My Guest:
Brandon Smith: Peer-To-Peer For 2021
David Hessekiel returns with a look at this year’s P2P prospects. But not before a survey of the P2P carnage that was 2020. There are distinct opportunities for 2021 and David shares the collective advice of thought leaders and practitioners. He’s the founder of Peer-to-Peer Professional Forum.
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Transcript for 522_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20210125.mp3
It’s great to be back, tony. [00:02:16.77] spk_1:
It’s a genuine pleasure. Good to have you after after probably too many years. I’m sorry for that. But here we are now. So no, no more lamentations [00:02:24.90] spk_0:
about no time like the present [00:02:37.34] spk_1:
to talk about peer to peer. Um, first, just acquaint us with you’ve got You’ve got three organizations there. You got the Cause Marketing Forum. You got the peer to peer professional forum and you’ve got engaged for good way. Know what they’re doing generally, but drill down a little bit. Eso listeners understand what [00:02:43.62] spk_0:
your marketing forum is really just the the holding company for all for these two endeavors a [00:02:54.60] spk_1:
shell company. That’s where your that’s where you really tax money enough [00:02:59.56] spk_0:
money to be dealing with the Cayman Islands and all of that. Alright, alright. It isn’t that interesting [00:03:01.54] spk_1:
about that, Okay? [00:04:09.54] spk_0:
Actually, originally, I started the company with the conference that was called Cause Marketing Forum, All about how businesses and nonprofits could work together. Over over the years, that area of interest morphed. And so the words cause marketing became a little dated. And so we changed to engage for good, because businesses are now looking more holistically at the whole field of how they can have values and do purpose driven work. Creating a better world while still being faithful to their bottom lines. And so that now involves not only consumer facing programs but programs designed to attract and retain and motivate employees activism on the national and international scale. And a lot more, um, peer to peer professional form. I’m a big name changer. I started that one back in 2000 and seven as the Run Walk Ride Fundraising Council because I think that many of your your listeners will be familiar with the term peer to peer fundraising. But way back in 2000 and six, when I was really pondering this, that didn’t exist. People never use that free we [00:04:24.73] spk_1:
didn’t say Peter P a peer to peer. So run, walk, run, walk rides. [00:05:11.44] spk_0:
So I tried to come up with the title that would telegraph what we were talking about. Um, and it took a number of years, but we picked up steam when peered appear became a a common phrase we re branded, and I learned something very interesting along the way. That is a lesson for us all. I learned we had a huge spike in the number of people who came to our conferences, listen to our stuff after we made that change. And I mean, it’s a great It was a great rebranding, but it wasn’t that great. And I was learning that certain people were being so literal that they were saying, Well, if I don’t have a run or walk or a ride, I’m not invited to the party. [00:05:17.16] spk_1:
E can’t do a dance. [00:06:18.34] spk_0:
Exactly where is really what we’re talking about? Is this amazing engine off fundraising and community development in which a non profit has its supporters get involved in some activity and then reach out to their networks to get support, as opposed to the traditional form in which most fundraising takes place where the non profit directly makes an ask in many different ways individual giving, legacy, giving all sorts of different campaigns here. They’re using that power of that network to get money from people who who they probably would never have talked to because they weren’t particularly interested. But those relationships create a lot of opportunity. And so a peer to peer professional forum We actually held our last conference the last week of February. [00:06:22.04] spk_1:
Got it right in. We [00:06:23.37] spk_0:
were so lucky. In fact, although the pandemic was mentioned in a couple of panels, we had no idea. Of course, tsunami that was approaching us. [00:06:37.36] spk_1:
You were two weeks lucky or two or three weeks luckier than in 10, and had Thio canceled, canceled their conference and scrambling. Do what? Do what they could thio put online. [00:07:00.84] spk_0:
I’d like to say that I was smart. I was just in that case, that was very, very 40. Yeah, way had 650 plus people that with largest conference we’ve ever had, and I speak with a lot of these people frequently, And if I had a dollar for every time somebody said to me, Oh, my gosh. The last business trip I took was to be with you in Austin. Yeah, I could retire. Yeah, well, [00:07:14.76] spk_1:
you have to have 650 bucks. You live meagerly in Rye, New York. If you could retire on $650 a dollar from each one, I’ll give you $10 for each one. You still wouldn’t be able to retire. Six. Its’s a metaphor. It’s an aphorism. Yes, I understand. But you know, I take aphorisms literally. Unless I’m the one using them. And then Then what? You’re being silly. Where you taking me literally for? There’s no winning. There’s no way, because I do. Whatever the hell, it’s nice to post, and [00:07:42.56] spk_0:
it’s nice to be king. So you’re the host. What do you [00:07:55.74] spk_1:
say? I’m the host. I’m the king. Yeah, that’s good. I should use King King non profit radio. All right, so, so much a peer to peer is online that there was virtually no impact on the on peer to peer fundraising throughout. 2020 right? It was already online. I’m [00:10:08.04] spk_0:
sorry you’ve low star game because that’s absolutely not true. Oh, my gosh. It was so a zay said once in a part of time, we were called the Run Walk Ride Fundraising Council, and in one sense, you are right, which is that off all forms of fundraising. The group, the area that perhaps has the deepest penetration of fundraising being conducted online, maybe peer to peer because people who are involved in these types of programs will reach out and use email and social media to collect all of those often smaller contributions. So there is a great penetration, but most of the activity has an analog sort of physical component in the real world, although the balance is changing. Walks, for example, mass gatherings of people, thousands of them every year. We started off in February going okay, It’s getting to be spring walk season. Let’s get going. We’re good luck this season and within a month, basically, this spring, the spring season was completely canceled and everybody was scrambling to create some sort of virtual experience so that they would be able to continue to do that fundraising and then within another couple of months, because we all thought we all hope that we all thought in the early days Well, all right, this is a pandemic. But how long could it last? So we were optimistic that fall programs would happen because these types of programs are very weighted towards the spring and the fall. In a lot of the country, it’s too hot or people are away on vacation, so they don’t do as much of this summer anyway, This the fall went away, and so there was a mad scramble to come up with alternatives to what they had traditionally done [00:10:15.99] spk_1:
right. And you’ve got some recognition for folks that did that particularly. Well, just just give us some perspective about what? What, what these these cancelations in spring and fall meant to the community nation. [00:12:14.64] spk_0:
So you know it’s been interesting were one of our best known pieces of research is the called the Top 30 Report. We do a study in which we look at it. The 30 largest programs we do, one actually in the US and we do another one in Canada, and over the first few years that I was involved with this field, we were doing very nicely. The collapse financial collapse happened in 2000 and 8, 2009, and we’ve actually had negative numbers for nearly every year since then. But when you group them all together, it’s usually a couple of percent. Maybe. And I was hoping that this coming year would be the year that we would actually finally have black ink and produce a report that said it was going to that it was positive on General. Well, nothing could be further than the truth, because nonprofits, uh, through no fault of their own, like all of us, in different aspects of our lives, you know, you promised People X they were used to doing X, and now all of a sudden X for 95% of the situations was impossible to do, and so they would create virtual. And anyway, we found out that I’m using a general term that is about a 50% drop off in the amount of money that they raised from these programs. It really like any average. It’s an average. So you had some that were in the 70 80% of recapturing what they had expected to raise, or at least how much they raised the previous year. You have some in the forties, you have some that were canceled and you have a very few very, very, very few situations where they’re actually were physical programs. I actually I mean, there are more than non, but I know of one in particular. Uh, and it was it. It’s been a devastating year. [00:12:41.64] spk_1:
So you’ve got these three organizations that, um I don’t wanna really talk about them specifically, but name them that that you identified as having done particularly well in adapting. And then, you know, what can we learn from these in aggregate? [00:13:51.74] spk_0:
Eso It’s It’s again like everybody else. We’ve also had to make major changes the way that we share information. We upped tremendously the frequency off distance learning that we were providing through our organization because everybody was hungry for information and was locked in and they couldn’t go out. Um, and we have had a tradition over in recent years, off every year late, naming one organization as the peer to peer fundraising organization of the year and sort of looking at the totality of what they do. Sometimes it’s for one program. Sometimes it’s for ah group of programs, and as we looked at last year, we decided that it would be more instructive to look at a few examples of programs. He was a program within a program or otherwise that did well and use them as learn herbal moment. So we picked out three, and each of them illustrates a different point. [00:14:35.24] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times Do you wanna be in papers like that? How about CBS Market Watch? The Chronicle of Philanthropy? Turn two has the relationships with outlets like these, so that when they’re looking for experts on charitable giving, non profit trends or philanthropy, they call turn to turn two calls you turn hyphen two dot ceo now back to peer to peer for 2021 [00:16:46.64] spk_0:
In the case of there’s the L S Association off its Greater Chicago chapter, and even though they had a spring event as part of the large Ailes walk Siri’s, each chapter was sort of left to fend somewhat for themselves, and they made a fast move, which was one of the things that helped some groups and being having having difficulty making a decision and telling people what was coming up. The pike was a big problem for a lot of groups. Um, they said, Okay, there is not going to be a large Chicago walk. What? We know that a whole bunch of you have signed up. About 150 groups have signed up as teams in this case, largely family teams, people who have somebody afflicted with that terrible disease of ales. We want you to create neighborhood walks, and we are sending every one of you a walk in a box kit. Oh, it’s amazing that, you know, it’s ah, big box full of of instructions and door hangers to put around their neighborhood, explaining that they were gonna be walking and asking people to give and all sorts of fun, uplifting type of stuff shirts, etcetera. And they were able to got about 125 groups to actually walk. They had even some more grandiose plans which were defeated by the by the pandemic and by some of the unrest that was happening at the exact time that they were supposed to have their their program. They were going to send, uh, emissaries out to the neighborhood, walks and provide them with with cupcakes and have super It’s a superhero themed walk Superheroes gonna visit there weren’t allowed to send people out. But by giving people something, really, by generating excitement, you look with all the stuff we’ve got. They were able to I think they raised about 75% of what their previous total had been. So a less was so taken with their approach and some of the many smart things that they did that they encouraged and taught many of their other chapters to adopt some of their techniques and it stood them in good stead. And they’re and they’re planning to continue that for next [00:17:12.06] spk_1:
year. So innovation Is that what you were captured you about the [00:17:39.54] spk_0:
yes, there was association that all all of these in some way, shape or form of innovation. In this case, the easiest shorthand to say is if you can’t bring the people you know Mohammed to the mountain, bring the mountain to Mohammed where we are, they created some of the excitement. People do walks, not because walks air so exciting. I mean, it’s not like you’re going to the, you know, if you if you’ve decided, you’re going to do it, you’re a runner and your you’ve set yourself a personal goal and you’re doing a marathon. There’s a whole big exciting thing, but walks are neat, but people want to be able to congregate. Of course, be a part of a team. Well, that wasn’t possible is here. So they helped create some of that spirit by sending it out. So that was their innovation. [00:18:04.93] spk_1:
Bunch of a bunch of smaller communities. Instead of one big community of tens of thousands of people coming together, there were 100 25 communities that came together throughout throughout Greater Chicago. [00:19:21.04] spk_0:
You’re absolutely right. Will be Dana Farber, and Dana Farber does a number of amazing programs. One of their programs is the Jimmy Fund. Dana Farber has this amazing New England charity called The Jimmy Fund. There is called the Jimmy Fund Walk. David Dana Farber is a cancer research center, and what is best known about that walk it’s they’re based in Boston is that follows the route of the Boston Marathon. So for years, that was sort of what they lead with the excitement that you were actually going to be able to do the route off the marathon and all of a sudden, impossible can do that. And I think that they’re example. They were also able to have a strong performance. But it taught them a lesson about the importance of changing your messaging to never lose sight of the mission and the stories of the people and the impact that the people who are walking have. And by shifting that model of messaging to their supporters, it stood them in very good stead. And then the third group that we [00:19:28.00] spk_1:
wait before you move on. So what did they do in place of the walk? Uh, [00:20:11.04] spk_0:
of it A. And an encouragement to go out and walk on your own. Okay. They also created online ways to get involved and to be a part of, ah, a group program. But this was just a really good lesson in how strategically changing your marketing message makes a huge difference. And sometimes we way. It’s easy to get caught up in sort of the sizzle. And this was going back to the steak, which is the reason why you’re doing this. Yes, it’s very cool to be on the marathon route when you’re doing this to help save kids and others. We’ve got cancer [00:20:17.08] spk_1:
back to the why? Why? [00:22:26.34] spk_0:
Why? You sound like Simon cynic. And then the third group that we’re going Thio. Yeah, well, I’m a big admirer to the third one is, uh, the Terry Fox Foundation, which I don’t I imagine that many of your most of your listeners Air American in Canada. The Terry Fox Foundation is very well known. Terry Fox was a young man. I think this was back in the eighties, perhaps where who had cancer and he lost one of his legs. It was amputated and he decided to fight cancer to raise money by running across Canada. Very, very dramatic. Um, and he passed away, and they created this Terry Fox Foundation, which holds numerous walks and runs all across Canada. Once again, they went from a group that does almost 1000 events. Ah, year to one that couldn’t hold any in person. And there’s is an example. We’re really honoring them for having the guts to complete what they had it planned. Terry Fox. An amazing organization. One of the largest peer to peer fundraisers in Canada, but also a very traditional organization. And frankly, and they have said to us not as digitized and in their approach to doing business as most other leading nonprofits were. And they had made a decision in the previous year to make a major pushing how they acted and in reaching out to their supporters via digital means and raising money digitally of doing all of that in a very new and much more modern way. And many organizations with all of the change that was coming down the pike as the pandemic swept through the industry, would have said, Oh my gosh, this is not the year to do a major all overhaul of all of our systems. And instead the Terry Fox folks said, You know what? Let’s stick to the course. Let’s do this They did. It was very successful and all the more helpful to have that digital communication and fundraising in a time when you can’t get together and they recruit about forgetting the exact number. But this sort of like seven of the $8 million that they would have raised, they raised a large percentage of the money that they would have raised [00:23:04.84] spk_1:
a profile encourage for doing something audacious, right at a time when a lot of organizations might not have, but they saw the need. Yeah, great. And they seized it. Absolutely. So let’s zoom. Let’s look forward then. So, though Well, those three organizations gonna be honored right at the march. You gotta You gotta March conference coming up. The people could find find out about the conference where [00:23:28.24] spk_0:
they will go to peer to peer forum dot com. And they will find out about this event that we’re holding Thea er Noon, Eastern time, March 1st, 2nd and 3rd with a great love or information on overview off the field as well as very this very specifics off. If you do walks or if you are a hospital or if you do cycling events, there are special breakout sessions for all of those and more. [00:26:07.97] spk_1:
It’s time for tony steak, too. We’ve calmed down Well, maybe I should say I’ve calmed down to events, seemed to have turned down the national temperature or at least turn down my temperature. Maybe I’m extrapolating from myself for everybody. Maybe that’s unfair. Although I am the center of the universe, we know that non profit radio is here with me non profit radio and I are the center of the universe. So maybe I’m not being unfair, but so maybe it’s more what I’m feeling. These two, these two things these two events seem to have have calmed me, and maybe they have calmed the nation. Donald Trump silenced on Twitter and the inauguration. I’m getting fewer news alerts. I’m not looking at my phone as much. I don’t feel sort of, like, agitated on and compelled to investigate headlines like I did before those two events. Um, so again, like I’ve said three times already, uh, maybe it’s just me. So maybe this is a little therapy session. No, I don’t I don’t mean non profit radio would be therapy. If it is, I’m in a lot of trouble. I’m not getting my money’s worth. I I feel I feel a difference. I feel a difference in the in in Communist and increased Communists and decreased agitation. And maybe that’s the national temperature as well. I’m not sure, but I’m sharing with you what I’m feeling since those two things. And that is Tony’s Take two. Now let us return to peer to peer for 2021 with David Hezekiel. Let’s look forward then David has skill. What do you think 2021 is looking like you had some piece in Forbes that makes some predictions from powerhouse people in peer to peer. Lots of lots of, uh, liberation there. Powerhouses in peer to peer productivity and and and And what? Pastrami, pastrami and prodigious nous. So what do your engagement is one thing e talking about? I [00:26:12.65] spk_0:
wish, tony that your listeners could see a visual right now because you can see that I’ve got a large crystal wall that I am looking into peering into because this is where I get most of my forecasts and predictions. But believe me, [00:26:36.60] spk_1:
yeah, well, know that Forbes piece was based on lots of other people like non profit radio. I’m not I’m not the expert here. I’m just a bulletin board that you post things on my forehead. And then I put them out for our listeners Thio to pick up on. [00:26:48.80] spk_0:
Yes, I didn’t put any of my predictions, but I will tell you that it was fascinating to dio to do this, so I don’t know what when this airs. Uh, but [00:27:00.08] spk_1:
there the week of January 25th [00:27:48.14] spk_0:
next week. Monday uh, I literally just stepped away from I work in the home office. I guess we all are sort of working in home offices now. And I just watched the inauguration. Yes, very touching. Ah, nde There was no, uh no messing around. No gilding the lily. There’s tough times ahead. And the, you know, vaccination program seems to be absolutely key to really being able to unleash the economic power off all sorts of activity. And this area is is no different because [00:28:00.44] spk_1:
all the more actually Z originated has run, walk, ride. So you made very clear there is still an important in real life component to peer to peer fundraising. [00:30:15.20] spk_0:
So when we get to the some of those prognostications in the past But we did a survey some months ago asking people what were they thinking was going to be the shape of their programs next year. The overwhelming majority were saying, Well, we’re hoping that we will have what what what have become the term has has become hybrid programs. They would like to have physical programs, but especially for the spring. I mean, you know, we’re coming up against the big traditionally many programs started in March in the warmer climes were very big in April and May, and the vaccination roll out is just not happening that fast. Eso uh there is the feeling that there may be the opportunity to not re constitute as okay, we’re gonna have 5000 people gathered together to do a major walk. But we may be able to say, Okay, well, certain of you, this will continue to be a virtual experience. But we also have an element of this where we’re perhaps organized much smaller experience, socially distant experience. Maybe you need to reach a certain level of fundraising and then you can come to a gathering that those combinations are called hybrids. And I think there’s going to be, ah, huge amount of that also because one of the thio, almost a person when I talked to speak people in this field to say the most maddening aspect of what’s going on is it’s so hard to plan because we just don’t know when the all clear will be sounded and we can go back to living is normal. So if you plan for ah hybrid with the realization that if things get better it could be more physical. And if things go to heck, it could be mawr or completely Virtual is the posture that most are taking. There’s some hope. One of the people that we interviewed was Jennifer Lee leads the peer to peer effort at the National and s Society, one of the major peer to peer fundraising America. And she is guardedly guardedly optimistic that in the fall there will be much more of a physical presence in these programs. Um, so that is one [00:30:36.42] spk_1:
your hybrid and and hybrid, and I just built into that is, be flexible. [00:32:39.94] spk_0:
Yes, The second thing that comes loud and clear is that virtual if your idea of virtual is just saying, well, we really can’t do anything, so just give that ain’t gonna cut it e mean there were certain that’s really just like asking for donation, which, of course, all of these groups do in spades. But if it’s a peer to peer program, it’s a very difficult thing to get a lot of people enthusiastic if there’s no there there. So a lot of investment needs to be made in making virtual, uh, in some way inspiring enabling groups to come together to have that feeling of community giving them props that bring the thing toe life such as we talked about with the L s associations. Example. Um, yeah. On then, we have a wonderful contributor who will be speaking at this This year’s conference. Nicole Dolan works for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. And she said one of the lessons she learned along the way and that they are working on very hard is you need to give people, uh, concrete things that they need to do. Give them assignments, sign up for this email, Come to this meeting, uh, post on social media. You know, be a part of what’s going on because your best supporters will react to that. And it’s much more fulfilling for them to actually get involved. Then if you just sort of give them a blanket. Okay, well, you know, go off and figure it out. That will not work. So are you. [00:33:57.14] spk_1:
Are you, uh I’m having a deja vu moment right now. I’ve dreamed about you. Are you related? Do you have any? Yeah. Connection to Minnesota? No. Why? Well, I don’t know. Because of what I’m asking because of my deja vu experience. There was something related to Minnesota in in the dream that I had when you and I were talking. Uh, all right. I was hoping you could validate my dream, but all right, there was some There was some connection with Minnesota. And you in our conversation, maybe was just asking. I’ve been on the secretary. Alright. But I am. I am. It’s over now. It’s over now, so I don’t know where we’re headed. I can’t say, um the so I mean, the other advantage Thio keeping that virtual engagement is that you can you can bring in those folks that joined you in 2020 who could not have joined you in a real life event. So you don’t wanna You don’t want to just kind of, I guess, you know, move them to a strict campaign, you know, digital giving platform or or or channel, I should say, when their their initial engagement was around an event. So if you if you keep the hybrid and you stay flexible and you you work on engagement like you’re describing, um you can keep those people involved in a in an event fashion even though there may be hundreds of miles away from you. [00:37:38.77] spk_0:
Yes, well, I think that the higher level, more sophisticated incarnation of this type of activity has always said that you work at segmenting. You don’t treat everybody as equal where all God’s Children and when you treat them all well. But your top 20% for example, of fundraisers. That’s where you know there’s sort of an 80 20 rule. They will raise the overwhelming majority of your funds, and you should be giving them a lot of attention. There’s a lot of people in the walk world, especially who come who show up where your T shirt to eat a banana, but actually don’t raise any money. And they feel like, Well, it’s a community activity and we wanna be involved were not fundraisers, Um similarly Paul Purty of the American Cancer Society, who is also speaking at our conference. He makes the point that he’s done a huge amount of experimentation and trying different virtual approaches, and one of their lessons is really think about this as an on boarding ramp for finding people who are passionate about your cause, and then you do the segmentation necessary to figure out how to keep them involved, perhaps in a virtual way, or whether they are good candidates for trying your physical event. When you can hold that well. Or maybe there will be a supportive of your charity, you know, completely different way. Maybe they could become great volunteers or maybe substantial individual givers. So this whole on boarding and shepherding, stewarding off, peer to peer and seeing it as an on ramp to building your funnel of of supporters is very important. And virtual will never go back to being sort of the very weak excuse of saying, Oh yes, we have a virtual program. But there was really no there there. It was just a way of saying, Well, if you live far away and you wanna be supportive of other people, you could say you’re a virtual walker. Now there are people, and interesting. We had a weapon or the other day featuring people from Good United who also worked with the American Cancer Society and had a wonderful speaker, Dan Thorpe, from there and what they They are using a whole mixture off using Facebook social media advertising to find people who would be interested in a geo particular geographic area at getting involved in a a squat challenge or a individualized walk or run challenge, et cetera, and using the Facebook milieu to get them involved in to get them fundraising. They had tremendous success with that. What they feel that most of those people will have to be will probably be kept involved by reaching out to them again through that social media connection they made. Two. It’s almost It’s a little strong to say this, but it’s almost like a bait and switch. If you try to say Okay, well, you’re a social media. Uh uh, you like to communicate this way. Now we want to take you off of social media and communicate with you via email and have you go to a physical event with a lot of other people, where you have not demonstrated that you necessarily want to do that [00:37:51.42] spk_1:
radio meet people where they are. It not where you would like them to be and come meet you. Um, squat challenge makes my thighs tremble because I’ve been doing jump squats. It’s only my thighs. Don’t don’t get to accept, you know, just thighs trembling that stops there. Um uh, doing jump squats as part of my homework out. [00:38:20.61] spk_0:
I’m impressed because I try to do Burpees Oh, my God. [00:38:47.12] spk_1:
Things. Oh, and then do split, jump squats Those things are rough toward the end toward the end of a set. Oh, are a bunch of reps. I’m more like It’s more like standing on your toes instead of jumping like stand on your toe and squat squat So squat challenges I got a little this. I got a visceral queen. Visceral reaction when mentioned squat challenges [00:38:48.28] spk_0:
trying not to use any untoward vocabulary again. I don’t want to scare you, tony. [00:40:30.01] spk_1:
Well, you wouldn’t know my hyper sensitivities. Uh, if that was gonna be the case, we have to wrap up right now. It is a lot. I got more tony go from or much of issues. Time for our last break. Quote. There’s nothing as simple as dot drives. Our executive team meets once per week to sit down and go through our dot drives pipelines. It’s fun to watch them have a healthy dialogue and to see them get excited about their numbers rising toward their goals, you could feel this person’s excitement. You can feel her excitement at witnessing this dot drives has allowed us to take those key relationships and bring them to a deeper level. End quote. That’s Wendy Adams, director of donor engagement at Patrick Henry. Family Service is dot drives Prospect to donor Simplified. Get the free demo for listeners. There’s also a free month. You go to the listener landing page at we’ve got but loads more time for peer to peer for 2021 you got you got also your your thought Leaders in peer to peer had ideas and about not surprising. I mean, we hear this in a lot of a lot of realms. I certainly, uh um in foundation and even corporate fundraising as well. But collaborations be collaborative. Reach out, reach out across your community. Maybe it’s across the country. Be collaborative. [00:40:43.41] spk_0:
Well, it s so funny that you mentioned that because I literally had a conversation yesterday with with one of the speakers for Thea upcoming conference. And what she was saying is that you know as much as there is, it’s [00:40:46.61] spk_1:
not funny. David, this is all planned. There’s nothing funny about it. You got coming in. Think I didn’t. You know, You think I didn’t talk to the people you’ve spoken to in the past two weeks to find out about you? This is this. This doesn’t just come together. I’m a little I’m a little offended. I’m a little I’m disappointed. More than offended. Go ahead. [00:42:18.70] spk_0:
Looking for the silver linings? One of the things that she had been particularly, uh, happy about Waas. That there was a lot of sharing. I mean, although many of us feel zoomed out of our minds, the fact that groups off people who knew each other but worked at different organizations were getting together We’re asking one another’s questions. Um, they were going to some some programming that we created in which there was a lot of sharing has really helped folks get through this very, very difficult, uh, period. So I think that there is collaboration, and for me, it’s such a delight to see, because when I started this group, there was such trepidation that if you went to a conference and you talked about how you held your event sarees, everybody would be taking notes about some sort of secret sauce that you might have and they do that. And then all of a sudden, all of these people who have been raising money for just throwing cancer were suddenly begun to become heart association people because because they did, they did X, y or Z, and [00:42:21.14] spk_1:
his heart still still cancers ideas. And it’s all zero sum. And if you must be losing [00:42:38.40] spk_0:
its so much, not zero sum if you’re doing it right, because people do have an affinity, unfortunately, often for your particular cause. And so, uh, this this spirit of collaboration has just been growing and growing and [00:42:42.67] spk_1:
growing. Can you collaborate with if you’re If you’re in the in this peer to peer world who like who, Who could you be reaching out to? [00:43:57.40] spk_0:
Well, I think that one thing to do, I think in any field that you’re in is to be looking at other programs, seeing if there’s aspects of what they do that you admire, um, and and being you know, it’s it’s it’s taking that important first step of reaching out to others to find out who they are. One of the things that’s been a wonderful part of what we’ve been able to build is a community. You know, sometimes even figuring out who that person is isn’t easy. When were physically together. Uh, we literally leave a lot of time for networking so people can talk to one another and can share, since we’re so even within our organizations often siloed. But we’re very siloed from other other folks. It’s why, when we produced this upcoming event, we’ve created a lot of opportunities for using breakout functionality to have small group discussions to have actually one on one discussions, because people are hungry for opportunities to talk one on another, and we don’t all need to be inventing the wheel in parallel. There’s a lot of things that we can help each other out with, Uh, that won’t take away from us, but will hopefully make you know. And these people are working towards goals of trying to fight disease, fight hunger. Of course, it is wonderful to see some of this Kumbaya spirit brought to life. [00:45:15.59] spk_1:
Am I naive if I suggest that when we get back to in real life runs walk, run, run, walk, rides, whatever, whatever form it takes that a bunch of non profits in a community, we’re in a city could get together and host something together so that you know, if if my organization could probably only get 100 or 150 runners and walkers, whatever. But there’s another organization that could get 500 somebody else who could bring 75. And together we could get 2500 or 3000 or 5000 people Thio. And then we could have the synergy of working together with the local police to stop close the streets and they get the park permits, et cetera, and rent the banners that we need and the archways and the sound system. Is that Is that doable? [00:48:22.57] spk_0:
Yeah, Well, actually, you you you raise a really interesting point and we’re seeing some of that activity already start in different ways. So, for example, in Maryland, there is the Almond Foundation, which is a cancer foundation actually started by the family of Doug Ulman, who is the used to be the head of Live Strong is now head of paella Tonia, which is a tremendous cycling fundraiser that happens in Columbus, Ohio, back in Maryland, the when the pandemic struck the Almond Foundation, which has had a long history of raising money in a number of interesting ways through peer to peer fundraising, decided to create an event, sort of the all of the institutional work that is necessary to create the online presence and the digital fundraising systems, etcetera. And then, uh, opened this to numerous Maryland based charities, and they could have their people plug into this program. And, uh, I don’t don’t totally quote me, but I’m remembering, right there was virtually no cost to the charities to participate, other than to defray the costs that Almond was taking on to create this platform for everybody. They gave a certain percentage back toe, and Ullman wasn’t competing with them to get supporters. So that’s one example. Another example and donor drive was very involved in setting that all up donor drive being a platform company that non profit use to raise funds. Another example. Event 3 60 is a, uh, a production company, primarily very involved with peer to peer fundraising, and they have created something they call the five by five K for good. They piloted this this fall in Denver, and what they did was there a lot of people who are avid runners who want to get out avid supporters of charity. And they created event where you could run over the 24 hour period. Five different five K’s So in Toto, if you did it, yeah, you could run a basically a marathon and they had a number of different charities. It was open to any charity, and again there was. It was sort of free to enter, and then there was a certain percentage that helped defray the cost. So that went on in in Denver this fall. Um, so there There are a number of those, uh, those efforts already underway, and it’s going to be interesting to see, you know, it’s collaboration is great. It usually takes some entity to take a bold first step and sort of create something that others can get involved [00:48:33.05] spk_1:
with. That’s it. That’s the non profit. You just profiled the non profit radio listeners there, the bold ones you gotta be somebody’s gotta put a stake in the ground and say, Let’s Tze rally around this. [00:48:44.45] spk_0:
Yeah, and it’s a wonderful way of sharing costs and sharing opportunities that any one might not be able to do by itself, [00:48:53.81] spk_1:
right? Are you familiar with generosity? Siri’s? Yes. That [00:48:56.95] spk_0:
was the other one. They actually I [00:49:09.27] spk_1:
I used Thio. I used Thio. What’s it called? I didn’t I wasn’t their host. I was there. Uh, there M c. I was used to emcee the event. I probably am said I have a dozen in the New York Manhattan. [00:49:13.60] spk_0:
Other people? Yes, I know them. And I I have not been in touch with them recently. I have a feeling that the pandemic sort of, [00:49:29.95] spk_1:
uh I wonder because they were strictly e. I mean, they had a fundraising platform, but they were strictly real life events in exactly, also in Philadelphia. And they were trying to go beyond the Northeast. They’re just being just New York and Philadelphia. And [00:49:34.97] spk_0:
they were attracting numerous numerous charities, uh, to be ableto [00:49:39.81] spk_1:
Yeah, we have a dozen or so. Yeah, I introduced Steve Buscemi at one because he was really He’s from Brooklyn. So he was a visitor at one. We had somebody. The Brooklyn City Council? Uh, no. The Brooklyn, Brooklyn President, Borough President, President, President, book. That was a different event. Yeah, I did a couple of Manhattan a couple of Brooklyn, so I hope they’re still bound listeners. You could check out generosity Siri’s, because they were. They were looking to go nationwide on there. Pretty ambitious guys. David David, David Lind, [00:50:11.47] spk_0:
L I N N. [00:50:13.11] spk_1:
Lynn, David Lynn, right, David and Saul, David and Saul. So I was more in the background. David Lane, right? I hope they’re still doing well. But you could check out generosity. Siri’s Certainly if you’re in the New York or Philly area, because the I know they’ve done events there and I imagine they’re they’re smart and they’ll be coming back in 2021 2022. So [00:50:31.53] spk_0:
I’m going to reach out to them [00:50:47.36] spk_1:
generosity. Yeah, I will, too. All right, right. So there’s cause for optimism. Even though we don’t, you know, we got to stay flexible. We don’t know when that, uh, you know, when we’ll be ableto amass thousands of people together. But there are lots of opportunities to go beyond that. As as you describe [00:51:54.86] spk_0:
20 was a very painful learning year on, you know, again looking for silver linings. Uh, lots of groups learned about things that they could do in less staff, because unfortunately, many groups had to lay off staff, um, quicker than they’ve ever been used to and stretching and using technology in ways that they talked about for a long time. But now that it was a necessity, Ah, lot of them have made some of those investments in technology that will stand them in good stead in the year to come. So I don’t think that this is gonna be a banner year, but I think that the learnings from 2020 will stand us in in better stead to do better in 2021 then hopefully come roaring back in 2022 Because I’ve been trying to figure out tony, you you gotta help me with this. There’s got to be smarter, much smarter guys than I who are figuring out right now and gals, okay, The economy is gonna come back. We’re gonna be able to travel again, et cetera. What are the depressed stocks? And I should be buying right now to make a killing the floodgates open. [00:52:09.05] spk_1:
You’re asking the wrong guy. First of all, I don’t like guess to put me on the spot. That’s the first thing I’ll get past that. I’m willing to overlook it this time, [00:52:16.72] spk_0:
but I’ll never do [00:52:17.71] spk_1:
it. That’s why that’s why it’s been so many years since you’ve been back. I believe I remember distinctly. You did that six years ago. I remember the day I’m pretty sure was November 4th. [00:52:26.26] spk_0:
It was probably your dream, but Okay, [00:52:42.95] spk_1:
that was Minnesota. Now, that was strictly that was strictly a Minnesota thing. Yeah, but the other reason you’re aside from that, you know, if you look at my portfolio, you’d see you know, my my mantra is always buy high, sell low. So you don’t want stock advice from May? [00:52:44.68] spk_0:
Well, I guess the two of us will be working stiffs for quite over because I’ve got a similar profile. But I do think [00:52:54.03] spk_1:
I need some illicit income. That’s what I need. I need some of that came and came in high double money because I got I got too much of the income and not enough of the capital game. [00:53:34.55] spk_0:
I think that when you know, as I said before, sort of like the all clearest sounded. There is going to be such a penned up demand to get together with other, has celebrate and to do the good work that people are so dedicated to that they have such an emotional connection with, uh that, you know, hopefully, maybe at the end of 2021 but certainly 2022 should be should should really benefit from that. And so this year, we’re going to be revealing at at our conferences we do every year. What the [00:53:37.77] spk_1:
enough with Schilling of the conference. Now I’ll let you get away with it for, like, three times I said it. What was that? March? [00:54:13.14] spk_0:
But we’re going thio and let Ugo available on our site. You don’t have to pay Teoh get it? What is the results of the 2020 study that we dio in terms of the top 30 programs? And that will be a very somber moment because it’s gonna be terrible. The numbers are awful, however, as any good sales person who’s ever had a sales commission plan knows. What you want to do is you want to join up when they’ve had a terrible year, because the next year that you’re working off of a much smaller base, and so any gains that you have are accelerated. So I’m hoping you [00:54:19.41] spk_1:
go So apply that lesson to your stock market question. And now you’ve got your answer. There you go. I don’t know what to me. I don’t know what the answer is, but, you know, you get back to you, you have to take the next step on your own, [00:54:30.48] spk_0:
will get together with David Lynn will find him, and he’ll tell us what you think [00:54:34.80] spk_1:
of it On the microcosmic level. I mean, aren’t you dying? Thio have a dinner with friends [00:54:39.01] spk_0:
again. Just answered a survey was sort of a fun survey talking about great, you know, kind of kooky things. And but what were the questions was what are you most looking forward to when this is over? And I said going out to dinner with friends? [00:54:54.29] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. Hour and a half. No masks. Close table for four to [00:55:00.60] spk_0:
food. Could be awful. [00:55:04.94] spk_1:
Yeah, Yeah, we have to go to one of the remaining few remaining restaurants that that survived this thing. All right, Thank you very much. David. David has Shaquille. He’s got a bunch of shell companies one step ahead of the law trying. Tony, did I mention that [00:55:18.62] spk_0:
the peer to peer forum is uh, march 1st through third. [00:55:53.34] spk_1:
I’m not gonna say it now, So if you want, that’s a peer to peer forum dot com. If you want to do it on the business side, you’re more interested in partnering with businesses. Um, there’s engaged for good. They also have a conference engaged for good dot com and David is at Dave, not David. He goes by David. But I guess David David, David Cause must have been taken by some near do well considers himself important in the in the cause giving world. So he’s at Dave cause David has skill. Thank you very much. Real pleasure. [00:55:56.14] spk_0:
Same here, tony. Anytime. Let’s not let five years go by until the next time. [00:57:03.63] spk_1:
Well, you slipped up again this time by by putting me on the spot, which I said, I don’t like. So I will talk to you in 2028. Very good. Alright, David, Thank you. Next week, maybe it’s Kivi LaRue Miller. If not, she’ll be on soon. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you, find it at tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o and by dot drives Prospect to donor simplified tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant for a free demo and the free month Our creative producer is Prayer Meyerhoff shows social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our web guy, and this music is by Scots. Tony, Thank you for that information. Scotty. You with me next week for non profit radio. You better be big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great.
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[00:01:53.74] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of gastroesophageal reflux disease if you made me choke on the idea that you missed this week’s show. Peer to Peer for 2021. David Hess Akil returns with a look at this year’s P two p prospects, but not before a survey of the PDP carnage that was 2020. There are distinct opportunities for 2021 David shares the collective advice of thought leaders and practitioners. He’s the founder of Peer to Peer, Professional Forum and tony Steak, too. We’ve calmed down, were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives prospect to donor simplified tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant demo and a free month. Here is peer to peer for 2021. It’s my pleasure to welcome back after several years. David Hesse Kiel. He is founder and president of Cause Marketing Forum Inc. Helping nonprofits enlist millions of people to raise billions of dollars through the peer to peer professional forum and partner with businesses to do well by doing good through engage for Good. Both organizations hold national conferences to provide access to practical information and inspiration To help nonprofits forge valuable connections. You’ll find them at peer to peer forum dot com and at Engage for good calm. David is at Dave cause welcome back to non profit radio, David.
It’s great to be back, tony. [00:02:16.77] spk_1:
It’s a genuine pleasure. Good to have you after after probably too many years. I’m sorry for that. But here we are now. So no, no more lamentations [00:02:24.90] spk_0:
about no time like the present [00:02:37.34] spk_1:
to talk about peer to peer. Um, first, just acquaint us with you’ve got You’ve got three organizations there. You got the Cause Marketing Forum. You got the peer to peer professional forum and you’ve got engaged for good way. Know what they’re doing generally, but drill down a little bit. Eso listeners understand what [00:02:43.62] spk_0:
your marketing forum is really just the the holding company for all for these two endeavors a [00:02:54.60] spk_1:
shell company. That’s where your that’s where you really tax money enough [00:02:59.56] spk_0:
money to be dealing with the Cayman Islands and all of that. Alright, alright. It isn’t that interesting [00:03:01.54] spk_1:
about that, Okay? [00:04:09.54] spk_0:
Actually, originally, I started the company with the conference that was called Cause Marketing Forum, All about how businesses and nonprofits could work together. Over over the years, that area of interest morphed. And so the words cause marketing became a little dated. And so we changed to engage for good, because businesses are now looking more holistically at the whole field of how they can have values and do purpose driven work. Creating a better world while still being faithful to their bottom lines. And so that now involves not only consumer facing programs but programs designed to attract and retain and motivate employees activism on the national and international scale. And a lot more, um, peer to peer professional form. I’m a big name changer. I started that one back in 2000 and seven as the Run Walk Ride Fundraising Council because I think that many of your your listeners will be familiar with the term peer to peer fundraising. But way back in 2000 and six, when I was really pondering this, that didn’t exist. People never use that free we [00:04:24.73] spk_1:
didn’t say Peter P a peer to peer. So run, walk, run, walk rides. [00:05:11.44] spk_0:
So I tried to come up with the title that would telegraph what we were talking about. Um, and it took a number of years, but we picked up steam when peered appear became a a common phrase we re branded, and I learned something very interesting along the way. That is a lesson for us all. I learned we had a huge spike in the number of people who came to our conferences, listen to our stuff after we made that change. And I mean, it’s a great It was a great rebranding, but it wasn’t that great. And I was learning that certain people were being so literal that they were saying, Well, if I don’t have a run or walk or a ride, I’m not invited to the party. [00:05:17.16] spk_1:
E can’t do a dance. [00:06:18.34] spk_0:
Exactly where is really what we’re talking about? Is this amazing engine off fundraising and community development in which a non profit has its supporters get involved in some activity and then reach out to their networks to get support, as opposed to the traditional form in which most fundraising takes place where the non profit directly makes an ask in many different ways individual giving, legacy, giving all sorts of different campaigns here. They’re using that power of that network to get money from people who who they probably would never have talked to because they weren’t particularly interested. But those relationships create a lot of opportunity. And so a peer to peer professional forum We actually held our last conference the last week of February. [00:06:22.04] spk_1:
Got it right in. We [00:06:23.37] spk_0:
were so lucky. In fact, although the pandemic was mentioned in a couple of panels, we had no idea. Of course, tsunami that was approaching us. [00:06:37.36] spk_1:
You were two weeks lucky or two or three weeks luckier than in 10, and had Thio canceled, canceled their conference and scrambling. Do what? Do what they could thio put online. [00:07:00.84] spk_0:
I’d like to say that I was smart. I was just in that case, that was very, very 40. Yeah, way had 650 plus people that with largest conference we’ve ever had, and I speak with a lot of these people frequently, And if I had a dollar for every time somebody said to me, Oh, my gosh. The last business trip I took was to be with you in Austin. Yeah, I could retire. Yeah, well, [00:07:14.76] spk_1:
you have to have 650 bucks. You live meagerly in Rye, New York. If you could retire on $650 a dollar from each one, I’ll give you $10 for each one. You still wouldn’t be able to retire. Six. Its’s a metaphor. It’s an aphorism. Yes, I understand. But you know, I take aphorisms literally. Unless I’m the one using them. And then Then what? You’re being silly. Where you taking me literally for? There’s no winning. There’s no way, because I do. Whatever the hell, it’s nice to post, and [00:07:42.56] spk_0:
it’s nice to be king. So you’re the host. What do you [00:07:55.74] spk_1:
say? I’m the host. I’m the king. Yeah, that’s good. I should use King King non profit radio. All right, so, so much a peer to peer is online that there was virtually no impact on the on peer to peer fundraising throughout. 2020 right? It was already online. I’m [00:10:08.04] spk_0:
sorry you’ve low star game because that’s absolutely not true. Oh, my gosh. It was so a zay said once in a part of time, we were called the Run Walk Ride Fundraising Council, and in one sense, you are right, which is that off all forms of fundraising. The group, the area that perhaps has the deepest penetration of fundraising being conducted online, maybe peer to peer because people who are involved in these types of programs will reach out and use email and social media to collect all of those often smaller contributions. So there is a great penetration, but most of the activity has an analog sort of physical component in the real world, although the balance is changing. Walks, for example, mass gatherings of people, thousands of them every year. We started off in February going okay, It’s getting to be spring walk season. Let’s get going. We’re good luck this season and within a month, basically, this spring, the spring season was completely canceled and everybody was scrambling to create some sort of virtual experience so that they would be able to continue to do that fundraising and then within another couple of months, because we all thought we all hope that we all thought in the early days Well, all right, this is a pandemic. But how long could it last? So we were optimistic that fall programs would happen because these types of programs are very weighted towards the spring and the fall. In a lot of the country, it’s too hot or people are away on vacation, so they don’t do as much of this summer anyway, This the fall went away, and so there was a mad scramble to come up with alternatives to what they had traditionally done [00:10:15.99] spk_1:
right. And you’ve got some recognition for folks that did that particularly. Well, just just give us some perspective about what? What, what these these cancelations in spring and fall meant to the community nation. [00:12:14.64] spk_0:
So you know it’s been interesting were one of our best known pieces of research is the called the Top 30 Report. We do a study in which we look at it. The 30 largest programs we do, one actually in the US and we do another one in Canada, and over the first few years that I was involved with this field, we were doing very nicely. The collapse financial collapse happened in 2000 and 8, 2009, and we’ve actually had negative numbers for nearly every year since then. But when you group them all together, it’s usually a couple of percent. Maybe. And I was hoping that this coming year would be the year that we would actually finally have black ink and produce a report that said it was going to that it was positive on General. Well, nothing could be further than the truth, because nonprofits, uh, through no fault of their own, like all of us, in different aspects of our lives, you know, you promised People X they were used to doing X, and now all of a sudden X for 95% of the situations was impossible to do, and so they would create virtual. And anyway, we found out that I’m using a general term that is about a 50% drop off in the amount of money that they raised from these programs. It really like any average. It’s an average. So you had some that were in the 70 80% of recapturing what they had expected to raise, or at least how much they raised the previous year. You have some in the forties, you have some that were canceled and you have a very few very, very, very few situations where they’re actually were physical programs. I actually I mean, there are more than non, but I know of one in particular. Uh, and it was it. It’s been a devastating year. [00:12:41.64] spk_1:
So you’ve got these three organizations that, um I don’t wanna really talk about them specifically, but name them that that you identified as having done particularly well in adapting. And then, you know, what can we learn from these in aggregate? [00:13:51.74] spk_0:
Eso It’s It’s again like everybody else. We’ve also had to make major changes the way that we share information. We upped tremendously the frequency off distance learning that we were providing through our organization because everybody was hungry for information and was locked in and they couldn’t go out. Um, and we have had a tradition over in recent years, off every year late, naming one organization as the peer to peer fundraising organization of the year and sort of looking at the totality of what they do. Sometimes it’s for one program. Sometimes it’s for ah group of programs, and as we looked at last year, we decided that it would be more instructive to look at a few examples of programs. He was a program within a program or otherwise that did well and use them as learn herbal moment. So we picked out three, and each of them illustrates a different point. [00:14:35.24] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times Do you wanna be in papers like that? How about CBS Market Watch? The Chronicle of Philanthropy? Turn two has the relationships with outlets like these, so that when they’re looking for experts on charitable giving, non profit trends or philanthropy, they call turn to turn two calls you turn hyphen two dot ceo now back to peer to peer for 2021 [00:16:46.64] spk_0:
In the case of there’s the L S Association off its Greater Chicago chapter, and even though they had a spring event as part of the large Ailes walk Siri’s, each chapter was sort of left to fend somewhat for themselves, and they made a fast move, which was one of the things that helped some groups and being having having difficulty making a decision and telling people what was coming up. The pike was a big problem for a lot of groups. Um, they said, Okay, there is not going to be a large Chicago walk. What? We know that a whole bunch of you have signed up. About 150 groups have signed up as teams in this case, largely family teams, people who have somebody afflicted with that terrible disease of ales. We want you to create neighborhood walks, and we are sending every one of you a walk in a box kit. Oh, it’s amazing that, you know, it’s ah, big box full of of instructions and door hangers to put around their neighborhood, explaining that they were gonna be walking and asking people to give and all sorts of fun, uplifting type of stuff shirts, etcetera. And they were able to got about 125 groups to actually walk. They had even some more grandiose plans which were defeated by the by the pandemic and by some of the unrest that was happening at the exact time that they were supposed to have their their program. They were going to send, uh, emissaries out to the neighborhood, walks and provide them with with cupcakes and have super It’s a superhero themed walk Superheroes gonna visit there weren’t allowed to send people out. But by giving people something, really, by generating excitement, you look with all the stuff we’ve got. They were able to I think they raised about 75% of what their previous total had been. So a less was so taken with their approach and some of the many smart things that they did that they encouraged and taught many of their other chapters to adopt some of their techniques and it stood them in good stead. And they’re and they’re planning to continue that for next [00:17:12.06] spk_1:
year. So innovation Is that what you were captured you about the [00:17:39.54] spk_0:
yes, there was association that all all of these in some way, shape or form of innovation. In this case, the easiest shorthand to say is if you can’t bring the people you know Mohammed to the mountain, bring the mountain to Mohammed where we are, they created some of the excitement. People do walks, not because walks air so exciting. I mean, it’s not like you’re going to the, you know, if you if you’ve decided, you’re going to do it, you’re a runner and your you’ve set yourself a personal goal and you’re doing a marathon. There’s a whole big exciting thing, but walks are neat, but people want to be able to congregate. Of course, be a part of a team. Well, that wasn’t possible is here. So they helped create some of that spirit by sending it out. So that was their innovation. [00:18:04.93] spk_1:
Bunch of a bunch of smaller communities. Instead of one big community of tens of thousands of people coming together, there were 100 25 communities that came together throughout throughout Greater Chicago. [00:19:21.04] spk_0:
You’re absolutely right. Will be Dana Farber, and Dana Farber does a number of amazing programs. One of their programs is the Jimmy Fund. Dana Farber has this amazing New England charity called The Jimmy Fund. There is called the Jimmy Fund Walk. David Dana Farber is a cancer research center, and what is best known about that walk it’s they’re based in Boston is that follows the route of the Boston Marathon. So for years, that was sort of what they lead with the excitement that you were actually going to be able to do the route off the marathon and all of a sudden, impossible can do that. And I think that they’re example. They were also able to have a strong performance. But it taught them a lesson about the importance of changing your messaging to never lose sight of the mission and the stories of the people and the impact that the people who are walking have. And by shifting that model of messaging to their supporters, it stood them in very good stead. And then the third group that we [00:19:28.00] spk_1:
wait before you move on. So what did they do in place of the walk? Uh, [00:20:11.04] spk_0:
of it A. And an encouragement to go out and walk on your own. Okay. They also created online ways to get involved and to be a part of, ah, a group program. But this was just a really good lesson in how strategically changing your marketing message makes a huge difference. And sometimes we way. It’s easy to get caught up in sort of the sizzle. And this was going back to the steak, which is the reason why you’re doing this. Yes, it’s very cool to be on the marathon route when you’re doing this to help save kids and others. We’ve got cancer [00:20:17.08] spk_1:
back to the why? Why? [00:22:26.34] spk_0:
Why? You sound like Simon cynic. And then the third group that we’re going Thio. Yeah, well, I’m a big admirer to the third one is, uh, the Terry Fox Foundation, which I don’t I imagine that many of your most of your listeners Air American in Canada. The Terry Fox Foundation is very well known. Terry Fox was a young man. I think this was back in the eighties, perhaps where who had cancer and he lost one of his legs. It was amputated and he decided to fight cancer to raise money by running across Canada. Very, very dramatic. Um, and he passed away, and they created this Terry Fox Foundation, which holds numerous walks and runs all across Canada. Once again, they went from a group that does almost 1000 events. Ah, year to one that couldn’t hold any in person. And there’s is an example. We’re really honoring them for having the guts to complete what they had it planned. Terry Fox. An amazing organization. One of the largest peer to peer fundraisers in Canada, but also a very traditional organization. And frankly, and they have said to us not as digitized and in their approach to doing business as most other leading nonprofits were. And they had made a decision in the previous year to make a major pushing how they acted and in reaching out to their supporters via digital means and raising money digitally of doing all of that in a very new and much more modern way. And many organizations with all of the change that was coming down the pike as the pandemic swept through the industry, would have said, Oh my gosh, this is not the year to do a major all overhaul of all of our systems. And instead the Terry Fox folks said, You know what? Let’s stick to the course. Let’s do this They did. It was very successful and all the more helpful to have that digital communication and fundraising in a time when you can’t get together and they recruit about forgetting the exact number. But this sort of like seven of the $8 million that they would have raised, they raised a large percentage of the money that they would have raised [00:23:04.84] spk_1:
a profile encourage for doing something audacious, right at a time when a lot of organizations might not have, but they saw the need. Yeah, great. And they seized it. Absolutely. So let’s zoom. Let’s look forward then. So, though Well, those three organizations gonna be honored right at the march. You gotta You gotta March conference coming up. The people could find find out about the conference where [00:23:28.24] spk_0:
they will go to peer to peer forum dot com. And they will find out about this event that we’re holding Thea er Noon, Eastern time, March 1st, 2nd and 3rd with a great love or information on overview off the field as well as very this very specifics off. If you do walks or if you are a hospital or if you do cycling events, there are special breakout sessions for all of those and more. [00:26:07.97] spk_1:
It’s time for tony steak, too. We’ve calmed down Well, maybe I should say I’ve calmed down to events, seemed to have turned down the national temperature or at least turn down my temperature. Maybe I’m extrapolating from myself for everybody. Maybe that’s unfair. Although I am the center of the universe, we know that non profit radio is here with me non profit radio and I are the center of the universe. So maybe I’m not being unfair, but so maybe it’s more what I’m feeling. These two, these two things these two events seem to have have calmed me, and maybe they have calmed the nation. Donald Trump silenced on Twitter and the inauguration. I’m getting fewer news alerts. I’m not looking at my phone as much. I don’t feel sort of, like, agitated on and compelled to investigate headlines like I did before those two events. Um, so again, like I’ve said three times already, uh, maybe it’s just me. So maybe this is a little therapy session. No, I don’t I don’t mean non profit radio would be therapy. If it is, I’m in a lot of trouble. I’m not getting my money’s worth. I I feel I feel a difference. I feel a difference in the in in Communist and increased Communists and decreased agitation. And maybe that’s the national temperature as well. I’m not sure, but I’m sharing with you what I’m feeling since those two things. And that is Tony’s Take two. Now let us return to peer to peer for 2021 with David Hezekiel. Let’s look forward then David has skill. What do you think 2021 is looking like you had some piece in Forbes that makes some predictions from powerhouse people in peer to peer. Lots of lots of, uh, liberation there. Powerhouses in peer to peer productivity and and and And what? Pastrami, pastrami and prodigious nous. So what do your engagement is one thing e talking about? I [00:26:12.65] spk_0:
wish, tony that your listeners could see a visual right now because you can see that I’ve got a large crystal wall that I am looking into peering into because this is where I get most of my forecasts and predictions. But believe me, [00:26:36.60] spk_1:
yeah, well, know that Forbes piece was based on lots of other people like non profit radio. I’m not I’m not the expert here. I’m just a bulletin board that you post things on my forehead. And then I put them out for our listeners Thio to pick up on. [00:26:48.80] spk_0:
Yes, I didn’t put any of my predictions, but I will tell you that it was fascinating to dio to do this, so I don’t know what when this airs. Uh, but [00:27:00.08] spk_1:
there the week of January 25th [00:27:48.14] spk_0:
next week. Monday uh, I literally just stepped away from I work in the home office. I guess we all are sort of working in home offices now. And I just watched the inauguration. Yes, very touching. Ah, nde There was no, uh no messing around. No gilding the lily. There’s tough times ahead. And the, you know, vaccination program seems to be absolutely key to really being able to unleash the economic power off all sorts of activity. And this area is is no different because [00:28:00.44] spk_1:
all the more actually Z originated has run, walk, ride. So you made very clear there is still an important in real life component to peer to peer fundraising. [00:30:15.20] spk_0:
So when we get to the some of those prognostications in the past But we did a survey some months ago asking people what were they thinking was going to be the shape of their programs next year. The overwhelming majority were saying, Well, we’re hoping that we will have what what what have become the term has has become hybrid programs. They would like to have physical programs, but especially for the spring. I mean, you know, we’re coming up against the big traditionally many programs started in March in the warmer climes were very big in April and May, and the vaccination roll out is just not happening that fast. Eso uh there is the feeling that there may be the opportunity to not re constitute as okay, we’re gonna have 5000 people gathered together to do a major walk. But we may be able to say, Okay, well, certain of you, this will continue to be a virtual experience. But we also have an element of this where we’re perhaps organized much smaller experience, socially distant experience. Maybe you need to reach a certain level of fundraising and then you can come to a gathering that those combinations are called hybrids. And I think there’s going to be, ah, huge amount of that also because one of the thio, almost a person when I talked to speak people in this field to say the most maddening aspect of what’s going on is it’s so hard to plan because we just don’t know when the all clear will be sounded and we can go back to living is normal. So if you plan for ah hybrid with the realization that if things get better it could be more physical. And if things go to heck, it could be mawr or completely Virtual is the posture that most are taking. There’s some hope. One of the people that we interviewed was Jennifer Lee leads the peer to peer effort at the National and s Society, one of the major peer to peer fundraising America. And she is guardedly guardedly optimistic that in the fall there will be much more of a physical presence in these programs. Um, so that is one [00:30:36.42] spk_1:
your hybrid and and hybrid, and I just built into that is, be flexible. [00:32:39.94] spk_0:
Yes, The second thing that comes loud and clear is that virtual if your idea of virtual is just saying, well, we really can’t do anything, so just give that ain’t gonna cut it e mean there were certain that’s really just like asking for donation, which, of course, all of these groups do in spades. But if it’s a peer to peer program, it’s a very difficult thing to get a lot of people enthusiastic if there’s no there there. So a lot of investment needs to be made in making virtual, uh, in some way inspiring enabling groups to come together to have that feeling of community giving them props that bring the thing toe life such as we talked about with the L s associations. Example. Um, yeah. On then, we have a wonderful contributor who will be speaking at this This year’s conference. Nicole Dolan works for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. And she said one of the lessons she learned along the way and that they are working on very hard is you need to give people, uh, concrete things that they need to do. Give them assignments, sign up for this email, Come to this meeting, uh, post on social media. You know, be a part of what’s going on because your best supporters will react to that. And it’s much more fulfilling for them to actually get involved. Then if you just sort of give them a blanket. Okay, well, you know, go off and figure it out. That will not work. So are you. [00:33:57.14] spk_1:
Are you, uh I’m having a deja vu moment right now. I’ve dreamed about you. Are you related? Do you have any? Yeah. Connection to Minnesota? No. Why? Well, I don’t know. Because of what I’m asking because of my deja vu experience. There was something related to Minnesota in in the dream that I had when you and I were talking. Uh, all right. I was hoping you could validate my dream, but all right, there was some There was some connection with Minnesota. And you in our conversation, maybe was just asking. I’ve been on the secretary. Alright. But I am. I am. It’s over now. It’s over now, so I don’t know where we’re headed. I can’t say, um the so I mean, the other advantage Thio keeping that virtual engagement is that you can you can bring in those folks that joined you in 2020 who could not have joined you in a real life event. So you don’t wanna You don’t want to just kind of, I guess, you know, move them to a strict campaign, you know, digital giving platform or or or channel, I should say, when their their initial engagement was around an event. So if you if you keep the hybrid and you stay flexible and you you work on engagement like you’re describing, um you can keep those people involved in a in an event fashion even though there may be hundreds of miles away from you. [00:37:38.77] spk_0:
Yes, well, I think that the higher level, more sophisticated incarnation of this type of activity has always said that you work at segmenting. You don’t treat everybody as equal where all God’s Children and when you treat them all well. But your top 20% for example, of fundraisers. That’s where you know there’s sort of an 80 20 rule. They will raise the overwhelming majority of your funds, and you should be giving them a lot of attention. There’s a lot of people in the walk world, especially who come who show up where your T shirt to eat a banana, but actually don’t raise any money. And they feel like, Well, it’s a community activity and we wanna be involved were not fundraisers, Um similarly Paul Purty of the American Cancer Society, who is also speaking at our conference. He makes the point that he’s done a huge amount of experimentation and trying different virtual approaches, and one of their lessons is really think about this as an on boarding ramp for finding people who are passionate about your cause, and then you do the segmentation necessary to figure out how to keep them involved, perhaps in a virtual way, or whether they are good candidates for trying your physical event. When you can hold that well. Or maybe there will be a supportive of your charity, you know, completely different way. Maybe they could become great volunteers or maybe substantial individual givers. So this whole on boarding and shepherding, stewarding off, peer to peer and seeing it as an on ramp to building your funnel of of supporters is very important. And virtual will never go back to being sort of the very weak excuse of saying, Oh yes, we have a virtual program. But there was really no there there. It was just a way of saying, Well, if you live far away and you wanna be supportive of other people, you could say you’re a virtual walker. Now there are people, and interesting. We had a weapon or the other day featuring people from Good United who also worked with the American Cancer Society and had a wonderful speaker, Dan Thorpe, from there and what they They are using a whole mixture off using Facebook social media advertising to find people who would be interested in a geo particular geographic area at getting involved in a a squat challenge or a individualized walk or run challenge, et cetera, and using the Facebook milieu to get them involved in to get them fundraising. They had tremendous success with that. What they feel that most of those people will have to be will probably be kept involved by reaching out to them again through that social media connection they made. Two. It’s almost It’s a little strong to say this, but it’s almost like a bait and switch. If you try to say Okay, well, you’re a social media. Uh uh, you like to communicate this way. Now we want to take you off of social media and communicate with you via email and have you go to a physical event with a lot of other people, where you have not demonstrated that you necessarily want to do that [00:37:51.42] spk_1:
radio meet people where they are. It not where you would like them to be and come meet you. Um, squat challenge makes my thighs tremble because I’ve been doing jump squats. It’s only my thighs. Don’t don’t get to accept, you know, just thighs trembling that stops there. Um uh, doing jump squats as part of my homework out. [00:38:20.61] spk_0:
I’m impressed because I try to do Burpees Oh, my God. [00:38:47.12] spk_1:
Things. Oh, and then do split, jump squats Those things are rough toward the end toward the end of a set. Oh, are a bunch of reps. I’m more like It’s more like standing on your toes instead of jumping like stand on your toe and squat squat So squat challenges I got a little this. I got a visceral queen. Visceral reaction when mentioned squat challenges [00:38:48.28] spk_0:
trying not to use any untoward vocabulary again. I don’t want to scare you, tony. [00:40:30.01] spk_1:
Well, you wouldn’t know my hyper sensitivities. Uh, if that was gonna be the case, we have to wrap up right now. It is a lot. I got more tony go from or much of issues. Time for our last break. Quote. There’s nothing as simple as dot drives. Our executive team meets once per week to sit down and go through our dot drives pipelines. It’s fun to watch them have a healthy dialogue and to see them get excited about their numbers rising toward their goals, you could feel this person’s excitement. You can feel her excitement at witnessing this dot drives has allowed us to take those key relationships and bring them to a deeper level. End quote. That’s Wendy Adams, director of donor engagement at Patrick Henry. Family Service is dot drives Prospect to donor Simplified. Get the free demo for listeners. There’s also a free month. You go to the listener landing page at we’ve got but loads more time for peer to peer for 2021 you got you got also your your thought Leaders in peer to peer had ideas and about not surprising. I mean, we hear this in a lot of a lot of realms. I certainly, uh um in foundation and even corporate fundraising as well. But collaborations be collaborative. Reach out, reach out across your community. Maybe it’s across the country. Be collaborative. [00:40:43.41] spk_0:
Well, it s so funny that you mentioned that because I literally had a conversation yesterday with with one of the speakers for Thea upcoming conference. And what she was saying is that you know as much as there is, it’s [00:40:46.61] spk_1:
not funny. David, this is all planned. There’s nothing funny about it. You got coming in. Think I didn’t. You know, You think I didn’t talk to the people you’ve spoken to in the past two weeks to find out about you? This is this. This doesn’t just come together. I’m a little I’m a little offended. I’m a little I’m disappointed. More than offended. Go ahead. [00:42:18.70] spk_0:
Looking for the silver linings? One of the things that she had been particularly, uh, happy about Waas. That there was a lot of sharing. I mean, although many of us feel zoomed out of our minds, the fact that groups off people who knew each other but worked at different organizations were getting together We’re asking one another’s questions. Um, they were going to some some programming that we created in which there was a lot of sharing has really helped folks get through this very, very difficult, uh, period. So I think that there is collaboration, and for me, it’s such a delight to see, because when I started this group, there was such trepidation that if you went to a conference and you talked about how you held your event sarees, everybody would be taking notes about some sort of secret sauce that you might have and they do that. And then all of a sudden, all of these people who have been raising money for just throwing cancer were suddenly begun to become heart association people because because they did, they did X, y or Z, and [00:42:21.14] spk_1:
his heart still still cancers ideas. And it’s all zero sum. And if you must be losing [00:42:38.40] spk_0:
its so much, not zero sum if you’re doing it right, because people do have an affinity, unfortunately, often for your particular cause. And so, uh, this this spirit of collaboration has just been growing and growing and [00:42:42.67] spk_1:
growing. Can you collaborate with if you’re If you’re in the in this peer to peer world who like who, Who could you be reaching out to? [00:43:57.40] spk_0:
Well, I think that one thing to do, I think in any field that you’re in is to be looking at other programs, seeing if there’s aspects of what they do that you admire, um, and and being you know, it’s it’s it’s taking that important first step of reaching out to others to find out who they are. One of the things that’s been a wonderful part of what we’ve been able to build is a community. You know, sometimes even figuring out who that person is isn’t easy. When were physically together. Uh, we literally leave a lot of time for networking so people can talk to one another and can share, since we’re so even within our organizations often siloed. But we’re very siloed from other other folks. It’s why, when we produced this upcoming event, we’ve created a lot of opportunities for using breakout functionality to have small group discussions to have actually one on one discussions, because people are hungry for opportunities to talk one on another, and we don’t all need to be inventing the wheel in parallel. There’s a lot of things that we can help each other out with, Uh, that won’t take away from us, but will hopefully make you know. And these people are working towards goals of trying to fight disease, fight hunger. Of course, it is wonderful to see some of this Kumbaya spirit brought to life. [00:45:15.59] spk_1:
Am I naive if I suggest that when we get back to in real life runs walk, run, run, walk, rides, whatever, whatever form it takes that a bunch of non profits in a community, we’re in a city could get together and host something together so that you know, if if my organization could probably only get 100 or 150 runners and walkers, whatever. But there’s another organization that could get 500 somebody else who could bring 75. And together we could get 2500 or 3000 or 5000 people Thio. And then we could have the synergy of working together with the local police to stop close the streets and they get the park permits, et cetera, and rent the banners that we need and the archways and the sound system. Is that Is that doable? [00:48:22.57] spk_0:
Yeah, Well, actually, you you you raise a really interesting point and we’re seeing some of that activity already start in different ways. So, for example, in Maryland, there is the Almond Foundation, which is a cancer foundation actually started by the family of Doug Ulman, who is the used to be the head of Live Strong is now head of paella Tonia, which is a tremendous cycling fundraiser that happens in Columbus, Ohio, back in Maryland, the when the pandemic struck the Almond Foundation, which has had a long history of raising money in a number of interesting ways through peer to peer fundraising, decided to create an event, sort of the all of the institutional work that is necessary to create the online presence and the digital fundraising systems, etcetera. And then, uh, opened this to numerous Maryland based charities, and they could have their people plug into this program. And, uh, I don’t don’t totally quote me, but I’m remembering, right there was virtually no cost to the charities to participate, other than to defray the costs that Almond was taking on to create this platform for everybody. They gave a certain percentage back toe, and Ullman wasn’t competing with them to get supporters. So that’s one example. Another example and donor drive was very involved in setting that all up donor drive being a platform company that non profit use to raise funds. Another example. Event 3 60 is a, uh, a production company, primarily very involved with peer to peer fundraising, and they have created something they call the five by five K for good. They piloted this this fall in Denver, and what they did was there a lot of people who are avid runners who want to get out avid supporters of charity. And they created event where you could run over the 24 hour period. Five different five K’s So in Toto, if you did it, yeah, you could run a basically a marathon and they had a number of different charities. It was open to any charity, and again there was. It was sort of free to enter, and then there was a certain percentage that helped defray the cost. So that went on in in Denver this fall. Um, so there There are a number of those, uh, those efforts already underway, and it’s going to be interesting to see, you know, it’s collaboration is great. It usually takes some entity to take a bold first step and sort of create something that others can get involved [00:48:33.05] spk_1:
with. That’s it. That’s the non profit. You just profiled the non profit radio listeners there, the bold ones you gotta be somebody’s gotta put a stake in the ground and say, Let’s Tze rally around this. [00:48:44.45] spk_0:
Yeah, and it’s a wonderful way of sharing costs and sharing opportunities that any one might not be able to do by itself, [00:48:53.81] spk_1:
right? Are you familiar with generosity? Siri’s? Yes. That [00:48:56.95] spk_0:
was the other one. They actually I [00:49:09.27] spk_1:
I used Thio. I used Thio. What’s it called? I didn’t I wasn’t their host. I was there. Uh, there M c. I was used to emcee the event. I probably am said I have a dozen in the New York Manhattan. [00:49:13.60] spk_0:
Other people? Yes, I know them. And I I have not been in touch with them recently. I have a feeling that the pandemic sort of, [00:49:29.95] spk_1:
uh I wonder because they were strictly e. I mean, they had a fundraising platform, but they were strictly real life events in exactly, also in Philadelphia. And they were trying to go beyond the Northeast. They’re just being just New York and Philadelphia. And [00:49:34.97] spk_0:
they were attracting numerous numerous charities, uh, to be ableto [00:49:39.81] spk_1:
Yeah, we have a dozen or so. Yeah, I introduced Steve Buscemi at one because he was really He’s from Brooklyn. So he was a visitor at one. We had somebody. The Brooklyn City Council? Uh, no. The Brooklyn, Brooklyn President, Borough President, President, President, book. That was a different event. Yeah, I did a couple of Manhattan a couple of Brooklyn, so I hope they’re still bound listeners. You could check out generosity Siri’s, because they were. They were looking to go nationwide on there. Pretty ambitious guys. David David, David Lind, [00:50:11.47] spk_0:
L I N N. [00:50:13.11] spk_1:
Lynn, David Lynn, right, David and Saul, David and Saul. So I was more in the background. David Lane, right? I hope they’re still doing well. But you could check out generosity. Siri’s Certainly if you’re in the New York or Philly area, because the I know they’ve done events there and I imagine they’re they’re smart and they’ll be coming back in 2021 2022. So [00:50:31.53] spk_0:
I’m going to reach out to them [00:50:47.36] spk_1:
generosity. Yeah, I will, too. All right, right. So there’s cause for optimism. Even though we don’t, you know, we got to stay flexible. We don’t know when that, uh, you know, when we’ll be ableto amass thousands of people together. But there are lots of opportunities to go beyond that. As as you describe [00:51:54.86] spk_0:
20 was a very painful learning year on, you know, again looking for silver linings. Uh, lots of groups learned about things that they could do in less staff, because unfortunately, many groups had to lay off staff, um, quicker than they’ve ever been used to and stretching and using technology in ways that they talked about for a long time. But now that it was a necessity, Ah, lot of them have made some of those investments in technology that will stand them in good stead in the year to come. So I don’t think that this is gonna be a banner year, but I think that the learnings from 2020 will stand us in in better stead to do better in 2021 then hopefully come roaring back in 2022 Because I’ve been trying to figure out tony, you you gotta help me with this. There’s got to be smarter, much smarter guys than I who are figuring out right now and gals, okay, The economy is gonna come back. We’re gonna be able to travel again, et cetera. What are the depressed stocks? And I should be buying right now to make a killing the floodgates open. [00:52:09.05] spk_1:
You’re asking the wrong guy. First of all, I don’t like guess to put me on the spot. That’s the first thing I’ll get past that. I’m willing to overlook it this time, [00:52:16.72] spk_0:
but I’ll never do [00:52:17.71] spk_1:
it. That’s why that’s why it’s been so many years since you’ve been back. I believe I remember distinctly. You did that six years ago. I remember the day I’m pretty sure was November 4th. [00:52:26.26] spk_0:
It was probably your dream, but Okay, [00:52:42.95] spk_1:
that was Minnesota. Now, that was strictly that was strictly a Minnesota thing. Yeah, but the other reason you’re aside from that, you know, if you look at my portfolio, you’d see you know, my my mantra is always buy high, sell low. So you don’t want stock advice from May? [00:52:44.68] spk_0:
Well, I guess the two of us will be working stiffs for quite over because I’ve got a similar profile. But I do think [00:52:54.03] spk_1:
I need some illicit income. That’s what I need. I need some of that came and came in high double money because I got I got too much of the income and not enough of the capital game. [00:53:34.55] spk_0:
I think that when you know, as I said before, sort of like the all clearest sounded. There is going to be such a penned up demand to get together with other, has celebrate and to do the good work that people are so dedicated to that they have such an emotional connection with, uh that, you know, hopefully, maybe at the end of 2021 but certainly 2022 should be should should really benefit from that. And so this year, we’re going to be revealing at at our conferences we do every year. What the [00:53:37.77] spk_1:
enough with Schilling of the conference. Now I’ll let you get away with it for, like, three times I said it. What was that? March? [00:54:13.14] spk_0:
But we’re going thio and let Ugo available on our site. You don’t have to pay Teoh get it? What is the results of the 2020 study that we dio in terms of the top 30 programs? And that will be a very somber moment because it’s gonna be terrible. The numbers are awful, however, as any good sales person who’s ever had a sales commission plan knows. What you want to do is you want to join up when they’ve had a terrible year, because the next year that you’re working off of a much smaller base, and so any gains that you have are accelerated. So I’m hoping you [00:54:19.41] spk_1:
go So apply that lesson to your stock market question. And now you’ve got your answer. There you go. I don’t know what to me. I don’t know what the answer is, but, you know, you get back to you, you have to take the next step on your own, [00:54:30.48] spk_0:
will get together with David Lynn will find him, and he’ll tell us what you think [00:54:34.80] spk_1:
of it On the microcosmic level. I mean, aren’t you dying? Thio have a dinner with friends [00:54:39.01] spk_0:
again. Just answered a survey was sort of a fun survey talking about great, you know, kind of kooky things. And but what were the questions was what are you most looking forward to when this is over? And I said going out to dinner with friends? [00:54:54.29] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. Hour and a half. No masks. Close table for four to [00:55:00.60] spk_0:
food. Could be awful. [00:55:04.94] spk_1:
Yeah, Yeah, we have to go to one of the remaining few remaining restaurants that that survived this thing. All right, Thank you very much. David. David has Shaquille. He’s got a bunch of shell companies one step ahead of the law trying. Tony, did I mention that [00:55:18.62] spk_0:
the peer to peer forum is uh, march 1st through third. [00:55:53.34] spk_1:
I’m not gonna say it now, So if you want, that’s a peer to peer forum dot com. If you want to do it on the business side, you’re more interested in partnering with businesses. Um, there’s engaged for good. They also have a conference engaged for good dot com and David is at Dave, not David. He goes by David. But I guess David David, David Cause must have been taken by some near do well considers himself important in the in the cause giving world. So he’s at Dave cause David has skill. Thank you very much. Real pleasure. [00:55:56.14] spk_0:
Same here, tony. Anytime. Let’s not let five years go by until the next time. [00:57:03.63] spk_1:
Well, you slipped up again this time by by putting me on the spot, which I said, I don’t like. So I will talk to you in 2028. Very good. Alright, David, Thank you. Next week, maybe it’s Kivi LaRue Miller. If not, she’ll be on soon. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you, find it at tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o and by dot drives Prospect to donor simplified tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant for a free demo and the free month Our creative producer is Prayer Meyerhoff shows social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our web guy, and this music is by Scots. Tony, Thank you for that information. Scotty. You with me next week for non profit radio. You better be big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great.
