Raj Aggarwal & Vanice Dunn: Whole Self To Work What does it mean for marginalized folks to bring their whole selves to work? Why does it matter for your org when people of color feel they can’t be fully themselves in your office? Our panel answers these and offers subtle but powerful strategies to dismantle barriers. They’re Raj Aggarwal and Vanice Dunn, both from Provoc. (Also from 19NTC.)
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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the trials of hyper amnesia if I had to recall that you missed today’s show. Youth Leadership. Our panel of youths and a program coordinator explains how to engage young people in organizational decision making, using technology development as their vehicle. They’re Sarah Hong from Park Youth Collaborative Lucky Limb with Nature Bridge, Marin Headlands and Lily sametz. So at Golden Gate National Parks Conservancy that was recorded at 19 NTC and whole Self to work, what does it mean for marginalized folks to bring their whole Selves to work? Why does it matter for your or GE when people of color feel they can’t be fully themselves in your office? Our panel answers these and offers subtle but powerful strategies to dismantle barriers. They’re Raja Agarwal and Vinny’s, done both from provoke. That’s also from 19 and T. C. Tony’s take to your board’s role in planned e-giving responsive by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers wetness cps dot com like koegler Mountain software, Denali fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn, to communications, PR and content for non-profits. Their story is your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO And here is youth leadership. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC. That’s 2019 non-profit technology Conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon, and all of our 19 NTC interviews are brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools for non-profits to make an impact. I’m with Sara Hong Lucky Limb and Lolly sametz. Oh, Sarah, seated next to me is youth leader at Park Youth Collaborative Lucky limb is environmental education Mentor ship Intern at Nature Bridge Marin Headlands on lolly sametz So is the high school programs coordinator at Golden Gate National Parks Conservancy. Sarah Lucky Lolly. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, have you So so I’m 56 years old. So But you think there are things that I can learn from all of you? Yes, there are definitely out there. I have no doubt of it. Okay, Okay. So your seminar topic is use the voice and design thinking, problem solving with empathy and scientific method. Okay, so let’s let’s just make sure everything is clear. So where you you are? You were each Sarah and lucky you were each interns at Golden Gate with some program in the Golden Gate Parks Conservancy. Is that OK? And Lily, of course. You’re the coordinator of interns and other volunteer programs or just intern. It was coordinated the Youth Advisory Council, which is made of high school students Where Sarah unlucky were part of Okay. Okay, um and so had you had you will put this workshop topic together. You’re from the from Golden Gate. So you’re from California. Had you will decide to come to this Portland, uh, conference and and teach us something, Had it all out of this whole thing come together. So the youth Advisory Council was tasked with with creating at NAP and a website that would get more Bay Area youth of color or underrepresented youth into the national parks. So in order to do that, we thought it was best for us to host a hackathon, but it kind of straight away from the concept of a hack down where you just called him back. And instead we opted for design thinking to get youth two actually create their own tool in which they would get more access into the part so they would be creating in the website or an app that would piqued their interest into the national parks. And that’s how we got into using design thinking. And that’s what that was. What is our inspiration for this session, right? And how did you end up here at the non-profit Technology conference? Whose idea was it to put this thing together? Come here. So our boss, Jessica, actually, she thought that our hackathon was such a success because we did lead 60 youth initially at the hackathon. And so, uh, you know, we wanted to spread Maura that message of the hack a thon to other youth and maybe just other people. So she actually found she’s been to end 10 before on So she kind of saw that they were having sessions, so we kind of created a proposal, and then we got we got those sessions. So luckily we got that. Okay, Lily, what’s what’s the advantage? You’re the adult in the group. I know. I don’t know if I’m the adult. Well, bye bye. Title. Maybe not by age. And maybe not by agent on emotion and thinking, but by title Uru you got the coordinator, Your coordinator? Yes. Okay, So what’s the advantage of empowering youth and youth leadership in our non-profits? Um I mean, I think a lot of non-profits are talking these days about, like, having diverse voices and being inclusive and things like that. But at the Golden Gate National Parks Conservancy, we actually implement that and that are you centered Crissy Field Center. We way actually, let the youth Cole lead whatever they are inspired to do. So that was our mission to be like. Okay, so now you facilitate this hack a thon if you want. Like, what is the like? What do you guys want to do? And I think the importance and that is that way need to let go sometimes, uh and, um, now try to project on what we think youth want or what they need. I think they need a little bit of structure, Sure, but essentially, they’re very brilliant, and they can lead themselves with a little bit of structure and support. Yes, that’s where that’s my role. I was like, support, like the administrative. And, you know, there’s money behind these things and time time arranging meetings, making around track, um, you know, reminders And like providing feedback. Okay. Essentially, they were the ones that put this together. Okay, So, uh, what can we learn from allowing youth to be leaders allowing you to be a leader? What? What the what the adults in the room gonna learn? Well, yeah. OK, so, no, it’s fine. I think it might sound cliche to say that like, uh, e-giving us that space to be leaders will create change. But we really do. We really will create change our communities. We have that confidence. And so just giving us that voice lets us be ourselves. And so when we ourselves, we could just do great work, you know? So I just think through youth voice that we can also be on that same level as adults in all professionals and creating different careers of that, is there? Is there any problem with you having that voice and speaking it? I mean, is there is there reluctance among folks your age, Thio to speak out, exercise the voice. Oh, most definitely. There’s no there’s no problem. I just think that we have to have that space because it is. I would say like now we have being around not but being a rabbit holes, being around adults kind of is intimidating, but because there’s kind of that power structure. But I think that when youse are comfortable and they know that they have a purpose, that they can implement that voice. So there’s no problem speaking the voice it’s getting no getting that old. Listen exactly something Everybody’s fake listening, you know? I mean, yeah, yeah. Brooke blow off. Yeah. Okay. Are lucky you say something You haven’t talked for a couple of minutes. Safe sex isn’t about the importance of it. The value of it. Yeah. I think that, um youth, obviously society is always getting more progressive. And we always have to rely on you since we are Maur inclusive and we are always thinking of diversity. Okay. And you are the future leaders. Exactly. Okay. So you may as well start you start young. Yeah, right now are the current leader is right. The current leaders off what they’re leading. Yeah, Future leaders of the nation. Okay, you’re right. Thank you. All right, it’s time for a break. Wagner, CPS. They had a free wedding are on August 21st Fair labor standards act Nuts, bolts and updates. Don’t fret. The archive is up. Uh, calculate the archive. Yes, you could get to the archive. What’s the point of this Webinar Wigan are you? Calculate the regular rate of pay and overtime for your employees and for yourself helps you understand. Paid versus unpaid time and Maur, you go to regular cps dot com. Click resource is and recorded events for the archive now back to youth leadership. So this is certainly the only panel where I’m gonna ask ages because I think it’s relevant. I think it’s relevant to the audience is relevant to this topic. People know how old you are, Sarah. I’m 18. Okay, lucky I’m also 18. Okay, Lily, you’re a coordinator. You don’t have to answer. If you don’t want to tell you our it’s up to you. You could defer 28. Okay. Okay, fine. 20 years young. Right. Ok, Ok. Good enough. Um, okay. So lucky You did pretty good explanation of what this program was about, but you said it involved. Originally, we were going to straight hackathon, and then it evolved into design, thinking it was always going to have design thinking is this. We use the term hackathon because it did involve creating or the concept. Okay, conceptions of act. Okay, let zoho for the for the adult listeners. Let’s make sure that everybody knows what design thinking means. I’ll explain it all right? So design thinking has five steps, and basically it’s an interview process. Um, the first step of design thinking it’s empathize in which to collect data on your user and try to understand their emotions and feelings, and then define is in which you take the data that you collect from empathize, and then you create a problem statement and try to get at a point of view off your user. In an idea, you come up with multiple solutions. Um, because of this step, you don’t really focus on the quality of the solution. You focus more on the quantity and how many different solutions are you create because design thing, it’s Edward. If you do it over and over again, It’s not about perfecting your solution. After you go through idea, you create a prototype of one of the solutions that you create. And then with that prototype, you will be handing it to your user or target audience, and they will be interacting with it and they’ll give you feedback on it. And then with that feedback, you can go back to the previous steps and start tweaking your solutions. Or you might find that you completely misunderstood your target audience and not to have to do it over again. Yeah, so it really focuses on your target audience is wants and needs. It’s a product design process. Okay, You’re gonna say Pivot, You thought I wouldn’t know what it means, right? Tell me. I was I wasn’t even thinking about it, but Okay, that’s good. OK, now I know it fits. I was afraid you were. You thought that this guy’s not gonna know what that means. Um, Had a better engage a part of the meeting from your program. Descriptions Better engage users in creating technology solutions to address their needs using using design, thinking. Okay. The project here was to get under represented youth into Golden Gate National Park Take advantage. The programs that Yes. Yeah. And it was one way Waas to create a youth portal. And so how that that would look like in engaging more young people of color? Could be through an apple website, but we didn’t know that. And so that’s why we hosted a hackathon four Bay area use of color for 14 to 26 so they can give us inputs and ideas on what would the use portal actually look like? What would it could look like? OK, eso Sarah. What? What’s something we learned from this from the exercise of the design thinking? Yeah. So I think going through that process, it’s much different than just simply asking the user. What? What do you want? Cause they won’t know what they want. Unless six broad question. Right? Such a broad question that you have to kind of have their minds turning. And so why from that exercise we learn Like how? What? What we really need from that process, we really focus and hone in on need versus what we want. What did you find out? Some of those needs are those needs that we need for in terms of bringing Bay Area used to the parties to the park. It’s hard to get to the parks in the city if you don’t know we have a really good transportation system. But but all that transportation, it kind of goes towards downtown versus the park’s withdrawn the outer edge of the city. First way. Can’t get there exactly basics. So beautiful park advice from with pictures in the look. Nice. Expensive. Okay, It’s like it’s what? Why would they want to go to this? Why would I want to go to a park? Right? Like if they have all these other things in the city to do, it’s how. What would make you interested to go to the parks? And so that’s what we were kind of asking them. What? How? Yeah, basically, how they wanted to kind of do things in the park that would kind of sparked their interest. Okay, Like what? What could the park feature looking that did you learn that would be attractive? A lot of people were interested in hiking, camping and also kayaking. So one of our prototypes that my group created from the hack a thon is that we created this idea of, ah gear library where people could borrow camping gear or kayaking or any other like gear that you can use in ah recreational park. And then it would be hosted in facilities within the park. And we would have an app that would be a catalogue for that library. And they can check when it’s available, when it’s not when it’s in use and can use a digital inventory. Yeah, Okay, Ellie, that sounds to me like something that the conservancy could fund-raising around. Sounds like something. Uh ah foundation. Or maybe an individual donor or to a couple donors could be interested in a Gere gear library for bringing, bringing thes populations to the to the Yes. Well, yeah, actually, there that that becomes your That’s your job. That’s your actually goes to the fund-raising part of your urine. The volunteermatch judgment. But thing is awesome. The attention of your libraries doable. Yes, it transit passes baby through the school. I don’t know. We actually we actually have that way. Actually, transit passes because of the because because of the idea coming out of the design thing, Not, not exactly, but it’s more about access And so we kind of worked with Yeah, so no. But they’re passes to get you into the park there. Yeah, we have. So there. It’s kind of complicated, but we are, like, special trainable. There are special national Park days where we do host where they have free national park days. Okay, so Okay, so So where transit is Free me, like drink. Well, transit for youth. Uh, agent under 18 is free on those park treyz. Well, in general wolber. Okay. Okay, wait. Okay. I’m confused. I thought I thought I thought it was expensive to get to the park. But you’re saying under 18 under 18 it’s free. That’s an expensive, I guess, Because you also it’s not only the buses, but there’s also a bar. Oh, it’s not only the buses, but it’s also barred like, Is it free? It’s not freedom. Right? But if you’re under its run uni exactly. So there’s a distinct it takes multiple sources of transportation to get to the park and so on. Lee Yoon hee is free is not, is not okay. Okay, Now, if I and improve this listeners, there could be 13,000 feet over 30 30,000 plus wondering what she said. But it’s just so the adult in the room, you know, screwed it up. Okay, also, they’re all expensive, but parts of it are. It’s only as good as the weakest the most. It’s only as strong as the cheapest method. Yeah, Okay, so now back to the fund-raising. So So the program developed this cool idea of a gear library with an online inventory. That sounds like something that’s Funda ball. Yes. I’m not saying I’m a professional fundraiser. I’m not saying you go out and you know we’re gonna have the money. I’m not saying that at all. It might take a year, but it sounds like something that attract could be attractive to institutional or individual funders. Absolutely. And also during the hackathon, there are nine different teams that had very tangible solutions for this portal features. And there are grants available that will can fund of these different features. Your library, look, your library get funded. Well, it’s not necessarily know what’s great Way got screwed. Your life were making the subject. No, The thing is, we’re working with developers to see what features could work in with portal right so they’re picking and choosing from each of these ideas. Thio make one accessible port for the So it’s not like we’re making just a gear library, right? We want incorporated a variety of opportunity. Really, really, really bad past. Solve a problem like that’s the mail. It’s a problem. A solution. You’re done. Passes. Bart, don’t. All right. All right. Um, engaging youth in organizational decision making. That’s a good one. That’s a good one. Um, how much? How much authority did do you have in buy-in? How much? How much decision making authority did you have in designing this? Designed the whole program. We actually have a lot of input. So where we kind of go off the quote of, like for you by you? And so we’re very especially at the conservancy eso at the Golden Gate. We have. Since the whole program is focused on youth programs, we actually get a lot of input. We had a lot of say into what we’re doing, what we how we implement things and even what we spend so and what do you learn from that way? Learned so much? I think it kind of autonomy teaches us that we kind of going off of what we’ve been teaching and preaching kind of youth voice. So it’s very were, since we have that voice we can implement and work work to improve and grow on how we do our own lucky. What’s your take on that? What? What what do you feel like? You learn from managing the program yourself Just a lot of responsibility. And like independence for a hackathon we actually broke into, like, groups of, um we just broke into groups with different tasks, and some people were tasked with food some people were tasked with, like focusing on creating the session and organizing everything. So yeah, Okay, um, confidence at all like, is that there any confidence building your case with a lot of confidence? We actually learned a lot of public speaking so confident we have confidence were ableto public. Speak a little better. Okay, Speaking is good because then you can convey your confidence. Exactly. Don’t do stupid like I do. I’m ranting about gear. Libraries don’t even when I’m talking about So don’t take, don’t take. We’ll take an example from here. That is what not to do. This example taken example but it’s a negative one. Um, okay, so then it must be more about you. What about How does the organization benefit? Lally? How does the conservancy benefit from his youth leadership? Well, the conservancy is big, and so we have what’s called the Crissy Field Center and that’s a youth center. A portion of the building in National Parks Conservancy. How does it benefit? I mean, if we are truly, um, if we truly said that we want to serve our young people and promote leadership and voice, then we should actually be practicing it versus just having it on our page or having it as a as a mission. I think it’s it’s easy to say it, but then actually, implementing it becomes harder walk more like literally. Yeah, and the thing is really working well. And also it takes time. So if I’m delegating rolls toe young people to actually take on responsibilities, we have to also support them and train them. So it’s like an added layer, right, instead of me doing the work for them or telling them what to do. So I think that that’s a downside. Yeah, yeah, well, no, but but not profits to know that, you know, you have to invest. You have to invest in your program. If you’re gonna actually do what you say, be true to what you say. Then you’re gonna have to invest in it. And that takes time. And it takes money, right? And it really does take time and intentionality. So even with, for example, even with the design thinking like, I had to learn it. So I just learned it on Stanford’s website. Watch the crash course an hour and 1/2 bam, bam! And then I have to, like, translate that to the for the young people. So that’s another added layer versus them, just going through the process, right? So there’s a lot of code switching and, like, language and curriculum changing and things like that for them to digest it, right? Was it hard for you? D’oh! Were you, uh, an advocate of this of the youth program and youth leadership? Was it hard for you to get buy-in from the people who needed to approve it? No, because there was They’ve been doing it for a while. It’s not something new, but I think, um, this is like another step right coming to the conference. I think that has never I don’t think that’s ever happened. And so this is like, where we’re showing a public showcasing the work that they’re doing. So I think that is the added layer of like, Okay, we’re really doing it. How does the Conservancy feel about that? I think great. Yeah, right. Well, I know that I know. You know, I don’t ask about that. Is a conservative side looking at Nancy? I think I feel great. I think they are very proud of us. I think there’s a lot of cheers and, um yeah, all right. Another like, three minutes or so together 34 minutes together. What else have you done? Your topic already? Always asked. Have you done the seminar already? Possession. You did it. Okay yesterday. Okay. So what else did you talk about? That we haven’t talked about here? Share. Don’t hold out on non-profit radio listeners. What else? What else did you talk about? Maybe Like you’re, um, how you started off until your leadership and like, your voice, you know, talk about what voice matters more about voice. We did talk about boys. Is there more to say. Uh, come on, Spend 75 minutes in front of an audience to We’ve been talking for about 20. So you’re holding out on non-profit radio listeners? I’m not gonna have it Pressure. Well, there’s other other stuff. What did you What did you say in front of the audio? Maybe the process of design thinking like how people like reacted to that? No, that’s all. You’re lucky. Wait. It was very interactive way. Just had every single person go through the process of design thinking with their partners. So they were, like, working to create a product for their partners to solve their needs. Yeah, it was very interesting to see people that process because there was a lot, like, a lot of confusion messiness. But then people get so caught up on trying to perfect a lot of good things can come out of confusion. Investigate? Yeah. Don’t Don’t don’t Don’t fear that. Please tell them. Please tell them we knew that. But you know, they they all right, I got another. I got another way to approach is what for Lucky and Sarah s. So we got 13,000 listeners to this podcast each week they work in non-profits begin small, small could be two people And they could be, well, small and midsize non-profits, but big for us to be colleges, hospitals. When you consider that Stanford University is on the begin, our listeners are small and midsize. Okay, so what would you, uh, would you like to say to the leaders of small and midsize non-profits about youth decision making his empowerment youth voices? Uh, so to the non-profits, I believe you should definitely implement youth voice whether it’s relevant or not to your work. I think I kind of like you said earlier. Starting young starting young always approves, improves many, many professional careers and promotes, like, used developments. I believe you should definitely incorporate youth for us because it is very, very important. Okay. Yeah, like what? Sarah said work with youth. Because if you train us to be come, um, more confident and have more leadership skills. We are going to be the working in these future field. So it would be better for the future to have us more competent and and also have the organization get that voice Currently, benefit is if you’re serving youth at all if they’re going to your why or if they’re going to your community health center If you’re serving families. Families include people who are young. Let’s let’s include their voice. Maybe not on the board of trustees. Although, baby, I actually think you can include a youth on the board of trustees. It’s interesting. You know what my fear is? That with person is youth is gonna be intimidated. I don’t think so. I think you have. I don’t think so. I think you structure it right. How do you know if you never have a youth representative, right? If your structure right to not intimidate Exactly right. So you have to give them a voice. You said earlier that you know, this is not just a like a perfunctory, you know, blow off kind of committee. It’s got real voice. If you give the person real voice, give them that opportunity. A riel place on committees. Andi, listen, they’re gonna know that they’re being hurt. Yes, and they’ll take that seriously. I mean, it’s it’s real ideas, like real things that could be implemented. Okay, here’s your here. And if it’s not trustees and advisory committee, okay. But not that as the default. This is all right. All right, We’re gonna leave everybody. All right, all right. Thank you. Thank you. You’re very welcome. They are Sarah Hong, youth leader at Youth at the Partners Collaborative. Lucky Limb, Environmental Education Mentor, ship intern at Major Bridge, Marin Headlands and Lolly to May. So High school programs coordinator at Golden Gate National Parks Conservancy. That’s them. We are non-profit radio. You’re listening to our coverage of 19 ntc non-profit technology Conference on all of our 19 ntcdinosaur. Views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software quote We use Denali Fund for non-profits. It’s easy to track how much is in each fund-raising simple to use. And the training is very helpful and thorough. Customer service has been responsive and caring and quote. That’s Laurie D from a church quote all the features of a sophisticated fund accounting system at a reasonable cost end quote. That’s Kim T from Lawrence Township koegler mathos software. They have a free 60 day trial at tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now it’s time for Tony’s Take two Your board’s role in planned e-giving. Um, naturally, there’s a video on the subject, but ah, little synopsis. There’s a lot that you’re bored conduce around planned e-giving. Naturally, it starts with their own personal gif ts that the goal is 100% participation that every boardmember. Has your organization in their state plans somewhere bequest my will, absolutely fine, but that they all have done something beyond that. Um, they should be encouraging their peers on the board. So as you’re trying to get this 100% participation, you’re asking boardmember to solicit each other. Um, they could be doing direct asks of others other, of course, other non board members that can host events for you. They can make introductions to others who may be interested in the organization, and that could lead to planned gifts for you. All right, And there are other ways that your boardmember is can be involved in very actively buy-in planned giving. You find the rest of those and everything flushed out on my video, which is at tony martignetti dot com. And that is Tony’s take do now. Whole self to work. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 NTC. This is our final interview for the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. We’re coming to you from Portland, Oregon, in the convention center. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising. Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me are Raja Agarwal, who is president and lead strategist at Provoke and Vinny’s Done director of equity. Also at provoke. Welcome. Welcome, brash. Welcome beneath. Thank you for having us. You could say hello, Raj. Even though Yankee Alright, we’re focusing on Denise. I’ll explain in a minute there. Session topic is beyond policy. How bringing one’s whole self to work on Dr Meaningful Change. Denise has to leave in literally, like, three minutes or something. So talk to her for a couple minutes and then Raj and I will I will do the vast majority of the bulk of it. He’s director of Equity. What is that position entail at provoc? What doesn’t entail Your boss is sitting here. You’re not well. Yeah, I know you’re not the president or lead strategy. Not yet or those things to s O. Director of Equity. I spend a lot of time thinking about how we can bring equity loans to the work that we do, whether it is co-branding and communications project or a Web identity on development projects. So it covers everything from thinking about who we have in the room breaking down traditional structures of leadership and decision making all the way. Thio, how we engage with audiences for our work. Okay, Is that a new position? It is. I made it out. You did? You had been there and then made it. Had I came there. I’ve been there for about three and 1/2 years. And I was ah, Brandley lead for a while and started Thio. Think about parts of my process that were non negotiable. Related to equity and land in a position. You only have a couple minutes, so we’re gonna go right in based on your session description. Um, I’m gonna ask a question that the description asks What does it mean for marginalized folks? Thio interact with the notion bringing one’s whole self to work? Yeah, it, um it means a lot of things. I think that for us, the reason we have the session, and the reason why folks engage in that session is there’s not an easy answer. And I think the important part is asking the question. We’ve seen a trend toward promoting the idea of bringing your whole self toe work without thinking about how that affects folks differently coming from different spaces. What does it mean to be a culture fit? Which is a word we hear get a phrase we hear get used a lot around whether or not someone’s a good fit for a company. So it gets nuance and really complicated when you think about folks coming from different experiences, different backgrounds and what that means for folks. So we wanted to open up space for people to share what it’s meant for them to bring their whole Selves to works, times when it’s been great and times when it’s been not so great not to give answers. But Thio elevate lessons that folks can share among their staff so they can figure out the best way is folks can bring the parts of theirselves that feel good to work. Yeah, that’s that last part that parts of themselves that feel good parts of themselves that feel safe. Exactly. White men could bring their whole Selves conveniently, and most other people are. Maybe all of the people cannot don’t have that luxury. Exactly. Exactly. And so what does it look like to create work places where there are spaces? Maybe it’s not every space, but what does it look like to create spaces where marginalize folks can come together on dhe and bring more of themselves on? What does it look like to create safer spaces for folks to get? You need a lean into bringing more and more of themselves to create better work and better work environments. I saw intent has a deep commitment to this. They have a space that is safe, and that is only for people of color. Absolutely white men and women stay out. Yes, we’re actually copans irritating that space way are so the racial affinity space it’s called. I know it exists. I didn’t know what’s going okay, which I admire it intern at NTC. I should say, um so So what does it mean? Way asked that we have a couple questions. What does it mean? What does it feel? What does it mean? to bring only the part of you. Let’s go. What’s the implication to an organization when your people you’re people of color, feel that feel safe, only bringing part of their Selves to your work? What is that? How does that hurt your work? Whether it’s, uh, emotional bottom line, you know you’re the you’re the director of equity e-giving. Give some insight. Yeah, not answers. Absolutely. I think it can create a lot of problems. One is with retention. So when you focus your efforts on diversity hiring and you get some really great people of color in your organization, if you aren’t thinking about how to keep them safe on and productive and happy and their workplaces, you’ll lose them. So they say, a lot of folks in diversity hiring push for the hiring and not for creating systems and operational izing practices that benefit staff of color as well. A cz white majority nastad. To me, that just sounds like tokenism. Absolutely well, hyre folks of color, but not give them power, not give them equity any decision e-giving voice or give them voice and not listen to it, not voice exactly. And so it creates that creates ah pipeline of folks coming in and falling right out and then the nonprofit sector. There’s actually a really great report called Reese Toe Lead a minute talks about 4000 person respondent and it talks about the cycle of people of color in organisations and how not prioritizing them in discussions creates that cycle of hiring and then folks falling out of the moving into for-profit sectors. So it’s really hurting our sector as a whole. Um, do you know where that reporters recently? Yes, it’s raised to lead on and it is by I can’t remember after donorsearch rates for the Yeah, the Google race deleted the first reports that yeah, lights have just gone out in 1990 sea. But not probably xero perseveres way continue here. It’s nice and damn, there’s no difference to me. Yeah, it’s softened things lead line even have our own lady so we could go black. We’re persevering. I’m getting 25 minutes of isn’t it? Kills us. I got a show to put on the show must go on lining in all its 1 15 That’s fine over. Niece needs to know. Okay, well, you you’re conscious of your time. Yeah, I should probably gotta go. I can answer another good conversation. I mean, it’s up to you. If you want to leave, it’s your life. Yeah, I actually have to leave because we’re having the follow-up session for the racial affinities. So give us. Well, stick with the original question. Uh, some more insight into what does non-profits clearly turn over if you’re not, If you’re not deep, it’s not a core values, diversity, equity inclusion, not a core value. And you’re not acting on it. Yes, it’ll just be a turnover cycle. You might as well not even bother. It’ll actually be counterproductive people of color, but well, then feel marginalized and speak badly about you for the rest of their lives. You might as well not even bother. Exactly. And it’s expensive. It is. Well, if you have to guess financial bottom line, it is expensive. Share another U. S. So there is another report I’ll share by FSG about the case for racial. The business case for racial equity on that report highlights a lot of the re reasons why, particularly businesses on other organizations that generate income that service the population that is in America should be prioritizing racial equity. And that’s because the population is growing larger than any other population. So for actually thinking about the people that were serving and the people that we our in service to that people will be majority in 2020. Exactly. Exactly. So to understand that reality. And we have to be thinking about how those folks are senator and conversations how are building policies and practices with them at the heart of the creation of those practices. Because you’re gonna be you’re gonna be left behind. Exactly. You know, it’s not 1955 anymore. Exactly. 2025 is coming. And you better realize that the whites are gonna be in the minority. Exactly. We cease to exist as a business organization. If you weren’t having those conversations now, Yeah, now is the time. It’s over time going by now. All right. Uh, I’m not I’m not rushing. You are. Okay. I shouldn’t say one more question. So I don’t want to keep your either. Yeah, I’m gonna head up. But I am really grateful for you all making the time for me and letting you head over to hold this race. Racial affinity space. Yes. You’re welcome. Thank you so much. Lebanese. Okay. Denise has departed the scent. Now we’re left with that. We got the residual We got the individual. You know that confused because he was on last year. Absolute Raj Raj. So why did you decide to invest off? Well, is Vanessa full time employees? Absolutely. Why did you decide to vest a full time employment slot and the money and the benefits that go along with that too? Ah, position called director of Equity. You know, my belief is that there’s nothing more. There’s no greater work that we could be doing in this world and helping to dismantle structural racism. But I also say that with hopefully some humility and self awareness that our company has a lot to do internally to make sure that we embody those values as well as helping. Now, a lot of organizations. Now it is helping to understand walking with them on the racial equity journey. So we found a lot of foundations, a lot of non-profits, um, organizations like in 10 that are naming racial equity and holding it close as a core value. And what does it mean to create spaces like the racial affinity space where it’s only for people of color. What does it mean, if your foundation that says that you understand that the reason that um, the issues exists within your community or with your grantees is all based on systemic racism and therefore will name that and then re orient or practices are giving the everything around understanding racial equity as the systemic reason for why the world is the way that it is? And so working with those organizations in that way has just been, um, just It’s just It’s really enlightening for me as I’m on my own path around understanding race and its impact on my life and others. But it’s also being at the helping to address the source issue. I’ve been working in the non-profit Arena for 20 years, worked with over 450 organizations, and I can’t tell you the number of organizations that actually don’t believe in their own theory of change or actually believe that what they’re trying to accomplish will ever actually happen. And so when you get to route, folks that are actually able to say we’re going to dismantle structural racism through our programs and through our e-giving. That’s really powerful because they’re saying that they don’t want the problem to exist anymore. I want I want every single person and non-profit to be out of a job, you know, because they Dave address what they write. Otherwise, what’s the point? You know, one time work-life Richard Branson’s Ah, Carbon War room. And they were like, we’re gonna be out of business in five years and my jaw dropped to the ground. It was the first time that a real well successful business person was like, I’m going to get into this and I’m gonna get it done now. They haven’t gotten it done yet because their work was around climate change and we obviously have a big issue. But who? Who goes into an issue saying that we’re gonna get five years out of business time for our last break Turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories, get media attention on those stories and build support for your work, media relations, content, marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. They’re at turn hyphen to DOT ceo. We’ve got butt loads more time for whole self to work. Let’s give a shout out to provoke because I want. I want people to know that it’s not a it’s not a, uh it’s not a d. I consulting agencies don’t talk about what you do. It provoked. Yeah, we d’oh what we called outcome driven, designed by the people for the people. So we do branding, marketing, technology, messaging, run campaigns. But if you were to say the two areas that we focused most on our working with organizations to dismantle structural racism and helping to end major diseases, and so we’ve really brought a human-centered design approach to all of our work. So Denise, really, she explained how that how we go about approaching our work with an equity lens, and so that means including all the stakeholders are gonna be impacted or benefit from the work that we’re doing in the creation process from inception to delivery on, and so that process often takes longer. But the fact is that at the end of the day, you actually produce campaigns messaging branding that is a lot more resonant with your audience than something that you would attempt to do as maybe consultant who thinks that they know everything or an organization who thinks that they might know everything about the people that they’re working with in the racial affinity space. Can you can you share some of the stuff that you were hearing? They’re so common, common themes in aggregate. I don’t know if I can let me let me try, because I’m not. I don’t wanna be representative of the fact that there were so many voices with so many different opinions. But one thing that does come up is that, you know, we live in a very white world, and often people that are white have an opportunity to be able to express themselves. However they want to the, uh just stop. Roger Second, You don’t know that the not only the lights go out. It’s not black with dim, but the non-profit technology conference is being taken down around us. I don’t give a shit. Well, I still don’t care. Non-profit video perseveres. I just wanted That’s the noise that you hear way asked ActBlue our partners here to keep up their backdrop so that let 1/3 of our background wouldn’t disappear while while we’re shooting video on, Dave kindly agreed. But all around us, uh, ntcdinosaur Ming down 1990 seats coming to an end, It doesn’t matter. We’re continuing. But I just want to let you know that’s the noisy here, both on both the video and and the podcast. Forgive my interruption. So to answer the phone, answer the question like this. I can’t be representative. Everybody that was in there. But overall, like often, people that are white are able to express themselves about what they’re seeing and experiencing in the world in any situation. And often there aren’t safe places for people of color to be ableto have those conversations and understand what it means to be an most likely predominantly white organizations. Um, and what they’re seeing around d I or what they’re seeing around. So a lot of the issues that beneath already mentioned and how to be able to talk about that with other people of color so that their solidarity there is an opportunity to be able to address those issues together versus feeling there alone. Often a lot of people of color, often one of the you know, the minority within their organization, and they’re often looked on to help explain issues around equity or racism. And they often have to do the emotional label labor of sharing with other people that are white, um, about what it means to be a person of color, and so that becomes really taxing. And so what does it mean when you don’t have other people that you can relate to or, you know, that often also dealing with a lot of white guilt, A lot of things air coming up nowadays in a way that has never happened before, especially in the age of Trump, where people are people are. People are becoming awake to what’s been going on for a long time, and there’s a lot of processing that happens as people realize that they’re a part of the system that created a systemic inequities in the first place. Yeah, there’s there’s There’s a big awakening buy-in wait for among white folks of what everybody else has been suffering for decades, generation, hundreds and thousands of years. Okay, now it’s well, that’s generation. That’s a lot of, you know, like I agree. So now it’s on the surface and conversations of being had we had our non-profit metoo we had our first d I conversation with you last year talking about really basically same subject. Can you bring your whole self to work? I think that was basically the topic that was the same topic. And it was really nice for intent to invite us to do that again this year when we spoke to some people, you know, this is an evolving conversation. Um, and it’s, you know, it’s not gonna be called a quote solved. It’s not a C R M or a technical or e mails, check bark. And also, it’s really nice for intend to be able to be like, Hey, we’re not gonna only talk about technology. But we’re gonna talk about this whole last week of the fact that you are a person not just performing a specific function at your organization. And also another thing that comes up is people feel like they’re in a progressive space. So therefore they would expect that people would understand, Um, but the fact is that there is a variation variants of what people people’s comprehension of the issue on. That’s just that’s normal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes startling how shallow the understanding is or even the unwillingness to to grapple with the issue, just ignoring it. Okay, well, it’s hard. We’re working. We’re working. It is hard. It is hard. But that doesn’t mean it’s insurmountable. But that doesn’t mean you should ignore it, because it’s hard. All right. Let’s, uh let’s talk a little about some strategies you have from your description. Strategies to dismantle barriers and encourage authenticity, huh? Focus on some ideas you have. Non-profits can start a conversation around. Maybe they’re immediately execute herbal if the organization is willing. What? What, What? What? Some advice. Yeah. Yeah, Well, one thing is, you know, I’m the founder of the company, and we have wonderful people at our company. And, uh, I think it’s important for me to model the best that I can to bring my whole self to work. But I also have made mistakes in doing that. Being the head of the company, I yield a certain amount of power that other people don’t. So I’ve learned about, I’ve learned, and I’m still learning about what’s appropriate versus what isn’t. Um, you know, there’s other aspects, you know, not just beyond race, but it’s also about age. And, um you know, and sexual identity and all the other you know, isms that are out there. So, um, I think dialogue is the most one of the most important things that we can. D’oh there one of the things that, as faras specifically around race provoke, worked away. The group called the Government Alliance for Race and Equity and Race forward for a two and 1/2 year campaign to help dismantle structural racism in five cities around the country. And from that we develop the campaign called Racial Equity here and over almost 600 organizations, non non-profits businesses, cities, educational, academic institutions have taken a pledge to make a public commitment towards racial equity. And because everybody wants to know about what do I do about that? We created some really well researched and vetted tools that are freely available to anybody if they make this commitment to understand what understanding the history of race and racism and racial equity, and also what they can do about that specific topic. So what? And so this is like a self guided tool that organizations can bring into their organs, bring into their companies and sit down in a two hour meeting and review this information together. You have to make the pledge first, and then you get access to the tools. Yet where do you go to make the play racial equity here dot or GE Racial equity here dot or Tony, I love the CIA. You take that pledge. I’m a business owner. I’m the only person in the biz. There’s a lot of businesses on our one form. You don’t mind a one person? Not at all. It’s gonna take one person at a time. Okay, that’s all I got. Um, okay, uh, better if I don’t write it down the way this racial equity here Yeah, you know, that’s where other tactics go. Are so which were not reticent to give people checklist about things because sometimes people say that they want, you know, that’s what people want, but it’s a process. It’s not what you said earlier. Tony is about, you know, putting people of color in not not doing tokenism, you know, putting them in, bring them into your organization and then making sure they’re real voice and responsibility and authority inappropriately with their level. Nobody’s saying bring them in and put them on your board. That depends. You know, one thing I’ve recently learned about that was a big learning moment for me. Is this concept of lived experience? I’m on immigrant son, and what we’ve been taught is you work really, really hard. Go to college. You work really, really hard after college. And then maybe at some point you get to this point where you get the corner office, you get a big paycheck, and then you get a pension or you get a retirement, whatever that is. You know, these are the old stories that I was brought up in. But the fact is that people are growing up with their lived experience, and that has as much, if not more value than a degree or time that they’ve spent in their actual position on. I have to tell you, this was one of the hardest concepts for metoo t talk about this last year. Job descriptions for recruiting, about use of the word professional, the additional appearance. But we also did talk about life experience and valuing that. So, as a business owner with a degree, this was hard for you. Too hard for you to understand. Yeah, absolutely. and we’ve made some changes to address that. And how’s it going? I’m have you made hires that I don’t have degrees, but have valuable life experience Way we’ve provided. Um, We’ve provided Wheatley. We’ve provided pay for people based on their lived experience lived experience. Okay, I was hesitant to share that, cause I just wasn’t sure what was appropriate. But, I mean, that’s just what we’re doing and said okay. Yeah. Thank you. Is it? Has it been long enough that you can say that? It’s You’re glad you’re glad you did it. I’m 100% God. I I I I wish I had learned about it or the leader. But it’s just, you know, my conditioning and how I grew up in this country is just, you know, didn’t it Did not compute. Okay, that’s that anymore. Strategy? Well, we have. Yeah. You want to leave people? We have, like, a minute or wave like two minutes. Sorry. As the world comes down around more strength, it is coming down. The lights are still dim. You wouldn’t recognize this as a conference anymore. I mean, I guess you would know that it’s a conference centre, but you wouldn’t see a conflict here, but they’re leaving us alone Will be such a I’ve seen crates go by a forklift to drive by. But you’re masking tape in there. You duct tape in the background doesn’t matter. You know, one thing that’s also interesting that I noticed recently is that, um, number one. I wondered about this racial affinity spaces Number one. Did people feel comfortable coming to us face like that, knowing that’s not technical in its nature, It’s more of a space for gather. And do people feel guilty about it? And also, I think that for me, I’ve been on my own journey around race since about 2015 where I was like, Oh, there was like this. I mean, I think I’ve always known it, but I never have, like, really dove into it as much as I ever have in the last few years. And I think this is happening. Not only, you know, we talked a lot about how people that are white are often thinking about this topic, and it’s coming up with a lot of stuff, but I think it’s coming up a lot more for people of color that haven’t happened had been to become so ingrained in being in white spaces and being comfortable in it, it started to give other people permission or a realization that there is something that they haven’t been addressing. Proactively. Yeah, and so the racial affinity space was Yeah, it was. I think it was more about the quality of the conversation. I used to be a party promoter. Everything used to be about numbers for me. And now it’s just about Oh, you know, how’s the conversation? And same thing within our organizations, when a leader or person says that we’re gonna create some sort of space or curriculum or put resource is behind things. Um, all of a sudden, people start to feel differently because you’re like, Oh, what? This actually matters and you’re gonna create a culture where more people will want to work with you. We’re gonna leave it there. Okay. All right. Good to see you. Good to see you too. 10 Tony martignetti non-profit radio ending their our coverage of 1990 sea as it comes down around us around me and Raj Raj. Dr Wallace, President, lead strategist at Provoke, which is P. R. O V. O C. And you’re listening to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage Ending of 1990. See all our aunties, All our 19 ntcdinosaur views brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us next week. Online Major e-giving and online adversity. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, Find it on Tony martignetti Doc, Come, We’re sponsored by Wagner C. 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