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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into karate. No durney mia, if you joined us me with the idea that you missed today’s show sms fund-raising too a new panel continues our convo from last week taking on kp eyes testing your donor’s life cycle and mohr. They’re members of begin from coupland mobile messaging and ellen peskay alla with the humane society of the united states that was recorded at the non-profit technology conference and digitally track your hyre l work. Self described data nerd emily patterson talks you through online tracking and analyzing of your offline activity. She’s, founder of be measure b e and that’s also recorded at the non-profit technology conference on tony’s take two it’s time to make time responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio wagner sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps, dot com and by tello’s turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s let’s, kick it off! Here’s sms. Fund-raising too, welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference coming to you from new orleans hashtag is eighteen and t c this interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits my guests for this session are meredith begin and ellen pascal. Meredith is mobile strategist for a planned a mobile messaging, and ellen is mobile marketing manager for the humane society of the united states. Mary ellen, welcome, you should have you both. You’re thankyou. Your topic is can you really raise more money? Can you really raise money through text messages? Meredith start, do you think there’s some skepticism around this? Is that why you freeze that as a question? Can we really can you really do this? I think there is a lot of people don’t they look a text messaging as just a one to one thing on, and they don’t really know it as well of organizations using it as a tool in their tool box for fund-raising for long term, it was just a one off for right relief for volunteers or something like that indeed, is the back and forth engagement throughout the entire life cycle of the subscriber on dh. With that engagement, there’s often asked for for some funds to help out with some programs. Okay, ellen, what is that life cycle look like? Meredith is talking about the life cycle of the donor through your your your text program? Well, well, they become, and usually through advocacy, okay? Or or or through one of our just opt in key words and and we like we’ll ask them for money for maybe a rescue or something, an animal rescue and yeah, eso and we’re asking a lot of the same people that are on her e mail list that are, you know, see, they’re going to our web site there, seeing our ads there are facing their facebook followers and whatever, uh, and and they they donate at higher rates on sms, which is kind of something that might be surprising to you because you’re not used to seeing a lot of brands or especially non-profits in your text, you know? Hyre but yeah, and then we follow up the same way email would thank them and yeah, we use is it’s like an outbound, you know? Broadcast service similar t mail, but different because it’s, you know it’s a different type of medium. How did the open rates compare email versus sametz a marriage until i speak a little better to that. Ok, well, how about you know what i mean? Just for the main zsystems xero but i don’t know how how open rights should be captured on sms, but there seems to be there’s like an industry staff just this has ninety nine percent are open of texts, which kind of makes sense when you think about your own text like you’re not leaving them just sitting there with a little red right now, who does that? Buy-in but i don’t know how that’s really counted you have something that i’m sure it’s actually the industry that counts, quote unquote, open rates for email, i mean, for text messaging on dh they so we basically go by reports from what the industry provides to us, and i’ve seen statistics from ninety eight, ninety nine percent of text messages are open and the majority of those air within the first ninety seconds well, the ninety seconds yes, ok, i should really be that surprised it. Takes a priority in our lives until the next thing comes along that trumps texting the way email got trumped by by texting right? I mean there’s going to be another technology? Maybe you don’t know what it is. I mean, text messaging sms messaging has been in existence widespread since since the ninety’s the first text message a billy was in nineteen ninety two eso email isn’t that much longer, although you’re right that that text messaging is kind of the new or medium has people emails play the email, open rates are decreasing action race conversion rates fund-raising fund-raising everything’s decreasing on email because people are are finding other mediums to communicate. And text messaging, though, has continued to stay strong and steady buy-in you don’t want to predict what’s gonna happen, what it’ll look like, the landscape will be ten years from now. Years from now, there is this new thing out that technology the industry is trying to push forward and called rcs rich communication something and it’s similar to kind of building out miniature web pages via a similar text messaging system. But the industry is still currently working out pricing for that it’s quite. Possible that it’s going to be cost prohibitive so there are no technologies that tend to come out, you know, there’s, there’s, aps chat apse that are used with push notifications. But those all requires somebody to actually download an application in order to be able to use everybody already has actually passed on their phone with a smartphone. Exactly. Okay, so ellen so the humane society has made as mainstream hoexter text e-giving it’s a part of your fund-raising plan. I don’t know if i could take credit for making e across, you know, not not your pioneered it, you know, but you mainstream did i mean within you make so is a part of your fund-raising yeah, it’s it’s not now, by that you mean just to clarify you mean text, text to donate, as in like hoexter keyword and two don’t have ten, ten dollars, out of your way. You educate me? Maybe i’m maybe i’m not referring to right way we’re talking about text e-giving i thought that i meant yes to give is actually just a portion it sze one one way to text and doo doo fund-raising okay versus what there’s some other way. Yeah, way volunteering or what? Well, so most of the money that we raise using sms is through broadcast messages with a link to a donation for okay, i’m hearing this for the first time. So give me a chance. Cast messages with link to monisha. Okay. So text message with you like this, but there’s like, you know, okay, something. Yeah, so that’s us reeling out, doing a deal. I’m the remedial student. I’m just learning this for the first time, but all tryingto hold up my side of competition. Okay, so most most of the that’s, the way it’s done well, that’s, most of the money we raise is from that comes from that. Yes, right. But we definitely also for, you know, for mention before we do a lot of animal rescue. So there’s a lot of like disaster response to the lot of urgent asks. And in those cases it’s really useful to have texted donatas well, that’s that’s when you see, like text love to teo two due to donate ten dollars, to our animal rescue team and that’s, you know, during like hurricane harvey or something. And so so that yes, so we raise money both ways, but we, but partially due to the size of the gifts, i think is why the sending the techs out with a wink? Usually i mean, definitely raises more money, okay? Hyre in terms of best practices or well, before we go on to that, i just wantto kind of clarify the difference between broadcast messaging and text to give s o the broadcast messaging that helen’s talking about where you send out a broadcast with a link, those air to subscribers who have all confirmed to receive text messages from you already. So though ellen is able to send out a text message to them, ask them to donate the text to give where you’ll see a keyword to a short code toe donate a certain number of a certain amount of money, those air usually only five, ten or twenty dollars, allotments amounts and it’s actually a pledge to donate, and then those that funds those funds are actually pulled out. You’re basically build through your phone bill, so if i pledged to donate ten dollars, then on my next phone bill, i see an additional ten dollars debit. Ok, ok, we’ve seen that, yeah. Okay. Thank you for distinguishing against the medial for medium part of this panel. It’s. Time for a break pursuant. The art and science of acquisition is one of their content papers. Has your revenue could use more donors? Therefore, you need to keep your prospect pipeline full so the money keeps flowing to the important work that you’re doing. Hence, you need this paper. The art and science of acquisition it’s on the listener landing page at tony dahna slash pursuant radio let’s, go back to the remedial student learning sms fund-raising too. All right. So some of the tools yeah, let’s, let’s talk about some of the tools that are out there to help you put make mainstream this into your fund-raising plan some of technology that’s available. Wantto start. Sure. So i’m with the blood mobile messaging and a lot of are. A lot of your listeners probably are more familiar with mobile commons. We mobile commons was purchased by up land software about three years ago. Now, so it’s been a long, slow process to change our name and so are now up on mobile messaging. Yes. Um, and, you know, we have tools. Everything in our in our toolbox in our platform so our customers can actually log into a platform to manage their list of subscribers to create groups of segments based on based on geography based on legislators based on how they’ve behaved in previous text messages. There’s, all sorts of custom fields that you can use to kind of personalized thie engagement with the person on the other end. We also have trackable links. Eso each link has a little code added to the end of it so that we know when someone receives a text message if they clicked on it or not. Weii, you can send sms or or emma’s messages. Mmm. Way of jargon. Jail on non-profit sms is your standard messaging service. Yeah, it’s one hundred sixty characters it’s like the original text message. Emma’s is pretty much the same thing, but you think you have the unlimited characters for a multimedia? Some message passes. I never know. Media message ings, multimedia’s one word service your hat messaging multimedia’s one neo-sage messaging service service service is i don’t know zsystems okay, so emma messes if you attach like a graphic or a gift for some sort of an attachment along with a text message of ellen. You see, actually, i want to go step back. It was there any reluctance in humane society to bring this are looking or smile to bring this into into the fund-raising plan? There may well have been, but i have only been duitz i’m doing this since june two thousand seventeen officially. Okay, so i was able to kind of bypass a lot of that, but i wasn’t the orders i’ve been in the organization for seven years about don’t try to do any age with that wake enough. Okay, good it’s. Not long enough. Okay, um, yeah. So when i when i started sending her text, we already had a pretty good list and there was a pretty good buy-in internally, they’re great people running the program before, okay, but yeah, i mean it’s, it’s, it’s an ongoing process to kind of sell it internally as something that’s worth continuing to invest in because it is a smaller list. Then you know, if people used to email people using millions of followers on social media and it’s and it’s not that many just because of what it is because it’s it’s something you have to opt into, you’re not used to seeing millions. You know, when you go in your email, you see a ton of non-profit ideo i don’t know, i kind of company is emailing you. I should say and it’s it’s not, you know, you could just leave him in ignore on email. But where there’s a mess, you’re going to opt out if you’re annoyed by it. So it’s so it’s, kind of, you know, there is a smaller lines now it’s growing, but yeah, so so, yeah, the thea the buy-in is an ongoing process, but i did. I was able to skip over most of it. Okay, but of course, you have metrics to demonstrate what the are alive does look like so you can be making your case. Oh, yeah, okay. Absolutely. Okay, uh, what are some of the things you measure? I’m going to jump around right now. We’re going. Now we’re gonna move to metrics, one of the things that something you recommend on our listeners role in small and midsize shot probably smaller than humane society, but still we’re big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Yeah, so you’re gonna represent the big non-profit idea. Part of what you may be measuring. Well, a lot of the the kp eyes keep performance indicators and hears you are this. I want to got there, i think. E think i guess i’m a little nervous, but so a lot of them in the same is what you’re tracking. Email, quick, the rate. Well, response rate. Something to call action rate, depending on what we’re standing on. Radio it’s the number of people that did the thing you want them to dio over how money works, abila saying or delivered were delivered. How is that different than the click through rate? So click the rating is how many of the people that, well, how many clicks it just clicks not the people that, like, donated so it’s. So it’s clicks over delivered it. Supposed teo donated over deliver. Okay. The ultimate action over. Yes. Yeah, andi. Also a conversion rate. So it’s, seeing how many people that clicked on it actually went ahead and donated and that’s a lot of times indication of where you’re sending them. In that case, the message is clear. In that case, the denominator is how many people click now? How many people were sent? How many people click, then, actually then took the action? Yes. Okay. Proportion with simple fractures were doing instructions, right? Yeah. Okay. Um, i mean, i also look att i lookit opt out rates to see if, like, if it’s a kind of indicator of maybe i’m spending too much of one thing. Okay? Or if a lot, i mean, if people are interested in something i’m asking not necessarily with fund-raising so, yeah, that’s it’s something i definitely keep track of delivery rates to from a lot of the message we’re failing. Are you the person actually writing the text messages? You are? I was the better. I was going to meet somebody. One of them? Never. Yeah, never. Okay. We’re in the right place. You’re one of my highlights, possibly of my career. When i was out at happy hour and i was telling somebody i used to run the mobile program at food and water watch. I was telling somebody about it, and she was like, wait a second, are you mayor? I was like, yes, i’m there’s grantspace totally like that’s. Like when somebody says, oh, i already listen to your show. Oh, hey, welcome. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. That’s. Great. All right. Any other k p i that we should be measuring. That elearning mentioned order for fund-raising specifically, we’re going to get two other goals. Means gold platform. The optimal messaging platform allows you to do so, maybe testing eso. At that point, you could you could. Use you could basically tested measure anything that you want. You could test time of day. You could test whether or not using somebody’s name and their text message makes a difference. You could test who the messages from whether you put the organisation’s name at the beginning or the end there’s, whether a graphic makes a difference or not, whether defer to different types of graphics make a difference. We wish one of those is the winner. Okay? Not not dissimilar from what you might. Just an email. Correct? Because the subject line but testing some things are similar. Correct? Okay, related. Difficult part with fund-raising is, you know, just like with email. Is it’s it’s hard to get that statistically significant number if if you’re listed small. Luckily, well, not luckily with through hard work. Humane society of united states list is quite large. So so they are able to get some good numbers. Okay, let’s, talk messing with different goals. But where? Ellen, what are you using besides fund-raising? Are you using sms for other purposes? Yeah, so are our main goals for a sametz are fund-raising and adversity just kind of our main roles goals for digital market department here. Is that your fund-raising obviously as well. And so so yeah so way. Send maura text. Not for fund-raising then we send for fund-raising so advocacies the most. You know what we’ve message most about? What kinds of actions are you trying to stimulate people too? Well, a lot of calling legislator, congressman locally a lot of times to we’ve had them called city council members lots of calls. So then upload has a has a good system for, like you reply call to, like, be connected. So it’s it’s, kind of like integrates like mobile, very tech savvy text savvy. Okay, uh, and i mean there’s, some there’s, some engagement and education as faras goals too. But the mingles air abila fundez meredith. Other clients that you see using sms for other purposes. Oh, yes, well, we have probable messaging mobile comment specifically because that’s, the platform that were it’s currently called, has in addition to non-profit customers, there are a lot of health organizations, health and wellness. S o a couple of health, what i’m trying to say benefits, health benefits or so and better santini and better is an organism is one of my customers and and they engage with their members on different insurance. Eso if there’s deadlines coming up for enrollment, if there’s different things, having to do it different, that with their betterment, education, education, information, and said there’s, some of that your doing, some of that but it’s smaller one of the with this being an election year and one of the really great tools that we have is a polling place locator s o we dude use data from the pew charitable trusts that they it’s it’s actually, the voting information project and it’s, a partnership with pew, google maps and thes and state agencies for elections. People can text it if if an organization sets up the polling place locator way we have the all the data, you just plug it in and is ready to go. They gonna have people in their text a keyword into their short code or just a note, a broadcast and reply with your address and zip code. We’ll send her your polling data, it’s all automatically it’s a it’s, a query tool within the platform itself. We want listeners to be thinking about what? What there, constituents, whether it’s volunteers donors just interested interesting people. You know what information is valuable to them related to our work, right? Right, exactly. And so if there’s events coming up, we want to get real recruit people to a rally you can even organize through that you can organize buses once or rides, and then once you have a list of all your buses, maybe say, you’re you’re going to try and convert people to a washington, d c for a gigantic rally, you could have people text in their address and find the bus that’s going to be in their community, and then they can get connected. That way they can r s v p elearning about trying to get people to opt in. What first? What channel do you use? Use? Use, use text and then say, how does it work? Way texan until they until they often yeah, so starting with so they’ll well, that that is an option for the most part way have abassi alert pages. Oh, our informs on website so if you want to send a message to a congressman or something, an email message there’s a form and then one of the fields there is mobile number and it’s got like a checkbox hopped into tax and that’s we get most of our list from that, which is great because we also get all the admiration that was on that form and they’re also under the melons. So we kind of second tio okay, but also way have a on our website in the footer there’s an opt in, we have none are after, you know, in our some of our email auto responders, i guess after donation after an advocacy action, there’s like text agents arrested three or six before topped and text okay. And does that include text to give that is are you allowed to be allowed to solicit by text what you get that additional often? Yeah, so we’ve takes good question. Yeah, so it know all of your questions have been coming in last o years? Yeah, initiating yourself the host does wonders, actually, yeah, it really does work. Yeah, let’s hope so, but yeah, so they’re on different short codes, so we can’t. I wouldn’t be able to say to text out to our my subscribers, mice drivers are stretchers. Like reply to donate ten dollars, through your phone bills, your text to give, because it’s a different phone number, they be replying, toso, those air maced, mainly seen on social media, or on our website, the like text to give the text, love to to want to do, too, okay, but opt in is three oh six, four, four you get people opt in to text to give they don’t, actually, i mean that there’s. After they’ve texted to give there’s, they get a reply that says from uscis is replied mohr, teo, teo, get text from us, and then though they will get her normal broadcast, but they really are kind of separate. They’re they’re separate short, okay, which means separate lists, basically it’s. Yeah, different purposes. Yeah, sure, code is like the phone. Oh, yeah, sorry, okay. Oh! Let’s see about some of best practices. I’m just going by your session description, right? I’m not no there’s. No gotcha questions here. I’m just going by what? You what you promised. So you promise in your session, you gotta deliver it also to not probably in short form. But we got we got several minutes left. Some best practices. Let’s start with you. Name? Name one. Okay. Always engaged. Even if you’re not asking for fund-raising you need to be consistent. Text subscribers are they’re they’re better with consistency. So if you’re going to send a text message twice a month senate text message twice a month if you don’t send a text message for a long time, then all of a sudden you do. You might see a really high opt out, right? What i remember. Remember this with them? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Ellen, you wanna go? Yeah. So the as faras i can’t really hear anymore. You can’t hear. Okay, you guys check your headset volume. Okay, well, goto you can hear me. We’re good. Yeah, we can’t okay if i were you talking to me, if you can hear, you know that’s pretty good. Yeah. Okay. You got it. So the tone is to be more conversational. Uh, e-giving because you texting is is more conversational than an email. And i wanted to be like from your friend, right? Your friends ask you for money about, like, five or six times a year. My favorite kind of friend? Yeah. So, yeah, definitely. The tones you try for humor? Not not really up to one hundred sixty, two hundred sixty characters. Text. I don’t know if my if the audience necessarily like if it’s got to be the right fit defense organization. I don’t know if i have that. If i work for an organization that would really make a ton of sense that we’re sending, like, you know, this horribly sad, like puppy rescue texted and you know something and then talked about it. Yeah, yeah, really. It’s hard, yeah. Characters. Oh, it’s. Uh, yeah, i was attracted teo and ultimately met my wife through this backward. Princessa personals ads were in print because in the little one column inch ad, she made me laugh. That’s pretty impressive, you know, she was, like, wanted elvis. And that she had a she had a supermodel supermodel amy, who was a supermodel look alike that you mentioned in your year durney covered. She said she said, cindy wanted elvis, cindy crawford look alike, except for left ear lobe left knee cap, you know, arm is arms, navel it’s, you know, that’s pretty good. You make me laughing. One column inches that’s, that’s, that’s this extraordinary. So i answered that i answer that, and i’m not going to say much to my chagrin mike delight. Yeah, so one hundred sixty characters. It’s. Tough to get somebody laugh. Okay, but one of the great things about texting is that you, it’s engaging so you might say, hey, you wanna hear a joke and then the person will be, like, sure, and then you send in the next messages automatically follows up, knock, knock who’s there and so is short. But you can. You kind of you can like i like your other menu. Yeah. And then got consent for a joke. A joke? You know, we’re lightening it up today when he was joking, knock, knock or whatever. So you kind of lead the conversation, but that allows you to get more information and less amount of character space by, like by engaging back-up you’re bonding a little bit. Yeah, there could be some value in it trying to do that every once in a while or something. Joke in a week. I don’t know way the month maybe i wouldn’t do every semiannual feels like you don’t have enough joking. Yeah. Stain on my voice is cracked, like fourteen to stay in the program. Yeah, we only have two jokes here. Copy that. We’re doing okay, huh? Uh, stay on back. Best practice. Another one. I did. And then i forgot it when you anything. Yeah. Come and get well present for fund-raising really? For anything that you’re say, linking off to make sure that wherever they go to is mobile optimized it’s, you know, and also keep in mind that not everybody everybody may i on your list, obviously has a has the ability to get tax, but not everybody has the ability to eat. They don’t a smartphone, not everybody. So just keep that in mind with your text. If everything has a link, a lot of people like i can use it. Ok, there’s enough. People out there without smartphones to be conscious of them. Oh, yeah, yeah. And you can send a segment around tonto, right? And you could segment right? And but yeah, definitely if you sent people to a form and it’s like, you know, a desktop from there, like pinching and everything it’s like it’s. Not a good look. Okay, removal latto yeah, jurors did years occur to you, meredith? Yes. Stay on topic with what they’re like on message with the rest of the organization. So if you are, you know, running a campaign on one particular topic, you want to make sure that all of your messaging through text is the same same graphics? Oh, no, same. Is that ok? But then you also want to be very sensitive about what’s going on in current affairs. If there is a saying, you know ah, school shooting or something. You don’t want to be sending out your joke that same exact day. Okay, consider context on what’s happening in the big world. In fact, outside your organization. There’s a world outside your work. Okay, because we’re gonna leave it there. That’s meredith begin mobile strategist for a planned mobile messaging. Mr and ellen nasco, mobile marketing manager for the humane society of the united states. Meredith ellen, thank you so much. Thank you for having me back. Would you lighten up a little bit? Did you loosen up a little? You know? Not not even a little. Even a little know. All right. Well, anyway, thank you on dazzle. Our interviews are at ntc at eighteen. Ntc this interview responsive by network for good he’s a used dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you so much for being with us in eighteen. Ntc. Let’s, take a break. Wagner. Cps. Start your due diligence. It’s at wagner, cps dot com. Okay, so go there. Get comfy. Cozy with the firm. It’s it’s. Other clients practices areas, etcetera. Then pick up the phone and i urge you talked to you eat huge tomb he’s a partner there. You know he’s. Been a guest here. You tell him what your needs are. He’ll listen. Tell us they can help you. No pressure, he’s. Not that way. Chatham up, he’s. Good people eat each tomb. Start at wagner cps dot com now time for tony’s. Take two. Summer is close. Very close. So now is the time to make the time for your time away. And i very much hope that that is going to include time off the grid. No e mail, no phone, no. Any other contact with the online world, which is we’re going to talk about the in rio in real life world very shortly. No contact with that online world. Get away from it. At least for part of the time. My encouragement video is that tony martignetti dot com goodling dot com. Now hear this. I’m a safe too. Looked our founder of good link at goodland dot com non-profits connect with businesses that advanced their missions. When i want the best connections i listen to non-profit radio. Thank you, chief. Good link with a c l a and see the new marketplace. Where non-profits meet vendor’s. No cost to you. Your bridge, your connector to products and services. I’ve tried to help them get started. See what you think they could check him out. Good link with si dot com. Now i have to live. Listen love and the etcetera, etcetera. So just going down the line. Ottawa, ontario live. Listen love up to yu up north munich, germany. Good dog. Uh, lou salome does california, waterbury, connecticut, brooklyn, new york, new york, new york, las vegas, nevada. Lovett, tampa, florida live listener love to each of those people, places and cities on the podcast pleasantries to our over twelve thousand on the podcast we might be pushing thirteen. You know, i haven’t looked lately, but i get a suspicion from another’s metric. Ah, so glad that you were with us. Podcast podcast audience the pleasantries go out to you and the affiliate affections toe am and fm am and fm listeners throughout the country affections to you as well. Now time for emily patterson and digitally track your hyre l work. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc from new orleans, louisiana, at the convention center. This interview is sponsored by network for good. Easy to use. Donorsearch monisha meant and fund-raising software for non-profits. My guest is emily patterson she’s, founder of be measured. Welcome, emily. Hello. Thanks for having me come back. Because we i talked to you yesterday too. I was part of a panel. Now you’re solo. Good to have you. Yes, my pleasure. And your topic. This time for today is track your non-profits i r l work digitally. You love digital thatyou love data, right? You’re in, you’re in data deep. Yep. I am a data fiend. Okay, i think your session description may have said data data. Geico data nerd. You know so many where it’s cool to be a nerd now i definitely yes, it absolutely is. Ten years ago, even five years ago, it was not so cool. Yeah, absolutely is. Read the twitter profiles so many of them say geek nerd yes, yeah, i always tell people i do the nerdy side of marketing so it’s off in the stuff that other people you know don’t want to do. Because it’s not creative, it involves lots of excel. Okay, but you’re in it. And you love wonderful. All right, so what what’s? Why do we need this session? It’s just break it down. What what’s so what’s so important here is not getting done quite right. You feel so? I mean, the just rolling up our sleeves if you don’t watch in the video she’s rolling up the sleeves, okay? We’re getting into it. No. Excellent. My inspiration was that there’s. So many tools to track online what you’re doing, you know, if you’re putting out stuff on social media or your website or email or basically anything that’s on the internet or digital talk, did digitalized weight t think of anything that’s online? It’s still easy to track, you know, it’s probably harder to figure out what data to be looking at or to pick a vendor to track it than it is to actually get the data that’s the easy part, but a lot of non-profits i would say almost all of them, i mean, they’re not just based on line, they have a lot going on on the ground, too, you know, the people that they’re trying to serve, they live rial lives there, sometimes interacting with computers or their cell phones, but they’re doing a lot in their regular life to that you want to know about. So this was toe look at a couple of different case studies for how non-profits in two totally different fields? S o we had conservation and then consumer protection about how they built these digital platforms and then got people to report on what they were doing in their real lives into them and then so they could get the data. Teo, create more educational content or depress outreach or, you know, tweak their programs that they were more effective. So it’s pretty cool. Okay, so, what’s, the best way to go into the show. We just should we go right into the case studies that you have a way to relay cem groundwork even more first. What do you feel? You think we’re ready for the case studies? I mean, there was a couple i could talk a little bit about similarities between the problems that they faced. Or maybe i should explain the case studies first. Ok, let’s, do the case study. All right. So now i saw three in your description is just too well that you two have america forest new dream in the better business bureau. We’re focusing on two out of three. Yeah, so i had better business bureau and american force foundation. And there is two projects for american force foundation that were, you know, kind of. Couple clolery okay. The new dream is out. Yeah. New dream. They were unable to attend the conference. Fortunately, turned into a nightmare. So wait. Although they’re very nice there’s still sleeping. You dream is still sleeping. Okay. Let’s do america first. So america, i’m sorry. Murcott forest. What can we what can we learn from that? What was the story there? So american forest foundation there non-profit that serves people who own forested land of ten acres or more. So it’s a very specific audience. Unfortunate it’s also very hard to reach audience because it’s not like you can just by an email list or going for on facebook and, you know, just target this demographic because, i mean, what do they have in common is how do we know who owns for us, huh? So if they’re not publicly owned, okay, so american forest foundation, they’re always trying to get data from these people about, you know, you know, what do they care about? What are they doing on their land? Because ultimately, they want teo get them more involved in conservation activities, especially in the on the east coast of the us. We think about forestland, force land is, you know, being part of a national park or a state park. But actually, a lot of it is owned by thieves. Private landowner. So might be people who inherited it from there their families or it’s a vacation property. So it’s, lots of smile parcels and, you know, it’s important at that time, akers could be minimum minimum ten acres. There are small. Yeah. So it’s important for them to know. And they’re geographically dispersed right over the country. Or is this international organization or this is the us? Us. Ok, but they’re all over the country, obviously, all right. Nor they’re all over the country. But it’s a lot of people, especially on the east coast. Yeah. Okay. Oh, really? A lot. Mostly these interesting. I would’ve thought mostly western or at least midwest. No. Ah, well, there’s. Not that many for forest land. Not just private driving ownership. Okay. Forest land? Yes. Okay. There’s. A lot more nationally. Own land and thoughtful and setting me straight. Okay. Yes, there is a lot more force. Like fairies are important too. I’m sure. Alright, but we’re not dealing with america prairie. Okay, there might be a different non-profit. Go ahead, please. Anyway, so geever a lot of people, you know, in the land, and they just kind of sit on it. Where? There. There are things that they need to be doing to take good care of it personally, i’m not a forrester, so i can’t go into great detail. But, you know, to improve water quality and animal habitat and protect against forest fires, lots different things. So american force foundation is always trying to reach these people, and you get data from them about, you know what they’re doing on their land and how best to get them to take these actions. So they have a couple of products. The website i was talking about was my land plan and it’s kind of part. It sprung out of a survey that the, um, national forest service did back in, like twenty eleven or so talk to these small landowners, and they found that, you know, they they didn’t really have a lot of good information about forestry that was catering to them. It was very written for a very professional level audience. They didn’t have a lot of good tools to understand what they needed to do, so they built this website for this audience. You know, to be a tool for them. My land plan. Okay, sell. How did they, how did they drop people, too? This site, with the constituency being so difficult, identify how they get people to my land plan. Yeah, that was definitely the challenge. Through ah, a lot of adjusting and a lot of facebook ads honestly ended up being one of the best ways to our get to them. So i know there’s a lot of kind of facebook ads, there’s a lot of bread press going on with them right now, way, i’m not sure when this is going to air, but we’re in the air in the week when mark zuckerberg is testifying two days before different congressional committees about facebook’s collaboration or whatever i work with cambridge analytica and also the russian hacking. So justo filled listeners and i don’t know when we’re going to be airing this, but it may be a couple months from now, but just hearken back to that’s. What emily’s referring to this is mark zuckerberg week in washington d c okay, please, no. Yeah, i mean so. Yeah. One hand. I understand. Where? That’s? Yeah. Where that’s coming from. However, at least one having worked with ff actually, at this point, i used to work for a photo. And then anyway, this is a couple of years ago. So we tried all sorts of different ways of marketing this site. Buying advertising and local newspapers in certain areas where we wanted to reach those landowners buy-in email lists and facebook ads were by bar in a way, the most effective way to reach people when we tested a lot of different messages and it’s kind of ironic, but the hunting message targeting people who are interested in hunting, who we’re interested in improving their land because they wanted to attract more turkeys or deer elk. Teo ended up being the most effective way we were able, tio get new sign ups for the site, but the person who is in charge of this program is a vegetarian, so it was always paying her to be writing these he’s hunting and all right, so so they that’s how they got people to the site and then what’s the what’s the lesson we can learn from from a f f thiss survey site, so it didn’t really start off as a way to collect data about landowners, but we quickly realized, like, what a great treasure trove it wass we have set up a lot of tracking using both google analytics and then also, you know, because it’s a platform where people can come in and they can identify, you know, what goals they have for their land. They can map their land. They can select, like, almost like a project management type tool that they want. Teo, you know, they do this or that in there. Future. I’m listselect future projects. So we have all of this information. And we know where in the country these people are and we know, um, you know what, what sorts of things they have on their land, how many acres, you know, have these certain activities identified with a lot of information for them. So kind of in the meantime, american force foundation is transition to focus more moron lesson. Finding every single landowner in the us and communicating with all of them to focusing on landowners in certain areas that have kind of priority projects like theirs. You know, certain parts of the country where there’s, you know, type of tree that really needs to be rehabilitated because it’s a home for a certain type of wildlife, i want you. I want to explain this to me like you’re talking to your friend. Okay, okay. Duitz you know, just, you know, let’s, drill down. So what if you if if i was asking you what you know what? One of the lessons i can learn from this case? What, what, what can we learn? Just help me get to the bottom. I’m going to get to the bottom line of what’s the value for listeners. In studying this case, what can we learn about their use of data up? In-kind let me think about it. Okay, well, you know, so so you know, in terms of hyre what? What was the what? I guess? What was the value to the organisation for collecting all this different type of data? About size and what’s on it now, and what their future plans might be mean? How did they how did how did ff then use the data? I’m trying to get out? Yeah, so right now they’re, you know, kind of like i said, focusing on certain areas of the country so it’s, pretty cool because you can they’re very interested in measuring whether something was effective or not. So with forestry it’s hard to tell, if you know, like ultimately their end goal here is to, you know, grow, re grow up a type of forest, but that’s a goal. That’s, you know, one hundred years out. So my lamp has been a great way of seeing, like, are people taking kind of intermediate level actions to kind of get them to this bigger endgame? So, you know, we don’t previously, you know, you might be sending people surveys in the mail to ask them, you know, have you done? X y z or they would, you know, schedule a visit with, like, with a forester. That was another big thing. You know, those are all very time consuming to measure, you know, anything that involves the mail or in person visits are super expensive and, you know, just very teo. So this was kind of a way for, you know, people to proactively go online and do some self reporting on those actions. And so then they’re so enormously scalable. Targetable you, khun, drive people from certain regions to there? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So now you have all these people in this platform, and we know they live in a certain area so you can see if they get thes e mails, messages from their local forestry department saying, like, hey, you need to do this stuff on your lands, go to the platform, you know, i read about it. Then schedule this thing, you know, now we have the ability to track that whole process and be able to see okay, five percent of the people who got this e mail did x y z. You know, previously they had no idea. You know, people might get a postcard in the mail a postcard in the mail saying they need to do something or visit from a forestry professional. And you know who knows what happened with that. Okay. Got to take a break. Tell us i have this tello’s moughniyah lll quote tell us, has opened up a whole new stream of donations for our non-profit. It has allowed business owners to support us without any additional cost to the company. That’s barry dodson, founder of accelerate ministries. Whole new stream of donations. That’s. The long tail of passive revenue for you. Year after year. Do you need more revenue? Get started at tony dahna slash tony. Tell us now back to digitally tracked your iron will work. You built this site for people to go to it’s. Really sort of a survey. But it’s, not a male chimps survey, you know i mean it’s it’s. A lot friendlier and more interactive. So it’s not your it’s. Not what most people think of is a survey. No it’s. A little bit, i think it’s interesting because it’s a little bit of ah it’s. A little bit for the audience and then it’s also a little bit for the organization it’s a tool that useful for them, there’s a lot of information on there. But then it’s also, you know, gives data toe ff that they wouldn’t have otherwise. S o i think, you know, that’s definitely. One of the lessons is you can’t create a platform that’s just hey, give us a bunch of data about yourself because most likely people aren’t going toe really wantto participate in that. So there has to be an incentive for land value for them. Okay? Okay, very good. I think one of the things that affected you at the data that was interesting that people the users always really liked is they would dio kind of a report at the end of the year putting together hey, this is what was most popular on my land plan and send it out to the users. So it’s, kind of like, even though you’re giving us your data, you know, we’re doing stuff with it, like you get to see it too, and they, like, you know, people are always kind of nosy about what everyone else is doing. So shared results. Okay, very good any more? Anything else we should flush? Out about that one before we go, the better business bureau. That’s it. We covered it. Okay. Okay, how about the better business bureau story? All right, so there’s one is this one is totally different thing. This is about scams. What kind of scam? So and honestly, this one is a kind of an interesting mirror image to the other story. So better business bureau. They, you know, they of course report on businesses, but they also get a lot of people interested in reporting scams to them. And it was kind of always something that people would think of when they thought of the better business bureau about for a long time. They didn’t. They didn’t have anything to do. They didn’t have any way for people to report if they had been contacted by a scammer had fallen for a scam. They only did legitimate businesses and complaints against real businesses that exists. We’re talking about mail scams, email scams, phone scam. Pretty much any type of scale. Okay, not just business scams. Yeah, right. Not just a fraudulent business. Okay, so it would be something like, you know, somebody might contact you pretending to be a real business like you get an email from someone saying, oh, you know, this is capital one. You need to update your password please click on this link and then enter yourselves security number and your mother’s maiden name. Why stop there? Both date of birth would be nice to be needed to have that also. Okay, so they didn’t have a capacity for collecting all this. Then obviously, they want to turn around and help consumers. All right, so so what do they do? Yes. So they do, you know, do a lot of consumer education. So so they build on a platform, you know, just like american forest foundation. But this time, instead of people reporting on their land, its people reporting on their scams. So it’s called bbb scam tracker and you have you, you know, cia facebook scam. Just bring up space. Look again. Or you you get called by some on the phone. You go there and you fill out this form, has information about you know, what was the business that contacted you? What was the method? They have classifications of different scam. So, it’s, basically some information about your your age and location. Whether you’re a member of the military, ah lot of different fields that they used for reporting, you feel that all out and you felt the scam details and then it goes into a database and unfortunately, baby is not a yeah, you know, police, so they unfortunately can’t investigate and arrest anybody, but they’ve been using this for, you know, consumer education would create a lot of contents with it, you know, the it’s all open to the press, you know, not your personal details, but reporters will go in there to find victims so that they could do stories help alert people about, you know, these scams because honestly, i think, like, awareness just knowing like this is out there, don’t click on this is the most important thing. What kind of content if they’ve been creating from it, you know, news articles, you know, it’s regularly, pretty in aa i was just working the other day because they’re one of my clients, too, you know, helping a reporter from cbs, you don’t find victims for for a story about, you know, a new scam, so that happens all the time they do alerts or anything as they see trends they say, you know, we’re seeing this special kind of phishing scam with this particular kind of phishing scam that they do consumer alerts also, yes, they dio in fraud. I know i’m the data person, but i actually write the alerts about scared. Okay? Fashion first. Okay. Okay, so, yeah, i mean, when i will go in there or i will get an email from one of the local bvs saying, you know, hey, we’re seeing a lot of phone calls from this are also a lot of reports on this certain thing and write a weekly alert about it. So this week, if you are interested, i can tell you about by what i wrote what’s happening this week. Go ahead. So, honestly, that it is i have been doing this for maybe eight years now, and it never stops like there’s, always some sort of new scam out there. And so this week it was, and scammers are if you leave a bunch of tabs open on your browser, which i do all the time, i got jammers. Scan if you have, like, a log in page, they can hack into your computer and up. You know, reload the website with a fake log in paige. So if you have, like, the log into your bank up there, the real instead of it being, you know, wells fargo dot com it’s now skim, skim scam dot com. But you don’t look at the girl so you can put in your log in information, and then now they have it covered, so don’t keep so don’t keep form form pages open means it only for loggins or could be and it could be any form. I suppose it could be any. Yeah. Ok, i suppose it could be any page, but they wanted to be a log in because that’s, where you’re going to be entering. Okay. Well, the information that i can tell it was a credit card purchase page. And then you went off to do some. You know what else to do? Research a comparative price somewhere else in the meantime. Okay, but keep your keep your keep your form. Tabs clothes don’t keep. Don’t keep tabs. Yeah. You know, we just don’t pay that much attention to what’s going on. I am guilty of this, too. Yeah. So always double check the girls, before you enter in operation. Okay. But baby does a lot of research to with the information that they collect. So they publish. You know, a yearly survey about yearly report on called the bubi annual scam report or something and it’s all about people who you know what data they have seen, what different demographics are affected by scams. You know what? What types of scams are trending? All sorts of they have. Ah, research department. Who handles this? Sal krauz okay, you want to give us closing thoughts and we’re going to wrap up closing thoughts about, you know, just about the topic. Generally. Why? Why? It’s important, teo track what’s going on in real life using digital data. Yeah. So i think having the data in a in a digital for data of courses are always a existed through surveys. O r, you know, people on recording things on paper to having a digital way is it makes just just so much more useful, like so much more accessible. So you can have. You know, neither of these organizations. Bebe is national. But, you know, they only have a few people in their in their national office working on the sort of thing. So you can, with a smaller staff, be able to produce, you know, some really interesting project. Products with your with your date that you’re collecting if you have it in a central location, and if you’re able to get your people who are spread out all over the place, tio. Report. What’s going on in their lives, you know, i’m just a contractor for baby. I spend only a couple hours a week writing these scam alerts, but it’s, because i have all that information in one place i don’t have to, like, call up people from all over the country. Teo, to get this. And because of that, you know, were able to get, you know, lots of press, pick up outreach and just do a lot more education. So even though it seems like a big expense to build these platforms, you know, i definitely think it’s worth it. If it’s a part of your mission. Yeah, if you have a lot of especially a lot of educational. If you have a big educational mission where you’re tryingto reach a lot of people, data is now really important, you know? I think good, we’re gonna leave it there, and it was important way opened with we opened with data data nerd and never got close with the importance of data. She’s emily paterson, founder of be measured that’s b e measure and this is twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur provoc technology conference all our interviews here are sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits thank you very much, emily. Thanks. You’re welcome. Thank you for being with us next week. More special wisdom from the non-profit technology conference. If you missed any part of today’s show i d seat you find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers witness cps dot com and by tello’s, credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line. Producer shows social media is by susan chavez. 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