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Nonprofit Radio for April 3, 2020: Build Your Grantmaker Relationships

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My Guests:

Amy Berman, Caitlin Mitchell, Daniel Werner,  Anthony Sanchez & Christine Kang: Build Your Grantmaker Relationships
Our panel of grantmakers and a grantee reveal savvy strategies for building and maintaining relationships with your institutional funders. Foundations are made of people. How do you get close to them? This is a panel I moderated at The Foundation Center in New York City. Back when there was a The Foundation Center. It’s now Candid.org. (Originally aired February 16, 2018)




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[00:00:06.34] spk_0:

[00:00:58.72] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of follicular assis if you made me go lymph with the idea that you missed today’s show. Build your grantmaking relationships. Our panel of grantmakers and a grantee reveals strategies for building and maintaining relationships with your institutional funders. Foundations are made of people. How do you get close to them? This is a panel I moderated at the foundation center in New York City back when the foundation center existed. Uh, so, uh, going back couple of years? Um, that’s it. That’s all I got to say about that On Tony’s take to 20 ntc thank you’s were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn, to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Here is the start of build your grantmakers relationships.

[00:05:40.86] spk_2:
We’re here to talk about collaboration and impact collaborate an impact. And our panel today is gonna focus in the collaboration. We’re gonna be talking about the relationship building of collaboration, that aspect of collaboration between non profits and the funders. All right, Most of you are in non profits potential grantees and most of our panel are the funders. So I have vidi admonished is too strong a word. But I have urged them to keep their advice, you know, relevant for potential grantees. How can each of you, in your non profits collaborate, build relationships with potential funders and even even when even when you get a no from a funder, what can you do after that? Our concern is that this is seen is proceeding to transactional. It shouldn’t be transactional. Your relationship with potential grant oars potential funders can be parallel to the work that you do in individual fundraising in each of your individual program. Because funders air made up institutions are made up of people and we know people fund what they believe in. So how can you build the relationship, keep the relationship strong even in the face of a rejection, and thereby collaborate with your potential funders which hopefully will become your funders. It’s my real pleasure to introduce our winning panel. Beginning with your on your left is Caitlin Mitchell. Caitlyn is a program and evaluation officer with Empower the Emerging Markets Foundation. Their work is around at risk youth in emerging markets in Colombia, Mexico and South Africa. Next, moving to your right. Dan Werner Dan is Social Justice program associate with the darkest foundation. Their priority is LGBT social justice, and we have Amy Berman. She’s senior program officer at the John John A Hartford Foundation, and their work is around improving, improving the health of older adults. Christine Kang, associate program manager at Project Sunshine. She is our sole Panelists who is among you apart part of the non profit 501 C three community, and their work at Project Sunshine is direct support to pediatric patients and their families. And Anthony Sanchez welcome. Anthony is corporate social responsibility manager at American Express. They’re three priorities around CSR or preserving historic places, developing new leaders and encouraging community service. Each of their fuller bios is outside. Please give a warm welcome Thio tunnel, please. Now, um important to know about about Christine and Anthony, they’re actually they could be holding hands. American Express that Americans press is funding project sunshine. So we brought we brought to the panel one team that is actively collaborating. All right, so keeping with you know what I I, uh I said is our purpose. Today, we’re gonna talk about relationship building, so I’m gonna I’m gonna start with The most basic basic question means we’ll start with Caitlin, creating strong relationships with funders again for our our audience of small and midsize non profits. How convey what’s one or two ideas that come to mind about creating that strong relationship at the outset at the beginning of a potential relationship?

[00:06:05.45] spk_3:
One unique thing about power is that we strive to and have the opportunity to fund an organization for up to 10 years. And I say that because when we enter a collaboration with new organization, there is not the idea that the organization is going to do everything perfectly, but there are a few characteristics that are really important to us. Um, the first I would say is just honest communication. I’ve had a number of grantees over. It’s inevitable that you will have adversity that something won’t go while ago won’t go as planned. And as a program officer in charge of managing our relationship, the most helpful thing to me in the kind of like star grantees versus ones that are a bit more difficult,

[00:06:33.49] spk_2:
we want to be star granted. Yes, we are just

[00:08:03.54] spk_3:
goes who communicate. Um, explain that. You know, there are delays in the project often most of the time for very legitimate reasons. And in addition to that, not only say, you know, unfortunately, Caitlyn, there’s been a delay or we weren’t able to do this activity but also have already problem solved around how to either overcome that challenge and or a different activity. So one grantee in Oaxaca, Mexico the end of their year long program, which was a leadership training for a group of 20 young people, was to take them to Mexico City. These are young people who had never really been out of the municipality in which they lived in right before. A few weeks before they were supposed to go to Mexico City, there was extreme violence in their community, and a lot of parents rescinded the permission for their young people or their their Children to go. So six of 18 that were planned to go were able to go to Mexico City. And that would be a big sort of like, uh, what’s going on. Um, but when they approached me, they said, Listen, only six of 18 could make it. We still went on the trip. They still did all the activities and we did a camping weekend closer to the community in which they live. They live where 16 of 18 were able to participate. We still went through the leadership training. We had hoped for the themes, the bonding that took place. Um, and they still had that sort of new and broadening horizons experience.

[00:08:25.48] spk_2:
And then we’re gonna have a chance to talk about some examples of impact. We’ll definitely get to that. So, yeah, basically, it sounds like you’re suggesting honesty. If there’s if there’s tribulations. If there’s trouble, let your funder. No. Yes, I have a non profit radio. I host this podcast. We gotta keep it to an hour. So we got a concise.

[00:08:56.14] spk_1:
It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As so that your 9 90 gets filed on time so that your order is finished on time so that you get the advice of an experienced partner. Uhh doom and Affirm that has a nationwide non profit practice with thousands of non profit audits under its belt. Wegner-C.P.As dot com Now more of build your grantmakers relationships.

[00:09:03.21] spk_2:
Then what? Aside from being honest about potential problems, adversity, What else? Where else could we do again? Looking to try and look at the outset way? We don’t even have a relationship yet. It’s up to you. But early on, at least

[00:09:14.04] spk_4:
No, that’s great. And I wish echo

[00:10:58.04] spk_6:
exactly what was just said. I would also say, um, from the outset, you’re a new grand T and speaking from From Position the foundation, right work and some of the other foundations that we partner with speak raving. But a new grantee is ah is a new, amazing relationship that your program officers excited about and the foundation is excited about. Um, another dynamic within foundations is to not overbear helicopter in and try toe add too much burden onto the grantee because we know that your work is paramount and we don’t wanna sit there and constantly be asking you for updates, because we know that you’ll probably be sending that in a report. So I’d say Take the onus and agency, too. Um, reach out to us and share updates in the interim. We love when we get interim updates. If you’re, um and I’ll keep it quick with this story. We have a grand t out in the rural area of California, and the rural areas of California have more of, ah, um, kind of economic climate of the US South. It’s not all L a and, um, the Bay Area. We get updates about winds that they get at the local school board level and within the local court systems. And we love hearing those stories, and we share them throughout our foundation on and it goes all the way to the board level. So I would just say, Be open and honest with us and feel free to reach out. And don’t think there, that they’re the big foundation black box and we will send them a report later.

[00:11:36.38] spk_2:
Yeah, awesome. Open honesty and even reporting when it’s not required. Correct? Right. You’re welcome. You’re welcome. Those okay? By the way, let me also remind each of you if you don’t have the mike. You can still speak. You’ll be hurt by this. This fancy omni directional. So you’re welcome. You should have it yet. But if you If you make some quick or something, you’ll be hurt. Okay? So keep it clean. It’s gonna be it’s gonna be heard. It’s gonna be preserved. Please let me burn. What? Advice for the starting that relationship real strong.

[00:13:27.24] spk_7:
So I’m gonna go to before you’re even a grantee. Andi, I agree with everything that I’ve heard so far. But before you’re a grantee, this is your opportunity to really understand who it is you’re gonna be meeting with. And you should be meeting with the foundation that you want to get to know or go to an event where you know that they’re going to be. And you should know enough about number one, their mission, the kind of grants that they do. Because when you talk about the work that you want to dio, it has to fit within the strategy of that foundation. But I’ll tell you, even more than that, you need to look at the language on that website. So you know, you’ve heard some hints here you’ve heard you know, words like workforce or words like social justice. Use those words in describing what you do. If your work relates to that area, convey what you d’oh and what your interests are within that kind of language and context that will make it easier for you and the person that you’re meeting with sometimes for the first time, to see where the fit ISS. Now maybe the person is going to get where the fit is without you having done your homework. But it’s your job to really make that fit apparent. So doing your homework in advance is really helpful. And one thing that I would suggest the first time that you meet with the foundation don’t hitch an idea because that one idea may be the thing that is not within what they can. D’oh. Let them get to know you and the range of things that you d’oh that will be the best entry. And one of the biggest mistakes that people make is they come in with a very specific pitch and their other things that we then didn’t get to talk about. And that’s the thing that would have been the right fit.

[00:14:11.20] spk_2:
Are you starting to hear the parallel between your individual giving and your potential institutional funding? Who goes into a meeting first, meeting with a potential donor and solicit? It doesn’t happen. You get You have to get to know them. Amy’s Amy’s advising. Not only do your research, but very well your first meeting not be the pitch and again parallel with your similar to the work you’re doing in the individual fundraising. It’s

[00:14:11.68] spk_7:
kind of like asking

[00:14:12.62] spk_3:
something you’d marry you

[00:14:23.94] spk_2:
wear. That really is talking. That’s what I’m doing wrong. I realized 55 years to hear that. All right, Christine, please.

[00:15:49.84] spk_5:
So I’m for our relationship with American Express and then other relationships. What we’ve learned is to is, and I think why we’ve been so successful is that as a non profit we take, we tried really hard to understand the funder. So and previously I actually was at a foundation, so I kind of have both lenses too. But it’s so it’s exciting to have the two perspectives, but I think it’s sometimes he deceived. Think of funders that oh, they have all this money and power, So I’m just going to go in and they must be able to do X, y and Z. I think there’s a lot of assumptions and and expectations that come with that relationship. But to think about the relationship from the point of view of how can I be helpful? What is tthe e funder going through? How can I How can we make their lives easier while also maximizing our impact? So it’s not just about I need this from younger. I want to get X. I get why. But okay. What? How can we create a conversation around? So for us at Project Sunshine, we focus on pediatric health care. So we always start with the child in mind. But we can’t do the work we’re doing without are amazing partners, our funders, our corporate partners. And so, while making sure that they understand our mission and the work we’re doing to ask them, okay, So that how can we make your life easier? So I think starting from that.

[00:16:34.20] spk_2:
And doesn’t that sound like something you would ask? Maybe not in those exact words, but parallel again in your individual fundraising. What is it about your work? What is it? I’m sorry What is it about our work that interest you that motivates you? That moves you? Um, and what’s in terms of suggestion? How can we make your life easier? Are there different methods of giving that we could talk about? Maybe a plan to give to makes more sense for you. Maybe it’s structured over a period of years. Maybe it’s a one time outright gift. Maybe it’s a gift of something other than cash gift in kind someone some other kind of asset. So you know, again the suggestion. How could we make your life easier? You’re always thinking about how you can help your donors to make gifts to, you know, see these parallels Anthony, please.

[00:17:35.63] spk_4:
So just to add what toe What Christine said, I think it’s important to set expectations, right? So on the corporate side, I mean most CSR teams in a corporation, it’s probably a group of 6 to 8 people at American Express. It’s a it’s a team of 10 and we’re basically responsible for engaging over 50,000 employees. So it’s hard to do that right. So we look for partners who can help us. We can help them with their objectives and to, you know, help with their mission. But on the other hand, we also expect them to engage our volunteers, right. So setting that expectation is important because it’s a win win situation. So we’re helping the non profit achieve their goals. But we’re also engaging our volunteers. So I think setting an expectation upfront, it’s super helpful,

[00:17:47.98] spk_2:
and your collaboration involves a lot of volunteer work, a lot of service work by American Express employees. We’re gonna get to that that grants aren’t only in the form of money by any means. Let’s open it up now we’re gonna come back, come to questions periodically through time together. How about questions on this initial round of

[00:18:10.23] spk_3:
Hi, Um, I was wondering how open funders are, too, like meeting new people like cold calls, your email or phone call like how approachable would you say you

[00:18:10.85] spk_2:
are? How open to new relationships. This is perfect. It’s exactly We’re talking about what you know, with the beginning phases of the relationship, how open are you to increase? Sounds like everybody has something. Say, uh, Amy, Good Michael. So pick them. I can’t.

[00:19:03.12] spk_7:
It’s it’s really important. That’s a big part of my job. Yeah, I’m constantly meeting people, you know, My area is around aging. It’s around care of older adults. So I am on the road as a national thunder. I’m on the road, probably almost every week. I am going and meeting with people. They have very easy access to May. If people are committing their life toward doing this work, I’m committing my life toward them because my foundation’s mission is to do this as well. So I’m completely accessible.

[00:20:26.94] spk_6:
Damn. Um, yeah, I would I would say that in our experience, we are one of the largest LGBT funders. So we get a lot of requests from us based for global Funders Well, from US based organizations and we Similarly, when we have a team of of six or so so we just don’t have the band with. And one of the one of the things I hate about my job is knowing that me and my team really don’t have the bandwidth, even though our way have open on initial funding concept submission so anyone can send them in. We all do look at them, but we don’t have the bandwidth to have that special touch and tell people. Oh, but this local foundation in Seattle area is doing X y Z, so I would say, Just keep at people. Find out where those funders in those spaces go. When we attend conferences and other things, you catch people in a different mindset. They’re not running the meetings. They’re not doing their grant right up. So I would say catching people in different spaces, as opposed to the cold call is one avenue you could you could employ. Okay?

[00:20:59.46] spk_3:
And I would just say as a both of do in a don’t is because in power, we are open to hearing from from perspective organizations. But do your homework ahead of time and make sure so empower supports work in 15 emerging market countries. We say that on our website, we list the country’s make sure it’s a country that you work in is one that we support. We support work with at risk youth ages 10 to 24. If you’re working with the elderly or with Children, we’re not the right organization. So in general, Aziz was saying, we tried to respect our grantees time, and hopefully the idea would be that then sitting organizations or are granted partners will also do their part, too. Respect our time

[00:21:20.74] spk_2:
if I tell you that initial

[00:21:52.69] spk_4:
really agree with that? Obviously, like I mentioned before, it’s very hard to, you know, answer every email, answer every inquiry. So doing research. I think our website is really good at providing. As tony mentioned, we support three different pillars, but it it’s a good place to start because it provides a list off sample projects that we’ve supported. There’s also an eligibility quiz. So going back to what hates that, um, it helps you figure out whether it would be a good match or not, because through that eligibility quiz, you know, if you were to select, you know you’re in a place like Arkansas where we don’t have a large employer employee base. That probably wouldn’t be a match because we like to support organizations and specific regions, especially, you know, where we have a large employees head cow and and, you know, our biggest market. So doing research is it’s super important.

[00:23:26.56] spk_2:
Yeah, So you’ve heard this a couple of times now. So what do we do on the individual side called prospect Research? You got to do it on the institutional side to you don’t want to embarrass yourself by, uh, it’s a failing to send a letter of inquiry. If that’s part of the That’s the first step that a funder once so don’t miss step by not doing your research. Let’s move the relationship on a little bit now. We’re not We’re not at the inquiry stage. We’re not at the opening stage now. We’re funding your, uh you’ve selected grantee. How can we keep the relationship strong now? We already heard Report when it’s not necessary to keep us involved. Some steel. You can’t repeat your idea. You gotta come with multiple ideas. That’s why you’re here. Way also hurt. Share adversity, tribulations, difficulties along the way. What other advice? Again? Keeping the relationship strong. Now that we are funded, who wants toe? Anybody could start. Okay,

[00:24:25.24] spk_3:
11 thing that could be a challenge. But I think is also easy to find. A potential volunteer for that really makes a difference. For us is around honestly high quality pictures of the work that you’re doing if you have a really active social media page and the reason is that we are not in and down foundation. So we report our donors about the work that we’re supporting, and it’s really helpful. And unfortunately, some of the grand teeth like it featured the most are those that have really great documentation of their own work. So not every organization can hire it’s owned photographer, that’s for sure, but I think that’s a good news. That may be a volunteer who wants to come learn more about your program. If they have, you know, photography skills could be a really great way. Just just yeah, raise awareness about the work that you’re doing. And, yeah,

[00:25:14.34] spk_2:
can I suggest that maybe it doesn’t always. It doesn’t have to be high production value to be moving and show impact. I’ve seen cases where, uh, people who are benefiting from the organization’s work do you sell do selfie videos and, you know, with some really simple editing tools that could be really compelling so they might go on for 12 minutes or so. That’s too long, but I guess the point is it doesn’t have to be high production value necessarily to convey impact, use your social media. Obviously, we all know how important video is how compelling that could be. Storytelling through pictures as well. Uh, you know, let them let them know what the work is that they’re paying for. Please, Dad.

[00:25:50.29] spk_6:
No, no, Andi, keep it quick. Might sound very simple, but I know when I was in very early in my career non profit that didn’t have much of a development office capacity. But now I know being on the other end how important. Make sure your funders are on your email list. So when you send out everything about programmatic aspects or big announcements that, you know, all of your funders are getting those updates. That way you could focus on your work. And that way, funders are also updated.

[00:26:21.95] spk_2:
Follow them on Twitter. Follow your funders on Twitter. I mean, it sounds basic, but it might get overlooked. Facebook, you know, fan their facebook page, etcetera, etcetera connect in ways other than what? Uh, what? They’re what they’re requirements are for, you know, quarterly or semi annual reporting or something, you know, connect beyond that again. Relationship building. Right. You’re doing it on the individual side. Do it on the institutional side as well. You got something in my wife’s name is Amy. So you suffer. I don’t feel like I’m sorry. I

[00:27:09.51] spk_7:
Okay, so the other thing is about your expectation for us. And you know, it’s important that you have an expectation for us. There are people. There are foundations that, you know, everything kind of goes into a black box. When, when I’m developing a proposal, I actually work with the grantee on the development of that proposal. So I’ll edit it. It’s not a black box, it’s an intentional act. So once we’ve decided we’re going forward, it is a very intentional act. But once you have the grant, the other thing is to consider me as a part of the team. So include us in convening Sze, invite us. We may or may not be able to go, but we also have the ability to write and speak. I’ve given congressional testimony on behalf of grantees. You know, we are We can provide you with more than just grants support. We can actually provide you with elbow grease. We can be helpful to you. We can even bring other funders to the table. So the more you engage with us as a grantee, the more helpful I can be for you.

[00:27:37.28] spk_2:
Excellent examples. Excellent. Thank you, kid. You wanna you wanna add?

[00:28:10.43] spk_5:
So I know we’ve been talking about social media and videos and high tech stuff. So what I think, though, that that’s very helpful, I think. And I don’t know, old fashioned is just a meet in person. So for Anthony and I had breakfast today before we came here and we try to make it a point to remember that for organizations, companies that there’s a person there that you’re talking thio cool. Maybe just got married or so to to also build a relationship around the person, not just the institution. It’s a thing.

[00:28:46.14] spk_2:
Yeah, said earlier. Institutions are made up of people. I mean, how how plainer can we make the comparisons t your individual fundraising program? It’s the same. It’s the same strategy keeping, keeping, informed, inviting. You invite your major donors to things invite your institutional. Your funders, like Annie said they may or may not come, but the invitations should always be out there. They should be getting all your press. All your tweets, et cetera. You know I can’t drive home way

[00:30:43.69] spk_1:
need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software. Their accounting product Denali, is built for non profits from the ground up so that you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial. It’s on the listener landing page at now. Time for tony Steak, too. The 20 NTC. The non profit technology conference was terrific. I hope I’m pre recording this a month before NTC. Thanks so much to Cougar Mountain for sponsoring non profit radio at the conference. I do hope that the booth we shared did not get torn down because you forgot to pay the bill. I doubt that that happened. Um, I’m sure I reminded you that the payment was due, and I’m sure you hadn’t paid it. At least I hope, Assuming that you did, I I do. Thank you so much. So let’s assume that you did so thank you to Cougar Mountain and the guests, all the many guests that I will have captured, uh, last year it was 70 knows more than seventies like 80 85 in 36 different panels or something so comparable numbers. Thank you. Thank you to the guests who took time at 20 ntc to come by and be interviewed for non profit radio. And of course, you listening. We’ll get the benefit of that for months to come. I’m gonna have 20 NTC panels. Thio play. Thanks so much to the intense staff. They’re always accommodating. And this year, I’m sure well, have been It was that the police Kwame Perfecto will of a future perfect will have been perfect. We’ll have been very, very accommodating as they always are. So thank you to any sample, Ward CEO and all the staff at n 10 that is. Tony. Take ju. Now let’s go back to build your grantmakers relationships.

[00:31:46.89] spk_4:
So on the corporate side, it’s about being, you know, you guys being flexible, right? Because, yeah, I can support you through grantmaking and providing volunteers. But there’s also other opportunities, so I always make it. Um, I always make the effort of engaging non profits where our affinity groups at American Express, because that if your woman empowerment organization, um, there’s always a way to connect with employees and other ways, right? So will offer volunteers, but We can also bring awareness to our employees. And they could make individual donations through our employees giving campaign or through our dollars for doors program. Or maybe it’s an opportunity for you to come in and speak to a group of women and just bring more awareness. So the relationship doesn’t just have toe. And at grantmaking were always big, expanding that relationship and helping you as much as we can.

[00:32:11.25] spk_2:
All right, this is a time we’re gonna turn thio storytelling I want I want to turn to some examples of how these strong relationships have impacted work on the ground. You used any example? You like one of your one of your grand T organizations? Let’s start with Anthony and Project Sunshine and And why don’t you talk about the work that goes beyond as you were just saying, Perfect intro Don’t be on money.

[00:34:07.81] spk_4:
So, um, we started our partnership with projects ensuring back in 2010 and our biggest challenge at that moment was engaging those. I mean, we’re American Express. We have several call centers throughout the U. S. And it’s harder to engage those employees who are, you know, their job is basically being on the phone, being in a call center. So we were looking for ways to engage these volunteers because, let’s be honest. Most employees want to go out and volunteer, but the challenge is finding the time, right. So not every employee has the luxury of going on park and planting a tree for four or five hours. So we thought, Why not start this partnership with ah, Project Sunshine? Who? Christine can talk more about what they dio create these care kids that are prepared in house. Esso employees don’t necessarily have to leave the office to volunteer. Um, it only takes one hour. We started our partnership back in 2010. Immediately. We got a huge response because again people felt like they were able to give back without having to invest so much time. Um, fast forward. I think two or three years later, the success of the program helped us build a case to go back to our leaders and say, Hey, this is a great partnership. Were engaging more volunteers. We expanded then to other locations. Um, and we’ve been partners now for seven years, and we’ve engaged over 7000 employees in the last couple of years, and we’re now internationally. Last year we started a partnership with Project Sunshine. So it’s finding ways of thinking of all your employees population, right? So those who don’t have the flexibility and I think that’s what works well that projects on China heard the challenge that we were having. And they did a great job at finding a solution for us,

[00:35:04.40] spk_2:
especially if you’re talking to corporations. Think broadly again, of course, because we said your first meeting is not gonna be the solicitation. You’re gonna make some enquiries. So after you’ve done your research on the Web site, maybe talk to some other organizations that you know they’re funding. However, however you go about your research, especially talking to corporations, you want to think about volunteerism because Anthony’s point is, and please do want a volunteer, and that often is a part of what companies want to give. So it’s more than the money, especially not only limited to companies, certainly, but especially companies don’t think just about, you know, dollars. Okay, so So how are your work? Is pediatric patients supporting them and their families? And how are these sick kids and their families benefiting from

[00:37:57.10] spk_5:
that great question. So we the healthcare landscape is constantly changing, and oftentimes the child, the patient, they’re stressed and terrified parents. They’re siblings kind of get missed. And so what we do is mobilize volunteers to really provide and come around the child that the parents, the family and to treat them the way that if we were the child, the parents or the sibling, we will wanna be treated. And so we do a number of different programs we provide in hospital based parties, bringing the joy of childhood into the into the hospital setting, letting kids be kids what we do. That’s one part, the part that we work with American Express and a lot of our corporate volunteers with its Are Sending sunshine program. So the Sending Sunshine program really what’s designed kind of with, I mean American Express was a big part of that. It’s office based volunteering, so volunteer corporate volunteers in their own offices get to Assam. Assemble these craft kids, so that’s a standalone craft that we sent to over 300 hospitals and medical facilities so that if you mean you can imagine if you’re a child and you just broken leg, You’re in emergency room. You’re gonna be there for four hours and you have a lot of stressed out doctors, child life specialists. They able to grab these and give give them to a child to decrease their anxiety, to decrease their even boredom to the end. To the the sibling who may be with them and and the care giver is a moment to breathe. So that’s one of the the activities. We also create these things called Sergi Dolls, which are medical play dolls. And we’ve make there’s research behind them about using these dolls to help empower Children to understand the treatment that they will be going through. And when I first joined projects on China’s sick does, this is really make a difference. And the overwhelming answer from our partners is yes, we have a wait list then. So clearly there’s a need there and the and that the need for on the hospital side for these Children, families that it’ll line so well with our corporate partners. I think it’s it’s kind of it’s amazing this win win that Anthony was talking about so over, I think with the last time we checked over 45,000 Children. Families received these craft kids or Sergio dolls that American Express employees put together, and one recently was around the hurricanes. So the we had sent American Express has a South Florida region regional area and Soviet made a bunch of craft kits sent them to a hospital suspected by the hurricane. We received this amazing quote phone call for my child life specialists who said You saved our lives. So basically, American Express volunteers saved our lives because we received, I think, something like 100 and influence of 150 Children, families who were clearly distraught and stressed. And the first thing they did was grab as many of these yellow projects on Shane bags that our volunteers put together as they could and went from chaos to calm. These were her words. Chaos to come immediately.

[00:38:24.14] spk_2:
Christine, how do you convey that message to American Express that they would feel the impact of their work?

[00:38:37.72] spk_5:
So we did have a phone call with Anthony, and we do try to. So we have a great development team that does a lot of social media and we’re trying to try to provide photos, reporting all the things that we had talked about on this panel so that we could make sure that our corporate incorporate partners feel that yes. So we did for that specific one. We were on the phone

[00:38:53.30] spk_2:
and then Anthony, you fed it back to the actual employees. Actually,

[00:39:45.87] spk_4:
it’s such a satisfaction, right on our employees and those who volunteer because you see the immediate impact, right? So it’s not like going on like a community center and painting a wall blew right. There’s really not much impact that you see there. Yeah, you paint the wall. But with these care kids, you know, if 100 volunteers create 1000 kids, you know that they’re going to get to 1000 kids who need them. So every time I post the Projects on Shine Project on our Internet site, it sells out in a matter of like five minutes like out get flooded with e mails because again, it’s a good way for employees. Thio just donate a now our of their time and see the immediate impact that these attacks

[00:39:53.44] spk_2:
I could tell Caitlin is burning toe and something will come back.

[00:40:51.11] spk_3:
I just wanted Thio say this is an example of where that sounds like a phenomenal volunteer opportunity, where it’s both beneficial, and it’s a meaningful volunteer opportunity that’s beneficial not just for the volunteer but also for the organization. I just want to say this is one of those moments or feel free to push back against your donor, where if they’re really excited and want to send volunteers your way, and it’s actually going to create more of a headache than be helpful or if you work in a context where it’s not appropriate. Tohave Caitlyn as, ah White, 32 year hold American Coming in, I’m thinking internationally, but with at risk youth are more sensitive populations. Feel free to say no because all too often I think organizations, especially if it’s a donor asking feel required to take on those volunteers. And sometimes it’s it’s more trouble than it’s worth there,

[00:42:41.06] spk_6:
Um, a shining of ah story that wouldn’t repeat that some of the themes that we’ve already heard and I, um, I’m reminded of a grand T partner of ours, that it was actually same grantee that I mentioned working in the rural areas of California. Uh, They’ve been a grantee of ours for 33 years. So not, you know, like a historic one for us, but not a baby. And we have had an amazing relationship. They send us that the updates we’ve met curated this relationship. We took a tour of the Central Valley of California. Seeing all the work they’ve done. We bought our CEO of our vice president. We met Dolores Huerta, and we really got to see their work after that site visit. You can tell that the relationship kind of tipped a little bit. Uh, you could tell that we had a shorthand. We had a common connection and fast forward to two weeks ago. The head of the project is doing great work and they’re trying to scale their program. We shopped this pro, this program director to the Ford Foundation to the Open Society Foundation and to an anonymous donor that works in this space. We introduced them thio like mine and thunders that we know here in New York City because we know that their work is so amazing. You know, in the rural areas of California, kind of far away from big foundation institutions, except for the California Endowment. So that’s that’s a story that I that I love, that I don’t think that maybe a lot of grantees would think to say, Please introduce us to your other funders. You might think that is a no overreach or going past, but I think you can get a read on that relationship once it reaches that tipping

[00:42:55.05] spk_2:
point. That’s something I’m sure a lot of organizations you wouldn’t even think to do. Introduce us to your other funders.

[00:43:32.35] spk_1:
It’s time for our last break turn to communications their former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists so that your call gets answered. They pick up the phone for you when there’s news that you need to comment on because they got the relationship with you so that you stay relevant in your work. Including they are former journalists at the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They understand the community. There are turn hyphen to DOT CEO. We’ve got butt loads more time for build your grantmakers relationships.

[00:43:37.53] spk_2:
You got a back story.

[00:46:35.53] spk_7:
I do have an impact story. So, um, in the foundation world, the most popular areas to fund our the arts, education and Children, and my foundation does not fund that. In fact, out of 105 1000 foundations in this country, only six air primarily focused on older adults. So very, very small group of funders that do work nationally in this space. And we really care about creating a JJ friendly health systems. You know, how are they gonna be responsive to older adults caring about serious illness and end of life and also about family caregivers? So one of the grants is here in New York City. It’s the center toe to advance palliative care. It trains people to provide care and make sure that they haven’t the obscure planning so that their, you know, their goals are what the care is that they get at the end that they relieve suffering. They make sure that people have the care that they need when they go through very serious illness, even when they’re gonna get better from serious illness to help them get through that serious illness. And so the kinds of impact this work has had, um, today palliative care is in roughly 90% of hospitals nationally. That’s huge. It only came to this country in the 19 eighties. We have been a long and sustained funder in this space, and we may be slowed a warm, but we tend to be a longer and sustained thunder around impact. Theo. Other thing was there were very few funders that were interested in this space. Does anybody remember the death panel conversations? Okay, well, thankfully, we’re not having a lot of those today. But there were very few funders that we’re doing focused work in this area. So I decided I was going to start having calls. This was not with the grantee. This was on behalf of the grantee. I wanted to create a safe learning space for foundations that might be thinking about this. They wanted to learn. And so what’s happened with that? We now have a very large collaborative. People are more strategic. They know people that they want to fund. We fund together some things we fund next to each other and other things. Things past year, about $80 million in new funding was in this space. And this is on behalf of the grantee, the grant. He could not have had those calls, but it was necessary to begin Thio bring people into the space. And now they’re coming out of the woodwork. We actually did a grant to give somebody money to help coordinate this group. You know, coordinate the calls and everything else. So Thean pact is huge. The thing only other thing about this was about seven years ago. I was diagnosed with stage four cancer, and I had been doing this work long before. My, you know, this is my my area. But then I made a decision. How could I make use of the situation to further healthy grantee? So I’ve been writing speaking. We’ve put on congressional briefings together. Eso any other way that I could be helpful. I am definitely shoulder to shoulder with the grantee.

[00:47:00.14] spk_2:
Thank you for sharing that. Thank you. Back story. And then we’re gonna come back to the come back to you. It’ll be peppermint lifesavers. Time very shortly after Caitlin’s Kitten’s got an example.

[00:49:33.10] spk_3:
Yes, and I would just go back to some power can fund your question around. Um, like what to do once you’re already a grantee and kind of in the medium term and how it can be really helpful for the relationship. So just to say one of the key criteria we look for when determining whether or not we’re going to fund an organization for a 2nd 1/3 a fourth year. Is this idea around? Are they a learning organization? And by that we mean a couple of things on one. Um, really, The most important is like I said, we don’t expect programs to go perfectly. There’s challenges that come up. Youth are dynamic and changing issue areas arise but really impactful. Grantees that we have in great relationships and the really impactful programming are constantly learning and adapting and analyzing what went well, what it’s our strange what’s an area for improvement and even again, the same grand T in Oaxaca, Mexico. So in the course of their programming found that the middle school population that they were working with were engaging in self harm and cutting, and they recognized we as an organization don’t have expertise on this. But they themselves reached out, identified an organization in Canada that focuses on this and then came to us and said, Listen and our next grant, we would love to include a line item to have training on this to better serve our young people, Um, and with a learning organization, I would just say also openness to feedback. We think, you know, we support programs across the globe and sometimes see similar challenges in best practices. So it’s not a donor driven by any means. But being open to feedback is really important, even if you don’t necessarily take it on. And then also, with this learning organization comes which some silly but playing well with others. So we often ask grantee organizations what other organizations are doing great work in their field. And it’s a red flag for us if they if they come back and say no one else is doing it as well as we are, which has happened. And, uh, yeah, so I would say, being a learning organization playing while collaborating with other service providers. It’s something that we look for, provides

[00:50:07.53] spk_2:
Question occurs to me based on what you and Amy and we’re saying, especially if you’re being funded. What about? So if none of your funders ask, can we meet your other funders? If you’re If you’re a grantee? What about staying? We’d like you to meet our other funders. What about the grantee putting that those that possibility together. Is there a downside we’re talking about? Could there be okay? So So the grantee could think of it. If none of the funders do, there’s no Doesn’t seem to be a downside to that. And just just a couple of sentences. Don’t do this. Stop your top. Don’t do this.

[00:50:27.51] spk_7:
Yeah. The worst thing that you could do is when you have an opportunity to get funding to listen to the thunder about what it is you should be funding. In other words, don’t move from your mission. If it’s not helpful to your mission and strategy, it’s a disaster.

[00:50:52.71] spk_5:
Okay, I’m gonna just I’ll answer this from my previous foundation experience. One thing was don’t get angry when you get like when you get defunded. So there was one of the things that was very difficult was when I was for a funder is to not fund again. That’s very hard, I think from I’m sure everyone here knows and to have to send out a declination is also hard to have that he met with anger and accusation. Not great.

[00:51:24.79] spk_4:
I would say. Don’t go into your automatic pitch right? Because we have objectives. You have objectives. So it goes just back to what we’ve been saying doing research and not just assuming all American Express is a company with so much money that we would necessarily support. I’m sure your mission is important, but it might be something that we’re not. Um it’s not within our government that we would support. So not just going into your pitch and assuming

[00:52:03.76] spk_6:
that. Okay, Miss Deadlines, this deadlock don’t miss deadlines. You can ask for an extension. Don’t do it. 11. 59 the day of, um, but my in my over four years in the land to be I know exactly those organizations that I think you’re gonna fall through the cracks unless our team reminds them. And I feel like that’s a perception issue happens with individuals. You won’t know that one person that made a bad impression in your family or at work and that perception than permeates it and then stays. So just have a schedule. Have reminders, have your assistance, remind you whatever but yeah, don’t.

[00:52:30.84] spk_2:
Please. There’s so many technical tools that can help you do everything from wake up to know when to go to sleep Everything in between. So use the use, the app to use tools. We have,

[00:53:01.58] spk_3:
um, to one I would say is don’t fall off the place. The face of the earth. So we’ve had some grantees just disappear. Yeah, and and not communicating, I would say, Even if it’s a one line, you know, again in Mexico, right after the earthquake, we reached out to guarantees. How are you doing? You know, we’re in the trenches, but thank you for thinking of us. Boom. Or, you know, where is your report? I’m sorry. There’s been delays. Just keep the communication open.

[00:53:12.25] spk_2:
So please, let’s join me in thanking

[00:53:31.56] spk_0:
way. Christine Damn Warner. And I hope you see

[00:53:37.69] spk_2:
all the connections between your individual fundraising and your newly invigorated institutional fund raising program

[00:54:36.35] spk_1:
next week. Now that you’ve got great grantmakers relationships, it’s terrible. Charge your grants. Fundraising with John Hicks. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by cooking meth and software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn, to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Ah, creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the lying producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is that Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Believe me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great

Nonprofit Radio for June 14, 2019: Giving Tuesday & Candid

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It’s time to start your prep for this rapidly growing giving day, this year on December 3rd. Asha Curran, CEO of Giving Tuesday, gets you started.

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Guidestar and The Foundation Center have merged to form Candid. Their respective former CEOs are with me to explain what it means for your nonprofit. They’re Jacob Harold and Brad Smith, Candid’s CEO. 

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Transcript for 443_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190614.mp3 Processed on: 2019-06-17T12:34:38.637Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…06…443_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190614.mp3.390956394.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/06/443_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190614.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, very nice to be back in the studio live after several weeks pre recorded and I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of Mega Lo Kyra if you handed me the idea that you missed today’s show. E-giving. Tuesday 2019 Part one It’s time to start your prep for this rapidly growing e-giving day this year on December 3rd, Asha Curren, CEO of giving Tuesday, gets you started, and Candid Guide Star and the Foundation Center have merged to form Candid their respective former CEO’s air with me to explain what it means for your non-profit. They’re Jacob Harold and Brad Smith candids. New president on Tony’s take to summertime is planning time. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising Data driven and Technology enabled. 20 dahna slash pursuing by Wagner CPS Guiding you beyond the numbers whether cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to 444999 It’s a pleasure to welcome Asher current back to the show with a new title she is CEO of giving Tuesday the global generosity movement that we’re going to learn a lot about. She’s also chief innovation officer at the 92nd Street Y, but not for long. She’s a fellow at Stanford University’s Digital Civil Society lab. She’s at Radio Free Asha and giving Tuesday Is that giving Tuesday dot or GE? I should current Hello and welcome back, Tony. Nice to be here. Thanks for having me. It’s my pleasure. Thank you. Um So tell me about your this new, exciting title that you’ve got CEO of of ah e-giving Tuesday. I didn’t know like that. Sounds to me like CEO of Of metoo are I don’t know, how does that work or CEO of Christmas? It is pretty funny. Well, so e-giving Tuesday’s the movement and on DH movements have lots and lots of leaders and all those leaders Coke create e-giving Tuesday e-giving Tuesday is also how the leadership and has a new organization. And as you know, we have seen incubated at the 92nd Street y forgiving Tuesday’s the 1st 7 and 1/2 years and so we’re going to be transitioning to become independent, which is really exciting It doesn’t make a huge amount of difference to your average e-giving tease, a participant or or a fan or super ambassador. But it makes a big difference to us because it’s really interesting. Actually, they consider that for everything giving Tuesday has has done and for how much it’s grown in the past eight years. E-giving Tuesday has never actually had a single full time employees, myself included, and that just became an unsustainable situation. So the 90 Seconds she wide Belfer center, which I direct the full time leadership and giving Tuesday, needs full time leadership. And and so I’m going to be transitioning out to work full time on giving Tuesday and really double down on arika. Wonderful, you’re our first guest on about giving Tuesday was Henry Henry. Tim’s the CEO of the many secretary. Why, after the first after the very 1st 1 Andi have sampled it from time to time after that, So So this is a paid position, all right, Where does the where does the money come to pay to pay you? Is that is that from the Why? No way. Stop, That’s that part’s not really changing. We fundrasing freezing Tuesday we had fund-raising for years has been very generously supported by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, so they will continue to support us and we will continue to raise additional funds as well to support all the different parts of the movement that that we want to support and cultivate, including our leadership team. Yeah, and what are the other leadership positions? I don’t I don’t think people know this And plus, it’s all brand new so but I don’t think I know that it’s not new. It’s actually it’s not brand new over there. Over the years, we have built up e-giving Tuesday team court what we call our core team because it’s really important to distinguish the are core team from the leaders that exist all over this country and all over the world who are leading like entire giving Tuesday country movement Right there. We don’t consider them part of our quarantine, but there’s certainly part of our broader community and our broader network. We all work extremely closely together, but our team of 10 is my self, A data lead. We have a strategy lead way, have a fund-raising and data support. We have a global community manager. We have a social media manager. So yes, there are definitely people that are devoting lots and lots of time, making sure that we amplify all the good work that giving Tuesday is doing all over the world. You know, sometimes we have, you know, certain strategic objective that come from us. But often what happens e-giving Tuesday is that we see something, something meaningful, something inspiring, something that we think a lot of tension organically emerging from the movement. And then we, as a team talk about how we can best support that. So there have been lots of different examples our community campaigns, for example, which are entire state or small cities or big town whatever that come together to create a e-giving Tuesday campaign that pulls together all of the different segments and sectors of that community and really reflects that communities, identity and population and a sense of civic pride so that we had no expectation that that who happened, We just had no idea when we first launched e-giving Tuesday and that first, you know, years that Henry and I were working on it. That’s not something we expected to see. It happened. And so our job as a team was to make it at six. Cecil, as we possibly could offer all of the additional support convening power, all of that to what was emerging organically. Another example is our country’s leaders. We had no idea getting Tuesday. We cross borders now, As you know, we we predicated it on Black Friday and Cyber Monday on Thanksgiving, for that matter. But I mean, that’s all pretty us focused. But almost immediately giving Tuesday started to cross Borders, and now we’ve We’ve passed 60 countries, so we spend a lot of time in this sort of Pierre learning ecosystem that those country leaders have come to comprise. Okay, I see so right, not new, but I still, I think, widely unknown. I think people think it’s all undistributed, and, um, I don’t think that’s commonly know that there’s this leadership team of 10. That’s really no, I think you’re absolutely right and partial Tony, that’s kind of fine design, like we’re not, You know, we’re not enough self promotion, you know, exactly minutes, and I think it’s really interesting. You know, a movement can be leaderless right and that there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just a different model on DH. Movement can be leader full, and we like to think of it in that way that we’re not the only leaders of the movement. But we are way are certainly hear ourselves as its backbone. Yeah, it’s all. It’s all very new power to give old Marge Teo Henry’s book and he’s been on talking about. He was on talking about it when it came out. Yeah, it’s all very new power. So are the Are the 10 people going to be full time e-giving Tuesday employees or just US CEO? No. So what? We’re going to be full time team final e-giving on Tuesday, the full time attention it really needs and hopefully, you know, fingers crossed. Many will raise enough money. Teo even hyre. Beyond that, I don’t think we need to ever become a you know, a a massive team. I don’t think we ever need hundreds of people, but I do think that as we expand to all of these different countries as we get more deeply into data work, we certainly want to be as well staffed as we possibly can be to try to achieve everything that we’ve achieved. But we’re very nontraditional when it comes to fund-raising as well, because we feel like we could do good with whatever we raised, right? So if we raise $100 will do $1000 worth of good with it. If we raise $1,000,000 etcetera Will Will will always parlay that into into exponential growth, as we have so far. All right, Well, congratulations on this new transition. Yeah, that’s happening in just a couple weeks, right? Is it July 1st? Is that one? It is, indeed. It’s happening on a lifer, so it’s really it’s really coming up, and I’m very excited about it. Awesome. Uh, we all are. All right. We gotta take our first break standby for me, Asha Pursuing two. They’ve got a podcast. Ah, and it is Go beyond. It’s hosted by their vice president, Taylor Shanklin, who is a friend of non-profit radio, of course, and has been a guest. Recent episodes of Go Beyond our Self Care for Leaders and for Digital Trends. For 2019 you’ll find their podcast go beyond at pursuant dot com slash resource is now. Let’s go back to giving Tuesday 2019 part one. All right, so that’s, er good news. Fabulous news. Congratulations again. So let’s, uh this is going to be the first of two times that Will, we’ll have you as, ah have the pleasure of you as a guest and now honored to have you as a full time CEO. Uhm, that’s kind of like that’s kind. Like any sample ward, our social media contributors. She started when she was marketing manager or whatever. What marketing lead for? Not for non-profit Technology Network. And then when she became CEO, she I’m glad stayed on as our social media on DH Tech contributor. So you’ll sew in your new position as a full time CEO of e-giving Tuesday. Well, we’ll look forward to having you back, and I’m glad you’re here today. So this whole announcement, Graham. I’m looking forward to you. Thank you. All right, um, so let’s get people motivated. Who have heard of giving Tuesday? Still, there’s still some reluctance, but I see I hear that waning. It’s not like in year one or two where, you know there was there. Was there a lot of naysayers that I think, at least in the press that I read. I think that’s declined. They’re still occasional, but you know, that’s fine. I mean, they’re entitled to their opinions. But for those who need some motivation for being involved with e-giving Tuesday on December 3rd of this year, what can you provide? How it’s growing, how easy it is to participate, etcetera. Oh, boy, we’re to start. You’re gonna have to shut me up, Tony. Okay, we’ll start with Okay, Let’s start with a couple of common misconceptions. Maybe works. So one thing that I hear expressed a concern is that e-giving Tuesday’s encouraging people to move money around on different days rather than being additive. Uh, we’ve done extensive data analysis on this and you know conclusively that giving Tuesday is indeed providing a net list and giving. So, you know, I think the concern that you’re simply moving the donor from December 31st to December December 3rd is pretty misplaced. I think instead, it’s best to think of giving Tuesday as as an opportunity to be more experimental as an opportunity to be more collaborative, not to use the buzzword, but as an opportunity to beam or innovative. I think that these are all muscles that be non-profit community really, really needs to flex its an opportunity to become more more digitally literate on fluent and and again, I think that that’s the muscles that the non-profit world needs. TTO play. So we see a lot of money being raised. Obviously, on the first e-giving Tuesday, we were able to count $10,000,000 being raised online, and they were able to count because, as we all know, data and the sexual notoriously poor and were able to count simply on aggregate total of the different transactional platforms to give us numbers and we add them all together. So that was 10,000,000 in 2012 and it was north of 400,000,000 this past e-giving Tuesday. And that’s that’s $400,000,000 that is made up of gifts, on average size just over $100. So we’re not talking big philanthropy here. We’re talking the grassroots e-giving. Our data also indicates, but be, uh, about 1/4 of giving Tuesday. Donors are new and about 75% are consistent, so it’s an opportunity both to rally your supporters that you have already and also to engage new ones so that sense of experimentation is often around. How could we speak to people in a new way that really gets them engaged with our cause or our issue? It means playing with a lot of traditional assumptions. And what I see a lot of is sort of operating, making decisions based on quote unquote best practices. That might have been true 10 years ago, even five years ago. That simply aren’t true now. And so I think it’s a really good opportunity. Just start from the ground floor, right? If you if you didn’t thank you. If you thought you didn’t know anything about donorsearch gauge Mint or stewardship, what would be the things that you would try? WAY have over 80% of our participating non-profits report to us that they use the day to try something new. To me, that’s a big metric of success. Even if they don’t make their goals because trying something new, that sense of experimentation bye collaboration. I mean reaching out to other organizations to look at them as mission aligned collaborators rather than competitors, as we so often do. We see a lot of that around giving Tuesday, and it really requires taking a step out of your comfort zone. But the lessons learned from things like that and the new muscles being strengthened, our things that benefit and organization all year round. Once you once you learn new lessons, you can’t unlearn them. So we don’t think of giving Tuesdays. Just how much money can you raise on this one day? But really, how can you think differently about engaging people around your mission, right? Not just around your bottom line, but really reasoned that you are the reason that you exist. The thing that you were here, the tackle okay. And the sector has been talking a lot about for years about collaboration. I I’ve heard it Mawr in grants, funding applications, clap teamwork, collaboration with other non-profits. But you’re talking about it in the digital space. So it’s it’s it’s billing over From from what I thought was the genesis of it, which was foundations wanting to Seymour collaboration. Yeah, I mean, when I when I talk about the kind of collaboration I see on giving Tuesday as far more than digitally, you know, we see groups of arts and culture organizations, groups of immigrants, rights organizations, groups, of women’s health organizations are looking out for each other to try to really Coke create not just a fundraising campaign, but really a storytelling campaign and awareness raising campaign. So it becomes less about how much can we raise versus them? Where’s our logo gonna go? How much credit are we going to get? And much more about we all exist to tackle this same mission. How creative can we get in telling a story about why this cause is so important? So I draw a real distinction between transactional collaboration, which is much more along the lines of I’ll scratch your Back, you scratch mine and transformational collaboration, which really involved taking the strength of different organizations and, frankly, different people. Right, because all of this stuff is actually driven by human thought organizations and bringing them together to create something entirely new. So I’m very in favor of that latter part of that lot of definition of collaboration, which also carries, Let’s face it, more risk right in giving up some control over exactly what you’re going to do in the first roll over some of your data, things like that on DH. I’m very much of the mind, that kind of risk tolerance, something that we that we very much wanna build If I’m in an organization and I want to raise this with my vice president or my CEO, how do I start to get buy-in? I’m going to find something that e-giving tuesday dot or gets going to help me get some organizational buy-in or get some talking points that I consulted. Thing. Raise the conversation. I think you know, doing this accessible giving Tuesday campaign. First of all, it doesn’t have to be its resource intensive. So that’s one way to get buy-in, right. Any any good leader should be encouraging their employees and not just only their senior employees, but all of their employees to really think creatively and to try new things and have some tolerance for failure. So I think trying something new on giving Tuesday can can be a pretty light lift financially, and that’s one way Teo that’s one way to sell it. Pointing to the data is another way, right? This is This is something that’s raising people a lot of money that’s forcing people to think different organizationally. That’s become so much greater than just a fund-raising Day that you know the reasons to try it are ample, and the reasons not to are few. It’s not going to do If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. We’re not about every single person participating e-giving Tuesday. But I think if you do go on giving Tuesday website way, always say there’s no such thing as stealing and giving Tuesday. There’s only joyful replication, so we way absolutely encouraged people go online. Read the hundreds of case studies that you’ll find their fund-raising case studies non sun grazing case studies, collaborative case studies, community foundation case studies and go on and on and on corporate, You know, houses of worship and find something that works for someone else and try it so it should be an opportunity to innovate. It shouldn’t be crusher to innovate, right? People should feel a sense of, ah, a sense of adventure when they embark on getting to a campaign. And I think one of the reasons that giving Tuesday is so sticky for people I mean real people, regular people, not sector people is because it has a very celebratory overtone right e-giving Tuesday is not about morning. All of the weighty issues that we all have to deal with it out, celebrated in our ability to make an impact on them. And so if you see all the photos we have the privilege of seeing from all over the world, we’ll see over and over again. Is Thies peace with pictures of people together and looking really happy? So there’s something about this sort of communal right giving as a human community that is very sticky to people. And I think that organizations do the best when they leverage that fact. Can you share a story? I know I’m putting on the spot. One of the one of the collaborative stories. Maybe it’s ah, couple of medium size non-profits. Anything come to mind that you can share so we could take this out of the abstract? Sure, although I hate to do it just there are so many. But I will take a couple of examples and before you do that, I will also say along the lines of selling it internally. Okay. Another misconception about giving Tuesday is that big organizations like multi national you know, huge budget non-profits do better than small and medium sized non-profits, and that is emphatically not the case. In fact, small and medium sized non-profits tend to do better, then huge non-profits, and I’m I’m quite sure that the reason for that is first of all, those. Those small non-profits can often tell Justus compelling a story, but also they often have the ability to be more agile. They left weighted down by bureaucracy, so they’re often idea they’re often able to just sort of put an idea out there, give it a try without having to run it through multiple layers of approval. Rating is important. That’s important for people to know. So one example that comes to mind is there’s a small community foundations in a town called Bethel, Alaska, which has, if I’m not mistaken, 12 area non-profits. Now this town is is the administrative hub for a series of native Alaskan villages that surrounded It has won four way stop, and a few years ago, on employee at that community foundation, not even the most senior employees decided to do a collaborative effort that brought together all of vessels non-profit. And so they did a volunteer campaign where people stood outside of that four way stop all day in a sub xero temperatures, and they gathered donations from passing motorists talking about their area, non-profits and all of the good they do. And then they divided that money equally between those non-profits. So that was an entirely new model and also just amazing story of leadership. That young woman is entrepreneurial and she is creative, and she was able to, you know, put this game changing idea out there. And so the fact that that could be implemented in a town like vessel and also in let’s say, the entire state of Illinois or New York or Arkansas is exactly what we had in mind when we created giving Tuesday as an idea that could really be adapted to anyone or any town or anything or any cause. One collaborative story that I really loved. Tony. There was a group of women’s health organizations in Wisconsin that had always been competing against each other for donors. Ellers we see so often that’s pretty much the default in the sector. And instead of doing that, they decided Teo again do this collaborative campaign. It was not about their their individual P and l’s. That was not about their individual brands But that was about the mission that they were trying to serve collaboratively rights and sew up. That seems so obvious, but I think often mission can become subsumed to brand. So these these organizations were all trying to help women in various ways. They got a local tavern to devote space to them tohave an awareness raising party, basically and fundraiser. And then they had that they got a ton of people came and they again distributed the funds equally. We also see models where organizations will come together, do a collaborative storytelling campaign, and then fundez goto directly to the whatever organization people want to donate too. So it doesn’t have to be that sort of equal divvying up of the pot. It doesn’t have to be anything right. It could be whatever a group of organizations decides hyre to co create together on DH more entrepreneurial better. In my opinion, this is a thank you. These this excellent storytelling in news for our listeners because they’re in small and midsize non-profits and your your larger behemoth organizations are are going to be to your point. First of all, it’s going to be difficult. And then in the end. It’s probably gonna not be so successful anyway, even if they’re even if you can overcome hurdles in willingness to collaborate. But but the small organizations, they have that agility. You’re right. They’re not so deep. And they can. They can knock on the door of another local organization or one you know, many states away, but you know, digitally, they can come together. Um, that so very good news for our listeners. Yeah, you’re exactly right. And then a big priority for us here. Tony is going to be too, too very intentionally Try to create more of those kinds of coalitions, even at a global level. Like so, even seeing organizations that are devoted to social justice of various types coming together to form interconnected network. Because we’ve seen how incredibly useful and productive and inspiring that is among the networks that have already been created with e-giving Tuesday if you can imagine an idea being born in Taiwan and then being implemented in Tanzania within the same two weeks, fan, if we created more of those kinds of network, imagine how radically change and improve the sector. How do you encourage that that international part elaborations about your first question, you know, why does e-giving. Tuesday Nida Core leadership team? I think part of what we what we exist to do is to set a culture and a set of behavioral norms and expectations within the broader giving Tuesday community on a big part of those norms and expectations are that we are as generous within as we are without. So the philanthropic community is often far less still in profit, inside itself, right inside, inside the bubble and with with each other with our what should be our colleagues. Then we are out into the world. And so our network of global leaders, for example, are connected every day, every single day of the year, not just about giving Tuesday. They consider it an obligation to share good ideas and things that have worked with the others in that community, and they find joy and reward in seeing those ideas picked up by others. So there’s no sense of I’m going to do something that works, and then I’m going to afford that ideas so that it only works for me. There’s a sense of I want to see this popping up everywhere because it’s because it’s done so well, we just have a couple minutes left. What are you alluded to? Outdated best practices. Could you, uh, identify a couple of those? Take a couple of those off that you think we’re holding on to need mistakenly. Yeah, sure. And, you know, I’m sure people will be very annoyed with me, but, uh, so one would be the conflict of donor fatigue. I think what I’ve seen, you know, from my observation and from the analysis that we’ve done of the data that we have available to us, donor-centric has become more of an excuse then a fact within the sector. Right? So you don’t see the corporate world worrying that it’s selling too hard. You don’t see the corporate thing that they’re making. They’re asking people to buy and buy again and by again, Right. But you do see that same worry in the sector that we’re over asking that people give. But then they get tired of giving quite on the contrary, our our observation and our own analysis find much more than generous. People are generous. They give over and over again. And they gave in multiple ways. And so you know when you look at giving Tuesday 2017 right? What you saw was ah, fall. That was a series of basically terrible things happening. There was a Hurricane Maria. There was Hurricane Harvey, that was, you know, any number of a natural disasters and people were giving after each one of those. And then they gave again in record amounts on giving Tuesday. So we do see some disturbing trends of e-giving going down. But we do see also these really hopeful trends of generous people giving and giving in multiple ways. The second outdated idea I think that I would raise is this idea that people give either in one way or another. So the way that that worry is currently manifesting in the sector is Oh, my gosh, people are giving so much to their neighbours kapin surgery on an individual cat with a crowd funding site that they’re not going to give anymore to non-profits. That seems to be a kind of logical reasoning, but we don’t see it and we don’t find it in our own numbers. On the contrary, what we’ve found is that he who gives the surgery are more likely to get non-profits because they are generous people and generous people give and they give in multiple ways. So I think, you know, back to your reference to new power everything has changed about the way that people engaged about the way that people communicate and about the way that people care about causes. And we need to pay such close attention to those huge ground 12 and tidal shifts so that we know what’s actually happening and react accordingly rather than do things based on the way people communicated and connected and engage her causes back in the day. All right? Or should we have to leave it there? That’s perfect. Thank you so much. Uh, so welcome. Thank you. Pleasure and perfect timing. Asha. Caryn. See, People think this all happens, but this is all planned out. This show was produced, for God’s sake Current. She’s CEO e-giving Tuesday doing that full time. Starting July 1st, you’ll find her at Radio Free Russia and you’ll find giving Tuesday and all the resources and the tool kit everything she’s talking about at e-giving tuesday dot or GE And I love seeing female CEOs. So congratulations again. And Asha, Thank you. Very much look forward to having you back in October. Thanks, Tony. And I do buy. Wonderful. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’re accountants, for God’s sake. You know what they do? Do you need one? Do you need help with your 9 90? Do you need a review of your books? And maybe it’s not a full audit? Um, you know who to talk to. It’s you goto wagner cps dot com to start, and then you talk to the partner. You eat each tomb who’s been a guest of times two or three on DH. He will tell you honestly whether brechner is appropriate for what your accounting needs are. So it started at Wagner cpas dot com. Now time for Tony’s take to summertime is planned. Giving planning time. I think this is an ideal time to give thought to either moving your game up in plan giving or um, for lots of small and midsize shops. It might be starting your plans giving program, which I’m always evangelizing and advocating for summertime is good time for planning. You can get your CEO tto take your proposal on the beach with her or read it on the plane. It’s a little slower time. I mean, it’s not dead. That was, I think that’s sort of outdated, you know, summertime dead time, but you have a little slower time. You can give thought to what you want to do, what you want to pitch to get your plan giving program started. And, of course, I advocate always starting with simple charitable bequests. The marketing and promotion of GIF ts by will so use summer time so you can rule out in the fall. Or maybe it’s a January rollout. But use this time to, ah, to advantage for planned e-giving planning and is more about that in my video, which is at tony martignetti dot com. And that is Tony’s Take you. Now let’s talk about Candid Sam. We have a guest. They are Jacob Harold. He’s executive vice president of Candid, the Data Platform for Civil society. He was president and CEO of guide Star. Jacob has worked at the Hewlett Foundation, the Bridge Span Group, the Packard Foundation, Rainforest Action Network and Greenpeace Yusa. He’s at Jacob. See, Harold, I hope we find out with C. C. Is for and candid is that candid dot or GE and www dot candid dot or GE and also a way of Brad Smith. He’s the president of Candid. He was president of the Foundation Center. He’s been at the Oak Foundation in Geneva and the Ford Foundation. He’s on the board of the Tinker Foundation and the advisory board of the United Nations Trust Fund for Human Security. Gentlemen, welcome to non-profit radio. Welcome back to both of you. Got to be here. Yeah. Great feedback. Thank you. Thank you. Brad. Uh, Harold Jay Jacobs. I’m sorry, Jacob. What’s the What’s the C for in your middle name? What’s your middle name? The C is for Christopher, my eldest uncle. Okay, Jacob. Christopher. Harold. But he’s just at Jacob. See Harold. Ah. All right. Um, I feel like we should start with Brad, the president of Candid. This all this all emerged in February of this year. Uh, what’s going on? A candid bread. Well, first of all, yes, it emerged as a 1st February 1st, but it’s been a decade in the making. The original conversations about this actually started in shortly after the recession in two thousand 9 2000 Can, uh, we started a series of deliberate conversations between the CEOs of both organizations at that time was Bob latto Huff from Guide Star, and we began to see a week collaborate together, commissioned a study into 2012 in-kind consultants to make the case for to bring the two organizations together at that time. The advice. That’s not so fast, but here’s what you can do to collaborate. We did that. We learned a lot about each other, establish a lot of trust among our teams and brought back to consultants in 2017 to take another look. This time they said, full speed ahead. Go for it. So 2018 we we barton long process involving both boards, uh, to do the pre work toe. Actually bring the two organizations together and we inked the deal on January 31st and launch Candid January February 1st on What? Why the name Candid? Yeah, that’s a lot of people ask that question. Which is good, right? I mean, that’s what the name should D’oh! Okay, we didn’t want to call the organization buy-in Foundation Center because, well, that would not be that wouldn’t that wouldn’t have been fair to guide Star That would not have been fairly crowdster. So exactly one. What the foundation center did already wasn’t really captured adequately by the name. GuideStar, in a sense, might not have been fair to foundation center, but would really drove. It wasn’t external professional branding process, that consultant. They did a survey of the staff and surveys stakeholders and the South overwhelmingly decided We need a new name going to leave the past behind and be an organization for the future. And we began to look around at all the names out there in philanthropy, and they’re all the centre for this center. For that, they’re all effective. They’re all sort of similar, and they started to throw at us one word names and the one they threw out there, which he sort of corrects our heads and candid. I was the one that ended up sticking for a lot of reasons. One, because it’s a really word that one was made in. The last words I write to it actually evokes the history of both organizations and our approach to information, which is to be candid about the real information about the sector to really show the sector as it is. So the people in the sector can can do good and make the world a good as it could be. Um, see, So Jacob what? What is the the advantage for non-profits? Our audience is small and midsize shops. How will they benefit from the new from candid? Well, you know, for the first year, you know, from the perspective of a small to midsize non-profit, not a latto current change. Both of the parent organizations programs are continuing, and we’re trying to strengthen them. But over the long term, we think that together we’re going to be able to serve the field as a hole in I’m totally new ways, and I’ll mention a couple. One is to provide a multidemensional view of the work of trying to create social good. What’s happened in the past. We’ve had these fragmented databases grant information over here, information about non-profits over their information about social indicators in 1/3 place, and we believe with databases and resource is and networks of the two parent organizations, GuideStar in Foundation Center. That candid can offer that full of you. Um and that’s gonna be important for small non-profits that don’t have the resource is to constantly hyre consultants to God and do a ton of research or don’t necessarily have the network’s toe have connections, too. The biggest foundations or, you know, the partners that might allow them to do more together. Um, and we also think that the set of resource is that the two organizations provided, um, can be presented in a way that’s just easier for non-profits access organized in a way that that really brings to the top. What’s most important? That’s one thing. The next thing is that by bringing the two organizations networks together, we think we can begin to weave together many of the different fragmented activities around the field. And for a small to medium sized non-profit, the most concrete example is filling out a proposal for foundation funding. But right now, if you were applying to 10 foundations, you’re probably filling out 10 proposals that are all different from each other but are actually asking a lot of the same questions on. And there’s a ton of waste in that process. And not only is their waist i’ma non-profit side, it makes it harder for foundation’s tto. Learn and compare with their peers. And when you look at the networks that Guide Star brings with some of the major technology platforms Google, Facebook, Amazon or major national donor advised funds. Fidelity, Vanguard, Schwab. And then you look at the network that foundation center has with local partners all around the country and indeed, all around the world, hundreds of them where their actual training’s actual relationships. You have a combination of bricks and clicks of a cyber network and human network that we think it’s really powerful. And so we believe that together we’re going to be positioned to begin to establish some common systems of how information flows around the social sector, not making judgments about one organization versus another, but just creating some efficiency in how people learn and how they share their story as an organization. Will we be seeing new new new tools and databases and similar to the Teo well, the foundation directory or the 9 90 offerings that Guide Star has? Will What what’s What’s plan? So right now we’re going through a process of trying to really understand each other’s tools in a much deeper way. Um, we certainly both parent organizations knew the other organizations core tools. We didn’t know him from the inside. So we’re going through that process right now. All of that functionality needs to continue because the ability to find a foundation or I learned about a non-profits programmatic objectives is going to continue R sort of medium term opportunities begin to weave them together so that we can, in one interface, begin to see how these different types of information interact. Um, there are some brand new products that we’re looking at. I’ll give one example is give lists, which are lists of non-profits recommended by experts or that reflect the portfolio of giving of a given foundation. There a number of other ways to generate them. Um, and that’s a tool that we’re that we’re working on right now. But the truth is, right then we have a lot of separate tools. What’s most important is to create a user experience that’s easy for people, and that helps them do their jobs better. So that may mean overtime, just like in the this combination of two organizations that we built that we blend together some of those tools, but keep the core functionality just make it easier to use. Tony, I think it’s, you know, it’s important. Both organizations have you No one through the the Syrians of you, you tell them I work in foundations dunaj, murcott, GuideStar. And usually they know you were sort of one thing. Like I’d say, Oh, yeah, I get nine nineties there or, uh, foundations that are in your foundation director online. Individually, we do so much more than that. So it’s taking all that so Muchmore putting it together, focusing and making much more tighter building synergies between the existing products and services, then building some new ones on top of that. But most important is making it really easy and clear for the user howto access. Exactly what that non-profit Exactly what that foundation social entrepreneur individual donor needs to do what they want to do in the world. Yeah, Andi, I’m glad you mentioned individual donor. This is Guide Star has been a wonderful, important resource. I think 10,000,000 users last year, Jacob. So this is all coming together for individual donors, too. So it’s so it’s ah, holistic in that in that respect that it’s it’s all elements of the community as well as people who are supporting it. A cz well as institutions that are supporting it. Yeah, way talk. You know, we sort of all state non-profit sexually say philantech sector. I think we’re all struggling for exactly what you call the sector. I mean, sometimes I hear it candid. We’ve been, you know, talking about the social sector. Because in today’s world, you have non-profit. You have individual givers. You have social entrepreneurs. You have be corpse. You have corporate social mance ability. You have a mission or impact investing. You have a lot of different kinds of organizations and individuals. They’re using a lot of different mechanism to create good in the world. And that is something that we feel as a combined organization. We can capture and synthesize and put out a really powerful way. All right, we’re going to take We’re gonna take our last break standby text to give. They’re five part email. Many course dispels myths around mobile giving. Earlier, Asher was dispelling myths around fund-raising. These do not mobile. Giving these these gifts do not have to be small gift. They could be in the hundreds. They don’t need to go through the donors phone company. That’s one way of doing it, but you don’t have to do it that way. And phone companies typically put a cap on these gifts. That’s why the misconception that they have to be small double digit gifts to get the email. Many course from text to give you text. NPR November Papa Romeo to 444999 I want to do the live listener love and and there is a lot of it. We’ve just going to go down the list of alternating between abroad and domestic. Young San Young, San Korea, Korea On your haserot comes a ham Nida Live listener loved their Henderson, Nevada, Tampa, Florida New Bern, North Carolina. Special, of course. Teo New Bern. Close to where I live, Washington, DC Reid City, Michigan. San Francisco, California. Brighton, Massachusetts. And Hanoi, Vietnam. Sand Salvador, El Salvador. I think that’s new. San Salvador. Welcome. Live love to you, Palestine. We can’t see specific region. We just know there’s a listener in Palestine, New York, New York. We have multiple and Brooklyn New York. Where’s Bronx? Queens? Staten Island. They’re not checking in today. Uh, but that’s all right. We’ve got Manhattan and Brooklyn live love to each of our ah, live love goes out to each of our live listeners. And, of course, the podcast Pleasantries toe are over 13,000 listeners in small and midsize non-profits, where they’re an executive director, fundraiser boardmember consultant to non-profits. That’s sort of the declining proportion that you each bear to our audience. The pleasantries air with you. I’m glad that you’re listening on the on the time shift in the podcast when it fits into your schedule. So glad that you’re with us. Pleasantries to our podcast listeners. We have, Ah, we have but loads more time, actually. For for Candid with Jacob Christopher, Harold on Brad Smith, Bradley Case Smith Don’t be formal. Let’s see well, some of the materials from Promise that Candid will further increase transparency and collaboration. Nasha and I were just talking about collaboration around giving Tuesday. Brad, how is this? How is candid going toe foster collaboration among entities within within our community? Well, you know, if you start to think about it, the two most important things to know if you’re going to collaborate our first of all sort of the lay of the land who is doing what? Where let’s say you’re under certain charter schools, you’re interested in animal rescue. You’re sitting human rights, whatever you need to know, and for a specific geography where you wantto work, who’s already working there and where the resources are flowing. And then the second thing you want to know is, Well, what to those that are already working on this issue? Know about it. If you don’t know those two things, you’re you’re likely to put your money where you can see they’re not needed or it won’t be effective. And if you don’t really know what people have already learned, you’re basically gonna be recreating the wheel. So with the vast resource is that both organizations bring to the table of candid, we’re going to be able to actually for geography issues and causes. So you, who’s doing the work on the ground? The different flows of money that air coming metoo support that work where there’s probably more money than I should be going where there’s not enough money and when there’s no money at all, and also by by capturing the outcomes and output to these organizations through our profile program, the research and evaluations and case studies who are issue lab resource. We’re also going to be able to tell you what’s working and what’s not. So you could really hit the ground running and figure out who the best partners are for you work. You know, the lack of collaboration in our sector in our sector is what keeps it from being more than the sum of its parts of the world. Needed to be more than the sum of its parts. You can pull all this all this together breath. We can pull it together. We’re already putting together quite a bit of it, obviously. You know, for some, geography is more difficult than the other. And we have global ambitions. We already have a lot of global relationship, do a lot of global work. Obviously, no one’s ever going to be comprehensive for the entire world. We have a really good shot at being pretty close to a conference on a lot of this information in the US. Okay. Okay. Uh, and of course takes time to develop this with the expertise and the data. The data gathering are, um oh, and and I apologize. Uh, your Bradford Smith, not Bradley got that wrong for that that happens all the time, But most people just call me Brad. I know. Well, that’s what I’m doing. But you could’ve corrected me. I would have been offended. Redford Cat. Okay, um, now I see lots of offices. Um, are those the old those of the foundation Centre offices in New York? Williamsburg, Virginia, Washington, DC, San Francisco, etcetera. Those those foundation centre offices? No, they’re actually have both offices. We had overlap in way have overlap in Washington, D C. And in the Bay Area. And we’re consolidating those into single offices in both places. And the other locations are either foundation center locations or, in the case of Williamsburg, where guys start has the bulk of its tech and customer support step. Okay. Okay. Um, Jacob, I wouldn’t ask you last time you were on several years ago, it was talking about the the overhead myth letter that you and I, Ken Berger and Art Taylor had signed as a CEO’s of ah, Charity Navigator and the Better Business Bureau. Wise giving alliance. Do you feel like way overcome that now? Are we gotten past the the anxiety that was Experian that donors were experiencing about overhead and the overweighted focus that some donors were putting on overhead. Are we past that now? I wish I could say we were, um so I don’t think so. I do think, though, in the last few years we’ve made some real progress. At least the nature of the conversation I hear within the sector has completely transformed the assumptions that non-profit leaders are making the way that some of the data platforms talk about and share information. Even the way the journalists address these issues, I think has shifted. But I think we have a long way to go to really have that message get into the minds of donors we keep in mind just in the U. S. We’re talking about 100,000,000 people. Um and we have decades of having reinforced this this false idea that the administrative cost ratio was a proxy for the quality of Ah non-profit. So I’m hopeful, but I also recognize it’s gonna take a while and a few other things that are going to be necessary if we’re going to get to that future where donors are really paying attention to results in potential and not an inappropriate accounting ratio And the most important thing is for non-profits to proactively offer an alternative to say I don’t want to be held accountable by this accounting ratio. I want to be held accountable according to results against my mission. And I define that as X, y and Z, and I really does put the onus on non-profits to articulate whatever numbers they think makes sense for their strategy in their mission. Um, and this is something that I think that candid will be especially well positioned to facilitate. We’ve already had 71,000 non-profits achieved transparency seal on Guide Star, which is now part of the Candid Portfolio, with many, many thousands of those providing specific quantitative, programmatic metrics that we can focus on instead of looking at, um at the administrative cost ratio and then, increasingly, some of our platform partners. He’s, you know, big technology companies in Silicon Valley and elsewhere are really thinking about how they might be able to help distribute that information as well. So I see a path to a future where the overhead myth is truly dead. But I think we still have a ways to go. All right, Jacob. Any any bitterness that that Brad is the CEO on your the executive vice president. Any lingering bitterness there? I mean, of course. Of course not. You know, Brad and I have known each other for a decade on, and we we have a pretty good sense of our strengths and weaknesses. And, you know, I think we both think that the two of us can each play important leads in this new organization, but that you need to have a division of labor on DSO. Brad is the chief executive. He’s leading the organization, and my primary task is to really think through the long term vision and strategy for candidate. We’re calling it candid 2030. Um, we’re really trying to think about big technology trends, big social trends and how those match up with our current capabilities, what we need to build, what we could accomplish over the next decade. So a lot of my attention is on that. But on that long term, um, and that’s really only possible, because I can count on Brad as he, you know, make sure that candid as an institution is coming together and, you know, becoming the institution. It we think it could be. All right, Brad, we still have a couple minutes left together. What else you want us to know about? Candid. That I haven’t asked you. Well, first of all, just, you know, a few things we learned from this. I mean, I think there’s a lot of interest in organizations in the nonprofit sector emerging, combining, working together. There’s a sense sometimes that there’s too much duplication. What organization doesn’t know what the other one’s doing and a lot of people are sort of seeing this is is really kind of an inspirational story because first of all, the idea came from us. I was a thunder for years. Jake, You know, I worked at a Ford Foundation Jacob murcott Hewlett Foundation and we, we, you know, probably presided over our share of shotgun weddings right where we basically used grants to tell non-profits they needed to work together or submerged. And those seldom really are successful. I think one of the keys to success of this is inspiration really came from the two organizations. The second thing is the thinking of Jacob mentioned taking up have known each other in a lot of different roles. They could was my program officer right When I was foundation center, he came and he did his first White Glove inspection tour, a cz, the program officer from the Hewlett Foundation to see if we’re worthy of continued support. Now we’re working together in this relationship, but that really establishes a foundation. The third thing is, the we learned to work together is organizations are tech. Teams are marketing our sales different kinds of teams through specific confidence building projects. Before we decided latto actually combine the two and then the last is the role of incredibly strong, dedicated board that you asked the question about you know who the CEO is. All those things were negotiated early on by the board, Um, and they had to master an enormous amount of information about the both organizations in order to go through those negotiations and did a fantastic job. So there’s a whole back story to this. What I think has a lot to learn from in terms of how these things work in the future for the sector. I like the idea that you’re you’re walking the walk in terms of merger and collaboration, Jacob, we have we have about two minutes left. Anything you know, you’d like to like to add? You sure? You know, I think it’d be good to just talk about division of Labor for the field as a whole. Um, and you know that a meeting a few days ago with a number of partner organizations, and we’re we’re talking about the need to figure out where and when do we defer to each other? Um, and that there are lots of topics where candidates Not the expert, um, say board governance of non-profits. And we want to defer to our partners at board source on that, um, we may have something Teo bring, but we we recognize that they’re playing a role, and we want to support that. And similarly, we hope that the field will look at us and say when it comes to questions of organizing data, which often can be really boring. But it turns out a really important. We hope that the field will embrace, um, things like data standards that we propose and know that if we are suggesting that these air the 10 questions we need to ask about a particular topic that we put a lot of thought into figuring that out and that we hope others will adopt that language. And the flip side of that is that that puts the onus on candid to really be accountable to the field and to really listen to the field and to ensure that the voices of those who are impacted by our decisions are heard and those voices are folded into the decisions we’re making. So we really do hope that the field will help us succeed, Um, by adopting some of the standards and tools that we’re putting forward. Um, and we also hope that the field expresses what it needs so that we can listen to make sure that we make the best choices possible. Alright, Tony, your international listeners heard there’s quite a few out there We are. We’ll have more and more information of that kind would be talking about tonight, um, from around the world, Southeast Asia, South Asia, Africa, Europe, Latin America. We have strong partnerships. We’re going to develop more, and it’s an important part of the future because, you know, this is a a increasingly globalized world we live in and are the information we provide. You have to take account of that. All right, that’s Bradford Case Smith. He’s the president of Candid. Andi with him. Jake of Christopher Harold, executive vice president of Candid. You find Jacob at Jacob. See Harold and Candid is at candid dot or GE and www dot candid dot org’s Gentlemen. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Alright, pleasure. Good luck and good luck. Okay. Next week, we’re gonna have more smart tech gift guests from 19 and t. C. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuant by Wagner SEPA is guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to 444 999 Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Label, which is a line producer, shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy. And this cool music is by Scott Stein You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great oppcoll. You’re listening to the Talking alternative network. Good. You are listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in sometime potentially ater. 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