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Nonprofit Radio for May 24, 2019: Small Dollar Donor Power & Donor Retention

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My Guests:

Sara Kerrigan of ActBlue and Carrie Mann of Friends of the Earth

Sara Kerrigan & Carrie Mann: Small Dollar Donor Power
Small dollar donors are shifting the digital fundraising landscape. Our panel reveals basic principles of running a sustainable program online. They’re Sara Kerrigan from ActBlue and Carrie Mann with Friends of the Earth. (Recorded at 19NTC)





Laura Cole and Paul Habig of Sanky Communications

Laura Cole & Paul Habig: Donor Retention
Now that you’ve got new donors, learn how to keep them with you: Avoid retention pitfalls, leverage technology and track the right metrics. Our teachers are Laura Cole and Paul Habig, both from Sanky Communications. (Also recorded at 19NTC)





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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with Skip Tosa Maya sis, if I got infected with the idea that you missed today’s show Small dollar donor power Small dollar donors are shifting the digital fund-raising landscape. Our panel reveals basic principles of running a sustainable program online. They’re Sara Carrigan from Act Blue and Carry man with Friends of the Earth that was recorded at 19 and TC. And don’t a retention now that you’ve got new donors, learn how to keep them with you. Avoid retention pitfalls, leverage technology and track the right metrics Our teachers, our Laura Cole and Paul Hey Big, both from Sang Ki communications that’s also recorded in 1990 si on Tony’s Take two. Be a good American. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuing by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy Text NPR to 444999 Here is small dollar donor power. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 ntcdinosaur. What that is it’s a 19 2019 non-profit technology conference. You know that we’re in Portland, Oregon, at the convention center. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me. Now are Sarah Kerrigan seated next to me? Email Director Attack blew and carry man, Deputy Director of digital membership and advocacy at Friends of the Earth. Carry Sarah. Welcome. Thanks. Carrots are looked upon with Welcome. Welcome. Both of you. Welcome the non-profit radio. Okay. Your topic is the largest group of untapped charitable givers. Small dollar donors. Um, Sarah, what do you feel like? Non-profits don’t fully appreciate about small dollar donors. Why do we need this session? Yeah, well, I think it’s really important. I would actually say that non-profit They actually do really appreciate small dollar donors that I’ve that I’ve seen on. Really? The our goal of the presentation was just doing power non-profits to take the case to their boards or their directors and say like, Hey, this is actually like a really good use of fund-raising on. And it’s also a really good way to engage people move their mission forward. Sometimes it just takes somebody to really, like, dive deep into email on to dive deep into those fund-raising strategies for people to feel empowered to take that business case, you know, straight to their organizations. Okay, carrot. So I assume you’re working with ActBlue. Yes, we are. OK. Were you the person that Sarah just referring to? I went to your leadership and said, this is worth investing in. That was before my time. But it’s carried on. Yeah. OK, so so glad that your predecessor did that. All right, All right, So where’s the best place to start? Well, uh, if we’re if we don’t feel we are capturing all our potential in small dollar donors, where What’s the first thing that we need to have in place before we can be effective with the campaign? Yeah, that’s a really good question. Eso actually email is the driver of the vast driver of all contributions. So, really, all you need is an email program, andan email list and just a message, and you can easily write your own emails and send it out to your audience. Of course, you can use an act, Liu wink if you so choose, Um, but, yeah, it’s really, really easy to tap into small dollar donors. Really, all you need is an email address and names, and then you can go ahead and get started. Okay, you don’t have to screen for who the best the best prospects are. Well, now, I mean, there’s also there’s other different acquisition strategies that you can absolutely use. But if you’re just starting from ground zero like really, all you need is an email list, a new email address, and you can get started with your own fund-raising. Okay, Alright, Carrie, how how successful has been at Friends of the Earth? It’s been huge for our programas a hole. When I first started in front of the Earth, we had about 225 2 150,000 people on their email lists, and it was raising a pretty negligible portion of our budget. Now we have about one point 8,000,000 people on our list, and it’s raising over two and 1/2 $1,000,000 a year. All right, all right. That’s, uh, explosive. How do we define what does? Does the definition of small dollar donation Barry from organization, organization or you feel like it’s all pretty consistent, Like we’re talking like 15 $2025? Is that Is that what friends of the Earth that you define small dollar when you have these conversations? Yeah, I mean, really, we aren’t going to turn down $1,000 contribution if somebody wants to do that online. But for the most part, we’re seeing people giving and more of that $1,000 30 to $50 range online on DH. Just giving, sometimes more than once a year, three or four times a year. And yeah, that lower dollar level. Okay, All right. So, Sarah, I have I have small dollar on my T shirt. How does ActBlue define what’s on my T shirt? Yeah, sure. So a small dollar donorsearch buddy who makes a contribution of 250 or less? That’s pretty much the standard that we use, but basically the whole goal about engaging small dollar donors that that goes beyond raising money. I mean, these are people who are marching their protest ng they’re volunteering, and they’re really pushing. Non-profits causes forward and That’s really the message that we want to drive home, that it’s just like it’s not just about like fund-raising. It really is about building of movement, a powerful movement of people on DH. Usually that massive movement of people that we see are small dollar donors because they’re the most engaged. Okay, Okay, um, you’re in your session. You talk about some basics principles of running a sustainable small dollar program. So let’s start with uses were way. Stay with you. I should say, uh, what, you got to start with some basic principles. Yeah, sure, I’m the number one thing. Is this treating your supporters with respect? I mean, we live in a world right now where there’s just so much content, like were saturated with content, especially is Carrie and I are both email professionals. It’s just so important to really look at your email program and say, like, you know, we really should choose a tree. Donors with respect there’s a lot of email programs out there that kind of focus solely on fund-raising and bottom line in our in our position is we really need to build like a sustainable program again, where we just create content where people feel like you know, they want to be on the email list and they want to donate and they want to give and they want to get their time, money and energy towards the mission. How do we show that respect? Well, there’s lots of different ways Way don’t hold off on Don’t hold back on non-profit radio listeners. Yeah, How do we How do we show it took off a couple ways? Sure, eso being honest with people about why you’re asking him to give money is very important. I’ll use an example about recurring donations. Something that we have found really successful is when we just asked people like, Hey, like, can you give a monthly $3 donation to support our cause? A lot of people shy away from that because like, Oh, my gosh, I’m asking somebody to give 35 $10 a month. That seems like a pretty big ask, but really, just being honest and upfront about what you’re doing and why it’s important is super important. Also, being timely, being like relevant to the moment is super important, like people want to be engaged on. People really want Teo hear from your organization, right when the moment happens, thinking about like family separation of the border. They’re just so many people who wanted to be involved and so having a way to talk directly to supporters. Eyes really important. So I was a honest, timely And of course you need to add value, Tio. I mean your email program. It’s definitely a two way street, right? We’re not just sending mathos ostomel just of fund-raising really has to add value to the support of this border has to feel engaged into your mission on DH. That’s another great way that email like, serves that purpose. What is what is friends of the Earth do carry to show this respect that Sarah’s talking about? Yeah, So if you think about what motivates a small dollar donor to give, it’s not necessarily because they care about the specific organization. They’re really trying to advance their values through through there giving, and that’s the way they see themselves as being able to make change in the world. So as we’re fund-raising from our small dollar donors, we want to give them the credit for the work the organization can do. Those aren’t our victories. There actually are donors victories when we win a campaign, it’s because people gave us $5 out of their Social Security checks, and they deserve the credit for that. Like that’s not ours. So how do you share that specifically What? How does friends of the Earth share that? Sure that impact. Yeah. We always use a lot of you language in all of our messaging. So we never say Friends of the Earth And this we say you did this. We want to make sure the word you appears in almost every paragraph in an email whenever we possibly Can you say if you save this or you change the law? Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Okay. It’s time for a break. Pursuant. The art of first Impressions. How to combine strategy analytics and Creative two captive to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. That’s their e book on donor acquisition. It’s still up on the listener landing page. How do you make that smashing? First impression donor-centric keep them. This is how you keep them coming to you. It’s at Tony dahna. I’m a slash pursuant with a capital P make the capital P for pursuing this week. Now back to small dollar donor power. Like, how often do you communicate with you? Share the impact with somebody who’s let’s say, has gives three times a year is only at those three times, not it all way. Always want to be intertwining sametz impact messaging in every communication that we send for friends of the earth. That’s about an e mail a day for most people. So every single day, just reinforcing that narrative of like you can change laws, you can change policies you’re empowered to do. These things, whether you’re giving, are signing a petition or making a phone call to your decision maker. It’s all part of the same set of impact methods. So, like, it doesn’t really matter what way they’re engaging with us. We always want to be rewarding the impact that they’re having. Okay, so someone makes thes donations typically online. I’m assuming we’re talking about small dollar because they’re coming from e mails. All right, so they get an immediate getting immediate acknowledgement. Thank you. Absolutely. Okay. And then what would be the next? Uh, suppose it was a $25 gift. They get immediate. Thank you. When’s the next time would be the next day? You said. You said everyday. Is there any Is there any suspension of suspension of mailing for a couple days to give the person a break or they hear from you is like Day two. They’re going to get going, get some impact message. They could get something to hours later. Even if something happens out in the world and we need Teo, go to them and ask them to respond again. Like, for example, if somebody gives to help stop drilling in the Arctic. And then two hours later, Trump releases his next Arctic drilling plan. We’re not going to hold back that information from our supporters were going to share that with them, even if they just donated and ask them two hours earlier that gave $25 you’ll ask him to give again. We may not ask them to give again, but we would ask them to take action in some way, maybe to volunteer, get old solution way call legislator or something that Okay. Uh, all right. How about, uh, another? Well, honesty. You said honesty. I mean, they got don’t do flush out honestly do we mean? I think is pretty well understood. No, don’t lie to your supporters. Don’t like their potential. Supporters don’t like anyone. I think that’s just I don’t think that’s going further with that another we got lots of We got lots of time together. So still talking about basic principles of, ah, successful campaign, you want to stick with you, Go ahead. Yeah. So I think you touched on a little bit, Sarah, but with urgency and just making sure that when you’re asking people to give its relevant in that moment and you’re convincing them that by giving it will have an immediate impact. Still like, for example, if a bill is moving through the legislature right now like that’s why your contribution matters today, not tomorrow, not two weeks from now. And just constantly reinforcing that like this is the moment to engage. And if you want to have the maximum impact, now is the time. OK, Sarah. Another another principle. Yeah, sure. And she touched on and carry touched on this before. Teo, we really want to focus on building what I call horizontal relationships with our supporters. A lot of times non-profits and organizations across the board say, you know, we have this solution chip in if you want. Like we have this very big idea. We we’ve got it cover, but, you know, chip in to help us. But what we want to do is kind of take that messaging and move away from it. So it’s actually really saying to supporters like Hear that Here’s this issue. Let’s fight on it together. We cannot do it around about you helping us do it right, right, right. And it’s very, very easy on an email marketing to literally put help us in every single email. Ask. Well, Windows won’t eliminate the help us, and we actually really want to bring the supporter in. And I was telling folks during our presentation, There’s a study in the UK about horizontal relationships in sustainable giving, and people who are asked by their peers are actually twice as likely to give, which is really, really incredible on DH. That’s just something that we really want people to focus on for writing emails that sound like they’re coming from your parents. We like a vertical relationship. You probably want to stay away from that. You probably want to make sure that it’s really coming from like a respected here peer-to-peer peer-to-peer rancor. And that’s where that is from. Okay? Yeah. Okay. Um, why don’t we just keep taking off principles of success? I mean, I imagine that was a lot of your was a lot of yourself. Have you done your session yet? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. You’re on the downside then. Okay. I’m assuming a lot of your session was best practices. Basic principles. Yeah. Success in this thing? Yes. In this small dollar campaign. Give us another one. E. I mean, there’s there’s just so many. Another thing Teo is just having, like, a really, really clear email copy and just making it very simple for people to understand. Does that include short? Well, it depends. And email. We always say it defends. You should always, like test, but basically making sure that people the average like person spends 11.6 seconds reading your email, which is actually pretty long compared tto in the past. But it’s still 11.6 seconds. So just making sure that your email copy is super super clear. Your asks. They’re super clear. Your supporter is not left wondering what they khun D’oh! In that moment to drive the whole mission on the whole organization Forward. I mean, a lot of times I’ll see an e mail that has text, uh, wrapped around on action box in the in the upper right tech starts on the left. But if you want to cut right to the chase, there’s the language of the petition that we’re asking you to sign, Right? Just click there. You have to read the text explanation If you don’t want to. Yeah, yeah, and that’s accessible to everybody. Right? Like some readers like like to just immediately go on Like say, Okay, I know what I want to dio that. And then some people really like just like taking their time and background. Some people really feel down Notes of five foot note down the bottom, right, right. And being open to all levels of like readership is really important to we talked about in our training the power using inclusive language and making sure that your email copy is accessible, accessible to everyone, which is also I think that is very important in the state. How do you How do you ensure accessibility it was a couple of different ways to do that. Carrie actually mentioned a really good point with her email program, which I’ll let her talk more about. But usually people are 65 and over on email lists. So, Carrie, I’m going to kick it off to you to talk specifically about how you made it more accessible on your list. Yeah. So one of the things that we experimented with this font size. You know, a lot of people think that if you’re reading something on a mobile device, you want it to be clearly fitting the screen. But we actually found that for our older audiences, we needed 18 point fun on Mobile, which, if you think about what that looks like kind of computer, it’s huge on your phone. That’s like three lines can fit in the screen. But we tested it, and it just universally work better. Okay, Okay. How about what else do you test? What does the mother’s subject line, who signs we test took off? Well, name some names of other things besides everything. So, in one email, for example, if we’re sending a fund-raising message, we might test the subject line we might test the content. We might test the language on the donation page both in the headline of the donation page and on the body of the donation page. And we might test the ask amounts all in the same all at the same time. And so we really want to test every single piece of the experience all the time. Those of the results that were going to get back in a matter of minutes. We also might be doing some kind of long term testing. Like, for example, what happens if we segment based on highest previous gift? We might need to test that for six months to really understand the impact that’ll have. So while we’re doing all of this testing in the moment, we’re also have this backdrop of the long term testing that we’re running behind the scenes. Did you say you have one point 8,000,000 was 1.31 point. Okay, so you have the luxury of having a large, large numbers that you can test with. So I suppose a list supposed listens only 10,000. Can you still do? Abie testing with 10,000 persons list? Yeah. What? I’d like to tell people is don’t worry about getting sister’s school significance or being like a data purest. It’s fine. The goal, really for, like, email eyes just to improve your email content so that you can raise more money. That’s really all it takes. I mean, you, Khun segment off a 10,000 list into, like to, what? 2,000 list for subject lines and just see if there’s a bumper. Not really. Doesn’t have to be that complicated. And again, like our goal. For me, for AC Blue and for Carrie is like to make in this presentation is really It’s like, take, like the fear out of email and actually make it to listen right? Exactly. That’s what I should have said. The whole university invention non-profit treyz right there. There you go ahead. I cut you off. No, it’s okay. I know, but really it’s like take the fear out of e mail on DH to take the fear out of fund-raising. This is something that anyone could. D’oh! Yeah, Okay, Okay, That would be a good rap up play point, but we have another 10 minutes left. Ok? Because this is 1/2 hour segment Yeah, so I’m not letting you off the hook, so that would be good. Rap will come back to you later, okay? In about 10 minutes. So let’s keep talking about I don’t know testing. Is there anything more we can say about testing? Either of you carry Sara about anything more you want to add about testing? I think the big thing is look for the stuff that’s going to have the greatest impact. So you know, you might test two versions of your content, but if it’s only one line difference, then you’re probably going to see a really small change. As a result of that is opposed to completely rewriting the E mail, you’ll probably see a much bigger change. And it’s not really that much more investment of time to create the much more different version and the results that you get well, just be that much more valuable. So we really look for the places that we can make those radical improvements or something we’ll just radically fail. But then at least we know, you know, rather than constantly testing around the margins. Okay, Okay. Test for significance. What have you found about who signs an email. You have signers to your email? Yeah. Now, of course, this is unique. Understands unique Teo, Friends of the earth. Thes result. Your your results may vary, but what has friends of yours found for us? Who signs What? Successful? Yeah. So we test it in two places. One is the sender, and one is who actually has their name at the bottom of the text. We have found that it makes osili no difference whose name is at the bottom of the texts. But the sender could make a really huge difference for us. The organisation’s name is usually the winner. So coming from friends of the Earth beats coming from our president’s name. But the thing that actually wins the most is just like a totally random like climate alert or be action. Something that is about the issue rather than about the organization or an individual. And that’s as a sender. Yes. Oh, interesting. Okay. Okay. Um Okay, so we’ve exhausted testing. We feel like you said everything. It was there more. Anything more. You want to know about testing, testing principles? Yeah, I think it’s just important for all testing. It’s really like optimizing your content ofthe devising your ask amounts, and it’s just a continual thing. Having one test for email is probably a good place to start and again, Really, anybody could do this. Yeah, okay, okay, Let’s continue with our basic principles. That good. Keep going, Sarah. Cool. Another basic principle. Trying to think. I mean, there’s just there’s just so many We went through so many again trying to think, Let’s get carried. You got one. You got one in mind in your mind, I think, like relevance is super important. Like, what do your supporters actually care about? It’s probably not the same thing that your organization’s leadership or even your organization staff really care about. So try to think about it from your supporters perspective. Like, what is it that makes them get excited about in our example? Environmental protection like water, the things that are their core values And how do you speak to those things like it’s probably not the amendment to the budget bill that’s passing through the house tonight. You know, that’s probably not thinking about Okay, right? How do you find that out? How do you know what your supporters were interested in? So I think some of it comes from just listening to the different staff of the organization who interact with supporters. If you have people who work in the community like if your service organization than get their stories go out on a site, visit with them for us. We always talk to our donorsearch Mrs Staff, who answered the phone from donor-centric leave the major donor calls, but the it’s all dollar donors who might give through direct mail or other channels who actually called the office to give us feedback that Khun just give a really interesting perspective on how people are interacting with us and then even things like social media or people who hit Reply on your mass e mail. You know it’s not data driven, but it can kind of guide some of your thinking and get you out of the bubble. So these air folks who call probably to complain about something sometimes I’m guessing most of the time, most of time, right. But you’re able to turn that call around first by satisfying hearing the principles we talk, you know, validating their concern, apologizing, fixing it on. Then you can get information from them about what it is that motivates them around. Friends of the Earth work? Absolutely. Yeah. So staff is all trained to do that. It doesn’t just happen. Doesn’t just happen. Staff is intentionally trained, you know, Let’s get some information while we’ve got these people on the phone and they’re feeling good, um, you’re familiar with the service recovery paradox. I’m not? No. Okay, that’s that because we’re talking about people calling and complaining. Ah, a person will be a person will be mohr committed to a brand. If there’s been a problem and it got solved, then if there was never a problem because they got the opportunity to be heard they had the opportunity to interact with staff on the problem. Presumably get solved. So they’ll be they’ll be more committed than the person who never has a problem, right? I think that that’s why it’s paradox Interesting. Okay, um, more principles. Sarah passed last time. So no person are you, Carrie, You give another one. Since we’re with you, then we’ll come back. So I’m never going back. But she passed up returns. Think if you’re talking about small donor fund-raising, you always want to make sure that you’re giving people the right ascot the right time. So if someone’s capable of giving $30 don’t ask him for five. If someone’s capable of giving $5 don’t ask them for 250. You know, all of our son isms have data, or you, Khun do some analytics to find out what each individual donors has previous gift is or if they’ve never given before you contest into what makes the most sense. But you want to be talking to people and meet somewhere there at rather than trying to, like a massively over sell them in a way that isn’t accessible. Okay, Okay. Before I ask you for principal, I’m gonna ask you, Sarah, how does one become a email? Your director of director of email? Yeah. That’s not a That’s not a major. No, no, we don’t go to college for that. How do you do? You work your way into that? Yeah, sure. So I graduated college and I it worked as a field organizer for then Senate Senator Kay Hagan. So I really liked what state? The state of North Carolina. OK, Yeah. I’m sorry. I should know that I should I own two homes in North Carolina. Really? Pinehurst and Emerald Isle. Okay, but I’m not from there. Yeah, I didn’t know. Okay, Don’t. Yeah. Now it’s now it’s ber until us all right now the current. Yeah, we lost another current guys. Yeah, but I didn’t know. Okay? Yeah. Eso graduated field organizer. I love talking to people, but I didn’t think that knocking on doors was going to be my life’s calling And my life’s work. Eso ended up getting into digital fund-raising Just because I was just you could talk to people at a massive scale which is really empowering and very cool Uses both sides of your brains. You could be like creative. But of course, we’ve talked a lot about testing on this times. You kind of have a science to it. Also right. Eso I’ve spent like 4 to 5 years and political fund-raising, so I work for the DSCC. I work for Revolution Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. Okay. Yeah. I worked for a revolution messaging a za consultant there, and I was formally the deputy email director at the Democratic National Committee, the DNC, where we had a multi $1,000,000 programme and I’m up at blue. So I’ve been very fortunate to have really great, like female mentors on work on female teams. And so I credit them a lot. Teo, you know where I’m at today on DH. There is a lot of space for women to be an email. There’s a lot of space for young people to be an email on DH. There’s a lot of space for people who haven’t really been involved in email. Toe start. I was with a panel yesterday, which was called I don’t have you know, I left him back in the hotel yesterday’s notes, but was called grit. Female was basically female technologists go that you’re nodding. I didn’t It’s okay, but it was great how to be a successful female in technology. That right? Very good, Carrie, how’d you work your way into being an email scientist? Yes. So I started answering. Our phone line for donorsearch vis is which is why I feel so strongly about your whole career’s friends of the earth. Yet so far on. And basically I discovered that I really wanted to have an impact on the issue that issues I cared about. But I didn’t really want to be dressing up in a suit and going in meeting with a lot of people on the hill. I really wanted to be, you know, out in the field, talking Teo really human beings. And email was just the right mix of those things where I could ask people for money to help further the mission. Or I could give people the tools to lobby their own. Elected officials are whatever the action mechanism was, it was all in my fingertips, and I never have to put on the suit, so that looks okay, doesn’t it? Okay, so we’re back to you practice. Best practice. Did you think of one since the last time? Yeah, I think so. Back to what Carrie was saying about multi-channel about talking to other people within the organization. I think that that is really, really important. Usually when I started a new organization, or like every three months, I’ll talk Teo, just different folks just to get some authenticity and authentic voice. I mean, people are craving authenticity and email, so that’s a really good way to do it. Another thing. That and another question that I got during the panel was direct mail and email. And how do those two things relate? And can they co exist? My personal opinion is yes, they absolutely can. You can use direct mail pieces and email vice versa. You, Khun, send email to to direct mail folks too for a multi touch, eh? So that’s another thing, too, that I think non-profits Khun really explore its really not one or the other. You can have both had someone on the panel yesterday who said that their donors loved getting. They thanked them for direct mail letters that say thank you for an email gift for non line gift. Yeah, yeah, it’s a really good way to keep your sustainers like, really happy. And that’s like your big donor based. Okay, how often would you thank sustainers as often as I can after every gift every month? Well, usually you could do in personal personalization so you can say, like, Hey, you’ve made, like, a $3 monthly donation and literally you just put Inem dash and say thank you. It’s it could be that simple, or it can be like so extreme that you write like a hand written thank you know and send it in the mail. So it just depends on what your capacity is. But just giving, you know, those donors a sense of like appreciation is super important you want. Do you want to touch them at every at every monthly donation, one way or the other? Yeah, well, I’m That’s my personal belief. I think people like they pretty much know that they’re doing a monthly donation and actually reminding people that they gave him a plea donation for us. Like I haven’t seen any dropoff whatsoever. I know a lot of people are like aholic. I’m nervous about reminding people that they have a monthly donation, but I think for us, it’s like part of a gang. Like the honesty authenticity on being up front with people in where they stand. I’ve heard it both ways. I’ve heard. Set it and forget it. Don’t remind them. But then you risk when the court expires or it gets compromised. They decide they have had enough, and I don’t really hear from them very often. But there’s two sides to that argument, right? Okay. What? Carrie, I’m gonna let you wrap it up. We got just like, 30 seconds or so left. Give us a motivation about small dollar donation campaigns. Yeah, I mean, I think for friends of the Earth, it’s really been a a game changer for us. You know, every dollar you raise online has the potential to be unrestricted. So it means that you can run the programs that you want to run as an organization without being required to do what a major donor wants you to do or what a foundation wants you to do. You could be much more flexible, and you’re empowering human beings in the real world to be a part of your cause and advanced the mission that you care about. And there’s just no better way to do that than building those relationships online. Where people, you know in the 21st century, that’s where they’re at. So we meet them where they’re also thank you. That was That was Cary Man. She’s deputy director of digital membership and advocacy at Friends of the Earth and also Sarah Kerrigan, email director. Attack Blue. Thank you Each very much. Thanks. Much pleasure. Thank you. And thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC all of our 19 1990 seon reviews are brought to you as from our partners at ActBlue free fund-raising tools that help non-profits Macon Impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’re accountants, for God’s sake. Okay, you know you know what they do. Do you need one? Do you need help with your form? 9 90 is the time to change ordered firms. Perhaps they’ve got a deep rich practice for non-profits and they’re growing it. You could be a part of that. You know a partner. You know, one of the insiders Yet which tomb? He’s been on the show. Check him out. Give him, then give you a ring. Get started at wagner cpas dot com. Now time for Tony’s take two. My video is two ways to be a good American Abroad. I was in Paris for two weeks and while in Brussels, Belgium. Short hour and 1/2 train ride away. Ah, I witnessed some some bad behavior. Bad Americans abroad. There were two things that particular relating Teo language and currency and those air. But those are the two subjects. But how can you do them better than these ugly Americans that I witnessed in Brussels. That’s what the video is about. Now, I had said that earlier that my video was going to be a tour in L C C A launch control center from when I was in the Air Force. But I put this one up instead. The launch control center one is coming. I’m not cheating you out of the tour of the LCC, but right now check out two ways to be a good American abroad. You know where the video is? It’s at tony martignetti dot com. So now that you’ve got new donors, how do you keep them? Here is donor retention. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 1990 si. You know what that is? It’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. We’re in Portland, Oregon, at the Convention Center and this interview, Like all our 19 ntcdinosaur views brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact, I guess now are Laura Cole and Cole. Hey, Big Laura is director of account Services at Sancti Communications. Paul is president of Sank a communications Welcome. Welcome, Laura. Welcome poem Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having us. Pleasure. You’re seminar topic is finders keepers the art of donor of retention? I don’t know how many guests have been on non-profit radio telling us that the cost of retaining a donor is so much less than the cost of acquiring a new donor. More. Let’s start with you. What are what are non-profits Just not getting them. This is not just within the past six months. For years we’ve been talking about donorsearch tension problems. Retention rate is so low, I don’t know what the most current is, but it’s it’s it’s sad, Whatever it is, what are we not getting right? And you’re welcome to give the most recent stat if you I’m sure you know it. So I think it’s a great point and I think one of the reasons why we wanted to talk about it today and in our session. We really focused on it too. Is that this? This December was definitely a challenge for a lot of non-profits, and it was particularly a challenge for getting new donors in the door. And that means that retention becomes that much more important and to your point. Retention doesn’t happen. You really have to tow work and focus on your communications to make sure that you’re building that relationship because it’s donors are going to give. But you have to take that is the first step of the relationship and really work on cultivating them so that they’re going to become lifelong donors. Paul, Why we’ve been talking about this for so long. Why are non-profits not getting the message that Laura just redid? Rated for the 1,000,000 times? You know, I ended the session off with the audience and said to them, You’ve already done. You’ve really done your session this on the down side already on our way to end it all by saying, Don’t be impatient, Don’t dahna Retention takes time. It takes time to improve it. So we did a case study with the African Wildlife Foundation, and we’ve been working with them for like seven years, and we were able to get there Don’t retention right now. Currently in two thousand eight from 2,018 upto almost 70% prior. You’re donors to give again in the second year, and it took years of planning and communicating and it really is the foundation of what we discussed. And what we believe in is that you really need to build the foundation with technology, good technology from the start. And so this organisation, we went through a really important and arduous database and technology conversion for them almost three years ago, three years ago. I think he was closer to 55 years ago, and so we were able to actually put all the pieces that you need to make this a mohr automated process to really focus on things which allowed the organization and us and freed us up to be more creative with how he spoke to donors. The campaigns that we produced for the organization and really give them an engaging donor experience throughout the 12 month period that we benchmarked this morning. All right, so it’s a long term process you need to have. You need to have infrastructure in place before you can before you can hope to move the needle on potential. It is buy-in caps. Elated. This Yeah, I know. The idea is that one of the things we’ve mentioned at the end was you have to invest. Unfortunately, we’ll invest in the technology even before we even get into donorsearch tension versus new donorsearch attention. It is important because what happens is if you don’t have that infrastructure there. Misstep and interesting. It was the way originally were caught. We’re going to call the session howto lose a donor in 10 days kind of pop culture reference for a movie. But it really is true. Is that idea that in the first part of the relationship, if you have a misstep, you probably lose a donor for life if you, you know, code them differently if you personalize something and it’s the wrong information, if you don’t thank them in a timely manner. And there’s a lot of different things that go into that so really kind of making sure that infrastructure is up and running to make sure that you don’t have those early missteps so that you can create a lifelong donor-centric to get to some of the pitfalls you have in your your description talk about pitfalls that are causing dahna patrician. So why did you want Okay, well, naming the person incorrectly. Yeah, Personal personalization is one of our most powerful tools in marketing and fund-raising, but if you call Bob Barbara, you know, you kind of lose a donor for life for sure, making sure that you I already have in motion the idea that if someone comes on brand new, this is like a data problem that people do that you’re suppressing the people who are new versus old and actually figuring out who they are. So, for instance, I make a donation. A lot of signs, some systems is that you’ll go right into the next campaign stream. But I just made my first donation. So what we can certainly do with the technology for our clients is that will create an automated program that will actually capture that new donor-centric, possibly who hasn’t giving but maybe give their email address for the first time and put them on a separate track and making sure that at the same time they’re suppressed from any other campaigns. Generally, the can kapin would have some kind of fund-raising asked. So really kind of setting the stage of their relationship for the beginning and not forgetting that they just made a donation and really trying to the information that we provide in that Siri’s is meant to be engaging in the part where it actually educates them on the mission and deeper into the program versus you know, usually probably what we brought that original donor and is on some kind of urgency, you know, really quick and got emotional reaction. But at that point, then you have there you have their attention, and you have to use it wisely. Okay, and Laura suppress them For how long? So generally, what what will work with organizations to do is to build a really robust welcome Siri’s. And that usually is at least fortified emails that will go out over, say, 2 to 3 weeks. So making sure that they complete that cycle before they start to get the regular stream of communications. So they’re not kind of being dropped in in the middle of one campaign, or they’re not getting the welcome Siri’s and that campaign. But instead they’re really sort of sitting by themselves, getting this very targeted, very tailored Siri’s that’s going to introduce them to your mission to the organization, tell them what their their donation has done before you ask again. So it’s really making sure that those and and to go back to sort of the movie reference that we made its It is like a relationship, and if you make a mistake in the first date or the second date or the third date, you’re probably not going to turn into a long term relationship. But Teo ads that question about how long it does vary from organization to organization. What we discussed this morning would be the organization that we were case studying, which is the African Wildlife Foundation. They have a membership program. So the how long is a shorter period of time because of the membership program and a lower dollar average gift for them. Repetition in marketing fund-raising is key to their success. But some organizations we work with that might start off at a much higher average gift. That’s where you’d have to really kind of b’more conscientious on the frequency and how when that next asks, Come in. So that could be you know what with the organization with membership, you might be 2 to 3 week where you’re suppressing, but an organization that has a higher average gift donor-centric month or two before or really looking at they’re giving history, so it’s not a one size fits all. It really has to be customized to each organization and what their mission and what type of donors they do have. Oh, and and also targeted to the constituent. If you’re talking about a donor that’s giving a small gift, you’re you’re going to want to suppress him for a shorter period of time than someone that gave you $10,000. That person’s going to need a lot longer period of pure cultivation before you make that ask again. Okay, let’s let’s do some more pitfalls like these pitfalls to avoid attrition. Absolutely. Go ahead, I think. One of the big ones. And this is partly why digital retention tends to be lower than direct mail. Is not making sure that you’re updating donor email addresses, whether they tell you that they have a new email address. But even more proactively finding out what the what what? Maybe someone’s new email address is called in a way or email. Change of address process. Something like that where you’re you’re actively saying, let me make sure that I can keep emailing a donor because email addresses changed much more frequently than someone’s mailing address. People don’t generally move as much as they change their email address. Maybe they go to a new job. Maybe they switch from Yahoo Hotmail. So making sure that you can keep talking to them, because if you’re not going to talk to them, you can’t make that ask. You can’t cultivate and they’re not going to get there much less likely to give again if you kind of lose touch. I’m not even sure that non-profits know a lot of them know that there are services that will do it. The email change of address for you, Yeah way the Postal Service with, like, a a national change of address I have now on the way. I have, ah, have a little personal story, my dad’s name and my name or the same Anthony martignetti, but he uses A J. He’s Anthony Joseph. I have the same middle name, but I never used the J. There’s one indicator that we’re different. Also, his his current address is not my last address. I haven’t lived there since I was nine, eighteen 18 years old. I went to college. I moved. I moved from New York City to North Carolina. More than a dozen charities started emailing Anthony J. Martignetti to my North Carolina address Charities that my dad is a is an active donorsearch. For now, he’s a small level donor. Is he’s one of those guys who writes like 15 $2025 checks, and I mean literally he does dozens of these a month. He gives a lot at the end of the year, so they were. So they were aspiring to be proactive. But there were two flags that should have been raised that that I’m not the guy, that he’s not the guy who moved the middle initial and the last address. So that brings us to another pitfall. It’s one of the major pitfalls pitfalls. A lot of non-profits full into his data issues data. Bad data can really harm donorsearch tension. So in your case, these organizations are not actually there. There, there, there, there, looking up your information. It’s either it’s household or individual. And so you can. We’ve seen this happen for organizations where you’ll get a household match, and that’s what you’re what happened with name yes, but versus an individual, which is directly just you and that address. But it brings back the point, which I think we’ll go back to our topic on pit bulls data. It could be the right that for all non-profits not. And it’s the hardest part for an organization that really both invest the time and money and resource is. That’s usually people power to make sure that you have clean data for knowing when someone is active or made a gift recently, and then you ask them by actually ask him to renew when they just renewed a month ago. Or I mentioned the personalization piece or recognizing when someone is, ah, high dollar donor-centric. And that’s one of actually the things that you mentioned. Is it really important? Sustaining giving is one of the differential factors where online retention doesn’t actually start going up from offline retention if you’re really good at recruiting sustainers or monthly givers and then making an active effort. So part of the case study with you this morning was that we’ve been actively growing the sustainers file for this organization, and it right now they’re they’re about 25 plus percent that there digital giving is coming from sustainers e-giving, which each year helped their retention grow, and that’s why they’re close to 70% now on retention because of that. But when we treat sustainers, we always recognize that there are sustainers. So even though that you don’t want to stop communicating sustainers gonna wantto forget about the organization. But we segment and we recognize their contribution and we usually put them in a lot of the engagement campaigns and cultivation. The awesome part about sustainers is they’re so engaged with the organization what I always call the 13th gift. So that will be a monthly Don’t make 12. They’ll make that 13 because they’re so engaged. But you have to really treat them well and so generally will maybe get they’ll get a matching gift campaign, maybe year, and to say, Hey, we have this match going on. We know you’re a monthly supporter, but we just wanted to bring it to your attention. It’s all about the nuance messaging and really think about that. But it goes back to the data being clean and knowing who you’re speaking to, segmenting your audiences and really paying attention to that and bad data. Really, convict can really lead, Yeah, two mistakes like that. Now you know if if it wasn’t my dad I wouldn’t be. Wouldn’t wouldn’t have given them the second chance. I just tossed it or said, You know, take me off your list. Hence, how to lose a donor in 10 days Time for our last break Text to give. Get their five part email Many course to dispel the myths around mobile giving Donations do not have to go through the donors phone company. They don’t have to be small. There aren’t large startup costs. You don’t need to know a lot of technology. You can do this. You can do mobile giving. You get the five part email, many course and it’ll explain how to get started. Um, you get that by texting NPR to 444999 You’ve got butt loads. More time for donorsearch retention anymore. Pitfalls. I liked the men I like taking off these things, that organ ords maybe doing wrong. So so along the lines of what you brought up, I think one of the biggest pitfalls is not respecting when when donorsearch Hey, I don’t want to get mail or you have the wrong address. Please update it. Donors who bothered to reach out and tell you that are very loyal donors. If they’re proactively reaching out and saying, Please send, you know, to this new email or this new postal address or this is the wrong you know, middle initial or this is the wrong no last name. Anyone who reaches out with that cares a lot about the organization. And so it’s making sure that you’re respecting that and that there’s business rules and to Paul’s point, people in place to make those updates right, because the second time, the person when the first that’s right, second request. Then you’re done. This is your you’re hurting. So absolutely that dovetails into a point of really making sure the right hands talking to the left hand, where if you’re running a campaign that you have really good donorsearch vis reps who understand what’s going on with the fund-raising department and can actually feel those questions. So they got a matching gift request, for instance, knowing that when they answer the phone that they were talking about that a lot of time. Our donors donors will call for organization to say well, might give still be matched. I’m a little late, so having someone ready to know that. But at the same time, what we find the organizations have been most successful is when they have somebody on the phone who can really take a donor complaint and make them to a lifelong donors. And it’s just really preparing them and training them on DH, treating someone like a human being and understanding that even their $25 gift is just as important as the $1,000 gift when they when they take the energy to call the organization. And generally you can really kind of swing a donor to be really lifelong supporter as long as you have somebody on the lines and the phone. Many organizations forget about that, and you made a good point this morning, which I’ll let you make about even just the last week of the year. Well, it’s It’s remembering that some of the biggest giving days on the online side are not working days. It’s the end of the year. It’s Christmas, it’s New Year’s. It’s days when the office may be closed. But if no one’s answering the phones when you have donors trying to make a gift, you know if you get back to them in January. It’s too late, you know, a sort of mist that window. And so it’s thinking about customer service, especially on those key days when, even if you know, recognizing it’s a holiday. But it’s when people are giving and needing to be there for the donors. Do either of you know the There’s a paradox service like service repair paradox or something like that in customer service, where if you’ve made a mistake and corrected it as a as a company, you will. You will have a more loyal customer than if you hadn’t made the mistake in the first place. And that’s goes to what you were describing. Pull their end well and Laura, too, that that there’s someone there responsive that actually makes the change or correct the problem. They have to be empowered to correct the problem, and if they do, you’ll have a more loyal well, it feeds over in our in our circle. It does have a more loyal donor-centric to begin with, so we made a point this morning. Another don’t was when your when your service recovery, that’s what service recovery paradox. So we made a point talking about the fact that Okay, so you’re going to make mistakes sometimes. So just say, make sure your emails rendering correctly when someone views it makes sure when someone lands on a donation form, it’s working correctly. However, technology breaks down sometimes, regardless of how much you test how great you are at that. But what I talked to the audience about is as long as you’re both timely with your apology and also just things do happen. And, you know, one of the best examples would have been Steve Jobs. When the iPhone had the antenna issue, he pretty much changed the entire power paradigm for PR in the sense of how he handled that situation where they were. They were roasting Apple at that point, and he actually turned it around and it became the best selling high phone because the way he handled that, he took responsibility and they moved on. And I think the quote was, well, technology breaks down. Actually, all phones dropped calls, and it’s not just it’s not just the iPhone and that quickly the media shifted there, but the whole idea is being quick and nimble and being able to go back out So the non-profit has an issue with their donation form or something with their sight being quick and being able to be. You know, sometimes humor works in some ways and some organization, depending on your mission. But being direct on that and really kind of talking about it and getting out getting in front of it is so important. And again, then you know that that that experience level, we actually see that a lot of the times those correction emails do perform quite well, sometimes even better than the other emails in the Siri’s. When you go back and you’re just really human and honest about what happened and take responsibility exactly that za piece of what a piece of what you’re describing all right, and and to your point earlier about the small dollar donor to remember that for that donor, that’s that’s a big commitment they’ve made for you. It’s a it’s a small amount of money, but for them it’s a big commitment, and so treating them well regardless of the amount of money that they give. And that’s one thing that the digital space allows for is that high touch treatment allows for the personalization it allows for. The customization allows those donors to feel special regardless of how much they’ve given and in terms of numbers. Sometimes the small dollar donors that given year after year and say, Hey, I’ve moved, please update it. Those may be your best plan giving prospect so you can’t dismiss them even if they’re giving you a little amount, because for them, it’s a It’s a lot I do plan. Giving consulting now 1997 carrying on and the ultimate retention I’ve seen lots of seen lots of eyes algorithms, I guess, for you know, who makes a good plan giving prospect. I still think the best plan giving prospect is that person who’s given you 23 gifts in the past 25 years exactly on the most recent one was no more than, like, six months ago or something. Yeah, they are thinking about you every single every single year, and I don’t I really don’t care. Here’s $10 a year. In some cases, I think they’re testing you, but they’re probably testing you for 23 years. But but some of those initial small dollar gifts they may be testing you do I get a thank you is a timely yeah. Did they screw things up in the thank you, you know, etcetera. So I think there’s some of that. Some of the testing on the small dollar lord to your point about small dollar donations. But they are enormously good playing, giving prospects that kind of that kind of loyalty and longevity, even if even if small, small, double digit levels very good plan giving prospects here earlier point about because acquisition is so challenging. Some one plan gift from someone who made a gift for 20 years who can pay for an acquisition program for an entire organization meeting. You know, you you invest that money 20 years ago and then you’re banking on it later on where they’ve left this entire you know, there’s a part of their state to an organization, and so it’s important, actually tracked those folks right to find out what the origin of those folks who do come in because it’s generally as you just said, those low Doyle. The donor’s really do care about the organization. That’s why they stuck around for 23 years. It is important. Look, back-up e-giving history and try and ascertain from those patterns. Hoo hoo! Your other good prospects are. Yeah, and that’s one thing we spoke about at the session is, is the data side of it is is to really track retention and really leverage it. You have to have the data collection in place. You have to know who your donors are. You need ideas for them. So you contract. They’re giving year over year, but you also need to be able to identify where they came from in the first place. If you want to invest smart going forward, you have to know what your investments really yielded in the past. And so the cost of acquisition. What’s the source? The source, the source? And what did it cost exactly? And even if it was a long time ago, being able to know what that was is really valuable. That’s a great transition anymore, Waken say about technology. I mean, well, you both in it a lot. There’s no anymore more strategies around technology that he needs to be in place. So Paul touched on it, and I think it’s important is to recognize that your technology can can work for you or against you and recognizing where it it is working for you and maybe where it’s it’s presenting challenges and and maybe those air too much, and you’re really costing yourself on the retention side for not investing in technology. But it’s also recognizing that technology without the people to really leverage it isn’t going to get you very far that you need data people you need. You know, people who know how to use the technology and can really make it work for you. So I think it’s It’s technology, by itself is not powerful. It’s technology and people and subsided. And what you’re saying is you have to hire the expertise that you need. If it’s not a full time employee, you have to get a consultant freelancer. You can’t You can’t manage this and master it on your own on DH. That’s not your expertise anyway. You’re zan inefficient use of your own time or your organization’s time to try to master something that you don’t know you need to. You need to invest in the talent that you need because the organizations are good at their missions. You know, in many ways, right, it’s not really about marketing or technology or database management. I mean, it does. It does come to that. Sometimes you and I think also a point you made earlier that that I do think sometimes gets lost is that when when it comes to our attention, sometimes it’s it’s fancy technology and automation and behavioral driven content. And sometimes it’s the basics. It’s the acknowledgement. Did you send an acknowledgement? Did it talk about the impact that the gift had did it? You know, thank the donor an appropriate way. Was it sent out on time? So with all the bells and whistles that are out there in technology now, it’s important to not forget those fundamentals and to make sure that those air in place, regardless of whether you have a staff of 10 or one very well said you should be co presidents. Take note of that account services sounds sounds beneath her to mate. We’ve been working together for 10 years. It’s true. That’s good. Yeah, co President. Um, okay, let’s look metrics. You talk about metrics to measure churn and retention. Who wants to wants to kick off the metrics? We got like, four more minutes left together. So you want to start for so the biggest thing when it comes to metrics is, is having the data in place and knowing whether or not you even have the data to track it. And the key for retention is that you’re tracking donorsearch cohorts. So it’s not talking about the total number of gifts that’s talking about donors and specific groups of donor. So when you want to measure overall retention from one year to another, you need to know which donors gave in your one and which donors went onto given year, too. So so if you can actually identify that because you don’t have the ideas or you don’t have the data in biology infrastructure, just talking, you’re not going to get anywhere. And similarly, knowing someone who’s new versus who’s who’s renewed is quite important because going back to the point you made earlier about acquisition, the retention of a new donor right now hovers around 25%. And so really tension of a 1st 3rd 1st time, first time donors so well, so organized organization whose 75% of the people they broke time don’t Yeah, and so there is making sure you have the ability to track these things so that you actually then Khun, figure out you’re targeted strategies towards these groups, treating them separately in some ways and actually having creative and ideas and specific pieces that go to them so that you can retain those vote for people. We kind of haven’t touched upon it. But a lot of the strategies that we’ve been implementing with great success is trying tio convert a lot of those first time donors into sustainers, and that really has helped lift the program’s on the digital side and where digital retention for the overall programs have have been on the rise a little bit, and particularly with this organization that we case study today African Wildlife Foundation that was the sustainers program has been really one of the key to the success of really good online retention because we really quickly move folks from their first gift and have strategies to convert them to sustainers and then due to individual sustainers drives where it could be coupled with the match and really kind of back to really strong, evocative creative that goes back to for there in this mission is, you know, poaching of elephants and the crisis that’s going on there, but it works with other organizations to. And so the success of those programs and then having the data to make sure that you actually keep the retention of your sustainers is another really important factor because that there’s there’s low hanging fruit that that could be easily forgotten or missed by organizations on when credit cards expire and making sure that you really invest in that channel, you know, And it’s actually more channels that we’re discussing this morning. Not only sometimes email does not work to retain a sustainer, you actually need to use offline and send it direct mail piece or take it even further. And sometimes we’ll do telemarketing to see if we can get that boat that person back because their their lifetime value is greater than most other sources. Why do, uh, she would just have, like, 30 seconds? How come some How come sustainers stop sustaining? I think two reasons I think one is some sustainers don’t realize that they’ve became a sustainers so generally in the 1st 2 or three months on stage, it was a mistake, and that goes back to data making sure that when you when you confirm those sustainers that you actually tell them they’re sustainers. OK, there is like a threshold where they passed 13 and four, and then you got them. The other thing is credit cards. A little scripture expire expires. Or they or yeah, exactly. And they decide to have done it long enough because you kind of want sustainers toe almost go on autopilot and, you know, and then really, you still want to engage them, But you don’t need to constantly remind them that they’re making that gift. But you wanted still engage them on your mission. So those air to areas where I’d say that where you would lose sustainers. Okay, we’ve got to leave it there. That flu fantastic was awesome. All right? Yes, they’re both with. Thank you, Communications. Paul is the president, and Laura is soon to be co president, but currently director of account Services. This interview, like all the 1990 sea interviews brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits Macon impact. Thanks so much for being with non-profit radios. Coverage of 1990 si next week. Tech accessibility and culture of resilience. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuing capital P by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers Regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made Easy text. NPR to 444 999 are creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. The With Me Next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Yeah, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time And listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential live life your way on talk radio dot And why easy? Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dafs Theo Best designs for your life Start at home. I’m David. They’re Gartner interior designer and host of At Home Listen, Live Tuesday nights at 8 p.m. Eastern Time As we talk to the very best professionals about interior design and the design, that’s all around us right here on talk radio dot N. Y c. 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Nonprofit Radio for May 17, 2019: Nobody Reads Your PDFs & Map Your Data

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Genie Gratto, Meghan Hess & Nathan Gasser: Nobody Reads Your PDFs
Formatting your reports and research in PDF may bore your audiences to where they refuse to read your stuff. Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference helps you assess what’s best for your nonprofit’s content, including interactive formats. They’re Genie Gratto at GWRITES; Meghan Hess from Campaign Legal Center; and Nathan Gasser with Report Kitchen.





Salim Sawaya: Map Your Data
Salim Sawaya shares ways to visualize your outcomes data on maps, which can revolutionize how you think about and deliver services. He has free and low cost mapping tools. He’s from Esri.





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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into Erato carrot itis if I saw that you missed today’s show. Nobody reads your pdf ce formatting. Your reports and research in pdf May bore your audience is toe where they refused to read your stuff. Our panel from the non-profit Technology Conference helps you assess what’s best for your non-profits content, including interactive formats there. Jeannie Grotto at G, writes Meghan Hess from Campaign Legal Centre and Nathan Goss er with report kitchen. Then map your data. Salim Sawara shares ways to visualize your outcomes, Matt Data on maps, which can revolutionize how you think about and deliver services. He has free and low cost mapping tools. He’s from Isra on Tony’s Take to the Nukes, Responsive by pursuant full service. Fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuing by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy Text NPR to four four four nine nine nine Here’s nobody reads your pdf ce from the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. That’s the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. We are in the convention center in Portland, Oregon, and this interview, like all our nineteen ntcdinosaur views, is brought to you by our partners. ActBlue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact with me Now our Genie Grotto, Meghan Hess and Nathan Gosar. Jeannie See? The closest to me is communications consultant at G writes. Megan has his digital manager at Campaign Legal Centre, and Nathan is president and executive chef at Report Kitchen. Jeannie. Meghan Nathan. Welcome. Thank you. Radio pleasure. Your topic is, uh, it’s a good one. Interesting. Nobody’s reading your pdf ce published audience friendly research and reports. Um, let’s start down the end there, Nathan. This is, uh, this is a trouble area. We’re going through a lot of time and expense to produce surveys, reports, research, and nobody’s reading it. Yeah, sex. Exactly. Right. Way being this interest in this topic up for being working with agencies and organizations and foundations for years. And exactly we said they will produce in some cases, spend two, three years and spend multi millions of dollars in research. And you’re determining. Actually, there was an article published. What if the title was? What if the solution to all our problems was locked in a piela? Somebody was reading, and it’s sort of the point Is that like, it’s not just like, oh, no one’s reading my work It’s no one’s reading work that could potentially, you know, changed the world. And it’s really bringing that up impact to this work that we’re we’re trying to address. Okay, uh, now it was This was originally titled When I first read it. Nobody’s downloading your pfc published research and reports people actually read What was the metamorphosis to nobody’s reading your pdf, but was too technical downloading or what? Uh, Meghan, can you share Will shed a light on this. It was mostly that the NTC folks, we’re helping us to edit for tea to bring more people into Russian. They head thoughts on the wording. Okay. Something provocative. No, but they were the same idea. As you know. If people are downloading it, they aren’t reading it on DH. That’s really what it is. Just about getting eyes on stuff Okay. Um, so let’s is there a problem? Let’s start. Jeanie is there? Is there a problem with the pdf format? Inherently? Oh, absolutely not. I mean, I think the pdf serves a really important purpose and and offers a way to present some of this material in a consolidated way that people can have. The issue is really thinking about audience and really thinking about why people are trying to put the information out there and making sure that those audience members are able to access exactly what they need to do the change in the world that an organization would hope they would dio. And so so, yeah, so it’s It’s not saying, Let’s not do PdF So it’s really all about let’s think about the content and think about the way that content is being delivered and make sure that it’s reaching the folks that we wanted to reach. Okay, so maybe pdf is not the best format to convey your your world saving research is that it could be. But there could also be other audiences that might need a shorter, more snack, oppcoll way of looking at some of the content, or you might be trying to create, you know, move people to action in a particular way, and they’re not necessarily going to move toe action through, you know, reading a fifty five page report. So So if you all identified different constituencies are different personas that consume data in a different way. Yeah. So? So in the session, I was presenting a few different examples that we’ve had at my organization Can be legal center on DH. The first step of when you’re gonna put research and information out to the world should really be Who is this information for and who do we want to consume it? And what do we want them to? Tokyo. So, like, free states, journalist is going to consume information. I want information very different format than a social science researcher. Sure. So So Yet putting this research out there Do we want a journalist to pick up on something? In which case we might want to pull out the three fax that we think are the most scintillating fax that a journalist might want to talk about? And do we want to put that out there in some way that’s more eye catching than buried. Fifty pages into your pdf and maybe it’LL supplement the pdf so that they can then go deeper or contact your issue expert. Or maybe you have a constituency you’re trying to reach. That’s not going to open a pdf at all and this vital information for them. For instance, we I have put together a bunch of information for returning citizens who want to know about their rights to vote. So people with felony histories and the laws are different in fifty states. For how Who is able to vote under what circumstances? And if you are looking for your particular state and your particular circumstance, you’re not going to read that information in the pdf. So how do we get that information in front of the exact right person? Okay, dahna. So, Nathan, so is our our first. I gotta wrap my right mind around this because you guys ever think about this. You all pardon me? Not you guys. You all have been thinking about this for a long time, and, uh, well, I looked at it for the first time a couple weeks ago, and I have not been thinking about it solid for the for the for the all those weeks. Uh, and my hearing Is this what we start with? What’s the purpose of the research and and who we want to have consuming? Exactly. It’s actually the way we began. So what’s our goal? Why do we have this when we have this report to begin with? Exactly. You just summarize. Probably the first five minutes. Ten minutes of talk, which was Okay, Good. I’m glad the first five minutes, not the last one, you know, is perfect. And that’s how you started. You know, the point is not what technology tools do we have available? The point is, who’s the audio snusz and who were trying to reach. And then once we reach them, what do we want him to do? What actually wanted to take Weare talking with someone after the session? About about measuring impact? You don’t measure impact with how many tweets we get. How many page using we have. How many people looked at it. We measure impact with how many laws were changed. How many people were able to vote who run before, how maney, You know, real impact in the world. And that’s the kind of thing that we’re trying. You have to start with to say what we’re trying to take. What actions do we want? These audiences, once we’ve identified them to take and what tools are they gonna need? And we take that action, you have to start at that level before you know it can really look at all the different mirriam technical tiles decided I would be most appropriate. Help us identify some of the potential audience is that we might be producing content for yes. So you said you mentioned a bit ago social science researchers, and that’s actually a great point. There are, uh, there are cases where where you know, the entire audience of, ah, body of research is other researchers now in its And the point is just to see the next step of research. And in that case, you’re going toe, you know, trust that someone’s going to sit and read through a you know, one hundred page pdf. That’s OK. They are motivated to do that. That’s not the case for you, for everyone, for most of them, in-kind of organizations that you would expect to see it in ten. They’re not necessarily right. You’ve speaking to social signs researchers. They’re probably going, you know, often one step more towards the general audience with that with other organisations. And, you know, so you want to look at our someone would be motivated to read through, you know, several page three or four page instead of two hundred, you know, Is it someone who’s going to be motivated to interact with Cem Cem data or download the data themselves and, you know, work with it that way, If someone has wants to see the information on a map and they want to zoom into their county that there’s countless examples of, you know, Megan mentioned one where oppcoll you really only care hyre about, you know, one fiftieth of her data, right? It’s the state that you live, you know. So the ability to cut away the stuff you’re not interested in is, you know, is huge. And that’s almost not possible with video because you’ve got page after page after page after page of on There’s no, you know, sort of got cutting away that that’s something like a basic Web page with a little bit of interactivity can bring. It’s time for a break Pursuant the art of First Impressions had a combined strategy, analytics and Creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. That’s very book on donor acquisition you get at the listener landing page because you want to make a smashing first impression on your potential donors. That listener landing page Tony dahna may slash pursuant capital P for please. Of course, this is a live listener loving the pasta’s pleasantries the plod classed Oh my God, the iconoclast plod class for first love The love goes out to the live listeners. Thank you for being with us. I’m glad you’re with us today. On this day that you’re listening live that I’m not in the studio alive but you’re alive. So the love goes to you and the plot class Pleasantries poured Class provoc room. I’m so glad that over thirteen thousand of with you of with you are listening on the plot classed that you’re iconoclasts If you’re If you’re on the plot class, you’re an iconoclast and the pleasantries and present trees go out to you. Thanks, Thanks for being with us Applied Class listeners. Now let’s go back. Teo, Jeannie Grotto, Megan Hesse and Nathan Goss er with nobody reads your pdf ce Jeannie. What are some other potential formats besides the written report? Well, I mean, I think one of the things that is such a huge trend right now, rightfully so in all communications and storytelling. And that’s a really big deal. And so a lot of researchers air turning two interviews and trying to tell stories through that research. And those stories can be extracted and they can be either extracted as video clips. They can be extracted, as you know, kind of, you know, even explainer videos, you know, with, like a little bit of animation, things like that. There are many ways of expressing those stories, and you know, if those stories can be great and they can be really impactful, and they can move people to be ready to make change. But if people can’t get to them, then they’re not going to make that change. And sometimes, you know, you might have a document or a report that has, you know, multiple audiences. For example, you might have one that you have to turn into your funder, and your funder is very interested in what happened over the course of the body of research. But you also might want tohave, for example. Policy makers perhaps make a policy, you know? So, for example, say you were doing a report about safe streets and you wanted local policy makers to be able to read it and read the stories that are in it and really, you know, start implementing different policy than exists in a current community. We know that one of the ways people move is through stories and that you know that tugging at their heart and sort of getting to their emotions is going Teo going to be in some ways more effective than just data and the data is important than the data backs up those stories. But being able to sort of isolate those stories Teo get people emotionally involved will help organisations make that change a little easier in a little faster. Okay, that’s related to what do you want people to do with Derek Lee? Is this a donation or is this more research? Right. It’s just, uh, awareness by a funder from four hundred. Exactly. Okay, Um, see, Megan, where what else can we talk about around this topic and sort of like before we go to the workflows, you have weight. You have method of strategies around workflows getting content from researchers into something. Get interactive format. But is there more we can we can touch on before we get to the workflows portion? I think the thing that’LL add is ahead, like three or four people come up after the session to say, How do I convince my colleagues that this is worthwhile by, um, I I think that our organization serves particularly good example of this because my colleagues are mostly attorneys and policy experts on the information that they consume is from pdf. So you know they are looking at stuff that’s out there, either. It’s government data that they’ve downloaded in a pdf form, and they’re analyzing it. Or it’s research that’s put out by colleagues and other organizations. And it’s a report, and it’s a Pdf Download it, like other social scientists were talking about. They are the audience for BTS for many times, and so Teo convince them that maybe our output we should consider other avenues for Supplementary Avenue is something that’s a struggle for a lot of a lot of folks, and I think with tip is that you don’t have to go all or nothing. You can put the information out there as the pdf, but then you can extract the information that you want to get in front of the right eyes and supplement with that. And so that’s one way to convince them that, you know, this could be something that doesn’t take away from the work that you want to put out there and only adds defected Supplementary and we’re repurpose ing And think of the energy we’re saving from having to create new content when we can produce this in a different format for lots of different audiences. Sure. And then, of course, you know, if it’s not appropriate to be putting out that pdf based on who you’re trying to reach and that’s just going to be in a wasted effort, then you know you need to talk them through the same thing. If thatyou thought process that you’ve gone through if like who is this information really for, and how are we going to get in front of them? Follow-up. I mean, I also think it’s really this is a place where metrics are really helpful And so, you know, being able to say, Okay, here’s the pdf And now, you know, maybe taking one little bit of the report and kind of creating one small interactive piece around it and sharing that and then being able to say, Okay, here’s here. The statistics around that particular piece say it’s a video. Here’s how many shares that’s gotten here, the platforms where it’s been shared on DH and really being able to serve, set that against the download. And then if you can take that interactive piece and track not just that it was shared. But then, if you can get beyond that and even figure out what actions were coming out of that, that you can help make the case along the way that these incremental steps are really useful. And then the more you’re able to make that case, the easier it is the next time around. Oh, for sure. Yeah, Break, break the barrier. That Okay, I’m glad I’m I’m glad you brought up buy-in back-up because that’s its critical and could be. You know, if you’re if you’re the sole advocate of something different, you’re you’re fighting it uphill battle. You need allies and the hyre up they are the better or the board, at least at least in number. Maybe maybe you don’t have the higher up. But if you have numbers among your peers, you know, then you can start to make the case. Okay. Okay. So, Nathan, let let’s let’s talk some about these workflows that I’m not sure I understand completely, but you’re gonna help me andare Listeners understand workflows forgetting content from researchers and authors into interactive web format. Yeah, So does this mean So it’s it’s important to look at where, you know, along with the buy-in question is, you know, what can we what steps come we implement that are going to be, you know, achievable. And if you’re asking people to radically change what they’re doing, it’s going to be a harder sell. And so if you could look at, say, Windows, a researcher gathered their data and work with it. And, for example, if a researcher gathers their data and produces a little chart in Excel or something like that, and then sends that on to the editor, you’ve lost the ability to do something interesting with the rest of the data in interactive with data because the researcher has not passed on all of that data. They sort of sliced it away and left it in excel and simple little tools like that. So the question of, you know, win in the process do we need to get involved into say, Look, we’re going to save you time. We’re gonna ask you not to make these graphs anymore and excel. And we’re gonna ask you to just turn the data, overdo it, you know, put them right into a tool that allow you to let the visitor to the website You interact with the data on their own things like that. Then you’ve got the data in a way that you can, you know that you can work with it without having Teo oppcoll towards. You know, if you similarly, if you have on article or the even the body, the text body of the work go right to a designer who’s going to produce a very sort of fancy and attractive but hard to work with, you know, production file or publication file, there’s gonna be really hard to get that back onto the web in a way that was Jean you mentioned, you know, be like skimmed and snapped and sliced in two smaller doses, You’re gonna have this big chunk of, you know fifty pages. That’s really hard to work with. So that’s the sort of workflows thing where we’re trying to say, If you try to go in and say everyone, stop what you’re doing and do it a completely different way, it’s gonna be a really hard sell it in, Say, here’s at this point instead of just throwing this file away, just copied over to this other department and they’LL let them work with that. And then you can keep doing what you’re doing That’s making was saying, You know, you don’t you know, You don’t say stop cubine completely, but you want to say Let’s try to get into the spots in the workflow that we need to pull the pieces that we need to show really the advantage of of giving somebody you know, certain more direct access to this data. D’Oh any of you have recommendations for tools that are available? Teo, help the public, uh, sort through data. Are there such tools? Another are What are they? Yes. Oh, we know. Among us. Yeah. So there’s no way we’re actually talking with someone who wanted to do basically an interactive charter graphic. So, in any case, she had some kind of of the life cycle of, ah, of an ecosystem that, you know, it was a very complicated graphic, and it it worked well in pdf. But you only because you could zoom into, like, five thousand times and see these tiny little you know, words. Um, so you know, there’s a tool, for example, called info Graham, that allows you to create that kind of interactive graphics in-kind zoom in and zoom out and just present that in, you know, kind of a one one step things that you know that works nicely for interactive graphic way of sharing info Graham and focus. Graham. Yeah. Phone in program. Okay, way Haven’t one of the things in in full disclosure. I represent a company that produces a product called Report Kitchen that does the exact same thing that we’re talking about, which is take a document that starts is a pdf and take it all the way back to having all the texts and the graphics and everything extracted and produce a Web page you could work with on add interactive video or, you know, visualizations and things like that to it. So that’s Ah, that’s another option. If you want to have sort of retain all of the information because in many cases, you know, it’s easy to say, Well, you throw away the stuff people don’t want. Well, in some cases, people want a lot of it. So, you know, being able to convert it all and have an easy step is something that we’ve put a lot of energy into this this report kitchen product that we work with. I would still have a good amount of time together. Another five, six minutes or so. What? Uh, what else did you tell your audience? That you’re not sharing with non-profit radio listeners? Sametz Amy, you lower our speaker are piela. Please get a little feedback. What about what else is there? So one thing that we did in our session was way actually distributed worksheet through the room to help people start thinking through the reports that they’re working with and what they can do with it now, like this is something that you can put in place. No matter what the status of the report Is it something that’s already been published? It’s out. There is a pdf. Let’s go back to it. Pull out the most interesting fax and make a chart about it or make it, you know, easy infographic that could accompany the report online and put that information front and center in front of people. Or maybe there’s a report that still in the brainstorming stage where you can like Nate was saying, Insert yourself into the process now early on and say, Hey, I think we could do something different with this this time s So we were trying to bring it home for people that you know, we’re putting all these in for these examples in front of you of waves that we’ve done this in the past from simple to complicated. But this is something that you can take from this conference back and do right away. This is something that you can start implementing, no matter where they you know who you’re working with. What stage of the reports that you’re working with is This is something that you can do and take away from the conference and and feel like you accomplish something having come all the way out here to go to Portland, Was this a hand out O r re sources or an online resource we can share? There is. Yeah, there’s a pdf. The thing of all the ways already a pdf has its place. It does. And yes. So we’re planning Teo, share the link to that. That worksheet is part of our community notes for that session. Okay, so where where people go for the community notes. How does that work There is? Yeah. You go on the antenna app every every session and on the site. If there is a link to the community notes and a cz wella sze to some additional resource is I believe so. Yeah. Dahna all their dahna cider on the Appia. You don’t have to remember the girl. Okay, Okay. Very good. Uh, so we still have some time together. What else? What else? Uh, don’t hold out on non-profit radio listeners. What else did you talk about? You know, the other thing that that I would say this was another question that came up kind of after the session, but there were some questions about it along the way obliquely, but really one of the things that I think non-profit folks tend to fall down a little bit on, mostly because everybody is stretched for time and resource is. And all of that is really thinking through the audience and going out and doing even the very most basic user and audience research. And so you know, one of the suggestions that I have, I think that can be really helpful is just finding a couple of the key people in the audience is that you’re looking at. So you know, whoever you’re trying to target, going out and just asking them some questions about how do they consume information? Where do they consume their information? You know, it doesn’t have to be a really intense, kind of persona building process or a really intense German process. But normal folk and formal focus group kind of questions are really helpful on doing that. You know, kind of with your audience is either the people you serve, the people that give you money, you know, whoever it may be policy. Ah, policymaker, Policymakers, staff member, You know, somebody like that. Just getting them on the phone and ask them some questions is one of the things I think that particularly non-profit calms and non-profit tech people often here is somebody will come to them and say Nobody can blank so nobody can find anything on the Web site. Nobody’s reading this report. Nobody is, you know, and usually that’s often based on some anecdotal Um, and that’s fine. That’s pretty much human nature, you know, people sort of extrapolating from the thing. So my thing is, you know, you can also use that in reverse, go out and get your own and dahna data and have that available to help make the case and to get that buy-in. And I think that’s really important and can be a first step even for a non-profit that doesn’t have the budget for user research on DH. It can be something that just doesn’t take a time of time. So it could be easy to dio. Okay. Okay. Anything else you wanna share? Way got sometime. If anybody wants to add, what else did you do this seventy five minute session. So I know there’s more we’ve only been at We’ve only been talking for about twenty four minutes, so uh, yeah. Much follow-up with you said. I think it’s really important to listen. And I think there’s a lot of a lot of folks that you do the same thing they’ve been doing kind of over and over. Or or that they see other people doing you say white. And this, well, this organisation does. This one’s age doesn’t This one’s a bit of it. It doesn’t mean that that’s the right way, you know, just because a lot of people are doing it or a lot of organizations doing it doesn’t make it right, right? Yeah. And so make it popular. So listening to people and finding out, you know, again not just listening to the complaints. Because if all you do is listen to complaints going, get steered, you know, in circles and circles and circles. But it but going out and just, you know, proactively finding out. Does this make you put a little bit of effort and say, Does this graphic make sense to you? Can you Can you find what you want out of this? Does this piece of text makes sense to you? Does this video make sense to you? Like you know what which he’s going to motivate you, which is going to give you the resource is that you need to take the action that we wanted to take. You know, just again. Like you said simple audience research as it was a lot better than just kind of listening to your You listen to the same voices he always hear Meg and I’m going to give you the wrap up. Got about thirty seconds. Motivation. Positive. Positive conclusion. I’ll just say again that this is something that anybody who works in communications or marketing or fund-raising for any organization can do no matter you know how. How stubborn a ship you’re trying to turn you, Khun, make small, incremental changes that will put the you know, this information in a more accessible format than Petey Jeff. And maybe you’re not going to be doing a big Web, native mobile friendly website instead of the report to begin with. But you, Khun, do small things with little budget and not a lot of time that will make a big difference in how your audience consumes that information by putting that forethought in before you actually just throw the pdf on the website. This is something anyone could do. All right. Thank you very much. They are Jeannie Grotto communications consultant under G writes Meghan has digital manager at Campaign Legal Center on Nathan Gaza President and Executive chef at Report Kitchen. Thanks to each of you. Thank you, Tony. Thanks for having pleasure. My pleasure on thank you for being with our coverage of nineteen. Ninety si the non-profit Technology conference. This interview and all are nineteen ninety si interviews brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits Macon Impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break when you see piela is their accountants, for God’s sake, You know what they do? The account that everybody knows that sexy PPI is like being a dentist. Everybody knows what what it’s all about. Do you need one? You need help with your form. Nine ninety is the time to change Audit firms get that fresh look. Perhaps they’ve got a deep practice for non-profits. They’re growing it. They want to grow up more. And you know what? Insider in the firm help them grow. Why? You may ask why? Because they’re sponsoring non-profit radio. You have to ask, You know the insider partner, He’s the partner yet Hooch Tomb has been on the show. Give him a ring. Check them out. Wagner cps dot com Now time for Tony Steak, too. Same videos last week because I’m away. So in the airforce during the Reagan years, I was a missile combat crew commander. First, I was a deputy missile combat crew commander, which would be a d m C C C. Then I was an M C C C missile combat crew commander. Of course, the U S A. F has its a c r o N Y m s, um, and as a d m triple C and then a m triple C. I worked in l double sees launch control centers, many of them spread throughout western Missouri. There were in other states as well. Uh, North and South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, and I think Kansas so much sure about that. But in our years, definitely those other states I named and what do we all do? Their we controlled nuclear missiles. You have direct control over ten missiles, but you got auxiliary control over another forty. So if your friends and the other capsules get wiped out. You can take over their missiles on. How do you do all this? You do it from the l double. See the launch control center, which is in which is down below on the LCF launch control facility. And it’s next to the L C E B Launch control Equipment Building. You can see all this on my video. It’s a video tour of the launch control Center. Actually, the tourist just the downstairs launch control center and adjacent next to it the L C E B launch control equipment building. Take a tour with me. Ah, the video tour is at twenty martignetti dot com and that is Tony’s. Take two. Now here’s map Your data from the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen NTC. We’re kicking off our day to coverage of the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. We’re at the convention center in Portland, Oregon, and my guest now is Salim Sawara. He’s manager of S Orry. Welcome, Salim. Thank you very much. Nice to meet you. Pleasure to have you. Thanks for kicking off our day to coverage. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Your topic is putting your data on the map techniques and tools for impact. So we’re talking about visualising data, the outcomes data or just visualizing any data geographic, many different kinds of data, any kind of data that has location involved, whether it’s related to where the people are, the places that were trying to serve, if an assist, Where are we working, where partners measure me, measurements of impact and outcomes and ultimately different ways to visualize data to engage people communicate, you know, engage with our community. OK, could be fund-raising Data also could be donorsearch donorsearch members, volunteers indicators that would help us to identify where we would find more of the people that were working with that. We’re getting donations from that air, volunteering for us, etcetera. All right, As you can hear, the crowd is approving of your of this topic and he’LL take it. I’ll tell you what’s in the background is we have the main where the main stages maybe a hundred feet away or so on DH. There’s there are ignite session’s going on where people are doing five minute quick, quick topics on and the crowd is approving of that as well, as well as what Salim has to offer. Congratulations. Um and Oh, and I neglected to say thie outset that this interview, like all our nineteen ntcdinosaur views, is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue free fund-raising Tools for non-profits. Teo, help them make an impact. Of course, we’ve got our ActBlue swag. I’m don ing it, etcetera. So thank you for that indulgence. Gotta take care of our premiere sponsor and they’re right next door. So if you’re not at nineteen NTC, come check him out after afterwards. ActBlue. Um okay, so we, uh I hear a lot that we’re overloaded with data. There’s there’s so much available. It’s hard to sort out what’s important. So I certainly resonate with the topic. Resonates with me trying to visualize it in you in your cell, in your session topic you say you’re people can revolutionize the way they deliver service asses by by visualizing their data. That’s a revolution. That’s ah, that’s a strong claim. Revolution. Not just not going to be an evolution. How do we revolutionize and has this relate Teo delivering services? Yeah, well, I mean, today we’re dealing with super complex problems, right? That deal with lots of different issues, many of them very complex into related. And it’s very hard to get a a full picture of what’s going on, where we’re working, where the people are. We’re trying to serve. In many ways, the power of geography and GS is in allowing us to integrate different kinds of data that otherwise would be very hard. Teo, Understand in one place or in one picture? Yes, yes, is geographic information. We have jargon jail on non-profit radio. No problem. You can keep me. Keep me in check. I will keep you out of Joe. Yeah, but geographic information systems is a technology that leverages the power of location and geography too. Bring data together, integrated and allow people to do different kinds of analysis, visualization. And you know, many different kinds of applications to support their work. What we see in the non-profit community especially, is the use of js helping organizations and how they identify where the place is or the people that were trying to serve or assist. Understand? Where are my resource is? Where is my work today? How how best can I align the resource is that I have with the places that I’m trying to target on DH then you know, using joyous and location data to help them measure the both the outcomes and the impact of their work. Whether that’s by collecting data, surveys of beneficiaries or actually measuring the impact of work that they’re doing or leveraging other kinds of data socioeconomic demographic data as proxies to help measure the impact of the projects and investments that they’re making. Okay, there’s a There’s a lot to unpack there. You’re an expert in data visual legation. I am not sorry you might marry trainable, but happen Alan after now. No, no, no, no, no. I wanted That’s a terrific overview is just a lot to unpack Shine we got. That’s where we got a half an hour. Um, all right, so we have a, uh I’m going to take our listeners of small and midsize non-profits so they all have a c e r N on. Let’s say, maybe they’re even using their their serum data base to help them with their program management. We’ve got a panel on that coming up, so I know that that’s eminently doable. What What do we like? What are the symptoms that were, I guess let’s start with this trouble areas. One of the symptoms that were not managing our data or we’re not getting the getting out of our data. What we need so that then visualisation can help us. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, I think whether you’re talking about donors or members or volunteers or beneficiaries, it’s really hard to get a real clear understanding of what is the make up? What is the distribution? What are the You know, where do these people exist? There are concentrations exam. You can you can you can export from your CR M to an excel she and that’ll give you Ah, I mean, I guess you could do a graph of ah bar graph of the most ten most common zip codes or something exactly. But But that doesn’t tell you as much as I would for sure, seeing seeing that kind of data on a map to allow you to see our all of my people concentrated in one place. Do we have gaps in places where we wouldn’t necessarily expect them to be? Are there are there opportunities in the landscape of where our donors or members or volunteers maybe that we could target and try to fill in gaps that we see and visualizing. Okay, And this certainly applies to local organizations. You could be mapping within a county or state, or you could be mapping the Earth. Absolutely. And that’s I mean, there’s there’s organizations working at all scales, right? So whether they’re at a neighbor murcott level trying to work on the you know their civic association and improving their neighborhood or global organizations who are working on, you know, really large, complex global issues context. The context that location provides really helps. So what kinds of questions might we be asking that way? Don’t feel like we’re getting a decent answer to now. Yeah, so a lot of the and that’s a great way to frame the discussion, because what are the kinds of questions that people ask? That location helps them to understand. One of the big things that we see a lot in the nonprofit world is am I am I getting the resource is to the places that where they’re most needed, right? Am I delivering services to the people who have the most acute need, um, I seizing those kinds of opportunities to have the biggest impact that I can have. Where could I be? Prepositioning resource is in order to make the most accessible to the people that I’m trying to serve. A really simple example. Would be organizations who are looking to build some sort of infrastructure, whether it’s a well or a latrine or a school or a hospital, where the people that need those services are they already being served by existing infrastructure? Or is there some opportunity or need to build some new infrastructure in a place that will reach a population of people that didn’t have access before? So then, what do we need to have so we can start to visualize our data the way, the way you’re encouraging, really, the it it blows down Teo having some element of location that you’re capturing when you’re collecting data on an organizations work, and that could be very precise addresses or coordinate locations where it’s easy to get that kind of information or where it’s being tracked at that level. But it could be just as easily you know, a city state country combination that allows us to Ah, you know, record information at a county level at a state level at a country level, depending what level you’re trying to map. Exactly. So what? The questions are you tryingto task and answer. So knowing that everybody’s in the same county, if you’re in that county and try them out, that county is not gonna be helpful. Exactly is right here in these streets. But what if you’re in a state and and you’re trying to map a state, then county alone could be could be valuable. Exactly. If your foundation trying to decide. Like where the places across the country across the world where our resource is, would have the biggest impact, right? You don’t need to map things down to the address level. You’re not targeting households. You’re targeting broader geography, Sze, where you want to focus your efforts. If you are a community level non-profit you wantto deodorant on its street addresses blocks that you want to focus on this segment of a trail, this segment of a stream, whatever the focus of your work, maybe you want the data that you’re working with to be very granular. Okay, sure. So you need that you need some level of geographic data. Um and then all right, so let’s assume that we have mailing address and we’re a state organization and we want to want to see where our density of service beneficiaries are on. We have there. We have their street address because we are social workers occasionally make home visits etcetera throughout the state. What we do next. So there’s Ah, a number of different processes. But effectively, the process that one would use is called geo coating, where your matching those addresses with a database of addresses and streets. Teo actually put points on the map that are associated with the addresses that may exist in your spreadsheet or your database. So we need this interim step. You can’t go just from the street address to Teo to a mapping tool. That’s what geo coding is, how you go from an address to dahna map. Okay, that’s the process of matching the address with the actual physical location. Okay, and you’ve got some resource is tools. Some geo coding tools that we’re going to talk about exactly are tools that help people do that. There’s a number of them out there that support that work. So it is. It is simple is exporting from your CR m into one of these geo coding tools. If you’ve got to see us via a spreadsheet of data, that has been I know CSB come separated values. Even I know that one. Sorry. Don’t put me in jail. Yeah, if you have a spreadsheet with data that has addresses essentially just uploaded into this geo coding tool, you run the geo coding process and you end up with a shape file, which is Ah, Geospatial data file format that allows you to put data onto a map. Okay, that sounds Aah! That sounds really It’s really straightforward. It’s very common. There’s a number of different tools out there and allow you to do it. But that’s first step, right? Is just getting your data into a form or can actually be visualized in a map in, you know, any number of technologies. Um, And then once you have that, then it’s a matter of what are the other kinds of data that I want Teo Layer with my my information that gives it context. What’s the appropriate basement that I want to use my looking at. Do I want to see? Imagery? Is the backdrop for my data to get context on. What is the landscape that we’re looking at? Do I want a kind of more of a neighborhood street map that gives me a feel of what’s the neighborhood like and what the transit routes? There’s many different kinds of base maps. There’s also lots of other kinds of data and information. Census data, a CS American Community survey data, various kinds of socioeconomic indicators that would give context. Tio, What’s the level of population in a given area? How much income do they have? What are the kind of needs that they might have with regards education, health access, etcetera? And there’s lots of data out there on things even around. Where do people spend their money, right? Are they donated ng to charities and high numbers in this area versus that area? Are they spending time volunteering with different organizations more so in this area than another area? So all of that gives context. Teo your own organization with data, the crowd approves again. Time for our last break text to give you get there. Five party male, Many course by texting NPR to four four, four nine nine nine. That’s the five part course that is going to dispel myths around mobile giving. It does not have to be low dollar. You don’t have to go through phone companies. It’s not expensive to get started. It’s all in the five part email. Many course text. NPR November Papa Romeo to four, four, four, nine nine nine. And we’ve got lots more time now for map your data with Salim Sawara. So So I’m now starting to take even greater shape. I mean, I’m imagining that these other data overlays will impact thie. The way you’re visualize the data so circles or, you know, ever shape maybe large or small colored. They might be different. Different shapes were means everything. So you can bring all these different layers into one one one dimensional map. And a lot of the data is popping out just as you’re looking at different points on the map. Exactly. Okay, okay. Overlaying different kinds of data gives you an understanding of how things relate in a way that you really could never get. If you’re looking at it in a spreadsheet or a report or some sort of narrative form, much richer. Sure. Okay, let’s spend some time talking about the different geo coding tools. So So where do we start? What you have? Recommendations, I hope specific tools and resource is Yeah, I mean, there’s there’s geo coating is one of the kinds of things that people do with JS. There’s tools that allow you to do that in a Web environment. Their desktop mapping tools that support geo coding butt joke owning is one of the one of the processes are analytical. Process is that someone would do with G s. Okay, well, let’s start with Suppose you wanted to do a desktop. You’re gonna keep this simple initially and you want you want it for yourself in your office. You have some tools you can recommend. Yeah. I mean, for the tools that ezri offers. We have a non-profit program where we make our technology available for free to non-profits. There’s small administrative fees and effectively with with every technology. Arc js isra I said s story. It’s OK. You made it sound like I’m a kayman institute or something. All right? And ah, we eso inter desktop software. There’s Ah, there’s Ah, a couple of different utilities or tools that would allow somebody to basically point a geo coding tool at their data set, and it would return a bunch of dots on a map. The same thing could be done in a Web tool that we have called our joyous online, where somebody would basically upload their spreadsheet. The geo coding process would be run against it and same output. You’d end up with a bunch of dots on a map or whatever your data, maybe. Okay, um, are there others you can recommend? Ah. Besides, every tool there’s, there’s lots of other energy A cutting things out there. Google Maps does geo coding. I think open street map has a G o coder. There’s lots of different options out there. I’m not as familiar with others as I am with ones that we try to be Galateri. Yeah, sure. No problem shouting out the every day, every tools, though. That’s fine. Okay, Um all right. That’s a That’s a great, you know, explanation of the process way. Have a lot of time left with another ten minutes or so. Yeah, And what else? What else is in this topic well on geo cutting really is is the tip of the iceberg, right? It’s how you get started and getting your data onto map. Well, where it really gets interesting is toe whatyou were highlighting a minute ago, right where you start overlaying different kinds of information that give context to your data, understanding the socioeconomic profile of neighborhood kids, where you may be working, or where your volunteers are where your donors are. One of the big things that we’re talking to a lot of people about this week or that they’re interested in, is how do I find more people like the donors that we’re working with today? Or how do I find more volunteers like the ones that were working with? All right, um, and this is a very similar thing to what businesses do with location information right tto find customers. But in the non-profits world, it may be a Organizations have a database with their donors or their volunteers. They put those onto a map. They’re able to identify what air the demographic characteristics of those individuals based on their location. And then it’s really easy to go and ask questions like, where are other places where we find the kinds of people that I’m wanting to engage rating people. Exactly. So that’s one of the big things that we see non-profits doing with our technology, whether that’s defined more donors or volunteers or more of the beneficiary population that they’re trying to support in some way. Now, commercial sites are doing this cos retailers exactly its banks, health care, how Starbucks decides where it’s going to put its next store. We’re named the business. It’s what I can imagine. I can imagine the rich data they must have about location of the what, what, what makes a story successful? Exactly, and and the kinds of characteristics of people that they find to be their best customers. Yeah, it’s effectively the same sort of question for a non-profit. You’re just trying to find donors or members or volunteers or beneficiaries, as opposed to customers. Come and yeah, it’s the same sort of thing. Also, that big logistics companies, ups, FedEx and others air using tio figure out how to get their packages. Two people in the most effective way on. That’s another. That’s interest of how non-profits could use Julius. All right, say a little more about what? Ah, package delivery service ups is how it’s using. So you mean like planning their daily planning the route for an individual truck each day? This is all this is all geo GS. This’s a GS problem, right? There’s in the numbers. All site won’t be exactly accurate. But you know, UPS has millions of packages that they need to deliver each day. They have tens of thousands of vehicles and drivers that are doing that work. They’ve got hundreds of thousands of locations that they’re delivering to and many different, you know, kind of factors that would affect which trucks and drivers they assigning jobs, too. GPS helps them tio analyze that problem. Ah, optimize the distribution of deliveries across that network of vehicles and drivers and get things to the places that they’re trying to go as quickly and efficiently and effectively as possible. There’s, you know, non-profit organizations who are running big logistics operations is well. We do a lot of work with U. N World Food Program, who faces many of these same pro problems trying to identify you know how to get re sources to the places that are needed as effectively and efficiently as possible. Where do you preposition resource is so that they’re accessible to people when they need them. But you could have many similar problems that smaller scales for non-profits who need Teo, you know, get volunteers to all of the places in their community that are needed to help with the trash pick up day or whatever the whatever the issue of the concern. Maybe so a lot of the data that you might be might be mapping is not data that you have that you have. So now we’re going beyond but might be data on economic socioeconomic status of a community, a block, a town might be racial distribution, shin education profiles, health care, healthcare outcomes. Absolutely. All right, so you know a lot of external data. So you then you map what? You’re what? You’re where your services are to where they’re needed exactly. And we take advantage of the open data movement that’s taking place around us, right? There’s lots of data that’s available from government at a national level, a state level, a county level. We invest quite a bit as a company and trying to make that open data accessible and usable for people so that they don’t have to do all the work of kind of bringing data together and putting it into, ah, a form that can be used in a GS. But, um, yeah, Isra and many of the different partners that we worked with in the non-profit space and government are making data services available that people congrats and mash up into, you know, Web maps with their own data and see, you know, beyond themselves. What is the landscape that they’re working in, the people, they’re trying to serve all of those things. But what’s your opinion of the Facebook data? We’re digressing now. Data data collection policies not sharing with non-profits, for instance, donordigital. When someone makes a gift on Facebook, you know they won’t reveal the data. I’m not sure I’m really even familiar that so if somebody’s making donations through face-to-face xero non-profit, you can’t get the you can’t get contact information. You can’t get the person’s email. I’m not sure they give. They might give Now. I figure they must give name, but non-profits have a have a big information void there. It’s It’s very, very hard for them to acknowledge that gift, so I’m not even sure that I know they don’t give email. I’m not even sure if they give name, and that’s hardly unique. But yes, that’s a problem. Yeah, it’s an interesting question. I’m not. I wasn’t really aware of that. But it’s ah. You know, I guess I could imagine it’s a bit of Ah, Catch twenty two situation, right? Terms of the privacy concerns and things that they must be facing, but at the same time, providing a service in a way that really is is valuable to non-profits. Yeah, I don’t know. It’s a challenging situation. I’m not sure not sure I have a clear opinion. Okay, let’s go a little broader than around the social media platforms. And not just not just Facebook, but and and, uh, whether they share data, you know, you’re you’re very much an open data. Uh, company way sport. Open data will benefit from open data. So the social platforms that don’t make aggregated data available they holding his proprietary? Yeah, that’s you know, I think that’s in in many ways, that’s, ah, business model that is somewhat sort of foreign or separate from the work that we do our roles. We built technology. We work with government customers who are working with sensitive data healthcare organizations who have private information that they can’t share, and they need technology that allows them to work in a secure, more closed environment. Many of our customers want to be ableto leverage, open data that’s coming from other organizations or make their own data available to others. Martek, Nala ji supports that. The view that we take the approach we take his toe is to provide a platform that allows people to make their data available in the way that they want to and that makes sense for them. Um, we don’t take any right or ownership or license of data that people put in our platform or using our platform were simply providing technology that allows them to use their data in the way that they want to. OK, Salim, we have about another a minute left or so. So how would you liketo wrap this up? Encourage people? Yeah, I guess the I appreciate the opportunity to chat with you and your audience, and I just would say that you know, there’s a lot that changed with mapping and GS in the last you know, five years. It’s really easy to get started. It’s accessible to anyone. It doesn’t take a master’s degree or a phD to be able to get started using JS and spatial analysis. And there’s a lot of opportunity and value for non-profits to start doing simple things, like putting their date on a map, overlaying it with other kinds of information and getting a better understanding of where they’re working, who they’re working with, where the opportunities for them to have a bigger impact. So many questions could be answered that that they’re having difficulty with now. Yeah, all right. He’s Salim’s AWA manager at Isra. Don’t say it s Terry. It’s spelled S r I. It’s Ezri. Um All right, Selene, thank you very much. Thanks so much stunning. Real pleasure. Thank you for being with our coverage of nineteen. Ninety Si non-profit Technology Conference This interview brought to you by our partners at ActBlue free fund-raising tools Teo, help non-profits make an impact. Thanks for being with us next week. Mohr goodness from the non-profit Technology Conference. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on Tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits. Data driven and technology enabled. Twenty dahna slash pursuing capital P Bye weinger CPS Guiding you beyond the numbers ready cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made easy Text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine. Ah, creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff, Sam Leave Luis is the line producer. Thie shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scots Diner, Brooklyn’s. That’s right, Scotty. You certainly are you with me next week for non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent Go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative network? Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in sometime potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time And listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates. Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Thie Best designs for your life Start at home. I’m David here. Gartner interior designer and host of At Home Listen, Live Tuesday nights at eight p. M. 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Nonprofit Radio for May 10, 2019: Google Ad Grants & The 2019 Digital Outlook Report

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Michael Rasko, Jason King & Michelle Hurtado: Google Ad Grants
Our 19NTC panel—including the head of Google Ad Grants—will improve the quality of your Google Ads campaigns and get your website, Google Analytics and Google Ads working together. They share lots of valuable resources. They are Michael Rasko from Rasko Digital Marketing; Jason King, certified Ad Grants professional; and, Michelle Hurtado from Google.




Elena Francis, Charly Jarrett & Jennifer Jones Ingram: The 2019 Digital Outlook Report
This 19NTC panel, Elena Francis, Charly Jarrett and Jennifer Jones Ingram, helps you get better at P2P, Facebook, team cross-training and adapting tech to your mission. Elena and Charly are with hjc and Jennifer is at Care2.





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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent of your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I grow is Anthill asthma. If I saw that you missed today’s show, Google advance our nineteen ninety seats channel, including the head of Google. Add grants will improve the quality of your Google ads campaigns and get your website Google Analytics and Google ads working together. The share lots of valuable resource is they are Michael Rasco from Rasco Digital Marketing. Jason King certified Add grantspace, Sessional and Michelle, Her Tato from Google and the twenty nineteen Digital Outlook Report This nineteen ninety seats Channel. Eleanor Francis, Charlie Jarrett and Jennifer Jones. Ingram helps you get better at peer-to-peer Facebook team cross training and adapting text tech to your mission. Elena and Charlie are with H J. C and Jennifer. Is that care, too? On Tony State to nuclear missiles? We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuing by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers witness cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to four four, four nine, nine nine. Here is Google Add grants. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen. Ninety c. You know where we are? You know what this is? It’s the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. We’re in Portland, Oregon, at the Convention Center. All our nineteen ninety seon reviews are brought to you by our partners that act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Our panel now is Michael Rasco, Jason King and Michelle hyre latto. Michael is seated next to me. He’s the owner of nasco Digital Marketing. Jason King is Google at grants certified professional. And he works under Jason King for Jason King with Jason King and Michelle Heart. Otto is the head of Google at grants at Google. It sounds like there is no higher authority on Google at grants. Deshele mamatoto in the world got a brilliant Okay, Absolutely. All right, well, we got the got the senior people here. All right, Beat. My voice is cracked. Um, there are some new policies new Google at grant policies. Is that right? That, uh, non-profit need to comply with? I was gonna start with you, Michelle. This’s our policies not nothing this year, but we are still, you know, helping the industry get used. Tio r changes. We have noticed historically that a lot of folks use Google I grants to get exposure. But there’s so much more to digital ads, it’s about effectiveness in terms of your goals. So we’ve put out a series of policies last year that will actually guide all of our non-profits and know what to do on a regular basis in their account to remain more proactive and get better results on DH, we’re gonna help them to comply with Yeah, yeah. We’ve been on a road show for the last year and here we are still today. So glad to be able to meet with more and more of our number on your road show has culminated Brought you to this day non-profit radio. Everyone does not have this privilege today way about thirty people know. Well, maybe twenty five thirty people have this privilege today and we’re grateful to be among some. I could tell Michael, think back and see your the enthusiasm you says with great sarcasm. Okay, um, let’s just make sure that everybody there’s a baseline among all listeners. Some people may not know. Michael. I’m Jason. Why don’t you explain what Google at grants is a two high level. So everybody’s on the same page about what the offer is. Okay. Oh, non-profits can get free in-kind donation of advertising up to the value of ten thousand dollars per month so they can promote their websites, their services, their offerings on information when people searching Google for information. Um okay, yeah, in some. I mean, we’ve offered nine billion dollars over the last sixteen years. Google had. This is the first film topic program that will ever offered its directly aligned with our mission. It Google to organize the world’s information. Non-profits have a ton of valuable information to get out there. You are well on the founding team of this sixteen years ago, Tio Michael, what would you like to add to our to our overview as we as we get started? Yeah, I’d like to add to what Jason said is is the way this tool really works is it gets people to your website when they’re searching something relevant to what you do, even if they’ve never heard of you. Because the way Google ads, works eyes based on a keyword system where you bid on terms you want to rank form. And if you’re part of this program, it could put you up much higher on the Google search results, and you’re non-profit could get more Web traffic on DH. As Michele was saying, You know, it doesn’t end at Web traffic. It’s also about what they do when they get to your website. So it’s super valuable to non-profits. Okay, um, let’s dive intothe policies that non-profits need to be onboard, resolutely compliant with so that they are participating properly. And I don’t know what happens if, if you don’t, you get your ad grants. Damn campaign deactivated. Think always the optimistic it could come back. And I know in fact, you’re here at NTC helping people on a account by account basis like what happened right? You’re okay. There’s bloody hell. There’s plenty of help available as well. So if somebody does get their account suspended, they just have to phone up. Google has support. There’s a very useful advertisers forum they can use on. There’s plenty of eyes to help them get back into compliance, get their accounts working better than before. Okay. I didn’t mean to scare everybody away, Shin, but away from the program. But, uh, but we do need to deal with the fact that there are some things you gotta comply with. So Michael wanted Teo kick us off. What? Trump would top problem area or two. Do you see among among non-profits And how can we help him? Yeah, I can answer that. But I also think that might be better for Michelle because Michelle has more information about from working at Google. What? What The suspensions are I have clients. Yeah, I’ve clients. Lam. Oftentimes it’s It’s ah quality score, Click through rate and incorrect Geo. Targeting are some of the ones that I see when non-profits come to me with an account that’s been suspended and I help them get reactivated. Okay, You want a liberal is just typically, you know, digital marketing is very different than traditional marketing. It is super responsive. It is super relevant. What someone searching for and consumers these days are more and more demanding, You know, like because of the internet coming along and super computers in our pockets I mean, people expect very relevant results instantly and very personalized what they what they want. So we’ve seen non-profits. You generally taking advantage of the opportunity to say Okay, well, of course I want to show up. I have a very powerful mission that I want to get across, and they put out a starter campaign, if you will. And it’s just different because digital requires an ongoing maintenance. Teo improve it overtime. And that’s that’s kind of the key elements of the policies is that we’re telling you. OK, overtime. You have to keep checking on latto rate and maintain your account. You have to have fresh content in your Web site. You know, you should make sure that your that your quality is high enough because if you don’t, if you don’t have good quality. Google’s ranking system is very much based on the user’s votes, essentially as clicks on Google dot coms results. And so if you get off to a bad start with low quality, it’s really hard to make to work your way back up. So we just want to make sure the non-profits hoo hoo join us in our program and all are welcome as soon as long. They’re just they need to be a little more prepared up front. So you’re kind of put out like the’s air. The expectations of front minimum viable. Okay, okay, let’s let’s talk about some more of them on Michael mentioned Joe, look atyou, Say incorrect Geo location. Yeah, so the something’s out of date like, well, location wise. It’s about setting the locations. You target your advertisements for two places that are relevant to your organization because a lot of organizations they are too broad on DH. There is a requirement by Google that you only focus on people that are relevant to your organization. Okay, it’s time for a break. Pursuant. The art of First Impressions had a combined strategy, analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. The e book is shorter than the title that’s there. Ah, e book on donor acquisition, of course. And how to make a smashing first impression on your potential donors. It’s at Tony dahna slash pursuant capital P for please to get to that listener landing page. Now back to Google ad grants. You just Yeah, relevancy is kind of the heart of it, apart from only showing hands that are relevant to the right locations is about targeting the right audience generally with the right key words, and then showing them the right page on the website, keeping everything relative to the needs of the person who expressed a need for information in the first place when they searched on Google. You’re trying to get the most relevant information to the person with the most precise need for your offering on one of the problems I see is that often they convey ear off their mission of it on. They need to stay focused on their offering when their advertising Okay, uh, let’s let’s shift a little bit on DH. Suppose we don’t yet have a have not yet taken advantage of Google at grounds Where where do we go? Toe start our campaign first, you’d have to Google us, Teo, get him set a Google addresses the program, and then we would guide you through a very lengthy campaign set up guide that would tell you how to walk through the jungle. Adds interface. Is this something that non-profit could do without experts like Michael and Jason? It certainly is. I mean, we walk you through it, but But we do highly recommend experts in this field. There’s a very Jason said There’s a way Maybe we should walk through some of that about the resource is that are available, you know when? OK, if we’re gonna get started on a campaign and help you know what, What’s available? So, for example, thiss last these this past year and a half or so we’ve been Certainly we’ve been doing a lot of events speaking and doing workshops, like when we hear it at ten. You know, that’s always a debate, like we wanna have, like, a really inspiring message. But we also want to have a kind of workshop, you know, help you learn on the ground like we’re here right here with you. And we’ve got our team here today in orderto actually optimize your accounts way. Also have a YouTube channel that has a ton of content on how to do this or that, or just have an overview. We also, you know, policy overview video as well. But it just like if you if you’re going to start, I recommend that you go to our YouTube channel and learn for like, one hour just watching overviewing of how it has set up an account. Um, we also have a If you want to get started, you have to set it up on your own. But then if you if you can’t work with a professional at this time, we also have a program where we partner with universities who are have students engaged in marketing lessons like they’re learning digital marketing and they need a field study. So we are offer you a way. Tio set up a match with a student team for four to six weeks or so they’LL walk through your goals and make sure they understand your organization. Put out a couple campaigns and then optimize it for you over the course of four to six weeks. And hopefully you’ll be in a whole lot better shape like that. Okay, there’s a bunch of resource option. Okay, Four. So, um all right, so now we’ve we’ve started our initial campaign. Andi, I understand the lesson that you need to keep it up to date current. It’s got a fresh content on your side. Uh, on relevant. How can we wait? We get to the next level, so we want a little higher quality. Jason, can you help us get from the first six months of our campaign? Teo now, we don’t know. Is it possible to spend ten thousand dollars a month in the beginning? Yeah, maybe. Maybe you’re being a little frivolous if you give your starting. If you’re out of the gate in ten thousand, you’re probably doing something wrong. I’m guessing it should be. Really Well, it shouldn’t really be the main focus of what you’re attempting to do. I mean, you mean spend all the money? Yeah. Spend it. Spent. All the money is not the objective. Because you spend all of the money when ineffective at present, completely worthless campaign. Sure, thie objectives should be instead to set up what they call goals and conversion tracking. So you’re tracking what people actually do. The actions they take on the website and for this to work, the website has to be set up. So technically well, they have somebody has to be a to go toe page on the website. This useful to them and taken action like filling in a contact for me, and that needs to be trackable on the website. So in order to get Google. That’s a kind of working. Well, you really need the website to function. You need gogo athletics. I presume you could do. Yeah, you do this tribunal. I think that’s the most efficient way to have the two working together now. Absolutely. Answer these. Get measure these things that you’re talking about. Yeah. You need the website, the contact management system, money working with analytics. Also working with Google ads. But also, you need to have, in your own mind quite well defined. Idea of what your objectives are. What you want people to do on DH. Then focus on that and not spend. Yeah, ofcourse. You’re focused on your call to action. I was just asking isat possible. Sure. It’s possible to squander a lot of money, but not not. Not wise. Okay. So, Michael, then s o we’re after are six months now. We’ve got in place what Michelle and Jason have explained. What’s your advice for getting to the next level? Want to be a little more sophisticated? Yeah, honestly, my advice is almost the exact same as Jason’s is. It’s about conversion. So when you want to take it to the next level, like I said it’s a great way to get people to your site because it’s responsive to search term. So it’LL put you towards the top of Google search results if you’re doing hyre all the things correctly in your account. But once they get to your website, you’ve got to really take a close look at what they do, what they do and what versus what you want them to do. Yeah, absolutely. So So maybe in the second in the second six months, maybe have some different goals? Yeah, that might be it might be some of the same goals with a hyre measure, or you might have different goals. Maybe initially, it was just getting someone to feed O. R. Look, a data visualization of the impact that you’re making in your local in your state. And now we’re in. In our second six months, we want to start recruiting volunteers. So first we just want exposure. Now we want some volunteers. I actually redesigned that. I’d say you should go on volunteers from the get go, and then after six months, based on what you originally planned, you should look at it and say what would well what went wrong. And when you look, look at what went well, try to bolster that. When you look at what went wrong. Try to understand why it went wrong in a limerick and eliminate it. But you should have, you know, pretty ambitious goals from the get go. But also, you know, restrained expectations because it’s an ongoing learning process of how this works. Okay, so that’s that’s why I’m not a CEO of a non-profit. Lackluster, lackluster goals had best not modest, lackluster, modest is too polite, lackluster goals. So initially. All right, so we want volunteers in the first six months. What are some of the things that you see? Well, we did. Maybe Maybe this may be the same answer, but some of the things that are going wrong, what’s going right? What are some of the things that you see going wrong? What I see going wrong? A lot is just too broad. In our session yesterday, we talked a lot about how to focus things towards your audience and when you add keywords into your account and this might get a little more technical for listeners who are just starting. But we’LL make you define your terms. Don’t weigh, have jargon Jail on non-profit radio charge in jail on there’s plenty of room. There are plenty of cells. This’s not what this is. It’s minimum security, but there’s a lot of capacity. Eso. One thing that often happens is when you type a keyword by default, it’s broad match. And when you have a broad match keyword that you’re bidding on, you could get a lot of impressions for things on ly loosely related to what you do and you want, like run. Yeah, I suppose. I suppose I’m now we’re switching goals and I’m tryingto recruit participants for a five K run walk. And I bet on the word run that might be a mistake. That would be a mistake. It’s also mistake because there’s another compliance rules where you can’t have a key word. That’s a single word. Key word. Oh my God, kruckel participate in this program. So So providing. Of course, I’m just kidding. I’ll provide you the example you in yesterday’s monisha, which is less glasses for sale glasses. Khun B. A lot of different things. So if you’re selling eyeglasses, you need to be very specific that they’re eyeglasses? Because if you just throw out the term glasses for sale, your martinis martignetti fashion glasses. Exactly. And those people will get impressions and shower doors. Stop, Stop! No, no. You guys really going? Yeah, you get it shows you get it. You can keep going. And so often times, you know what I see is ways to improve is being more specific. OK, OK, So for those of you who are out there already with an account, one of the biggest tips we would ask is check your monthly search terms report monthly. You know, just actually, that’s the difference of telling you where your ads actually showed up. For what did people type into google dot com And you’LL get a lot of insight there about things that you want to add to your key wordless and also to take away what’s caldnear give key words. It’s another piece of jargon. Um, Michelle, you’re probably you’re thinking person to ask. I was at a pan. I was in a interviewing a panel yesterday and someone said this was a digression. Probably caused by me. Have trouble focusing another reason. Another CEO of anything. I have to work for myself. These are when you when you’ve just met the good, glad grants you’re getting was residual something. You’re getting residual something’s or something. Eso is going back to Jason’s point about tracking. You know, we we can understand if you’ve set it up. What happens after someone clicks on to your site? You know, you want to make sure that they don’t like fifty percent of people just kind of bounce right off of the the site. Unfortunately, I remember I’m sorry that I was a little more context question. No, no, it was The suggestion was that it may be better for you to spend money even even if you still haven’t exhausted your ten thousand dollars free grant because it get it, get it different kind of. You might. It might be worth spending a hundred dollars if you see something Doing well for free, Get a different kind of a different kind of ranking or so. Yeah, we’re at duitz earlier was you. You’LL actually have more conversions, and we can track, but that’s a different story. Okay, this we’re talking about makes good sense. You don’t know what I’m talking about. No, no. You do actually, cause a lot of people actually make this mistake, assuming that you can’t have a paid account when you have a cool at Gran’s account, you Ken and I would wrap So you realize it because you’LL get a whole lot more volume. Hey, glad Grant’s offers. Even the positions like that are after the paying advertising messages called Residual Remnants Way. So we offer non-profits all of the space that’s available after paying advertisers. So sometimes for really competitive queries, there is no space left. But that being said, I would just say use at grants for figuring out what works for you and then when something works for you, then you could be really sure not take too many risks with opening up a paid account and doing really well there. Okay, also, there’s a display. If you wanted me to cover, just play video. Jason. Yeah, I was just going to have one point first. If you don’t mind that, I’ve I’ve known some non-profits. I think most non-profits Khun benefit from an ad grand for certain, but there are occasionally some particularly something say, like a CD. If I there’s some financial organization, CDF I, Charlie Delta Foxtrot. Indio. What? Do I put a quarter in the jug and swear books? No, no. It’s much more punitive than that. Ho ho, but okay. Their community development, financial institutions there that there was some types of non-profits where they are in competition, not just with other non-profits for advertising, but also we have, say, businesses. And really, they can add grantmaker not perform for them. And it is good to run that to do the grand as an experiment. But if it doesn’t work, and that’s because of the level of competition out there and then the paid account might be better for them. Okay. And Michelle, what were you asking matter-ness with that? We offer search ads. But there’s also video ads, for example, an image ads that are also really useful for getting for raising awareness for non-profits. Those are only for paid accounts. Yeah, okay. Okay. I mean, there’s only so far you could go on for your gun. It’s gotta be limits this thing a thousand dollars. Enough is all right, Michael, we have heard from you for a while. What you want? What you want to add here that we haven’t talked about yet. You did? Seventy five. You did seventy five minutes and way. We’ve only been at this for twenty minutes and forty three cents. I know. It seems like counting down there, like eighteen hours between twenty minutes. I could talk all day about this stuff. Just, you know, thinking that long. If you’re just looking for, like, what I wantto say that hasn’t been said yet is get started Something relevant, you know, once. One thing. One thing I hear a lot from non-profits is that they they heard about this, you know, years ago. And they haven’t gotten started yet. And I think, you know, the hardest part is getting started. Like like Michelle said, there are some things you need to learn before you apply, but this money is on in-kind amount and its use it or lose it. So the earlier you get started the better. Because if you dragged your feet for a few years, you’ve missed out on all that money you could have gotten It doesn’t get, um, loaded into your account later. Okay, That would be an ideal place to stop, But we have more time. I have a show on way. Have time with their policies around this show way Don’t stop twenty two minutes because I got two half hour segment show. So we’re gonna do We got too few more minutes. So what have we not have covered? I have Ah, are be proactive. Section be proactive. Okay, Jason, you got something there, Michelle? You want to start? Michelle just mentioned dynamic search ads. This is money. I find one of the simplest techniques to actually set up in a good Glamoc count. Eats Guns are very effective when you first start your campaigns because it fills in all the gaps in your advertising that enables Google to decide to show glassed inside to show an add even if you haven’t created one for that specific purpose yourself. So it’s kind of like you just a little more about this. Flush this out for us? Yeah. I don’t get it. It kind of automated is the normal. You right in there. Did you choose some keywords us and takes for that ad on? If people search for words similar to that, then your ads get shown that adds has shown up with the dark. Yeah, but with Dynamic sir chance. It works a little differently, even if you I haven’t chosen he worse and you haven’t got an ad for this topic already. Google might, based on what it knows about your website and all the pages on it might just decide to show an ad, and it writes most of the ant text for you. It’s kind of you have to You have to leave it to a certain amount of trust that you will write a good ad for some time. It does. It’s a very effective technique when you first start advertising, but it’s worth a try on most accounts. So it’s dynamic surgeons, and that’s something you select in your throughout the process. In the process of creating, you’re you’re absolutely When when you’ve created a campaign you can create in and prove like, Yeah, you know, you could write an ad group within that campaign and you make the ad group dynamic search. Okay, okay. If you and your trusting Googled radio appropriate at and it’s so simple to do, it’s a quick and easy win it on, and it could end up bringing a lot more visitors to your website that you boys would never go. Okay, But it’s not entirely trust either, because we provide tons of data back to you in the interface every time that we run that. And so you’LL be able to see exactly what what it’s working for you, what’s not. And that’s kind of the whole point, Tio. What brings us back full circle is that that’s the beauty of digital, as is that you get so much more information than putting out a billboard or something, you actually get it, and then you have to act on it to make it better. Yeah, I’ve had a couple of channels where they’ve lamented the social sites that don’t share data, including Facebook, when donation has made through Facebook on the data that the non-profit does not get back on. Actually, the recommendation was used Facebook to drive people to your own site and then and then have a streamlined process for making a donation there. Where you where you can ask the info that you need on Not yeah, not not be without it from your donor data, we’ve We’ve got a glance with good lads. I think you get more data than you could even handle. Sometimes there are so many more columns of metrics you can add to your screen. People unaware ofthe. There’s an immense amount of data you can get from it. I was saying to Michelle that one of my top tips for people is by the biggest widest monitor you can possibly afford if were to have two next to side by side to widescreen thirty two inch monitors aside, if you’re doing this stuff, but you raise a very good point and we have we have a couple minutes left. Uh, so what? You touched on this? Yes, yesterday just on this earlier. Uh, but what? What are the key member there? Maybe three. Four key top metrics that you should be paying attention to in your first six months in your first year. Maybe they’re the same ones you ticked off earlier, but I’d like to hear them again. Shoretz human-centered Check. What should we be looking at? Level Most important. Should we each name one or shall I do for you? Do two. I’LL do two So I just chose that because you said one or force I signed to one or two out of three. Yeah, the two is Click through rate and quality score, and that was the quality score. So there’s a quality score. The quality score is a number from one to ten. That is Google’s estimation of how relevant your key word is to the rest of your content. Specifically, your advertisement again, your landing base that you send them. Let’s make sure everybody knows what click through rate is. Click through basics to you, but it’s so good through rate is a percentage value of clicks divided by impression. So impressions is a viewing. Seeing viewing of your ads because in action taken so for recovery. If you get five clicks for every hundred times it’s seen, your click through rate is five percent precisely, Jason, you got one or two top metrics that Michael did not previously mentioned. Well, I’m actually going to repeat the one he did mention. I have not to do that. That’s why I’m doing it. Their policies are not proper radio way. I trust you to keep me clear. The Google ads Grant’s policies can’t adhere to the simple non-profit radio balls. Go ahead, anarchist. Okay, on the quality of school that Michael mentioned is broken down into the landing page experience and the ad relevance. Now, I think these two extremely useful because if you find that some of your ass and your gear is not working, you can look at these and you might find that your ad relevance is really high. In which case you’re writing a good ad, Yes, but you might find the landing page. Experience is really low, and that’s a clear to you that saying your ads agree your website is rubbish on the landing page that you’re providing people is not okay or vice versa. I find it useful for just diagnosing what the issue is. Vice versa. Right? Okay, Michelle, you I’ll give you my top. You’re the you’re the head of grants. Give one metric and then I’ll give you the wrap up. Okay. Conversions means the number of goals that you accomplished through your ads as a result of someone clicking in your ads. How many goals did your they reach on your website that you wanted them to do in the first place? Optimized for that? Tell your boards this is how much we’re getting through our website. It’s not about just website visibility if they bounce right away or if they don’t taken action that you want them. Tio Okay. Why did you leave us into the head of Google at grantspace You’LL leave us with inspiration. Inspirational ten seconds. What I see from our Cantonese is that there is so much passion and there’s so much more opportunity and digital ads to go after it. It’s just it takes a little extra investment of time and I know that it’s social tough in our space, but literally just a couple hours a month and you’LL be you’LL be flying with grams Okay, I just I just gave just gave you a terrific Lee Valuable. Uh, twenty eight minutes and thirty seconds of Google at grand time. They are Michael Rasco. He’s the owner of Rasco Digital Marketing. He’s also on the board of the Multnomah County Library. Basically right here, right here in Portland. We Multnomah County and Jason King is glad Grant certified professional. You’LL find him under Jason King on deshele Hurtado is the head of Google at grants for Google and I thank each of you Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you You’re welcome. Thank you for your for being with us. You’re on our coverage of nineteen. Ninety si the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology conference. All our nineteen ninety seon reviews brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools for non-profits to make an impact. Thanks so much. We need to take a break. Wagner CPS is enough with the webinar. OK, we’ve heard that their accountants do you need one. You need help with your form. Nine ninety is the time to change audit firms. They’ve got a deep practice for non-profits and the expertise to grow it. You know, an insider there, the partner Yet hooch Tomb has been on the show twice. You give him a ring, you check them out. Give him a ring. Wagner cpas dot com Now time for Tony’s Take Two. My video this week is a tour of a Minuteman nuclear missile launch control center. I worked in one at Whiteman Air Force Base from nineteen eighty four to nineteen. Eighty nine, and it’s actually not even write to say I worked at one because the base had fifteen of them and I probably pulled alerts at twelve or so of the of the fifteen, all dispersed throughout the throughout western Missouri. Ah, And so when I was at the reunion that you heard me talk about previous couple weeks, of course, we got a tour of the launch control center and the one we were at I was at many, many times. This was one that I pulled probably a hundred alerts at and you’LL see what they looked like with their nineteen sixties computer rack technology. You see the launch keys? I narrate you through where the where the the codes are stored, the safe with the two lakhs, each one of us on Lee knows the combination toe one lakh red safe, tiny red safe. But there’s the launch keys or stored in there and the documents that decode messages that would direct us to launch stored in that little red safe. Um, you see the commander’s console, the deputy’s console. You could see the light panel ten columns of lights, one for each missile that we commanded. Because when you’re gonna launch control center, you’re controlling ten missiles. Um, you see it all you see, you know, the big fat blast door like I don’t know twenty four inches thick or something with the pins that are like eight inches thick, that retract into the door and extend out into the A foundation to keep us secure. You see it all see it all on the tour. You catch that tour on my video at tony martignetti dot com, and that is Tony. Take two. Now here’s the twenty nineteen Digital Outlook report. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. That’s the non-profit Technology Conference twenty nineteen. We’re at the convention Center in Portland, Oregon, and today is day one of our our coverage of the two and a half day conference. This interview, like all of ours at nineteen ntcdinosaur brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. See the swag on the desk. See the swag on my chest? Well, one more can we do with me now are Elena Francis. She is digital marketing account give at H J. C. In the middle is Charlie Jared. She’s non-profit digital consultant at H J. C. And we have Jennifer Jones Ingram, director of strategy and partnerships that care too welcome Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. And pleasure. Pleasure. Having your topic is navigating the unknown. The twenty nineteen digital outlook report. Let’s start down at the end. I like to start down the end. Jennifer, what’s, uh what’s the news about this? What’s newsworthy about this? And we have almost a half an hour together so you don’t pack it all in, but just thirty seconds. What’s what’s the headline in the lead? Well, I think the reason it’s called the navigating the unknown is one thing that we found out from doing the survey of over almost two hundred people was that there are a lot of things that non-profits still are not aware of what their budget should be. Should they asked for more budget? How much should they be spending on digital? How much should how many stash they have for that? So even some of the basic questions like what is your Facebook strategy for? How are you finding new donors and legion? A lot of non-profits, the number of people who said I don’t know I was kind of surprising to us, and but the good news is, is that we’ve come up with many solutions on how we think people couldn’t continue to learn, continue to grow and continue to make their digital programs even better. Thiss was a report done by by care to and by H J. C. Or in Stacey and ten, an intern. Okay, which is no longer the non-profit Technology Network. You know that, right? It’s just they’re only intend. Now, I don’t want you to say non-profit does. That’s no longer an acronym. Okay, It’s just an intense right, Like the entire day rally in Triple A and Okay, got it. Got it. So, Amy Sample Ward is, ah, regular contributor on the show. She’s on every month talking about social in tech. So that’s that’s how that’s how I know that of great. Uh, all right, so now you mentioned only you the two hundred non-profits were surveyed. That doesn’t sound to me like a cross section of non-profit community. How did you choose the two hundred? How do we know this is representative of the community? It actually is pretty cross representative of it. I mean, we’ve got people from over, I think was over seventy different countries responded predominantly from North America and Europe. But multiple people responded organizations with budgets the size of two hundred fifty thousand up to over fifty million. Ah, large staff, small staff. So even though it’s a smaller number of non-profits, we found that it actually was a really good cross section of all the different groups that are out there. So there’s something for everyone in it. Okay, Okay, Charlie, you say that there’s there’s a lot to be learned in just using some basic technology. Digital foot. So peer-to-peer Facebook. Google Advance. Where do you expert in any, any one of these? Or that you can speak to what the report tells us that any of those things or, I mean, I specialized in social, So okay, the amount of info that was available for non-profits to share with us from Facebook was actually really limited, and there’s kind of a I don’t want to call it conspiracy makers. Well, ah, Facebook is there doing it purposefully. They don’t want to share that data. They want to keep it insular. So their techniques that we want to talk about where it’s getting your donor’s off of Facebook away from engagement. That’s what Facebook wants will you want convergence and people go into website and getting more involved in your non-profit. So their techniques to do that Getting them away from Facebook onto your on, getting involved in your you’re non-profit. Okay, So what? What are some of those techniques s O we want actually try and stay away from their fund-raising tools? As much as we’re tempted to use them because they are so easy on accessible. We really want to try and have our websites more mobile friendly. So that’s super important. Teo, make sure that you’re you’re Was everyone on everyone on Facebook on there? I had a guest just within the past couple weeks or so said that we’re past the question. Should your sight be mobile optimized? Yeah, everything, especially around fund-raising needs to be mobile optimized. Yeah, OK, OK, so you want to see people organizations using Facebook more as a referral source to back to their site rather than keeping them on Facebook? Despite the easy fund-raising tools that air there? Exactly. Yeah. Don’t be drawn in. Yeah, so I’m based in Canada. So Canada, we just got those fund-raising tools as of November. So we’ve just had the start of it, where in the U. S. And Europe had them a lot longer. Eso but Canadian non-profits air still seeing the same amount of money come in and with all the data come in because they’ve had been forced into a really lucky corner kind of Teo be able Teo, make it work for them and it’s benefit of them more long term. So in some non-profits, sixty percent of new donors air coming in through Facebook and they’re getting all their data and they’re able to roll them into their welcome, Siri’s, whereas if you’re using the Facebook tools, you don’t get all that data and very optional, so you really have to be careful with it. You are still encouraging people to use it for peer-to-peer because that data isn’t as valuable when somebody’s donating to a friend, as opposed to maybe your organization, they’re not as invested in your organization, so peer-to-peer is still very valuable because the data isn’t as valuable, but it just really proves how valuable it is. How many times can I say that one sentence, er that is Facebook’s doing. It’s so incredibly, it’s so important that you try to afford that data for yourself because Facebook’s trying to steal it all from you. Alright, alright, you should say steals. You may go for you’re gonna call them thieves. It was called conspirators. Is Elena What’s what’s your what’s your activities in this? But what can you speak to on DH? So we deal with a variety of clients for obviously the non-profit world, and a lot of them, as we mentioned as well in the report, do not use the tools that they have effectively. All they’ve got to tools of the exact same purpose on different teams use the tools and they can’t aggregate the data together in a meaningful way from those two different tools on. The other thing that I find in my experience is reflected in the non-profit industry is that there’s a complete lack of transparency between departments that are working perhaps on similar campaigns on they would gain so much if they shared their expertise and their current campaigns with each other. A lot of organizations each department has their own sort of separate campaign calendar, and there’s a lack off a whole integrated one. That’s sort of like Mark Markham’s wide on when I speak to clients, and from what we learned in the report, it seems that people would prefer that there was shared visibility with one calendar, so you can see what the organization is producing any given time. So this is something that we really emphasizing the report initially, it doesn’t sound digital focus. When you talk about, you know, communicating and working with different departments better on the other thing, there’s well, that isn’t instantly. What would think off, perhaps for digital outlook report on the future is that we encourage people to use the right technology that suits them and seats. They’re supporters as well. Metoo really Steve a Steve into that. And I recommend things are already easy quick winds today that we’re surprised organizations on doing okay, we’re going to get through some quick winds. Ilsen has loved those first. Let me ask you, because I don’t want to forget. Where can welcome listeners get a copy of the Digital Outlook report? How do we get it so well? So Charlie’s holding it up. That’s eyes there you are well on their way, so outlook report dot com digital outlook report dot com Because not everybody’s on the video. The vast majority of our listeners are off our audiences. Listeners. Okay, it’s really small in the card anyone? A digital outlook report dot com All right, One of the first things you mentioned Eleanor was integration between tools. E-giving Give us an example. What? Which? Which platforms or tools you’re talking about? That you feel organizations aren’t integrating a CZ well as they could, so it was a really bizarre situation. I had a client that was using male chimp on eliminate for sending emails, and there was sending it seemed to me randomly they would choose which messaging service to use. And it seems like a no brainer to stick with illuminate because that’s built for non-profits. But they preferred using male chimp for smaller campaigns because they said it was easier and more user friendly. But it just seems strange that you have these two different lots of data stored in separate email service providers. History Very strange. Jennifer What? No, I was just saying that it’s strange that they had two different email service providers for one organization. What? Usually you choose one of the other and bloomin it is much more robust. Exactly. Khun Dio So I know male chimp might be easy, but I know it wouldn’t be coordinated. Communications. I would think that that’s always a concern of ours. Making sure everyone’s communicating the same way to the same people and keeping that consistent. Yeah. Compliance with oft out with the challenging as well. Yeah, I’m sure that that’s fascinating. Back and forth. Exact dahna. Alright, so? So we can live a lot of bad practice having having two of anything Absolutely duplicated. Right? All your your contacts duplicated in both both platforms. No point pick one. Yeah. Yeah, OK, You’re just asking for something to go wrong. That kind of something gets up, one one gets updated, the other one doesn’t weigh, do a lot of journey mapping with clients grayce See and feel that we speak Tio, we do a tech order on we find the different departments feel more comfortable using from technology even if they have the same name. Another thing as well that we’ve noticed is that because the non-profit world usually has quite a high staff turnover, new staff come in with new ideas or old staff, you know, take their ideas with them Tio wherever they go next. And that’s why you get multiple tools for the same application, and it just two metoo seems too ridiculous for an organisation is really a non-profit melon, also with care to weigh, help non-profits find new donors and supporters and way find that some of the digital platforms are a lot easier to work with and others, especially if you’re bringing in a lot of new donors. Sometimes they they have spot heist fan thresholds. They can accidentally turn a non-profit off, which is never a good thing. Yeah, so it’s from a legion point of view. It’s always good to have a single, highly functioning, multipurpose ilsen Charlie a little bit of a digression, but after that, there’s a J C stand for anything. What does this C stand for? Johnson. Consultant John Results. We’re going out to say that like it’s not like non-profit technology like, and we’re not supposed to say when I say it all the time. Non-profit technology never. Okay, um, let’s talk about some things quick. Fixes You brought up the idea of quick fixes, Elena, but Charlie hasn’t talked for a little while. Do you have any have any quick, quick fixes that can come out of the digital report? I mean, it’s amazing how many people are using Google at Grant. It’s OK, they’re still giving. I’m going to give you a chance. They’re still giving ten thousand dollars per month up to which is pretty generous. Yeah, yeah, ten thousand a month. There are for non-profits. Yeah, and it’s something. It’s kind of a no brainer at this point. You really, If you’re not, if you don’t exist on Google, you don’t exist. So you really it’s really easy to get into. You just have to go through the application process. I think a lot of non-profits really intimidated by it. But it’s a great for a well managed junior staffer to take it on on and just get it going. And then there’s many grants out there to actually help you learn how to use it on. There’s a whole online process. If you could just go on and all these three tools just learnt how Teo So it’s is it a steep learning curve getting into Google at grants for You know, first day I would say no. I would say if he spent three days on their learning tools. You you weren’t gonna have. You could do all the basics. Okay, Yeah. If you go, if you just kind of go in and go for it, there’s one person considered. Do it and I know it does get very sophisticated. It doesn’t, but it’s a threshold. You don’t feel like it’s. It should be intimidating to a small and midsize shop. It shouldn’t really to go really far with it, but there are many levels of success. You don’t have to go in and be making a ton of revenue. But if you if you can boost your traffic by just a few percent, that’s a huge win. Okay, so it’s a It’s a no brainer and definitely should be looked into more. OK, time for our last break text to give you get there. Five part email. Many course to dispel myths around mobile giving donations do not have to go through the donors phone company that puts a limitation on on the donations because the phone company doesn’t want to collect too much money. They don’t wanna be responsible for any more than a couple a couple of dollars you don’t have to go through phone companies. You could do mobile giving without the phone companies. That’s what you can learn. That’s a part of what you learn in this five part email. Many course You text NPR to four, four, four nine nine nine. We’ve got lots more time for the twenty nineteen Digital outlook report. Jennifer, you have something quick that comes out of the thie report? Yeah, I think one of the areas that I’ve been focusing on is that the communication between different departments, particularly communications and fund-raising, our marketing and fund-raising depending what you call it. And I think that, you know, doing simple things like meeting once a month and just sharing what it is that you’re doing. Having a calendar that has everybody’s communications on it on DH, even just something as simple as that. Ask stopping Find that if you actually will switch desks with someone who’s in a different department, it’s amazing just how you all of a sudden haven’t understanding of what that department is going through, what they need. So if you can, you can you can you can I bring my stress ball with me to the nude. Absolutely. Hyre switch What? Well, and it doesn’t have to be a permanent situation, but maybe are like a day or two. You just literally will switch desk. You’re working with different does exactly and work in a different department. So you’re talking to. So if you’re a fundraiser and you’re sitting in the marketing department, you all of a sudden maybe understand why they communicate in a certain way to donors That’s different from your communication. But now that you understand it, you could say, OK, I get it. So when we do our communications, I know how I can work with them to make sure that we’re talking to our donors in a similar way. Okay, this is the cross skill. It’s learning that you mentioned in your exactly your session description. Okay, Element, you brought up the idea of quick fixes Lovett. What? What do you have out of the report that you’d like to see done better on easy to do so? One of the things that we find with a lot of our is there some background is that noise. Is that coming from behind the behind our backdrop? I think so. I think that’s a V C R m. They’re out of control. But that’s that’s what That background noises. But now I’m seeing it shakes. Always having too much fun over there. Yeah, VCR M com comfort. OK, I think they took my admonishing quite it down. Okay, I’m sorry. On a and so one of the things that we recommended in this report is that a lot of the time again because non-profit unfortunate, do you have a high staff turnover? Sometimes the training programs and new staff received honors, you know, comprehensive as they could be. So we recommend It’s a really simple thing. I’m surprised more organizations don’t do it, but write your own how two guys with how to use specific kinds of technologies. So when somebody does come in and maybe they don’t have people run experience, they can have a guy that’s always making final online. But if you’re right with God, that takes into account what your organization uses Google ground. There is something that will not be relevant to your organization online. But if you have a bespoke guide, your organization is. Somebody could read it and have screen shots, and they know exactly how to use it, how to four reports out to look at the metrics and matter to your organization. And it’s just a simple thing to have in a shared drives. So no matter who comes in or leaves, people can’t just go in and they’ve got a written guide. You know, visual aids. I love calling it a he spoke guide. Yeah, sorry. So is worth the time to document. Yeah, doctors use each different platform. Okay, there’s always that a situation where the one person who knows how to work a servant part of the database has to go out on sick leave or goes on vacation. How dare them go on vacation? Never a good time to be sick. So this this way. I mean, there’s always a backup plan, so you don’t feel trapped or panicked or stranded, and it happens. Charlie, How was the, uh was the report compiled interviews or serve written surveys, online surveys where I was the info gathered. It was all online survey, and then we all got together and pulled all the most clear data that we could from it on DH. It was really great for three organizations to come together and pull all the different things that we saw patterns in to that we wanted to share with everybody and the non-profit community to see. So each individual person sharing their own experience and then coming together and then seeing the patterns that come out and what I mean really was a major thing of what people didn’t know was the real shocker of the whole report. Just adding in that extra question, I’m like, I don’t know that And it was really Oh, that means that department’s not sharing that or that apartment’s on another one. So it’s really great. Teo acknowledge that there’s lot everyone doesn’t know, but there’s together. We all know it. So we need to really share across teams across killer teams and making less silo like we always talked about in every time. I feel like every single conference talks about silo, but it’s just, you know, emphasizing the support all over again. There’s no one on the panel from intend you khun sake Confidentially. Nobody listens to this show. Did intend pull their weight organizationally organization wise. Absolutely. Today Oh, you’re getting probably was a ringer off camera. Every everyone was involved a juicy weight. We all work together on it, and we have for the past. I know you worked together, but that intent pulled their share of the ways. Absolutely. Do I’m asking? Explicit questions are wonderful. Expert. You okay? Thank you. Um, let’s see. Um e let’s like this idea of a cross cross training cross skill. Any other suggestions besides desk swapping? Any other ways of how there must be other ways. Yeah, one of the things that’s great about death stopping as you’Ll learn that there are people that you sit next to maybe their developer. But they have experiences a graphic designer on DH. You wouldn’t really They wouldn’t say necessary in their job. But you get speaks to them and get to know them or on DH. The other great thing is, Well, if someone has the time, they could do in lunch and learn. So perhaps somebody’s interested in, you know, creating a paid such campaign strategy, and they’re just a regular copywriter. But there’s someone else you can write a copyright for and, you know, paid such they can have a session with Copywriter and teach them that skill. And it’s just a free, you know, short lesson. Basically, you’re not paying for a course. So you know you’re learning you’re learning from your peers your cut from your colleagues? Absolutely. And when they go to do the camp there first over campaign, they could be shadowed by the expert, and they can ask them questions. They get started. So it’s not just a one off session that you attend, and that’s it. You have the ongoing support for as long as the experts that OK, and I think it’s I think it’s also important that when tohave management encouraged people to share what their skills, that is because I think a lot of times like the example you gained a developer who ilsen knows graphic design. That may not be something that person it talks about very much. But if you encourage people to share what it is that they know, you will find and probably be very pleasantly surprised at all, the skill says that you do have on your team just do that in meetings or what Regular meetings brainstorming. Hey, does anybody know how to do this? Design this logo or does anybody and just you know, if you have an open communication and a nen vier mint of encouraging that you will find that more people will speak up and share what it is that they could do. I love this cross team learning. You can’t cross skillsets. Yeah, yeah, It’s a lot of building relationships, as fundraisers were always talking about building relationships. But it’s super important to build those relationships within your internal injury, not only with your donors and volunteers and potential donors. Yeah, treat all of your fellow co workers just like their donors and making sure you’re generous and kind to them as well, because they will be generous and kind to you. I feel like we forget that we’re together. We’re together day in and day out, eight, ten hours a day way. Take it, take each other for granted and absolutely way. Forget that we should be building relationships and learning from each other the way we’re doing. For those who are, you know, another constituent. The external constituents exactly makes the workplace much more stimulating that way, and people feel valued when you’re using their skills that they didn’t adverse. I advertise or they don’t use day today and it makes everybody feel more valued. And it also, you know, improves the workplace environment as well. People are happy to come to work, excited to come to work. And when people are happy and exciting, that’s when the creativity just could go through the roof. Let’s talk about adapting technology to your needs rather than you adapting to the technology. You mentioned that in your session description. Who wants to talk? You want to start with adapting to your purpose rather than vice versa. Way had a case study of the BCS PC and thank you for B C B C S P, C A, B C, Rutgers Columbia species because it’s one of the largest animal welfare organization shit in the world on they want to do a, uh, gift catalog. But there constituents are middle aged women, so they wanted something that was very familiar to them for the online experience. They didn’t want to go out of the box. There was nothing that they could really see that was going to be super familiar on easy and just really integrated. So instead of going with any non-profit tools, they went with Shopify on DH, adopted it as a non-profit tool on went and sought out on an APP developer that was created a specific tax receding app, but that is now available to anybody. So they it is an open source tax reseeding abs. So anybody that wants to use that kind of technology can, uh so sharing generously with non-profit community on DH. It’s totally its growth and compliant with U. S and Canada. So So you were encouraging. Encourage using tools or least evaluating the usefulness of tools that aren’t necessarily non-profit. Non-profit created exactly exactly just going instead of just being. This is the only thing available to us making something work that is going to work. Most importantly, for the constituents and for their supporters, that’s who you’re really was. The most important people is like Who’s who’s it going to, who’s going to use it every day on if it’s not fixed them? And that’s what they’re comfortable. But make it work. You still have a few minutes left. What, have I not ask you that you want to talk about anybody? Anybody, okay? You’re doing this seventy five minute workshop and we’ve been together for, like, twenty four, so don’t hold out on non-profit A lot of a lot of cubine. Yeah, right. Okay. All right then I’ll do tomorrow more cues. Okay. Um we didn’t talk. Uh, we don’t talk too much about peer-to-peer way just brushed on it now, See, now we only have a couple minutes left. So who wants to talk? Charlie? It looks like you want to talk about peer-to-peer. Well, we’re really surprised. Forty four percent of non-profits air not embracing peer-to-peer when there’s such a huge demand for it. People want that person’s experience. Online experience is more and more personalized, and people want fund-raising the way they want it. Fund-raising Not necessarily with, you know, the run you do every year, the gala you do every year. And it’s a very kind of you, Mitch. More and more in each market, people want to do what they wanted. Teo. So we want more non-profits. Look att peer-to-peer creating the tools that that will empower their donors to go out and do do peer-to-peer campaigns. What else? What else can we learn from this report? Peer-to-peer I’m that Besides, look at it if you’re into it, and if you’re in the forty four percent. It’s not as daunting or scary to look at that two. Doas. It looks I mean it when you do one. I think you just get really behind it, get more creative and come up with all these different ideas. You’re basically giving power, Teo. The you know, the fundraiser Teo, do what they want Teo to get money, and it gives them more of a sense off. Just I raise this money rather than I give money to an organization. So create a closer bond with the organization rather just sending a donation through a landing page. Okay, Okay. I think one of the barriers a lot of non-profits have to use the technology to do peer-to-peer is not always the best, but I know that improvements are being made on that all the time. And I think, you know, don’t let the technology be the barrier to do it. It’s still something that’s so valuable for every non-profit that they should do it exactly. We’re gonna leave it there. All right? Right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. They are Helena Francis, digital marketing account Exec, H J C Charlie Jared non-profit Digital consultant at H J. C. And Jennifer Jones Ingram, director of strategy and partnerships. That Care, too, And you Are with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ninety seethe. Twenty nineteen non-profit Technology CONFERENCE Like all our interviews, this one is brought to you by our partners and act blue. Free fund-raising Tools Help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us next week. Nobody’s reading your pdf CE and mapping your data. If you missed any part of today’s show, I’d be seat you find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by Pursuant online Tools for Small and midsize non-profits, Data Driven and technology enabled Tony dahna. I’m a Slash pursuing capital P by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers wetness tps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made easy Text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine Ah, creative producers Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York, with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative network. Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. 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Nonprofit Radio for May 3, 2019: Reducing Donor Abandonment & Welcome Your Donors The Right Way

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Matt Scott & David DeParolesa: Reducing Donor Abandonment
From Amazon to Zappos, there’s a lot you can learn from e-retailers to keep your donors in the checkout stream as they make their online gifts. Our 19NTC panel, Matt Scott and David DeParolesa, reveal proven e-commerce strategies to increase online gift completion. Matt is from CauseMic and David is at Give Lively.





Brenna Holmes & Chrissy Hyre: Welcome Your Donors The Right Way
Your donors now complete their online gifts at record rates. Have you got in place a multichannel welcome and nurture series to receive and steward your new donors? Our panel will get you started. They’re Brenna Holmes with CCAH and Chrissy Hyre from Innovation. (Also recorded at 19NTC)





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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent of your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d grow on Odo polyp ous if I heard that you missed today’s show. Reducing donors Abandonment From Amazon to Zappos There’s a lot you can learn from e retailers to keep your donors in the checkout stream as they make their online GIF ts Our nineteen anti seat panel Matt Scott and David de Para Lisa reveal proven e commerce strategies to increase online gift completion. Matt is from cause *** and David is at Give lively and welcome your donors the right way. Your donors now complete their online GIF ts at record rates. Have you got an in? Have you got in place? A multi-channel welcome and nurture Siri’s to receive and steward these new donors. Our panel will get you started. They’re brenholz is with C ch and Chrissy hyre from innovation that’s also recorded at nineteen and TC. I’m Tony Steak to be the one we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony Dad, I’m a slash pursuing by weather CPAs guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to four four four nine nine nine Here is reducing donor Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. You know what that is? It’s a non-profit technology conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. This interview, like all are nineteen ntcdinosaur views is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. My guests now are Matt Scott sitting closest to me. He’s CEO of Cosmic and David De Para Lisa, CEO of Give Lively Welcome Welcome mat. Welcome, David. Thank you. Thanks, Tony. Pleasure. Pleasure to have you on DH mascot. Welcome back to non-profit Radio. Thank you. It’s good to be back. All right. Your topic here today is reducing donor. What’s a copy from e retailers? David, why don’t you get us started? What? Give us the Give us the headline in the lead. Sure. So this session is intended to help non-profits think about the full life cycle of thie experience of making a donation and all of the elements that could result in someone dropping off from completing a donation way. Want to, you know, bring in expertise from the consumer world. The world that most everyone lives in on apply it to this non-profit space. Okay. And just so in case there’s any question want you define abandonment for us. So someone starts a starts to donate two or starts thie intent, or has the intent to donate to your cause and then leaves in the middle of it. Right? Okay. Yeah. Okay, Matt, anything you want to add to the overview of our session? Yeah. I mean, I think when we’ve had a lot of conversations, one of the thing that I really enjoy about David’s perspective is you No way. Think about Amazon. One click check out. Right. We think about Netflix in terms of, you know, the user experience that we’re all used. Teo and I think that if we can copy some of those things and move them over to the non-profit space, we’re going to be a head as an industry. But if we’re thinking on ly about competing against other non-profits from a donor experience, we’re going to find ourselves in a lot of trouble because you’re starting setting the bar too low. You’re setting Well, yeah, you’re absolutely setting the bar too low, because we, as consumers, are also the people who are donating to charities, right? And if our expectation is for it to be a seamless process to collect a little information as possible to have unique, engaging content delivered to us if we’re not thinking like that as a nonprofit organization, we’re missing out on consumer behavior, which are the e retailers, that you want us to learn from that really broad base. So you know, we’re inspired by Amazon Zappos to some degree you thie experience at an Apple store, which, you know, in a way, is a kind of hybrid retail experience and generally taking best practices from that space broadly, even if it is in a specific retailer, it’s It’s some of the elements of what makes Annie retail experience common. For example, a simple donation, a simple check out flow a a checkup, though that doesn’t ask many questions but lets you get through it as fast as possible. A one click check out a digital wallet capability, the’s air, things that have worked for the for-profit sector and non-profit sector is catching up and we hope to help them get there. Yeah, why? What’s the What’s the problem? Why so slow? I mean, we’re all experiencing these things on the e commerce side. Why were we not recognizing that? Uh, the analogy between our our donors and ourselves as consumers? What’s the disconnect? I would say that there’s an access issue. There’s an access to technology that brings the retail style practices to the non-profit. Sectarian give Lively is a response to that problem, which is looking at the world of non-profit tech and seeing that elements like digital wallets are not common, that something that isn’t available in the A lot of other platforms but that is available on the give lively platform. So it’s those types of things that have kept non-profits behind. I mean, unfortunately, platforms or not innovating as fast as they can. And they’re not innovating with the consumer mindset that that us in just a few other players are. Okay. All right, so I started to add to that one of the things that I think is really interesting working with established non-profits, You know, you you look at these behemoths and they are their worst own worst enemy When it comes to technology, you look at the younger, more rapidly growing organizations, and those are the ones that are really out there able to adopt new technologies quickly. They’re not constrained by existing say, CR M systems or their, you know, existing, you know, ways of doing things. And and when you when you take a tool like give lively and you put it out there and you integrate with the C R m like sales force, you unlock that potential. And I’ve seen it time and time again, where established non-profits in particular they are their own biggest hurdle when it comes to getting getting in line with e commerce. Best practice? No. All right, all right. So why don’t you kick us off, Matt? What? Uh, let’s get kicked off with what we should what we should be learning. Where do we start? Yeah, I mean, I think David brought up a lot of really good points in terms of Amazon, and you’ve got, you know, a donor experience. But then what I’m really interested in and I think where we complement one another is on the content side. And so I like to always start with you know who is your target audience? What is the unique user experience that that person or persons wants tohave with your brand? And how can you make sure from the moment that they interact with your brand and are brought to your page to your checkout form that they understand you’re unique market position? And so I think that that’s really important to have a singular content strategy that’s very user focused. And, uh, if it’s okay handing it over to David because I feel like that’s where he picks up in terms of the e commerce checkout process and where that’s really critical in terms of the transition from content to check out. OK, yeah, I noticed matter-ness were on Mike, you’re more deferential than, uh Well, then all this *** that you were giving me before before. Before I turn the mike on, why don’t we talk about monthly giving, for God’s sake? But all of a sudden, my cousin, he’s like, uh, if you don’t mind, I’d like to pass it over to David. Very interesting. There can only be one New York around like you’re dominating. Yeah, you multiple turned. You know, talk about talk about best. I’m gonna start the guest personas start start creating that that is surrounded by New Yorkers right now. Yeah. You know, you’re only here. He’s being into forced deference. A submission sametz Alright, yes. Well, I’ll take your suggestion. The matter very politely requested It’s time for a break Pursuing the art of first impressions how to combine strategy analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. That’s their e book on donor acquisition and had to make a smashing first impression with your potential donors. You will find it on the listener landing page at Tony that I may slash pursuing capital P for please. Now back to reducing donor-centric. Share your expertise. You did tick off a bunch of things. I wallet went one click, check out seamless, but we got we got a lot more time together that way. Gotta go into some detail. Yeah, and so you know, at first I think it be helpful too. Acknowledge what Matt mentioned in terms of thinking about storm the content, right? And the thing that keys in for me there is thinking about how the experience starts at the level of the ask and then the level of the intent of the donor. So to reduce abandonment, you want to get the right person to the checkout flow, right? So you want to start with the right people who respond to that message. And so you know what that’s doing It cosmic is creating messages that resonate at a very granular level with different constituencies in such a way that when they get to the checkout flow, they finished the check out great. And I think that okay, that thread is a thread that involves technology because it’s not only the channels in which that message is being sent, but then it’s how that story is represented on the donation page and through the check outflow and even after the checkout float. Okay, we’LL come back to that. I understand ITT’s all of spectrum. Yes. Ah, movement a process, Matt. What? The different how we identify the different constituencies for these granular messages. Yeah, No, you’re you’re getting at is like, what are the technical steps that need to be put in place? So let’s just take acquisition is a great example, right? So you’re you’re going to post up a variety of ads like paid social. And if you set up separate landing pages with separate checkout forms, that’s one way of identifying. You know, this ad directly relates to this check out page, and there is a continuum of content once you arrive there at that page and you know they arrived from there because you’ve set up different ones. The content can then be dynamic essentially for that constituents. And that’s where David talks a lot about stealing your thunder here. But you know, you you have you have that check out for him. That’s asking for his little information as possible. So capturing that email address in that zip code and getting right into the payment and and you’re getting right down to the nitty gritty then you’re worrying about Okay, now that I’ve already got this information, what additional information do I need to provide? But I’ve already processed the donation. That’s right, Yeah, So it’s thinking about what is Germaine to the donation experience as the only things that you should be asking a donor before the payment is actually made. You want to capture the dollars, so every affair to say, like with his few distractions, is possible. There’s no need to have AH on issue video on your or issue photos on your on your checkout page for donation. The person has already moved by your issues. Well, it depends in their different ways that that can be implemented. One way would be to have a page that’s both telling the story and allows you to make that seamless donation in the same view. Okay, and there’s some that do the jump, right? So there’s a storytelling page, and then you jumped to a donation form that’s on a different page, and I’ve seen it done both ways and, you know, way See it work both ways really depends heavily, though, upon how they get there, right? Like if they’re coming to your they’re experiencing your brand for the first time, where they haven’t, you know they need to be informed, right? And so another best practice is having called toe actions throughout your page. Right? So you’re not just one. So you’ve got big, strong, powerful image or something that draws that user in from a content perspective in a high c t es of donations and I think Sita Way got drug in jail on non-profit radio. A cz a previous guest Disappointed you didn’t know that lock myself away is a call to action, right? And to that point, I mean, I think that’s that’s another best practices. Give lively donation check out form can be embedded into your existing site so you can have this microsite like, let’s say, taken unbound page right. And you know that you’ve set up this unique page and you’ve got the both the story there and the narrative there, and then you’ve got a call to actions throughout the page. That’s best practice, because as they move down the content, there’s lots of opportunities to make that contribution. Okay, what’s an unbound page they’re not paying me to talk about on? I’m just kidding. Way were, It’s a wonder. Anything anyone think it’s a tool. You keep this up, I’m shutting your Michael Fair Fair. It’s a it’s a landing page tool that is really easy to use in turn end of setting up unique content on DH. Then you Khun, track that you know someone lands on that page and you contract that they came into your database specific to that content. Okay. Okay. So this is we’re getting to our segmentation of constituencies. Okay, Okay. All right. So now let’s go back to David. What more can you say about place? Things you need to have in place? Sure. So you know one thing that this let’s start at the very kind of high level, which is that a donation form should work if you’re going to reduce it. Abandonment of your donation form one. Someone’s in it. It better work on a mobile device, but it’s kind of a simple statement, but we’ve got to be passed out by now. I mean, everything should be mobile, but that’s not a body. But that’s not always the case. And they’re still donation forms out there that are asking for. I like to joke. It’s there asking for everything but your blood type. You know, it’s a it’s a twenty eighty step form that. Then at the end, you have a credit card entry field. Maybe, and maybe there’s an error in that process. Just over what kind of stuff? They all asking. But I don’t dare ask me. Study this So they’re asking for. You often will see full mailing address, even if that person has no is a digital savvy your digital only person. They’LL ask questions about, perhaps, how they got to our learned about the cause, which is a good question asked. But maybe not before the dollar is captured and can be inferred by some of the tracking that’s occurring. That brought them to the patient was That’s right, pages, etcetera. Okay, um, you know there are even in how the payment information is presented is an element that can be very confusing. So for some donation forms, they make you type or choose whether it’s a Visa card instead of just detecting. Yeah, why did he do that? I know it. And I can tell by the first digit they could tell that the battery ditches first for Justin. It’s welcome. And that’s not even that’s not unique to non-profits Know that. Was there e commerce mary-jo just to say that? I said, That’s laziness on behalf of those building those forms, okay, or that’s lack of capacity. Shoes is a diner’s club or MasterCard or visa or markets. It’s laziness. I mean, it’s easy to detect. It should be present on every single page is interesting. All right. So I don’t know if listeners were interested, but I am well, but it’s, you know, but the channel there are there’s data that shows that every, you know, hub spot ran a study and show that when you increase the amount of fields that you ask a person to complete, you end up over about two to three fields total. You get a fifty percent drop off. Oh, so it’s that high so And once you get to eight, which is many of what he’s talking about, right, you’re down to its well under single digits of conversion rate, which is a dismal. If you think about like you have a really strong contents from the person was into it, they made their way to your donation return until you ask them for their blood type. Yeah, I I also will say one of my pet peeves that, you know, non-profits continuously asked people for the same information over and over and over and over again. Right? So you know who this constituent is? You’ve sent them this email communication. You already know who they are there in your database, and you ask them to re identify all that information again. For what? Like why? You know, when you go to Netflix and you have your subscription to Netflix, they’re not asking you. Or if you’re in Dollar Shave Club and you decide to get shaving cream on top of your razor, no one’s asking you. By the way, could you tell us like what you’re you are in? Yeah. Like right? No, we know. Okay, save it and stop asking for repetition. All right? Yeah. Consolidate. I mean, consolidate fields as much as possible. Don’t ask for the same inspiration twice. What’s essential? I mean, I’m all right, so I’m thinking of the quintessential, you know, the Amazon checkout. It’s been so long since I did. My first time was on a purchase like everybody else. I obviously can’t remember that, but what? What, What? What, what? What’s actually essential. So I mean so in my view and the view that informed to give lively donation platform when we first launched it, it was nothing more than identifying information about that donor. First name last. Actually, in the very early days, not even first name and last name email address, payment information. That was it. You know, now there’s a little bit more in terms of full name, just enough to make sure that we’re doing receding the right way and all of the all of the tax deductible benefits, by the way. So payment information that includes the billing address You have to have the billing and not include Okay, so rate. So let’s get really specific. So it’s It is literally first name, last name, email address and credit card information, meaning nothing more than the number, the expiration date and the CVC code so you can process the donation without without telling you that’s not required. That’s right. And, uh, you know, one of our favorite partners that cosmic is another organization called touchpoint, which is amazing. You give them just too little little tip bits of information like about Tony. We’d find out what kind of bagel heeds you know on Wednesday because they can pull back all that information for for only thirty cents per constituent and give you everything about them. What property they own, what, what non-profits They give to their address everything, and so that’s One of the reasons why we like to give lively platform is you can take as little information as possible, get that donation and then just pay thirty cents. Because if you have drop off, that goes, you know, down fifty percent. When you’ve asked more than three questions, why not ask just as few questions as possible and go pay thirty cents for that information somewhere else? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you cannot go, and that’s getting into very sophisticated strategies in terms of augmenting date. Instead of asking for things up front, find other ways to get at it. You know, there are social networks that have advertising networks that have ways to link. For example, email address is back, too. Uh, that social, so that you don’t necessarily need to ask them. So then you learn more about that donor to those networks through your own work, rather than asking and risking the abandonment. That’s right, just the frustration do of it. Okay, um, go ahead, go ahead. I was going to say I think David should speak a little bit about, you know, the digital wallets, and that’s that is absolutely game changing when it comes to best practice. So take it from here. Thanks. So and we’LL get a mascot non-profit radio things there latto longest running part kapin most listen to podcasts. It’s also in order Mobile off deferential and generous welchlin the mike is on. Yeah, yeah, B b cut. Well, good to have Tony back on the show. I just like so we, you know, hear Give life. So that another session, actually that that I’m leading called digital while it’s so hot right now and in that session will talk about digital wallets. The concept. I mean, digital arts have been around for a long time, but in examples of them are PayPal. Apple pay, Google pay the’s are one click payment options that have in them a variety of security protections and data that gets easily shared without having to ask that door faster. Just talking about All right, so there’s no entry. What? You’ve entered a credit card once you’ve entered your address once, and you’re just using it over and over again in in this example of donation form on. They’re incredibly powerful, and they are people use them. The level of, you know, penetration of mobile wallets. is increasing increasing at all age groups, but particularly with younger foe. But in non-profits well, very few have actually have ever had access to it. So our platform has digital wall So you’LL see See it in. For example, If you go to malala dot org’s that’s one of our partners right on their home page You’LL see if you have a wallet on apple pear Groupe browser that you’re on you’LL see those buttons right there and you can make that donation very quickly If you’re on your phone, you’LL see it there. But most other platforms are not offering that service or they’re just now offering that service eso And but this is a service that we’re used to write. So think about buying a cup of coffee at a on using square and tapping with apple pay. You’re not. I also think like it would be it would be troubling if we didn’t at least mention this best practice for me. Commerce, which is the classic upsell, right? So I think one of the areas that I’ve seen the wall it works so well is when you’ve got you’ve got a recurring donorsearch, right, you’ve got this person who’s a member of your tribe, right? And one of our client team, Rubicon, stands out. Our mercy corps stands out where you have these sustaining donors who give monthly right. Then you have this urgent appeal that comes up. And because you have a really robots content strategy and your quantifying the impact of their recurring gift, you send them a text message that is a simple is them putting their thumbprint on to authorize an additional one time contribution for a wildfire in, you know, Northern California or whatever. It is incredibly effective for up selling for those who are on a subscription model a CZ. Well, as you know, you attend an event or whatever it is, it’s an easy way to take that best practice for me. Commerce, which is your existing customers, are your best potential you know, customers for for an additional service. Yeah, yeah, and those you know, those buttons should be front and center. So no ineffective donation form to reduce abandonment shows you easy ways to pay up front and suggests the best way to pay right on, right on that first screen. So, you know, looking at a donation from that works. Well, is one that may say you’re making a twenty five dollar donation monthly. Tap this one button and you’re done. You’re you’ve not even moved beyond that first page. You’ve really not even asked any additional questions of the user because the answer’s air embedded inside of a digital wallet payment s o very low friction. Easy to make donations much more secure. One of the objections of her, uh, from’s arounds streamlining like we’re talking about is the preservation of credit credit card information. Because then that then you’re implicated with Peace PCL complaining PC exactly that So that an acronym fell? No, not when I do it. Ok, ok. Thank you. Thank you. It’s personal. Personal credit information watching your mike is going down. It’s already been slowed down. You hear yourself? But no one else will. Yeah, I notice you’re only asking David questions. You know, I don’t not only get to speak. He says, Can I say something? I, uh, thought I should mention here is because Tony is not going to ask me. All right, so now you’re now you’re in your you’re implicating PC I compliance requirements, But if you’re accepting, you use digital wallets, you’re not. You’re not personally. You think the organization is not preserving the the information right? It’s the I don’t know what it’s called the host of the host of the wallet. Yeah, exactly what they were getting into the payment process. Non-profit. The payment process apparently doesn’t have to save the Yeah, I mean, I hope. And if I I hope no one listening to this who’s who is working for a nonprofit is ever dealing directly with PC high compliance like they should be using a vendor who is shielding them from that level of risk because that’s incredibly risky and a lot of a bureaucratic burden in order to get PC I compliant. So the payment processors under the give lively platform are stripe papal. Those air both PC I complaint writers in the case and in all cases platform like you’ve lively, never has access to a person’s donor-centric our information directly and through a wallet. What’s really smart about wallets is how they hide. Even they create one time use credit card numbers. Essentially, that’s an easy way to think about it. One time use numbers that he used every time you make a purchase so that there’s no one number goes down or gets, you know, used inappropriately, and it’s not affecting any other element of your credit history. So it’s secure on hidden from both the payment provider themselves as well as a platform for writer. No, certainly the non-profit. Okay, man, I’m gonna give you a break, actually, and I feel bad. I don’t really feel bad, but I’ll say I feel bad about the way I’ve treated you. So I’m going to give you the going to give you the wrap up because we just have, like, a twenty or thirty seconds or so let you clue how generous cosmic from clolery Thank you. Uh, I would say for any non profit organization who is out there, think about to yourself. What is the experience that you did? You really just turn? No. Okay. So paranoid. I don’t take my word for it, I guess. Think about the experience that you have with the brands that you love and think about how you feel when you’re asked lots of questions that are unnecessary and and try and channel that when you’re setting up your your donation form or when you’re selecting your vendor toe work with to process your donations because it’s that that’s the standard. The standard is not other non-profits. The standard is not your system that you’ve been using for three decades, and it works because it’s what we always used. The standard is how we interact with brands on a daily basis and how we spend our money on a daily basis, and it’s really important to think about that. Those brands have raised the bar your donors are experiencing that that high level of, of, of, of purchase flood. He’s he’s thank you, and they’re coming to expect it from you. That’s right, Yeah, Unless unless they abandon the process, that’s right and, you know, and then give Lively’s case, just plug us for a second. You know, we don’t charge money for our for access to our platform, so we’re enabling non-profits use digital wallet type technology and have that access and not have to pay for it. And I think that’s something unique, and I hope people take advantage of that. All right. It was shameless self promotion, but allowed with bilich thinking, I feel like I’m with the two Smart through smart promoter from cookies. Permit me to say Young Young Seo’s fifty six. I can’t say that. Alright on DH They are Matt Scott’s Yo of Cosmic and David de Para Lisa, CEO of Give Lively, and this is Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ntcdinosaur non-profit Technology Conference This interview Like all our nineteen ninety seon reviews brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’re free. Webinar came and went. It was tips and tricks for your nine. Ninety. You missed it. No problem. Watch the archive. Yes, the archive learned how to use your nine ninety as a marketing tool. The thing is so widely available from GuideStar Charity Navigator Attorneys general, Probably your own website. Let the nine ninety promote your work. That’s what the webinar helps you with. Wagner cps dot com Quick seminars, Then go to April. Now, time for Tony’s Take two be the one. This was inspired by a re union that I attended and had a hand in Ah of Air Force of former Air Force missile ears. We were all working in the Reagan years on Minuteman. Two nuclear missiles were all missile operators at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri, and we got together way left there in the late eighties. We’ve been together a couple times, but only eyes our third time. So ah, lot of people haven’t been seen for years, and some even never even came to their other reunions. But the idea of everyone coming together, um, sharing old stories coming together like like it had been just a week. And for some, it’s been thirty years since we’ve seen them, but that common bond. So I encourage youto get people together from the different phases of your life, whether it’s elementary school, high school, college, whatever. Grad school, military neighborhood. If you’ve got ah, if you’ve got this, I don’t know. Affinity group sounds kind of formal, but if you’ve got these group of people, these folks who know each other and shared something, it’s such fun to get them together. It’s rewarding. It’s gratifying. It’s just it feels like being a kid again. Do it, do it. That’s what the video is about and you’LL find that video at tony martignetti dot com That is Tony’s Take two Now that a hundred percent of your donors complete their online gif ts u want to welcome them the right way? Here’s that from twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen NTC non-profit Technology conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. This nineteen ninety si interview, like all of ours, is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me are brenholz homes and Chrissy hyre. They’re both with Chapman, cubine and Husi. Brenna, seated next to me is vice president for digital services and Chrissy is vice president Innovation Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back to each of you. You, you and Brenna has disclosed that thes these interviews have a secondary purpose for her. Chrissy, I’m sorry. Kinda married. That’s not Christy. Christy has disclosed there’s they have a dating. They have dating power. They do so definitely. Come on the show. Yeah, because your your dates will google you. They will find your non-profit radio interview. Yeah, and when they do that? I want you to inquire about the host. I’m really not interested in what they thought of your performance, What they think about the host and then let me know if it’s positive on Lee was not positive. It’s not positive. Silence is best. Just carry on with your date after that ostomel of that. That’s it. But we’re not talking about dating. We’re talking about making them well, we are actually making love you. Yeah, welcoming donors the right way is your your session topic. Um so, Chrissy, what a zoho overview. What are non-profits not getting quite right about welcoming? Let’s start with first time donors and will evolve in the conversation from there. But what we’re not doing quite right. Yeah, So I mean, you know, Brenna says this really Well, actually, but you really only get one chance to make a first impression. And so one of the things that a lot of organizations don’t do particularly well is showing folks exactly how much they care about the gift that folks are giving to them. And so, you know, one of the things that we really focused on our session today was thinking through. What are the ways that you connect people back to your mission back to the work that you’re doing, making them really understand the impact of the gift that they’ve just given and building that connection in that relationship so that they’re ready to take that to the next level, so to speak and give you another gift? Okay, on Brenda, how do we get started thinking about this process that we have for for donors? Yeah, think about everything from multi-channel perspective very much, not just the channel they gave the gift in, but really talking to them in multitude of ways. Because, as you know, everybody’s over saturated in lots and lots of media on DH non-profits have to do more and more to stay top of mind, get keep that good feeling moving forward to maintain that share of wallet as well. So the first thing that you start with, like especially for online donors, very appropriate here for Auntie Si is making sure that you’re customizing the confirmation page and the auto respond or email to that donation. A lot of it is just like the default setting. Non-profits never remembered a change on just updating that can go very long way customizing the confirmation page and the acknowledgement letter that yeah latto respondent your mail going a little bit further and adding direct mail into the mix by sending your online donors direct mail. Acknowledgement letter goes even more like We love that wonderful. Now I did have a panel just maybe an hour or so ago. I want half ago. That said, you know you want to keep your donation process streamlined, Ask a few questions possible now, in order to get the the direct mail address. That’s going to be another level of questions you have to ask. Well, no, You mean you pretty much can’t make a credit card donation without putting in the billing address anyways, so it’s already part of the foreign fields to process again. OK, well, not according to those two guys. I guess it depends on the platform. Two friends on your processor, I guess. Sure, right? Yeah, they were saying they were pretty clear that you do not have to ask for address. You can, but you don’t have to. The majority of non-profit websites today do they do rice. But their point was, that’s not the best idea. Right, But But now so well. But this is not in conflict, right? We gotta bring this tio black and white. Everything not so clear. So, you know, I mean, you’re saying that’s a lycan ideal process. Ideal practice. Acknowledging an online gift, I’LL find through the mail offline. Okay, there could be another way of acknowledging that online gift could be through phone. A phone number could be another way. Okay, uh, Wes life calls. Auto House. Okay. Latto caught was latto calls. Yes, was a pre recorded call very inexpensive that, like the executive director of the organization, can record. And you send that to all of your new donors to welcome them to the organism. Thank them and welcome them. Yep. Okay. Interesting. Um, okay, Uh, I’m not sure. So we’re way. Start with audit of our current process. Always a place to start. Okay. What are we looking for? What? Some common sticking points and bad practices that we want to be conscious. Seldman are loaded. So we’re looking at, like, what already goes out, right? What’s the default? So again, for online donors, there is the default confirmation page. That’s usually very receipt transactional basis that has all of the semi critical information from the processors point of view. But it’s not very donor-centric on DH. It certainly doesn’t show the impact that the gift is going to make for the non-profit who’s receiving the donation. Same thing with that otter responder email. It’s generally plain text, very receipt based. Well, we want to do is build out stewardship touches like turned these receipts into nurtured opportunities so that people are bonding with the organization and moving past that transactional relationship. Same thing with their direct mail receipts. You know, most organizations send them out, at least to their direct male donors, if not also to their online donors. But you can improve upon the look and feel of that package, make it really stand out in the mailbox so that it doesn’t look like one of your fund-raising appeals. Or it doesn’t look like a bill from, you know, your health insurance company or anything else right on DH. Just show that love right up front. No one has ever said, Stop thanking me like in the history of effort, So that’s something that we’re constantly trying to reinforce with that, and then the newer, like the newer channels, all of the innovation with SMS and auto calls, or even live calling like those air usually add on so they wouldn’t show up in your audit. But they’re nice iterations to go above and beyond on DK and be done with volunteers and things like that out of my Mahler’s remembers. I love a working board. Yeah, put him to work, Christie. What you wantto I mean, I think that that’s exactly right. Everything Brenna said. I think the one thing to consider and your audit as well is making sure is, Brennan noted, at the top of our conversation about that multi-channel experience. So just because someone is giving online, don’t assume they don’t want to hear from you offline. You know, a lot of us almost all of our media interactions are happening in on a screen. And so to actually get that piece of paper is something that people really remember really means a lot to them, and it’s significant. The other thing is, don’t be afraid to reach people on their phone to think them. You know, a lot of people have sort of a bad taste in their mouth about what telemarketing is. Nobody’s gonna be upset if you call them to say thank you. And nobody’s gonna be upset if you text them to say thank you. And if you text them to say thank you, they’re definitely gonna see and they’re definitely gonna remember it. Okay, Um, so after we have our audit, what’s our next step? We got it. We got to start improving improving our practices. Copy. Maybe a little bit of time. Couple steps in time. Your creative Seymour Brennan. Yeah. So it’s, you know, it is about building up the that content into both being relevant for that specific donorsearch for Don’t hurt I ppe Did they make a one time gift at what dollar value did that dollar value kicked them into e-giving circle of some level. And then you need to acknowledge that in a separate way, you can also use the type of appeal that they responded Teo to enforce. Thank you. Copy as well. So like, did they respond to something about puppy mills versus something about horse meat? Like having that content flow through into the acknowledgement program and into the welcome Siri’s afterwards to keep them going tohave a next action opportunity eyes A fantastic way to start. Is it right that our first time donorsearch retention read? Uh, non-profit wide is like around twenty five percent. We typically see closer to a third to being healthy, but oh, I’m going down. I’m citing how bad it is. Yeah, it has been going down is going down. It is going on the wrong direction we got. And that’s honestly, like a lot of that data is coming out around the last few quarters of twenty twenty eighteen. So there’s a lot of reasons right now as we kick off year to start really thinking about how you’re bonding people to the organizations that you’re fund-raising for. All right. All right. Um, we’ll also talk about designing a multi-channel welcome and nurture nurture. Siri’s is that Is that basically what we’re talking about? Our nurture. Siri’s a little bit. I mean, I think I think the acknowledgement process should be part of that nurture mint, right. It’s the first interaction for a lot of organizations post that gift. The first outbound communications and a lot of ways s oh, it’s a natural bridge to the welcome Siri’s and kind of steward that stewarding them throughout that relationship. So longfield we should not be setting anything and forgetting about it. Everything needs to be very conscious decisions about what copy we’re sending to who, what content they’re getting when on the touchpoint. I mean, all of the data that we have shows that the more of those pieces of touch our personally identifiable information right, like whether it’s postal address or email address or phone number, the more of those contact point that we have on for a constituent hyre their retention will be and the hyre their value will be to the organization on a lifetime level. So, like while it might be easier to not get that postal address, I want that postal address. There’s so much more value. Okay? Yeah, You know what? There there are other Point was don’t do it in the donation. All right, that’s in the donation on the donation pages. Waken ask for that later on that they may be right after the gift is made. Would you like to share your your mail? Now that makes it option over. Okay, Right. But then it raises the question of why, right? You which you have to have a good answer, would like to be able to think we’d like to be able to send you something. I don’t know. All right, but, you know, incentive based. Thank you. They’re always like people love swag. So you could do that. That’s definitely an office sticker and done in Dustin. Yeah, okay. What they done Injustice e. Did you get dates with the kind of lines like that? This’s kind of witty banter like that. Future dates or watching? Amazing. Oh, my God. You’re turning right there. Okay, so I just realized I just put two and two together. You that’s gonna happen in the future, too, is not only in the past. Oh, my God. And this is going to be more relevant. More, more. It’s a more recent about making love you. So in other words, what do you think of the host? That’s what I want to know. Okay. Uh, Christy date. What do you think of the host? Keep which it’s Tony. As tony martignetti dot com is the best way. Or you can use the contact page at tony martignetti dot com from and I never hear from you again. I think the time you said I think, think of the time I’m saving you. Thank you so much if they come, if they beating you up, I feel about you know if if they make it through over this threshold, right and you know that it’s it’s really more than yeah, it’s more than superficial thinking past this. They say they watch the whole video like we haven’t gotten into a ton of things, but I can try to learn more. We’LL see Next time just roughly halfway in thistle happened roughly twelve minute mark. So? So if they hear this, they making twelve minute mark. You know, I think there’s potential definitely beyond the average. Definitely all right time for our last break text to give. Get their five part email. Many course to dispel myths around mobile giving. You know donations don’t have to go through the donors phone company that puts a cap on GIF ts. There’s a smarter way with no cap. Mobile giving does not have to be limited to single or double digit gif ts. To get the email. Many course. Dispel the myths you text NPR to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. We’ve got lots more time for welcome your donors the right way. Okay, so we’re, like only halfway in. So what else do we need to talk about if you don’t? Your panel yet? We did it. So one third, seventy five minutes. Talking about what else? What else? On Let’s broaden it a little bit now. So not on ly first time donors, but volunteermatch comes a donor. Small, small gift donorsearch a mid level or higher level donor. What do we need to do to make them love us? Chrissy? Yeah. So I think this is actually really great question. So thank you for asking. It s o. You know, essentially, I think that there are ways Tio Tio integrate people into new parts of our organization. I think one of the easiest things for folks to understand is upgrading folks to monthly giving. And how do you start to think those people in a way that feels really special and bonds them to that program you already know? They’re exceptionally bonded to the work that you’re doing. And so how do you start to think them in a way that makes them feel like, Oh, my gosh. Now we’re part of an even more special piece of this community, right? So, you know, in our session, we talked a lot about you know, when you, for example, are thinking a monthly donor. Often do you want to thank them? Do you wantto Brenda calls it waking the bear. You know, where you kind of like your calling out to them? Do you want to tell them? Every month you’re giving me a monthly gift, and then, you know, where do you want? Oh, yeah. You know, you want to take him every month. I mean, so there we were talking about it also talked about splitting the baby there because there are philosophical differences and conversations there. I think the that standard used to be Don’t wake the bear, right? Don’t remind them that they’re giving every month they will leave. Oh, my gosh, that can’t be it anymore. We all have so many subscriptions in our life, whether it’s Netflix or Lulu or you know, all of these things, that if they don’t feel good about it, then when the card expires or is stolen or core compromised not going to bother and I drop them might drop it, right? So So we had some people in this action that we’re talking about quarterly, right? Maybe kind of following up in a different way, a different time period. So it’s not every month, but I think you can do monthly as long as you are using it as a nurture touchpoint. It’s not just a receipt like you don’t want anything you give to your donors to just be a throwaway effort. If you’re taking the time to send it, you wanted to actually mean something to them. So if it’s literally just a receipt, how much value does that really provide? Like not a lot. OK, so something impactful for that month. Way reached. Yeah, I don’t know. Nothing’s coming to mind, but that’s why you’re the consultants in that. And I’m the consultant plan e-giving. Yeah, you know, one of the go ahead. You know, I’m just flushing out why I don’t have an answer. I don’t no more. No more detailed needed on that. I don’t have a suggestion, I should say, Well, one of the things that you know could be a really impactful way to leverage that Thank you. Moment is to kind of look at your sustainers file in winter, people the most likely to fall off of your file and then take that opportunity to do, like an exceptional thankyou. So we see you lose a lot after between one, three and four, right? Exactly. So maybe that’s the month where you send that hand written note. That’s like we know you are. We love you. We see you right? If you already you’re sending tote bags or calendars in your acquisition or something like that. Leveraging that with a special note two two sustainers at the quarter mark for the six month mark way have clients that do, like all out at your anniversary. Your thank you for being here for one year with us, you know, making it about them. There was miles so now and then again, tying it to the impact and, like people want to make impact and they want to feel important. And that’s true whether this is their first ten dollars gift or their thousand dollar gift or their one million dollar gift. And so figuring out the way that you say thank you that feels like they’re making that difference, that that matters. That’s part of a good donor experience, you know, And I think that carries through whether it’s sustainers or like an event volunteer who’s becoming a donor for the first time. That’s a different level of engagement with the organization and the fact that they have that history already with you eyes very powerful. And so, if you can reference that relationship in the content as well, that will go much further and building strengthening that relationship in the long term. Um, a lot of this subsumed in what we’re talking about is having these systems systems in place on DH, constantly tweaking them. Voice just cracked like I’m a fourteen year old is coming twelve fourteen. You gotta have these systems in place and somebody will be monitoring them. Christie, to your point, you know you can’t just set it and forget it. Or one of you said that I’m sorry, whose you bring up, but, um okay, so who’s responsible for these systems? Is this is this is in the development to Development department depends on the non-profit. It’s definitely a collaboration between, like some level and development marketing each non-profit is configured in a different, slightly different way. So, like, who owns things would change, But yeah, the data is really important on and having a two directional or multidirectional sink of key data components so that you can condition allies content based on those relationships from other channels. In other words, like sinking between your cr m and your email Exactly. Your texture responded. Yep. Yeah, and vice versa to write. If we are sending those offline acknowledgements toe online donors, you need that level of information. Ideally, there’s some source codes in there. So you know what sort of relationship they had with you before Andi, you know what sort of appeal? Our issue they came in on. So again, Was it dog me? Are you know, brovey meals are? Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that’s all very important. You don’t have the infrastructure setting that I always like. You know, you got to get your house in order before you invite people over, right? And that’s more about acquisition costs. But data is also super important. Like you can’t. You can start and then build and have a plan to scale because everybody can’t do everything right away. But you got to start with clean data. So can I ask a question? Is that not OK in this setting? Okay, So beat you up so much. How could I possibly say no to im those now, everyone? Yeah, Kristie hyre non-profit. So, like, what would you say about, like, not letting am not letting great be the enemy of good. So, like, invokes air. Just like we we don’t have the bandwidth for all of the data collection or all of the data sank. Like, where? Where is that starting point? Yeah, well, I mean, I think it depends on where you’re getting most of your gifts into, Like, what channel? You want to start with the focus on right, Because bang for the buck. If you’re If most of your gifts are checks in the mail, let’s focus on those confirmation acknowledgement letters, the receives and and the welcome kit direct mail package kind of offline pieces. So you don’t have to worry about the email side of the world if the date is not playing nicely right away. Vice versa. Obviously, here at ntcdinosaur mary-jo online focused, you start on the online site and Luckily with the online stuff you usually have the the thinks like you don’t need to sing because your email marketing system is in the same system. Is your donation processing system doesn’t have to be right plugging You could have a husband spoke solutions at that point, too. But for most of them, they are most of our clients, especially so you can excuse me. You can live also going over, yeah, latto happening at this table. A lot of personal latto personal, something momentous person and not a cheap hormones. So you can. You can create a somewhat cohesive donor experience with siloed channels. It is possible it just takes a lot more like work on an ongoing basis. In Official, it’s very inefficient. So I get out. You know, we talk about how much work it takes to set up the process in the beginning, to get a multi-channel like really integrated surround sound campaign happening. But if you’re not doing that, you’re putting in the leg work all the time to make sure that you don’t sound like two different organizations. An email indirectly, that’s very bad practice. Yeah, have some of the questions were some of the questions you got in your session that you thought were particularly interesting or I don’t know if they could be provocative, but interesting is good. Yeah. WeII did get questions about, like, just testing. What tide of creative treatments. People should focus their time on to test on DH. Tarsem. It depends, obviously, depends on the channel, but I think a lot of it for anything that will email and direct mail. Specifically, it’s trying to get people into the content in the first place. So whether it’s your subject line and send her name and email or your teaser on your outer envelope in the mail, both of those air very similar from a user experience standpoint on their very low bar. Easy tweak tests. Teammate teasers on outer envelopes. They work. Oh, they’re so important. They do? Yeah, that’s a good one example of a couple of good ones. I mean, for our for acknowledgements. Thank you. Gift receipt and close. Like, very clear. Okay, this is not an appeal, right? All right, we’ve got for acquisition. Oh, God, we’re off. We’re off on your own time. But I’ve always wondered about this, because when I see these things, and it’s not at all what I do know. What’s a good Christy? What’s a good acquisition? Uh, what do you call these on? The outer sabelo Theo. Good acquisition. What kind of depends on what’s inside or the organization. But anything that talks about matching gift urgent. Well, urgent. Open immediately that work. Sure, people respond to that Second notice reminder. Special gift enclosed for free gift. Yeah, free gift and clothes. I could notice that I didn’t notice. We’Ll stamp like reminders. They have the stamp it rough. It looks like it was damned. Yeah, Looks like it was a hand written. Oh, anything. Anything that looks like a human touched it. We call it the power of the paper clip because like, you can’t machine that. So if it anything that feels like humans have touched it will automatically get more attention. But it is a machine printing that Oh, yeah, but it looks like you’re just trying to create the experience of life came off their desk. But you people believe that mean yes, we’re not wear not I do believe this stuff like a human actually wrote that or somebody’s coming. Somebody had a stamp on ink pad and a stamp. I think it depends on the size of the organization. Like somebody’s probably not going to believe it as easily from AARP, but they will believe it from their local U S P c A. Well, so it just depends. Yeah. Alright. I’m really surprised that second notice open open urgently. Renewal is a very powerful word as well. So having renew does well yeah, renew your membership right on the teeth. Er, something like that. Okay, we’re hearing everything. You’re turning those. The winner was the other one Free. Free? Yeah. Just just a word. Free Well attached to something so free. Some very powerful words. Just free. Just wait. Just wait, OK? We got another, like, two minute and a half or so two minutes. What? What else? What else? Questions. Other question. They were good. Oh, gosh. You know, I feel like a lot of people had questions. Agent about sort of what it meant to take their online. Thank you. Experience offline. Dahna Few. There was a lot of questions about printing and paper. Yeah, favorite. Everyone’s favorite. Well, cause some of its first. So some organizations like conservation organizations are very paper free on DH. So but having the numbers that actually show that people who give to receive packages to acknowledgment gifts are better donors than people who don’t can make the case to the board members or to your CFO or whoever else that, like we really should think about this at some level. Maybe we’re not mailing every online donor. Maybe it’s not five dollar donors or ten dollar donors, but maybe at the fifty dollar donors level, those folks are like, worth that added investment. So having that numbers to back it up is really helpful, and any time you could decrease the time to second gift is huge on. Typically, most non-profits see one gift a year on average, whatever time of year that is. If it’s not sustainers. If you khun, change that twelve months between first and second gift to two months between first and second gift because people you have a greater lifetime value and hyre retention we’re seeing, I mean, especially with new donors, because they’re giving habits haven’t been cemented. Get we’re seeing anywhere from forty five to sixty five percent hyre retention rates across the board and hyre values. So it’s amazing. Okay. Okay. Christy, I’m gonna give you last words, like, fifteen seconds of motivation about, you know, making them love you. Oh, gosh. Well, that’s a lot of pressure. I know. You know, I think that if you don’t know where to start, just say thank you. Say thank you every way you can say it sincerely and say in a way that really means a lot to the folks who have given you their time, their money, their actions, whatever that looks like. It really goes a long way to improve your donor’s experience. All right, that was Chrissy hyre. She’s vice president of Innovation, Chapman, cubine and Husky. And sitting next to me is Brenda Homes, Vice president, Digital services Also at Chapman cubine, Cassie. And you are with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen Auntie Si twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. This interview, Like all of ours this year brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Come see. Ch is in sponsoring brovey radio. That is a great question to bring them when you bring that back to back to back to the main office way. We’LL do that. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you. Next week, Google grants with the head of Google. Add grants Michelle her Tato, also from nineteen. Auntie Si. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Pursuant online Tools for small and midsize non-profits. Data driven technology enabled Tony dahna em a slash pursuing capital P. Wagner CP is guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made Easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A Creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternate network e-giving Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network? Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned Potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. 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