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[00:00:42.37] spk_2:
welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC. That’s the 2020 non profit Technology Conference. Of course, the conference had to be canceled, but we are persevering. Virtually Vie Zoom sponsored a 20 NTC by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant her mountain for a free 60 day trial. My guest now are Lorraine Gordon and Katherine Hide. Lorraine is principal at lead with heart, and Catherine is senior director of digital engagement at Enterprise Community Partners. The Rain and Catherine. Welcome to our coverage of 20 ntc.

[00:01:00.90] spk_3:
Thank you Were thrilled to be here.

[00:01:04.67] spk_5:
I’m

[00:01:04.91] spk_2:
very glad it worked out. And I’m glad to know that each of you is well and safe on in Maryland around the Baltimore area.

[00:01:12.84] spk_5:
Um,

[00:01:14.24] spk_6:
let’s get started with you,

[00:01:27.70] spk_2:
Lorraine. What? You’re you’re NTC topic is this situation calls for leadership. Uh, what What do I do now? Yeah. Now? Yeah. Now what do I do? Um what What is it that ah, the two of you want to bring to the leadership conversation?

[00:01:33.66] spk_6:
Well, when we plan to present at the conference it was What do you

[00:01:38.65] spk_0:
do when you’re in a situation when you haven’t upset, you have a disruption. You have something that happens whether it’s trust or a project is jeopardized or

[00:01:49.87] spk_6:
something where you need to defuse,

[00:01:51.74] spk_0:
um, the tension or the upset. Um, and

[00:02:17.04] spk_6:
this is a prime one we’ve got at the Corona virus way. Could have never planned for this, right, Catherine? No. Our recession is about how do you bring your heart and curiosity to self a team challenge? You know how you show up in that? What kind of insights you bring? Um, so we’re gonna talk about that. And cancer is

[00:02:18.34] spk_0:
gonna share a little bit about the learning objectives of what we hope to accomplish in that.

[00:02:23.74] spk_2:
Okay. You wanna You wanna state the objectives, Catherine, before we get it?

[00:02:27.28] spk_3:
Sure. I would be happy to heart

[00:02:29.62] spk_2:
and curiosity before we get there.

[00:02:52.08] spk_3:
Yes, absolutely. So we had three learning objectives here. One is to build your leadership awareness. That is just your understanding of off. What are the components of leadership and how do you bring them? Forward and ah, hint. It’s got a lot to do with heart and curiosity. So the other the 2nd 1 is to reflect on the barriers to high performance, what’s getting in the way when the when the team isn’t functioning. And one of the things we wanna underscores that leadership is something that could be done by anybody. At any level. Any member of the team can step up and take help, present a healthier way for the team dynamic to move forward. And

[00:03:15.92] spk_4:
then we’re gonna help

[00:03:21.14] spk_3:
you lead leverage, some tools and approaches that would, um, help defuse some of the conflict that might arise. And certainly some of the tensions that teams have, especially when they’re working remotely and they don’t have each other to bounce off of in person.

[00:03:42.33] spk_2:
Okay, let’s stay with you. And, uh, heart and curiosity are not words that are typically associated with leadership. But you’re you’re opening things up. So, uh, star expand our thinking. What, what? What’s the role of heart and curiosity and leadership?

[00:04:27.84] spk_3:
Well, if any of you are familiar with Renee Brown, she speaks about vulnerability and how important that is to leadership. And that is your heart. Bringing your yourself your whole self, allowing your team to bring their whole self, and we’ll talk more about this later. But the idea of how to listen with compassion and how to speak with clarity and the curiosity comes from this approach that we don’t have all the answers. We don’t know all the background. So coming at this coming at any situation, whether it’s conflict, attention or otherwise with your curiosity, is a way to break through some of the barriers.

[00:04:31.41] spk_2:
Okay, vulnerability is, uh, it’s a good adjective.

[00:04:35.12] spk_5:
I like I I admire

[00:05:35.57] spk_2:
people who clearly are are vulnerable. Um, I think a good example of that in leadership is Amy Sample Wards. You know that I’m actually I’m getting a little teary eyed just thinking about it, because she’s tearful in the video that she made you confined in it and 10 dot org’s and go to the fall of the 20 NTC Conference links. You’ll see the cancellation video that where she announced the cancellation and, uh, was made even made, and 10 and 10 vulnerable by saying this is 62%. This conference is 62% of our revenue, and we’re not only losing the revenue from the from the registrations, but we have incurred enormous penalties for the broken contracts with food vendors and signed vendors and all kinds of So she was not only vulnerable on a personal level, but on her organizational level two. And you know, you see her and you see in that video wiping tears at least once, maybe twice. Um, I just thought that that was a great example of what it occurred to me when you said the word vulnerable. I absolutely want that video there

[00:06:04.70] spk_3:
was There was one conference I was at. I mean, Amy is an excellent example of a vulnerable leader and a leader who comes with curiosity and and heart. I remember there was one conference where you could actually get a button that said I made a me cry because she wants to hear your story and she’s there with you in such a re away. So it’s an excellent example. Tony

[00:06:12.47] spk_2:
that arose out at a conference.

[00:06:16.52] spk_3:
They were buttons for your bling. You know, there

[00:06:18.98] spk_4:
was a button there that said I made a me crow. Okay, what do you want

[00:06:22.85] spk_0:
to add? Please, Tonto. But, um um, vulnerability is like a key competency for leaders. It makesem humane. It creates a bridge of trust it says, I’m in this with you. Um, it’s where leaders have an opportunity to really dig deep when it comes to emotional intelligence, which so many studies have been shown to demonstrate that leaders who have strong Q our leaders who are far more productive on all kinds of levels, generating revenue, bringing teams together, creating wonderful

[00:07:00.12] spk_6:
cultures. Um, but vulnerability could be a little scary. It’s scary if you are not vulnerable personally and

[00:07:07.64] spk_0:
your personal relationships. It’s hard to do that at work, you know, because there’s so much we we cover up, and essentially, what we’re covering up is our heart. But that’s the very thing we want. Thio sort of open up

[00:07:19.29] spk_6:
a bit and connect with others, but we all have it. We all have a heart, and we’re all looking for an opportunity to connect. And it’s a powerful tool

[00:07:27.93] spk_0:
being able to lead with heart when you can do that. So

[00:07:32.07] spk_6:
this is a situation that certainly calls for it right now because we’re vulnerable on so many levels of safety and health and well being.

[00:07:41.42] spk_0:
And we were thinking about our families, our communities, our neighbors, our workplaces. So

[00:07:47.69] spk_6:
whether we want to be vulnerable

[00:07:49.32] spk_0:
were at least inching toward that space. Whether we want to or not. You know, I think

[00:07:55.42] spk_2:
there’s so much thinking that, uh, misplaced that that showing vulnerability is a sign of weakness.

[00:08:03.32] spk_4:
I think it’s just the opposite. I think

[00:08:05.78] spk_2:
someone who’s vulnerable is is showing, exuding confidence and strength, actually, that they can open themselves up that way. I

[00:08:13.80] spk_4:
think it’s

[00:08:16.13] spk_2:
a sign of enormous. It’s confidence and strength. Yeah, yeah,

[00:08:18.08] spk_6:
you’re right, you’re right. And as a leader, I have had my best

[00:08:57.72] spk_0:
relationships with leaders who have been vulnerable with me, and when that has happened, I give them my very best. I give them so much more than I would, a leader who really is just trying to just tap whatever you know, not tapping my full self. And so as a leader, I’ve I’ve aimed to do that to, to really bring my full self in my vulnerability and the sense of trust, which is one of things we’re gonna talk about trust being a real bedrock in all of this trust and vulnerability. When you’re in a situation of disruption, so it changes, it changes us. It changes the people around us. It

[00:09:01.33] spk_6:
can actually change the whole vibe in a room. As a facilitator, I’ve seen it happen. I call it sort of dropping the water line when somebody is vulnerable and they drop that water line, you can feel

[00:09:14.33] spk_0:
the shift inside the room and it’s palpable. So

[00:09:17.25] spk_6:
it’s a powerful tool.

[00:09:18.24] spk_0:
And I Catherine, I would just invite leaders to go there.

[00:09:21.59] spk_3:
Yeah, yeah, and it breeds vulnerability. If you can bring your whole self as a leader, it allows your team to bring their whole cells, and it generates an incredible amount of loyalty and willingness to go above and beyond.

[00:10:34.05] spk_2:
Yeah, I’m going to recommend someone to you and and a book that I just I interviewed him and I do so many shows. I can’t remember if if this show has gone live yet, but his name is Jamie Bursts, but it’s spelt like hearse with a B. So Jamie B E A R S e. He’s the CEO of zero, the end of prostate cancer on they have an organizational culture there, Which is which is what his, um Oh, you know, I don’t He hasn’t written a book on this. It’s just No, I’m sorry. I interview a lot of authors to. He hasn’t written a book on organizational culture, but the culture that he’s created at at zero, which is a pretty large organization, 25 or 30 employees or something like that is exactly in line with what you’re describing. You’ll you’ll be interested in. I regrettably, the only resource I know where he talked about organizational culture is my show, so but I’m

[00:10:46.25] spk_4:
not trying to get more people. Listen t o. And he has,

[00:11:19.64] spk_2:
um, they show up with, um hh bedrocks of the culture. HHS Um, humility, Is it humility? Hunger? Yes. Not honestly. They’re honest people, but it’s humility, hunger, and I can’t run with the esses. I don’t want to miss quarter, but HHS bedrock of And they have some medical, um, vulnerability in trust so that they

[00:11:20.16] spk_4:
trust each

[00:11:56.74] spk_2:
other to be vulnerable. They open up their meetings with they spend five minutes going around the room, putting a spotlight on someone else who exhibited either HHS. This humiliation is ability, hunger and smarts, man. Shoot. But you put the spotlight on someone else, you go following someone else. Um, thinking like, um silence is dissent. When the leader says, When the leader, whoever’s leaving that meeting says, you know, are we ready to go on? Everyone has to affirmatively Yes, yes, and one who’s quiet then that’s assumed to be descent. And they’re asked, Are you ready? Or do you have an objection? You know, So they want everyone affirmatively agreeing to move to the next topic or think or things like that. I think that. Anyway, um, we’re here to learn from you, but you’ll be in

[00:12:17.91] spk_0:
No, that’s good. That’s a great story. Is the

[00:12:33.39] spk_2:
culture at zero? Um, and a lot of what you’re saying is reminding me about my conversation with Jamie Bursts. Um what about What about trust? Lorraine? You want you want some more about that film?

[00:14:34.14] spk_0:
Yes, absolutely. So trust is the bedrock of all teams. And if if you’ve read anything around the five dysfunctions of a team, um, Lindsey Onis book, he talks about trust. Everybody has a different lens of trust, but he sort of focus is on for the purpose of shared language. He focuses on trust being in the areas of reliability, acceptance, openness, sinking crew. It’s, um so trust is a key thing of being able to create that within teens and being able to talk about what’s my islands of trust? Is it that you that you are reliable, You deliver what you say you’re gonna deliver? You set up regular zoom meetings In this disruption, you make yourself accessible. Somebody else may have the lens of trust around acceptance. You know, you’re accepting me in this disruption in this pandemic. You’re accepting my circumstances of home at home and all it is that I need to juggle kids, elder care, all those kinds of things. So everybody has a different lens, but it all sort of bedrocks under trust. And we all have people in our lives who we can kind of sort of think about when we think of the word trust who naturally comes to mind when we’re in workshop. Catherine and I typically will say, Close your eyes and think of somebody who you when we say trust somebody who comes to mind in it and it could be a leader could be a family member could be a friend, but almost undoubtedly acceptance, reliability, openness, not so much congruence. Tuscan grew. It’s really kind of wraps up all three, but those usually come to mind, and then we really just have a conversation about how do you build trust? How is trust? Quickly broken. Um, you know, are you somebody who trust people initially, when you meet them, where or do you have them earn trust? You know, So it’s a really good conversation, um, around how to do that during this time. So part of building trust for teens right now would be, you know, create a

[00:14:42.69] spk_6:
having a conversation

[00:15:26.34] spk_0:
about what do you need? What is it that you need? Um, how can I support you? Those air all embedded in trust? Um, one of things I often say is, what should I stop doing? Start doing, continue doing, um, it’s leaning in and saying, You know, I want a trusting relationship here, And how do we build that? Because trust is something you built. It’s like it’s like any investment. The more you invest in put trust moments, trust exchanges, sort of in the trust kit or whatever the more you can tap it. And if I’ve got a long term relationship with Katherine of 20 years, and she does one thing that appears to break trust. I’m gonna continue that relationship because she has such a deeper investment with me versus somebody new who really hasn’t taken the time to invest. So

[00:15:36.52] spk_6:
this is a time for

[00:15:40.78] spk_0:
teams to really build trust and, um, create that foundation and be reliable as much as you can in being accessible during this pandemic and being available, answering questions, creating connection, being accepting of people, circumstances at home, A lot of those kinds of things.

[00:16:02.59] spk_2:
And, of course, all this that we’re saying applies in leadership generally and generally. Certainly we’re in the midst of this spandex, like, makes sense to grounded in our current reality, but it applies way beyond absolutely this situation. Katherine earlier you talked about you mentioned. Listen with compassion. Could you flush that out, please? I love that.

[00:16:17.51] spk_3:
Yeah, I would. I would. I would love to do if you will allow us a little role. Play with Lorraine around the levels of Listen,

[00:16:26.60] spk_4:
you have You obviously have something planned. How could I Way

[00:17:44.88] spk_3:
would love to do this. There’s ah, with some acknowledgement you can have here. There are three levels of listening and the first level. I like to say it’s all about me. That’s when I’m listening to you and I’m busy understanding its impact on me. Whatever you’re saying, the second level of listening, It’s all about you. I’m listening to understand the impact and the, uh, inference and the effect of what you’re saying on the story you’re telling has on you. The third level is called Global Listening, and it’s when we’re cut it. It’s beyond you and me. And it’s the kind of listening that ah comedian has to do to read the audience. There’s a sense of the energy in the room. It’s like beyond the human individual. So Lorraine and I was one of the things to keep in mind is, you know, people want to give a bad rap to level one listening, but it’s a really important thing. If you’re giving me an assignment, I need to be thinking, Can I do it? Do I have the time? What is my capacity? I have to be thinking about its impact on me specifically, But if you are telling me something that’s important to you and you’re expressing a piece of yourself, I need to be listening in level two listening. I need to make sure I’m focused on you and the impact that what you’re saying in your storytelling has. And that’s where the listening with compassion comes through on Lorraine. And I would like to do a little role play where we show you what it feels like to listen at level one and then tow. Listen it level two.

[00:18:03.98] spk_2:
Absolutely. Katherine can just make a suggestion. Move your move, Your mouthpiece? A little. A little below. Just a little. Blow him out. Yeah, that’s good. OK, is some of the some of the constants we say, like, uh, you know, and it breaks up just a little bit. I think it’ll heal less. You’ll aspirated less air it right into the right into the microphone. But But we can still we can still hear you. Okay. Please.

[00:18:27.64] spk_3:
Okay. So Lorraine is gonna tell me a story. What do you want to tell? And I’ll start with level one listening when it’s all about me. What she’s saying,

[00:18:37.25] spk_6:
Katherine, guess what? Last year, I want a fabulous trip to Israel. It was something I’ve been wanting to do for so long. Less June and It was incredible.

[00:18:47.86] spk_3:
Meal is always fascinated. May it’s hot. I’m so jealous that you could go.

[00:18:54.32] spk_6:
Yeah, Yeah. I went with a group from my church, and it was an amazing experience and did this whole holy tour. And there were all these other church proves

[00:19:04.26] spk_4:
there that would

[00:19:05.40] spk_3:
have been so cool if I had been there because, you know, that means so much to me to to be part of community like that.

[00:19:13.45] spk_6:
Yeah, I felt like I was in community, Katherine. And you know, so many historical sides and, uh, the upper room And, you know, going to the temples and asana was it was incredible to see

[00:19:28.90] spk_4:
you don’t even know what

[00:19:29.66] spk_3:
half of those things are that you’re talking about.

[00:19:32.66] spk_2:
Okay, We get

[00:19:33.59] spk_4:
way, we’re gonna fly with Catherine. That was

[00:19:37.50] spk_2:
good. You know what you tried? You tried thio. Turn it. I wish I could have been part of that community, like, you know, like using the word community makes you a better listener.

[00:19:48.13] spk_4:
You know, said community. You know, I said hard. You know what e? I said the words. So I guess I’m a level to this here. I

[00:19:58.00] spk_2:
like that. there’s a little twist.

[00:19:59.16] spk_4:
I wish I could have

[00:20:03.08] spk_2:
been part of your new didn’t say your community. Okay, I’m sorry. Okay, We got it. Go ahead, please.

[00:20:06.33] spk_3:
So Lorraine’s going to start the story again, and I’ll give level two listening.

[00:20:09.55] spk_6:
Okay. Katherine, last year I went on this fabulous trip to Israel, and it was amazing last June, and it was on my bucket list, something I had wanted to do,

[00:20:18.65] spk_0:
and it really wasjust quite a spiritual experience for me.

[00:20:23.42] spk_3:
Well, I can I could just see what it meant to you in your face. You light up when you talk about it.

[00:20:29.24] spk_6:
Yeah. Yeah. I saw holy sites that I had read about for years. And just to be in these places, garden of Vicinity and all these specials places was pretty incredible. Being in better ham and a shepherd’s field. It was

[00:20:47.04] spk_4:
it was quite

[00:20:47.54] spk_6:
touching. At times. I just I had to pinch

[00:20:50.07] spk_0:
myself and realized Am I really here?

[00:20:52.72] spk_3:
Absolutely. I can hear how it enriched you. Just in your voice.

[00:20:57.31] spk_6:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for showing interest,

[00:21:00.04] spk_0:
Katherine. I really appreciate that. Just your you’re leaning in just makes me almost relive the experience again. So that’s great.

[00:21:08.90] spk_3:
Okay,

[00:21:09.74] spk_2:
excellent. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:16.02] spk_4:
Short little example. Interest is clear. Yeah, sometimes say that

[00:21:16.89] spk_2:
to people, you know, I can tell. I can tell how your voice, you know, I was that I could

[00:21:21.12] spk_4:
tell in your voice, or I could see how your face

[00:21:23.19] spk_2:
lights up when I’m having lunch with someone.

[00:21:25.09] spk_4:
I can tell how you’re how animated you get. Well, yeah, we’re bored with the other

[00:21:55.48] spk_2:
percent of our conversation, but because I tend to do that, I put a lot of people off. That’s why I e if I don’t do it virtual, you know, And a lot of times I don’t even do the video. No, but no. But you can see animation. You can see people’s eyes light up our arms start to move their hand. You know, you can see Ah, smile. Come in their face. Absolutely. It’s There are things we talk about that brighten us instantly. And yeah, that’s being

[00:22:01.31] spk_4:
the good skills

[00:22:10.39] spk_2:
being very graphic. Just perfect to recognize. Okay. You want to take us to a level. Did you

[00:22:14.20] spk_4:
know I’m not tonight? Were you three? But I do want t about I do stand

[00:22:23.68] spk_2:
up comedy. I’ll tell you about little when that really sucks when nobody’s laughing at your jokes. Um, actually, it doesn’t happen too often, but, uh, you get a sense of a room because you use that example of of a state of comic leading the room. Um, you know, when it’s not going well, um, you know, when a certain type of joke didn’t doesn’t do well, don’t do more of those, you know, Don’t try to push it. Maybe just that one. I’ll try another one, just like it Now, you know, time to move on, tell a story about seventh grade. You know, Tele Tele vulnerability story or something. And no. Yeah,

[00:23:06.84] spk_3:
but I want to say the reason that we talk about this and we spend time on it is because if you don’t know your options when you’re listening, you can’t use them intentionally. Right? So there are times when you need to be listening on level one, and there are times when you should be listening on level two, and we encourage you to be aware of your conversations to be sensitive to that. And this is even true in your home with your family, right?

[00:23:21.60] spk_4:
E was just

[00:23:35.44] spk_6:
gonna add. So both Katherine I our leadership coaches and when we’re coaching a client, we really need to hone into level three to level three is really looking at not just a smile, not just

[00:23:41.80] spk_0:
the energy, but it really is going in that somatic vein of where you’re really sensing. The whole body’s been sensing the energy behind a conversation, And you could

[00:23:48.40] spk_6:
sense when somebody is not saying something

[00:23:51.52] spk_0:
and when there may be shielding or whatever. But it’s deeper listening room. We as coaches have to really, really be centered and grounded in our listening because it really is full body listening to something. Intuition is a piece of you. And tradition is a big piece. You

[00:24:07.70] spk_2:
Very good. Um, all right, we still have a couple minutes left. Um, you had some tools and approaches. Who wants the

[00:24:16.37] spk_6:
mind? Catherine, If I mentioned a few things go for I had. So when I was thinking about this interview, I thought about

[00:24:22.04] spk_0:
some things, um, of the people and leaders, uh, and team members could do, and I

[00:24:30.04] spk_6:
had a few things here. Refraining, You know, here’s an opportunity

[00:24:36.74] spk_0:
to rethink how to frame this disruption, seeing it as an opportunity to recreate, to co create together and to give birth to two to some new things. So refrain ballots to leaders. Try not to overload your team with too many tasker projects, because remember there juggling their own family. Childcare, self care. They’re juggling anxiety, depression. You’re adjusting to a new normal balance. Number three. Be creative. It’s an opportunity to think out of the box something new again.

[00:25:03.31] spk_6:
This is all sort of glass is half full

[00:25:19.32] spk_0:
versus half empty kind of mindset. Fourth servant leadership, which requires just what we were just talking about listening, accepting being president, being adaptable and leading with head and heart heart being important, flexibility, flexibility with the deadline’s focus on the big picture and not bet just current deadline that that is required. So that will cause a leader us to expand our comfort zone a little bit. So they were not so tight. They like, I want that deadline and just be done right now

[00:25:35.13] spk_6:
and then. The last one is so

[00:25:50.27] spk_0:
important in a time like this, but it’s so important when there is no pandemic and it means the world to people based on my years of being a leader in organization. And that is saying thanks. Say thanks. It makes a difference. It shows you care. Um um you could never say it too often on thank the team for navigating this this new unknown, uh, territory. Thank them for the completion of a project. Thank them for just the smallest of the biggest things. And it’ll go a long way, and it will increase engagement. It will shift a culture, and it could make a big difference. So

[00:26:14.72] spk_6:
and thanks to you, tony, for yes thing.

[00:26:19.03] spk_2:
Is that the end that you had planned or Katherine Anything you want. Oh, you

[00:26:22.62] spk_3:
know, I think she summed it up beautifully. Okay, Lead with your heart and curiosity.

[00:27:04.74] spk_2:
Well, then, thanks to thanks to each of you A said, I’m glad you’re well and safe. And thank you for sharing. Thank you very, very much. Um, marine core principle of lead with heart, with great a company name. Obviously. Basic leave. Um, and Katherine Hyde’s senior director of digital engagement at Enterprise Community Partners. And thank you for being with 20 ntc non profit tech. Well, this is non profit radio. What I need to say is, thank you. Im profit. Radio coverage of 20 NTC, um, were sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software, which I’m grateful for. Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. Thanks so much for being with us.

[00:27:18.14] spk_3:
Thank you. Turn. Thank you. My pleasure.