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Matthew Scharpnick: Design Strategy
Matthew Scharpnick has thoughts on what good design is, why it’s important and how to achieve it. What is design strategy and why the heck is Charity Water talked about so much? Matthew is co-founder and chief strategy officer of Elefint Designs.
Amy Sample Ward: Digital Strategy
Highlights of the 2015 Digital Integration & Outlook Report, released this week. We’ll look at trends in staffing, strategy, engagement and more. Amy Sample Ward is our social media contributor and CEO of NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network.
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host it’s the valentine’s edition happy valentine’s day! I’m going to shout out np valentine’s throughout the show and here is the first one roses are red, sunshine is warm, mayor love go on forever like a nine, ninety form look, i love that one that’s jesse anna, born eamon in suwannee, tennessee and she’s at rhymes with messy on twitter at rhymes with messy love it we have a listener of the week oh my goodness! They are incredible fans of non-profit radio why? W c of monterey county, california eliminating racism, empowering women they love the show today they just tweeted, how do we love non-profit radio and tony m let us count the ways and they’re all listening today. Each of them is listening today. Sam, should i do it? I got the list. Who? Who cares what sam says? It’s, my show. I’ll do whatever the hell i want. Shut up, sam. What do you see? A monterey county, of course. The administration staff germaine patricia chelsea. Hello, chelsea. Fabiola! Danielle! Leon! Ella! Danielle! No! One was daniel danielle rosa, cheryl hello, cheryl mccormick, molly sikora. Emanuel got to get the clinical supervisors rosa and lose have tohave the pre licensed therapists in there brenda leigh, anne marie, tsa, enrique, carmen, ana, christina marie, tsa, maria elizabeth and mary ann. And, of course, where would wide wch monterey be without the domestic violence advocates? They’d be nowhere. Diana, angie, maria, ludmila, lucinda, rachel and of course, can’t forget marissa robe lace the y w c a of monterey county, our listener of the week congratulations! Thank you so so much for loving non-profit radio i’m glad you’re all with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of triskaidekaphobia if i came to learn that you missed today’s show it’s d s day that’s not domination and submission it’s designed strategy and digital strategy design strategy. Matthew scharpnick has thoughts on what good design is, why it’s important and how to achieve it? What is designed strategy and why is charity water talked about so much? Matthew is co founder and chief strategy officer of elephant designs digital strategy highlights of the twenty fifteen digital integration and outlook report released just yesterday it’s cutting edge we’re gonna look at trends in staffing, strategy, engagement and more, amy sample ward is our social media contributor and ceo of inten, the non-profit technology network between the guests on tony’s take to have mohr and p valentine’s and my latest standup comedy gig responsive by generosity siri’s they host multi charity five k runs and walks very glad that master scharpnick matthew scharpnick can be with me today. He’s, a design strategist and researcher, as well as user experience and information designer he’s, co founder and chief strategy officer of elephant designs. He runs the design blawg redesigning good for the chronicle of philanthropy, and he has written for stanford social innovation review dot net magazine and others on twitter he’s at mat sharp a ch aarp and his company is at elefant designs dot com that’s e l e f i n t matthew scharpnick welcome to the show. Hey, tony, thanks for having me. My pleasure. I’m glad you’re with us. Why is designed? Oh, thank you. Why is designed so important, matthew, i think this side is important for a lot of reasons. I think it might be important to think about what design is when we answer. That question, you know, a lot of people when they think of design think of visual design, and that is certainly a critical, important part of a lot of things, and we can talk about that. But design, in a broader sense, could be thought of as just the intentional act of creating things and really understanding how everyone’s going to consume that product or service, and putting a lot of intentionality and effort and energy into crafting that experience for people. So i think with that broader definition, it’s really the ability to create things that are going to work really well for different audience. And so what we do specifically at elephant is look at how design can play out across a number of different things that non-profit organizations and ngos and other good causes they’re trying to do so there’s things like service design, which can be actually crafting the processes and services that people use, whether it could be a branding, which is something that i think a lot of organizations and the social sector are now really paying a lot more attention to basic information design obviously went designed so it’s a broad category and you specifically say, you know, doing this with intentionality and effort, so we’re talking about more than a new logo or a new tagline or new colors on the website? Yeah, that’s, right? I think you know, those are all the deliverables. Yeah, those are small pieces, right? Exactly. And so it’s not uncommon that people come to our design studio and they’re thinking directly about the deliverables. So maybe they wanted info graphic or maybe they want a logo, and what we always encouraged people to do is to take a step back and that’s what we call ourselves the strategic design studio because our approach to things it’s really to say okay, well, let’s, look at, you know, what is the goal of this? Why do we want an intro graphic? Maybe an infographic isn’t actually the best way for us to achieve the goal that we’re trying to achieve, or even if it is let’s really think critically about who these audiences are, what we need to create them. And how would you describe this is this is very ethereal stuff, and this is, you know, it’s, a highly skilled profession, i know, but you know you’re you’re best shot. How would you describe good design? Um, i think good design is designed that is effective designed that really delights people that helps people understand what the goals are behind that designed without having to pay a lot of effort into it. So where i see designed being this amazing compliment strategy is probably a lot of listeners, if they’ve been involved in any kind of consulting project, would have seen the deliver bowl at the end of that as some kind of long report. I know when i was a director of marketing for non-profit we often have fund-raising consultant, consultant, different people that would come in, and they would deliver something like that, and it was really great information. These were experts that really knew what they were talking about, but i think the unfortunate side that i saw was that very few people would ever access this information. They might deliver a report that the ceo and i were the only ones who saw it, and it would be something that i would maybe review a couple of times a year, and what i realized was that when you took the strategic insights and you bake them into a design, then people just get it? So i think, really effective design and you’re right, it it isn’t a serial question we could we could probably spend a lot of time just exploring that one question, but i think on a high level, if you just get what an organization is about, what it’s trying to do, what values are without really having to think about it too much, then they’ve probably done a good job of crafting their brand and creating really quality design, and you should be able to get that from just your your first moments. Looking at their sight? Yeah, i mean, i think you know again website is a very common touchpoint most people you know, when you hear about an organization of any kind, the station very likely to hop onto their website, and so that’s obviously one of the most important pieces tow any organizations brand but a brand extends obviously much more than just its website and there’s other visual deliverables know there’s collateral materials there’s alone, though there’s all these other things that people touch, but a brand is really this summation of feelings that people have about an organization. So it’s your website talks about how you’re a very caring organization and that when people go to interact with your staff, they find them to be a little bit of luke or they don’t give them very good service. Then you’re telling two contradictory stories and eventually that starts to fall apart. So i think one of the things where, you know, someone might just be going into it thinking, oh, brand, we need to design our logo on our website, but when you start to expand these questions of what your values are and looking at all the different places where people interact with your organization, it really opens up the opportunity for organizations to think about this in a broader way, and you obviously want to build a brand that’s very authentic to who you are is an organization because if you’re trying to make claims that don’t really resonate with the experience that people having out world and eventually it’s gonna fall apart on you know who you are and what your work is, what your mission is, we’re going, we’re going to go out for a break a couple seconds, we come back, of course, matthew scharpnick and i’m going to keep talking about this, including, bring in your mission and how do boardmember sze sometimes get in the way of good design? Stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We’re watching the hashtag non-profit radio of course in the studio give local america hope you joined in said you were going to be joining us. I hope you’re with us. Oh my gosh, live listener love falls church, virginia salinas, california or we know who that is. That’s the y w c a of monterey county. Glad you’re with us. Congratulations again, locust grove, virginia i’m a nominee. Wisconsin, bellevue, washington love it up in the pacific northwest and all the way down here to hicksville, new york on long island. Lots more live listener loved to come. Lots more here’s, another mp valentine that i love. My database was pierced by cupid’s love dark you caught my eye when you wealth screened my heart heimans that’s fabulous that is ah, we did it there at we did it. And why? See on twitter love that we’ll screen to my heart matthew let’s let’s talk about mission and and design is that is that’s the place to start o r now? Yeah, sure. Okay. Thanks. Yes, s so how do we how do we how do we? Convey our mission through good design in this i think this is what we’re talking about strategic design strategy and strategic design. Yeah, for sure. Um, i think there’s a few components to you, no one is obviously met judy, so a lot of the work we’re doing with people is crafting a really clear and concise message elearning before, for example, designing somebody’s website will almost always be involved in writing the copy on the home page and a few of the other key pages and there’s, just ways that design plays into your messaging. So if you’re showing something visually, perhaps with a picture or even just feelings and values that you’re trying to communicate, then that doesn’t always have to be communicated through text as well. Your copy so a classic example that i probably used way too much, but i think they do an amazing job of it that everyone’s familiar with his apple. You know you don’t have on apple’s website, and they have to tell you again and again about you know, how they care about design and how they build really quality products that delight people. They will mention things like that for. Sure in there, copy, but it’s also just built into everything that they do and all you know you’ll see billboard ads that apple does and it’s just a picture of the newest vote. There’s actually absolutely no messaging it’s pretty remarkable that you’ve been able to build a brand where all you have to do is show a picture of your product at a certain angle, and we’ve all seen how successful they’ve been by really integrating design and i think and a lot of ways, steve jobs was ahead of his time and now, and he unfortunately doesn’t even get to see this there now by far the largest company by market capitalization, and i think you’re starting to see more and more companies who are getting this the private sector and indefinitely this is moving over into the social sector where really crafting powerful variances for your customers is important more than anything else. And there’s actually a big pushed back by a lot of larger companies now towards focusing on shareholder value and there’s a lot of people out there marc benioff just wrote a piece on it he’s obviously doing a lot of work with his foundation of how we really need to focus on the individual, and so i think we can sometimes fall into the same trap two in the social sector, i’m getting a little bit off track here, but of course, your mission at the end of the day is teo reach out to the clients that you’re trying to serve and to create a better world but there’s a lot of pressures, you’re also running an organisation that requires donors to fund that organization, have the resources you need to do your job, so a lot of attention gets put on that. And so i think one of the things that we stumbled into and elephant was multiple audiences coming from two very different directions and having to understand your mission that way, you typically see in an organization that it has a board of directors which usually in most cases, lives a little bit a little bit different lifestyle comes from a different place than the clients that you’re trying to serve. Both of those might be different from the staff so it’s just understanding that your organization is really serving multiple types of people and making sure that you’re accomplishing not and communicating that all the time, something that i think design is a great reminder of and the process of designing great exploration you led us into that exactly led us into that process a little bit. This is so really it’s fascinating to me. You’re you’re starting with an organization’s mission and that may be, you know, expressed in seventy five hundred words, and then what’s the what’s, the creative process too translate that into identity on on websites, facebook pages, collateral materials and all that stuff you mentioned help us help us see into that your mind that that process? Yeah, sure, i think for us, it’s really depends on the project and the resources were dedicating to it. If we’re doing something that’s small for us, maybe one of the simplest projects will work on it like a static prince, one page piece or even an infographic or something like that. And on every project, even on those kind of simpler, smaller projects will do something with a strategy and branding document that’s our peace that we send out to our clients have him fill out and it asked questions like, why does your organization exists what was missing from the world, the new guy’s felt this organization had to be created woman that need that you were trying to fill its rhythm, and then we go into things like who you’re different audiences, and we have people rank them, and we have people talk about what are the specific things you want to do with each of those audiences? So it’s really an exploration of where they’re trying to go with all of those things? And once we get that information back from them, then we start thinking about okay, what are the messages that are going to resonate with these people, what’s going on in their life that matters to them? And how is this organization an important part of their life? And then that that sort of in between today that leaves us with things like interaction design, so on print piece that might be sketching things out, she kind of see where pieces go before you worry too much about the polish of visual design, but if you’re looking at things like a website, obviously user experience design is its own field and latto complexities to it, but understanding how. People move through side understanding the hierarchy of information what’s most important, trying to create experiences that are going to leave different types of people, that information, you know, some people are gonna want to watch a video that’s going to be the first thing they go toe on site. Other people will never watch a video just because they don’t like interacting with websites in that way. So we kind of look at all that stuff, and then it eventually moved into visual design, and when we’re looking at larger project, maybe it’s renaming an organization or maybe an organisation is trying to be the leader in their space about changing the way an entire population thinks about a particular issue, then we’ll often go out and well meet with many, many constituents of that organization, so we might spend a day or multiple days meeting with staff with clients, with partner organizations with a wide variety of people and understanding what their current perception of the organization is, what the ideal organization would look like to them and it’s very interesting, because you often find that there’s contradictions, or you find that there’s a lot of overlap that everybody’s seeing. And you kind of learn where you need to put your energy after that. As you do, these redesign projects, buy-in boardmember sze can sometimes be an obstacle. And you have an article in the chronicle of philanthropy from just last month. On this subject, you, uh, you’re concerned that redesign projects get cem. Participation from people aren’t really qualified. Tio teo comment to the degree they do. Yeah, this is something that we’ve seen, and i hope that, you know, the board members out there don’t don’t feel unappreciated and feel like they’re getting picked on for this and it’s certainly not that way and there’s a lot of great board members who are contributing so much to organizations, but for some reason, what we’ve seen a number of times is that i think because design doesn’t always feel as technical, and i think this is changing as people see how sophisticated design is becoming and hope coming so much, you know, more widespread, i think people views on this air changing, but i think, you know, people have designed opinions that they make every day they have, they’re different some people want this color shoe or that colored clothing or this color car, or they liked the design of this house or not this house. And so as people who have subjective opinions, i think sometimes we feel that, you know, yeah, i i weigh on on on on this logo just like i would weigh in on which car i want to buy, and maybe they don’t always realize that there’s a lot of thought. That goes into that, and so some of the things i was touching on in that article was that we’ve seen processes get derailed at the end, where we’ve put a lot of time and energy working with an organization, they’ve had a team from the beginning, we’ve really gone through this process that we just described of understanding the goals and the audiences, and then toward the end of that time, someone might jump in and just thrown opinion out there that they don’t like a particular color or style without really understanding where we’re trying to go. And, you know, there’s a lot of other psychological factors in there, too, and i don’t know we have a lot of time to get into all of them, but some things just like, you know, people, sometimes i feel like they want something new, and then when it actually comes time to get something new, they’re a little worried what they’re going to lose because there’s a lot of equity and history and what in their existing brand, no fear is like that, and you have an interesting analogy that you wouldn’t find this level of interference if it was. A financial consultant and financial advisor and a ah ah financial plan was being presented to the board. Yeah, i think that’s, right? And i think that something like finances seem very technical and tender, not get the same issue. Hopefully, hopefully, this is changing. I don’t. Do you believe it is? Do you see this? Changing that design is getting more respect and for the art and science that it is? Absolutely. When we started our company just about five years ago, our conversations were always having to convince the social sector organizations why design was so important and show them how the private sector is using it. Why it matters. And we rarely have to have that conversation anymore. We see that people just get that designed the critical part of the successful organization. And what what can we suggest that could help overcome the the obstacles of last minute changes in criticisms, et cetera from the board? Well, they approached that we usually take is we try to create a framework, especially on larger design projects on smaller ones. You sometimes don’t get this much. But when you’re doing something like renaming an organization or changing its logo things that are i feel very foundational people are very attached to it. We like to create a framework where we say here’s our goals and here’s what we’re trying to do in any designs could go through that. So if someone suggests the change, we should say, okay, well, let us know how that change is going to help us achieve our goals, and sometimes that will help that person articulate why they’re change is important, and everyone else will get to see why they should listen to them, and other times the person will say, well, you know what? This was actually just an opinion of mine, and i can’t really just buy-in might say, well, maybe maybe we don’t need to make that change that, and it gives them a little better way to have that conversation. And if that person had been involved early in the process, their opinion could have been assimilated in yeah, exactly. And that’s, one of the things we say in the article, you know, if you can figure out who our decision makers who are going to be weighing in who have the power to derail something if they’re not involved certainly try to involve that as early as possible, so their concerns could be built into the process that address, if we have a limited budget, which a lot of non-profits do, how can we prioritised what, what, where we should spend our money in in design? Durney yeah, i get this question a lot on dh it’s either that question or more one which is, you know, with our limited budget where’s, the best place we can go to for design, and i think, you know, there’s always going to be certain things like you get what you pay for, and i think there’s other areas where you can cut some corners and still have a pretty good job, so there’s product tie solutions that are out there, so when we have organizations that come to us and their budget is nowhere near what we tend to work with, we point them towards something like a a template for a sight like square space where they’ve got pre built websites for somebody and that’s something it’s not going to be incredibly unique, you can’t do everything you want with it, but if you’re just starting out, if i not be the best idea to invest your entire budget into building the most beautiful worksite ever as much as we like doing that work and wanted to see that that’s not necessarily where you need to go. And i think in terms of prioritizing which kind of designed, it goes back to strategy for me, it’s understanding, you know, where are the points that really matter for some organization? If going after their clients rarely involves any kind of digital interaction, and they get most of their money from a single foundation that they apply for through a grant or they get it through high net worth individuals that they go and talk to in person, then they probably don’t need to be spending all of their money on the website when they really is not responsible for them to do that, but they don’t have the funds. So i think, it’s just understanding, you know, just asking those questions about what really matters. Where do people get that information? And then that will hopefully guide them to make those choices is obviously a little bit hard to answer general question like that specifically, but i think, you know there’s a lot of ways to think about that. You gave it your best shot. It was admirable on dh valuable. We just have a couple of minutes left about a minute and a half or so you have a theory about why charity water is gets so much attention is talked about so much. Yeah, it’s really funny almost every non-profit conference to go to our design is mentioned, they’re brought up. I think they’ve made design of priority from day one and they’ve really invested in it, and all of their materials was really beautiful and they just create really great work. And unfortunately, and this is, you know, one of the things we try to address every day the social sector has been a little bit behind some other things were maybe there’s more resource is there may be people have understood the importance of design a little bit earlier, you know, i think when people look for really great examples of design, charity water is one of the ones that they are able to find that consistently does a good job. Matthew, just about a minute we have left would you tell me what it is? That you love about the work that you do. Yeah, i mean, great to do work where you feel like you’re making a difference in the world, and i think we have a skill our team does that so many organizations need and it’s just a great environment to get to be around people every day who are doing this kind of work, and then for us internally to get to be around people who want to put their energy and disporting these kind of organizations and it’s great to see that that’s what people have chosen to investor energy mathos scharpnick you’ll find him on twitter at mat sharp s ch aarp and the company is elephant e l e f i nt designs matthew. Thank you so, so much. Thank you. My pleasure. Have you, tony, take two and amy sample ward on design strategy are next. First generosity siri’s you know them? They talk about well, i talk about them. They host multi charity five k runs and walks. That means if you’re small, shop isn’t going to get enough runners. Tau host your own event because you can’t have twenty, twenty five people on ghost. Ah ah! Run around that you work with generosity, siri’s. And they bring a bunch of small and midsize shops together, and then you have three hundred fifty or four hundred runners and walkers and you have a great event. You have fun, yeah fund-raising you have community small shops coming together, i’ve hosted a couple of their rmc together, i should say a couple of their runs and i’m doing another one that’s coming up in brooklyn in a month or so, and besides brooklyn, they have one coming up in northern new jersey and also miami, florida talk to dave lin. You know, i like to pick up the phone and talk to people. Pick up the phone. He’s the c e o tell him you’re from non-profit radio seven one eight five o six. Nine triple seven yes, they have a beautifully strategically designed website. Also, of course generosity. Siri’s dot com. I did a stand up comedy gig last month in new york city. Your basic stories of unrequited to seventh grade love and revenge and dating and law school. The video is at tony martignetti dot com couple more np valentine’s that i saw this morning from past guest professor brian mittendorf at binghamton university. In upstate new york, which is not far from our affiliate, geneva community radio on seneca lake, brian writes, dear valentine with you, i always have donorsearch vise dh fun. All right, professor mittendorf that’s like that’s like a b plus or so it’s. Probably only a b but there’s a lot of subjectivity in greeting. So go for the b plus i saw one from suzanne perry the very instant that i saw you. My heart. Oh, sorry. The very instant that i saw you. Did my heart want to do a randomized controlled trial to show our love would be effective? The’s mp valentine’s are the brainchild of the chronicle of philanthropy. They are at philanthropy on twitter. Of course, lots of people know that, and i think amy sample word is going to share a couple of mp valentine’s. Also, that is tony’s take two for friday, thirteenth of february sixth show of this year. Amy sample ward you know her she’s with us often because she’s, our social media contributor, and she’s also the ceo of intend the non-profit technology network, our most recent co authored book is social change anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement. Her blob is amy sample, war dot or ge, and on twitter she’s at amy r s ward the arm’s for rene welcome back, amy sample ward, thank you for having me happy friday the thirteenth thank you. Happy friday to you and happy valentine’s day. You don’t want to get a shot of valentine’s day is also oregon’s birthday is it really organs birthday? Oh, how cool, then why don’t you give a special shout out to our new affiliate? Km jozy down in salem and kaiser awesome! I am so excited about that. I’m going to send them on twitter, valentine actually very thoughtful because you’re in portland and they’re in there and down in the mid willamette valley. How far is that from you? Well, lam it lam it. Oh, thank you very much. You corrected me on oregon years ago. I know now. It’s, oregon. We’ll lam it there in the mid well, willamette valley. How far is that from you in in portland, portland’s? Kind of the top of the willamette corridor. So the kind of the next three hour drive south. Okay, they’re in the mid well amit corridor talking like an oregonian. We’re going to do my best anyway, you have this little report that you intend was involved with on on digital strategy. Once you acquaint us with this twenty fifteen digital integration and outlook report, sure. So this just launch publicly yesterday. Twenty fifteen digital outlook report and folks can download it from the web for free. We partnered with care too, and h j c and it was a bit of a balding conversation is all research projects are. But the original impetus was trying to figure out as this conversation even the conversation with matt, the first half of the show around digital strategies and multi-channel campaigns and all those things, they really they really require people from all across an organization. Often they tackle all different channels there. Normally, you know, a big strategy and lots of tactics to get there. And we wanted to figure out what that looked like in practice in organizations. What is it? What does it mean to staff and train your staff for that kind of approach? So from there we created this survey, like i said would care to an h j c looking at staffing, looking at what? Those strategies. Are but then also, you know, what are your challenge is to doing this well, or to prioritizing this kind of, you know approach. And there are some things that i thought, you know, i totally would have bet on those being the answers, and they came out that way. And there are other things that i was surprised by. So it’s it’s, a pretty interesting report will, of course, have ah, webinar and other opportunities to discuss the report, but excited to share it first. Here. Thank you very much. Cool. Um, what was the was the report proofread? Yes, it was ok. Well, by about six people. Two times. Okay, well, that’s, you have edit well, there’s a there’s. A spelling mistake on page twenty three. I feel obliged to point that out, even though so even though we have a flawed report here. Well, i guess you and i will still spend time talking about it. But check page twenty three year okay, what’s the spelling mistake. Oh, you want the exact let’s? See it’s? Ah, the word constraints is misspelled in the graphic. I’m sorry. We’ll continue anyway. Well, i like it, okay, i don’t think that i don’t think it impacts the overarching messages of the report, but i don’t know. I feel compelled to point that out. Let’s. See you. Staffing is staffing is very interesting. What the positions that people had, who filled out the survey, meaning they’re the ones who were involved in the digital work of the organization. Yeah, i mean, i think that first, you know, at inten, we always talk about how technology in the most general sense is used by every person in the organization, right? Every every team, every individual has certain tools that they need to do their job, and we want technology training and recognition, you know, to be all the way across an organization on something that i thought was interesting about this is we do see, you know, different departments and different teams responding that they’re managing in this work, but that seventy percent were what what normally i would consider to be a leadership level staff percent on executive director or a director manager, you know, of a team seventy percent of the folks who are responsible for this work are that leadership level, which i think reinforces that it’s not about the tactical decisions of what do we post on facebook, but really trying to bring that hyre strategic perspective and, you know, kind of umbrella plan geever says getting deep in the weeds of of twitter, facebook or email marketing, so i thought that was a really positive sign, okay? And it’s ah, cuts across lots of different fields are positions. I guess directors and managers and and and specialists is actually just kind of small. It’s like only eleven. Roughly eleven percent specializing? Yeah, and consultants is the smallest, just under four percent. Yes, yes. Interesting. All right, yeah. I think that’s definitely been a shift it’s something that i saw, you know, maybe ten, fifteen years ago, as the kind of traditional department was an outsourced consultant roll. Someone would come in and make sure the servers were running and the website was up and that kind of thing. And over time, of course, organizations recognized how much work there was in that, and it made those official staff rolls. And now we’re seeing that with more of the digital strategy worked as well, that that may be used to be handed off to an outside consultant. And now we’re realizing that we’re doing it every day, and it needs to be part of staff. I saw that a lot of organizations that i participated or under a million dollars in in operating budget, thirty seven percent. You are up to two million dollars. So yeah, i mean most. I mean, many organizations are under five hundred thousand? I mean, just in the us. At least this report went to canadian organizations and tio us organizations. But that kind of distribution of the sector is that of course, most are smaller, right? And i wantto make make sure people understand that this is not, you know, done by large organizations. In fact, the you know, the like, the five million to ten million dollars category is only is even under twelve percent. So yep. Okay, what else did you see that it’s interesting in this in the report? Well, one thing that is just it touch a little bit more on the staffing piece that there’s. Um, well, we’ll kind of touch on this later too, but there’s a note about someone being completely focused, someone that’s, a dedicated staff person managing the digital strategy for the organisation versus that maybe being a distributed role depending on what the campaign is are, you know what work needs to be done? And the correlation there is that the more total staff you have an organization, the hyre the probability that there is a dedicated person for digital strategy, which i think way could’ve all you know made that logical step so less than a quarter’s twenty four percent of organizations that have ten, staff, people or fewer have a dedicated person managing the digital strategy, but when you go to that next kind of braque and eleven eleven staff to fifty staff, a little bit more of a medium sized organization, that twenty four percent jumps up to fifty eight percent and, you know, going over fifty staff, it goes up even higher. Andi, i offer that up as a reminder that, you know, a lot of organizations don’t have a dedicated person managing digital strategy, which we could talk about challenges about later, but i think at least it and ten, i hear that a lot people saying, well, we don’t have someone that, you know, it’s their job to manage this, so we can’t be expected to do it. Well, i think a lot of organizations are in that boat where they don’t have a staff person managing the digital strategy, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have a digital strategy. It just means that it needs maybe to be a more collaborative process to manage. Okay. Excellent. Is this an annual report? Uh this is the first time we’ve done it, but we do hope to do it at the beginning of each year going forward so we can try and see if there’s trends especially around, you know, emerging channels that people may be focused on for the year. Okay, seems like a pretty serious undertaking do annually. Okay. Yeah, well, and ten is a serious organization e on and i think there’s e i mean it’s. Why we do many of our reports every year. Because even if it’s not the same exact respondents and of course wait tried leah’s clears, we can that this is a snapshot. It’s not a scientific reports, of course, based on who responds each year. But there is there is value in being able to ask the same questions publicly year over year and see how responses change. You asked a bunch of questions about what, what organization is going to be focusing on in twenty fifteen and lots of lots of visual answers? Yeah, i thought it was, um i thought there were some answers here that were surprising and some here that we’re not surprising at all. So we asked folks, what content? Types or channels, they may be increasing their focus on or keeping the same focus or decreasing focus on and the top three that it counts. You know, if you count increasing, or at least stay in the same with focus are, you know, in the ninety five percent or hyre range are all rich media. So their videos, their images and their infographics, which i think i mean again, i know that those are really compelling content types and, you know, people really love to be able to share that kind of content, but i was surprised that it was, you know, ninety five percent or hyre that people were going to maintain or increase their focus on those and tio emphasize something that matthew made clear and that you have made clear many, many times before you embark on something like this, you need to have your strategy in place. Why are you? Why are you in? Why do you want to do an infographic? What right? I mean, what what can we do with video that we’re not? We’re not currently doing and how does it how does it serve our constituents? Exactly? And what? What is that video going to do for you, i mean a video in and of itself isn’t reason to create one. So video images infographics, even though those air the three highest as faras maintainer increase our focus on the peace is right behind that include email marketing, blog’s guest articles on your ah, you know website or blogged etcetera. So i think those pieces serve as the kind of channel or or reinforcement for those three top piece is the videos and images and infographics so that you’re creating that rich super share a ble content, right. Everybody wants to share that info graphic on facebook or or whatever, and you’re going to be sharing embedding those in email marketing in your blog’s in guest articles that you’re, you know, posting on other people’s websites. So i thought that made sense that those followed right behind. I have to go away for a couple minutes. When we come back, amy and i are going to keep talking about the twenty fifteen digital integration and outlook report. Be with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guest directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Duitz we will update that drop because jan eggers hasn’t been with blackbaud for a long, long time, but when she was, she was obviously a non-profit radio fan and i interviewed her let’s, go abroad with live listener love seoul, south korea anya haserot beijing, china is with us ni hao and mishima japan konnichi wa bringing it back to the u s falls church, virginia, locust grove, virginia, new york, new york woodbridge, new jersey. Thank you, woodbridge, devon, pennsylvania, potomac, marilyn st louis, missouri couple in south san francisco, california more than one thank you let’s cruise s new mexico welcome! I’ve listened to you last cruises that was but that’s that’s, one of our listeners of the weak and i’m sorry, i can’t remember which one which one of our live listeners from las cruzes tweet me and i’ll shut you out! Use the hashtag non-profit radio, honolulu, hawaii, ellicott city, maryland, los angeles, california and we have a bunch of masked us listeners also, i don’t know if that’s intentional or unintentional. I watched the movie screening citizenfour last night about the edward snowden story so it could be unintentional masking that’s a very good film. By the way, citizenfour? Any sample ward? You’re still with us, right? Even though i’m chattering away? Of course i am. I’m i was actually thinking of citizen for when you announced that there are a number of folks masking and call listening into the show on dh then you set it. We’re having a brunch, a brain melt. Ah, exactly. And so have you seen citizen for i have. Yeah. You know, i have a very poignant story about that. The scanning the screening i went to last night was that here in new york city, the i f c and by much independent channel’s studio or something down on sixth have and it was with edward snow. We had edward snowden in bye bye video and also allow laura poitras, the director of the film, and glenn greenwald. The journalist obviously was working so closely with glen, and it was all hosted by david carr, the new york times media media journalists. And then he went to the new york times office last night after this live panel and he died. I saw it on. I saw i got i got an alert. Yeah, he died right after. He died in the new york times office. It’s incredible. Oh, my god. Yeah, yeah. David carr c a r r xero obituary in the times today, right after he hosted this, he went back to the office, and then he was found there last last night. Like the nine o’clock tonight. I know it was really it was really chilling. Oh, my. I was so sorry, andi. I saw him at his last live appearance hosting this panel around the citizen for on and how was that panel? So david was there in person, but other people were on skype for only only on ly. Edward snowden was remote. Glenn greenwald and laura poitras. She’s a director. The film. They were both live with him. It we roll in the theater at the i f c center. Yeah, it was very, very good. How is the discussion? Oh, excellent. You know, people are concerned about asking laura and glenn about their their own feelings about being back in the u s and their reluctance to come back. Uh, after all this broke, this all broke around. It was june twenty thirteen that’s with the three of them. Poitras. Greenwald. And snowden had a week in hong kong, which is when the story’s first came out. They first met him. Face-to-face. Right. Then, june twenty third, june thirteen. So they were talking about what was it like to come back to the us after that? What she has planned. There’s, another film planned about other whistle blowers. That’s, the films she was working on when this one broke, and she she put citizenfour ahead of it. Yeah, really. It’s it’s ah, it’s, really very good. And who? The thing last night, i just couldn’t get over when i woke up this morning and saw the obituary. Um, yeah, that’s, just incredible. Let’s, let’s talk about some of the other things where people are focusing in twenty fifteen also ranked high were case studies, twitter chats and marketing automation. What what does that one mean? Marketing automation? Oh, well, it can mean, you know, different things. Oh, of course, every organization brings its own understanding that definition to automation, but i’ll share some examples from antenna, so they’re rooted, at least in reality, that i can talk about. And for us, marketing automation means ah, focus on or a lot of trust in data that we can use to welcome new people to the community, to encourage communication to encourage, you know, joining or renewing all of those pieces. So when i say trusting and relying on data, i mean that we have set up our systems so that say, tony, you come to the website and you decide to sign up for one of our webinars are online education programs and it’s the first time you’ve ever come to intend so we see in the database here’s this new contact tony martignetti and we also see that the way you came in, the way you became a new contact is by registering for an event. So that kicks you in essentially to an automated marketing kind of system. So instead of getting eso se damn your host for the show, sam also come wait. Hold on comes in because he joined an online community group. Hold on, hold on. Tony martignetti is the host of the show. Sam sam is our producer, our line producer. Sorry, producer recording. Martignetti is the host. What? I don’t believe it buy-in i mean that he’s physically your host. You are teo that’s. What? You are you sure? Okay. So? So you and sam come down on the same day, entered the database the same day, but but tony’s record says you came for educational program and sam’s records says he came for a community group. So you each start getting messages that are you? No one is right away. Message one is about a week later. One is after that etcetera that are tailored on that entry point. So, tony, your follow-up message is going to say, you know, oh, my gosh, we know that you’re here to learn. And here are more ways that you can keep learning with an ten whereas sam’s isn’t goingto make that assumption because he didn’t sign up for an educational program instead, his is going to say, oh, wow, you’re here to meet people and network and find a community. Here are more ways you can do that on dh towards the end of that series. Of course, you can start broadening what you’re showcasing, you know? Hey, if if you want to do something more than learned tony here, all different things we have and sam here, if you want to do more than join a community group, here are other ways that you can get involved, but that way staff are not storming through the database every single day. Okay, who’s, a new education contact who’s, a new newsletter contact but the system is set up with those messages crafted dynamically to just go out on their own. All right, amy, unfortunately have to leave it there. The the full report is the twenty fifteen digital integration and outlook report our social media manager, susan chavez tweeted out where you can find the report and there’s obviously a lot more there and final message just because something is a strategic focus area for other non-profits doesn’t mean it’s right? For you, you’ve got to think about the strategy and how whether it really makes sense for you. Amy sabat what? I’m going to see you. It non-profit technology conference. I can’t wait. I know people should goto n ten dot or ge go to the non-profit technology conference ntcdinosaur b on the science fair floor, interviewing lots and lots of the speakers from that conference at that conference and i will see you there, amy next week. Gene takagi are legal contributor returns. Very smart guy. Why w c a monterey county our listeners of the week thank you so, so much. If you missed anything on today’s show finding at tony martignetti dotcom are creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer. Sam is the line producer of the show, not the host shows social media’s by susan chavez. Susan chavez dot com on our music is by scott stein. I hope you’ll be with me next week for big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. 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