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Dahna hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I am your aptly named host and we are back again live from the foundation center in new york city or second show foundation center month on non-profit radio. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into cairo chemist, asia if you handed me the idea that you missed today’s show getting to know community foundation, they’re closer to the work in the community than private foundations are what else distinguishes community foundations and what are they talking about ? What’s trending ? How can you build a relationship with yours and tap into donorsearch vise funds on the second show in foundation center month on non-profit radio, our guests are david rose otto from the foundation center and cadbury banerjee murthy with brooklyn community foundation. We’ll take questions from our audience is we have our studio audience, thanks very much for all being here, and we have lifestream audience on youtube as well. Glad you’re with us. You two were gonna get your questions all so you could put them in the comments. I’ve got giveaways later, so keep your phones handy. And that includes our youtube, our livestream audience. You’re included in the giveaways. Tony’s tech, too, its foundation center month. I’ll say more about that. We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna may slash pursuing when you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Witness piela dot com bye, tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna em, a slash tony, tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr. Two, four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Excited to welcome our second panel, tio not probably a month at the foundation centre. Welcome, good to be here, be here, barry, seated next to me, could bury banerjee murthy is vice president of programs at the brooklyn community foundation leads there for million dollars grantmaking programs and advocacy work around racial justice. The focus of our work is youth of color, immigrant rights and criminal justice. She has more than fifteen years of philanthropic leadership at local, regional and national foundations, including crown family found philanthropies in chicago, pick our foundation in new york and james trust and cox trust in boston. The foundation is at b, c f and why dot or ge on dh kayal wyatt foundation david rose otto is the member services manager for cf insight that’s, a service of foundation center focused on community foundation research and benchmarking. He oversees operations, including its data architecture, and responds to requests for support and knowledge from member and nonmember visitors to see if insights at the foundation center he’s worked on all aspects of data acquisition and grants. Indexing for community foundation york is that cf insights dot org’s and at cf insight he’s at david rosano, eighty four. Very david again. Provoc. Uh, david let’s, start with you. I know it is. Am i overstating it ? If i see you, the nation’s expert on foundations, you have a ton of data on immunity foundations. Yeah, you could say i’m among them, if you want. Sure. Uh, small in selecting. Yeah, right. It’s ah, yeah. Resting finally group yet i’m sure you know, we if i could talk a little bit about cf insights in general, so see, if incites the cf ncf inside stands for community found asian, as you might imagine. And we do maintain a database, primarily financial and operational data. Uh, that self reported by the field. Tow us. And you know, one question that we ask and it’s kind of, you know, it’s a tag line, but it’s also a question that we ask when that is, you know what ? If each community foundation could know what all community foundations collectively now and so that’s what ? The databases, therefore it serves a dual purpose. You could say that it is that so one of the main purpose is that it provides. It helps us provide a snapshot of what’s happening. In the community foundation field. How it’s growing. You know what ? Some of the key differences between community foundations of different sizes and how they operate and how they’re at how they’re built space, how many community foundations are you collect eso annually ? We collect data on around a third of the fields about two hundred seventy five community foundations do the survey that we do. And we we do capture the activity of all the, you know, all the largest in the country, but we do have a mix of a lot of smaller ones, and they want it once that kind of well, what you doing with all this ? Yeah. So the snapshot is available at, uh, website called. Uh, columbus survey results dashboard. It could talk a little bit more about the survey that we do, but it’s columbus survey that cf inside start organ and that’s not shot. You’re sharing this with databases. So this is where the raw data this is, where they can access some of the raw data. But this is where they get a snapshot. There’s analysis. There. There are a lot of graphs and visual ization narrative about states lower, so columbus. Survey that see if insides dahna columbus survey. Cf. Insights. Dot org’s. Cats, right ? Yeah. And the reason it’s called the columbus survey is because there was actually started by the columbus foundation thirty years ago. Yeah, so we do provide that snapshot. But it also is a way for our member community foundations, of which we have about one hundred thirty, of them, who consign onto the database and perform benchmarking against each other in a variety of different ways. So they can query that data. Look for other community foundations that are roughly their assets size or up their age. Or have a similar staffing makeup. Teo. Kind of compare their performance against us. But, you know, see if insights is not just that database. We do also do a lot of research on trends happening in the field. So where, uh, you know, i’m constantly going to conferences around the country that our community foundation focus. And, you know, i got to hear a lot of conversations that are happening. And they usually are the seeds. For some of the research that we do around, you get the frequent traveler points. When you’re fine, you get some of those things that it’s part of the report. So so members so communication members can ask questions about funding trends ? What do you think ? Maybe underfunded ? What they’re what they’re piers air doing ? Yeah, yes. So they can ask questions about what their peers they’re doing it’s really more based on the operating model of the community foundation, less so than specific issue areas that their funding. So, you know, if there’s a, uh, you know, they might want to compare themselves to other community foundations that are similarly focused on dahna advice funds as they are, i’m just kind of get at, you know, you know, what is their growth rate over time to see whether or not they might be keeping pace or something like that ? But it does go beyond that ? Because there we do collect data on, you know, the revenue streams that are collected by community foundations as well to get at some of the operational difference. What are some of the ministry ? So a lot of it is going to be administrative fees that are assessed on funds. So, you know, if i find holder, uh, you know, contributes to a fine. They do get assessed a fee on that. And so the community foundation collects that. Some of them are transaction based. Some of them are, you know, it could be investment income. So some of these funds are permanent funds that are set up and invested in various ways. Yeah, source of revenue. It gets interesting. Common sources of revenue. Yeah, i mean there’s, a really great there’s, really the main ones. Yeah, dahna piece is gonna be the main driver, it’s, usually book of what the we’ll come back. Wait trends check. Yeah. You know what you’re saying ? Acquaint us, not you, not the long version of brooklyn community foundation, your endowment fund, your donor advised funds program. Absolutely so at brooklyn community foundation, where the burroughs foundation, the burroughs foundation in brooklyn. Um, we started about nine years ago, so in two thousand nine, we were a conversion foundation from a bank, so we do have an endowment. So we’re a little unusual from the trends that i think are being talked about in terms of how many assets help what are assets are and how they’re divided amongst the different ways of giving the big piece of it for us. As the community foundation is about five years ago, when we wanted to be able to really think about how we engaged with our community, what we did is we instead of having the board sort of closed doors and decide for themselves what they wanted to be doing, we actually went with a thousand conversations with people in brooklyn toe ask our community what they wanted from their community foundation. And so is i think we think here about like, how community foundations are different. I think one of the things that we’ve been really trying to do is make sure that we’re accountable to the community that we serve, and that is the community of brooklyn. So both in terms of the donations being given to the foundation, as well as the grants that were giving to the community and being able to really change the hierarchies and the ways in which believed to be usually shows up. So we do about half of our staff, a community fund grantmaking via staff lead grantmaking and half via constituent lead grantmaking so that’s being ableto bring communities into the decision making process and have them actually make the recommendations to the board on how the foundation’s allocations get shared with the community divers is broken. Super diver, yeah. Ee yeah, i mean, i okay, so now my communications person is going to kill me because i don’t know these facts at my fingertips, but it is seventy percent immigrant and of color, and so if we think about, like, the overall diversity of brooklyn, very diverse and because we think about the size of brooklyn, brooklyn was a city unto itself, it would. Be the fourth largest city in the united states. So even though it is a no one of five boroughs of new york and it sort of gets bed into the new york numbers, brooklyn unto itself is a very diverse and be very large. Um, and so as we think about the work, and despite that, only four percent of philanthropic dollars from the new york philanthropic scene actually get into brooklyn serving brooklyn non-profits four percent. And so as a community foundation, one of the other pieces that were really committed, teo is shining a light on all of the amazing work that’s happening in brooklyn because we have two, three thousand non-profits that are doing an exceptional work in brooklyn, and we’re also wanting to make sure that we’re able to support the organizations that maybe smaller we have. We have an accelerator project, a program for the non-profits that includes capacity building, technical assistance, we cede incubators, we actually have them within our foundation space, and we built our space to be able to hold them. Um, and we have a newsletter that goes out not just to our grantees, but to non-profits that air doing. Any type of well, they could go out to anyone, but most likely most important, for those who are doing any type of working in the burrow to be able to know of opportunities that they can take advantage of. So all of those things are the ways in which we want to be ableto being de partnership with the non-profits that we served with in brooklyn and also make sure that other people are learning about that. So both other foundations, individual donors, you know, be able to connect a partner organizations with one another, ensuring that were really tryingto think around the grantmaking as one tool in our tool kit, but knowing that there are a whole host of tools that were able to use you want to talk about connect attention grantees with donors ? Yes, how how are non-profit audience started in-kind start that relationship, we’ll get to that great e-giving what ? How how common is is all this work computer in terms of commitee traditions role in its community, like as an incubator connecting grantees toe donors, etcetera ? We’re seeing it. General roll kayman yeah, you know, it’s it’s funny, uh, you ask that because one of the kind of basic tenets that you might hear in the fields when you speak to folks that are working in a community foundation is that if you’ve seen one community foundation, you’ve seen one community foundation, which is just not true, and that’s, where a lot of our work comes from is that we’re able to go and actually compare some of the work of some community foundations across the country and makes a generalization. So we waken try our best. Yeah, but, yeah, you know, in terms of some of the work that brooklyn community foundations of brooklyn community foundation is doing, you are seeing a bit of a shift across the field from a lot of community foundations that are interested in moving from, you know, kind of a financial asset manager to more of an active player within their community, so they do that in very different ways, you know, it could be, you know, self operated initiatives that they run t either try to affect impact and, you know, graduation rates are work first development, some issues on their own initiatives on the right has two fund-raising self-funding yet or eggs that are doing the work doing some of the work on their own. Yeah, brooklyn. Yeah, so we have a couple different things that we’re doing. We have the restore its restorative justice project where we’re partnering with four organizations that are working buy-in for brooklyn schools to be able to move from punitive practice to restorative practice. And then we also have an evaluator who’s being able to take a look at what we’re learning and be able to share that with the field so that’s very different than sort of like the request for proposals. Hello, i process so responsive. I got to believe that there are non-profit it’s a book on that could have done that work themselves with your with your funny why ? Why not ? Why take the initiative on yourself to do it ? So this is one of the things that we learned from our brooklyn insights process, right ? Is that people were worried about young people and around over criminalization and around schools. And so that was sort of a way for us to think around how being ableto look a restorative justice within the school’s, be able to reduce suspensions, reduce disciplinary rates, keeps students in the schools be able to break the school to prison pipeline and be able to actually experiment right like that’s, one of the things that philanthropy is able to dio we don’t necessarily public dollars where you have to prove that everything will work, and i think there needs to be a little bit of risk and philantech be to ensure that we’re utilizing our dollars to their highest end goal on dso what we wanted to do was be able to experiment to see what restorative practices would work and what you know and have sort of like for many experiments running side by side, they’re absolutely not in competition with one another, but we have a cohort that comes together, they ableto support one another, strategize with one another and then and support one another. You could be more nimble. You’re doing the work yourself exactly, she’s going through four or more organs issue and i think the yes, they feel like they’re competing, right, right ? Right. And i think the other piece of it for us is, you know, i talk about our our cycle of engagement or a theory of change, which is that our grantmaking allows us to learn from the community and with that feeds into is advocacy. So part of the work that we’re doing within the restorative justice project is also being able to advocate on behalf of policy change. So we were able to have city council folks come do a circle with our young people have an intergenerational circle in one of our schools, we had a number of folks from different boroughs come with some of their team staff members from their teams learn about the restorative justice project and the impact that it’s happening within the schools and then on actually, we were able to to have that site visit the week before the city council was meeting to think about what, what the repercussions were of a stabbing incident that happened in the bronx, and one of the one of the outcomes of that was that when the city council allocated resource is, they made eight million dollars allocation, all too restorative practice and not into more like metal detectors for the school’s, right ? So we’re thinking not just about the schools and the youth and the teachers and the administrators that will be that will benefit. From the program in their school, but also what’s the hyre and goal of being able to think around the evaluation of the learnings that could impact the field and how that can move to systems level change and being able to get re sources from the public sector, which will always dwarf philanthropic dollars, to be able to move those dollars into things that we can learn there. How common is this ? The community advocacy ? Yeah, it’s growing a bit, um, you know, it depends on the community foundation, of course, and it depends on what the needs of the community are, and i, you know, i think this is actually a pretty powerful example of what the frenchie it’s, a community foundation from others is that they’re able to, you know, to learn from the communities in which they’re embedded, you know, they’re they’ve been there for a while, they, you know, they have board members that are representatives of the community, and so, you know, with their donors that they’re learning about what the needs are actually being bullet. But where is it that private foundations aren’t as connected ? I mean, private foundations could have boardmember zoho are among the community i’m trying to understand the i guess, just how they’ve evolved different why is it that private foundations aren’t as close to there ? Askanase foundation that’s a good question and i’m you know, i i maybe khun present a theory i don’t know if i give you a really good answer to that down with two or three of you, so well, i mean, yeah, i would just say that maybe a private foundation would be a little bit more single issue maybe, you know, it depends on the foundation, of course, but, you know, there might be specific issues that they’re that they’re set up to respond to somewhere as a community foundation is more broad based in terms of their there of their focus and all social community is community now focus, ok, yeah, so it’s, not like they’re focused necessarily on one or two things, but they’re focused on every need of the community which also evolves as the community of walls, and i think that that’s one of the main advantage is that of a community foundation is that they’re they’re embedded there, and they get so learned over and reacted what’s. More that get rolling, yes, a role in the community. So i mentioned the initiatives, but, you know, there there you’re seeing a little bit more activity in the advocacy space. Uh, but there also are a lot of community foundations that may play a more passive role as well, so they’re not necessarily going out and advocating for specific policy change, but they might bring together local leaders who are experts in a specific issue and host a round table or something like that. So i think that that’s, one of the ways in which a community foundation is making their presence known among, you know, not just the constituents in the community but also potential donors as well, who see that these are experts that these are the ones you know, these are the guys who might know who the main players are on a specific issue, and so some dollars might be hyre it might be better, you know, uh, better directed it if it went in that direction, and then they could work with the community foundation donor can to determine who the best you know, who the most equipped organizations are to solve a specific issue. I’d love to hear from our one hundred plus audience members. If you want to contribute, what is what is your community foundation doing, or what do you wish your community foundation would could be would be doing ? Um, you know, then you know, we’ll we’ll throw it to our to our panel to see if if those suggestions make sense or, you know, if you’re if you’re bringing something new that we haven’t talked about yet, what what’s happening in your community in your, uh, should be happening, or what is what is your community foundation doing, but let’s, bring it in. Anybody in the audience live warnings here. Anybody here representing the community foundation now everybody is in non-profit they’re all five, one, two, three yes, grantee granted type organization live in the studio, okay, but on youtube, our life stream bring it, bring it in. If you want, you want to join the conversation, please do. What ? Anything else trending that you’re seeing ? Uh, yeah, yeah. You know, you got more every time i say there’s always there’s. Always more. Yeah, i guess, in terms of the work being done, there’s a little bit of a growing interest in, um, something called impact investing on dso folks may be familiar with that, but essentially what they are are, you know, look, low cost loans that are given teo either a nonprofit organization or perhaps even a for-profit organization with social purpose and these will cost loans, you know, they’re given with the expectation of the return of that of that loan, of course. And so what it might create is a little bit of a cycle. So those, you know, those funds might come back and they might be recycled for, uh, alone to another organization that’s that’s affecting some sort of change in the community. Those impact investments tend to be focused on, you know, economic development, workforce development, but not necessarily so. It just seems to be, you know, the most common example that i’ve seen two very visible examples that are pretty easy to look up and learn more about our, um go go atlanta going tol, which is from the community foundation for greater atlanta, and benefit chicago. Uh, from the community from the chicago community trust with calvert impact capital on i think, the mcarthur mcarthur foundation. And um, yeah, so they, you know, they give these low cost loans, teo organizations that are either looking to become sustainable or to attain a specific impact, so, you know, create three hundred jobs. Back-up oppcoll mary-jo in brooklyn, we’re having conversations around impact investing, i think a lot of organization, a lot of foundations, air thinking around the other ninety five percent, right ? So, like low payout of a foundation is five percent and trying to think about the ninety five percent for us what we’ve actually looked at his divesting on dh so making sure that none of our none of our money is invested in issues that are antithetical to the issues that we’re working on, right ? So we divested from predatory lending, private prisons, guns, those are all things that are challenges that we are trying to address of the of the grantmaking and we don’t want to be making money off of something that we’re trying to address. On the on the other side, and so, i think, is we think about our racial justice lens. We’re royally wanting to ensure that were using that lens toe and analyze and make decisions that every part of the foundation. So, whether it’s, the investing, whether it’s, the grantmaking, whether it’s, our operations, making sure that we’re as solid as possible and thinking about how we show up to do the work does the investing for your endowment fund. You do have an outside. We have an outside investor that does that, and we have a fight. Yeah, way have ah, the uh, fundez finance committee is the one that overseas that, on a quarterly based probably the aspirin policy statement. Yes, advisor has to follow his lead. Yeah, advisor model. Yeah, yeah, yeah, i’m a chance, probably coming. Next-gen what else ? What else is, uh, what else is happening in brooklyn that you think others others should know about ? I mean, i think one of the things that’s important to raise up about the community foundation, i’m sure we’ll get into this more on the way we get to the death side, but within our community fund, so we’re a little bit different in terms of two thirds of our grantmaking is done via community fund, and only a third of it is done via our dafs but even within our community fund, we have about eight different programs. One of our programs is called the spark program and that’s an opportunity like i said to be ableto share our decision making with the community. And so this is a space where every year, thirty five, folks from all over brooklyn come together, they read through all of the applications of organism organizations that are approaching the foundation. Last year we had one hundred fifty. This year, we have about similar they approach the foundation looking for telling us about what future plans they have, and we’re really looking, teo, be able to select organizations that are showcasing some of the most exciting work happening in brooklyn, and one of the things that’s really nice about that is that it not only allows us to be able to have an open process to have folks come in and help advise and make decisions as to where these dollars are going, but it also allows folks to be able to understand the breath of work that’s happening within the foundation and within the sector here, use this as a transition go for approaching approaching community foundation for fundez okay, because everybody here in the audience and the audience is interested in that in that situation, and i’m guessing a lot of the lifestream audiences to so ah non-profit of a potential grantee. I know i have a community foundation local, but i’ve never really developed a relationship. How do i start ? I mean, there are a lot of different ways to do it. I think one of the best things to do is to be able to get on to the ea blast. I’m sure most community foundations have this. We have one that goes out. It shares all of the work that’s happening at the foundation, including connecting you. To all sorts of other opportunities that are open toe non-profits within the sector s o that sort of a passive way to get a sense of the opportunities that are coming. I think the other piece of it is teo, be ableto look on the web site, see what the foundation is funding. I know we talked a little bit about many foundations tend to many community foundations tend to be broad like broad tent. Everything under the sun. Brooklyn community foundation is a little bit different and so far as we know have a number of different opportunities that are focused on what the community told us that they were most investors interested in. So we have our invest in youth portfolio, which is our largest portfolio. We have a neighborhood strength program that’s investing very specifically in crown heights. We have our accelerator program that’s looking into lake undergird and strengthen the entire non-profit sector and so being able to take a look and just do your research about, like, do you fit into any of those spaces and how to approach the foundation in the normal way ? Researchers research is super key i’ve heard i know. This it’s unfortunately r coming that foundations with community or otherwise get a lot of enquiries around interest areas that they don’t work it. Yeah, but the foundation is it wasn’t fun buy-in the organization would have save itself a lot of time and anxiety if it had just done some basic research is beginning, and i am not approaching the foundation. You’re not goingto you’re gonna make the foundation drift for turn direction from its mission, you got it. Basic research is is essential, i think that’s key. I do think the other piece of it, though, and i think this is also true of community foundations, of being responsive, especially to crisis, one of the things that we set up right at the day after the presidential elections, as we created a four year commitment to safeguard brooklyn’s immigrant communities, and so we created a four year currently two million dollar immigrant rights fund, and so that is something that we weren’t necessarily funding deeply before we had an immigrant youth and family strand within our invest in youth portfolio, so we had familiarity with it. We knew about that space of work, but as that as we made the commitment as we’ve deepened our commitment over time, we’ve gotten to know that area a lot better than we did when we necessarily entered into the work. And and i think one of the important pieces of being a community foundation is we still need to know all of the work that’s happening within the non-profit sector, and so we’re constantly having calls with folks that may not necessarily be in the wheelhouse of one of our given programs, but it’s our responsibility to be ableto understand the work that’s happening both to be ableto, like, respond in crisis, and be aware, but also to be able to advise our donors, right, and to be able to say we may not necessarily specifically fund help. But if we have a donor that’s interested in health, we need to know enough to be able tio advise appropriately and that’s one of the places where spark is really helpful to us. Is that it’s a place where, despite the fact that we have, you know, commitments in these given funding areas, we are creating a portal where everyone is able to approach the foundation to be ableto go before the spark committee to talk about the work that we’re doing your open so we’re open in that way i have to stop yes, go for it. We’re gonna continue this excellent. This is what i think people are most interested in is how do i approach way are going to talk about when you were dafs donor advised funds that’s coming up ? How do we how do you connect with those buy-in if you don’t advice fundez donors and donors teo to encourage them to give to your organization, i got a little business hyre pursue it. There are nu e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups, they take secrets from the fastest growing come on corporate startups and apply those methods and best practices to your non-profit the resource is free as all the resources are pursuing you. 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Hyre and there’s someone from a foundation related to the topic we’re talking about is, well, next week we’re going to talk about private foundation, and soon shulman is going to be the foundation center panelist on on that panel, so we’re spending the month of the foundation center join us if you go to, uh, if you go to tony dot and slash fc mud, you got to use the capitol effort capital c and capital m tony dahna mary slash fc months, then you could see what the other your shows are coming up next to fridays very grateful to the foundation tender for hosting us a whole month of september. Let’s, go back to our panel it’s david rose otto he’s, the vice president of programs at the brooklyn community foundation, know that xero mary-jo thermos present programs of the brooklyn community foundation. David rosario was the member services manager at cf insight. All right, dahna sometimes it gets way we’re talking about talking about spark and allowing portals that allow all organizations to approach a community foundation. Is that is that common ? I’m gonna ask you our most community foundations open tio conversations about what’s happening in the community, even if it’s not an area that they’re currently funding or you think that you’re unusual in that, i think i mean, i would hope that all community foundations are open to that conversation because it’s important, i know i’m of course i’m going on tv, but i wanna ask you i mean, i would say i think yes, and i think partly because many communicate community foundations are big tent and so they may be trying to support a little bit of everything and so buy-in being able to know a little bit about everything is important. If we’re going to support a little bit about everything, very has a hope. Thank you. Could tell me if it’s true cash or is it fulfilled ? I would say it’s probably fulfilled for most of the field. So they have. Yeah, i would say if they have the capacity to do so. There are a lot of community foundations that are either, uh, perhaps either unstaffed or have a very small staff of one two folks. And so you know that so they yeah, they might not be able to take inquiry so they might be focused on, you know, there’s their specific issue areas. And frankly, you know, and becoming sustainable energies as well. But the ones that are larger that, you know, they have teams, you know, that that are in charge of, you know, learning about community needs and being in touch with folks. Those i would say that, you know, once you get to a certain size, then it’s a pretty safe bet. There. There, there, there, there, there. And yeah, i want to give it another two nufer questions. So i want to see anybody. Anybody in the studio warnings have questions. So you’re handup we got any something, anything on ? Yes. Ok. Ok. But the studio audience you still you still open will bring you a mike and you can ask questions. Is there one ? Okay, let’s, go to the top of the live stream, then. Uh, susan, okay, monitoring our luxury. So way first want to say thank you to chance say tv for helping us. They’re listening. And they’re helping us with the quality of the lifestream. And we have catherine barlow on youtube, so i think kathryn was listening to us last week. She has a comment for you. Tony. I got the book guy one last week. Really interesting. Catherine has a comment question. J holds a brooklyn community foundation work. The book was really interesting. So catherine wishes to say brooklyn used to be its own city, and katherine also wishes to ask our panelists. I wish our community foundation made larger grants that made a bigger impact on our communities and programs and our needs. So much a question, comment so larger grants, fewer organizations or smaller targeted grants to more organizations. Uh, i’m gonna ask you first, david, you know, you know, the operations. Yeah, i mean, that’s tricky. So it it it’s i don’t want to dodge the question or anything, but it does depend on the community foundation. So they have, you know, if they have a really robust grantmaking program in there, and they’re making tons of transactions, um, you know, depending on the ability of that community foundation, tio have the funds, frankly, to move, uh, those those grants are going to be, you know, depending on the size of the fund that is coming up from, um, or you know what the focus of the donor might be, some of these grants would be larger. But, you know, some of these grants are also gonna be smaller as well, especially if they’re from a small fallen that’s. That’s a challenge ? Um, i think, well, so we have a wide range, so our largest grant is one hundred thousand dollars or smallish grant is literally a thousand dollars. We our smallest grants are given by our youth fellows, and so they are part of our constituent. Lead grantmaking process where they are making grants to other young people in the community, and they are able to do grant the level that we would struggle with this you should be making lorts uh, fewer large grants or more smaller grant’s teo teo, you struggle with i think it is a struggle. I mean, we’ve ended up in a place where we’re able to do a little bit of each, so we’ve got tiny grants, we’ve got large grants, i would say our average grant is like, twenty five to thirty thousand, so, like, meaningful enough to have impact, i think the other piece i’m just gonna say one other thing, um, which is why i rarely listen to the rules, but i was going to say we also do multi year in general operating support as standard operating practice, and so i think sometimes it’s not only about the size of your grant, but it’s, the way that you’re showing up. So what we’ve heard from our grantees time and time again, is that it’s important for them to have visibility into the future so that they can plan for two or three years about staffing and organizational health, which is what we want them to be ableto have and general operating that they can use the money for whatever comes up. And i think, especially looking at the groups that are responding in them. I mean, i’m thinking specifically of our immigrant rights portfolio, but the fact that those grants are able tto go towards what is most needed in this moment, there are a lot of things that are showing up for organizations that they may not have planned for. And so it’s both the amount and the flexibility. David, what do we know ? The average grantspace eyes ? Um, for the entire field ? Uh, yeah. It’s a number i don’t have on me, but yeah, i was thinking it would be somewhere in the five digit. So it be you know, someone the neighborhood of fifteen to twenty five thousand dollars somewhere in that area ? Yeah. Anything else from from our live stream ? Okay, hyre so let’s continue. Then i want to move to dahna advice. Fundez you have your, uh, broken committee condition has a daughter advice from the program. How do we connect ? If i’ma again ? I’ma non-profit seeking grants. How do i get to know what dahna advice fundez donors are interested in so that i can make my case i mean, i think this is where it’s, good to be able to approach your community foundation and where be able to talk to them in some ways, irregardless of the purported values are, you know, like portfolios that are listed on the website we’re always being we’re always taking these conversations and constantly thinking about what donors we might be able to pull into the grantmaking to be able to bring opportunities that either we’re funding organizations that we may not necessarily be supporting, but we know, would be interest to a donor to them, you know, for us, it’s sort of were small and growing, we were approaching sixty funds, so were modest in size. Um, and we actually dispersed sixty five percent of our dafs assets on an annual basis, so we’re you know, we’re making sure that the money that’s coming into bcs it’s also getting back to the field that’s a common frustration among non-profits among people who study these things that there’s a lot of money sitting in dahna advised funds that isn’t getting out to non-profits that that the donor earned income charitable income tax deduction in the year that they made their gift to the dock to their donor advised funds. But then the money isn’t getting out to charities. It’s sitting in the donor advised, uh, i think the largest is fidelity is fidelity virality latto advice here. Several billion dollars, right ? And many of the top i think many of the top ten, like five or six of the top ten are are affiliated with corporation fidelity, schwab bank a vanguard goldman sachs. You’ll have charged alarms that managed dahna uh how how so, let’s, if we segregate out let’s, go back to the community foundation now saying get out the corporation, how common are dahna advice ? Find a grams in our community foundation. I would say it’s super common there. Yeah, you know, it’s been so everything depends on the size of the community foundations. But, you know, at the minimum, if you’re looking at the smallest community foundations, these are the ones that are under twenty five million dollars in assets. About, on average from our last survey. About fifteen percent of their assets aren’t donor advised funds when you get to the largest community foundations. Those are the ones that are about five hundred silicon valley. Yeah, silicon valley near community trust. You know, chicago, atlanta ? Uh, those guys on average, about forty percent a little under forty percent of their assets are going to be in dahna advice wants and that’s being scared by a couple of the ones that are really heavily, uh, you know, uh, invested in dahna advice funds or have a lot of their assets and donorsearch like silicon valley. But, um, you know, that’s that’s where the average there was a lot of press around steve baller when he made i think of almost two billion dollars contribution to a donor advised funds through the silicon valley community foundation that two billion dollars is gonna ask you right back to the average too. The donation average drink. David, do we know how common it is for community conditions to be a cz proactive ahs ? Brooklyn is in connecting donors, too, to the non-profits in the community with regard to donor advice. But with daughters. Yeah, yeah. So it’s. A little bit tricky. Because there are dahna relation, staff about a lot of these. Community foundation so these are the staff that are tasked with being in touch with the donors and getting them connected with the non-profits that they might might be interested in funding. And so that’s what i would bring up as a potential touchpoint for a non-profits reach out their community foundation if there’s somebody who’s there that might be helpful for them and getting in touch with the donor advised funds, uh, donors, then, uh, you know, somebody in the donor relations department might be really helpful for them. Um, in terms of a proactive approach, i not i couldn’t say it’s super common. I’m not sure how common it is, but my my hinckley is that it’s ? Probably not something that is a proactive approach. Ok. You think it’s too widespread ? I don’t have to. Yeah, let’s, continue. Good burial. What ? We want to break down these barriers. Okay ? Let’s do. It non-profits the potential grantees on dh and the donors who are often totally unknown. Unapproachable. You’re breaking that down if we have. If we were a community where the community foundation is open too, you know, to hearing from us about what we do. What we can encourage grants from the donor advised funds to our work. What else ? What else should we be doing ? I mean, i think being able, teo, even if you can’t necessarily get an audience or a phone call, email, let the foundation know what you’re up to. We’re really good about making sure that our information that’s coming in from organizations gets to r r r dafs side of the dafs side of the house in at brooklyn community foundations, seventy per assent of our dafs distributions go back to brooklyn, so a large percentage of the folks who are choosing toe open dafs at brooklyn community foundation, i think, are doing so both because of our racial justice lens and our commitment tio brooklyn, and the way in which were showing up, and so their dollars aren’t necessarily being distributed in flowing elsewhere. They’re being invested reinvested within the community because policy it’s not because of a policy, but i think if we were i mean, we’ve said this internally, like if all of a sudden it started skewing drastically, one of the questions would be, why not brooklyn ? And then we would need to weigh want them way. Want folks to give where they live, right ? Um, and i think the other piece of it is in terms of the fees that come out of our death one hundred percent of that go into our community fund. So that’s also money that’s reinvested into brooklyn. Eso i think there is ways for non-profits to be able to approach foundations and just build relationships with your cfc the way that you would with any foundation. But then there are other pieces of that of why a community foundation should be more receptive to your doing that unnecessarily and independent foundation that might be like this is so not within our wheelhouse. We don’t have the time or the interest to engage in that way about how audience studio and live stream any frustrations have you have you tried to approach your community foundation on dh ? Were unsuccessful. Any frustrations around dahna advised funds ? Have you had successes with donor advised funds ? Means not all frustration and consternation. He had success with donor advised funds from your community foundation. Has that been working for you ? Uh, happy to hear anybody in the audience. Studio audience ? Nothing still. Okay. Okay. All right. I’m only movement. We’re open for your hands up. All right, what ? What more can we say ? Uh, about committee foundations and don’t and don’t advice fund-raising hope yeah non-profits get. Yeah, well, i was one thing that i could point out is that donor advised funds are super active grantmaking vehicle. So, you know, even though they are growing, you know, popularity, they’re not going anywhere. They’re growing in popularity. Their assets are growing by a lot. So we look at, you know, a comparison between five years ago, if we looked at twenty thirteen versus last year twenty seventeen, um, you know, assets went from, you know, under twenty million, twenty billion dollars to around thirty five billion dollars. That’s a huge jump in five years. Uh, gifts jumped from, uh, somewhere around five billion dollars to somewhere around six billion dollars, but grants from about two and a half billion dollars to over five million dollars. So grants are growing at a rate that’s much higher than it was in what there was between twenty thirteen, twenty, seventeen. So double. So we thought that’s more another. Yeah. Um, and, you know, when you look at the the payout rates, you know, between donor advised funds and other funds that most community foundations that take our survey, you know, we’re looking at, you know, hyre distribution rate that may be hovering around five percent for most of the community foundation when we’re looking at donorsearch vice buy-in specifically, uh, you know, we’re looking at double digits, you know, eleven, twelve, thirteen percent of assets are going back out into the community so on that gap widens the larger community foundation because they have lesson, you know, if you’re in doubt asset, so more of that’s gonna be passed through and go back out yeah, and, you know, at the same time, uh, you know, i mentioned the Numbers a second ago 4:20 seventeen but, you know, about, uh, six million dollars in gifts and five million dollars a grant, so most of those dollars are going right back out the same year, so, you know, just mentioning him is a is a really hyperactive grantmaking all right, because that is a a common argument is that, as i said earlier, that the money is not flowing out of the donor advice, but donors were earning a charitable income tax deduction and the money sitting dahna advice ? Yeah. Yeah, you know. And even with the pale, right, uh, issue there to, uh, we could definitely benefit from having better data because these are numbers that are in the aggregate. So there might be, uh, you know, individual donor advice fund accounts that are that are distributing a majority of their assets or most of their assets in here. Um, where most of what comes in, but there might be other donor advice once accounts that aren’t moving dollars in a specific year, maybe for a couple of years. There are community foundations are out there that are that are protecting against that a little bit with some of their their internal policies. So there’s something called variance power that a community foundation can can exercise and effectively. What that means is that they have final say, jorgen jill, i know. Sorry. I try my best of the final means power with various provisions. Yeah, there’s always closing. But i slept my way back. Um, but so effectively when a donor opens, the donor advised funds are donates funds to a donor. Advised funds. They do forfeit legal ownership over those funds. They belong to the community foundation, so there is a reasonable expectation that that when they make a recommendation for a grant that the community foundation is going to give the grant that they recommend but there’s no there’s, no binding, you know, legal precedent, no agreement that says that they have to do with donor in-kind so the reason i bring that up is because if there’s a donor who doesn’t give a grant for let’s, say, three or four years, depending on the community foundation, that community foundation can then exercise at various power and select non-profits that are as close to the donors original intent as as possible and side distributing this wouldn’t be a first, yeah, encouraged donorsearch media and here’s, our own recommendations will definitely start money out of your own team. Now, this problem booklet, you said money is flowing out. Yeah, i mean, we’re doing site visits for folks to be able to engage with organizations um, we want to, you know, we’re learning about organizations to be able to feed them to donors, so that has not been our not have not been our issue there, which yeah, we’ll take out how common is it that that a committee foundation would exercise that that power ? Yeah. That’s that’s what ? I mean, when i say we could benefit from better data way have individual, uh, you know, fun level transaction data, then we can really get at, you know, how many of the funds are, you know, uh, maybe an active for a year or two, and which are the ones that are super active ones that are bringing that payout right out. So, yeah, you know, i would encourage foundations to share their grantmaking various power, yeah, uh, that seems that seems that seems pretty draconian. That’s we’re taking your money and we’re giving it to you, i think is close to what you say you’re in. Yeah. I mean, they’re trying to align with mission. They join a lot of steps before. Yeah. It’s a pretty for sure. Yeah. It’s a pretty dress. Still no questions about how to approach a donor advised funds about getting money for your non-profit from a donor advised funds. I’m answering all the questions. We’re i’m that good. Like channeling the audience so perfectly if there are no questions, i do have a question that i heard from someone a couple of days ago about if you receive money from a donor advised funds often time it kind of it appears almost anonymously, like ghost money. How do you think a donor who gave that money ? Do you think that donor or do you think the foundation ? Do you think whoever the person is, who made the connection ? So the donor advised fund if there is one, is there any process around that ? Because just to set the stage because the check comes from community foundation, right, right and security condition is at least under no obligation to tell you you the non-profit who the person is, and maybe they’re not even allowed to so that’s the that’s, the issue ? What does that come in here saying word ship ? Yeah, right. How can we say thank you to the donor ? I mean, we have we have ways of being able, and we have a lot of dafs where they’re like e-giving circles and their highly involved, so you would know who they’re coming from. Um, and so in that circumstance, i would say he would just reach out and, you know, say thank you and cultivate that relationship in that way as you would any thing else, the anonymous ones ? I would say it’s still probably a great idea to be able to send a thank you to the foundation, and i would imagine the foundation would forward it on to the death boulder i mean, we’re were in service to being able to support the non-profit sector, right ? We want the money to be able to go to brooklyn. Non-profits and one of the things that we’re constantly trying to do is be able to increase visibility and increase understanding of the work so that more people are compelled to give to these exceptional non-profits they’re doing really important work, so we’re you know, we want to be able to see that relationship flourish and grow, and so i would say that we’re on the same side of wanting to make that happen, even maybe even a little more proactive and specifically say, please pass this on teo to the donor who created the fund and include a little private note for for for our donor, uh, asked the foundation to send that along. We do that implant e-giving all the time when now there’s a question we got one minute. Left. All right, get your quest, tracy made with one question. We’re going to wrap up with this question. You have to be so concise. I pleaded for questions, okay, so this is the first time i’m hearing about donor advised funds, and i’m still unclear. How do you find out about those funds ? Are they listed in the community in the port they listed on the website ? How do you find out what dahna guys funds will find ? Yeah. Yeah, yeah could start at an answer. They’re a couple ways. So, you know, uh, to be so brief. Yeah. So, uh, about ten years ago in two thousand six, there was part of the pension protection act said that, uh, that, uh, foundations needed list out at least a couple of data points about the donor advised funds. So how money they have, how much they’ve given out from them, how much they received to them. So you have an idea of how much of their grantmaking activity is coming from donorsearch vice funds, they might have a listing on their website, but they usually would have an honor roll on their annual report, so they might say they might call out their top donors, and many of those might be donorsearch buy-in might be a good way for you to kind of figure out who among those might have given you that grant ware so i was just gonna say that’s exactly, right ? So, like, i’ve got our brooklyn insights, and so you have an entire page of who well, who the funds are. And then we also have snapshots about each about some spotlighted donors on dh. Talking about what their values are and what they’re looking for. Really. Thank you so much time with giveaways. So, uh, life’s dream on buy-in studio get your phones. We’re gonna be giving away a book. I got the first five people first five people who text are going to get a copy of this book, which is modern media relations for non-profits creating an effective pr strategy for today’s world. This is written by two journalists to former journalists who were on the show. Peter panepento and internet car. They’ve been there on last month. All former journalist. They had a reach. Media. Okay, so, first thing, he’s number, of course. The Numbers 2:5 2 five one five seven nine eight seven two five two five one five seven nine eight seven by the way that area code two five two that’s where i have a home north carolina so you could send good thoughts along with your tax i’ll tell you what detecting a second but you have to keep listening to me two five two yeah that’s morehead city area code where the hurricane is hitting right this second so you’re you’re um but it’s actually being answered by service in california, so you’ll get answers. Don’t you’re not gonna get floodwaters back ? Um, all right, so the number once again to one, two, five, two, five, one, five, seven, nine, eight, seven. The brute. This book is brand new. You’re gonna get media relations. The first five people to text are going to get a copy of it. Er, and here is what you text. You text the tension with a knife in the room, you text the word community community. Okay, that’s, the giveaway and it’s time for me to thank our guests again. Barry camari banerjee murthy, vice president programs of the brooklyn community foundation and david rosana remember services manager for cf incites a service of the foundation center. Thanks so much. Thank you could join welcome and thank you, who next week, as i said, we’re going to be, uh, of course we’re back at the foundation senator, talking about family foundations, i don’t get the attention of family foundation’s when they say they’ll contribute on ly too pre selected organization when you do have to break that down. And what of strategies to keep relationships going after you have, in fact started them talk about all that next week, same time next week. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, fine on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing capital p when you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by tell us that credit card payment processing your passive revenue stream tony dahna slash tony, tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr. To four, four, four, nine, nine, nine a. Creative producers. Claire meyerhoff, sam live, which is the usually the line producer, but not this week, shows social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy. This music is by scott stein, and many thanks to hear the foundation center. These are the line producers tracy kaufman, susan she aroma and william lee here at the foundation center. Thank you so much. You really next week for non-profit radio, big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go and wait.