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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host listen er of the week, kim wolber or maybe overt. I’m not sure she listens to the podcast on her way to work as director of development, raising special kids in phoenix, arizona. So now she knows who she exactly is. Yes, it’s you came, she says, by the time i get to work, i’m usually fired-up about fund-raising today i listened to your peer-to-peer thirty report and giving days show, and i was secretly a little glad about the traffic on the freeway so i could hear the entire show. You’re an entertaining dose of encouragement. Oh, kim, i love it. Thank you very much. Look atyou longing for traffic so you can listen to non-profit radio that floors me. Congratulations. I will send you a video and you can pick a book from the non-profit radio library. Thanks. And congratulations on being our listener of the week. Oh, i’m very glad you’re all with me. I developed a parrot counselor abscess. If i was forced to chew on the notion that you missed today’s show embrace emerging social media snapchat tinder whisper secrets lauren girardin encourages you to experiment bravely with new channels like those, but who should decide where to spend your time and money? And what questions should they be asking she’s principle of lauren girardin consulting and we talked it ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference and you’re content strategy. Once you’ve decided where to be, what should you do there? How do you launch and stay consistent with your message on your mission who’s responsible for that? Brett meyer is director of strategy for think shout and katie caress is director of online communications at the humane society legislative fund. That interview is also from ntc attorneys take two between the guests a double honor responsive by opportunity collaboration, the working meeting on poverty reduction that will ruin you for every other conference. Here’s my interview with lauren girardin on emerging social media welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen we’re hosted by entender non-profit technology network with convention center in austin, texas. My guest is lauren girardin. She is a marketing and communications strategist. Lauren girardin consultant loren welcome back! Hi durney it’s, good to see you you’re were together in auntie si twenty fourteen. Yeah, we were all right. Your topic this year is don’t panic how to embrace emerging social media with infinite majesty and calm that’s, right? Very important avoiding shiny objects syndrome in social media is that not true? It is to a point i like to encourage people to avoid shiny object syndrome, so using something just because it’s new isn’t the right approach, but the idea is to experiment bravely. So by avoiding things that are new, we often miss out on what opportunities there might be. So if we experiment a little bit doesn’t have to be a full commitment, we can actually find out a new way of doing things are being noticed or of reaching new audiences like that phrase experimenting bravely, but not full not-for-profits it’s experimental before we start to talk about some of the some of the sites that we will like snapchat, tinder and whisper and secret, which i’m very much looking forward to because three of those four i don’t know. How do we evaluate when the next one comes out, whether whether it makes sense for us to to experiment bravely. So the question that we’re often asking ourselves is the wrong question. The question we ask is, should we be using snapchat? Should we be using tinder? That’s not the right question, so we actually to think about what the right question is on the right questions will depend on your organization, but very broadly are what are you trying to achieve? Who are you trying to connect with and engage? What do you trying tto learn? Because a lot of these emerging social channels give us away to learn something new and also then what do you actions real asking people to take in? Is that inaction that they can do because of that channel? So you have to think about the right questions as you’re evaluating these new social channels, all right? Hyre is it possible to be well, who should be? Who should be involved in these in these questions and answer sessions for new channels? So that’s a really good question, their school already only now, i hadn’t actually minutes, and i’m already good question. I know i hadn’t thought of that one before, because when i think of experimenting bravely, i think of sort of the the person looking out into the rising on their own it’s almost it’s, not an isolated practice, but it’s something to do that doesn’t need a committee that doesn’t need a big meeting that doesn’t need a big strategy behind it. And so i think the person that should be involved is the person that’s most comfortable on these channels. So someone who has used these channels for their own personal reasons. So sometimes the first step of experiment on bravely is to use the channels for yourself and then use them for your organization and then to bring it to people who are open minded about new channels who khun see potential rather than seeing negativity. So folks who are involved with your audience is directly are often the best people tohave rather than folks who are not out in the community. Okay, so maybe some of your program, your program, folks, program, people policy, people, fundraisers, anyone who is engaging with people and who could actually ask folks, they take out your phone, told me the apse that you have there. Let me talk to you about the kind of information you’d like to see from our organization on these new channels sometimes it’s really that anecdotal evidence that can help us make brave decisions about social media? Okay, anything else you want to suggest about the the, the general and the and the evaluation before we get into some some actual channel? Yeah, thie evaluation on the newer channels is is really tough because non-profits are looking for metrics we’re looking for measurement, we’re looking for numbers to make our case, and a lot of these channels just simply do not provide those numbers. They either don’t have any analytics built into their system or the analytics they have are not particularly revealing for non-profit so one of the things we need to allow ourselves is a little bit of uncertainty in this evaluation. We may never know the exact demographics of the people that we’re reaching on these new channels on dh, so what we need to do is just take a guess and start playing around really, if we’re not looking, teo, engage buy-in our younger say, tulani als should we still be looking at emerging channels? I argue millennials or younger, even right now, all right, you know, i would argue, yes, because you know, a lot of people say, oh, it’s, just teenagers that you’re using these and that’s what we said about facebook when it launched is, oh, this is just something for college kids. What does this have to do with me in my organization? And very quickly that khun change and snapchats a great example of that? The growth of the user base and snapchat is just astronomical in the past year, whether it’s going to stick around or not is another question, but we have to be nimble in social media, so sometimes it is about looking for what’s hot now and thinking, if there’s a way that we could make it useful for us because it’s really about it being his form. Okay, you know what, before we talk about the newer ones, yeah, let’s talk about the venerated one facebook is it really falling out of favor? I mean, i hear i hear a lot of people complaining considerably about they’re organic reach, having declined precipitously on facebook. Well, facebook is changing because facebook’s audience is changing, so facebook’s audience has gotten a lot older. It’s, one of the fastest age groups growing on facebook, is you know, in their sixties or older and so facebook is adapting to their audience, and they’re also adapting to the realities that they need to make money on dso for non-profits what we have to do is think about instead of facebook being our main channel, it’s been one of many and how are we designing hunting specifically that can work on facebook instead of putting out everything we have and being upset that it’s not working and some of that will be about being a little less self promotional, facebook is dialing down the self promotion that it allows people to share. And so if, if it doesn’t let us put that information out, either we have to find somewhere else. To put it all, we have to put out different information on facebook. Do you find your client’s questioning? Yes, facebook’s value? Yes, absolutely. Part of it is they can see the hard numbers changing, and part of it is that it continues of you’re the organic regional yeah, the organic reach Numbers and and 4 smaller numbers it’s requiring more effort and then there’s the question of will if i have a limited capacity myself in my organization, where can my time be better spent for better results? I think facebook still has a value if you’re not on facebook can affect your credibility, people will go well, are you really serious than if you’re not on facebook or twitter? But we can dial down our efforts there make sure the efforts were how much we’re going to devote tio and then take that time and spend it in a new way and see if we can find something else to add to our catalogue of social media repertoire. Eso let’s talk about something let’s talk about some of the newer ones tinder when what’s tinder tinder is a dating app, but it’s not like i have yes, everyone has that reaction. I don’t think of it as a social media, right? Okay, yes, you swipe left for somebody you like? Yeah, i can’t believe you’re not on tinder, okay? I’m married and i well, i think that would be something that we’re gonna stop here. Maybe not that much different, but okay tinder. So you swipe one way for somebody you want to see. But it’s also geo located? Yeah, it sze showing people who are close to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so you swipe. And if you both swipe yes, then you get access to message each other through tinder. So then you can set up a coffee or a date or something else like that. And tinder, you would think what good is a dating app for non-profits? How could you possibly use it? But it turns out there are few non-profits who views it really creatively. So what are they doing? So one organization used to match rescue dogs with people in manhattan, so they put up profiles for rescue dogs. And if you decided that you like that dog, you could then message the organization and take the dog on a walk or fostered in your home if you weren’t sure you were ready to adopt a dog or straight up atop the dog. And so they did this funds small tinder experiment to figure out if there was a way to use social media like tender not just in her, but other dating outstanding. Could you can you shout out the name of the organization? You know, e doing? I do not, but i will. I will tweet it. And find it later. Okay, it’s, in my presentation on friday. Okay, you’re tuned in on labbate radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. That and i’m kind of surprised that tinder dot com would allow would allow that that so that’s the cabin you that’s actually, i applaud them for that. It’s. Admirable. Well, so that’s the caveats. So tinder has a revenue model, they actually ask people to pay money for their service, and they also have advertising. So this is all considered advertising. So when these channels first come out tinder or what have you there is a kind of a beautiful period where you can get away with a little bit more and so now they’re becoming more formal. So the gap actually just tried to run a tinder advertising campaign, and they got shut down because they didn’t ask permission. So if non-profits are looking to do this, you should definitely always check to make sure that you’re allowed to have either fake profiles or personas or something like that. Okay, gap just want to show people in jeans. Yeah, or other tinder wanted them to pay. Yeah. Okay, but i do admire that they would allow it, you know, like it’s saying that we don’t take ourselves a ll that seriously that we won’t allow that we want to rescue dog matchup. Yeah, and, you know, and even these can be serious topics. There’s, another organization, amnesty international. They did a campaign to bring attention to human trafficking on tinder. It was very serious campaign. What do they do? You remember? Yeah. There was a series of photos and the women got first was a photo of a beautiful woman. And then the next photo you saw of her, she had some bruises. And then there was another photo where she looked even more abused. And it was about not all women have the same rights as women who are using tender, you know, it’s very popular in manhattan. It’s very popular in the us and also a couple of other countries. So it it allowed this serious topic to come through, but it made sense when you were seeing it there that not all women get to choose their partner or how their partner treats them or if they want to leave their relationship. Great education campaign soas faras. You know, tinder is still open to those types of discussions. But with your caveat that you better discuss it with them. Yeah? Or or just be really quick. Don’t put out a press release. We’re not recommending underhanded behavior. Never sneaky. Whisper what’s whisper about so whisper is one of these gossip paps, so whisper secret you quack are these abs that you can use to put up an anonymous post usually text base, and then you can just complain about something that you have to complain about. You can tell someone else’s secrets or one of your own, a lot of people use it when they’re feeling isolated or lonely, to talk about their their deep feelings they would never share on facebook with people who know they are on dh. These are really interesting apse because and has that anonymity or that perceived anonymity there’s some question on security on the steps of course, ok, but there and there that none of these ups or doing anything particularly grand, but a lot of them, you’re back, for example, is geo located and so it’s very popular with college students and there’s a lot of complaining about professors and classes and what’s going on in campus, and so they’re actually very riel social conversations happening on some of these. You cock in particular had a lot of college students talking about race during all of the protest that were going on last year and, you know, there’s a question of whether or not non-profit should be part of those conversations happening on these aps. And are you seeing non-profit using secret? Yeah, and and you quack also, yeah. So there’s one example and i believe it’s it’s anand’s organization. And i think it was in ireland that used one of these aps to it was secret because they were playing on the whole idea of secrets. And what they did was they asked men in there because that was their audience. Two send a picture in on their name and then, with their permission, put their photo and name up on secret and said, i have hiv and it’s no secret with their name and photo. And so that’s. Why kind of turning the tables on secret, really raising awareness about the stigma of living with hiv and aids? I’m telling my own, i’m sharing my yeah, and it’s and it’s, not a secret it’s actually something that’s part of me. And so they wanted to change the narrative about hiv aids sigma in their community and it was really experimental and, you know, a lot of times it’s experimental. Stuff gets you good media coverage and get you really interesting attention andan. Other examples get gas. When they were having all those problems in ray’s, colgate university, the professor’s banded together, so not a non-profit but non-profit could have been involved in this, and i sometimes think, should have they banned it each other, and the professor’s took over you. Cack colgate is a non-profit, the university that’s, true, that’s, that’s, a good thing you called me here in the u s tonto and the professor’s got together, and they took over the conversation and put out more positive messages on the app to overwhelm the conversations around racism that were boiling and boiling. And they decided they wanted to tamp it down, and they used the app in the way it was meant to be used in order to become part of the conversation and to change that conversation as well. Outstanding. Yeah, that was you back, right? Yeah, all right. Quarrel? That water is one that’s been around for a few years. I do a very little bit with quarrel, but so it’s spelled qu o r a right. What do you seeing non-profit potential what’s the potential there. You know there’s there’s two sides to this one. We have to stop your i’m sorry. Yeah. Let’s. Describe what quarrel. I’ll leave it for you because you’ll be more articulate tonight. Let’s tell. Make sure you understand what quarry corps is one of those question and answer site. So anyone can go on, make a profile and post a question, and then the community of core participants can answer that question, and they can do it seriously. They could be a little silly, but for the most part, cora folks take themselves seriously and it’s a professional venu kind of much like lincoln. So people do use it as a point of credibility. Okay, so now the non-profit potential, so they’re non-profit potential is in-kind twofold. So you have the people inside your organization. You have your spokespeople in your leaders, your staff, your board. They can go on and answer questions that are relevant to what your non-profits doing. And they can have that personal that personal view, really showing people that your organization has a lot of different messengers and having those answers, i come from people inside your organization, then speaks to transparency. So you’re both building up the credibility of your employees, but then also building up the transparency incredibility of your organization and charity water, which is so often held up as an example of an organization that does things well on social media actually did this a few years ago, where the ceo went on to kora and asked you answered people’s questions about the organization, which now the tech sector folks are big into kora on silicon valley types and so charity water knew exactly what they were doing that’s one of their audiences and so getting on there and reaching out directly to those people one on one answers was a great move on their part and really helped advance their prestige in the community. So i’m sure you can search for different topics and insert yourself into conversations that you believe your work merits being. Yeah, absolutely. So even if the question isn’t about your organization, you could jump right into the conversation and there are a lot of social chat apps and websites like this, so read it, which, you know a lot of people are talking about has very similar functions, and tumbler has a cuban eight feature as well that organizations i’ve seen use to answer questions and the one one of the nice things about tumblers that those questions can be asked anonymously, but then answer publicly so it’s kind of like a dear abby column latto comedia i didn’t know this feature of tumbler whose question answer yeah, it’s i’ve seen a lot of organizations that work in reproductive and sexual health used this feature because there is that idea that you want some privacy about these questions you wouldn’t go to mom and dad. Perhaps so planned parenthood uses this feature, as does sex, etcetera, which is run by answer out of rutgers university. Interesting. Okay, i only know the microblogging. The future of tumbler. Yeah. Okay. Interesting is always to get your get your organization in conversations and also to show that you have people who are relevant. I mean, that could help for media, perhaps if they if yeah, you’re showing that you have expertise? Well, maybe a voice in a subject. Yeah. Medium a google and find an answer in court and see that your organization five. That answer and they might come calling to interview you for an article they were writing. It’s it. It does establish your credibility in your knowledge on the subject. So within quarter especially you can answer a lot of questions on a particular tag or subject, and people will start seeing you as an expert in that area. I just learned that tweets are going to start being indexed by google. Searched. Yeah. There. There, there. Finally found a happy agreement. Somehow someone must have had a really good meeting. You has been in discussion for a long time, and they couldn’t agree. So good. The rumors. Yeah, yeah, because, you know, everyone wants an insider social media inside. I read a lot. I well, well informed. Yeah, yeah. I’m a sponge for information on this. I have a lot of tabs open in my browser’s, so they so they have been trying, you believe? Okay, yeah. Everyone wants to become the next search index. So actually, some of the apse that i’m going to be talking about on friday, some of them have these aims to become the google of images on do you know a lot of them are also trying to cultivate more positive messages to come through in those ways, too? So there’s fierce competition for for being the next hub for for these audiences and for search? You know, facebook has been trying to do that for a while, twitter as well, google plus, which is just changed itself again. All right, yeah, google plus seems to be struggling. It seems it has a high user base, they’ve got a lot of users, but the engagement numbers for that i’ve seen have been very low on dso just this last week, they’ve announced some new staff changes and that they’re going to be a fraction ing their google plus ap into a couple of different services, perhaps to target specific audiences. Better look for different types of engagement so remains to be seen how and if that can be relevant again. Okay, yeah. Um now i already have a session from from here. It ntcdinosaur where we talked about oppcoll snapchat pretty well and read it on tumbler although you just you drop something up to read it, but i didn’t know what other what other sites can weigh acquaint people with gosh, i wanted to talk about it, but that’s that’s my own obsession. I mean, what about feed, feed and kick there’s ask f m, you know, there’s every for every person, there seems to be a new social through these three foot together ascot from feeding kick no, you know, they’re each one is kind of its own niche, the one that i’m thinking about which i would love to see non-profits use and i haven’t seen that means it is called plague. Okay, well, piela yeah, it’s actually spelled the way that you think it is that such a stream saying for social right now, like feed, which is th e d all right, so this could be cutting edge and emerging news. I, you know, it’s about plague, i just think it’s really interested in what? I’m going to spread the plague about plague. So plague is an app that you can use to spread information so you join you don’t have to create an account, you’re immediately part of a network you don’t a friend people, you’re already part of the potential play. And you i can put a piece of information up and four people near you so it’s all that geo location can receive that information from you, and they decide whether that information is worth spreading or not. And if they decide it’s worth spreading from that one person, it goes out to form more people. And then those people decide if it’s worth spreading and it spreads. This information spreads like a plague exponential and yes, like so if you put out good information, your information can travel. So if it’s something that people like it khun spread as faras the plague network users go so it’s still newish so there’s, you know there’s not as many users in some parts of the u s and some parts of the world but if you can get a piece of information out there it could be very engaging. And i haven’t seen a non-profit use it yet. So i want to see who’s gonna be first across that line very short pieces of information or going to be several hundred words like a log post or or no it’s, not it’s. Mobile audiences so it would be short and then you can also do image is a swell so you can mix it up, but i would keep it short just because the mobile audience tends toe have short attention spans, right? Cool. What anything else you wanna tell us about plague advice for the for the for the the first for the first brave experimenter uganda, you’re going to want to hook it to something that’s happening now something that people are talking about now. So whether it’s an event or a gn anniversary something a current event in the news, i wouldn’t you know it wouldn’t use the dress that that we’re all talking about. Now the blue and gold were black and blue dress, whatever it was, but something that people are talking about now, because that’s going to be the kind of thing that people want to spread, that people want to pay attention to something about trending, trending or timely start? Yeah, and you should always think about doing that with your content because that’s really how people spread information is by whatever they’re already interested in. Okay, now i’m out of touch with black and gold are blue, like i don’t know. I don’t know the dress conversation, not as much of a hurry. I don’t have the same tabs open if you have one tab too few clearly has dressed think, oh, there’s, a photo that went out last week, a few days ago of address and people were up in arms, whether it was black and blue dress where a white and gold dress or something like that, people were arguing about it and then meeting about the colors of the dress. Yes, because there’s and then scientists actually started arguing about why we were seeing different colors in this dress. What is this relevant to anything having to do with anything in the world? That’s important, it’s it’s, not it’s, not no it’s, very frivolous, and we’re at kind of an ugly stage of frivolity and social media right now, and that trust is sort of being held up the totem for that ugly frivolity. You know what? We’re going to end it right there with the ugly frivolity of social media. Lauren girardi, she’s, she’s terrific, you’re great fun! Thank you very much. Marketing and communications strategist the company is lauren. Girardin consulting, and this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference. Twenty fifteen. Thank you so much for being with us, tony’s, take two and you’re content, strategy coming up, first opportunity collaboration. It was a terrific experience. It really kicked us up to the next level. That was ross baird, executive director of village capital and again. There are lots of funders at opportunity collaboration. I said that last week. I want to make the point extremely useful. Contacts, projects, funding. It opens people that’s alberto vasquez, president of soc edad de dis capacidad in sodas, peru opportunity collaboration is a week long, nearly weeklong conference in x top of mexico and it’s around poverty reduction anywhere in the world. It’s in october. I’m going again this year. If that’s your work, you should check out opportunity, collaboration at opportunity, collaboration, dot net. I’m being honored by hermandad mention this last week and hope you’ll indulge me for this last week it’s, a charity that brings water to the poorest of the poor in the dominican republic. I’ve been helping them for a lot of years and saving lives in the d r and it would be for me a double honor if you’d be with me by supporting hermandad with a gift we can save lives together in the dominican republic and the honor together on the stage on april twenty third, i’d be very grateful for your support. Video and links are at tony martignetti dot com and i thank you very much. That’s tony’s take two for friday, seventeenth of april, the fifteenth show of the year here’s another interview from ntcdinosaur with brett meyer and katie caress on your content strategy. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference two thousand fifteen it’s hosted by antenna non-profit technology network. We’re in austin, texas, at the convention center. My guest is katie caress she’s, director of online communications for humane society legislative fund. Katie welcome. Thank you so much for having me. That’s a pleasure. Thanks. For taking time on a busy conference, your workshop topic is content strategy one oh one, what are non-profits not doing so well? I could do better at around their content strategy. Well, i bet everybody here has the intention to do much better. I think that everyone here probably is looking for something like content, strategy and it’s, just a matter of kind of getting their leaders, the executives onboarding really what it does is it applies, like intention and focus to all of your messaging. It’s, the basic plan, or the idea that your messages need a plan, a plan, focuses plan strategy, yeah, that sounds like it starts with goals. Yeah, it starts with goals. It’s just a good idea to start with making sure that you understand oh, yeah, making sure that you understand what your business goals are and discovering how your channel usually is websites with content strategy, but it could be anything social email, whatever making sure that those platforms have goals that are tighter business schools. So you’re avoiding this kind of like sprawl and all over nests of what happens with web sites a lot of time and the ad hoc put this up, teo well, great now, right? I’m taking it back to come from a ceo or a boardmember on dh or someone else senior, and it becomes hard to say no, exactly exactly, and i think that a lot of people who were working on websites or other channels just kind of feel like they’re in this quagmire, right there just likes just drowning and content, and they don’t have the tools to kind of push back or, you know, carve out a better way. So what this says it’s, like, we acknowledge that you’re in this like situation where you’re getting input from stakeholders who had all kinds of varying degrees of a definition of what the website is for what this content is supposed to do so content strategy says everybody from their own perspective, everybody’s no perspective, their own priorities, different audiences and you end up with this website that kind of like pleases nobody, right? It doesn’t drive your business goals, so content strategy says let’s, ask the question of why, before we do anything and i think that’s kind of revolutionary who worked on the web even the past, like ten years. It’s it’s just this race to the bottom, like what you said, like publish all the things now, and this has kind of slow down let’s have a plan and it ends up like driving engagement that it improves your brand it, you know, drives up, conversions, everything if you can kind of get the buy-in take a beat and pursue this, ok, where should we start our conversation? That was great over that was excellent. Overviewing thank you. Should we get started? Well, you should get started by, you know, finding some similarly minded colleagues, right? So talk to your team members about this current problem. Probably everybody started talking about it. I’m sure they are. Right, so talk to them about this. Just, you know, new notion that people are pursuing get the, you know, good kind of the buy-in from your colleagues and then start reaching out to people who are, you know, a little above you who could be an ambassador for you to senior leadership and work on getting that buy-in from those folks and then you just start by where you’re basically telling them or trying to get them on board with. We need to be more strategic about this. Yeah. Here. Our problems. Yes. And here’s, what are potential outcomes are yeah, if we can be a lot more sophisticated about, like here’s. Why we’re drowning, right? He’s, our driving here’s where our pages aren’t really converting people here’s why there now, not performing to where we want them go and you can even, like, start with your business goal. And then you pursue an audit. We got a big hump, okay, just went away. Okay. Great. What that was that was the speakers, the thie non-profit radio sound system. A cz exemplary it’s beyond question. So that came from the austin convention center. I wish i could run. I could run. This convention out of the way we run non-profit really agree? I don’t know these losers here. Yeah, but so one of the great first step to take us to get an audit done right? And so it’s an inventory of all of your content, but then it’s the audit phase, which you’re you know, you’re evaluating page by page, and for some people, this could be like tens of thousands of pages on their website right lorts a couple hundred, you’re evaluating page by page and determining whether that content piece of content actually lines with what everybody says your business goals are it’s a pretty serious audit? Now you gotta look at every page, every page, and obviously, if you have hundreds of thousands of pages, or if you’re, you know, a merchant’s site you’re going, you’re going to do like a sample size of those pages, right? You’re the idea is to just see, really, hell, well, you’re you’re content is performing and a lot of times that drives a conversation that drives, you know, that gives you the ammunition to make the case that we need to make a change, so an audit is key. It’s the first place to start and then you’re pursuing just getting that content landscape kind of sketched out determining what you’re ecosystem is right. So let’s say, you’ve got like, you know, thirty things the organization works on for non-profit you’re gonna have all kinds of things somebody’s working on. So you get the executives and the subject experts to agree? Like what? Our priorities right where the organization’s priorities get really clear on that, and then look at how those priorities and those areas they’re kind of developed on your site. Do you have one thing that’s like this really, really weird offshoot thing? Just like favorite thing, and you have, like, forty thousand pages on it. This should all be driven by the mission. Yeah, exactly. I already should be pretty clear. Yeah. Moflow very yeah, smooth from your your mission statement. Yeah, but what you’ll find, but i think a lot of non-profit especially large ones like, oh, my gosh, there’s there’s competing goals were competing priorities, and competing interpretations of with that mission is all across organization, which leaves just, you know, a lot of strife and a lot of tension for folks who were like right in the middle of that content production system, like the web editors. So, yeah, the idea is to kind of, like, sketch out what your content ecosystem should be. So if our priority right here is, like farm animal welfare, we we should have, like, the depth of that contact your sights to reflect that, and it should also reflect what the current priorities are and the tone that you should using, etcetera. But if you have something that’s just, like, really, really low priority, it doesn’t make sense for that to have, you know, take up twenty percent of the site and you’ll find that that happens a lot of times, so okay, okay, so we were going to get some early stakeholders summerlee allies engaged with us, yeah, hyre who then starts to develop the content strategy? So, you know, you may have someone who is a content strategist on your team, like, if so lucky you a lot of places, all right, let’s assume not our audience is small and midsize. Non-profit yeah, exactly, i know, and i’m from a huge non-profit and we don’t have anything like that, so usually this falls on the shoulders. Of you know that editorial director of a website or, you know, a director of any filler online platforms and usually going to fall on them, and it doesn’t have to be like we’re going to do all of this right now. It can be baby steps. They can be like let’s just take on one like many project and apply content strategy to it, like run that through that screen, kind of demonstrate successive that way, teo to your stakeholders and say, look how well this worked. Look how we drove results this way by applying attention and focus to this, and then you could move on to a larger things, but it always usually kind of just germinates from the web team, maybe someone else, depending on how the organisation structure and maybe someone like development or design. Everybody has a part in this, but yeah. Then it just gets not only getting the work done and turning your website our platform into what you wanted to be. Okay, that all sounds very simple, but there’s gotta be more to it on. We got plenty of time to spend together. So where? Where do we go now? Well i mean, yeah, gosh, so it starts with the audit, you know, and you’re looking into how your, how you’re this map to your goals and everything, and then you might start with, like, a section of the website, maybe a section that you feel like the stakeholders there are going to be easy to work with, and they’re going to, like, excited about the process, and so you might start with that that that section that makes a lot of sense but very good to make it explicit, you got some of those early allies. Zoho leaving some of their content is the place to start, you know, and don’t start with someone who are a section of your organization who, you know, it’s been kind of contentious to work with them, and a lot of people talk about how content started she’s about, like therapy, right? It’s like all these relationships, because content is so personal, there’s so many people who were owning content across the organization and to them that that page that they wrote on legs, horse, immuno contraception is like their baby, right? Like, okay, well, this makes no sense to an audience this makes no sense to a user, how are they going to do that? So a lot of this kind of, you know, your revision work or whatever is collaborative, and you’re getting people on those teams who contribute to content and you’re all coming to a consensus on, like, what it should be based on, like what? We’ve all agreed on the goals, and we’ve all agreed on the audience, like, how can we change? And sometimes you get them involved in writing new stuff? It all depends on kind of the scope of the organization and how involved everybody wants to be, but it should be a collaborative process, and it could be merely taking, like, five pages that you took out from the audit and saying, like, okay, well, these pages are they really working for us? And so you get them involved in that early early stages so they can kind of see it don’t feel like they’re being put upon, right? A lot of this is relationship management, and so, yeah, you may take five pages and two of them make the cut on the new site, but you’ve all worked on that together. Three then you decide to retire or, you know, you can, you know, contingency plan it, right? Like have a couple of bourbons on it, and he composed it. But the whole thing should be collaborates. You have everybody going on the same page from beginning tend so we should be thinking also about our audiences. That’s, right, who’s who’s consuming this content, right? And so that’s. One of the first things you develop as your, you know, working on your goal, you’re also thinking about your audience. And so anybody who’s working in a content strategy, capacity and organizations should be talking a lot, teo, all the stakeholders throughout the organization who are touching that content, right? So my job would be to go to that course. Amina, contraception page owner i mean, like, why is this important to you? Tell me, i use this in your work, but do you really, really want to see this? And what do you want them to do with it on? Don’t get a lot of really, really good information out of that. It sometimes turns out to be less contentious than you may have thought it wass right? You’ll discover that like, oh, actually they’re you know, they’re worked, requires something different, and now i can pitch something different to them that’s more useful than like this page on the website that i’ve seen has gotten like twenty, views and past year and so it’s, just a lot of lot of talking relationship management, and then once you’ve got kind of, i guess that section worked on or even the whole site, then you just move on to a governance situation and actually see bret coming right here. Maybe he wants to speak on governance. Governance is actually brett’s section right? Red, you better hurry up, man. Come on. Get in here. Brett, please get in here quickly because we just transition to your section. Take your lanyard off, please. Red came in late, but we can accommodate him. And actually, we were just getting to the section on governance, governance. So please put on your headset because you’ll hear a lot better and filter out background noise. And wes is going to bring you into the picture. We got everybody, wes. Alright, outstanding welcome. Thank you. Okay. This is brett brett brett meyer, content strategist for think shout welcome. Welcome to non-profit radio. Thank you. Coming closer to the microphone, please should be within an inch. All right, excellent. Katie was doing an excellent job. Hopefully you were going to join us, but we would have gone ahead without you. So i don’t want you to think that you are indispensable. Great, but you did show up at the exact right time is very good timing if you’re going to be late was perfect great governance, governance around our our content strategy. What what does? What does that even mean? The governance of it governance is the plan for the plan. There are a lot of non-profits these days who are under the impression that they need to create as much content as possible, which is kind of the opposite of having his strategy. So governance ltu plan who is responsible for what? So you’re going to have probably a team of writers. Is that team of writers going to be able to publish content directly to the website themselves, or is it going to go through a review process? The whole thing around governance is making sure that people understand what their roles are and setting up the map for how content. Is going to move from creation through publication to the public. Okay? And as we are, these are these are written this’s, a written plan, this government’s plan. Ideally, it is going to be written down. Usually, it is more of a word of mouth thing, and people just have a general idea of what their roles are. We always advised that there is that kind of written plan or map of how things work, because people leave and new people come in. And if you don’t have that documentation for how things were supposed to work, it takes them a long time to get back up to speed. All right? Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked, and they are levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m gale bauer from sponsorship strategist. Dot com. Let’s, go into a lot more detail. Way got some time left together. What what? What what element do you like to see in in the government governance plan? Let’s? Take the idea where it is, it is written? Yes, we try to make sure that things aren’t just happening in the communications department because everybody’s going to have some sort of content that they want to get on the web site that day, we talked about getting the early buy-in great. So yeah, it’s it’s kind of along the lines of a cross functional team, you have to identify who the best writers are the people who are going to create content that’s going to have meaning for the users who were coming to the website and just generally making sure that they understand what their roles are, who is going to be creating the content who’s going to be editing the content? If you have that kind of evergreen content, they stuff that is going to be kind of a permanent fixture of the website. How often are you going to go back and take a look at that content again to make sure that it is meeting? The needs of the organization isn’t performing as well as it should be. So part of the governance is it also understanding what the metrics for success are and the metro for success are going to be a lot different for the about the organisation information than it would be for, say, the blawg or if they’re doing events? An event is a very time box thing it’s going to have a ramp up? They’re going to be pushing a lot of content or information around the event, but as soon as the event is past that usually doesn’t have a lot of utility as opposed to maybe some of the about us content you want to get across what the goals of the organization is, what the organization does. You want people to really understand what this non-profit is trying to accomplish its very important content, so they need to keep coming back and making sure that it’s working, writing down the goals means that they have something to measure against, and they’re not just creating content in the dark. Katie, i see you doing a lot of nodding, but there’s things you like to add, i mean, the only thing i would add to that i’m sure brett nose like you would think, really addresses the idea that content is like a living, breathing thing, right? The website this is living, breathing thing it’s very different than an email that you sent out to your list. You know, it has to be up there all the time. And so what? Brett’s talking about it’s so critical, teo to know that it’s not enough just when you hit publish, you know, it’s not like a print magazine. It’s not like an email, he just sent out not even, like log, you know, so that’s just the beginning when you hit publish and so this governance is so, so critical to making sure content is still performing, you know, a year from now or that you that you remember that it’s up, it makes a lot of times you have a huge website, people were like, oh, that that page, yeah, it happens to people who are, like, really deeply invested as well. Just i have a huge websites going to it’s going to take over if you don’t govern it let’s spend a good amount of time talking about the measurement and the success metrics go ahead, that’s your that’s, your area? Excellent. Yes, we’ve been doing a lot of data with our cloudgood data work with our clients recently, so we know for a fact that the home page is not the common way that people come into a website anymore. They’re using google, they’re coming in deep in into the site, through social media or through what’s called dark social, the people chatting each other, links on stuff that can’t really be tracked. No, you have to understand that any page of your website might be creating that first impression for folks, but the goals of the various types of content that you might have on your website are going to be different. So when we do work with clients, we try to help them understand that an event page, a page that somebody might google for. Oh, amplify austin, for example. What? We don’t know exactly what page they’re going to come into at first, but as the data starts to come in, you can see where they’re entering the site and you can help. You can come up with the metrics that are going to let you know whether or not that paige is successful, so if you’re coming into an event page with the registration, you want them to get the information about the event very quickly and decide whether or not they want to attend, and the next step from that would be clicking on the register button, which would be very different from a post on the block where you want them to consume the content and then probably share it. So the metrics there going to be slightly different. The important part is to recognize all the types of content and set up the different metrics that will indicate success for that particular organization, because it’s always going to be different, okay? And katie, we were using the interesting example of the equine immuno contraception paige thank, which could be a coin acquaint, contra or something. Yeah, i mean that that was so it was so benefit from governance. I would just so benefit from having those questions asked. Like, what does it mean for this page to succeed? What do you want your users to do with it? And then really, really, like, trail down and see if that’s happening. And i think that that could take care of so much like problem content on so many people’s websites, if you’re just sticking to you, like, really direct, objective measurement and then there’s kind of you take away all the, like, the sensitivity with that, like, okay, here’s this thing that i didn’t say like, you know, google said it, whatever, we still have several minutes left together, what what have we not talked about? Whatever i ask you that that you want to share? I like to, and i know that katie agrees with this because we’ve talked about it a little bit make sure that krauz understand the content strategy doesn’t have to be just about the website, and it shouldn’t just be in the communications department e channel it is multi channel and the development, the people in the development department who are sending out fund-raising letters that is a piece of content that is going to create an impression and if any one of these things is a little bit off message, i mean, we don’t want to get too far into the whole whole branding part. But if anything’s too far off message or strikes a wrong note with the supporters, you’re probably going to lose thumb, at least in the short term. I’m so glad you brought that up exactly whenever i’ve talked about content started, you know, a lot of people think like, oh that’s just for websites and even this idea that content is only on a website and just like no like a tweet is content any you know, period it’s, certain pages, that’s, all content that’s why i get so excited about this top because i really feel like it has, you know, with the ability to bring everything together and it can get kind of as big as you want it to be. But that’s what that’s? Why it’s so cool? And i the best organizations i’ve seen are the ones who are integrating every single channel into their content strategy and all just completely flows the same ethics, the same style, the same tone, the same priorities and goals and audiences were just really, really woven and deeply, inappropriately and it’s just like it’s cake. I love it! Brett katina, a zay mentioned, talked about getting some allies early on and then may be developing a mini project. Around some of their content. Do you have any other ideas you want to add about trying to get this? This team buy-in whether it’s in the early stage or or in the later stages, maybe some, maybe some departments are not as willing as others. What advice do you have there? Katie is absolutely right getting that early win always going to be important because then you’d demonstrate the success or what you can possibly achieve by having a written content strategy other than that getting that leadership buy-in early is it’s, not just from the team that you’re assembling, that that’s going to be creating the content. Leadership really has to support this and understand the value they already understand the value, because we’ve been talking about branding at the non-profit technology conference for a long time, there’s a lot of companies who’ve been helping non-profits developed this brand, but the content that is supporting the brand has to be taken into account too. So it’s not a big step for leadership to take, from supporting the brand to supporting the content that is supporting the brand. Yeah, like there’s, so much overlap with just brand and content. Strategy is the time o que onda geun this all all flows from our mission statement, so that seems like the place to start. Katie and i did talk about that anything you want to add about that non-profits have a built in advantage. They don’t have to worry about what the for-profit companies do because everything should be coming out of their mission and their values when your values driven organization it’s much easier to develop content that has meaning than, say, one, a big company that wants to sell you shoes and thinks that a good way to do that is by showing people succeeding let’s, leave it there, all right, brett meyer is content strategist with think shout and katie caress, director of online communications for the humane society legislative fund. Brett carry katy. Thank you very much. Thinking having real pleasure. Thankyou. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen austin, texas. Thanks so much for being with us. Thanks to everybody at the non-profit technology conference and intend the non-profit technology network. Thank you very much. Next week, two regulars are returning. Amy sample ward and jean takagi if you missed. Any part of today’s show? Find it on tony martignetti dot com. Where in the world else would you go? Opportunity, collaboration, the world convenes for poverty reduction. It’ll ruin you for every other conference, i swear. That’s, true opportunity, collaboration, dot net. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Shows social media is by susan chavez at susan chavez. Dot com on our music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Yeah, with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. 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