be doing differently? How could that increase our impact instead of having it come from a reactive place um and maybe even avoiding a crisis. So I’m just drawing from your, your session description, uh how to prioritize tech investments based on the growth and maturity of your organization. Um How do we like, you know, how do we forecast what our needs are gonna be? And you even talk about our growth and maturity, help us to look ahead, how do we do that? So a big part of it first is to both, look at, look at where you are and what you’re using. Um and think realistically about what you have the capacity to absorb there. I think one thing that a lot of nonprofits end up doing is, you know, there, there can be some great free tools out there, both of enterprise level tools that will give free licensing for nonprofits or also things that are deeply discounted. And so someone might adopt a tool that is frankly bigger than what they need. You know, I say with the free license, sometimes it’s free like puppies, like somebody two days ago said free like kittens, same thing just because you have the tool doesn’t mean necessarily that it’s the right fit for your use case or that you have the team to support it. So then you can end up with some pretty tremendous technical debt. You’ve got all your data into this thing or you’ve built all this automation and you’re not able to manage it well. So some of that technical road mapping is thinking through like what’s the right fit size for your organization and not just what do you need to implement it, but what do you need to be successful with it? Long term? But how do you figure that out? What factors, what variables are we looking at to determine that what’s right for us? So things to look at for figuring that out. Of course, first of all, looking to your peers, you know, looking to other organizations with a similar size or that do um comparable work in other industries, even essentially for what you’re doing. Um conferences like NTC can be a great place to kind of start seeing what’s out there and what your options are. Um looking at what the, what the tool is best at, which is hard sometimes when you’re talking to sales people, you know, because every sales person is going to tell you it’s the best thing for anything you would want to do. But trying to actually get some references from them of how are other people using this tool and then really taking a step back and not, not saying, oh well, gee this this thing, you know, this marketing tool looks awesome. It can do all of this stuff. Look at how you’re doing marketing right now. If you’re sending a scheduled email on a weekly basis, that’s a newsletter and you don’t have um journeys or drip automation. If you don’t have responsive campaigns, then those might be things to look at bringing in, but you probably don’t need the broadest feature set just to start with. So think about whether or not you’re going to be able to support that. Um and something like that like an email journey that may even be in your existing stack already, your email provider may already have that for you. Exactly. Like when you’re building your road map, it doesn’t necessarily mean tool change. It can mean staying on the same thing that you’re using and using it better um I think the first with any technical change really, you start from features and capabilities that you need, like you start from, what does your organization actually need to do? And that’s what should be driving any of the conversations that you’re having and decisions that you’re making for the technology. What you need to do might be about your marketing, might be about your fundraising, might be about security and compliance, but you should start with what do we actually need it to do and then find the tools to suit that instead of starting with? This looks like a really cool tool. Let’s find a way to use it. Ok. Yeah, very smart. Um And you know, it seems common sense but very worth saying because a lot of times I think the shiny, right, the shiny object gets our attention. Plus other people, my friends are using it, I just saw and the interface is so simple. It was so easy for me. I was able to just turn it on and now I have this thing and I can send out text messages. Ok. Well, have you thought about how you’re going to use text messages for your organization? Are they actually going to move you forward? Have you thought about compliance for that? Can people opt out? Like anytime you bring in the new shiny object, you’re actually opening a whole can of worms of other things to think about that. Who should we be getting input from uh who should be at the table, making these decisions. Well, not, not tech implementation decisions but thinking through, you know, what do we need, what are our needs? Who, who should we be getting this uh input from? So I think that any of these changes really, it’s, it’s a whole organization conversation. Like you want to get input from staff that are going to be using the tool you want to, you don’t want it to just be coming, you know, from it. You don’t want it to just be your executive. That said, look, I went to a conference and saw this cool thing, we’re implementing it like you need, you need to actually think about what, what is our organization doing? What supports our processes better? What is our vision for how we’re going, where we’re going to be and what we’re going to be delivering in two or three years. Um I can speak from my own experience, one nonprofit that I used to work directly at um where we were a legal advocacy organization. Um And we were expecting a specific Supreme Court decision to come, you know, within the next year and it was going to be a tremendous spike in our case volume. And so what we were looking at was what tooling do we need to be able to scale up to? You know, I think in the days after the decision that we were concerned about we went from typically having about 10 to 30 inquiries a day to over 1000 inquiries in one day. It was tremendous. And so part of my role as the it director there as we were planning for that was to look at what do we need to accelerate response times for our paralegals? What can we set up for knowledge management so that more people can help faster? Um What did our existing database have that could do that? And what did we need to bring in to support that? So to get to that decision, I was then taking and talking both to our paralegals to our lawyers that would be taking the kind of the equivalent to tier two or tier three cases to do it, talking to our different legal compliance people of OK, if we have this high volume and what do we have to then retain later for it to make sure that we’re doing everything to cover our requirements there? Um What sort of scalability considerations am I not thinking about talking to other it partners with that? So I could really get the full picture on it. It turned out in that case that the system we had and we were working on sales force at that point, was able to scale to what we need. But we did end up implementing a few other pieces of the platform in order to support that fast responsiveness. So in some ways, it’s really, you’ve got to both look at what’s coming, talk to the people who are actually going to be using the tools that are implemented. Look at what you have whether or not you can expand what you have, if that works in the time frame you do or if that’s not going to work, then what other tools are out there that you can bring in and support what you need to be doing? That’s incredible scale. Sounds like overnight when the, when the decision was released, you know, and there was a Supreme Court decision, Supreme court decision related to gay marriage. So that was a significant one. Um And we had not just, you know, the like technical planning there, but there was additional planning even of like document access for our uh our C suite because they were often traveling all over. And so what was the planning to make sure that, you know, our director of Legal could read the decision as soon as it came out when we knew she might be on an airplane. So how do we make sure that that document availability was going to be there? Um So which I suppose points to that your, your technical road map and your technical planning should factor in not just the day to day tools, but what do you have for handling specific moments of surprise or crisis communication? Yeah, that’s a good story. Thank you. Incredible scale. Um You’ve got some Uh Well, I guess we’re starting to get into them best practices for creating this tech road map. So I’m gonna let you take over through some in preparation for your session this afternoon. Thank you. Yeah. So best practice. First of all, is that your technical roadmap approach? It like a project like approach, working on that road map, not as something that you’re doing just off the side of your desk, but that you devote resources and time to actually making it happen. Um I’ve seen too many organizations that kind of say, you know, what things are on fire. We need to start changing things now. And if you jump in too quickly, then you might end up not really having any direction of where you’re going, you know, and so you can spend a significant budget and significant time and not have the progress you’d want to show for it because you might end up working against yourself. You might implement one thing and then realize a year later. Oh, wait, this doesn’t really go where we needed to and change course. So first best practice actually take it as a project. It is a good phase zero to start about. Um Next thing I would say is make sure that you have a good diversity of people in the room. It shouldn’t just be, it, it shouldn’t just be executives, it shouldn’t just be line staff, you should have a variety of voices across the organization, you should probably bring in another point of view outside your organization to talk to you. Whether that’s through, you know, other nonprofits that you partner with that might have done similar things before. Whether that’s bringing in a consulting partner to work with you other people to help, push a little on your ideas and think through like, is this where you want to be here are the things that you’re not thinking about. Here’s what I’ve seen at other organizations. That’s some of what I end up doing a lot as a technical architect is help, help people think about the bigger picture. The outside perspective is valuable, help benchmark. You’ve seen other cases. Yeah. Um I’d say the next one is really avoiding a lift and shift mentality. So a lot of times I’ll see nonprofits that mostly will say like, OK, well, we’ve been using this database for 10 years, maybe it’s time for us to move to something more modern and then they roadmap out essentially rebuilding the same system that they had on whatever the new tool is. Um Without anyone stopping to think about like, oh gee is that process, is that way that we do things the way we do it because the tool made us do it that way or because it’s the most efficient way to work. Um One story I like to tell for this actually that uh so when I, when I was a kid, I would always watch and help out when my mom was making a roast and I noticed that she would always cut off the ends of the roast on either end of it and make the roast. Um, and so that was then how I learned to make a roast leg and I assumed it must have been that there’s something wrong with the meat on either end of a roast or something, you know, it’ll better something. Yeah, that’s what I figured. Um, and then, then a couple of years ago I was cooking with a friend and she noticed me doing this and she said that that’s perfectly good meat. Why are you cutting that off? And I said, oh, well, this is, this is how my mom taught me. It’s just, it’s what I always saw growing up. She was like, hm, that’s weird. You should ask about that. Um, and so I asked my mom and her response was, oh, well, when you were a kid, we had a really small oven and the pan that I had, wouldn’t fit something larger. So I had to cut the ends off so things would fit in. And so, you know, it’s the same thing there of just that lift and shift of, I took the process that I saw and moved it forward without understanding the context of it. And we see that sometimes with nonprofits also of that because, because processes get adapted to fit whatever your current situation is because sometimes you have a level of turnover. That means the people who are doing the process now don’t understand why it came to be that way and just know like, oh, well, I have to tick these three boxes in the system and then fill in this field here and enter this data and I don’t really know why we do it that way, but it’s what we do. And so this next system needs to support ticking those three boxes and filling in that piece of information. So I think you can’t do your technical roadmap without also really doing kind of your business capabilities, roadmap and your business processes. And they go hand in hand to make sure that you’re actually helping your organization mature and move forward instead of just maintain current state. That’s a touching little story about your mom and the roasts you be watching as a child. Um Plus I know baking you have baking in your uh bio that you love to bake. So did your mom influence your baking too? Um I mean, probably a lot of the things I know how to cook came from her, you know, but uh at least with that there aren’t anywhere. It was like, oh well, you don’t put in the baking soda or something. It’s a sweet story. Um I mean, other best practices, um other best practices I’d say is to not be, not be trying to make your technical roadmap, an indefinite plan, I’d say always work towards deciding what your time horizon is that you’re trying to plan within, I think 3 to 5 years is normally a pretty good range. Um, because if you’re trying to make something that’s going to last forever, first of all, it’s going to be really intimidating. Second of all, you’re going to close yourself off to what innovation might come in a few years and say, well, we have this plan that has us extended 10 years out. We need to stick to that and then you miss out on innovations, like what we’re seeing with A I, for instance, three years ago, five years ago, we didn’t probably expect to be where we are now. Um Plus your forecast just becomes less reliable beyond five years. Exactly. And also like it can, it can help then be a good frame of reference for what investment makes sense for your organization. Um When you think about the total cost of ownership of things that you’re going to bring in and also how viable are things that are maybe the solution that you’re choosing because it’s, it’s good enough for right now. You know, like, yes, I know it’s not the best to have double entry into the finance system and the donor database and it would be a lot more efficient for people. It would be less annoying for our team members to have an automated integration. But gee this is what the automated integration is going to cost and we only expect this system to be in play for the next two years. Is it worth it then? So that sort of thing can help you really think through where to put your investment based on how long you expect a tool to stick around. There was a panel yesterday that said uh two folks, you know, beyond year three, you need to build a lot of flexibility into your tech plan because we don’t know to your point what the technology is gonna be artificial intelligence as an example. And we’re not even, you know, we’re not even certain what direction the organization, I mean, not that you surrender your mission or your core values. But, but you know, there might be programs in four years that we’re not anticipating today. So, so beyond like from the 3 to 5 year point, you need to have a good degree of flexibility exactly. Like probably one of the last things in like your road map is going to be your next road map project to then start planning where you’re going next. You know, because both like and with that, like once you make a road map, it should not be locked in stone, you should maintain some plan for flexibility and innovation. There, you have to be able to be responsive. Um But also it’s really good to be able to finish a road map and say, OK, we did what we planned to, we got where we were planning to here. Now, let’s go on to the next one. I think that some organizations get to a point of change, fatigue if they essentially are just constantly updating the same plan instead of being able to step back and say, yeah, we got something done. Now, where are we going next? Do you have any other best practices to share? I know your session is just 30 minutes, right? I I’m not trying to embarrass you or anything but, but if you have more best practices, uh we’d love to hear them. I think the other, the other best practice is to um how to phrase this, not be afraid of picking up what’s happening in other industries that are not nonprofits and using those technical benefits frankly towards nonprofit use cases. There’s a lot of powerful tools out there that don’t necessarily frame themselves as being for nonprofit and there can be a lot of advantage in looking at, you know, something you’re experiencing with. I don’t know your say your supermarket loyalty program or something and figuring out like, how are they doing that? What could we do to better engage our donors with it? Um How could we for our museum membership? What about this would actually be more engaging, like being open to looking more broadly because that’s where some of the really transformative change can come in for your technical road map is not narrowing your scope to just what’s been done before. Ok. What else, what else are you going to talk about? Um, so you can share with our listeners. Yeah. So other than that, what I’ll be talking a bit about is making sure that you do in that road map, use it as an opportunity to improve things like your security and compliance posture. So that’s something that we’re seeing more and more of, um with, for instance, data regulations coming up. You know, California has their data rules that in, in the presentation, I have a list of something like 20 different states and localities that are bringing in new data regulations in 2024. Increasingly, you’re going to see a lot more that you have to be doing from a compliance perspective. If you’re managing anything that could be considered, excuse me, personally, personally, identifiable information. And so any technical road map, you’d rather be looking at that head on instead of having to kind of retroactively look at your systems and say, oh, wait, what do we need to do to actually align with being able to let someone manage their preferences, being able to delete someone’s data when they ask for it, being able to send it all over to them. Um I think that also during these road mapping times is a really great time to think about how you’re handling identity and authentication, making sure that your user management is secure. Um because that’s part of then what you can either if you don’t have it in place yet, it’s a great first place for organizations to start and then it’s something that should just be table stakes for any new tool that you’re bringing into the system. Like, can you bring in single sign on? Does it have multi factor authentication? How is it going to be managing your data? Um, so, yeah, compliance and security. Right. Right. So these are things that, you know, um, especially if you’re dealing with the personally, personally, personally identifiable individual information, is that personally identifiable information? Only two, I’s not three. Ok. Personally identify identifiable information, but that one hasn’t caught on keep trying. Don’t give up, don’t give up on your, on your, uh, on your key word. Um, so if you’re, you know, if you’re dealing with those, something like that, that, that’s just something that you’re looking to be a part of whatever, whatever system app you, you’re looking to bring in. Yeah, definitely. Um, and then I guess the other, the other thing I would highlight is when you’re, you’re planning out your road map to not just be thinking about tools but also to be thinking about staffing for it. So it’s great to bring in a new tool, but you also got to think about the care and feeding of it who in your organization already could handle it. Um, but also, you know, every nonprofit people are wearing seven different hats. Um, I think that particularly at a conference like NTC, at every other conversation you have, are people saying, oh, I didn’t start in technology. I ended up here because we got this tool for marketing and I really liked it. We got this new CRM. And so the accidental techie. Exactly. You know, and so either figuring out like, do you have that person in your organization already that wants to take up whatever the next steps of this road map are or specific pieces of it, or is that something that you need to hire in? Do you need to build that into head count for your organization? Is it something where sure you have someone who can administer it but you need to bring a partner in and to implement it, you know, and figuring out actually what the human side is going to be of that technical road map. Ok. Yeah, that’s all valuable. Yeah, I’m not sure if people think about the staffing, you know, they’re thinking, as you’ve said, they’re thinking about the, how, how, how, uh, wonderful this, this new app is gonna be but is there somebody who can support it? Maintain it? The care and feeding, as you said, as you said, anything else that, uh, we want to talk about? I don’t want, I don’t want to hold out on, uh, nonprofit radio listeners. Ok. All right. Good luck in your session. Half hour. Why don’t you leave us with a little motivation for the uh for the technical road map, motivation for the technical road on a high point with your technical roadmap. But it’s really an opportunity to take a good look at where you are and where you want to be and then plot out the steps that it’s going to be to get there. It can be a really exciting journey and can also mean that you are much better prepared to weather any of the bumps along the way. Outstanding. Thank you, Castro Lowy managing director for technical services at Cloud for good. I think Cloud for good is lucky to have you. Thank you for having me on the radio. My pleasure. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for sharing with our listeners and thank you for being with Tony Martignetti nonprofit radio coverage of the 24 2024 nonprofit technology conference where we are sponsored by Heller consulting technology strategy and implementation for nonprofits. Next week, the generational divide. No, that’s another April fool’s joke. Next week will be email, deliverability and email. Welcome journeys. If you missed any part of this weeks show, I do beseech you find it at Tony martignetti.com. We’re sponsored by Virtuous. Virtuous, gives you the nonprofit CRM fundraising volunteer and marketing tools. You need to create more responsive donor experiences and grow, giving, virtuous.org. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I’m your associate producer, Kate Marinetti. The show, social media is by Susan Chavez, Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation Scotty. You’re with us next week for nonprofit radio, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great. Ok. I wanna try something. I wanna try a second take on, uh, the generational divide next week.

Nonprofit Radio for July 18, 2022: 600th Show!


Claire Meyerhoff, Scott Stein, Amy Sample Ward, Gene Takagi, Peter Panepento, & Jagannathan Narayanan: 600th Show!

For this auspicious occasion, we have august personages. My co-host is Claire Meyerhoff. We’ve got live music from Scott Stein. Our contributors, Amy Sample Ward and Gene Takagi are here. Our sponsors, Turn Two Communications and Fourth Dimension Technologies will be dropping in. And we’ll surprise a bunch of folks, The Delightful Dozen. It’s fun and music and celebration. And gratitude.


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Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
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[00:00:10.14] spk_0:
Yeah, hello and welcome to tony-martignetti

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non profit

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radio big

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non profit

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ideas for the

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Other 95

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the aptly named host

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your favorite abdominal

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podcast, you

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hear the live

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music that can

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only mean one

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It’s our 600th show and 12th Jubilee

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you have a listener of the week Tricia Madrid baker when someone posted on an N 10 discussion, what’s your favorite non profit podcast Tricia was quick on the keyboard and posted the first answer. tony-martignetti non profit

[00:00:52.46] spk_3:

[00:01:14.34] spk_1:
and her post got the most likes of any of those second rate suggestions that came after. Uh not that it’s a competition but non profit radio did get the most likes, I have to say. And by the way, for those two past guests who stabbed us in the back by naming second rate podcasts, uh you’re banished, you’ll not be back

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Tricia Madrid baker from a plastic anemia and Mds International Foundation. Thank you. Tricia for loving non profit radio as your favorite podcast for nonprofits, congratulations you are our listener of the week On the 600th show

[00:01:35.34] spk_4:
And also everybody’s answers in the N- 10 forums are all wonderful and appreciated. Tony is being hyperbolic, just making sure people know

[00:01:44.76] spk_0:
that I

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should hope they realize that after, after a couple of beats after a couple of beats So for this 600 show or specific occasion we have August personages my Co host is claire Meyerhoff we’ve got live music from scott stein our contributors, Amy sample Ward, who you just heard defending all the second rate podcasts and Gene Takagi are here, our sponsors turn to communications and fourth dimension technologies will be dropping in and we’ll be surprising a bunch of folks, it’s fun, it’s music, it’s celebration and gratitude. So on Tony’s take two, I’m gonna be saying thank you.

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We are sponsored by turn to communications. Pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot co visit them at turn hyphen T W O dot C O. We’re also sponsored by fourth dimension technologies I T infra in a box. The affordable tech solution for nonprofits visit tony dot M a slash four D. Just like three D. But they go one dimension deeper.

[00:02:58.84] spk_1:
Oh that mellifluous voice. It can only be Claire Meyerhoff. Welcome Claire Meyerhoff.

[00:03:04.24] spk_3:
Hi tony I love doing your spots. I really do because I used to do spots back in the day when I worked in radio and I don’t do them anymore. So when I get one in front of me, I’m just like, oh I get to read a commercial,

[00:03:22.04] spk_1:
I’m very glad I’m glad you’re with us. She is of course non profit radio as creative Producer, declares the president of the planned giving agency request marketing and philanthropy. Communications and the company is at PG agency dot com. So glad to have you. Creative producer. Thanks,

[00:03:43.44] spk_3:
Thank you Tony, I can’t believe this is your 600th show you are the most prolific and amazing podcaster in the history of podcasts. AmY’s writing that down, she’s gonna put that

[00:03:47.71] spk_1:

[00:04:20.44] spk_3:
true, my world is radio Right, so, so after radio people started doing podcast. So I’ve been paying attention to podcasts over the years, like I read articles about it and stuff and I see how people try to do podcasts and they fail because they get a committee or something like that and they just can’t even do one podcast And you have done 600, you have done two a week For once a week, I’m sorry, once a week, four Every week of the year 50 a year to offer vacation times 12, 600. It’s, it’s actually mind blowing. It blows my mind. I’m no good at math, but I can do this math. And that math adds up to podcast success.

[00:04:29.09] spk_1:
Thank you. Claire R&R 13,000 plus listeners each week. So thank

[00:04:33.65] spk_3:
you. It’s amazing.

[00:04:44.34] spk_1:
It feels terrific. I have to do one a week. Otherwise I’d be undisciplined. We’d be at like show, I don’t know, 226 or something after 12 years, but one a week, it keeps me disciplined. Let’s bring in Scott Stein Scott Welcome. Glad to have you.

[00:04:53.79] spk_5:
Thank you. Great to be here.

[00:05:13.94] spk_1:
Always a pleasure to have you on the, on the milestone show scott is the composer of our theme song, cheap red wine, which we’ll be hearing later. He’s a Brooklyn, new york based pianist, songwriter, arranger, conductor and music director. He’s got a new album coming out imminently. He’s got a new baby that just happened very recently. And you can find all this at scott stein music dot com scott. So glad to have you.

[00:05:33.24] spk_5:
Oh well, always glad to be here. It it feels like the milestone. It’s like it’s a certain type of summer. It’s a certain time of the summer. It’s like, all right, it’s time to do tony show again. Look forward to it every year.

[00:05:34.66] spk_1:
Every july. Thank you. So, tell us about the new baby. I thought I thought the new album was big news until I learned about the new

[00:05:41.29] spk_5:
baby album

[00:05:42.63] spk_1:
is like, uh, you know, the music is important to tell us about the new baby.

[00:06:21.64] spk_5:
Yeah, I won’t try to compare the two. Uh, so we have a little girl named Aviva, she was born about six weeks ago and she’s just, she’s beautiful and she’s growing and she’s just starting to give us smiles and it’s just, it’s awesome. She’s really wonderful. You might, she’s in the other room so you might occasionally hear her. But yeah, it’s, it’s wonderful. And her big brother is we have a three year old named Eli and he’s been awesome and he’s a great big brother. And it’s just, it’s fun. We’re not sleeping a whole lot. That’s the only thing, but that’s sort of to be expected. So it’s all good

[00:06:27.56] spk_4:
baby, like the piano.

[00:06:29.44] spk_5:
Yeah, actually, right before, right before I came on and I had to do a couple of vocal warm ups just to get ready. So I had her in my lap and was just singing and playing and probably here right now

[00:06:39.91] spk_1:
we can hear her. That’s okay. non profit radio we’re family embracing, not just family

[00:06:44.74] spk_5:
friendly but yeah,

[00:06:46.01] spk_1:
anybody could be family friendly. We’re family embracing and pets to

[00:06:56.74] spk_5:
Indeed it was going to say the other day I was home just practicing piano, my wife was holding her and she was asleep and she didn’t wake up until I started, sorry until I took a break from practicing as soon as I started playing again, it lulled her back to sleep. So

[00:07:02.63] spk_1:
magnificent. Alright, alright. And new album coming

[00:07:38.04] spk_5:
up. Yeah, new record is called Uphill. It’s going to be released next month. That’s august the first single which I’m gonna do later in the show is going to be coming out in about two weeks and we’re gonna do a record release show here in Brooklyn where I live through a, an organization called operation gig which sponsors a bunch of outdoor shows throughout the Ditmas Park and Prospect Park south neighborhoods and so we’re part of that. We’re really excited. That’s august 21st and yes, it’s I’m really excited for people to hear this music. It’s, we’ve been working hard at it and it’s finally ready.

[00:07:58.34] spk_1:
Outstanding. Congratulations, mazel tov on uh, on Aviva And the album Uphill all that info is at scott stein music dot com. Let’s bring in Amy Amy and jean Amy our technology and social media. Hello Hello indeed.

[00:08:01.25] spk_4:

[00:08:06.34] spk_1:
technology and social media contributor and ceo of N 10 where that auspicious podcast poll was taken their most

[00:08:11.16] spk_4:
special, scientifically valid, you know, statistically valid survey of best podcast in the online forum.

[00:08:18.84] spk_1:
Yeah, well, non profit radio is number one. So obviously that’s all

[00:08:21.61] spk_4:
true. That

[00:08:32.84] spk_1:
is that is all true. Uh their most recent co authored book is the tech that comes next and we have to get you on the show to talk about that. It’s been it’s been your lackluster hosts. Uh Remission.

[00:08:34.26] spk_4:
Yeah. You said we couldn’t be on until you read it. So I guess tony this is you admitting you have not yet read the book.

[00:08:41.64] spk_1:
And they’re also at the sample. They’re also at Amy sample ward dot org And at Amy R. S

[00:08:47.72] spk_5:

[00:09:12.54] spk_1:
and Gene Takagi are legal contributor, Managing attorney of neo the nonprofit and exempt organizations law group in saN Francisco and it’s that wildly popular nonprofit law blog dot com. He’s also a part time lecturer at Columbia University. You’ll find his firm at neo law group dot com and he’s at g Tac glad to have you gene wonderful to be

[00:09:13.44] spk_6:
Here. Tony and congrats, that’s an amazing uh feet 600 podcasts and I’ll second clear and say yeah, number one on my list.

[00:09:24.84] spk_1:
Thank you very much. Thank you and Tricia Madrid baker to our our listener of the week. Number one for her. So look at all the number ones we’ve got

[00:09:32.84] spk_6:
just to see if I can get over the week one day as

[00:09:36.09] spk_1:

[00:09:36.56] spk_0:

[00:09:39.93] spk_1:
your listener of the month. You’re on your contributor of the month, listener of the month. Come on. I

[00:09:45.13] spk_3:

[00:09:46.24] spk_1:
your your bona fide, you’re way beyond bona fide.

[00:09:49.24] spk_6:
I’ve been on 13 years. I’ve never been listening for the week. So

[00:09:52.36] spk_4:
jean is hoping you have one of those hallway, you know, things with the little engraved gene really wants one to say 11 week. He was the listener of the week.

[00:10:09.14] spk_1:
Okay, I see the listener of the wall. The wall, but I need to install in my home in my background. Okay.

[00:10:11.05] spk_3:
That’s a little Polaroid picture of jean. Like when I worked at Roy Rogers in high school, they had ranch hand of the month and you had your little Polaroid and your thing and I never became ranch hand of the month.

[00:10:20.14] spk_6:
That’s exactly what I want,

[00:10:27.14] spk_1:
Claire. Hey scott.

[00:10:28.37] spk_3:
We’d we’d

[00:10:31.04] spk_1:
love to have some music. What do you think you do a first do a first song for us from? This is gonna be from Uphill, the new album.

[00:10:51.84] spk_5:
Yeah, this is gonna be the single. Um full disclosure. I think I may have played one or two of the songs that you’re about to hear on the podcast before. So hopefully your audience is okay with a repeat performance. Um I can’t remember if I did this one or not, to be honest. But this is gonna be the single. It’s gonna be out in a couple weeks. It’s called on my way. And sexually the 1st, 1st tune on the record

[00:11:01.64] spk_1:
on my way.

[00:11:07.14] spk_5:

[00:11:09.84] spk_0:

[00:11:40.14] spk_2:
I’m on my way. I could still find my way out of the ordinary. Back into the free. Gonna take some of that comfort, slip out of the step all the way outside my back to push me through the soul.

[00:11:50.04] spk_0:

[00:12:15.04] spk_2:
I’m on my way through the storm and the swell as for the destination. It’s too early to tell there in a while and to sell this ain’t a river or trust. Ain’t no grow or treating this like baby. We only do what we must and I cannot stem the time. I can only stand in one

[00:12:18.70] spk_0:

[00:12:18.85] spk_2:
then I grab a hold so we won’t put

[00:12:21.62] spk_0:
me under.

[00:12:45.84] spk_2:
I’m breathing different And now we’ve got a swagger in my stride. I’m walking through new Orleans, the mighty river at my side but knew all the smells the scars now in the shaping its form with just the, the rhetoric reminds our of memories of the storm.

[00:13:02.44] spk_0:
Mhm Yes.

[00:13:03.84] spk_2:

[00:13:31.04] spk_0:
Mm hmm. Okay. Yeah, gonna take all

[00:13:33.94] spk_2:
that. I take all that. I was

[00:13:36.31] spk_0:
trying to pull

[00:13:39.34] spk_2:
myself together. The right kind of

[00:13:40.43] spk_0:

[00:13:47.84] spk_2:
take all of my love, take all of my sins. Ain’t no use trying to pass up the mess that I

[00:13:50.82] spk_0:

[00:13:55.34] spk_2:
but I will be back. I will be better be better than I was

[00:14:30.44] spk_0:
the day before. Mhm. Mhm Yeah, beautiful scott.

[00:14:34.64] spk_1:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Swagger in my stride.

[00:14:36.45] spk_5:
That’s terrific.

[00:15:05.64] spk_1:
Alright, alright. We’ve got more music coming from uh from scott’s gonna play a couple more tunes for us, including of course, the the ultimate theme, the theme song, cheap red wine coming up, coming up later to thank you scott. Cool. So clara like so claire a

[00:15:07.17] spk_3:
mute myself.

[00:15:14.64] spk_1:
Thank you for your thoughtful, thoughtful. But for words about the 600th show,

[00:15:57.24] spk_3:
The 600 show is amazing and you’ve had so many guests on over the years and I thought that I would do something in honor of this jubilee and create something called the delightful dozen for your dozen years Now. I haven’t now I have an official unofficial theme song. The delightful doesn’t are kind of just, you know, 12 people that I asked Tony to, to think of who were really truly delightful, dynamic, wonderful guests. And we wanted to highlight them on this 12th jubilee. And I’m really digging the word jubilee. So delightful dozen,

[00:15:59.69] spk_1:
anybody can

[00:16:03.34] spk_3:
have an anniversary, anybody but a jubilee. And you know, the Queen, they just stole that from you over and you in England

[00:16:08.22] spk_1:
Queen. Yeah, she she counts to.

[00:16:11.34] spk_3:
She borrowed your idea. So yeah, we

[00:16:14.59] spk_1:
don’t have a podcast. Queen doesn’t have a podcast.

[00:16:16.56] spk_3:
No, not that we know of

[00:16:18.34] spk_1:
she Exactly, there’s her problem. She’s got no marketing,

[00:16:51.14] spk_3:
no market so so well, well well talk about these delightful people over the course of the show. So here are our first three of the delightful dozen. So this is the first quarter of the delightful dozen. And our first delightful dozen designate is Cheryl McCormick who is the Ceo of the Athens Area Humane Society and she is a delightful dozen member, our inaugural member and tony Why did Cheryl make the delightful dozen?

[00:17:39.14] spk_1:
Cheryl McCormick has been a fan of nonprofit radio for many, many years in the early years she used to send me messages on twitter and facebook commenting on the show years ago she did a blog post where she listed um you know, recommended podcasts, She put non profit radio at the top of her list and she was the first blogger to do that, you know, uh gratefully, thankfully, you know the show has been on many lists through the years, but she was the first person to do that. Um, so you know just long term, long term loyal fan. Um I have my plan giving accelerator and she was the first person to join the first class.

[00:17:45.94] spk_5:

[00:18:08.04] spk_1:
was the first member of the first class of plan giving accelerator. I was grateful for that was very uh significant, you know moving that that she believed in what the course was gonna be about. I haven’t done one yet. And the course has turned out very, very well but so she’s been a longtime fan and uh that’s why I’m grateful to Cheryl McCormick and that’s why she belongs in the delightful dozen.

[00:18:38.74] spk_3:
Thank you Cheryl for being part of our delightful dozen here tony-martignetti non profit radio So the next member being inaugurated or whatever and welcomed into the class of the delightful dozen. We have a woman named Barbara Newhouse and Barbara is the current Ceo of the southeast texas food bank which is an amazing organization and so important these days especially but Barbara when she was on the show, she was the Ceo of the A. L. S association and she was involved in an extremely high profile nonprofit fundraising activity that goes down in history. tony tell us what that was.

[00:18:56.44] spk_1:
That was the ice bucket challenge and I was so excited to get her on the show. The ice bucket challenge was during the summer of 2014. So we’re going back a few years but its legendary

[00:19:03.61] spk_4:
years ago already.

[00:19:05.39] spk_1:

[00:19:06.37] spk_4:
what is time talking

[00:19:08.99] spk_3:
about it? People are still talking about it, they’re like how can we do something like the ice bucket challenge clients that like

[00:19:14.72] spk_1:
it was organic,

[00:19:16.06] spk_3:
it’s lightning in a bottle

[00:20:42.54] spk_1:
right. And that was, that was the summer of 2014, it wrapped up right around labor day of 2014 and then on the october 6th show we got Barbara Newhouse the Ceo of the A. L. S. Society, which was the The beneficiary of 120 850 million. The numbers seem to vary a little bit, but a ton of money came in over 68 weeks. They were overwhelmed and we got to talk to Barbara Newhouse, the Ceo about how it originated. And you know, it was it was purely organic. It came from three three three Service 3 folks with with A. L. S. In their family or or they themselves are patients and it was just purely organic. Uh and then what they were going to do with the money and how they were going to decide what to do with the money. And did that show that october Uh for 2014 show at the Chronicle of Philanthropy Offices. Um So we shared the interview with them, but they let me do it on the podcast and then they hosted it on their site and it was just very, very much upbeat uh moment for nonprofit radio to get Barbara Newhouse, just a couple of weeks after this all had this all had broken and to do it in the Chronicle of philanthropy Office was terrific. Yes.

[00:20:46.04] spk_3:
So Barbara Newhouse, thank you for letting us designate you one of the delightful dozen of tony-martignetti

[00:20:52.57] spk_1:

[00:20:52.80] spk_3:
send you a plaque or something. I don’t know, maybe

[00:20:54.99] spk_1:

[00:21:03.24] spk_3:
let’s not get carried away. You might get like a sticker. Okay, so the third person we’re going to talk about who we’re going to um bring into our cone of silence or whatever is not a cone of silence of

[00:21:11.74] spk_1:

[00:21:13.35] spk_3:
a basket of fabulousness. I don’t know what it is, but it’s called the delightful dozen and it’s Tony’s delightful dozen people. And so the third one we’re going to bring in is the editor of the Chronicle of philanthropy, Stacy palmer. So tony tell us why is Stacy a member of the delightful dozen?

[00:22:24.74] spk_1:
Well, because she was amenable to what I just talked about the that sharing of that interview in 2014. She’s been a guest on the show a bunch of times, most recently, just a couple of weeks ago, I think like, 33 weeks ago. because the Chronicle of philanthropy is transitioning to nonprofit status, which is enormous. Going from privately held to from privately held. They’re owned by the Chronicle of Higher Education. Now they’re going from privately held to nonprofit status. They have not gotten their approval from the I. R. S. Yet. But they have Made their 1023 application. So that’s huge and she’s been on the show a couple of other times. And then in addition to that, uh she gave me an opportunity years ago to host for the Chronicle. The another podcast uh fundraising fundamentals.

[00:22:27.34] spk_5:

[00:22:27.57] spk_1:
that was that was different. That was strictly fundraising

[00:22:30.82] spk_3:

[00:22:37.64] spk_1:
Form, nothing more than 12 minutes. Most of the interviews were like 10, 8, 10 minutes uh

[00:22:38.27] spk_3:
quick 12,

[00:22:38.96] spk_1:
three. What can we learn? And I did that for four or 4.5 years with the

[00:22:43.75] spk_3:

[00:22:45.04] spk_1:
hosting that uh, for them. And so I’m grateful to Stacy Palmer and that’s why she belongs in the delightful dozen. So there you go.

[00:22:53.83] spk_3:
And that is the first three members of our class of the 2022 Tony-Martignetti delightful dozen.

[00:23:01.44] spk_1:

[00:23:02.56] spk_3:
we’ll have more later. Stay tuned.

[00:23:12.24] spk_1:
We absolutely will. And it’s my pleasure to bring in one of our, one of our sponsors. Peter Pan a

[00:23:15.94] spk_0:
pinto. Good

[00:23:16.71] spk_7:
day everyone. How are you?

[00:23:20.14] spk_1:
Hello Peter.

[00:23:20.91] spk_3:
Hi Peter.

[00:23:27.64] spk_1:
We were just talking about fundraising fundamentals on the Chronicle of philanthropy and uh, and how Stacy palmer was important to that and uh, and you were to Peter in in making that happen.

[00:23:33.47] spk_7:
Yeah, that was our first joint effort way back in the day. tony when we worked on that.

[00:24:05.54] spk_1:
Indeed, indeed. Um, so I invited Peter to come of course because turned to communications of which he is one of the partners is a sponsor of nonprofit radio has been for several years and Peter, you know, I’m grateful. I’m grateful for the support that that you and your partner scott give to the nonprofit radio So thank you. I want to have you on to say thank you for your many years, sponsorship.

[00:24:08.42] spk_7:
Thank you were big supporters of the work you do and

[00:24:13.64] spk_1:

[00:24:27.44] spk_7:
building you provide to the non community through this program and through so much of the other work you do to tony uh, you really do a really important service grazers and nonprofit Urz especially those that smaller organizations that don’t have access to a lot of the resources that a lot of us do.

[00:24:34.64] spk_1:
Thank you. Thank you. Peter. Your, your audio is breaking up a little bit. So I’m gonna suggest you turn off your video. I’m

[00:24:40.76] spk_7:
gonna turn my video off and as I do that, I’m going to move to a better location. Okay.

[00:24:56.44] spk_1:
Because I don’t want you to be breaking up as you as you remind folks, uh, as I do each week, but now we’re gonna hear it from one of the partners. I’m just a lackluster host of the number one podcast, but still black Western. Um, so as you, you know, remind folks what, what turned to communications is all about for nonprofits. Please

[00:25:36.44] spk_7:
Sure. We are a full service communications and pr agency that specializes in working with non profits and foundations. Uh, it started from my work prior to going into consulting as a journalist where I spent a number of years at the Chronicle philanthropy, really getting to know the field. Uh, and starting to really understand the best practices and communications and pr and have taken the lessons we’ve learned there along with the the years that we’ve now been working with um nonprofits and thought leaders and uh, and foundations across the sector and apply it to the work we do today.

[00:25:43.34] spk_1:
You do a lot of work with community foundations, don’t you?

[00:26:18.94] spk_7:
That’s right. That’s right. That’s a really central part of our business. We um, we provide support to a group called the Community Foundation awareness Initiative, which is a coalition of about 100 and 50 community foundations that we provide strategic support to. And we’ve really built a community of practice among communicators at community foundations where we bring them together. We um, we provide them with resources and training and we provide a forum for um communications professionals to talk to each other and learn from each other. So that has been a really interesting direction of our work and it helps inform a lot of what we do. Now,

[00:26:42.94] spk_1:
you’ve had some valuable recommendations to in in crises for local community foundations. That’s I’ve found that very helpful. After the, you’ve all day shooting in texas, I was very happy to send out. You recommended the san Antonio area Community Foundation. That’s right, yeah. We

[00:27:04.34] spk_7:
really, we really leverage that network and try to find ways to leverage our own network to communicate about how folks can help in in response to disasters, but also how they can support each other and and and help and grow the field in a larger way. And I really appreciate when when folks with platforms like you see the work that we’re doing and the work that these organizations are doing and help amplify that message. That’s that’s the best possible outcome.

[00:27:23.64] spk_1:
Oh, it was, it was a pleasure. And uh, peter I want to thank you again for, for the turn to support of non profit radio for your kind words. Thanks very much for joining, joining today. We really appreciate it.

[00:27:25.40] spk_7:
Thank you so much. Great to see you all.

[00:27:32.14] spk_3:
Wonderful, Great guy,

[00:28:07.44] spk_1:
very grateful. Yes. Um, and which leads me to, uh, more, uh, More formal expression of gratitude and it’s time for Tony’s take two and I have to say thank you, thank you. Um, it’s hard to identify, you know, who you think first, I guess I guess listeners, you know, if it wasn’t for 13,000 listeners a week in in small and mid size shops, which are the, the ones that we all here today and all the guests that I’ve had through the years. I want to support? You know, um, I knew I was gonna get misty,

[00:28:12.32] spk_3:

[00:28:42.84] spk_1:
know, I, I channel II channel our listeners can be a heart. I channel our listeners. You know, what do I think you would ask if you were in the conversation, What do I think is most valuable to you to know to take away from this guest, whether it’s uh, you know, discussion points for, for your, your, your team or for your ceo or for your board to act on. I get a lot of comments, you know, I brought this to my board for discussion and, you know, in that that’s, uh, to me that’s a Grand Slam. Uh, I’m not capable of going any further. That’s Grand Slam is all I know about football. I’m not very good at sports. So,

[00:28:53.02] spk_0:

[00:29:35.54] spk_1:
but you know, I’m channeling the listeners. I’m grateful to all of you folks who have listened and and do listen. And of course, everybody who supports the show. Everybody here today Claire scott, Amy jean. Um, you know, our our longtime longtime contributors, I’ve got more to say about Gene and Amy later on, so, uh, but grateful at this point. Just a lot of things going out, a lot of gratitude to our listeners, to everybody who supports the show and who has supported, you know, through Through 12 years. You know, I’m Ready to do another 12. We’re not we’re not stopping

[00:30:51.84] spk_4:
tony Can I add like a tiny Sprinkle of love on top of your big love sunday for your listeners. I’m trying to come up with a metaphor there. Um, you know, I we, at n 10, of course, like a whole community of people learning about technology, but so obviously it’s a biased view, but I don’t care and don’t pretend that it’s not biased, but there’s so many people and so many institutions that those people are in, and then so many other factors like The perception or the positioning with funders or whatever else that constantly tells folks in our sector, you’re supposed to already be the expert and like heaven forbid you admit you’re not, you know, so for 13,000 people to say actually I’m gonna learn something by listening to this show for 12 years, right? Like I just want folks to really appreciate in themselves that they are not buying into all of that noise that like they already know everything there already the expert. Like there’s nothing more to learn. Like there’s so much more to learn and we actually do better when we learn together in conversation or in practice. And I appreciate that for 12 years you’ve created space for that learning to happen. But also that 13,000 people were like, yeah, I have more to learn. You know, that’s really important for our sector.

[00:31:13.64] spk_1:
Thank you amy. Thank you. I’m gonna let him have the last word. That is Tony’s take that is Tony’s take two scott stein’s got some more music for us.

[00:31:53.34] spk_5:
Yeah, I do. Um I thought I would do the title track from the new record. So this is the song is called Uphill and it’s simply about kind of climbing out from from something and getting uphill and trying to trying to stay up there, which feels like kind of where we’re all at right now, we’re particularly with the pandemic and everything else that’s happening and so um like, like a lot of work, the song takes on multiple meanings or it takes on different meanings, you know, for for different people. So anyway, that’s this one.

[00:32:04.84] spk_0:
Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.

[00:32:12.64] spk_2:

[00:32:13.20] spk_0:
here have weighed the while, nothing in the

[00:32:16.84] spk_2:
attack. It’s only the caffeine in my system. I think another night, another week, another

[00:32:23.64] spk_0:

[00:32:25.65] spk_2:
we go up

[00:32:29.94] spk_0:
again and roll

[00:32:32.62] spk_2:
like a wave a button up over the

[00:32:34.97] spk_0:
shore, sleep

[00:32:36.69] spk_2:
like a letter. Someone slid under the door. I know better days are coming though. I couldn’t tell you all

[00:32:43.67] spk_0:

[00:32:49.24] spk_2:
again. I will go up

[00:32:56.24] spk_0:
again. Years

[00:32:59.11] spk_2:
of living in my bows. It’s carved into my

[00:33:02.05] spk_0:

[00:33:06.14] spk_2:
if there is itself in my room and takes up all the space.

[00:33:32.44] spk_0:
Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Mhm. Fighting off

[00:33:33.29] spk_2:
the DM It’s like a boxer in the

[00:33:35.74] spk_0:
ring. I hear the

[00:33:37.26] spk_2:
interest in my corner, but I cannot see a thing. I’ll take it one day at a time I’m taking it on the chin

[00:33:45.46] spk_0:
and I will go

[00:33:49.94] spk_2:
up trying to catch a train. That’s always

[00:33:54.21] spk_0:
the first step ahead sweating

[00:34:09.04] spk_2:
And up straight and then I’ll fall back into bed and then wake up from the dream and take a breath and count to 10. I will go up

[00:34:11.34] spk_0:

[00:34:26.34] spk_2:
lie here forgiveness in your voice as a reason. Life sounded like music that only you and

[00:34:56.74] spk_0:
Mhm and open to the grief from open to the sorrow

[00:35:01.09] spk_2:
and opened up the chairs that I’m gonna stumble down tomorrow, even if nobody knows when the rain will

[00:35:09.15] spk_0:
be, I will

[00:35:13.74] spk_2:
again, ready for the downpour and let it overflow my

[00:35:16.81] spk_0:
cup. I’ll be

[00:35:18.13] spk_2:
ready for the sunshine for whenever it shows up. I know better days are coming though. I don’t know when,

[00:35:26.48] spk_0:

[00:35:34.64] spk_2:
I will go up again. I will go up will again. I will go

[00:35:54.94] spk_1:
thank you scott. Uphill title cut the album coming up next month, August 22, is that

[00:35:59.80] spk_5:

[00:36:05.13] spk_1:
August 21? I gave you an extra day. Well you have an extra day just in case one more day after a year makes a difference.

[00:36:07.09] spk_5:
Yeah, well the show will be the 21st and uh I might I might put it online a few days before that. But next month. So for sure,

[00:36:47.93] spk_1:
Uphill the album coming August 21, congratulations. Thank you. Thanks a lot Scott. I had the opportunity to have a chat with our our other sponsor of the Ceo jug in at fourth dimension Technologies. They’re based in India. So they’re all sleeping right now while we are chatting here pleasantly. So I met jargon in new york city and I’m gonna play that that that that chat uh right now, here it is.

[00:36:54.23] spk_8:

[00:36:54.58] spk_1:
with jug in the Ceo of fourth dimension technologies. We all know it as four D. Of course.

[00:37:01.53] spk_8:

[00:37:03.23] spk_1:
we couldn’t arrange to talk on the

[00:37:06.68] spk_8:
Uh at the six

[00:37:07.69] spk_1:
10th show with him live

[00:37:09.46] spk_8:
because he’s

[00:37:10.45] spk_1:
a couple hours

[00:37:12.33] spk_8:
away so

[00:37:13.02] spk_1:
we’re meeting in Moynihan train hall in new york city so you may hear some train announcements in the

[00:37:17.98] spk_8:

[00:37:19.13] spk_1:
Um that’s where he and I are talking and joking, welcome to non profit radio 600 show and thank you so much for being a

[00:37:35.53] spk_8:
sponsor. Thank you tony and thank you for having us as a sponsor. It’s wonderful to be here and excellent to meet meet in person after almost two years.

[00:37:38.57] spk_1:
Yeah it’s a pleasure,

[00:37:40.98] spk_8:
absolute pleasure.

[00:37:41.87] spk_1:
So uh this is a chance for you to acquaint our listeners

[00:37:47.97] spk_0:
with four

[00:37:50.08] spk_1:
D. And with I. T. Info in a

[00:37:51.75] spk_8:
box. So folks

[00:37:55.03] spk_1:
have been hearing me talk about the the I. T. In. For in a box

[00:37:56.87] spk_8:
but we’ll

[00:37:57.87] spk_1:
get there. But first you know just acquaint us with with four D. From the ceo

[00:38:45.02] spk_8:
perspective. So let me tell you what, I think that it’s got a long history close to 30 plus years old. That’s pretty long and being in the I. T. Infrastructure space all through when I mean the infra basically we’re talking about everything that involves with hardware which is like compute storage network, the list is long, you have backup, you have disaster recovery business continuity, you have the operating systems, you have the security aspects of it. So we pretty much covered the entire gamut of I. T. Infrastructure and without 30 years of experience I think we can claim to have fairly reasonable good knowledge on all these pillars and

[00:38:45.34] spk_1:
these are all aspects of the I. T. Infra in a

[00:38:48.71] spk_8:
box that

[00:38:50.28] spk_1:
that folks can choose

[00:39:13.62] spk_8:
From absolutely what we do, what we’ve done is we’ve actually boxed are 30 years experience in the industry to provide affordable solutions for nonprofits. Okay. So what we are essentially trying to provide nonprofits is being able to have the entire idea of theirs in one single interface. Okay. They can of course they have the option of picking and choosing what they want but all of this available as a single and also as a service, which means they pay for it as the use, that’s what we’re trying to send to them.

[00:39:28.72] spk_1:
You’re sensitive to the fact that non profits are operating on,

[00:39:30.82] spk_8:
you know,

[00:39:31.17] spk_1:
often small

[00:40:00.91] spk_8:
budgets. 100%. No question about it. We understand we work with nonprofits, we understand how tight budgeted they are. We’ve also seen how nonprofits have evolved with time there was a time there, they were focusing only on things like getting the donation and executing projects but today time has come where technology has become very crucial for not just survival but for their growth as well. Okay, so we feel that technology is going forward is going to play a very major part function for any organization, let alone non profit everybody, there’s

[00:40:06.07] spk_1:
no more index

[00:40:06.67] spk_8:
cards, everybody’s

[00:40:08.31] spk_1:

[00:40:08.66] spk_8:

[00:40:09.91] spk_1:
not even not only the I. T.

[00:40:11.10] spk_8:
Director, I mean

[00:40:12.02] spk_1:
everyone of course is using technology in their work

[00:40:37.81] spk_8:
and we understand the need for, especially for nonprofits to work with tight budgets. So which is why when we start looking at it, we’ve kind of made it a very cost effective model for them. I’m sure they will see the cost effectiveness in the whole process, which we also feel is probably our way of giving back in some sense in some sense, okay. Because we’re not going to be looking at purely market rates in this model, but we think there is an option to do that. But we also want to make it easy, elegant and simple for them to use, that’s the idea

[00:40:44.94] spk_1:
and there is a large U. S. Nonprofit you’re working with

[00:41:46.41] spk_8:
now. Oh yes, we do. That’s, that’s our first experience with nonprofits. It’s not just its us based, but it’s an international organization. They have presents, not only the U. S. They have presence in Japan Korea, parts of europe India all over and it’s a huge impact. So when we, when we actually got into that organization, I think they were, they had a lot of I. T, let’s say components in this actually bought a lot of things. But I think what has happened this over a period of time, they’re all desperate components of the bottle is not integrated into one solution for them. So when we got in, we realized that there are lots of things, which they were about dead bought, they were not using and some of them they could have used it better. So we started optimizing the whole thing today we wrote something to the cloud, something in the data center and stuff like that and today they are in a position actually a very stable idea. Environment is what they have And then we also manage it for them. 24,

[00:41:50.49] spk_1:
that’s I. T. N. I. T. In. For in a box available if they’re not using that. Exactly.

[00:41:57.32] spk_8:
But all

[00:41:58.30] spk_1:
these competencies that

[00:41:59.34] spk_8:
you’re describing are

[00:42:00.56] spk_1:
in the I. T. In for in a

[00:42:27.10] spk_8:
box. So using all the confidence of I. T. In the box. Ah we didn’t start off with I. D. In front of box for them. We started off with support for them but I think it evolved into something where we felt that when we put it into a complete integrated component it can really help a lot of these nonprofits irrespective of the size. Okay Irrespective of size. Excellent. Alright, thank

[00:42:30.30] spk_1:
you very much. Pleasure to meet you and uh new york city Moynihan train hall and thank you again for your your sponsorship of non profit

[00:42:46.20] spk_8:
radio thank you and thank you. Thank you Tony. Thank you Tony for giving us this opportunity. We’re really hoping that this will give us an opportunity to be of service the non problems. That’s the way we look at it from our perspective. Terrific. Thank you so much.

[00:42:47.42] spk_1:
My pleasure thank you.

[00:42:48.50] spk_8:
My pleasure. Thank you.

[00:42:52.50] spk_5:
That’s so fun that you met in the new Moynihan train hall out of penn station.

[00:42:56.52] spk_1:
It’s beautiful. Have have you seen, have you seen the train hall yet?

[00:42:59.82] spk_5:
Yeah, it’s great. It’s really, it’s, it’s almost unrecognizable from what we think of as penn station. Maybe something closer to what the what the old penn station from way back to the

[00:43:12.42] spk_3:
old beautiful one.

[00:43:13.48] spk_5:
Yeah. Trying to get a little bit of that back.

[00:43:16.07] spk_1:
Has anybody else been there?

[00:43:17.32] spk_3:
I have been there and I grew up on Long Island so I’m very familiar with penn station which you know for years. And then the first time I had a friend in Westchester and I went to Grand Central Station, I was like that’s their train station, Wait a minute, kids from Westchester get this train station kids from Long Island at this train station. So I’m very excited about the Moynihan train station.

[00:43:39.80] spk_1:
The old Long Island Railroad was underground. I mean the station was underground

[00:43:41.81] spk_3:

[00:43:42.72] spk_1:
was underground, had no windows

[00:43:44.21] spk_3:
low ceilings.

[00:43:45.68] spk_1:
Remember it from when you lived in the city?

[00:43:48.02] spk_4:
Yes, for sure.

[00:43:50.10] spk_1:
Not at all.

[00:43:51.60] spk_5:
It’s a notch above Ports authority, but

[00:44:02.19] spk_4:
you still have the same sense of like if you don’t have to stop and ask for directions and you just know I’m gonna go, I’m gonna pass to, I’m gonna turn left and then I’m gonna go where I need to go. Then you’re like a real new yorker, you didn’t have to, you know like you knew the map in your head, but you don’t want to know the map in your head. Like it’s not an achievement to know it, you know, you gladly forget it. Yeah,

[00:44:22.39] spk_5:
it’s an achievement to basically spend as little time in the station as possible,

[00:44:26.69] spk_4:

[00:44:27.79] spk_1:
Yeah, that was never a welcoming space.

[00:44:30.05] spk_3:
No. And sometimes you’d actually see like you’d see long island celebrities in, in, you know, sort of like many celebrities like islander players or you know baseball players or whatever. And you see you see them in Penn station and they just kind of standing there. I saw jim palmer once, if you remember the handsome baseball players from the Orioles, he was, I saw him once in Penn station. He

[00:44:48.31] spk_1:
was the quarterback, wasn’t, he

[00:44:49.57] spk_3:
was the quarterback of the Orioles. Exactly. And I once saw Billy Joel and penn station. So that’s like the ultimate to before Long Island and see Billy Joel in Penn station with a few friends because probably that was just maybe for whatever he was doing, that was the easiest way to get home.

[00:45:08.39] spk_5:
But this is the guy who he like takes a private helicopter to Madison Square garden gigs

[00:45:13.04] spk_0:
long before

[00:45:14.36] spk_5:
that. I was gonna say, I don’t think he’s taking the Long Island rail road.

[00:45:16.62] spk_3:
I’m on the higher end of the higher end of the age spectrum at this point. And so this was probably maybe like 1979 or something

[00:45:34.79] spk_1:
new york now has a, has a very fitting train train hall. It’s not, it’s not even Moynihan train station, but it’s like the difference between an anniversary and a jubilee, they don’t have a train hall, they don’t have a train station, you know, any town could have a station or, or a terminal, they have a train haul a train hall in new york, Moynihan train hall. So

[00:45:44.69] spk_4:
grand. It’s grand in that way.

[00:45:55.49] spk_1:
It’s like, like the, like the jubilee, like the jubilee. Um so um, how about a little more delightful dozen.

[00:45:58.12] spk_3:
Oh, I do have some more members of the delightful, doesn’t know

[00:46:00.92] spk_1:
what a surprise

[00:46:02.18] spk_3:
surprise, what a surprise. Well, I think, I think the next person I’d like to mention is a really cool lady who I’ve met before and her name is Regina Walton, tony Tell us about Regina.

[00:46:11.45] spk_1:
Regina, I love Regina. She was

[00:46:14.58] spk_3:

[00:46:45.28] spk_1:
first social media manager for nonprofit radio So she had been the social manager for my company. I know, maybe not. No, no, I take that back when I started the show in july 2010, I knew I needed help promoting and uh, and I brought Regina on board and she was the social manager for the first three or so years of the show got, got me launched, you know when I didn’t know what twitter was, she knew to get at tony-martignetti uh through the years when I didn’t know what gmail was, she knew to reserve tony-martignetti at gmail dot com,

[00:46:51.58] spk_3:
which I’ve always been

[00:47:06.78] spk_1:
Grateful for because I wouldn’t know, you know, I’d be using, I’d be using Tony-Martignetti 12 now or something at gmail. So she knew, she knew, she knew she was on a game. Regina Walton, very fond memories of the shows for and my first social manager, Regina Walton certainly belongs in that delightful dozen.

[00:47:15.08] spk_3:
Congratulations to Regina and our next member of the delightful dozen is Edgar Villanueva. He’s the author of de colonizing wealth and he heads up something called the de con de colonizing wealth project, which supports social movement and racial healing. So he’s obviously a great guy. Tell us about Edgar.

[00:47:40.58] spk_1:
It was terrific. Um very proud of his heritage. He’s a lumbee, one of the the native american tribes in north Carolina, which I have a home near the lumbee river. So he and I chatted about

[00:47:47.61] spk_3:
that in

[00:49:08.17] spk_1:
lambert exactly in Lumberton north Carolina and maybe it’s just the Lumberton Lumberton river. But lumbee certainly from that area, very smart guy. His book is de colonizing wealth and he leads the de colonizing wealth project. Um he was first on the show November 30, 2018 but I’ve replayed it many times and I’m seriously thinking about using his show to replace my annual replay of a show called zombie loyalists, which was with Peter shankman wrote a book about marketing and how to make people your zombie loyalists so that they do all your marketing and your promotion for you and they are zombies to your to your cause or your work. Um and I’ve played that many times in december but I think um I think I’m gonna replay it feels more, you know, uh promotion and and marketing have their place of course, but the colonizing wealth seems uh seems a little more move of the moment to me. So I think each december I’m gonna replay Edgar’s interview from from 2018 about about his book, the colonizing wealth. So he’ll be an annual replay and uh absolutely belongs in the among the delightful dozen.

[00:49:12.27] spk_0:
His book is

[00:49:13.26] spk_1:
a must read. I’m sorry jean go ahead. His

[00:49:30.27] spk_6:
book is a must read for anybody looking at social justice and racial justice issues and that is a must read book and I had the pleasure of listening to Edgar in Oxford of all places. Um and just a wonderful speaker and one wonderful presenter, a wonderful thought leader on on all of these topics. So I’m glad to hear he’s gonna be uh

[00:49:42.97] spk_0:
in in in the

[00:49:44.57] spk_1:
Edgar. Edgar. Edgar Villanueva, Yes, Wonderful that he got invited to speak at Oxford outstanding. Their their speaker series is preeminent.

[00:49:54.97] spk_3:
Wonderful. So our next person up is Beth Kanter who doesn’t know and love Beth Kanter. tony why is she in the delightful dozen.

[00:50:05.56] spk_1:
The only guest to say fuck on. non profit radio

[00:50:08.78] spk_3:
Well you just said it

[00:50:10.26] spk_1:
well, she was the first person.

[00:50:12.09] spk_4:
tony is not a guest. He’s not

[00:50:14.07] spk_1:
a guest. That’s true, that’s right, thank you for saving me. Yes, my statement rings, my statement rings true,

[00:50:20.40] spk_3:
but now I’m a guest host, I just I just

[00:50:23.25] spk_4:
producer, I’m

[00:50:24.92] spk_3:
not gonna do it, but we don’t really

[00:50:27.36] spk_1:
twice in one, twice in one show she

[00:50:29.48] spk_3:

[00:50:34.16] spk_1:
yes, she was referring to a cause I think was it fun sharks or something like

[00:50:35.79] spk_3:

[00:51:10.06] spk_1:
But she’s been on the show many times, talking about her books uh you know, people think of her as a technologist, but she’s also very concerned about wellness and and the the whole person bringing your whole person to work. Um Her most recent book is with with Allison Fine, the smart non profit which is another duo that I need to have on the show very soon along with Amy sample ward and uh and their co author, that’s why the host is lackluster, but it’s coming, it’s coming. So Beth and Beth and Allison will be on soon but Beth longtime supporter of the show many time, many time guests and she has that distinction for

[00:51:23.06] spk_0:

[00:51:24.16] spk_4:
and love out to Beth who in a couple months ago finished her six years on the N 10 board,

[00:51:33.86] spk_3:
thank you for your service.

[00:51:36.65] spk_1:
Very important.

[00:51:57.16] spk_3:
Cantor, thank you for being in the delightful dozen, which leads us to our next member of the delightful dozen whose book, Beth Kanter wrote the forward for. And that book is Bitcoin and the future of fundraising. And the author of that is our next member of the delightful dozen. And he is Jason shim another

[00:51:58.56] spk_1:
Delightful Guest. Yes, I remember the N 10 board. Right

[00:52:02.02] spk_4:
amy, he was on the same terms as that. So he and yeah, he invest just turned off

[00:52:59.75] spk_1:
All right, service on the N- 10 board belongs in a delightful dozen because he’s he’s such a generous supporter of the show when, when, when he’s on he rises above other folks in terms of uh, most other folks, uh in terms of promotion and just sharing the show and uh, he’s a delight and he’s always he’s got very practical uh grounded suggestions. But he also can look at the 30,000 ft view, you know, in that book, Bitcoin in the future of fundraising, you know, also able to look ahead. Um, and I should also just shout out pathways to education Canada where he is the IT Director, director of technology perhaps, but he’s a muckety muck. Education. Canada leave it at that

[00:53:02.41] spk_4:
parental leave right now

[00:53:04.31] spk_1:
on parental leave to have a child. They had a

[00:53:11.85] spk_4:
child. Yeah, he and his partner had a child in, she was born in december,

[00:53:14.85] spk_1:
wonderful. Yes.

[00:53:27.05] spk_4:
Canada, you know, Canada actually cares for its people. And so they have parental leave for a very long time. All

[00:53:27.28] spk_1:
right. thank you Claire we will

[00:53:28.95] spk_3:
And let’s we have we have one more quick one. Let’s do Sam Liebowitz, Sam

[00:53:41.05] spk_1:
sam the producer, the line producer of the show. He had the studio in new york city, I was with him for three different studios in new york city. He had trouble paying his rent. No, he uh

[00:53:50.04] spk_3:

[00:53:52.12] spk_0:

[00:54:46.34] spk_1:
everybody in new york city has trouble paying the rent now he moved around lisa’s ended but he got better deals. Um but yeah, Sam Liebowitz, very special place for nonprofit radio and for me um he gave me a spot on the show, gave me a spot on his online network when non profit radio was brand new. All of you may remember that was friday at one o’clock friday one PM We used to do our our show live and it was livestreamed of course SAM managed not only the production of the logistics of getting folks on the call and what to do when the call drops and how to get them back on, but also managed to live stream, which was going out and then he did facebook live streaming for the show and and I learned from SAM that a a minute when you have to fill it can feel like a day,

[00:54:48.23] spk_4:

[00:54:59.84] spk_1:
An hour show flies like two minutes. So Sam Liebowitz a special place in my heart and non profit radios heart for for sam, thank you Claire,

[00:55:01.94] spk_3:
thank you very, very much.

[00:55:08.64] spk_1:
Thanks and we’ll be revisiting one more time. Delightful doesn’t but scott. Uh scott is gonna play that’s gonna play cheap red wine I believe I hope.

[00:55:38.74] spk_5:
Yeah. And just want to say real quick tony It’s such a pleasure to be here. And uh this it all started from you licensed this song to use cheap red wine as the walk in music as it were. And uh it’s just been so fun to have this continuing work relationship and and so and thank you for you know picking my music and enjoying it. So pleasure, pleasure to be here. So

[00:55:40.09] spk_1:
it was my pleasure scott.

[00:55:48.74] spk_0:

[00:56:01.33] spk_2:
Baby just came up talking sooner or later. I’ll figure out just to watch your

[00:56:08.63] spk_0:
head. You’re

[00:56:25.83] spk_2:
seeking romantic advice from my bill when I’m looking for answers up on a tv screen and we care to be a nothing we can tell our ups from our downs, we’re disappointed in each other. Tell me baby ain’t this love that we found

[00:56:32.53] spk_0:

[00:57:15.33] spk_2:
know, you used to find me charming but I can’t figure out how and you said you thought I was handsome but doesn’t matter now so keep falling from a punch hands as long as you’re time poor allowed cause I’ve got a rapid promises, a bottle of cheap wine now, you know some girls are just living diamonds, they were on top of the cut of clothing that are way not to go to work for the good stuff. You’re too easily to strike to take care. Well, I ain’t got too many options. So I’m gonna do the best that I

[00:57:19.99] spk_0:

[00:57:31.83] spk_2:
Well maybe you’ll have some competition one day when I’m a wealthier man. You know, you used to find me charming, but I can’t figure out how. And you said you thought it was handsome, but it doesn’t matter now. So keep falling from a punch on. As long as your time will allow. Because I’ve got arrested promises by legit a while now.

[00:57:52.23] spk_0:

[00:58:15.72] spk_2:
hey baby, let’s raise our glasses, take a drink the better days. The other people can kiss our ass’s because they don’t like the things you sing and the heavens that I won’t flashing victory signs because we’re perfect for each other. As long as we have nobody else in mind, nobody is waiting.

[00:58:43.52] spk_0:
Mhm Whoa, whoa. Yeah. You know, you

[00:58:45.91] spk_2:
used to find me charming, but I can’t figure out how you said your father’s hands and never mind it. Don’t matter

[00:58:52.87] spk_0:
now. So keep

[00:58:53.83] spk_2:
falling from my Puncheon’s. As long as your time will allow because I’ve got her any promises about the cheaper and whatever.

[00:59:06.82] spk_0:

[00:59:11.62] spk_2:
cheap and whatever. Oh

[00:59:46.82] spk_0:
yeah. Okay. Mhm Mhm

[00:59:57.82] spk_1:
Scott. Thank

[00:59:58.28] spk_3:
you. Thank you

[01:00:02.20] spk_1:
song always makes me smile. Scott. I turned up my volume

[01:00:06.92] spk_5:
and and and I didn’t have any banging on the walls from the neighbors. So we’re good.

[01:00:11.31] spk_4:
I thought you meant from the

[01:00:14.40] spk_0:

[01:00:18.31] spk_5:

[01:00:19.95] spk_1:

[01:00:20.43] spk_5:
Know when she turns like 13. Dad, not that song again.

[01:00:24.13] spk_1:
You’ll still be on once a year. I have to hear this song.

[01:00:28.36] spk_0:
Dad, this old, he’s gone this guy

[01:00:36.21] spk_1:
up Claire. Let’s finish up our delightful does.

[01:00:59.71] spk_3:
All right. Well this delightful dozen has just been delightful. I’ve had such a delightful time putting together the delightful dozen with my Pal Tony-Martignetti who I admire greatly for his 600 podcasts. Just amazing. So the next members are final members actually of the delightful dozen are Amy sample Ward and jean Takaki. That’s two of them.

[01:02:12.90] spk_1:
So grateful to each of you for your contributions, you know, for for helping small and midsize shops, you know, certainly for the contributions you make to the show the time you put in on the show. But you know, each of your individual practices too. You know, you’re, you’re devoted to, to helping helping those, those small and midsize shops grow and, and be sustainable and be smart about legal compliance, gene and be smart about the use of technology. Amy. And um, I’m grateful. I’m grateful to each of you to have you as esteemed contributors. Um, jean you, you, you joined the show boy second month, Your first time on the show was August 27th of 2010. We talked about keeping your board on board. So with my, my silly puns. I I started early, started early. I’m still trying keeping your board on board and out of trouble and And that was our 7th show and you’ve been on you’ve been a contributor since. Thank you jean.

[01:02:20.00] spk_6:
Thank you tony amazing! Um too afraid to

[01:02:21.19] spk_1:

[01:02:32.70] spk_6:
um that long and to be a part of it too, I really appreciate you giving me a voice to, to folks like us to to be able to share our perspectives with with your listeners and really just a wonderful service that you provide,

[01:03:29.30] spk_1:
I would say your expertise, I know you’re too modest to say that, but it’s your you’re sharing your expertise with listeners, so thank you and I’m happy to give you that that that platform of course, Amy Amy joined in uh 10th show. So that was July 13, 2012, 500 shows ago, that was in all social media show as a matter of fact, um Amy and jean were both on together and then there were a couple of other former contributors, Maria Semple and scott Legler. Amy joined us on the 100th show first as our social media contributor and then technology and social media contributor. Amy, you know, I I was trying to remember who introduced us. I I don’t I don’t remember but I’m forever grateful that uh that we got together and Grateful for your contributions, you know, the time you put into the show and the collaboration with within 10 as well around the conference each year,

[01:04:56.69] spk_4:
I’m so glad I started when I still lived in new york. So I have lots of memories of trying to get on the subway to get down to sand studio and go up to like tiny one person coffin elevator into its new york. So every train is always late and I’d be trying to text you, I’m coming and you were like, I’ll just keep randomly talking into this microphone and tell him he walks through the elevator. Um but I’ll tell you that I really appreciated you tony because I don’t know how much you remember this because we’ve had the opportunity to talk about lots of things over the year. But um When after I started on the show in 2012, on the 10th episode after that uh is when intense former executive director stepped down and I told you did, should I try to be the ceo should I apply? Because I’m hearing from some people when I’ve asked them that like I’m too young or I can’t do it, you know, I’m not qualified. And you were like, why wouldn’t you be the Ceo? And I was like, darn it. I’m gonna apply and here I am all these years later, still the Ceo. So thank you for believing in me.

[01:04:59.49] spk_3:
That’s a great story. I I really love that story, anne, thank you for sharing that because so many people really feel like, oh, I don’t know if I should apply for that. I don’t have enough experience and and we all should apply for everything all the time. I’m running for president of the United States.

[01:05:13.12] spk_4:
I qualified but

[01:05:18.19] spk_3:
hey, alright then we got thank you so much amy and

[01:05:21.52] spk_1:
thank you for being

[01:05:22.52] spk_3:
in our delightful dozen aimee and jean and so um we have another one and then another one. So the first of the other ones are Susan Chavez, tony Susan Chavez.

[01:06:30.78] spk_1:
Why she’s our excellent current social media manager for the show. She she promotes the show, she’s proactive about doing it. She has ideas. Uh the things that we can do. Uh she tracks analytics, we talk each month about numbers and what might be causing different trends or she’ll set my mind at ease and say, you know it’s a blip, don’t worry about it. Of course those are the downward trends. But then she’ll, you know, usually the upward trends is usually because she had a recommendation for something that we try and it brought a lot of attention, you know, on one of the platforms or to the to the site or to the show, that particular show or something. So yes, much gratitude to Susan Chavez. I, when I’m telling people that they’ll hear from her when they’re, when they’re getting their appearances coming up on the show. I say you’ll get an email from my excellent social manager. Susan Chavez always say excellent social manager. So she’s in Chavez

[01:06:32.34] spk_3:

[01:06:32.90] spk_1:
gratitude to her.

[01:06:43.18] spk_3:
Okay, so we’ve got a carton of eggs, there’s 11 eggs, good eggs in the carton and we have one final good egg to put in our carton of the delightful dozen and the final person in our delightful dozen is none other than scott stein

[01:06:47.48] spk_5:

[01:06:48.02] spk_1:
To be, has to be yes, I had trouble finding that licensing agreement but uh Jean will be pleased to know that this is all this was all done by attorney was not a handshake deal. It was, it was August of 2013. I licensed your show.

[01:07:50.58] spk_5:
Yeah, I remember that it was from my old roommate joseph Becker who is an attorney and who connected us. So yeah, absolutely, but But first again, congratulations 600 episodes is just amazing and I should also add like as a professional musician, the nonprofit world is is also very near and dear to my heart because a lot of what we do involves foundations and you know, and and and the nonprofit world in the music world are very much intertwined. Um so this is just a wonderful resource and and I, I suspect too that some folks that I’ve worked with over the years, our our listeners as well and if they’re not they should be. So

[01:07:51.21] spk_1:
it’s got to get a lot of comments about non profit radio that it’s one of the things people say, you know they learn from it. It’s valuable but also entertaining,

[01:07:59.58] spk_5:

[01:08:00.09] spk_1:
and your music, your music brings us in every show and takes us out every show. So you’re a big part of what people like about non profit radio So thank you,

[01:08:08.75] spk_5:
thank you,

[01:08:15.77] spk_3:
Thank you. And that is our delightful dozen, 12. Fabulous people that Tony-Martignetti um acknowledged

[01:08:16.70] spk_1:
12. Yes, absolutely. And there are 12. Exemplary folks, delightful, delightful.

[01:08:23.13] spk_3:

[01:08:24.58] spk_1:
claire, I would like to make it a baker’s dozen,

[01:08:26.67] spk_3:

[01:08:27.44] spk_1:
Yes, I want to make you are extra donut, you’re the extra donut and our doesn’t

[01:08:33.75] spk_3:
crispy cream. I love the big box of Krispy Kreme, can I be the doughnut with like the white frosting and the multi colored sprinkles

[01:09:06.37] spk_1:
Absolutely. That’s you, that’s you Our 13th donut. Our 13th member of the delightful dozen. Um you know, talk about believing in, you know, you believed in me when I had this crazy idea that I wanted to start a podcast 12 years ago and you said you have no idea what you’re getting into, you have to keep it up, you have to have guests and and and you really, you know, you haven’t, you don’t have a background in it, but you know, you gave me the downsides and I said, I can do it and you believed you believed you talked me out of calling it tony tony-martignetti show.

[01:09:17.08] spk_3:
I said it had to have non profit in the title. You need a nonprofit in the title

[01:09:21.73] spk_1:
that was probably a good idea.

[01:09:23.59] spk_3:
And I talked you out of doing news because it wouldn’t be evergreen news.

[01:09:28.37] spk_1:
I talked you out of

[01:09:29.11] spk_3:
doing news and then

[01:09:30.92] spk_1:
After two weeks and

[01:09:58.57] spk_3:
then I said, you know how to do like a run down a show sheet, you had to book guests. I made you all these little cheat sheets and stuff and and helped you out at the very, you know, I’m so proud. I really am. I’m really proud to have been there from the beginning from that, that first conversation that we had at the steakhouse in cary north Carolina where I go, you’re gonna do a podcast like do you know how much work that is? Yeah, so that was way back in the day. So thank you, thank you for letting me be your baker’s dozen and the dozen donuts in the Krispy Kreme box, send us some free donuts Krispy Kreme,

[01:10:03.36] spk_1:
thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[01:10:05.10] spk_3:
Thank you. Thank you. tony

[01:10:06.78] spk_1:
Non profit radio 12 years ago.

[01:10:41.06] spk_3:
It’s unbelievable. I’m so, so proud of you. I’m gonna cry. I’m really, really, really proud of you because people think they can do a podcast. They think it’s easy and it is not and it’s a lot of work and to do one every single week. That’s why I tell everybody that I’m like this guy does a podcast every single week. He books guests, they’re all good podcasts, They’re all high quality, you do all the, you know, you bring it all together. It’s very hard to produce something and host it and get it on the air and do all the social and the and the production and everything around it. So Three cheers to you. Tony-Martignetti maybe it’s a baker’s plus dozen of 14 and you’re in there as well.

[01:10:45.95] spk_1:
Well, I haven’t have an exemplary team helping, but thank you, thank

[01:10:50.88] spk_3:
you Claire, Thanks tony

[01:11:05.76] spk_1:
It’s time to wrap, wrap our our 600th show, the 12th jubilee of course we’ll be back next July for 650. So glad, thank you. Thank you jean, thank you amy, thank you scott. Thank you Claire Meyerhoff. We always called each other, I always call it, we’re just

[01:11:11.26] spk_3:
gonna go high tony-martignetti

[01:11:12.91] spk_4:

[01:11:13.69] spk_1:
you thanks to

[01:11:14.21] spk_3:

[01:11:24.86] spk_1:
Um and uh my, my gratitude to our listeners, you what you’re what makes the show worth doing, we do it for you.

[01:11:27.96] spk_4:
Thank you Tony,

[01:11:29.66] spk_3:
thank you so much tony you’re the best. Really

[01:11:36.06] spk_4:
tony just like I said earlier, you know that All these folks have 13,000 people have been listening for years because they want to keep learning. You are such a great example of someone who has never said, you already know everything and you are consistently open to learning and I appreciate that about you.

[01:11:52.96] spk_1:

[01:12:30.95] spk_3:
and if I could say something about non profit people in general as I’ve been thinking, I’ve been listening to Gene and Amy all this time and scott. What he just said about the music world is that non profit people are really wonderful. We really volunteer our time like what we’re doing right now. We took this hour and a half out of our day to do this. Not that it’s you know, we love it, it’s great but nonprofit people are very good at sharing and actually really care about the nonprofit world and we do everything that everybody asks us if someone says, hey claire, can you write me a little article? Can you do this? Can Oh yeah sure. It’s like we all really help each other out a lot and just like peter said earlier, it’s it’s it’s really a wonderful community and I’m going to cry because I’m really proud to be part of the nonprofit world. I can’t imagine working in any other field.

[01:12:45.65] spk_1:
Beautiful thank you. Claire, thank

[01:12:47.70] spk_3:
you. tony

[01:13:30.25] spk_1:
next week. R 22 N. TC coverage picks back up with cyber security for the accidental techie. That’s a good one. They’re all good. You missed any part of this week’s show. I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o and by fourth dimension technologies I. T infra in a box, affordable tech solution for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant D Just like three D. But they go one dimension deeper.

[01:13:37.55] spk_0:

[01:13:37.86] spk_1:
creative producer is claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan

[01:13:43.28] spk_0:

[01:13:44.39] spk_1:
Silverman is our web guy

[01:13:46.20] spk_0:
and this music

[01:13:47.01] spk_1:
is by scott

[01:13:51.35] spk_0:
Stein. Thank

[01:13:51.62] spk_1:
you for that. Affirmation

[01:13:52.55] spk_0:
scotty, You’re

[01:13:54.31] spk_1:
with me next week for nonprofit

[01:13:55.66] spk_0:
radio Big

[01:13:56.90] spk_1:
non profit ideas for

[01:13:58.20] spk_0:
the other

[01:13:59.27] spk_2:

[01:14:03.45] spk_0:
percent. Claire

[01:14:06.43] spk_3:
tony Oh, I have a line,

[01:14:09.20] spk_2:
I have a line, it’s so

[01:14:20.45] spk_0:
important to go out and be great. Mhm. Mhm.