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Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent happy halloween and shout out to my good friend larry bloom, who just finished the divorce our if you have not listened to the larry bloom show you should. It is cathartic and tender and heartfelt radio here on talking alternative dot com. Listen to the divorce our with larry bloom preceding our show last week on our show, we have i had ah recorded, sorry, we were with, um, larry sage of larry sharp of neo-sage, and he was talking about smart sales training strategies to kick start your fund-raising those were corporate sales lessons to help your non-profits fund-raising and the guest was larry sharp this week, we’re bringing back ah feature that i enjoyed very much. I’m looking savvy strategies for your job search a non-profit job seeker is going to get advice from our in house professional recruiter, paula marks, who is managing director at gilbert tweed international, and we’re going to talk to our job seeker about spiffing up her resume, emphasizing strengths, networking, interviewing, using social media, all to help you in your own job search, whether that is today, or sometime in the future and at tony’s, take two between guests. I’m going to talk about something that i’ve blogged about this week. Fundraisers should not piss off women, and i’ll tell you about an exciting conference is going to be a part of in new york in november, the next-gen charity conference. Our second guest today, is going to be one of the interviews from the chronicle of philanthropy from the national conference on philanthropic planning. A pre recorded interview with robert sharp had a cripple your career in five easy steps. So we’re all about your career on today’s halloween edition of tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. Duitz ding! You’re listening to the talking alternate network. E-giving dahna you hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 at aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m, we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on jobs, try to jeez and networking, come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelve at aqueduct racetrack for a Job fair, intending m 23, p m. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one geever. I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness can help you get back on track or start a new life in fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two eight six five nine to nine xero, or visit w w w died mind over matter. N y c dot com duitz are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back on the aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m joined in the studio by our recruiter for our recurring segment i’m looking and that is paula marks, managing director at gilbert tweet international from her website. The search process is like a spider spinning its web it’s important to think vertically and horizontally at the same time and to make all the unlikely connections, paula, as i said, managing director at gilbert tweet international her career in executive search spans nearly three decades prior to being an executive search consultant in nineteen eighty five, which is when she started, she had director level positions in corporate human resource is at bergdorf goodman, bonwit teller and lane bryant stores, where she developed staffing, knowledge and skills. Paula is our expert recruiter for the i’m looking segments, a feature that we do frequently on the show, and i’m glad that her practice and expertise brings paula back to tony martignetti non-profit radio welcome, paula. Thank you, tony. We’re working today with leonora scala, who is looking for a job in non-profits she’s joining us by phone? Paula, why don’t you introduce the audience to leonora. Hi, leonora. Good morning. Welcome. How you doing? I’m doing great. I think everyone would like to know how it is that we met because i think it says so much about how people should be connecting. Leonora and i bumped into each other in a doctor’s office, and we took long one look at each other from across a crowded room and thought, wow, we’re two fashionistas we need to know each other that and we’re through its true right, and we’ve developed a friendship and i’m working with leonora. And now, as she is actively looking for a job back to you, tony on leonora, you are your background is in all is all in for-profit work, but you’re you’re looking tio translate that experience into a non-profit career or at least job to get started. What makes you want teo? You have a personal story. Why don’t you share that? Why is it you want to bring your expertise to the non-profit community? Well, just recently my mom had some back surgery and he needed to go into rehab and me not knowing anything about anything about that. I i went to different peoples is over what was what good was bad, and they gave me a list of we have sent it to go. Teo and i started going in searching out the different ones and the ones that have found the best with a non-profit because they were able to utilize whatever they did, the money they made they made and just put it into the rehab center, i mean, everything, which is so fabulous and she’s obviously made a speedy recovery still has a long way to go, but yet made a speedy recovery, and i take that as part of being what the company wants, and i want to be able to get back to that. Yeah, that experience moved you to give to the non-profit community so exactly right in in very shortly, we’re goingto have you talking to paula because she’s the expert, but tell us what it is generally that you’re looking for in the non-profit community what type of work at i’m actually looking for some marketing and merchandising function planning because i’m very good about putting strategies together and making company’s money, and what better way to do that and be able? To generate some more and do better for the universe. And in just a minute and a half we have left or so before the break. Why don’t you acquaint us a little bit with your background? Ah, leonora. Sure. Um, i’m a season’s merchandising executive. I have experience in the consumer product industry, especially in the apparel accessories. Um, footwear business. I developed into end award winning merchandising strategies for new product introduction, some brand activation and generated some multi million dollar growth there. My experience is streaming product development in merchandising processes, treyz brand awareness and lee global procurement strategies. Okay, and i’m going to stop you there, paula, just the forty five seconds or so we have before the break that is all very corporate paula that can translate to a non-profit absolutely it is all applicable to not for-profit i’m absolutely ok. Well, we’re going to explore all of that after this break. Please stay with my in studio guest paula marks and leonora scala are non-profit job seeker. Stay with us after this break talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering the voice? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help yu wei take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set two one, two, nine six, four, three, five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine six, four three five zero two. We make people happy. Duitz hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back on the host of tony martignetti non-profit radio with paula marks in the studio and our job seeker this week on the i’m looking feature is leonora scalia. Paula explained how this very intense and exemplary corporate resume and experience of leah nora’s can translate to a non-profit opportunity job. I feel that today we very much overlooked people who have what i call ground up experience or a broad base part of the experience, the expression, leonora, i don’t mean you have a broad based on things for me to say, yeah, you want the wisecracks pulling its supposed taking over the show you believe this already with it wouldn’t be the first time hey, she has all of the necessary skills to build a position in any kind of organisation. She’s got the finance she’s got the planning she’s got the merchandising, she understands consumers she’s, well educated, graduated fordham university, so she’s got everything going from her for her, and i think that as we mature in our careers, the pyramid should get narrower and that’s the direction that we’re headed. We don’t want somebody to start out at the top and fall off the ledge so she’s really doing all the right things? I can’t imagine that any not-for-profits would be interest wouldn’t be interested in somebody that has financed skills, planning skills and even merchandising when you look at a lot of the not-for-profits today they have catalogs, they have product everybody’s selling something with a logo and everybody’s looking to make money on dh. So what’s your advice, then specifically for leonora make this translate into on background that non-profits see the value of, well, one of the ways we’re going to work on that is to refine her resume and extrapolated some of her skills that are not for-profit person might better c or better related, so you want to you want to focus on her skills? Not so much job titles and corporate name correct. Okay, because i’m looking at her resume and i don’t know. Leonora, do we have your permission toe put the resume up on the on the my blog’s so that people can look at it. And as they’re listening maybe to the show in after the after this live broadcast would that be okay? Yes, but we’re going to make a better version. That’s, right? So maybe what we should do, i think this will be ideal. We’ll put the before and after so well before up this weekend, and the after will come after you and paul have worked on it, and people can see the and the b version because i’m looking at the resume now and it’s it’s all corporate on dh. So, paula, you want to translate that to bring out skills? Is that right? And what types of skills do you see in lena’s background that you would want to highlight the resume? Well, again, i think because she has financed experience, i don’t think there’s an organisation alive today, whether they have for-profit or not for-profit this doesn’t want somebody that understands financial planning and where we going with his and we’re going to meet our financial goals of the bottom line is even if you’re not in it for the profit, you still have to be able to afford to maintain your organization and your infrastructure and hard knowledge can really taken organization to perhaps that middle ground where you’re not necessarily not for profit, and you’re not necessarily for-profit but the concepts are the same, and the ideals of the same financing. Exactly. Leonora, have you been actively looking in the non-profit community or you’re just really sort of getting started in the non-profits basically just getting started because experience with my mother just happened, like, a month ago. Oh, this is all very recent for you out there. Okay, well, good. All right. That makes it timely for the for the audience. Excellent. Um, so we want to look at the resume. Pull ahead. I would add something else. And and again, leonora and i have talked about this if she’s ever done volunteer work, if she’s ever done anything, whether it be for the corporation she was employed by or personally, that plays well too and not for-profit i’ve done volunteer work my whole life and it’s kind of the thing that when i deal with a not for profit organization, that they really like that i haven’t been somebody who’s purely driven by profits and there’s some understanding of what goes on outside the board room in a corporation, we would also actually look att not-for-profits and look at how they describe what their needs are because all of those organisations post open jobs. And if we look at the language it’s really just a matter of changing the language so that the person understands what you did and how it translates to their organization, i on my block, which is a polo marks dot com i have articles that i write periodically, that’s say, change your language and change your results and that’s really what we’re talking about change your language for your audience that’s so we need to shift terminology app from the corporate to the not-for-profits are there other specific sites that you would recommend? Lenore eleonore, look at for non-profit job openings, i think she can go toe any one of the large not-for-profits in the new york tri state area metoo have got places like lincoln center, you’ve got major hospitals, you’ve got colleges and universities and there’s a whole universe out there on and frankly, i think that there are a lot of organizations that would be lucky to have her they just don’t know where to find her and they don’t know had to translate, so we need to help them to translate and it’s really just a question of looking at their nomenclature versus the nomenclature. Used in a corporate environment and is you and i both know tony, you know, we grew up in environments where we call the d e o c thirty forty years ago. And now it’s cool diversity. And then during watch watch george in jail, though e o c was the equal employment opportunity commission, i realize that, but i know, you know, you know, hiring right have to be careful, you know, a cz warden of jordan jargon jail and respectful of the audience. Okay, well, yes, but now it’s diversity, of course, leonora, i want to bring you in some or what? What have you been talking, teo? Doing any networking in the non-profit community it or not? Not even started that the only type of networking that have done phenomena in the non-profit would be more in the other networking center that i go, teo, where more people there or for non-profit so i’ve been trying, tio i mean, it’s only been, like two weeks, but i’ve been trying to connect with them. We’ll try to get more information on dh what’s been the receptivity so far they’ve been very receptive, which is like with open arms. Because they just feel like somebody that, you know, i could do the job that could do something and sort of helped the organization would be fabulous. So it’s, just me more getting out there and also as pull it is very much corporate language, so i definitely need to update that right? And i was also wondering about your sort of elevator pitch. I mean, as i as i introduced you and asked you to explain your background as you did so very concisely, it was all in that corporate language. So i guess that’s something paul that you would want to work on also is that not only the resume and printed materials like cover letter, but leonore is just conversation about her background? Yes, it’s something we will work on, and we will do a role play on it. And i have enough contacts in the not for profit world that even if they didn’t have a position available, they would be willing to speak with her so that she could do in practice. Practice makes it perfect. And we have to make this translation from an outstanding corporate background to the non-profit language and openings that exist? Leonora. You mentioned something, you know, getting out there. Full of what? Poland. What other advice do you have for leonora? Aside from specific going to specific large non-profit websites and looking for jobs, how should she be getting out there? Well, you’re asking the wrong person because there is no place that i go where i don’t make new friends will share your that’s. No, i’m asking the perfect person. Non-cash. How should leonora be making new friends getting out there? Yeah. How should you do it? Okay, well, last week, you know that i went to detroit. I had a client meeting and i met thirty knew people on the plane going out to detroit and on the way, but okay, how do you meet thirty people on a plane i sit next to well, when i’m unlucky. I’m next to two ones on my left ones on my right. But i usually prefer the window, so i usually sit next to one. How do you meet thirty? Well, you get on the plane and you say hello. Good morning. And if the person looks up and makes eye contact you to start to talk to them? And i always talk to the attendance, and my nephew flies for american. So i asked them if they know my nephew and they will look at me like i’m crazy and actually one flight. Somebody did know my nephew, so they have it. I talked to people the row in front of me and the road behind me. And then i get up, and i’m going to the ladies room, and i have to say excuse me to a few people, and i really just look for people’s receptivity on the flight back. I actually met a man who lives in salt lake city and he’s, a mormon, and he organizes trips for his community. So of course i made friends with him and his wife and the three rows in front of him in the three rows behind us. And i got a whole lesson on genealogy. I think networking is really nothing. Mohr than taking down your guard, getting putting down your blackberry, unplugging your ears and just doing what we were given at birth. And that is senses. You see it. You hear it. You smell it. You touch it. If i get a vibe from somebody not interested. I move on to the next, you know, on a big plane, there’s three hundred people. I only met three new people on the jitney this morning, but it was early for may. I understand there was it was a slow morning for you. All right, so give me some listeners who are frequent business travelers who may or may not be receptive, but you’re but you’re saying, you know, you gauge you gauge receptivity if somebody gives you a grunt, you’re obviously not going engage them in conversation, but if they give you a smile and a oh, don’t worry about it. No problem, you know, you’ll, uh you’ll be more likely to go to follow-up and continue a conversation i see. How does that sound to you, leonora? Is that i mean that’s sort of personality thing. Paula and i have spoken about it, i’ll try it and he does work. It’s really does work yesterday was at a job fair and, you know, we’re just waiting on line to see these companies, and i saw it turned around and talk to the lady and which is great because, you know, you get she knows somebody and she’ll give me a point xero she’ll say something and it just direct strike something in my head. I’m like, well, i got to try that, and it just keeps on continuing, which is fabulous. I agree. I think it does work. I hope i’m not one of those grumpy business travelers, but there are some i tryto travel with a smile on my face. Uh, excuse me. Pardon me. Somebody bumps in seo no problem. You know, i i hope i’m that person i tried to be. Um, listen and you’ll you’ll establish such a closer relationship. Sort of. Then you will, you know, from ah, length in connection. Okay, but let’s talk about social media because that is another way that is very prevalent in today’s job search community. What what? What advice do you have for leonora? Or generally, people trying to make this corporate non-profit switch around around online and social media? Good question it is the wave of the present, and while i’m not a lover of technology, i see the value in it because i now have friends worldwide that i have not met in person, but i’m improving every one of the foreign languages that i speak so i’m on facebook i feel very strongly, however, that on facebook and linkedin and any social media, i think you still have to be professional. I think you still have to be smart, i think, using poor language or inappropriate language, i think saying ridiculous things, you know, this is goes into the ether net for the rest of your life, and i think that there are a lot of people who don’t really think about it. And so i think you have to put your best foot forward in the most professional way, and if you make a friendship out of it, that isn’t professional. Well, terrific, but you’re really in this for the professional aspects of it. I connected with a cousin of a cousin this week who i haven’t seen in forty years, and we were obviously both very young people, and i have twelve new connections from him this week. And so i think it’s important to just keep putting yourself out there, but in a way that you want to be perceived, you have some control. And leonora, are you on lincoln? Yes, i am. And yes. And i made sure that i connected through different people and it’s actually pretty pretty thing okay? And does your linkedin profile specifically say now that you’re in a job search and that you’re looking in the nonprofit world, haven’t nothing haven’t updated it for non-profit but it is saying that i am searching and i’m looking okay, gotta get updated, okay? Yeah, okay, another thing for the to do list, understand? And how about facebook? Are you on facebook? Leonora? Yes, um, on facebook, but i’m not maybe i just need to be more diligent with it. I’m focusing more on lengthen that i was facebook, but hearing on how important that is, well, i’m going to try to update that as well, because i think i think facebook friends can be helpful, right? If you post appropriately and as paula admonishes us professionally about the fact that you’re in a job search, there may be friends on facebook who don’t know you otherwise, i don’t know you well enough or aren’t in close enough contact to know that you’re in this kind of search. Facebook could be valuable, i tell you an interesting thing i got an email from a woman who is a secretary to the cfo at bergdorf’s and this was in the eighties, and she said, pola, i always liked you. I always thought you were really nice, but i had no idea that you were this professional and you were this creative and i thought, well, i should be on facebook more, and i think that’s the truth, i think we don’t know enough about people and we forget, and this is a great reminder, and what i think we forget about the whole concept of networking is that everybody knows somebody and you need to get to the somebody’s because that’s, where the connections begin to happen when i say somebody, i don’t necessarily mean status or stature, i just mean that everybody is a link to someone else clearly on dh, the online world is bringing that out on dh since we’re talking about this, the year your social media presence, your online reputation, paula, how common is it for employers to look at a potential employees and do sort of global searches, or even maybe hyre vendors toe to search out that person’s online persona to see? Have they done something that could be potentially embarrassing to the company. Is that is that that’s happening? A good deal? And i think it’s happening mohr and mohr and mohr. And i think that it is again, it’s, one of those places where you don’t want to have to bite your tongue afterwards. And i even think that there are asset protection aspects of an organization that are beginning to look at at the public persona that may be inappropriate for them and for their reputation. Let’s, switch gears a little bit to the to the interview. When paula starts, i’m sorry. When leonora starts to get interviews, how should she be positioning herself for the non-profit opening and that’s? Another very good question. And leonora and i talked about this very briefly this morning and essentially i said to her, you know, you have to be yourself on dh this is this is not about halloween. This is about you got to be yourself, because when the mask comes off on day one, you have to be who the client expected you to be. So once again, i think you have to show up is who you are. Leonora. How do you feel about interviewing you all your all your interviews to date have been with for-profit people working in financial merchandising? What what’s what’s your feelings about interviewing in the nonprofit world? Nervous it’ll be the first time that i’ll be putting myself out there, but i think that i’m, um a realistic person, trustworthy person. I respect of the people i lived by, like, five basic core values which are trust, respect, believe, humility and integrity, which i think transcends and fits very well, with the nonprofit organizations excellent, so upleaf schooling are always nervous, but you know what? If i lived by those values, those people are going to say it, and it will be one fabulous happy party poll since, since leonora admits to being nervous about it are our mock interviews, valuable rehearsal interviews so that the first time you’re doing it is not a live performance, so to speak. Yes, i think they’re very helpful. And as i said to leonora, i was born nervous and i’m nervous every second of every day. So that’s just a condition we live with and she’s living with it really well and you don’t want the the first time to be alive. A live interview that matters. You wantto have some me like today, leon, or you’re a terrific sport. How you doing? Great, she’s. Fabulous. But you want to have some rehearsals behind you before you go quote on stage it would be helpful, i think, um, my guest has been paula marks and she’s, managing director at gilbert tweet international. She is our regular expert in in recruiting and job search for our recurring feature. I’m looking and leonora i wanna thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you very much. Leonora. Leonora scala is on staten island in new york and we’re gonna post her resume cause we got her approval and then we’ll post the after resume. So we’ll have the one that i’m looking at and paula’s looking at today and then shortly, i guess a week or two, we’ll have the plan b, the second after resume, and that will also be on my block at m p g a d v dot com that’s, where all the files are for all the shows and you’ll be able to compare and see how this excellent commercial and corporate background got translated to a non-profit job seeking resume. We’re going to take a break and after the break it’s, tony’s, take two and then after that it’s robert sharpe had a cripple your career in five easy steps, one of the interviews that i did with the chronicle of philanthropy at the national conference on philanthropic planning. I’m tony martignetti host of non-profit tony martignetti non-profit radio please stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 at aqueduct racetrack in queens, contending into three p m, we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on jobs, try to jeez and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelve at aqueduct racetrack. For a Job fair from 10 a m to three p m. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio we’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent it’s time for tony’s take two and today’s show um, fundraisers should not piss off women i blogged about that this week, my blog’s that m p g a d v dot com what am i talking about? Recent statistics showing that women generally in just about every category of age and marital status or widow status, arm or generous donors to non-profits than men in just about all all the categories on and we all generally know that women outlive men. So when you put those two stats together, my admonition is that we shouldn’t be marginalizing women, and sometimes i do see it happen, let’s say, at events where the husband or the man in the relationship is the primary constituent or donor-centric honest relationship to the non-profit and the people in the non-profit tend to spend their time with him and leaving her sort of on the side and not really engaged in the conversation. And even i guess one of the most egregious ones i’ve seen is where the male will be pulled away from his female guest, or whether it’s, wife or not and ah, to make an introduction to the ceo of of the organization and then the woman has left sort of standing by herself because they bring the man and leave the woman behind. So don’t marginalize women it’s i see it sometimes in direct mail, excluding ah couple’s names from letters from thank you letters as well. A solicitation letters don’t marginalize women, and, as i said, there’s more about that on my block at mpg a dv dot com under the block post fundraisers should not piss off women also wanna let you know that in november, i’m going to be at the next-gen charity conference that’s in new york city on november eighteenth and nineteenth on the eighteenth. There are guests like seth godin and zuckerberg, who is the co founder of facebook. Seth gordon is a very popular business blogger has written a dozen or so best selling books about ah, business marketing, they’re speaking. People like them are speaking on the eighteenth, and i’m gonna be doing podcast interviews, recording those interviews for later editions of this show, and then on the nineteenth, i’ll be doing a workshop that’s the second day of next-gen charity conference that’s from eleven to one and my workshop topic is pg and so me planned e-giving in social media working together to enhance your plan e-giving fund-raising since your listener of the show, i can get you twenty percent off that conference if you’d like to attend twenty percent off both days the full conference registration goto my blogged and p g a d v dot com or the facebook page for this show, which is at facebook dot com tony martignetti non-profit radio and you’ll get information about the twenty percent off discount for our listeners that is tony’s take two for today halloween, friday, october twenty ninth the next segment is a pre recorded interview with robert scharpnick um, i recorded a number of interviews in collaboration with the chronicle of philanthropy. Raymond flandez, a reporter with the chronicle, and i interviewed about half a dozen people, and i’ll be playing these recordings. Overtime today’s is robert sharpe had a cripple your career in five easy steps raymond and i interviewed robert to talk about lessons that he’s learned in decades of experience working with planned giving fundraisers witnessing watching some of them cripple their own careers. And, of course, we translate that into information to help you to avoid those traps. So here’s the beginning of the interview from non non-profit non-profit conference on philanthropic planning with myself and raymond flandez from the chronicle of philanthropy. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio and the chronicle of philanthropy coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning. We’re coming to you from lake buena vista, florida. It’s a beautiful, sunny day. And i’m very pleased to be joined in partnership with with the chronicle by raymond flandez. Welcome. Hey, thanks, tony. Thanks again for inviting me a pleasure. And our guest this session is robert sharpe. His seminar at the conference is how to cripple your career in five easy steps. Robert has over thirty years and fund-raising he’s warned all kinds of hats that he brings to his current role as consultant. And those hats have been boardmember attorney donor-centric the short group, which is a memphis, tennessee based consultancy. Robert, welcome to the show. Well, it’s, great to be here. Tony it’s. A pleasure to have you. This is sort of ah, provocative, interesting way of looking at career management five ways to cripple your career we typically see you speaking about major e-giving and planned e-giving the substance of those and doing the fund-raising work around those areas, it sounds like now you’re looking at the career management for people in those in those roles, what brought this topic to your attention? Well, i think it’s no secret that the last two or three years have been a challenging time for a lot of organizations, and a lot of people have hit the wall in some ways is as far as their roles are concerned, it’s been a difficult time for fund-raising of all types, and i think in this environment, it’s very important for people to understand how to manage their career on dh, how to right, i could have said five steps to succeed in your career, and that would’ve been interesting, but i think in this environment, people are more concerned. Pitfalls to avoid on dh you’d have had a smaller audience, but everybody thinks they know howto what they should be doing, right? But you’re approaching from the other side and what not to do it right? And what i found is that buy-in advising people on how to how to succeed in planter major gifts. Ah lot of the a lot of the ways to succeed or common to a lot of you know, you could say pay attention to your donors, be sure you understand all these various things you can say the but the ways you really succeed are unique to particular organizations. A university with multiple schools is gonna have a different situation than a small shop with one person sure and those those air unique to the organization. What i found is there’s certain things, especially when you’re dealing in the plan gift area where the stumbling blocks or the things that cause people to fail, they tend to be mohr universal and can be addressed. Mohr as a group of here, something’s that no matter where you are, you’re probably going to fail if you follow these particular if you if you if you follow these steps that i’m going to scratch and let’s just jump in i mean, i one of your career crippling methods if you if you want to cripple your career, these are the things to do, but i know one of them. Is failed to understand what plans e-giving is right? I mean, i have done that would be stop number one and that’s the most important thing, because now you find yourself in charge of playing, giving what is that? I’ve sat down with boards of trustees with groups of donors with groups of individual fundraisers and asked them to write down a a ten or fifteen word description of playing e-giving you read those thirty or forty descriptions, and you would not think you were talking about the same thing, some people it’s oh, it’s, tax oriented gifts other people will say, oh, it’s, larger gifts, others well, it’s guest from old people, you know, it’s, a state guest, it’s legacies, it’s you know, all of these various things, it’s, all the language, we get confused, and so i find people talking past and around each other in this area, and the person thinks that they’re doing playing giving, but they’re boardmember zoho whoever they’re responsible to think, it’s something totally different say, why aren’t you doing this? Well, that’s not playing, you know? Yes, it is that’s. What hard you to do? So that that’s the first thing and understanding whether you’re running a profit center where you’re supposed to go out and spend x dollars and bring in x dollars in certain period of time, which may be the case if you’re if you’re ah, larger organization and you have a plan giving program it’s primarily aimed at masses of older people and influencing request and gives a death right, that might be the case of a situation like that. What are you, a cost center? Are you there to support? I believe you had a fever. I did way interviewed her yesterday. Well, i’ve worked with for years, and i was talking to her actually earlier today and making the point that when she was a cow, a lot of what she did was support the other fundraisers and questions that came up, she say, in some cases, your profit center out there. In other cases, you’re a cost center, and in some cases you’re both and understanding your budgets and your and how you spend your time in that area is understanding these air. Not these air, not investments. These are gifts that people are making and their five parts to a gift who makes it? Why do they make then there’s? A what? A winning, how, and to some extent what we’re we’re about here, whether it’s a one person or shop, or whether it’s three hundred, we’re about focusing on the areas that relate to the property, the timing and the methodology making a gift. Not necessarily. I think, right raymond has greatly in don’t you think, though, that plan giving is more of, ah, jargon e, or maybe a new inside baseball kind of term, and that, you know, it’s not really specified enough for people you mentioned that there a lot of people who misunderstand it, do you think that there’s should be a definition of it, or how should they approach it, then? When i first was exposed to this field, everyone with directors deferred e-giving there was no such thing as playing giving in the early seventies, the term shifted from deferred giving to playing, giving the idea was most of her gifts or planned, but not all playing against differ, the current giving annual giving over here and deferred giving over here. Then we tried to get the name changed. We did propose back then to change the name to plan giving, but people all they did was substitute playing, giving for deferred e-giving and so in the minds of a lot of older managers, they still think of what playing giving is just being deferred gifts. Other people think of it. Is that so? Yes, it’s an inside term. But even then you have to have you take a job doing, quote, playing, giving or you’re supposed to cover playing, giving you need to find out what it’s defined as in that particular organization and i think that’s the thing that a lot of people miss when they take the roll what’s the derivation of the phrase plan giving and i know your dad had a long history and planned e-giving fund-raising fact, i first learned to play e-giving from your dad, but where’s it all where’s that freeze from it came from universities in the fifties and sixties where they had annual funds on one side annual giving on one side of the shop and deferred giving on the other, and they had people who were specialists and deferred e-giving those people specialized in encouraging goes through estates and trusts and whatever and that’s all they did, and then the other people worked on annual giving, and then with an annual giving, you had major gifts and minor gifts, and so the overlap between now with an aging of the population and most of the, quote, major donors moving past sixty five, eighty million people in the next twenty years if you don’t work in the area, that the idea was that there is no such thing as a plant gift, a plan gift as a result, it’s a conclusion and it could be used for current money. It can be used for endowment. It could be used for capital when a donor recently to a major university did a twenty five million dollar endowment she funded it with highly appreciated stock that was put into a five year term of years charitable remainder trust it terminated after five years and paid off a twenty five million dollar endowment to endow the school that’s a plan gift. So is a request for seventy nine thousand three hundred twenty two dollars and eighty seven cents that you get from a person. Who’s made twenty five gifts of fifteen dollars. You can’t those are not the same. I don’t think the term playing gift is descriptive. It was one of my law professors would have said phenomena logically felicitous enough to describe what those two, those air very different right exercises. One is primarily based around the wealth and structuring guess the other is mainly around the timing in the age of the person and where they are in their life cycle. And it is trying to trying to confuse one term to encompass all that. The term that’s more phenomenal, logically felicitous it’s gift planning. Okay, you start with a who and why and then you move to the what? Winning how it might be a large gift. A small gift it’s annual fun gift you got dahna why? What? Is cashed, the wind is now, and how is a check as opposed to twenty five million dollars gift that’s done in with appreciate stock in the form of a charitable remainder trust that last for five years, you’re you’re listening to the chronicle of philanthropy and tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning, and our guest is robert sharpe, his seminar topic at the conferences. How to cripple your career in five easy steps and on twenty martignetti non-profit radio we have george in jail now you mentioned five years charitable manger tries to pay, etcetera the reason i didn’t put robert in jargon jail just want listeners to know i’m thinking of it. It’s always on my mind, george joe is because it’s it’s really sort of tangential teo to our main purpose, which is talking about career, but obviously it’s a service that outstanding example of how that type of gift something very technical and life income producing, in contrast with the request something quite simple er and no lifetime cost for the donor all has to be encompassed onto this phrase of planned giving so it’s an excellent example, but i didn’t want robert to define it, so but so the sentence is commuted. There’s no, no jargon jail. Well, no one don’t wanna put you in jargon jail over the charitable trust that it was just a good example. Let’s, let’s move teo to understanding. Yes, some something about the donors. I mean, you you know what this is really needs to be sort of a donor-centric process. And i think your your second way of career killing relates to that right this’s sort of related to the first one in the sense that if you think your job is to go out and sell, give plans to people, then you start moving into us. Whether it’s a request or anything else, you start moving into a a sales mentality and you start into ah, okay. I’m gonna go make the sale. I’m gonna listen for their objections. I’m gonna anticipate the objections, and then i’m gonna close this gift. You don’t. You know too much emphasis on transactions. And i think haserot transaction transactional. What did you do it? Your last birthday party, tony, when people brought you presents what you do, i said thank you. Did you close? Those gifts, or did you open the presents? Okay, very true. So this is all about this is relationship. Personal analogies are very good. I have to understand what people are trying to do here when the quest are the largest type, most most prominent source of revenue and most institutions. Okay, tony, i you put a charity in your will at sixty eight years old. What kind of income tax deduction do you get? Not a single one while i’m living. And my estate probably won’t get there in a second. I don’t even know whether i’ll get in a state tax that down. What sort of income do you get from that? I don’t have any income now. What sort of recognition to five out of six people get. He will never tell you about it. Oh, for the five out of six. Not a not a not to mention. What kind of a state tax deduction? Well, let me have a gat slightest idea and yeah, i don’t know. Last year there were about two hundred thousand people who died and left money to journey. Only three thousand of them had tax full state. So you’re talking. About ninety eight percent of people having no there, no the state tax benefits so you’ve got no income tax deduction, no income, no recognition and no estate tax benefit. So why what’s your quid pro quo? What are you selling there? They don’t even tell you most the time what you’re doing is the only people you find in wills are close family, friends and charities. They’re elevating the status of a family member, and that is not a product it’s, not a sale. You’re not selling something, you’re helping people realize desires, and you’re facilitating a gift. That’s what isthe you’re listening to my interview with robert sharp from the national conference on philanthropic planning, along with the chronicle of philanthropy? I know the volume is low for robert, we’ll fix that in future segments, we can’t do anything about it right now we’re going to take a break, and after the break, the interview from and cpp continues co-branding think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding you’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving nothing. Good. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call us ed to one, two, nine, six, four three, five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one, two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Is lack of capital or credit keeping you up at night? The show me. The money conference is coming to the roosevelt hotel, forty five east forty fifth street in manhattan on november third. This’s the best business networking opportunity to meet potential investors and lenders, and get answers from our expert panel of business and financial advisors. From or information, call six four six six one nine eight, xero nine one or online at rose otto accounting that’s r o s a d o accounting, dot, com, slash show me the money. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance. Social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Snusz dahna gracias yourself to a donor. You said that that they should you should treat donors like family members. Is that their particular ways that you you’re able to do that, you know, if you’re busy or how do you how do you do you facilitate that? Well for the people that never tell you what they’re doing in this area? There’s really nothing you can do except treat them well generally, for example, someone sends a five dollar check in and they’re eighty years old. You don’t know whether you’re in their state plan. How many most people that have been in this field for a while no, all the time. They get large requests from people that have very small current gift histories, so pay very close attention. This will get into the one of the last last last steps, but you need to make sure that you’re doing a very good job, generally handling the relationships with the people that meet the profile. Your long term older donors don’t throw them away just because they’re no longer giving at the level that makes him a member of the president’s council. Many of these air retired people there what? Is they don’t have the income and that’s especially true with one percent interest rates, because a lot of people’s disposable incomes older in life are being cut right now, and they don’t have the resource is from which to give currently, if you ignore them and don’t recognize them for what have done in the past, or thank them for what might be a sacrificial gift of ten dollars, you’re less likely to be in the state. So even those even those low level gifts we should be? Absolutely, thank you, there’s. No correlation. The one of the worst pictures of kool aid out there is that you want to look for rich people to do playing guess there’s a negative correlation. In fact, the more likely people are wealthier somebody is if somebody who’s eighty years old with one hundred million dollars, wants to give you a million dollars for a scholarship fund, and they have that they’re going to write you a check where somebody with three million dollars is not likely to give you one third of it, but they could be older and childless, and when they die, they could leave teeth. Two thirds of the money to their nieces and nephews, and leave the third to fund a scholarship fund. But that person with three million dollars may have had a thirty five thousand or fifty thousand dollar a year income the last few years of their life, and they’re not going to be five thousand or ten thousand dollar yurt donors. So there’s also a negative correlation between wealth and the propensity to give to the estate and what’s your advice in whether or not to ask whether the charity is in someone’s will. Okay, that’s that’s one of the points that i’m going to make here is over and avoiding overemphasis on recognition. Now this you don’t if only follow the logic here. If only one out of six or seven are in one major national organization i know about. They only know about one out of twenty five request in advance. That’s, that’s. One particular organization, one frontier history. One out of twenty five hundred twenty five and you never find anybody who knows more than one out of three or four, even in the iv’s with a sixty year relationship. This is private stuff, very private and that’s. Why you don’t get on the telephone and call people up and say, good afternoon, mrs jones, we just did an age overlay and found that your eighty years old and you’re gonna die soon and could you please put us in your will? You know, you know, you know, you know, telemarketing request well, that that now the other thing is, oh, if you will put us in your will improve it, we will make you a member of our legacy society isn’t that fun? Well, you can go that’s using transact action, that’s misusing transactional fund-raising in a capital campaign, you can go to somebody and say, hey, if you don’t name this building and make this million dollar commitment by the end of next month, we’ve got two other people that are going to do it, and i hate to see you lose this opportunity, okay, i’ll get right on that, but you’re not going to find an eighty six year old woman with knee problems and barely can move around. They’re not going to face mortality, drive downtown, face illegal fee just so they can get your lapel pin. All right, you know now what you do is you do the recognition, what should you do after? Well, that gets the point? How do you succeed in this? You use the recognition society so the people that tell you you then have a reason to be in touch with them on a regular basis and you were you are in honoring them and reminding them every time they read your annual port or whatever of what they’ve done, you’re more likely to stay in the will for the ones that tell you, but a lot of people will never tell you and how many people that are listening to this would think about calling up what they think is a rich aunt and asking if there in her will and if she says, honey, i just got back from my lawyer, and i want you to let you know i’m leaving you some money and then the what are you going to say? Oh, write a letter and say, dear aunt tillie, thank you so much for your recent notification of your kind intention to leave me in your will if you could be so good as to send me a copy of your will or specifically the page that names me so i’ll know how rich i’m gonna be. And well, guess what if it’s over one hundred thousand dollars, i might name my garage for you. You wouldn’t do that, you would say thank you, thank you. Now, if you’re a capital campaign and until he calls up and says raymond here’s the deal, i’m gonna leave you two million dollars in my will. But here’s the thing i want to move in with you and i want you to take care of me for the rest of my life. You may ask to see a copy of the will. So if they want a building named after him, if it’s a transaction you treat is a transaction but this supplying transactional fund-raising efforts that are perfectly okay in other areas is what will kill you in this area. Because you will turn off some of the very people who would leave you the largest gifts and that’s exactly what i was you would probably be the answer to what my next question was gonna be. That is part one of my interview from the national conference on philanthropic planning with robert sharp. How to cripple. Your career in five easy steps, part two will be in a future show next week on the show past the cup to corporations. Can you tell that i love a liberations past the cup to corporations, techniques to develop your corporate giving strategy and build relationships so you can ask for corporate support doing so with credibility and confidence? My guest will be john hicks he’s, the president and ceo of j c geever. You could get information on next week’s show and future shows from insider alerts on the facebook page. Facebook dot com slash tony martignetti non-profit radio my live appearances are also there. The creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff line producer sam liebowitz. He’s, also the owner of talking alternative broadcasting on our social media, is by regina walton of organic social media. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Join us next friday at one p m eastern here at talking alternative dot com happy halloween.