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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent your aptly named host can’t be in studio today. So me, your cosa, our host for the day, sam liebowitz, the show’s line producer and this week e-giving twenty thirteen it’s a rebroadcast of this past tuesdays livestreamed release of twenty thirteen fund-raising results and the forecast for twenty fourteen from the atlas of giving rob mitchell, ceo of the atlas, delivers a ten minute press conference style announcement. Then tony hosts the discussion with him are ken berger, ceo of charity navigator marcy, a sta panic new york university faculty member, and rob mitchell live, listener love and podcast pleasantries to all. Tony will be back next week. Here is giving twenty thirteen my name’s rob mitchell i’m the ceo of atlas of giving we’re a dallas based business concerned with monitoring the velocity and trajectory of charitable giving in the united states. First, a little background about the atlas of giving we have developed technology that allows us to estimate charitable giving by each of nine sectors each of four sources and fifty states each month. The atlas also provides the only regular and reliable forecast of giving by sector source and state for each of the upcoming twelve months each month, we produce an updated report of giving activity and an updated forecast. The report is available at no charge at atlas of giving dot com new reports come out and are available after the twenty first of each month today, i’m very pleased to announce that two thousand thirteen was a fantastic record setting year for charitable giving in the us, but i’m also here to caution that the initial forecast for twenty fourteen is much more modest. For the first time in two thousand thirteen, charitable giving crossed the four hundred billion dollar mark in the us, which bolsters the u s reputation as the most filling throb picked country on the planet. In two thousand thirteen, a total of four hundred seventeen point eight billion was contributed by individuals, corporations, foundations and through bequest that this money has benefited more than one and a half million charities and churches across our nation. Now this amount represents a thirteen point, three percent increase over the more than three hundred sixty eight billion given in two thousand twelve and it also is one hundred billion dollars more than given at the height of the great recession in two thousand nine. E-giving growth, this this tremendous giving growth was fueled largely by historic gains in the stock market, the down as many of you know, was up twenty six percent, the s and p almost thirty percent, and the nasdaq was up almost forty percent in two thousand thirteen. There were other contributing factors as well, and those included an improving employment picture, a recovery and real estate values. Schnoll very low inflation, low interest rates and improving growth in gdp. Every sector that we measure experience growth. However, several sectors perform significant significantly better than the national average, most notably, human services organizations were up more than nineteen percent, environmental charities, up eighteen and a half percent, and the education sector giving to the education sector was up sixteen point two percent. All three of those sectors have a high correlation to stock values their performance does, trailing in the national results in two thousand thirteen were our largest sector, which is churches and religion. Church giving has ah heidtke high degree of correlation with employment, and it is still dealing with the effects of high unemployment and will continue to deal with those effects for at least another year. Individual organizations, apart from churches that rely on many small gifts for many small donors, are still feeling the lasting impact of high unemployment and many of their donors out of work the atlas was giving looks it also at four sources of gifts individuals, corporations, foundations and bequest. In two thousand thirteen, the highest growth came from foundation giving, which was up more than nineteen percent. We believe that this was primarily related to stock performance in each of the last two years, the trailing source of giving was corporate gifts up ten percent. Now i’d like to look ahead two thousand fourteen and talk about the initial forecast for twenty fourteen today we believe that national giving will grow at a much slower pace than two thousand thirteen, so for two thousand fourteen, our initial forecast for the twelve calendar months is that giving will grow for percent. We fully expect that human services, environmental and education sectors will perform better than the average and that church giving will grow, but about it half the pace of national giving growth, please keep in mind that conditions can and do change and that the forecast is updated each month. Also, remember that the reliability of the forecast decreases the further out we look durney. So i would encourage you if you’re interested in keeping track of the forecast to check the monthly forecast that atlas of giving dot com every month one significant affect our event like a nine eleven event or a hurricane, hurricane katrina or a superstorm sandy, we’ll have a major impact on the forecast, so it’s important to keep checking next, i’d like to make four observations about giving from two thousand thirteen individual mega gifts of one hundred million dollars or more accounted for almost one percent of the entire national giving total in two thousand thirteen second, the second observation that we have is that we’re observing that coverage and discussion of the affordable care act. Obama care appears to be having a dampening effect on health e-giving and we are hearing anecdotal stories of people citing obama care as the reason that they’re curtailing their health e-giving ring, we will continue to monitor and report on this observation throughout two thousand fourteen third, we see that there may be a correlation between media coverage and charitable giving response in two thousand thirteen we most noted that give we most noted this in giving to environmental organizations and human needs organizations both have been particularly prominent in news reports and coverage over the last couple of years or since the recession forthe observation is that the hyre payroll taxes that began in two thousand thirteen did not appear to have any significant impact on giving. Now i’d like to talk about four trends that we’ve noted the first, and possibly the most important is that giving two churches is growing at less than half the rate of the fastest growing sectors. Now this is due to two two factors one is is a demographic church attendance and membership is continuing to decline. That’s that’s one reason the second reason is that most churches rely heavily on many small gifts for many small donors and are affected hyre by high unemployment and its after effects for several years. The second trend that we’ve noted is that the growth and donors advice funds is making a significant and positive contribution to giving in the us and his fundamentally changing our charitable giving economy. Third, the popularity of making gifts online continues to grow and improve the efficiency and effectiveness of the giving economy and then lastly, how an organization raises its money and who it raises it from, hasn’t a normal and enormous excuse me impact on fund-raising results to conclude, i’d like you to remember that the atlas of e-giving monthly report is available at no charge at atlas of giving dot com the complete report with the data for today’s announcement is there now, along with the press release for this announcement, also at atlas of giving dot com, we have an inexpensive forecasting tool on the website for less than two hundred dollars, and with answers to six quick, easy questions, any charity or church can immediately get an express custom forecast of giving for your fiscal year like our national forecast. Your express custom forecast is updated monthly for each of the next twelve months. I’d like to thank you for joining us today for this announcement on before i conclude, i’d like to give special a special shout out to tom moran and terran lubin and mutual of america for providing our facilities today. So ah again, thank you for joining us. I’m going to turn it over now to tony martignetti, the host of tony martignetti non-profit radio welcome to giving twenty thirteen non-profit radio is very proud to be co hosting e-giving twenty thirteen, with the atlas of giving many thanks to mutual of america for use of their beautiful thirty fourth floor boardroom. You may see in the background some some snow that’s, our thirty fourth floor view of the coming storm, the stone that’s arrived. We’re very glad that you’re with us on the live stream. If you want to join the conversation on twitter, use the hashtag e-giving twenty thirteen and i’ll see your questions. E-giving e-giving e-giving you’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get a drink. Cubine do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our coaching and consultant services a guaranteed to lead toe, right groat for your business, call us at nine one seven eight three three four eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam lebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll with me is marshes to panic. She is new media faculty and advisor at new york university’s heimans center for philanthropy on twitter. She’s at caused global ken berger is ceo of charity navigator on twitter he is at ken’s commentary and rob mitchell you remember him on twitter, he’s at philanthropy man or it also looks to me like at philantech roman so if you want to do it at philantech roman, you could do it that way. He has a roman statue to me, it looks like it could be a century. Well, no, not a century general. It could be a roman general he’s i feel pretty pedestrian. I’m just at tony martignetti that’s that’s me on twitter. I’m going to ask rob teo to talk a little more so that we’re all starting with the same background and information. Rob, how does the atlas of giving prepare the review and the forecast? And how does it differ from the blackbaud index and e-giving yusa to the methodology? The atlas of first of all, i think it’s important to talk about why the atlas of giving came into being i spent thirty years as a practitioner in the non-profit fund-raising world and i was always disappointed that there wasn’t something available that had utility for me and benchmarking our results on a timely basis or related to our fiscal year, and there was no forecast available, and as a result of of my experiences a practitioner, i felt like there were there were correlations between charitable giving and certain factors in the economy, demographics and events. And so what we did was put together a team of twenty five phd level researchers and analyst and we examined over seventy different potential variables to determine their correlation with giving that had been public publicly reported over the last forty two years, and what we found was indeed, charitable giving is directly correlated with certain factors in the economy, demographics and events, and in fact, so we’ve built algorithms. The first one we bill tony, was for national giving the national giving figure and that algorithm when we first created it. So it measures the things that correlate to charitable giving and their strength. Give us an example a few examples of what some of those variables are. They range anywhere from stock market values, real estate values, consumer. Confidence too. Believe it or not, auto parts sales heimans okay. Oh, interesting. All right. Eso all econometric reported numbers from government sources at various levels. Yes. Okay. And so what we what what we have is we now have developed an algorithm for each of nine sectors each of four sources, and one for each of all fifty states and the things that are correlated to giving in each sector or different. For example, e-giving toe education has a high degree of correlation to stock values. E-giving two churches has almost no relation to stock market values, so the formulas are different for each of the sectors and each of the source. Okay, and how does this differ from the blackbaud index and giving yusa? Well, you know, not being a complete expert on either of those two things. I do know that the blackbaud index is based largely on i think now almost four thousand organizations that are blackbaud customers that they try, they’re able to track their data. I would say that it’s interesting if you’re a blackbaud customer to be able to see how your results compare against other blackbaud customers. Thie other thing that i think the blackbaud index is invaluable for is its online giving index it’s the only one that is available currently and then in terms of giving yusa the atlas of giving would not exist today had it not been for giving yusa weii, we took forty two years of their data to build our algorithms, and they have served our sector well for more than four decades. And what we’ve done is take it to a different level with a new technology that enables us to measure the velocity and the trajectory of charitable giving in the us. Marshall let’s, let’s, start with you just you know, generally you heard rob’s comments about twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen what your thoughts? Oh, a lot of factors, i think it’s very interesting. Of course, corporate giving is off course stagnant, lots of in-kind giving it again, i think what’s what’s really fascinating and i think it’s it portends more of the same, perhaps in future years is the trajectory of online e-giving i think it’s ah, now a small percentage but it’s it’s. Fascinating to see that technology is not only changing the way we give the changing our organization’s changing what’s. Required to engage donors and kind of turning those traditional fund-raising models kind of on their year online is is still a small proportion of total giving, but growing right quite rapidly, right? And it’s, not just the online it’s it’s what all of that online is doing to the engagement, all the online engagement and the way we run our charities, and and what what’s required of us to get more engagement? More fund-raising can. How about you? What you thought about twenty, thirteen, twenty fourteen? What we heard? Well, i mean, i think it’s a very interesting model and, you know, from our experience the mohr, different perspectives on charitable guy e-giving there are the better there is a posse t i think of different choices, so i’m pleased to see this is an alternative way of looking at at things. The other thing that strikes me right away is the question of what are the metrics and how transparent are they relative to the others that are out there were very big on transparency and there’s attention, i think here because on the one hand, you don’t want to give away your secret sauce. It’s your business. Model, but on the other hand, it’s critically important, i think teo make certain that you disclosed as much as possible so that people can look at it and make those comparisons to know for certain that the twenty five phds and what not or indeed going down the right road. So that would be one question that that i would have in terms of how ah, consumer customer non-profit would have some certainty about the question of the metrics and their transparency. Robbie wanna wanna gironde? I would say, ken, that it’s a great observation when we’ve heard many times before. Bonem and you use the term secret sauce and obviously, is the the formulas or proprietary, but i would also say that we are we’re in search of a collaboration with a major research university with whom we could disclose all of our methodology and all of our all of our results and the database of information that we now have compiled of giving by sector source and state back to nineteen, sixty eight so we would welcome the opportunity of including a an academic collaborative partner. That’s great. Okay, cool. Can rob mentioned? Well, we’re all talking. About over four hundred billion dollars in twenty thirteen. And rob mentioned a bunch of economic factors, the level of unemployment and low inflation from the watchdog perspective. What what else might you think is going on? Well, i think it’s really important to remember on i think the urban institute does some great work in this area, that from what we see, there are three buckets of money that thie non-profits sector relies upon, and this bucket of money, which is private contributions, is the smallest of the three buckets, the overall amount of money that goes into the sectors over a trillion dollars a year. Some say it’s a cz muchas one point five trillion government is estimated to give as much, if not twice a cz much depending on what you statistics you look at and then the biggest bucket of all and it’s very ironic in this world of social entrepreneurship is earned income, and it has been the case for a long time, with in the case of universities and so forth that’s the biggest bucket. So i think one of the trends that we see when you look at the overall picture, which is important to bear in mind, especially for a lot of direct service human-centered sargon is ations that rely predominantly on government money is government is imploding in many ways and, you know, there’s cutbacks going on, so so that is a scary sign. So i hope that you’re right, that the terrible giving is indeed mark it lee increasing because it’s going to need if, if that’s the case, it could at least help to fill some of that void for some of those charities that fit the profile, i think i think that that’s where we i think that’s the biggest trend right now, i think, is that we’re in the middle of dealing with the after effects of the great recession. Some people have observed that typical typically non-profits they sort of they go over the cliff there’s a sort of a delay factor because you have certain contracts and so forth. And i think that there’s it’s still going on for the non-profits and i think that’s that’s a big challenge for them. So that’s, why i really hope that you’re right, andi. I hope that research corroborates that you’re right because it’s going to be more important than ever, i think marcia human services yeah took off considerably from two thousand twelve to two thousand thirteen. And i know you have some thoughts. Well, uh, i think again what we’re seeing i told you, michael closer marchenese cycles it? Yes. Okay, uh, i think what we’re seeing is, you know, the introduction of a lot of free agents. I often say in our curriculum that we are seeing not just the one percent coming to the table, but a huge influx of the ninety nine percent coming to the table, which along with them bring new voices new causes, new ways of doing things and not to stick two heavily toe online. Right now, i think that’s the big opportunity here, i think that’s the big engine of giving in a lot of thie sectors. And so when we talk about human services, when we talk about crisis e-giving so much of this, this new platforms where there’s experimentation being done online and with some new platforms and new mobile e-giving i think these sectors are becoming the beneficiaries of some of that. Oh, and some of these new sources of giving that are being tapped on line, i want to get to ah first question from twitter again, you can join the conversation on twitter, use the hashtag e-giving twenty thirteen and i’ll see your questions. The first one is from lynette singleton at a cg for non-profits and this is for rob. Rob can can non-profits use atlas of giving to help develop their marketing communication plans and if so, how? I would say marketing and communications plans? Yes, also they’re solicitation plans because it’s going to be really exciting for practitioners to now be able to use the information on these forecast to make important decisions about when they would like to send out a direct mail piece when they’d like what’s the best time to schedule a special event? What is the best time to launch a capital? A new capital campaign that that sort of information has never been available before? And it’s a little bit scary? I wouldn’t advocate that any organization take their entire direct mail file based on the forecast and shift it shift a mail drop from from one month tio two four months later, but to test and see that the the the validity of the forecast is indeed correct would, i think, is the most prudent and the best fiduciary responsibility that anyone in a charity can have. All right, another question from stephanie meyers, thank you, stephanie. She would like to hear more about how the internet is changing e-giving and predictions for online e-giving who wants to monisha jump into that? But first of all, what does your your report on your surveys? They predict more of the same with online giving that this will continue to increase? Yes, yes, what can you share from from the way we don’t? We don’t specifically track online giving what we observe is that online giving is growing and part of that is a cannibalization of traditional methods of giving and part of it is really growth because new donors are attracted to the online platform, right? I think the you know, the point that the technology is changing behaviors it’s not just the tools. Ah, one of the big significant things coming out of ah lot of this activity now is thie ability for so many non-profits and charities to show not just tell proof is ah huge not only in marketing activities but engagement. And when you could prove show a video of something, it gets shared twice more often when you can prove with numbers can metrics that online giving an online platforms allow you to have that you didn’t have before it’s easily morris, inexplicably, you can start to prove to donors on amore continuous basis how that money is being spent, where it’s going and deep those non-profits that air using that kind of proof in those metrics, in these numbers, in the context in which we were discussing today ah, doing far better, early research is coming in ah, it’s changing everything, teo also, i think the last point on this is the change is coming because splatter of engagement, the the approach that most non-profits take to engaging donors is being shifted dramatically by the influx of social media and technology. It’s not just a question of taking someone in and then moving them along up the scale of the ladder now it’s worth vortex approach, where people engage in different ways across the life cycle. Oh, and to have those metrics and that online and those technology platforms looks inning to the tips things and forging those patterns. Is going, teo, create those new opportunities for giving. And i have. I have a lot of guests on non-profit radio talking about online engagement, finding donors on potential donors, where they are not where you’d like to engage. Have them engage with you, right. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan. Wainwright were the hosts of the new thursday morning show, the music power hour. Eleven a. M gonna have fun shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. I’m the aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent fund-raising board relations, social media, my guests and i cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s want to to eastern talking alternative dot com. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants, and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our culture and consultant services, a guaranteed to lead toe, right, groat. For your business, call us at nine one seven eight three, three, four, eight, six zero foreign, no obligation. Free consultation checkout on the website of ww dot covenant seven dot com dahna. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Can how about, you know, charity navigator? And in terms of the big data, i mean the information that’s available, the what the metrics that non-profits can share just first, just to say, i think the use of the term vortex is a good one, because that one of the strengths of of the internet is, you know, there’s so much information and the possibility for information, but it’s also the opportunity for so much abuse and chaos and and and misinformation and that gets to the question of quality information and the non we think the evidence points to the fact that in the future, as more and more reliance comes to the internet, the charities that will distinguish themselves that are most likely to do the best are those that provide the most quality and meaningful information on what they’re doing, where it stands today. Unfortunately, still the vast majority of non-profits do not publicly report in a meaningful way on their results and their a variety of reasons. It’s understandable for a variety of reasons, is cultural issues, there’s, technology issues and then there’s just capacity issues. But i think that the pressure is increasingly on the charities to move in this direction and it’s best you know, they need to find the good advice and a good assistance to get from where we are today to that point. And, you know, charity navigator is beginning to evaluate are the charities that we look at based upon the quality of how they report the results publicly, and we are finding indeed, that there is a long, long road ahead of us, and but we would really encourage the charities to to bear this in mind that in the future, in a nutshell, you know, the most successful fund-raising nowadays is still very emotionally based and storytelling based. And you, khun, use streaming videos very effectively, and that will always be the case that that’s powerful give you that granular level of understanding of how a charity is helping some people in a meaningful way. But in the future it will be increasingly important that i think it’s even now the future ah, that you need to have a t the end of that story to peel away and say and look here’s data, meaningful data that shows that this story happens every day here is meaningful reporting on our results, it’s not just activities it’s, not just overhead. It’s, not just outputs. It’s meaningful information about riel changing people’s lives called social value outcomes, that sort of thing. We think that more and more that will be the case. And the challenge will be to get the funding from the right funders to be able to build a system, to be able to report that information and that’s the challenge for the charities, i think and that’s again. Why i hope that they’ll be more charitable giving from individuals and other private sources to make that happen. Lots of hope onda future is here. The future is today. Yes, now, ken berger, charity navigator. You heard it here on giving e-giving twenty thirteen. You’re not going to find this kind of stuff anywhere else that you’re you’re in the right place. And if your friends aren’t here, tell him to join because they’re still another twenty nine minutes left. Um, let’s, go to another question about donor advised funds. There was a question dahna advice. Funds did increased considerably from twenty twelve. Twenty thirteen. Rob we heard that. Um let me see what the precise question was. I think it was just about what the aah! How? Donorsearch robin, you want, i’ll be happy to take that well, the growth and donors advised funds, especially in the last three years, has been phenomenal bonem the growth in giving to those funds and the grants that air coming out of those funds to benefit all the non-profits and churches has been very, very significant. And one thing that has been noted by several of the donorsearch advise fund managers is that they’re seeing a trend of people who have small, private family foundation’s moving assets, converting their assets from a foundation into the donor advised funds because it’s ah it’s less expensive to administer and less trouble. And so we expect that that’s going to continue and there’s also a lot of choice because doner can can start a donor advice fund, they don’t have to make a e-giving decision about where their money is going today and ken’s point about accountability. Accountability is on the minds of lots of donors, especially individual donors, and so they have the opportunity then to say, make a gift to their advice fund in one particular tax year and then not make a decision about where the money is going to go. Until later. So it’s it’s a great benefit i want to jump in and say that on this topic of accountability to it’s it’s not just where is your money going and how is it being spent? But also, how are you moving the needle? Why, you know, what have you done for us lately is very much on the minds of donorsearch it’s, not just about dahna where is it going? Oh, and it’s not just the usual prerequisites for what’s required in a report, i think the increased use of multimedia, the increased use of marketing, the trust factor all of these things, we’re seeing very creative non-profits moved the needle on this quite significantly. Charity water is, you know, one of the examples that that has really picked up, at least in marketing and some of the backend metric. Teo recognizing that trust is a huge issue. And basically reconfiguring it’s digital face teo, talk about here’s the proof here’s, here’s, the money stream where’s the money. So to the extent that a lot of non-profit behavior could be influenced by what some of these numbers are showing, they’re listening is doing in early platforms and dahna forums i think that’s, that’s critical. This is such an important segment of dollars that’s going to be coming to the table, please. Just one had one thing on donorsearch vice funds there is now for free, a called a df widget that was developed by a number of the large doner advise funds it’s completely neutral in the sense that a variety of them are using it now, and any charity can get thea widget and put it on their website to ah, expedite getting mohr donor advised funds, donations you, khun goto, fidelity charitable, schwab. Ah, and i think they’re building a number of others on there. So that’s, a free resource that people could get access to on that donor advised funds. Question came from council non-profits council. Glad you with our school. Let’s. Ah, let’s. Talk a little about states. New york. I know from the report was the most charitable state. That may be very ironic to a lot of a lot of people watching, but i don’t it’s not ironic to me. Or probably any of us. Well, maybe maybe for rob. Rob is based in texas, so maybe ironic for him. But new york was the most charitable state. Marcia, you’re at the heimans center, based here in new york at new york city, new york university. What do you think? What you think is impacting new york’s, uh, generosity. It’s, it’s, diversity, it’s it’s. Ah, so trick demographics. Ah ah, latto public private initiatives. Say what you will about from mayor bloomberg. Especially right. Hey, set up a very strong infrastructure. Tio have public private partnerships. He has also is a philanthropist set of standards, a lot of different kinds of giving lots of experimentation in area that i think it kind of sets the culture for this as well. Also to ah, again, you see in flux. And i hate to keep pounding on this, but i cannot underscore the importance of this. Enough. Where you see tech centers ah experimenting in cause giving, setting up new platforms, creating some of that. What you mentioned is the multi trillion dollar economy around the nonprofit sector that’s also adding into so much of what’s happening here. S o we’ve got the business technology business of non-profits we’ve got the influx of new giving, and we’re also seeing very interesting trends with women and philanthropy. Ah, and how ah lot of spending that hadn’t been happening in that sector is starting to time on and why you were going to be having a women’s summit. Look at this she’s pitching for in one go ahead what’s the date goes well, we’ll share the whole thing the girl, the hashtag give it all april twenty eighth um ah, and we will be posting more on that but it’s women giving hashtag women e-giving april twenty eighth and then right it was also the stock market that also helped. Yeah, a minor detail, of course stock market that goes with that saying does help new york city considerably. We have a bunch of questions terrific let’s see robin from a way we can handle this one kind of quickly from non-profit diversity us how khun jobseekers use the atlas of giving can they wow that’s when i’ve never been asked before you hear it first on give e-giving twenty thirteen it’s remarkable the breakthroughs that are coming and giving twenty thirteen i don’t know. I don’t know why everyone’s not here. I see somebody in the building across that is not at their screen there, they’re having coffee, but they’re not the screen, so that person is not benefiting from the wealth of wisdom and questions that are coming and giving twenty thirteen i didn’t go. I have had a feeling that you should think about it. I could be more long winded if is necessary. So i would say the best thing is to look at the trend. For example, if i were a job seeker, i would be looking at i would be looking at jobs in the sectors which are the fastest growing. Currently that would be the human services sector, the environmental sector and the education sector, and i would, uh i’d be more cautious if i were seeking a job in the church of religious sector, and i know that that is tough, because if you’re committed to a life of faith professionally, you’re going to stay in it, but also, you know, the health sector underperformed the national average and it’s something to at least think about take a look at all right dahna another question. I saw chris tuttle asking more show the audience would like me to admonish you that they’re having trouble hearing you. Thankyou okay tend to gesture with your microphone. Oh yeah, so i don’t know. Hold them. Figure out something. There you go. Don’t okay, don’t gesture with your mic, chris asks. Do you think we’ll see a plateau in online giving increases anytime soon? Is that the possible toe perfect? Ah there’s always this cycle with technology that it’s overrated in the beginning, underrated for the long term and the various cycles and generations of backlash is stepping forward, stepping back, stepping forward, trying to figure out how to use it more effectively. And so on so forth, i don’t think we’re going to see a plat plateau of online giving, i think again, the factors are threefold one you have this ninety nine percent coming to the table two you’ve got a fresh supply of ninety nine percent coming to the table thanks to a lot of service learning programs in schools that are helping to expand the culture e-giving from early age is keeping it close. You’ve got a lot of new causes and new startups. Ah lot of silo comes silo crashing between the for-profit for-profit sector in the nonprofit sector in terms of social enterprise is a lot of that stuff gets counted there’s a lot of new activity coming from a lot of places and a lot of it is happening online just can online just just yet two things. One is just a case in point that online giving is just that it’s beginning point charity navigator is a website. We are a charity and all we do is a website. The majority of our giving still comes from people writing checks and sending them to us in the mail. And ah, the critical nature of continuing that form of fund-raising will not end any time soon. So that’s just a a and i think we all agree on that. But just as a cautionary note, i think the other thing is, you know, i i i think it’s really important for us to bear in mind this different types of organization. The one percent of charities in this country that in our estimate get eighty six percent of the funds each year, and the remaining ninety nine percent that get about fourteen percent from our analysis. But i would say it’s, not the ninety nine cents the ninety nine percent that are coming to the table. It’s, about ten to fifteen percent mb or the vast majority of charities in this country are fifty thousand or less, and their capacity on the internet may never be there. But don’t despair. Those males checks from your friends and neighbors will still be very important in this in this future of ours. It’s never in either it’s never an either or scenario. Here, it’s it’s. You know there’s always the cake is always the traditional forms of giving and that’s not going to go away. Nor should it. Of course not. But this cake has a thickening frosting on the top. And ah, it’s, very sweet. And, uh, it will continue to attract ah lot of people who, you know i’m sorry, but five dollars, ten dollars, twenty dollars. Pretty soon it’s real. Money and we’ve seen it over and over and over again in specific campaigns. The challenge will be, of course, tow. How to use these tools more strategically against mission. Just one push back on that. I mean, i agree in concept, but the game in the nonprofit sector has been and remains he or she who does the best marketing winds and that includes the internet and the charities that are most likely to do the miss best marketing are the ones who have the most money, which tends to be the one percent. I do think the internet is beginning to open up a window for some of the sort of mid sized savvy organizations that have some resource is for marketing. But still the basic dynamic of the big charity is winning, and the smaller charity’s not having that capacity losing is there. The hope is that there’s more of a window than their wass, and i agree with you there well in in a void of transparency. Unfortunately, sometimes the pretty package gets the most attention. But i disagree with you that it are increasingly we’re going to see the charities that are not just good. At pretty packages, but the charities that air good through the use of these tools in distinguishing their most influential supporters. Oh, and can use those strategically for not only comprehensive marketing strategies, but integrated fund-raising strategies that are going to be the winners that are going to lead also just real engagement mean a small local charity. The vast majority you said have budgets under annual budget is under fifty thousand dollars what’s the percentage you notes around it’s almost fifty percent of all chairs and have ah, i have a budget under fifty thousand dollars, right? But i mean, i’ve always thought this opens up an enormous opportunity online for, for real, for local engagement, if if you’re fund-raising on ly in your town, even not even all over your state exact, i think i think it creates enormous opportunities strategies that can do this smartly and expense. I want you to be right, and i mean, all of what we’re working on hate can burger no, no, seriously, i want i want that to be right. That’s what we’re working on is to try to get to that point where that is what? That that it’s no. Longer. Here she does. The best marketing winds. It’s. He the charity that has the best results and really helps the most people wins, is where what we’re talking about here. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’ll give you an analogy. I just saw this last night on new york tv ah full page ad for radio shack in nineteen ninety one and every item listed on the page a camcorder ah, a cellular phone, a computer, every item listed on the page, if bought separately, would run into the thousands of dollars today in two thousand fourteen, we have every capability of every device listed in nineteen, ninety one in our smartphone, and we treyz he was right networked community is maturing to the point where using those smartphones and connecting people in real time is having a huge impact. We see it every day on small do you have a production studio in your pocket? Look at yelp and distribution, production and distribution. Look at yelp. Oh, and increasingly we’re seeing yelps for non-profits i mean, the point of this is that the locus of power is increasingly thanks to some of this technology moving outside the traditional organizations and so there’s a lot of demand, new demand for accountability that needs to be heard. And, you know, we’ve seen this everything from the common controversy to others, politics aside, the way these things need to be handled is with more engagement from the start, in fact, your donor’s, certain demographic donors. But i’ll argue most donors want to see more accountability, and they want to know that there are answers on the other on the other end and that you couldn’t take less than a day to answer an email. Let’s, go back to some questions, kenny siegler, maybe you khun deal with this one kind of quickly, uh asks, is there any data in the report regarding generational giving? Are you tracking generational giving? We’re not, or or or by gender? Well, we have no gender or age related e-giving information, okay. J angeletti from the angeletti group, do you think the next generation of donors is reaching its prime? And can we start to expect impactful gif ts from them? Yes, he’s referring teo, millennials reaching there, you know, i would say i would say one of the things that you and i can’t define this as a trend, but just an observation is that, and it relates to the to the last questions that we were talking about in terms of engagement and online. Is that the smaller niche? More? Nimble organizations that make good use of technology, i think, have an advantage with the next generation of donors, and they’re there there by nature mohr, accountable and transparent and that’s what the next generation of donor is looking for so much of engagement is, is you think of tom sawyer and non-profits khun b the tom sawyer and get everybody else to paint the fence in terms of leveraging their ask in terms of leveraging volunteer engagement. This is an amplification technology. This is also listening technology, how critical it is to now be ableto listen by setting up these platforms to what donors have to say. So there are this donor relationship management it’s no accident that non-profits are hiring data analysts of their own or getting into you talk about pretty packages info graphic ex things like this to more succinctly say what they’re about distinguished in a tweet oppcoll length of time that’s so what? Why this? Why now? Why us? So what? You know again i think that the technology can be good used for good or ill and the packaging can be meaningful and the packaging khun b junk and the challenges for people to be able to discern the difference and that’s why, i think increasingly groups like charity navigator and others are going to be in a critical role to try to discern what is quality and meaningful information. And what is just pretty packaging of claiming accountability when there isn’t any. So that’s again, why we, you know, i totally agree that we want to get to the right place here, but we need to keep our eyes wide open of the challenges that we’re going to face and those charities out there that aspired to do the right thing you will have. I think you know that challenge of the good and the bad information, and we urge you to try to find the role models out there like charity water, you know, and others that are really on the cutting edge of of trying to promote themselves with that meaningful information. Marshal. Let me askyou charity water. It is mentioned often. Can you name some others? I’m kind of putting you on the spot or core can some others that you think are doing online engagement particularly well. Owe the american red cross the national wildlife federation? Um, traditional organizations born digital organizations as well the iraq and afghanistan veterans of america association setting up a private social network to basically convene vets who have come home and let me ask you same, you know, it’s it’s funny, because i think that what we’re fine, what we’re finding is even the early adopters of really measuring results the most they often are sort of these midsized organizations, they’re not the really large ones and they’re online presence and they’re promoting themselves were so we’re trying to say to them brag show off, you should be proud, and they’re still in the early stages of developing their online presence. So nurse family partnership, smaller groups like roca in boston, harlem, children’s zone, there’s they still have a ways to go even those those that have the most to share really need to get more savvy about how they’re presenting themselves online, and i think we talked about a lot of different things here. We’re talking about engagement of donors, traditional donors and new ones for talking about the quality data like december and analyzed. We’re also talking about outreach and marketing when we all of those to see what’s possible, i can give you a really example. We were recently in conversation with anat, a large, very large, a national organization that is comprised of nine hundred different organizations. They all have. They do not have a single fiscal year. They don’t share a single fiscal year. They don’t share a single database, so their ability to do any amount of planning at an umbrella level is almost non existent. What we hear so often, eh? I edited contribute magazine for many years. And we would hear this. And i know you look into this now so passionately. You know, this lack of standardisation this lack of you know this this proliferation of apples and oranges here. What are we measuring? What? Where is the standard? How much can we really forecast? How much can we really demand in terms of accountability? And how much can we really compare who’s doing one thing well or best? Ah, if there is very little transparency very little that our government demands in terms of disclosure and very few common standard. And i know there’s a lot of movement in the field to get to some kind of common. Set of metrics on and i applaud those efforts, but we’re not there yet, and i’d be interested to hear what you have to say. And then where is this going to go? How close are we getting any closer to having some kind of riel in depths analytical cloud here? You know, we recently signed a letter called the overhead myth letter, and it says a website overhead myth dot com, which basically was a letter to the donors of america that said, you know, overhead should not be the primary focus on the primary focus should be results, but at the same time they’re neat way all think there needs to be a second letter to the non-profits of america that says, hey, we’ve sort of given you some bit of ah wiggle room on overhead, but now the donors have know where to look for the thing we say is most important for them to look for, which is the results and so that that’s why i think the mo mentum and the challenge of this is critical, we’re going to continue to be involved in whatever way we can with all the groups that are working. On this, to try toe dr standards to set standards, to come to consensus on standards for how we go about measuring that’s a great resource called perform well, that’s trying to help with that, for example, and so i rich people to check that out, but we’re still in the early stages of this road and, ah, you know, we really need for there to be more early adopters that really understand that it’s not about the watchdogs, it’s, not about anybody, but we want to meet our mission in the most powerful way, the most effective way we can to help the most people we can. And ultimately maybe you’re not going to see it today, but we believe all the evidence is pointing toward more and more those charities, those non-profits that go down this road ultimately are going to be the most successful fund-raising wise as well as helping people wise. So it’s a win win on every level level if we get there and can i’d like people to know that you were on my show on non-profit radio, along with the other two co signers talking about first time the three of us sat down and been interviewed at the same time around what led to the overhead myth letter and ah, what you think is coming from it. So that show was think that was october or november of last year, i think was october okay and and actually have been to convene ings just this last week. So there’s more and more of a desire amongst some of the leadership groups in the sector to try to push this forward and continue to continue that conversation. And a lot of charities have told us that they’ve been very effectively able to use that letter to educate donors. Tio the what we consider to be the other factors that are equally, if not more important than that. But but non-profit media was first yes, i think yes to first. Quint. Convening that’s. Right. That’s, right. Subsequent is the controlling i promised to share the mic with marcia. I feel like i got emasculated, but but yours was not working so well. So we’re going to share her. We’re going to we’re going to share. I told you i hit ken berger. See, i knew there was a reason i knew was coming. Um and we just have a couple of minutes left. Let’s. See, uh, gene takagi is asking, has giving two non don’t advised. Fundez public charities, uh, jeanne, the lawyer, i’ii organizations that provide direct charitable goods and services grown. Yeah, sure, yeah, absolutely no question about it. Okay, there’s. Another question about donor advised funds. I just recovered that okay? Foundation giving foundation giving grew considerably. Rob wanted just remind us what the foundation giving numbers were condition growth. Do you remember? I don’t remember, okay, but it grew considerably from two thousand twelve to two thousand thirteen was the best performing sector. Okay, our source. Excuse me, sore sore source of giving and there’s a reason for that with the tremendous gains in the stock market and now with increasing real estate values, lots of the assets of foundations air held in the those two places and the way that reporting happens is i think most people are aware of the fact that the foundations are required to give away five percent of their assets each year. Well, it’s not necessarily the assets that are valued in the current year it’s the assets in the previous year and partly in the current year, depending on on when their fiscal year is and when they do, they’re reporting. So there is a lag between the stock market values and what foundation giving is going to that means, twenty fourteen has enormous promise for for charities seeking foundation support if i was twenty thirteen asset values. Increased considerably. Absolutely. If i were still a practitioner and planning my fund-raising strategy for two thousand fourteen, i would be shifting. Resource is into foundation grantmaking opportunities. Marshall, you want to come in, i’ll going to be still the mic. You won’t say anything about the foundation giving up attorneys there. I think we’re also seeing a lot of healthy it’s continuing. Sometimes call some of the major foundations kind of the you know, of course, the gates foundation is the wal mart foundations. I love the influence of having discipline, uh, the non-profit sector. So we’re not seeing a different we still have twenty seven different breast cancer charities in new york. Uh, yeah, you can, because, yeah, so so you know, one of the things that were also seeing is that, again, this gets back to the overhead issue, that there are more and more foundations that are becoming educated to the fact that if they give a charity eight percent overhead, just the infrastructure cost to manage that grant, let alone their operations, is inadequate. And as these foundations are increasingly requiring, reporting on results and not giving what is probably more resource is required infrastructure wise build a performance management system in the charity um but there is encouraging signs that at least some cherry some foundations are beginning to move in that direction of reducing their caps on overhead to the same degree, providing mohr assistance with building performance management so you can measure result but it’s also important that charity’s become their own advocates to educate. And encourage, they’re found the foundation supporters to help them in this regard, and some even bring the overhead letter with them. But it’s really going to be more and more important for the foundation community to step up and to also be early adopters to help the charities to become more focused on their results. Marshall, i’m going to give you the last question, but we only have a couple minutes left. Andi need to wrap up too. So this comes from colorado gives i’d love to understand where the statistics for online giving are coming from and where is the growth? So again, we suffer from a lack of standardization, but they’re in ten has some great statistics non-profits technology network, we have statistics in some research that gnu is starting to do in this area. People find that they will soon. Ah, and we also have some ah, a collective looking at tech soup and other places where these implementations, not to mention, you know, consulting firms and black bods, but you blackbaud all of that. So it’s it’s consistently these results nobody’s arguing with each other in terms of the trajectory nor the nor the growth the pace of the growth is a little arguable, but everybody ah, i haven’t heard anybody say it’s not going to be growing significantly. All right, we’re going to aa. We need to wrap up. My weekly podcast is tony martignetti non-profit radio there’s. Information about it at tony martignetti dot com. If you are viewing the the stream from tony martignetti dot com right below the viewing window there’s on at sign and you can click that and get weekly newsletter alerts. Aboutthe show email, email alerts about the show, thanks to very much thanks to my co host robb mitchell, and the atlas of giving is a real pleasure to do this. Thank you, tony it’s. Been it’s been great. And, of course, we want to again thank mutual america for this beautiful space on the thirty fourth floor at aa on park avenue and marshes to panic. Ken berger, thank you very much for sharing wisdom and thank you for being with us for giving twenty thirteen. The ring didn’t think dick tooting getting dink dink dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get a drink. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level? And it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three backs to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people! Hi, i’m ostomel role and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour eleven a m we’re gonna have fun shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a m on talking alternative dot com you’re listening to talking alt-right network at www. Dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Dahna