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Lauren Girardin & Shari Ilsen: Engagement: Motivating and Measuring
What is real engagement with your networks? How do you achieve it? What are the right metrics to know whether you’re succeeding? My guests are Lauren Girardin, marketing and communications consultant, and Shari Ilsen, director of engagement at VolunteerMatch. (Recorded at NTEN’s Nonprofit Technology Conference (NTC)).df
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Drew Bernard is CEO of ActionSprout and he’s got the tools, strategies and tactics to find your supporters among your Facebook fans. (Also recorded at NTC.).
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host and i want to thank you so much for being with me last week, the two hundredth show wow, that was just great great fund! Now we have to go back to recorded music, but the two hundred show stays in my mind. It was terrific and i’m glad you’re with me because i’d be forced to endure the pain of bronchi actresses if i had to shoulder the burden of knowing that you had missed today’s show engagement, motivating and measuring what israel engagement with your network’s, how do you achieve it? What are the right metrics to know whether you’re succeeding? My guests are lauren girardin, marketing and communications consultant, and shari ilsen, director of engagement at volunteermatch that was recorded at intends non-profit technology conference and t, c and facebook strategies. Drew bernard is ceo of actionsprout and he’s got the tools, strategies and tactics to find your supporters among your facebook fans that was also reported it and recorded at ntc tony’s take two it’s summer i hope you’re taking real time off responsive by generosity siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks generosity siri’s dot com here’s the first of the recordings from ntcdinosaur engagement welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of non-profit technology conference and t c twenty fourteen the hashtag is fourteen and t c with me now are lauren girardin and sherry ilsen lauren is a marketing and communications consultant and sherry ilsen is director of engagement for volunteermatch ladies, welcome hi thank you. Glad you’re both with with me. Thank you very much. Your your workshop topic is you can capture lightning in a bottle motivating and measuring engagement so let’s start with let’s. Start with lauren and let’s start with motivating engagement how what should non-profits be doing differently and better that about about real engagement. The trick with the way to motivate engagement is to keep ramping it up so often will get our communities, and our audience is involved in our cause. And we asked for the same things over and over again and it’s really about figuring out what people have already done and then getting them to take that next step. So if they’ve liked your facebook page to get them to sign a petition to really keep saying there’s, more and more, you can do. We want you to get more emotionally involved with our cause and with our organization on dh sherry. Just liking a facebook page that’s not real engagement? Well, no, but it is important to remember that it can be the first step. It’s a start? Yeah. So it’s just, i think to what lauren said it’s about never being fully satisfied, always thinking about how you can get that person and that particular person more engaged. Okay, andi let’s, stay with you and let’s. Talk about what, what? What forms engagement might take, whether it be facebook or otherwise and we have plenty of time together, you know, twenty five minutes or so. So we’ll have chance tto flesh out some topics, but what does that? What does engagement mean too? To the two of you, i would think that’s a great question, because the truth is engagement means something very different depending on the goals of your organisation and so it’s, always important to keep those in mind for volunteermatch we reach out to different audiences. Tto help connect non-profits and volunteers so with our non-profits our goal is teo get them to use our technology that we provide for free to connect with potential volunteers to help with their missions. And so engagement might be simply learning about what we do or it might be coming to a webinar or it might be just following us on facebook so they can begin to build that relationship with us as a trusted resource. Okay? And lauren let’s talk about going real, real engagement. What is that? What might else about that mean? Yeah, it’s, depending on what your organization does. So i work with a lot of clients who works with teens and youth, and so for them, engagement takes a different model than it might for if you’re trying to engage non-profits so they often will be trying to get used to become more involved directly in the community, so actually to take there sort of online fandom, and they’re online passion and convert that into actual action in person. So whether it’s getting them to write a letter to their congress person or to get them to even just register to vote, which is a big challenge with youth today, so get them really directly involved in in-kind of real world engagement. And so some of this is shifting your digital audiences into that new sort of engagement, which can be a challenge because very often our communication channels are online. I’ve had this guest aria finger ceo of of do something yeah, and there they are notoriously good at engaging, what, thirteen to twenty, twenty five year olds, right? Right and she’s been on the show a couple of times talking about exactly that. A lot of they do a lot with mobile, you’re i assume you’re your clients cherry are doing that, lauren yeah, no, do something not organise a wonderful example of using online in digital communications to get real world engagement there there actually in one of the first non-profit steve snapchat to take their audiences into new engagement levels and actually using them in another session in ten on saturday is an example of really using these emerging technologies to dr engagement in whole new ways and that’s there they’re doing an excellent job with that audience and their look too often as a model by other organizations and the lesson for our organizations that may not be capturing or trying to engage thirteen to twenty five year olds is go where your constituents are. Yes, yeah, it’s, it’s really about, you know, when we in our session, we’re talking. About when you are before you even get to engagement, you need to look at your activity metrics, the things that you are doing to engage your audience is and then the reach metrics that you have, where it’s it’s really about making sure that you’ve got the audience there listening, and so yeah, when you’re looking at your reach metrics, you do need to think about where your audiences are to make sure not only that you have the right number of people listening, but you have the right people entirely right? So it doesn’t help to right now. It’s hard to engage teens on facebook because they’re really not there there, departing from facebook, right? And in very big numbers or they have departed? Yeah, yeah, and they’ve moved to twitter to snapchat to whatsapp and so do something is actually taking that those demographics very seriously and chasing the teen audience where they’ve gone now interesting you you mentioned that they’ve moved to twitter? I didn’t know i didn’t know that i knew that i knew snapchat very popular. More teens now on twitter yeah, they it’s just a conversational tool fourteen so you know twitter, i know that we’re on it for professional reasons for professional conversations, but it’s now just used for that direct messaging is more private and so that’s feature a twitter that has been working for youth audiences all the gm gm, right. Okay, charlie let’s. See a little more about these reach metrics in these activity metrics before you start to engage. What? What? What? What can you add to what? Lawrence? Well, one thing i like about lawrence model that she’s presenting in our session is that she actually starts before the activity she starts with capacity. So, it’s it’s really important to consider the capacity that you and your organization have to run this campaign, be strategic about how you design it, to make sure that you can actually handle what you need to be doing. And then i think that’s very sound. I mean, i think a lot of non-profits sometimes maybe emulate something that they see another organization did that was successful, or they mohr plan on what they like to be able to like to do versus what they have real capacity and capability to do, right? Yeah, exactly. And i think that the activity metrics in particular, are important to pay attention to for future planning, and what do you mean when you say activity metrics, we’re talking about things like how many tweets you sent out or yeah, how many facebook posts or thie number of blogged articles you comptel, i come from digital communication, the number of small events you run if that’s something you’re doing its part of your strategy as well, because those things could be part of what is it could be create a bottleneck in reaching your goal you could find if you do the analysis that the problem you’re having with reaching your goal for the campaign isn’t with your reach isn’t with your engagement, but in just simply how much you’re doing or the way that you’re doing it. You just tried to tackle too much, too much or too little. And so by tweaking the activity metric, you can often make a big difference down the road in terms of engagement. Okay, excellent. Lauren. I see you. You’re nodding a lot. Yeah, well, so sherry and i, we both come from a lot of digital marketing. And so one of the things that i’ve been working with some clients on is really not just about how off a lot of people ask, how often should i be tweeting shy between every day? Should i be sending five tweet today? And the answer to give them is it depends. It depends on your audiences, and it actually depends on when you’re audiences are online and are on twitter when your audiences are listening. So with your activity metrics it if you look at the number of tweets you’re sending and you’re still not getting the results, you want what you can do to khun try to increase the number of tweets you’re doing or you could look use of the tools that exist in twitter and other tools took find out when people are online and instead of doing more tweets, do tweets at a more appropriate time. So with a kind of mine works with a lot of mothers and they were doing their tweets during their work day because that’s when they’re on line. And it turns out that when they looked at their audience that the mothers are not on twitter during the day they’re at work, they’re with their kids it’s when the kids go to bed on weekdays and on weekends, and so they shifted when they did their tweeting same number of tweet, same amount of effort, just a different publication schedule. The best tweets are like eight thirty or nine o’clock at night, right? Exactly. Ok, ok, and now some of these tools now twitter will give you that when when your when your followers are most online are most active on twitter is not within twitter. Self? Yeah, twitter has that facebook has that in their their insights and then there’s other tools that’ll do that analysis for you, depending on whether you’ve got an enterprise level software or there’s some free tools out there that do that as well. And everyone you want to mention. Lorts zoho i’ve been sticking with the channel tools just because, yeah, they tend to be the most consistent with a lot of the tools that are out there that are free, they sometimes don’t work consistently or they aren’t free forever or they go away. Yeah, that’s always the risk, right? So it’s, the tool suite is sort of a moving target at all times, okay, so you’re working within within each when i can kapin does okay, e-giving anything, the thing getting ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking alternative network to get you thinking. I think. Cubine this’s. The way we’re hosting part of my french new york city guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back french. Is that coming language? Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it common desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them. Share this story. Join us. Pardon my french new york city every monday from one to two p, m. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna all right, so i love this advice about planning, spending time in the planning before you start executing. And i think, okay, cherry let’s, send sherry let’s, say a lot more about that, or let’s, go from that to, like the next stage. Let’s. Start talking about what real engagement looks like. You’ve mentioned a couple of examples. The petition, perhaps what are some other examples of other examples of real engagement? Well, again, it depends on the level of engagement you’re looking for, but for volunteermatch, for example, we feel that anything that gets people thinking about what we do and what we can provide be, you know, one click for us is not necessarily engagement anything beyond the one click anything that’s going to be a little stickier, that’s what we’re going for in terms of an engagement level, what about would that include capturing an email, capturing short email? Yeah, emails and still an extremely effective tool, especially for non-profits anyone that tells you differently, i don’t know it’s is lying in denial email still one of our most effective communications tools. Okay, okay, so let’s, say a little more. We got this little smoke coming in. Or, uh, is that just warm air? Does look hazy. I’m wantto that’s a fog machine for some dance party. That’s going on? Yeah, i don’t hear the music. Okay? We’re just a little way don’t we’re not shooting video but there’s a little fog cloud that just came upon the came upon the stage. I don’t know if it’s cold air meeting hot air either because there was there was a cold breeze, but i don’t know. All right, we’re giving, we’re giving listeners the full experience can’t see it, but we want you to know that it’s happening if you can’t hide it well, i guess i could have hidden it because you can’t see it, but i feel like flaunting it anyway, right? So little cloud is going to seems to be dissipating now, though no one seems to be panicking so nobody’s pointing out, but if they do, you have to finish this interview weigh twelve minutes into it. Now we’re not stopping down with the ship way we may, but we’re taking this interview with us on and in its entirety. Okay, so let’s, say a little more now about about capturing engagement. Lauren, what can you looking at? So, you know, beyond the clique is is often where we want to encourage people to go to really go beyond the light beyond the click, to think about capturing an email or thinking about what action you can ask people to take. So even if it’s it’s a lot of organizations that i work with digitally, they’re not ready to have a big ask they don’t have a petition for folks to sign they don’t have download for them to take, they don’t have something for them to order it right there. They’re not selling a service or a product right that’s those conversion tracking those engagements are easier for people who have something to sell and non-profits often don’t have it. So what sometimes you need to come up with is a creative way to elicit engagement like there are some people to take a photo of themselves doing something in their community or he’s probably seen these a lot in social media, where people will hold up a sign and will use a hashtag to sort of indicate their alignment with an issue by saying something with a sign in an image and that actually takes a lot of effort, and you can take that as a really big indicator of engagement because not only are our people listening to what you’re saying, but now they’re ready to take a personal stance even if it’s not a vote and then what might you do with suppose you collect a dozen or a hundred of these photos? What might you do with them then? Oh, they’re great to share in annual reports and with funders the grantmaker is that i’ve worked with love to see people really putting their face to the cause and those sorts of social campaigns where you get that almost endorsement khun really mean a lot when you’re looking for grant money or for when you’re hoping to get a higher profile press coverage or something like that. Okay, excellent. We’re trying to motivate this engagement events or the photo that’s a and people you know, i think people like to show off themselves. Oh, selfie xero dellaccio yes, now from since the academy awards, even now there is through the roof, but they were popular to begin with, but since ellen took our selfie at the academy awards sherry, anything anything you can add about motivate this engagement? Yeah, i would say, first of all, the type of campaigns that lauren was just describing the user generated content campaigns are great because they are too prominent, you know, they’re double edged, you are getting people more engaged and building a stronger community, and you’re producing content that you, khun repurpose later it’s really such an efficient way to do communications for a non-profit and what i’ve found is that engagement of this type is very similar to fund-raising in that you have to get over this inmate barrier that we have thinking that people don’t want to hear from you people initially took that first step that, like that click they gave you your email because they care they care about your non-profit your cause, your message, or at least they did at that point, so find that colonel and give them another way to get involved show them how they can continue to nurture that a sense of caring that they had it’s, not your like, lawrence said we’re not selling to people were enabling them to do something that they already care about. We just can’t miss that chance. We have to continue engaging people where they are in the way that they want to be engaged. Excellent. I wish listeners could see your face so i think i think i i’m confident i can hear it in your words how passionate you are about that’s outstanding really let’s go let’s, move to the other part of your workshop which is measuring this measuring this engagement on dh let’s you know, let’s, stay with you guys sharing what can you tell us about it? Measure the right things so you’re you’re metrics, especially the major ones that are going to define success, should grow directly from your goals, your organizational goals as well as the goals of the campaign think very strategically about this. Otherwise you’re going to get bogged down in facebook insights and google analytics, and you’re never going to find your way out. All right? So look closely at what the goals of the campaign are on dh find true measures of success around that. When we come, we come, we define it any clearer. I don’t know. Well, i i like to leave listeners with things they can execute, you know, not theory, and i don’t i don’t feel like we’re the theory level, but can we drill down even more into the tactic? Yeah, well, it really helps to start with us, marchal tohave a goal that has metrics already built into it. So when you’re setting out your strategy for your communications, for example, you have to think about what your organization is trying to achieve the impact is trying to have and then you want to make it smart. I want to make it specific, measurable, attainable, relevant and well, people say time down, but i want to say thrilling changes. Yeah, oh, i own my own it smart has been redefined here if your goals are thrilling than your team’s going to stay motivated to to do them, but also to measure them because they’re going to be more meaningful if they’re exciting and a thrilling goal is actually going to lead to a more thrilling campaign and two more thrilling communications, and ultimately, if your communications were thrilling, they’re going to be a lot more engaging, so you’re just bound to have better results if you’re excited and smart girls can get a little wonky in the little dry and we don’t want that, you know, we’re supposed to be passionate about the change we’re trying to create in this world, so smart, thrilling goals get you there. And if you build in the metrics into these smart goals, then it’s a lot easier for you to figure out what to measure as you’re going along. Okay on dh let’s, let’s keep drilling down into what? What? Maybe what are some examples of unwise. Well, i know you’re going to say it all depends what your campaign eso not that answer is barred. You can’t because otherwise we have to end here and i don’t want to end. I know you have more to say, so say it so let’s say more about measuring the right stuff. I’ll leave to you, you need to measure people you need to measure the people that you change the minds that you imbue with knowledge, you need to measure the way that people behave and what changes about them on dh it’s, not it’s, not about pure audience numbers, right? It’s, not about the size of your crowd it’s about the quality, and so we’re really trying tio look at whether or not you’ve made an improvement in people’s lives, those were the things that ultimately you really want to measure them most. Now you might not be able to do that because surveys are expensive and field studies or expensive, but you can look at indicators for those behaviors, so one of the examples that i use is organizations who are trying tio ramp up civic engagement in their community civic engagements. Kind of hard to measure it’s very vague. But you can. You can have a proxy measure, which is voter registrations. So you can actually see if you have more civic engagement in your community by measuring voter registration rates on an actual voting rates in elections. And you can take that as a sign that you’ve had an influence on people, which is what you’re going for. Any online tools that you can offer tools or sites to resource is that you can you can offer either either of you for this helping you measure so one one that we always point people to use google analytics, because so much of what we ask people to do, especially for doing digital marketing communications, is through our websites, and if you use google analytics and you set up your goals and your conversions in google analytics, you can actually track whether people are taking meaningful actions on your website. So it’s not just about page views, but it can be about how long people spend reading your content, whether they look at more than one page, the type of content they’re looking at, whether they complete a form that you’ve got in your sights. So if you have your petitions hosted there, it is pretty important to make sure that you’re getting people to take that step and push that button at the end of whatever process you’re you’re hosting on your site. One of my clients, they do condom orders for teens in california, and for them it is really about the condom wars. Orders are orders. Yes. Get a freak on. What? What could’ve been a campaign? You could’ve kayman condom. Moore’s is also now in very intrigued. And i want to build this think of any right now could be one of the next throwing gold. Yeah, well, they do condom orders for teens so teens can order condoms so that they can have safe sex and prevent unplanned pregnancies. So it’s a really big deal for them to track how many people come to the condom order page to come to that form and actually fill out the form and so that’s a meaningful metric for them and anything they can do to improve and increase that completion rate of that form? Is it really big strategy for them? They want to take it from fifty percent up to seventy five percent, because that just means that they’re creating less barriers for people to take that action. Okay, shari anything one at about using google analytics? Att this point when we go a little further? Yeah, it’s an invaluable tool for volunteermatch not just at the campaign level in terms of online marketing, but for our entire organization are benchmarks are built off of google analytics conversions and goals like i said, we worked to connect non-profits with volunteers, and we measure those connections on our website and then translate that into meaningful insights about the impact we’re having in the world. And how often are you looking at the the analytics? Well, on an organization wide level, we do that quarterly, so we have quarterly reports that show, you know, how much of a social value are we creating? Aw, nah, team level we look overall about once a month, certain tools, of course, or more often, twitter is certainly a weekly tool, if not more often than that. Okay, yeah, and can we go beyond google analytics? You have recommendations for tools beyond google analytics. You’re one of the ones is is any sort of clicked tracking that you can use for social media? So whether it’s usually earl shorter like bentley or you may have a custom one built into your site, where you shorten the links you can share socially, and then you can see how many times they’ve been clicked. And then you can also see which tweets or which shares on facebook are the things that cause those clicks and it’s not about tracking every single tweeter, every single share. So with the client who works with condom orders for teens, they tracked that topic more closely than they track all of their other social media effort, so that helps them not get bogged down by tracking too many things, and the clicks themselves aren’t always the the end result that they’re looking for, but they can see whether or not particular messages are helping direct people to their website, which is where more information is living. Since video is so common, how are the analytics in youtube? Either of you helpful in terms of? I don’t know, i know basic one is how long someone watches a video, so can that be instructive? Tio how long your videos are to be? I don’t know youtube analytics helpful, yeah, so it can be helpful. One of the organizations that i like to look at because they have really great resource is looking at their engagement levels is up worthy, and so they host a lot of videos on their sites, and they’re looking at what they’re calling attention minutes, which isn’t just about the page views that they generate through the sharing that they do of really good messages, but they also look at how long people stay on the page. They look if they play the video, if they watch it all the way through it’s interesting youtube peoples behavior and youtube generally has changed. It used to be short, that is, were the way to go so less than three minutes and youtube itself has been doing some analytics of their data, and they’ve realized that longer videos on youtube often have the best engagement level. People are really looking at youtube is almost kind of like tv now, so it doesn’t have to be short but again, it’s really about what your audiences are are interested. If your audience is on mobile phones, they may not be interested in watching a fifteen minute video. All right, we’re going to wrap up, but shari, anything you want, leave us with around measuring the measuring the right stuff and motivating this engagement. Yeah, i just have one final thought and it’s something that i’ve been discovering myself more and more as i ramp up volunteermatch is engagement and a moment of personal discovery. We’re not in this. Alone and the best resource are the is the brilliance and the tools that have been created by people before us. There are people there are non-profits that are doing a great job of this. So talk to coworkers talked to piers, joined, linked in groups joined, meet up groups in your area and talk to people about what they’re doing because you can copy them. We’re gonna leave it there. Copy cats. But, you know, good advice, really. I love the way you both of you were passionate and and thinking about this on behalf of small and midsize charities. It’s really it’s really inspiring. You’ll have a great session, don’t worry, and i bet this help. I bet this help. Lauren gerard is a marketing and communications consultant and i heard her say she’s, based in new york city, based in san francisco. But i spent a lot of time in based in san francisco and what’s your twitter id girardin l g i r a r d i n l thank you. Sherry ilsen, director of engagement for volunteermatch with your idea on twitter sherri ce ilsen s l s e n thank you both very much. Thank you, durney martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fourteen and t c the non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen thanks very much for being with us. Of course, i’m grateful to everyone at ntcdinosaur non-profit technology network love those folks generosity siri’s they host multi charity peer-to-peer five k runs and walks if you’re using summer, perhaps to plan for your fall or end of year fund-raising they have events coming up in new jersey, miami, atlanta, new york city, philadelphia and toronto. If you think a run walk might make sense for you, then please pick up the phone. You know that’s how i like to do business. Talk to dave lynn he’s the c e o tell him you’re from non-profit radio you’ll get dave at seven one eight five o six, nine, triple seven or, if you prefer, on the web generosity siri’s dot com it’s summer in the united states are you taking care of yourself? I hope that you are. Are you taking riel time off? That’s vacation without work, email without work calls without work, text messages. No work, no contact with work. That is a real vacation. You’re in a e-giving business. You work for a charity that helps other people, whatever it is that you do around charities, whether you’re in one or you’re supporting one or a bunch because you’re a consultant, you’re giving to other people, and if you’re going to give, you’ve got to take and i think take vacations, please take care of yourself so that you can do that giving work for other people, rest your body and your mind. This summer disconnect. I had a listener message me just a couple of days ago, she said, you share your soul with the world, and i’ve been thinking about that a lot and i think she’s right? You know? And when you’re sharing and giving to others willingly, it’s exhausting and you have to take care of yourself, you have to rejuvenate, i’m doing mine the end of august, i’ve got my complete disconnect ten days off the end of august. I hope that you are doing the same for yourself because you are sharing your souls with the world as well. Please be good to yourself this summer, that is tony’s take two for friday, twenty fifth of july, the twenty ninth show of the year. Here’s another interview from the ntc on facebook strategies. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of and t c twenty fourteen were at the wardman marriott hotel in washington, d c with me is drew bernard and his topic at the conferences facebook strategies finding supporters among your fans drew welcome, thank you. Pleasure to have you. Thanks a lot. Beer. Thanks. And thanks for taking time in a busy at a big conference. Teo to sit down. What? What? What do you think? Non-profits aren’t doing so well that they could be doing better in their facebook strategies? You know, i saw mama, i’m a big fan of the word engagement as opposed to building fans growing pages, you know, historically, we were for a long time, organizations were very focused on building fan pages, sort of collecting fans, and if that became the key metric, how many? How many fans do we have? Right? Well, we all kind of know that that that actually turned out not to be a great strategy for the organization now good for facebook, but not necessarily for the mission to the organizations and really the the key piece, so i historically was relatively a crim uh, gin about facebook for years, but a couple of years ago, about a year and a half ago, facebook began to roll outs and changes that allowed us to do somethings where we could engage people on facebook beyond like sharing comment and specifically doing things like signing petitions, running all kinds of different actions on on facebook and the three that the topic that we’ll be talking about tomorrow there’s really three primary things organizations need to be doing on facebook. First of all, they need to be reaching enough people so there’s really no point of participating on facebook if you’re not reaching a meaningful number of people and it turns out that a cz many organizations have learned the hard way fan count and reach are not the same thing facebook doesn’t doesn’t send your you know, each post each each comment out to all of your supporters or all of your fans, you sort of have to earn every every post that goes out has to earn the reach that video to calm that, that it gets to the number of people that gets too and the way you do that. Is by posting content that does get people engaging with it, whether it’s clicking like share comment or something beyond that so reaches the first thing i do. I’m going to stop for a second that you could you turn down the main in the back there’s a bit of a buzz and kind of a little echo on a on the black box. It’s ah button a knob labeled mane okay, i’m sorry, so that’s getting think yes, the reach is sort of the first thing and without reach and i spent spending quite a bit of time talking about reach because reach without reach there’s really no point, if you’re going to reach, you know a handful of people, you probably are better off drinking coffee with them. It’ll probably be protective the second thing once you want, you’re reaching a substantial number of people with content, and it really is a matter about posting content that gets people engaging with it. Because you earn reach and facebook by creating content that engages people facebook wants, you know they’re going to prioritize content, they do prioritise content that gets people engaging with it. So that’s the first thing. The second thing once you’re reaching a substantial number of people is to really be engaging them, tio develop real relationships, so cultivating real relationships with people and not just like clickers. So, you know, historically, the idea that the the key goal of facebook was building awareness where we all know now that awareness alone doesn’t, doesn’t really moved the dial in terms of missions, so it really is about cultivating riel relationships with people and that’s a really that’s a real art it is, it is, except we do it every day, right? I mean, organizations, individuals, you know, one on one, we build real relationship people are, of course, but doing it on facebook, you know, it’s it’s not as much as you might think. It’s it’s it takes things like participating in the comment stream. Eso when you know when a person leaves a comment in the in the news feed. So first of all, i i guess i should back up and say that facebook, for all intensive purposes, really is all about the news feed. Facebook pages are sort of an organization’s brand, but really, nobody goes to the facebook page, everything is in the in the in the end, users, readers, participants news feed on dso earning a place in that news video, that the first piece and that’s that’s the reach peace, and then really the second piece around around thie sort of cultivating real relationships. It is an art, but it’s really just more about being a paying attention to it being being thoughtful about it. This is not a place to come and blast out communications it’s really a place to come and participate in dialogues and discussions. And i like to the idea of being thoughtful and that’s the way we conduct ourselves, hopefully in our face-to-face in our time related really is different. You want to be a thoughtful person, that’s, right? That’s, right? So and then the other the other part of that is also giving people things to do inside a facebook that go beyond clicking like, you know, clicking like share comment those air required in order to accomplish riel reach you need to do those things so reaches is is accomplished by creating content that gets shared, gets engagement, then the second piece is is giving people things to do beyond beyond those things. Whether it’s signing petitions, you know, joining an organization in thanking volunteers, you know, joining joining an organization organization in celebrating victories, successes, all kinds of different actions things there that are more meaningful than just i like this piece of content. And what we find is that about ten percent of people who engage with a with an organization’s post will often go on to take a deeper action. And those are the things that really that really matter, right? So in the in the you know, boots on the ground world in the real world, we build real relationships with people by engaging with them over time and in deeper ways over time. You know, you person you know, first becomes aware of an organisation, it might start tracking that organization and then slowly becomes more and more involved. And the same thing happens in facebook so that cultivation pieces the second critical piece without that it’s really? You know, facebook’s never really going to provide a a measurable return on investment. So we have the reach cultivation. You were hitting that’s, right? Three main three main points. Yeah. So cultivation is the second piece and in order to do that, of course, you gotta have you got be reaching enough people, you’ve got e-giving them things to do that that are meaningful and that that relate to the mission, and then the third piece is conversion or capturing data. So, you know, facebook at this point is only delivering, you know, you’re an organization’s posts to a small percentage of their fan count, so, you know, if an organization has ten thousand fans, they’re they’re very luckily, they’re very lucky of facebook’s delivering those posts to one thousand of those so ten percent is there’s a high number? It was, you know, a year ago, they were saying was fifteen it’s down now, however, organizations who are posting content that’s designed to be engaging are still seeing high levels of delivery rate, so that but that third piece, though, is about converting people into email addresses into other types of other types of data. So the organization’s contract those relationships and get to know them overtime. So one of the things that’s super fun to do within actionsprout is we have a little people tab, and we put this in almost as an afterthought. Um, but what? It does is we track anybody who likes her comments on a post that has an action in it. We tracked that person we capture first name, last name, ah little bit of facebook data even before they often app or fill out any forms, and we begin to track their engagement in their activity with that person within facebook over time. But ultimately, that doesn’t really help facebook’s going. You’re still at the mercy of facebook delivering your message to those people until you have an email address until you have some other way to reach them, so the third piece is converting them and getting them into your database so you can you can build a list of people that, you know, you know, have signed, given petition given petitions or have taken pledges or joined you in thanking volunteers or donors or whatever those things are but critically important issue can also reach out to them via e mail for fund-raising for you to continue that relationship building off of facebook as well, and if they’re younger, they might prefer texting, you might have a text channel engagement through through mobile. Yeah, i mean so, so facebook is that channel for most? For most people, about sixty percent of all mobile sharing today is actually through facebook on dh facebook is your facebook is a mobile tool more so than the desktop tulani more you know, for us well, over sixty five, seventy five percent of all actions that get taken are actually taken on either mobile devices or tablets, so that the percentage of of activity on facebook that’s happening on the desktop is dropping dramatically. Facebook’s been investing ah lot as you, as we all saw, with their what’s up acquisition in mobile, i mean, that’s that’s their top between monetizing the news feed and really figuring out the mobile piece that’s that really is the two priorities i would. I would say that facebook has. Okay. All right. So let’s, spend all time more detail in in each of these three areas that that you outlined drew so reaching, you know, you raise it, earning a place in their in their news feed. How do we can you share some more details? How do we how do we earned that spot? Yeah mean, so so. So content is king. Just as in any any? Communication channel understanding how to create great content that is highly effective with your target audience is key and the way, the way we advise our the organizations who use actionsprout is, we talk about the eighty twenty rule, and we highly recommend that roughly eighty percent of the content that an organization pushes out on its wall has already had some evidence has already proven to have some potential to be engaging on facebook, you know, we say it as having some viral potential, although the word viral there’s often a dirty work out of times, but but something that you’ve already seen work elsewhere, it could be something that, you know, a post that you’ve pushed out before it could be opposed that one of your ally organizations has has been running that’s been doing well, and you’re learning from that s o it’s content that you’ve already seen work before, so so finding great content and either reusing it or or using it, we have a little tool inside of of actionsprout and a little free, actually a free tool as well that you can get to on our website that they’ll allows you to go in. And search any any page inside a facebook the free one does you go and you say i want i want i want to do a quick report on this page and we’ll surface the top performing content within that within that that page in the inspired tool inside of facebook, what we do is we track any pages that the page that you’re paige likes. So if you’re paige likes twenty, thirty pages that relate to your work, we monitor those and we surface the top performing content across those those that that content has already proven to work. So it’s already gotten higher than average engagement for those pages, so so looking for content that and by the way, are those your ally organizations, the ones that that i’ve liked your page, not necessarily that they’ve like yours? You’ve like that? I’m sorry, so the key is to is to go in and set it up so that your any page that you want to be tracking you have in the system, and then we’ll serve us that there’s a tool called crowd tangle that does something similar and at a different level hold more sort of much. More sophisticated level that’s also designed for the same thing. So looking for content that’s already been successful in this way is key. Interesting. And i like the idea that you’re bringing in other people’s content that that’s been successful. I don’t think a lot of organizations are thinking that way. I mean, i think they’re thinking we have to generate our own it’s starting people are starting to understand it. We definitely you starting to see it on on more and more pages where organizations understand that the way i described it is, you know, eighty percent of your content should should have some proven potential. Write thie other twenty percent should be should be, you know, original and is this is easy is sharing. Another page is sometimes it’s a simple on your page. Absolutely sometimes it’s just a simple is doing that it could be a great post. It could be a great mean that that goes out and the action the call to action could simply be thank you, this organization for their great work, right? So you could call out the organization for the great work that they do and you could simply say, join us in thanking them. And that could be the action that you’re engaging someone beyond. Life oppcoll excellent. So so, that idea of looking for content that’s already proven to be successful, reusing that content, sometimes it’s literally just copying it, pacing it into your news feed. Sometimes it’s getting inspiration from somebody else’s stuff. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We liked the idea of having a calendar that is not just a, you know, thinking ahead calendar, but literally looking at your own at the organization’s mission and thinking throughout the year, what are the top dates? What what dates when important things have happened? Let’s spin up some actions around those let’s let’s do some posts that celebrate, you know, it’s, an environmental group, the birthday of yellowstone was one that sierra club did recently that didn’t very, very well for them and and let’s ask people to celebrate with us and taken action beyond clicking like on the post. So so reaches is, you know, great content. I should say that twenty percent that you do of your own the original content, eighty percent of that will fail so it’s that sort of that that’s the the unfair advantage is to those organizations who are looking for proven successfully, successful content, reusing it or learning from it and posting stuff similar and if there are organizations primarily using their own content, which i realize is not contrary to what you’re recommending, but if they are doing that and if your statistic is right that eighty percent of what they’re producing is failing then it’s not eighty percent of twenty percent it’s eighty percent of their of their entire yeah, and i think hyre content, you know, this is, of course using the flippant eighty twenty rules, but but we’ve see hundreds and hundreds of organizations running thousands and thousands of posts and without a doubt the organizations who are reusing their own content, reusing other people’s content, learning from that content and tweaking it are far more successful than those who were trying to be creative every day. Yes, okay, definitely. Why not something else? That’s ah sort of cliche, but, you know, why reinvent the wheel when when there are there are multiple potential sources, these ally organizations that are working as well, why not capitalize on what they’re doing and what what you’ve seen be successful that they’ve done that’s right? That’s, right, and it’s important to give credit where credit’s due also almost crowdsourcing you’re content, and what is it you think about facebook? Facebook is a sharing platform, right? I mean the, you know, ninety nine percent of what you engage with on facebook, it’s stuff that was shared and and and this is just another form of that. So, yes, so reach, you know, looking for content that’s already been proven is something that really does help a lot from a reach standpoint. Okay, we’re gonna move on because surely have ah, maybe just for five minutes left. And i want to talk a little more detail about each of these cultivating, getting, you know, providing things for people to do calls to actions, say, it’s a little more about this. Yeah, i mean, that’s what that’s, what actions? That’s what the impetus for creating actionsprout was the idea that that we finally are in a position now given facebook’s ap eyes for us to give people things to do inside the facebook that that have the potential to deepen our relationship bond. So the any any action you know, the inn in creating a petition offline, it takes a lot of work you’re creating, you know, you have to you have to go in, you create a form on a on a website you often have to create a you know, big e mail blast that it’s the overhead involved in creating a full on campaign is pretty high. So what? We wanted to do with with actionsprout ist create a very simple five minutes or less type of action, that’s something you can give anybody an action to take. So, andi, the example i gave earlier you, if you’re you’re posting a great mean from another organization and in it you want to give that organization credit for that mean, you know, thanks sierra club for the great image instead of saying thanks sierra club for the great image, you can invite people to join us in thanking sierra club for their great work that’s an action that goes beyond your courage or your encouraging them to go to syria, not necessarily the fact that actually click on our work here. If you click on that, you’re being then driven into the app buy-in and users driven onto the apple on the organization’s page and can complete the action with a single with a single click. So so that’s an example of an action doesn’t you don’t have to have you don’t have to use actionsprout tio could have people do actions beyond by any means. In fact, one of the organizations of that that uses actionsprout is that daily? Coast who’s been running actions for years on their facebook page, and they’re what they’ve done over the years. They’ve trained their audience on facebook to be engage er’s so their conversion rates are incredible on dh they have an incredibly active audience that people who want to do things the way they’ve done that in the past is they’ve simply driven them off to a website to fill out a you know, on a campaign landing page which works as well. It’s not it’s, not his viral, so with with actionsprout every time someone takes an action, we have about nine hundred that that action gets shared about nine hundred times within facebook, which is because we front load all the viral, but but that’s an example of an oven oven action. So whether it’s a petition, you know, a pledge, whatever those things are driving action from facebook is important, so that so from a from a cultivation standpoint, it’s those additional actions beyond, like comment and share that you can track there deep in those ways, a lot people would call that engagement ring totally isn’t feeling engagement, absolutely just a minute or so men and a half left or so let’s talk a little more detail about conversion, which, you mean capturing data. I mean, capturing data, we can be in touch with you beyond facebook that’s, right? Yeah. So, i mean, really, these things were all as you guys, you can tell they’re all extremely intertwined, you know, without reach, you don’t have god with you don’thave convert any kind of cultivation or or reach right without it, without engagement, you don’t have reach this said the third piece around conversion really is about data capture and the data capture you know, we this was something that no one would even is sort of a non topic in just about any other space other than social. But the idea of really capturing and tracking the engagement of people from facebook or on facebook into your c r m is is sadly knew, but really powerful, okay, we’re going to leave it with just give us a tip that that’s not actionsprout dependent for how to convert and captured from data let’s just say it’s an email address? Yeah, i mean, any any action that you’re driving from your any post that you’re pushing out that is that’s doing well or will do well? It’s has any viral potential that doesn’t have a call to action that drives a person somewhere, whether it’s actionsprout whether it’s your website, you know, petition form or whatever that drives someone that doesn’t have a link in it to do something beyond clicking like is a missed opportunity to capture data, okay? And if you’re driving them to your website, then there might be a window box that asked for an email petition, of course, but that’s right could be a simple, you know, sign up could join in, like, go like, yeah, see how out of touch and window boxes. Hyre planter that’s, right, but put your tulips out the spring’s coming put them in the planter box planter box pops up now yeah, lightbox, whatever it is. So any any post that you push out that doesn’t have something for your most ardent supporters to do beyond that? The ones that are ready to do something more than just click like on the post is a missed opportunity. Okay, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you very much. He’s drew is ceo and co founder of actionsprout which i’m sure you’ll find it actionsprout dot com drew, thanks very much. Thank you. Pleasure. It’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc twenty fourteen. Thanks very much for being with us. My thanks again to everybody at ntcdinosaur and the non-profit technology network next week, maria semple is with me she’s, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder. Our diet of dirt cheap and free you know her. If you missed any part of today’s show, you can find it on tony martignetti dot com. Please remember generosity siri’s, dave lynn seven one eight, five o six, nine, triple seven or generosity siri’s dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz, he’s at the board he’s, our line producer shows social media is by julia campbell of j campbell social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Our music is by scott stein what a thrill it was to have him in the studio last week. You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, waiting to get me to thinking. E-giving cubine. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. 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I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking.