Heather Burright: Performance Improvement
Do you want to get the best out of your teams? That means getting the best from each player. Heather Burright recommends 360 Degree Feedback and she takes you full circle. She’s CEO of Skill Masters Market. (This originally aired on August 9, 2021.)
Listen to the podcast
Audio Player
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!I love our sponsor!
Donorbox: Powerful fundraising features made refreshingly easy.
We’re the #1 Podcast for Nonprofits, With 13,000+ Weekly Listeners
Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.
Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
View Full Transcript
Transcript for 661_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20231009.mp3
Hey, tony, this week it’s performance improvement. Do you want to get the best out of your teams? That means getting the best from each player. Heather Burright recommends 3 60 degree feedback and she takes you full circle. She’s CEO of skill masters market. This originally aired on August 9th, 2021. On Tony’s take two, [00:01:12.64] spk_0:
one from the [00:01:46.44] spk_1:
archive were sponsored by donor box. Outdated donation forms blocking your supporters, generosity. Donor box, fast, flexible and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit donor box dot org. And by Kela grow revenue, engage donors and increase efficiency with Kila. The fundraisers crm visit Kila dot co to join the thousands of fundraisers using Kila to exceed their goals. Here is performance improvement. [00:02:13.66] spk_0:
It’s my pleasure to welcome Heather Bur Wright, she is founder and CEO of Skill Masters Market, creating dynamic people centric solutions that drive business goals. She has 15 years of experience identifying core competencies that are needed to see real results and creating the learning strategies needed to develop them. The company is at skill masters market dot com and Heather is at Heather Burright. Heather. Welcome to nonprofit radio. [00:02:22.80] spk_2:
Hey, tony, thanks for having me. It’s a [00:02:37.38] spk_0:
pleasure. Absolute pleasure we’re talking about, we’re talking about performance improvement and you use this tool called 360 degree feedback. So we’re gonna start with the basics. What’s an overview of 360 degree [00:03:07.78] spk_2:
feedback? Yeah, absolutely. Um So 360 degree feedback, a 3 60 assessment is a great way to get feedback. It’s exactly what it sounds like to get feedback with that 360 degree view. So you can invite people like your supervisor, your peers, your direct reports, um other colleagues or partners and you can get anonymous feedback all in one place and then you have some good comparison data. So you can see how you’re being perceived. Uh There’s also a self uh survey as part of that. So you can compare how you’re being perceived to how you’re perceiving yourself and it just gives you really rich information. So that as you start to think about, what do I want to work on? Where do I want to invest my time, my energy, my resources, you have some really good data to work with, to help inform that. So you can prioritize your professional development a little better. [00:03:32.26] spk_0:
It sounds very interesting to uh compare what you think of yourself to what others think of you do. You uh have you, you’ve been doing this for many years, you see a lot of um disparities, uh a lot of incongruent between self assessment and the assessment that others have provided. [00:03:54.63] spk_2:
There. There can be for sure. Um I actually, with 3 60 assessments, I feel like you’re [00:03:59.79] spk_0:
living in deep denial. Maybe [00:04:52.28] spk_2:
it happens with 3 60 assessments. I feel like um how you show up to different groups of people can intentionally be different. So what your supervisor sees may be different from what your direct report see or what your peers see and that might be OK. So it’s about taking that information, finding those discrepancies, finding that alignment and then interpreting it uh for your own, your own work, your own lifestyle and, and what, how you wanna be, you know, showing up to all of those different groups. I actually do something and it’s not for, for today’s conversation, but I actually do something called an intercultural development inventory, the I dia qualified administrator for them and that assesses uh intercultural confidence. And there’s actually uh I’ve seen a greater disparity in that assessment than in 3 60 assessment asses which typically assess more general or more common leadership competencies. [00:05:12.82] spk_0:
OK. All right. So in the, in the intercultural intercultural assessment, people perceive themselves as more aware, sensitive conscious than, than they are perceived by others. Not surprised. Yes, [00:05:18.43] spk_2:
we do that a lot. Right. We do. It’s why, for me that’s why, you know, we all think [00:05:24.01] spk_0:
we all think we’re great people. [00:05:26.17] spk_2:
We do and we are right there. We all have great skill sets and things that we can offer the world. But I think if you think about your to do list, right? A lot of us will tend to put too many things on our plate. And then we wonder why we can’t accomplish at all. It’s because our perception is not always matched to our reality. [00:06:04.88] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah. Perception and reality, right can diverge greatly. OK? That could be, I mean, this could be fodder for therapy too. But, but when we’re talking about coaching, because coaching, you know, you need, uh I gather, you need somebody to help you assess all this input that’s coming in. And especially if you’re deeply divergent between what you think and what others think. Uh you know, you, I could see how coaching would be critical so that you don’t jump off a cliff with these results. [00:07:04.51] spk_2:
Yes, absolutely. With 3 60 assessments, I recommend going through the assessment process, which just helps to increase kind of your own self awareness where you are, where you want to be and then working with a coach to help prompt you to action. So, in the awareness phase and you know, you’re taking this assessment process, it’s anonymous feedback. So it’s feedback that you’re not necessarily going get anywhere else. Most people aren’t gonna just walk up to you and say your communication skills are not as good as you think they are. So it’s feedback that you’re not necessarily going to get anywhere else and it can show that those discrepancies in that alignment, um which is really, really helpful, it brings a lot of self-awareness to the table. But then during that coaching session, you can start to identify action, focus on the action that you want to take. So you’re able to identify, you know, which skills are, are most essential to your current role. And how did you do on those skills or which skills are most essential to future role? If you wanna look at it from a future perspective, I know I wanna move into this other position or this other role. And so what skills are gonna be most important there? What do I need to work on to get there? And so you can start to consider what you might need to leverage. What are your strongest skills are? Uh but also what you might need to enhance as you move forward. And then those skills which are identifying with that coach uh can become part of a custom action plan that you have. So again, you’re able to prioritize your professional development a little more effectively. [00:07:47.84] spk_0:
Ok. Um All right. So let’s take a step back. We, we get a little ahead, but that’s ok. Um, where, what’s the, all right. So you’ve already said this is confidential. It’s anonymous. All right. So it’s, it’s really the best information we’re gonna get. Um, it’s from all different, all different networks. So it’s people that are lateral to you, uh, working for you who you work for could be others. I mean, I don’t know, in nonprofits, might you go to, you go to board members? If there’s a relationship there, if there’s some liaison, work there or something, would you go to? Maybe donors, would you, donors, volunteers that the person is working with or is that really not appropriate to ask them to participate in? [00:08:16.89] spk_2:
Yeah, I’ve not seen anybody go to donors, but definitely volunteers if you’re, if you’re working with them in a capacity where they’re going to see those skills at play, right? If they, if you’re not working with them in that way, they wouldn’t make a good feedback provider. [00:08:30.94] spk_0:
Ok. All right. So volunteer. Yeah, donors, that seems like a little much to ask for someone to rate the person that you rate the fundraiser that you work with or something. Ok. Um, so let’s identify the benefits for the organization that would do a 3 60 assessment. [00:09:38.71] spk_2:
Sure. Yeah. So what I love about assessments is that they are strategic uh but also compassionate, human centered, right? So when it comes to leadership development, um professional development is especially important. You want your leaders to be better, you want them to be stronger for your organization and you want them to perform well. So assessing on uh those common leadership competencies, gives a baseline that is both relevant to their work and to your organization and practical. Um But you also, if you think about the human Center piece of it, um your leaders also have dreams, they also have goals beyond just your their role at your organization. And so, uh by having the 3 60 assessment, you’re able to assess those things, those competencies that are important for your organization, but you’re also giving them some ownership and what they do with that information. And so they’re able to tailor the, the action plan that they’re gonna get out of this, they’re able to tailor that based on what their goals are within the organization as well. So whatever they decide to do will benefit the organization, but it will also be tailored to them. And so they, it will benefit themselves, you know, their own development as well. [00:10:00.92] spk_0:
So I’m gonna ask about some outliers ha have you seen cases where the, the assessment was just so bad that the, the organization decided, you know, we, we gotta just let this person go like we just, we can’t, there’s no performance plan, there’s no action, there’s no action worksheet. That’s gonna, that’s gonna, that’s gonna bring this person along. It’s, it’s, it’s just [00:11:07.34] spk_2:
hopeless. Yeah. So I have not, uh my recommendation is not to use it to use a 3 60 assessment in a punitive way. Um And so you would only use a 3 60 assessment. If there’s someone that you want them to develop, you want to see them develop and grow within your organization. Um And in fact, I I recommend that the results are kept confidential between the participant and the coach and that no one else actually gets a copy of those results. I actually get that request a lot at the board level. If it’s the, it’s the CEO that’s going through um the assessment process, the board chair will, will want those results. My recommendation is, is not to do it that way. Um I also get a lot of um requests for the 3 60 assessment to be the performance review and that’s also not a great use of a 3 60 assessment. You wanna do the performance review separately and then one of their goals through that performance review process might be to complete a 3 60 assessment. But again, only if you’re really invested in them growing and developing as a leader, not as a way to, to sort of move them out of the organization, [00:11:32.68] spk_0:
it’s counterintuitive, not using the assessment as a as performance uh evaluation tool. What, what why is that say? Say a little more about why that’s not recommended. [00:12:06.47] spk_2:
Yeah, I think so for me. Um, I think giving the 3 60 assessment to someone that you um believe in and you are valuing their contributions, you’re gonna have a lot better outcome. They’re going to be more honest in the assessment process. Uh, their feedback providers are probably going to be more honest as well and then they’re able to have a good honest conversation with their coach and they’re able to kind of lean into that vulnerability without constantly thinking, I’m gonna get fired, right. It’s actually really good useful information to grow. Um And I would recommend 3 60 assessments for star performers. Um you know, just as much as I would for those that you are looking to develop for a particular reason. [00:12:30.57] spk_0:
Ok. Ok. Um So how do we get started with this uh uh in the, in the organization? I mean, if we’re gonna suppose we’re gonna do this enterprise wide, I mean, that could mean, you know, 456 employees for some listeners, it may mean hundreds of employees. How do we start this? Yeah, where do we start? [00:14:13.63] spk_2:
Yeah. So every organization is different, they’re going to approach it in a slightly different way. Um The I work with a vendor that hosts 3 60 assessments. So those assessments are already created, they’re standard, they exist for um different types of leadership. So whether it’s the, the CEO executive director or um whether it’s more of an di contributor in individual contributor or something in between, they have assessments um that are tailored to each of those different um types of roles within an organization. So I would, you know, first look at um how do you want to roll this out? Um A lot of organizations will start with maybe a senior leadership team to show that they’re, you know, modeling what they, what they, what they would ask of their other staff. Um And so they might start with a leadership team, um have a small group, go through this process and then look at adding some additional staff to that. Um The only thing that you would wanna consider really is um great or fatigue. So if in an organization, you’re going to be asking the same people to provide feedback to multiple people at the same time, um that can get a little bit fatiguing and then they might not be as honest or they might not take as much time um as they go through the assessment because they’re just trying to get through all of them. Uh So you want the readers, the people who are providing the feedback um to feel like they have the time and um you know, the energy to get through those assessments as well. [00:14:32.73] spk_0:
Yeah, because if, if, if there’s a lot of people at the same level and you’re evaluating your peers, right? I mean, you could have to be doing a lot of these. All right. So how do you overcome that spread, spread out the time and give them more time to do. I mean, I suppose you have to do six or eight of these things. [00:14:46.78] spk_2:
I would start with a smaller group and then as that group finishes, you could look at bringing in another group to complete the assessment. [00:15:28.11] spk_1:
It’s time frame break donor box. You’ve heard the testimonials, easy set up fast checkout QR codes simple for your donors and incredible results like you’ve gone to 10, eighteen’s 70% increase in donations. If you’re looking for a fast flexible and donor friendly fundraising platform for your organization. Check out donor box, donor box dot org. Now back to performance improvement. [00:15:31.56] spk_0:
So this is not something that sounds like it can be easily done in house. You, you’re saying you work with a vendor that already has these, these assessment tools published. It sounds like something that would be kind of hard to recreate in house and, and do and do. Well, [00:16:08.09] spk_2:
I think it depends on just the resources of the organization. Uh There are really good off the shelf assessments where you don’t have to spend the money to create something that’s custom to your organization. You can a lot of um a lot of the vendors who offer off the shelf um assessments can also do custom assessments for your organization, but it’s, it’s a fairly resource heavy project um, because you wanna make sure that whatever gets created is statistically relevant. It’s a valid assessment and all of that. And so, um, to do that a lot of times it does take more time and more resources to make it happen. [00:16:25.93] spk_0:
What happens if there’s an outlier in the, in the Raiders, like one person rates somebody so high or so low compared to the other six or eight people. That, that rate what, what happens to those outlier ratings. [00:17:23.67] spk_2:
Yeah, that does happen from time to time. You’ll have somebody who, um, you know, every question just about is really high or really low. Um, you know, I, as a coach, um, I might ask the participant, um, if they have any thoughts about why that might be the case and we might have some conversation around, you know, why someone might be rating really high or really low. It is anonymous. So, unless it’s the supervisor, they’re probably not going to know who said, you know, who it is, that’s rating them that’s out there. Um, but you can have some good conversation that way. Sometimes there’s not, you know, anything that comes to mind that would make someone, um, be completely different than the other radio. And so, um, you know, you’re gonna kind of go with the, with the theme across and so if most people are rating you at a four and then one person at a one, perhaps that one person had one particular experience that they’re, they’re, you know, calling to mind if they’re completing the assessment. And so that’s causing those scores because [00:17:45.64] spk_0:
the person, you, you, you keep their car when they took your parking space to the right, [00:17:52.72] spk_2:
you never know, you never know. Uh And so it’s, it’s information um but it’s not necessarily the focus because the theme is that most people are, are rating you in that four. [00:18:52.95] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Kela increase donations and foster collaborative teamwork with Kela. The fundraisers, CRM maximize your team’s productivity and spend more time building strong connections with donors through features that were built specifically for fundraisers. A fundraiser, Crm goes beyond a data management platform. It’s designed with unique needs of fundraisers in mind and aims to unify fundraising, communications and donor management tools into one single source of truth visit, Kila dot co to sign up for a coming group demo and explore how to exceed your fundraising goals like never before. It’s time for Tonys take two. Thanks, Kate. [00:24:10.82] spk_0:
I’m replaying the Tony’s take two from the show that Heather Burright appeared on. I was talking about sharing non profit radio, but I went into a, a bit of a tangent about waiting tables and sharing tips. Here. It is, sharing is still caring. Who can you share a non profit radio with? I was thinking it could be a lackluster colleague or maybe somebody who’s in another non profit or you know, a friend who works elsewhere who you just happen to know is not up to speed mediocre, lackluster because we’re talking this week about performance improvement. So, whose performance do you want to improve? That’s the person you refer to nonprofit radio. They need to be listening. They got to up their game. They don’t want to be mediocre and lackluster any longer and you don’t want them to be, especially if they work in your shop, they’re dragging you down. It’s like when you used to, did you ever wait tables? Those are waited tables. If, if you did and sharing tips. Oh, that’s the worst. It was just last week. Um I wrapped it up. Yeah, just, just in just uh late July uh no years ago waiting tables and we shared tips, the mediocre people bring you down and you know who they are. You, you know, you can hear them at the adjacent tables. The adjacent station, I was always mediocre at one thing. I was terrible, worse than mediocre. I was always terrible at cappuccinos when somebody ordered a cappuccino. And I had a face that daunting high, highly polished copper machine with the nozzle for the milk and the foam and the, the knobs and the, they gotta press the espresso in right and it’s just the right pressure and the milk has to be the right temperature and this, this machine just scared the hell out of me just to look at the thing. I didn’t even like walking by it. I got, I, I would, I would get, I would get, I would get sweats just walking past it. Let alone, I had to face off with the thing when somebody ordered a cappuccino or God forbid, a table table of four or six. Yeah. Well, all round of cappuccinos. Oh, my God. Every other table in my station is gonna be half an hour late Now while I fight with this machine to get the milk to the right temperature and the foam and the right consistency and the wh cappuccinos my death. I really somebody who wrote a cappuccino. You sure you don’t want a Limoncello. I have a Limoncello on the house give you I’ll give the table around Limoncello. If you will, you alone will just not get a cappuccino. All right. That was my bane as a waiter. But so, so, but that didn’t bring the tips down cause everybody got free drinks because I hardly ever poured once I got smart. Of course, the house didn’t like it but they never knew. Um So you know, so the tips actually were, were better because I was given free drinks for everybody to bribe them away from a single cappuccino. So that aside the uh yeah, the sharing of tips, I hated it. I the, the, the, the, the poor performers were always dragging us down were killing us every night and I could hear them you know, that in low energy they forget what the specials are. They read the specials of their little, their, their parchment paper, little, little note pad because they couldn’t afford to buy a new one because their tips are so low because they’re so poor and they were gonna drag me down with them. Well, first of all I didn’t use the little book. I used to memorize the specials. I never liked looking at that because the thing gets red wine spilled on it. And you know, it’s, it wouldn’t get cappuccino on it because I didn’t know how to make them, but it might get milk on it as I was trying. So the poor performers, the poor performers in your nonprofit, I’m bringing it back. I’m bringing it back. Don’t worry. Uh You know, they’re dragging you down. So you got to refer them to non profit radio. That’s it. You want to raise the level of all the boats. Wait, you want to raise the level of the whole sea. Wait, you wanna raise, you wanna, you wanna raise all the boats, you gotta raise the sea. That’s what it is or the yacht basin. So your organization, you’re non profit, that’s the yacht basin. You gotta, you wanna raise all the boats, you gotta raise the sea. Refer these poor performers to nonprofit radio. That’s the point. That’s where I’m headed. All right, cappuccinos and Limoncello. Who can you refer non profit radio to I’d be grateful. Remember, board members too, if you got any friends, they’re board members. Board members are great listeners. They, they use it to stimulate conversation to stimulate thinking very valuable. Plus anybody who works for a nonprofit naturally. Thank you. Thanks for thinking about it. Who you can refer non profitt radio to? That is Tony’s take two. That is Tony’s take two Kate. [00:24:15.55] spk_1:
You know, dad just got a new espresso and cappuccino machine. So when you come over for the holidays, we’re gonna learn how to make cappuccino. So you can’t, you know, [00:24:38.92] spk_0:
I can practice, I can practice on the, on the, on that machine. All right, I’m telling you those things scared me. It’s got that long tube with the milk that, that the milk has to come out of and steam and froth and the knobs and everything. [00:24:40.94] spk_1:
You’re gonna be an expert by the end of the holidays. [00:24:44.12] spk_0:
Ok. Christmas cappuccinos. I’ll, I’ll be pouring them. All right. [00:24:49.07] spk_1:
We’ve got, we’ve got just about a butt load more time. Let’s go back to performance improvement. [00:25:01.75] spk_0:
And what form do people who are rated, get this information in? WW? Is it something quantitative or is it narrative or both or what, what are they seeing? What’s each person who gets rated seeing? [00:25:34.04] spk_2:
Yeah, absolutely. So, um the vendor that I work with particularly, um and I think this is true of, of other vendors that I’ve seen as well. Um There is data that’s involved. So you will be able to see for each question um how you were rated, you’ll be able to compare those scores by the different R groups. Um A lot of times there is um an opportunity to roll that data up as well, so you can start to see overall what are my strengths and my development opportunities. Um And then there’s typically something um a little more qualitative um included as well where people can kind of open comments, provide feedback and you can spend some time looking at that as [00:25:54.30] spk_0:
well. Ok. Ok. Um And, and let’s talk more about the, the coaching and the, and maybe the work plan that goes along with improving areas that aren’t so strong. Um How long does that last or what? What, what does that look like? [00:26:55.70] spk_2:
Yeah, so um the assessment process itself uh can take a few weeks just to get that feedback. You know, you’re gonna do self assessment, you’re gonna invite your readers, they’re gonna go in, provide their feedback, it’s gonna generate the, the data, the report for you. Um And then the coaching session you want at least one that I would say is the absolute minimum. I thought this was right to go through that data. Um If you’re really looking to, to see that person um that participant make progress on their action plan, so they’re making progress towards their goals, then I definitely recommend looking at a longer term relationship with that coach because they can start to become an accountability partner and they can continue to prompt them to action. They can continue to help them think through how they’re gonna apply what they’re learning on the job. And so there’s just a lot of value there. Um, I would say that about that, um, does vary by organization as well. Um, but if you want to see, you know, those results, um, and see the action being taken. Um I would say at least three months um probably longer to, to watch that behavior start to change. [00:27:33.84] spk_0:
Uh Tell us a story about an organization or it could be a person. Um I kind of like the organization level if you have a story like that, like where you saw, you know, you saw them go through this process and you saw improvement among key people in the organization and they don’t have to be senior leaders, but you saw, you saw improvement, you know, you saw a benefit come out of this, whatever, eight months later, a year later, a year and a half later, you know, share a little story. [00:29:27.05] spk_2:
Yeah. So um for, I guess for anonymity sake, I can share my own story because I have been through the 3 60 assessment process um myself. Um If you like, so I, when I went through the 3 60 assessment process, um some of the feedback that I received was that I needed to use my voice more that I had, um, you know, good ideas when I spoke up and that I needed to, you know, speak up more and make sure that people heard and valued what, you know, whatever it was that I had to say. And it was something that I, it was a piece of feedback that I found very interesting because I felt like in some environments, I was pretty quick to speak up to, you know, take a lead in something um to have my voice heard. And then in other environments, I might be a little less likely to do that. And it just kind of depended on the situation. What um I was on a lot of cross functional project teams at the time. So, you know, what was my role on that project? Who was leading that project, that kind of thing? To me, it all felt very strategic about when I was um using my voice and, and when I wasn’t, but with that feedback, right, that’s information. So with that feedback, I was able to um start to think about how do I want to use my voice? And um when do I want to use my voice and what would it look like or what would it feel like to be heard in, in different settings? And uh through that process, I was able to um more intentionally start pick up um not just in meetings, but also, um you know, one on one with my supervisor and say, you know, hey, I’m interested in this or I wanna know more about this or I think we should do this or whatever the case is. And I was able to start using my voice a little more intentionally. And the within the organization, um and saw from a, from a career perspective, saw my own, my own career start to um open up and, and grow quite a bit from that. [00:29:56.55] spk_0:
And so the feedback you got wasn’t as nuanced as you would have, you would have thought it would be like you said, certain situations, you were deli deliberately reticent to speak up and others, you were more vocal, but the feedback wasn’t that nuanced. [00:30:31.97] spk_2:
Correct, correct. Because if my, if you think about like my peers, they’re seeing me in different environments or uh my partners, I was working on a lot of cross functional teams. So I had partners from all over the organization that were providing feedback. And so depending on which projects I was working on, I might have been leading the project or I might have been just a contributor on the project. And so depending on um what my role was, I was showing up differently in those settings, [00:30:51.04] spk_0:
right? So each people, each person saw you differently. They didn’t, they didn’t see the full breath. But overall, you took it as I should speak up more, I should be more assertive, I [00:30:52.06] spk_2:
guess Yeah, absolutely. And just think about how I’m being perceived as well, right, within a, within a meeting or, um, a team. [00:31:06.28] spk_0:
And then how about developing an action plan? What, uh, what, what do you do that in conjunction with the coach or what ho how does that, how does that look? And how long is an action plan last? [00:32:56.08] spk_2:
Yeah. So I recommend doing that in conjunction with a coach, uh, at least on that first coaching call to have um something in mind that you’re gonna be working towards. So I typically go through kind of the who, what, when, where, why, how questions. So um you know, what is it that you wanna do? What is it that you wanna focus on? Which competency is standing out to you? Which area are you believing that you want to develop in some way? Again, it could be enhancing um or leveraging a strength that could be enhancing something that’s a little bit weaker. But what is it that you wanna work on? And then how are you going to do that? Are you gonna go um to a training? Are you gonna participate in a leadership program? Are you going to, you start listening to podcasts like this one about, you know, whatever topic you’re trying to work on, what is it that you are going to commit to, to develop that particular skill? It could be taking on a different project at work, right? That you know, is gonna challenge that skill set. So um thinking through your options and deciding how you want to develop that skill and then also with that, putting a timeline to it. So when, when are you gonna start, um what are the, you know, milestones that are gonna be along the way? How long will it take you to complete whatever it is that you’re deciding you want to do? Um And then from there, who, who’s gonna help you, who’s gonna help hold you accountable? We know that most people don’t just change automatically. So if you think about the number of people who um don’t uh follow through on their New Year’s resolutions, right? It, it takes more than just knowing that you need to change or even sometimes having a desire to change and so who can help you, who can be that accountability partner for you, um to make sure that you’re working on this goal and, and it could be the coach, but it could be someone else as well. It could be a supervisor, it could be a peer, um a partner, even someone just in your life that’s going to help, um help you, you know, work towards your goals. And so going through some of those questions, you’re able to put together an action plan that includes things like that timeline. How long you’re gonna be working on it? What do we [00:33:21.08] spk_0:
do for the folks who really just don’t take this feedback. Well, maybe there are strengths but they’re not, they’re not acknowledging those or maybe, maybe they don’t have strengths identified or let’s just say it’s objectively, it’s, well forget, um, subjectively it’s taken as very bad, forget how it looks objectively. The, the person is taking it very badly, very hard [00:33:41.46] spk_2:
it happens. [00:33:42.08] spk_0:
What do we do? What do we do? [00:34:27.39] spk_2:
So, you know, a skilled coach will probably do one of two things. I, I believe I’m a skilled coach, but a skilled coach will likely do one of two things. Um, one try to on that call, uh, get to at the, the bottom of that feeling, basically what’s causing it. Why am I getting such a reaction from this information? Um, just trying to understand perhaps there’s something that is triggering the reaction beyond just what’s on, on the, the paper, so to speak. And so having that conversation can actually sometimes move people into a new place, a better place to, to have the conversation that you have wanna have. Um, another option. And, and another thing that a skilled coach might do is just ask to reschedule the call. Um, because sometimes [00:34:36.89] spk_0:
to do what reschedule [00:34:53.58] spk_2:
the call, the coach call, right? Um Because sometimes there’s just something, whatever it is, whether it’s a, uh, a data point or a comment that has been included in the feedback, something just hijacks you and you can’t move past it in that moment, but that doesn’t mean that two weeks from now, one week from now you wouldn’t be able to move past that. And so sometimes having some space can, can be really beneficial. And so just saying, you know what it sounds like, this is not gonna, you know, be a good time for us to have this conversation. Why don’t we reconnect on Tuesday and then you’re giving some, them some space to kind of think through and process what they’re, what they’re learning in the assessment. [00:35:21.60] spk_0:
Ok. I could see how some people could take it hard. [00:35:23.86] spk_2:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Right. There’s that one comment, the comment that [00:35:29.60] spk_0:
like maybe you even thinking, I know who said that. I know who that was. He killed me. [00:35:36.52] spk_2:
Yes. People spend time trying to figure out who said what and it’s not, that’s not the point, right of the assessment and so helping them move past that can, can be part of the, have you had [00:35:48.58] spk_0:
people plead with you to tell you? Oh, come on, who said that? [00:35:51.98] spk_2:
Well, as a coach, I don’t know who’s at it. So [00:35:55.20] spk_0:
it’s anonymous to [00:36:08.79] spk_2:
you. It is, I, I might know uh for the, for the data points, I know which group it came out of and, and they do too, um but not necessarily for the open field comments. Um And so it’s, it’s, you know, you can think about this all day, but it doesn’t mean you’re gonna get it right. And then what if you do, what, then what, you know what’s gonna change for you? How are you going to use that information? So, [00:36:17.88] spk_0:
now I’m, now I’m blowing this up. Like, have there been cases of retaliation where somebody confronted somebody? I know you, I know you’re the one who wrote this. [00:36:26.79] spk_2:
I, I would guess somewhere in the world that perhaps that is the case. Um, but I have not experienced [00:36:42.49] spk_0:
that. All right. No workplace blow ups or confrontations over 3 60 assessments. All right. All right. Um What else, what else would you like us to know? We still got, we got some time left. What like what happened? I asked you that you think folks should know about these 3 60 degree feedback? [00:38:23.26] spk_2:
Yeah, I would just add that. Um So I work with, with nonprofit leaders to help them create scalable learning strategies. And um you know, oftentimes when there is some sort of learning need, some sort of professional development need, we go to training and I create training. So I’m biased. I, I like it. I think it’s a great solution but it’s a solution. And I think pairing any other sort of professional development program, um like a training with a 3 60 assessment is actually even more valuable because if you’re able to assess your skills first and then say, here’s where I need to improve, here’s where I need to focus and then you send them through, say a leadership training, they have that skill set in mind. As they’re going through that training, they’re focused on that particular skill set, whether it’s, you know, communication or relationship building or whatever they’re focused on that, they’re gonna get back out of it and then you’re gonna see some really intentional transformation um because they had the assessment process first. So when I think about creating scalable learning strategies for organizations, it is thinking through that whole process, how can we make sure that we’re being strategic, that the organization is getting what they need? But then also thinking about the individual within the audience. So things like 3 60 assessments combined with formal training, combined with coaching, um can actually be a really effective way to see how people grow and develop. I think, you know, for me, I think people are worthy of investment and then I think investing in your people, make them feel valued and gives them, you know, a new, new skills and a new passion for their work. Um And as leaders in our organizations, we get to create that environment, we get to create those opportunities so that our people can thrive. And so an assessment is one great tool that you can use in conjunction with many other tools to help your your leaders grow and develop. [00:39:02.09] spk_0:
So then by coalescing all the assessment data for all the individual people, you’re saying you can target training enterprise wide that that helps lift lift skill deficits that, that are like common across lots of people in the organization. [00:39:27.21] spk_2:
You can, you can. And even if you have a general leadership program, if your individuals have gone through the 3 60 assessment process, they’re looking to develop particular skills. And so they’re gonna be looking to find that you, you often find what you’re looking for, right? So they’re gonna be looking to find whatever that is in the leadership program. So even if it’s a, a more general program that you’re offering, um or you’re, you know, sending people to the 3 60 assessment, gives that individual information so that they look for that when they’re in that program. Yeah. [00:39:51.41] spk_0:
Right. Right. As you said, right. They’re looking, they find what they’re looking for. Yeah. Absolutely. Ok. All right, we leave it there, Heather, what do you [00:39:53.31] spk_2:
think? That sounds good, tony. Thanks for having me. [00:40:10.16] spk_0:
Oh, it’s my pleasure. Absolutely. Heather Bright founder and CEO of Skill Masters Market. The company is at Skill Masters market dot com and she is at Heather Burright. Thank you again, Heather. Thanks tony [00:40:18.28] spk_1:
next week. Financial Fitness for your board. If you missed any part of this week’s show, [00:40:21.11] spk_0:
I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com [00:41:11.92] spk_1:
were sponsored by donor box, outdated donation forms blocking your supporters, generosity, donor box fast, flexible and friendly fundraising forms for your non profit donor box dot org and by Kela, grow revenue, engage donors and increase efficiency. With Kila, the fundraisers CRM visit Kila dot co to join the thousands of fundraisers using Kila to exceed their goals. Our creative producer is Claire Meer. I’m your associate producer, Kate martignetti. Social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guide and this music is by Scott Stein. [00:41:26.83] spk_0:
Thank you for that affirmation. Scotty be with us next week for nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.
Processed on: 2023-10-09T13:30:45.055Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2023…10…661_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20231009.mp3.766572740.json
Path to text: transcripts/2023/10/661_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20231009.txt
[00:00:40.71] spk_0:
And welcome to tony-martignetti Nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host and the pod father of your favorite abdominal podcast. And I am feeling better about 95% to normal. Oh, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d suffer with leishmaniasis if you infected me with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Here’s our associate producer, Kate with what’s coming?
Hey, tony, this week it’s performance improvement. Do you want to get the best out of your teams? That means getting the best from each player. Heather Burright recommends 3 60 degree feedback and she takes you full circle. She’s CEO of skill masters market. This originally aired on August 9th, 2021. On Tony’s take two, [00:01:12.64] spk_0:
one from the [00:01:46.44] spk_1:
archive were sponsored by donor box. Outdated donation forms blocking your supporters, generosity. Donor box, fast, flexible and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit donor box dot org. And by Kela grow revenue, engage donors and increase efficiency with Kila. The fundraisers crm visit Kila dot co to join the thousands of fundraisers using Kila to exceed their goals. Here is performance improvement. [00:02:13.66] spk_0:
It’s my pleasure to welcome Heather Bur Wright, she is founder and CEO of Skill Masters Market, creating dynamic people centric solutions that drive business goals. She has 15 years of experience identifying core competencies that are needed to see real results and creating the learning strategies needed to develop them. The company is at skill masters market dot com and Heather is at Heather Burright. Heather. Welcome to nonprofit radio. [00:02:22.80] spk_2:
Hey, tony, thanks for having me. It’s a [00:02:37.38] spk_0:
pleasure. Absolute pleasure we’re talking about, we’re talking about performance improvement and you use this tool called 360 degree feedback. So we’re gonna start with the basics. What’s an overview of 360 degree [00:03:07.78] spk_2:
feedback? Yeah, absolutely. Um So 360 degree feedback, a 3 60 assessment is a great way to get feedback. It’s exactly what it sounds like to get feedback with that 360 degree view. So you can invite people like your supervisor, your peers, your direct reports, um other colleagues or partners and you can get anonymous feedback all in one place and then you have some good comparison data. So you can see how you’re being perceived. Uh There’s also a self uh survey as part of that. So you can compare how you’re being perceived to how you’re perceiving yourself and it just gives you really rich information. So that as you start to think about, what do I want to work on? Where do I want to invest my time, my energy, my resources, you have some really good data to work with, to help inform that. So you can prioritize your professional development a little better. [00:03:32.26] spk_0:
It sounds very interesting to uh compare what you think of yourself to what others think of you do. You uh have you, you’ve been doing this for many years, you see a lot of um disparities, uh a lot of incongruent between self assessment and the assessment that others have provided. [00:03:54.63] spk_2:
There. There can be for sure. Um I actually, with 3 60 assessments, I feel like you’re [00:03:59.79] spk_0:
living in deep denial. Maybe [00:04:52.28] spk_2:
it happens with 3 60 assessments. I feel like um how you show up to different groups of people can intentionally be different. So what your supervisor sees may be different from what your direct report see or what your peers see and that might be OK. So it’s about taking that information, finding those discrepancies, finding that alignment and then interpreting it uh for your own, your own work, your own lifestyle and, and what, how you wanna be, you know, showing up to all of those different groups. I actually do something and it’s not for, for today’s conversation, but I actually do something called an intercultural development inventory, the I dia qualified administrator for them and that assesses uh intercultural confidence. And there’s actually uh I’ve seen a greater disparity in that assessment than in 3 60 assessment asses which typically assess more general or more common leadership competencies. [00:05:12.82] spk_0:
OK. All right. So in the, in the intercultural intercultural assessment, people perceive themselves as more aware, sensitive conscious than, than they are perceived by others. Not surprised. Yes, [00:05:18.43] spk_2:
we do that a lot. Right. We do. It’s why, for me that’s why, you know, we all think [00:05:24.01] spk_0:
we all think we’re great people. [00:05:26.17] spk_2:
We do and we are right there. We all have great skill sets and things that we can offer the world. But I think if you think about your to do list, right? A lot of us will tend to put too many things on our plate. And then we wonder why we can’t accomplish at all. It’s because our perception is not always matched to our reality. [00:06:04.88] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah. Perception and reality, right can diverge greatly. OK? That could be, I mean, this could be fodder for therapy too. But, but when we’re talking about coaching, because coaching, you know, you need, uh I gather, you need somebody to help you assess all this input that’s coming in. And especially if you’re deeply divergent between what you think and what others think. Uh you know, you, I could see how coaching would be critical so that you don’t jump off a cliff with these results. [00:07:04.51] spk_2:
Yes, absolutely. With 3 60 assessments, I recommend going through the assessment process, which just helps to increase kind of your own self awareness where you are, where you want to be and then working with a coach to help prompt you to action. So, in the awareness phase and you know, you’re taking this assessment process, it’s anonymous feedback. So it’s feedback that you’re not necessarily going get anywhere else. Most people aren’t gonna just walk up to you and say your communication skills are not as good as you think they are. So it’s feedback that you’re not necessarily going to get anywhere else and it can show that those discrepancies in that alignment, um which is really, really helpful, it brings a lot of self-awareness to the table. But then during that coaching session, you can start to identify action, focus on the action that you want to take. So you’re able to identify, you know, which skills are, are most essential to your current role. And how did you do on those skills or which skills are most essential to future role? If you wanna look at it from a future perspective, I know I wanna move into this other position or this other role. And so what skills are gonna be most important there? What do I need to work on to get there? And so you can start to consider what you might need to leverage. What are your strongest skills are? Uh but also what you might need to enhance as you move forward. And then those skills which are identifying with that coach uh can become part of a custom action plan that you have. So again, you’re able to prioritize your professional development a little more effectively. [00:07:47.84] spk_0:
Ok. Um All right. So let’s take a step back. We, we get a little ahead, but that’s ok. Um, where, what’s the, all right. So you’ve already said this is confidential. It’s anonymous. All right. So it’s, it’s really the best information we’re gonna get. Um, it’s from all different, all different networks. So it’s people that are lateral to you, uh, working for you who you work for could be others. I mean, I don’t know, in nonprofits, might you go to, you go to board members? If there’s a relationship there, if there’s some liaison, work there or something, would you go to? Maybe donors, would you, donors, volunteers that the person is working with or is that really not appropriate to ask them to participate in? [00:08:16.89] spk_2:
Yeah, I’ve not seen anybody go to donors, but definitely volunteers if you’re, if you’re working with them in a capacity where they’re going to see those skills at play, right? If they, if you’re not working with them in that way, they wouldn’t make a good feedback provider. [00:08:30.94] spk_0:
Ok. All right. So volunteer. Yeah, donors, that seems like a little much to ask for someone to rate the person that you rate the fundraiser that you work with or something. Ok. Um, so let’s identify the benefits for the organization that would do a 3 60 assessment. [00:09:38.71] spk_2:
Sure. Yeah. So what I love about assessments is that they are strategic uh but also compassionate, human centered, right? So when it comes to leadership development, um professional development is especially important. You want your leaders to be better, you want them to be stronger for your organization and you want them to perform well. So assessing on uh those common leadership competencies, gives a baseline that is both relevant to their work and to your organization and practical. Um But you also, if you think about the human Center piece of it, um your leaders also have dreams, they also have goals beyond just your their role at your organization. And so, uh by having the 3 60 assessment, you’re able to assess those things, those competencies that are important for your organization, but you’re also giving them some ownership and what they do with that information. And so they’re able to tailor the, the action plan that they’re gonna get out of this, they’re able to tailor that based on what their goals are within the organization as well. So whatever they decide to do will benefit the organization, but it will also be tailored to them. And so they, it will benefit themselves, you know, their own development as well. [00:10:00.92] spk_0:
So I’m gonna ask about some outliers ha have you seen cases where the, the assessment was just so bad that the, the organization decided, you know, we, we gotta just let this person go like we just, we can’t, there’s no performance plan, there’s no action, there’s no action worksheet. That’s gonna, that’s gonna, that’s gonna bring this person along. It’s, it’s, it’s just [00:11:07.34] spk_2:
hopeless. Yeah. So I have not, uh my recommendation is not to use it to use a 3 60 assessment in a punitive way. Um And so you would only use a 3 60 assessment. If there’s someone that you want them to develop, you want to see them develop and grow within your organization. Um And in fact, I I recommend that the results are kept confidential between the participant and the coach and that no one else actually gets a copy of those results. I actually get that request a lot at the board level. If it’s the, it’s the CEO that’s going through um the assessment process, the board chair will, will want those results. My recommendation is, is not to do it that way. Um I also get a lot of um requests for the 3 60 assessment to be the performance review and that’s also not a great use of a 3 60 assessment. You wanna do the performance review separately and then one of their goals through that performance review process might be to complete a 3 60 assessment. But again, only if you’re really invested in them growing and developing as a leader, not as a way to, to sort of move them out of the organization, [00:11:32.68] spk_0:
it’s counterintuitive, not using the assessment as a as performance uh evaluation tool. What, what why is that say? Say a little more about why that’s not recommended. [00:12:06.47] spk_2:
Yeah, I think so for me. Um, I think giving the 3 60 assessment to someone that you um believe in and you are valuing their contributions, you’re gonna have a lot better outcome. They’re going to be more honest in the assessment process. Uh, their feedback providers are probably going to be more honest as well and then they’re able to have a good honest conversation with their coach and they’re able to kind of lean into that vulnerability without constantly thinking, I’m gonna get fired, right. It’s actually really good useful information to grow. Um And I would recommend 3 60 assessments for star performers. Um you know, just as much as I would for those that you are looking to develop for a particular reason. [00:12:30.57] spk_0:
Ok. Ok. Um So how do we get started with this uh uh in the, in the organization? I mean, if we’re gonna suppose we’re gonna do this enterprise wide, I mean, that could mean, you know, 456 employees for some listeners, it may mean hundreds of employees. How do we start this? Yeah, where do we start? [00:14:13.63] spk_2:
Yeah. So every organization is different, they’re going to approach it in a slightly different way. Um The I work with a vendor that hosts 3 60 assessments. So those assessments are already created, they’re standard, they exist for um different types of leadership. So whether it’s the, the CEO executive director or um whether it’s more of an di contributor in individual contributor or something in between, they have assessments um that are tailored to each of those different um types of roles within an organization. So I would, you know, first look at um how do you want to roll this out? Um A lot of organizations will start with maybe a senior leadership team to show that they’re, you know, modeling what they, what they, what they would ask of their other staff. Um And so they might start with a leadership team, um have a small group, go through this process and then look at adding some additional staff to that. Um The only thing that you would wanna consider really is um great or fatigue. So if in an organization, you’re going to be asking the same people to provide feedback to multiple people at the same time, um that can get a little bit fatiguing and then they might not be as honest or they might not take as much time um as they go through the assessment because they’re just trying to get through all of them. Uh So you want the readers, the people who are providing the feedback um to feel like they have the time and um you know, the energy to get through those assessments as well. [00:14:32.73] spk_0:
Yeah, because if, if, if there’s a lot of people at the same level and you’re evaluating your peers, right? I mean, you could have to be doing a lot of these. All right. So how do you overcome that spread, spread out the time and give them more time to do. I mean, I suppose you have to do six or eight of these things. [00:14:46.78] spk_2:
I would start with a smaller group and then as that group finishes, you could look at bringing in another group to complete the assessment. [00:15:28.11] spk_1:
It’s time frame break donor box. You’ve heard the testimonials, easy set up fast checkout QR codes simple for your donors and incredible results like you’ve gone to 10, eighteen’s 70% increase in donations. If you’re looking for a fast flexible and donor friendly fundraising platform for your organization. Check out donor box, donor box dot org. Now back to performance improvement. [00:15:31.56] spk_0:
So this is not something that sounds like it can be easily done in house. You, you’re saying you work with a vendor that already has these, these assessment tools published. It sounds like something that would be kind of hard to recreate in house and, and do and do. Well, [00:16:08.09] spk_2:
I think it depends on just the resources of the organization. Uh There are really good off the shelf assessments where you don’t have to spend the money to create something that’s custom to your organization. You can a lot of um a lot of the vendors who offer off the shelf um assessments can also do custom assessments for your organization, but it’s, it’s a fairly resource heavy project um, because you wanna make sure that whatever gets created is statistically relevant. It’s a valid assessment and all of that. And so, um, to do that a lot of times it does take more time and more resources to make it happen. [00:16:25.93] spk_0:
What happens if there’s an outlier in the, in the Raiders, like one person rates somebody so high or so low compared to the other six or eight people. That, that rate what, what happens to those outlier ratings. [00:17:23.67] spk_2:
Yeah, that does happen from time to time. You’ll have somebody who, um, you know, every question just about is really high or really low. Um, you know, I, as a coach, um, I might ask the participant, um, if they have any thoughts about why that might be the case and we might have some conversation around, you know, why someone might be rating really high or really low. It is anonymous. So, unless it’s the supervisor, they’re probably not going to know who said, you know, who it is, that’s rating them that’s out there. Um, but you can have some good conversation that way. Sometimes there’s not, you know, anything that comes to mind that would make someone, um, be completely different than the other radio. And so, um, you know, you’re gonna kind of go with the, with the theme across and so if most people are rating you at a four and then one person at a one, perhaps that one person had one particular experience that they’re, they’re, you know, calling to mind if they’re completing the assessment. And so that’s causing those scores because [00:17:45.64] spk_0:
the person, you, you, you keep their car when they took your parking space to the right, [00:17:52.72] spk_2:
you never know, you never know. Uh And so it’s, it’s information um but it’s not necessarily the focus because the theme is that most people are, are rating you in that four. [00:18:52.95] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Kela increase donations and foster collaborative teamwork with Kela. The fundraisers, CRM maximize your team’s productivity and spend more time building strong connections with donors through features that were built specifically for fundraisers. A fundraiser, Crm goes beyond a data management platform. It’s designed with unique needs of fundraisers in mind and aims to unify fundraising, communications and donor management tools into one single source of truth visit, Kila dot co to sign up for a coming group demo and explore how to exceed your fundraising goals like never before. It’s time for Tonys take two. Thanks, Kate. [00:24:10.82] spk_0:
I’m replaying the Tony’s take two from the show that Heather Burright appeared on. I was talking about sharing non profit radio, but I went into a, a bit of a tangent about waiting tables and sharing tips. Here. It is, sharing is still caring. Who can you share a non profit radio with? I was thinking it could be a lackluster colleague or maybe somebody who’s in another non profit or you know, a friend who works elsewhere who you just happen to know is not up to speed mediocre, lackluster because we’re talking this week about performance improvement. So, whose performance do you want to improve? That’s the person you refer to nonprofit radio. They need to be listening. They got to up their game. They don’t want to be mediocre and lackluster any longer and you don’t want them to be, especially if they work in your shop, they’re dragging you down. It’s like when you used to, did you ever wait tables? Those are waited tables. If, if you did and sharing tips. Oh, that’s the worst. It was just last week. Um I wrapped it up. Yeah, just, just in just uh late July uh no years ago waiting tables and we shared tips, the mediocre people bring you down and you know who they are. You, you know, you can hear them at the adjacent tables. The adjacent station, I was always mediocre at one thing. I was terrible, worse than mediocre. I was always terrible at cappuccinos when somebody ordered a cappuccino. And I had a face that daunting high, highly polished copper machine with the nozzle for the milk and the foam and the, the knobs and the, they gotta press the espresso in right and it’s just the right pressure and the milk has to be the right temperature and this, this machine just scared the hell out of me just to look at the thing. I didn’t even like walking by it. I got, I, I would, I would get, I would get, I would get sweats just walking past it. Let alone, I had to face off with the thing when somebody ordered a cappuccino or God forbid, a table table of four or six. Yeah. Well, all round of cappuccinos. Oh, my God. Every other table in my station is gonna be half an hour late Now while I fight with this machine to get the milk to the right temperature and the foam and the right consistency and the wh cappuccinos my death. I really somebody who wrote a cappuccino. You sure you don’t want a Limoncello. I have a Limoncello on the house give you I’ll give the table around Limoncello. If you will, you alone will just not get a cappuccino. All right. That was my bane as a waiter. But so, so, but that didn’t bring the tips down cause everybody got free drinks because I hardly ever poured once I got smart. Of course, the house didn’t like it but they never knew. Um So you know, so the tips actually were, were better because I was given free drinks for everybody to bribe them away from a single cappuccino. So that aside the uh yeah, the sharing of tips, I hated it. I the, the, the, the, the poor performers were always dragging us down were killing us every night and I could hear them you know, that in low energy they forget what the specials are. They read the specials of their little, their, their parchment paper, little, little note pad because they couldn’t afford to buy a new one because their tips are so low because they’re so poor and they were gonna drag me down with them. Well, first of all I didn’t use the little book. I used to memorize the specials. I never liked looking at that because the thing gets red wine spilled on it. And you know, it’s, it wouldn’t get cappuccino on it because I didn’t know how to make them, but it might get milk on it as I was trying. So the poor performers, the poor performers in your nonprofit, I’m bringing it back. I’m bringing it back. Don’t worry. Uh You know, they’re dragging you down. So you got to refer them to non profit radio. That’s it. You want to raise the level of all the boats. Wait, you want to raise the level of the whole sea. Wait, you wanna raise, you wanna, you wanna raise all the boats, you gotta raise the sea. That’s what it is or the yacht basin. So your organization, you’re non profit, that’s the yacht basin. You gotta, you wanna raise all the boats, you gotta raise the sea. Refer these poor performers to nonprofit radio. That’s the point. That’s where I’m headed. All right, cappuccinos and Limoncello. Who can you refer non profit radio to I’d be grateful. Remember, board members too, if you got any friends, they’re board members. Board members are great listeners. They, they use it to stimulate conversation to stimulate thinking very valuable. Plus anybody who works for a nonprofit naturally. Thank you. Thanks for thinking about it. Who you can refer non profitt radio to? That is Tony’s take two. That is Tony’s take two Kate. [00:24:15.55] spk_1:
You know, dad just got a new espresso and cappuccino machine. So when you come over for the holidays, we’re gonna learn how to make cappuccino. So you can’t, you know, [00:24:38.92] spk_0:
I can practice, I can practice on the, on the, on that machine. All right, I’m telling you those things scared me. It’s got that long tube with the milk that, that the milk has to come out of and steam and froth and the knobs and everything. [00:24:40.94] spk_1:
You’re gonna be an expert by the end of the holidays. [00:24:44.12] spk_0:
Ok. Christmas cappuccinos. I’ll, I’ll be pouring them. All right. [00:24:49.07] spk_1:
We’ve got, we’ve got just about a butt load more time. Let’s go back to performance improvement. [00:25:01.75] spk_0:
And what form do people who are rated, get this information in? WW? Is it something quantitative or is it narrative or both or what, what are they seeing? What’s each person who gets rated seeing? [00:25:34.04] spk_2:
Yeah, absolutely. So, um the vendor that I work with particularly, um and I think this is true of, of other vendors that I’ve seen as well. Um There is data that’s involved. So you will be able to see for each question um how you were rated, you’ll be able to compare those scores by the different R groups. Um A lot of times there is um an opportunity to roll that data up as well, so you can start to see overall what are my strengths and my development opportunities. Um And then there’s typically something um a little more qualitative um included as well where people can kind of open comments, provide feedback and you can spend some time looking at that as [00:25:54.30] spk_0:
well. Ok. Ok. Um And, and let’s talk more about the, the coaching and the, and maybe the work plan that goes along with improving areas that aren’t so strong. Um How long does that last or what? What, what does that look like? [00:26:55.70] spk_2:
Yeah, so um the assessment process itself uh can take a few weeks just to get that feedback. You know, you’re gonna do self assessment, you’re gonna invite your readers, they’re gonna go in, provide their feedback, it’s gonna generate the, the data, the report for you. Um And then the coaching session you want at least one that I would say is the absolute minimum. I thought this was right to go through that data. Um If you’re really looking to, to see that person um that participant make progress on their action plan, so they’re making progress towards their goals, then I definitely recommend looking at a longer term relationship with that coach because they can start to become an accountability partner and they can continue to prompt them to action. They can continue to help them think through how they’re gonna apply what they’re learning on the job. And so there’s just a lot of value there. Um, I would say that about that, um, does vary by organization as well. Um, but if you want to see, you know, those results, um, and see the action being taken. Um I would say at least three months um probably longer to, to watch that behavior start to change. [00:27:33.84] spk_0:
Uh Tell us a story about an organization or it could be a person. Um I kind of like the organization level if you have a story like that, like where you saw, you know, you saw them go through this process and you saw improvement among key people in the organization and they don’t have to be senior leaders, but you saw, you saw improvement, you know, you saw a benefit come out of this, whatever, eight months later, a year later, a year and a half later, you know, share a little story. [00:29:27.05] spk_2:
Yeah. So um for, I guess for anonymity sake, I can share my own story because I have been through the 3 60 assessment process um myself. Um If you like, so I, when I went through the 3 60 assessment process, um some of the feedback that I received was that I needed to use my voice more that I had, um, you know, good ideas when I spoke up and that I needed to, you know, speak up more and make sure that people heard and valued what, you know, whatever it was that I had to say. And it was something that I, it was a piece of feedback that I found very interesting because I felt like in some environments, I was pretty quick to speak up to, you know, take a lead in something um to have my voice heard. And then in other environments, I might be a little less likely to do that. And it just kind of depended on the situation. What um I was on a lot of cross functional project teams at the time. So, you know, what was my role on that project? Who was leading that project, that kind of thing? To me, it all felt very strategic about when I was um using my voice and, and when I wasn’t, but with that feedback, right, that’s information. So with that feedback, I was able to um start to think about how do I want to use my voice? And um when do I want to use my voice and what would it look like or what would it feel like to be heard in, in different settings? And uh through that process, I was able to um more intentionally start pick up um not just in meetings, but also, um you know, one on one with my supervisor and say, you know, hey, I’m interested in this or I wanna know more about this or I think we should do this or whatever the case is. And I was able to start using my voice a little more intentionally. And the within the organization, um and saw from a, from a career perspective, saw my own, my own career start to um open up and, and grow quite a bit from that. [00:29:56.55] spk_0:
And so the feedback you got wasn’t as nuanced as you would have, you would have thought it would be like you said, certain situations, you were deli deliberately reticent to speak up and others, you were more vocal, but the feedback wasn’t that nuanced. [00:30:31.97] spk_2:
Correct, correct. Because if my, if you think about like my peers, they’re seeing me in different environments or uh my partners, I was working on a lot of cross functional teams. So I had partners from all over the organization that were providing feedback. And so depending on which projects I was working on, I might have been leading the project or I might have been just a contributor on the project. And so depending on um what my role was, I was showing up differently in those settings, [00:30:51.04] spk_0:
right? So each people, each person saw you differently. They didn’t, they didn’t see the full breath. But overall, you took it as I should speak up more, I should be more assertive, I [00:30:52.06] spk_2:
guess Yeah, absolutely. And just think about how I’m being perceived as well, right, within a, within a meeting or, um, a team. [00:31:06.28] spk_0:
And then how about developing an action plan? What, uh, what, what do you do that in conjunction with the coach or what ho how does that, how does that look? And how long is an action plan last? [00:32:56.08] spk_2:
Yeah. So I recommend doing that in conjunction with a coach, uh, at least on that first coaching call to have um something in mind that you’re gonna be working towards. So I typically go through kind of the who, what, when, where, why, how questions. So um you know, what is it that you wanna do? What is it that you wanna focus on? Which competency is standing out to you? Which area are you believing that you want to develop in some way? Again, it could be enhancing um or leveraging a strength that could be enhancing something that’s a little bit weaker. But what is it that you wanna work on? And then how are you going to do that? Are you gonna go um to a training? Are you gonna participate in a leadership program? Are you going to, you start listening to podcasts like this one about, you know, whatever topic you’re trying to work on, what is it that you are going to commit to, to develop that particular skill? It could be taking on a different project at work, right? That you know, is gonna challenge that skill set. So um thinking through your options and deciding how you want to develop that skill and then also with that, putting a timeline to it. So when, when are you gonna start, um what are the, you know, milestones that are gonna be along the way? How long will it take you to complete whatever it is that you’re deciding you want to do? Um And then from there, who, who’s gonna help you, who’s gonna help hold you accountable? We know that most people don’t just change automatically. So if you think about the number of people who um don’t uh follow through on their New Year’s resolutions, right? It, it takes more than just knowing that you need to change or even sometimes having a desire to change and so who can help you, who can be that accountability partner for you, um to make sure that you’re working on this goal and, and it could be the coach, but it could be someone else as well. It could be a supervisor, it could be a peer, um a partner, even someone just in your life that’s going to help, um help you, you know, work towards your goals. And so going through some of those questions, you’re able to put together an action plan that includes things like that timeline. How long you’re gonna be working on it? What do we [00:33:21.08] spk_0:
do for the folks who really just don’t take this feedback. Well, maybe there are strengths but they’re not, they’re not acknowledging those or maybe, maybe they don’t have strengths identified or let’s just say it’s objectively, it’s, well forget, um, subjectively it’s taken as very bad, forget how it looks objectively. The, the person is taking it very badly, very hard [00:33:41.46] spk_2:
it happens. [00:33:42.08] spk_0:
What do we do? What do we do? [00:34:27.39] spk_2:
So, you know, a skilled coach will probably do one of two things. I, I believe I’m a skilled coach, but a skilled coach will likely do one of two things. Um, one try to on that call, uh, get to at the, the bottom of that feeling, basically what’s causing it. Why am I getting such a reaction from this information? Um, just trying to understand perhaps there’s something that is triggering the reaction beyond just what’s on, on the, the paper, so to speak. And so having that conversation can actually sometimes move people into a new place, a better place to, to have the conversation that you have wanna have. Um, another option. And, and another thing that a skilled coach might do is just ask to reschedule the call. Um, because sometimes [00:34:36.89] spk_0:
to do what reschedule [00:34:53.58] spk_2:
the call, the coach call, right? Um Because sometimes there’s just something, whatever it is, whether it’s a, uh, a data point or a comment that has been included in the feedback, something just hijacks you and you can’t move past it in that moment, but that doesn’t mean that two weeks from now, one week from now you wouldn’t be able to move past that. And so sometimes having some space can, can be really beneficial. And so just saying, you know what it sounds like, this is not gonna, you know, be a good time for us to have this conversation. Why don’t we reconnect on Tuesday and then you’re giving some, them some space to kind of think through and process what they’re, what they’re learning in the assessment. [00:35:21.60] spk_0:
Ok. I could see how some people could take it hard. [00:35:23.86] spk_2:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Right. There’s that one comment, the comment that [00:35:29.60] spk_0:
like maybe you even thinking, I know who said that. I know who that was. He killed me. [00:35:36.52] spk_2:
Yes. People spend time trying to figure out who said what and it’s not, that’s not the point, right of the assessment and so helping them move past that can, can be part of the, have you had [00:35:48.58] spk_0:
people plead with you to tell you? Oh, come on, who said that? [00:35:51.98] spk_2:
Well, as a coach, I don’t know who’s at it. So [00:35:55.20] spk_0:
it’s anonymous to [00:36:08.79] spk_2:
you. It is, I, I might know uh for the, for the data points, I know which group it came out of and, and they do too, um but not necessarily for the open field comments. Um And so it’s, it’s, you know, you can think about this all day, but it doesn’t mean you’re gonna get it right. And then what if you do, what, then what, you know what’s gonna change for you? How are you going to use that information? So, [00:36:17.88] spk_0:
now I’m, now I’m blowing this up. Like, have there been cases of retaliation where somebody confronted somebody? I know you, I know you’re the one who wrote this. [00:36:26.79] spk_2:
I, I would guess somewhere in the world that perhaps that is the case. Um, but I have not experienced [00:36:42.49] spk_0:
that. All right. No workplace blow ups or confrontations over 3 60 assessments. All right. All right. Um What else, what else would you like us to know? We still got, we got some time left. What like what happened? I asked you that you think folks should know about these 3 60 degree feedback? [00:38:23.26] spk_2:
Yeah, I would just add that. Um So I work with, with nonprofit leaders to help them create scalable learning strategies. And um you know, oftentimes when there is some sort of learning need, some sort of professional development need, we go to training and I create training. So I’m biased. I, I like it. I think it’s a great solution but it’s a solution. And I think pairing any other sort of professional development program, um like a training with a 3 60 assessment is actually even more valuable because if you’re able to assess your skills first and then say, here’s where I need to improve, here’s where I need to focus and then you send them through, say a leadership training, they have that skill set in mind. As they’re going through that training, they’re focused on that particular skill set, whether it’s, you know, communication or relationship building or whatever they’re focused on that, they’re gonna get back out of it and then you’re gonna see some really intentional transformation um because they had the assessment process first. So when I think about creating scalable learning strategies for organizations, it is thinking through that whole process, how can we make sure that we’re being strategic, that the organization is getting what they need? But then also thinking about the individual within the audience. So things like 3 60 assessments combined with formal training, combined with coaching, um can actually be a really effective way to see how people grow and develop. I think, you know, for me, I think people are worthy of investment and then I think investing in your people, make them feel valued and gives them, you know, a new, new skills and a new passion for their work. Um And as leaders in our organizations, we get to create that environment, we get to create those opportunities so that our people can thrive. And so an assessment is one great tool that you can use in conjunction with many other tools to help your your leaders grow and develop. [00:39:02.09] spk_0:
So then by coalescing all the assessment data for all the individual people, you’re saying you can target training enterprise wide that that helps lift lift skill deficits that, that are like common across lots of people in the organization. [00:39:27.21] spk_2:
You can, you can. And even if you have a general leadership program, if your individuals have gone through the 3 60 assessment process, they’re looking to develop particular skills. And so they’re gonna be looking to find that you, you often find what you’re looking for, right? So they’re gonna be looking to find whatever that is in the leadership program. So even if it’s a, a more general program that you’re offering, um or you’re, you know, sending people to the 3 60 assessment, gives that individual information so that they look for that when they’re in that program. Yeah. [00:39:51.41] spk_0:
Right. Right. As you said, right. They’re looking, they find what they’re looking for. Yeah. Absolutely. Ok. All right, we leave it there, Heather, what do you [00:39:53.31] spk_2:
think? That sounds good, tony. Thanks for having me. [00:40:10.16] spk_0:
Oh, it’s my pleasure. Absolutely. Heather Bright founder and CEO of Skill Masters Market. The company is at Skill Masters market dot com and she is at Heather Burright. Thank you again, Heather. Thanks tony [00:40:18.28] spk_1:
next week. Financial Fitness for your board. If you missed any part of this week’s show, [00:40:21.11] spk_0:
I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com [00:41:11.92] spk_1:
were sponsored by donor box, outdated donation forms blocking your supporters, generosity, donor box fast, flexible and friendly fundraising forms for your non profit donor box dot org and by Kela, grow revenue, engage donors and increase efficiency. With Kila, the fundraisers CRM visit Kila dot co to join the thousands of fundraisers using Kila to exceed their goals. Our creative producer is Claire Meer. I’m your associate producer, Kate martignetti. Social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guide and this music is by Scott Stein. [00:41:26.83] spk_0:
Thank you for that affirmation. Scotty be with us next week for nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.