Tag Archives: Courtenay Shipley

Nonprofit Radio for August 28, 2023: Employee Benefits, For Employees


Courtenay ShipleyEmployee Benefits, For Employees

We’re examining benefits from the employee’s perspective. What does a minimum package look like? Which extras can you negotiate for? How valuable is your benefits package? Explaining it all is Courtenay Shipley, founder of Retirement Planology.



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[00:01:05.59] spk_0:
And welcome to tony-martignetti Nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host and the pod father of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of fasciolopsiasis. If you infected me with the idea that you missed this week’s show, ordinarily, our associate producer, Kate would tell us about the show this week, but this week isn’t ordinary Kate’s family, which is my family is visiting me at the beach this week. Plus my wife is here. Let’s get the martignetti and Amy to the mic to share which nonprofit is their favorite and why? That’s so, we’re gonna start with my brother Andrew. What’s your favorite nonprofit? Andrew? Well, tony, when

[00:01:56.89] spk_1:
I was 16.5 years old, I had to give some consideration to my boy scout, Eagle Scout project as I was previously working on me badges trying to get everything done. Um It was posed to me that the Saint Jude Children’s Research Hospital would be a very good cause for fundraising. So I decided to put together a biathlon in my town and we raised approximately $300 which back in 1984. And that was a pretty good amount of money and it worked out very well. So, I believe Saint Judes Children Research Hospital, uh, very good nonprofit. And, uh, donations were greatly appreciated and worked out very nicely. All right,

[00:02:02.88] spk_0:
congratulations on being an Eagle. You’re not, you’re not. Uh, no, no, we never used the, uh, we never use the past tense. You’re, you’re still an eagle scout, eagle scout for life, right? All right. And, uh, of course, uh, Boy Scouts of America, another nonprofit. All right. Next comes my sister-in-law, Nancy, Nancy. What is your favorite nonprofit? And why is that? So,

[00:02:26.01] spk_2:
tony, I actually have two. and they’re both kind of similar in, in what they do. Uh, the first one is, uh, bows and meows pet rescue. Um, and that is where we got our old dog Hank from and

[00:02:37.82] spk_0:
shout out where is bow? Wow. And meows.

[00:02:48.38] spk_2:
It’s actually in South Carolina. Oh, ok. And, um, then the other one is one love pet rescue. Um, I’m sorry, one love animal rescue. And they are out of New Jersey and that’s where we got our current dog Aspen from. So, I believe that rescuing is the way to go. Um, and, you know, you should adopt and, and, and not, uh, shop,

[00:03:03.11] spk_0:
adopt and not shop and not kill. Of course. All right. Cool. Two nonprofits. Thank you, Amy. My wife Amy. Favorite nonprofit, please.

[00:03:49.95] spk_3:
Yes. Thank you hubby. Um Mine is IC OMF dot org that stands for International Church of Music, which was founded within the last 10 months by my uncle and myself. It’s in Muncie Indiana. The mission is to provide instruments at no cost to Children who are underprivileged so that they can learn how to play music. Um It, it will also be, it is a church that we purchased and so it will be a venue for students to perform so that they can hone their performance skills, um, perform at no cost uh to themselves or their uh group. And, um, also to teach master classes. My uncle has worked in the music industry for almost 50 years and has a lot of contacts through Los Angeles and um, just, he knows a lot of good, very good musicians. And so to bring in um outstanding teachers to offer master classes at no charge

[00:04:18.93] spk_0:
as well. That’s the International Church of Music Foundation IC OMF dot org dot org. Thank you. Thank you. All right. And Kate, favorite nonprofit, please.

[00:04:47.83] spk_4:
My favorite nonprofit would have to be traveling to Dus Incorporated. Their mission is to collect um, different dance, wears dance shoes and send them off to dancers around the world who aren’t able to afford that kind of stuff. And I it would have to be my favorite because my passion is also dance. Um And I was able to actually be an ambassador for their company. And we did like different um costume collections. We’ve done bake sales and I was able to give everything that I earned and collected to Traveling Tutus. And I was able to look on their Instagram and kind of see where all that stuff really went to. So that would be my favorite.

[00:05:19.71] spk_0:
Cool. And they, they uh shared with you their impact. You saw, saw the work that was getting done. International Tutus, travel, travel, traveling Tutus. All right. Thanks everybody. Martignetti Family and uh Amy Drum Love nonprofits. Now, Kate, what’s on this week’s show?

[00:05:24.38] spk_4:
Well, tony, this week we have employee benefits for employees. We’re examining benefits from the employee’s perspective. What does a minimum package look like? Which extras can you negotiate for? How valuable is your benefits package? Explaining it all is Courtney Shipley, founder of retirement plan Technology on Tony’s sake too.

[00:05:48.82] spk_0:
National Make a Will Month continues.

[00:05:52.16] spk_4:
We’re sponsored by donor Boxx, outdated donation forms blocking your supporters, generosity, donor Boxx, fast, flexible and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit donor Boxx dot

[00:06:06.09] spk_0:
org. I still love that. Alliteration, fast, flexible, friendly fundraising forms. I’m sorry, go ahead.

[00:06:11.35] spk_4:
Here is employee benefits for employees.

[00:06:49.97] spk_0:
It’s a pleasure to welcome Courtney Shipley to nonprofit radio. She is the founder and Chief Plan Ologist of retirement plan Technology, a consulting and registered investment advisory firm for corporate sponsored and nonprofit sponsored retirement plans. She has worked with qualified retirement plans, developed strategies for third party administrators and conducted over 10,000 educational meetings. Number 10,001 is right now. Courtney is on linkedin and her company is at retirement plan technology dot com. Courtney, welcome to nonprofit radio.

[00:06:59.99] spk_5:
Thank you so much for having me. It’s a real pleasure to be here.

[00:07:37.44] spk_0:
Oh, I’m glad you are and I don’t, I don’t even mean to cut you short too. I mean, I’m saying this is 10,001, but you’ve already done over 10,000. So this could be number 11,004, 24. We don’t know, I stopped counting. You stopped counting. That’s probably a good idea. All right, but we don’t want to stop counting our benefits, our benefits. And we want to look at this from the employee perspective, I’d like folks who are employees to know uh what they could get, what, whether, what they’re getting is good or not. Um, things like that. So let’s start with what are minimum, bare bones, you know, you’re getting something but not a lot. But, but you’re getting the bare minimum type benefits package. What, what does that look like?

[00:10:48.20] spk_5:
Ok. So when you’re thinking about your benefits package, think of it in terms of your employer is providing your paycheck and then they’re providing these other benefits that in general are kind of building your f your foundation for your financial security in some way. Ok, so you have your paycheck obviously is your largest asset, the ability to be able to work, they’re providing that we know that one, the next one that you might not be thinking about is what happens if you have a health issue. Obviously that’s health insurance, right? Or if it’s really bad, you can’t go to work. Um, you’re out for an extended period of time. That’s gonna be disability insurance. What happens to your paycheck if you’re not around anymore? And somebody else depends on it. That’s where life insurance comes in. What happens if you don’t want to work forever in a day for that paycheck? Well, that’s where your retirement plan comes in. So that’s going to help you build a paycheck in the future from the money that you’re saving today and maybe your employer is contributing to. And so when you think about your, your financial security, from that perspective, that’s, that’s kind of the easy thermometer for seeing, you know, what, what’s good, what’s not good. And then everything else after that, um will fall into a different category for you. For example, maybe you are early on in your career and you know, you’re going to need to get some more education to advance. Um, and maybe those tuition type of reimbursement programs are gonna be useful for you. Maybe you live in a big city and getting to work is a pain. So there’s a, there’s a transportation stipend that you’re given or parking on site. My gosh in the Washington DC area to have parking, what a luxury, um, maybe you’re looking more towards, uh, you’ve got student loan payments and we know with, with many nonprofits, if you stay for a certain amount of time, then perhaps you, you can have your student loan, um, taken care of by the government depending on if you qualify for all of the programs. Um, so that’s another thing to be thinking about or would they pay something towards your student loan, a student loan payback program? You might be looking at like, do they have um discounts with maybe child care providers or someone that can help, you know, your, with your aging parent and, and figuring out what they need to do from a caretaker perspective and this could be also just building out further on like the health insurance piece. Is there something that’s going to help with mental wellness? Is there something that’s going to happen with financial wellness or these different types of programs? Um, and those could be formal or informal? Right? So when you’re looking at what they’re providing to you, you want to have a list of what’s important to you and then you want to also look at their list and say what on this list is relevant to me, right? Because they may have all the benefits in the world. But if it’s not something that resonates with you and you know, you’re not going to use it. Well, yay for having great benefits. But what a bummer that you, you don’t get to use all of them if

[00:11:11.48] spk_0:
you don’t have student loan debt or Children and then student

[00:11:13.39] spk_5:
loan, what I just talked about doesn’t matter,

[00:11:19.08] spk_0:
repayment assistance and child care don’t matter. Um And some places even provide child care, not just right payments, but some, some larger organizations have on-site child care.

[00:11:27.23] spk_5:
That’s usually a very large organization. Yes, for sure.

[00:11:30.15] spk_0:
Or maybe they have an arrangement somewhere. All right. Um You mentioned, you mentioned that these something could be formal or informal. What, what do you mean by in a more? Well, I think we know what, well, go ahead make the distinction. What’s what’s what, what do you distinguish between formal and informal benefits?

[00:12:25.27] spk_5:
So let’s talk about um the financial wellness piece. That’s an easy one. They may have someone that you can talk to that comes along with your retirement plan, for example, or maybe you call the plan’s record keeper to have your, your financial questions answered. Um Maybe it’s a formal program on site where they come every other month and present different topics. And um also one on one counseling, maybe uh as a third tier of that, maybe you have access to software um or budgeting software like you need a budget or something like that where you get that for free being a benefit um of being an employee there. So from a um this comes along with or occasionally we do these types of programming to something that’s more formal where it’s obvious that they are paying for a third party to provide something for you.

[00:12:38.45] spk_0:
Ok. Ok. Um You mentioned life insurance. Is that a common one? Is life insurance common?

[00:13:01.09] spk_5:
Yeah, I would say that that’s a pretty, a pretty common one either for the um for the nonprofit to sponsor to pay for like a basic benefit. Those are usually very inexpensive Um on the employer side to, to have a group life insurance program. Um, and it may not be a ton of coverage. So it may be up to $50,000 or $100,000 or something like that. And then the employee often has the ability to buy up. So if you do have other people that depend on your paycheck, um, that could be a, a really cost effective way to get extra coverage through

[00:13:16.88] spk_0:
work and depending on what level you’re working at you, you might have different degrees of death benefit. So the CEO might have a half a million dollar policy. That could be

[00:13:27.13] spk_5:
possible. That could be possible. Yeah. Mhm.

[00:13:31.89] spk_0:
Yeah. What about, um, what about vesting for these, what we, that, that’s the period you have to wait before certain benefits become active.

[00:13:42.83] spk_5:
So, um, yeah, there’s two ways. So, really, I think what you’re getting at is eligibility, right? How long somebody has to wait before they can enroll in the program, is

[00:13:52.34] spk_0:
it? Yeah.

[00:14:42.48] spk_5:
Is more like uh portability. So with uh like for your, your retirement plan, for example, they may give you an employer contribution or employer your match. And if you left right away without having been there very long, your employer contributions might not all travel with you, they might not all be yours to keep, there could be a investing schedule. So you earn ownership of it over time. Um But with eligibility, yeah, that’s, it’s all over the map. Um I’ve seen it be as soon as day one when you’re hired, I’ve seen um it be staggered. So certain benefits kick in at certain times like your health insurance starts first, but maybe your retirement isn’t until you’ve been there for one year. Um I’m seeing more and more employers trying to make that easier from an administrative burden and also for employees who just want to know how much is going to be missing from their check right by the time they put their own contributions in. So I’m seeing that come down as far as the amount of time it takes to be eligible for these types of programs and also less of the staggering like, well, you get the health insurance this month, you get the retirement this month, you get the life insurance this month, that sort of thing.

[00:15:03.38] spk_0:
Uh Is it fair to include a remote work among benefits? I mean, it’s not a formal package like you uh uh uh a nonprofit would hire uh an insurance company to provide life insurance. But, right. Isn’t that fair? Is, is that a fair conversation to have when you’re talking about uh benefits?

[00:15:57.42] spk_5:
Absolutely. Absolutely. We’re seeing, um, employees, you know, asking for it. Um I would, it’s going to depend on the employer and the flexibility and the amount of work and the type of work that, that you’re doing for them. But it’s always good to ask like, where does this need to take place? But there’s also the other component of how much does your team need you to be around? And how do you use the facetime strategically within your organization to help people’s careers grow over time because a lot of times when we’re talking to an employee, um it’s usually about finances and they’re disgruntled. A lot of times it doesn’t have anything to do with their compensation as much as just the work environment or not feeling like they have a career path. And so being able to attract and retain the talent that you want. It, benefits are really important. But also kind of that, that how we do work now after coming out of COVID. That’s a, that’s a really big question to answer. How does work flow work, how does work get done? How do people uh get to move up in their career at, at your organization?

[00:16:37.80] spk_0:
And I understand your point, you know, in terms of the remote work, uh it it, it varies. But are, are you seeing trends or are, are you, are you seeing a willingness to allow a couple of days a week out of an office but maybe not full time or like, where are you seeing employers settling around the, the virtual work

[00:16:45.54] spk_5:
question that? Well, it’s still kind of all over the place, but I would say that there’s a, there’s a much higher willingness to, I guess if I have to choose a trend, it would be two days, offsite, three days on or vice versa, at least coming into the office twice a week. Yeah, those are, those are probably the most common that we’re seeing now.

[00:17:06.63] spk_0:
Ok. So if you’re asking for more than that, you know, you might not be aware that you might be outside the, outside the norm and uh you may not get it. Ok? Ok.

[00:17:17.68] spk_5:
At this point in time, I think we, you know, we’ll see next year’s trend will be different, probably

[00:17:43.07] spk_0:
fair enough. Absolutely. August of 2023. And, and uh in terms of negotiating what, well, what, what are, what are employers spending on average on benefits in terms of like percentage of salary? Like if, if you say, uh I used to hear, you know, an employer adds 30% for benefits, uh 30% of the comp the, the, the direct cash compensation. They, they’re, they should expect to add another 30% per employee for this bundle that you talked about, is that still, is that still roughly fair that your employer is spending about another third of your, your, your salary on benefits or is that at a date?

[00:18:07.13] spk_5:
No, I think that’s probably pretty close. That’s a great estimate. Anyway, if you have, um, employers who are, who are trying to make those plans, that’s a really good number to aim for. Um, and yes, and you know, there with nonprofits, everybody’s trying to stay under that 20% number for the financial reporting and whatnot for, um, for overhead expenses. And so, um, that also comes into play too with how, how nonprofits wanna divide the, the, the pie out for their overhead.

[00:19:05.62] spk_0:
Uh II I have a lot of trouble with that overhead. You know, those overhead restrictions, people are not overhead, people are arguably your most valuable critical uh required resource that’s not overhead. Like, like that’s why we have benefits. Yeah, not overhead like uh the hardware on the doors, you know, that’s overhead. Well, we got to replace a latch on the door that’s overhead. Uh We’re not, we’re not latches and door knobs and all right. Uh So I, I don’t, but I know 30

[00:19:37.16] spk_5:
percent number is a pretty good one to aim for another. Yeah, another thing that, um, where we see employers fall short sometimes and, and um, employees should take this into consideration is uh a total total compensation statement because a lot of times employers are not necessarily rolling back the curtain on how much these, these types of programs cost. And so it’s important for an employee to know how much extra is being spent like what’s what’s really in their compensation package, you know, these are value benefits and they are worth money. Um So when they’re, when you’re comparing um maybe one job offer against another having that total compensation statement or just even an estimate gives you more information about, you know, the value of your benefits package.

[00:19:55.93] spk_0:
Yeah, that’s fair. Right. You wanna, you, you wanna know the total, I mean, it’s, it’s certainly part of total compensation. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s as much as uh an additional third. So,

[00:20:07.21] spk_5:
but back to my original comment about how um it’s important to have in your mind like what, what types of benefits are important to you, the other part of that is using them because if it uh if you say that an employer matching contribution is important in your 401k or 403 B plan and then you don’t contribute enough to get that match. That’s money that you are, that’s compensation. You are literally leaving on the table.

[00:21:18.00] spk_0:
Yeah, that’s such a big mistake. Yeah, leaving money on the table. But what, what’s, what’s sort of typical now in terms of matching back when I, back in the dark days of my career when I was, when I was a uh an employee, I would, I can’t be an employee anymore. I would be a terrible employee for anybody. But back then I, I used to have this very generous one at a university where I think if we, if we contributed 5% the university contributed seven or 7.5% of my salary. So of course, I put the five in because you want the max, right? You want, I mean, there’s another 7.5% of your salary approaching 10% added to your salary each year by your employer. So, so what, what that, that was uh those are the early 22 thousands. Yeah, those were late 19 9, 19 nineties and early, very early two thousands. So what’s more typical now in terms of AAA match in a retirement plan?

[00:21:26.78] spk_5:
Well, let’s start with how common a match or um a what we call non elective. So thank you for breathing. Here’s money in your retirement plan. Um That is very common nowadays. So if uh

[00:21:39.10] spk_0:
what, what, what’s very common non

[00:21:55.27] spk_5:
or a nonelected or a match. A nonelected is where you’re just receiving the they, they’re just giving you 3% into your retirement account or 5% or something like that. So what you described a minute ago was having to put something in to get something. So you see it both ways and it’s very popular for the employer to be making a contribution. So that’s, that’s one thing to consider is like is this a good benefits package? If you’re getting a an employer contribution in your retirement plan, that is a step in the right direction to say yes, these benefits are, are decent.

[00:22:24.02] spk_0:
Ok. And so while we’re on that right, I’m gonna dig a little deeper on that. We’ll come back to the, to the broader point. But what’s a, what’s a sort of a typical nonelected contributions like 1% to 3? What, what, what, what are you seeing?

[00:23:00.45] spk_5:
Yeah. So um I actually pulled this data just in case from the plan sponsor um defined contribution survey from 2021. Um Both 2021 2022. So what’s most common for, for the, on the smaller side of the nonprofit um Endowment Foundation group is um somewhere around 15% usually gives less than 3% on a nonelected um The next most common, the next most common one is um to give, it looks like between three and 6%

[00:23:09.55] spk_0:
and what percentage of what percentage of the market is giving between three and

[00:23:26.28] spk_5:
six. So for a nonelected contribution, it is about, hold on here. So 30% are giving exactly three in the smaller space and then the 3 to 5 is 15 to, to 25% depending on what size. So those are the most common. Once you get above that 5 to 7% mark, it just drops off completely. So

[00:23:49.57] spk_0:
it sounds like it sounds like roughly 50% are giving between three and 6%. Is that

[00:23:53.44] spk_5:
right? Yeah, we’ll call it in that range three

[00:24:09.91] spk_0:
to six or is it 3 to 5? 3 to 6? Yeah. Ok. So roughly 50% are giving 3 to 6%. All right. So if you’re in the 3 to 6% non, that’s a nice, that’s a nice group. You get, even at 3% you get an additional 3% added to your salary. So. Ok. Ok. So now let’s go back. All right, I just wanted to drill down on what, what’s, what, what it’s looking like. So now your bigger point was uh something that I don’t remember now because I made you digress. Uh We start, you, we uh you have a lackluster host. I, I promised we’d go back but we will. So

[00:24:34.74] spk_5:
well, if you want to know what the most common matching contribution is,

[00:24:38.91] spk_0:
you drill down on the nonelected. Thank you. I knew one of the number. Ok. So what does, what does those numbers look

[00:24:58.86] spk_5:
like? So matching is, is more popular, more, more organizations offer a match than they do the nonelected. So, um, in the matching space, you’d see that 4% is the most common. OK. 4% is the most common. And then the next most common thing after that would be 6%. So imagine how much,

[00:25:05.92] spk_0:
how much do you have to contribute to get the, is it one for one typically it’s probably

[00:25:11.16] spk_5:
one for one. Yeah.

[00:25:12.76] spk_0:
Ok. So you give 4% you contribute 4%. They contribute another four.

[00:25:18.78] spk_5:
Yeah. Well, if you give one, they match you one all the way up to 4%. If you’re putting four. Yeah, you get the full match. So, yeah,

[00:25:25.83] spk_0:
I, I think it’s smart to do the, the four because your, your employer will give you the, uh, the max, whatever your max happens to be, if they will match it, you know, if they’ll go to six, look, you’re, you’re getting more than a 5% increase in compensation. It’s not direct cash compensation. It’s in your, it’s in your retirement plan, but they’re still taking money out of their pocket and putting it into yours,

[00:26:04.47] spk_5:
retirement is a long way away. Um, most of the time you’re gonna need to save between 10 to 15% is what we always recommend because that usually gets most people mathematically on track for retirement. So if you’re coming in and you’re putting in four and they’re putting in four, you’re almost there. You know, so it’s getting you, it’s nudging you the right direction to get to. You’re about halfway. Mhm. Yep.

[00:26:36.90] spk_0:
Yep. Ok. So I want folks to know, you know, if their, if their benefits are, are crummy, if they suck, I want people to know that they, you know, maybe can get negotiate for more. I mean, if you’re, you know, if you’re at if you’re at a nonprofit and you’re looking for a raise and your employer says no raise is not. We don’t have the cash. Well, what about the benefits? Can we tinker with the benefits? A little? You, I’m, I’m the max is now for. Well, they, they may have machinations to go through, right. Uh, their, their plan may, their plan may not allow an increase, but there are other benefits. You know, we’re not talking only about retirement. You could start negotiating around your health care policy, uh health care plan or your disability or the life insurance or the transportation stipend or the tuition reimbursement or the parking or the student loan debt, the debt repayment. So, you know, you can, if your employer says no, no raise this year, well, can you re tinker with the benefits a bit? Right.

[00:27:07.75] spk_5:
Did you just ask for your birthday off? Right. Exactly.

[00:27:08.90] spk_0:
We didn’t even talk about days off. We didn’t even, we didn’t talk about days off. Thank you. That’s a great one. What, what are standard days off? What should we be getting? What does it look like

[00:27:47.88] spk_5:
that’s all over the place. Unfortunately, I don’t have really good statistics on all of that, but I would say that, um, you know, the longer that you’ve been in an organization, the more vacation days you typically earn, that’s a, that’s a trend that we see. Um walking in, uh you know, having no longevity with the company, you’re going to get far less and there we are seeing a trend towards just days off versus having to specify. Is this a sick day? Is it a vacation day? So, giving a little bit more flexibility about the combination there, um There’s also the ability to accrue hours as your longevity increases with the um so accruing, you know, eight hours over this period of time, you know, if you worked this long, you get this many vacation days, that sort of

[00:28:15.93] spk_0:
thing. There’s also the carryover. What, what are you allowed to carry over from year to year versus hopefully you’re not losing vacation time or, or doing, please, please don’t lose, I mean, it’s paid time off. Yeah. And so that’s another that and since you, you said the birthday, that, that, that’s right in line with what I was thinking in terms of negotiating. All right, I can’t get a raise. Can I get an extra week off next year? That’s a week of unpaid time. I mean, paid time that you get to take off that has value, that’s valuable. You’re lessing, you’re working one week less for the same amount of money because the, the employer said no raises for next year. So can you negotiate around time off?

[00:29:05.87] spk_5:
One of our very creative clients decided that you mentioned the, the time off that expires and so they allowed people to instead who are going to lose it, be able to take that turn it into cash and put it towards their student loans. So that was a, a creative way that they, you know, they help them out that way. Now there are some tax implications, there’s some tax implications, but overall, like this is a nice, this, that was a nice gesture for sure. Like, don’t, don’t lose everything, don’t lose these days. Get some cash value for it.

[00:29:43.82] spk_0:
Right. So that, that was income, I guess they had to report that they had to report that. Correct. That transfer as income. All right. All right. So be, but, but days off, if you can get an extra week off next year, that’s not, you don’t have to report, that’s not a taxable event, an extra week off, but you’re working one week less to get the same amount of money. So you’re that consider that a raise, right? It is a, it’s a raise, work days for the same amount of money I got a raise. So, you know, be creative about your negotiating, don’t just accept, ok, no raises next year. Fine.

[00:30:06.42] spk_5:
But if you, if you’re talking about leadership too, um a lot, we’ve, we’ve had some of our clients that are trying to attract new executives in either CEO CFO hr uh C hr O, that sort of thing. Um There is another benefit we

[00:30:11.51] spk_0:
have, we have Jargon Jail on nonprofit radio, the Jargon Jail. C hr O what the heck is

[00:30:17.36] spk_5:
that Chief Human resources officer.

[00:30:19.79] spk_0:
All right. All right. Well, I bet I’m not the only one. All right. Cro, all right, you’re out of

[00:31:19.93] spk_5:
jail, you’re out of jail. Thank you. Thank you so much. Um, so, uh, it, when, when you’re trying to attract that talent, um, and those people have, there’s not as many of them and they’re hard to find and, you know, they’re hard to retain. And so that’s where we’ve seen some pretty creative negotiation as well. I don’t know who’s listening and if they’re in that type of leadership role, but um being able to, to negotiate, well, help me pay off my graduate school loans. You know, I, if I stay around in three years, then I get $10,000 towards that loan or if, um uh you know, I want to save more for my retirement, I’m trying to play catch up because I’ve had a long career, but I haven’t been as good a saver as I should have been. I’d really like to have a 4 57 B plan. Um, and, and be able to have extra money going towards my retirement. Now, the 4 57 B is a really important non-profit benefit because they’re the ones that get to have it. Uh It can only cover about 10 to 15% of the total population of the employees that are there, but it’s basically a way to save more for retirement. So, uh the funds are at risk if the nonprofit does go out of business to be subject to creditors. But that’s, you know, if you’re the one who’s helping run it, make sure that doesn’t happen. Right. Um,

[00:31:43.92] spk_0:
we’re on the employee side. So the A 4 57 B, yeah, this is not a very common benefit or it is

[00:31:47.23] spk_5:
not all the time. No, it seems to be forgotten by many nonprofits. So, if you are an employee who’s walking into a situation where you have access to one of those, that’s a pretty forward thinking organization.

[00:32:31.39] spk_4:
It’s time for a break. Donor box quote, I regularly experience how donor boxes easy setup and ultra swift pay, fast checkout deliver what we need. Donor box allows us to focus on why we do this, our clients and their needs. End quote. That’s from Jenny N A board member and recurring donor at Organic Soup Kitchen in Santa Barbara, California donor box helping you help others. Donor Boxx dot org. It’s time for Tony’s take two.

[00:34:21.37] spk_0:
Thank you, Kate. It’s still August and that means it’s still National Make A Will Month. Yes, every August National Make A Will month and I use this month to remind nonprofits that wills charitable bequests same thing. They mean the exact same thing, gifts and wills charitable bequests, that’s the place to start your planned giving. Always launch with the simplest gift, the most popular gift, gifts in Wills. And I’ve been posting on linkedin all month by the end of the month, I’ll have all of my 18 reasons why wills are the re wills are the place to launch your planned giving. Like the one that says that uh it’s by far the most popular gift as I already mentioned and how easy it is for your donors, how easy it is for your staff that it helps you build endowment, it ensures your sustainability. So there’s I think five or six ideas right off the top of my head, the full 18 are on linkedin. They will all be there by the end of next week and for a lot of you listening weeks after. If you go to my linkedin, you’ll see all the 18 reasons why wills are the place to start your planned giving fundraising. I hope you are enjoying the the mass celebration around National Make A Will Month. I I we can almost, it can’t contain the excitement around National Make A Will month for those of us who are celebrating the holiday. That is Tony’s take two Kate.

[00:34:24.28] spk_4:
We’ve got but loads more time. Let’s get back to employee benefits for employees with Courtney Shipley.

[00:34:34.82] spk_0:
What kinds of details? I mean, we’ve talked some about the details like uh vesting versus um what was the uh eligibility? Thank you. Yeah. So what other, what other like details should we be drilling down about? I mean, so you know, we talked about retirement planning a good bit. But what other detail type things are, are like devils in the details. We should, we should we be thinking about,

[00:35:43.60] spk_5:
I think you should be thinking about ease of use and getting help. I think those are two important parts. So uh when you get a whole bunch of benefits that are thrown at you, do you really want to sit there all day and read? No, you want it, you want it to come with a person or you want it to come with at least a chat bot or something to help answer questions. Everybody’s different. They’re going to use benefits slightly differently. And so it’s important for you when you’re choosing between your different health care packages or um, your different uh offerings to be able to have somebody that you can, you can ask. So I think that that’s a very important thing to be looking for is who’s gonna help me make these decisions back in the day. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Support. Yeah, that is support. Yeah. So I think support is very

[00:35:46.50] spk_0:
important. And are you, are you meaning support in the nonprofit or support from the provider that offers the life insurance or the disability, et cetera? I

[00:35:56.47] spk_5:
would say it could come from either way but probably more commonly from the provider

[00:36:01.57] spk_0:
from the provider.

[00:36:03.87] spk_5:
But hopefully, then hopefully when the nonprofit has chosen these types of benefits, they’ve, they’ve figured out a way to get help to their employees. That’s a big cultural difference. I think that if you are looking at your benefits package, your compensation package, the offer that’s coming to you and you see that they have the ability for you to talk to people to help you make decisions. That’s gonna tell you a lot about their culture right there that they care about you as an employee.

[00:36:31.10] spk_0:
So I think that’s very important and the other was uh ease of use,

[00:37:12.15] spk_5:
ease of use. So how, how do they, how do they put all these disparate systems together? Your benefits package is not going to be provided by the same provider? Do you have a website where all of the documents are housed? Do you have videos on, on one page? Is there portal? What, what makes your life easier? Do you have to go to six different phone numbers if you need to get help or you need to submit a claim or you need a, you have a question answered about something. So how has, how has the nonprofit put this together to make it easy for you to access it? That counts for something

[00:37:27.83] spk_0:
for sure. What about other uh other benefits that uh you might be able to negotiate for things we haven’t talked about uh like little special things that you’ve seen that folks have, folks might be able, like I said, a able to, to weed the uh their nonprofit or their potential employer. You know, one of two situations might be at a nonprofit or it might be weighing offers now or, or in the future, uh weighing competing offers. What, what are the things have you seen folks? I don’t, I hesitate to say, get away with, but, you know, get, get access to that, uh might not have been offered, uh, you know, in the first round.

[00:39:03.40] spk_5:
So the, um, if, if they have the ability to, to ask for um, a health savings account, there’s only certain types of health insurance policies that go with it. The, the HS A eligible, um, programs, it used to be called high deductible. But that’s kind of a misnomer. You start to do the cost analysis, but the thought is that you can put money aside into the HS A, that money can stick with you throughout your time. You can continue to fund it. You can use it to pay your health care expenses. You can keep it rolling until you get to retirement and use it. Then it’s a triple tax free benefit. So it’s tax free going in. You don’t, you know, the, it comes out pre-tax from your check, it sits in there, it can grow, it can be invested, that’s all tax deferred or never to be taxed. If you take it out for health care reasons, it comes out tax free. So that’s an awesome benefit. If they haven’t considered it, you could try it. You know, and you’re saying I want more benefits that’s one of the ways that you might be able to negotiate maybe after you’re already employed there or something to be looking for. So that’s, that’s a nice, a really nice benefit. If you want to use it, it’s a great option. Um, and you don’t see that everywhere.

[00:39:08.26] spk_0:
That’s the HS A, the health savings account. Is that the same as flex, flex spending?

[00:39:17.78] spk_5:
No flex spending is, um, a really nice benefit. But, um, that’s the use it or lose it. So you have to use it within the calendar year on certain types of expenses. The HS A, you never lose it. You just, you can use it to pay for health care expenses. Um, and there’s a list of them on the IRS website that it is always being updated. Um, but you just keep rolling it forward so you can accumulate a pretty darn good balance in

[00:39:36.66] spk_0:
there and the flex spending you have to use within the year. Yes. Pardon me?

[00:39:43.36] spk_5:
I said that’s also a nice benefit to have the FS A. Yeah.

[00:39:46.97] spk_0:
Um, it just, what else?

[00:39:49.08] spk_5:
Uh, 5 29 college savings plan.

[00:39:53.76] spk_0:
Yes. Explain that. I’ve seen those. What do, what do those look like?

[00:40:35.13] spk_5:
Sure. So that’s, um, that’s going to be for folks who have kids more, more than likely, however, it’s for education. So it really could be for anybody if you want to start saving something for going back to grad school or something like that later in life. Um The um it’s money that is set aside and it grows without any tax implications. As long as you use it for education expenses down the road, then it comes back out tax free. Um Employers technically could make a contribution to it if you um if, if there’s access to that so that could be something. Um And it’s, it’s really designed to help with school, like of some sort. So that could be private K through 12 schools. Um room and board tuition, things like that also higher education. So like I was saying before, more of the um uh undergraduate and, and um graduate degrees.

[00:40:54.08] spk_0:
So that, that can be, that can be for anybody that can be for yourself. Children could be grandchildren, nieces, nephews and you, you

[00:41:01.08] spk_5:
can change the beneficiary, you can change the beneficiary. So if you have somebody who doesn’t go to college and your family and you want to use the funds, you can just change your, the beneficiary to you. So there’s, there’s a lot of flexibility with it. It’s a nice, it’s a nice tool that can be used in, in several ways, but mainly you do pretty well if it’s for education.

[00:41:20.56] spk_0:
All right. And those are the 5 29.

[00:41:30.88] spk_5:
So having a um a payroll deducted 5 29 plan, that’s a, so it comes straight out of your check, it’s real easy. Um There’s also, uh and like I said, the employer can make a contribution to the 5 29. That would be extra special. So that could be something

[00:41:46.17] spk_0:
maybe then, you know, you got a, you have an exemplary package. Yeah, that’s not emp 5 29 plan if your employer is contributing a percent or two to it. Right. Ok. That’s that. Ok. This is what we wanna know. Do our benefits suck or they middling or are they exemplary? It’s important to know you want to know where you stand. That’s

[00:42:08.91] spk_5:
right. Um, also on the subject of education, uh, the tuition reimbursement, I think I mentioned that earlier. A lot of them will have a tuition reimbursement program. Um, you could also look at, will they pay for certificates for certain skills or conferences, um, or other types of things that help you with your career long term? Make you a more valuable professional

[00:42:19.13] spk_0:
development. Is there, is there a budget for professional development? Can I get more professional development dollars? No, there’s no raise this year. No, no raise for next year. Right. Well, how about professional development? Uh, can I get $2000 to go to a conference?

[00:42:32.92] spk_5:
Yeah, I think it’s perfect. Right. That’s a great way to

[00:42:35.85] spk_0:
use some other way. I was just thinking of conferences because people are trying to get out more now because that we can. But, uh, can I get, can I get some professional development money? Ok. It’s great. Courtney. What else? What

[00:43:01.22] spk_5:
else. Um, well, I, I want to point out that that’s kind of a win in both directions if they go and get a certificate that makes them a more valuable employee to the nonprofit. Like, that’s a win, win for everybody. Right. You’ve got more skills, they’ve got more skills that you have. Um, I think the

[00:43:02.41] spk_0:
HR O should, the C hr O should recognize that. Right. Exactly. C hr O should know,

[00:43:09.59] spk_5:
um, other student loan programs like a student loan payback program would also be extraordinary on the, on the list of benefits. So if they’re going to give you $50 a month towards your student loan or something like that, that’s a, that’s a big deal. That’s a huge deal as a matter of fact. So, um,

[00:43:24.50] spk_0:
meaning it’s kind of rare. Yes,

[00:43:52.65] spk_5:
it’s rare and it’s super helpful because if you think about just looking at how your debt works and paying off extra every month, it reduces the life of the loan. It saves you massive amounts of, of interest payments over the life of the loan. So that is a, that’s one that we really like. Now there’s mixed feelings, of course about student loans and, you know, should we should, should they be wiped out the, you know, there’s, that’s been kind of a political

[00:43:57.90] spk_0:
side to it. Yeah. Is it in because there are populations who never can’t afford college or? Yeah.

[00:44:05.14] spk_5:
But, but at the end of the day it’s an attraction and retention tool. So, I think employers should.

[00:44:20.51] spk_0:
Right. Right. Ok. Ok. Anything else we could be, uh, negotiating for if we feel our benefits are on the lackluster side or you exhausted it? If, if that’s it, you know, that’s ok.

[00:44:46.22] spk_5:
I think lunch and learns on different topics are probably another good one. Could you bring in a speaker about XYZ? That’s, that’s kind of an easy one for employers to, um, you know, if you want more knowledge, if that’s what you’re after, have somebody come in and, and, uh, speak on a certain topic or negotiate a discount for us for XYZ product. So, we’ve seen, we’ve seen that happen sometimes where, um, even if it’s just the coffee shop next door and you get 5% off or something, that’s, that’s a bit, that’s nice. Yeah, because if you think about it, I mean, most nonprofits are, are heavily involved in their local area. So, you know, can they leverage that to also provide more benefits for their employees?

[00:45:09.28] spk_0:
Ok. Ok. Excellent. Think on the local level too. All right. All right. Um, what else, what else do you want folks to know about from the, again, you know, of course, the, from the employee perspective that, uh, way, maybe ways of negotiating or what, what else, what else would you like folks to know about?

[00:46:13.01] spk_5:
Well, I think when you, when you go to negotiate it’s always important to recognize the you the benefits, the compensation, all of that is going to vary based on how large your employer is. Um the their budget, right? The different constraints that they may have um from outside where they’re located. Um So it’s important to remember that you wanna have the value conversation about how you’re a valuable employee and that’s why you’re asking for these additional benefits. I think that’s an important thing to remember. Um Because the, it’s easy to say yes to an employee who’s very valuable, right? Um It’s kind of a no-brainer.

[00:46:15.20] spk_0:
So you need to make the case, you need to make the case of, of your value, whatever, whatever value it is, you bring expertise uh experience. Um non for nonn doesn’t have to be formal education. We’re not talking about that necessarily just, you know, what, what’s the, what’s your value as an employee? Not just what do you do, but what do you bring that somebody else can’t bring?

[00:47:45.38] spk_5:
Yeah, or what, what great work have you done? That’s made things a lot easier for everybody or, or what, you know, what are you bringing to the table? Because I, when we’re, when we’re in um conversations with folks who remember that I do um corporate retirement plans. And so when we’re talking with, with people, a lot of times it’s centered around their money and I just need to make more and it’s like, well, ok, but don’t forget that they’re employing you to do a job. And so they, they, they have an easier time when your, your performance reviews are great. So that’s just something to, to keep in mind of what moves the needle, what’s important to the organization, um what fits within their culture. Um When you go, when you go to ask for things. So I think that’s, that’s important to think about. Um And also don’t, if you’re, if you’re comparing two benefits packages, we have clients that just can’t afford to do amazing things, but they do good things and the opportunity to work there is still great and the culture is great. And even though you may not make as much money in the long run, the experience that you get or the um the cause that they serve is, is worthwhile. And so I think that’s one extra level that for profit entities and for profit employees don’t have to think about as much because a lot of the nonprofits really do make a great difference and they are um they’re a different type of work environment. So that’s also something that has value to it that I don’t think we, we think about sometimes.

[00:48:39.61] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely true. Right. The benefits are just one component, 11 variable among many when you’re weighing whether you want to stay working where you are or whether you’re uh considering different options that you may have, you know, a couple of different offers, the the benefits are just one variable and certainly that the quality of the work, the culture equity issues, you know, these are all, those are all value variables as well. All right. All right. How I leave it there then you feel? Ok,

[00:48:42.90] spk_5:
I do. Do

[00:48:43.50] spk_0:
you? All right, I do. But I’m not the expert. You are

[00:48:48.41] spk_5:
fair enough

[00:48:49.39] spk_0:
expert feels good. All right, Courtney Shipley, you’ll find her on linkedin. You’ll find her company at retirement plan dot com. Courtney, thank you very much for sharing your expertise. Thanks a lot.

[00:49:02.69] spk_5:
Thank you so much for having me. I really

[00:49:04.23] spk_0:
appreciate it. My pleasure.

[00:49:14.82] spk_4:
Next week, Amy Sample Ward returns with Reflections on their Bosch fellowship in Berlin. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I

[00:49:17.63] spk_0:
beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot

[00:49:49.76] spk_4:
com. We’re sponsored by donor Boxx, outdated donation forms, blocking your supporters, generosity. Donor Boxx. Fast, flexible and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit donor Boxx dot org. Our creative producer is Claire Meyer. So it producer Kate Marett Devices and shows. So is our web guide this by Scott Stock.

[00:49:54.49] spk_0:
Thank you for that affirmation. Scottie be with us next week for nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.