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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with quadra tano pia, if i saw that you missed today’s show happy, healthy non-profit beth cancer returns with co author eliza sherman, and their new book is the happy, healthy non-profit they urge you to make employees well being as important as organizational performance that was recorded at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference and your job descriptions have the carpenter is co author of the book the talent development platform and she’s got advice for your often rushed through lifted off the web job descriptions hint don’t do it. Originally aired on september fifteenth of last year on tony’s take two my new plan e-giving video responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We be spelling dot com here’s the happy, healthy non-profit and this book that they’re about to talk about is number nine in the amazon non-profit books category. Let’s get this thing, but just by the darn thing skyrocketed. Let’s. Get it up to number eight. Let’s. Get it? No, we get it upto one by this book the happy, healthy non-profit hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference this is also part of ntc conversations. We are in san jose, california, at the convention center and with me now are beth cantor and eliza sherman. They’re session topic is happy, healthy non-profit using tech for healthier work and life we’re going to get to that very shortly. First have to highlight our swag item for the interview and that is this papal very fine crafted would a pencil those of you just on ntcdinosaur say shins and the audio stream i’m sorry you can’t see the fine craftsmanship and the way this is burned in the papal logo burned into the woods like i used to have a little wood burning kit when i was a cub scout and we usedto carve nasty words and our names but more nasty words independent to wood pieces, and then burned them before our parents saw them and then also there’s this nice papal book notebook very handy for keeping track of your wellness and health goals and your and your achievement toward them. This goes into our swag pile for the day, second day here at ntc and ah, what a not so subtle transition i made teo happy health and wellness. The two of you are working on a book. Beth, eliza and what’s. The book is called happy healthy non-profit is that right? Yes. Strategies for impact without burnout, judges for impact. Without burnett, when can we expect this book it will publish in october. Okay, your co authoring eyes there. Another author. We should know the two of you. Okay, now, beth, you’re last year and t c you were here talking about walking as part of work. Not as not as part of your health and wellness regimen, but working, walking at work. You have a you have a wellness kick? Yes, you know well, that was the genesis for this book. Because it’s not just about individual wellness. It’s also about well being in the workplace. Thie organizational health. Yes. So i see we’re talking to an organizational level now. Yes. And not just health, not just health. Because, you know, health is important that’s, physical energy, but well being, the well being of the organization, well being of the staff, which translates translates into the well being of the organization and its stakeholders. Okay, eliza, now i neglected teo properly introduce either of you. I’m sorry. Beth is a master trainer, speaker, author and blogger at beth blawg, and eliza is tech wellness advocate tequila’s on dh, author of eleven books. This will be your twelve, right. This is the eleventh, so ten, but she’s, just such a great writer and collaborator, i just i just thought it was twelve. You have an interesting this deeply are all your books about health and wellness? Actually, all of my books are about business or the internet. In fact, i started the first woman on internet company back in the nineties, and so i wrote a couple of books, cyber girl books about the internet for women, and this came out of my interest in tech wellness, which is obviously an important part of our lives because of everything we’ve been doing with all of our gadgets. And i got in touch with bath and she’s into the walking and she’s into all of the sleep habits, and we combined it all and that’s what the book is going to be. Okay, wait, hold on. Beth tech wellness. What is tech wellness? What do you mean by that? Well, if you think about the fact that the technology we use has gotten smaller and portable and nobody has taught us how to use it well, so now we’re all getting strained next. Strange eyes, strained brains. So hold it like this. Yeah, like that. Like it like that. Try to do that. Pose that’s a good pose. It’s hard. Maintain it is. Okay, what we’re gonna say back. Oh, i forgot. I know what i want to know why. I also want to say that lisa and i have actually known each other for twenty years. You have no rights. Okay? Out of the blue oversignt no, no, because, you know, i sort of had a front row seat at the creation of this field, the non-profit tech field. And so when i was looking around doing web stuff for non-profits back in the early nineties, i ran into at least met her at one of ah, web girls meet ups. Okay. Okay. So let’s go. All right, so we want we want tohave happy, healthy non-profit by having happy, healthy people eyes that. Okay, so you have some strategies, i presume for well, especially from you gaining more from technology with fewer intrusions. So we is that the way we start there, with sure minimizing intrusions in our tech beings? Sure. Okay. From what kind of lens? Of of the individual. Okay versus the organization. Okay, so, for starters, i stop sleeping with my iphone. Okay. You had your iphone goes to your head. Yes, i know. I used it is an alarm clock, but i had no impulse control. Teo actually not look at all my social media feeds before bed, and that disrupts your sleep. It disrupts your circadian rhythms and if you don’t get good sleep, you’re not good to anybody. You’re worthless, you’re worthless that air sleep by keeping your iphone out of the bedroom and bask in your office alarm clock. Sabelo well, i did a sony said, no, no, i don’t want radioshack final radio shack. What about one with that? Wakes me up with pulsating light fancy. And then i set up a charging station at the house. So as soon as i walk in the door, my entire family has to put their devices at the door, plug it in, and then if they want to use it, they have to walk through the whole house and think about the fact that they’re going to use the device. Ok, that is similar to me to what we learned in the italian, my italian background eat less by not putting the big platter of food on the plate. Exactly. You keep the platter in the kitchen and plate there and then and you have to get up and go and, you know, attempted by the beautiful sausage in the pasta that wolber so close, it’s. Just a fork. It’s a fork length away. Okay, okay. Makes a lot of sense now. I was just reading something about the iphone. Then the new iphone that’s going to be technologically equal to the six but smaller inside were like, five. They’re changing something about the blue, the blue tones, the blue light and the way you dropped your sleep. There’s a blue shades or something that that makes it hard. It’s a strain on your eye or that you know, but it’s it’s not so much. Just it’s. That but it’s also, if you read your work emails right before you go to sleep, you’re gonna have stress dreams about it. I mean, you know, you should have a better night time rich team that allows you to go to sleep calmly and wake up refreshed about a better morning routine. That too i do. I’m trying. I try not to look at my email now, my phone is not well. It is today now, because when i travel yeah. When you travel, you travel you. Use a little little nightstand radio club. Now, i use my phone, but i keep it. Try to keep it a faraway so have to get up out of bed. Okay? And i’ve conditioned myself to say don’t don’t do it right now. The morning routine that’s a tough one. No, i have one. Guess what it is. Well, it’s not checking your email? No, i don’t know. I walked five thousand steps, so you get out of bed. Well, i shower and, you know, show kids to school, you know? And then i walked my five thousand steps or your coffee drinker. I make coffee, i meditate while the coffee’s brewing okay, three short meditations. Yeah. Three minutes, three minutes. Cycle right. Five thousand steps on dh then start my day. Okay, let’s, turn to release it. Now, before you did something like the cookers hyre well that’s supposed to be related to the circadian rhythms. Exactly. The blue light affects your brain and its tricks your brain into thinking it’s daytime. And that is something that so subtle and none of us are realizing it’s happening. Now what i was going to say about the iphone is they’re taking that out over there, changing the shade in the new, smaller iphone that’s still going to be technically so all that does is change the light that doesn’t change. What beth was saying is that you’re compulsively checking all your messages and getting sucked into the tensions and stress of work keep the phone away from the bed, you don’t get it right, and i don’t need it in the morning. You don’t it’ll be there, you know, there are things in the world will be trying to make space in your life for reflection and contemplation and some were somewhere in this always on, always on, always thinking, always doing world yeah, okay. All right. What else? Elisa, you give us one self care so self care is important. So we were talking about technology. But there are so many other things that have to do with taking care of yourself. So tack, wellness is one of them getting good sleep. We’ve talked about movement. The fact that we sit so many hours of every day at work almost all of us are trapped behind our desk. So beth has been really good at training me at doing this i considered the computer for hours on end and never budge. She forces me to get up, we walk the halls, we walk around the block, you live in the same house. Are you sharing a home together way? No, no, what do you know when when we’re doing princessa presentations together and we’re traveling together working on the book, working weekends, right? Yeah, so we’ve been working a lot of the book and we get sucked in as well to the book, but then she is incredibly disciplined to get up and get her steps going, so i’ve gone from two thousand steps to hitting ten thousand every damn with her when i’m not with her, i’m not as disciplined, but you have reminders you can use your technology to remind you to be mindful of using it or to remind you to stop what you’re doing and get up and move around, or two meditate toe, listen to some guided meditations that are free on your iphone or on your android phone, and take that times or use your technology to advantage you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Now, is this a simple is you referring to just setting an alarm to remind you to get up? It could be, but there are apse. There are acts that will remind you. All right. So they just have a few apple fit ball fit. Bolt? Yes, old fitted bold because actually is a plug in on your browser that will ding every fifteen minutes and show you exercises. Actually, pictures of exercises step by step that you khun dio i can still be productive if i stop my work every fifteen minutes. Yes, yes, yes, you can. It’s it’s a different kind of interruption because you’re what you’re doing is training your attention. Have you ever heard of a book called eighteen minutes a day? You’re pregnant. You can tell me about the last time. I think. You know, you have a really good memory. Yeah, i think so. Let’s, look back. We can check the video, but i think yes, you told me about it. Okay, but go ahead, summarize because everybody doesn’t have my memory. Give us well. And this is more if you’re cliff notes. Right? Right. So let technology makes us distracted. And what you’re doing is training your awareness, so if your beep yourself every hour and say to yourself and my own task, am i doing that most important task? You’re actually trained yourself to think that way, right? Right? Staying on task versus you know, i yeah, somehow i ended up, you know, in an endless loop of youtube videos, couto they’re very nice people, but, you know, it could be a little distracting. Yes, they have a big president like, i have to have two floor here, but it could be a little distracted, right? How did that happen? But if i have a little bit of a reminder, i’m not present, i’m somehow i wandered down this path. I don’t know how let me get back to where i need to know. It’s changing bad habits it’s becoming aware of your bad habits and changing them is being really conscious, mindful of how you’re using the technology and making those changes consciously making those changes because if nobody is, they’re nudging you if i mean we could be accountability buddies to each other, i might say to beth beth, you’re on your phone at bedtime, but if if nobody is there, at least your technology can remind you and make yourself more conscious and aware. Because once you’re aware you can do something about it and they wear. This is important too, because the technology provides monitoring. Like i can look down, i can say, well, i’ve only had twenty seven hundred steps so far. I better get moving. Okay, for sure that a simple benefit, but yes, the search search. Ok, it does everything okay? We name any other apse for wellness. Well, there’s a desk desk, yogi is one for your computer that will help you pull that bolt and yogi. Okay, there, spire spike. Oh, that’s a wearable it’s unbearable zubair aspire u s p i r yes, fire it’s a device. You either talk in here or in your pants and your brawl or your pants, and it measures your breath and it’s based on your breath patterns. It tells you whether you’re calm tents are you or you’re focused and it sending data to your phone. So i mean, it will tell you if you’re tense and so it’s a reminder to a nudge toe. Take a deep breath. You’re tense. Upset? Yeah, alright moment. There’s so if you’re in the meeting with your boss and things in your annual evaluation is not going well, you can say, well, my bride’s beeping i gotta stop fired-up spire was telling me, buy bras buzzing, you know? Well, i can’t have any more i can’t have any more flat attend. Well, what what it is is helping you with, you know, emotional intelligence of self awareness and knowing what your reactions are so you can then manage them and be intentional about it. Okay? That’s the awareness. Yeah. Intentional intentionality. Okay, what else we got? Oh, moment there’s the moment at which tells you how more okay, moments where tio, check your it tells you how many times you’ve been looking at your iphone. I have that really embarrassing. You haven’t mastered that. So how many times through the day today, i astronomical. Are you over? A hundred? Probably is. I mean, well, yeah, you use it for so many days, sequential things. I look at the time of day sometimes, you know, that’s over and over. But then but then there is mail on your facebook wear. How embarrassing, you know? Well, i was i was consciously trying to in this might somewhere because i’m a social media person to consciously think what i’m on social media and my butt being intentional and they getting stuff done are just wind this lee scrolling through the feet and saying what everyone else is doing. So how much time in my wasting on facebook and how much time i actually getting stuff done with her? Same thing? I mean, they’re also short looking another hundred fifty and it’s a way to procrastinate. Do you want to share your your number? What is gold with moment a moment you wantto make moment number, moment number i i actually just used it to t get a handle on it said he was embarrassed. It was embarrassing at first. What was i looked at like there was one like two hours of facebook today, two hours of yeah, but no cumulatively alt-right yeah, yeah, thank you, but also tell you how many times you looked at your phone. Do you remember how many times you were checking? Oh, you know, she’s not going to tell you that i’m going to tell you that i should tell you i can’t remember tell you her cholesterol numbers before i know it was like three hundred eighty years for eighty or something. Yeah, great. Well, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Three. Ninety nine, ninety four hundred. Okay. It’s one. Fifty now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. That was from last year. Also. That’s. What? Got you on the walking? Yeah, four hundred. That was yes. Okay, our other ideas. Way wellness. Okay, let’s, go up to the aps. And when we started to talk about relationships in the workplace, okay, so we talk, you know, that does affect your emotional well being. So we talked a lot about techniques that you can use. Teo, you know, man it. How to say no. For example. Boundary setting down decent but foundry said on reset and enforcing forcing i think lots of people set boundaries and then they don’t get enforced. I had our excellent pia is yes, that’s true. Given those i thought we were getting into the session i was looking at was, like, fifteen minutes. Ok? Yes, that it happens. You have these things in your mind. But you never. You never tell them to anybody, so nobody else knows and your boundaries get trampled and you don’t say no, you say? Yeah, how the first thing you say is yes, i’ll do that. Yes, i think you’re thinking. Are you okay? Yeah. Now. Okay, let’s, give some of the tips. So how do we enforce our boundaries? You say now we got to buy the but you’re going to say by the book, but you use it. You say nufer out on non-profit it was right. No way this little exercise around practicing feeling what no feels like in your throat. So i’ll say, eliza, we jump off a cliff. No, come on, alisa. You’re really good at jumping off cliffs. No, but why? I’m too busy right now. I have a full plate, but thank you for asking, okay? It was was this one act play festival, which is what is that? Well, we’re just just practicing saying no, and then and overcoming objections and if people practicing practicing and and also coming up with really legitimate reasons, because people want to hear a reason they don’t like to take no, they don’t want to take no for an answer. So come up with your reasons are and value those ok, i’ve heard a strategy? I don’t know necessarily related to boundaries. But you people want to hear. Yes. So you thie answer is yes, but even though everybody knows but is the universal no gator yeah, here. Yes, yes, yes, i will do that. But i won’t do it until tomorrow. Or yes, there’s that technique as well. Okay, is that is that bonem cards that make way didn’t make the book? I mean, our book is really just learning to say no and benefiting from saying on being okay with saying no so here’s another technique and sort of down the my mindfulness path, if you will drawling, meditative, drawling something called zen tangles. So rather than zoning out on your phone zen out with drawling so it’s actual it’s the meditation technique technique demonstrate this one your swag we have are going she’s so good at they’re people. So you now you’re gonna have to describe it for listeners because everybody does not have the benefit of the video. I need a pen. Of course. Give me the paper would burn. Oh, is that so gorgeous? What a gorgeous pan. The wood burning. I’m just gonna have to go. Go to their booth and hear what they’re doing. Zen zen circles with no it’s god’s entangles. Okay, okay. It’s, meditative drawing. Okay. And you’re usually doing on the small piece of artwork so you can complete it in less than a half hour. So we draw. You gotta do the cliff notes version four dots on the page. You connect them four dots. You drew a rectangle, i draw a rectangle. I then i draw a scribble or tangle. And then the next part is to fill it in with repetitive patterns in silence. Okay, stop now! Show that to the camera. So a rectangle than her squiggle and that we’re filling it in with repetitive vertical lines. She’s chosen right to write and keep on changing it. Okay, my head feels and or can i could? You could do circles or whatever, but the idea is, it helps your focus. You’re telling it’s intuitive there’s no right or wrong answers. And what it’s doing? Is it’s really lighting up a different side of her brain? Then you are in front of the screen. Is this research based we have researched? Approved? Yes. Yeah. It’s, therapeutic art. This is their feet in guarding the cars and houses, drawing the courthouses. Yes, about that. Oh, it could be that. Tell us about that. I don’t know. I like to make little court. I mean, i’m no artist naturally. But i thought you literally through no, i draw cars and houses. And i thought you threw carson. Elsa? What? What is this called? Xan. Tangle. Entangle? Yes. When i said is this better than drawing? Okay? Cars and houses. You know that i draw when i’m there. I mean that’s, my there’s mine, there’s there’s my own u do that over and over again. Well, i’ll fill it in sometimes. You know, sometimes a shingle house like that. How you do it might be bricks, you know, i might make it a stucco. Ah, it could be a plaster. Which would be no, you no, those are the main ones. And then i feeling the roof, of course, usually tar shingles. I don’t like the stucco roofs, and i don’t really like slate roofs either. So i do the the national sabat are there things? Do you do? This is there is my house. Relax, say, to relax or while you’re bored? Are you not to relax? I’m not paying attention if you’re doodling, which is a very different part of your brain, you’re losing its not enjoying this. You’re not, you know, dahna screen doing this? No, i’m not so it’s a different part of great. I might be on the ground on easy phone call, you know, a casual phone call like with friends and not business. I think i pretty well. So you’ve been in a bookstore recently. Have you seen, like adult men in the bookstore recently recently? Yeah, i was in barnes and noble. Okay, so, have you seen all the adult coloring books i have? Not. So this is the hot new trend? Yeah. Wait. But that means that we’ve grown up coloring books, not dahna way. Don’t bother. Although there is a swear e coloring book, we won’t say those among terrestrial radio. Now, don’t get in trouble with my am and fm affiliate stations. No, of course not. Like you would have two years ago. You know, of course not. All right, right. So these are adult themed right coloring book. Not a mean of a non sexual nature. They’re they’re they’re meditative. Drawings? They’re flowers. They’re butterflies, whatever. Highly detailed, though that’s. What? That was it’s different than a child. One very highly. Let’s. Go back to my course is a research backing up? Yes. Therapeutic art thieves entangles there are yes. Entangles. Okay, meditative art, art therapy. You can look at a dog clolery cubine google it. Everybody knows art therapy. Like yeah, yeah, yeah, same thing, same thing entangles all right. And adult coloring books, adult coloring book and there’s some right here in this sum. And this exhibit blackbaud blackbaud has them with pencils. In fact. Other says, i’m not blackbaud handup who had the pencils and the colored and it wasn’t black there’s three but there’s a thumb up your lady was upleaf saturday’s swag pile had coloring pencils. Very nice. Find pencils. You know that the adult coloring book trend has caused a color pencil shortage. All right? Yeah. There aren’t enough colored pencils produced in the world. Yes. Not anymore. Not anymore. They’re not. They’re doing putting extra shifts in the factory, and they want the big sets of one hundred fifty different colors. Right? You’re you’re young and you’re full spectrum? Yes, exactly. Red orange. Yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet, the rainbow, you know, but you gotta have the full spectrum. All right, let’s, let’s, get back to our wellness. We were in the office that can put us in the office. All these. What do you have? Office. We talked about boundaries, nandi on the office, standing and sitting what’s. The combination there’s, an ergonomic combination of twenty minutes standing eight minute sitting in two minutes stretching and moving around it’s, twenty minutes sitting a minute, standing two minutes stretching a minute. Standing. Yes, it. Yes, as long as you’re breaking up the siting. Okay. Okay. Well, sandy or treadmill desks for movement while you’re healed. Now, i’ve seen motorized desk that are both. Yeah, i’m standing and and sitting there, vera desk. There will be a narrow desk. Very desk because they have lovers and they can raise them. E i saw that at south by okay. Okay. I want one. All right. You could have you could have. I have the old one with the lover. Yeah. That’s those air, those air, certain stops. The details. Yeah. You want the motor where’s unlimited stopping, right? And you don’t potential and, you know i actually have to buy a fancy desk. I’ve seen non-profit people use cartons and music stands okay. You know, let’s get people a decent death. Yeah. Or even on amazon? Yeah. I’m not saying you’re advocating that, but no, but let’s not have people standing standing on creates and no elevating their desk with milk milk boxes. You know, let’s, let’s get you people, but some krauz organizational policy offering that as an option if you want to standing and encouraging it or even a community one have a standing desk there that people take turns and they encourage each other. Okay, it’s, your turn. It’s returned eight minutes, eight minutes and that’s. Another thing you know, going into the office. That design and layout of the office can encourage or be nudges too certain healthy happy behaviors. For example, walking trails inside the office. They have that robert wood johnson foundation walking trails in the office. Right. They lay out here if you do this track around the office. It’s this many steps. Take a break. That’s not you know, i’m not joking. Alright, i believe you, you know sign it. Don’t take the elevator. Take the stairs. Two up, one down. You know, there’s a one up, two down, but even even doing something as simple as like, if your workplace offer soda in the refrigerator or put it down, i don’t have it. Don’t have it at eye level. Put the water in eye level dahna very simple stuff the baskets of fruit within reach through no chocolate doughnuts, right? Right, i’m ok. I’m feeling bad about something that just occurred to me that we said earlier again for people who don’t have the video, we were talking about how to use your howto hold your phone and i said like this, not like that. Well, that’s no value to people who are just listening to ntc conversations or non-profit radio, they don’t have the video, not on my youtube channel. Riel, oriel tony martignetti so they don’t have the benefit of video. I could do that. You cannot no, i like give shout out some, you know, best knows i’m kidding, lisa, i hope you know. No, you’re good, you’re good to chat about what was my point. Oh howto hold, explain how you’re alone, right? So so instead of your neck is down and your shoulders are hunched and it’s close to sixty pounds of pressure on your non-technical on the cervical spine. Yes. So it’s close to your body that’s not good. Hold it out a little bit forward. And if you don’t want to look like a geek, you khun sort of put your guests want to make a little more human looking you put you, you cup your elbow into your other hand and you’re sort of holding it up like that. You’re walking like this, you know you’re not supposed to be doing while walking. No, no. That’s distracted one thing you know, they’re not gonna do that when you set me up. No, but you know, that’s. All right. That’s, another issue. There’s been a thirty five percent increase in accidents do to distract and why i’m not surprised you walk the streets of new york city now because you’re on the west coast now. But anyway, i walk the streets of the east coast of new york city, and you have to you have to get out of people’s way, right? Because they’re not watching in tokyo. They have a texting lane in the sidewalk. No, they do. Where you can walk without a walker? Yeah, that’s. I wouldn’t do that because you get bumped into suppose you, but is there one for each direction yet? Is that a yeah? Yeah, is it too late? There was an article in the guardian recently to a really bizarre i think we should just about a fire handup ratify our environ. Exactly what exactly does that enables? Yeah, so so enabling modification to know, but modify your environment in different ways that create a relax using space that give you these cues that trigger your brain to say, oh, going into work, it’s not so stressful because i’ve got some really good lighting i’ve got maybe aromatherapy or some nice plants, i’ve got an environment that i’ve created at my workplace that makes me actually calmer, more relaxed, excellent didn’t even have to ask for your ideas. Were you right or or workplace? Where? There’s communal space where i can connect with other people and inspires collaboration? Yeah and that’s playful play way at work, but we need to have in our little in our shared space that makes it playful toys, adult court on always white ports and all. Clolery yes. Puzzles, markers, a communal table. Stress balls, balls. Yes, robots. One of one of the people you talked about has robot robot. Yes. Okay, cool. Yesterday we had did you see the group? I’m trying to see them. Corner shop. They’re here they have squeeze balls that are fruits today’s yesterday swags pile which got stolen overnight. But we had to squeeze eggplant. Yes, i have squeezed tomato. Some guests i could tell, you know, whether they were under stress or not, or whether you put there squeeze toy down, but they have fruits and vegetables out of squeeze toys. All right, buy-in we got to leave it there. I think we’ve from barton people. Yes, we have a deal. Ok. We only just talked about very little of what’s in the book. Well, of course you go by the book. The book is going to be called. I don’t know the subtitle of it. I’ll let a little lead to say at this time but the title is going to be happy. Healthy non-profit strategies for impact without burnout published by wiley wiley and coming out october of this year. Twenty sixty? Yes. Look for the book. Maybe we’ll have you on when it may. Well, have you want again? Keep that mind. Beth cancer. I may not remember so right. You know me better write. You can always find it happy, healthy non-profit dot org’s. Okay. Okay. Beth cantor out. Master trainer, speaker, author and blogger. You know she’s at best blogged. And lisa sherman, a wellness attack wellness advocate and, uh, multi book author as as beth is. Well, this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference. Thank you. Wish, ewing, we’re showing you wishing you health and wellness in your office place. Thanks so much for being with us. You can preorder that book right now on amazon. It is available. Let’s. Shoot those numbers up your job descriptions coming up first. Pursuant, they’ve got a free webinar. Best kept secrets for upgrading donors. Well, secrets are going to be so best kept after the ribbon our wednesday september twenty first, one o’clock eastern, you’ll learn the latest don’t a research keys to advancing donor elation, ships and surprising strategies to upgrade your hidden gems. Tony dot m a slash pursuant webinar needed capital p and a capital w and that’s, where you go for registration, we be spelling spelling bees for non-profit rid fund-raising if you want to bring millennials into your good work, this is perfect, not grandma’s spelling bee you can check out their video, which has examples of the live music, the dancing, the comedy fund-raising and spelling these air terrific millennial events, usually in a bar or restaurant, and they’re very fun video is that we be spelling dot com now tony steak too. My latest video is don’t be in the woods on planned e-giving there’s a lot that small and midsize non-profits can do with planned e-giving i explained how to get started it’s at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two here is have a carpenter with your job descriptions. I’m very pleased that heather carpenter is with me. She is a phd was a non-profit manager for ten years. She’s, now assistant professor in the school of public non-profit and health administration at grand valley state university. She teaches grad and undergrad courses in non-profit management, financial management fund on profit technology, leadership and human resources management. The book that brings our two non-profit radio is co authored with terra qualls. And it is the talent development platform putting people first in social change organizations published by josy bass this year on twitter she’s at heather carpentier, which is at heather carpenter. But take off that last are have the carpenter. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, tony that’s. A pleasure. You’re calling from grand valley university. Where’s that michigan. Right war in grand rapids, michigan, which is on the west side of the state. Okay, okay. That was the summer there in grand rapids. It was really nice. We have a great summer. I’ll bet a little harsher winters, but yeah, no, but you do have harsh winters. Yes. Okay, heather, our job descriptions he’s often get very, very short shrift, don’t they? Yes. Yes. Well, having worked in non-profits for many years and done h r and operations, i know how busy we get. And often, when people leave organizations, we scramble and pulled together what we have on dh and send out a job description that is often outdated and hasn’t been updated in a few years. Or sometimes, i think even pulled off the web. Yes, yes. You’ve seen that? Yes. Ok, not that you’ve done that when you were leading your non-profit. I understand, but i think it’s i think that’s also a pretty common practice. Why do we need to focus more on job descriptions? Well, job descriptions are really an important part of helping an employee to understand their roles and responsibilities within the organization. It also helps to track employee and volunteer performance and success. And this is ah living document, right way. Need to keep these current as job responsibilities change. Yes, we recommend that non-profits update their job descriptions, actually on an annual basis. Okay, okay. Sabat do you do you think that poor job descriptions lead tio? I don’t know hyre turnover or lower morale? What consequences do you think result from not having accurate descriptions? Yes, i i agree with your assertion. We’ve found that a couple of things can happen with outdated Job descriptions 1 that it’s for a new hyre they might not really fully understand the role let’s say hypothetically, speak about how when organizations lose employees and they have someone coming in and they used a job description. That’s out data from the labs it’s not clearly showing the response the accurate responsibility so the person might get burned out pretty quickly, finding out they have a lot of additional latto responsibilities, or maybe they don’t even have the adequate qualifications for for the rial responsibilities. So the job or, if someone’s been in a position for a few years, there’s what we call the pile on effect, where often more and more responsibilities added, but that’s not actually reflected in the job description or in compensation so so employees can get and volunteers can’t burn out that way, and then sometimes people become overqualified for the job or might be overqualified when they come in. The job description is accurate. Does this apply also to organizations that are mostly volunteers? Should should be job descriptions for volunteers? Oh, yes, absolutely, we believe that that will our book applies to not just paid staff volunteers as well, and we actually have sample job descriptions for board board positions and key volunteers as well as come common staff within various non-profit organizations like your executive director, development director on bury the book is loaded with lots of resource is sample job descriptions but goes way beyond that just job responsibilities. And forms, you know, and we’re just taking one piece of the book and talking about job description, but there’s a lot more to it. And the thing is just loaded with but templates and resource is yes, thank you. I really wanted it to be as practical as possible, having worked in the nonprofit sector for many years ourselves, it’s more of a workbook where organizations can pick and choose the chapters that they need the resource is from. But it is a whole platform. If an organization decides to go through the process for from everything from understanding the organizational learning and professional development culture to actually assessing stats, professional development and creating professional development goals, an objective tied to the strategic als of the organization. All right, so where do we start this job? Description process. I mean, i know who it starts with its doctor, the supervisor. How does that what is the what the person need to do to get started? Well, the supervisor should really look at the position itself and often there’s different philosophies on job descriptions. And our our philosophy is that the organization, the supervisor, should build the job around the position and not the person because people change andi really, to really get an understanding of what is needed to advance the organization forward. So we have something called a proficiency mapping cool and are in our book where supervisors can really identify the called common confidences that the knowledge, skills, abilities and other characteristics needed to perform the job and then rape those competencies on different proficiency levels. We use a proficiency level scale created by the national institute of health, and they’ve been doing this type of job description, worked for many, many years and really getting understanding of what level that the position and the responsibilities you need to be at when we talked earlier a few minutes ago about outdated job descriptions common, another problem with outdated job description says they’re not often at the level that the position needs to be on a smaller non-profits with great to have people who could do lots of different responsibilities, but sometimes we have very high expectations that someone in entry level type job might be more responsibilities, say, manager or leading the organization through some sort of process when that’s not necessarily the right level for that. Job you have these 5 proficiency levels, fundamental novice, intermediate advanced and an expert, yeah, way provide definitions and also example words and responsibilities at each level. I like to tell you, i jump pretty quickly from fundamental expert on i think if i’d done something once, that makes me an expert, so i don’t know if that fits within your construct, but like, one time i’m not the expert the first time, but after i’ve done it one time, i consider myself an expert and that’s cause that’s cost me a lot of money and, like home repairs and things, but i can’t get around it. That’s that’s but that’s probably not probably fit within your your definitions well, generally the expert and advance our our our director level positions on responsibilities. So at the executive director, we would hope a most size organizations that the person, the person holding that position would have advanced on expert level. But we understand that at the lower level positions the coordinators, the entry level positions that they’re more at the novice and the intermedia level. And yes, i mean, we’ve found that it’s helpful, starting with the supervisor to create these confidences and proficiency levels on dh, then down the line. Wei have employees assess themselves and not do a real comparison over the competencies profession? Okay, yes, we’re gonna get that. So so after the supervisors part, then then what’s next in creating these optimal job descriptions, the next step is really getting documenting the employees responsibilities, and they don’t see what the supervisor has done. But if you do have someone in that particular position just making sure that all the responsibilities are are documented because the supervisor might not have a son of everything that employees doing. But obviously, if it’s a new position, or if the job description ever been done before, then they would have the supervisor just do the proficiency mapping. Ok, ok, but but the the next step now is the is the is the employee e-giving their input into what their responsibilities are around the competencies and the proficiency levels. Yeah, the next up is just the employees identifying their their responsibility. Okay, a faster proficiency levels. Quite yet just for the job description itself. It’s really making sure that all the responsibilities are identified and the supervisor is really the one that making sure that all the proficiency levels are identified. All right, ok, ok. And we mentioned these competencies. Can you give us some examples of competencies? Sure. Before you do that, i want to tell you about the process that we took to to identify ten core competencies for non-profit managers like holly and i actually did some some national surveys and looked at literature around training needs of non-profit managers and assassin what their confidence cesaire needed. So this is really backed and research that we identify the ten course set of common confidence ease that non-profit managers possessed. They’re very general there everything from advocacy to communications, marketing, financial management to fun development hyre we also have human resource is way also in the book go through the process of has helping organizations create their own sub confidence ease, because since the time core competencies are very general, we know that each organization is different in their culture and each position and as well as department, it’s organization, house, apartment, that they have their own core competencies that are important to that organization. So we’ve also provided of examples of different size organizations and the subcontinent use that. They have so well for example, intercultural confidence he is a very important sub competency for many organizations, two working, working well under pressure are working with certain population, so we’ve we’ve worked with various organizations and their different types of missions require different competency. So we worked with homeless organization last semester, and they, you know, they require their staff to have confidence he’s in understanding people who have housing have challenges, okay, let’s see, we have just about a minute before, before we take a break and then we’ll continue. I should do this. We haven’t mentioned the board should be job descriptions for board positions. Definitely we have. We have a sample job descriptions for board chair board treasurer, board secretary on various board general boardmember on there’s a there’s. A lot of resource is not just in our book, but out there on the web is well for creating and managing board job descriptions. That’s an important piece we’ve we’ve done this process with all volunteer run organizations where it’s just the board teo organizations that have paid staff, maybe they’re smaller, they have all the board do their Job descriptions and then the 1 to two staff members that they have so it’s important that it’s not just a staff process that boardmember look at their job descriptions and revise them. Okay, let’s, go out for a break and when we come back, heather, of course we’ll stay with us and we’ll keep talking about your job descriptions, and then we’ll move to mapping, mapping you thies competencies and proficiency levels to the job description. Stay with us like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that or neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e. N e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals. Just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week, and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation. Top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m lawrence paige, no knee author off the non-profit fund-raising solution. I know. I say it every time. Maybe maybe you listeners get here. Tired of hearing me say this, but i wish lawrence would pronounce his last name. Panjwani he’ll be so much more beautiful than paige. No. Ni lawrence. I’ve said this a large his face. So no it’s it’s. Not like i’m going behind his back. And pandiani will be so beautiful. Lorenzo? Lorenzo panjwani okay, okay. Heather let’s. Move now. Tio mapping what is this? What is it? What is that? The mapping process that comes next? Well, this is the mapping process is really about revising the job description and making sure that it matches up with the responsibilities really, that are needed. We advise organizations to separate job responsibilities by the competency categories. So we often see job descriptions that have a whole long list of job responsibilities. But were our processes to separate them by category? Cory so that it’s clear on the difference competencies that are needed with that particular job. We also have the manager identified perfect since he loves based on the job responsibility, action words. And so this is where hyre this is the revision process, the different levels and making sure that the wording really matches up with the proficiency level so we might have a position that is hyre up than it needs to be or lower and can be a giant. Now you mentioned job responsibility, action words. What defined those for us? Well, the action words are provided in the proficiency mapping scale. So as we talked about before there’s five purpose into levels from fundamental awareness, novice, intermediate to advance and back first. And each of these have a different level, and we have action words that are associated with each level. So as i mentioned about the higher level positions, we have the dance level there there’s facilitating, leading liaising, managing and the expert level. We’re synthesizing. We’re training were troubleshooting. And so these hyre level action words are associated with hyre level job responsibilities. Okay, yeah. And that’s me. Well, i like to focus on the expert. You know, like i said, i would skip over novice, intermediate and advanced. I go right from fundamental to expert one one one one time. So i’ve gotten used to use those expert use those expert examples. That’s where? Just in my mind, that’s where i belong let’s. See? Okay, so in this job in the in this revision process now it’s, the employees and the supervisor working together, uh, well, family it’s the supervisor making sure that the job description is aligned because as much as we’d like to be an employee involved in the process, the next step in the talent development platform which i don’t have time to talk about here is the individual professional development assessment and that’s where an employee actually haserot their confidence season proficiency level. So it’s really helpful that they don’t see realign job description before that, that there going off of what they i think that they’re expertise is and their proficiency level is. And then that way, you could do an accurate comparison. So what the job requires. Okay, well, you might be surprised we might have time to get to assessment a little bit. We might be surprised. Um, now for the mapping, there are there’s having six steps. Andi don’t really have. You know, we don’t have time to go through all six of them, but help help us understand an overview of the process. A little more detailed. And then we have so far yeah, so, as i mentioned in the first step of separating the job responsibilities by competency category, you’ll see then if there’s gaps and if you’ll have competency categories that you’re not covering it’s amazing how many organizations that we’ve worked with through this process, where they are missing competencies for specific positions, like operations manager, or or the executive director where often maybe, you know hr is a part of the operations manager job, but it’s not really accurately included are reflected in the job description or the job responsibilities or information. Technology is often a part of someone’s job, but not necessarily included, so it really helped helps organization to identify gaps with responsibility and say, well, we don’t have anything in this competency category. So let’s, let’s talk about what we need to include, i see, okay, it strikes me that this whole process to is going to i guess you said it, but just is going to make sure that you’re not bringing in let’s say, entry level people and having expectations that are unreasonable for them in terms of responsibilities and competencies. Exactly way also talk about degree levels as well in compensation we worked with quite a few smaller non-profits that, like tio, take all the responsibilities that we, we provide his examples, and and use them to hyre their new entry level staff at the masters level were like, whoa, you know, let’s think about it’s entry level, do they really need a mask spurs or do they even need a bachelor’s for that regard? So this really helped to think through the position responsibilities that you need for the organization and ok, if i really need all those responsibilities and maybe it’s two positions, not one or i’m i think i’m being unrealistic with how many responsibilities that i’m requiring in this in this position. So having those sometimes difficult conversations about what’s realistic for the organization since restarting tio, we’re talking about the possibility of entry level employees what’s your feeling on starting people at at low salaries? Well, i’m a little biased because i advocate for living wages because i teach graduate students in a lot of them are often on the job market, either during their degree program are afterwards and it’s really disappointing to see them have to take very low wage starting jobs also research, so that it costs between seventy five to one hundred for fifty percent of its employees annual salary when they leave. And so what i’ve seen with my students and former employees is that bill, if they’re not getting adequate living wage compensation, then the leave within a few months and that actually costs the organization a lot of money organizations, i don’t think we often realize how much time and effort it takes toe post the new position to interview the people to do the training and that’s that’s money, and what will when in fact, we could pay a living wage and a good starting salary for entry level employees and have them stay longer even if they stay a year to that’s that’s better than the cost of done, leaving within a few months because they find a better opportunity that paste on better excellent, we gotta leave it there. Unbelievable! You were right. We didn’t have a chance to talk about assessment. You’re right, but you got it by the book it’s talent development platform she’s heather l carpenter, phd and you’ll find her on twitter at heather carpentier carpenter and take off that last are thank you very much. Other next week, data disruption and small data rocks. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and we’d be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We be e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is claire miree off sam lee boots is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez. On our music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot org’s young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. 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