Sara Lomelin: Giving Circles
What are giving circles, when did they begin, how do they work, why do they shift power dynamics, and where’s their value for your nonprofit? Sara Lomelin has made these spread throughout the world as CEO of Philanthropy Together.
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Transcript for 651_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20230731.mp3
And welcome to tony-martignetti Nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite Heb Domino podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d be stricken with mono neuritis if you caused me pain because you missed this week’s show. Here’s our associate producer, Kate with the highlights. [00:01:19.70] spk_1:
Thanks, tony. This week we have giving circles. What are giving circles? When did they begin? How do they work? Why do they shift power dynamics and where’s their value for your nonprofit? Sarah Loin has made these spread throughout the world as ceo of philanthropy together on Tony’s take two. Thank you were sponsored by donor box with intuitive fundraising software from donor boxx. Your donors give four times faster helping you help others. Donor Boxx dot org. Here is giving circles. [00:02:14.39] spk_0:
It’s a pleasure to welcome Sarah Loland to nonprofit radio. She believes that everyone, everyone can be a philanthropist, a philanthropy disruptor. Sarah has traveled the world, speaking about the power of collective giving, she’s an expert in diversifying philanthropy as founding ceo of philanthropy together. Sarah is growing a movement of people powered philanthropy to fund grassroots nonprofits shift power dynamics and promote widespread philanthropy. She’s on the National Council of the Women’s Philanthropy Institute at Indiana University’s Lily Family School of philanthropy and the board of Directors of Giving Tuesday and battery powered. Her company is at philanthropy together dot org and she’s at Sarah underscore Lome. Welcome to nonprofit radio. [00:02:26.68] spk_2:
Sarah. Thank you so much, tony. It’s a pleasure to be here with you and I love how you start the, the, the energy of how you start the podcast because, you know, um I’m like that and sometimes I feel like I’m the, you know, the person with all the energy in the world and i it’s very refreshing to, to see you there. Well, thank [00:03:31.10] spk_0:
you very much. Yeah, I, I’m, I’m not one of these. Uh I’m very excited to have Sarah Loin with me today. My excitement, you know, that’s, that, that’s not, that, that, to me, that’s not excitement. So, yes, my pleasure. Uh Yes, high energy, both of us, high energy. So giving circles, giving circles. This is so interesting to me. I wanted to speak to you and then we were on a panel together and then your associate reached out to me and asked if I asked if I would have you as a guest. And I was thinking, yeah, I’ve been trying to, I’ve been, uh it’s, I’ve been on my to do list for maybe six months or so. So, uh I’m grateful that all these factors brought us together giving circles a, a around the pandemic. Is that, is that where they got started or is it before [00:03:35.09] spk_2:
then? Well, ok. Well, [00:03:38.09] spk_0:
ok. Oh, well, they go back hundreds of years. I know that too. Ok, that’s true. All right. Giving acquaintance with giving circles, please. I’m talking too much. [00:05:03.05] spk_2:
No, no, no, no, no, you’re, you’re fine and, you know. Yeah, let’s start with what, what is the giving circle? Right? So again, circle is, you know, a group of people with shared values that get together to create change is um a very effective form of philanthropy that has existed, you know, for many, many, many, many years, they are not new, they are not American, they have existed, you know, the whole idea idea of people banding together to give together is as old as humanity itself. So, you know, there are giving circles all over the world in many, many different cultures. Um Here in the US, the, the the model of a giving circles, as we know, it kind of started getting some spotlights around the eighties. And uh most given circles here in the United States are led by women. So 70% of given circles are led by women. And to this date, like the last research around giving circles, the last, the last landscape research uh was done in 2016. And we saw in that research that there were about 100 and 50,000 people involved in about 1600 given circles at that point that had donated $1.3 billion in the past couple of decades. And that’s throughout, [00:05:14.01] spk_0:
that’s throughout the world [00:05:15.84] spk_2:
that, no, that’s only us. Oh, that’s us. [00:05:18.97] spk_0:
16, 1600 giving circles $1.3 billion. Yeah. How many people, how many people in those six [00:06:40.87] spk_2:
150,000? Ok. So, the great thing is that now, you know, because when you think about research of 2016, it feels like it’s, you know, from 100 years ago, we are just, you know, we’re in the middle of uh updating that landscape research. Actually, the, the, um the survey just closed at the end of May. So we will have the new, the new report in a few months. And, uh you know, are we know anecdote anecdotically that there are many, many more giving circles and many more people uh involved in them. And uh and we would just want to have, you know, the, the numbers to prove it. But to go back to your question around the pandemic, the pandemic was uh a great moment for giving circles in a, in, in a weird way, right? Uh Because a lot of people, I mean, what all of us were stuck at home and many people were thinking, OK, what is, what is mine to give? Right? I don’t want to feel helpless. What can I do from my living room? And we saw many hidden circles getting started uh that didn’t have, you know, geographic barriers. So I will be contacting my cousin in, you know, Ohio and my nephew in New York. And we were started giving circles uh you know, to support different causes. So there were many given circles that were started during the pandemic. [00:07:05.83] spk_0:
You like to talk about the, either I, I some place I saw four someplace I saw 54 to 5 features or, or like sort of steps of, of your, your giving circles. So let’s talk about those, either four or five, however you break it down. [00:07:22.63] spk_2:
Yes. So yes, what do you need to have a uh a, a giving circle, right? Because the giving circle model is super flexible. You and that’s the beauty of it. You can, it’s [00:07:42.22] spk_0:
like, it’s like, it’s like giving Tuesday. It’s no surprise that you’re on the board of giving Tuesday. There’s a lot more nonprofits involved in giving Tuesday than I’m sure they can quantify. Uh it’s, it’s flexible, it’s open ended. They give you some tools and then you go, [00:11:19.04] spk_2:
so you go, you go, you know, you will, you will, you will set the rules that you know, fit with your group, right? So, but there are certain things that you should have. So the first of all is a sense of belonging, right? Create a sense of belonging. This is not solo. Phil is collective giving. So you need a group a group which share values that gets together and you know, they discuss their individual values of the members, you know, what are those values um that guide your giving right and find between the group, what are the common values that will guide the, the group? Um After you talk about, you know, the the values that will guide you giving us a group, then you open a space for discourse and this is something that I love about giving circles because it’s a very good way to practice democracy for us. Uh Like right now, you know how many times we don’t even talk to our neighbors anymore, right? We have become very, that the world has become very polarized. And a given circles, a giving circle creates an opportunity for people with different backgrounds to get together and hear different perspectives and get behind the cause even if they think, you know, very differently in a lot of ways so that you open a space for this course. Uh the group will, you know, decide on a cause that they want to support and they will start, you know, evaluating organizations or, you know, initiatives or leaders that they want to support. So that’s kind of the second step. And then the third step is to give with trust. There’s a lot of trust inside, you know, the giving circle model. Why there is um you know, the pooled money or everybody’s pulling their, their, their funds before they even know where the money is going, right? So there is trust in the process, there is trust with one another with the members of the group. And the whole idea is that that trust will get transferred to the leaders on the ground. Because at the end of the day, you and I and all the audience knows that who knows what the community needs is, the community and the leaders working with the community, not the donors, the donors, we don’t know, we need the are the leaders on the ground to guide us, right? So what we want every given circle is to really create a trusting relationship with their, with organizations that they are going to support. And we always say that we need to give us if we give, we were giving to a family member, right? When you look people in the eyes, when you build an authentic relationship with the organization or the cause that you want to support things change. And II I know you, you know this, but that from all the billions of dollars of philanthropic dollars, the, you know, the majority of the funding goes to just 5% of the nonprofits, right? It goes to the big large nonprofits living so many nonprofits. I under [00:11:34.95] spk_0:
I think you said in uh in your ted talk, 88% goes to 5% 5% of the, the the largest 5% of nonprofits. 88% of the, of, of, of the, that’s in incredible of the gifts in the US. Yeah. That’s, uh that’s staggering. [00:14:04.75] spk_2:
Yes. Like, you know, if you think about like, uh women and girls issues, right? Only 1.4% I think it is right now goes to women and girls issues. If you think about women of color, women and girls of color, it’s not even 1% you know, for the LGBT Q community is one, it’s 0.3% of philanthropic dollars go to support those causes. So it’s like, you know, it’s on all of us to change that. So going back to the steps of the of the giving circle, you know, giving with trust. So, you know, after the the giving circle gets together and they decide and they discuss and they come to a decision of where they’re going to give their gift and they give it the fourth step. And for me, the most important is to, to act in abundance, right? To don’t let’s not just stop with the financial contribution, but go beyond the dollars. So we always say in given so-called, you know, uh language or lingo that we give our five tes, we give our time, our treasure, our testimony, our ties and our talent, right? And so that is the whole idea how can we as given circle members be elevating all the work that the causes that we care about too. And for example, talking about you know, your ties, each person is part of different networks, right? You are part of, you know, your family, you are part of, you know, a company or you know, a nonprofit, you are part of a community opening doors to these nonprofits and nonprofits that you care about, the costs that you care about and put it in front of your networks. Sometimes it’s a lot more important than a grant that you can give or a donation that you can give. Also, you know, elevating the message of nonprofits for something as simple as I am going to subscribe to this nonprofit newsletter. I’m going to, you know, share uh their event on social media. You know, we, we start creating visibility for those small nonprofits that are, you know, totally invisible for. [00:14:23.92] spk_0:
Yeah, they, they don’t, they don’t get the attention. Yeah. All right. I, I have a, I have a bunch of questions. I wanted you to, I want you to explain through, you said we’re, we’re pulling our money before we know where the, where, where it’s gonna go. So I, I understand that trust. Um it’s also a little risky. Like I would be, I see I would be a bad giving circle member because if it didn’t, if the money didn’t go where I voted for, because I assume we’re voting. If it didn’t go to the vote cause I voted for, I’d be like, oh, I’m not, I, I mean, I wouldn’t pull my money out. I would, but I would be so upset but I, you didn’t go for my cause. So I would be a bad giving circle member. II, I think I would be a bad one. [00:16:10.07] spk_2:
Tony. The whole idea of a giving circle to be part of a giving circle is that you are putting your individual decision in the back burner because you are deciding to be part of a group. So you, I I, you know, I managed many giving circles throughout the years. Um and I always said during grants night to the members, like please come with an open heart and an open mind because maybe that organization that you are rooting for is not going to get the crap, but you need to leave the room today feeling happy with the decision of the group because you are part of this group, right? And, and yes, you know, and you will have time to lobby and to, you know, advocate for, for the organization that you care about and maybe it’s not going to happen this time, but maybe in the next grand grand cycle, it is going to happen. And again, you’re not about giving circle member. There are other, there are some given circles that actually allow um the the the the members to I’m making up numbers. But for example, you’re going to give, you know, $1000 each member is going to give $1000 the moment, uh, the grants are allocated, uh, 800 is going to go to the decision of the group, but you will still, will have a small amount that you can give to the organization for your choice. So again, you can, you can figure out the rules that. Oh, [00:16:36.33] spk_0:
ok. So hybrid, right. Ok. All right. So I, I wouldn’t, you know, I’m, I’m exaggerating but I would, I would, I would support the, I would support the decision of the group. OK. But there is a lot, there is a lot of trust. You are. Uh do, do I, I guess this is a question for the each individual circle too. Like does everybody have to give the same amount? [00:16:47.59] spk_2:
Very good question. And then if you different [00:16:49.85] spk_0:
amounts, do you get a, you get more votes? Like do you get, if you give 20% of the, the total, do you get 20% of the vote or do you just get one vote? How we can make, we can make that all up, right? We could do it [00:19:29.14] spk_2:
ourselves. Yes. Because for example, there are many given circles that, you know, there’s a set donation, right? And everybody gives the same. So everybody has one vote. There are other given circles that have um different donation levels in terms of maybe um they’re trying to attract, you know, younger people. So if you’re in your 20 you give this amount, if you’re in your thirties you give this amount if you’re in your forties, this amount or also, you know, in terms of career uh uh development, um there are other given circles that have a floor of the nation like, ok, the floor is $500 but there’s no ceiling. So maybe some members are giving, you know, 5000 or 10,000, but they are still get one vote. And with that extra donation, they are supporting, getting other voices into the given circle and kind kind of sponsoring part of the membership of another given circle member, but they still get one vote. And there are other given circles that do what you mentioned, like there are different membership levels. And if you know, if I’m at the lower level, I get one boat. If I’m on the second, you know, tier, I get two boats. If I’m on the third tier, I get three boats. But that I would say is a very few number of giving circles do that. The majority is, you know, it’s one person, one vote doesn’t matter how much people are giving. There’s another super cool model that um more progressive giving circles are doing that, you know, talking about trust. This is very rooted in trust. Uh There’s a giving circle in New York called Rat Fund and uh it’s a group of friends and what they do is the donation amount is one per it’s 10% of their income. So there is a lot of trust among them because I’m not going to ask, hey, tony, show me your W-2 like, you know, it’s or your tax return, right? It’s like, you know, there is trust that everybody is given what they are able to give and there are also other given circles that there is not a set amount is OK. Everybody gives, you know, something that it’s, you know, significant for you and [00:20:21.30] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Those are all interesting. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Um You talked about AAA relationship with the organization where the, the money is going or maybe in some cases where the majority of money is going because you said you could reserve a little, some circles might reserve a little bit for individual gifts. Um So are we inviting, we are inviting nonprofits to come and present? So the, is that a way of doing it? And then like, how do you open this relationship with the? You don’t just, you don’t just send a check? It’s a lot more than that. Obviously, even your, even your last, your last thing, you know, your last step, you said engagement, uh you know, beyond, you know, giving five Ts and it’s not just treasure. So, but talk about the relationship and might you have nonprofits come and talk to the, make their [00:21:14.93] spk_2:
pitch in a lot of cases. Yes. Yes. And we don’t call it a pitch because, you know, we want to get away from, you know, kind of the, the, the, the, the shark, the Shark Tank, we don’t want the shark tank competition. But yes, you know, uh, the, in a lot of cases, nonprofits get invited to present to the group and, um, in most cases when a nonprofit gets invited to present it because they are going to get a grant. Um, you know, thankfully, uh, the, the more and more I see given circles is that everybody is compensating nonprofits for their time. So if they are asking a nonprofit to fill out, you know, uh a proposal or come to present or whatever is because they are going to get something. Um We work a lot with groups uh to, you know, talk about trust based philanthropy and how you can, you know, do a lot of the homework as a donor, as a giving circle in the background without, you know, taxing the nonprofit with OK, we’re going to, you know, a site visit and you have to deal with 50 of us. You know, [00:21:38.45] spk_0:
it turns into a, a grant, it turns into a grant proposal then, yeah. Yes. [00:23:43.71] spk_2:
Yes. So, but you know, to your point, yes. You know, in a lot of cases the nonprofits get invited to present. So there is this, you know, like face to face, right? And I can tell you, for example, the um in the case of I work eight years at the Latino Community Foundation in San Francisco. And uh and I, and I started the Latino Giving Circle Network there. And so I, I did, I, I was, you know, part of many, many, many grants nights and they were incredible because, you know, the moment you, the moment people hear directly from, you know, the, the executive directors of a nonprofit and have a chance to like, really, you know, kind of like, feel what, what the work entails. It’s, it’s another, another dynamic, right? And, and also, you know, it’s a lot of um I’m not going to say humanizing because it’s not humanizing, it’s getting closer to the work. And uh many times the day after grants night, I had some nonprofit leaders that were, that were coming to present calling me saying, hey, can I join the giving circle like as a donor? Like I love this and many of them joined and I did, on the other hand, many giving circle members that they, you know, they started volunteering with the nonprofits, became board members of the nonprofit or, you know, took some of the trainings, like we have been supporting an organization that um supports um survivors of domestic violence. I have had four members of my guinea circle on that board and they started as volunteers. And you know, so for nonprofits, this is, you know, a big opportunity opportunity to also engage more people around your local community. It’s time for a [00:24:38.37] spk_1:
break donor box. What makes donor box stand out. We heard it last week from Jenna Lynch. It’s a fundraising platform built with fundraisers for fundraisers. They have the Ultra Swift donation form that makes giving four times faster and it cuts down on drop off. They’re a comprehensive fundraising platform along with the Ultra Swift donation form. There’s event ticketing, peer to peer text to give and the new donor box live kiosk so your folks can swipe tap or dip to pay at events. They’re committed to customer support and they understand nonprofits because they all have nonprofit backgrounds. Donor box helping you help others. Donor Boxx dot org. It’s time for Tony’s take two. [00:27:55.53] spk_0:
Thank you, Kate. And my thanks to everyone who has brought us to 650 shows and the 13th anniversary last week’s show was great fun. But I wanna amplify my, my gratitude to, to you, to our listeners, our 13,000 plus listeners each week. I’m glad, so glad that you’re getting value that you’re bringing subjects to your CEO to your vice president or to your board that we’re, we’re just introducing new thinking for you, even if you don’t need to share it with anybody, just so glad that we are able to give you value. And I’m so grateful that you’re a listener. Grateful to our, our insiders. You know, there’s about 1000 1100 people that I email each Thursday that welcome me into their inbox each week. And uh And I’m grateful. Thank you to our insiders. The guests, the guests, the show would be nowhere with the guests. These smart savvy, bright folks who come, they share their time, their wisdom, their thinking for your benefit. They, they, they want to do the same thing that you are doing, helping small and midsize nonprofits. That, that’s, that’s where you’re all situated, that’s where you’re situated. You’re the ones I’m channeling each week thinking about who should be the guest and what would you want to know from that guest? Uh And remember it’s, it’s not just the time on the show, but it’s the time that the guests spend working with me to, to narrow the topics schedule, you know, back and forth all that. So they, they devote a lot of time. My thanks to our probably over 1000 now uh guests and the team, the great team, uh Kate as associate producer, Clare, as creative producer, music from Scott Stein, Mark Silverman, our web guy, Susan Chavez, our social manager. They’re both excellent. Both been with me for many years and I should have given a special shout out when I was talking about the guests. I should have given a special shout to Jean Jean Takagi. Of course, our legal contributor, Amy Sample Ward, our technology contributor because they just come month after month show after show, so generous with their time. All those folks, all of you folks. My thanks, my thanks for getting us to 651 shows and, uh, this week and the 13th anniversary, thank you. That is Tony’s Take two Kate. [00:27:57.55] spk_1:
We’ve got, but loads more time now let’s get back to giving circles with Sarah Loma. [00:28:06.82] spk_0:
I could see how these giving nights would be very moving. I, I, I’m sure, I’m sure there’s tears in some, you know, tears of joy. You know, the collective came together the, the, the bad apples like tony-martignetti, you know, he got put aside [00:28:21.59] spk_2:
and, you know, he [00:28:23.02] spk_0:
got asked to leave, he got asked to leave and that, no, no, no. But [00:28:27.60] spk_2:
uh I could [00:28:31.36] spk_0:
see, I could see how these would be very moving events. [00:28:59.54] spk_2:
Yes. No, totally. One time. Imagine, like we, um we uh hearing from an organization that uh works with refugees and, uh, and does, you know, uh legal help, et cetera, et cetera. And um we were working with them around, you know, an advocacy campaign and they were doing like a uh registering to vote uh campaign, right? With young people. And this young guy came to present and he, he was undocumented and he was, you know, leading a lot of these campaigns in colleges, getting people to register to vote because he said, you know, be, be my voice. I don’t have a voice, I cannot vote but you can. So, you know, those kind of things. It’s like, of course there were tears in this, you know, in these nights? Yeah. [00:29:28.81] spk_0:
Uh Is there a directory of giving circles that, that folks can look to see if there is one in their community or, or more than one [00:30:35.92] spk_2:
great question? Yes, we have on our website which is philanthropy together dot org. We have the global directory of giving circles. So you can put your zip code or you know, some keywords. Um And you will find giving circles near you or you know, around the cause that you care about. If you don’t find one, you are invited to start your own and we offer free trainings every single month. Um It’s a 90 minute training to, it’s called launch pad, launch pad for you that gives you all the tools to start your own giving circle. And not only that because you, you may think, well, you know, 90 minutes is like you get all this information and then what um you are invited after that to be part of, you know, we do monthly group coaching, one on one, you know, coaching sessions with our staff, everything is free of charge. We have a donate what you give, what you can or what you want kind of model because what we want at the end of the day is to have more people engaged in, in, in giving. [00:30:55.13] spk_0:
Are you finding community foundations are sometimes supporting these giving circles or, or spon sponsoring or encouraging [00:32:14.35] spk_2:
these uh great question too. So a lot of um there’s a lot of giving circles that are, that are hosted by community foundations um because, you know, uh to in order to manage donations, right? A lot of giving circles are part of a community foundation. They are a program of, of a community foundation or hosted by them, like fiscally sponsored by a community foundation. Many community found nations have seen the, you know, the benefit of having given circles when they are trying to also grow and strengthen that ecosystem around them, right in their community, many very tiny community foundations when there is not like a big culture of philanthropy in their community find that starting giving circles, it’s a great way to, you know, to attract people and to teach them around philanthropy. And also for a lot of community foundations when they are trying to diversify their, you know, the their, their community of, of donors and, and people that participate in other programs. So we also offer a program for community foundations for Jewish Federations for any faith, you know, uh based organization or philanthropic um intermediary that’s called launch pad for hosts. And that one, we offer it once a year. So it’s uh it’s usually in February and it’s like a six week um program. [00:32:30.31] spk_0:
Oh, that’s more extensive. OK. But [00:32:32.19] spk_2:
yes, yes, because we go through everything and, and you know, even the, the, the what we want is a win-win situation for the host organization and the giving circle. So there’s, you know, a lot of nuances there. [00:32:58.48] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah. More extensive for the host. Yeah. Organizations. Um, are you finding many gifts to individuals? Like, maybe it’s a, maybe it’s an artist or, uh, you know, or, or a startup nonprofit, you know, or someone who wants to start a nonprofit. But they’re, they’re not there yet. Are you finding many donations there? [00:33:49.79] spk_2:
More and more? And actually that is something that changed during the pandemic, right? Because when we saw a lot of mutual aid societies, you know, popping up um a lot of giving circles uh so that, ok, you know, we are giving to nonprofits. Yes, but we also want to give to individuals. Um There is a great network of giving circles that it’s called the Awesome Foundation. Um and the Awesome Foundation gives $1000 at a time to awesome projects and most of those projects, they are individuals and, and, and leaders and initiatives. So the money gets moved really fast and, and they have chapters all over the US. Um And Canada, [00:35:06.26] spk_0:
I could see how this would be such a boost to that. You suggested, you know, giving uh creating a AAA giving culture in a, in a small town or, you know, or, or, or diversifying. These are, these are points you just made, I’m just amplifying them, you know, uh encouraging folks of color to come together. Uh I know from your TED talk, you know, there are, there are uh uh there are, there are uh Pacific Asian Pacific Islander giving circles. There are Black giving circles. There’s all around all kinds of faiths. You, you mentioned Judaism. Yeah. Uh Your TED talk I think mentions Muslim Muslim giving circles. Um So, you know, bringing people together in the, in the community and of course, you know, it could be nationwide too. You had said, you know, your point earlier about the, the, the being the virtual possibility. But, but I love the idea of bringing folks together in the community because they, because they know what, you know, they want, they know what the needs are, they, they, and, and, and we’re all gonna have to sacrifice a little bit. But in the end, we all come together for where each of our, like each of our individual giving circles intersects with everybody else’s giving c individual giving circle. And that’s where the, that’s where the larger giving circle is giving at the intersection of all our individual circles. [00:37:53.85] spk_2:
Totally. And also, you know, I feel that the, the, one of the most important parts of giving circles is that giving circles function as seat, you know, seed funders for a lot of small grassroots nonprofits, right? So that those small, you know, local nonprofits that are, you know, totally invisible from big philanthropy. They may get some money here and there from small, you know, local businesses, they get, you know, some individual donors. But a giving circle is that kind of, you know, seed funder for different projects. And then many small nonprofits lever touch that because if they, you know, they have been supported by a giving circle for a couple of years, they can go to a foundation and said, hey, you know, by the way, this and this given circle has been supporting us, it’s like a seal of approval too, right? And also, you know, something that I wanted to mention that I feel that it’s key, more and more nonprofits are just focusing on the big gifts and I get it. You know, I’m, I’m a fundraiser. So I know that sometimes you think like, ok, there are 24 hours on the day, you know, or we need to, I need to focus on, on the big gift instead of the little gifts, right? But that I think it’s a mistake and why is that we need as nonprofits, we need to diversify our funding because what is going to happen when you’re a big gift, changes, you know, changes uh their mind and you are going and there that big gift is not going to come and you are in trouble if you take the time to really create a big number of supporters, a big ecosystem of everyday givers around your organization, you, you know that that is, that has a ripple effect and it’s going to be great in the future, you know, every time people come and say well you know give in circles. Yeah, they’re cute. No, we’re not cute. It’s we’re awesome. We’re really powerful because you know, engaging, especially younger, the younger generations, right? If you get people, young people passionate about your cause that young person in 10 years, in 20 years, that may be you know, the new whatever whatever entrepreneur, the director of ex corporation and we and but we we need to start somewhere, right? So telling everybody to focus on everyday givers is key, [00:38:10.64] spk_0:
this is empowerment, you know, this is, this is what, what we’re doing. Uh nonprofit radio, big nonprofit ideas for the the other 95% this is who you’re talking about. Because 88% of the gifts go to 5% of the nonprofit. So we’re talking to the same audience, the other 95% are having to split up 12% of all the, of all the formalized giving and, and, and institutional giving and we’re, we’re trying to democratize here. [00:38:41.02] spk_2:
Yeah. And also, you know, for, for the fabric of our society, I feel like because again, like if we, if we keep telling people that can donate $50.20 dollars, uh you know, your gift is not important. [00:38:48.89] spk_0:
That that’s terrible, that’s terrible practice. [00:39:01.10] spk_2:
Uh Yeah, because you know, they will come, you know, the bill the next billion or to, to give the billions and decide what is worthy of funding. It’s bad because then we have people that are not going to be engaged in giving and in generosity and in volunteering and that is dangerous for a country. [00:40:52.87] spk_0:
I could take it a step further. And, you know, because my work is planned giving fundraising and I am routinely saying to clients and to folks that I’m training in webinars that you’re small donors that are consistent that you. Uh and I don’t care if the average gift I’ll give even smaller than you. I don’t care if their average gift is $5. But if they’ve been doing that for many years, like eight gifts out of 10 years or for some nonprofits, it could be 20 gifts in 15 or 20 years. But the, but at a, at a smaller dollar level, they are a terrific prospect for a planned gift because they’re always thinking about you and sometimes maybe multiple times in one year. It’s not even just a single single gift in per year. But those small dollar donors are your, are your very, very good plan giving prospects. Of course, your wealthy donors are too. We’re not excluding them naturally. But, but those small dollar donors who give consistently and do it over many years, they become your planned giving donors and the average, the average gift in a will in the US is $35,000. Nobody, nobody leaves $5 in their will. So, uh so it’s all the, all the more important to be cultivating and encouraging small dollar donors. You know, and some people like to say, modest gifts. I, I, you know, I just say they’re small and, and we’re not commenting on the person’s character, they’re not small people, they just give small gifts. Uh so call it what it is small gift, but they are still, they are still valuable and you’re absolutely right in the future, they can become very, very different types of donors. And my point is they could become very good planned giving donors [00:41:04.37] spk_2:
totally, totally. And also, you know, for me giving circles are again this like a civic engagement, incubators for sure. Yeah. [00:41:10.87] spk_0:
Yeah, [00:41:27.15] spk_2:
civic engagement, incubators, people that participate in giving circles, I mean, there is research behind it that people tend to give more even, I mean, in the given circle and then outside the giving circle and they tend to participate more civically, you know, being part of their neighborhood association, being part of the PT A being part, you know, and that’s what we want, we need engaged people, we cannot, you know, deal in this time with, you know, people just looking at their phones and that’s it. [00:42:08.78] spk_0:
Yeah. No, they, you’re right, engagement, community engagement, civic engagement. You’ve got me thinking about, so we’re talking about giving circles and planned giving. I’m thinking, what about planned Giving circles? I don’t know if there’s something that I don’t know. Well, but planned giving is all individual like, it’s my, you know, it will be based on my will or my life insurance. But we’d have to think about a way to for there to be a collective planned gift. [00:42:47.93] spk_2:
But you know what you might be on something because for example, we could start planned, like, and this could be great for nonprofits around, you know, a specific, like maybe ethnicity or faith or, you know, a specific issue. It’s like you may like those board members or those, you know, recurrent um donors, right? Like they can become part of like a learning community, like a given circle and they can be a pledge, right? They can be kind of like a pledge of a, right? They, they [00:43:27.20] spk_0:
could be that they each make their own commitment but again, they’re, they’re coming together to support the community and to learn together and share ideas together and then they each make their own, their own commitment. But there’s, there’s still the, there’s still the collectivism of, of a giving circle just that the, the, the, the the ultimate gifts are, you know, I’m, I’m doing, I’m doing this one and or maybe they would come together and say, you know, we love this cause. Well, I’m gonna, I’m gonna devote some of my estate, my, some of my will 5% or 2% to this cause and let’s all do it together. I mean, there, there could be that it could be that kind of collectivism too. So I have to think planned giving circles. I don’t write off that idea that, no, no, no, [00:43:31.15] spk_2:
no, no, no, no, I’m going to actually think more about [00:43:52.34] spk_0:
plan giving circles. Yeah, we should, we should talk more about that. Um, all right. What about other nonprofits? So, we, we talked about community foundations and how they could be enablers and hosts and sponsors but other nonprofits. Um, I mean, they could, they, you could encourage giving circles in your community. You could try to find the giving circles that are in your community already and maybe reach out to them. What, what, what do you see as the overlap between nonprofits and giving circles? [00:46:27.32] spk_2:
Totally. So what we have seen is, you know, different nonprofits in, in a certain community working together, right? To create like, you know, again, what you want is to create a strong ecosystem of donors, right? So it’s not about competition, but maybe collaboration with other nonprofits. Um There are nonprofits that are starting giving circles to support their own nonprofit, right? And you may be thinking well, but then it’s not really a very, you know, traditional giving circle because they’re, the group is not deciding uh between different organizations. Yes. And they may be deciding among different projects. So there are some nonprofits that have different projects and they create given circles or donor circles inside, you know, their, their community. And uh and each, you know, each circle will support different projects inside the nonprofit. Um Also, um I mean, again, it’s a really uh uh some organizations, uh the way that, that the way that we have seen it is they’re starting giving circles, like, for example, if they have scholarships, right, uh if they are giving scholarships, but the scholarship uh amount is too large for a single donor. Well, you know, they are encouraging their, their community to create these giving struggles and kind of, you know, give together one scholarship. Um Yes, but, you know, we get uh we get uh calls from many nonprofits because yes, it is a very good way to, to create um this strong, you know, group of supporters because I am going to tell you that a given circle member is not your regular donor is, you know, is someone that is not passive, they are not going to send a check and call it a day. They will be a lot more involved and they will advocate a lot more. So that is, you know, that is the beauty of, of it. Um for some nonprofits, maybe they say my God, no, I don’t want to, you know, to love these people engaging. Um but for, for a lot of nonprofits, it’s something that is, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s working and we actually, because we get so many um calls from different nonprofits. Uh One of our projects for this summer is to tweak one of our programs, the one that we offer for community foundations, but tailor it for small and medium size nonprofits. [00:46:48.44] spk_0:
So you have launch pad, you have launch pad training uh for like host, host training for small and midsize nonprofits. [00:46:54.35] spk_2:
We will have it, we will have it in the fall. We’re working on it this summer to just like tweak the curriculum and we will have it in the fall. Ok. [00:47:03.99] spk_0:
Ok. Uh What have I not asked you about that? Uh that you wanna, you want folks to know? [00:50:05.79] spk_2:
Well, also, you know, we at philanthropy together um we are this umbrella organization and we work with all the networks of giving circles. So there are many, many networks of giving circles around the globe and here in the US. Um So, for example, you know, we talked about uh the faith based giving uh networks, right? The American Muslim Community Foundation amplifier, which is uh a net work of uh giving circles based on Jewish values. There are many networks of giving circles based on ethnicity. So the community investment network is around black and people of color given circles. Uh A PP uh Asian American Pacific Islanders in Philanthropy has uh given circles. Uh the Latino Community Foundation. Um they are political given circles. So um future now has a network of hundreds of political given circles. Um The women’s Given circles, there are many networks of women’s given struggles. So, Fios is a very strong one that, you know, encompasses thousands and thousands of women giving uh together women rights is another network of women’s giving circles that the donors are based in the US, but they give internationally. Um There is also 100 who care Alliance, which has hundreds of chapters. And the model is very easy to follow because it is 100 people given $100 every quarter. So they give, you know, at least $10,000 every quarter. And there are groups of only women, only men coed teenagers, we have seen a lot of teen of groups of teenagers giving together. So, you know, anyway, there’s many, many given circle networks that also if, if people can want to start a giving circle, I encourage everybody to look at the networks because they offer you, you know, support webinars community around the the different, you know, ethnicity or faith or, you know, values, right. Right. And the other thing I think the last thing will be that um this year we’re super excited because uh we added kind of a a second focus around collective giving. So we focused the first few years just on giving circles. Now we’re working also with collaboratives, so collaborative funds. Uh and these, you know, it’s groups of individual donors or institutional funders that get together to tackle the specific costs, right. And these collaboratives, they move from, you know, a million, a couple of million dollars to hundreds of million of million of millions. So we’re excited to, to be working with them too and, and, you know, kind of creating a community and a space for them to learn from one another. [00:50:18.23] spk_0:
Some of those are, are combinations of individual and institutional funders. Yes. Oh, interesting. [00:50:30.52] spk_2:
All right. Yes. Yes. Like for example, you know, Ted has the audacious audacious project and they um this year they granted $1 billion to 10 organizations and the donors are a combination of um individual donors or families and a couple of institutional donors. Yeah. [00:51:09.34] spk_0:
Mm mm All right. Why don’t you just leave us with uh some, some uh inspiration around giving circles, some something positive. Uh Even if you’re just repeating something we’ve already said leave folks with uh something, something upbeat and, and empowering. [00:51:29.71] spk_2:
Yes. OK. So don’t, don’t think of, you know, don’t think too much. It’s not rocket science like people, it’s not rocket science just do it. It’s, it’s a lot of fun and I feel that it’s also why, you know, uh people gravitate around giving circles because it’s a lot of fun. It’s, you know, is, is social, is community and we know that, you know, the issues and the problems of this world are overwhelming and huge giving should be joyful, the act of giving should be joyful and giving together is joyful. So, yeah, and you know, for whatever you need, reach out to us, you know, engage with us and, and thank you tony for, for having me, [00:52:44.45] spk_0:
Sarah. She’s uh ceo of philanthropy together at philanthropy together dot org. Check out the uh launch pad training, whether you’re starting a uh whether you’re a starting on your own or your uh community foundation or, and then for the host training and then in the fall, there’ll be something for small and midsize nonprofits and the ongoing training all at uh all at philanthropy together dot org. And uh Sarah is at Sarah underscore lo Mein. Sarah. Thank you very much for sharing all this. I I love it. Thank you for, for your expertise. Thanks for your energy. Thanks for what you’re doing to empower communities and individuals to come together. Thank you very much. [00:52:49.27] spk_2:
Thank you so much, tony and yes, you know, I’m going to put my arms like you put it because yes, thank you. [00:53:06.56] spk_1:
Next week, leadership lessons with Steve Johns on his new book. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I’d beseech [00:53:10.52] spk_0:
you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. [00:53:28.73] spk_1:
We’re sponsored by Donor box with intuitive fundraising software from donor Boxx. Your donors give four times faster helping you help others. Donor Boxx dot org. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I’m your associate producer Kate martignetti. The show social media is by Susan Chavez, Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by Scott Stein. [00:53:45.68] spk_0:
Thank you for that affirmation. Scottie be with us next week for nonprofit radio, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.
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And welcome to tony-martignetti Nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite Heb Domino podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d be stricken with mono neuritis if you caused me pain because you missed this week’s show. Here’s our associate producer, Kate with the highlights. [00:01:19.70] spk_1:
Thanks, tony. This week we have giving circles. What are giving circles? When did they begin? How do they work? Why do they shift power dynamics and where’s their value for your nonprofit? Sarah Loin has made these spread throughout the world as ceo of philanthropy together on Tony’s take two. Thank you were sponsored by donor box with intuitive fundraising software from donor boxx. Your donors give four times faster helping you help others. Donor Boxx dot org. Here is giving circles. [00:02:14.39] spk_0:
It’s a pleasure to welcome Sarah Loland to nonprofit radio. She believes that everyone, everyone can be a philanthropist, a philanthropy disruptor. Sarah has traveled the world, speaking about the power of collective giving, she’s an expert in diversifying philanthropy as founding ceo of philanthropy together. Sarah is growing a movement of people powered philanthropy to fund grassroots nonprofits shift power dynamics and promote widespread philanthropy. She’s on the National Council of the Women’s Philanthropy Institute at Indiana University’s Lily Family School of philanthropy and the board of Directors of Giving Tuesday and battery powered. Her company is at philanthropy together dot org and she’s at Sarah underscore Lome. Welcome to nonprofit radio. [00:02:26.68] spk_2:
Sarah. Thank you so much, tony. It’s a pleasure to be here with you and I love how you start the, the, the energy of how you start the podcast because, you know, um I’m like that and sometimes I feel like I’m the, you know, the person with all the energy in the world and i it’s very refreshing to, to see you there. Well, thank [00:03:31.10] spk_0:
you very much. Yeah, I, I’m, I’m not one of these. Uh I’m very excited to have Sarah Loin with me today. My excitement, you know, that’s, that, that’s not, that, that, to me, that’s not excitement. So, yes, my pleasure. Uh Yes, high energy, both of us, high energy. So giving circles, giving circles. This is so interesting to me. I wanted to speak to you and then we were on a panel together and then your associate reached out to me and asked if I asked if I would have you as a guest. And I was thinking, yeah, I’ve been trying to, I’ve been, uh it’s, I’ve been on my to do list for maybe six months or so. So, uh I’m grateful that all these factors brought us together giving circles a, a around the pandemic. Is that, is that where they got started or is it before [00:03:35.09] spk_2:
then? Well, ok. Well, [00:03:38.09] spk_0:
ok. Oh, well, they go back hundreds of years. I know that too. Ok, that’s true. All right. Giving acquaintance with giving circles, please. I’m talking too much. [00:05:03.05] spk_2:
No, no, no, no, no, you’re, you’re fine and, you know. Yeah, let’s start with what, what is the giving circle? Right? So again, circle is, you know, a group of people with shared values that get together to create change is um a very effective form of philanthropy that has existed, you know, for many, many, many, many years, they are not new, they are not American, they have existed, you know, the whole idea idea of people banding together to give together is as old as humanity itself. So, you know, there are giving circles all over the world in many, many different cultures. Um Here in the US, the, the the model of a giving circles, as we know, it kind of started getting some spotlights around the eighties. And uh most given circles here in the United States are led by women. So 70% of given circles are led by women. And to this date, like the last research around giving circles, the last, the last landscape research uh was done in 2016. And we saw in that research that there were about 100 and 50,000 people involved in about 1600 given circles at that point that had donated $1.3 billion in the past couple of decades. And that’s throughout, [00:05:14.01] spk_0:
that’s throughout the world [00:05:15.84] spk_2:
that, no, that’s only us. Oh, that’s us. [00:05:18.97] spk_0:
16, 1600 giving circles $1.3 billion. Yeah. How many people, how many people in those six [00:06:40.87] spk_2:
150,000? Ok. So, the great thing is that now, you know, because when you think about research of 2016, it feels like it’s, you know, from 100 years ago, we are just, you know, we’re in the middle of uh updating that landscape research. Actually, the, the, um the survey just closed at the end of May. So we will have the new, the new report in a few months. And, uh you know, are we know anecdote anecdotically that there are many, many more giving circles and many more people uh involved in them. And uh and we would just want to have, you know, the, the numbers to prove it. But to go back to your question around the pandemic, the pandemic was uh a great moment for giving circles in a, in, in a weird way, right? Uh Because a lot of people, I mean, what all of us were stuck at home and many people were thinking, OK, what is, what is mine to give? Right? I don’t want to feel helpless. What can I do from my living room? And we saw many hidden circles getting started uh that didn’t have, you know, geographic barriers. So I will be contacting my cousin in, you know, Ohio and my nephew in New York. And we were started giving circles uh you know, to support different causes. So there were many given circles that were started during the pandemic. [00:07:05.83] spk_0:
You like to talk about the, either I, I some place I saw four someplace I saw 54 to 5 features or, or like sort of steps of, of your, your giving circles. So let’s talk about those, either four or five, however you break it down. [00:07:22.63] spk_2:
Yes. So yes, what do you need to have a uh a, a giving circle, right? Because the giving circle model is super flexible. You and that’s the beauty of it. You can, it’s [00:07:42.22] spk_0:
like, it’s like, it’s like giving Tuesday. It’s no surprise that you’re on the board of giving Tuesday. There’s a lot more nonprofits involved in giving Tuesday than I’m sure they can quantify. Uh it’s, it’s flexible, it’s open ended. They give you some tools and then you go, [00:11:19.04] spk_2:
so you go, you go, you know, you will, you will, you will set the rules that you know, fit with your group, right? So, but there are certain things that you should have. So the first of all is a sense of belonging, right? Create a sense of belonging. This is not solo. Phil is collective giving. So you need a group a group which share values that gets together and you know, they discuss their individual values of the members, you know, what are those values um that guide your giving right and find between the group, what are the common values that will guide the, the group? Um After you talk about, you know, the the values that will guide you giving us a group, then you open a space for discourse and this is something that I love about giving circles because it’s a very good way to practice democracy for us. Uh Like right now, you know how many times we don’t even talk to our neighbors anymore, right? We have become very, that the world has become very polarized. And a given circles, a giving circle creates an opportunity for people with different backgrounds to get together and hear different perspectives and get behind the cause even if they think, you know, very differently in a lot of ways so that you open a space for this course. Uh the group will, you know, decide on a cause that they want to support and they will start, you know, evaluating organizations or, you know, initiatives or leaders that they want to support. So that’s kind of the second step. And then the third step is to give with trust. There’s a lot of trust inside, you know, the giving circle model. Why there is um you know, the pooled money or everybody’s pulling their, their, their funds before they even know where the money is going, right? So there is trust in the process, there is trust with one another with the members of the group. And the whole idea is that that trust will get transferred to the leaders on the ground. Because at the end of the day, you and I and all the audience knows that who knows what the community needs is, the community and the leaders working with the community, not the donors, the donors, we don’t know, we need the are the leaders on the ground to guide us, right? So what we want every given circle is to really create a trusting relationship with their, with organizations that they are going to support. And we always say that we need to give us if we give, we were giving to a family member, right? When you look people in the eyes, when you build an authentic relationship with the organization or the cause that you want to support things change. And II I know you, you know this, but that from all the billions of dollars of philanthropic dollars, the, you know, the majority of the funding goes to just 5% of the nonprofits, right? It goes to the big large nonprofits living so many nonprofits. I under [00:11:34.95] spk_0:
I think you said in uh in your ted talk, 88% goes to 5% 5% of the, the the largest 5% of nonprofits. 88% of the, of, of, of the, that’s in incredible of the gifts in the US. Yeah. That’s, uh that’s staggering. [00:14:04.75] spk_2:
Yes. Like, you know, if you think about like, uh women and girls issues, right? Only 1.4% I think it is right now goes to women and girls issues. If you think about women of color, women and girls of color, it’s not even 1% you know, for the LGBT Q community is one, it’s 0.3% of philanthropic dollars go to support those causes. So it’s like, you know, it’s on all of us to change that. So going back to the steps of the of the giving circle, you know, giving with trust. So, you know, after the the giving circle gets together and they decide and they discuss and they come to a decision of where they’re going to give their gift and they give it the fourth step. And for me, the most important is to, to act in abundance, right? To don’t let’s not just stop with the financial contribution, but go beyond the dollars. So we always say in given so-called, you know, uh language or lingo that we give our five tes, we give our time, our treasure, our testimony, our ties and our talent, right? And so that is the whole idea how can we as given circle members be elevating all the work that the causes that we care about too. And for example, talking about you know, your ties, each person is part of different networks, right? You are part of, you know, your family, you are part of, you know, a company or you know, a nonprofit, you are part of a community opening doors to these nonprofits and nonprofits that you care about, the costs that you care about and put it in front of your networks. Sometimes it’s a lot more important than a grant that you can give or a donation that you can give. Also, you know, elevating the message of nonprofits for something as simple as I am going to subscribe to this nonprofit newsletter. I’m going to, you know, share uh their event on social media. You know, we, we start creating visibility for those small nonprofits that are, you know, totally invisible for. [00:14:23.92] spk_0:
Yeah, they, they don’t, they don’t get the attention. Yeah. All right. I, I have a, I have a bunch of questions. I wanted you to, I want you to explain through, you said we’re, we’re pulling our money before we know where the, where, where it’s gonna go. So I, I understand that trust. Um it’s also a little risky. Like I would be, I see I would be a bad giving circle member because if it didn’t, if the money didn’t go where I voted for, because I assume we’re voting. If it didn’t go to the vote cause I voted for, I’d be like, oh, I’m not, I, I mean, I wouldn’t pull my money out. I would, but I would be so upset but I, you didn’t go for my cause. So I would be a bad giving circle member. II, I think I would be a bad one. [00:16:10.07] spk_2:
Tony. The whole idea of a giving circle to be part of a giving circle is that you are putting your individual decision in the back burner because you are deciding to be part of a group. So you, I I, you know, I managed many giving circles throughout the years. Um and I always said during grants night to the members, like please come with an open heart and an open mind because maybe that organization that you are rooting for is not going to get the crap, but you need to leave the room today feeling happy with the decision of the group because you are part of this group, right? And, and yes, you know, and you will have time to lobby and to, you know, advocate for, for the organization that you care about and maybe it’s not going to happen this time, but maybe in the next grand grand cycle, it is going to happen. And again, you’re not about giving circle member. There are other, there are some given circles that actually allow um the the the the members to I’m making up numbers. But for example, you’re going to give, you know, $1000 each member is going to give $1000 the moment, uh, the grants are allocated, uh, 800 is going to go to the decision of the group, but you will still, will have a small amount that you can give to the organization for your choice. So again, you can, you can figure out the rules that. Oh, [00:16:36.33] spk_0:
ok. So hybrid, right. Ok. All right. So I, I wouldn’t, you know, I’m, I’m exaggerating but I would, I would, I would support the, I would support the decision of the group. OK. But there is a lot, there is a lot of trust. You are. Uh do, do I, I guess this is a question for the each individual circle too. Like does everybody have to give the same amount? [00:16:47.59] spk_2:
Very good question. And then if you different [00:16:49.85] spk_0:
amounts, do you get a, you get more votes? Like do you get, if you give 20% of the, the total, do you get 20% of the vote or do you just get one vote? How we can make, we can make that all up, right? We could do it [00:19:29.14] spk_2:
ourselves. Yes. Because for example, there are many given circles that, you know, there’s a set donation, right? And everybody gives the same. So everybody has one vote. There are other given circles that have um different donation levels in terms of maybe um they’re trying to attract, you know, younger people. So if you’re in your 20 you give this amount, if you’re in your thirties you give this amount if you’re in your forties, this amount or also, you know, in terms of career uh uh development, um there are other given circles that have a floor of the nation like, ok, the floor is $500 but there’s no ceiling. So maybe some members are giving, you know, 5000 or 10,000, but they are still get one vote. And with that extra donation, they are supporting, getting other voices into the given circle and kind kind of sponsoring part of the membership of another given circle member, but they still get one vote. And there are other given circles that do what you mentioned, like there are different membership levels. And if you know, if I’m at the lower level, I get one boat. If I’m on the second, you know, tier, I get two boats. If I’m on the third tier, I get three boats. But that I would say is a very few number of giving circles do that. The majority is, you know, it’s one person, one vote doesn’t matter how much people are giving. There’s another super cool model that um more progressive giving circles are doing that, you know, talking about trust. This is very rooted in trust. Uh There’s a giving circle in New York called Rat Fund and uh it’s a group of friends and what they do is the donation amount is one per it’s 10% of their income. So there is a lot of trust among them because I’m not going to ask, hey, tony, show me your W-2 like, you know, it’s or your tax return, right? It’s like, you know, there is trust that everybody is given what they are able to give and there are also other given circles that there is not a set amount is OK. Everybody gives, you know, something that it’s, you know, significant for you and [00:20:21.30] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Those are all interesting. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Um You talked about AAA relationship with the organization where the, the money is going or maybe in some cases where the majority of money is going because you said you could reserve a little, some circles might reserve a little bit for individual gifts. Um So are we inviting, we are inviting nonprofits to come and present? So the, is that a way of doing it? And then like, how do you open this relationship with the? You don’t just, you don’t just send a check? It’s a lot more than that. Obviously, even your, even your last, your last thing, you know, your last step, you said engagement, uh you know, beyond, you know, giving five Ts and it’s not just treasure. So, but talk about the relationship and might you have nonprofits come and talk to the, make their [00:21:14.93] spk_2:
pitch in a lot of cases. Yes. Yes. And we don’t call it a pitch because, you know, we want to get away from, you know, kind of the, the, the, the, the shark, the Shark Tank, we don’t want the shark tank competition. But yes, you know, uh, the, in a lot of cases, nonprofits get invited to present to the group and, um, in most cases when a nonprofit gets invited to present it because they are going to get a grant. Um, you know, thankfully, uh, the, the more and more I see given circles is that everybody is compensating nonprofits for their time. So if they are asking a nonprofit to fill out, you know, uh a proposal or come to present or whatever is because they are going to get something. Um We work a lot with groups uh to, you know, talk about trust based philanthropy and how you can, you know, do a lot of the homework as a donor, as a giving circle in the background without, you know, taxing the nonprofit with OK, we’re going to, you know, a site visit and you have to deal with 50 of us. You know, [00:21:38.45] spk_0:
it turns into a, a grant, it turns into a grant proposal then, yeah. Yes. [00:23:43.71] spk_2:
Yes. So, but you know, to your point, yes. You know, in a lot of cases the nonprofits get invited to present. So there is this, you know, like face to face, right? And I can tell you, for example, the um in the case of I work eight years at the Latino Community Foundation in San Francisco. And uh and I, and I started the Latino Giving Circle Network there. And so I, I did, I, I was, you know, part of many, many, many grants nights and they were incredible because, you know, the moment you, the moment people hear directly from, you know, the, the executive directors of a nonprofit and have a chance to like, really, you know, kind of like, feel what, what the work entails. It’s, it’s another, another dynamic, right? And, and also, you know, it’s a lot of um I’m not going to say humanizing because it’s not humanizing, it’s getting closer to the work. And uh many times the day after grants night, I had some nonprofit leaders that were, that were coming to present calling me saying, hey, can I join the giving circle like as a donor? Like I love this and many of them joined and I did, on the other hand, many giving circle members that they, you know, they started volunteering with the nonprofits, became board members of the nonprofit or, you know, took some of the trainings, like we have been supporting an organization that um supports um survivors of domestic violence. I have had four members of my guinea circle on that board and they started as volunteers. And you know, so for nonprofits, this is, you know, a big opportunity opportunity to also engage more people around your local community. It’s time for a [00:24:38.37] spk_1:
break donor box. What makes donor box stand out. We heard it last week from Jenna Lynch. It’s a fundraising platform built with fundraisers for fundraisers. They have the Ultra Swift donation form that makes giving four times faster and it cuts down on drop off. They’re a comprehensive fundraising platform along with the Ultra Swift donation form. There’s event ticketing, peer to peer text to give and the new donor box live kiosk so your folks can swipe tap or dip to pay at events. They’re committed to customer support and they understand nonprofits because they all have nonprofit backgrounds. Donor box helping you help others. Donor Boxx dot org. It’s time for Tony’s take two. [00:27:55.53] spk_0:
Thank you, Kate. And my thanks to everyone who has brought us to 650 shows and the 13th anniversary last week’s show was great fun. But I wanna amplify my, my gratitude to, to you, to our listeners, our 13,000 plus listeners each week. I’m glad, so glad that you’re getting value that you’re bringing subjects to your CEO to your vice president or to your board that we’re, we’re just introducing new thinking for you, even if you don’t need to share it with anybody, just so glad that we are able to give you value. And I’m so grateful that you’re a listener. Grateful to our, our insiders. You know, there’s about 1000 1100 people that I email each Thursday that welcome me into their inbox each week. And uh And I’m grateful. Thank you to our insiders. The guests, the guests, the show would be nowhere with the guests. These smart savvy, bright folks who come, they share their time, their wisdom, their thinking for your benefit. They, they, they want to do the same thing that you are doing, helping small and midsize nonprofits. That, that’s, that’s where you’re all situated, that’s where you’re situated. You’re the ones I’m channeling each week thinking about who should be the guest and what would you want to know from that guest? Uh And remember it’s, it’s not just the time on the show, but it’s the time that the guests spend working with me to, to narrow the topics schedule, you know, back and forth all that. So they, they devote a lot of time. My thanks to our probably over 1000 now uh guests and the team, the great team, uh Kate as associate producer, Clare, as creative producer, music from Scott Stein, Mark Silverman, our web guy, Susan Chavez, our social manager. They’re both excellent. Both been with me for many years and I should have given a special shout out when I was talking about the guests. I should have given a special shout to Jean Jean Takagi. Of course, our legal contributor, Amy Sample Ward, our technology contributor because they just come month after month show after show, so generous with their time. All those folks, all of you folks. My thanks, my thanks for getting us to 651 shows and, uh, this week and the 13th anniversary, thank you. That is Tony’s Take two Kate. [00:27:57.55] spk_1:
We’ve got, but loads more time now let’s get back to giving circles with Sarah Loma. [00:28:06.82] spk_0:
I could see how these giving nights would be very moving. I, I, I’m sure, I’m sure there’s tears in some, you know, tears of joy. You know, the collective came together the, the, the bad apples like tony-martignetti, you know, he got put aside [00:28:21.59] spk_2:
and, you know, he [00:28:23.02] spk_0:
got asked to leave, he got asked to leave and that, no, no, no. But [00:28:27.60] spk_2:
uh I could [00:28:31.36] spk_0:
see, I could see how these would be very moving events. [00:28:59.54] spk_2:
Yes. No, totally. One time. Imagine, like we, um we uh hearing from an organization that uh works with refugees and, uh, and does, you know, uh legal help, et cetera, et cetera. And um we were working with them around, you know, an advocacy campaign and they were doing like a uh registering to vote uh campaign, right? With young people. And this young guy came to present and he, he was undocumented and he was, you know, leading a lot of these campaigns in colleges, getting people to register to vote because he said, you know, be, be my voice. I don’t have a voice, I cannot vote but you can. So, you know, those kind of things. It’s like, of course there were tears in this, you know, in these nights? Yeah. [00:29:28.81] spk_0:
Uh Is there a directory of giving circles that, that folks can look to see if there is one in their community or, or more than one [00:30:35.92] spk_2:
great question? Yes, we have on our website which is philanthropy together dot org. We have the global directory of giving circles. So you can put your zip code or you know, some keywords. Um And you will find giving circles near you or you know, around the cause that you care about. If you don’t find one, you are invited to start your own and we offer free trainings every single month. Um It’s a 90 minute training to, it’s called launch pad, launch pad for you that gives you all the tools to start your own giving circle. And not only that because you, you may think, well, you know, 90 minutes is like you get all this information and then what um you are invited after that to be part of, you know, we do monthly group coaching, one on one, you know, coaching sessions with our staff, everything is free of charge. We have a donate what you give, what you can or what you want kind of model because what we want at the end of the day is to have more people engaged in, in, in giving. [00:30:55.13] spk_0:
Are you finding community foundations are sometimes supporting these giving circles or, or spon sponsoring or encouraging [00:32:14.35] spk_2:
these uh great question too. So a lot of um there’s a lot of giving circles that are, that are hosted by community foundations um because, you know, uh to in order to manage donations, right? A lot of giving circles are part of a community foundation. They are a program of, of a community foundation or hosted by them, like fiscally sponsored by a community foundation. Many community found nations have seen the, you know, the benefit of having given circles when they are trying to also grow and strengthen that ecosystem around them, right in their community, many very tiny community foundations when there is not like a big culture of philanthropy in their community find that starting giving circles, it’s a great way to, you know, to attract people and to teach them around philanthropy. And also for a lot of community foundations when they are trying to diversify their, you know, the their, their community of, of donors and, and people that participate in other programs. So we also offer a program for community foundations for Jewish Federations for any faith, you know, uh based organization or philanthropic um intermediary that’s called launch pad for hosts. And that one, we offer it once a year. So it’s uh it’s usually in February and it’s like a six week um program. [00:32:30.31] spk_0:
Oh, that’s more extensive. OK. But [00:32:32.19] spk_2:
yes, yes, because we go through everything and, and you know, even the, the, the what we want is a win-win situation for the host organization and the giving circle. So there’s, you know, a lot of nuances there. [00:32:58.48] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah. More extensive for the host. Yeah. Organizations. Um, are you finding many gifts to individuals? Like, maybe it’s a, maybe it’s an artist or, uh, you know, or, or a startup nonprofit, you know, or someone who wants to start a nonprofit. But they’re, they’re not there yet. Are you finding many donations there? [00:33:49.79] spk_2:
More and more? And actually that is something that changed during the pandemic, right? Because when we saw a lot of mutual aid societies, you know, popping up um a lot of giving circles uh so that, ok, you know, we are giving to nonprofits. Yes, but we also want to give to individuals. Um There is a great network of giving circles that it’s called the Awesome Foundation. Um and the Awesome Foundation gives $1000 at a time to awesome projects and most of those projects, they are individuals and, and, and leaders and initiatives. So the money gets moved really fast and, and they have chapters all over the US. Um And Canada, [00:35:06.26] spk_0:
I could see how this would be such a boost to that. You suggested, you know, giving uh creating a AAA giving culture in a, in a small town or, you know, or, or, or diversifying. These are, these are points you just made, I’m just amplifying them, you know, uh encouraging folks of color to come together. Uh I know from your TED talk, you know, there are, there are uh uh there are, there are uh Pacific Asian Pacific Islander giving circles. There are Black giving circles. There’s all around all kinds of faiths. You, you mentioned Judaism. Yeah. Uh Your TED talk I think mentions Muslim Muslim giving circles. Um So, you know, bringing people together in the, in the community and of course, you know, it could be nationwide too. You had said, you know, your point earlier about the, the, the being the virtual possibility. But, but I love the idea of bringing folks together in the community because they, because they know what, you know, they want, they know what the needs are, they, they, and, and, and we’re all gonna have to sacrifice a little bit. But in the end, we all come together for where each of our, like each of our individual giving circles intersects with everybody else’s giving c individual giving circle. And that’s where the, that’s where the larger giving circle is giving at the intersection of all our individual circles. [00:37:53.85] spk_2:
Totally. And also, you know, I feel that the, the, one of the most important parts of giving circles is that giving circles function as seat, you know, seed funders for a lot of small grassroots nonprofits, right? So that those small, you know, local nonprofits that are, you know, totally invisible from big philanthropy. They may get some money here and there from small, you know, local businesses, they get, you know, some individual donors. But a giving circle is that kind of, you know, seed funder for different projects. And then many small nonprofits lever touch that because if they, you know, they have been supported by a giving circle for a couple of years, they can go to a foundation and said, hey, you know, by the way, this and this given circle has been supporting us, it’s like a seal of approval too, right? And also, you know, something that I wanted to mention that I feel that it’s key, more and more nonprofits are just focusing on the big gifts and I get it. You know, I’m, I’m a fundraiser. So I know that sometimes you think like, ok, there are 24 hours on the day, you know, or we need to, I need to focus on, on the big gift instead of the little gifts, right? But that I think it’s a mistake and why is that we need as nonprofits, we need to diversify our funding because what is going to happen when you’re a big gift, changes, you know, changes uh their mind and you are going and there that big gift is not going to come and you are in trouble if you take the time to really create a big number of supporters, a big ecosystem of everyday givers around your organization, you, you know that that is, that has a ripple effect and it’s going to be great in the future, you know, every time people come and say well you know give in circles. Yeah, they’re cute. No, we’re not cute. It’s we’re awesome. We’re really powerful because you know, engaging, especially younger, the younger generations, right? If you get people, young people passionate about your cause that young person in 10 years, in 20 years, that may be you know, the new whatever whatever entrepreneur, the director of ex corporation and we and but we we need to start somewhere, right? So telling everybody to focus on everyday givers is key, [00:38:10.64] spk_0:
this is empowerment, you know, this is, this is what, what we’re doing. Uh nonprofit radio, big nonprofit ideas for the the other 95% this is who you’re talking about. Because 88% of the gifts go to 5% of the nonprofit. So we’re talking to the same audience, the other 95% are having to split up 12% of all the, of all the formalized giving and, and, and institutional giving and we’re, we’re trying to democratize here. [00:38:41.02] spk_2:
Yeah. And also, you know, for, for the fabric of our society, I feel like because again, like if we, if we keep telling people that can donate $50.20 dollars, uh you know, your gift is not important. [00:38:48.89] spk_0:
That that’s terrible, that’s terrible practice. [00:39:01.10] spk_2:
Uh Yeah, because you know, they will come, you know, the bill the next billion or to, to give the billions and decide what is worthy of funding. It’s bad because then we have people that are not going to be engaged in giving and in generosity and in volunteering and that is dangerous for a country. [00:40:52.87] spk_0:
I could take it a step further. And, you know, because my work is planned giving fundraising and I am routinely saying to clients and to folks that I’m training in webinars that you’re small donors that are consistent that you. Uh and I don’t care if the average gift I’ll give even smaller than you. I don’t care if their average gift is $5. But if they’ve been doing that for many years, like eight gifts out of 10 years or for some nonprofits, it could be 20 gifts in 15 or 20 years. But the, but at a, at a smaller dollar level, they are a terrific prospect for a planned gift because they’re always thinking about you and sometimes maybe multiple times in one year. It’s not even just a single single gift in per year. But those small dollar donors are your, are your very, very good plan giving prospects. Of course, your wealthy donors are too. We’re not excluding them naturally. But, but those small dollar donors who give consistently and do it over many years, they become your planned giving donors and the average, the average gift in a will in the US is $35,000. Nobody, nobody leaves $5 in their will. So, uh so it’s all the, all the more important to be cultivating and encouraging small dollar donors. You know, and some people like to say, modest gifts. I, I, you know, I just say they’re small and, and we’re not commenting on the person’s character, they’re not small people, they just give small gifts. Uh so call it what it is small gift, but they are still, they are still valuable and you’re absolutely right in the future, they can become very, very different types of donors. And my point is they could become very good planned giving donors [00:41:04.37] spk_2:
totally, totally. And also, you know, for me giving circles are again this like a civic engagement, incubators for sure. Yeah. [00:41:10.87] spk_0:
Yeah, [00:41:27.15] spk_2:
civic engagement, incubators, people that participate in giving circles, I mean, there is research behind it that people tend to give more even, I mean, in the given circle and then outside the giving circle and they tend to participate more civically, you know, being part of their neighborhood association, being part of the PT A being part, you know, and that’s what we want, we need engaged people, we cannot, you know, deal in this time with, you know, people just looking at their phones and that’s it. [00:42:08.78] spk_0:
Yeah. No, they, you’re right, engagement, community engagement, civic engagement. You’ve got me thinking about, so we’re talking about giving circles and planned giving. I’m thinking, what about planned Giving circles? I don’t know if there’s something that I don’t know. Well, but planned giving is all individual like, it’s my, you know, it will be based on my will or my life insurance. But we’d have to think about a way to for there to be a collective planned gift. [00:42:47.93] spk_2:
But you know what you might be on something because for example, we could start planned, like, and this could be great for nonprofits around, you know, a specific, like maybe ethnicity or faith or, you know, a specific issue. It’s like you may like those board members or those, you know, recurrent um donors, right? Like they can become part of like a learning community, like a given circle and they can be a pledge, right? They can be kind of like a pledge of a, right? They, they [00:43:27.20] spk_0:
could be that they each make their own commitment but again, they’re, they’re coming together to support the community and to learn together and share ideas together and then they each make their own, their own commitment. But there’s, there’s still the, there’s still the collectivism of, of a giving circle just that the, the, the, the the ultimate gifts are, you know, I’m, I’m doing, I’m doing this one and or maybe they would come together and say, you know, we love this cause. Well, I’m gonna, I’m gonna devote some of my estate, my, some of my will 5% or 2% to this cause and let’s all do it together. I mean, there, there could be that it could be that kind of collectivism too. So I have to think planned giving circles. I don’t write off that idea that, no, no, no, [00:43:31.15] spk_2:
no, no, no, no, I’m going to actually think more about [00:43:52.34] spk_0:
plan giving circles. Yeah, we should, we should talk more about that. Um, all right. What about other nonprofits? So, we, we talked about community foundations and how they could be enablers and hosts and sponsors but other nonprofits. Um, I mean, they could, they, you could encourage giving circles in your community. You could try to find the giving circles that are in your community already and maybe reach out to them. What, what, what do you see as the overlap between nonprofits and giving circles? [00:46:27.32] spk_2:
Totally. So what we have seen is, you know, different nonprofits in, in a certain community working together, right? To create like, you know, again, what you want is to create a strong ecosystem of donors, right? So it’s not about competition, but maybe collaboration with other nonprofits. Um There are nonprofits that are starting giving circles to support their own nonprofit, right? And you may be thinking well, but then it’s not really a very, you know, traditional giving circle because they’re, the group is not deciding uh between different organizations. Yes. And they may be deciding among different projects. So there are some nonprofits that have different projects and they create given circles or donor circles inside, you know, their, their community. And uh and each, you know, each circle will support different projects inside the nonprofit. Um Also, um I mean, again, it’s a really uh uh some organizations, uh the way that, that the way that we have seen it is they’re starting giving circles, like, for example, if they have scholarships, right, uh if they are giving scholarships, but the scholarship uh amount is too large for a single donor. Well, you know, they are encouraging their, their community to create these giving struggles and kind of, you know, give together one scholarship. Um Yes, but, you know, we get uh we get uh calls from many nonprofits because yes, it is a very good way to, to create um this strong, you know, group of supporters because I am going to tell you that a given circle member is not your regular donor is, you know, is someone that is not passive, they are not going to send a check and call it a day. They will be a lot more involved and they will advocate a lot more. So that is, you know, that is the beauty of, of it. Um for some nonprofits, maybe they say my God, no, I don’t want to, you know, to love these people engaging. Um but for, for a lot of nonprofits, it’s something that is, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s working and we actually, because we get so many um calls from different nonprofits. Uh One of our projects for this summer is to tweak one of our programs, the one that we offer for community foundations, but tailor it for small and medium size nonprofits. [00:46:48.44] spk_0:
So you have launch pad, you have launch pad training uh for like host, host training for small and midsize nonprofits. [00:46:54.35] spk_2:
We will have it, we will have it in the fall. We’re working on it this summer to just like tweak the curriculum and we will have it in the fall. Ok. [00:47:03.99] spk_0:
Ok. Uh What have I not asked you about that? Uh that you wanna, you want folks to know? [00:50:05.79] spk_2:
Well, also, you know, we at philanthropy together um we are this umbrella organization and we work with all the networks of giving circles. So there are many, many networks of giving circles around the globe and here in the US. Um So, for example, you know, we talked about uh the faith based giving uh networks, right? The American Muslim Community Foundation amplifier, which is uh a net work of uh giving circles based on Jewish values. There are many networks of giving circles based on ethnicity. So the community investment network is around black and people of color given circles. Uh A PP uh Asian American Pacific Islanders in Philanthropy has uh given circles. Uh the Latino Community Foundation. Um they are political given circles. So um future now has a network of hundreds of political given circles. Um The women’s Given circles, there are many networks of women’s given struggles. So, Fios is a very strong one that, you know, encompasses thousands and thousands of women giving uh together women rights is another network of women’s giving circles that the donors are based in the US, but they give internationally. Um There is also 100 who care Alliance, which has hundreds of chapters. And the model is very easy to follow because it is 100 people given $100 every quarter. So they give, you know, at least $10,000 every quarter. And there are groups of only women, only men coed teenagers, we have seen a lot of teen of groups of teenagers giving together. So, you know, anyway, there’s many, many given circle networks that also if, if people can want to start a giving circle, I encourage everybody to look at the networks because they offer you, you know, support webinars community around the the different, you know, ethnicity or faith or, you know, values, right. Right. And the other thing I think the last thing will be that um this year we’re super excited because uh we added kind of a a second focus around collective giving. So we focused the first few years just on giving circles. Now we’re working also with collaboratives, so collaborative funds. Uh and these, you know, it’s groups of individual donors or institutional funders that get together to tackle the specific costs, right. And these collaboratives, they move from, you know, a million, a couple of million dollars to hundreds of million of million of millions. So we’re excited to, to be working with them too and, and, you know, kind of creating a community and a space for them to learn from one another. [00:50:18.23] spk_0:
Some of those are, are combinations of individual and institutional funders. Yes. Oh, interesting. [00:50:30.52] spk_2:
All right. Yes. Yes. Like for example, you know, Ted has the audacious audacious project and they um this year they granted $1 billion to 10 organizations and the donors are a combination of um individual donors or families and a couple of institutional donors. Yeah. [00:51:09.34] spk_0:
Mm mm All right. Why don’t you just leave us with uh some, some uh inspiration around giving circles, some something positive. Uh Even if you’re just repeating something we’ve already said leave folks with uh something, something upbeat and, and empowering. [00:51:29.71] spk_2:
Yes. OK. So don’t, don’t think of, you know, don’t think too much. It’s not rocket science like people, it’s not rocket science just do it. It’s, it’s a lot of fun and I feel that it’s also why, you know, uh people gravitate around giving circles because it’s a lot of fun. It’s, you know, is, is social, is community and we know that, you know, the issues and the problems of this world are overwhelming and huge giving should be joyful, the act of giving should be joyful and giving together is joyful. So, yeah, and you know, for whatever you need, reach out to us, you know, engage with us and, and thank you tony for, for having me, [00:52:44.45] spk_0:
Sarah. She’s uh ceo of philanthropy together at philanthropy together dot org. Check out the uh launch pad training, whether you’re starting a uh whether you’re a starting on your own or your uh community foundation or, and then for the host training and then in the fall, there’ll be something for small and midsize nonprofits and the ongoing training all at uh all at philanthropy together dot org. And uh Sarah is at Sarah underscore lo Mein. Sarah. Thank you very much for sharing all this. I I love it. Thank you for, for your expertise. Thanks for your energy. Thanks for what you’re doing to empower communities and individuals to come together. Thank you very much. [00:52:49.27] spk_2:
Thank you so much, tony and yes, you know, I’m going to put my arms like you put it because yes, thank you. [00:53:06.56] spk_1:
Next week, leadership lessons with Steve Johns on his new book. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I’d beseech [00:53:10.52] spk_0:
you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. [00:53:28.73] spk_1:
We’re sponsored by Donor box with intuitive fundraising software from donor Boxx. Your donors give four times faster helping you help others. Donor Boxx dot org. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I’m your associate producer Kate martignetti. The show social media is by Susan Chavez, Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by Scott Stein. [00:53:45.68] spk_0:
Thank you for that affirmation. Scottie be with us next week for nonprofit radio, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.