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[00:02:02.01] spk_0:
And welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with retinal Malaysia if I saw that you missed this week’s show your corporate funding in the boardroom Playbook, Lori’s ask Rosca gives you step by step strategies and healthy doses of encouragement to improve your corporate funding process. So you increase support and sponsorships. She’s with us to talk about her book. I’m Tony’s take two. I’m wishing you well. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. It’s a genuine pleasure to welcome Laurie’s Oscar Oscar to the show. She’s author of the book, The boardroom Playbook, a not so ordinary guide to corporate funding for your purpose driven organization. She’s got over 22 years expertise in revenue generation management, corporate sponsorship, support, corporate cause marketing, fundraising, corporate social responsibility and more. She’s held key leadership and corporate sponsorship positions in organizations like PBS NPR local stations, Clear channel University of phoenix midwest campuses and citysearch dot com. Her company is the growth owl. She’s at Z ask Raska and the company is at the growth owl dot com. Welcome Wise owl.

[00:02:03.90] spk_1:
Well, thank you Tony. It is my pleasure to be here and thank you for that. Beautiful introduction. Oh,

[00:02:09.40] spk_0:
well based on what you sent me. It’s all, it’s all true And keep it, keep it factual, glad to have the wise owl the growth owl with US

[00:02:17.87] spk_1:
that’s right. Thank you.

[00:02:19.57] spk_0:
And you’re, you’re in the Cleveland Ohio area.

[00:02:22.19] spk_1:
I am, I’m in the Cleveland Ohio area but I work with clients across the country.

[00:02:28.18] spk_0:
I I know Cleveland for the rock and Roll Hall of fame.

[00:02:31.89] spk_1:
Yes. Probably one of the most popular attractions when people come to Cleveland, it’s definitely not miss when you come.

[00:02:38.28] spk_0:
I imagine it’s on my list. I haven’t been there yet. But have you been, do you go, you bring friends or? Yeah,

[00:02:43.69] spk_1:
absolutely. Yeah. Most friends who want to come to Cleveland first ask about the Rock hall. So it’s, it’s a definite visit site.

[00:02:50.40] spk_0:
Okay, you’ve heard this before. The Rock Hall, That’s the insiders call it the rock

[00:02:54.22] spk_1:
the rock hall, we call it the Rock hall. That’s

[00:02:56.13] spk_0:
right. Okay. All right. I wanna be, I wanna be a Cleveland insider. Alright,

[00:02:58.97] spk_1:
alright. You got it.

[00:03:01.64] spk_0:
So let’s talk about the boardroom playbook and corporate funding. I gather you feel that nonprofits are not strategic enough in their corporate funding work.

[00:03:14.92] spk_1:
You know, it’s been my experience that nonprofits do really, really well and individual giving, planned giving, um, other types of giving, but where sometimes

[00:03:28.02] spk_0:
something

[00:03:53.05] spk_1:
gets overlooked. I just noticed it tends to be in that corporate giving area and I, I personally see one of two things. Either there hasn’t been much attention to it or they’ve put somebody to oversee it that maybe is really in charge of something else like planned giving or membership or individual giving and they’ve added a corporate support function. And it’s kind of like, wow, this is something that you’ve just added to my responsibilities. That’s totally different than traditional types of fundraising. So I do see that there is a need to talk specifically about how corporate sponsorship and corporate funding works because it is very different than other types of fundraising.

[00:04:12.72] spk_0:
And you’ve been on both sides, you’ve you’ve been on the sponsorship side for like PBS and NPR stations.

[00:04:19.48] spk_1:
Yeah, I

[00:04:20.50] spk_0:
mean those are huge. Those are all big names. Those are marquee names, Yeah,

[00:04:23.82] spk_1:
yeah, it puts me in a very unique position, I’ve been on the client side, I’ve been on the funder side, I’ve also been on the side that, you know, is looking for the funding. So I’ve got a great perspective, I

[00:04:41.70] spk_0:
agree. So let’s, let’s let’s let’s pick your brain, you have, you have this um uh sort of a little paradigm me mi mo

[00:04:45.49] spk_1:
Yeah, mm. Oh

[00:04:47.04] spk_0:
yeah, explain, explain me mi mo of course we’re gonna have plenty of time to go into details, but yeah, it was the high level MIm mimo,

[00:05:27.08] spk_1:
So for years, people have asked me what’s your process, you know, what makes you different, what have you? So I like to say, I just work with me mi mo and to me an effective fundraiser, whether it be for corporate or other types of fundraising is aligning your mental, your message and your motion and that motion being the activity to get things done to get that funding. So putting all of those three together in alignment, making sure your head is in check, your messaging is in check and the activities are in check will be kind of the secret sauce to your cell success. So my book is broken out into me mi mo and you know, really taking a look at how can you really capitalize on the areas that you have strengths, but also work on those areas where maybe you don’t have as many strengths

[00:05:43.16] spk_0:
and you have a very, you know, a lot of lot of step by step, I mean very clear do these five things to do this to get this and to overcome your anxieties uh which we’ll get to that, we’ll get to your uh periwinkle zombies, you know, to overcome these things. Uh you know, do these five things. So you know, it’s very, it’s very strategic, it’s very, it’s a very, it’s a very easy reads, very good read,

[00:06:08.15] spk_1:
I appreciate that and it was purposely written that way because I know a lot of business books and other books quite frankly can be kind of overwhelming and I really wanted this to be practical that you walked away from it at least taking a few good nuggets that you can implement right after you put the book down.

[00:06:24.40] spk_0:
So let’s talk about the mental and of course you have to acquaint us with your perry winkle zombies.

[00:07:08.68] spk_1:
Ah yes, so perry winkle zombies, if you if you read in my book you’ll you’ll see the setup I have is I love horror movies, you know give me a good Freddy Jason would have you a good haunted house but what freaks me out are zombies just don’t like them, they just freak me out. So when I think about how your thoughts can overtake you, when you get anxious about something, it be anxious about going into a meeting to ask for a lot of money, it could be having anxiety about well gee how much money should I ask for and then things like imposter syndrome or basically anything that’s in your head that’s preventing you from doing what you need to do. I also like to say there are people in your life that can sometimes be perry winkle zombies that um you know maybe they’re they’re trying to do it out of out of a good nature from a good place but they can impede on your progress. So it’s very important early on in that mental stage that you recognize what those perry winkle zombies are that could prevent you from kind of being the best fundraiser you can be

[00:07:34.56] spk_0:
uh and there perry winkle because periwinkles, a pretty color kind of a soft violet but these things may they come in, they come in a nice shape sometimes

[00:07:47.77] spk_1:
but

[00:07:48.55] spk_0:
they are insidious like like zombies are

[00:08:26.61] spk_1:
exactly right, tony So sometimes those anxieties or sometimes when you question yourself, you think it actually might be helping you, but in actuality it’s hurting you, and that’s where the periwinkle, you know, comes into play, you know, at first it looks it looks good, but actually it is kind of impeding your process. So you wanna watch for those zombies in your life, what are their mental or actually, you know, in your sphere? And I talk about in my book, you know, I had a client that had a director of Development that um maybe unconsciously was being kind of a periwinkle zombie to the Executive Director and the executive director really wanted to do more with fundraising and the Director of Development said, you know, you kind of stay in your lane,

[00:08:37.63] spk_0:
you

[00:08:38.79] spk_1:
know, you gotta look out for those things,

[00:08:58.09] spk_0:
right? As if she, the fundraiser was portraying it as helpful, you know, there there are things that only you can do, so you should devote your time to those things, leave these more mundane things that any Schmo like me can handle, you know, not that she was self deprecating

[00:09:00.03] spk_1:
like that, right? It

[00:09:01.11] spk_0:
was, it was altruistic in appearance that she was, she was a zombie in sheep’s clothing.

[00:09:07.22] spk_1:
That’s right, rationally, it makes sense in the conversation. Well maybe she’s right, but at the end of the day it’s impeding your growth anytime you want to get educated or learn to do something more with in your career, that is not a bad thing, so zombies attacking you in that way periwinkle zombie, you definitely have to tear it down.

[00:09:26.50] spk_0:
Yes as as frightful as it may

[00:09:29.33] spk_1:
be.

[00:09:29.88] spk_0:
Uh Well thankfully that executive director had you working with her, so if you love horror movies you will appreciate that. I’ve been, I’ve been on this, not on the set, but I’ve been to the place where friday the 13th, the original with kevin with kevin Bacon, with the young kevin

[00:09:48.37] spk_1:
Bacon, that

[00:10:17.39] spk_0:
was filmed that was filmed at a Boy Scout camp Northern New Jersey and I used to go to that campus, it’s called Camp no be bosco, no be bosco stood for North Bergen Boy Scouts and there were the lodges lodges were there the log cabins were places where you could stay and then there was an administration building and uh I don’t know, I don’t know if the dining, I think the dining hall is where the costumes were. So one time I went and they were they were they were in the midst of filming, so we saw a bunch of the masks and costumes,

[00:10:27.83] spk_1:
I’ve

[00:10:28.13] spk_0:
been at the little Boy Scout camp is now you know that friday the 13th the original was filmed at a Boy Scout camp and the lake of course is right there, is it Crystal Lake is it, is

[00:10:37.37] spk_1:
it

[00:10:38.09] spk_0:
camp Crystal lake, right well the real name is nobody bosco. I’ve swam in that lake. I’ve rowed boats in that lake, so

[00:10:47.16] spk_1:
And no, Jason coming out from the water trying to attack you,

[00:10:50.13] spk_0:
Jason. Okay. So you’re the expert I want to show Jason or Freddy? Okay, Freddy. What’s the who’s the Freddy? What show is his

[00:10:56.47] spk_1:
Freddy is a nightmare on Elm Street.

[00:10:58.72] spk_0:
Elm Street. Okay.

[00:11:00.46] spk_1:
Yes,

[00:11:01.98] spk_0:
shout out one other. Okay, so we got Jason Freddy. What’s one more that

[00:11:05.93] spk_1:
Michael Myers from Halloween?

[00:11:08.92] spk_0:
Okay, Thank you. You’re proving that.

[00:11:10.82] spk_1:
Really? My favorite is Michael Myers. Yes.

[00:11:14.34] spk_0:
Okay. Obviously, proving your bona fides in your harbor films. That’s right. You know who these guys

[00:11:22.41] spk_1:
are? Is

[00:11:23.50] spk_0:
there ever a horror film with a woman? Is there ever a woman bad bad actor in? Is there any horror film like that?

[00:11:31.88] spk_1:
That’s a great question. And I’m sure there is. You’re just putting me on the spot

[00:11:36.82] spk_0:
right there and I can’t,

[00:11:37.92] spk_1:
I can’t think about it. I guess you could you know, if you think some of the movies that came from the conjuring, there’s the nun, there’s the female dolls that are kind of creepy Annabelle. Um those coming to my mind. Yeah,

[00:11:56.03] spk_0:
If you think of another main character, you know. No, no, no, that’s just off the top of my head. I just, I was saying they’re all guys. Well, okay, not surprisingly. Well, we’ll keep the gender stereotypes out of this.

[00:12:11.84] spk_1:
So.

[00:12:13.08] spk_0:
All right. So, we got to stay away from the periwinkle zombies there sometimes people and their sometimes just in our own head.

[00:12:19.69] spk_1:
That’s exactly right, yes,

[00:12:31.00] spk_0:
Alright, get away, you know, you don’t that doubt and that fear overcome that. Okay, what else? What else? Mental wise you you tell a good story about a gentleman you met on an airplane

[00:12:34.30] spk_1:
paul.

[00:12:35.28] spk_0:
Yeah. Story of paul, you know, that’s

[00:12:38.33] spk_1:
Since the book has come out, I probably get more questions about Paul and unfortunately I don’t know what happened to Paul because this this literally happened early in my career, like almost 22

[00:12:48.11] spk_0:
years, you know enough, you know, enough to make it a very good story.

[00:13:49.24] spk_1:
Yeah, so um you know, basically I was on a flight from Chicago to phoenix and I struck up a conversation with who is paul? He was in his, in his fifties, he just left his job in banking to just put all of his enthusiasm in the software start up and at the time I really didn’t understand what the software is about. I just got the, just this guy’s really excited and he was excited because he had the opportunity to basically go to phoenix and pitch a room of investors to invest in his business, kind of like shark tank before shark tank was the thing and I thought great, well you know paul um found out we were gonna be in the same return flight later in the week, so you know, I can’t wait to hear about your your big pitch and how it went. So it’s a few days later I’m walking in the airport on the concourse lo and behold there’s paul at the bar and looking just really, really sad. So I approached him, I asked paul how it went and he said it didn’t and I said what? He said, I didn’t go to the meeting

[00:13:53.14] spk_0:
and

[00:13:53.94] spk_1:
I said you didn’t go to the meeting? What happened? He said, I just was so scared and paralyzed that they would not like my idea, it just wasn’t worth it to go. And I stayed in my hotel room and that stayed with me

[00:14:08.28] spk_0:
for

[00:14:46.53] spk_1:
years and I always use that even with my clients and with myself, if I feel any type of doubt go to the meeting, Lori, you’ve you’ve got to go to the meeting, you you can’t do what paul did. And paul even said to me before you know, we left that day, Laurie always go to the meeting, don’t do what I did. And again, here’s me, I’m in my twenties, this is early in my career and I’m looking at this guy that seemed so successful and so confident when we were on the flight together, it was a totally different person and this is somebody that created something in his head, a situation that wasn’t even real. You know, he was anticipating he was going to get all of this pushback and they weren’t going to like them. And the sad part was when I saw him, he was actually on a cell phone. The old flip phones back then. I’m sure you remember those tony and he said, I

[00:15:02.67] spk_0:
remember, I remember princess remember princess phones. Yes,

[00:15:07.59] spk_1:
me too.

[00:15:09.32] spk_0:
I

[00:15:09.96] spk_1:
do. And he said I was actually on the phone talking to my old boss, getting my job

[00:15:16.16] spk_0:
back. It

[00:15:16.36] spk_1:
was heartbreaking. So, you know, I I also end the book reminding people about paul and you know, again, he sticks with me and it’s a it’s a great reminder that you can really allow yourself to create situations in your mind that really hijack the progress or hijack good things from coming in, not only for your funding, but in your life quite frankly. So yeah, that’s my story of paul.

[00:15:44.98] spk_0:
I hope you didn’t sit next to him on the way back, did you? Because that would be an awful long.

[00:15:49.57] spk_1:
We did not.

[00:15:51.25] spk_0:
Okay, okay. That would be that would be a tough flight

[00:15:56.89] spk_1:
home.

[00:17:14.58] spk_0:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications, the relationships, the relationships with media, we’re talking today with Laurie about relationships with corporate funders. You need to have relationships with the folks in the media who you want to be responsive when there’s something in the news that you need to comment on, you just have to be heard. Your voice needs to be part of the conversation around something, whatever the news hook is or just you want to get an op ed in. It may not be uh something that is based on a news hook, but something you feel strongly about, you need to be heard. This is all part of being a thought leader in your field. Turn to can set you up with relationships that can get you heard when you need to be and just when uh when you want to be, nothing wrong with wanting to be heard, turn to communications, your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Now, back to your corporate funding. You you talk in a few places about managing expectations.

[00:17:19.68] spk_1:
Oh yeah,

[00:17:20.67] spk_0:
your own, your organization. Let’s let’s let’s get that out in the while. We’re talking about the first me of the memo.

[00:17:28.16] spk_1:
Yeah. So I think managing expectations is really important. So let’s start with managing expectations kind of in your own building. And it

[00:17:44.62] spk_0:
could have, we could have, we could have Mimi ma’am. Oh, that’s Oh yeah. If you want to do mental message, manage expectations and but then that’s two words. It ruins your cadence. But

[00:17:47.49] spk_1:
right, you got it,

[00:17:48.68] spk_0:
trying to mess up. You don’t want to mess up your mantra.

[00:17:51.18] spk_1:
That’s alright.

[00:17:52.86] spk_0:
I just thought of. All right.

[00:20:27.44] spk_1:
So, you know, there’s nothing worse than being in your in a meeting with your Ceo, in your c suite and they’re asking you about updates. It’s on fundraising. On corporate support and in previous meetings, maybe you were very, very excited about something about about a potential funder coming on board, but they’ve gone kind of quiet, so you’ve got nothing else to report on that meeting. There’s just nothing worse than that. You know, you do the round robin of reporting and it comes to you, you’re like, do I have to talk about this again. So I think it’s very important right away that whenever you’re discussing expectations about a potential funder, especially a corporate funder, you keep your expectations based on facts and not feelings. And when I talk about in the book, I even give some sample, a re responses. So if you do have your Ceo or CFO asking about, well how do you how do you think that’s going to go? I mean, do you, I think we’re going to get that money instead of saying something that’s feelings based? Like, you know, I went in there, I had a great pitch, I think we really connected really well. They’d be stupid not to want to fund us. You know, that’s very feelings based language instead you want to focus on factual language. Now we have the pitch two weeks ago they said that they’re gonna need X amount of time. We do fit in their corporate social possibility and corporate philanthropic goals in terms of their tenants. Forgiving so based on that, you know, the probabilities might be better than not. So there’s a whole different feeling or feelings The bad word, there’s a, there’s a whole different vibe that you’re gonna get when you’re spending time talking about fact versus feelings and that especially comes up. You know, if you don’t get the funding or if if the funding tends to be elongated in terms of the decision and the ceo is getting a little, you know, impatient. Well, what’s going on, you said this was going so well what happened here? So instead of taking it personally and saying, I totally get what you’re saying, I’m just as, you know, flabbergasted as you have you are that they haven’t come back to us. I put a lot of work in that proposal, that’s the language you want to stay away from. You have to again focus going back to the points of, we did what they asked us to do and there’s a process and we have to go through that process. So that is a great way to set expectations within the building. The other area of setting expectation is within something I call corporate depth perception. I talk about this in my book, you have to realize that corporations are dealing with thousands of different things and no matter how important your funding is to you, it’s not as important to the corporation

[00:20:47.95] spk_0:
and

[00:20:48.32] spk_1:
you have to realize that, again, not taking it personally and there are going to be times where, you know, sometimes it’s just not a

[00:20:56.58] spk_0:
fit,

[00:21:33.20] spk_1:
there’s it’s just not a fit, no matter how hard you try to get somebody’s attention, it’s just not a fit, or maybe the timing is off. But having the empathy for lack of a better term to understand what corporate decision makers are going through, it’s gonna give you um it’s gonna give you a kind of a long way with somebody in the positive, you know, if you’re able to say to someone, I realize you’re literally looking at thousands maybe of proposals and, you know, I’m just one of those, I just want to thank you for even the review, we appreciate that. That’s music to a corporate decision makers ears because they usually don’t even hear anything like that. And just by reaching out and having that empathy that corporate duck perceptions, you may have just moved your proposal from the bottom all the way up, because people will always remember how you make them feel and that’s that’s so important.

[00:22:11.97] spk_0:
You made that you make that suggestion uh, you know, near near the end as you’re saying, rather than saying, thanks very much for your time. You know, be empathetic, uh, extend yourself a bit and maybe, and and it’s and it’s your it’s your last paragraph with them before you walk out the door. So why not leave them with something much bigger than, you know, everybody else is the ubiquitous. Thanks for your time.

[00:22:18.22] spk_1:
Exactly, yeah. Anyway, you can make yourself stand out to help help them connect with you, that you understand what they’re going through in this process that’s huge.

[00:22:31.17] spk_0:
Anything else on the on the first me? Yeah,

[00:22:34.71] spk_1:
so

[00:22:35.88] spk_0:
I’m

[00:23:08.27] spk_1:
a really big believer in the self fulfilling prophecy and we kind of hit that with paul, but just in general, I really try to coach my clients and people that are reading this book, you know, watch the language you’re using about yourself, you know, we’re probably not gonna get that. Well, you’ve already said it to yourself in your mind that you’re not going to get that. Also watch when you’re writing your proposals, if you’re if you’re not in a good frame of mind when you’re writing a proposal for money stop, I really think it it comes through in the language, so I

[00:23:31.46] spk_0:
think that’s true. I think that’s true when you’re writing, when you’re writing emails to whether it’s to a corporate funder or anybody else, if you’re in a pissy mood, you know, you’re just you’re gonna be more terse, you’re you’re you’re you’re the right language is not gonna flow great. You know, it’s it’s it’s Yeah, I think it it comes through even in one dimension on the screen. I agree, totally

[00:23:38.73] spk_1:
does. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, watch that self fulfilling prophecy, Watch the language you’re using about yourself and always remember that you are deserving of the funding and your organization is deserving of it and just remember to keep going back to that place if you’re feeling challenged when you’re not in a great frame of mind.

[00:24:31.95] spk_0:
That also applies terrifically too. When you’re preparing for your presentation, preparing to go in, you wanna, you wanna visualize yourself. I mean that when I, sometimes when I’m preparing for a training or, or Evan R or something, I’ll picture myself running through the finish line first, you know, like chest out, breaking the tape, breaking that, that tape at the finish line and you know, people are cheering and it’s uh, so we’re simpatico, I agree with you about visualizations, the value of a positive visualization

[00:24:54.12] spk_1:
and I give tips in my book about things to visualize the day of your presentation as well as before, if you’re able to actually get in the space where you’re going to present before the meeting, give yourself like a good half hour, it’s good to get into the space, get you in the right frame of mind and I’m a big fan of rehearsal, you know, I’m an, I’m an old theater kid, you know, I did a lot of theater in high school and in college and rehearsal is essential and you know, even when I was in public media and I was on the air, you know, pitching for dollars as they would say, trying to get new members, I would rehearse in my car on the way to doing a membership pitch and it works, so don’t be afraid to rehearse. I did.

[00:25:19.72] spk_0:
Yes,

[00:25:21.48] spk_1:
that’s

[00:25:33.06] spk_0:
a real, that’s a real art, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta keep people, you gotta keep keep motion, keep forward motion. Sometimes the calls are not coming in. Yeah, I don’t know if you’re doing, did you ever do the live? Like we can hear the, we can hear the ringing in the background

[00:25:38.91] spk_1:
live pledged? Absolutely, yeah, tough.

[00:25:42.33] spk_0:
When the calls are not coming,

[00:26:15.61] spk_1:
I’ll tell you, I’ve got to give credit is due. I worked for a gentleman who just retired out of public media a few years ago, his name was Kent geist, uh, he was a senior vice president of public media here in, in the Cleveland area. He was a master of the membership pitch and I learned so much from him, He was definitely a mentor for me in public media and I mean, it was an artwork, but the best part about it was he really cared, he really cared that the right audiences are getting access to this community resource in public media and it just really translated. So, uh, that’s, that’s, that’s the person who really got me through and really got me kinda through osmosis picking up on, you know, the right things to say at the right times

[00:26:52.37] spk_0:
when you can speak from the heart, you know, and, and channel that, but you know, then you gotta keep it going for 15, 20 minutes at a time. I mean that I’m not, I’m not minimizing it, but, you know, but when you can speak because you have a genuine emotional connection to the work, a passion for the work. When you can speak from your heart, that that that goes a long way,

[00:27:08.47] spk_1:
it’s so important because, and you’ll find a lot of people that work in public media are fans of public media, you know, um it’s that’s a big deal. We we know the content, we listen, we watch every day, so that definitely helps. And again, going back to what I say earlier, people remember how you make them feel. So we always go back to that um when we are in a pledge period and we know how to make people feel because we’re also listeners and viewers ourselves and we know the importance of the content.

[00:27:26.86] spk_0:
What about what about the 2nd? Me and Mimi Mo

[00:27:31.07] spk_1:
Yeah, so the

[00:27:31.74] spk_0:
second is

[00:27:56.89] spk_1:
messaging and um got a lot of good stuff in there about messaging, but probably the one that I’m spending a lot of time on and that has a lot of um a lot of questions I’m getting about is the power of brevity. I think if there’s one area that some fundraisers, whether it be written in proposals, presentations or just in one on one conversations, a bit too long winded. You’re given away way too much information up front when you’re just starting to want to court a corporate funder, as I also talk about in the book, you know, there’s, there’s kind of like a dating period to get to know a potential corporate funder right at first all you want in that first communication is enough of a connection that you want to get a meeting or another conversation. That’s it.

[00:28:24.62] spk_0:
You’re not

[00:29:59.37] spk_1:
trying to get the six figure or seven figure ask you’re not trying to, you know, take somebody to lunch right away. We just want to show that there’s a connection between what we have to offer as a non profit and the types of things that corporation likes to support and what’s the next thing we need to do? The next thing we need to do can be a phone call Expedia zoom, which is very popular now since the pandemic or it could be an in person meeting. And I also really highly recommend and I really challenge my clients and my readers. Try to keep your communications especially written email, communications to 100 and 50 words or less. That’s probably the hardest thing for most of my clients to do because if I go back and look at most of their emails that they’ve sent to try to engage corporate decision makers that went unanswered. They’re just way too long, Way too long. That’s exactly right and remember think about our world right now. A 15 2nd spots. No more than 30. I mean I see a 32nd ad, I’m like uh, you know, ping notifications. Five second pre rolls. We live in a world that demands and is used to brevity and communication, but at the same time we also want to get the information we need. So I try to coach my clients look in in being too long winded and giving up to information. You’re basically going against the tide of how we like to get information in our world right now. So it’s sometimes takes work in order to learn brevity. And and I do have some real practical ways to kind of learn brevity and to practice it every day if it’s something you struggle with in my book. But it is essential to be brief and when you are making that first connection, it’s just kind of three things who am I

[00:30:21.05] spk_0:
how do

[00:30:21.49] spk_1:
we connect? What is it you want us to connect about why we connect and what do you want next? And you should be able to do that within 100 and 50 words and the same thing with voicemail. You know, fewer and fewer people are using the phone. Um but those that still do be careful of those long winded voicemails. You really need to come up with something very succinct, rehearse it before you make the voicemail and be confident in your voice

[00:30:47.54] spk_0:
interesting. Rehearse your rehearse. Well rehearsed what you might say, but then rehearse to what you’re gonna say. If you get, if you get the voicemail,

[00:30:55.34] spk_1:
you

[00:31:03.98] spk_0:
also have a lot about research. You want us to research the company. You want us to research your contact at the company share some of your some of your research tips.

[00:31:25.28] spk_1:
Yeah. So um it is imperative that you research not only the company but the decision maker before you start contacting them. Even with that brief message we had talked about because there is so much competition right now. That wants the same money that you do. I was actually on an interview that I remember last year and I was talking about how the nonprofit world is, you know, competing for dollars and and the interviewer said to me, nonprofits compete I guess.

[00:31:38.24] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah, I read that that was I was uh Yeah, it seems like an uninformed comment. Yes,

[00:31:59.04] spk_1:
I felt that way as well. But yes, they do compete whether they know it or not because a lot of times you don’t know the other funders you’re competing against for dollars, but I will say where, where you can really help yourself is in prep. So besides just obviously going to the website, you need to go even further. Look at the annual reports. Look at the reports around E S. G. As well as D. E. I. Diversity equity and inclusion. What specific things are they funding are they

[00:32:16.02] spk_0:
remind us what the DSG is. Everybody might not know the S. G.

[00:32:20.35] spk_1:
Yeah. So the E S. G. And I just blanked for a moment.

[00:32:24.91] spk_0:
Environmental, I got you covered.

[00:32:27.52] spk_1:
If

[00:32:28.35] spk_0:
I give you the first one, I bet you’ll get the second to

[00:32:31.05] spk_1:
sustainability and governance. Social

[00:32:34.02] spk_0:
usa social.

[00:33:34.84] spk_1:
Yes, so social. Environmental, sustainability, social and government. So thank you. Yeah, just caught me in the moment there. But what’s great is back in 2020 when we were all really focused on the pandemic, Fortune 500s were hiring chiefs of D. I. chiefs of sustainability um chiefs of their supply chain to make sure it was sustainable. Like, like crazy. And with that came different types of budgets, like they were all also given money to go out and find other folks to work with. Um And most people would attribute this to more the corporate philanthropic side, but we’re seeing these new budgets that opened up. So all of that being said, that is the case for you to take some extra time and to actually work on looking at the E. S. G. Reports and in many times the E. S. G. Reports and the D. E. I. Reports have contact information in there and you know, contact information is half the battle sometimes.

[00:33:38.61] spk_0:
Right?

[00:33:52.66] spk_1:
So I really implore you to go deep and look at those reports and when you’re talking to you then you can then reference some of that work, which a lot of fundraisers, sometimes they miss that step and then check their linkedin. I’m a big fan of linkedin

[00:33:56.34] spk_0:
and what that what that does if you’re if you’re talking about their own reports back to them proving that you did the research,

[00:35:20.97] spk_1:
that’s exactly right. And I love being able to use a prospects own words. I like to call it because their own words show that you’ve listened and they resonate with that. So being able to reference that whether it’s in written or verbal communique is definitely huge. So, um, and again, looking at your contacts linkedin page, I find a lot more contacts now are really putting a lot more about themselves on linkedin and in terms of their philanthropic interests. So let’s say you, you’re looking at someone that maybe on paper, the company might not vibe with you right away. But personally they really, you know, they’re involved in philanthropy per personally on another board, maybe that connects with your doing with what you’re doing. So you just never know. So really taking a holistic approach to research. Looking at the S. G. The D. E. I. Looking at linkedin looking at even facebook, I tell the story of a of a really hard to get vice president that I had one of my account executives at the time, get a meeting with, who was known for ghosting and who was also known to seem really, really excited to want to work with you and provide funding and then just kind of went away. So the story I tell is that I actually did a little research and found that we had a mutual interest in animal rescue, like down to the breed. And when I was in the meeting with my account director, we ended the meeting and I said, oh by the way, are you going to be at the doggy waddle? And she looked like what I didn’t even know about the doggy model. And you know, I mentioned that I saw we were in the same facebook

[00:35:45.80] spk_0:
group

[00:35:46.79] spk_1:
and so I made sure to see her at the doggy waddle and her hounds and my hounds and lo and behold, we got the letter of intent. So you just, you just never

[00:35:57.08] spk_0:
know research

[00:35:58.42] spk_1:
is imperative.

[00:37:25.93] spk_0:
It’s time for Tony’s take two. I’m wishing you well in the heat of the fourth quarter. Uh from giving Tuesday coming up in a few weeks to your weekly production goals, um comparing last year to this year, week by week, hopefully not day by day. Uh well, all right, you don’t need me to recite for you the litany of pressures in the fourth quarter. What I do want to say is I’m thinking about you take a deep breath, take some time for yourself. Maybe you can take a lot but take some and use it wisely. You know what’s best for you in the heat of the fourth quarter. You gotta take care of yourself before you can take care of your business. So I’m thinking about you, I’m wishing you well, I hope you succeed. And to do that. I’m urging you to take whatever time you can take some time to care for yourself too. That is tony stick to, we’ve got boo koo but loads more time for your corporate funding with Lori Zoe’s crossed. You name a resource that I, I’m not familiar with. I’ve never heard of Rocket reach.

[00:37:30.56] spk_1:
O Rocket reach.

[00:37:32.03] spk_0:
Maybe it’s maybe it’s ubiquitous and I’m, I don’t know, I’m, I’m zombie doubt or something. But yeah, tell us about rocket reach.

[00:38:13.66] spk_1:
Rocket reaches a great way for you to find email addresses. Now, I know it has a lot of different other functions, but um, I love Rocket reach, I would say at least eight times out of 10 of the decision makers that I am researching, I will find a qualified email address in Rocket Reach. The other thing that’s great about Rocket reach if they have an email address associated with the, the professional, but they’re not confident about it, they will even list that they have a color coding system of green, yellow and red in terms of confidence of the email. A now there are free versions of Rocket Reach, I will tell you that I have a monthly subscription and I find it extremely helpful. Um, if you are actively engaging corporate decision makers, especially those that are very high up VP and high, higher up levels for National Fortune 500 Fortune 1005 hundred’s it’s a, it’s a phenomenal tool. I like it a lot

[00:38:43.29] spk_0:
rocket reach dot com. Um, okay. You also recommend setting google alerts,

[00:38:48.68] spk_1:
Yeah,

[00:38:49.33] spk_0:
for companies, for people for, for sectors that you can make your connection with the folks you’re gonna be talking to flush that out for us.

[00:40:02.85] spk_1:
That’s exactly right. So let’s say you have a big meeting coming up with X Y Z corporation or you’re looking to really want to focus on someone in X Y Z corporation to start, you know, engaging for corporate support. I tell people that they could easily go to google and, and the easiest way to do this is literally go to google and type in setting up google alerts. It will basically walk you through how you can choose companies, topics, what have you and news about your news about your topics will automatically be emailed to you Now. I also like to remind people once you’re done, be sure you turn off your google alerts because you’re gonna get a lot of, you know, you’ll get a lot of them. But again, this is really something that you can use that’s for free, totally for free. You can do on google and you’d be surprised, you know, you, we all know, google search engine is pretty amazing. So you’re not only going to get news that’s news that you would see nationally, but you’re gonna get some of these little pieces that might be very hyperlocal or, or hyper industrial, that a decision maker would be pretty impressed that you would know about if you were referencing it in a meeting or in an email. So yeah, google alerts are great and easy to set up. Like I said, just go to google and type in setting up a google or and you’ll find it right away and how to do it.

[00:40:39.74] spk_0:
You also recommend using those while you’re in. If you’re in a waiting period, maybe you’ve sent the proposal, you sent your initial email no more than no more than 100 and 50 words and you’re maybe waiting or you got a reply that said, you know, we’ll get back to you or something. You know, you can you can use, oh, here’s here’s some interesting industry news that, you know, you might you might not have seen this article or something about, you know, your company was highlighted here. I thought this might interest you if you didn’t see it right? You can you can build a relationship with the person,

[00:40:58.47] spk_1:
I’ve

[00:40:59.33] spk_0:
heard that I’ve heard that companies, people actually, it’s actually people that work in companies, I’ve heard

[00:41:04.39] spk_1:
that

[00:41:05.22] spk_0:
programmers to that effect,

[00:41:34.05] spk_1:
they’re still around. So we’re always looking for additional touchpoints reasons to go back to people during the process. Right? So one of the best things that you can do is set up those google alerts. So you can send them news, maybe not only about something really interesting that’s happened within their company and you want to acknowledge it, but maybe something interesting that’s happened in their industry that you wanted to share, because maybe they haven’t seen it because they’re so busy, you know, and that is something that has worked really well for me as well as of my clients, because we are working with very, very busy people that get tons and tons of email. So to be able to share something regarding their industry that they might not have known about. Again, that that gives you a lot of points and shows that you have an interest with them of them beyond just, you know, getting the funding, that there’s a relationship you want to build,

[00:42:02.61] spk_0:
there’s a, there’s a certain book that you love that was recommended to you when you were in college.

[00:42:09.49] spk_1:
You

[00:42:13.53] spk_0:
why don’t you share the value of that, that book influence.

[00:42:36.44] spk_1:
So if you have been in fundraising or studied persuasion or communications, it’s, it’s very, very, um, plausible that, you know, the name, robert Sheldon E. And the book was actually initially called The Weapons of influence, but they kind of changed the title and now we have these six influence, you know, pillars that child any talks about now, it’s seven because he added one, um, as, as we, we got later into the years here, but I’m just fascinated by these persuasive techniques and, you know, I don’t want to go into each technique,

[00:42:56.15] spk_0:
right?

[00:44:43.16] spk_1:
Yeah. But if you want to, you know, search robert, Sheldon E and and the power of influence and just type in influence and you’ll see that he actually talks about, there are things that you can do in your communication, whether it be written or spoken, that can influence someone to the behaviors that you’re you’re hoping to achieve, but in a positive way. So, you know, some examples of one of my favorites that I use a lot would be something called social proof. So when I worked in public media, we saw social proof a lot. So if, for instance, if we had some local private schools that got on the air, or it’s on some of the stations to support the programming, we started to get phone calls from other private schools who wa wanted to be on the air because, you know, they want to keep up with the joneses, but also they think, well, wow, if these schools are supporting public media, maybe we should be doing that as well. So, you know, social proof is definitely a big one and um, reciprocation. So any time that, you know, you put yourself out there and you do something for somebody, you know, there’s, there’s a good possibility that the person you did something for will reciprocate, and, you know, there’s there’s a lot of different examples of that, but even in what we just discussed with the google alerts, you know, taking the time to send somebody an article about something going on in their industry. They may reciprocate something back, whether, you know, something about an article in your industry or reciprocate back with, oh, this is great, You know, let’s let’s let’s let’s meet again to talk about this proposal, let’s talk about the proposal again. So those are just, you know, too, that are top of mind with me right now, but they really are fascinating because if I think about what is kind of the backbone of why I’ve been successful and and some of the people that do what I do that are successful, they go back to the work of Child Dini and that there is some psychology to this besides just working hard, you know, um it is all in the positioning

[00:45:10.14] spk_0:
and I just want folks to know that child any is C I A L D I N I of course. And his lawyer said that the book is influenced the psychology of persuasion.

[00:45:24.56] spk_1:
Yes, Yes.

[00:45:27.14] spk_0:
I think we’re on the mo of me, mi mo

[00:45:30.87] spk_1:
the motion

[00:45:38.97] spk_0:
the motion. You talked a lot about rehearsing and um also in in motion you had sort of courting folks with with resources and ideas and but you know, I think I feel like you’ve talked about that, you know, according touchpoints touchpoints and in that respect, it’s very parallel to individual fundraising.

[00:45:54.42] spk_1:
Yeah,

[00:46:07.67] spk_0:
we see something that’s going to be of interest to an individual donor who we’ve built a relationship with because we know that they are avid sailors. Perhaps, Laurie happens to be a very avid sailor, uh, and sailing instructor too. Is that, did I get that sailing instructor to

[00:46:11.69] spk_1:
know you might have been thinking of the rock climbing instructor that I worked

[00:46:15.72] spk_0:
with? Okay, not

[00:46:16.97] spk_1:
a sailor. You’re

[00:46:18.50] spk_0:
not a sailor? No. Okay. I

[00:46:21.09] spk_1:
do live by a lake though.

[00:46:39.59] spk_0:
Yeah, thank you. That’s very gracious of you to say thank you. It’s rock climbing. Rock climbing, maybe. Okay. I don’t know where, I don’t know how I perverted rock climbing into sailing, but so the takeaway there is, make sure that, you know, the person’s interests accurately don’t don’t misunderstand what they’re interested in. And send them an article about sailing when it’s actually it’s actually they worked with a rock climber and not even that there rock climbers themselves. So

[00:46:51.37] spk_1:
make sure you

[00:46:52.14] spk_0:
make sure you know what the hell you’re doing when you’re keeping in touch with people, You know what the hell you’re doing. Yeah. But, you know, regrettably, you’re suffering a lackluster host.

[00:47:06.18] spk_1:
It’s all good.

[00:47:38.04] spk_0:
Somehow perverted rock climbing into sailing. I don’t know, okay, sports, you seem to be very sports oriented work for sports. Yeah. That we don’t have we don’t have that in common. So maybe that’s why I got messed up because I got nervous when I saw the XS and OS on your book cover. And I thought she’s gonna make sports analogies and the XS and OS of course are for baseball’s I’m gonna get all confused, and I don’t know whether it’s hockey or it’s football or it’s it’s tennis or, you know, it’s a I got nervous, I think that’s what made me nervous was the sports, I was afraid. But you didn’t bring up sports? I did. So,

[00:47:43.73] spk_1:
No. So, you know, really, the introduction of my book talks about um when I was in college and I

[00:47:50.00] spk_0:
was professional

[00:47:51.14] spk_1:
sports organization,

[00:47:52.39] spk_0:
Yes,

[00:48:39.25] spk_1:
and um it kind of sets up how I come up with the Boardroom Playbook, which is the title of my book, and I do have a few sports references, but it’s nothing if you’re not a sports fan, you’ll be able to understand them. So, and and also, I just also like to talk about athletes in general. They do a lot of the things that I’m actually talking about in terms of mental preparation. You know, they do visualization, um they practice, they rehearse, um and they don’t just rehearse their craft of being an athlete, but they’re working with the pr people, they’re working with the operations people, it’s it’s an overall, you know, it’s a lot of work and I try to tell people in the boardroom Playbook that corporate support is a lot of work, there’s no hacks to it. And I and I know there’s a lot of pa popularity and saying, oh, watch my webinar for the four hacks to do this, and what I’m saying is if you’re doing this right, there is there are no hacks if you’re doing it right and developing the relationship, it takes time. But you’re developing relationships that are long term, and you’re developing a craft that will stay with you for years, no matter what happens with technology,

[00:49:02.48] spk_0:
brilliant, thank you for helping me recover from my sports. Yeah, no, the book is not S

[00:49:10.43] spk_1:
G I can’t believe I just

[00:49:18.14] spk_0:
uh Alright, that’s true. I did. Um No, I don’t. Long time listeners will know that. I don’t know, I don’t know much about sports. My favorite aspect of golf is that it’s a nice quiet sport. I appreciate that, I appreciate the quietness of golf. Uh

[00:49:33.63] spk_1:
So unless

[00:49:44.04] spk_0:
somebody then they’ll be screaming and they’ll be throwing. Of throwing, of devices, the paddles will get thrown. So, um yeah, the book is not based on sports. I don’t want to give folks the wrong impression. I understood the book perfectly,

[00:49:50.27] spk_1:
so leave

[00:50:08.33] spk_0:
it, leave it at that. So, so I guess we covered the memo, the motion motion. You talk about, you know, courting folks, knowing what the hell you’re doing. Uh rehearsing is part of your motion and how important that is. Um but then you have last minute tips, like 48 hour tips. And then and then right before and dressing and comfort items, you know, talk about, talk about some of your last minute tips right before the moment

[00:50:21.98] spk_1:
I do. So this kind of goes back

[00:50:24.35] spk_0:
to

[00:50:25.52] spk_1:
the athletes, you know, athletes have routines.

[00:50:29.01] spk_0:
You know, there

[00:51:26.63] spk_1:
are certain things, some of them will eat something before a game, some of them won’t, you know, everybody has a specific routine. So I provide tips of myself and other people I’ve worked with of successful routines before you go into a big presentation and I take you from like you said a couple days before too, you know, the day of but um in general, you want to find the things that work for you that make you feel comfortable and confident. So these are little things like make sure you, you know, you wear your favorite suit that day or you know, whatever your your favorite clothing is when you do a presentation, make sure your technology works. You know that that that’s a big thing to um make sure that if you’re doing paper handouts, make sure you’ve got all those handouts prepared and and you make sure you have enough, make sure you know, the number of people in the room who’s gonna be in the room, you know, find out who’s gonna who’s definitely gonna be in the room. I also have items that I suggest you bring with

[00:51:29.50] spk_0:
you to

[00:51:30.67] spk_1:
any in person presentation at least two bottles of water because you never know when you’re going to jump into a dry mouth situation that has happened to me thankfully I had plenty of water with me. Um also mints and cough drops,

[00:51:46.17] spk_0:
I’ve

[00:51:46.43] spk_1:
also been in situations where I start to have this coughing fit that’s never good. So you want to have a cough drop with you, you know, these are very, very practical tips um and then also making sure beforehand if you’re presenting with somebody else because a lot of times you’re, you know,

[00:52:03.14] spk_0:
you’re

[00:52:34.74] spk_1:
presenting with other people, make sure you know, your roles. So when you’re doing that rehearsal before your presentation, don’t just go into rehearsal and say okay bob, you’re gonna do this and I’m gonna do this and rehearsals over. No, you actually want to go through the presentation. You actually want to have people there in the room from your office, they can sit in and watch, provide feedback. I find when you do that. I know some people are are cringing about it, but it really helps. It gets the rust off, especially if you haven’t done a presentation in a while and it just, it just shows that you know what you’re doing and again, taking it back to athletes, they practice, they practice before, you know, if it’s football every sunday, you know, so those are just a few of the tips, there’s a ton of them in the book, but you know, really getting to know yourself in terms of making you comfortable in that room. Probably one of the most unique tips I give though is having some sort of comfort item with you. Something that if you look at just kind of makes you feel good.

[00:53:02.73] spk_0:
I

[00:53:50.70] spk_1:
talk about my one former account executive I worked with who had a water bottle with pictures of her kids on it which I thought was neat. It’s also a good conversation starter and I had somebody else. I I was managing a gentleman that was kind of in a slump per se um was doing a lot of activity but just the money wasn’t coming in and he decided to bring with him um a a watch that his father used to wear and his father was a former VP of sales and very successful and lo and behold he brought that in with him and from what I understand he still brings it with him to large pitches and he’ll say I’m just keeping track of the time when in actuality it just gives him a sense of comfort and calm. So those are just a just a few tips. And I do emphasize the water a lot though because sometimes if you’re in a situation where you forget something and I should have done this earlier with E. S. G. I could have just taken a sip of my water and a lot of times that shot of H. 20. Will just bring you back to where you need to

[00:54:06.77] spk_0:
be. So

[00:54:07.68] spk_1:
those are just a few tips as well for once you’re in that moment.

[00:54:11.95] spk_0:
Excellent. All right Mimi. Well you could do me me meow meow too because you have a mental message, motion and moment.

[00:54:31.27] spk_1:
Yeah. So in the book I talk about me mi mo gets you to the moment and to your point earlier, you know I try to make it easy off the tongue. The me me meow. You had any other, mm. Yes,

[00:54:32.00] spk_0:
I was right. We don’t want to make

[00:54:33.97] spk_1:
me

[00:54:34.71] spk_0:
me, me, me me meow meow. You know people say well I’m talking to an infant now.

[00:54:39.90] spk_1:
She’s

[00:54:41.51] spk_0:
she’s stuttering. She doesn’t she doesn’t even know her own business. So

[00:54:45.93] spk_1:
okay mi

[00:54:50.34] spk_0:
mi mo 123 in and out. Okay. Um anything else that you know, I’ve asked you a bunch of things? Anything that we haven’t we haven’t talked about that you want to leave the folks with?

[00:56:05.32] spk_1:
Yeah. So um a chapter I get asked about a lot too is called pumpkin spice proposals. And um I thought I would just mention about that pumpkin spice proposal to me is a proposal that just has too much unnecessary stuff in it. And you know sometimes you just need the coffee, you don’t need the pumpkin spice. Right? So I challenge people, look at your proposals. You know, is there the feedback I get a lot from corporate decision makers? Is there too much clip art in it. Are you using their logo over and over? You know I have one gentleman I worked with. that’s what the Fortune 500 he said, I don’t need, I know what my logo is. I know what my company does. You don’t have to put the about us in there. I I get it. Just tell me what it is you want and why us. Um I think good proposals are no more than five pages. Um use a good size font. I think in the book I reference like 11 or 12 point font, Ariel times, new roman calibri as possible. Don’t get too creative. And I know this is tough for people because there’s a lot of seminars out there about proposal templates and you know, there’s a lot of training around it. I just like to keep it simple and that seems to resonate, you know, with a lot of the Fortune five hundred’s that I’ve worked with. So I would like to leave people with, take a look at your proposals. And is there too much pumpkin spice and just not enough

[00:56:22.65] spk_0:
coffee, Mimi, momo, periwinkle zombies, pumpkin spice proposals

[00:56:27.58] spk_1:
all

[00:56:28.36] spk_0:
uh it’s all in the book. The book is uh the boardroom Playbook, You’ll find it at the growth owl dot com where you’ll also find Laurie. Thank

[00:56:39.81] spk_1:
you

[00:57:37.29] spk_0:
amazon two. Okay, amazon. And uh there’s a little site called amazon and then you could go to the growth owl dot com if you want to go there. Thank you very much Lori it’s a real pleasure next week thought leadership and content strategy. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I Beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott Stein. Thank you for that. Affirmation Scotty B with me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95 go out and be great.